WEBVTT 1 00:00:02.720 --> 00:00:10.119 A lot of funds of edom national self interest and 2 00:00:10.320 --> 00:00:11.519 an individual loss. 3 00:00:14.439 --> 00:00:21.679 This is the show, all right, everybody, welcome to your 4 00:00:21.719 --> 00:00:25.000 one book show on this Monday evening. 5 00:00:25.239 --> 00:00:26.280 It's eight pm here. 6 00:00:26.160 --> 00:00:29.719 On the East Coast. Hope everybody had a a good Monday. 7 00:00:30.519 --> 00:00:34.039 Hopefully you did not look at your portfolios. Uh, and 8 00:00:35.000 --> 00:00:37.799 it was a pretty brutal out there, all right. I'm 9 00:00:37.880 --> 00:00:40.880 I'm really happy to have with me today Uncle Gate, 10 00:00:41.159 --> 00:00:44.799 who I think everybody knows but is the chief philosophy 11 00:00:44.840 --> 00:00:49.759 officer at the Iron Rand Institute and super busy. 12 00:00:49.840 --> 00:00:52.119 So it's it's a it's a real treat to have 13 00:00:52.200 --> 00:00:52.560 him on. 14 00:00:53.439 --> 00:00:53.799 Uh. 15 00:00:53.840 --> 00:00:57.479 So welcome Uncle, Hey, you're good to be here. 16 00:00:58.759 --> 00:01:04.040 So I thought we'd with with your assessment of of 17 00:01:04.159 --> 00:01:08.719 kind of where we are with with Trump and kind 18 00:01:08.719 --> 00:01:11.439 of how bad has it been relative to your expectations. 19 00:01:11.599 --> 00:01:13.840 I know, I know we both were pretty negative or 20 00:01:13.920 --> 00:01:17.719 very negative on on on this on Trump generally, but 21 00:01:18.280 --> 00:01:20.239 I think I was particularly this term. I thought it 22 00:01:20.280 --> 00:01:23.079 would be much worse than the previous one and then 23 00:01:23.640 --> 00:01:27.599 but he's exceeded my He's worse than I even thought 24 00:01:27.599 --> 00:01:31.319 he would be. And I'm wondering how how you how 25 00:01:31.400 --> 00:01:32.680 you feel about it? And then I'd like to talk 26 00:01:32.719 --> 00:01:34.400 about where you think we're going from here. 27 00:01:37.239 --> 00:01:42.599 It's about what I expected. I think it's in some 28 00:01:42.760 --> 00:01:47.200 ways the immigration thing is worse than I thought it 29 00:01:47.239 --> 00:01:53.359 would be, in the sense of how much it seems 30 00:01:53.400 --> 00:02:00.400 they want to project power and the So I actually 31 00:02:00.400 --> 00:02:04.519 don't even think Trump's that interested in deporting people, but 32 00:02:04.959 --> 00:02:08.080 it is. He knows that it plays to the base, 33 00:02:08.360 --> 00:02:13.120 and he's willing to play that up. But the people 34 00:02:13.280 --> 00:02:17.879 he's appointed, I think, are much more. They want to 35 00:02:17.960 --> 00:02:21.039 just wield the power. They want to kick people out 36 00:02:21.080 --> 00:02:23.879 to show that they have the power to kick people out. 37 00:02:23.960 --> 00:02:26.280 I even think they want to do it a little bit, 38 00:02:27.719 --> 00:02:31.599 pushing the boundaries of the law or even flouting the law. 39 00:02:31.599 --> 00:02:35.240 They want to show that they can do that. So 40 00:02:35.479 --> 00:02:39.599 I have a pretty negative assessment of what's happening with 41 00:02:39.639 --> 00:02:43.319 the immigration and part of just what's happening, but part 42 00:02:43.639 --> 00:02:50.080 of it's he's surrounded himself in comparison to the first administration, 43 00:02:50.560 --> 00:02:55.719 I think, with more power lusters than the and that's bad, 44 00:02:56.240 --> 00:02:58.039 but it's part of I mean, it's part of what 45 00:02:58.280 --> 00:03:00.199 was so bad about him that he pushes out the 46 00:03:00.240 --> 00:03:03.960 better people in the Republican Party and you get the 47 00:03:04.000 --> 00:03:10.240 worse people who want who much more want to be there. 48 00:03:10.280 --> 00:03:14.000 I think you still had in the first administration. I 49 00:03:14.039 --> 00:03:15.560 don't know when you think about this, but there were 50 00:03:15.560 --> 00:03:20.360 people who thought like they have some responsibility to keep 51 00:03:20.400 --> 00:03:24.000 this guy in check. And it's kind of he's a 52 00:03:24.319 --> 00:03:27.960 child and you've got to humor him a bit. But 53 00:03:28.159 --> 00:03:29.840 there are a lot of stories that I think there 54 00:03:29.879 --> 00:03:33.639 were various individuals who thought they had to do that, 55 00:03:33.879 --> 00:03:37.360 and we're trying to do that, however successfully and whether 56 00:03:37.400 --> 00:03:40.360 it's fully sincerely or there's a bit they liked the 57 00:03:40.400 --> 00:03:43.240 limelight and power as well, but there was much more 58 00:03:43.520 --> 00:03:44.360 that I. 59 00:03:44.280 --> 00:03:44.520 Think that. 60 00:03:46.319 --> 00:03:46.680 Definitely. 61 00:03:46.719 --> 00:03:48.680 I mean, I know John Bolton a little bit. I 62 00:03:49.080 --> 00:03:52.039 met him before he took the position with Trump, and 63 00:03:52.080 --> 00:03:55.479 he was quite negative about Trump. But he was like, yeah, 64 00:03:55.520 --> 00:03:57.199 but if he offered me something, I would do it 65 00:03:57.719 --> 00:04:00.479 because it would be an opportunity and and I could 66 00:04:00.520 --> 00:04:03.240 mitigate some the bad I don't think he did. I 67 00:04:03.800 --> 00:04:10.039 think his book later on really reflected that. But yeah, 68 00:04:10.360 --> 00:04:13.680 it's funny because I was in where was I It 69 00:04:13.800 --> 00:04:17.720 was somewhere maybe I was in London, and Joel Bolton 70 00:04:17.800 --> 00:04:22.319 walked into the walked into the the club I was 71 00:04:22.360 --> 00:04:26.240 at I was one of these British airways, a club thing, 72 00:04:26.399 --> 00:04:29.079 and sat not far from me, and I don't think 73 00:04:29.120 --> 00:04:30.920 you remembered who I was, but I went up and 74 00:04:30.959 --> 00:04:34.040 said I just went up and said, you know, just 75 00:04:34.160 --> 00:04:35.879 thank you for the work you're doing. I know how 76 00:04:35.920 --> 00:04:38.639 much you know, how much negativity is around it, And 77 00:04:38.680 --> 00:04:41.639 he seemed to appreciate that. So I thought, given what's 78 00:04:41.680 --> 00:04:44.360 going on in the world, you know, it's good to 79 00:04:44.399 --> 00:04:48.319 boost the better people. But yeah, I definitely think that's 80 00:04:48.360 --> 00:04:50.240 the case. In the first admission. The number of people 81 00:04:50.279 --> 00:04:53.199 the Easy Economics team I think was there with the idea, 82 00:04:53.240 --> 00:04:56.240 and there was that guy who published that up ed 83 00:04:56.319 --> 00:04:59.439 the New York Times about with the adults in the room, 84 00:04:59.480 --> 00:05:02.279 and we're tried keep keep saying, there are no adults 85 00:05:02.279 --> 00:05:08.720 in the room this time. Yeah, they complete the complete accolades. 86 00:05:09.160 --> 00:05:11.240 What do you think about I mean, one of the 87 00:05:11.279 --> 00:05:14.759 things that holifies me is, yeah, I think the people 88 00:05:14.759 --> 00:05:17.600 he's appointed on the immigration issue really really bad. But 89 00:05:17.680 --> 00:05:22.439 part of what holifies me is that the the the 90 00:05:22.480 --> 00:05:26.759 people on the ground, the people actually uh you know, 91 00:05:26.879 --> 00:05:32.439 applying these this to the immigrants. There seems to be 92 00:05:32.480 --> 00:05:35.720 a significant number of them that are just cool and 93 00:05:35.839 --> 00:05:42.519 nasty and you know, really enjoying the little power lusters, 94 00:05:42.600 --> 00:05:47.319 really enjoying inflicting this on people. And that's scary. 95 00:05:48.040 --> 00:05:51.240 Yeah, I'm my view has been for a long time, 96 00:05:51.720 --> 00:05:55.120 and it's partly just through the experience with the US government. 97 00:05:55.279 --> 00:05:58.720 I think the immigration officials that sort of that, like 98 00:05:58.800 --> 00:06:04.079 the average person who's manning these booths or but who 99 00:06:04.120 --> 00:06:09.079 would join ice there, it attracts really bad people. I 100 00:06:09.079 --> 00:06:11.600 don't think every person is bad. And some people think 101 00:06:11.639 --> 00:06:14.360 of it as yeah, I'm here try to find people 102 00:06:14.399 --> 00:06:18.279 carrying drugs and stop the gangs from coming in. But 103 00:06:18.639 --> 00:06:24.600 too many people It's just this is an opportunity to 104 00:06:24.720 --> 00:06:29.319 wield power over people, and this is like way predates Trump. 105 00:06:29.839 --> 00:06:32.439 I've told this story to some people before I made 106 00:06:32.480 --> 00:06:36.040 it that, like, I'm not allowed to talk. My wife 107 00:06:36.120 --> 00:06:39.279 does not allow me to talk to Immigration Border Control 108 00:06:39.480 --> 00:06:45.279 anymore because I too many of them. They just want 109 00:06:45.399 --> 00:06:50.759 power the when I so, I'm a pretty patient person. 110 00:06:50.800 --> 00:06:54.360 But the we have a green card that says keep 111 00:06:54.399 --> 00:06:57.920 your card in its sleeve, and I had to You 112 00:06:58.040 --> 00:07:01.839 used to before it's all automated. You used to have 113 00:07:01.879 --> 00:07:04.560 to give it to the person, and it was why 114 00:07:04.680 --> 00:07:06.360 is your card in the sleeve? You have to take 115 00:07:06.399 --> 00:07:09.399 your car up. So next time I take it out, 116 00:07:09.680 --> 00:07:11.519 why is your card out of the sleeve. It's supposed 117 00:07:11.519 --> 00:07:14.000 to be in the sleeve. And the third time this happened, 118 00:07:14.160 --> 00:07:17.759 I just and the idea that it's a job to 119 00:07:17.879 --> 00:07:21.240 stop people from working, Like my job is to stop 120 00:07:21.279 --> 00:07:23.639 people from working, to try to figure out if they're 121 00:07:23.680 --> 00:07:25.439 trying to work in the US and if they are, 122 00:07:25.480 --> 00:07:28.399 to go after him, and like, how can I attract 123 00:07:28.439 --> 00:07:31.839 somebody who thinks, yeah, that's a productive activity stop other 124 00:07:31.879 --> 00:07:36.240 people from working. So it attracts the kind of person who, yeah, 125 00:07:36.399 --> 00:07:38.000 like I like to tell people what to do, and 126 00:07:38.040 --> 00:07:40.920 I like to have them this power over me. And 127 00:07:40.959 --> 00:07:44.439 the other thing for the immigrant, which you're seeing now 128 00:07:45.160 --> 00:07:47.920 that it's it's a kind of no man's land where 129 00:07:47.959 --> 00:07:50.319 you don't have any recourse. You can't call a lawyer, 130 00:07:50.399 --> 00:07:53.560 you can't use your phone. I've been once pulled out 131 00:07:53.639 --> 00:07:57.360 of the line, and it is scary because they have 132 00:07:57.399 --> 00:08:00.120 a ton of power and you have no recour or 133 00:08:00.199 --> 00:08:02.879 you can't get like you can't go back to your country, 134 00:08:03.079 --> 00:08:05.360 you can't go into the US, you can't call a lawyer, 135 00:08:05.399 --> 00:08:08.279 you can't use your phone and now they're seizing all 136 00:08:08.279 --> 00:08:15.079 the electronics. Often it's yeah, so it in comparison like 137 00:08:15.120 --> 00:08:17.319 to say, to be a government teacher, which that's a 138 00:08:17.399 --> 00:08:20.160 legitimate job. It shouldn't be run by the government. There's 139 00:08:20.240 --> 00:08:23.000 so much here that's not legitimate at all, and it 140 00:08:23.040 --> 00:08:26.240 has to attract people who want to wheeld their legitimate power. 141 00:08:26.839 --> 00:08:30.560 Yeah. And you know this idea of sending sending people 142 00:08:30.600 --> 00:08:35.320 to a jail in in a Salvador, and you know, 143 00:08:35.360 --> 00:08:38.159 they're rounding people up and they don't get quite the 144 00:08:38.200 --> 00:08:40.279 people they want, so they just round people up because 145 00:08:40.320 --> 00:08:41.559 they just need to fill the numbers. 146 00:08:42.480 --> 00:08:42.600 Uh. 147 00:08:43.360 --> 00:08:46.440 It's really scary that they are Americans that are gleefully 148 00:08:46.559 --> 00:08:48.919 doing this kind of work. Yeah. 149 00:08:48.960 --> 00:08:53.919 And when you read about why they're being shipped to Louisiana, 150 00:08:54.039 --> 00:08:58.919 it seems like it's basically two things. One, it's they 151 00:08:58.919 --> 00:09:03.000 think they'll get friends or judges when they can, but 152 00:09:03.200 --> 00:09:07.159 it's also deliberately to keep them away from lawyers. I 153 00:09:07.159 --> 00:09:10.039 was watching one story. It's not just in Louisiana, it's 154 00:09:10.039 --> 00:09:14.240 like upstate Louisiana. It's one hundred miles or something from 155 00:09:14.279 --> 00:09:15.759 it that a lawyer has to drive. They see it 156 00:09:15.799 --> 00:09:18.039 client like one hundred miles and has to drive back, 157 00:09:18.240 --> 00:09:21.879 and they're doing it deliberately to make it really hard 158 00:09:21.879 --> 00:09:26.200 for them to have representation, and that that if you're 159 00:09:26.759 --> 00:09:34.200 the government can do this to pretty powerless people, it should. 160 00:09:34.480 --> 00:09:37.879 Like I was talking to someone this week about this, 161 00:09:39.159 --> 00:09:43.399 that our government is supposed to function by permission. It's 162 00:09:43.440 --> 00:09:46.440 not the one wielding authority doing whatever it wants. And 163 00:09:46.679 --> 00:09:49.679 even if you don't care about immigration, even if you 164 00:09:49.720 --> 00:09:51.320 think which I do think like some of these people 165 00:09:51.360 --> 00:09:54.080 are gang members, not all, and I have no confidence 166 00:09:54.440 --> 00:09:56.919 they have any idea what they're doing in trying. I mean, 167 00:09:56.919 --> 00:10:00.480 if you're using tattoos as your primary form of identitification, 168 00:10:01.120 --> 00:10:03.639 then it is you're gonna catch all kinds of people 169 00:10:03.679 --> 00:10:08.360 who don't belong. But there are some. But the idea 170 00:10:08.360 --> 00:10:11.799 that like the government can wield this kind of unchecked power, 171 00:10:12.759 --> 00:10:16.279 should any American who thinks, yeah, we're supposed to have 172 00:10:16.320 --> 00:10:18.960 a government of laws and it's supposed to function by permission. 173 00:10:19.240 --> 00:10:22.399 Not it gives us orders. We give it orders. It 174 00:10:22.759 --> 00:10:25.000 can't function, it can't keep people away from layers, and 175 00:10:25.399 --> 00:10:26.759 it can't function in this way. 176 00:10:27.679 --> 00:10:31.200 What's the system of him going after the University's Columbia 177 00:10:31.240 --> 00:10:36.559 and now and now Harvard. 178 00:10:37.919 --> 00:10:41.320 There's a sliver of legitimacy to it, I think, but 179 00:10:41.799 --> 00:10:48.960 it's uh, yeah, it's not done in a legitimate way. 180 00:10:49.840 --> 00:10:56.360 The the the guys that it's under anti semitism one 181 00:10:56.440 --> 00:10:58.679 that that that's what we're fighting is we have to 182 00:10:58.759 --> 00:11:02.799 make them toe the line. I don't think that's what's 183 00:11:02.840 --> 00:11:05.120 actually going There's a kind of punishment involved, which is 184 00:11:05.399 --> 00:11:08.240 which is like, that's why it's bad. There's a punishment. 185 00:11:08.320 --> 00:11:12.600 These are the liberal elites who opposed us so and 186 00:11:12.639 --> 00:11:17.600 now we're going to go after them, if for the 187 00:11:17.679 --> 00:11:22.440 anti semitism, if they deported or to took away the 188 00:11:22.759 --> 00:11:27.720 visas approvals and then deported some Jewish people and Jewish 189 00:11:27.799 --> 00:11:31.080 looking people who were involved in the protest on the 190 00:11:31.559 --> 00:11:35.200 on the sort of pro Palestinian pro Hamas side, if 191 00:11:35.200 --> 00:11:39.120 they said we're getting rid of them, I'd have more 192 00:11:39.159 --> 00:11:41.960 sympathy to maybe like what they what they really want 193 00:11:42.000 --> 00:11:44.240 to go after is the people who are pro Hamas. 194 00:11:44.519 --> 00:11:48.600 But it's too much again that it is these the 195 00:11:48.799 --> 00:11:52.000 people they're going after will play in the media, that is, 196 00:11:52.320 --> 00:11:55.600 it will be there are people from Turkey or whatever, 197 00:11:55.759 --> 00:11:59.879 and they look like they could be the terrorist or 198 00:12:00.120 --> 00:12:02.720 like what sort of the average American could think? Yeah, 199 00:12:02.919 --> 00:12:05.440 versus a Jewish student who was involved in the protest 200 00:12:05.639 --> 00:12:08.519 help organizing these protests in front, They wouldn't. I don't 201 00:12:08.519 --> 00:12:11.000 think they would dare. The way they would put it 202 00:12:11.080 --> 00:12:13.440 is the optics will be so bad. That's one of 203 00:12:13.519 --> 00:12:17.559 the revealing in the in the uh what is it? 204 00:12:17.600 --> 00:12:23.639 The Defense secretaries they I don't know if you read 205 00:12:23.679 --> 00:12:29.000 the whole the all the the messages, but they were 206 00:12:29.120 --> 00:12:32.159 very concerned about how the optics of this will play. Yes, 207 00:12:32.279 --> 00:12:35.000 and it's got to be in spades for what's happening 208 00:12:35.039 --> 00:12:38.360 with the universities, So I could so I can't take 209 00:12:38.440 --> 00:12:42.679 seriously that what they're actually going after pro hamas people. 210 00:12:45.320 --> 00:12:50.360 And then and then yeah, and then they're trying to 211 00:12:50.360 --> 00:12:55.200 get significant control over the universities and the programs and 212 00:12:55.240 --> 00:12:59.600 so on that. Yeah, I can't. I don't know what 213 00:12:59.639 --> 00:13:02.799 you think. I can't see it as it's properly motivated. 214 00:13:03.080 --> 00:13:08.360 No, I don't think it's properly motivated. Yeah, it's again, 215 00:13:08.840 --> 00:13:12.759 but it's it's it's getting it's it's throwing beef to 216 00:13:12.840 --> 00:13:18.360 their MAGA supporters, who uh, and it's and it's a 217 00:13:19.320 --> 00:13:22.960 it's an attempt, I think, and Kusu Rufo said wrote 218 00:13:23.000 --> 00:13:26.480 something about, you know, we're going to use the levels 219 00:13:26.480 --> 00:13:30.480 of power to bring our ideas and everything to the forefront. 220 00:13:30.519 --> 00:13:32.720 We want to take I mean, if he had his way, 221 00:13:32.919 --> 00:13:35.039 they would take over the universities. They can't because they 222 00:13:35.519 --> 00:13:38.720 don't have the people to replace the existing professors, so 223 00:13:38.759 --> 00:13:40.879 all they can do is really harass the universities at 224 00:13:40.879 --> 00:13:41.720 this point. 225 00:13:42.799 --> 00:13:48.919 Yeah, yeah, that's the impression I have. The most plausible one, 226 00:13:49.080 --> 00:13:54.159 I think was Columbia. That there were real problems in 227 00:13:54.200 --> 00:13:58.279 what Columbia was doing. But from what I know about 228 00:13:58.279 --> 00:14:00.679 Harvard and a little bit I know some people who 229 00:14:00.720 --> 00:14:04.159 are working on this kind of thing, it's Harvard is 230 00:14:04.240 --> 00:14:07.519 made or at least tried to make some real changes 231 00:14:07.600 --> 00:14:09.559 about how they're running things and how it's going on. 232 00:14:09.759 --> 00:14:13.279 So the idea that they're not they're sort of uncooperative 233 00:14:13.840 --> 00:14:16.799 is not true as well. It's plausible to me. So 234 00:14:16.879 --> 00:14:20.120 the stories that came out that this was a draft 235 00:14:20.240 --> 00:14:23.600 that was sent by accident to Harvard, I believe that 236 00:14:23.759 --> 00:14:27.279 again that kind so I don't have so the kind 237 00:14:27.279 --> 00:14:31.720 of view that this is some there are masterminds behind 238 00:14:31.759 --> 00:14:34.639 all of this, I don't have that view. I do 239 00:14:34.679 --> 00:14:37.720 think there are people from heritage and so on who 240 00:14:37.759 --> 00:14:41.360 are involved in really trying to strategize what to do, 241 00:14:41.399 --> 00:14:43.879 but I don't think they're masterminds either. So I think 242 00:14:43.879 --> 00:14:48.960 there's a lot of screw ups. The going after the 243 00:14:49.039 --> 00:14:54.039 DEI things seems to be there's a fair amount of 244 00:14:54.159 --> 00:14:58.039 we're just doing searches and if DEI shows up. There's 245 00:14:58.080 --> 00:15:01.480 been people in some so I'm in the greater like 246 00:15:01.679 --> 00:15:07.320 Washington area of the d m V who have said, HM, 247 00:15:07.720 --> 00:15:10.519 they were government employees who were forced to go to 248 00:15:10.559 --> 00:15:13.320 the who didn't want were forced to go to d 249 00:15:13.480 --> 00:15:16.559 I training and because they're on the list of the training, 250 00:15:16.559 --> 00:15:19.799 they got fired. They didn't And but I believe, like 251 00:15:19.840 --> 00:15:22.039 how because there's no way they can go with the 252 00:15:22.120 --> 00:15:24.600 speed and know what they're doing, So they have to 253 00:15:24.639 --> 00:15:27.840 have all kinds of shortcuts and they're gonna catch including 254 00:15:27.879 --> 00:15:30.240 people who are against the Yah, you're gonna kick out. 255 00:15:31.519 --> 00:15:33.279 And they don't care. I mean, that's the other thing 256 00:15:33.279 --> 00:15:35.279 they don't care about screwing up, That is they don't 257 00:15:35.279 --> 00:15:39.559 care if innocent people get caught up. It really doesn't 258 00:15:39.559 --> 00:15:42.600 bother them. So so, so what do you think this 259 00:15:42.600 --> 00:15:45.720 this is heading I mean, I mean, it's Trump going 260 00:15:45.799 --> 00:15:48.799 to become a dictator? Is is this heading towards authoritarianism 261 00:15:49.279 --> 00:15:52.320 in the in the short run? I mean, how is 262 00:15:52.320 --> 00:15:54.759 there going to be a constitutional you think crisis where 263 00:15:55.200 --> 00:16:00.200 the Supreme Court says something and he just ignores them. 264 00:16:00.559 --> 00:16:04.120 I'd be surprised if it's would be that black and white. 265 00:16:04.840 --> 00:16:10.519 There will be the continuous pushing of the boundaries. So 266 00:16:10.759 --> 00:16:13.039 of what happened with the immigrant at least what seems 267 00:16:13.080 --> 00:16:17.200 toff happened with the immigration of a flight is mid 268 00:16:17.240 --> 00:16:21.200 air and the judge rules something and they then they say, well, no, 269 00:16:21.240 --> 00:16:24.639 it's outside of airspace, so we can't call it back, 270 00:16:25.519 --> 00:16:28.039 so we're not defying the order, but the order doesn't 271 00:16:28.039 --> 00:16:30.559 apply anymore. I think there will be a lot of 272 00:16:30.639 --> 00:16:35.279 things like that, including that you've got to return this 273 00:16:35.360 --> 00:16:38.440 person who's sent to Al Salvador and it's sort of 274 00:16:38.519 --> 00:16:41.600 but what was the Supreme Court? You have to facilitate 275 00:16:41.679 --> 00:16:46.879 their return, and then it's, oh, well, the dictator inl 276 00:16:46.960 --> 00:16:48.960 Salvador doesn't want to return it, so what are we 277 00:16:49.000 --> 00:16:52.080 going to do? Like if it was Zelenski, you would 278 00:16:52.080 --> 00:16:55.559 berat him in the office, but here it's oh, it's 279 00:16:55.600 --> 00:16:57.600 convenient if he says he doesn't want to return to 280 00:16:57.639 --> 00:16:59.840 this person, so we'll say, like, what can we do. 281 00:17:00.080 --> 00:17:01.879 I think it'll be a lot there. I mean, there 282 00:17:01.879 --> 00:17:05.400 already is that, and there'll be that continuously. I'd be 283 00:17:05.480 --> 00:17:11.279 surprised if it's openly defiant that it's ah, they passed, 284 00:17:11.279 --> 00:17:14.400 there's oh no, we're just not following that versus oh yeah, 285 00:17:14.559 --> 00:17:18.680 we're trying to facilitate it, but we can't. That's what 286 00:17:18.759 --> 00:17:23.279 I expect. So that is a kind of crisis, but 287 00:17:23.319 --> 00:17:27.319 it's much more a crisis of thinking of it as 288 00:17:27.519 --> 00:17:37.000 the whole operation of government. So here if we had 289 00:17:37.680 --> 00:17:41.799 not just boot liquors, it would be there would be 290 00:17:41.880 --> 00:17:45.119 pushback in Trump's own party against him. That there was 291 00:17:45.200 --> 00:17:49.839 a little bit in regard to Terras, but pathetically little 292 00:17:49.920 --> 00:17:53.319 given out of it, and the destructive to terrorists are 293 00:17:53.880 --> 00:17:58.519 That's the to me, the much the why we're more 294 00:17:58.559 --> 00:18:03.319 than drifting towards authority. It's much more that Congress will 295 00:18:03.319 --> 00:18:05.759 go along with everything. That then that it's going to 296 00:18:05.839 --> 00:18:10.079 be the court versus the executive. There's that tension for sure, 297 00:18:10.200 --> 00:18:11.640 And as I said, they're going to try to push 298 00:18:12.000 --> 00:18:17.400 the envelope and and try to sort of skirt the 299 00:18:17.480 --> 00:18:19.960 meaning in the letter of the law and say, oh no, 300 00:18:20.039 --> 00:18:21.599 but the letter of the law, we can't do this. 301 00:18:22.039 --> 00:18:25.920 But for Congress it's and this has been long standing. 302 00:18:26.400 --> 00:18:33.559 It's Trump wants people who will just do what he says. 303 00:18:31.920 --> 00:18:34.559 And if you saw. 304 00:18:34.359 --> 00:18:38.920 The senator him Alaska saying, she basically said, yeah, we're 305 00:18:38.960 --> 00:18:41.359 fraid of him. We're petrified of him. We won't we're 306 00:18:41.400 --> 00:18:44.279 not speaking up, she said, me and my colleagues. And 307 00:18:44.319 --> 00:18:46.119 she's one of the ones that have voted against him 308 00:18:46.119 --> 00:18:48.839 a few times, so she's one of the more courageous. 309 00:18:48.839 --> 00:18:53.720 And yet she says nobody else, nobody else, Uh, we'll 310 00:18:53.759 --> 00:18:56.960 do it. People are complaining about your audio. Do you 311 00:18:56.960 --> 00:18:59.359 have a mike? Is it my connection? 312 00:19:00.440 --> 00:19:03.559 Let me let me try some once in a while. 313 00:19:03.640 --> 00:19:10.279 The it resets the sound, so let me just check. Mum. 314 00:19:18.799 --> 00:19:19.960 It seems like it's peaking. 315 00:19:22.240 --> 00:19:24.000 Oh, it seems like it's so I need to lower 316 00:19:24.039 --> 00:19:44.039 the gain. Okay, So it was set to what it 317 00:19:44.119 --> 00:19:54.759 normally is set to. Okay, how's that? Does that sound 318 00:19:54.799 --> 00:19:55.440 any different to you? 319 00:19:56.599 --> 00:19:59.559 I think it's a little better. Yeah, let's see how it. 320 00:19:59.680 --> 00:20:00.400 Let's I guess. 321 00:20:01.000 --> 00:20:03.279 Okay, I don't know what's going on. This is what 322 00:20:03.400 --> 00:20:04.319 I normally use. 323 00:20:05.759 --> 00:20:11.119 So so yeah, so Congress is just going to go 324 00:20:11.160 --> 00:20:14.240 along with the president. The court will probably fight back. 325 00:20:14.359 --> 00:20:17.480 You don't think he's going to actually tell the quote. No, 326 00:20:17.559 --> 00:20:21.559 I'm not going to do what you tell me, although 327 00:20:21.599 --> 00:20:24.400 Magas seems to be calling for that A lot is 328 00:20:24.440 --> 00:20:27.640 a lot of in social media, in particular people writing 329 00:20:27.839 --> 00:20:29.319 ignore the courts, ignore the quotes. 330 00:20:31.480 --> 00:20:33.599 So where do you think this goes? 331 00:20:33.680 --> 00:20:36.839 I mean, is this just setting up the next administration 332 00:20:37.000 --> 00:20:41.759 and the future administrations for even more authoritarianism. Is it 333 00:20:41.799 --> 00:20:46.960 going to be gradual and over slowly developing. 334 00:20:51.119 --> 00:20:55.920 That's I think the likely outcome, and I'll say something 335 00:20:55.960 --> 00:20:59.519 about that. But on the other hand, if we get 336 00:21:00.079 --> 00:21:03.000 old crisis, so if we get a financial crisis from 337 00:21:03.039 --> 00:21:10.359 the tariffs, the claim for emergency powers I think will come, 338 00:21:10.559 --> 00:21:13.839 will come and again. So my view of Trump is 339 00:21:13.880 --> 00:21:18.079 he's not power hungry, so he's too lazy. I really 340 00:21:18.119 --> 00:21:21.240 think that he's too lazy to be power hungry. He's 341 00:21:21.359 --> 00:21:25.519 prestige hungry. He likes to be the spot like and 342 00:21:25.559 --> 00:21:29.200 he likes the appearance of being tough, but he doesn't 343 00:21:29.279 --> 00:21:32.440 actually want to be tough. It's too much work. The 344 00:21:32.480 --> 00:21:36.119 most revealing thing for me in this second term, but 345 00:21:36.160 --> 00:21:38.359 it fits completely what he was I think in the 346 00:21:38.400 --> 00:21:43.240 first administration was with the list of pardons, there was 347 00:21:43.279 --> 00:21:45.160 a sort of I don't know if it was a 348 00:21:45.279 --> 00:21:49.200 challenging or friendly reporter, but it was. He was sort 349 00:21:49.240 --> 00:21:53.559 of Trump, you pardoned this guy and he's not like 350 00:21:53.680 --> 00:21:57.200 his records, not just January sixth, And why did you parton? 351 00:21:57.279 --> 00:22:01.119 And now he was Trump that wouldn't really, I wouldn't 352 00:22:01.160 --> 00:22:02.960 parton somebody like that. I'll have to look into it. 353 00:22:03.000 --> 00:22:04.680 And the guy pre but you did pardon, and you 354 00:22:04.680 --> 00:22:06.400 gave him by and you gave him a full Parton's 355 00:22:06.759 --> 00:22:10.559 and and then Trump said, I don't have time to 356 00:22:10.640 --> 00:22:12.920 read a thousand things of what, So he has no 357 00:22:12.960 --> 00:22:14.799 idea who he parted. And I really believe that, I mean, 358 00:22:14.839 --> 00:22:17.279 I believe all the stories that he will only read 359 00:22:17.319 --> 00:22:19.160 the first page and you've got to put the points 360 00:22:19.200 --> 00:22:21.880 the first three bullets. So a list of a thousand 361 00:22:21.920 --> 00:22:24.119 or whatever people to partner, there's no way he looked 362 00:22:24.160 --> 00:22:27.720 at it. And he accuses Biden of this, but I 363 00:22:27.720 --> 00:22:30.119 think partly he accuses Biden because he does exactly the 364 00:22:30.119 --> 00:22:32.359 same and he knows like he thinks he can get 365 00:22:32.400 --> 00:22:35.680 Biden and people can't get him on this because he'll 366 00:22:35.720 --> 00:22:40.000 just admit, yeah, who can read that much? And somebody 367 00:22:40.079 --> 00:22:43.680 power hungry would It's not that that's not Putin. For instance, 368 00:22:44.640 --> 00:22:46.960 Putin would know some of the details and would be 369 00:22:47.000 --> 00:22:50.599 going after someone. So I don't think he's power hungry, 370 00:22:51.039 --> 00:22:55.599 and that's relevant. I think for what is happening. If 371 00:22:56.119 --> 00:23:00.599 there's some emergencies, he'll be pushed to you need to 372 00:23:00.640 --> 00:23:03.119 declare an emergency and get emergency power, and then they help. 373 00:23:03.160 --> 00:23:06.319 People around him will want to wield that emergency power. 374 00:23:06.400 --> 00:23:09.640 So I think the more likely thing is that it's 375 00:23:09.799 --> 00:23:13.640 just continuing down the road to the administration. But if 376 00:23:13.640 --> 00:23:17.039 we got a financial crisis, a crisis I mean partly 377 00:23:17.079 --> 00:23:20.160 as a result of Trump's policies, then I could see 378 00:23:20.200 --> 00:23:23.519 it getting worse more and quickly. 379 00:23:24.039 --> 00:23:28.799 Yeah, so you were just in Germany and you went 380 00:23:28.839 --> 00:23:35.640 to the Duco concentration camp, and any lessons we can 381 00:23:36.039 --> 00:23:38.880 I mean, it's the rise of the Nazis in Germany 382 00:23:39.519 --> 00:23:41.720 any parallel to what's going on in the United States. 383 00:23:41.720 --> 00:23:44.680 Obviously this is the ominous Powerless Lennard's book, But but 384 00:23:46.279 --> 00:23:48.880 you know, are the powerless to what's going on right now? 385 00:23:49.079 --> 00:23:51.559 How do you see the dissimilarities and the differences. 386 00:23:52.640 --> 00:23:57.559 Yeah, So every time the Nazis are brought up, people 387 00:23:57.599 --> 00:24:02.559 think of it as that the last card to draw 388 00:24:03.039 --> 00:24:06.160 and you can't do it. And it's true, like this 389 00:24:06.839 --> 00:24:10.680 the Nazis and sort of the final solution is so 390 00:24:10.799 --> 00:24:14.359 horrific that if that's what, Oh, we're like one step 391 00:24:14.400 --> 00:24:19.319 away from the Nazis and massive concentration camps. I don't 392 00:24:19.359 --> 00:24:23.240 think that. But the rise of the Nazis is interesting 393 00:24:25.359 --> 00:24:29.279 for many reasons. You're talking about the ominous perils, that is, 394 00:24:29.319 --> 00:24:33.759 talking about the whole intellectual climate that was necessary for 395 00:24:33.799 --> 00:24:35.960 their rise, and that you have to see it as 396 00:24:36.480 --> 00:24:39.279 a century and more in the making. I mean century 397 00:24:39.279 --> 00:24:42.880 in Germany with Kanton Hegel, or a century and more, 398 00:24:43.160 --> 00:24:47.559 but going back even further than that into the nature 399 00:24:47.599 --> 00:24:53.960 and ideas and philosophy. Another aspect of it is there's 400 00:24:54.000 --> 00:24:57.920 a way people can hold it as you've got some 401 00:24:58.240 --> 00:25:01.319 crazy aber like who knows where they came from, how 402 00:25:01.359 --> 00:25:05.960 it happened, and they just quickly seized power. So that's 403 00:25:06.000 --> 00:25:09.160 not what happened. And I think one of the things, 404 00:25:09.720 --> 00:25:12.119 so this is part of my asking you are. I 405 00:25:12.160 --> 00:25:15.720 think asking like, what's going to happen if when we 406 00:25:15.759 --> 00:25:19.079 get the next administration or the next people in the 407 00:25:19.079 --> 00:25:23.160 Republican Party. For me, the most important thing because I 408 00:25:23.160 --> 00:25:24.559 have a certain view of Trump. As I said, I 409 00:25:24.640 --> 00:25:28.400 don't think of him as his craving power, but I 410 00:25:28.440 --> 00:25:31.160 do think there are people around him or cra I 411 00:25:31.200 --> 00:25:35.599 think the most important thing is that all these people 412 00:25:35.599 --> 00:25:37.960 it's the end of their political career. I would put 413 00:25:38.079 --> 00:25:44.079 Rubio gnome jd vance that once Trump is gone, it 414 00:25:44.519 --> 00:25:47.720 that they cannot get voted into power. There's too many 415 00:25:47.759 --> 00:25:50.440 in the country. You will say, no, these were bootleckers, 416 00:25:50.519 --> 00:25:55.039 boot liquors. They would they would basically sell their soul. 417 00:25:56.400 --> 00:25:59.279 And I mean that's my view of Rubio when you 418 00:25:59.279 --> 00:26:03.960 see him on camera with with Zelenski, it's the it's 419 00:26:04.440 --> 00:26:08.079 he knows he's sold his soul yea, and what like 420 00:26:08.240 --> 00:26:11.200 I've I've now got to play that card in effect 421 00:26:11.319 --> 00:26:16.319 or or play that persona. But it's so I think 422 00:26:16.359 --> 00:26:18.880 that's the for me, the most important I would never 423 00:26:19.000 --> 00:26:22.599 vote for any of them ever, no matter what policies 424 00:26:22.640 --> 00:26:25.359 they put forth, even if it sounds good, it was 425 00:26:25.880 --> 00:26:29.279 if you're willing to sell your soul then you're you're 426 00:26:29.359 --> 00:26:31.440 basically willing to do anything. And then again that like 427 00:26:31.519 --> 00:26:33.720 that's the difference that we were talking about between the 428 00:26:33.759 --> 00:26:38.519 first administration and the second. There were people around who thought, yeah, 429 00:26:38.519 --> 00:26:41.160 maybe I have to stay around to try to restrain 430 00:26:41.359 --> 00:26:43.880 Trump and so, and you have now the people who 431 00:26:43.920 --> 00:26:46.720 want to enable him or use him to get their 432 00:26:46.799 --> 00:26:53.240 policy and the that's I think really dangerous and it is. Yeah, 433 00:26:53.319 --> 00:26:55.920 I have such a negative view of those people. 434 00:26:56.759 --> 00:27:00.480 Yeah, I mean, differentiate between Rubio and Vance. 435 00:27:01.119 --> 00:27:03.839 Ruby. I think is kind of power hungry and he's 436 00:27:03.880 --> 00:27:07.319 sold his soul and he knows it. He looks miserable. Vance, 437 00:27:07.400 --> 00:27:11.240 I think is he knows what he wants. He I mean, 438 00:27:11.279 --> 00:27:15.599 he's he's he is all in. He he does. I 439 00:27:15.599 --> 00:27:17.480 don't think he feels like he sold his soul. This 440 00:27:17.559 --> 00:27:21.039 is his soul, right, this, this is exactly what he wants. 441 00:27:21.079 --> 00:27:21.519 He is. 442 00:27:22.759 --> 00:27:24.160 He's a real authoritarian. 443 00:27:24.160 --> 00:27:26.440 I mean, he calls himself a Christian conservative and I 444 00:27:26.440 --> 00:27:29.160 think a Christian nationalist and I think he really is 445 00:27:29.200 --> 00:27:33.079 a nationalist in that sense. He's given that speech about 446 00:27:33.160 --> 00:27:37.319 America is not an idea, it's a people in a place, right. 447 00:27:37.359 --> 00:27:40.319 So he's a he's a blood and soil nationalist. And 448 00:27:40.400 --> 00:27:44.559 he scares me. I don't think he's he can win, 449 00:27:44.640 --> 00:27:47.200 but I think but he's but who knows in three years? 450 00:27:47.240 --> 00:27:48.480 I mean, he he scares me. 451 00:27:49.799 --> 00:27:51.559 Yeah, I agree with yeah, So yeah, I don't. I 452 00:27:51.559 --> 00:27:54.039 don't think they've all sold her soul, because, as you said, 453 00:27:54.319 --> 00:28:00.039 that is his soul. Rubio I had in the the 454 00:28:01.599 --> 00:28:05.160 I mean before Trump won in twenty and sixteen and 455 00:28:05.599 --> 00:28:09.839 before he got the nomination. I thought of the field 456 00:28:09.920 --> 00:28:13.720 the Republicans were, that the people vying for to be 457 00:28:13.759 --> 00:28:18.839 the nominee for their party for the presidential election, Rubio 458 00:28:19.720 --> 00:28:24.319 was the most American that he seemed to actually believe 459 00:28:26.079 --> 00:28:30.960 that the story of immigration in America, of what the 460 00:28:31.039 --> 00:28:35.720 Cuban immigrants have done and their right to flee Cuba 461 00:28:35.799 --> 00:28:38.920 and then build something, and it's right for America to 462 00:28:38.960 --> 00:28:43.960 be open to them, and that he can reverse in 463 00:28:44.039 --> 00:28:46.960 the way that he has and the way like a 464 00:28:47.279 --> 00:28:50.799 whitewashing Veniceul because we want to send people back to there, 465 00:28:50.920 --> 00:28:55.799 and so all that is the that that's what I 466 00:28:55.799 --> 00:28:59.880 think of his part is selling his soul, and that 467 00:29:00.720 --> 00:29:06.759 the I think an American, normal American should be really 468 00:29:06.839 --> 00:29:09.440 turned off by that. I think they will. Yeah. I 469 00:29:09.599 --> 00:29:14.359 so I think I might might be wrong, but yeah, 470 00:29:14.400 --> 00:29:18.160 I think Vance doesn't can't have the support that Trump has, 471 00:29:19.400 --> 00:29:25.079 and I think Rubio couldn't unless he really could somehow explain. Yeah, 472 00:29:25.119 --> 00:29:28.400 I'm like, I'm changing course again now. I've I've met 473 00:29:28.799 --> 00:29:33.519 or sort of known someone who's known Rubio for a 474 00:29:33.559 --> 00:29:36.559 long time and says like, this is Rubio six point zero, 475 00:29:36.839 --> 00:29:40.359 that it's he changes his tune all the time, so, 476 00:29:40.480 --> 00:29:46.640 which is certainly possible. But yeah, so it's the people 477 00:29:46.759 --> 00:29:51.400 around him Trump now that I think it's very important 478 00:29:51.519 --> 00:29:56.240 that this be the apex of their political career. And 479 00:29:56.279 --> 00:29:59.039 when Trump's gone, They're gone. Yeah. 480 00:29:59.480 --> 00:30:02.519 I mean, I don't know how it happens, given how 481 00:30:02.640 --> 00:30:08.799 much Magan and Trump control the Republican Party. Now, it 482 00:30:08.960 --> 00:30:11.279 just seems like this is the Republican Party for the 483 00:30:11.319 --> 00:30:12.200 foreseeable future. 484 00:30:13.240 --> 00:30:19.640 Yeah, And a lot will depend on if they face 485 00:30:19.720 --> 00:30:27.599 any real opposition, that is opposition that the sort of 486 00:30:27.720 --> 00:30:32.359 people who are concerned about the authoritarianism and actually like 487 00:30:32.440 --> 00:30:37.319 America could feel I could vote for this person against 488 00:30:37.359 --> 00:30:41.920 these more power hungry people. But if you feel someone 489 00:30:42.000 --> 00:30:46.599 like Kamala Harris or Hillary Clinton, who's another power I 490 00:30:46.680 --> 00:30:51.599 think is a power luster. Then it's yeah, then I 491 00:30:51.640 --> 00:30:56.000 can see events being elected, but not if you had 492 00:30:56.000 --> 00:31:01.759 someone like Obama. I think that people I still think 493 00:31:01.880 --> 00:31:04.640 he would win. I might have been wrong about that, but. 494 00:31:05.440 --> 00:31:06.400 Yeah, I don't don't. 495 00:31:06.400 --> 00:31:06.920 I don't know. 496 00:31:07.240 --> 00:31:09.440 I think he wered. Of course, when he was president, 497 00:31:09.480 --> 00:31:12.079 we thought it can't get any worse than this guy. Yeah, 498 00:31:13.000 --> 00:31:14.279 and then it really did. 499 00:31:14.960 --> 00:31:17.720 Now we miss Obama. That's pretty scary. 500 00:31:19.119 --> 00:31:19.559 I remember. 501 00:31:19.799 --> 00:31:22.279 Let me tell my wife, every time Obama would come 502 00:31:22.279 --> 00:31:24.039 on TV, she'd turned a TV and she couldn't she 503 00:31:24.079 --> 00:31:25.359 couldn't hear him. 504 00:31:25.640 --> 00:31:27.039 She just got physically ill. 505 00:31:27.640 --> 00:31:32.240 And and now after Trump, it's like she's saying, yeah, 506 00:31:32.240 --> 00:31:35.000 I could listen to Obama all day as compitter this guy. 507 00:31:35.960 --> 00:31:40.279 So let's let's pivot and. 508 00:31:42.440 --> 00:31:44.400 Let's talk about some of the work we do at 509 00:31:44.400 --> 00:31:49.440 the Institute, particularly, you know, the focus I think is 510 00:31:49.519 --> 00:31:52.000 now on on and has been for a long time, 511 00:31:52.279 --> 00:31:55.319 on developing intellectuals and expanding. 512 00:31:54.799 --> 00:31:56.160 The realm of intellectuals. 513 00:31:57.319 --> 00:32:00.440 What's the sense what's the sense that you know, we've 514 00:32:00.480 --> 00:32:04.200 talked about we need lots of intellectuals. Why do you 515 00:32:04.240 --> 00:32:06.279 think that is so important? What is the importance of 516 00:32:06.319 --> 00:32:10.240 having a significant number of intellectual voices out there. 517 00:32:10.640 --> 00:32:12.559 From the objectives' perspective. 518 00:32:14.400 --> 00:32:19.799 I still find when I go out into the I 519 00:32:19.839 --> 00:32:21.680 don't know what the right way to put it, so 520 00:32:21.880 --> 00:32:27.000 the more mainstream world or something like that, it shocking 521 00:32:28.599 --> 00:32:35.359 how hemmed in people are by their conventional categories and 522 00:32:35.480 --> 00:32:39.599 way of looking at the world, and that how alien 523 00:32:40.519 --> 00:32:47.839 the sort of Einran's ideas. The objectivist philosophy still is 524 00:32:47.960 --> 00:32:51.200 alien in the sense that they've never heard of this. 525 00:32:51.880 --> 00:32:56.160 It's not something they've considered and rejected or found wanting. 526 00:32:56.599 --> 00:33:01.640 It's still they've never heard of you like this, And 527 00:33:02.519 --> 00:33:05.200 the only way they're going to hear it is if 528 00:33:05.279 --> 00:33:09.240 there's more and more intellectuals in the culture, and intellectually 529 00:33:09.240 --> 00:33:11.559 I'm using in a broad term, in a broad way, 530 00:33:11.640 --> 00:33:14.480 not so it doesn't that I don't mean just sort 531 00:33:14.480 --> 00:33:19.240 of the leading intellectuals or the most recognized public intellectuals 532 00:33:19.319 --> 00:33:23.359 or anything like that, just that they encounter it some 533 00:33:23.400 --> 00:33:26.960 of these ideas in their high school in the college classroom. 534 00:33:27.000 --> 00:33:29.160 But again, it doesn't have to be like the superstar 535 00:33:29.480 --> 00:33:32.000 at the at the university or even at the high school. 536 00:33:32.039 --> 00:33:37.359 It's just they get some more exposure to this in 537 00:33:37.400 --> 00:33:40.599 a serious way and this is I was telling you 538 00:33:41.640 --> 00:33:46.319 before the show that I just did a guest appearance 539 00:33:46.400 --> 00:33:49.480 in a Harvard business class. So that's part of how 540 00:33:49.519 --> 00:33:51.960 I think of it, as it like, this is the mainstream. 541 00:33:52.720 --> 00:33:56.960 It's the mainstream in academia, but it's not some and 542 00:33:56.960 --> 00:34:00.960 it wasn't some professor who's like way outside and everybody 543 00:34:01.079 --> 00:34:05.960 of the mainstream people think he's crazy or as strange 544 00:34:06.039 --> 00:34:10.480 views or something. And the guest appearance because it's a 545 00:34:10.519 --> 00:34:15.599 class where they look at influential people across like not 546 00:34:15.760 --> 00:34:19.639 just in business, like a wide range of influential people 547 00:34:19.679 --> 00:34:22.679 and think that it seems at least sort of two 548 00:34:22.719 --> 00:34:26.559 angles on it in what way if they did did 549 00:34:26.559 --> 00:34:30.320 these people change the world? So like what's their impact? 550 00:34:30.440 --> 00:34:33.320 And then what did they have to do to have 551 00:34:33.360 --> 00:34:35.360 that impact? Including like what did they have to do 552 00:34:35.400 --> 00:34:38.400 to have the career they had? What kind of dedication today? 553 00:34:38.440 --> 00:34:40.840 So it's it's and so it's looking at I rand 554 00:34:40.960 --> 00:34:44.880 as having an impact on the culture and then what 555 00:34:45.199 --> 00:34:47.079 was like what did she do to do that? And 556 00:34:47.119 --> 00:34:50.480 like what's for instance, what's the significant's that she wrote 557 00:34:50.599 --> 00:34:54.199 both fiction and nonfiction? Is that keda understanding part of 558 00:34:54.239 --> 00:35:01.239 her impact? It's all and the class. So these are 559 00:35:01.360 --> 00:35:07.280 obviously smart, uh and and dedicated students by and large, 560 00:35:09.480 --> 00:35:14.079 I would say like much more than just the bare 561 00:35:14.199 --> 00:35:19.119 majority didn't really know much about iron Rand. And what 562 00:35:19.199 --> 00:35:25.719 they've heard is the various kind of critics and conventional 563 00:35:25.840 --> 00:35:29.360 takes on iron Rant. So that you've got and then 564 00:35:29.519 --> 00:35:32.400 and then on the ideas it was I and I 565 00:35:32.440 --> 00:35:36.519 still I mean, I've encountered as often, but the I 566 00:35:36.559 --> 00:35:41.599 mean often to understated that everybody's selfish and that you 567 00:35:41.639 --> 00:35:46.239 can think that and really like you're at Harvard and 568 00:35:46.440 --> 00:35:49.199 you can think that. It like it's sort of yeah, everybody, 569 00:35:49.360 --> 00:35:51.599 but what you can't take it to too much of 570 00:35:51.639 --> 00:35:54.679 an extreme. But everybody is like sort of partly selfish, 571 00:35:55.119 --> 00:35:58.840 and they have no idea what like what that means 572 00:35:58.840 --> 00:36:01.880 how to think about that. They don't really believe it, 573 00:36:01.920 --> 00:36:07.039 because they'll say something different ten minutes later and it 574 00:36:07.280 --> 00:36:10.920 comes as news to them that, you know, and Ren's 575 00:36:11.000 --> 00:36:14.320 challenging the whole way you think about selfishness and the 576 00:36:15.559 --> 00:36:19.039 and I mean one of the good things is so 577 00:36:19.159 --> 00:36:22.880 both two of us at the institute, myself and Alan, 578 00:36:23.079 --> 00:36:25.800 did guest appearances in the class, and we've pushed you 579 00:36:26.199 --> 00:36:29.239 can get on Rend's books for free from us, and 580 00:36:29.679 --> 00:36:33.079 the professor wrote back that one of them is starting 581 00:36:33.079 --> 00:36:36.320 reading The fountain Head and part but this is part 582 00:36:36.320 --> 00:36:40.320 of what the interesting the reaction is. This book's really good. 583 00:36:41.360 --> 00:36:44.880 He was one hundred pages in. It's like nothing I've 584 00:36:44.920 --> 00:36:48.880 read before. Why didn't I get this in high school 585 00:36:48.960 --> 00:36:52.000 or college? Yep, Like I took a guest appearance of 586 00:36:52.039 --> 00:36:54.320 someone from an I ran institute that I'm sure they 587 00:36:54.400 --> 00:36:57.119 never heard of, and yeah, I could get afraid. That's 588 00:36:57.119 --> 00:37:00.280 how I got. And that is there's gotta be so 589 00:37:00.440 --> 00:37:03.840 many people still like that that this was if you 590 00:37:04.000 --> 00:37:09.199 had people in high school recommend not even if not 591 00:37:09.280 --> 00:37:11.800 teaching it to the whole class, but recommending it to 592 00:37:11.920 --> 00:37:14.320 students who think he thinks like this might have an 593 00:37:14.320 --> 00:37:16.920 impact and so on. And I mean, we need that 594 00:37:17.039 --> 00:37:23.559 in thousands and thousands and thousands of times over. And 595 00:37:23.599 --> 00:37:25.920 that means you have to have thousands and thousands and 596 00:37:25.960 --> 00:37:30.760 thousands of people in schools, in universities who are doing this, 597 00:37:31.480 --> 00:37:33.079 as I say, like they don't have to be the 598 00:37:33.159 --> 00:37:38.920 leaders in the field, but are introducing students and just 599 00:37:39.079 --> 00:37:42.480 young minds to a new way of looking at things. 600 00:37:42.639 --> 00:37:46.920 And it's easy when you're immersed in I random objectivism 601 00:37:47.360 --> 00:37:51.239 to think everybody's heard of this, it's still I mean, 602 00:37:51.480 --> 00:37:54.239 it's better and work we've done at the Institute of 603 00:37:54.280 --> 00:37:57.000 work we did when you were here in leading institute 604 00:37:57.159 --> 00:38:00.199 has so they're for sure more people than twenty five 605 00:38:00.239 --> 00:38:04.159 years ago, but still it's small compared to what it 606 00:38:04.320 --> 00:38:05.639 could be and needs to be. 607 00:38:06.480 --> 00:38:08.159 And it's not just that they don't know any And 608 00:38:08.360 --> 00:38:12.639 it's that I find that they're thinking is so conventional. 609 00:38:12.679 --> 00:38:18.920 They're all they're objections to capitalism or the objections to egoism, 610 00:38:19.000 --> 00:38:20.199 just the conventional stuff. 611 00:38:20.239 --> 00:38:22.440 There's no there's nothing. 612 00:38:24.599 --> 00:38:28.239 They live within very narrow bounds of what they're exposed 613 00:38:28.280 --> 00:38:29.920 to in terms of ideas. 614 00:38:32.239 --> 00:38:36.159 Yeah, that's I mean, I find that it's one of 615 00:38:36.159 --> 00:38:39.400 the reasons I was interested in philosophy. And it's still 616 00:38:40.280 --> 00:38:46.440 for people who are unphilosophic. This is part of when 617 00:38:46.480 --> 00:38:50.320 I categorize someone as unphilosophic. And it doesn't mean bad, 618 00:38:50.719 --> 00:38:57.119 doesn't mean stupid, but it just means they're content with 619 00:38:57.400 --> 00:39:02.360 the categories they've been offered. Yep, And a philosophic person 620 00:39:02.519 --> 00:39:06.280 has some inkling and then finds it really interesting when 621 00:39:06.440 --> 00:39:08.480 someone said and I'm man says is over and over 622 00:39:08.519 --> 00:39:12.119 and over again. The categories you're using, you can't think 623 00:39:12.159 --> 00:39:15.840 with these, they're wrong and you need different categories. And 624 00:39:16.960 --> 00:39:20.320 a philosophic person to me perks up when they hear that, 625 00:39:20.679 --> 00:39:23.440 and it is really like, there's a whole different way 626 00:39:23.440 --> 00:39:26.480 of looking at things than the way I've been looking 627 00:39:26.559 --> 00:39:28.880 at or looking at it, or have been taught to 628 00:39:28.920 --> 00:39:34.800 look at it, and that it's what iron Rand did. 629 00:39:34.840 --> 00:39:38.079 But part of the work of intellectuals is to hammer 630 00:39:38.199 --> 00:39:42.639 that in because it's so difficult to do, and there's 631 00:39:42.679 --> 00:39:45.880 many people who are won't do it, even like some 632 00:39:46.000 --> 00:39:50.599 exposure to iron Rand, won't do it unless it's really pushed, 633 00:39:50.960 --> 00:39:53.199 and part of the work of the intellectuals is to 634 00:39:53.280 --> 00:39:57.760 say no. Like, what she's doing is she's rethinking selfishness, 635 00:39:57.760 --> 00:39:59.719 and you can't think of it in the way you're 636 00:39:59.760 --> 00:40:05.239 doing it. It's not selfishness doesn't come automatically. That's not 637 00:40:05.559 --> 00:40:08.840 the way the right way to think about it. You've 638 00:40:10.159 --> 00:40:11.920 i mean, one of the ways that I often put 639 00:40:11.920 --> 00:40:17.480 it when I'm explaining it to relatively new people. Most 640 00:40:17.519 --> 00:40:21.440 people's selfishness is it's easy and bad, and her view 641 00:40:21.880 --> 00:40:26.559 is it's hard and good yep, and like that's so 642 00:40:26.719 --> 00:40:30.719 it's it's like a very different perspective. And as I 643 00:40:30.760 --> 00:40:33.840 say that, a philosophic person finds that really interesting. But 644 00:40:34.440 --> 00:40:36.800 there will be many features people in the culture. And 645 00:40:36.800 --> 00:40:40.960 again it doesn't mean they're bad who just can't do that, 646 00:40:41.239 --> 00:40:45.159 won't do the work unless they're getting it in their education. 647 00:40:46.119 --> 00:40:49.639 Of that it's really forcing them to do it. But 648 00:40:49.760 --> 00:40:54.000 that's like you need teachers and intellectuals doing that work 649 00:40:54.599 --> 00:40:58.280 over and over again. And if you don't have that, 650 00:40:58.440 --> 00:41:02.079 it's then what you'll have of the conventional views are 651 00:41:02.079 --> 00:41:04.840 conventional for a reason. And part of the reason is 652 00:41:04.960 --> 00:41:07.920 this is what the educational system gives them, and that's 653 00:41:08.000 --> 00:41:11.039 all they'll work with. And unless you get like a 654 00:41:11.159 --> 00:41:15.320 big change in the educational system, it will just repeat itself. 655 00:41:15.400 --> 00:41:18.280 And it's the intellectuals who have to change the intellect 656 00:41:18.400 --> 00:41:20.559 the educational system. Nobody else is going to do it. 657 00:41:21.239 --> 00:41:23.440 Yeah, And it's it's also the intellectuals and the media 658 00:41:23.519 --> 00:41:26.480 and the podcast they listen to, and you know, everywhere 659 00:41:26.519 --> 00:41:30.159 they go they get the same range of views and 660 00:41:30.199 --> 00:41:32.440 they think that is all that exists. 661 00:41:33.840 --> 00:41:41.320 Yeah, And the because ein Rand is out still comparatively 662 00:41:41.440 --> 00:41:47.920 outside of the mainstream. They both have conventional views and 663 00:41:47.960 --> 00:41:53.199 then they've succumbed to conventional views of Inrant. But again 664 00:41:53.400 --> 00:41:55.880 I still find it I shouldn't, but I still find 665 00:41:55.920 --> 00:42:00.800 it shocking that if you're dealing with bought the level 666 00:42:01.400 --> 00:42:05.760 sort of the intellectual and achievement level, I think the 667 00:42:05.800 --> 00:42:09.159 people buy and large you get into Harvard, I've seen 668 00:42:09.239 --> 00:42:12.400 more of Stanford and like the people at Stanford or 669 00:42:12.679 --> 00:42:17.880 the students at Stanford, like they're really smart and achievement 670 00:42:18.039 --> 00:42:21.159 oriented and so on that. So one of the things 671 00:42:21.159 --> 00:42:25.840 that came up was that Einran just glorifies the rich 672 00:42:25.960 --> 00:42:29.639 and glorifies business. And I brought up in the in 673 00:42:29.679 --> 00:42:32.920 the whatever fifteen twenty minutes of remarks that I had 674 00:42:33.840 --> 00:42:37.760 time to do of well, that's when if you look 675 00:42:37.800 --> 00:42:41.119 at at the straw and like the major villains are 676 00:42:41.159 --> 00:42:45.880 businessmen and rich in it, it's and it's they haven't 677 00:42:45.920 --> 00:42:49.239 even read it. And no one's like, mate that how 678 00:42:49.280 --> 00:42:50.719 can you have a view of Inrand if you haven't 679 00:42:50.760 --> 00:42:52.280 read it? And they like, how do you know that 680 00:42:52.360 --> 00:42:56.960 this is going? And again like that's they would need 681 00:42:57.000 --> 00:43:01.039 to be challenged in the educational system like you and 682 00:43:01.119 --> 00:43:03.119 pritically if you know that iin rand is sort of 683 00:43:03.159 --> 00:43:05.880 she's a controversial figure. You can't just take for granted 684 00:43:05.920 --> 00:43:09.320 that people told you, well, she loves anybody who's rich 685 00:43:09.360 --> 00:43:11.880 and hates anybody who's poor, so that must be your view. 686 00:43:12.760 --> 00:43:18.519 But like that's you. Real teachers and educators would push them, 687 00:43:18.599 --> 00:43:20.039 like how do you have a view if you haven't 688 00:43:20.039 --> 00:43:24.800 even read at the shrug, But it's they're not encouraged 689 00:43:24.840 --> 00:43:30.440 to do that. And I mean, if you want better people, 690 00:43:31.000 --> 00:43:34.559 better educated, somebody has to do the educated. And if 691 00:43:34.559 --> 00:43:38.440 it's always just you're blaming the schools, but nobody's going 692 00:43:38.440 --> 00:43:39.920 in and saying like I'm going to do it different 693 00:43:39.960 --> 00:43:41.519 or I'm going to do it better, how do you 694 00:43:41.559 --> 00:43:43.599 expect things are going to change? And this is why 695 00:43:43.880 --> 00:43:48.679 the you don't need thousands of mine rants, but you 696 00:43:48.800 --> 00:43:55.360 need thousands of people who are really teaching her ideas 697 00:43:55.559 --> 00:43:59.559 and worldview in such a way that you'll have students 698 00:44:00.719 --> 00:44:05.519 and especially the better students, actually engaging with it versus 699 00:44:06.719 --> 00:44:09.400 even And again I don't think it was ill motivated 700 00:44:09.440 --> 00:44:11.119 at all. It's just part of this is how they've 701 00:44:11.159 --> 00:44:14.079 been They've been trained with the conventional categories, and they've 702 00:44:14.079 --> 00:44:18.039 been trained that this is what Iran stands for and 703 00:44:18.079 --> 00:44:23.800 so and they have not been encouraged to really probe 704 00:44:24.079 --> 00:44:29.199 preticting for controversial figures. So I felt sad for the student, 705 00:44:29.280 --> 00:44:31.599 not oh my god, like how could they be like, 706 00:44:31.639 --> 00:44:34.800 But it's just, yeah, you think your education is not 707 00:44:34.840 --> 00:44:38.880 serving you if you're being given all this conventional stuff 708 00:44:39.360 --> 00:44:42.440 and you're not really encouraged. And I'm not putting like 709 00:44:42.480 --> 00:44:44.840 this professor. I think it's good that he's bringing Iran 710 00:44:45.280 --> 00:44:47.880 in and so on, and it's he seemed to of 711 00:44:47.960 --> 00:44:50.559 the people I've heard serve have been some of the 712 00:44:50.599 --> 00:44:54.480 case studies. It seemed fairly wide ranging, and that was good. 713 00:44:54.559 --> 00:44:57.159 But when you're looking at the students, I don't get 714 00:44:57.159 --> 00:45:01.000 the sense they've really been pushed in their whole education. 715 00:45:01.400 --> 00:45:02.760 And that's a tragedy. 716 00:45:03.480 --> 00:45:06.920 And there's something in the culture, particularly in the online culture, 717 00:45:07.079 --> 00:45:10.559 of everybody has an opinion, right. You don't have to 718 00:45:10.599 --> 00:45:12.599 know anything about the topic, but you have an opinion 719 00:45:12.639 --> 00:45:16.119 about it, and you can be actually, really really have 720 00:45:16.199 --> 00:45:19.840 strong opinions about things you know nothing about, and people 721 00:45:19.840 --> 00:45:21.880 get rewarded for that in the culture, you know, and 722 00:45:22.400 --> 00:45:25.119 podcasts and with following on. 723 00:45:25.039 --> 00:45:26.199 Twitter and places like that. 724 00:45:26.280 --> 00:45:28.880 And I think that's become much more of a part 725 00:45:28.920 --> 00:45:31.119 of the culture. Maybe it was always there, but they 726 00:45:31.119 --> 00:45:34.880 didn't have a venue by which to articulate their ignorance. 727 00:45:34.920 --> 00:45:38.480 But now since they've got some way to write about. 728 00:45:38.239 --> 00:45:42.000 It, you see it everyway, people expressing opinions about things 729 00:45:42.039 --> 00:45:44.199 they know nothing about. 730 00:45:45.000 --> 00:45:49.000 Yes, it's yeah. I again, I don't know how much 731 00:45:49.840 --> 00:45:53.480 it's changed versus it's much more visible now, But there 732 00:45:53.519 --> 00:45:59.880 has to be some element that has changed in that 733 00:46:00.320 --> 00:46:03.559 it's easy to think of yourself as yeah, I'm an 734 00:46:03.559 --> 00:46:09.320 expert because I've googled four things, and and so this 735 00:46:09.320 --> 00:46:12.239 this was another aspect that I just thought in terms 736 00:46:12.239 --> 00:46:18.519 of thinking skills, really somebody Harvard it. So there were 737 00:46:18.519 --> 00:46:23.159 two things that that just shocked me that there wasn't 738 00:46:23.239 --> 00:46:28.119 more pushback in the class in regard to this. And 739 00:46:28.159 --> 00:46:32.119 again it's just I think this is the educational system. 740 00:46:32.239 --> 00:46:36.840 So one was buying into the story that ein Rand 741 00:46:36.960 --> 00:46:42.519 doesn't care about didn't care about her family, and so 742 00:46:42.519 --> 00:46:46.360 so this is in some of the biographies, this is 743 00:46:47.239 --> 00:46:55.840 like really trumpeted, and they couldn't nobody brought up that, well, 744 00:46:56.239 --> 00:47:00.039 she's writing to her family in the Soviet Union, and 745 00:47:01.159 --> 00:47:04.920 it might be dangerous to do that, and she's like 746 00:47:04.960 --> 00:47:09.719 one of the most fierce anti communists and being connected 747 00:47:09.760 --> 00:47:14.760 to her, like might that be a problem for people 748 00:47:15.039 --> 00:47:18.920 left back? And again like they're at Harvard, so they 749 00:47:19.280 --> 00:47:26.119 have to know something about Yeah, this to Iran Iranian dissidents, 750 00:47:27.519 --> 00:47:29.920 this kind of thing happens, or even just like Russia 751 00:47:30.000 --> 00:47:32.960 now it happens. If you're critical of Putin, you have 752 00:47:33.039 --> 00:47:35.519 to worry what if you're going back or if your 753 00:47:35.559 --> 00:47:40.360 family's like some awareness that regimes take it out on 754 00:47:40.559 --> 00:47:44.840 the families of the of people who are outspoken and 755 00:47:44.920 --> 00:47:48.800 outspoken critics, Like it doesn't cross your mind, like that 756 00:47:48.920 --> 00:47:52.039 might be that she's not like super published. She might 757 00:47:52.039 --> 00:47:53.719 be trying to get her family out, but she's not 758 00:47:53.880 --> 00:47:56.719 super public about it, and so like it can't even 759 00:47:56.800 --> 00:48:00.480 occur to a question of like maybe it's something like 760 00:48:00.519 --> 00:48:02.400 that is going on it, But it was just no, 761 00:48:02.480 --> 00:48:05.599 it's like obvious that she couldn't set her families. So 762 00:48:05.639 --> 00:48:07.800 I told them that, and I told him that, you know, 763 00:48:07.880 --> 00:48:10.039 there would be a reason for and you could see 764 00:48:10.400 --> 00:48:12.719 that for some of them it was yeah, that could 765 00:48:12.800 --> 00:48:16.079 make sense, but that it it couldn't occur. And then 766 00:48:16.960 --> 00:48:20.119 that you have that for a controversial figure, and I 767 00:48:20.159 --> 00:48:23.199 want to put it like that, a controversial figure not 768 00:48:23.360 --> 00:48:29.159 I Ran specifically that biographies of a controversial figure you 769 00:48:29.159 --> 00:48:35.159 should think are very difficult to do. That You're going 770 00:48:35.199 --> 00:48:38.079 to find people who hate that person and you're going 771 00:48:38.159 --> 00:48:41.039 to find people who love them that person, and you 772 00:48:41.119 --> 00:48:43.280 have to be suspicious of both, I think, and you 773 00:48:43.280 --> 00:48:48.480 have to think, like, how do you really get to 774 00:48:48.159 --> 00:48:54.199 to the to think you've got a reliable biography. I 775 00:48:54.199 --> 00:48:57.039 didn't do it in this class, but in one other class, 776 00:48:57.079 --> 00:48:59.599 because we've done this class a few times now, I 777 00:48:59.639 --> 00:49:02.599 brought up, uh, like, imagine the person who likes you 778 00:49:02.639 --> 00:49:06.199 the least wrote your biography for you wrote your would 779 00:49:06.239 --> 00:49:07.920 you like, how accurate do you think it would be? 780 00:49:08.320 --> 00:49:10.880 Everybody rely on it and so And when you put 781 00:49:10.920 --> 00:49:13.519 it in those terms, it was, yeah, like, there's some 782 00:49:13.559 --> 00:49:16.159 people that really don't like me, and there I wouldn't 783 00:49:16.159 --> 00:49:18.559 think that biography. And I said, well, like iin, RAN's 784 00:49:18.599 --> 00:49:22.119 a very polarizing figure and she had people who loved 785 00:49:22.119 --> 00:49:24.840 her people who hated her. Having a biography that you 786 00:49:24.880 --> 00:49:27.840 can't just think, well, there's a biography, so it's probably 787 00:49:27.880 --> 00:49:30.559 accurate or something like that. But again that they don't 788 00:49:30.599 --> 00:49:33.920 have the tools to think again, not to have the answer, 789 00:49:33.920 --> 00:49:37.960 but just to have a question about Yeah, a controversial figure. 790 00:49:37.960 --> 00:49:41.199 It's probably hard to find the biography that is good. 791 00:49:43.719 --> 00:49:47.320 To what extent do you think it's important to know 792 00:49:47.679 --> 00:49:52.159 to have an objective read on iron RAN's life in 793 00:49:52.239 --> 00:49:55.480 order to gain an appreciation for a philosophy. 794 00:49:57.920 --> 00:50:01.039 I think it would be interesting steem to know it. 795 00:50:01.239 --> 00:50:04.599 So I used to be so so to put the 796 00:50:04.639 --> 00:50:10.079 cards onto it. I'm not very interested in Iran's personal life, 797 00:50:10.199 --> 00:50:15.519 personal history. Just I'm not interested in I don't think 798 00:50:15.559 --> 00:50:16.000 she was. 799 00:50:16.480 --> 00:50:19.400 Yeah, I know, and. 800 00:50:19.320 --> 00:50:22.280 I think that's it's very relevant for thinking of her end. 801 00:50:22.320 --> 00:50:24.000 And she said of we the living, this is as 802 00:50:24.000 --> 00:50:27.480 close to an autobiography as I'm going to write. She 803 00:50:27.519 --> 00:50:31.000 wouldn't she wouldn't be interested in writing an autobiography. And 804 00:50:31.760 --> 00:50:35.360 what it is is it captures I think, her spirit 805 00:50:36.000 --> 00:50:39.199 and her way of facing the world, not the concrete 806 00:50:39.239 --> 00:50:42.920 details of her life. So like Kira, I think, is 807 00:50:42.960 --> 00:50:46.880 a young heinrand In. Not that Iman wanted to build 808 00:50:46.880 --> 00:50:50.079 bridges and so on. But if you can abstract, yeah, 809 00:50:50.239 --> 00:50:54.000 in spirit and that's what interested her, and that's that 810 00:50:54.119 --> 00:50:56.760 interests me. But you can get that from Einran's work. 811 00:50:56.960 --> 00:51:00.639 You don't need all the personal details of it, and 812 00:51:02.280 --> 00:51:05.679 I do so I think more than I used to 813 00:51:05.760 --> 00:51:12.760 think that it's relevant to think about her personal life 814 00:51:13.039 --> 00:51:15.599 from the point of view that she said she was 815 00:51:15.679 --> 00:51:20.320 living her philosophy, and so how is this actually working? 816 00:51:20.639 --> 00:51:23.920 I mean part of the after that, the shrug, the 817 00:51:24.880 --> 00:51:27.480 whatever about the author, I forget what that section is 818 00:51:27.920 --> 00:51:30.840 and my life comes down to I mean it. And 819 00:51:30.880 --> 00:51:34.719 she says something like, I've used the ideas that it's 820 00:51:34.760 --> 00:51:36.719 not like I'm telling people to be selfish, but I 821 00:51:36.760 --> 00:51:39.840 think I shouldn't be selfish and wasn't selfish? No, no, 822 00:51:39.880 --> 00:51:45.000 she thinks I was selfish, and so it is relevant 823 00:51:45.079 --> 00:51:49.679 to think of that, but I don't think we have 824 00:51:49.760 --> 00:51:53.000 access to it. So the in the sense that these 825 00:51:53.000 --> 00:51:58.199 are personal details, and unless you knew her well, and 826 00:51:58.280 --> 00:52:00.920 I think like are a good judge of people, a 827 00:52:00.920 --> 00:52:05.280 good judge of character, then you don't really know what 828 00:52:05.360 --> 00:52:08.639 was going on with her, like that she was depressed 829 00:52:08.679 --> 00:52:11.719 after out the drug. What did that mean exactly? What 830 00:52:11.719 --> 00:52:14.320 was the nature? There's a way in which I can 831 00:52:14.559 --> 00:52:20.039 imagine it of the cultural reception and of thinking, yeah, 832 00:52:20.039 --> 00:52:22.199 the culture's more bankrupt than I thought it was, and 833 00:52:22.199 --> 00:52:25.719 that's pretty depressed, Like I can understand, but part of 834 00:52:25.760 --> 00:52:28.880 the way it's portrayed I have trouble believing it was 835 00:52:28.920 --> 00:52:32.679 in that form that she sort of the reaction after 836 00:52:32.719 --> 00:52:35.639 at the drug because in some ways she had to 837 00:52:35.800 --> 00:52:39.360 know this because she's writing out of the drug, so 838 00:52:39.400 --> 00:52:41.360 she like she has a view of the state of 839 00:52:41.400 --> 00:52:43.559 the culture and and she says like this is ten 840 00:52:43.840 --> 00:52:46.719 years or something down the road. So I think what 841 00:52:46.880 --> 00:52:50.519 shocked her really is that she had no defenders, not 842 00:52:50.719 --> 00:52:54.760 that the culture. And but that's very different then the 843 00:52:54.800 --> 00:52:56.719 way it would be put as all the cultures. She 844 00:52:56.760 --> 00:52:59.199 didn't get good book reviews. Yeah, and she went into 845 00:52:59.239 --> 00:53:04.119 a depression. I don't believe. But it's really like, if 846 00:53:04.119 --> 00:53:07.400 I'm right about that, i'd have to know her, which 847 00:53:07.400 --> 00:53:10.719 I'd never met her, or know someone who I really 848 00:53:10.760 --> 00:53:13.320 have confidence in their judgment. I don't know many people 849 00:53:13.360 --> 00:53:15.599 like that. So it's just for me, it's just it's 850 00:53:15.679 --> 00:53:20.000 no accessible. So it's interesting but not accessible. 851 00:53:21.000 --> 00:53:23.800 Yeah, I mean to me, it seemed like the disappointment 852 00:53:23.840 --> 00:53:28.639 would be the no intellectuals, no philosophers got it and 853 00:53:28.719 --> 00:53:31.440 said oh wow, yeah, and and then no, and that 854 00:53:31.519 --> 00:53:34.760 the response from businessmen was there, but it was we 855 00:53:34.840 --> 00:53:37.960 know some of the businessmen who responded positively, and they 856 00:53:38.039 --> 00:53:41.559 just weren't at the caliber I think that she would 857 00:53:41.599 --> 00:53:46.639 have wanted and expected, and so many of them were 858 00:53:46.679 --> 00:53:48.679 religious and they want to give up that that and 859 00:53:49.360 --> 00:53:52.119 she confronted all these things that we often confront of 860 00:53:52.119 --> 00:53:54.280 of just this mixture of loving atlas Uk but not 861 00:53:54.360 --> 00:53:55.079 really getting it. 862 00:53:56.400 --> 00:54:02.840 Yeah, I think that. And and I think the stories 863 00:54:02.880 --> 00:54:06.719 that we've seen some of that, I mean after her death, 864 00:54:06.880 --> 00:54:12.880 of people who would compliment or praise her in private 865 00:54:13.199 --> 00:54:15.199 but wouldn't do it in public. 866 00:54:15.519 --> 00:54:15.800 Yep. 867 00:54:16.159 --> 00:54:22.280 I think that would really bother her because it's that's 868 00:54:22.280 --> 00:54:24.719 a straight moral issue. It's a it's a kind of 869 00:54:24.840 --> 00:54:27.119 cowardice and't that and that you can't just it's not 870 00:54:27.599 --> 00:54:29.960 they're not smart enough to get this or see that. 871 00:54:30.239 --> 00:54:35.000 It's it's and it's so not her that it I mean, 872 00:54:35.039 --> 00:54:39.960 she's so courageous that there's nobody who, even if they 873 00:54:40.119 --> 00:54:44.119 see it, have the courage to say it that. Yeah, 874 00:54:44.480 --> 00:54:46.880 that I can so I can understand that. And I 875 00:54:46.880 --> 00:54:52.559 think given the just the artistic achievement that it is 876 00:54:52.599 --> 00:54:55.920 at the shrugged yep, that nobody can recognize that and 877 00:54:55.920 --> 00:54:59.599 again it's not all like the vast swaths of people, 878 00:54:59.639 --> 00:55:03.840 but that some other minds that can really see this 879 00:55:04.159 --> 00:55:08.440 and will say it that I can imagine of having 880 00:55:08.480 --> 00:55:13.639 a kind of impact that is, that I can imagine 881 00:55:13.719 --> 00:55:16.519 that shocking her. It's if you if you think of 882 00:55:16.559 --> 00:55:23.119 it in terms of her kind of artistic vision, it's 883 00:55:23.679 --> 00:55:28.679 Whyden's reaction to Rarc, and it's it's he should try 884 00:55:28.719 --> 00:55:32.920 to crush Roarc, and he sort of halfheartedly tries, but 885 00:55:33.039 --> 00:55:35.440 he can't bring him to because he can see the 886 00:55:35.559 --> 00:55:39.000 level of achievement that is, and it is, Yeah, like 887 00:55:39.079 --> 00:55:42.000 I have to recognize this. And and I think she 888 00:55:42.079 --> 00:55:45.840 thought there'll be some people minds like that, and that 889 00:55:46.079 --> 00:55:48.159 she didn't get that that's gonna. 890 00:55:47.880 --> 00:55:53.679 Be particularly particularly given it from what I've you know, 891 00:55:53.760 --> 00:55:56.320 can't you aware this? But or maybe Leonard said this. 892 00:55:57.119 --> 00:56:00.360 She she couldn't conceive of her self as a genius, 893 00:56:01.320 --> 00:56:03.599 so she thought, Okay, well, they have to be other 894 00:56:03.840 --> 00:56:05.840 really really smart people out there who will get this. 895 00:56:06.679 --> 00:56:09.719 She couldn't quite conceive of how far ahead of everybody 896 00:56:09.760 --> 00:56:13.440 else she was. And if I could see her disappointed 897 00:56:14.159 --> 00:56:17.840 in the fact that there would people like her out there. 898 00:56:19.039 --> 00:56:22.920 Yeah, and I think it's gotta be. I mean, my 899 00:56:23.039 --> 00:56:29.519 guess would be it's more than just genius. So because 900 00:56:29.559 --> 00:56:32.719 I'm sympathetic, it's not like there's one genius in the world. 901 00:56:33.119 --> 00:56:39.199 It's that I don't think she fully grasped or probably 902 00:56:39.360 --> 00:56:45.760 or at least at this point, of how rare a positive 903 00:56:46.760 --> 00:56:54.119 philosophic genius is. And she she comments on this later 904 00:56:54.199 --> 00:57:00.320 when she's writing the non fiction of how it's like 905 00:57:00.360 --> 00:57:04.760 she used the metaphor how a few lions have gone 906 00:57:04.800 --> 00:57:08.800 into the field of philosophy, they've left it for the 907 00:57:08.840 --> 00:57:11.559 losers in the fact, And I mean she called Kant 908 00:57:11.639 --> 00:57:16.079 the kind of idiot savan so that there's an element 909 00:57:16.199 --> 00:57:20.840 of like real powerful mind there, but not it's not 910 00:57:20.880 --> 00:57:24.280 a positive orientation. And her view is it's not like 911 00:57:25.480 --> 00:57:29.000 Kant and Aristotle are on the same level. A positive 912 00:57:29.039 --> 00:57:31.039 genius is just so much to achieve. It's just so 913 00:57:31.119 --> 00:57:34.320 much more than to use your genius to destroy that 914 00:57:34.360 --> 00:57:37.159 you're not you're not in the same galaxy, so that 915 00:57:37.280 --> 00:57:40.400 it it's so rare. And I don't think that she 916 00:57:40.920 --> 00:57:45.199 was took philosophy as sort of everybody thinks philosophic, like 917 00:57:45.760 --> 00:57:48.920 how could you not? And so I think Projecting a 918 00:57:49.039 --> 00:57:54.559 genius that doesn't think philosophically is hard for her. I mean, 919 00:57:54.599 --> 00:57:56.920 she makes a she's aware of it. In the end, 920 00:57:57.280 --> 00:57:59.599 she makes this kind of comment about Einstein. It was 921 00:57:59.639 --> 00:58:04.039 clearly genius, but she puts it only so conventional once 922 00:58:04.079 --> 00:58:06.920 he gets outside of science. And it's but that I 923 00:58:06.920 --> 00:58:09.559 think would have been so alien to her that it's 924 00:58:09.559 --> 00:58:13.719 hard to project. Yeah. 925 00:58:14.320 --> 00:58:21.639 Yeah, because even even the geniuses, the villains in her novels, 926 00:58:22.920 --> 00:58:25.719 you know, they deal with philosophy. They might they might 927 00:58:25.760 --> 00:58:28.320 be evil about it, but they're not ignorant of it. 928 00:58:30.159 --> 00:58:32.480 Yeah, and the Pot like her Pot. I mean, it's 929 00:58:32.519 --> 00:58:36.159 part of what her heroes are too. But I mean 930 00:58:37.119 --> 00:58:41.320 Rearan's not a philosopher, but in comparison, like he's so 931 00:58:41.400 --> 00:58:46.400 philosophical and and that's like, yeah, so that she didn't 932 00:58:47.199 --> 00:58:53.639 there's nobody who could understand philosophically what she's doing. That 933 00:58:53.760 --> 00:58:57.840 I think it was hard for her to understand and 934 00:58:57.920 --> 00:59:00.079 to project. I mean she came to see it was true, 935 00:59:00.159 --> 00:59:03.679 but the project that yeah, there can be some genius 936 00:59:03.760 --> 00:59:10.960 level minds, but they're so conventional yeap philosophically, Yeah, yeah. 937 00:59:11.119 --> 00:59:13.400 All right, this would be great. Let's uh, we've got 938 00:59:13.400 --> 00:59:18.800 a bunch of questions, so it's uh, it's start digging 939 00:59:18.840 --> 00:59:23.320 into those. You guys can still ask questions, so uh, 940 00:59:23.400 --> 00:59:25.039 but let's start with Wes. 941 00:59:25.119 --> 00:59:27.199 Thank you, Wes uncle. 942 00:59:27.360 --> 00:59:30.639 Is there an aspect of philosophy you enjoy talking about 943 00:59:30.760 --> 00:59:34.519 or studying more than others? 944 00:59:36.039 --> 00:59:42.800 Yes, I've been broadly speaking, I'm most interested in morality. 945 00:59:43.199 --> 00:59:47.320 I'm most interested in talking to people about it. It's 946 00:59:47.599 --> 00:59:53.119 most of what I think about when I'm thinking about philosophy. 947 00:59:53.280 --> 00:59:57.880 In part, well, in part it's just I would put it, 948 00:59:58.519 --> 01:00:01.719 I'm a moralist first and foremost like that's it was 949 01:00:01.719 --> 01:00:05.599 what my attraction to philosophy was attraction to Iron Rand. 950 01:00:06.159 --> 01:00:11.119 It was when I first read Iinrand. My reaction, in effect, 951 01:00:11.159 --> 01:00:13.760 if not in so many words, was this, a person 952 01:00:13.840 --> 01:00:16.840 takes morality more seriously than I do, and I took 953 01:00:16.880 --> 01:00:20.880 it seriously. So it was like, that's the impression she 954 01:00:21.320 --> 01:00:24.599 made on me, and that at the shrug made on me. 955 01:00:24.719 --> 01:00:30.639 So it's been it's my interest from the start into philosophy. 956 01:00:30.679 --> 01:00:37.119 But part of it is Iran thinks of morality for 957 01:00:37.199 --> 01:00:41.760 good or bad, as having causal power. That so that 958 01:00:42.239 --> 01:00:47.159 understand people's actions at an individual level, to understand the 959 01:00:47.199 --> 01:00:50.960 way cultures work. To understand something like the Trump administration, 960 01:00:51.400 --> 01:00:56.079 you have to think in moral terms about what is happening. 961 01:00:56.159 --> 01:00:58.039 I mean part of what we were talking about earlier 962 01:00:58.480 --> 01:01:02.719 about that there's an element of now of people who've 963 01:01:02.760 --> 01:01:06.280 sold their souls around him versus what there was before. 964 01:01:06.480 --> 01:01:09.920 That's thinking in moral terms of what is the dynamic 965 01:01:10.039 --> 01:01:13.320 between him and the people he surrounded himself with and 966 01:01:12.800 --> 01:01:19.519 so on, And that most people don't think of morality 967 01:01:19.559 --> 01:01:25.480 as having a causal impact, and that I think they 968 01:01:25.559 --> 01:01:27.960 just missed so much of what's going on in reality 969 01:01:28.239 --> 01:01:32.559 because of that. So that's the area that I'm most 970 01:01:32.760 --> 01:01:37.000 interested in and think a lot about what I'll be 971 01:01:37.079 --> 01:01:40.719 talking about. An oatcome likely will touch on some aspects 972 01:01:40.840 --> 01:01:41.119 of this. 973 01:01:43.960 --> 01:01:45.239 Let's see Evan. 974 01:01:46.719 --> 01:01:46.920 Oh. 975 01:01:46.960 --> 01:01:49.800 This relates to something I said earlier at the two 976 01:01:49.880 --> 01:01:54.400 PM show. YB mentioned that Cannice Owen and so on 977 01:01:54.960 --> 01:02:00.519 maybe suffering from acute stupidity annoinsanity. I'm used the skeptical 978 01:02:00.559 --> 01:02:03.480 of blaming things on stupidity, but in recent years I'm 979 01:02:03.519 --> 01:02:06.920 wondering if this is a real problem. And I'll just 980 01:02:07.000 --> 01:02:09.480 say what I mean by stupidity is not that she 981 01:02:09.599 --> 01:02:13.400 has some innate inability, you know, her mind. You know, 982 01:02:13.480 --> 01:02:15.840 she's she's she's got a low IQ or something like that. 983 01:02:15.880 --> 01:02:18.880 What I mean by stupidity is she's not using whatever 984 01:02:18.920 --> 01:02:23.840 she has. That that that she has embraced a pattern 985 01:02:23.920 --> 01:02:29.400 of non thought. Uh. That is that makes her stupid. 986 01:02:29.519 --> 01:02:32.760 That the divorces are from the facts of reality. Divorces 987 01:02:32.800 --> 01:02:35.719 are from being able to see real causes. I don't 988 01:02:35.719 --> 01:02:39.679 know if you saw her latest thing about uh, you know, 989 01:02:39.880 --> 01:02:45.960 NASA and uh and space. Uh, just a Satanic conspiracy. 990 01:02:48.400 --> 01:02:51.440 But but here's a lion there was. There was really amazing, right, 991 01:02:51.440 --> 01:02:55.679 she says, it really is, you know, from the Church 992 01:02:55.719 --> 01:02:59.079 of Satan or whatever, because the whole purpose. 993 01:03:00.159 --> 01:03:01.920 Is to make us believe in man. 994 01:03:05.280 --> 01:03:10.440 And she's right, you know, but it's it's so she 995 01:03:10.480 --> 01:03:13.199 doesn't believe in the moon landing. She says, how could 996 01:03:13.199 --> 01:03:16.000 they call? She said, how could they call back to Earth? 997 01:03:16.199 --> 01:03:20.840 There were no cell phones back then. So that's proof 998 01:03:20.880 --> 01:03:23.840 that it's a conspiracy. I mean, you. 999 01:03:23.880 --> 01:03:25.440 Gotta laugh at how stupid it is. 1000 01:03:25.679 --> 01:03:28.480 But it's again, she's not she's she doesn't have she 1001 01:03:29.800 --> 01:03:32.119 I don't know how small or not she is, but 1002 01:03:33.079 --> 01:03:36.199 that is just a mind that's gone. It's it's been 1003 01:03:36.639 --> 01:03:45.599 so corrupted by non facts and and uh and by evasion, evasion, evasion, evasion. 1004 01:03:47.920 --> 01:03:51.679 Yeah, yeah, I've stopped even looking at. 1005 01:03:52.760 --> 01:03:57.639 I told everybody today, I said, now I do candice 1006 01:03:57.760 --> 01:04:03.280 on corners like things for entertainment. There's no would beyond 1007 01:04:03.280 --> 01:04:05.840 the point of criticizing, you know, the fact that this 1008 01:04:05.960 --> 01:04:07.519 represents the right to something like that. 1009 01:04:07.639 --> 01:04:09.679 Now it's just so stupid. It's just entertainment. 1010 01:04:10.519 --> 01:04:21.320 So Andrew asks, why is it rational to be selfish? 1011 01:04:21.679 --> 01:04:28.599 Because it's the essence of morality. So the the selfishness 1012 01:04:28.719 --> 01:04:33.559 just means the pursuit in moral terms, it means the 1013 01:04:33.599 --> 01:04:38.199 pursuit of one's self interest, of one's life, of one's happiness. 1014 01:04:38.639 --> 01:04:44.880 And that that the whole perspective in objectivism is where 1015 01:04:44.920 --> 01:04:49.079 do values come from. They come from the fact that 1016 01:04:49.119 --> 01:04:51.920 you're a living thing that has to reach certain goals 1017 01:04:52.360 --> 01:04:58.000 to stay alive, to maintain yourself in the existence, to 1018 01:04:58.039 --> 01:05:01.199 maintain yourself in the world, and to prosper in the world. 1019 01:05:01.440 --> 01:05:06.199 So the whole dedication to selfishness is a dedication to 1020 01:05:06.320 --> 01:05:09.559 what's in your self interest, what will enable you to 1021 01:05:09.760 --> 01:05:14.320 thrive in the world. And from that perspective, what rationality 1022 01:05:14.599 --> 01:05:18.400 is for human beings, our minds, our ability to think 1023 01:05:18.639 --> 01:05:21.519 is our way to thrive in the world. So like, 1024 01:05:21.559 --> 01:05:25.239 what is it? Why is it rational to be selfish? 1025 01:05:25.480 --> 01:05:29.199 Because that's the goal that you need to reach and 1026 01:05:29.719 --> 01:05:31.119 thinking it's your means to reach it. 1027 01:05:33.280 --> 01:05:38.360 Ye, Tom says here Flonka and you on millions should 1028 01:05:38.360 --> 01:05:38.880 be tuning in. 1029 01:05:39.320 --> 01:05:40.159 Yes, they should be. 1030 01:05:41.119 --> 01:05:44.679 Uh It say says for income as a professional jazz 1031 01:05:45.599 --> 01:05:49.559 a guitarist, educata, how can I apply objectivist principles to 1032 01:05:49.599 --> 01:05:56.000 evaluate improvised music or music without lyrics? Are the objectivist 1033 01:05:56.079 --> 01:05:58.119 resources beyond the Romantic Manifesto? 1034 01:06:01.480 --> 01:06:04.039 Not that I know of. So I know there's other 1035 01:06:04.159 --> 01:06:11.360 objectivists who are thinking about music how it works. I 1036 01:06:11.400 --> 01:06:14.719 don't know of anybody's I haven't looked at anyone's work 1037 01:06:15.519 --> 01:06:19.800 in enough detail to have firsthand knowledge or first hand 1038 01:06:20.039 --> 01:06:24.280 view of it. But I would say this is a 1039 01:06:24.519 --> 01:06:30.679 very difficult field. And when you read what Iran's hypothesis 1040 01:06:30.760 --> 01:06:34.599 is in the Romantic Manifesto about how music works, it's 1041 01:06:34.679 --> 01:06:41.840 a it's a rich but complex hypothesis about how it's worked. 1042 01:06:41.840 --> 01:06:45.360 And she says it would require the integration of different 1043 01:06:45.480 --> 01:06:50.880 fields and what's happening in different fields and that integration 1044 01:06:51.599 --> 01:06:54.360 is different. It would be difficult if you had good 1045 01:06:54.360 --> 01:06:56.880 people in those fields to try to think of the 1046 01:06:56.920 --> 01:07:03.480 integration of the physiology of sound and sound of so 1047 01:07:03.639 --> 01:07:10.719 the whole auditory system and the way the mind works, 1048 01:07:10.760 --> 01:07:17.079 of values and emotions work. It's it's so this it's 1049 01:07:17.159 --> 01:07:23.039 a difficult thing to even have a hypothesis about. So 1050 01:07:23.159 --> 01:07:26.239 it's not like if someone spent but half a year 1051 01:07:26.320 --> 01:07:28.199 working and then they can figure it out. This is 1052 01:07:28.280 --> 01:07:31.559 a is a I think like a would be a 1053 01:07:31.599 --> 01:07:36.840 lifetime project and even then, like there's a real possibility 1054 01:07:36.880 --> 01:07:37.320 of failure. 1055 01:07:37.920 --> 01:07:45.840 Yeah, but I think, he asks, I mean, now the 1056 01:07:45.840 --> 01:07:49.400 objectives beensible to valuate and provide music and music without lyrics, 1057 01:07:50.440 --> 01:07:54.840 I don't think they are in existence, and they might 1058 01:07:54.880 --> 01:07:57.400 be principles one day. They wouldn't be objectivists because they 1059 01:07:57.400 --> 01:07:59.760 wouldn't be an advanced but they would be. They would be 1060 01:08:00.079 --> 01:08:02.800 at some point somebody will come up with principles to 1061 01:08:02.840 --> 01:08:04.239 be able to value in the fact that it doesn't 1062 01:08:04.280 --> 01:08:08.599 have lyrics is what makes it challenging. Maybe, but it 1063 01:08:08.639 --> 01:08:11.400 doesn't rule it out. And although even lyrics, how do 1064 01:08:11.440 --> 01:08:14.760 you evaluate objectively? The quality of lyrics is a hard 1065 01:08:14.880 --> 01:08:19.439 enough thing even within you know, within prose. So the 1066 01:08:19.439 --> 01:08:23.560 whole field of aesthetics is way underdeveloped. I'm kind I've 1067 01:08:23.600 --> 01:08:26.680 talked about this in the past, way underdeveloped in terms 1068 01:08:26.680 --> 01:08:27.439 of the principles. 1069 01:08:27.760 --> 01:08:29.640 Ironman is giving us a great. 1070 01:08:29.359 --> 01:08:33.479 Blueprint for literature mostly, but there's still a lot of 1071 01:08:33.520 --> 01:08:34.960 work for the other arts. 1072 01:08:35.680 --> 01:08:39.359 Yeah, and there's a way to take both what she's 1073 01:08:39.399 --> 01:08:45.720 saying and sort of the field of aesthetics as much 1074 01:08:45.880 --> 01:08:49.319 simpler than it actually is. So one people thing they 1075 01:08:49.359 --> 01:08:52.439 take for mine rand which is not right, and music 1076 01:08:52.600 --> 01:08:58.359 is part of the concrete of why it can't be right. 1077 01:08:58.640 --> 01:09:04.119 That are representational. What it's supposed to do is represent, Yeah, 1078 01:09:04.760 --> 01:09:09.680 represent the world, but represent doesn't mean sort of you 1079 01:09:10.199 --> 01:09:13.520 you want a copy of it. Part of this sound 1080 01:09:14.079 --> 01:09:17.680 is you're not trying to copy what bird songs are 1081 01:09:17.840 --> 01:09:20.319 or things like that. It is the part of her 1082 01:09:20.600 --> 01:09:23.439 hypothesis is it's a creation of a new mental entity, 1083 01:09:24.880 --> 01:09:27.720 and you have to think a lot about that. But 1084 01:09:27.800 --> 01:09:31.359 it's not like we're trying to reproduce something we heard 1085 01:09:31.439 --> 01:09:37.199 or something like that. And so just to think of 1086 01:09:37.239 --> 01:09:41.800 it in those terms, it's difficult to think about what 1087 01:09:41.840 --> 01:09:47.399 that means. And music is not a thing that copies 1088 01:09:47.680 --> 01:09:50.600 in the way one might think of painting as copying 1089 01:09:50.640 --> 01:09:52.920 your visual world. I don't think that, in the end 1090 01:09:53.000 --> 01:09:57.640 is one painting does either, But it's more plausible to think, well, 1091 01:09:57.680 --> 01:10:00.920 that's something that what it's doing, but that's not what 1092 01:10:01.039 --> 01:10:01.760 music is doing. 1093 01:10:05.279 --> 01:10:09.640 Michael asks, I think an organized protest in Boston this 1094 01:10:09.800 --> 01:10:13.039 okon makes sense for a movement to build a witness 1095 01:10:13.279 --> 01:10:19.199 and stand up to the constitutional crisis thoughts and organized 1096 01:10:19.239 --> 01:10:23.720 process protest. 1097 01:10:27.000 --> 01:10:33.039 For most protests, it's an issue of numbers. I'm skeptical 1098 01:10:33.079 --> 01:10:38.239 of protests in general, but for them to have some impact, 1099 01:10:39.199 --> 01:10:42.520 it's an issue of numbers, and we're not going to 1100 01:10:42.600 --> 01:10:47.199 get numbers that will impress anybody. And if we did 1101 01:10:47.399 --> 01:10:52.119 some these small kinds of protests where they block a 1102 01:10:52.199 --> 01:10:55.439 bridge or something like that, if we did that, people 1103 01:10:55.680 --> 01:10:59.800 should rightly look at it as there's got to be 1104 01:10:59.840 --> 01:11:03.000 some being wrong with you and your viewpoint. If you 1105 01:11:03.039 --> 01:11:05.640 think like I can stop everybody if from going to 1106 01:11:05.720 --> 01:11:09.840 and fro by taking over a bridge or something like that, that's 1107 01:11:09.319 --> 01:11:14.039 how you get media coverage. But or real Americans should 1108 01:11:14.079 --> 01:11:16.840 think there's something wrong with you if you think you 1109 01:11:16.960 --> 01:11:22.399 have that power to stop everybody else. So I agree 1110 01:11:22.479 --> 01:11:27.720 that we should be arguing these issues, but physical protests 1111 01:11:27.920 --> 01:11:31.479 is not an argument we should be drawing attention to 1112 01:11:31.560 --> 01:11:33.680 these kinds of issues. I don't think it's legitimate to 1113 01:11:33.680 --> 01:11:35.560 do it by protest. 1114 01:11:35.920 --> 01:11:38.640 Yeah, Michael thinks we can get five thousand people out 1115 01:11:38.920 --> 01:11:44.079 and that that would create a sture. But even five 1116 01:11:44.079 --> 01:11:48.479 thousand is not that much, and I doubt we could. Yeah, 1117 01:11:48.520 --> 01:11:55.119 I doubt we could get five thousand people. Doodle Bunny 1118 01:11:55.920 --> 01:11:59.560 usually asks obnoxious questions, so he says, why should we 1119 01:11:59.640 --> 01:12:04.159 keep going if they couldn't even stop a clown like Trump? 1120 01:12:05.399 --> 01:12:08.640 It shows objectivism has no influence in the culture, And 1121 01:12:08.680 --> 01:12:09.760 whose fault is that? 1122 01:12:14.399 --> 01:12:17.079 Yeah, So I don't think of it at all like that. 1123 01:12:17.359 --> 01:12:22.920 I don't. I don't think any small movement you're gonna 1124 01:12:22.960 --> 01:12:29.880 think what they could do is impact the presidential election. 1125 01:12:30.760 --> 01:12:35.600 That would be true of movements and groups on the 1126 01:12:35.640 --> 01:12:42.359 so called left. They don't have a small a viewpoint 1127 01:12:42.399 --> 01:12:46.119 that still has not that many adherents. What's gonna happen 1128 01:12:46.279 --> 01:12:50.600 is not Yeah, they're gonna impact the presidential election. So 1129 01:12:50.720 --> 01:12:53.800 if that were one standard, like I will only give 1130 01:12:53.880 --> 01:12:57.600 to things our only support causes that I think can 1131 01:12:57.640 --> 01:13:01.680 have that kind of impact. Then you can only support 1132 01:13:01.720 --> 01:13:07.039 things that are relatively mainstream, because it's only the things 1133 01:13:07.079 --> 01:13:10.239 that are relatively mainstream that could have make that kind 1134 01:13:10.239 --> 01:13:14.039 of difference. I think of it as we're an organization 1135 01:13:14.159 --> 01:13:18.880 with a longer term mission, and it has to be 1136 01:13:18.920 --> 01:13:22.640 a longer term mission because yeah, we eventually want to 1137 01:13:22.680 --> 01:13:29.159 see these ideas have real cultural impact and changing the 1138 01:13:29.199 --> 01:13:32.119 direction of the culture. But that can't happen in five 1139 01:13:32.199 --> 01:13:35.720 years or of ten years, Like you can't what I 1140 01:13:35.760 --> 01:13:41.039 was talking about earlier about how even students who are 1141 01:13:41.079 --> 01:13:44.560 potentially interested in these ideas haven't been exposed to them. 1142 01:13:44.560 --> 01:13:47.399 It's on how are you going to have an impact 1143 01:13:47.560 --> 01:13:50.000 on how they're going to vote in five years when 1144 01:13:50.039 --> 01:13:52.520 they don't know anything even about these ideas, And so 1145 01:13:53.079 --> 01:13:55.920 the real work, but it has to be long term 1146 01:13:55.960 --> 01:13:59.680 because it's you slowly get the ideas more and more 1147 01:13:59.680 --> 01:14:03.920 into the educational system. And I think compared to twenty 1148 01:14:04.000 --> 01:14:07.119 years ago, for sure, iron Rand and the ideas have 1149 01:14:07.239 --> 01:14:10.359 more prominence than they had, but there's still nowhere close 1150 01:14:10.720 --> 01:14:15.199 to having the kind of cultural impact that one anybody 1151 01:14:15.199 --> 01:14:17.640 who thinks the ideas are true hopes that they will 1152 01:14:17.680 --> 01:14:20.840 have in the future, but it's not like the near future. 1153 01:14:21.960 --> 01:14:24.680 Yeah, and as we said, you need thousands of intellectuals 1154 01:14:26.760 --> 01:14:29.279 if you do, if you do a just the math 1155 01:14:29.359 --> 01:14:32.479 on what that will entail in terms of how many 1156 01:14:32.479 --> 01:14:34.920 people you have to get to to get thousand of intellectuals, 1157 01:14:34.960 --> 01:14:37.199 and how long you have to train them and get 1158 01:14:37.239 --> 01:14:38.840 them out there and for them to get any kind 1159 01:14:38.840 --> 01:14:44.479 of reasonable job and reasonable influenced this is you know, many, many, 1160 01:14:44.520 --> 01:14:47.199 many decades. This is not This is not something that 1161 01:14:47.239 --> 01:14:50.199 happens in the show run. Eric says in the chat 1162 01:14:50.319 --> 01:14:54.279 ninety years since Anthem, Yeah, you know, it probably takes 1163 01:14:54.279 --> 01:14:56.800 a couple of centuries. This is not This is not 1164 01:14:56.960 --> 01:15:04.199 something that happens quickly, and particularly given how revolutionary objectivism 1165 01:15:04.319 --> 01:15:06.159 really is in a sense. 1166 01:15:05.920 --> 01:15:08.239 Of it's rethinking everything. 1167 01:15:09.600 --> 01:15:13.479 It's not about politics, this particular issue in politics. It's 1168 01:15:13.479 --> 01:15:15.920 about the way you think about politics from the ground up. 1169 01:15:16.000 --> 01:15:20.079 We think about politics completely differently than everybody else, and 1170 01:15:20.479 --> 01:15:22.520 it's going to take a long time to make that 1171 01:15:22.680 --> 01:15:24.399 change in the culture in terms of how people think 1172 01:15:24.439 --> 01:15:25.560 about these things. 1173 01:15:26.600 --> 01:15:30.520 Yeah, and my view of this kind of thing is 1174 01:15:31.640 --> 01:15:34.239 you try to do it as quickly as you can. 1175 01:15:35.039 --> 01:15:40.479 And it might be true that in the modern world, 1176 01:15:40.520 --> 01:15:44.800 with modern technology, modern education, the way ideas can spread 1177 01:15:44.880 --> 01:15:48.159 that it can happen more quickly, but when you have 1178 01:15:48.239 --> 01:15:51.359 to have at least as a grain of salt that 1179 01:15:51.720 --> 01:15:59.119 historically there's never been a rapid positive philosophic change they 1180 01:15:59.560 --> 01:16:02.319 like third year or something like that. You get all 1181 01:16:02.319 --> 01:16:05.960 these good ideas that have taken over. It just it 1182 01:16:06.000 --> 01:16:08.439 doesn't happen like that. And I think there's a reason 1183 01:16:08.520 --> 01:16:11.319 why it doesn't happen. It's harder to build than it 1184 01:16:11.359 --> 01:16:12.039 is to destroy. 1185 01:16:13.319 --> 01:16:16.199 Yeah, we can think of Thomas Aquinas to the creation 1186 01:16:16.239 --> 01:16:20.640 of America as one lengthy intellectual movement of being Aristotle 1187 01:16:20.680 --> 01:16:21.439 back to the West. 1188 01:16:21.680 --> 01:16:24.880 That's five hundred years. 1189 01:16:25.479 --> 01:16:26.319 Something like that. 1190 01:16:26.560 --> 01:16:29.079 Six hundred years, yeah, five hundred plus. 1191 01:16:29.880 --> 01:16:34.119 So it's all right, moulten splendor. 1192 01:16:34.960 --> 01:16:39.800 Why are the Trump magas supporters repeating the lies? Do 1193 01:16:39.880 --> 01:16:42.800 they not know or do they not want to know 1194 01:16:42.880 --> 01:16:43.319 the truth? 1195 01:16:46.720 --> 01:16:50.119 Well, you have to delve into a little bit what 1196 01:16:50.279 --> 01:16:55.880 the lies are. But I think there's a big element 1197 01:16:56.520 --> 01:16:59.880 that they don't want to know. But this is I 1198 01:17:00.119 --> 01:17:05.039 don't think this is there's a way that the you 1199 01:17:05.119 --> 01:17:09.520 can single out the MAGA or the Trump supporters or 1200 01:17:09.560 --> 01:17:12.640 Trump's base, however you want to think about it as 1201 01:17:13.399 --> 01:17:18.119 there's some incredible aberration and that nobody else is liked this. 1202 01:17:18.319 --> 01:17:22.199 I really do think we live in a tribal age. 1203 01:17:23.119 --> 01:17:28.920 Part of what the Trump phenomenon showed is it's more 1204 01:17:29.239 --> 01:17:33.000 tribal than one way of thought. That that's one of 1205 01:17:33.039 --> 01:17:37.720 the lessons that I take. If you asked this so 1206 01:17:37.920 --> 01:17:43.279 to take some equivalent of the MAGA crowd around COVID, 1207 01:17:44.000 --> 01:17:47.600 however you want to put it, the progressive, the left, 1208 01:17:48.600 --> 01:17:51.159 the but just sort of the supporters of it, that 1209 01:17:51.600 --> 01:17:54.760 all of this had to be right, and you wear 1210 01:17:54.800 --> 01:17:58.760 a mask even when you're alone walking outside and so on, 1211 01:17:58.840 --> 01:18:01.800 and yeah, that's it, and then you'll berate somebody else 1212 01:18:02.359 --> 01:18:06.520 who doesn't do this, and things like really, when I'm outside, 1213 01:18:06.560 --> 01:18:08.720 I've got to wear a mat and there's people are 1214 01:18:08.800 --> 01:18:11.720 fifteen feet away. It's and if you think of it 1215 01:18:11.760 --> 01:18:15.600 as it was sort of I think of that, it's 1216 01:18:15.680 --> 01:18:20.399 exactly like Trump's space. And there's an element of the 1217 01:18:20.399 --> 01:18:23.319 more you hammer on it, the more you don't have 1218 01:18:23.399 --> 01:18:25.680 to think about like really, I'm saying you've got to 1219 01:18:25.720 --> 01:18:28.119 wear a mask even like I saw people driving and 1220 01:18:28.159 --> 01:18:32.359 find themselves or the mask on it, and it's a 1221 01:18:32.439 --> 01:18:37.159 way of not thinking about it is sort of just 1222 01:18:37.239 --> 01:18:41.119 repeating it and often berating other people. Like the proof 1223 01:18:41.159 --> 01:18:43.199 of how loyal you are to it is, Look, I'm 1224 01:18:43.199 --> 01:18:46.119 going after the pre and that's. Yeah, you don't really 1225 01:18:46.159 --> 01:18:47.840 want to know and you don't really want to think 1226 01:18:47.880 --> 01:18:49.760 about it. But if you think of it as just 1227 01:18:50.439 --> 01:18:52.920 like it's the mega people who do this and nobody 1228 01:18:52.920 --> 01:18:56.720 else does this, I think you're just not you don't 1229 01:18:56.760 --> 01:19:00.399 really you're not really seeing the phenomenon and you're not 1230 01:19:00.720 --> 01:19:09.439 then seeing But unfortunately it's partly it's a little more depressing. 1231 01:19:09.960 --> 01:19:13.640 It's not just the mega people. The I don't know 1232 01:19:13.880 --> 01:19:17.960 if because I think this is very revealing of So 1233 01:19:18.039 --> 01:19:20.920 there were a lot of I mean, like a sizeable 1234 01:19:21.039 --> 01:19:25.399 enough percentage of people voted in this way that AOC 1235 01:19:25.680 --> 01:19:28.800 had to do go on like a podcast or whatever, 1236 01:19:29.319 --> 01:19:34.359 a TikTok of people who voted for Trump and her. Yeah, 1237 01:19:35.840 --> 01:19:39.399 and to me, that fits completely, Like I'm not surprised 1238 01:19:39.640 --> 01:19:42.680 at all that there's a lot of voters like that, 1239 01:19:42.840 --> 01:19:48.520 But that's they both appeal to more tribal elements in people, 1240 01:19:48.960 --> 01:19:52.560 and yeah, so you have to I think, yes, there's 1241 01:19:52.600 --> 01:19:55.960 a for sure, an element of their trying to convince themselves. 1242 01:19:56.439 --> 01:19:58.680 But it's not just the mega people who do this. 1243 01:20:00.000 --> 01:20:04.319 I just saw a graph about people's attitude towards trade 1244 01:20:04.920 --> 01:20:09.920 by party affiliation, and so a few years ago or 1245 01:20:09.960 --> 01:20:14.159 two years ago, basically twenty percent of Americans were supported 1246 01:20:14.199 --> 01:20:17.640 free trade, twenty percent of Democrats, twenty percent of Republicans 1247 01:20:17.960 --> 01:20:23.159 supported free trade. And since Trump was elected, fewer Republicans 1248 01:20:23.159 --> 01:20:25.079 support free trade. But you know, it went down from 1249 01:20:25.119 --> 01:20:27.600 twenty percent maybe to fifteen or ten percent something like that. 1250 01:20:28.039 --> 01:20:32.399 But among Democrats now seventy percent of Democrats support free trade. 1251 01:20:33.119 --> 01:20:35.439 Now you tell me that they've gone through some kind 1252 01:20:35.439 --> 01:20:39.239 of understanding of the value of trade over the last 1253 01:20:39.279 --> 01:20:42.399 three months that justifies them all being supported as of 1254 01:20:42.439 --> 01:20:42.840 free trade. 1255 01:20:42.840 --> 01:20:45.159 It's just the tribal thing. It's the anti Trump. 1256 01:20:45.560 --> 01:20:50.079 So Trump is anti free trade, we support it. 1257 01:20:50.079 --> 01:20:57.239 It's yeah. And they'll often because I've met unfortunately people 1258 01:20:57.520 --> 01:21:00.560 like this who and if you point out, like haven't 1259 01:21:00.560 --> 01:21:05.800 you just changed sides, they'll say something about trade and 1260 01:21:05.880 --> 01:21:09.600 why globalization is good. But if you ask, is that 1261 01:21:09.680 --> 01:21:12.479 really the reason they believe what they're saying now and 1262 01:21:12.520 --> 01:21:14.920 they hold the position no, it so it's much more 1263 01:21:15.119 --> 01:21:18.680 they're trying to tell themselves a story that I haven't 1264 01:21:18.720 --> 01:21:22.279 just changed sides because my tribes changed. It's no, there's 1265 01:21:22.359 --> 01:21:26.880 reasons for it, but those reasons aren't actually governing their thinking. 1266 01:21:27.319 --> 01:21:31.960 And so that's the sense in which, yeah, they're pretending 1267 01:21:32.039 --> 01:21:34.680 to themselves, not just to other people, to themselves. 1268 01:21:34.720 --> 01:21:42.720 They're pretending, as Oham says, Douglas Murrie on Wrogan was 1269 01:21:42.720 --> 01:21:43.760 a breath of fresh air. 1270 01:21:43.800 --> 01:21:46.880 I don't know if you saw the Douglas Murray Dave Smith. 1271 01:21:47.119 --> 01:21:49.199 I haven't watched. I've seen some clips from it, but 1272 01:21:49.239 --> 01:21:50.520 I haven't watched the who. 1273 01:21:50.640 --> 01:21:52.760 He says he's quoting Douglas Murray. 1274 01:21:52.800 --> 01:21:53.600 I guess you can't. 1275 01:21:53.960 --> 01:21:57.039 You can't time travel, but you can travel. It's quite easy. 1276 01:21:58.039 --> 01:22:01.680 That's when Dave Smith admitted to never being anyway. Really, uh, 1277 01:22:01.960 --> 01:22:04.960 do you see a pro reason coalition forming in the 1278 01:22:05.000 --> 01:22:08.479 culture in response to the idiocy of the right and 1279 01:22:08.560 --> 01:22:09.000 the left? 1280 01:22:12.680 --> 01:22:22.520 No? So I think there are better individuals in on 1281 01:22:23.840 --> 01:22:28.359 certain issues, and Murray's really good in regard to Israel 1282 01:22:28.880 --> 01:22:34.960 and and the the pro Hamas sentiment in the West, 1283 01:22:35.399 --> 01:22:40.880 But there's they would have to for really, you would 1284 01:22:40.880 --> 01:22:45.840 have to coalesce around the philosophy, and they don't. So 1285 01:22:46.000 --> 01:22:49.279 this is if you what was it that you can 1286 01:22:49.319 --> 01:22:56.319 think of it as the sort of militant or radical atheist, 1287 01:22:56.359 --> 01:22:59.039 and then you have the intellectual dark web. And it's 1288 01:22:59.039 --> 01:23:06.319 again be put as well, they're responding to the whatever irrationality, mysticism, 1289 01:23:06.439 --> 01:23:09.319 lunacy that they see all over the place and on 1290 01:23:09.399 --> 01:23:13.159 both political sides and so on. But it's too much. 1291 01:23:13.520 --> 01:23:16.960 What's uniting them is opposition to something. And if you 1292 01:23:17.000 --> 01:23:20.760 ask what is it that they deeply have in common, 1293 01:23:22.239 --> 01:23:26.119 it's not even that they have a shared understanding of rationality. 1294 01:23:26.399 --> 01:23:29.479 Is religion rational not like belief in but that you 1295 01:23:29.560 --> 01:23:33.600 need religion? They'll split in regard to that, they split 1296 01:23:33.640 --> 01:23:38.119 in regard how to think about science and the pandemic, 1297 01:23:38.239 --> 01:23:41.239 they split in regard to trumpet. And that's because there's 1298 01:23:41.279 --> 01:23:48.680 not a shared positive vision and it's easy to relatively 1299 01:23:49.199 --> 01:23:55.760 easy to spot irrationality. What actual rationality looks like is 1300 01:23:55.800 --> 01:24:00.600 the much harder question. That's what objectivism is about crucial 1301 01:24:00.600 --> 01:24:05.199 and objectivism is to have a real perspective on rationality. 1302 01:24:05.760 --> 01:24:08.399 You have to see it not just as cognitive as 1303 01:24:08.560 --> 01:24:12.119 but as normative, and you have to integrate your ideas 1304 01:24:12.119 --> 01:24:18.520 and your values, and most thinkers cannot do that because 1305 01:24:18.560 --> 01:24:20.960 they have a conventional view of values which does not 1306 01:24:21.079 --> 01:24:24.439 inter They have some form of altruism slash utilitarism which 1307 01:24:24.520 --> 01:24:28.840 does not integrate with reason. So you get So you're 1308 01:24:28.880 --> 01:24:37.000 not gonna get this coalescing around a positive vision of 1309 01:24:37.159 --> 01:24:43.399 reason governing people's thinking and action. Yeah. 1310 01:24:43.439 --> 01:24:46.439 I mean we've seen it so many times, the appearance 1311 01:24:46.600 --> 01:24:50.479 of some kind of coalition and it can't survive because, 1312 01:24:50.520 --> 01:24:53.039 I mean, the Tea Party was an anti movement, the 1313 01:24:53.159 --> 01:24:55.560 Selectio doc Web was an antime movement, and they just 1314 01:24:55.720 --> 01:24:59.720 fall apart very quickly because they don't stand for anything positive. 1315 01:25:00.119 --> 01:25:03.039 And while I love some of what Douglas movie says, 1316 01:25:04.239 --> 01:25:08.039 we don't agree on unimportant issues, on really important issues, 1317 01:25:08.079 --> 01:25:11.000 particularly in the positive He I think he clearly considers 1318 01:25:11.079 --> 01:25:20.840 himself a cultural Christian, like like Dawkins, and that's a problem. 1319 01:25:20.920 --> 01:25:25.520 Yeah. So though I was happy to see this, I 1320 01:25:25.520 --> 01:25:28.600 don't know if you've seen Dawkins walked back a little 1321 01:25:28.640 --> 01:25:32.920 bit Christian. Yeah, that I probably shouldn't have. And but 1322 01:25:33.079 --> 01:25:37.479 what's revealing, Like, I think he's right to walk it 1323 01:25:37.560 --> 01:25:41.319 back that he didn't actually mean what he said, but 1324 01:25:41.520 --> 01:25:45.000 he can't he doesn't know what he means that's the thing. 1325 01:25:45.319 --> 01:25:48.840 Yeah, I mean, this is the key about I'm I 1326 01:25:48.840 --> 01:25:49.760 think I'm doing a talk. 1327 01:25:50.560 --> 01:25:52.880 I'm gonna talk it. I think, why am I doing this? 1328 01:25:58.680 --> 01:26:00.560 Oh yeah, I'm making our center and next week I'm 1329 01:26:00.560 --> 01:26:03.000 doing it next week at Mechanow Center. 1330 01:26:04.000 --> 01:26:05.239 About Western civilization. 1331 01:26:05.920 --> 01:26:10.840 And you know the Mechanow Center, they're quite religious, and 1332 01:26:10.880 --> 01:26:13.239 you know, the whole point of the talk is going 1333 01:26:13.319 --> 01:26:17.239 to be, Yeah, it looks like I support Western civilization 1334 01:26:17.319 --> 01:26:21.039 and you support Western civilization. But we're not supporting the 1335 01:26:21.039 --> 01:26:22.039 same things. 1336 01:26:22.199 --> 01:26:23.479 It's not the same thing. 1337 01:26:23.520 --> 01:26:26.760 And we have to if we don't define what it 1338 01:26:26.840 --> 01:26:28.800 is that we actually supporting, if we don't define what 1339 01:26:28.880 --> 01:26:36.920 Western civilization is properly, then then you know, the good 1340 01:26:36.960 --> 01:26:40.520 in Western civilization is going to die out because to them, 1341 01:26:40.560 --> 01:26:43.079 Western civilization means Christianity. It just does. 1342 01:26:43.319 --> 01:26:44.119 And I think to. 1343 01:26:45.239 --> 01:26:49.000 Marii's better than that. But to a large extent from Mari, 1344 01:26:49.159 --> 01:26:51.439 I think, and I've seen him with Holland, who thinks 1345 01:26:51.479 --> 01:26:56.720 everything is Christianity basically, you know, support that position. I 1346 01:26:56.760 --> 01:26:59.399 don't think he quite holds that, But I think Keith 1347 01:26:59.439 --> 01:27:04.520 thinks that Christianity plays a huge positive role in Western civilization. 1348 01:27:04.640 --> 01:27:07.319 And you know, we think it plays a huge negative 1349 01:27:07.359 --> 01:27:13.600 role in Western civilizations. So, yeah, I had that at Clemson. 1350 01:27:13.720 --> 01:27:19.199 I talked about that it Clemson and the students, very 1351 01:27:19.199 --> 01:27:22.039 bright students, but you could see the cognitive dissonance. 1352 01:27:22.720 --> 01:27:23.880 They just couldn't. 1353 01:27:24.359 --> 01:27:26.399 They agreed with a lot of what I was saying. 1354 01:27:26.880 --> 01:27:29.600 But then as soon as it came to Christianity, Western 1355 01:27:29.640 --> 01:27:32.399 civilization is not Christian, you know. 1356 01:27:33.119 --> 01:27:33.600 It was. 1357 01:27:35.000 --> 01:27:38.479 A real struggle for them. All the questions almost it 1358 01:27:38.560 --> 01:27:43.319 was talk nominally was in Israel Palestine, and but almost 1359 01:27:43.359 --> 01:27:46.399 all the questions were about Western civilization in Christianity, and 1360 01:27:47.159 --> 01:27:51.439 it was fascinating, and the faculty were amused as well. 1361 01:27:51.520 --> 01:27:55.840 So it was it was a conversation over dinner afterwards too. Right, 1362 01:27:55.920 --> 01:28:00.239 Daniel says, any prediction on the future of America are 1363 01:28:00.239 --> 01:28:06.439 we are we destined to some form of authoritarianism. 1364 01:28:06.600 --> 01:28:15.560 I don't think we're destined. And so it's both, I think, 1365 01:28:15.880 --> 01:28:20.319 theoretically but also practically important that one not think of 1366 01:28:20.359 --> 01:28:22.039 it as destined. 1367 01:28:22.640 --> 01:28:22.800 That. 1368 01:28:23.119 --> 01:28:26.479 So Iraan was adamant. She was adamant even about how 1369 01:28:26.560 --> 01:28:30.920 hard it is to make predictions, let alone that it's like, 1370 01:28:31.479 --> 01:28:34.960 it's obvious that this is the only outcome that's possible, 1371 01:28:35.279 --> 01:28:39.479 but even like to think what's likely. She thought, it's 1372 01:28:39.640 --> 01:28:44.039 very difficult to do that, and that if there's a 1373 01:28:45.159 --> 01:28:50.680 if you don't have evidence that this is inevitable. And again, 1374 01:28:50.720 --> 01:28:53.920 so it is very, very very hard to have evidence 1375 01:28:53.920 --> 01:28:58.039 that it's inevitable. That then you have to act and 1376 01:28:58.079 --> 01:29:00.880 you have to fight. So there's a way in which 1377 01:29:01.199 --> 01:29:05.640 if thinking, oh, like we're destined for authoritarianism, it's a 1378 01:29:05.680 --> 01:29:08.159 self fulfilling prophecy. It's like, what can you do? So 1379 01:29:08.239 --> 01:29:11.119 don't do anything? Like what and yes, so if nobody 1380 01:29:11.640 --> 01:29:16.720 does anything to fight, then we are but we're not destined. 1381 01:29:17.239 --> 01:29:22.079 It's that you've given up in effect. But so no, 1382 01:29:22.199 --> 01:29:28.000 I do not think authoritarianism is some inevitability, but it 1383 01:29:28.119 --> 01:29:31.520 is the way we're moving. So you need people to 1384 01:29:31.680 --> 01:29:38.319 push against this, and there are people pushing against it. 1385 01:29:38.359 --> 01:29:41.119 But I think particularly in the legal sphere, and it's 1386 01:29:41.159 --> 01:29:45.199 important to support these people like I would support Again, 1387 01:29:45.279 --> 01:29:48.840 we talked about how the Congress as that branch is 1388 01:29:48.960 --> 01:29:52.640 caving in to the present, but I would support any 1389 01:29:52.720 --> 01:29:56.039 congressman that I thought is just willing to sort of 1390 01:29:56.640 --> 01:30:00.239 exxert some of the power of Congress. So some these 1391 01:30:00.239 --> 01:30:02.880 people who said like, yeah, the president shouldn't really have 1392 01:30:02.880 --> 01:30:06.399 the power to impose terroriffs like this, and he shouldn't. 1393 01:30:06.920 --> 01:30:09.159 It's not clearly even does. So there's going to be 1394 01:30:09.239 --> 01:30:15.000 legal push on that. But that that so there's things 1395 01:30:15.760 --> 01:30:20.520 and specific people causes that you can support on it. 1396 01:30:20.640 --> 01:30:23.760 I'm supportive of some of the organizations that are pushing 1397 01:30:23.800 --> 01:30:28.439 back on the immigration things, for instance, and it would 1398 01:30:28.479 --> 01:30:31.239 be crazy for them to think, well, but it's inevitable 1399 01:30:31.319 --> 01:30:33.960 that we're going to have authoritarianism, So what's the point of. 1400 01:30:33.920 --> 01:30:39.920 Doing this, which it says, I'm taking objectivism through Iinman's 1401 01:30:39.920 --> 01:30:45.199 fiction and discovered I have some psychological resistance to objectivism. 1402 01:30:46.000 --> 01:30:50.800 What guidance can you provide for introspecting that resisting resistance? 1403 01:30:51.720 --> 01:30:53.199 He says, I'll ask Aaron. 1404 01:30:53.000 --> 01:31:00.520 To Well, one is good to notice that if if 1405 01:31:00.640 --> 01:31:06.119 you are really fighting the ideas for a certain reason, 1406 01:31:06.560 --> 01:31:08.600 it's to notice, yeah, I seem to be doing this, 1407 01:31:08.680 --> 01:31:11.079 and even if you don't know the reason, but it's 1408 01:31:11.079 --> 01:31:13.920 like I've got some resist I don't I'm starting to 1409 01:31:13.960 --> 01:31:16.479 see that, yeah, maybe this is right or maybe this 1410 01:31:16.600 --> 01:31:19.359 is true, and I'm sort of resistant to go there. 1411 01:31:19.720 --> 01:31:22.880 That's just a good thing to note. And then it's 1412 01:31:22.920 --> 01:31:28.359 to think, what are like, why do I think I'm 1413 01:31:28.439 --> 01:31:33.680 resistant to this? And there's there's possibilities not exhaustive, so 1414 01:31:33.720 --> 01:31:35.560 none of these might fit. But you have to like 1415 01:31:35.680 --> 01:31:37.960 really think about it and think, yeah, does is that 1416 01:31:38.079 --> 01:31:44.960 what's happening? There's people who will equate a philosophy and 1417 01:31:44.960 --> 01:31:49.680 a religion for various reasons. So I'm coming to see 1418 01:31:49.760 --> 01:31:52.319 it's thinking yeah, I'm RAN's right about this, or this 1419 01:31:52.359 --> 01:31:55.880 idea is true. It's am I starting to swallow a religion? 1420 01:31:55.960 --> 01:31:58.840 And I get it? And that's not how I think 1421 01:31:58.880 --> 01:32:02.760 of myself and and and maybe rightly and for good reasons. 1422 01:32:02.760 --> 01:32:05.159 Like you think, yeah, I don't want to just follow along? 1423 01:32:05.319 --> 01:32:07.199 I don't. That's not what I do. But is it? 1424 01:32:07.279 --> 01:32:09.479 Are you following the longer? Do you actually see that 1425 01:32:09.560 --> 01:32:12.000 it's true? And to be able to distinguish? But it's 1426 01:32:12.000 --> 01:32:14.920 not an easy thing to distinguish. So there's people who 1427 01:32:15.199 --> 01:32:18.399 the more it gets systematic and say, yeah, this idea 1428 01:32:18.439 --> 01:32:20.920 makes sense and that and this they connect together. It's 1429 01:32:20.920 --> 01:32:23.359 more like, well, am I following for a religion like 1430 01:32:23.479 --> 01:32:29.319 I've got a system of ideas? Or it can be 1431 01:32:29.319 --> 01:32:36.359 because modern education and culture is certainty is simplistic, so 1432 01:32:36.760 --> 01:32:41.439 and I ran certain like what she projects is certainty. 1433 01:32:41.600 --> 01:32:45.119 I think it's an aruncertainty. But there's an easy way 1434 01:32:45.159 --> 01:32:48.880 to think about it, thinking, yeah, but there's got to 1435 01:32:48.920 --> 01:32:53.039 be something wrong because someone who's this certain and it 1436 01:32:53.079 --> 01:32:55.880 has echoes of the religious aspect, because these two things 1437 01:32:55.920 --> 01:32:58.159 go hand in it. So you can have you can 1438 01:32:58.239 --> 01:33:01.479 have in effect a suspicion of certain indeed that you 1439 01:33:01.560 --> 01:33:04.560 don't really know you have, and it's sort of a need. 1440 01:33:04.640 --> 01:33:06.399 And so you can find that I would put that 1441 01:33:06.960 --> 01:33:10.760 you feel a kind of psychological resistance. You see, it's true, 1442 01:33:10.840 --> 01:33:16.720 but certainty is for morons or religious types of So 1443 01:33:16.880 --> 01:33:20.119 those are two for instance that I've seen people who 1444 01:33:20.239 --> 01:33:23.239 yeah and you and it is yeah, but it doesn't 1445 01:33:23.319 --> 01:33:25.560 change the fact that this idea is true and I've 1446 01:33:25.600 --> 01:33:28.000 got to get over this. But so it's a good 1447 01:33:28.000 --> 01:33:29.960 thing to note. And then you have to probe it 1448 01:33:30.159 --> 01:33:33.159 and don't be like you have to really probe it. 1449 01:33:33.279 --> 01:33:36.880 So those neither of those might be explanations for you, 1450 01:33:36.960 --> 01:33:39.000 and then you have to think, well, what else is 1451 01:33:39.079 --> 01:33:39.439 going on? 1452 01:33:41.880 --> 01:33:45.640 And says I think this is to you? You said 1453 01:33:45.720 --> 01:33:50.239 Harris called Trump a fascist without backing it up. Were 1454 01:33:50.279 --> 01:33:52.880 you saying she shouldn't call him that or that she 1455 01:33:53.159 --> 01:33:56.000 should have used your points. 1456 01:33:58.359 --> 01:34:02.399 I don't remember saying that, but I I it is. 1457 01:34:05.720 --> 01:34:13.119 It is true. I think that the the accusations of 1458 01:34:13.439 --> 01:34:19.920 fascists are made way too easy. That is, anything they 1459 01:34:19.960 --> 01:34:24.880 don't like will be label this is fascism, and you 1460 01:34:25.159 --> 01:34:32.399 empty the the term one, you empty the term of meaning. 1461 01:34:33.239 --> 01:34:42.239 But it's also what you do is the the people 1462 01:34:43.399 --> 01:34:47.359 who are not the sort of Trump's base, but people 1463 01:34:47.479 --> 01:34:53.479 supporting him will be disturbed by some of elements of 1464 01:34:53.560 --> 01:34:57.319 real authoritarianism. They will be disturbed by. But if you 1465 01:34:57.520 --> 01:35:01.359 call everything that's happening fascis, then they'll tune it out 1466 01:35:01.880 --> 01:35:04.640 and they'll be it's all. This is just another of 1467 01:35:04.680 --> 01:35:07.760 the people who hate him saying he's engaged in fashions. 1468 01:35:07.760 --> 01:35:11.159 So you if you make that kind of accusation, you 1469 01:35:11.479 --> 01:35:15.520 have to be able to explain it in detail. What 1470 01:35:15.560 --> 01:35:19.279 do you think the fascism And if fascism is cutting 1471 01:35:19.359 --> 01:35:24.760 government positions? Yeah, like, if that's fascism, then it loses 1472 01:35:24.800 --> 01:35:28.199 all meaning and just thinking well that, but is fascism 1473 01:35:28.279 --> 01:35:31.319 bad then like you can never reduce the size of government, 1474 01:35:32.680 --> 01:35:37.560 and yeah, so it it definitely can be counterproductive, and 1475 01:35:38.279 --> 01:35:42.319 by so much of the left, it's counterproductive of what 1476 01:35:42.359 --> 01:35:42.960 they're doing. 1477 01:35:44.159 --> 01:35:47.600 Not your average algorithm. I don't know how it could 1478 01:35:47.680 --> 01:35:51.920 be that so many intelligent people can wall off a 1479 01:35:51.960 --> 01:35:54.479 part of their mind and believe in something that a 1480 01:35:54.520 --> 01:36:02.000 part of their mind must know is not true. A 1481 01:36:02.000 --> 01:36:05.960 lot of people struggle with the idea that people evade 1482 01:36:06.000 --> 01:36:07.039 and people really do. 1483 01:36:08.560 --> 01:36:13.119 And yeah, it's a recurring question I get on these shows. 1484 01:36:15.479 --> 01:36:22.560 I think one the more you think about the motivations involved, 1485 01:36:23.520 --> 01:36:35.600 the more understandable that it becomes. And it's so a 1486 01:36:35.680 --> 01:36:40.920 few things about that. It is not true that people's 1487 01:36:41.159 --> 01:36:45.600 default motivation is that they're seeking the truth and then 1488 01:36:46.279 --> 01:36:49.720 you have to do something to warp that, or it's 1489 01:36:50.439 --> 01:36:56.560 most people's basic motivation is not that. This is part 1490 01:36:57.000 --> 01:37:06.520 of the fountain Head. It's a different novel from Mineman's 1491 01:37:06.560 --> 01:37:12.239 other novels. It's the one that's most set in a 1492 01:37:12.359 --> 01:37:16.199 kind of just a contemporary world, a contemporary America. And 1493 01:37:16.840 --> 01:37:19.399 you can't get from the film that the perspective is 1494 01:37:19.640 --> 01:37:22.359 most people are seeking the truth, and no, most people 1495 01:37:22.359 --> 01:37:25.239 are secondhanded in various kinds of ways. And it doesn't 1496 01:37:25.279 --> 01:37:31.319 mean they're oblivious to the truth, but it's the truth's conditional, 1497 01:37:31.800 --> 01:37:35.439 and it's on a leash. And so it's not the 1498 01:37:35.640 --> 01:37:39.359 bold pursuit of the truth. It's y'all take that if 1499 01:37:39.399 --> 01:37:43.199 it's convenient, not too threatening. But if it is, I 1500 01:37:43.239 --> 01:37:45.520 will start to tune it out. And I will. And 1501 01:37:46.680 --> 01:37:50.720 that's you have to think of it more like that. 1502 01:37:51.680 --> 01:37:58.439 So the if you can't get if you were thinking 1503 01:37:58.439 --> 01:38:01.680 about in regard to Trump, if you can't get the 1504 01:38:02.399 --> 01:38:08.920 people like him for some understandable reasons, then you think that, well, 1505 01:38:08.960 --> 01:38:12.479 the whole thing's crazy. But if you think, if you 1506 01:38:12.560 --> 01:38:17.359 if you can get to the position of thinking, yeah, 1507 01:38:17.399 --> 01:38:21.880 there's some pushback against woke, and people respond to that, 1508 01:38:22.640 --> 01:38:26.640 and then if it's going to be yeah, but what 1509 01:38:27.159 --> 01:38:30.640 he's doing with immigration and so isn't there something really 1510 01:38:30.760 --> 01:38:33.439 troubles Well, no, he's sending back gang members and he's 1511 01:38:33.479 --> 01:38:36.279 doing that, and it's and but it's because they still 1512 01:38:36.359 --> 01:38:38.920 want Yeah, but he's tough on woke and then you're 1513 01:38:38.960 --> 01:38:43.880 going after it and I want that. And if you think, well, 1514 01:38:43.960 --> 01:38:46.560 but if you start thinking Trump has real problems, it's 1515 01:38:46.600 --> 01:38:49.439 going to jeopardize that, then it's you sort of downplay 1516 01:38:49.520 --> 01:38:52.920 the problems and and it's and I like, I've had 1517 01:38:53.039 --> 01:38:56.680 many many conversations like it's yeah, it's not too good, 1518 01:38:56.840 --> 01:38:59.119 but it's a one off case like this, and and 1519 01:38:59.239 --> 01:39:04.399 it's and it it's starting to fudge. But you have 1520 01:39:04.560 --> 01:39:07.600 to see this. It's motivated by something, not just oh okay, 1521 01:39:07.680 --> 01:39:10.439 now the person okay, this is sort of blind to reality. 1522 01:39:10.560 --> 01:39:11.680 That's not what's happening. 1523 01:39:13.680 --> 01:39:17.960 Chris asks, I'm seeing list after list that put AOC 1524 01:39:18.159 --> 01:39:21.039 as the most likely Democratic candidate for twenty twenty eight. 1525 01:39:21.720 --> 01:39:24.760 How likely is an AOC versus Vance election in twenty 1526 01:39:24.840 --> 01:39:25.239 twenty eight. 1527 01:39:27.760 --> 01:39:33.800 I don't know. I it's so I've seen some of 1528 01:39:33.880 --> 01:39:38.640 the stories because the rallies that she and Sanders are 1529 01:39:38.680 --> 01:39:42.359 doing and getting big crowds and so on. It's I 1530 01:39:42.600 --> 01:39:49.680 agree with the people who think this is they're further 1531 01:39:49.880 --> 01:39:53.079 out of touch in the sense that they think they 1532 01:39:53.119 --> 01:39:56.520 could win a general election like this. It will be 1533 01:39:57.159 --> 01:40:00.880 it will be a way of handing as someone like 1534 01:40:01.000 --> 01:40:04.399 events an election if they do it. And this is 1535 01:40:07.239 --> 01:40:17.359 like how bad the mainstream slash like leaning statists people are. 1536 01:40:17.840 --> 01:40:23.279 So if you remember after the Trump's win in twenty sixteen, 1537 01:40:23.760 --> 01:40:27.399 people a lot of media outlets like The New York Times, 1538 01:40:27.920 --> 01:40:30.039 but just a lot of people who thought of themselves 1539 01:40:30.079 --> 01:40:32.880 as the mainstream. I was like, yeah, we don't really 1540 01:40:32.880 --> 01:40:35.880 seem to understand the country, and we probably ignored the 1541 01:40:35.960 --> 01:40:38.640 middle of the country for so we've got to start 1542 01:40:39.039 --> 01:40:42.119 really investigating, and they go, what is what are their 1543 01:40:42.880 --> 01:40:46.399 grievances and why do they seem so pissed with us? 1544 01:40:46.560 --> 01:40:50.000 And whatever? The coastal elites or how it was. I 1545 01:40:50.159 --> 01:40:54.840 don't think when you look at that in large, that 1546 01:40:55.039 --> 01:40:58.560 there was genuine soul searching in regard to that. There 1547 01:40:58.600 --> 01:41:01.720 were some individuals who I think had some genuine curiosity, 1548 01:41:01.840 --> 01:41:05.079 like why is it that these people thought Trump's better 1549 01:41:05.199 --> 01:41:08.720 than Hillary Clinton? So, but I think the vast majority 1550 01:41:09.039 --> 01:41:12.479 they're not interested in that, and they've showed that. 1551 01:41:14.000 --> 01:41:14.079 And. 1552 01:41:16.600 --> 01:41:19.760 That's really bad, Like it's a form of pretense of 1553 01:41:19.880 --> 01:41:24.119 thinking these people maybe they had some legitimate grievance, and 1554 01:41:24.199 --> 01:41:26.600 they do have some legit, that's the whole thing. They 1555 01:41:26.720 --> 01:41:29.960 do have some legitimate grievances, And there was too much 1556 01:41:30.560 --> 01:41:34.880 of a hand waving towards this. So I think there's 1557 01:41:35.520 --> 01:41:40.880 probably particularly like the some of the crowds that were around, 1558 01:41:41.560 --> 01:41:46.840 there's too much of a focus on Trump and his 1559 01:41:47.039 --> 01:41:52.319 base are crazy not seen yeah, but there's so much 1560 01:41:52.520 --> 01:41:55.399 that's crazy of what's going. I do think Trump is 1561 01:41:55.479 --> 01:41:59.439 based are crazy, but it's not. Think it's the only 1562 01:41:59.600 --> 01:42:03.159 thing that's crazy. And part of the way the New 1563 01:42:03.239 --> 01:42:06.720 York Times and the Washington Post, it's own function is crazy. 1564 01:42:09.439 --> 01:42:13.159 Michael should in generals, members of Ice, and high ranking 1565 01:42:13.239 --> 01:42:17.039 military pussanneil be given directives to side with the Supreme 1566 01:42:17.119 --> 01:42:20.399 Court over the President before they take those positions. 1567 01:42:24.319 --> 01:42:28.520 I mean, if you take seriously when people what they're 1568 01:42:28.600 --> 01:42:31.399 swearing is an oath to the Constitution, that has to 1569 01:42:31.479 --> 01:42:34.039 mean something. And I don't think it has to mean 1570 01:42:34.760 --> 01:42:39.439 you're you have to side with the Supreme Court or 1571 01:42:39.479 --> 01:42:44.079 something like it. But in a division of powers system 1572 01:42:44.159 --> 01:42:46.359 that we have, there are certain things that the court 1573 01:42:46.600 --> 01:42:48.880 has the jurisdiction, It gets the rule, and it gets 1574 01:42:48.920 --> 01:42:51.600 the final say. And in that sense, yes, like if 1575 01:42:51.800 --> 01:42:54.319 a court has ruled, what an oath of the Constitution 1576 01:42:54.680 --> 01:42:59.199 means is yeah, like the Constitution says the Supreme Court 1577 01:42:59.279 --> 01:43:01.199 on this is you in this one has the final 1578 01:43:01.239 --> 01:43:05.840 say and that's then so so yes, in a broader 1579 01:43:05.960 --> 01:43:09.399 sense like it has, it has and it should have 1580 01:43:09.479 --> 01:43:13.079 a meaning that you're swearing an all to uphold the Constitution. 1581 01:43:14.760 --> 01:43:17.319 Part of the challenge now is that he's chosen people 1582 01:43:17.399 --> 01:43:22.079 to those positions who you know clearly hold their alliance 1583 01:43:22.159 --> 01:43:26.600 to Trump and not to the Constitution. Michael, have you 1584 01:43:27.119 --> 01:43:31.199 have you done the numbers? Do you add? About? Always 1585 01:43:31.279 --> 01:43:32.920 asking me, I guess, do you add about a thousand 1586 01:43:32.960 --> 01:43:38.399 new subscribers per year or every six months? It really depends. 1587 01:43:40.720 --> 01:43:43.319 Right now, I'm not adding many subscribers. I seem to 1588 01:43:43.399 --> 01:43:48.800 be losing quite a few over Trump. I think, I mean, 1589 01:43:48.840 --> 01:43:52.399 we're still adding small amounts. But typically I add anyway 1590 01:43:52.439 --> 01:43:55.840 from one hundred to three hundred subscribers a month, if 1591 01:43:55.880 --> 01:43:58.880 that's helpful. So over a year, I should add more 1592 01:43:58.960 --> 01:44:01.960 than a thousand, and some years significantly more than a thousand. 1593 01:44:02.199 --> 01:44:06.319 It depends if I get on a good podcast subscription 1594 01:44:06.479 --> 01:44:09.720 go up a lot, if I get good publicity, If 1595 01:44:10.439 --> 01:44:14.159 like now I'm mainly talking about Trump, I lose a 1596 01:44:14.199 --> 01:44:19.479 lot of people. So it varies over time, Right, Thomas, 1597 01:44:19.720 --> 01:44:22.520 what's the possibility that Trump's second presidency will be so 1598 01:44:22.720 --> 01:44:27.560 bad that having JD as VP, that Trump alone will 1599 01:44:27.800 --> 01:44:31.640 end the national conservative movement? So what's the possibility his 1600 01:44:31.680 --> 01:44:34.359 presidency is so bad that the national conservative movement will 1601 01:44:34.720 --> 01:44:35.119 go away. 1602 01:44:38.560 --> 01:44:41.279 I don't think there's any possibility of that. So it 1603 01:44:41.479 --> 01:44:45.640 might be that it's harder for it to gain power, 1604 01:44:45.760 --> 01:44:48.880 but that's not the same as it going away. And 1605 01:44:49.159 --> 01:44:55.520 I don't know how much Trump will be seen as representing. 1606 01:44:55.119 --> 01:44:56.159 Yeah, I don't think you will. 1607 01:44:56.359 --> 01:45:00.760 Yeah, they're trying to use him. I mean it's directions 1608 01:45:00.800 --> 01:45:04.279 like he's trying to use them. And he has a 1609 01:45:04.399 --> 01:45:09.800 certain kind of that that many people like this a 1610 01:45:11.720 --> 01:45:14.439 feel like he is a people person in a certain 1611 01:45:14.600 --> 01:45:18.319 kind of way. And so he was criticized a lot 1612 01:45:18.560 --> 01:45:23.439 for taking events as his running mate. But I think 1613 01:45:23.640 --> 01:45:25.880 he knew what he was doing in regards and there's 1614 01:45:25.920 --> 01:45:27.720 a way like he's trying to use them, and there's 1615 01:45:27.760 --> 01:45:31.119 a way they think they can use him, and how 1616 01:45:31.199 --> 01:45:34.479 that will play out, it's much more likely I think 1617 01:45:35.000 --> 01:45:35.880 that they're using him. 1618 01:45:36.640 --> 01:45:38.760 Yeah, And I think that the only intellectual movement on 1619 01:45:38.800 --> 01:45:42.039 the rights I think I think that they're gonna they dominate. 1620 01:45:42.880 --> 01:45:46.960 That they'll they'll wolf, they'll change, they'll adapt to what 1621 01:45:47.079 --> 01:45:50.680 Trump does, but do it. I mean, the better right, 1622 01:45:51.279 --> 01:45:55.119 the better conservatives are being completely marginalized. I mean they 1623 01:45:55.319 --> 01:45:57.520 they don't have any following. 1624 01:45:58.680 --> 01:46:00.439 Yeah, and that's why I won't. I mean, it's an 1625 01:46:00.479 --> 01:46:04.439 intellectual movement that's not going to go away, because even 1626 01:46:04.520 --> 01:46:09.000 if like Trump is seen as failing and has thought 1627 01:46:09.039 --> 01:46:11.039 of well, the failure is some because he had some 1628 01:46:11.159 --> 01:46:14.039 connection to National Conservative That's not how an intellectual movement 1629 01:46:14.079 --> 01:46:14.600 will go away. 1630 01:46:16.079 --> 01:46:19.920 Does psychology need a philosophical foundation? I think objectivism would 1631 01:46:19.920 --> 01:46:22.560 be the best philosophy with its reality based morality. 1632 01:46:26.159 --> 01:46:31.680 Yes, so I do. Basically any science needs a philosophical foundation, 1633 01:46:31.800 --> 01:46:37.920 but psychology in particular, because it's a specialized study of consciousness. 1634 01:46:38.039 --> 01:46:45.079 If you don't have the basic principles about thinking about 1635 01:46:45.119 --> 01:46:49.279 consciousness that are correct, you're going to just go completely 1636 01:46:49.399 --> 01:46:52.239 wrong in psychology. I mean one of the most obvious 1637 01:46:52.640 --> 01:46:58.439 ways is when you had materialism in philosophy, you had 1638 01:46:58.439 --> 01:47:01.840 psychologic behaviorism and psychology that doesn't even think you're conscious, 1639 01:47:02.119 --> 01:47:04.920 And yeah, you can't get anywhere if that's what. So 1640 01:47:05.039 --> 01:47:08.239 you need a base that the philosophy is establishing. And 1641 01:47:09.000 --> 01:47:11.479 the basic issue in philosophy is how to think about 1642 01:47:11.520 --> 01:47:15.920 consciousness's relationship to reality, and I think objectivism's view is 1643 01:47:16.000 --> 01:47:18.079 right in regard to that. So in that sense it 1644 01:47:18.079 --> 01:47:22.880 would form the base of a proper psychology. R. 1645 01:47:23.000 --> 01:47:27.319 Michael says, do the thinkers behind maga He puts thinkers 1646 01:47:27.359 --> 01:47:31.039 in quotes think that making us less of a consumer 1647 01:47:31.119 --> 01:47:35.199 mtualistic nation will somehow make a spiritually richer and listen, 1648 01:47:35.239 --> 01:47:38.760 nihilistic if we don't have the option to shop an 1649 01:47:38.800 --> 01:47:39.520 Amazon as. 1650 01:47:39.479 --> 01:47:48.239 Much, Yes, in a certain kind of way, I do 1651 01:47:48.520 --> 01:47:54.399 so if the so this is I think an element 1652 01:47:54.560 --> 01:48:00.239 of what one saw in fascist movements of the a 1653 01:48:00.520 --> 01:48:06.119 scorn of materialism, material comforts that makes people soft. So 1654 01:48:06.800 --> 01:48:12.439 the the people who push we need national service because 1655 01:48:12.520 --> 01:48:15.119 that is even like if we had a war, that 1656 01:48:15.159 --> 01:48:17.039 would be the greatest thing that we could be said, 1657 01:48:17.199 --> 01:48:21.119 But even if we have this this kind of hard 1658 01:48:23.600 --> 01:48:26.039 where they learn some kind of like it's a bogus 1659 01:48:26.119 --> 01:48:28.680 but learn a work ethic. And so there's an element 1660 01:48:28.880 --> 01:48:32.279 of that that I think they actually believe it like 1661 01:48:32.600 --> 01:48:36.239 this because it is in part what a religious mentality 1662 01:48:36.319 --> 01:48:41.239 looks like. That people are falling in line and are 1663 01:48:41.359 --> 01:48:45.039 doing their duty, is one way to put it, and 1664 01:48:45.199 --> 01:48:47.399 that that they think of that as and it does 1665 01:48:47.520 --> 01:48:50.319 have it it's spiritually bad, but it has a spiritual 1666 01:48:50.479 --> 01:48:53.279 like this is how people should be thinking, and we 1667 01:48:53.439 --> 01:48:56.479 need to mold people that Again that they have this 1668 01:48:56.720 --> 01:49:02.079 kind of more obedient character where they think like it 1669 01:49:02.279 --> 01:49:05.279 has real meaning to them of yeah, I've got to 1670 01:49:05.359 --> 01:49:09.680 do my duty. That is an element that is that 1671 01:49:09.880 --> 01:49:14.439 is real. It's a perverse spiritual dedication, but it is 1672 01:49:14.520 --> 01:49:15.960 a spiritual dedication. 1673 01:49:17.840 --> 01:49:21.560 Hupa. Campbell. I find it hard to believe less than 1674 01:49:21.560 --> 01:49:24.319 one hundred years after the fall of Nazi Germany, we're 1675 01:49:24.479 --> 01:49:29.399 going to do it all again. I don't think we're 1676 01:49:29.399 --> 01:49:32.479 saying we're going to do it all again, particularly not 1677 01:49:32.560 --> 01:49:32.800 in that. 1678 01:49:35.319 --> 01:49:39.199 This is the conference what we just did in Berlin. 1679 01:49:39.920 --> 01:49:41.520 I talked a little bit about this, and I think 1680 01:49:41.600 --> 01:49:43.920 I'm gonna I mean, my talk is going to be 1681 01:49:45.600 --> 01:49:49.560 about saving the Enlightenment, and I think I'm gonna talk 1682 01:49:50.199 --> 01:49:54.079 some about this that it. I think that there is 1683 01:49:54.119 --> 01:49:58.520 an element of something happening again. But if one holds 1684 01:49:58.600 --> 01:50:02.720 it so concretely as well, what we're gonna have is 1685 01:50:02.920 --> 01:50:08.880 concentration camps, and that it's no that to repeat history 1686 01:50:09.000 --> 01:50:12.800 doesn't that's not what it needs to mean to repeat it, 1687 01:50:12.920 --> 01:50:27.479 but that there's that the opposition of that's the to 1688 01:50:27.600 --> 01:50:30.039 think of the Trump phenomena. But more broadly, I think 1689 01:50:30.119 --> 01:50:34.680 populism around the Western world. You have to see in 1690 01:50:35.119 --> 01:50:40.960 what they're say they're in opposition to and the plausibility 1691 01:50:41.520 --> 01:50:45.880 of people thinking, yeah, we need someone who's gonna stand 1692 01:50:45.960 --> 01:50:50.960 up to this. That's part I think of what's repeating, 1693 01:50:52.640 --> 01:50:56.239 but in a different but never a similar form, And 1694 01:50:56.399 --> 01:51:01.000 you you have to think of it like that. Of that, 1695 01:51:01.319 --> 01:51:05.600 like you have to try to really think what gives 1696 01:51:05.720 --> 01:51:10.199 this appeal versus just thinking these whatever, how do you 1697 01:51:10.239 --> 01:51:13.079 want to put Trump's base maga people populist around the 1698 01:51:13.119 --> 01:51:18.000 Western world, they're all crazy and so and one of 1699 01:51:18.079 --> 01:51:22.680 the phenomenon I think one should take seriously, and it's 1700 01:51:22.680 --> 01:51:25.039 something I've been thinking more about. I know people who 1701 01:51:25.079 --> 01:51:31.159 I think of as good who have embraced these kinds 1702 01:51:31.199 --> 01:51:35.399 of things in or in part, and so you can 1703 01:51:35.520 --> 01:51:38.920 just just sort of brush it all away as well 1704 01:51:39.640 --> 01:51:42.479 they're now all irrational or something like that. Are there's 1705 01:51:42.520 --> 01:51:47.000 deeper dynamics going on, and my views it's the second. 1706 01:51:47.039 --> 01:51:48.680 So that's part of what I want to talk about 1707 01:51:48.840 --> 01:51:49.640 probably at o't com. 1708 01:51:52.159 --> 01:51:56.439 Yeah, I think, particularly on the issue of immigration, both 1709 01:51:57.800 --> 01:52:02.560 Qan in Europe especially. You know, your the dynamics a 1710 01:52:02.600 --> 01:52:05.760 little different than here, but it's it's still immigration is 1711 01:52:05.840 --> 01:52:10.880 still there's something there that people are really upset about 1712 01:52:10.920 --> 01:52:13.920 and offended by that. I think it's still wrong, but 1713 01:52:14.239 --> 01:52:21.800 it's not crazy. Hapah. Once intellectuals is dumbed down the population, 1714 01:52:21.880 --> 01:52:26.760 it's a certain level. Does fascism become inevitable something we've 1715 01:52:26.840 --> 01:52:27.279 answered that. 1716 01:52:29.000 --> 01:52:32.000 Yeah, I don't think of it as exactly as dumbed down. 1717 01:52:34.720 --> 01:52:38.239 But if you think of it as the intellectuals of 1718 01:52:38.439 --> 01:52:42.479 conditioned people, yes, And that's sort of the part of 1719 01:52:42.560 --> 01:52:45.199 what the Ominous Parallels is about. And but part of 1720 01:52:45.239 --> 01:52:47.319 the reason I don't think of it as dumbed down 1721 01:52:48.239 --> 01:52:53.840 is my view when you look at the twentieth century, 1722 01:52:55.079 --> 01:52:58.000 the peal of fascism is to the more educated people. 1723 01:52:58.199 --> 01:53:01.680 The peal of socialism is to the educated people. So 1724 01:53:03.199 --> 01:53:06.960 Marx thought communism is gonna come in Germany, and like 1725 01:53:07.039 --> 01:53:11.119 the leading into it's not what came. Communism goes to Russia, 1726 01:53:11.199 --> 01:53:18.279 whether people are backward uneducated, because I don't think anybody 1727 01:53:18.479 --> 01:53:23.439 who has some experience with the modern world can really 1728 01:53:23.600 --> 01:53:28.319 think that if we abolish private property, everything's gonna work. Well, 1729 01:53:29.119 --> 01:53:34.479 some person who's hasn't been educated, hasn't been in capitalism thing. Yeah, 1730 01:53:34.520 --> 01:53:37.520 like we just took up people's property over everything's gonna work. 1731 01:53:38.039 --> 01:53:41.439 So the fascist was, yeah, we're not going to to 1732 01:53:41.600 --> 01:53:45.199 just take everybody's properties, we're gonna take their lives. In effect, 1733 01:53:45.279 --> 01:53:47.439 there's still own property, but we will tell them what 1734 01:53:47.520 --> 01:53:51.920 to do. And so that appeals to a more educated 1735 01:53:52.039 --> 01:53:54.560 mind of thinking, well, yeah, maybe that could work. You 1736 01:53:54.640 --> 01:53:59.000 can't just socialize everything and think and so that's the 1737 01:53:59.079 --> 01:54:02.000 sense of which it's not. That's partly why I resist. 1738 01:54:02.079 --> 01:54:05.600 It's the dumbing down, but it is a conditioning of 1739 01:54:06.159 --> 01:54:07.520 people to think this could work. 1740 01:54:08.520 --> 01:54:11.720 Yeah, And I think as a gleatanism appeals to a 1741 01:54:11.800 --> 01:54:12.760 certain type of person. 1742 01:54:14.039 --> 01:54:15.119 Fascism keeps. 1743 01:54:17.000 --> 01:54:21.479 I mean, there's higherarchy, there's a semblance of merit, but 1744 01:54:21.680 --> 01:54:25.119 it's it's you know, so so better people at the top, 1745 01:54:25.279 --> 01:54:32.479 and there's there's a yeah, you know, let's see mcano 1746 01:54:34.119 --> 01:54:38.119 advice for one in their twenties drowning in melancholy for 1747 01:54:38.319 --> 01:54:42.800 months over miss messing up a relationship, the sort of 1748 01:54:43.079 --> 01:54:45.960 she was the one, nothing else is as good. 1749 01:54:50.159 --> 01:54:56.920 I'd be suspicious of that conclusion that in your twenties 1750 01:54:57.079 --> 01:55:02.520 that it's you had that one chance, then it's gone. 1751 01:55:02.680 --> 01:55:04.960 I mean, yeah, yeah, I mean that's what you should 1752 01:55:04.960 --> 01:55:07.479 be rethinking and it's odd because you're in the motion, 1753 01:55:07.720 --> 01:55:12.279 in the motion of the breakup and the you know, uh, 1754 01:55:12.800 --> 01:55:15.399 melancholy of all of that. But you've got to get 1755 01:55:15.439 --> 01:55:16.199 out there and you've. 1756 01:55:16.079 --> 01:55:16.399 Got to. 1757 01:55:18.119 --> 01:55:20.760 There's every reason to believe that there's not one person 1758 01:55:20.840 --> 01:55:24.479 when I'm matched up in some mystical way, to have 1759 01:55:24.680 --> 01:55:30.800 just one person that we met We met with and uh, we. 1760 01:55:30.960 --> 01:55:32.079 Like people for different reasons. 1761 01:55:32.119 --> 01:55:34.560 You could find somebody else who's very different than this woman, 1762 01:55:35.319 --> 01:55:39.199 who will be the one in in uh in a 1763 01:55:39.359 --> 01:55:41.960 in a different way. So you've got to get over 1764 01:55:42.039 --> 01:55:44.560 this idea that there's some it's it's almost a religious 1765 01:55:44.600 --> 01:55:48.640 idea that you know, God has assigned you somebody, and 1766 01:55:49.039 --> 01:55:51.439 there's no such assignment. There isn't a one. 1767 01:55:53.119 --> 01:55:58.399 Yeah, and it it it the more you can have 1768 01:55:58.840 --> 01:56:03.720 the opposite perspective, which is I was able to do 1769 01:56:03.880 --> 01:56:07.479 it once, why can't I do it again? Yep, versus 1770 01:56:07.920 --> 01:56:09.960 sort of, I was lucky that it happened once. It 1771 01:56:10.039 --> 01:56:12.880 will never happen again. But if you really think of it, no, 1772 01:56:13.039 --> 01:56:14.880 this was I was in a relationship that it was 1773 01:56:15.000 --> 01:56:18.239 good and partly because I was good like in then yeah, 1774 01:56:18.319 --> 01:56:20.399 you can do it again, and you can find somebody else. 1775 01:56:21.760 --> 01:56:23.479 So we got two hours, but just tell her a 1776 01:56:23.520 --> 01:56:24.279 bunch of questions. 1777 01:56:24.359 --> 01:56:31.600 So hopefully okay, okay, Chris Uh. The way that Abigo 1778 01:56:31.720 --> 01:56:34.760 Garcia's clothing and tattoos are being used as evidence of 1779 01:56:34.880 --> 01:56:39.840 gang involvement reminds me of the West Memphis three. Are 1780 01:56:39.880 --> 01:56:41.079 you familiar with that case? 1781 01:56:42.920 --> 01:56:46.079 No, I mean I might, and certainly not under that name. 1782 01:56:46.199 --> 01:56:49.439 If if maybe the description of the case, I would, 1783 01:56:50.079 --> 01:56:50.960 it would ring a bell. 1784 01:56:52.359 --> 01:56:55.760 Yeah, me need under the name. But I agree that 1785 01:56:56.680 --> 01:57:01.600 the using those characteristics to identify and therefore penalize him 1786 01:57:01.760 --> 01:57:03.920 is it is a travesty. 1787 01:57:04.479 --> 01:57:09.159 And part of what I've read about it is there 1788 01:57:09.359 --> 01:57:12.239 it makes I still So there's an issue in a 1789 01:57:12.439 --> 01:57:16.199 court of law what meets an evers dentury standard and 1790 01:57:16.279 --> 01:57:18.840 so on, And it can't just be whether they've got 1791 01:57:18.920 --> 01:57:23.039 tattoos or something like that. But but supposedly for some 1792 01:57:23.399 --> 01:57:28.079 gangs tattoo like it really tells you something about membership, 1793 01:57:28.439 --> 01:57:31.960 whereas for others it does it. And the part of 1794 01:57:32.039 --> 01:57:35.159 the allegations for is for some of the gangs here 1795 01:57:35.359 --> 01:57:42.039 it doesn't tell you affiliation, and certainly not that you'll 1796 01:57:42.079 --> 01:57:45.319 have a lot of false positives. Maybe there's not in 1797 01:57:45.479 --> 01:57:47.920 one direction. It tells you something, but not everybody with 1798 01:57:48.000 --> 01:57:51.680 this tattoo is part of the gang. Even though everyone 1799 01:57:51.760 --> 01:57:53.840 in the gang has this tattoo, not everyone who has 1800 01:57:53.880 --> 01:57:57.479 this tattoos in the gang, and that like, that's part 1801 01:57:57.520 --> 01:58:01.039 of what the worry is here. So that's one kind 1802 01:58:01.199 --> 01:58:04.840 and it is the more you're trying to move quickly, 1803 01:58:05.000 --> 01:58:07.800 you just oh, yeah, like we made a mistake. We 1804 01:58:07.880 --> 01:58:10.319 thought it everything works like this gang, but no, there's 1805 01:58:10.439 --> 01:58:12.920 all kinds of different gangs that work in different ways. 1806 01:58:13.399 --> 01:58:17.319 And that's part of just the the the the sort 1807 01:58:17.359 --> 01:58:21.720 of the atmosphere around everything the administration is doing. There's 1808 01:58:21.760 --> 01:58:25.840 a different issue of whether you can convict someone based 1809 01:58:25.920 --> 01:58:29.680 on tattoos with no other corroborating evidence, and that's for 1810 01:58:29.960 --> 01:58:33.119 the courts of law to have real evidentiary standards that 1811 01:58:33.239 --> 01:58:34.000 that can happen. 1812 01:58:35.600 --> 01:58:38.600 And ask, how would you characterize the modern intellectual trend 1813 01:58:38.640 --> 01:58:40.319 in epistemology. 1814 01:58:45.079 --> 01:58:48.600 If if that doesn't if that doesn't mean like among 1815 01:58:48.760 --> 01:58:53.359 intellectuals or something, if that means the modern trend in 1816 01:58:53.560 --> 01:58:57.439 the ability to distinguish between faith and reason. 1817 01:59:02.000 --> 01:59:05.720 Thomas says, I'm reading mone Rand and have lengthy, detailed 1818 01:59:05.840 --> 01:59:10.000 questions about the philosophy. Are there any intellectuals fellows at 1819 01:59:10.000 --> 01:59:14.159 AOI that I could email call my objective for my 1820 01:59:14.239 --> 01:59:15.279 objectivist questions? 1821 01:59:17.920 --> 01:59:20.800 So yes, certainly can email. That's not guarantee you'll get 1822 01:59:21.039 --> 01:59:25.159 replies to everything, but for many of us are emails. 1823 01:59:25.199 --> 01:59:28.359 You can find them on the website. Then we have 1824 01:59:29.000 --> 01:59:35.159 things like Discussing Objectivism, which are I think it still is. 1825 01:59:35.680 --> 01:59:38.920 You can drop into three. It's a kind of subscription 1826 01:59:39.199 --> 01:59:42.399 thing for people who go to twelve fifteen of these 1827 01:59:42.479 --> 01:59:46.239 where you're reading something by iron Rand and one of 1828 01:59:46.279 --> 01:59:49.039 the scholars at AARI is having a session where we're 1829 01:59:49.359 --> 01:59:52.319 talking about it and you're meet with some fellow people 1830 01:59:52.439 --> 01:59:56.239 interested in iron Rand. So it's discussing Objectivism, and it's 1831 01:59:56.600 --> 01:59:58.720 the first three you can just drop into for free, 1832 01:59:58.960 --> 02:00:00.720 and then if you want to continue, it's a subscription. 1833 02:00:00.960 --> 02:00:03.680 So that's another place like if you're really reading the 1834 02:00:03.760 --> 02:00:07.039 stuff and I have questions, you can see in advance 1835 02:00:07.119 --> 02:00:10.720 what the essay is and drop into one or two 1836 02:00:10.760 --> 02:00:12.279 of those to see if you can get and. 1837 02:00:12.319 --> 02:00:15.439 You can join AARU or you know, apply for AARU 1838 02:00:15.640 --> 02:00:17.600 and become a student there and then you'll get a 1839 02:00:17.680 --> 02:00:18.880 lot of these questions answered. 1840 02:00:20.039 --> 02:00:21.760 Yeah, Thomas asked. 1841 02:00:21.880 --> 02:00:25.159 I also asked, how can I transition from altruism to 1842 02:00:25.239 --> 02:00:29.319 selfishness and friendships. I'm in this conflict way in my 1843 02:00:29.399 --> 02:00:32.680 initial reaction, I don't want to start a friendship because 1844 02:00:32.720 --> 02:00:35.079 I don't want to be a servant to somebody. 1845 02:00:40.039 --> 02:00:44.760 So the I think the important thing is to hold 1846 02:00:44.840 --> 02:00:47.399 it as a positive, not as it I don't want 1847 02:00:47.439 --> 02:00:52.199 to be somebody's servant. And if I've met people like 1848 02:00:52.520 --> 02:00:57.680 this in their encounter with objectivism, of objectivism wakes them 1849 02:00:57.760 --> 02:01:01.520 up to the fact that their relationships aren't real trades. 1850 02:01:01.600 --> 02:01:04.119 And that's the positive. Is you want to be a trader. 1851 02:01:04.199 --> 02:01:07.479 You should think like, I'm bringing something to this relationship. 1852 02:01:07.680 --> 02:01:10.279 There's a reason why people would want to spend time 1853 02:01:10.359 --> 02:01:12.399 with me, be around me, so and I should be 1854 02:01:12.479 --> 02:01:15.359 getting something from the people I'm spending time with. So 1855 02:01:15.439 --> 02:01:19.399 we're both gaining, we're both benefiting. The people who've been 1856 02:01:19.640 --> 02:01:26.399 raised very in a sort of very altruistic frame where 1857 02:01:26.560 --> 02:01:30.720 the expectation is always like you're to give, and it's 1858 02:01:30.840 --> 02:01:33.479 often women are raised like that You're to give, other 1859 02:01:33.560 --> 02:01:36.680 people are to receive, and so can find Yeah, I 1860 02:01:36.760 --> 02:01:38.960 want to stop doing that and think like the solution 1861 02:01:39.079 --> 02:01:41.600 to that is not be in relationships, but it's rather 1862 02:01:41.760 --> 02:01:44.279 to change the nature of the relationship. It's not like 1863 02:01:44.439 --> 02:01:46.760 withdraw and because people. I don't want to be a 1864 02:01:46.840 --> 02:01:49.880 servant to people. It's rather try to have relationships where 1865 02:01:49.960 --> 02:01:52.560 there's a positive like you know what you want to 1866 02:01:52.600 --> 02:01:55.359 get from the relationship, and thinking of the other person 1867 02:01:55.520 --> 02:01:58.600 is yeah, they should be thinking of bringing something to 1868 02:01:58.680 --> 02:02:01.920 the relationship. And Ben fit in true too. So trade 1869 02:02:02.000 --> 02:02:03.520 means you're both gaining. 1870 02:02:05.399 --> 02:02:10.960 Yep, James, I think it's worth the cost for AI 1871 02:02:11.119 --> 02:02:12.760 to take out a full page add in New York 1872 02:02:12.800 --> 02:02:16.399 Times of Washington Post within nineteen twenty five Germany. 1873 02:02:24.640 --> 02:02:29.119 Yeah, I'm skeptical, and because you need a lot of 1874 02:02:29.319 --> 02:02:35.920 explanation for this. So part of the that OBJECTIVESM doesn't 1875 02:02:36.000 --> 02:02:39.399 fit into any of today's camps. We're not part of 1876 02:02:39.439 --> 02:02:42.920 any tribe and so on. There's a way in which 1877 02:02:44.399 --> 02:02:48.079 there's so many people again, as it would be put today, 1878 02:02:48.119 --> 02:02:51.279 that they're on the left who think of themselves as 1879 02:02:51.840 --> 02:02:54.479 we're the ones fighting fascism, we're the ones who are 1880 02:02:54.520 --> 02:02:57.760 telling you and no, you're the ones who have helped 1881 02:02:57.800 --> 02:03:03.399 bringing fascism to the country. So it would that kind 1882 02:03:03.520 --> 02:03:06.960 of ad would so easily be taken as yeah, like 1883 02:03:07.039 --> 02:03:10.600 we're on the side of the academics, and and no, 1884 02:03:10.880 --> 02:03:16.119 they're they're the main reason that we've got Trump, and 1885 02:03:16.279 --> 02:03:20.239 that's part but part that to say there's some push 1886 02:03:20.359 --> 02:03:25.760 against the elites means in significant part there's a push 1887 02:03:25.800 --> 02:03:30.720 against the intellectuals, and that push is understandable. That's part 1888 02:03:30.760 --> 02:03:35.039 of the issue. And if you don't see that that's 1889 02:03:35.119 --> 02:03:39.000 part of what's going on, then you you're non understanding. 1890 02:03:39.079 --> 02:03:45.560 I think the Trump phenomenon, yeah. 1891 02:03:45.359 --> 02:03:47.359 I mean, I don't think we got that much out 1892 02:03:47.399 --> 02:03:50.159 of the for pgads after nine eleven, and that was 1893 02:03:50.239 --> 02:03:52.960 an easier in some ways, an easier topic to deal 1894 02:03:53.039 --> 02:03:55.159 with then I think this is. 1895 02:03:55.359 --> 02:03:59.800 But there's something similar in that. What I think would 1896 02:04:00.079 --> 02:04:04.039 happened with that ad is so if you're asking, the 1897 02:04:04.079 --> 02:04:07.520 way the reader of whatever New York Times Wall Street 1898 02:04:07.560 --> 02:04:10.399 Journal is processing it, it would be, oh, you're like 1899 02:04:10.479 --> 02:04:14.680 the neocons. Yep. That And even the ad we took 1900 02:04:14.760 --> 02:04:19.000 out had some quoting of neo cons in it, And 1901 02:04:19.560 --> 02:04:21.920 I mean, we know we're not we know where they are, 1902 02:04:22.039 --> 02:04:25.479 but to explain that in an ad so that the 1903 02:04:25.600 --> 02:04:28.800 person getting it will be, oh, Okay, these people are 1904 02:04:28.840 --> 02:04:32.199 really different than the neocons. So that that's why an 1905 02:04:32.239 --> 02:04:35.359 ad here will there will be put on a certain 1906 02:04:35.439 --> 02:04:37.239 camp on the right. Oh, you're like the neo caay 1907 02:04:37.439 --> 02:04:40.039 here an ad like this against that there were whatever 1908 02:04:40.159 --> 02:04:42.640 nineteen twenty five will be put Oh, you're like the 1909 02:04:42.760 --> 02:04:46.199 academics who are writing about fascism and they've been said 1910 02:04:46.239 --> 02:04:48.920 they're warning about Trump and no we're not like that. 1911 02:04:49.239 --> 02:04:54.640 Ye uh tell us say, are there any objectives courses 1912 02:04:54.720 --> 02:04:57.960 or classes that focus on teaching polemics? 1913 02:05:03.399 --> 02:05:08.760 Well, there's certainly an element of that in Understanding Objectivism. 1914 02:05:09.680 --> 02:05:17.800 Of there's a section of proper versus improper Approaches to polemics. 1915 02:05:18.920 --> 02:05:23.840 So I suspect from the question it's how to be 1916 02:05:24.000 --> 02:05:28.720 especially effective in polemics, and there's some of that in 1917 02:05:28.920 --> 02:05:32.520 that course, but that's more a course about how polemics 1918 02:05:32.600 --> 02:05:37.960 can screw up your thinking because you adopt the context 1919 02:05:38.119 --> 02:05:39.560 of what you're arguing against. 1920 02:05:41.079 --> 02:05:45.439 And that's lenin Peaoff's Understanding Objectivism. Yes, Andrew says. Peacock 1921 02:05:45.520 --> 02:05:48.720 claimed he created his course Objectivism through Induction as a 1922 02:05:48.880 --> 02:05:53.279 result of frustration in failing to be able to educate rationalists. 1923 02:05:54.319 --> 02:05:56.920 Why do you think rationalism is a popular affliction. 1924 02:06:02.279 --> 02:06:08.079 I mean for a variety of reasons. It's a popular affliction. 1925 02:06:08.920 --> 02:06:21.079 So teaching people abstract ideas when someone else has formed 1926 02:06:21.119 --> 02:06:26.000 those ideas is difficult, and a short cut will seem like, well, 1927 02:06:26.439 --> 02:06:31.159 start with the ideas and then well can talk about 1928 02:06:31.560 --> 02:06:34.479 examples of them and maybe a little bit of where 1929 02:06:34.600 --> 02:06:37.760 they come from. But there's a way in which that 1930 02:06:38.079 --> 02:06:42.880 whole education like it's difficult. It's inherently difficult to do 1931 02:06:43.000 --> 02:06:47.520 this of how to teach abstract ideas to minds that 1932 02:06:47.600 --> 02:06:49.359 haven't yet formed them, And there's a way in which 1933 02:06:50.439 --> 02:06:52.000 you can teach it in a way it makes it 1934 02:06:52.039 --> 02:06:55.319 seem like, oh, the ideas are already here, and rationalism 1935 02:06:55.479 --> 02:06:58.920 is a perspective of the ideas already here. There's not 1936 02:06:59.159 --> 02:07:00.840 that big of a question of how did they get here, 1937 02:07:00.880 --> 02:07:07.159 because they're already here. And our education system has doubled 1938 02:07:07.279 --> 02:07:12.319 or tripled down on the worst form of that error, 1939 02:07:12.680 --> 02:07:17.600 which is and take it of science and math so 1940 02:07:17.880 --> 02:07:23.039 often or taught. Here's the formulas, sort of memorize these 1941 02:07:23.119 --> 02:07:25.680 formulas will give you all kinds of problem sets where 1942 02:07:25.720 --> 02:07:28.439 you have to apply them. But why do we have 1943 02:07:28.600 --> 02:07:32.800 these formulas? Who created them? And why what problems were 1944 02:07:32.840 --> 02:07:36.000 they dealing with where they couldn't deal until they discover 1945 02:07:36.199 --> 02:07:39.560 these ideas and so on. So oh Newton has three laws. 1946 02:07:39.600 --> 02:07:42.840 Here's the three laws, and now start. And that makes 1947 02:07:42.880 --> 02:07:45.119 it seem like, oh, the ideas are just out there 1948 02:07:45.159 --> 02:07:49.880 in reality, and just go grab them and start using them. 1949 02:07:49.960 --> 02:07:52.520 And that's sort of the rationalist whole approach to ideas. 1950 02:07:52.800 --> 02:07:58.159 So the major reason I think it's so prevalent is 1951 02:07:58.880 --> 02:08:01.520 it's the method by which ideas are taught in our 1952 02:08:01.640 --> 02:08:02.479 educational system. 1953 02:08:04.199 --> 02:08:06.640 Action Jackson says, great to see on Call On again. 1954 02:08:06.800 --> 02:08:11.520 It's been a while. John says, I've corresponded over the 1955 02:08:11.600 --> 02:08:14.039 years with people who knew Ironmand and they say the 1956 02:08:14.119 --> 02:08:18.880 existing biographies are accurate. I think we we've talked to 1957 02:08:18.880 --> 02:08:22.399 people who new Ironmand and they say the biographies any inaccurate. 1958 02:08:22.520 --> 02:08:24.840 So take that for what it's worth. 1959 02:08:26.319 --> 02:08:31.279 And I would also say of the so yeah, for 1960 02:08:31.359 --> 02:08:35.359 sure of people who know. But various things have been 1961 02:08:35.560 --> 02:08:40.319 released where they were private before, like even something like 1962 02:08:40.720 --> 02:08:45.479 workshops that she held on it o e. The Fiction 1963 02:08:45.680 --> 02:08:49.239 writing course and things like that, where you're seeing things 1964 02:08:49.359 --> 02:08:52.119 that were not meant for publication in the form that 1965 02:08:52.159 --> 02:08:55.039 you're seeing them where she does not come across at 1966 02:08:55.079 --> 02:08:57.720 all like the way the biographies presented. 1967 02:08:58.239 --> 02:09:01.920 Yeah, and there's so much of that that the biographies ignore. 1968 02:09:02.199 --> 02:09:05.479 They just don't. They It's as if that material doesn't 1969 02:09:05.479 --> 02:09:11.119 even exist. They just this. You can see real flaws 1970 02:09:11.159 --> 02:09:14.039 in it without actually having known her, just based on 1971 02:09:14.119 --> 02:09:20.840 the published evidence. Daniel, does a country that re elects 1972 02:09:21.279 --> 02:09:22.960 Trump deserve a dictatorship? 1973 02:09:26.920 --> 02:09:32.399 Well, it depends what deserve means. So there's a there's 1974 02:09:32.479 --> 02:09:39.199 a perspective of you get the kind of government you deserve, 1975 02:09:39.880 --> 02:09:47.039 But deserve just means there that there's a causality to it. 1976 02:09:47.920 --> 02:09:51.520 It doesn't mean that everybody morally deserves this. And if 1977 02:09:51.520 --> 02:09:55.600 there's a lot of people who are resisting this, like 1978 02:09:55.680 --> 02:09:57.439 what does it mean? Oh but yeah, but you deserve 1979 02:09:57.479 --> 02:10:00.600 a dictators now you're trying to resist this, and anybody 1980 02:10:00.640 --> 02:10:03.720 who's like really pro American what they deserve is to 1981 02:10:03.800 --> 02:10:10.000 live in freedom. And so but from a causal perspective, 1982 02:10:10.119 --> 02:10:15.680 if too many people turn tribal, that you'll get what 1983 02:10:15.840 --> 02:10:19.159 they want is some form of follow the leader, some 1984 02:10:19.279 --> 02:10:23.439 form of authoritarianism. Yeah, so there's a sense in which causally, 1985 02:10:23.680 --> 02:10:25.600 like this is the outcome you're going to get and 1986 02:10:25.720 --> 02:10:28.479 in that sense it's earned. But it doesn't mean like 1987 02:10:28.720 --> 02:10:33.760 people who are actually pro freedom morally deserves this neo. 1988 02:10:33.920 --> 02:10:37.279 Doesn't it make more sense that the world is platonic 1989 02:10:37.359 --> 02:10:42.960 given our need for experts, everything from cause mechanics to philosophers. Also, 1990 02:10:43.159 --> 02:10:47.479 since you're Canadian, are you voting for Pure or for Connie? 1991 02:10:50.600 --> 02:10:54.720 I don't. I haven't voted in the recent elections because 1992 02:10:54.760 --> 02:10:59.640 I don't follow the Canadian politics enough to think that 1993 02:11:01.199 --> 02:11:07.319 I know what I'm doing voting the I don't get 1994 02:11:07.439 --> 02:11:15.680 the platonic element. So relying on experts is not blindly 1995 02:11:15.840 --> 02:11:19.359 following authority. And if that's like the connection that Plato thinks, 1996 02:11:19.640 --> 02:11:22.960 you have to have philosopher kings who you can't understand 1997 02:11:23.039 --> 02:11:25.279 what they're doing, but you sort of have to have 1998 02:11:25.399 --> 02:11:28.000 faith that they know what they're doing and have seen 1999 02:11:28.159 --> 02:11:31.119 the forms and are well motivated and so on. That's 2000 02:11:31.279 --> 02:11:34.279 what it means to rely on experts. You have to 2001 02:11:34.319 --> 02:11:38.039 have reasons for thinking of person's an expert. You have 2002 02:11:38.119 --> 02:11:42.319 to have reasons for thinking they know something, and to 2003 02:11:42.560 --> 02:11:47.319 know something means it's in principle accessible to anybody and everybody. 2004 02:11:47.760 --> 02:11:50.199 Like I don't think of a doctor, I go to 2005 02:11:50.600 --> 02:11:54.600 who specialize I don't know in colon cancer as Yeah, 2006 02:11:54.760 --> 02:11:57.479 like I could never learn this. I can't understand this, 2007 02:11:57.840 --> 02:11:59.800 but somehow he's been able to figure this out. So 2008 02:11:59.840 --> 02:12:01.680 I've got to turn my life over. No, it's he's 2009 02:12:01.680 --> 02:12:04.800 specialized in this field. I could learn it if I 2010 02:12:04.880 --> 02:12:07.319 specialized in it, and I want to see that he 2011 02:12:07.439 --> 02:12:10.720 can in effect explain it to me, a non expert 2012 02:12:11.079 --> 02:12:14.039 in a way that makes it. Yeah, Okay, that's plausible 2013 02:12:14.079 --> 02:12:16.359 that that's the causality. And if I studied it more, 2014 02:12:16.640 --> 02:12:19.239 I'd be more convinced that that is the cou But yeah, 2015 02:12:19.359 --> 02:12:22.840 so it's not at all like you're blindly fault if 2016 02:12:22.880 --> 02:12:24.920 you're properly relying on experts. 2017 02:12:27.479 --> 02:12:31.800 Andrews says, I'm interested in rand personally as I'm interested 2018 02:12:31.840 --> 02:12:36.439 in a psychology. Through her journal's letters one hundred voices, 2019 02:12:36.479 --> 02:12:41.079 you sense a hero, brilliant, malevolent, live to morality and 2020 02:12:41.119 --> 02:12:41.920 achieve greatness. 2021 02:12:44.640 --> 02:12:47.039 Yeah, and I certainly don't want to I said that 2022 02:12:47.159 --> 02:12:50.359 I wasn't especially interested in her person I don't think 2023 02:12:50.359 --> 02:12:53.800 there's something like weird. If somebody is in it, it's 2024 02:12:54.159 --> 02:12:55.880 and I know, I mean there's people love working in 2025 02:12:55.960 --> 02:13:00.479 the archives and see it's just it's it's not a 2026 02:13:00.680 --> 02:13:01.800 pressing issue for me. 2027 02:13:03.800 --> 02:13:07.039 Action Jackson says, is there any point in discussing Ein 2028 02:13:07.159 --> 02:13:11.600 Rand with someone whose starting point is Iroinmand was a psychopath? 2029 02:13:16.920 --> 02:13:22.600 Yes, if the if there, if you have some reason 2030 02:13:22.680 --> 02:13:26.640 to think that person will question their starting point. So 2031 02:13:27.199 --> 02:13:31.359 I I mean I brought up a way earlier some 2032 02:13:31.640 --> 02:13:34.560 forms of people thinking, oh yeah, like I know Einrand 2033 02:13:34.680 --> 02:13:37.319 just loves the rich hates the poor. There's all kinds 2034 02:13:37.359 --> 02:13:41.039 of variations on that where it's including like, yeah, she 2035 02:13:41.159 --> 02:13:43.720 must be she's for selfishness, or there's some way in 2036 02:13:43.760 --> 02:13:45.439 which she must be a psychopath or something like that. 2037 02:13:45.800 --> 02:13:48.000 And if you ask, like, what have you read of 2038 02:13:48.079 --> 02:13:52.119 Einrand's that you? And if they tell you nothing and 2039 02:13:52.920 --> 02:13:56.039 they yeah, maybe, like maybe that's embarrassing that I have 2040 02:13:56.279 --> 02:13:59.359 such a strong view and I haven't read anything, then yeah, 2041 02:13:59.399 --> 02:14:01.119 you might be able to get somewhere with that person. 2042 02:14:01.199 --> 02:14:03.279 If they just keep telling you, oh no, but I 2043 02:14:03.399 --> 02:14:04.960 know there she's a psychon well, I don't have to 2044 02:14:05.039 --> 02:14:08.840 read anything. It's yeah, then there's no one point further engaging. 2045 02:14:11.680 --> 02:14:14.680 Action says, there's leaving autocompletion on on my phone an 2046 02:14:14.720 --> 02:14:22.760 example of being secondhanded no, you know better than that. 2047 02:14:25.279 --> 02:14:28.640 Jonathan says, uncut. Thank you for so many years about 2048 02:14:28.680 --> 02:14:30.239 standing in aspiring scholarship. 2049 02:14:31.640 --> 02:14:31.920 Thank you. 2050 02:14:32.039 --> 02:14:38.279 Jonathan pe Gupta says, is it okay to evade and 2051 02:14:38.399 --> 02:14:44.880 be happy about dismantling and cut back of some of 2052 02:14:44.920 --> 02:14:48.840 the Department of Education which seemed unimaginable a few months ago? 2053 02:14:50.680 --> 02:14:52.319 Why would it bove evade? 2054 02:14:54.880 --> 02:14:58.640 We haven't talked about DOGE. Yeah, very much. I mean, 2055 02:14:58.880 --> 02:15:06.920 I'm up a little bit. I think the long in, 2056 02:15:07.359 --> 02:15:11.279 the sort of intermediate to long term, it will likely 2057 02:15:11.439 --> 02:15:16.239 make these kinds of this kind of cutting much more difficult. 2058 02:15:16.399 --> 02:15:20.159 I wish I just wish they had done it honestly, 2059 02:15:20.680 --> 02:15:24.079 and even if it was like this is part of 2060 02:15:24.119 --> 02:15:26.159 what I mean by honestly, so not if they had 2061 02:15:26.239 --> 02:15:28.840 done it way better than what they're doing, just honestly, 2062 02:15:28.960 --> 02:15:32.159 if they had said, yeah, we're cutting all kinds of things. 2063 02:15:32.600 --> 02:15:36.399 We're doing it super quickly. There's all kinds of things. 2064 02:15:36.439 --> 02:15:39.199 We don't know what we're doing. We're we might even 2065 02:15:39.239 --> 02:15:42.479 fire good people, we might try to rehire some of them, 2066 02:15:42.800 --> 02:15:45.960 some of them we might not try to rehire. But 2067 02:15:47.359 --> 02:15:50.079 if we don't do it sort of at the start 2068 02:15:50.159 --> 02:15:52.560 and quickly, it will never it will be just be 2069 02:15:52.800 --> 02:15:56.359 tied up in the bureaucratic pushback. 2070 02:15:55.840 --> 02:15:56.119 And so on. 2071 02:15:56.760 --> 02:16:00.479 But if it was much more open and not although 2072 02:16:00.560 --> 02:16:03.319 this is fraud, but many of these programs we just 2073 02:16:03.359 --> 02:16:04.920 don't like and we want to bring it to an end. 2074 02:16:05.319 --> 02:16:12.000 Not if if then I think it, Yeah, something positive? 2075 02:16:13.560 --> 02:16:15.960 What could it happened? Both short term and longer term 2076 02:16:16.000 --> 02:16:19.359 in regardless. But because of the way in which it's done, 2077 02:16:19.439 --> 02:16:24.119 and that there's so much misrepresentation and lying about what 2078 02:16:24.359 --> 02:16:28.279 is done, it makes it easy to push back. Is 2079 02:16:28.840 --> 02:16:30.520 sort of like, this is what it looks like to 2080 02:16:30.600 --> 02:16:31.800 cut government. 2081 02:16:33.760 --> 02:16:38.079 And it yeah, so and very little is being achieved, 2082 02:16:38.559 --> 02:16:39.559 and so it it. 2083 02:16:40.200 --> 02:16:43.040 You know, big promises are being made, very little is achieved, 2084 02:16:43.760 --> 02:16:45.520 and the idea will be Okay, well this is the 2085 02:16:45.600 --> 02:16:46.600 best you can do, and. 2086 02:16:46.920 --> 02:16:48.559 It's far from the best it can be done. 2087 02:16:49.319 --> 02:16:50.559 Yeah, it really is. 2088 02:16:52.360 --> 02:16:55.600 So you know, I don't think you need to not 2089 02:16:55.840 --> 02:16:57.840 be happy that I upontum of education is being cut 2090 02:16:57.920 --> 02:17:01.440 back as long as you can hold the broader context 2091 02:17:01.520 --> 02:17:03.360 of what those's doing more broadly. 2092 02:17:03.639 --> 02:17:06.079 But yeah, the problem of education is smaller. That's a 2093 02:17:06.079 --> 02:17:09.040 good thing. It's not as great as it could be, 2094 02:17:09.120 --> 02:17:09.799 but it's a good thing. 2095 02:17:11.840 --> 02:17:15.479 Lucinda says, can't watch live right now, but very excited 2096 02:17:15.520 --> 02:17:18.000 to watch this later. Everyone remember to reach the super 2097 02:17:18.040 --> 02:17:23.000 chet goal. Thank you, Lucinda. Sinda needs to join the 2098 02:17:23.479 --> 02:17:31.360 AARU at some point. She's hardworking student and really smart. 2099 02:17:33.079 --> 02:17:38.000 What about music that is primarily percussion based. I've heard 2100 02:17:38.040 --> 02:17:42.520 objectives feed bad about this, including Iran I recall in 2101 02:17:42.639 --> 02:17:44.120 regard to rap music. 2102 02:17:50.959 --> 02:17:53.920 I mean percussions part of music. So I don't know 2103 02:17:54.120 --> 02:17:55.159 what you know. 2104 02:17:55.200 --> 02:17:58.120 I have a problem with things that have a constant beat, 2105 02:17:58.399 --> 02:18:01.079 nothing ever changes except that constant be. They find it 2106 02:18:01.159 --> 02:18:05.200 mindless and and and kind of primitive, very very primitive. 2107 02:18:05.479 --> 02:18:08.639 And it's it's less similar to what iron Man wrote 2108 02:18:08.639 --> 02:18:13.239 about folk music. It's it's it's a primitive form of music. 2109 02:18:13.319 --> 02:18:17.440 It's entertaining up to a point, but it can't be 2110 02:18:17.600 --> 02:18:18.000 more than that. 2111 02:18:20.760 --> 02:18:26.200 Yeah, I I mean, I don't I'm not a consumer 2112 02:18:26.319 --> 02:18:32.639 of rap, but I can see it doesn't seem like 2113 02:18:32.680 --> 02:18:36.159 it's all like that though. There's so that's again like 2114 02:18:36.319 --> 02:18:42.319 as a as a form. Uh yeah, when music becomes monotonous, 2115 02:18:42.440 --> 02:18:46.559 it starts going outside of even being music because you 2116 02:18:46.639 --> 02:18:52.360 start to tune it out. But yeah, that doesn't tell 2117 02:18:52.399 --> 02:18:55.479 you like that's all rap is, or that everything there 2118 02:18:55.559 --> 02:18:55.920 is doing. 2119 02:18:56.520 --> 02:18:59.440 Yeah, I don't like raps, but but it doesn't mean 2120 02:18:59.479 --> 02:19:07.200 there's nothing. I know people who do. Yeah, Daniel says, 2121 02:19:07.319 --> 02:19:12.719 if labor theory exalts the virtue of physical labor, how 2122 02:19:12.840 --> 02:19:17.479 does that comporte with mainstream leftism that scoffs at materialism 2123 02:19:18.079 --> 02:19:20.239 as unimportant in inferior. 2124 02:19:23.920 --> 02:19:27.040 Well, it depends what you mean by mainstream leftism. Like 2125 02:19:27.200 --> 02:19:32.040 this was part of the change from the old left 2126 02:19:32.159 --> 02:19:35.600 to the new Left, and it was a change that 2127 02:19:35.719 --> 02:19:39.719 Einman saw and that she commented on. So the old 2128 02:19:39.840 --> 02:19:46.200 left promised material abundance, if you think of Marx as 2129 02:19:46.479 --> 02:19:49.920 prominent among this, but many of the socialists promised, you're 2130 02:19:50.000 --> 02:19:54.799 we're going to outcompete capitalism, and when the facts of 2131 02:19:54.920 --> 02:20:00.760 reality showed otherwise, they basically had two choices. It was, yeah, 2132 02:20:00.879 --> 02:20:07.959 we're pro material progress, abundance, prosperity, and therefore have to 2133 02:20:08.000 --> 02:20:12.000 give up socialism communism then, or we're going to give 2134 02:20:12.079 --> 02:20:16.000 up material abundance and prosperity. And what the new Left 2135 02:20:16.079 --> 02:20:19.440 did was what we want to cling to our statism 2136 02:20:19.840 --> 02:20:23.079 and control over people's lives. So we'll say I'm put 2137 02:20:23.120 --> 02:20:25.360 to something like, now we'll tell people it's better, you're 2138 02:20:25.399 --> 02:20:27.680 better off to go bare foot. And that's part of 2139 02:20:27.719 --> 02:20:32.760 what the environmental movement was. It's, oh, Okay, we can't 2140 02:20:32.840 --> 02:20:34.559 produce abundance, so abundance is bad. 2141 02:20:36.719 --> 02:20:38.840 Yeah, and that doesn't contradict the fact that they think 2142 02:20:38.920 --> 02:20:44.799 that physical labor is how everything is produced. Yeah, you know, 2143 02:20:44.879 --> 02:20:47.399 you can still be poor, or you can still advocate 2144 02:20:47.479 --> 02:20:51.600 poverty and still believe that. Cluck says, do you expect 2145 02:20:51.680 --> 02:20:56.040 objectivest movement to be? Did you expect the objectives movement 2146 02:20:56.120 --> 02:20:58.920 to be this small and finge sixty eight years after 2147 02:20:59.000 --> 02:21:02.879 the publication of Atlas Shrugged, that's over two generations of exposure. 2148 02:21:07.079 --> 02:21:11.159 Well, I wasn't around. I would have been. I think 2149 02:21:12.120 --> 02:21:17.639 if I were young reading Atlas Shrugged in like sort 2150 02:21:17.680 --> 02:21:22.120 of pre publication form, I would have been in the camp. 2151 02:21:22.239 --> 02:21:26.360 But said, the culture's cooked. In ten years, it's gonna 2152 02:21:26.360 --> 02:21:31.479 all change because like the ideas are so forcefully presented, 2153 02:21:32.079 --> 02:21:34.520 who's not going to see them? That I would have 2154 02:21:34.559 --> 02:21:36.760 been in that camp, I would have been wrong, and 2155 02:21:37.319 --> 02:21:40.639 not just wrong, sort of the whole perspective is wrong. 2156 02:21:40.760 --> 02:21:45.000 That's not how ideas work, it's not how fast philosophical 2157 02:21:45.120 --> 02:21:48.399 change happens, but I would have been so. I yes, 2158 02:21:48.639 --> 02:21:51.840 so I if like, if I were around at that time, 2159 02:21:51.959 --> 02:21:56.920 would be sufficed by how the gradual the change is. 2160 02:21:57.639 --> 02:21:59.920 But it's just because I would have had a wrong view, 2161 02:22:00.159 --> 02:22:02.520 not because the change has been so slow and it 2162 02:22:02.559 --> 02:22:05.399 should have been and we should have expected it to 2163 02:22:05.479 --> 02:22:08.760 been super fast. Yeah. 2164 02:22:08.879 --> 02:22:13.879 I have a very impatient listening audience. They want change now, 2165 02:22:16.079 --> 02:22:19.280 Kim ask what led to pragmatism originating and spitting in 2166 02:22:19.319 --> 02:22:21.000 the US as a post other countries. 2167 02:22:24.040 --> 02:22:28.920 This is something that if you read doctor Peacock's The 2168 02:22:29.200 --> 02:22:36.360 Ominous Parallels, there's a lot of discussion of pragmatism in there, 2169 02:22:36.680 --> 02:22:41.399 including its appeal, and one of the ways he characterizes it, 2170 02:22:41.479 --> 02:22:44.680 which I completely agree with, is something like that it's 2171 02:22:44.719 --> 02:22:47.239 not necessarily work for work, but something like it's a 2172 02:22:47.319 --> 02:22:53.559 philosophy design to appeal to Americans. So it's a philosophy 2173 02:22:53.719 --> 02:22:58.840 that promises the cash value of ideas. We're not going 2174 02:22:58.920 --> 02:23:03.200 to get bogged down into theory, spend our time in 2175 02:23:03.319 --> 02:23:08.079 the Ivory tower. We want ideas that work. And what 2176 02:23:09.239 --> 02:23:14.159 America has done is like transformed a country into the 2177 02:23:15.879 --> 02:23:18.680 greatest wealthiest country in the world. They want stuff that 2178 02:23:18.879 --> 02:23:21.239 really works, and we have a philosophy that the whole 2179 02:23:21.319 --> 02:23:25.799 emphasis is not hot air, but ideas that work, and 2180 02:23:25.879 --> 02:23:27.920 if they stop working, we pick up other ideas. And 2181 02:23:29.239 --> 02:23:34.159 that that was the appeal of Oh okay, So this 2182 02:23:34.440 --> 02:23:39.559 is thinkers who actually value practical action in the way 2183 02:23:39.600 --> 02:23:43.520 that Americans do. And that was why it was. It 2184 02:23:43.680 --> 02:23:47.079 really is a philosophy designed to appeal to Americans. 2185 02:23:50.200 --> 02:23:53.879 Andrew says, do you think collectivism is a psychological consequence 2186 02:23:54.040 --> 02:23:58.719 of incorrect epistemology that leads to an impression of cognitive dependence? 2187 02:24:02.360 --> 02:24:07.399 It's in part so most of these kinds of things 2188 02:24:08.520 --> 02:24:12.680 go hand in hand, or putting it a little differently, 2189 02:24:13.840 --> 02:24:23.680 there's vicious circles. So collectivism preaches the idea that you 2190 02:24:23.840 --> 02:24:27.639 really can't think on your own, the individuals hopeless. You 2191 02:24:27.760 --> 02:24:31.360 only think in a group. And the more person absorbs 2192 02:24:31.440 --> 02:24:34.000 that is, they stop like, what's the point of thinking 2193 02:24:34.079 --> 02:24:36.440 by myself if it doesn't work, and so on and 2194 02:24:37.520 --> 02:24:39.959 and but the more you do that, the more helpless 2195 02:24:40.040 --> 02:24:42.319 you are. If you really do give up thinking, which 2196 02:24:42.360 --> 02:24:46.120 is what collectivisms, or to give up individual thinking, which 2197 02:24:46.159 --> 02:24:48.200 means to give up thinking, then you do feel out 2198 02:24:48.239 --> 02:24:51.959 of control and collectivism seems to make more sense then, like, yeah, 2199 02:24:52.000 --> 02:24:54.079 as an individual, I don't have any control and I'm 2200 02:24:54.079 --> 02:24:56.920 not able to do things, but collectivism promises, well, but 2201 02:24:57.000 --> 02:25:00.639 the group will be powerful, so you move more that direction. 2202 02:25:00.840 --> 02:25:04.280 But then you're preached those ideas and yeah, so that 2203 02:25:04.280 --> 02:25:08.399 it forms a vicious circle. Right. 2204 02:25:09.600 --> 02:25:13.680 Do you think Josha Puro might be able to beat Fance, 2205 02:25:16.719 --> 02:25:21.440 Governor of Pennsylvania. Yeah, yeah, yes, yeah, I think. 2206 02:25:21.319 --> 02:25:23.440 There were a few Democrats that could probably beat Fance. 2207 02:25:24.079 --> 02:25:32.639 Yeah. I so it's it's rep if my view of 2208 02:25:32.680 --> 02:25:41.120 Trump is right, that he's not a power luster. I 2209 02:25:41.319 --> 02:25:45.079 think it's still the case that a person who wears 2210 02:25:45.399 --> 02:25:49.879 the power lust on their sleeve turns off Americans. It's 2211 02:25:49.959 --> 02:25:55.239 partly why Hillary Hillary Clinton really turned people off, Like 2212 02:25:55.360 --> 02:25:58.959 I can understand why she did h in comparison to 2213 02:25:59.079 --> 02:26:02.639 Bill Clinton, who I don't think of. He's more also, 2214 02:26:02.840 --> 02:26:06.639 like he liked the spotlight to be the circle of attention. 2215 02:26:07.000 --> 02:26:10.280 There was an element there's an element of power lust 2216 02:26:10.319 --> 02:26:12.559 in Bill Clinton, I think, but he didn't wear it 2217 02:26:12.639 --> 02:26:16.120 on his sleeve in the way that Hillary Clinton does. 2218 02:26:16.200 --> 02:26:19.239 And I think someone like a JD. Vance projects much 2219 02:26:19.319 --> 02:26:23.600 more a kind of contempt and why should be able 2220 02:26:23.600 --> 02:26:26.440 to real power and crush people and someone like a 2221 02:26:26.520 --> 02:26:30.079 Josh Shapiro doesn't. He seems more American yep than JD. 2222 02:26:30.239 --> 02:26:33.479 Van's And I still think the electorate would respond if 2223 02:26:33.520 --> 02:26:37.280 that's the choice. They'll respond to the more person who 2224 02:26:37.319 --> 02:26:38.360 seems more positive. 2225 02:26:40.639 --> 02:26:43.920 Neil says, wouldn't it be strategic for AOI to assign 2226 02:26:44.000 --> 02:26:48.600 people to politics, assign people to politics who can help 2227 02:26:48.680 --> 02:26:53.520 spread its ideas? And have you met with YouTube tick history? 2228 02:26:56.440 --> 02:27:00.360 So yes? On the second he came to the conference 2229 02:27:00.479 --> 02:27:03.959 in Berlin, I didn't actually get a chance to spend 2230 02:27:04.360 --> 02:27:07.520 a lot of time with him because I mean we 2231 02:27:07.639 --> 02:27:11.000 were both much more talking to the audience okay, to 2232 02:27:11.120 --> 02:27:14.360 the conference than to each other, including like during the 2233 02:27:14.399 --> 02:27:17.559 breaks and so on that on the so what was 2234 02:27:17.600 --> 02:27:22.719 the first again, it was the oh West strategicsy Yeah, 2235 02:27:23.040 --> 02:27:27.200 I mean you can't do that. People have to have 2236 02:27:27.280 --> 02:27:31.600 an actual interest in it. But I would say this, 2237 02:27:33.639 --> 02:27:37.360 I'm not in the camp. If there is such a 2238 02:27:37.440 --> 02:27:44.360 camp of it's too soon to go into politics, people 2239 02:27:44.479 --> 02:27:48.159 shouldn't engage with it. It's the last thing that's going 2240 02:27:48.239 --> 02:27:52.959 to change part of what we were talking about before 2241 02:27:53.360 --> 02:27:57.959 that it's it's a real problem that bad people go 2242 02:27:58.120 --> 02:28:01.959 into politics. And I would support anybody who I think 2243 02:28:02.120 --> 02:28:05.959 of as this person actually values America, even if I 2244 02:28:06.040 --> 02:28:08.479 disagree with the whole slew of things, but they actually 2245 02:28:09.040 --> 02:28:12.760 value the country, value the Constitution in a way that 2246 02:28:12.920 --> 02:28:15.479 there's so much now hand waving towards it. Like the 2247 02:28:16.159 --> 02:28:19.440 National Conservatives, I do not think value the Constant. They 2248 02:28:19.520 --> 02:28:21.120 might say they do, but I don't think they actually 2249 02:28:21.200 --> 02:28:24.959 do so. And I would encourage anybody who I thought 2250 02:28:25.040 --> 02:28:28.879 of of having good motivation to go into policy, Like 2251 02:28:28.959 --> 02:28:33.040 if they're interested, yeah, go. We need better people in politics, 2252 02:28:33.120 --> 02:28:36.200 so I don't want to assign people there, But if 2253 02:28:36.479 --> 02:28:39.639 people are interested in it, yes, I think you should 2254 02:28:39.639 --> 02:28:43.200 go into it. There's positive things you can do if 2255 02:28:43.239 --> 02:28:45.799 you don't have a sort of unrealistic view, Oh I'm 2256 02:28:45.840 --> 02:28:48.479 gonna become president and change the whole country or something 2257 02:28:48.520 --> 02:28:51.159 like that. But if you think, yeah, like maybe I 2258 02:28:51.200 --> 02:28:53.559 could help Congress take back some of the power that 2259 02:28:53.639 --> 02:28:56.920 it's ceded to the executive branch and so, and that's 2260 02:28:56.959 --> 02:28:58.559 a long term goal of why I want to go 2261 02:28:58.600 --> 02:29:01.959 into politic. So yeah, yeah, and if you're well motivated, 2262 02:29:02.000 --> 02:29:04.280 I had support and encourage people to do that. 2263 02:29:05.959 --> 02:29:08.000 All right, Mary Lee says a full page New York 2264 02:29:08.079 --> 02:29:12.000 Times ad costs one point four million and up. Yeah, 2265 02:29:12.120 --> 02:29:16.319 definitely not doing that. I think it cost us two 2266 02:29:16.440 --> 02:29:17.799 hundred thousand. 2267 02:29:19.520 --> 02:29:23.399 After nine eleven. But we had dedicated donors. 2268 02:29:23.639 --> 02:29:26.639 This is what they wanted to do, and basically two 2269 02:29:26.680 --> 02:29:29.559 people funded those ads that we did in the New 2270 02:29:29.639 --> 02:29:34.719 York Times. In Washington Post simon, why did theists distort 2271 02:29:35.079 --> 02:29:40.360 Why do theists distort causality by insisting on a first cause, 2272 02:29:41.239 --> 02:29:46.639 ignoring that causality presupposes existence and action and not a beginning. 2273 02:29:50.159 --> 02:29:54.879 Because most of the arguments for the existence of God 2274 02:29:55.319 --> 02:30:01.840 are rationalizations, so it's not the You probably could count 2275 02:30:01.920 --> 02:30:08.920 on one hand the people who are like deeply religious, 2276 02:30:09.479 --> 02:30:13.520 who've they've been convinced by an argument to believe in God. 2277 02:30:13.920 --> 02:30:17.799 It's they already believe in God, and then it's really 2278 02:30:17.879 --> 02:30:20.840 you just go by faith. Oh no, I've got arguments 2279 02:30:21.000 --> 02:30:24.200 for why there is a God and things like the 2280 02:30:24.280 --> 02:30:29.280 first cause argument. I mean that argument is exploded by children. Well, 2281 02:30:30.200 --> 02:30:33.719 if God's the first cause, who created God? And then 2282 02:30:33.799 --> 02:30:35.760 if it's well he doesn't need a cause, Well, why 2283 02:30:35.840 --> 02:30:39.280 does the universe need a Like a child can see 2284 02:30:39.399 --> 02:30:42.159 through that reasoning, And that's part of what tells you 2285 02:30:42.520 --> 02:30:45.799 that it's a rationalization. It's not why they hold the idea, 2286 02:30:46.200 --> 02:30:48.600 it's they want you to think they hold the idea 2287 02:30:49.319 --> 02:30:51.559 because of this argument, because then it's oh, yeah, I'm 2288 02:30:51.639 --> 02:30:52.920 just I'm rational, just like you. 2289 02:30:54.760 --> 02:31:00.920 All right. Last question, I think does the the minicarist 2290 02:31:01.159 --> 02:31:12.040 political philosophy known as propartarianism propitetarianism have any meaningful degree 2291 02:31:12.079 --> 02:31:15.520 of integration with objectivism or is it too lacking an 2292 02:31:15.559 --> 02:31:20.840 intellectual rigor and egoistic morality? Is it interesting in any ways? 2293 02:31:22.520 --> 02:31:24.799 Have you heard of these? Yeah? 2294 02:31:24.879 --> 02:31:28.559 So, what I think it is is it's so so 2295 02:31:29.159 --> 02:31:32.799 it's two things. I think this is what the question 2296 02:31:32.959 --> 02:31:38.319 is about. So one is the thinking of you. You 2297 02:31:38.719 --> 02:31:46.760 put political philosophies on a spectrum of how big the 2298 02:31:46.840 --> 02:31:50.760 government is. And so minarchy is anarchy is no government 2299 02:31:50.799 --> 02:31:53.440 like it's the smallest zero, minarchy is a little one. 2300 02:31:53.520 --> 02:31:56.079 And then you have whatever our mixed economy. And so 2301 02:31:57.639 --> 02:32:02.559 that's objectivism completely rejects that that as though the essential 2302 02:32:02.719 --> 02:32:06.440 is the size of government, the essential is what government does. 2303 02:32:07.760 --> 02:32:10.520 So it's the powers of government, not the size. And 2304 02:32:10.639 --> 02:32:14.360 it has a positive view that government is a proper 2305 02:32:14.440 --> 02:32:18.440 government is a positive, so it doesn't it doesn't classify 2306 02:32:18.520 --> 02:32:20.920 itself as minarchists. It doesn't think this is the right 2307 02:32:20.959 --> 02:32:25.719 way to look at the political spectrum. It's rather is 2308 02:32:25.959 --> 02:32:30.799 the use of force under objective control, which means is 2309 02:32:30.920 --> 02:32:37.000 it used only against the initiation of force, And proper 2310 02:32:37.079 --> 02:32:42.000 government yes, and improper government including no government, is the 2311 02:32:42.159 --> 02:32:47.680 use of force is not used only in retaliation by 2312 02:32:47.879 --> 02:32:53.239 objectively defined rules and principles. And anarchy is just before 2313 02:32:53.319 --> 02:32:56.719 everybody can use force when it strikes them as yeah, 2314 02:32:56.760 --> 02:33:00.479 we'd like to use force. That's not force under objective control. 2315 02:33:00.760 --> 02:33:04.920 And then the other is the I suspect the propertarianism 2316 02:33:05.120 --> 02:33:09.200 means of thinking of the essence of rights as they're 2317 02:33:09.200 --> 02:33:14.280 about property and no, so objectivism rejects that too. And 2318 02:33:14.760 --> 02:33:19.040 in part there was some mention about egoism. Rights are 2319 02:33:19.200 --> 02:33:26.479 moral concepts and the attempt to make property rights the 2320 02:33:26.799 --> 02:33:30.680 fundamental in regard to rights, not it's the right to 2321 02:33:30.840 --> 02:33:35.840 life and all the aspects, which includes earning and keeping property, 2322 02:33:36.479 --> 02:33:42.319 is an attempt to make rights non moral. It's like 2323 02:33:42.520 --> 02:33:46.120 property rights. Oh, you've made the stuff, so like somehow 2324 02:33:46.159 --> 02:33:49.479 it belongs to you, but belongs to you means you 2325 02:33:49.959 --> 02:33:52.559 are morally entitled to it, and then you need a 2326 02:33:52.719 --> 02:33:56.120 moral perspective and a moral evaluation. It's not like you've 2327 02:33:56.280 --> 02:33:58.520 made the stuff and now it's part of you. No, 2328 02:33:58.680 --> 02:34:01.040 it's not literally part of you, and somebody could take it. 2329 02:34:01.440 --> 02:34:03.680 The whole thing is they would be wrong to take it. 2330 02:34:03.799 --> 02:34:07.360 But wrong means morally wrong, So you need a moral perspective. 2331 02:34:07.479 --> 02:34:12.079 And the people and the libertarians really at least sort 2332 02:34:12.079 --> 02:34:15.360 of a wing or faction, tries to make everything about 2333 02:34:15.479 --> 02:34:19.680 property rights because they think of property rights as this 2334 02:34:20.159 --> 02:34:25.440 bypasses moral argument, moral evaluation, so now it doesn't actually 2335 02:34:25.920 --> 02:34:28.280 and if you try to bypass that, then you can't 2336 02:34:28.319 --> 02:34:31.680 get to a political philosophy, because a political philosophy says 2337 02:34:32.360 --> 02:34:36.120 this is the right way to organize I side, which 2338 02:34:36.200 --> 02:34:39.440 means this is the good way as against the bad ways, 2339 02:34:39.879 --> 02:34:41.200 and that's a moral perspective. 2340 02:34:41.440 --> 02:34:47.120 Yea excellent Thank you, Unca, We've kept you a two 2341 02:34:47.159 --> 02:34:52.959 and a half hours. Appreciate that. Thank you guys for 2342 02:34:52.959 --> 02:34:56.799 allow the questions. And I will see you guys tomorrow 2343 02:34:57.239 --> 02:35:01.959 at some point. Uncle. Probably i'll see you at okonn definitely, 2344 02:35:02.399 --> 02:35:06.159 but I'll see you probably in meetings on zoom before then. Yeah, 2345 02:35:06.159 --> 02:35:08.079 I think we have a meeting this week actually, yes, 2346 02:35:08.280 --> 02:35:14.559 on Thursday. All right, good, okay, good night, bye bye guys, 2347 02:35:14.920 --> 02:35:17.000 see you all tomorrowka 2348 02:35:20.079 --> 02:35:20.559 Mm hmm