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<v Speaker 1>Weirding Way Media.

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<v Speaker 2>Hello and welcome to episode one hundred and forty seven

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<v Speaker 2>of The Filmingmnitary's podcast. This is your host, Jamie Benning,

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<v Speaker 2>and this is the show where I dig into the

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<v Speaker 2>behind the scenes stories with the people who were actually

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<v Speaker 2>there at the time making the films that we all

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<v Speaker 2>grew up watching and loving. In this episode, I'm joined

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<v Speaker 2>by model maker John Duncan. Now, if you've ever been

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<v Speaker 2>fascinated by the physical side of visual effect, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>the miniatures, the ships, the props, the actual stuff that

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<v Speaker 2>exists in front of the camera, then this is the

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<v Speaker 2>one for you. John's career spans an incredible range of

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<v Speaker 2>work from Star Trek and Star Wars to Pirates of

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<v Speaker 2>the Caribbean and Galaxy Quest. Another favorite of mine the

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<v Speaker 2>Matrix as well. And what's great about this conversation is

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<v Speaker 2>that he's done it all really concept models, hero miniatures, props,

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<v Speaker 2>even making prop replicas himself. He loves doing that. It's

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<v Speaker 2>his hobby as well as his job. It's his passion.

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<v Speaker 2>We talk about how he went from building things out

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<v Speaker 2>of paper and cardboard as a kid, and how he

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<v Speaker 2>got into ILM in nineteen ninety three and suddenly he

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<v Speaker 2>was working alongside the people he'd only ever seen on

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<v Speaker 2>bubblegum cards.

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<v Speaker 3>There's loads in here about.

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<v Speaker 2>The craft itself too, the reality of building for camera,

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<v Speaker 2>learning not to be too precious when your work gets

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<v Speaker 2>chopped up or repainted or exploded. We also talk about

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<v Speaker 2>his time on The Stars prequels, working with Doug Chang

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<v Speaker 2>as a concept model maker, essentially created what he calls

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<v Speaker 2>three D blueprints for the rest of the production to follow.

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<v Speaker 2>There's also some great stuff about Galaxy Quest pirates, like

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<v Speaker 2>I said, and the shift from physical models to digital

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<v Speaker 2>and where miniatures still absolutely hold their ground. And like

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of these conversations, it's also about the moment

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<v Speaker 2>where you realize this thing you've been doing for fun

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<v Speaker 2>is actually a job, or in John's case, a career

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<v Speaker 2>that kept him at ILM for for many, many years.

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<v Speaker 2>Before we get into it, just a quick mention of Patreon.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm currently aiming for two hundred patrons and I'm at

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<v Speaker 2>one hundred and seventeen right now. So if you enjoy

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<v Speaker 2>my podcast and want to support what I'm doing, and

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<v Speaker 2>it is just me doing it, I get no other help.

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<v Speaker 2>It's a lot of work, and I know there's a

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<v Speaker 2>lot of you listening out there. You can head over

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<v Speaker 2>to patreon dot com, forward slash Jamie Benning and support

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<v Speaker 2>the podcast that way. It really does help keep these

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<v Speaker 2>conversations going right. So here's my conversation with model maker

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<v Speaker 2>John Duncan, and I'll be back at the end for

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<v Speaker 2>a bit more jabbering on.

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<v Speaker 4>John.

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<v Speaker 3>Great to have you here today. We finally did it.

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<v Speaker 2>I've always been intrigued by the work of a model maker,

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<v Speaker 2>and I just kind of want to know where it

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<v Speaker 2>all started for you. Was this something you did as

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<v Speaker 2>a kid or did you have a different route into this.

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<v Speaker 5>Absolutely, I always built stuff as a kid when I

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<v Speaker 5>was as long as I can remember. I remember going

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<v Speaker 5>on car trips as a child and making things out

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<v Speaker 5>of paper and tape, just like to kill the time

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<v Speaker 5>while we were driving. And you would arrive at my

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<v Speaker 5>cousin's house with a little tiny paper suitcase with like

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<v Speaker 5>folded clothes inside of it, and so just you know,

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<v Speaker 5>stuff to keep me busy. And I've always had a

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<v Speaker 5>fascination with miniatures as well, So it was always the

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<v Speaker 5>smaller the better for me when I was little, and

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<v Speaker 5>it kind of less so now as an adult. I've

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<v Speaker 5>gotten into bigatures too, but the it was that was

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<v Speaker 5>kind of the draw for me was Wow, you can

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<v Speaker 5>take something that's existing in the real world and make

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<v Speaker 5>a little version of it, and that always and I

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<v Speaker 5>can make it. That was that was the thing that

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<v Speaker 5>was always fascinating for me. My parents were both kind

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<v Speaker 5>of crafty and do it yourself for types, and so

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<v Speaker 5>they just encourage that in, you know, with my my

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<v Speaker 5>w and I to you know, do things ourselves, like

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<v Speaker 5>if the car broke, we.

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<v Speaker 4>Go out and we fix it. You know. I remember

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<v Speaker 4>learning how to do you.

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<v Speaker 5>Know, carpentry and sewer repair and all kinds of different

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<v Speaker 5>things because hey, when it needed to be done, and

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<v Speaker 5>that's what you did, and so it gave me a

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<v Speaker 5>sense of I can do that sort of thing. So

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<v Speaker 5>that I was I always felt like, well, I don't

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<v Speaker 5>know how to do that, but somebody does that, so

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<v Speaker 5>or I should be able to learn how to do that.

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<v Speaker 4>So I would try it.

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<v Speaker 5>And eventually you can try enough things and you start

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<v Speaker 5>learning that you.

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<v Speaker 4>Can do stuff. Yeah, that's really cool.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean it's very not my skill level, what I

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<v Speaker 2>have to say on I think I had sort of

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<v Speaker 2>parents that had that kind of attitude of oh, give

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<v Speaker 2>it here, I could do it quicker.

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<v Speaker 3>You know.

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<v Speaker 2>It was never really sort of my parents never seem

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<v Speaker 2>to have that kind of patience to teach me. That's

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<v Speaker 2>a different mindset altogether.

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<v Speaker 5>But I found that I have a little bit of

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<v Speaker 5>what you were talking about, your parents wanting to help

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<v Speaker 5>my kids. I'd be like, oh, hey, let me show

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<v Speaker 5>you how to do that, and I would end up

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<v Speaker 5>doing it for them, and my kids actually had to

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<v Speaker 5>tell me sometimes, Dad, let me do it. We're like, oh, okay, sorry,

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<v Speaker 5>I'm just trying to help.

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<v Speaker 4>I was so exciting.

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<v Speaker 2>It sounds like like your your skills were also drawn

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<v Speaker 2>through sort of just being in that environment, through osmosis

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<v Speaker 2>in as many ways as not not necessarily sitting you

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<v Speaker 2>down and saying, sound, this is how you do this necessarily,

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<v Speaker 2>but maybe just being in a world where your parents

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<v Speaker 2>would fix things, they would make and mend and when

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<v Speaker 2>it was necessary, right.

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<v Speaker 5>Yeah, or just learning you know, doing crafts, you know,

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<v Speaker 5>making candles or you know, paper mache or that sort

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<v Speaker 5>of thing. When I after I got my driver's license,

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<v Speaker 5>I crashed a car and my dad said, I guess

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<v Speaker 5>you're learning automotive repair.

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<v Speaker 4>This summer so I learned how to do bodywork that summer.

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<v Speaker 4>That's great. So it was always this sort of that's

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<v Speaker 4>what you do.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, And when you were a small kid making these

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<v Speaker 2>little paper models and things, was there a particular model

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<v Speaker 2>in a shop that you wanted, like did you have

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<v Speaker 2>or is there one you can remember buying and thinking, Wow, I've.

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<v Speaker 3>Always wanted to build this.

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<v Speaker 4>I recall a number of different things. There was.

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<v Speaker 5>The first, well, the first model kit that I ever

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<v Speaker 5>got was a submarine model.

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<v Speaker 4>My dad.

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<v Speaker 5>Well, I'd building things. I'd start out with paper, and

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<v Speaker 5>then I moved into cardboard, and then I started getting

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<v Speaker 5>interested in, you know, plastic models of like ships and

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<v Speaker 5>cars and what have you. And so my dad took

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<v Speaker 5>me to the store and we picked out a model kit,

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<v Speaker 5>and I came home and I was young, I think,

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<v Speaker 5>maybe ten or something like that, and all I had

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<v Speaker 5>was Elmer's glue, which is just white glue, and so

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<v Speaker 5>I built it all with that, and of course you

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<v Speaker 5>put in the submarine, put the submarine in the bathtub

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<v Speaker 5>then and all that water gly just just alls away

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<v Speaker 5>and it falls apart.

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<v Speaker 4>But it was so fun doing that.

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<v Speaker 5>But I remember there were these little tiny cars that

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<v Speaker 5>I saw in a store once and I was like, oh,

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<v Speaker 5>I got.

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<v Speaker 4>To get some of those.

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<v Speaker 5>And then my dad got me into trains, so I

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<v Speaker 5>had an HO train set. And then of course I

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<v Speaker 5>learned that there were N scale train sets.

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<v Speaker 4>And I said, oh, I must have those, Dad.

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<v Speaker 5>And then I think around the age of fifteen, I

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<v Speaker 5>just discovered that Markland did Z scale trains.

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<v Speaker 4>So I gotta have the Z scale train.

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<v Speaker 5>I just kept going smaller and smaller and smaller throughout

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<v Speaker 5>as time progressed.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>I remember I was a sort of avid radio controlled

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<v Speaker 2>car builder with my dad, So I would have those

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<v Speaker 2>Tamia cars and i'd get a Tamir catalog. I've still

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<v Speaker 2>got a couple of them over here actually, where I

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<v Speaker 2>kind of pore over the pictures and be amazed at

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<v Speaker 2>how well people could make these models. Then I buy

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<v Speaker 2>one and make a complete mess of it. I mean,

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<v Speaker 2>there is a sort of lowering of expectations at a

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<v Speaker 2>certain point for a young kid when you know, when

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<v Speaker 2>buying those models, But when did you realize that maybe

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<v Speaker 2>you had this kind of knack for it.

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<v Speaker 5>Well, I mean, as a kid, I always felt that

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<v Speaker 5>I was pretty good at it. I was in boy Scouts,

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<v Speaker 5>when I was younger, and this was what pre around

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<v Speaker 5>twelve thirteen years old or something like that, and we

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<v Speaker 5>had carved the little neckerchief slides and it was an

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<v Speaker 5>Indian head and you just basically got a block of

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<v Speaker 5>wood that had the shape.

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<v Speaker 4>Of an Indian drawn on it.

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<v Speaker 5>Native American, I should say, but anyway, the uh so,

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<v Speaker 5>everybody in the troop was carving them, and I carved mine,

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<v Speaker 5>and it was a thing we did over the course

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<v Speaker 5>of a few weeks. And I went home and I

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<v Speaker 5>carved mine at home, finished it up, and I brought

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<v Speaker 5>it in and all the other kids were accusing me

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<v Speaker 5>of having my father do it because it looked like

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<v Speaker 5>what it was supposed to do. And the same thing

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<v Speaker 5>happened with a birdhouse that I built that you did

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<v Speaker 5>your dad build every and.

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<v Speaker 4>It's like, no, I did.

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<v Speaker 5>And so I kind of felt like, Okay, well, I

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<v Speaker 5>have a knack for making these sorts of things that

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<v Speaker 5>and then I discovered science fiction and I had a

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<v Speaker 5>I would make money by mowing people's lawns and then

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<v Speaker 5>as soon as I'd get I'd run down to the

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<v Speaker 5>to the local drug store and I'd buy all the

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<v Speaker 5>star trek kits because Star Wars didn't exist then, so

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<v Speaker 5>Star Trek was.

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<v Speaker 4>It for me.

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<v Speaker 5>And I'd get the Enterprise and the Klingon Ship and

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<v Speaker 5>all those things.

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<v Speaker 4>And that was that. I bought every single one of them.

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<v Speaker 2>Did you have them hanging from your bedo ceiling, hanging

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<v Speaker 2>in my room and that sort of thing.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, And it was it was fun.

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<v Speaker 5>It was a fun time because you just I would

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<v Speaker 5>work with whatever I had at my disposal. So if

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<v Speaker 5>you know, I remember the the what is it called

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<v Speaker 5>the technical the star Trek Starfleet Technical Manual came out

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<v Speaker 5>and I got a copy of it and it had

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<v Speaker 5>drawings of full size drawings of what the phaser, communicator

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<v Speaker 5>and the tricorder.

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<v Speaker 4>All looked like. I was saying, oh, I got to

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<v Speaker 4>build those.

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<v Speaker 5>And they were built. I built them out of basically

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<v Speaker 5>stacked corrugated cardboard like for just shipping boxes, and you know,

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<v Speaker 5>painted in black, and and they looked really good. The

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<v Speaker 5>top could flip open on things. But you know, if

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<v Speaker 5>you looked at it, you could see, you know, on

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<v Speaker 5>the side, it's all that corrugated cardboard, waviness and stuff.

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<v Speaker 4>But it you know, as a kid, you just use

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<v Speaker 4>what you can find. I used to.

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<v Speaker 5>Hoard, you know, like broken pens and toys and stuff,

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<v Speaker 5>so that I could use those to to.

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<v Speaker 4>Build other things with.

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<v Speaker 5>And it was just that was that was part of

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<v Speaker 5>my my growing up was just what can I make

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<v Speaker 5>this out of.

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<v Speaker 2>It sounds like you sort of major own apprenticeship almost

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<v Speaker 2>for what you were going to become as an adult.

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<v Speaker 2>When did that When did that switch kind of happen

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<v Speaker 2>for you? When did you realize, oh, maybe I could

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<v Speaker 2>make a career out of this.

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<v Speaker 5>It was it was it was well, I think it

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<v Speaker 5>was after of course Star Wars came out and then

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<v Speaker 5>they had the behind the scenes makings of and it's like, oh, wow,

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<v Speaker 5>there's people that do this for a living. And I'm

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<v Speaker 5>sure that's the story that a lot of people have said,

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<v Speaker 5>Uh is you know, oh you can get paid for

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<v Speaker 5>doing that? Well, it's not just a hobby.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 5>Of course, at that time, I thought, well, what are

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<v Speaker 5>the chances that I would ever get to work on

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<v Speaker 5>Star Wars or anything like that? And so I and

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<v Speaker 5>that was what that was around high school for me.

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<v Speaker 5>Jedi came out in eighty three and that's when I

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<v Speaker 5>graduated high school, and so I was kind of I

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<v Speaker 5>was sort of the prime demographic for Star Wars. I

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<v Speaker 5>think I was already a science fiction fan into Star

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<v Speaker 5>Trek and Space nineteen ninety nine and Battlestar GALACTICUD all this,

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<v Speaker 5>and then and and Star Wars comes out, and it

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<v Speaker 5>just took the world by storm, and it drew me

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<v Speaker 5>in immediately.

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<v Speaker 4>I was always drawn.

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<v Speaker 5>To the the robots and the bad guys. Those were

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<v Speaker 5>my Those are the ones that I paid attention to

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<v Speaker 5>the most. But then in college, I tried a number

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<v Speaker 5>of different major and eventually kind of stumbled across television

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<v Speaker 5>film production and I ended up getting a degreen television

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<v Speaker 5>film production and thought I was going to go work

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<v Speaker 5>at a TV station.

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<v Speaker 4>I actually did for about a year and a half.

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<v Speaker 4>I was working for an.

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<v Speaker 5>NBC affiliate doing the evening news as a technical director,

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<v Speaker 5>and and found immensely boring vision So.

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<v Speaker 2>You actually like vision mixing as we call it here TV.

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<v Speaker 2>You would call it, yeah, just pushing the camera buttons

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<v Speaker 2>kind of thing.

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<v Speaker 4>I was pushing the buttons and you know, yes, different.

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<v Speaker 5>Yeah, And it was after a year and a half

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<v Speaker 5>of doing the nightly news, found it exceedingly tedious.

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<v Speaker 4>And just boring.

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<v Speaker 5>So I yeah, while I was working on my degree,

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<v Speaker 5>I did an internship in San Francisco at KQDFM, the

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<v Speaker 5>NPR affiliate there, and of course they also had their

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<v Speaker 5>television station there and it so I got exposed to

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<v Speaker 5>it then, but I wasn't really working in it, but

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<v Speaker 5>I was making money because of course the internship was

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<v Speaker 5>not paid doing architectural models. A friend of mine had said, hey,

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<v Speaker 5>why don't you come work. It was also in San Francisco,

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<v Speaker 5>so I could make money while I was doing my internship,

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<v Speaker 5>and I was building architectural models in San Francisco, and

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<v Speaker 5>then through that ended up doing a commercial, met some

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<v Speaker 5>people from that, and then started doing ride films like

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00:14:33.480 --> 00:14:35.600
<v Speaker 5>Star Tours. I didn't do Star Tours, but I did

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<v Speaker 5>ride films like that. And then eventually the company I

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00:14:43.840 --> 00:14:46.440
<v Speaker 5>was working for was right across the bay from where

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<v Speaker 5>ILM was located in San Rafel and we were having

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<v Speaker 5>a lull our. Producer called ILM and said, hey, I

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<v Speaker 5>got a couple of guys we're going to be down

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00:14:58.159 --> 00:15:01.000
<v Speaker 5>for a little while. They could use some work. Do

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<v Speaker 5>you have anything available? And they said sure, send them over.

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00:15:04.039 --> 00:15:07.799
<v Speaker 5>So I got hired for two weeks like everybody else

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<v Speaker 5>does there, and ended up staying for nearly a decade

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<v Speaker 5>and a half.

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00:15:12.240 --> 00:15:14.759
<v Speaker 4>What year was that when they say that was.

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<v Speaker 5>Nineteen ninety three when my first project that I did

294
00:15:20.080 --> 00:15:25.440
<v Speaker 5>there it could just been done kind of No, that.

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00:15:25.360 --> 00:15:29.440
<v Speaker 4>Was ninety three. That was just prior to the release.

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<v Speaker 3>Oh yeah, I think right, So you were early ninety

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<v Speaker 3>three kind of thing.

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<v Speaker 5>Yeah, yeah, because I remember I remember going to see

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00:15:36.600 --> 00:15:41.399
<v Speaker 5>it and everybody was being really like worried about future

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00:15:41.399 --> 00:15:45.159
<v Speaker 5>of our careers.

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<v Speaker 4>And I was just so excited I was here. I

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00:15:46.840 --> 00:15:50.720
<v Speaker 4>was like, Yay, I'm finally here where I never thought

303
00:15:50.720 --> 00:15:51.039
<v Speaker 4>i'd be.

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00:15:52.360 --> 00:15:56.120
<v Speaker 5>So it was it was sort of a weird feeling

305
00:15:56.200 --> 00:15:58.000
<v Speaker 5>to have everybody go, oh my god, this is the end.

306
00:16:00.799 --> 00:16:02.240
<v Speaker 4>So what were you first hired to do?

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00:16:02.600 --> 00:16:03.039
<v Speaker 3>Iland?

308
00:16:03.639 --> 00:16:06.000
<v Speaker 5>The first project I worked on was actually a commercial,

309
00:16:06.279 --> 00:16:11.480
<v Speaker 5>was for Malaysian Airlines. And that was an amazing day

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00:16:11.519 --> 00:16:14.279
<v Speaker 5>for me because, like I said, I was a fan

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<v Speaker 5>of Star Wars. So I'm showing up my first day

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00:16:17.480 --> 00:16:20.320
<v Speaker 5>and I'm just trying really hard not to geek out

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00:16:20.399 --> 00:16:24.799
<v Speaker 5>over everything. And I walked into the model shop and

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00:16:24.840 --> 00:16:28.600
<v Speaker 5>I'm assigned to Larry Tan who's heading up the project

315
00:16:28.679 --> 00:16:33.039
<v Speaker 5>or that part of the project, and he says, hey, Okay, welcome,

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00:16:33.679 --> 00:16:36.200
<v Speaker 5>You're gonna be working with Steve today. And he introduces

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00:16:36.200 --> 00:16:39.759
<v Speaker 5>me to, of all people, Steve Golly, and inside my

318
00:16:40.000 --> 00:16:45.000
<v Speaker 5>little little John was like I have his Bubblegum card.

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00:16:47.519 --> 00:16:49.799
<v Speaker 4>And it's like, hell, hello, mister Golly, and he's like,

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00:16:49.840 --> 00:16:51.440
<v Speaker 4>hey Steve, call me Steve. You know.

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00:16:53.759 --> 00:16:56.000
<v Speaker 5>But that's how it was. It was so relaxed there.

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00:16:56.799 --> 00:16:59.519
<v Speaker 5>I mean, it was just so welcoming. I felt to

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00:16:59.799 --> 00:17:04.880
<v Speaker 5>to be there, and everybody there was someone who could

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00:17:04.880 --> 00:17:07.599
<v Speaker 5>teach me something and was willing to teach me something.

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<v Speaker 5>That was one of the wonderful things about working there

326
00:17:10.680 --> 00:17:13.440
<v Speaker 5>was you didn't get a lot of gatekeeping.

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00:17:13.480 --> 00:17:15.440
<v Speaker 4>You got people who were like, hey, let me show

328
00:17:15.440 --> 00:17:17.640
<v Speaker 4>you how to do this, or hey check this out.

329
00:17:18.359 --> 00:17:20.039
<v Speaker 4>And yeah.

330
00:17:20.079 --> 00:17:25.960
<v Speaker 5>But shortly after that commercial came Star Trek First Contact.

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<v Speaker 5>So again one of my childhood thrills was to get

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00:17:32.319 --> 00:17:35.359
<v Speaker 5>to work on Star Trek. And here I was building

333
00:17:35.359 --> 00:17:38.759
<v Speaker 5>the new enterprise, the enterprise e for for Star Trek

334
00:17:38.799 --> 00:17:42.200
<v Speaker 5>First Contact and a new board ship and you know,

335
00:17:42.359 --> 00:17:43.200
<v Speaker 5>other things like that.

336
00:17:43.279 --> 00:17:45.559
<v Speaker 4>So that it was it was this like.

337
00:17:47.359 --> 00:17:50.480
<v Speaker 5>The culmination of these childhood fantasies were coming true.

338
00:17:51.559 --> 00:17:56.200
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, ticking things off as you guys want taking things.

339
00:17:56.680 --> 00:18:00.720
<v Speaker 5>And at that point, the whole idea of Star Wars

340
00:18:00.799 --> 00:18:03.519
<v Speaker 5>coming back was completely off the table.

341
00:18:03.680 --> 00:18:06.279
<v Speaker 4>As far as we knew, George was done making Star Wars.

342
00:18:06.279 --> 00:18:07.240
<v Speaker 4>Star Wars was never good.

343
00:18:07.359 --> 00:18:10.240
<v Speaker 5>There were gonna be no more Star Wars movies made,

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00:18:10.480 --> 00:18:12.039
<v Speaker 5>you know. So I was just excited to be there

345
00:18:12.079 --> 00:18:13.200
<v Speaker 5>working on other movies.

346
00:18:14.000 --> 00:18:19.160
<v Speaker 4>And it was a little while after that.

347
00:18:19.559 --> 00:18:25.319
<v Speaker 5>I think we had Men in Black and there was

348
00:18:25.759 --> 00:18:28.720
<v Speaker 5>a couple of other movies and oh, I think this, well,

349
00:18:28.839 --> 00:18:32.279
<v Speaker 5>the Jurassic Park of course came out. Yeah, And that

350
00:18:32.440 --> 00:18:37.519
<v Speaker 5>was when and then Steve Golly came to me and said, hey,

351
00:18:37.720 --> 00:18:40.079
<v Speaker 5>the you it's been requested that you come up and

352
00:18:40.119 --> 00:18:42.359
<v Speaker 5>work at the ranch on the new Star Wars film.

353
00:18:42.920 --> 00:18:51.599
<v Speaker 5>And I was like, what the way? So yes, yes, yeah, wow.

354
00:18:52.279 --> 00:18:54.039
<v Speaker 2>Just just going back to us one second, like when

355
00:18:54.039 --> 00:18:57.200
<v Speaker 2>you arrived there, though initially you're used to making models

356
00:18:57.240 --> 00:19:00.559
<v Speaker 2>on your own, right now you're in this very collaborative world.

357
00:19:00.599 --> 00:19:01.920
<v Speaker 3>Did that take some adjustment?

358
00:19:04.279 --> 00:19:04.599
<v Speaker 4>Sure?

359
00:19:04.759 --> 00:19:09.000
<v Speaker 5>Absolutely, because in the of course, in the film industry,

360
00:19:10.279 --> 00:19:13.319
<v Speaker 5>you're not building them for yourself. You're building them for

361
00:19:13.799 --> 00:19:17.960
<v Speaker 5>the show, for the shot, for the director. And I

362
00:19:18.000 --> 00:19:21.759
<v Speaker 5>got a good lesson than that on that first Malaysian

363
00:19:21.759 --> 00:19:26.920
<v Speaker 5>Airlines commercial that I did, because you can't be precious

364
00:19:26.920 --> 00:19:30.799
<v Speaker 5>about what you do. Whatever you make could be you know,

365
00:19:31.559 --> 00:19:35.920
<v Speaker 5>not used, destroyed, whatever, repainted and something I'd built this

366
00:19:36.079 --> 00:19:40.839
<v Speaker 5>nice little model of a tram. They got it on set,

367
00:19:40.920 --> 00:19:43.200
<v Speaker 5>realized it was too big for what they needed. So

368
00:19:43.240 --> 00:19:46.240
<v Speaker 5>somebody took it, just ran it through the band saw,

369
00:19:46.319 --> 00:19:47.799
<v Speaker 5>took a few inches out of the middle of it,

370
00:19:47.839 --> 00:19:51.400
<v Speaker 5>closed it up and redid it. And you know, of

371
00:19:51.440 --> 00:19:54.319
<v Speaker 5>course all the detail I'd thrown in there was like, oh,

372
00:19:54.359 --> 00:19:57.880
<v Speaker 5>it was gone. And but you have to just go,

373
00:19:58.119 --> 00:19:59.920
<v Speaker 5>you know, that's the way it is. That's what's needed

374
00:20:00.079 --> 00:20:03.359
<v Speaker 5>for the shot. So you don't build things to be

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00:20:03.480 --> 00:20:07.759
<v Speaker 5>viewed up close unless it's going to be shot up close.

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00:20:07.960 --> 00:20:10.680
<v Speaker 4>And so you have to learn like how to build

377
00:20:11.319 --> 00:20:13.279
<v Speaker 4>for what's needed for the film.

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<v Speaker 2>Mm hmmm.

379
00:20:15.359 --> 00:20:16.240
<v Speaker 4>And I guess as well.

380
00:20:17.119 --> 00:20:19.000
<v Speaker 2>When you're doing it for yourself, you can kind of

381
00:20:19.039 --> 00:20:21.279
<v Speaker 2>take your time and you can really labor over it.

382
00:20:21.359 --> 00:20:23.960
<v Speaker 2>And but when you're working on a production, obviously you've

383
00:20:23.960 --> 00:20:27.160
<v Speaker 2>got to have sort of speed and accuracy and and

384
00:20:27.200 --> 00:20:31.119
<v Speaker 2>the level of finish and be problem solving all in

385
00:20:31.119 --> 00:20:33.599
<v Speaker 2>this world of uncertainty that you've just kind of joined

386
00:20:33.640 --> 00:20:33.920
<v Speaker 2>as well.

387
00:20:34.000 --> 00:20:34.599
<v Speaker 3>That must have been.

388
00:20:34.599 --> 00:20:40.039
<v Speaker 6>Quite an Anything you could do to do it faster

389
00:20:40.119 --> 00:20:45.559
<v Speaker 6>and better was was, you know, needed, because the deadlines

390
00:20:45.559 --> 00:20:47.039
<v Speaker 6>were never long enough.

391
00:20:48.400 --> 00:20:50.759
<v Speaker 5>I don't I don't think there was ever any model

392
00:20:50.799 --> 00:20:53.200
<v Speaker 5>that went out on set where you went, oh, yeah,

393
00:20:53.200 --> 00:20:56.160
<v Speaker 5>that's done, we didn't need another week or so on

394
00:20:56.200 --> 00:20:59.720
<v Speaker 5>that that was that was I mean that maybe that happened,

395
00:20:59.720 --> 00:21:02.799
<v Speaker 5>but that so rare. You were always like, oh, if

396
00:21:02.799 --> 00:21:07.279
<v Speaker 5>we just had another two weeks. I think every model

397
00:21:07.319 --> 00:21:08.559
<v Speaker 5>maker has probably said that.

398
00:21:09.440 --> 00:21:09.960
<v Speaker 4>Yeah.

399
00:21:10.000 --> 00:21:11.519
<v Speaker 2>And I imagine as well, like when you get a

400
00:21:11.559 --> 00:21:14.559
<v Speaker 2>design from somebody like First Star Trek, First Contact. Obviously

401
00:21:15.000 --> 00:21:17.400
<v Speaker 2>the enterprise kind of changed throughout that series of movies,

402
00:21:17.400 --> 00:21:19.119
<v Speaker 2>didn't it. There was always like a sort of bigger

403
00:21:19.119 --> 00:21:21.599
<v Speaker 2>and better one in a way. Are you working with

404
00:21:21.720 --> 00:21:26.680
<v Speaker 2>quite detailed drawings from the concept department and the design

405
00:21:26.720 --> 00:21:29.960
<v Speaker 2>departments or did they leave enough for you to really

406
00:21:30.039 --> 00:21:31.519
<v Speaker 2>kind of put your own stamp on.

407
00:21:31.480 --> 00:21:37.880
<v Speaker 5>It on every production? Every production varied, of course, but

408
00:21:38.839 --> 00:21:42.559
<v Speaker 5>the production the production drawings were always fairly loose. I

409
00:21:42.599 --> 00:21:45.279
<v Speaker 5>mean they would do close ups of things that they

410
00:21:46.039 --> 00:21:53.599
<v Speaker 5>were they felt were important. The drawings were often I

411
00:21:53.599 --> 00:21:55.759
<v Speaker 5>mean we never got blueprints per se.

412
00:21:57.079 --> 00:21:58.599
<v Speaker 4>Well, I take that back.

413
00:21:59.359 --> 00:22:01.720
<v Speaker 5>On parates of the Urban, we did get blueprints because

414
00:22:01.759 --> 00:22:05.079
<v Speaker 5>Disney was producing that one, and they were building full saze.

415
00:22:04.839 --> 00:22:08.559
<v Speaker 4>Sorts of the ship and stuff too, But a lot of.

416
00:22:08.480 --> 00:22:11.240
<v Speaker 5>Times it was just they were just loose concept drawings

417
00:22:11.759 --> 00:22:16.559
<v Speaker 5>and we would take that and then interpret that to

418
00:22:16.960 --> 00:22:18.519
<v Speaker 5>get the look of what they wanted. And there was

419
00:22:18.519 --> 00:22:20.400
<v Speaker 5>always this back and forth that art directors would be

420
00:22:20.480 --> 00:22:22.720
<v Speaker 5>in and out of the shop to say, oh, yeah,

421
00:22:22.759 --> 00:22:26.400
<v Speaker 5>can you make that longer or narrower or whatever to

422
00:22:27.960 --> 00:22:30.039
<v Speaker 5>fit what they were really trying to get from the

423
00:22:30.400 --> 00:22:32.519
<v Speaker 5>from the model.

424
00:22:33.119 --> 00:22:36.160
<v Speaker 2>And it's part of that learning process, also knowing what

425
00:22:36.680 --> 00:22:39.400
<v Speaker 2>level of detail you have to do for the camera,

426
00:22:39.480 --> 00:22:42.559
<v Speaker 2>because obviously you can go beyond that for the naked eye.

427
00:22:42.599 --> 00:22:44.200
<v Speaker 2>I mean, I've seen some of the models I've been

428
00:22:44.240 --> 00:22:47.559
<v Speaker 2>to Ilm and to the Runch in recent years, and

429
00:22:47.880 --> 00:22:49.440
<v Speaker 2>I was kind of blown away at the level of

430
00:22:49.440 --> 00:22:52.640
<v Speaker 2>detail because when I compared to something like that Mate painting.

431
00:22:53.079 --> 00:22:54.920
<v Speaker 2>Some of those Mate paintings are like Chris Evans and

432
00:22:54.960 --> 00:22:57.319
<v Speaker 2>Mike Pangratzio and Jeck Green did some of them are

433
00:22:57.359 --> 00:23:00.400
<v Speaker 2>quite sort of, you know, rough a point because they

434
00:23:00.440 --> 00:23:03.079
<v Speaker 2>knew they didn't need like the finest detail because the

435
00:23:03.119 --> 00:23:05.960
<v Speaker 2>camera would do what it needs to sort of run.

436
00:23:06.119 --> 00:23:07.839
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, they could trick the camera the way.

437
00:23:08.359 --> 00:23:11.000
<v Speaker 5>What I always loved about the mat paintings was like

438
00:23:11.079 --> 00:23:14.119
<v Speaker 5>where the cutout was, where the insert shot would go,

439
00:23:14.359 --> 00:23:16.319
<v Speaker 5>That's where all the detail was, That's where all the

440
00:23:16.359 --> 00:23:17.440
<v Speaker 5>sharper details.

441
00:23:17.559 --> 00:23:20.240
<v Speaker 4>And then it's sort of the edges of the painting.

442
00:23:21.079 --> 00:23:23.000
<v Speaker 2>Which is that's where you're going to focus your eyes.

443
00:23:23.079 --> 00:23:25.319
<v Speaker 2>And do you apply that to the model making as

444
00:23:25.319 --> 00:23:27.039
<v Speaker 2>well to a certain extent, like you know what's going

445
00:23:27.079 --> 00:23:28.400
<v Speaker 2>to be in the foreground for this shot?

446
00:23:28.599 --> 00:23:29.319
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, if you.

447
00:23:29.319 --> 00:23:34.480
<v Speaker 2>Know, otherwise you have to complete it as near as

448
00:23:34.480 --> 00:23:35.799
<v Speaker 2>possible to perfect.

449
00:23:35.559 --> 00:23:36.880
<v Speaker 4>Right, yeah. Yeah.

450
00:23:36.960 --> 00:23:40.200
<v Speaker 5>And we would always provide coverage too, Like we would

451
00:23:40.200 --> 00:23:44.799
<v Speaker 5>get the storyboards to show like, Okay, the model is

452
00:23:44.799 --> 00:23:47.759
<v Speaker 5>going to be shot from this side and above and

453
00:23:47.759 --> 00:23:51.000
<v Speaker 5>below and over here, and so you'd realize, oh, this

454
00:23:51.079 --> 00:23:53.599
<v Speaker 5>whole backside of the model doesn't even need to be painted.

455
00:23:55.079 --> 00:23:55.640
<v Speaker 4>And then.

456
00:23:57.720 --> 00:23:59.680
<v Speaker 5>But at the same time you would provide coverage, you

457
00:24:00.640 --> 00:24:05.880
<v Speaker 5>detail beyond what the storyboards would say, because you wanted

458
00:24:05.920 --> 00:24:08.559
<v Speaker 5>to make sure that if they changed their mind, which

459
00:24:08.559 --> 00:24:10.359
<v Speaker 5>often happens, they get down and they go, oh it's

460
00:24:10.359 --> 00:24:12.119
<v Speaker 5>a slightly better shot if we take it from this

461
00:24:12.240 --> 00:24:15.160
<v Speaker 5>angle or move over here, or they've added a shot

462
00:24:16.119 --> 00:24:18.279
<v Speaker 5>that wasn't in the original storyboards. Now we need to

463
00:24:18.279 --> 00:24:20.599
<v Speaker 5>see it from this site. So you'd try to give

464
00:24:20.640 --> 00:24:23.319
<v Speaker 5>them as much. But then, of course that's always part

465
00:24:23.359 --> 00:24:27.519
<v Speaker 5>of the budget too, as your you're having to balance out.

466
00:24:27.119 --> 00:24:28.240
<v Speaker 4>How much work can we do on.

467
00:24:28.240 --> 00:24:31.480
<v Speaker 5>It and stay within budget and time?

468
00:24:32.759 --> 00:24:34.519
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, and not drive ourselves crazy.

469
00:24:34.839 --> 00:24:38.680
<v Speaker 5>That's always and that's always the flight in films is

470
00:24:39.559 --> 00:24:41.279
<v Speaker 5>how much can you put on the screen.

471
00:24:42.480 --> 00:24:43.759
<v Speaker 4>With the amount of time and money you have?

472
00:24:44.359 --> 00:24:44.640
<v Speaker 3>Yeah?

473
00:24:44.799 --> 00:24:47.240
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I saw one of the ships you would have

474
00:24:47.279 --> 00:24:51.160
<v Speaker 2>worked on when I was at the presidio when was

475
00:24:51.160 --> 00:24:53.400
<v Speaker 2>that twenty twenty three from Galaxy Quest?

476
00:24:53.440 --> 00:24:56.799
<v Speaker 3>The protector is hanging there.

477
00:24:57.000 --> 00:24:57.559
<v Speaker 4>It is huge.

478
00:24:57.599 --> 00:24:59.480
<v Speaker 2>I was as much bigger than I expected it to be.

479
00:24:59.599 --> 00:25:02.160
<v Speaker 2>I think, you know, I'm a big obviously a big

480
00:25:02.200 --> 00:25:04.079
<v Speaker 2>fan of behind the scenes stuff, but I've always sort

481
00:25:04.079 --> 00:25:04.880
<v Speaker 2>of taken aback when.

482
00:25:04.799 --> 00:25:07.920
<v Speaker 4>I see these things in reality because they're.

483
00:25:08.519 --> 00:25:11.240
<v Speaker 5>Right, okayt Yeah, Because there was the there was a

484
00:25:11.279 --> 00:25:14.720
<v Speaker 5>smaller one about three feet long that was built as

485
00:25:14.759 --> 00:25:20.359
<v Speaker 5>the TV version of the uh yeah and uh and

486
00:25:20.400 --> 00:25:24.319
<v Speaker 5>so it had a little bit lower resolution detail, so

487
00:25:24.359 --> 00:25:28.839
<v Speaker 5>that it looked like a you know, a TV era model,

488
00:25:28.880 --> 00:25:32.079
<v Speaker 5>and then the big Galaxy Quest had to look like

489
00:25:32.160 --> 00:25:36.640
<v Speaker 5>it was a really actual, big existing ship and so

490
00:25:36.720 --> 00:25:38.720
<v Speaker 5>that you know, so we we scaled it up and

491
00:25:38.880 --> 00:25:41.839
<v Speaker 5>added detail and all the deep weathering and that sort

492
00:25:41.839 --> 00:25:42.799
<v Speaker 5>of thing that goes into it.

493
00:25:43.839 --> 00:25:47.759
<v Speaker 4>That's really cool. And that was a very fun project too. Yeah,

494
00:25:47.839 --> 00:25:49.079
<v Speaker 4>I was just gonna ask that.

495
00:25:49.200 --> 00:25:52.400
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, it tied together, of course, the Star Trek and

496
00:25:52.519 --> 00:25:55.240
<v Speaker 5>Me and the Star Wars and me and and and

497
00:25:55.319 --> 00:25:59.400
<v Speaker 5>it was being and it was a parody, so there was.

498
00:25:59.640 --> 00:26:02.119
<v Speaker 5>That was one of the most fun projects I think

499
00:26:02.160 --> 00:26:02.920
<v Speaker 5>I worked on there.

500
00:26:03.000 --> 00:26:04.960
<v Speaker 4>That and probably Pirates of the Caribbean.

501
00:26:05.039 --> 00:26:06.720
<v Speaker 5>I mean, they had a lot of projects that were

502
00:26:06.839 --> 00:26:10.279
<v Speaker 5>good fun for different reasons, you know, Star Wars of course,

503
00:26:10.519 --> 00:26:13.599
<v Speaker 5>but you know, Galaxy Quest was one that was just

504
00:26:13.640 --> 00:26:16.039
<v Speaker 5>so much fun because of just.

505
00:26:16.079 --> 00:26:17.079
<v Speaker 4>The subject matter.

506
00:26:17.119 --> 00:26:20.559
<v Speaker 5>And it was obviously written by people who love Star Trek,

507
00:26:20.640 --> 00:26:22.240
<v Speaker 5>so they weren't making fun of Starguars.

508
00:26:22.240 --> 00:26:25.240
<v Speaker 4>They were having fun with it. Yeah, it's sort of

509
00:26:25.240 --> 00:26:27.160
<v Speaker 4>one of the best Star Trek movies in a way.

510
00:26:27.200 --> 00:26:27.400
<v Speaker 4>For me.

511
00:26:27.480 --> 00:26:29.079
<v Speaker 2>I just I know it's not Star Trek, but I

512
00:26:29.279 --> 00:26:31.640
<v Speaker 2>just I've shown it to my kids who have no

513
00:26:31.720 --> 00:26:33.720
<v Speaker 2>real reference. At the time, I had no real reference

514
00:26:33.759 --> 00:26:37.240
<v Speaker 2>to Star Trek itself. And in subsequent years they sort

515
00:26:37.240 --> 00:26:39.079
<v Speaker 2>of worked out what Star Trek is, you know, and

516
00:26:39.079 --> 00:26:40.960
<v Speaker 2>they're like, oh, that's where that comes from. You know,

517
00:26:40.960 --> 00:26:42.880
<v Speaker 2>they saw it back to front. But did you get

518
00:26:42.920 --> 00:26:45.039
<v Speaker 2>a sense that it was the director and that was

519
00:26:45.079 --> 00:26:46.519
<v Speaker 2>a Dean paraso, wasn't it?

520
00:26:47.440 --> 00:26:49.000
<v Speaker 4>I don't recall.

521
00:26:50.039 --> 00:26:51.480
<v Speaker 3>Did he ever come into the model shop?

522
00:26:51.759 --> 00:26:52.319
<v Speaker 4>You didn't know?

523
00:26:52.400 --> 00:26:53.240
<v Speaker 3>You didn't meet the director.

524
00:26:53.319 --> 00:26:56.599
<v Speaker 4>Now I didn't meet the director. No, some directors did.

525
00:26:56.960 --> 00:26:58.960
<v Speaker 5>We had a number of directors that came to the

526
00:26:58.960 --> 00:27:02.440
<v Speaker 5>shop and sometimes they and sometimes it was all shot

527
00:27:03.079 --> 00:27:09.759
<v Speaker 5>by our our directors of photography, and the director wasn't

528
00:27:09.799 --> 00:27:12.640
<v Speaker 5>It was viewed the stuff from from a remote location.

529
00:27:14.519 --> 00:27:17.240
<v Speaker 2>And did you did the villain ship on that show

530
00:27:17.279 --> 00:27:18.000
<v Speaker 2>as wellther was it?

531
00:27:18.079 --> 00:27:21.039
<v Speaker 3>Sarahs Yes, Sarah, that's a very.

532
00:27:20.759 --> 00:27:24.160
<v Speaker 2>Very different design, far more kind of organic and.

533
00:27:24.200 --> 00:27:27.319
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, and that one was we had a team that

534
00:27:27.480 --> 00:27:30.599
<v Speaker 5>it was all sculpted in clay. And again it was

535
00:27:31.079 --> 00:27:33.920
<v Speaker 5>what eight nine feet long or something like that, and

536
00:27:34.000 --> 00:27:36.960
<v Speaker 5>it had a structure within it. But then all the

537
00:27:37.000 --> 00:27:40.599
<v Speaker 5>detail was we just sat there and you know, sculpted

538
00:27:40.599 --> 00:27:43.960
<v Speaker 5>the clay to make all the scales and spikes and.

539
00:27:43.799 --> 00:27:45.720
<v Speaker 4>You know weirdness on it. Uh.

540
00:27:46.720 --> 00:27:48.359
<v Speaker 5>And and then we took a mold off of it

541
00:27:48.400 --> 00:27:53.920
<v Speaker 5>and cast it in fiberglass. But the yeah, the original sculptive,

542
00:27:53.960 --> 00:27:56.240
<v Speaker 5>it was all just you know, oil clay.

543
00:27:57.400 --> 00:28:01.160
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, right, A very different sort of approach to doing

544
00:28:01.160 --> 00:28:04.480
<v Speaker 2>a spacecraft that you know we have because yeah, you're

545
00:28:04.480 --> 00:28:07.519
<v Speaker 2>going for like detailed and symmetry, and.

546
00:28:08.480 --> 00:28:11.720
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, I actually have a little trouble with that.

547
00:28:12.079 --> 00:28:13.680
<v Speaker 4>I'm much much better with.

548
00:28:15.680 --> 00:28:21.359
<v Speaker 5>Rectlinear things like you know, or mechanical things. Doing organic

549
00:28:21.400 --> 00:28:25.359
<v Speaker 5>stuff is always a challenge for me. And trying to

550
00:28:25.359 --> 00:28:30.559
<v Speaker 5>make things look random is is tough for me because

551
00:28:30.640 --> 00:28:34.240
<v Speaker 5>I sort of innately want to do, you know, keep

552
00:28:34.279 --> 00:28:38.640
<v Speaker 5>things regular. I have a funny story about that from

553
00:28:38.799 --> 00:28:39.279
<v Speaker 5>Pirates of.

554
00:28:39.279 --> 00:28:40.400
<v Speaker 4>The Caribbean.

555
00:28:41.960 --> 00:28:44.279
<v Speaker 5>Was we had to glue barnacles on the bottom of

556
00:28:44.319 --> 00:28:48.799
<v Speaker 5>the pirate ship. The Black Pearl was probably twenty five

557
00:28:48.920 --> 00:28:51.680
<v Speaker 5>thirty feet long, and so there's a scene where it

558
00:28:51.759 --> 00:28:54.519
<v Speaker 5>rolls over in the water and they wanted to see

559
00:28:54.559 --> 00:28:56.960
<v Speaker 5>barnacles on the on the on the bottom of the ship.

560
00:28:57.920 --> 00:29:00.079
<v Speaker 5>And so I'm sitting there with Randy Ottenberg and a

561
00:29:00.119 --> 00:29:04.400
<v Speaker 5>few others. R. Randy is a fantastic scenic, and she's

562
00:29:04.440 --> 00:29:10.799
<v Speaker 5>really good at random organic looking things, and I'm gluing

563
00:29:10.839 --> 00:29:13.480
<v Speaker 5>mine on. I'm trying really hard to keep them, you know,

564
00:29:13.759 --> 00:29:17.319
<v Speaker 5>sort of random clusters of of of of of things.

565
00:29:17.400 --> 00:29:21.440
<v Speaker 5>And then I stepped back, and my random clusters are

566
00:29:21.440 --> 00:29:24.920
<v Speaker 5>all equally spaced along the side the whole and I

567
00:29:24.920 --> 00:29:26.759
<v Speaker 5>look over at hers, and hers just looked like they

568
00:29:26.759 --> 00:29:31.559
<v Speaker 5>grew there, and Randy, please help me out here.

569
00:29:34.240 --> 00:29:36.480
<v Speaker 4>It was it was so challenging.

570
00:29:36.720 --> 00:29:40.000
<v Speaker 5>I'm trying so hard to do it, and it was

571
00:29:40.599 --> 00:29:45.039
<v Speaker 5>coming out so perfectly regular that I.

572
00:29:45.000 --> 00:29:48.599
<v Speaker 2>Saw the pattern that wiring must be very difficult. Yeah,

573
00:29:48.680 --> 00:29:50.759
<v Speaker 2>you're so used to doing that, it must be very tough.

574
00:29:51.079 --> 00:29:51.279
<v Speaker 4>Yeah.

575
00:29:51.319 --> 00:29:53.960
<v Speaker 5>And Sarah's was interesting that way because it was all

576
00:29:54.000 --> 00:29:56.920
<v Speaker 5>like just clay, and so I wasn't making straight lines.

577
00:29:56.920 --> 00:30:01.680
<v Speaker 5>It was all curves and with grapes, striations and things

578
00:30:01.680 --> 00:30:01.880
<v Speaker 5>in it.

579
00:30:02.640 --> 00:30:05.720
<v Speaker 4>But it was great, very cool. Yeah.

580
00:30:05.759 --> 00:30:07.640
<v Speaker 2>Well it's nice, always nice when you have to sort

581
00:30:07.640 --> 00:30:10.160
<v Speaker 2>of learn a new discipline, isn't it. And kind of

582
00:30:10.359 --> 00:30:13.799
<v Speaker 2>you know, talk about the brain being you know, elastic,

583
00:30:14.279 --> 00:30:15.960
<v Speaker 2>and you know, you just want to kind of create

584
00:30:16.000 --> 00:30:20.160
<v Speaker 2>a new a few neural pathways into a new into

585
00:30:20.160 --> 00:30:21.920
<v Speaker 2>a new zone. Do you still do you still find

586
00:30:21.960 --> 00:30:24.759
<v Speaker 2>the sort of model making meditative? I guess is the

587
00:30:24.759 --> 00:30:26.480
<v Speaker 2>word I'm looking for, because as a kid, I'm sure

588
00:30:26.519 --> 00:30:28.319
<v Speaker 2>I can imagine you sat in your room with like

589
00:30:28.359 --> 00:30:32.240
<v Speaker 2>a desk, lamp and magnifying glass and maybe there for hours.

590
00:30:32.279 --> 00:30:35.519
<v Speaker 2>You know, it's very different to what kids do today.

591
00:30:35.880 --> 00:30:38.880
<v Speaker 2>But do you do you find a sort of meditative

592
00:30:39.240 --> 00:30:40.400
<v Speaker 2>state that you get into and.

593
00:30:40.519 --> 00:30:41.319
<v Speaker 4>Now you're working.

594
00:30:42.119 --> 00:30:45.359
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, it's funny. Steve Garley asked me one day what

595
00:30:45.440 --> 00:30:47.880
<v Speaker 5>I did for Harby's. That was early on when I

596
00:30:47.880 --> 00:30:50.440
<v Speaker 5>started there, and I said, I build models.

597
00:30:50.799 --> 00:30:52.160
<v Speaker 4>And he was like, this is my.

598
00:30:53.799 --> 00:30:57.799
<v Speaker 5>Because he came from a design background, and so I

599
00:30:57.799 --> 00:30:59.759
<v Speaker 5>guess he didn't build models for fun.

600
00:31:00.799 --> 00:31:04.279
<v Speaker 4>And so yeah, I still build models today.

601
00:31:04.440 --> 00:31:07.599
<v Speaker 5>I have a few of them, a few projects going

602
00:31:07.680 --> 00:31:10.799
<v Speaker 5>right now. But it is it is nice to be

603
00:31:10.799 --> 00:31:12.759
<v Speaker 5>able to kind of have the time to just sort

604
00:31:12.799 --> 00:31:18.400
<v Speaker 5>of get into that flow of just making it and

605
00:31:18.400 --> 00:31:21.599
<v Speaker 5>and and you're gluing the parts and shaping the pieces.

606
00:31:21.720 --> 00:31:26.480
<v Speaker 5>And it's one of the things about il M that

607
00:31:26.640 --> 00:31:28.319
<v Speaker 5>was so good for me was it was it was

608
00:31:28.400 --> 00:31:33.000
<v Speaker 5>like a candy land of learning new things. And if

609
00:31:33.000 --> 00:31:35.519
<v Speaker 5>I you know, if I didn't know how to do it.

610
00:31:35.559 --> 00:31:38.759
<v Speaker 5>There was somebody that did, and so they I could

611
00:31:38.799 --> 00:31:40.559
<v Speaker 5>go ask them and they would teach me and show me.

612
00:31:40.759 --> 00:31:41.480
<v Speaker 4>I mean I learned.

613
00:31:41.920 --> 00:31:45.000
<v Speaker 5>I learned machining, you know, how to use you know,

614
00:31:45.079 --> 00:31:49.759
<v Speaker 5>the mill in the lathe and molding and casting. You know,

615
00:31:49.839 --> 00:31:54.079
<v Speaker 5>there's there was so many different techniques that it's like

616
00:31:54.240 --> 00:31:56.200
<v Speaker 5>I've never done that before, but hey, let's try it,

617
00:31:56.839 --> 00:31:59.079
<v Speaker 5>and somebody would have advice on how to do it,

618
00:31:59.119 --> 00:32:00.839
<v Speaker 5>and you and you learned how to do it.

619
00:32:00.880 --> 00:32:03.240
<v Speaker 4>It was just I just ate that up. That was

620
00:32:03.839 --> 00:32:04.519
<v Speaker 4>That was just.

621
00:32:05.359 --> 00:32:07.079
<v Speaker 5>You know, it was like having living in a in

622
00:32:07.119 --> 00:32:10.920
<v Speaker 5>a in a fairy tale to have the opportunity and

623
00:32:10.960 --> 00:32:16.920
<v Speaker 5>the encouragement to try anything and everything. So yeah, it

624
00:32:16.960 --> 00:32:19.559
<v Speaker 5>was it was. It was a wonderful place to work.

625
00:32:20.680 --> 00:32:24.759
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I've spoken to Lawn Peterson. Who did you ever

626
00:32:24.799 --> 00:32:25.799
<v Speaker 2>work alongside Lawn?

627
00:32:26.319 --> 00:32:29.240
<v Speaker 4>Yes? In fact, on that first commercial I worked with him.

628
00:32:30.359 --> 00:32:34.480
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, good guy Lawn. And I wonder if like,

629
00:32:34.839 --> 00:32:37.240
<v Speaker 2>if there's anything of those people you work with, like

630
00:32:37.279 --> 00:32:40.240
<v Speaker 2>Steve Gorley and Lawn Peterson, that is that you would

631
00:32:40.279 --> 00:32:43.279
<v Speaker 2>sort of regard as specifically theirs, you know, like oh,

632
00:32:43.319 --> 00:32:45.640
<v Speaker 2>that's Lawn's kind of thing, or that's Steve's kind of thing,

633
00:32:45.640 --> 00:32:48.759
<v Speaker 2>because I know Lawn talks about that kind of boiler

634
00:32:48.799 --> 00:32:52.640
<v Speaker 2>plate idea, you know, making sure the piping is making

635
00:32:52.759 --> 00:32:55.759
<v Speaker 2>sense on on a spaceship and all that stuff. Is that, Yeah, gone,

636
00:32:55.839 --> 00:32:57.759
<v Speaker 2>what what do you think about those guys?

637
00:32:59.759 --> 00:33:03.319
<v Speaker 5>Steve, he was just a fantastic model maker, and I

638
00:33:03.400 --> 00:33:07.000
<v Speaker 5>recall him really enjoyed like he he seemed to have

639
00:33:07.039 --> 00:33:11.279
<v Speaker 5>an affinity for like trains too.

640
00:33:11.079 --> 00:33:12.720
<v Speaker 4>Because he he.

641
00:33:14.039 --> 00:33:17.240
<v Speaker 5>For the longest time had like the blueprints on his

642
00:33:17.359 --> 00:33:20.759
<v Speaker 5>wall of the train from Back to the Future that

643
00:33:20.839 --> 00:33:24.119
<v Speaker 5>they did. I think that was something that really appealed

644
00:33:24.119 --> 00:33:31.279
<v Speaker 5>to him. He and uh uh Irack Heeler was one

645
00:33:31.319 --> 00:33:33.720
<v Speaker 5>that I kind of sat at his knee and learned

646
00:33:33.720 --> 00:33:39.000
<v Speaker 5>a lot about making patterns, uh carving patterns with techniques

647
00:33:39.039 --> 00:33:41.759
<v Speaker 5>and tricks and stuff. And he was way into trains

648
00:33:41.799 --> 00:33:48.720
<v Speaker 5>as well. He actually did some things for some some

649
00:33:48.759 --> 00:33:52.880
<v Speaker 5>special cars and stuff for for some oak age train

650
00:33:53.119 --> 00:33:57.759
<v Speaker 5>sets and things. And then Lord Peterson was always he was.

651
00:33:58.000 --> 00:34:01.440
<v Speaker 5>He was sort of known for coming up with unusual

652
00:34:01.599 --> 00:34:08.760
<v Speaker 5>choices for uh materials to use. I mean, yeah, that's

653
00:34:08.880 --> 00:34:11.920
<v Speaker 5>what I and ground up walnut shells seemed to be

654
00:34:11.920 --> 00:34:14.039
<v Speaker 5>one that came up a lot Oh.

655
00:34:14.039 --> 00:34:15.639
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, he spoke to me about that. Wasn't that for

656
00:34:15.800 --> 00:34:16.800
<v Speaker 3>a wild West?

657
00:34:16.840 --> 00:34:17.159
<v Speaker 4>I think?

658
00:34:17.760 --> 00:34:21.639
<v Speaker 5>And they got used for a lot of other things too. Yeah,

659
00:34:21.719 --> 00:34:23.800
<v Speaker 5>and maybe he wasn't the only one. I remember Bill

660
00:34:23.840 --> 00:34:26.920
<v Speaker 5>George showing me a model of it was a very

661
00:34:26.960 --> 00:34:28.000
<v Speaker 5>small model.

662
00:34:27.800 --> 00:34:33.039
<v Speaker 4>Of the Was it the Devastator? It was Darth's Darth

663
00:34:33.079 --> 00:34:37.559
<v Speaker 4>Vader's Superstar Destroyer executed. That's what it was called.

664
00:34:37.599 --> 00:34:43.239
<v Speaker 5>Sorry, Yeah, and the they needed a shot of it

665
00:34:43.400 --> 00:34:45.480
<v Speaker 5>like way in the distance, so they made one that

666
00:34:45.599 --> 00:34:48.400
<v Speaker 5>was maybe a foot long or something like that, and

667
00:34:48.519 --> 00:34:51.519
<v Speaker 5>for detail on that, they covered it in walnut shells,

668
00:34:51.519 --> 00:34:55.840
<v Speaker 5>so it was just this lots of little shadows, but

669
00:34:56.159 --> 00:34:58.159
<v Speaker 5>he couldn't make out what it was, but for a

670
00:34:58.199 --> 00:35:02.960
<v Speaker 5>distance shot it worked. I remember Lauren also came up

671
00:35:03.000 --> 00:35:09.559
<v Speaker 5>with using salt for waterfalls, I believe after using sugar

672
00:35:09.639 --> 00:35:14.360
<v Speaker 5>and finding out that it drew drew ants, so switching after.

673
00:35:14.119 --> 00:35:18.719
<v Speaker 2>That, And I guess that would have been on the

674
00:35:18.719 --> 00:35:21.360
<v Speaker 2>Phantom Menace when that the water. Yes, that was on

675
00:35:21.400 --> 00:35:23.920
<v Speaker 2>other pictures as well. But you said you worked on

676
00:35:24.039 --> 00:35:25.719
<v Speaker 2>the Star Wars movie as well, So tell me about

677
00:35:25.719 --> 00:35:28.760
<v Speaker 2>that experience working on on the Star Wars film.

678
00:35:29.639 --> 00:35:33.199
<v Speaker 5>Well, it started off I was in the art department,

679
00:35:33.679 --> 00:35:39.920
<v Speaker 5>uh for as a concept model maker. So that was

680
00:35:39.960 --> 00:35:42.519
<v Speaker 5>when Steve Golly came to me and said, hey, they

681
00:35:42.559 --> 00:35:45.360
<v Speaker 5>want you up at the ranch to to do to

682
00:35:45.360 --> 00:35:48.320
<v Speaker 5>do work for the new films, and uh so.

683
00:35:48.639 --> 00:35:48.760
<v Speaker 1>Uh.

684
00:35:49.880 --> 00:35:52.360
<v Speaker 5>I showed up at the ranch my first day and

685
00:35:52.559 --> 00:35:58.280
<v Speaker 5>I met Doug Chang and the first, I want to say,

686
00:35:58.280 --> 00:36:02.679
<v Speaker 5>the first model I was a son mind was the

687
00:36:02.800 --> 00:36:08.159
<v Speaker 5>Naboo Fighter, the end one, and I remember getting the

688
00:36:08.199 --> 00:36:10.920
<v Speaker 5>design and looking at it and going, this doesn't look

689
00:36:11.159 --> 00:36:16.159
<v Speaker 5>anything like Star Wars because I, as I was all

690
00:36:16.159 --> 00:36:19.840
<v Speaker 5>indoctrinated into the boilerplate technology as they called it.

691
00:36:20.039 --> 00:36:25.559
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, yeah, here was this swoopy, shiny, clean.

692
00:36:26.840 --> 00:36:29.400
<v Speaker 5>And I was like, oh okay, And of course they

693
00:36:29.440 --> 00:36:32.159
<v Speaker 5>explained it as like this is pre war so like

694
00:36:32.280 --> 00:36:40.039
<v Speaker 5>nineteen twenties automobiles, you know, just these swooping pontoon fendered ships,

695
00:36:40.079 --> 00:36:44.599
<v Speaker 5>you know, boats, land, yachts, whatever, And in this case,

696
00:36:44.639 --> 00:36:50.440
<v Speaker 5>this was pre war spaceship technology. So that was that

697
00:36:50.559 --> 00:36:52.920
<v Speaker 5>was my first introduction into it and.

698
00:36:53.320 --> 00:36:58.239
<v Speaker 4>What was really tough to get used to it.

699
00:36:58.360 --> 00:37:02.400
<v Speaker 5>First there was the ranch. We were on the third

700
00:37:02.400 --> 00:37:05.840
<v Speaker 5>floor of the main house at the ranch. The main

701
00:37:05.880 --> 00:37:09.079
<v Speaker 5>house is not designed to be a model shop. It

702
00:37:09.920 --> 00:37:15.760
<v Speaker 5>had dark blue carpeting, lovely paneled walls. We had dust

703
00:37:15.960 --> 00:37:21.440
<v Speaker 5>with plants on them. And every day John Goodson and

704
00:37:21.480 --> 00:37:26.559
<v Speaker 5>I would sit there making just snow drifts of plastic

705
00:37:26.679 --> 00:37:30.480
<v Speaker 5>chips and things on the floor and bits of you know,

706
00:37:30.559 --> 00:37:34.800
<v Speaker 5>sanding dust all over everything, and every every evening somebody

707
00:37:34.880 --> 00:37:37.000
<v Speaker 5>would come in and they would vacuum it all up

708
00:37:37.079 --> 00:37:40.360
<v Speaker 5>every day and we'd come back to a nice clean desk.

709
00:37:40.199 --> 00:37:43.480
<v Speaker 4>And it just felt wrong. Yeah, it was.

710
00:37:45.360 --> 00:37:47.760
<v Speaker 5>And so you know, over time we ended up we

711
00:37:47.840 --> 00:37:51.079
<v Speaker 5>built a spray booth and some other things to try

712
00:37:51.159 --> 00:37:52.119
<v Speaker 5>and keep it cleaner.

713
00:37:52.760 --> 00:37:53.760
<v Speaker 4>But it was, it was.

714
00:37:53.880 --> 00:37:56.800
<v Speaker 5>It was a very unusual environment to be building models

715
00:37:56.800 --> 00:38:01.199
<v Speaker 5>in because building models is a messy job and you

716
00:38:01.199 --> 00:38:04.599
<v Speaker 5>don't want to be ruining the This is beautiful house

717
00:38:04.679 --> 00:38:05.360
<v Speaker 5>that we were in.

718
00:38:05.480 --> 00:38:07.559
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, it's a stunning place, isn't it really is?

719
00:38:07.679 --> 00:38:07.880
<v Speaker 4>Yeah?

720
00:38:07.920 --> 00:38:11.159
<v Speaker 2>But you said you worked as a concept model maker

721
00:38:11.199 --> 00:38:14.679
<v Speaker 2>on that was that? Did you ever consider that kind

722
00:38:14.679 --> 00:38:18.480
<v Speaker 2>of step back compared to making stuff.

723
00:38:18.199 --> 00:38:20.719
<v Speaker 4>For the screw? Not at all?

724
00:38:20.760 --> 00:38:23.960
<v Speaker 5>Actually, And and actually I did both on the Star

725
00:38:24.039 --> 00:38:28.679
<v Speaker 5>Trek Star Wars, but I was I couldn't.

726
00:38:28.760 --> 00:38:31.400
<v Speaker 4>They wouldn't allow me to have two credits. So I

727
00:38:31.440 --> 00:38:34.079
<v Speaker 4>had to choose the one. So I chose the concept

728
00:38:34.119 --> 00:38:37.599
<v Speaker 4>model one. But so what is that exactly involved? Then?

729
00:38:37.639 --> 00:38:39.800
<v Speaker 2>So you've got this drawing from Doug Chang and you

730
00:38:39.920 --> 00:38:43.039
<v Speaker 2>just have to find the three dimensional yeah.

731
00:38:43.239 --> 00:38:44.320
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, and he would design.

732
00:38:44.519 --> 00:38:47.079
<v Speaker 5>He would say, oh, this is the important this is

733
00:38:47.079 --> 00:38:50.119
<v Speaker 5>what how it was inspired, or here's what the details

734
00:38:50.119 --> 00:38:53.760
<v Speaker 5>that are important to me or important to George and uh,

735
00:38:53.840 --> 00:38:57.400
<v Speaker 5>and then we'd start off doing like a quick just

736
00:38:57.559 --> 00:39:01.960
<v Speaker 5>foam model something all you know, maybe you know, five

737
00:39:01.960 --> 00:39:04.119
<v Speaker 5>inches or something, and just do a few of them,

738
00:39:04.119 --> 00:39:06.519
<v Speaker 5>shape them out of foam and then uh. And then

739
00:39:06.559 --> 00:39:08.599
<v Speaker 5>we'd have our meetings with Georgie every Friday, and he

740
00:39:08.599 --> 00:39:11.199
<v Speaker 5>would talk about what he liked or what he didn't like,

741
00:39:11.280 --> 00:39:15.559
<v Speaker 5>and then we'd eventually roll into doing a larger model

742
00:39:16.440 --> 00:39:17.960
<v Speaker 5>that was more finished, had details.

743
00:39:18.599 --> 00:39:23.159
<v Speaker 4>And I have to say this, that was one of the.

744
00:39:22.480 --> 00:39:24.880
<v Speaker 5>One of the times when I was really allowed to

745
00:39:24.920 --> 00:39:32.840
<v Speaker 5>sort of indulge myself in the details. Because the we

746
00:39:32.880 --> 00:39:35.559
<v Speaker 5>came up with the term of three D blueprints. Basically

747
00:39:35.599 --> 00:39:38.559
<v Speaker 5>what we were doing was making it. Rather than making

748
00:39:38.679 --> 00:39:42.599
<v Speaker 5>very loose models, we were making three D version, you know,

749
00:39:42.760 --> 00:39:45.400
<v Speaker 5>versions of what was going to be used by the

750
00:39:45.440 --> 00:39:48.920
<v Speaker 5>computer department, by the set department, by the model shop,

751
00:39:49.840 --> 00:39:51.800
<v Speaker 5>and they all needed to match. So if we had

752
00:39:51.800 --> 00:39:54.719
<v Speaker 5>a really loose model, then there might be some interpretation

753
00:39:54.840 --> 00:39:56.079
<v Speaker 5>that didn't match up.

754
00:39:56.719 --> 00:40:00.159
<v Speaker 4>And so the we ended up get.

755
00:40:00.239 --> 00:40:05.000
<v Speaker 5>The luxury of kind of detailing them out to where

756
00:40:05.000 --> 00:40:06.800
<v Speaker 5>we almost wanted them. There were some times there were

757
00:40:06.840 --> 00:40:08.920
<v Speaker 5>off Oftentimes he said, I wish I could have a

758
00:40:08.960 --> 00:40:14.960
<v Speaker 5>lot more time on that. Funny story, one of the sculptors,

759
00:40:15.559 --> 00:40:19.519
<v Speaker 5>Robert Barnes, was doing a maquette and he he was

760
00:40:19.559 --> 00:40:21.280
<v Speaker 5>one that he would work on it right up to

761
00:40:21.320 --> 00:40:24.360
<v Speaker 5>the very last minute, and he was never done. And

762
00:40:24.400 --> 00:40:26.920
<v Speaker 5>so one model we actually had to pick up off

763
00:40:26.960 --> 00:40:29.199
<v Speaker 5>of his desk while he's still sculpting it and take

764
00:40:29.239 --> 00:40:31.920
<v Speaker 5>it down the hall to the meeting because George was

765
00:40:31.920 --> 00:40:33.800
<v Speaker 5>coming in like any moment now and he had to

766
00:40:33.800 --> 00:40:34.960
<v Speaker 5>be there for it.

767
00:40:35.079 --> 00:40:38.840
<v Speaker 4>So and that was the thing I minded to put

768
00:40:38.840 --> 00:40:41.800
<v Speaker 4>all the detail you possibly could into these things. Couldn't

769
00:40:41.840 --> 00:40:42.760
<v Speaker 4>let go of his baby.

770
00:40:42.840 --> 00:40:45.360
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you're right though in saying that, you know you

771
00:40:45.400 --> 00:40:47.159
<v Speaker 2>were doing this model that was like a three D

772
00:40:47.480 --> 00:40:50.760
<v Speaker 2>blueprint because in those films, and that film in particular,

773
00:40:50.920 --> 00:40:52.519
<v Speaker 2>I'm thinking back now, I haven't seen it in a

774
00:40:52.519 --> 00:40:56.840
<v Speaker 2>few years, but the full scale versions that the actors

775
00:40:56.840 --> 00:41:01.440
<v Speaker 2>are sitting in do match the model versions, the CG versions.

776
00:41:01.880 --> 00:41:03.360
<v Speaker 2>You don't really know where the line is on.

777
00:41:03.320 --> 00:41:08.360
<v Speaker 3>A lot of that stuff. Good Yeah, well yeah, I

778
00:41:08.400 --> 00:41:09.559
<v Speaker 3>mean I was in it, you know, I was.

779
00:41:09.679 --> 00:41:11.199
<v Speaker 2>I was not in it, but I was in that

780
00:41:11.239 --> 00:41:13.920
<v Speaker 2>world when I was watching it as what was I

781
00:41:14.000 --> 00:41:17.039
<v Speaker 2>eighteen when that came out. I think I love those

782
00:41:17.079 --> 00:41:19.719
<v Speaker 2>designs to this day. I think Doug's work is fantastic,

783
00:41:19.800 --> 00:41:22.760
<v Speaker 2>and a lot of that design team's work has really

784
00:41:23.079 --> 00:41:24.159
<v Speaker 2>stood the test at time.

785
00:41:24.519 --> 00:41:28.320
<v Speaker 5>And it was really nice because the well, for instance,

786
00:41:28.360 --> 00:41:30.960
<v Speaker 5>Doug was really nice about letting you kind of take

787
00:41:30.960 --> 00:41:33.199
<v Speaker 5>the ball and roll run with it. He would give

788
00:41:33.239 --> 00:41:37.679
<v Speaker 5>you what was important to the design and then and

789
00:41:37.719 --> 00:41:40.599
<v Speaker 5>then trust to you to fill it out to do

790
00:41:40.639 --> 00:41:43.039
<v Speaker 5>the rest of it. Parts that weren't you know, they

791
00:41:43.039 --> 00:41:44.960
<v Speaker 5>didn't always have drawings of everything, Like most of the

792
00:41:45.039 --> 00:41:48.920
<v Speaker 5>robots didn't have feet, or they had really rough the

793
00:41:49.039 --> 00:41:52.000
<v Speaker 5>sort of shading bits that sort of looked like a foot.

794
00:41:52.400 --> 00:41:54.360
<v Speaker 5>So so I got to design the feet for all

795
00:41:54.400 --> 00:41:57.920
<v Speaker 5>the robots that I did, So I put different different

796
00:41:57.920 --> 00:42:01.559
<v Speaker 5>shoes on different robots for different It's like the Battle

797
00:42:01.599 --> 00:42:05.360
<v Speaker 5>Droid they're wearing spats because they felt like they were

798
00:42:05.360 --> 00:42:10.960
<v Speaker 5>more sort of like show you know, show soldiers. And

799
00:42:11.599 --> 00:42:15.960
<v Speaker 5>then the Super Battle Droids have combat boots, and the

800
00:42:15.960 --> 00:42:19.360
<v Speaker 5>the Pit Droids have sneakers, like high top sneakers.

801
00:42:21.239 --> 00:42:24.920
<v Speaker 4>Those are sort of like things I got to do. Yeah,

802
00:42:24.920 --> 00:42:25.719
<v Speaker 4>that's cool.

803
00:42:26.039 --> 00:42:29.760
<v Speaker 2>You know, you've already got this language of the universe,

804
00:42:29.800 --> 00:42:33.400
<v Speaker 2>the styles universe, and then you're putting on another layer

805
00:42:33.480 --> 00:42:36.360
<v Speaker 2>of another design language on top of that in a way,

806
00:42:38.039 --> 00:42:40.119
<v Speaker 2>and were the sort of rules you felt you had

807
00:42:40.159 --> 00:42:44.320
<v Speaker 2>to obey or well, I suppose you've already said it.

808
00:42:44.320 --> 00:42:45.679
<v Speaker 2>Really that you had a bit of you know, you

809
00:42:45.719 --> 00:42:48.519
<v Speaker 2>had a bit of leeway to add to your own

810
00:42:48.599 --> 00:42:49.559
<v Speaker 2>flair to it if you like.

811
00:42:50.360 --> 00:42:50.599
<v Speaker 4>Yeah.

812
00:42:50.639 --> 00:42:53.559
<v Speaker 5>Well, and like I said, Doug was very clear about

813
00:42:53.760 --> 00:42:58.639
<v Speaker 5>things that were important or to keep an aesthetic style

814
00:42:58.760 --> 00:43:03.599
<v Speaker 5>with something like the The Battle Droids, for instance, were

815
00:43:05.159 --> 00:43:10.039
<v Speaker 5>inspired by the the Skeletons from Jason and the Argonauts,

816
00:43:10.679 --> 00:43:13.960
<v Speaker 5>so they wanted to have this sort of gaunt thinness

817
00:43:13.960 --> 00:43:16.760
<v Speaker 5>to them, sort of skeletal looking. They were originally bone

818
00:43:16.760 --> 00:43:19.760
<v Speaker 5>white and then they changed it to us and color.

819
00:43:20.199 --> 00:43:23.920
<v Speaker 5>And the Super Battle Droids there was some inspira inspiration

820
00:43:24.000 --> 00:43:26.599
<v Speaker 5>with blades. So if you look at the forearm, it

821
00:43:26.719 --> 00:43:29.519
<v Speaker 5>kind of has this sort of you know, knife like

822
00:43:29.679 --> 00:43:32.719
<v Speaker 5>edge on it. Yeah, those were sort of things that

823
00:43:32.760 --> 00:43:34.840
<v Speaker 5>he would kind of give you and let you run

824
00:43:34.880 --> 00:43:38.480
<v Speaker 5>with it, and and and you know add that into

825
00:43:38.480 --> 00:43:39.639
<v Speaker 5>the to the rest of the model.

826
00:43:40.639 --> 00:43:41.159
<v Speaker 4>Mm hmmm.

827
00:43:41.679 --> 00:43:44.719
<v Speaker 2>So you worked making models for the screen, You've worked

828
00:43:44.800 --> 00:43:47.239
<v Speaker 2>in concept. I see that you've worked in the props

829
00:43:47.239 --> 00:43:48.800
<v Speaker 2>department as well on movies.

830
00:43:50.079 --> 00:43:53.079
<v Speaker 4>So yes, I've done some specialty props for things.

831
00:43:54.159 --> 00:43:56.519
<v Speaker 5>On the last Matrix movie, I got to do the pills,

832
00:44:00.119 --> 00:44:03.440
<v Speaker 5>and which was a sort of a strange little bit

833
00:44:03.480 --> 00:44:08.559
<v Speaker 5>to do. And they because the first pills I think

834
00:44:08.719 --> 00:44:10.639
<v Speaker 5>for the first films they came out that they wanted

835
00:44:10.719 --> 00:44:13.079
<v Speaker 5>they were gel tabs, and and that was sort of

836
00:44:13.079 --> 00:44:14.840
<v Speaker 5>a new thing, and so now they wanted something to

837
00:44:14.880 --> 00:44:17.920
<v Speaker 5>look different because gel tabs are very common now, and

838
00:44:17.960 --> 00:44:21.400
<v Speaker 5>so they wanted something that looked sort of metallic, and

839
00:44:21.480 --> 00:44:27.800
<v Speaker 5>so that's what inspired those. Did some some rubber rubber

840
00:44:27.800 --> 00:44:31.119
<v Speaker 5>ice cubes to get thrown into uh someone's face for

841
00:44:31.199 --> 00:44:33.320
<v Speaker 5>a movie, and other.

842
00:44:33.320 --> 00:44:35.079
<v Speaker 4>You know props like that.

843
00:44:36.039 --> 00:44:38.840
<v Speaker 5>One prop for commercial that I really enjoyed doing was

844
00:44:38.880 --> 00:44:40.239
<v Speaker 5>for a Nokia commercial.

845
00:44:40.760 --> 00:44:41.880
<v Speaker 4>It was to tie in with.

846
00:44:43.559 --> 00:44:46.079
<v Speaker 5>Men in Black and you remember the the Men in

847
00:44:46.159 --> 00:44:50.840
<v Speaker 5>Black worm guys. Yes, So the puppets for those are

848
00:44:50.880 --> 00:44:54.679
<v Speaker 5>actually oversized so that they can puppeteer them easier. So

849
00:44:54.920 --> 00:44:57.880
<v Speaker 5>for the commercial, they needed an oversized cell phone for

850
00:44:58.000 --> 00:45:01.920
<v Speaker 5>them to to use, and so I got to take

851
00:45:01.960 --> 00:45:05.320
<v Speaker 5>a Nokia phone and scale it up like eight times

852
00:45:05.400 --> 00:45:06.079
<v Speaker 5>or something like that.

853
00:45:06.119 --> 00:45:06.480
<v Speaker 4>It was.

854
00:45:08.639 --> 00:45:11.199
<v Speaker 5>Kind of comically huge, but it had to look like

855
00:45:11.199 --> 00:45:13.239
<v Speaker 5>a Nokia phone because it was an Nokia commercial. So

856
00:45:13.360 --> 00:45:16.039
<v Speaker 5>you see, you can't make it not look like the

857
00:45:16.320 --> 00:45:20.000
<v Speaker 5>actual product. So that was a lot of fun kind

858
00:45:20.000 --> 00:45:23.519
<v Speaker 5>of taking something and and going the other direction that

859
00:45:23.559 --> 00:45:26.280
<v Speaker 5>I'm used to going. It was like taking something small

860
00:45:26.280 --> 00:45:28.039
<v Speaker 5>and making it big. Is both some big and make

861
00:45:28.079 --> 00:45:28.440
<v Speaker 5>it small?

862
00:45:29.480 --> 00:45:29.719
<v Speaker 4>Yeah?

863
00:45:29.800 --> 00:45:33.000
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, what what did you think people see as a

864
00:45:33.159 --> 00:45:36.400
<v Speaker 2>kind of the John Duncan signature thing? That because it

865
00:45:36.400 --> 00:45:39.000
<v Speaker 2>sounds like you've you've done such a range of things.

866
00:45:39.760 --> 00:45:43.199
<v Speaker 2>But you know, there's bound to have been conversations without

867
00:45:43.199 --> 00:45:44.760
<v Speaker 2>you hearing the way people said, you know, who's the

868
00:45:44.800 --> 00:45:47.440
<v Speaker 2>guy for this? John Duncan could do this for you.

869
00:45:47.440 --> 00:45:48.880
<v Speaker 2>You know, what do you think that is?

870
00:45:50.280 --> 00:45:50.599
<v Speaker 4>Well?

871
00:45:51.199 --> 00:45:56.199
<v Speaker 5>Around the shop, I was known for being fast and detailed.

872
00:45:56.920 --> 00:46:02.599
<v Speaker 5>That was that was my thing. John Goodson and I

873
00:46:02.719 --> 00:46:05.840
<v Speaker 5>were both kind of that way. We ended up working

874
00:46:05.880 --> 00:46:08.800
<v Speaker 5>in a lot of projects together. In fact, someone jokingly

875
00:46:08.960 --> 00:46:11.360
<v Speaker 5>told us that they had a meeting where they're asking

876
00:46:11.400 --> 00:46:13.719
<v Speaker 5>how many Johns would it take to do this project?

877
00:46:18.280 --> 00:46:20.559
<v Speaker 5>And also because we had several Johns in the shop,

878
00:46:20.639 --> 00:46:23.679
<v Speaker 5>because there was John Foreman, John Goodson, John Duncan you know.

879
00:46:27.239 --> 00:46:29.639
<v Speaker 2>That's the other thing about the work that you did

880
00:46:30.360 --> 00:46:33.119
<v Speaker 2>is it wasn't really built to last forever, right, These

881
00:46:33.159 --> 00:46:33.840
<v Speaker 2>things were.

882
00:46:33.719 --> 00:46:36.440
<v Speaker 3>Built for the screen for a couple of weeks and

883
00:46:36.599 --> 00:46:37.239
<v Speaker 3>a couple of days.

884
00:46:37.239 --> 00:46:37.559
<v Speaker 4>Shoot.

885
00:46:38.079 --> 00:46:41.599
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, And the joke was if it falls apart after

886
00:46:41.599 --> 00:46:49.000
<v Speaker 5>the camera stops rolling, it did its job. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

887
00:46:49.039 --> 00:46:50.039
<v Speaker 5>And yeah, they weren't.

888
00:46:50.079 --> 00:46:51.960
<v Speaker 4>They weren't necessarily built to last.

889
00:46:53.280 --> 00:46:55.320
<v Speaker 2>So what do you think about these people then who

890
00:46:55.360 --> 00:46:57.679
<v Speaker 2>collect this stuff? You know, this stuff goes to walks

891
00:46:57.840 --> 00:47:01.239
<v Speaker 2>and sell the sales for a fortune. In a way,

892
00:47:01.400 --> 00:47:04.159
<v Speaker 2>they sort of need to be preserved for history. But

893
00:47:04.719 --> 00:47:07.760
<v Speaker 2>at the same time, you know they're not. They're not

894
00:47:07.840 --> 00:47:11.480
<v Speaker 2>these kind of gilded precious objects in a way that

895
00:47:11.519 --> 00:47:12.519
<v Speaker 2>an antique is.

896
00:47:12.599 --> 00:47:17.440
<v Speaker 5>Let's say, yeah, yeah, but it's they're they're their own

897
00:47:17.480 --> 00:47:18.360
<v Speaker 5>pieces of art.

898
00:47:18.280 --> 00:47:21.559
<v Speaker 4>In a way. Definitely. Yeah, there's so.

899
00:47:23.320 --> 00:47:26.119
<v Speaker 5>I'm I'm a member of the Replica Prop Forum, so

900
00:47:26.320 --> 00:47:31.559
<v Speaker 5>I interact on there a lot. And it's amazing what

901
00:47:32.239 --> 00:47:36.079
<v Speaker 5>because they're some of these guys are are replicating the

902
00:47:36.119 --> 00:47:39.199
<v Speaker 5>props that were built for the films, and the amount

903
00:47:39.280 --> 00:47:44.119
<v Speaker 5>of research that they do have done is just remarkable,

904
00:47:44.239 --> 00:47:47.039
<v Speaker 5>because when we're putting the models together, we're just digging

905
00:47:47.079 --> 00:47:50.480
<v Speaker 5>through bins of parts and we often don't know what

906
00:47:50.599 --> 00:47:53.000
<v Speaker 5>model the piece came off of, because it could just

907
00:47:53.039 --> 00:47:54.679
<v Speaker 5>be like, oh, there were a couple of them loose

908
00:47:54.719 --> 00:47:56.159
<v Speaker 5>in the bottom of the box. We used to have

909
00:47:56.199 --> 00:48:00.679
<v Speaker 5>these big boxes upstairs at at ILM that were filled

910
00:48:00.719 --> 00:48:04.760
<v Speaker 5>with the model park trees from different model kits, and

911
00:48:04.800 --> 00:48:06.840
<v Speaker 5>then we had kits that we could open up brand

912
00:48:06.840 --> 00:48:09.239
<v Speaker 5>new ones and stuff too. But then eventually the park

913
00:48:09.320 --> 00:48:11.719
<v Speaker 5>trees would just ended up getting dumped into these boxes

914
00:48:11.719 --> 00:48:13.800
<v Speaker 5>and you just dig through them and they'd be green

915
00:48:13.880 --> 00:48:17.239
<v Speaker 5>and gray and blue and brown, and you just pluck

916
00:48:17.280 --> 00:48:18.760
<v Speaker 5>off the parts you wanted and stick no.

917
00:48:18.760 --> 00:48:19.840
<v Speaker 3>Idea where they came from.

918
00:48:20.039 --> 00:48:24.960
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, and they people would just research the heck out

919
00:48:24.960 --> 00:48:29.119
<v Speaker 5>of what kits were available and what the model trees

920
00:48:29.239 --> 00:48:30.880
<v Speaker 5>it looked like. They'd look at the back of the

921
00:48:30.960 --> 00:48:34.760
<v Speaker 5>piece sometimes and that's it's amazing what they've done, and

922
00:48:35.079 --> 00:48:41.599
<v Speaker 5>I truly remarkable replicas of the ships. I take my

923
00:48:41.639 --> 00:48:43.559
<v Speaker 5>hat off to them. It's amazing what they've done. It

924
00:48:43.559 --> 00:48:45.880
<v Speaker 5>was so much, so much harder than what we did

925
00:48:45.920 --> 00:48:47.400
<v Speaker 5>when we were making them.

926
00:48:47.840 --> 00:48:50.000
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, they're reverse engineering it all, aren't they.

927
00:48:50.079 --> 00:48:52.320
<v Speaker 2>And Yeah, I'm amazed at some of the stuff I've

928
00:48:52.360 --> 00:48:54.760
<v Speaker 2>seen over the years at places like prop Store here

929
00:48:54.800 --> 00:48:57.039
<v Speaker 2>in the in the UK. In London they had a

930
00:48:57.039 --> 00:48:59.519
<v Speaker 2>few mountions this last year and got to see some

931
00:48:59.519 --> 00:49:03.320
<v Speaker 2>of the things up close, which is such such cool items.

932
00:49:03.360 --> 00:49:05.840
<v Speaker 2>And I do love that people kind of pour over

933
00:49:05.880 --> 00:49:08.880
<v Speaker 2>them and research them, and you know, like Boba Fett's

934
00:49:08.960 --> 00:49:10.760
<v Speaker 2>rifle was there, and it turns out the hilt was

935
00:49:10.760 --> 00:49:14.119
<v Speaker 2>from a real World War two flamethrow or something.

936
00:49:14.159 --> 00:49:15.719
<v Speaker 3>You know, somebody had found.

937
00:49:16.000 --> 00:49:18.000
<v Speaker 2>That this chunk of wood that was taken out of

938
00:49:18.039 --> 00:49:21.239
<v Speaker 2>it happened along, you know, decades and decades ago, and.

939
00:49:21.039 --> 00:49:22.840
<v Speaker 3>It's just it it does kind of blow my mind.

940
00:49:22.960 --> 00:49:25.280
<v Speaker 2>I mean, I know David Mandel as well, who you

941
00:49:25.280 --> 00:49:28.519
<v Speaker 2>know paid three million dollars for an X wing, you know,

942
00:49:28.599 --> 00:49:34.800
<v Speaker 2>and it's it's crazy money. But I never can understand what, Oh,

943
00:49:34.800 --> 00:49:35.760
<v Speaker 2>you didn't know who bought it?

944
00:49:35.880 --> 00:49:38.360
<v Speaker 4>No, I didn't. I never heard who bought it. I

945
00:49:38.400 --> 00:49:39.920
<v Speaker 4>was I was wondering.

946
00:49:40.280 --> 00:49:44.480
<v Speaker 3>But yeah, yeah, David Mandel, Yeah.

947
00:49:44.000 --> 00:49:46.519
<v Speaker 5>It's because it's really I mean, it's I mean Star

948
00:49:46.559 --> 00:49:50.840
<v Speaker 5>Wars has made such an indelible mark on modern life

949
00:49:51.519 --> 00:49:57.599
<v Speaker 5>that people people want that connection, and especially some of

950
00:49:57.599 --> 00:50:00.280
<v Speaker 5>these things that that when they get out of the

951
00:50:00.280 --> 00:50:05.039
<v Speaker 5>public arena, it's just it's it's yeah, they want to

952
00:50:05.039 --> 00:50:07.639
<v Speaker 5>have it, and I remember, I will have it. I

953
00:50:07.679 --> 00:50:13.119
<v Speaker 5>build replicas of things all the time. And it shifted

954
00:50:13.119 --> 00:50:15.360
<v Speaker 5>a little bit when I actually started working on the

955
00:50:15.360 --> 00:50:18.119
<v Speaker 5>real things. Then of course I wanted to build real things.

956
00:50:22.039 --> 00:50:24.079
<v Speaker 5>But yeah, I still build replicas all the time.

957
00:50:25.119 --> 00:50:27.280
<v Speaker 2>Just have you got is there one in particular that

958
00:50:27.320 --> 00:50:30.119
<v Speaker 2>you have that you you really love having around?

959
00:50:32.079 --> 00:50:34.599
<v Speaker 4>I would see there's a lot of them.

960
00:50:34.960 --> 00:50:39.000
<v Speaker 5>I'm working on a Probe droid right now from Empire Strikes,

961
00:50:40.840 --> 00:50:46.440
<v Speaker 5>and uh, there's there's there's those models that that just

962
00:50:46.559 --> 00:50:51.599
<v Speaker 5>have a special connection for you. Like I have to

963
00:50:51.639 --> 00:50:54.199
<v Speaker 5>finish painting it, but I have a model of the

964
00:50:54.280 --> 00:50:59.719
<v Speaker 5>MTT from from the film.

965
00:50:58.039 --> 00:51:00.000
<v Speaker 4>And it's it's a casting of one of the original ones.

966
00:51:00.360 --> 00:51:05.199
<v Speaker 5>Well, long story so I made the original maquette of

967
00:51:05.239 --> 00:51:10.599
<v Speaker 5>the MTT the Troop Transport, and it was about two

968
00:51:10.679 --> 00:51:14.239
<v Speaker 5>feet long, and it actually ended up being used as

969
00:51:14.239 --> 00:51:17.960
<v Speaker 5>a shooting model for when it coming out of the

970
00:51:18.039 --> 00:51:21.840
<v Speaker 5>landing ship that they made casting molds the original and

971
00:51:22.199 --> 00:51:24.599
<v Speaker 5>used it for that. But then we needed to make

972
00:51:24.800 --> 00:51:27.679
<v Speaker 5>it in different sizes. So there's a six foot long

973
00:51:27.800 --> 00:51:32.559
<v Speaker 5>version that I worked on with Brian Dewey, and then

974
00:51:32.760 --> 00:51:37.159
<v Speaker 5>there's about an eight or a nine inch long version

975
00:51:37.320 --> 00:51:42.880
<v Speaker 5>that's the one I have that I carved for a

976
00:51:42.920 --> 00:51:44.559
<v Speaker 5>shot where they're all lined up I think in a

977
00:51:44.599 --> 00:51:47.599
<v Speaker 5>hangar bay. And then somebody else made like a little

978
00:51:47.639 --> 00:51:50.840
<v Speaker 5>about like inch and a half long version for another

979
00:51:50.920 --> 00:51:53.840
<v Speaker 5>long shot. So there's like four different sizes of that

980
00:51:54.480 --> 00:51:58.800
<v Speaker 5>particular ship, that particular vessel. So that one kind of

981
00:51:58.840 --> 00:52:00.639
<v Speaker 5>has a place in my heart because it's just it's

982
00:52:00.639 --> 00:52:01.559
<v Speaker 5>a neat looking thing.

983
00:52:01.599 --> 00:52:02.559
<v Speaker 4>It reminded me of.

984
00:52:02.440 --> 00:52:10.760
<v Speaker 5>A a railroad train and a charging elephant, So it's, uh,

985
00:52:11.119 --> 00:52:14.039
<v Speaker 5>it's just I really enjoyed making that. I got to

986
00:52:14.039 --> 00:52:17.400
<v Speaker 5>put a little fun bit on the as part of

987
00:52:17.400 --> 00:52:20.320
<v Speaker 5>the detailing of it. It reminded me a little bit

988
00:52:20.400 --> 00:52:22.599
<v Speaker 5>of when I was working on the on the the

989
00:52:22.760 --> 00:52:24.719
<v Speaker 5>mackeat of it. It reminded me a little bit of

990
00:52:24.760 --> 00:52:28.239
<v Speaker 5>the sand Crawler, and so kind of in my head,

991
00:52:28.280 --> 00:52:30.639
<v Speaker 5>I was imagining that what if one of these had,

992
00:52:31.920 --> 00:52:35.800
<v Speaker 5>you know, been destroyed on Tatooine and the Jawas.

993
00:52:35.400 --> 00:52:38.320
<v Speaker 4>Had turned it sand crawl off the front or whatever.

994
00:52:39.039 --> 00:52:42.360
<v Speaker 5>And uh so I actually went into the archives and

995
00:52:42.719 --> 00:52:45.880
<v Speaker 5>took reference of the details on the top and so

996
00:52:46.760 --> 00:52:49.639
<v Speaker 5>it's not exactly the same, but I mimicked some of

997
00:52:49.679 --> 00:52:52.599
<v Speaker 5>the details on the top of the sand Crawler onto

998
00:52:52.639 --> 00:52:55.199
<v Speaker 5>the top of the the MTT.

999
00:52:55.880 --> 00:52:58.360
<v Speaker 4>That's very cool. Another fun story about the MTT is

1000
00:52:58.400 --> 00:53:02.320
<v Speaker 4>it's it's a it's a Honda. I'm very black of it.

1001
00:53:02.360 --> 00:53:05.880
<v Speaker 5>There's all this detail in this just greebally. First in

1002
00:53:05.880 --> 00:53:08.000
<v Speaker 5>the middle and at the very bottom of it is

1003
00:53:08.000 --> 00:53:12.000
<v Speaker 5>a Honda symbol that I stuck on the original mackead

1004
00:53:12.039 --> 00:53:14.000
<v Speaker 5>of it, and then when we built the six ft

1005
00:53:14.360 --> 00:53:18.639
<v Speaker 5>or six foot long version, we did another version with it.

1006
00:53:18.639 --> 00:53:23.039
<v Speaker 5>It also has was that from a from a model

1007
00:53:23.119 --> 00:53:25.159
<v Speaker 5>kit or was it just like a decal or something?

1008
00:53:25.280 --> 00:53:28.800
<v Speaker 5>I think that, yeah, the mackuette it was a model

1009
00:53:28.840 --> 00:53:32.280
<v Speaker 5>kit part that just the symbol, the nose emblem from

1010
00:53:32.320 --> 00:53:34.119
<v Speaker 5>some car and I just stuck it on there, and

1011
00:53:34.159 --> 00:53:36.199
<v Speaker 5>then when we did the big version, we were like, okay,

1012
00:53:36.239 --> 00:53:38.079
<v Speaker 5>we got a copy it, so what's the on there.

1013
00:53:39.079 --> 00:53:41.119
<v Speaker 2>I bet the probot is a hard one to do

1014
00:53:41.199 --> 00:53:45.320
<v Speaker 2>because that's quite individual design in a way. There's nothing

1015
00:53:45.320 --> 00:53:47.639
<v Speaker 2>else like it in those films. I mean, that's what

1016
00:53:47.760 --> 00:53:50.760
<v Speaker 2>I really like about those original films, actually, that everything

1017
00:53:50.800 --> 00:53:55.320
<v Speaker 2>feels like it was designed by many designers, you know,

1018
00:53:55.440 --> 00:53:58.119
<v Speaker 2>rather than like none overarching.

1019
00:53:58.960 --> 00:54:04.280
<v Speaker 3>Yeah exactly, and that and claws and.

1020
00:54:04.760 --> 00:54:06.440
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's and that.

1021
00:54:07.039 --> 00:54:11.119
<v Speaker 5>Fortunately for me, there's folks on the replica prop forum

1022
00:54:11.159 --> 00:54:16.920
<v Speaker 5>who've researched all those parts and have a list of like,

1023
00:54:16.960 --> 00:54:21.039
<v Speaker 5>here's all the kids you buy to build this, and

1024
00:54:21.280 --> 00:54:23.599
<v Speaker 5>you still have to make your own patterns and things,

1025
00:54:23.639 --> 00:54:27.119
<v Speaker 5>but that it's that's something I can do. But it's

1026
00:54:27.159 --> 00:54:30.400
<v Speaker 5>it's just, yeah, it makes life a lot easier having

1027
00:54:30.920 --> 00:54:33.760
<v Speaker 5>the fandom that has done all this legwork for me

1028
00:54:35.119 --> 00:54:39.440
<v Speaker 5>to do it again super big thanks to them.

1029
00:54:39.719 --> 00:54:41.519
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I bet there are some model kits that are

1030
00:54:41.519 --> 00:54:43.400
<v Speaker 2>hard to find though, right, there must be. It must

1031
00:54:43.400 --> 00:54:45.679
<v Speaker 2>be getting to a point where trying to find a

1032
00:54:45.719 --> 00:54:49.280
<v Speaker 2>model kit that they used on an original ship or

1033
00:54:49.559 --> 00:54:50.400
<v Speaker 2>character or whatever.

1034
00:54:50.480 --> 00:54:50.639
<v Speaker 4>Back.

1035
00:54:50.719 --> 00:54:52.480
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, some of them are and some of them are

1036
00:54:52.519 --> 00:54:58.480
<v Speaker 5>just ridiculously expensive too. Yeah, like, well, some of them

1037
00:54:58.519 --> 00:55:00.800
<v Speaker 5>are still in production. Like there's a lot of the

1038
00:55:00.880 --> 00:55:04.880
<v Speaker 5>Tamiya and Hasagawa kits that are still around. The c

1039
00:55:05.119 --> 00:55:08.599
<v Speaker 5>Lab kit was used for a number of different models

1040
00:55:09.119 --> 00:55:14.039
<v Speaker 5>and it went out of production and people were like

1041
00:55:14.599 --> 00:55:19.320
<v Speaker 5>hoarding them like their gold. And then but there's a

1042
00:55:19.360 --> 00:55:22.400
<v Speaker 5>company I think that's just actually re releasing that kit

1043
00:55:24.039 --> 00:55:28.400
<v Speaker 5>kind of almost specifically for the the scratch built model

1044
00:55:28.639 --> 00:55:32.599
<v Speaker 5>companies or fans that want to, you know, use it

1045
00:55:31.519 --> 00:55:34.719
<v Speaker 5>for Star Wars stuff, which is ridiculous.

1046
00:55:34.760 --> 00:55:38.400
<v Speaker 4>That's that. That's how it's happening. Yeah, that the comand

1047
00:55:38.519 --> 00:55:39.480
<v Speaker 4>comes from that world.

1048
00:55:39.559 --> 00:55:40.159
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

1049
00:55:40.239 --> 00:55:42.679
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, But then there's like these old was it uh,

1050
00:55:42.960 --> 00:55:44.800
<v Speaker 5>it's like a Porsche kit. I think it was a

1051
00:55:44.880 --> 00:55:47.280
<v Speaker 5>large scale Porsche kit. I think it's out of production

1052
00:55:48.559 --> 00:55:50.920
<v Speaker 5>and so trying to find one is like hundreds of dollars.

1053
00:55:52.320 --> 00:55:53.840
<v Speaker 4>So it's nice.

1054
00:55:53.880 --> 00:55:56.039
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, yeah, pretty cool though.

1055
00:55:56.159 --> 00:55:58.400
<v Speaker 2>I love I love the level of research, the deep

1056
00:55:58.440 --> 00:56:02.960
<v Speaker 2>research you've been let's say, in the public eye with

1057
00:56:03.000 --> 00:56:07.239
<v Speaker 2>the with Adam Savage doing the R two build and stuff.

1058
00:56:08.199 --> 00:56:11.320
<v Speaker 2>I've seen that last week and that looked like a

1059
00:56:11.360 --> 00:56:14.840
<v Speaker 2>lot of fun. But I sort of wanted to no,

1060
00:56:14.960 --> 00:56:16.800
<v Speaker 2>because I looked at the viewing figures and it's like,

1061
00:56:16.920 --> 00:56:19.199
<v Speaker 2>I don't know, seven hundred thousand people have watched it

1062
00:56:19.280 --> 00:56:22.760
<v Speaker 2>or something. People love the kind of physical items that

1063
00:56:22.800 --> 00:56:27.320
<v Speaker 2>you guys build. So where do physical models still kind

1064
00:56:27.320 --> 00:56:32.119
<v Speaker 2>of win outright for you? And where does digital genuinely

1065
00:56:32.199 --> 00:56:34.960
<v Speaker 2>replace the need to have physical models.

1066
00:56:35.119 --> 00:56:38.079
<v Speaker 4>Hmmm, well, there's.

1067
00:56:39.360 --> 00:56:43.960
<v Speaker 5>As far as the industry is concerned, the models get

1068
00:56:44.079 --> 00:56:46.679
<v Speaker 5>used I think primarily as said, extensions and things now

1069
00:56:46.719 --> 00:56:51.880
<v Speaker 5>and then maybe for like specialty work like pyrotechnics and

1070
00:56:54.800 --> 00:57:00.639
<v Speaker 5>water because it takes a lot of process power to

1071
00:57:00.679 --> 00:57:07.400
<v Speaker 5>do particle effects like so water splashes and movements, fog

1072
00:57:07.559 --> 00:57:09.840
<v Speaker 5>and fire and that.

1073
00:57:09.840 --> 00:57:10.360
<v Speaker 4>Sort of thing.

1074
00:57:11.480 --> 00:57:13.440
<v Speaker 5>Those are all things, of course, you get for free

1075
00:57:13.519 --> 00:57:17.519
<v Speaker 5>with when you have an actual physical object. When the

1076
00:57:17.519 --> 00:57:20.119
<v Speaker 5>water splashes up against the side of it, it splashes

1077
00:57:20.199 --> 00:57:25.800
<v Speaker 5>just like water would splash. I know there are some

1078
00:57:25.840 --> 00:57:29.360
<v Speaker 5>directors who really like to use models still, and I think.

1079
00:57:29.119 --> 00:57:33.119
<v Speaker 4>There's also a desire.

1080
00:57:32.920 --> 00:57:38.719
<v Speaker 5>From the fans to have models. It just becomes sort

1081
00:57:38.719 --> 00:57:46.000
<v Speaker 5>of this physical touchstone I think to the production the

1082
00:57:46.880 --> 00:57:50.039
<v Speaker 5>so like even like shows like The Mandalorian or and

1083
00:57:50.280 --> 00:57:55.320
<v Speaker 5>or they they may not build models of every spaceship

1084
00:57:55.800 --> 00:57:57.760
<v Speaker 5>that's used in it, but they do do a couple

1085
00:57:58.840 --> 00:58:03.400
<v Speaker 5>and I think that is the production saying this is

1086
00:58:03.440 --> 00:58:04.760
<v Speaker 5>something the fans want and.

1087
00:58:04.679 --> 00:58:07.719
<v Speaker 4>So we're giving it. Yeah, I mean, and there's some

1088
00:58:07.760 --> 00:58:08.159
<v Speaker 4>things that.

1089
00:58:08.039 --> 00:58:10.480
<v Speaker 2>I'm sure the marketing department likes it as well because

1090
00:58:10.519 --> 00:58:12.440
<v Speaker 2>it creates a story around the film as well.

1091
00:58:12.519 --> 00:58:14.719
<v Speaker 3>Doesn't it to a certain demographic as well?

1092
00:58:14.880 --> 00:58:16.000
<v Speaker 4>And I think it's that.

1093
00:58:16.199 --> 00:58:18.480
<v Speaker 5>I think that's it's really good too because it lets

1094
00:58:18.559 --> 00:58:21.079
<v Speaker 5>other directors know that, hey, because I think model's got

1095
00:58:21.559 --> 00:58:24.800
<v Speaker 5>a reputation for being difficult to shoot, you know, like, oh,

1096
00:58:24.800 --> 00:58:27.440
<v Speaker 5>they're really time consuming and difficult to shoot, and you know,

1097
00:58:27.480 --> 00:58:30.760
<v Speaker 5>sometimes they can be. But it's again one more sort

1098
00:58:30.800 --> 00:58:34.840
<v Speaker 5>of a tool in the drawer, as it were, because

1099
00:58:34.960 --> 00:58:38.320
<v Speaker 5>computers are great for a lot of things, but when

1100
00:58:38.360 --> 00:58:43.559
<v Speaker 5>computers do everything, some things don't look quite right because

1101
00:58:43.599 --> 00:58:45.199
<v Speaker 5>it all comes down to the artists that are using

1102
00:58:45.239 --> 00:58:49.000
<v Speaker 5>it and the and the limits of the technology and

1103
00:58:49.039 --> 00:58:54.360
<v Speaker 5>the time. So that's I think it's it's it's important

1104
00:58:54.400 --> 00:58:57.800
<v Speaker 5>to know as a filmmaker what the proper tool is

1105
00:58:58.280 --> 00:59:00.840
<v Speaker 5>because you can do everything with you can't build a

1106
00:59:00.880 --> 00:59:05.880
<v Speaker 5>house with just a saw. Yeah, so's you gotta you

1107
00:59:05.880 --> 00:59:07.559
<v Speaker 5>gotta you gotta use the right thing for the right,

1108
00:59:07.960 --> 00:59:09.480
<v Speaker 5>the right to get the right thing.

1109
00:59:10.480 --> 00:59:10.840
<v Speaker 4>I like it.

1110
00:59:10.920 --> 00:59:13.519
<v Speaker 2>I like that line, like I like the line you

1111
00:59:13.559 --> 00:59:16.000
<v Speaker 2>can't build a house with justice all. I was looking

1112
00:59:16.000 --> 00:59:17.679
<v Speaker 2>through your films when I was doing a bit of

1113
00:59:17.719 --> 00:59:21.159
<v Speaker 2>research on you, and I was like, Okay, so Star Trek,

1114
00:59:21.480 --> 00:59:25.119
<v Speaker 2>Star Wars, Planet of the Apes, Hulk, these are all

1115
00:59:25.159 --> 00:59:27.000
<v Speaker 2>like you know you so you've been in the Star

1116
00:59:27.039 --> 00:59:29.599
<v Speaker 2>Trek universe, the Star Wars universe, the Planet of the Apes,

1117
00:59:30.159 --> 00:59:33.920
<v Speaker 2>the Marvel though, although Hulk was kind of pre Marvel

1118
00:59:33.920 --> 00:59:35.719
<v Speaker 2>in a way before it kind of took.

1119
00:59:35.519 --> 00:59:37.559
<v Speaker 4>Off, like yeah, that was the angry Hulk.

1120
00:59:38.199 --> 00:59:41.920
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, mission impossible. I mean, what's left?

1121
00:59:42.920 --> 00:59:43.840
<v Speaker 4>What's left?

1122
00:59:43.920 --> 00:59:46.360
<v Speaker 2>Like for you as a as a desire of a

1123
00:59:46.360 --> 00:59:48.159
<v Speaker 2>film to work on our franchise.

1124
00:59:47.760 --> 00:59:48.320
<v Speaker 4>I don't know.

1125
00:59:49.840 --> 00:59:54.760
<v Speaker 5>It's funny because Pirates of the Caribbean came along and

1126
00:59:54.800 --> 00:59:56.599
<v Speaker 5>that was such a fun.

1127
00:59:56.400 --> 00:59:59.320
<v Speaker 4>Project for me. Sorry about the noise.

1128
00:59:59.360 --> 01:00:02.719
<v Speaker 2>My dog just I just had a dog snore.

1129
01:00:04.400 --> 01:00:08.760
<v Speaker 4>I've ah, he snorts like a pig.

1130
01:00:11.039 --> 01:00:14.880
<v Speaker 5>But I was gonna say, uh, Pirates of the kerb

1131
01:00:15.039 --> 01:00:17.280
<v Speaker 5>and was such a fun thing to work on because

1132
01:00:17.320 --> 01:00:19.679
<v Speaker 5>it was a big departure from all a lot of

1133
01:00:19.679 --> 01:00:21.920
<v Speaker 5>the things i'd done were you know, robots and spaceships

1134
01:00:21.920 --> 01:00:24.079
<v Speaker 5>and things like that, and sort of work on pirate

1135
01:00:24.159 --> 01:00:26.199
<v Speaker 5>ships was so fun.

1136
01:00:26.280 --> 01:00:26.960
<v Speaker 4>We even had.

1137
01:00:26.800 --> 01:00:31.679
<v Speaker 5>A a shipwright come and work with us who taught

1138
01:00:31.760 --> 01:00:33.760
<v Speaker 5>us all about tying knots and what the names of

1139
01:00:33.800 --> 01:00:36.039
<v Speaker 5>the sales were and all this sort of thing, and

1140
01:00:36.119 --> 01:00:38.800
<v Speaker 5>it was it was so much fun to learn all

1141
01:00:38.800 --> 01:00:41.519
<v Speaker 5>that stuff because it was, like I said, it was

1142
01:00:41.559 --> 01:00:45.039
<v Speaker 5>it was so different than you know, building a spaceship,

1143
01:00:45.280 --> 01:00:47.679
<v Speaker 5>which i'd done at a hundred times at that point.

1144
01:00:48.840 --> 01:00:51.000
<v Speaker 3>So now you've worked on a couple of those, right.

1145
01:00:51.440 --> 01:00:54.840
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, three of them? Yeah, the first three? Oh three? Yeah,

1146
01:00:54.880 --> 01:00:55.320
<v Speaker 4>the first three.

1147
01:00:55.360 --> 01:00:57.079
<v Speaker 3>I always think there's three, that there's four.

1148
01:00:57.559 --> 01:01:01.280
<v Speaker 4>I think there's four or five. Yeah, yeah, at least four.

1149
01:01:01.480 --> 01:01:04.880
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so you worked Yeah, so you worked on three.

1150
01:01:05.000 --> 01:01:05.679
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

1151
01:01:06.000 --> 01:01:09.920
<v Speaker 2>That's the thing in those films, In those science fiction films,

1152
01:01:09.960 --> 01:01:13.039
<v Speaker 2>people expect visual effects, right, they expect models, and they

1153
01:01:13.039 --> 01:01:15.320
<v Speaker 2>expect computer graphics these days. But with a film like that,

1154
01:01:15.920 --> 01:01:19.159
<v Speaker 2>you don't expect effects necessarily, so you're not really looking

1155
01:01:19.280 --> 01:01:21.880
<v Speaker 2>for them as well, and it's a very different.

1156
01:01:21.599 --> 01:01:23.159
<v Speaker 4>Experience, I think for the for the.

1157
01:01:23.199 --> 01:01:27.159
<v Speaker 5>Viewer, and maybe it's more if nobody notices. Then you

1158
01:01:27.159 --> 01:01:29.880
<v Speaker 5>did the job, right, Yeah, yeah, that's.

1159
01:01:29.880 --> 01:01:32.280
<v Speaker 2>You kind of Well, let's face it, you do want

1160
01:01:32.320 --> 01:01:34.119
<v Speaker 2>to show off a little bit. You want people to say, Wow,

1161
01:01:34.199 --> 01:01:36.519
<v Speaker 2>that was a that was a cool set piece or whatever,

1162
01:01:36.599 --> 01:01:39.679
<v Speaker 2>that was a cool ship. But you don't necessarily want

1163
01:01:39.679 --> 01:01:42.440
<v Speaker 2>them to say that that was clearly tense scale y.

1164
01:01:43.800 --> 01:01:46.440
<v Speaker 5>Or that was a really that was a crummy model,

1165
01:01:46.599 --> 01:01:51.159
<v Speaker 5>or that's what you want to say, or recognize it,

1166
01:01:51.280 --> 01:01:53.280
<v Speaker 5>or that looks a little off and I don't know why.

1167
01:01:53.480 --> 01:01:57.320
<v Speaker 5>That's that's what you don't want them to say. You

1168
01:01:57.320 --> 01:01:59.519
<v Speaker 5>want them to just see it excepted for being real

1169
01:01:59.679 --> 01:02:01.519
<v Speaker 5>and keep them in the movie.

1170
01:02:01.599 --> 01:02:03.840
<v Speaker 4>You know. That's that's that's what the story.

1171
01:02:04.599 --> 01:02:07.760
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, I saw that you worked on Wally Wally

1172
01:02:07.960 --> 01:02:11.880
<v Speaker 2>as well, doing models on that, so these are models

1173
01:02:12.039 --> 01:02:13.320
<v Speaker 2>to be scanned.

1174
01:02:13.079 --> 01:02:16.760
<v Speaker 5>Or well, that was actually it was a costume that

1175
01:02:16.800 --> 01:02:18.039
<v Speaker 5>I worked on for that one.

1176
01:02:20.039 --> 01:02:26.960
<v Speaker 4>Fred Willard was in in Wally and he's I think

1177
01:02:27.840 --> 01:02:30.119
<v Speaker 4>the first.

1178
01:02:29.320 --> 01:02:34.440
<v Speaker 5>Maybe only live action human in a Pixar film.

1179
01:02:35.360 --> 01:02:37.599
<v Speaker 4>He he played.

1180
01:02:38.880 --> 01:02:40.519
<v Speaker 5>I don't remember the name of the character or anything,

1181
01:02:40.559 --> 01:02:43.840
<v Speaker 5>but he was he was supposed to be telling there

1182
01:02:43.880 --> 01:02:46.320
<v Speaker 5>was a video that was watched on the ship in

1183
01:02:46.480 --> 01:02:49.960
<v Speaker 5>the in the Wally movie, and he was saying, you know,

1184
01:02:50.880 --> 01:02:54.119
<v Speaker 5>when the planet is safe for human habitation, you guys

1185
01:02:54.119 --> 01:02:56.880
<v Speaker 5>can all come back. And in the meantime, you know,

1186
01:02:57.000 --> 01:03:00.039
<v Speaker 5>and in the background there's a spaceship taking off and

1187
01:03:02.519 --> 01:03:04.119
<v Speaker 5>it's supposed to be like when all the humans are

1188
01:03:04.360 --> 01:03:07.840
<v Speaker 5>leaving Earth because it's uninhabitable, and he's saying, when it's

1189
01:03:07.840 --> 01:03:10.199
<v Speaker 5>all habitable again, you all come back and it'll be

1190
01:03:10.199 --> 01:03:13.280
<v Speaker 5>all great. Don't worry about a thing. And then he's

1191
01:03:13.360 --> 01:03:15.159
<v Speaker 5>like trying to skid out all out of there because

1192
01:03:15.719 --> 01:03:19.559
<v Speaker 5>it's not safe for him to be there anymore. But

1193
01:03:19.679 --> 01:03:24.159
<v Speaker 5>we shot that at thirty two ten Studios and the

1194
01:03:24.840 --> 01:03:27.039
<v Speaker 5>so the costume that he was wearing had like this

1195
01:03:27.199 --> 01:03:29.239
<v Speaker 5>chest play with the beeping lights and things on it,

1196
01:03:29.280 --> 01:03:31.639
<v Speaker 5>and that was that was what I built for that.

1197
01:03:32.920 --> 01:03:36.000
<v Speaker 2>Right, Okay, Yeah, it seems like you've done lots of

1198
01:03:36.000 --> 01:03:40.280
<v Speaker 2>different disciplines over the years. But what would John Duncan

1199
01:03:40.400 --> 01:03:42.639
<v Speaker 2>have done if model making had not come along?

1200
01:03:42.800 --> 01:03:46.480
<v Speaker 3>What was what was oh the other path in your destiny?

1201
01:03:47.159 --> 01:03:50.320
<v Speaker 5>Well, when I was younger, my parents kept saying you

1202
01:03:50.360 --> 01:03:52.599
<v Speaker 5>should be an ear surgeon, because I was. I was

1203
01:03:52.639 --> 01:03:55.559
<v Speaker 5>always working a little tiny things, and so they thought

1204
01:03:55.960 --> 01:03:58.559
<v Speaker 5>working on the inner bones of an ear.

1205
01:03:58.360 --> 01:04:01.079
<v Speaker 4>Would be something that got it work for me. I

1206
01:04:01.079 --> 01:04:05.800
<v Speaker 4>don't think I would have enjoyed people are weird and

1207
01:04:05.840 --> 01:04:10.400
<v Speaker 4>squishy and blood and all that stuff. That's something I

1208
01:04:10.440 --> 01:04:11.800
<v Speaker 4>think I would enjoy working on.

1209
01:04:14.039 --> 01:04:16.639
<v Speaker 2>Well, it sounds like you made the right choice all

1210
01:04:16.679 --> 01:04:18.880
<v Speaker 2>along on the you know, it feels like you know,

1211
01:04:18.960 --> 01:04:21.039
<v Speaker 2>you set out with an intention and the sort of

1212
01:04:21.320 --> 01:04:23.800
<v Speaker 2>the path came to meet you almost, which is often

1213
01:04:23.800 --> 01:04:25.079
<v Speaker 2>the case when I speak to it.

1214
01:04:25.159 --> 01:04:28.199
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, it was. It was. I didn't I didn't set

1215
01:04:28.199 --> 01:04:29.400
<v Speaker 4>out to go work for ILM.

1216
01:04:30.039 --> 01:04:32.639
<v Speaker 5>I I thought that was a cool thing, and I thought,

1217
01:04:32.800 --> 01:04:35.519
<v Speaker 5>you know, when when I realized it was actually a career,

1218
01:04:35.599 --> 01:04:39.119
<v Speaker 5>I did think about, like, oh, that would be cool

1219
01:04:39.159 --> 01:04:41.159
<v Speaker 5>to do, but I never thought it would be something

1220
01:04:41.159 --> 01:04:45.960
<v Speaker 5>that I would do. And then life just kept sort

1221
01:04:45.960 --> 01:04:49.840
<v Speaker 5>of diverting me that way, and and it was I mean,

1222
01:04:49.880 --> 01:04:51.599
<v Speaker 5>I I just kept going with it.

1223
01:04:51.719 --> 01:04:56.400
<v Speaker 4>That was the thing I I tried to say.

1224
01:04:56.480 --> 01:05:16.920
<v Speaker 2>Yes, that was my chat there with John Duncan. Thanks

1225
01:05:16.920 --> 01:05:19.599
<v Speaker 2>so much to John for his time and for his

1226
01:05:19.679 --> 01:05:21.480
<v Speaker 2>dog snorting on the recording.

1227
01:05:22.199 --> 01:05:23.000
<v Speaker 3>I really enjoyed that.

1228
01:05:23.039 --> 01:05:26.280
<v Speaker 2>One's there's something about hearing from people who are you know,

1229
01:05:26.559 --> 01:05:29.440
<v Speaker 2>were right there in the physical era of effects work,

1230
01:05:29.480 --> 01:05:31.800
<v Speaker 2>building things with their hands, solving problems on the fly,

1231
01:05:31.960 --> 01:05:36.000
<v Speaker 2>figuring out how to make something look right for the camera,

1232
01:05:36.039 --> 01:05:38.000
<v Speaker 2>you know, not just for the eye. And John's got

1233
01:05:38.000 --> 01:05:41.760
<v Speaker 2>that great perspective of having seen the shift from physical

1234
01:05:41.800 --> 01:05:44.800
<v Speaker 2>into digital without losing sight of what makes physical stuff

1235
01:05:44.840 --> 01:05:48.519
<v Speaker 2>so valuable. And this is not an anti CGI podcast.

1236
01:05:48.719 --> 01:05:51.440
<v Speaker 2>I find it interesting to talk to people who've had

1237
01:05:51.440 --> 01:05:53.920
<v Speaker 2>hands on I like talking to people who are coming

1238
01:05:54.000 --> 01:05:57.960
<v Speaker 2>up with new digital effects. This podcast is very much

1239
01:05:58.000 --> 01:06:01.360
<v Speaker 2>about celebrating that that creative mind and whatever the tool is.

1240
01:06:02.440 --> 01:06:04.280
<v Speaker 2>So if you enjoyed that episode or any of the others,

1241
01:06:04.320 --> 01:06:06.119
<v Speaker 2>please do share it around, tell a friend, or leave

1242
01:06:06.119 --> 01:06:09.320
<v Speaker 2>a rating or review wherever you're listening Patreon, dot Com,

1243
01:06:09.360 --> 01:06:11.960
<v Speaker 2>forward slash Jamie Benning as well. It's just gonna help

1244
01:06:12.000 --> 01:06:15.159
<v Speaker 2>more people find the show. All Right, that's it for

1245
01:06:15.199 --> 01:06:17.440
<v Speaker 2>this episode. Thanks for joining me, and I hope you

1246
01:06:17.480 --> 01:06:19.280
<v Speaker 2>can do so for the next episode of the Film

1247
01:06:19.320 --> 01:06:20.280
<v Speaker 2>You Mentors podcast.

1248
01:06:21.760 --> 01:06:27.840
<v Speaker 3>Red Thingy Moving toward the Green Thingy? What red thing

1249
01:06:27.960 --> 01:06:29.480
<v Speaker 3>you moving towards the Green thing.

1250
01:06:31.400 --> 01:07:04.719
<v Speaker 1>I think I think really green Thingy weird in a way.

1251
01:07:04.800 --> 01:07:05.159
<v Speaker 1>Media