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Speaker 1: What is a fellow sick?

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Speaker 2: Was I in Dan Falley coming at you with another

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twenty twenty four, twenty twenty five NBA look at We're

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onto the Dallas Mavericks, which means I get to speak

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with Kirk Henderson. He is the co host of Pod Maverick.

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He also does lots and lots of stuff with MAVs

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Muddy Ball. Follow him on the Twitter machine or X

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machine whatever at Kirk series face that's at k A

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R K S E R I O U S F

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A s CE excuse me the link and handle and

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all that stuff, and as well to his podcast Pod Maverick. Again,

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I love their post game stuff. I'm not a big

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post game guy when it comes to single teams. I

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like the you know, more of a macro trends guy.

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But him and his co hosts, I believe Josh, they

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do a fantastic job. But Kirk with the postgame stuff specifically,

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I love listening to that and checking it out, getting

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into a lot of stuff Dallas Mavericks.

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Speaker 1: Excited for it. Hope you enjoy it and as remember,

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if you knew around.

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Speaker 2: These parts, YouTube, Spotify, Apple, please subscribe across all platforms.

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Ratings and reviews are great. They help us a ton

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on Spotify and Apple. By the way, five stars only,

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and if you've done all those things, tell.

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Speaker 1: People about us.

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Speaker 2: Share the episodes on social media, let people us know,

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help us continue to grow the community. You can also

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support us pick up some Hardwoe Knox Sickle Mode collection

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merch is now live.

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Speaker 1: But that's enough out of me.

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Speaker 2: Let's get to talking all things Dallas Mavericks with the

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one and only Kirk Kirk. Welcome back. Thank you so

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much for coming back. I really appreciate it to come

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on and talk some mas with me.

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Speaker 1: How the heck are you doing? Man?

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Speaker 3: I'm okay. It's very odd to be heading into a

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season like content because there's usually all these pain points

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with the middling team. But I've just enjoyed kind of

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the following after the Mavericks made the finals and just

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looking forward to what's ahead because they've had a solid

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offseason without much that a man like me can complain about.

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Speaker 1: That. Look, that's awesome, and that's kind of where I

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want to start.

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Speaker 2: I don't really like rehashing what happened last season, but

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they remade themselves at the trade deadline.

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Speaker 1: That sparks their finals run.

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Speaker 2: What were just sort of your biggest takeaways or watching that, like,

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you know, coming out of that leading into this offseason

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and next season. Just what was something that like just

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kind of stood out about how much they did shift

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because of those moves that they made at the deadline.

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Speaker 3: Well, the moves were part of it, but it also

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came following the change and rule interpretation, and if we're

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honest with ourselves, the Mavericks played played defense the way

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the Legion of Boom Seahawks used to play defense, where

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you can't call every foul, and the Mavericks were a

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rough and tumble, unbelievably physical defense for like the last

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fifteen games of the season right into the playoffs, and

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that was really the thing which projected them to go

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to go as far as they did. You know, Jason

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Kidd is a I think he's a coach who is

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very aware of how long the season is and he

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only knows he has so many buttons he can push,

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and the Mavericks have made it. I learned something that

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the Mavericks that made a move at every trade deadline

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for the past seven years, so organizationally, they value mixing

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it up and so I think, you know, the two

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things came together in a confluence of events that allowed

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the Mavericks to get as far as they did last

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year in the playoffs.

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Speaker 2: Which by the way, I was not a fan of

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their trade deadline at the time. So I got my

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come up, and I mean very shortly after that with

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how well.

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Speaker 3: I mean, it's like when you get a guy like

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like PJ. Tucker is just your consummate? Is he way

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too high on the tone poll or is this franchise

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a disaster kind of move? Because I wasn't high on

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the move either, I mean not PJ. Tucker, PJ Washington,

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and he just ended up really leaning into his role.

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He's got a great frame, He's six seven with a

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huge wingspan, and he played really well. And then the

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vertical athleticism of Daniel Gafford and just sort of the

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the you know, stereotypical junkyard dog mentality really gave Dallas

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something that they needed because Derek Lively is the future,

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but I think he needed someone to help carry the load,

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and that was really impressive the way it worked out.

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Speaker 2: So you look at what they've done this offseason, and

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it's been, like I don't want to say necessarily more stuff,

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but it was like a significant amount of stuff for

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a team that just made the Finals. I feel like

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we don't see that much action from a team that's

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coming off of finals appearance.

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Speaker 1: What did you think about their.

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Speaker 2: Entire offseason process and even like factory and not just

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the additions, but of course you do lose Derek Jones

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Junior as part of that too.

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Speaker 3: So it's fascinating Derek Jones Junior was signed as he

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was the fifteenth guy signed. Yeah, I remember where I

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was when it was happening because I was driving to

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see my parents and I was in the middle of Oklahoma,

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and I'm like, well, a minimum deal. This guy opted

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out of a minimum deal to sign in Dallas. It's

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an upside play and he played a little bit, but

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he really didn't settle into his role until the final

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half of the year. And while I do think the

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Mavericks are going to miss him, I think that he

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was definitely a whole like the he was accentuated by

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playing with Luca, and I don't think he's going to

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be near as well utilized though James is very impressive

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out there with with Los Angeles, but the off season

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this year was interesting Klay Thompson is. If anything, it

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just sort of shares a bit of a signal shift

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because the Mavericks. He's got to be one of the

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biggest name free agents the Mavericks have ever signed. And

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while it does seem he signed largely out of a

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sense of spite at recent information indicates that Kyrie Irving

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played a pretty big part in his just in conversations

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with Klay Thompson, which I find very interesting because the Mavericks,

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you know, they've had Dirk and they've had Luca, but

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they've never had a true recruiter, just a cool guy,

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and Kyrie has sort of served that function. So you

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get a guy like him, you get Naji Marshall from

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the New Orleans Pelicans, and it's always interesting when a

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guy leaves one team and goes to another. You tend

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to see fans either really bag on the guy the

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way the Mavericks did with poor Tim Hardway June, which

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drives me crazy because I kind of like Timmy or

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you see him kind of effusive with their praise, and

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Pelicans fans by and large like this guy is. You're

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gonna like him. He's gonna bring a no nonsense attitude

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and a sense of physicality to defense, to defense that

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the Mavericks are really going to lean into. And then

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that doesn't even you know, address the Quentin Grimes situation,

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and I I just am am. He he replaces Tim

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Hardaway is the most handsome Maverick, which is incredibly important.

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The very the handsomeess power rankings is always important for

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a team, and I just think he's gonna have a

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lot of opportunity. You know, they moved on from Josh Green,

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which was a player who I just will I just

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wasn't my cup of tea. And yeah, so I just

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so many things happens where I end up in a

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place where it's like, all right, this team is is.

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I'm curious to see how they're gonna be in the

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regular season, but in a seven game playoff series, they're

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They're terrifying for most teams.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it feels like you mentioned that Jason Kinosi has

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like a limited number of buttons to push in the

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regular season. It feels like, just stylistically, now, I love

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Nause Marshall. I think Quenton Grimes, I mean, his first

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two years in the league, he was hitting threes and

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defending his ass off, and so if he's healthy, I

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thought that was probably one of the more underrated and

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to get him in the Tim Hardaway junior salary thing,

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I don't really understand what Detroit was necessarily thinking there.

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So I really like where they're at. But when you

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look at someone like Klay Thompson, what do you make

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of his overall fit, Like, do you think this signal

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is maybe a shift of what some of the stuff

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the MAVs are going to do offensively? Do you even

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do at least trust that he'll buy into a more

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limited role, because if you go back to what was

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happening in Golden State, like he had a pretty shitty

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shot selection towards the end of his time there, I

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felt like he was struggling to just adapt to his

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new role, the role they wanted him to play. Is

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that just easier by virtue of the ball dominance in

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Dallas from Luka and Kyrie, or just to being a

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new environment. Just what do you sort of make of

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that fit specifically?

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Speaker 3: Well, I think that the Mavericks need is another guy

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who could actively dribble. Dante Exum filled the role for

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parts of the year, but I just get the sense

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that Jason Kidd doesn't trust him. Clay Thompson can handle

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the ball and can pass the ball. And you know,

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there's Jared Duban of Last Night in Basketball put together

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a really good compilation of Clay's passing to Golden State bigs.

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And with all due respect to Golden State bigs, they're

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not Derek Lively. So I can't wait to see him

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in some pick and roll action and doing some different things.

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I think, you know, I think the Matvericks are trying

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to do things that will get the ball out of

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Luca's hands in different playmaker's hands to where he just

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doesn't need to have a thirty six percent usage rate,

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to where he can have a thirty two percent usage rate.

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And like we're talking like three possessions a game, we're

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not talking about that much stuff. But I think that

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Clay will find a way to get his shots. One

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of the things that is woefully misunderstood about Luca from

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people who think he is a ballhog, don't They don't

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get that he wants to make the pass. He loves

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the highlight pass way more than the circus shot. And

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right now, if you're just talking about the Mavericks in

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a broad situation of Clay's starting with Kyrie Irving, PJ Washington, Luka, Doncic,

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Derek Lively. The guy you have to sag off on

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right now is PJ. Washington, who ended up punishing the

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Kahoma City Thunder. And so it's like that's and then

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they've only added more shooting here. So it's like on paper,

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and particularly in a regular season game where teams aren't

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really scouting things to the nails, the Mavericks are gonna

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have the ability to score the ball a lot of

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different ways, and so I think Clay's shots will be there.

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It wouldn't shock me if he waxes and wanes. I mean,

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he's played a lot the last two years. I think

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the average fan doesn't really understand that he came back

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from that two year break injury break. It ended up

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playing quite a lot of basketball. So he'll still play

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a lot this year. He'll have his opportunities. I'm a

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little I'm a little worried about role stuff, but not

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because he's going to be a four banana, because I

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think he kind of already was. It's more of a

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how his kid work with him, Because I don't think

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he responds Klay Thompson was responding to Kerr anymore, and

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I'm curious to see how that will work out.

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Speaker 2: I also do think that just being in like a

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new environment and having to be the new guy probably

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helps him where I've mentioned this before on this podcast anyway,

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that seeing Draymond Green and Steph Curry not really shrinking

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importance in Golden State. When you came up with those guys,

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won four titles with those guys, it's probably just like

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tougher to stomach and reconcile, So I feel.

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Speaker 1: Like it'll be smoother.

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Speaker 2: The one thing I would be curious though, and this

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isn't an insult him. He's older, he's had those two

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major injuries. He's just not even close to what he

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was defensively. And so if we assume that he's gonna

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start and at least play like starter level minutes or

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close to it, do you think when he's playing with

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Kyrie and Luca, that the MAVs have enough defensively to

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to insulate him and to optimize that line.

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Speaker 1: No, No, okay.

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Speaker 3: And that's where the kind of mad scientist element of

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a regular season comes into play, where we see what

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kid tries. I think if you you bank in for

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both Luca and Kyrie, both of them missing fifteen games each,

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I think we'll see a lot of lineups where Klay

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Thompson is like the second best scorer on the floor,

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which does allow Dallas to play a Naji Marshall, a

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Clinton Grimes and really try to basically patchworks the defense together.

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I do think they're gonna have to add, you know,

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they're just gonna have to ask Clay to guard more.

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And I'm gonna be curious to see how you know,

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he really hasn't shown it the last two years, but

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I'm the words rose not very good and there's elements

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of for me if if the situation is different and

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are the and are the Mavericks able to cover different

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things with him schematically, I'm I'm curious, Like he's not

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the he's not the defender that that made him one

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of the seventy five best players ever. Like that's that's

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something that Mavericks fans are gonna have to come with.

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But one thing is true, He's still six to seven.

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And if you're putting out a line where Kyrie is

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the smallest guy or even like say you exchange Kyrie

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with you know, Grimes for periods like the Mats have

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a big team, Yeah, they're huge. There there's something to

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be said just for guys taking up space. Yeah, you

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know it's it's that's not obviously the NBA level defense,

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but against you know, the twenty of the thirty NBA teams,

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you can sometimes get away with things like that.

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Speaker 2: You mentioned that I just find interesting, So I want

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to ask you about it that maybe taking Luke off

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the ball a little bit more, he said, not a lot,

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like a few possessions of game. What does it look

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like in those situations where a lot of the times

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now if he's off the ball kind of feels like

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does he still just not kind of do anything?

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Speaker 1: Is he chilling?

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Speaker 3: No, that's a great question. I've been thinking about this lot.

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So Adam Adas of d NVR went on Andrew Sharp's podcast,

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God What is It? And they talked and he talked

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about how basketball in the NBA level is really a

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series of three man actions, two man actions or one

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on one you're not really getting you know, full on

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five out like offenses where guys are moving all the time.

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Where the Mavericks have done, is they just kind of

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plant Luca off ball and they let him stand there,

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and he's just let him just so he can rest.

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I personally be as a basketball fan, I need him

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involved in the basketball sets without the ball, because that's

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what causes chaos, Like when Kyrie Irving sets Luca a

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screen that freaks defenses out. So Luca needs to be

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setting a few more screens himself. Luca needs to be

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doing you know, the occasional you know, cut from the wing,

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like just different stuff to where you can make the

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defense panic a little bit more. And that's on him

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as much as anybody else, because I do understand, you know,

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it's the middle of the third quarter, game forty two.

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You're tired, and you just want to take a couple

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of possessions off. But for the Mavericks to be the

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team that they need to be, or that they're trying

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to be and aspiring to be, they have to win

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fifty five regular season games, which means Luca doing some

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stuff that he probably isn't super thrilled about. But that's,

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you know, that's what being the best player on your

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team means. And so I hope he does play off ballmore.

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Speaker 2: A lot of the reason to get back to Quentin

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Grimes for a second that I was okay with them

298
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losing Derek Jones Junior is because you bring in someone

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like Quenton Grimes and you have that guy who can

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defend like probably close to one through three, but can

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definitely handle just like.

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Speaker 1: Oh, the other team's smaller advantage creator.

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Speaker 2: But I was just wondering, like to do the MAS

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view him the same way, like is he coming in

305
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with sort of like, well, we're gonna give you this role?

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Are we going to see like, oh, maybe they will

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go to Dante Xen a little bit more? Jayden Hardy

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or Spencer did what he is.

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Speaker 3: It's so fascinating because then you get into sort of

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the GM side of this, where you have Jayden Hardy,

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Quenton Grimes, and Dante Exam all essentially on the last

312
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year of their deals one year each, and so each

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guy has a real incentive to do their absolute best

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and earn something. I mean, I know, I think is

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last year and he could be a restricted free agent,

316
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but it's you know, it's when you make money. Making

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money in the NBA is is important to these guys.

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It's why they're playing ressional basketball. So I'm not sure

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how they view rhymes because, if anything, I think they

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have too many choices, and they might. When you look

321
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at the roster, I could see kid playing as many

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as eleven guys some nights pretty regularly, which is weird.

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I know, you don't get down to playoff rostersun til

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you get you know, seven, eight at most, but they

325
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just have some optionality there, and I find that I

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find that interesting.

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Speaker 2: Yeah they do, and yeah, eleven guys is sort of

328
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wild to just have even during the regular season that

329
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you think deserve minutes. Derek Lively favored around these parts.

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What stood out or most impressed you about what he

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did as a as a rookie in Dallas.

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Speaker 3: Well, I need to have a bit of a mea

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culpa because on last year's podcast, I was like, we're

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not here to talk about Derek Clively, We're here to

335
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talk about Olivia Maxwell's prosper and I was wrong. Lively

336
00:16:00,840 --> 00:16:03,120
is like an ever evolving Pokemon, and I have no

337
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idea what his final form is going to be. But

338
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everyone should be very, very afraid. He is so big

339
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because he's seven foot two and two forty like he

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outweighs chet holmgrin By twenty five pounds and it starts,

341
00:16:18,120 --> 00:16:20,480
and that matters over the course of the series. In

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00:16:20,480 --> 00:16:24,559
particulars wear a guy out his evolution as to someone

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00:16:24,720 --> 00:16:27,919
who could because he couldn't set screens at Summer League

344
00:16:27,960 --> 00:16:31,039
in twenty twenty three, comes in, he plays almost immediately.

345
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He doesn't have the foul trouble I would have expected

346
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he had a little bit of. He still only played,

347
00:16:37,360 --> 00:16:39,440
you know, twenty eighth minutes a game, but he was

348
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so wildly impactful and you know, I don't know if

349
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you remember. I think it was against the Celtics, the

350
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one game the Mavericks won where he hit a corner

351
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three off like a wild play and everyone was freaking out,

352
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and it's like, this is the future. The Mavericks are

353
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basically saying he's not. He will never shoot threes for them,

354
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But I love watching him operate like a seven foot

355
00:17:02,200 --> 00:17:06,240
to Draymond Green. That is what I think his ultimate, psychotic,

356
00:17:06,519 --> 00:17:09,559
unbelievable ceiling could be if he were to ever reach it.

357
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He is so smart on offense and so capable on defense.

358
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I just couldn't have picked a better player to play

359
00:17:19,440 --> 00:17:21,039
with Luba Kancic. He's amazing.

360
00:17:21,720 --> 00:17:24,079
Speaker 2: Is there anything specifically an area of development, or whether

361
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that you're just tracking or monitoring most closely, like throughout

362
00:17:27,240 --> 00:17:31,400
year two, and we also re just assuming he'll start now.

363
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Speaker 3: I think the starting is there, but I also think

364
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that he's such a team player to where he sees

365
00:17:37,599 --> 00:17:42,000
he is willing to sort of do what's best in

366
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terms of areas of improvement. I think it honestly depends

367
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on how teams guard Luka. Okay, coming out of the

368
00:17:49,160 --> 00:17:51,480
All Star Break last year, the Mavericks lost like six

369
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of seven. Like I was calling for kids head. We

370
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were all super pissed. What teams were doing during that

371
00:17:57,400 --> 00:18:00,799
time was saying, we are not leaving Luca. We're not

372
00:18:00,880 --> 00:18:03,799
sending any help at Luca. Whoever is guarding Luca is

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going to be on an island. Luca's gonna have to

374
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score blah blah blah points in order for the Maverige

375
00:18:08,480 --> 00:18:10,519
to win, and they just kept coming up short. It's

376
00:18:10,559 --> 00:18:12,720
very similar to how the Celtics guarded them in the finals,

377
00:18:12,799 --> 00:18:14,839
but they were much better designed as a team for it.

378
00:18:15,960 --> 00:18:18,960
I think Luca likes being double teams. And when Luca

379
00:18:19,119 --> 00:18:21,480
likes being double teams, he likes finding the role man

380
00:18:21,799 --> 00:18:25,920
and if Luca gets doubled a lot. Lively in operating

381
00:18:26,039 --> 00:18:28,200
art of that short role is the thing that I

382
00:18:28,240 --> 00:18:33,480
am most excited to watch, because against the Thunder he

383
00:18:33,599 --> 00:18:36,079
had a couple of plays where you could see the

384
00:18:36,160 --> 00:18:38,960
lights starting to turn on where he realized that, yes,

385
00:18:39,160 --> 00:18:41,640
I am seven foot two and can take one power

386
00:18:41,720 --> 00:18:44,279
dribble and finish with either hand because he's that kind

387
00:18:44,279 --> 00:18:47,920
of finisher. He's really skilled with both hands. Or I

388
00:18:47,960 --> 00:18:50,720
can roll and find somebody cutting to the short corner

389
00:18:50,799 --> 00:18:54,240
for a dunk, or hit somebody in the corner for three.

390
00:18:54,640 --> 00:18:57,599
He's really that kind of guy. So I'm very interested

391
00:18:57,599 --> 00:19:00,279
to see how he plays as sort of a a

392
00:19:00,319 --> 00:19:03,599
secondary playmaker given how pick and roll heavy the Mavericks are.

393
00:19:03,640 --> 00:19:06,279
Speaker 2: And last year it sort of seemed like after the

394
00:19:06,319 --> 00:19:08,640
trade deadline, of course, that there was I don't say

395
00:19:08,680 --> 00:19:10,359
like a dead even minute split, because I know Lively.

396
00:19:10,359 --> 00:19:12,000
I think he averaged under twenty minutes per game when

397
00:19:12,000 --> 00:19:13,920
he came back from that injury before the regular season

398
00:19:14,000 --> 00:19:17,119
was out. Like, how did we see the secondary big

399
00:19:17,160 --> 00:19:19,640
man rotation working this year? Is it like we're gonna

400
00:19:19,640 --> 00:19:21,880
heavily skew it towards Lively minutes or could there be

401
00:19:21,920 --> 00:19:23,480
more of a dead even split or even as there

402
00:19:23,640 --> 00:19:25,200
are we still trying to make them Ax and Kleba

403
00:19:25,240 --> 00:19:27,160
happen as a primary big do you maybe get weird

404
00:19:27,400 --> 00:19:28,920
for a few minutes a game? Not weird, but do

405
00:19:28,920 --> 00:19:30,880
you put PJ at the five for a couple of

406
00:19:30,880 --> 00:19:32,839
minutes or is it just like, oh, go ahead.

407
00:19:33,000 --> 00:19:35,440
Speaker 3: I really hope they get weird and try different stuff,

408
00:19:35,480 --> 00:19:37,200
But I bet they still go for sort of a

409
00:19:37,240 --> 00:19:39,839
fifty to fifty split, okay, because you know all coaches

410
00:19:39,880 --> 00:19:42,359
get when guys get that third foul or even that

411
00:19:42,480 --> 00:19:45,240
second foul, you know they get a little skittish and

412
00:19:45,279 --> 00:19:47,799
they immediately go to their bench guy. And when you're

413
00:19:47,920 --> 00:19:50,119
very confident in your bench guy, you don't really hate

414
00:19:50,160 --> 00:19:52,480
that as a as a fan of a given team,

415
00:19:52,519 --> 00:19:54,440
because it's just you never know what you're gonna get

416
00:19:54,480 --> 00:19:57,160
out of those guys. I bet they in there if

417
00:19:57,160 --> 00:19:59,519
they're drawing up their minutes blocks and you got what

418
00:19:59,680 --> 00:20:02,279
is it, so it's forty eight minutes times five? Like,

419
00:20:02,319 --> 00:20:05,079
however minute you got forty eight center minutes, I bet

420
00:20:05,079 --> 00:20:08,359
you probably try to go for twenty eight for Lively

421
00:20:08,440 --> 00:20:11,759
in twenty for the other for the other center. But

422
00:20:11,799 --> 00:20:15,599
then you know they do have Maxi Khliba, who is

423
00:20:15,640 --> 00:20:18,039
an odd big that guy. If he plays ten minutes

424
00:20:18,039 --> 00:20:20,000
a game for the Mavericks, I think they're in good shape.

425
00:20:20,000 --> 00:20:23,200
He's a really helpful He's a really good help defender,

426
00:20:23,240 --> 00:20:25,599
but not a great rum protector. I do hope they

427
00:20:25,640 --> 00:20:28,079
do some funky stuff with their sizing and play PG

428
00:20:28,200 --> 00:20:31,119
at the five sometimes just because why not, Like, let's

429
00:20:31,119 --> 00:20:33,640
see what you have in terms of both offense and defense.

430
00:20:33,720 --> 00:20:36,400
But that's what should happen, at least on paper.

431
00:20:37,559 --> 00:20:40,440
Speaker 2: The I also I missed on the Daniel Gaffer acquisition

432
00:20:40,480 --> 00:20:42,279
in the sense of some of my concerns came to

433
00:20:42,319 --> 00:20:44,519
bear in the playoffs, but I need to play better

434
00:20:44,559 --> 00:20:47,920
weight in as a regular season like high end innings,

435
00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:51,079
innings minutes either excuse me, Like that is a dude

436
00:20:51,079 --> 00:20:53,640
that just flat out works and like you mentioned, like

437
00:20:53,680 --> 00:20:56,640
sort of the vertical athleticism is huge for them, and

438
00:20:56,720 --> 00:20:58,799
so that was just he really impressed me with that,

439
00:20:58,880 --> 00:21:01,240
and like having him for a full year that I

440
00:21:01,240 --> 00:21:03,079
feel like at least makes a lot like life a

441
00:21:03,079 --> 00:21:04,759
lot easier on Lively in the sense that you're even

442
00:21:04,759 --> 00:21:06,279
saying the plan shouldn't be you don't need him to

443
00:21:06,279 --> 00:21:07,880
play thirty minutes a game, is my point, Because you

444
00:21:07,920 --> 00:21:10,759
have someone who's as good as Daniel Gafford and maybe

445
00:21:10,799 --> 00:21:13,200
he's more likely to run into matchup issues, but that's

446
00:21:13,240 --> 00:21:14,640
just another thing that you don't need to care about

447
00:21:14,640 --> 00:21:15,920
as often in the regular season.

448
00:21:16,279 --> 00:21:18,720
Speaker 3: Yep. Yeah, And that's what I'm sort of hoping for too,

449
00:21:18,920 --> 00:21:22,680
because Lively also seems to have a penchant for odd injuries.

450
00:21:23,880 --> 00:21:26,279
Sometimes that just happens, Like I would argue Kyrie Irving

451
00:21:26,440 --> 00:21:28,119
is one of those guys where it's a key you

452
00:21:28,119 --> 00:21:30,160
don't want to call him injury prone, but weird stuff

453
00:21:30,200 --> 00:21:33,279
seems to happen like Lively getting you know, it felt

454
00:21:33,279 --> 00:21:36,079
like if Lively were thirty instead of twenty, I think

455
00:21:36,119 --> 00:21:38,440
Carl Towns might have ended his career with that need

456
00:21:38,440 --> 00:21:40,319
of the back of the head. But instead, because he's

457
00:21:40,319 --> 00:21:42,000
a twenty, he's like a twenty year old made out

458
00:21:42,039 --> 00:21:44,440
of beef jerky. He just like stands up, shakes it off,

459
00:21:44,440 --> 00:21:46,920
and is back in the next game. And it's like, okay, sure,

460
00:21:47,759 --> 00:21:50,920
so I don't know, but it's it's having like having

461
00:21:51,680 --> 00:21:55,119
a solid series of bigs is such an odd place

462
00:21:55,160 --> 00:21:57,119
for me to be as a Mavericks fan. Because I'm

463
00:21:57,160 --> 00:22:02,599
just I've endured has been or truly awful centers for

464
00:22:02,640 --> 00:22:05,519
such a long time where it's like Mark let Tyson

465
00:22:05,559 --> 00:22:08,200
Chandler go after one year, and so to get a

466
00:22:08,279 --> 00:22:11,839
guy who feels like an evolutionary version of Tyson is

467
00:22:11,880 --> 00:22:12,359
really fun.

468
00:22:12,759 --> 00:22:14,680
Speaker 1: PJ. Washington is fascinating to me.

469
00:22:15,400 --> 00:22:18,279
Speaker 2: It feels like, what is your level of trust just

470
00:22:18,279 --> 00:22:20,559
in the role that they're gonna want him to assume,

471
00:22:20,559 --> 00:22:22,400
Like do you trust him more to be like, oh,

472
00:22:22,720 --> 00:22:25,519
the best non big defender or do you trust more

473
00:22:25,519 --> 00:22:27,519
of what they need to from on offense, which is and

474
00:22:27,559 --> 00:22:29,039
we saw he kind of was all over the place

475
00:22:29,039 --> 00:22:30,519
of points, like he was hitting his threes, he was

476
00:22:30,519 --> 00:22:33,359
missing his threes. Can he be someone who attacks closeouts?

477
00:22:33,359 --> 00:22:35,640
Can he be someone that punishes mismatches?

478
00:22:36,279 --> 00:22:36,359
Speaker 3: Like?

479
00:22:36,400 --> 00:22:38,839
Speaker 1: What is your level of trust him consistently.

480
00:22:38,319 --> 00:22:41,440
Speaker 2: Feeling that like I guess the different spots that the

481
00:22:41,480 --> 00:22:42,400
Mavericks need him.

482
00:22:42,279 --> 00:22:45,559
Speaker 3: To like if the Mavericks have a weakness, this is

483
00:22:45,599 --> 00:22:48,960
the one, because he's a four that they occasionally want

484
00:22:48,960 --> 00:22:51,720
to masquerade as a three and I'm not sure he's

485
00:22:51,759 --> 00:22:55,799
that great at it, and he's a very Why I

486
00:22:55,839 --> 00:22:58,519
am high on him is because he's such a bundle

487
00:22:58,559 --> 00:23:02,720
of attributes, but things wax and wane with him in

488
00:23:03,000 --> 00:23:06,359
a real way. I made the joke repeatedly after they

489
00:23:06,400 --> 00:23:10,119
got him that he needed Lasik because when he misses shots,

490
00:23:10,799 --> 00:23:13,000
it's like, is there a breeze in the building, Like

491
00:23:13,039 --> 00:23:16,000
what were you looking at? My guy? And then against

492
00:23:16,039 --> 00:23:19,359
the Celtics, it really came out against the Celtics, which

493
00:23:19,359 --> 00:23:22,519
maybe isn't fair, but it's a criticism that exists. He

494
00:23:22,680 --> 00:23:27,680
has a terrible handle and with the way the Mavericks play,

495
00:23:27,759 --> 00:23:29,839
if you're gonna be a release valve, you have to

496
00:23:29,839 --> 00:23:32,079
be confident in putting the ball on the floor. You

497
00:23:32,279 --> 00:23:35,880
just have to be And that's you know where you know,

498
00:23:35,880 --> 00:23:38,920
the Mavericks have an assistant coach and God, sham God

499
00:23:38,960 --> 00:23:40,440
where you hope that he just sort of put him

500
00:23:40,440 --> 00:23:42,640
through sham God camp for the summer and he comes

501
00:23:42,680 --> 00:23:44,599
out with just a slightly better let you know, just

502
00:23:44,640 --> 00:23:48,039
a slightly better handle because he's got a really interesting package.

503
00:23:48,119 --> 00:23:51,319
You know, he's got an odd floater game that really

504
00:23:51,359 --> 00:23:54,160
works from like that five to nine foot range where

505
00:23:54,160 --> 00:23:56,759
it's like, how did that ugly thing go in? But

506
00:23:57,359 --> 00:24:01,480
the three point shot comes and goes in such wild

507
00:24:01,640 --> 00:24:05,039
swings at the moment, I do not. I don't particularly

508
00:24:05,079 --> 00:24:09,079
trust him, but it's a level it's like, oh, I

509
00:24:09,079 --> 00:24:11,599
don't trust him compared to Kyrie Irving, Luka don Jic

510
00:24:11,799 --> 00:24:15,400
and Klay Thompson. Like it's kind of a luxury, if

511
00:24:15,400 --> 00:24:16,119
that makes sense.

512
00:24:16,519 --> 00:24:18,799
Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure, I guess I'm probably it sounds like

513
00:24:18,799 --> 00:24:20,960
I was overweighting it because I didn't look at Clay

514
00:24:21,039 --> 00:24:22,960
necessarily as the guy to kind of fill in the

515
00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:27,000
spot of, oh, the third guy in the primary lineup

516
00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:30,039
who can dribble or like attack in those situations, and

517
00:24:30,079 --> 00:24:32,440
I viewed it more as like PJ. Washington, I feel

518
00:24:32,440 --> 00:24:34,039
like needs to be that guy because it feels like

519
00:24:34,039 --> 00:24:36,519
he'll be working with more space. But it does sound

520
00:24:36,599 --> 00:24:38,640
like you might be higher on Klay Thompson being able

521
00:24:38,680 --> 00:24:40,200
to fill in those gaps.

522
00:24:41,319 --> 00:24:43,960
Speaker 3: Yes, I mean, I'm very I think I'm just still

523
00:24:44,640 --> 00:24:47,200
instead of being so worried coming into the season about

524
00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:49,519
different elements where they're short, because the Mavericks in twenty

525
00:24:49,519 --> 00:24:51,400
twenty two to twenty three looks so dead in the

526
00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:53,839
water and then they just came back in there, and

527
00:24:53,880 --> 00:24:55,799
so I'm still just sort of living on a high

528
00:24:55,839 --> 00:24:59,039
and I don't I've not yet written down all of

529
00:24:59,079 --> 00:25:02,799
my concern points and that'll happen soon enough, though, because

530
00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:05,039
I guess the season is sneaking up on us.

531
00:25:05,319 --> 00:25:06,920
Speaker 1: Well. I think it was also big too.

532
00:25:07,039 --> 00:25:09,279
Speaker 2: Is like they're to me, they at least feel better

533
00:25:09,599 --> 00:25:11,720
from a talent perspective where it's day. I don't think

534
00:25:11,759 --> 00:25:14,039
they compromise their defense, but I think they got a

535
00:25:14,039 --> 00:25:16,559
lot more versatile on offense, even if the ball hand

536
00:25:16,680 --> 00:25:19,480
with the third ball handler third attackers is still like

537
00:25:19,519 --> 00:25:21,240
it was a concern they were working with last year

538
00:25:21,279 --> 00:25:23,759
and they went pretty far as it turns out.

539
00:25:24,039 --> 00:25:27,400
Speaker 3: And sometimes it requires a little bit of luck. Someone

540
00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:30,799
asked me a very upsetting question on a mailbag pod

541
00:25:30,799 --> 00:25:32,319
the other day where it's like, what do you think

542
00:25:32,319 --> 00:25:35,440
about Jaden Hardy in comparison to rud Riek bou Blah

543
00:25:35,759 --> 00:25:41,319
former Mavericks almost legend and this guy named Dominic Jones

544
00:25:41,319 --> 00:25:43,400
who played with the team for like he was on

545
00:25:43,440 --> 00:25:45,440
the title team but like never played like one of

546
00:25:45,440 --> 00:25:48,480
these combo guards. And it's just like my answer was,

547
00:25:48,799 --> 00:25:52,200
it's so great to not really have to care at all,

548
00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:54,799
because it's like if you're getting that deep into the

549
00:25:54,880 --> 00:25:57,880
roster to where somebody like Jayden Hardy matters. It's a

550
00:25:57,920 --> 00:26:00,039
different you're talking about a different team, and like a

551
00:26:00,079 --> 00:26:02,880
guy like Jayden Hardy, he was a difference maker in

552
00:26:02,920 --> 00:26:04,680
the playoffs in a way that I will never be

553
00:26:04,759 --> 00:26:07,960
able to properly contextualize. He threw up some garbage that

554
00:26:08,039 --> 00:26:10,119
went in at the right time for the Mavericks, and

555
00:26:10,119 --> 00:26:12,000
all you can do is go, Okay, I'll take it,

556
00:26:12,319 --> 00:26:14,119
and then you know, I hope, hope it comes back

557
00:26:14,160 --> 00:26:16,880
the next year. But it's just, you know, they're they're

558
00:26:16,920 --> 00:26:19,319
just in a in a bizarre spot that I am

559
00:26:19,640 --> 00:26:22,559
where I feel very bullish on my team.

560
00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:25,319
Speaker 1: And I look, I think you're rightfully bullish on them.

561
00:26:25,480 --> 00:26:26,759
Where are you sort of at though?

562
00:26:26,799 --> 00:26:29,000
Speaker 2: With Jaden Hardy, who you by the way you mentioned

563
00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:30,839
the playoffs and it felt like he kind of like

564
00:26:31,279 --> 00:26:33,279
manifested out of nowhere to point like deep in the

565
00:26:33,279 --> 00:26:35,559
postseason where oh, this guy wasn't getting regular minutes and

566
00:26:35,559 --> 00:26:37,519
then if it's all of a sudden, what's that first

567
00:26:37,559 --> 00:26:39,480
game he comes in he plays like was it fifteen

568
00:26:39,519 --> 00:26:41,920
minutes or something against Oaklahoma City and it was like,

569
00:26:42,119 --> 00:26:43,079
what's going on here?

570
00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:45,400
Speaker 3: So I go to Summer League. I've gone to Summer

571
00:26:45,480 --> 00:26:48,079
league every year for eleven years in a row. I

572
00:26:48,119 --> 00:26:51,400
have never won money gambling for fun at any point.

573
00:26:51,519 --> 00:26:54,640
Like I walked out down for ten straight years. This

574
00:26:54,759 --> 00:26:56,920
year I actually walked out a little bit up. I'm

575
00:26:56,920 --> 00:26:59,359
gonna use that as a comparison to Jaden Hardy because

576
00:26:59,400 --> 00:27:02,559
he was down for two years with the Mavericks where

577
00:27:02,559 --> 00:27:05,839
he was a mess players. Yeah, because he's six foot

578
00:27:05,880 --> 00:27:08,279
three combo guard. He got I don't want to say

579
00:27:08,279 --> 00:27:10,279
he got hot at the right time because he didn't

580
00:27:10,279 --> 00:27:14,599
really choot that, but it's just his irrational confidence was

581
00:27:14,680 --> 00:27:18,279
a thing that the team needed at specific points where

582
00:27:18,319 --> 00:27:22,000
things were sort of wavering, and it's just it's crazy

583
00:27:22,039 --> 00:27:24,400
to me that it ended up working. Like I just

584
00:27:24,519 --> 00:27:29,200
I he is in such a peculiar player where he's

585
00:27:29,240 --> 00:27:33,279
still developing. He's young but small, Like, let's just be honest.

586
00:27:33,759 --> 00:27:36,319
Every year there's six foot three combo guards coming into

587
00:27:36,319 --> 00:27:38,960
the league that can kind of shoot, can kind of pass,

588
00:27:39,640 --> 00:27:42,400
you know. So for for my expectations for somebody like

589
00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:45,640
him this year are are are very similar to Grimes

590
00:27:45,680 --> 00:27:49,119
next somewhere. I just you hope that when the Mavericks

591
00:27:49,160 --> 00:27:53,799
call on him for a fifteen, you know, for two

592
00:27:53,880 --> 00:27:56,640
fifteen game stretches during an eighty two game season that

593
00:27:56,720 --> 00:27:59,440
he's able to produce in a way that helps them

594
00:27:59,480 --> 00:28:00,200
win ball games.

595
00:28:00,920 --> 00:28:01,359
Speaker 1: Is that like?

596
00:28:01,599 --> 00:28:03,160
Speaker 2: That seems like it could just be sort of a

597
00:28:03,319 --> 00:28:05,519
vacillation point for their roster where it's like, on any

598
00:28:05,559 --> 00:28:07,279
given night, it could be a Jaden Hardy Knight or

599
00:28:07,359 --> 00:28:10,079
Quentin Grimes knight, or or an XM Knight type deal

600
00:28:10,079 --> 00:28:12,200
where it's not going to be, oh, this one guy

601
00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:14,599
of those three is penciled in, is he's gonna play

602
00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:15,440
X amount of minutes.

603
00:28:15,720 --> 00:28:18,000
Speaker 3: I think that's right, and I think that's often the

604
00:28:18,039 --> 00:28:22,079
case with potential contenders because the season is just too

605
00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:25,319
long to have seven you know, the Celtics might be

606
00:28:25,359 --> 00:28:28,079
an exception, but the season is just too long to

607
00:28:28,160 --> 00:28:32,480
have eight guys that can consistently play above average to

608
00:28:32,599 --> 00:28:35,519
great basketball for seventy plus games. It's just too like

609
00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:39,400
they're not they're they're you know, injuries, life slumps, you know,

610
00:28:39,440 --> 00:28:43,279
it's things just happen sometimes where guys play play really

611
00:28:43,799 --> 00:28:47,720
frustrating basketball and instead of having and the Mavericks now

612
00:28:47,759 --> 00:28:51,839
have optionality where instead of playing you know, if Derek

613
00:28:51,920 --> 00:28:54,279
Jones Junior hit a slump last year, they played, They

614
00:28:54,279 --> 00:28:55,799
played him through it because they didn't really have the

615
00:28:55,880 --> 00:28:59,000
other options, whereas now they got three to four guys.

616
00:28:59,039 --> 00:29:01,440
I think that can sort of at different points and

617
00:29:01,480 --> 00:29:04,279
give them at least opportunities. They might not play better,

618
00:29:04,720 --> 00:29:07,559
but it's nice to have opportunities instead of saying, Okay,

619
00:29:07,680 --> 00:29:10,240
well we're gonna go. You know, the Mavericks said this

620
00:29:10,279 --> 00:29:12,480
thing after they were in the bubble where they resigned,

621
00:29:12,559 --> 00:29:14,960
like Willy Cauley Stein to a deal and it's like,

622
00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:17,920
who's offering Willy cally seign money? Like what are we

623
00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:20,680
doing that? They just have a roster now that feels

624
00:29:20,839 --> 00:29:24,440
as complete as it could be given the current salary

625
00:29:24,440 --> 00:29:25,079
cap structure.

626
00:29:25,279 --> 00:29:27,279
Speaker 2: One of the things that was fascinating or that I

627
00:29:27,319 --> 00:29:29,079
thought was really cool about them is they played so

628
00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:31,759
much faster than they have in seasons prior. They were

629
00:29:31,839 --> 00:29:34,920
thirtieth in average offensive possession time in twenty two to

630
00:29:34,920 --> 00:29:37,519
twenty three, they were like I had it written down here.

631
00:29:37,519 --> 00:29:39,640
Speaker 1: I think it was was it seventh or fifth? Like, oh,

632
00:29:39,640 --> 00:29:41,759
it was eighth. They shot up to last year.

633
00:29:41,880 --> 00:29:43,200
Speaker 2: There was clear when you watched them, like I think

634
00:29:43,200 --> 00:29:47,079
an emphasis of making quicker decisions off of grabbing defensive rebounds.

635
00:29:47,119 --> 00:29:49,079
But was there anything else that went into that? Is

636
00:29:49,119 --> 00:29:51,160
that simply just a mindset shift? And are they still

637
00:29:51,160 --> 00:29:53,960
built to continue that trend because I thought it gave them.

638
00:29:54,119 --> 00:29:56,480
We talked a lot about optionality here. They have the

639
00:29:56,519 --> 00:29:58,599
ability to play in so many different ways. To me too,

640
00:29:58,640 --> 00:30:00,319
because I think we saw them slow things down a

641
00:30:00,319 --> 00:30:03,119
little bit when it was actively the you know, Kyrie

642
00:30:03,160 --> 00:30:05,839
by himself or Luca by himself, when defenses were like

643
00:30:06,200 --> 00:30:08,839
not as stretched thin because they're not focusing on two stars,

644
00:30:08,839 --> 00:30:09,960
they're focusing on one.

645
00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:14,799
Speaker 3: They need to play fast. I think that given the

646
00:30:14,880 --> 00:30:18,079
horses and given the variation of guys, I think that

647
00:30:18,160 --> 00:30:21,640
it works best for everyone if they're willing to play fast,

648
00:30:23,519 --> 00:30:25,440
I said, and I'm just finished saying they need to.

649
00:30:25,519 --> 00:30:27,440
I just think there just has to be a willingness

650
00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:31,799
involved where Luca just really likes my strowing and controlling

651
00:30:31,839 --> 00:30:35,119
everything from the go. But now I think he has

652
00:30:35,240 --> 00:30:39,319
confidence in the guys that he's passing ahead. Two. You

653
00:30:39,559 --> 00:30:41,920
got Kyrie streaking on the wing, you got Klay Thompson,

654
00:30:41,960 --> 00:30:44,400
you got Derek Leively. Like as the season went on

655
00:30:44,480 --> 00:30:49,839
last year, he started like he tried lots of preposterous stuff. Uh,

656
00:30:50,319 --> 00:30:53,680
he in, you know, the Mavericks and the playoffs had

657
00:30:53,799 --> 00:30:56,359
like so like they had more dunks than any team

658
00:30:56,400 --> 00:30:58,799
since like the one Lakers or something. It was. It

659
00:30:58,839 --> 00:31:02,759
was nuts. And it comes from their sort of willingness

660
00:31:02,759 --> 00:31:05,640
to really press when they have the advantage, and so

661
00:31:05,759 --> 00:31:10,119
it's hopefully it's built into the strategy. I think it's

662
00:31:10,119 --> 00:31:11,160
pretty important for them.

663
00:31:13,279 --> 00:31:15,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm gonna be curious to see because Clay can

664
00:31:15,200 --> 00:31:17,759
still move, but I'm just wondering if having him at

665
00:31:17,759 --> 00:31:19,960
times or even I guess Nagie marsh is actually pretty

666
00:31:19,960 --> 00:31:21,519
good in transition. I was gonna say, instead of Derek

667
00:31:21,599 --> 00:31:23,240
Jones Junior, if that changed anything.

668
00:31:23,319 --> 00:31:27,519
Speaker 3: So that I'm gonna miss. I asked the Mavericks official

669
00:31:27,599 --> 00:31:29,640
this and he said, you know, we never really ran

670
00:31:29,640 --> 00:31:31,720
any plays for Derek Jones, like he just kind of

671
00:31:31,720 --> 00:31:36,480
got those dunks. But it's those dunks are it's it's

672
00:31:36,519 --> 00:31:38,400
like it's like when you see a you know, a

673
00:31:38,440 --> 00:31:40,279
team get hot in baseball all of a sudden, it

674
00:31:40,359 --> 00:31:42,640
just takes the one thing. And I think there's an

675
00:31:42,640 --> 00:31:45,839
emotional element to the Mavericks playing with athletic guys and

676
00:31:45,920 --> 00:31:49,319
getting those dunks that they need to find a way

677
00:31:49,319 --> 00:31:52,759
to keep trying to manufacture. You know, Josh Green, who

678
00:31:52,799 --> 00:31:55,279
was maligned by me and by others, he was another

679
00:31:55,440 --> 00:31:58,480
spark plug, like they have to other guys are gonna

680
00:31:58,519 --> 00:32:01,160
have to step in into those roles and fill them

681
00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:02,319
in some way, shape or form.

682
00:32:02,559 --> 00:32:04,599
Speaker 2: I have to ask about this just because you sold

683
00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:09,119
me Oma's real estate podcast last year. Where are you

684
00:32:09,480 --> 00:32:11,920
I haven't sold yet, that's a consolation, But where are

685
00:32:11,960 --> 00:32:15,160
you at with Olivia Maxon's prosper.

686
00:32:16,599 --> 00:32:21,240
Speaker 3: I'm glad they don't need him. I don't after seeing

687
00:32:21,279 --> 00:32:24,519
him in Summer League this year not really look any different.

688
00:32:25,359 --> 00:32:29,799
I have concerns. One thing that I don't think is

689
00:32:29,839 --> 00:32:32,079
not talked about enough, And I guess it is to

690
00:32:32,160 --> 00:32:34,079
a degree like the G League Ignite sort of went

691
00:32:34,160 --> 00:32:37,640
up in flames as a developmental structure for the NBA,

692
00:32:38,319 --> 00:32:40,799
and I don't think we're talking about why enough because

693
00:32:40,839 --> 00:32:45,599
G League basketball is not really remotely similar to NBA basketball,

694
00:32:45,720 --> 00:32:48,680
Like it's such a faster pace. So it's like I

695
00:32:48,720 --> 00:32:50,480
was watching you know, O max stuff in the G

696
00:32:50,640 --> 00:32:52,839
League and he puts up really nice stats and then

697
00:32:52,839 --> 00:32:54,559
he comes to the NBA and it's not like I

698
00:32:54,559 --> 00:32:56,680
expect him to get thirty points but there are just

699
00:32:56,720 --> 00:32:59,720
times when he looks really lost. One of the things

700
00:32:59,759 --> 00:33:01,920
that he coming into the league, which was very good

701
00:33:01,960 --> 00:33:03,480
at at college, it's like he seemed to be a

702
00:33:03,519 --> 00:33:05,599
guy where he's almost like a shutdown corner where you

703
00:33:05,599 --> 00:33:07,680
put him on someone and he can definitely keep that

704
00:33:07,720 --> 00:33:10,400
guy from scoring. But he's not a great team defender.

705
00:33:11,039 --> 00:33:14,640
And so I just I'm a little bit I'm worried

706
00:33:14,680 --> 00:33:16,599
in so far as I can be about a team

707
00:33:16,640 --> 00:33:18,839
again that just came off the finals. I hope he

708
00:33:18,880 --> 00:33:21,880
gets his opportunities. But when I mentioned, you know, the

709
00:33:21,880 --> 00:33:25,920
Mavericks potentially playing you know, nine, ten, eleven guys, when

710
00:33:25,920 --> 00:33:27,559
you go down the list, you start to look and

711
00:33:27,599 --> 00:33:28,960
you're like, all right, who's gonna be one of the

712
00:33:28,960 --> 00:33:31,559
odd and out? And I think right now, given the

713
00:33:31,599 --> 00:33:33,960
team structure, he's gonna be the one of the odd

714
00:33:33,960 --> 00:33:36,240
guys out who just doesn't get many many chances.

715
00:33:36,640 --> 00:33:38,640
Speaker 2: Well, what's also tough with someone like him, and maybe

716
00:33:38,680 --> 00:33:40,480
I'm just showing my ignorance to what goes on in

717
00:33:40,480 --> 00:33:42,319
the G League, is that it's probably it's hard to

718
00:33:42,400 --> 00:33:45,440
just replicate if he's getting that time, what he would

719
00:33:45,440 --> 00:33:47,920
do with this basketball team, because he's either going to

720
00:33:47,960 --> 00:33:50,119
be playing with less talented players who can't really put

721
00:33:50,200 --> 00:33:52,119
him in the situations he would be an or you're

722
00:33:52,160 --> 00:33:53,960
just gonna give him a ton of volume on the ball,

723
00:33:53,960 --> 00:33:57,000
which he's just never gonna get with the actual Mavericks.

724
00:33:57,279 --> 00:34:00,240
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, And I think that's part of the part

725
00:34:00,279 --> 00:34:04,400
of the problem where it's not that he is he

726
00:34:04,519 --> 00:34:07,880
is perfectly. You know, if you assume the NBA is

727
00:34:08,119 --> 00:34:10,159
four and fifty of the best players in the world,

728
00:34:10,760 --> 00:34:14,360
and there's about a thousand guys worldwide that could probably

729
00:34:14,400 --> 00:34:17,320
play minutes in the NBA, you get some of these

730
00:34:17,320 --> 00:34:19,800
guys that are younger, better, and they just don't really

731
00:34:19,800 --> 00:34:21,800
get a chance to show what they could do because

732
00:34:21,800 --> 00:34:25,079
the situation isn't right for them. And he might be

733
00:34:25,159 --> 00:34:28,519
one of those guys. But he's also just he's big,

734
00:34:29,199 --> 00:34:32,440
he's like six to eight, he's got great shoulders, he's

735
00:34:32,800 --> 00:34:35,760
got the I don't want to say like the measurables,

736
00:34:35,760 --> 00:34:38,000
because he really didn't have that great combine testing, but

737
00:34:38,039 --> 00:34:39,719
like there's something there where you look at the guy

738
00:34:39,760 --> 00:34:42,239
and go, I think someone can make that guy a

739
00:34:42,239 --> 00:34:46,880
basketball player, and so maybe they'll get the opportunity. I'm

740
00:34:46,920 --> 00:34:48,960
not really sure where he would fit with them at

741
00:34:48,960 --> 00:34:52,880
the moment, but you know, it's another large, large, rangey guy,

742
00:34:53,079 --> 00:34:55,719
so I'm hopeful for him, but not bullish this year.

743
00:34:55,880 --> 00:34:58,320
Speaker 1: Are you ready to enter the cookie cutter portion of

744
00:34:58,360 --> 00:34:59,000
the podcast?

745
00:35:00,159 --> 00:35:00,400
Speaker 3: Yes?

746
00:35:01,280 --> 00:35:04,199
Speaker 2: Is there a strength or just something about this team

747
00:35:04,360 --> 00:35:06,880
that you think flies under the radar needs to be

748
00:35:06,920 --> 00:35:07,800
talked about more?

749
00:35:08,840 --> 00:35:13,440
Speaker 3: O a strength that needs to be talked about more,

750
00:35:15,320 --> 00:35:17,960
you know after a finals run. I don't think so.

751
00:35:19,360 --> 00:35:21,679
My co host and I were just talking about how

752
00:35:21,800 --> 00:35:24,159
we have to sort of be ready and be on

753
00:35:24,239 --> 00:35:26,559
our game early when the season starts, because the Mavericks

754
00:35:26,559 --> 00:35:29,079
are going to have more eyes, whereas when they started

755
00:35:29,119 --> 00:35:32,679
last year, I mean they had tanked to miss, you know,

756
00:35:32,760 --> 00:35:34,599
the tenth seed. They were going to miss it anyways,

757
00:35:34,639 --> 00:35:37,079
but it's a they just had such bad vibes coming

758
00:35:37,119 --> 00:35:40,079
into the year in twenty twenty three twenty four, and

759
00:35:40,119 --> 00:35:42,119
nobody really noticed that they were very good because they

760
00:35:42,119 --> 00:35:43,559
got off to an eight and two start and then

761
00:35:43,559 --> 00:35:46,760
effectively played under five hundred basketball until the All Star Game.

762
00:35:46,840 --> 00:35:50,000
Like Luca had that seventy point game, which I really

763
00:35:50,039 --> 00:35:54,119
wish people talked about more because he was like that

764
00:35:54,280 --> 00:35:56,400
was one of the silliest things I've seen, and it's

765
00:35:56,599 --> 00:35:59,000
that they said. It's like the rule changes point came

766
00:35:59,039 --> 00:36:01,239
pretty soon after that, Like he shot like nine to

767
00:36:01,239 --> 00:36:05,599
fifteen from three, Like that's why he scored seventy point.

768
00:36:06,000 --> 00:36:08,599
I don't really think that there's too much that's flying

769
00:36:08,679 --> 00:36:12,199
under the radar about this team this much. They're they're

770
00:36:12,239 --> 00:36:15,599
head cover, they're associate head coach. Sean Sweeney nearly getting

771
00:36:15,679 --> 00:36:18,679
hired by Detroit is probably like secretly one of the

772
00:36:18,719 --> 00:36:21,880
big wins for the Mavericks because I think he is

773
00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:27,039
like the the Thibodeaux to Doc Rivers Celtics team where

774
00:36:27,039 --> 00:36:30,679
he really helped assemble the defense, And so if there's

775
00:36:31,000 --> 00:36:33,679
a defensive upside for this team, it's because I believe

776
00:36:33,719 --> 00:36:35,239
he might be able to shape it.

777
00:36:36,000 --> 00:36:38,000
Speaker 2: Do you prefer, by the way, it's totally off topic,

778
00:36:38,079 --> 00:36:40,159
but do you prefer your own peace of mind?

779
00:36:40,159 --> 00:36:42,000
Speaker 1: You feel good about this team? That's much easier to do.

780
00:36:42,360 --> 00:36:45,199
Speaker 2: Do you prefer that, like they're kind of forefront in

781
00:36:45,280 --> 00:36:48,679
the national conscious for all basketball reasons now, like or

782
00:36:48,719 --> 00:36:50,639
does that get like are you one of the people

783
00:36:50,639 --> 00:36:51,280
that might feel.

784
00:36:51,119 --> 00:36:53,119
Speaker 1: Better if people were doubting your team inherently?

785
00:36:54,320 --> 00:36:56,840
Speaker 3: I mean, it's nice and it really depends on how

786
00:36:56,880 --> 00:37:00,480
you like to consume sports. Where you get the kind

787
00:37:00,480 --> 00:37:02,840
of fans that are like, nobody's talking about our team.

788
00:37:03,079 --> 00:37:05,519
That's annoying, and then you get the then when people

789
00:37:05,559 --> 00:37:08,679
are talking about your team, they're not talking about our

790
00:37:08,719 --> 00:37:11,880
team correctly. Yeah, it's like it's like what do you want?

791
00:37:12,280 --> 00:37:15,760
You know, there's such a smorgas board of content where

792
00:37:15,800 --> 00:37:17,840
you can kind of find the content that you want,

793
00:37:18,320 --> 00:37:21,039
and like, like, I like it so long as the

794
00:37:21,119 --> 00:37:23,480
team is interesting. You know, I'm sure you've had to

795
00:37:23,519 --> 00:37:26,320
cover some very bad teams over the years, and like

796
00:37:26,559 --> 00:37:29,280
when the team is not good by around game forty,

797
00:37:29,360 --> 00:37:32,360
there's nothing more to say and you have forty more

798
00:37:32,400 --> 00:37:35,320
games to get to. And so I'm at least pleased

799
00:37:35,320 --> 00:37:38,320
that everything is interesting to where I have, like, look,

800
00:37:38,320 --> 00:37:40,760
we're gonna be we're at the thirty eight minute mark already,

801
00:37:40,880 --> 00:37:43,079
Like it's it's there's just there's stuff to talk about

802
00:37:43,119 --> 00:37:44,159
with this team, which is fun.

803
00:37:45,000 --> 00:37:47,440
Speaker 1: I also like too that it feels like there's different I.

804
00:37:47,400 --> 00:37:49,280
Speaker 2: Mean, you talk about everything when you cover them, probably

805
00:37:49,320 --> 00:37:51,559
the two games, but from a national perspective, when it

806
00:37:51,559 --> 00:37:54,480
feels like even looking at other national outlets covering them,

807
00:37:54,599 --> 00:37:57,079
it feels like there's variable talking points now as opposed

808
00:37:57,079 --> 00:37:58,960
to what was it two or three years of like

809
00:37:59,239 --> 00:38:02,719
the Lukadantre contract situation and his future, and now the

810
00:38:02,760 --> 00:38:04,719
focus has kind of shifted towards I'm not one of

811
00:38:04,760 --> 00:38:06,400
those that it needs to be on basketball all the time,

812
00:38:06,400 --> 00:38:09,400
but there's so many different intriguing things about this team

813
00:38:09,480 --> 00:38:13,079
beyond like, well, what's gonna happen transactionally with them?

814
00:38:13,360 --> 00:38:16,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, and that's fun because you know the the if

815
00:38:16,840 --> 00:38:20,320
you move past kind of the the the headliner aspect

816
00:38:20,440 --> 00:38:24,000
of oh is Klay Thompson gonna like playing in such

817
00:38:24,039 --> 00:38:27,800
a Luca heavy scheme? The questions of what can you

818
00:38:27,840 --> 00:38:30,719
do with Klay Thompson on offense with these different players

819
00:38:30,920 --> 00:38:34,440
is really fun to think about. Like basketball is such

820
00:38:34,480 --> 00:38:38,199
a it's such a game of margins and really tiny ones,

821
00:38:38,400 --> 00:38:41,639
and this team is so interesting from a basketball point

822
00:38:41,679 --> 00:38:44,360
of view, and that's and that's what's nice. I'm lucky

823
00:38:44,400 --> 00:38:49,559
to work with my My MAVs podcast. My my co

824
00:38:49,639 --> 00:38:51,360
host is like he's like one of these guys that

825
00:38:51,440 --> 00:38:54,079
can watch a play and see it one time and

826
00:38:54,159 --> 00:38:56,840
being able to explain every element. And so I'm just like,

827
00:38:56,960 --> 00:38:59,280
I can't wait till once the season is going to

828
00:38:59,320 --> 00:39:00,719
be able to say, oh, right, you know this is

829
00:39:00,800 --> 00:39:04,280
the elevator player they ran for, they ran for Klay Thompson.

830
00:39:04,320 --> 00:39:06,159
Oh man, well look how he gets this pick and

831
00:39:06,239 --> 00:39:08,519
roll and the dunk and an easy dunk for you know,

832
00:39:08,840 --> 00:39:10,880
Daniel Gafford like that. I just I can't wait for

833
00:39:10,920 --> 00:39:11,960
that stuff is there?

834
00:39:12,199 --> 00:39:13,920
Speaker 2: And I know last year when I asked you this question,

835
00:39:14,159 --> 00:39:15,800
it might still be the same answer. But when you're

836
00:39:15,840 --> 00:39:19,559
looking at this roster, what's the biggest concern you have

837
00:39:19,679 --> 00:39:20,079
about it?

838
00:39:22,159 --> 00:39:24,840
Speaker 3: To use an overused phrase, I'm sort of wondering who's

839
00:39:24,880 --> 00:39:26,880
who's the point of the tack defender? Like who do they?

840
00:39:26,880 --> 00:39:30,599
Who do they in that role? But I think they

841
00:39:30,639 --> 00:39:33,840
have some interesting options. Like you've mentioned before, Quentin Grimes,

842
00:39:34,599 --> 00:39:38,119
spect Nagie Marshall, and PJ. Washington all get cracks at

843
00:39:38,159 --> 00:39:39,360
it depending on who the player is.

844
00:39:40,480 --> 00:39:43,079
Speaker 2: Nag he's good at like those, like when you're putting

845
00:39:43,159 --> 00:39:45,719
up against someone who's like has like that on ball burst,

846
00:39:45,760 --> 00:39:48,000
but like the guys who have changes of speed, Like

847
00:39:48,039 --> 00:39:50,280
he did some pretty good stuff against Shay I thought

848
00:39:50,280 --> 00:39:52,199
when he played against him, So like, I don't think

849
00:39:52,199 --> 00:39:54,599
people are considering him or Quinton grinds enough when they

850
00:39:54,599 --> 00:39:57,719
talk about what the mass potentially lost in Derrek Jones

851
00:39:57,760 --> 00:39:58,599
Junior Yep.

852
00:39:58,760 --> 00:40:00,599
Speaker 3: Yep, and then it's gonna be fun to see how

853
00:40:00,639 --> 00:40:04,199
they get those things to work. I mean, we get

854
00:40:04,199 --> 00:40:06,880
some critical of NBA players because you see so many

855
00:40:06,960 --> 00:40:09,039
games in them, but like when you really boil it down,

856
00:40:09,840 --> 00:40:13,159
particularly guys that are still within their prime, they're so

857
00:40:13,280 --> 00:40:16,960
incredible with with the range of things they can do.

858
00:40:17,079 --> 00:40:19,079
And so it's like for guys that I'm not as

859
00:40:19,119 --> 00:40:22,599
familiar with, meaning Marshall and Grimes, I just can't wait

860
00:40:22,639 --> 00:40:25,000
to learn about them and learn about what their strengths

861
00:40:25,039 --> 00:40:27,199
are within the Dallas team. So that's gonna be fun.

862
00:40:27,639 --> 00:40:29,039
Speaker 2: You'll have to let me know if Grimes is still

863
00:40:29,079 --> 00:40:31,800
unhappy about not working with the ball in his hands, though,

864
00:40:31,920 --> 00:40:33,960
that'll be something that you'll need to track for me.

865
00:40:34,159 --> 00:40:34,599
Speaker 3: Interesting.

866
00:40:35,119 --> 00:40:36,679
Speaker 2: Yeah, that was That was a weird thing he had

867
00:40:36,679 --> 00:40:38,800
in New York. He didn't really play in Detroit, so

868
00:40:38,840 --> 00:40:40,159
it didn't matter, but I thought that was one of

869
00:40:40,159 --> 00:40:41,519
the more bizarre things that I saw.

870
00:40:41,800 --> 00:40:43,719
Speaker 1: So you mentioned there's eleven guys who you think need

871
00:40:43,760 --> 00:40:44,039
to play.

872
00:40:44,039 --> 00:40:46,960
Speaker 2: I'm going to ask you, though everyone's healthy, who are

873
00:40:47,000 --> 00:40:47,960
who are the top ten?

874
00:40:48,039 --> 00:40:49,719
Speaker 1: Like, what's that ten man rotation? Look like?

875
00:40:49,840 --> 00:40:52,960
Speaker 3: Whoa pulling up? I'm pulling up the roster now I'm

876
00:40:52,960 --> 00:40:56,960
pulling up because because you gave us a nice little rundown,

877
00:40:57,000 --> 00:40:59,440
and so it's your your starters are self evident to me.

878
00:40:59,440 --> 00:41:02,599
Where you have lou Don Chich, Kyrie, Irving, Klay Thompson, PJ. Washington,

879
00:41:02,679 --> 00:41:05,920
derk Lyvewood, that's your five. The first guy off the

880
00:41:05,920 --> 00:41:08,320
bench or the first big off the bench is is

881
00:41:09,440 --> 00:41:12,719
is the afore mentioned Daniel Gafford. He's obviously fantastic. Now

882
00:41:12,760 --> 00:41:15,880
after that is you get a lot of question of

883
00:41:16,000 --> 00:41:19,800
feel of who's who's going to be the next guy.

884
00:41:19,960 --> 00:41:23,280
To me, my initial inclination, given sort of what they've

885
00:41:23,800 --> 00:41:29,960
talked about, has to be Naujie Marshall. But again it's

886
00:41:30,440 --> 00:41:34,639
how they structure Kyrie's minutes, Luca's minuttes is so interesting

887
00:41:34,719 --> 00:41:37,199
because you just have different guys that can do different things.

888
00:41:37,840 --> 00:41:40,039
So it's you know, is Daniel get Is it going

889
00:41:40,119 --> 00:41:42,079
to be Dante ExHAM that comes off? Is it going

890
00:41:42,159 --> 00:41:45,440
to be Quentin Grimes? You know you wrote down Maxi

891
00:41:45,519 --> 00:41:48,480
Kleeber as their tenth. On top of that, But then

892
00:41:48,559 --> 00:41:51,039
that that that's where you start to really get into

893
00:41:51,079 --> 00:41:55,400
these these different looks at things. Where you have Olivia

894
00:41:55,440 --> 00:41:58,320
Maxillon's prosper who who we talked about a few seconds ago.

895
00:41:59,000 --> 00:42:01,519
You have Jayden har is that guy gonna be someone

896
00:42:01,559 --> 00:42:05,480
that matters. Then there's like we didn't even talk about him.

897
00:42:05,480 --> 00:42:09,880
There's Spencer Dinwiddie. Spencer Dinwitdy exists and like, I personally

898
00:42:09,920 --> 00:42:11,880
can't believe they brought him back because they sent him

899
00:42:11,880 --> 00:42:14,320
out and I am very certain they were tired of

900
00:42:14,360 --> 00:42:17,679
his of his he's like the he's like the the

901
00:42:17,840 --> 00:42:20,320
colleague who when things are going great, you love having

902
00:42:20,400 --> 00:42:23,119
him around, but when things aren't, he's it's like, dude,

903
00:42:23,119 --> 00:42:27,119
shut up, Like that's that's that's Spencer Dinwiddy. Like he

904
00:42:27,280 --> 00:42:30,599
was giving like two and three minute answers to stuff

905
00:42:30,599 --> 00:42:32,840
before they traded him, about what the team needed to

906
00:42:32,840 --> 00:42:35,239
do better while he was shooting like ass and it's like, buddy,

907
00:42:35,280 --> 00:42:37,719
read the room, you're not that guy. Don't do it.

908
00:42:39,000 --> 00:42:40,920
But yeah, it's just it's it's it's gonna be really

909
00:42:40,960 --> 00:42:43,119
fascinating to me. I can't believe I forgot about Dinwity.

910
00:42:43,519 --> 00:42:45,440
That's just think he That's what I mean when I

911
00:42:45,440 --> 00:42:47,719
said they have they have twelve, you know, twelveish guys.

912
00:42:47,920 --> 00:42:51,199
So it's it's gonna be I don't say it's gonna

913
00:42:51,199 --> 00:42:53,599
be interesting. It'll probably be stressful. There's probably gonna be

914
00:42:53,639 --> 00:42:57,880
some some definite narrative structure that will come out of that,

915
00:42:57,920 --> 00:43:00,519
depending on who's happy or unhappy. But you know, winning

916
00:43:00,519 --> 00:43:02,639
cures all and hopefully the you know, a team that

917
00:43:02,719 --> 00:43:05,400
just got to the finals has that taste to where

918
00:43:05,440 --> 00:43:07,679
they can put aside things and try to get there again.

919
00:43:08,119 --> 00:43:10,280
Speaker 2: It does show like a level of belief in Jason

920
00:43:10,360 --> 00:43:13,119
Kidd or just what you're doing organizationally that they weren't

921
00:43:13,119 --> 00:43:15,960
worried about putting a club in Jason kids or the

922
00:43:16,000 --> 00:43:18,599
team's bag, that they might lean on too much and

923
00:43:18,639 --> 00:43:20,079
you don't want them to where it's like, okay, you

924
00:43:20,119 --> 00:43:22,559
have Quenton Grimes and jaydon Hardy, you might become too

925
00:43:22,599 --> 00:43:24,360
rely on Spencer Dinwoes. He's not what you need just

926
00:43:24,360 --> 00:43:27,119
because he's the quote unquote veteran. But to have him there,

927
00:43:27,119 --> 00:43:28,880
it seems like that's just no, we know what we're doing,

928
00:43:28,960 --> 00:43:31,039
like we're just gonna I've been using the hashtag try

929
00:43:31,039 --> 00:43:33,079
shit for a bunch of different teams throughout the stories.

930
00:43:33,480 --> 00:43:35,360
It seems like they're willing to experiment based off some

931
00:43:35,360 --> 00:43:37,840
of the stuff they did last year too. So I'm

932
00:43:37,840 --> 00:43:39,440
fascinated by their death because I think they have a

933
00:43:39,480 --> 00:43:41,159
lot of good things to figure out, but it's still

934
00:43:41,159 --> 00:43:44,559
stuff to figure out. Yeah, so obviously, and I think

935
00:43:44,559 --> 00:43:46,519
with this team it could be even more so. The

936
00:43:46,559 --> 00:43:48,760
crunch time lineups will be matchup dependent. But if you

937
00:43:48,840 --> 00:43:50,440
have to guess, what do you think ends up being

938
00:43:50,480 --> 00:43:52,679
their most user, most relied upon crunch time unit.

939
00:43:54,519 --> 00:43:57,679
Speaker 3: This is where the narratives are gonna come from. Clay

940
00:43:57,800 --> 00:44:00,960
was obviously very pissed that he was not in closing lineups,

941
00:44:01,639 --> 00:44:07,679
and I just think it's gotta be really, really variable

942
00:44:07,800 --> 00:44:10,719
because let's see, if you were wanting to throw out

943
00:44:10,719 --> 00:44:13,920
a defensive lineup for this team. Let's say you were

944
00:44:13,960 --> 00:44:17,119
trying to run run out the clock. Mavericks are up

945
00:44:17,119 --> 00:44:20,360
by fifteen, you you got four and a half minutes left.

946
00:44:20,800 --> 00:44:25,159
You can theoretically run a lineup with Luca, Naji Marshall,

947
00:44:25,880 --> 00:44:32,159
Quentin Grimes, Maxi Kleiba, and Derrek Cleveley. And you know, Luca,

948
00:44:32,360 --> 00:44:34,679
I just have I have belief that he's going to

949
00:44:34,719 --> 00:44:37,519
come into the season as a better defender. Luca with

950
00:44:37,559 --> 00:44:40,039
those four guys behind him, that's a tough team to

951
00:44:40,199 --> 00:44:42,800
It's a tougher team to score on. Then you know

952
00:44:42,880 --> 00:44:45,320
the starters that we talked about that have some some

953
00:44:46,239 --> 00:44:48,960
turnstiles on there. So it's I think it's going to

954
00:44:49,000 --> 00:44:53,000
be very matchup dependent and very situational. And this is

955
00:44:53,079 --> 00:44:56,519
that's where where where Jason Kidd has his work really

956
00:44:56,559 --> 00:44:58,920
really really cut out for him, and I am that's

957
00:44:58,920 --> 00:45:01,639
probably if if there's something that I'm not looking forward to,

958
00:45:02,199 --> 00:45:04,760
it's that sort of stuff because you would hope that

959
00:45:04,840 --> 00:45:07,119
winning trump's all. But at the same time, guys want

960
00:45:07,119 --> 00:45:09,960
to finish games and they want to start games. It's maddening.

961
00:45:10,599 --> 00:45:12,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, is there like I don't, I still kind of

962
00:45:12,880 --> 00:45:15,079
view it, and maybe you feel differently about PJ. Washington

963
00:45:15,159 --> 00:45:16,559
or the big It does feel like there might be

964
00:45:16,559 --> 00:45:20,000
four locks for gunch time when you look at Lively, Washington, Luca,

965
00:45:20,440 --> 00:45:22,760
and Kyrie and I view that Clay spot where whether

966
00:45:22,800 --> 00:45:24,440
it's dodging Marshall or if you want to go with

967
00:45:24,719 --> 00:45:26,800
I don't know why you would want maybe Quinton grinds

968
00:45:26,840 --> 00:45:29,239
in certain like areas, Is that the spot or could

969
00:45:29,239 --> 00:45:31,239
you see them fuzzing and fiddling elsewhere, whether it's with

970
00:45:31,280 --> 00:45:33,320
the Washington spot, is it will there be some matchups

971
00:45:33,400 --> 00:45:36,079
or maybe they're not closing with the traditional big.

972
00:45:36,400 --> 00:45:39,840
Speaker 3: I think they're the fusing with the Washington spot is

973
00:45:39,880 --> 00:45:43,880
going to be the the sort of sneaky angle of

974
00:45:43,920 --> 00:45:47,719
all this. I do think you're you're right about the

975
00:45:47,719 --> 00:45:51,360
the three. The Klay Thompson starting spot is going to

976
00:45:51,440 --> 00:45:53,360
be the one that's pretty obvious. But I do think

977
00:45:53,400 --> 00:45:56,119
that the PJ. Washington part of this is going to

978
00:45:56,159 --> 00:45:56,840
be interesting too.

979
00:45:57,280 --> 00:46:00,400
Speaker 2: Is there a weird, offbeat or funky line up you

980
00:46:00,400 --> 00:46:01,920
would like to see them try this season?

981
00:46:02,760 --> 00:46:10,280
Speaker 3: Oo? I do love so you mentioned Washington at the five,

982
00:46:10,719 --> 00:46:13,440
and I would love them to put like an uber

983
00:46:13,559 --> 00:46:17,800
small lineup where lucas the four, where he doesn't need

984
00:46:17,840 --> 00:46:22,320
to touch the ball, where you get Kyrie actually running point,

985
00:46:22,559 --> 00:46:26,679
and something like where Luca is essentially because I mean

986
00:46:26,719 --> 00:46:28,880
he has the size of a of a nineteen eighties

987
00:46:28,920 --> 00:46:31,119
power forward, Like why not just just put him down

988
00:46:31,159 --> 00:46:32,760
there and or you know, put him in a little

989
00:46:32,760 --> 00:46:35,119
bit of a different spot and see what happens. I

990
00:46:35,239 --> 00:46:37,239
just would have always sort of loved the idea of

991
00:46:37,320 --> 00:46:39,320
Luca at the four or the five now and then

992
00:46:39,320 --> 00:46:41,400
they've tried it a few times and it's been really fun.

993
00:46:43,400 --> 00:46:45,800
But I I it's just when you get it, when

994
00:46:45,800 --> 00:46:48,800
you get traditional bigs that are actually functional, it's hard

995
00:46:48,840 --> 00:46:50,800
to not play them. So I doubt they're gonna do

996
00:46:51,239 --> 00:46:53,920
I defthely do anything that He's not really kids, not

997
00:46:54,000 --> 00:46:57,199
Rick Carlisle, like Rick Carlisle would get. He's just like,

998
00:46:57,280 --> 00:46:59,760
what's the weirdest shit imaginable I can do and still

999
00:46:59,800 --> 00:47:02,719
get win? Like that's that's the Rick mindset. It's not

1000
00:47:02,920 --> 00:47:03,639
it's not kid.

1001
00:47:04,559 --> 00:47:07,280
Speaker 2: I want to see them go like ultra jumbo sized,

1002
00:47:07,400 --> 00:47:10,000
where it's like you have Lively and Luca and Washington,

1003
00:47:10,400 --> 00:47:13,199
then give me nausey. And I understand that Klay six seven,

1004
00:47:13,239 --> 00:47:15,159
but this is supposed to be a funky lineup. Let's

1005
00:47:15,159 --> 00:47:17,519
just throw mexicallyb out there and we'll use him, Washington

1006
00:47:17,599 --> 00:47:19,840
and uh Lively as the front line and we can

1007
00:47:19,920 --> 00:47:21,199
kind of see what happens.

1008
00:47:21,199 --> 00:47:22,960
Speaker 1: I don't know what that necessarily looks like, but who

1009
00:47:23,039 --> 00:47:25,320
is this is Luca the shortest player in that lineup

1010
00:47:25,360 --> 00:47:25,840
at that point?

1011
00:47:27,159 --> 00:47:30,679
Speaker 3: And I love crap like that, Like it's you know,

1012
00:47:31,280 --> 00:47:34,719
it's so funny when you see it's hard. It's hard

1013
00:47:34,760 --> 00:47:37,119
to tell on TV, I think because it's just you

1014
00:47:37,119 --> 00:47:38,480
get used to it. But then if you're ever in

1015
00:47:38,519 --> 00:47:40,800
a game one person, the way that they find, like

1016
00:47:40,960 --> 00:47:42,719
the guys take up so much space on the floor,

1017
00:47:42,840 --> 00:47:44,599
it's like, I'm almost shocked that they're able to get

1018
00:47:44,639 --> 00:47:46,800
shots off, and like a team like that would be

1019
00:47:46,840 --> 00:47:48,440
hilarious to watch score against.

1020
00:47:48,599 --> 00:47:50,719
Speaker 2: Before we get to their win total place in the West,

1021
00:47:50,760 --> 00:47:53,199
is there anything anyone that we haven't discussed that you

1022
00:47:53,239 --> 00:47:54,159
would like to touch upon?

1023
00:47:54,719 --> 00:47:56,320
Speaker 3: No, I think we're pretty good. Covered a lot of

1024
00:47:56,320 --> 00:47:56,960
bases here.

1025
00:47:57,719 --> 00:48:00,440
Speaker 2: So their win total as we record this is set

1026
00:48:00,519 --> 00:48:01,920
at forty nine and a half.

1027
00:48:02,239 --> 00:48:03,760
Speaker 1: Are you taking the over under on that?

1028
00:48:03,800 --> 00:48:04,960
Speaker 2: And where do you kind of like what are your

1029
00:48:04,960 --> 00:48:08,079
expectations for They're in a weird spot because they're near

1030
00:48:08,159 --> 00:48:09,719
the top of the West, Like, what are your expectations for?

1031
00:48:09,840 --> 00:48:11,719
Speaker 1: Is it top four that you're hoping there against?

1032
00:48:11,880 --> 00:48:14,400
Speaker 3: So I'm assuming the thunder are at the top. What's

1033
00:48:14,440 --> 00:48:15,239
their win total?

1034
00:48:16,000 --> 00:48:18,639
Speaker 1: Um, let me see, I do not have it pulled up.

1035
00:48:18,679 --> 00:48:20,840
Speaker 2: I think they were in the mid fifties if I

1036
00:48:20,880 --> 00:48:25,119
was not mistaken though, So they are at Oklahoma City

1037
00:48:25,239 --> 00:48:26,880
has fifty six and a half.

1038
00:48:26,960 --> 00:48:28,559
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that might actually be. I think I

1039
00:48:28,599 --> 00:48:29,920
saw them at fifty seven and a half.

1040
00:48:29,960 --> 00:48:32,320
Speaker 3: That's great and that's got to be frightening for a

1041
00:48:32,360 --> 00:48:35,960
betting point of view. But they're so stinking good. I

1042
00:48:36,000 --> 00:48:38,559
expect them to win like sixty two, like they're just

1043
00:48:38,960 --> 00:48:42,599
and so you know, I I would place the place

1044
00:48:42,599 --> 00:48:44,559
an over bet on that forty nine and a half

1045
00:48:44,599 --> 00:48:47,719
because the Mavericks won fifty last year exactly, they're fifty

1046
00:48:47,760 --> 00:48:50,639
and thirty two. I'm pretty sure I could be wrong.

1047
00:48:51,760 --> 00:48:53,519
Speaker 2: No, you were right, and that was with whatever the

1048
00:48:53,559 --> 00:48:56,480
hell was happening, like before they remade the roster.

1049
00:48:56,440 --> 00:48:59,760
Speaker 3: Right one they like this is the dirty secret? Is

1050
00:48:59,840 --> 00:49:07,960
j kids record in October, November, March, and April is

1051
00:49:08,159 --> 00:49:11,800
so much better with the Mavericks than the other three

1052
00:49:11,800 --> 00:49:19,159
months than November, December, January, in February. It drives me crazy. Anyway,

1053
00:49:19,239 --> 00:49:21,239
I would I would place an over bet because I

1054
00:49:21,280 --> 00:49:24,039
think that the Mavericks, if there's a goal to be

1055
00:49:24,519 --> 00:49:28,239
had for them, it is home court in the playoffs.

1056
00:49:28,559 --> 00:49:32,119
They have technically had home court one time in the

1057
00:49:32,159 --> 00:49:35,599
Lukadancic era, and it was actually against the Utah Jazz

1058
00:49:35,639 --> 00:49:38,840
when he was hurt and they lost Game one. Anyways,

1059
00:49:39,119 --> 00:49:42,400
they have one game one and a Jason kidds playoff

1060
00:49:42,440 --> 00:49:45,239
thing one time the entire and Jason Kidd, believe it

1061
00:49:45,320 --> 00:49:50,119
or not, already has more playoff series wins than Rick

1062
00:49:50,159 --> 00:49:53,559
Carlisle won a championship. So that's just sort of a

1063
00:49:53,599 --> 00:49:55,599
reminder of how hard it actually is to get out

1064
00:49:55,599 --> 00:49:57,320
of the first round in the NBA, because it's just

1065
00:49:57,360 --> 00:49:59,280
you know, it's one and done. You're done. And so

1066
00:49:59,360 --> 00:50:01,440
I think the Maverick need to establish home court. I

1067
00:50:01,480 --> 00:50:04,000
think they need to win about fifty five games, and

1068
00:50:04,440 --> 00:50:06,920
I think they they need to be fighting for a

1069
00:50:07,239 --> 00:50:09,840
for a I don't think anybody's touching the thunder. I

1070
00:50:09,880 --> 00:50:12,000
think they need to be fighting for that two three spot.

1071
00:50:13,079 --> 00:50:15,519
Speaker 2: The I this is the first one. I've done about

1072
00:50:15,519 --> 00:50:18,360
a dozen of these so far. The forty nine and a

1073
00:50:18,360 --> 00:50:20,159
half feels low. I've looked at all these other numbers.

1074
00:50:20,159 --> 00:50:21,559
I've been like, all right, like that makes sense. Forty

1075
00:50:21,639 --> 00:50:23,440
nine and a half feels really low for Dallas.

1076
00:50:25,239 --> 00:50:27,519
Speaker 3: It absolutely to me. It is because if you win

1077
00:50:27,559 --> 00:50:30,800
fifty and you make the finals, and you see sort

1078
00:50:30,840 --> 00:50:32,679
of a framework of a team that ought to be

1079
00:50:32,719 --> 00:50:35,159
pretty good. I would have assumed like fifty two and

1080
00:50:35,199 --> 00:50:38,400
a half. You know, something like that that really makes you,

1081
00:50:39,119 --> 00:50:41,440
really makes you because I think they hit that over easily,

1082
00:50:41,599 --> 00:50:44,960
and I sense I not not to be a homer

1083
00:50:45,000 --> 00:50:48,159
in this insance. It's just it's like they've with Luka

1084
00:50:48,239 --> 00:50:51,039
Doncic healthy and Jason Kidd at the Helm, they've won

1085
00:50:51,079 --> 00:50:54,079
fifty or more game twice and then made the conference

1086
00:50:54,079 --> 00:50:57,199
finals the NBA Finals, Like I just and maybe there's maybe,

1087
00:50:57,199 --> 00:50:59,400
but you know, maybe there's something there playing into the

1088
00:50:59,440 --> 00:51:01,679
history of the RCT. The fact that Jason Kidd doesn't

1089
00:51:02,000 --> 00:51:04,639
really have a very good regular season record, that's maybe

1090
00:51:04,639 --> 00:51:05,719
that's part of it.

1091
00:51:05,760 --> 00:51:06,559
Speaker 1: Is there really quickly?

1092
00:51:06,639 --> 00:51:07,960
Speaker 2: Is there any team though, like at the top of

1093
00:51:07,960 --> 00:51:09,280
the West or the West thing you find is like

1094
00:51:09,320 --> 00:51:11,840
the either the toughest or most fascinating matchup in a

1095
00:51:11,960 --> 00:51:14,360
perspective series or even just on a regular season where

1096
00:51:14,360 --> 00:51:15,400
you want to see Denver.

1097
00:51:15,599 --> 00:51:20,000
Speaker 3: The styles make fights things because you know Luca, if

1098
00:51:20,000 --> 00:51:21,880
you if you consider the Mavericks sort of a ball

1099
00:51:21,960 --> 00:51:24,800
like Luca heavy offense, and then you're playing against the Nuggets,

1100
00:51:24,840 --> 00:51:27,800
who are very much the balls. The ball is poppin'

1101
00:51:28,920 --> 00:51:31,920
and and the fact that the Mavericks, I mean, Nikola

1102
00:51:31,960 --> 00:51:34,079
Jokic to me is the best player in the world

1103
00:51:34,119 --> 00:51:37,039
by a margin. You know. I think Luca is in

1104
00:51:37,079 --> 00:51:40,000
that mix with the honest and and and embiid if

1105
00:51:40,000 --> 00:51:43,760
you're a sociopath, uh and just really and and there

1106
00:51:43,800 --> 00:51:46,440
there's a distance second and so I think that the nugget.

1107
00:51:46,480 --> 00:51:48,440
But the Nuggets also to me don't have the depth.

1108
00:51:49,559 --> 00:51:52,159
Speaker 1: No, they don't, right.

1109
00:51:52,360 --> 00:51:57,920
Speaker 3: Well, Michael Kid, Michael Crust, Michael Porter Jr. Is I

1110
00:51:58,119 --> 00:52:00,920
just have. I've feared him since high school in terms

1111
00:52:00,960 --> 00:52:03,440
of being a scorer because it's like when that guy

1112
00:52:03,480 --> 00:52:07,159
get finds his green light, there's no stopping him. And

1113
00:52:07,199 --> 00:52:09,519
he just like he shot awful in the playoffs last

1114
00:52:09,599 --> 00:52:11,760
year for them, and was I think kind of a

1115
00:52:11,800 --> 00:52:15,079
secret reason outside of Jamal Murray being injured in fat

1116
00:52:15,280 --> 00:52:17,360
as to why they lost. So it's like, if those

1117
00:52:17,360 --> 00:52:20,320
two things are right, those two to me, because you

1118
00:52:20,360 --> 00:52:22,519
remember they get like one of the great regular season

1119
00:52:22,559 --> 00:52:25,360
matchups was the Nuggets versus the Mavericks where Kyrie scored

1120
00:52:25,400 --> 00:52:29,000
that last second garbage lefty floater over Jokics. Like the

1121
00:52:29,039 --> 00:52:32,599
two teams just play. Really, it's it's just two different

1122
00:52:32,639 --> 00:52:35,079
brands of basketball, and I think that would be a

1123
00:52:35,119 --> 00:52:38,320
really fun series. But there other than the War, other

1124
00:52:38,400 --> 00:52:41,599
than the Oklahoma City Thunder, which to me now essentially

1125
00:52:41,599 --> 00:52:45,760
don't have weaknesses, the Nuggets are the team that I

1126
00:52:45,800 --> 00:52:48,159
think give the Mavericks the most run for their money.

1127
00:52:48,280 --> 00:52:51,159
Speaker 2: I am interested in the Thunder matchup with Isaiah Hartenstein,

1128
00:52:51,199 --> 00:52:52,639
though I don't know if it really pays to go

1129
00:52:52,760 --> 00:52:55,159
duel big against Dallas, like when PJ.

1130
00:52:55,360 --> 00:52:57,280
Speaker 1: Washington is their quote unquote second big.

1131
00:52:57,320 --> 00:52:59,920
Speaker 2: But I do think Hartenstein makes that matchup between Okay

1132
00:53:00,159 --> 00:53:01,320
in Dallas a lot more interesting.

1133
00:53:01,840 --> 00:53:05,320
Speaker 3: I mean just fun like Hartenstein, and because I don't

1134
00:53:05,320 --> 00:53:07,199
know if you remember this this one play, but like

1135
00:53:07,199 --> 00:53:09,840
they were trying to intentionally foul Lively and Lively was

1136
00:53:09,880 --> 00:53:14,719
just out running There's I'll say if I can send

1137
00:53:14,760 --> 00:53:16,320
it to you offline, but it really made me laugh

1138
00:53:16,360 --> 00:53:18,920
where it's like he is out running Chet, like it

1139
00:53:18,960 --> 00:53:22,239
looks like they're playing a game of tag. And Hartenstein

1140
00:53:22,320 --> 00:53:25,880
is just such a He's just such an energy monster,

1141
00:53:26,239 --> 00:53:28,280
like the guy like he was a guy that I

1142
00:53:28,320 --> 00:53:30,159
always wanted the Mavericks again and they just couldn't make

1143
00:53:30,159 --> 00:53:32,760
the money work. And it's like it's it's I mean,

1144
00:53:32,920 --> 00:53:34,880
she signed one of the biggest free agent contracts and

1145
00:53:35,079 --> 00:53:38,440
in Oklahoma City, so it's uh in history for them.

1146
00:53:38,519 --> 00:53:40,159
So it's they're They're just gonna be a really fun

1147
00:53:40,199 --> 00:53:44,800
team to watch. And I can't believe they got Caruso.

1148
00:53:45,079 --> 00:53:48,239
Caruso is a guy that I got in twenty nineteen.

1149
00:53:48,360 --> 00:53:50,400
So the twenty nineteen offseason for the Mavericks, which is

1150
00:53:50,400 --> 00:53:52,119
a year they got christte you know, they signed, they

1151
00:53:52,119 --> 00:53:55,199
got prizings from the net, Like they had a deal

1152
00:53:55,280 --> 00:53:58,000
in place to bring Caruso in and Cuban went back

1153
00:53:58,039 --> 00:54:02,119
on it and they signed they signed Boban instead, And

1154
00:54:02,199 --> 00:54:04,719
like it's one of those like sliding doors moments with me,

1155
00:54:05,320 --> 00:54:07,800
because I think Caruso would have been the kind of

1156
00:54:07,840 --> 00:54:10,519
guard to help take the Mavericks places because he's just

1157
00:54:10,559 --> 00:54:15,039
so He's just such a he's just such a utility guard.

1158
00:54:15,119 --> 00:54:17,880
He's just everything. I mean you wanted to shoot more anyway,

1159
00:54:17,920 --> 00:54:20,039
this is a.

1160
00:54:19,480 --> 00:54:21,440
Speaker 2: Now and he's somehow been undervalued by each of his

1161
00:54:21,480 --> 00:54:23,159
two teams when you look at the Lakers running him

1162
00:54:23,159 --> 00:54:25,079
walk and then whatever the hell Chicago just did. But

1163
00:54:26,159 --> 00:54:29,199
not a Bulls podcast, Kirk, this was great as always.

1164
00:54:29,199 --> 00:54:31,159
Are you just able to tell our listeners where they

1165
00:54:31,199 --> 00:54:32,760
can find you and all the great work that you do.

1166
00:54:33,239 --> 00:54:35,639
Speaker 3: So earlier in the show, I briefly forgot the name

1167
00:54:35,679 --> 00:54:38,239
of my own podcast when I said a Mavericks podcast.

1168
00:54:38,280 --> 00:54:43,559
That's because it's called a pod Maverick. And then our

1169
00:54:44,119 --> 00:54:47,760
website is mavsmoneyball dot com. I just got done bringing

1170
00:54:47,760 --> 00:54:50,800
on nine new volunteers. I'm looking forward to see what

1171
00:54:50,920 --> 00:54:53,719
things are written about Mavericks in the coming weeks and months,

1172
00:54:53,760 --> 00:54:57,440
and it's it's certainly going to be an exciting and

1173
00:54:57,480 --> 00:54:59,079
weird basketball season. I can't wait.

1174
00:55:00,039 --> 00:55:01,920
Speaker 1: Sure to subscribe to Pop Maverick. The link will be

1175
00:55:01,920 --> 00:55:03,320
in the podcasting YouTube description.

1176
00:55:03,559 --> 00:55:05,360
Speaker 2: Kirk, as you know by now, I'll be best bring you

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again down the line and thank you so much for

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your time.

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Speaker 3: Happy day man h