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<v Speaker 1>Well that happened. We finally had a breakthrough. I should

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<v Speaker 1>say I had a breakthrough with AI. For those of

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<v Speaker 1>you who are working with AI, you know what I'm

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<v Speaker 1>talking about. You question the intelligence of AI with prompts,

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<v Speaker 1>and this is something I haven't been doing with any

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<v Speaker 1>skill until recently.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm getting better at it. And I would say two

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<v Speaker 2>years ago I was introduced to check GPT and I

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<v Speaker 2>didn't I wasn't impressed. It was kind of clunky, and

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<v Speaker 2>the responses, the answers, the analysis was not good. It

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<v Speaker 2>was it was like reading a history book. But something happened.

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<v Speaker 2>There's been a quantum leap. There's been an exponential growth

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<v Speaker 2>rate or something. And I download a new version of

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<v Speaker 2>chat GBT and also a creative tool called Venice AI,

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<v Speaker 2>which is used for writing and for composition in terms

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<v Speaker 2>of you know, competitions like paintings or modified illustrations or analysis.

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<v Speaker 2>And I mean, it's just it's very, very very cool. Hey,

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<v Speaker 2>this is Cliff your host of Earth Ahs, And I'm

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<v Speaker 2>really now excited about AI. And I'll tell you why

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<v Speaker 2>I shouldn't be revealing this, but I have gotten to

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<v Speaker 2>the point where I can write a prompt about what

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<v Speaker 2>I consider an anomaly. And here's an example. I talk

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<v Speaker 2>a lot about the Egyptian dynastics sculptures, these colossi. When

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<v Speaker 2>I say colossi, some of them are twenty feet tall,

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<v Speaker 2>some of them are thirty some of them are more

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<v Speaker 2>than thirty feet. And one of my favorites is this

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<v Speaker 2>sculpture of Ramses the second that is laying on its

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<v Speaker 2>back because it's so damn big, and it is in Memphis,

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<v Speaker 2>the town of Memphis, it's twin. Is that the entrance

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<v Speaker 2>of the new one billion dollar Egyptian Grand Museum or

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<v Speaker 2>a Grand Egyptian Museum. It's called Jim and I have

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<v Speaker 2>been fascinated by this since I saw it a few

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<v Speaker 2>years ago on tour, because it's so elegantly carved and

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<v Speaker 2>the level of precision is off to charts. And when

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<v Speaker 2>I say that, the eyes and nose, the face is

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<v Speaker 2>rendered beautifully, the arms and legs, it's just mind blowing

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<v Speaker 2>how they were able to carve such a huge statue

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<v Speaker 2>you with with just beautiful proportion. Uh. And so I

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<v Speaker 2>was questioning this from my vantage point, and what the

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<v Speaker 2>vantage point means is photographs standing on the ground when

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<v Speaker 2>you go to this museum it's an open air museum,

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<v Speaker 2>but it's it's gotta it's got a roof on it.

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<v Speaker 2>You can go up another level and look down, but

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<v Speaker 2>you can get enough material to upload it into AI

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<v Speaker 2>for an analysis. And to my surprise, they were the

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<v Speaker 2>the prompt that I introduced agreed with me. It's a

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<v Speaker 2>very very proportional sculpture. The level of carving, sandy polishing

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<v Speaker 2>is of a high degree. But in fact it's not unknown.

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<v Speaker 2>It's from a Middle Kingdom or early kingdom that it

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<v Speaker 2>was created. And I was a little to point because

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<v Speaker 2>I had always thought it was a pre dynastic sculpture.

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<v Speaker 2>It was before the pharaohs, and and many of you

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<v Speaker 2>already know this. Ramsey's the second was always had I mean,

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<v Speaker 2>he had been known as an usurper. He's copying, putting

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<v Speaker 2>his cartouche on temples, sculptures, obelisks, anything that is a

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<v Speaker 2>public on the public display. He was telling the world

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<v Speaker 2>that he was the big cheese during his reign, and

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<v Speaker 2>he reigned for over I think it was fifty or

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<v Speaker 2>sixty years, a very very long long time. So anyhow,

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<v Speaker 2>that was a little bit of a letdown. But the

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<v Speaker 2>other what I considered the great anomaly of Egypt is

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<v Speaker 2>Abu Sabil and these are the four megaton colossi that

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<v Speaker 2>are carved out of a single hillside. And I had

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<v Speaker 2>been curious about this because how in the hell did

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<v Speaker 2>they get up and carve these beautiful heads and bodies

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<v Speaker 2>and extract it from the side of this hill. It's

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<v Speaker 2>a sandstone carving. So the initial analysis, the initial reply

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<v Speaker 2>following an early prompt was that yes, this is from Ramsey,

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<v Speaker 2>so forth and so on, and that's the general response.

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<v Speaker 2>But and this is what's happening right now, as you

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<v Speaker 2>get more sophisticated in your prompts, more details. What was

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<v Speaker 2>the cutting tool, how did they get up? How do

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<v Speaker 2>they create a sculpture that is able to be seen

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<v Speaker 2>at multiple distances including being close up. That is a

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<v Speaker 2>work of mechanics to a degree and surveying. And this

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<v Speaker 2>is what came back. And this is something I'm going

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<v Speaker 2>to be writing about. And this is an anomaly that

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<v Speaker 2>the AI, the machine learning clarified and confirmed, and that

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<v Speaker 2>is cutting with the tools of the Middle Kingdom, which

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<v Speaker 2>is where Ramsey's falls is not equipped to produce this sculpture.

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<v Speaker 2>What they did, what Ramses did produce is the temples

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<v Speaker 2>in the body of the of the of the mountain,

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<v Speaker 2>and these were known to have been commissioned by Ramses.

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<v Speaker 2>And so you see Ramses in the in his administration,

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<v Speaker 2>you see the Queen Nefertari, you see the servants and

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<v Speaker 2>so forth, beautifully carved at the base of this colossi.

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<v Speaker 2>And when I say colossi, there are four figures. I

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<v Speaker 2>think they stand about sixty feet or more or sit

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<v Speaker 2>sixty feet more. This is the anomaly. So what that

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<v Speaker 2>says is that it's likely pre Dynastic, pre it was

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<v Speaker 2>done prior to the Rain of Ramseys. Now some people

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<v Speaker 2>would say big deal, big deal if it's found before

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<v Speaker 2>the Rain of Ramsey's. Well it is a big deal

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<v Speaker 2>because if you listen to this show, you know that

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<v Speaker 2>I have people on the program who and these some

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<v Speaker 2>of them are classic Egyptologists. They've been trained in them,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, in styles, in the in the history and

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<v Speaker 2>in the artifacts. It's looking more and more like the

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<v Speaker 2>Dynastics weren't the hot shots that we all think they were,

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<v Speaker 2>you know. And and what it's showing is that they

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<v Speaker 2>were having a hard time reusing funerary goods, reusing temples,

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<v Speaker 2>reusing obelisks and statuary and putting their twosches on them.

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<v Speaker 2>It really looks like there was a global disaster. I mean,

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<v Speaker 2>that's kind of still, it's kind of guess work. It's

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<v Speaker 2>it's it's a theoretical But these these signatures, and I

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<v Speaker 2>call them signatures, and you can read that term signatures

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<v Speaker 2>means that what is the cutting style? What is the

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<v Speaker 2>composition style of these pre dynastic people? And it looks

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<v Speaker 2>like the earlier you go, and we talk about this

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<v Speaker 2>in the Old Kingdom temple work in the sculptures, the

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<v Speaker 2>earlier you go, the more sophisticated the carving. So long

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<v Speaker 2>story short, abusabil is the initial work the four Colossi

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<v Speaker 2>looks to be pre dynastic. Now you're not going to

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<v Speaker 2>get an Egyptologist to admit that unless this data is released,

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<v Speaker 2>and so you have to begin releasing the data. And

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<v Speaker 2>I'm very hesitant to do that. You know, I'm just

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<v Speaker 2>a journalist. But these prompts are getting very sophisticated. And

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<v Speaker 2>that's the key to unlock this data is writing a

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<v Speaker 2>very sophisticated prompt. If you don't know what I'm talking about,

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<v Speaker 2>go and do a search for sophisticated prompts on a

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<v Speaker 2>topic like the Great Pyramids, or if you're in North America,

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<v Speaker 2>the mound builders, the Kahokia or something, you know, and

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<v Speaker 2>see what it says, and then you'll learn that the

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<v Speaker 2>more detail you can get in your question in terms

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<v Speaker 2>including technical data like houses carved, what was the original elevations?

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<v Speaker 2>You know what I mean, it's just kind of like

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<v Speaker 2>dig down into it. If you can create a solid

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<v Speaker 2>paragraph which is your prompt, watch out, watch out to

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<v Speaker 2>get some amazing material. And I'm really excited about this

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<v Speaker 2>because it's almost like before I go to Benverne and

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<v Speaker 2>I kind of go through my book of anomalies, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>and I've been disappointed, especially as a mayanist. I've been

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<v Speaker 2>very disappointed because I've discovered that things that I thought

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<v Speaker 2>were representations of technology are just shamanistic tools. Or you know.

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<v Speaker 2>It's great because remember AI is taking every little bit

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<v Speaker 2>of data, decades worth, centuries worth, one hundred and fifty

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<v Speaker 2>plus years of my own data and dumping it into

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<v Speaker 2>a system and analyzing it so you get the clear perception.

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<v Speaker 2>But that shouldn't stop you. You keep working, you keep

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<v Speaker 2>changing and refining your prompt asking additional questions you'll be surprised.

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<v Speaker 2>You'll be surprised at what comes out. It's just fantastic.

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<v Speaker 2>So I am loving AI. In fact, I love it

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<v Speaker 2>so much that we're going to to do a special

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<v Speaker 2>program on AI in Ancient History with the top experts,

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<v Speaker 2>including my guests today, doctor Heather Lynn, who is writing

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<v Speaker 2>a book that's coming out on artificial intelligence. So look

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<v Speaker 2>forward to that. We'll have four experts, two of them

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<v Speaker 2>filed archaeologists. One a geologist, could be Randal Carlson. I

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<v Speaker 2>don't know. He said he's interested. We'll have to find

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<v Speaker 2>out anyhow. Look forward to that and I'll announce it

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<v Speaker 2>in the future. So fun, very very fun. Hey, the

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<v Speaker 2>guest today is doctor Heather Lynn. She has written a

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<v Speaker 2>new book called Ananachi Revelation, and this is a brilliant

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<v Speaker 2>piece of work. If you have any interest in the

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<v Speaker 2>Ananaki whatsoever, you got to get this book. It just

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<v Speaker 2>came out. You can get it on Amazon. And we're

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<v Speaker 2>going to learn some of the new data that she

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<v Speaker 2>has uncovered using AI, but also some really sharp research

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<v Speaker 2>tools that have become available. So I think you're going

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<v Speaker 2>to enjoy the show an Anachi Revelation with Heatherlin. This

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<v Speaker 2>podcast is brought to you by Squarespace. Hey, have you

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<v Speaker 2>expand on, perhaps as a product or a service, or

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<v Speaker 2>Forward slash Ancients. There's a new Anonochi book out there,

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<v Speaker 2>and we've had a lot of discussion. We've had Michael

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<v Speaker 2>Tellinger on the show, and we've had the people who

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<v Speaker 2>are holding up the Anonachi banner, and I've mentioned many

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<v Speaker 2>times that I knew and worked with and traveled with

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<v Speaker 2>Zacharaizh Sichen, who is noted as the expert on the Anonachi,

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<v Speaker 2>which turned out to be not quite true. But we

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<v Speaker 2>have Heather alone with us today introducing a new book

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<v Speaker 2>called Anonachi Revelation, and it's excellent. Not only is it

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<v Speaker 2>detailed and we're gonna learn more about today she gets

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<v Speaker 2>into the fundamentals of Anonachi, the history of it, and

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<v Speaker 2>the Sumerians, which are just this amazing civilization. But there's

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<v Speaker 2>some twists here that I think you're gonna find quite interesting.

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<v Speaker 2>So Heather, welcome to Earth the Ancients. Good to see you.

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<v Speaker 2>You have a happy smile.

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<v Speaker 3>How you been, I've been great. Thank you so much

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<v Speaker 3>for having me. I appreciate it.

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<v Speaker 2>This is wonderful what you've written in this book on

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<v Speaker 2>so many different levels, and we're going to get into

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<v Speaker 2>what were the what inspired you, But there's a lot

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<v Speaker 2>to cover. Does this take off from the last book

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<v Speaker 2>or is this kind of a would you say, a

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<v Speaker 2>fresh start?

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<v Speaker 3>A little bit of both. I think it's standalone, so

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<v Speaker 3>it would seem like a fresh start, but it definitely

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<v Speaker 3>did come as a result of the work that I

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<v Speaker 3>did with the Onanaki connection for sure.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. And then in the beginning, let's talk a little

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<v Speaker 2>bit about the beginning, because we're talking about Sumerians and

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<v Speaker 2>Sumerian mythology, and they're quite a unique race because they

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<v Speaker 2>brought through writing. Talk a little bit about that, would you.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, many people are familiar with the Sumerians as being

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<v Speaker 3>the civilization and that's where we get this on your

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<v Speaker 3>Noki lore. And in a lot of ways, they're the

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<v Speaker 3>first pantheon that we even know the names of. Because

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<v Speaker 3>these Samerians were prolific writers. They kept track of everything,

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<v Speaker 3>very bureaucratic, very mythical, and so they wrote on cuneiform

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<v Speaker 3>tablets made of clay, which is a large reason we

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<v Speaker 3>still have so many of those tablets and to reference,

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<v Speaker 3>and so many we don't even have them all translated.

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<v Speaker 3>There's the last estimate was about half a million Samerian

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<v Speaker 3>tablets currently in museums and in universities, with many more

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<v Speaker 3>to be discovered, and so the translations on those have

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<v Speaker 3>not been completed. Only a fraction of them have. So

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<v Speaker 3>it's a very interesting and dynamic field and so many

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<v Speaker 3>people have been excited about it over the years, and

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<v Speaker 3>as you can imagine, both mainstream and alternative so to speak,

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<v Speaker 3>individuals have done that research and started trying to put

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<v Speaker 3>out there their ideas and translations and interpretations.

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<v Speaker 2>It's funny we were just talking about AI. Do we

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<v Speaker 2>know if they have a cuneiform AI book or system

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<v Speaker 2>or something that they're working on, because as you say,

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<v Speaker 2>they keep finding libraries or stockpiles of these cuneiforms in Iraqi,

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<v Speaker 2>not only ruin sites but other areas too.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, they are, they're currently working on that. There was

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00:17:25.799 --> 00:17:30.319
<v Speaker 3>a press release but sometime last year announcing that they

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<v Speaker 3>had translated successfully to in their opinion, it was cross

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<v Speaker 3>validated by humans, and so they were experimenting with that

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<v Speaker 3>ability to translate cuneiform specifically and then eventually hopefully other texts.

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<v Speaker 3>It's fascinating because it's estimated that if you had a

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<v Speaker 3>full time staff working round the clock, it would take

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<v Speaker 3>forty plus years or more to just start to translate

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<v Speaker 3>all of the tablets that are in possession. So there's

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<v Speaker 3>just no way that we're going to be able to

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<v Speaker 3>get to that. So what you have is a scarcity

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<v Speaker 3>of individuals who can actually do the work, a scarcity

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<v Speaker 3>of money too, because those people do have to be paid,

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<v Speaker 3>and there have to be programs. And so what you're

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<v Speaker 3>looking at here with artificial intelligence is the potential to

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<v Speaker 3>ramp that up, to speed it up quite significantly. But

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<v Speaker 3>also with those strengths come weaknesses, some of which include

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<v Speaker 3>the question of who owns the data, who's funding the data,

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<v Speaker 3>what happens to that data when it comes out, how

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<v Speaker 3>has it been trained, what sort of ethics are at

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<v Speaker 3>play there. And one bit of information when I was

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<v Speaker 3>looking into this initially was well, we have one university

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00:18:42.599 --> 00:18:46.319
<v Speaker 3>doing this and then a few others, but the funding

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00:18:46.400 --> 00:18:48.960
<v Speaker 3>was coming from a central location. So they were getting

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<v Speaker 3>grants to their universities from say an endowment for the

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<v Speaker 3>Humanities or something to that effect in each country, and

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<v Speaker 3>each of those endowments were donated by one global organization

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<v Speaker 3>called the Transatlantic Platform. So at the end of the day,

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<v Speaker 3>that's something concerning because you have who knows how many

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<v Speaker 3>people who'd like to go in and tamper with what

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<v Speaker 3>those tablets actually say.

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<v Speaker 2>Now, I have discovered in recent years that those tablets

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<v Speaker 2>would cover daily activities. They're not just you know, mythology

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<v Speaker 2>and history. They covered a huge variety of topics did.

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<v Speaker 3>They everything everything from spells and incantations to actual day

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<v Speaker 3>to day dinner recipes, and some of the more famous ones,

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00:19:39.279 --> 00:19:42.599
<v Speaker 3>or one in particular is usually referred to as the

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00:19:42.640 --> 00:19:46.400
<v Speaker 3>first customer complaint, So that's a funny one. So a

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<v Speaker 3>lot of them, as you could imagine, have to do

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<v Speaker 3>with genealogies or land ownership or trade or that sort

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<v Speaker 3>of thing. But then of course there's school books too,

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<v Speaker 3>there's medical texts, there's everything you could imagine coming from

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<v Speaker 3>a civilization, and it was all recorded, from the mundane

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<v Speaker 3>to the extraordinary.

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<v Speaker 2>Do you think Sitchin took artistic license in his interpretations

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<v Speaker 2>of the cuneiforms?

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<v Speaker 3>Absolutely?

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<v Speaker 2>And I think, but how what how much do you

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<v Speaker 2>think it was he rewrote the book or did he

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<v Speaker 2>just like, well, you know, he was a god and

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<v Speaker 2>he flew in a ship.

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<v Speaker 3>I think. I think what he did is I think

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00:20:28.200 --> 00:20:31.039
<v Speaker 3>some of the translations are malleable, and so I think

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00:20:31.039 --> 00:20:34.039
<v Speaker 3>that he was able to push those to their limits.

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<v Speaker 3>But I often when I talk about Sitchen refer to

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00:20:37.359 --> 00:20:41.160
<v Speaker 3>the difference between translation and interpretation and so while he

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00:20:41.200 --> 00:20:43.599
<v Speaker 3>did get some translations wrong, as we know now in

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00:20:43.640 --> 00:20:46.839
<v Speaker 3>twenty twenty six, some of them were correct because he

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00:20:46.960 --> 00:20:52.039
<v Speaker 3>was mostly citing some previous work, but then also the translation.

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00:20:52.319 --> 00:20:55.799
<v Speaker 3>So even if you were to or the interpretation, even

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00:20:55.799 --> 00:20:58.359
<v Speaker 3>if you were to translate everything word for word, the

294
00:20:58.400 --> 00:21:02.160
<v Speaker 3>interpretation is something that is equally as important, and so

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00:21:02.400 --> 00:21:04.519
<v Speaker 3>I think it was a little bit of both. But

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00:21:04.599 --> 00:21:07.880
<v Speaker 3>mostly the interpretation is where we may have flaws. And

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<v Speaker 3>so for instance, if you have like the word rouge,

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<v Speaker 3>I like this is one example, the word rouge. It's

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00:21:15.720 --> 00:21:18.480
<v Speaker 3>French for red, but it's also known as like if

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00:21:18.519 --> 00:21:21.440
<v Speaker 3>you're putting on blush, you know, a women's blush or

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00:21:21.480 --> 00:21:24.240
<v Speaker 3>makeup would be like rouge. Well you would think maybe

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00:21:24.240 --> 00:21:26.799
<v Speaker 3>that's because it's red, but it actually because it's powder.

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00:21:27.160 --> 00:21:29.519
<v Speaker 3>So if you buy a chocolate and you know that's

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00:21:29.519 --> 00:21:32.440
<v Speaker 3>a chocolate powder, cocoa powder, it will be called cocoa rouge.

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00:21:32.759 --> 00:21:34.720
<v Speaker 3>So if you don't know what you're looking at or

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00:21:34.759 --> 00:21:37.079
<v Speaker 3>how it's interpreted, you might look at that cocoa powder

307
00:21:37.119 --> 00:21:40.799
<v Speaker 3>and say it's it's red chocolate. Is that red? Or

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00:21:40.880 --> 00:21:43.279
<v Speaker 3>is it you know it's powder. So there's a lot

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00:21:43.319 --> 00:21:45.240
<v Speaker 3>of inferences that could be made. It's like if we

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00:21:45.279 --> 00:21:47.799
<v Speaker 3>went back and somebody you know, was in the future

311
00:21:47.839 --> 00:21:50.359
<v Speaker 3>and they looked back at our language and said, you know,

312
00:21:50.400 --> 00:21:53.319
<v Speaker 3>what's this. They're saying that this album was cool? Does

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00:21:53.319 --> 00:21:55.559
<v Speaker 3>it mean it was like temperature wise, it was actually

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00:21:55.599 --> 00:21:58.400
<v Speaker 3>cool to the touch versus what's the metric? You know,

315
00:21:58.640 --> 00:22:01.200
<v Speaker 3>totally off base, right, There's a lot more that goes

316
00:22:01.240 --> 00:22:05.960
<v Speaker 3>into understanding texts like this than simply translation, and so

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<v Speaker 3>I think because of the complexity of it Sichen was

318
00:22:09.799 --> 00:22:12.359
<v Speaker 3>able to get a lot of things correct and then

319
00:22:12.400 --> 00:22:15.279
<v Speaker 3>get a lot of things maybe in a world in

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00:22:15.319 --> 00:22:18.279
<v Speaker 3>a realm that he put his own interpretations and spins

321
00:22:18.319 --> 00:22:22.160
<v Speaker 3>on it. A big notable way you can pull that

322
00:22:22.240 --> 00:22:24.839
<v Speaker 3>out is thinking about his points of reference, and we

323
00:22:24.880 --> 00:22:28.599
<v Speaker 3>all bring bias into the equation. It's a good researcher

324
00:22:28.640 --> 00:22:31.279
<v Speaker 3>that can admit that and then clarify so that other

325
00:22:31.279 --> 00:22:33.839
<v Speaker 3>people can go through and acknowledge that bias as well.

326
00:22:34.160 --> 00:22:37.279
<v Speaker 3>So he didn't necessarily acknowledge that bias, and that bias

327
00:22:37.279 --> 00:22:40.160
<v Speaker 3>would have been when he wrote those books. At around

328
00:22:40.200 --> 00:22:44.440
<v Speaker 3>that time, the culture was very excited about new space

329
00:22:44.519 --> 00:22:47.880
<v Speaker 3>exploration and technology, and so it makes a lot of

330
00:22:47.960 --> 00:22:51.240
<v Speaker 3>sense that when he writes about these gods coming from

331
00:22:51.400 --> 00:22:56.640
<v Speaker 3>extraterrestrial places that they weren't coming in via some new

332
00:22:56.680 --> 00:22:59.279
<v Speaker 3>idea that we may see and say a modern film

333
00:22:59.319 --> 00:23:03.680
<v Speaker 3>like a Rival or Contact even, but rather nuts and bolt,

334
00:23:03.720 --> 00:23:07.480
<v Speaker 3>spaceships made of metal, things that are very, very iconic

335
00:23:07.519 --> 00:23:10.559
<v Speaker 3>to the nineteen sixties. And so when you consider when

336
00:23:10.599 --> 00:23:14.119
<v Speaker 3>he was writing this the popularity of that material, those

337
00:23:14.119 --> 00:23:16.759
<v Speaker 3>are the things that shine through. And so it's important

338
00:23:16.759 --> 00:23:21.160
<v Speaker 3>to look at all authors with that bit of not

339
00:23:21.279 --> 00:23:23.839
<v Speaker 3>skepticism in that negative way, but just you know, with

340
00:23:23.880 --> 00:23:27.039
<v Speaker 3>your eyes open and understanding people's biases. So, yes, he

341
00:23:27.160 --> 00:23:29.880
<v Speaker 3>did take a lot and interpret them in a lot

342
00:23:29.920 --> 00:23:33.160
<v Speaker 3>of different ways, but a lot of the texts were

343
00:23:33.200 --> 00:23:37.440
<v Speaker 3>actually lending themselves to that story altogether. It's just that's

344
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<v Speaker 3>that's one of the things that I think is also important.

345
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<v Speaker 3>Like an example would be when he talks about how

346
00:23:42.799 --> 00:23:46.559
<v Speaker 3>they came and enslaved people, right, Well, that's actually pretty

347
00:23:46.559 --> 00:23:48.799
<v Speaker 3>true if you look at the accounts of what the

348
00:23:48.920 --> 00:23:51.759
<v Speaker 3>Sumerians did, what they had to do, and what they

349
00:23:51.799 --> 00:23:54.519
<v Speaker 3>were compelled to do and what happened. So how that

350
00:23:54.599 --> 00:23:57.200
<v Speaker 3>came about and all of those things are another detail.

351
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<v Speaker 3>But so I think the big away when it comes

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00:24:00.839 --> 00:24:03.640
<v Speaker 3>to Sitchen and has realized that there were biases. There's

353
00:24:03.880 --> 00:24:08.039
<v Speaker 3>a lot going on there. And then we have years past,

354
00:24:08.200 --> 00:24:11.640
<v Speaker 3>so again it's twenty twenty six now, so a lot

355
00:24:11.680 --> 00:24:14.599
<v Speaker 3>has changed. He wasn't the only one, and he's not

356
00:24:14.720 --> 00:24:16.960
<v Speaker 3>been the only one in the field has grown, and

357
00:24:17.000 --> 00:24:19.240
<v Speaker 3>people still go to school and try to learn this

358
00:24:19.319 --> 00:24:22.359
<v Speaker 3>and research it, and other authors who perhaps didn't go

359
00:24:22.400 --> 00:24:25.480
<v Speaker 3>to school for it specifically have weighed in and through

360
00:24:25.559 --> 00:24:29.039
<v Speaker 3>all of that activity. Partially because of him being able

361
00:24:29.079 --> 00:24:31.200
<v Speaker 3>to put it out into the public and make it

362
00:24:31.279 --> 00:24:34.960
<v Speaker 3>something interesting to people, more information has come about and

363
00:24:34.960 --> 00:24:38.200
<v Speaker 3>more learning has happened. So it's a mistake to trap

364
00:24:38.240 --> 00:24:41.720
<v Speaker 3>your points of reference in the Sitchen camp, so to speak.

365
00:24:41.920 --> 00:24:44.279
<v Speaker 2>He's not a reference point, I think, is what you're saying.

366
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<v Speaker 3>He's just a reference point absolutely on the basic historiography

367
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<v Speaker 3>of the Onanaki.

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<v Speaker 2>If you will, yeah, before we leave Sitchin, do you

369
00:24:52.640 --> 00:24:56.480
<v Speaker 2>think that the Ananaki word geneticis like he I mean,

370
00:24:56.680 --> 00:24:59.559
<v Speaker 2>this is a huge point for him. He wrote a

371
00:24:59.559 --> 00:25:05.799
<v Speaker 2>whole book gone it manipulating DNA and we are hybrids

372
00:25:05.839 --> 00:25:10.240
<v Speaker 2>from them and from early ape like creatures.

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<v Speaker 3>I asked, absolutely believe that. However, This is where we

374
00:25:15.519 --> 00:25:20.599
<v Speaker 3>have that difference in interpretation. If you are interested in

375
00:25:20.599 --> 00:25:24.000
<v Speaker 3>that material, you may immediately think a geneticist is somebody

376
00:25:24.119 --> 00:25:28.160
<v Speaker 3>like one of the upclu or on a Naki guys

377
00:25:28.200 --> 00:25:30.680
<v Speaker 3>wearing a lab suit and he has a beaker and

378
00:25:30.720 --> 00:25:33.680
<v Speaker 3>he's pouring stuff through and what have you. But let's

379
00:25:33.759 --> 00:25:36.400
<v Speaker 3>use Occam's raiser there. So the text does talk about

380
00:25:36.759 --> 00:25:41.279
<v Speaker 3>regulations on breeding and a whole host of other things.

381
00:25:41.920 --> 00:25:44.400
<v Speaker 3>But what could they have done? Something probably a lot

382
00:25:44.400 --> 00:25:48.359
<v Speaker 3>more simple, which is my point, which is they brought

383
00:25:48.400 --> 00:25:52.359
<v Speaker 3>in technologies like agriculture. Part of agriculture too is animal husbandry.

384
00:25:52.720 --> 00:25:56.039
<v Speaker 3>If they subjugated the hunter semi settled hunter gatherers that

385
00:25:56.079 --> 00:25:58.359
<v Speaker 3>were in the region, forced them to work for them

386
00:25:58.559 --> 00:26:02.400
<v Speaker 3>aka worship, then they had all of these different rules

387
00:26:02.400 --> 00:26:06.519
<v Speaker 3>and regulations, including that their kind wouldn't be able to

388
00:26:06.559 --> 00:26:09.119
<v Speaker 3>mingle with the semi settled hundred gathers in the region.

389
00:26:09.599 --> 00:26:14.039
<v Speaker 3>So in that sense, you have a particular cast of people,

390
00:26:14.559 --> 00:26:18.920
<v Speaker 3>the honor Naki, if you will, and they are selectively breeding.

391
00:26:19.000 --> 00:26:23.000
<v Speaker 3>They're controlling the native population through what they understood their technology,

392
00:26:23.039 --> 00:26:25.680
<v Speaker 3>which is animal husbandry. So if you wanted to breed

393
00:26:25.720 --> 00:26:28.880
<v Speaker 3>some dogs and make you a labordoodle. You don't need

394
00:26:29.279 --> 00:26:31.920
<v Speaker 3>a lab code of beaker and a whole lot of technology.

395
00:26:32.319 --> 00:26:33.079
<v Speaker 3>You know what to do.

396
00:26:33.839 --> 00:26:38.880
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you get into some Indiana Jones in the early

397
00:26:38.920 --> 00:26:41.559
<v Speaker 2>part of your book, which I really like. We're talking

398
00:26:41.599 --> 00:26:46.599
<v Speaker 2>about historians, and according to your research, the Nazis had

399
00:26:46.640 --> 00:26:51.039
<v Speaker 2>a great deal of interest in Iraq, and talk about

400
00:26:51.039 --> 00:26:54.920
<v Speaker 2>that because I found it interesting. I thought it was

401
00:26:55.079 --> 00:26:56.960
<v Speaker 2>a kind of a joke because you think of it

402
00:26:57.000 --> 00:27:01.960
<v Speaker 2>as a movie and you're saying, no, the Nazis actually

403
00:27:01.960 --> 00:27:05.920
<v Speaker 2>were serious about it and spent considerable amount of resources

404
00:27:06.480 --> 00:27:09.200
<v Speaker 2>having people go and dig. They did.

405
00:27:09.240 --> 00:27:11.279
<v Speaker 3>They did. They were actually concerned with a lot of

406
00:27:11.319 --> 00:27:14.359
<v Speaker 3>that region, Iran in particular, and in fact, that's where

407
00:27:14.359 --> 00:27:17.359
<v Speaker 3>we get the term Aryan. It comes from the Ariana

408
00:27:17.680 --> 00:27:21.079
<v Speaker 3>and their name and so that meant noble blood. So

409
00:27:21.160 --> 00:27:25.880
<v Speaker 3>a lot of this research is you know, a controversial

410
00:27:25.880 --> 00:27:29.240
<v Speaker 3>if you will, because the Nazis were very much interested

411
00:27:29.240 --> 00:27:33.640
<v Speaker 3>in locating these particular bloodlines, and so they didn't make

412
00:27:33.720 --> 00:27:37.079
<v Speaker 3>up the science and technology. The science and technology to

413
00:27:37.200 --> 00:27:41.359
<v Speaker 3>understand anthropology at the time already existed and it was

414
00:27:41.559 --> 00:27:43.680
<v Speaker 3>sort of a racial science and it was doing something

415
00:27:43.720 --> 00:27:47.480
<v Speaker 3>completely different, but it fit the narrative of the Nazi regime,

416
00:27:47.519 --> 00:27:51.920
<v Speaker 3>and so they went and looked into that, funded it greatly,

417
00:27:52.440 --> 00:27:56.119
<v Speaker 3>made it nationalized, and then sent people in all sorts

418
00:27:56.119 --> 00:28:00.319
<v Speaker 3>of groups to try to find evidence for this particular idea. Yeah,

419
00:28:00.559 --> 00:28:03.839
<v Speaker 3>and now what's a big problem with it, among other things,

420
00:28:03.960 --> 00:28:07.279
<v Speaker 3>is that some of the research that was heading into

421
00:28:07.400 --> 00:28:10.720
<v Speaker 3>anthropology and through anthropology at the time, things about say

422
00:28:10.759 --> 00:28:14.720
<v Speaker 3>like the proto Indo European people, or human migration patterns,

423
00:28:15.519 --> 00:28:18.920
<v Speaker 3>the transfer of technologies and this sort of thing. They

424
00:28:19.400 --> 00:28:23.279
<v Speaker 3>were on one track. But then because of the Nazi regime,

425
00:28:23.440 --> 00:28:26.720
<v Speaker 3>because of what they did to weaponize everything, it was

426
00:28:26.759 --> 00:28:31.119
<v Speaker 3>like thrown out completely. And so any anthropologist post the Nazi,

427
00:28:31.680 --> 00:28:35.000
<v Speaker 3>the World War two and like into especially postmodernists in

428
00:28:35.079 --> 00:28:38.480
<v Speaker 3>the nineteen sixties, they were encouraged to do some completely

429
00:28:38.519 --> 00:28:42.000
<v Speaker 3>different almost to make up for the fact that Hitler

430
00:28:42.119 --> 00:28:44.960
<v Speaker 3>sort of took this notion and ran with it. But

431
00:28:45.039 --> 00:28:47.920
<v Speaker 3>if you back it up to that time, he had

432
00:28:47.960 --> 00:28:51.000
<v Speaker 3>the onerbe and yes, it is very much Indiana Jones ish.

433
00:28:51.039 --> 00:28:54.559
<v Speaker 3>They were looking for these particular artifacts and evidence of

434
00:28:54.599 --> 00:28:58.400
<v Speaker 3>this bloodline that they thought was a noble bloodline. So

435
00:28:58.440 --> 00:29:01.680
<v Speaker 3>I used to ask my students this very thing you know,

436
00:29:01.720 --> 00:29:04.440
<v Speaker 3>if you hear like Hitler wanted a bunch of Aryans,

437
00:29:04.880 --> 00:29:06.759
<v Speaker 3>you know what did that mean? And most people will

438
00:29:06.759 --> 00:29:10.839
<v Speaker 3>say tall, blonde haired individuals, and to which I would

439
00:29:10.839 --> 00:29:13.960
<v Speaker 3>say no, because you know, because then the question is, well,

440
00:29:14.000 --> 00:29:15.839
<v Speaker 3>why was he into that? And he was shortened, didn't

441
00:29:15.839 --> 00:29:19.359
<v Speaker 3>have blonde hair. It's like because here misunderstanding what the

442
00:29:19.559 --> 00:29:22.559
<v Speaker 3>Aryan idea was for them, and it was this idea

443
00:29:22.799 --> 00:29:28.240
<v Speaker 3>of the seed sort of of population coming out of Iran,

444
00:29:28.720 --> 00:29:31.559
<v Speaker 3>and that he viewed that the Iranians and people in

445
00:29:31.599 --> 00:29:36.400
<v Speaker 3>that Mesopotamian area more broadly were of the noblest and

446
00:29:36.480 --> 00:29:41.079
<v Speaker 3>purest bloodline of these individuals, and so he thought they

447
00:29:41.119 --> 00:29:44.000
<v Speaker 3>were officially, like you know, part of the Nazi regime

448
00:29:44.160 --> 00:29:47.759
<v Speaker 3>and gave them all kinds of special preferred nation status

449
00:29:47.759 --> 00:29:51.279
<v Speaker 3>in this And so as he starts going in and

450
00:29:51.319 --> 00:29:54.240
<v Speaker 3>looking for artifacts to link the German people to this

451
00:29:55.200 --> 00:29:58.799
<v Speaker 3>so called race as well, you know, he he, he

452
00:29:58.920 --> 00:30:01.720
<v Speaker 3>was already in occult to people around him were occultist.

453
00:30:01.759 --> 00:30:04.519
<v Speaker 3>And it just so happens that leading up to that

454
00:30:04.720 --> 00:30:10.039
<v Speaker 3>was this big view of Atlantis and theosophy and the

455
00:30:10.640 --> 00:30:13.720
<v Speaker 3>notion of root races, and that was informing that as well.

456
00:30:13.759 --> 00:30:16.160
<v Speaker 3>And so in addition to them maybe being like some

457
00:30:16.279 --> 00:30:19.799
<v Speaker 3>superior maybe an appearance or something, you know what we're

458
00:30:19.880 --> 00:30:22.400
<v Speaker 3>usually led to believe, he thought they were also had

459
00:30:22.440 --> 00:30:25.559
<v Speaker 3>like magical powers and all of these different abilities, and

460
00:30:25.680 --> 00:30:29.000
<v Speaker 3>so he thought this was important to find these bloodlines.

461
00:30:29.519 --> 00:30:32.759
<v Speaker 3>And whether or not it was him personally or if

462
00:30:32.759 --> 00:30:36.680
<v Speaker 3>it was Himmler and these types, doesn't really matter. A

463
00:30:36.680 --> 00:30:40.200
<v Speaker 3>lot of money went to searching for artifacts that would

464
00:30:40.640 --> 00:30:44.799
<v Speaker 3>legitimize their racial beliefs and paint a broader picture of

465
00:30:44.799 --> 00:30:47.319
<v Speaker 3>the history of the German people. And so he was

466
00:30:47.400 --> 00:30:50.480
<v Speaker 3>leveraging a lot of existing science at the time and

467
00:30:50.519 --> 00:30:53.839
<v Speaker 3>then pumped a bunch of money into it, which led

468
00:30:53.880 --> 00:30:58.200
<v Speaker 3>to some innovations, but also, as you could imagine, unregulated inquiry.

469
00:30:58.240 --> 00:31:00.480
<v Speaker 3>And so he gave people lots of money, almost like

470
00:31:00.519 --> 00:31:04.079
<v Speaker 3>the Epstein situation, where it's like, go do science, here's

471
00:31:04.119 --> 00:31:07.440
<v Speaker 3>all the money, corruption, whatever, and then as you see it,

472
00:31:07.440 --> 00:31:08.799
<v Speaker 3>it didn't. It didn't go so well.

473
00:31:09.680 --> 00:31:13.680
<v Speaker 2>Is there a sense that the Innanaki were an aryan

474
00:31:13.839 --> 00:31:17.440
<v Speaker 2>type of race or was that just their hope? The

475
00:31:17.519 --> 00:31:21.200
<v Speaker 2>Nazis hoped that they would find evidence that in these

476
00:31:21.240 --> 00:31:26.039
<v Speaker 2>cuneiforms that these were you know, white, tall alien races

477
00:31:26.039 --> 00:31:29.920
<v Speaker 2>that wanted to make more white, tall aliens.

478
00:31:30.319 --> 00:31:35.279
<v Speaker 3>You're right. I think that they were heavily influenced by Wells. Firstly,

479
00:31:35.319 --> 00:31:38.680
<v Speaker 3>that they weren't even extraterrestrial, but rather from hollow Earth,

480
00:31:39.039 --> 00:31:42.359
<v Speaker 3>because they were into the idea of the real or

481
00:31:42.359 --> 00:31:44.759
<v Speaker 3>the vrialia. So they had the real society, and that

482
00:31:44.799 --> 00:31:47.039
<v Speaker 3>actually came that idea came from a novel that had

483
00:31:47.039 --> 00:31:50.480
<v Speaker 3>been written at the time, but that really dealt with

484
00:31:50.559 --> 00:31:55.200
<v Speaker 3>the idea of entities coming from hollow Earth, and so

485
00:31:55.599 --> 00:31:58.039
<v Speaker 3>a lot of weird stuff going on to inform their thinking.

486
00:31:58.079 --> 00:32:01.680
<v Speaker 3>So whether or not they thought of them as real

487
00:32:01.880 --> 00:32:05.960
<v Speaker 3>or tall, or white or however, it's unclear because so

488
00:32:06.079 --> 00:32:08.680
<v Speaker 3>many people were in that mix with their own agendas.

489
00:32:09.039 --> 00:32:11.000
<v Speaker 3>The only thing that we know for sure is that

490
00:32:11.559 --> 00:32:14.960
<v Speaker 3>they spent a lot of money and a lot of

491
00:32:15.000 --> 00:32:17.680
<v Speaker 3>effort looking for particular artifacts.

492
00:32:18.640 --> 00:32:24.119
<v Speaker 2>And this brings me forward and you've written some fabulous research,

493
00:32:24.319 --> 00:32:28.000
<v Speaker 2>and this is that. Also the Americans are looting the

494
00:32:28.039 --> 00:32:34.160
<v Speaker 2>Iraqi museums during the Gulf War. What was that all about?

495
00:32:34.680 --> 00:32:39.440
<v Speaker 2>Do we have evidence of exactly what they took or

496
00:32:39.559 --> 00:32:41.839
<v Speaker 2>is it just like they were in the basement of

497
00:32:41.880 --> 00:32:46.240
<v Speaker 2>the museum and pillaging and taking unique documents.

498
00:32:47.359 --> 00:32:50.200
<v Speaker 3>That's a really good question because initially you would think, well,

499
00:32:50.200 --> 00:32:53.440
<v Speaker 3>they're looting it so they can take valuable things, and

500
00:32:53.559 --> 00:32:57.319
<v Speaker 3>so that was not necessarily the case. And what you

501
00:32:57.480 --> 00:33:00.960
<v Speaker 3>find was there's a list of items that they came

502
00:33:01.079 --> 00:33:03.680
<v Speaker 3>up with that would have made more sense for them

503
00:33:03.720 --> 00:33:05.759
<v Speaker 3>to take, so things that would have been very valuable

504
00:33:05.799 --> 00:33:07.799
<v Speaker 3>to sell on the black market, and those were left

505
00:33:07.839 --> 00:33:10.359
<v Speaker 3>behind most of them. The other things that they took

506
00:33:10.400 --> 00:33:13.880
<v Speaker 3>were just strange, didn't seem to have much value. Some

507
00:33:13.920 --> 00:33:17.880
<v Speaker 3>of them did have obvious value. But when it was asked,

508
00:33:17.920 --> 00:33:20.400
<v Speaker 3>you know, why why did they leave these items, there

509
00:33:20.480 --> 00:33:23.440
<v Speaker 3>wasn't a clear idea as to why. The theories have

510
00:33:23.519 --> 00:33:26.000
<v Speaker 3>been that well, perhaps it's because if they bought them,

511
00:33:26.160 --> 00:33:28.240
<v Speaker 3>or if they if they stole them and then tried

512
00:33:28.240 --> 00:33:30.799
<v Speaker 3>to sell them, the people who'd buy them might have

513
00:33:30.839 --> 00:33:32.640
<v Speaker 3>been intel, they might have been found out and it

514
00:33:32.680 --> 00:33:34.839
<v Speaker 3>could have linked them to that. And so that's the

515
00:33:34.880 --> 00:33:37.960
<v Speaker 3>only explanation we're given. But at the end of the day,

516
00:33:38.920 --> 00:33:41.000
<v Speaker 3>the one thing that is known for sure, and this

517
00:33:41.079 --> 00:33:43.640
<v Speaker 3>came out in court because there was a trial for this.

518
00:33:43.640 --> 00:33:47.000
<v Speaker 3>This isn't conspiracy theory speculation of oh I think they

519
00:33:47.039 --> 00:33:49.319
<v Speaker 3>went in and looted, and it was probably us. It

520
00:33:49.359 --> 00:33:52.480
<v Speaker 3>was an inside job. No, it definitely was, and that

521
00:33:52.599 --> 00:33:55.319
<v Speaker 3>was cited in the court hearing. So this is a

522
00:33:56.240 --> 00:33:59.839
<v Speaker 3>settled case already. We did go loot the museum, and

523
00:34:00.400 --> 00:34:04.359
<v Speaker 3>what was taken, though, is believed to have been something

524
00:34:04.400 --> 00:34:06.559
<v Speaker 3>that they knew what they were going for. There was

525
00:34:07.000 --> 00:34:10.559
<v Speaker 3>a list, there was, you know, go here, turn left, here,

526
00:34:10.719 --> 00:34:13.760
<v Speaker 3>take this. It was a very calculated thing. And to

527
00:34:13.960 --> 00:34:16.400
<v Speaker 3>what it is that they have, it's hard to tell,

528
00:34:16.440 --> 00:34:19.440
<v Speaker 3>but it wouldn't be the first time that that museum

529
00:34:19.599 --> 00:34:22.920
<v Speaker 3>or museums like this have been outright looted. In fact,

530
00:34:23.000 --> 00:34:25.320
<v Speaker 3>I write about it in the book. The biggest case

531
00:34:25.760 --> 00:34:28.280
<v Speaker 3>that is just really devastating in a lot of ways

532
00:34:28.760 --> 00:34:35.480
<v Speaker 3>happened in the Baghdad Museum. You have in nineteen eighty

533
00:34:35.559 --> 00:34:44.159
<v Speaker 3>nine a professor who was local there, Professor Muzahim Mahmoud Hussein.

534
00:34:46.000 --> 00:34:52.119
<v Speaker 2>You just spit that one out, almost didn't, almost like

535
00:34:52.199 --> 00:34:55.039
<v Speaker 2>it's the tip of Mike tug. I don't worry about it.

536
00:34:55.039 --> 00:34:56.960
<v Speaker 2>I just say a guy from Iraq.

537
00:34:56.800 --> 00:34:58.599
<v Speaker 3>Well say, professor Hussein.

538
00:35:00.800 --> 00:35:03.039
<v Speaker 2>We're gonna take a short commercial break to allow our

539
00:35:03.039 --> 00:35:07.079
<v Speaker 2>sponsors to identify themselves and we will return shortly with

540
00:35:07.159 --> 00:35:14.199
<v Speaker 2>my guests. Today Heatherland discussing her latest release, an Unaki Revelation,

541
00:35:16.199 --> 00:35:59.960
<v Speaker 2>will be right back. Hey. You know, when this weather

542
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543
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544
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545
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546
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547
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548
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550
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551
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552
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553
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554
00:36:41.920 --> 00:36:47.039
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555
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556
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557
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558
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560
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561
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562
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564
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566
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567
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568
00:37:38.320 --> 00:37:46.320
<v Speaker 2>I think you will too. Doctor Heather lind is my

569
00:37:46.360 --> 00:37:49.800
<v Speaker 2>guest today. She has written a new book called Anorak Revelation,

570
00:37:50.480 --> 00:37:56.000
<v Speaker 2>Hidden History, Altered States in the Mystery of Humanity, and

571
00:37:56.159 --> 00:37:58.400
<v Speaker 2>you got to get this book. It is a new

572
00:37:58.480 --> 00:38:03.960
<v Speaker 2>look at connecting with off world types, not necessarily physically,

573
00:38:04.599 --> 00:38:06.360
<v Speaker 2>through the bending of consciousness.

574
00:38:13.480 --> 00:38:17.360
<v Speaker 3>And so that's an easy one. So Professor Hussein, he

575
00:38:18.400 --> 00:38:21.320
<v Speaker 3>was you know, obviously local to the region, and he

576
00:38:21.440 --> 00:38:25.920
<v Speaker 3>was doing some research with his team and discovered after

577
00:38:26.559 --> 00:38:29.480
<v Speaker 3>the Westerners had left and done their excavations, of course,

578
00:38:29.719 --> 00:38:33.039
<v Speaker 3>or in otherwise, they were finally able to do some

579
00:38:33.119 --> 00:38:36.719
<v Speaker 3>of their own work, and he stumbled upon the site

580
00:38:36.800 --> 00:38:42.000
<v Speaker 3>of Nimrod that had the queen's tombs, and they went

581
00:38:42.079 --> 00:38:47.559
<v Speaker 3>in and excavated and found, get this the largest discovery

582
00:38:47.719 --> 00:38:52.519
<v Speaker 3>of gold since King Tut and so Tut's tomb.

583
00:38:52.719 --> 00:38:55.079
<v Speaker 2>Well like a treasury, or like treasury.

584
00:38:55.239 --> 00:38:59.280
<v Speaker 3>It was the treasury two queen's tombs and many different

585
00:38:59.599 --> 00:39:03.000
<v Speaker 3>gold had dresses in gold. It was beautiful, almost undisturbed,

586
00:39:03.519 --> 00:39:07.440
<v Speaker 3>loads of gold, tons of gold, artifacts and everything you

587
00:39:07.440 --> 00:39:11.119
<v Speaker 3>could imagine. And it's funny how you don't really hear

588
00:39:11.159 --> 00:39:14.079
<v Speaker 3>a lot about that, right, It's like all the gold

589
00:39:14.079 --> 00:39:18.000
<v Speaker 3>that could ever be found, aside from all the treasures

590
00:39:18.119 --> 00:39:21.320
<v Speaker 3>in king text to him, there is this. And so

591
00:39:21.760 --> 00:39:24.239
<v Speaker 3>what happened, Well, what they did, It was nineteen eighty nine,

592
00:39:24.639 --> 00:39:28.840
<v Speaker 3>and this professor, he and his team did due diligence

593
00:39:28.880 --> 00:39:31.639
<v Speaker 3>and exactly what you're supposed to do as a museum professional,

594
00:39:31.679 --> 00:39:37.719
<v Speaker 3>and he photographed and cataloged every single item. And the

595
00:39:37.760 --> 00:39:40.480
<v Speaker 3>next year then there was war. The next year they

596
00:39:40.519 --> 00:39:45.280
<v Speaker 3>had to take everything from their newly acquired collection that

597
00:39:45.320 --> 00:39:47.639
<v Speaker 3>they were working through and they put it in bank

598
00:39:47.760 --> 00:39:54.320
<v Speaker 3>vaults and at the treasury in Iran. Yes, and then

599
00:39:54.320 --> 00:39:58.840
<v Speaker 3>of course, as you could imagine, that's it. They were looted.

600
00:39:59.280 --> 00:40:02.360
<v Speaker 3>They've lost every everything. Now what's even worse in a

601
00:40:02.400 --> 00:40:05.400
<v Speaker 3>lot of ways was Professor Hussein was also missing. He

602
00:40:05.440 --> 00:40:09.400
<v Speaker 3>was last seen in Mosul under duress, and you know,

603
00:40:09.440 --> 00:40:12.239
<v Speaker 3>writing about his family too, and a lot of the

604
00:40:12.239 --> 00:40:15.960
<v Speaker 3>individuals in the individuals over and over again through these

605
00:40:15.960 --> 00:40:21.079
<v Speaker 3>lootings and the bombings. The individuals at the museum are

606
00:40:21.199 --> 00:40:23.480
<v Speaker 3>just some of the biggest heroes, you know, men and

607
00:40:23.519 --> 00:40:26.840
<v Speaker 3>women that stand by these artifacts and even when they're

608
00:40:26.880 --> 00:40:29.320
<v Speaker 3>advised to leave, they stay with them. So we have

609
00:40:29.440 --> 00:40:32.480
<v Speaker 3>people who really cared and tried their very best, but

610
00:40:32.880 --> 00:40:36.000
<v Speaker 3>put their lives on the line. Yet the artifacts were

611
00:40:36.000 --> 00:40:40.519
<v Speaker 3>still stolen. So in that loot Now there's a book.

612
00:40:41.480 --> 00:40:44.039
<v Speaker 3>It was usually it was really expensive until so it's

613
00:40:44.079 --> 00:40:47.000
<v Speaker 3>still not too long ago. There's a PDF version available online.

614
00:40:47.840 --> 00:40:51.800
<v Speaker 3>It's published by the University of Chicago and they published

615
00:40:51.880 --> 00:40:55.400
<v Speaker 3>his work and so you can see pictures. There used

616
00:40:55.440 --> 00:40:58.280
<v Speaker 3>to be pictures in circulation of some of these items.

617
00:40:58.480 --> 00:41:00.880
<v Speaker 3>Many of them are not digitized because it came out

618
00:41:00.880 --> 00:41:03.800
<v Speaker 3>in like the nineties in print and later, and so

619
00:41:03.920 --> 00:41:08.039
<v Speaker 3>many of these things aren't digitized. And it in that

620
00:41:08.480 --> 00:41:13.440
<v Speaker 3>discovery is where I located the so called wristwatches.

621
00:41:12.679 --> 00:41:14.840
<v Speaker 2>Of the Gods of Oh my god.

622
00:41:15.559 --> 00:41:17.960
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, and so I got my hands on the picture

623
00:41:18.280 --> 00:41:20.039
<v Speaker 3>and I put it in the book that Unfortunately the

624
00:41:20.360 --> 00:41:23.719
<v Speaker 3>book didn't have color plates, so it's it's a little underwhelming.

625
00:41:24.119 --> 00:41:26.119
<v Speaker 3>But you can go my substack and look for it

626
00:41:26.119 --> 00:41:29.920
<v Speaker 3>and the pictures there because they're beautiful. They're beautiful and

627
00:41:30.159 --> 00:41:34.800
<v Speaker 3>important too, because in a way, maybe those conspiracy theorists

628
00:41:34.800 --> 00:41:37.760
<v Speaker 3>were right that they were like teleportation devices or something

629
00:41:37.800 --> 00:41:39.280
<v Speaker 3>to that effect. But that's uh.

630
00:41:42.320 --> 00:41:46.480
<v Speaker 2>A little bit because you bring those appears worried, yeah, devices.

631
00:41:46.840 --> 00:41:50.559
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, So basically all of these artifacts were just gone.

632
00:41:50.599 --> 00:41:52.280
<v Speaker 3>Some of them came back. We don't know where others

633
00:41:52.280 --> 00:41:55.039
<v Speaker 3>have gone. It's just a whole mess. But they lost

634
00:41:55.440 --> 00:41:58.639
<v Speaker 3>a ton and because of the war and as you

635
00:41:58.760 --> 00:42:01.800
<v Speaker 3>as you can imagine. And so, but there is there

636
00:42:01.880 --> 00:42:05.400
<v Speaker 3>is research that is very valuable. And when I dug

637
00:42:05.400 --> 00:42:09.519
<v Speaker 3>into that and new upon intended the words of the

638
00:42:09.519 --> 00:42:13.079
<v Speaker 3>professor himself. Remember he wrote this in both English and Arabic,

639
00:42:13.400 --> 00:42:15.039
<v Speaker 3>and so he wrote this in English, so there's no

640
00:42:15.679 --> 00:42:18.800
<v Speaker 3>you know, it's his words, and it's stunning. Then some

641
00:42:18.840 --> 00:42:22.880
<v Speaker 3>of the discoveries and his interpretations and analysis that come

642
00:42:22.920 --> 00:42:26.519
<v Speaker 3>about that you don't really hear in the West or

643
00:42:26.639 --> 00:42:29.599
<v Speaker 3>even now, and especially when you consider what I call

644
00:42:29.639 --> 00:42:32.760
<v Speaker 3>on Naki Inc. Which is like a whole industry spreading

645
00:42:32.760 --> 00:42:35.559
<v Speaker 3>on a Naki stories and so a lot of it's

646
00:42:35.599 --> 00:42:37.920
<v Speaker 3>even covered up by that. So my goal was to

647
00:42:38.280 --> 00:42:43.960
<v Speaker 3>literally uncover the truth behind what happened in Sumer in

648
00:42:44.079 --> 00:42:48.559
<v Speaker 3>Iraq later of course, and the story of the Anaki altogether.

649
00:42:49.400 --> 00:42:55.599
<v Speaker 2>Wow, you know, bringing it forward. Those items, those artifacts

650
00:42:55.599 --> 00:42:58.920
<v Speaker 2>were probably gone forever, you know. Yeah, and because I

651
00:42:58.960 --> 00:43:01.880
<v Speaker 2>don't see unless you know something about a commission that's

652
00:43:01.920 --> 00:43:07.159
<v Speaker 2>been put together to try to reacquire the looting, but

653
00:43:07.320 --> 00:43:09.679
<v Speaker 2>that's gone, you know. I mean, look today you go

654
00:43:09.719 --> 00:43:12.320
<v Speaker 2>to the British Museum, you go to the Louver and

655
00:43:12.400 --> 00:43:16.239
<v Speaker 2>you see Egyptian artifacts that they're desperate to get back,

656
00:43:16.280 --> 00:43:22.079
<v Speaker 2>but they're not giving them up. That's a weird one.

657
00:43:22.199 --> 00:43:24.599
<v Speaker 3>I was just at the Cleveland Museum of Art and

658
00:43:24.639 --> 00:43:28.000
<v Speaker 3>the Boston Museum of Fine Arts, and in both places

659
00:43:28.760 --> 00:43:31.360
<v Speaker 3>they had a lot of exhibits that were either missing

660
00:43:31.519 --> 00:43:34.760
<v Speaker 3>items because of those arguments, or in some cases I

661
00:43:34.800 --> 00:43:38.000
<v Speaker 3>thought this was kind of funny really they had at

662
00:43:38.039 --> 00:43:41.320
<v Speaker 3>Boston they put blankets over some of the displays like

663
00:43:41.400 --> 00:43:45.920
<v Speaker 3>these are contested, so you can't see them. You know,

664
00:43:46.079 --> 00:43:49.320
<v Speaker 3>I thought that was a little corny, but like we

665
00:43:49.440 --> 00:43:53.760
<v Speaker 3>have them, we're investigating their origins. There's court cases, so

666
00:43:53.840 --> 00:43:58.199
<v Speaker 3>you can't lay your eyes on them. Okay, funny too.

667
00:43:59.679 --> 00:44:04.000
<v Speaker 2>I want to get into the cuneiform interpretations because and

668
00:44:04.199 --> 00:44:05.880
<v Speaker 2>this is going to lead us into the next section

669
00:44:06.039 --> 00:44:12.360
<v Speaker 2>of your wonderful book on cognition. And I wonder if

670
00:44:13.440 --> 00:44:17.880
<v Speaker 2>the interpretations that consumers were putting down on these tablets

671
00:44:18.559 --> 00:44:23.880
<v Speaker 2>were of cognitive enhancements and evolutionary type of thing. And

672
00:44:23.880 --> 00:44:27.800
<v Speaker 2>we're going to get into the role of psychedelics here

673
00:44:27.800 --> 00:44:30.119
<v Speaker 2>in a second, but do you get a sense of

674
00:44:30.159 --> 00:44:36.920
<v Speaker 2>that in the cuneiforms that they're actually describing states of consciousness?

675
00:44:38.039 --> 00:44:42.800
<v Speaker 3>I do. And because they were priests and physicians, that

676
00:44:43.199 --> 00:44:47.559
<v Speaker 3>wasn't a separate category. So for them, healing and medicine

677
00:44:48.039 --> 00:44:50.840
<v Speaker 3>involved the spiritual world. And so as I wrote about

678
00:44:50.920 --> 00:44:54.360
<v Speaker 3>years ago in Evil Archaeology talking about some of the

679
00:44:54.599 --> 00:44:58.159
<v Speaker 3>exorcism rights, that had to do with basically things that

680
00:44:58.159 --> 00:45:00.280
<v Speaker 3>we would see in pop culture where it was you know,

681
00:45:00.320 --> 00:45:02.519
<v Speaker 3>the patient is it would be the patient or the

682
00:45:02.559 --> 00:45:06.280
<v Speaker 3>afflicted person. It would be maybe writhing and having all

683
00:45:06.280 --> 00:45:08.239
<v Speaker 3>these things, and then the priests would say you know

684
00:45:08.280 --> 00:45:10.119
<v Speaker 3>what it is, your name demon, and you'd have to

685
00:45:10.119 --> 00:45:12.119
<v Speaker 3>know the name. But the name it wasn't just some

686
00:45:12.159 --> 00:45:15.480
<v Speaker 3>sort of spiritual warfare thing. It was an early diagnostic

687
00:45:15.559 --> 00:45:17.960
<v Speaker 3>tool because if you knew which demon it was that

688
00:45:18.000 --> 00:45:20.920
<v Speaker 3>this person was afflicted with, then you knew the different

689
00:45:21.079 --> 00:45:23.880
<v Speaker 3>potions and pills and processes that you could use to

690
00:45:24.119 --> 00:45:28.440
<v Speaker 3>heal that person. And so the medicine and the mind

691
00:45:28.480 --> 00:45:31.199
<v Speaker 3>it wasn't separate at the time. And so there's many

692
00:45:31.199 --> 00:45:34.719
<v Speaker 3>different medical end exorcism textbooks that go through this line

693
00:45:34.760 --> 00:45:38.800
<v Speaker 3>by line and discuss formulas for literally pills, because they

694
00:45:38.800 --> 00:45:44.159
<v Speaker 3>made pills and salves and different medicines like that. So definitely,

695
00:45:44.199 --> 00:45:48.079
<v Speaker 3>without a doubt, they had so much writing and so

696
00:45:48.159 --> 00:45:53.119
<v Speaker 3>much instruction, and in that though is included things that

697
00:45:53.800 --> 00:45:57.519
<v Speaker 3>were known to elevate the person's psyche in some way,

698
00:45:57.639 --> 00:46:00.000
<v Speaker 3>shape or form. And that was one that I found

699
00:46:00.400 --> 00:46:03.000
<v Speaker 3>out about in my own research and that I put

700
00:46:03.039 --> 00:46:06.239
<v Speaker 3>in the book. And that's the whole gill which was

701
00:46:06.320 --> 00:46:10.280
<v Speaker 3>known as the joy plant, which was poppy, So we

702
00:46:10.360 --> 00:46:12.840
<v Speaker 3>know that that's an opioid and they were using opium

703
00:46:13.320 --> 00:46:14.800
<v Speaker 3>and they thought very highly of it.

704
00:46:16.480 --> 00:46:23.360
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, the Sumerians really appear as a highly educated society

705
00:46:24.239 --> 00:46:27.440
<v Speaker 2>with all these cuteiforms. You have to wonder if you

706
00:46:27.440 --> 00:46:30.000
<v Speaker 2>you go down a street block and there's like a

707
00:46:30.159 --> 00:46:33.079
<v Speaker 2>rack of cuneiforms. You're reading the daily mail, you know,

708
00:46:33.199 --> 00:46:37.639
<v Speaker 2>the daily news, but there's there's so small, you know,

709
00:46:37.880 --> 00:46:39.559
<v Speaker 2>like but some of them are big, some of are

710
00:46:39.559 --> 00:46:41.760
<v Speaker 2>as big as your hands. So you got to wonder

711
00:46:42.519 --> 00:46:47.480
<v Speaker 2>how how they utilize, uh, the cuneiforms other than as

712
00:46:47.519 --> 00:46:49.960
<v Speaker 2>a resource. You know, it's kind of funny.

713
00:46:49.960 --> 00:46:52.840
<v Speaker 3>Well, it's really cool that the cylinder seals themselves, or

714
00:46:53.360 --> 00:46:55.519
<v Speaker 3>I have one that I usually take and show people

715
00:46:55.599 --> 00:46:59.159
<v Speaker 3>that's they're sort of small, maybe like like about that big,

716
00:46:59.639 --> 00:47:02.599
<v Speaker 3>and they have a hole drilled in them, so they

717
00:47:02.599 --> 00:47:05.199
<v Speaker 3>almost are like beads. And that was by design because

718
00:47:05.239 --> 00:47:08.480
<v Speaker 3>they would use a lot of those and string them

719
00:47:08.519 --> 00:47:11.400
<v Speaker 3>and carry them with them so that they could like print.

720
00:47:11.920 --> 00:47:15.760
<v Speaker 3>It's sort of like a very ancient flash drive. So

721
00:47:15.840 --> 00:47:18.960
<v Speaker 3>on the cuneiform you would have the information you're trying

722
00:47:19.000 --> 00:47:21.119
<v Speaker 3>to share with somebody else or take with you, and

723
00:47:21.159 --> 00:47:24.440
<v Speaker 3>you could replicate that. Then if somebody had clay, you

724
00:47:24.440 --> 00:47:26.440
<v Speaker 3>would just roll that out. And so it'd be easy

725
00:47:26.760 --> 00:47:29.320
<v Speaker 3>to not just take the tablets with you, but instead

726
00:47:29.360 --> 00:47:31.239
<v Speaker 3>you could take the source material with you. You took

727
00:47:31.280 --> 00:47:33.559
<v Speaker 3>the cylinder seals, and because they were like beads and

728
00:47:33.599 --> 00:47:36.360
<v Speaker 3>you could wear them or have them, and then you

729
00:47:36.400 --> 00:47:38.599
<v Speaker 3>needed to communicate, you could roll it right out.

730
00:47:39.239 --> 00:47:41.719
<v Speaker 2>Wow. I love that idea. I don't want to give

731
00:47:41.719 --> 00:47:43.400
<v Speaker 2>them too much of the bookway, but I'm going to

732
00:47:43.920 --> 00:47:46.880
<v Speaker 2>drop this one bomb which blows me away, which is

733
00:47:48.239 --> 00:47:51.039
<v Speaker 2>I want you to describe what an ultra terrestrial is,

734
00:47:51.920 --> 00:47:54.599
<v Speaker 2>and then we're going to get into details. Because most

735
00:47:54.599 --> 00:48:00.519
<v Speaker 2>people think of the ananaki as Ets extraterrestrial be who

736
00:48:00.719 --> 00:48:05.639
<v Speaker 2>came to Earth enslaved humans, made highbrids that would work

737
00:48:05.679 --> 00:48:10.199
<v Speaker 2>for them, dug deep tunnels, and you know, took gold

738
00:48:10.239 --> 00:48:14.239
<v Speaker 2>and other precious metals, and you know that's the typical story.

739
00:48:14.320 --> 00:48:19.360
<v Speaker 2>But you have a completely different take on it, which

740
00:48:19.400 --> 00:48:22.519
<v Speaker 2>I think is pretty significant. And I want you to

741
00:48:22.559 --> 00:48:25.440
<v Speaker 2>describe the ultra terrestrial.

742
00:48:27.199 --> 00:48:31.039
<v Speaker 3>Well, it does sort of go to my core thesis

743
00:48:31.079 --> 00:48:34.800
<v Speaker 3>overall that has come about after writing The Unannachy Connection,

744
00:48:34.920 --> 00:48:39.119
<v Speaker 3>where initially I was just looking into the phenomenon itself,

745
00:48:39.599 --> 00:48:43.280
<v Speaker 3>and people would email me and ask me questions and

746
00:48:43.320 --> 00:48:45.559
<v Speaker 3>what do I think of stargates and this sort of thing,

747
00:48:45.639 --> 00:48:48.519
<v Speaker 3>and I'd say, like stargate SG one. I'm not really

748
00:48:48.840 --> 00:48:52.079
<v Speaker 3>I don't know. I didn't take it here and I

749
00:48:52.159 --> 00:48:54.480
<v Speaker 3>wasn't even I didn't even read sitchens work. I didn't

750
00:48:54.480 --> 00:48:56.880
<v Speaker 3>really know what was going on there, and so I

751
00:48:56.960 --> 00:49:00.800
<v Speaker 3>came from a more traditional view of it. But I

752
00:49:00.880 --> 00:49:04.559
<v Speaker 3>did notice, though, in following the money and all of that,

753
00:49:04.760 --> 00:49:07.679
<v Speaker 3>the tons of corruption and interest that were involved, and

754
00:49:07.719 --> 00:49:10.960
<v Speaker 3>that was what pulled me in to the point where eventually,

755
00:49:11.000 --> 00:49:14.440
<v Speaker 3>instead of trying to answer the question of are there stargates,

756
00:49:14.880 --> 00:49:19.320
<v Speaker 3>it's hold on what is a stargate? What is it actually?

757
00:49:19.360 --> 00:49:22.920
<v Speaker 3>And so I started asking different questions and I shared

758
00:49:23.000 --> 00:49:25.480
<v Speaker 3>those things and those lines of thoughts in my initial book.

759
00:49:26.000 --> 00:49:29.400
<v Speaker 3>But as frustrating as it maybe for a reader, you

760
00:49:29.400 --> 00:49:31.679
<v Speaker 3>can imagine myself at the end of the book, I

761
00:49:31.679 --> 00:49:34.280
<v Speaker 3>had more questions than I had answers, and I started

762
00:49:34.320 --> 00:49:36.760
<v Speaker 3>to think about things in a different way. And over

763
00:49:36.800 --> 00:49:39.039
<v Speaker 3>the years then I started more and more research and

764
00:49:39.159 --> 00:49:42.039
<v Speaker 3>interviewing people talking about it and everything you could imagine,

765
00:49:42.360 --> 00:49:45.840
<v Speaker 3>and I have developed I suppose I hate to be

766
00:49:45.880 --> 00:49:48.199
<v Speaker 3>one of those people too, because I was like, I'm

767
00:49:48.239 --> 00:49:50.079
<v Speaker 3>just going to do a historiography, look at what other

768
00:49:50.119 --> 00:49:53.000
<v Speaker 3>people have to say. But then I became a person

769
00:49:53.000 --> 00:49:54.639
<v Speaker 3>that I do have my own pet theory, and that's

770
00:49:54.679 --> 00:49:56.719
<v Speaker 3>sort of what this book goes into, and that is

771
00:49:57.920 --> 00:50:00.760
<v Speaker 3>because I just couldn't not at this point. I started

772
00:50:00.760 --> 00:50:05.239
<v Speaker 3>seeing all these connections and I saw that what looks

773
00:50:05.280 --> 00:50:07.760
<v Speaker 3>to me like when you as opposed to looking at

774
00:50:07.760 --> 00:50:11.960
<v Speaker 3>the tertiary sources, try to go right to the primary sources.

775
00:50:12.400 --> 00:50:15.239
<v Speaker 3>So you don't have to read Samaran either to be

776
00:50:15.280 --> 00:50:17.440
<v Speaker 3>able to do that, although we can. We have a

777
00:50:17.480 --> 00:50:21.639
<v Speaker 3>lot of resources online available to start to understand their language.

778
00:50:21.679 --> 00:50:24.239
<v Speaker 3>So it's not as esoteric as it would seem. So

779
00:50:24.280 --> 00:50:27.119
<v Speaker 3>we have a lot of tools, but just to go

780
00:50:27.199 --> 00:50:30.840
<v Speaker 3>back to some of the primary sources and what they

781
00:50:30.840 --> 00:50:34.239
<v Speaker 3>had to say about their own experiences when reading it

782
00:50:34.280 --> 00:50:38.039
<v Speaker 3>through that lens and trusting them too, not saying, well,

783
00:50:38.079 --> 00:50:41.320
<v Speaker 3>you know, these are primitive people and they were just

784
00:50:41.360 --> 00:50:43.960
<v Speaker 3>superstitious and they're talking all kinds of nonsense, and say,

785
00:50:44.039 --> 00:50:47.159
<v Speaker 3>you know what, it's my job to understand what it

786
00:50:47.199 --> 00:50:50.079
<v Speaker 3>is they're saying. They weren't communicating with me, they were

787
00:50:50.079 --> 00:50:52.920
<v Speaker 3>communicating with each other, and so I have to be

788
00:50:52.960 --> 00:50:55.280
<v Speaker 3>the one to go that mile to break through that barrier.

789
00:50:55.679 --> 00:50:58.559
<v Speaker 3>And in doing so, I saw what started to emerge

790
00:50:58.639 --> 00:51:01.599
<v Speaker 3>to be almost a very human story. So when you

791
00:51:01.639 --> 00:51:04.320
<v Speaker 3>take the Onanaki and you consider what was said about

792
00:51:04.360 --> 00:51:08.400
<v Speaker 3>them and their experience, it looks to me, and again

793
00:51:08.400 --> 00:51:10.800
<v Speaker 3>I have lots of what I would consider evidence or

794
00:51:10.800 --> 00:51:14.320
<v Speaker 3>support in the book that what we're looking at is

795
00:51:15.320 --> 00:51:19.320
<v Speaker 3>essentially the meeting of two different peoples. So you have,

796
00:51:20.000 --> 00:51:22.360
<v Speaker 3>as I've mentioned, the semi subtled hunter gatherers that were

797
00:51:22.440 --> 00:51:26.039
<v Speaker 3>known to be in Mesopotamia at the time, and then

798
00:51:26.079 --> 00:51:29.519
<v Speaker 3>you have these invaders that come in and they have

799
00:51:29.679 --> 00:51:34.559
<v Speaker 3>been said to been having their own royal blood, princely seed.

800
00:51:35.079 --> 00:51:38.480
<v Speaker 3>They came from above to below. All of those interpretations

801
00:51:38.480 --> 00:51:42.559
<v Speaker 3>of what the Onanaki means in terms of etymology, But

802
00:51:42.800 --> 00:51:45.519
<v Speaker 3>when you look at how they refer to themselves and

803
00:51:46.719 --> 00:51:49.480
<v Speaker 3>comparing themselves to the Anonachi, they called themselves the black

804
00:51:49.519 --> 00:51:53.519
<v Speaker 3>headed ones, which is notable because if these individuals had

805
00:51:53.639 --> 00:51:56.079
<v Speaker 3>dark hair, then why would you have to say that

806
00:51:56.119 --> 00:51:58.880
<v Speaker 3>you were the ones that dark hair? Thus they aren't,

807
00:51:59.400 --> 00:52:02.239
<v Speaker 3>so that's a notable thing. They were also described as

808
00:52:02.239 --> 00:52:04.199
<v Speaker 3>the atoma, like where we get the idea of Adam

809
00:52:04.280 --> 00:52:08.719
<v Speaker 3>or Adam and Eve. The atoma is usually interpreted as

810
00:52:08.840 --> 00:52:13.679
<v Speaker 3>meaning like clay or earth because in the Abrahamic tradition,

811
00:52:14.360 --> 00:52:17.960
<v Speaker 3>mostly Judaism and Islam. You hear that emphasis of God

812
00:52:18.039 --> 00:52:20.960
<v Speaker 3>making Adam the first man out of the clay of

813
00:52:21.000 --> 00:52:24.039
<v Speaker 3>the earth, sort of forming him almost like a statue

814
00:52:24.119 --> 00:52:27.519
<v Speaker 3>or something. So that's where that word comes from. But

815
00:52:27.559 --> 00:52:29.840
<v Speaker 3>if you really look at what it's talking about, it's

816
00:52:29.840 --> 00:52:33.719
<v Speaker 3>not just any clay. It's specifically the red clay of

817
00:52:33.760 --> 00:52:37.639
<v Speaker 3>that particular soil in that region, and that particular clay

818
00:52:37.679 --> 00:52:40.119
<v Speaker 3>that Atoma, is very red, so much so that the

819
00:52:40.159 --> 00:52:43.199
<v Speaker 3>word then for red lader is associated with that word.

820
00:52:43.519 --> 00:52:47.880
<v Speaker 3>And what you find with the hunter gatherers from the

821
00:52:48.000 --> 00:52:53.119
<v Speaker 3>culture before that they have burials of them. Their funerary

822
00:52:53.280 --> 00:52:57.159
<v Speaker 3>rites involved rubbing down the entire body with this red ochre,

823
00:52:57.599 --> 00:53:00.400
<v Speaker 3>which is not a typical human behavior. So if you

824
00:53:00.480 --> 00:53:03.199
<v Speaker 3>consider that these were the red people red because they

825
00:53:03.199 --> 00:53:06.000
<v Speaker 3>were rubbing themselves down with this very specific color of

826
00:53:06.039 --> 00:53:08.920
<v Speaker 3>red clay from the region. They may have had dark hair.

827
00:53:09.599 --> 00:53:12.880
<v Speaker 3>We know from their remains that they reached about five

828
00:53:12.920 --> 00:53:16.599
<v Speaker 3>foot tall, so as one would expect from hunter gatherers.

829
00:53:17.800 --> 00:53:20.280
<v Speaker 3>And if they came encounter with who they called the

830
00:53:20.320 --> 00:53:24.239
<v Speaker 3>Shining ones and who were larger, you know, we say giants,

831
00:53:24.320 --> 00:53:26.880
<v Speaker 3>but you know, we don't have to go to jolly

832
00:53:26.920 --> 00:53:29.920
<v Speaker 3>green giant. We can say, well, if you're five foot

833
00:53:30.559 --> 00:53:33.360
<v Speaker 3>tall and maybe there's a six foot person that could

834
00:53:33.360 --> 00:53:35.679
<v Speaker 3>be giant. But we have to look at as in

835
00:53:35.719 --> 00:53:38.800
<v Speaker 3>the stories, what's happening to them? They are made to

836
00:53:39.599 --> 00:53:43.119
<v Speaker 3>work for these on Anaki And it's almost like in

837
00:53:43.159 --> 00:53:47.119
<v Speaker 3>my view the Cargo cult, that these weren't necessarily gods,

838
00:53:47.159 --> 00:53:50.280
<v Speaker 3>these were deified humans. Where did they come from and

839
00:53:50.320 --> 00:53:54.280
<v Speaker 3>why were they there? How are they shining? Then then

840
00:53:54.320 --> 00:53:58.039
<v Speaker 3>I have to consider the impact of the Younger Dryest

841
00:53:58.679 --> 00:54:01.000
<v Speaker 3>period and what may have and then when you have

842
00:54:01.320 --> 00:54:05.639
<v Speaker 3>essentially climate refugees looking back at those key dates and

843
00:54:05.719 --> 00:54:09.719
<v Speaker 3>considering all of the different ways that individuals could have

844
00:54:09.719 --> 00:54:12.599
<v Speaker 3>been traveling. And again now it's not just through artifacts,

845
00:54:12.599 --> 00:54:15.360
<v Speaker 3>it's through DNA evidence coming out of Harvard that shows

846
00:54:15.639 --> 00:54:19.559
<v Speaker 3>something very similar was happening after the Younger Dryas. So,

847
00:54:19.679 --> 00:54:22.360
<v Speaker 3>for instance, when we think of Sumer being the land

848
00:54:22.400 --> 00:54:24.599
<v Speaker 3>of all the firsts, and I've even put that in

849
00:54:24.639 --> 00:54:26.440
<v Speaker 3>my previous book, and I used to teach that in

850
00:54:26.440 --> 00:54:30.079
<v Speaker 3>my class. Unfortunately I have to step back and say, no,

851
00:54:30.920 --> 00:54:34.280
<v Speaker 3>that's not true. They weren't the land of first They

852
00:54:34.280 --> 00:54:39.760
<v Speaker 3>were the land of many firsts, but mostly a confluence.

853
00:54:40.280 --> 00:54:43.880
<v Speaker 3>So for instance, the wheel. We see evidence for things

854
00:54:43.920 --> 00:54:47.079
<v Speaker 3>like the wheel, the horse, and chariot, even gold metallurgy

855
00:54:48.000 --> 00:54:51.760
<v Speaker 3>farther into Eastern Europe in different cultures going back thousands

856
00:54:51.800 --> 00:54:56.199
<v Speaker 3>of years previous. So they've been misattributed. Even Samuel nah

857
00:54:56.239 --> 00:55:00.199
<v Speaker 3>Kramer walked back a lot of his statements about that.

858
00:55:00.199 --> 00:55:02.719
<v Speaker 3>That's not to say that the Sumerians weren't absolutely amazing

859
00:55:02.719 --> 00:55:04.679
<v Speaker 3>and did all the things they did. It's just to say,

860
00:55:04.679 --> 00:55:07.079
<v Speaker 3>wait a minute, what are we really looking at here?

861
00:55:07.400 --> 00:55:10.280
<v Speaker 3>Are we looking at the beginning of a civilization or

862
00:55:10.280 --> 00:55:13.719
<v Speaker 3>are we looking at the remembrance of civilization? And so

863
00:55:13.800 --> 00:55:18.599
<v Speaker 3>I argue that the Onnaki, as they were understood, were

864
00:55:18.679 --> 00:55:22.760
<v Speaker 3>the survivors of a cataclysm that came through and maybe,

865
00:55:22.800 --> 00:55:26.199
<v Speaker 3>as Graham Hancock would have called it, civilization X. But

866
00:55:26.239 --> 00:55:28.760
<v Speaker 3>now you get this weird question of what are all

867
00:55:28.760 --> 00:55:31.719
<v Speaker 3>these things though they're like gods? And you know if

868
00:55:31.760 --> 00:55:34.280
<v Speaker 3>you google Anonaki you're going to find these images of

869
00:55:34.559 --> 00:55:37.960
<v Speaker 3>bird men. Well, firstly, it's important to know that those

870
00:55:37.960 --> 00:55:40.800
<v Speaker 3>aren't the Ananaki, those are the app Kalu. And this

871
00:55:40.840 --> 00:55:44.039
<v Speaker 3>is where it gets interesting, because every piece of evidence

872
00:55:44.039 --> 00:55:46.480
<v Speaker 3>that I could find really just showed that the Annaki

873
00:55:46.559 --> 00:55:51.280
<v Speaker 3>were much more human like. But the app Callu were

874
00:55:51.320 --> 00:55:55.480
<v Speaker 3>explicitly thought to be semi biological entities, and they play

875
00:55:55.519 --> 00:55:58.280
<v Speaker 3>a huge role in the belief system of not only

876
00:55:58.320 --> 00:56:01.519
<v Speaker 3>the Anaki, whose names sort of means lord at least

877
00:56:01.599 --> 00:56:06.519
<v Speaker 3>later developed to mean lord, the oup Collu were very different.

878
00:56:07.000 --> 00:56:08.639
<v Speaker 3>They were said to have come out of the ocean.

879
00:56:08.760 --> 00:56:10.320
<v Speaker 3>They were said to have come out of the sky.

880
00:56:10.920 --> 00:56:14.360
<v Speaker 3>They were light beings, they were fish men, very much

881
00:56:14.519 --> 00:56:18.679
<v Speaker 3>like the One's and they were associated with that. They

882
00:56:18.679 --> 00:56:24.559
<v Speaker 3>were compared to the seven Pleiadi and star system the

883
00:56:24.639 --> 00:56:27.280
<v Speaker 3>number seven. They were known as the seven Sages and

884
00:56:27.360 --> 00:56:30.840
<v Speaker 3>so on. Each of the on naki had one of

885
00:56:30.880 --> 00:56:36.000
<v Speaker 3>these sages designated to them. And so when you look

886
00:56:36.000 --> 00:56:38.360
<v Speaker 3>at the motifs, then you start to see something different.

887
00:56:38.440 --> 00:56:41.679
<v Speaker 3>You see on Naki which looks very human. Yes, they

888
00:56:41.719 --> 00:56:44.199
<v Speaker 3>may have been larger in status, but you know that

889
00:56:44.440 --> 00:56:46.760
<v Speaker 3>is what it is. But then you see these up Kallu,

890
00:56:47.000 --> 00:56:50.760
<v Speaker 3>and they're usually the ones that are holding those those handbags.

891
00:56:51.000 --> 00:56:53.960
<v Speaker 3>They have the pine cone and often they're doing something

892
00:56:54.000 --> 00:56:56.840
<v Speaker 3>with that pine cone. What it looks like they're doing

893
00:56:57.360 --> 00:57:01.840
<v Speaker 3>is something ritualistic or some to write, and they're doing it,

894
00:57:01.920 --> 00:57:05.079
<v Speaker 3>usually to the king or the Ananaki in this case,

895
00:57:05.920 --> 00:57:07.519
<v Speaker 3>and then you have to say, well, wait a minute,

896
00:57:07.559 --> 00:57:11.119
<v Speaker 3>and then go through the entire text again and understand that,

897
00:57:11.159 --> 00:57:16.400
<v Speaker 3>in addition to possibly being the survivors of a cataclysm

898
00:57:16.639 --> 00:57:21.559
<v Speaker 3>of a breakaway civilization, as their earliest Noah's Ark story

899
00:57:21.599 --> 00:57:25.480
<v Speaker 3>actually tells us. In the Sumerian account of their Noah's Arc,

900
00:57:26.880 --> 00:57:30.280
<v Speaker 3>the Noah character doesn't take his family. He goes and

901
00:57:30.320 --> 00:57:35.079
<v Speaker 3>finds each scientist and some person who represents the highest

902
00:57:35.360 --> 00:57:39.199
<v Speaker 3>accomplishments in the arts and sciences, gathers them and quote,

903
00:57:39.360 --> 00:57:42.239
<v Speaker 3>the animals of the Step, not all the animals of

904
00:57:42.280 --> 00:57:44.679
<v Speaker 3>the world, the animals of the Step. So these were

905
00:57:44.800 --> 00:57:47.320
<v Speaker 3>Step people, and what they were doing was creating a

906
00:57:47.360 --> 00:57:51.400
<v Speaker 3>nomadic group who would be able to survive displacement. And

907
00:57:51.440 --> 00:57:53.679
<v Speaker 3>that would be important because we see that with nomadic

908
00:57:53.719 --> 00:57:56.159
<v Speaker 3>people what they've been able to do with those animals.

909
00:57:56.840 --> 00:58:00.920
<v Speaker 3>They're a food source. You would unfortunately say in our minds,

910
00:58:01.000 --> 00:58:03.039
<v Speaker 3>you would be able to bleed those animals to get

911
00:58:03.039 --> 00:58:05.480
<v Speaker 3>the nutrition. Those animals then don't die, you can keep

912
00:58:05.519 --> 00:58:08.000
<v Speaker 3>them going. Of course, that's where we get cheese. The

913
00:58:08.000 --> 00:58:11.519
<v Speaker 3>invention of discovery of cheese through the rennet and the

914
00:58:11.639 --> 00:58:13.800
<v Speaker 3>enzymes and the stomach as it's being stored, which is

915
00:58:13.840 --> 00:58:18.199
<v Speaker 3>a huge protein source, you know. So this is an

916
00:58:18.280 --> 00:58:21.519
<v Speaker 3>established thing of people in the Eurasian step, is that

917
00:58:21.559 --> 00:58:25.639
<v Speaker 3>they were robust and healthy and larger in stature, and

918
00:58:25.760 --> 00:58:28.639
<v Speaker 3>had dairy and meat and animal products, and they were nomadic.

919
00:58:29.239 --> 00:58:31.800
<v Speaker 3>So in the story that the Sumerians account for, which

920
00:58:31.840 --> 00:58:35.199
<v Speaker 3>is like a Noah's art predecessor, they discussed the animals

921
00:58:35.199 --> 00:58:37.880
<v Speaker 3>of the step being taken, and all of these individuals

922
00:58:37.920 --> 00:58:41.719
<v Speaker 3>who saw the signs in the sky were gathering up

923
00:58:42.280 --> 00:58:45.519
<v Speaker 3>and walking away and trying to find new ground, and

924
00:58:45.599 --> 00:58:48.960
<v Speaker 3>they settled on a mountaintop and then came down. Of course,

925
00:58:49.000 --> 00:58:53.119
<v Speaker 3>the gods settle in mountaintops, right, So, but with them

926
00:58:53.320 --> 00:58:57.960
<v Speaker 3>came their knowledge of science, their knowledge of culture, their

927
00:58:58.000 --> 00:59:02.480
<v Speaker 3>knowledge of civilization, which would include religion or their spiritual beliefs.

928
00:59:03.159 --> 00:59:07.079
<v Speaker 3>And it is my belief that that is what we

929
00:59:07.159 --> 00:59:10.400
<v Speaker 3>see poking out of all of these Sumerian myths is

930
00:59:10.440 --> 00:59:15.880
<v Speaker 3>the fastigial tale, if you will, of the lost Antediluvian

931
00:59:16.519 --> 00:59:19.079
<v Speaker 3>religious or spiritual belief m.

932
00:59:22.159 --> 00:59:24.519
<v Speaker 2>We're going to take a short commercial break to allow

933
00:59:24.880 --> 00:59:29.000
<v Speaker 2>our sponsors to identify themselves and will return shortly with

934
00:59:29.079 --> 00:59:35.239
<v Speaker 2>my guests today, Heatherland discussing her new release, Anunaki Revelation,

935
00:59:37.639 --> 01:00:23.960
<v Speaker 2>will be right back with you. My guest today is

936
01:00:24.000 --> 01:00:26.079
<v Speaker 2>doctor Heather Lynn, who has written a new book on

937
01:00:26.119 --> 01:00:30.679
<v Speaker 2>the Anonachi called Anonachi Revelation. This is a new look

938
01:00:30.679 --> 01:00:36.599
<v Speaker 2>at how the Sumerian culture was inspired and likely educated

939
01:00:37.079 --> 01:00:46.400
<v Speaker 2>by these extraterrestrial beings. That's great because that's that's the

940
01:00:46.440 --> 01:00:49.599
<v Speaker 2>whole pre flood story, you know, before the flood and

941
01:00:49.639 --> 01:00:53.760
<v Speaker 2>then after the flood. I love that. I want to

942
01:00:53.800 --> 01:00:58.639
<v Speaker 2>talk about what you call the psychedelic gateway, which is

943
01:00:58.639 --> 01:01:02.480
<v Speaker 2>this is a huge, huge jump that Hugh discovered, I think,

944
01:01:03.039 --> 01:01:05.920
<v Speaker 2>which is an important part of your research, and that

945
01:01:06.079 --> 01:01:14.519
<v Speaker 2>is through psychedelic travel using mushrooms, they're connecting with this

946
01:01:14.639 --> 01:01:19.840
<v Speaker 2>higher level of consciousness and this is the transmission of information.

947
01:01:21.320 --> 01:01:25.239
<v Speaker 2>So give us a kind of an understanding of your

948
01:01:25.280 --> 01:01:29.119
<v Speaker 2>research and why your belief isn't it it's not so

949
01:01:29.239 --> 01:01:36.360
<v Speaker 2>much physical contact but consciousness, consciousness or a link that is.

950
01:01:36.679 --> 01:01:39.199
<v Speaker 2>And I'm guessing that you found some of this in

951
01:01:39.360 --> 01:01:43.480
<v Speaker 2>cuneiform basis, and I don't know how you would read

952
01:01:43.519 --> 01:01:45.719
<v Speaker 2>that if they were saying I was in a ceremony

953
01:01:46.000 --> 01:01:49.320
<v Speaker 2>and this is what came through or something like that.

954
01:01:49.440 --> 01:01:52.360
<v Speaker 2>But I'm just curious about how that was discovered because

955
01:01:52.400 --> 01:01:55.960
<v Speaker 2>it's a huge that's a huge one, Heather. Yeah, it's

956
01:01:56.000 --> 01:01:58.840
<v Speaker 2>not like, Hey, I was dancing to the tulips and

957
01:01:58.880 --> 01:02:01.480
<v Speaker 2>this is what came up. Oh, this is a big deal.

958
01:02:01.960 --> 01:02:06.039
<v Speaker 3>Well, doing across cultural analysis of what they saw, what

959
01:02:06.079 --> 01:02:09.199
<v Speaker 3>their gods were, like, how there's seemingly a golden thread

960
01:02:10.199 --> 01:02:13.960
<v Speaker 3>for all of these different belief sets, things like serpent

961
01:02:14.039 --> 01:02:17.039
<v Speaker 3>worship and all of the art motifs. That's one. I mean,

962
01:02:17.079 --> 01:02:20.199
<v Speaker 3>even going back as far as quebecley Tepe, you start

963
01:02:20.199 --> 01:02:23.280
<v Speaker 3>to see similar motifs ring out. But one thing in

964
01:02:23.280 --> 01:02:25.840
<v Speaker 3>particular that stood out, and again having to do with

965
01:02:25.920 --> 01:02:29.920
<v Speaker 3>this maybe ultra terrestrial hypothesis, ultra meaning they're not from

966
01:02:30.039 --> 01:02:34.079
<v Speaker 3>space per se, they're here, they've been here at some

967
01:02:34.119 --> 01:02:37.920
<v Speaker 3>sort of a consciousness type energy that can be accessed,

968
01:02:38.920 --> 01:02:42.599
<v Speaker 3>and that the Onunaki were essentially magicians or shamans or

969
01:02:43.199 --> 01:02:47.360
<v Speaker 3>the magi of that time, and they were dealing with

970
01:02:47.519 --> 01:02:52.119
<v Speaker 3>these other forces and we could call them, I suppose, aliens.

971
01:02:52.119 --> 01:02:54.280
<v Speaker 3>We could call them demons, we could call them angels,

972
01:02:54.480 --> 01:02:57.480
<v Speaker 3>we don't know what to call them, really, because even

973
01:02:57.480 --> 01:03:00.000
<v Speaker 3>in our contemporary culture, we don't have a name for them.

974
01:03:00.239 --> 01:03:03.440
<v Speaker 3>Some people will call an alien a demon. Some people

975
01:03:03.519 --> 01:03:06.880
<v Speaker 3>are summoning the aliens because there are brothers and they're

976
01:03:06.920 --> 01:03:08.639
<v Speaker 3>trying to do good for us in light working. And

977
01:03:08.679 --> 01:03:10.480
<v Speaker 3>some maybe they're angels. But at the end of the

978
01:03:10.559 --> 01:03:14.480
<v Speaker 3>day too, even angel didn't mean that they couldn't be

979
01:03:14.760 --> 01:03:17.199
<v Speaker 3>not good because you have fallen angels or what have you.

980
01:03:17.239 --> 01:03:20.800
<v Speaker 3>So we're injecting a lot of like moral relativism and

981
01:03:21.159 --> 01:03:23.719
<v Speaker 3>you know, cross cultural analysis into this. So if you

982
01:03:23.840 --> 01:03:28.480
<v Speaker 3>break it down altogether and say we have the biological entities,

983
01:03:28.519 --> 01:03:32.280
<v Speaker 3>and then we have ambercarnate entities, So those are entities

984
01:03:32.280 --> 01:03:35.599
<v Speaker 3>that can be both incarnate or out of car you know,

985
01:03:35.719 --> 01:03:40.039
<v Speaker 3>their carnal state. It's something a little more vague, something

986
01:03:40.079 --> 01:03:43.239
<v Speaker 3>that's very similar to what people describe being in contact

987
01:03:43.280 --> 01:03:47.800
<v Speaker 3>with when they have a DMT experience or psilocybin. And

988
01:03:47.880 --> 01:03:52.480
<v Speaker 3>what's interesting is you have artifacts that are found all

989
01:03:52.519 --> 01:03:55.760
<v Speaker 3>over the place, but particularly some of them in the

990
01:03:56.480 --> 01:03:59.400
<v Speaker 3>in Berlin, I believe it is their museum has some

991
01:03:59.440 --> 01:04:01.840
<v Speaker 3>of these mushroom tablets, and these mush.

992
01:04:02.239 --> 01:04:04.760
<v Speaker 2>Talk about those because that blew me completely out of

993
01:04:04.760 --> 01:04:08.480
<v Speaker 2>the water. The tablets are shaped like mushrooms.

994
01:04:08.599 --> 01:04:12.440
<v Speaker 3>There you go, that's so wild. But yeah, because you know,

995
01:04:12.519 --> 01:04:15.320
<v Speaker 3>we talked about the tablets. They're only so big or

996
01:04:15.320 --> 01:04:17.000
<v Speaker 3>they're you know, and we think of them like maybe

997
01:04:17.039 --> 01:04:19.360
<v Speaker 3>Moses holding the tablets. I mean that's wrong because those

998
01:04:19.360 --> 01:04:23.119
<v Speaker 3>are huge, but their tablet shape right, well, not these

999
01:04:23.719 --> 01:04:27.719
<v Speaker 3>these so called mushroom tablets were literally shaped like mushrooms,

1000
01:04:28.280 --> 01:04:31.840
<v Speaker 3>and they had cuneiformritten all around them, and they were

1001
01:04:31.840 --> 01:04:35.840
<v Speaker 3>incantations and wishes and messages to the gods. And where

1002
01:04:35.880 --> 01:04:39.679
<v Speaker 3>they were planted though, was specifically in the walls of

1003
01:04:39.719 --> 01:04:42.920
<v Speaker 3>the temple as though to be a conduit to have

1004
01:04:42.960 --> 01:04:46.400
<v Speaker 3>that message to the gods, maybe similar to the the

1005
01:04:46.400 --> 01:04:50.320
<v Speaker 3>whaling wall and whatever that is going on there. You know,

1006
01:04:50.400 --> 01:04:52.719
<v Speaker 3>you have the little papers and the prayers, and that's

1007
01:04:52.760 --> 01:04:56.079
<v Speaker 3>what we're told that's happening with that. So you have

1008
01:04:56.199 --> 01:04:59.280
<v Speaker 3>these ideas resonate still in the old world that you're

1009
01:04:59.320 --> 01:05:03.039
<v Speaker 3>putting into the temple wall, your prayer that's going to

1010
01:05:03.079 --> 01:05:06.079
<v Speaker 3>be heard. So it's a ceremonial rite. It's something very

1011
01:05:06.400 --> 01:05:09.840
<v Speaker 3>symbolic and significant. But here you have, rather than a

1012
01:05:10.079 --> 01:05:13.199
<v Speaker 3>folded up piece of paper, you have a tablet, because

1013
01:05:13.199 --> 01:05:17.280
<v Speaker 3>that was their technology. But most importantly, they didn't just

1014
01:05:17.320 --> 01:05:20.599
<v Speaker 3>have a little rectangular tablet, which would have been quite

1015
01:05:20.599 --> 01:05:23.000
<v Speaker 3>easy to kind of put in little crevices. No, this

1016
01:05:23.199 --> 01:05:27.119
<v Speaker 3>was these were all mushroom shaped and we we and

1017
01:05:27.360 --> 01:05:29.840
<v Speaker 3>knowing the work of a Legro and the sacred mushroom

1018
01:05:29.840 --> 01:05:32.480
<v Speaker 3>in the Cross, he did some of that preliminary work

1019
01:05:32.519 --> 01:05:36.840
<v Speaker 3>looking into different mushrooms that would have been consumed, and

1020
01:05:36.880 --> 01:05:40.760
<v Speaker 3>some of the different words and texts and psalms and

1021
01:05:40.880 --> 01:05:45.679
<v Speaker 3>hymns in Sumerian that correspond with what he believed was

1022
01:05:45.719 --> 01:05:48.159
<v Speaker 3>a mushroom cult that was coming out of the Levant.

1023
01:05:48.599 --> 01:05:51.000
<v Speaker 3>He later then in that book went on to discuss

1024
01:05:51.079 --> 01:05:55.000
<v Speaker 3>throwing Christianity and never really fully developed or revisited the

1025
01:05:55.039 --> 01:05:57.079
<v Speaker 3>Sumerian angle. And so I tried to follow in his

1026
01:05:57.079 --> 01:05:59.519
<v Speaker 3>footsteps a little bit and look into those texts. And

1027
01:05:59.519 --> 01:06:02.639
<v Speaker 3>that's where I came across a lot of different words

1028
01:06:02.639 --> 01:06:05.639
<v Speaker 3>for a lot of these different substances, and then coming

1029
01:06:05.639 --> 01:06:10.000
<v Speaker 3>across the mushroom tablets themselves. It's you know, there is

1030
01:06:10.039 --> 01:06:12.519
<v Speaker 3>obviously an interpretive value here. You could say, well, maybe

1031
01:06:12.559 --> 01:06:14.559
<v Speaker 3>they weren't putting those in the walls to speak to

1032
01:06:14.599 --> 01:06:18.679
<v Speaker 3>the gods, that's fair. But based on what humans are

1033
01:06:18.679 --> 01:06:21.239
<v Speaker 3>known to do now, and based on what the tablets

1034
01:06:21.239 --> 01:06:24.199
<v Speaker 3>were actually saying and where they were placed, it looked

1035
01:06:24.239 --> 01:06:27.960
<v Speaker 3>like a common practice and they saw them clearly. In

1036
01:06:28.000 --> 01:06:31.719
<v Speaker 3>my view, the mushroom itself was the communication channel that

1037
01:06:31.760 --> 01:06:34.960
<v Speaker 3>would be able to bring them closer to God in

1038
01:06:35.000 --> 01:06:38.199
<v Speaker 3>that way. So you have that, and I have pictures

1039
01:06:38.239 --> 01:06:40.880
<v Speaker 3>of that in the book. There are other sort of

1040
01:06:40.960 --> 01:06:44.800
<v Speaker 3>peg type mushroom looking tablets as well, and those are

1041
01:06:44.800 --> 01:06:47.880
<v Speaker 3>not to be confused. They are sometimes confused with the

1042
01:06:47.960 --> 01:06:50.800
<v Speaker 3>mushroom tablets, but those are a little bit different. They're

1043
01:06:50.800 --> 01:06:53.239
<v Speaker 3>a little more conical, and they have different writings on

1044
01:06:53.280 --> 01:06:56.079
<v Speaker 3>them altogether, and they were used for practical purposes and

1045
01:06:56.199 --> 01:07:01.280
<v Speaker 3>actually building these, by contrast, are actually little prayers and

1046
01:07:01.320 --> 01:07:02.360
<v Speaker 3>they're on the mushrooms.

1047
01:07:03.559 --> 01:07:07.480
<v Speaker 2>We've had a neurobiologist, Andrew Gillimore on the program who's

1048
01:07:07.559 --> 01:07:12.639
<v Speaker 2>doing DMT experiments right now, and I mentioned to you

1049
01:07:12.960 --> 01:07:17.039
<v Speaker 2>at the very beginning of his work, and what he's

1050
01:07:17.079 --> 01:07:20.239
<v Speaker 2>trying to do is bring in new machines from a

1051
01:07:20.320 --> 01:07:24.400
<v Speaker 2>higher source aliens who are communicating. It's a very short

1052
01:07:24.400 --> 01:07:29.599
<v Speaker 2>timeframe that they're having these interactions, but the problems are

1053
01:07:29.679 --> 01:07:36.280
<v Speaker 2>that the recipient of the DMT is unable to type

1054
01:07:36.440 --> 01:07:41.159
<v Speaker 2>anything or write it down because he's altered physically, and

1055
01:07:41.239 --> 01:07:44.960
<v Speaker 2>so this is the great problem. But it's looking like

1056
01:07:45.400 --> 01:07:48.599
<v Speaker 2>you really found something. This is a historic way to

1057
01:07:48.760 --> 01:07:53.840
<v Speaker 2>evolve humanity through higher realms and bring through new data

1058
01:07:54.000 --> 01:07:59.800
<v Speaker 2>like writing like how to animal husbandry, agriculture, so forth

1059
01:07:59.800 --> 01:08:04.400
<v Speaker 2>and so on. And I'm just curious, did you find

1060
01:08:04.440 --> 01:08:08.159
<v Speaker 2>any reference or any artifacts that actually have bits and

1061
01:08:08.239 --> 01:08:12.079
<v Speaker 2>pieces of mushroom crushed into a lixor or something that

1062
01:08:12.199 --> 01:08:17.640
<v Speaker 2>was used ceremonially or what was I mean, what do

1063
01:08:17.720 --> 01:08:21.479
<v Speaker 2>you show as a reference point for this type of

1064
01:08:21.560 --> 01:08:24.800
<v Speaker 2>ceremony that would lead to connecting with the gods.

1065
01:08:26.159 --> 01:08:30.399
<v Speaker 3>So there's not really evidence in that way with regard

1066
01:08:30.439 --> 01:08:34.119
<v Speaker 3>to mushroom. There is with regard to the opium and

1067
01:08:34.159 --> 01:08:37.359
<v Speaker 3>the archaeobotany of how that's actually been cultivated. It was

1068
01:08:37.640 --> 01:08:41.359
<v Speaker 3>cultivated even you know, many years before the Sumerians, in

1069
01:08:41.359 --> 01:08:44.479
<v Speaker 3>in a domestic way, before the agricultural revolution. Even so,

1070
01:08:44.520 --> 01:08:48.520
<v Speaker 3>there was something very important about the opium poppy, and

1071
01:08:48.920 --> 01:08:52.199
<v Speaker 3>it was very much revered by the Sumerians. And that

1072
01:08:52.399 --> 01:08:55.399
<v Speaker 3>is something that when you look into their motifs and

1073
01:08:55.439 --> 01:08:59.800
<v Speaker 3>you see the Onanaki or apcollu, who are whomever holding

1074
01:08:59.840 --> 01:09:03.000
<v Speaker 3>the these branches that look like maybe flowers. They've been

1075
01:09:03.000 --> 01:09:07.880
<v Speaker 3>often referred to as date palms. Sometimes they're referred to

1076
01:09:08.000 --> 01:09:12.279
<v Speaker 3>as just little flower bunches. They've also been called pomegranates.

1077
01:09:12.720 --> 01:09:18.199
<v Speaker 3>But the actual professor who understood the era, who was

1078
01:09:18.800 --> 01:09:24.520
<v Speaker 3>already in that culture, and looked at these artifacts and

1079
01:09:24.600 --> 01:09:27.159
<v Speaker 3>many of them that were included in the queen's tomb,

1080
01:09:28.760 --> 01:09:31.119
<v Speaker 3>he said they were poppies. They were the poppy flower,

1081
01:09:31.159 --> 01:09:34.920
<v Speaker 3>and then they represented the poppy pod as well. And

1082
01:09:34.960 --> 01:09:38.560
<v Speaker 3>when you look at the motif, and I have this

1083
01:09:38.640 --> 01:09:40.279
<v Speaker 3>illustrated in the book too, when you look at the

1084
01:09:40.279 --> 01:09:43.640
<v Speaker 3>motif of the poppy in its pod form where you

1085
01:09:43.680 --> 01:09:47.359
<v Speaker 3>would be cultivating the latex that would make the opium

1086
01:09:47.840 --> 01:09:51.159
<v Speaker 3>on the very top of it is the kind of

1087
01:09:51.800 --> 01:09:56.359
<v Speaker 3>a rosette. And that rosette is very very similar and

1088
01:09:56.399 --> 01:09:59.680
<v Speaker 3>in some forms identical to the rosettes that are used

1089
01:09:59.680 --> 01:10:03.159
<v Speaker 3>throughout that era's art. And so it would be surprising

1090
01:10:03.239 --> 01:10:05.239
<v Speaker 3>to us, maybe because we've been told those are just

1091
01:10:05.279 --> 01:10:09.000
<v Speaker 3>little flowers, it's just because it's pretty whatever. But in

1092
01:10:09.039 --> 01:10:12.800
<v Speaker 3>their own culture they understood know these represented the poppy

1093
01:10:12.920 --> 01:10:15.479
<v Speaker 3>and the poppy flower and the pod et cetera, and

1094
01:10:15.520 --> 01:10:18.279
<v Speaker 3>so there would be evidence to suggest that they were

1095
01:10:18.399 --> 01:10:22.000
<v Speaker 3>using that in tandem with other substances. And so the

1096
01:10:22.079 --> 01:10:25.119
<v Speaker 3>key will be getting to go through all of these

1097
01:10:25.560 --> 01:10:29.960
<v Speaker 3>medical texts and trying to find out, you know, which which,

1098
01:10:30.119 --> 01:10:33.319
<v Speaker 3>what is the what's the recipe here? And and and

1099
01:10:33.319 --> 01:10:35.760
<v Speaker 3>and because in some cases, and this is what's interesting

1100
01:10:35.800 --> 01:10:39.279
<v Speaker 3>about those, in some cases they haven't been able to

1101
01:10:39.319 --> 01:10:43.159
<v Speaker 3>fully understand which ones were being referred to. There's been

1102
01:10:43.479 --> 01:10:45.920
<v Speaker 3>names of plants that they haven't identified, and so it's

1103
01:10:46.039 --> 01:10:49.359
<v Speaker 3>just incomplete. And so over time, though, I think we're

1104
01:10:49.399 --> 01:10:52.199
<v Speaker 3>going to be able to get the answers to that,

1105
01:10:52.319 --> 01:10:56.199
<v Speaker 3>especially with regard to some of the ones used in

1106
01:10:57.199 --> 01:10:58.279
<v Speaker 3>spiritual practices.

1107
01:10:59.800 --> 01:11:03.760
<v Speaker 2>It sounds very logical, but I'm wondering if you've written

1108
01:11:03.760 --> 01:11:06.920
<v Speaker 2>any white papers that have been peer reviewed to see

1109
01:11:06.960 --> 01:11:09.960
<v Speaker 2>what they're because I have a feeling to be like,

1110
01:11:10.279 --> 01:11:13.319
<v Speaker 2>what is she talking about? But because so many other

1111
01:11:13.359 --> 01:11:18.079
<v Speaker 2>cultures are using shamanistic technique to bring in the God's information,

1112
01:11:18.279 --> 01:11:20.680
<v Speaker 2>and of course it depends on how you interpret what

1113
01:11:20.720 --> 01:11:22.039
<v Speaker 2>they use the information for.

1114
01:11:22.199 --> 01:11:25.880
<v Speaker 3>But yeah, well, I mean I think that in generally speaking,

1115
01:11:25.960 --> 01:11:29.199
<v Speaker 3>in through anthropology it's it's understood that that what we

1116
01:11:29.279 --> 01:11:33.079
<v Speaker 3>call shamanism, it is a newer, relatively new term actually

1117
01:11:33.640 --> 01:11:36.680
<v Speaker 3>that we apply to things in retrospect to this like

1118
01:11:36.840 --> 01:11:42.239
<v Speaker 3>ancient or primitive as they say, spirituality, which is using

1119
01:11:42.319 --> 01:11:44.680
<v Speaker 3>it's defined in a lot of ways. There's a shaman,

1120
01:11:44.800 --> 01:11:47.319
<v Speaker 3>and they generally go into an altered state, and that

1121
01:11:47.439 --> 01:11:51.800
<v Speaker 3>altered state they go through something that seems dimensional spiritual,

1122
01:11:52.199 --> 01:11:55.640
<v Speaker 3>and they can take others through that state. But some

1123
01:11:55.680 --> 01:12:00.079
<v Speaker 3>of the key factors are that their substances used there

1124
01:11:59.880 --> 01:12:06.239
<v Speaker 3>are what's called orgiastic behavior. So sometimes literally orgies, sometimes figuratively,

1125
01:12:06.399 --> 01:12:09.039
<v Speaker 3>just like drum circles or dancing or things that get

1126
01:12:09.039 --> 01:12:13.520
<v Speaker 3>a group involved rhythmically and then in tune sort of vibrationally.

1127
01:12:13.920 --> 01:12:16.800
<v Speaker 3>So you have that, and then the drugs, and then

1128
01:12:16.840 --> 01:12:21.880
<v Speaker 3>you have and you know, in theogen's plant medicine, drugs

1129
01:12:21.920 --> 01:12:24.840
<v Speaker 3>however you feel like calling you. You have the substances.

1130
01:12:25.199 --> 01:12:29.079
<v Speaker 3>Then you have things like practices like meditation, holotropic breathing.

1131
01:12:29.560 --> 01:12:33.800
<v Speaker 3>You have various methods to get people to these altered states.

1132
01:12:34.520 --> 01:12:37.279
<v Speaker 3>And you can see even as far far back as

1133
01:12:37.319 --> 01:12:40.239
<v Speaker 3>we can in caves, they were trepending. They're drilling holes

1134
01:12:40.239 --> 01:12:43.600
<v Speaker 3>in people's heads, and even now there's research made. A

1135
01:12:43.680 --> 01:12:46.760
<v Speaker 3>Fielding kind of started this whole thing, I think, but

1136
01:12:47.239 --> 01:12:51.159
<v Speaker 3>she and others have looked into the idea of drilling

1137
01:12:51.199 --> 01:12:54.760
<v Speaker 3>a hole in your head to release intracranial pressure and

1138
01:12:54.800 --> 01:12:58.479
<v Speaker 3>how it could be related to psychedelics and all of that.

1139
01:12:58.600 --> 01:13:01.000
<v Speaker 3>So it sounds strange that they're be a relationship, but

1140
01:13:01.079 --> 01:13:04.279
<v Speaker 3>there is, and there's been a long standing relationship that way.

1141
01:13:04.319 --> 01:13:06.319
<v Speaker 3>So you have this group of methods that we can

1142
01:13:06.359 --> 01:13:10.439
<v Speaker 3>generically call shamanism, and we see those methods though, being

1143
01:13:10.920 --> 01:13:14.880
<v Speaker 3>all over all over shared cultures. And you know, people

1144
01:13:14.880 --> 01:13:17.680
<v Speaker 3>when they go into those altered states, they see similar things,

1145
01:13:18.039 --> 01:13:21.640
<v Speaker 3>they see similar entities, they see the rainbow serpent, they

1146
01:13:21.680 --> 01:13:25.720
<v Speaker 3>see little elves or trickster beings or what have you.

1147
01:13:26.000 --> 01:13:29.800
<v Speaker 3>And often the account has a very interesting theme, which

1148
01:13:29.880 --> 01:13:33.920
<v Speaker 3>is that they are given some form of knowledge, usually

1149
01:13:33.960 --> 01:13:37.960
<v Speaker 3>technological advancement. Yeah, so it's like, come see, now, when

1150
01:13:38.000 --> 01:13:42.840
<v Speaker 3>you compare those things to what the psychonauts now say

1151
01:13:42.880 --> 01:13:46.560
<v Speaker 3>that they see when they're under whether it's DMT or otherwise,

1152
01:13:46.800 --> 01:13:50.560
<v Speaker 3>they'll have similar explanations. And so of course we could

1153
01:13:50.600 --> 01:13:52.680
<v Speaker 3>say that, well, that's just an epiphenomena of the brain,

1154
01:13:53.239 --> 01:13:55.239
<v Speaker 3>and it's just, you know, going to be informed by

1155
01:13:55.239 --> 01:13:58.359
<v Speaker 3>that person's culture. Two things though, that stand out to

1156
01:13:58.399 --> 01:14:00.439
<v Speaker 3>me about that and why I started looking in this

1157
01:14:00.520 --> 01:14:04.279
<v Speaker 3>direction to begin with, because in full disclosure, I'm a teetotler.

1158
01:14:04.720 --> 01:14:07.479
<v Speaker 3>I drink tepid water and decalf like I.

1159
01:14:07.840 --> 01:14:10.560
<v Speaker 2>You're supposed to say, Cliff, I drop LSD every other

1160
01:14:10.680 --> 01:14:13.520
<v Speaker 2>day and I go on I watch the Journeys once

1161
01:14:13.560 --> 01:14:13.960
<v Speaker 2>a month.

1162
01:14:14.520 --> 01:14:16.880
<v Speaker 3>I don't. And and so some people may just say, well,

1163
01:14:17.000 --> 01:14:18.479
<v Speaker 3>you don't know you're talking about until you've done it.

1164
01:14:18.479 --> 01:14:21.000
<v Speaker 3>I've had that said. I always say I have too

1165
01:14:21.079 --> 01:14:22.279
<v Speaker 3>much anxiety for that.

1166
01:14:22.479 --> 01:14:22.920
<v Speaker 2>I'll do.

1167
01:14:24.800 --> 01:14:26.800
<v Speaker 3>I'll do d MT, but I need someone there who's

1168
01:14:26.840 --> 01:14:29.720
<v Speaker 3>a professional. I need like EKG going. I would need

1169
01:14:29.760 --> 01:14:32.399
<v Speaker 3>a whole like medical lab before I do it. But

1170
01:14:32.720 --> 01:14:37.119
<v Speaker 3>I'm open to it. I know, I'm totally open. But

1171
01:14:37.119 --> 01:14:41.399
<v Speaker 3>but because of that, I've been very interested in hearing

1172
01:14:41.399 --> 01:14:44.119
<v Speaker 3>the accounts of others. And the thing that stands out

1173
01:14:44.119 --> 01:14:48.880
<v Speaker 3>to me is Strausman's work. We're having multiple people go

1174
01:14:49.000 --> 01:14:52.399
<v Speaker 3>under somehow at the same time and emerge having seen

1175
01:14:52.439 --> 01:14:57.760
<v Speaker 3>the exact same thing, having a shared experience. That's interesting

1176
01:14:57.880 --> 01:15:00.760
<v Speaker 3>to me, and so it makes me I wonder about

1177
01:15:00.800 --> 01:15:03.880
<v Speaker 3>the locality of consciousness if it's perhaps non local and

1178
01:15:03.920 --> 01:15:06.640
<v Speaker 3>we're tapping into something different. And so of course that

1179
01:15:06.680 --> 01:15:09.039
<v Speaker 3>put my research in a whole woo woo area, but

1180
01:15:09.119 --> 01:15:11.840
<v Speaker 3>it was kind of necessary because I just was like,

1181
01:15:12.239 --> 01:15:14.760
<v Speaker 3>this is wild and then relating it to the Onanaki.

1182
01:15:14.760 --> 01:15:17.399
<v Speaker 3>And then of course I do a lot of work

1183
01:15:17.439 --> 01:15:20.960
<v Speaker 3>and understanding Western so terrorism and in cult and practices

1184
01:15:21.039 --> 01:15:23.600
<v Speaker 3>like that. And contrary to what people think, I'm not

1185
01:15:23.640 --> 01:15:25.720
<v Speaker 3>a witch. I don't practice. This is all just research.

1186
01:15:26.199 --> 01:15:28.000
<v Speaker 3>And some people will say, well, how is it that

1187
01:15:28.079 --> 01:15:31.159
<v Speaker 3>you've researched the occult and on a Naki. This doesn't

1188
01:15:31.199 --> 01:15:33.520
<v Speaker 3>seem to have a through line, but it does because

1189
01:15:33.520 --> 01:15:37.520
<v Speaker 3>it has to do with consciousness, people having these altered

1190
01:15:37.560 --> 01:15:40.680
<v Speaker 3>states and trying to whether it be have a religious

1191
01:15:40.720 --> 01:15:46.520
<v Speaker 3>type experience or sometimes weaponize those experiences or that knowledge

1192
01:15:46.560 --> 01:15:49.039
<v Speaker 3>against people in different ways. And so just kind of

1193
01:15:49.039 --> 01:15:51.680
<v Speaker 3>an understanding of it from a phenomenological point of view,

1194
01:15:52.039 --> 01:15:54.520
<v Speaker 3>and you start to see that you really can't just

1195
01:15:54.600 --> 01:15:58.680
<v Speaker 3>start doing a full scientific materialism on that when there

1196
01:15:58.680 --> 01:16:01.920
<v Speaker 3>are so many strange and unseen forces that you got

1197
01:16:01.920 --> 01:16:03.800
<v Speaker 3>to kind of consider all the things that we haven't

1198
01:16:03.800 --> 01:16:06.079
<v Speaker 3>been able to measure yet, but I think we're on

1199
01:16:06.119 --> 01:16:07.840
<v Speaker 3>our way, and I think there's a lot of pioneers

1200
01:16:08.199 --> 01:16:10.239
<v Speaker 3>in that realm that are doing some great work.

1201
01:16:11.000 --> 01:16:15.479
<v Speaker 2>If you're an Ananachi person, Heather's work is a must.

1202
01:16:15.680 --> 01:16:18.920
<v Speaker 2>You guys listening, you got to get this book Ananochy Revelation,

1203
01:16:19.560 --> 01:16:23.840
<v Speaker 2>Hidden History, Altered States, and the Mystery of Humanity. We

1204
01:16:23.880 --> 01:16:26.000
<v Speaker 2>didn't even get halfway through this thing, and there's so

1205
01:16:26.079 --> 01:16:28.840
<v Speaker 2>much good material. I would love to talk about the handbags,

1206
01:16:28.840 --> 01:16:30.960
<v Speaker 2>but you've got to have to read it. You're gonna

1207
01:16:30.960 --> 01:16:36.079
<v Speaker 2>have to read about the handbags. Heather. Talk about your

1208
01:16:36.760 --> 01:16:39.159
<v Speaker 2>podcast and how people can learn more about you.

1209
01:16:39.720 --> 01:16:40.880
<v Speaker 3>Well, first of all, I want to say thank you

1210
01:16:40.960 --> 01:16:42.399
<v Speaker 3>so much again for having me on and thank you

1211
01:16:42.399 --> 01:16:44.159
<v Speaker 3>for your kind words. It's really sweet.

1212
01:16:44.239 --> 01:16:46.640
<v Speaker 2>But you're a blast girl. You're a find to hang with,

1213
01:16:46.840 --> 01:16:48.000
<v Speaker 2>so I'm always gonna.

1214
01:16:47.760 --> 01:16:53.079
<v Speaker 3>Have Likewise Likewise, well, my podcast it's called The Midnight Academy,

1215
01:16:53.239 --> 01:16:55.880
<v Speaker 3>and I try to have some interesting guests on some

1216
01:16:55.920 --> 01:16:58.720
<v Speaker 3>of the people I've talked about, whether they be psychonauts

1217
01:16:58.840 --> 01:17:03.000
<v Speaker 3>or you know, fellow people from maybe Ancient Aliens, the

1218
01:17:03.000 --> 01:17:07.239
<v Speaker 3>television show, or anybody really that has some interesting thoughts.

1219
01:17:07.239 --> 01:17:11.399
<v Speaker 3>I had Marcelf fhoteon I've had tonight, I'm going to

1220
01:17:11.439 --> 01:17:15.199
<v Speaker 3>be talking to Bernie Taylor. That's gonna be fun. So

1221
01:17:15.279 --> 01:17:20.239
<v Speaker 3>I do everything from just uh you know, archaeology, strange.

1222
01:17:19.479 --> 01:17:22.359
<v Speaker 2>Youok, YouTube channel. Let people know that's YouTube. What's the

1223
01:17:22.439 --> 01:17:23.840
<v Speaker 2>name it is Midnight.

1224
01:17:23.520 --> 01:17:25.000
<v Speaker 3>Academy, the Midnight Academy.

1225
01:17:25.079 --> 01:17:27.359
<v Speaker 2>That's where you punch and you get to the page.

1226
01:17:27.399 --> 01:17:29.800
<v Speaker 3>Yep, So the Midnight Academy. It's video, but it's also

1227
01:17:29.880 --> 01:17:32.399
<v Speaker 3>a podcast. And then we also go live on Saturday nights.

1228
01:17:32.399 --> 01:17:34.319
<v Speaker 3>I've been doing that more frequently and that's a good time.

1229
01:17:34.800 --> 01:17:37.439
<v Speaker 3>So fun stuff there. But yeah, that's what I'm working

1230
01:17:37.479 --> 01:17:40.199
<v Speaker 3>on now. And uh yeah, I have the new book out.

1231
01:17:40.319 --> 01:17:42.920
<v Speaker 3>So but anywhere you can find me, the best place

1232
01:17:43.000 --> 01:17:46.479
<v Speaker 3>is the website. That's www dot doctor heatherland dot com.

1233
01:17:46.479 --> 01:17:49.760
<v Speaker 2>And I'll be oh yeah, right, yeah, shoot articles on

1234
01:17:49.800 --> 01:17:52.399
<v Speaker 2>there too. You you actually post your work there, which

1235
01:17:52.439 --> 01:17:52.680
<v Speaker 2>is good.

1236
01:17:52.760 --> 01:17:54.399
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, so that if you want to find me, just

1237
01:17:54.399 --> 01:17:56.560
<v Speaker 3>go there and you'll you'll see everything that I'm doing.

1238
01:17:56.600 --> 01:17:59.279
<v Speaker 3>And uh yeah, but very happy for the podcast. It's

1239
01:17:59.319 --> 01:18:01.800
<v Speaker 3>been a lot of fun because uh it's it's an

1240
01:18:01.800 --> 01:18:04.520
<v Speaker 3>extension of my research. It's a little it's a little

1241
01:18:04.560 --> 01:18:06.920
<v Speaker 3>selfish because I'm not just like trying to have people

1242
01:18:07.199 --> 01:18:09.520
<v Speaker 3>for the show. It's I look out for who do

1243
01:18:09.560 --> 01:18:11.359
<v Speaker 3>I need to talk to about this for my research?

1244
01:18:11.720 --> 01:18:13.680
<v Speaker 3>And then I find them and then I get them

1245
01:18:13.680 --> 01:18:15.760
<v Speaker 3>on the show, and then I'm just like, Okay, it's on.

1246
01:18:16.039 --> 01:18:16.279
<v Speaker 3>You know.

1247
01:18:16.560 --> 01:18:20.239
<v Speaker 2>So I've been learning by the show and I'm thinking, God,

1248
01:18:20.239 --> 01:18:21.920
<v Speaker 2>where are all the books that should be coming out

1249
01:18:21.960 --> 01:18:26.479
<v Speaker 2>of that? Like I had to back up scratch, Hey,

1250
01:18:26.479 --> 01:18:30.479
<v Speaker 2>well you should be wearing the big Ananaki necklace of

1251
01:18:31.680 --> 01:18:34.800
<v Speaker 2>esteem because you're really you're really picking it up. I

1252
01:18:34.840 --> 01:18:38.840
<v Speaker 2>don't see it coming from Mike Tellinger out in South Africa,

1253
01:18:39.239 --> 01:18:43.359
<v Speaker 2>although his material is good. This this new look. And again,

1254
01:18:43.399 --> 01:18:45.279
<v Speaker 2>those of you listening, you got to get this book

1255
01:18:45.319 --> 01:18:47.479
<v Speaker 2>because I just scratched the service. She's got so much

1256
01:18:47.520 --> 01:18:50.640
<v Speaker 2>cool stuff in her book. But this new look of

1257
01:18:50.920 --> 01:18:55.600
<v Speaker 2>bringing through information has been a theme for new research

1258
01:18:55.680 --> 01:19:02.119
<v Speaker 2>and recent research and is is And I know you're

1259
01:19:02.359 --> 01:19:06.560
<v Speaker 2>hit for time how to bring through complex technology? And

1260
01:19:06.680 --> 01:19:09.840
<v Speaker 2>I mentioned ahead of time, but when you're altered your

1261
01:19:09.920 --> 01:19:13.319
<v Speaker 2>your physicality is not necessarily functioning with your brain because

1262
01:19:13.319 --> 01:19:17.359
<v Speaker 2>your brain's experiencing this interaction. How the hell do you

1263
01:19:17.399 --> 01:19:20.760
<v Speaker 2>bring through machines? You know, as what did Terrence would

1264
01:19:20.760 --> 01:19:22.319
<v Speaker 2>cand of call him he had he would deal with

1265
01:19:22.359 --> 01:19:24.239
<v Speaker 2>the machine ls, you.

1266
01:19:24.239 --> 01:19:28.079
<v Speaker 3>Know, yeah, So that that's uh, that's it really, I

1267
01:19:28.119 --> 01:19:30.159
<v Speaker 3>mean that that's really the crux of it. I think

1268
01:19:30.199 --> 01:19:33.600
<v Speaker 3>that these self replicating machine ls, or the clockwork elves

1269
01:19:33.800 --> 01:19:36.399
<v Speaker 3>or all of these, this is a phenomenon that that

1270
01:19:36.479 --> 01:19:39.079
<v Speaker 3>I think the ancients knew very well, and I think

1271
01:19:39.119 --> 01:19:42.880
<v Speaker 3>that's what separated the so called regular people from the

1272
01:19:42.920 --> 01:19:45.920
<v Speaker 3>on rnaki, the ones that were able to harness this.

1273
01:19:46.560 --> 01:19:49.000
<v Speaker 3>And so if somebody says, well, how did they build this?

1274
01:19:49.000 --> 01:19:51.199
<v Speaker 3>How do they have this technology, it's like, well, even

1275
01:19:51.279 --> 01:19:56.680
<v Speaker 3>Nikola Tesla claimed that his inspiration came from other sources

1276
01:19:56.680 --> 01:19:59.359
<v Speaker 3>that way. And even the word to be inspired comes

1277
01:19:59.359 --> 01:20:03.079
<v Speaker 3>from in spirari in Latin, meaning when a god or

1278
01:20:03.079 --> 01:20:06.760
<v Speaker 3>an unseen supernatural force would just blow an idea into you.

1279
01:20:07.159 --> 01:20:10.159
<v Speaker 3>So it's an understanding that, you know, we don't know

1280
01:20:10.199 --> 01:20:13.119
<v Speaker 3>where these ideas come from, but sometimes in some ways

1281
01:20:13.479 --> 01:20:17.920
<v Speaker 3>people can get these wild ideas and then transform themselves

1282
01:20:18.000 --> 01:20:19.720
<v Speaker 3>into what we call civilization.

1283
01:20:20.960 --> 01:20:25.199
<v Speaker 2>Fantastic, Heather continues, success and thank you for joining me.

1284
01:20:25.239 --> 01:20:27.960
<v Speaker 2>I really really appreciate it anytime.

1285
01:20:28.079 --> 01:20:29.119
<v Speaker 3>Thanks so much for having me.

1286
01:20:33.359 --> 01:20:36.479
<v Speaker 2>I didn't mention that Heather has I think she had

1287
01:20:36.479 --> 01:20:38.880
<v Speaker 2>somebody narrate the book. I don't think it's her, but

1288
01:20:39.000 --> 01:20:43.000
<v Speaker 2>you can get it on audible if you don't have

1289
01:20:43.039 --> 01:20:45.880
<v Speaker 2>time to read, you know, and every week we have

1290
01:20:45.920 --> 01:20:50.000
<v Speaker 2>a new author, so you got to keep up with

1291
01:20:50.039 --> 01:20:52.840
<v Speaker 2>your reading. I'm not one to keep up with my reading,

1292
01:20:52.920 --> 01:20:57.920
<v Speaker 2>so I'm the worst at this. But Audible has narrated books.

1293
01:20:58.760 --> 01:21:02.119
<v Speaker 2>And what better time to cut to the chase when

1294
01:21:02.119 --> 01:21:07.199
<v Speaker 2>you're driving in commute traffic, you're taking a long weekend

1295
01:21:07.279 --> 01:21:10.920
<v Speaker 2>and driving into the country or visiting somebody, and you've

1296
01:21:10.920 --> 01:21:13.760
<v Speaker 2>got an hour to spare. Get on Audible and download

1297
01:21:13.760 --> 01:21:17.039
<v Speaker 2>these books. They are well worth your time. This is

1298
01:21:17.079 --> 01:21:22.199
<v Speaker 2>a very very good book to have if you're into

1299
01:21:22.199 --> 01:21:24.960
<v Speaker 2>the ancient alien side of things, you know how you

1300
01:21:24.960 --> 01:21:28.399
<v Speaker 2>feel about it. But this is, you know, a validation

1301
01:21:28.640 --> 01:21:36.119
<v Speaker 2>for et contact through psychedelics, you know, mushrooms. And we've

1302
01:21:36.119 --> 01:21:38.279
<v Speaker 2>had Graham Hancock on here, We've had We've had the

1303
01:21:39.119 --> 01:21:45.359
<v Speaker 2>A Listers, We've had Straussman, Andrew Gillimore, many many more

1304
01:21:45.399 --> 01:21:51.039
<v Speaker 2>people on the topic of psychedelics in communication with the

1305
01:21:51.119 --> 01:21:54.640
<v Speaker 2>different realities. I don't know if Andrew's going to pull

1306
01:21:54.640 --> 01:21:57.239
<v Speaker 2>it off though, because when you're on DMT and we've

1307
01:21:57.239 --> 01:22:02.079
<v Speaker 2>had Andrew on a couple of times, doctor Gillimore, when

1308
01:22:02.159 --> 01:22:09.760
<v Speaker 2>you're altered and you're you know, communicating with some form

1309
01:22:09.800 --> 01:22:14.439
<v Speaker 2>of consciousness and they give you some data, how do

1310
01:22:14.479 --> 01:22:17.000
<v Speaker 2>you bring it back? The only way to bring it

1311
01:22:17.039 --> 01:22:18.399
<v Speaker 2>back would be to be able to type it on

1312
01:22:18.840 --> 01:22:26.279
<v Speaker 2>a keyboard or you know, draw it out or something

1313
01:22:26.319 --> 01:22:30.319
<v Speaker 2>like that. It's it's it's impossible. This is a question

1314
01:22:30.359 --> 01:22:33.600
<v Speaker 2>for AI. There might be way to do it where

1315
01:22:33.640 --> 01:22:38.039
<v Speaker 2>you narrate what you're seeing. But still, if you have

1316
01:22:38.079 --> 01:22:41.119
<v Speaker 2>an equation, I guess you could do it equation. I

1317
01:22:41.159 --> 01:22:44.520
<v Speaker 2>don't know. It's we have we have, you know, to

1318
01:22:44.600 --> 01:22:48.199
<v Speaker 2>figure this out in the same manner that our ancestors

1319
01:22:48.199 --> 01:22:50.159
<v Speaker 2>figured it out, you know, because they were getting data

1320
01:22:50.920 --> 01:22:54.880
<v Speaker 2>from higher realms and bringing it through. We've had other

1321
01:22:54.920 --> 01:22:57.079
<v Speaker 2>people talk about it, in fact, in fact, Graham Hancock

1322
01:22:57.119 --> 01:23:01.439
<v Speaker 2>talks about it quite a bit in his world. So anyhow,

1323
01:23:01.479 --> 01:23:03.600
<v Speaker 2>Heather is always a pleasure to have on the program.

1324
01:23:05.399 --> 01:23:08.520
<v Speaker 2>And I want to mention this that I brought this

1325
01:23:08.600 --> 01:23:12.960
<v Speaker 2>up at the very beginning of the program. AI is here,

1326
01:23:13.760 --> 01:23:16.159
<v Speaker 2>It's here to stay. There's some people that used to

1327
01:23:16.159 --> 01:23:21.000
<v Speaker 2>be upset about it. I think if remember, a couple

1328
01:23:21.039 --> 01:23:23.319
<v Speaker 2>of people have said that they don't think it's going

1329
01:23:23.359 --> 01:23:25.600
<v Speaker 2>to have the same level of consciousness that we do.

1330
01:23:26.319 --> 01:23:29.000
<v Speaker 2>I think it's going to have a Marie machine consciousness,

1331
01:23:30.199 --> 01:23:33.920
<v Speaker 2>machine learning, machine consciousness. We'll see. I'm having a hell

1332
01:23:33.960 --> 01:23:36.920
<v Speaker 2>of a good time with it, That's all I got

1333
01:23:37.039 --> 01:23:40.800
<v Speaker 2>to say. I'm enjoying it a lot. Hey, if you're

1334
01:23:40.840 --> 01:23:45.520
<v Speaker 2>enjoying Earth Ancients, Destiny or the Special Edition series, please

1335
01:23:45.560 --> 01:23:48.479
<v Speaker 2>consider becoming a subscriber. For as little as five dollars

1336
01:23:48.479 --> 01:23:51.279
<v Speaker 2>a month, you can support the work we do here

1337
01:23:51.399 --> 01:23:55.359
<v Speaker 2>on these podcasts. To become a subscriber, go to patreon

1338
01:23:56.079 --> 01:24:00.880
<v Speaker 2>dot com, forward slash Earth Ancients and you can register.

1339
01:24:01.039 --> 01:24:02.800
<v Speaker 2>All they do is take it out of your ATM

1340
01:24:02.920 --> 01:24:04.560
<v Speaker 2>or your credit cards, so you don't have to even

1341
01:24:04.600 --> 01:24:06.960
<v Speaker 2>think about it. But it really goes a long ways

1342
01:24:07.000 --> 01:24:10.039
<v Speaker 2>to support the work we are doing and continues to

1343
01:24:10.119 --> 01:24:13.920
<v Speaker 2>keep the lights on. We also have some nice gifts.

1344
01:24:13.920 --> 01:24:17.720
<v Speaker 2>We have a whole library of ebooks that you can download,

1345
01:24:17.800 --> 01:24:21.359
<v Speaker 2>some from very good authors, and this is a way

1346
01:24:21.520 --> 01:24:24.560
<v Speaker 2>to collect books. I mean, I think we got fifty

1347
01:24:24.560 --> 01:24:29.479
<v Speaker 2>books from more and build your library. You know, it's

1348
01:24:29.520 --> 01:24:31.359
<v Speaker 2>a great way to build a library. Without having to

1349
01:24:31.399 --> 01:24:34.680
<v Speaker 2>waste paper. So to become a subscriber, go to Patreon

1350
01:24:34.720 --> 01:24:38.720
<v Speaker 2>that's p A t R e O N dot com,

1351
01:24:38.880 --> 01:24:43.920
<v Speaker 2>Forward slash Earth Ancients, and I want to remind you

1352
01:24:44.520 --> 01:24:48.479
<v Speaker 2>we have a YouTube channel that you can check out.

1353
01:24:48.520 --> 01:24:53.039
<v Speaker 2>A lot of these interviews have graphics, have photographs, have

1354
01:24:54.239 --> 01:24:59.600
<v Speaker 2>interesting material to display. So after you've heard it, you

1355
01:24:59.600 --> 01:25:01.279
<v Speaker 2>know you want to know more. Check it out. Go

1356
01:25:01.319 --> 01:25:06.039
<v Speaker 2>to Earth Ancients on youtubes YouTube channel and go to

1357
01:25:06.119 --> 01:25:09.439
<v Speaker 2>Earth Ancients and you'll see all the details. In the future,

1358
01:25:09.479 --> 01:25:15.279
<v Speaker 2>we're gonna have some unusual presentations that are nice to

1359
01:25:15.319 --> 01:25:17.800
<v Speaker 2>listen to, but there may be some material that you

1360
01:25:17.840 --> 01:25:21.920
<v Speaker 2>want to capture in a video presentation, so check that out.

1361
01:25:22.840 --> 01:25:24.840
<v Speaker 2>All right, that's it for the today's program. I want

1362
01:25:24.880 --> 01:25:28.079
<v Speaker 2>to thank my guest today, Heather Lin, coming to us

1363
01:25:28.079 --> 01:25:32.520
<v Speaker 2>from Ohio. As always, the team of Geltour, Mark Foster

1364
01:25:33.159 --> 01:25:38.279
<v Speaker 2>and Feya Pavar. You guys rock all right, take care

1365
01:25:38.319 --> 01:25:40.520
<v Speaker 2>of every well and we will talk to you next time.