Speaker 1: Welcome to ACK in Your Leadership.
Speaker 2: I'm Chris and I'm Lorenzo.
Speaker 1: And Lorenzo.
Speaker 3: In this episode, I want to go over a listener
Speaker 3: question that I think is really fascinating and it's we've
Speaker 3: we've touched on some of the elements that I think
Speaker 3: are related to this before, but not specifically this question,
Speaker 3: and I was kind of really intrigued by it when
Speaker 3: I when I read it, this person wrote in and
Speaker 3: said that they lead a team of people and there
Speaker 3: are several really high performing individuals on the team, and
Speaker 3: a lot of them are they have tested results, and
Speaker 3: they have you know, their expectations are high, and their
Speaker 3: performance and their outcomes are high year after year, and
Speaker 3: they really have no you know, kind of no nothing
Speaker 3: to improve on when it comes to their individual performance.
Speaker 3: And when they're asked to do something where there's a
Speaker 3: very clear desired outcome, but there isn't necessarily a clear
Speaker 3: strategy and how to get it done, oftentimes there's a
Speaker 3: lot of headbutting because they have differing opinions on how
Speaker 3: to get that thing done, and because because they all
Speaker 3: have kind of this track record of great results, each
Speaker 3: of them kind of thinks, well, of course, I should
Speaker 3: be the one to decide how to do this, because
Speaker 3: I'm the one with a great track record. And the
Speaker 3: person who wrote in said that, you know, it would
Speaker 3: be easy to just kind of like step in and
Speaker 3: just pick a side, but he doesn't want to do that.
Speaker 3: He wants them to be able to do this and
Speaker 3: not have to jump in and give the answer every time,
Speaker 3: because he doesn't think they'll learn anything by just you know,
Speaker 3: kind of doing doing that.
Speaker 1: And he doesn't want to pick sides. He thinks that
Speaker 1: that you're.
Speaker 3: You know, they're all they're all good people, and really
Speaker 3: oftentimes any of the outcomes or any of the strategies
Speaker 3: might work. So I think it's a great thing to
Speaker 3: pick apart and uh, and I want to give this
Speaker 3: person some advice.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's it's really good. You know.
Speaker 4: The The reality is, especially when you work with you know,
Speaker 4: well performing or high performing teams, is you're gonna get
Speaker 4: really passionate people with really you know, a good amount
Speaker 4: of opinions. And when you have that happen, especially when
Speaker 4: you have people that have some you know, uh, either
Speaker 4: some tenure or so experience around having success in the
Speaker 4: ways of their approaches, These are the times when it
Speaker 4: can get a little bit you know, squirrely, It can
Speaker 4: be a little bit around having to work through some
Speaker 4: of that because it's kind of like I some you know,
Speaker 4: a person A has had this example and done a
Speaker 4: good job and has had success in a certain approach,
Speaker 4: a certain way of doing things. Same thing with person B.
Speaker 4: And now we have a point where we have to
Speaker 4: find a way to create maybe alignment where maybe one
Speaker 4: approach in totality won't be the best strategy for everyone,
Speaker 4: not just maybe these two, but like a larger collective team.
Speaker 4: And when it comes to you kind of mentioned this
Speaker 4: like building skill with the with the individuals, like these
Speaker 4: are the moments, and these are the times when you
Speaker 4: really get a chance to kind of like work through
Speaker 4: you know, they're in a good way, work through their
Speaker 4: passion to get the work done, while also helping them
Speaker 4: to understand like the way in which you communicate, the
Speaker 4: way in which you collaborate, the way which we you know,
Speaker 4: we look at the thing that we're focused on or
Speaker 4: working on as as the point of having to find
Speaker 4: a solution and having to have like you know, the
Speaker 4: conflict is with the thing, not each other. Those are
Speaker 4: the moments that I think are really important as a
Speaker 4: leader to start to not just you know, see what's
Speaker 4: going on, but actually say out loud exactly what you said,
Speaker 4: which is like sometimes you have to say, like, hey,
Speaker 4: I think you're both amazing. I'm really proud of the
Speaker 4: work that you do. These are things that I recognize
Speaker 4: and respect in each of you individually, and this is
Speaker 4: a moment in time where I need to lean into
Speaker 4: your capability and your passion in a way that's going
Speaker 4: to help us move forward together and the team move
Speaker 4: forward together. And that means there needs to be elements
Speaker 4: here of negotiation and collaboration on how we get to
Speaker 4: the point of what the best strategy is. And like
Speaker 4: saying those things out loud to high performing people, I
Speaker 4: think is really helpful and setting the stage of what
Speaker 4: you expect, but also setting up the conversation that needs
Speaker 4: to happen so that there's not a maybe battling of
Speaker 4: egos or who's going to be right or wrong here,
Speaker 4: or who wins the strategy, but saying the the end
Speaker 4: result of this is going to be you know, both
Speaker 4: of your ideas refined into a way that works best
Speaker 4: for everyone.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's spot on.
Speaker 3: I think the first thing I want to say here
Speaker 3: is that this is a good problem to have when
Speaker 3: you think about what the alternative is, which is that
Speaker 3: you know, either a low performing team or people who
Speaker 3: don't have that passion or that drive to be able
Speaker 3: to get something done. Like the issue that this listener
Speaker 3: is dealing with is the result of I would assume
Speaker 3: good leadership in general, or at least, you know, inheriting
Speaker 3: a team of good people with you know that are
Speaker 3: high performers. But kind of the root of this is ego, right,
Speaker 3: you know you have if you have a track record
Speaker 3: of doing well, then there's there's it's okay to have
Speaker 3: a little bit of an ego about that. It's okay
Speaker 3: to kind of understand that you have a good track
Speaker 3: record and to recognize that in yourself and to think that,
Speaker 3: you know, that gives me the credibility to be able.
Speaker 1: To make decisions when it comes to these things.
Speaker 3: I think where this leader can do the most is to,
Speaker 3: you know, kind of ask themselves a couple of questions,
Speaker 3: because the answers to these questions will will kind of
Speaker 3: lead them into you know, what the right thing to
Speaker 3: do is here? Number One, does it matter, meaning if
Speaker 3: you if you listen to the strategies that are being
Speaker 3: proposed by each of these people, can you see them
Speaker 3: working out? Can you see either of them working out?
Speaker 3: And if the answer is yes, then it becomes absolutely
Speaker 3: a teachable moment to where you have.
Speaker 1: To put it on them to get something done.
Speaker 3: If you are inherently seeing something problematic with one of
Speaker 3: the two strategies, maybe you have access to information they
Speaker 3: don't have access to, then you know, you there's a
Speaker 3: way to convey that information without taking sides and then
Speaker 3: let them come to the conclusion on their own, you know,
Speaker 3: being able to say that both of them, you know,
Speaker 3: have you have you considered this and this and this
Speaker 3: and this and this, not from the standpoint of like
Speaker 3: picking sides, but just kind of factual information, And if
Speaker 3: they see the same things that you see, then that
Speaker 3: will probably lead them in the direction of one side
Speaker 3: versus the other. But if you're trying to groom a
Speaker 3: you know, kind of the next group of leaders, you know,
Speaker 3: people that could take over for your role or you know,
Speaker 3: people who want to move up into leadership roles, the
Speaker 3: skills that they need are going to be the skills
Speaker 3: of this collaboration and getting things done more so than
Speaker 3: the skill of figuring out the right strategy to get
Speaker 3: something done. It's it's actually far easier to come up
Speaker 3: with a right strategy than it is to get to
Speaker 3: gain consensus and collaboration over what the right strategy is.
Speaker 3: And so, you know, if these people are are you know,
Speaker 3: kind of expressing a desire to move up into leadership
Speaker 3: roles eventually, that really is something that you need to
Speaker 3: take into consideration when it comes to the right way forward.
Speaker 3: If there's a person who you don't see as being
Speaker 3: able to move into leadership role, so they're fantastic individual contributor,
Speaker 3: they do really good, you know, at their job, but
Speaker 3: you don't see them as being a potential for leadership
Speaker 3: and they haven't expressed it, then that's a different conversation
Speaker 3: to have because the skills that you're talking about aren't
Speaker 3: necessarily the ones that they need to you know, index
Speaker 3: on higher versus just the individual contributor thing. So these
Speaker 3: are all questions you need to kind of answer to
Speaker 3: yourself before you figure out the right way forward. But
Speaker 3: I'm an agreement that the right way isn't necessarily to
Speaker 3: just jump in and make a decision for them.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and I think that this is these are the
Speaker 4: moments where you do have to step in as a
Speaker 4: leader and not get tempted to like, hey, you guys
Speaker 4: are both great, figure it out. Let me know what
Speaker 4: comes out of this, like right, you know what I mean?
Speaker 4: Like like you, because you're also to your point, like
Speaker 4: a part of the dialogue, a part of the conversation
Speaker 4: is also an assessment of where are they when it
Speaker 4: comes to the effective way of communicating the ability to
Speaker 4: understand the bigger picture, the reality of Like Okay, you
Speaker 4: know that does make sense. There is a larger you know,
Speaker 4: there's a larger element at play here than just me
Speaker 4: wanting to implement the idea that I have, like like
Speaker 4: watching and listening for those things I think is really
Speaker 4: really important. And sometimes you know, I've been in a
Speaker 4: room with leaders where they just bail out, where they
Speaker 4: just say like, oh, you know what, okay, Like you know,
Speaker 4: let's just do it your way.
Speaker 2: That's fine.
Speaker 4: You know, you get those types of things as well. Yeah,
Speaker 4: and you have to think about that and say, well,
Speaker 4: hold on, like that's exactly like is that is that
Speaker 4: what we're doing?
Speaker 3: Right?
Speaker 2: You know what I mean?
Speaker 3: Like like, well, depends on where it's coming from, right, Like,
Speaker 3: is it let's just do it your way, because you know,
Speaker 3: I'm I'm gonna I think you're gonna lose and I'm
Speaker 3: gonna sit back and watch as you burn, or or
Speaker 3: is it is it an actual agreement that hey, I
Speaker 3: see both things here and let's.
Speaker 4: Try your way, you know, yeah, yeah, And sitting in
Speaker 4: the room and being a part of the conversation is
Speaker 4: really the only way to understand that and and to
Speaker 4: be able to recognize it as it's happening, right, because
Speaker 4: there's going to be some debate.
Speaker 2: There should be some healthy debate. Uh.
Speaker 4: And and sometimes you have people that just don't want
Speaker 4: the conflict and you know, to your point, like they'll
Speaker 4: they'll just back away from it or say, ah, you know,
Speaker 4: it's okay, it's not that big of a deal, or
Speaker 4: you know, like but but that's not what we're trying
Speaker 4: to solve for here. This is not about This is
Speaker 4: not about one of them getting solved quickly. This is
Speaker 4: about the conversation. This is about the dialogue. This is
Speaker 4: about the ability for us to collaborate and talk about
Speaker 4: these things. And this is sometimes about saying, hey, let's
Speaker 4: have a whole bunch of conversation and and you know,
Speaker 4: we'll put a timer on it in fifteen or thirty minutes.
Speaker 2: If we don't have a solution, we walk away. We
Speaker 2: come back later.
Speaker 4: Yeah, because because again, like the time aspect can also
Speaker 4: put a lot of pressure on but that it's not
Speaker 4: helpful in building the skill or building the confidence or
Speaker 4: getting people over that hurdle of that initial kind of
Speaker 4: like defending or battling you know, their idea or you know,
Speaker 4: having to work through their emotions, of their ego and
Speaker 4: things like that.
Speaker 2: That sometimes can take some time.
Speaker 4: But as a leader, yes, you absolutely need to step
Speaker 4: in and you need to absolutely say things like, hey,
Speaker 4: I don't I'm not trying to pick a side here,
Speaker 4: but we definitely have two different approaches to this, and
Speaker 4: we need to find some kind of middle ground. Whether
Speaker 4: it leans farther one way or the other doesn't really
Speaker 4: matter to me. But we've got to find a way
Speaker 4: to move together and commit to one another that this
Speaker 4: is what we're gonna go do.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 3: The two things I want to touch on here, One,
Speaker 3: I like what you said at the beginning around how
Speaker 3: you know the the right move here is to make
Speaker 3: sure that they don't view themselves as you know, members
Speaker 3: of opposing teams, but rather they're on the same team
Speaker 3: and they're trying to solve the same thing, and just
Speaker 3: kind of that mindset shift of thinking that you're you're
Speaker 3: not competing with this peer in order to like find
Speaker 3: the best solution, but in actuality, you both have the
Speaker 3: same outcome as you're both have the same outcome desired,
Speaker 3: which is to solve this problem, and sometimes working together
Speaker 3: can figure that out. The other thing is, you know,
Speaker 3: you mentioned you know somebody you know potentially saying you know,
Speaker 3: I'm out or or let's go your way, because they're.
Speaker 1: Trying to avoid conflict.
Speaker 3: And that's an interesting situation because I've had that happen before,
Speaker 3: when I've had a person who I knew they weren't
Speaker 3: as comfortable speaking up in a room, and so I would,
Speaker 3: you know, encourage them to do so, and then they would,
Speaker 3: you know, like they it was almost like they needed,
Speaker 3: they needed that kind of invitation to do so in
Speaker 3: order to speak up, and and when they didn't speak up,
Speaker 3: they always regretted it. Later on they would come to
Speaker 3: me and say, oh, I, you know, the I really
Speaker 3: wish I would have said this. I had a great idea,
Speaker 3: and they're usually right. They did have a great idea.
Speaker 3: They just didn't feel comfortable speaking up. And I started
Speaker 3: to realize that, you know, if they wanted to move
Speaker 3: into a leadership role, they wouldn't necessarily be able to
Speaker 3: rely on me or anybody else to kind of like
Speaker 3: you know, grease the wheels or light the fuse that
Speaker 3: you know, needed to be able to speak up at
Speaker 3: some point, they would need to summon it within themselves.
Speaker 1: And so I stopped doing that.
Speaker 3: I stopped kind of like you know, offering them time
Speaker 3: to do that and kind of letting them kind of
Speaker 3: feel the regret of not speaking up on their own
Speaker 3: and seeing it later on when it's like, oh, I
Speaker 3: should have said something. I had a great idea, and
Speaker 3: they needed that in order to be able to summon
Speaker 3: that within themselves. And you know, if you have psychological
Speaker 3: safety on a team, and and the reason why a
Speaker 3: person might not be speaking up is not rooted in
Speaker 3: anything real, It's rooted in just their own, you know, personal.
Speaker 1: Things they're getting over.
Speaker 3: Then sometimes it's okay to let a person bow out
Speaker 3: for the sake of avoiding conflict and feel the sting
Speaker 3: of it going a different way and thinking, you know what,
Speaker 3: my way was better, I should have done my way.
Speaker 3: It might take that in order for that person to
Speaker 3: be able to summon those things in themselves in the
Speaker 3: future and and speak up and kind of advocate for
Speaker 3: themselves or their ideas, you know, when it when it's
Speaker 3: the appropriate time to do that. That's a it's a
Speaker 3: really important life skill, not just in leadership roles, but
Speaker 3: just you know, self advocacy in general when it comes
Speaker 3: to your job is a really important thing, and some
Speaker 3: people struggle with that. So you know, if you're trying
Speaker 3: to develop that skill in one of your one of
Speaker 3: your people, you know, there's a there's a fine line
Speaker 3: between what you can do to encourage it and also
Speaker 3: at some point they they need to be able to
Speaker 3: summon it on their own.
Speaker 4: Too, absolutely, And with that it brings us to this
Speaker 4: episode is one minute Hack.
Speaker 2: But first a few words from our sponsors.
Speaker 3: All right, for this episode of one minute Hackers, or
Speaker 3: want you to do. If you're leading a team of
Speaker 3: high performers who are having difficulty figuring out a strategy
Speaker 3: that they can agree upon to get something done on
Speaker 3: an outcome that is agreed upon. You know, as a leader,
Speaker 3: your job is to do a couple of things. One,
Speaker 3: it's to make sure that you're very clear on what
Speaker 3: the desired outcomes are and the timeline for when that
Speaker 3: has to happen, so that you can work backward from
Speaker 3: that timeline to a point where you know the strategy
Speaker 3: has to be agreed upon by this day in order
Speaker 3: to make sure you have enough time to execute it
Speaker 3: and deliver on the results.
Speaker 1: So set the stage for that correctly.
Speaker 3: And then the next thing you can do is have
Speaker 3: the people who are having a difficult time figuring out
Speaker 3: the right strategy or agreeing upon a strategy present the
Speaker 3: positives of the other person's strategy. So instead of trying
Speaker 3: to fight for their own strategy, have them kind of
Speaker 3: hand the strategies to each other and fight for each
Speaker 3: others like they were trying to prove that the other
Speaker 3: was the correct way to do it. Oftentimes, going through
Speaker 3: that exercise can kind of break free the roadblock that
Speaker 3: is happening that's preventing somebody from, you know, kind of
Speaker 3: mentally getting through the positives of somebody else's strategy because
Speaker 3: they're so focused on you know, getting their own and
Speaker 3: presenting somebody else's and the pauses of it can make
Speaker 3: a person feel like they are kind of co owner
Speaker 3: of that strategy as opposed to it just you know,
Speaker 3: fighting for their way, and that can make people see
Speaker 3: the benefits of doing it the other way. If that
Speaker 3: doesn't come up with a solution that they can agree upon,
Speaker 3: at some point, as a leader, you might have to
Speaker 3: step in and make a decision. But it is important
Speaker 3: that they go through these exercises to try to do
Speaker 3: this on their own as opposed to you saying figure
Speaker 3: it out you're both high performers or making a decision
Speaker 3: for them and deciding the way to go forward. They
Speaker 3: won't learn anything besides how to just be a high
Speaker 3: performing individual contributor if you're constantly you know, giving them
Speaker 3: the right solution when it comes to working together.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and like, look, there's a lot of industries in
Speaker 4: a lot of places where continuing to be a high
Speaker 4: performing individual contributor is both necessary and very you know
Speaker 4: like like like good right like people like like love
Speaker 4: that level of responsibility. So I even think though that
Speaker 4: this type of skill, though, is still critically important even
Speaker 4: if you don't step into a leadership role, the ability
Speaker 4: to understand what's around you to like, if you're talking
Speaker 4: about like the ability to influence people in a positive way.
Speaker 4: It's also understanding how other people can see the work,
Speaker 4: can see the problem, how they approach it, how you
Speaker 4: need to tweak maybe your thoughts or questions or approach
Speaker 4: like understanding that like if if if there's multiple individual
Speaker 4: computer contributors or peers that you have, the success of
Speaker 4: the team sometimes is as if not more important than
Speaker 4: the individual contributor success that you might have. And those
Speaker 4: are important concepts that, no matter where you go from here,
Speaker 4: are really really important to learn.
Speaker 3: Yeah, completely having this kind of individual contributor mindset that
Speaker 3: doesn't take into account team goals, that's that's never a
Speaker 3: good thing.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 3: You need to make sure that that each person on
Speaker 3: the team is thinking not just in terms of their
Speaker 3: own success but the team success. But usually when they're
Speaker 3: thinking that way, when they're just thinking about themselves, there
Speaker 3: will be a strategy that wins out over the others
Speaker 3: when it comes to team success. If the issue you're
Speaker 3: having is that as a leader, you can see any
Speaker 3: of these strategies that are being presented working well. Typically
Speaker 3: I think that means that that the either the either
Speaker 3: the outcomes are aligned for individual success and team success,
Speaker 3: that means the same thing. Or it means that the
Speaker 3: people on your team do have a good idea of
Speaker 3: what team success looks like and they're not, you know,
Speaker 3: kind of putting themselves ahead of the team. And so
Speaker 3: that's a very different problem. If the strategies being presented
Speaker 3: seem to value individual success over team success, that's an
Speaker 3: entirely different conversation to have. And obviously one of those
Speaker 3: strategies isn't going to work, whereas the other one probably.
Speaker 4: Would absolutely And with that it brings us to the
Speaker 4: end of this episode. This is hacking leadership. I'm Lorenzo
Speaker 4: and I'm Chris, and we'll talk to you all next time.