Speaker 1: Brian Karen, my good friend. Great to have you here
on when you know, you know, unleash the podcast, the
continuation of the show, when you know you know. So Look,
one of the questions that I asked you at the
very end is when you have this weaponization fund and
you have the fighting that's going on as it is
right now, when you see somebody like Todd Blanche getting
grilled by Democrats and some established Republicans, folks like the
John Cornings of the Tillises who are desperate to put
a fork in this fund, the question I want to
ask you is there panic really about the one point
eight billion or you think that they're terrified of the
precedent that it's going to set. And I said to
you in the ending of my show, when you know,
you know, if the deal, this is my thought, If
the Department of Justice institutionalizes away for citizens to get
paid when the government overset steps like what they did
to me, doesn't that strip Congress in the Deep State
of their ultimate weapon of intimidation? Isn't in the bipartisan
backlash just just the swamp protecting its own power to
target people.
Speaker 2: Well, I've been targeted my whole life. And I don't
know what to tell you there. I don't know. I
have to know what the definition of deep state is.
And I also don't think that their objection to Todd
Blanche is based entirely on this. I think it's a sidebar.
If you're asking if the swamp of Washington, d C
protects itself, of course it does. It always, it always
christ Yeah, I mean that's not I mean, it bothers
me that you have a Congress that adjourned at Christmas
time without taking up affordable health care for the rest
of us while they get free health care for life.
It bothers me that members of Congress, members of the
executive branch, members of the judicial branch all have paid
maternity leave when millions of Americans can't get it. Those
things do bother me. The thing that DC does best
is protect itself, that is Congress, that is the executive branch,
that is the judicial branch. Do they and if you
mean by deep state, those actors who are in office, well, yeah,
they protect themselves. Todd Blanche has far bigger problems than
this particular fund. This particular fund is a function of
of d C doing what d C does to your point.
But Todd Blanche doing what he did. I mean, I
wouldn't want Todd Blanche as my attorney. I'll just say that,
if if you were still, if you hadn't been disbarred,
i'd hire you.
Speaker 1: But don't you worry, I'll give that license back. You bothers,
you know. But here's what bothers me a lot too.
Speaker 2: So how about this.
Speaker 1: How much money has members of Congress used from some
slush fund that's out there to payoff NDAs for people
who file sexual allegations against It's amazing. I was reading
it back the.
Speaker 2: Day, bills for that for the love of God, back
in the seventies, the cover up for the Wilbern Mills
problem and controversy. And I would say, ask Mitch McConnell,
but he's you know, he's on his back babbling like
a drunken cicada right now, so we can't ask him.
But he he's one of the guys who set up
a lot of this stuff. He and by the way,
Tip O'Neill helped set up some of this stuff. By
the way, every congressman has participated in this right left, middle,
down the line. They participate in it to protect their
own ass. Once they get in office, they protect themselves
versus serving their public. And I wish now we do
have something called I know everybody wants to have you know,
uh limits, you know, they want to enableations. Well, we
have them every two, four and six years. They're called elections.
Get your ass off the you know, off your seat
of your pants and go vote. But the problem is
in this country, we consider fifty sixty percent of voter turnout.
That's great, and that's not that's the problem. That the
majority can't rule. The majority doesn't vote. What happens is
the minority. The minority, the well shelled well a minority
that will get out and vote left or right. Are
the ones who determine the elections most of the time,
the super minorities.
Speaker 1: And that's the people that I'm trying to reach here.
And when you know, you know, unleashed, and when you know,
you know, the show itself, I know a lot of
merlin going on when you know I am no longer
you know, you know, I'm no longer using for example,
the line that Trump used when he called that series
of that individuals the silent majority, I'm using term right
well Trump used it. I'm talking about the tired majority.
We're all tired of the bullshit that's going on every
single day, them using slush funds, and all of a sudden, here,
oh my god, this is the biggest problem. And I
I'm very in tune with this concept because I fought
all the way to the Supreme Court when I was
unconstitutionally remanded back to prison because I refused to waive
my First Amendment constitutional right. You did an incredible bang
up job when you know, providing with the information for
the book Revenge.
Speaker 2: But Brian, I've been that fight twice, Michael, tell my listeners,
tell my listeners about it. Well, the first time I
went to the Supreme Court was a fight over a
unfidential source that I had in a murder case back
in nineteen eighty nine. So in nineteen ninety I got
out of I was in jail four times, the last
time for more than a month as we went to
the Supreme Court, and the last move by Justice Brennan,
he put it before the Supreme Court whether or not
I could get out while I pursued the challenge to
the Supreme Court, and by a five to four vote,
they said, screw you. Rot. So That was my first
problem with the Supreme Court. The second one was when
we fought Donald Trump for taking away my press pass,
and that went to all the way. It was before
the Supreme Court, but the superior court, the appeals court,
a federal appeals court in DC, had ruled in my favor,
and then Trump left office. So you know twice I've
been before them over First Amendment issues, and what I
find more than anything else is that that the First
Amendment should protect everyone's free speech. I disagree with what
you say, I will defend to death your right to
say it. You can hate me, you cannot act on
the hate. That's that is a crime. But if I say, hey, Michael,
you're full of shit, and you can say, Brian, you're
full of shit, and we can have an argument over that. Now,
if you tell me to shut up, you're not violating
my First Amendment rights. You're not the government. But when
the government sends you back to prison, that is the
government interfering. That's the First Amendment issue. When the government
tells me I have to give up my sources. By
the way, I sat in court the first time I
had this fight with a confidential source, and and I'm
the guy that I interviewed in prison is sitting next
to his ACLU attorney, and there and the ACLU attorney
and the prosecutor are telling me that doing my job,
that I interrupted them and prevented them from prosecuting the case,
and so I had to give up my source. So
I'm in court and I look to the ACLU attorney.
I said, I I got my information from your defendant,
the guy you're defending. I said, don't you have greater
access to the defendant than I do? Why don't you
ask him? And he said, you don't get to ask
the questions in court. And the judge said, normally i'd
agree with your counselor, but that's a good question. Why
don't you answer it? So, because, by the way, it
is a great question.
Speaker 1: But since we're going to see, since we're talking about
the First Amendment, I want to just talk a couple
of days ago, when Trump made a speech to the country,
made a speech to the country regarding China. He made
it China, China. He made a speech in regard to
our election integrity and what these bad actors China, Russia
and North Korea, Iran, etc.
Speaker 2: Are doing.
Speaker 1: First Amendment issue, you had stations like AB, NBC, CBS
not airing it, would you turn around and say that
there's a problem with that, that they don't want that
content out there instead, you know what they were doing.
They had their people on their talking heads who were
out there already bashing the president on something that they
hadn't even heard yet. They didn't even wait for him
to finish the speech before they were out there attacking
every single thing that he said. Now, you don't have
to agree with everything that the guy said, but I
think we all acknowledge that these foreign actors are interfering
in our system, and I think what Trump is doing
is at least exposing what's going on there right now
in order to come up with some solution in order
just to make it better.
Speaker 2: Well, I don't know if I agree with all of that,
And I'll start with they absolutely have the right to
error not to air, and if they don't want to air,
there's other places to hear it. There was other places
to see it. It certainly wasn't unavailable. It's just they
are a private enterprise and they get to determine how
they are best going to make their money to interfere
them with them and make them air it. That's the problem.
That would be a problem. That would be overstrepperous, upstrepperous
use of power by the government to make sure that
their word gets out. Now, would I have aired it? Well?
That that's irrelevant.
Speaker 1: I know it's No, it's not.
Speaker 2: I would be curious you would say it I did
get Yeah, of course I probably would. But you know,
I don't give a shit that. I'm the guy who
you know, people say, well, he's a bad president. I
may agree or disagree, but I still want to hear
what the son of a bitch has to say. So
I don't have a problem with that. If you do,
that's fine, it's not a violation. And you can't force
them to do it. That I don't have a problem with.
I want to see, and I say, have yet to
still see anything new that that came out of it.
And I take and I take great exception to Donald
Trump calling us. I think last night he he said
those who've written the worst articles against him are are
being paid by China. Now, he and I got into
epic fights and have and I've written well, good, bad,
and ugly about him. When he's done something well. I've
written about that. When he's done something bad, I've written
about that. But certainly no one has challenged him more
than I have. I you know, I challenged him six
weeks before he was before the twenty twenty election. Would
he accept, you know, a peaceful transfer of power? So
I don't I find that onerous to say that. I
can state for the record Michael that out of all
the faults I have, I have never accepted a dime
from China so well.
Speaker 1: And I would like to acknowledge that you have many faults.
Speaker 2: But I had that I do, and so do you,
my brother.
Speaker 1: No, No, I think I have one or two less
than you. But he wasn't counting out.
Speaker 2: You. Try to spend too much time.
Speaker 1: With you when we were digging up all that information
on those foy of files and everything on the weaponization.
But he's neither. Yeah, that's for sure, Brian. He was not.
Speaker 2: Talking to you.
Speaker 1: You were not the journalist, believe it or not that
you think Trump will wrestling one journalist.
Speaker 2: He said, those journalists, that's what those journalists, And he
wasn't referencing you. He doesn't have a problem with people
criticizing him.
Speaker 1: And then writing and you tell.
Speaker 2: Him I would love to sit down and interview him.
I'd be happy to do it anytime he wants.
Speaker 1: Well, after I get my first visit over there to
the White House, I'm going to tell him, Brian karm
wants to come and sit down to you.
Speaker 2: And you know what, JA wants to talk to you.
He wants to comfort and sit down.
Speaker 1: I have no intention of ever speaking to that loser.
Speaker 2: He's a stone called loser, right, I tell him nothing trouble.
I still go back to the day he winked at
me and I asked him, I said, are we dating?
Speaker 1: Now?
Speaker 2: What the hell is he?
Speaker 1: He would sit down and he would engage you in
com The difference between you and the people he was
referencing is that no matter what he does, they will
never give him credit for anything. You at the very
beginning turn and said, listen, where I agree with him,
I will give him praise. Where I disagree, I will.
Speaker 2: Criticize any politician, but I'll give him credit.
Speaker 1: Okay, you'll give him credit. And where you disagree, all right,
you will. You will disagree and criticize. That's fair, that's fair.
But what about the groups of individuals? Fair asshole. I
appreciate that. No, just just an asshole. But I can
live with that. It's amazing how you had, how you
have such a good son so on, and you know,
he's such a good kid. I really like he's such
a nice you know, he and his wife suffice it.
By the way, congratulations on the birth of the grandchild,
third one, marvelous.
Speaker 2: So but I'm the pointing how did I come up
with grandchildren? That's what I want to know. Go ahead,
no clue.
Speaker 1: But the part that I'm trying to bring to the
table here is criticism is fair. Criticism is good. I myself,
whether it's on this show or any other show, I
will never turn around and say I agree with somebody
one hundred percent of the time. If you do, you
are in a cult. I am not in a cult.
I believe where he is doing right, he should be praised,
it should be acknowledged.
Speaker 2: And better luck with that if he'd quit telling us
that we were all fake media and we're the fault
of and we're the problem his My biggest criticism of
Donald Trump remains that he is bitter about certain things
and brittle about criticism, and if he were to just
you know even and I had I Look, I'm not
saying this just of him. I've said this of and
I will state for the record, I've covered every president
since Ronald Reagan. I've managed to piss off every press
secretary and every president I've ever covered. So I am
when you pissed me off.
Speaker 1: When you pissed me off when I was trying to
get the information.
Speaker 2: Sent people off. I don't know that's my superpower.
Speaker 1: It sure is, you off, But that's you should join
the Avengers. All of these international all of these all
of these intergalactic uh you know, nightmares and so on.
Speaker 2: Heres them off.
Speaker 1: Pissed me off. I'm going back to my galaxy.
Speaker 2: That's it. So I can piss them off. But the
thing with the President of the United States is he
needs to realize that. And he's not the first president
I've had this criticism of. I think he's more streperous
and louder about his criticism of the press than others.
I've had this problem with other presidents. But this is
how a democracy. Democracy is supposed to work. It is
their job to put as I was taught by Sam
Donaldson the very first there were two lessons I learned
my first day in the White House. One was from
Helen Thomas. And the reason why I call my podcast
just asked the question is because she told me, Brian,
your job in here is to just ask the question.
It doesn't matter what the answer is, it doesn't matter
if they answer it. Your job is to ask that
question and put that concern on the record. Now, a
lot of the best press secretaries in the best administrations
understand that the questions that we bring to them can
help them, can help better their administration. And it was
Mike McCurry said, Brian, we changed policies based on some
of the questions you brought in. The second person I
met with Sam Donaldson, he said, listen, their job is
to put their best foot forward. Our job is to
hold them accountable. I remained dedicated to that. It was
beIN Bag Dickie and who said, your job when you
walk in to cover the White House is not to
appease the president. It's not to appease your editors, it's
not to appease your friends, it's not to better your career.
Your responsibility is to the public. And so I've tried
to remain steady with that. My entire career because I
believe in those ideals. I know that most Barack Obama
tried to ban Fox News and guess what, we all
banned together in the White House at that time and said, no,
they have a right to be there, and they backed off.
The problem with this administration is that they don't respect that,
and that they go after us individually and company wide
for the very same things that we've done with every
other president. And as I told his first press secretary,
she said she accused us of fake news. I said, listen, man,
they can turn the channel over, they can turn us off,
they can put down the newspaper, but we've got you
for forty years, so you need to answer our questions. That,
to me, is is where I draw the line. I
don't give a ship what you have to say. Just
don't tell me I'm full of shit and rude for
asking you the question, and we'll get along just famously.
After after work we can go have a drink together
if you want, you can cuss me out and call me,
you know, just call me anything. Just don't call me
late for dinner. But understand that I've got to be
there to do the job. That's the job, and it's
the for the betterment of our democracy that we do it. Now,
do some reporters take it personally? Yes? Are some reporters
ignorant without a doubt. That's we have problems in the
in the fourth of State, huge problems, and that's because
too few companies own the means of publication and they
don't give a shit about the ideals. They care about
making money. That's all they care about.
Speaker 1: And by making money, what they do is they decide
that they're going to go and to play to only
one side of them. So every time that's a specific,
a specific right in there on the bucko chamber and right, people.
Speaker 2: Don't think critically, and they get and they they hear
what they want to hear, and it's their reverbs in
that echo chamber and they go see MSB Right, I
heard it there, I heard it there, I heard it there,
So yeah, you're right there, you know.
Speaker 1: Like for example, just even take like what took place
in Iran during the bombing where that girls school was hit.
There's one specific reporter I forget his name. Every single
time he gets called it's the same thing. Did you
intentionally strike a building killing over one hundred young females,
young girls who are attending school, and so there comes
a point in time where you're not providing a benefit,
you're not providing a service, you're not providing truth.
Speaker 2: That's a great issue to break down the problems on
both sides. First of all, that's this wrong question to ask.
To ask it is the question to ask that I
would ask. Is the Pentagon our sources and the Pentagon
independent h You know, investigators have said, look, this was
obviously a mistake. It was a targeting error brought about
by aging, by an aging computer who had old target
data and that used to be a legitimate target. Why so,
that's how you should ask that question. We understand has it?
My question is have you upgraded the software since then
so that doesn't happen?
Speaker 1: Well, by the way, that's not necessarily on accurity from then,
I understand. But that's but the one thing that we
also know, Brian, is that the IRGC they placed themselves
in locations in order to prevent these type of attacks
by putting themselves right next to hospitals, right next to
schools in case.
Speaker 2: But I don't think that was the problem in this case.
This case, it was a legitimate it was just look, man,
it's a sad situation. Yes, it is bad situation, and
innocent people died. But here's the thing that no politician
ever seems to under stand. And this goes back to Nixon.
What if Nixon had just said, when they invade, you know,
when they rated water, he goes, yeah, we fucked up.
That shouldn't have happened. Then then I it was the
cover up that caused the problem in this case. If
they had just said, we you know, you might be right,
it could be a targeting error. And so we're gonna here,
We're gonna look at it and make sure it doesn't
happen again.
Speaker 1: You may be right, you.
Speaker 2: May be crazy. It just may be a lunatic you're
looking for. But but that's that's these things get the
way they get because backs are up on both sides.
Now I'm not I'm not a diplomat, No.
Speaker 1: Diplomat.
Speaker 2: I'm hardly a diplomat.
Speaker 1: What has two thumbs? What has two thumbs? And is
not a diplomat? This guy, now.
Speaker 2: You're what was the Dick van Dyke episode. Never lose
your sense of humor or your thumbs. So so I
this is a problem. But The greater problem for the
public is when politicians won't admit that they could in
any way be responsible for the bad things. So my
advice to and this is, look, man, I'm running into
this because there are younger people working on campaign staffs
and are running. One of the biggest things that politicians
do that's wrong, that works against their best interest is
hiring people on the press staff who have absolutely no experience.
The senior members of your cabinet, the senior members of
your and this is for a president, for a VP,
for a congressman. I could talk to you about a
center race in Texas where I've seen this. You're some
of your senior people that help you out should be
people who have experience in the press, because those people
can advise you better how to communicate. Communication is usually
the last thing they worry about. They're worrying about getting
the money, they're worried about getting someone who can give
them advice on how to address issues policy, but they
always leave communication last. And that, to me, Michael, is
the biggest problem in politics. Get some people who know
what the fuck they're doing to talk to other people
so they can sit there and talk to their to
the president, or to the Vice president, or to the congressman,
or to the city council and say, look, this is
how it's going to play. You need to grow up,
put your big boy pants on and go out there.
Do you realize how people are sore and aching for
it on both sides of the aisle for people to
just say, look, I'm a politician, fucked up. I mean,
go back to what was an animal house. Hey, you
fucked up. You trusted us, but maybe we can make
it better.
Speaker 1: Brian Karen white House correspond to Bryant. Appreciate you join
me on when you know you know unleashed. Appreciate my
I will have you back, especially onto the show. Appreciate
you again, and I'll see you very very soon.
Speaker 2: Hey Michael, it's always a pleasure, even if I don't
even if I disagree with you, you know I love
you
Speaker 1: So game men to that vice versa, I'll see you soon, pal,