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Every week another fascinating author talking about 30 00:01:28.439 --> 00:01:31.439 the most shocking and infamous killers in true crime history. 31 00:01:32.120 --> 00:01:36.920 True Murder with your host journalist and author Dan Zufanski. 32 00:01:47.079 --> 00:01:51.200 Good evening, Police Chief Greg Adams was out on patrol. 33 00:01:51.760 --> 00:01:55.599 Christmas was coming to Saxonburg, Pennsylvania, a quaint borough of 34 00:01:55.799 --> 00:01:59.840 just thirteen hundred in three short weeks. The winter air 35 00:02:00.159 --> 00:02:04.159 was crisp, colored lights sparkled on houses. He was only 36 00:02:04.159 --> 00:02:06.480 a block and a half from the police department, and 37 00:02:06.599 --> 00:02:10.919 this was just an average traffic stop until it wasn't. 38 00:02:11.879 --> 00:02:14.159 The devoted husband and father of two little boys was 39 00:02:14.199 --> 00:02:18.960 about to meet any law enforcements officer's nightmare. Moments later, 40 00:02:19.039 --> 00:02:21.039 he would lay dying in a pool of his own 41 00:02:21.120 --> 00:02:25.159 blood on that white winter snow, while his killer vanished 42 00:02:25.199 --> 00:02:30.159 like an operation into thin air. Despite as many aliases, 43 00:02:30.280 --> 00:02:33.680 the true identity of the murder was quickly found. The 44 00:02:33.800 --> 00:02:38.599 killer himself was not, As State police and FBI investigators 45 00:02:38.639 --> 00:02:41.719 peeled back to twisted layers of low level mobster Donald 46 00:02:41.759 --> 00:02:44.919 Webb's life. The path of the killer would wind through 47 00:02:45.000 --> 00:02:51.039 decades toward a shocking conclusion. After all, secrets can only 48 00:02:51.080 --> 00:02:54.400 be kept for so long. The book that we're featuring 49 00:02:54.400 --> 00:02:57.599 this evening is The Ghost, the Murder of Police Chief 50 00:02:57.639 --> 00:03:00.240 Greg Adams and the Hunt for his Killer, with my 51 00:03:00.319 --> 00:03:04.319 special guest, journalist and author Maureen Boyle. Welcome back to 52 00:03:04.360 --> 00:03:06.560 the program, and thank you so much for this interview. 53 00:03:06.800 --> 00:03:07.520 Maureene Boyle. 54 00:03:08.960 --> 00:03:11.919 Oh, thank you very much for having me. I always 55 00:03:12.000 --> 00:03:13.000 enjoyed talking with you. 56 00:03:14.719 --> 00:03:18.759 So do I and it says again, congratulations on this book, 57 00:03:19.039 --> 00:03:24.800 The Ghost, remarkable, remarkable. Let's go right to the beginning 58 00:03:24.919 --> 00:03:30.240 of this and this is in Saxonburg, Pennsylvania. As we 59 00:03:30.240 --> 00:03:34.840 did in the introduction, just tell us briefly before we 60 00:03:34.879 --> 00:03:40.240 get right into this December fourth, nineteen eighty and inside 61 00:03:40.319 --> 00:03:44.639 the Freeling home Midge and Donald were home. But before that, 62 00:03:45.080 --> 00:03:50.039 just tell us your connection to this area, Saxonburg, Pennsylvania. 63 00:03:50.919 --> 00:03:55.560 Well, actually I don't have a connection to Saxonburg. I 64 00:03:55.719 --> 00:04:00.199 learned of this story. I live in Massachusetts, and I 65 00:04:00.280 --> 00:04:02.879 was a reporter in Massachusetts, and I had just finished 66 00:04:03.919 --> 00:04:06.479 one book, one a true crime book, and I was 67 00:04:06.520 --> 00:04:13.400 looking for another idea for a book, and I discovered 68 00:04:13.599 --> 00:04:20.360 the killer of our Chief Adams was from this area, 69 00:04:21.160 --> 00:04:26.839 and that really intrigued me because I had been a 70 00:04:26.879 --> 00:04:29.759 police reporter in the New Bedford area and this is 71 00:04:29.759 --> 00:04:33.240 where the killer was from in the nineteen eighties, in 72 00:04:33.279 --> 00:04:39.360 the mid eighties through the nineties. And while I knew 73 00:04:39.399 --> 00:04:45.879 the name of this individual, Donald's Web, I really wasn't 74 00:04:45.920 --> 00:04:50.879 aware that he might that he was still wanted, that 75 00:04:51.800 --> 00:04:55.720 he could even be in the area. So that was 76 00:04:55.800 --> 00:05:00.439 my connection to the story, and it took me to 77 00:05:00.759 --> 00:05:05.519 Saxenburg where it all started, and we went down there. 78 00:05:06.360 --> 00:05:10.439 Saxenburg is a lovely, lovely community, very very tight knit, 79 00:05:11.199 --> 00:05:13.360 and what struck me from the minute I went to 80 00:05:13.399 --> 00:05:19.439 Saxonburg was how those in the community have never forgotten 81 00:05:19.639 --> 00:05:24.800 the chief, our Chief Greg Adams. They were really determined 82 00:05:25.800 --> 00:05:32.439 in spirit to find him, and those members of law 83 00:05:32.519 --> 00:05:38.360 enforcement who were involved with the case, even after they retired, 84 00:05:38.759 --> 00:05:43.680 they were still working on it with new investigators. So 85 00:05:43.759 --> 00:05:46.800 that's sort of the sum of how I got involved 86 00:05:46.839 --> 00:05:49.399 with it. And I just found it a very very 87 00:05:49.519 --> 00:05:57.199 very fascinating case of how someone could kill, especially a 88 00:05:57.240 --> 00:06:00.639 member of law enforcement, and then just vanish, and that 89 00:06:00.759 --> 00:06:03.800 people could keep the secret of where he might be 90 00:06:04.920 --> 00:06:05.759 for so long. 91 00:06:07.240 --> 00:06:11.879 Yes, you take us to December fourth, nineteen eighty in Saxonburg, 92 00:06:12.920 --> 00:06:16.439 and you take us inside the Freeling home. And this 93 00:06:16.480 --> 00:06:20.519 is Donald as a teenager. He's staying home from school 94 00:06:21.079 --> 00:06:25.399 and his mother is home, Midge, and he hears something 95 00:06:25.480 --> 00:06:30.000 that he thinks is like hitting a stick against a tree, 96 00:06:30.040 --> 00:06:33.120 and then he hears a loud boom. And then he 97 00:06:33.160 --> 00:06:35.959 also thinks that he heard a faint cry for help, 98 00:06:36.000 --> 00:06:38.120 but he couldn't see anyone. So he called for his 99 00:06:38.160 --> 00:06:42.399 mother and said someone is calling for help. Take it 100 00:06:42.399 --> 00:06:45.680 from there. What the mother and the team do and 101 00:06:45.800 --> 00:06:50.839 find that day December fourth, nineteen eighty. 102 00:06:50.959 --> 00:06:58.839 Yes, the tiger heard something outside. He looks outside, can't 103 00:06:58.879 --> 00:07:02.439 see anything. You tell his mom. Then he thinks he's here. 104 00:07:02.600 --> 00:07:05.879 He's hearing someone calling for help. And he's telling his mom, hey, 105 00:07:05.920 --> 00:07:09.800 someone's outside, someone's calling for help. And she's just she's vacuuming, 106 00:07:10.240 --> 00:07:13.639 and she's thinking, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, we'll be 107 00:07:13.800 --> 00:07:18.040 talking about So Saxonburg is a very quiet town. They live, 108 00:07:18.319 --> 00:07:24.160 not fought up from the Aguay Hardware store. Nothing nothing 109 00:07:24.160 --> 00:07:28.279 ever happens in town. Uh. And then she hears something. 110 00:07:29.040 --> 00:07:32.879 They go outside and they find that she's in the 111 00:07:32.959 --> 00:07:39.120 snow and he's he's mortally wounded. At that that point, 112 00:07:39.839 --> 00:07:47.120 they call for police and then the it's the Because 113 00:07:47.160 --> 00:07:53.759 Saxonburg is so small, the amts are actually part of 114 00:07:53.800 --> 00:07:57.720 the fire department and they are all volunteers. So she 115 00:07:57.879 --> 00:08:03.439 calls and the ambulance arrived. One of the ambulance workers 116 00:08:04.000 --> 00:08:08.480 is also a member of the police department, and they 117 00:08:08.600 --> 00:08:12.439 recognize who it is immediately, and they're in the back 118 00:08:12.480 --> 00:08:18.199 of the ambulance trying desperately to save the chief's life, 119 00:08:19.240 --> 00:08:21.319 and they're talking to them and they're telling them to 120 00:08:21.399 --> 00:08:25.240 hang on, hang on, hang on, as they're racing along 121 00:08:25.800 --> 00:08:30.439 these country roads in the snow, in the ice to 122 00:08:30.519 --> 00:08:33.360 get to the hospital. And they get there in record time, 123 00:08:34.919 --> 00:08:38.000 but you know, it's nineteen eighty they don't have the 124 00:08:38.039 --> 00:08:41.080 best equipment in the ambulance, you know, not like we 125 00:08:41.279 --> 00:08:44.279 might have today. And you know, they get there and 126 00:08:44.279 --> 00:08:47.360 they're like, you know, just hang on, hang on, hang on, Greg. 127 00:08:48.279 --> 00:08:52.360 But by the time they get to the hospital, he's 128 00:08:52.399 --> 00:08:58.960 already gone. And it's just heart wrenching. When the those 129 00:08:58.960 --> 00:09:01.519 that were in the ambulance they're telling the story, I mean, 130 00:09:02.039 --> 00:09:05.559 would it breaks you horror, because here is someone who's 131 00:09:05.600 --> 00:09:09.039 a colleague, here's someone who's a friend, here is someone 132 00:09:09.080 --> 00:09:15.159 who they know, and they are seeing him die before 133 00:09:14.840 --> 00:09:19.879 their very eyes. And to this day, when they're telling 134 00:09:19.919 --> 00:09:24.639 the story, you can tell that it's still playing in 135 00:09:24.759 --> 00:09:30.399 their minds. It's a scene that they'll never ever forget. 136 00:09:31.320 --> 00:09:38.000 They're just haunted to this day. So at that point, 137 00:09:38.519 --> 00:09:43.879 the chiefs are someone contacts the chief's wife. She's at home. 138 00:09:44.039 --> 00:09:48.679 They have two young children, one is a toddler and 139 00:09:48.720 --> 00:09:52.440 the other one is an infant, and someone comes over 140 00:09:52.519 --> 00:09:55.399 to watch the kids, and she gets to the hospital 141 00:09:55.440 --> 00:10:00.080 and that's when she's told now her husband is gone. 142 00:10:00.200 --> 00:10:04.600 And in that moment, you know, one moment, she's planning 143 00:10:04.600 --> 00:10:09.519 for Christmas, the next moment, she's a widow, and her 144 00:10:09.639 --> 00:10:15.799 wife is turned completely inside out. The entire town is 145 00:10:16.480 --> 00:10:21.759 turned inside out because Saxonburg. People joke in the area 146 00:10:21.759 --> 00:10:25.960 about Saxonburg. They say, it really is like Mayberry. It 147 00:10:26.120 --> 00:10:32.919 is very community oriented. It is a quaint, tight knit 148 00:10:33.679 --> 00:10:38.879 town with a lot of festivals parades. Someone once told 149 00:10:38.919 --> 00:10:41.480 me that Saxonburgh is the type of town that will 150 00:10:41.519 --> 00:10:45.919 have a parade for a parade because there's a certain 151 00:10:46.000 --> 00:10:48.799 joy in the town, and the killing of the chief 152 00:10:48.919 --> 00:10:53.039 really did it killed part of that joy, even though 153 00:10:53.039 --> 00:10:56.679 they keep on kept on moving forward. But in that 154 00:10:56.759 --> 00:11:02.320 moment when the chief is brought to the hospital, police 155 00:11:02.360 --> 00:11:07.000 throughout the area just converge on Saxonburg. There's only two 156 00:11:07.039 --> 00:11:12.039 full time police officers in Saxonburg. One of them was 157 00:11:12.039 --> 00:11:16.399 in the ambulance and one of them had just died. 158 00:11:16.960 --> 00:11:21.919 So say police in the area converge on the community. 159 00:11:22.200 --> 00:11:29.080 They send up helicopters looking for the killer for the 160 00:11:29.120 --> 00:11:33.480 car that just drove off, and they can't find them. 161 00:11:33.879 --> 00:11:38.120 Roadblocks are set up because they've already got speed traps 162 00:11:38.159 --> 00:11:42.039 in the area anyhow, there's a lot of traffic enforcement 163 00:11:42.080 --> 00:11:47.519 around there, so they're blocking off the area and the 164 00:11:47.720 --> 00:11:52.200 killer just seems to have vanished. And that has always 165 00:11:52.279 --> 00:11:57.879 puzzled people in that area. It's very rural and when 166 00:11:57.919 --> 00:12:01.159 we went through there and the current chief took us 167 00:12:01.480 --> 00:12:04.559 through the area, and unless you know where you're going, 168 00:12:06.240 --> 00:12:08.399 you don't know where you're going. It's one of those 169 00:12:08.600 --> 00:12:13.679 those areas well. It's always been puzzling how the killer 170 00:12:14.799 --> 00:12:16.879 was able to escape detection. 171 00:12:19.039 --> 00:12:21.480 But he did talk about what definitely let's talk about 172 00:12:21.919 --> 00:12:24.200 Let's talk about what was found at the crime scene. 173 00:12:24.320 --> 00:12:27.480 Before we talked about this person that was a phantom 174 00:12:27.480 --> 00:12:31.919 and disappeared seemingly. What was found at the crime scene? 175 00:12:31.919 --> 00:12:35.720 What evidence did they have, What did they determine happened 176 00:12:35.720 --> 00:12:39.200 to the killer? Tell us about what police could determine 177 00:12:39.240 --> 00:12:41.720 forensically from that crime scene. 178 00:12:42.440 --> 00:12:47.480 Well, they believed that the at that time, they believed 179 00:12:47.480 --> 00:12:50.639 that the chief may have shot the killer because there 180 00:12:50.720 --> 00:12:52.720 was quite a bit. There was blood there, both the 181 00:12:52.799 --> 00:12:58.559 chief's blood and this unknown and blood that they believed 182 00:12:58.679 --> 00:13:02.840 was that of the killer. They NFL found a licensed 183 00:13:02.960 --> 00:13:10.080 driver's license there, uh and that that license that that 184 00:13:10.320 --> 00:13:12.679 was the name of the individual by the name of 185 00:13:12.720 --> 00:13:14.240 Stanley Portis. 186 00:13:14.759 --> 00:13:15.039 Uh. 187 00:13:15.080 --> 00:13:21.679 So they started checking on uh on that uh the 188 00:13:21.840 --> 00:13:25.240 license was out of there was a New Jersey. It 189 00:13:25.320 --> 00:13:28.399 was out of New Jersey. So they wound up looking 190 00:13:29.679 --> 00:13:33.879 for uh, some of the R and B records to 191 00:13:33.960 --> 00:13:38.840 see if uh where this individual lived and uh and 192 00:13:38.879 --> 00:13:46.840 that uh it wound up it wound up being a puzzle. 193 00:13:47.600 --> 00:13:52.600 They wound up piecing together this very intricate puzzle of well, 194 00:13:54.399 --> 00:13:57.320 once they got the name, the name of Stanley Portis, 195 00:13:57.519 --> 00:14:00.639 and then they eventually discovered that was an alias for 196 00:14:01.240 --> 00:14:05.480 a man named Donald's web. But at the scene of 197 00:14:05.519 --> 00:14:08.519 the crime, it was it was clear that there was 198 00:14:08.519 --> 00:14:15.279 a scuffle, there was blood, and there was a driver's license. 199 00:14:17.399 --> 00:14:20.679 Right now. You also talk about there was a witness 200 00:14:20.720 --> 00:14:24.360 that said that they had seen somebody limp away from 201 00:14:24.440 --> 00:14:26.519 this car and they didn't get another description of the 202 00:14:26.559 --> 00:14:30.240 person because the person was ducking down. But also very 203 00:14:30.279 --> 00:14:34.919 important there was a description of police took it very seriously. 204 00:14:35.080 --> 00:14:37.639 Description of the car, what was the model, and the 205 00:14:37.679 --> 00:14:39.799 color of the car. 206 00:14:43.720 --> 00:14:48.679 It was white and it was a Mercury Cougar. They 207 00:14:49.000 --> 00:14:55.360 were able to eventually track down where through a series 208 00:14:55.440 --> 00:15:04.600 of just plain hard hard work amongst the police officers 209 00:15:04.600 --> 00:15:08.120 and the investigators trying to track down where this this 210 00:15:08.240 --> 00:15:10.480 car was, and they determined that it was a car 211 00:15:10.960 --> 00:15:15.559 rental car and eventually we're able to track it down 212 00:15:15.679 --> 00:15:21.519 to who rented the car and after even mural work, 213 00:15:23.039 --> 00:15:27.320 where it was where one of the vehicles this individual 214 00:15:27.360 --> 00:15:30.320 had rented a number of cars, and tracked down where 215 00:15:30.360 --> 00:15:35.360 the car was rented from, and everything eventually pointed to Massachusetts, 216 00:15:35.799 --> 00:15:38.600 and that's where they believed that the killer was from 217 00:15:38.759 --> 00:15:40.080 and may have fled. 218 00:15:39.720 --> 00:15:47.960 To You talk about the you talk about this investigation 219 00:15:48.080 --> 00:15:53.240 into his New England connections, But what was the what 220 00:15:53.399 --> 00:15:56.919 was the criminal gang that they found that he was 221 00:15:56.960 --> 00:15:59.360 a member of, and what was some of the information 222 00:15:59.399 --> 00:16:01.919 they found out about the characteristics of this gang? 223 00:16:02.799 --> 00:16:07.159 Yeah, the killer was Eventually they found out this this 224 00:16:07.240 --> 00:16:11.440 individual had a number of different names. Uh. They discovered 225 00:16:11.440 --> 00:16:15.720 that his real name was Donald Webb. Was originally from 226 00:16:16.960 --> 00:16:22.200 the Midwest, but made his way to New England after 227 00:16:22.240 --> 00:16:26.879 he joined the service. UH. And he was living in 228 00:16:27.120 --> 00:16:31.840 New Bedford, Massachusetts, but he was with his wife, whose 229 00:16:31.879 --> 00:16:37.039 first husband was a man named Stanley Portis, and that 230 00:16:37.240 --> 00:16:40.159 was one of the names that he used as an alias. 231 00:16:40.799 --> 00:16:47.279 He was a low level mobster. He hung around with 232 00:16:47.360 --> 00:16:50.919 a group of individuals from Fall River, which is one 233 00:16:51.480 --> 00:16:57.480 city over from New Bedford, and they called themselves the 234 00:16:57.559 --> 00:17:03.799 Fall River Gang. It wasn't uh very imaginative, but these 235 00:17:03.799 --> 00:17:12.799 individuals would break into jewelry stores, homes throughout the Northeast 236 00:17:13.200 --> 00:17:16.880 and sometimes down excuse me, by the way down the 237 00:17:16.920 --> 00:17:22.000 East coast. They did not do many jobs in their 238 00:17:22.039 --> 00:17:26.200 home area. They would go outside. They'd go to Connecticut, 239 00:17:26.200 --> 00:17:35.240 they'd go to New York. They'd go to Pennsylvania, Delaware, Maryland, Florida, Virginia. 240 00:17:36.160 --> 00:17:40.319 They would go, they travel in some place, sometimes even 241 00:17:40.359 --> 00:17:47.279 into the Midwest, but but not in their in their hometown, 242 00:17:47.359 --> 00:17:54.319 even though they're very well known around here. So they 243 00:17:54.359 --> 00:17:56.799 were and they were tied a little bit to the 244 00:17:57.160 --> 00:18:01.000 Providence mob, but they weren't part of the Providence mall. 245 00:18:02.039 --> 00:18:07.400 Right at the time of the killing. And yes, at 246 00:18:07.400 --> 00:18:10.680 the time of the killing. Oh, there was a warrant 247 00:18:11.599 --> 00:18:18.079 for uh Donald Webb. Wasn't there at the time. That 248 00:18:17.640 --> 00:18:18.799 way stopped him? 249 00:18:20.079 --> 00:18:23.680 Yeah, yeah, yes, there was. At the time of the killing, 250 00:18:23.839 --> 00:18:28.599 he had uh he was he had skipped bail out 251 00:18:28.640 --> 00:18:33.240 of u uh out of upstate New York. He and 252 00:18:33.720 --> 00:18:38.680 a group of his cohorts were pulling a scam up there, 253 00:18:38.720 --> 00:18:43.000 a robbery scam. They would go to different houses and 254 00:18:43.160 --> 00:18:48.160 pose as UH city workers, you know that old scam 255 00:18:48.200 --> 00:18:50.920 of oh, we're here to check the meter, we're here 256 00:18:50.960 --> 00:18:54.759 to check the water, We're here to do this, we're 257 00:18:54.759 --> 00:18:58.599 here to do that. So they showed up at a 258 00:18:58.640 --> 00:19:02.799 couple of houses, and in particular, they showed up at 259 00:19:02.839 --> 00:19:09.319 a house of an elderly couple. And this couple was 260 00:19:09.359 --> 00:19:13.839 a little bit suspicious about them, and they wound up 261 00:19:13.880 --> 00:19:20.759 calling the police, and you know, after the crew left, 262 00:19:21.519 --> 00:19:24.839 the police were already on the alert for these individuals, 263 00:19:25.440 --> 00:19:33.200 and they wound up arresting them. The group was arranged, 264 00:19:34.079 --> 00:19:38.720 they made bail, and they left, so they skipped bail 265 00:19:38.759 --> 00:19:41.599 and didn't return for their next court date. So there 266 00:19:41.640 --> 00:19:46.839 was a warrant out for Donald Webb's arrest, and that 267 00:19:47.039 --> 00:19:52.240 warrant was still active when he was stopped in Saxonburg, Pennsylvania. 268 00:19:52.359 --> 00:19:55.000 But there's some people who were speculating that he may 269 00:19:55.039 --> 00:19:58.759 have fought with the chief because he was afraid that 270 00:19:58.799 --> 00:20:02.160 the chief would find out who he was when he 271 00:20:02.279 --> 00:20:06.279 called in the stop and he would wind up going 272 00:20:06.359 --> 00:20:14.359 back to jail. However, I really think that Webb's fears unfounded, 273 00:20:14.720 --> 00:20:19.759 given that in nineteen eighty, unlike today, it was a 274 00:20:19.759 --> 00:20:25.680 little bit harder to check lawrence. They said it was 275 00:20:25.720 --> 00:20:29.279 a whole because things weren't computerized, so it was a 276 00:20:29.319 --> 00:20:34.039 whole involved process checking someone's name, and especially since he 277 00:20:34.160 --> 00:20:38.319 was using the alias, because he want would have been 278 00:20:38.400 --> 00:20:42.559 under his name of Donald's Web or even Donald Perkins, 279 00:20:43.440 --> 00:20:47.799 because he was using both names, not Stanley Porters, that 280 00:20:47.839 --> 00:20:50.519 would have been one of the aliases. So I'm not 281 00:20:50.640 --> 00:20:55.000 quite sure that the name on the license plate on 282 00:20:55.200 --> 00:20:58.759 his driver's license would have popped up during a check, 283 00:20:58.880 --> 00:21:03.359 but that may have been what web was was fearful of, 284 00:21:03.640 --> 00:21:08.960 and that may have been me why there was that 285 00:21:09.039 --> 00:21:12.839 fight between the two of them. But that's all speculation. 286 00:21:14.440 --> 00:21:20.920 That but that's what law enforcement and the investigators thought. 287 00:21:21.000 --> 00:21:24.920 That was probably why there was that confrontation between the two. 288 00:21:25.839 --> 00:21:30.119 You talk about also what you talk about that is 289 00:21:30.200 --> 00:21:35.480 also without any question, he was pistol with beaten and shot. 290 00:21:36.440 --> 00:21:38.839 He shot twice in the chest and under the armpit. 291 00:21:40.000 --> 00:21:44.519 Ironically or interestingly, sadly, he was not wearing a bulletproof 292 00:21:44.559 --> 00:21:47.720 vest because his bulletproof vest he needed a new one. 293 00:21:48.279 --> 00:21:50.319 The one he had was too small, so he wasn't 294 00:21:50.319 --> 00:21:50.960 wearing a vest. 295 00:21:51.079 --> 00:21:56.680 Yeah, yep. And every everything with people people had told 296 00:21:56.720 --> 00:22:01.039 me is that the chief was very, very safety conscious 297 00:22:01.200 --> 00:22:05.279 and it's kind of did things by the book. He 298 00:22:05.359 --> 00:22:10.000 had worked in the in the DC area prior to 299 00:22:10.640 --> 00:22:14.039 returning to Pennsylvania. He was a Pennsylvania native and he 300 00:22:14.079 --> 00:22:19.359 really liked small towns him. He was uh had worked 301 00:22:19.559 --> 00:22:22.519 down in the DC area for about two years and 302 00:22:22.640 --> 00:22:28.640 really didn't like it. And returned home and got married 303 00:22:29.000 --> 00:22:31.880 because he preferred the small town life and he didn't 304 00:22:32.119 --> 00:22:36.079 like the larger cities. He considered them too dangerous, which 305 00:22:36.079 --> 00:22:41.680 is really ironic. He survived working in a larger city 306 00:22:42.640 --> 00:22:47.119 and dealing with crime all the time, only to be 307 00:22:47.240 --> 00:22:53.000 killed in you know, a safe community, which is just heartbreaking. 308 00:22:54.680 --> 00:22:57.680 Yes, you write that he was working in Washington, d C. 309 00:22:58.400 --> 00:23:02.000 Didn't like it and worked with people that were now dead, 310 00:23:02.160 --> 00:23:08.720 had been killed on duty. So he went for a 311 00:23:08.799 --> 00:23:12.720 bus ride and met mary Anne, who was visiting her 312 00:23:12.759 --> 00:23:16.079 sister in Maryland, and there was only one seat left 313 00:23:16.119 --> 00:23:19.599 on the bus. She didn't really plan on being meeting anyone. 314 00:23:19.640 --> 00:23:22.240 Then they started chatting and by the end of that 315 00:23:22.279 --> 00:23:26.119 bus ride they had formed a relationship which they kept 316 00:23:26.319 --> 00:23:30.759 in touch and it seemed quite serious. And then he 317 00:23:30.799 --> 00:23:34.480 made his move to go back to Saxonburg for you say, 318 00:23:34.480 --> 00:23:37.640 a fraction of the pay to go back to where 319 00:23:37.759 --> 00:23:42.640 his roots were, and also with in mind that he 320 00:23:42.720 --> 00:23:46.680 and mary Anne would be together, and so they certainly 321 00:23:46.680 --> 00:23:50.640 did and were married. But like you say, ironically, he 322 00:23:50.759 --> 00:23:53.880 left Washington, d C. And that kind of work for 323 00:23:53.960 --> 00:23:57.319 this little place that he felt was and everyone else did. 324 00:23:57.680 --> 00:24:00.480 That was really incredibly safe. 325 00:24:00.039 --> 00:24:05.119 Yeah, yeah, that that is. I think that only one 326 00:24:05.200 --> 00:24:09.440 of the one of the heartbreaking up turned in this story. 327 00:24:09.559 --> 00:24:15.440 You know, he's he a larger city. He was uncomfortable, 328 00:24:15.480 --> 00:24:20.359 not necessarily uncomfortable with it, but disturbed by by the 329 00:24:20.440 --> 00:24:26.359 crime and what was what he was surrounded by. Uh, 330 00:24:26.440 --> 00:24:31.039 and then thinks that he's coming home, He's gonna he 331 00:24:31.160 --> 00:24:35.640 gets married, he has two children, he's building a life, 332 00:24:35.880 --> 00:24:41.799 his extended family is nearby. Uh. It's it's a perfect, 333 00:24:42.079 --> 00:24:46.000 perfect life, a perfect world for him, only to have 334 00:24:46.200 --> 00:24:49.759 someone who he has no idea who this person is. 335 00:24:50.079 --> 00:24:55.880 Who the person isn't even from the area, from the state, uh, 336 00:24:56.119 --> 00:25:00.240 someone from Massachusetts in a city he's never even been two. 337 00:25:02.759 --> 00:25:08.640 This chance encounter completely destroys his world and destroys a community, 338 00:25:10.000 --> 00:25:12.960 and you know, multiple and multiple lives. 339 00:25:14.279 --> 00:25:16.920 Yeah, thatsesus is an opportunity marine to stop for a 340 00:25:16.920 --> 00:25:18.319 second for these messages. 341 00:25:19.480 --> 00:25:21.839 Hello, it is Ryan and we could all use an 342 00:25:21.839 --> 00:25:24.160 extra bright spot in our day, couldn't we just to 343 00:25:24.160 --> 00:25:27.039 make up for things like sitting in traffic, doing the dishes, 344 00:25:27.200 --> 00:25:29.799 counting or steps, you know, all the mundane stuff. 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There are a lot 354 00:25:56.680 --> 00:26:03.160 of dedicated people, state troopers, FBI agents, and the FBI 355 00:26:03.319 --> 00:26:07.079 is involved with this in Pennsylvania State troopers and eventually 356 00:26:07.200 --> 00:26:15.440 Massachusetts State Patrol troopers as well state police. Pardon me, 357 00:26:16.440 --> 00:26:21.160 so let's talk about what they plan to do, and 358 00:26:21.319 --> 00:26:24.359 that is to speak to Lilian Web. They figure they 359 00:26:24.400 --> 00:26:26.400 need to speak to a lot of people, and they try, 360 00:26:27.200 --> 00:26:30.559 but the focus seems to be a good place to 361 00:26:30.599 --> 00:26:33.519 start would be Lilian Web. And then tell us about 362 00:26:33.640 --> 00:26:39.440 also this idea about getting a search warrant potentially for 363 00:26:39.839 --> 00:26:45.759 her home, but also before that, just the idea that 364 00:26:45.799 --> 00:26:48.640 they needed to speak to Lilian Web. And what was 365 00:26:48.680 --> 00:26:52.200 the results of those attempts. 366 00:26:53.839 --> 00:26:59.400 Donald's Web, who was identified kill They had obtained a 367 00:26:59.440 --> 00:27:03.599 warrant for his arrest for first degree murder on Christmas Eve. 368 00:27:06.440 --> 00:27:11.920 But prior to that, the state police Pennsylvania State Police 369 00:27:12.519 --> 00:27:17.359 had traveled to Massachusetts to try to find Donald's Web 370 00:27:17.680 --> 00:27:21.960 because they knew this was the killer. There was a 371 00:27:22.039 --> 00:27:26.759 variety of steps that were taken by teams of investigators. 372 00:27:27.359 --> 00:27:31.640 They'd gone to multiple states to track where the first 373 00:27:31.680 --> 00:27:37.400 to positively identify Donald Web and then to try and 374 00:27:37.440 --> 00:27:40.680 track where he might be and find some of his 375 00:27:41.440 --> 00:27:44.599 quote unquote colleagues and crime to see if they knew 376 00:27:44.599 --> 00:27:49.319 where he was. But they were able to determine that 377 00:27:49.440 --> 00:27:56.880 he was His family, his wife was living in New Bedford, Massachusetts, 378 00:27:57.799 --> 00:28:05.160 and they figured, well, he may return to Massachusetts to 379 00:28:05.319 --> 00:28:10.960 seek shelter. There was an FBI office in New Bedford 380 00:28:11.000 --> 00:28:15.720 at the time. The State Police Investigative Unit, Massachusetts Investigative 381 00:28:15.839 --> 00:28:20.000 Unit was also in Massachusetts was also in New Bedford 382 00:28:20.000 --> 00:28:24.720 at the time, so state police from Pennsylvania came up. 383 00:28:24.960 --> 00:28:30.119 They were working very closely with the Massachusetts troopers to 384 00:28:30.200 --> 00:28:36.279 try to I find Webb. They had gone to William 385 00:28:36.319 --> 00:28:42.039 Webb's residence and she insisted she did not know where 386 00:28:42.079 --> 00:28:47.480 he was. I had no idea, I hadn't seen him, 387 00:28:47.680 --> 00:28:50.880 no idea where he was. She was not very cooperative. 388 00:28:51.440 --> 00:28:54.799 They did not Obviously, the investigators did not believe her, 389 00:28:55.279 --> 00:28:58.680 so they began following her while they were also tracking 390 00:28:58.720 --> 00:29:01.720 down some of the people book that he knew. That 391 00:29:01.839 --> 00:29:05.640 included doing quite a bit of surveillance in some of 392 00:29:05.680 --> 00:29:10.200 the neighboring communities where he was known to you know, 393 00:29:10.279 --> 00:29:13.359 quote unquote do business, uh, and where some of his 394 00:29:13.440 --> 00:29:19.279 associates lived. They did a number of steakhouts. They checked 395 00:29:19.519 --> 00:29:23.039 local hospitals because based on the amount of blood that 396 00:29:23.160 --> 00:29:26.079 was found at the scene, UH, they believed that he 397 00:29:26.160 --> 00:29:29.359 may have been shocked, but they could not find any 398 00:29:29.440 --> 00:29:33.440 gunshot victims coming into any local hospitals. 399 00:29:33.960 --> 00:29:34.160 UH. 400 00:29:34.200 --> 00:29:37.200 So they decided to spend a lot of time the 401 00:29:37.400 --> 00:29:46.039