WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.080 --> 00:00:02.120 Hey guys, it's Jack. I just wanted to talk to 2 00:00:02.160 --> 00:00:04.679 you today about a way that you can help support 3 00:00:04.719 --> 00:00:08.199 the podcast if you're not already to support the channel 4 00:00:08.480 --> 00:00:11.919 is to become a Patreon member. So we have Patreon 5 00:00:11.960 --> 00:00:14.919 memberships that start at just five dollars a month, and 6 00:00:15.080 --> 00:00:17.600 when you sign up, you get access to all of 7 00:00:17.640 --> 00:00:20.839 our episodes add free. That's the big bonus for that. 8 00:00:21.039 --> 00:00:24.000 I mean, we also do some Patreon bonus episodes for 9 00:00:24.079 --> 00:00:27.920 our subscribers, but this is the biggest and best way 10 00:00:27.960 --> 00:00:32.320 that you can support the Teamhouse channel and podcast if 11 00:00:32.320 --> 00:00:35.280 you'd like to, and we really appreciate that, So go 12 00:00:35.439 --> 00:00:39.039 and check us out at patreon dot com. Slash The Teamhouse, 13 00:00:42.719 --> 00:00:45.759 Special Operations. 14 00:00:46.920 --> 00:00:55.600 Coberts a Spionage The Team House with your Hopes, Jack 15 00:00:55.679 --> 00:00:58.079 Murphy and David Park. 16 00:01:03.079 --> 00:01:05.599 Hey everyone, welcome to episode two hundred and ninety one 17 00:01:05.680 --> 00:01:08.079 of The Teamhouse. I'm Jack Murphy here with David Park 18 00:01:08.680 --> 00:01:11.760 and tonight our guest on the show is Mike Shavery. 19 00:01:12.159 --> 00:01:15.519 He served in a Third Ranger Battalion as a medic 20 00:01:15.560 --> 00:01:18.680 where I knew him back in the day, and then 21 00:01:18.719 --> 00:01:21.000 he went on had a great career as a special 22 00:01:21.000 --> 00:01:26.120 operations medic, including service in the Joint Medical Augmentation Unit 23 00:01:27.079 --> 00:01:30.400 and retired as a Sergeant major. We're really excited to 24 00:01:30.400 --> 00:01:33.439 talk to Mike Tonight. Really been looking forward to this 25 00:01:33.519 --> 00:01:35.799 episode for quite a while. I got to give a 26 00:01:35.879 --> 00:01:37.840 quick shout out to one of our sponsors before we 27 00:01:37.879 --> 00:01:41.719 get into it. I've been smoking a Sovereign number three 28 00:01:41.840 --> 00:01:45.879 from Caman Cigars. 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Head to 46 00:02:45.199 --> 00:02:48.000 Kman Cigars dot com slash Teamhouse to check out our 47 00:02:48.039 --> 00:02:51.280 sampler while supplies last, and use the code Teamhouse for 48 00:02:51.360 --> 00:02:54.400 ten percent off your order. Once again, that's Caman Cigars 49 00:02:54.479 --> 00:02:59.680 with an s dot com backslash Teamhouse for ten percent off, 50 00:03:00.039 --> 00:03:03.080 and make sure you use my promo code Teamhouse so 51 00:03:03.120 --> 00:03:06.560 they know that we sent you there. And I've been 52 00:03:06.719 --> 00:03:09.919 enjoying this one and a few others from their sample pack, 53 00:03:10.080 --> 00:03:11.919 so I hope you guys will go and check them out. 54 00:03:11.919 --> 00:03:16.439 We appreciate them sponsoring the show. Mike, Welcome to the podcast. 55 00:03:18.319 --> 00:03:20.360 Hey, thanks guys, and I apologize I couldn't be there 56 00:03:20.400 --> 00:03:23.319 in person. I really wanted to be, but we just 57 00:03:23.360 --> 00:03:26.039 moved into the South up in Maine and it's been 58 00:03:26.199 --> 00:03:26.919 a little crazy. 59 00:03:27.000 --> 00:03:33.280 So yeah, next time, You're welcome here anytime. So, Mike, 60 00:03:33.319 --> 00:03:35.960 I'm going to ask you what I asked most of 61 00:03:36.000 --> 00:03:38.759 our guests about their upbringing, if you tell us a 62 00:03:38.759 --> 00:03:40.840 little bit about sort of like how you grew up 63 00:03:40.919 --> 00:03:44.360 and like what that path was that took you towards 64 00:03:44.360 --> 00:03:45.599 eventually Ranger Battalion. 65 00:03:47.599 --> 00:03:50.639 Sure, so I didn't come from a military background that 66 00:03:50.639 --> 00:03:53.360 I didn't have family in the military. For the most part. 67 00:03:54.280 --> 00:03:56.199 We grew up here in Maine, most of my family 68 00:03:56.520 --> 00:04:01.400 in a twenty thirty mile radius, but grown up through uh, 69 00:04:02.000 --> 00:04:05.000 you know, elementary school and and and then beyond. I 70 00:04:05.080 --> 00:04:07.120 was a kid at Rose Plane Army in the woods 71 00:04:07.159 --> 00:04:13.080 and had camouflage passed down from friends and stuff like that, 72 00:04:13.199 --> 00:04:17.920 so it just kind of seemed like it would be interesting. 73 00:04:18.040 --> 00:04:21.720 I didn't have any knowledge from anybody else or anything 74 00:04:21.800 --> 00:04:25.399 like that. But and this is you know, obviously preview 75 00:04:25.439 --> 00:04:28.360 a lot. Even the military back then is not quite 76 00:04:28.360 --> 00:04:31.160 what we know it is today. So I think I 77 00:04:31.160 --> 00:04:33.360 didn't really know that I really wanted to do it 78 00:04:33.439 --> 00:04:36.560 until I was about a sophomore junior in high school 79 00:04:37.120 --> 00:04:40.000 and I joined the National Guard and did that little 80 00:04:40.000 --> 00:04:42.720 split off program where I went to basic training in 81 00:04:42.720 --> 00:04:45.720 between my junior senior year. I signed up to be 82 00:04:45.759 --> 00:04:48.600 a diesel mechanic, and I thought that's what I wanted 83 00:04:48.600 --> 00:04:53.600 to do at the time, but finished high school and 84 00:04:53.879 --> 00:04:56.839 went straight to a I t as a deist of 85 00:04:56.920 --> 00:05:01.800 mechanic and graduated September six thousand and one, so a 86 00:05:01.879 --> 00:05:05.240 few days later. That's kind of when the story completely changed. 87 00:05:05.800 --> 00:05:11.959 But as far as my bringing up, it's very unremarkable. 88 00:05:12.000 --> 00:05:15.000 I suppose we were very tight as a family, but 89 00:05:15.480 --> 00:05:19.120 it didn't come for money, didn't come from luxury one bit. 90 00:05:19.279 --> 00:05:21.879 But you know, we did have a pretty tight family 91 00:05:21.959 --> 00:05:25.759 and very supportive and they still are. So they're still 92 00:05:25.800 --> 00:05:29.639 here in Maine. That's mostly why we moved back to 93 00:05:30.480 --> 00:05:31.040 family again. 94 00:05:31.199 --> 00:05:35.879 So you are a diesel mechanic when nine to eleven hits, 95 00:05:36.560 --> 00:05:38.160 what happened for you after that? 96 00:05:39.680 --> 00:05:44.839 Yeah, so I got to call pretty much right as 97 00:05:45.279 --> 00:05:47.199 right after it happened, and I had to report up 98 00:05:47.240 --> 00:05:49.920 to Bangor for Operation over Legal. I think this was 99 00:05:50.040 --> 00:05:53.079 kind of before they dubbed it Operation of Legal, but 100 00:05:53.759 --> 00:05:57.000 they did a gate guard for all the National Guard 101 00:05:57.000 --> 00:06:00.720 Reserve training sites, and this is the Bangor Internet report 102 00:06:00.800 --> 00:06:01.680 that we were there. 103 00:06:02.160 --> 00:06:06.079 Securing, if you will, And so I did that for. 104 00:06:08.199 --> 00:06:10.079 Oh, I don't know about a year, So it is 105 00:06:11.079 --> 00:06:13.120 one hundred and seventy nine day orders and then they'll 106 00:06:13.120 --> 00:06:14.560 put you on orders again so they don't have to 107 00:06:14.560 --> 00:06:19.360 pay the full benefits. Looking back, those probably kind of shoddy, 108 00:06:19.399 --> 00:06:23.480 but nonetheless, one of the first news articles I saw 109 00:06:23.600 --> 00:06:26.800 back then was, you know, Third Range of Battalion had 110 00:06:26.879 --> 00:06:31.920 two casualties stone side for Edmonton, like right away helicopter incident, 111 00:06:32.040 --> 00:06:35.759 and then also you know, they conducted a combat jump 112 00:06:35.800 --> 00:06:38.519 in Afghanistan. So that was pretty much all the news 113 00:06:39.360 --> 00:06:42.399 back in the day. So I knew that I wanted. 114 00:06:42.160 --> 00:06:43.560 To go active. I enjoyed the. 115 00:06:43.600 --> 00:06:46.319 Active lifestyle, even though it was the National Guard, I 116 00:06:46.399 --> 00:06:50.959 still enjoyed the uniform stuff and doing all that, and 117 00:06:51.000 --> 00:06:52.720 so I think as soon as I could get my 118 00:06:52.759 --> 00:06:57.600 conditional release, I set my goals right on Third Range 119 00:06:57.639 --> 00:07:00.480 of Battalion specifically. And it's kind of cool warning too, 120 00:07:00.480 --> 00:07:02.480 but that's like right around the time black Hawk Down 121 00:07:02.560 --> 00:07:05.560 came out, and it was kind of impressionable at the time. 122 00:07:05.680 --> 00:07:07.399 So I figured, if I was going to do something, 123 00:07:07.680 --> 00:07:11.639 I might as well do it right. And so I 124 00:07:11.759 --> 00:07:14.879 talked to the recruiter about switching over, and I knew 125 00:07:14.920 --> 00:07:17.000 I didn't want to be a mechanic. I actually wanted 126 00:07:17.040 --> 00:07:20.800 to be infantry, but they said it wasn't available look 127 00:07:20.839 --> 00:07:22.839 him back once again. I think I got deep there. 128 00:07:23.040 --> 00:07:26.839 So they signed me up as a medic, and at 129 00:07:26.839 --> 00:07:28.240 the time I didn't even want to be a medic. 130 00:07:28.399 --> 00:07:30.560 They're like, well they're you know, they're with the infantry, 131 00:07:30.680 --> 00:07:35.839 so you know you could do that. And so I 132 00:07:35.839 --> 00:07:39.240 went through the whole process and they they always say 133 00:07:39.240 --> 00:07:42.199 that recruiters kind of stream over. I actually did get 134 00:07:42.199 --> 00:07:45.800 screwed over, but it worked out. The only way that 135 00:07:45.839 --> 00:07:48.759 could get me in a contract for medic was to 136 00:07:48.759 --> 00:07:51.000 say that I was not prior service. So I actually 137 00:07:51.040 --> 00:07:53.720 went down to Fort Benning again. If I already lead 138 00:07:53.759 --> 00:07:56.160 a basic training, I agreed to do basic training again 139 00:07:56.319 --> 00:07:59.879 because I wanted to go active and I thought this 140 00:08:00.079 --> 00:08:02.680 whole Afghanistan thing is going to be a one year, 141 00:08:02.759 --> 00:08:04.399 two year thing, and I wanted to get in there. 142 00:08:04.439 --> 00:08:08.120 But so I went down to repeat basic training again 143 00:08:08.160 --> 00:08:10.120 and the girls startants came out and they're like, hey, 144 00:08:10.160 --> 00:08:12.079 you know it was anybody prior service. I raised my 145 00:08:12.120 --> 00:08:13.639 hand and of course I looked like I was twelve 146 00:08:13.720 --> 00:08:16.319 years old, and they're like, when did you go through 147 00:08:16.319 --> 00:08:18.560 basic training? I was like, you know, about a year ago, 148 00:08:19.279 --> 00:08:22.120 and so they identified that I didn't have to do 149 00:08:22.199 --> 00:08:24.839 basic training again, they sent me straight to ports things 150 00:08:24.959 --> 00:08:29.959 and so I kind of dodged that for Yeah, but 151 00:08:30.079 --> 00:08:35.559 even then, there was really no information about rangers what 152 00:08:35.600 --> 00:08:39.279 they do, especially the Ranger Regiment. I think everything at 153 00:08:39.279 --> 00:08:41.919 that time was you know, a ranger meant range. The 154 00:08:41.960 --> 00:08:45.120 tab regiment was you know that knew they had black 155 00:08:45.159 --> 00:08:48.279 parraise at the time, and there was no information. I 156 00:08:48.279 --> 00:08:52.519 think that probably like motivated me even more to join 157 00:08:52.559 --> 00:08:56.159 the organization. So I kind of set my sights on 158 00:08:56.200 --> 00:08:59.000 that and every step of the way, whether I was 159 00:08:59.000 --> 00:09:01.919 at at Hadounteer for Airborne school and his airborne school, 160 00:09:02.000 --> 00:09:06.279 had to volunteer for RIP and it pretty much just 161 00:09:06.360 --> 00:09:08.039 worked out so pretty lucky there. 162 00:09:10.519 --> 00:09:15.519 So yeah, thinking keeping in mind the track for combat medics, 163 00:09:15.720 --> 00:09:18.519 you had to go to your conventional combat medic a 164 00:09:18.799 --> 00:09:21.360 T after you were blessed off at basic. 165 00:09:22.799 --> 00:09:24.639 Yeah, that's sixteen week long. 166 00:09:24.840 --> 00:09:26.600 And like I said, I didn't even want to be 167 00:09:26.639 --> 00:09:30.559 a medics so and I didn't know anything about medicine, 168 00:09:31.200 --> 00:09:34.559 didn't really care for it too much. So did the 169 00:09:34.600 --> 00:09:38.960 whole sixteen week program. And you know, as we discussed 170 00:09:38.960 --> 00:09:41.879 going on further as throughout my career, I realized how 171 00:09:41.960 --> 00:09:44.759 much of a complete waste of time doing the sixteen 172 00:09:44.759 --> 00:09:50.000 Whiskey program was but thankfully now they've kind of straightened 173 00:09:50.000 --> 00:09:51.679 it out and it's a pretty good program now. So 174 00:09:52.399 --> 00:09:54.600 and it was kind of difficult too, because I knew 175 00:09:54.600 --> 00:09:56.120 I was doing it, and I knew it was kind 176 00:09:56.120 --> 00:09:58.840 of a waste of time because at that time I 177 00:09:58.840 --> 00:10:01.200 had learned a little bit about what Stockham was a 178 00:10:01.360 --> 00:10:05.080 special Operation of combat medic course, and most of the 179 00:10:05.120 --> 00:10:08.279 people I had talked to that had been or tried 180 00:10:08.279 --> 00:10:10.840 to go and failed out or whatever we're saying, it 181 00:10:10.879 --> 00:10:13.639 was like the hardest school they've ever done, and pretty 182 00:10:13.679 --> 00:10:17.120 much forget everything you're learning now. So I already kind 183 00:10:17.120 --> 00:10:20.320 of went into the sixty eight Whiskey program thinking, you know, 184 00:10:20.559 --> 00:10:22.799 just I might have to brain dumple all of this stuff. 185 00:10:22.799 --> 00:10:27.840 And it was very basic, very you know just I 186 00:10:27.879 --> 00:10:30.240 think at the time, turn of kits were still taboos. 187 00:10:30.279 --> 00:10:34.480 So I think my biggest disconcern with all of it 188 00:10:34.480 --> 00:10:37.279 it wasn't very combat focused. Yeah, I think it was 189 00:10:37.320 --> 00:10:39.840 even like healthcare specialists at the time, and it wasn't 190 00:10:39.919 --> 00:10:41.360 a very combat focused. 191 00:10:41.039 --> 00:10:43.200 And I joined for you know, I point that route 192 00:10:43.240 --> 00:10:43.679 for a reason. 193 00:10:43.759 --> 00:10:46.200 But I was a little bit disappointed with that, but 194 00:10:47.279 --> 00:10:50.159 I think they straightened that out nowadays too. So yeah, 195 00:10:50.200 --> 00:10:53.679 the whole sixteen weeks was pretty much I was considered 196 00:10:53.759 --> 00:10:56.320 prior service at a T, so my experience was vastly 197 00:10:56.360 --> 00:11:00.399 different because that was already AI, a qualified or whatever. 198 00:11:00.519 --> 00:11:03.799 So I had weekends off and we're allowed to wear 199 00:11:03.840 --> 00:11:07.360 civilian clothes. So it was the experience of it really 200 00:11:07.440 --> 00:11:09.440 wasn't that. I met a lot of great friends that 201 00:11:09.519 --> 00:11:14.080 I still talk to today on a weekly basis. So 202 00:11:15.320 --> 00:11:17.120 it was a pretty good experience that as far as 203 00:11:17.120 --> 00:11:17.720 that's concerned. 204 00:11:17.879 --> 00:11:19.960 When you say that the course wasn't that good, I'm 205 00:11:20.000 --> 00:11:23.840 assuming it's because they were preparing you for any job 206 00:11:24.039 --> 00:11:25.919 in a hospital that you could have in the military. 207 00:11:26.000 --> 00:11:29.399 So you know, you like some time in labs, you know, 208 00:11:29.440 --> 00:11:31.919 with labs, with radiology, with a lot of stuff that 209 00:11:32.039 --> 00:11:34.080 just was not applicable. Is that correct? 210 00:11:35.080 --> 00:11:36.000 Yeah, that is correct. 211 00:11:36.000 --> 00:11:38.879 And I think a big problem that it had, and 212 00:11:39.759 --> 00:11:42.399 you know, I think that they might still have to 213 00:11:42.440 --> 00:11:44.799 deal with today, is the credentialing piece. 214 00:11:44.879 --> 00:11:48.080 So you have to be at least an anti basics and. 215 00:11:48.080 --> 00:11:50.120 So I think that's a good thing, but it's also 216 00:11:50.159 --> 00:11:53.919 a bad thing because you know, a medic Combat Medican 217 00:11:54.080 --> 00:11:58.000 Army is well beyond anti basic. But I think the 218 00:11:58.360 --> 00:12:00.960 reason why they wanted to do that is as folks 219 00:12:01.080 --> 00:12:04.200 transition out of the military, uh, you know, they were 220 00:12:04.200 --> 00:12:07.200 going on unemployment and you know, they had nothing to 221 00:12:07.240 --> 00:12:10.480 really fall back on, and so having this certification I 222 00:12:10.480 --> 00:12:12.200 think kind of helped them out a little bit. But 223 00:12:12.240 --> 00:12:15.679 the problem is that the anti basic you can't really 224 00:12:15.720 --> 00:12:20.440 do a whole lot rather than wise and so we 225 00:12:20.559 --> 00:12:24.240 had to train up for several weeks to pass an exam, 226 00:12:24.320 --> 00:12:27.080 and as soon as that was done, it was like, okay, 227 00:12:27.080 --> 00:12:31.159 we'll forget all that. You know, here's combat medicine, which 228 00:12:31.240 --> 00:12:34.480 was a little bit better than anti basic. So I 229 00:12:34.519 --> 00:12:36.919 think that the way it was structured was a little 230 00:12:36.960 --> 00:12:41.159 bit ineffective. And you know, if I was starting major 231 00:12:41.200 --> 00:12:43.000 of the world, I used to say when I was 232 00:12:43.000 --> 00:12:46.000 in uniform, I would have probably liked to have seen 233 00:12:46.399 --> 00:12:50.799 the six eight risky combat medic kind of mirror the infantry. 234 00:12:50.879 --> 00:12:53.240 So you're going down there, it's oh, sit, here's your rifle, 235 00:12:53.440 --> 00:12:56.799 because even as the combat medic, my rifle is you know, 236 00:12:57.039 --> 00:12:59.919 it's my lifeline there. So you know, you got your right. 237 00:13:00.080 --> 00:13:03.399 So here's your aid bag and you're integrated with the infantry, 238 00:13:03.480 --> 00:13:06.360 and I think that's a really big problem nowadays because 239 00:13:06.360 --> 00:13:08.759 they graduated sixty was, of course, and they haven't shot 240 00:13:08.799 --> 00:13:12.440 a rifle a month and they haven't maneuvered at all 241 00:13:12.600 --> 00:13:16.159 with the infantrymen that they're now potentially deploying with, and 242 00:13:16.360 --> 00:13:19.919 I see that as a huge capability gap. Yeah, so, 243 00:13:19.960 --> 00:13:22.440 I you know, those are all the things I was thinking, 244 00:13:22.519 --> 00:13:24.919 you know, while I was there, and also looking back, 245 00:13:24.960 --> 00:13:26.559 I see that as a massive problem. 246 00:13:26.840 --> 00:13:29.679 Yeah, so you finished that and then it's off to 247 00:13:29.799 --> 00:13:30.919 Airborne School and RIP. 248 00:13:31.039 --> 00:13:34.679 Right, Yeah, that's correct. 249 00:13:34.720 --> 00:13:37.679 So we were training up. I did have Airborne. I 250 00:13:37.720 --> 00:13:39.799 have to think back as several years ago, but I'm 251 00:13:39.799 --> 00:13:43.559 pretty sure I had Airborne locked into my contract. And 252 00:13:43.679 --> 00:13:46.679 at the time we had AKO and I pulled up 253 00:13:46.720 --> 00:13:49.919 AKO and it said I was destined for port Hoods. 254 00:13:49.960 --> 00:13:52.480 So I was. I was ready to jump out of 255 00:13:52.519 --> 00:13:56.960 window at that time. But they had this little group 256 00:13:57.039 --> 00:14:02.039 that could volunteer for RIP. So I'm not sure if 257 00:14:02.080 --> 00:14:05.240 I volunteered for RIP at I think I volunteered at 258 00:14:05.279 --> 00:14:08.879 Airborne school, but we were like preparing for it at 259 00:14:09.480 --> 00:14:11.960 the citate was forced. There was cadre there that we're 260 00:14:11.960 --> 00:14:15.120 familiar with it, so that definitely helped us out a 261 00:14:15.159 --> 00:14:15.559 little bit. 262 00:14:16.639 --> 00:14:19.639 So when when we were catching up the other day, 263 00:14:19.720 --> 00:14:21.639 we kind of realized that we probably went through the 264 00:14:21.679 --> 00:14:24.360 same RIP course in two thousand and three. 265 00:14:26.559 --> 00:14:29.480 Yeah, yeah, I'm pretty sure we did, and it was 266 00:14:29.519 --> 00:14:31.960 looking back, it was a pretty rigorous course. I think 267 00:14:31.960 --> 00:14:35.200 we only had twenty five twenty six people make it, 268 00:14:35.480 --> 00:14:38.360 but it was it was pretty rugged. I think it's 269 00:14:38.399 --> 00:14:41.120 relative because at the time, I don't think I did anything. 270 00:14:40.799 --> 00:14:46.399 Hard, but you know, going through that, it was it 271 00:14:46.480 --> 00:14:49.840 was quite a tough. That's so glad they've changed it now. 272 00:14:49.919 --> 00:14:53.399 Now it's more of an assessment selection, so you're learning 273 00:14:53.440 --> 00:14:55.759 something because even in rip, you know, I went through 274 00:14:55.879 --> 00:14:58.240 and it was great, and I finally got my tanbaret 275 00:14:58.360 --> 00:15:01.399 and put on my Ranger painties with my little teeny legs, 276 00:15:01.759 --> 00:15:04.039 but I really didn't know how to be a ranger. 277 00:15:04.399 --> 00:15:07.639 And so you know, in today's uh, you know, rafts 278 00:15:07.799 --> 00:15:10.600 one and two, I think they're vastly more prepared than 279 00:15:10.679 --> 00:15:13.799 we were at the time. Yeah back then, and I 280 00:15:13.799 --> 00:15:15.679 think a lot of people even use rips his way 281 00:15:15.720 --> 00:15:17.919 to get to Airborne school. So I know, for facts, 282 00:15:17.919 --> 00:15:19.559 some dudes were like well, now that I'm here, you know, 283 00:15:19.600 --> 00:15:21.440 they'd already got the jump wings or like I quit 284 00:15:21.519 --> 00:15:25.960 on day one, like what a massive misused of uh 285 00:15:26.039 --> 00:15:27.080 you know, floot or whatever. 286 00:15:27.159 --> 00:15:30.039 But that was a lot of folks and in the first. 287 00:15:29.840 --> 00:15:33.240 Few days I think we got released one hundred probably, 288 00:15:33.840 --> 00:15:36.799 but there's some notable folks that were in our class, 289 00:15:37.360 --> 00:15:39.159 so I think that's why we probably were in the 290 00:15:39.200 --> 00:15:39.639 same plat. 291 00:15:41.840 --> 00:15:46.759 I So get to Ranger Battalion that summer, tell us 292 00:15:46.799 --> 00:15:48.639 about what, well, no, I'm sorry, you have to go 293 00:15:48.679 --> 00:15:51.519 to first. You have to you got to go to 294 00:15:51.519 --> 00:15:52.399 Soccam before that. 295 00:15:53.519 --> 00:15:58.159 Yeah, so Balckham was h Man. That was something else. 296 00:15:58.679 --> 00:16:04.200 So you know, you're at RIP and everything is very indoctrinated, 297 00:16:04.240 --> 00:16:07.279 no fund and tender, but it's it's very you know, Ranger, 298 00:16:07.279 --> 00:16:10.240 you're running around, you're yelling, you're quantity easier. I mean, 299 00:16:10.279 --> 00:16:13.279 it's very very strict. And then you get to sock 300 00:16:13.360 --> 00:16:17.320 them and like the first day I'm snapping to break 301 00:16:17.440 --> 00:16:20.279 rest and you know, we had some stef instructors and 302 00:16:20.279 --> 00:16:24.120 stuff and they're just like whoa you here. 303 00:16:26.080 --> 00:16:27.279 It's quite a culture chain. 304 00:16:27.919 --> 00:16:31.759 But we also had masters Gardant Black, Perry Black retired 305 00:16:31.799 --> 00:16:36.320 now a wonderful human being. So he would be looking, 306 00:16:36.559 --> 00:16:38.720 you know, from the back to see how we're reacting, 307 00:16:38.759 --> 00:16:43.240 because he was extremely strict. I was going through the course, 308 00:16:43.840 --> 00:16:47.240 so it was kind of like it's like having a 309 00:16:47.320 --> 00:16:50.320 dad that's that's that's really disciplined, and then I'm mom, 310 00:16:50.320 --> 00:16:53.720 that's laid back. So the guys, you know, I agree 311 00:16:53.759 --> 00:16:55.960 with the way they were. I think that there's a 312 00:16:56.000 --> 00:16:58.679 time and a place for the rank and the structure, 313 00:16:58.759 --> 00:17:02.000 and when you're in you know, this this fire hose 314 00:17:02.320 --> 00:17:05.359 of a medical course where you're there to learn. It 315 00:17:05.440 --> 00:17:08.079 was a lot easier to learn when it was a 316 00:17:08.119 --> 00:17:09.559 little bit more of a laugh. Right. 317 00:17:10.400 --> 00:17:13.880 SOCCA is like very very academically rigorous, isn't it. 318 00:17:14.839 --> 00:17:17.400 Yeah, it's it's one of the it's the hardest I 319 00:17:17.400 --> 00:17:19.799 think to this day, minus probably static on jump Master. 320 00:17:19.880 --> 00:17:24.559 It's it's one of the hardest like mentally courses I've 321 00:17:24.559 --> 00:17:29.160 ever done. So and it's very like you know, math 322 00:17:29.319 --> 00:17:34.880 and pharmacology. And I think the big difference between that 323 00:17:35.079 --> 00:17:37.400 and it's the sixty eight whisky course too, is the 324 00:17:37.440 --> 00:17:42.720 sixty eight whiskey course is more of an algorithm, pretty 325 00:17:42.759 --> 00:17:45.079 much like I have massive memorage. This is what I 326 00:17:45.119 --> 00:17:46.640 do for it, but you get to stock them, and 327 00:17:46.680 --> 00:17:49.799 it's more of they teach you how to think, so 328 00:17:49.880 --> 00:17:52.200 you get that prolely a touch of the prolonged field 329 00:17:52.240 --> 00:17:54.839 care and you know you're putting a tourniquet on because 330 00:17:55.240 --> 00:17:57.519 you're trying to preserve that blood and you're trying to 331 00:17:57.599 --> 00:17:59.359 keep them warm, and this is why you're doing it. 332 00:17:59.680 --> 00:18:03.039 Versus sixty whiskey force. That was more of you know, 333 00:18:03.079 --> 00:18:06.400 you do your treatment and move on. So it really 334 00:18:06.440 --> 00:18:10.720 forced its folks to think way down the line instead 335 00:18:10.759 --> 00:18:13.160 of just what your with some furniture faith and I 336 00:18:13.240 --> 00:18:14.759 think I really appreciated that. 337 00:18:15.119 --> 00:18:17.319 And and trauma care was going through a lot of 338 00:18:17.400 --> 00:18:18.680 changes at that time too. 339 00:18:18.559 --> 00:18:22.400 Right, Oh, it was, Oh, it's unbelievable. It was so 340 00:18:22.480 --> 00:18:25.759 Like I mentioned before, tourniquits were taboo. I did the 341 00:18:25.880 --> 00:18:27.400 combat life stave a course when I was in the 342 00:18:27.480 --> 00:18:30.640 National Guard, and it was like elevates your arm and 343 00:18:30.720 --> 00:18:33.519 put ice on it, and then it was like and 344 00:18:33.559 --> 00:18:36.000 then maybe a tourniquit and then if you put a 345 00:18:36.039 --> 00:18:38.880 tourniquite on, prepared to lose the limb. And we've gone 346 00:18:38.920 --> 00:18:42.480 so far from that. And I think, you know, the 347 00:18:42.519 --> 00:18:46.759 early globe warrant Sarism, plus you know Somalia, all the 348 00:18:46.759 --> 00:18:49.160 stuff that happened there, you know, in the development of 349 00:18:49.200 --> 00:18:53.759 the Committee of Tuatriplec and and then really saturating the 350 00:18:53.880 --> 00:18:58.359 special operations community with good medicine and medics who can 351 00:18:59.440 --> 00:19:03.519 also train organizations and training within themselves I think made 352 00:19:03.519 --> 00:19:07.640 the biggest difference. But I think that was probably the 353 00:19:07.680 --> 00:19:13.200 biggest contributing factor was you know, in throughout the years 354 00:19:13.200 --> 00:19:16.599 of ge what we've seen these organizations given back to 355 00:19:16.680 --> 00:19:19.240 that Committee of Tea Tripacy and the Joint Trauma System 356 00:19:19.359 --> 00:19:24.559 to just constantly, constantly develop medicine. And I think it's remarkable. 357 00:19:24.599 --> 00:19:27.559 And that's even just calmb that medicine. You know, we 358 00:19:27.640 --> 00:19:32.440 haven't even touched into like you know, orthosurgery, damage control, susptation, 359 00:19:33.000 --> 00:19:35.599 you know, sure upside about that later, but we learned 360 00:19:35.599 --> 00:19:38.480 so much more about those things too. So it was 361 00:19:39.000 --> 00:19:41.559 it was going through a period where literally a lot 362 00:19:41.599 --> 00:19:43.400 of the things I learned in the Six State Whisky 363 00:19:43.400 --> 00:19:46.920 course it was absolete. And it's you people. Yeah, so 364 00:19:48.119 --> 00:19:50.960 you know, now we've transitioned to this medicine which was 365 00:19:51.799 --> 00:19:56.279 it was so new at that time. But it's good, 366 00:19:56.559 --> 00:19:59.799 it's good that it got put into that program with 367 00:20:00.119 --> 00:20:03.359 listed medics and PA's that already had that experience, and 368 00:20:04.000 --> 00:20:04.960 it definitely helped out. 369 00:20:05.519 --> 00:20:09.640 So you make it through the course. Now you're going 370 00:20:09.720 --> 00:20:12.839 back to the seventy fifth Ranger Regiment. You're leaving the 371 00:20:12.960 --> 00:20:20.119 SF world behind for a while. Yeah what uh so? Yeah, 372 00:20:20.200 --> 00:20:22.720 tell us about that culture shock a bit like landing, 373 00:20:22.960 --> 00:20:26.480 you know, in in range for battalion and you're a medic, 374 00:20:26.799 --> 00:20:29.440 so you're you know, what were the some of the 375 00:20:29.519 --> 00:20:32.160 stupid terms we used to use, like load density, moss 376 00:20:32.279 --> 00:20:35.240 or whatever. But I mean, obviously a critical part of 377 00:20:35.279 --> 00:20:39.039 the machine, but you're not infantry. You're assigned to an 378 00:20:39.039 --> 00:20:41.880 infantry platoon and doing you know, the same job up 379 00:20:41.960 --> 00:20:47.000 until someone gets hurt, right confuned. Just tell us about 380 00:20:47.000 --> 00:20:48.079 that from your perspective. 381 00:20:49.079 --> 00:20:52.279 Yeah, No, I actually had a great experience there. As 382 00:20:52.319 --> 00:20:54.799 soon as I came over to the right, back to 383 00:20:54.880 --> 00:21:00.559 third Battalion. I had great mentors right away, right away, him, 384 00:21:00.680 --> 00:21:05.880 you know, he's still in uniform, great great person, you know, 385 00:21:06.000 --> 00:21:10.440 John Deetro was later on, but there were some really 386 00:21:10.440 --> 00:21:13.680 good enlisted folks right away that just kind of scowed 387 00:21:13.680 --> 00:21:16.400 me up because infantry was like, you know, I was 388 00:21:16.440 --> 00:21:19.799 a non tab specialist without a combat scroll, so they 389 00:21:19.799 --> 00:21:21.720 didn't you know, they either know you're a medica or 390 00:21:21.720 --> 00:21:23.720 they don't, but you know, they kind of give you 391 00:21:23.720 --> 00:21:27.079 a hard time there. But the most part, infantry, depending 392 00:21:27.119 --> 00:21:28.920 on your attitude, would just scoop you right up and 393 00:21:29.200 --> 00:21:31.200 it wouldn't really be too much of a problem. So 394 00:21:31.799 --> 00:21:34.359 I didn't didn't really see too many issues there, but 395 00:21:34.480 --> 00:21:37.720 I was pretty thankful for the mentorship. And I think 396 00:21:38.039 --> 00:21:40.599 medics too, there's not really a lot of that competition. 397 00:21:41.759 --> 00:21:44.759 We really just kind of want to absorb off each other. 398 00:21:44.920 --> 00:21:47.160 So as soon as I got there, I got, you know, 399 00:21:47.559 --> 00:21:51.480 a thousand pound brain, people like John May, Caleb Twilocker, 400 00:21:51.880 --> 00:21:54.640 you know, all like really really good medics that have 401 00:21:54.720 --> 00:21:57.759 gone on into you phenomenal things, and so you know, 402 00:21:57.799 --> 00:22:00.319 you're working with people like that, and it just kind 403 00:22:00.319 --> 00:22:02.880 of helps with that, like that anxiety of being in 404 00:22:02.920 --> 00:22:06.039 a new organization and and and doing a new thing, 405 00:22:06.480 --> 00:22:09.559 because you know, like I talked about before, like now 406 00:22:09.559 --> 00:22:11.079 I knew how to get medic, but it's kind of 407 00:22:11.079 --> 00:22:13.079 like a basic medic. I didn't I hadn't deployed, an't 408 00:22:13.079 --> 00:22:15.480 done anything yet. I know it's a soccer medic And 409 00:22:15.519 --> 00:22:16.799 now I kind of had to learn how to be 410 00:22:16.799 --> 00:22:18.839 a ranger because Rip didn't really prepare me for that 411 00:22:18.880 --> 00:22:21.519 and Stockham definitely didn't prepare me for that. So now 412 00:22:21.519 --> 00:22:23.720 I kind of got to figure out, what's the ranger, 413 00:22:23.720 --> 00:22:26.119 what's this? What do we do? And so there was 414 00:22:26.160 --> 00:22:29.480 a little bit of crash fork there. And unfortunately as 415 00:22:29.519 --> 00:22:31.920 soon as I got there, they're like, you know, you're 416 00:22:31.960 --> 00:22:34.519 you're deploying to blog, So I didn't really have a 417 00:22:34.519 --> 00:22:36.039 whole lot of time to figure it out. 418 00:22:36.759 --> 00:22:39.240 But my reception was was actually pretty good. 419 00:22:39.400 --> 00:22:43.640 Yeah, so tell us about that deployment and you know, 420 00:22:43.799 --> 00:22:47.279 becoming a real deal ranger medic what the job entails. 421 00:22:48.039 --> 00:22:51.359 Yeah, So that one was actually pretty lethargic because I 422 00:22:51.480 --> 00:22:53.480 was really new. So I went to bolog to be 423 00:22:54.079 --> 00:22:57.119 like an outstation, the Italian age station medic or whatever, 424 00:22:57.160 --> 00:22:59.480 because at that time I hadn't done for Senior Valve's 425 00:23:00.039 --> 00:23:04.240 about like nothing. So I went over there. But I 426 00:23:04.279 --> 00:23:06.640 was lucky enough to be around people like Colonel Cottwall 427 00:23:06.880 --> 00:23:11.279 another great Americans, so I continue to learn. But on 428 00:23:11.319 --> 00:23:13.720 the flip side, there was the infantry, so there was 429 00:23:14.000 --> 00:23:16.799 people that you know, I just met. I was kind 430 00:23:16.799 --> 00:23:20.079 of figuring out you know, this guy's infantry Pullton sergeant, 431 00:23:20.160 --> 00:23:23.680 Like what does that mean? And I was intimidated at 432 00:23:23.680 --> 00:23:26.240 the time because you know, this guy's got like two 433 00:23:26.240 --> 00:23:28.880 combat jumps and a combat scroll and I'm like, to me, 434 00:23:28.960 --> 00:23:31.240 I'm a brand new dude, so like, I don't. To me, 435 00:23:31.400 --> 00:23:33.519 that's like the whole of Grail, Like what you know 436 00:23:34.680 --> 00:23:37.720 nowadays is whatever. But so I didn't really know, like 437 00:23:37.759 --> 00:23:39.799 how do I act around these people? Have it because 438 00:23:39.799 --> 00:23:41.720 I got to gain their trust. Everybody talks about being 439 00:23:41.759 --> 00:23:43.119 a medic. You got to get their trust. If you 440 00:23:43.119 --> 00:23:46.160 don't have their trust, you're really not the medic and 441 00:23:46.200 --> 00:23:48.680 you'll find out really quick. So there was a little 442 00:23:48.680 --> 00:23:51.000 bit of that anxiety there figuring that out. And you 443 00:23:51.039 --> 00:23:53.720 had mentioned low density before. I really kind of hung 444 00:23:54.640 --> 00:23:58.880 really close to like the fisters and the como guys, 445 00:23:58.960 --> 00:24:01.319 and because we just had a lot in common because 446 00:24:02.279 --> 00:24:05.400 and infantry comes back and cleaning weapons and you know, 447 00:24:05.640 --> 00:24:08.440 doing the commo stuff or gym whatever, we have more 448 00:24:08.480 --> 00:24:11.000 work to do. So it's just kind of like, you know, 449 00:24:11.000 --> 00:24:14.799 hanging out with people like that who are organic to 450 00:24:14.839 --> 00:24:18.839 the organization but kind of separated from everybody else. So 451 00:24:19.000 --> 00:24:21.160 I made a lot of lifelong friends that way. So 452 00:24:21.839 --> 00:24:26.039 but it was pretty good and for the most part, 453 00:24:26.160 --> 00:24:28.519 even being a specialist, I went to the board while 454 00:24:28.559 --> 00:24:30.559 I was deployed on that the point, so I think 455 00:24:30.599 --> 00:24:33.960 it were just happening, you know, one thing after another, 456 00:24:34.480 --> 00:24:37.359 and so pass the board and now I'm starting and 457 00:24:37.359 --> 00:24:40.319 they start, well I wasn't starting yet, but I was promotable, 458 00:24:40.319 --> 00:24:42.359 but they start treating you that way. So I thought 459 00:24:42.359 --> 00:24:47.000 that was pretty remarkable too. It was very professional and 460 00:24:47.319 --> 00:24:49.079 I really liked that. So I didn't go through this 461 00:24:49.119 --> 00:24:52.759 whole hazing thing. I don't know if it's my personality 462 00:24:53.119 --> 00:24:55.640 or you know, I'm not really sure because I know 463 00:24:55.759 --> 00:24:58.640 for sure some people did. But I had a pretty 464 00:24:58.640 --> 00:25:01.759 good experience while I was in ballade. 465 00:25:02.119 --> 00:25:04.319 Oh go ahead, I was just going to say that. 466 00:25:04.480 --> 00:25:06.880 I think part of that is that the medics really 467 00:25:06.880 --> 00:25:09.480 are sort of like it's like a different level of 468 00:25:09.480 --> 00:25:12.880 professionalism as opposed to breaking in a brand new rangeer 469 00:25:12.920 --> 00:25:15.400 private is like an E three, Like you guys have 470 00:25:15.519 --> 00:25:18.599 kind of demonstrated your capacity to learn a little bit more, 471 00:25:18.640 --> 00:25:22.279 and it's a bit of a more adult environment, like rightly, So. 472 00:25:23.640 --> 00:25:25.480 Yeah, I think that's that's definitely true. 473 00:25:25.559 --> 00:25:29.079 We did have a few outlier medics who somehow made 474 00:25:29.079 --> 00:25:32.000 it through the stalking force and then struggled learning how 475 00:25:32.000 --> 00:25:34.119 to be a ranger. And they know, they did really 476 00:25:34.119 --> 00:25:36.400 well in the third Infantry Division or at eighty second, 477 00:25:37.440 --> 00:25:39.440 and we kind of found ways to get them to 478 00:25:39.519 --> 00:25:41.559 move on, but they just won a good fit. But 479 00:25:41.599 --> 00:25:44.400 I think when people were a good fit, they stuck around, 480 00:25:44.400 --> 00:25:47.279 did really well. You had mentioned Tony Moore, you know, 481 00:25:47.279 --> 00:25:50.240 on our pre call here, another big mental of mine 482 00:25:50.240 --> 00:25:52.200 at the time. He probably doesn't know it, but you know, 483 00:25:52.359 --> 00:25:54.880 us younger medics, we looked up to those guys, and 484 00:25:55.160 --> 00:25:59.200 I was very fortunate to have a lot of folks 485 00:25:59.200 --> 00:26:03.279 to look up to, luckily so. And also, you know, 486 00:26:03.480 --> 00:26:05.440 my ADHD is out of control, so you guys are 487 00:26:05.480 --> 00:26:08.440 just gonna have to look at that. While I was 488 00:26:08.480 --> 00:26:12.759 in Ballade, took PT tests and you know, came back 489 00:26:12.839 --> 00:26:13.920 for Rangers school after that. 490 00:26:14.079 --> 00:26:16.400 So I got sent home really from. 491 00:26:16.240 --> 00:26:18.359 My first deployment just kind of flow anyway, because like 492 00:26:18.400 --> 00:26:20.599 I said, I was kind of dying age station, just 493 00:26:21.240 --> 00:26:24.680 kind of like a fill in medic or whatever. So 494 00:26:24.720 --> 00:26:27.079 I came back and went straight into ranger school. So 495 00:26:27.119 --> 00:26:30.240 I'd been in the Army only knowing schools at that 496 00:26:30.359 --> 00:26:35.519 time right and got thrown right into had knew nothing 497 00:26:35.559 --> 00:26:38.359 about Ranger school, and nobody pulled me aside and they're like, hey, 498 00:26:38.359 --> 00:26:40.759 this is what to expect on it for like nothing, 499 00:26:40.799 --> 00:26:42.960 you go back PT tests, you're going back to for 500 00:26:43.000 --> 00:26:46.240 your anger When you was at that time in my life, 501 00:26:46.279 --> 00:26:48.920 it was just one thing after another when. 502 00:26:48.799 --> 00:26:51.880 You were working at the age station. I'm curious because 503 00:26:51.920 --> 00:26:57.000 you mentioned the e MT basic, the MTB training, which 504 00:26:57.039 --> 00:26:59.559 is basically just training people to stay light, scoop and 505 00:26:59.559 --> 00:27:05.359 sweep right and uh and combat medics can and medics 506 00:27:05.400 --> 00:27:08.599 of all you know in all branches and especially more 507 00:27:08.640 --> 00:27:11.119 isolate stations will do a lot more than even an 508 00:27:11.119 --> 00:27:13.400 EMTP will be allowed to do. 509 00:27:13.799 --> 00:27:15.160 Oh sure, So it's this. 510 00:27:15.119 --> 00:27:19.839 Thing of being overtrained and underqualified. Were you surprised by 511 00:27:19.839 --> 00:27:22.200 some of the stuff that like you were training in 512 00:27:22.559 --> 00:27:23.920 and some of the stuff that you were doing. 513 00:27:23.960 --> 00:27:25.720 We got to give a quick shout out to one 514 00:27:25.720 --> 00:27:27.720 of our sponsors. 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One last time, p i a 562 00:30:10.240 --> 00:30:19.279 vpn dot com slash Teamhouse guys, you need this real quick. 563 00:30:19.319 --> 00:30:22.799 But like I like when I was a named Cormant, surprise, 564 00:30:22.880 --> 00:30:25.279 like getting a shipboard and doing shoot yours and like 565 00:30:26.039 --> 00:30:28.279 you know, taking out people's toenails, and in combat it's 566 00:30:28.279 --> 00:30:31.119 even more so, you know when you're seeing gunshot wounds 567 00:30:31.119 --> 00:30:34.039 and things like that. So like, were you surprised by 568 00:30:34.079 --> 00:30:35.799 some of the stuff one that you learned at soccerm 569 00:30:35.839 --> 00:30:38.200 and then to what they actually had you doing out 570 00:30:38.240 --> 00:30:40.000 in the field or teaching you how to do. 571 00:30:41.160 --> 00:30:44.400 Yeah, I think that's soking for They did a phenomenal 572 00:30:44.519 --> 00:30:51.200 job preparing us for that through the years of life 573 00:30:51.240 --> 00:30:55.440 tissue training, simulations and stuff like that. And also we 574 00:30:55.480 --> 00:31:00.799 did rotations at major tronasatilities. So I went down Jacksonville, 575 00:31:00.839 --> 00:31:04.839 Florida and did everything you can imagine deliver babies. Did 576 00:31:05.440 --> 00:31:09.480 you know trauma on the roadside? Did trauma uh in 577 00:31:09.559 --> 00:31:12.400 the O R so in the er? So you know, 578 00:31:12.519 --> 00:31:15.920 seeing a real human being with these injuries really kind 579 00:31:15.960 --> 00:31:19.839 of helps subdue your emotions for that. And then as 580 00:31:19.880 --> 00:31:23.799 you transition into an organization where you're expected due to 581 00:31:23.799 --> 00:31:26.759 this full time, that's kind of like that's what I 582 00:31:26.799 --> 00:31:29.880 was expecting to see, when really that's kind of like 583 00:31:29.920 --> 00:31:31.640 the one percent of what I did see. So a 584 00:31:31.640 --> 00:31:33.680 lot of what I saw was, you know, my feet 585 00:31:33.720 --> 00:31:37.160 are messed up, my back, do you have any you 586 00:31:37.200 --> 00:31:39.839 know toward all you know, So it's kind of like 587 00:31:40.440 --> 00:31:44.319 a little bit different in learning that dynamic of ametic 588 00:31:44.519 --> 00:31:48.319 is way more than just trauma. But when we do 589 00:31:48.359 --> 00:31:51.319 trauma yet to be phenomenal at it. Uh, that other 590 00:31:51.400 --> 00:31:52.759 stuff really. 591 00:31:53.400 --> 00:31:55.519 Became my hyper focus, I believe. 592 00:31:55.720 --> 00:32:01.240 Yeah, yeah, I think the beauty of even combat medics 593 00:32:01.240 --> 00:32:05.000 depending on where they're assigned and uh range of medics. 594 00:32:05.000 --> 00:32:08.039 For sure, if you're trained to do something, you can 595 00:32:08.079 --> 00:32:11.799 do it underneath you know, a PA or physician. You know. 596 00:32:11.799 --> 00:32:14.319 We had Ray Stirling, John. 597 00:32:14.160 --> 00:32:18.599 Dietro from a while, we had some Ethan Miles, all 598 00:32:18.680 --> 00:32:22.839 people that are you know, very well known in the community. Uh, 599 00:32:22.920 --> 00:32:25.880 and they would teach us and feel comfortable with us 600 00:32:25.960 --> 00:32:29.440 doing it. So that yeah, it was a little overwhelming 601 00:32:29.480 --> 00:32:33.839 at first, but you know, as you get more comfortable 602 00:32:33.880 --> 00:32:36.680 and you do it through repetition, it becomes a little 603 00:32:36.680 --> 00:32:37.240 bit no no, no. 604 00:32:38.559 --> 00:32:42.240 So you go to ranger school because you're a combat medic, 605 00:32:42.240 --> 00:32:46.079 you're going to learn this ship too. Sure after after 606 00:32:46.119 --> 00:32:48.640 getting out of there, do you go to a platoon 607 00:32:48.680 --> 00:32:50.680 At that point yeah. 608 00:32:50.720 --> 00:32:56.039 So the day I graduated and came back up to 609 00:32:56.519 --> 00:33:00.319 the battalion, I was approached by the Recue. He was 610 00:33:00.359 --> 00:33:03.359 a squad leader at the time. Eventually the been target 611 00:33:04.319 --> 00:33:07.440 and I was directed to try out for the Reky platoons. 612 00:33:07.519 --> 00:33:13.119 So I went straight from Rangers Deployment, Rangers school pretty 613 00:33:13.200 --> 00:33:15.359 much straight into the Recuy platoon. So, and I think 614 00:33:15.400 --> 00:33:18.079 that was around the time it was it was first 615 00:33:18.119 --> 00:33:21.440 being developed. So yeah, Ray Schnyder was in there for 616 00:33:21.440 --> 00:33:24.559 a little bit. So I went in there and kind 617 00:33:24.559 --> 00:33:27.839 of just started for nothing. So that was my first button. 618 00:33:28.359 --> 00:33:31.039 Recky platoons were you mentioned it's just get started. Wrecky 619 00:33:31.079 --> 00:33:33.559 platweens work were a pretty new thing around that. 620 00:33:33.480 --> 00:33:38.559 Time, right, Yeah, they were. And I think in our case, 621 00:33:38.799 --> 00:33:42.640 you know, of course I'm biased, but sometimes that you know, 622 00:33:42.680 --> 00:33:45.200 I think some of the Wrekkie and maybe the other 623 00:33:45.240 --> 00:33:49.480 battalions it was a place where they may have put underperformers, 624 00:33:49.519 --> 00:33:53.279 But for ours, between our Wrekky and Sniper, I think 625 00:33:53.319 --> 00:33:55.640 that was one of our top And I'm not saying 626 00:33:55.640 --> 00:33:57.680 that I was not the best medic, I can tell 627 00:33:57.680 --> 00:34:00.160 you nowhere near the bethemetic. But I could run and 628 00:34:00.240 --> 00:34:02.880 I could rock but some of the folks that we 629 00:34:02.960 --> 00:34:05.759 had in Reki have gone on to do some phenomenal 630 00:34:05.839 --> 00:34:07.599 things even today. 631 00:34:07.960 --> 00:34:10.519 I was there. I was there when they stood up 632 00:34:10.559 --> 00:34:14.480 the Reki section and I was in sniper section, and uh, 633 00:34:15.280 --> 00:34:17.960 same story, man, I was nothing special. I was not 634 00:34:18.079 --> 00:34:20.840 the best sniper by any stretch of the imagination, but 635 00:34:21.280 --> 00:34:26.639 around incredibly talented people. And actually I was talking to somebody, 636 00:34:27.119 --> 00:34:31.840 uh in the rekie section today who reached out to me. 637 00:34:32.039 --> 00:34:33.000 Do you remember Royce? 638 00:34:34.199 --> 00:34:36.199 Yeah, yeah, yeah, he's. 639 00:34:36.039 --> 00:34:39.599 Still a good man, funny funny catching up with him. 640 00:34:39.800 --> 00:34:42.360 A lot of good guys in in Reki, man, a 641 00:34:42.360 --> 00:34:45.039 lot of really good cats that, as you point out, 642 00:34:45.039 --> 00:34:48.079 went out and they're still doing amazing things. 643 00:34:48.400 --> 00:34:53.280 Yeah, no, and you know they still are doing amazing things. 644 00:34:53.320 --> 00:34:56.639 So it was another eye opener too. So, you know, 645 00:34:56.679 --> 00:34:59.280 I'd done this medicine thing and I thought it was great, 646 00:34:59.280 --> 00:35:00.719 and I was just kind of figuring out how to 647 00:35:00.760 --> 00:35:01.119 do that. 648 00:35:01.280 --> 00:35:03.960 And then now they're like, you know, how, this is 649 00:35:03.960 --> 00:35:05.599 how you do it in this environment. 650 00:35:05.719 --> 00:35:10.000 And also here's camera equipment, here is this, and there's 651 00:35:10.079 --> 00:35:13.800 technical stuff and so it's just a new trade and 652 00:35:14.840 --> 00:35:17.559 I enjoyed with it. It worked with my nerd side 653 00:35:17.639 --> 00:35:20.440 quite a bit. I struggled a little bit with i 654 00:35:20.440 --> 00:35:23.320 think forming relationships with some of the folks on the teams, 655 00:35:23.360 --> 00:35:28.079 because I think they had all come from prestigious teams 656 00:35:28.119 --> 00:35:30.199 and squads throughout the battalion, and I'm like this new 657 00:35:30.199 --> 00:35:33.679 guy that was nothing about anything. So I kind of 658 00:35:33.719 --> 00:35:36.320 struggled to see where I would kind of fit within 659 00:35:37.280 --> 00:35:39.920 the Rekie teams. But eventually it all work out pretty good. 660 00:35:40.280 --> 00:35:43.800 And then when you were there, because they are so small, 661 00:35:44.280 --> 00:35:48.920 were you basically a wreck a troop and then had 662 00:35:48.960 --> 00:35:51.519 the initial duties of being the medic. 663 00:35:51.519 --> 00:35:54.760 Or was yeah, yeah, it wasn't so fortunate to just 664 00:35:54.840 --> 00:35:55.360 be a medic. 665 00:35:55.480 --> 00:35:57.679 So we had to do just pretty much. 666 00:35:57.519 --> 00:36:00.000 Everything everybody else did. You did, you know, the calm 667 00:36:00.039 --> 00:36:03.480 and stuff, the jungle two nine or two, setting up antennas, 668 00:36:04.360 --> 00:36:07.360 sending stuff over h p W, which is all like 669 00:36:07.559 --> 00:36:11.440 ARKA stuff, right because you use the A tax system 670 00:36:11.480 --> 00:36:13.880 and do uh everything of what we were trying to 671 00:36:13.920 --> 00:36:16.400 do back then. But but it was it was very good. 672 00:36:16.440 --> 00:36:19.239 I think what I really liked too, is they invested 673 00:36:19.239 --> 00:36:21.920 a lot with you know, the platoons started at the 674 00:36:21.920 --> 00:36:24.920 team stargeants that were there at the time, They invested 675 00:36:24.960 --> 00:36:25.920 a lot in our training. 676 00:36:25.960 --> 00:36:27.920 They got us pulled away from. 677 00:36:27.559 --> 00:36:30.719 Doing you know, a lot of the battalion common tasks 678 00:36:30.760 --> 00:36:33.079 that we would have to do, and they really made 679 00:36:33.440 --> 00:36:37.360 our training paramount And we did t SC training with 680 00:36:37.440 --> 00:36:40.239 the cameras, we did the you know, the tracking course, 681 00:36:40.440 --> 00:36:43.480 like we we went all in vehicle in addiction stuff 682 00:36:44.159 --> 00:36:45.639 and if there was a chance we would do it 683 00:36:45.639 --> 00:36:48.360 on our deployment, we were doing it here. And once 684 00:36:48.360 --> 00:36:50.519 again I was fortunate enough to have n c O 685 00:36:50.639 --> 00:36:53.280 s that we paid out there until we you know, 686 00:36:53.360 --> 00:36:55.559 couldn't mess it up and and so I was very 687 00:36:55.559 --> 00:36:56.320 thankful for that. 688 00:36:56.480 --> 00:36:58.960 So it was it was a pretty it was a 689 00:36:59.000 --> 00:36:59.880 really good experience. 690 00:37:00.320 --> 00:37:02.159 So what was the next apployment? 691 00:37:04.360 --> 00:37:10.079 Uh, all right, so Afghanistan? So I deployed Afghanistan with Reki. 692 00:37:11.159 --> 00:37:14.320 We were split between Salerno and Bob Shapman. 693 00:37:15.480 --> 00:37:19.760 We did that. Yeah, yeah, so that was the next apployment. 694 00:37:19.800 --> 00:37:22.280 It was kind of you know, you know, as w 695 00:37:22.280 --> 00:37:24.920 Reki back then, I think we were kind of trying 696 00:37:24.920 --> 00:37:30.639 to find where we fit. We did TTRS, which I 697 00:37:30.639 --> 00:37:32.559 thought was was pretty cool. So we would go out 698 00:37:32.559 --> 00:37:35.400 there and looking back now, I can't believe how crazy 699 00:37:35.440 --> 00:37:37.679 that it downs, but you know, we would get into 700 00:37:37.719 --> 00:37:40.079 the car, not even up arms. It's got tin of windows. 701 00:37:40.079 --> 00:37:42.440 And you know, I had a beard. I was darkish anyway, 702 00:37:42.480 --> 00:37:45.000 and I tell you, with the full beard, I fit 703 00:37:45.079 --> 00:37:46.840 the part. But then we had some folks that did not. 704 00:37:47.079 --> 00:37:50.280 But we're out there doing, you know, a wrecky in 705 00:37:50.320 --> 00:37:52.159 a car in the middle of traffic, and I'm sure 706 00:37:52.320 --> 00:37:55.159 maybe they knew we were. I don't know, but looking back, 707 00:37:55.559 --> 00:37:58.079 you know, we made it work. So we have some great, 708 00:37:58.360 --> 00:38:00.480 great folks that just pulled together. 709 00:38:00.880 --> 00:38:03.320 Do you remember, Mike, there was one kid. He was 710 00:38:03.360 --> 00:38:06.000 so young he couldn't grow a beard, so he bought 711 00:38:06.079 --> 00:38:09.920 like a Hollywood beard that glued into place. 712 00:38:11.000 --> 00:38:11.559 Yeah. 713 00:38:12.559 --> 00:38:15.480 And when you say CTRS, when you say CTRS, you're 714 00:38:15.480 --> 00:38:18.800 talking about close target reconnaissance, right, so just to give the. 715 00:38:18.639 --> 00:38:21.679 Leaders, oh yeah, sorry, I forget about that. So we'd 716 00:38:21.719 --> 00:38:25.119 either do aerial rekis or we do a CTR or 717 00:38:25.159 --> 00:38:28.880 the vehicles and stuff. And it was also good too, 718 00:38:28.960 --> 00:38:34.880 because we were pretty much unsupervised from the battalion. You know, 719 00:38:34.920 --> 00:38:38.079 we had our heath sergeants or whatever, and you kind of, 720 00:38:38.800 --> 00:38:40.440 you know, dealt with that. And I thought that was 721 00:38:40.480 --> 00:38:42.920 good too, because that provided us with a little lot 722 00:38:42.920 --> 00:38:45.760 of that top cover, we could really focus on what 723 00:38:45.760 --> 00:38:46.280 we had to do. 724 00:38:46.360 --> 00:38:49.480 But like I said, the missions were somewhat slow. 725 00:38:49.280 --> 00:38:53.079 And it is what it is for the time and 726 00:38:53.119 --> 00:38:55.800 where we're at, so but it's still a good experience. 727 00:38:56.079 --> 00:38:59.760 I remember you guys working the isolation piece too for 728 00:38:59.840 --> 00:39:02.360 the direct action missions. 729 00:39:02.559 --> 00:39:05.119 Yep, yep. We would go and do you know near 730 00:39:05.199 --> 00:39:08.800 Syde Park started security, almost basic ranger school type stuff. 731 00:39:10.239 --> 00:39:13.440 A lot of our guys were trained with Preacher. I 732 00:39:13.480 --> 00:39:16.920 did breaching stuff as well, you know, and then eventually 733 00:39:16.960 --> 00:39:18.920 we had Chane Eynes, so we'd go in there and 734 00:39:18.960 --> 00:39:22.079 do you know sniper. We'd even sometimes go up there 735 00:39:22.119 --> 00:39:24.079 with you guys, especially me as a medics sometimes I'd 736 00:39:24.079 --> 00:39:26.559 find myself hang out with you guys anyway. But so 737 00:39:26.559 --> 00:39:29.239 we did a lot of that, just locking the printer 738 00:39:29.440 --> 00:39:32.440 down and doing black side securities stuff like that. 739 00:39:33.719 --> 00:39:37.199 So now you're really warning how to be a Ranger 740 00:39:37.320 --> 00:39:40.320 in combat. Also, all of these new skills that are 741 00:39:40.320 --> 00:39:42.840 coming into Ranger Battalion for the first time. I mean, 742 00:39:43.199 --> 00:39:46.400 cruising around in low visibility vehicles with beards is not 743 00:39:46.519 --> 00:39:49.360 something that rangers did up until this point, right, it 744 00:39:49.400 --> 00:39:50.639 was antithetical. 745 00:39:51.679 --> 00:39:53.320 I think a year and a half before that, I 746 00:39:53.320 --> 00:39:55.519 had a high end tight and Stein boots, so that 747 00:39:55.679 --> 00:40:00.239 was it was very different. But I think that could 748 00:40:00.280 --> 00:40:03.320 probably be attributed to I think Star Major Birds at 749 00:40:03.320 --> 00:40:06.320 the time. I think he really instituted a lot of 750 00:40:06.360 --> 00:40:09.760 things within the regiment. And like I said before, we 751 00:40:09.800 --> 00:40:12.159 had a lot of folks. We even by the time 752 00:40:12.159 --> 00:40:15.079 I got there, had a couple of deployments and years 753 00:40:15.119 --> 00:40:19.079 in battalions, So it it was it worked out really well. 754 00:40:19.280 --> 00:40:22.239 How did how did the line not necessarily the guys 755 00:40:22.320 --> 00:40:25.840 on the line, but for instance, also the senior enlisted 756 00:40:25.920 --> 00:40:28.920 I think you know who had been there since the 757 00:40:28.960 --> 00:40:31.960 late nineties and then all of a sudden, like you 758 00:40:32.039 --> 00:40:35.199 long hairs are out there running a lot like being 759 00:40:35.280 --> 00:40:38.519 hooligans and brigands. Like did you guys get pushed back 760 00:40:38.559 --> 00:40:44.440 from like particularly like the senior enlisted on the lines. 761 00:40:43.599 --> 00:40:46.480 For sure, Yeah, especially when you're a state side. So 762 00:40:46.599 --> 00:40:49.440 we did the It was like ninety days before we 763 00:40:49.440 --> 00:40:52.599 would deploy, we'd have cirt throwing our beards and stuff, 764 00:40:52.920 --> 00:40:55.960 and it would be so much like and looking back, 765 00:40:55.960 --> 00:40:57.480 it's like, dude, like I didn't make it up, Like 766 00:40:57.519 --> 00:40:59.519 I'm not I'm just doing told you, I don't know 767 00:40:59.519 --> 00:41:02.440 why you're going me, but it was I. 768 00:41:03.119 --> 00:41:06.039 Remember getting kicked out of the the on post gym 769 00:41:06.079 --> 00:41:10.000 on Fort Benning. Yeah, like you like that, get the 770 00:41:10.000 --> 00:41:10.519 fuck out. 771 00:41:11.360 --> 00:41:13.199 Yeah. We'd come back from a range and we'd be 772 00:41:13.239 --> 00:41:16.519 in the you know, the uniform beds with the bell 773 00:41:16.599 --> 00:41:19.320 throw up here or whatever, and no name tags or nothing. 774 00:41:19.320 --> 00:41:21.000 You have a beard, and you know some of the 775 00:41:21.000 --> 00:41:22.599 conventional folks would your commander. 776 00:41:22.679 --> 00:41:25.079 No, you didn't shave, and I got like three months 777 00:41:25.119 --> 00:41:28.119 of beer, right right, yes, you know I. 778 00:41:28.000 --> 00:41:31.320 Got Yeah, it's my four o'clock shadow. 779 00:41:32.280 --> 00:41:36.039 Yeah, we had a little bit of that, but not 780 00:41:36.400 --> 00:41:39.000 too much. Definitely battalion there. 781 00:41:39.400 --> 00:41:43.119 Yeah, I imagine because there were still like that's early 782 00:41:43.199 --> 00:41:46.400 enough that there were still rangers there, especially like senior 783 00:41:46.400 --> 00:41:51.960 guys who felt that, uh like patrol based activities was 784 00:41:51.960 --> 00:41:54.679 the ranger mission and that they were the best light 785 00:41:54.760 --> 00:41:57.119 inventory in the world and all the c QB and 786 00:41:57.159 --> 00:41:58.719 all this other stuff was bullshit. 787 00:42:00.119 --> 00:42:02.239 Yeah, And I think as a medic, you know, we're 788 00:42:02.320 --> 00:42:06.159 we're very thought provoking for the most part. So you know, 789 00:42:06.159 --> 00:42:07.639 if you're going to give me, if you're going to 790 00:42:07.679 --> 00:42:09.119 tell me what I need to do, or you're gonna 791 00:42:09.119 --> 00:42:09.360 tell me. 792 00:42:09.360 --> 00:42:10.119 This is a standard. 793 00:42:10.159 --> 00:42:13.239 I immediately exumin it and try to like exploit it 794 00:42:13.280 --> 00:42:15.639 and figure out why that's the standard what I'm doing. 795 00:42:15.719 --> 00:42:18.960 And there was some instances where we had a start 796 00:42:19.000 --> 00:42:21.360 Major I think he was the first hard and then 797 00:42:21.400 --> 00:42:25.639 became the star Major Glass name rhymes with Pelek, And 798 00:42:25.960 --> 00:42:29.079 so I'd be in like the field uniform with the 799 00:42:29.159 --> 00:42:33.519 field authorized field boots and my locker is in the 800 00:42:33.559 --> 00:42:36.679 headquarters h A C three seventy five. 801 00:42:36.960 --> 00:42:38.760 So I got, like, you know, my boots on because 802 00:42:38.760 --> 00:42:39.199 we were. 803 00:42:39.039 --> 00:42:41.320 Doing tracking school and they told us, you know where 804 00:42:41.360 --> 00:42:44.000 non standard boots or whatever, and he's like, now You've 805 00:42:44.000 --> 00:42:45.519 got to change the boots. And I'm like, put my 806 00:42:45.920 --> 00:42:49.079 Like my car is right there. I'm just wearing these 807 00:42:49.079 --> 00:42:51.360 boots to my car and I'm in the field. Had 808 00:42:51.400 --> 00:42:53.920 to change into Bellville's. So I get the Bellville's on, 809 00:42:54.079 --> 00:42:56.719 I put my non standard boots in the car, drive 810 00:42:56.760 --> 00:42:58.360 out to the site, and put my other boots on. 811 00:42:58.440 --> 00:43:00.440 So there's a lot of things like that that it's like, 812 00:43:01.559 --> 00:43:04.400 why is this the thing? I don't really know? And 813 00:43:04.440 --> 00:43:08.320 I feel like people kind of brought more hate to 814 00:43:08.400 --> 00:43:10.719 the Record cartoon because of that kind of stuff, and 815 00:43:10.800 --> 00:43:12.920 I don't think most of us cared. Honestly, I don't 816 00:43:13.440 --> 00:43:15.800 really care to have a beer going deploy gets caught 817 00:43:15.880 --> 00:43:18.599 my chin strap and yeah, I was playing with it, 818 00:43:18.679 --> 00:43:20.519 so I don't really care for it too much, but 819 00:43:21.159 --> 00:43:21.400 it is. 820 00:43:21.519 --> 00:43:24.519 Yeah, yeah, Nick was our first sergeant at the time. 821 00:43:25.599 --> 00:43:28.000 Yes he was, And that was some of it. You know, 822 00:43:28.039 --> 00:43:30.199 it's the time and place for that. And yeah, I 823 00:43:30.239 --> 00:43:32.559 guess that was wrong. I shouldn't have put my field 824 00:43:32.559 --> 00:43:35.880 boots on twenty feet in my car. So I lived 825 00:43:35.880 --> 00:43:37.239 the rest of my career that way. 826 00:43:37.360 --> 00:43:40.119 And then how did you guys not end up hitting it? 827 00:43:40.360 --> 00:43:44.559 Because because this is after my time, so I had heard, 828 00:43:45.440 --> 00:43:47.960 and you guys can correct this. That snipers a little 829 00:43:48.000 --> 00:43:52.239 salty because Recky got stood up and then basically took 830 00:43:52.239 --> 00:43:55.519 the sniper's only mission in addition to all their others 831 00:43:55.800 --> 00:43:59.639 and their gear and whatnot, like that didn't happen. 832 00:43:59.480 --> 00:44:01.800 No, I think now, I think we had a really 833 00:44:01.880 --> 00:44:05.480 good dynamic, and and me as a medic, obviously snipers 834 00:44:05.480 --> 00:44:07.119 don't have a medics, so I would cover down on 835 00:44:07.159 --> 00:44:09.880 their training, and even while we were deployed, I'd hang 836 00:44:09.920 --> 00:44:10.400 out with them. 837 00:44:10.440 --> 00:44:11.960 So I don't think we really had it. 838 00:44:11.960 --> 00:44:13.960 I don't think you could have told the difference, to 839 00:44:14.039 --> 00:44:15.960 be honest, to grough out there in training event, other 840 00:44:16.039 --> 00:44:18.679 than you know, Jack being out there with a long gun, 841 00:44:18.760 --> 00:44:19.599 and maybe I didn't. 842 00:44:19.840 --> 00:44:21.000 You couldn't really tell the difference. 843 00:44:21.280 --> 00:44:25.280 And over time I believe it got like more formalized 844 00:44:25.519 --> 00:44:28.119 into like a single company or like they were much 845 00:44:28.159 --> 00:44:32.440 closer together snipers and RECKI yep, it did. 846 00:44:32.719 --> 00:44:35.920 It became. I think it was after my time, but 847 00:44:36.000 --> 00:44:39.519 it became like that special people team or specialify company 848 00:44:39.599 --> 00:44:41.760 or whatever. I don't I'm not sure where they're at now, 849 00:44:41.840 --> 00:44:44.679 but yeah, no, I think that probably helped a little too. 850 00:44:45.440 --> 00:44:47.920 Thinking back on it, I don't remember any any like 851 00:44:48.039 --> 00:44:50.639 bad blood about it, because the the reason why it 852 00:44:50.679 --> 00:44:53.400 happened was because r RD was getting sucked up into 853 00:44:53.440 --> 00:44:56.800 all the missions and that left the battalions without a 854 00:44:56.840 --> 00:45:00.800 reconnaissance element, and so the battalion WRECKI eyes that Mike's 855 00:45:00.800 --> 00:45:03.320 talking about were stood up to kind of like act 856 00:45:03.360 --> 00:45:06.800 as this is not a technical term, but like scouts 857 00:45:07.039 --> 00:45:09.880 for the battalion like to go out, you know, ten 858 00:45:09.960 --> 00:45:13.920 kilometers ahead of them, recont targets and then come back 859 00:45:13.920 --> 00:45:16.239 and report intel. Is like the most basic way I 860 00:45:16.239 --> 00:45:17.119 could describe it, I. 861 00:45:17.039 --> 00:45:21.840 Guess, yeah, that's exactly right. Yeah, and we did it 862 00:45:21.920 --> 00:45:24.559 a few times. I stayed a few times, but you know, 863 00:45:24.800 --> 00:45:28.039 we did it a lot. But I think at the 864 00:45:28.079 --> 00:45:31.760 time it made sense. And you know, as we moved 865 00:45:31.800 --> 00:45:34.159 on through g a lot, I think it they had 866 00:45:34.159 --> 00:45:36.599 to change kind of their focus a little bit, get 867 00:45:36.599 --> 00:45:39.199 a little more technical, TFT and you know, and all 868 00:45:39.239 --> 00:45:42.039 that stuff. But I think it definitely had a place. 869 00:45:43.159 --> 00:45:46.400 But it was. To be honest, it's pretty fun. 870 00:45:46.480 --> 00:45:49.559 So you get back from that deployment back to battalion 871 00:45:49.599 --> 00:45:50.639 and what's the next thing. 872 00:45:52.960 --> 00:45:56.079 I think that's when I hit PLDC Warriorly. Of course, 873 00:45:56.119 --> 00:45:58.639 one of those that came back to some just knocked 874 00:45:58.639 --> 00:46:02.199 out school after school and it just continued and then 875 00:46:02.320 --> 00:46:05.599 deployment again. So our op tempo was pretty aggressive back then. 876 00:46:07.000 --> 00:46:09.760 I'm sure you remember. But yeah, I think I knocked 877 00:46:09.760 --> 00:46:11.480 out a couple of the regular Army schools because that 878 00:46:11.519 --> 00:46:13.760 was already behind at this point. I was. I was 879 00:46:14.559 --> 00:46:17.960 field boarded while I was deployed, and I actually pinned 880 00:46:18.000 --> 00:46:20.599 sergeant while I was in ranger school, and then when 881 00:46:20.599 --> 00:46:23.039 I graduated and went straight to you know, Wrecky did 882 00:46:23.079 --> 00:46:25.880 all that stuff and so I think after that depointments, 883 00:46:25.880 --> 00:46:30.000 when I started doing the Warrior Laderpulist whatever they called it. 884 00:46:30.360 --> 00:46:33.360 Interesting Mike, just before we move on, there's one thing 885 00:46:33.360 --> 00:46:36.119 that just came into my head. I remember, and I 886 00:46:36.119 --> 00:46:37.639 can't remember if it was one of you guys or 887 00:46:37.679 --> 00:46:39.679 if it was a Charlie Company medic. Do you remember 888 00:46:39.679 --> 00:46:42.119 the guy getting flex cuff to the chain link fence 889 00:46:42.159 --> 00:46:43.559 and sealerno on his birthday? 890 00:46:45.199 --> 00:46:48.039 I don't, but that's okay. 891 00:46:47.199 --> 00:46:49.880 It might it might have been if it wasn't you, 892 00:46:49.960 --> 00:46:53.880 I think I know who was. Yeah, but that that 893 00:46:54.280 --> 00:46:55.679 remember a prank. 894 00:46:55.440 --> 00:46:57.280 By Remember what the company would have been there. 895 00:46:57.360 --> 00:47:02.079 It would have been Charlie Company, Okay, Leo Jenkins, I think, 896 00:47:03.000 --> 00:47:05.559 oh it, I think I think I'll have to I'll 897 00:47:05.559 --> 00:47:07.519 have to check with him and see if it was him. 898 00:47:07.519 --> 00:47:09.960 But I remember one of those guys getting flex cuff 899 00:47:10.039 --> 00:47:11.960 to the fence on his birthday and covered in shaving 900 00:47:12.000 --> 00:47:12.719 cream and everything. 901 00:47:12.920 --> 00:47:14.559 I mean, Leo. Leo is a big dude, so I'm 902 00:47:14.559 --> 00:47:20.960 not right he's a scrapper. But yeah, that's pretty funny. 903 00:47:21.480 --> 00:47:24.880 Okay. So you're getting schooled up and then on the 904 00:47:24.920 --> 00:47:26.760 next deployment again with Reki section. 905 00:47:28.440 --> 00:47:33.079 Yeah, yep, so went out another deployment caff Gain is 906 00:47:33.159 --> 00:47:35.480 tam Reki, but this one was unfortunately cut a little 907 00:47:35.480 --> 00:47:39.400 bit short. So I don't remember how long I was there, 908 00:47:40.719 --> 00:47:43.159 maybe like a month or so. And we had a 909 00:47:43.159 --> 00:47:48.159 mission come down with Alpha Company, one of the platoons 910 00:47:48.199 --> 00:47:50.119 or two platoons, I think, and we're going to fast 911 00:47:50.199 --> 00:47:55.480 rope north of I believe it was Salerno. We're going 912 00:47:55.559 --> 00:47:59.400 to fast rope ninety foot bat like, just like, come on, 913 00:47:59.519 --> 00:48:02.119 utter miss, you're going to fast rope with three days 914 00:48:02.119 --> 00:48:04.199 worth of stuff in a rock sat plus you know, 915 00:48:04.280 --> 00:48:08.199 medical gear, MRIs, all that stuff, camera stuff. Ninety ninety 916 00:48:08.239 --> 00:48:11.239 foot was I think the plane was ninety foot so 917 00:48:11.280 --> 00:48:14.920 they forty seven comes in rope master, good to go. 918 00:48:16.000 --> 00:48:18.639 Globboard didn't say anything. And for those of you that 919 00:48:18.719 --> 00:48:22.800 don't know, glowboard is like a clipboard that has like 920 00:48:22.960 --> 00:48:26.440 acetate night or glowing the dark tape on it, so 921 00:48:26.480 --> 00:48:28.559 when you write with a black marker, you can you 922 00:48:28.559 --> 00:48:30.960 can read, you know what it says. It's passing around 923 00:48:31.000 --> 00:48:33.840 the helicopter. Because the movies aren't accurate. When you can 924 00:48:33.920 --> 00:48:34.360 talk like. 925 00:48:34.280 --> 00:48:37.320 We're can't do it. You can't do an board a helicopter. 926 00:48:37.440 --> 00:48:40.119 Yeah no, that's not real. So there was nothing really, 927 00:48:41.719 --> 00:48:43.639 you know, no surprises. They were like, all right, ninety 928 00:48:43.639 --> 00:48:46.440 foot rope onto this hilltop, no big deal. Well it 929 00:48:46.519 --> 00:48:50.400 was a big deal. So the forty seven pilot apparently 930 00:48:50.519 --> 00:48:54.440 found a spot on a house, so instead of hitting 931 00:48:54.440 --> 00:48:57.880 at the hilltop, he put us down maybe thirty feet 932 00:48:57.960 --> 00:48:59.280 onto a rooftop, but. 933 00:48:59.239 --> 00:49:00.400 Didn't tell any buddy. 934 00:49:00.440 --> 00:49:05.119 So long story short, the Mark Foster, the Air Force 935 00:49:05.559 --> 00:49:08.840 fellow that was on our Recorde team, he hits the house, 936 00:49:09.039 --> 00:49:11.440 walks right off it because it's what you're supposed to 937 00:49:11.440 --> 00:49:12.639 do in the past. Rope. We didn't know we're in 938 00:49:12.679 --> 00:49:14.880 the building, so we walked right off, breaks his back. 939 00:49:16.000 --> 00:49:18.719 I come down and the rope at this time is 940 00:49:18.719 --> 00:49:22.239 not even over the building. So I fall about two 941 00:49:22.280 --> 00:49:25.400 stories into a woodpile. I broke my right arm, like 942 00:49:25.440 --> 00:49:29.239 my distal radius. A couple other people fall, get kind 943 00:49:29.239 --> 00:49:31.639 of bumped up. Nothing really too bad. So now this 944 00:49:32.199 --> 00:49:37.360 three day we're supposed to just do security from from 945 00:49:37.400 --> 00:49:41.119 the elevation for the platoons to do their thing, now 946 00:49:41.159 --> 00:49:44.039 turned into we need to get Mark Foster off this 947 00:49:44.039 --> 00:49:48.239 this hill top. So not only had I not trained 948 00:49:48.280 --> 00:49:51.719 with the one sixtieth a whole lot. Usually when we're 949 00:49:51.760 --> 00:49:53.760 getting country, we link up with the metics, We do 950 00:49:53.760 --> 00:49:58.199 a high five, We chow together and talk about how 951 00:49:58.199 --> 00:50:00.360 awesome the one sixtieth is and how bad to get 952 00:50:00.360 --> 00:50:03.079 smoked in regiment, and we would kind of do that 953 00:50:03.199 --> 00:50:05.280 and kind of get our bearings straight because they would 954 00:50:05.280 --> 00:50:08.320 help us out with that. But I hadn't really trained 955 00:50:08.360 --> 00:50:11.840 a whole lot physically with them. So here we are 956 00:50:12.880 --> 00:50:16.679 under zero loom eleven. I don't know ten thousand feet 957 00:50:16.679 --> 00:50:19.079 I don't, honestly don't remember. Way up there, freezing cold, 958 00:50:19.280 --> 00:50:22.119 and now they're hoisting a basket down, so you know 959 00:50:22.159 --> 00:50:24.880 they're in a hover bringing the basket down. Get Mark 960 00:50:24.920 --> 00:50:26.880 Foster in there because he broke his back. I already 961 00:50:26.920 --> 00:50:29.480 got a line started, got some value pushed. You know, 962 00:50:29.679 --> 00:50:32.880 he's feeling pretty good, a little bit of morphine, you 963 00:50:32.880 --> 00:50:35.679 know what I mean. Take care of my guys. And 964 00:50:35.760 --> 00:50:37.840 so now he's being hoisted out in the first time 965 00:50:37.840 --> 00:50:40.920 I'd ever done it. So it was probably not ideal 966 00:50:41.679 --> 00:50:44.719 to figure that out on the side of the mountain top, but. 967 00:50:44.719 --> 00:50:46.639 It worked out, and I didn't at the time. 968 00:50:46.679 --> 00:50:49.400 I didn't know that my distal radius was broked so 969 00:50:50.519 --> 00:50:54.519 I stay on the objective. I'm carrying some of his stuff. Thankfully, 970 00:50:54.559 --> 00:50:58.519 we actually X filled. I don't know, maybe ten hours later, 971 00:50:59.039 --> 00:51:01.679 Sun comes up in to be there. We ended up leaving, 972 00:51:01.800 --> 00:51:08.039 so I then am taking Mark back to Germany as 973 00:51:08.079 --> 00:51:10.760 his medic to make sure he has that continual care 974 00:51:11.039 --> 00:51:14.800 that he gets the care we had the what a 975 00:51:14.840 --> 00:51:18.760 good call it the it wasn't the Wounded Warrior program, 976 00:51:18.960 --> 00:51:21.320 but it was the one for special operations, special offers 977 00:51:21.360 --> 00:51:23.719 of care coalition. Here we go. So I took him 978 00:51:23.719 --> 00:51:25.519 back and kind of did a handover with them to 979 00:51:25.559 --> 00:51:27.480 make sure that he was taken care of, and then 980 00:51:27.480 --> 00:51:30.079 I was going to fly back into country to get 981 00:51:30.119 --> 00:51:33.880 back with Recuteam and continue. While I was there, my 982 00:51:34.280 --> 00:51:36.440 wrist was like really hurting, his swollen, just had some 983 00:51:36.480 --> 00:51:39.039 eight wrap around it. Didn't think much of it, and 984 00:51:39.079 --> 00:51:40.719 one of the doctors was like, hey, you know, we 985 00:51:40.840 --> 00:51:42.639 just take an X ray of it, but sure, So 986 00:51:42.760 --> 00:51:44.639 I took an X ray and it was, you know, 987 00:51:44.760 --> 00:51:47.239 fractured my distal radius and we can't send it back 988 00:51:47.239 --> 00:51:49.679 into countries. So they put a cast on me right 989 00:51:49.719 --> 00:51:53.760 there and I got back to the date. So it 990 00:51:53.880 --> 00:51:56.639 is what it is. I was a little irritated about that, 991 00:51:57.360 --> 00:51:59.920 but that was my second diploma. I think that was, 992 00:52:00.599 --> 00:52:02.480 or it was a third deployment at that time. 993 00:52:02.760 --> 00:52:05.280 Did you I know you left, but did you were 994 00:52:05.280 --> 00:52:06.280 you in the AAR? 995 00:52:06.440 --> 00:52:07.639 I mean, did you it? 996 00:52:08.119 --> 00:52:12.400 Like one sixty pilots are notoriously like amazing and yeah. 997 00:52:12.280 --> 00:52:13.480 I actually have the video. 998 00:52:14.559 --> 00:52:17.559 It seems like an odd choice to put you guys 999 00:52:17.639 --> 00:52:20.679 down on it was there was. 1000 00:52:20.599 --> 00:52:22.719 There was some lessons to be learned from that. 1001 00:52:22.880 --> 00:52:26.000 Of course. I talked to the pilots after the fact. 1002 00:52:26.000 --> 00:52:27.760 They came to visit Mark and that's a good thing 1003 00:52:27.800 --> 00:52:28.800 about the community too. 1004 00:52:28.880 --> 00:52:29.760 They came back you know. 1005 00:52:29.760 --> 00:52:32.960 Hey, you know we didn't there's obviously an issue with 1006 00:52:33.039 --> 00:52:36.320 communication there. The rope master should have known or you know, somebody. 1007 00:52:36.760 --> 00:52:39.679 It's sure you should have known. Yeah, yeah, but they were. 1008 00:52:39.719 --> 00:52:41.480 They were great about it, and it did become part 1009 00:52:41.480 --> 00:52:43.519 of the AR and I think they used it in 1010 00:52:43.760 --> 00:52:46.280 our m lats and stuff like that after. 1011 00:52:47.760 --> 00:52:52.639 Yeah. So that's the end of that, and then you're 1012 00:52:52.679 --> 00:52:55.559 back at the mother station healing up at Benning. 1013 00:52:57.400 --> 00:53:00.599 Yeah, for the most part, Yeah, it was. It was 1014 00:53:00.679 --> 00:53:04.719 quite an experience so that at this time, you know, 1015 00:53:05.159 --> 00:53:08.800 I've been somewhat running gunning school doing all this stuff. 1016 00:53:08.800 --> 00:53:12.559 And now I'm on rear D. So there's like fifteen 1017 00:53:12.639 --> 00:53:16.440 people on rear D, right, and so it's just like staff, 1018 00:53:17.360 --> 00:53:19.840 I don't know if you yeah, yeah, I don't have 1019 00:53:19.880 --> 00:53:22.559 to do my hands. So but there was you know, 1020 00:53:22.599 --> 00:53:24.159 some good n c os that were on red D 1021 00:53:24.280 --> 00:53:26.320 and they didn't. They were like, hey, go go home. 1022 00:53:26.880 --> 00:53:27.360 He left. 1023 00:53:27.440 --> 00:53:28.960 You know, we don't really have too much folio. 1024 00:53:29.079 --> 00:53:33.559 So they left me. It's pretty good to go. And 1025 00:53:33.559 --> 00:53:35.760 I think I came in like said staff duty and 1026 00:53:35.760 --> 00:53:38.280 I still I became like an l and O for 1027 00:53:38.360 --> 00:53:40.719 a medics. So I would go to Martin Army, get supplies, 1028 00:53:40.800 --> 00:53:42.480 put them on the seats, have a team, ship them 1029 00:53:42.480 --> 00:53:45.039 over if they needed it. Kind of did what I 1030 00:53:45.119 --> 00:53:46.599 what I need, what they needed me to do. 1031 00:53:48.079 --> 00:53:50.519 And was did you stay with WRECKI? 1032 00:53:50.599 --> 00:53:59.679 After that, I think, uh no, I think that might 1033 00:53:59.719 --> 00:54:01.559 have been no, Yes I did. I did. 1034 00:54:01.719 --> 00:54:03.599 I had another deployment directly after that. 1035 00:54:04.079 --> 00:54:06.039 Where were you? 1036 00:54:06.039 --> 00:54:08.440 No, It's okay, we're going, we're going, We're going way 1037 00:54:08.480 --> 00:54:11.920 down memory lane. Yeah, I got it, yep. 1038 00:54:12.039 --> 00:54:13.599 So that was another deployment to. 1039 00:54:17.000 --> 00:54:19.440 The learnout yep. So I've gone to learning that. It 1040 00:54:19.519 --> 00:54:20.480 was the second time. 1041 00:54:21.079 --> 00:54:25.079 Learn and that one was we were dug in pretty 1042 00:54:25.079 --> 00:54:28.920 good with Charlie Company. I think they had two platoons 1043 00:54:28.960 --> 00:54:33.440 there and we had you know, some you know, Dead 1044 00:54:33.480 --> 00:54:35.920 Group folks there and some other folks I think at 1045 00:54:35.920 --> 00:54:41.119 the time. So but that that's the point there. It was. 1046 00:54:43.360 --> 00:54:45.920 We did I don't we kind of did a little 1047 00:54:45.960 --> 00:54:47.199 bit more of you know. 1048 00:54:47.119 --> 00:54:50.280 The target isolation that you were talking about, a little 1049 00:54:50.320 --> 00:54:51.920 bit less PTR type stuff. 1050 00:54:53.960 --> 00:54:55.639 It was a pretty good, good trip. 1051 00:54:56.320 --> 00:55:00.000 What was there less CTR because there was less opportunity 1052 00:55:00.159 --> 00:55:04.320 or because there was more risk avoidance? 1053 00:55:04.400 --> 00:55:06.760 I think, oh, you know what it wasn't I think 1054 00:55:06.800 --> 00:55:11.920 it was? No, it wasnt all right. When I was 1055 00:55:11.920 --> 00:55:14.400 speaking before and I said it was Serno and Chapman, 1056 00:55:14.400 --> 00:55:19.519 I'm sorry, it was we had Team and Jabad and 1057 00:55:20.480 --> 00:55:22.239 we had some folks out in Chapman. But on this 1058 00:55:22.400 --> 00:55:25.159 time it was I'm pretty sure. 1059 00:55:25.800 --> 00:55:28.639 Okay, I apologize. My memory is just not that bad. 1060 00:55:28.760 --> 00:55:29.559 Oh No, it's okay. 1061 00:55:29.880 --> 00:55:31.480 When I think of what I did. 1062 00:55:31.280 --> 00:55:33.079 On the deployments and who I was with, that's when 1063 00:55:33.079 --> 00:55:36.519 I started putting the pieces together. But I know we 1064 00:55:36.639 --> 00:55:38.800 worked a lot with I think it was Charlie Company 1065 00:55:38.840 --> 00:55:39.280 at the time. 1066 00:55:41.280 --> 00:55:45.239 So the mission it sounds like it changed a little 1067 00:55:45.280 --> 00:55:47.119 bit by that that trip. 1068 00:55:47.880 --> 00:55:48.960 It was kind of lethargic. 1069 00:55:50.159 --> 00:55:51.159 And what year was. 1070 00:55:53.559 --> 00:55:55.280 If you remember, roughly. 1071 00:55:55.559 --> 00:56:01.000 Yeah, two thousand and six, mid two thousand and seven, 1072 00:56:01.079 --> 00:56:08.360 I was back into I was a jac seumatic. Okay, yeah, 1073 00:56:08.360 --> 00:56:09.239 I think that's about right. 1074 00:56:10.880 --> 00:56:13.679 So yeah, unless there's any like memorable ops that you'd 1075 00:56:13.760 --> 00:56:15.760 like to talk about from that deployment, let's let's go 1076 00:56:15.880 --> 00:56:16.840 into the being the. 1077 00:56:17.480 --> 00:56:20.400 Yeah, so well, there was we had this one trip 1078 00:56:20.559 --> 00:56:21.480 where we went to. 1079 00:56:23.559 --> 00:56:24.079 We were in. 1080 00:56:26.480 --> 00:56:28.000 Where did we move from? I think we were in 1081 00:56:28.159 --> 00:56:31.519 Jabad and we're going north fallowing the river and the 1082 00:56:31.639 --> 00:56:35.280 mortar platoon they were going up to because they were 1083 00:56:35.320 --> 00:56:37.880 acting kind of like as a platoon at the time, 1084 00:56:39.199 --> 00:56:42.400 and one of their trucks, that drone had drove off 1085 00:56:42.480 --> 00:56:44.719 the cliff and we actually lost a couple of guys. 1086 00:56:45.800 --> 00:56:49.559 So that was that was a pretty hard deployment as 1087 00:56:49.599 --> 00:56:52.599 far as I think as a ranger medic. Of course, 1088 00:56:52.639 --> 00:56:54.480 I had nothing to do with you know, I wasn't 1089 00:56:54.480 --> 00:56:57.159 able to treat them. We didn't even know that, you know, 1090 00:56:57.239 --> 00:57:00.400 it had happened. It was worst case scenario forst case as. 1091 00:57:00.440 --> 00:57:02.679 But but that was like one of the first times. 1092 00:57:02.480 --> 00:57:05.679 Of experiencing like loss like that visceral. 1093 00:57:06.000 --> 00:57:08.320 These are people you know, we just saw the other day, 1094 00:57:08.440 --> 00:57:10.920 and so there was a little bit of processing of that, 1095 00:57:12.480 --> 00:57:16.320 but it wasn't as you know, this real was later 1096 00:57:16.400 --> 00:57:18.559 on in my career where you know, it was a 1097 00:57:18.559 --> 00:57:21.480 little right in front of me. So so I think 1098 00:57:21.519 --> 00:57:25.760 that was a pretty memorable event. And it it kind 1099 00:57:25.800 --> 00:57:29.119 of like blowed things down a little bit and and 1100 00:57:29.519 --> 00:57:31.840 things got to you know, sometimes we're going after it 1101 00:57:31.920 --> 00:57:34.639 and we're just taking a cycle going out, and that 1102 00:57:34.840 --> 00:57:37.119 that kind of made everybody kind of test the pause. 1103 00:57:38.079 --> 00:57:43.280 We're going we're going to a bad bad for I 1104 00:57:43.360 --> 00:57:44.719 don't remember what the part it was. 1105 00:57:46.159 --> 00:57:47.400 I don't remember a lot of time ago. 1106 00:57:47.559 --> 00:57:52.599 But it's kind of crazy that there aren't more stories 1107 00:57:52.840 --> 00:57:58.360 about that because those roads, those mountainous roads, were treacherous 1108 00:57:58.920 --> 00:58:01.599 and unbelievable driving under nods. 1109 00:58:01.519 --> 00:58:03.639 In tough conditions a lot of times. 1110 00:58:04.360 --> 00:58:06.519 And you know, like when you're in the passenger side 1111 00:58:06.840 --> 00:58:10.159 of like your Humvier technical whatever, like you're looking down 1112 00:58:10.400 --> 00:58:12.199 over oh yeah, over. 1113 00:58:12.599 --> 00:58:16.360 When you're trusting this guy with like one not PBS fourteens, 1114 00:58:16.480 --> 00:58:20.039 like yeah, man, and they've never scared my life. 1115 00:58:20.280 --> 00:58:23.559 Yeah, And the fact that there aren't just like story 1116 00:58:23.639 --> 00:58:27.800 after story of trucks going all over the side is amazing. 1117 00:58:29.039 --> 00:58:32.519 Yeah, we we you know, we had some folks. You know, 1118 00:58:32.840 --> 00:58:36.559 a lot of injuries do come from a non combat 1119 00:58:36.679 --> 00:58:43.360 if you will. It's unfortunate, but it's it's just remember 1120 00:58:43.840 --> 00:58:47.639 going through because dudes get hurt in a vehicle and 1121 00:58:47.679 --> 00:58:50.199 it's not a purple heart producing thing, but you know, 1122 00:58:50.360 --> 00:58:52.480 still get hurt, they get spent back, they got wounds. 1123 00:58:52.519 --> 00:58:54.760 You know, like Brian Valentine, you know, he's a command 1124 00:58:54.800 --> 00:58:58.760 startant major, you know, because you know, robotic arm I 1125 00:58:58.840 --> 00:58:59.000 call it. 1126 00:58:59.119 --> 00:59:00.760 It's not but he's just you know, hurt some of 1127 00:59:00.800 --> 00:59:01.559 the tricets there. 1128 00:59:01.639 --> 00:59:03.639 But like these folks go back and it's like, well, 1129 00:59:03.760 --> 00:59:07.280 you know, it wasn't combat related, but it was, you know, 1130 00:59:07.320 --> 00:59:09.440 And so these folks are dealing with this kind of 1131 00:59:09.440 --> 00:59:11.719 stuff as they transition out and dealing with the VA 1132 00:59:11.920 --> 00:59:14.599 and you know, luckily, you know, it's in a time 1133 00:59:14.639 --> 00:59:16.559 of war in a foreign country. It's pretty easy to 1134 00:59:16.639 --> 00:59:17.880 show that that's slumber related. 1135 00:59:17.920 --> 00:59:20.639 But and even you know, I talked about it for 1136 00:59:20.840 --> 00:59:21.320 Mark Foster. 1137 00:59:21.440 --> 00:59:23.360 You know, he breaks his back, but it's not due 1138 00:59:23.400 --> 00:59:25.079 to enemy fire. It's not like that. 1139 00:59:25.280 --> 00:59:27.400 But he's still wounded just the same and right, it's 1140 00:59:27.400 --> 00:59:28.480 going to affect him for life. 1141 00:59:29.320 --> 00:59:31.159 It's just kind of stuff. It's a bummer. But we 1142 00:59:31.239 --> 00:59:33.760 did have a lot of vehicle accidents roll over, especially 1143 00:59:34.360 --> 00:59:37.800 as we you know, transition to strikers in Iraq, it 1144 00:59:37.920 --> 00:59:40.039 became a lot more proli prevenant. 1145 00:59:40.440 --> 00:59:42.800 Yeah, and you know, I'm sure we'll talk about this 1146 00:59:42.960 --> 00:59:46.360 later as we get on. But even like the Marines 1147 00:59:46.679 --> 00:59:50.920 in Syria and the number of like artillery rounds they fired, 1148 00:59:52.480 --> 00:59:57.199 having such severe repercussions on them for blast injuries, you know, 1149 00:59:57.280 --> 01:00:01.840 hallucinations and psychosis and all these things that it was 1150 01:00:01.920 --> 01:00:05.480 in war, but no purple hearts and no like none 1151 01:00:05.519 --> 01:00:08.840 of that that valor, you know, sort of recognition. 1152 01:00:09.000 --> 01:00:11.400 And I'm we didn't we didn't know what we were 1153 01:00:11.480 --> 01:00:15.000 doing back then either to especially somebody for a mount 1154 01:00:15.039 --> 01:00:18.239 traumatic brain injuries TBIs and you know, you got your 1155 01:00:18.280 --> 01:00:20.559 bell rung and like, I'm not going to put this 1156 01:00:20.639 --> 01:00:22.400 one out. You know, they're going out. This could be 1157 01:00:23.079 --> 01:00:25.159 in lot and rate, you know, so like we're going 1158 01:00:25.199 --> 01:00:28.599 out tomorrow and going so I think, you know, that 1159 01:00:28.760 --> 01:00:31.239 was obviously not the right way to do it. And 1160 01:00:31.719 --> 01:00:37.039 now we have more comprehensive traumatic brain injury process and 1161 01:00:37.280 --> 01:00:39.039 so thankfully, yeah. 1162 01:00:38.920 --> 01:00:42.280 They're they're passing some legislation now that they're going to 1163 01:00:42.360 --> 01:00:46.360 take the soldiers bio markers early on so that you 1164 01:00:46.480 --> 01:00:48.800 have something to compare it to before and after and 1165 01:00:48.920 --> 01:00:51.199 you can have a better judge of what kind of 1166 01:00:51.320 --> 01:00:53.639 damage may have been done to these guys. So there 1167 01:00:53.760 --> 01:00:56.360 is no that's progress is slow, but it is happening. 1168 01:00:56.400 --> 01:00:59.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah, because a lot of it's, you know, 1169 01:00:59.159 --> 01:01:02.519 unfortunately the versle and so trying to figure out, you know, 1170 01:01:02.679 --> 01:01:06.239 how to manage these types of folks and manage their day. 1171 01:01:06.119 --> 01:01:07.840 To day life for the rest of their life. 1172 01:01:08.079 --> 01:01:08.280 Yeah. 1173 01:01:08.400 --> 01:01:10.920 Yeah, we're learning so much more, and a lot of 1174 01:01:11.000 --> 01:01:13.760 that is borrow technology from even. 1175 01:01:13.599 --> 01:01:18.519 The NFL showing these micro tears and abrasions and sprains 1176 01:01:18.559 --> 01:01:21.960 and what that does to them. It's it's unfortunate that 1177 01:01:22.039 --> 01:01:25.280 it happened to folks, but you know, unfortunate to get 1178 01:01:25.320 --> 01:01:26.760 that information in what it produced. 1179 01:01:26.880 --> 01:01:29.719 Yeah, those concussion docs from the NFL are really sort 1180 01:01:29.719 --> 01:01:31.440 of some of the guys on the cutting edge. 1181 01:01:31.280 --> 01:01:32.159 Of a lot of this stuff. 1182 01:01:32.880 --> 01:01:37.599 Oh sure, yeah, I've had several TBIs, so, you know, 1183 01:01:38.400 --> 01:01:40.119 folks that are out there that have to do that. 1184 01:01:40.199 --> 01:01:43.440 Joint Knowledge online TBI concussion training. 1185 01:01:43.559 --> 01:01:46.480 I'm actually in there as like a guest speaker of 1186 01:01:46.880 --> 01:01:49.199 you know, don't do what I did and don't just 1187 01:01:49.320 --> 01:01:51.000 try to go out the next day or like if 1188 01:01:51.039 --> 01:01:54.480 I say something, maybe they won't take me out. That's 1189 01:01:54.559 --> 01:01:56.320 that's really not the right way to do it. Yeah, 1190 01:01:56.360 --> 01:01:58.519 when you put yourself out there, even as a medic, 1191 01:01:59.159 --> 01:02:00.760 you might be one of one, you might be one 1192 01:02:00.800 --> 01:02:02.840 or two knows, but you go out there and if 1193 01:02:02.840 --> 01:02:05.719 you're not one hundred percent, you shouldn't be out there. Yeah. 1194 01:02:05.800 --> 01:02:09.559 Yeah, fire ninety Carl Gustav rounds at the rain right right. 1195 01:02:09.679 --> 01:02:12.800 The spendex is for Karl Gustav's where it becomes torture 1196 01:02:13.039 --> 01:02:17.119 that stuff. Yeah, or just like breaching night after night 1197 01:02:17.159 --> 01:02:19.400 after night, and like some you know, because P for 1198 01:02:19.519 --> 01:02:22.360 plenty is the universal formula for a breach. So like 1199 01:02:22.559 --> 01:02:25.400 you know, standing next you know, close to the breach 1200 01:02:25.480 --> 01:02:27.679 and then it's like it rocks you and you know, 1201 01:02:27.760 --> 01:02:30.440 you see the white it's like okay, go go, go go, 1202 01:02:31.559 --> 01:02:34.079 and the night after night, it like we're just now 1203 01:02:34.199 --> 01:02:35.440 learning about the effects. 1204 01:02:35.079 --> 01:02:38.599 Of all that stuff. Yeah, absolutely, but luckily you know 1205 01:02:38.639 --> 01:02:40.440 they've got the Range of Medic handbook out there, and 1206 01:02:41.039 --> 01:02:45.000 you know, they've got pretty comprehensive field evaluations and some 1207 01:02:45.199 --> 01:02:47.679 of it's even do it over computers, but it helps 1208 01:02:48.039 --> 01:02:48.719 keep that record. 1209 01:02:48.920 --> 01:02:51.280 Oh interesting, glad where they're at now. 1210 01:02:51.960 --> 01:02:54.880 So then you come back and you become the senior 1211 01:02:54.960 --> 01:02:55.880 medic for HGC. 1212 01:02:57.159 --> 01:02:57.360 Yep. 1213 01:02:57.760 --> 01:03:00.519 Yeah, so and that was kind of like a I 1214 01:03:00.559 --> 01:03:01.920 don't know if the undefined role. 1215 01:03:02.000 --> 01:03:04.519 And I also did like Headquarters Platoon slegant pret JC, 1216 01:03:04.800 --> 01:03:06.679 so it kind of was what I made of it. 1217 01:03:07.599 --> 01:03:09.599 Like I said, we had a great surgeon, great pas 1218 01:03:09.639 --> 01:03:11.880 at the time, and so this was my chance to 1219 01:03:11.960 --> 01:03:16.480 work with you know, Recky Sniper Canine TSC. It had 1220 01:03:16.599 --> 01:03:19.000 really taken off with this time and kind of made 1221 01:03:19.039 --> 01:03:21.440 a really big effect of mortar platoons and AHAC at 1222 01:03:21.480 --> 01:03:24.920 the time. So it had that really good responsibility of 1223 01:03:25.239 --> 01:03:27.480 making sure all those medics were trained and everybody had 1224 01:03:27.519 --> 01:03:30.880 what they had And a big part of you know, 1225 01:03:31.159 --> 01:03:34.079 being in that senior medical position too is what I 1226 01:03:34.119 --> 01:03:36.800 think the Range of regiment is phenomenal at is is 1227 01:03:36.880 --> 01:03:40.199 incorporating medical training into everything you do. So it doesn't 1228 01:03:40.199 --> 01:03:42.280 matter if we're going to the range for whatever, you know, 1229 01:03:42.400 --> 01:03:44.320 how do we assess the casualty we're on that range 1230 01:03:44.360 --> 01:03:46.599 and not tell anybody, you know. So they get there 1231 01:03:46.599 --> 01:03:48.800 and you've got to make sure that all these ranger 1232 01:03:48.960 --> 01:03:51.079 privates and all the way up to the you know, 1233 01:03:51.119 --> 01:03:53.440 it started a major but they know how to do 1234 01:03:53.599 --> 01:03:56.559 teachtorpal c and how to get this casualty, you know, 1235 01:03:56.719 --> 01:03:59.800 to a surgical asset, the definitive care. 1236 01:04:00.039 --> 01:04:02.320 As rapidly as possible and faith as possible. 1237 01:04:02.440 --> 01:04:04.920 So being able to get in there and just kind 1238 01:04:04.920 --> 01:04:07.480 of think of, well, what would a mortar platuam like, 1239 01:04:07.599 --> 01:04:09.920 what would their scenario look like if they took the 1240 01:04:10.039 --> 01:04:12.880 casualty and kind of you know, figuring out what was 1241 01:04:14.320 --> 01:04:17.480 you know, what was common on the battlefield at the time, 1242 01:04:17.559 --> 01:04:20.000 what were the other battalions, what were they reporting back 1243 01:04:20.519 --> 01:04:26.079 and treating training opportunities. I think that was kind of 1244 01:04:26.360 --> 01:04:31.880 activated my nerd sense of humor at the time, because 1245 01:04:31.880 --> 01:04:35.119 that made them pretty fun and sadistic. 1246 01:04:36.280 --> 01:04:37.880 Can you give us an example of what fun and 1247 01:04:37.920 --> 01:04:38.840 sadistic might look like? 1248 01:04:39.880 --> 01:04:42.320 Oh yeah, so it would be you know, just coming 1249 01:04:42.360 --> 01:04:46.800 back from a range and fla you know, took ahead 1250 01:04:46.960 --> 01:04:49.280 or whatever, and the medica had no clue. They'd pull 1251 01:04:49.320 --> 01:04:52.400 open the aid bag and it'd be like candy and 1252 01:04:52.800 --> 01:04:55.199 snacks or whatever, and it turned into like a ten 1253 01:04:55.280 --> 01:04:57.880 hour how long field care, you know, stuff like that. 1254 01:04:58.119 --> 01:05:01.760 So I mean it was it was for a purpose, sure, 1255 01:05:01.960 --> 01:05:04.079 but it was it was unpleasant. 1256 01:05:05.960 --> 01:05:07.960 And uh so what was the next stop for you 1257 01:05:08.880 --> 01:05:09.760 after this position? 1258 01:05:12.159 --> 01:05:20.719 So pretty much just oh I got shot, Yeah, yeah, 1259 01:05:20.960 --> 01:05:25.199 I forgot about that one, so deployed again. I was 1260 01:05:25.320 --> 01:05:28.480 with Charlie Company, second platoon Mike call Balls platoon at 1261 01:05:28.519 --> 01:05:34.559 the time, and uh for Sartin Nichols, I think we 1262 01:05:34.679 --> 01:05:37.599 had at the time for h AC. We were up 1263 01:05:37.719 --> 01:05:42.039 on the objective and we got these strikers, this humbled 1264 01:05:42.199 --> 01:05:46.599 and mud coming off an objective, and so we had 1265 01:05:46.639 --> 01:05:48.519 to wait for like the third id to come out 1266 01:05:48.559 --> 01:05:51.519 in the giant you know, records tanks or whatever they're called. 1267 01:05:53.000 --> 01:05:56.039 And so the sun started coming up, and I guess 1268 01:05:56.159 --> 01:05:57.719 I was the one that they wanted to hit. So 1269 01:05:58.360 --> 01:06:00.880 I got hit through my foot and my thigh. 1270 01:06:01.079 --> 01:06:03.159 I was the only one hit as far as I remember, 1271 01:06:03.239 --> 01:06:06.960 And it wasn't like a huge like firefight, So I 1272 01:06:07.000 --> 01:06:09.239 guess I was the wrong place at the right con 1273 01:06:09.320 --> 01:06:12.679 I supposed, but like got hit. Obviously came back from 1274 01:06:12.719 --> 01:06:17.559 that came back Stateside yet again and did the whole 1275 01:06:17.559 --> 01:06:18.719 real d thing for a little while. 1276 01:06:18.880 --> 01:06:21.239 How bad did you mind if I asked, like, how, like, 1277 01:06:21.559 --> 01:06:23.239 how bad was it when you got hit your foot 1278 01:06:23.280 --> 01:06:23.599 and thigh? 1279 01:06:24.880 --> 01:06:27.880 Yeah, so it actually wasn't that bad. At the time, 1280 01:06:29.000 --> 01:06:30.800 people like, yeah, getting shot, it's not that bad. But 1281 01:06:31.760 --> 01:06:34.960 at the time I had a Smith and Wesson swat 1282 01:06:35.199 --> 01:06:38.079 pocket knife in my pocket in the ground actually hit 1283 01:06:38.199 --> 01:06:41.039 the knife, so the knife and the round are still 1284 01:06:41.119 --> 01:06:43.960 in my leg, and I got shot through my foot. 1285 01:06:45.119 --> 01:06:47.800 And growing up as a medic, you know, they always 1286 01:06:47.800 --> 01:06:50.679 taught us. And I had Mike's Melvin who's a phenomenal manic, 1287 01:06:51.239 --> 01:06:53.440 you know, so he was taking care of me and 1288 01:06:53.519 --> 01:06:55.480 I was also doing you know, I had to fend 1289 01:06:55.519 --> 01:06:59.400 a lollipop. You know, I ain't playing around right. But 1290 01:06:59.480 --> 01:07:01.639 we always the thing where like if it's pushed in 1291 01:07:01.719 --> 01:07:03.599 your boot, so you push off on a boot and 1292 01:07:03.639 --> 01:07:06.559 they have the little eyelids, you know, blood comes out, 1293 01:07:06.679 --> 01:07:08.840 then you might hit an artery because blood will go 1294 01:07:08.880 --> 01:07:11.320 down your leg and fill your boot whatever. So at 1295 01:07:11.360 --> 01:07:13.440 the time my boot I could feel it squshing and 1296 01:07:13.519 --> 01:07:16.000 I was like, oh man, I thought I at that time, 1297 01:07:16.039 --> 01:07:17.960 I thought it was archier bleed. I got to turn 1298 01:07:18.000 --> 01:07:18.840 a kid on, you know. 1299 01:07:19.079 --> 01:07:21.679 Doing what I'm supposed to do. But come to find out, 1300 01:07:21.719 --> 01:07:23.280 I actually got hit on the top of the foot 1301 01:07:23.320 --> 01:07:25.480 and that's where the blood of my boot was coming from. 1302 01:07:25.639 --> 01:07:28.000 So it actually wasn't as bad. 1303 01:07:28.480 --> 01:07:30.320 Excuse, it wasn't as bad as it could have been. 1304 01:07:30.440 --> 01:07:32.960 If that knife wasn't in my pocket, it would have 1305 01:07:33.320 --> 01:07:36.760 shadowed my female you sent mass, So it definitely would 1306 01:07:36.760 --> 01:07:37.400 have been a bad day. 1307 01:07:37.599 --> 01:07:38.960 And think of how much paint it would have been 1308 01:07:39.039 --> 01:07:41.360 had you not already been sucking on that lollipop. 1309 01:07:41.519 --> 01:07:43.800 Oh, before I even hit the ground, I was like 1310 01:07:43.920 --> 01:07:51.760 falling on that ny Yeah, I got to cover and 1311 01:07:51.800 --> 01:07:54.119 all that stuff. Yeah, but by the time I got 1312 01:07:54.159 --> 01:07:56.679 on the striker, I was You know, if anybody has 1313 01:07:56.719 --> 01:07:59.159 been treated by me, they either don't remember it or 1314 01:07:59.199 --> 01:08:01.000 they got really hot and they thank you for it. 1315 01:08:01.159 --> 01:08:04.159 So I was pretty Uh that was pretty generous. 1316 01:08:04.400 --> 01:08:06.840 Yeah, so high on your own supply. 1317 01:08:07.400 --> 01:08:11.079 Literally, I don't mean that in a way of anything 1318 01:08:11.159 --> 01:08:12.119 that farious whatsoever. 1319 01:08:13.039 --> 01:08:16.920 This is all and just so when you got hit 1320 01:08:17.960 --> 01:08:20.319 the first the tourniquet, did you apply to the tournic yourself? 1321 01:08:20.399 --> 01:08:21.640 Was it all self care at that point? 1322 01:08:23.560 --> 01:08:25.760 I don't remember. Yeah, I guess it was so like 1323 01:08:26.039 --> 01:08:28.079 by the book. I don't remember if I did, or 1324 01:08:28.279 --> 01:08:30.319 it might have even been first Start Nickel at the time. 1325 01:08:31.119 --> 01:08:34.359 I honestly don't remember. But you know, if anybody wants 1326 01:08:34.439 --> 01:08:36.680 to know what it feels like to get shot without 1327 01:08:36.680 --> 01:08:40.159 actually getting shot, it's almost like somebody punches you as 1328 01:08:40.199 --> 01:08:42.439 hard as they can and like your funny bone, so 1329 01:08:42.520 --> 01:08:45.720 it's like that really weird, awkward feeling and then you 1330 01:08:45.840 --> 01:08:48.680 take like an iron and burn it. So it's very, 1331 01:08:48.800 --> 01:08:52.479 very hot, and and I got over that relatively quickly. 1332 01:08:52.680 --> 01:08:55.279 Adrenaline kicked in and I was like, oh, it's so bad. 1333 01:08:56.119 --> 01:08:58.880 But the hours after, where your muscle is just trying 1334 01:08:58.960 --> 01:09:01.399 to swell and you're in wants the pop, that was 1335 01:09:01.520 --> 01:09:05.760 probably the worst. Yeah, that hurt really bad. Yeah that's unpleasant. 1336 01:09:07.359 --> 01:09:11.600 So back on rear d doing staff duty again again? 1337 01:09:12.079 --> 01:09:14.760 Yeah, how was how was rehab for you? Like being 1338 01:09:14.800 --> 01:09:16.359 shot in the foot, like there's a lot of bones 1339 01:09:16.359 --> 01:09:16.720 in there that. 1340 01:09:18.159 --> 01:09:20.680 They actually missed them. Yeah, I got so lucky, man, 1341 01:09:20.920 --> 01:09:23.319 telling you, like, I don't think you could set it 1342 01:09:23.439 --> 01:09:25.479 up and do it again. So on the top of 1343 01:09:25.560 --> 01:09:29.079 my foot the bullet came right in and like just 1344 01:09:29.159 --> 01:09:31.920 went over all my bones went right off the other side. Wow. 1345 01:09:32.399 --> 01:09:35.239 So I was the pretty lucky chat Yeah. 1346 01:09:36.560 --> 01:09:42.359 These were Yeah, ship man, it's crazy. 1347 01:09:43.159 --> 01:09:45.840 Yeah, because that's not common. Usually, you know, they'll mushroom 1348 01:09:46.000 --> 01:09:48.399 up and just take everything out. Yeah, there's there's a 1349 01:09:48.399 --> 01:09:52.359 lot of a lot of velocity behind there. But I 1350 01:09:52.439 --> 01:09:52.960 got lucky. 1351 01:09:53.520 --> 01:09:55.840 Did did you did you tell this? 1352 01:09:56.319 --> 01:09:59.279 Did you tell Smith and Wesson that their knife potentially 1353 01:09:59.319 --> 01:09:59.920 saved your life? 1354 01:10:00.720 --> 01:10:02.439 You bet your butt. I did, and they sent me 1355 01:10:02.760 --> 01:10:04.920 it sent me like twenty thirty nine. I bet you. 1356 01:10:05.079 --> 01:10:06.039 I was wondering if they did. 1357 01:10:06.159 --> 01:10:08.000 Yeah, yeah, sure did. 1358 01:10:08.880 --> 01:10:11.239 It sent me a bunch of knives though, good on them. 1359 01:10:13.000 --> 01:10:15.920 I also got a shrider Knight, So I'm trying to 1360 01:10:15.920 --> 01:10:18.479 remember where I got it. It was one of the 1361 01:10:18.680 --> 01:10:21.840 r RG guys knew the person that made them. 1362 01:10:24.159 --> 01:10:29.000 I can't remember who actually gave it to me, but anyways, 1363 01:10:29.000 --> 01:10:31.960 they gave me a nice like handmade. It was just 1364 01:10:33.000 --> 01:10:33.720 it was really cool. 1365 01:10:34.359 --> 01:10:39.600 Yeah, so you're getting better. What's that process to recovery 1366 01:10:39.880 --> 01:10:41.399 into getting back out on the job. 1367 01:10:43.000 --> 01:10:45.760 Well, so when it comes to my felf, probably in 1368 01:10:45.880 --> 01:10:48.479 my family and the worst medic possible. So I just 1369 01:10:48.600 --> 01:10:52.359 went straight into well, you know, it's not muscle skeletal anymore. 1370 01:10:52.520 --> 01:10:54.159 You know, I didn't break any bone with it, there's 1371 01:10:54.199 --> 01:10:57.640 no fracture there. Might as well just you know, start 1372 01:10:57.720 --> 01:11:00.760 running so I get back after it. So probably within 1373 01:11:00.840 --> 01:11:03.319 a few weeks and I would get back after it. 1374 01:11:03.479 --> 01:11:10.720 And then I went to Seers School. Probably I don't know, 1375 01:11:11.199 --> 01:11:12.720 four or five months after getting shot. 1376 01:11:12.760 --> 01:11:17.000 I went, you should be checked into a mental institution, Like. 1377 01:11:17.199 --> 01:11:17.840 What the hell? 1378 01:11:18.399 --> 01:11:20.199 Well, I mean, yeah, I had an opportunity to go 1379 01:11:20.279 --> 01:11:20.960 to Seers School. 1380 01:11:21.000 --> 01:11:21.359 I go to. 1381 01:11:23.800 --> 01:11:23.840 It. 1382 01:11:23.960 --> 01:11:25.079 Just seemed like the right thing to do. 1383 01:11:25.560 --> 01:11:27.560 Rangering through it, that's awesome. 1384 01:11:28.520 --> 01:11:32.159 Yeah, pretty much. And looking back at the stupid is 1385 01:11:32.199 --> 01:11:32.960 I pay for it now? 1386 01:11:33.520 --> 01:11:33.760 Yeah? 1387 01:11:34.319 --> 01:11:36.000 Not that, not that it would have made a difference 1388 01:11:36.039 --> 01:11:36.520 back then. 1389 01:11:38.239 --> 01:11:40.319 As a medic now knowing what I know now, for 1390 01:11:40.399 --> 01:11:43.960 all you people out there listening, physical therapy, occupational therapy, 1391 01:11:44.039 --> 01:11:47.119 don't mess around, do it, do it right, and it'll 1392 01:11:47.159 --> 01:11:50.640 make a lasting difference on your recovery in your life 1393 01:11:50.760 --> 01:11:52.640 after for sure. 1394 01:11:52.920 --> 01:11:54.920 So how did you get a slot for Seers School 1395 01:11:54.960 --> 01:11:57.199 from Ranger betime? Because it was that part of a 1396 01:11:57.319 --> 01:11:59.960 rekie thing, because that's not normal for Rangers. 1397 01:12:00.359 --> 01:12:06.199 Yeah, honestly, I don't remember. Kyle Andres another great mind, 1398 01:12:06.359 --> 01:12:08.600 still still great friends. He was like a school guy, 1399 01:12:09.479 --> 01:12:12.159 so I may have been through that. But it was 1400 01:12:12.199 --> 01:12:16.560 also rud D and I don't remember who was on 1401 01:12:17.079 --> 01:12:20.720 it might have been Bishop so a major bishop that 1402 01:12:20.800 --> 01:12:23.359 it was last at the time, I think he was 1403 01:12:23.399 --> 01:12:25.520 running three shops and they're like, hey, we need folks 1404 01:12:25.600 --> 01:12:28.199 for Seer School. And it wasn't directed at me at all, 1405 01:12:28.319 --> 01:12:30.600 but I was like, I'll go, yeah, so. 1406 01:12:32.119 --> 01:12:34.720 Yeah your school ship. Yeah, I'll volunteer. I'll put my 1407 01:12:34.800 --> 01:12:35.359 hand up for that. 1408 01:12:35.560 --> 01:12:39.159 Yes, do that like SCOO Sars, like Scuba where it's like, okay, 1409 01:12:39.199 --> 01:12:41.279 who wants to volunteers? Take a step back. 1410 01:12:42.399 --> 01:12:44.039 No, I mean it was I thought it was. It 1411 01:12:44.119 --> 01:12:45.439 was a pretty good school. It is what it is. 1412 01:12:45.800 --> 01:12:48.279 But it was one of those things that you know, 1413 01:12:48.359 --> 01:12:50.760 my team started and WRECKI at the time had been 1414 01:12:50.880 --> 01:12:52.520 and so you talk about it and it's just like 1415 01:12:53.279 --> 01:12:56.119 I hate not knowing. So I just wanted to knock 1416 01:12:56.159 --> 01:12:56.399 it out. 1417 01:12:56.640 --> 01:12:59.840 Yeah uh. And So what happened after Super. 1418 01:12:59.680 --> 01:13:09.760 School missoil deployment yep. So I went to Midula still 1419 01:13:09.800 --> 01:13:12.319 eight medic and I was a task Force senior medic 1420 01:13:12.399 --> 01:13:15.479 for this area. So we had Bravo Companies tack Up platoon. 1421 01:13:16.600 --> 01:13:20.720 That was Ray Barrett's platoon at the time. Pete Benjel 1422 01:13:20.960 --> 01:13:23.960 was the leader. We had them up in missoil and 1423 01:13:24.399 --> 01:13:27.600 I think as the ranger medic. That was probably one 1424 01:13:27.640 --> 01:13:32.279 of the most devastating deployments that was. It was just 1425 01:13:33.319 --> 01:13:35.800 a man. It's like almost every day for the first 1426 01:13:35.840 --> 01:13:39.720 couple of weeks we were taking casualties and it was 1427 01:13:39.840 --> 01:13:40.600 it was pretty rough. 1428 01:13:41.159 --> 01:13:44.560 This was two thousand and seven, two thousand and eight 1429 01:13:44.640 --> 01:13:45.159 time frame. 1430 01:13:45.760 --> 01:13:48.960 Yep, it was Christmas. Yes, it was full. 1431 01:13:50.239 --> 01:13:52.760 All because we were there for Christmas. 1432 01:13:54.880 --> 01:13:58.800 Yep, yes, tell us about it. 1433 01:13:59.119 --> 01:14:02.760 Yeah, I was just looking back. It was a pretty 1434 01:14:02.760 --> 01:14:03.479 crazy deployment. 1435 01:14:03.920 --> 01:14:08.039 M Ben Dylon, he was killed on the first op 1436 01:14:08.119 --> 01:14:10.760 out there, who I named my friend after. 1437 01:14:10.880 --> 01:14:14.720 But that was that was it. Imagine you know, you're 1438 01:14:14.760 --> 01:14:16.960 the pointing as to strike forth and everybody you know, 1439 01:14:17.279 --> 01:14:19.399 you're amped up. You know it's Mossola, you got a hint, 1440 01:14:19.479 --> 01:14:21.840 you've got a high five from the previous battalion and said, yeah, 1441 01:14:21.840 --> 01:14:24.520 it's been pretty rugged, and you know you're getting ready 1442 01:14:24.560 --> 01:14:27.880 for that. In the first off out we lose a 1443 01:14:27.960 --> 01:14:30.600 ranger and it's just like dang, and you lose momentum 1444 01:14:30.640 --> 01:14:33.560 before you even had it. Yeah, that was pretty heavy. 1445 01:14:33.720 --> 01:14:34.560 That was a heavy lot. 1446 01:14:34.880 --> 01:14:37.159 Yeah, kind of takes the windown of our sales for 1447 01:14:37.199 --> 01:14:37.600 a second. 1448 01:14:38.560 --> 01:14:41.159 Yeah, it does, It really does. And I think as 1449 01:14:41.199 --> 01:14:43.439 a medic it was probably one of the most challenging 1450 01:14:44.119 --> 01:14:47.640 experiences I had. At the time. I had Jeremy March 1451 01:14:47.760 --> 01:14:50.800 with me, which dudes an orthopedic surgeon. Now, it couldn't 1452 01:14:50.840 --> 01:14:53.119 be any more proud of him. Even when he was 1453 01:14:53.199 --> 01:14:57.720 arranger of medic he was just always a sponge learning 1454 01:14:58.880 --> 01:15:01.359 probably one of the best, better range of medics I'd 1455 01:15:01.399 --> 01:15:04.000 worked with. He was there fort Medic and he was 1456 01:15:05.119 --> 01:15:07.000 you know that. I think that hit him pretty hard too. 1457 01:15:07.199 --> 01:15:11.560 So him and I know, we worked together on that 1458 01:15:11.720 --> 01:15:16.399 out and unfortunately outcomesn't what we'd all prayed for. But yeah, 1459 01:15:17.279 --> 01:15:18.680 it was pretty heavy, heavy loss. 1460 01:15:19.800 --> 01:15:23.079 Now, now you've done multiple deployments, and we talked a 1461 01:15:23.119 --> 01:15:27.720 little bit about like sort of the emerging teachable sea care. Uh, 1462 01:15:28.039 --> 01:15:32.560 the technology like prosthetics were you know growing, you had 1463 01:15:33.039 --> 01:15:35.399 the quick quod, like, you had all these things coming out. 1464 01:15:37.000 --> 01:15:40.560 How were you guys managing that from trip to trip? 1465 01:15:41.720 --> 01:15:46.600 Yeah, So we had worked with the JM now on CTM. 1466 01:15:46.760 --> 01:15:50.439 So we would go to Fort Brag and the training 1467 01:15:50.479 --> 01:15:53.640 area out there, so we would be trained up every 1468 01:15:53.640 --> 01:15:56.600 once in a while going with them, which is just 1469 01:15:56.760 --> 01:15:59.600 like at the time, it was just like, wow, you know, 1470 01:15:59.680 --> 01:16:03.520 you've got these the best docs, nurses people in the 1471 01:16:03.600 --> 01:16:06.439 Department of Defense, training and stuff on kind of the 1472 01:16:06.560 --> 01:16:09.720 latest and greatest, and that really kind of opened my 1473 01:16:09.760 --> 01:16:12.800 eye to the organization. I'm sure we'll talk about that later, 1474 01:16:12.920 --> 01:16:15.840 but so and they would really work with us on 1475 01:16:16.279 --> 01:16:17.640 actual medicine and so. 1476 01:16:19.199 --> 01:16:20.399 What we didn't already know. 1477 01:16:20.640 --> 01:16:22.920 We continued to compound and learn and we had that 1478 01:16:23.119 --> 01:16:26.920 institution and organizational knowledge there, and we also had these 1479 01:16:27.000 --> 01:16:31.600 Special Operations that Special Operations Combat Medics. 1480 01:16:31.279 --> 01:16:33.399 Skill Sustainment Course Bockmouth. 1481 01:16:33.920 --> 01:16:36.920 Every two years we would go back to Fort Bragg 1482 01:16:37.039 --> 01:16:40.920 to do our medical refractor with the eighteen Delta's p 1483 01:16:41.119 --> 01:16:45.520 days sometimes the Sparks, the four men, seal medics, whoever 1484 01:16:46.760 --> 01:16:48.920 THEA wants to do, all the medics go back there 1485 01:16:49.000 --> 01:16:54.119 for refresher So we were constantly kind of pushing that 1486 01:16:54.399 --> 01:16:58.439 en below as much as you can, and a lot 1487 01:16:58.479 --> 01:17:00.960 of I know, for me, I was pretty much experimental. 1488 01:17:01.079 --> 01:17:05.760 Sometimes when it came to that stuff not on you. 1489 01:17:05.800 --> 01:17:11.039 Know, experimental and not a morbid morbid way, like I 1490 01:17:11.119 --> 01:17:15.720 would use cutting edge, newer stuff that was out instead 1491 01:17:15.760 --> 01:17:18.119 of kind of reverting back to what everybody always does. 1492 01:17:18.680 --> 01:17:21.760 So like with you know, do an inner ossius instead 1493 01:17:21.760 --> 01:17:23.920 of IV when you're trying to get an IV started 1494 01:17:24.000 --> 01:17:27.159 to push blood on a conduct casually, it's already lost 1495 01:17:27.159 --> 01:17:28.720 a lot of blood. It's it's really hard to do, 1496 01:17:28.880 --> 01:17:32.399 so why not just go into your bone? So I 1497 01:17:32.520 --> 01:17:34.520 was just really aggressive when it comes to stuff like that. 1498 01:17:34.800 --> 01:17:38.359 So I think because of the job, we had to 1499 01:17:38.520 --> 01:17:41.399 advance and we had to be on it, and we 1500 01:17:41.479 --> 01:17:46.119 had the institutional knowledge from the organization at the Rangers 1501 01:17:46.279 --> 01:17:48.680 Regiment because we would come together as a regiment with 1502 01:17:48.760 --> 01:17:52.479 the training. Uh was medics a concern, but then we 1503 01:17:52.560 --> 01:17:57.279 had the non organic stuff from softness and from the 1504 01:17:57.399 --> 01:18:01.199 JA now and and so I think that really forced 1505 01:18:01.439 --> 01:18:06.239 medics to mature a lot faster than than they would 1506 01:18:06.279 --> 01:18:09.760 have if they just went to normal refreshures and stuff 1507 01:18:09.840 --> 01:18:11.680 like that. So I hope that answers your question. 1508 01:18:12.119 --> 01:18:14.720 It does. And I actually just because of sort of 1509 01:18:14.760 --> 01:18:17.840 the medical geek in me, you know, like you know, 1510 01:18:17.920 --> 01:18:20.479 like I started trauming them as was Twin IV's bullets, 1511 01:18:20.600 --> 01:18:22.039 which is not a thing anymore. 1512 01:18:22.119 --> 01:18:24.279 Right, No, you kill people now, yeah, exactly. 1513 01:18:24.399 --> 01:18:27.520 So if anybody's listening, you're pushing fresh old blood, fresh 1514 01:18:27.560 --> 01:18:29.800 old blood. If you don't have press old blood, you're 1515 01:18:29.800 --> 01:18:33.479 pushing press old blood. So getting away from crystalloids, getting 1516 01:18:33.479 --> 01:18:34.520 away from all that stuff. 1517 01:18:34.760 --> 01:18:37.560 Yeah, So, like it's amazing to me, how far. 1518 01:18:38.039 --> 01:18:39.800 And I think we saw the same thing in Vietnam, 1519 01:18:40.279 --> 01:18:43.560 you know, and every war really we see this surgeon 1520 01:18:43.680 --> 01:18:44.520 medical knowledge. 1521 01:18:45.960 --> 01:18:48.479 But so, I mean we used we use turn kits 1522 01:18:48.479 --> 01:18:51.359 in the Civil War, and then we stopped using turni 1523 01:18:51.399 --> 01:18:54.159 kits and we used them again and World War two 1524 01:18:54.279 --> 01:18:58.000 and then uh fifty eight albums people killed in Vietnam, 1525 01:18:58.199 --> 01:19:00.760 and we stopped using it like we do it and 1526 01:19:00.800 --> 01:19:03.119 then we stop, right, And I think that's because we 1527 01:19:03.239 --> 01:19:05.680 didn't have a committee of futureable See, we didn't have 1528 01:19:05.880 --> 01:19:09.039 the joint trauma, we didn't have an institutional. Instead, we 1529 01:19:09.239 --> 01:19:11.680 have to hold this knowledge, we have to continue to 1530 01:19:11.800 --> 01:19:15.520 develop this, this training and this capability. 1531 01:19:15.079 --> 01:19:18.000 Right and the old we do have now and the 1532 01:19:18.039 --> 01:19:20.880 old wisdom with with tourniquets, and please correct me if 1533 01:19:20.880 --> 01:19:23.840 I'm wrong. I mean, I know the old uh like 1534 01:19:24.479 --> 01:19:26.800 belief with tourniquits is you put it on and doesn't 1535 01:19:26.800 --> 01:19:30.119 come off, which obviously risk the limb. But then wasn't 1536 01:19:30.159 --> 01:19:33.119 it sort of developed it Actually you can at certain 1537 01:19:33.439 --> 01:19:34.720 increments like release it. 1538 01:19:35.079 --> 01:19:37.119 Yeah, they went through this time period where it was 1539 01:19:37.159 --> 01:19:40.720 called like milking a tourniquit, which would be medics or 1540 01:19:40.760 --> 01:19:45.239 above only for the most part, but you know, there's 1541 01:19:45.239 --> 01:19:47.960 some dangers with that too, because we've got you know, 1542 01:19:48.079 --> 01:19:50.920 compartment syndrome that could be developing, and you've got tossins 1543 01:19:50.960 --> 01:19:53.920 in there. Your blood's going through an aerobic anaerobic metabolism 1544 01:19:54.239 --> 01:19:57.079 the whole time. So anytime you open up a tourniquit 1545 01:19:57.159 --> 01:20:01.560 and you release all that into your normal bloodstream, you're 1546 01:20:01.600 --> 01:20:03.119 going to have an effect. So you have to be 1547 01:20:03.239 --> 01:20:06.279 prepared for that, right treated almost like a trust injury 1548 01:20:06.399 --> 01:20:09.600 or something like that. Yeah, it's but for the most part. 1549 01:20:10.000 --> 01:20:12.399 You know, what we know now is if you do 1550 01:20:12.520 --> 01:20:15.039 put a tourniquet on, as far as saving a life, 1551 01:20:15.079 --> 01:20:17.800 I'm not talking about you know, maybe they might lose 1552 01:20:18.399 --> 01:20:21.840 a little bit of sensory or reflect or whatever. But 1553 01:20:21.920 --> 01:20:23.840 if you put a tournique on, even for a few 1554 01:20:23.920 --> 01:20:27.479 hours today and you get them to a higher standard 1555 01:20:27.520 --> 01:20:30.279 of care. They're uh, they're up and to be pretty good. 1556 01:20:31.119 --> 01:20:34.319 Even regularly as we do surgery, we put turner kids. 1557 01:20:34.319 --> 01:20:36.039 They're a little bit different. They're not your one or 1558 01:20:36.079 --> 01:20:40.319 two inch Winless style tourniquet. They're usually a noumadic wide tournique, 1559 01:20:40.439 --> 01:20:43.920 which is it's less pressure to get occlusion. They'll do 1560 01:20:44.039 --> 01:20:46.640 that when we're just operating on somebody's on their leg 1561 01:20:46.800 --> 01:20:49.079 or something like that. So and they've been known to 1562 01:20:49.159 --> 01:20:52.239 do that for hours. But there is you know, there 1563 01:20:52.319 --> 01:20:55.000 was the thought process back in the day. You know, 1564 01:20:55.039 --> 01:20:57.079 we put a tourniquet on high and tight and you 1565 01:20:57.199 --> 01:20:59.840 kind of move on, and thankfully we've moved away from 1566 01:20:59.880 --> 01:21:01.920 that a little bit. I think it's a good mindset 1567 01:21:02.039 --> 01:21:05.279 to put a tourniquit on when you need one, but 1568 01:21:05.399 --> 01:21:07.279 it needs to be addressed that some folks are getting 1569 01:21:07.279 --> 01:21:09.479 a tourniquit that might not need one, or got a 1570 01:21:09.520 --> 01:21:12.520 TURNI kit in the rights in the wrong situation, and 1571 01:21:12.920 --> 01:21:18.079 it either costs you know, death or disfigurements. So I 1572 01:21:18.159 --> 01:21:19.680 think we could just do better than that now. 1573 01:21:20.119 --> 01:21:23.359 And then with medical technology at the time, it's obviously 1574 01:21:23.399 --> 01:21:26.640 advancing too, because you mentioned like going from you know, 1575 01:21:26.760 --> 01:21:29.119 giving an ivy to uh INTROSTI. 1576 01:21:29.159 --> 01:21:31.439 It's like, so you're putting an ivy, Like, how do 1577 01:21:31.560 --> 01:21:31.800 you know? 1578 01:21:32.520 --> 01:21:35.600 I mean, obviously, very smart people figure this out that 1579 01:21:35.760 --> 01:21:39.000 you can replenish bodily fluids by sticking a needle into 1580 01:21:39.039 --> 01:21:41.600 the bone. But now are there new needles coming out? 1581 01:21:41.680 --> 01:21:43.760 Are there like new vendors and things like. 1582 01:21:43.800 --> 01:21:46.520 That that are yeah, of course, and I deal with 1583 01:21:46.600 --> 01:21:48.720 that now. So I work for stape card Medical now, 1584 01:21:49.319 --> 01:21:54.520 which is a pre hospital traumat device manufacturer. And I 1585 01:21:54.600 --> 01:21:57.359 say that because that didn't exist or I became a 1586 01:21:57.439 --> 01:22:00.560 medic back in the day. Dn't We would take curle x, 1587 01:22:00.600 --> 01:22:02.880 which is for a hospital, we would take a raftids 1588 01:22:02.960 --> 01:22:05.560 for a hospital. We would take these needles which a 1589 01:22:05.680 --> 01:22:10.880 her hospital, and we would use those in a austere environment. 1590 01:22:11.239 --> 01:22:14.840 But now we have companies who are listening to you 1591 01:22:14.880 --> 01:22:18.119 know what these folks out there, austereo medics are saying, 1592 01:22:18.279 --> 01:22:23.039 and now they're making hit and equipment for that application. 1593 01:22:23.319 --> 01:22:25.840 So we had to use a lot of non standard stuff. 1594 01:22:25.960 --> 01:22:30.439 So even with io inner ostiates, we were using innerasius 1595 01:22:30.520 --> 01:22:33.119 in the field or in an environment where we've never 1596 01:22:33.199 --> 01:22:36.039 really been used before. So it's been you know, IO 1597 01:22:36.199 --> 01:22:38.119 has been around for a very long time, but it 1598 01:22:38.279 --> 01:22:40.720 wasn't really used in a pre hospital environment. It was 1599 01:22:40.840 --> 01:22:44.399 used in a hospital for somebody who's you know, got 1600 01:22:45.039 --> 01:22:47.079 doing chemo or they've lost a lot of weight because 1601 01:22:47.119 --> 01:22:49.680 of cancers and stuff like that. So it's kind of 1602 01:22:49.720 --> 01:22:51.800 off label use for a lot of the stuff we're doing. 1603 01:22:51.920 --> 01:22:52.640 It's fascinating. 1604 01:22:52.640 --> 01:22:53.960 I mean, it's just really fascinating. 1605 01:22:54.039 --> 01:22:56.079 And I'm sorry for everybody out there who's bored by this, 1606 01:22:56.199 --> 01:22:58.000 but it's just incredible nerd. 1607 01:22:58.439 --> 01:23:03.119 Yeah, yeah, it's it's like, I mean, I think what's 1608 01:23:03.159 --> 01:23:06.199 so interesting about it is that it's this very like practical, 1609 01:23:06.359 --> 01:23:10.760 pragmatic application of medical science in the field that maybe 1610 01:23:10.800 --> 01:23:12.079 you don't find anywhere else. 1611 01:23:12.600 --> 01:23:15.439 Uh, yeah, it really is. And I think that's the 1612 01:23:15.520 --> 01:23:18.680 testament of our surgeons and our pas and all those 1613 01:23:18.720 --> 01:23:22.039 folks to just continue to push even on the even 1614 01:23:22.079 --> 01:23:24.920 on a deployment. You know, you're just took atategy. You 1615 01:23:25.039 --> 01:23:26.640 drag them to cover and you got a pia standing 1616 01:23:26.720 --> 01:23:29.520 right over your shoulders. That's like, yep, you're doing it right, man, 1617 01:23:29.560 --> 01:23:31.119 you got it. You got like they would mentor you 1618 01:23:31.359 --> 01:23:34.520 while you're doing it, and it's just you know, I 1619 01:23:34.800 --> 01:23:36.119 don't think you see that anywhere else. 1620 01:23:36.159 --> 01:23:38.720 Yeah, man, ranger medics are on point. 1621 01:23:38.840 --> 01:23:41.720 And that's why I say that, like overtrained and underqualified. 1622 01:23:41.840 --> 01:23:44.720 Like there's no job in the civilian world that compares 1623 01:23:44.800 --> 01:23:49.000 to a combat medic, you know, like not not a paramedic, 1624 01:23:49.199 --> 01:23:52.479 not you know, like you're you're somewhere between paramedic and 1625 01:23:52.600 --> 01:23:53.319 trauma surgeon. 1626 01:23:54.000 --> 01:23:55.680 Uh that while being shot at. 1627 01:23:56.000 --> 01:23:59.119 Yeah, but even that, like the things that you are 1628 01:23:59.319 --> 01:24:03.000 capable and allowed to do in the military, there's no 1629 01:24:03.239 --> 01:24:06.840 space in the civilian world to accommodate that. 1630 01:24:08.079 --> 01:24:10.760 Yeah. No, that's absolutely true. And not to take away 1631 01:24:10.800 --> 01:24:14.159 from any other folks jobs out there, but it's not like, 1632 01:24:14.760 --> 01:24:16.279 you know, when I go out there, I'm trying to 1633 01:24:16.359 --> 01:24:17.600 do the job of a PA. 1634 01:24:17.760 --> 01:24:19.880 I'm not trying to do the job of the surgeon. 1635 01:24:19.920 --> 01:24:21.399 I'm just trying to do the job of the range 1636 01:24:21.399 --> 01:24:21.760 of medic. 1637 01:24:21.840 --> 01:24:23.840 And you know, for whatever reason, you know, I can 1638 01:24:23.880 --> 01:24:27.279 shoot and communicate with my rangeable tune, maybe this pier, 1639 01:24:27.399 --> 01:24:29.359 this doc can't. So I need to be able to 1640 01:24:29.399 --> 01:24:32.199 take what they're learning. I got to take their skill 1641 01:24:32.279 --> 01:24:36.399 set and apply that in an environment that that they 1642 01:24:36.479 --> 01:24:38.560 either can't get to or don't have access to. So 1643 01:24:39.399 --> 01:24:41.640 and We've been lucky in the regiment to where it 1644 01:24:41.800 --> 01:24:45.199 never it never came down to you know, a PA 1645 01:24:45.439 --> 01:24:49.319 or doc like looking at us like, you know, if 1646 01:24:49.399 --> 01:24:51.479 I can't be there, you're not doing that. Like I've 1647 01:24:51.640 --> 01:24:55.439 literally been, you know, on the comms talking with Colonel Cootwall. 1648 01:24:55.760 --> 01:24:59.159 I'm sure I'm about to push this medication. Yeah, Roger, 1649 01:24:59.199 --> 01:25:02.960 that go ahead. So we had that access, you know, 1650 01:25:03.079 --> 01:25:07.039 to giant brains in a firefight, literally, so I think 1651 01:25:07.119 --> 01:25:11.199 that's that's definitely a killer for success for the revenants. 1652 01:25:11.479 --> 01:25:13.640 So I just want to ask one more questions if 1653 01:25:13.680 --> 01:25:16.119 you don't mind talking about this, and feel free to 1654 01:25:16.159 --> 01:25:20.479 skip it. Uh, but what was the most challenging scenario 1655 01:25:20.600 --> 01:25:23.760 you had in in a combat situation? 1656 01:25:25.079 --> 01:25:27.720 Oh? Yeah, so that one is it is kind of tough, 1657 01:25:28.479 --> 01:25:30.680 kind of tough to talk about. But when there's a law, 1658 01:25:31.800 --> 01:25:35.560 so it's not like there's a loss and the office over. 1659 01:25:36.520 --> 01:25:39.399 Sometimes there's a law. You've got to keep going right, 1660 01:25:39.520 --> 01:25:43.720 so you've got in you know, when I was a 1661 01:25:43.800 --> 01:25:46.520 brand new range of medic one in five. 1662 01:25:46.399 --> 01:25:49.479 People at a radio, like not everybody even had a radio, 1663 01:25:49.520 --> 01:25:50.880 so you'd have to like whisper or yell. 1664 01:25:51.840 --> 01:25:54.000 But later on in years everybody had a radio, so 1665 01:25:54.479 --> 01:25:57.279 everybody down to the private who's about to kick down 1666 01:25:57.319 --> 01:26:01.359 that door and do justice here? So when you have to, 1667 01:26:01.479 --> 01:26:03.479 you get the call or you're you know, I'm treating 1668 01:26:03.560 --> 01:26:06.079 a casualty or whatever, and somebody's like, hey, what's the status. 1669 01:26:06.720 --> 01:26:07.840 You really have to be. 1670 01:26:09.359 --> 01:26:12.239 Methodical about how you translate that over. 1671 01:26:12.159 --> 01:26:17.000 To comms because it can really destroy the momentum in 1672 01:26:17.399 --> 01:26:23.319 that that battle field aggression very quickly. So I think 1673 01:26:23.359 --> 01:26:26.159 that was probably my biggest challenge, was being able to 1674 01:26:26.279 --> 01:26:31.520 keep everybody moving, and I think standing up to some 1675 01:26:31.640 --> 01:26:34.520 of the Platina sergeants sometimes you have to be like, hey, 1676 01:26:34.600 --> 01:26:37.279 I've got this, you keep going. Your focus is over there. 1677 01:26:37.319 --> 01:26:39.760 And some of them are phenomenal at it, but some 1678 01:26:39.960 --> 01:26:42.479 of them wanted to be you know, they wanted needed 1679 01:26:42.560 --> 01:26:44.600 that intel, and it's like, you don't, like, I'll tell 1680 01:26:44.680 --> 01:26:46.920 you what his status is when you need to know 1681 01:26:47.039 --> 01:26:49.960 what his status is because I know that that's going 1682 01:26:50.039 --> 01:26:51.760 to affect that. So I kind of had to like 1683 01:26:51.840 --> 01:26:53.800 pull that apart and kind of be a prick about it. 1684 01:26:54.680 --> 01:26:58.199 But we had to maintain that focus, and so I 1685 01:26:58.279 --> 01:26:59.760 think that was probably one of the harder things. 1686 01:27:03.239 --> 01:27:05.760 So yeah, you did this deployment to Masul during the 1687 01:27:05.800 --> 01:27:09.319 height of the surge. What what was the next step 1688 01:27:09.359 --> 01:27:09.720 after that? 1689 01:27:12.039 --> 01:27:17.399 Yeah, it was pretty pretty tough depployment. After that it 1690 01:27:17.560 --> 01:27:25.479 was another Afghanistan deployment and this one was Yeah, it 1691 01:27:25.640 --> 01:27:30.760 was Afghanistan employment and that was all of eight I think, 1692 01:27:32.159 --> 01:27:35.479 and nothing really too remarkable from this deployment. I think 1693 01:27:35.520 --> 01:27:39.479 there was at this time the Mortal team out that 1694 01:27:39.600 --> 01:27:41.760 it's like exciting. I think it's kind of cool. But 1695 01:27:41.840 --> 01:27:44.840 the mortaval tune at the time, they used to have 1696 01:27:45.159 --> 01:27:48.000 order to attached to the platoon infections whatever, but they 1697 01:27:48.039 --> 01:27:50.319 actually went out as an organic platoon. 1698 01:27:51.079 --> 01:27:51.319 Really. 1699 01:27:52.279 --> 01:27:54.000 Yeah, they did a hell of a job, man, they did. 1700 01:27:54.199 --> 01:27:56.199 They did a great job. They had a great medic 1701 01:27:57.000 --> 01:28:00.680 at the time, at two medics. They really two two 1702 01:28:00.800 --> 01:28:01.399 great medics. 1703 01:28:01.479 --> 01:28:04.319 And were they going out to do indirect fire or 1704 01:28:04.399 --> 01:28:05.319 going out to act like. 1705 01:28:05.720 --> 01:28:08.600 They were going out as a platein as just a normal. 1706 01:28:08.600 --> 01:28:10.760 Really as like a line with a line team. 1707 01:28:11.600 --> 01:28:12.279 That's pretty cool. 1708 01:28:12.479 --> 01:28:12.680 Yeah. 1709 01:28:13.520 --> 01:28:15.960 Wow, So you know, I know they would do a 1710 01:28:16.000 --> 01:28:18.560 lot of blocking position type stuff for the other platoon, 1711 01:28:18.720 --> 01:28:22.439 but yeah, they go out there. Yeah, so I was so. 1712 01:28:22.560 --> 01:28:23.039 Proud of them. 1713 01:28:23.560 --> 01:28:25.479 I say that because a lot of them were good 1714 01:28:25.479 --> 01:28:28.399 friends of mine, so it's really cool to see where 1715 01:28:28.439 --> 01:28:29.880 they went and how they got there. 1716 01:28:30.680 --> 01:28:32.159 That's pretty cool, man. I didn't know that. 1717 01:28:33.279 --> 01:28:36.920 Yeah, And it was also my first deployment kind of 1718 01:28:37.000 --> 01:28:40.960 working with STYOP and t A. I'd worked with them 1719 01:28:40.960 --> 01:28:46.399 a little bit and then working with Asymmetric Forefare kind 1720 01:28:46.439 --> 01:28:48.880 of working with them a little bit. So it's pretty 1721 01:28:48.880 --> 01:28:50.800 interesting the point where I learned a lot more about 1722 01:28:50.840 --> 01:28:53.880 the bigger picture. Yeah, you know, things are bigger than 1723 01:28:53.920 --> 01:28:57.319 just third grain to get that. Yeah, so I thought 1724 01:28:57.359 --> 01:28:58.119 that was pretty cool. 1725 01:28:58.279 --> 01:29:01.560 Sea going out there and trying to like the patch up, 1726 01:29:01.680 --> 01:29:04.359 what what what range of Batagiony seal teams have just 1727 01:29:04.439 --> 01:29:04.680 been in. 1728 01:29:04.720 --> 01:29:06.960 And yeah, they did a great job too. 1729 01:29:07.199 --> 01:29:10.760 So you know, we had Ranger Rick Merritt, you know, 1730 01:29:10.800 --> 01:29:13.079 I love the man, and he had told us one time, 1731 01:29:13.119 --> 01:29:15.000 I think he actually was in Missoil at the time. 1732 01:29:15.840 --> 01:29:18.479 We would have young ranger privates. You know, we'd come 1733 01:29:18.560 --> 01:29:19.359 in with clear room. 1734 01:29:19.399 --> 01:29:22.479 They're just knocking everything over, just you know, doing TFT 1735 01:29:22.880 --> 01:29:25.880 finding everything. And I'm pretty sure Rick Merrit was like, 1736 01:29:25.960 --> 01:29:28.640 hey man, you know what you're doing right now could 1737 01:29:28.680 --> 01:29:31.479 be generating the next next batch of terrorists. And we're like, 1738 01:29:32.520 --> 01:29:33.840 that kind of makes sense. You know, we came in 1739 01:29:33.880 --> 01:29:37.119 here and just zip this dude up. You know, his 1740 01:29:37.239 --> 01:29:39.600 kid probably just watched it, so like you kind of 1741 01:29:39.680 --> 01:29:41.560 have to be a little bit more. 1742 01:29:43.439 --> 01:29:45.840 Tactful focus, Yeah, a little bit more tactful. 1743 01:29:45.840 --> 01:29:47.800 And I think that's where c A came in behind 1744 01:29:47.840 --> 01:29:50.520 the scenes and really kind of patched that up, and 1745 01:29:50.560 --> 01:29:51.840 I think I think they did a good Yeah. 1746 01:29:52.039 --> 01:29:53.760 So for people who might not know, when we say 1747 01:29:53.800 --> 01:29:56.560 c A, we're talking about civil affairs, which is really 1748 01:29:57.119 --> 01:29:59.239 you know, we always say s F is the hearts 1749 01:29:59.279 --> 01:30:02.760 and minds, but like civil affairs is really hearts in mind. 1750 01:30:03.359 --> 01:30:05.640 Check out our past interviews with Joshua Leez. 1751 01:30:05.800 --> 01:30:05.960 Yeah. 1752 01:30:06.239 --> 01:30:07.680 Yeah, yeah, for sure, guys. 1753 01:30:08.319 --> 01:30:10.920 You know that they I thought they were phenomenal NA 1754 01:30:11.560 --> 01:30:13.479 in my experience with them, And I think there was 1755 01:30:13.560 --> 01:30:17.760 also a difference when I started working or being around 1756 01:30:17.960 --> 01:30:18.720 c A anyway. 1757 01:30:19.119 --> 01:30:22.199 They were former ranger, former former like they. 1758 01:30:22.199 --> 01:30:25.279 Had been in the community, uh, and then kind of 1759 01:30:25.680 --> 01:30:28.119 shifted to c A where now CA has its own 1760 01:30:28.159 --> 01:30:30.880 pipeline and I haven't really worked with them since that's happened. 1761 01:30:31.880 --> 01:30:34.319 So when I worked with their medics, they had all 1762 01:30:34.439 --> 01:30:40.159 been somewhere and so they were just phenomenal medics and 1763 01:30:40.359 --> 01:30:41.960 so I learned quite a bit. 1764 01:30:42.600 --> 01:30:44.399 And one of the things that like the CA medical 1765 01:30:44.600 --> 01:30:48.640 like they are out there like taking in villagers a 1766 01:30:48.720 --> 01:30:53.600 lot of times and treating you know, illnesses and injuries 1767 01:30:53.640 --> 01:30:55.840 that these people have had for a long time. 1768 01:30:55.920 --> 01:30:59.119 Sometimes yeh. Then they were doing stuff you know, I 1769 01:30:59.279 --> 01:31:01.680 just never really been exposed to I've been, you know, 1770 01:31:01.800 --> 01:31:03.479 at that time, I was exposed to like you know, 1771 01:31:03.640 --> 01:31:07.239 crotch rot you know, just your Hey, I just returned 1772 01:31:07.279 --> 01:31:09.000 from a GDUI doct Can you hook me up? 1773 01:31:10.199 --> 01:31:14.199 I need a shock, like yeah, yeah, and family vaccination. 1774 01:31:13.840 --> 01:31:15.920 Yeah, yeah, exactly. 1775 01:31:16.439 --> 01:31:21.319 Uh we're kidding, yeah, right right, but you know we're 1776 01:31:21.359 --> 01:31:22.800 working with animals and. 1777 01:31:24.399 --> 01:31:27.680 Children and babies, and you know, I took every opportunity 1778 01:31:27.760 --> 01:31:30.479 to go out there with the C medics because you know, 1779 01:31:30.760 --> 01:31:35.319 it's a good opportunity to learn to different piece of 1780 01:31:35.399 --> 01:31:36.079 being a medic. 1781 01:31:36.560 --> 01:31:38.520 Yeah, like at that at. 1782 01:31:38.439 --> 01:31:40.479 That time, And I don't know if it's true or not, 1783 01:31:40.720 --> 01:31:45.159 but the Ranger medics did the combat the assault portion 1784 01:31:45.359 --> 01:31:49.000 of Soccam. Where's the s F metics Scott, Like, Oh, 1785 01:31:49.119 --> 01:31:52.000 there's a typhoid outbreak in the village, you know, and 1786 01:31:52.199 --> 01:31:53.560 it's so it's different and this is. 1787 01:31:53.560 --> 01:31:55.439 How you treat the water in your well. 1788 01:31:55.720 --> 01:31:58.680 And you know. Yeah, so they they go on to SFMS, 1789 01:31:59.159 --> 01:32:01.680 which some rangers are able to do as long as 1790 01:32:01.720 --> 01:32:04.039 they go to one of the SMUs and there's a 1791 01:32:04.079 --> 01:32:07.239 way to do that. But anyways, Yeah, so they go 1792 01:32:07.359 --> 01:32:10.840 on and there's like a surgical block and there's just 1793 01:32:11.119 --> 01:32:13.920 a lot of things that you don't generally be in 1794 01:32:14.000 --> 01:32:17.039 the regiment. So I think grander medics could benefit from it, 1795 01:32:17.159 --> 01:32:19.359 for sure, But if you had the opportunity to go 1796 01:32:19.399 --> 01:32:23.479 to jump Master or something else benement, that that probably 1797 01:32:23.520 --> 01:32:25.680 would make sense. And that pissed me off at the 1798 01:32:25.760 --> 01:32:28.319 time because I didn't understand why. I was like, I'll 1799 01:32:28.399 --> 01:32:30.680 reenlist to go to the second part. At the time, 1800 01:32:31.880 --> 01:32:33.600 I liked medicine and I was into it, so I 1801 01:32:33.720 --> 01:32:35.199 was like, hey, let's I want to do this. When 1802 01:32:35.239 --> 01:32:37.239 we do it, do it right, But there's there's literally, 1803 01:32:37.319 --> 01:32:40.600 like I guess, no way to do it. It can't compute. 1804 01:32:40.680 --> 01:32:43.039 So yeah, range of regement. Wasn't that concerned about your 1805 01:32:43.119 --> 01:32:43.880 veterinary skills? 1806 01:32:44.119 --> 01:32:49.720 Yeah no, no, despite you know me wanting to learn that, right, right, So. 1807 01:32:51.439 --> 01:32:54.479 So what was the next step in your career path 1808 01:32:54.600 --> 01:32:57.199 after after that one, so. 1809 01:32:57.840 --> 01:33:00.680 I ended up going to the jam OLT. 1810 01:33:00.840 --> 01:33:03.960 But I was at the five two eight for a 1811 01:33:04.039 --> 01:33:07.199 little while under Steve Cody was at the first Elegent 1812 01:33:08.720 --> 01:33:11.479 he's retired now, which was kind of the dumping ground, 1813 01:33:11.520 --> 01:33:14.159 not dumping ground as like a bad thing, but it's 1814 01:33:14.199 --> 01:33:15.960 kind of where a lot of the soft medics went 1815 01:33:16.479 --> 01:33:18.520 to kind of take a knee or whatever. So I 1816 01:33:18.640 --> 01:33:20.680 was in the five to eight for a little while, 1817 01:33:20.880 --> 01:33:23.960 but it didn't really you know, nothing really notable there. 1818 01:33:24.720 --> 01:33:28.319 But then I assessed them and went to the jam Now, tell. 1819 01:33:28.199 --> 01:33:31.159 Us about that, because I think this is like, as 1820 01:33:31.239 --> 01:33:34.800 far as public perception is, it's a kind of obscure 1821 01:33:34.960 --> 01:33:38.760 element that not too many people know about. Can you 1822 01:33:38.840 --> 01:33:41.840 tell us what that element is and how you assessed 1823 01:33:41.880 --> 01:33:42.119 for it? 1824 01:33:42.800 --> 01:33:46.880 Sure? Yeah, So my previous experience with the organization, all 1825 01:33:46.920 --> 01:33:51.000 I really knew was, you know, their PA surgeon surgical team, 1826 01:33:52.239 --> 01:33:54.800 and every time we would do some kind of missing 1827 01:33:54.880 --> 01:33:57.840 planning brief, you know, I had to include these guys, 1828 01:33:57.880 --> 01:34:00.359 but I didn't really know what they did, and I 1829 01:34:00.520 --> 01:34:03.079 still didn't even when I assessed for the organization, I 1830 01:34:03.119 --> 01:34:05.520 still didn't really know it. I knew they did damage control, 1831 01:34:05.840 --> 01:34:07.920 surgery and damage control of asuscitation. 1832 01:34:08.079 --> 01:34:10.039 But I didn't really understand like who. 1833 01:34:09.960 --> 01:34:12.560 They were, where they picked them from, how they got there, 1834 01:34:12.640 --> 01:34:15.800 how they I didn't know any of that. So but 1835 01:34:15.920 --> 01:34:18.520 I knew people that were there, and I knew the 1836 01:34:18.640 --> 01:34:22.319 unit star major at the time. I love the guy, 1837 01:34:22.319 --> 01:34:24.600 I've known him for so many years. But anyway, so 1838 01:34:25.119 --> 01:34:27.560 I ended up assessing and. 1839 01:34:27.600 --> 01:34:30.600 It was more of like just a psychological type thing. 1840 01:34:30.760 --> 01:34:33.000 And you know, you know, your medicine, it's it's not 1841 01:34:33.199 --> 01:34:35.800 something that you would you know, it's not going to 1842 01:34:35.880 --> 01:34:39.239 be like, you know, a forty mile rock with you know, 1843 01:34:39.399 --> 01:34:41.359 seven days of land now, It's just that's not what 1844 01:34:41.520 --> 01:34:43.960 you do in that organization. So that's not really what's 1845 01:34:44.000 --> 01:34:47.119 expected of you. So it's more of medicine and can 1846 01:34:47.199 --> 01:34:51.159 you handle extremely high stressed situations and be in positions 1847 01:34:51.199 --> 01:34:55.800 where you might be by yourself orchestrating National Mission Force 1848 01:34:55.880 --> 01:35:00.319 type outlet. So that was a huge eye open So 1849 01:35:00.520 --> 01:35:05.119 going into there, you know, just within the first couple 1850 01:35:05.159 --> 01:35:08.279 of weeks, it was just one of the most overwhelming 1851 01:35:08.479 --> 01:35:13.359 anxious experiences probably my whole career because of this secrecy 1852 01:35:13.520 --> 01:35:17.840 and you know, nobody really knows anything at that time, 1853 01:35:17.960 --> 01:35:19.479 so you couldn't just google it at the time. 1854 01:35:19.479 --> 01:35:22.279 I don't know if he still can, but but it 1855 01:35:22.560 --> 01:35:23.119 was pretty good. 1856 01:35:23.119 --> 01:35:25.079 And I think I went in there with the mindset of, 1857 01:35:25.960 --> 01:35:28.760 you know, I never joined the military to be like, hey, 1858 01:35:28.800 --> 01:35:31.399 the military is going to make me better. And I 1859 01:35:31.520 --> 01:35:34.840 joined the military hopefully, hopefully that I have something to 1860 01:35:35.000 --> 01:35:38.039 give to this organization that's like my American thing to do. 1861 01:35:38.720 --> 01:35:42.560 And so, you know, my my brother, my older brother, 1862 01:35:42.640 --> 01:35:44.760 he was a wrestler. You know, he always taught me 1863 01:35:45.039 --> 01:35:48.399 when I was wrestling, like, you know, find the strongest guy, 1864 01:35:48.600 --> 01:35:51.439 find the fastest guy, and he's hevered in you, and 1865 01:35:51.840 --> 01:35:53.319 and wrestle him and he's going to make you a 1866 01:35:53.359 --> 01:35:56.039 better wrestler, which, come to find out, with my brother's 1867 01:35:56.079 --> 01:35:59.039 phenomenal and I stuck. But I went in there with 1868 01:35:59.119 --> 01:36:02.920 that mindset, let me find these surgeons and these CRNAs 1869 01:36:03.000 --> 01:36:06.000 and these docks, and you know, let me just absorb 1870 01:36:06.159 --> 01:36:10.680 everything that they've got to stay and just you know, 1871 01:36:11.199 --> 01:36:13.880 trying to make myself a little bit more capable and 1872 01:36:13.960 --> 01:36:16.560 what can I learn from them? And you know, it 1873 01:36:16.720 --> 01:36:20.720 was just so overwhelming because everything I you know, I 1874 01:36:20.760 --> 01:36:22.399 had talked about when I was at the sixty eight 1875 01:36:22.439 --> 01:36:24.600 whiskey for they said, you know, brain dump all that 1876 01:36:24.680 --> 01:36:26.119 when they got to stock them. And then when I 1877 01:36:26.159 --> 01:36:27.960 got there, I really had to brain dump a lot 1878 01:36:28.000 --> 01:36:29.960 of stuff that I learned in regiment because it just 1879 01:36:30.199 --> 01:36:33.640 wasn't applicable and the medicine was good, but the medicine 1880 01:36:33.720 --> 01:36:36.479 was a band aid. So that's when I really learned 1881 01:36:36.600 --> 01:36:39.880 that any casualty you treat on the battlefield, for the 1882 01:36:39.960 --> 01:36:43.279 most part, you're preparing them for surgery, right, So instead 1883 01:36:43.279 --> 01:36:45.880 of just putting that tourniquit on and forgetting about it now, 1884 01:36:46.039 --> 01:36:48.760 I oh, that's why we're pushing, pushing, press whole blood. 1885 01:36:48.760 --> 01:36:50.359 That's why we're trying to get them high, and that's 1886 01:36:50.359 --> 01:36:52.079 why we're trying to keep them warm because by the 1887 01:36:52.159 --> 01:36:55.760 time they get to a surgeon, they're expected to be warm, high, 1888 01:36:56.039 --> 01:36:58.560 already have an airway so they can get to work. 1889 01:36:59.000 --> 01:37:02.560 So it was a is very drink it through a 1890 01:37:02.640 --> 01:37:07.439 fire hose like, and it's it's very different. You know, 1891 01:37:08.000 --> 01:37:09.960 when we studied for Jump After, it was more of 1892 01:37:10.119 --> 01:37:12.920 like reading this piece of paper and you just remembering 1893 01:37:12.960 --> 01:37:15.960 the nomenclature. But for this, I'm reading white papers and 1894 01:37:16.079 --> 01:37:18.479 I have to make a decision like why would I 1895 01:37:18.600 --> 01:37:21.119 put t X A versus this? Or why would you know? 1896 01:37:21.199 --> 01:37:24.880 You have to actually learn and that's what these doctors 1897 01:37:24.960 --> 01:37:27.720 and that's what they do. They don't just see you know, 1898 01:37:27.800 --> 01:37:30.119 the Range of Medic handbook and it says, well push 1899 01:37:30.199 --> 01:37:32.520 t X A because of this, like they learn why 1900 01:37:32.600 --> 01:37:33.159 you're doing that. 1901 01:37:33.399 --> 01:37:35.359 And I was able to do that in an organization 1902 01:37:35.479 --> 01:37:39.119 and it was can you profoundly change my mind? 1903 01:37:39.159 --> 01:37:39.680 As a medic? 1904 01:37:40.039 --> 01:37:41.520 How do pretty much everything? 1905 01:37:42.000 --> 01:37:44.880 So j MAL is Joint Medical Augmentation Unit and can 1906 01:37:44.960 --> 01:37:48.600 you tell us just for people who don't know, because 1907 01:37:48.640 --> 01:37:52.520 we imagine that they go from the field medic, get 1908 01:37:52.640 --> 01:37:56.279 metavaced and go to a mass unit but that or whatever, 1909 01:37:56.439 --> 01:37:59.520 but can you tell us the role of the j MOUTH. 1910 01:38:00.199 --> 01:38:03.039 Oh yeah, sure, well it's actually the Joint Medical Unit 1911 01:38:03.119 --> 01:38:09.720 now or JMU. So their goal is there's unclassified you know, 1912 01:38:09.880 --> 01:38:14.359 special operations susstation teams, special operations surgical teams and Air 1913 01:38:14.439 --> 01:38:20.760 Force and even forger susstation uh sturgical teams in the Army, 1914 01:38:21.079 --> 01:38:24.000 like there's those already exist. And what they're trying to 1915 01:38:24.119 --> 01:38:27.000 do is get the surgery as close to the casual 1916 01:38:27.079 --> 01:38:29.760 as possible because really we want to get the casualty 1917 01:38:29.880 --> 01:38:33.159 out you know, to that higher excellent of care. But 1918 01:38:33.279 --> 01:38:37.359 sometimes that's not possible, especially with peer one especial missions units. 1919 01:38:37.399 --> 01:38:40.279 They're going in the middle of nowhere and they can't 1920 01:38:40.359 --> 01:38:44.680 just show up at a theater hospital at you know 1921 01:38:45.600 --> 01:38:48.680 zero to zulu with you know, combat casualties. So we 1922 01:38:49.039 --> 01:38:52.000 would get the jam OU medics or sorry, the game 1923 01:38:52.039 --> 01:38:56.399 out teams. Their sr ts would get as close to 1924 01:38:57.800 --> 01:39:00.960 the action is possible, and whatever aircraft are on or 1925 01:39:01.000 --> 01:39:06.479 whatever would now become that r SO casualties would be 1926 01:39:06.560 --> 01:39:09.960 treated by the Ranger medics for the SMU medics whoever 1927 01:39:10.000 --> 01:39:12.399 it is, they would be handed off to them and 1928 01:39:12.800 --> 01:39:15.920 that's pretty much where they would do surgery right there, 1929 01:39:16.039 --> 01:39:19.279 and then they would deliver to a next session. 1930 01:39:18.960 --> 01:39:24.800 An So the Ranger Combat medic if I'm understanding this rightly, 1931 01:39:24.960 --> 01:39:29.600 the Ranger Combat Medic, the Special Forces eighteen Delta, the 1932 01:39:29.960 --> 01:39:33.399 JSAK Assault medic. It's sort of the front line that 1933 01:39:33.600 --> 01:39:35.840 is then delivering the casualty to this unit. 1934 01:39:36.920 --> 01:39:42.119 Yep, yep, pretty much. And where they deliver that to 1935 01:39:42.239 --> 01:39:45.279 the unit is as close as possible, So whether that's 1936 01:39:45.920 --> 01:39:48.680 aircraft that are just you know, loggering around or whatever. 1937 01:39:49.239 --> 01:39:52.159 So it's it's pretty phenomenal to see, you know, it's 1938 01:39:52.199 --> 01:39:56.760 pretty surgery in itself is pretty stressful, you know, even 1939 01:39:56.840 --> 01:40:01.159 in a bright white lights and r seeing these dudes. 1940 01:40:01.319 --> 01:40:04.880 They're just some of the most phenomenal practitioners, I would 1941 01:40:04.920 --> 01:40:07.279 say in the world to just be able to do 1942 01:40:07.279 --> 01:40:10.600 it's a big old dip in under night vision on 1943 01:40:10.760 --> 01:40:13.079 their knees with the lanyard hooked in so that way 1944 01:40:13.159 --> 01:40:16.039 they can kind of lean back and get a little 1945 01:40:16.039 --> 01:40:19.239 bit of a stability, And it's just on. I didn't 1946 01:40:19.239 --> 01:40:20.560 know stuff like that existed and. 1947 01:40:21.079 --> 01:40:25.359 Perform like and not doing the great job that ranger 1948 01:40:25.600 --> 01:40:30.199 SF medics or TIN medics do combat medics, but actually 1949 01:40:30.359 --> 01:40:31.439 doing full surgeries. 1950 01:40:31.479 --> 01:40:35.760 Yeah, brain on the actual surgery on the move. Yes, yep. 1951 01:40:36.119 --> 01:40:38.920 It's damaged control of testation and damage control surgery for 1952 01:40:39.000 --> 01:40:41.720 the most part, which is box and belly. So they're 1953 01:40:41.760 --> 01:40:44.199 not going to go in there and do like bacular surgery. 1954 01:40:43.880 --> 01:40:44.800 On somebody's legs. 1955 01:40:44.880 --> 01:40:46.560 I mean that not really, They're going to go in 1956 01:40:46.640 --> 01:40:49.399 there and clamp off vessels to preserve the life. 1957 01:40:51.000 --> 01:40:55.439 Uh, tell us about what was your first deployment with 1958 01:40:55.560 --> 01:40:56.000 that unit. 1959 01:40:58.079 --> 01:41:05.640 So most for the most part, us NCOs we were 1960 01:41:05.680 --> 01:41:09.359 going through kind of like identity identity crisis, so we 1961 01:41:09.399 --> 01:41:12.079 would do like operations because we knew a lot of 1962 01:41:12.119 --> 01:41:14.960 people in the communities and we would understand how the 1963 01:41:15.000 --> 01:41:17.960 different platforms worked. So I was able to do that 1964 01:41:18.279 --> 01:41:23.159 go over as like operations to really learn that battlefield architecture. 1965 01:41:23.239 --> 01:41:26.119 So there's no benefit in that. So it wasn't as 1966 01:41:26.279 --> 01:41:28.479 you know, effex as of what I would have thought, 1967 01:41:28.600 --> 01:41:32.119 but we're going over there and just handling like the 1968 01:41:32.199 --> 01:41:35.920 inner theater assets. I was able to do that, and 1969 01:41:36.000 --> 01:41:40.159 then I was farmed out to like an Omega deployment, 1970 01:41:40.239 --> 01:41:43.279 which was right back to like the tactical medicine stuff again. 1971 01:41:44.960 --> 01:41:48.319 And so it's and then tell us about that one, 1972 01:41:48.520 --> 01:41:51.680 Oh go ahead. Yeah, So that one was you know, 1973 01:41:51.760 --> 01:41:56.319 I was familiar with the program already. It was I 1974 01:41:56.359 --> 01:41:58.359 think twenty fourteen when I was able to do that, 1975 01:41:58.520 --> 01:42:03.000 but I went out with the Navy at the time, 1976 01:42:03.439 --> 01:42:06.680 and we had a small I know, you guys have 1977 01:42:07.319 --> 01:42:11.640 had my Edwards on a show before, so but yeah, 1978 01:42:11.680 --> 01:42:14.000 we had a small team going out there just enabling 1979 01:42:14.960 --> 01:42:18.000 you know, the assets. So that one there was that 1980 01:42:18.079 --> 01:42:25.439 deployment is probably my most probably uneasy or unnerving deployment 1981 01:42:25.600 --> 01:42:30.680 because you're literally like four or five people middle of nowhere, 1982 01:42:31.039 --> 01:42:35.079 like no asket, like just I really had to know 1983 01:42:35.239 --> 01:42:37.720 my medicine and I needed to know my theater athletes 1984 01:42:37.720 --> 01:42:39.239 at the time, and. 1985 01:42:39.319 --> 01:42:41.159 So it was very very sketch. 1986 01:42:41.800 --> 01:42:46.560 Yeah, battalion, no no, no, no, no, it's it's very 1987 01:42:46.640 --> 01:42:50.079 big boy. Nobody's checking on you. Nobody's you know, even 1988 01:42:50.119 --> 01:42:52.079 in range of Italian for the most part, it come 1989 01:42:52.159 --> 01:42:54.840 back and do PCI, S PCC, you know all that stuff, 1990 01:42:54.880 --> 01:42:56.680 and and you know you're kind of just used to 1991 01:42:56.720 --> 01:43:02.000 that it's automatic, but here it's like nobody checking my dad, 1992 01:43:02.119 --> 01:43:05.039 nobody's checking on the standard load is nobody's you know, 1993 01:43:05.159 --> 01:43:07.000 you just have to use common sense at that time. 1994 01:43:07.079 --> 01:43:12.359 But I mean, I was like the seventh motivle wasn't 1995 01:43:13.279 --> 01:43:15.199 It wasn't really that difficult transition. 1996 01:43:15.359 --> 01:43:18.600 But it's it's pretty good. I was with a good 1997 01:43:18.640 --> 01:43:22.800 team and it was we saw. 1998 01:43:24.119 --> 01:43:24.880 Is a lot more. 1999 01:43:26.399 --> 01:43:28.680 Eventful than I than I probably would have thought. 2000 01:43:29.600 --> 01:43:32.159 How how would you go about in the sort of 2001 01:43:32.239 --> 01:43:36.520 this remote position, how would you go about getting your 2002 01:43:36.560 --> 01:43:41.000 load out? You know, determining what you needed obviously you 2003 01:43:41.119 --> 01:43:42.560 know how to term what you need. But what I 2004 01:43:42.640 --> 01:43:44.640 mean is like if you needed extra stuff that you 2005 01:43:44.680 --> 01:43:46.520 didn't have, Like, how did you go about doing that? 2006 01:43:46.600 --> 01:43:50.640 Could you walk down to like the the not matched 2007 01:43:50.680 --> 01:43:52.760 I could like the field hospital and get it, or 2008 01:43:53.039 --> 01:43:53.640 how did that work? 2009 01:43:53.960 --> 01:43:56.239 Yeah? I could, Yeah, I could do that. I think 2010 01:43:56.279 --> 01:43:58.319 that was one of the magic things of being in 2011 01:43:58.399 --> 01:44:02.199 the organization. It is everybody knows it ready. So I 2012 01:44:02.319 --> 01:44:04.239 could go to the local place and this was intel 2013 01:44:04.279 --> 01:44:06.640 all about it time. I could go in there and 2014 01:44:06.800 --> 01:44:11.479 just nobody was really unaware of the off folks. So 2015 01:44:11.560 --> 01:44:13.159 I go in there and they're just like one of 2016 01:44:13.239 --> 01:44:15.840 you guys, you know, and and they were great about it. 2017 01:44:16.159 --> 01:44:19.359 It was a conventional army unit. I don't remember who 2018 01:44:19.359 --> 01:44:21.000 it was, but I think the one hundred and first 2019 01:44:21.079 --> 01:44:25.199 was in theater at time. I got anything I possibly needed, 2020 01:44:25.239 --> 01:44:28.600 but for my personal load out, I kicked Mike ket 2021 01:44:28.640 --> 01:44:35.760 slur and balls. They had like a I can't remember 2022 01:44:35.840 --> 01:44:38.119 the title of it, but there's a there's a white paper, 2023 01:44:38.159 --> 01:44:41.319 all right, a white paper. They wrote a article about 2024 01:44:41.760 --> 01:44:44.279 how to pack an AID bag and how to pack 2025 01:44:44.359 --> 01:44:46.840 a truck bag and a rock, and I apologize I 2026 01:44:46.920 --> 01:44:51.520 probably should have prepared and wrote it down, but that 2027 01:44:51.760 --> 01:44:54.520 mindset and having my Ketsler in that organization of course 2028 01:44:54.840 --> 01:44:57.399 trained in prefast, but having that mindset, I was able 2029 01:44:57.439 --> 01:45:00.520 to crossload a lot of my medical stuff amongst the 2030 01:45:00.560 --> 01:45:03.840 folks that was with. So everybody had narcoticts everybody because 2031 01:45:03.920 --> 01:45:07.399 that's everybody needs own products, right, So, and everybody had 2032 01:45:07.479 --> 01:45:10.119 a way to start and interer ossius and I taught 2033 01:45:10.159 --> 01:45:13.119 them how to do it. And everybody had all that 2034 01:45:13.279 --> 01:45:16.840 and turner kissed and pressure dressings, all the things they needed. 2035 01:45:17.439 --> 01:45:19.279 And we trained and I trained and I trained and 2036 01:45:19.319 --> 01:45:21.000 I trained them and they were pretty receptive to it. 2037 01:45:21.079 --> 01:45:23.439 They were very good about it. And then I had, 2038 01:45:23.840 --> 01:45:25.880 you know, my truck stuff that I always had in 2039 01:45:25.960 --> 01:45:28.279 the truck, and then whenever we'd enter a house, if 2040 01:45:28.279 --> 01:45:29.279 they had to do that, I would. 2041 01:45:29.479 --> 01:45:31.680 But we didn't do a whole lot of easily. We 2042 01:45:31.840 --> 01:45:34.319 kind of stayed off sped a little bit. 2043 01:45:34.439 --> 01:45:36.920 But I would have you a bag that were dropped 2044 01:45:36.960 --> 01:45:39.960 for that so and then a speedball that you know, 2045 01:45:40.000 --> 01:45:41.760 we dropped from the helicopter if we needed it. 2046 01:45:41.880 --> 01:45:44.439 So I was pretty pretty well equipped for being only 2047 01:45:44.520 --> 01:45:45.479 a small element. 2048 01:45:46.000 --> 01:45:49.199 Yeah, but my aid bag when I was with the regiment, 2049 01:45:49.279 --> 01:45:52.560 which is also compounding off of either another platem medic 2050 01:45:52.760 --> 01:45:55.479 or you know, somebody else who's one of the other 2051 01:45:55.520 --> 01:45:58.399 trum in that's also trained medically somewhat would kind of be. 2052 01:45:58.439 --> 01:46:00.279 The person who chose some of the others up. And 2053 01:46:00.479 --> 01:46:01.840 everybody trained at tea truble c. 2054 01:46:02.000 --> 01:46:04.079 You can crossload really well, and you got a striker, 2055 01:46:04.119 --> 01:46:05.760 you could drop a couple of bags in the area 2056 01:46:05.920 --> 01:46:07.560 got you know, there's a lot of room there. But 2057 01:46:08.079 --> 01:46:09.960 I had to I had to do more of one 2058 01:46:10.039 --> 01:46:14.039 off stuff. So if I, for me, on a small team, 2059 01:46:14.119 --> 01:46:16.479 a mass cow is one person, so I kind of. 2060 01:46:16.520 --> 01:46:17.800 Had to gear for that. 2061 01:46:18.079 --> 01:46:20.520 So I wouldn't need twenty pirnicates because that's more than 2062 01:46:20.560 --> 01:46:22.800 what I could do anyway, So I would prep more 2063 01:46:22.960 --> 01:46:26.359 for you know, if I had to do boxer belly 2064 01:46:26.520 --> 01:46:30.760 or something like that on just one person. Uh. 2065 01:46:31.479 --> 01:46:33.960 Any memorable operations from that deployment. 2066 01:46:35.079 --> 01:46:38.000 Yeah, So there was a couple of times where we 2067 01:46:38.079 --> 01:46:42.159 got pretty pretty big ticks or troops and contact and 2068 01:46:42.319 --> 01:46:46.239 one we actually lost, uh an American advisor on that 2069 01:46:46.359 --> 01:46:48.720 one there, and it was a it was a mass cow. 2070 01:46:49.600 --> 01:46:53.039 So the Afghans that we're working with, I think I 2071 01:46:53.119 --> 01:46:55.520 had six or seven casualties at the time. So I 2072 01:46:55.680 --> 01:46:59.000 was working with them, and uh, they were what you 2073 01:46:59.000 --> 01:47:03.159 would think just grazed and they were like limping, Like 2074 01:47:04.239 --> 01:47:05.880 I remember the first time I got shot, you know, 2075 01:47:06.000 --> 01:47:08.000 So I was kind of irritated with them because they 2076 01:47:08.079 --> 01:47:08.840 didn't really. 2077 01:47:10.560 --> 01:47:12.319 They would get hit and just laid down and. 2078 01:47:14.199 --> 01:47:18.039 Something like trained from the get go, Like you get shot, 2079 01:47:18.159 --> 01:47:21.039 you keep going even in training. Yeah, until they assessed 2080 01:47:21.079 --> 01:47:22.000 them with casualty. 2081 01:47:22.439 --> 01:47:24.680 They would come see me in the aide station later 2082 01:47:24.760 --> 01:47:26.079 on they're, yeah, I think I got hit and you 2083 01:47:26.199 --> 01:47:28.680 look and they're like uniforms torn up, and I'm like, 2084 01:47:29.039 --> 01:47:31.840 you're an idiot. Yes you got hit. You know it 2085 01:47:32.000 --> 01:47:34.640 does happen, but but no, we lost an American on 2086 01:47:34.760 --> 01:47:39.199 that one, and that that was a pretty brutal hit 2087 01:47:39.239 --> 01:47:43.880 at the time. But we worked through it and you know, 2088 01:47:44.039 --> 01:47:44.840 continued mission. 2089 01:47:46.079 --> 01:47:49.279 That's got to be rough man going a mass cow situation, 2090 01:47:49.680 --> 01:47:53.600 and like, I think it's a very interesting like psychological 2091 01:47:53.720 --> 01:47:57.520 dynamic that you mentioned earlier, that all of this happens, 2092 01:47:58.039 --> 01:47:59.960 but you've got to keep going, like the mission doesn't 2093 01:48:00.119 --> 01:48:02.239 just stop. Fight doesn't just stop. 2094 01:48:03.840 --> 01:48:06.479 Yeah, So that's kind of working through that and making 2095 01:48:06.560 --> 01:48:10.159 sure that you know, everybody else is maintaining that focus 2096 01:48:11.319 --> 01:48:13.680 will also getting irritated with some of the partner Nation 2097 01:48:13.840 --> 01:48:16.319 that I didn't really you know, at the time, there's 2098 01:48:16.359 --> 01:48:20.119 so much you know, green on blue whatever, you know, 2099 01:48:20.279 --> 01:48:23.119 I don't. I didn't. I wasn't comfortable working with some 2100 01:48:23.319 --> 01:48:27.760 of the partner Nation, to be honest. So it was 2101 01:48:28.600 --> 01:48:31.680 another added thing that I had to worry about, right. 2102 01:48:32.239 --> 01:48:35.399 So it's just it's just stressful one of the things. 2103 01:48:35.439 --> 01:48:37.359 And I didn't I didn't trust to just hand it 2104 01:48:37.479 --> 01:48:41.399 casually off the people I didn't know, so I ended 2105 01:48:41.479 --> 01:48:44.319 up carrying the litter and handing off to the helicopter 2106 01:48:44.479 --> 01:48:48.720 that came in. It's just made it a different experience 2107 01:48:48.760 --> 01:48:52.039 to where, you know, you know, back in the Ranger regiment, 2108 01:48:52.079 --> 01:48:54.039 you're treating somebody, You get a couple of range of privates, 2109 01:48:54.079 --> 01:48:54.880 they're carrying stuff. 2110 01:48:54.880 --> 01:48:56.359 You hand off to one sixtieth guy. 2111 01:48:56.439 --> 01:48:57.079 You know who it is. 2112 01:48:57.119 --> 01:48:58.159 I've worked with him for years. 2113 01:48:58.199 --> 01:49:00.600 You hand off. I know he's good to go. Now 2114 01:49:00.640 --> 01:49:02.920 you're working with people you've never seen before, putting on 2115 01:49:03.000 --> 01:49:07.039 an aircraft we vaguely know who's on it. It's just 2116 01:49:07.960 --> 01:49:11.039 just not comfortable. Yeah. 2117 01:49:11.279 --> 01:49:13.159 And one of the things you mentioned earlier was. 2118 01:49:14.920 --> 01:49:18.800 How sometimes a platoon sergeant would stop and overlook and 2119 01:49:19.199 --> 01:49:22.520 want to know the status. But sometimes with indage, an 2120 01:49:22.720 --> 01:49:26.319 entire like an entire group of guys would stop, just stop, 2121 01:49:26.520 --> 01:49:29.560 just stop, just to see if their buddy was flying. 2122 01:49:30.399 --> 01:49:32.239 We had, you know, I had a couple of folks 2123 01:49:32.680 --> 01:49:34.640 on the ground. It helped out with the crowd control, 2124 01:49:34.720 --> 01:49:36.399 so they were able to divert really well. So I 2125 01:49:36.439 --> 01:49:37.960 didn't That was just one last thing that I had 2126 01:49:37.960 --> 01:49:38.880 to worry about. Yeah. 2127 01:49:40.560 --> 01:49:44.119 So, I mean, Mike, I remember, and I'd love to 2128 01:49:44.159 --> 01:49:46.439 ask you this. I mean, I remember. You may have 2129 01:49:46.560 --> 01:49:48.640 mentioned to me that you got spun up for a 2130 01:49:48.760 --> 01:49:51.439 counter terrorism deployment during your time at the unit. 2131 01:49:52.479 --> 01:49:53.239 Yeah, so I did. 2132 01:49:53.399 --> 01:49:55.520 It was the whole Benghazi thing there. 2133 01:49:55.720 --> 01:50:00.239 So a part of our mission was also goin to 2134 01:50:00.359 --> 01:50:03.399 be prepared for their surgical teams. And I you know, 2135 01:50:03.680 --> 01:50:06.159 being in the unit's not only about surgery. It's also 2136 01:50:06.199 --> 01:50:09.159 about that inner theater operations, getting folks where they need 2137 01:50:09.239 --> 01:50:11.760 to go back to Germany or wherever. But yeah, the 2138 01:50:11.840 --> 01:50:15.239 Benghazi you know that that went off and I reported 2139 01:50:15.279 --> 01:50:18.439 to work, and you know, because it was a page 2140 01:50:18.520 --> 01:50:21.199 or phone call or whatever, and usually you know, we 2141 01:50:21.279 --> 01:50:24.880 would train and you know, I wasn't sure if it 2142 01:50:24.960 --> 01:50:26.680 was like a real thing or not. But oh yeah, 2143 01:50:26.680 --> 01:50:28.479 I was on the Sea seven team headed to taking 2144 01:50:28.800 --> 01:50:34.720 Italy pretty quick, so that was uh my first time 2145 01:50:34.920 --> 01:50:37.600 doing kind of that kind of blowout for real. So 2146 01:50:37.840 --> 01:50:40.840 it was also kind of a nervous thing because you know, 2147 01:50:40.920 --> 01:50:42.760 we didn't really know a whole lot of what was 2148 01:50:42.840 --> 01:50:45.119 going on. I'm sure you've seen the movie Thirteen Hours. 2149 01:50:45.199 --> 01:50:48.159 This is far removed from like the movie. Yeah, so 2150 01:50:48.199 --> 01:50:49.960 I don't want to say like it, you know, it 2151 01:50:50.119 --> 01:50:51.760 is what it is. The movie is pretty active, by 2152 01:50:51.760 --> 01:50:54.119 the way, but at the time we didn't know any 2153 01:50:54.199 --> 01:50:56.560 of that was really going on. The intel we got, 2154 01:50:56.640 --> 01:50:59.600 you know, we're already starting to develop, you know, targets 2155 01:50:59.640 --> 01:51:02.520 and stuff like that. So that was just a a 2156 01:51:02.600 --> 01:51:04.920 different experience. When you take off an aircraft and you 2157 01:51:04.960 --> 01:51:06.359 have no crew where you're landed. 2158 01:51:07.119 --> 01:51:07.760 That's crazy. 2159 01:51:08.760 --> 01:51:12.039 Yeah. Yeah, and you got enough, you know, you've got 2160 01:51:12.520 --> 01:51:15.880 palette load of equipment that could literally go anywhere in 2161 01:51:15.920 --> 01:51:16.199 the world. 2162 01:51:16.439 --> 01:51:19.920 Yeah, you're kind of prepared for it. But it's it's 2163 01:51:19.960 --> 01:51:20.199 kind of. 2164 01:51:20.279 --> 01:51:24.920 But it's great that capability exists, right, Oh absolutely, And 2165 01:51:25.079 --> 01:51:25.319 at the. 2166 01:51:25.359 --> 01:51:27.880 Time, did you because you're you're seeing with right now 2167 01:51:27.920 --> 01:51:33.800 you're in this like legit Tier one unit. Did you 2168 01:51:33.920 --> 01:51:36.439 not know where you were going because the pilots didn't 2169 01:51:36.439 --> 01:51:38.199 brief you were because the pilots didn't know it, like 2170 01:51:38.279 --> 01:51:42.239 everything was so influxed. No, Like decisions were being made 2171 01:51:42.239 --> 01:51:43.239 while you guys were in the air. 2172 01:51:44.000 --> 01:51:46.399 Yeah, decisions were definitely made while we're in the air. 2173 01:51:46.439 --> 01:51:49.840 Right as we got closer, we knew where we were going. Yeah, 2174 01:51:49.840 --> 01:51:53.159 I mean we could start developing a plan, but at 2175 01:51:53.199 --> 01:51:55.600 the time, there wasn't you know, we just we didn't 2176 01:51:55.680 --> 01:51:58.199 know much. I think that the news and the media 2177 01:51:58.279 --> 01:52:01.600 at the time was saying, uh, you know there was 2178 01:52:01.760 --> 01:52:04.880 uprising because of a political cartoon, because of the video 2179 01:52:05.079 --> 01:52:07.880 it was on. Then Yeah, it was on the anniversary, 2180 01:52:08.039 --> 01:52:13.520 right after September eleventh, So that was bad intelligence, that was. 2181 01:52:13.560 --> 01:52:18.319 Not Yeah, and so when you've got to singinale, because 2182 01:52:18.520 --> 01:52:20.680 you know, everybody in the military has been subject to 2183 01:52:20.720 --> 01:52:24.039 the hurry up and wait uh you know syndrome, what 2184 01:52:24.279 --> 01:52:25.840 was it like when you guys got to singanella? 2185 01:52:26.720 --> 01:52:29.039 Yeah, so you know, we're going on thousand miles an hour. 2186 01:52:29.119 --> 01:52:32.720 We do what we do. We've we've perfected the art 2187 01:52:32.840 --> 01:52:35.600 of setting up, tear down, set up tear down. So 2188 01:52:35.680 --> 01:52:38.680 we got there, we set up ready to go no 2189 01:52:38.760 --> 01:52:40.800 matter what we need to do. I started making local 2190 01:52:41.079 --> 01:52:44.720 connections with hospitals if we needed to bring somebody back 2191 01:52:44.880 --> 01:52:47.239 or we needed to move an o R over there. 2192 01:52:47.319 --> 01:52:50.640 We started making you know, starting to meet the other 2193 01:52:50.800 --> 01:52:52.960 assets that we had in country to kind of figure 2194 01:52:52.960 --> 01:52:55.079 out where we could push people around if you had to. 2195 01:52:55.880 --> 01:52:58.199 So the first couple of days was like two hours 2196 01:52:58.239 --> 01:53:01.039 of sleep ranger school upon us, just trying to figure 2197 01:53:01.079 --> 01:53:05.239 out who's doing what we're doing. If you know this 2198 01:53:05.520 --> 01:53:08.439 organization watches and does this, how would we support that. 2199 01:53:09.560 --> 01:53:11.800 So it was it was a bunch of ants making 2200 01:53:11.880 --> 01:53:14.760 an ant hill for the first couple of days. Yeah. 2201 01:53:15.560 --> 01:53:17.920 Now, when you know, one of the things we see 2202 01:53:17.960 --> 01:53:21.319 sometimes with Special Operations units is you know, like there 2203 01:53:21.359 --> 01:53:26.760 are conventional theater you know, owners or or owners of 2204 01:53:26.840 --> 01:53:30.520 a certain area and they may not always like what 2205 01:53:30.720 --> 01:53:32.840 the Special Operations Units are doing there. And there can 2206 01:53:32.880 --> 01:53:34.560 be a little bit of a rub when. 2207 01:53:34.439 --> 01:53:37.359 You guys fly into place like Cinella. And obviously you 2208 01:53:38.000 --> 01:53:38.960 have not. 2209 01:53:39.000 --> 01:53:42.319 Saying anything bad about doctors or surgeons at any given 2210 01:53:42.399 --> 01:53:46.000 military base, but fifty percent of doctors were at the 2211 01:53:46.039 --> 01:53:48.680 bottom of the bottom of their class, right like fifty 2212 01:53:48.680 --> 01:53:52.000 percent of them. So so you never know. So you 2213 01:53:52.159 --> 01:53:56.479 never know what you are getting in any one location. 2214 01:53:56.720 --> 01:53:59.000 And when you guys fly in, do you have the 2215 01:53:59.079 --> 01:54:03.239 authority to sort of commandeer a surgical room and say, 2216 01:54:03.640 --> 01:54:04.720 anybody coming from. 2217 01:54:04.680 --> 01:54:05.680 This is ours? 2218 01:54:07.039 --> 01:54:09.479 Yeah, So I don't know about the authority to do it. 2219 01:54:09.680 --> 01:54:16.840 But we go in there and lack of like I 2220 01:54:16.920 --> 01:54:19.319 want to, you know, tell you guys that we go 2221 01:54:19.359 --> 01:54:21.159 in there and kick down doors and hold a clock 2222 01:54:21.239 --> 01:54:23.399 to somebody's head, but like, you know, man, like, we 2223 01:54:23.520 --> 01:54:25.960 walk in there and it's like a naval unit and 2224 01:54:26.039 --> 01:54:28.079 they're like, we know why you're here, you know. So 2225 01:54:28.159 --> 01:54:31.159 I'm in plain clothes and I just walked in there. 2226 01:54:31.199 --> 01:54:34.119 They're like, you know, we know why you're here. What 2227 01:54:34.239 --> 01:54:36.960 do you guys need? And and so I don't know 2228 01:54:37.000 --> 01:54:40.720 if that was just that specific naval unit that was 2229 01:54:41.560 --> 01:54:44.920 helping us out, but I really didn't have any issues 2230 01:54:44.960 --> 01:54:48.600 with that whatsoever. They said, whatever you guys need, it's yours. 2231 01:54:50.119 --> 01:54:52.479 Pretty good, that's fantastic, Yeah, Because I didn't know if maybe, 2232 01:54:52.560 --> 01:54:55.039 like you know, some chief of medicine to be like, ah, 2233 01:54:55.119 --> 01:54:57.640 this is our hospital and you guys blah blah blah. 2234 01:54:58.079 --> 01:54:59.359 Oh I'm sure it's happened. 2235 01:54:59.600 --> 01:55:02.159 Yeah, I've I've been fortunate to where I was able 2236 01:55:02.199 --> 01:55:05.479 to sweet talk just about anybody to get whatever I needed. Yeah. 2237 01:55:06.720 --> 01:55:10.800 Uh so what what came I I mean I just 2238 01:55:10.960 --> 01:55:14.279 following the chronology, I mean what came after that whole 2239 01:55:14.800 --> 01:55:15.880 Bengazi situation. 2240 01:55:16.720 --> 01:55:19.199 A whole lot of nothing. They sat there, did nothing. 2241 01:55:19.359 --> 01:55:24.680 So they're trying not to get too political, but we 2242 01:55:25.199 --> 01:55:29.960 had I personally think that we had targets, we had 2243 01:55:29.960 --> 01:55:31.000 a show of force. 2244 01:55:30.800 --> 01:55:33.479 That we're we'reing ready and able to do and we 2245 01:55:33.600 --> 01:55:33.840 did not. 2246 01:55:34.119 --> 01:55:40.720 So it sucks. Yeah, it sucks. Like of course, no 2247 01:55:40.920 --> 01:55:44.119 more American lives were jeopardy put in jeopardy or harmed or. 2248 01:55:44.079 --> 01:55:47.880 Anything, so that's a good thing. But I think we 2249 01:55:48.039 --> 01:55:49.520 could have done more. 2250 01:55:50.279 --> 01:55:54.039 Yeah, and it you know, it's not just any special 2251 01:55:54.079 --> 01:55:58.079 operations in that theater, special operations in other areas. And 2252 01:55:58.720 --> 01:56:01.520 I can't remember the unit in Chiganella, the airborne unit 2253 01:56:01.760 --> 01:56:04.359 which is supposed to be there for a lot of 2254 01:56:04.439 --> 01:56:05.920 the inextremist stuff. 2255 01:56:07.279 --> 01:56:08.000 We had Charlie. 2256 01:56:08.119 --> 01:56:09.880 We had Charlie one ten from s DEF. 2257 01:56:10.640 --> 01:56:13.880 They were in West stutgard I leave, so they were 2258 01:56:13.920 --> 01:56:16.439 actually they met us in Italy pretty quick yeah, so 2259 01:56:16.560 --> 01:56:19.479 they had assets there. We had some folks from the 2260 01:56:19.520 --> 01:56:21.840 five two eight, which luckily I did a little time there, 2261 01:56:21.920 --> 01:56:26.159 so I integrated them really quickly. But as far as 2262 01:56:26.199 --> 01:56:29.439 like conventional infantry, I don't think they had a whole lot. 2263 01:56:29.600 --> 01:56:32.439 They had like a marine rifle platoon that might have 2264 01:56:32.520 --> 01:56:36.439 been in somewhere in Northern Africa, but I don't We 2265 01:56:36.520 --> 01:56:39.720 didn't have a whole lot where we were at. Uh, 2266 01:56:40.000 --> 01:56:41.840 they have the one seventy third, but I don't think 2267 01:56:41.880 --> 01:56:43.000 they were They were not there. 2268 01:56:43.359 --> 01:56:44.159 Yeah, Oh they weren't. 2269 01:56:44.239 --> 01:56:48.279 They weren't in Italy, they were not at our location. 2270 01:56:48.439 --> 01:56:52.159 They were not your Okay, so what what? 2271 01:56:52.439 --> 01:56:52.560 Uh? 2272 01:56:53.239 --> 01:56:55.439 What came after that? What was the next thing for you? 2273 01:56:59.319 --> 01:56:59.520 More? 2274 01:56:59.640 --> 01:56:59.920 Ops? 2275 01:57:00.159 --> 01:57:00.880 Deployments? 2276 01:57:00.960 --> 01:57:04.439 More? Most of my time in the unit was training 2277 01:57:04.680 --> 01:57:08.880 and training other people. So I did a lot of 2278 01:57:10.960 --> 01:57:15.159 training the newer teams that would attest and get selected, 2279 01:57:15.279 --> 01:57:18.680 and we eventually developed a pretty pretty good selection tatics, 2280 01:57:18.760 --> 01:57:26.039 but helped make it so we can test them physically, mentally, 2281 01:57:26.800 --> 01:57:29.159 emotionally in some cases to ensure that they were the 2282 01:57:29.279 --> 01:57:32.239 right fit for the organizations that were going out. It's 2283 01:57:32.239 --> 01:57:34.279 because they were a good surgeon doesn't mean that they're 2284 01:57:34.840 --> 01:57:38.920 fit to be in that remote environment. So I worked 2285 01:57:38.960 --> 01:57:42.159 a lot with that and just running the day to 2286 01:57:42.279 --> 01:57:44.920 day operations at the jumps and and all that stuff. 2287 01:57:44.920 --> 01:57:47.439 So that's what I was saying. We went through kind 2288 01:57:47.479 --> 01:57:51.439 of like a change of where we did a lot 2289 01:57:51.479 --> 01:57:54.039 of ops and then we did tactical medicine stuff where 2290 01:57:54.119 --> 01:57:58.399 we worked with the surgical resuspension teams a lot, and 2291 01:57:58.520 --> 01:58:01.960 then we moved into like and doing other administrative stuff. 2292 01:58:02.079 --> 01:58:05.039 So I also did like counterpoort reparation for a lot 2293 01:58:05.079 --> 01:58:10.319 of NBC like live agent training and you know, all 2294 01:58:10.399 --> 01:58:14.039 that kind of stuff to the very broad kind of stuff. 2295 01:58:14.079 --> 01:58:17.840 But I think as a medic and organizational wise, it 2296 01:58:18.000 --> 01:58:23.159 was just like every single day you're learning something. Yeah, 2297 01:58:23.239 --> 01:58:26.000 that's like also it's. 2298 01:58:25.880 --> 01:58:28.319 Like a whole other field of medicine when you get 2299 01:58:28.359 --> 01:58:31.800 into the NBC stuff, but like assessing like someone who's 2300 01:58:31.840 --> 01:58:34.840 exposed to sarian or like somebody who's exposed to like 2301 01:58:34.960 --> 01:58:36.560 a radiological device. 2302 01:58:37.439 --> 01:58:42.520 Sure, yeah, I know, it is very different. And we 2303 01:58:42.600 --> 01:58:46.279 were able to go up through up to Canada soduced 2304 01:58:46.319 --> 01:58:48.520 in live agent training and stuff because we don't really 2305 01:58:48.560 --> 01:58:50.920 do that in the US, but it was it was 2306 01:58:51.159 --> 01:58:54.279 definitely a big eye opener at just learning you know, 2307 01:58:54.359 --> 01:58:57.119 the LD fifty or at least lethal dose of a 2308 01:58:57.239 --> 01:59:00.199 chemical that will kill of the population and given aunt 2309 01:59:00.199 --> 01:59:03.760 of time, like you know, a grain of rice size 2310 01:59:03.960 --> 01:59:07.560 of this chemical will kill somebody. It's just it's kind 2311 01:59:07.560 --> 01:59:10.840 of crazy. But it also opens your eyes to fought 2312 01:59:10.920 --> 01:59:13.279 movie fakes, which me and my son do all the time, like, 2313 01:59:13.359 --> 01:59:16.039 a ha, you know that's not true. So when you 2314 01:59:16.119 --> 01:59:18.159 watch like The Rock and he's like, you're gonna stab 2315 01:59:18.239 --> 01:59:20.800 this and it's not how that's not how that works. 2316 01:59:20.840 --> 01:59:24.479 So yeah, yeah, it's like this is VF gas and 2317 01:59:24.479 --> 01:59:27.199 it melts your faith. Right, No, that's not what it does. 2318 01:59:27.319 --> 01:59:30.960 So it's kind of cool to learn all that kind 2319 01:59:30.960 --> 01:59:33.479 of stuff and also work with the different tiers and 2320 01:59:34.000 --> 01:59:35.239 you know, what would they do because you. 2321 01:59:35.239 --> 01:59:37.800 Know, Korea is kind of a thing and we didn't 2322 01:59:37.800 --> 01:59:38.159 really know. 2323 01:59:39.000 --> 01:59:41.520 NBC was kind of ramping up a little bit, so 2324 01:59:42.520 --> 01:59:44.720 it was it was an eye opener because it's not sexy, 2325 01:59:45.119 --> 01:59:47.159 you know, as a medic where like you know, trauma, 2326 01:59:47.279 --> 01:59:49.640 you're doing this. You know, I'm you know, doing chest 2327 01:59:49.720 --> 01:59:51.920 tubes and I'm criking and you're doing stuff and now 2328 01:59:51.960 --> 01:59:55.960 it's like, you know, you're doing atrophine and Pisa, stigmine 2329 01:59:56.199 --> 01:59:58.439 and you know value, it's just. 2330 01:59:58.600 --> 02:00:01.359 Like not you know, it's not cool, but it's it's 2331 02:00:01.800 --> 02:00:02.800 stuff you just gotta move. 2332 02:00:03.279 --> 02:00:04.960 Did you ever did you ever find it? 2333 02:00:06.039 --> 02:00:07.960 Because like some of the things that I learned about, 2334 02:00:08.159 --> 02:00:12.359 like the NBC stuff and then sometimes how easy it 2335 02:00:12.520 --> 02:00:14.960 is or liked, were you ever just terrified like wow, 2336 02:00:15.079 --> 02:00:18.079 like how have we not been hit by this stuff? 2337 02:00:18.159 --> 02:00:20.760 Well? Now, actually, the smarter you get on it, the 2338 02:00:20.840 --> 02:00:22.840 more you realize that it's not as easy to do 2339 02:00:22.960 --> 02:00:26.680 as you think. Really, yeah, so you know, it's not 2340 02:00:26.800 --> 02:00:28.600 as easy to just you know, VX gas. We're going 2341 02:00:28.680 --> 02:00:30.680 to throw it in a missile. You know, most of 2342 02:00:30.800 --> 02:00:33.079 a lot of these chemicals they boil at room temperature, 2343 02:00:33.239 --> 02:00:35.199 so it doesn't become you know, it's it's not as 2344 02:00:35.239 --> 02:00:39.800 easily used as weaponized, if you will. So it's you know, 2345 02:00:39.880 --> 02:00:42.039 it's once I get the more you learn, the more 2346 02:00:42.079 --> 02:00:46.560 you realize things just aren't It's very hard that movie. 2347 02:00:46.920 --> 02:00:49.520 It could still hurt you. It still hurt you, of course, 2348 02:00:49.720 --> 02:00:54.479 but I was more concerned in biological agents that that 2349 02:00:54.680 --> 02:00:56.600 still freaks me out. You know, we see what happened 2350 02:00:56.640 --> 02:01:01.399 with COVID. COVID could very easily be biological agent, right, 2351 02:01:01.640 --> 02:01:05.000 But when we're talking about nerve agents and stuff like that, it's. 2352 02:01:04.920 --> 02:01:07.960 We're talking about like dirty, dirty bombs, and even like 2353 02:01:08.119 --> 02:01:10.800 e MPs, like they're not quite as effective as like 2354 02:01:10.880 --> 02:01:12.239 the movies would have us believe. 2355 02:01:12.720 --> 02:01:16.239 No, they're really not. So, you know, I think that 2356 02:01:17.279 --> 02:01:19.640 in modern warfare we just don't see it that often. 2357 02:01:20.239 --> 02:01:23.840 I think the only time that I know of in 2358 02:01:23.920 --> 02:01:26.439 the soft community that we had to deal with that 2359 02:01:26.760 --> 02:01:30.720 was folks that treated children who had walked through some 2360 02:01:30.840 --> 02:01:34.479 of the poppy fields in Afghanistan where they were exposed 2361 02:01:34.520 --> 02:01:37.960 to some of the chemicals that they'd used that were 2362 02:01:38.159 --> 02:01:42.680 very similar to the nerve agent poisonous organophosphate poisoning, and 2363 02:01:42.960 --> 02:01:45.720 so kind of identifying that and treating it almost the 2364 02:01:45.800 --> 02:01:48.960 same way. So that happened. And then there was chlorine 2365 02:01:49.880 --> 02:01:52.039 that you know, I think happened in Iraq a few 2366 02:01:52.079 --> 02:01:54.920 times where they tried to be like chlorine bombs. Yeah, 2367 02:01:55.520 --> 02:01:59.319 did that too, Yeah, that's pretty dirty. Yeah. 2368 02:02:00.359 --> 02:02:05.520 In the invasion of Iraq with the whole Islam Ulstaria group, 2369 02:02:05.800 --> 02:02:09.079 if I recall correctly, Northern Iraq suspected to have a 2370 02:02:09.159 --> 02:02:11.399 chemical weapons factory. They dealt with it there too. 2371 02:02:12.680 --> 02:02:16.840 Yeah, it's you know, it's just not something that I remember. 2372 02:02:16.880 --> 02:02:18.960 On my first deployment, we had like the you had 2373 02:02:19.000 --> 02:02:21.039 your pro mask on your side and you appointed that 2374 02:02:21.520 --> 02:02:23.800 for a pillow, and then it eventually became like I 2375 02:02:23.840 --> 02:02:27.640 don't even know where the pro mask is. Yeah. Yeah, Oh, 2376 02:02:27.720 --> 02:02:31.680 and also I did learn a lot so with relaxed 2377 02:02:31.720 --> 02:02:34.000 groening standards. Yet you can get a steal on a 2378 02:02:34.039 --> 02:02:37.680 pro mask and they have a papper positive air pressure 2379 02:02:37.840 --> 02:02:41.239 pump that helps push positive air into your math. So 2380 02:02:41.800 --> 02:02:43.359 all these people that are saying you can't have a 2381 02:02:43.399 --> 02:02:46.000 beer to the math because it's just that's not sure. 2382 02:02:46.319 --> 02:02:49.720 I think that's just an excuse to to make it 2383 02:02:49.880 --> 02:02:53.199 so you can't I can't have a beer and it 2384 02:02:53.319 --> 02:02:54.119 excluded or. 2385 02:02:54.199 --> 02:02:57.119 Seek brothers right military service. 2386 02:02:57.479 --> 02:03:02.239 So yeah, yeah, yeah, because I remember like obviously in 2387 02:03:02.279 --> 02:03:04.119 the Army it's like pro mass, but in the Navy 2388 02:03:04.479 --> 02:03:06.800 because everybody has to be a firefighter or be on 2389 02:03:06.920 --> 02:03:09.680 damage control on a ship. Like it's like that's why 2390 02:03:09.800 --> 02:03:12.000 we don't have beards. You can't have beards. You can 2391 02:03:12.119 --> 02:03:14.239 have three day growth because you won't get a seal 2392 02:03:14.319 --> 02:03:16.600 on your you know mask, And it's like I don't 2393 02:03:16.600 --> 02:03:17.199 think that's right. 2394 02:03:17.479 --> 02:03:20.800 So Mike, you get you get promoted to sergeant major, 2395 02:03:21.840 --> 02:03:23.399 You're you're up at the top. 2396 02:03:24.960 --> 02:03:26.399 Yeah, do we miss something? 2397 02:03:26.600 --> 02:03:28.479 Well yeah he did kind of. 2398 02:03:28.600 --> 02:03:32.159 So I ended up taking a taking a knee. 2399 02:03:33.119 --> 02:03:35.800 So it was time to leave all the you know 2400 02:03:35.920 --> 02:03:38.760 that stuff, and I talked to Dennis Smith, who was 2401 02:03:39.399 --> 02:03:43.439 former first sergeant three seventy five back in the day, 2402 02:03:43.680 --> 02:03:46.239 and he was the ar TV everyone ready Training Brigade 2403 02:03:46.319 --> 02:03:50.439 started the major and so I was able to get 2404 02:03:50.479 --> 02:03:52.560 back to Fort Penning and I was gonna be one 2405 02:03:52.600 --> 02:03:56.079 of the Airborne School first sergeants or whatever. She just 2406 02:03:56.159 --> 02:03:57.760 taking a knee kind of stop the point for a 2407 02:03:57.800 --> 02:04:02.000 little bit, focused on my mental else But I ended 2408 02:04:02.039 --> 02:04:06.119 up going back and being like the s penior medic 2409 02:04:06.239 --> 02:04:08.720 for the airbone inder train to day and then ended 2410 02:04:08.800 --> 02:04:10.840 up they put me in the position to be the 2411 02:04:11.000 --> 02:04:13.119 HP first target. So I did that for a little 2412 02:04:13.159 --> 02:04:16.720 while working at Ranger School, which believe or not, was 2413 02:04:16.760 --> 02:04:20.960 one of my best assignments. More so for you know, 2414 02:04:21.079 --> 02:04:24.319 my mental health for sure, but the predictability and being 2415 02:04:24.439 --> 02:04:28.279 part of something that's not medical, because you know, it's 2416 02:04:28.319 --> 02:04:30.399 something I talked about a little bit, but like you know, 2417 02:04:30.520 --> 02:04:32.960 throughout my career, with all the loss and all the 2418 02:04:33.039 --> 02:04:34.920 things I saw, it was kind of nice to step 2419 02:04:34.960 --> 02:04:37.560 away from medicine for a little while. Yeah, just kind 2420 02:04:37.600 --> 02:04:39.760 of take that break and just kind of you know, 2421 02:04:40.640 --> 02:04:44.880 button and some people they're die hard into medicine. I'm 2422 02:04:45.119 --> 02:04:47.520 I don't feel like I am. I was die hard 2423 02:04:47.600 --> 02:04:49.760 into being a ranger medic. I was die hard into 2424 02:04:49.800 --> 02:04:51.880 being a medic, but I wasn't really die hard into 2425 02:04:51.960 --> 02:04:55.720 medicine in itself. But stepping aside, but still being with 2426 02:04:55.840 --> 02:04:59.720 the infantry and still being with maneuver, I actually enjoyed it. 2427 02:05:00.039 --> 02:05:04.960 Uh was that like to work with young soldiers going 2428 02:05:05.000 --> 02:05:06.199 through this arduous training? 2429 02:05:07.319 --> 02:05:10.159 Yeah, it was. It was very different, and you know, 2430 02:05:10.239 --> 02:05:13.000 I took it. I took it head on, being a 2431 02:05:13.239 --> 02:05:18.319 very different assignment and and man, I don't know, just 2432 02:05:18.399 --> 02:05:21.399 seeing these young kids come through, and you know, obviously, 2433 02:05:21.760 --> 02:05:22.840 you know, my uniform at the. 2434 02:05:22.880 --> 02:05:26.680 Time was you know, pretty uh, you know, I had 2435 02:05:26.720 --> 02:05:27.880 a lot of stuff on there or whatever. 2436 02:05:28.000 --> 02:05:30.000 But so they would see that and they instantly would 2437 02:05:30.399 --> 02:05:33.439 asking questions or this or that, and you're a medic, 2438 02:05:33.479 --> 02:05:35.319 why you know, why are you in this position or 2439 02:05:35.439 --> 02:05:36.079 that or whatever? 2440 02:05:36.199 --> 02:05:39.079 And just being able to mentor those folks. 2441 02:05:39.159 --> 02:05:42.119 I thought was really good to see, you know, how 2442 02:05:42.239 --> 02:05:44.920 stupid a ranger student can be, but how remarkable they 2443 02:05:44.960 --> 02:05:46.239 can be and how funny they could be. 2444 02:05:47.239 --> 02:05:47.479 It was. 2445 02:05:47.600 --> 02:05:50.800 It was a great, great opportunity and working with a 2446 02:05:50.880 --> 02:05:53.520 lot of the r I a lot of the senior 2447 02:05:53.640 --> 02:05:57.880 tax folks, and it was the It was a phenomenal 2448 02:05:58.000 --> 02:05:58.680 part of my career. 2449 02:05:59.319 --> 02:06:03.600 I'm curious had Ranger School changed much between the time 2450 02:06:03.720 --> 02:06:05.479 you went through and the time you became cadre. 2451 02:06:06.680 --> 02:06:10.039 Uh kind of so one of my biggest discontent And 2452 02:06:10.119 --> 02:06:12.119 of course I went in there with you know, I 2453 02:06:12.199 --> 02:06:16.479 had the full soft mindset of you know, ranger school 2454 02:06:16.520 --> 02:06:18.840 is still archaic and Vietnam, and it pissed me off, 2455 02:06:19.079 --> 02:06:20.600 honestly because it wasn't different. 2456 02:06:20.960 --> 02:06:23.880 So look at all these lessons learned, and I think 2457 02:06:23.960 --> 02:06:26.840 being a medic kind of like it. 2458 02:06:27.800 --> 02:06:29.239 I don't know. It kind of set me up with 2459 02:06:29.279 --> 02:06:32.159 failure in that because we always take the things we 2460 02:06:32.279 --> 02:06:35.399 learned from combat and make sure that we incorporate that 2461 02:06:35.479 --> 02:06:38.039 into our training and make sure that we report our 2462 02:06:38.119 --> 02:06:40.359 casualties back to the Joint Trauma and it gets back 2463 02:06:40.399 --> 02:06:43.680 to Committee of Tutor we'll see, which then feeds back 2464 02:06:43.760 --> 02:06:46.680 into STOCKERM and feeds back into the medical represser, and 2465 02:06:46.760 --> 02:06:50.039 medics are better tomorrow because of what we went through yesterday. 2466 02:06:50.520 --> 02:06:53.680 And at Rangers School, we had this amazing opportunity of 2467 02:06:53.800 --> 02:06:55.600 what do we learned in Iraq, what do we've learned 2468 02:06:55.600 --> 02:06:58.479 in Afghanistan to at least apply it to the training. 2469 02:06:58.560 --> 02:07:00.920 And then some folks are like, wow, the leadership school, 2470 02:07:00.960 --> 02:07:04.239 and I kind of disagree with that. Ranger School when 2471 02:07:04.279 --> 02:07:07.159 it began was supposed to prepare people for this guerrilla 2472 02:07:07.239 --> 02:07:09.479 warfare type environment that they were going to be in, 2473 02:07:10.000 --> 02:07:12.319 and so it's not necessarily leadership school. I know it 2474 02:07:12.399 --> 02:07:15.039 uses leadership as a means to evaluate, but what if 2475 02:07:15.079 --> 02:07:17.039 somebody went to the Ranger School and didn't even maybe 2476 02:07:17.079 --> 02:07:19.680 you didn't pass, Did you go back to your unit? 2477 02:07:19.880 --> 02:07:22.439 Was something that's going to save somebody's life, right, whether 2478 02:07:22.520 --> 02:07:25.680 that's survivability or lethality, Like, are you going to go back. 2479 02:07:25.560 --> 02:07:27.439 And it's going to do something? Probably not? 2480 02:07:28.039 --> 02:07:30.000 So I think that was probably one of my biggest 2481 02:07:30.039 --> 02:07:33.920 discontents was they didn't take the lessons learned from actual 2482 02:07:34.039 --> 02:07:37.479 combat and find a way to incorporate that into Ranger School. 2483 02:07:38.479 --> 02:07:40.359 And I don't know where they are now maybe they 2484 02:07:40.439 --> 02:07:41.159 have now, but. 2485 02:07:42.680 --> 02:07:45.640 Unfortunately, and do you mean when when you say that, 2486 02:07:46.600 --> 02:07:50.680 do you mean in terms of the way we actually 2487 02:07:50.920 --> 02:07:53.800 tactically do combat on the ground or treatments on the ground, 2488 02:07:53.960 --> 02:07:56.640 or in the leadership aspect of the way were reporting 2489 02:07:56.880 --> 02:08:00.359 these things back and the way like the the whole 2490 02:08:00.399 --> 02:08:03.359 command and communication structure work. 2491 02:08:03.439 --> 02:08:06.119 Yeah, pretty much, pretty much all of it. So you know, 2492 02:08:06.239 --> 02:08:10.159 even if something as small is making a day, you know, 2493 02:08:10.319 --> 02:08:14.279 a power point on you know, this is your truck annex, 2494 02:08:14.359 --> 02:08:15.880 but it's not in the back of the ranger handbook. 2495 02:08:16.159 --> 02:08:19.399 It's on a power point you know. Or everybody thinks 2496 02:08:19.479 --> 02:08:21.239 rangers you must be able to shoot good. We don't 2497 02:08:21.239 --> 02:08:23.039 shoot a single live around at ranger school. You know, 2498 02:08:23.079 --> 02:08:25.359 there might be a good opportunity to be able to 2499 02:08:25.439 --> 02:08:27.199 incorporate that in there, and folks that you can't do 2500 02:08:27.279 --> 02:08:29.119 it while they're doing at RASP as you can. So 2501 02:08:29.800 --> 02:08:33.479 I think showing that small unit tactics and lead and 2502 02:08:34.199 --> 02:08:37.399 teaching people the small unit tactics stuff that comes directly 2503 02:08:37.479 --> 02:08:38.199 from the regiment. 2504 02:08:38.680 --> 02:08:40.479 Maybe some of the SME stuff doesn't apply. 2505 02:08:40.680 --> 02:08:43.079 Maybe it does, but you can't tell me a ranger 2506 02:08:43.159 --> 02:08:45.640 a rifle putoon in the eighty second can't benefit from 2507 02:08:46.039 --> 02:08:48.279 kniper theory. Where do I even put a sniper? Where 2508 02:08:48.319 --> 02:08:50.199 do I put you know, where should I put these folks? 2509 02:08:50.199 --> 02:08:52.720 Where should I do this? Or I have to report 2510 02:08:52.840 --> 02:08:55.039 up higher? I have to do this. You know, there's 2511 02:08:55.119 --> 02:08:57.159 so much more that they have to do that. I 2512 02:08:57.319 --> 02:09:00.680 wish somebody that graduated from Ranger School goes straight to 2513 02:09:01.319 --> 02:09:05.199 you know, that position and enable that element so much 2514 02:09:05.279 --> 02:09:08.039 better than they do now. And the reason why I 2515 02:09:08.239 --> 02:09:12.479 know it's kind of outdated is and this used to 2516 02:09:12.520 --> 02:09:14.439 piss me out too because and a lot of things 2517 02:09:14.479 --> 02:09:18.039 fits more. But like, why isn't it like Marstock thing 2518 02:09:18.199 --> 02:09:21.760 Ranger School. You know, before you can get a Marstock position, 2519 02:09:21.840 --> 02:09:23.920 you need to go to this school. Why isn't you 2520 02:09:24.000 --> 02:09:26.600 know FF saying, before you can be an eighteen bravo 2521 02:09:26.680 --> 02:09:28.560 on my team, you're going to this school. You know, 2522 02:09:28.640 --> 02:09:30.960 they have this opportunity to where it can be a 2523 02:09:31.159 --> 02:09:34.159 great school to teach people things they can't learn anywhere else. 2524 02:09:35.119 --> 02:09:38.000 But unfortunately, everything you learn at Ranger School you can 2525 02:09:38.039 --> 02:09:40.439 get from the Ranger handle Like it's you know, it's 2526 02:09:40.479 --> 02:09:44.560 not teaching you something you couldn't do yesterday, right versus 2527 02:09:44.640 --> 02:09:46.800 like Airborne School I couldn't jump out of the plane 2528 02:09:46.800 --> 02:09:49.800 three weeks, so now I can. So I just think 2529 02:09:49.840 --> 02:09:51.600 they probably could have done a little bit better at that, 2530 02:09:51.800 --> 02:09:54.359 maybe even adopt like the Arslick model where it's more 2531 02:09:54.399 --> 02:09:56.720 of like your team and you're you know, you're still 2532 02:09:57.279 --> 02:09:59.840 using some of the capability from the team you came from, 2533 02:10:00.319 --> 02:10:03.279 and kind of using that is a way to enhance 2534 02:10:03.399 --> 02:10:03.800 the course. 2535 02:10:04.600 --> 02:10:08.000 And I think there's still measures and ways that they could. Uh, 2536 02:10:08.119 --> 02:10:10.159 you know, we're not creating course just to make it hard, 2537 02:10:10.239 --> 02:10:11.159 just to make people fail. 2538 02:10:11.279 --> 02:10:15.399 That's good. Yeah, as my son says, like when they 2539 02:10:15.520 --> 02:10:18.039 when they when they built the you know, the the 2540 02:10:18.199 --> 02:10:20.079 Dark Vader when it when it built the day thing. 2541 02:10:20.319 --> 02:10:22.560 Of course it created a lot of jobs, but like 2542 02:10:23.199 --> 02:10:25.119 it's the Death Star. So like we don't want to 2543 02:10:25.199 --> 02:10:27.640 create somethings really hard just for people to fail. I 2544 02:10:27.680 --> 02:10:29.840 would rather they kind of take a look at Rangers 2545 02:10:29.840 --> 02:10:32.680 School and create something that, like I said, even if 2546 02:10:32.680 --> 02:10:34.760 you failed on the last day, you go back to 2547 02:10:34.800 --> 02:10:39.159 your opportunity, You're you're still value added. Do you think 2548 02:10:39.319 --> 02:10:40.439 just think they miss the much. 2549 02:10:40.560 --> 02:10:43.159 Do you think the part of that is because and 2550 02:10:43.399 --> 02:10:45.720 and again I am not well, first off, I'm not 2551 02:10:45.760 --> 02:10:49.760 putting down conventional forces, because conventional forces we're out there 2552 02:10:49.800 --> 02:10:53.279 hooking and jabbing at these little ship fobs and and 2553 02:10:53.520 --> 02:10:56.039 cops out in the middle of nowhere. Like they they 2554 02:10:56.159 --> 02:10:59.520 saw plenty of action. But you know, when you talk 2555 02:10:59.680 --> 02:11:03.840 about out sort of bringing these lessons into range of battalion, 2556 02:11:04.239 --> 02:11:07.600 not not or from range of battalion. Not All these instructions, 2557 02:11:07.640 --> 02:11:10.119 in fact, not a lot of the instructors, at least 2558 02:11:10.119 --> 02:11:14.319 when I went, were from battalion, right, they were tabbed 2559 02:11:14.399 --> 02:11:19.119 rangers from you know, different units, so they might not 2560 02:11:19.359 --> 02:11:22.640 have that regiment experience coming in to bring in do 2561 02:11:22.720 --> 02:11:25.319 you think because it's a part of trade doc and 2562 02:11:25.479 --> 02:11:27.399 open to yeah, anybody. 2563 02:11:27.039 --> 02:11:28.840 Yeah, I think it is. I think it is for sure. 2564 02:11:28.960 --> 02:11:31.239 And something that I tried to brain child while I 2565 02:11:31.319 --> 02:11:34.359 was there is I went to the SF committee and 2566 02:11:34.479 --> 02:11:37.000 because we were talking about females coming through Granger Sports, 2567 02:11:37.439 --> 02:11:40.319 so you know, we wanted to cover you know, SF, 2568 02:11:40.399 --> 02:11:42.680 they had already had females and psyop and PA. 2569 02:11:42.920 --> 02:11:44.359 So how did they run their selections? 2570 02:11:44.399 --> 02:11:47.359 What do they do? You know, how did they infrastructure wide? Whatever? 2571 02:11:47.439 --> 02:11:50.680 So while we're there though, talking some of their sergeants, 2572 02:11:50.760 --> 02:11:53.359 Major was like, you know, what if we treated Rangers 2573 02:11:53.399 --> 02:11:55.760 fool as kind of your swift time where one of 2574 02:11:55.800 --> 02:11:58.880 their instructors would come here do their time. They still 2575 02:11:58.920 --> 02:12:01.560 wear their green hat, they go through ridecap, there's still 2576 02:12:01.560 --> 02:12:04.039 a certified Ranger instructor. But you know, and then when 2577 02:12:04.039 --> 02:12:06.479 you have s F folks come through, you can maybe 2578 02:12:06.560 --> 02:12:08.359 kind of come up with something that's a little bit 2579 02:12:08.439 --> 02:12:12.760 more applicable to the Ranger mission set. So I think 2580 02:12:12.800 --> 02:12:14.800 there's opportunities where they could have done that, and I 2581 02:12:14.880 --> 02:12:17.399 think the Ranger Regiment they could almost do the same 2582 02:12:17.479 --> 02:12:20.000 thing where hey, you know, you did your squad leader time, 2583 02:12:20.119 --> 02:12:22.239 you're not really ready to be a platoon sergant yet 2584 02:12:22.800 --> 02:12:25.600 it's rader at Ptpenning ortmore. You know, have them come 2585 02:12:25.640 --> 02:12:28.279 over on loan because a lot of folks, you don't 2586 02:12:28.279 --> 02:12:30.079 want to leave the community because once you leave, it's 2587 02:12:30.119 --> 02:12:32.560 the community who knows what's going to happen to you. 2588 02:12:32.960 --> 02:12:34.359 So I think a lot of people are afraid of that. 2589 02:12:34.640 --> 02:12:35.720 But people do deserve to. 2590 02:12:35.760 --> 02:12:37.760 Take a knee. So if they could come over and 2591 02:12:37.880 --> 02:12:41.399 have be like a guest instructor or still do right, 2592 02:12:41.479 --> 02:12:44.119 apps still do all that stuff, but you're like on 2593 02:12:44.359 --> 02:12:48.039 loan or with duty at Ranger school, right. You know, 2594 02:12:48.079 --> 02:12:51.640 I think Ranger Regiment produces the most ranger qualified NCOs 2595 02:12:52.079 --> 02:12:54.720 Earth send the most and can receive the most, so 2596 02:12:55.079 --> 02:12:56.800 I think that they should be a little bit more 2597 02:12:56.840 --> 02:12:57.439 involved with it. 2598 02:12:58.039 --> 02:13:01.920 Yeah, I think there's a there's a difference between I 2599 02:13:02.000 --> 02:13:04.800 think what you and I would like Ranger School to 2600 02:13:04.880 --> 02:13:07.600 be and what it actually is. Like we have this 2601 02:13:07.720 --> 02:13:11.079 idea in our mind that it should be a commando's school, right, Yeah. 2602 02:13:11.439 --> 02:13:14.159 Yeah, I think that's what most people, like civilians think 2603 02:13:14.199 --> 02:13:14.399 it is. 2604 02:13:14.560 --> 02:13:17.600 But but really, as you point out, it's a tradock school, 2605 02:13:18.159 --> 02:13:25.000 and that most of the students are Cherry lieutenant right, IOBC. 2606 02:13:26.520 --> 02:13:29.479 And privates out of Ranger Battalion, right, Private and six 2607 02:13:29.640 --> 02:13:31.560 is from that's. 2608 02:13:31.439 --> 02:13:36.279 The minority, Yeah, a minority of n CEOs from the 2609 02:13:36.439 --> 02:13:42.079 conventional force, right, And and so Ranger School, like I was, 2610 02:13:42.279 --> 02:13:44.039 I was definitely if you talk to me back in 2611 02:13:44.119 --> 02:13:47.159 the day, I'd be bitter about it. But nowadays, like 2612 02:13:47.279 --> 02:13:50.000 I can look back on it and see they did 2613 02:13:50.039 --> 02:13:53.039 a very good job at training us on the basics. 2614 02:13:52.880 --> 02:13:54.800 Right, and it's a basic leadership. 2615 02:13:54.880 --> 02:13:57.640 And to this day, I could not even if I 2616 02:13:57.720 --> 02:13:59.920 wanted to, I could not forget how to set it 2617 02:14:00.079 --> 02:14:03.119 an ambush, right, because they do it so so many 2618 02:14:03.239 --> 02:14:08.119 damn times. So it has value. But I don't think 2619 02:14:08.199 --> 02:14:11.399 you're wrong either, Mike, and pointing out that it could 2620 02:14:11.439 --> 02:14:14.600 have even more value with some modifications. 2621 02:14:15.840 --> 02:14:18.640 Yeah, I think so. It's just you know, i'd be 2622 02:14:18.680 --> 02:14:20.840 dumb to think in the you know, the year twenty fifty, 2623 02:14:21.039 --> 02:14:22.960 like it's still going to be the same, I hope not. 2624 02:14:23.159 --> 02:14:25.279 Like there has to be a point where, you know, 2625 02:14:25.560 --> 02:14:29.920 we're towards. Yeah, it's something a little bit more applicable. 2626 02:14:30.039 --> 02:14:33.640 I mean, we're seeing drones in Russia and yeah, we're 2627 02:14:33.680 --> 02:14:37.399 seeing in Ukraine. Like start moving towards a little bit 2628 02:14:37.479 --> 02:14:40.159 more you know, modern theory when it comes to things, 2629 02:14:40.199 --> 02:14:42.239 and it doesn't have to be you know, it doesn't 2630 02:14:42.279 --> 02:14:46.359 have to be a six month long tactical course. That's 2631 02:14:46.359 --> 02:14:48.760 not what you're trying to do. But I just think 2632 02:14:48.840 --> 02:14:49.319 that they could. 2633 02:14:50.039 --> 02:14:52.359 Well, it may have been a six month tactical course 2634 02:14:52.399 --> 02:14:53.039 for some of us. 2635 02:14:53.039 --> 02:14:55.600 For some people, right right, Well, And that makes the 2636 02:14:55.680 --> 02:14:57.640 question did you go through the last hard course or 2637 02:14:57.680 --> 02:15:00.680 the first easy course, because everybody is w last hard 2638 02:15:00.760 --> 02:15:01.199 one for sure? 2639 02:15:01.600 --> 02:15:06.960 Did you have the bayonet assault course? Yes, his soul 2640 02:15:07.079 --> 02:15:09.159 is pure, his soul is pure. 2641 02:15:09.720 --> 02:15:12.239 But I think that you pointed out Jack that uh 2642 02:15:12.720 --> 02:15:15.960 that really Ranger School, like enlisted people can go to 2643 02:15:16.079 --> 02:15:19.199 Ranger School because there aren't enough officers to fill it out. 2644 02:15:19.359 --> 02:15:22.880 But it really is an IOBC. It's an inventtry officer 2645 02:15:23.000 --> 02:15:27.000 basic course school, you know, to teach these college kids, 2646 02:15:28.640 --> 02:15:31.680 you know, sort of your small unit and larger unit tactics. 2647 02:15:32.840 --> 02:15:34.920 You get them kind of up to up to speed. 2648 02:15:35.600 --> 02:15:38.439 And it's funny to me though, because, like you mentioned, 2649 02:15:38.479 --> 02:15:40.560 coming from battalion and it's like when one of these 2650 02:15:40.600 --> 02:15:42.479 officers getting ready to fail, when they have their first 2651 02:15:42.560 --> 02:15:44.640 no go and they're looking at their second like who 2652 02:15:44.720 --> 02:15:47.239 do they who do they make their you know, their 2653 02:15:47.279 --> 02:15:50.640 platoona sergeant and their squad leaders. It's like the ranger privates. 2654 02:15:50.680 --> 02:15:52.079 It's like, hey, where am I? 2655 02:15:52.319 --> 02:15:52.359 Like? 2656 02:15:52.399 --> 02:15:55.119 Where are my regiment guys? All right, you guys, get 2657 02:15:55.159 --> 02:15:56.359 him to get him a pass? 2658 02:15:57.159 --> 02:16:01.199 Yeah, you know, Mike, Mike. Else about then picking up 2659 02:16:01.239 --> 02:16:04.680 sergeant major and kind of finishing out your military career. 2660 02:16:05.880 --> 02:16:09.119 Yeah, so I was picked up pretty early on. I think, 2661 02:16:10.479 --> 02:16:11.760 you know, when I was selected. I've been in the 2662 02:16:11.880 --> 02:16:14.840 Army fourteen fifteen years or whatever. So I actually didn't 2663 02:16:14.840 --> 02:16:17.479 think i'd get picked up. I had been in soft 2664 02:16:18.520 --> 02:16:21.880 majority of my career and I had you know, the 2665 02:16:22.119 --> 02:16:25.159 classified n ce rs or whatever, so I didn't think 2666 02:16:25.199 --> 02:16:28.640 that they'd even really read a lot of them, you know, 2667 02:16:28.760 --> 02:16:31.279 no degree, and I didn't have a lot of diversity 2668 02:16:31.520 --> 02:16:33.760 when it comes to assignments, which is all things that they. 2669 02:16:33.719 --> 02:16:35.559 Wanted to have, and they say, you're not going to 2670 02:16:35.600 --> 02:16:36.399 get picked up if you don't. 2671 02:16:36.559 --> 02:16:38.959 I got picked up right away, so it was kind 2672 02:16:39.000 --> 02:16:41.120 of a shocker. And then I ended up doing like 2673 02:16:41.239 --> 02:16:47.840 the the online academy, which was it is what it is. 2674 02:16:47.959 --> 02:16:52.479 It was, you know, two years of night Yeah, it's what. 2675 02:16:52.639 --> 02:16:54.799 It sucks too because you're doing the academy, but you're 2676 02:16:54.799 --> 02:16:56.799 also doing the job of stor major. Because as une 2677 02:16:56.799 --> 02:16:58.879 as you know, I got selected, they were like, oh, 2678 02:16:59.079 --> 02:17:01.799 you're coming here, going to do that. So I ended 2679 02:17:01.879 --> 02:17:06.879 up going to Fort Bragg. It was the clinical chief 2680 02:17:06.920 --> 02:17:10.280 Clinical start major of WOMAX. So you know, you're jumping 2681 02:17:10.399 --> 02:17:12.760 right into Hey, you've been a soft medic all this time, 2682 02:17:12.879 --> 02:17:15.239 and then you were at Ranger School and then now 2683 02:17:15.280 --> 02:17:18.040 you're in charge of clinical medicine and one of the 2684 02:17:18.680 --> 02:17:23.920 largest Army hospitals. It's like I couldn't be any more 2685 02:17:24.040 --> 02:17:27.120 far removed. But I actually enjoyed it quite a bit 2686 02:17:27.280 --> 02:17:32.520 because it allowed me to well plus id Rypop, which 2687 02:17:32.559 --> 02:17:35.399 hopefully you can get him on the show. So he 2688 02:17:35.600 --> 02:17:37.879 was the stargant major of Womack at the time, so 2689 02:17:38.000 --> 02:17:40.760 we just immediately just hit it off. But there's a 2690 02:17:40.799 --> 02:17:43.959 good opportunity to see with the conventional medics and the 2691 02:17:44.120 --> 02:17:48.959 conventional medical teams and organizations. 2692 02:17:48.520 --> 02:17:50.799 How they function and how they did things. And it 2693 02:17:50.879 --> 02:17:52.239 was actually kind of an eye opener. 2694 02:17:53.040 --> 02:17:55.079 So I was pretty blessed to be able to do that, 2695 02:17:55.360 --> 02:17:59.239 but it came with many headaches because my thing was 2696 02:17:59.440 --> 02:18:03.360 is a medic treating my my guys. That's my number 2697 02:18:03.360 --> 02:18:05.040 one job, take care of my guys. And so when 2698 02:18:05.040 --> 02:18:08.000 I got put in this position, my soldiers were no 2699 02:18:08.200 --> 02:18:12.159 longer really my job. My delivery of health care to 2700 02:18:12.239 --> 02:18:17.239 these beneficiaries, you know, these wives, these husbands, these children 2701 02:18:17.399 --> 02:18:18.879 like that became my priority. 2702 02:18:19.319 --> 02:18:22.399 And so I kind of found myself getting a little 2703 02:18:22.399 --> 02:18:23.760 bit more aggressive. 2704 02:18:23.319 --> 02:18:28.680 And reventful towards the service and the service member because 2705 02:18:28.719 --> 02:18:36.000 the delivery of health care was vastly substandard in my opinion. 2706 02:18:36.280 --> 02:18:39.559 Yeah, can I just want to ask you a question 2707 02:18:39.719 --> 02:18:43.760 because you in the army in particular, you wear your 2708 02:18:43.840 --> 02:18:46.280 d D two fourteen on your chest right or you know, 2709 02:18:46.760 --> 02:18:52.120 like we love badges, we love you know, and you 2710 02:18:52.280 --> 02:18:59.079 will go into a conventional army hospital does does does 2711 02:18:59.159 --> 02:19:05.479 You're like you, well, what does your like chest help 2712 02:19:05.600 --> 02:19:09.440 you like flair or whatever? Yeah, that's the what I 2713 02:19:09.559 --> 02:19:10.000 was looking for. 2714 02:19:11.799 --> 02:19:14.479 Yeah, not really. I think most of the people in 2715 02:19:14.760 --> 02:19:18.000 in medcom, which is you know, Army Medical Command or whatever, 2716 02:19:18.079 --> 02:19:20.319 I don't think many of them even knew. 2717 02:19:20.159 --> 02:19:24.159 What half of that stuff was. Yeah, I masters don't 2718 02:19:24.200 --> 02:19:26.840 Winning free Fall, c NB all that, like, they didn't know. 2719 02:19:27.040 --> 02:19:30.440 But I think you know, where it did make a 2720 02:19:30.479 --> 02:19:32.959 difference was I would actually do shifts in the er, 2721 02:19:33.440 --> 02:19:34.680 and I would go up to the o R and 2722 02:19:35.040 --> 02:19:37.200 actually scrub in for surgeries once in a while. So 2723 02:19:37.760 --> 02:19:40.200 when I go in there and I got the stuff, cope, 2724 02:19:41.040 --> 02:19:43.399 and I'm a frog star major at the time, and 2725 02:19:43.479 --> 02:19:47.440 you got the eighties second you know TV two and 2726 02:19:47.520 --> 02:19:49.840 there with his wife and he's just like whoa, Like, 2727 02:19:50.319 --> 02:19:53.360 who's this guy? You know, It's just I think that 2728 02:19:53.600 --> 02:19:55.879 was that was kind of the highlight. I think they 2729 02:19:55.920 --> 02:19:58.000 were like, yeah, you know, my families get to go 2730 02:19:58.159 --> 02:20:00.600 they're taking care of them. Yeah, I think that's kind 2731 02:20:00.600 --> 02:20:01.399 of what we was all about. 2732 02:20:01.639 --> 02:20:06.520 Do we have questions for Mike, Yeah, we have a couple. 2733 02:20:06.760 --> 02:20:11.760 I have one here for you, m Corbin asks. Over 2734 02:20:11.799 --> 02:20:14.639 the last twenty some years, the Rangers have seen it all. 2735 02:20:15.079 --> 02:20:17.680 Correct me if I'm wrong, But during that time, the 2736 02:20:17.799 --> 02:20:20.639 Ranger Special Operations combat medics have led the way in 2737 02:20:20.719 --> 02:20:25.479 innovating and pioneering advanced field medic techniques such as establishing 2738 02:20:25.600 --> 02:20:29.799 walking blood banks, which have saved countless lives. What were 2739 02:20:30.040 --> 02:20:34.680 some of the more counterintuitive things that were learned along 2740 02:20:34.760 --> 02:20:36.319 the way during these twenty years. 2741 02:20:36.440 --> 02:20:40.719 It's great now, that is a good question at Portland Bias, 2742 02:20:41.040 --> 02:20:44.520 But I do think the radio medics to light years 2743 02:20:44.959 --> 02:20:47.719 beyond a lot of data metics out there. And I've 2744 02:20:47.760 --> 02:20:51.680 worked close with pretty much every type of medic in 2745 02:20:51.799 --> 02:20:55.079 all the organizations. But I think the hungry Ranger medic 2746 02:20:56.079 --> 02:20:59.479 I think, and it's not just it has nothing to 2747 02:20:59.479 --> 02:21:01.600 do with this or nothing like that. I just think 2748 02:21:01.639 --> 02:21:08.159 because they're just they're saturated with that knowledge of the 2749 02:21:08.200 --> 02:21:10.840 Range of medic handbook and the institutional knowledge, and. 2750 02:21:10.879 --> 02:21:13.879 They have the PA and the surgeons that are there. 2751 02:21:14.559 --> 02:21:18.360 I've even seen eighteen deltas at our fresher course saying, 2752 02:21:18.440 --> 02:21:19.959 you know, our surgeon won't even. 2753 02:21:19.879 --> 02:21:22.280 Let us do this or do that, and they'll closed 2754 02:21:22.319 --> 02:21:22.799 my mind or. 2755 02:21:22.760 --> 02:21:26.440 An anteing delta, that's crazy, But ours always pushed us 2756 02:21:26.559 --> 02:21:30.000 harder and push the envelope even when the FBA won't 2757 02:21:30.000 --> 02:21:32.879 allow it. So yeah, when it comes to walking blood bank, 2758 02:21:32.959 --> 02:21:35.360 we're talking about taking blood from that ranger over there 2759 02:21:35.399 --> 02:21:37.920 who's a low tighter and putting it in this ranger 2760 02:21:38.000 --> 02:21:40.040 who needs it. And it's not me. The medic is 2761 02:21:40.079 --> 02:21:42.520 doing it because I have to. You know, if I'm 2762 02:21:42.559 --> 02:21:46.000 doing damage control or censitation on this guy, I need 2763 02:21:46.079 --> 02:21:49.559 an infantryman to draw the blood from that guy, put 2764 02:21:49.600 --> 02:21:51.719 it in the bag, and then we can administrate it 2765 02:21:51.760 --> 02:21:56.399 to this guy. So, you know, I think that Ranger Medics, 2766 02:21:56.479 --> 02:22:01.520 because of the organization, I think they've been able to 2767 02:22:01.559 --> 02:22:03.280 push that envelope harder than any other. 2768 02:22:03.920 --> 02:22:06.000 I think PGAs are great, They're good at medicine. 2769 02:22:06.079 --> 02:22:08.559 They did do really well. I think, you know, PA 2770 02:22:08.719 --> 02:22:12.360 medics are good. Once sixtieth medics phenomenal, they are. But 2771 02:22:12.840 --> 02:22:15.559 I've never seen another organization where a sergeant major or 2772 02:22:15.600 --> 02:22:18.799 a first sergeant or a masistarn or a platoon sergeant 2773 02:22:18.799 --> 02:22:20.879 would come over and help you do medicine. Yeah, and 2774 02:22:20.920 --> 02:22:23.239 they're good at it because they've been doing teacher for 2775 02:22:23.639 --> 02:22:26.600 ten years at that time. I think that's what really 2776 02:22:26.680 --> 02:22:30.959 helps in the surgeons in the PA. I think that's 2777 02:22:31.000 --> 02:22:32.440 what really helps the organization. 2778 02:22:33.399 --> 02:22:34.120 That's fantastic. 2779 02:22:34.879 --> 02:22:37.799 Uh, you did say counter into it in Yeah? 2780 02:22:37.879 --> 02:22:40.399 Can I hear that right? So? Do you mean something 2781 02:22:40.479 --> 02:22:44.479 that wasn't was not beneficial, something something. 2782 02:22:44.280 --> 02:22:47.000 That seemed that seemed like it wouldn't work but did 2783 02:22:47.319 --> 02:22:49.959 or kind of blew your mind that this is actually 2784 02:22:50.280 --> 02:22:51.079 something that works. 2785 02:22:53.479 --> 02:22:57.639 Yeah. I think the freshneld blood was good. That's changed 2786 02:22:57.760 --> 02:23:01.440 military medicine for the better going forward. I'd say that's 2787 02:23:01.440 --> 02:23:04.000 probably the biggest one there. And I think one thing 2788 02:23:04.079 --> 02:23:06.120 that we had to get people out of the mindset was, 2789 02:23:07.000 --> 02:23:08.879 you know, I had platoon sergeants that were like, Hey, 2790 02:23:08.920 --> 02:23:10.639 we need to do IV training and I'm like, no, 2791 02:23:10.799 --> 02:23:13.319 you don't, because you shouldn't be putting blood or you 2792 02:23:13.360 --> 02:23:16.719 shouldn't be pushing normal saline or crystal lloyds or whatever. 2793 02:23:16.879 --> 02:23:19.120 So let's get away from IV training and let's start 2794 02:23:19.159 --> 02:23:22.879 doing something a little bit more applicable. Something I need 2795 02:23:22.959 --> 02:23:26.360 you to actually do that took a lot of breaking 2796 02:23:26.440 --> 02:23:27.000 the culture. 2797 02:23:27.600 --> 02:23:29.159 So it's sort of like, why do we need lactat 2798 02:23:29.200 --> 02:23:30.879 of ringers when we have private smith right there. 2799 02:23:31.760 --> 02:23:35.520 Yep. So for a long time, because you know, starting 2800 02:23:35.559 --> 02:23:38.040 an IV is like a technical thing, so infantry folks 2801 02:23:38.079 --> 02:23:40.280 were like, oh, it's fun, so they wanted to do it. 2802 02:23:40.360 --> 02:23:41.920 But I'm like, I don't really need you to start 2803 02:23:41.959 --> 02:23:43.799 the IV. I need you to do this instead, So 2804 02:23:44.319 --> 02:23:46.959 kind of kind of breaking that culture was a little 2805 02:23:46.959 --> 02:23:47.319 hard to do. 2806 02:23:47.520 --> 02:23:51.639 Yeah, Well, they just wanted it for those Saturday mornings 2807 02:23:51.639 --> 02:23:53.440 when they were feeling like shit from me. 2808 02:23:53.440 --> 02:23:55.000 Hey, that's what I was there for, man, I would 2809 02:23:55.000 --> 02:23:56.719 take anybody anytime, day and night. 2810 02:23:57.719 --> 02:23:59.760 How students bless their souls. 2811 02:24:00.079 --> 02:24:04.920 Yeah, Abdy, thank you so much for the very generous donation. 2812 02:24:05.040 --> 02:24:08.520 We deeply appreciate it. Abby says, Hey, I'm twenty four, 2813 02:24:08.680 --> 02:24:11.520 just in working as a TCU nurse, wanting to be 2814 02:24:11.600 --> 02:24:14.319 a sixty eight whiskey since high school, just stuck in 2815 02:24:14.360 --> 02:24:17.760 the immigration limbo until until then. Thanks Jack and Dave, 2816 02:24:17.799 --> 02:24:19.879 you guys help me. Hey, thank you, Abdy. 2817 02:24:20.360 --> 02:24:20.520 Man. 2818 02:24:21.360 --> 02:24:23.840 We were rooting for you. I mean we had we 2819 02:24:23.920 --> 02:24:27.200 had Adam Kamalan, you know, talking about his like you 2820 02:24:27.280 --> 02:24:32.360 know immigration, uh sort of journey and and getting into 2821 02:24:32.680 --> 02:24:36.399 the military and and all his stuff, and like bringing 2822 02:24:36.680 --> 02:24:40.280 immigrants is a phenomenal like it's it's it's a phenomenal 2823 02:24:40.319 --> 02:24:41.280 asset to the military. 2824 02:24:42.319 --> 02:24:45.079 Oh, for sure. In my experience, I've worked with stuggle 2825 02:24:45.159 --> 02:24:49.000 that have done phenomenal whether they've I've met a few 2826 02:24:49.079 --> 02:24:52.719 from Rutta, from even Ukraine, and then some of the 2827 02:24:52.879 --> 02:24:55.760 what they call it the Mavney program, is that what 2828 02:24:55.840 --> 02:24:57.639 they called that back in the day was probably no 2829 02:24:57.719 --> 02:24:58.200 better than I do. 2830 02:24:58.600 --> 02:24:59.799 Where they thigh out folks. 2831 02:25:00.520 --> 02:25:03.440 They would bring some folks in straight from some of 2832 02:25:03.520 --> 02:25:07.959 the other countries shim. Yeah, but that's really well. I 2833 02:25:08.040 --> 02:25:09.879 thought it was called Madne or something like that. But 2834 02:25:09.959 --> 02:25:12.239 I'd worked with some of those folks. They did a 2835 02:25:12.520 --> 02:25:13.479 really really good job. 2836 02:25:13.920 --> 02:25:17.079 Yeah, well I'll do. We wish you all the all 2837 02:25:17.120 --> 02:25:20.319 the best on your journey, brother Bjorn, Thank you very much. 2838 02:25:20.639 --> 02:25:23.840 How often do cag Metics twenty fourth has ts, medics 2839 02:25:23.879 --> 02:25:26.040 and j now work alongside each other, and how would 2840 02:25:26.079 --> 02:25:31.440 you characterize their differences tactically and medically. I'm just I'm 2841 02:25:31.479 --> 02:25:33.639 gonna I'm going to answer part of that for you, 2842 02:25:33.840 --> 02:25:35.799 so so that you don't have to say anything and 2843 02:25:35.840 --> 02:25:39.799 will just say that tactically, like they're all medics and 2844 02:25:39.959 --> 02:25:42.120 they work according to the tactics of the people they 2845 02:25:42.120 --> 02:25:45.200 are with. Uh so we'll just solve that right there 2846 02:25:45.280 --> 02:25:46.479 and then you can answer. 2847 02:25:46.200 --> 02:25:46.680 The rest of them. 2848 02:25:47.280 --> 02:25:49.959 No, that's that's correct. But the two four their medics 2849 02:25:50.079 --> 02:25:50.799 are phenomenal. 2850 02:25:51.200 --> 02:25:55.520 But you'll find for medics are typically farmed out, more 2851 02:25:55.559 --> 02:25:58.840 so when deployed to the other units. Yeah, so they 2852 02:25:58.879 --> 02:26:02.079 work all the time. But when it comes to medicine, 2853 02:26:02.639 --> 02:26:05.040 once again, it's a small world. So we would share 2854 02:26:05.159 --> 02:26:06.959 a lot of our stuff, whether it's going through our 2855 02:26:07.000 --> 02:26:09.479 medical repressure or whatever. We're all side by side and 2856 02:26:09.520 --> 02:26:12.879 you're sureing that so nobody likes the board that experience. 2857 02:26:12.920 --> 02:26:15.120 And even at our medical repressure, it would be a 2858 02:26:15.200 --> 02:26:19.200 time for ar or become classified. You know, we take 2859 02:26:19.239 --> 02:26:21.639 it from non classified to classified, close the doors whatever. 2860 02:26:22.200 --> 02:26:25.879 You know, if we had to discuss, you know, combat 2861 02:26:25.959 --> 02:26:28.159 lessons learned, Well, what do you think. 2862 02:26:28.440 --> 02:26:30.239 In your opinion from the time that you were in 2863 02:26:30.440 --> 02:26:35.319 two thousand and three or four up until and I 2864 02:26:35.440 --> 02:26:38.280 mean act if not your guartan or guartan obviously, but 2865 02:26:38.600 --> 02:26:41.319 until you've retired, what do you think was the biggest 2866 02:26:41.440 --> 02:26:48.479 shift in like medical knowledge, what we thought averse what 2867 02:26:48.639 --> 02:26:48.840 we know. 2868 02:26:49.120 --> 02:26:51.520 Yeah, yeah, I would say it's probably like the two 2869 02:26:51.520 --> 02:26:54.239 thousand and five two thousand and six seven time frame 2870 02:26:54.319 --> 02:26:59.680 where you know, teacher pile c became prevalent. It was 2871 02:26:59.719 --> 02:27:02.600 that dgment for a while, but became prevalent everywhere else, 2872 02:27:03.479 --> 02:27:05.719 and then the conventional force they dragged their feet for 2873 02:27:05.840 --> 02:27:07.959 a hot minute when it came to that kind of stuff. 2874 02:27:08.040 --> 02:27:11.440 So everybody was issued a tournique around that time frame, 2875 02:27:12.440 --> 02:27:17.200 and people started to take ownership of the casualties. So 2876 02:27:17.479 --> 02:27:20.200 I think around that time frame because you know, there's 2877 02:27:20.239 --> 02:27:24.079 been studies showing preventable death on the battlefield and it's 2878 02:27:24.200 --> 02:27:27.280 and it's remarkably high. So it's twenty four to twenty 2879 02:27:27.360 --> 02:27:31.200 six percent of combat categies were potentially survival. I mean, 2880 02:27:31.280 --> 02:27:34.600 if the organization or the service member was trained on 2881 02:27:34.680 --> 02:27:37.200 putting their own turn quit on or putting tournique on 2882 02:27:37.319 --> 02:27:40.399 for the other person, if they could identify and intrigue 2883 02:27:40.399 --> 02:27:43.879 attensive physiology or secure an airway, you know, twenty four 2884 02:27:43.879 --> 02:27:48.120 percent of people potentially could survived. And that's that's massive. 2885 02:27:48.440 --> 02:27:51.120 So and I think around that time a two thousand five, 2886 02:27:51.120 --> 02:27:53.879 Sealed six. The Range of Medican book was really getting momentum. 2887 02:27:55.559 --> 02:27:58.959 Committee of Teacher will See was staffed with some of 2888 02:27:59.040 --> 02:28:01.239 the greatest minds, and I think that's probably when it 2889 02:28:01.639 --> 02:28:04.079 really started to develop. And going back to our Medical 2890 02:28:04.120 --> 02:28:07.760 Refresher was really aggressive. In that timeframe. You had dudes 2891 02:28:07.799 --> 02:28:12.520 coming back like Hi Delta's Sarks, people coming back with 2892 02:28:12.760 --> 02:28:18.360 real world experience, and so we really really capitalized on that. 2893 02:28:18.600 --> 02:28:20.959 Yeah, and for people because I don't know if we 2894 02:28:21.079 --> 02:28:26.239 cover with T triple C is tactical commat casualty care right, yep? 2895 02:28:26.360 --> 02:28:30.200 Correct, Yeah, And there's a there's an app, Deployed Medicine app. 2896 02:28:30.280 --> 02:28:33.639 It's free, is developed and launched by the Department's Defense. 2897 02:28:33.719 --> 02:28:37.399 So if anybody has like an Apple Superior Apple productor 2898 02:28:38.680 --> 02:28:40.760 or stamp Stung whatever, you should be able to find 2899 02:28:40.799 --> 02:28:43.520 it Deployed Medicine. It has the latest and greatest, most 2900 02:28:43.639 --> 02:28:46.920 updated information on there and of course it's free, so 2901 02:28:47.840 --> 02:28:48.319 check that out. 2902 02:28:48.799 --> 02:28:52.680 Can't be free on last one, Oh M Corvin, thank 2903 02:28:52.719 --> 02:28:55.239 you very much. Be sure to hit the like inscribed. Yes, 2904 02:28:55.319 --> 02:28:56.639 please be sure to hit the like. 2905 02:28:57.079 --> 02:28:59.920 Check out our Patreon page the links down in the description, 2906 02:29:00.040 --> 02:29:02.559 and you can get access to all these episodes out free. 2907 02:29:02.879 --> 02:29:04.559 So Mike, where are you at today and what are 2908 02:29:04.600 --> 02:29:05.040 you working on? 2909 02:29:06.200 --> 02:29:09.639 Yeah, so I'm in Maine. We are going to stay 2910 02:29:09.639 --> 02:29:12.559 in Maine. So this is kind of my final resting thought. 2911 02:29:12.760 --> 02:29:14.840 I've been working for Stafeguard Medical for a couple of 2912 02:29:14.879 --> 02:29:18.159 years now. I do new business development and they're out 2913 02:29:18.159 --> 02:29:21.360 of North Carolina, a global company, so I'm still able 2914 02:29:21.440 --> 02:29:26.120 to apply a lot of my medical nerd stuff there. 2915 02:29:26.879 --> 02:29:29.959 I've also been working with some folks that ventus I 2916 02:29:30.079 --> 02:29:31.799 getch you guys some more information if you need it. 2917 02:29:31.920 --> 02:29:34.719 But I've been working with a lot of folks who 2918 02:29:34.959 --> 02:29:39.040 have recently separated or are going through the separation and 2919 02:29:39.319 --> 02:29:43.040 helping them out with getting access to care issues squared away, 2920 02:29:43.079 --> 02:29:49.239 whether it's the VA or working with local treatment facilities 2921 02:29:49.280 --> 02:29:53.520 and stuff like that. And it's been overwhelming to see 2922 02:29:53.680 --> 02:29:56.760 how many folks are coming back with long issues. And 2923 02:29:56.840 --> 02:30:01.440 so I partnered up with the ventist folks and it's 2924 02:30:01.559 --> 02:30:05.479 like a it's a respirator that helps shelter out a 2925 02:30:05.600 --> 02:30:08.040 lot of the toxic exposure that we have just from 2926 02:30:08.079 --> 02:30:11.600 firing a gun. You know, the leg and are are 2927 02:30:12.000 --> 02:30:15.319 all the different chemicals there? So we're working on that 2928 02:30:16.079 --> 02:30:20.280 becoming hopefully a standard. Is the item for special operations 2929 02:30:20.440 --> 02:30:23.200 and the conventional forces. If they're going to the range 2930 02:30:23.239 --> 02:30:25.639 and they're shooting a rifle or doing whatever, they should 2931 02:30:25.639 --> 02:30:29.360 have to spend this month time for for people who uh, you. 2932 02:30:29.399 --> 02:30:32.799 Know, for for people who you know think that they 2933 02:30:32.920 --> 02:30:36.360 might be having a shoot like what if it but 2934 02:30:36.559 --> 02:30:38.760 don't know it? Maybe they think I'm just out of 2935 02:30:38.840 --> 02:30:41.440 shape these days, Like what what should they look for? 2936 02:30:41.559 --> 02:30:42.360 What should they ask? 2937 02:30:43.000 --> 02:30:44.079 You know, the V A to chet. 2938 02:30:45.079 --> 02:30:48.399 That's a good question. So typically with the VA to 2939 02:30:48.520 --> 02:30:50.120 be able to get in there and get your basic 2940 02:30:50.200 --> 02:30:53.719 blood work done. So if thebody goes in there and 2941 02:30:53.719 --> 02:30:55.959 they're like, well, I'm lethargic or whatever, the VA has 2942 02:30:56.000 --> 02:30:59.399 to look at it as completely new patient like what 2943 02:30:59.479 --> 02:31:02.600 could poss and doing a whole workup is it's going 2944 02:31:02.680 --> 02:31:04.399 to be a lot of work, and most guys are 2945 02:31:04.440 --> 02:31:06.440 probably gonna have issues with their test offs aone when 2946 02:31:06.479 --> 02:31:09.399 they're getting out separating and because of the lifestyle for 2947 02:31:09.520 --> 02:31:13.719 many years, folks deal with with that poor anxiety, with 2948 02:31:13.840 --> 02:31:16.760 dealing with the new environment. They're in depression because they're 2949 02:31:16.799 --> 02:31:19.479 not doing That's something I've had to battle with I 2950 02:31:19.639 --> 02:31:23.680 used to be top of my game doing phenomenal things 2951 02:31:23.719 --> 02:31:26.200 with phenomenal people, and then it just hit the brakes 2952 02:31:26.239 --> 02:31:28.959 and you're doing something different. So dealing with those kinds 2953 02:31:28.959 --> 02:31:31.479 of things they're narrowing it down to like one thing 2954 02:31:31.680 --> 02:31:35.559 is extremely hard to do. But I would always suggest 2955 02:31:35.680 --> 02:31:38.639 get your vitals because vitals are vital for reason. So 2956 02:31:38.879 --> 02:31:41.959 trend your vitals. If my blood pressure was this last 2957 02:31:42.000 --> 02:31:44.360 week and it's this this week, I can trend that 2958 02:31:44.440 --> 02:31:46.399 I have high blood pressure. That's pretty easy to do. 2959 02:31:47.000 --> 02:31:48.600 And get your blood labs. It's blood. 2960 02:31:48.879 --> 02:31:49.799 Blood labs don't lie. 2961 02:31:50.319 --> 02:31:53.639 So if your levels are you know, above normal range 2962 02:31:53.719 --> 02:31:57.760 or above appropriate or acceptable levels, or they're below, it's easy. 2963 02:31:57.600 --> 02:32:00.399 To see that kind of trigger. But work through some 2964 02:32:00.520 --> 02:32:02.760 of the other things are going to be. 2965 02:32:02.760 --> 02:32:07.360 A lot less. So I would suggest if I've worked 2966 02:32:07.399 --> 02:32:09.280 with the v A team and they've been great for me, 2967 02:32:09.600 --> 02:32:11.280 but I said, I want to see my values of it. 2968 02:32:11.479 --> 02:32:13.319 I think my test officerone is low. I want to 2969 02:32:13.360 --> 02:32:16.399 get it checked. So they've been very great about doing that. 2970 02:32:16.760 --> 02:32:20.520 And would the VA do testone replace or do they 2971 02:32:20.600 --> 02:32:21.559 do tr T or. 2972 02:32:22.159 --> 02:32:25.000 That's hit or missed. In my experience, I've had to 2973 02:32:25.040 --> 02:32:29.600 go through civilian channels to get my own personal test 2974 02:32:29.639 --> 02:32:33.840 offsterone with the VA. Your acceptable level depending on that 2975 02:32:34.000 --> 02:32:39.280 practitioner is it varies And it's unfortunate because we're seeing 2976 02:32:39.360 --> 02:32:43.440 a lot of folks that have really low testosterone and 2977 02:32:43.559 --> 02:32:46.479 it's it's kind of affecting their their day to day life, 2978 02:32:46.559 --> 02:32:50.040 the quality outlook on life in the VA and I 2979 02:32:50.120 --> 02:32:51.680 think and it's not doing enough about it. 2980 02:32:51.920 --> 02:32:55.879 And correct me if I'm wrong, But like, levels are 2981 02:32:56.000 --> 02:32:57.840 very different because if a guy used to have like 2982 02:32:57.920 --> 02:32:59.920 an eight hundred nine hundred, now he has a five. 2983 02:33:00.159 --> 02:33:02.600 Relative if he has a five hundred, that's going to 2984 02:33:02.639 --> 02:33:05.120 be low to him as opposed to somebody who has 2985 02:33:05.159 --> 02:33:07.079 three hundred and used to have five. 2986 02:33:07.360 --> 02:33:09.959 And I'm not an end of chronologist, but sure watching 2987 02:33:10.000 --> 02:33:13.079 and like astraally, but yeah, but you're absolutely it's relative 2988 02:33:13.120 --> 02:33:16.280 to the person. But generally, if you used to feel 2989 02:33:16.360 --> 02:33:19.239 this and you used to you know, be able to 2990 02:33:19.319 --> 02:33:21.120 do this and now you're not, that could be a 2991 02:33:21.200 --> 02:33:25.040 pretty good reason. And then when I personally got testosterone, 2992 02:33:25.319 --> 02:33:26.159 it changed my life. 2993 02:33:26.319 --> 02:33:30.239 Yeah, and last question, I'm sorry, but you know you're 2994 02:33:30.360 --> 02:33:33.760 you're such a wealth of knowledge and we're learning more 2995 02:33:33.799 --> 02:33:34.239 all the time. 2996 02:33:34.280 --> 02:33:36.879 You know, we talked about TBIs. 2997 02:33:36.440 --> 02:33:39.920 And now we're you know, now we're finally starting to 2998 02:33:40.040 --> 02:33:44.239 realize the effects of blast injuries, breaching and I d 2999 02:33:44.440 --> 02:33:47.360 S and you know, mortars and stuff like that. How 3000 02:33:48.200 --> 02:33:55.399 is medicine able to uh to split apart TB I, 3001 02:33:55.959 --> 02:33:59.600 post traumatic stress, you know, operation like these things or 3002 02:34:00.360 --> 02:34:02.159 is it just a big soup where they're like, well, 3003 02:34:02.200 --> 02:34:04.559 this person's been in combat and it could be any 3004 02:34:04.600 --> 02:34:05.159 of these things. 3005 02:34:06.239 --> 02:34:10.239 Yeah. So in my experience when I separated from the military, 3006 02:34:10.440 --> 02:34:13.079 I know for a fact I had TBIs. Like I 3007 02:34:13.479 --> 02:34:15.959 even that trip in Masoul, I hit my head while 3008 02:34:15.959 --> 02:34:18.440 I was treating rangers shot in the face. I hit 3009 02:34:18.479 --> 02:34:22.040 my head on the kevlar thing, and like eventually threw 3010 02:34:22.159 --> 02:34:25.639 up from it. I know I had TBIs. And when 3011 02:34:25.680 --> 02:34:28.120 I did the TVI screening for the VA, it was 3012 02:34:28.200 --> 02:34:32.479 a civilian and he just was like, you know, what 3013 02:34:32.600 --> 02:34:34.600 are these shapes? What are these animals? And asked me 3014 02:34:34.719 --> 02:34:36.280 to memorize some things, and he said, I don't have 3015 02:34:36.319 --> 02:34:40.319 a TVR, like you're insane. I went to Belvoir and 3016 02:34:40.479 --> 02:34:42.920 had brain scans and they could see that I had 3017 02:34:43.399 --> 02:34:46.200 lasting issues. So I think the VA has a long 3018 02:34:46.319 --> 02:34:52.639 way to go. And to your point also, I've talked 3019 02:34:52.639 --> 02:34:55.319 to a lot of practitioners that will suggest that they 3020 02:34:55.399 --> 02:34:58.559 do exascer boats. So if somebody has depression, they have anxiety, 3021 02:34:58.680 --> 02:35:01.719 but they also have PTS and they also have traumatic 3022 02:35:01.799 --> 02:35:07.040 brain injuries. If they all exacerbate and they make everything worse, right, 3023 02:35:07.200 --> 02:35:09.920 So you've got to treat all of them in different ways, 3024 02:35:09.959 --> 02:35:12.079 different modalities to be able to get that best. And 3025 02:35:12.159 --> 02:35:14.399 there's a lot of things out there. There's this stay 3026 02:35:14.520 --> 02:35:17.760 like gangling block that yeah, you know, doctor mulvaney that 3027 02:35:17.840 --> 02:35:21.159 those folks do is you know, phenomenal. I cannot suggest anymore, 3028 02:35:21.280 --> 02:35:24.479 you know, higher than the ketamine. I think low dose 3029 02:35:24.559 --> 02:35:29.000 ketamine has been introduced out there. There's mushroom therapy. Once again, 3030 02:35:29.040 --> 02:35:32.879 I'm not yeah, I can't speak to it scientifically or 3031 02:35:33.479 --> 02:35:35.120 I haven't personally tried it. 3032 02:35:35.239 --> 02:35:38.559 But there's other modalities that are that folks are. 3033 02:35:38.440 --> 02:35:40.079 Taking a look at, and I'm happy for it. And 3034 02:35:40.120 --> 02:35:44.280 I think some VA systems are even looking into THHD 3035 02:35:45.319 --> 02:35:48.040 as well. So hopefully we get there, but I could 3036 02:35:48.079 --> 02:35:49.120 tell you we're not there yet. 3037 02:35:49.239 --> 02:35:51.879 Yeah, especially with the VA like the stelly gangling block, 3038 02:35:51.959 --> 02:35:54.120 I think like you have to jump through hoops of 3039 02:35:54.120 --> 02:35:56.159 the VA and don't. They don't give it for post 3040 02:35:56.159 --> 02:35:58.799 traumatic stress. They only give it for a certain type 3041 02:35:58.799 --> 02:36:02.760 of pain, you know. Like, yeah, so the VA is 3042 02:36:02.840 --> 02:36:05.879 still like they're way behind when it comes to level 3043 02:36:05.920 --> 02:36:07.200 of care that a lot of people need. 3044 02:36:07.879 --> 02:36:10.719 I think, I think my biggest advice to separating folks 3045 02:36:10.760 --> 02:36:12.319 the folks that are already out you have to take 3046 02:36:12.399 --> 02:36:14.479 charge of You have to take charge of your healthcare 3047 02:36:14.920 --> 02:36:17.680 because if you don't, nobody else will. If you think that, 3048 02:36:18.159 --> 02:36:19.520 you know, I go to the VA and I see 3049 02:36:20.079 --> 02:36:23.600 this provider today, I might go back and see somebody else. Yeah, 3050 02:36:23.719 --> 02:36:25.639 it's not like my time in regiment where I saw 3051 02:36:25.719 --> 02:36:28.280 the same person every time. You have to take charge 3052 02:36:28.399 --> 02:36:30.639 of your health care, and don't be afraid to be 3053 02:36:30.840 --> 02:36:33.639 open about it. Be transparent with your friends, with the 3054 02:36:33.719 --> 02:36:36.120 people you've served with. I had people calling me up 3055 02:36:36.120 --> 02:36:38.239 and like, hey man, this is bothering me. I'm like, no, 3056 02:36:38.399 --> 02:36:40.879 shit is bothering me. You watch somebody to get shot 3057 02:36:40.920 --> 02:36:43.280 in the face. I'm not surprised that that's bothering you, 3058 02:36:43.440 --> 02:36:46.799 right right, And so like being open about it and 3059 02:36:46.920 --> 02:36:49.120 talking to folks and not seeing that as a sign 3060 02:36:49.159 --> 02:36:51.680 of weakness or anything like that, which I think we've 3061 02:36:51.959 --> 02:36:54.799 we've gotten so much better about because while we were 3062 02:36:54.840 --> 02:36:59.120 in I said and saw and did things that if 3063 02:36:59.159 --> 02:37:01.280 I said it bothered me. You know what, they're taking 3064 02:37:01.319 --> 02:37:03.559 off the line right to lose my clearance, right, you 3065 02:37:03.600 --> 02:37:05.280 know what are these issues and so we kind of 3066 02:37:05.319 --> 02:37:08.280 hate a lot of that. You just don't have to 3067 02:37:08.360 --> 02:37:09.000 do that anymore. 3068 02:37:09.280 --> 02:37:15.399 Yeah, well, Mike, thank you for joining us tonight and 3069 02:37:15.520 --> 02:37:18.479 doing this show and sharing your life experiences like this 3070 02:37:18.559 --> 02:37:21.280 has been like super cool and they're actually very unique 3071 02:37:22.079 --> 02:37:24.600 to dive this deep into combat medicine. 3072 02:37:26.200 --> 02:37:29.399 Oh no, I apologized. I've never done like a podcast before, 3073 02:37:29.440 --> 02:37:31.760 and I don't really like talk about, you know, my 3074 02:37:31.959 --> 02:37:34.799 history that much. That's you know, I've got to peek 3075 02:37:34.840 --> 02:37:38.159 it all together based off memories and things that happened. 3076 02:37:38.239 --> 02:37:40.840 But you were horrible. You only made it two hours 3077 02:37:40.879 --> 02:37:44.600 and two hours and forty minutes, and so I'm just kidding. 3078 02:37:44.639 --> 02:37:48.159 I have what one final shout out of shameless self promotion. 3079 02:37:48.399 --> 02:37:48.760 There you go. 3080 02:37:49.280 --> 02:37:52.760 My book We Defy is coming out December ninth. The 3081 02:37:52.879 --> 02:37:57.879 Lost Chapters of Special Forces History about uh the SF 3082 02:37:58.000 --> 02:38:01.479 teams that jumped in with backpack nuke weapons, about the 3083 02:38:01.600 --> 02:38:06.319 first counter terrorism unit in Special Operations, the guys who 3084 02:38:06.360 --> 02:38:10.079 worked under cover in Berlin. It's available for pre order 3085 02:38:10.200 --> 02:38:14.920 now on Amazon and it will be out on December ninth. 3086 02:38:15.000 --> 02:38:16.559 How many interviews did you do for this book? 3087 02:38:16.639 --> 02:38:21.479 Chach like, probably close to one hundred altogether. It's like 3088 02:38:21.600 --> 02:38:24.440 ten years of research. I mean, it's quite a while. 3089 02:38:24.799 --> 02:38:28.760 So it covers Detachment A, Detachment Kay, Blue Light, Green Light, 3090 02:38:28.959 --> 02:38:33.000 and the commanders in Extremist Force. That's the five chapters 3091 02:38:33.040 --> 02:38:35.319 of the book. So I appreciate if you guys go 3092 02:38:35.399 --> 02:38:35.959 and check. 3093 02:38:35.799 --> 02:38:39.040 It out, order it order or the commedis Win. 3094 02:38:39.559 --> 02:38:43.479 Yeah exactly. I mean, do you hate the troops? 3095 02:38:43.760 --> 02:38:45.959 I mean, so. 3096 02:38:47.520 --> 02:38:51.440 Next this coming Monday, we're gonna have Ed Bogan on 3097 02:38:51.520 --> 02:38:57.680 the show CIA Senior Dude. And then on Friday, we're 3098 02:38:57.680 --> 02:39:01.040 going to have Mike West, who is in the Rhodesian 3099 02:39:01.280 --> 02:39:05.159 and South African Special Forces. So that's what's coming up next. 3100 02:39:06.920 --> 02:39:07.680 Thank you everybody. 3101 02:39:07.719 --> 02:39:10.559 We appreciate it. Thank you Mike. We really appreciate it. 3102 02:39:10.600 --> 02:39:11.360 It was fantastic. 3103 02:39:12.399 --> 02:39:13.360 Thank girl. Stay safe,