Speaker 1: What is up, fellow ciccos. I am a Dan Favalley
coming at you to wish you before our bonus episode,
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And finally, let's get to this episode. So, yes, it's Thanksgiving.
You'll have some time before we release our Friday or
excuse me, our Saturday mega episode to consume it. But
just in case you want to break from the family
or maybe you're doing some errands before people show up,
we have a bonus mini episode in which I ask
grant and I also forget because we compiled this a
little while ago, which NBA player will have the has
the better ball handler rating in two K twenty five.
It leads to some fascinating discourse and what we think
is some egregious picks. So we had fun with it.
We hope you enjoy it. Let me know if you
enjoy it in the comment session. Let us know what's
the biggest discrepancy in the ratings in the comments as well.
If you could pick a single duo that we're about
to go through here and say, no, it shouldn't be
like that, which one would it be? Well, Let's appreciate
Grant for always rolling with these punches, because I wouldn't
say he was embarrassed. I think he did a solid
job if I'm remembering properly. But he's always up this,
so we appreciate him as well. Shout out, Grant Hughes.
That's all for me, though. Let's get to this this
bonus episode. We're gonna ask Grant, which of the two
NBA players has the better ball handler rating in NBA
two K based off past experiences. When we've done overall ratings,
how are you feeling about this exercise?
Speaker 2: Heading in, I feel like, you know, whatever complaints I
have really more about the test administrator than the test itself,
because you always pick guys that are so close to
each other. It's that it's it's hard to you know
which is you know, you're it's good content, you're making
it difficult. I just struggle when it's like this guy's
in eighty four and this guy's in eighty three, and
I flip a coin basically, so you know, I'm ready,
but I'm prepared to be wrong a fair amount.
Speaker 1: I'm excited. Let's get into it, Grant, who has the
better NBA two K twenty five ball handling ratings Steph
Curry or John Morant.
Speaker 2: Starting with a tough one. I'm gonna go jaw just
because he still does stuff as a ball handler. I've
never seen anyone else do. I hope, I hope two
K recognizes.
Speaker 1: That here's the thing they do not you did it
right away?
Speaker 2: Just the ones.
Speaker 1: Great, there's the buzzers, a double cash that that wone
happened again. That's rough stuff for you, Grant, tough start.
I mean it's close enough. Do you have any issues
with it? Though?
Speaker 2: No, not really, I think, I mean, I think it's wrong,
but I'm not gonna sit here and speak ill of
Steph Curry in any way.
Speaker 1: So our next combination, Grant and should see you feel
about this one. We have Luka Doncic versus Trey Young.
Speaker 2: All right, so on handle alone. I think it's probably Trey,
and if I'm wrong, then I'm gonna have to start
reevaluating what ball handling encompasses.
Speaker 1: The answer is ninety five. That was a close one, though.
Are you surprised that Luca was? I know he has
like manipulation over the game, but when you think like
super duper ball handling is that necessarily some one that's
bringing the mind?
Speaker 2: Yeah, not really, because I think I think more just
along the lines of, like, I don't know how many
how much cool stuff can he do dribbling, Whereas for Luca,
it's just like, well, he gets his body to this body,
wants it to be in and like it's not. It's
not like he's doing a bunch of crazy tricks or
has it on a string like some guys. So I
feel good about that, but that was still too close
for comfort.
Speaker 1: Next up, who's a better ball Handlered NBA two K
twenty five Grant, Jalen Brunton or Shay Gilges Alexander all Right,
so this.
Speaker 2: Isn't about how good you are pivoting in the mid post.
I acknowledge Jalen Brunson has a great handle. I think
Shay just like the off time stuff, the the just
total unpredictability of his of his dribble package, like it's
got to be him.
Speaker 1: The answer is John, that's me.
Speaker 2: That's a that's a credit to Jalen Brunson. Now I'm
back to not knowing what ball handling includes.
Speaker 1: I do feel like it probably should have been Shay,
but neither here nor there, Devin Booker or Damian Lillard.
Speaker 2: That's fascinating. I don't think of either of these guys
as like either short list of elite ball handlers very good. Obviously,
I'm gonna go Dame just because we have seen so
far the two kse seems to be favoring the smaller guys.
The point guards are getting a little bit of an advantage.
Speaker 1: Are you onto something here? Grant you are? You got
it right, Dame ninety five to ninety three. Nicely done,
mister Hughes. That was a tough one, but I think
Dame is the right answer there.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Next up is Tyree's Halliburton versus James Harden, So I'm.
Speaker 2: Gonna go Harden even like because when I think of Haliburton,
I think of his well back when Terry's Haliburton used
to be good. I thought of his offensive, Like his
ball handling has more just like his vision and like
he could just vary the cadence of how he's moving
around the floor. Harden is just like, you know, we're
not that far removed and he can still do a
little bit of it to where he's just able to
get to whatever spot he wants. With the dribble that
feels a little different than Haliburton, So I'll go.
Speaker 1: Hard before we reveal. I just want to point out
that you said back when Tyree's Haliburton used to be good.
Speaker 2: You've watched him this year, right, not the same.
Speaker 1: I haven't seen a single second of NBA action this.
Speaker 2: Sorry, I forgot the figure word for it.
Speaker 1: The answer actually is James hard. It was it, not
that it wasn't closed. But oh, we got to give
you your correcting. Sorry, I'm only getting you on the
wrong not the right tough. This is rough stuff for
Tyre's Halibert, like James Harn' is eighty years old, so
it's kind of rough. Next up Grant, Kevin Durant or
Donovan Mitchell.
Speaker 2: All Right, this is I'll be wrong now, Beauince. I'm
about to say this, but this is the most confident
I've been. Katie's handle is actually not great. Like it's
a high dribble. He turns it over a fair amount.
It's impressive for his size, obviously, But Donovan Mitchell, I
think is just I think he's got a little more,
a little more zip in the ball handling bag. So
I'm gonna go with Mitchell Judges.
Speaker 1: Was it Grant correct? He was wrong? N ninety I've
shocked me when I was putting this together, and I
put it together a while ago, so even I'm kind
of a little surprised by these beekus. I've already forgotten
the answers, but this is the most egregious one we've
had by far.
Speaker 2: That's pretty suspect, right, I mean, like I guess, I
guess Durant being able to get to that pull up
that is a ball handling move. But it's also he's
seven feet tall, so I don't know.
Speaker 1: I know this is relative to size, like ye for
someone who is seven foot one claiming to be six
foot six or whatever like is that This.
Speaker 2: Also kind of goes against the trend I thought i'd
hit on with the smaller guy is gonna have the
better ball handling. So now we're back. We're back just
a drift. I don't know where to go.
Speaker 1: Let's seef you can get on track here. We have
Rob Dillingham, a rookie or Jason Tatum.
Speaker 2: Now this I don't know, Yeah right, yeah, I was
gonna say it. I always say it a lot. This
feels like bait that's great. I'm gonna stay Jason Tatum
and then we can just rip this apart.
Speaker 1: If it's Rob Dillingham, is it Rob Dillingham? The answer
is Rob dilling.
Speaker 2: Based on what close? What's what are they judging this
on it? You can't use Kentucky. I guess you got
to give the rookie something. But man, all right, cool
smaller players. Back to the smaller player. The trend re emerges.
Speaker 1: Next grouping John's Atta Kumbo or Anthony Edwards. I can
see it in your eyes, troubling you.
Speaker 2: You're right, really well, it feels too easy. Oh you
just yes, that's what I'm choosing you, honest, fair in fairness,
you just put the numbers up. I would have picked Ant.
I just can't understand how giannice is if you just
having a good handle or a better handle than.
Speaker 1: Ant eighty seven to eighty Yeah, that's man.
Speaker 2: Now I'm starting to think there's like a ball security
aspect to it, where it's like it's not just about
can you get where you need to get? Like how
cool does your handle look? Because Edward's just I don't know,
has more, but I guess maybe Edward's is a little
looser with it. Maybe that's part of it.
Speaker 1: I just Giannest is just for the most part, he
has some counters now, so I don't mean to disrespect Giannest,
but this just feels like the wrong answer.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's that's wild.
Speaker 1: Next two up, Grant Lebron James or D'Angelo Russell.
Speaker 2: All right, well, this feels like a mistake again. I'm
gonna go with the smaller player, the guy who is
an actual point guard as opposed to like a very
large player who plays point guard. I don't think of
Lebron as having a spectacular handle, Dilo. I don't really either,
but I would. I would just give it to the
to the to the true guard. So I'm gonna go Delo.
Speaker 1: You're one of those Bill Russell's better than them. Ron,
there is D'Angelo Russell. Nice job, mister Hughes.
Speaker 2: Thanks back on the board.
Speaker 1: Our next two up, I'm curious to see if you're
gonna get this combination. We have DeMar Derozen versus Jalen Brown.
Speaker 2: Okay, well, uh as Jalen Brown split into left and
right hand is my first question. That's a little bit outdated,
right because he can do a little more going left
there was a minute there where it was a turnover
if he wants. This has been two years ago, necessarily,
but it's still it's still not quite the same. I
think I have to go to Rosen by default, just because,
like for most of his career, the knock on Jalen
Brown was his handle was real shaky, especially going left.
Speaker 1: Survey says ye went Brown eighty six to eighty three.
I don't buy. I do not buy this one. This
is another egregious one to me.
Speaker 2: Okay, new theory, you know how like if you're trying
to create a player and like get their overall rating higher,
so you just like bump up this category and this
one a little bit, and this one here, I feel
like two K realized it had to have Jaylen Brown
with a much higher overall rating than DeRozan, and just
like I will toss him three points in Paul Handling,
who's gonna notice we are? Apparently?
Speaker 1: I yeah, I just feel like you're giving maybe the
developers way too much credit about the thought that they
put it that. I just how how is that the answer?
I don't know where are gonna land on this one though.
Steph Curry versus Kyrie Irving.
Speaker 2: So I am kind of on board with people that
say Kyrie's got the best handle of all time. So
I have to choose Kyrie, and I'm gonna be real
annoyed if even if it's Steph. If Steph has a
higher number, Wow.
Speaker 1: I hope he's listening to this because we know he's
a subscriber. Grant you were correct, nice job. Kyrie actually
has the highest rated handle in NBA two K twenty
five ninety seven.
Speaker 2: That is fair. I have no issue with him getting
a ninety nine there.
Speaker 1: I think that's probably right too, although I just I
feel like Steph's handles almost underrated in the sense that
everyone defaults to Kyrie. I think it's probably at least
a conversation. Sure, yeah, Nicole, Oh, get your Bam out
of bio. This is your shit.
Speaker 2: Yeah oh man, I mean this is really and challenging,
like what is ball handling? Because Yokic isn't like yo
yo and the ball and crossing over and doing sham
gods and all this other stuff. But like, man, he
gets where he wants to be every time. Obviously Bam
is a super skilled big aa. I'm just gonna go
Jokic and hope that again giving the developers credit their
their their definition of what constitutes ball handling is a
little broader.
Speaker 1: This is fun because even I don't remember the answer.
But I feel like, if it's not Nicole Jokic, it's blasphemoth.
Seventy six to sixty nine. Nice job, Bam, but not
even close to Yokic. That's low, yeah for both.
Speaker 2: Really, the sixty nine is low for BAM. I feel
like this should be like a well, I don't know
what I would give Jokic, Like give him one hundred
and four? Can we do that?
Speaker 1: Just well, it's relative to position, it's different, but overall,
seventy six even still feels low.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Joel Embiid or Domas Sabonis or Domontes Sabonus, excuse me,
some people get mad when we call him doma.
Speaker 2: That's what the broadcast calls him all the time. Uh,
I mean noted ball handlers here for sure. Uh let's see, dude,
if dribble handoffs count, this is gonna be a wash
because they're both really good or have been really good
at those. I'm just gonna go Embiid because Sibonis I
think like it's not a comfortable experience when he's pushing
it in transition, I don't I don't see a lot
of shake. Although he is good with the ball, I
just don't think of him as a as a dribbler.
Speaker 1: Embiand seems like he has more of a face up fluidity.
For sure, he's gonna play with his handle. And the
answer is no, mass Simonis. This is a lot of
fun because I put this together like a week ago,
and I already just forgot the answers. I would have
guessed EmpId two. I thought that was the right answer.
Speaker 2: I mean those are both real low all right, now
we're talking.
Speaker 1: I will say embiad's handle. If you think that he's
like a really good ball handler, then we need to
have a different kind.
Speaker 2: Of like Jalen Brown. It's like embiid was it wasn't
is like very turnover prone. That had a lot to
do with like passing out of double teams. But he'll
kick it away, you know, once or twice a game.
Speaker 1: Now, a little backstory here for anyone who's not a
regular listener to the episode, and if you're not, hey
what's up? Subscribe to a nice to be This is
basically Grant Sophie's choice Jalen Williams or Brandon Pajemski, who
is the better ball handling rating in two K?
Speaker 2: I mean, so Pajemski is the like the truer guard.
I guess both played point guard in college. That's although
that's a much bigger selling point for someone who's william
size than it is for POD's. I don't know. I
think Pajemski gets where he wants to go, the problem
with him is he can't score when he gets there.
I think I'm gonna go Jada, just because I think
Padjemski is just not viewed as like, oh, he's got
all this shake, whereas Williams, I feel like, is just
a more established scorer, shot creator gets to the basket,
that kind of thing. So I'm gonna I'm gonna assume
ball handling is gonna help him there.
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna get my inpe because I do remember
the answer to this. One survey says. The answer is
Liam is not even close. Eighty six to eighty.
Speaker 2: That's tough one for Pajemski.
Speaker 1: There our next to mister Hughes, Paolo Bancaro, or Franz Wagner.
Speaker 2: All Right, So I love Franz's leap this year. We
were both I won't wump you in, but I did
not think he had a jump like this. I was
concerned about the shooting. Franz is just like the slowdown,
the like wrong footed floaters, like that kind of stuff.
Some of that created by ball handling. Paolo though, is
just like it really is like guard like the way
he gets to spots and can just shake guys for
pull up. So I'm gonna go Polo, but I think
they both should be pretty high.
Speaker 1: The answer is Franz Bogner and it's not even close.
I probably would have picked Paolo too. I know Franz
has more of the wing handle, but there's like a
bletic yeah force to the way that Pallo bank Carroll
handers the ball.
Speaker 2: I feel too, like Paolo has the ball on a
string kind of feel a little more. And maybe that's
just him like getting into his bag for face up stuff. Yeah,
that's I think that's too big of a gap. I
would have liked to see both of them up in
the mid eighties, I do, right.
Speaker 1: And I think that like in a vacuum, it feels
like Pallo's rating is too low. Grant Anthony Davis or
Karl Anthony Towns who is the better ball handler rating
in NBA two K.
Speaker 2: I just think of Kat as like a total straight
line drive guy. If he's putting it on the floor,
maybe behind the back end there. I'm gonna go a
D just because he's more fluid like he was a
good you know, remember when a huge part of his
prospect profile a million years ago is that he was
a guar that grew like that's that's what he's one
of those guys. So I'll go a D. He's just
a little smoother, can a little better Laterally. Cat's just
like a head down go guy.
Speaker 1: Is Grant, He's correct survey he is seventy five to
sixty five. So everything you said, they're pretty spot on.
Nice nice deduction there, Sure.
Speaker 2: We got there.
Speaker 1: Oh boy, Chet Holmgren or Victor Wemenyama, who has the
better ball handler rating in NBA two K.
Speaker 2: I think they're gonna give this to Wemby because at
least last year Chet started out where like he would
just spin into trouble and felt like he was kind
of loose with it. Wemby's got the KD issue of
the hydriuble, and it's just like you can only be
so good. But as we're learning, Victor Wembenyama is a
shooting guard that happens to be seven foot five. So
I think that's gonna be reflected here. I'll go, Wemby
has the higher ball handling.
Speaker 1: You are correct seventy to sixty five. Do you think
that this is correct?
Speaker 2: It's so hard to judge these guys. I will say
chet has improved a lot. He's obviously hurt now, but
I think early this year and towards the end of
last year he got a lot better. I guess you
really can't give guys this tall, like crazy ball handling
ratings because the distance between their hand and the floor
is really is huge, and it's hard to be good
dribbling when there's that much space.
Speaker 1: I wonder if Wenby gets bowed his points for working
within worse spacing than Chetwood grant better ball handler in
an NBA two K Pascal Siakam or Zion Williamson.
Speaker 2: All right, so the spin move, it's not really a
dribble move, but that's Sacam's bread and butter. I they're
both dangerous in transition. Zion still is just kind of
quick burst go. I don't know if there's a bunch
of I'm gonna go siakam and I don't feel great
about it.
Speaker 1: I don't know the answer here. This is another one.
I forgot it better be Pascal Siaka always said, Hey,
that's a I forget about the actual ratings. That's close.
That's closer than I would have guessed. I would have
thought that he had him by a few notches. Our
next combo mister Hughes, Jalen Green or Jordan Poole.
Speaker 2: That's fun. I mean Jordan Poole, he's creative. We'll give
him that. He does some chat, he tries some weird stuff.
Jordan Poole is in the Marin category of although you
remember like the carry the crackdown on carrying like a couple,
was it last year or two years ago? For Jordan
Poole was just public enemy number one of officials because
he was he would just egregiously carry the ball, and
when they started calling that, it really hurt him. Jalen
Green is kind of similar, but he's more of just
he's kind of straight lining too all. He's improved. I'm
gonna go pool just because I've seen Pool do some
truly wild ball handling stuff.
Speaker 1: The answer has to be, like this is you got
a factor in the circus rate of everything, and it
has the answer has to be Jordan Poole here, and
it is Jordan Poole. Those were I don't want to
say they were generous ratings, but Jordan Poole is a ninety.
Does that feel about right?
Speaker 2: That's pretty high for Jalen Green is what was jumping out.
Speaker 1: I would agree, But Kale Bridges or Draymond Green, I
mean Draymond probably.
Speaker 2: I mean Draymond is like a more functional passing hub
than Bridges.
Speaker 1: No, I don't. I don't want to put the pressure
on you, but this is your last one, okay, get
it wrong. That's what everybody is gonna run, right, man.
Speaker 2: I do not think of Bridges as a ball handler.
He is like a truer wing though, and he had
that Brooklyn stretch where he is facilitating. Green's always been
a good facilitator. I don't know, but neither of these
guys are true. I'm gonna go. I'm gonna go Draymond
just because maybe Bridges will not be viewed through the
Brooklyn prism.
Speaker 1: I like a lot of your logic, but you're just
it's bad. It's seventy six, Like that's a really big
jump here. So Michale with it. I think that's probably
a little too high for him. But maybe it's because
a lot of Draymond stuff is straight line or making
the quick passes after that birth like can transition as well.
So I didn't know how to feel about this, which
is why I included it.
Speaker 2: That's a good one.
Speaker 1: You want to take us out of here? That was fun.
Speaker 2: Everybody put your scores on the YouTube comments and see
how you did. See if sEH who stumped us the worst?
Was it?
Speaker 1: Well?
Speaker 2: Kevin Durant having such a good handle, was surprised.
Speaker 1: Domin Mitchell I think was, yeah, that's one I'll be
I'll lose sleepover.
Speaker 2: Now that use the comments to for to set up
a petition to send a two K to get this
sorted out. As always, bring review subscriber wherever you listen,
where you watch common YouTube doing our discord link for
the YouTube podcast description. Tell your friends, tell your enemies,
shouts crignial Keen apologies, Jared Allen