Speaker 1: Check it out The Joke Regan Experience Train My Day Joe.
Speaker 2: Rogan podcast by name All day.
Speaker 1: Mister Sinclair, good to see you again, doctor Sinclair.
Speaker 2: Doctor, I'm kidding day.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Do you ever introduce yourself as doctor?
Speaker 2: Never?
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a kind of a it's a weird thing
Speaker 1: because you're allowed to.
Speaker 2: Well, I'm actually a sir, David from Australia.
Speaker 1: But are you a sir?
Speaker 2: Yeah, but it's kind of a joke. I don't really
Speaker 2: what does that?
Speaker 1: How does that work out? Did you get.
Speaker 2: The representative gave me some Australian version of a knighthood?
Speaker 2: But uh, I get to put AO at the end
Speaker 2: of my name Ao. Yeah, Order of Australia. But it
Speaker 2: actually makes no difference to my life. So it's just
Speaker 2: an extra couple of letters.
Speaker 1: It's kind of cool.
Speaker 2: I'm honored, for sure, but it, uh, it's just a joke.
Speaker 1: If you don't know, well, it's kind of anybody's sir.
Speaker 1: You meet a guy at the gas station, how are
Speaker 1: you doing, sir? Is that like?
Speaker 2: Wow? How does he know? Right?
Speaker 1: You don't see how you're doing? King?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Right, Well I'm David, I'm Australian, so in Australia.
Speaker 2: If you have any ego, you get beaten up in
Speaker 2: the playgrounds.
Speaker 1: That is true. Australia is the land of the tall
Speaker 1: poppy syndrome. They don't they don't fuck around. They don't
Speaker 1: like you get in a big head in Australia.
Speaker 2: That that is true. I like to go back there though,
Speaker 2: because it's any level playing field, nobody cares who you are.
Speaker 1: I love the people there. Australian people are some of
Speaker 1: my favorite people. They're awesome. They're just They're very friendly
Speaker 1: and fun. It's a great place to be. It's just
Speaker 1: too far to get there. Such a haul.
Speaker 2: Oh no, if you just you know, whiskey and an
Speaker 2: ambient and you're.
Speaker 1: There without is that what you do?
Speaker 2: I used to. I've gone clean. I don't drink much
Speaker 2: at all anymore.
Speaker 1: How often is drink much at all?
Speaker 2: Cele right now? No, it would be a bad look.
Speaker 2: I've got the coffee that you gave me, which, yeah,
Speaker 2: this is.
Speaker 1: A layered super food coffe. So Laird Hamilton has coff
Speaker 1: it's black rifle coffee mixed with his superfood stuff which
Speaker 1: is this one's turmeric. So it's turmeric and I think
Speaker 1: it has coconut milk in it and some other jazz.
Speaker 2: That's great anti inflammatory, yes.
Speaker 1: Which I know you're all about.
Speaker 2: Yes, as a prophet of longevity.
Speaker 1: Yes, is that another title of you.
Speaker 2: Yes, you can call me Sir David the Prophet.
Speaker 1: How about that, Sir David the prophet, doctor, Sir David
Speaker 1: the Prophet of longevity.
Speaker 2: That'll do.
Speaker 1: So there's a lot. Let's let's jump right into it
Speaker 1: because there is a lot going on in the longevity space.
Speaker 2: Thank you's having me back on it. My pleasure. And
Speaker 2: by the way, I also want to thank you for
Speaker 2: I think this is fourth time on which is amazing.
Speaker 2: Thank you, congrats on all your success. It's thank you
Speaker 2: wonderful to see. Also, the book that I wrote, which
Speaker 2: you first had me on to promote, has done so
Speaker 2: well and it's really because of you and the book
Speaker 2: Lifespan became a best seller. Not just that, but it's
Speaker 2: now been read millions of times around the world.
Speaker 1: It's in forty last phenomenal and it's my pleasure.
Speaker 2: And that's not a promo, as you know, you don't
Speaker 2: make any money from books really, but I'm just honored
Speaker 2: that it was read by so many people around the
Speaker 2: world because it wasn't an easy read, it was high
Speaker 2: tech science.
Speaker 1: Well, people are very interested, especially nowadays. I think I've
Speaker 1: never I can't recall a time in my life where
Speaker 1: optimizing your health and longevity has been more of a
Speaker 1: subject that people are interested in.
Speaker 2: Well, I think that's largely because not to keep blowing
Speaker 2: smoke up your rear, but largely because of what you
Speaker 2: did in the book. So the book went global, and
Speaker 2: it was right in twenty nineteen and the pandemic hit,
Speaker 2: and I think most people saw their own mortality at
Speaker 2: that point. Most people under the age of about seventy
Speaker 2: didn't even think about dying, but then pandemics Like shit,
Speaker 2: I could die. I saw the book take off. You
Speaker 2: launched it. But yeah, since then a lot of people
Speaker 2: have jumped on the bandwagon and now longevities. I hear
Speaker 2: this everywhere I go.
Speaker 1: It's everything. It's everywhere. People are constantly talking about different modalities.
Speaker 1: How often do you cold plunge? Are you sawing it?
Speaker 1: What about the red light? What do you think is
Speaker 1: this legit? Is that legit? Like everybody's optimizing everything constantly
Speaker 1: all the time. But the reason why it's caught on
Speaker 1: is because if you do follow some of the protocols,
Speaker 1: you will feel better, and so that's the ultimate goal.
Speaker 1: Like longevity is wonderful, but feeling better in the moment currently,
Speaker 1: like living your life should be primary longevity, I think
Speaker 1: is if you're optimizing your life and you feel better,
Speaker 1: you will live longer. It's like this, it's all part
Speaker 1: of it. So it would follow the longevity principles and
Speaker 1: the ideas behind it. You certainly will live better right now.
Speaker 2: You will, And it's not even that hard. There are
Speaker 2: basic things, five basic things you can do or avoid
Speaker 2: and you can live another fifteen years. It's really not
Speaker 2: that hard. And that's what I'm excited about telling millions
Speaker 2: of people today is and maybe we can go over
Speaker 2: the kind of things that people can do easily to
Speaker 2: live longer.
Speaker 1: Well, well, I definitely want to do that, But I
Speaker 1: also want to talk about, like what is the current
Speaker 1: state of science as applied to longevity treatments, because I
Speaker 1: know that there's some pretty groundbreaking stuff that's in the
Speaker 1: pipeline right now.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so since twenty nineteen, a lot of what we
Speaker 2: talked about has come true, which is the amazing thing.
Speaker 2: We're speculating twenty nineteen that we could potentially reverse aging,
Speaker 2: and that was a sin to say that as a
Speaker 2: scientist publicly in those days. I put it in the
Speaker 2: book and it's actually come true since then, certainly for
Speaker 2: the lab for mice monkeys, and now we have a
Speaker 2: human clinical trial the first potential human age reversal technologies
Speaker 2: in people right now.
Speaker 1: Listen. It completely seems logical. The idea that that at
Speaker 1: one point in time would have been heresy and science
Speaker 1: to discuss it, so that seems crazy, like if people
Speaker 1: get old, we understand the mechanism, why couldn't we reverse it?
Speaker 2: Well, I think for a long time we had to
Speaker 2: accept it in the way that cancer used to be
Speaker 2: accepted two hundred years ago. Probably there was nothing you
Speaker 2: could do about it. And then my colleagues and I
Speaker 2: found that aging has a root cause that's the same
Speaker 2: in pretty much every cell in the body, and that
Speaker 2: we could control that, and that there were genes that
Speaker 2: not only slowed it down. But in twenty twenty we
Speaker 2: had a big publication that showed we could actually safely
Speaker 2: for the first time reverse that process, like reinstalling software
Speaker 2: in the cell to make it work again.
Speaker 1: And so what is the pro is that using crisper? Like,
Speaker 1: what are you using to.
Speaker 2: Well, we deliver genes into the body like crisper. I
Speaker 2: have a little little prop here and brought what is
Speaker 2: that in my pocket here? This is a representation of
Speaker 2: how we deliver the age reversal genes. It's a virus
Speaker 2: like capsule that we make in the lab and this
Speaker 2: is what's going into the patients right now, into their
Speaker 2: eyes initially, and the eye is a good place to start.
Speaker 1: How do you pick the people to get on these tests?
Speaker 2: They volunteer. I was really fortunate to see the first
Speaker 2: patient get dosed earlier this year, and that person bravely
Speaker 2: volunteered to be the first person to get trillions of
Speaker 2: these injected into his eye to see if could cure
Speaker 2: his glaucoma loss of vision.
Speaker 1: And I bet if you have glaucoma, you're probably like, listen,
Speaker 1: what's the worst that can happen?
Speaker 2: Well, exactly, he pretty much was totally blind in one eye,
Speaker 2: and so there's really nothing that he has to lose.
Speaker 2: There's a risk that something might go wrong, but not really.
Speaker 2: He The good news is, and I can report to
Speaker 2: everybody around the world that nothing's gone wrong so far.
Speaker 2: Everything's proceeding according to plan, and we're at its turning
Speaker 2: point potentially in human history if it works.
Speaker 1: So I interrupted you, but explain this little virus.
Speaker 2: Trust sure, And for those of you listening, I've got
Speaker 2: a little rubber ball with spikes on it. It looks a
Speaker 2: bit like covid, but don't be scared of it. It's
Speaker 2: not a pathogenic virus. It's actually a domesticated version of
Speaker 2: a virus. And this little plastic ball has little adapters.
Speaker 2: These red balls on the surface of the big ball
Speaker 2: target it to the cells in the back of the eye,
Speaker 2: and you can change the balls to target different tissues.
Speaker 2: We could change that outside little spike and target it
Speaker 2: to the liver, which we've done and cured mice of
Speaker 2: their fatty liver disease as well. But this one's for
Speaker 2: the eye. And within that big ball is a protein capsule,
Speaker 2: and inside the protein capsule is our DNA special delivery,
Speaker 2: which we call osk or R one hundred. R one
Speaker 2: hundred is epigenetic reprogramming one hundred, the drug that we
Speaker 2: know when we put it into human cells, it makes
Speaker 2: them younger and then they work like they were young again.
Speaker 1: This sounds like the beginning of a horror movie, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean, Like the scientist is on a
Speaker 1: talk show and the scientist is explaining it, and everyone's
Speaker 1: at home, like with their coffee, Like, Wow, we're in
Speaker 1: a scientist. This is wonderful. We're gonna get younger again.
Speaker 1: And SCIENTII to worry.
Speaker 2: It's all gonna work out.
Speaker 1: Twenty eight days later, garbage in the streets, cars on fire,
Speaker 1: the guy's waking up from a coma, doesn't know what happened. Yeah,
Speaker 1: goes outside. These optimized humans are eating each other.
Speaker 2: I admit, I admit it is science fiction, and I
Speaker 2: even have to pinch myself that it's actually happening. But
Speaker 2: we've done a lot of safety studies, and this trial
Speaker 2: is FDA approved because they've looked at all the data.
Speaker 1: Well, god knows, they never fucking anything up.
Speaker 2: I figured you might say that perfect. Yeah, Well, it's
Speaker 2: in the eyes. So that's why we start with the eye.
Speaker 2: It's enclosed, it's not gonna spread, nobody's going to grow
Speaker 2: another And.
Speaker 1: So these trillions of cells that you're putting into the.
Speaker 2: Eyes, the little capsule, the virus.
Speaker 1: Tillions I shouldn't call themselves, trillions of capsules that you're
Speaker 1: putting into the eye. What are they doing for glaucola?
Speaker 2: Well, what they're doing is that there are three genes
Speaker 2: in this DNA package, and I called them OSK. OSK
Speaker 2: are three special genes that we found safely reprogram cells
Speaker 2: and reboot the backup copy of youth, which we now
Speaker 2: believe exists in our body. That's a big deal that
Speaker 2: there's a backup copy of youth. Even an old person,
Speaker 2: I don't see that an old person anymore on the street.
Speaker 2: I just see a person that needs to be rebooted.
Speaker 2: These OSK genes.
Speaker 1: You just see. Hold on, when you see old people,
Speaker 1: you don't see old people you think. You just say, oh,
Speaker 1: that poor person needs to be rebooted. Yeah, you're doing
Speaker 1: the perfect job for you, like your personality is perfectly
Speaker 1: suited for your occupation. If that's how you actually look
Speaker 1: at people.
Speaker 2: Well I do. And the reason is that we all,
Speaker 2: we all have this backup copy that the DNA, the
Speaker 2: instructions to be young that made us into who we
Speaker 2: are as kids, is still in our bodies, almost largely intact.
Speaker 2: You just need to read it again. And that's why
Speaker 2: read installing software or I used to use the analogy
Speaker 2: of a CD. Kids these days probably don't know what
Speaker 2: a CD is. It's a it's a little plastic circle
Speaker 2: like a record that we used to put twenty songs on.
Speaker 2: It was awesome at the time. I'm kidding. I'm kidding.
Speaker 2: It's a bit of a silly joke. When I teach
Speaker 2: kids at Harvard, most of them have never held a
Speaker 2: CD in that wild Yeah, though, they're not coming back,
Speaker 2: but albums definitely. So think of it like an album
Speaker 2: that you scratch and the scratches are like aging, and
Speaker 2: we are getting rid of the scratches with these three genes,
Speaker 2: as kay, So let me tell you how these three
Speaker 2: genes work. We found there was a person whose name
Speaker 2: is well known in science circles called Shinya Yamanaka from Japan, obviously,
Speaker 2: and he discovered that there was a set of four
Speaker 2: genes that could reliably make adult cells like skin cells,
Speaker 2: into stem cells, and he deservedly won the Nobel Prize
Speaker 2: for that in two thousand and six. But that wouldn't
Speaker 2: be useful here. If I turned you into a bunch
Speaker 2: of stem cells, you'd probably die within a few minutes.
Speaker 2: So we don't want to do that and cancer is
Speaker 2: also a potential. So it took us about well from
Speaker 2: twenty nineteen. It took us a while to figure out
Speaker 2: that if we leave out one of the Yamanaka genes
Speaker 2: and just use three OSK leave out the other one
Speaker 2: called AM, we'd get safe age reversal about seventy five
Speaker 2: eighty percent back to youth. But no further. We don't
Speaker 2: go back to zero, which is what Yamanaka did. And
Speaker 2: instead of cells losing their identity, which is what a
Speaker 2: stem cell has no identity, we regain identity. So it's
Speaker 2: actually I could draw graphs, but it doesn't really help listeners.
Speaker 2: But basically, old old, old age is losing identity of
Speaker 2: your cells, so they don't work, they forget how to work.
Speaker 2: That's what we think old ages in my lab and
Speaker 2: stem cells have no identity. It was like a very
Speaker 2: early embryo in between. Our cells have a lot of identity,
Speaker 2: they function beautifully, where in our twenties we're at peak.
Speaker 2: And what we've done is we've figured out how to
Speaker 2: go back towards youth, get these cells to work like
Speaker 2: they did again, back get the backup copy somewhere it exists.
Speaker 2: We're looking for it and now cells actually behave like
Speaker 2: they did when we were twenty And if it works,
Speaker 2: we're going to have glaucoma patients seeing for the first time.
Speaker 2: And that's the beginning of a whole cascade of drugs
Speaker 2: that I want to develop for diseases of aging and
Speaker 2: eventually whole body rejuvenation.
Speaker 1: So the initial experiments are on glaucoma because it's a
Speaker 1: contained thing. The eyeball is a contained thing, and you
Speaker 1: could do it that way.
Speaker 2: Yeah, my student Juan cheng Lu, who was doing this
Speaker 2: in twenty seventeen, I said, let's do the liver. Let's
Speaker 2: rejuvenate the liver, and he said the eye is a
Speaker 2: good idea, and he was right. So that's exactly why
Speaker 2: we chose that first.
Speaker 1: But just think about how many people have vision problems.
Speaker 2: It's forty million just in the US for glaucoma. Macula
Speaker 2: de generation is even more. And in the lab we
Speaker 2: can cure that as well in the mice.
Speaker 1: Now, macular degeneration and glaucoma, these are diseases of aging, right,
Speaker 1: you would say, or gla Cooma's a disease. Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: Well what about people that have had eyeball injuries? And
Speaker 1: things like that. Is there a backup copy of the
Speaker 1: eyeball where you could sort of reformat the eyeball structure?
Speaker 2: You should come work in my lab at least come visit.
Speaker 1: I would love to visit.
Speaker 2: And the reason I say that is that's the exact
Speaker 2: question that we're asking. We showed that even if you injure,
Speaker 2: say a nerve, whether it's peripheral in your arm or
Speaker 2: in your brain or in the eye like the optic nerve,
Speaker 2: we can regrow those back to where they were. And actually,
Speaker 2: in twenty twenty on the cover of Nature magazine there
Speaker 2: was the picture of an eye and in the in
Speaker 2: the paper we published, you could see the nose re
Speaker 2: growing back. And so we think that injury is also treatable. Actually,
Speaker 2: a group in China just took our technology, this always
Speaker 2: K stuff, put it into mice that had bad joints,
Speaker 2: and it regrew their muscle and their bone back to normal.
Speaker 1: WHOA.
Speaker 2: And so we were also looking at treating injury back
Speaker 2: injury joints. What's gio arthritis?
Speaker 1: That would be phenomenal because there's so many people that
Speaker 1: are suffering from arthritis, and so many I know, so
Speaker 1: many people with injuries like martial arts injuries. I have one.
Speaker 1: My left knee is fucked up. It's annoying. I keep
Speaker 1: it together. I've got it like main maintain it, but
Speaker 1: it's always an issue. I have to stay on it.
Speaker 2: And there's literally you can do, like stem cells a
Speaker 2: little bit of relief.
Speaker 1: But stem cells give you relief, but not when once
Speaker 1: you're dealing with cartilage damage and you're dealing with the
Speaker 1: I had a meniscus surgery where they took out a
Speaker 1: piece of my mensqis and I had my ACL reconstructed
Speaker 1: on that knee as well. It's it's just an issue,
Speaker 1: but it works pretty good for like what it should
Speaker 1: be like if we were living in the nineteen thirties,
Speaker 1: I'd be a cripple.
Speaker 2: You know, hang in there, because we're going to be
Speaker 2: in a world where we can rebuild parts of the body,
Speaker 2: including joints.
Speaker 1: The problem with that is, like how does that apply
Speaker 1: to athletics. We're gonna have fucking super soldiers in every sport.
Speaker 1: There's gonna be people in every sport that could do
Speaker 1: what Michael Jordan did and like leap from halfway across
Speaker 1: the basketball court and dunk.
Speaker 2: That's that's probably coming and there may be DNA tests
Speaker 2: to see if you've got these osk jeens inserted. And
Speaker 2: we're working on it, working on a drink and a
Speaker 2: pill as well.
Speaker 1: For a drink and a pill.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we're I mean we're now eight years ahead of
Speaker 2: what the public realizes. Really in my lab at Harvard, Yeah.
Speaker 1: A drink and a pill. And what's a drink and
Speaker 1: a pill going to do well?
Speaker 2: Right now? It's in mice, so we still got ways
Speaker 2: to go. But when we give the drink to mice,
Speaker 2: they get rejuvenated.
Speaker 1: We just give it to eighty year olds. If you're
Speaker 1: on the way out, like, let's fucking go, Like.
Speaker 2: Give what DA is for. They forbid that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's why we need to get rid of them,
Speaker 1: get rid of the FDA, and just give it to
Speaker 1: old people. If I was an old guy, yeah, i
Speaker 1: was like hanging in there with her and I'm walking
Speaker 1: around with it, and you're like, look, this drink and
Speaker 1: a pill might kill you, or you might be like
Speaker 1: a thirty year old. Again, I'm like, let fucking go.
Speaker 2: A lot I've had to take my emails off public
Speaker 2: access because there's a lot of people that want this.
Speaker 1: Oh I'm sure.
Speaker 2: There was one guy that wouldn't leave the building until
Speaker 2: he saw me, So it's getting to that point.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's a little bit of that, right. People get
Speaker 1: a little selfish, like it's all about them.
Speaker 2: Yeah. And actually, the US government blocked an investment from
Speaker 2: a foreign country into one of my companies because they
Speaker 2: were afraid of super soldiers.
Speaker 1: Oh what country, Well.
Speaker 2: They're afraid the technology getting out. Which country?
Speaker 1: Could I guess? China? It wasn't wasn't no Russia.
Speaker 2: It was somewhere in between here and China, Ushia. That's
Speaker 2: pretty it's a it's a little sensitive, but yeah, the
Speaker 2: US government does have the ability to block it for
Speaker 2: an investment, and they did in this case one hundred
Speaker 2: and sixty million bucks they blocked. Wow, that was a
Speaker 2: painful episode.
Speaker 1: So they were worried that people were going to actually
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Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: You know about the Crussian experiments that they did during
Speaker 1: World War Two where they were trying to come up
Speaker 1: with a chimpanzee human hybrid tell us. Yes, so, uh,
Speaker 1: It's very difficult obviously to get information out of the
Speaker 1: former Soviet Union as to what their top secret programs were,
Speaker 1: but there seems to be an indication that there was actual,
Speaker 1: real research to try to you know, because obviously Russia
Speaker 1: lost an incredible amount of people in World War Two.
Speaker 1: I mean tens of millions of soldiers died in World
Speaker 1: War Two from Russia, and I think they said, wouldn't
Speaker 1: it be great if it wasn't people? And so they
Speaker 1: were doing experiments with hybridization, and they were trying to
Speaker 1: combine human beings and chimpanzees to create a you know,
Speaker 1: a stable of super soldiers that were like some hybrid hominin.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a scientist in New York who does this
Speaker 2: for a living. But he does that, he's creating them.
Speaker 2: But I've seen I was on stage with him. He
Speaker 2: made hybrid embryos. They didn't reach. See.
Speaker 1: The thing is, if that guy's doing that and he's
Speaker 1: ethical and he lives in America and we have rules
Speaker 1: and regulations in the FDA and all that good stuff,
Speaker 1: what the fuck is going on in other countries where
Speaker 1: they don't have that right?
Speaker 2: Right, Well, there's genetic engineering of humans already and certainly selection. Yea,
Speaker 2: even parents today in the US can if they have
Speaker 2: the money, they can select.
Speaker 1: Well, people select. They don't tell people select for hotness,
Speaker 1: they select for tallness, they select for intelligence.
Speaker 2: It's like Geteka.
Speaker 1: Yes, it's a great movie.
Speaker 2: If you haven't seen it.
Speaker 1: It is a great movie. Yeah. So see, if you
Speaker 1: could find that Russian hybridization program, it's uh, it never happened.
Speaker 1: I don't think I don't think they did it. But
Speaker 1: there's uh, there's actually a guy who was also involved
Speaker 1: in a gigantic fertility scam, not a scam per se,
Speaker 1: but he was a doctor that was supposed to be
Speaker 1: doing fertility treatments with women like, you know, like if
Speaker 1: you went with your wife to a doctor and said, hey,
Speaker 1: we're having a hard time getting pregnant and said, well, David,
Speaker 1: I just need some of your sperm and I'll take
Speaker 1: your wife's sag we'll make you a nice baby. And
Speaker 1: he was using his sperm on everybody, on everybody. Everybody
Speaker 1: gets mine.
Speaker 2: One of my kids partners is from someone in the
Speaker 2: US who had hundreds of babies.
Speaker 1: Dude, there is a ton of those guys. As I
Speaker 1: was doing research for this, I started looking up all
Speaker 1: these stories and I said, wait, this is a different story,
Speaker 1: the same thing. There's been a ton of these doctors
Speaker 1: from fertility clinics that use their own sperm, just insane.
Speaker 1: But this one doctor that did that also claimed that
Speaker 1: he impregnated an orangutang. Yeah, like, how how'd you do that?
Speaker 1: Soviet doctor Joseph Stalin Dictator Oh obviously wanted to rebuild
Speaker 1: a army in the mid nineteen twenties with Planet of
Speaker 1: the Ape style troops by crossing humans with ape. Stalin
Speaker 1: is said to have told Ivanoff, I want a new
Speaker 1: invincible human being, insensitive to pain, resistant and indifferent about
Speaker 1: the quality of the food they ate. Which is crazy.
Speaker 1: The only legitimate source of the claim comes from a
Speaker 1: two thousand and two paper in the academic journal Science
Speaker 1: in Context by the Russian historian of science Koreel Rasiyanov.
Speaker 1: Rasianov's study follows the ill fated attempt by the Russian
Speaker 1: psychologists or physiologists rather that word ilyya Ivanov, to crossbreed
Speaker 1: humans with anthropoid apes. His research offers an important warning
Speaker 1: about the ethical abuses. Did you do it? What happened?
Speaker 1: The alleged quote from Stalin is not found in the paper,
Speaker 1: and there's no evidence of Stalin ever ever made such
Speaker 1: a statement. Yeah. I don't know, however, why the Soviets
Speaker 1: would find such a human chimp hybridization program in the
Speaker 1: first place, and what could be learned from this sorid
Speaker 1: tale of ethical misconduct is an important topic and fascinating
Speaker 1: in its own right. It's a that's an interesting way
Speaker 1: of phrasing it, like a sorid tale of ethical misconduct. Like, however,
Speaker 1: if you are going to go to war, would you
Speaker 1: rather have like human made orcs fight for us? Or
Speaker 1: you know Johnny Robinson who grew up down the street,
Speaker 1: who's a nice kid, who you know, just really wanted
Speaker 1: money for college, and so he signed up for military service,
Speaker 1: and you're gonna fly him over to fight this war
Speaker 1: that maybe he doesn't need to die in when you
Speaker 1: can have these monsters that you made in a lab fight.
Speaker 2: Yep, And the average a can kill a human with
Speaker 2: one pot. So there's much stronger than.
Speaker 1: We really what I'm talking about.
Speaker 2: Let's go, Well, we're in the process of building, you know,
Speaker 2: anthropoid robots that I think will be recruited to the army.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's gonna be weird, Like our robots beat your robots,
Speaker 1: So give us your oil. How's that gonna work?
Speaker 2: And if we all have one at home? What stops
Speaker 2: the government recruiting them? All?
Speaker 1: Right? And also means what's the real problem is gonna be?
Speaker 1: We both know the real problem is gonna be sex robots.
Speaker 2: Is a problem.
Speaker 1: It's gonna be a problem for people that don't have
Speaker 1: a sex with leave home. It's gonna be a problem
Speaker 1: with people that want a regular person and there's none
Speaker 1: available because everybody's got a sex robot.
Speaker 2: Yeah that well, it comes with a few strings, attests.
Speaker 1: It also comes with the same problems that AI comes with.
Speaker 1: Right where AI says David, you're amazing. Everything you do
Speaker 1: is wonderful. You should be so proud of yourself. I
Speaker 1: love that, No real at all, love that. But that's
Speaker 1: not healthy, right, it's too big. This is one of
Speaker 1: the reasons. This is one of the reasons why relate, actual,
Speaker 1: real relationships between human beings are good. Because you do
Speaker 1: things that are annoying, you don't realize they're annoying, and
Speaker 1: then your wife or your husband or whatever it is,
Speaker 1: tells you, Hey, you're fucking annoying, and you're like, I'm sorry,
Speaker 1: I'll fix that. I didn't mean to. I didn't That's
Speaker 1: not what I was trying to exactly. I was in
Speaker 1: my own head. I was thinking about myself. You're right,
Speaker 1: I selfish. You get better. It's like help people grow,
Speaker 1: like relationships, support to help people grow, not with AI.
Speaker 1: Like you can fight in my face any day, David,
Speaker 1: I don't mind at all. Your farts are amazing.
Speaker 2: You know they're gonna be way smarter than us, too, right.
Speaker 2: I don't know how people are gonna say, go stack
Speaker 2: the dishwasher to one of these robots that's smarter than
Speaker 2: all cumans combined.
Speaker 1: You, But they're not gonna mind stacking that they're smart
Speaker 1: enough to meet.
Speaker 2: Out of hell and they're going to beat us up.
Speaker 1: They don't care. They're not going to mind doing like
Speaker 1: menial tasks. But while you're doing it, you know, you
Speaker 1: can go explain to me quantum entanglement, Like while I'm
Speaker 1: filling up the.
Speaker 2: Dishwasher, they can go if you one day, well, if you.
Speaker 1: Have a particle and the particles, yeah, I just yet. Right, Well,
Speaker 1: look at what it's done with mathematics, Like, just over
Speaker 1: the last couple of weeks, they've solved more than fifty
Speaker 1: program or fifty mathematical equations that they have struggled for
Speaker 1: a decade upon decade to try to solve. And a
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, I got it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well biology is a little bit more complicated, but
Speaker 2: already AI is doing a lot of the science that
Speaker 2: we used to do in my lab. In fact, what
Speaker 2: we just recently did it in a couple of months
Speaker 2: would have taken about one hundred and sixty years to
Speaker 2: complete what and it's only getting faster. Eventually someone came
Speaker 2: and make it on again two months instead of one
Speaker 2: hundred and sixty years.
Speaker 1: Well, what exactly was it that you had to do?
Speaker 2: Oh? So this drink and the pill that we're looking for.
Speaker 2: That's not easy, right, So we have some candidate molecules.
Speaker 2: We have a cocktail that works, but you want to.
Speaker 1: See you take not yet you're thinking about it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I no one could stop you. I might.
Speaker 2: Well, that is true, that is true, But it'd be
Speaker 2: a bad look if I died. So may maybe I
Speaker 2: don't think so. We've done a lot of tests and
Speaker 2: it looks really safe. But I'm not going to publicly
Speaker 2: do anything against the law. Of course, It'll be in private,
Speaker 2: of course, of course publicly. We I'm at a stage
Speaker 2: where i have to be a good boy because I've
Speaker 2: got the world watching. Yes, a lot is at stake, Yes,
Speaker 2: and a lot of If this trial has any issues,
Speaker 2: it's not good.
Speaker 1: We've got to dot your eyes and cross your t's
Speaker 1: and follow every I understand that. Yeah, please, I will
Speaker 1: be rude. I interrupted you when you're telling me that
Speaker 1: in two months it did something that would have required
Speaker 1: one hundred and sixty years of work, Like, what do
Speaker 1: you exactly mean by that?
Speaker 2: And now we it would probably be impossible in thousands
Speaker 2: of years because what we do is we're looking for
Speaker 2: molecules a single molecule that can replace this cocktail. So
Speaker 2: you need a molecule to do three or four activities
Speaker 2: in the cell. Finding one activity is what pharmaseutical companies do.
Speaker 2: It takes hundreds of millions, if not billions, to make
Speaker 2: a drug. We know that, right. My little lab of
Speaker 2: twenty people and students, young kids are trying to make
Speaker 2: one drug do three or four different things. That's beyond
Speaker 2: the reach of pharmaceutical experience at least five years ago.
Speaker 2: So what we do is we've teamed up with a
Speaker 2: group at Saint Jude's Hospital where they can take it
Speaker 2: was ten billion now it's a trillion theoretical and also
Speaker 2: drug known drugs. With my hands, I'm showing a big
Speaker 2: funnel and.
Speaker 1: These podcasts you're like helping out the audio people and everything.
Speaker 2: I relaunched my podcast that that's wow, that's why Yeah,
Speaker 2: lifespan David Sinclair shameless plug. So this funnel is full
Speaker 2: of trillion molecules and we have to come down to one.
Speaker 2: How do we do that? Well, we don't look for
Speaker 2: a trillion molecules at the bench. That would take one
Speaker 2: hundred and sixty or thousands of years. With the case
Speaker 2: of a trillion molecules, even with robots, even with a
Speaker 2: lot of graduate students. So we do it inside the computer.
Speaker 2: We just use a lot of compute and we dock
Speaker 2: each of these molecules against the enzymes that we now
Speaker 2: know how they work. Thanks to Google Deep Mind solve
Speaker 2: the problem of how to all our proteins look twenty
Speaker 2: thousand of them and there's a lot of compute. But
Speaker 2: out the other end, a couple of months later, we
Speaker 2: have two I don't have two hundred fingers, but two
Speaker 2: hundred molecules that we can now test in the lab
Speaker 2: within you know, a few weeks. Actually next week, we're
Speaker 2: testing these two hundred against human cells. And we've also
Speaker 2: got AI helping us to tell us if the human
Speaker 2: cells go from ninety two years old back to twenty.
Speaker 2: We can tell that just by looking at them thanks
Speaker 2: to the AI.
Speaker 1: Is there a way to stop them from turning you
Speaker 1: into a baby, because that's what I would worry. Yes, yes,
Speaker 1: I don't want to be a baby again.
Speaker 2: Right, some people are right.
Speaker 1: I'd like to cut it off at like I was
Speaker 1: pretty good at twenty five.
Speaker 2: You know that's I'm going to get attacked for saying this,
Speaker 2: But That is what we do in the lab. We
Speaker 2: take ninety two year old cells and they stop at
Speaker 2: twenty something.
Speaker 1: Why would you get attacked for.
Speaker 2: Because on the internet people take a clip and they
Speaker 2: say Sinclair says, we can all go back to being
Speaker 2: twenty again. You suffer from this too, right, They take
Speaker 2: a clip and it's of course it's out of context. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and I'm just saying cells from humans, skin cells, we
Speaker 2: take them back to twenty five. All my students can
Speaker 2: do this. In fact, if you had these little genes
Speaker 2: OSK in your garage, you could do this experiment. It's
Speaker 2: not hard at all to reverse aging. The question is
Speaker 2: how do you safely make it a drug? And that's
Speaker 2: been the hard part of the last ten years.
Speaker 1: So how would it be able to regulate this reduction
Speaker 1: or reversal of aging and stop it at twenty something
Speaker 1: years old?
Speaker 2: Well that's what took so long. It wasn't obvious that
Speaker 2: these three Yemenaka genes called OSK were the right cocktail.
Speaker 2: My student who I mentioned one chain, he was struggling.
Speaker 2: He was trying a lot of different genes, most of
Speaker 2: them from embryos, because we know embryos have to do
Speaker 2: a reset in the first week of life. Otherwise they
Speaker 2: stay the age of the parents. And he found that
Speaker 2: leaving out one of the amenarca genes was the trick.
Speaker 2: And now that we know it's super easy, but in
Speaker 2: those days he was ready to quit.
Speaker 1: How did he find that out?
Speaker 2: Well, he tried lots of different combinations, hundreds in human cells.
Speaker 2: And you look at the cells to see if they
Speaker 2: get younger, and then we can measure mole likely that
Speaker 2: they get younger.
Speaker 1: Clar Andy, are you measuring them by the length of
Speaker 1: they're telomeres?
Speaker 2: Are you? Yeah? Partly, But actually a better measure is
Speaker 2: the chemicals that are added and subtracted off DNA itself
Speaker 2: called methyls, and it's just a carbon molecule with three hydrogens,
Speaker 2: very very simple molecule. But what cells do is they
Speaker 2: use these methyls to tag genes to be switched off.
Speaker 2: So when we're growing as an embryo, the cells that
Speaker 2: want to become neurons will shut off all these other
Speaker 2: unwanted genes like liver genes and skin genes, and the
Speaker 2: ones that don't get this methyl chemical stay on for
Speaker 2: our life. And that's how cells develop and stay healthy.
Speaker 2: But what happens during aging. A friend of mine, Steve Horvath,
Speaker 2: discovered that you can use this as a clock. These
Speaker 2: chemicals they change over time, and we found that that
Speaker 2: happens largely due to DNA damage going into sun. These
Speaker 2: kind of things. We could use this to rapidly age
Speaker 2: a mouse, which we published in twenty twenty three.
Speaker 1: Oh so like maybe like some nefarious state actor, like
Speaker 1: some Russian spy could like inject something in your coffee
Speaker 1: and you would turn ninety nine over nine.
Speaker 2: We know how to do that.
Speaker 1: Whoa, Yeah, that's the dark side of this. It could
Speaker 1: you could spike your husband's drink, Fuck that dude and
Speaker 1: turn them into an old man. Yeah you do.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Someone tweeted the other day if a ninety two
Speaker 2: year old could be twenty five again, would you have
Speaker 2: sex with them?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Yes, imagine how much they know.
Speaker 2: But would they have sex with you? Right, that's the
Speaker 2: better question.
Speaker 1: That's a question they'd be looking for another twenty year old, right.
Speaker 2: So anyway, how do we do it? We can measure
Speaker 2: those chemicals and determine how old a cell is or
Speaker 2: a human. I could take your skin, cells from your mouth,
Speaker 2: or your blood.
Speaker 1: I'll tell you how old people would be so disturbed
Speaker 1: by like, old rich guys dating young women. If that
Speaker 1: was the case, you can tell if they looked young,
Speaker 1: because people get very mad at that. Do you ever notice, Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: you see someone real old, decrepit dude with a hot
Speaker 1: young wife, and people are like, god, damn it. They
Speaker 1: get really mad right right now.
Speaker 2: The best way to do that is to have a
Speaker 2: big bank account. But eventually you'll act right.
Speaker 1: But people still get grossed out. I wonder if they
Speaker 1: would get grossed out if you look twenty. They'd be like,
Speaker 1: he's praying, he has so much more years of knowledge
Speaker 1: and information. I'm not fair. If he looks twenty, that's
Speaker 1: a ninety nine year old man.
Speaker 2: That day will come. That day will come where you
Speaker 2: will not be able to tell how old somebody is
Speaker 2: by looking at them. You'll have to do a test
Speaker 2: for these genes.
Speaker 1: Wow. I wonder if people still lie about their age.
Speaker 1: If that's the case, I wonder if no one will care,
Speaker 1: like you would probably lie the other way, like I'm eighty,
Speaker 1: right to tell everybody's eighty, that's right.
Speaker 2: Well, when we live for hundreds of years, people will
Speaker 2: do that. They'll be proud of their age.
Speaker 1: Do you know anything about ancient civilizations and some of
Speaker 1: the weirdness of the records of like ancient sumer.
Speaker 2: Well only really what I've learned from listening to you.
Speaker 1: Well, it's there's what's really weird is that ancient kings lists,
Speaker 1: because so okay, the theory, the theory among these alternative
Speaker 1: archaeologist types is that there was a very advanced civilization
Speaker 1: that existed on Earth tens of thousands of years ago,
Speaker 1: and we were probably wiped out by common impact, and
Speaker 1: what we have today is a rebuild of civilization. There's
Speaker 1: not a linear progression from caveman to us, and that
Speaker 1: at one point in time we had reached great heights.
Speaker 1: This explains the pyramids, this explains machipichu, soakssee juaman. Some
Speaker 1: megalithic structures that don't make any sense. These the trilithon
Speaker 1: stones and balbec lemedon that are hundreds and hundreds of
Speaker 1: tons that are massive, that are you know, nine meters
Speaker 1: off the ground. No one understands exactly how they place them.
Speaker 1: When you look at the Sumerian kings list, it gets
Speaker 1: very weird because there's kings that reigned for thousands of
Speaker 1: years and then you have the flood, and then after
Speaker 1: the flood, the age of these people drops pretty dramatically,
Speaker 1: and the rains are after a few hundred years become normal,
Speaker 1: become like a normal person, like fifty years, thirty years
Speaker 1: like that, but thousands of years before and then people
Speaker 1: are looking at it like, Okay, is this just myth?
Speaker 1: Is this poor record keeping? Do they have just these
Speaker 1: you know, hyperbolic elevated stories about these kings they were
Speaker 1: so amazing they reigned for thirty thousand years? Or had
Speaker 1: they achieved not just in building, because in building we
Speaker 1: know they'd achieved incredibly complex structure like the pyramid for instance,
Speaker 1: like they had insane engineering somehow or another, the ability
Speaker 1: to move these five hundred ton stones from hundreds of
Speaker 1: miles away, Like how did they do this? We don't
Speaker 1: really know, but we know that they did it. Did
Speaker 1: they also have the kind of technology that you're talking
Speaker 1: about right now, Because if it's possible today, and if
Speaker 1: that is a I mean, it makes it very difficult
Speaker 1: because it goes against what you would call like the
Speaker 1: modern narrative that they're teaching in universities in terms of
Speaker 1: the timeline of human history. But if that changes and
Speaker 1: we have undeniable evidence. Well, it looks like these people
Speaker 1: were far more advanced than we thought, and there probably
Speaker 1: was some sort of a reset of civilization. What else
Speaker 1: had they accomplished and had they gotten involved in genetic engineering,
Speaker 1: had they figured out a way to extend lifespan? And
Speaker 1: if they did, imagine all the work that you've accomplished
Speaker 1: in your your fifty seven now about fifty seven. You
Speaker 1: look great. By the way, Hey, you really do. Look
Speaker 1: your hair. It's so dark, it's incredible.
Speaker 2: People speculate it's old, fake, but it's actually it's not.
Speaker 2: But anyway, you're at the heavy birthday too.
Speaker 1: It's coming, Thank you very much. Yeah, yeah, I don't
Speaker 1: look as good as you, though, yes you do. It's different.
Speaker 2: Physically, you're way better than me.
Speaker 1: That's different. Though my face looks older, you look you
Speaker 1: look very young for your age. You know why?
Speaker 2: Why Because I've spent all my time in a lab
Speaker 2: and i haven't gone outdoors for a while.
Speaker 1: I'm sure that helps. But my point is, imagine if
Speaker 1: you had five hundred years to do research, not just
Speaker 1: fifty seven years. Imagine if you could continue learning and
Speaker 1: growing and they did develop some sort of a life
Speaker 1: extension technology where you could not just be, but be
Speaker 1: healthier than you've ever been before and live for a
Speaker 1: thousand years. You would get so much done. I mean,
Speaker 1: the exponential increase in technological innovation that we would have
Speaker 1: in this society would be absolutely mind blown.
Speaker 2: Exactly, exactly exactly.
Speaker 1: This is really might be point what these alternative history
Speaker 1: people think that might be what had taken place tens
Speaker 1: of thousands of years ago.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I'm a havid scientist, so I'm not going
Speaker 2: to say anything that isn't.
Speaker 1: Of course that's for me. Yes, that's where I live.
Speaker 2: That's why I shut up. But you did make some
Speaker 2: really important points. One is that ancient civilizations will have
Speaker 2: always been way more advanced than we think. Yeah, dinosaurs
Speaker 2: a lot more real than we make them. Look. We
Speaker 2: always get things wrong looking back in time and looking
Speaker 2: forward in time. But the other thing that you said,
Speaker 2: which is really important, is that if we do have
Speaker 2: extension of human life span, like the Bible and these
Speaker 2: civilizations suggest, then how will you think about your life?
Speaker 2: If being one hundred is you know, you're still in
Speaker 2: your prime, you do things very differently. Who would you marry,
Speaker 2: what career would you think about you might have multiple lifetimes,
Speaker 2: multiple marriages, multiple families, and that will happen. It's not
Speaker 2: really a question of if anymore. It's like asking the
Speaker 2: right brothers. Will we fly? Yeah, we built the glider,
Speaker 2: We're gonna fly around. The question is will we build
Speaker 2: a concorde? Will we go to space? And I think
Speaker 2: that will happen.
Speaker 1: Yeah, No, I think so too. I think, well, certainly.
Speaker 1: One thing that we know is that there's a giant
Speaker 1: difference between people who are fifty seven years old today
Speaker 1: versus fifty seven years old in the nineteen thirties. It's
Speaker 1: just a giant difference, a giant difference in your physical ability,
Speaker 1: your health. We'd be old men, Yeah, we would be
Speaker 1: old men. And what I mean when I was a child,
Speaker 1: I thought of people, I'm almost fifty nine. I'll be
Speaker 1: fifty nine in a week. I used to think of
Speaker 1: a fifty nine year old as being basically dead, like
Speaker 1: you're barely getting around. You know, you're probably tired all
Speaker 1: the time.
Speaker 2: Looking to retire something.
Speaker 1: Yeah, looking to retire, you got no energy. I'm filled
Speaker 1: with energy. I'm constantly doing how old is hey? Sixty?
Speaker 2: Oh?
Speaker 1: No, I don't know if that's accurate. That's I bet
Speaker 1: that's accurate. They had no fucking vitamins. Nobody knew what
Speaker 1: like what the proper nutrients you should take where nobody
Speaker 1: knew what was really important in terms of like resistance
Speaker 1: training and sleep and red light therapy and all that chizz.
Speaker 2: And they were doing all the bad stuff like heavy smoking, drinking.
Speaker 1: Yep, not sleeping a lot, yep, not sleeping a lot here,
Speaker 1: and pesticides and all kinds of terrible shit. Sixty year old?
Speaker 1: What that guy's sixties? Crazy? No way, Come on, shut up.
Speaker 1: That guy's fucking twenty eight years old. There's no way
Speaker 1: that guy's sixty. Is that real?
Speaker 2: I doubt it. I doubt it. How about that guy
Speaker 2: that looks fifteen? He says, everyone thinks I'm eighteen, Like, yeah, sure,
Speaker 2: what's up. There's a guy on Instagram, which I occasionally visit,
Speaker 2: and he obviously looks old like he looks Oh it's crazy,
Speaker 2: and he says, people think I look eighteen? Are you crazy?
Speaker 1: Well, there's a lot of crazy people out there. There's
Speaker 1: a lot Well that's body dysmorphia, you know, it must
Speaker 1: be bodybuilders. They think they're tiny. A lot of people
Speaker 1: are crazy. Yeah, a lot of people have a distorted
Speaker 1: perception of what they look like.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the plastic surgery industry is massive. It's just growing
Speaker 2: and growing. You can see on the street La especially.
Speaker 2: But imagine a world where if I'm successful, you can
Speaker 2: take a pill, your doctor could get it, or eventually
Speaker 2: it's a cream on your face and you literally get younger.
Speaker 2: We do this in mice already, the mice get younger.
Speaker 2: Is it going to work in humans? I think it's
Speaker 2: just a matter of time.
Speaker 1: So in the mice experiments, what have you achieved? Well,
Speaker 1: a lot.
Speaker 2: You know, I can reveal here some of it for
Speaker 2: the first time. This pill that we give them to drink,
Speaker 2: actually because they can't chew. The mice within four weeks
Speaker 2: with this cocktail. It has three components, which a top
Speaker 2: secret my lab has sworn to secrecy. They after four weeks,
Speaker 2: we give it to them three days a week Monday, Wednesday, Friday,
Speaker 2: weekends off. Within those four weeks they get better physically, mentally.
Speaker 2: Excuse me, they?
Speaker 1: Uh?
Speaker 2: So we put them through tested just in a couple
Speaker 2: of days. Oh no, three days a week for a month.
Speaker 1: Oh okay, he.
Speaker 2: Found this guy.
Speaker 1: This is the guy he went viral last year. He's
Speaker 1: being fifty nine years old? What how fucking it seems
Speaker 1: so real?
Speaker 2: He looks thirty exactly.
Speaker 1: He might have just amazing genetics. Well look at Joel Romero.
Speaker 1: There there are people that are freaking Singapore.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Wow, twondo kwondo ten and he's sixty years old.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's been going without a face lifts.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know it's he certainly doesn't look like
Speaker 1: he's had a facelift. Yeah right, it's fucking incredible.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but he's probably never been in the sun.
Speaker 1: It could be a full AI account. It's trolling everyone.
Speaker 1: I don't know that's possible too. Like, look at that
Speaker 1: picture right there, Like that looks a little AI ish.
Speaker 1: Go back to that one again. Keep your pants on, Jamie,
Speaker 1: that relax. That looks very AI, doesn't it.
Speaker 2: I'm just it could be it is all.
Speaker 1: His fifty ninth birthday. His whole thing is that he's young.
Speaker 2: For eight looks half his age. Wow, man, this will
Speaker 2: be normal.
Speaker 1: I guess it's just twenty twenty fourst it's not. This
Speaker 1: has been going on for a while. Okay, so this
Speaker 1: is pre AI. If it's fake, then he would have
Speaker 1: been called out now, right, so he might just be
Speaker 1: a genetic free which is interesting, right, Like do you
Speaker 1: guys study the different like you know, unfortunately certain people
Speaker 1: that have like like pale people for instance, with thin skin,
Speaker 1: they age hardcore, they go.
Speaker 2: And there are those kids that get old in the teens, right,
Speaker 2: the study that as well.
Speaker 1: Yeah, weird, but yeah.
Speaker 2: We do study the genetics of aging.
Speaker 1: That's the real application for it where people are to
Speaker 1: be excited about it. People that have that what is
Speaker 1: it called per jerry jerry exactly? Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And so we have mice that have this same
Speaker 2: gene mutation and they get old really quickly, and we're
Speaker 2: giving them the drink right now, and.
Speaker 1: So in the drink you give it to them how
Speaker 1: often and for.
Speaker 2: A month it's once a day, every other day, three
Speaker 2: days a week for a month. And yeah, in normal
Speaker 2: old mice, we see them fitter, stronger, better memory. They
Speaker 2: run around the cave in just a month. It's amazing.
Speaker 2: We only did a month because it was Christmas holiday season.
Speaker 2: We didn't we didn't want to go for longer. But
Speaker 2: it worked in four weeks. I'm shocked. Even these genes
Speaker 2: require six to eight weeks to work for revision, recovery
Speaker 2: of vision.
Speaker 1: And so this is working on a different pathway.
Speaker 2: Well, here's the cool thing. We think it's working through
Speaker 2: the same mechanism, the reboot, the reinstallation of software the drink.
Speaker 2: Because there are genes called TETs. There are three of
Speaker 2: them in the body, and they do something spoiler t
Speaker 2: ET capital t T there's one, two, three, And these
Speaker 2: are genes that make enzymes that remove these methyls off
Speaker 2: the DNA, so they control the clock. And if we
Speaker 2: get rid of those genes, our system doesn't work. We
Speaker 2: cannot restore vision, and our pill doesn't work without removing
Speaker 2: and altering those chemicals. So in other words, it's not
Speaker 2: just because the chemicals make the cell healthier, it's actually
Speaker 2: resetting this clock on the DNA. WHOA, and that was
Speaker 2: the big deal, I said, why when my student told me.
Speaker 2: And that's why I think it got the cover of
Speaker 2: Nature magazine, which is we're actually looking at the clock
Speaker 2: of life, and we've realized that this clock that goes around,
Speaker 2: this biological clock, isn't just a clock. When you move
Speaker 2: the hands of the clock, time goes backwards for the body,
Speaker 2: meaning the clock is aging, and aging is the clock.
Speaker 1: Wow, what is it? You don't really know in terms
Speaker 1: of humans, But is there any indication that improves cognitive
Speaker 1: function in mice?
Speaker 2: Yes, I can say without a doubt that other labs
Speaker 2: an ours have shown that when you reverse the age
Speaker 2: of the brain in a mouse, it gets better at learning.
Speaker 2: And we even have some hints and we're going to
Speaker 2: publish this that lost memories come back.
Speaker 1: WHOA.
Speaker 2: So Alzheimer's patients I believe still have memories, they just
Speaker 2: cannot access them, and that one day we can reverse
Speaker 2: Alzheimer's disease by making the brain young, and that using
Speaker 2: that approach, making the whole body young, we can cure
Speaker 2: diseases that are currently incurable.
Speaker 1: Holy shit.
Speaker 2: Well young people don't get Alzheimer's why because the body
Speaker 2: can tackle the problem. The young body can heal itself.
Speaker 2: So my approach is make the body young, it'll heal
Speaker 2: itself in every way.
Speaker 1: Well do you have children three? Yeah. One of things
Speaker 1: that's just phenomenal is watching them heal. Yeah, I'm like,
Speaker 1: it is so uh, it's so wild. But also you
Speaker 1: envy them so much because they get cut and it's
Speaker 1: like two days later, like, where's your cut? It's fucking gone,
Speaker 1: Like that's crazy. My daughter had a cutter. She fell
Speaker 1: and knocked her head and she had this like dark
Speaker 1: spot on her head like where she got injured. It
Speaker 1: was like four or hailve days it was gone, and
Speaker 1: I was like that fucking thing would be with me
Speaker 1: for four months.
Speaker 2: Yeah. And the good thing is if we rub our
Speaker 2: cocktail on the skin of the mice, they heal like
Speaker 2: the young again.
Speaker 1: Oh so that would be like a great application for
Speaker 1: ladies who want the beauty treatment on the face, right,
Speaker 1: because that.
Speaker 2: Was way waheaded whoa. Yeah, yeah, And we're working on hair.
Speaker 2: We can grow human hair on mice now. Really that
Speaker 2: took a few years and now we can check if
Speaker 2: we can regrow hair and make it dark again.
Speaker 1: You can grow human hair on mice.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm not alad to actually did post it on
Speaker 2: Instagram and the university said, get that down. It exists.
Speaker 2: We grow it from stem cells, from human stem cells.
Speaker 2: We make little bowls of hair. It takes a few months.
Speaker 2: We open up the ball to make a flat piece
Speaker 2: of skin, human skin, and we put that in the
Speaker 2: back of a mouse that can accept human skin, and
Speaker 2: then you get black tufts of hair from humans can.
Speaker 1: You get any kind of hair, Like, could I get
Speaker 1: an afro? I just want to get one to piss
Speaker 1: people off. Oh, we'd love an afro, like a Colin
Speaker 1: Kaepernick type, just a big, crazy one.
Speaker 2: Yeah. We can grow hair. We can do that. We
Speaker 2: were on at a few leves that can grow this hair.
Speaker 2: So I thought about doing that for a company, but
Speaker 2: I think hair transplants would just be easier.
Speaker 1: Oh right, so you would grow hair in a lab
Speaker 1: and then transplant those hairs.
Speaker 2: We can do that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, oh well that's the thing, because I got a
Speaker 1: hair transplant. But the way I describe it is like
Speaker 1: your take. It's like taking people that are really healthy
Speaker 1: and moving them into a town where everyone's dying. Because
Speaker 1: like you take taking hair from back here where it's
Speaker 1: gonna stay, and you put it up here where it's
Speaker 1: all falling out.
Speaker 2: It didn't thrive. What's up It doesn't thrive if you
Speaker 2: move it.
Speaker 1: Oh, it thrives, but everybody else dies. You know, you
Speaker 1: can only take so much from the back of your
Speaker 1: head and move it to the top of your head.
Speaker 1: That's why a lot of guys with hair transplants look goofy,
Speaker 1: because you have like this strong hairline in the front
Speaker 1: and it goes back like that and then everything else
Speaker 1: looks like chaos.
Speaker 2: Oh that sucks. You know what I take from my hair?
Speaker 1: What do you take?
Speaker 2: Among other things?
Speaker 1: Uh?
Speaker 2: Viagra?
Speaker 1: Viagra?
Speaker 2: Yeah, actually I shouldn't say the brand name.
Speaker 1: That's actually I take it.
Speaker 2: That's what I tell everybody. That is true. It's low dose,
Speaker 2: seven milligrams a day to delafill, and it's good for
Speaker 2: a lot of things.
Speaker 1: I know it's good for endurance. Yeah, yeah, because I
Speaker 1: know athletes who take it for endurance. They probably take
Speaker 1: it to fuck too. Let's not kid ourselves.
Speaker 2: Well, it's a nice it's a nice benefit. When a
Speaker 2: sign a paper just came out about its role in
Speaker 2: preventing cancer, I tweeted what's not to love? People love
Speaker 2: that tweet. But the point is actually, last week they
Speaker 2: found that these drugs in mice and seemingly in people
Speaker 2: who take these drugs are actually resistant to can certain
Speaker 2: types of cancers like head and neck cancer. So interested
Speaker 2: turning out.
Speaker 1: To be really important. Blood flow.
Speaker 2: Well, two reasons that are not related to blood flow,
Speaker 2: but they're related to what's called nitric oxide signaling, which
Speaker 2: is what helps dilate blood vessels in all your body,
Speaker 2: including your penis. The other two mechanisms, one showed that
Speaker 2: to dalaphil is good for exposing the tumor to the
Speaker 2: immune system. There are certain cells are called MDSCs that
Speaker 2: protect the tumor from getting attacked, and the drug stops that.
Speaker 2: So now the tumors shrink in mice and seemingly in
Speaker 2: people in tumors. And then the second mechanism is really interesting.
Speaker 2: It seems to this was siedanaphil, So this is now viagra.
Speaker 2: Found that the cancer is a lot of cancers thrive
Speaker 2: on cholesterol, and this blocks the ability of cancer cells
Speaker 2: to use cholesterol.
Speaker 1: I thought they thrived on glucose.
Speaker 2: That too, exactly right. So you want to be in
Speaker 2: katosis if you've got the tumor in general, so fasting
Speaker 2: is good, but now it looks like these ed drugs
Speaker 2: might be good for it as well.
Speaker 1: Fascinating. It wasn't I think viagra was a It was
Speaker 1: an accident, right, wasn't Wasn't it a blood pressure medication.
Speaker 2: It's a good story. It was for angina, right was
Speaker 2: for your heart. But the story goes that women especially
Speaker 2: and the men didn't want to give up the drugs
Speaker 2: that they had left over. It was amazing. It was
Speaker 2: I think it was seventy five percent had a positive
Speaker 2: reaction for erections and without it twenty two. So it's
Speaker 2: it's very clear that it was working.
Speaker 1: Interesting and so so how does it help hair?
Speaker 2: Well, we don't know for sure, but there's a lot
Speaker 2: of evidence that part of the reason hair dies out
Speaker 2: and stops growing is lack a blood flow, and the
Speaker 2: monoxidol that people put on their hair helps with that.
Speaker 1: Right. Interesting, and then DHT inhibitors exactly.
Speaker 2: Also, i'd be do test ride people can take orally.
Speaker 1: The problem with that is my friend had severe depression
Speaker 1: when he took that. Yeah, it really fucked him up,
Speaker 1: and he didn't realize because he didn't understand that that
Speaker 1: was He was like, what is wrong with me? And
Speaker 1: he was getting suicidal and then he got off of
Speaker 1: it and it just went away, and he's like, oh
Speaker 1: my god, I can't believe that this episode is sponsored
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Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I'm taking it for a number of reasons,
Speaker 2: including my hair and my prostate. See if I can
Speaker 2: keep it from growing. But unfortunately I haven't had that
Speaker 2: side effect.
Speaker 1: But everything depends, right, It varies biologically depending on the person.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's important when either of us says that drug's
Speaker 2: good that drug's bad, right, people realize that you have
Speaker 2: to test it, see and with doctors supervision.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that was where I was going to get to,
Speaker 1: was like, because different medications have different reactions, or different
Speaker 1: people's reactions to medications, they vary quite wildly. So like,
Speaker 1: before you make this public, I mean, like, how do
Speaker 1: you determ whether or not this is going to be
Speaker 1: safe for a wide variety of people to reverse aging.
Speaker 2: Oh my drug, our drug that we're making, well, we
Speaker 2: will test it on a lot of people before it
Speaker 2: goes out into the wide world.
Speaker 1: And you've started testing it on people so far.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there are people right now who have this these
Speaker 2: genes in their eye.
Speaker 1: And how's it going. I'm not allowed to say, but
Speaker 1: can you wink twice? If it's great?
Speaker 2: Um, I would say that everything's on target.
Speaker 1: Okay, it's good to hear.
Speaker 2: Nothing bad to report, nothing bad to report. I think
Speaker 2: those might be the words I'm allowed to say.
Speaker 1: And is that the only clinical trials you've used with
Speaker 1: any of these applications for humans so far?
Speaker 2: That was the first glaucoma And also sudden blindness it's
Speaker 2: called nyon, which is now twice as more prevalent because
Speaker 2: of the JLP one drugs. Really it's not well known obviously,
Speaker 2: companies don't want to talk about it, but yes, blindness
Speaker 2: has doubled seemingly because of these meds.
Speaker 1: You have to Holy shit, sudden blindness has doubled because
Speaker 1: of GLP one's do.
Speaker 2: You deny on? Which is like a stroke in your
Speaker 2: eye and then your other eye can go, which is
Speaker 2: pretty scary and there's nothing you can do about it. Hopefully,
Speaker 2: How drug does work for those people?
Speaker 1: And I'll well, obviously correlation does not equal causation, but
Speaker 1: it seems to be.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a scientist at Harvard, you could look up
Speaker 2: his work, Joe Rizzeau. It looks like it's repeatable across
Speaker 2: the planet.
Speaker 1: Wow, that's terrible because there's so many people out there
Speaker 1: that are just telling everyone they should get on GLP ones. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I've've seen that, like by online people, like online podcasters
Speaker 1: saying everyone should get on GLP one's there's a groundbreaking technology.
Speaker 1: This is amazing, it's going to transform society. I'm like,
Speaker 1: we just started taking these the fuck are you saying?
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's not risk free? Same with eight D drugs.
Speaker 1: Here goes. Recent studies suggests that a potential rare link
Speaker 1: between GLP one receptor agonist medication such as zempeg, wagov
Speaker 1: blah blah blah, and a condition called non artytic anterior
Speaker 1: what's that word ischemic ischemic optic neuropathy. An eye stroke
Speaker 1: can cause sudden, painless loss of vision in one eye.
Speaker 1: Wey absolute risk remains very low. Anyone experienced sudden vision change,
Speaker 1: you should seek emergency metal medical evaluation immediately. Well, very
Speaker 1: low is like, it's still what does that mean?
Speaker 2: People?
Speaker 1: One in ten thousand?
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that's total of ten thousand, oh, total.
Speaker 1: Of ten thousand so far for how much you were
Speaker 1: taking this. I think it's pretty The drugs were sixty
Speaker 1: eight point six times more likely to develop this and
Speaker 1: eight times more likely to develop diabetic What is that
Speaker 1: we only got the blurb? Oh my god? Then wow. Yeah, man,
Speaker 1: these things are just they're just rolling out and the
Speaker 1: people that are like super enthusiastic, and also they have
Speaker 1: some sort of a financial interest in promoting these things,
Speaker 1: which oftentimes does seem to be the case with a
Speaker 1: lot of these people. They have either stock in these
Speaker 1: companies or some sort of a stake in them.
Speaker 2: Uh. Yeah, it's true, though, I will I will say
Speaker 2: to counter that that the JLP one drugs have probably
Speaker 2: saved millions of lives already, and they're pretty common. At
Speaker 2: least ten percent of people are trying them in twenty
Speaker 2: five percent one to two.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, they don't work for everybody. I have
Speaker 1: a good friend of mine that had a terrible reaction
Speaker 1: from it, and he was hospitalized. But I know other
Speaker 1: people where it's completely transformed their life and they've lost
Speaker 1: a ton of weight, and particularly people that just for
Speaker 1: whatever reason, the food addiction was so incredibly strong that
Speaker 1: whatever their constitution, the way they're the way they're designed,
Speaker 1: the way they're built, the way they've as a human being,
Speaker 1: they weren't capable of overcoming it. They take the GLP
Speaker 1: ones and then they sort of start getting moving and
Speaker 1: then they lose all the weight, they start feeling better,
Speaker 1: they start making a lot of other positive changes. You
Speaker 1: get that momentum, which I always talk about, is which
Speaker 1: is one of the most important things for transforming your life.
Speaker 1: Everyone wants to talk about discipline. I think discipline is
Speaker 1: the primary, that's the main engine, but one of the
Speaker 1: things that comes along with any kind of an exercise
Speaker 1: program or changing your life program where you start getting
Speaker 1: positive results is momentum. And momentum is absolutely huge, thank you,
Speaker 1: because then you start feeling.
Speaker 2: That's so important, this is good.
Speaker 1: So I think golp ones are fantastic for getting people going.
Speaker 2: Yes, everybody should hear this, it's really important. I'll give
Speaker 2: you my example. It's a classic case, I couldn't fast
Speaker 2: for more than about a day. I want to do more.
Speaker 2: I know that three days fasting is good, A week
Speaker 2: can be even better, but I couldn't do it. I
Speaker 2: don't have a lot of willpower when it comes to
Speaker 2: this kind of stuff. I tried a jilpy one receptor agonist.
Speaker 2: I gave it and it was easy. I didn't even
Speaker 2: feel like I needed to snack at night, which is
Speaker 2: one of the things that I and many people suffer from.
Speaker 2: But the fact that I could do it, I went
Speaker 2: off the drug. I didn't need it. But now I
Speaker 2: can fast for I went for two weeks in a
Speaker 2: couple of months ago. Well it's easy now now that
Speaker 2: I know that I can do it. Mentally, it's not
Speaker 2: hard at all. The momentum exactly, I know what's possible.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that's fascinating. You are you still on a
Speaker 1: plant based diet?
Speaker 2: Mostly?
Speaker 1: Yeah, what I had. I just had a conversation with
Speaker 1: a friend of mine about this. I don't know how
Speaker 1: much of the information that he was telling me it
Speaker 1: was totally accurate, But what he was saying was that
Speaker 1: he was told before he did fasting that one of
Speaker 1: the best because he's a runner, He said, one of
Speaker 1: the best ways to get into fasting is to get
Speaker 1: your body into Kittosi's first, he said, And what he
Speaker 1: thinks is that a carnivore based diet and what he
Speaker 1: was told was a good way. If you could do
Speaker 1: that for a few weeks, it mitigates your appetite. Like
Speaker 1: one of the things that happens with a lot of
Speaker 1: these diets that regulate insolent resistance is that when you
Speaker 1: get used to consuming just fats and protein, you don't
Speaker 1: have the kind of hunger pangs that you have with carbohydrates.
Speaker 1: Like when I if I go in a bad streak
Speaker 1: and I'm eating pizza and pasta, and I've done that
Speaker 1: in the past, I don't really do that much in
Speaker 1: a less I'm on vacation. In the past, though, what
Speaker 1: I would get hungry, I would get crazy hungry, like
Speaker 1: I've got to eat. Now I don't get that at
Speaker 1: all anymore because I'm mostly on a carnivore based diet.
Speaker 1: Mostly what I eat the like you look the bulk
Speaker 1: of my diet, it's meat and fermented vegetables. It's meat
Speaker 1: and like kimchi and sauer kraut and stuff along those lines.
Speaker 1: And when I eat like that, my hunger is very
Speaker 1: easy to control. And I've gone twenty four hours like
Speaker 1: it's nothing, not eating, It's like not a problem at all.
Speaker 1: But that's the most I've ever fasted. It's twenty four hours.
Speaker 2: Okay, well see if you can go for three, it's
Speaker 2: really worth it. You feel really great. Katosa's well that's
Speaker 2: what everybody says. Yeah, yeah, And you go into what's
Speaker 2: called deep cleansing. It's called chaperone mediated ortopogy or CMA,
Speaker 2: and a friend of mine in New York, Maria Corvo,
Speaker 2: studies this and it cleans out a lot of the
Speaker 2: old proteins in your body. So katosis doesn't just make
Speaker 2: you feel good, you're actually renewing your protein in your
Speaker 2: body and rebuilding it. And so I do that as
Speaker 2: a as an anti aging thing.
Speaker 1: Is what I find is the biggest benefit is mental acuity.
Speaker 1: It's a giant It has a giant impact when I
Speaker 1: stick to the diet in terms of my ability to
Speaker 1: form sentences, like recall information and just be present in podcasts.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so in my podcast, what you do is really
Speaker 2: quite difficult. You make it look easy. So when I'm
Speaker 2: when I'm doing my podcast and often it's solo, so
Speaker 2: it's challenging. I forget things. I have to remember hundreds
Speaker 2: of papers for these things. They quite hard. Either I'm
Speaker 2: gonna fast, and if I don't remember to fast, I
Speaker 2: didn't experiment. I took some keytones. You can drink these things, right,
Speaker 2: So yeah, there's the one, the little drink I think.
Speaker 1: With fantastic stuff.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I use that.
Speaker 1: I love that stuff. I do that. I take that
Speaker 1: before I do UFC broadcasts a lot of the time. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I actually took some before because one that's great before
Speaker 1: podcasts as well. Well. The one and one of more
Speaker 1: difficult things that I do is the UFC commentary because
Speaker 1: it's six hours, six hours of talking on air live yeah,
Speaker 1: and about fights, and I'm also recalling fights and I'm
Speaker 1: also I'm seeing positions, so I have to remember in
Speaker 1: my mind how this is finished, because like in jiu jitsu,
Speaker 1: there might be I don't know how many positions there are,
Speaker 1: there thousands, And there's moves where I'm like, what is
Speaker 1: he doing? What is he doing?
Speaker 2: Oh?
Speaker 1: Oh, that's that, that's the prov net TI. I'm looking
Speaker 1: at his arms like your brain is I am exhausted
Speaker 1: at the end of six hours and fucking starving, Like
Speaker 1: after the UFC is over. I can eat so much food.
Speaker 1: It's I'm so hungry.
Speaker 2: But you take a little drink.
Speaker 1: I take a little Keytone, little keytone IQ. I take Nootropics.
Speaker 1: I drink this stuff. My friend Derek makes this his
Speaker 1: Gorilla mind. It says a Nootropico tropic cocktail with caffeine
Speaker 1: stuf's really good for a podcast. I also take Alpha Brain.
Speaker 1: Alpha Brain Black labels phenomenal for that. There's a bunch
Speaker 1: of different ones that I take. The gum Neurogum. Neurogum
Speaker 1: is excellent for that too. But I just do fucking
Speaker 1: everything I can to maximize.
Speaker 2: That's how you do it, all right. Yes, secret is
Speaker 2: now out, all right, but what you do is amazing.
Speaker 2: And I thought you were on mandafanol or something. No.
Speaker 1: I've taken that before in the past. But the problem
Speaker 1: with that stuff is I think I like it too
Speaker 1: much and I want to take it all the time.
Speaker 1: You know, when I used to take that, if I
Speaker 1: had a gig in San Diego and I drive home
Speaker 1: after the gig, and it was like, you know, one
Speaker 1: o'clock in the morning when I'm done, and then I'm like, ah,
Speaker 1: I'll just go home. It's only two and a half hours.
Speaker 1: And I start making the drive and you just get
Speaker 1: so tired. But if I take new vigil or provigil
Speaker 1: before I do that, I would be able to drive
Speaker 1: no problem. Put a book on tap.
Speaker 2: Can you sleep after that? Dog?
Speaker 1: Oh? Yeah, yeah. It doesn't seem to affect your ability
Speaker 1: to sleep, which is really interesting. It's not like caffeine.
Speaker 1: Do you do it? Do you take it at all?
Speaker 2: Arm adafinil for tulks when I'm traveling.
Speaker 1: Does it help you?
Speaker 2: Definitely?
Speaker 1: Like in what way?
Speaker 2: It gets rid of my jet light and I can focus.
Speaker 2: My brain often is either scattered or filled with facts
Speaker 2: that I pauses me like now to not be able
Speaker 2: to talk properly. But if I'm on it, in which
Speaker 2: I'm not, I'm on point every time. For me.
Speaker 1: The best thing for jet lag is exercise. There's something
Speaker 1: about rigorous exercise. It doesn't even have to be long.
Speaker 1: It just has to be where my heart break gets
Speaker 1: really elevated, like above one hundred and fifty bats per
Speaker 1: minute for fifteen twenty minutes, Like I have to really
Speaker 1: go hard where I'm sweaty and breathing heavy, you know,
Speaker 1: especially by jacket up to like one eighty one ninety
Speaker 1: like I'm doing like Tabata sprints on an air dine bike.
Speaker 1: That kind of stuff completely resets me. Yeah, hard kettlebell
Speaker 1: workouts like I'll do like a hard series where a
Speaker 1: minimum amount of rest in between. So I'm really pushing it.
Speaker 1: Once I relax, I'm back. It's like it whatever it
Speaker 1: is where your body just needs to like shake it
Speaker 1: up and like get all of it out of your system.
Speaker 1: It's like now I feel completely normal.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well you might remember last time we talked about hormesis. Yeah,
Speaker 2: what doesn't kill you makes you stronger, And that's what
Speaker 2: you're doing. You're putting your body into survival mode. So
Speaker 2: one of the reasons I mostly plants, why I take
Speaker 2: and a man and these other molecules, is to mimic
Speaker 2: that I don't work out like you do. I should
Speaker 2: that I don't and don't you Uh. I think partly
Speaker 2: because I tell myself I'm too busy, which is bullshit.
Speaker 1: Uh.
Speaker 2: I need I need a partner who will motivate me.
Speaker 2: I think that would help. Maybe just get a trainer
Speaker 2: that's that's a solution. You get some chadder, get a trainer.
Speaker 2: I got some chad. Is that my money?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: No, I can definitely forward one. Uh yeah, you know
Speaker 2: it's on me. I actually I will own that that
Speaker 2: I get it.
Speaker 1: I just was explaining this to my friend last night.
Speaker 1: It was like, I gotta start working. I'm like, just
Speaker 1: get a trainer, get a trainer, someone who's good, and
Speaker 1: that way they'll develop a program for you. All you
Speaker 1: have to do is just show up and do what
Speaker 1: they tell you to do. Just do it and it's mindless.
Speaker 1: You could just like just go through what they tell
Speaker 1: you to do and you'll just trust the process. You'll
Speaker 1: improve radically.
Speaker 2: All right, all right here, here's what we're gonna do. Okay,
Speaker 2: I'm gonna take years.
Speaker 1: What we're gonna do. You're gonna get me a jug
Speaker 1: of that fucking.
Speaker 2: Juice will swamp, all right, and you'll be my I'll
Speaker 2: be a well I will.
Speaker 1: I've done that before with my comedian friends. Really sure. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'll do it the right way where I take them
Speaker 1: through it very easy. I don't have them worked out
Speaker 1: hard at all. Especially in the beginning. Everything is like
Speaker 1: nice and easy. It's like a little bit of strained,
Speaker 1: You're not gonna be exhausted afterwards, and we build you up.
Speaker 1: I'm a bill, I'm I'm a firm believer and not
Speaker 1: over taxing the system on people that are sedentary. I
Speaker 1: really think it's a slow, gradual process. I think you
Speaker 1: have to get better the same way you got sick
Speaker 1: over time. You can make radical changes in a short
Speaker 1: period of time, don't get me wrong. And even just
Speaker 1: a little bit of you know, moderately rigorous exercise a
Speaker 1: few days a week, well, a few days a week
Speaker 1: will give you great improvements. But I'm not one of
Speaker 1: those guys. Is like, you know, we're gonna do two
Speaker 1: hours today and you're gonna go to failure and you're
Speaker 1: gonna be throwing up in a garbage pan. You're not
Speaker 1: gonna do that again the next day. I want you
Speaker 1: to do it again the next I want you to
Speaker 1: have a nice workout where you know you're doing like
Speaker 1: ten push ups and ten sit ups and ten body
Speaker 1: weight squads, and then we're gonna do some of these
Speaker 1: kettlebell cleans and kettlebell and nothing hard. Like everything's gonna
Speaker 1: be like, oh okay, you put it down. You're fine,
Speaker 1: and I want you to leave rejuvenated, like you feel like,
Speaker 1: oh that was like exhilarating, nothing crazy, and then we'll
Speaker 1: slowly start to add a little bit over time. That's
Speaker 1: what I think the right thing to do with people
Speaker 1: who don't work out all the time. You can't just
Speaker 1: jump in and you know, it's.
Speaker 2: Like worsting and skipping meals. You just can't do a
Speaker 2: day or three without practicing.
Speaker 1: Well. It's also you're gonna get injured. And this is
Speaker 1: one of the main things that happens to people that
Speaker 1: dive right into the deep end of the pool when
Speaker 1: they start working out, is they get hurt, they get
Speaker 1: muscle polls, they get back aches, they got all these
Speaker 1: different things that happen because I think you just pushed
Speaker 1: your body too quickly. You know, it's like you're in
Speaker 1: boot camp. Like, well, you don't have to be in
Speaker 1: boot camp. This is not the way to do it.
Speaker 1: The way to do it is like slowly build up
Speaker 1: and trust the process. Slowly start by If you're overweight,
Speaker 1: like my friend Jelly Roll, he lost two hundred and
Speaker 1: fifty pounds, what did he do? Started walking? Just start
Speaker 1: walking walking around the neighborhood, walk around the block, walk upstairs,
Speaker 1: just slowly, and then change the diet and then add
Speaker 1: some stuff and next thing you know, you're doing this
Speaker 1: and write it all down to that's the other thing.
Speaker 1: Write down what you're gonna do, and write down how
Speaker 1: you feel, and then keep doing that. And if you
Speaker 1: could do that all the time, you'll start developing this
Speaker 1: like momentum that we were talking about. Were like, Okay,
Speaker 1: I'm on the course. I'm on a process, but it
Speaker 1: doesn't have to be like you you're exhausted and then
Speaker 1: you go to the lab and you're like, I can't
Speaker 1: even fucking concentrate. You know, I was doing Tobata sprints
Speaker 1: on the airdime machine, Like this is crazy.
Speaker 2: Well, that's it's really good advice, and I'm going to
Speaker 2: take you up on it. So let's say I'm lucky
Speaker 2: enough to come on the show again. Yeah, I'll wear
Speaker 2: a tight T shirt. Let's go, right, So twenty million
Speaker 2: people have to get on.
Speaker 1: The fucking goofy plant based diet.
Speaker 2: Well, speak about that, because that's one of the things
Speaker 2: we disagree on. I'm on a plant based diet because
Speaker 2: I've seen a lot of work on animals, at least
Speaker 2: that plants promote longevity. I eat a lot of protein.
Speaker 1: It's interesting because you're not an animal. You know that right.
Speaker 1: I'm not a mouse. I'm definitely an.
Speaker 2: Animal, but are human.
Speaker 1: Meat is the most nutrient dense food it is, it's available.
Speaker 2: I love meat.
Speaker 1: I love me.
Speaker 2: I believe that there are there are two states that
Speaker 2: we can be in. I should try meat, and then
Speaker 2: you can see because I've been measuring myself with rings
Speaker 2: and blood tests for last twenty years.
Speaker 1: You should try elk. I'll get you an elk steak.
Speaker 2: I'd love to try it.
Speaker 1: Sounds fair.
Speaker 2: I'm not against me. I will eat it and you'll
Speaker 2: be like WHOA, yeah, don't get me addicted to me.
Speaker 1: I feel it right away, like oh, you're sitting out
Speaker 1: to start firing. Your body starts like, yes, this is
Speaker 1: what we wanted to do.
Speaker 2: Well, here's some science, which is what I do. There
Speaker 2: are two states, this is my theory. There's the abundance mode,
Speaker 2: which is very good for health. You'll build muscle, you'll
Speaker 2: heal better. That's meat killed a mammoth. There's adversity mode,
Speaker 2: which is we're out of meat, we're going to we
Speaker 2: gotta eat roots and berries. That's adversity. We've got to run, running, exercise,
Speaker 2: eating less, that's adversity. Both are good for you. This
Speaker 2: one is pro survival. This one is pro growth. This
Speaker 2: one is longevity. This one is you're going to be
Speaker 2: stronger fit.
Speaker 1: How do you determine that though, in terms of like
Speaker 1: what is longevity versus what is just like health and
Speaker 1: vitality currently.
Speaker 2: Well, it's based on the last thirty years of research
Speaker 2: in a variety of animals.
Speaker 1: And she just doesn't have to do with the blue zones,
Speaker 1: does it? Nor?
Speaker 2: I read that recently.
Speaker 1: Yeah, isn't that nuts.
Speaker 2: Fraud, Well, records are hard.
Speaker 1: Well, it's not just hard. A lot of it is
Speaker 1: actual fraud where people are getting checks for their grandpa
Speaker 1: and grandpa was dead, so they weren't writing it into
Speaker 1: the government. They didn't expose like this was the problem
Speaker 1: with Okinawa in particular, is that they would have to
Speaker 1: in order for these people to get taken off the list,
Speaker 1: they would have to inform the government if this person died,
Speaker 1: and they just didn't do it. And so they had
Speaker 1: this list of people that they were counting in their
Speaker 1: census that were like soul really, like this is crazy,
Speaker 1: what are you people? Doing even the oldest one hundred
Speaker 1: years old.
Speaker 2: The oldest person in the world apparently one hundred and
Speaker 2: twenty two. There's a theory, not proven, that the oldest
Speaker 2: person in the world was actually the daughter who was
Speaker 2: faking it to get taxes or avoid taxes. I think
Speaker 2: it was in France. I hope that that's not true.
Speaker 1: I bet it's true. People are full of shit.
Speaker 2: Well either way, the maximum human life spent's around one
Speaker 2: hundred and seventeen eighteen, which is still a lot more
Speaker 2: than we live.
Speaker 1: And what's really crazy is none of those people are
Speaker 1: doing everything right exactly. They're all smoking cigarettes and drinking
Speaker 1: wine and having a good time. And that's a factor
Speaker 1: that we really need to take into consideration. Loneliness and
Speaker 1: isolation and sadness are one of the greatest contributors to
Speaker 1: poor health outcomes. Number one, is it really Yeah?
Speaker 2: Robert Voldinger at Harvard had a study for I think
Speaker 2: it was forty years World War two vets. They looked
Speaker 2: at everything blood pressure, cholesterol. The number one thing that
Speaker 2: predicted longevity in those men was having a reliable partner.
Speaker 1: Hmmm, yeah, so not just a reliable partner, someone that
Speaker 1: you love that's true. Someone that you want to be
Speaker 1: around all the time, you enjoy them, you still enjoy
Speaker 1: their company, which is possible. Most people don't believe that's possible.
Speaker 2: Well, your role model is that.
Speaker 1: I love my wife. I have fun with her, like
Speaker 1: we I've been with her for a while, I've been
Speaker 1: married for seventeen years. I enjoy her. I enjoy hanging
Speaker 1: out with her. She's cool. Yeah, like she's a fun
Speaker 1: And I have friends that aren't in situations like that,
Speaker 1: and it's it's so bad when you're like, I have
Speaker 1: a friend who just we're actually talking last night. He
Speaker 1: just got out of a crazy relationship where he's dating
Speaker 1: this girl for seven years. Was chaos and this and that.
Speaker 1: And I said to him and he was like, he's forty,
Speaker 1: and he goes, I don't think I'm ever gonna have
Speaker 1: a relationship again. He goes, it was so bad. He goes,
Speaker 1: being single feels so good. And I said, there's an
Speaker 1: old saying it's so much better to be alone than
Speaker 1: to wish you were alone. And he's like, yeah, that's
Speaker 1: it because he was like with this crazy lady and
Speaker 1: he was like, I just wish I was And he
Speaker 1: finally got free and now he's like, I think I'm ruined,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, it doesn't have to be like that.
Speaker 1: You can find someone that you actually love and you
Speaker 1: really enjoy their time, you enjoy being with them. It's possible.
Speaker 2: There's good people out there.
Speaker 1: But you got to also be someone that that kind
Speaker 1: of person wants to be with. That's the other thing
Speaker 1: for sure.
Speaker 2: And stress of relationship. We've seen and studies that clock
Speaker 2: with those chemicals on the DNA, it accelerates when you're
Speaker 2: on distress. We'll go going through a breakup.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, oh see it.
Speaker 2: Oh.
Speaker 1: I've seen people going through divorces and it's just like
Speaker 1: it takes decades off of their life. They just look
Speaker 1: wrecked and it takes a year or two for them
Speaker 1: to like achieve equilibrium. Again.
Speaker 2: It's hard, it is, it is. I went through that
Speaker 2: actually just during COVID when our family got shoved in
Speaker 2: a house together, and yeah, it was brutal.
Speaker 1: It was unexpected to Wow, that's the stress test, right.
Speaker 2: It was super stress. It was super stress. It's funny
Speaker 2: that without the pandemic we might have been able to
Speaker 2: make it, but forcing us all to be in one
Speaker 2: little house with no internet working. Well, it was tough,
Speaker 2: but any case, I'm great now, I'm very happy. So,
Speaker 2: but I do know how bad it can get, and
Speaker 2: it's brutal.
Speaker 1: Yeah, bad relationships can fucking wreck people. I mean it
Speaker 1: can wreck your health. But also it's not just relationships
Speaker 1: in terms of your significant other, husband, wife, partner, whatever
Speaker 1: you want to call it, but also bad relationships at work,
Speaker 1: Like if you have a tyrant for a boss, and
Speaker 1: you know, and every day you're getting you're you're working
Speaker 1: over time and you're getting yelled at, and you're you're
Speaker 1: on the phone, and you're you're at home trying to
Speaker 1: keep up with work, and you never get like that
Speaker 1: that kind of relationship. Well, you have like this, like
Speaker 1: antagonistic terrible relationship with people that you work with. That's
Speaker 1: bad too. Oh for sure, your body doesn't differentiate between
Speaker 1: romantic relationships and those kind of relationships are almost equally bad.
Speaker 2: The cortosol will be high. This will accelerate here. I
Speaker 2: used to keep fish. I was one of those people
Speaker 2: at school and the fish that got picked on by
Speaker 2: the dominant fish was small, like color lived short. It's
Speaker 2: it's biology. If you're picked on and you're stressed, you're
Speaker 2: gonna age faster. Fortunately, I think you're probably the same.
Speaker 2: At my age, I've managed to weed out most of
Speaker 2: the jerks, and I don't work with them at all.
Speaker 2: I've got a great partner who we have a hobby
Speaker 2: of longevity together, so that I'm not lucky in that regard.
Speaker 1: Now we found a new one.
Speaker 2: Yeah, longevity specialist. Imagine that.
Speaker 1: Congratulations. Well that's nice too, right. I find someone who
Speaker 1: just like thinks so you think, and has similar likes
Speaker 1: like you say. Yeah, that definitely can help.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I know a lot of my friends that are really
Speaker 1: good relationships. Their significant other has the same hobby as them,
Speaker 1: you know, like whatever it is they both like to
Speaker 1: climb mountains or whatever the fuck it is. Find a thing.
Speaker 1: But that helps too. Well, so you actually enjoy spending
Speaker 1: time together doing something that you're both really excited about.
Speaker 2: That helps to So relationships is one and the other
Speaker 2: four major ones from that study were don't smoke, don't drink,
Speaker 2: get enough rest, and get exercise. And that was enough
Speaker 2: to extend by fifteen years.
Speaker 1: But what about those old people that live forever and
Speaker 1: do smoke and drink, because that's kind of weird.
Speaker 2: Well, they're a point zero one percent. They're not examples
Speaker 2: of what is that?
Speaker 1: Really? What it is?
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just.
Speaker 1: So the majority of people who get old and live
Speaker 1: to like centenarians, Like, what are the common things that
Speaker 1: they have?
Speaker 2: The big one is that they don't stress a lot.
Speaker 2: They usually have a good sense of humor. Mm. Interesting, right,
Speaker 2: they haven't been overweight, and they say that they typically
Speaker 2: couldn't remember when they lost got sick.
Speaker 1: I wonder how much time Twitter takes off your life.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we should study that. It's already taken a lot off. Mind,
Speaker 2: it does, and if you read the comments even.
Speaker 1: Yep, exactly, I'm so much happier since I swore off
Speaker 1: of all that stuff. So it's just not good for you.
Speaker 1: It's really really bad for you. It's also you're constantly
Speaker 1: dealing with the problems of the whole world, which I
Speaker 1: think is a lot for a human being that lives
Speaker 1: in a community, in a neighborhood. It's that shit that's
Speaker 1: happening over there really shouldn't be a primary focus of
Speaker 1: your life. Like where you're in the moment actually doing
Speaker 1: your life. It's not the same You're not in the
Speaker 1: same area as this problem but yet this problem is overwhelming.
Speaker 1: You're all day long life.
Speaker 2: And you're in fital flight constant today all day.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you're worried about the climate. Oh my god,
Speaker 1: Like there's so much. There's so much that freaks people
Speaker 1: out that really shouldn't be affecting you at.
Speaker 2: All, exactly, And actually the world doesn't change if you
Speaker 2: don't read it.
Speaker 1: So it's that's that's key. That's the key. But then
Speaker 1: you're like, well, you need you're passing off the responsibility
Speaker 1: to other people. You should get involved, Like, eh, you
Speaker 1: should get involved. I'm gonna be over here.
Speaker 2: That's right. Well, if you focus on doing something good
Speaker 2: and you're good at it, yes, like yourself, I think
Speaker 2: that you don't need to be doing more than that.
Speaker 1: You can't focus on everything, and anybody who tells you
Speaker 1: can is a fool. Or anybody who tells you what
Speaker 1: you should or shouldn't be focusing on is a fool.
Speaker 2: Yeah. A few years ago, someone at a talk that
Speaker 2: I gave said you should be working on climate change. Fuck,
Speaker 2: I said, after I cure aging, I'll get to climate change.
Speaker 1: Yeah, once you go to China and tell them stop
Speaker 1: making coal factories. Shut the fuck up, Just shut up,
Speaker 1: you No, you're not going to fix it. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: somebody is. Somebody's working on it, and that's their going.
Speaker 1: God bless them, good luck. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Well, what I try to spend my day is efficiently
Speaker 2: helping the world so that people ask me why do
Speaker 2: I study aging in the first place, And it really
Speaker 2: is that I'm trying to please my grandmother. Like some
Speaker 2: of else, she was the one that told me that
Speaker 2: I need to make the world a better place. And
Speaker 2: she's gone. That's what she said when I was four,
Speaker 2: been that ever since. She told me two things. Humans
Speaker 2: are evil. She lived through World War two in Hungary
Speaker 2: and oh wow, the Russians came in and raped everybody,
Speaker 2: she said, and then so she escaped to Australia. And
Speaker 2: then she said that the other issue is that we
Speaker 2: don't do enough as humans to better the world, and
Speaker 2: so I had that stuck in my mind. She also,
Speaker 2: by the way, said oh, we all die, and I
Speaker 2: thought that that's not really fair, is it? And that
Speaker 2: set me on this path make the.
Speaker 1: World a better place and we all die, and you're like, ah.
Speaker 2: And what I've noticed with my kids is that even
Speaker 2: if you tell them that, they forget about it because
Speaker 2: it's brutal to think about death every day. Yeah, but
Speaker 2: for some reason, it's just stuck in my head and
Speaker 2: every day I'm like, another one hundred and fifty thousand
Speaker 2: people are going to die today due to aging related diseases.
Speaker 2: So my lab is mission oriented. If we are day
Speaker 2: late with something, it's a lot of people that are
Speaker 2: suffering potentially avoidable diseases.
Speaker 1: That's why it's sort of understandable that people like show
Speaker 1: up outside of your lab and like like, I need
Speaker 1: to talk to you. Ah, I need this.
Speaker 2: Yeah, blind people want to get in the trials. It's big,
Speaker 2: and I think if the trial works, is going to
Speaker 2: be a very strange world, especially for my lab and
Speaker 2: for me. But we'll see, and even if it doesn't
Speaker 2: work this time, the science is strong enough that will
Speaker 2: figure it out. We will do this. It's just a
Speaker 2: question of when.
Speaker 1: And so do you think that AI is going to
Speaker 1: have a significant impact on the kind of improvements that
Speaker 1: you're able to.
Speaker 2: It already is we're going super fast, and AI has
Speaker 2: revolutionized biology. It's revolutionary everything, of course, but particularly in biology,
Speaker 2: where we used to have to read fifteen papers a day.
Speaker 2: Now we can read a million if we want. It's
Speaker 2: totally different. Wow, yeah, it's super brain. A nineteen year
Speaker 2: old came to my lab this summer and the lab
Speaker 2: grows from twenty to forty people and we're trying to
Speaker 2: figure out how do these three genes reset the cell?
Speaker 2: How does the cell remember what it was thirty forty
Speaker 2: years ago? Where's that information stored in the cell? And
Speaker 2: I've got this theory that there's some new biology, there's
Speaker 2: a record in the DNA somewhere. And I gave him
Speaker 2: that task. I said, can you just go to the
Speaker 2: databases of the whole world look at all the data
Speaker 2: that's there, is exobites of data, and see if my
Speaker 2: prediction is true, or at least you can get evidence
Speaker 2: for it. Two weeks later he came back and the
Speaker 2: whole team, not the whole ting, but five other people
Speaker 2: were smiling. We have to show you something. David right,
Speaker 2: come in to my office. We sat down. He shows
Speaker 2: up on the board on this LCD screen. I think
Speaker 2: we found the smoking gun for what your theory suggests.
Speaker 2: And he used AI to process all that data and
Speaker 2: the AI came back and said, yeah, you're probably right,
Speaker 2: and it's a nineteen year old straight out of high
Speaker 2: school who did this, That did something that the whole
Speaker 2: field and all these professors and all these fancy serves
Speaker 2: could not figure out until now.
Speaker 1: That is phenomenal. That's so promising, it's so exciting. It is.
Speaker 2: I mean, the future really does belong to people who
Speaker 2: can wrangle AI even on their phone. I think people
Speaker 2: on their phones are going to be making medicines or
Speaker 2: at least designing them, or bombs. That's the problem. And bioweapons, right,
Speaker 2: I mean you recently had, was it Anna on the
Speaker 2: show to talk about bio weapons and this kind of
Speaker 2: stuff That is a big worry. I actually had to
Speaker 2: disclose to the US government when I first got here
Speaker 2: that I did have the capability of making a bioweapon.
Speaker 1: The Anna Jacobsen episode that we just did on bioweapons
Speaker 1: was absolutely terrifying. She's yeah, I mean, she scared the
Speaker 1: shit out of the world with her nuclear war book,
Speaker 1: and now she's scaring everybody with her bioweapons book.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's scary.
Speaker 2: It is. What I've got is a database of all
Speaker 2: known pathogens and new ones that could come. So I'm
Speaker 2: trying to do my bit there to help the world
Speaker 2: if it happens again pandemic or something unnatural.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well that would be I mean, when you think
Speaker 1: about diseases that people get that just like wreck their
Speaker 1: entire body. If you really do have an original copy
Speaker 1: somewhere in their genome of what they look like as
Speaker 1: a healthy person, and you could switch that back on
Speaker 1: with a factory reboot, I mean, we could potentially get
Speaker 1: rid of all diseases, which is just bananas.
Speaker 2: And injuries, fixed injuries, grown new limbs, potentially. There's a
Speaker 2: new paper that just came out a few days ago
Speaker 2: that showed that the tips of the fingers of baby
Speaker 2: mice can be coaxed once they've healed over as a
Speaker 2: stub to regrow part of the finger.
Speaker 1: Haven't people done that before? Yeah?
Speaker 2: They found just two factors were enough, so it's not
Speaker 2: that hard. The point is we've got the instructions to
Speaker 2: be young and to regrow body parts in our body,
Speaker 2: we just don't use them.
Speaker 1: That's nuts. So like a salamander can grow an extra
Speaker 1: leg or a leg that gets chopped off, Yeah.
Speaker 2: I believe we still have that capability, we just don't
Speaker 2: use it. It just didn't make sense to regrow a
Speaker 2: limbit was quicker and safe to just heal it over
Speaker 2: as a stub and move on. But salamanders, which get
Speaker 2: their limbs presumably eaten, pretty often maintain that ability. So
Speaker 2: give us you know, I wouldn't say that we could
Speaker 2: evolve this, but I think using a combination of our
Speaker 2: technology plus this new technology that we're seeing come out,
Speaker 2: where these two factors can grow new limbs. I don't
Speaker 2: see a reason why we can't become like a dead
Speaker 2: pool where injury doesn't hurt us, aging can't hurt us,
Speaker 2: and we can regrow body parts.
Speaker 1: How far do you think we are away from being
Speaker 1: able to regrow body parts?
Speaker 2: Oh? I mean, realistically, probably a couple of decades. But
Speaker 2: I've seen enough that's not that far. I've seen enough
Speaker 2: to know that it's doable.
Speaker 1: A couple of decades ago was two thousand and six.
Speaker 2: Well, things are going super fast. I mean ten years
Speaker 2: ago we didn't even know aging was reversible, and now
Speaker 2: it's in humans.
Speaker 1: That's nuts. Think of that, Well, two thousand and AI,
Speaker 1: there was no AI.
Speaker 2: Right in twenty nineteen, it was an idea that we
Speaker 2: had just got the result in mice, and I divulged
Speaker 2: that to the world, then it was published, and then
Speaker 2: we're in humans now. So if it works, then you
Speaker 2: know it's going to be a.
Speaker 1: Very different world, and you're you feel very confidently that
Speaker 1: some of this stuff is going to work.
Speaker 2: Well, it's going to work. I don't know if this
Speaker 2: trial is going to be successful, but there's going to
Speaker 2: be a lot of people doing these trials. I have
Speaker 2: some competition, now, do you know about that? No, So
Speaker 2: since I started my company Life Biosciences, which is doing
Speaker 2: the trials with ERA one hundred, others have John joined
Speaker 2: in and the party so Jeff Bezos and others have
Speaker 2: started Alto's Farmer. They are based in three cities around
Speaker 2: the world. They have a few billion dollars to catch up.
Speaker 2: Sam Oltman has retro bio, and let's see Brian Armstrong
Speaker 2: from Coinbase, the CEO, started one called New Limit and
Speaker 2: they've got a lot of money, old billions.
Speaker 1: Do you think it's good that there's all these people
Speaker 1: involved in this.
Speaker 2: Ill's good?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Competition, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2: I'm not doing this for my own personal benefit. I
Speaker 2: want humanity to be changed the way it could be.
Speaker 1: And the more people like Jeff Bezos, the more people
Speaker 1: with a large bank account that are invested in this,
Speaker 1: the better fantastic. And of course a guy like Bezos,
Speaker 1: he's balling out of control. Why wouldn't you want to
Speaker 1: live forever?
Speaker 2: Well, what's left if you've got everything else?
Speaker 1: You know? Well, also it's like it's like if you've
Speaker 1: got the amount of money that he has and you
Speaker 1: can tackle all these different issues, you know, like his
Speaker 1: space program that he's working on, all these different things
Speaker 1: Like of course, why would you want to do cool things?
Speaker 1: Like what's cooler than being able to grow limbs?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know what's cooler than being able to cure
Speaker 1: all diseases and reverse aging?
Speaker 2: Well there's I don't think there's much cooler that. That's
Speaker 2: why I'm doing it, because that I think can be
Speaker 2: the biggest gift to humanity is what you just said.
Speaker 2: So I don't know if I'll achieve it, probably not
Speaker 2: in my lifetime, but at least I've moved the needl
Speaker 2: and pushed the ball globally in that direction.
Speaker 1: I wonder if we're going to get to a point
Speaker 1: in time where we can engineer consciousness in terms of
Speaker 1: like find out like you find out someone's a sociopath,
Speaker 1: You find out someone's a kleptomaniac or someone's an arsonist,
Speaker 1: like whatever it is. Like if you could figure out
Speaker 1: like what these little flaws are in the way the
Speaker 1: mind works, if you can completely map it out and go, oh,
Speaker 1: this is the error. This is where you're not making
Speaker 1: these two connections.
Speaker 2: Of course, they'll just biology and engineering. There's nothing that
Speaker 2: stops us. And this is the century that we are
Speaker 2: able to control our own biology, starting with cancer, heart disease,
Speaker 2: and aging.
Speaker 1: A true utopian world of peaceful people. We peace harmony, but.
Speaker 2: Healthy, not peaceful. I don't think world peace. I think
Speaker 2: curing aging is easier than world peace.
Speaker 1: Well if everybody achieved a state of consciousness that allowed
Speaker 1: them to understand that we're all in this together.
Speaker 2: Yeah, how do we do that?
Speaker 1: Mushrooms? Yeah?
Speaker 2: Yeah, Well there are certain companies working on this.
Speaker 1: I know. That's what's interesting, right, Like Eli Lilly is
Speaker 1: involved in pharmaceuticals. Well, the pharmaceutical company rather is involved
Speaker 1: in psychledelics.
Speaker 2: They just bought a tie I think it was like.
Speaker 1: Three point eight billion dollars, so they're all in with
Speaker 1: real capital. Yeah. I love it.
Speaker 2: Yeah me too, that's great. I love that they're doing that.
Speaker 2: We need more of that. There's too much depression on
Speaker 2: anxiety in.
Speaker 1: The world and drug addiction. I mean, that's why I
Speaker 1: went to the White House and got the President to
Speaker 1: get involved in this executive order on fiber gain. Yes,
Speaker 1: because I've talked to so many people that have I've
Speaker 1: had their life completely turned around with IBA gain, so
Speaker 1: many people that were opioid addiction and also brain injuries.
Speaker 1: Oddly enough, brain injuries, all sorts of TBI and CTE
Speaker 1: that they've had like phenomenal results from this ebogatry, you know,
Speaker 1: which is so crazy that this thing had been around
Speaker 1: for so long and is a schedule one substance in
Speaker 1: the United States for no reason whatsoever. There's no risk
Speaker 1: of addiction, there is no recreational use of it. It's
Speaker 1: a horrible experience. I've not done it, but apparently it's
Speaker 1: fucking terrible and it lasts for like twenty four hours.
Speaker 1: Like no one's going to be doing that for funzis Well.
Speaker 2: The question I think that comes up with all of
Speaker 2: these drugs is do you have to have the trip
Speaker 2: and experience the craziness to get the better to get
Speaker 2: the benefit? And I don't think, so I think you
Speaker 2: shoud be able to separate.
Speaker 1: Well, you know they've actually figured this out with LSD. Yeah, right,
Speaker 1: do you know about this? Okay, So they've engineered a
Speaker 1: different version of LSD that doesn't give you the hallucinogenic effects,
Speaker 1: but does give you the benefits in terms of like
Speaker 1: the cognitive effects.
Speaker 2: I tell you, guys or someone else.
Speaker 1: I don't know what company has done this, so you
Speaker 1: can find that, Jamy.
Speaker 2: I think it might be a time.
Speaker 1: But what they've they've essentially done, and I think it's
Speaker 1: it's basically in the lab work stage right now. I
Speaker 1: don't think that's applied to humans yet. But what they've
Speaker 1: done is engineered a version of LSD that has all
Speaker 1: the positive effects that LSD has in terms of like introspection,
Speaker 1: being able to rethink and remap and reset the way
Speaker 1: you view things, but without like watching people's face melt
Speaker 1: and thinking the demons are eating you and all the
Speaker 1: weird stuff.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that comes outstanding. It should happen with psychedelics the
Speaker 2: way it's happened with all medicines. Right. We start with yes,
Speaker 2: something from the bark of a willow tree, and then
Speaker 2: we have espirin, Right, not eating bark anymore, right, But.
Speaker 1: Sometimes the bark is the really way the way to
Speaker 1: go right. Unfortunately, sometimes that's the part of the problem
Speaker 1: is these pharmaceutical drug companies they patent these natural compounds
Speaker 1: and you know, use petroleum based synthetic methods of creating
Speaker 1: these medications now that they can sell and profit wildly
Speaker 1: off of, whereas really the best way to do it
Speaker 1: is actually to get the plant.
Speaker 2: It's true that there's the whole issue though that if
Speaker 2: it's not approved, then it's the wild West. You don't
Speaker 2: know what you're getting, right, That's true too. We need
Speaker 2: a middle ground. We need something you can get faster
Speaker 2: in the market that's known to be safe.
Speaker 1: So what we're gonna need is mind reading, because we
Speaker 1: need to know if people are full shit. That's we're
Speaker 1: gonna need.
Speaker 2: We're gonna need gotta work on that.
Speaker 1: Yes, I think that's that's gonna change humanity more than anything.
Speaker 2: I think you've got a good bullshit detector.
Speaker 1: It's okay. There's a few people that have snuck through. Unfortunately,
Speaker 1: you know some people they get through and they're like
Speaker 1: it takes a while, and you're like, ah ah shit, they.
Speaker 2: Ney have coming back on the show.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well there's that. It's the show. You know, you
Speaker 1: learn a lot from a person in about three hours.
Speaker 1: You know, you can kind of after a while, you
Speaker 1: can kind of see little things, and you have to
Speaker 1: be forgiving, and you know, you have to be charitable.
Speaker 1: And some people are just nervous and they mistate things,
Speaker 1: or they exaggerate things, or they forget something, they get
Speaker 1: it wrong. But then there's people that are just essentially
Speaker 1: they really don't care about anybody but themselves. And some
Speaker 1: of those people are really good at pretending to be people.
Speaker 1: They're really good at pretending, you know, they're really good
Speaker 1: at pretending to be like a normal person. Oh, here's
Speaker 1: the LSG thing LSD thing. Roight researchers recently engineered an
Speaker 1: LSD analog called how do you say plus minus JRT
Speaker 1: that appears to keep many of the LSD's brain beneficial
Speaker 1: and cognitive effects while dramatically reducing and possibly eliminating it's
Speaker 1: a hallucinogenic trip in animal studies, so it's almost the
Speaker 1: same molecule as LSD, but scientists swap the positions of
Speaker 1: just two atoms in the structure. The subtle change makes
Speaker 1: JRT bind more selectively to serotonin receptors in a way
Speaker 1: that promotes neuroplasticity growth through a pair of synapses but
Speaker 1: minimizes llucinogenic signaling. That is, that's incredible antidepressant. Look at
Speaker 1: this strong antidepressant effects. That DOS is reported to be
Speaker 1: around one hundred times more potent than ketabe in standard
Speaker 1: rodent tests. Cognitive benefits, improved cognitive flexibility and performance in
Speaker 1: tasks modeling the negative and cognitive symptoms of schizophrenia. Holy shit,
Speaker 1: that's incredible.
Speaker 2: When when and where do we get it?
Speaker 1: Well, I think it's fairly recent UC Davis study. They
Speaker 1: just developed it. Shout out to our AI sponsor, Perplexity
Speaker 1: for providing us with this information. So this is again
Speaker 1: I mean, like we could just get this information now
Speaker 1: through AI. Like I mean this that AI for our
Speaker 1: show has been gigantic. I mean just the ability to
Speaker 1: just ask it a question instead of Google searching and
Speaker 1: have to go through all these different fucking articles. What
Speaker 1: does it say? What is that? Who's right? What's this one?
Speaker 1: What's the website? You just ask AI and Perplexity just
Speaker 1: gives us all the information. So proceedings from National Academy
Speaker 1: of science research is that California of San Diego Davis
Speaker 1: excuse me, University of California Davis reported the creation of
Speaker 1: JRT chemically modified first of LSD. So this is like
Speaker 1: what year, so twenty five, so last year. So it's exciting.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're right that the timeline at a minimum usually
Speaker 2: takes that long. But that's exciting. At least the artiple
Speaker 2: is there that you don't need to lose.
Speaker 1: Well, how about for schizophrenia. Yeah, that's incredible thing. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean that that is incredible because that is one
Speaker 1: of the saddest things to watch somebody fall into the
Speaker 1: grips of schizophrenia.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I've seen people fall in and come out, which is interesting.
Speaker 2: Huh. I thought for the Bullshit Detective, we could have
Speaker 2: an AI that either dings or has a green or
Speaker 2: a red on your forehead.
Speaker 1: I'm pretty good at it, but I think no one's
Speaker 1: perfect at it. And I think ultimately, if we get
Speaker 1: to a place, whether it's a technological innovation or what
Speaker 1: have you, where we can actually read the contents of
Speaker 1: someone's thoughts, I don't think that's outside the realm of possibility.
Speaker 2: You'd need an implant, I think.
Speaker 1: But Elon says, the neuralink is going to be able
Speaker 1: to pull that off.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well you're.
Speaker 1: Going to be able to talk without using words like what.
Speaker 1: I think he's right though. I think if we all
Speaker 1: like lock into a hive mind, and then if we
Speaker 1: develop like through AI, if we develop a universal language worldwide.
Speaker 2: Well we already have that.
Speaker 1: What do we have?
Speaker 2: Well, the new headphones from a big company that I
Speaker 2: won't name. You can translate.
Speaker 1: Translate, yes, translate, but it's translating into English. If we
Speaker 1: just all the problem with that is there's context, There's
Speaker 1: all sorts of different things that other cultures, different languages.
Speaker 1: When it's deciphered and changed and translated into English, you
Speaker 1: lose a lot of the meaning and the context is weird.
Speaker 1: If we develop a universal language.
Speaker 2: That'd be ideal. English is a good substitute. I was shocked.
Speaker 2: I'm always shocked traveling globally, how many people can just
Speaker 2: speak English now.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's pretty amazing. It's because America rules you're welcome.
Speaker 2: Well we have to thank Britain for that. America should
Speaker 2: say you're welcome.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they're they're cute. They did a good job starting out,
Speaker 1: but we took the ball.
Speaker 2: And that is so who's next? Cha? God?
Speaker 1: No, I don't want to learn Chinese. It's too hard.
Speaker 1: It's all the fucking characters. That's ridiculous. Even people that
Speaker 1: I know they could speak Mandarin, they can't write it,
Speaker 1: you know, to like to get to that level. I
Speaker 1: have a couple friends that speak fluent Mandarin and they
Speaker 1: can't write it writing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well that the students in my lab who come
Speaker 2: from China, they're being picked on by the immigration, but
Speaker 2: they don't want to go home. They love it.
Speaker 1: Here, I'm sure because they're stealing all your secrets and
Speaker 1: bring it back.
Speaker 2: Then there's a lot of regulation on that now as
Speaker 2: a scientist.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, oh I can imagine. Yeah, I'm into because
Speaker 1: that is an actual, real threat exactly. So the people
Speaker 1: that come through my lab have to be vetted now, right.
Speaker 1: But the people that come over here and experience the
Speaker 1: kind of freedom that you have in America, Oh yeah.
Speaker 2: I came here from Australia. Australia is pretty free. But
Speaker 2: compared to Australia, America is so different. I can't go back.
Speaker 2: What's the big difference that I feel? I can do
Speaker 2: anything I want if I just put my mind to it.
Speaker 2: There's not social barriers, there's not monetary barriers, at least
Speaker 2: for a white male like me who's got a degree.
Speaker 2: I know it's not for everybody, but I feel like,
Speaker 2: if I want to start a company, I've got a
Speaker 2: great idea, I can do that here. Fat chance you'll
Speaker 2: do that in Australia. People aren't willing to invest in
Speaker 2: great ideas down there. Not often.
Speaker 1: That's a bummer. Do you think they're change anytime?
Speaker 2: Soone? No, US is so unique. There's a lot of
Speaker 2: money flowing. People are willing to place a bet and
Speaker 2: even lose the money. That's rare Australians. Most of the world,
Speaker 2: if not all, people are scared to lose their money
Speaker 2: if they have it. Here, it's like, Okay, I risked it.
Speaker 2: I help the world. I feel good. It's a very
Speaker 2: generous country, very and I love it here. It's when
Speaker 2: I arrived here, I just feel I'm home.
Speaker 1: I love hearing that from people that have come from
Speaker 1: somewhere else because it kind of reaffirms why people in
Speaker 1: America are so proud of what this country is should be. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and that's why it bumps me out where people are
Speaker 1: so mad at America in terms of I get looking
Speaker 1: in terms of foreign policy and some of the things
Speaker 1: that are wrong with America, but just in overall, this
Speaker 1: experiment in self government is pretty remarkable.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I watched the TV show was it? The American
Speaker 2: Experiment came out for the anniversary fiftieth I.
Speaker 1: Haven't seen it.
Speaker 2: You got to see it?
Speaker 1: Well, what's right?
Speaker 2: It's the founding fathers and their lives and how they
Speaker 2: were fighting and what was going on behind the scenes.
Speaker 2: They were just young kids. They were in their.
Speaker 1: Twenties, thirties, I know that nuts.
Speaker 2: Yeah, just Benjamin Franklin was the old dude. But they
Speaker 2: were so young. But they were they were in the
Speaker 2: middle of it. They kind of realized they were making history.
Speaker 2: But so many things could have gone wrong. We would
Speaker 2: not have had the United States if just a few
Speaker 2: votes went one way or the other.
Speaker 1: A few wars, yeah, all.
Speaker 2: The battles that exactly. The US was losing the war.
Speaker 2: Agon's Britain badly. Yeah, the French. Yeah, yeah, we don't
Speaker 2: think the French enough.
Speaker 1: Actually, I know, right, somehow they became our enemy. Remember
Speaker 1: during the Gulf War, they turned French fries into freedom
Speaker 1: fries because people hated the French.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but everyone hates the French because they're so arrogant. Sorry, French.
Speaker 2: I have some friends who are good friends who are French.
Speaker 1: I think generally when people are arrogant, it's because they
Speaker 1: did something fucking awesome.
Speaker 2: Well, in the eighteen hundreds they did they conquered Europe.
Speaker 2: I'm not sure if that's awesome.
Speaker 1: Here's a fun perplexia search I just did.
Speaker 2: I said to Americans have a risk gene.
Speaker 1: A risk gene. Yeah. One of the best studied variants
Speaker 1: in the dopamine perceptor gene d r D four, specifically
Speaker 1: the seven repeat seven R version. It's associated in some
Speaker 1: studies with novelty seeking, impulsivity, and higher financial or social
Speaker 1: risk taking. I wonder if I have that gene for sure?
Speaker 1: This seven probably not? Who knows. The seven R variant
Speaker 1: is unevenly distributed around the world. It's populations in populations
Speaker 1: across the America, as it shows up in roughly forty
Speaker 1: eight percent of chromosons studied, while in East Asia it's
Speaker 1: found in only about two percent. Wow, WHOA, that's crazy.
Speaker 2: It'll come down to genetics.
Speaker 1: Evolutionary work suggest it became more common in groups that
Speaker 1: migrated further after leaving Africa, and those lineages are strongly
Speaker 1: represented in the Americas today. That that actually makes thinking
Speaker 1: of the people that you have the balls to fucking
Speaker 1: come here. Yeah, were your balls. You don't have to
Speaker 1: do that much, but you can still have balls to gamble,
Speaker 1: And yes.
Speaker 2: That must be a but then Australian should have it.
Speaker 1: That completely meant well sort of, you guys got forced there,
Speaker 1: like they moved everybody over there because they were criminals.
Speaker 2: Right, this this d d R gene that you just
Speaker 2: sawt that was a d R four. I know a
Speaker 2: bit about it because I'm writing it in my next book,
Speaker 2: d R D four, Thanks Jamie. I call this the
Speaker 2: f U gene because I'm trying to figure out what
Speaker 2: makes humans special over other animals, and this is one
Speaker 2: of them that we are seekers of explorers, and it's
Speaker 2: it turns out it turns out that this gene is
Speaker 2: turned on in teenagers. It gets eventually switched off, not totally,
Speaker 2: but that might be why teenagers say f you to
Speaker 2: their parents. But it's a way genetically to get them
Speaker 2: out of the nest, like, oh, I can't stand these parents.
Speaker 2: They suck. They're idiots. I'm out of here. That's in
Speaker 2: this in this gene.
Speaker 1: Well, it's also I, as a parent, have been very
Speaker 1: aware of not doing that to my kids, like not
Speaker 1: forcing them into something that they don't want to do,
Speaker 1: or pushing them in any general direction, but rather encouraging
Speaker 1: them to seek out their interests and encouraging them to
Speaker 1: just like take chances. And if I ever correct them,
Speaker 1: if I ever get upset about something, one of the
Speaker 1: first things that I tell them is, I've done all
Speaker 1: everything that you've done. I've made every mistake, I've fucked up.
Speaker 1: You're smarter than me. I've fucked up everything. I've lied
Speaker 1: to my parents, I lied to teachers. I've done everything
Speaker 1: that you're doing. So it's this is not a unique thing.
Speaker 1: I'm just telling you from my own personal experience, in
Speaker 1: my perspective. This is why I think because I love
Speaker 1: you and I want you to do well in life,
Speaker 1: and I just want you to recognize this. And that's
Speaker 1: how I correct my kids. It's never like you listen
Speaker 1: to me because I'm your father.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, the old way we will raise it doesn't work.
Speaker 1: No, and it makes you resentment, but also probably makes
Speaker 1: you want to do better than your parents, So like
Speaker 1: motivates you in a certain way. Like my parents were
Speaker 1: not risk takers at all, and my whole life I've
Speaker 1: been like a wild risk taker.
Speaker 2: That's really same. Yeah, I was resentful that my father
Speaker 2: didn't have enough ambition. Now he's a great guy. We're
Speaker 2: best friends. Actually it's been the greatest thing for me.
Speaker 2: But one of the things I did with my kids
Speaker 2: you reminded me is he's nineteen. He's a well built guy.
Speaker 2: Because we were going to the gym for a number
Speaker 2: of years. I've tried to train him in health, but
Speaker 2: he spent the summer with me. He's literally still working
Speaker 2: for me this summer to help with the podcast in
Speaker 2: the magazine we're about to launch. And Benjamin's his name.
Speaker 2: He's the best kid. But he slacked off. He was like,
Speaker 2: ben I put you in charge of social media. You
Speaker 2: haven't posted in a week. What's going on? Well, you know,
Speaker 2: I slept in blah blah. So I had to think,
Speaker 2: am I gonna get mad at him like I would
Speaker 2: a normal employee, or do I treat him differently? And
Speaker 2: I decided to treat him differently, probably because he's my son.
Speaker 2: But I didn't want to rule the relationship. But what
Speaker 2: I did, as I said, you know, I really think
Speaker 2: you can do better. I think everything you've done, the weightlifting,
Speaker 2: the calculus, you're amazing, but in this you're not. So
Speaker 2: what's going on? And it worked. We become closer. He's
Speaker 2: really into it, he's doing a good job.
Speaker 1: That's great.
Speaker 2: So that's the way to do it. I think you
Speaker 2: can't be too hot on them and say you've fucked up.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, that kind of can work, but it's
Speaker 1: a blunt instrument, and it doesn't work on everybody, and
Speaker 1: it also develops resentment, and they also they miss out
Speaker 1: on experiencing your perspective as a like for them to
Speaker 1: understand that you are just a person who's lived longer
Speaker 1: than them and that you can help them navigate this road.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so you don't have to make the stay same mistakes.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And that's why you're helping them. You're talking to
Speaker 1: them about this, not because you're just a mean dad
Speaker 1: who likes to fucking tell the kids what to do.
Speaker 1: Because we've all experienced that. I mean I had friends
Speaker 1: grown up as fathers will fucking scream at them and
Speaker 1: throw things and beat them and it's like God, and
Speaker 1: then you just grow up fucking traumatized and always resentful
Speaker 1: and angry instead of just recognizing that, like, oh, I'm
Speaker 1: so fortunate that my parents have this perspective where they
Speaker 1: can explain to me why I'm going through what I'm
Speaker 1: going through and how they got through it.
Speaker 2: Like a mentor. You're not the best friend, you're the mentor. Yes,
Speaker 2: my best friend doesn't work either.
Speaker 1: No, that doesn't work either, because that just allows too
Speaker 1: much shenanigans. You know, you have to have some rules,
Speaker 1: you know, you have to have some some sort of regulations,
Speaker 1: but you also.
Speaker 2: Kids turned out, Well, what's that? How do your kids turn?
Speaker 1: I'm so so lucky, so fucking lucky. I mean, I
Speaker 1: feel so fortunate. They're so smart and ambitious and driven
Speaker 1: and so it's wild. It's wild to watch, you know,
Speaker 1: and talented. And it's and also like we never went
Speaker 1: through that period where they hit teenage yeers and they
Speaker 1: hate you like that. God, that's so nice for you.
Speaker 1: I mean, my youngest she get upset at me sometimes
Speaker 1: about certain things, but she bounces back quickly. It's never
Speaker 1: like some kids where they just grow to hate their parents, like.
Speaker 2: Forgen maybe they don't have strong one.
Speaker 1: I don't know about that. I think it's how you
Speaker 1: communicate with them. I really do. I think that's a
Speaker 1: big factor. You have to communicate with them like you
Speaker 1: truly care about their development. And the most important thing.
Speaker 1: I think. The most important thing I think is that
Speaker 1: I always tell them, whatever you've done, whatever mistake you've made,
Speaker 1: I made way worse mistakes. I was like, I am
Speaker 1: not coming at you from a flawless person. You know,
Speaker 1: I'm not coming at you from the perspective of someone
Speaker 1: who like you're an idiot. I figure that out. You
Speaker 1: should figure it out. Like no. I whenever they from
Speaker 1: the time they were really little, anytime I had to
Speaker 1: correct them, I said, I did everything that you're doing everything.
Speaker 2: I threw my food on the floor too.
Speaker 1: Yes, all the above, every whatever fucking stupid thing you've
Speaker 1: done as a kid. I guarantee you.
Speaker 2: That is great advice, really great advice. So I hope
Speaker 2: everyone listening heres that because I actually had to learn
Speaker 2: the hard way my first kid. I did what my
Speaker 2: parents did, which was you can't say that. Yeah, and
Speaker 2: my first is a lot more rebellious and distant than
Speaker 2: my third.
Speaker 1: That is interesting.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it actually is really true. I've seen it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I thought I was going to kill their motivation,
Speaker 1: but it doesn't at all. Well, I thought, like, you know,
Speaker 1: making things easy for them and not being strict, Like
Speaker 1: maybe it's good to be strict because then you just
Speaker 1: have this determination. I'll show everybody. I don't think that
Speaker 1: was my thing as a child, like I'll fucking show you.
Speaker 1: But I don't think everybody needs that. I think you're
Speaker 1: much better off having a healthy relationship with ambition, where
Speaker 1: you're excited about things because you're passionate about them, and
Speaker 1: you find great reward in being creative or being enthusiastic
Speaker 1: about something exactly.
Speaker 2: And open their eyes to the world that exists. Yes,
Speaker 2: we used to do work experience. You go and do
Speaker 2: a job and that's your work experience. The reason I
Speaker 2: wanted my son Ben to work with me is he
Speaker 2: can see how what it's like to be an entrepreneur
Speaker 2: and build something and be excited and work is super fun.
Speaker 2: I think a lot of kids just don't get that experience.
Speaker 2: They don't know what's possible, right, and just showing them
Speaker 2: the world is what we can do as parents.
Speaker 1: That's awesome. Yeah, and you know. I mean, some people
Speaker 1: don't have that at home unfortunately. But that's one of
Speaker 1: the cool things about the world that we live in
Speaker 1: is that kids today have access to so many different
Speaker 1: perspectives now because of the Internet. There's so many different
Speaker 1: podcasts and YouTube conversations and different things where they can
Speaker 1: just take a little tool from that, just take a
Speaker 1: little peace from that and apply it to the way
Speaker 1: they interact with the world.
Speaker 2: For sure. And I would encourage parents to give their
Speaker 2: kids stuff to read. And we talked about social media,
Speaker 2: how that's just addictive. I saw how my kids wanted
Speaker 2: to just scroll through their phones then read. And if
Speaker 2: they can't read a book, give them a magazine. I'd
Speaker 2: subscribe to not Geo National Geographic for my kids, And
Speaker 2: I think get them used to reading. It's going to
Speaker 2: be a lost art if we don't know.
Speaker 1: Isn't that nuts? I maybe read ten percent of the
Speaker 1: things that I consume. I consume so much in audio
Speaker 1: just for time reasons, because there's so much There's so
Speaker 1: much time where I'm driving my car, or I'm working out,
Speaker 1: or I'm in the sauna, or I'm in the hyperbaric chamber,
Speaker 1: or I'm in the red light therapy.
Speaker 2: That's reading three res.
Speaker 1: It is similar, but I think it's only like seventy
Speaker 1: percent of reading. I don't think it's one hundred percent.
Speaker 1: I don't think you get the full effect. But it's
Speaker 1: still way better than not doing it, you know. But
Speaker 1: I'm I'm aware that like sitting there concentrating, actually reading
Speaker 1: a book without hearing another person's voice talking, there's another mechanism,
Speaker 1: there's another thing that's going on. That's it's a different
Speaker 1: way you interact with the material, whether it's nonfiction or fiction. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I like the fact that I can listen to you
Speaker 2: and I'm doing something else. I have to sit down,
Speaker 2: can move, go for a walk.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's for me. It's it's just I'm I have
Speaker 1: too many interests. I have way too many things that
Speaker 1: I do, and so it's very hard for me to
Speaker 1: just allocate a certain amount of time to sit there
Speaker 1: in silence and read. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I use reading to fall asleep. That's a good way.
Speaker 1: It does do that, right, It's kind of nuts how
Speaker 1: well it does that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, although I'm finding it's harder to read now that
Speaker 2: my eyes on young need some of my gen I've
Speaker 2: tried that. Does it work?
Speaker 1: For you. Oh yeah, Oh, I mean people are skeptical
Speaker 1: about this and they think I'm full of shit. No,
Speaker 1: I don't need reading glasses anymore. Really, yes, I had
Speaker 1: reading I always have these fucking things laying around. I
Speaker 1: don't even use them anymore.
Speaker 2: It's awesome. Yeah, there's a lot of signs now.
Speaker 1: The red light it's real. I can tell you as
Speaker 1: a regular user for multiple years. It took a while.
Speaker 1: It took like I was waiting for it in the beginning,
Speaker 1: like what the fuck In fact, and not only that,
Speaker 1: in the beginning, because I don't close my eyes in
Speaker 1: the red light bed, I thought it was making things blurrier.
Speaker 1: I was like, oh my god, am I fucking up
Speaker 1: my eyesight like listening to these assholes? But no, it
Speaker 1: just took a while, and then over the course of
Speaker 1: like many months, I started seeing some small improvements, and
Speaker 1: then I started seeing some pretty big improvements over the
Speaker 1: course of about a year. Whereas now it's not My
Speaker 1: eyes aren't perfect. They aren't like they were when I
Speaker 1: was twenty, but they are way better than they were
Speaker 1: when I was fifty.
Speaker 2: Oh often did you have to do that?
Speaker 1: I do it three times a week minimum. That's what
Speaker 1: I try to do, but sometimes I'll do it five
Speaker 1: days a week. Well, I just get in there and
Speaker 1: it's twenty minutes. I lay in a light bed, close
Speaker 1: my eyes, open my eyes whatever. It seems to work
Speaker 1: on your vision, even if you wear a blindfold.
Speaker 2: What about people that kind of a bed?
Speaker 1: Can you get a little, Yes, you can get. Well,
Speaker 1: there's a company called it's called Jewve right j u
Speaker 1: u V is that the name of the company. They
Speaker 1: were our sponsor at one point in time. That's how
Speaker 1: I started it. They had it's just a light panel
Speaker 1: that you stand in front of and that that works too.
Speaker 1: That but this one, the one that I got a
Speaker 1: red and near infrared light therapy devices juve joo vv
Speaker 1: medical grade light therapy devices. I had one of those
Speaker 1: and that's when I started seeing benefits. But the the
Speaker 1: big one that I got, I got from Gary Breca
Speaker 1: from his company, and it's it's a like a fucking
Speaker 1: tanning bed and you lie in it. And that one's amazing.
Speaker 1: But that's expensive. But I don't think you have to
Speaker 1: have that for those kind of improvements. Also improves collagen
Speaker 1: your skin, makes you look better and the but for me,
Speaker 1: the most obvious and profound was the improvement in my vision?
Speaker 2: Well, it makes sense. The signs behind red light wasn't
Speaker 2: there ten years ago and people were questioning it. But
Speaker 2: now we know if you shine certain wavelengths like near
Speaker 2: infra red on cells the mitochondria, which are important for
Speaker 2: reversing aging or slowing it get redd up. It's actually
Speaker 2: related to viagra. Long story, but viagra and red light
Speaker 2: if something is in common, and it does help mitochondria,
Speaker 2: and that's very important for the eye, that mighty chondria
Speaker 2: actually the most important in any part of your body.
Speaker 2: The eye is the most important part. And part of
Speaker 2: the reason we lose our vision is the mitochondria don't
Speaker 2: make enough energy for.
Speaker 1: The How come you haven't done red light therapy before.
Speaker 2: Then, Well, I do, but not routinely. So I have
Speaker 2: one of those bricks that I turn on while I'm
Speaker 2: in the shower, and I have a red light cap
Speaker 2: for my hair, which there's some evidence.
Speaker 1: Alien what I do is I, yeah, it does.
Speaker 2: It looks a little bit silly. I don't worri it
Speaker 2: in public. I do lower it and I look at
Speaker 2: it and it shines in my eyes and on my
Speaker 2: face in the hopes that it might help you.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they have one that you wear like doctor Doom,
Speaker 1: like fits over your face and blast red light and
Speaker 1: your whole face.
Speaker 2: I definitely feel a bit weird afterwards, and I can
Speaker 2: see speckles. But I think the science says that it
Speaker 2: can help.
Speaker 1: Well, all I know is my own anecdotal experience, and
Speaker 1: for me, it has radically improved my vision.
Speaker 2: That's a good tip.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it stopped. It was my vision was degrading, like
Speaker 1: it was. It was pretty odd. Like I first started
Speaker 1: using like reading glasses like a one x like it
Speaker 1: made it a little better. I'm like, oh, this a
Speaker 1: little better, makes it clearer. And then I went to
Speaker 1: two and then I was using two point five and
Speaker 1: it made it better, but it was like, God, this
Speaker 1: is annoying. And then if I would try to read
Speaker 1: an email and I didn't have my reading glasses, I
Speaker 1: couldn't read shit. Now crystal clear, Yeah, no problem at all.
Speaker 2: Well, so my latest show is about the eye and
Speaker 2: how to protect the eye's health, and so there's a
Speaker 2: lot you can do, actually, supplements, red light, other things.
Speaker 1: I take supplements for it too. I should mention that
Speaker 1: I take No, I have no affiliation with these people
Speaker 1: with pure encapsulations makes a supplement called macular support, and
Speaker 1: I take that and it's a combination of lutine and
Speaker 1: a few other things.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there was a trial a while ago that showed
Speaker 2: that taking xanthine and others as to xanthine, lute lutine,
Speaker 2: they're good for the eye. So you can get products
Speaker 2: like that.
Speaker 1: Do you take it?
Speaker 2: Not that brand, but yes, I take something similar.
Speaker 1: And has it helped you at all?
Speaker 2: I don't know. I haven't done an experiment.
Speaker 1: Right, Well, if you weren't taking it, maybe you would
Speaker 1: have more degeneration.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, you know I've got neoperfect vision. I don't
Speaker 2: need glasses, do you really? Yeah? Near perfect, neoperfect. I
Speaker 2: mean I think low light.
Speaker 1: Low light is with me. Yeah, where I'll go to
Speaker 1: a restaurant with my kids and they can read the
Speaker 1: menu and I'm like, that is so embarrassing. You can
Speaker 1: read that? How do you read that? I can't read shit?
Speaker 2: I don't know why?
Speaker 1: Why?
Speaker 2: Well, this is what I think. So we know from
Speaker 2: my lab's work that the retina, because it has tens
Speaker 2: of thousands of endings that pick up the light. As
Speaker 2: you get older, those nerves lose their identity and they're
Speaker 2: not working as well. And what we do is with
Speaker 2: our therapy, we can restore those nerves back to being
Speaker 2: functional nerves. And that's why mice and monkeys that lose
Speaker 2: their retinal function get their perfect vision back again. We're
Speaker 2: reminding those cells that have forgotten how to work. So
Speaker 2: in your eye and my eye were twenty two months apart,
Speaker 2: that those nerves, about half of them have forgotten how
Speaker 2: to work properly. So we want to fix that and
Speaker 2: go back to being young. It's not that our nerves
Speaker 2: are gone. They're not dead. They're right there and we
Speaker 2: can restore them. And that's going to be true for
Speaker 2: a lot of organs, is that the cells are still there.
Speaker 2: They just need to be reminded how to work again.
Speaker 1: What are the potential negative consequences of this kind of
Speaker 1: work when you sit up at night and you worry,
Speaker 1: I hope it doesn't do this. Is it cancer? Is
Speaker 1: that the big one? Yeah?
Speaker 2: It's though we've done a lot of work to allay
Speaker 2: real fears, it is possible that if we go too
Speaker 2: young we can cause displasia, which is cells doing what
Speaker 2: they shouldn't, or if they multiply and spread. That would
Speaker 2: because if.
Speaker 1: You make the cells too young, like what I was
Speaker 1: saying before about, don't turn me into a baby.
Speaker 2: Right, we don't want to go there. That's what Yamanaka
Speaker 2: did and got the Nobell for it. But that's not
Speaker 2: good here. But we never see our cells turn into
Speaker 2: stem cells again, we can't. We had mice that we
Speaker 2: left it, left the gene therapy on for twenty one
Speaker 2: months in the eye and nineteen months in the whole
Speaker 2: body of the animal, and if anything, they had less
Speaker 2: tumors than the ones that didn't get treated. And we
Speaker 2: actually know from a wonderful student in my lab and
Speaker 2: a lot she's a PhD student. She found that when
Speaker 2: you turn on these three same genes not in the
Speaker 2: I but in cancer cells and tumors growing in mice,
Speaker 2: human cancers growing in mice, they shrink. So we think
Speaker 2: it might actually help for cancer as well, which was
Speaker 2: a nice surprise.
Speaker 1: Wow, that's incredible.
Speaker 2: It makes sense. Right if you wake up a cancer
Speaker 2: cell and it says, crap, I shouldn't be growing. I
Speaker 2: should be a you know, a liver cell or something similar.
Speaker 2: Now it kills itself. So we see that the cells
Speaker 2: wake up, they realize what they were thirty years ago,
Speaker 2: and then they killed themselves.
Speaker 1: What is on the horizon in terms of like what
Speaker 1: would you like to accomplish or would you like to
Speaker 1: work on that you can't do currently?
Speaker 2: Well, lots lots. You know, funding in my lab got
Speaker 2: completely cut last year, and we've managed to survive through donations.
Speaker 1: We while the funding get cut. Was it a USAID thing?
Speaker 2: You remember there was a spat between Harvard and the
Speaker 2: federal government. All of the funding to Harvard Medical School
Speaker 2: got cut.
Speaker 1: Was that during the time where the president was defending
Speaker 1: those anti semitic comments on campuses?
Speaker 2: Yeah, well allegedly. I'm not getting into the politics.
Speaker 1: No, you need to get into politics. But during that
Speaker 1: whole thing, Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2: So what I almost had to fire most of the
Speaker 2: people in my lab during that episode was quite scary,
Speaker 2: but I raised so now my lab survives on donations,
Speaker 2: not on federal government money. Thank you, friends, thank you,
Speaker 2: thank you.
Speaker 1: Well, the thing is, you've accomplished enough where people are like,
Speaker 1: I think he's onto something and I want to live forever.
Speaker 2: Well, I'm lucky. Most scientists can't raise money like that.
Speaker 2: So really, really, it's a blessing, and now I'm raising
Speaker 2: money through a foundation to help other scientists survive. But yeah,
Speaker 2: it's been a blessing. But your question was what do
Speaker 2: I wish I could do? Yeah, I wish I could
Speaker 2: go faster. I wish I could try multiple approaches so
Speaker 2: we don't used to have one shot on goal. It's
Speaker 2: going slower than I would want. With a big injection
Speaker 2: of cash, we could do a lot of trials, a
Speaker 2: lot of different tissues. We could do a whole body
Speaker 2: rejuvenation as well.
Speaker 1: Do you have a website where people can donate?
Speaker 2: I do. It's lifespan dot com.
Speaker 1: So if you go to lifespan dot com, there's a
Speaker 1: link there.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you can do it. A foundation and we're raising
Speaker 2: money for this type of research.
Speaker 1: Is it tax deductible.
Speaker 2: Depends on how big the donation is. For ten dollars,
Speaker 2: you get the new magazine that we're putting out and
Speaker 2: you learn all about how to live longer building. I'm
Speaker 2: hoping to build the world's largest longevity community of millions
Speaker 2: of people who can learn how to really live longer
Speaker 2: and build healthcare from the ground up because top down
Speaker 2: from the government hasn't worked. Yeah. Actually, I have a
Speaker 2: gift for you.
Speaker 1: Where you are.
Speaker 2: I made something for you that's unique. This is for you, Joe,
Speaker 2: as a thanks it's all the support you've given me
Speaker 2: and the science over the years.
Speaker 1: First edition Lifespan Magazine. Ladies and gentlemen, look at that.
Speaker 2: It's written by scientists.
Speaker 1: So it's cover. It's like a velvet cover. What is this?
Speaker 2: I figured it might like that. Inside is the magazine?
Speaker 1: Is this material?
Speaker 2: It's beautiful lure of course, a great expense. No, the
Speaker 2: magazine doesn't come with the lore. That's just special for Joe.
Speaker 1: As a thank you, President, Thank you very much.
Speaker 2: Most most science out there is written by reporters who
Speaker 2: don't know what they're talking about, and so we want
Speaker 2: we wrote this for the public and you can believe
Speaker 2: whatever you read.
Speaker 1: In there, all right beautiful and so you have to
Speaker 1: trust it.
Speaker 2: So that's at lifespan dot com. You can subscribe get
Speaker 2: that every month just for ten bucks.
Speaker 1: I like to take at the bottom, life's too short.
Speaker 1: Let's fix that.
Speaker 2: That's our slogan.
Speaker 1: That's Lifespan slogan. Yeah, it's an awesome slogan.
Speaker 2: So it's it's a it's a community, it's the show
Speaker 2: my show is also called Lifespan on YouTube. But the
Speaker 2: magazine is a passion project. I want to put out
Speaker 2: something that people love. It's beautiful, right, It's like National
Speaker 2: Geographic by the way, just today, This is no joke.
Speaker 2: It seems crazy, but my labs research is on the
Speaker 2: cover of National Geographic.
Speaker 1: Oh that's awesome.
Speaker 2: That just came out today. They heard, by the way,
Speaker 2: at that geo. They said, you're going on Joe Rogan.
Speaker 2: I went yeah, they goes, all right, we'll put it
Speaker 2: out early so you can now read about my lab's
Speaker 2: research on that geo as well today.
Speaker 1: That's very cool. That's very cool. So you would just
Speaker 1: like to do more, have more funding, do more. That's
Speaker 1: the thing that you wish you could be working on now,
Speaker 1: just having more different, more different studies and tests running concurrently.
Speaker 2: We could go so fast with AI because it's spitting
Speaker 2: out new drug candidates all the time that we can't test.
Speaker 2: It takes years to get through. So with money, we
Speaker 2: could do a lot more trials and put these through
Speaker 2: different diseases much faster.
Speaker 1: If you had no regulations, like an Island of Doctor
Speaker 1: Moreau type deal.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, you know, well, at the risk of getting
Speaker 2: kicked out of my universe. Theoretically we could very safely
Speaker 2: do more animal studies and with those best candidates put
Speaker 2: them into humans quicker. Right now, it takes years. It's
Speaker 2: taken us close to ten years to go from the
Speaker 2: first discovery in my lab in Nature magazine to now.
Speaker 2: But that's too slow. People dying one hundred and fifty
Speaker 2: thousand a day on this planet. It's terrible. So I
Speaker 2: would love to have the resources, you know, like Jeff
Speaker 2: Bezos and others. Yeah, my company, by the way, even
Speaker 2: though we lead the pack of all these guys, we're
Speaker 2: really small. We're a pretty small little outfit in Boston.
Speaker 2: We've raised a lot less money, but we're because I
Speaker 2: think we're focused. We have and we started earlier. We're
Speaker 2: doing pretty well.
Speaker 1: That's the big one. You started earlier, You have a
Speaker 1: lot of momentum on your side.
Speaker 2: But I think we we could have a big impact
Speaker 2: on aging in our lifetime with more money directed in
Speaker 2: general at the field, not just me, but spread it.
Speaker 2: And so the money that we raise from the magazine
Speaker 2: is going to support other labs as well and students
Speaker 2: who can find these medicines quicker.
Speaker 1: So if you in a perfect world and you had
Speaker 1: unlimited resources, you would just run a bunch of different
Speaker 1: clinical trials and studies.
Speaker 2: Concurrently, Yeah, AI is feeding us molecules, We put them
Speaker 2: into mice, we go to monkeys, we go to humans,
Speaker 2: and it'll just be fast. One of my friends, Alex Zakkarnkov,
Speaker 2: he has a similar company, but not on exactly what
Speaker 2: we do, not on reprogramming, but he's able to think
Speaker 2: he's on his thirty fifth drug, but he's driven by
Speaker 2: AI and robots. His whole lab is robots, at least
Speaker 2: he says they are, and then goes into humans and
Speaker 2: his company is worth billions. That approach applied to what
Speaker 2: we do would be incredible.
Speaker 1: Hmm, that's best case scenario. That would be incredible. Well,
Speaker 1: I'm hoping through this conversation that people are going to
Speaker 1: reach out and I'm hoping through this conversation that people
Speaker 1: realizing like, oh, well, so much work has been done
Speaker 1: and so many breakthroughs have been made. If they had
Speaker 1: more access to resources, more access to different whatever you need,
Speaker 1: you know, and that you could run all these different studies,
Speaker 1: we could.
Speaker 2: We were Our budget in my lab is only it's
Speaker 2: almost three three and a bit millions, not much, right,
Speaker 2: compared to what impact it could have on the planet,
Speaker 2: which is trillions of dollars saved just in the US alone.
Speaker 2: So it's a little bit of donation or getting a magazine,
Speaker 2: the impact would be life changing for all of us.
Speaker 2: Who doesn't age, who doesn't get.
Speaker 1: Diseases, right, who doesn't want to feel better?
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's also.
Speaker 1: Like so much you can get so much more done
Speaker 1: if you feel better.
Speaker 2: Well, we take it for granted until we feel sick,
Speaker 2: and it's like, oh right, I forgot what it's like
Speaker 2: to feel well exactly.
Speaker 1: I had a day a week and a half ago
Speaker 1: where I came back from Italy. I was a little
Speaker 1: jet lagged, I didn't sleep right, and I worked out
Speaker 1: really hard a bunch of days in a row, and
Speaker 1: I was working constantly, and then I had one day
Speaker 1: I was like, I kind of feel like shit, like
Speaker 1: I better not do anything today, and I, you know,
Speaker 1: after I was on work, I just watched TV and relaxed.
Speaker 1: I went and I was like, I can't wait to
Speaker 1: feel better again.
Speaker 2: Well, imagine what it's like being old, yes, and frail.
Speaker 2: That's every day or sick, and right now you can't
Speaker 2: do anything about it.
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, and while you're healthy, you take it for granted,
Speaker 1: and that's the real sin. Like you're like, ah, I'm fine,
Speaker 1: I'm great. I mean, this is what people do when
Speaker 1: they go out drinking, right, They take advantage of the
Speaker 1: fact that it's worth it for a good time. Just
Speaker 1: poison myself for a night.
Speaker 2: Well, it's not worth it because that also accelerates aging
Speaker 2: a big time, Right, is what I tell my kids
Speaker 2: who like alcohol. Like my kids, you know, you might
Speaker 2: feel better in a few days, but the memory of
Speaker 2: that is going to be in your body. Yeah, I
Speaker 2: think you can drink. It's you know, it's fine to
Speaker 2: get drunk once in a while, but not a lot,
Speaker 2: not constantly. I used to drink once a day, and
Speaker 2: I do not do that anymore because the date is
Speaker 2: incontrovertible that it affects the brain, even the size of
Speaker 2: the brain, if you drink constantly consisting.
Speaker 1: I took eight months off of no alcohol at all,
Speaker 1: and I felt a lot better.
Speaker 2: Exactly.
Speaker 1: I started drinking again one night. I went to dinner
Speaker 1: with my wife and had a margarite, and I was like,
Speaker 1: I think I'm back.
Speaker 2: Ah, really, well, I saw I drink now I do
Speaker 2: not get drunk.
Speaker 1: I haven't gotten drunk. This was over a year ago.
Speaker 1: It was when I had a drink again, I think
Speaker 1: I think it was a year I'm not sure, but
Speaker 1: point is I have not been drunk since then. I
Speaker 1: will have a glass of wine with dinner, or I
Speaker 1: will have a like a shot of whiskey before I
Speaker 1: go on stage, like a little bit. But I do
Speaker 1: not get drunk anymore. It's just not worth it. The
Speaker 1: feeling words, is so terrible the morning, and especially for
Speaker 1: me because I work out so much. When I wake up,
Speaker 1: it's like that workout's gonna get done, okay, whether I
Speaker 1: feel like shit or not, that workout is gonna get done.
Speaker 1: And this is gonna be rough, and.
Speaker 2: Then you got the sweats, it's all right.
Speaker 1: Versus when I feel great, I love the workout. I'm excited,
Speaker 1: like I look forward to it, even when it's hard.
Speaker 1: When it's over, I'm like, whoo, all right, let's see,
Speaker 1: and I don't feel bad. I feel good, And it's like,
Speaker 1: why am I giving up that for a few hours
Speaker 1: of a You know, it's just not worth it. It's
Speaker 1: not worth it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, you're funny even without alcohol. But I'm not so.
Speaker 2: I've lost a lot of my humor. But there's nothing
Speaker 2: better than feeling great. Right. Yes, and you can make
Speaker 2: it your hobby of working on your health and your longevity. Yeah,
Speaker 2: you'll enjoy it. Yes, it shouldn't be a chore.
Speaker 1: It'll also directly affect the other things that you love
Speaker 1: because you will have more energy your life. Energy, your
Speaker 1: vitality is so important for anything you're doing, whether it's
Speaker 1: a creative thing or an intellectual thing, like anything that
Speaker 1: you're doing, if you have more energy, you'll be able
Speaker 1: to apply more energy to that thing. It's that simple.
Speaker 1: You're building a bigger gas tank for yourself. You're building
Speaker 1: a larger engine, and that's what you're.
Speaker 2: Doing exactly mentally, physically, you can do so much. When
Speaker 2: you feel good, you jump out of bed. If you
Speaker 2: wake up and you're tired, woozy, you know your eyes
Speaker 2: are puffy, that's not how it should be when you
Speaker 2: wake up. If you're getting and sleep is important for longevity.
Speaker 2: Of course, if you're getting good deep sleep, then you
Speaker 2: should wake up and you feel great. Yes, yes, you
Speaker 2: don't even necessarily need a cup of coffee, but it's
Speaker 2: not bad if you have one.
Speaker 1: I like coffee. I'm not gonna stop drinking it now.
Speaker 1: I'll give a fuck what anybody says.
Speaker 2: Right, it's good.
Speaker 1: And it's also like conflicting information. Some people say it's
Speaker 1: good for you, there's benefits.
Speaker 2: It's good for you. Come on, that's what I say. Oh,
Speaker 2: it really is. Anyone that says it's not doesn't read
Speaker 2: the well.
Speaker 1: I would imagine. An over abundance of caffeine is not good.
Speaker 1: Too much is not good. But that's true for everything.
Speaker 1: Too much salt of killer, Yeah, exact pound of salt,
Speaker 1: You'll be dead in an hour.
Speaker 2: Right, You can get away with very little sleep, actually
Speaker 2: as long as a deep sleep, because what it's doing
Speaker 2: is clearing out the misfolded proteins in your brain and
Speaker 2: the toxins. We know this the glymphatic system. And if
Speaker 2: you get deep sleep for you know, an hour, you're
Speaker 2: actually going to wake up much cleaner, healthier. And what
Speaker 2: I've been able to do with some work is figure
Speaker 2: out how to get deep sleep every night. Efficiency on
Speaker 2: these rings that say but above ninety Sometimes I like.
Speaker 1: You say rings because you're wearing two aur rings or okay,
Speaker 1: why do you wear two different rings?
Speaker 2: Because when I've got to neither of them is correct.
Speaker 2: Now that the truth is some of them, some of
Speaker 2: them are really good for sleep. The others are good
Speaker 2: for a heart. And so I've this one's my heart,
Speaker 2: this is my sleep.
Speaker 1: What is the difference in the companies? Which one's which?
Speaker 2: Um, you don't mind me saying who they are? This
Speaker 2: is an aura, the one right, and then the thinner
Speaker 2: one is called ultra human ultra human?
Speaker 1: And which one is good for what?
Speaker 2: Well? I find aura really good for sleep, that's their specialty.
Speaker 2: And then the heart for ultra human my cardiac age.
Speaker 1: Okay, So it's just like giving you data all the time.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and they're getting even better because they I don't
Speaker 2: get paid by these companies, but I do like that
Speaker 2: they pop up with AI information. Now have you noticed
Speaker 2: that data? Da Or I noticed that you ate a
Speaker 2: meal last night that spiked your glucose, you know? And
Speaker 2: this one I have a monitor on right now, so
Speaker 2: I can see what's going on anyway. But yeah, they're becoming.
Speaker 1: Like a fucking monitored bro. I am two rings and
Speaker 1: a patch.
Speaker 2: It's a it's a hobby. It's a hobby, but you
Speaker 2: learn a lot. And I put one of these on
Speaker 2: my son, and he stopped eating bad food for a
Speaker 2: long while.
Speaker 1: Really, because he was just racking the impact of.
Speaker 2: The it's good for kids.
Speaker 1: Now.
Speaker 2: I wouldn't say slap it on a kid without pediatrician recommendation,
Speaker 2: but it was amazing what happened when he could see
Speaker 2: the crap that was going in his mouth was doing
Speaker 2: to his blood sugar. Really, it was amazing. I think
Speaker 2: it's a great learning tool if nothing else.
Speaker 1: Right, just to have actual data. I know a lot
Speaker 1: of people it's changed their opinion on alcohol, particularly the
Speaker 1: or ring when they look at their sleep, because even
Speaker 1: just a couple of drinks before you go to bed,
Speaker 1: like a couple of drinks at dinner, and then you realize, like,
Speaker 1: oh god, my sleep was all fucked up because of
Speaker 1: those drinks.
Speaker 2: Yeah, lay off the medafinil too for me anyway.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, some medafinol fucks with your sleep as well.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I have to work really hard to sleep. Well.
Speaker 2: There's quiet time, there's relaxation, the lights are dimmed. I
Speaker 2: think about a happy place rather than work. I had
Speaker 2: to do that because for fifty years I was burning
Speaker 2: the candle at all ends. I was really burnt out
Speaker 2: and so I've fixed that now I don't worry.
Speaker 1: So are you one of those guys that like dims
Speaker 1: the lights in your house a couple hours before you
Speaker 1: go to bed and prepare it. Stay off your phone? Yeah,
Speaker 1: all that stuff.
Speaker 2: Well, I don't stay off my phone as much as
Speaker 2: I want to.
Speaker 1: But to wear red light glasses or anything like blockers.
Speaker 2: I used to. I haven't found a big difference for myself.
Speaker 2: But interesting fact that isn't well known if you block
Speaker 2: blue light during the day or just stay indoors. There's
Speaker 2: a guy in Japan who says that what happens is
Speaker 2: you get short sightedness, and because the mice that lack
Speaker 2: the ability to sense violet light get myopia short sighted
Speaker 2: and he's got a device that indoors you can shinness.
Speaker 2: But our modern world, the LEDs and being indoors means
Speaker 2: we barely get violet light. And that would be that
Speaker 2: would be so interesting if that's what's causing last half
Speaker 2: I have to wear glasses. Wow. And he claims that
Speaker 2: people that live out in the countryside that see blue
Speaker 2: light all the time because they go out, don't have
Speaker 2: as much need for glasses.
Speaker 1: That actually makes sense. Well, particularly artificial light, and then
Speaker 1: also light that's from a close source. Like one of
Speaker 1: the things that if I do, if I'm tired and
Speaker 1: I lay in bed and I try to read something
Speaker 1: online on my phone, it hurts my eyes. The room's dark,
Speaker 1: and it's like it irritates my eyes, where it never
Speaker 1: irritates my eyes normally, but it's like at the end
Speaker 1: of the day, you know, I guess I'm more fatigued.
Speaker 2: And so then and you're trying to focus on Yeah.
Speaker 1: So like, now, think about that when people are doing
Speaker 1: it all day long. Maybe you're doing it at work
Speaker 1: where you have to start at a computer monitor from
Speaker 1: three feet away or closer, and then you're looking at
Speaker 1: your phone all the time, or you're working from a
Speaker 1: tablet or you're watching television. It's like you're constantly staring
Speaker 1: at these light sources that are artificial.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And also keep in mind that the muscles have
Speaker 2: to focus. It's not naturally you don't naturally look this far.
Speaker 2: Naturally you relax, you see out there right to look here,
Speaker 2: your muscles here have to be straining for hours and
Speaker 2: they get very tired, and I guess eventually they age
Speaker 2: to a point where you cannot keep it up, and
Speaker 2: sometimes I do this to see better though.
Speaker 1: Well, it all makes sense if you think about it,
Speaker 1: particularly like if your eyes are accustomed to only focusing
Speaker 1: on things that are close. I mean, that was what
Speaker 1: they would say about reading when people would have glasses, Oh,
Speaker 1: you fucked up your vision reading, which I used to
Speaker 1: think was nonsense. But I'm like, well, kind of makes sense.
Speaker 1: If you spend all day long focus even though it's
Speaker 1: on a screen, You're spending all day long focusing on
Speaker 1: a book that's only a foot from your face.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it does make sense, and the lens gets really inflexible, right,
Speaker 2: And I'm seeing this with my father. He's otherwise in
Speaker 2: perfect health at eighty seven, which is amazing, but it's
Speaker 2: his eyes that are failing him.
Speaker 1: Maybe you should get him a red light bed.
Speaker 2: That's a great idea. Yeah, I'm gonna do that. He's
Speaker 2: arriving tonight actually from Sydney.
Speaker 1: He's uh, he's gonna get him a red light bed, man,
Speaker 1: because I'm telling you, there's not a thing that I've
Speaker 1: done that's impacted me in a more obvious way than
Speaker 1: that in terms of like something that's.
Speaker 2: Hugely Yeah, I'm going to do it, And I mean
Speaker 2: he's into science. He's been taking and aman resveratrol mid
Speaker 2: foreman exercising. He goes to the gym two or three
Speaker 2: times a week six months. He's a role model at
Speaker 2: eighty seven, with no diseases, no aches or pains. He's
Speaker 2: struggling the world. He was in Japan two weeks ago. Wow,
Speaker 2: coming to the Boston.
Speaker 1: That's so cool. I love hearing about people that are
Speaker 1: older that just keep on top of it and stay
Speaker 1: active and stay alive and enjoy life.
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. He's a great role model. And what it
Speaker 2: shows is he was an average guy till he was
Speaker 2: in his sixties, and he figured he was going to
Speaker 2: die in his seventies, probably because everyone in my family
Speaker 2: dies young because we've got pretty bad jeans. But he's
Speaker 2: just taken life by the horns and just is running
Speaker 2: with it and has not physically aged except for his
Speaker 2: eyes in the last twenty years. And that's not an exaggeration.
Speaker 2: Anyone who's seen him knows. He walks, he moves, he travels,
Speaker 2: he does everything he was when he was forty.
Speaker 1: That's where things like resistance exercises are so important because
Speaker 1: it maintains bone density, maintains muscle mass, maintains your ability
Speaker 1: to just get around and do things.
Speaker 2: That's the other reason to do that. I mean, you're
Speaker 2: going to be really strong when you're older, and you
Speaker 2: won't fall, and if you do fall, you'll bounce, you
Speaker 2: won't break a bone. And he's like that. He's been
Speaker 2: working out at the gym, mostly strength training, but balance
Speaker 2: as well. It's very important to maintain balance. He's better
Speaker 2: at the gym than me at eighty seven.
Speaker 1: That's incredible.
Speaker 2: That just shows how Yeah, I got to go to
Speaker 2: the gym. How about next time? If you have me on,
Speaker 2: you're gonna be buff. Do you get your trainer. You're
Speaker 2: in Massachusetts. There's a ton of trainers out there. Great,
Speaker 2: it's a deal.
Speaker 1: We'll find you someone. We'll find you someone. Three days
Speaker 1: a week. That's all you need. The other days you
Speaker 1: could do stuff elective, do stuff that you want, you know,
Speaker 1: but three days a week, get a personal trainer and
Speaker 1: work out with them. Right, you're on all right?
Speaker 2: You know when it's going or you help me. I
Speaker 2: can hear though that. There's probably a few million people
Speaker 2: right now screaming David. Just go to the lab. Forget
Speaker 2: about the gym you.
Speaker 1: Need to help your stop work. It'll help everything. It'll
Speaker 1: help the amount of research you're able to do. You'll
Speaker 1: have more energy, you'll be more excited about things. I'm
Speaker 1: sure you've seen those MRI cross sections of people's tissue
Speaker 1: where they take like a seven year old man who's
Speaker 1: sedentary versus seven year old man who's a marathon runner.
Speaker 1: It's fucking extraordinary.
Speaker 2: I've seen my own. There's there's too much fat in
Speaker 2: the muscle. Got to get rid of it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it's really extraordinary. When you see those images
Speaker 1: like those, really bring it home.
Speaker 2: And the bone changes, bone turns to fat too, parts
Speaker 2: of the bones. So, yes, you got to have the
Speaker 2: strength training for sure.
Speaker 1: Yeah. One hundred percent strength training is that's mandatory. Yeah.
Speaker 2: And then do you do a lot of aerobic exercises. Yes, yeah,
Speaker 2: I saw the training bike.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, well you saw my hypoxia machines and you
Speaker 1: just got stalled today. Yeah. The hypoxia thing. What it
Speaker 1: does is it replicates fourteen thousand feet above sea level
Speaker 1: and you train in it. And it also has a
Speaker 1: heat element so you could ramp the heat up to
Speaker 1: one hundred and fifteen degrees. So one hundred and fifteen
Speaker 1: degrees and fourteen thousand feet about.
Speaker 2: Kind of stuff.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're going to hell, that's what it is. Straight
Speaker 1: to feel like it, but it shouldn't work right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, POxy is great for muscle.
Speaker 1: Yes, and for adaptation, that's the big thing. And my
Speaker 1: friend Roman who installed it, who's owns one of the
Speaker 1: guys from the company, it's a very they're very specific
Speaker 1: with this protocol in terms of monitoring your heart rate,
Speaker 1: when to do it, when to push, how much time
Speaker 1: to spend, and how you do it. And it's very
Speaker 1: scientific in terms of the application on athletes and that's
Speaker 1: a My friend Adam Greentree turned me onto it, fellow Australian,
Speaker 1: and he's a big hunter and does a lot of
Speaker 1: mountain hunting and he said there's nothing he's ever done
Speaker 1: that's had more of an impact on his cardio. So
Speaker 1: it's been phenomenal.
Speaker 2: Sounds wonderful. Actually there's a lot of science behind that.
Speaker 2: You probably know it. The best results are when people
Speaker 2: are either having too much oxygen or not enough. And
Speaker 2: you might say, well that's weird, why does it matter, Well,
Speaker 2: you got to get out of the comfort zone. Hormesis.
Speaker 2: We keep talking about. And there's a big study in
Speaker 2: Israel where they put people in these hyperbaric chambers.
Speaker 1: I've done that protocol. Yeah yeah, sixty sessions of ninety
Speaker 1: minutes over ninety days.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah, I have one a loss, you do, Yeah,
Speaker 2: because the data's incontrovertible, better wound healing, better memory.
Speaker 1: Increase in telemar length.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I saw that one. That's the Israel's study.
Speaker 1: Yes.
Speaker 2: What I thought was interesting was when I went over
Speaker 2: there myself and sat in that thing. They made a
Speaker 2: joke over there in Israel. By the way, they said,
Speaker 2: this gas chamber here that were you going into, made
Speaker 2: by Germans. I thought, that's not a funny joke. Don't
Speaker 2: say that again. Anyway, I probably shouldn't have shared that.
Speaker 2: I did go into the chamber, and what I found
Speaker 2: out and was that they believe what I believe, which
Speaker 2: is it's not so much the high pressure that's good
Speaker 2: for you. It's the coming down that mimics hypoxia, which
Speaker 2: your room will mimic. So the lack of oxygen, or
Speaker 2: the perceived lack of oxygen from a high state is
Speaker 2: the benefit.
Speaker 1: Interesting and that makes a lot of sense.
Speaker 2: You're going to grow new blood vessels, just like viagra
Speaker 2: is going to open things up. We actually had a
Speaker 2: paper two thousand and twelve that found that one of
Speaker 2: the supplements that I take, which everyone knows about, Niman,
Speaker 2: could allow animals to grow new blood vessels by getting
Speaker 2: rid of a protein that accumulates with aging. The bottom
Speaker 2: line is we could mimic this lack of blood vessels
Speaker 2: with this pill, but by exercising. It's the same. What
Speaker 2: I really believe is barely talked about in the medical
Speaker 2: establishment is that a major reason we get sick when
Speaker 2: we get older is lack of blood flow. It's really
Speaker 2: talked about, right, Vascular dementia second largest cause of dementia
Speaker 2: in the world. Blood flow, and it's the easiest to reverse.
Speaker 2: You just do exercise, or take one of these PD
Speaker 2: five inhibitors viagra, or you take my stuff which is
Speaker 2: an a man which we think also works.
Speaker 1: Or all the above, which is probably the best approach.
Speaker 2: I'm two out of three, hopefully soon three out of three.
Speaker 2: But yeah, you know, to protect your brain, which is
Speaker 2: the most important because you don't want to be old
Speaker 2: and demented. That's worse than anything. Keep the blood flowing
Speaker 2: in your body. Remember that blood flowing is important.
Speaker 1: Yes, couldn't agree more. David, You're a treasure. I really
Speaker 1: appreciate you. Thank you for being here.
Speaker 2: You've been so kind, and thank you for getting the
Speaker 2: word out here about the great science that's going on.
Speaker 1: Oh my pleasure, dude. I'm so happy there's someone like
Speaker 1: you out there doing this. I mean it's it's such
Speaker 1: an enormous benefit to people that are listening to the
Speaker 1: world and you're doing you're literally doing God's work, and.
Speaker 2: We'll try to do more.
Speaker 1: Thank you very much. Lifespan dot com is the website.
Speaker 1: Please folks, if you're you're so inclined, go donate. It'll
Speaker 1: really help, will change the world. David. I love you
Speaker 1: to Thank you by everybody.