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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to ACK in Your Leadership.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm Chris and I'm Lorenzo.

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<v Speaker 1>And Lorenzo.

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<v Speaker 3>In this episode, I want to go over a listener

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<v Speaker 3>question that I think is really fascinating and it's we've

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<v Speaker 3>we've touched on some of the elements that I think

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<v Speaker 3>are related to this before, but not specifically this question,

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<v Speaker 3>and I was kind of really intrigued by it when

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<v Speaker 3>I when I read it, this person wrote in and

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<v Speaker 3>said that they lead a team of people and there

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<v Speaker 3>are several really high performing individuals on the team, and

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<v Speaker 3>a lot of them are they have tested results, and

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<v Speaker 3>they have you know, their expectations are high, and their

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<v Speaker 3>performance and their outcomes are high year after year, and

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<v Speaker 3>they really have no you know, kind of no nothing

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<v Speaker 3>to improve on when it comes to their individual performance.

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<v Speaker 3>And when they're asked to do something where there's a

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<v Speaker 3>very clear desired outcome, but there isn't necessarily a clear

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<v Speaker 3>strategy and how to get it done, oftentimes there's a

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<v Speaker 3>lot of headbutting because they have differing opinions on how

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<v Speaker 3>to get that thing done, and because because they all

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<v Speaker 3>have kind of this track record of great results, each

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<v Speaker 3>of them kind of thinks, well, of course, I should

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<v Speaker 3>be the one to decide how to do this, because

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<v Speaker 3>I'm the one with a great track record. And the

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<v Speaker 3>person who wrote in said that, you know, it would

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<v Speaker 3>be easy to just kind of like step in and

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<v Speaker 3>just pick a side, but he doesn't want to do that.

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<v Speaker 3>He wants them to be able to do this and

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<v Speaker 3>not have to jump in and give the answer every time,

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<v Speaker 3>because he doesn't think they'll learn anything by just you know,

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<v Speaker 3>kind of doing doing that.

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<v Speaker 1>And he doesn't want to pick sides. He thinks that

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<v Speaker 1>that you're.

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<v Speaker 3>You know, they're all they're all good people, and really

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<v Speaker 3>oftentimes any of the outcomes or any of the strategies

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<v Speaker 3>might work. So I think it's a great thing to

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<v Speaker 3>pick apart and uh, and I want to give this

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<v Speaker 3>person some advice.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I think it's it's really good. You know.

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<v Speaker 4>The The reality is, especially when you work with you know,

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<v Speaker 4>well performing or high performing teams, is you're gonna get

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<v Speaker 4>really passionate people with really you know, a good amount

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<v Speaker 4>of opinions. And when you have that happen, especially when

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<v Speaker 4>you have people that have some you know, uh, either

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<v Speaker 4>some tenure or so experience around having success in the

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<v Speaker 4>ways of their approaches, These are the times when it

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<v Speaker 4>can get a little bit you know, squirrely, It can

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<v Speaker 4>be a little bit around having to work through some

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<v Speaker 4>of that because it's kind of like I some you know,

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<v Speaker 4>a person A has had this example and done a

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<v Speaker 4>good job and has had success in a certain approach,

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<v Speaker 4>a certain way of doing things. Same thing with person B.

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<v Speaker 4>And now we have a point where we have to

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<v Speaker 4>find a way to create maybe alignment where maybe one

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<v Speaker 4>approach in totality won't be the best strategy for everyone,

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<v Speaker 4>not just maybe these two, but like a larger collective team.

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<v Speaker 4>And when it comes to you kind of mentioned this

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<v Speaker 4>like building skill with the with the individuals, like these

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<v Speaker 4>are the moments, and these are the times when you

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<v Speaker 4>really get a chance to kind of like work through

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<v Speaker 4>you know, they're in a good way, work through their

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<v Speaker 4>passion to get the work done, while also helping them

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<v Speaker 4>to understand like the way in which you communicate, the

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<v Speaker 4>way in which you collaborate, the way which we you know,

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<v Speaker 4>we look at the thing that we're focused on or

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<v Speaker 4>working on as as the point of having to find

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<v Speaker 4>a solution and having to have like you know, the

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<v Speaker 4>conflict is with the thing, not each other. Those are

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<v Speaker 4>the moments that I think are really important as a

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<v Speaker 4>leader to start to not just you know, see what's

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<v Speaker 4>going on, but actually say out loud exactly what you said,

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<v Speaker 4>which is like sometimes you have to say, like, hey,

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<v Speaker 4>I think you're both amazing. I'm really proud of the

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<v Speaker 4>work that you do. These are things that I recognize

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<v Speaker 4>and respect in each of you individually, and this is

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<v Speaker 4>a moment in time where I need to lean into

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<v Speaker 4>your capability and your passion in a way that's going

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<v Speaker 4>to help us move forward together and the team move

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<v Speaker 4>forward together. And that means there needs to be elements

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<v Speaker 4>here of negotiation and collaboration on how we get to

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<v Speaker 4>the point of what the best strategy is. And like

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<v Speaker 4>saying those things out loud to high performing people, I

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<v Speaker 4>think is really helpful and setting the stage of what

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<v Speaker 4>you expect, but also setting up the conversation that needs

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<v Speaker 4>to happen so that there's not a maybe battling of

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<v Speaker 4>egos or who's going to be right or wrong here,

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<v Speaker 4>or who wins the strategy, but saying the the end

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<v Speaker 4>result of this is going to be you know, both

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<v Speaker 4>of your ideas refined into a way that works best

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<v Speaker 4>for everyone.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I think that's spot on.

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<v Speaker 3>I think the first thing I want to say here

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<v Speaker 3>is that this is a good problem to have when

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<v Speaker 3>you think about what the alternative is, which is that

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<v Speaker 3>you know, either a low performing team or people who

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<v Speaker 3>don't have that passion or that drive to be able

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<v Speaker 3>to get something done. Like the issue that this listener

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<v Speaker 3>is dealing with is the result of I would assume

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<v Speaker 3>good leadership in general, or at least, you know, inheriting

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<v Speaker 3>a team of good people with you know that are

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<v Speaker 3>high performers. But kind of the root of this is ego, right,

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<v Speaker 3>you know you have if you have a track record

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<v Speaker 3>of doing well, then there's there's it's okay to have

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<v Speaker 3>a little bit of an ego about that. It's okay

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<v Speaker 3>to kind of understand that you have a good track

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<v Speaker 3>record and to recognize that in yourself and to think that,

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<v Speaker 3>you know, that gives me the credibility to be able.

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<v Speaker 1>To make decisions when it comes to these things.

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<v Speaker 3>I think where this leader can do the most is to,

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<v Speaker 3>you know, kind of ask themselves a couple of questions,

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<v Speaker 3>because the answers to these questions will will kind of

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<v Speaker 3>lead them into you know, what the right thing to

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<v Speaker 3>do is here? Number One, does it matter, meaning if

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<v Speaker 3>you if you listen to the strategies that are being

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<v Speaker 3>proposed by each of these people, can you see them

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<v Speaker 3>working out? Can you see either of them working out?

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<v Speaker 3>And if the answer is yes, then it becomes absolutely

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<v Speaker 3>a teachable moment to where you have.

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<v Speaker 1>To put it on them to get something done.

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<v Speaker 3>If you are inherently seeing something problematic with one of

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<v Speaker 3>the two strategies, maybe you have access to information they

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<v Speaker 3>don't have access to, then you know, you there's a

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<v Speaker 3>way to convey that information without taking sides and then

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<v Speaker 3>let them come to the conclusion on their own, you know,

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<v Speaker 3>being able to say that both of them, you know,

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<v Speaker 3>have you have you considered this and this and this

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<v Speaker 3>and this and this, not from the standpoint of like

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<v Speaker 3>picking sides, but just kind of factual information, And if

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<v Speaker 3>they see the same things that you see, then that

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<v Speaker 3>will probably lead them in the direction of one side

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<v Speaker 3>versus the other. But if you're trying to groom a

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<v Speaker 3>you know, kind of the next group of leaders, you know,

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<v Speaker 3>people that could take over for your role or you know,

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<v Speaker 3>people who want to move up into leadership roles, the

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<v Speaker 3>skills that they need are going to be the skills

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<v Speaker 3>of this collaboration and getting things done more so than

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<v Speaker 3>the skill of figuring out the right strategy to get

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<v Speaker 3>something done. It's it's actually far easier to come up

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<v Speaker 3>with a right strategy than it is to get to

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<v Speaker 3>gain consensus and collaboration over what the right strategy is.

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<v Speaker 3>And so, you know, if these people are are you know,

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<v Speaker 3>kind of expressing a desire to move up into leadership

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<v Speaker 3>roles eventually, that really is something that you need to

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<v Speaker 3>take into consideration when it comes to the right way forward.

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<v Speaker 3>If there's a person who you don't see as being

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<v Speaker 3>able to move into leadership role, so they're fantastic individual contributor,

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<v Speaker 3>they do really good, you know, at their job, but

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<v Speaker 3>you don't see them as being a potential for leadership

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<v Speaker 3>and they haven't expressed it, then that's a different conversation

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<v Speaker 3>to have because the skills that you're talking about aren't

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<v Speaker 3>necessarily the ones that they need to you know, index

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<v Speaker 3>on higher versus just the individual contributor thing. So these

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<v Speaker 3>are all questions you need to kind of answer to

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<v Speaker 3>yourself before you figure out the right way forward. But

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<v Speaker 3>I'm an agreement that the right way isn't necessarily to

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<v Speaker 3>just jump in and make a decision for them.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, and I think that this is these are the

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<v Speaker 4>moments where you do have to step in as a

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<v Speaker 4>leader and not get tempted to like, hey, you guys

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<v Speaker 4>are both great, figure it out. Let me know what

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<v Speaker 4>comes out of this, like right, you know what I mean?

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<v Speaker 4>Like like you, because you're also to your point, like

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<v Speaker 4>a part of the dialogue, a part of the conversation

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<v Speaker 4>is also an assessment of where are they when it

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<v Speaker 4>comes to the effective way of communicating the ability to

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<v Speaker 4>understand the bigger picture, the reality of Like Okay, you

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<v Speaker 4>know that does make sense. There is a larger you know,

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<v Speaker 4>there's a larger element at play here than just me

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<v Speaker 4>wanting to implement the idea that I have, like like

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<v Speaker 4>watching and listening for those things I think is really

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<v Speaker 4>really important. And sometimes you know, I've been in a

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<v Speaker 4>room with leaders where they just bail out, where they

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<v Speaker 4>just say like, oh, you know what, okay, Like you know,

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<v Speaker 4>let's just do it your way.

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<v Speaker 2>That's fine.

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<v Speaker 4>You know, you get those types of things as well. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 4>and you have to think about that and say, well,

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<v Speaker 4>hold on, like that's exactly like is that is that

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<v Speaker 4>what we're doing?

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<v Speaker 3>Right?

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<v Speaker 2>You know what I mean?

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<v Speaker 3>Like like, well, depends on where it's coming from, right, Like,

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<v Speaker 3>is it let's just do it your way, because you know,

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<v Speaker 3>I'm I'm gonna I think you're gonna lose and I'm

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<v Speaker 3>gonna sit back and watch as you burn, or or

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<v Speaker 3>is it is it an actual agreement that hey, I

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<v Speaker 3>see both things here and let's.

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<v Speaker 4>Try your way, you know, yeah, yeah, And sitting in

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<v Speaker 4>the room and being a part of the conversation is

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<v Speaker 4>really the only way to understand that and and to

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<v Speaker 4>be able to recognize it as it's happening, right, because

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<v Speaker 4>there's going to be some debate.

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<v Speaker 2>There should be some healthy debate. Uh.

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<v Speaker 4>And and sometimes you have people that just don't want

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<v Speaker 4>the conflict and you know, to your point, like they'll

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<v Speaker 4>they'll just back away from it or say, ah, you know,

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<v Speaker 4>it's okay, it's not that big of a deal, or

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<v Speaker 4>you know, like but but that's not what we're trying

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<v Speaker 4>to solve for here. This is not about This is

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<v Speaker 4>not about one of them getting solved quickly. This is

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<v Speaker 4>about the conversation. This is about the dialogue. This is

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<v Speaker 4>about the ability for us to collaborate and talk about

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<v Speaker 4>these things. And this is sometimes about saying, hey, let's

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<v Speaker 4>have a whole bunch of conversation and and you know,

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<v Speaker 4>we'll put a timer on it in fifteen or thirty minutes.

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<v Speaker 2>If we don't have a solution, we walk away. We

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<v Speaker 2>come back later.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, because because again, like the time aspect can also

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<v Speaker 4>put a lot of pressure on but that it's not

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<v Speaker 4>helpful in building the skill or building the confidence or

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<v Speaker 4>getting people over that hurdle of that initial kind of

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<v Speaker 4>like defending or battling you know, their idea or you know,

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<v Speaker 4>having to work through their emotions, of their ego and

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<v Speaker 4>things like that.

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<v Speaker 2>That sometimes can take some time.

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<v Speaker 4>But as a leader, yes, you absolutely need to step

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<v Speaker 4>in and you need to absolutely say things like, hey,

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<v Speaker 4>I don't I'm not trying to pick a side here,

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<v Speaker 4>but we definitely have two different approaches to this, and

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<v Speaker 4>we need to find some kind of middle ground. Whether

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<v Speaker 4>it leans farther one way or the other doesn't really

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<v Speaker 4>matter to me. But we've got to find a way

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<v Speaker 4>to move together and commit to one another that this

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<v Speaker 4>is what we're gonna go do.

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<v Speaker 1>Right.

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<v Speaker 3>The two things I want to touch on here, One,

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<v Speaker 3>I like what you said at the beginning around how

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<v Speaker 3>you know the the right move here is to make

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<v Speaker 3>sure that they don't view themselves as you know, members

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<v Speaker 3>of opposing teams, but rather they're on the same team

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<v Speaker 3>and they're trying to solve the same thing, and just

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<v Speaker 3>kind of that mindset shift of thinking that you're you're

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<v Speaker 3>not competing with this peer in order to like find

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<v Speaker 3>the best solution, but in actuality, you both have the

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<v Speaker 3>same outcome as you're both have the same outcome desired,

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<v Speaker 3>which is to solve this problem, and sometimes working together

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<v Speaker 3>can figure that out. The other thing is, you know,

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<v Speaker 3>you mentioned you know somebody you know potentially saying you know,

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<v Speaker 3>I'm out or or let's go your way, because they're.

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<v Speaker 1>Trying to avoid conflict.

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<v Speaker 3>And that's an interesting situation because I've had that happen before,

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<v Speaker 3>when I've had a person who I knew they weren't

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<v Speaker 3>as comfortable speaking up in a room, and so I would,

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<v Speaker 3>you know, encourage them to do so, and then they would,

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<v Speaker 3>you know, like they it was almost like they needed,

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<v Speaker 3>they needed that kind of invitation to do so in

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<v Speaker 3>order to speak up, and and when they didn't speak up,

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<v Speaker 3>they always regretted it. Later on they would come to

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<v Speaker 3>me and say, oh, I, you know, the I really

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<v Speaker 3>wish I would have said this. I had a great idea,

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<v Speaker 3>and they're usually right. They did have a great idea.

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<v Speaker 3>They just didn't feel comfortable speaking up. And I started

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<v Speaker 3>to realize that, you know, if they wanted to move

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<v Speaker 3>into a leadership role, they wouldn't necessarily be able to

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<v Speaker 3>rely on me or anybody else to kind of like

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<v Speaker 3>you know, grease the wheels or light the fuse that

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<v Speaker 3>you know, needed to be able to speak up at

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<v Speaker 3>some point, they would need to summon it within themselves.

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<v Speaker 1>And so I stopped doing that.

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<v Speaker 3>I stopped kind of like you know, offering them time

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<v Speaker 3>to do that and kind of letting them kind of

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<v Speaker 3>feel the regret of not speaking up on their own

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<v Speaker 3>and seeing it later on when it's like, oh, I

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<v Speaker 3>should have said something. I had a great idea, and

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<v Speaker 3>they needed that in order to be able to summon

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<v Speaker 3>that within themselves. And you know, if you have psychological

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<v Speaker 3>safety on a team, and and the reason why a

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<v Speaker 3>person might not be speaking up is not rooted in

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<v Speaker 3>anything real, It's rooted in just their own, you know, personal.

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<v Speaker 1>Things they're getting over.

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<v Speaker 3>Then sometimes it's okay to let a person bow out

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<v Speaker 3>for the sake of avoiding conflict and feel the sting

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<v Speaker 3>of it going a different way and thinking, you know what,

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<v Speaker 3>my way was better, I should have done my way.

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<v Speaker 3>It might take that in order for that person to

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<v Speaker 3>be able to summon those things in themselves in the

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<v Speaker 3>future and and speak up and kind of advocate for

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<v Speaker 3>themselves or their ideas, you know, when it when it's

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<v Speaker 3>the appropriate time to do that. That's a it's a

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<v Speaker 3>really important life skill, not just in leadership roles, but

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<v Speaker 3>just you know, self advocacy in general when it comes

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<v Speaker 3>to your job is a really important thing, and some

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<v Speaker 3>people struggle with that. So you know, if you're trying

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<v Speaker 3>to develop that skill in one of your one of

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<v Speaker 3>your people, you know, there's a there's a fine line

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<v Speaker 3>between what you can do to encourage it and also

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<v Speaker 3>at some point they they need to be able to

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<v Speaker 3>summon it on their own.

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<v Speaker 4>Too, absolutely, And with that it brings us to this

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<v Speaker 4>episode is one minute Hack.

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<v Speaker 2>But first a few words from our sponsors.

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<v Speaker 3>All right, for this episode of one minute Hackers, or

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<v Speaker 3>want you to do. If you're leading a team of

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<v Speaker 3>high performers who are having difficulty figuring out a strategy

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<v Speaker 3>that they can agree upon to get something done on

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<v Speaker 3>an outcome that is agreed upon. You know, as a leader,

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<v Speaker 3>your job is to do a couple of things. One,

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<v Speaker 3>it's to make sure that you're very clear on what

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<v Speaker 3>the desired outcomes are and the timeline for when that

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<v Speaker 3>has to happen, so that you can work backward from

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<v Speaker 3>that timeline to a point where you know the strategy

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<v Speaker 3>has to be agreed upon by this day in order

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<v Speaker 3>to make sure you have enough time to execute it

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<v Speaker 3>and deliver on the results.

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<v Speaker 1>So set the stage for that correctly.

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<v Speaker 3>And then the next thing you can do is have

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<v Speaker 3>the people who are having a difficult time figuring out

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<v Speaker 3>the right strategy or agreeing upon a strategy present the

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<v Speaker 3>positives of the other person's strategy. So instead of trying

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<v Speaker 3>to fight for their own strategy, have them kind of

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<v Speaker 3>hand the strategies to each other and fight for each

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<v Speaker 3>others like they were trying to prove that the other

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<v Speaker 3>was the correct way to do it. Oftentimes, going through

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<v Speaker 3>that exercise can kind of break free the roadblock that

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<v Speaker 3>is happening that's preventing somebody from, you know, kind of

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<v Speaker 3>mentally getting through the positives of somebody else's strategy because

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<v Speaker 3>they're so focused on you know, getting their own and

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<v Speaker 3>presenting somebody else's and the pauses of it can make

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<v Speaker 3>a person feel like they are kind of co owner

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<v Speaker 3>of that strategy as opposed to it just you know,

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<v Speaker 3>fighting for their way, and that can make people see

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<v Speaker 3>the benefits of doing it the other way. If that

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<v Speaker 3>doesn't come up with a solution that they can agree upon,

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<v Speaker 3>at some point, as a leader, you might have to

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<v Speaker 3>step in and make a decision. But it is important

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<v Speaker 3>that they go through these exercises to try to do

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<v Speaker 3>this on their own as opposed to you saying figure

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<v Speaker 3>it out you're both high performers or making a decision

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<v Speaker 3>for them and deciding the way to go forward. They

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<v Speaker 3>won't learn anything besides how to just be a high

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<v Speaker 3>performing individual contributor if you're constantly you know, giving them

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<v Speaker 3>the right solution when it comes to working together.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, and like, look, there's a lot of industries in

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<v Speaker 4>a lot of places where continuing to be a high

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<v Speaker 4>performing individual contributor is both necessary and very you know

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<v Speaker 4>like like like good right like people like like love

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<v Speaker 4>that level of responsibility. So I even think though that

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<v Speaker 4>this type of skill, though, is still critically important even

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<v Speaker 4>if you don't step into a leadership role, the ability

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<v Speaker 4>to understand what's around you to like, if you're talking

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<v Speaker 4>about like the ability to influence people in a positive way.

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<v Speaker 4>It's also understanding how other people can see the work,

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<v Speaker 4>can see the problem, how they approach it, how you

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<v Speaker 4>need to tweak maybe your thoughts or questions or approach

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<v Speaker 4>like understanding that like if if if there's multiple individual

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<v Speaker 4>computer contributors or peers that you have, the success of

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<v Speaker 4>the team sometimes is as if not more important than

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<v Speaker 4>the individual contributor success that you might have. And those

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<v Speaker 4>are important concepts that, no matter where you go from here,

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<v Speaker 4>are really really important to learn.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, completely having this kind of individual contributor mindset that

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<v Speaker 3>doesn't take into account team goals, that's that's never a

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<v Speaker 3>good thing.

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<v Speaker 2>You know.

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<v Speaker 3>You need to make sure that that each person on

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<v Speaker 3>the team is thinking not just in terms of their

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<v Speaker 3>own success but the team success. But usually when they're

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<v Speaker 3>thinking that way, when they're just thinking about themselves, there

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<v Speaker 3>will be a strategy that wins out over the others

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<v Speaker 3>when it comes to team success. If the issue you're

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<v Speaker 3>having is that as a leader, you can see any

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<v Speaker 3>of these strategies that are being presented working well. Typically

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<v Speaker 3>I think that means that that the either the either

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<v Speaker 3>the outcomes are aligned for individual success and team success,

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<v Speaker 3>that means the same thing. Or it means that the

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<v Speaker 3>people on your team do have a good idea of

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<v Speaker 3>what team success looks like and they're not, you know,

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<v Speaker 3>kind of putting themselves ahead of the team. And so

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<v Speaker 3>that's a very different problem. If the strategies being presented

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<v Speaker 3>seem to value individual success over team success, that's an

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<v Speaker 3>entirely different conversation to have. And obviously one of those

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<v Speaker 3>strategies isn't going to work, whereas the other one probably.

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<v Speaker 4>Would absolutely And with that it brings us to the

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<v Speaker 4>end of this episode. This is hacking leadership. I'm Lorenzo

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<v Speaker 4>and I'm Chris, and we'll talk to you all next time.