Speaker 1: Callaroga Shark Media.
Speaker 2: Hi there, Johnny Mack. This is a bonus episode on
Speaker 2: this Friday, October third. The Mark Maren documentary Are We
Speaker 2: Good hits theaters. This raw, intimate portrait of comedian and
Speaker 2: podcast pioneer Mark Maron follows the sudden loss of his
Speaker 2: partner and filmmaker Lynn Shelton. Maren struggles with grief, disillusionment,
Speaker 2: and a shifting comedy landscape, processing it all both on
Speaker 2: stage and off. My guest today is Julie Sebaw. She
Speaker 2: is the film's producer, story editor, and originator. She'll explain
Speaker 2: where this came from. She's also working on a Mitch
Speaker 2: Hedberg documentary that'll be out in twenty six. We talked
Speaker 2: about that a little as well. Just while I have
Speaker 2: your attention, I hope I have your attention if you're
Speaker 2: listening to my podcast. Earlier today, the Normal Sunday episode
Speaker 2: went out and Johnny Mack's a little punchy on that one.
Speaker 2: That wasn't a lot of fun, So don't blow that
Speaker 2: one off. Let's jump in midsrailer here. The voices you're
Speaker 2: going to hear are David Cross, Mark Maren, and then
Speaker 2: John mulaney This is a snippet from the trailer to
Speaker 2: give you a little taste.
Speaker 1: I met Mark in the early eighties.
Speaker 2: I was one of a handful of people.
Speaker 1: There weren't many who could tolerate them. I couldn't draw,
Speaker 1: no matter how many Conan's I did. And that was
Speaker 1: part of the beginning of the podcast. It's happening. I'm
Speaker 1: Mark Maren. This is my podcast.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's that lou read line. I accept the new
Speaker 2: found man, and that that is what Mark became. Are
Speaker 2: we good? The Mark Maren documentary in theaters when hour
Speaker 2: thirty seven minutes long. In Deuter's Friday, October third, here's
Speaker 2: Julie Sebaugh. All right, let me ask the lame question.
Speaker 2: Why Mark Maren?
Speaker 1: Why now Martin Mare? Uh? Yeah, there's something about this
Speaker 1: guy in a sea of comedians where he's always stood out.
Speaker 1: I've always been a massive fan. He speaks from not
Speaker 1: just the brain, not just from his gut. You know,
Speaker 1: this is up he has to say, and he needs
Speaker 1: this connection on stage with people kind of in order
Speaker 1: to function, and you see that a lot in comedians.
Speaker 1: But he's just endlessly watchable for his ability to you know,
Speaker 1: pull no punches, no holds barred. He will go there
Speaker 1: anything that is on his mind. And it's been that
Speaker 1: way for you know, his careers now, however, many decades,
Speaker 1: and he never really felt like he was successful or
Speaker 1: influential or moved a needle in any way. And I
Speaker 1: find not extremely interesting that he couldn't see what his
Speaker 1: fans saw. And then I was watching his instagram lives
Speaker 1: when the pandemic struck. He was kind of the first
Speaker 1: one doing those instagrams at that time. Also, just like
Speaker 1: he was popularizing the podcast, and the stuff he was
Speaker 1: shown was more you know, we're going into quarantine and
Speaker 1: Lynn is here and here's the cats. And then it
Speaker 1: changed very grammatically when Lynn suddenly passed away. It was
Speaker 1: an undiagnosed form of leukemia. Came absolutely out of nowhere,
Speaker 1: just lost her super suddenly. After realizing that he had
Speaker 1: found the love of his life, this was kind of
Speaker 1: what he'd been waiting for the whole time. And so
Speaker 1: I was very struck by the question of know, how
Speaker 1: is he going to go on to create comedy material
Speaker 1: after this, and also is she going to stick with him?
Speaker 1: Is he going to be the person he's always been,
Speaker 1: or is he going to be a new, better version
Speaker 1: of Mark Marin from her influence on him and just
Speaker 1: the way he was talking about her was the most raw, beautiful,
Speaker 1: brilliant stuff I'd seen a comedian putting out there, you know,
Speaker 1: through his Instagram and podcast. And they realized someone should
Speaker 1: docu meant this next time in his life. And after
Speaker 1: thinking about it a while, you know, as a major
Speaker 1: fan who started to make films, I realized it was
Speaker 1: me and I put together, you know, all the materials,
Speaker 1: reread the books, you started pulling some of the clips,
Speaker 1: and eventually approached state Stephen fine Arts, who'd made the
Speaker 1: Bitter Buddha documentary that Maren was in, and they had
Speaker 1: kind of a contentuous relationship, which I know is shocking
Speaker 1: with Marvin, but I also knew that he would yell
Speaker 1: at fine Arts through the camera, and so that was
Speaker 1: the reason. Yeah, I kind of feel like I know
Speaker 1: Maren better than he knows him still up at this point,
Speaker 1: because he's talking about he's going to quit comedy, he's
Speaker 1: going to move to Canada, and I'm just knowing, yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't think that's going to happen. I think he's
Speaker 1: going to go on stage and create the best material
Speaker 1: is ever created in his life, and that is what happened.
Speaker 1: And so the documentary basically follows this period his life
Speaker 1: where he's dealing with grief and who's turning it into comedy.
Speaker 1: And I think that's always my favorite thing about stand
Speaker 1: up comedy is how we can use it to help
Speaker 1: us with all of these emotions that the world constantly
Speaker 1: grows at us. And he even says in the doc
Speaker 1: grief is an unusual it happens to everyone. This is
Speaker 1: just my turn. And so yeah, it's just basically following
Speaker 1: following this guy on his journey, and I think that
Speaker 1: people can learn a lot from it. It's funny, it's
Speaker 1: super sad, and there's lots of cats. The cats are
Speaker 1: proving very popular.
Speaker 2: It's amazing in that he's doing his strongest work now
Speaker 2: on this side of just a horrible, devastating tragedy. He's
Speaker 2: at the peak of his powers, and he's about to
Speaker 2: walk away from the podcast when we probably need him most.
Speaker 1: I think you're right about that. Many fans who thinks
Speaker 1: the podcast should not be indeed, But yeah, it's an
Speaker 1: interesting time for him also because he has been trying
Speaker 1: to find a bit more peace in his life. You know,
Speaker 1: he turned sixty. His birthday party, we're just kind of
Speaker 1: looking back at his life is also included in the documentary.
Speaker 1: And he knows that he can be his own worst enemy,
Speaker 1: and I think he's just trying to be an old
Speaker 1: man in peace. Really, he's been fighting for so long,
Speaker 1: and there's definitely new generations, contrary to what he thinks,
Speaker 1: who are maimulating him in terms of knowing really forcing
Speaker 1: themselves to produce quality comedy that's uniquely personal to them
Speaker 1: that no one else could be doing, and also carrying
Speaker 1: his mantle in terms of, you know, his political beliefs.
Speaker 1: He does think that his popularity with his podcast has
Speaker 1: a some negative consequences. You know, the Joe Rogan parallels
Speaker 1: are always very interesting. But yeah, I think he's already
Speaker 1: established his place in the world enough that I don't
Speaker 1: probably doesn't have anything else to prove. We would like
Speaker 1: to continue having him as long as possible. They'll still
Speaker 1: be doing stand up, of course, but yeah, I think
Speaker 1: it's just interesting to kind of look at the podcast
Speaker 1: as a collection of it's committing it to history. For yeah,
Speaker 1: it's already in you know, the Hall of Fame for podcast.
Speaker 1: He's won all the awards. He's going to start doing
Speaker 1: some directing also, so he's continuing to b mart Maron,
Speaker 1: just in different form.
Speaker 2: We talk about the Joe Rogan of the Left. I
Speaker 2: feel like he could be the Joe Rogan of the Left.
Speaker 2: I totally get the podcast is a body of work
Speaker 2: and we're done with it. But I do see a
Speaker 2: scenario where you could do almost something like Bird does. Hey, Mark,
Speaker 2: could you come on on Monday and do twelve minutes
Speaker 2: about politics and be the Joe Rogan of the left.
Speaker 2: You have to go away totally. Like, I get you
Speaker 2: don't want to prep for guests. I get you want
Speaker 2: to take your foot off the gas. It's six years old.
Speaker 2: I get all that, But can you do ten minutes
Speaker 2: every other week?
Speaker 1: I'll just say, as somebody who knows Maren very well
Speaker 1: at this point, I can I can tell what kind
Speaker 1: of a mood he's in by the pants who's wearing,
Speaker 1: Like I will say, I would not be surprised if
Speaker 1: anything like that, Just despite is saying to the contrary,
Speaker 1: because I think he always knows that his fans will
Speaker 1: be there, and you know, again he's infinitely watchable, and
Speaker 1: that he will do different forms of entertainment. But no
Speaker 1: one's gonna tell him what to do. This is Mark Maren.
Speaker 1: We can't shape his opinions.
Speaker 2: Hopefully I have some good questions later. But I do
Speaker 2: have a few name questions up top, and one of
Speaker 2: which was, what is Mark Maren like? Now? I think
Speaker 2: you may have opened the door there where he said
Speaker 2: he just wants to, you know, go a way in peace.
Speaker 2: I think, and hopefully this isn't a false memory. I
Speaker 2: think I had a conversation with him back in two
Speaker 2: thousand and three or four in my early run at
Speaker 2: Serious Satellite Radio. I feel like I was talking to
Speaker 2: him in the lobby and that would have been Air
Speaker 2: America's Mark Mariner right after that period, and he was
Speaker 2: perfectly nice. I have nothing bad to say about him,
Speaker 2: but I just feel like his vibe was like, no,
Speaker 2: I'm good, you know, let me know when it's time
Speaker 2: to go back in the studio, and wasn't looking to hang,
Speaker 2: wasn't looking at a no hang. It just was like,
Speaker 2: I'm just here, I'm good man. Is that how he's like?
Speaker 1: I try to keep a respectful distance and not bother
Speaker 1: him too much, although I fail frequently. Yeah, even before
Speaker 1: this documentary. I'd written the five different journalistic pieces over
Speaker 1: the years, from Village Boys to La Times. Yeah, he
Speaker 1: certainly does have that prickly exterior, but I think we
Speaker 1: know as all comics, it's hiding something for Shure. Even
Speaker 1: now today, he's kind of been experimenting with medication. I
Speaker 1: think a lot of people think he probably just has
Speaker 1: often is a more ADHD. It's gone undiagnosed, and that
Speaker 1: might not be a lodge if there is some exploraging
Speaker 1: in that area. But yeah, I think it's all It's
Speaker 1: a safety mechanism, you know, it really is. Once your
Speaker 1: nervous system is wired in a certain way, it's very
Speaker 1: difficult to change it. I use comedy to try to
Speaker 1: do it personally. But yeah, I think he's trying to
Speaker 1: kind of figure out between the X tier and IN tier.
Speaker 1: Like you said, how to just have more peace in
Speaker 1: his life. It's been sixty years of chaos. Like you know,
Speaker 1: let the man have a good time for once.
Speaker 2: Makes total sense. We'll circle back to Maren for sure.
Speaker 2: I do want to talk about your resume. I love
Speaker 2: having guests on here. I explain to my audience I
Speaker 2: know more about comedy than most people if we go
Speaker 2: down to the bar, there's a good chance I know
Speaker 2: more about it put us on the bar. But the
Speaker 2: other people who know more about comedy than me know
Speaker 2: way more about comedy I do, and I'll put you
Speaker 2: in that bucket because of the work that you've done.
Speaker 2: I've read your pieces, I know some of your upcoming work.
Speaker 2: I know this work. I just love to hear you
Speaker 2: explain to the audience your comedy journey.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, thanks. I consider myself a professional comedy fan. Really,
Speaker 1: I did not know what stand up comedy was until
Speaker 1: my senior year of college because I grew up on
Speaker 1: a farm in Missouri without cable and not much to
Speaker 1: do other than read. So I had all the books,
Speaker 1: all the magazines. I was very into film and music,
Speaker 1: and I thought I was going to write about that
Speaker 1: one day. So at the University of Missouri, I studied
Speaker 1: journalism and senior year, David tel Caaman did a show
Speaker 1: and I got to interview him beforehand, and then we
Speaker 1: hung out backstage and we went across the street to
Speaker 1: the journalism bar and he got everyone drunk on Ye
Speaker 1: you're misto and so is the height of insomniac, which
Speaker 1: was the most amazing experience for a college senior about
Speaker 1: to unleash themselves on the world of journalism. And I
Speaker 1: immediately moved to New York and started hanging out the
Speaker 1: Comedy Seller and bugging David tell more More all the time,
Speaker 1: still to both day, But yeah, I just fell in
Speaker 1: love with it because at that time, it felt like
Speaker 1: no one was writing about comedy as seriously as we
Speaker 1: see today. This was a time when comedy coverage was
Speaker 1: more shoved than like with the calendar listings or the
Speaker 1: music events, and it wasn't being perceived as individual artists
Speaker 1: with their own perspectives and their own means to say.
Speaker 1: It was just kind of a generic comedy. It's something
Speaker 1: you can watch on the weekends, and I really wanted
Speaker 1: to change that. Yeah, it's been twenty two years of
Speaker 1: writing about comedy. I've recently decided to call myself less
Speaker 1: of a journalist and more of a opera and documentarian,
Speaker 1: but that's a natural progression anyway. But yeah, I've covered
Speaker 1: all the festivals. I've been freelanced for most of the time,
Speaker 1: so have written for basically any title you can think of,
Speaker 1: and I just can't get enough. I love the live
Speaker 1: comedy experience sitting in the bat row of a room
Speaker 1: and watching all these different people from different backgrounds and
Speaker 1: who knows why they're there tonight, but they've all gathered
Speaker 1: in this one space now, laughing at the same thing
Speaker 1: at the same time in a way that's completely unable
Speaker 1: to be recreated again. And I just leave there feeling
Speaker 1: a little bit more optimism for the world. We can
Speaker 1: all agree in this thing. Maybe we'd agree on more
Speaker 1: that doesn't know its work out well. But that's my
Speaker 1: favorite part about comedy, of being able to kind of
Speaker 1: lose yourself in it and feel that sense of connection.
Speaker 1: And I will talk about comedy all day long. If
Speaker 1: someone lets.
Speaker 2: We're coming up with Julie Sebah. The documentary is called
Speaker 2: Are We Good? It's all about Mark Marin. Now. Behind
Speaker 2: the scenes, we had a little bit of audio problems.
Speaker 2: It was almost as if we were in space, like
Speaker 2: if you watch a space movie, say Apollo thirteen, and
Speaker 2: there's that slight delay, and you may have noticed that
Speaker 2: we were sort of speaking in paragraphs. That I didn't
Speaker 2: do what I normally do and jump in mid sentence
Speaker 2: because I'm enthusiastic. So I don't want you to think
Speaker 2: that I wasn't interested in the answers. We knew about
Speaker 2: the glitches, and I told Julie, I'm just going to
Speaker 2: hang back and let you speak in complete sentences so
Speaker 2: I don't step on you. So I didn't mention that
Speaker 2: at the open because I didn't want to poison your
Speaker 2: brain about it. But if for some reason you listen
Speaker 2: to that last segment you're like just not saying anything.
Speaker 2: That's why John isn't saying anything more with Julie Sebaugh
Speaker 2: after this. Now you dropped a note there. I want
Speaker 2: to circle back to can you tell me about the
Speaker 2: roast of Julie? Who roasted you? That must have been amazing.
Speaker 1: My fortieth birthday roaster was held in the belly room
Speaker 1: of the Comedy Store about two and a half weeks
Speaker 1: before Penn. It was sold out, full room. I mean
Speaker 1: the belly rooms very small, but yeah, there's a lot
Speaker 1: of industry and comics there. And at the end it
Speaker 1: was Jeff Ross and Davittel and I said some jokes
Speaker 1: about let's see the Joka talked about Jeff Ross was, uh,
Speaker 1: we're hey, we're in the belly room home of Jeff
Speaker 1: Ross presents Rose Battle and Jeff Ross presents the historical roast.
Speaker 1: When's Jeff Ross going to present his own material? Again?
Speaker 1: That's why I'm not a comic. But do you tell
Speaker 1: every time I have sex dreams about David Tell, I
Speaker 1: wake up covered and hummus, those are the ones I remember.
Speaker 1: But it's also like Mike Lawrence, Brad Williams. There was
Speaker 1: some roast battlers, Jay Light, Nicole Bacannon. Yeah, that was
Speaker 1: probably the highlight of my comedy career as far as
Speaker 1: I'm being roasted for my fortieth and it's all downhill. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it was a great night. I was too nervous to
Speaker 1: really enjoy it, but looking back, that was really really special.
Speaker 2: I love to tell. If I had to bet on
Speaker 2: one comedian do fifteen minutes and just crushing the room.
Speaker 2: You can't touch your normal material, just wing fifteen minutes,
Speaker 2: I would pick David Tel.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Just the idea of seeing this guy who we
Speaker 1: all think is so brillant, and we all watched his
Speaker 1: last special probably four or five times each.
Speaker 2: I know it.
Speaker 1: I know it's true, and he doesn't think he's that
Speaker 1: good either. I even reproached him about different projects in
Speaker 1: the past, and he's like ah, nobody cares like No,
Speaker 1: people care You're You're very influential and insomniac, got a
Speaker 1: lot of people into comedy myself. Yeah, so I would
Speaker 1: love to do something on him at some point, but
Speaker 1: you gotta again get past that exterior. I'm gonna keep
Speaker 1: working on it.
Speaker 2: Well, let's zero in on the documentary. Who's part of it?
Speaker 2: How did it come together? And how do you get
Speaker 2: Mark Merin even agreed to this thing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, after Lynn died and I started realizing that something
Speaker 1: needs to be made, it was either going to be
Speaker 1: a film or you know, just a regular journalism piece
Speaker 1: something like that. The first time when Fine Arts and
Speaker 1: I approached him was via email to have a zoom pitch,
Speaker 1: which he was completely noncommittal to in late twenty twenty.
Speaker 1: We had another one in early spring, and then when
Speaker 1: the venues started reopening after COVID in May of twenty
Speaker 1: twenty one, and he went up at the Comedy Store finally,
Speaker 1: after a week it had been open, and he'd been
Speaker 1: saying he's quitting moving Canada all that stuff, And when
Speaker 1: I thought he was going to be there, I told
Speaker 1: Fine Arts to bring a camera and show up at
Speaker 1: the Comedy store and we went in and basically told
Speaker 1: him he we're doing this now, and you know, he
Speaker 1: realizes when things can be of value to him and
Speaker 1: it did take a while to kind of break down
Speaker 1: the external shell. But it really is the most raw
Speaker 1: you've ever seen him in a lot of ways. Again,
Speaker 1: there's laughing, that's crying, there's again the cats are a
Speaker 1: big part of it as well. But yeah, when you
Speaker 1: start to get people like John Mulaney, some great stories
Speaker 1: from Caroline Ray, David Cross, Sam Lipsy, his best friend,
Speaker 1: his producer Brendan McDonald, to really kind of fill in
Speaker 1: these places in his story over his life or he
Speaker 1: might have one view of it, but people have a
Speaker 1: different view of it. And actually when he watched it
Speaker 1: for the first time, the first cut he saw was
Speaker 1: the last week of February before South By Southwest, and
Speaker 1: I remember getting an email from him and he said
Speaker 1: he actually learned a lot about himself from watching it.
Speaker 1: So I think it was just trusting that process of
Speaker 1: you know who, those people can tell this story in
Speaker 1: the right way and they're not going to screw over
Speaker 1: And yeah, it was just kind of which is Yeah,
Speaker 1: it was. It was a five year labor of love
Speaker 1: that I think we're all really proud.
Speaker 2: Of in the end, is this therapy for him or
Speaker 2: is this like a low key victory lap or he
Speaker 2: wouldn't admit to that, or both or neither, Yeah, all
Speaker 2: the above. Maybe.
Speaker 1: Yeah, He's definitely still doing therapy here here and there.
Speaker 1: He might think it's not enough, but and still you
Speaker 1: know his meetings, you know the recovery meetings, those are
Speaker 1: still in full effect. I do think that the timing
Speaker 1: of him wanting to quit the podcast now is very
Speaker 1: interesting because he does view it as a statement piece
Speaker 1: about Mark Marin and kind of wrapping up this circle
Speaker 1: of this time in his life. Yeah. I think it's
Speaker 1: going to be a matter of really being honest with
Speaker 1: himself and really opening the door to new possibilities. I
Speaker 1: think he's trying. It's hard. It's hard for all of us,
Speaker 1: and he's just the one we're watching do it and
Speaker 1: try to hit some inspiration in the meantime.
Speaker 2: It's so interesting about Pete Mehren. His last special clearly
Speaker 2: is best. He's even said that, And I teach you
Speaker 2: a few college classes. They teach you about the Obama
Speaker 2: episode as the best podcast episode ever done. No qualifier.
Speaker 2: The reason I say that, if you listen to it.
Speaker 2: At first, the President of the United States shows up,
Speaker 2: and then at some point mister Obama drops that he's
Speaker 2: just baracking a garage having a conversation with Mark, and
Speaker 2: towards the end the President of the United States comes back.
Speaker 2: But for the middle there there's two guys in a
Speaker 2: garage and it's beautiful.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the whole goal of WTF is. He wanted
Speaker 1: real people to drop the facade and have a conversation
Speaker 1: with him person to persian, and the formula has worked
Speaker 1: extremely well. My favorite episode is Todd Glass personally because
Speaker 1: when we went on and chose that as a platform
Speaker 1: to come out of the closet and kind of tell
Speaker 1: his story, it was Maren that he trusted and it
Speaker 1: was so again, so beautiful. Just the trust he put
Speaker 1: in Maren and the idea that this was the platform
Speaker 1: where comics felt safe and understood, I thought was hugely just.
Speaker 1: I listened to that all the time, still in a
Speaker 1: lot of ways for different and also I know todded
Speaker 1: last too, but there's just a different way of interacting
Speaker 1: when you can shut out all those distractions and you're
Speaker 1: in the sound proper and it's just you another person
Speaker 1: where you can really I'm going to use the word
Speaker 1: unmask which has to do with neurodivergens. But there's yeah,
Speaker 1: something uniek he created in that he wanted to be
Speaker 1: liked and we wanted to like him, and this was
Speaker 1: kind of our from Avatar for doing so. So yeah,
Speaker 1: I think there's this I would I want to hear
Speaker 1: more about your class, but I think there's endlessly examples
Speaker 1: and I want to take it. I want to take
Speaker 1: your book. Yeah, they're just endless examples of moments from
Speaker 1: the podcast that you know, you really see humanity, you
Speaker 1: know in a way that a lot of these comedians
Speaker 1: and actors and everyone else he has on. It's not
Speaker 1: just typical promotion. And again it says in the movie
Speaker 1: like you're coming into Maren's world, you have to talk
Speaker 1: to him. You have to be yourself. That's the reason
Speaker 1: why WTF has worked all this time.
Speaker 2: So when you flip that and Mark's on the other
Speaker 2: side of the camera, how do you make sure you're
Speaker 2: capturing real Mark Maren and not know I'm on camera
Speaker 2: right now, I better turn it on or show this
Speaker 2: side of my personality. How do you get the real guy?
Speaker 1: I feel like the real Mark Maren is never far
Speaker 1: from the service. It's oways bursting to come out. And
Speaker 1: it really was just a matter of waiting for those moments,
Speaker 1: and we had a lot of footage, We went to
Speaker 1: a lot of cities and again five year labor of love,
Speaker 1: and it was just a matter of really going in
Speaker 1: and focusing on what are the actual merit moments, you know,
Speaker 1: what is uniquely and what is he's saying that no
Speaker 1: one else is going to say, and also being really
Speaker 1: truthful about it and not making it a promotional or
Speaker 1: a pup piece or anything like that. And again he
Speaker 1: didn't see it until the end, so I can say
Speaker 1: all of that. And yet also in certain ways he
Speaker 1: didn't have a choice. What's what He decided this is
Speaker 1: going to be a real thing with real emotions, and
Speaker 1: we were all just kind of along for the ride
Speaker 1: with it together with him.
Speaker 2: How does it work creatively? Does he have sign off
Speaker 2: at all if he doesn't like the final version of it?
Speaker 2: So there's the legal aspect of the question, there's the
Speaker 2: spiritual aspect of that question. And he clearly didn't set
Speaker 2: up to do a hit piece on Mark Marron. But
Speaker 2: along the way if we found out, I don't know,
Speaker 2: he throws eggs at children on Halloween, and he was like,
Speaker 2: don't put that in. That makes me look jerky. What's
Speaker 2: signe off there? What's the verbal agreement, the spiritual agreement?
Speaker 2: And how do you approach that as a creator?
Speaker 1: The only thing was if he could say if something
Speaker 1: made him uncomfortable, and there was none of it at all.
Speaker 1: There was a few jokes that some of the interviewees
Speaker 1: made at his expense that got removed that didn't really
Speaker 1: add anything to the story, but that was really it.
Speaker 1: He saw it about ninety nine percent as audience. We'll
Speaker 1: start seeing it next week on Friday. Yeah, he was
Speaker 1: very trusting, probably more so than he should have been.
Speaker 2: That's a very interesting answer. Let's expand on that. More
Speaker 2: than he should have been? What do you mean there?
Speaker 1: It really was just about having these previous relationships. I
Speaker 1: don't think anybody else could have pulled this off. I've
Speaker 1: known him for fifteen years. I think Fine Arts was
Speaker 1: maybe a little bit less, and that was kind of
Speaker 1: all the people he had to deal with. Nobody else,
Speaker 1: So it was just really having this circle of knowing
Speaker 1: we're gonna all do the right thing here and make it,
Speaker 1: like I said, not a hit piece, not a puff piece,
Speaker 1: but honest, you know, I'm someone who's done journalism twenty
Speaker 1: two years and that's what I want. I want a
Speaker 1: journalistic story where you're showing, not telling. Everything speaks for itself.
Speaker 1: You don't need to color it with opinions. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: cannot say how proud I am of finally getting this done.
Speaker 1: And I think it's very emotional and you're actually kind
Speaker 1: of getting me like thinking like, yeah, we really did
Speaker 1: do a good job here. When you're caught up in
Speaker 1: it for five years, it's hard to see that. But yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm not sure other than like, Maren's an amazing subject
Speaker 1: and when he allows you to do what you do best,
Speaker 1: then everyone wins.
Speaker 2: You're really speaking about trust and the entertainment industries. We
Speaker 2: both know there are a few people that aren't so awesome.
Speaker 2: There are a few people are awesome. There's someone aren't awesome.
Speaker 2: And I think that knowing you're working with somebody who's
Speaker 2: not going to hand in a hit piece or a
Speaker 2: jerk face piece, I think that really goes a long way.
Speaker 2: So I'll plaud you for that for having that with
Speaker 2: Mark Marin, who I imagine is guarded.
Speaker 1: You are correct, Yes, it really has this been you
Speaker 1: know again, she's known us for so long. That being said, Uh,
Speaker 1: here's a tip for everyone, especially the ladies. Get it
Speaker 1: all on writing record all of your meetings. Don't allow
Speaker 1: yourself to be in a position of taking advantage of Uh.
Speaker 1: That's yeah, that's just a tip for everyone. Protect yourselves,
Speaker 1: but also don't lose that humanity and trust. At the
Speaker 1: same time, just backing up with some paperwar.
Speaker 2: We're coming up with Julie Seabaws we talk about the documentary.
Speaker 2: Are we good? All about Mark Maron? Because I'm an
Speaker 2: honest person, I just want to let you know in
Speaker 2: that last I did revoice my questions to clear up
Speaker 2: some audio glitches, but you didn't notice. Did you know
Speaker 2: you didn't? You are also working on a Mitch Hedberg documentary.
Speaker 2: Now I'm obsessed with Mitch Edburg. When I heard this
Speaker 2: thing was happening, I couldn't wait for it. As I
Speaker 2: prepped for a conversation today, I saw that you had
Speaker 2: mentioned in a different interview that Mitch Hepburg was a
Speaker 2: good interview himself.
Speaker 1: I did interview him for a couple different times, but
Speaker 1: the main one was for Las Vegas Weekly about six
Speaker 1: months before it passed away. This was for the Stephen
Speaker 1: Lynch Comedy Central Live tour that they did, and he
Speaker 1: was just so expansive and personal and was talking about
Speaker 1: loving Lynn, his wife, and the relationship he wanted to
Speaker 1: have with his parents, and how he just wanted to
Speaker 1: be a free spirit, and these are all things we
Speaker 1: loved about Mitch. Anyway, he was another like you can
Speaker 1: just tell he's good birth and yeah, his story is
Speaker 1: endlessly fascinating to me. He was always my number one.
Speaker 1: We have the same birthday. I actually knew his mother
Speaker 1: fairly well before she passed away in twenty twelve. But yeah,
Speaker 1: we all know the Mitch Hedberg story is one that
Speaker 1: is so evergreen. His material can be listened to forever.
Speaker 1: It's not about you know, political jokes or sex jokes
Speaker 1: or even I think he maybe had one or two
Speaker 1: curse words in his material ever, but just the most
Speaker 1: pure mind of you know, these kind of well thought
Speaker 1: out one liners that put a whole new perspective on
Speaker 1: the world. And like you see things through Mitch's lens
Speaker 1: when you hear it its material. It's completely unlike anyone else,
Speaker 1: although he definitely has a lot of imitators these days.
Speaker 1: For sure, I could name a lot of them, but
Speaker 1: I will. No one has ever really known the full
Speaker 1: Mitch Hedward story because in a lot of ways, it
Speaker 1: ended in two thousand and five when he died, when
Speaker 1: the Internet was just coming into its own and social media,
Speaker 1: whereas you know, kind of the treasure trovee of all
Speaker 1: his material. These days, you can watch endless quips and
Speaker 1: there's so much about his life that is completely uncovered.
Speaker 1: People kind of know that he gives some comedy in Seattle,
Speaker 1: but that's about it. But there's a whole entire life
Speaker 1: before he was really well known in about ninety eight
Speaker 1: that we cover all the entire thing from first hand sources.
Speaker 1: That again, Jeff Siegel, the director, has been very adamant
Speaker 1: about tracking down everyone. It's over one hundred plus people
Speaker 1: and it's gonna be eventually. We've wanted to kind of
Speaker 1: keep it small circle and do it the right way
Speaker 1: because a lot of people, myself included, have tried to
Speaker 1: do different Mitch projects in the past, and there are
Speaker 1: reasons that they get shut down, and we kind of
Speaker 1: went around some of these reasons for this, and that's
Speaker 1: why it's actually going to finally happen. And I cannot
Speaker 1: say enough how much this will be a career highlight,
Speaker 1: and I know full well, but everything else is dath
Speaker 1: ill prem here.
Speaker 2: I hope it creates another Mitch renaissance. We had one
Speaker 2: when the Internet really took off. But he has so
Speaker 2: many signature bits, like if I run into a can
Speaker 2: of mister Pibb at the supermarket, I will take a
Speaker 2: photo of it and send it to somebody. If I'm
Speaker 2: at Hershey Park and they're selling frozen bananas, my daughter
Speaker 2: gets a ten minute routine about how I don't want
Speaker 2: a frozen banana now, but I might want a regular
Speaker 2: banana later. If I'm at a subway, she gets a
Speaker 2: duck's bits. It's all just in my brain, So it'd
Speaker 2: be great to see another wave of it. I just
Speaker 2: feel like edburg Mania has cooled off over time. It
Speaker 2: will happen to anybody who's not putting out active material,
Speaker 2: But you know, I really look forward to this.
Speaker 1: All of us on this team, there's four core members
Speaker 1: that we all knew Mitch personally, and it loved him
Speaker 1: adored him, and the idea that he does continue having
Speaker 1: this legacy is sort of part of the you know,
Speaker 1: the pitching per se. His album Mitch Altogether only went
Speaker 1: gold a couple of years ago, and we actually have
Speaker 1: footage of Jack Vaughn from Comedy Central Records presenting Mitch's father,
Speaker 1: Arnie with the gold record that would have been Mitch's.
Speaker 1: So that's kind of a team we have in the documentary.
Speaker 1: Not not to give it all away, but he does
Speaker 1: continue selling. It's true, and especially you know on the
Speaker 1: digital stations the Comedy Central Records on serious Sex and
Speaker 1: then plays his step all the time. Yeah, he's kind
Speaker 1: of perfect for those clips of chopping them up with
Speaker 1: small amounts the bite size of Mitch hedbird jokes. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and even our team kind of what you're saying, we
Speaker 1: still responded his stuff all the time. I said a
Speaker 1: picture broke an escalator to the team the other day
Speaker 1: because we just want to talk about him all the time,
Speaker 1: or like this is hey, I lived by the Coach
Speaker 1: and Horses Bar where he used to go with Doug
Speaker 1: Stanhope and they once met Quentin Tarantino, and that'll be
Speaker 1: a story. We're constantly geeking out about Mitch through this
Speaker 1: whole process. It's the best project, and again, it will
Speaker 1: never be as good as this one.
Speaker 2: I also know Jack Vaughan. He has the job now
Speaker 2: that I used to have, and I knew him when
Speaker 2: he was running Comedy Central Records, and we did the
Speaker 2: Comedy Central Radio deal together. So at some point I
Speaker 2: wanted to do a Headbird tribute on serious comedy. This
Speaker 2: was pre merger. But I'm not a ghoul, so I'm
Speaker 2: not going to call in Shawcroft and be like, hey,
Speaker 2: your husband died yesterday. Can we do something? You know,
Speaker 2: I waited maybe nine months a year. She said nobody
Speaker 2: had really reached down to her. So she comes in
Speaker 2: and we do the tribute and stand Hope's part of it.
Speaker 2: And I wound up in the back studio with her,
Speaker 2: a really small studio and smaller than the room that
Speaker 2: I'm in now, and she had Mitch's cassettes and she
Speaker 2: hadn't listened to them. I'm telling you this is a
Speaker 2: true story. I was sitting there with a woman and
Speaker 2: she hadn't heard them. I saw her emotionally react to them,
Speaker 2: and she's playing some late in life sets Mitch had
Speaker 2: done and I said to her, you've got an album here,
Speaker 2: and I don't make albums. I don't want anything out
Speaker 2: of this. I just want to hear the materials A
Speaker 2: fan and connected her with Jack and that's where that
Speaker 2: posthumous album came from. And it was just I'm so
Speaker 2: glad that that material got out there.
Speaker 1: Mitch was already under contract for an album where he died,
Speaker 1: and as far as I know, Wynn had to produce one.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I guess it was. Yeah, it wasn't going
Speaker 1: to be clear where that material was going to come from.
Speaker 1: And I remember that tribute you did too. I was
Speaker 1: listening to it crying the whole time too.
Speaker 2: It was amazing. I never got meet him. The other
Speaker 2: touchdown in my career there was because I remember the
Speaker 2: day clearly. We were doing Jim Brewers Afternoon Show and
Speaker 2: we were at the car show in New York City
Speaker 2: and Jim was crossy because the night before Jim had
Speaker 2: to cover for Mitch Heedbergh who didn't show up for reasons.
Speaker 2: We didn't know what happened, and we heard in the
Speaker 2: middle of the show. We all we're at the car
Speaker 2: show and Jim's performing two hundreds of people live and
Speaker 2: we heard this. We were all just devastated, and you know,
Speaker 2: Brewer did the radio show and then we all felt
Speaker 2: like jack holes for the way we were, you know,
Speaker 2: five minutes ago. It was like, ah, I can't believe
Speaker 2: that guy didn't show up, and they're like, oh my god.
Speaker 2: It was just I can still feel it coming back
Speaker 2: as I tell you the story.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I remember the feeling of it hitting me when
Speaker 1: I heard too. I was returning from a comedy show
Speaker 1: late at night. I was living in New York at
Speaker 1: that time and had just seen him at Carolines just
Speaker 1: before with all the when all the rock stars were there.
Speaker 1: Mike Brobiglia opened partially that weekend, and someone wrote me
Speaker 1: a message that said, by now you've heard that Mitch
Speaker 1: Hedberg gets passed away, and I have not until that message.
Speaker 1: And the message went on to say something to the
Speaker 1: effect of he liked his fans and he knew you
Speaker 1: were one of them, and that's what's important. But yeah,
Speaker 1: I had a terrible month, that entire month when he died.
Speaker 1: A lot of people I think did I don't know
Speaker 1: if you were at the Carolines memorial, but I've blocked
Speaker 1: a lot of that out because it was so emotionally devastating.
Speaker 1: I was sitting next to this publicist, Michael O'Brien on
Speaker 1: this side of me, and I had a program on
Speaker 1: this side of me, and I couldn't look up at anyone.
Speaker 1: I just kept looking down at this program of tears
Speaker 1: streaming down life face the entire time. But I do
Speaker 1: the few things I do remember is davidtel being on
Speaker 1: stage cry and that was horrifictasy. The same with Mike Robiglia.
Speaker 1: But then also towards the ending, they let in just
Speaker 1: a bunch of fans who had kind of clambered around outside,
Speaker 1: and they were telling the stories that we heard about
Speaker 1: the time he bought the college students an air conditioner,
Speaker 1: or someone needed a radiator for his car and Mitch
Speaker 1: bought them a radiator for the Those stories came out
Speaker 1: as well. And that was also the first time Jana Johnson,
Speaker 1: his longtime girlfriend of nine years prior to Lynn and
Speaker 1: the woman who's very essentially responsible for his career, and
Speaker 1: she was managing him and got them every opportunity that
Speaker 1: she could. She had an elegy that eulogy that she
Speaker 1: had written that was the first biographical account of Mitch
Speaker 1: before we all started really knowing him around ninety eight
Speaker 1: or so, and I do remember feeling like, oh, someone
Speaker 1: needs to get projects on him going immediately, because no,
Speaker 1: no one knows any of this story. But that was
Speaker 1: twenty years ago at this point. So yeah, the amount
Speaker 1: of emotion I tied into Mitch just because I did
Speaker 1: feel like I connected with so much, and the birthday
Speaker 1: thing and these are all very superficial. But I think
Speaker 1: you know what I mean and understand that people just
Speaker 1: love the Mitch for who he was in so many ways.
Speaker 1: We don't feel that personal connection really with He loved
Speaker 1: the person behind the jokes a lot. But yeah, Mitch's evergreen, eternal,
Speaker 1: his stuff works all around the world, who his will
Speaker 1: just a really unique, magical guy. And I will continue
Speaker 1: talking about him until you cut me off.
Speaker 2: I'm always wanted to think about what if to know
Speaker 2: at that stage in his career, he was starting to
Speaker 2: have to speed up the act because people in the
Speaker 2: audience were stepping on the punchlines and he was working
Speaker 2: a little more quickly. It would have been interesting to
Speaker 2: see the evolution of ten years later, twenty years later,
Speaker 2: as he's still working at that deliberate pace no, Stephen
Speaker 2: Wright still does or would there have been an evolution.
Speaker 2: We'll never know, And it's just one of those things
Speaker 2: that I think about when his name comes up.
Speaker 1: Certainly some of the timing of material was affected by
Speaker 1: drugs at that point. That's something Jack Rown has also
Speaker 1: talked about when he recorded the second album. And it's
Speaker 1: pretty obvious, you know, to some people, maybe not if
Speaker 1: you were a college student at that point, just thinking
Speaker 1: he's a funny character. I'm describing myself in Clasi's not
Speaker 1: clear the drug thing hit a lot of people by
Speaker 1: surprise if you weren't kind of you know, inner circle
Speaker 1: in industry at that time. But yeah, just the idea that, like,
Speaker 1: I mean, so many people in the documentary say he
Speaker 1: would be doing arenas, he would have so many Netflix vetals,
Speaker 1: But other people say he wouldn't like social media at all,
Speaker 1: and he probably would have left comedy. So we don't know,
Speaker 1: but I think any of those paths make a lot
Speaker 1: of sense for the artists that we knew.
Speaker 2: I could see that you seem to know Jack Vaughn
Speaker 2: pretty well. I used to accuse him of being a
Speaker 2: secret agent. First of all, his name is Jack Vaughan,
Speaker 2: He's a nice looking guy. If he ever told you
Speaker 2: a story about what he would do on vacation, it
Speaker 2: was always some exotic locale with like a great story
Speaker 2: to it, And I'm like, you're clearly on my sex.
Speaker 1: Jack Vonn, I've known since two about two weeks after
Speaker 1: I first moved to New York after I graduated college,
Speaker 1: when I went to the Virgin Records megastore in Times
Speaker 1: Square for David Tell's release of Skanks for the Memories,
Speaker 1: and I have a photo that Jack Vaughn took of
Speaker 1: me and David's hell, and he's been very nice to
Speaker 1: me ever since. I agree that Jack Vaughn is one
Speaker 1: of the nicest people in comedy. But he also spent
Speaker 1: his you know, his FA was with Peace Corps, right,
Speaker 1: and he's traveled the world his entire life. So yeah,
Speaker 1: he's a very experienced traveler in lots of ways, physically, mentally.
Speaker 1: I trust him more than anyone else in comedy. Jack,
Speaker 1: don't listen to.
Speaker 2: This, all right, So you came out here to promote
Speaker 2: a Marin documentary and I get a headberg Land, and
Speaker 2: then we did ten minutes on Jackonville. So let me
Speaker 2: ask you about Mark Maron, What was the unexpected thing
Speaker 2: that you found out that when you went into this
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, Oh.
Speaker 1: That's a good one. I think it really was that
Speaker 1: idea that he didn't see himself as that successful kind
Speaker 1: of shocking, really, and he never really liked the fact
Speaker 1: that he became better known for his podcasts than his
Speaker 1: comedy and just really kind of trying to understand what
Speaker 1: that must be like in his mind. I think was
Speaker 1: probably the most shopping partly. You're clearly, clearly one of
Speaker 1: the best it's ever existed. But again, maybe that's something
Speaker 1: all of us can learn. You know, we're all doing
Speaker 1: a little bit better than we think we are.
Speaker 2: Maybe one of the all time grades if we made
Speaker 2: a list of stand up comedians, he's going to make
Speaker 2: it sure. You're one of the all time. You're the
Speaker 2: old Ghini podcaster, so there. But again, from stand up
Speaker 2: comedy standpoint, at sixty years old, you just put out
Speaker 2: your best work, dude. We respect. Everybody loves that special.
Speaker 2: I said every year, I do, like everyone else, the
Speaker 2: top specials of the year. That's going to be number one.
Speaker 2: I can't imagine what's going to knock that out of
Speaker 2: number one.
Speaker 1: Oh, I agree, for sure. For sure, he just keeps
Speaker 1: getting better, and yet yeah, he wants to quit. So
Speaker 1: these are why we keep the reasons why we just
Speaker 1: keep watching these people like it's endlessly fascinating to follow
Speaker 1: these comedy journeys and I can't get en up with it.
Speaker 1: I just think Mark Maron was the best at this
Speaker 1: at this specific period of time to follow. I don't
Speaker 1: think there's going to be unless we have, you know,
Speaker 1: other pandemics, or well, we will certainly have other upheavals.
Speaker 1: But it was something about the context of being in
Speaker 1: that time and watching how he dealt with everything that
Speaker 1: not only we were all going through, but his own
Speaker 1: loss and grief at the same time. That just meant,
Speaker 1: you know, if he can keep going after this, we
Speaker 1: can too. And that's just comedy in a nutshell.
Speaker 2: So is the thesis here not to be modeling that
Speaker 2: the tragic event just pushed him to the next level
Speaker 2: or helped him focus. It seems to clearly be a
Speaker 2: focal point and his strongest work has come after that.
Speaker 2: So is that a moment?
Speaker 1: I would say that it was something thrust upon him
Speaker 1: and he, yeah, dealt with it as he could, and
Speaker 1: we just wanted to make sure we were there to
Speaker 1: capture it. Obviously, it's the most dramatic thing that's ever
Speaker 1: happened to him, but you know, by far we can
Speaker 1: see that very clearly what he manages to keep going
Speaker 1: and like you said, create the best material he's ever done.
Speaker 1: And how does comedy actually allow us to do that,
Speaker 1: especially through his eyes? Yeah, I'm not sure I'm actually
Speaker 1: answering the question, but there was just something about that
Speaker 1: moment in that time and watching him go through all
Speaker 1: this and kind of start to come out the other
Speaker 1: side through humor that I think is again universal timeless,
Speaker 1: can't get enough of it. I will watch comedians create
Speaker 1: material on the challenging times forever. Yeah, and he's just
Speaker 1: kind of the best. So that's why it made you know,
Speaker 1: it was very difficult, but I'm glad we did it
Speaker 1: for sure. For sure.
Speaker 2: Do you imagine fans will come away laughing or we'll
Speaker 2: be crying? Will we get into understanding of Mark Bhern
Speaker 2: all of that?
Speaker 1: All the above? For sure? Again, like I said, this
Speaker 1: is watching him make new material in the wake of
Speaker 1: this tragedy. So you see him experimenting the process, putting
Speaker 1: it together for better and for worse, and there's definitely
Speaker 1: a lot of crime as well. For sure. I have
Speaker 1: not gotten out of a screening yet without people crying.
Speaker 1: So yeah, the full emotional spectrum. And it even works
Speaker 1: if you're not a fan of Mark Marin, because again
Speaker 1: we're you know, be latering the point by now. But
Speaker 1: this is something that happens to everyone. Here's how this
Speaker 1: guy dealt with it.
Speaker 2: And that's all I have for you. See, here's what happened.
Speaker 2: When we were recording. The upload stalled at ninety six percent,
Speaker 2: so I don't have the rest of the conversation, which
Speaker 2: kind of sucks. But I asked her about it being
Speaker 2: in theaters, and you know, can I just hide out
Speaker 2: in the basement of crying. She's like, nope, it's in theaters.
Speaker 2: She did suggest that possible, perhaps maybe there might be
Speaker 2: another way to see this down the road, but this
Speaker 2: week it's in theaters and it sounds fantastic. So at
Speaker 2: the end, you know, like we do, I go, hey,
Speaker 2: thanks for coming on. She said nice things to me.
Speaker 2: I said nice things back, but I don't have any
Speaker 2: of that, so just imagine how that went. I want
Speaker 2: something like this, Hey, Julie, appreciate your time, really looking
Speaker 2: forward to this. Thanks for coming on today, and then
Speaker 2: she said something nice in my general direction, and then
Speaker 2: we said bye, and then there was some after stuff
Speaker 2: after the recording about you know, hey, I hope you'll
Speaker 2: come back with a Mitch thing and we said all that,
Speaker 2: but you know, you wouldn't have heard that anyway, because
Speaker 2: I wouldn't have included that in the podcast. So you're
Speaker 2: actually getting more content that you would have. I'm punchy today.
Speaker 2: All right, that is your bonus episode back in the
Speaker 2: morning with a normal episode comedy. People. Can we keep
Speaker 2: this thing calm. This has just been out of control lately.
Speaker 2: Let's keep it simple. So Johnny Mack and watch football
Speaker 2: all day, watch the Jets lose, and then we'll come
Speaker 2: back in the morning with a normal episode of daily Comedys.
Speaker 2: Appreciate you.