WEBVTT 1 00:00:03.160 --> 00:00:09.320 Callaroga Shark Media. 2 00:00:10.160 --> 00:00:13.000 Hi there, Johnny Mack. This is a bonus episode on 3 00:00:13.039 --> 00:00:17.600 this Friday, October third. The Mark Maren documentary Are We 4 00:00:17.800 --> 00:00:21.320 Good hits theaters. This raw, intimate portrait of comedian and 5 00:00:21.320 --> 00:00:24.640 podcast pioneer Mark Maron follows the sudden loss of his 6 00:00:24.679 --> 00:00:28.800 partner and filmmaker Lynn Shelton. Maren struggles with grief, disillusionment, 7 00:00:28.839 --> 00:00:31.960 and a shifting comedy landscape, processing it all both on 8 00:00:32.079 --> 00:00:36.479 stage and off. My guest today is Julie Sebaw. She 9 00:00:36.600 --> 00:00:40.119 is the film's producer, story editor, and originator. She'll explain 10 00:00:40.240 --> 00:00:42.799 where this came from. She's also working on a Mitch 11 00:00:42.880 --> 00:00:45.600 Hedberg documentary that'll be out in twenty six. We talked 12 00:00:45.600 --> 00:00:48.079 about that a little as well. Just while I have 13 00:00:48.159 --> 00:00:50.079 your attention, I hope I have your attention if you're 14 00:00:50.079 --> 00:00:53.479 listening to my podcast. Earlier today, the Normal Sunday episode 15 00:00:53.520 --> 00:00:55.799 went out and Johnny Mack's a little punchy on that one. 16 00:00:55.799 --> 00:00:57.560 That wasn't a lot of fun, So don't blow that 17 00:00:57.600 --> 00:01:01.280 one off. Let's jump in midsrailer here. The voices you're 18 00:01:01.280 --> 00:01:03.920 going to hear are David Cross, Mark Maren, and then 19 00:01:03.960 --> 00:01:06.560 John mulaney This is a snippet from the trailer to 20 00:01:06.560 --> 00:01:07.439 give you a little taste. 21 00:01:07.519 --> 00:01:09.560 I met Mark in the early eighties. 22 00:01:09.680 --> 00:01:12.760 I was one of a handful of people. 23 00:01:12.799 --> 00:01:16.319 There weren't many who could tolerate them. I couldn't draw, 24 00:01:16.680 --> 00:01:19.319 no matter how many Conan's I did. And that was 25 00:01:19.359 --> 00:01:21.680 part of the beginning of the podcast. It's happening. I'm 26 00:01:21.680 --> 00:01:23.159 Mark Maren. This is my podcast. 27 00:01:23.319 --> 00:01:25.560 Yeah, there's that lou read line. I accept the new 28 00:01:25.599 --> 00:01:29.280 found man, and that that is what Mark became. Are 29 00:01:29.359 --> 00:01:32.560 we good? The Mark Maren documentary in theaters when hour 30 00:01:32.599 --> 00:01:36.159 thirty seven minutes long. In Deuter's Friday, October third, here's 31 00:01:36.319 --> 00:01:39.359 Julie Sebaugh. All right, let me ask the lame question. 32 00:01:39.400 --> 00:01:40.200 Why Mark Maren? 33 00:01:41.200 --> 00:01:46.920 Why now Martin Mare? Uh? Yeah, there's something about this 34 00:01:47.040 --> 00:01:50.879 guy in a sea of comedians where he's always stood out. 35 00:01:50.879 --> 00:01:56.519 I've always been a massive fan. He speaks from not 36 00:01:56.760 --> 00:01:59.439 just the brain, not just from his gut. You know, 37 00:01:59.599 --> 00:02:02.760 this is up he has to say, and he needs 38 00:02:02.840 --> 00:02:06.799 this connection on stage with people kind of in order 39 00:02:06.840 --> 00:02:10.360 to function, and you see that a lot in comedians. 40 00:02:10.360 --> 00:02:14.680 But he's just endlessly watchable for his ability to you know, 41 00:02:14.759 --> 00:02:17.840 pull no punches, no holds barred. He will go there 42 00:02:18.840 --> 00:02:22.560 anything that is on his mind. And it's been that 43 00:02:22.599 --> 00:02:27.439 way for you know, his careers now, however, many decades, 44 00:02:28.240 --> 00:02:34.120 and he never really felt like he was successful or 45 00:02:34.479 --> 00:02:39.599 influential or moved a needle in any way. And I 46 00:02:39.639 --> 00:02:44.280 find not extremely interesting that he couldn't see what his 47 00:02:44.479 --> 00:02:48.439 fans saw. And then I was watching his instagram lives 48 00:02:48.840 --> 00:02:51.759 when the pandemic struck. He was kind of the first 49 00:02:51.759 --> 00:02:54.919 one doing those instagrams at that time. Also, just like 50 00:02:54.960 --> 00:02:59.759 he was popularizing the podcast, and the stuff he was 51 00:02:59.759 --> 00:03:02.960 shown was more you know, we're going into quarantine and 52 00:03:03.080 --> 00:03:06.400 Lynn is here and here's the cats. And then it 53 00:03:06.560 --> 00:03:11.240 changed very grammatically when Lynn suddenly passed away. It was 54 00:03:11.280 --> 00:03:16.080 an undiagnosed form of leukemia. Came absolutely out of nowhere, 55 00:03:16.360 --> 00:03:21.960 just lost her super suddenly. After realizing that he had 56 00:03:22.120 --> 00:03:24.240 found the love of his life, this was kind of 57 00:03:24.280 --> 00:03:27.520 what he'd been waiting for the whole time. And so 58 00:03:27.639 --> 00:03:30.080 I was very struck by the question of know, how 59 00:03:30.120 --> 00:03:33.479 is he going to go on to create comedy material 60 00:03:33.560 --> 00:03:37.520 after this, and also is she going to stick with him? 61 00:03:38.080 --> 00:03:40.039 Is he going to be the person he's always been, 62 00:03:41.080 --> 00:03:43.120 or is he going to be a new, better version 63 00:03:43.439 --> 00:03:47.599 of Mark Marin from her influence on him and just 64 00:03:47.680 --> 00:03:51.599 the way he was talking about her was the most raw, beautiful, 65 00:03:52.159 --> 00:03:55.400 brilliant stuff I'd seen a comedian putting out there, you know, 66 00:03:55.439 --> 00:03:59.360 through his Instagram and podcast. And they realized someone should 67 00:03:59.639 --> 00:04:03.199 docu meant this next time in his life. And after 68 00:04:03.240 --> 00:04:05.319 thinking about it a while, you know, as a major 69 00:04:05.400 --> 00:04:08.960 fan who started to make films, I realized it was 70 00:04:09.000 --> 00:04:13.599 me and I put together, you know, all the materials, 71 00:04:13.879 --> 00:04:17.839 reread the books, you started pulling some of the clips, 72 00:04:18.800 --> 00:04:22.600 and eventually approached state Stephen fine Arts, who'd made the 73 00:04:22.600 --> 00:04:25.759 Bitter Buddha documentary that Maren was in, and they had 74 00:04:25.800 --> 00:04:28.439 kind of a contentuous relationship, which I know is shocking 75 00:04:28.560 --> 00:04:31.600 with Marvin, but I also knew that he would yell 76 00:04:31.639 --> 00:04:34.720 at fine Arts through the camera, and so that was 77 00:04:34.879 --> 00:04:38.319 the reason. Yeah, I kind of feel like I know 78 00:04:38.399 --> 00:04:40.360 Maren better than he knows him still up at this point, 79 00:04:40.399 --> 00:04:43.079 because he's talking about he's going to quit comedy, he's 80 00:04:43.120 --> 00:04:46.759 going to move to Canada, and I'm just knowing, yeah, 81 00:04:46.959 --> 00:04:48.600 I don't think that's going to happen. I think he's 82 00:04:48.680 --> 00:04:51.240 going to go on stage and create the best material 83 00:04:51.480 --> 00:04:56.160 is ever created in his life, and that is what happened. 84 00:04:56.360 --> 00:05:00.639 And so the documentary basically follows this period his life 85 00:05:01.360 --> 00:05:05.639 where he's dealing with grief and who's turning it into comedy. 86 00:05:05.920 --> 00:05:08.879 And I think that's always my favorite thing about stand 87 00:05:08.959 --> 00:05:12.439 up comedy is how we can use it to help 88 00:05:12.560 --> 00:05:16.079 us with all of these emotions that the world constantly 89 00:05:16.199 --> 00:05:18.319 grows at us. And he even says in the doc 90 00:05:19.560 --> 00:05:22.800 grief is an unusual it happens to everyone. This is 91 00:05:22.959 --> 00:05:27.800 just my turn. And so yeah, it's just basically following 92 00:05:28.600 --> 00:05:31.360 following this guy on his journey, and I think that 93 00:05:31.439 --> 00:05:36.000 people can learn a lot from it. It's funny, it's 94 00:05:36.079 --> 00:05:38.759 super sad, and there's lots of cats. The cats are 95 00:05:38.839 --> 00:05:39.839 proving very popular. 96 00:05:40.600 --> 00:05:44.759 It's amazing in that he's doing his strongest work now 97 00:05:45.759 --> 00:05:50.720 on this side of just a horrible, devastating tragedy. He's 98 00:05:50.759 --> 00:05:52.720 at the peak of his powers, and he's about to 99 00:05:52.759 --> 00:05:56.639 walk away from the podcast when we probably need him most. 100 00:05:57.240 --> 00:06:01.199 I think you're right about that. Many fans who thinks 101 00:06:01.240 --> 00:06:05.920 the podcast should not be indeed, But yeah, it's an 102 00:06:05.959 --> 00:06:09.560 interesting time for him also because he has been trying 103 00:06:09.600 --> 00:06:12.639 to find a bit more peace in his life. You know, 104 00:06:12.759 --> 00:06:16.199 he turned sixty. His birthday party, we're just kind of 105 00:06:16.240 --> 00:06:19.560 looking back at his life is also included in the documentary. 106 00:06:20.399 --> 00:06:23.839 And he knows that he can be his own worst enemy, 107 00:06:24.560 --> 00:06:27.319 and I think he's just trying to be an old 108 00:06:27.399 --> 00:06:30.800 man in peace. Really, he's been fighting for so long, 109 00:06:31.480 --> 00:06:34.480 and there's definitely new generations, contrary to what he thinks, 110 00:06:34.600 --> 00:06:41.920 who are maimulating him in terms of knowing really forcing 111 00:06:42.000 --> 00:06:48.160 themselves to produce quality comedy that's uniquely personal to them 112 00:06:48.680 --> 00:06:51.879 that no one else could be doing, and also carrying 113 00:06:51.920 --> 00:06:55.319 his mantle in terms of, you know, his political beliefs. 114 00:06:55.839 --> 00:06:59.680 He does think that his popularity with his podcast has 115 00:06:59.759 --> 00:07:05.959 a some negative consequences. You know, the Joe Rogan parallels 116 00:07:06.040 --> 00:07:09.839 are always very interesting. But yeah, I think he's already 117 00:07:09.959 --> 00:07:13.079 established his place in the world enough that I don't 118 00:07:14.160 --> 00:07:17.480 probably doesn't have anything else to prove. We would like 119 00:07:17.600 --> 00:07:21.079 to continue having him as long as possible. They'll still 120 00:07:21.120 --> 00:07:23.920 be doing stand up, of course, but yeah, I think 121 00:07:23.959 --> 00:07:27.279 it's just interesting to kind of look at the podcast 122 00:07:27.360 --> 00:07:32.319 as a collection of it's committing it to history. For yeah, 123 00:07:32.519 --> 00:07:35.680 it's already in you know, the Hall of Fame for podcast. 124 00:07:35.800 --> 00:07:39.800 He's won all the awards. He's going to start doing 125 00:07:39.879 --> 00:07:43.079 some directing also, so he's continuing to b mart Maron, 126 00:07:43.319 --> 00:07:44.839 just in different form. 127 00:07:45.480 --> 00:07:47.560 We talk about the Joe Rogan of the Left. I 128 00:07:47.680 --> 00:07:50.199 feel like he could be the Joe Rogan of the Left. 129 00:07:51.000 --> 00:07:53.240 I totally get the podcast is a body of work 130 00:07:53.279 --> 00:07:54.839 and we're done with it. But I do see a 131 00:07:54.839 --> 00:07:57.720 scenario where you could do almost something like Bird does. Hey, Mark, 132 00:07:57.759 --> 00:07:59.920 could you come on on Monday and do twelve minutes 133 00:08:00.079 --> 00:08:02.319 about politics and be the Joe Rogan of the left. 134 00:08:02.399 --> 00:08:04.399 You have to go away totally. Like, I get you 135 00:08:04.439 --> 00:08:06.360 don't want to prep for guests. I get you want 136 00:08:06.399 --> 00:08:08.240 to take your foot off the gas. It's six years old. 137 00:08:08.399 --> 00:08:10.680 I get all that, But can you do ten minutes 138 00:08:10.720 --> 00:08:11.319 every other week? 139 00:08:12.319 --> 00:08:15.680 I'll just say, as somebody who knows Maren very well 140 00:08:15.720 --> 00:08:17.680 at this point, I can I can tell what kind 141 00:08:17.680 --> 00:08:19.600 of a mood he's in by the pants who's wearing, 142 00:08:20.040 --> 00:08:24.560 Like I will say, I would not be surprised if 143 00:08:24.639 --> 00:08:29.160 anything like that, Just despite is saying to the contrary, 144 00:08:29.360 --> 00:08:32.840 because I think he always knows that his fans will 145 00:08:32.879 --> 00:08:37.919 be there, and you know, again he's infinitely watchable, and 146 00:08:38.039 --> 00:08:40.960 that he will do different forms of entertainment. But no 147 00:08:41.039 --> 00:08:43.240 one's gonna tell him what to do. This is Mark Maren. 148 00:08:43.759 --> 00:08:45.159 We can't shape his opinions. 149 00:08:46.000 --> 00:08:48.000 Hopefully I have some good questions later. But I do 150 00:08:48.120 --> 00:08:50.039 have a few name questions up top, and one of 151 00:08:50.120 --> 00:08:53.120 which was, what is Mark Maren like? Now? I think 152 00:08:53.159 --> 00:08:54.679 you may have opened the door there where he said 153 00:08:54.720 --> 00:08:57.240 he just wants to, you know, go a way in peace. 154 00:08:57.360 --> 00:09:00.519 I think, and hopefully this isn't a false memory. I 155 00:09:00.759 --> 00:09:04.080 think I had a conversation with him back in two 156 00:09:04.200 --> 00:09:06.960 thousand and three or four in my early run at 157 00:09:07.120 --> 00:09:11.039 Serious Satellite Radio. I feel like I was talking to 158 00:09:11.240 --> 00:09:13.480 him in the lobby and that would have been Air 159 00:09:13.519 --> 00:09:16.720 America's Mark Mariner right after that period, and he was 160 00:09:16.759 --> 00:09:18.840 perfectly nice. I have nothing bad to say about him, 161 00:09:18.840 --> 00:09:20.320 but I just feel like his vibe was like, no, 162 00:09:20.440 --> 00:09:21.919 I'm good, you know, let me know when it's time 163 00:09:21.960 --> 00:09:23.639 to go back in the studio, and wasn't looking to hang, 164 00:09:23.799 --> 00:09:25.519 wasn't looking at a no hang. It just was like, 165 00:09:26.000 --> 00:09:28.799 I'm just here, I'm good man. Is that how he's like? 166 00:09:28.960 --> 00:09:31.600 I try to keep a respectful distance and not bother 167 00:09:31.720 --> 00:09:36.159 him too much, although I fail frequently. Yeah, even before 168 00:09:36.200 --> 00:09:40.960 this documentary. I'd written the five different journalistic pieces over 169 00:09:41.000 --> 00:09:45.879 the years, from Village Boys to La Times. Yeah, he 170 00:09:46.360 --> 00:09:49.639 certainly does have that prickly exterior, but I think we 171 00:09:49.840 --> 00:09:53.840 know as all comics, it's hiding something for Shure. Even 172 00:09:53.879 --> 00:09:57.559 now today, he's kind of been experimenting with medication. I 173 00:09:57.639 --> 00:09:59.759 think a lot of people think he probably just has 174 00:10:00.440 --> 00:10:04.799 often is a more ADHD. It's gone undiagnosed, and that 175 00:10:05.039 --> 00:10:07.639 might not be a lodge if there is some exploraging 176 00:10:07.679 --> 00:10:11.399 in that area. But yeah, I think it's all It's 177 00:10:11.799 --> 00:10:15.679 a safety mechanism, you know, it really is. Once your 178 00:10:15.759 --> 00:10:18.039 nervous system is wired in a certain way, it's very 179 00:10:18.080 --> 00:10:21.360 difficult to change it. I use comedy to try to 180 00:10:21.399 --> 00:10:25.320 do it personally. But yeah, I think he's trying to 181 00:10:25.399 --> 00:10:28.919 kind of figure out between the X tier and IN tier. 182 00:10:29.159 --> 00:10:32.080 Like you said, how to just have more peace in 183 00:10:32.159 --> 00:10:35.840 his life. It's been sixty years of chaos. Like you know, 184 00:10:36.279 --> 00:10:38.120 let the man have a good time for once. 185 00:10:38.519 --> 00:10:40.720 Makes total sense. We'll circle back to Maren for sure. 186 00:10:41.080 --> 00:10:44.200 I do want to talk about your resume. I love 187 00:10:44.279 --> 00:10:47.919 having guests on here. I explain to my audience I 188 00:10:48.080 --> 00:10:50.960 know more about comedy than most people if we go 189 00:10:51.039 --> 00:10:52.679 down to the bar, there's a good chance I know 190 00:10:52.759 --> 00:10:54.720 more about it put us on the bar. But the 191 00:10:54.759 --> 00:10:57.799 other people who know more about comedy than me know 192 00:10:58.039 --> 00:11:00.960 way more about comedy I do, and I'll put you 193 00:11:01.320 --> 00:11:04.360 in that bucket because of the work that you've done. 194 00:11:04.840 --> 00:11:07.799 I've read your pieces, I know some of your upcoming work. 195 00:11:07.840 --> 00:11:10.960 I know this work. I just love to hear you 196 00:11:11.200 --> 00:11:14.879 explain to the audience your comedy journey. 197 00:11:15.279 --> 00:11:19.399 Oh yeah, thanks. I consider myself a professional comedy fan. Really, 198 00:11:20.200 --> 00:11:23.039 I did not know what stand up comedy was until 199 00:11:23.080 --> 00:11:26.200 my senior year of college because I grew up on 200 00:11:26.240 --> 00:11:30.080 a farm in Missouri without cable and not much to 201 00:11:30.200 --> 00:11:33.200 do other than read. So I had all the books, 202 00:11:33.320 --> 00:11:36.320 all the magazines. I was very into film and music, 203 00:11:37.000 --> 00:11:38.399 and I thought I was going to write about that 204 00:11:38.919 --> 00:11:42.399 one day. So at the University of Missouri, I studied 205 00:11:42.480 --> 00:11:45.720 journalism and senior year, David tel Caaman did a show 206 00:11:46.440 --> 00:11:49.399 and I got to interview him beforehand, and then we 207 00:11:49.519 --> 00:11:53.440 hung out backstage and we went across the street to 208 00:11:53.480 --> 00:11:55.679 the journalism bar and he got everyone drunk on Ye 209 00:11:55.759 --> 00:11:59.600 you're misto and so is the height of insomniac, which 210 00:11:59.799 --> 00:12:03.799 was the most amazing experience for a college senior about 211 00:12:03.840 --> 00:12:07.559 to unleash themselves on the world of journalism. And I 212 00:12:07.679 --> 00:12:10.480 immediately moved to New York and started hanging out the 213 00:12:10.519 --> 00:12:13.919 Comedy Seller and bugging David tell more More all the time, 214 00:12:14.960 --> 00:12:18.000 still to both day, But yeah, I just fell in 215 00:12:18.039 --> 00:12:20.799 love with it because at that time, it felt like 216 00:12:21.320 --> 00:12:24.559 no one was writing about comedy as seriously as we 217 00:12:24.639 --> 00:12:28.320 see today. This was a time when comedy coverage was 218 00:12:28.399 --> 00:12:31.120 more shoved than like with the calendar listings or the 219 00:12:31.240 --> 00:12:37.399 music events, and it wasn't being perceived as individual artists 220 00:12:37.519 --> 00:12:40.240 with their own perspectives and their own means to say. 221 00:12:41.559 --> 00:12:45.320 It was just kind of a generic comedy. It's something 222 00:12:45.399 --> 00:12:48.879 you can watch on the weekends, and I really wanted 223 00:12:48.919 --> 00:12:51.960 to change that. Yeah, it's been twenty two years of 224 00:12:52.000 --> 00:12:57.919 writing about comedy. I've recently decided to call myself less 225 00:12:57.919 --> 00:13:00.960 of a journalist and more of a opera and documentarian, 226 00:13:01.799 --> 00:13:05.080 but that's a natural progression anyway. But yeah, I've covered 227 00:13:05.279 --> 00:13:08.960 all the festivals. I've been freelanced for most of the time, 228 00:13:09.200 --> 00:13:12.000 so have written for basically any title you can think of, 229 00:13:12.840 --> 00:13:15.240 and I just can't get enough. I love the live 230 00:13:15.360 --> 00:13:19.759 comedy experience sitting in the bat row of a room 231 00:13:19.879 --> 00:13:23.919 and watching all these different people from different backgrounds and 232 00:13:24.799 --> 00:13:27.360 who knows why they're there tonight, but they've all gathered 233 00:13:27.399 --> 00:13:30.120 in this one space now, laughing at the same thing 234 00:13:30.519 --> 00:13:34.240 at the same time in a way that's completely unable 235 00:13:34.279 --> 00:13:36.960 to be recreated again. And I just leave there feeling 236 00:13:36.960 --> 00:13:39.919 a little bit more optimism for the world. We can 237 00:13:40.000 --> 00:13:42.200 all agree in this thing. Maybe we'd agree on more 238 00:13:43.399 --> 00:13:45.679 that doesn't know its work out well. But that's my 239 00:13:45.799 --> 00:13:48.919 favorite part about comedy, of being able to kind of 240 00:13:49.080 --> 00:13:51.879 lose yourself in it and feel that sense of connection. 241 00:13:52.159 --> 00:13:54.600 And I will talk about comedy all day long. If 242 00:13:54.639 --> 00:13:55.360 someone lets. 243 00:13:55.519 --> 00:13:58.759 We're coming up with Julie Sebah. The documentary is called 244 00:13:58.799 --> 00:14:01.080 Are We Good? It's all about Mark Marin. Now. Behind 245 00:14:01.080 --> 00:14:03.960 the scenes, we had a little bit of audio problems. 246 00:14:04.000 --> 00:14:06.919 It was almost as if we were in space, like 247 00:14:07.000 --> 00:14:09.240 if you watch a space movie, say Apollo thirteen, and 248 00:14:09.279 --> 00:14:13.519 there's that slight delay, and you may have noticed that 249 00:14:14.360 --> 00:14:16.679 we were sort of speaking in paragraphs. That I didn't 250 00:14:16.720 --> 00:14:18.679 do what I normally do and jump in mid sentence 251 00:14:18.720 --> 00:14:20.960 because I'm enthusiastic. So I don't want you to think 252 00:14:21.440 --> 00:14:24.720 that I wasn't interested in the answers. We knew about 253 00:14:24.759 --> 00:14:27.080 the glitches, and I told Julie, I'm just going to 254 00:14:27.159 --> 00:14:29.360 hang back and let you speak in complete sentences so 255 00:14:29.399 --> 00:14:32.240 I don't step on you. So I didn't mention that 256 00:14:32.360 --> 00:14:34.440 at the open because I didn't want to poison your 257 00:14:34.519 --> 00:14:36.360 brain about it. But if for some reason you listen 258 00:14:36.360 --> 00:14:38.399 to that last segment you're like just not saying anything. 259 00:14:38.720 --> 00:14:41.320 That's why John isn't saying anything more with Julie Sebaugh 260 00:14:41.440 --> 00:14:45.159 after this. Now you dropped a note there. I want 261 00:14:45.159 --> 00:14:47.440 to circle back to can you tell me about the 262 00:14:47.639 --> 00:14:51.679 roast of Julie? Who roasted you? That must have been amazing. 263 00:14:52.559 --> 00:14:55.039 My fortieth birthday roaster was held in the belly room 264 00:14:55.080 --> 00:14:59.399 of the Comedy Store about two and a half weeks 265 00:14:59.440 --> 00:15:02.440 before Penn. It was sold out, full room. I mean 266 00:15:02.480 --> 00:15:05.720 the belly rooms very small, but yeah, there's a lot 267 00:15:05.759 --> 00:15:08.759 of industry and comics there. And at the end it 268 00:15:08.960 --> 00:15:13.440 was Jeff Ross and Davittel and I said some jokes 269 00:15:13.519 --> 00:15:17.759 about let's see the Joka talked about Jeff Ross was, uh, 270 00:15:18.679 --> 00:15:22.080 we're hey, we're in the belly room home of Jeff 271 00:15:22.200 --> 00:15:26.840 Ross presents Rose Battle and Jeff Ross presents the historical roast. 272 00:15:27.240 --> 00:15:30.000 When's Jeff Ross going to present his own material? Again? 273 00:15:30.480 --> 00:15:33.200 That's why I'm not a comic. But do you tell 274 00:15:33.559 --> 00:15:36.120 every time I have sex dreams about David Tell, I 275 00:15:36.159 --> 00:15:40.919 wake up covered and hummus, those are the ones I remember. 276 00:15:41.639 --> 00:15:45.879 But it's also like Mike Lawrence, Brad Williams. There was 277 00:15:45.919 --> 00:15:50.919 some roast battlers, Jay Light, Nicole Bacannon. Yeah, that was 278 00:15:51.000 --> 00:15:55.080 probably the highlight of my comedy career as far as 279 00:15:55.679 --> 00:15:59.480 I'm being roasted for my fortieth and it's all downhill. Yeah, 280 00:16:00.039 --> 00:16:01.559 it was a great night. I was too nervous to 281 00:16:01.600 --> 00:16:05.919 really enjoy it, but looking back, that was really really special. 282 00:16:06.320 --> 00:16:08.120 I love to tell. If I had to bet on 283 00:16:08.279 --> 00:16:12.240 one comedian do fifteen minutes and just crushing the room. 284 00:16:12.279 --> 00:16:14.919 You can't touch your normal material, just wing fifteen minutes, 285 00:16:14.960 --> 00:16:16.120 I would pick David Tel. 286 00:16:16.360 --> 00:16:18.639 Yeah. Just the idea of seeing this guy who we 287 00:16:18.720 --> 00:16:21.080 all think is so brillant, and we all watched his 288 00:16:21.559 --> 00:16:23.919 last special probably four or five times each. 289 00:16:24.039 --> 00:16:24.480 I know it. 290 00:16:24.639 --> 00:16:28.320 I know it's true, and he doesn't think he's that 291 00:16:28.559 --> 00:16:31.639 good either. I even reproached him about different projects in 292 00:16:31.679 --> 00:16:34.080 the past, and he's like ah, nobody cares like No, 293 00:16:34.360 --> 00:16:39.600 people care You're You're very influential and insomniac, got a 294 00:16:39.639 --> 00:16:44.879 lot of people into comedy myself. Yeah, so I would 295 00:16:44.879 --> 00:16:46.639 love to do something on him at some point, but 296 00:16:46.919 --> 00:16:50.240 you gotta again get past that exterior. I'm gonna keep 297 00:16:50.279 --> 00:16:50.799 working on it. 298 00:16:50.919 --> 00:16:53.279 Well, let's zero in on the documentary. Who's part of it? 299 00:16:53.720 --> 00:16:55.639 How did it come together? And how do you get 300 00:16:55.720 --> 00:16:57.679 Mark Merin even agreed to this thing. 301 00:16:58.000 --> 00:17:01.720 Yeah, after Lynn died and I started realizing that something 302 00:17:01.799 --> 00:17:03.919 needs to be made, it was either going to be 303 00:17:04.000 --> 00:17:06.839 a film or you know, just a regular journalism piece 304 00:17:06.960 --> 00:17:09.920 something like that. The first time when Fine Arts and 305 00:17:10.000 --> 00:17:13.559 I approached him was via email to have a zoom pitch, 306 00:17:14.039 --> 00:17:17.559 which he was completely noncommittal to in late twenty twenty. 307 00:17:18.640 --> 00:17:21.519 We had another one in early spring, and then when 308 00:17:21.599 --> 00:17:25.480 the venues started reopening after COVID in May of twenty 309 00:17:25.559 --> 00:17:30.200 twenty one, and he went up at the Comedy Store finally, 310 00:17:30.319 --> 00:17:32.680 after a week it had been open, and he'd been 311 00:17:32.720 --> 00:17:37.240 saying he's quitting moving Canada all that stuff, And when 312 00:17:37.279 --> 00:17:39.079 I thought he was going to be there, I told 313 00:17:39.200 --> 00:17:41.880 Fine Arts to bring a camera and show up at 314 00:17:41.880 --> 00:17:45.359 the Comedy store and we went in and basically told 315 00:17:45.440 --> 00:17:48.720 him he we're doing this now, and you know, he 316 00:17:48.920 --> 00:17:53.680 realizes when things can be of value to him and 317 00:17:54.440 --> 00:17:56.799 it did take a while to kind of break down 318 00:17:56.880 --> 00:18:02.039 the external shell. But it really is the most raw 319 00:18:02.119 --> 00:18:05.440 you've ever seen him in a lot of ways. Again, 320 00:18:05.640 --> 00:18:09.640 there's laughing, that's crying, there's again the cats are a 321 00:18:09.720 --> 00:18:12.400 big part of it as well. But yeah, when you 322 00:18:12.519 --> 00:18:16.519 start to get people like John Mulaney, some great stories 323 00:18:16.559 --> 00:18:21.880 from Caroline Ray, David Cross, Sam Lipsy, his best friend, 324 00:18:21.960 --> 00:18:25.079 his producer Brendan McDonald, to really kind of fill in 325 00:18:26.119 --> 00:18:29.960 these places in his story over his life or he 326 00:18:30.920 --> 00:18:32.799 might have one view of it, but people have a 327 00:18:32.839 --> 00:18:36.480 different view of it. And actually when he watched it 328 00:18:36.599 --> 00:18:39.599 for the first time, the first cut he saw was 329 00:18:39.640 --> 00:18:43.279 the last week of February before South By Southwest, and 330 00:18:43.720 --> 00:18:46.119 I remember getting an email from him and he said 331 00:18:46.160 --> 00:18:49.880 he actually learned a lot about himself from watching it. 332 00:18:50.920 --> 00:18:54.200 So I think it was just trusting that process of 333 00:18:54.680 --> 00:18:57.000 you know who, those people can tell this story in 334 00:18:57.119 --> 00:19:00.359 the right way and they're not going to screw over 335 00:19:01.119 --> 00:19:03.599 And yeah, it was just kind of which is Yeah, 336 00:19:03.640 --> 00:19:05.839 it was. It was a five year labor of love 337 00:19:06.079 --> 00:19:08.440 that I think we're all really proud. 338 00:19:08.200 --> 00:19:10.759 Of in the end, is this therapy for him or 339 00:19:10.920 --> 00:19:13.440 is this like a low key victory lap or he 340 00:19:13.480 --> 00:19:16.440 wouldn't admit to that, or both or neither, Yeah, all 341 00:19:16.519 --> 00:19:17.279 the above. Maybe. 342 00:19:17.440 --> 00:19:22.920 Yeah, He's definitely still doing therapy here here and there. 343 00:19:23.000 --> 00:19:27.480 He might think it's not enough, but and still you 344 00:19:27.599 --> 00:19:31.680 know his meetings, you know the recovery meetings, those are 345 00:19:31.720 --> 00:19:35.920 still in full effect. I do think that the timing 346 00:19:36.000 --> 00:19:40.279 of him wanting to quit the podcast now is very 347 00:19:40.359 --> 00:19:44.200 interesting because he does view it as a statement piece 348 00:19:44.240 --> 00:19:47.839 about Mark Marin and kind of wrapping up this circle 349 00:19:47.920 --> 00:19:51.759 of this time in his life. Yeah. I think it's 350 00:19:51.799 --> 00:19:54.799 going to be a matter of really being honest with 351 00:19:54.960 --> 00:20:00.240 himself and really opening the door to new possibilities. I 352 00:20:00.319 --> 00:20:04.000 think he's trying. It's hard. It's hard for all of us, 353 00:20:04.519 --> 00:20:06.559 and he's just the one we're watching do it and 354 00:20:06.720 --> 00:20:08.839 try to hit some inspiration in the meantime. 355 00:20:09.240 --> 00:20:12.319 It's so interesting about Pete Mehren. His last special clearly 356 00:20:12.440 --> 00:20:14.640 is best. He's even said that, And I teach you 357 00:20:14.799 --> 00:20:16.720 a few college classes. They teach you about the Obama 358 00:20:16.799 --> 00:20:20.039 episode as the best podcast episode ever done. No qualifier. 359 00:20:20.240 --> 00:20:21.680 The reason I say that, if you listen to it. 360 00:20:21.799 --> 00:20:23.759 At first, the President of the United States shows up, 361 00:20:23.839 --> 00:20:27.359 and then at some point mister Obama drops that he's 362 00:20:27.480 --> 00:20:30.359 just baracking a garage having a conversation with Mark, and 363 00:20:30.400 --> 00:20:32.720 towards the end the President of the United States comes back. 364 00:20:32.759 --> 00:20:34.920 But for the middle there there's two guys in a 365 00:20:34.960 --> 00:20:36.400 garage and it's beautiful. 366 00:20:36.640 --> 00:20:39.480 Yeah, that's the whole goal of WTF is. He wanted 367 00:20:39.720 --> 00:20:43.279 real people to drop the facade and have a conversation 368 00:20:43.440 --> 00:20:46.799 with him person to persian, and the formula has worked 369 00:20:47.039 --> 00:20:52.480 extremely well. My favorite episode is Todd Glass personally because 370 00:20:52.920 --> 00:20:56.240 when we went on and chose that as a platform 371 00:20:56.720 --> 00:21:00.519 to come out of the closet and kind of tell 372 00:21:00.599 --> 00:21:03.599 his story, it was Maren that he trusted and it 373 00:21:03.759 --> 00:21:08.480 was so again, so beautiful. Just the trust he put 374 00:21:08.519 --> 00:21:12.880 in Maren and the idea that this was the platform 375 00:21:14.160 --> 00:21:19.880 where comics felt safe and understood, I thought was hugely just. 376 00:21:20.079 --> 00:21:22.640 I listened to that all the time, still in a 377 00:21:22.720 --> 00:21:27.319 lot of ways for different and also I know todded 378 00:21:27.400 --> 00:21:32.559 last too, but there's just a different way of interacting 379 00:21:32.680 --> 00:21:35.599 when you can shut out all those distractions and you're 380 00:21:35.599 --> 00:21:38.279 in the sound proper and it's just you another person 381 00:21:38.759 --> 00:21:41.880 where you can really I'm going to use the word 382 00:21:42.000 --> 00:21:46.119 unmask which has to do with neurodivergens. But there's yeah, 383 00:21:46.279 --> 00:21:49.920 something uniek he created in that he wanted to be 384 00:21:50.200 --> 00:21:52.759 liked and we wanted to like him, and this was 385 00:21:52.839 --> 00:21:56.839 kind of our from Avatar for doing so. So yeah, 386 00:21:57.039 --> 00:21:58.880 I think there's this I would I want to hear 387 00:21:58.960 --> 00:22:02.359 more about your class, but I think there's endlessly examples 388 00:22:03.559 --> 00:22:04.960 and I want to take it. I want to take 389 00:22:04.960 --> 00:22:09.880 your book. Yeah, they're just endless examples of moments from 390 00:22:09.920 --> 00:22:14.759 the podcast that you know, you really see humanity, you 391 00:22:14.839 --> 00:22:17.400 know in a way that a lot of these comedians 392 00:22:17.480 --> 00:22:20.240 and actors and everyone else he has on. It's not 393 00:22:20.400 --> 00:22:23.480 just typical promotion. And again it says in the movie 394 00:22:23.559 --> 00:22:26.599 like you're coming into Maren's world, you have to talk 395 00:22:26.680 --> 00:22:29.559 to him. You have to be yourself. That's the reason 396 00:22:29.599 --> 00:22:31.319 why WTF has worked all this time. 397 00:22:31.559 --> 00:22:33.039 So when you flip that and Mark's on the other 398 00:22:33.079 --> 00:22:34.359 side of the camera, how do you make sure you're 399 00:22:34.400 --> 00:22:36.640 capturing real Mark Maren and not know I'm on camera 400 00:22:36.759 --> 00:22:39.000 right now, I better turn it on or show this 401 00:22:39.119 --> 00:22:41.359