1 00:00:01,120 --> 00:00:04,160 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Mind Over Murder podcast. 2 00:00:06,000 --> 00:00:09,679 Speaker 2: My name is Bill Thomas. I'm a writer, consulting, producer, 3 00:00:09,720 --> 00:00:12,839 and now podcaster. I am now trying to use my 4 00:00:12,919 --> 00:00:15,800 experience as the brother of a murder victim to help 5 00:00:15,839 --> 00:00:18,600 other victims of violent crime. I'm working on a book 6 00:00:18,679 --> 00:00:21,440 on the unsolved Colonial Parkway murders and I'm the co 7 00:00:21,519 --> 00:00:24,760 administrator of the Colonial Parkway Murders Facebook group together with 8 00:00:24,839 --> 00:00:25,519 Kristin Dilly. 9 00:00:26,079 --> 00:00:27,359 Speaker 1: My name is Kristin Dilly. 10 00:00:27,519 --> 00:00:31,199 Speaker 3: I'm a writer, a researcher, a teacher, and a victim's advocate, 11 00:00:31,359 --> 00:00:34,719 as well as the social media manager and co administrator 12 00:00:34,799 --> 00:00:37,799 for the Colonial Parkway Murders Facebook page with my partner 13 00:00:37,840 --> 00:00:39,399 in crime, Bill Thomas. 14 00:00:41,320 --> 00:00:42,679 Speaker 1: Welcome to Mind Over Murder. 15 00:00:42,719 --> 00:00:45,920 Speaker 4: I'm Kristin Dilly and I'm Bill Thomas, and we are 16 00:00:46,039 --> 00:00:49,200 so happy today to have our three favorite retired FBI 17 00:00:49,280 --> 00:00:52,240 agents joining us for a very special episode of Mind 18 00:00:52,240 --> 00:00:57,799 over Murder discussing criminal minds, which just turned twenty years old. Jim, 19 00:00:57,960 --> 00:01:00,159 Fitz and Bobby, thank you so much for can we 20 00:01:00,240 --> 00:01:00,840 need us today? 21 00:01:01,240 --> 00:01:02,799 Speaker 5: How you doing for having me? 22 00:01:03,159 --> 00:01:06,159 Speaker 6: Great to be here, and just Jim and Fitz are 23 00:01:06,159 --> 00:01:07,319 two different people. 24 00:01:08,760 --> 00:01:09,799 Speaker 5: That's why you have to do that. 25 00:01:10,400 --> 00:01:13,599 Speaker 6: Although Jim fitz is Jim fitz on his own, this 26 00:01:13,640 --> 00:01:18,879 is Jim Clemente and Jim Fitzgerald and Bobby come and. 27 00:01:18,799 --> 00:01:20,239 Speaker 5: Bobby don't forget. 28 00:01:20,799 --> 00:01:21,760 Speaker 7: Oh who the host again? 29 00:01:21,799 --> 00:01:22,439 Speaker 5: What are your names? 30 00:01:24,519 --> 00:01:28,439 Speaker 7: Kristin Dilley and Bill Thomas? Wow, justid here we go 31 00:01:29,079 --> 00:01:29,879 and I'll tell you thank you. 32 00:01:30,640 --> 00:01:32,439 Speaker 4: We are so glad to see you guys, and thank 33 00:01:32,480 --> 00:01:33,879 you for taking the time to do this. 34 00:01:33,959 --> 00:01:35,120 Speaker 7: I know you've got very. 35 00:01:34,959 --> 00:01:38,519 Speaker 4: Busy schedules, but we couldn't let Criminal Minds Turning twenty 36 00:01:38,760 --> 00:01:41,480 pass by without having you jump on the pods talk 37 00:01:41,680 --> 00:01:44,480 a little bit, even though you've all been on the 38 00:01:44,480 --> 00:01:47,439 pod various times. Go ahead, and just real quick reintroduce 39 00:01:47,480 --> 00:01:49,760 yourselves to our listeners and tell us about the role 40 00:01:49,840 --> 00:01:52,400 you played on the Criminal Minds Creative staff fits. 41 00:01:52,480 --> 00:01:53,400 Speaker 7: Let's start with you. 42 00:01:54,040 --> 00:01:58,040 Speaker 8: Yeah, Jim Fitzgerald, FBI twenty years eighty seven to two 43 00:01:58,040 --> 00:02:01,400 thousand and seven, New York for seven years profiling unit 44 00:02:01,480 --> 00:02:04,519 from ninety five on, had a little case called Unibomb 45 00:02:04,719 --> 00:02:07,079 and worked that. Then a few years later Jim Clemente 46 00:02:07,239 --> 00:02:09,599 joined me. He joined me at the Academy, joined me 47 00:02:09,639 --> 00:02:11,319 in New York on the bank robbery Squad. 48 00:02:11,599 --> 00:02:13,240 Speaker 5: Then a few years later in New York. 49 00:02:13,560 --> 00:02:15,919 Speaker 8: After New York went through a profiling unit in Quantico 50 00:02:16,000 --> 00:02:19,000 and yeah, busy working cases there. Then around two thousand 51 00:02:19,000 --> 00:02:22,240 and five, Jim said, Hey, there's a new show in Hollywood. 52 00:02:22,240 --> 00:02:25,879 Fits let's do a phone call and help the writers out. Okay, 53 00:02:25,960 --> 00:02:28,000 sounds good, Jim. And that's how I first got into 54 00:02:28,159 --> 00:02:30,759 the whole Criminal mind sing thanks to Jim C. 55 00:02:30,960 --> 00:02:33,400 Speaker 4: Of course, Jim C. 56 00:02:33,520 --> 00:02:36,599 Speaker 7: You want to go next? Sure? I got involved actually 57 00:02:36,639 --> 00:02:37,719 before the show started. 58 00:02:37,840 --> 00:02:41,280 Speaker 6: Mandy Pittankin happened to be in Quantico because he wanted 59 00:02:41,319 --> 00:02:43,879 to interview profilers before he decided whether or not to 60 00:02:44,039 --> 00:02:46,560 be on the show. And I was recovering from a 61 00:02:46,560 --> 00:02:49,039 bone male transplant at the time two thousand and five, 62 00:02:49,159 --> 00:02:51,560 and I got a call from a friend who said, look, 63 00:02:51,599 --> 00:02:55,000 I'm bringing this actor around. And he asked if there's 64 00:02:55,039 --> 00:02:57,639 anybody in the FBI with a personality, because I guess 65 00:02:57,639 --> 00:03:01,639 he's been with all the administrative people. So he called 66 00:03:01,680 --> 00:03:04,280 me and said could you meet with him? And I said, look, 67 00:03:04,360 --> 00:03:06,719 I can, but I have to wear a mask in 68 00:03:06,759 --> 00:03:09,960 gloves because I'm recovering and I don't have an immune 69 00:03:09,960 --> 00:03:12,879 system right now. And so we met at this bagel 70 00:03:12,919 --> 00:03:15,560 place and I walk in and MANDYU. Tank and walks 71 00:03:15,599 --> 00:03:18,000 up to me and shakes my hand, and he doesn't 72 00:03:18,000 --> 00:03:20,639 say anything about Inigo Montoya, but he says, I'm Mandy 73 00:03:20,639 --> 00:03:22,560 Patanka and I said, of course you're Mandy B. 74 00:03:22,680 --> 00:03:22,840 Speaker 8: Tank. 75 00:03:23,039 --> 00:03:26,319 Speaker 6: I got to do it, and he shook your hand. 76 00:03:26,599 --> 00:03:29,919 He did shake my glove hand. He basically said, all right, 77 00:03:29,960 --> 00:03:31,680 tell me your best case and your worst case. And 78 00:03:31,719 --> 00:03:34,520 you might remember that name from somewhere. And I said, 79 00:03:34,680 --> 00:03:36,560 tell you my best case. My worst case is not 80 00:03:36,800 --> 00:03:39,960 for entertainment purposes. So I told him my best case 81 00:03:40,000 --> 00:03:42,199 about an abduction where I helped save this six year 82 00:03:42,240 --> 00:03:44,080 old boy. And as soon as I was done, he 83 00:03:44,080 --> 00:03:46,080 picked up the phone called Mark Gordon said, I'll do 84 00:03:46,199 --> 00:03:49,159 the show, but you got to meet this guy, Jim Clementy. 85 00:03:49,240 --> 00:03:50,919 We got to bring him out. I want to base 86 00:03:50,960 --> 00:03:53,879 my character on him. And I was like great. So 87 00:03:54,159 --> 00:03:57,639 shortly thereafter I drove out to LA because I couldn't 88 00:03:57,639 --> 00:04:02,520 fly yet. I met Mark Gordon, ed Buonaro, who's the showrunner, 89 00:04:02,879 --> 00:04:07,479 and then the entire writing staff and then the cast 90 00:04:08,080 --> 00:04:11,560 and I started telling the stories and they started becoming episodes, 91 00:04:11,719 --> 00:04:14,199 and I became the tech advisor on the show, and 92 00:04:14,240 --> 00:04:17,839 then shortly thereafter I got Jim Fitz to become the 93 00:04:18,319 --> 00:04:21,519 official tech advisor on the show while I was still 94 00:04:21,639 --> 00:04:24,160 an FBI agent, And then when I retired, I came 95 00:04:24,199 --> 00:04:28,120 on as a full time writer, and in between season two, 96 00:04:28,199 --> 00:04:31,759 I became an independent writer on the show. I wrote 97 00:04:31,800 --> 00:04:33,240 an episode in season two. 98 00:04:33,759 --> 00:04:36,959 Speaker 9: Award winning episode Jim It Yeah, one of Human Rights 99 00:04:36,959 --> 00:04:39,920 Award actually, and then when I retired, I became a 100 00:04:39,959 --> 00:04:42,639 full time writer and producer on the show all the 101 00:04:42,680 --> 00:04:43,879 way through today. 102 00:04:44,000 --> 00:04:46,839 Speaker 6: I'm still involved in the show. It's now Criminal Minds Evolution, 103 00:04:47,199 --> 00:04:50,639 and Aman's involved as a consultant on the show. Now 104 00:04:50,680 --> 00:04:54,399 I'm not in the writer's room. I am very very 105 00:04:54,439 --> 00:04:57,240 happy to still be involved. We just wrapped season nineteen 106 00:04:57,439 --> 00:04:59,920 and I noticed that in the Jim Fitz is Back 107 00:05:00,079 --> 00:05:03,000 Crown you could see a little thing about a little 108 00:05:03,000 --> 00:05:06,439 show called man Hunt Unibomber, which I also wrote and 109 00:05:06,560 --> 00:05:10,040 created that show, just because when Jim was leaving in 110 00:05:10,079 --> 00:05:12,800 two thousand and seven, I said, before you go, yeah, 111 00:05:13,000 --> 00:05:15,399 we're going to talk, and I had him tell me 112 00:05:15,519 --> 00:05:19,000 that his entire story with respect to the unibomb case, 113 00:05:19,199 --> 00:05:21,000 and of course I knew a lot of it because 114 00:05:21,120 --> 00:05:24,000 I was there with him at the Bau when it 115 00:05:24,079 --> 00:05:27,519 was going on. But I also I knew that he 116 00:05:27,560 --> 00:05:29,959 had a lot of other anecdotes to tell me. So 117 00:05:30,000 --> 00:05:32,399 I wrote it all down and it took about ten years, 118 00:05:32,439 --> 00:05:35,279 I think, before we actually got it on the screen, 119 00:05:35,399 --> 00:05:37,720 but we did, and we got to tell Jim Fitz's 120 00:05:37,720 --> 00:05:38,879 story and that was amazing. 121 00:05:39,680 --> 00:05:42,240 Speaker 10: They couldn't find an actor's good looking as fits, so 122 00:05:42,279 --> 00:05:44,079 they got Sam Worthington to play. 123 00:05:45,920 --> 00:05:47,680 Speaker 5: He couldn't even talk Philly talk man. 124 00:05:47,720 --> 00:05:49,759 Speaker 8: You know what I'm saying with it? Lass Wood and 125 00:05:49,959 --> 00:05:52,160 Ogi the Australian did it. 126 00:05:52,199 --> 00:05:53,680 Speaker 5: That's okay. 127 00:05:54,439 --> 00:05:57,279 Speaker 4: And then Bobby, how did you get involved in criminal Minds? 128 00:05:57,439 --> 00:05:58,439 Speaker 5: I parallel these guys. 129 00:05:58,480 --> 00:06:01,040 Speaker 10: So I went to Chronicles on nineteen eighty and went 130 00:06:01,079 --> 00:06:03,199 to New York as well, just like they did. But 131 00:06:03,279 --> 00:06:06,319 I worked in mafia and then gangs and then Underwater. 132 00:06:06,759 --> 00:06:10,279 I retired in twenty fourteen when in eighty seven came out. 133 00:06:10,319 --> 00:06:13,600 In twenty fourteen, moved to Brazil with my wife, who 134 00:06:13,680 --> 00:06:16,079 was the executive producer of the twenty sixteen Summer Olympics. 135 00:06:16,120 --> 00:06:17,839 There in Brazil, so we were living there while she 136 00:06:17,920 --> 00:06:20,959 was producing the Olympics, and I saw an email on 137 00:06:21,000 --> 00:06:24,120 a retired agent's network chain thing that they were looking 138 00:06:24,160 --> 00:06:27,199 for a technical advisor on a news series. 139 00:06:28,000 --> 00:06:29,560 Speaker 5: I knew we were going to be moving. 140 00:06:29,360 --> 00:06:31,480 Speaker 10: Back to LA eventually, so my wife and I talked 141 00:06:31,480 --> 00:06:33,120 about it, and so I put an email in to 142 00:06:33,439 --> 00:06:35,720 the people that were looking, and that was Jim and 143 00:06:35,759 --> 00:06:38,079 his brother Tim clement Ay. They were both writers on 144 00:06:38,120 --> 00:06:40,639 Criminal Minds. Tim was on the new show which was 145 00:06:40,959 --> 00:06:44,879 Criminal Minds Beyond Borders, and I was taken. I flew 146 00:06:44,879 --> 00:06:47,680 back to LA and I started working there immediately. In fact, 147 00:06:47,800 --> 00:06:51,319 I flew to LA, landed and drove to the set 148 00:06:51,399 --> 00:06:51,720 which was. 149 00:06:51,839 --> 00:06:53,480 Speaker 7: I didn't know that, say yeah. 150 00:06:53,279 --> 00:06:56,120 Speaker 10: I didn't meet Tim until I was already working three 151 00:06:56,199 --> 00:06:59,079 or four days on set, and so I landed a 152 00:06:59,160 --> 00:07:01,560 La extual write this Pedro where they were filming a 153 00:07:01,600 --> 00:07:04,120 scene and Gary Snice was our lead and he was 154 00:07:04,199 --> 00:07:06,439 running down this dock in San Pedro and jumping on 155 00:07:06,480 --> 00:07:08,040 a boat and tackling a guy. So I was like 156 00:07:08,240 --> 00:07:11,399 thrown right into the mix that the stunt coordinator I'm 157 00:07:11,399 --> 00:07:13,279 still good friends with called me over and said, okay, 158 00:07:13,360 --> 00:07:15,959 you're the guy. So tell Gary, show Gary, how he 159 00:07:15,959 --> 00:07:17,920 should have his gun, how he should be chasing the 160 00:07:17,920 --> 00:07:19,920 guy should be allstone he jumps, and how. 161 00:07:19,800 --> 00:07:20,639 Speaker 5: All this has happened. 162 00:07:20,680 --> 00:07:24,639 Speaker 10: And so I was immediately involved with an Academy nominated 163 00:07:24,680 --> 00:07:27,319 actor and doing this kind of work. And so I 164 00:07:27,480 --> 00:07:30,160 did that for two years, and I eventually, of course 165 00:07:30,199 --> 00:07:32,480 met Tim and Jim, and I did that for two years. 166 00:07:32,519 --> 00:07:35,279 That's how long the show was on two seasons. It 167 00:07:35,439 --> 00:07:38,319 was the second actual spinoff of See because a few 168 00:07:38,399 --> 00:07:42,399 years prior there was a cyber spin off of Mines 169 00:07:42,800 --> 00:07:44,519 with I can see his face Jim, who was the 170 00:07:44,600 --> 00:07:45,399 actor at the lead. 171 00:07:47,800 --> 00:07:51,000 Speaker 7: Yes, it was Criminal Minds Suspect Behavior, which was. 172 00:07:50,879 --> 00:07:52,759 Speaker 5: A cyber I believe, a cyber thing. 173 00:07:52,680 --> 00:07:55,319 Speaker 7: Right, It was a hybrid kind of thing. Yeah, yeah. 174 00:07:55,360 --> 00:07:58,360 Speaker 10: So ours was an international show, so it was basically 175 00:07:58,399 --> 00:08:01,480 Profilers going overseas every so the team would just have 176 00:08:01,560 --> 00:08:03,759 a bigger jeck because we took all cars into the gym. 177 00:08:05,319 --> 00:08:08,040 Speaker 5: Heard it gona need a bigger jet, and that's what 178 00:08:08,079 --> 00:08:08,399 we did. 179 00:08:08,639 --> 00:08:12,480 Speaker 10: But so after that series ended, Jim very generously took 180 00:08:12,519 --> 00:08:15,279 me back over to what we call the mothership and 181 00:08:15,480 --> 00:08:18,639 went back to work Criminal Minds I believe season thirteen, 182 00:08:19,079 --> 00:08:20,879 and so I was in the writer's room with Jim 183 00:08:21,000 --> 00:08:23,920 learning what writers do in the room and what happens 184 00:08:23,920 --> 00:08:26,600 in the room, and it's always basically consulting on stories 185 00:08:26,800 --> 00:08:30,480 and things like that. And then in season fourteen, Jim 186 00:08:30,600 --> 00:08:33,559 got me to the point where he basically got approval 187 00:08:33,559 --> 00:08:35,480 for from the showrunner for me to call write an episode, 188 00:08:35,480 --> 00:08:37,279 and Jim and I co wrote an episode, and that's 189 00:08:37,320 --> 00:08:38,960 how I got into the writers Guild. And then we 190 00:08:39,000 --> 00:08:41,120 wrote on a Nicole Kidman series after that. Jim and 191 00:08:41,159 --> 00:08:44,200 I together on a streaming series after that. Yeah, and 192 00:08:44,240 --> 00:08:46,080 that's what I do. And I have actually the script 193 00:08:46,159 --> 00:08:49,080 right here. You can see it signed by all of 194 00:08:49,159 --> 00:08:49,720 the casts. 195 00:08:50,159 --> 00:08:50,639 Speaker 7: Very cool. 196 00:08:50,759 --> 00:08:51,360 Speaker 6: Oh my god. 197 00:08:51,759 --> 00:08:54,159 Speaker 10: Yeah, so all the casts signed it and wrote some things, 198 00:08:54,200 --> 00:08:57,240 and the director signed it and Erica Messer signed it. 199 00:08:57,360 --> 00:08:59,480 So yeah, so it was it was that's the I 200 00:08:59,600 --> 00:09:02,960 owe everything to Jim and Tim. And we're still pitching shows. 201 00:09:02,960 --> 00:09:05,360 We pitched a show last week. We're still out here 202 00:09:05,440 --> 00:09:06,200 pitching FBI. 203 00:09:06,399 --> 00:09:09,279 Speaker 6: Hopefully you'll be learning a lot more about Bobby's career 204 00:09:09,279 --> 00:09:09,480 and that. 205 00:09:10,159 --> 00:09:13,320 Speaker 5: Yeah that show goes out. Yeah yeah, yeah, that's my story. 206 00:09:13,919 --> 00:09:14,759 Speaker 7: A quick question. 207 00:09:15,039 --> 00:09:18,519 Speaker 2: We know that fits and Jim know each other from 208 00:09:18,759 --> 00:09:22,919 their FBI careers. Do you not meet the Clementy brothers, 209 00:09:23,000 --> 00:09:26,639 Jim and Tim until you joined Criminal Minds? 210 00:09:27,120 --> 00:09:28,360 Speaker 5: Yes? Until I joined? 211 00:09:28,679 --> 00:09:32,759 Speaker 7: Yes, yeah, yeah, that was we Actually we crossed path but. 212 00:09:33,360 --> 00:09:35,720 Speaker 10: Across paths, like we were all three of us here. 213 00:09:36,000 --> 00:09:37,840 We're in the same office. But New York is such 214 00:09:37,879 --> 00:09:38,879 a big office. 215 00:09:39,039 --> 00:09:40,039 Speaker 7: It's the biggest. 216 00:09:39,679 --> 00:09:42,840 Speaker 5: Office in the FBI, exponentially bigger than almost. 217 00:09:42,559 --> 00:09:44,519 Speaker 7: What months were you in the FBI academy. 218 00:09:45,480 --> 00:09:49,480 Speaker 10: I started in September of eighty seven. I graduated in 219 00:09:49,519 --> 00:09:50,799 December of eighty seven. 220 00:09:50,840 --> 00:09:53,559 Speaker 7: I know, so we overlapped. We started in November of 221 00:09:53,799 --> 00:09:54,480 eighty seven. 222 00:09:54,759 --> 00:09:56,200 Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, so we were there for my mom. 223 00:09:56,360 --> 00:09:58,799 Speaker 7: Yeah, we were. We overlapped there. 224 00:09:58,879 --> 00:10:01,320 Speaker 6: We overlapped in New York office, and we overlapped on 225 00:10:01,399 --> 00:10:02,279 Criminal Minds. 226 00:10:02,360 --> 00:10:04,279 Speaker 5: Yeah. And I went straight to work in BQ. 227 00:10:04,879 --> 00:10:08,440 Speaker 10: So I went, like I when I finished Quantico in December, 228 00:10:08,480 --> 00:10:10,200 I got up to the week before Christmas and reported 229 00:10:10,200 --> 00:10:12,879 for duty in New York at the BQ and what 230 00:10:12,919 --> 00:10:14,799 we call MRA because it's a metropolitzer. 231 00:10:14,919 --> 00:10:18,080 Speaker 6: Yeah, and Fitz was headed that way, but luckily we 232 00:10:18,120 --> 00:10:20,960 got them sidetracked on to the Remember they were going 233 00:10:21,000 --> 00:10:23,559 to have you work out of the Brooklyn Queen's ra 234 00:10:24,240 --> 00:10:27,120 That would have added another hour to your two hour commute. 235 00:10:27,679 --> 00:10:28,080 Speaker 5: Yeah. 236 00:10:28,120 --> 00:10:30,679 Speaker 8: We had a retired NYPD guy on Cold Red last 237 00:10:30,720 --> 00:10:32,399 week and I said, I could have been working with 238 00:10:32,440 --> 00:10:35,120 you back in the day if the FBI's original plan 239 00:10:35,240 --> 00:10:37,840 came in. He was a car theft guy. But yeah, 240 00:10:37,879 --> 00:10:40,480 luckily I wound up going next to Jim on on 241 00:10:40,559 --> 00:10:42,919 c nineteen the bank robber squad, and the rest was 242 00:10:43,039 --> 00:10:45,200 history there. Yeah, so it was a very big office 243 00:10:45,240 --> 00:10:48,159 and and Bobby, we probably crossed paths, walked into each other. 244 00:10:49,200 --> 00:10:53,279 The Gus Faracci case, Poe here recovering together, the guy 245 00:10:53,279 --> 00:10:54,519 that killed the DEA agent. 246 00:10:54,799 --> 00:10:57,639 Speaker 7: Did you work on that case, Bobby, Yeah, I was working. 247 00:10:57,480 --> 00:10:59,399 Speaker 5: Organized I was working a little cases at the time. 248 00:10:59,679 --> 00:11:02,879 Speaker 10: So every organized crime squad when Everett Hatcher got killed, 249 00:11:02,919 --> 00:11:06,120 every organized crime squad was directed to work to Gus 250 00:11:06,120 --> 00:11:06,840 Feracci case. 251 00:11:08,120 --> 00:11:10,879 Speaker 7: And it is gust Saracci the agent that was killed. 252 00:11:11,320 --> 00:11:14,240 Speaker 10: Ever Hatcher was the DA agent. Everett Hatcher was killed 253 00:11:14,240 --> 00:11:15,720 by Gus Faracci. 254 00:11:15,639 --> 00:11:18,559 Speaker 6: And I was on duty that night, and so I 255 00:11:18,600 --> 00:11:21,559 got the call that's I was the first stagent to 256 00:11:21,600 --> 00:11:24,799 respond there. And yeah, and the crime scene. 257 00:11:25,039 --> 00:11:25,279 Speaker 7: It was. 258 00:11:25,879 --> 00:11:29,039 Speaker 8: It was a trup Thatt Island, New York, a quiet 259 00:11:29,039 --> 00:11:31,519 part of Staten Island. These things unusually happen out there, 260 00:11:31,559 --> 00:11:33,919 but we were all there. First time I ever used 261 00:11:33,919 --> 00:11:35,440 a cell phone was on that case. 262 00:11:37,080 --> 00:11:38,919 Speaker 7: Wow, it was still. 263 00:11:38,720 --> 00:11:42,720 Speaker 8: Booked to the dashboard, this big wire. Fitzcaw twenty six pa. 264 00:11:42,759 --> 00:11:45,480 I didn't get this record check run okay, And that 265 00:11:45,559 --> 00:11:46,919 was my first use of a cell phone. 266 00:11:47,039 --> 00:11:49,600 Speaker 6: You all right, can we since we're on this subject, 267 00:11:49,600 --> 00:11:52,600 do you remember we sat surveillance that night on the 268 00:11:52,639 --> 00:11:57,440 grandmother of Gus Faratti, the suspect in the case. Fitz 269 00:11:57,440 --> 00:11:59,960 and I were sitting around the corner in a car 270 00:12:00,200 --> 00:12:02,559 all night waiting to get a search warrant for her 271 00:12:02,600 --> 00:12:05,320 house because we thought he might be hiding there. And 272 00:12:05,440 --> 00:12:07,480 as the sun came up, it looked like one of 273 00:12:07,480 --> 00:12:09,600 the neighbors was looking out the window at us. 274 00:12:09,799 --> 00:12:10,399 Speaker 7: Remember that. 275 00:12:10,799 --> 00:12:15,600 Speaker 6: And it was actually a poster from I think it 276 00:12:15,679 --> 00:12:19,600 was Ken ken Wall from the show Wise Guys, And 277 00:12:19,639 --> 00:12:23,279 they thought it was funny having this undercover FBI agent 278 00:12:23,399 --> 00:12:28,720 in the window looking over a mob guy's house. So anyway, 279 00:12:28,799 --> 00:12:31,200 that was funny when that when we realized who it was, 280 00:12:31,960 --> 00:12:33,360 it was one of one of the. 281 00:12:33,279 --> 00:12:35,519 Speaker 7: Fun side notes of being in the FBI. 282 00:12:35,600 --> 00:12:38,519 Speaker 8: Surprise, I've never made it into a Criminal Minds episode next. 283 00:12:38,279 --> 00:12:42,000 Speaker 6: Time, Yeah, absolutely, Hopefully we'll have season twenty and I'll 284 00:12:42,000 --> 00:12:42,879 make sure it's in there. 285 00:12:43,879 --> 00:12:46,320 Speaker 4: Jim Clementy, I know that you said that Mandy Patinkink 286 00:12:46,360 --> 00:12:49,559 based whose character off of you and fits. I know 287 00:12:49,639 --> 00:12:53,480 that you had a hand in writing a character Alex Blake, 288 00:12:53,639 --> 00:12:57,279 who was a forensic linguist. Do you feel like, is 289 00:12:57,320 --> 00:13:00,480 there a Criminal Minds character in particular who you really 290 00:13:00,639 --> 00:13:05,759 strongly identify with? If you had to swap places with 291 00:13:05,799 --> 00:13:07,360 a Criminal Minds character for the day, who would you 292 00:13:07,360 --> 00:13:07,799 swap with? 293 00:13:08,440 --> 00:13:10,960 Speaker 8: Yeah, and I thought about that before, and I'm very 294 00:13:11,000 --> 00:13:14,559 secure in my masculinity. However, I think the Alex Blait 295 00:13:14,720 --> 00:13:16,480 character would be the one. 296 00:13:16,559 --> 00:13:20,320 Speaker 7: Well, which is the name, Yeah, that's true forensic linguist. 297 00:13:20,639 --> 00:13:23,759 Speaker 8: She taught at Georgetown University, where I got my second master's, 298 00:13:23,879 --> 00:13:26,600 and of course that's where my future wife taught, So yeah, 299 00:13:26,679 --> 00:13:29,600 she was really based on me, having worked the Unibomb 300 00:13:29,639 --> 00:13:32,759 case as a rookie. I wasn't technically a rookie on Unibomb, 301 00:13:33,000 --> 00:13:35,480 but that's how our character was written, and they had 302 00:13:35,519 --> 00:13:38,159 met Natalie. My then fiance would come in to a 303 00:13:38,200 --> 00:13:40,399 studio in the writer's room a few times in LA 304 00:13:40,799 --> 00:13:42,799 and that was actually Glendale, right, What was it? Where 305 00:13:42,840 --> 00:13:43,399 was that office? 306 00:13:43,720 --> 00:13:43,879 Speaker 9: Yeah? 307 00:13:43,919 --> 00:13:44,960 Speaker 7: It was Glendale, ye. 308 00:13:45,519 --> 00:13:48,000 Speaker 8: Anyway, and they liked her, and I said, here's the 309 00:13:48,080 --> 00:13:50,639 idea you want to give her. They already hired Gene tripleharn. 310 00:13:51,240 --> 00:13:53,279 They just didn't know what they had her name picked out. 311 00:13:53,320 --> 00:13:55,720 I think they just didn't know what kind of a background. Said, 312 00:13:55,720 --> 00:13:59,399 do you guys know me forensic linguists worked? You met 313 00:13:59,480 --> 00:14:01,360 my professor fiance. 314 00:14:02,159 --> 00:14:02,600 Speaker 5: That's it. 315 00:14:02,759 --> 00:14:05,960 Speaker 8: She's a professor at Georgetown and she's also an FBI profiler. 316 00:14:06,600 --> 00:14:08,960 Said why do I tell Natalie this? Because that doesn't 317 00:14:08,960 --> 00:14:11,600 happen in real life. And there's one famous scene it 318 00:14:11,600 --> 00:14:15,039 probably happened a few times where Alex doctor Blake is 319 00:14:15,080 --> 00:14:18,399 teaching her course in socio linguistics and her cell phone 320 00:14:18,440 --> 00:14:21,000 goes off. She answered, it looks at the teaching assistant, 321 00:14:21,159 --> 00:14:23,080 you take over, I'm out of here, and just walks 322 00:14:23,080 --> 00:14:24,879 out on her tat Now, I said, oh my god, 323 00:14:24,919 --> 00:14:29,440 I'd give anything for a call like that. It was 324 00:14:29,480 --> 00:14:32,480 definitely like imitating art there. But she I think at 325 00:14:32,559 --> 00:14:34,360 least one time I gave her a call and got 326 00:14:34,360 --> 00:14:36,279 her out of class early. So yeah, that was my 327 00:14:36,399 --> 00:14:39,440 character I helped create, and I'm very proud of that. 328 00:14:39,559 --> 00:14:41,720 I think Jean did a great job. And the two 329 00:14:41,840 --> 00:14:45,799 hundredth episode party was in Las Vegas. Jim, what year 330 00:14:45,879 --> 00:14:46,000 was that? 331 00:14:46,240 --> 00:14:49,240 Speaker 7: Twenty thirteen? Maybe jumping around there. 332 00:14:49,320 --> 00:14:51,799 Speaker 8: Yeah, and if you introduced me, I had not met 333 00:14:51,879 --> 00:14:52,679 Jean triple Horn. 334 00:14:53,000 --> 00:14:54,480 Speaker 5: So Natalie and I walk over. 335 00:14:54,399 --> 00:14:57,039 Speaker 8: And bebia Jean and her husband was there. This is 336 00:14:57,080 --> 00:14:57,960 a Natalie shilling. 337 00:14:58,039 --> 00:14:58,799 Speaker 7: Jim Fitzgerald. 338 00:14:59,039 --> 00:15:01,600 Speaker 8: They created your character and you were very nice how 339 00:15:01,639 --> 00:15:03,840 you put it, and Jeene without missing a beat, just 340 00:15:03,840 --> 00:15:04,279 looks at it. 341 00:15:04,360 --> 00:15:06,000 Speaker 5: He goes, Hi, Mom, Hi Dad. 342 00:15:09,879 --> 00:15:10,440 Speaker 8: So that's my. 343 00:15:10,519 --> 00:15:13,000 Speaker 7: Character, Jim Cliny, how about you? 344 00:15:13,200 --> 00:15:15,240 Speaker 4: Do you feel like you're a Jason Gideon or have 345 00:15:15,399 --> 00:15:17,159 you David Rossie Spencer Reid. 346 00:15:17,759 --> 00:15:21,320 Speaker 6: See, I don't know if there's any real Spencer Reid. 347 00:15:21,360 --> 00:15:24,240 He's just too brilliant and goofy but and go looking. 348 00:15:24,480 --> 00:15:27,440 But so yeah, Mandy's character was first based on me. 349 00:15:27,519 --> 00:15:30,799 When Mandy left after Senior season two, we bought in Joe, 350 00:15:30,840 --> 00:15:33,440 so we kind of actually at that point we split 351 00:15:33,519 --> 00:15:39,039 my character between Joe Montagna and Shamar Moore, and it 352 00:15:39,159 --> 00:15:43,279 was Yeah, it was great because I actually really respect 353 00:15:43,320 --> 00:15:46,679 Schamar for playing the role that he played in Profile 354 00:15:46,679 --> 00:15:50,279 and Profile the Foundation and Restoration, which is a story 355 00:15:50,320 --> 00:15:52,960 of how I became an FBI agent and went after 356 00:15:53,000 --> 00:15:54,559 the guy who molested me. 357 00:15:55,120 --> 00:15:56,559 Speaker 7: It took a lot of guts. 358 00:15:56,200 --> 00:15:58,159 Speaker 6: For Schmar to do that, and I know that when 359 00:15:58,159 --> 00:16:00,879 he left the show, when he went on to star 360 00:16:01,080 --> 00:16:04,840 in The Swat in his own series, he said that, listen, 361 00:16:05,279 --> 00:16:09,200 I've been doing this for over twenty years, and the 362 00:16:09,240 --> 00:16:12,679 best episodes of TV I've ever done, the best acting 363 00:16:12,720 --> 00:16:15,320 I've ever done, has been those three episodes, and he 364 00:16:15,480 --> 00:16:16,679 really thanked me for it. 365 00:16:16,759 --> 00:16:18,000 Speaker 7: So that was really cool. 366 00:16:18,360 --> 00:16:23,240 Speaker 6: But of course, Joe being the first Italian American FBI profiler, 367 00:16:23,360 --> 00:16:26,080 which I believe I was, it was great because Joe 368 00:16:26,120 --> 00:16:28,840 is a prince of a man, and everybody to a 369 00:16:28,879 --> 00:16:31,679 person loves him on the set and every set he 370 00:16:31,720 --> 00:16:34,120 walks on too. He's such a good man and such 371 00:16:34,120 --> 00:16:36,200 a great guy, and such a great actor, and he's 372 00:16:36,399 --> 00:16:36,919 a man. 373 00:16:36,960 --> 00:16:38,360 Speaker 7: He's done so many amazing things. 374 00:16:38,519 --> 00:16:42,200 Speaker 6: I guess it's a split between those three actors in 375 00:16:42,320 --> 00:16:45,039 terms of who I can relate to the most like 376 00:16:45,120 --> 00:16:47,720 Jim Fitz says, the female actors that have been on 377 00:16:47,759 --> 00:16:53,080 the show, from aj Cook to Paget Brewster, every single 378 00:16:53,279 --> 00:16:55,440 one of them has been amazing. 379 00:16:56,840 --> 00:16:58,840 Speaker 7: And who's yours look? 380 00:16:58,879 --> 00:17:00,480 Speaker 10: And this is one of This is a that I 381 00:17:00,559 --> 00:17:02,480 always have to say right when I'm on the news 382 00:17:02,840 --> 00:17:05,519 because I'm associated with Kerminlines to a degree and with 383 00:17:05,559 --> 00:17:07,039 these guys to a degree, and so I always have 384 00:17:07,079 --> 00:17:09,359 to remind you I was not a profiler, because I 385 00:17:09,400 --> 00:17:11,440 feel there's a lot of people out there now in 386 00:17:11,480 --> 00:17:15,240 the profiling space who are claiming credentials that are not legitimate. 387 00:17:15,480 --> 00:17:17,000 Speaker 5: Right, these guys laugh because they know it. 388 00:17:17,039 --> 00:17:19,480 Speaker 10: And literally I am on either text or a call 389 00:17:19,519 --> 00:17:22,359 with either of these two guys literally daily, right, We're 390 00:17:22,400 --> 00:17:25,200 parts of text change that we were constantly texting each other, 391 00:17:25,279 --> 00:17:27,519 know each other, and they know because I'll ping them. 392 00:17:27,759 --> 00:17:30,920 If I get called to do a story that's more profiling, 393 00:17:31,200 --> 00:17:33,160 I'll tell them to go to profile and that they 394 00:17:33,200 --> 00:17:35,359 really want me on the story because only part of 395 00:17:35,400 --> 00:17:38,400 it is profiling. I will ask these guys what their 396 00:17:38,440 --> 00:17:40,960 opinion is on that story that I cover on the 397 00:17:41,000 --> 00:17:42,720 news or whatever, and then I will make sure that 398 00:17:42,799 --> 00:17:44,920 I say on there that I am not a profile, 399 00:17:45,000 --> 00:17:48,559 because I think it's very important that people know to 400 00:17:48,599 --> 00:17:51,480 call yourself a pro because there are so many people nowadays. 401 00:17:51,880 --> 00:17:53,759 And these guys get text from me saying hey, with 402 00:17:53,880 --> 00:17:56,200 so and so a profiler because they call themselves a 403 00:17:56,200 --> 00:17:58,160 profile and I know they were in the FBI, and 404 00:17:58,160 --> 00:18:02,240 they'll be like, no, they were actually an VAVC coordinators, 405 00:18:02,279 --> 00:18:06,200 not a profiler, and so I'm like, so you have 406 00:18:06,279 --> 00:18:08,359 to be really careful because there are so many people. 407 00:18:08,720 --> 00:18:10,599 So I was never a profile. I did not go 408 00:18:10,680 --> 00:18:13,160 through the I don't have the experience the education of that. 409 00:18:13,200 --> 00:18:16,319 And it's very because when I call somebody an up profile, 410 00:18:17,480 --> 00:18:20,079 that's a proud thing. There's not a lot of them. 411 00:18:20,319 --> 00:18:23,440 And I just feel really horrible if I ever forget 412 00:18:23,519 --> 00:18:26,599 and I start talking about profiling and I'm saying something 413 00:18:26,599 --> 00:18:28,279 that I learned from these two guys earlier in the 414 00:18:28,359 --> 00:18:30,319 day because I thinking them about the story, and I 415 00:18:30,359 --> 00:18:32,440 always try to make sure that I know that, make 416 00:18:32,519 --> 00:18:34,799 sure people know that I was never a profiler. But 417 00:18:34,880 --> 00:18:38,160 I do know plenty of them, and really good ones obviously. 418 00:18:38,400 --> 00:18:41,519 Speaker 7: But you were an amazing investigator and we all have profile. Yeah, yeah, 419 00:18:42,160 --> 00:18:43,480 absolutely amazing investment. 420 00:18:43,680 --> 00:18:45,680 Speaker 10: So yeah, so I don't know. Like I said, I 421 00:18:45,759 --> 00:18:49,000 broke in with Beyond Boarders. So Gary and are still friends. 422 00:18:49,000 --> 00:18:51,160 Gary Sones and I are still friends. We spoke yesterday. 423 00:18:51,559 --> 00:18:53,720 And Daniel is a good friend of Minedaniel Henney who 424 00:18:53,720 --> 00:18:56,079 then went on to the Bigger Show and now he's 425 00:18:56,119 --> 00:18:59,519 on that Wheel of Time on Netflix. He's involved in 426 00:18:59,680 --> 00:19:02,200 it's when those Game of Thrones type big things, and 427 00:19:02,319 --> 00:19:03,160 him and I still. 428 00:19:02,960 --> 00:19:04,119 Speaker 5: Talk and stuff. And Adam. 429 00:19:04,359 --> 00:19:06,000 Speaker 10: I got along really well with Adam when I went 430 00:19:06,000 --> 00:19:09,319 over to the Mothership. But I don't see myself in 431 00:19:09,400 --> 00:19:12,000 any of these profiles because it's just not something I did. 432 00:19:12,039 --> 00:19:15,160 I know the stories, I know the investigations and have 433 00:19:15,279 --> 00:19:17,400 because one things crim My Minds did it combined the 434 00:19:17,440 --> 00:19:20,359 profile and with the investigation, and so that's where I 435 00:19:20,400 --> 00:19:23,039 would come in and help with the investigated part of it, 436 00:19:23,240 --> 00:19:25,839 because they always go and either hook up with a 437 00:19:25,839 --> 00:19:28,599 local cop and where of the going or an agent 438 00:19:28,680 --> 00:19:30,759 in that field office. And so that's the kind of 439 00:19:30,839 --> 00:19:32,880 role that I would be playing. Episode that Jim and 440 00:19:32,920 --> 00:19:35,720 I wrote together, it would be Tony Dennison, his character 441 00:19:35,799 --> 00:19:37,720 that kind of was out there and that was he 442 00:19:37,759 --> 00:19:40,440 actually was watch him season three. He was the sergeant, 443 00:19:40,680 --> 00:19:43,319 and yes, fourteen we went back and he was now 444 00:19:43,359 --> 00:19:46,960 the Captain of the Chief, So same actor twelve years apart, 445 00:19:46,960 --> 00:19:48,920 playing the same character in two different episodes. 446 00:19:49,240 --> 00:19:51,680 Speaker 6: But yeah, and that was actually something I tried to do, 447 00:19:51,839 --> 00:19:54,759 was bring back people who were in the early episodes. 448 00:19:54,880 --> 00:19:56,319 Speaker 7: And Molly Culver is. 449 00:19:56,319 --> 00:19:58,200 Speaker 6: One that I brought back a couple of times, and 450 00:19:58,400 --> 00:19:59,839 Brandon Rush was another. 451 00:20:00,319 --> 00:20:00,720 Speaker 5: Oh yeah. 452 00:20:00,839 --> 00:20:03,960 Speaker 6: And what was great about being a writer is that 453 00:20:04,200 --> 00:20:06,519 you had a lot of freedom in terms of what 454 00:20:06,920 --> 00:20:08,640 you know, what you did, and who you hired and 455 00:20:08,680 --> 00:20:11,720 so forth. And even though the casting process is it's 456 00:20:11,720 --> 00:20:15,839 a very intricate and detailed and difficult process, a lot 457 00:20:15,880 --> 00:20:18,559 of times it can be very i don't know, brutal 458 00:20:18,640 --> 00:20:21,400 to the actors. And I tried as much as I 459 00:20:21,400 --> 00:20:24,119 could to make it a little easier because I felt 460 00:20:24,240 --> 00:20:28,480 we'd get amazing performances from people and auditions they either 461 00:20:28,599 --> 00:20:30,839 looked too much like a person that we already had, 462 00:20:30,960 --> 00:20:36,160 or they were more stage performance versus TV performance, or 463 00:20:36,559 --> 00:20:39,160 things like that, or sometimes it's just it was like, 464 00:20:39,640 --> 00:20:42,559 we got five or six people that will do great 465 00:20:42,599 --> 00:20:44,160 in this part, we just have. 466 00:20:44,200 --> 00:20:45,559 Speaker 7: To it's a random pick. 467 00:20:45,720 --> 00:20:48,640 Speaker 6: We'll just take this one and I always want to 468 00:20:48,680 --> 00:20:51,240 make sure that every time somebody came in that room, 469 00:20:51,440 --> 00:20:53,720 I would say you did a great job, thank you 470 00:20:53,759 --> 00:20:55,720 so much for coming, because it's such a hard thing 471 00:20:55,759 --> 00:20:56,039 to do. 472 00:20:56,200 --> 00:20:59,799 Speaker 2: Oh man, you're listening to mind Over Murder. Will be 473 00:21:00,279 --> 00:21:06,319 back after this word from our sponsors. We're back here 474 00:21:06,359 --> 00:21:07,480 at mind Over Murder. 475 00:21:08,160 --> 00:21:09,119 Speaker 5: Yeah, I could attest that. 476 00:21:09,160 --> 00:21:11,480 Speaker 10: I remember we were casting for our episode and I'm 477 00:21:11,519 --> 00:21:14,039 walking over to the trailer and there's like a little 478 00:21:14,039 --> 00:21:15,759 couple of steps up to the trail. There's a line 479 00:21:15,799 --> 00:21:18,119 of actors coming in one at a time, and like 480 00:21:18,160 --> 00:21:20,000 I've got the script in my hand, and so they 481 00:21:20,039 --> 00:21:21,319 know like I'm one of the people. They don't know 482 00:21:21,319 --> 00:21:23,119 who I am yet, but so I go in and 483 00:21:23,119 --> 00:21:25,240 take my seat with Jim Or and you can see 484 00:21:25,279 --> 00:21:27,519 how nervous they all are. This is this is season 485 00:21:28,240 --> 00:21:31,839 season fourteen, a hit show on primetime on CBS. This 486 00:21:31,880 --> 00:21:34,200 would be a big break for any of these day 487 00:21:34,200 --> 00:21:36,440 play actors, that would you know. And so they're all 488 00:21:36,480 --> 00:21:38,880 they've got their side, they're studying their lines in the 489 00:21:38,920 --> 00:21:41,200 line and you can see their faces are like so 490 00:21:41,400 --> 00:21:44,440 nervous and this is like a big deal. I didn't 491 00:21:44,480 --> 00:21:46,079 feel that way because these are people I work with 492 00:21:46,119 --> 00:21:49,279 every day, Jim and Erica and Lisa, the casting folks 493 00:21:49,359 --> 00:21:50,799 and stuff. And so I go into the trail and 494 00:21:50,799 --> 00:21:52,359 I take a seat and I'm like, oh, this is fun. 495 00:21:52,559 --> 00:21:54,640 But for them, I didn't get that feeling until I 496 00:21:54,680 --> 00:21:57,319 actually walked past them on that line to feel the 497 00:21:57,400 --> 00:21:59,680 nerves that they were feeling. And this is this is 498 00:21:59,799 --> 00:22:01,759 much bigger to them than it was to me, Like 499 00:22:01,799 --> 00:22:04,359 this was like everything to them. This is what they've 500 00:22:04,400 --> 00:22:07,359 been hoping for. Their agent got them. They're hoping to 501 00:22:07,359 --> 00:22:09,319 get in there and kill it. And then, like Jim said, 502 00:22:09,440 --> 00:22:11,119 it's a tough thing to do because it's not like 503 00:22:11,160 --> 00:22:13,279 you've got a costume on or anything. You just handed 504 00:22:13,319 --> 00:22:15,519 a couple of lines and you're not even handed the 505 00:22:15,519 --> 00:22:17,079 whole script, and you've got to stand up in this 506 00:22:17,119 --> 00:22:18,960 trailer with no accouch from all. 507 00:22:18,960 --> 00:22:20,720 Speaker 5: No, no, nothing, just give the line. 508 00:22:20,839 --> 00:22:23,559 Speaker 10: And it was a lot more difficult than I ever 509 00:22:23,680 --> 00:22:25,759 envisioned it until I saw it live like. 510 00:22:25,759 --> 00:22:27,400 Speaker 5: That, And I did feel for them. 511 00:22:27,400 --> 00:22:29,680 Speaker 10: I know Jim really fell because I know like he 512 00:22:29,880 --> 00:22:31,440 when they left and we would all talk about it, 513 00:22:31,480 --> 00:22:33,799 you could say Jim was really invested in it. And 514 00:22:34,000 --> 00:22:35,880 I felt that way too, because I was like, man, 515 00:22:35,920 --> 00:22:38,119 this is this is important stuff for these people. This 516 00:22:38,160 --> 00:22:40,079 could be like a makeup This could be the one 517 00:22:40,359 --> 00:22:42,240 that the person says, if I don't get this role, 518 00:22:42,240 --> 00:22:43,759 I'm quitting Hollywood, going back home to. 519 00:22:43,799 --> 00:22:46,640 Speaker 5: Iowa or whatever. This could be that role for somebody 520 00:22:46,640 --> 00:22:47,400 in that line. 521 00:22:48,160 --> 00:22:50,640 Speaker 6: Brandon Rush was a perfect example. He's a guy who 522 00:22:51,000 --> 00:22:53,640 never got a line in a show, and we gave 523 00:22:53,720 --> 00:22:54,599 him his first line. 524 00:22:55,039 --> 00:22:56,160 Speaker 7: He appreciated. 525 00:22:56,359 --> 00:22:58,799 Speaker 6: On the day we were shooting, he had the flu, 526 00:22:59,240 --> 00:23:02,039 he getting barely he talked, but he powered his way 527 00:23:02,079 --> 00:23:05,839 through it. After that, he's done something like seventy seven 528 00:23:05,960 --> 00:23:09,519 other shows. 529 00:23:09,599 --> 00:23:12,920 Speaker 5: Yeah, he's a recurring guy on Blue Bloods. Yeah, Swat 530 00:23:13,000 --> 00:23:13,440 he was on. 531 00:23:13,559 --> 00:23:16,279 Speaker 6: Yeah, he was on so many crime shows because of that, 532 00:23:16,359 --> 00:23:18,480 And that's why it was so important. And we try 533 00:23:18,480 --> 00:23:20,759 to give as many people as we could chances to 534 00:23:20,799 --> 00:23:23,519 do that because there's so many good actors out there 535 00:23:23,559 --> 00:23:26,839 and there's so few parts, and especially recently, there's so 536 00:23:26,920 --> 00:23:30,240 many fewer parts. But what the fact is that the 537 00:23:30,359 --> 00:23:32,960 quality of acting that we got and that show was 538 00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:33,920 really amazing. 539 00:23:34,720 --> 00:23:37,960 Speaker 2: Bobby, you referenced something, and for the benefit of our listeners, 540 00:23:38,119 --> 00:23:41,039 if you can explain what a side is you mentioned 541 00:23:41,119 --> 00:23:42,319 their side sides. 542 00:23:42,720 --> 00:23:46,599 Speaker 10: Sides are like tiny little pages of a script, so 543 00:23:46,599 --> 00:23:48,680 they'll be like for us as writers when we go 544 00:23:48,799 --> 00:23:52,160 on set. The sides are all the dialogues, the pages 545 00:23:52,160 --> 00:23:53,680 of the script that are going to be done that day, 546 00:23:53,880 --> 00:23:55,359 so you don't have to have the whole script in 547 00:23:55,400 --> 00:23:58,119 your hand. You have maybe seven eight nine pages that 548 00:23:58,240 --> 00:24:00,519 are going to be shot that day, and the side 549 00:24:00,519 --> 00:24:02,519 the smaller version of that, the sides that the actors 550 00:24:02,559 --> 00:24:04,599 would get with just and see this is eight and 551 00:24:04,599 --> 00:24:06,759 a half by eleven, which is your regular script. The 552 00:24:06,799 --> 00:24:09,200 sides are like much smaller. They're like a large index 553 00:24:09,240 --> 00:24:11,759 card size of a page, and it just has the 554 00:24:11,759 --> 00:24:14,960 lines that they have to read for their particular audition. 555 00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:18,680 Sides are generally everybody on set has the sides for 556 00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:20,640 that day and you throw them away and the next 557 00:24:20,680 --> 00:24:22,519 day you get the new sides, which are the six 558 00:24:22,599 --> 00:24:24,720 seven eight pages of the script that are going to 559 00:24:24,759 --> 00:24:25,519 be shot that day. 560 00:24:25,839 --> 00:24:28,759 Speaker 6: Yeah, because scripts are not shot in the order of 561 00:24:28,960 --> 00:24:32,839 the script. They're shot in the order of when the 562 00:24:32,880 --> 00:24:36,720 actors are available, when the site that we are going 563 00:24:36,759 --> 00:24:40,920 to shoot at is available, when the director feels that 564 00:24:41,039 --> 00:24:43,720 the lighting would be best for this kind of scene. 565 00:24:44,240 --> 00:24:47,480 There's all sorts of different things that go into that calculation, 566 00:24:48,039 --> 00:24:51,799 and sometimes it's completely out of your control where you're 567 00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:54,720 trying to shoot at this jail and oh no, it's 568 00:24:54,759 --> 00:24:57,559 not available till the second to the last day of shooting. 569 00:24:58,000 --> 00:25:00,480 You really wanted to shoot that scene early because then 570 00:25:00,799 --> 00:25:03,400 it puts the actors in the mind of what's going on. 571 00:25:03,519 --> 00:25:06,039 And this is really part of the really difficult work 572 00:25:06,160 --> 00:25:09,559 of being a TV actor. You have to understand that 573 00:25:10,039 --> 00:25:12,599 in this when you shoot this episode, there's going to 574 00:25:12,640 --> 00:25:16,000 be a time when you're frantic trying to save this person, 575 00:25:16,519 --> 00:25:18,759 and that might be the very first thing you do. 576 00:25:18,960 --> 00:25:22,039 And then a day later or three days later, you're 577 00:25:22,079 --> 00:25:24,240 shooting when you first get the case, and you're not 578 00:25:24,279 --> 00:25:26,200 supposed to know anything about it or who the bad 579 00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:26,720 guy was. 580 00:25:26,759 --> 00:25:27,559 Speaker 7: Or anything like that. 581 00:25:27,680 --> 00:25:30,720 Speaker 6: So that's part of acting that behind the scenes, it's 582 00:25:30,720 --> 00:25:32,039 a lot more difficult than you think. 583 00:25:32,279 --> 00:25:35,920 Speaker 10: Yeah, it's almost unique to TV acting, too, because in 584 00:25:35,960 --> 00:25:38,319 a film, you've got an emotional arc of a character 585 00:25:38,400 --> 00:25:40,559 that goes through the whole film, and they're much different 586 00:25:40,640 --> 00:25:42,119 character by the end of the film than there or 587 00:25:42,119 --> 00:25:44,480 at the beginning of the film. You have a similar 588 00:25:44,559 --> 00:25:47,839 arc in an episode of television, that actor has to portray. 589 00:25:48,079 --> 00:25:50,680 And so if there's an emotional arc in that if 590 00:25:50,680 --> 00:25:53,920 they're shooting on day two a scene from the end 591 00:25:53,960 --> 00:25:56,440 of the show, they've got to get themselves in that 592 00:25:56,480 --> 00:25:59,960 emotional space of that particular part of the character's emotion 593 00:26:00,359 --> 00:26:03,519 r on that day, even though they haven't had time 594 00:26:03,559 --> 00:26:06,359 to ramp up to that because we don't choot in sequence, 595 00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:08,559 and so it's a particular challenge. I think a lot 596 00:26:08,559 --> 00:26:11,680 of times for TV actors that maybe sometimes feature actors 597 00:26:11,680 --> 00:26:13,160 don't necessarily face. 598 00:26:13,880 --> 00:26:16,400 Speaker 8: I remember too a guest star. I think he was 599 00:26:16,400 --> 00:26:19,039 in an arc of a few episodes, Tim Curry. I 600 00:26:19,039 --> 00:26:22,559 forget what season that would have been, maybe ten or. 601 00:26:22,079 --> 00:26:25,480 Speaker 7: Twelve, but I was going and I think I was 602 00:26:25,480 --> 00:26:27,319 going maybe. 603 00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:28,319 Speaker 5: A few times this season. 604 00:26:28,359 --> 00:26:30,960 Speaker 8: I've never lived in la but he was very nice 605 00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:32,640 and Natalie and some other people. 606 00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:34,319 Speaker 5: I was giving a little tour of the set. 607 00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:37,559 Speaker 8: They loved them from Rocky Horror Picture Show. And what 608 00:26:37,640 --> 00:26:40,000 Bobby and Jim were saying, these actors have to prepare 609 00:26:40,039 --> 00:26:41,599 themselves this day, have. 610 00:26:41,599 --> 00:26:42,440 Speaker 5: A border that day. 611 00:26:43,279 --> 00:26:45,920 Speaker 8: The whole day we were there, Tim Curry was in 612 00:26:46,160 --> 00:26:50,480 costume and in makeup. He had these real grimy tea 613 00:26:50,839 --> 00:26:51,799 and one of the people I. 614 00:26:51,759 --> 00:26:54,200 Speaker 5: Introduced, oh, could I please take a picture sir. 615 00:26:54,599 --> 00:26:59,720 Speaker 8: Or any smiles? And he has these grimy teeth. He 616 00:26:59,759 --> 00:27:02,319 was a year tour or something, so I can relate 617 00:27:02,359 --> 00:27:06,200 to that for him. But I don't think he smiled 618 00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:09,680 too too obviously when those pictures, because and someone said 619 00:27:09,720 --> 00:27:10,559 that his real teeth. 620 00:27:10,599 --> 00:27:15,799 Speaker 6: I said, I know, I have a picture with them 621 00:27:15,799 --> 00:27:18,640 too from that and he's smiling like broadly, and like 622 00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:21,960 everybody who've seen it said, oh my god, he must 623 00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:22,640 be British. 624 00:27:23,039 --> 00:27:25,480 Speaker 7: Anyway, I wasn't going to go there, Jim No, but 625 00:27:25,599 --> 00:27:26,759 I thought the same thing. 626 00:27:28,279 --> 00:27:30,839 Speaker 4: I just got his memoir over the weekend, and he's 627 00:27:30,880 --> 00:27:33,880 got a whole section devoted to Criminal Minds and how 628 00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:34,319 much he. 629 00:27:34,319 --> 00:27:36,440 Speaker 7: Enjoyed the Shadow and how he is Wow. 630 00:27:36,839 --> 00:27:39,720 Speaker 4: Yeah, he actually he was talking about how he went 631 00:27:39,759 --> 00:27:43,799 to the same gym as Kristin Vingsnas and he actually 632 00:27:43,960 --> 00:27:48,039 asked her is there anything available on Criminal Minds right now? 633 00:27:48,279 --> 00:27:51,799 Because he wanted to play a part, and so she managed. 634 00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:52,920 Speaker 7: To hook him up with that. Wow. 635 00:27:53,160 --> 00:27:56,160 Speaker 6: And I remember in the writer's room when Ed Buonaro 636 00:27:56,359 --> 00:27:59,279 told us, Hey, guess who wants to come on and 637 00:27:59,359 --> 00:28:02,000 so the episodes were actually written with him in mind. 638 00:28:02,319 --> 00:28:08,880 Speaker 7: Oh wow, because doing this show, Yes, yep, Prince of Darkness. 639 00:28:08,920 --> 00:28:09,519 Speaker 5: He was great. 640 00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:12,119 Speaker 4: While I have all three of you here, because I 641 00:28:12,119 --> 00:28:14,240 know Bobby is going to have to leave us in 642 00:28:14,240 --> 00:28:16,079 a couple of minutes, I want to get into talking. 643 00:28:15,799 --> 00:28:17,279 Speaker 7: About specific episodes. 644 00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:18,920 Speaker 4: And so when I knew I was going to have 645 00:28:18,920 --> 00:28:20,920 the three of you, I asked each of you to 646 00:28:20,960 --> 00:28:23,759 give me an episode that it was particular importance to you, 647 00:28:23,839 --> 00:28:26,799 either because you helped write it or because the story 648 00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:29,799 had some personal impact. I want to get into some 649 00:28:29,920 --> 00:28:33,319 of those episodes first. So I actually want to go 650 00:28:33,319 --> 00:28:36,880 ahead and start with because Jim c and Bobby have 651 00:28:36,960 --> 00:28:40,319 alluded to this one already, let's talk a little bit 652 00:28:40,359 --> 00:28:45,920 about Ghost, which you both co wrote together. It was 653 00:28:46,039 --> 00:28:48,599 the last season of Criminal Minds when it aired on 654 00:28:48,680 --> 00:28:52,799 CBS before it jumped to Paramount Plus. And I like 655 00:28:52,839 --> 00:28:54,519 the fact that we have you guys because FITZI were 656 00:28:54,519 --> 00:28:56,880 there at the beginning, Jim Clementy you've been there all 657 00:28:56,920 --> 00:28:58,720 the way around, and Bobby you didn't come into the end. 658 00:28:59,559 --> 00:29:02,000 But I love knowing that you guys can see the 659 00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:06,079 continuum of the way the whole entire series has gone. Yeah, 660 00:29:06,440 --> 00:29:09,519 so Bobby, my first question before we get into episodes specifics, 661 00:29:09,599 --> 00:29:12,640 is for you, you came onto the Criminal mindset when 662 00:29:12,680 --> 00:29:15,240 there'd been like a lot of casting changes, There's been 663 00:29:15,279 --> 00:29:18,680 a lot of creative team shake up some things like that. 664 00:29:18,880 --> 00:29:22,160 Speaker 7: What was it like walking onto an already established show. 665 00:29:22,279 --> 00:29:25,160 Speaker 4: You've obviously got a little bit of an advantage because 666 00:29:25,240 --> 00:29:27,680 Jim so well, But what was it like to come 667 00:29:27,720 --> 00:29:31,799 onto set that was very clearly obviously like we're family. 668 00:29:32,680 --> 00:29:33,160 Speaker 5: Yeah, I was. 669 00:29:33,799 --> 00:29:36,039 Speaker 10: You would think that it would have been intimidating or 670 00:29:36,160 --> 00:29:37,920 a little click issue or something, but I found it 671 00:29:37,960 --> 00:29:39,279 really welcoming. 672 00:29:39,519 --> 00:29:40,160 Speaker 5: I found it. 673 00:29:40,279 --> 00:29:42,839 Speaker 10: I was two years prior on this spin off show, 674 00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:45,039 so I did get to see some and get to 675 00:29:45,079 --> 00:29:47,559 know some people, but it was a different type of thing. 676 00:29:47,759 --> 00:29:50,400 Is beyond boarders. I was on set every day and 677 00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:52,440 in the Mothership. I was literally in the writer's room 678 00:29:52,440 --> 00:29:54,440 every day. But when you write an episode, you're also 679 00:29:54,519 --> 00:29:57,240 on set for that episode. So it was really it 680 00:29:57,279 --> 00:29:59,759 was amazing because what Jim had told me, Jim and 681 00:29:59,799 --> 00:30:02,079 Tam told me just making an education. I felt like 682 00:30:02,079 --> 00:30:03,519 it was a film school. You go and you're on 683 00:30:03,519 --> 00:30:05,359 the set of a hit show and you're learning everything. 684 00:30:05,400 --> 00:30:07,079 Now I'm in the writer's room with all of these 685 00:30:07,079 --> 00:30:10,079 really established writers, but they were all so friendly and 686 00:30:10,119 --> 00:30:12,640 so welcoming. I would sit I would walk into it 687 00:30:12,720 --> 00:30:15,640 was a Bruce Zimmerman his office, so said, oh, Chris 688 00:30:15,680 --> 00:30:17,880 Barber's office, and sit in there and just picked their brain. 689 00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:18,160 Speaker 8: Hay. 690 00:30:18,279 --> 00:30:19,400 Speaker 5: And really when. 691 00:30:19,960 --> 00:30:22,759 Speaker 10: It really taught me, like, these guys call themselves writer producers, 692 00:30:22,759 --> 00:30:25,720 and they really are, because as you're writing a television 693 00:30:25,720 --> 00:30:28,119 show like this, you're really producing it in your head 694 00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:30,279 at the same time. I'll give you example, and one 695 00:30:30,799 --> 00:30:32,359 we were writing our episode. I had the thing I 696 00:30:32,440 --> 00:30:33,799 had to write the board. You have to write all 697 00:30:33,839 --> 00:30:35,440 your acts on the board and stuff. And so we 698 00:30:35,480 --> 00:30:38,559 did the scenes and the cards and Chris Barber was 699 00:30:38,559 --> 00:30:40,480 looking at it one day and he says, okay, look 700 00:30:40,519 --> 00:30:42,400 here and here. So I had the way I had 701 00:30:42,519 --> 00:30:46,079 written was we're interviewing on day two or something mom 702 00:30:46,519 --> 00:30:49,400 and dad and the sister of somebody, and in they 703 00:30:49,799 --> 00:30:51,240 ate their back at the house. And he says, you 704 00:30:51,279 --> 00:30:54,000 can't do that because that's two locations and it's three 705 00:30:54,039 --> 00:30:55,359 different speaking parts. 706 00:30:55,359 --> 00:30:57,960 Speaker 5: So put this in the We're gonna put this in 707 00:30:57,960 --> 00:30:58,480 the police station. 708 00:30:58,519 --> 00:31:00,200 Speaker 10: We're gonna have them come to the police station, which 709 00:31:00,200 --> 00:31:01,880 we have on three or four different shows, three or 710 00:31:01,920 --> 00:31:04,079 four different days. So you're taking them out of the 711 00:31:04,079 --> 00:31:06,599 living room because that's a one less location, putting them 712 00:31:06,599 --> 00:31:09,279 into a police station, which you already have in other scenes, 713 00:31:09,519 --> 00:31:12,079 and so you're cutting down on your scenes, and you're 714 00:31:12,079 --> 00:31:14,599 having the dad talk and not the sister talk. So 715 00:31:14,680 --> 00:31:17,720 now you're cutting down a speaking part. That's all money 716 00:31:17,799 --> 00:31:20,200 for production. So all of that is that's why you're 717 00:31:20,200 --> 00:31:23,160 a writer producer, because as you're writing it, you're like, 718 00:31:23,279 --> 00:31:26,119 I didn't know that that was really hard to learn. 719 00:31:26,279 --> 00:31:28,480 Speaker 5: But for somebody like Jim who's worked on it for years, 720 00:31:28,640 --> 00:31:29,319 you had. 721 00:31:29,200 --> 00:31:29,839 Speaker 7: To learn it too. 722 00:31:30,160 --> 00:31:32,920 Speaker 10: Yeah, but by at some point it's automatic and you're 723 00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:36,359 not creating additional budget to additional locations and different actors 724 00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:37,960 and stuff coming onto that set. 725 00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:39,319 Speaker 5: I remember I was talking. 726 00:31:39,400 --> 00:31:42,200 Speaker 10: I made good friends with the stunt coordinator because that 727 00:31:42,519 --> 00:31:45,200 him and I as a technical advisor, are attached, and 728 00:31:45,240 --> 00:31:48,240 the armorer and even the sound guys. The sound guy, 729 00:31:48,359 --> 00:31:51,519 I really learned fast on these things. Coming that in 730 00:31:51,640 --> 00:31:54,599 season thirteen, and we weren't we thought we were going 731 00:31:54,640 --> 00:31:56,359 to fourteen, which we were, and stuff but I came 732 00:31:56,440 --> 00:31:59,960 right after because the whole Hotch controversy happened while I've 733 00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:03,039 over on Beyond Borders, so I missed all of that, 734 00:32:03,119 --> 00:32:05,400 the whole all of that and some of the other things. 735 00:32:05,400 --> 00:32:07,839 And Shamar was gone already by the time I got there. 736 00:32:08,160 --> 00:32:10,279 Hotch was already gone by the time I got there. 737 00:32:10,480 --> 00:32:12,799 And so when I got there, Daniel came in and 738 00:32:12,839 --> 00:32:15,319 he came over from Beyond Borders. We kind of came 739 00:32:15,359 --> 00:32:18,640 into a very well oiled machine and they were very welcoming. 740 00:32:18,720 --> 00:32:21,599 Speaker 5: There was no feeling of being an outsider. It was 741 00:32:21,720 --> 00:32:23,799 right in. All the writers were great. 742 00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:26,680 Speaker 10: I think one of the writers came over from Beyond Borders. 743 00:32:26,720 --> 00:32:27,960 Speaker 7: I think Chris did. 744 00:32:29,160 --> 00:32:31,640 Speaker 5: And then Erica Meredith was Did she come over from 745 00:32:31,680 --> 00:32:32,240 Beyond Boarders. 746 00:32:32,559 --> 00:32:35,799 Speaker 7: She was Erica's assistant and then yeah, went. 747 00:32:35,759 --> 00:32:37,799 Speaker 10: To Beyond Boarders because I knew her from Beyond Borders, 748 00:32:37,799 --> 00:32:39,000 so I knew some of the writers. 749 00:32:39,640 --> 00:32:41,119 Speaker 5: But yeah, it was not. 750 00:32:41,119 --> 00:32:44,799 Speaker 10: Knowing anything else coming into a major show that's a 751 00:32:44,880 --> 00:32:47,000 hit and has been a hit for years. It was 752 00:32:47,440 --> 00:32:49,640 now I look back and said, that was a well 753 00:32:49,680 --> 00:32:53,480 oiled machine. Everybody was like top of their profession and 754 00:32:53,519 --> 00:32:56,079 you don't now and obviously you wouldn't be there if 755 00:32:56,079 --> 00:32:59,720 you weren't because from Erica Messer to bring. 756 00:32:59,480 --> 00:33:02,519 Speaker 7: To from Us from OZ, he directed OZ. 757 00:33:02,920 --> 00:33:04,880 Speaker 10: It was a great It was just a great experience 758 00:33:04,920 --> 00:33:07,839 and go into a show that was so long running 759 00:33:07,920 --> 00:33:09,079 and so everybody knew what. 760 00:33:09,079 --> 00:33:11,200 Speaker 5: They were doing, and it was a good learning experience 761 00:33:11,200 --> 00:33:11,400 for me. 762 00:33:11,960 --> 00:33:15,079 Speaker 7: We used an industry term, let's help for our listeners. 763 00:33:15,319 --> 00:33:16,680 What does an armorer do? 764 00:33:17,319 --> 00:33:20,240 Speaker 10: And armor works with any kind of weapons on set. 765 00:33:20,319 --> 00:33:23,440 So our crew, our team obviously all carries guns. So 766 00:33:23,480 --> 00:33:27,359 the armor is responsible for the guns, even prop. 767 00:33:27,119 --> 00:33:28,039 Speaker 5: Guns, real guns. 768 00:33:28,039 --> 00:33:30,279 Speaker 10: We don't use real guns, but prop guns and things 769 00:33:30,279 --> 00:33:32,920 like that. So the armor always is the one that's 770 00:33:32,920 --> 00:33:35,039 in charge of all of those things. He works with 771 00:33:35,119 --> 00:33:37,599 the special effects people on the guns and things like that. 772 00:33:37,640 --> 00:33:39,759 So it's a team effort, but the armor is responsible 773 00:33:39,799 --> 00:33:41,240 for all the weapons on set. 774 00:33:41,640 --> 00:33:42,920 Speaker 5: So Erica Messer, she was. 775 00:33:42,920 --> 00:33:44,880 Speaker 10: Actually our show runnerund Beyond Borders and she was running 776 00:33:44,880 --> 00:33:46,319 the mothership at the same time. 777 00:33:46,599 --> 00:33:47,559 Speaker 5: An incredible woman. 778 00:33:47,839 --> 00:33:50,480 Speaker 10: And then Glenn Kershaw who was like always at her 779 00:33:50,799 --> 00:33:53,279 right hand, and Harry Bing who was Jim. 780 00:33:53,319 --> 00:33:55,799 Speaker 7: He was like the the line producer. 781 00:33:55,440 --> 00:33:57,440 Speaker 10: Line producer, so he was the budget guy so he 782 00:33:57,599 --> 00:34:00,920 watched all the Frieden Frasier who was the head writer, Bruce. 783 00:34:00,720 --> 00:34:03,319 Speaker 5: Emmerman, who was a novelist but a writer in the. 784 00:34:03,359 --> 00:34:05,920 Speaker 10: Room, was an experienced guy, and Chris Barber, all of 785 00:34:05,960 --> 00:34:09,360 the Stephanie Sang Goopta, all of these incredible writers that 786 00:34:09,599 --> 00:34:12,559 gave their time to me as a neophyte and taught 787 00:34:12,559 --> 00:34:14,599 me all these different things. I just I was a 788 00:34:14,599 --> 00:34:16,760 sponge where I sat in Jim's office and watched him work. 789 00:34:16,960 --> 00:34:19,360 I remember still, Jim, the episode that you wrote that 790 00:34:19,400 --> 00:34:21,280 I did the research on, with the mercy killing nurse 791 00:34:21,480 --> 00:34:23,599 and things like that, with the Jews and stuff, and 792 00:34:23,920 --> 00:34:25,480 that was and again one of my that's probably my 793 00:34:25,519 --> 00:34:27,039 second favorite episode. 794 00:34:27,360 --> 00:34:29,079 Speaker 4: I'm an English teacher, so of course I look for 795 00:34:29,199 --> 00:34:31,719 themes and things, and one of the big themes that 796 00:34:31,760 --> 00:34:34,840 I saw in Ghost was this sense of being comrades 797 00:34:34,880 --> 00:34:38,960 at arms and leaving no man behind. I'm just curious 798 00:34:39,000 --> 00:34:43,039 to the three of you consider yourselves to be brothers 799 00:34:43,079 --> 00:34:45,320 in arms because of the bonds you share with the 800 00:34:45,400 --> 00:34:47,599 FBI and with being consultants on this ship. 801 00:34:48,039 --> 00:34:48,880 Speaker 5: How do you feel about that? 802 00:34:49,639 --> 00:34:52,119 Speaker 7: Absolutely go fits no. 803 00:34:52,400 --> 00:34:55,000 Speaker 8: We Jim, you and I kicked indoors together in the 804 00:34:55,039 --> 00:34:57,760 South Bronx and in Brooklyn in our New York days, 805 00:34:57,800 --> 00:35:00,760 and we worked definitely work cases together as profilers. And 806 00:35:00,800 --> 00:35:03,920 then three thousand miles due west of there, we were 807 00:35:03,960 --> 00:35:07,039 doing the same thing in Hollywood. And yeah, Jim kicked 808 00:35:07,079 --> 00:35:09,239 open a lot of doors in Hollywood, and I was 809 00:35:09,320 --> 00:35:10,559 usually there right behind. 810 00:35:10,360 --> 00:35:11,800 Speaker 5: Them a long time a few times. 811 00:35:11,840 --> 00:35:14,280 Speaker 8: So yeah, and then Bobby came along later when I 812 00:35:14,360 --> 00:35:16,719 knew Bobby's in Bobbin, I just my personal life. I 813 00:35:16,760 --> 00:35:19,039 was never I wasn't ready to move to La and 814 00:35:19,119 --> 00:35:21,800 Jim did right away, I know Bobby did. So they 815 00:35:21,840 --> 00:35:25,119 definitely got more in constant in the whole field there. 816 00:35:25,119 --> 00:35:27,440 But I made sure there was twice at least twice 817 00:35:27,440 --> 00:35:29,440 a season I was out there. What was a gym 818 00:35:29,559 --> 00:35:32,559 every June where they broke stories, and that was important 819 00:35:32,559 --> 00:35:34,599 a week to be there. The writer just came back 820 00:35:34,639 --> 00:35:36,960 from there twelve weeks or so off eight or twelve 821 00:35:36,960 --> 00:35:39,360 weeks after the season ended. So I was always a 822 00:35:39,400 --> 00:35:41,440 privileged to be there for that. And yeah, they would 823 00:35:41,480 --> 00:35:43,559 pick my brain too, And most of my work in 824 00:35:43,639 --> 00:35:47,079 seasons three and four was done by telephone and by emails. 825 00:35:47,159 --> 00:35:48,800 Speaker 5: Right, I would we descript and go over in that way. 826 00:35:48,920 --> 00:35:52,079 Speaker 8: But yeah, as far as brothers kicking indoors in real time, 827 00:35:52,159 --> 00:35:55,280 but also doing it on not filming, but recording, these 828 00:35:55,320 --> 00:35:58,079 episodes meant a lot to us, and we backed each 829 00:35:58,119 --> 00:36:00,239 other up all the time and still do as a 830 00:36:00,239 --> 00:36:01,559 matter of absolutely. 831 00:36:01,840 --> 00:36:04,280 Speaker 6: And Bobby and I, when we were in the room 832 00:36:04,320 --> 00:36:08,559 together many times on Criminal Minds and on other shows 833 00:36:08,599 --> 00:36:10,960 that we worked on together, had to deal with what 834 00:36:11,159 --> 00:36:15,639 is unfortunately a typical writer's thing, which is relying on 835 00:36:15,719 --> 00:36:19,480 what they have seen or read or heard as opposed 836 00:36:19,480 --> 00:36:22,760 to what they have experienced. This is something that Bobby 837 00:36:22,760 --> 00:36:26,039 and I and Jim Fitz brought to Criminal Minds, and 838 00:36:26,320 --> 00:36:28,639 I think, I like to think anyway that it is 839 00:36:28,679 --> 00:36:31,079 one of the reasons why it has had such staying 840 00:36:31,119 --> 00:36:34,960 power because we have real learning points in every episode, 841 00:36:35,199 --> 00:36:37,639 and some of the writers have come up with really 842 00:36:37,719 --> 00:36:42,079 extremely bizarre scenarios and we tried to pull them into 843 00:36:42,800 --> 00:36:46,159 back to reality and try to make it use learning 844 00:36:46,199 --> 00:36:50,280 points from cases that we actually work even though circumstances 845 00:36:50,320 --> 00:36:54,159 and names and the types of crimes are different. We 846 00:36:54,440 --> 00:36:59,719 tried to use real teaching points in every episode. 847 00:36:59,599 --> 00:37:02,800 Speaker 10: Yeah, and when Ghosts we did not only that, not 848 00:37:02,840 --> 00:37:05,480 only do we have the characters Daniel's character and Adam's 849 00:37:05,559 --> 00:37:08,000 character as kind of brothers on the Profiling are but 850 00:37:08,039 --> 00:37:10,719 the bad guys also had brothers the bad guy. So 851 00:37:10,800 --> 00:37:12,480 we had the bad the good brothers, and we had 852 00:37:12,480 --> 00:37:15,039 the bad brothers in that episode, so we actually highlighted 853 00:37:15,039 --> 00:37:17,480 it from both ends of that. But they weren't blood 854 00:37:17,480 --> 00:37:20,320 brothers Adam and Daniel their characters, but they were certainly 855 00:37:20,360 --> 00:37:22,239 at the end in the jet you see them say 856 00:37:22,480 --> 00:37:23,239 he has a ranger. 857 00:37:23,400 --> 00:37:24,840 Speaker 5: Never leave a brother behind, fellaw ra. 858 00:37:26,480 --> 00:37:29,320 Speaker 2: Join us again next time as we continue our conversation 859 00:37:29,519 --> 00:37:33,639 with Jim Clemente, James Fitzgerald, and Bobby Shacone and their 860 00:37:33,760 --> 00:37:38,719 roles as creative staff on the hit TV show Criminal Minds, 861 00:37:38,760 --> 00:37:43,360 now celebrating its twentieth anniversary. That's it for this episode 862 00:37:43,360 --> 00:37:46,559 of Mind Over Murder. Thanks so much for listening. We'll 863 00:37:46,559 --> 00:37:47,400 see you next time. 864 00:37:56,679 --> 00:38:00,199 Speaker 1: Mind Over Murder is a production of Absolute Zero and 865 00:38:00,320 --> 00:38:01,719 Another Dog Productions. 866 00:38:02,280 --> 00:38:05,599 Speaker 2: Our executive producers are Bill Thomas and Kristin Dilley. 867 00:38:05,960 --> 00:38:08,400 Speaker 1: Our logo art is by Pamela Arnois. 868 00:38:09,039 --> 00:38:11,119 Speaker 2: Our theme music is by Kevin McLoud. 869 00:38:11,639 --> 00:38:16,159 Speaker 1: Mind Over Murder is distributed in partnership with Coral Space Media. 870 00:38:16,320 --> 00:38:19,480 Speaker 2: You can follow us on Facebook, Twitter, or Instagram. 871 00:38:19,679 --> 00:38:22,280 Speaker 1: You can also follow our page on the Colonial Parkway 872 00:38:22,360 --> 00:38:24,159 murders on Facebook. 873 00:38:23,920 --> 00:38:26,960 Speaker 2: And finally, you can follow Bill Thomas on Twitter at 874 00:38:27,000 --> 00:38:27,719 Bill Thomas. 875 00:38:27,960 --> 00:38:28,599 Speaker 7: Five six. 876 00:38:29,079 --> 00:38:32,199 Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to Mind Over Murder