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Speaker 1: What is up, Fellasiko's I am Dan Valley once again

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joined by mister Mort Jensen of the NBA podcast, fame

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of Yahoo Sports, fame of HBO Max Fame, and of

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course of only Fans celebrity. We're here to talk about

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two big thematic things, and that would be which of

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the playing underdog type teams since the East play in

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situations and technically set do we think are the most dangerous?

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And then also we'll get to Grant and I discussed

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the proposed tanking solutions from the Board of Governors meeting

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last week. The NBPA, the Players Association, has their own

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set of proposals that Mort and I, time permitting, are

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going to try and parse through and deliver what we

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fin our thoughts on those before we dive in here, though,

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more to talk about some underdogs playing teams, whatever you

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want to call them.

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Speaker 2: How the heck are you? I am well, for at

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least the next one hour and fifty two minutes, I'm

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gonna be okay because I'm in my thirties. Still, that

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won't be the case after that timeframe, so we'll see.

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Speaker 1: That's rough and we can't have anyone over the age

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of forty on this podcast.

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Speaker 3: So you're not gonna be invited back after this.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's totally fair. Honestly, I'm expected to get the

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pink slim immediately.

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Speaker 1: We're nothing but ages over at hard what eye it's

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gonna be. It's freaky because this is gonna go live after.

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Speaker 2: You turn forty, I know, right right, we'll see.

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Speaker 1: People are gonna be hearing your thoughts after your turn forty.

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You're having an existential crisis just thinking about God.

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Speaker 2: That's awful. Yeah, yeah, well, thank you for putting that

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on on the Spotlight.

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Speaker 3: Well, happy birthday to you. You don't look a day

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over thirty six.

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Speaker 2: Oh that is that is you know you're joking, but

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that I take that to heart. I appreciate that because

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I was recently asked if I was over fifty, and

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I'm I'm just gonna say, well, it was a young person.

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Like they don't they don't have this ability to grasp

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age all that well, but they think twenty eight is

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ancient pretty much. Yes, But I will say usually I

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don't get to churt by anything because I've heard the

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worst things, like look, I write for Yahoo, I get

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death threats Like that's just a thing. Because you know,

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when you write national stuff, you get death threats. That

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doesn't hurt as much as someone implying that I'm over

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the age of fifty. That hurt. That was That was

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like that I went to bed and that was on

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my mind, like, god, damn it.

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Speaker 1: I can assure you you don't look fifty. If that's

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that person is all sorts of unhinged, less unhinged, or

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maybe this is unhinged. And so we're looking at this

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through the lens of how are these teams or they equipped?

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Could they actually win a playoff series? Pull up and upset?

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We might be talking about a six seed in the

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Eastern Conference again, but the bar is higher in the

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Western Conference. Is there a team that you want to

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start with that just sticks out to you?

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Speaker 2: Yes, in the East. See. So I struggle even going

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first on this because I want to pick the Raptures

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and I want to pick the Hawks, like right off

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the bat, because I know that we're going to get

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into the Hornets. The Hornets are probably going to take

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up most of this episode, but I just want to

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get into like, well they are because they're fun and

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they're kind of dangerous now, which is good. I like it.

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But like I was not a Red Let's start with

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the Raptors. I was not a Raptress guy coming into

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to the season. I thought their acquisition of Brandon Ingram

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last trade deadline was weird all things considered, I didn't

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think that that was a need that they filled. I

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was wrong. I mean, yes, it's only ten games over

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five hundred, but that is far better than I anticipated.

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I think it's far better than many people anticipated. They've

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also been sort of injured, like RJ. Barrett has missed

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twenty four games quickly as miss games like everyone on

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the benches miss game like also Yaka Pertles missed like

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what half the year something along those lines. Even Colin

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Murray Boyles's miss games. So like they're winning despite injuries,

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Like I'm just I'm very intrigued by this team. I'm

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not shutting the door on them actually coming in and

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making the postseason and even giving someone a real fright,

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Like this just feels like it's working. They have so

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many wings who can initiate offense, like Emmanuel Quickly is

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coming along a little bit more like they have post defense.

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They have a wild man in santhro mam Keila Shweeli

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coming off the bench. I mean, Who's just it took

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you way longer to talk about, right. I'm very proud

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of this is because I'm turning forty day and I

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have patience. Now Jacobe Walters is doing well, like I

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just this team is fun and it's interesting and it's

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so much better than I thought. And I love being wrong.

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So kudos to the Raptors for, yeah, making me be

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wrong about them. I appreciate it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, they're probably right where I expected them to be.

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Leading him in the regular season, I was higher on

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them than most. I don't even remember what my win

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total was on them, but I had them, I think

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as a top six team in the East where I come.

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All the stuff you said, true, I really just want

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to see this entire front court rotation healthy. At the

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same time, now Calamary Boils is out, so let's see

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what it looks like when you have him and Mamu

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and Yakka Peertl who I'm not a Yaka Peardle guy.

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But after talking to samson Folk for two years running

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on the Raptors Look Ahead and then he recently recorded

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a fantastic podcast with Lewis Atsman where they were just

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talking about Yaka Peartle basically is such an imperfect, flawed player,

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but when you have so many deficiencies on your own team,

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the stuff that he does becomes more important because the

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Raptors are not a consistent shooting teams, like the spacing

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Yaka Purtle gives you on his screens is a huge deal,

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just as being one example. With this team, though, I

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just don't trust what their offense is going to look

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like in the playoffs, especially if we're going to look

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down the stretch of close games. They've been bottom ten

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in crunch time offense for the season, and that's probably

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after ticking up a little bit recently. I think, look

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the way that like Emmanuel quickly kind of just the

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peaks and valleys he goes through with his three point shooting,

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this team isn't necessarily built to survive that. I think

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that it's good that it does feel like they sort

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of have this answer to who is that secondary perimeter

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player who's most important, And it's Jacoby Walter where it

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was coming in, could it be Grady Dick. We went

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through stretches where it was James in battle this season,

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so they have figured those elements of their rotation out

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this team. I love the Scottie Barnes, Colin Murray Boyles

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again when he's healthy. Look in the front court. Scotty

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Barnes has been a defensive monster. I think he's gonna

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be on my first team All Defense this year. Haven't

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sat down, and really I need to give that more

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thought because we're doing awards later this week. I just

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when I look at their offense and how relyant it

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can become on especially in the half court of a

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Oh we need to go to Brandon Ingram and hope

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he creates something out of nothing.

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Speaker 2: We're even seeing that a little bit with R. J.

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Speaker 1: Barrett or Manual, Like they're just I don't know they

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can be, but I just don't trust it. The results

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haven't been there at a high enough level for long enough.

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I think once you get to the playoffs, going up

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against certain defenses, if they're gonna pull I mean even

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I don't love them in a Cleveland or a New

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York matchup in the first round, if it's if it's

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the four or five, if they end up having a

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face of Boston or Detroit, forget about it. Even Detroit

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doesn't have Kate. I don't know if I trust Toronto enough,

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because Detroit's still gonna really come at you defensively. I

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just don't trust their playoff stock, even though they're an

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interesting team. But I think i'd be pretty surprised if

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they want a playoff series.

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Speaker 2: It's interesting because I have the same concerns about them

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that I have at Detroit. Look, I'm not going to

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speak down to what Detroit's doing because considering where they

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were two years ago, I am very much enjoying what's

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going on right now. But I have them a little

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bit as a paper tiker at this current stage. Like

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I think their offense is also all kinds of worrisome,

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even with Kate, because they're spacing and c atrol. She's

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much like the Raptors have issues of you know, shooting

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from be behind the arc like those two in a

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once one matchup, like at least you get play making

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from the wing, which won't really you don't really get

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a whole bunch of that in Detroit, for example, So

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like that would be would that be the best? Like

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nineties simulation throwback series the Raptors and the Pistons like

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that series would average like one hundred and eighty points

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per game.

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Speaker 1: I think there's a yeah, you're probably right, although there's

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a chance that a Magic Piston series would be too

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yeah closer, right, Yeah, Yeah, that's good. That's also the

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whole Kate Cunningham out of all of it all. I

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don't mean to discredit the Raptors was the thing. I

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think they would lose against the Pistons scenes without Kate Cunningham.

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But the Pistons are winning or hanging with OKC when

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they don't have Kate Cunningham, and I just the Raptors offense.

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I haven't seen enough from them for for long enough

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to believe in it.

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Speaker 2: And that's fair.

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Speaker 1: The team the team I want to nominate, and we'll

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get to our will each pick at the end of

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all this will wrap it up and say who you

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think is kind of the most dangerous The team that

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we've been trying to talk about, but the timing just

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hasn't worked out for a while now, the Atlanta Hawks,

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the question is, and rightfully so are the Atlanta Hawks

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for real? I know people, it's fun to kind of

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cite what they've been doing since March. If you just

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look post All Star, they've won seventeen of twenty top

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seven offense, top three defense, and they're not getting you know,

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you dig into the defensive numbers and they're not getting

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super lucky on opponents shooting from beyond the arc, which

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is which is a great sign. I think some of

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the key differences for them is having CJ.

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Speaker 3: McCullum. I think in one of their core lineups.

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Speaker 1: I know Zacharly reached, he's been shooting the ball better

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of late, but for someone like a dyce In Daniels

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or even a Jallen Johnson, it just gives you more

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spacing to work with and so you can try different

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things in the half court. It just opens up driving

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lanes for a Nikeile Alexander Walker as well, and so

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I think CJ. McCollum has provided that lift. The other

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thing in David Lee, who covers this team for Substack,

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does a great job of doing it. Had pointed out

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that they've gotten more creative with their half court screening

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and involving Dyson.

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Speaker 2: Daniels, who is.

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Speaker 1: Also just deciding to up his three point volume over

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the past week or two, is just taking more of

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them after really not taking I think he's made more

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than half of his three pointers for the season over

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the past couple weeks, and again he hasn't made a

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ton for the year. But if you're using him as

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a screener and getting him space to work as a finisher,

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where he's improved in the restricted area by over ten

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percentage points compared to pre All Star break, that ends

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up being a huge deal for your offense, and they

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have some really interesting defensive combinations they can roll out

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when you have him in Nikkeiyle, Alexander Walker, on Yekka

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kung Wu, who also probably not receiving. If you were

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to build a lengthy most improved Player ballot, I think

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there's a case for three Hawks players to be on

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there in Nikkeile, Alexander Walker, Janalon Johnson, and on Yekka

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kung Wu, who his emergence as this just viable floor

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spacer has been absolutely huge for their off when you

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don't have a Trey Young there as well. What's also

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helped is that the ke Alexander Walker, the Hawks are

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in like the seventy something percentile of offensive efficiency when

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he plays without Johnson or Trey Young on the floor.

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I know Trey Young's no longer there, but just to

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winnow down that personnel even further. The other thing to

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like about the Hawks, They've got Jonathan kaminga going it's

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he doesn't seem like he's holding onto the ball as long.

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When he does, he's seeing some of those shots go in.

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Looks more engaged as a rebounder. What I keep coming

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back to is two things. The schedule's been They've they've

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had some better wins of late, but the schedule has

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been pretty light overall. We can't trust a lot of

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this has happened in March. How much of it do

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we trust in March? And the other thing that I

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really don't trust about this team, which feels weird to

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say about the Hawks.

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Speaker 2: They have to go if they're out of transition.

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Speaker 1: They got to go through an awful lot of trouble

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to generate high quality looks. It's it's fun to watch

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the way that they will use Dyson Daniels and the

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interplay between him and Jalen Johnson and Ky Alexander Walker,

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but it's almost exhausting to have to go through all

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those motions just to make things work. And I think

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Dyson Daniels's limitations are a huge part of that. And

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so they're another team where I think a lot of

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people would question their defensive metal hang into the postseason.

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I find myself kind of wondering if you take away

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their transition attack or you force them to lower that

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frequency by just a notch or two. I don't know

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if they have enough in the half court as good

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as ni Kele, Alexander Walker is, as good as Jalen

258
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Johnson is as valuable as CJ.

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Speaker 2: McCollum can even be.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if they have enough to win four

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games in seven tries against. I mean, at this point,

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how high could they rise? They could get to fifth,

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so could they beat the Calves? Could they beat a Knicks?

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I like, I don't think so. No.

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Speaker 2: I would agree that that's a difficult path for them

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as well. And I've also made the mental note that

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they've done this over the course of primarily March, also

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part of February. But let's be real, everything past the

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calendar year is a little murky, right, especially after the

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trade deadline. I do think this will be an extremely

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important stretch of basketball for them if they do make

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it to the playoffs. Like, I'm not even going to

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be focusing all that much on Oh, could they win

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a series potentially, Like I just need to see them

275
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in a situation where opponents can adjust game to game

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where they're forced to actually produce in a half court setting,

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maybe to identify like what avenues can we get into,

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Like how do we actually approach this series? Like how

279
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do we go up against TEMX. To use Dyson Daniels

280
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as a screener as someone who's like a you know,

281
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a connector is something I find interesting, But it does

282
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mean you can't really play him all that much. With

283
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Jonathan Kuminga because I know he's shooting forty percent from three,

284
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it's an eleven game sample size, first and foremost, he's

285
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not that type of shooter, Like, there are some issues there,

286
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so you're kind of struggling a little bit to find

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the right personnel to make all those pieces work. That said,

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I am coming back to something that you and I

289
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talked about at length when this trade that went down,

290
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the Tree Young trade. C J McCollum is just so

291
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perfect for this team. And I remember when I saw

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this trade go down immediately, I loved it for Atlanta

293
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immediately because they never needed someone who was as ball

294
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dominant as trade. They needed someone who can handle the offense, yes,

295
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but someone who will also pull quickly move the ball

296
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like weave himself into the fabric of the offense. CJ

297
00:14:40,320 --> 00:14:42,679
does that. I think we've seen on Yego Kungu as

298
00:14:42,679 --> 00:14:45,399
well do that far better than before this year. It

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so like, I do think there's an avenue they can

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pull on. But you're right, the fact that they haven't

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showcased it in the regular season is kind of concerning.

302
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So I kind of want to throw this back to

303
00:14:55,200 --> 00:14:58,919
you because this is something I've been wondering. Jalen Johnson.

304
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Obviously it's going to come back to him. He's the

305
00:15:00,799 --> 00:15:06,039
team's best player by a fairly wide margin. Like we know, issue, right,

306
00:15:06,200 --> 00:15:08,759
I would say so yeah. I mean I'd be shocked

307
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if not. He's just too good. I mean, twenty three,

308
00:15:12,039 --> 00:15:14,759
ten and eight on good defense and getting to the

309
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free throw line, hitting thirty five from three, which is

310
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far better than last year. I just love what he's doing. But,

311
00:15:22,639 --> 00:15:26,799
like you, the idea of coming into the postseason and

312
00:15:26,919 --> 00:15:29,559
trying to bank on what he does primarily now, which

313
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is taking the ball out the backboard and just sprinting

314
00:15:32,000 --> 00:15:34,519
down the floor, that's not going to be an avenue

315
00:15:34,559 --> 00:15:36,639
for him that he can explore quite as much in

316
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a postseason setting, So like, what do you think he

317
00:15:40,120 --> 00:15:42,480
needs to do? Do you? Because I'm like kind of

318
00:15:42,519 --> 00:15:45,519
hesitant on going the route of, oh, he should be

319
00:15:45,559 --> 00:15:47,480
the primary passer, he should be like the guy who

320
00:15:47,559 --> 00:15:49,600
sets it up. He should like go try to average

321
00:15:49,639 --> 00:15:52,240
twelve assists or should he be more of a spot

322
00:15:52,320 --> 00:15:55,240
up shooter. Like I just can't figure the goddamn roll

323
00:15:55,320 --> 00:15:58,679
out for him when things start to slow down. I

324
00:15:58,840 --> 00:16:02,240
just don't know kind of what to do with him.

325
00:16:02,720 --> 00:16:05,879
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's tough because I think you mentioned his improved

326
00:16:06,039 --> 00:16:08,240
three point shooting and the fact, I mean he's a

327
00:16:08,360 --> 00:16:11,039
thirty six plus percent above the break ye that leads

328
00:16:11,039 --> 00:16:12,639
me to kind of think, right, like maybe he would

329
00:16:12,679 --> 00:16:14,240
be better as like kind of because he can do

330
00:16:14,320 --> 00:16:17,799
what then Dyson Daniels cannot, And like Nikaile, Alexander Walker

331
00:16:17,840 --> 00:16:20,240
as the screener is like kind of fine as a

332
00:16:20,240 --> 00:16:23,840
secondary action, but the appeal of using Jalen Johnson as

333
00:16:23,840 --> 00:16:26,120
almost like a big in those scenarios is right there.

334
00:16:26,559 --> 00:16:28,879
I think it really just depends on the personnel, right,

335
00:16:28,919 --> 00:16:32,120
and it's I think there's been enough interplay between him

336
00:16:32,120 --> 00:16:36,039
and Dyson Daniels that I'm okay with them using Jalen Johnson. Okay,

337
00:16:36,039 --> 00:16:37,360
it's on the ball, and if the end game is

338
00:16:37,399 --> 00:16:39,440
to get Diyson Daniels the ball and then it's getting

339
00:16:39,480 --> 00:16:42,919
back to Jalen Johnson, is fine, But you even mentioned

340
00:16:43,480 --> 00:16:45,320
how do you make that work between like those two

341
00:16:45,360 --> 00:16:47,960
are they could be a concern or excuse me, Dyson Daniels,

342
00:16:48,000 --> 00:16:50,799
Johnathan Minga could be a concern. Johnathan Kaminga and Jalen

343
00:16:50,840 --> 00:16:52,600
Johnson could be a concern too when you're looking at

344
00:16:52,600 --> 00:16:55,320
how defenses will guard them. They've both missed time, so

345
00:16:55,360 --> 00:16:58,200
the sample size is skewed, but the offensive rating has

346
00:16:58,200 --> 00:17:00,799
been bunk. When those two are on the court together,

347
00:17:00,799 --> 00:17:03,200
I think it's only one hundred and something possession sample size,

348
00:17:03,200 --> 00:17:05,440
but still that's something that they're going to need to

349
00:17:05,440 --> 00:17:05,920
figure out.

350
00:17:06,319 --> 00:17:08,039
Speaker 2: I ultimately think though.

351
00:17:09,240 --> 00:17:11,680
Speaker 1: He needs to be on the ball in the half

352
00:17:11,720 --> 00:17:13,960
court a majority of the time, I just don't see

353
00:17:14,240 --> 00:17:18,200
who is the because it can't be Dyson Daniels. Like

354
00:17:18,240 --> 00:17:19,880
I think the best way for him to create havoc

355
00:17:20,079 --> 00:17:22,359
is okay, as they've used him as a screener more

356
00:17:22,400 --> 00:17:23,240
often than he's ever been.

357
00:17:23,200 --> 00:17:25,039
Speaker 2: Used as his career in his career this season.

358
00:17:25,119 --> 00:17:26,799
Speaker 1: I guess that's not saying much because of the first

359
00:17:26,799 --> 00:17:29,160
two years in New Orleans, but still something to note.

360
00:17:29,359 --> 00:17:32,119
Who If it's not Jalen Johnson, who is it.

361
00:17:32,119 --> 00:17:32,599
Speaker 2: It's CJ.

362
00:17:32,720 --> 00:17:35,599
Speaker 1: McCollum or Nikkeil Alexander Walker. And I think at this point,

363
00:17:35,640 --> 00:17:39,480
like you trust Jalen Johnson as a playmaker that more

364
00:17:39,519 --> 00:17:41,799
than either of those two, by by leaps and bounds.

365
00:17:41,960 --> 00:17:45,119
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is where I think, you know, moving off

366
00:17:45,119 --> 00:17:47,920
of Luke Canard could be a little bit troublesome because

367
00:17:48,000 --> 00:17:50,440
one thing is just shooting, but the fact that he

368
00:17:50,440 --> 00:17:53,279
could also run pick and rolls, which he actually did

369
00:17:53,359 --> 00:17:56,799
at a fairly underrated level in my opinion, that's loosing

370
00:17:56,880 --> 00:17:59,759
an aspect. They can't really go back into the car position.

371
00:17:59,839 --> 00:18:04,720
So it's it's definitely going to be an an intriguing

372
00:18:04,839 --> 00:18:06,799
series no matter what they end up in. Oh and

373
00:18:06,839 --> 00:18:08,680
I say serious, I'm already putting in the in the

374
00:18:08,720 --> 00:18:12,960
actual playoffs, I can hear regardless of what's going to

375
00:18:13,000 --> 00:18:15,279
happen here, it's going to be the test, the test

376
00:18:15,319 --> 00:18:18,480
for Jalen Johnson. That's He's had a lot of fun

377
00:18:18,519 --> 00:18:22,599
in the regular season. Wow. Dost All year long. Now

378
00:18:22,640 --> 00:18:26,240
it's going to be about him trying to figure out problems.

379
00:18:26,640 --> 00:18:29,440
And I always think this is the most important and

380
00:18:29,519 --> 00:18:32,200
intriguing part of a young player's career. We saw it

381
00:18:32,200 --> 00:18:34,440
the same thing with Kawhi Leonard back when he was

382
00:18:34,440 --> 00:18:36,759
a little bit younger, Like we had the same questions

383
00:18:36,759 --> 00:18:38,799
about him, like, oh, when you get into the playoffs,

384
00:18:38,799 --> 00:18:41,319
like how will you adjust? Turns out he just dialed

385
00:18:41,400 --> 00:18:45,079
up the defense to eleven. I don't know if Jalen

386
00:18:45,119 --> 00:18:47,799
can do the same, considering the offensive burden he has

387
00:18:47,839 --> 00:18:49,720
their so like for him, it's probably going to be

388
00:18:49,759 --> 00:18:50,799
more of a balancing act.

389
00:18:52,400 --> 00:18:54,480
Speaker 1: I do think it probably helps him though that Ki

390
00:18:54,480 --> 00:18:57,240
Alexander Walker has never been a better bailout option on

391
00:18:57,279 --> 00:18:59,000
in the half court. And I don't know what I

392
00:18:59,039 --> 00:19:01,960
mean as of now. Jonathan Kaminga is that and that

393
00:19:02,000 --> 00:19:04,960
would be the ideal Jonathan Aminga, So that gives you

394
00:19:05,039 --> 00:19:07,559
another option. It's just I don't know how much he

395
00:19:07,599 --> 00:19:10,720
can play with Jalen Johnson Jonathan Ameninga, just like I

396
00:19:10,720 --> 00:19:13,039
don't know, like Dyson Daniels and Jonathan, like, you're always

397
00:19:13,079 --> 00:19:15,160
kind of in a situation where it feels as if

398
00:19:15,880 --> 00:19:19,039
how many of your best players can play together. And

399
00:19:19,039 --> 00:19:21,039
then the other thing is okay, Zachary Resiche has been

400
00:19:21,039 --> 00:19:23,000
shooting better now, But are we dealing with sort of

401
00:19:23,039 --> 00:19:26,559
a Jalen Green post All Star break situation? What does

402
00:19:26,599 --> 00:19:28,960
that look like once they get to the playoffs, because

403
00:19:29,000 --> 00:19:32,000
he is kind of blurs the lines between you know,

404
00:19:32,000 --> 00:19:33,359
if you're just looking for someone to be more of

405
00:19:33,359 --> 00:19:38,079
a compliment, like he fits Nikkei, Alexander Walker, Jalen Johnson offensive.

406
00:19:38,119 --> 00:19:40,119
He's easier to fit than a Dyson or than a

407
00:19:40,200 --> 00:19:43,119
Jonathan Kaminga, even if his ceiling is lower.

408
00:19:42,880 --> 00:19:43,640
Speaker 2: Than those players.

409
00:19:44,079 --> 00:19:46,960
Speaker 1: And just to our points of our concerns during this

410
00:19:47,519 --> 00:19:50,519
hot stretch from them, they're thirteenth in half court offense.

411
00:19:50,599 --> 00:19:52,559
Speaker 2: That's no great shakes.

412
00:19:52,640 --> 00:19:56,440
Speaker 1: It's above average, but only by a hair, right, Who

413
00:19:56,480 --> 00:19:57,759
do you want to talk about next, sir?

414
00:19:58,799 --> 00:20:01,599
Speaker 2: So I think I'm just gonna go with the more

415
00:20:02,119 --> 00:20:04,319
fun team, Like I could go with Philly and we

416
00:20:04,319 --> 00:20:06,920
could talk about like em be playing well again and whatnot,

417
00:20:07,000 --> 00:20:09,799
Like let's let's talk about the Hornets, man, Let's just

418
00:20:09,799 --> 00:20:11,759
talk about the damn Hornets. You brought him up, not

419
00:20:11,839 --> 00:20:14,599
made the record show. Here's the thing, I was never

420
00:20:14,640 --> 00:20:17,559
a Hornets hater. I was a skeptic of them because

421
00:20:17,640 --> 00:20:20,960
I had questions and I think rightfully so in terms

422
00:20:21,000 --> 00:20:23,400
of how far LaMelo ball could take them. But he's

423
00:20:23,480 --> 00:20:26,599
had so much help this year and now I think

424
00:20:26,640 --> 00:20:30,119
he's found like the right place on the totem pole.

425
00:20:30,559 --> 00:20:33,039
I think con Ka Nipple came in and has just

426
00:20:33,119 --> 00:20:37,599
been the best lever to poll in terms of floor spacing.

427
00:20:37,920 --> 00:20:40,240
You know, we're seeing Brandon Miller come in as well

428
00:20:40,319 --> 00:20:42,880
and do this thing where he can play inside, he

429
00:20:42,920 --> 00:20:45,640
can play outside. LaMelo can be a little bit more

430
00:20:46,000 --> 00:20:50,640
juicy in regards to his spot. I just the makeup

431
00:20:50,680 --> 00:20:54,240
of this team. I love it. They upgraded from Colin

432
00:20:54,319 --> 00:20:57,279
Sexton to Kobe White. Coby White has just like he's

433
00:20:57,319 --> 00:21:00,960
only played fifteen games there almost sixty points per game

434
00:21:01,119 --> 00:21:04,519
in less than twenty minutes. It's ridiculous how much he's

435
00:21:04,720 --> 00:21:08,279
just gotten off in terms of his shooting. And you

436
00:21:08,359 --> 00:21:12,079
have the role guys like Josh Green TJ Saloon, both

437
00:21:12,119 --> 00:21:14,440
of them also hitting a lot from outside. Like this

438
00:21:14,640 --> 00:21:19,480
is a very spacing oriented team, which frankly in the

439
00:21:19,519 --> 00:21:22,240
Eastern Conference specifically, when you have that many teams who

440
00:21:22,279 --> 00:21:25,880
aren't necessarily great three point shooters, or great three point

441
00:21:25,920 --> 00:21:29,599
shooting teams. That's an asset, that's a major, major asset.

442
00:21:29,799 --> 00:21:32,319
Do they need something defensively? Hell? Yes, Do they need

443
00:21:32,440 --> 00:21:35,240
more of a connector that probably isn't on the roster

444
00:21:35,400 --> 00:21:39,200
as we speak? Also, yes, But I'm just going to

445
00:21:39,240 --> 00:21:41,480
say the same thing as it did with Atlanta. This

446
00:21:41,559 --> 00:21:43,960
is a young team. They're going to need a year

447
00:21:44,000 --> 00:21:46,359
in the playoffs to get acclimated to that whole situation.

448
00:21:46,880 --> 00:21:49,279
And at least it'll give us one hell of a

449
00:21:49,400 --> 00:21:52,759
series if they make it, because they are playing fun

450
00:21:52,839 --> 00:21:54,079
basketball and they're good.

451
00:21:55,880 --> 00:21:58,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's everyone's heard me site. But since Thanksgiving?

452
00:21:58,920 --> 00:22:00,920
Speaker 1: Top six and both off and defense, and I think

453
00:22:00,920 --> 00:22:02,720
the bigger thing is now. You could note they do

454
00:22:02,799 --> 00:22:06,279
have a losing record during this stretch against top ten teams,

455
00:22:06,559 --> 00:22:08,960
but they also have a top ten offense and top

456
00:22:09,039 --> 00:22:12,480
seven defense against those teams, And so it's are they

457
00:22:12,519 --> 00:22:16,359
actually profiling as a title contender? Yeah, the statistical profile

458
00:22:16,400 --> 00:22:17,880
is sure, but no one's going to loop them into

459
00:22:17,880 --> 00:22:18,599
that conversation.

460
00:22:19,240 --> 00:22:19,359
Speaker 2: Uh.

461
00:22:19,680 --> 00:22:21,720
Speaker 1: The only other players that I would add to so

462
00:22:21,759 --> 00:22:24,000
when t John Salon's been injured, that's when we've kind

463
00:22:24,000 --> 00:22:26,559
of seen Grant Williams come on and he's been kind

464
00:22:26,599 --> 00:22:29,640
of a nice connector at both ends for them as well.

465
00:22:29,720 --> 00:22:32,400
If Sion James is hitting his three pointers, which he

466
00:22:32,480 --> 00:22:34,519
has been since the All Star Break, I think he's

467
00:22:34,519 --> 00:22:36,960
at thirty eight percent on kind of whatever volume sub

468
00:22:37,000 --> 00:22:39,960
three attempts. That dude's a defensive tank and we've seen

469
00:22:40,000 --> 00:22:41,240
some really like good defense.

470
00:22:41,279 --> 00:22:44,519
Speaker 2: He's just take He's just the way that he's built.

471
00:22:44,519 --> 00:22:47,000
Oh my god, I know you're a fitness nerd, like

472
00:22:47,039 --> 00:22:49,359
you have to be looking at James and going ah,

473
00:22:50,519 --> 00:22:52,480
and then look at yourself out for work's going I can't.

474
00:22:53,519 --> 00:22:57,039
Speaker 1: He's more of a tank than LaMelo balls, camouflage rap hummer.

475
00:22:57,039 --> 00:22:59,200
Speaker 2: Oh, that's that's how good James is.

476
00:23:00,079 --> 00:23:03,680
Speaker 1: They also, I mean we I'm everybody I'm sure wrote

477
00:23:03,720 --> 00:23:07,839
off their center rotation and Mussa Diabate is just a

478
00:23:07,880 --> 00:23:10,640
beast and here he plays with I think a level

479
00:23:10,640 --> 00:23:14,039
of physicality that people don't fully appreciate, like the way

480
00:23:14,039 --> 00:23:16,279
that he's able to fight on the glass or isn't

481
00:23:16,279 --> 00:23:17,799
going to back down against some of these guys that

482
00:23:17,880 --> 00:23:20,359
might look bigger and burlier than him.

483
00:23:20,440 --> 00:23:21,160
Speaker 2: They've been able to.

484
00:23:21,240 --> 00:23:23,599
Speaker 1: Now you look at the secondary center minutes and you

485
00:23:23,640 --> 00:23:26,720
start to wonder can you get away with Ryan Colper,

486
00:23:26,720 --> 00:23:29,079
how many minutes can he play in the postseason, even

487
00:23:29,119 --> 00:23:31,160
though he's been good for them. But they are deep

488
00:23:31,200 --> 00:23:33,519
and they can downsize if they want. When you look

489
00:23:33,559 --> 00:23:36,640
at having a Grant Williams, or even if he's healthy,

490
00:23:36,680 --> 00:23:39,759
a Tijon Salon, or if you even like a PJ. Hall,

491
00:23:40,359 --> 00:23:42,000
there's a bunch of different things they could do. And

492
00:23:42,039 --> 00:23:44,559
I really what I keep coming back to is the

493
00:23:44,640 --> 00:23:46,920
offense is just gonna be fine because we've seen it

494
00:23:46,920 --> 00:23:50,359
with LaMelo before and now you've give LaMelo a supporting cast.

495
00:23:50,359 --> 00:23:52,200
And not only that, but even if you don't yet

496
00:23:52,240 --> 00:23:56,960
trust Konkin Nipple or Brandon Miller as these secondary type creators,

497
00:23:57,000 --> 00:23:59,599
which I think you should. But if you want to

498
00:23:59,640 --> 00:24:01,720
go the play off an experience route or just the

499
00:24:01,799 --> 00:24:05,039
overall in experience route, Kobe White is sitting right there

500
00:24:05,160 --> 00:24:07,799
not doesn't have extensive postseason experience himself, but now you

501
00:24:07,839 --> 00:24:12,000
have all these different versatile offensive options. But the thing

502
00:24:12,039 --> 00:24:14,599
that I keep harping on is this team is so

503
00:24:14,799 --> 00:24:17,440
smart defensively. I think if you give all the credit

504
00:24:17,440 --> 00:24:19,400
in the world the Charles lean Is coaching staff and

505
00:24:19,400 --> 00:24:22,880
the players as well, But if they're able to just

506
00:24:22,920 --> 00:24:25,559
be competent on that end of the floor, which some

507
00:24:25,599 --> 00:24:27,359
of that is gonna be if they're gonna let their

508
00:24:27,400 --> 00:24:30,400
defense get set. They're in great shape already. But if

509
00:24:30,400 --> 00:24:32,200
they're gonna be able to be competent on that end

510
00:24:32,240 --> 00:24:33,880
of the floor, they're gonna be. There's not a team

511
00:24:33,920 --> 00:24:37,319
in the Eastern Conference that they can't hang with across

512
00:24:37,359 --> 00:24:39,759
six or seven games the way they've been playing of late,

513
00:24:39,799 --> 00:24:42,359
and they've even some of the lineups without LaMelo on

514
00:24:42,400 --> 00:24:46,039
the court have been finding your tread water. Offensively, I

515
00:24:46,079 --> 00:24:49,799
think they're deeper than people realize. They're better defensively than

516
00:24:49,799 --> 00:24:52,200
people realize. The IQ is just there. They have one

517
00:24:52,240 --> 00:24:55,240
of the best. When you're looking at the expected effective

518
00:24:55,240 --> 00:24:58,720
field goal percentage of teams when they're allowing opponent shots,

519
00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:02,000
they're in like the top six seven during this stretch too.

520
00:25:02,039 --> 00:25:05,400
And I keep saying during this stretch, but since Thanksgiving

521
00:25:05,519 --> 00:25:07,839
is like two thirds of the season or whatever, like

522
00:25:07,880 --> 00:25:11,599
we're talking about almost a sixty game sample size right now.

523
00:25:12,519 --> 00:25:14,599
I don't know, you know, we talk about this with

524
00:25:14,839 --> 00:25:16,759
It's been talked about with the Spurs, It's been talked

525
00:25:16,759 --> 00:25:19,480
about with other teams in the past. How much weight

526
00:25:19,519 --> 00:25:21,400
do you put in Okay, a lot of these guys

527
00:25:21,480 --> 00:25:24,240
do not have a ton of playoff experience, or most

528
00:25:24,279 --> 00:25:26,039
of them do not have a ton of playoff experience.

529
00:25:26,680 --> 00:25:27,920
Speaker 2: There's kind of an element there.

530
00:25:27,920 --> 00:25:29,799
Speaker 1: But when you look at the landscape of the East

531
00:25:30,519 --> 00:25:34,000
short of the Celtics, just you know, and especially under

532
00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:36,960
the circumstances with the Pistons, I don't know that there's

533
00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:41,240
a team I'd be prepared to guarantee would be Charlotte

534
00:25:41,279 --> 00:25:42,279
in a seven game series.

535
00:25:42,359 --> 00:25:44,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's interesting you say that, because, as we know

536
00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:48,960
in the postseason, it's really very matchup dependent. And I

537
00:25:49,720 --> 00:25:51,759
am not saying that Detroit wouldn't beat a lot of

538
00:25:51,799 --> 00:25:54,960
other teams, but I think specifically against Charlotte, that is

539
00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:58,440
a team they would just come out and struggle with,

540
00:25:58,519 --> 00:26:03,640
because even though they're so good defensively, the Hornets are

541
00:26:03,720 --> 00:26:08,000
so potent offensively. They move the ball extremely quickly. The

542
00:26:08,039 --> 00:26:10,400
way they get three point shots up at it like

543
00:26:10,440 --> 00:26:13,559
they're not even thinking about it. Those shots are I

544
00:26:13,559 --> 00:26:16,759
think sometimes teams, especially in the playoffs, can overthink they're

545
00:26:16,799 --> 00:26:19,160
three point attems like is this a smart shot? Like

546
00:26:19,200 --> 00:26:21,920
every position matters, Like this team is so young, and

547
00:26:21,960 --> 00:26:24,960
they're just they're not gunshy whatsoever, which I think works

548
00:26:24,960 --> 00:26:28,720
in their favor and their benefit, Like especially against it

549
00:26:28,759 --> 00:26:31,559
team like Detroit. I'm not gonna sit here and say, oh,

550
00:26:31,599 --> 00:26:35,400
because Detroit has the higher seed, they're gonna be automatically favorited,

551
00:26:35,839 --> 00:26:39,319
Like I'm gonna go with the Hornets in that series personally.

552
00:26:41,519 --> 00:26:43,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know what's tough with the Hornets is it

553
00:26:43,720 --> 00:26:47,960
feels there's the there's a nixion element to them where

554
00:26:47,960 --> 00:26:51,319
if they're three pointers aren't falling, you wonder how many

555
00:26:51,400 --> 00:26:53,880
victories they're able to grind out because they don't have

556
00:26:54,440 --> 00:26:57,279
who are you trusting to draw a bunch of fouls

557
00:26:57,400 --> 00:26:59,720
if the game gets ugly here, you're not even throw it,

558
00:26:59,400 --> 00:27:02,279
like you even throwing LaMelo into that equation? Oh no,

559
00:27:03,319 --> 00:27:05,759
And like so it gets dicey there. But I totally

560
00:27:05,759 --> 00:27:07,960
hear you and would echo you. But that that I think,

561
00:27:08,559 --> 00:27:11,519
especially because of the the higher ceiling they have on

562
00:27:11,559 --> 00:27:14,680
offense and there's variants there. Certain teams just don't feel

563
00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:17,119
like Detroit being one of them, especially if Kaid's not

564
00:27:17,160 --> 00:27:19,200
fully healthy or available, are they going to have the

565
00:27:19,240 --> 00:27:22,119
offensive firepower to bridge the gap If Charlotte gets off,

566
00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:25,640
it gets out to an early lead. But this is,

567
00:27:25,799 --> 00:27:27,480
I mean, this has been one of that I wasn't

568
00:27:27,559 --> 00:27:29,759
super low on the Hornets relatives of consensus. I think

569
00:27:29,799 --> 00:27:32,240
I took the cliche stance of are they ever going

570
00:27:32,319 --> 00:27:34,839
to get healthy? This is what they look like when

571
00:27:34,839 --> 00:27:38,359
they're healthy, and it's pretty it's pretty damn terrifying, especially

572
00:27:38,440 --> 00:27:41,440
because this isn't even close to what their final form

573
00:27:41,440 --> 00:27:44,440
would look like. The ideal Hornets team just has either

574
00:27:44,480 --> 00:27:47,240
a more fully realized version of someone up front, or

575
00:27:47,279 --> 00:27:50,200
they've actually went and upgraded at least one of those

576
00:27:50,240 --> 00:27:54,400
two front courts slots, presumably the four spot.

577
00:27:55,519 --> 00:27:57,440
Speaker 2: The next team. Oh, it's my pick, it is. It

578
00:27:57,519 --> 00:27:58,000
is tough.

579
00:28:00,079 --> 00:28:03,440
Speaker 1: Let's see, all right, I'm gonna go to you mentioned

580
00:28:03,440 --> 00:28:08,279
them before, Philly. Yeah, I just I think it just

581
00:28:08,319 --> 00:28:11,440
comes back to what what if Joellenbid and Paul George

582
00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:13,759
and Tyrese Maxie are all available at the same time,

583
00:28:13,839 --> 00:28:14,680
And I mean, VJ.

584
00:28:14,839 --> 00:28:16,519
Speaker 2: Edgecomb's been great this year.

585
00:28:17,599 --> 00:28:20,200
Speaker 1: I don't trust them is the reason I'm picking them,

586
00:28:20,240 --> 00:28:22,960
And it doesn't I guess it has to come back

587
00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:24,839
to a health thing. But if you've seen enough from

588
00:28:24,839 --> 00:28:28,559
this team, even when they're at full strength to say, Okay,

589
00:28:28,559 --> 00:28:30,759
if they get in and they have to go, I mean,

590
00:28:30,799 --> 00:28:32,680
the sixth seed is still in play for them.

591
00:28:32,720 --> 00:28:36,359
Speaker 3: Do you trust them to beat the Knicks or the Calves?

592
00:28:36,440 --> 00:28:37,119
Speaker 2: I don't think.

593
00:28:37,480 --> 00:28:39,680
Speaker 1: I don't think I'm giving them a series against the

594
00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:42,720
Pistons or the Celtics if they wind up having to

595
00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:45,960
face one of those teams. The Knicks might feel a

596
00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:49,880
little bit more realistic. Potentially the Calves as well. There's

597
00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:54,839
just something so inherently distrustworthy about the Sixers. And maybe

598
00:28:54,880 --> 00:28:57,079
it's because maybe it is the health stuff, like maybe

599
00:28:57,119 --> 00:28:59,720
I'm just colored by that. But at the same time,

600
00:29:00,279 --> 00:29:02,680
that is just a part of their story.

601
00:29:03,240 --> 00:29:04,160
Speaker 2: And yeah, we.

602
00:29:04,160 --> 00:29:06,599
Speaker 1: Could look at it and say, all right, what happens

603
00:29:06,599 --> 00:29:09,039
when they have their four best guys available one that's

604
00:29:09,039 --> 00:29:12,319
only been like three hundred and something minutes to this point.

605
00:29:12,920 --> 00:29:15,519
Speaker 3: More they've actually been outscored in.

606
00:29:15,440 --> 00:29:18,240
Speaker 1: Those minutes when they have Embiid, George Maxi, and Edgecomb

607
00:29:18,480 --> 00:29:20,880
it's only by thirteen points, and when you break it

608
00:29:20,920 --> 00:29:22,960
down by net rating, it's like a minus point six

609
00:29:23,039 --> 00:29:25,920
net rating. But the offense has been just so so

610
00:29:26,519 --> 00:29:31,839
in that time. They're scary on as a theory and

611
00:29:31,920 --> 00:29:34,519
a concept. I just don't trust that they're going to

612
00:29:34,559 --> 00:29:38,359
be able to fully actualize then the defense specifically, I

613
00:29:38,359 --> 00:29:41,400
think the offense can reach a certain peak. I just

614
00:29:41,440 --> 00:29:43,920
really don't trust the defense with the semi Embiid was

615
00:29:43,920 --> 00:29:47,119
recently talking about them overhelping. But I also wonder how

616
00:29:47,200 --> 00:29:49,759
much of a symptom what they do defensively at times

617
00:29:49,839 --> 00:29:54,799
is look at the rotating carousel of personnel they've needed

618
00:29:54,799 --> 00:29:56,440
to have on the court. How do you develop any

619
00:29:56,440 --> 00:29:59,960
sort of continuity on defense where it feels like communit,

620
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:04,039
occasion and timing is just more critical than it would

621
00:30:04,039 --> 00:30:06,279
be on offense to where you can count on a

622
00:30:06,359 --> 00:30:10,759
Tyrese Maxi orn Embiid or George even vj Edgecomb.

623
00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:15,079
Speaker 2: McCain, Oh wait, no, never mind, sorry, sorry.

624
00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:18,359
Speaker 1: Yeah, Karmikle speaking, the Sixers can't be scary because they sold,

625
00:30:18,480 --> 00:30:20,640
they sold, hi I jere McCain.

626
00:30:20,599 --> 00:30:23,720
Speaker 2: Oh god, that was I mean, look, that's still to

627
00:30:23,759 --> 00:30:27,160
me the funniest quote off the entire trade deadline. Like

628
00:30:27,240 --> 00:30:29,519
that was wild. I'm sorry.

629
00:30:29,519 --> 00:30:31,279
Speaker 1: You don't get to say we have too many guards

630
00:30:31,279 --> 00:30:33,680
and then turn around and sign and play campaign.

631
00:30:33,759 --> 00:30:37,039
Speaker 2: That's all I'm saying. I agreed. I think I'm with

632
00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:40,160
you in terms of how can you trust this team

633
00:30:40,240 --> 00:30:44,279
from a health perspective. But I'm also an optimist when

634
00:30:44,279 --> 00:30:46,400
it comes to like talent level, and this is something

635
00:30:46,440 --> 00:30:50,160
we must concede. If we're looking at the seventy six

636
00:30:50,240 --> 00:30:54,400
ers through exclusively a talent filter, I think it's reasonable

637
00:30:54,440 --> 00:30:56,799
to argue they might be the most talented, like just

638
00:30:56,920 --> 00:31:00,519
in terms of raw talent in the East. The problem

639
00:31:00,680 --> 00:31:07,000
is the the pieces are questionable fits, Like it's not

640
00:31:07,079 --> 00:31:12,319
necessarily a great, you know, puzzle that that is gathered

641
00:31:12,319 --> 00:31:14,960
by the end of it, like great into individual pieces.

642
00:31:15,039 --> 00:31:19,359
Tyre's Maxy is amazing, and I think he's actually probably

643
00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:23,519
the exception here. You know, we've always called Kevin Durant

644
00:31:23,559 --> 00:31:26,400
like the best pluck and play player in NBA history,

645
00:31:26,759 --> 00:31:28,599
and it's probably a little easier to do that as

646
00:31:28,640 --> 00:31:31,039
a forward. I would argue that Tyre's Maxy is on

647
00:31:31,079 --> 00:31:32,559
his way to becoming one of the best pluck and

648
00:31:32,559 --> 00:31:35,119
play point guards we've ever seen, because that that dude,

649
00:31:35,160 --> 00:31:39,440
I'm sure would work in any system, off ball, on ball, defense,

650
00:31:39,519 --> 00:31:42,279
motor like everything. I'm just look at this.

651
00:31:42,599 --> 00:31:44,720
Speaker 3: Look at the Philly systems alone that he's played in,

652
00:31:44,720 --> 00:31:47,400
where it's Joel Embiid centric. Know was it James Harden

653
00:31:47,440 --> 00:31:49,839
centric or no, it's Tyre's Maxie centric now, like he's

654
00:31:49,880 --> 00:31:51,640
he's kind of already proven that he has.

655
00:31:51,759 --> 00:31:55,039
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think he's outstanding. So like that's the one

656
00:31:55,079 --> 00:31:58,160
player that you don't really have to worry about. But

657
00:31:58,200 --> 00:32:02,480
then there's a drop off in that level, right because look,

658
00:32:02,720 --> 00:32:05,079
vj Edgcomb has had a great year. I fully agree,

659
00:32:05,079 --> 00:32:08,079
but we've also seen, because he's a rookie, a lot

660
00:32:08,079 --> 00:32:10,759
of stretches where he has like four or five games

661
00:32:10,799 --> 00:32:13,319
in a row where he does not look like you

662
00:32:13,359 --> 00:32:15,480
know he does when he's on his highs. Like the

663
00:32:15,559 --> 00:32:19,079
disparities between good games and bad games are fairly high.

664
00:32:19,480 --> 00:32:22,759
Kelly Oupray, solid player has missed a lot of time

665
00:32:22,799 --> 00:32:26,160
this year as well. Not the most consistent guy either,

666
00:32:26,319 --> 00:32:29,119
well one, you know, one guy one day score twenty

667
00:32:29,160 --> 00:32:32,359
five will have eleven in the follow up game and

668
00:32:32,519 --> 00:32:36,960
bad defense, Like there's that, you know that the consistent

669
00:32:37,079 --> 00:32:39,440
level with him and with them be and every time

670
00:32:39,480 --> 00:32:43,839
he hears the ground, you're like, oh, like like hey,

671
00:32:44,359 --> 00:32:47,559
Andre or Dominic come into the game. Right, It's just

672
00:32:48,680 --> 00:32:51,680
I think it's tough and you you're playing with that

673
00:32:52,240 --> 00:32:54,200
in the back of your mind all the time. So

674
00:32:54,279 --> 00:32:58,039
it depends on like the Sixers themselves. Do they feel healthy,

675
00:32:58,079 --> 00:33:01,119
do they feel confident? Do they feel as though they

676
00:33:01,240 --> 00:33:04,039
have a share rhythm at this point in the season.

677
00:33:04,400 --> 00:33:06,880
If they do, I haven't seen it yet, not to

678
00:33:06,920 --> 00:33:10,720
the full extent, but I just can't ignore, like just

679
00:33:10,799 --> 00:33:14,839
the raw talent level, which is just immense, even with

680
00:33:14,960 --> 00:33:18,680
Paul George being worth what half his contract a third

681
00:33:18,680 --> 00:33:22,279
of his contract, They're.

682
00:33:22,079 --> 00:33:25,279
Speaker 1: Also they're also just so you throw out the contract

683
00:33:25,359 --> 00:33:27,640
of it all, even if Paul when Paul George looked

684
00:33:28,319 --> 00:33:33,799
just like a nervonic compliment. Here, they're so aside from center,

685
00:33:34,039 --> 00:33:37,640
and that's when Joel Embiid is healthy, they're so positionally

686
00:33:37,759 --> 00:33:40,920
small that it feels that there are moments in a

687
00:33:40,920 --> 00:33:43,640
half court where it's, oh, they're just getting absolutely roasted

688
00:33:43,920 --> 00:33:44,599
from beyond the.

689
00:33:44,599 --> 00:33:45,319
Speaker 2: Arc or at the rim.

690
00:33:45,359 --> 00:33:47,400
Speaker 1: And then also what probably doesn't get talked about enough

691
00:33:47,480 --> 00:33:50,559
is the transition defense is meh.

692
00:33:50,039 --> 00:33:52,119
Speaker 2: At best, and I don't know how.

693
00:33:52,319 --> 00:33:55,400
Speaker 1: I don't know how you positionally game it to change that,

694
00:33:55,480 --> 00:33:58,000
even if you have Joel Embiid, because at this point

695
00:33:58,039 --> 00:34:00,759
he's not gonna help your transition defense. And then just

696
00:34:00,799 --> 00:34:02,799
outside of that, if you have to go minutes without

697
00:34:02,880 --> 00:34:04,960
him or you're gonna get even smaller on the court,

698
00:34:04,960 --> 00:34:07,039
what is that gonna do? You know, you're looking at

699
00:34:07,119 --> 00:34:10,199
rebounding or the share of opponent shots that are coming

700
00:34:10,239 --> 00:34:13,320
at the rim in the half court, which they've bled

701
00:34:13,840 --> 00:34:15,519
since the All Star break. There's laying a ton of

702
00:34:15,559 --> 00:34:17,199
threes and a ton of looks at the rim, which

703
00:34:17,239 --> 00:34:20,719
is not the ideal defensive shot profile to have.

704
00:34:21,559 --> 00:34:23,599
Speaker 3: They're a tough team. I get the oh, what if

705
00:34:23,639 --> 00:34:24,480
everybody's healthy?

706
00:34:24,480 --> 00:34:27,800
Speaker 1: And maybe they will be because look, Paul George was suspended,

707
00:34:28,039 --> 00:34:30,760
I wouldn't call Tyree's Max the injury prone if Joelle

708
00:34:30,880 --> 00:34:33,679
be just available in the playoffs, Yeah, they're They've become

709
00:34:33,719 --> 00:34:37,280
more interesting. I just I think that we might be

710
00:34:37,320 --> 00:34:39,800
getting ahead of our skis with well, think about what

711
00:34:39,840 --> 00:34:43,000
they're ceiling is at full strength, I just don't maybe

712
00:34:43,000 --> 00:34:45,320
think it's as high, especially when you're looking at someone

713
00:34:45,400 --> 00:34:47,320
like what is the team? So you to pick an

714
00:34:47,360 --> 00:34:50,039
ideal matchup for Philly in the first round of the

715
00:34:50,039 --> 00:34:50,800
playoff series?

716
00:34:51,719 --> 00:34:54,360
Speaker 2: Who is it? And I can just go everyone here

717
00:34:55,519 --> 00:34:55,800
you go.

718
00:34:55,920 --> 00:34:57,360
Speaker 1: I mean, any of the teams that are in front

719
00:34:57,360 --> 00:34:59,320
of them, they could feasibly play, right, and I think

720
00:34:59,320 --> 00:35:02,159
with the exception of the Raptors and the Hawks, they're

721
00:35:02,159 --> 00:35:05,079
not gonna end up playing but Celtics or Pistons.

722
00:35:05,639 --> 00:35:09,599
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think you're right. I think you're right. Like

723
00:35:09,599 --> 00:35:13,000
like I think is it I'm not trying to pick

724
00:35:13,000 --> 00:35:15,280
on Karl Anthony Towns, right, but like there's just this

725
00:35:15,480 --> 00:35:18,599
mental advantage there at the center position immediately in the

726
00:35:18,639 --> 00:35:23,039
Embiid Towns matchup. Like even Embiid, at like sixty percent

727
00:35:23,039 --> 00:35:28,159
of himself, just has something on Towns, which I don't

728
00:35:28,159 --> 00:35:32,760
think is even quantifiable necessarily, but he just gets into

729
00:35:32,800 --> 00:35:37,880
that man's brain in somehow, some way and uses that

730
00:35:38,000 --> 00:35:41,159
to his own advantage consistently. So I think that alone

731
00:35:41,239 --> 00:35:45,800
is interesting. Love Brunson, but good luck trying to guard Maxie,

732
00:35:45,840 --> 00:35:50,159
who is just so much quicker than him and who,

733
00:35:50,360 --> 00:35:54,239
like again, New York not that deep. Again, I do

734
00:35:54,280 --> 00:35:57,119
think there's a little bit more depth in Philly, although

735
00:35:57,119 --> 00:36:00,679
it's like depth that hasn't been shaped.

736
00:36:01,400 --> 00:36:05,599
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I think if you're talking about if you're

737
00:36:05,599 --> 00:36:08,719
looking at the injuries of what did Landry shammittt look like,

738
00:36:08,760 --> 00:36:10,599
is Duce McBride is still gonna be heard at that point,

739
00:36:10,639 --> 00:36:12,840
I could see you thinking the Sixers are deeper, But

740
00:36:13,400 --> 00:36:16,199
I do think the Knicks are the deeper team. The

741
00:36:16,239 --> 00:36:19,119
Sixers do have the higher end second well, I mean

742
00:36:19,159 --> 00:36:21,639
because Joel Embiid is the second dairy Town. The Knicks

743
00:36:21,679 --> 00:36:24,599
just they go through these motions of you never know

744
00:36:24,639 --> 00:36:27,039
who their second best player is good from a night

745
00:36:27,079 --> 00:36:30,559
to night basis, and they don't have a reliable second

746
00:36:30,599 --> 00:36:33,280
best offensive player. Maybe you could make the case the

747
00:36:33,280 --> 00:36:36,199
Sixers don't either, but I'll take stabs in the dark

748
00:36:36,280 --> 00:36:39,679
with Paul George, vj Edgecom and Joel Embiid versus Carnton

749
00:36:39,719 --> 00:36:43,840
Town's a Ogan and Obi and Michale Bridges in those roles.

750
00:36:44,000 --> 00:36:45,239
Speaker 2: I do wonder if, just.

751
00:36:45,199 --> 00:36:47,800
Speaker 1: Because of the when I was talking about the positional

752
00:36:47,840 --> 00:36:50,559
size thing outside of Joel Embiid, if they might. They

753
00:36:50,559 --> 00:36:52,719
probably don't want to get in a shootout with Boston,

754
00:36:52,760 --> 00:36:55,480
but Boston isn't a team that's super huge because if

755
00:36:55,480 --> 00:36:58,039
they're gonna play Vouch, you've won, as the Sixers, like

756
00:36:58,039 --> 00:36:59,960
if Ivo is gonna be on the court, like you've won.

757
00:37:00,400 --> 00:37:03,039
So Kaita is good, but after that it's you're dealing

758
00:37:03,039 --> 00:37:05,199
with wild cards and guys who are going to be smaller.

759
00:37:05,239 --> 00:37:06,199
Speaker 2: I'd be curious to know.

760
00:37:06,159 --> 00:37:08,199
Speaker 1: What they and I think they've only played Boston once

761
00:37:08,440 --> 00:37:09,639
so far right this season.

762
00:37:09,840 --> 00:37:12,360
Speaker 2: I'm not mistaken, So that would be the other one.

763
00:37:12,800 --> 00:37:15,800
Speaker 1: Uh, let's spotlight another team each who got for me

764
00:37:15,840 --> 00:37:16,800
after the Sixers?

765
00:37:17,360 --> 00:37:19,599
Speaker 2: Well, it's going to be a little depressing. But the

766
00:37:19,719 --> 00:37:23,239
Orlando Magic, I don't want to talk about them. Let's

767
00:37:23,280 --> 00:37:26,719
move on. You said, honest there, You're right? Should we

768
00:37:26,760 --> 00:37:28,719
just move on? Should we just say screwed with the Magic?

769
00:37:28,760 --> 00:37:29,000
We can?

770
00:37:30,119 --> 00:37:32,719
Speaker 1: Their offense has outperformed at their defense since the All

771
00:37:32,760 --> 00:37:34,199
Star Break, and both have been dogged.

772
00:37:36,159 --> 00:37:39,239
Speaker 2: You know, I made this. I wrote this on Blue

773
00:37:39,280 --> 00:37:42,920
Guy the other day and it was it was harsh,

774
00:37:43,000 --> 00:37:45,239
but I don't necessarily think it's unfair. Right, Like, they

775
00:37:45,280 --> 00:37:49,559
spent six years with the Vooch and Fortier Aaron Gordon trio,

776
00:37:49,719 --> 00:37:53,440
and like I will give the Magic this they give

777
00:37:54,280 --> 00:37:57,559
their seems like a real chance. They don't blow things

778
00:37:57,639 --> 00:38:00,320
up until they feel like, okay, we've we've got actually

779
00:38:00,320 --> 00:38:03,480
given this a lot of big enough sample size. They

780
00:38:03,519 --> 00:38:06,559
spent six years trying to make that trio work. It

781
00:38:06,599 --> 00:38:09,079
didn't go like so in twenty twenty one, they blew

782
00:38:09,119 --> 00:38:12,079
everything to pieces. Now we're in twenty twenty six, five

783
00:38:12,159 --> 00:38:15,679
years later, and they've gone full circle. Like again, I

784
00:38:15,719 --> 00:38:18,559
appreciate that there are injuries. I truly I get it,

785
00:38:18,599 --> 00:38:20,840
and that is going to be the first thing coming

786
00:38:20,880 --> 00:38:22,719
out of the mouth of Magic fans, and rightfully so

787
00:38:24,239 --> 00:38:28,079
that said, this team just does not fit Again. We

788
00:38:28,119 --> 00:38:31,280
were talking about like the pieces in Philadelphia. Look that

789
00:38:31,360 --> 00:38:34,239
puzzle looks a lot better than whatever fucked up puzzle

790
00:38:34,320 --> 00:38:37,960
is looking like in Orlando. This is just and I

791
00:38:38,000 --> 00:38:40,840
appreciate the talent level of these guys as well, but

792
00:38:41,920 --> 00:38:45,800
the three point shooting is just so suspect. You can't

793
00:38:45,920 --> 00:38:51,159
rely on it whatsoever. They're not a great rebounding team whatsoever.

794
00:38:51,599 --> 00:38:53,239
Like they get a ton of points at the free

795
00:38:53,280 --> 00:38:55,719
pro line every single game, and that's not something you

796
00:38:55,840 --> 00:39:00,159
historically can count on in a postseason setting. Like I,

797
00:39:00,159 --> 00:39:03,239
I just don't believe in this team. I'm sorry, I

798
00:39:03,920 --> 00:39:08,000
am completely out and I say that as despite being

799
00:39:08,039 --> 00:39:10,480
one of the biggest Anthony Black fans on the face

800
00:39:10,519 --> 00:39:10,960
of the Earth.

801
00:39:11,039 --> 00:39:13,840
Speaker 1: I love what he's done this year. But this roster's

802
00:39:13,880 --> 00:39:16,960
just playing either. It's another injury that they're dealing with.

803
00:39:16,880 --> 00:39:19,760
Speaker 2: The same I'm just basically hoping that he'll be back,

804
00:39:19,760 --> 00:39:23,840
so I'm assuming that, but like, I just I don't

805
00:39:23,840 --> 00:39:27,519
trust this team at all. I'm completely I don't think you.

806
00:39:27,519 --> 00:39:29,880
Speaker 1: Can when they're like, you shouldn't be this relyant on

807
00:39:30,000 --> 00:39:33,880
Javon Carter as we're entering April, is the is a problem,

808
00:39:33,960 --> 00:39:36,280
and I think, look, but the one thing you got

809
00:39:36,320 --> 00:39:37,760
to give them a shot out for is so you

810
00:39:37,840 --> 00:39:40,039
kind of just look at not every iteration, but of

811
00:39:40,079 --> 00:39:42,599
the lineups that end up playing the most minutes for

812
00:39:42,639 --> 00:39:45,360
them or starting games, like they all end up as

813
00:39:45,400 --> 00:39:49,760
like these demonstrative positives, but you're never strength together. Not

814
00:39:49,880 --> 00:39:52,280
like I'm not even talking about Oh like the Franz Wagner,

815
00:39:52,320 --> 00:39:55,679
that Core five lineup, It's okay, like the sugs Bane

816
00:39:56,159 --> 00:39:58,920
Anthony Black, Wendell corn junor palomin in Carolina plus seven

817
00:39:59,039 --> 00:40:01,480
prone hundred possessions. Oh, we're gonna put Tristan da Silva

818
00:40:01,519 --> 00:40:05,280
in for Anthony Black plus ten points per one hundred possessions.

819
00:40:05,400 --> 00:40:09,199
So you gotta hand it to them there. But it's

820
00:40:09,239 --> 00:40:13,239
like you can't piece together. It feels like one they

821
00:40:13,239 --> 00:40:15,199
did have that it was like post All Star break

822
00:40:15,239 --> 00:40:17,079
or fell. Oh are they turning a corner here, look

823
00:40:17,079 --> 00:40:20,119
at what Paalo's doing. But you can't put together a

824
00:40:20,119 --> 00:40:21,920
long enough stretch with this team because one, I guess

825
00:40:21,920 --> 00:40:24,880
another injury is always right around the corner. But but two,

826
00:40:25,280 --> 00:40:28,159
it does feel as if the offense is always gonna

827
00:40:28,199 --> 00:40:31,840
come back crashing down. And now you kind of look at, oh,

828
00:40:31,880 --> 00:40:34,599
there's been some defensive regression here, and look missing Anthony

829
00:40:34,599 --> 00:40:37,559
Black Isaac hasn't been there. Franz Wagner is pretty important

830
00:40:37,559 --> 00:40:39,400
to like, like he can be pretty important. What they're

831
00:40:39,400 --> 00:40:43,199
doing defensively is barely played this season. Excuses abound, But

832
00:40:43,599 --> 00:40:45,679
even if you want to just leave it at that, it's, well,

833
00:40:46,119 --> 00:40:48,960
how are you supposed to trust this team? I do

834
00:40:49,039 --> 00:40:51,639
have a question, though, would you trust the Magic or

835
00:40:51,679 --> 00:40:54,639
the Sixers more? Because I find myself a little really,

836
00:40:54,719 --> 00:40:57,079
I found myself more more sold on the more sold

837
00:40:57,079 --> 00:40:57,760
on our land.

838
00:40:57,639 --> 00:41:01,199
Speaker 2: Up No so so, And I have a very simplistic

839
00:41:01,320 --> 00:41:04,519
reason for why I'm trusting the Sixers over the Magic.

840
00:41:05,079 --> 00:41:07,599
They have by far the better player, and he's the

841
00:41:07,639 --> 00:41:09,920
guy with the ball in his hands who makes better decisions.

842
00:41:10,039 --> 00:41:13,280
So and I think that just means so much more

843
00:41:13,320 --> 00:41:15,960
in a playoff context. Like again, they can give Polo

844
00:41:16,079 --> 00:41:18,079
the ball and ask him to do stuff and he'll

845
00:41:18,079 --> 00:41:21,480
do fine. Doesn't have the same level of efficiency. He

846
00:41:21,480 --> 00:41:23,519
doesn't have the same level of court division, he doesn't

847
00:41:23,559 --> 00:41:26,360
have the same speed. He doesn't he doesn't have the

848
00:41:26,400 --> 00:41:28,719
ability to go out and score to the same extent.

849
00:41:28,840 --> 00:41:31,360
He doesn't have the ability to create his own jump

850
00:41:31,360 --> 00:41:35,519
shots to the same extent as Maxi's. It's such a

851
00:41:35,639 --> 00:41:39,400
different beast when your primary player has all of those

852
00:41:39,400 --> 00:41:45,599
capabilities and the Sixers just have that, whereas the Magic don't.

853
00:41:46,079 --> 00:41:48,199
Like if you're putting the ball in the hands of

854
00:41:48,559 --> 00:41:51,840
Anthony Black or Desmond Baine, Okay, good, those guys are

855
00:41:52,000 --> 00:41:55,079
perfectly reasonable guards. Jalen Sucks has been better as a

856
00:41:55,119 --> 00:41:59,519
playmaker too, but none of them has the unpredictability and

857
00:41:59,519 --> 00:42:03,119
the nature, generally speaking of a Tyrese Maxi, for example,

858
00:42:03,519 --> 00:42:07,960
who can at times single handedly single handedly win you games.

859
00:42:08,599 --> 00:42:13,159
I question whether the Magic, when things get tough, really

860
00:42:13,199 --> 00:42:15,639
can hand the ball to someone and say it's take

861
00:42:15,719 --> 00:42:16,079
us home.

862
00:42:17,599 --> 00:42:20,559
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's fair, that's really fair, and you have to

863
00:42:20,559 --> 00:42:22,400
cake in the whole. Now we're starting to hear the

864
00:42:22,480 --> 00:42:26,119
murmurings that Jamal Mosley's lost the locker room, there were

865
00:42:26,119 --> 00:42:29,119
people advocating for them to Michael Malone him, yeah, a

866
00:42:29,199 --> 00:42:30,719
couple of days ago, was they after they gave up

867
00:42:30,760 --> 00:42:34,639
thirty one straight points they should So yeah, I mean,

868
00:42:34,679 --> 00:42:38,280
look your twentieth in defense post All Star Break, when

869
00:42:38,320 --> 00:42:40,599
opponents have only shot thirty four point four percent from

870
00:42:40,639 --> 00:42:44,440
three during that stretch. It does there does have that

871
00:42:44,760 --> 00:42:47,760
feel beyond injuries. It feels like something is rotten in

872
00:42:47,880 --> 00:42:51,960
Orlando there, but just playoff specifically, I think if you were,

873
00:42:52,079 --> 00:42:54,840
if you were to cling to something for Orlando is

874
00:42:54,840 --> 00:42:58,039
that this team is still built to win ugly or

875
00:42:58,079 --> 00:42:59,960
almost has to win ugly. And so if you get

876
00:43:00,079 --> 00:43:03,320
into a playoff matchup where you're able to ugly it up,

877
00:43:03,599 --> 00:43:05,800
slow things down, or you go up against an offense,

878
00:43:05,840 --> 00:43:08,159
you know, if they play a team like New York

879
00:43:08,440 --> 00:43:11,400
whose half court offense is less predictable than it was

880
00:43:11,480 --> 00:43:14,000
last season, but still something that I think you can neutralize.

881
00:43:14,000 --> 00:43:16,119
Speaker 3: We've seen that a bunch post All Star Break.

882
00:43:16,199 --> 00:43:20,119
Speaker 1: Maybe you're feeling pretty good about it, but that's if

883
00:43:20,159 --> 00:43:22,679
you're if you're Orlando, you can't pick them against Boston

884
00:43:22,840 --> 00:43:26,199
or Cleveland or Detroit with alcaid, I might still give

885
00:43:26,199 --> 00:43:28,880
the edge too or or I might still give the

886
00:43:28,920 --> 00:43:29,679
edge of Detroit.

887
00:43:29,679 --> 00:43:34,760
Speaker 2: Probably is still giving Detroit. Yeah, that's that's depressing. Should

888
00:43:34,800 --> 00:43:37,480
we move on from the depressing Orlando Magic? And I'm

889
00:43:37,480 --> 00:43:38,880
guessing still stay in Florida.

890
00:43:40,000 --> 00:43:41,599
Speaker 1: No, I was gonna say, we haven't talked about a

891
00:43:41,639 --> 00:43:42,559
Western Conference team.

892
00:43:42,880 --> 00:43:44,320
Speaker 2: Oh, the Los Angeles Clippers.

893
00:43:44,840 --> 00:43:47,360
Speaker 1: We now, And so when you're talking about threat level

894
00:43:47,360 --> 00:43:49,480
in the Western Conference, to me, it comes down to

895
00:43:49,480 --> 00:43:53,159
two teams. Portland's defense has been frisky.

896
00:43:53,239 --> 00:43:53,519
Speaker 2: Again.

897
00:43:53,920 --> 00:43:56,239
Speaker 1: You could play that what if Steph Curry is healthy

898
00:43:56,239 --> 00:43:58,960
and Golden State card if you want to. It really

899
00:43:58,960 --> 00:44:02,199
comes down to the Suns or Clippers. And the Suns

900
00:44:02,239 --> 00:44:06,239
are annihilatory in the way they defend. I'm not gonna

901
00:44:06,239 --> 00:44:08,840
trust their offense, even with Devin Booker. And if you

902
00:44:08,920 --> 00:44:11,280
have a if Dylan Brooks is healthy, I Jalen Green's

903
00:44:11,320 --> 00:44:14,280
healthy in the playoffs. But it's not even just that

904
00:44:14,400 --> 00:44:16,599
is you have to view these teams through two separate lenses,

905
00:44:16,960 --> 00:44:19,840
or excuse me, one lens. If you're facing the Thunder,

906
00:44:19,920 --> 00:44:22,639
it's just over in my book as the eight seed coming.

907
00:44:22,440 --> 00:44:23,039
Speaker 2: Out of the West.

908
00:44:23,480 --> 00:44:26,559
Speaker 1: Maybe with the Spurs it gets slightly more interesting just

909
00:44:26,599 --> 00:44:29,199
because you don't have players there over a ton of

910
00:44:29,199 --> 00:44:31,920
playoff experience. You could play the card of, well, how

911
00:44:31,960 --> 00:44:35,440
do they react depending on if defenses get more egregious

912
00:44:35,440 --> 00:44:37,199
in the way they're guarding a Steph Castle or even

913
00:44:37,239 --> 00:44:40,480
a Dearon Fox or Dylan Harper. And so I then

914
00:44:40,480 --> 00:44:44,079
asked myself who would be a more interesting matchup for

915
00:44:44,119 --> 00:44:47,280
the Spurs in Round one? Had you asked me this

916
00:44:47,360 --> 00:44:50,639
a few months ago, it certainly wouldn't have been the Clippers.

917
00:44:50,960 --> 00:44:53,880
But we now have a bigger sample size, more of

918
00:44:53,920 --> 00:44:57,360
them being a good basketball team while also having traded

919
00:44:57,440 --> 00:45:00,400
James Harden and if heats a Zubos then when they

920
00:45:00,400 --> 00:45:04,199
were just an absolute mess to start the season, six

921
00:45:04,239 --> 00:45:06,440
and twenty one, five and twenty one, whatever, it was.

922
00:45:07,039 --> 00:45:08,159
Speaker 2: Just post All Star breaks.

923
00:45:08,199 --> 00:45:12,360
Speaker 1: Specifically top five in net rating, sixth in offense, tenth

924
00:45:12,360 --> 00:45:17,199
in defense. Kawhi Leonard has been what the top five

925
00:45:17,239 --> 00:45:19,639
player in the league this season.

926
00:45:20,119 --> 00:45:22,960
Speaker 2: The best certainly the best American player in the league.

927
00:45:23,039 --> 00:45:26,559
Speaker 1: Yeah, so well, I think I don't know Kaid would

928
00:45:26,559 --> 00:45:27,280
have a case there.

929
00:45:27,199 --> 00:45:32,000
Speaker 2: Now, Kawhi Overkate, come on, come on, the efficiency, the defense,

930
00:45:32,039 --> 00:45:35,199
come on, Kawhi. He's been on another level.

931
00:45:35,400 --> 00:45:38,920
Speaker 1: But offensively, specifically and then you have, Oh, Darius Garland

932
00:45:39,239 --> 00:45:41,320
is healthy. Now, I don't think he's going to shoot

933
00:45:41,320 --> 00:45:43,599
a trillion percent from three forever, but the fact that

934
00:45:43,639 --> 00:45:46,360
he's hitting the off the dribble threes, hitting the spot

935
00:45:46,480 --> 00:45:49,360
up threes, he gives you that shake in the half court.

936
00:45:49,800 --> 00:45:53,519
So now you have, when they're healthy, two top tier

937
00:45:54,079 --> 00:45:57,760
offensive engines with a defense that's still you know you

938
00:45:57,800 --> 00:46:00,880
have Chris done there, Derek Jones Junior is healthy. You've

939
00:46:00,920 --> 00:46:04,559
been getting enough just out of your bigs when they're available.

940
00:46:04,840 --> 00:46:08,280
You've gotten some really good minutes and contributions from a

941
00:46:08,400 --> 00:46:11,639
Kobe Sanders and a Jordan Miller. Even Isaiah Jackson has

942
00:46:11,639 --> 00:46:13,800
had some moments for them.

943
00:46:14,119 --> 00:46:16,159
Speaker 2: I think it's the Clippers, if you're talking.

944
00:46:16,280 --> 00:46:18,000
Speaker 1: I've gone back and forth on this, but if you

945
00:46:18,039 --> 00:46:20,360
had to pick a team to give the Spurs more

946
00:46:20,400 --> 00:46:22,800
of a run for their money, Clippers are sons. And

947
00:46:22,840 --> 00:46:24,440
if you disagree and think it would be the Warriors

948
00:46:24,519 --> 00:46:26,800
or Blazers, feel free. I think it's the Clippers.

949
00:46:27,559 --> 00:46:31,440
Speaker 2: Well, I both disagree and agree at the same time,

950
00:46:31,480 --> 00:46:35,199
because one thing is the star level. You just need

951
00:46:35,280 --> 00:46:38,400
a fully fledged, like top tier star to compete against

952
00:46:38,400 --> 00:46:41,719
the Spurs. You do Kawhi Leonard is that guy. And

953
00:46:41,840 --> 00:46:44,639
at the same time, there's also that very intriguing subplot

954
00:46:44,679 --> 00:46:47,320
of like Kawhi against the Spurs in a playoff setting,

955
00:46:47,440 --> 00:46:52,199
which would fantastic, And the fact that there is a

956
00:46:52,280 --> 00:46:55,559
Darius Garland as well, who is I think a kind

957
00:46:55,599 --> 00:46:58,039
of forgotten man a little bit just in terms of

958
00:46:58,119 --> 00:47:01,159
how good he actually is. I don't know if it's

959
00:47:01,239 --> 00:47:03,159
because he played in Cleveland for a couple of years

960
00:47:03,280 --> 00:47:05,360
and they only had those you know that the one

961
00:47:05,440 --> 00:47:08,960
really good year, but it seems like he's still a

962
00:47:09,000 --> 00:47:12,079
little bit on an afterthought for the like the average

963
00:47:12,159 --> 00:47:17,239
NBA fan, he is so ridiculously talented, and he can

964
00:47:17,400 --> 00:47:20,119
incorporate himself so well as an off ball guy as well,

965
00:47:20,400 --> 00:47:22,480
Like he'll pull up, but he'll also spot up, so

966
00:47:22,559 --> 00:47:26,000
like he's easier to incorporate from an offensive perspective than

967
00:47:26,119 --> 00:47:28,280
James Harden, who was ball dominant, not much of an

968
00:47:28,840 --> 00:47:31,360
off ball guy, so like he has a lot of

969
00:47:31,360 --> 00:47:36,400
gravity that James just doesn't have. But yeah, so I

970
00:47:36,440 --> 00:47:39,400
think I'm going the route with them in terms of

971
00:47:40,960 --> 00:47:44,320
they have the superstar, but they don't have the size.

972
00:47:44,440 --> 00:47:47,960
And that's where I come in and disagree because how

973
00:47:48,000 --> 00:47:51,039
do you stop Wenby If you're the Clippers.

974
00:47:50,679 --> 00:47:53,039
Speaker 3: Who's okay, But who's answering that question?

975
00:47:53,119 --> 00:47:55,000
Speaker 2: No, But but what I'm saying is, so, for example,

976
00:47:55,000 --> 00:47:56,840
if we're going to the Portland route, which I was

977
00:47:56,880 --> 00:47:59,920
going to get to, at least there's a Donovan Klingon

978
00:48:00,119 --> 00:48:04,360
right at least there's like this behemoth inside near the basket,

979
00:48:04,800 --> 00:48:09,320
who does have the potential to give Morph a fight.

980
00:48:09,400 --> 00:48:11,559
Like and when I say give Morph a fight, it's

981
00:48:11,679 --> 00:48:14,920
just I'm not trying to be ageists, but like Brook

982
00:48:14,960 --> 00:48:18,480
Lopez is a gazillion years old, it is going to

983
00:48:18,559 --> 00:48:22,079
be taxing for him to play in a large capacity

984
00:48:22,119 --> 00:48:26,440
against Wimpy, whereas with Dono van Klingen, I imagine that

985
00:48:26,440 --> 00:48:27,639
would be a little bit easier.

986
00:48:30,559 --> 00:48:32,920
Speaker 1: But you don't have in Portland. There's not the rest

987
00:48:32,960 --> 00:48:35,440
of the offensive infrastructure. Those are just because you might

988
00:48:35,519 --> 00:48:37,599
have a bet if you're basing everything off of who

989
00:48:37,599 --> 00:48:38,480
has the it's sort of.

990
00:48:40,400 --> 00:48:41,800
Speaker 2: It I'm better at guarding you.

991
00:48:42,320 --> 00:48:46,360
Speaker 1: But yeah, but you're trusting Portland's offensive infrastructure more than

992
00:48:47,039 --> 00:48:49,559
the Clippers is because I think what you're getting at

993
00:48:49,559 --> 00:48:51,119
to me is kind of falls in the lines of, well,

994
00:48:51,360 --> 00:48:54,760
Team X has a better player to defend Nikola Jokic with.

995
00:48:55,000 --> 00:48:56,239
I think at the end of the day, it just

996
00:48:56,239 --> 00:48:58,800
doesn't fucking matter when you're talking about that.

997
00:48:59,599 --> 00:49:02,800
Speaker 2: No, but I think so I hear what you're saying.

998
00:49:02,840 --> 00:49:06,079
But specifically with the Clippers, I think there's such a

999
00:49:06,119 --> 00:49:09,760
gaping hole when it comes to like the rim protection

1000
00:49:10,239 --> 00:49:12,800
and just not being able to take away those things

1001
00:49:12,800 --> 00:49:16,119
from I mean, you're asking me specifically about the Spurs

1002
00:49:16,199 --> 00:49:18,119
eighteen that loves to get into the painment. It's not

1003
00:49:18,159 --> 00:49:20,440
just Wenby by the way, like it is when Stefan

1004
00:49:20,519 --> 00:49:23,960
Castle gets downhill. It's when Daron Fox gets downhill. Hell,

1005
00:49:24,039 --> 00:49:27,119
it's when Dylan Harper gets downhill. There's just there's so

1006
00:49:27,239 --> 00:49:31,199
many guys who will relentlessly go towards the basket. And

1007
00:49:31,239 --> 00:49:33,760
that's where I wonder if the Clippers are up for

1008
00:49:33,800 --> 00:49:37,599
that task, Like do they have the personnel necessary to

1009
00:49:37,719 --> 00:49:40,519
keep the perimeter guys on the actual perimeter? Do they

1010
00:49:40,559 --> 00:49:43,360
have enough to actually prevent them to getting all the

1011
00:49:43,400 --> 00:49:46,159
way to the rim? That's where I question that. And

1012
00:49:46,199 --> 00:49:48,119
in terms of Portland, I just think they have a

1013
00:49:48,199 --> 00:49:54,480
more deep offensive, like not just bench but like a

1014
00:49:54,519 --> 00:49:58,079
starting lineup or in totality like they have more guys

1015
00:49:58,119 --> 00:50:01,760
who can facilitate on their own or for others, like

1016
00:50:02,039 --> 00:50:04,159
they have a guy who can pop for twenty five

1017
00:50:04,360 --> 00:50:07,000
any any damn game. So like, to me, it's between

1018
00:50:07,159 --> 00:50:10,840
those two and with I kind of want to say

1019
00:50:10,840 --> 00:50:13,440
Golden Golden State is a wild card just because of

1020
00:50:13,480 --> 00:50:16,559
the staff angle. But like Steph has missed how many games?

1021
00:50:16,559 --> 00:50:20,360
Speaker 1: Though again every update is he's going to be reevaluated

1022
00:50:20,480 --> 00:50:22,079
right in a week, which.

1023
00:50:21,960 --> 00:50:24,639
Speaker 2: Is just like, so if he's not available, let's let's

1024
00:50:24,679 --> 00:50:27,119
just not count those guys in. But I like, if

1025
00:50:27,159 --> 00:50:28,480
you put a gun to my head, I am going

1026
00:50:28,519 --> 00:50:30,840
to say the Clippers because of the Kawhi thing and

1027
00:50:31,320 --> 00:50:37,119
Garland specifically. Also by the way matherin against a Spurs team,

1028
00:50:37,519 --> 00:50:41,760
I think it's interesting because like he can get himself

1029
00:50:41,800 --> 00:50:43,760
to the basket and get himself to the foul line

1030
00:50:43,800 --> 00:50:47,039
against anybody, and if he could come in and draw

1031
00:50:47,119 --> 00:50:50,239
two quick ones on Wimpy, that could swing a thing.

1032
00:50:51,880 --> 00:50:55,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's interesting on Portland because I guess you could.

1033
00:50:56,800 --> 00:50:57,599
Speaker 2: They have a ton of ball.

1034
00:50:57,880 --> 00:50:59,840
Speaker 1: They have a ton of two way ball containment where

1035
00:50:59,840 --> 00:51:01,519
they if you look at the Clippers, if you get

1036
00:51:01,519 --> 00:51:05,079
into the Dereck Jones, Chris Dunn, you're gonna have there's Kawhi.

1037
00:51:05,119 --> 00:51:07,239
Of course you're gonna have questions, maybe more about Okay,

1038
00:51:07,239 --> 00:51:09,519
it looks like they have that on the perimeter. Your

1039
00:51:09,519 --> 00:51:12,360
point about the center stuff is is well taken, for sure.

1040
00:51:12,679 --> 00:51:15,079
I just can't bring myself to think too much about

1041
00:51:15,119 --> 00:51:18,719
Wemby because it just sort of he's this unidents unsolvable

1042
00:51:18,920 --> 00:51:23,840
to me. But yeah, you know, I think I'd probably

1043
00:51:23,840 --> 00:51:26,400
picked the Blazers when I picked the Blazers over the

1044
00:51:26,480 --> 00:51:28,159
Suns when going up against the Spurs.

1045
00:51:28,280 --> 00:51:29,360
Speaker 2: That's a really interesting question.

1046
00:51:29,400 --> 00:51:31,960
Speaker 1: But you know, the Clippers have reached just a higher

1047
00:51:32,000 --> 00:51:34,320
peak than any of these teams, and as you mentioned,

1048
00:51:34,360 --> 00:51:37,440
they have the the superstar and Kawhi Leonder and like

1049
00:51:37,559 --> 00:51:41,199
you could make the case that the pinnacle of Darius

1050
00:51:41,239 --> 00:51:45,840
Garland is better, mart I would the pinnacle of Darren's

1051
00:51:45,840 --> 00:51:48,599
Garden is better offensively than any player on the Blazers.

1052
00:51:49,119 --> 00:51:50,639
As good as Jenny Aby has been for much of

1053
00:51:50,639 --> 00:51:51,880
this season, I don't know when the last time he

1054
00:51:51,920 --> 00:51:52,840
made a three was, but.

1055
00:51:54,679 --> 00:51:56,320
Speaker 2: I think that bodes well for them.

1056
00:51:56,679 --> 00:51:59,519
Speaker 1: But yeah, the you're right when you're looking at the

1057
00:51:59,519 --> 00:52:02,519
Spurs off and them getting downhill, because defending Wemby Yama.

1058
00:52:02,599 --> 00:52:05,639
It's unless you think with Donovan Clinton specifically, that he's

1059
00:52:05,679 --> 00:52:08,320
gonna like is Wemby, Is he gonna turn Wemby into

1060
00:52:08,360 --> 00:52:10,000
he needs to get to his spots and just get

1061
00:52:10,000 --> 00:52:10,559
a shot off.

1062
00:52:10,599 --> 00:52:13,559
Speaker 2: Guy in ways that.

1063
00:52:13,880 --> 00:52:15,840
Speaker 1: Man, you're making me think about the Blazers and that

1064
00:52:16,559 --> 00:52:18,760
in that conversation more than I thought I was going to.

1065
00:52:18,880 --> 00:52:21,119
Speaker 3: I think I'd still mean Clippers, but I do.

1066
00:52:21,960 --> 00:52:24,440
Speaker 2: I do too, But it's only because I think it

1067
00:52:24,480 --> 00:52:27,519
was the combination of the amount of players in Portland

1068
00:52:27,519 --> 00:52:30,480
that could facilitate their own offense, as well as the

1069
00:52:30,480 --> 00:52:33,440
Donovan Klingon angle that I think could be interesting. But

1070
00:52:33,719 --> 00:52:37,079
I mean the fact that we're having a serious discussion

1071
00:52:37,079 --> 00:52:41,239
about this also means that the Western It's ridiculous how

1072
00:52:41,320 --> 00:52:44,360
much deeper there are than the East. When it comes

1073
00:52:44,480 --> 00:52:47,199
like talking about potential, you know, play in teams that

1074
00:52:47,199 --> 00:52:48,840
could actually put up a fight for the Spurs.

1075
00:52:49,760 --> 00:52:52,440
Speaker 1: Well, it's different because I think you could talk yourself

1076
00:52:52,519 --> 00:52:55,119
to more playing teams in the East or underdogs in

1077
00:52:55,159 --> 00:52:57,519
the East putting up a fight in a playoff series.

1078
00:52:57,519 --> 00:53:00,400
But that's just because the Spurs and the thunder now

1079
00:53:00,519 --> 00:53:03,440
feel so untouchable, right, Yeah, in the West where the

1080
00:53:03,440 --> 00:53:06,960
Pistons and the Celtics, just in part because of Tatum

1081
00:53:06,960 --> 00:53:07,960
and Cunningham, they do.

1082
00:53:07,880 --> 00:53:10,000
Speaker 2: Feel a little bit more quote unquote touchable.

1083
00:53:10,679 --> 00:53:13,960
Speaker 1: So we close with this then more before getting to

1084
00:53:14,320 --> 00:53:18,199
some of the tanking stuff. Who is your single most

1085
00:53:18,280 --> 00:53:20,360
dangerous NBA underdog?

1086
00:53:21,480 --> 00:53:25,039
Speaker 2: Are we splitting this into East West? Or is that

1087
00:53:25,199 --> 00:53:29,559
just why? Okay? Cool? Yeah? Well then I think it's

1088
00:53:29,559 --> 00:53:32,760
almost unfair to call the Hornets an underdog given how

1089
00:53:32,800 --> 00:53:35,639
they played recently. But like they're the tenth seed, so

1090
00:53:35,800 --> 00:53:38,960
like by default they're the underdog, so.

1091
00:53:39,519 --> 00:53:42,519
Speaker 1: They're also not a top ten like tile odds team, Well,

1092
00:53:42,519 --> 00:53:43,880
they would still be an underdog.

1093
00:53:44,159 --> 00:53:47,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, So the Hornets in in the Eastern Conference for

1094
00:53:47,920 --> 00:53:51,599
damn sure, and can't they have the eighth seeds? So

1095
00:53:51,760 --> 00:53:53,800
like the Clippers, I'm going to go with the Clippers

1096
00:53:53,840 --> 00:53:56,920
in the West. But I mean, it would have been

1097
00:53:56,920 --> 00:53:59,760
a little bit fun if they had been like lower ranked,

1098
00:53:59,760 --> 00:54:02,199
because at least they're higher up in the in the

1099
00:54:02,199 --> 00:54:02,840
playing ranking.

1100
00:54:04,559 --> 00:54:06,960
Speaker 1: Do you when we see so, I think I agree

1101
00:54:07,000 --> 00:54:10,159
with you. I would go Hornets and Clippers. I think

1102
00:54:10,239 --> 00:54:13,840
the Hawks probably deserve honorable mention with the with the

1103
00:54:13,840 --> 00:54:16,039
main they're probably second for me there, but you would

1104
00:54:16,039 --> 00:54:19,559
have the Raptors above the Hawks. She said, right, Oh yeah,

1105
00:54:19,960 --> 00:54:21,960
where does Philip You have the Raptors above No?

1106
00:54:22,079 --> 00:54:24,039
Speaker 2: Sorry, no, no, no, I had the Hawks over the Raptors.

1107
00:54:24,840 --> 00:54:27,000
Oh you have the Hawks over the rap Sorry I misunderstood.

1108
00:54:27,639 --> 00:54:35,440
Do you have the Raptors over Philly? M I mean

1109
00:54:35,559 --> 00:54:38,440
you promised it wouldn't be thinking, uh involved when you

1110
00:54:38,559 --> 00:54:43,559
invited me. Uh god, that's a difficult one. I no,

1111
00:54:43,679 --> 00:54:47,320
I'm gonna go Philly. I'm gonna go phil Raptors. Yeah,

1112
00:54:47,679 --> 00:54:50,400
but I hear you. I I it's not because like

1113
00:54:50,480 --> 00:54:53,360
I stand on firm ground on this one, and I'm like, no,

1114
00:54:53,440 --> 00:54:56,079
it's absolutely this. I'm gonna go Philly. And that's just

1115
00:54:56,079 --> 00:54:56,719
a gut feeling.

1116
00:54:57,519 --> 00:54:59,960
Speaker 1: The Raptors kind of feel like a more dynamic man

1117
00:55:00,280 --> 00:55:03,239
team from last year because there's more offensive dynamism there.

1118
00:55:03,239 --> 00:55:05,119
But you still have some of the same right space

1119
00:55:05,159 --> 00:55:07,519
and concerns. And I trust their defense in a way

1120
00:55:07,559 --> 00:55:10,159
I don't with Orlando's right now, and I don't know

1121
00:55:10,159 --> 00:55:11,440
where Miami fits and all is.

1122
00:55:11,480 --> 00:55:13,880
Speaker 2: I just don't trust them as they might be.

1123
00:55:14,360 --> 00:55:16,960
Speaker 1: I think they'd be the last team I'd probably trust

1124
00:55:17,039 --> 00:55:19,119
Philly more than I would trust Miami.

1125
00:55:19,199 --> 00:55:22,079
Speaker 2: I just can't get a good read on this team.

1126
00:55:22,199 --> 00:55:25,239
I've called them so many in so many games here

1127
00:55:25,400 --> 00:55:27,880
and are called so many of their games this year.

1128
00:55:30,000 --> 00:55:34,320
It's the inconsistency is ridiculous for someone at least the

1129
00:55:34,800 --> 00:55:37,280
league in pace, like it's the quickest team in the NBA.

1130
00:55:38,119 --> 00:55:41,320
Their results are just so up and down, and it's

1131
00:55:41,480 --> 00:55:43,639
it's extremely difficult to get a read on them. So

1132
00:55:43,679 --> 00:55:47,039
I agree with you, and it feels like that's why

1133
00:55:47,119 --> 00:55:49,519
you can't trust them. Like their defense is fine, it's

1134
00:55:49,559 --> 00:55:53,320
not elite, it's fine, and then their offense can vary

1135
00:55:53,360 --> 00:55:57,000
from oh shit, Bam goes for eighty three to not

1136
00:55:57,199 --> 00:56:03,239
a single player on the roster can crack eighteen. It's yeah,

1137
00:56:03,280 --> 00:56:07,480
it's not something I dare put up a rink.

1138
00:56:08,400 --> 00:56:11,760
Speaker 1: They're the player who typifies everything that they are. To

1139
00:56:11,800 --> 00:56:14,320
me is khalil Ware, because depending on the game or

1140
00:56:14,320 --> 00:56:17,920
the day, I feel so confident in what he could become.

1141
00:56:18,039 --> 00:56:20,599
And then I find myself on other nights with like, oh,

1142
00:56:20,599 --> 00:56:22,679
they're going to hitch their wagon to this guy in

1143
00:56:22,719 --> 00:56:25,519
any way, shape or form, Like I don't know what

1144
00:56:25,800 --> 00:56:28,440
kohlil Ware's highest end outcome is at this point, I

1145
00:56:28,519 --> 00:56:30,400
vast laid between that, like that could be a start. Oh,

1146
00:56:30,480 --> 00:56:32,880
he's never going to even be close to a net

1147
00:56:32,880 --> 00:56:33,960
positive on defense.

1148
00:56:34,679 --> 00:56:36,840
Speaker 2: I still have hope. He's so young, it takes peak.

1149
00:56:36,960 --> 00:56:38,119
It's not that I don't have hope.

1150
00:56:37,880 --> 00:56:40,840
Speaker 1: It's just he's to me, he's sort of just again

1151
00:56:40,880 --> 00:56:43,599
he embodies everything that heat are. It's just there's such

1152
00:56:43,639 --> 00:56:47,039
these for me. Optically, there are just these wild swings.

1153
00:56:47,039 --> 00:56:48,880
It feels like from game to game.

1154
00:56:49,000 --> 00:56:52,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I don't disagree. Let's talk a.

1155
00:56:52,760 --> 00:56:57,559
Speaker 1: Little bit about the NBPA has their own tanking.

1156
00:56:57,239 --> 00:56:58,840
Speaker 2: Solutions that are out there.

1157
00:56:59,559 --> 00:57:03,079
Speaker 1: It was orded by Jake Fisher of the Styline, and

1158
00:57:03,440 --> 00:57:07,280
I'll go through it here, he wrote. The MBPA is

1159
00:57:07,320 --> 00:57:10,599
proposing a three prong approach to the league's ongoing tanking

1160
00:57:10,639 --> 00:57:15,360
slash draft lottery reform discussion, which would first financially reward

1161
00:57:15,400 --> 00:57:20,079
wins and penalize losses, second flattened lottery odds, and third

1162
00:57:20,280 --> 00:57:25,440
strictly enforced meaningful penalties. The union has suggested distributing national

1163
00:57:25,480 --> 00:57:30,440
TV revenue tied to regular season team performance and conference seating,

1164
00:57:30,880 --> 00:57:33,440
similar to the English Premier League, where each higher seed

1165
00:57:33,440 --> 00:57:36,639
would earn an additional ten million dollars of TV revenue.

1166
00:57:36,960 --> 00:57:40,719
That's Prong one, Prong two. In addition to the flattening

1167
00:57:40,800 --> 00:57:43,760
of the lottery odds and expanding the lottery to eighteen teams,

1168
00:57:44,159 --> 00:57:47,239
the MBPA is proposing odds to the league's bottom ten

1169
00:57:47,280 --> 00:57:49,800
teams so they don't make the playoffs, or the plan

1170
00:57:50,199 --> 00:57:52,920
should be flattened to seven percent instead of eight percent,

1171
00:57:53,320 --> 00:57:56,280
and the remaining eight should be at three point seventy

1172
00:57:56,360 --> 00:57:59,639
five percent, all of landing the number one pick and

1173
00:57:59,679 --> 00:58:03,000
then the final prong. The Union and other league figures

1174
00:58:03,000 --> 00:58:06,760
are pushing to employ additional penalties to punish blankant tanking,

1175
00:58:07,079 --> 00:58:09,880
such as reducing a team's lottery odds, moving their pick

1176
00:58:09,920 --> 00:58:11,840
to the end of the lottery or the first round,

1177
00:58:12,159 --> 00:58:15,760
or stripping them of their first round selection. Before I

1178
00:58:15,800 --> 00:58:17,079
throw it to you, I just want to say one

1179
00:58:17,119 --> 00:58:20,440
thing off the bat. That last prong is a complete

1180
00:58:20,480 --> 00:58:23,400
non stot starter for me. Because of how selective the

1181
00:58:23,519 --> 00:58:27,880
NBA is at enforcing its current player petition policy or

1182
00:58:27,920 --> 00:58:30,119
when it comes to finding teams, I just wouldn't trust

1183
00:58:30,400 --> 00:58:32,920
there would be any uniform approach. But other than that,

1184
00:58:34,199 --> 00:58:36,840
knowing the backstory of what the league has also proposed,

1185
00:58:37,199 --> 00:58:39,559
and this seems to tie in with the league's first proposal,

1186
00:58:39,800 --> 00:58:43,039
where it was eighteen teams in the lottery, eight percent

1187
00:58:43,079 --> 00:58:47,880
for the bottom ten, and then the other eight split

1188
00:58:47,920 --> 00:58:50,400
the remaining twenty percent. These just futs with those numbers

1189
00:58:50,400 --> 00:58:52,119
a little bit. But what do you think of kind

1190
00:58:52,159 --> 00:58:54,840
of the player's unions approach to this.

1191
00:58:55,800 --> 00:58:58,679
Speaker 2: I mean, they're responding to something which I think, to

1192
00:58:58,719 --> 00:59:02,280
begin with is pretty essence, but we've been through that before.

1193
00:59:02,440 --> 00:59:07,400
I think they're trying to limit the potential damage that

1194
00:59:07,440 --> 00:59:10,119
could be made here if they're going to go the

1195
00:59:10,199 --> 00:59:13,480
route like they kind of moved off the first suggestion

1196
00:59:13,840 --> 00:59:17,280
that the league came with with the eighteen teams involved

1197
00:59:17,280 --> 00:59:19,960
in the lottery, Like, okay, and if you want the

1198
00:59:19,960 --> 00:59:25,519
flat odds, sure, I just I don't think people you

1199
00:59:25,599 --> 00:59:28,039
and I were talking about this before we started recording, Like,

1200
00:59:28,519 --> 00:59:31,920
I don't think people understand just the sheer shenanigans that

1201
00:59:31,960 --> 00:59:35,840
would go on in that setting like that. It would

1202
00:59:35,880 --> 00:59:40,800
be so difficult for bad teams and ethically bad teams,

1203
00:59:40,840 --> 00:59:43,239
by the way, because nowadays, if you're a bad team,

1204
00:59:43,280 --> 00:59:47,719
apparently you have to be what do you go like

1205
00:59:48,320 --> 00:59:51,480
you have to be thrown for the wolves because you can't, apparently,

1206
00:59:51,480 --> 00:59:53,760
be ethically bad. You can't be bad just by having

1207
00:59:53,800 --> 00:59:57,039
injuries or a bad roster. No, no, no, it all

1208
00:59:57,079 --> 01:00:02,719
has to be by intent now apparently, But it's how

1209
01:00:02,760 --> 01:00:07,800
are teams going to even even get a remote good

1210
01:00:07,880 --> 01:00:12,639
chance of returning to respectability? Is kind of where I'm left.

1211
01:00:13,320 --> 01:00:16,679
Look the financially rewarding wins and panalizing lossers, Let's just

1212
01:00:16,719 --> 01:00:19,000
take that aside, because that's that's not here or there

1213
01:00:19,079 --> 01:00:22,320
in terms of just the tanking structure or sorry, the

1214
01:00:22,360 --> 01:00:27,440
lottery structure. Isn't the entire point of the draft to

1215
01:00:27,719 --> 01:00:30,400
give bad teams a chance to be good? Again? Isn't

1216
01:00:30,440 --> 01:00:35,400
that a fucking tool to actually try for the So

1217
01:00:35,440 --> 01:00:37,880
why are we tingering with this to this extent? Why

1218
01:00:37,960 --> 01:00:42,800
are we flattening odds so possible good teams like could

1219
01:00:42,880 --> 01:00:45,440
come in. Let's say a good team has a bad year,

1220
01:00:45,559 --> 01:00:47,800
they have a shits one of injuries. Okay, Then all

1221
01:00:47,840 --> 01:00:50,840
of a sudden, they have the same percentage as as

1222
01:00:50,840 --> 01:00:54,639
a team that's fundamentally or ethically however you want to

1223
01:00:54,679 --> 01:00:57,599
call it bad, And then the good team ends up

1224
01:00:57,639 --> 01:01:00,559
with the number one pick like okay, Oklahoma's thunder. It

1225
01:01:00,800 --> 01:01:06,599
just for argument's sake, Well, yeah.

1226
01:01:05,639 --> 01:01:08,039
Speaker 1: They wouldn't be involved in the actual lottery, but yeah,

1227
01:01:08,039 --> 01:01:13,280
to your point, yeah, I mean it. So I will

1228
01:01:13,280 --> 01:01:15,639
say kind of the first scenario where it's whether it's

1229
01:01:15,639 --> 01:01:19,679
seven percent or eight percent from an entertainment product perspective,

1230
01:01:20,360 --> 01:01:22,679
I prefer that to the system now because we've seen

1231
01:01:22,679 --> 01:01:26,800
some pretty god awful basketball yeah this year. That being said,

1232
01:01:26,960 --> 01:01:29,199
I'm with you in the sense that I don't know

1233
01:01:29,239 --> 01:01:32,440
if you're like one, you're kind of shifting some of

1234
01:01:32,480 --> 01:01:35,679
the tanking parameters, especially if I know the scenarios where

1235
01:01:35,679 --> 01:01:38,280
you're gonna wait multi year records. I don't love that,

1236
01:01:38,800 --> 01:01:43,519
but this specifically you do, whether like whether it's unintended

1237
01:01:43,599 --> 01:01:47,039
or intended, it's gonna take certain teams longer to climb

1238
01:01:47,400 --> 01:01:50,000
out of the hole that they're thrust into because a

1239
01:01:50,000 --> 01:01:52,639
lot of these teams they're not gonna No one really

1240
01:01:52,639 --> 01:01:55,599
signs free agents anymore, to be fair, but you're not

1241
01:01:55,719 --> 01:01:59,639
gonna make good like it's it's so rare that we

1242
01:01:59,760 --> 01:02:02,039
see what the Wizards or the Jazz did where they

1243
01:02:02,079 --> 01:02:04,920
trade for these stars before being able to identify, hey,

1244
01:02:04,960 --> 01:02:08,000
we have our tent pole player of the future. The

1245
01:02:08,079 --> 01:02:10,920
Jazz are certainly closer because of the the Ace Bailey

1246
01:02:11,000 --> 01:02:14,039
Lowry market in Keante George plus this year's.

1247
01:02:13,800 --> 01:02:17,199
Speaker 2: Pick of it all. I just I don't know.

1248
01:02:17,239 --> 01:02:21,840
Speaker 1: I also don't know what this does to like traded picks,

1249
01:02:22,000 --> 01:02:24,719
because just all of a sudden, like being a bottom

1250
01:02:24,800 --> 01:02:26,800
ten team, like you could be a team that has

1251
01:02:26,800 --> 01:02:30,039
the twenty first like you write twenty first in record

1252
01:02:30,320 --> 01:02:32,639
And I'm just using a probability calculator here. If you

1253
01:02:32,679 --> 01:02:34,920
have an eight percent chance the number one pick, but

1254
01:02:35,000 --> 01:02:38,119
they're doing the lottery for all eighteen picks, that's a

1255
01:02:38,159 --> 01:02:40,440
thirty four percent chance that you've all of a sudden

1256
01:02:40,480 --> 01:02:43,280
given up a top five pick, and like that, I'm

1257
01:02:43,320 --> 01:02:46,039
curious how that would impact the transaction market. Well we

1258
01:02:46,119 --> 01:02:49,760
see more pick protections because they haven't talked about reading

1259
01:02:49,800 --> 01:02:53,440
that out as well. There's also Mark Stein and said

1260
01:02:53,440 --> 01:02:57,440
that there's worry that they're gonna make it too confusing

1261
01:02:57,679 --> 01:03:01,440
for fans to digest, which I think some people will

1262
01:03:01,840 --> 01:03:04,519
like kind of scoff at, But I do believe it

1263
01:03:04,599 --> 01:03:07,559
matters because the whole Apron stuff. Just as someone who

1264
01:03:07,599 --> 01:03:09,599
has to write about trades and people who get mad

1265
01:03:09,639 --> 01:03:12,519
at them or come with me a proposals, that's already

1266
01:03:12,719 --> 01:03:16,079
kind of like taking it above and beyond what the

1267
01:03:16,119 --> 01:03:19,280
fan threshold for critical thinking should be in my book,

1268
01:03:20,079 --> 01:03:24,000
I have yet to see even if I even though

1269
01:03:24,000 --> 01:03:27,480
I slightly prefer the whole eighteen team lottery eight percent

1270
01:03:27,559 --> 01:03:30,199
chance to what we're seeing now. That's really just from

1271
01:03:30,199 --> 01:03:33,880
an entertainment product perspective, but from a feasibility like looking

1272
01:03:33,960 --> 01:03:35,920
at how the league would go on from here, especially

1273
01:03:35,920 --> 01:03:38,360
when you're adding two more teams in. I just don't

1274
01:03:38,400 --> 01:03:41,039
know how realistic that is, And I find myself wondering,

1275
01:03:41,679 --> 01:03:45,559
why do not like all of these proposals seem to

1276
01:03:45,719 --> 01:03:48,320
emphasize we need to figure out a way to minimize

1277
01:03:48,400 --> 01:03:50,840
losing rather than incentivize winning.

1278
01:03:51,360 --> 01:03:52,800
Speaker 2: If that makes sense, you've yet to like.

1279
01:03:52,840 --> 01:03:56,679
Speaker 1: The most persuasive argument might be the Players Association saying

1280
01:03:57,440 --> 01:04:00,480
the national TV revenue you should get a boost, like

1281
01:04:00,519 --> 01:04:02,960
depending on where your record is. But even then you're

1282
01:04:03,039 --> 01:04:05,239
I guess you're setting a floor if you want to

1283
01:04:05,280 --> 01:04:05,880
set that up.

1284
01:04:06,280 --> 01:04:08,119
Speaker 2: This is just I kind of.

1285
01:04:08,079 --> 01:04:11,000
Speaker 1: Thought that there would be more official proposals or a push.

1286
01:04:11,159 --> 01:04:15,440
How do we actively incentivize teams to win, not minimize

1287
01:04:15,440 --> 01:04:18,239
their incentive to lose because they're still gonna be Grant

1288
01:04:18,239 --> 01:04:20,199
and I talked about this more. If it's eight percent

1289
01:04:20,280 --> 01:04:22,639
or seven percent and you have a chance to be

1290
01:04:22,719 --> 01:04:25,000
the sixth seed, you might pivot out of being the

1291
01:04:25,000 --> 01:04:27,880
six seed just to like fall into the play in, yeah,

1292
01:04:28,079 --> 01:04:29,760
or or you might fall out of the play in

1293
01:04:29,800 --> 01:04:31,079
so that goad. I don't really want to be in

1294
01:04:31,119 --> 01:04:32,800
the plane. I'd rather have an eight or seven percent

1295
01:04:32,880 --> 01:04:35,039
chance at or not even that. I'd rather have a

1296
01:04:35,119 --> 01:04:37,280
thirty four percent chance of getting a top five pick

1297
01:04:37,360 --> 01:04:40,039
than entering the play into what that's gonna be a decision.

1298
01:04:40,599 --> 01:04:42,400
You know, if people were complaining about what the MAVs

1299
01:04:42,400 --> 01:04:45,079
did that year to keep their own pick, that's I

1300
01:04:45,119 --> 01:04:47,039
think that's probably gonna happen a lot more often if

1301
01:04:47,039 --> 01:04:48,719
we shift to this approach.

1302
01:04:49,000 --> 01:04:52,320
Speaker 2: I would be inclined to agree. And to your point,

1303
01:04:52,440 --> 01:04:56,960
or rather Stein's point, the fact that it is convoluted.

1304
01:04:57,000 --> 01:04:59,719
I wrote about this over at Yahoo as well when

1305
01:05:00,119 --> 01:05:03,519
the League came out with their idea and their proposals.

1306
01:05:04,519 --> 01:05:08,960
It is actually pretty important that fans understand what's going on, because,

1307
01:05:09,079 --> 01:05:13,159
like you said, the Aprons has really made it difficult

1308
01:05:13,159 --> 01:05:15,800
for fans to actually understand the entire free agency process

1309
01:05:15,960 --> 01:05:21,400
or trades or rules. I mean, I've read so many

1310
01:05:21,400 --> 01:05:24,719
people basically said, look, I gave up at the first aprint,

1311
01:05:24,760 --> 01:05:27,559
like I can't be involved right now. And it's just

1312
01:05:27,719 --> 01:05:31,480
led to a lot of confusion. And is that a

1313
01:05:31,480 --> 01:05:35,960
way to connect to the product? No, it's alienating your product.

1314
01:05:36,199 --> 01:05:38,320
And this is where the fact that the league is

1315
01:05:38,360 --> 01:05:41,840
a league of lawyers comes in and is an hindrance. Outright,

1316
01:05:43,800 --> 01:05:47,039
this isn't about basketball to me. This is, like you said,

1317
01:05:47,039 --> 01:05:50,679
this is about penalizing certain behavior and then everyone else

1318
01:05:50,719 --> 01:05:54,480
has to put the bill. And it's dumb and it's unnecessary.

1319
01:05:54,840 --> 01:05:58,800
And I'm going to repeat myself for the eighteenth time

1320
01:05:58,920 --> 01:06:03,559
on this is because we ran in to a three

1321
01:06:03,840 --> 01:06:08,440
drafts over four year period twenty three, twenty five, and

1322
01:06:08,559 --> 01:06:12,960
twenty six where there are just a shit ton of talent,

1323
01:06:13,119 --> 01:06:15,760
like top tier level talent. Of course teams are going

1324
01:06:15,760 --> 01:06:18,840
to go after that. Guess what, man, they didn't tank

1325
01:06:18,880 --> 01:06:21,159
in twenty four. They're not going to tank in twenty seven,

1326
01:06:21,199 --> 01:06:23,800
which might actually be a worse draft than twenty four.

1327
01:06:25,199 --> 01:06:27,800
And it seems like the league is responding to the

1328
01:06:27,840 --> 01:06:30,679
bad basketball being played in years where there are these

1329
01:06:30,880 --> 01:06:37,199
franchise altering players available. How could they not see that

1330
01:06:37,320 --> 01:06:39,960
and just go hey, look we get it, and when

1331
01:06:40,000 --> 01:06:43,559
those players come in, those organizations will get them are

1332
01:06:43,599 --> 01:06:45,920
actually going to get better. I mean, look, okay, this

1333
01:06:46,000 --> 01:06:49,800
first tank for Wemby, are we calling them unethical at

1334
01:06:49,840 --> 01:06:53,280
this point? I'm sure some people are. There are other

1335
01:06:53,320 --> 01:06:56,800
teams doing it, okay, but are we hearing the league

1336
01:06:56,840 --> 01:07:01,480
being complaining about how this has come a championship contender

1337
01:07:01,880 --> 01:07:05,840
over the like in under three years? No right?

1338
01:07:06,599 --> 01:07:09,960
Speaker 1: And also what you do by rewarding the worst teams

1339
01:07:10,000 --> 01:07:13,159
in theory, and I'm not pretending tanking is an issue.

1340
01:07:13,199 --> 01:07:15,960
I want to make that clear. And like so there

1341
01:07:16,039 --> 01:07:17,760
used to just sort of be what felt like this

1342
01:07:17,960 --> 01:07:21,800
unspoken rule that you weren't that this wasn't like it happened,

1343
01:07:22,119 --> 01:07:24,039
but it didn't seem as prevalent. But I think as

1344
01:07:24,079 --> 01:07:26,039
the league you mentioned it, it's a league of lawyers.

1345
01:07:26,119 --> 01:07:28,920
Or you're just looking at the people they have behind

1346
01:07:28,960 --> 01:07:30,239
the scene, in front offices.

1347
01:07:30,480 --> 01:07:31,599
Speaker 2: There are just more people.

1348
01:07:32,000 --> 01:07:34,239
Speaker 1: There's like people have gotten smarter when you look at

1349
01:07:34,280 --> 01:07:36,679
the way that people call it the you know, the

1350
01:07:36,719 --> 01:07:38,800
nerds ruined the NBA, But it's a lot of just

1351
01:07:39,440 --> 01:07:41,559
like we've moved beyond oh three is more than two

1352
01:07:41,679 --> 01:07:44,920
type of discussions. The league is just smarter in the aggregate,

1353
01:07:45,320 --> 01:07:47,639
and so that these approaches. You know, you could blame

1354
01:07:47,679 --> 01:07:50,719
San Hanky for maybe like an extremist approach and bringing

1355
01:07:50,719 --> 01:07:53,280
that to the forefront, but as the league is evolved,

1356
01:07:53,679 --> 01:07:54,519
it's gotten smarter.

1357
01:07:54,639 --> 01:07:57,199
Speaker 2: And so there are these teams and I think any

1358
01:07:57,239 --> 01:07:58,239
team in any.

1359
01:07:58,039 --> 01:08:00,840
Speaker 1: Market, with the exception of a couple, are just going

1360
01:08:00,840 --> 01:08:05,119
to say, our best chance of being a sustainable threat

1361
01:08:05,920 --> 01:08:09,320
in this league is to get a transcendent player, the

1362
01:08:09,360 --> 01:08:13,199
best player on a title contender or fringe title contender material.

1363
01:08:13,280 --> 01:08:14,920
How do you get that player? What's the best way

1364
01:08:14,960 --> 01:08:18,680
of getting that player for any team? It's the draft.

1365
01:08:18,840 --> 01:08:20,520
With the way that free agencies up, there might be

1366
01:08:20,520 --> 01:08:23,840
more teams that are more confident in trading for that

1367
01:08:23,880 --> 01:08:26,880
player first, how do you And the Spurs would be

1368
01:08:26,920 --> 01:08:30,000
a good example of Okay, yes they they tang to

1369
01:08:30,039 --> 01:08:32,720
get Wemby, but look at how that accelerated their timeline

1370
01:08:32,720 --> 01:08:34,840
and what did they do after that? They got more

1371
01:08:34,880 --> 01:08:38,119
aggressive and went after they made the d'aron Fox trade.

1372
01:08:38,359 --> 01:08:40,159
So and then yes they got lottery luck when it

1373
01:08:40,239 --> 01:08:43,239
came to landing Dylan Harper. That wasn't necessarily part of

1374
01:08:43,279 --> 01:08:47,079
the calculus, So I don't on it. I don't know

1375
01:08:47,119 --> 01:08:49,600
what the answer is because but I will say that

1376
01:08:49,640 --> 01:08:51,640
I do think there's a lot of unintended consequences to

1377
01:08:51,680 --> 01:08:54,199
some of the proposals here that probably aren't being given

1378
01:08:54,680 --> 01:08:58,359
enough consideration. With all of that said, though, based on

1379
01:08:58,399 --> 01:09:00,760
what you're saying, do you like you just wouldn't make

1380
01:09:00,800 --> 01:09:02,520
any changes to the system.

1381
01:09:03,840 --> 01:09:07,159
Speaker 2: No, No, I wouldn't pick up. But also I don't mind

1382
01:09:07,239 --> 01:09:10,560
the tanking part. I just don't. I think again, the

1383
01:09:10,680 --> 01:09:15,079
league has removed so many things recently, or well, some

1384
01:09:15,159 --> 01:09:16,840
of it hasn't really been the league, that has just

1385
01:09:16,880 --> 01:09:18,840
been organic. But let's take a look at it. Because

1386
01:09:18,840 --> 01:09:23,840
I wrote about this over yeahoo some time ago. Free

1387
01:09:23,880 --> 01:09:27,640
agency has more or less died in terms of like

1388
01:09:27,640 --> 01:09:30,399
getting the real stars out there. Stars are preferring to

1389
01:09:30,439 --> 01:09:33,039
sign extensions and then request the trade if they want

1390
01:09:33,079 --> 01:09:35,720
to move on, right, So like you're not gonna find

1391
01:09:36,159 --> 01:09:38,680
you know, a prime Lebron James and free agency anymore,

1392
01:09:38,800 --> 01:09:42,039
that's just not a thing that happens. So the free

1393
01:09:42,039 --> 01:09:44,600
agency angle in terms of getting that guy you spoke

1394
01:09:44,600 --> 01:09:48,600
about just before gone, it's dead, all right. Now you're

1395
01:09:48,640 --> 01:09:51,359
tinking with the draft, all right. That means you can't

1396
01:09:51,439 --> 01:09:53,960
really build through the draft anymore, at least not in

1397
01:09:54,000 --> 01:09:57,239
a way where you can predict certain you know, placements,

1398
01:09:57,520 --> 01:09:59,920
and you might get panalized if the league deems you're

1399
01:10:00,119 --> 01:10:03,399
doing something that's unethical. So like you can't really plan

1400
01:10:03,520 --> 01:10:07,039
to build through the draft anymore. Okay. That is two

1401
01:10:07,239 --> 01:10:11,520
of the three main principles of roster constructions. That have

1402
01:10:11,640 --> 01:10:15,439
like three tools that have been removed that have been

1403
01:10:15,479 --> 01:10:19,840
the pillars of the NBA roster construction for fifty sixty

1404
01:10:19,920 --> 01:10:24,159
seventy years. Now, by the way, just so we don't

1405
01:10:24,159 --> 01:10:28,079
forget that, we're left with one pillar that is trades. Okay,

1406
01:10:28,960 --> 01:10:31,880
this is where it gets difficult because the Apron system

1407
01:10:32,079 --> 01:10:35,520
what did that, oh right, that fucked up trades, that

1408
01:10:35,680 --> 01:10:37,600
messed up the trade past.

1409
01:10:37,640 --> 01:10:39,640
Speaker 1: I also don't think that I don't think the flattened

1410
01:10:39,640 --> 01:10:43,439
odds would help trade markets either, because I like, let's

1411
01:10:43,479 --> 01:10:46,920
just use let's use the Knicks example with McHale bridges.

1412
01:10:47,199 --> 01:10:49,800
When you're looking at those outyears on some of those picks,

1413
01:10:49,840 --> 01:10:51,960
the twenty twenty eight swap, the twenty twenty nine first,

1414
01:10:51,960 --> 01:10:55,479
the twenty thirty one's first specifically, there's a like, let's

1415
01:10:55,479 --> 01:10:57,880
look at twenty twenty nine to twenty thirty one. Forget

1416
01:10:57,920 --> 01:10:59,680
about them being a bottom ten teen. Isn't there a

1417
01:10:59,720 --> 01:11:02,279
chance that they could there feasibly be just a playing

1418
01:11:02,319 --> 01:11:05,960
team by that point, And so you're in that scenario

1419
01:11:06,000 --> 01:11:07,399
you were baking on all like, we may have to

1420
01:11:07,439 --> 01:11:11,159
give up like a pick that's twenty or seventeen.

1421
01:11:11,279 --> 01:11:12,439
Speaker 2: But if you make this change.

1422
01:11:12,560 --> 01:11:15,720
Speaker 1: Let's use the players Union one as an example where

1423
01:11:15,720 --> 01:11:18,439
they flattened it to what for playing teams to it

1424
01:11:18,479 --> 01:11:21,760
was three point seventy five. Now all of a sudden, it's, oh,

1425
01:11:22,119 --> 01:11:24,840
a seventeen point four percent chance that we gave up

1426
01:11:24,880 --> 01:11:28,079
a top five pick. I think that you're gonna see

1427
01:11:28,159 --> 01:11:31,640
less or fewer swings of that. And then that's not

1428
01:11:31,680 --> 01:11:34,319
to say like there will still be bad trades, but

1429
01:11:34,359 --> 01:11:37,439
I similar to the way that some of the extension

1430
01:11:37,520 --> 01:11:40,600
rules changes and and just the aprons and stuff, feels

1431
01:11:40,600 --> 01:11:43,319
like they have neutered free agency, I think some of

1432
01:11:43,359 --> 01:11:46,800
this stuff with the lottery will do something similar to

1433
01:11:46,840 --> 01:11:49,359
the trade market. Maybe maybe that's fine for some people,

1434
01:11:49,399 --> 01:11:53,000
but the NBA is very much built at least a

1435
01:11:53,079 --> 01:11:56,039
chunk of its legacy on their transaction cycle, the trade

1436
01:11:56,079 --> 01:11:59,319
deadline in the offseason, or some of the highest interest

1437
01:11:59,319 --> 01:12:01,439
points of the year right next to you know, maybe

1438
01:12:01,520 --> 01:12:03,760
opening night and of course the playoffs.

1439
01:12:03,359 --> 01:12:07,319
Speaker 2: Right and at the end of the day, if you

1440
01:12:07,439 --> 01:12:12,159
are giving fewer and fewer tools to teams to construct

1441
01:12:12,199 --> 01:12:16,039
a roster with, what are they left with. They are

1442
01:12:16,199 --> 01:12:20,279
left with the manipulation of the system, meaning they are

1443
01:12:20,319 --> 01:12:23,720
going to go to the very most extreme thinking they

1444
01:12:23,760 --> 01:12:26,720
can within the perimeters of the rules, in order to

1445
01:12:26,840 --> 01:12:29,560
improve and to get better. And then the league is

1446
01:12:29,600 --> 01:12:33,000
going to say, oh, no, that is not how it's intended.

1447
01:12:33,079 --> 01:12:36,960
It's unethical, And then that box keeps growing smaller or

1448
01:12:37,079 --> 01:12:42,079
scaling down smaller. I am worried that the tinker, the

1449
01:12:42,359 --> 01:12:45,920
constant tingering, is a problem. Like I respect Adam Siller

1450
01:12:46,000 --> 01:12:48,800
for thinking outside the box. That is something that I

1451
01:12:48,800 --> 01:12:52,119
will never like get off my soapbox about, because I

1452
01:12:52,159 --> 01:12:56,119
do appreciate someone being willing to try something new. But

1453
01:12:56,399 --> 01:13:01,479
now it's become an issue where teams can even interest

1454
01:13:01,479 --> 01:13:04,439
season or sorry, enter into a summer and go, yeah,

1455
01:13:04,479 --> 01:13:08,000
I have the three pillars. What pillar do you honestly

1456
01:13:08,039 --> 01:13:11,159
have left? Oh and by the way, let's just let's

1457
01:13:11,199 --> 01:13:15,000
just let's not ignore the whole concept that they even

1458
01:13:15,279 --> 01:13:18,079
oh yeah, we gave them a twenty percent increase in

1459
01:13:18,119 --> 01:13:20,760
the one hundred and forty percent rule. But like seams

1460
01:13:20,800 --> 01:13:25,479
can't even keep their own guys if they're on veteran extensions,

1461
01:13:25,560 --> 01:13:28,319
Like they can't. They have to trade those guys for

1462
01:13:28,439 --> 01:13:31,640
fucking peanuts because they can't even keep their guys who

1463
01:13:31,880 --> 01:13:37,640
they drafted. It's to me, we're looking at a major

1464
01:13:37,680 --> 01:13:43,399
like roster construction recession, and it's a problem. It's a problem.

1465
01:13:44,199 --> 01:13:45,920
Speaker 1: And yet, I mean, the other thing is they've given

1466
01:13:46,000 --> 01:13:49,119
team owners tons of excuses to kind of cheap out now.

1467
01:13:49,159 --> 01:13:51,720
But the other thing that they've also done by implementing

1468
01:13:51,720 --> 01:13:55,880
these changes, I'm with you. I appreciate hashtag try yeah stuff,

1469
01:13:56,239 --> 01:13:58,840
But if you're built you mentioned the roster construction recession,

1470
01:13:59,159 --> 01:14:01,880
I don't know how you we're already working with would

1471
01:14:01,880 --> 01:14:05,520
feel like very expedited timelines, where these competitive life cycles

1472
01:14:05,560 --> 01:14:07,359
they change on a whim, even when it feels like

1473
01:14:07,399 --> 01:14:10,960
they're set up to just go on for like the thunder.

1474
01:14:11,079 --> 01:14:13,159
I'm not saying this is gonna happen. They just seem

1475
01:14:13,199 --> 01:14:16,600
like they're set for the next decade. If history is

1476
01:14:16,640 --> 01:14:19,600
any indication there's something's gonna happen that kind of throws

1477
01:14:19,640 --> 01:14:22,720
that for a whirl. And because it's happened so many

1478
01:14:22,920 --> 01:14:24,760
remember the Nets. What happened with the Nets. We've seen

1479
01:14:24,800 --> 01:14:27,039
it happen with the Lakers, even the Celtics. When you

1480
01:14:27,079 --> 01:14:29,600
throw in the look I didn't see them coming this season,

1481
01:14:29,600 --> 01:14:31,920
but you throw that Jason Tatum injury into the equation

1482
01:14:32,319 --> 01:14:34,560
and look at the roster trend that they went through.

1483
01:14:34,840 --> 01:14:37,560
Speaker 2: But from the perspective of how do I go.

1484
01:14:37,600 --> 01:14:42,039
Speaker 1: About making decisions if I think that, especially looking at

1485
01:14:42,079 --> 01:14:45,520
lottery reform, these changes can be made like I can't

1486
01:14:45,600 --> 01:14:50,680
look more than two years ahead, No, and that becomes difficult.

1487
01:14:51,279 --> 01:14:52,479
I did want to ask you, though, what do you

1488
01:14:52,520 --> 01:14:54,880
think of the idea of because I think one of

1489
01:14:54,880 --> 01:14:57,720
the problems with tanking is some of these teams are

1490
01:14:57,760 --> 01:14:58,760
just organically bad.

1491
01:14:59,039 --> 01:15:00,680
Speaker 2: You do get to a point in the season.

1492
01:15:01,199 --> 01:15:03,560
Speaker 1: I don't think it's as early as many people believe,

1493
01:15:03,640 --> 01:15:05,119
but you do get to a point in the season

1494
01:15:05,439 --> 01:15:08,119
post All Star Break, around the trade deadline, whatever, where

1495
01:15:08,119 --> 01:15:11,199
the shenanigans get ridiculous. What do you think of the

1496
01:15:11,279 --> 01:15:14,079
idea of losses counting towards your lottery odds to a

1497
01:15:14,119 --> 01:15:18,119
certain date, followed by wins contributing to your lottery odds

1498
01:15:18,119 --> 01:15:20,279
from a different where to let you use the line

1499
01:15:20,279 --> 01:15:21,840
of demarcation as the trade deadline.

1500
01:15:22,399 --> 01:15:24,199
Speaker 3: Losses before wins after.

1501
01:15:24,399 --> 01:15:27,800
Speaker 2: I think it completely ignores the so called lock of

1502
01:15:27,880 --> 01:15:29,800
the draw in terms of injuries, Like what if you

1503
01:15:29,880 --> 01:15:34,000
have a guy who is out for a major portion

1504
01:15:34,159 --> 01:15:37,560
of the year, but like you're just like, because here's

1505
01:15:37,560 --> 01:15:39,560
the thing, you can be just goodness to still make

1506
01:15:39,600 --> 01:15:42,640
the plane right, like you were, like you said, teams

1507
01:15:42,640 --> 01:15:45,399
aren't making these decisions early in the year. These are

1508
01:15:45,479 --> 01:15:48,680
late in the year because of the implementation of the plane. Now,

1509
01:15:49,039 --> 01:15:52,399
now you're like you're pushing your decision to tank or

1510
01:15:52,520 --> 01:15:55,079
be bad to later or later in the year. So

1511
01:15:55,119 --> 01:15:58,399
if you have your star player missing I don't know,

1512
01:15:58,479 --> 01:16:01,319
two months to an injury or some sort, and there's

1513
01:16:01,439 --> 01:16:05,319
like this arbitrary date, but you're like you're still looking

1514
01:16:05,359 --> 01:16:08,399
at him to like come back before the playoffs and

1515
01:16:08,439 --> 01:16:11,560
then you set off, but you've lost all these games

1516
01:16:11,600 --> 01:16:14,199
and it's like no, you're you're you're losing intentionally and

1517
01:16:14,239 --> 01:16:17,439
you're getting penalized for that. No. Again, it's there are

1518
01:16:17,479 --> 01:16:20,279
just so many unforeseen consequences here. So I I just

1519
01:16:20,359 --> 01:16:22,640
hate this. I hate it. I hate it, I hate it.

1520
01:16:22,680 --> 01:16:25,800
I think this is so ridiculous, and I think it's

1521
01:16:25,880 --> 01:16:28,960
unnecessarily complicated as well, that it should be a cut

1522
01:16:28,960 --> 01:16:31,600
off date because there are so many parameters to why

1523
01:16:31,640 --> 01:16:34,239
you could be bad. Then if that team has been

1524
01:16:34,319 --> 01:16:36,640
bad for most of the year but manages to turn

1525
01:16:36,640 --> 01:16:38,560
it around when the player comes back, then they're not

1526
01:16:38,600 --> 01:16:44,239
going to be rewarded for that. Oh yeah, it's the reverse.

1527
01:16:44,319 --> 01:16:47,319
But like generally speaking, I just bro I think it's

1528
01:16:47,439 --> 01:16:50,439
it's then then then if then let's say you had

1529
01:16:50,479 --> 01:16:53,119
your your you're on a pace to win sixty games,

1530
01:16:53,159 --> 01:16:55,520
and your guy goes down, then what and then you

1531
01:16:55,600 --> 01:16:59,640
start losing? Yeah, but that's the what happens now, if

1532
01:16:59,680 --> 01:17:01,960
that happen, right, No, no, no, I get that. But

1533
01:17:02,119 --> 01:17:05,520
if you're putting in an arbitrary date and you sort

1534
01:17:05,560 --> 01:17:08,359
of say, all right, like there's we're splitting the season

1535
01:17:08,439 --> 01:17:11,279
into two kind of things, like okay, you were taking

1536
01:17:11,359 --> 01:17:13,680
stock to what you did before and then afterwards, Like

1537
01:17:14,760 --> 01:17:18,399
I just foresee so many complications with that, Like it

1538
01:17:18,479 --> 01:17:20,600
has to be a full on single picture.

1539
01:17:22,960 --> 01:17:25,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, so there's always going to be unintended consequences of something.

1540
01:17:25,840 --> 01:17:28,880
I think that ends up having fewer and I just

1541
01:17:28,880 --> 01:17:30,520
haven't talked to you about it before. I think that

1542
01:17:30,600 --> 01:17:33,800
ends up having fewer and I then other scenarios, and

1543
01:17:33,840 --> 01:17:36,239
I think it does split the difference a little bit

1544
01:17:36,239 --> 01:17:37,960
better because it's now you are.

1545
01:17:38,000 --> 01:17:40,359
Speaker 3: So let's use the Pacers as an example here.

1546
01:17:40,640 --> 01:17:44,039
Speaker 1: They're rewarded through through the trade that they're compensated through

1547
01:17:44,039 --> 01:17:46,600
the trade deadline because they don't have Tyre's Haliburton for

1548
01:17:46,720 --> 01:17:49,960
the season, but they're almost incentivized to make that of

1549
01:17:50,000 --> 01:17:53,199
Viatazoobots trade like they did and then continue to play

1550
01:17:53,279 --> 01:17:56,880
him or not sit other guys. The Wizards are incentivized

1551
01:17:56,920 --> 01:17:58,520
to make the trades that they did and then play

1552
01:17:58,520 --> 01:18:01,159
them if they're healthy. Now I'm not saying all these

1553
01:18:01,199 --> 01:18:04,560
teams are faking injuries, but Jaron Jackson Junior, as an example,

1554
01:18:05,119 --> 01:18:08,359
needed surgery. He didn't need it in Memphis, and then

1555
01:18:08,399 --> 01:18:11,079
needed in Utah right after he was kind of playing.

1556
01:18:11,359 --> 01:18:13,279
Speaker 2: So I think you get rid of that behavior.

1557
01:18:13,319 --> 01:18:16,000
Speaker 1: And even if it's some teams get hurt by it,

1558
01:18:16,119 --> 01:18:18,279
they're just but they were rewarded in the first half

1559
01:18:18,279 --> 01:18:20,079
of the season for being organically bad and if you

1560
01:18:20,119 --> 01:18:23,399
are organically bad, it then incentivies you to we're talking

1561
01:18:23,399 --> 01:18:26,039
about the transaction cycle, to be more aggressive at the

1562
01:18:26,039 --> 01:18:28,680
trade deadline. We see more of these instances of why

1563
01:18:28,720 --> 01:18:30,319
are teams like the Pacers and the Jazz and the

1564
01:18:30,319 --> 01:18:33,840
Wizards making these moves for win now players? Maybe that

1565
01:18:33,880 --> 01:18:37,239
misses the mark, but the grant's a pretty he's not

1566
01:18:37,239 --> 01:18:39,239
a big proponent, but he's been on board with some

1567
01:18:39,359 --> 01:18:41,920
variation of the flatt and lottery odds and again proposal

1568
01:18:42,000 --> 01:18:45,560
number one, whether it's eight percent, seven percent, whatever. I

1569
01:18:45,560 --> 01:18:48,680
would welcome the chaos as someone who covers the league

1570
01:18:48,680 --> 01:18:51,560
from like lottery night, But I don't think if people

1571
01:18:51,560 --> 01:18:53,960
are mad about the lottery results from this past year,

1572
01:18:54,560 --> 01:18:56,439
get ready for that to be kind of the new

1573
01:18:56,520 --> 01:18:58,159
normal at that point.

1574
01:18:58,279 --> 01:19:01,079
Speaker 2: So to your example, in terms of like the Pacers,

1575
01:19:01,079 --> 01:19:02,960
they would be incentivized to go trade for you each

1576
01:19:02,960 --> 01:19:08,199
just souper much, all right, What if that team feels

1577
01:19:08,279 --> 01:19:11,319
a need to go out and make a move that

1578
01:19:11,359 --> 01:19:14,119
they actually don't want to do, but it's the only

1579
01:19:14,199 --> 01:19:18,720
way to avoid, you know, getting panalized in some capacity

1580
01:19:18,800 --> 01:19:22,600
like it's I think this just forces teams to do

1581
01:19:22,640 --> 01:19:24,920
something that they might not want to do because of

1582
01:19:24,960 --> 01:19:28,760
a rule set, and to me fundamentally that goes against

1583
01:19:29,279 --> 01:19:30,920
you know, optimal roster construction.

1584
01:19:32,439 --> 01:19:35,039
Speaker 1: What's gonna happen though? If you flatten it, aren't you

1585
01:19:35,079 --> 01:19:38,920
going to it? Does not behavior become more prevalent or

1586
01:19:38,960 --> 01:19:41,079
doesn't reverse it? Well, where are we just gonna have

1587
01:19:41,119 --> 01:19:43,079
more teams? Well, hey, we could be one of the

1588
01:19:43,159 --> 01:19:44,840
ten worst teams on an eight percent chance, we're just

1589
01:19:44,840 --> 01:19:45,840
gonna be bad off rep.

1590
01:19:45,760 --> 01:19:47,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a good question. I mean, remember when they

1591
01:19:47,840 --> 01:19:50,359
changed the lottery os the last time, Like granted was

1592
01:19:50,439 --> 01:19:54,479
not you know that that was they tinkered, but they

1593
01:19:54,520 --> 01:19:56,479
were like, oh, we're sure that this is going to

1594
01:19:56,520 --> 01:20:01,880
prevent tanking, all right, It didn't like that. That didn't

1595
01:20:02,079 --> 01:20:03,560
That did virtually nothing.

1596
01:20:03,840 --> 01:20:05,840
Speaker 1: And it was by and large considered a good idea

1597
01:20:05,920 --> 01:20:08,199
until it wasn't right where it was like remember the

1598
01:20:08,199 --> 01:20:11,079
All Star Game. Everyone thought that elam ending, oh everything,

1599
01:20:11,279 --> 01:20:13,920
until it didn't. And now everyone thinks the USA versus

1600
01:20:13,960 --> 01:20:16,439
world said Oh they did it. It's gonna be something's

1601
01:20:16,439 --> 01:20:18,079
gonna happen within the next like two or three years

1602
01:20:18,079 --> 01:20:20,880
where people are going to turn on it. I don't

1603
01:20:20,880 --> 01:20:22,840
think there's a perfect solution. I'm just I will say

1604
01:20:22,840 --> 01:20:25,760
I'm uninspired with the ones that have been coming up here,

1605
01:20:25,800 --> 01:20:28,680
And I also like, I don't the other thing that

1606
01:20:29,079 --> 01:20:32,199
maybe even sometimes I don't fully appreciate. Right now they're

1607
01:20:32,319 --> 01:20:36,239
drawing the first four picks, you start drawing the first

1608
01:20:36,279 --> 01:20:39,680
eighteen picks, you could do nothing to the odds and

1609
01:20:39,720 --> 01:20:41,000
shit's just gonna get weird.

1610
01:20:41,079 --> 01:20:42,520
Speaker 2: Yep, right, yep.

1611
01:20:42,600 --> 01:20:44,800
Speaker 1: So that's the other star change. So it is that

1612
01:20:44,840 --> 01:20:46,920
one too, Like would it make more sense?

1613
01:20:47,399 --> 01:20:47,840
Speaker 2: Is it?

1614
01:20:47,880 --> 01:20:49,880
Speaker 1: Is it like prohibitive enough to maybe you flatten me

1615
01:20:49,880 --> 01:20:52,319
odds a little bit, like not completely flatten them, but

1616
01:20:52,760 --> 01:20:54,960
through the top What is it the top four teams

1617
01:20:55,039 --> 01:20:58,039
right now have the same chance top three whatever, Like

1618
01:20:58,039 --> 01:21:00,319
do you extend it to five or six and then

1619
01:21:00,359 --> 01:21:03,640
like you extend the lottery? I don't know, but I

1620
01:21:04,039 --> 01:21:05,800
thought there was gonna be more to done to act

1621
01:21:06,000 --> 01:21:10,039
actively incentivize winning. And I don't think giving playing teams

1622
01:21:10,399 --> 01:21:13,760
or bottom rung playoff teams the ability to have some

1623
01:21:13,800 --> 01:21:18,199
sort of lottery odds does that enough when when you're

1624
01:21:18,199 --> 01:21:21,079
gonna flatten them for for everybody else. But I won't

1625
01:21:21,079 --> 01:21:23,399
pretend to have the answer. I'm just more intrigued by

1626
01:21:23,880 --> 01:21:26,239
I prefer you call it the arbitrary cutoff date rule.

1627
01:21:26,479 --> 01:21:28,359
I'd be more in favor of trying something like that

1628
01:21:28,439 --> 01:21:33,000
first before going one of these directions that have been discussed.

1629
01:21:32,720 --> 01:21:34,640
Speaker 2: And I staying corrected. By the way, it's the first,

1630
01:21:34,760 --> 01:21:37,640
it's three teams that have the same odds. By the way,

1631
01:21:37,680 --> 01:21:39,319
it's not four obviously.

1632
01:21:38,960 --> 01:21:42,600
Speaker 1: Yes, so like expand it to five, I guess, although

1633
01:21:42,640 --> 01:21:44,800
then you might be incentivizing tanking to an extent the

1634
01:21:44,880 --> 01:21:47,039
unintended consequences of everything more.

1635
01:21:48,159 --> 01:21:49,800
Speaker 2: One, happy fortieth birthday.

1636
01:21:49,439 --> 01:21:53,560
Speaker 1: But two, can you tell our subscribers audience where they

1637
01:21:53,560 --> 01:21:54,560
can find you and all the workday?

1638
01:21:54,680 --> 01:21:56,920
Speaker 2: Yes, sir, well you can find me over at Yahoo Sports,

1639
01:21:57,119 --> 01:21:59,439
and you can find me at the NB podcast. If

1640
01:21:59,520 --> 01:22:03,319
you standing Danish, you can catch buzzer Beater or called

1641
01:22:03,560 --> 01:22:07,279
catch them calling the games on inshtral Max. Until next time,

1642
01:22:07,319 --> 01:22:08,800
and as always, we mot the shout out to the.

1643
01:22:08,720 --> 01:22:12,960
Speaker 1: One, the only, the indelible, the real player that teams

1644
01:22:12,960 --> 01:22:13,960
should be tanked.

1645
01:22:13,680 --> 01:22:15,000
Speaker 2: To sign in free agency this

1646
01:22:15,039 --> 01:22:17,880
Speaker 3: Summer, mister Frank HeLa Keino