Speaker 1: Baby, I'm a gangstato.
Speaker 2: It takes out a tangle.
Speaker 1: You don't mess with me, baby, I'm a gangsta.
Speaker 2: Touch baby, you're a Gangstattoo.
Speaker 1: For the warners, this podcast is designed to take you
Speaker 1: outside of your comfort zone and make you question reality.
Speaker 1: Listener Discretion is a vibe the fellas. This ain't my
Speaker 1: first time at the rodeos, William Ramsey, It's been a
Speaker 1: long time actually, I think maybe even about a year
Speaker 1: since we've talked. How are you?
Speaker 2: How are you?
Speaker 3: How was your Christmas?
Speaker 1: It's good, it was good. I'm interested to see what
Speaker 1: it's gonna break loose in the new year. Not gonna lie.
Speaker 1: Do you have any predictions for us?
Speaker 3: I think it's just gonna be more chaos and trouble,
Speaker 3: So I'm not so.
Speaker 1: I love you. I have no idea, you know. I
Speaker 1: spoke with the guests recently and they were talking about
Speaker 1: how the pendulum swings and right now we're super super
Speaker 1: far left, and we'll gradually head to like super super
Speaker 1: far right, and I don't know, it's just like a
Speaker 1: pattern kind of throughout time. So I don't know.
Speaker 3: We'll see, Yeah, we will see. I mean, it pretends
Speaker 3: to be very interesting coming. I think that I'll be
Speaker 3: surprised if Trump even gets into office. Thing, he's got
Speaker 3: to really twenty more days. Yeah, so try to kill
Speaker 3: him at least twice that we don't so who knows
Speaker 3: next one will be like go truck bomb or something
Speaker 3: like that. Right, they're scared. I think they're scared of
Speaker 3: all the prime with some of the bags of mine. Actually,
Speaker 3: the accountability this time because he seemed to angrycently may
Speaker 3: not be a peaceful transference now, so we'll.
Speaker 1: Have to see. Well, I actually have been kind of
Speaker 1: looking into something recently and I think you might actually
Speaker 1: know about it. I first discovered Dave McGowan from looking
Speaker 1: into the Laurel Canyon and I read strange scenes from
Speaker 1: the canyon, and then I've recently kind of been diving
Speaker 1: into one of his other books, which is Programmed to Kill.
Speaker 1: And I'm sure you're familiar with that one. Have you
Speaker 1: ever read it?
Speaker 3: I've read it many times. I read it again. I've
Speaker 3: done a show on it. So I did a show
Speaker 3: on program to Kill with Tom and Brett of SAP Cinema,
Speaker 3: so we kind of reviewed it. So I would say
Speaker 3: I'm very familiar with it. It's a seminal book. It's
Speaker 3: a very important book when you think about it. From
Speaker 3: two thousand and four. This is kind of the beginnings
Speaker 3: of the Internet. What he achieved and what he was
Speaker 3: able to compile for me is extraordinary, and.
Speaker 1: I think that a lot of times we get stuck
Speaker 1: on like the serial killer aspect of it. But there's
Speaker 1: like four or five chapters in the beginning when he
Speaker 1: breaks down all these pedophile rings and like the Belgian
Speaker 1: beast I think is what they called him, Mark Dutroux,
Speaker 1: and he had all those little girls like buried all
Speaker 1: over his property and stuff. Those are the kind of
Speaker 1: things that people really don't even know about.
Speaker 3: They don't know how dark it was. The dutro was
Speaker 3: very very dark. I mean, that's an incredible story. I've
Speaker 3: interviewed people from Belgium about that. And there was actually
Speaker 3: a massive cover up, so much like the scandal that
Speaker 3: happened in Omaha, Nebraska that was covered by a couple
Speaker 3: of journals. But this is like, not only were they
Speaker 3: trafficking kids and Dutroux was networked, but they're like people
Speaker 3: kids who died in dungeons and stuff. But it went
Speaker 3: through the whole system in Belgium, like it reached to
Speaker 3: the top and implicated a lot of landed gentry like
Speaker 3: people who are the aristocracy there. But then when he
Speaker 3: got caught, like twenty five people around him died. So
Speaker 3: it's clearly a pretty intense cover up as well. But yeah,
Speaker 3: super dark.
Speaker 1: And so what did you think. I know you've talked
Speaker 1: about the Smiley Face killers a lot, what did you
Speaker 1: think after it started getting into some of the more
Speaker 1: well known serial killers, the gay Sy and the Dohmer
Speaker 1: and the Bundy. So a lot of the crimes that
Speaker 1: have been attributed to them don't even make sense for
Speaker 1: them to have committed the crime. And a lot of
Speaker 1: the Ted Bundy victims are like Smiley Face victims. They've
Speaker 1: been they found out, they've been hell somewhere for like
Speaker 1: a week and tortured and then they're drained of blood
Speaker 1: and then their bodies just pop up somewhere else. And
Speaker 1: then there was one of the gay Sy victims that
Speaker 1: turned up in a river or something like that.
Speaker 3: Last four, the last four Gaycy victims were all disposed
Speaker 3: of in southern Chicago in a river, so very much
Speaker 3: like the Atlanta child murders.
Speaker 1: By the way, what do you think, Like, could it
Speaker 1: be possible for the whole smiley faceing to have gone
Speaker 1: back even further than we can imagine? Like and some
Speaker 1: of these victims that they put on, these serial killers
Speaker 1: Ted Bundy, Gayzy, I don't even think they did it,
Speaker 1: like some of them, they weren't even in town, Like
Speaker 1: it's crazy.
Speaker 3: Yeah, No, I think you're right, and I think it's
Speaker 3: an interesting thing. Gaysey was clearly traveling around. One of
Speaker 3: the people who was going to be a victim who
Speaker 3: survived Gayzy uh said that he was in the house
Speaker 3: and saw a door open, So it wasn't Gayzy, So
Speaker 3: somebody else had to have known. And Gaysey was networked
Speaker 3: that there was these very uncomfortable connections between himself and
Speaker 3: the candy They call it the candy Man and the
Speaker 3: Clown was the documentary. But the Candyman in Houston, Texas,
Speaker 3: who was part of this pedophile network. He was connected
Speaker 3: between a guy whose name I can't remember now, between
Speaker 3: him Philip Paski thank you Pasky PASDHK or something like that.
Speaker 3: He who worked for Bundy and also one of the
Speaker 3: employees of Bundy went on to become known as the
Speaker 3: Ripper crew, So he was another his name was Gets
Speaker 3: or Goats, who was like a crew going around abducting
Speaker 3: women and torturing them the most horrible way imaginable. Definitely
Speaker 3: a Satanist, which they conveniently cover up. So I think
Speaker 3: some of the people who are attributed to Casey, I
Speaker 3: think Casey was politically connected. He was part of He's
Speaker 3: an Alderman. He was going to all kinds of jc's
Speaker 3: and all kinds of like social groups, So I think
Speaker 3: that there might have been other people involved. It would
Speaker 3: totally make sense. But he just took the fall.
Speaker 1: So I recently listened to The Clown and the Candyman,
Speaker 1: and I had no idea about this Dean Coral guy
Speaker 1: that was involved with all the gosh, what was his name,
Speaker 1: John David Norman or something like that.
Speaker 3: The Genesis Group or something Vegas group.
Speaker 1: And so there's it's all like interwoven like a web.
Speaker 1: There was like Dean Coral. Then there was a guy
Speaker 1: in the documentary she called it the first Pedophile Island
Speaker 1: or something like that, and I think his last name
Speaker 1: was Sherman or I'm not, I can't remember. And then
Speaker 1: this John David Norman guy in Philip Pasky, and when
Speaker 1: you put all of those pieces together, it just it's
Speaker 1: too much. And I don't know why we never took
Speaker 1: them at their word. Like Gacy used to say, there's
Speaker 1: other people involved. Bundy used to say there's other people involved,
Speaker 1: and we were just like, Okay, yeah, sure, there's other
Speaker 1: people involved.
Speaker 3: I think that it's the same kind of phenomenon that
Speaker 3: happened with Berkowitz. Is like you have the subject, there's
Speaker 3: this big panic within the local community, somebody gets caught,
Speaker 3: and then it's done, and so they have a clean cutcase.
Speaker 3: So it's a lot easier for the police, I think,
Speaker 3: and the authorities to just attribute it to one person
Speaker 3: and move forward and saying it's a whole network and
Speaker 3: trying to wrap it up with a huge network. And
Speaker 3: I think that, yeah, that's what happens with Franklin cover
Speaker 3: up too. This is a massive network. And I think
Speaker 3: McGowan keyed into that earlier. And there's a really good
Speaker 3: book that came out recently that's very arrowing, and I
Speaker 3: think it's kind of an adjunct to program to kill it.
Speaker 3: I have the CHICKENOK have you heard of that?
Speaker 1: No?
Speaker 3: Who is well? I don't know his real name, but
Speaker 3: he goes I can't remember his alias, but it's let
Speaker 3: me see if I can find it. But it's like
Speaker 3: basically going over It's like McGowan's book, but more detail
Speaker 3: of these networked pedophile groups. Oh my guy, Simon Dovey,
Speaker 3: do O v.
Speaker 1: E y, and you read this whole thing.
Speaker 3: I skimmed it, but let me see. I wish I
Speaker 3: could pull it up. Maybe you could pull it up.
Speaker 3: It's interesting because it's basically like a flow chart of
Speaker 3: these over It kind of goes into the theme of
Speaker 3: what we've been talking about.
Speaker 1: Let me I have the chicken behind it.
Speaker 3: Because it shows these little boxes and float chart like
Speaker 3: a I don't know what kind of diagram it is.
Speaker 3: I don't think it's a ben diagram, but just shows
Speaker 3: how they're all overlapping and connected, much like that Norman
Speaker 3: guy was was like pre internet. He was like a collector, right,
Speaker 3: so he's had this kind of collector keeper thing of
Speaker 3: like the young boys and the names and the past
Speaker 3: cards and all this stuff.
Speaker 1: Let me see if I can share. I just found
Speaker 1: I have the chicken hawk and it looks like so
Speaker 1: I found it on that's it, Yeah, Amazon, And it's
Speaker 1: got Yeah, it's got like this little web.
Speaker 3: Show, these webs of connects and connect yeah, and on
Speaker 3: mine it has really good reviews, like you know, four
Speaker 3: point five, but you'll just see the different names.
Speaker 1: So what are your thoughts on like Dahmer.
Speaker 3: Connected, he was onnoperative. He was well known within the
Speaker 3: kind of gay community, so I think that he whether
Speaker 3: he was doing it with other people is a is
Speaker 3: an open question, but he was definitely moving around. It's
Speaker 3: kind of interesting because he got kicked out of the
Speaker 3: gay clubs in Milwaukee and ended up in Chicago, probably
Speaker 3: at this Man's club where in the gay clubs that
Speaker 3: Barack Obama is a number of.
Speaker 1: Gut Yeah.
Speaker 3: You can look up the man's country stories pretty disturbing well.
Speaker 1: And you know, I just actually was covering a little
Speaker 1: something about Jeffrey Dahmer in the topic came up that
Speaker 1: while he was in Germany there was people going missing
Speaker 1: and weird stuff with that too.
Speaker 3: So I don't know murders in Florida as well, so
Speaker 3: he may not. And Gasey, I think I don't think
Speaker 3: he had all his murders. He was traveling around. There's
Speaker 3: a really good like I forgot the name of the
Speaker 3: YouTube channel. But there's a guy who was a potential
Speaker 3: gay sy victim in Tennessee. So Gaysey would take road
Speaker 3: trips and try to find victims too. With the standard
Speaker 3: m he would bring like one luggage full of porn,
Speaker 3: another luggage with the like BDSM stuff and do the
Speaker 3: same techniques like Coral did. Right, So he learned directly
Speaker 3: from Coral. Hey do you want to try on these handcuffs?
Speaker 3: You know, Hey, it's a joke. You can get out
Speaker 3: of it. And they were done.
Speaker 1: So even in that documentary The Clown and the Candyman,
Speaker 1: she does a great job of connecting everything together, especially
Speaker 1: with the handcuff trick. And why would those two killers
Speaker 1: know the same handcuff trick quote unquote, But I had
Speaker 1: I recently just found out about Dean Coral, and I
Speaker 1: wonder why he's not made a bigger deal out of.
Speaker 3: It's a good question. I think that that dad is
Speaker 3: a huge bunch of like deaths, like all of them.
Speaker 3: And yeah, and they had these two kids working for
Speaker 3: him and they confessed. There's like videos of them together.
Speaker 3: So it's a disturbing it's a super disturbing story. And
Speaker 3: just the connections to the stuff, like where else is
Speaker 3: it happening? And how do you attribute these abductions? And
Speaker 3: then is this the predicate to the smiley faced killings?
Speaker 3: Because how similar are those victims to the victims of
Speaker 3: the SFK young men college age? Right? So instead of
Speaker 3: like maybe they're doing some international thing and there's like
Speaker 3: a psychic I had on my new on my most
Speaker 3: recent book, and she says they are kind of you know,
Speaker 3: in whatever she received, how much you want to take
Speaker 3: it as he with a grain of salt. But she
Speaker 3: says they're being collected. They're being filmed, much like these
Speaker 3: guys are being filmed, you know, or I think there
Speaker 3: was a film maybe in Connection Mists, but like she
Speaker 3: thinks that that's part of this whole phenomenon. Is this
Speaker 3: kind of duck did keep kept for a while, right,
Speaker 3: and then disposed of like really bad.
Speaker 1: So they're so they're making snuff films.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's what she's said.
Speaker 1: That makes sense.
Speaker 3: Yeah, makes a ton of sense. Right, So go select
Speaker 3: and it's you know, where's the most vulnerable place a
Speaker 3: dude walking alone after drinking at a bar, after maybe
Speaker 3: he got drugged with somebody in there or something. There's
Speaker 3: a process but the stories are just every story's kind
Speaker 3: of the same. Sadly about the Smiley based killers, young guy,
Speaker 3: most half of them are probably gay at a gay bar, acts,
Speaker 3: strange disappears down the river and yeah, it's still happening
Speaker 3: like a lot in are Austin.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was gonna say, I keep seeing him popping
Speaker 1: up randomly and I'll be like, oh, I bet William
Speaker 1: has seen this one. This is definitely it's hard to
Speaker 1: keep up.
Speaker 3: Like I it would be a literally be a full
Speaker 3: time job.
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I'm kidding, But that's why I think, like
Speaker 1: some of these victims, like Gaysey victims and even some
Speaker 1: of the Bundy victims that were held for a long
Speaker 1: time and then they turned up later and gay sy
Speaker 1: five of them in the river. Well after they put
Speaker 1: Bundy away, like people still kept going missing and bodies
Speaker 1: kept turning up, and then they would blame it on
Speaker 1: the Green River killer, or you know, it was the
Speaker 1: next killer, the next killer. But honestly, it could be
Speaker 1: the same group of killers since the beginning, Like I'm
Speaker 1: talking Zodiac, I'm talking you know, Manson, son of Sam, all.
Speaker 3: Of them, You're right, I mean, that's how scary it is.
Speaker 3: And I think it, like I said, it's convenient for
Speaker 3: the police, just like it's convenient for the authorities to
Speaker 3: say these you know, stage drownings are accidents, right, It's
Speaker 3: very they're looking for a convenient way. They don't want
Speaker 3: to do the hard work or actually do the thing
Speaker 3: and actually go, hey, this might be networked type of people.
Speaker 3: I mean, they did it in the kind of the
Speaker 3: Ripper crew out of Chicago. This guy gets who has
Speaker 3: worked for Bundy. They actually arrested all the people surrounding
Speaker 3: them and so but sometimes they do get the whole group.
Speaker 3: But I think, you know, some of these are working groups.
Speaker 3: There was another guy that I did a research who
Speaker 3: was a gay serial killer and the book was by macdonnaugh.
Speaker 3: His name was Craft. There's another kind of guy like
Speaker 3: Coral who isn't emphasized. You almost never hear about the
Speaker 3: skuy Los Angeles. Guess how many victims they think he
Speaker 3: had attributed to him?
Speaker 1: One hundred, one hundred victims here, one hundred victims.
Speaker 3: And then mcdonna's like, yeah, there's no way he could
Speaker 3: have done it alone. Because and this is kind of
Speaker 3: like a process of thinking about the Smiley Face killers
Speaker 3: that's why I interviewed him. But he couldn't have done
Speaker 3: it alone because there was one where the victim was
Speaker 3: tossed from a moving car, so like how could somebody
Speaker 3: be driving or right, So it's like this, this doesn't
Speaker 3: make sense. And the same thing happened with another gay
Speaker 3: serial killer's name was Eyler in the Midwest, kind of
Speaker 3: almost like Jeffrey Dahmer Isler A y L e R.
Speaker 3: He was released to Kill that was the name of
Speaker 3: the book by Colaric and he she said like he
Speaker 3: probably was working with somebody else, and the filming and
Speaker 3: keeping and the BDSM and all that, those elements are all.
Speaker 1: There, you know, shut up. Wow. And then there's like
Speaker 1: the her Baumeister, Yeah, that bridella guy.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's the same thing. They were keeping people right right.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So it's like they're getting trained from on high
Speaker 1: and it's just like trickling down into like all these
Speaker 1: different networks.
Speaker 3: Right right, is in the program to kill also in
Speaker 3: and out of mental institutions, just like what was his name,
Speaker 3: Henry Lee Lucas, Right, So Henry.
Speaker 1: And otis Tool, Yeah.
Speaker 3: Adis Tool, yeah, O T T I s Audust Tool
Speaker 3: who's a very scary guy. The videos on that guy online,
Speaker 3: like if you saw him walking down the street, you
Speaker 3: went across.
Speaker 1: The street, Jesus, Yeah, no kidding, crazy looking. Oh, his
Speaker 1: family was what Satanist who dressed him up like a
Speaker 1: girl when he was a kid, and.
Speaker 3: Like traumatized from the very beginning, Like it's really Gek
Speaker 3: Robin Ghek was the name of the Ripper killer. That
Speaker 3: was okay, I was associated with the Who's in program
Speaker 3: to kill associated with Bundy g e ht But yeah,
Speaker 3: I mean in a Satanist too, like a stone.
Speaker 1: Called Satanist ted Bundy actually when after he was sentenced
Speaker 1: to death, ended up in the cell right next to Tool.
Speaker 1: It's just like it's just like they.
Speaker 3: Know each other too. Like I've done a thing on
Speaker 3: Schroeder who was the thing and he like compared himself
Speaker 3: to Bundy, and Bundy had a suspicious background, like there's
Speaker 3: research she said he was part of some kind of
Speaker 3: dark group in the Washington area and people liked to
Speaker 3: you know, I allege this and it's just so strange.
Speaker 3: Like the girl he wrote about him knew him and rule.
Speaker 1: She's she's something. She's also the first one that gave
Speaker 1: his name to the police. She's also friends with two
Speaker 1: of the victims. She also attended some kind of conference
Speaker 1: that they were having about all these missing girls, but
Speaker 1: they didn't know it was Ted yet, and then all
Speaker 1: of a sudden she goes to this conference and like
Speaker 1: a couple days later, she gives his name over to
Speaker 1: the Ted squad is what they called it. And I
Speaker 1: don't know. Ann Rule actually pops up a lot in
Speaker 1: the Ted Bundy story, and then she wrote that book.
Speaker 1: I think it's called The Stranger Beside Me, and she
Speaker 1: made herself and Ted famous in the process, So I
Speaker 1: don't know, cash Jen.
Speaker 3: I mean, there's weird connections like that. In these serial Killers.
Speaker 3: Catherine Ramsland becomes friends with Dennis Rader and writes the
Speaker 3: book about him. She's a PhD student, makes a lot
Speaker 3: of money, sells a lot of books, becomes famous. Who's
Speaker 3: one of her students. It's the guy who killed all
Speaker 3: the people in Moscow, Idaho. Was literally, yeah, the Moscow,
Speaker 3: Idaho's killer studied under Ramsland criminal criminal.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 3: Yeah, No, there's a direct connection between what was his
Speaker 3: name Ramsland? I forgot his name notes Schroeder.
Speaker 1: So he has a I think in German last name
Speaker 1: the serial killer.
Speaker 3: Yeah, the guy who killed the four women of the
Speaker 3: college aged people in Idaho, the Idaho More Coburger. Coburger
Speaker 3: studied under Ramsland.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So do you think that there are because I've
Speaker 1: asked myself this question, do you think that there are
Speaker 1: authentic grassroots serial killers among us? Or do you think
Speaker 1: that this has all been sensationalized in its networks and
Speaker 1: its cover ups and it's all I mean, we know
Speaker 1: about the infamous serial killers, but could there be also
Speaker 1: an equal amount of like grassroots just crazy psychopathic human
Speaker 1: beings out there that just want to kill other people.
Speaker 3: I think it's a mix. I think it's a mix.
Speaker 3: I think some of these guys are working together and
Speaker 3: they all there are only one who gets caught. And
Speaker 3: I think that there are that one guy Little who's
Speaker 3: an African American guy who had an incredible body count,
Speaker 3: probably just hated women. So I think that they're a
Speaker 3: mixed and I do think that some of these people
Speaker 3: are programmed to kill. I think that they're clearly the
Speaker 3: products of the stuff. One of the interesting things in
Speaker 3: this book, as he mentions this narrut guy that's not
Speaker 3: very well talked about, not often talked about ut who
Speaker 3: kind of spilled the beans in nineteen seventy five. He
Speaker 3: was in Europe and he's saying, like, we are the
Speaker 3: O and I the Office of Naval Intelligence is training
Speaker 3: guys to become program killers and then distribute them through
Speaker 3: the embassy, you know, places through embassies in the unit,
Speaker 3: the US kind of network or US Empire network to
Speaker 3: carry out contract killings. And a lot of them have criminal records,
Speaker 3: and it's all over the media like it's it's not
Speaker 3: like a story. It's a story that they don't talk about.
Speaker 3: It was covered up and then they denied it, but
Speaker 3: that paper does exist, and I think that it just
Speaker 3: shows that there's programs to create this programed killer, like
Speaker 3: to dissociate people and control them. And that's so many
Speaker 3: of these guys have come out of the Phoenix program,
Speaker 3: are connected to the Free Phoenix program or something else.
Speaker 3: Shaw Cross, Heydnick was part of this weird dark stuff.
Speaker 3: So you know, it's hard to say, Oh, Mullins, was
Speaker 3: these guys who were in Santa Cruz area, I think
Speaker 3: it was. There were three guys, and two of them
Speaker 3: are really strange, and I'd been exposed to large doses
Speaker 3: of LSD, and they're like they were next to each other,
Speaker 3: So Ed Kemper and Mullins and this other guy were
Speaker 3: all next to each other, and the under the aegis
Speaker 3: of a lot of MKL. This guy lund l u
Speaker 3: n D is mentioned in Program to Kill who's a
Speaker 3: big wig kind of behavioral science guy out of Stanford.
Speaker 3: And for their trials they were kept I think in
Speaker 3: San Jose or something away from Santa Cruz. So they're
Speaker 3: like right next to this whole epicenter of all these
Speaker 3: other people who you know, got out of jail, or
Speaker 3: the guys from the Cimbinese Liberation Army, which is nineteen
Speaker 3: seventy four. Manson's not sixty nine, so they're all around
Speaker 3: this area. So there is this weird and I've done
Speaker 3: shows like Vronsky where there's clearly a peak of serial
Speaker 3: kill that dropped off. It's inexplicable, but one of the
Speaker 3: ways you can explain it. There's a deduction you make
Speaker 3: is that they're connected to these programs, is that a
Speaker 3: lot of these guys have been literally programmed to kill.
Speaker 1: Well, what do you think about? So the ones that
Speaker 1: you're talking about that we're going down in the Santa
Speaker 1: Cruz area. It was the same time that kind of
Speaker 1: in the San Francisco area, they couldn't figure out who
Speaker 1: the zodiac was, right, and the zodiac was running crazy
Speaker 1: in San Francisco. What do you think about the theory
Speaker 1: that like someone like Michael Achino or Michael Achino could
Speaker 1: have been the zodiac or working with multiple other people
Speaker 1: to do these.
Speaker 3: I think it's pretty good. There's clearly an occulted element there,
Speaker 3: Like I mean, I can see that markers of the face,
Speaker 3: the targeting symbol, the letters that are sent out, the
Speaker 3: smiley face, cross school and crossbone letters that are sent out.
Speaker 3: The connection to some of the attorney who they reached
Speaker 3: out and talked to is very sophisticated, Like this isn't
Speaker 3: something so it implies a network also of like maybe
Speaker 3: an initiatory thing, much like the Sons of Sam people
Speaker 3: have made correlations between the Sons of Sam and the
Speaker 3: Zodiac is like more of a team effort. I think
Speaker 3: that it's very evident that the Son of Sam, it
Speaker 3: wasn't just burkele wit'z he can't talk. But it's pretty
Speaker 3: clear that the witnesses are seeing different people. The first
Speaker 3: hand witnesses aren't seeing a guy to matches berkele Witz's right, think,
Speaker 3: So I do think that there is something like that.
Speaker 3: There's an interesting kind of conversation between people the Temple
Speaker 3: of Set and the head of the Order of Nine
Speaker 3: Angles where he's saying, like, you guys sit around and
Speaker 3: decide to do it. And I think that it's part
Speaker 3: of the larger program to kill motif, which is the
Speaker 3: politics is to create social confusion and chaos in society.
Speaker 3: And then people were freaked out by the Son of Sam,
Speaker 3: like the whole at that time New York City was
Speaker 3: like stuck in a crime with but everybody's focused on
Speaker 3: these random killings, right, so it's created this massive fear
Speaker 3: and dread, which is like one of the impacts. Like
Speaker 3: they say that right at the beginning of it. McGowan
Speaker 3: mentions this guy Paul Videre, which is painted fear of
Speaker 3: the most useful tools, And what does the zodiac do
Speaker 3: maximizes fear, right, the fear of Like that's what people
Speaker 3: fear the most, is an unexpected instantaneous death. So like
Speaker 3: death is right around the corner. Ah, you know, that's
Speaker 3: what people like. Even if you say you're gonna die
Speaker 3: in six months, people won't freak out as much. But
Speaker 3: if they think that and that Osama bin Lauden's going
Speaker 3: to jump out of a bush and Stabby to death,
Speaker 3: much like ten to seven, really strange. So you see
Speaker 3: these weird comed events seven seven, ten, seven, nine to eleven,
Speaker 3: well or they all have the same component, like you're
Speaker 3: going to get immediately killed by a moss or all that.
Speaker 3: So you see that the psychological operation.
Speaker 1: Aspect of all and there's so many layers to it too,
Speaker 1: because with the Zodiac, you had all these people trying
Speaker 1: to cipher codes and they they it was almost like
Speaker 1: they made a game out of it. You know, they
Speaker 1: would turn on the TV try to decipher the Zodiac's
Speaker 1: new letter in the new code and it they literally
Speaker 1: made a soap opera out of the Zodiac, like and
Speaker 1: it's kind of sensationalized though.
Speaker 3: It's a really good point. You use that word game
Speaker 3: because it comes up in a lot of cult kind
Speaker 3: of environments where they're playing games and it's almost like, I,
Speaker 3: you know, the Finders was the game caller, the head
Speaker 3: of the Finders, which is a cult involving many more
Speaker 3: people than it's publicized, many more important people, but it
Speaker 3: was pre kind of internet, so it didn't have it
Speaker 3: doesn't have the same kind of impact because it happened,
Speaker 3: you know, in the sixties, seventies and eighties and stuff
Speaker 3: like that. But the guy's head was called the game caller,
Speaker 3: you know, so he was playing games with his people,
Speaker 3: and almost these heads of colts like play games with
Speaker 3: their own people. That it's Jim Jones or Hubbard or
Speaker 3: it's like this game playing thing. But so what I
Speaker 3: think that that's part of it, you know, it's part
Speaker 3: of kind of like the the dynamic.
Speaker 1: I guess as well, you could put it even with
Speaker 1: the night Stalker. There's this game the Satanist and actually
Speaker 1: a lot of this goes back to Satanism anyways.
Speaker 3: But that's the cover of the book, by the way.
Speaker 3: I mean, it has this very harrowing picture, but it's
Speaker 3: basically of a satanic crime work. Guy had a pentagram
Speaker 3: carved into his chest. That's the cover of Program to Kill.
Speaker 3: And there used to actually be there was a woman
Speaker 3: who worked in the San Francisco Police PD who studied
Speaker 3: satanic crimes like they were happening all over the Bay Area.
Speaker 3: So there's all kinds of crime that happened around the
Speaker 3: Bay Area that never hit the news and weren't attributed
Speaker 3: to this. So there was definitely this upsurge and the
Speaker 3: cult crimes around that time. Late sixties and seventies.
Speaker 1: Well, what a time to be alive because you have
Speaker 1: the counter culture movement going on, and you have all
Speaker 1: this Laurel Canyon stuff with all these musicians. The Laurel
Speaker 1: Canyon body count is crazy high too, It's like one
Speaker 1: hundred two hundred people from that, So you know, you
Speaker 1: have all this counter culture stuff going on, and then
Speaker 1: you have the introduction of the serial killer and it's
Speaker 1: just they hit us so hard in one decade. If
Speaker 1: you go back and look at it, you're like, how
Speaker 1: did people even make it out alive?
Speaker 3: Like no good point, super scary operation chaos type stuff.
Speaker 3: It really is incredible because it didn't really happen as much.
Speaker 3: These kind of random events didn't happen in the forties
Speaker 3: and fifties, So what right? And that's kind of what
Speaker 3: people have to figure out, Like so many of these
Speaker 3: guys did massive amounts of drugs, LSD and stuff. There's
Speaker 3: all that element to these people and dissociative states, Like
Speaker 3: I mean, that's kind of interesting how prescient McGowan was.
Speaker 3: Like his intro chapter is about dissociation, and he keyed
Speaker 3: into something that's very way ahead of his time. Again,
Speaker 3: like he keys into Esterbrooks, who really is the precursor
Speaker 3: to mk LTRA. Not a lot of people who talk
Speaker 3: about this mind control stuff hit Estbooks. They don't emphasize
Speaker 3: Esterbooks enough as a hypnosis and dissociation from the thirties,
Speaker 3: guys like this is what And we can go back
Speaker 3: to the history of hypnotism through Resputant and Mesmer and
Speaker 3: all these other guys were practicing it back in the
Speaker 3: nineteenth century. But this guy Estrabook is very well that worked.
Speaker 3: Like you had conversation with Jaek or Huber and all
Speaker 3: this stuff in the thirties. So when you see pictures
Speaker 3: of jig Or Hoover in the sixties, he's well aware
Speaker 3: of all of this crazy mind control stuff. And even
Speaker 3: even like McGowan talks about Lee Harvey Oswald as a
Speaker 3: mind control subject, and they all fit this weird thing.
Speaker 3: Like Lee Harvey Oswald was in a hospital for like
Speaker 3: a month or two for a sexually transmitted disease. That
Speaker 3: was what they put on his when has anybody ever
Speaker 3: heard of somebody being in a hospital for that long
Speaker 3: for an STD in the sixties. And he's very strange,
Speaker 3: like he's i mean, his his life, he emulates and
Speaker 3: it goes all the way up to the present.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 3: The second guy he tried to kill Trump's what was
Speaker 3: his name was? Oh, I can't even remember it now,
Speaker 3: But that guy has this weird background where he's in
Speaker 3: like the north Shore of Wow, but able to travel
Speaker 3: around much like Oswald. For Oswald's suspiciously has money to
Speaker 3: go to Swiss Finland, gets into Japan, gets into the
Speaker 3: Soviet Union, gets out, travels like it's so strange.
Speaker 1: There's this picture floating around of Luigi, that guy who
Speaker 1: shut it, and he's got like an outfit on that
Speaker 1: looks just like Lee Harvey Oswald.
Speaker 3: Right. They dressed up the both of them like that,
Speaker 3: the Oswald purp walk well, the cop is in the suit. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So do you think he didn't get to choose his outfit?
Speaker 3: I think they did it intentionally as an insight.
Speaker 1: I thought so too.
Speaker 3: I mean, you can pull that picture up. It's astonishing.
Speaker 3: I don't think that's a mistake at all.
Speaker 1: No, no way.
Speaker 3: The first guy was crooks who didn't make it. In
Speaker 3: the second guy, I don't even remember his name. Uh,
Speaker 3: what's his name? The other guy has all the hallmarks
Speaker 3: of Ryan Ruth. What's his name? But the interesting thing
Speaker 3: if you go back and look at David Chapman, right,
Speaker 3: the alleged killer of John Lennon. He was in and
Speaker 3: out of a hospital. He supposedly worked as an orally
Speaker 3: at a hospital.
Speaker 1: Jeffrey Dahmer, Wow, crazy.
Speaker 3: This guy Ruth was it like literally like a stone's throw,
Speaker 3: like two or three miles away from the hospital where
Speaker 3: Chapman worked at and somehow gets these like the money
Speaker 3: he's like laid on charld payments his his money to
Speaker 3: his ex wife. He doesn't have a real job. He's
Speaker 3: making like little houses for people who are homeless, probably
Speaker 3: not making a lot of money. Somehow can afford to
Speaker 3: go to Balm Beach and wander around and then go
Speaker 3: to Ukraine like he's in Ukraine, Like hey, guys, like
Speaker 3: that's the port. He's got the whole government line down too,
Speaker 3: which is you know, the Ukrainians have been oppressed and
Speaker 3: Zelenski's a freedom fighter. He's out holding his banners like
Speaker 3: he's a tool of the government. It's incredible, like this
Speaker 3: guy if he needs to be ah, it's super suspicious.
Speaker 3: It fits all the Chapman kind of.
Speaker 1: Well, wasn't Uh, there was something about sir hands, Sir
Speaker 1: hand too, like there was something weird about with him.
Speaker 3: Same thing in the hospital two weeks. Nobody knows why
Speaker 3: weird writings. Automatic writing doesn't remember the shooting. The kill shot,
Speaker 3: according to Naguchi, came from behind RFK, not in front. Uh,
Speaker 3: there's more bullets than then. We're in the chamber of
Speaker 3: the gun that sir anser hans, Sir answer, and it's
Speaker 3: clearly seen going to gun ranges and things like that.
Speaker 3: Outside of his Southern Carroll, California area. He was seen
Speaker 3: in northern cal It's strange times. Weird people, the polka
Speaker 3: dot addressed woman, just all kinds, I mean, there's just
Speaker 3: so many suspicious things that all kinds of mk doctors,
Speaker 3: doctors and psycholotrists, psychiatrists around Sir Answer and after arrest,
Speaker 3: which is a real giveaway because they all around the
Speaker 3: same thing happened to Chapman, Patty Hurst, like Patty Hurst
Speaker 3: had like the big they they brought out the big
Speaker 3: time CAAA doctors John Jolly and West Martin Orne Singer.
Speaker 3: There's like a picture of them with Flee Bailey like
Speaker 3: all together, like, oh, this is a jolly bunch of people.
Speaker 3: Knew these are all deep like hardcore you know, government
Speaker 3: agents like government people. Who knows Jolly and West isn't
Speaker 3: the strangest places of all times. So you get back
Speaker 3: to this kind of program to kill kind of mentality
Speaker 3: and all that stuff. And Patty Hurst is really a
Speaker 3: real interesting study in like thought reform, mind control. And
Speaker 3: that's why they were there is because they put her
Speaker 3: into basically isolation thing and abused her right and so
Speaker 3: she goes from the supposed heiress with a lot of
Speaker 3: money too. I forgot what her chain did. Was it
Speaker 3: Tanya or something like that? This revolutionary bank robber, Like,
Speaker 3: how does that happen? Are these guys sophisticated enough to
Speaker 3: make that happen? It makes you wonder like there was
Speaker 3: somebody else telling them what to do?
Speaker 1: You know, mm hmmmm hmm. Well what do you think
Speaker 1: about Like, I know we've talked about it before, but
Speaker 1: we said Satanism is at the base of a lot
Speaker 1: of this stuff, and so do you think that, let's say,
Speaker 1: for example, West Memphis three those kids really did that
Speaker 1: or do you think that they took the fall for it.
Speaker 3: I think they were part of a larger network, and
Speaker 3: I think that there were more people at whatever they
Speaker 3: were doing in other places. I think that they were
Speaker 3: one of the kind of in my opinion is that
Speaker 3: they were probably some of the head people, and Jesse
Speaker 3: was the one who implicated them but left other people out.
Speaker 3: I do believe there were other people involved in that stuff.
Speaker 3: They were networked, and I think they came from a
Speaker 3: family that were into you know, black whatever occult general
Speaker 3: in a general sense. And the like his girlfriend at
Speaker 3: the time, that's like the one of the weirdest things
Speaker 3: is she's involved in that stuff too, and her family,
Speaker 3: like her her aunt was involved in some kind of
Speaker 3: vampire thing about drinking blood in lah outside of La. Yeah,
Speaker 3: so how are these going on? Like this isn't a
Speaker 3: completely different state. So I think that they were just
Speaker 3: of that ilk. But if you read through the court documents,
Speaker 3: he's echoes and all these guys are traveling to Memphis.
Speaker 3: They live outside of Memphis, the city, but they're talking
Speaker 3: to people in Memphis, and there's somebody they mentioned as Lucifer,
Speaker 3: who nobody's ever targeted. There was another guy who talked
Speaker 3: about the group, you know, and even the police were
Speaker 3: like making lists. There's lists in the police documents of
Speaker 3: like other members of the cult like that, they're trying
Speaker 3: to figure out who these guys are newwork with. So
Speaker 3: I think that there's a lot And they used to
Speaker 3: go out to this place called Stone Enge, and it
Speaker 3: was groups of people. It wasn't just like those three,
Speaker 3: So who were the other members of the group. And
Speaker 3: while weren't they implicated And that's another example of the
Speaker 3: police kind of getting their perp and that just they
Speaker 3: enough evidence to get these guys arrested and then they
Speaker 3: you know, I think they were looking for other things,
Speaker 3: but they just didn't didn't seem they have the incentive
Speaker 3: to do a huge roundup. But they interviewed so many people.
Speaker 3: There's so many like interviews that aren't in these place.
Speaker 3: Lame documentaries from Atrio, which are really sham documentaries in
Speaker 3: my opinion.
Speaker 1: But well, you know how people get obsessed with Netflix
Speaker 1: documentaries and HBO documentaries and by the time let's just
Speaker 1: pick a random serial killer. Let's say you watch a
Speaker 1: Ted Bundy documentary. By the end of it, you're one
Speaker 1: hundred percent convinced that he murdered upward of what they
Speaker 1: say is could be like thirty, forty fifty. They don't
Speaker 1: even know, just like you know, countless women, and they
Speaker 1: sell it to you in a way to where the
Speaker 1: cases closed, done, solved, no need to look any they're here,
Speaker 1: And it's like that. It's true for any serial killer.
Speaker 1: They just sell you the story and that's what you're
Speaker 1: made to believe. And when you really start looking into
Speaker 1: it and finding all these inconsistencies, if you were to
Speaker 1: just tell a random person like, well, you know, I
Speaker 1: don't think Ted actually murdered all those girls, It's like,
Speaker 1: it's like blasphemous. Oh how could you say that, you
Speaker 1: know he killed all those people. It's so tragic and sad.
Speaker 1: They don't want to hear about, you know, program to kill.
Speaker 3: No, they don't. They don't want to go that far.
Speaker 3: And I think you have to ask you a question,
Speaker 3: why why do they just tag Berkwoods. Why don't they
Speaker 3: go into the process, even though he's mentioned the process
Speaker 3: in some in one of his interviews. I think in
Speaker 3: jail so it's too disturbing and the connections and the
Speaker 3: crimes that are all associated with these things. Like they
Speaker 3: want to keep it separate, you know, they don't want
Speaker 3: them to see this big network, much like more Terry
Speaker 3: exposed right connect between all the way from east coast
Speaker 3: to the west coast. With the death of Arlest Perry
Speaker 3: on October twelfth, nineteen seventy four, one of the interesting
Speaker 3: things of Program to Kill is for a guy who
Speaker 3: supposedly I think he was an atheist, but McCowan, he's
Speaker 3: into all these dates and stuff, like the occult calendars
Speaker 3: Crowley's mentioned.
Speaker 1: Like he has like Crowley's birthday, Yeah, you know it's yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3: You mentioned Curley like twenty times or something like that.
Speaker 3: But he gets all of these dates and things like
Speaker 3: that in there, which.
Speaker 1: Are really something cult holidays, solstices.
Speaker 3: And on March twenty first, nineteen sixty seven, the Spring Equinox,
Speaker 3: Charles Mills Manson was released from prison. Like, so, yeah,
Speaker 3: which are really I do believe, like the death of
Speaker 3: Arlest Perry, it's not a mistake that it was on
Speaker 3: Croley's birthday.
Speaker 1: No, I don't either. In the so I speak about
Speaker 1: it a little bit, how ritualistic it was. You know,
Speaker 1: she had the altar candle and all of you know.
Speaker 1: He actually in the book he links that one back
Speaker 1: to Leno LaBianca from the Manson because they both had
Speaker 1: like an intricate carving and people don't really know about
Speaker 1: our lists that that well, you know, unless you were
Speaker 1: to read the book. People don't really know about that one.
Speaker 1: But I think they ended up the suspect was someone
Speaker 1: who was in the Manson family, like a disciple that
Speaker 1: broke off or something like that, something like that.
Speaker 3: They call him Manson too. It's been identified as Menser,
Speaker 3: This guy Menzer was involved in The Cotton. Was a
Speaker 3: Cotton movie? Was that movie?
Speaker 1: The Raydon The Cotton?
Speaker 3: Yeah, which overlaps with Rory Raydon, who's also kind of
Speaker 3: in that environment like New York at that time in
Speaker 3: the seventies was very dark. There's a lot of dark
Speaker 3: stuff going on. But uh, yeah, so I think that
Speaker 3: that's true in the Latte LaBianca murders, right, there was
Speaker 3: a fork in, but they they wrote war in a
Speaker 3: way that the W was on almost like it's something
Speaker 3: like you'd see on the cover of Program to Kill,
Speaker 3: where it was a downward triangle and an upward triangle,
Speaker 3: and so that's the way when Harles Perry was laid out,
Speaker 3: they took her pants and so her legs were in
Speaker 3: a triangle and they took pants and made a downward triangle.
Speaker 3: So it's almost like a hexagram or something. And there's
Speaker 3: rumors about her that, I mean, you don't want to go.
Speaker 3: It was that that she was really on the altar.
Speaker 3: That's where she really was, and the police told the
Speaker 3: people she wasn't so that they knew it was like
Speaker 3: sometimes the police when they see a crime scene, they
Speaker 3: get out false information. So if somebody really knew the crime,
Speaker 3: they know exactly how it was staged.
Speaker 1: So it was an ultimate act of like sacrilege rumor
Speaker 1: That's where I mean. It makes sense though, And I
Speaker 1: have this whole grand theory that was presented to me
Speaker 1: by someone else, and I just want to get your
Speaker 1: thoughts about it. So they say that serial killers could
Speaker 1: potentially be just characters. You know, the man Ted Bundy
Speaker 1: and the character Ted Bundy could be two separate people.
Speaker 1: Like the character's name is Ted Bundy, but the real
Speaker 1: guy who's playing Ted Bundy is his name is John
Speaker 1: or something like that. So you can't convict John of
Speaker 1: murder because Ted Bundy is the one who committed the crime.
Speaker 1: And so the theory is that potentially a lot of
Speaker 1: these serial killer victims aren't real at all, and they're
Speaker 1: all characters in this massive, grand theatrical play. That yeah,
Speaker 1: what I mean, what are your thoughts on that? Because
Speaker 1: I think real people die in as a result of
Speaker 1: whatever type of project that the writing on us. I
Speaker 1: do think that innocent people die and they're not just
Speaker 1: all characters.
Speaker 3: I've never heard that, Honestly, I've always thought that they
Speaker 3: were real. So I would have to look into that.
Speaker 3: I'll keep my eye out, But I've read out a
Speaker 3: lot of these details. I've done tons of interviews on Cereal,
Speaker 3: I mean, Bundy and all these guys. Creech. I just
Speaker 3: did one on Thomas Screech, another really strange guy around
Speaker 3: this era who's a hit man and a Satanist who
Speaker 3: new Labay like Richard River Meres. But the deaths all
Speaker 3: seem to be real, you know, it's not like I mean,
Speaker 3: it would be incredible if the whole story was just
Speaker 3: one big fiction and nobody really died, and that they
Speaker 3: faked everything in certain certain of these people's desks, because
Speaker 3: it seems like there's like family members and stuff like that, Like,
Speaker 3: for sure, these guys died in the West Memphis three,
Speaker 3: Like that's for sure, Like their parents are at the
Speaker 3: trials and everything like that. So it would be incredible.
Speaker 3: I mean it would.
Speaker 1: They would entertain that. Maybe even some of them could
Speaker 1: have been I'm.
Speaker 3: Willing to entertain it. One of the interesting thing is,
Speaker 3: like what comes to mind is the Oh it's the
Speaker 3: I can't remember the guy's name right now, but he
Speaker 3: says like a lot of those like are some of
Speaker 3: these people involved in some of these big events are
Speaker 3: crisis actors?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, yeah, like Leanna when.
Speaker 3: Like this woman who's coming out talking about even today
Speaker 3: about this bird flu nonsense, She's shown up at weird places.
Speaker 1: Yeah, what's going on with that? Anyways, it's just another sigh.
Speaker 1: Do you think? So?
Speaker 3: The timing is incredible, Right before the election, before the
Speaker 3: new whole new administration shows up, they pull the stunt.
Speaker 3: But I don't I don't think people are gonna fall.
Speaker 1: It was announced by a crisis actor.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think so. Wow my opinion, Yeah, go look
Speaker 3: her up, like she showed up at least it was
Speaker 3: either the Boston bombing or something like that. Like some
Speaker 3: of these people are showing up at multiple different plays
Speaker 3: like on TV, like are they state assets or what's
Speaker 3: going on? So those are these are fake? Like I
Speaker 3: think some of these people are stone called fakes and
Speaker 3: they just dredge them out or pay for them and
Speaker 3: train them. And I don't you know, so many of
Speaker 3: these people like are agents of influence. They're not real
Speaker 3: authentic things, and so much in the old media really
Speaker 3: are agents of influence. Like I was very naive, like thinking, well,
Speaker 3: these people had normal careers and they took a journal
Speaker 3: and journalism degree. Now these guys were brought up and
Speaker 3: trained and put in the right place and me it
Speaker 3: made to become agents of influence, fake social media presence.
Speaker 3: Everything's fake about them because they're being propped up by
Speaker 3: either a wealthy person or by the government. And there's
Speaker 3: a lot of them, Like they surround Joe Rogan like
Speaker 3: it's incredible, like whoa years a rounded by like really
Speaker 3: heavy intel, dark agents, dark propaganda's black propagandists. And that's
Speaker 3: really incredible because you see the movement from the traditional
Speaker 3: media to this kind of newer media, and it's it's scary.
Speaker 1: Well, they they actually promote Joe Rogan, Like.
Speaker 3: Why why why is he getting Why is this natural?
Speaker 3: Is it because he's a good medium for their voice? Right?
Speaker 3: So these very I'm not going to name their names,
Speaker 3: people will know these names. They're very well known. But
Speaker 3: Joe Rogan gets promoted because he lets them use him
Speaker 3: as a kind of antenna for their ideas without questioning him. Munch.
Speaker 3: That's that's very telling. How does Joe Rogan come in?
Speaker 3: Like he's obviously very clever, but how does this guy
Speaker 3: become the number one podcaster? Like? I think it's his background,
Speaker 3: But I've done I've done a show called There's Something
Speaker 3: Funny About Joe Rogan and it's kind of like it's
Speaker 3: close friends. There's a lot of occultism there. Really, Yeah,
Speaker 3: there's not that much of a separation between some of
Speaker 3: his friends and Damian Ecles.
Speaker 1: Yeah you didn't know, William, you're killing me.
Speaker 3: No, that guy who he just had on with the
Speaker 3: whole el Elf outfit, I can't even remember his name
Speaker 3: right now. He had this guy on the I think
Speaker 3: it was called Midnight Clomax was his show, and Damian
Speaker 3: is on there he's promoting him, And then they had
Speaker 3: an interplay. Somebody sent it to me, and it's like, uh, oh, man,
Speaker 3: if he was unjustly committed, you should get some money
Speaker 3: and pay out. Like he was a sympathetic take on Eccles.
Speaker 3: And it's interesting too because Eckles, like they did two
Speaker 3: hours of Eccles on Tim Poole, who's friends with Rogan,
Speaker 3: and they did the same thing. It was just a
Speaker 3: complete joke. I called a colossal l in the culture war. Gosh.
Speaker 3: I wish I could remember. This guy's name is supposedly Comedian.
Speaker 3: But they also Eccles his close friends with Amanda Knox.
Speaker 3: There's pictures of them together, and Amanda Knox was on
Speaker 3: Rogan and he never asked. Rogan didn't ask for any
Speaker 3: incisive questionestions. He just actually let her walk all over him.
Speaker 3: It's very interesting because he's not always passive. Sometimes he
Speaker 3: fights back and pushes back, but in that case, he
Speaker 3: was just like, oh, yeah, you've been un She was
Speaker 3: convicted of colonia. She was convicted of the I think
Speaker 3: the Italian version of defamation, throwing the black guy under
Speaker 3: the bus, like she was trying to like literally blame
Speaker 3: the black guy. And I don't think she's ever paid him. Yeah. So,
Speaker 3: I mean I've got pictures of Eccles, and I mean
Speaker 3: all these characters like Douglas is mentioned in this book
Speaker 3: and in Program to Kill and Eccles and Douglas and
Speaker 3: Berlinger and on this and what's her face? Amanda Knox
Speaker 3: altogether I called it the poor Horsemen of the Apocalypse.
Speaker 3: What yes, Oh yeah, no, it's bad.
Speaker 1: Oh god, Well what do you think about people like
Speaker 1: Alex Joe Jones?
Speaker 3: Right, I mean there's a problem there too, Like I'm
Speaker 3: telling you, these people are influence agents. Ah what was
Speaker 3: the guy's name? Now, I'm just gonna like, shoot, yeah,
Speaker 3: I mean, yeah, there's people who know more than me.
Speaker 3: There's a problem with Jones too. I mean this that's
Speaker 3: it gets really dark, like these are h.
Speaker 1: Mm hmmm.
Speaker 3: Show that's bothered me to figure out what this guy's
Speaker 3: name was Midnight something, and I mean it's midnight special?
Speaker 1: Was it on? Joe Rogan?
Speaker 3: The guy's name I forgot. He did some show. It
Speaker 3: wasn't Midnight Climaxes, Midnight something else.
Speaker 1: And it was a comedy show supposedly.
Speaker 3: M you said, let me see if I can find it.
Speaker 3: Let me see if I can find his name. It
Speaker 3: was a recent recent guest, Duncan Trussell. Ah, Okay, Duncan
Speaker 3: Trussell was on December twenty fifth for Christmas. But this
Speaker 3: guy did a show with Damian Apples, Damian Apples.
Speaker 1: Oh my God, besties.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Duncan Truss Damian that he had him on a
Speaker 3: show twenty twenty Midnight Gospel was the name. And then
Speaker 3: and he was on a show called Damian Eccles aka
Speaker 3: fishpool Man.
Speaker 1: So that you got all these weirdos hanging out together.
Speaker 1: And then you know, anytime I tell somebody I have
Speaker 1: like a conspiracy theory podcast or something like that, they're like, oh,
Speaker 1: like Joe Rogan, Like he's.
Speaker 3: The staple, He's the staple. Wow, because he's doing a
Speaker 3: terrible job. I mean, the term the conspiracy theory is
Speaker 3: just like a joke term. Like nothing I talk about
Speaker 3: is theoretical. I do a lot of speculation and make
Speaker 3: connections maybe, but like you can look all this stuff up.
Speaker 3: So why are people doing real investigative journalism, that's the
Speaker 3: real question. And why why is the public accepting these
Speaker 3: talks like they're real investigative journalism when they're not, Like
Speaker 3: the real investigative journalists are very few, and a lot
Speaker 3: of the ones who really get it, they who are
Speaker 3: real investigative journalists, like the guy who did Gary Webb recently.
Speaker 3: I think it was his death, Like you get the worst,
Speaker 3: like they come after you if you're not part of
Speaker 3: the real group, like whoa like it's it's it can be. Yeah,
Speaker 3: you're alone because most of these other people they're covered
Speaker 3: they like I mean, like for example, I'll just use
Speaker 3: one example. He's been on Ruban Ben Shapiro his best
Speaker 3: friend or his buddy. Is that Yahoo? Right, So these
Speaker 3: guys are connected. They're gonna tell the story of ten
Speaker 3: to seven like it wasn't a black ath mm hmm.
Speaker 1: I mean it's dangerous too because they're so influential to
Speaker 1: so many people.
Speaker 3: And I can't believe people trust these guys.
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I know, I know, I know, I know.
Speaker 1: They even put like their health in everything, every aspect
Speaker 1: of their life in the hands of these people.
Speaker 3: Don't Rogan has a health thing, and it's I know,
Speaker 3: I know he's a macho guy and he does MMA
Speaker 3: and you know, so this is almost like the Hugh
Speaker 3: Hefner in a way of our generation, Like you have
Speaker 3: to was the kind of model like, oh he's got
Speaker 3: the babes and there's good looking chicks and we're living
Speaker 3: the you know, lifestyle. I think that he was a
Speaker 3: great influencer tied to Kinsey, which is very disturbing, but
Speaker 3: the tie to Crowley. So then you have Rogan like pictured,
Speaker 3: you know, doing the cornudo with the grandson.
Speaker 4: Of uh huh and a big time UFO exponent like
Speaker 4: right behind him is the triangle with the UFO would
Speaker 4: just bring you a cultural thing.
Speaker 3: So he's on board with that. That side out that's
Speaker 3: a I mean, I've done shows on that.
Speaker 1: I don't believe in U and the UFO thing. I
Speaker 1: don't think it's I mean, that's just the most bizarre
Speaker 1: stuff that I've seen people start getting on the proof
Speaker 1: right right.
Speaker 3: Show uf you every picture they bring up or the
Speaker 3: guy who was also on Rogan from Blink one eighty
Speaker 3: two DeLong like he should the frisbee on there, like
Speaker 3: it was real like for this, come on, this is
Speaker 3: the new religion. Though, this is the new religion they're
Speaker 3: they're they're promoting and is on board with the whole
Speaker 3: like uh D m T and ayahuasca stuff. This is
Speaker 3: the new drug era.
Speaker 1: So.
Speaker 3: Why is this that? Why is that out there? Why
Speaker 3: is he? I mean, the guy's brought the bill dollars
Speaker 3: is incredible.
Speaker 1: And I used to watch him on Fear Factor and
Speaker 1: I thought he was just a stupid guy who hosted
Speaker 1: TV shows. You know, Now he's like one of the
Speaker 1: most influential people on the planet.
Speaker 3: He is the most influential. He and the bro podcast
Speaker 3: helped get Trump over the finish line. Like all those
Speaker 3: guys jd Vance who I don't even know what his
Speaker 3: real name is, and Trump were on those shows. It
Speaker 3: was Rogan, Dylan and Theovonne, like very influential shows. Those
Speaker 3: are what pushed kind of the men like, oh, we
Speaker 3: got to get out there because what's her face wouldn't
Speaker 3: go on those shows. She can't really talk extemporaneously anyway.
Speaker 3: But yeah, so I think, I mean this this was
Speaker 3: changed world history in a lot of what it's unbelievable
Speaker 3: influence world history, these kind of podcasts with not a
Speaker 3: lot of well, like I said, it's just the same
Speaker 3: thing we're talking about, how much influence is behind the
Speaker 3: scene influencing these guys.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's like you said, there's not a lot
Speaker 1: of independent journalism out there, I would consider myself to
Speaker 1: be at least trying to some degree to put some
Speaker 1: pieces together.
Speaker 3: Me too, Me too.
Speaker 1: And before we wrap up, because I know we've been
Speaker 1: on for about an hour, I do have to ask
Speaker 1: you one more thing about Program to Kill that I'm
Speaker 1: curious about, and it is the chapter on John Benet.
Speaker 1: So recently John Ramsey has come out and he said
Speaker 1: there's this new break in the case and they got
Speaker 1: new evidence, and he's going on all these talk shows
Speaker 1: to talk about it. And I think you and I
Speaker 1: would both agree that they're never going to solve that
Speaker 1: because we know what really happened to John Benet.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it was Cyril Wett said that she
Speaker 3: was being abused. There was evidence to arrest right there.
Speaker 3: So how does that key into like some kind of
Speaker 3: murderer outside of the family. What's going on? So then
Speaker 3: problems with that case. The thing is is that he's.
Speaker 3: One of the things about McGowan and why he will
Speaker 3: stand the test of time is that he's his analysis
Speaker 3: is almost always right, like the King into Esterbrooks and
Speaker 3: seeing in this darker pattern of going on, dissociative states
Speaker 3: and this operation cast and all these Cie doctors and
Speaker 3: the questions, like I think that he was right about
Speaker 3: John Bay too, and there's really I mean they had
Speaker 3: this new documentary on Netflix too, right, and it's like.
Speaker 1: The one that's blaming the brother.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well no, I think that that one they got sued.
Speaker 3: That was a different one. There's a more recent one
Speaker 3: that just came out, but I think I don't know
Speaker 3: that album.
Speaker 1: It might be I think I might have saw it
Speaker 1: actually on HBO or something like that. And yeah, they're
Speaker 1: all they always pointed outside the family, right or the
Speaker 1: little brother did it or like something ridiculous like that.
Speaker 1: But it's like, was the little brother rapinger? Really? That's
Speaker 1: because it's like you said that the I guess it
Speaker 1: was the autopsy report there was clear signs of sexual abuse.
Speaker 1: So I mean, are they going to tie that to
Speaker 1: the little brother? That's it just doesn't It never makes sense.
Speaker 1: None of the piece is at up.
Speaker 3: Dude. Ciarrah Weckt was sadly he passed away, but he
Speaker 3: did such great work even on The Spiley Face Killers too,
Speaker 3: Like one of the victims was Dakota James because he's
Speaker 3: in Pittsburgh, was in Pittsburgh. But another guy, you got
Speaker 3: it right all the time, like like super bright guy,
Speaker 3: Like it's really hard to get a JD or like
Speaker 3: past the bar and stuff. But he had a bar
Speaker 3: degree and a medical degree, but like he I mean,
Speaker 3: you have to take him kind of facebaut So all
Speaker 3: this other propaganda and all this other strange stuff, you
Speaker 3: have questions about it. What's your take on.
Speaker 1: John Maney, Well, I think that her parents were involved
Speaker 1: in some crazy stuff. I mean with the access graphics
Speaker 1: thing in John Ramsey, he got, you know, a huge
Speaker 1: bonus for Christmas, and then I don't know, the handwriting matches.
Speaker 1: Patsy and their friends, the Whites, they're into some weird
Speaker 1: stuff and they had their kids like in these weird
Speaker 1: pageant circles and stuff. And the pageant thing on its
Speaker 1: own is enough for me to think there was something
Speaker 1: else going on, because if you actually go and look,
Speaker 1: there are no record of those pageants ever existing outside
Speaker 1: of John Bennet. So it's like this underground pageant world
Speaker 1: stuff and like the kittie porn stuff, and you know
Speaker 1: the Wonderland raids, Like a couple of people turned up
Speaker 1: with pictures of John Bennet during the Wonderland I'm telling you, William,
Speaker 1: it's it goes deep and like for them to keep
Speaker 1: drudging it up and like, oh, John Ramsey's back in
Speaker 1: the news again because they've got this break in the case.
Speaker 1: It's like they're never going to solve that. They're just
Speaker 1: like bringing it up to remind you, Oh, look at
Speaker 1: this little girl and it's unsolved. And I don't even know.
Speaker 1: It's just a big joke, a big game, like I
Speaker 1: said before, But it's.
Speaker 3: These networks, like we started off, mc martin was probably network.
Speaker 3: There's all some of the right right, right, and even
Speaker 3: I think McGowan mentions tunnels had Opera interviewed that guy Steiner,
Speaker 3: Like some of that stuff is verified and crazy weird
Speaker 3: stuff was going on, weird magical hats like and then
Speaker 3: it's like that you get into trauma based mind control
Speaker 3: and SRA and it's like that they're traumatizing the kids, right,
Speaker 3: and they've been proved like some of these were. There
Speaker 3: was one it was the witch hunt narrative, right, I
Speaker 3: can't remember the name, but the book, Like some of
Speaker 3: these have been verified. So like some of the stuff,
Speaker 3: like these child care things were the opposite of care,
Speaker 3: child uncare places there was one and I think it
Speaker 3: was Fuster was his.
Speaker 1: Name, Yeah, Frank Fuster Country Walk Babysitting.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know they bust like they had the evidence
Speaker 3: and they were. They'll deny it and call it satanic
Speaker 3: panic or something like that or have some turn.
Speaker 1: But explain to me how the Country Walk Babysitting Service
Speaker 1: was the subsidiary of Walt Disney Company. Like, you can't
Speaker 1: tell me that's not by design, you know, that's really so.
Speaker 1: But anyways, William, thanks so much for joining me. I've
Speaker 1: really enjoyed our conversation. And if you could just let
Speaker 1: the listeners know if they haven't already, you know, dove
Speaker 1: into William Ramsey Investigates. It's one of my favorite podcasts.
Speaker 1: But where can they find it?
Speaker 3: Uh, you can find it anywhere our tunes, Spotify. I've
Speaker 3: done a lot of shows on kind of mind control
Speaker 3: and things like that. I had like little carve out
Speaker 3: called the d Hypno Program, and I cover a lot
Speaker 3: of the stuff like this is real stuff like Esterbrooks
Speaker 3: that's mentioned in this book, some of these other case
Speaker 3: and I've got some kind of on my batter circles
Speaker 3: I'm trying to get out and that are on the subject.
Speaker 3: I think it's important to understand, and it goes all
Speaker 3: the way up to the present. This kind of kind
Speaker 3: of take a shot at Trump has all the indicators
Speaker 3: and some of these other guys, this guy Luigi whatever.
Speaker 3: It's very strange that somebody would take such a radical
Speaker 3: turn who had a very promising life. I mean, you
Speaker 3: are the the valedictorian of your private school, so this
Speaker 3: is kind of like an elite thing. How does somebody
Speaker 3: go from that and goes through this behavior modification or
Speaker 3: behavioral change into and I don't even know, how would
Speaker 3: you know that the CEO is walking.
Speaker 1: Out of a hotel at seven right?
Speaker 3: That's the thing that's like, why doesn't anybody ask that question?
Speaker 3: I would be like, if you would think the killer
Speaker 3: would be like, I'm gonna get him because he's going
Speaker 3: to this meeting. I know he's going to be there
Speaker 3: for you know, so I'm gonna wait outside this meeting
Speaker 3: or whatever. How does he know he's leaving at seven o'clock? Anyway,
Speaker 3: So there's a lot of real questions. So a lot
Speaker 3: of the stuff if you look deeper, who gets kind
Speaker 3: of disturbing, So you can look into that. It's William Ramsay,
Speaker 3: gotta say it's all. My books are on Amazon five books,
Speaker 3: and then you can also watch them for free on
Speaker 3: my Patreon.
Speaker 1: William Ramseys Well, thank you so much, William, I really
Speaker 1: appreciate it, and thanks to all the listeners out there.
Speaker 1: We will catch you on the next one.
Speaker 2: City Whom is it pretty and the whole for me,
Speaker 2: Whom in the darkness, Whome on the highway, Whome is in.
Speaker 1: That way, who will never be.
Speaker 4: Burn out? Stay?
Speaker 1: But after night.
Speaker 4: I can't say is a due put up a fake?
Speaker 2: I'm live, a locking, a love, devil his due. I'm
Speaker 2: burn burn you, I'm murder out burning you.