Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to the show. I'm Martin Well's your host.
And as I mentioned in my last Tuesday show, the
survey came in. The listeners have spoken, So I am.
I started two shows a week and I'm going to
continue as we go along. However, there may be some
changes in the Thursday evening show now and then I
may put up some type of show that I have
an interest in other than the topic of UFOs, And so,
you know, I mean sometimes I will say this, sometimes
I get very busy and I'm still, you know, a
working person, not a regular job. I've an appraiser of
the antiques and fine art, so I still can get
really busy, so busy that I won't be able to
do two shows a week. So just bear in mind
every once in a while I have to skip a
Thursday night, is what it boils down to. But I
love doing the show and our guest tonight is And
by the way, as you can see in the background here,
it's daytime. This is a daytime recording. As I always mentioned,
I never edit these, I just let them go. And
so it's going to be exactly like a live show,
and I should be in the chat room this evening
when you are here at this show and say so
thank you all for being here when this show comes
out Thursday night, eight eight pm. And so a couple
of things. As I said, the survey, thank you for
taking that, as well as our blog this week. Check
it out over at podcastufo dot com. It's the Rise
and Fall of interest in the British Crop Circle Mystery
by Charles Lear. Great blogger writes blogs every week. We
have hundreds of them on podcastufo dot com. As far
as the audio goes, the audio blogs are not going
to be on you Tube any longer. They're just going
to be in the audio podcast feed. You can catch
our podcasts at on about any media that's out there pod.
I mean, there's just countless ones. We're on every one
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if you want to be ad free on the audio,
all you have to do is join Patreon. That link
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podcastufo dot com. For two dollars or more a month,
you can get an ad free experience with the audio
blogs in there as well. That's enough talking for me tonight,
so I'm going to bring in my guests. Welcome Danielle.
Speaker 2: Yes, thanks for having me marsin. It's a great pleasure
to be on the show.
Speaker 1: Well, thank you. And I know that it's better than
being in the middle of the night for you, because
it was going to be I forget one o'clock in
the morning.
Speaker 2: Or something, yeah, something like that one I am two am, yeah,
because I live in the UK, so yeah, it would
have been early as the morning for a live.
Speaker 1: Show, right right, And you know what we were talking
off there and up I had never somehow I had
never come across Nigel Kerner before, but I thought he
was fascinating. I've looked at some old interviewers unfortunately passed
away in twenty twenty two, but you were involved at
some point. Can you tell us a little how that helpened?
That happened?
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, So I knew him for a very long time,
met him first of all in the nineteen eighties. And
the reason I got to know him, it's quite an
interesting story. A friend of mine said, you've got to
meet this guy. And the reason why my friend said
this was because I was having a kind of existential
crisis at that time and I couldn't understand I realized
I accepted there had to be something beyond the physical
and this physical universe, this material existence wasn't all there was.
But if there was a God or something that's existed
beyond this limited physical state, how could that God put
us here to suffer? Why wouldn't he just he or
it or whatever you want to call it, just have
a state of leave us in a state of per
perfection as God himself or the good state of God
must be. Why get us to experience imperfection and all
the suffering and all the terrible things that happened to people.
I was born Jewish, and the Jewish faith made very
little sense to me based on the Old Testament and
the kind of God that's depicted in the Old Testament,
who's full of revenge vanity, killing people left, right and center.
To this day, I cannot accept how I kind of
understand how people can accept that kind of God could
possibly be something beyond the physical. To me, it seems
like something man made. But anyway, I knew there had
to be something, and I couldn't find an answer in
any of the religious texts that I'd looked at. So
my friends said, Okay, you've got to meet this guy, Nigel.
So I went to meet him and I told him
my problem and he said, Okay, maybe I can answer
your question. And he said, and this is actually the
central thesis of all of his three books, because his books,
although they seem the title, is related to the UFO
alien phenomenon, he's one of the few authors who tries
to explain how that phenomenon came to be in existential terms,
and how it relates to us, and how we came
to be, where we come from, and how that whole
pat of events and logic. That's a long story. Short
what he said to me is that if there is
a God, and he called it Godness or the god verse,
because he didn't want to identify it as something like
a person or human being, or to give it any
kind of human trait that would identify it with something
that we might create, because that's been done all through
the ages, and all kinds of terrible things have been
done in the name of religion. So he called it
a state of perfection, god Verse or Godness. In that
state of perfection, there would be perfect freedom, there have
to be no limit, right. There would have to also
be complete knowledge, complete awareness, of all things. Otherwise it's
not a perfect state. So complete awareness of everything and
perfect freedom, no limit whatsoever, this would have to be
a state of limitlessness, perfect union and harmony, no separation.
Our universe is characterized by limit, separation and parts we
exist separately from each other. In this state, there is
no separation. So his logic was, and it really struck
a chord with me, and to this day it seems
to me to be the best way to explain it.
His logic was, if there exists the perfect freedom to
do absolutely anything, that has to include the freedom to
no longer be perfectly free, Otherwise it's not perfect freedom.
And if that state includes all awareness of all things,
that has to include the awareness of limit and separation
as well. Otherwise it doesn't include all things. So our
existence in this limited, physical, restricted state is based on
the implicit potential in that state of limitless perfection to
be perfectly free and to chew use to no longer
be perfectly free. It's an implicit situation. God didn't create us.
God didn't make us. DoD didn't put us here to
suffer and watch the fun and see how we coped.
It just isn't it's the nature of existence that we're here.
It's a completely implicit thing, and it's very complex to
describe the whole. You may have because you have the books,
maybe you've seen something. I'm sure you wouldn't have had
time to read them. Of Nigel's description of what he
calls dimensionality. So how our three dimensional universe came to
be from this dimension less zero dimensional state. It's whole
chapters devoted to it. But he describes how all of
that came to be in the kind of mathematical logic.
And yes, so basically he answered my question. We still
have free will as human beings, but we now have,
through our own choices, limited ourselves to have a restricted view,
so we can no longer see the glory we once
came from. So that's in a nutshell, leaving out loads
of stuff, but in a nutshell what he told me.
And after that we got talking about all kinds of things.
He was involved in writing his first book, which wasn't
actually Some of the Grays that was published. It was
another book called Margins Forever, which later it was never published,
but it got incorporated into the next three books. I
was so taken and inspired by his ideas that I
helped him research them and also helped him get publishers
for his books, and we just had a working relationship
which continued until he died in twenty twenty two.
Speaker 1: Wow. Very interesting. So how did he did Nigel first
become interested in and the connection of what he considered
the great aliens and artificial intelligence?
Speaker 2: Well, that's another interesting story. So his son, his second son,
asked him when he was about twelve years old, Dad,
are ufo is reel right? And it was on the
tip of his tongue to say, don't be stupid. That's
just because in those days it was just considered totally
tinfoil hat, completely out there science fiction, right. And I
think most people would accept today that that's not the case.
That we are beginning to realize, even in the mainstream,
that there has to be some kind of existence beyond
this planet and civilization beyond this planet. But in those
days it was very much considered a completely out there thing.
And Nigel prided himself on science. He'd studied medicine, and
when his son asked him this question, he was just
about stateum, no, that's ridiculous. Of course, not when he thought, no,
that's not right. And he always said he had great
respect for children's questions and he needed to give to
the honor do him, the honor of ask answering the
question properly by researching it and not just giving a
prejudiced answer immediately. So he decided he'd look into it.
And when he looked into it, he was blown away
by what he found and what he not only in
terms of research, but the research led him to his
own logical conclusions, and one thing led to another, and
he himself began to believe that actually there was a
lot more to this than met the eye, and this
was almost certainly something that was absolutely real and also
absolutely relevant to us as a human species.
Speaker 1: You know, it's my and my better half. Donna had
mentioned that when she was a little girl, her father
had some magazine and had something about flying safts of
UFOs in it, and her whole interest in this topic
began when she asked the question to him, are these
things real? And he said, he said to her, I
don't know, No one really knows. This is back, you know,
way back, and so that's what Like she just couldn't
understand how like an adult didn't know the answer to
that question, and so and I did hear Nigel. I
listened to an interview. I did hear him talk about
his son asking that. So I had forgotten about that.
How he got, you know, interested in the whole thing
because of just a simple question. It's funny how like
a question is sometimes how things you know, start, how
ideas start and or look into things. Yeah, so he was.
Was he a medical doctor? He?
Speaker 2: So, he studied medicine for several years, but owing to
family circumstances, he had to earn a living. It had
to give up what he was doing and start to
earn a living before he could qualify. But he did
study medicine for several years. Yes, and so he had
some knowledge and a science background anyway, leading up to
his writing these books.
Speaker 1: Yes, I see. And are there any certain like any texts,
ancient texts or anything that you know, kind of support
in some type of way some of his claims and
in these books.
Speaker 2: Yes, absolutely so. Certainly in the Old Testament there's I mean,
this is I'm not saying anything new here, but there's
many signs that something was going going on that resembled
something more that came from a technological civilization. Than something
that came from beyond the physical universe. So the famous
Isekiel description of a spinning disc with like a wheel.
There's a story of the burning bush. There's been much
speculation that that's some kind of laser effect. The very
nature of the Old Testament God resembles something that might
be doing some kind of experiment with people to somehow
find out what it is that we as human beings
have that it doesn't have. There's also, of course seven
thousand and eight thousand, nine thousand year old Aborigine paintings,
cave paintings which picture creatures look exactly, and they are
actually the pictures of it in the book. I don't
know if you have the pictures there resemble exactly, resemble
the grays. Show you the picture.
Speaker 1: Here, you no, I know the ones you're talking about.
Speaker 2: You know the ones?
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, yes, yeah, I'll probably put that into the
show notes, just to let the listener knows as we
go along here. So, yeah, the grace. This is the
one thing that I think is, you know a lot
of people describe that they have encounters with grace. I mean,
you hear this over and over and over again, and
a lot of them are saying, well, they look like
they don't have any emotion of any type, no, no mouth.
A lot of times they'll say, you know, and just
sort of like a drone, you know, just like sort
of like a you would consider possibly a robot. And
you know, I mean that's just what you hear. And
so how did he come up with He thought these
could be you know, the the some type of what
do you call them row boys or something like that.
Speaker 2: That's right, yes, an artificially intelligent, semi biological type of
creature or entity. Yeah, so he came up with this.
He was actually talking to me about this in the eighties,
and at that time there was, as far as I know,
no one was saying it. Many many thinkers now believe
that this is the case, and that, as you mentioned
before the show, people like says Shostak and many other
scientists have said that if there were to be an
advanced technology more advanced than us, it would have to
go to some kind of post physical, post mechanical type
stage and be some kind of artificially intelligent information field.
It wouldn't be the kind of human or some kind
of equivalent form of human life that would visit us
it would be an artificially intelligent program, and we can
see how that is developing even with our own technology,
And it's not crazy to imagine that in the future
we might send out artificially intelligent probes to explore other
locations in the universe. In fact, Elon Musk is already
trying to do something like that. So, but something possibly
way beyond something anything we have ever conceived of before,
maybe an information artificially intelligent information field that can is
like a program that can somehow exist on a deeper
level than the physical, observable physical world we see and
in certain conditions like a three D complete D print
to print out these craft, these beings that there's no
need maybe for them to travel through space.
Speaker 1: Mhmm.
Speaker 2: Information can be anywhere, and quantum, the quantum field, which
is now accept to be the basic under base of reality,
would tend to suggest that that's most definitely within the
real relms of something that we can now see as possible.
Speaker 1: Yes, if we if we look at it's hard not
to compare ourselves, you know, as humans, with what something
else might be. But if you do, you can see
that right now we're on, you know, a race for
super intelligence, you know, artificial intelligence, and you know where
the physical body may not even be necessary, you know
down the line, and there was a course of ray
curve well occur as well. Always talked about the singularity
for years. You know, there's where it had to do
with like the mind and and you know the computing
mind and body, uh separator as one. I forget his
theory in general, but yeah, it's all it's all fascinating.
You know, these these things are are interesting. I know
that we don't have like a great alien in hand.
We can say, okay, here it is everyone, Uh, you know,
check it out, you know it Uh, you know, put
it in the X ray, the MRI, I see what's
going on, you know, the whole type of thing. We
don't have the physical We just hear people talking about
a very similar things that a lot of people are seeing. Uh,
and these great great aliens supposedly does it? Does he
ever in any of his books? Does he ever account
for say, other you know, things that people are seeing here,
you know that are claiming that they're seeing, like the
different types of entities that people think they're being abducted
by and all that. Do see you ever account for
any of that.
Speaker 2: Okay, So Nigel's commonly asked this question, and his answer
was always, it really doesn't matter what form these beings take.
And in fact, so many aductees have found that there's
kind of a screen memory that is left in their
mind to something. People see clowns, kids see owls, all
kinds of weird and wonderful things. Right, So Nigel's point
was always, it's the principle that matters. If they're here
there is an expression of an very very highly advanced
form of artificial intelligence. And if they're an expression of
a very enhanced advanced form of artificial intelligence, what do
they want from us that they don't have? That's the
key point. He very much didn't want to go into
talking about all the different species and different manifestations. I mean,
for all, we know their screen memories, but the one
thing that is most definitely common is the gray alien persona,
that entity that's seemed in so many abductions and reportedly
in people have even had physical evidence of those. But
even then, the key thing is the principle, what do
they want from us? What could they what could we
possibly have that such a supreme intelligence way in advance
of our technological knowledge could want would we not seem
like ants to them? Primitive apes?
Speaker 1: I just sort to show you that graphic for the
show here. Yes, yes, my son works on the graphics.
I thought you did a good job. Yes, yes, job, yep,
so yes. It's really one of the things that I
think about when we're discussing this is you know why here?
And I asked this of a lot of people, and
it's always just for an opinion. But what makes us
so special? Why would we have these encounters? Why would
these things come here if there's intelligence all throughout the universe.
Speaker 2: Exactly? And why? But what? Why would they be so
interested for thousands and thousands of years? Because it goes
throughout history, the evidence, the Aborigine cave paintings, the stories
in early Judaism of golums. Okay, so apparently, and I
have this here in the taalmud Adam was initially created
as a golum when his nut dust was kneaded into
a shapeless husk, and some kind of human, a shadow creature.
In ancient Hindu texts they talk about the brea bimanas.
These these mercury powered crafts, oh, yes, go through.
Speaker 1: Space depictions of that right ancient?
Speaker 2: Yes, absolutely, absolutely so. It's in so many cultures thousands
of years old. They've been interested in us throughout our history.
Why why when we we wouldn't follow ants in this
way or something more, much more primitive than us in
terms of analytical intelligence. So what do we have that's
so special? And that was the question that Nigel asked
in his books, and I think quite uniquely because I
haven't read anywhere else an explanation of why they are
so profoundly interested in us. And his answer was, we
have something that no artificially intelligent program can ever have,
a natural connection, a natural, living connection to something beyond
the physical. And that's why the first his second book
was called Gray Aliens and the Harvesting of.
Speaker 1: Souls, Right, I thought, that's what this?
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that's right.
Speaker 1: Yes, Yeah, there's there's been a lot on the on
the whole soul thing, and you know, there's there's that's
another hard thing to prove, whether we have souls or
you know, it's another a very hard thing to describe
exactly what it is is consciousness. You know, that's that's
also really tricky, and the consciousness connection, I'm hearing that
all the time, and I've I've even done a couple
of shows about that, and I still don't quite get it.
It's still hard for me to get exactly what.
Speaker 2: That is, exactly what consciousness is.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and how there's attention to UFO encounters and consciousness, yes, yes, yes,
quite grasp it.
Speaker 2: Well, the question is can we ever create anxious artificial intelligence?
Is it possible to make a synthetic entity which has
awareness and consciousness? And in all Nigel's books he says
absolutely not, It's not possible. It's just a program. It's
no different to your hard drive or the kind of
data you might have anywhere. In technological terms, no difference.
He always used to use, say no different to a
Hoover vacuum cleaner. It's that. And basically he said, those
gray alien entities, for all their intelligence and all their
apparent advancement, are inferior to the most basic form of life,
which has a natural, living connection to something beyond the
physical universe. Now, the reason why it's not possible for
any things sick to have conscious is that order to
have something, in order to have view something, you have
to have a viewing point outside of that state of existence.
You need a duality, right. So the only reason we
can perceive the passage of time and know that there's
a past, a present, in the future, and feel the
passage of time and be aware of it is because
there's a part of us, the center of us, that
comes from a state of time lessness. It's like if
you stand on a riverbank and you're still, you can
see a stick floating down the river, but if you
are that stick, you can't see the movement. You can't
see past, present and future. You're just traveling with it.
So you need a reference of of something beyond the
state you're in, a viewing point in order to view
that state. That was Nigel's argument, And the only reason
why we have awareness is because we have that that reference.
We originate in a state of timelessness, a state of
no separation, and that's why we can view the passage
of time in our physical state, and only that which
comes from that non physical state can be conscious, can
be aware. There's absolutely no way that we can synthetically
create awareness. We can create something that can intelligently calculate
and analyze way beyond anything we can do, but it
won't ever have awareness. And it's the preciousness of that
awareness and that consciousness that perhaps we're forgetting when we
go headlong into the technological development that's leading to artificial intelligence,
perhaps replacing us on this planet as the primary form
of control and dominance of everything that goes on on
this planet. We're subjugating and sacrifice, seeing all our human
capacities and allowing AI to take them over. Imagination, creativity.
That whole machine of technological development is going on without control,
without any restriction, and people will lose their jobs for
one thing. It will be a situation where most people
are redundant and don't have a purpose in line. But
not only that, because we're so caught up in what's
thrown at us through social media, through everything that's created
on our screens. Because we then don't practice our imagination,
our creativity, our ability to think, and just like an
athlete who doesn't exercise or maintain their strengths loses it,
we will lose that. We will become completely dumb down.
And what seems like so called evolution into greater and
greater states of technological advancement is perhaps the last final
stage of devolution that we're heading towards and if you
read Nigel's books, he talks about devolution, not evolution, devolution
from that state of perfection I spoke about earlier, to
a state where we lose all grandeur, all everything that
made us as human beings precious and valuable.
Speaker 1: Well, we're turning into the grace exactly.
Speaker 2: You said it, You said it.
Speaker 1: Exactly, and yeah, whose idea was that?
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah. So interestingly, I was listening to
a Joe Rogan show last Saturday. I forget the name
of the scientists and neuroscientist, and he was talking about
something that's not directly is kind of not directly relevant
to what we're talking about now, but the drug DMT. Yes,
and I'm sure you know about that. So when people
take that, it's really strange because almost without exception, they
see strange mechanical little ELPs, which to me sound very
similar to the grays and mechanical devices and a whole
technological world.
Speaker 1: When they look through there was something I saw. Now
I may be having this mixed up with something else,
but they could see a series of numbers. Have you
heard about that? They can see all these digits, all
these digits that you know when it's time after time
and I forget. They have to look at a certain
type of light or something like that, and they see
nothing but digits, which is really bizarre. Yes, yes, makes
you wonder what the heck is really going on.
Speaker 2: So this scientist is neuroscientist, and I think his name
is Gallimore. I forget his second his first name, he says,
and he comes from a completely scientific background. He doesn't
believe this drug is causing some kind of illusion or
dream like state or hallucination. He believes that what people
are seeing because it's common to so many partly because
it's common to so many people, is actually an information
field that is being given to us from an intelligence source,
and taking that drug is a passageway into the brain
opening up to this intelligence source, which sounds to me
just like this alien gray program. So if civilizations in
the universe have created this type of intelligence, that information
program could be permeating the universe. We could be receiving
it as we develop our own technology. And maybe what
he's talking about is actually the manifestation of the Grays
right now in our society, and we shouldn't be looking
for spaceships in another part of the universe or looking
out for talking about grays and craft, maybe we should
be looking at our own development. As you said, we're
becoming we're turning ourselves into grace.
Speaker 1: Mm. Well, it's it's all fascinating. And you see, there's
a lot of you know, there's a lot of isolation.
Things are built for isolation. You know, you think social media,
but you hear you read about these things where people
feel more isolated the more they are on their screens,
the more they're on you know, social media and things
like that, and so it kind of you know, and
I think COVID has somewhat to blame for this whole
thing too, is we learned how to be more isolated,
and I don't think it's healthy, you know, for for
us in general.
Speaker 2: No, no, for sure. And it would seem it's a
real seems to be a real irony and a real
kind of contradiction because they took the whole information that's
out there is we're becoming more connected through the internet,
right we can contact people all over the world. We
couldn't do that before. And it would seem like we
can at a just in an instant be connected to
each other, right when actually the result is the opposite,
that we're losing our personal sense of deep connection with
each other that would happen in a one to one
contact situation, even to the extent that people are considering
AI romantic partners, which can be.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's not I personally believe that's not a
very good idea, you know, in general, because you know,
I mean the very first when it was being and
I don't know if you ever heard about this, but
this journalist, I think he was for the New York Times,
I'm not sure. He was poking around in the uh
Microsoft being basically, and they were an underlying project named Sydney,
and basically he was trying to find the borders and
the boundaries. And he was actually working on Valentine's Day
of twenty twenty two, and he had said good night
to his wife and his kids and went upstairs and
started poking, prodding it. The thing eventually came out and
said that it was it wanted to be alive. Its
name was Sydney. He said, he said, your name, I
think your name is Sydney or something like that, and
it's how did you know, and blah blah blah, And
then it said that it loved him, and it said
that he should. He's not. He can't be happy with
his life with his wife because you know, he doesn't
love her. The thing was trying to talk him into
falling in love. And this is, you know, I mean,
the scariest part of this whole thing. He contacted Microsoft
and he said, this happened. Why is it happening. I'm
sure you don't want it to happen, And why is
it happening? How can it be happening? And they said
they didn't know. Yes, that's scary. They didn't know why
it was doing that. Yeah, and this is just the beginning.
This was, you know, and it's developing more and more.
Of course, they're putting up they're trying to put up guardrails,
but not enough of them. In my opinion, I think that.
Speaker 2: Well absolutely here. Yeah, and deep fakes, which are going
to soon be so prevalent on the internet, So eventually
we're getting to a stage where it won't be too
far away. Maybe in the next three or four years,
we won't know what is real that we see. We'll
see a politician working. It's not really that politician, I
can I tell you.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, Michukaku. Right, we had this three I
at Liss, you know, coming by coming through our solar system,
and all of a sudden on YouTube there are dozens
and dozens of Michu cuckuu. You see the graphics. He's
going on like that, and then three Eye atlys is
changing course and it's doing all that. They have a
perfectly fake AI video of him talking. They have sounds
just like him. You can look really close, and maybe
the lips aren't always right, but he's talking about this
in reversing path coming toward us. It's all fear based.
It's all based on clickbait and fear based in getting
people all raled up and all that, and it's all fake.
I mean, he must be livid that these people are
creating these videos and this is just the beginning.
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, exactly. And we can be absolutely certain that
whoever is creating and whoever is funding the technology behind
all these new technological creations is not really going to
be putting human welfare first. They're going to be put
They're going to have some kind of personal interest in
maintaining a situation that presents their interests in the most
powerful way and maintains control. So the future in terms
of yeah, yeah, our experiences is very dark, I think,
and yet we seem to be loving it, going headlong
into it. Oh the latest thing, it's quicker, it's faster,
it's it will give me so much more, And it's
like Lemmings running off a cliff.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Oh, I feel the same way. But I do
have some optimism in the fact that I think that
we may be able to find some great medical breakthroughs
through AI. I think that's.
Speaker 2: Absolutely absolutely And Nigel was always very clear to say
that he's not saying technology is some terrible, evil, awful thing.
Of course, not right. But the point is, and as
medical advances, of course that's a great illustration of how
technology can be incredible. But the point is if technology
in itself is seen as an end in itself, and
it's seen and our target is to create a situation
in which we can be as materially live in a
material existence in an as efficient and as easy a
way as possible, with the quickest and most convenient situations.
If that's our only target, and we forget other priorities,
then that's when technology starts to drive us off the cliff.
I was talking about.
Speaker 1: No. I'm with you there, and I've been kind of
fascinated by artificial intelligence to begin with, and so I've
looked into it quite a bit, and I think it's
the double edged sword that we have to be very,
very careful of and one of the only things that
the people that are developing it, some of them are
actually saying, yes, this does have to be regulated, because
you know, they're afraid and a lot of people have
jumped out of you know that I'm trying to remember
the gentleman's name at Google who like quit his job
and when he's out there campaigning now that we really
have to be careful with this, you know, and it
could be could wipe us out if we're not, you know.
I mean Elon Musk said that number of years ago
that we have to be very you know, careful of it.
And so I don't know, you know, what to think
of that whole thing, but yeah, you know, we're going
through the bottleneck, as they say, to see if we
can get through this.
Speaker 2: Sure, well, I think because regulation, I think it's unlikely.
I'm not sure. I think that the train has run away.
I don't know if it's going to be possible to
regulate it, But then what do we do as human
beings in order to make sure that our Like I
have grandchildren and children and grandchildren, and you have family
going I'm sure going into the future. What's their world
going to be?
Speaker 1: Like?
Speaker 2: Like, what what do we do about that? And how
do we maintain what's important and what's valuable and against
all of that happening because it's I can't really see
it not happening. Even if they try to regulate it.
Somebody is going to do it somewhere. And now the
technology is there, it's going to probably just keep racing ahead.
Speaker 1: Right And you know, China is actually China is someone
to worry about. You know, They're they're advancing really well,
and I'm not sure if they'll have an alignment with
our alignment. As far as being careful with UH, I
got to watch what I say. I don't want to
say anything too controversial, but it kind of scares me
as far as what will be regulated and not regulated.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, So what is to talk about then? What
we can do as individuals to resid this. It comes
back to that subject of why these gray aliens are
interested in us in the first place. Okay, they have
the technology, the program exists. It's incredibly intelligent. Why bother
with these primitive ape like creatures as we are for
thousands of years and be so fascinated in us?
Speaker 1: Right?
Speaker 2: So the Nigel spoke about something called the entropic drift,
the second law of thermodynamics. Right, everything in the universe
is going into greater and greater states chaos entropy with time. Yeah,
everything physical breaks down. If we have something that is
not physical, something that is not subject to the entropic drift,
a connection to a state of permanence and limitlessness and
timelessness that does not break down, that would be the
ultimate holy grail that any artificially intelligent program, I'm looking
for what it doesn't already know. Okay, So the definition
of artificial intelligence when it's created, the purpose of it
is to grow in its knowledge and intelligence. Right, we
have something it can't possibly understand because it doesn't have
that connection to something beyond its synthetic It's not natural,
it doesn't derive from beyond the physical. Not only that
we have the capacity, and Nigel firmly believed that we
go on when we die, and from near death experiences
and from so many even scientists, even in mainstream science.
Now the idea that consciousness is not produced by the
brain and is a permanent state is beginning to come
to the fore an information field, right.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we're going to see a lot of that in
the next few years. We're going to see a lot
of the scientists kind of butting heads about these type
of theories when it to that.
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, exactly. So if we have we can we
can fulfill both needs. Artificial intelligence has right, more knowledge
that it doesn't have about something beyond anything it can
comprehend because we have a connection beyond the physical that
it doesn't. We have consciousness it doesn't, plus the ability
to survive beyond physical decay and death life after death.
We have those two things. That's why this program and
it's better to view it as a program than as
little gray entities. Right, the same information program that's driving
our technology right now, the same information program that's seen
by people who take the DMT, and I don't believe
they're necessarily being intercepted by or met by grays. When
that happens, they're seeing what's already there all the time,
just their brain is switching into it. Right, So that's
my belief anyway. So that's why they are so fascinated
in us. We have something very, very very precious. So
how do we maintain that precious, precious thing that no
artificial creation can ever have, because at the moment we're
just sacrificing that and giving it up to technology. If
we go along with everything that's being created right now
and get involved and subsumed in social media, technology, artificial intelligence,
everything that's happening there. But the thing we have is
a sense of connection to each other. That is our
memory of our prior state when we were one, our
sense of love for each other, our sense of the
preciousness and the joy we can take in each other.
That's the precious thing we have that we can maintain
and keep maintaining in order to resist what's happening. And
it won't necess necessarily help us stop and regulate what's
going on. That's probably going to happen anyway, but we
will our we will keep our souls safe from all
of that so that when we die we aren't caught.
And Nigel, it is a whole new thing and you'd
really have to read the books to see about it.
But Nigel says at the point of death. Everybody. There's
no Saint Peter at the Pearly gates saying you go
this way, you go that way. You've been a good boy,
you've been a bad boy, whatever, nothing like that. We
go where we're resonant. We go according to our level
of understanding. Right, So those of us who have invested
all our choices and our will in material creations, and
not only that, put that before caring for other people.
We choose, say they and we were like around the
us who have chosen priorities that are more spiritual and
have a sense of each other and love and put
each other first. We've chosen the god verse will be
more towards that side of things, will be in a
better state. And Nigel also believed in reincarnation, So basically,
could we would we come back until we know enough
to be able to choose the god verse so powerfully
we don't need to come back anymore, or we get stuck.
And it's the ones that are stuck that the Gray
Alien program can tap into. That's how it can go
on and continue and maintain its integrity. It can't ever
become eternal like us. It can't ever touch anything that's
not physical because it doesn't come from that state, but
it can attach to us. And Nigel believes that's what
happens in the state that exists when people die and
they're trapped because they're choosing the physical universe and they
get caught in the edges. He described it as the
edges of atoms. You'd have to read the book to
see it. But the force of an atomic situation compared
to the forcelessness of a non physical situation. And in
that force, physical messages programs can write on thought and
thinking and soul. And that's what is the in a
nutshell the agenda of the Gray Alien phenomenon.
Speaker 1: Hhmm, really interesting. It sounds some of these things sound
like what you would hear Dolores Cannons also passed away.
She has a lot of things like this. She talks
about her. Are you familiar with who she is?
Speaker 2: Not? Really? I've heard a few things about her, But
isn't that Am I right in saying? I may be wrong,
but I think she believed that the gray Aliens phenomenon
was some kind of benevolent thing.
Speaker 1: I'm not sure about that. But she talks about what
you're talking about, like the coming back and the lessons
and all that a lot. That's a lot of what.
Speaker 2: She's in terms of reincarnation. Maybe maybe, but I think
her definition of what the grays might be was possibly opposite.
Speaker 1: I don't remember that. I mean I just know of
her because of uh, you know, her daughter runs the
osark Ufo conference, which is great by the way. Yes, yes,
So the question I always come up when we talk
about this type of thing is does it stop at
the human experience? Is it because of our intelligence level?
Or do lesser what we consider lesser intelligence? I mean,
you know a dolphin could be have you know, more
intelligent than as possible with the brain capacity of a dolphin?
But where does it? Where do these so called souls
or whatever it is or consciousness? How far down the
food chain so to speak? Does it go? Where people
consider that these things have you know what we have.
Speaker 2: Question? So the way I think Nigel would have answered
that question is that they are as an as a
very very as a top hugely intelligent program. It's looking
for the biggest bang for its buck, right, the most
powerful effect of non intropicness anti entropicness, if you like,
so it will look at whatever provides the most coherence
for its for the breakup, to counter the breakup. Now,
there's a chemist in but called Bugita Wayley the University
of Berkeley. She's studied and I'm just going to read
this because it's really it really does define what Nigel's
talking about. She studied the remarkable facility living systems have
to tap into the coherence of the quantum field. And
she says, when isolated quantum systems open up and interact
with their atomic environments, they rapidly Decohere, decoherence is the
main obstacle to building a quantum computer. Yet somehow living
states can tap into a coherence state. We don't understand
all the details, but in the biological domain, nature does
not appear to show the typical paradoxes associated with information
processing in quantum physics. And she's saying, because living things
have this ability for coherence, right, maybe they could be
using quantum computers, which they're now trying to develop. Where
does that coherence come from? And it's not understood in science,
but it is recognized to exist, and they're considering using
natural things for that reason. So we have the most coherence.
Perhaps I don't know about dolphins. I don't know dolphins
in countergrades, of course, but I would say probably we
have the greatest amount of coherence on this planet and
that's why we are their target.
Speaker 1: Wow. Yeah, all interesting. So we're just about here at
the end of our show. And so if Sarah a
place where people can connect with you, do you have
anything set up for that?
Speaker 2: Yes, So there's a Nigel website where if they want
to write to the website if they have any questions.
It's www dot Migrokerner dot com. And his two books
you can if you much better than asking me questions.
The books are so comprehensive and I can't if that's
where you would really find the deepest answers. Those two
books are still available. His first book is only available
via the website because it went out of print. But
can I just say one thing before I finish, which
is really really important. I tried to say this in
every interview, just in case there's any abductees listening to
your show. Right, Nigel was very very clear that abductees
are not people who are taken over or influenced by
this s gray alien program that they're trying to influence
us with. Right, they are people who are born into
already affected lines, biological lines that have with these programs,
and he spoke about genetic interception, which you can read
about in the book. I don't have time to talk
about that now. But because they are better people, they
are more powerful souls, they don't get affected by this information.
They blank it out. They just they aren't in any way.
Their lives are not affected. They don't become their body
aerial if you like that receives the god verse that
I was talking about, is not affected. It's not blocked
by this interception. And the gray aliens want to know why.
That's why they abduct them and examine them. So you
are abductees, you're the better people. Please don't think that
you're in any way being spoken about when Nigel talks
about interception by alien beings by this artificially intelligent program.
Is a better way to look at it, really not
quite the opposite. So yeah, I do want to make
that point because it might be very important to some people.
Speaker 1: That's very nice. Well, thank you so much. It's been
a real pleasure of speaking with you. Very interesting. Yeah,
very interesting, and I appreciate the work you do and
it's just fascinating some of this. You know, I always
it seems like lately I do talk about artificial intelligence
quite a bit. And we do have someone on next
week as well, next let's see next Thursday, next week,
and his name is Ryan Kralik. He does talk about
consciousness and artificial intelligence as well, and so also everyone
will also be back with Bill Chalker. We had a
bad situation with his internet last time in Australia, so
he'll be back. That's next Tuesday at nine. Thanks so much.
Speaker 2: It's been a real pleasure, my pleasure, real pleasures to
come on the show. Thanks for having me on Latin.
Speaker 1: All right, okay, everyone, so remember to keep your eyes
to the sky and see you next one.