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Speaker 1: Brian Karen, my good friend. Great to have you here

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on when you know, you know, unleash the podcast, the

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continuation of the show, when you know you know. So Look,

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one of the questions that I asked you at the

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very end is when you have this weaponization fund and

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you have the fighting that's going on as it is

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right now, when you see somebody like Todd Blanche getting

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grilled by Democrats and some established Republicans, folks like the

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John Cornings of the Tillises who are desperate to put

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a fork in this fund, the question I want to

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ask you is there panic really about the one point

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eight billion or you think that they're terrified of the

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precedent that it's going to set. And I said to

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you in the ending of my show, when you know,

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you know, if the deal, this is my thought, If

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the Department of Justice institutionalizes away for citizens to get

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paid when the government overset steps like what they did

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to me, doesn't that strip Congress in the Deep State

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of their ultimate weapon of intimidation? Isn't in the bipartisan

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backlash just just the swamp protecting its own power to

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target people.

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Speaker 2: Well, I've been targeted my whole life. And I don't

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know what to tell you there. I don't know. I

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have to know what the definition of deep state is.

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And I also don't think that their objection to Todd

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Blanche is based entirely on this. I think it's a sidebar.

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If you're asking if the swamp of Washington, d C

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protects itself, of course it does. It always, it always

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christ Yeah, I mean that's not I mean, it bothers

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me that you have a Congress that adjourned at Christmas

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time without taking up affordable health care for the rest

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of us while they get free health care for life.

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It bothers me that members of Congress, members of the

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executive branch, members of the judicial branch all have paid

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maternity leave when millions of Americans can't get it. Those

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things do bother me. The thing that DC does best

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is protect itself, that is Congress, that is the executive branch,

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that is the judicial branch. Do they and if you

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mean by deep state, those actors who are in office, well, yeah,

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they protect themselves. Todd Blanche has far bigger problems than

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this particular fund. This particular fund is a function of

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of d C doing what d C does to your point.

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But Todd Blanche doing what he did. I mean, I

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wouldn't want Todd Blanche as my attorney. I'll just say that,

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if if you were still, if you hadn't been disbarred,

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i'd hire you.

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Speaker 1: But don't you worry, I'll give that license back. You bothers,

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you know. But here's what bothers me a lot too.

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Speaker 2: So how about this.

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Speaker 1: How much money has members of Congress used from some

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slush fund that's out there to payoff NDAs for people

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who file sexual allegations against It's amazing. I was reading

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it back the.

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Speaker 2: Day, bills for that for the love of God, back

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in the seventies, the cover up for the Wilbern Mills

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problem and controversy. And I would say, ask Mitch McConnell,

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but he's you know, he's on his back babbling like

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a drunken cicada right now, so we can't ask him.

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But he he's one of the guys who set up

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a lot of this stuff. He and by the way,

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Tip O'Neill helped set up some of this stuff. By

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the way, every congressman has participated in this right left, middle,

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down the line. They participate in it to protect their

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own ass. Once they get in office, they protect themselves

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versus serving their public. And I wish now we do

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have something called I know everybody wants to have you know,

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uh limits, you know, they want to enableations. Well, we

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have them every two, four and six years. They're called elections.

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Get your ass off the you know, off your seat

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of your pants and go vote. But the problem is

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in this country, we consider fifty sixty percent of voter turnout.

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That's great, and that's not that's the problem. That the

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majority can't rule. The majority doesn't vote. What happens is

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the minority. The minority, the well shelled well a minority

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that will get out and vote left or right. Are

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the ones who determine the elections most of the time,

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the super minorities.

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Speaker 1: And that's the people that I'm trying to reach here.

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And when you know, you know, unleashed, and when you know,

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you know, the show itself, I know a lot of

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merlin going on when you know I am no longer

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you know, you know, I'm no longer using for example,

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the line that Trump used when he called that series

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of that individuals the silent majority, I'm using term right

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well Trump used it. I'm talking about the tired majority.

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We're all tired of the bullshit that's going on every

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single day, them using slush funds, and all of a sudden, here,

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oh my god, this is the biggest problem. And I

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I'm very in tune with this concept because I fought

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all the way to the Supreme Court when I was

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unconstitutionally remanded back to prison because I refused to waive

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my First Amendment constitutional right. You did an incredible bang

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up job when you know, providing with the information for

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the book Revenge.

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Speaker 2: But Brian, I've been that fight twice, Michael, tell my listeners,

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tell my listeners about it. Well, the first time I

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went to the Supreme Court was a fight over a

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unfidential source that I had in a murder case back

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in nineteen eighty nine. So in nineteen ninety I got

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out of I was in jail four times, the last

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time for more than a month as we went to

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the Supreme Court, and the last move by Justice Brennan,

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he put it before the Supreme Court whether or not

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I could get out while I pursued the challenge to

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the Supreme Court, and by a five to four vote,

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they said, screw you. Rot. So That was my first

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problem with the Supreme Court. The second one was when

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we fought Donald Trump for taking away my press pass,

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and that went to all the way. It was before

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the Supreme Court, but the superior court, the appeals court,

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a federal appeals court in DC, had ruled in my favor,

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and then Trump left office. So you know twice I've

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been before them over First Amendment issues, and what I

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find more than anything else is that that the First

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Amendment should protect everyone's free speech. I disagree with what

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you say, I will defend to death your right to

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say it. You can hate me, you cannot act on

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the hate. That's that is a crime. But if I say, hey, Michael,

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you're full of shit, and you can say, Brian, you're

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full of shit, and we can have an argument over that. Now,

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if you tell me to shut up, you're not violating

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my First Amendment rights. You're not the government. But when

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the government sends you back to prison, that is the

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government interfering. That's the First Amendment issue. When the government

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tells me I have to give up my sources. By

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the way, I sat in court the first time I

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had this fight with a confidential source, and and I'm

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the guy that I interviewed in prison is sitting next

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to his ACLU attorney, and there and the ACLU attorney

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and the prosecutor are telling me that doing my job,

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that I interrupted them and prevented them from prosecuting the case,

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and so I had to give up my source. So

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I'm in court and I look to the ACLU attorney.

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I said, I I got my information from your defendant,

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the guy you're defending. I said, don't you have greater

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access to the defendant than I do? Why don't you

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ask him? And he said, you don't get to ask

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the questions in court. And the judge said, normally i'd

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agree with your counselor, but that's a good question. Why

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don't you answer it? So, because, by the way, it

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is a great question.

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Speaker 1: But since we're going to see, since we're talking about

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the First Amendment, I want to just talk a couple

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of days ago, when Trump made a speech to the country,

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made a speech to the country regarding China. He made

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it China, China. He made a speech in regard to

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our election integrity and what these bad actors China, Russia

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and North Korea, Iran, etc.

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Speaker 2: Are doing.

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Speaker 1: First Amendment issue, you had stations like AB, NBC, CBS

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not airing it, would you turn around and say that

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there's a problem with that, that they don't want that

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content out there instead, you know what they were doing.

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They had their people on their talking heads who were

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out there already bashing the president on something that they

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hadn't even heard yet. They didn't even wait for him

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to finish the speech before they were out there attacking

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every single thing that he said. Now, you don't have

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to agree with everything that the guy said, but I

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think we all acknowledge that these foreign actors are interfering

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in our system, and I think what Trump is doing

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is at least exposing what's going on there right now

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in order to come up with some solution in order

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just to make it better.

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Speaker 2: Well, I don't know if I agree with all of that,

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And I'll start with they absolutely have the right to

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error not to air, and if they don't want to air,

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there's other places to hear it. There was other places

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to see it. It certainly wasn't unavailable. It's just they

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are a private enterprise and they get to determine how

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they are best going to make their money to interfere

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them with them and make them air it. That's the problem.

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That would be a problem. That would be overstrepperous, upstrepperous

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use of power by the government to make sure that

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their word gets out. Now, would I have aired it? Well?

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That that's irrelevant.

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Speaker 1: I know it's No, it's not.

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Speaker 2: I would be curious you would say it I did

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get Yeah, of course I probably would. But you know,

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I don't give a shit that. I'm the guy who

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you know, people say, well, he's a bad president. I

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may agree or disagree, but I still want to hear

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what the son of a bitch has to say. So

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I don't have a problem with that. If you do,

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that's fine, it's not a violation. And you can't force

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them to do it. That I don't have a problem with.

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I want to see, and I say, have yet to

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still see anything new that that came out of it.

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And I take and I take great exception to Donald

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Trump calling us. I think last night he he said

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those who've written the worst articles against him are are

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being paid by China. Now, he and I got into

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epic fights and have and I've written well, good, bad,

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and ugly about him. When he's done something well. I've

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written about that. When he's done something bad, I've written

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about that. But certainly no one has challenged him more

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than I have. I you know, I challenged him six

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weeks before he was before the twenty twenty election. Would

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he accept, you know, a peaceful transfer of power? So

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I don't I find that onerous to say that. I

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can state for the record Michael that out of all

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the faults I have, I have never accepted a dime

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from China so well.

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Speaker 1: And I would like to acknowledge that you have many faults.

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Speaker 2: But I had that I do, and so do you,

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my brother.

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Speaker 1: No, No, I think I have one or two less

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than you. But he wasn't counting out.

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Speaker 2: You. Try to spend too much time.

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Speaker 1: With you when we were digging up all that information

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on those foy of files and everything on the weaponization.

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But he's neither. Yeah, that's for sure, Brian. He was not.

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Speaker 2: Talking to you.

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Speaker 1: You were not the journalist, believe it or not that

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you think Trump will wrestling one journalist.

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Speaker 2: He said, those journalists, that's what those journalists, And he

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wasn't referencing you. He doesn't have a problem with people

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criticizing him.

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Speaker 1: And then writing and you tell.

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Speaker 2: Him I would love to sit down and interview him.

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I'd be happy to do it anytime he wants.

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Speaker 1: Well, after I get my first visit over there to

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the White House, I'm going to tell him, Brian karm

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wants to come and sit down to you.

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Speaker 2: And you know what, JA wants to talk to you.

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He wants to comfort and sit down.

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Speaker 1: I have no intention of ever speaking to that loser.

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Speaker 2: He's a stone called loser, right, I tell him nothing trouble.

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I still go back to the day he winked at

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me and I asked him, I said, are we dating?

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Speaker 1: Now?

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Speaker 2: What the hell is he?

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Speaker 1: He would sit down and he would engage you in

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com The difference between you and the people he was

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referencing is that no matter what he does, they will

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never give him credit for anything. You at the very

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beginning turn and said, listen, where I agree with him,

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I will give him praise. Where I disagree, I will.

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Speaker 2: Criticize any politician, but I'll give him credit.

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Speaker 1: Okay, you'll give him credit. And where you disagree, all right,

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you will. You will disagree and criticize. That's fair, that's fair.

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But what about the groups of individuals? Fair asshole. I

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appreciate that. No, just just an asshole. But I can

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live with that. It's amazing how you had, how you

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have such a good son so on, and you know,

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he's such a good kid. I really like he's such

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a nice you know, he and his wife suffice it.

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By the way, congratulations on the birth of the grandchild,

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third one, marvelous.

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Speaker 2: So but I'm the pointing how did I come up

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with grandchildren? That's what I want to know. Go ahead,

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no clue.

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Speaker 1: But the part that I'm trying to bring to the

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table here is criticism is fair. Criticism is good. I myself,

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whether it's on this show or any other show, I

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will never turn around and say I agree with somebody

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one hundred percent of the time. If you do, you

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are in a cult. I am not in a cult.

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I believe where he is doing right, he should be praised,

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it should be acknowledged.

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Speaker 2: And better luck with that if he'd quit telling us

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that we were all fake media and we're the fault

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of and we're the problem his My biggest criticism of

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Donald Trump remains that he is bitter about certain things

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and brittle about criticism, and if he were to just

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you know even and I had I Look, I'm not

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saying this just of him. I've said this of and

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I will state for the record, I've covered every president

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since Ronald Reagan. I've managed to piss off every press

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secretary and every president I've ever covered. So I am

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when you pissed me off.

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Speaker 1: When you pissed me off when I was trying to

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get the information.

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Speaker 2: Sent people off. I don't know that's my superpower.

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Speaker 1: It sure is, you off, But that's you should join

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the Avengers. All of these international all of these all

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of these intergalactic uh you know, nightmares and so on.

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Speaker 2: Heres them off.

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Speaker 1: Pissed me off. I'm going back to my galaxy.

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Speaker 2: That's it. So I can piss them off. But the

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thing with the President of the United States is he

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needs to realize that. And he's not the first president

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I've had this criticism of. I think he's more streperous

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and louder about his criticism of the press than others.

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I've had this problem with other presidents. But this is

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how a democracy. Democracy is supposed to work. It is

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their job to put as I was taught by Sam

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Donaldson the very first there were two lessons I learned

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my first day in the White House. One was from

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Helen Thomas. And the reason why I call my podcast

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just asked the question is because she told me, Brian,

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your job in here is to just ask the question.

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It doesn't matter what the answer is, it doesn't matter

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if they answer it. Your job is to ask that

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question and put that concern on the record. Now, a

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lot of the best press secretaries in the best administrations

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understand that the questions that we bring to them can

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help them, can help better their administration. And it was

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Mike McCurry said, Brian, we changed policies based on some

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of the questions you brought in. The second person I

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met with Sam Donaldson, he said, listen, their job is

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to put their best foot forward. Our job is to

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hold them accountable. I remained dedicated to that. It was

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beIN Bag Dickie and who said, your job when you

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walk in to cover the White House is not to

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appease the president. It's not to appease your editors, it's

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not to appease your friends, it's not to better your career.

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Your responsibility is to the public. And so I've tried

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to remain steady with that. My entire career because I

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believe in those ideals. I know that most Barack Obama

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tried to ban Fox News and guess what, we all

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banned together in the White House at that time and said, no,

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they have a right to be there, and they backed off.

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The problem with this administration is that they don't respect that,

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and that they go after us individually and company wide

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for the very same things that we've done with every

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other president. And as I told his first press secretary,

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she said she accused us of fake news. I said, listen, man,

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they can turn the channel over, they can turn us off,

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they can put down the newspaper, but we've got you

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for forty years, so you need to answer our questions. That,

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to me, is is where I draw the line. I

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don't give a ship what you have to say. Just

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don't tell me I'm full of shit and rude for

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asking you the question, and we'll get along just famously.

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After after work we can go have a drink together

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if you want, you can cuss me out and call me,

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you know, just call me anything. Just don't call me

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late for dinner. But understand that I've got to be

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there to do the job. That's the job, and it's

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the for the betterment of our democracy that we do it. Now,

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do some reporters take it personally? Yes? Are some reporters

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ignorant without a doubt. That's we have problems in the

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in the fourth of State, huge problems, and that's because

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too few companies own the means of publication and they

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don't give a shit about the ideals. They care about

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making money. That's all they care about.

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Speaker 1: And by making money, what they do is they decide

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that they're going to go and to play to only

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one side of them. So every time that's a specific,

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a specific right in there on the bucko chamber and right, people.

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Speaker 2: Don't think critically, and they get and they they hear

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what they want to hear, and it's their reverbs in

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that echo chamber and they go see MSB Right, I

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heard it there, I heard it there, I heard it there,

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So yeah, you're right there, you know.

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Speaker 1: Like for example, just even take like what took place

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in Iran during the bombing where that girls school was hit.

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There's one specific reporter I forget his name. Every single

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time he gets called it's the same thing. Did you

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intentionally strike a building killing over one hundred young females,

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young girls who are attending school, and so there comes

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a point in time where you're not providing a benefit,

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you're not providing a service, you're not providing truth.

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Speaker 2: That's a great issue to break down the problems on

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both sides. First of all, that's this wrong question to ask.

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To ask it is the question to ask that I

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would ask. Is the Pentagon our sources and the Pentagon

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independent h You know, investigators have said, look, this was

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obviously a mistake. It was a targeting error brought about

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by aging, by an aging computer who had old target

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data and that used to be a legitimate target. Why so,

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that's how you should ask that question. We understand has it?

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My question is have you upgraded the software since then

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so that doesn't happen?

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Speaker 1: Well, by the way, that's not necessarily on accurity from then,

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I understand. But that's but the one thing that we

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also know, Brian, is that the IRGC they placed themselves

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in locations in order to prevent these type of attacks

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by putting themselves right next to hospitals, right next to

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schools in case.

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Speaker 2: But I don't think that was the problem in this case.

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This case, it was a legitimate it was just look, man,

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it's a sad situation. Yes, it is bad situation, and

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innocent people died. But here's the thing that no politician

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ever seems to under stand. And this goes back to Nixon.

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What if Nixon had just said, when they invade, you know,

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when they rated water, he goes, yeah, we fucked up.

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That shouldn't have happened. Then then I it was the

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cover up that caused the problem in this case. If

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they had just said, we you know, you might be right,

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it could be a targeting error. And so we're gonna here,

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We're gonna look at it and make sure it doesn't

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happen again.

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Speaker 1: You may be right, you.

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Speaker 2: May be crazy. It just may be a lunatic you're

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looking for. But but that's that's these things get the

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way they get because backs are up on both sides.

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Now I'm not I'm not a diplomat, No.

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Speaker 1: Diplomat.

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Speaker 2: I'm hardly a diplomat.

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Speaker 1: What has two thumbs? What has two thumbs? And is

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not a diplomat? This guy, now.

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Speaker 2: You're what was the Dick van Dyke episode. Never lose

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your sense of humor or your thumbs. So so I

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this is a problem. But The greater problem for the

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public is when politicians won't admit that they could in

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any way be responsible for the bad things. So my

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advice to and this is, look, man, I'm running into

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this because there are younger people working on campaign staffs

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and are running. One of the biggest things that politicians

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do that's wrong, that works against their best interest is

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hiring people on the press staff who have absolutely no experience.

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The senior members of your cabinet, the senior members of

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your and this is for a president, for a VP,

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for a congressman. I could talk to you about a

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center race in Texas where I've seen this. You're some

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of your senior people that help you out should be

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people who have experience in the press, because those people

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can advise you better how to communicate. Communication is usually

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the last thing they worry about. They're worrying about getting

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the money, they're worried about getting someone who can give

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them advice on how to address issues policy, but they

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always leave communication last. And that, to me, Michael, is

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the biggest problem in politics. Get some people who know

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what the fuck they're doing to talk to other people

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so they can sit there and talk to their to

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the president, or to the Vice president, or to the congressman,

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or to the city council and say, look, this is

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how it's going to play. You need to grow up,

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put your big boy pants on and go out there.

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Do you realize how people are sore and aching for

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it on both sides of the aisle for people to

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just say, look, I'm a politician, fucked up. I mean,

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go back to what was an animal house. Hey, you

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fucked up. You trusted us, but maybe we can make

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it better.

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Speaker 1: Brian Karen white House correspond to Bryant. Appreciate you join

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me on when you know you know unleashed. Appreciate my

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I will have you back, especially onto the show. Appreciate

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you again, and I'll see you very very soon.

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Speaker 2: Hey Michael, it's always a pleasure, even if I don't

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even if I disagree with you, you know I love

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you

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Speaker 1: So game men to that vice versa, I'll see you soon, pal,