Speaker 1: We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers
Speaker 1: of dreams.
Speaker 2: Imagine what would it happen if we had and attracted
Speaker 2: the magic we had back when we couldn't fathom life
Speaker 2: is a fantasy, not with the fanity, not the way
Speaker 2: it was back then. So I grabbed my pan and
Speaker 2: write it down like a scripture. Missed the mistic making
Speaker 2: hits for the Misfits, the show where you don't know
Speaker 2: what you don't know?
Speaker 3: When it's on again with Sewn and Jonathan. Welcome to Metimistics,
Speaker 3: where you don't know what you don't know. My name's Jonathan,
Speaker 3: I'm Sean, and today we have a very special first
Speaker 3: time guest. Welcome to the show. Thomas Hatsis hey man
Speaker 3: and really looking forward to this. And from from a
Speaker 3: lot of your content, I see that you are right
Speaker 3: up our alley as far as understanding magic, and you
Speaker 3: just got done talking about your alter being over there.
Speaker 3: We're like, you're a real life wizard and we want
Speaker 3: to talk to you. So how did you get into
Speaker 3: all that in the first place?
Speaker 1: I just pretty much my whole life. I think there
Speaker 1: was a lot. I know, that's like the shittiest senseorever.
Speaker 1: Oh wait, could I.
Speaker 4: Say that, Yeah, of course, yeah, I.
Speaker 1: Like I even I can say so, oh my whole life,
Speaker 1: like what a what a shallow? And there I just
Speaker 1: did it. No, you know, you just you sort of
Speaker 1: have these feelings, you're you're sort of attracted to it.
Speaker 1: Like so growing up I liked the tell the show
Speaker 1: duct Tails if you ever heard of it, yep, and
Speaker 1: the episodes that had to do with like witches or
Speaker 1: wizards or anything like that. I just sort of gravitated
Speaker 1: towards that. And then in my I don't remember how
Speaker 1: old I was, maybe eleven, twelve, thirteen, somewhere around there.
Speaker 1: My older brother didn't want to go to school the
Speaker 1: next day because I don't remember the reason. He didn't
Speaker 1: do his homework, and there was a test or whatever,
Speaker 1: and he just said, Yo, you're one of those kind
Speaker 1: of people that can make it snow. I need you
Speaker 1: to make it snow. So the first time I ever
Speaker 1: tried to do any kind of witchcraft was essentially under
Speaker 1: duress for my older brother that was going to kick
Speaker 1: my ass if I didn't. So I went outside and
Speaker 1: I just I grabbed grass from the front lawn and
Speaker 1: I boiled some water on the stove. And I put
Speaker 1: the grass in there and I said, some chance that
Speaker 1: I don't remember what they were, and yeah, that was it.
Speaker 1: That was the first smell. It didn't work, but that
Speaker 1: was the first spell I ever tried to cast my legs.
Speaker 1: And uh. Then when the first time I ate mushrooms,
Speaker 1: I was about I was like eighteen years old, and
Speaker 1: it wasn't like a full on breakthrough experience, but I
Speaker 1: definitely came back feeling like, yo, like I think magic
Speaker 1: might live there, like I think of my space, right,
Speaker 1: And so then I took like a you know, a
Speaker 1: deep dose, like like a breakthrough dose. I was like, oh, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: this is where magic is, where it is like. And
Speaker 1: so I've just been practicing what I call psychedelic witchcraft
Speaker 1: ever since, for about twenty twenty five years or so.
Speaker 3: Psychedelic witchcraft. I've never heard those two words put together.
Speaker 3: Of course, you know, they they happen to coincide. For sure.
Speaker 3: I think that anybody that's ever done a heavy heroic
Speaker 3: dose of mushrooms is willing to, you know, kind of
Speaker 3: play outside the boundaries, you know, just because there's what
Speaker 3: I love about psychedelics in general is that, yeah, there's
Speaker 3: a lot of awesome things that go on, but it
Speaker 3: gives me that same feeling of being a little kid,
Speaker 3: like that same energy, that same excitement, that same wow
Speaker 3: about everything that I'm seeing. It just makes you like
Speaker 3: the magic is no longer like not real, It absolutely
Speaker 3: is real kind of how you're just talking about. And
Speaker 3: I was like, man, that's it's funny on so many
Speaker 3: levels of what you just said. You were talking about
Speaker 3: ducktails and everything. My son is addicted to Mickey and
Speaker 3: everything Mickey, specifically the Mickey Christmas movies. He's only three
Speaker 3: years old, and they always have like you know, the
Speaker 3: it's like a Mickey and Mini scene and then the
Speaker 3: next scene is you know, Huey, Dewey and Louie. I
Speaker 3: just had to look those names up yesterday. So it's
Speaker 3: funny you even mentioned that. But yeah, there's something really
Speaker 3: to it. And as far as as far as the
Speaker 3: Ducks go, it was I believe it was a Lord Byron,
Speaker 3: our magician friend. He said that whenever he's trying to
Speaker 3: do any kind of money spell, he'll call on what's
Speaker 3: the rich uncle? Uh uh Scrooge McDuck, McDuck. Have you
Speaker 3: ever done anything like off off, like not off, but
Speaker 3: like weird like that, calling on like fictional characters and stuff.
Speaker 1: Well, an atheist would say that I do that all
Speaker 1: the time, but not to mind not. But I have
Speaker 1: a quick question for you, though, Jonathan, why were you
Speaker 1: looking up Hughey doing Louis yesterday? I'm just curious.
Speaker 3: I think that my my wife had asked me, uh
Speaker 3: because she was looking at the three Ducks as they
Speaker 3: were on TV yesterday, and uh, she goes, oh, what
Speaker 3: are their names again? And I was like, I know
Speaker 3: they rhyme, but I can't remember what they are, and
Speaker 3: so I looked it up and I was like, ah,
Speaker 3: Huey doing and Louie.
Speaker 4: Okay, well just noting mcquins.
Speaker 1: And that's cool that you just looked it up yesterday.
Speaker 1: It just means like we totally did not plan that.
Speaker 3: No, not at all.
Speaker 4: Oh, they're used to this by now. It just seems
Speaker 4: to be this is just how our shows go. You know,
Speaker 4: bliming is always perfect and we're starting to understand why. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Excellent, cool, cool, right, good role. So you would just
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, you just asked a question. What did I Oh?
Speaker 3: Yeah, do you so as far as do you call
Speaker 3: on traditional gods? And goddesses and energies and stuff like that,
Speaker 3: or do you get weird with it? I mean, it's
Speaker 3: all weird, but you know, yeah.
Speaker 1: So I sort of put it's interesting because I'm writing
Speaker 1: a book on this right now, so hopefully i'll explain
Speaker 1: it like, well, I see it like this. Here's where
Speaker 1: it's sort of like an atheist and I like because
Speaker 1: I'm a very religious person, but I want to be
Speaker 1: able to speak to people that are. Here's where we
Speaker 1: could agree, Like an atheist would agree that life and
Speaker 1: consciousness exists, right, no matter what we think about where
Speaker 1: it came from. We would all agree, right it self
Speaker 1: evident life and consciousness exists. Okay, I call that guy.
Speaker 1: We would all agree that we have the ability to
Speaker 1: make choices. Now. I know some people would say we
Speaker 1: don't have free will, like Sam Harris might say we
Speaker 1: don't have free will. I would say that we have
Speaker 1: free will, but it's within limits, of course, but we
Speaker 1: have some semblance of free will. I mean, we could
Speaker 1: both choose to hang up right now if we wanted to, right,
Speaker 1: I mean, but well, I mean I don't want to.
Speaker 1: I want to talk to you, but I mean.
Speaker 3: If you did, I would probably sentence you to hell
Speaker 3: for not going well.
Speaker 1: I would deserve it. I would deserve it anyway. So
Speaker 1: that ability to make a choice I just call hectag like.
Speaker 1: Whatever that thing is, whatever our ability to make a choice,
Speaker 1: I call it heckatan. I think an atheists would agree that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: even if it's within limits, we have the ability to
Speaker 1: make a choice. Now, what about evolution, Well, yeah, most
Speaker 1: atheists do believe. I think evolution is true. I mean,
Speaker 1: there seems to be plenty of evidence for it. I
Speaker 1: just call that seriously. So the natural sort of the
Speaker 1: primordial resonances of life, consciousness, choice, and evolution, I have
Speaker 1: just because I'm a human. That's what silly humans do.
Speaker 1: I have anthropomorphized those ideas into these sort of goddess
Speaker 1: figures because again, that's what humans do. We're a lot
Speaker 1: of fun like that. So I see my sort of
Speaker 1: religious understanding of these goddesses, whether they be fictional or not.
Speaker 1: To get to your question, Jonathan, is sort of besides
Speaker 1: the point. We have evolved as humans to seek out
Speaker 1: these experiences, whether we choose to do it or not,
Speaker 1: whether there's anything real to it or not. I mean
Speaker 1: I believe there is, but let's just say for arguments eight,
Speaker 1: there isn't We nonetheless have evolved to seek these experiences out.
Speaker 1: So for me, it just makes my life all the
Speaker 1: richer to do it. Like, I don't say it's true
Speaker 1: for me, because I don't believe in that. I just
Speaker 1: say that it serves me. It makes my life just
Speaker 1: all the better and more interesting and weird and kooky,
Speaker 1: and that's how I like it.
Speaker 3: Okay. So it's kind of like just personifying the elements
Speaker 3: around you essentially, and that is the way that you're
Speaker 3: able to get a little bit more energetically, you know,
Speaker 3: like connected to it. What's that just by personifying the
Speaker 3: certain elements and what some some might call this, others
Speaker 3: might call this, you call it something else right right
Speaker 3: by you personifying it, does that feel like you're kind
Speaker 3: of gravitating closer to the energy that we would call
Speaker 3: this A second say, hecktay.
Speaker 1: Sure, I see it sort of like this, Like my
Speaker 1: I am constantly and anybody who engages in magical practices
Speaker 1: or which we are constantly reaching up with the assumption
Speaker 1: that there is something reaching down and when it gets together,
Speaker 1: it just sort of locks in and it's a little
Speaker 1: bit of what that energy is or forces for a
Speaker 1: better word, and a little bit of ourselves, and it
Speaker 1: just it's sort of a little bit of a soup,
Speaker 1: but they're they sort of come together in that way.
Speaker 1: But the soup's tasty, so you know, I keep I
Speaker 1: keep making it.
Speaker 3: So it's kind of like a like a red shift
Speaker 3: blue shift kind of thing that is going on on
Speaker 3: top of maybe like an as above so below kind
Speaker 3: of thing.
Speaker 5: It's close like with the as above so below. I
Speaker 5: see what you're getting at, but it's it's more of
Speaker 5: as above, so below.
Speaker 1: Connected in the middle.
Speaker 3: Gotcha, Okay, total better.
Speaker 1: Way of putting it, because that's a great question. I
Speaker 1: totally wish I had a better ends with it.
Speaker 4: That it's like the co creation of the as above
Speaker 4: and so as below. Right, Yeah, that's the draction that
Speaker 4: that happens.
Speaker 1: Yea, Yeah, exactly. We're co creating it, or at least
Speaker 1: that is. I think that seems to be what's going on.
Speaker 1: And that's why like sort of like with people with
Speaker 1: let's say d MT or ayahuasca, like we'll meet the
Speaker 1: same kinds of entities, but they'll be a little different. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And I think that that's just sort of where our
Speaker 1: own just human nature just enters the picture. And I
Speaker 1: I don't know if we could ever get around that.
Speaker 1: Maybe we can, and maybe we are, and we just
Speaker 1: don't know. And I'm not giving you know, us humans
Speaker 1: enough credit, but I don't know. It's just it's interesting
Speaker 1: stuff regardless.
Speaker 4: It's a it's a very subjective experience, you know, this
Speaker 4: whole human experience. I feel like everything that is in
Speaker 4: your mind, that's going to be the thing that you
Speaker 4: tend to experience. And so it makes sense that everybody
Speaker 4: would experience something slightly different from one another, just because
Speaker 4: that is your individual, individual, fractalized, individual way of seeing it,
Speaker 4: you know.
Speaker 1: And so of course there's also and I totally agree
Speaker 1: with that. Another way to look at it, though, would
Speaker 1: be like this, because then because I'm saying this in
Speaker 1: a honestly I don't know. So maybe we can sort
Speaker 1: of wrestle with these ideas a little bit. But let's say,
Speaker 1: just for argument's sake, a UFO came to Earth, right,
Speaker 1: and there's three aliens, right. One of those aliens goes
Speaker 1: to the like, I don't know, like somewhere on the
Speaker 1: plains of Africa with his lions, and zebras and elephants
Speaker 1: and shit. Right, another goes on the water, another goes
Speaker 1: to San Francisco. All three of those aliens are going
Speaker 1: to report seeing different things and having different experiences, and
Speaker 1: yet they were all on planet Earth. So the way
Speaker 1: I see it, these spirit realms, of these mystic realms
Speaker 1: are probably far more diverse than Earth itself. So that
Speaker 1: could be an other reason why there's you know, perhaps
Speaker 1: we're actually meeting different entities. Perhaps it's not so much that,
Speaker 1: you know, Sean, Jonathan and I are all meeting the
Speaker 1: same thing, like, uh, you know, I'm calling it Hegita,
Speaker 1: you're calling it whatever you know, Jenna. I don't know
Speaker 1: why that is so hegitated Jenna, And let's say eambe
Speaker 1: from the Illucinian Mysteries. Maybe it's not that. Maybe we're
Speaker 1: not all meeting the same thing and just calling it
Speaker 1: something different. Maybe we're meeting three different things, just like
Speaker 1: the three aliens meeting fish, zebras and people.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Man, there's there's a lot of weird shit that
Speaker 3: goes on within psychedelics. And what is especially crazy is that,
Speaker 3: for some reason or another, Now I could see how
Speaker 3: somebody might listen to a show like this, and maybe
Speaker 3: they are atheist or maybe they're religious, and they're just
Speaker 3: kind of one track mind. They have it all figured
Speaker 3: out and everything outside of it is not real or
Speaker 3: it's evil or whatever. Right, But like, this was always
Speaker 3: something that was so fascinating to me that every time
Speaker 3: I would call upon a specific god or a specific
Speaker 3: deity or anything like that, it seems to work in
Speaker 3: its own way. Now if it was all fake, like
Speaker 3: I feel like the only way that you can call
Speaker 3: it all fake is if your awareness in picking up
Speaker 3: on the synchronicities and the messages from the universe or whatever.
Speaker 3: That's the only way you can call it fake is
Speaker 3: just because you don't you're not made aware of, you know,
Speaker 3: the manifestation of it in one way or another. But
Speaker 3: for those of us who kind of are a little
Speaker 3: bit more on the aware side, trying to be a
Speaker 3: little bit more aware every single day, but like, there's
Speaker 3: absolutely something going on, and I wonder, does it even matter?
Speaker 3: Does it matter to the energy or the entity on
Speaker 3: the receiving side of our prayer or meditation or spell
Speaker 3: or anything like that what we call them, or is
Speaker 3: that kind of our call signal to get in touch
Speaker 3: with them.
Speaker 1: That's that's a great question. So I don't think that
Speaker 1: those things, any of those things, actually have names in
Speaker 1: the sense that they are forces, in the sense of
Speaker 1: like gravity doesn't know that we call gravity gravity, you know,
Speaker 1: So I don't. I don't believe they have a name.
Speaker 1: From my interaction with them. They do understand that that's
Speaker 1: a very human thing to name everything, so they don't
Speaker 1: care that I do it. Like the the universal force
Speaker 1: of life and consciousness that I call Gaya does like
Speaker 1: it responds to that, because that's how it realizes that
Speaker 1: I recognize it. You know, even though it recognizes itself,
Speaker 1: it does not have a name anymore than the ocean
Speaker 1: has a name or gravity.
Speaker 3: Has any Yes, Yes, I like that a lot. And
Speaker 3: that makes a lot of sense, which would make a
Speaker 3: lot of sense as to you know, we had a buddy,
Speaker 3: what was it, Mark, He's better known as the Mirror,
Speaker 3: but we had him on the show and he goes.
Speaker 3: You know, if if people just talk more about how
Speaker 3: God made them feel instead of arguing what God's real
Speaker 3: name is, I think we would all get see, like,
Speaker 3: we would be all on the same page, right, But
Speaker 3: everybody's like, no, his name is God, or his name
Speaker 3: is Jesus, or his name is whatever, right allah? And
Speaker 3: it's like, man who gives a flying fuck what their
Speaker 3: names are. I don't even think they care. I mean,
Speaker 3: how many times have we changed Jesus's name for fox sake?
Speaker 4: You know, Like, what's the common denominator? What's the thing
Speaker 4: that can connect us all and have us all realize like, oh,
Speaker 4: you don't have to be wrong. I don't have to
Speaker 4: be right, you know. I think that's where it would
Speaker 4: be really nice to get to that point one day.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, totally. I think. Well, with the issue is
Speaker 1: there are some there are certain ideas that are built
Speaker 1: into some religions that don't allow for that. Like so
Speaker 1: it's just one example. Like I don't have a problem
Speaker 1: with Christianity at all. I think it is a very
Speaker 1: fine religion. I have Christian friends. They're all chill, like
Speaker 1: they know that I'm psychedelic and witchy and all that.
Speaker 1: They don't care at all. But like, the one issue
Speaker 1: I have is just a one line. Nobody gets to
Speaker 1: the Father but through me. If you get rid of
Speaker 1: that one line, I have zero problem with one hundred
Speaker 1: percent of Christianity. It's that one line that kind of
Speaker 1: I'm like, ah, you know, and.
Speaker 3: People take it literal.
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, people take it literal. And it's interesting because
Speaker 1: in the the uh, the Jesus Seminar's version of the
Speaker 1: Gospels where they you know, they have the red letter
Speaker 1: words and they would put a if you're maybe your
Speaker 1: listeners may or may not be familiar, so if just
Speaker 1: back up real quick and explain it. The Jesus Seminar
Speaker 1: is a group of I think it's like eighty some
Speaker 1: scholars that get together that would debate over what they
Speaker 1: would call the red letter words of Jesus. And they
Speaker 1: were just you know, using historical methodology try to determine
Speaker 1: what Jesus actually said. And in this particular version of
Speaker 1: the Bible that I have, the things that they think
Speaker 1: he said are in read the things that they are
Speaker 1: pretty certain he didn't say, or in like gray or
Speaker 1: black if I recall or one of them is like
Speaker 1: probably not and the other one is absolutely not. Anyway,
Speaker 1: that line nobody gets to the Father but through me
Speaker 1: is in either gray or black. I forget which one,
Speaker 1: but it's okay, Like it's nobody, like the top scholars
Speaker 1: of the world don't even think that, like, that's one
Speaker 1: of the things Jesus would have actually said.
Speaker 4: I wonder even how they wouldn't go about that.
Speaker 1: It doesn't make any sense, Like with Jesus' original theology,
Speaker 1: it doesn't make sense.
Speaker 4: Right, And I guess that's how they would go about it.
Speaker 4: But like, how would they know of if any of
Speaker 4: that is what he said, you know, for any kind
Speaker 4: of certainty?
Speaker 1: Of course, yeah, you know, there's different criteria, and like
Speaker 1: we don't one hundred percent. Nobody knows for certain, you know,
Speaker 1: one hundred percent, no one knows for certain, But you
Speaker 1: look at certain things, like so let's just say in
Speaker 1: John chapter four, verse twenty seven, I believe, uh, don't
Speaker 1: quote me on that, but it says they were the
Speaker 1: scribes and the Pharisees, I believe one of them. It
Speaker 1: says they were surprised to see Jesus speaking with women,
Speaker 1: and not that that's a Jesus saying something, but it
Speaker 1: does lend credence to the idea that he did have
Speaker 1: women within his circle, because that's not the kind of thing.
Speaker 1: You know, it's highly patriarchal those days, and you know,
Speaker 1: to have women within your circle. I mean that just
Speaker 1: pretty much brought your whole message in your group down.
Speaker 1: It's like, look, he's comboarding with women. We can't take
Speaker 1: him seriously. And the fact that that's recorded is very like,
Speaker 1: oh okay, like if somebody were just making that up,
Speaker 1: you wouldn't probably wouldn't have made that up. I think
Speaker 1: Jose that says that, like a women's testimony was only
Speaker 1: worth half a man's in court in those days, so
Speaker 1: you wouldn't have women, especially as the witnesses like to
Speaker 1: the resurrection or the resurrection whatever, you know, whatever happened,
Speaker 1: but unless something went down, you wouldn't have put the
Speaker 1: women there unless something actually happened and the women were
Speaker 1: there to witness it. So it's stuff like.
Speaker 4: That's a good point.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's more or less. That's how that's known as
Speaker 1: the criterion of embarrassment. And there's other ones, you know,
Speaker 1: but we don't need to talk about historical Jesus criteria.
Speaker 1: It's very boring. Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well look, I mean you had mentioned about so
Speaker 3: you believe that you can you describe what you mean
Speaker 3: whenever you say the word gaya, like you just think
Speaker 3: that that's kind of everything, all encompassing.
Speaker 1: No, no, not all everything, all encompassing is it's sort
Speaker 1: of the material universe what gya is is, or it's
Speaker 1: easy to explain, like this, Our ability to speak to
Speaker 1: each other, to be alive, to communicate, to have special meaning,
Speaker 1: that is guya. Oh, that's what guya is now. Our
Speaker 1: ability to use our consciousness and our life to make
Speaker 1: decisions to better ourselves that is hectay. And should those
Speaker 1: decisions actually make us better or worse? Well? That is
Speaker 1: seriously so it is life and consciousness choice and the
Speaker 1: evolution or de evolution based on those choices.
Speaker 3: Oh wow, okay, okay, interesting, Yeah, that is interesting. I
Speaker 3: never thought about looking at it that way, but it
Speaker 3: does check out. How did you come to that.
Speaker 1: Eating a lot of mushrooms and drinking a lot of
Speaker 1: ayahuasca and talking to the goddesses and just asking them
Speaker 1: what do you think about this? Does this work? Like?
Speaker 1: Am I wrong here? And yeah? Sometimes I like, yeah,
Speaker 1: you're a totally pull of shit, like that's not how
Speaker 1: we do it at all, you know, And other times
Speaker 1: like yeah, you're you're kind of getting there, And other
Speaker 1: times it's just like yeah, they just say hey, like like.
Speaker 4: This, Oh my god, I gotta believe it.
Speaker 3: We had this. We had this guy on that uh
Speaker 3: that runs an ayahuasca clinic. I guess you could call
Speaker 3: it in where was it, like South America somewhere, and man,
Speaker 3: he was Columbia, that's right. And he was like, man,
Speaker 3: you guys got to try it. And we were like,
Speaker 3: I don't know, dude, that shit seems scary to us.
Speaker 3: You know, I can't because it's it's like a two
Speaker 3: or three four day process and you're you're tripping balls
Speaker 3: for how many hours? And I'm like no, no.
Speaker 1: No, no, no no. So you do, like yeah, most
Speaker 1: of the time, you do iahuasca three nights in a row,
Speaker 1: which is convenient for me because I have three main
Speaker 1: goddesses of my pantheon, so I can invoke one each
Speaker 1: night pretty much. It's like this mushrooms showed me that
Speaker 1: the goddesses, in God's entities, all of it is real.
Speaker 1: Ayahuasca is the entity incarnated inside yourself, inside your soul
Speaker 1: like that, Like ayahuasca is the goddess incarnate, like you
Speaker 1: take like entheogenic in its purest form, you are taking
Speaker 1: the divinity inside you through the beverage, and it is Wow,
Speaker 1: it's phenomenal. I mean, I have a whole protocol. When
Speaker 1: I do it, like I do a lesser mystery before
Speaker 1: each night with each goddess, Like I get real witchy
Speaker 1: with it.
Speaker 3: That's awesome. Yeah, we looked up We love looking at
Speaker 3: like certain etymologies of words and whatnot, but looking up
Speaker 3: the etymology of Anthea, which is literally just like n
Speaker 3: is within and then theos is god, so it's kind
Speaker 3: of like the god within, and so it's crazy how
Speaker 3: it's literally built into the word that is used to
Speaker 3: describe that substance and super cool. We've had some crazy
Speaker 3: experiences on other psychedelics as well, but we actually said
Speaker 3: no more psychedelics in twenty twenty six. We're going to
Speaker 3: we're going full send in twenty twenty seven. But twenty
Speaker 3: twenty six we're like, all right, we got to take
Speaker 3: a break. We'll just get high in meditation or something
Speaker 3: like that.
Speaker 4: We're going to meditate. We're gonna you know, really try
Speaker 4: to understand our own mind for a bit, you know,
Speaker 4: because don't get me wrong, you know, we had some
Speaker 4: really good times and there was some really good insights
Speaker 4: and really ego shattering stuff, you know, and realizing like, oh,
Speaker 4: you know, this this thing is just so much bigger
Speaker 4: than I thought. And I'm also I'm that as well,
Speaker 4: you know. And that was like a huge thing for
Speaker 4: me to just like really realize because for so long
Speaker 4: I felt like I was somehow separate from everything else
Speaker 4: that was me and then there was just everything outside
Speaker 4: of me as a whole separate thing. But when you
Speaker 4: realize that it's all just this one big thing and
Speaker 4: you're just a piece of it, like that was a
Speaker 4: huge thing for me. And I got that for mushrooms,
Speaker 4: you know, and uh but yeah, but then we had
Speaker 4: a really really scary time and that was oh man,
Speaker 4: it was it was somewhat of a death initiation of sorts,
Speaker 4: Like that's what it felt like. It was like one
Speaker 4: of those things you just don't come back the same
Speaker 4: ever again. But but actually it did changes for like
Speaker 4: the better. Oh yeah, I was back at it fondly. Now.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, did you do it in like a savored
Speaker 1: like a ritualized context.
Speaker 4: But yeah, it was just in my living room. Yeah,
Speaker 4: that's probably where we went wrong.
Speaker 1: But I mean I always just recommend to people like
Speaker 1: if you're having bad trips or anything like that, uh
Speaker 1: you know, like cast a circle, like keep any kind
Speaker 1: of negative entities away. Look like, first and foremost, recognize
Speaker 1: that you are opening doors, you are opening portals, Like
Speaker 1: so if that's not something that you're gonna be comfortable
Speaker 1: with or you think that can just be easily dismissed
Speaker 1: once the trip ends. Sometimes, like people will report just
Speaker 1: like shitty things happening, either while they're tripping or immediately
Speaker 1: like within a day or two after, like something horrible happened.
Speaker 1: And I'll always ask like, well, did you do it
Speaker 1: in a ritual Settingly of the time they say no,
Speaker 1: They're like.
Speaker 4: No, we were in Shawn's living room. It's like, could.
Speaker 3: You describe a little bit more of a sacred setting?
Speaker 4: Though?
Speaker 3: Now you said the circle and everything, but is there
Speaker 3: anything else that you set up beforehand?
Speaker 1: Oh dude, Yeah, like when I do when I eat
Speaker 1: mushrooms or drink I was It's like there's like a
Speaker 1: whole thing. So I mentioned before, like I said, like,
Speaker 1: I'll do a lesser mystery. What I mean by that is,
Speaker 1: I'll like do like a smaller just magical spell without
Speaker 1: what I call a sacra medicine, which would be like
Speaker 1: an entheogen, because some people call them sacraments. What that
Speaker 1: which they are. Some people call them medicines with that
Speaker 1: which they are, so I say sacra medicine because I
Speaker 1: think that that term suits them. So I'll do the
Speaker 1: lesser mystery without any sacram medicine. And yeah, they'll be
Speaker 1: depending on what Goddess I'm invoking, I'll use difference. I'
Speaker 1: let's say I'm invoking sears. The things that I will
Speaker 1: burn an homage like cannabis is one of her sacred plants,
Speaker 1: even though not technically a plant, but ndma is also
Speaker 1: sacred to seriously, so I'll burn a little ndma as well,
Speaker 1: And but I won't take any you know, I'll usually
Speaker 1: play a song on my guitar. I'll sing to the
Speaker 1: goddess again, and they'll just be more prayers and chants
Speaker 1: in Latin and things like that. I mean, I can
Speaker 1: get my spell book out and read to you with
Speaker 1: you know, but again it's it might not be all
Speaker 1: that interesting.
Speaker 3: Oh my god, you go all the way out. That's
Speaker 3: how I don't like. I believe that that's probably how
Speaker 3: it's supposed to be done, and that's probably how a
Speaker 3: lot of the ancients used to do it as well.
Speaker 3: I mean, you think, like think about it, Like how
Speaker 3: you just said, like you call it a sacrament or
Speaker 3: a medicine, and how many different religions talk about a sacrament, right,
Speaker 3: And I feel like a lot of this stuff maybe
Speaker 3: you wouldn't even notice is going on without the sacrament, right,
Speaker 3: Like without the mushrooms, without the d MT or the
Speaker 3: ayahuasca or whatever. That causes you to be blasted off
Speaker 3: into this kind of newer state of awareness. Yeah. I
Speaker 3: And that's where you know, we've talked about like ergot
Speaker 3: being found in the in the bottom of some chalices
Speaker 3: and whatnot. Do you think that they actually were like
Speaker 3: tripping balls back in the day, not necessarily tripping balls
Speaker 3: like in a fun party sense, but tripping in order
Speaker 3: to access the divine.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean that's that's the way I do it.
Speaker 1: Like anytime I eat mushrooms or drink ayeuasc, I'm doing
Speaker 1: it to access the divine. I think that that's at
Speaker 1: least for me, I think that that's really what they're
Speaker 1: here for. Like the the mental health and psychological aspects
Speaker 1: of it cannot be denied without a doubt, and I'm
Speaker 1: a big fan of that stuff. But for me, I mean,
Speaker 1: like the true power, like psyche it's in the mystical realm,
Speaker 1: it's in the spiritual realms. It's it's conversing with entities
Speaker 1: and goddesses and bringing that that that timeless wisdom back
Speaker 1: into your own life as best you can, because it's hard,
Speaker 1: you know, being a human pain in the as.
Speaker 3: Yes, Oh dude, it's the worst. But I'm just kidding,
Speaker 3: it's not that bad. So whenever you say that you're
Speaker 3: conversing with you know, gods and goddesses and stuff like that.
Speaker 3: Whenever you're in your psychedelics, can you kind of walk
Speaker 3: us through exactly what is going on now? Of course,
Speaker 3: this is not happening outside of you, right, Like, this
Speaker 3: is going on almost in your mind's eye is where
Speaker 3: these conversations are being had.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, for the most part. Yeah, you want me
Speaker 1: to describe. I actually like if you're like, I can
Speaker 1: do that for you. Hold on a second.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was. I just want to try and get
Speaker 3: the mental image because I think that a lot of
Speaker 3: people have experienced a lot of really out there things
Speaker 3: on psychedelics, but I've I personally, I've I've never seen
Speaker 3: an entity or anything like that, Like while I was
Speaker 3: on psychedelics, I've I heard and I felt one, which
Speaker 3: was really strange, but I never saw one like in
Speaker 3: my mind.
Speaker 1: Okay, so this I mean, let me get uh take dude. Okay,
Speaker 1: so I mean this will probably take about two minutes,
Speaker 1: if that's okay. I don't you know, I don't want
Speaker 1: to take too much.
Speaker 4: You know, that's what we're here for.
Speaker 1: Okay. So it's funny you asked me this because I'm I'm,
Speaker 1: like I said, I'm actually working on a book right
Speaker 1: now on these things. And I just finished a part
Speaker 1: where I am I just drunk my second dose of ayahuasca,
Speaker 1: having performed the Lesser Mystery to Hecita, And this is
Speaker 1: the experience of pushing past hyperspace into the mystical realm
Speaker 1: and meeting Hecita.
Speaker 4: Is that that sounds awesome?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 3: Hell yeah, Okay.
Speaker 1: I laid back on my mat and closed my eyes.
Speaker 1: I started to feel that old familiar rumble in my stomach.
Speaker 1: Not a vomiting, no, a feeling of the ever growing
Speaker 1: awareness of divine presence, a presence that is not asking
Speaker 1: attention but desiring reception, something far beyond the entities of hyperspace,
Speaker 1: far beyond the elf clown's genius, which can certainly mimic profundity,
Speaker 1: but never quite sustain it. The music began to catch
Speaker 1: up with my desire. At first, it was subtle. The
Speaker 1: ecodos were already flowing through Morgan That's my friend. Where
Speaker 1: we did this through Morgan's living room, weaving that familiar
Speaker 1: serpentine path through the ceremony space. I had been listening, intentionally,
Speaker 1: letting them wash over me like the gentle current of
Speaker 1: a river song. But something shifted. The rhythm no longer
Speaker 1: moved around me. It moved through me, merging with that
Speaker 1: ever growing glow in my stomach. I felt myself slipping
Speaker 1: into an energetic alignment with the music, as if my
Speaker 1: inner tempo had locked into its pulse. Only now I
Speaker 1: wasn't just listening. The melody started to penetrate my body.
Speaker 1: The more I concentrated, the more the sacred rhythm intensified
Speaker 1: in my bone, matter, in my cells. The chanting grew louder, richer,
Speaker 1: more insistent. As the room began to expand beyond its
Speaker 1: physical boundaries, Walls softened, corners dissolved, the air became an instrument.
Speaker 1: I sat up and looked around the room. My friends,
Speaker 1: the other participants, the Iowa sceatos, all composed of strings
Speaker 1: vibrating at different intensities. I laid back down on my mat,
Speaker 1: closed my eyes and closed my eyes excuse me, and
Speaker 1: returned to hyperspace. The strings were there too. I was
Speaker 1: now seeing the outline of hyperspace based on how the
Speaker 1: strings were interacting in Morgan's living room, the thought forms,
Speaker 1: the body plans that terrain the stars and galaxies. The
Speaker 1: strings themselves started to crack. With each deliberate focus of intention,
Speaker 1: the sound amplified, not merely in volume, but in presence.
Speaker 1: The music began to feel less like sound more like force,
Speaker 1: a summoning force. That's when I felt it, the upward pull.
Speaker 1: I started to lift out of hyperspace, as if it
Speaker 1: were only a membrane, a shivering intermediary between worlds. The
Speaker 1: einsoft ore which is a cabalistic term, and I was
Speaker 1: being drawn toward the einsoft which is another cabalistic term.
Speaker 1: The seemingly infinite missival reality, so crystalline and iridescent and glorious,
Speaker 1: supporting the machinery of hyperspace, which in turn pours its
Speaker 1: psychic essence into materialism, came into view. All cracks began
Speaker 1: to tear, the strings, hyperspace, the darkness of the outer regions,
Speaker 1: All of it split open, like billion year old fabric
Speaker 1: under strain. That familiar blackness punctured by stars gave way
Speaker 1: to something entirely different. Thousands upon thousands of multicolored gems
Speaker 1: suspended in impossible death depth, not floating so much as
Speaker 1: radiating in their own existence in at that moment, a
Speaker 1: consecrated truth, a culta scientia, announced itself with absolute clarity.
Speaker 1: Music brings the Goddess. Music brings the Goddess. I began
Speaker 1: chanting slowly, each word falling perfectly into the rhythm of
Speaker 1: the eco. The gems began to soften, their edges, blurring,
Speaker 1: melting into one another as if heated from within. Music
Speaker 1: brings the Goddess. Colors emerged that had no conceivable name,
Speaker 1: Hues that do not exist on any earthly spectrum, splattering
Speaker 1: across my perception like molten rainbows. Music brings the Goddess.
Speaker 1: My stomach broke open, gushing cool breezes of weightless ecstasy
Speaker 1: throughout my older body. This was something old, clean, deep
Speaker 1: and holy. Music brings the Goddess. The colors enveloped me,
Speaker 1: saturating my awareness until any distinction between seeing and being
Speaker 1: seen started to fray. The music started to bleed into
Speaker 1: sounds of unearthly tambre. I was no longer hearing the ecoos.
Speaker 1: The melody had transformed into something vast, grand and resonant, angelic,
Speaker 1: a harmonic architecture reverberating across every threat of existence. It
Speaker 1: wasn't coming from anywhere, it was everywhere, a divine resonance
Speaker 1: that had been playing since the beginning of time, waiting
Speaker 1: for consciousness to tune into it, the coronation hymn for
Speaker 1: the cosmos itself. This was the melody that has pulsed
Speaker 1: through reality ever since that first beat, when Gaya detached
Speaker 1: from God, when different differentiation began, when time itself was born.
Speaker 1: The tempo that shaped worlds through eons of light, the
Speaker 1: cadence that governs incarnation. This was the heralding of Hecate.
Speaker 1: As the music found residential pockets in every inch of air,
Speaker 1: my visual field shifted again. Bits of round sky and
Speaker 1: space turned upward, coalescing into a massive black and white
Speaker 1: checkered mound. It rose rapidly skyward, bringing all of reality
Speaker 1: with it, swallowing nearly my entire field of vision. The
Speaker 1: pattern pulsed in time with the music, as if each
Speaker 1: square were a note in a sacred symphony. From above,
Speaker 1: vines of the richest, most luminous green cascaded downward, draping
Speaker 1: themselves over the growing checkered mound, like living ornamentation. The
Speaker 1: divine music intensified its rhythm, sculpting the form taking shape
Speaker 1: before me. From its bulky middle, two thinge gelatinous shafts emerged,
Speaker 1: slowly rotating outward like the blades of a ceiling fan.
Speaker 1: As they lengthened, they thickened, gaining definition, taking on the
Speaker 1: unmistakable contours of arms. Within moments, those arms had tipped
Speaker 1: into hands, each containing only three fingers. Out of each
Speaker 1: hand grew two long shafts, whose tops burst into solar flares.
Speaker 1: As the flames grew, the light unlocked deeper levels of
Speaker 1: the space. All around me, geometric patterns, angels, or at
Speaker 1: least what I interpreted as such, and other spiritual beings
Speaker 1: of nothing more than splashes of light and lustrous colors,
Speaker 1: looked upon this strange mortal Among them, there were whole
Speaker 1: galaxies of them. Out of one of the three mounds,
Speaker 1: the one on my left hand side, thinned out and
Speaker 1: began to whip itself back and forth, adding a raspy,
Speaker 1: reverberating hiss to the rattles of the divine music. Another mound,
Speaker 1: the one on my right hand side, shook violently, releasing
Speaker 1: a roar that thundered across the skies. The central form
Speaker 1: between his and roar inhaled, deeply exhale. I could see it,
Speaker 1: the skeletal architecture of three faces forming simultaneously a serpent,
Speaker 1: a lieon as a woman, bone, flesh and intension weaving
Speaker 1: themselves into expression, materializing like fruit of the most savage
Speaker 1: and savory knowledge. The outlines of eyes, noses, and mouths
Speaker 1: burned into the three mound tops, like sigils being carved
Speaker 1: into reality itself. Then all three sets of eyes opened,
Speaker 1: Each pupil contained the brilliance of a thousand sons, each
Speaker 1: iris a million more.
Speaker 6: She was here, hektay, Holy shit, that was awesome, amazing,
Speaker 6: Oh my god, I felt like I was in that
Speaker 6: journey with you, dude.
Speaker 3: Yeah, honestly, like the way you described it. I started
Speaker 3: to trip a little bit. Not gonna lie, but it's, man,
Speaker 3: what that is crazy, that's exactly. And dude, all right,
Speaker 3: because I was thinking a million different things. Every time
Speaker 3: you said something awesome, I'm like, oh, that reminds me
Speaker 3: of this. That reminds me of that. One of the
Speaker 3: things that you were talking about is that whenever you're
Speaker 3: coming in contact with all these different visuals and you're
Speaker 3: kind of becoming aware of what's really going on with it.
Speaker 3: Not to take it too far off track, but like
Speaker 3: whenever people talk about aliens being I don't know, bipede
Speaker 3: creatures that are walking around and or or pleadians or
Speaker 3: anything like that, like, and then I go into or
Speaker 3: we go into that psychedelic realm to where we're allowed
Speaker 3: to perceive a lot more. I never see anything like that.
Speaker 3: It's a lot more like what you just described, you know,
Speaker 3: like and maybe they abstract and maybe they all exist
Speaker 3: there too, I don't know. But if they're coming from
Speaker 3: other dimensions or anything like that, I imagine it is a
Speaker 3: lot more seemingly to us in the third dimension to
Speaker 3: be a lot more abstract in the way that you describe,
Speaker 3: rather than something that is in our image.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I mean, even the same goddess will show
Speaker 1: up in different ways. That, like, it's not like it's
Speaker 1: not a constant form either, because again we're we're talking
Speaker 1: about a like an energy, We're talking about a pulse here.
Speaker 1: You know that that are our minds are to some
Speaker 1: extent playing a role in how we shape that. Now
Speaker 1: there's nothing anybody can do about that, Like we're just
Speaker 1: we're stuck with that. I mean even just seeing each other,
Speaker 1: like we see colors differently from each other. I mean,
Speaker 1: there's the same basic red shape, but there's gonna be
Speaker 1: slight changes in the hue that you know, you'll pick
Speaker 1: up on that I might not. So yeah, and with
Speaker 1: like so the last time I sat with Guya, I mean,
Speaker 1: it wasn't there wasn't a womanly figure there at all.
Speaker 1: It was just light like there, there wasn't there wasn't
Speaker 1: shape to it. It was just a light thing. But
Speaker 1: I knew it was Guya. I recognized it as such.
Speaker 3: Did did Guya give off I don't know, some somewhat
Speaker 3: of a what we might call a personality?
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, exactly. Yeah, Yeah, it's a yeah, it's it's
Speaker 1: you're sort of your when I do certain spells and things,
Speaker 1: like I said, I do that lesser mystery it's to
Speaker 1: get my my antent ready to receive, because again, the
Speaker 1: mysical realm is fucking huge. I mean, there's all kinds
Speaker 1: of shit in there. You know, there's nothing of the
Speaker 1: size of hyperspace. But so you gotta be you know.
Speaker 1: I it's sort of like if you were to I
Speaker 1: won't say I write a letter because people don't do that.
Speaker 1: If you would have send an email, right John, if
Speaker 1: you would have send an email to Sean, and let's
Speaker 1: say Sean's email was Sean one two three at gmail
Speaker 1: dot com. If you put Sean one to two at
Speaker 1: gmail dot com, your email's not gonna make it there
Speaker 1: because it's not properly addressed. So one of the things
Speaker 1: I used the Lesser Mystery for is to properly address
Speaker 1: the Goddess. And like that whole thing I read you
Speaker 1: like before that, which I wasn't going to get into.
Speaker 1: But it's me discussing the Lesser Mystery and how I
Speaker 1: set it up so that I could meet Guya excuse
Speaker 1: me in this case hechotech.
Speaker 3: Oh my god, now, just out of curiosity, just to
Speaker 3: take it to the next level here, if that's possible.
Speaker 3: Whenever you are in the same level of awareness with Gaya,
Speaker 3: What are you represented as to her?
Speaker 1: You know, I don't like, how is guy of you
Speaker 1: and me? Is that what you're asking me?
Speaker 4: Like?
Speaker 3: What are you to that?
Speaker 1: I think we're a recognition of life and consciousness of
Speaker 1: what she is actually embedded in a person or in
Speaker 1: a living or not a living, in a material form,
Speaker 1: because life, in a way and consciousness are immaterial things.
Speaker 1: Like you can't put consciousness in a jar. When you
Speaker 1: put it in a human being, you're actually seeing this
Speaker 1: higher form of consciousness in a material body.
Speaker 4: M Oh my god, can't put consciousness in a jar,
Speaker 4: but when you do, it becomes the jar.
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly like that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, dude, oh man, that is I love it because I,
Speaker 3: like I said, I mean, I've only ever experienced what
Speaker 3: may seemingly be abstract in that realm. Now, the first
Speaker 3: time I ever did DMT, not the second time, I'm
Speaker 3: not gonna speak of that, but the first time I
Speaker 3: ever did DMT, I was like out floating, seemingly floating
Speaker 3: in the universe, and I saw what looked like Saturn.
Speaker 3: I don't know if it was Saturn or not, but
Speaker 3: it looked like the rings around a planet. And I
Speaker 3: saw this golden ball that it had like a bunch
Speaker 3: of I don't know, different kind of writing all over.
Speaker 3: It could have been Egyptian, could have been Chinese. I
Speaker 3: don't know what the fuck it was. It just seemed
Speaker 3: like archaic almost, And and but in front of me
Speaker 3: there was like all these like I don't know, they
Speaker 3: kind of look like pole noodles or if you ever
Speaker 3: seen like outside of cell phone stores they got the
Speaker 3: blowing machine. Yeah, the stated blowing machine. It looked like
Speaker 3: a shitload of those that were obstructing my view so
Speaker 3: that I couldn't see Saturn right. So but I was
Speaker 3: able to push those to the side, and I was
Speaker 3: able to see Saturn and within the rings of Saturn,
Speaker 3: which it didn't look like dust particles or anything like that.
Speaker 3: It almost looked like plasma or fluid or something like that.
Speaker 3: And I saw that gold ball in there, and I
Speaker 3: was like, oh, like, I don't know. In my mind,
Speaker 3: I was like, I wonder what that thing feels like.
Speaker 3: As soon as I had that thought, it was in
Speaker 3: my hand and I'm holding this ball. It's like no
Speaker 3: bigger than a softball, and I'm holding it, and it was,
Speaker 3: for some reason the most mystical experience I ever had,
Speaker 3: and I still don't know why, and I don't even
Speaker 3: know what the reason for it was. But have you
Speaker 3: ever experienced anything like that to where you're just like,
Speaker 3: you're just experiencing this weird, abstract shit, but for some
Speaker 3: reason it is so emotional and so meaningful to you,
Speaker 3: and then you don't know what to do with that
Speaker 3: information in the real world.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I mean, I don't know that I've had
Speaker 1: when the one I'm thinking of is you were asking
Speaker 1: the question. I don't know that I had an emotional attachment,
Speaker 1: but it was it's sort of adjacent to your story.
Speaker 1: I was in I was in hyperspace and I had
Speaker 1: actually gotten there on mushrooms. It was the first time
Speaker 1: it ever happened. And there was this pentagram that kept
Speaker 1: unfolding and then refolding back as the golden ratio, just
Speaker 1: over and over, and it was so cool, and I know,
Speaker 1: like it kept trying to tell me something about that,
Speaker 1: but like unfortunate, I'm a humanity's guy. My math is nonexistent.
Speaker 1: So it was like one of those situations was like, God,
Speaker 1: I'm too dumb to understand what this this thing is
Speaker 1: trying to tell me like it's so cool, and I
Speaker 1: know it's trying to tell me something. It's definitely trying
Speaker 1: to communicate, but I don't understand its language at all.
Speaker 4: It's interesting that you bring that up. But we were
Speaker 4: talking about ducktails and all of that. There was an
Speaker 4: episode or maybe it was a movie. I'm not sure,
Speaker 4: but it was one of those Disney ones or whatever,
Speaker 4: but they were actually teaching you about like magic right,
Speaker 4: and and the pagram and the golden ratio. I remember
Speaker 4: all of that was thrown in there, and it was
Speaker 4: just like, you know, so it's like, I don't know,
Speaker 4: maybe there is something to that as far as like
Speaker 4: someone else is picking that up putting it down. You know,
Speaker 4: we're they're showing us and you know, and then we're
Speaker 4: having these crazy experiences and oh yeah, I hearse something to.
Speaker 1: It when I but when I first started eating mushrooms,
Speaker 1: like when I was about eighteen years old or so,
Speaker 1: like I was like convinced like, oh yeah, this is
Speaker 1: like where they get ideas for cartoons like the Smurfs
Speaker 1: that they live in mushrooms or that Mary'll get the mushrooms.
Speaker 1: Now I don't actually know, but for me, it's just
Speaker 1: at all, you know, locked in perverting place.
Speaker 4: But that's that's kind of what I think about when
Speaker 4: it comes to like the the divine nature of things,
Speaker 4: or even the the idea of God or or something
Speaker 4: so so much more powerful than we are outside of us.
Speaker 4: I feel like maybe mushrooms and things of that nature
Speaker 4: brought that on. Like what came first, you know, God
Speaker 4: or psychedelics right, Like I don't know. I'm like right
Speaker 4: there right now.
Speaker 1: I think that what what what things like mushrooms, ayahuasca,
Speaker 1: da torah, eboga I find at least for me, I
Speaker 1: think that those that's essentially how God speaks directly to
Speaker 1: us and gives us that direct experience of like for me,
Speaker 1: it becomes undeniable, especially with like five me O d
Speaker 1: m T. If I was ever if there was any ever,
Speaker 1: any hope for me to be an atheist, like I
Speaker 1: can't because of five HEMEO d m T. It's just impossible,
Speaker 1: like experience, Yeah, I can't know it.
Speaker 3: That's a shout out to the toad.
Speaker 1: Got out to the toad absolutely, And you know, if
Speaker 1: somebody were to say to me, oh well, it's just
Speaker 1: a drug experience, it's like I feel so bad for you,
Speaker 1: Like because you you don't you not only don't know
Speaker 1: what you're talking about, but because you are having arrogance
Speaker 1: about it, you are never going to actually see this.
Speaker 1: It was like going back to when we were just
Speaker 1: talking about magic earlier. I forget News said there was
Speaker 1: a quote, but it's like, if you don't believe in magic,
Speaker 1: you're never gonna find it.
Speaker 4: Yeah, you'll never experience it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're never Yeah, you'll always come up with an
Speaker 1: excuse why it's something else. And in fact, I was
Speaker 1: talking to do you know what, Peter Bogosian. Yes, So
Speaker 1: he's a friend of mine and we had dinner one
Speaker 1: night and we were talking. He's an atheist and he
Speaker 1: wrote a book called a Manual for Creating Atheists, and
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, that's funny. I'm writing a manual
Speaker 1: for how to create more psychedelic witches. And so he
Speaker 1: was asking me, you know, well, what is my method
Speaker 1: for error correction? Like and that's a great question, like
Speaker 1: how do I know if I'm right or wrong about
Speaker 1: this stuff? And very excellent question. I have a few answers.
Speaker 1: First and foremost, if I were actually making up these goddesses,
Speaker 1: they wouldn't look how they look when I see them.
Speaker 1: I don't know if you how old you guys are,
Speaker 1: but you might some of your listeners might be familiar
Speaker 1: with the band Lords of Acid from the nineties.
Speaker 3: Okay, yeah, I'm thirty five, so that's okay.
Speaker 1: I was born in ninety just yeah, just a little
Speaker 1: before your time, just slightly. Anyway, if you were to
Speaker 1: look up Lords of Acid Voodoo, you you'll see these
Speaker 1: Coop Devil girls. If I were making up Guy a
Speaker 1: Hecata and seriously, they'd be fucking they'd be looking like
Speaker 1: those devil girls, just saying like that's first and foremost.
Speaker 3: What was the name of the song?
Speaker 1: Oh, the album is called Voodoo the oo D I
Speaker 1: think oo dash and just the letter you gotcha?
Speaker 4: All right?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I want to pull that up. Oh it has
Speaker 3: like the two Devil chicks on it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, exactly, Yeah, yeah, I think a lot of
Speaker 1: people have it's it's it's a they're like the Coop
Speaker 1: is the name of the artist. It's a pretty famous. Uh.
Speaker 1: I guess we're doing a screen share here. Yeahs exactly. Anyway,
Speaker 1: if I were making up Gaya or they'd be looking
Speaker 1: like that.
Speaker 3: Oh hell, yeah, you figure rut hanging.
Speaker 1: Out of the mouth and everything. You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: Second thing is that they say things to me that
Speaker 1: I wouldn't have made up, Like I'm not. Look, one
Speaker 1: of the reasons I do history is because I'm not
Speaker 1: that creative. Like there are things that I've seen that
Speaker 1: I can't I don't have the ability to think of
Speaker 1: this stuff. When I've asked my God said, oh is
Speaker 1: this is like this practice? Okay, like when you asked
Speaker 1: me earlier, you know, like where do I how do
Speaker 1: I come up with this? It's like I ask them.
Speaker 1: Sometimes they say, yeah, I'm doing it right. Sometimes they
Speaker 1: say I'm doing it wrong. So like if I were
Speaker 1: making it up, wouldn't it just be all the way
Speaker 1: one way or all the way the other way? Like
Speaker 1: every time? You know, and it's just another thing. And
Speaker 1: this is the hardest part for people. You guys will
Speaker 1: understand it, but people who haven't had like that deep
Speaker 1: endeogenic experience won't get this. When you're speaking to an entity,
Speaker 1: you can tell that it's not your thoughts because you
Speaker 1: don't know what it's going to say any more than
Speaker 1: Jonathan Jean any more than I know what either one
Speaker 1: of you are about to say. And when I'm in
Speaker 1: that space, like, yeah, my brain will get like bifurcated, triforgain.
Speaker 1: I could see like different areas of where my thoughts are.
Speaker 1: But when I'm talking to God, it's not coming from me.
Speaker 1: And unless you've been there, it's very difficult, and I
Speaker 1: can understand why somebody would be skeptical. But if you
Speaker 1: have actually been in that space, you would know what
Speaker 1: I mean when I say that, you know when it's
Speaker 1: coming from something else and when it's coming from you.
Speaker 4: Yeah, when it shocks you. You know, when it's almost
Speaker 4: startles you because you weren't even really expecting it. I've
Speaker 4: had that before where it was like WHOA, what was that?
Speaker 1: You know?
Speaker 4: One time it was made me feel kind of uneasy
Speaker 4: because it was one time where it said something and
Speaker 4: today I don't remember what it was, but it was
Speaker 4: only a few words, you know, And then all of
Speaker 4: a sudden, it was like this laughter, you know, not
Speaker 4: like a I don't know, like a friendly person laughing
Speaker 4: at you or laughing with you, but like like almost
Speaker 4: a maniacal kind of laugh. And I was like, oh,
Speaker 4: like kind of scared the shit out of me. And
Speaker 4: I know that that wasn't me for sure? Why you know, like,
Speaker 4: why would I do that? I mean, sure, you can
Speaker 4: argue that, well, you know, you go to sleep at
Speaker 4: night and you have a nightmare, and that's you doing
Speaker 4: that to yourself or that's coming from you, or at
Speaker 4: least that's what most people would think. But when I
Speaker 4: heard whatever that was, and it was so distinctly not me,
Speaker 4: like I know exactly what you're talking about.
Speaker 1: Sure, but yeah, sure, up to your point, when you
Speaker 1: wake up, Like so when that happens, is that true?
Speaker 1: Like you haven't that make you wake up? Do you
Speaker 1: have any questions to whether or not you just had
Speaker 1: a nightmare woke up and it came from inside you?
Speaker 4: Do I have any questions? As far as say that again,
Speaker 4: I'm sorry, Do you.
Speaker 1: Have any questions that it was all just a dream?
Speaker 4: No?
Speaker 1: No, of course not, because it was just a dream.
Speaker 1: When you're actually talking to an entity, it's a totally
Speaker 1: different thing.
Speaker 4: Well, and that's the thing too. When I heard that
Speaker 4: laugh or whatever, I wasn't asleep, you know, I was
Speaker 4: just in like a really deep meditative, almost asleep type mindset.
Speaker 4: So yeah, it was super strange, man, It kind of
Speaker 4: scared me. I was like, what was that? You know?
Speaker 4: And that was it. It didn't do anything else after that.
Speaker 4: You know, maybe it knew it spooked me a little
Speaker 4: bit and was like, oh I went too far.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: Good thing.
Speaker 3: Don't you think though that dreams and nightmares and psychedelics
Speaker 3: they they kind of cross swords a little bit, though,
Speaker 3: wouldn't you say, Like you're putting yourself in a state
Speaker 3: of mind to be able to perceive something other that
Speaker 3: you otherwise wouldn't be right, It's kind of similar.
Speaker 1: Well, I mean I sometimes do it on purpose, like
Speaker 1: with omini a muscaria. That's the famous red top white
Speaker 1: spotted mushroom. You see them in fairy tales and smart
Speaker 1: houses and.
Speaker 3: All that reindeers love them? Was that the reindeer love them?
Speaker 1: Yeah, the reindeer do love it. I love them too.
Speaker 1: I eat omnia like three times four times a week,
Speaker 1: like for a dream. Yeah no, because it's seriously like
Speaker 1: so again, like there is there are medicinal benefits to
Speaker 1: all of these medicines. Like without medicinal benefits of medicines,
Speaker 1: that's redundant. But you know what I'm saying, Like there
Speaker 1: are absolutely medicinal benefits to them. But what I'm hoping
Speaker 1: to sort of help like people understand better is like
Speaker 1: there are occult parts to these things as well, and
Speaker 1: why you can use Omnium muscaria both to micro dose.
Speaker 1: It's great for micro dos and and just like it
Speaker 1: has great somatic effects, like if you have aches or
Speaker 1: pains on your body, it's great for that as well.
Speaker 1: But it's true power rests in the dream realm because
Speaker 1: when you take omni like I take om need to
Speaker 1: Mascaria before bed, especially sometimes I'll make a potion of Omanito, Mascaria,
Speaker 1: mug wart and blue lotus, and the dreams are so
Speaker 1: they're lucid, they're vivid, They're saturated with symbolism and meaning
Speaker 1: I can have like I could fly whenever I want,
Speaker 1: and flying dreams are the best and Omanita flying dreams
Speaker 1: are phenomenal because when you wake up, you don't feel like, ah,
Speaker 1: show that was a dream with Dominiti, Like fuck, I
Speaker 1: was just flying last night, like like seriously, it feels real.
Speaker 4: It's so cool, bro, we're.
Speaker 3: Talking just Dominitamyscaria, blue lotus, and mug wart combined into
Speaker 3: one thing. I can't even that sounds awesome.
Speaker 4: Night.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I love that you're taking it right before
Speaker 3: you go to sleep so that you can experience this
Speaker 3: kind of stuff within a dream.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, there's a whole like so the
Speaker 1: the the mixture, it's five grams of mugwort, five grams
Speaker 1: of blue lotus, and eight grams of Omnium scaria.
Speaker 3: Oh okay, I know that Amininum ascaria is very different
Speaker 3: from other kind of psychedelic mushrooms, like as far as
Speaker 3: the the experience goes. So eight grams of it is
Speaker 3: not like a heroic dosage by any means, right, No.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's yeah, exactly like eight grams of amanita is
Speaker 1: I mean, I would say it's kind of equivalent to
Speaker 1: maybe half an eighth of psilocybin. Oh okay, that split
Speaker 1: in eighth with a body and you sort of kind
Speaker 1: of like you have one foot in like you're tripping.
Speaker 4: But it's not like a total Broiders are a little
Speaker 4: bit different. The sunlight's coming in a little bit rainbowish colors.
Speaker 7: Yeah, but yeah amanita, Yeah, about eight grams, you're looking
Speaker 7: at that between five and eight of course, depending on
Speaker 7: you know, body size tolerance.
Speaker 1: All that stuff gets factored in as well. But whereas
Speaker 1: for like a breakthrough with Almanita, you're looking at between
Speaker 1: like ten closer to fifteen grams.
Speaker 3: Okay, Now, if I remember correctly, you're a you. You
Speaker 3: go out and forge these yourself, right, Oh man, what
Speaker 3: just out of curiosity, what state are you living in?
Speaker 1: I live in Oregon. I live in Portland, Oregon. I
Speaker 1: go to the coast.
Speaker 3: Okay, so that's like pretty prominent towards that way.
Speaker 1: Then, Oh yeah, they're all over the place out here.
Speaker 1: I love It's one of the reasons, you know what.
Speaker 1: I'm born and raised in New York, and I gotta
Speaker 1: tell you, man, I did not like the rain at all.
Speaker 1: Now that I've lived in Oregon for going on ooh
Speaker 1: eleven years now, now I love the rain because when
Speaker 1: it rains, I know that it's just bringing mushrooms.
Speaker 4: So I love that. Yeah, you know what, Tom, it is.
Speaker 4: It's funny because you were talking about I wanted to
Speaker 4: mention something like we were talking earlier about how we
Speaker 4: can't find a common denominator as far as like what
Speaker 4: people believe in all of that, Like can we all
Speaker 4: just agree that flying in dreams is the best thing,
Speaker 4: you know, Like we all. Nobody's like I don't want
Speaker 4: to fly in my dream. Everybody loves thefing like that's
Speaker 4: the number one thing we want to do as soon
Speaker 4: as we realize we're lucid, exactly if you can become lucid.
Speaker 4: I feel like I haven't had a lucid dream, and
Speaker 4: I don't even know how long.
Speaker 1: I'minate a mascar and my friend all right, all right,
Speaker 1: dominated mascall, they'll clear that right up.
Speaker 4: All right.
Speaker 3: I need to find if any of that grows in
Speaker 3: the South. I live in Texas. I can't. I mean,
Speaker 3: do you think that that grows anywhere other than the
Speaker 3: moist right outside of Houston?
Speaker 1: So I guess, So is that more central uh?
Speaker 3: Eastern Mari?
Speaker 1: Yeah, because you're closer to Louisiana, right, yes, Okay, no,
Speaker 1: you you there, there's a you might be able to
Speaker 1: find some ominida. So the thing about the United States
Speaker 1: is funny, is Amanita is pretty prevalent everywhere except there's
Speaker 1: this one scary strip from essentially like North Dakota down
Speaker 1: where there's just no amanita at all. Because that's we're
Speaker 1: all like the plains and the grasslands and all that shit,
Speaker 1: you know, the cornfields and everything, and then you get
Speaker 1: down into Texas, it's getting into desert, so you don't
Speaker 1: have the omnita for that whole stretch, that whole vertical stretch.
Speaker 3: Okay, so they're like pretty prominent in Louisiana. Then oh yeah,
Speaker 3: oh my god, Louisiana tomorrow.
Speaker 1: So Louisiana is the only state in the United States
Speaker 1: where domini and mascaria is illegal. State.
Speaker 3: Yeah, they haven't even legalized weed over there yet. I'm like,
Speaker 3: what are you doing, dude? Come on really, yeah.
Speaker 1: Wow, get on board with like the twenty first century.
Speaker 3: I mean, they don't give a fuck when anybody does
Speaker 3: for Marti Gras, but you know, three hundred and sixty
Speaker 3: two other days out of the year it's illegal. You know,
Speaker 3: it's it's crazy.
Speaker 4: They were smoking marijuana cigarette.
Speaker 1: Smoke two joints in the moment.
Speaker 4: I used to I used to. For whatever reason, I
Speaker 4: can't smoke weed anymore. Like it's just like not agreeing
Speaker 4: with me anymore. Yeah, I don't know, I don't know
Speaker 4: what the deal is.
Speaker 1: It's just as much as I used to. I mean,
Speaker 1: I feel you, man, I used to be Yeah, like
Speaker 1: smoke two joints in the morning and like, what a
Speaker 1: joy to be in my twenties, right, But I can't
Speaker 1: do that anymore. Yeah.
Speaker 4: I felt like you could just wake up and just
Speaker 4: smoke and just get to the level and go like,
Speaker 4: oh I feel great, I feel good. I when to
Speaker 4: go and just enjoyed the rest of my day. Now
Speaker 4: it's like anxiety and stress and like, I don't know.
Speaker 1: Man, I'll just get retired too soon, Like I won't
Speaker 1: get anxiety or stress. I'll just be like and I
Speaker 1: don't I like to I like cannabis, like saving it
Speaker 1: for at night. I don't know. I just think it's better.
Speaker 4: Mm hmm.
Speaker 1: I just like that.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, Now just to go back to the Amanador
Speaker 3: real quick, because I'm super curious about this since I'm
Speaker 3: going there tomorrow. Is there any because I know that
Speaker 3: forging for mushrooms can be a bit dangerous because a
Speaker 3: lot of the mushrooms look very similar and you don't
Speaker 3: know if you're getting the good guy or the poisonous kind.
Speaker 3: Is there a look alike with Amanita muscaria that you
Speaker 3: shouldn't touch, or if it looks like Amanita, it's okay.
Speaker 1: So the awesome thing about the Omanito mascaria is that
Speaker 1: there are no deadly lookikes. Okay, nominido mascaria does not
Speaker 1: look like any other there's it's either an ominio mascari
Speaker 1: or it's not. Now, there are varieties within amanita, so
Speaker 1: I think that. But in Louisiana, you guys would get
Speaker 1: the amanita muscaria var persissina. I think that's what's around there,
Speaker 1: which might have more of a like an orange or
Speaker 1: yellow flare to it. Like around here we get the amanita,
Speaker 1: we get muscaria, but we also get uh ominito mascaria
Speaker 1: var formosa. And there's another one. I forget what it's called,
Speaker 1: but anyway, the foremost is like way more orange and yellow.
Speaker 1: There's also the panther cap is around here that's brown.
Speaker 1: But the ones that will kill you, like the the
Speaker 1: omanito wirola. It's a totally white mushroom. There's no red,
Speaker 1: there's no color to it at all. Like you can't
Speaker 1: miscake anything, you can't escape for anything. I said, I think,
Speaker 1: I said, we're roll I met weirosa excuse wosa. The
Speaker 1: amanita floides is the same thing, like it's like this
Speaker 1: piss yellow brown color and you look at it and
Speaker 1: you wouldn't want to eat it, you know. Right, So
Speaker 1: there's there are a few deadly ones. But again especially
Speaker 1: with the amanito mascari itself like the bright red there's
Speaker 1: no other mushroom that looks like it. And with the
Speaker 1: other varieties that like with Amanito, the ones that are
Speaker 1: going to kill you don't look like an omnitum mascari
Speaker 1: at all, whereas the ones that are still edible, they'll
Speaker 1: they'll kind of look like the dominitum mascaria. They just
Speaker 1: might be a little bit more orange or a little
Speaker 1: bit more yellow.
Speaker 3: You know what's funny is is that the Dominie muscaria
Speaker 3: it looks like it wants to be eaten, you know
Speaker 3: what I'm saying, Like it looks like a candy. It's
Speaker 3: almost like inviting you to eat it. I love it,
Speaker 3: I know, like it's it's it's its purpose to exist
Speaker 3: inside of you, to give you this experience.
Speaker 1: You're making a grab my amanite and have a little
Speaker 1: bit because you're making me want of you.
Speaker 3: Let's go.
Speaker 4: It's crazy that that the earth makes mushrooms that will
Speaker 4: get you to see God and also mushrooms that'll just
Speaker 4: end you. Yeah, and then you see God.
Speaker 1: Right, I agree? I I mean, these are more with Amanita,
Speaker 1: so like wow, with psilocybin mushrooms, Like I'm by my altar,
Speaker 1: I'm doing all my little witchy stuff. I'm no longer
Speaker 1: in my altar space. I'm in the other world with Amanita.
Speaker 1: What it does is it brings the other world to me,
Speaker 1: like it enchants my whole space, and that's all. I
Speaker 1: love the Smiffero.
Speaker 4: Chance, can you show us one of them? I don't
Speaker 4: know if I've ever actually seen one of those, like, oh.
Speaker 3: Wow, interesting, Yeah, I've I've seen, you know, just the
Speaker 3: the top red and white caps, you know, like like
Speaker 3: you know in uh Super Mario and right, and how
Speaker 3: long do you got to dry those babies out for?
Speaker 1: So you get a dehydrator and you just set it
Speaker 1: to one hundred and sixty five degrees before you go
Speaker 1: to bed. You wake up, they're.
Speaker 3: Ready really okay? All right, I'm doing eight hours or so.
Speaker 3: All right, twenty twenty six might be off the table, Sean,
Speaker 3: I'm sorry if I find.
Speaker 4: These things, hey do you dude? You all right? I mean,
Speaker 4: I'm just not ready.
Speaker 3: I like the fact that you know, you can eat
Speaker 3: so much of them and only have like a quarter
Speaker 3: of a trip that's that seems fun to me.
Speaker 4: I don't.
Speaker 3: I don't need to blast off to you know, have
Speaker 3: a fucking near death experience to enjoy these kind of things.
Speaker 4: No, I'm to the point where I don't really need
Speaker 4: my entire reality to just seem like chaos. You know,
Speaker 4: like I'm okay with like the different colors and you know,
Speaker 4: the introspective thoughts, but like, I don't need everything to
Speaker 4: just seem like it's closing in on me and I
Speaker 4: can't handle.
Speaker 1: That's the thing, man, if you like with with ritual work,
Speaker 1: Like for me, psychedelgic experiences are not chaotic at all,
Speaker 1: Like they're really not. They're actually like very I mean,
Speaker 1: I don't know if sober is the right word or sobering,
Speaker 1: but they're very clear and like there's no there's no
Speaker 1: I don't have like much like a lot of questions
Speaker 1: about them. There's no trickery with them, like I've heard
Speaker 1: some people say, like, oh, mushrooms are tricksters. It's like, no,
Speaker 1: they're not not for me, Like they they've always been
Speaker 1: gentle and kind and open to sharing their wisdom, right
Speaker 1: you know.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's how it seems okay, I'm sorry, No, go
Speaker 4: for it.
Speaker 1: Go for it.
Speaker 4: I was just gonna say, usually that seems how it
Speaker 4: how it is like you you, it's you seem very
Speaker 4: clear and and and like just alive, and like everything
Speaker 4: else seems much more alive. And and I've had those
Speaker 4: experiences like what you're trying to describe, but this last
Speaker 4: time like going up, like when the when the roller
Speaker 4: coaster was starting to go up, and I was really
Speaker 4: starting to like lose track of what I knew to
Speaker 4: be familiar, you know, like that kind of would just
Speaker 4: was just shedding away. And so like we were in
Speaker 4: my backyard and I got some weeds growing, you know,
Speaker 4: and the breeze was blowing a little bit, and everything
Speaker 4: just seemed like too it was just too much, you
Speaker 4: know to take in.
Speaker 3: To be fair, it wasn't mushrooms. It was for a
Speaker 3: C O D M T. But it's like adelic experience.
Speaker 4: I guess, wow, yeah, ok, yeah, but but so yeah,
Speaker 4: it was. It was it was just and what the
Speaker 4: way that I can explain that, or at least how
Speaker 4: I see it is that like everything that I knew
Speaker 4: to be familiar, like the the models within my mind
Speaker 4: that tells me what things are without really having to
Speaker 4: think about it. You know, it's it just is it's
Speaker 4: already kind of in my programming or my mind, all
Speaker 4: of that was going away, and so now it's just
Speaker 4: like all of this information that my mind feels that
Speaker 4: it has to try to process and and kind of
Speaker 4: not figure out but get refamiliarized with what's happening, you
Speaker 4: know what I'm saying. And so everything was just like, dude,
Speaker 4: I was talking to him. Jonathan was keeping me cool.
Speaker 4: He's like, ah, you're good, dude, don't even worry. And
Speaker 4: I was like, yeah, dude, I don't know, man, this
Speaker 4: is just too much. And I was looking up and
Speaker 4: I was I was just tripping basically, you know what
Speaker 4: I mean. But after that I calmed down. You know.
Speaker 4: It was just it was just going up the roller coaster.
Speaker 4: Once I got up there, I was like, Okay, I'm good,
Speaker 4: you know, but it was good.
Speaker 1: Shit, dude, that's a lot of people like I've been
Speaker 1: there too, sometimes like back in the day that hasn't
Speaker 1: happened a long time. But yeah, like the come up
Speaker 1: can be a little like oh shit, you know, like
Speaker 1: ring yeah, like because did I do it right? Like
Speaker 1: did I step on the wrong cosmic toes or like
Speaker 1: like am I like, am I going to be welcome
Speaker 1: this time? And we always are? I mean at least
Speaker 1: I always am. And I don't know.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean after that, it was fine, you know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but yeah, I just let that worry. Like I
Speaker 1: know that. Believe me when I say I know that
Speaker 1: feeling very well, but I I found that it just
Speaker 1: I was making myself uneasy for no reason. Yeah, because
Speaker 1: every time when I finally break through to your point,
Speaker 1: Sean is like, oh, it's always awesome. Yeah, And so
Speaker 1: I finally just got to a point where I stopped
Speaker 1: all together, even having like allowing that worry to come,
Speaker 1: because it's always fucking awesome once you get to the
Speaker 1: other side.
Speaker 4: Yeah, once you get to the other side, like all
Speaker 4: of the models are still kind of gone, but you're
Speaker 4: comfortable with there now and now you just get to
Speaker 4: joy observing things almost for the first time, and you
Speaker 4: could just space right.
Speaker 1: Yeah. It's it's kind of like getting into like a
Speaker 1: pool that's either a little too hot or a little
Speaker 1: too cold, but after you're in there for a little bit,
Speaker 1: your your body's adjusted and you're like, Okay, this is fine,
Speaker 1: you know, mm hmm.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a it can be a full on mystical
Speaker 3: experience once you cross that home, you know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. And that's what I'm always shooting for, is
Speaker 1: I want the fall out. Like I don't do this
Speaker 1: stuff if not for the mystical experience. I wouldn't like
Speaker 1: if it didn't have that aspect of it, I would
Speaker 1: not eat mushrooms ever. The reason too.
Speaker 3: Yeah, if it's just to see pretty colors, I'm like, Okay,
Speaker 3: I'll put on some fucking weird colored goggles or something
Speaker 3: like that, but.
Speaker 1: Just go for a hike. I mean, just go sit
Speaker 1: over and look out on a sunset, on a landscape.
Speaker 1: I mean you'll get a I mean I'll get absolutely
Speaker 1: a feeling of transcendence from that. I love that. Or
Speaker 1: on the beach or just like on a on a
Speaker 1: like beautiful summer night if you're down like where you
Speaker 1: are South. But it's like I'll be in Florida and
Speaker 1: it's like the moon is fucking huge, and I don't know,
Speaker 1: like just seeing it go down on or come up
Speaker 1: rather or both, depending on what kind of drug you're on.
Speaker 1: Just it's always, I don't know, it's just beautiful.
Speaker 4: The drug. That's the thing that I find very interesting
Speaker 4: and very important about it is that it reminds you
Speaker 4: how amazing and how beautiful things are, you know, because
Speaker 4: we just get so used to it, you know, Like
Speaker 4: you don't sit there and think about, oh, the moon
Speaker 4: is just going around and like we're in space or whatever.
Speaker 4: The true reality of the situation is, right, You never
Speaker 4: really fully think about that until you get to this point,
Speaker 4: you know, and you start really thinking maybe you have
Speaker 4: an awakening and then you have some psychedelics and then
Speaker 4: you're just like you're just part of that and it's
Speaker 4: just so amazing, you know. And I think most people
Speaker 4: just kind of get used to that and they're just like,
Speaker 4: it's imagine seeing a sunset for the first time ever,
Speaker 4: you know what I mean. But people get to see
Speaker 4: it every day, so it's no big deal.
Speaker 3: Oh, just blissfully ecstatic, you know. And and just with
Speaker 3: all of your experience, not just with the psychedelics, but
Speaker 3: also the the the energies and the entities that you're
Speaker 3: connecting with, what do you think what do you think
Speaker 3: you actually are? Like, for example, where were you do
Speaker 3: you know? Have you ever gone and asked the question
Speaker 3: or experienced where you were before you were born.
Speaker 1: Yeah, pretty much. That's where five vimeo DMT take.
Speaker 3: Oh shit, all right, so do we just do we
Speaker 3: exist just as an energy and then we decide to
Speaker 3: come in incarnate as a human Like, what is that
Speaker 3: process to you?
Speaker 1: I don't know. So here's from at least from my
Speaker 1: experiences with five emeo dmt Ayahuasa mushrooms, it seems to
Speaker 1: be that we are essentially it's like this soup and
Speaker 1: when before you were born and after you die, you're
Speaker 1: going to go back to this soup. Now do we
Speaker 1: choose how we incarnate? John that I have no idea.
Speaker 1: I don't. I don't want to say I don't think
Speaker 1: so because I truly don't know, so I'll just leave
Speaker 1: it as an I don't know. But we just your
Speaker 1: your consciousness, your solely whatever you want to call it.
Speaker 1: It just it just comes from this thing, this place,
Speaker 1: and at some point it's just going to get shot
Speaker 1: out as something else in the universe. I mean. One
Speaker 1: of the things that when people talk to me about
Speaker 1: reincarnation and they like they're talking about having been on
Speaker 1: Earth in a past life, It's like, Wow, you really
Speaker 1: have no idea how big the goddamn universe is. Like
Speaker 1: if you think that, like, by the the luck of
Speaker 1: the draw, you ended up on Earth twice? Are you kidding?
Speaker 1: You know how many fucking life forms are out there.
Speaker 4: That you could have become infinite better odds of winning
Speaker 4: the lottery at that point?
Speaker 1: Yeah, right, exactly. So I just think that's kind of odd. Uh. Yeah,
Speaker 1: So I don't know if I truly do believe in reincarnating.
Speaker 1: I guess in a broad sense I do, because that's
Speaker 1: the sense of what we're talking about. I don't believe
Speaker 1: in it the way people talk about it. I guess,
Speaker 1: like I don't think that you were a fucking princess
Speaker 1: in your past life or whatever like that, you know,
Speaker 1: like that, I don't think, But I do think on
Speaker 1: a grander scale, Yeah, the essence whatever it is that's
Speaker 1: making you alive right now, like that thing that like
Speaker 1: when a person dies and like the fucking either the
Speaker 1: temperature or the pressure in the room drops because something
Speaker 1: just like whatever that is that goes back to the
Speaker 1: soup and I get shot out at some point of
Speaker 1: something else.
Speaker 3: Leave it up to a New Yorker to just call
Speaker 3: it a soup, you know, what I mean.
Speaker 4: Yeah, now that's what I think it is too, dude,
Speaker 4: I'm right there with you. I think I've said the
Speaker 4: exact words, like it's a soup, you know whatever that
Speaker 4: is the all encompassing, the cosmic soup.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, which is all minds, all lives, all everything.
Speaker 1: That's where it comes from, mensis, yeah, everything, Like that's
Speaker 1: for me, that's what I would call God. Is that
Speaker 1: that bulk, that soup whatever we want to call it,
Speaker 1: that mass of just where everything springs from. You know.
Speaker 1: It's funny because like when when atheists talk about they'll say,
Speaker 1: like there's only material reality, you only know one reality.
Speaker 1: It's like, dude, I know fucking at least three different
Speaker 1: realities beyond material reality, and one of them is the
Speaker 1: Godhead itself. The Godhead itself is a separate reality from
Speaker 1: the mystical or spiritual realm, which itself is a separate
Speaker 1: realm from hyperspace, which is a separate realm from you know,
Speaker 1: material existence where we are right now. They're different like
Speaker 1: ascending and descending like you know areas on material reality.
Speaker 3: One hundred percent. There's no way this is all there is.
Speaker 3: And I think that a lot of people could probably
Speaker 3: attest to that in billions of different ways, just through
Speaker 3: their own experiences. Maybe they don't know, you know, to
Speaker 3: put it in those words, but everybody's experienced something that
Speaker 3: is not of this world, you know, seemingly not of
Speaker 3: this world. Maybe they just called an illusion, maybe they
Speaker 3: called a dream, maybe they called a nightmare, maybe they
Speaker 3: called a trip. I don't know, but we've all experienced
Speaker 3: something along those lines that made you question if this
Speaker 3: is only all there is for sure?
Speaker 1: So I got on a tangent I was talking about
Speaker 1: when I was having dinner with Peter Bagosian, and you
Speaker 1: just brought us back to the point I was trying
Speaker 1: to make. But then I went off into out of
Speaker 1: space with whatever the hell I was saying. But he
Speaker 1: was asking me whether or not I had a error
Speaker 1: corrective mechanism for my beliefs. It turns out he, as
Speaker 1: an atheist, doesn't have that either. Like when like he's
Speaker 1: said like, well, well why, I said to him, like, dude,
Speaker 1: like if you like went outside and you looked and
Speaker 1: you saw and it was clearly like the sky split
Speaker 1: open and there was a voice said I am God,
Speaker 1: I am here. He's like, well, I would think I
Speaker 1: was under a misapprehension or I'd gone crazy. It's like, okay,
Speaker 1: so you don't have a er corrective method either, or
Speaker 1: you know, like for these questions anymore than a theist.
Speaker 3: Does, right, because even if you were.
Speaker 1: Shown it, you would still think it was something else.
Speaker 1: You wouldn't think it was a god. You would think
Speaker 1: it was whatever that you were hallucinating or something. So
Speaker 1: you don't have a corrective way of testing your beliefs either.
Speaker 4: Right.
Speaker 3: It's it's hard to put it into words because it
Speaker 3: almost seems like it can't be put into a box.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 3: That's really the whole reason why anybody whenever people try
Speaker 3: and describe it, When people try and describe Taoism, they
Speaker 3: say the same thing. You can't if you're trying to
Speaker 3: describe the Dow. And if somebody says that they can
Speaker 3: describe the Dow, they got it wrong. It's that there
Speaker 3: cannot be a definition for something that is so beyond
Speaker 3: anything we could ever perceive.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's the meat brain, and that that is the
Speaker 1: problem of the meat brain. Like with five, the first
Speaker 1: time I did five and MEO DMT, I got to
Speaker 1: see all of space and all of time from the
Speaker 1: Big Bang, to that moment, all of it. But right now,
Speaker 1: because I'm in my meat brain, I can't see it,
Speaker 1: like I can't actually produce a memory of it, but
Speaker 1: I know I saw it. It's a weird sort of
Speaker 1: sort of like straddling two realities within my own brain.
Speaker 1: But just to sort of emphasize your.
Speaker 3: Point, Jonathan, No, yeah, I know that, I know that feeling.
Speaker 3: It's that's why so many people come out speechless whenever
Speaker 3: they have ayahuasca or DMT, because it's like, oh my god,
Speaker 3: I saw I don't I don't know what it's called.
Speaker 3: I don't know how to describe it. I can't put
Speaker 3: it into words. And it's because it's it's too much.
Speaker 3: It's far too much, and it's fun trying to trying to,
Speaker 3: you know, describe it, but we can never do a justice.
Speaker 1: My band has a song titled Bigger Than We Can Imagine,
Speaker 1: which is about that concept that is just it's bigger
Speaker 1: than we can even wrap our heads around, as much
Speaker 1: as we try to describe it.
Speaker 3: Ah.
Speaker 4: Yeah, dude, you said you saw the Big Bang and
Speaker 4: what I'm sorry.
Speaker 1: So all of space and all like so essentially I
Speaker 1: the magician who gave me the five MEO said surrender
Speaker 1: and don't forget to breathe, and I took in a
Speaker 1: big hit and I exhaled, and as I exhaled, the
Speaker 1: smoke just essentially tore reality away, and I just saw
Speaker 1: just the big but like just all of space and
Speaker 1: time and reality everything just explode in that moment and
Speaker 1: create that soup that I was talking about, that all
Speaker 1: of reality is. And like it's not just like if
Speaker 1: for earth bound. It's not just Milky Way Galaxy bound.
Speaker 8: It's the whole and thing everything, And yeah, I just
Speaker 8: got to and now it's like I can sort of
Speaker 8: see it, like because I have that memory, but I
Speaker 8: can't actually produce fully the memory because I'm in my
Speaker 8: meat brain. And you gotta you gotta put the meat
Speaker 8: brain aside if you want to see the stuff.
Speaker 4: Because see at the very moment that the smoke tore
Speaker 4: the tour everything in half and and showed me that,
Speaker 4: I would be like I did too much like in
Speaker 4: that in those two seconds of while I'm still kind
Speaker 4: of me, I'd be like, oh shit, no, that's.
Speaker 1: The point, you know, Like I I this was so
Speaker 1: I was sort of it's weird. I was sort of
Speaker 1: dabbling with atheists. I don't know that I was ever
Speaker 1: fully an atheist, but I did get to a point
Speaker 1: where with mushrooms and I'm like, oh, like, am I
Speaker 1: just talking to myself? Is that with it?
Speaker 4: Like?
Speaker 1: Am I truly just making this all up? And five
Speaker 1: E meo DMT was my last ditch effort. I'm like, Okay,
Speaker 1: Like if I can't find that there is something real
Speaker 1: with this, because this is the end all be all.
Speaker 1: I mean, most people in my feel like we don't
Speaker 1: even call it a psychedelic because it's beyond that. I mean,
Speaker 1: it's the God molecule. That's what it really is. And
Speaker 1: so I'm like, well if it doesn't, if this doesn't
Speaker 1: do it, then nothing's going to it. Holy shit, it
Speaker 1: did it? Like Wow, did it do it? Like I
Speaker 1: can't be an atheist. I just it's it would it
Speaker 1: would be like somebody trying to convince me that this
Speaker 1: isn't like a mason jar with like a quarter of
Speaker 1: amount of water.
Speaker 4: And I was like, oh, like a clear, It's obviously
Speaker 4: it is.
Speaker 1: Yes, it's obviously what it is.
Speaker 4: Yeah, man, yeah, I might have to do some DMT
Speaker 4: at some point, Dude, I think that's just what I need,
Speaker 4: you know what I mean, Because I feel like I'm
Speaker 4: still like riding the offense of like, am I just
Speaker 4: being too deep with some of this stuff? Or am
Speaker 4: I you know what I'm saying? Is it all bullshit?
Speaker 4: Am I making it like how you were just saying?
Speaker 4: You know what I mean? Is it? Because I do
Speaker 4: believe that our minds are very powerful. I do believe
Speaker 4: that we are capable of creating spaces and really becoming
Speaker 4: very immersed in these spaces, whether it's in a meditation
Speaker 4: or you know whatever practice. And so that's why I'm
Speaker 4: I'm I feel like it's very possible to create a
Speaker 4: reality in which the divine or a god or or
Speaker 4: something much larger and more powerful than I can even
Speaker 4: imagine exists, you know. And so I guess DMT might
Speaker 4: be the thing that I need to just kind of
Speaker 4: like just solve it, you know, just.
Speaker 3: It's hard to crystallize it, I think without the experience.
Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, because you know, we've had experiences where
Speaker 4: we where we've seen orbs, and and even then I'm
Speaker 4: still like I go back and forth on that as well.
Speaker 4: But but but lately I haven't seen any like at all,
Speaker 4: like in probably a couple of months now, you know,
Speaker 4: And so maybe if I have some d MT and
Speaker 4: then I know, then all of the other stuff just says, Okay,
Speaker 4: you know now, so you're gonna be able to experience everything.
Speaker 3: What do you think is going on with all that
Speaker 3: ORB stuff? Like surely you've seen like videos or maybe
Speaker 3: you experienced it yourself, but like, what do you think
Speaker 3: is actually going on.
Speaker 1: That I I don't know. In fact, I was just
Speaker 1: in Tupolo, Mississippi, filming a documentary about alchemists doing d MT.
Speaker 1: It's an area of study my good friend and colleague
Speaker 1: Pete Newman is wrapped up with and he told me
Speaker 1: he's like, look like, I don't know if like by
Speaker 1: ORBS you mean like you know, a fo's or anything
Speaker 1: like that. But he's like, dude, they fly over his
Speaker 1: house every night. Like I'm like, for really, It's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: look like every single night I went out, I was
Speaker 1: there four nights. Every night, I saw like several UFOs,
Speaker 1: Like they're all over the place. I have no idea
Speaker 1: what they are, but I like they were clearly there
Speaker 1: and anybody that would go there, did you just look
Speaker 1: up You'll see them like it's not it's not like
Speaker 1: you don't need a telescope anything, Like they're fucking up
Speaker 1: there and they are moving in ways that you just
Speaker 1: you know, they just fucking fine then stop on a
Speaker 1: dime and then slowly start to float up. We don't
Speaker 1: have anything that can do that, you know, like it's insane.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, And man I I it feels like a
Speaker 3: spiritual experience when you're seeing it, And maybe that's just
Speaker 3: how our minds work, you know, the the unexplainable, the
Speaker 3: unknown is always going to be somewhat of a spiritual experience,
Speaker 3: what do you think, of course.
Speaker 1: And but there's also I think there's a part of
Speaker 1: it where like we've also been socialized to believe that
Speaker 1: if we have these experiences, we're either mistaken or we're crazy.
Speaker 1: And that goes back to the whole thing of like, well,
Speaker 1: if that's your if that's how you're going to frame it,
Speaker 1: then you're never going to discover anything with it or
Speaker 1: through it. Like that's never gonna happen. And it's me
Speaker 1: looking up at the sky on no psychodeal is not
Speaker 1: on anything, like, not even on fucking beer, for Christ's sake,
Speaker 1: just looking up and seeing those goddamn orbs, like and
Speaker 1: they're like very far up there, and there's a bunch
Speaker 1: of them and you see them all flying around. It
Speaker 1: is like, what the fuck? Like, they're not satellites. They're
Speaker 1: not like you can tell when it's a satellite.
Speaker 3: Yeah, these are not.
Speaker 1: That's not what these are. So I don't know what
Speaker 1: they are. I don't really, I don't. It's weird. I
Speaker 1: had this. I had this bias against orbs because when
Speaker 1: I first heard of them, I didn't really trust the
Speaker 1: lady that was telling me about them. So I've sort
Speaker 1: of always had a bias about them. But again, looking
Speaker 1: up and I've seen them, like, you know, I don't
Speaker 1: know if they are, but they're they.
Speaker 4: We're kind of all on the same boat when it
Speaker 4: comes to that. Then, you know, it's like we know
Speaker 4: they're there. You know, we've also all experienced it, but
Speaker 4: we don't really know what to do with it or
Speaker 4: what to call it or why it's there. You know.
Speaker 3: Yeah, dude, you know we actually speaking of orbs. What
Speaker 3: We just had a conversation with a gentleman last night
Speaker 3: who won I don't know if you've ever seen or
Speaker 3: heard of this, but it's the the psy games, like
Speaker 3: p s I games about people who are able to
Speaker 3: essentially use their their psychic abilities.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm familiar with SI. I know what you're talking about.
Speaker 3: So they had like the Olympic SI Games last year
Speaker 3: and he was he got first place and so talking
Speaker 3: I didn't know that, dude, fucking crazy. It's awesome. It's
Speaker 3: the first time they ever did it. So he's the
Speaker 3: he's the inaugural champion. So it's it's pretty uh one
Speaker 3: for the record books, you know, Ellieah, But do you
Speaker 3: think that through the use of psychedelics or through the
Speaker 3: use of ritual and and everything that you kind of
Speaker 3: work with, do you think that your psychic abilities have
Speaker 3: you know, gotten better or worse or do you feel
Speaker 3: more connected to this reality to where maybe you can
Speaker 3: influence things just with your thoughts or your energy.
Speaker 1: I will say this, the the only thing that I
Speaker 1: can that I'll say absolutely has been dream divination with
Speaker 1: Omanito Mascary. I've had a few dream divination omanitomscary experiences
Speaker 1: that that cannot be explained like any other way, that
Speaker 1: are just like two almost impossible to Like this past summer,
Speaker 1: I lost my business. I lost my community, I lost
Speaker 1: my livelihood. I had the mob come after me. Fucking
Speaker 1: The night before it happened, I had a dream about it,
Speaker 1: so much so that I pulled out my phone and
Speaker 1: for the first time in my life, recorded my dream
Speaker 1: and then texted a friend of mine who was in
Speaker 1: the dream and said, Yo, this just happened last night.
Speaker 1: I need you to keep a lookout for this, that
Speaker 1: and the other thing. Wow, all it was. It would
Speaker 1: take a very long time for me to unpack all
Speaker 1: of this, but it was just that was the craziest
Speaker 1: dream to the nation I've ever had. And and other
Speaker 1: things have happened as well. I had a really good
Speaker 1: one with a sort of a academic rival of mine
Speaker 1: where he kind of was just being awfuled towards me
Speaker 1: and just really not playing fair. And I had a
Speaker 1: dream of omannit it was an domanite, a flying dream
Speaker 1: where I was just flying over him. And it wasn't
Speaker 1: the next day, but it was like two days later.
Speaker 1: I just he I found out he just he got
Speaker 1: his come uppance in a way that just made me
Speaker 1: feel fucking great. I'm not gonna lie, but those are
Speaker 1: the kinds of things like and answer your question. Like, uh,
Speaker 1: as far as I wouldn't call myself particularly psychic at all,
Speaker 1: I had had Okay, the first time I ever did
Speaker 1: ask that, I had a crazy psychic experience with a
Speaker 1: friend of mine who we were literally reading each other's thoughts,
Speaker 1: like we could see each other the word in each
Speaker 1: other's mind. It was in Yeah, that was when I
Speaker 1: was nineteen. I've never had anything like that ever happen. Again.
Speaker 1: I mean, I've had cool things I got, like spirits
Speaker 1: and things like coming in that like other people also
Speaker 1: saw and like so Okay, in one example, I write
Speaker 1: about this in my last book. It's like the one
Speaker 1: sort of woo woo experience that I that I write
Speaker 1: about in this book because my publisher is like this
Speaker 1: major atheist public anyways, whatever. So the a few times
Speaker 1: ago when I did ayahuasca, I was actually I was
Speaker 1: with my friend Morgan, who when I was reading that
Speaker 1: thing I said, I was in my friend. We weren't
Speaker 1: in her living room, we were in this other place
Speaker 1: and me her and this girl we didn't know got
Speaker 1: possessed by this spirit that just came into the room
Speaker 1: and the three of us got up at the same
Speaker 1: time off of our mats like I mean, like literally
Speaker 1: like whoop, like at the same time, went to the
Speaker 1: center of the room and started dancing around the altar
Speaker 1: and just like as this thing was possessing us and
Speaker 1: we the three of us, are looking at it as
Speaker 1: it's doing it, and then it just let us go
Speaker 1: right back toward nets and it was like, yo, what
Speaker 1: the fuck? Like it was awesome?
Speaker 3: What awesome?
Speaker 4: Dude? Yeah, and everybody else with you was like yeah,
Speaker 4: did that just happen or like yeah, dude, that's the thing.
Speaker 1: Everybody like they were like, I don't know, like fifteen
Speaker 1: sixteen other people in the room, Like it was a
Speaker 1: big ayahuasca circle, which I personally don't really it's not
Speaker 1: my favorite setting, but uh no, but there were a
Speaker 1: lot of witnesses. Another time, so the second time I
Speaker 1: ever did ayahuasca, the uh the Iowa skeatta starts pouring
Speaker 1: out the dose right and I'm looking at her and
Speaker 1: there was this image like this like iridescent woman just
Speaker 1: appeared over her put her hand on the Iowa sca
Speaker 1: to pour more ayahuasca into the glass and so and
Speaker 1: I watched her do that. I so I take that
Speaker 1: and anyway, so I have a great experience. Afterward, we're
Speaker 1: smoking mapacha on my back porch and the Iowa scare
Speaker 1: says to me, it's like, you know, by the way,
Speaker 1: like she said, with that second dose, I was worried
Speaker 1: that I was. I might have given you too much.
Speaker 1: He's like, but you don't understand. She's like, this hand
Speaker 1: came on top of me, and I was like, I
Speaker 1: saw that. I swear like there was a woman. She's like,
Speaker 1: there was right. I'm like, yeah, like she was right
Speaker 1: over you and when you stop, she pushed your hand.
Speaker 4: But she's like, yeah, that gave me chill. Yeah, that's incredible.
Speaker 4: See stuff like that, Dude, whenever I hear someone experience
Speaker 4: something like that, obviously I believe what you're saying, because
Speaker 4: now it's bullshitting, right, that was real.
Speaker 3: It's not subjective anymore.
Speaker 1: Right, No, exactly, it's it's not subject like we both
Speaker 1: experienced that when my friend Morgan and that person. I
Speaker 1: still I don't even know what that young lady's name was. Like,
Speaker 1: we didn't plan an if it, Like, we just started
Speaker 1: dancing around and we could all see it. Like I've
Speaker 1: watched an Iowa scaurow. This is kind of funny. Suck
Speaker 1: an evil spirit out of somebody's nose with his nose
Speaker 1: and then farted out his ass and we all watched
Speaker 1: it happen.
Speaker 4: Like there were many witnesses to this, There.
Speaker 1: Were many to that most sacred fart.
Speaker 4: It's a hell of a technique, I will say.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 3: You know, you do kind of feel like you're releasing
Speaker 3: the demon every time you rip one, so maybe there's
Speaker 3: something to it.
Speaker 1: Not me, I'm releasing angels, baby.
Speaker 4: All right?
Speaker 3: So man, this has been so much fun and I
Speaker 3: have so many more questions, But I don't know how
Speaker 3: much are you in a hurry to get out of here?
Speaker 1: Like I got a little more. I mean, it's up
Speaker 1: to you. Like I said, I would let it flow.
Speaker 1: If you want to let it flow, will let it flow.
Speaker 1: If you gotta go, you gotta go.
Speaker 3: Perfect, all right? So okay, I I feel like there's
Speaker 3: been so many questions that have been flooding my mind
Speaker 3: and now it seems that they have escaped me. It's
Speaker 3: just part of podcasting in general.
Speaker 4: But oh yeah, it's a real struggle. Like you think
Speaker 4: you have something you're gonna say, and then as soon
Speaker 4: as it's like, oh it's my time to shine right,
Speaker 4: and then it's all gone and all the words that
Speaker 4: just came out were just going on with that. No,
Speaker 4: you're good, dude, this is this is great. I appreciate you.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, especially for like just a fun conversation like
Speaker 3: this for you just want to try and be a
Speaker 3: sponge and smoke smoke uh soak as much information as
Speaker 3: humanly possible. I love it. Whenever you're experiencing, so you
Speaker 3: go to your altar uh under the influence of antheagens,
Speaker 3: and whenever you go there, you're specifically calling somebody out
Speaker 3: to communicate with said entity or said enter right, like
Speaker 3: you go into it for a reason every time, yep.
Speaker 3: And what do you like, what is a typical reason
Speaker 3: to go into that to the altar to communicate with
Speaker 3: that specific entity? Can you give us an idea, like
Speaker 3: an example?
Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, absolutely so. As I was saying, this past summer,
Speaker 1: I had like the worst summer of my life. I
Speaker 1: lost my business, my community, like my whole life got
Speaker 1: torn apart. A week after that happened, I had three
Speaker 1: nights of ayahuasca and what it looked like for me
Speaker 1: was I needed to now find out what the hell
Speaker 1: I was going to be doing with the rest of
Speaker 1: my life and how I was ever going to move forward,
Speaker 1: because again, just all of a sudden, my whole life
Speaker 1: was just taken away from me. And so it was
Speaker 1: three nights and the first night I did my Lesser
Speaker 1: Mystery to the God is Searc and then later that
Speaker 1: night I did the Greater Mystery, which is when I
Speaker 1: actually take the sacra medicine, and I asked for her
Speaker 1: secret sacred word, which in this case turned out to
Speaker 1: be the word forgiveness. Now what I felt like at
Speaker 1: the time, and I didn't realize that I was wrong
Speaker 1: about this, was she was telling me that I needed
Speaker 1: to forgive the person who essentially ruined my life, or
Speaker 1: at least try to. Turns out he didn't at all,
Speaker 1: But I was wrong about that. What seriously was actually
Speaker 1: saying was that you need to forgive yourself because everybody
Speaker 1: makes mistakes, and like what's going on right now isn't
Speaker 1: actually justified at all, So we're not going to help
Speaker 1: you out unless you learn how to forgive yourself. Next
Speaker 1: night was with Hekate, and same thing. I do the
Speaker 1: lesser mystery beforehand. Then the Greater Mystery is actually taking
Speaker 1: the ayahuasca, and in this case, I've never I've never
Speaker 1: been comfortable in my body like ever in my whole life.
Speaker 1: And Hegate was like I kept trying to find her
Speaker 1: in the mystical realm, and what she was doing was
Speaker 1: she was testing me. She's like, no, I don't want
Speaker 1: to find I want you to find me within your body.
Speaker 1: She's like, I need you to actually start to like
Speaker 1: the body that you're in or I can't help you.
Speaker 1: I can't do anything for you. And so I ended
Speaker 1: up doing this really insane like dance to like the
Speaker 1: I don't know. It was awesome and sort of just
Speaker 1: fell into my body for the first time in my life.
Speaker 1: And then the third night was with Gaya and essentially
Speaker 1: this was just healing the parts of myself where I
Speaker 1: had gone wrong, because in order to grow, you do
Speaker 1: have to acknowledge where you messed up. You have to
Speaker 1: be able to see your role when everything goes wrong, right, you.
Speaker 4: Know, So.
Speaker 1: It was I essentially I'll never. I was with Guya
Speaker 1: and this is when I had mentioned earlier. She appeared
Speaker 1: as just light. It was just light, and I was
Speaker 1: standing next to her and she and I were together
Speaker 1: sort of like this holding this little baby that was
Speaker 1: essentially all of my traumas and fuck ups and gunk
Speaker 1: and shit, those parts of me, the shadows side, those
Speaker 1: parts of us that we reject, and we were just
Speaker 1: sitting there holding it, cradling it and giving it so
Speaker 1: much love, and in that moment, it's like, Okay, I
Speaker 1: am forgiving. I have to forgive. This is what cearsly said.
Speaker 1: The sacred word is forgiveness. I have to forgive this
Speaker 1: little child because it doesn't understand all of the shit
Speaker 1: that it is, you know, like that that's been put
Speaker 1: on top of it. Hekit has now from night two
Speaker 1: given me that choice, and Guy it tonight night three
Speaker 1: is allowing me to see that consciousness. And as I
Speaker 1: focused in on that little child of just shit and
Speaker 1: gunk and trauma and forgiving it, which would be forgiving myself,
Speaker 1: choosing that path, which was choosing the path for myself
Speaker 1: and seeing that consciousness that was my those parts of
Speaker 1: myself that aren't the best anyway. In that moment, the
Speaker 1: archangel Michael came up behind us, Guy and I and
Speaker 1: just wrapped its wings around us, and I was just
Speaker 1: in this cocoon of angel wings, just forgiving this little
Speaker 1: baby of my traumas.
Speaker 3: Oh my god, that's like transcendent shadow work.
Speaker 1: So what you asked, right, was that your question, how
Speaker 1: does it work?
Speaker 3: No, No, that's great. I love it.
Speaker 4: Man's that's a kind of giveness that you don't take
Speaker 4: just take back, you know. That's like sealed the deal.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there was This other part was actually the first
Speaker 1: time I ever met Gaya and realized that guy was
Speaker 1: Ayahwaski incarnate. This was cool. She'd asked me, like, why
Speaker 1: did I have these just negative feelings about myself? And
Speaker 1: I went and inside my body and I showed her.
Speaker 1: I'm like, well, look at my heart. It's disgusting. And
Speaker 1: you know, looking at it, there was just like this
Speaker 1: like gunkin mud that looked like it was like over
Speaker 1: this rock kind of thing. And she's like, no, She's like,
Speaker 1: that's not your heart at all. And she went over
Speaker 1: and she wiped it away and there was just this
Speaker 1: glass and underneath the glass there was this pristine heart
Speaker 1: and she's like, that's not your heart. She said, that's
Speaker 1: the protective layer I put over your heart to shield
Speaker 1: you from the evil of the world. It's like it
Speaker 1: just gets dirty. Sometimes we got to clean it off.
Speaker 3: Oh my god, that is so awesome and and so
Speaker 3: meaningful all of this. You know, I feel like especially
Speaker 3: in this day and age with social media and everybody's
Speaker 3: comparing themselves to everybody else, and a lot of people
Speaker 3: are very very materialistic and they find a lot of
Speaker 3: they think that they find a lot of meaning and
Speaker 3: the materialistic items until they're able to grasp them, and
Speaker 3: then it's like, well, what's the next materialistic item that
Speaker 3: can make me feel, you know, like I'm longing for something,
Speaker 3: But this is this is the root, man, So I'm
Speaker 3: happy that you said that. That is That is great.
Speaker 3: One last question I have for you. Sure, it's it's
Speaker 3: a very easy question. I think that you'll have an
Speaker 3: easy time answering it. What is the meaning of life?
Speaker 1: That's be happy and useful?
Speaker 3: Be happy and useful, beautiful?
Speaker 4: I love it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, dude, that sounds about right.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 3: That goes with pretty much what what everybody else says.
Speaker 3: You know that even the really just organizations and everything else,
Speaker 3: you know, just be of use and help. And yeah,
Speaker 3: I love that.
Speaker 4: Man.
Speaker 3: That's great.
Speaker 1: So find that they feed each other too. The more
Speaker 1: useful you are, the happy you are. The happy you are,
Speaker 1: the more useful you're gonna want to be. And it's
Speaker 1: just a beautiful siple of camaraderie and friendship and just
Speaker 1: trying to make the world a better.
Speaker 4: Place, the more energy to go around.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I love it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, just being of service. Well, look, every single episode
Speaker 3: we always do a Tarot reading at the end of
Speaker 3: the end of the show, and usually it in a
Speaker 3: weird way. It encompasses the energy of the show and
Speaker 3: one way or another, that's why we do it at
Speaker 3: the end, because we're just charging it up this whole time.
Speaker 4: Right, we got two cards today. Usually we just do one,
Speaker 4: you know, just to make it simple or whatever. But
Speaker 4: I just decided to do two of them and this
Speaker 4: is the first one we got. The Three of Wand's
Speaker 4: all right, the Three of Wands. Are you familiar with
Speaker 4: Taro a little?
Speaker 3: But yes, okay, we're the same. So we like to
Speaker 3: read from our handy dandy descriptive guide to hear the
Speaker 3: Three of Wand's adventure lies ahead of you as you
Speaker 3: expand into a new role or identity. You have plenty
Speaker 3: of support, filled with ambition and excitement. You're ready to
Speaker 3: expand into the next phase of your adventure. In the
Speaker 3: three of Wand's card, the man depicted in this card
Speaker 3: has his back turned, which means that as the viewer,
Speaker 3: you see what he sees. He stands between two wands
Speaker 3: plants it in the ground while he holds the third
Speaker 3: one for support. He gazes out towards ships on the water,
Speaker 3: indicating the expansive nature of his dealings and suggesting that
Speaker 3: he works well with a team. The support of others
Speaker 3: allows him to conserve his energy without burning out and
Speaker 3: positions him to direct his considerable prowess towards big picture tasks.
Speaker 3: And so the upright key meeting for it would be
Speaker 3: expansion and growth. It's kind of funny we were saying
Speaker 3: about how expansive everything is and pretty cool to have
Speaker 3: the support too, excellent.
Speaker 1: And what was the other card?
Speaker 4: The other card we got the World? Oh yeah, and
Speaker 4: we were just talking, you know, I mean, it fits.
Speaker 3: All right, the World card. A cycle is complete, but
Speaker 3: the end is also a new beginning. Rejoice as the
Speaker 3: world rewards you for your hard work. You are ready
Speaker 3: to receive the rewards that come from completing the journey
Speaker 3: of the Fool, which culminates in the World card. The
Speaker 3: figure on the World card holds a wand in each
Speaker 3: hand like the magician, symbolic of what has been created.
Speaker 3: A wreath encircles her, indicating victory and success. You'll notice
Speaker 3: similarities of the Wheel of Fortune card. A wreath is
Speaker 3: shown floating in the clouds, and the symbols of the
Speaker 3: fixed zodiac signs Aquarius for air, Leo for fire, Taurus
Speaker 3: for earth, and Scorpio for water are once again present,
Speaker 3: indicating these signs and elements where part of the hard
Speaker 3: work you put into completing this cycle. You will not
Speaker 3: go through a difficult time and come out empty handed.
Speaker 3: Celebrate the rewards that come from completion.
Speaker 1: Hell, yeah, that is a great reading. What are you
Speaker 1: using a Marseilles?
Speaker 2: Uh?
Speaker 1: What deck? You use?
Speaker 4: Just the right way?
Speaker 3: Yes Smith, Yes, yes, so yeah, dude. It's it's been
Speaker 3: very helpful along our journey, just as far as trying
Speaker 3: to understand symbolism a little bit more and and getting
Speaker 3: to know what each color means and what each element means,
Speaker 3: and you know, the all the numerology and all that
Speaker 3: kind of stuff. You know, could never get enough of it.
Speaker 4: It's been a bit of a synchronicity generator just for
Speaker 4: this show. Every episode it really tends to line up
Speaker 4: with exactly what we were we were just talking about
Speaker 4: and what was that thing that we were talking about
Speaker 4: before where it was like the uh, the hand holding
Speaker 4: the plant? What was that thing called? Were you like,
Speaker 4: plant the seeds?
Speaker 3: You know what I'm talking about, Oh, Anastasia or what
Speaker 3: is it called? Yeah, the Anastasia method.
Speaker 4: Yeah, So anyways, it was it was this whole thing
Speaker 4: about planting a seed. And anyway, the card that we
Speaker 4: got for that was this hand holding. It was the
Speaker 4: deck itself was slightly different, but it was basically the
Speaker 4: right of Way, you know, but it was a hand
Speaker 4: with stars in it holding a plant. And it was
Speaker 4: just like how there was no other card that could
Speaker 4: have worked out so perfectly, you know, And so I
Speaker 4: don't know, that's just one of those things that tends
Speaker 4: to happen, man, like wherever your mind goes, wherever the
Speaker 4: energy goes, like it just all sinks up and.
Speaker 3: Shows you it's the first synchronistic exactly.
Speaker 1: Like I do totally like it's so much of it
Speaker 1: is just about that alignment and not being scared to
Speaker 1: align with what you truly want. Because again, like we're
Speaker 1: taught like to have very unnatural relationships with the parts
Speaker 1: of us that are ambitious, and I don't know, like
Speaker 1: that's I think that that's wrong. I think we should.
Speaker 1: We're here to create, you know, and there's nothing more
Speaker 1: exciting than like being able to live off of your creations.
Speaker 1: I mean, at that point, you are just in alignment
Speaker 1: with the universe. So I don't know, I think people
Speaker 1: need to I hope people take that to heart, and
Speaker 1: you know, go out and live your dreams and fuck yeah.
Speaker 3: You know what, just one last thing you whenever I
Speaker 3: asked you what the meaning of life is, and you
Speaker 3: said be happy and basically be of service and be useful, right,
Speaker 3: And I almost wonder that it seems like the call
Speaker 3: them guides or angels or whatever is on the other
Speaker 3: side of the veil. It seems like they're here to
Speaker 3: do exactly that for us as well.
Speaker 1: I would say, so at least the ones that I
Speaker 1: meet are, you know, I don't deny that in hyperspace
Speaker 1: there are definitely some tricks or demons or entities I'm
Speaker 1: still trying to figure out because I don't meet them
Speaker 1: often because I always do like protective spells and stuff.
Speaker 1: But I'm going to be doing like a specifically demonic
Speaker 1: like mushroom ritual, like to invoke the devil, because I'd never, like,
Speaker 1: I feel like, in order to understand the worst parts
Speaker 1: of the self that would come up in like the
Speaker 1: satan of your own soul.
Speaker 4: You know, the energy of whatever that is.
Speaker 1: You know, whatever that may be. So yeah, anyway, I
Speaker 1: forgot where I was going with that.
Speaker 3: But yeah, calling on the adversary's just calling on the
Speaker 3: adversary over there.
Speaker 1: Sometimes, you know what, there's a lot of wisdom in job.
Speaker 3: No, I mean, I'll tell you what you know. We've
Speaker 3: we've we try to get real philosophical and wondrous about
Speaker 3: this kind of stuff. And I just from my experience
Speaker 3: with other people's stories. You're talking about demons and the devil,
Speaker 3: and you know, you're reading the Bible and you hear
Speaker 3: those stories and everything, it seems like, yeah, the devil
Speaker 3: and demons might be scary and they're out there just
Speaker 3: fuck you up or whatever, but it seems like that
Speaker 3: has to exist in order to push you in the
Speaker 3: correct direction, you know what I'm saying. Like, without without
Speaker 3: all of that, you wouldn't know necessarily what the bad
Speaker 3: side and the downside and the and and all of
Speaker 3: the horrible things about you represent.
Speaker 1: Yeah you, I couldn't agree more. Man. You have to
Speaker 1: be in touch with those parts of you that are
Speaker 1: capable of actually like causing destruction in the world, because
Speaker 1: it's as as humans we have to learn how to
Speaker 1: deal with that and control that. And as the saying goes,
Speaker 1: mightier as the person that can control their anger than
Speaker 1: one that can destroy a city with it. And I
Speaker 1: think that these days a little too much, people I
Speaker 1: don't know are letting their anger get a little bit
Speaker 1: the best of them. And I'm not perfect. I've certainly
Speaker 1: fallen into that category, but I'm at least recognizing it
Speaker 1: and trying, you know. And sometimes you bring it up
Speaker 1: with people and they just think you're nuts, And it's like, what,
Speaker 1: because I'm trying to be a better person, Why does
Speaker 1: that make me nuts? You know?
Speaker 4: It's demonic, dude, It's demonic, you know. At the end
Speaker 4: of the day, it's all part of the same soup,
Speaker 4: you know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, dude, Well, but it's about being in touch with
Speaker 1: the ego. I guess that's what I was trying to
Speaker 1: get to. It is just that like that demonic side again,
Speaker 1: it's like, just like the goddesses and all that, it's
Speaker 1: coming down you coming up the demons and the devils.
Speaker 1: It's the same thing. So there's a part of you
Speaker 1: that's playing a role in it. And until you actually
Speaker 1: do this and you meet them, you know, well, at
Speaker 1: least I'm going to find out. I was about to say,
Speaker 1: you know, it'll be difficult to understand it, but you
Speaker 1: know what, it might be a total bust. You know,
Speaker 1: I might do the spell wrong. I've done spells and
Speaker 1: they've gone wrong. That's how you know, to your point,
Speaker 1: that's how I know when they go right, because they
Speaker 1: go wrong.
Speaker 4: Absolutely. Yeah, let us know. Maybe we'll have you back
Speaker 4: on at some point. We would love to have you
Speaker 4: back on. Of course, this was an amazing conversation, and
Speaker 4: let us know what happens with that, because I'm kind
Speaker 4: of I'm kind of curious.
Speaker 3: Yeah, sure, I.
Speaker 1: I'll probably be posting it on Instagram when I do it,
Speaker 1: I'll be waiting for It'll be a few months. I'm
Speaker 1: still integrating from a different Iahwasca experience from not too
Speaker 1: long ago, so I like to have the integration period
Speaker 1: and then you'll you'll definitely hear about it for sure.
Speaker 3: Awesome man, Well, thank you so much for coming to
Speaker 3: hang out with us. This was an absolute pleasure. You
Speaker 3: have a wealth of knowledge and experience that only we're
Speaker 3: here to just be the sponge. That's that's it. So
Speaker 3: we appreciate you sharing your knowledge and your experiences with us.
Speaker 3: And like Sehn said, yeah, we would love to have
Speaker 3: you on again and want to someday. Sure if you,
Speaker 3: if you could, could you lead to our we call
Speaker 3: our listeners, the initiates. Could you let the initiates know
Speaker 3: where they can find you and all your good works there?
Speaker 1: Sure, hello, Initiates. You can find me on Instagram at
Speaker 1: Tom dot hatsis. I have a substack as well, which
Speaker 1: if you just search Tom Hatsus or Thomas Hatsus on substack,
Speaker 1: and I have a YouTube page. I'm your channel, I
Speaker 1: guess you say. And I just started doing that, so
Speaker 1: it's there's not too much there. But I have a
Speaker 1: few like podcast things up where it's just me rambling
Speaker 1: about shit, and it's gonna be it's way more culture focused,
Speaker 1: but it's gonna be getting more psychedelic and culture and
Speaker 1: magic and culture focused. And that again, if you just
Speaker 1: go to YouTube and put Tom hatsus. I don't have
Speaker 1: a name for the thing yet for my show yet,
Speaker 1: So if you think of some thing, let me know.
Speaker 4: Absolutely, dude. I could listen to you talk all day, dude.
Speaker 4: So if you start a podcast or whatever, I would
Speaker 4: listen to it. Hell, yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1: So I got a few.
Speaker 3: Yeah, all right, man, all right, Well look, if if
Speaker 3: Thomas hat Says came here and he taught you anything,
Speaker 3: it's that.
Speaker 4: You don't know what you don't know.
Speaker 3: So I don't just get weird stay weird. Oh man,
Speaker 3: that was a that's a nice one. You know, you
Speaker 3: don't You never really to look at each body part
Speaker 3: as if it is almost like its own little energy
Speaker 3: or its own little entity, and to think it and
Speaker 3: show it gratitude. And it might sound kind of silly
Speaker 3: to people who have never done that before. I've never
Speaker 3: done that before, but you can feel why it's important
Speaker 3: to show gratitude toward it though, like it's you like
Speaker 3: actually physically feel it.
Speaker 4: Yeah. The only time I think you think about it
Speaker 4: is like if you're injured, right, like all of a sudden,
Speaker 4: your back's fucked up and you can't lift things the
Speaker 4: way you normally. You can't stand up the way you
Speaker 4: normally could, or just certain things like that is when
Speaker 4: you're like, ah, I just want this to get better,
Speaker 4: Like it's really important for this body part to get
Speaker 4: better because it's really causing a tough strain on my
Speaker 4: life right now. And then when you get better, then
Speaker 4: you you know, time goes by and you kind of
Speaker 4: forget and you take it for granted. Again. It goes
Speaker 4: with everything, man, we take everything. We get to a
Speaker 4: point where we take things for granted. So and I
Speaker 4: know that you know, saying be grateful, you know, the
Speaker 4: gratefulness and all of this. It sounds cheesy or whatever,
Speaker 4: but I you know, I think it's super important. Dude.
Speaker 4: You know, we've talked about this before. It's like when
Speaker 4: you're when you're grateful and you kind of just live
Speaker 4: that way, everything is just extra, you know. And No,
Speaker 4: that was a pretty interesting one, man. I was imagining,
Speaker 4: like any any times in your life, like growing up
Speaker 4: or or whatever, you if you have a bad experience
Speaker 4: or or you know, maybe you felt like you did
Speaker 4: somebody wrong or whatever, it is that you know the
Speaker 4: things that you would need to forgive yourself for. It's
Speaker 4: almost like wherever you were in that point in time,
Speaker 4: it kind of just got trapped there, you know, almost
Speaker 4: like an echo of space time, and it's just stuck there.
Speaker 4: But it's a version of you, but but not all
Speaker 4: of you, you know, So I feel like and just
Speaker 4: just to play around with it, you know, I was
Speaker 4: just visualizing that and kind of like allowing those parts
Speaker 4: of myself to be to be free, you know, and
Speaker 4: not be trapped in that in that moment or in
Speaker 4: you know, in that time of anger or feeling upset
Speaker 4: or feeling let down or you know, any any moment
Speaker 4: like that, just kind of released that because maybe you know,
Speaker 4: maybe consciously you don't think it's there, but you go
Speaker 4: into that meditation and you kind of just start to
Speaker 4: let those thoughts come in and try to really because
Speaker 4: I mean, the best thing you can do is put
Speaker 4: your awareness on the things that maybe you purposely put
Speaker 4: away or maybe you you know, and so in your
Speaker 4: reality now it doesn't even exist, but it's still there,
Speaker 4: and I'm sure it's still like a wall. That's that's
Speaker 4: kind of trapping that fullness of you to be, you know,
Speaker 4: all the way.
Speaker 3: You Yeah, yeah, It's what's interesting is is that people
Speaker 3: who believe that only the physical world exists, whether they're
Speaker 3: atheist or religious or whatever you are. I mean, there
Speaker 3: are there are people who consider themselves spiritual that think that, well,
Speaker 3: we only experience the physical and all that other stuff
Speaker 3: is happening, that's the spiritual stuff. But this is the
Speaker 3: physical realm, so only physical things happen here. And it's
Speaker 3: easy to think that, Like that's the easiest thing to
Speaker 3: believe because it's the most obvious, right, Like I can
Speaker 3: touch this desk, I know it's here, Therefore it is real.
Speaker 3: But like man, whenever you're going through all the individual
Speaker 3: body parts and you know, bring focus there. I don't
Speaker 3: even know how to explain it, but I feel energy
Speaker 3: going there, you know what I like?
Speaker 4: I get. No, it's something that's probably always happening. That feeling,
Speaker 4: that tingling, that whatever it is that you feel when
Speaker 4: you put your awareness there is always happening. And that's
Speaker 4: very comparable to a lot of the mystical things and
Speaker 4: spiritual things that we would notice on psychedelics or whatever,
Speaker 4: because it's always happening, but we just so happen to
Speaker 4: be putting our attention on it in that moment in time.
Speaker 3: And if you can bring that awareness there and feel
Speaker 3: the energy that is going there, and then add on
Speaker 3: top of that the feeling of gratitude that is being
Speaker 3: funneled into that energy that you that you're focusing to
Speaker 3: that point, you could see how one might heal themselves.
Speaker 4: That's exactly what I was hoping. That's where you were
Speaker 4: going to go. Yeah, absolutely, yeah for sure, like all
Speaker 4: the cells in that part of your body are just
Speaker 4: like happy, you know, like, oh, you know what I mean,
Speaker 4: there's a tension on us, like everything. What is that
Speaker 4: experiment where the double slid experiment, you know, where awareness
Speaker 4: or the observer has some sort of impact and so
Speaker 4: you the observer is observing that part and maybe this
Speaker 4: is like out there, you know, and maybe it's not
Speaker 4: real at all. I don't know, but it sounds cool
Speaker 4: to me. Like if you put your awareness on a
Speaker 4: part of your body that needs healing and just like
Speaker 4: full intention, just put all of that healing energy into
Speaker 4: that part of your body. I feel like there was
Speaker 4: one time where that happened here on this podcast. I
Speaker 4: was having a really tough time with my one of
Speaker 4: my toe, it was my big toe. It was just
Speaker 4: hurting really bad, and I remember we were doing something
Speaker 4: like that, and there was this weird hum and I
Speaker 4: felt like, all of a sudden there was like a
Speaker 4: almost like a bubbling type of sensation in my toe.
Speaker 4: And the next day it was feeling better, like dramatically better,
Speaker 4: not just a little bit. And so I don't know,
Speaker 4: maybe that was a coincidence, but I don't think there.
Speaker 3: Is such a thing, dude. I think you are literally
Speaker 3: guiding energy, and depending upon what energy you are putting
Speaker 3: into that soup of energy, that's maybe how it interacts
Speaker 3: with it. So if you are saying, oh, my fucking knees,
Speaker 3: they're just given now they curse fucking hate them, what
Speaker 3: I just wish. I just want to rip these things off,
Speaker 3: you know what I mean? Like, and you're just constantly
Speaker 3: not only saying it, but you're you're feeling it, and
Speaker 3: you're allowing that energy to encompass you and maybe you're
Speaker 3: even imagining it, And yeah, I would imagine they probably
Speaker 3: don't get any better than that. But conversely, you say
Speaker 3: about how much gratitude you had toward towards it, and
Speaker 3: it sends a little energy in the same way. And
Speaker 3: it's not even just about your body, dude, Like I
Speaker 3: think that when people pray. I'm not going to go
Speaker 3: into the specifics of it, but like I think that
Speaker 3: whenever people pray. Let's say, my daughter is going to
Speaker 3: take a test I don't know tomorrow, right, and I'm like, God,
Speaker 3: please give her the patience and the trust in herself
Speaker 3: and let her know that she is capable of getting
Speaker 3: an A on this. Do I literally believe that God
Speaker 3: is going to do that. I don't know, maybe, but
Speaker 3: I think that the energy that I just put out
Speaker 3: is being received somewhere.
Speaker 4: Yeah, even if it's just the the energy that you're
Speaker 4: putting into a potential reality, let's just say that, dude,
Speaker 4: I feel like that alone is a lot bigger than
Speaker 4: you would believe. Dude. You know, like if you really
Speaker 4: believe in something that you want to accomplish, like you
Speaker 4: believe like there's no matter, no matter what happens, I'm
Speaker 4: going to accomplish this because this is like my ultimate goal,
Speaker 4: this is what I have to do this. I know
Speaker 4: deep down in my heart that this is what I
Speaker 4: want to accomplish, and I'm going to do everything possible.
Speaker 4: And then you're also like visualizing it and because of
Speaker 4: course you would be how could you How could you
Speaker 4: not visualize what that would look like. It's all just this,
Speaker 4: it's all one, one thing, you know, And so you're
Speaker 4: putting your awareness on a potential reality that you would
Speaker 4: want to see. Then I just feel like it has
Speaker 4: to happen, you know, I mean within reason, you know,
Speaker 4: obviously maybe maybe within reason, maybe not. I mean it
Speaker 4: was definitely not within reason. Whenever that fucking wizard went
Speaker 4: out in the desert and pulled the moon closer. You know,
Speaker 4: that's without That's that's illogical, that goes against all logic.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so I think that the only thing that is
Speaker 3: unreasonable is the boundaries in your own mind. Really, yeah,
Speaker 3: because there's a way I fucking what was his name,
Speaker 3: Joe Despendza healed his back through meditation, bro, like put
Speaker 3: the piece is back to where they needed to go.
Speaker 3: Oh for sure, focus and energy and contemplation.
Speaker 4: My uh wow, whatever. My nose and everything was all
Speaker 4: because I was sick for like month. I feel like
Speaker 4: it was sick for like a month and a half.
Speaker 4: I couldn't breathe out of my nose. We did that
Speaker 4: mind control shit, and I was like really trying to
Speaker 4: work on that, and like I've even thought about it
Speaker 4: after the fact and trying to heal that and like
Speaker 4: touching my fingers together and really just trying to I
Speaker 4: want this to be better, because it was starting to
Speaker 4: kind of concern me, you know something like that. Dude,
Speaker 4: I can it's like a lot better right now, like tonight.
Speaker 4: I mean, for the last two days, it's been a
Speaker 4: little bit better, and I feel like I can talk
Speaker 4: a little bit more normally, you know, And so like
Speaker 4: a coincidence, I don't know.
Speaker 3: I think it probably presents itself as a coincidence.
Speaker 4: Right yeah, for some reason that it's like hard to
Speaker 4: believe some of these things, so you just just to
Speaker 4: play it safe, as if you had to play it
Speaker 4: safe by just saying, oh, it's a coincidence instead of
Speaker 4: just being like, oh, I think I might have helped
Speaker 4: that along just a little bit.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 3: Yeah, definitely push it and that right way. You know,
Speaker 3: what I think helps probably more than anything else, at
Speaker 3: least from what I was kind of experimenting around, and
Speaker 3: that meditation was, is that, yeah, whenever I'm gonna say
Speaker 3: a little story and then it'll connect. Whenever I was younger,
Speaker 3: I mean, I have a brother and a sister. We're
Speaker 3: all relatively close to the same age. My sister is
Speaker 3: a year and a half younger than me, My brother
Speaker 3: is four years younger than me. I'm the oldest. And
Speaker 3: whenever we were growing up, man, we would all get
Speaker 3: into arguments, we would get into fights. Me and my
Speaker 3: brother literally wrestled and fought every day like it was.
Speaker 3: But we never took it too far, you know what
Speaker 3: I'm saying, Like I never broke a bone or you know,
Speaker 3: punched him in the face or anything like that. Like
Speaker 3: it was brotherly love. Like even when we were pissed
Speaker 3: at each each other and like ready to rip each
Speaker 3: other's heads off, there was we were never going to
Speaker 3: go as far as you know, maybe other people would
Speaker 3: have gone. And I think that that's that was just
Speaker 3: kind of in our mind that you don't do that
Speaker 3: to family, you know, like and and what is family
Speaker 3: other than familiar, you know what I'm saying, Like, I
Speaker 3: think that's actually probably where it comes from, is it's
Speaker 3: your familiar. And so whenever I was going in and
Speaker 3: putting my focus on my feet and my ankles and
Speaker 3: my knees and my hips and everything in my chest
Speaker 3: and everything, yeah, I went about it as if I
Speaker 3: was familiar with that with doing that, you know, and
Speaker 3: I think that people put a little bit of separation
Speaker 3: in between them and things that are seemingly unknown. But
Speaker 3: if it's all one giant thing and there is no separation,
Speaker 3: then at an at some level, probably at all levels,
Speaker 3: but at some level to our ability to comprehend, it's relatable.
Speaker 3: It's you know, it's familiar. And I think that if
Speaker 3: you go in with that faith that it is familiar
Speaker 3: and instead of putting a little distance in between, look
Speaker 3: at it like it's familiar. I think that's where the
Speaker 3: fucking healing is at, Dude, Like, it is that level
Speaker 3: of familiar that like, who knows what we were before
Speaker 3: we incarnated. Maybe we were existing as other people or
Speaker 3: aliens or planets or stars or whatever, but surely there
Speaker 3: was an in between period where we were just energy,
Speaker 3: and I think as energy we were able to go
Speaker 3: around and probably experience a lot of different things, and
Speaker 3: some of those things are I mean, I don't know.
Speaker 3: I like to boil it all down to a singularity point,
Speaker 3: and if everything is one singularity point, then there is
Speaker 3: nothing that is unfamiliar.
Speaker 4: Right, Yeah, Well, it's no coincidence that when somebody tries
Speaker 4: psychedelics and they blast off into outer space, you know, Like,
Speaker 4: why is that? That seems to be one of those
Speaker 4: common things that people would experience, and it's I don't know,
Speaker 4: I feel like there's there's no coincidence there. It's like
Speaker 4: the you are the universe, yes, you know, and it's
Speaker 4: almost like when you get outside of what you think
Speaker 4: is you right, you're you just you're so just comfortable
Speaker 4: with being this body, and then you get you get
Speaker 4: out of your own way and you take down those
Speaker 4: walls and the ego and everything else, and you're just
Speaker 4: the universe. And so I think that's where we come from.
Speaker 4: We just come from the we we are. We were
Speaker 4: just the universe, and now we're we're this right now
Speaker 4: for this short amount of time, yeah, until we're not yeah,
Speaker 4: and then we're back to that again. But you may
Speaker 4: as well be familiar with it, because I think just
Speaker 4: going back to that, like I think that anytime.
Speaker 3: I think there's a lot of division in the world. Obviously,
Speaker 3: like it's not hard to find the division in the world,
Speaker 3: whatever it is, political, religious, difference of opinion on anything, right,
Speaker 3: But I think that if we were able to find
Speaker 3: anything that we could be familiar with even to a stranger. Oh,
Speaker 3: you got up in the morning and I don't know,
Speaker 3: took a piss. Hey I did that this morning, you know,
Speaker 3: like something.
Speaker 4: So also like flying in your dreams, I know it?
Speaker 4: Who doesn't know it? Who doesn't?
Speaker 2: You know?
Speaker 3: It's that level of familiarity that ultimately brings you closer.
Speaker 3: And isn't that the point of all of it, Like
Speaker 3: the point of everything is just to get closer and
Speaker 3: more intertwined and not divided. And I think that that's
Speaker 3: happening probably on a microcosmic skill as well as a
Speaker 3: macrocosmic skill.
Speaker 4: Absolutely. I think we just we just give in, We
Speaker 4: give into certain things, We choose sides. We you know,
Speaker 4: we create our own divisions. I feel like we allow
Speaker 4: the divisions. And it's like most people are just wanting
Speaker 4: a you know, a decent life. They want to love
Speaker 4: their family, They want their kids to go to school
Speaker 4: and come home safe. They you know, they want to
Speaker 4: make sure that everyone's got something to eat in the house.
Speaker 4: And you know what I'm saying, most people would would
Speaker 4: see someone on the side of the road and go, oh, fuck,
Speaker 4: that sucks. I've been there before. I wish I can
Speaker 4: get over, but there's traffic and I can't go and help. Like,
Speaker 4: I feel like most people are kind of on the
Speaker 4: same wavelength, on that same level, but then there's just
Speaker 4: all these different things that they their attachments and and
Speaker 4: things that they've kind of acquired depending on where they
Speaker 4: spawn and you know, into this world, and you know,
Speaker 4: they they're they're they're so they're bought into it so hard, dude,
Speaker 4: that it's like, if I'm not that, then what am I?
Speaker 4: You know, if I'm not the team that I like,
Speaker 4: or if I'm not the cell phone that I prefer
Speaker 4: over Apple or Android, or you know, oh I don't
Speaker 4: like that band because they're probably demonic, or there's just
Speaker 4: so many different things that people like to just nitpick,
Speaker 4: and if you don't like what I like, then you know,
Speaker 4: we can't hang out. And it's like, I don't know,
Speaker 4: maybe I'm getting too far into the weeds here, but
Speaker 4: it's just I know what you're saying, dude. That's the thing.
Speaker 4: That's the one thing I feel like needs to be
Speaker 4: figured out. But it's just it seems impossible, like I
Speaker 4: can't figure out a single thing that I can say
Speaker 4: or do to get people to just be like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 4: we're all just here on this planet at the same time,
Speaker 4: like you know, like.
Speaker 3: By God's grace.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, yeah, Yeah. I don't know, dude, I don't know.
Speaker 4: Maybe some day people will will figure it out.
Speaker 3: It's it's kind of like uh Nadel Perrman said the
Speaker 3: most evil thing that you can tell yourself. The one
Speaker 3: word you remember when he said.
Speaker 4: This, yes, is they mm hmm yeah, the enemy with
Speaker 4: no face you know, yep, that is perpetuated by your
Speaker 4: own thoughts.
Speaker 3: There is no vainess in oneness, right right, It can't
Speaker 3: happen like that anyhow. All right, Yeah, I do have
Speaker 3: one more thing I wanted to say. I don't know
Speaker 3: how many people listen beyond here, so I probably should
Speaker 3: have said it at first, but I'll just run it
Speaker 3: by you in case nobody's listening whatever. All right, Yeah,
Speaker 3: I think what I'm gonna do is, I don't know.
Speaker 3: I'm not sure which day I want to do it,
Speaker 3: but I want to pick one day a week where
Speaker 3: it'll just be me behind the mic and I'm reading
Speaker 3: a book and it'll be a meta book club, and
Speaker 3: I'm sure you're going to listen to it. Because we
Speaker 3: love the same books and everything like that. But I
Speaker 3: want it to be a book club, like, all right,
Speaker 3: we're going to read five chapters today, or maybe we'll
Speaker 3: read half the book, or if it's small enough, maybe
Speaker 3: we'll read the full book in one sitting. But I
Speaker 3: have so many damn books that I know we're never
Speaker 3: going to be able to get to, and I want
Speaker 3: to be able to share with everybody else because most
Speaker 3: of the books that I have are suggestions from listeners
Speaker 3: or from guests that we've had, or just from even
Speaker 3: research that I've done that I thought was particularly interesting.
Speaker 3: And there's so many amazing books that I have that
Speaker 3: I just I don't have the time to get to,
Speaker 3: and so this will give me a reason to get
Speaker 3: to them, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 4: Dude, No, that's a great idea. You should definitely do that,
Speaker 4: for sure.
Speaker 3: I think that would be a lot of fun.
Speaker 4: It's funny though, that you were thinking that as far
Speaker 4: as like, I don't know how many people listen this
Speaker 4: far because I had that thought, like I wonder how
Speaker 4: many people are actually doing the meditation or if like
Speaker 4: whenever we're like, oh, time for the meditation, they're like
Speaker 4: all right, well, I guess that's it, you know, and
Speaker 4: they just kind of tune out. But even if one
Speaker 4: person is out, they're meditating. I mean, either way, we're
Speaker 4: still gonna do it. You know. I love the meditations, dude.
Speaker 4: I get so much more out of them that I
Speaker 4: even anticipate, you know, like really.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Well, you know, here's what we'll do for anybody
Speaker 3: that is listening, because this episode's going everywhere, but for
Speaker 3: anybody that is listening on the Cult of Conspiracy podcast,
Speaker 3: on the Metamistics podcast, on Spotify, on Apple, on YouTube,
Speaker 3: on Patreon, wherever you're listening to this, if you just
Speaker 3: drop a comment, that will, like it'll be an inside thing.
Speaker 3: And if you've listened this far, just put a I
Speaker 3: don't know, put a uh, put a question mark. It'll
Speaker 3: be an inside joke, yep. And we'll see how many
Speaker 3: question marks and then we'll know, like you don't even
Speaker 3: have to say I was here till the end, just
Speaker 3: just a question mark, and and we'll know that's it.
Speaker 4: Yep. There's gonna be that one person that just is
Speaker 4: just organically putting a question mark because they don't know
Speaker 4: what the hell we're talking about. And then everyone else
Speaker 4: puts question marks and it's gonna really throw them off.
Speaker 4: So that would be great.
Speaker 3: Yeah, whatever, yeah, whatever happens in and if and if
Speaker 3: people are questioning your question mark, just be like, you
Speaker 3: don't get it, you don't know, you wouldn't know, right,
Speaker 3: So even if you're the first one that puts a
Speaker 3: question mark, we want to see it. I'd like there
Speaker 3: needs to be no context other than the question mark.
Speaker 4: That's it'd be great. Perfect.
Speaker 3: But yeah, I'm gonna I think I'm gonna start that
Speaker 3: that uh that book club. Now what's today? Says Friday?
Speaker 3: It'll probably it'll start next week.
Speaker 4: Oh it's Friday. Oh it's Thursday for me, technically Friday.
Speaker 4: Now different days, all right for me? Anyway.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so yeah, I think i'll start it next week.
Speaker 3: I haven't picked a day yet, but I don't know.
Speaker 3: We'll be weird. Sounds good anyhow, all right, the one
Speaker 3: Hopefully you enjoyed this conversation, Hopefully you listened this far,
Speaker 3: and if you did, question mark.
Speaker 4: Question mark, I'm Ron Burgundy.
Speaker 3: Right yeah, and so yeah, we'll just leave it there.
Speaker 3: We love you and we'll see you on the flip side.
Speaker 2: I guess imagine what would it happened if we had
Speaker 2: in the tract and the magic we had back when
Speaker 2: we couldn't fathom life is the fantasy, not.
Speaker 3: With the fan, indeed not the way it was back then.
Speaker 2: So I grabbed my pan and write it down like
Speaker 2: a scripture, missed and mist making hits for the misfits,
Speaker 2: the show with you don't Know what you don't know
Speaker 2: when it's on again with Shawn and Jonathan