WEBVTT 1 00:00:07.639 --> 00:00:11.039 You are now listening to True Murder, the most shocking 2 00:00:11.160 --> 00:00:14.160 killers in true crime history and the authors that have 3 00:00:14.240 --> 00:00:21.519 written about them. Gaesy, Bundy, Dahmer, The Nightstalker VTK Every 4 00:00:21.559 --> 00:00:25.280 week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and 5 00:00:25.359 --> 00:00:29.879 infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with your host, 6 00:00:30.280 --> 00:00:34.560 journalist and author Dan Zufanski. 7 00:00:39.479 --> 00:00:40.039 Good Evening. 8 00:00:41.039 --> 00:00:44.359 Mike Gaddo was an up and coming young lawmaker when 9 00:00:44.399 --> 00:00:48.920 his father was brutally murdered. The act sucked them into 10 00:00:48.960 --> 00:00:56.759 the world of noir, wild theories, intransigent detectives, and unimaginable violence. 11 00:00:57.920 --> 00:01:01.840 This true crime story reads like a thriller, offering insight 12 00:01:01.960 --> 00:01:04.959 into the world of politics and the cd underbelly of 13 00:01:05.000 --> 00:01:11.239 crime investigation in modern Los Angeles. Gaddo shares his experiences 14 00:01:11.480 --> 00:01:15.799 with incredible candor and raw emotion, detailing every clue and 15 00:01:15.920 --> 00:01:19.120 how he came to learn every tragic detail of his 16 00:01:19.159 --> 00:01:24.480 father's murder. With the case still unsolved, see if you 17 00:01:24.519 --> 00:01:29.439 can piece together the clues to solve this mystery. The 18 00:01:29.480 --> 00:01:33.280 book they are featuring this evening is Noir by Necessity. 19 00:01:33.959 --> 00:01:38.480 How my father's unsolved murder took me to dark places 20 00:01:39.120 --> 00:01:42.760 with my special guests attorney and former member of the 21 00:01:42.799 --> 00:01:49.280 California State Assembly representing Los Angeles, and author Mike Gaddo. 22 00:01:50.599 --> 00:01:52.760 Welcome to the program, and thank you very much for 23 00:01:52.840 --> 00:01:56.719 this interview. Mike Gaddo. It is wonderfully with you, Dan, 24 00:01:57.400 --> 00:02:02.359 Thank you so much. Right in a world where much 25 00:02:02.519 --> 00:02:05.640 attention is paid to whether criminals are getting the right treatment, 26 00:02:06.000 --> 00:02:10.240 victims' families continue to be overlooked. Stories focus on the 27 00:02:10.280 --> 00:02:14.599 guilts of the possible perpetrator or the finite details of 28 00:02:14.680 --> 00:02:18.479 the moment a murder happened, and ignore the fallout born 29 00:02:18.599 --> 00:02:23.000 by the departed, living loved ones instead. How is this 30 00:02:23.039 --> 00:02:25.639 book laid out for readers and what do you hope 31 00:02:25.719 --> 00:02:27.960 readers will gain as a result. 32 00:02:28.159 --> 00:02:32.400 Great question. So I laid out my book in such 33 00:02:32.400 --> 00:02:36.840 a way that the reader learns the well the facts 34 00:02:36.879 --> 00:02:40.719 of the crime, plus the clues that came in afterwards, 35 00:02:41.199 --> 00:02:44.719 plus the false starts and the heartache and the false 36 00:02:44.800 --> 00:02:48.159 leads and the false hope. I laid it out chronologically 37 00:02:48.240 --> 00:02:50.439 so that the reader could be taken on the journey 38 00:02:50.639 --> 00:02:52.680 that I went through and that my family went through 39 00:02:52.719 --> 00:02:55.439 and my father was killed. I try to make it 40 00:02:55.479 --> 00:02:59.080 so that and that goes to the purpose of the book. 41 00:02:59.479 --> 00:03:02.360 The purpose of this book was to give people a 42 00:03:02.360 --> 00:03:05.599 little window into what it's like to be the family 43 00:03:05.639 --> 00:03:08.680 of a murder victim. You know, someone said to me 44 00:03:08.800 --> 00:03:12.280 very early on that you join lots of groups in life. 45 00:03:12.400 --> 00:03:15.599 You know, some people join a church or synagogue, people 46 00:03:15.680 --> 00:03:18.360 join a car club, people join a knitting club, or 47 00:03:18.400 --> 00:03:22.520 a poker a poker game. But this fraternity or sorority 48 00:03:22.599 --> 00:03:25.000 of families of murder victims is a group that nobody 49 00:03:25.039 --> 00:03:28.400 ever chooses to join. And when you're thrust into it, 50 00:03:28.479 --> 00:03:32.879 you know you you definitely understand what other families go through. 51 00:03:33.599 --> 00:03:35.800 But the purpose of my book was to give a 52 00:03:35.800 --> 00:03:40.080 little window into what that's like so that people could 53 00:03:40.159 --> 00:03:44.400 make more informed decisions when they vote, when they analyze 54 00:03:44.439 --> 00:03:48.400 crimes themselves, and as they encounter people who have gone 55 00:03:48.439 --> 00:03:49.680 through this in their lives. 56 00:03:50.639 --> 00:03:55.120 Tell us about your professional life in politics and your 57 00:03:55.159 --> 00:03:58.560 personal life. In a year you call a very good 58 00:03:58.639 --> 00:04:00.080 year two thousand and two. 59 00:04:00.080 --> 00:04:04.280 Well so in twenty twelve, I remember being the happiest 60 00:04:04.280 --> 00:04:07.840 that I have ever been in my life. I had 61 00:04:07.960 --> 00:04:11.439 just gotten through some very very tough elections to the 62 00:04:11.479 --> 00:04:14.400 California Legislature, but they were behind me. I was at 63 00:04:14.400 --> 00:04:17.240 that point an incumbent. I was confident in my role. 64 00:04:17.360 --> 00:04:19.040 I think the voters had shown that they wanted to 65 00:04:19.079 --> 00:04:21.639 re elect me several times. And on top of that, 66 00:04:21.759 --> 00:04:25.439 I had the biggest joys that anybody could ask for, 67 00:04:25.439 --> 00:04:27.639 at least from my perspective, and that is, you know, 68 00:04:27.680 --> 00:04:31.000 I was starting to have kids. I had two children 69 00:04:31.040 --> 00:04:34.199 at the time, and my second child, my daughter, Evangelina 70 00:04:34.360 --> 00:04:37.680 or Evie, had just been born in October of twenty twelve, 71 00:04:37.800 --> 00:04:40.240 and I just remember thinking, Gosh, what a lucky guy 72 00:04:40.279 --> 00:04:43.680 I am. I was doing what I love. I was 73 00:04:44.199 --> 00:04:47.120 trying to effectuate good policy for the people of California. 74 00:04:47.759 --> 00:04:51.759 And I had a wonderful family, you know, two terrific 75 00:04:51.839 --> 00:04:54.519 daughters at the time, and you know, I had I 76 00:04:54.600 --> 00:04:57.519 had two you know, elderly parents that I was reasonably 77 00:04:57.560 --> 00:05:00.040 close with, and you know, I mean it was not 78 00:05:00.240 --> 00:05:03.160 easy to be to spend tons of time with him 79 00:05:03.199 --> 00:05:05.879 because of my travel schedule, but I felt very very 80 00:05:05.879 --> 00:05:08.600 close with them as well. And I just remember thinking, Gosh, 81 00:05:08.680 --> 00:05:09.759 what a lucky person I am. 82 00:05:11.639 --> 00:05:13.920 Tell us a little bit about your father and your 83 00:05:13.920 --> 00:05:17.439 mother and about the divorce, and but yet you stayed. 84 00:05:17.680 --> 00:05:20.360 They stayed very close, and you stayed very close to 85 00:05:20.399 --> 00:05:21.959 both of them as well. 86 00:05:22.120 --> 00:05:24.399 Yeah, so my mom and my dad after they got divorce. 87 00:05:24.439 --> 00:05:26.399 They got divorced after twenty something years of marriage, and 88 00:05:26.439 --> 00:05:28.480 they ended up living two blocks away from each other 89 00:05:28.480 --> 00:05:31.279 in the same neighborhood. My mom and my dad is 90 00:05:31.319 --> 00:05:35.600 sort of a study of contrast. My father was his 91 00:05:35.680 --> 00:05:39.120 background was art, and he was very much the you know, 92 00:05:39.199 --> 00:05:42.279 his mind worked like an artist. He was not always 93 00:05:42.319 --> 00:05:46.720 that organized or you know, that that rigid in his things. 94 00:05:46.759 --> 00:05:48.279 And then you know, on the other hand, my mom, 95 00:05:48.519 --> 00:05:50.439 she had gone to law school late in life, in 96 00:05:50.480 --> 00:05:52.920 her forties with three kids. She went to night law 97 00:05:52.959 --> 00:05:55.439 school and became a lawyer, and that sort of reflected 98 00:05:55.480 --> 00:05:57.959 her personality as well. She's you know, very organized and 99 00:05:58.079 --> 00:06:00.920 very very much left brain. And so, you know, they 100 00:06:00.920 --> 00:06:02.720 were sort of the yin and the yang that produced me. 101 00:06:02.920 --> 00:06:06.240 I like to joke. Really they both were good parents 102 00:06:06.240 --> 00:06:09.800 in their way, and you know, I would see my 103 00:06:09.959 --> 00:06:13.199 mother at least once a week. You know, we would 104 00:06:13.240 --> 00:06:18.759 typically do do dinner on Saturdays or Sundays, and my 105 00:06:18.839 --> 00:06:21.439 father I would see as often as humanly possible. He 106 00:06:21.480 --> 00:06:25.040 had been an absolute force in my campaign. He had 107 00:06:25.040 --> 00:06:28.439 come into my campaign almost every night didn't see him 108 00:06:28.439 --> 00:06:30.199 as often as my mom when I was in office, 109 00:06:30.720 --> 00:06:33.279 but that just had to do with different scheduling things. 110 00:06:33.319 --> 00:06:35.160 And you know, he was very busy as in his 111 00:06:35.199 --> 00:06:39.959 retirement he had a burgeoning jewelry business, which you know, 112 00:06:40.040 --> 00:06:42.879 he made craft jewelry that was very artistic. That had 113 00:06:42.879 --> 00:06:45.279 sort of been his lifelong dream and he had put 114 00:06:45.279 --> 00:06:48.199 off that dream to work for us when we were kids, 115 00:06:48.240 --> 00:06:51.279 and so he was you know, he too was enjoying 116 00:06:51.319 --> 00:06:53.879 success at that at that time. It was like kind 117 00:06:53.879 --> 00:06:55.720 of like the starving artists who had put off his 118 00:06:55.800 --> 00:06:58.399 craft but was finally getting renowned. For me, that's just 119 00:06:58.399 --> 00:06:59.839 one of the other, like you know, sort of little 120 00:06:59.839 --> 00:07:02.839 shit aims that you know in him being taken off 121 00:07:02.839 --> 00:07:05.279 this earth too early is that he never got to 122 00:07:05.279 --> 00:07:07.240 see how successful he would be as an artist. 123 00:07:09.240 --> 00:07:12.160 How old was your father at this time and what 124 00:07:12.279 --> 00:07:13.480 was his health. 125 00:07:13.360 --> 00:07:16.920 Like, So my dad was seventy eight and he was 126 00:07:16.920 --> 00:07:19.759 about to turn seventy nine when he got killed. Some 127 00:07:19.800 --> 00:07:22.879 people might say, my gosh, almost eighty. You know, well, 128 00:07:23.240 --> 00:07:25.079 I hope he had a full life. And you know 129 00:07:25.120 --> 00:07:28.040 the implication is that, well, he did leave a full life, 130 00:07:28.079 --> 00:07:31.800 and gee, it's not so tragic. That he got killed 131 00:07:31.800 --> 00:07:34.959 when people say that, But what I tell people is 132 00:07:35.000 --> 00:07:37.920 my dad was just getting started. First of all, he 133 00:07:38.000 --> 00:07:40.959 loved grandkids more than anything else. And I was really, 134 00:07:41.040 --> 00:07:43.879 you know, as I said, I just starting to have kids, really, 135 00:07:44.480 --> 00:07:47.079 and he had interacted a lot with my oldest, but 136 00:07:47.160 --> 00:07:51.839 had just really met my youngest at the time. Secondly, 137 00:07:51.920 --> 00:07:54.319 he was in the peak of health. This was a 138 00:07:54.319 --> 00:07:58.279 man who sprinted upstairs at age seventy eight. He would 139 00:07:58.399 --> 00:08:03.639 you know, deadlift fig big trees and other things, refrigerators 140 00:08:03.639 --> 00:08:05.360 and stuff like that. I mean, he was just a 141 00:08:05.519 --> 00:08:09.439 very very healthy guy. And he also had you know, 142 00:08:09.560 --> 00:08:13.319 very very good genes. He had cousins in Italy who 143 00:08:13.920 --> 00:08:16.360 had been among the oldest living people, and there was 144 00:08:16.399 --> 00:08:18.720 I think a woman from his dad's hometown who lived 145 00:08:18.720 --> 00:08:20.600 till one hundred and eleven, something like that, one hundred 146 00:08:20.600 --> 00:08:24.240 and fourteen, and so, you know, we just thought that 147 00:08:24.319 --> 00:08:26.720 he would be with us for many, many, many more 148 00:08:26.800 --> 00:08:29.959 years to come, and that he would be a presence 149 00:08:30.000 --> 00:08:31.199 in his grandchildren's lives. 150 00:08:33.120 --> 00:08:38.360 In twenty thirteen, you were chairman of the Appropriations Committee, 151 00:08:39.000 --> 00:08:43.440 but you spent week days in your Sacramento home. So 152 00:08:43.480 --> 00:08:46.919 tell us about November eleventh, twenty thirteen and some of 153 00:08:46.919 --> 00:08:50.879 the things that you were doing on that day important things. 154 00:08:51.360 --> 00:08:55.639 Well, so I had a different approach to the capitol. 155 00:08:55.679 --> 00:08:58.559 I'd say maybe twenty or thirty percent of the lawmakers 156 00:08:58.600 --> 00:09:00.559 I know follow my approach, but the Geordy, you know, 157 00:09:00.600 --> 00:09:04.000 seventy percent follow the other approach. A lot of lawmakers 158 00:09:04.039 --> 00:09:07.559 I had seen would they would keep their families back 159 00:09:07.600 --> 00:09:11.399 in the district and then they would go up to 160 00:09:11.639 --> 00:09:15.279 the capital for you know, five days a week, and 161 00:09:15.320 --> 00:09:18.000 they would see their families on the weekend between events 162 00:09:18.039 --> 00:09:21.279 if they were lucky. And so the ratio was, you know, 163 00:09:21.480 --> 00:09:23.799 five out of seven days or four and a half 164 00:09:23.840 --> 00:09:25.960 out of seven days, you would not be with your family. 165 00:09:26.600 --> 00:09:29.759 So I did the opposite. I was grateful that my 166 00:09:29.879 --> 00:09:33.159 wife was a stay at home on and our children 167 00:09:33.159 --> 00:09:35.600 were young, they weren't in school yet, so I had 168 00:09:35.639 --> 00:09:38.799 them come with me essentially to the capital. We maintained 169 00:09:38.799 --> 00:09:42.399 two different residences, and I would fly back home rather 170 00:09:42.440 --> 00:09:45.240 than my family. So so usually you know, five four 171 00:09:45.320 --> 00:09:47.840 or five days a week, I was at our Sacramento place, 172 00:09:48.039 --> 00:09:49.919 and then you know, two three days a week I 173 00:09:49.919 --> 00:09:53.360 would be I would be back in the district, back home. 174 00:09:54.200 --> 00:09:56.480 Now of course, the weekend before my father was killed 175 00:09:56.559 --> 00:09:58.440 was Veterans Day, and that's a day that means a 176 00:09:58.440 --> 00:10:00.960 lot to me, it meant a lot to the five 177 00:10:01.000 --> 00:10:03.679 hundred thousand people in my district. There's a strong tradition 178 00:10:03.759 --> 00:10:06.159 of service in in my old district. And of course 179 00:10:06.200 --> 00:10:08.360 my father himself was a veteran, needed four years in 180 00:10:08.360 --> 00:10:11.799 the army, and so you know, Veterans Day, November eleventh, 181 00:10:11.840 --> 00:10:15.440 I gave speeches, showed up at events, met with veterans. 182 00:10:15.720 --> 00:10:17.840 It was a very, very full day. And then I 183 00:10:17.840 --> 00:10:20.600 flew back to Sacramento, I want to say the afternoon 184 00:10:20.679 --> 00:10:24.000 or the evening of the eleventh. My staff had arranged 185 00:10:24.000 --> 00:10:27.919 for me to take new portraits. And that's because my 186 00:10:28.080 --> 00:10:30.879 official portraits. I had won a special election in the 187 00:10:30.879 --> 00:10:33.919 middle of April, and so my official portraits really weren't official. 188 00:10:34.000 --> 00:10:37.039 They were like snap shops, snapshots of a very tired 189 00:10:37.120 --> 00:10:40.000 guy who just won an election. And so I was 190 00:10:40.039 --> 00:10:42.039 finally going to pose for my official portraits, and I 191 00:10:42.039 --> 00:10:44.320 took them on the portico of the Capitol, I want 192 00:10:44.320 --> 00:10:47.120 to say, on the twelfth orth or thirteenth, and I 193 00:10:47.159 --> 00:10:50.320 had some other meetings that day in the Capitol. It 194 00:10:50.399 --> 00:10:53.879 was just a very very normal week for November for us, 195 00:10:53.960 --> 00:10:57.200 because November is typically one of the rare quiet seasons 196 00:10:57.600 --> 00:10:58.879 for the life of a lawmaker. 197 00:11:00.480 --> 00:11:04.360 You write that that November thirteenth, you had the portrait, 198 00:11:04.440 --> 00:11:06.440 but you worked in the morning and went home in 199 00:11:06.480 --> 00:11:09.519 the afternoon, and on your way home, you called your 200 00:11:09.600 --> 00:11:11.799 dad to see if he had a recommendation for a 201 00:11:11.840 --> 00:11:16.320 new plumber for your place in Los Angeles. He didn't answer, 202 00:11:16.960 --> 00:11:20.399 and you left the message. That night, your cell phone rang. 203 00:11:20.720 --> 00:11:24.279 It was your younger sister Mary Anne. Tell us about 204 00:11:24.279 --> 00:11:24.840 that phone call. 205 00:11:25.879 --> 00:11:28.919 Yeah, so we were getting ready to put our daughters 206 00:11:28.960 --> 00:11:34.600 to bed when my phone rang. And I, you know, 207 00:11:34.639 --> 00:11:37.279 my sister didn't typically call me, you know, at like 208 00:11:37.360 --> 00:11:40.480 seven forty five on a weeknight. She knew that was 209 00:11:40.480 --> 00:11:42.120 time when we were putting the kids to bed, and 210 00:11:42.799 --> 00:11:44.720 you know, and I also didn't usually pick up my phone, 211 00:11:45.120 --> 00:11:47.320 you know, I usually screamed my calls. But something told 212 00:11:47.320 --> 00:11:48.759 me to pick it up, and I picked it up, 213 00:11:48.799 --> 00:11:52.879 and my sister was, you know, she was frantic, and 214 00:11:53.039 --> 00:11:55.240 you know, I don't know if you know, hysterical, I 215 00:11:55.240 --> 00:11:58.120 guess would be the right word. And she was talking 216 00:11:58.240 --> 00:12:00.120 very fast, and she said, you know, Michael Mike. Well, 217 00:12:00.159 --> 00:12:02.759 I went over to dad's house, you know, and buh 218 00:12:02.840 --> 00:12:04.600 and and I saw him and I think he's dead. 219 00:12:05.279 --> 00:12:07.360 And you know, my first reaction was no, you know, 220 00:12:07.440 --> 00:12:09.840 get out. You know, my dad had no heart problems. 221 00:12:10.000 --> 00:12:12.879 We talked about his health and I was kind of 222 00:12:12.960 --> 00:12:15.399 like yelling at her, like he's not dead, like you know, 223 00:12:15.440 --> 00:12:18.200 call paramedic. And I just remember her saying like, Michael, Michael, 224 00:12:18.200 --> 00:12:22.240 I touched him and he's cold. And I was like, well, okay, 225 00:12:22.360 --> 00:12:24.399 you know you still got a call paramedic, call the police, 226 00:12:24.440 --> 00:12:29.120 you know, just whatever. And I called the police myself. 227 00:12:29.159 --> 00:12:31.399 I called some friends of mine. I don't I don't 228 00:12:31.399 --> 00:12:33.360 remember who told me, but you know, sometime in the 229 00:12:33.360 --> 00:12:35.240 next hour or so, it was either the police or 230 00:12:35.279 --> 00:12:36.879 the paramedics got in the line and told me that 231 00:12:36.919 --> 00:12:40.200 my father was dead. And they said that the likely 232 00:12:40.240 --> 00:12:44.759 cause of death was a gunshot wound. And you know, 233 00:12:44.919 --> 00:12:46.759 your your first reaction is disbelief. 234 00:12:48.840 --> 00:12:52.399 You say that when you arrived home, the TV news 235 00:12:52.480 --> 00:12:56.600 vans were pulled up to your home. What did you 236 00:12:56.679 --> 00:12:58.039 and your wife do as a result. 237 00:12:59.480 --> 00:13:02.960 Well, so we the situation was very much chaotic that night. 238 00:13:03.720 --> 00:13:06.519 We uh, you know, it's already eight or nine o'clock, 239 00:13:06.559 --> 00:13:08.480 and you know, we put the kids to bed, and 240 00:13:08.519 --> 00:13:11.080 then I set up sort of a situation room, and 241 00:13:11.120 --> 00:13:13.399 we realized what we had missed the last flight back 242 00:13:13.440 --> 00:13:17.320 to LA that night. So the next day we had 243 00:13:17.320 --> 00:13:21.039 to drive back to LA and that's also easier with 244 00:13:21.039 --> 00:13:23.720 with young kids. It's many ways easier than flying because 245 00:13:23.720 --> 00:13:26.399 you can stop and like that. So we got in 246 00:13:26.440 --> 00:13:28.039 the car the next day and we drove back to 247 00:13:28.200 --> 00:13:32.519 Los Angeles and the TV vans had been on site 248 00:13:32.639 --> 00:13:34.799 for for you know, for I think twenty four hours 249 00:13:34.799 --> 00:13:38.080 at that point or something close to it. And you know, 250 00:13:38.279 --> 00:13:40.480 we we couldn't even really get into my home because 251 00:13:40.519 --> 00:13:44.080 that there was such a phalanx of TV vans around 252 00:13:44.080 --> 00:13:47.080 my own home. So we met my sisters at a hotel. 253 00:13:47.559 --> 00:13:50.000 But at some point, you know, we went over to 254 00:13:50.360 --> 00:13:53.080 the to my father's house, to my child at home 255 00:13:53.360 --> 00:13:56.000 to help the police, you know, analyze the crime scene. 256 00:13:56.000 --> 00:13:57.639 They had been there for for you know, for twenty 257 00:13:57.679 --> 00:13:59.759 four hours. They had gotten everything they wanted but they 258 00:13:59.759 --> 00:14:01.639 wanted asked his questions about if anything was out of 259 00:14:01.639 --> 00:14:04.519 place and such, and of course when I pulled up, 260 00:14:04.639 --> 00:14:09.399 the media mobbed me, and you know, it was not easy. 261 00:14:09.759 --> 00:14:13.960 It's hard as a public figure when there is something 262 00:14:13.960 --> 00:14:17.639 that affects you personally, it's hard to keep your composure. 263 00:14:17.720 --> 00:14:20.240 And those interviews at night were very hard for me 264 00:14:20.279 --> 00:14:26.039 to keep composure. You have three sisters and just two 265 00:14:26.480 --> 00:14:28.399 just too young. 266 00:14:28.679 --> 00:14:32.960 Yeah, yeah, what happened next regarding your sisters and some 267 00:14:33.080 --> 00:14:35.679 information imparted. 268 00:14:35.960 --> 00:14:39.120 Well, my sisters had been they had done a real 269 00:14:39.200 --> 00:14:42.320 estate investment together, modest real state investment a few years back. 270 00:14:42.799 --> 00:14:44.960 I'm not I remember all the details at Frankly, I 271 00:14:45.000 --> 00:14:47.039 tried to stay out of all those details, but they 272 00:14:47.039 --> 00:14:50.320 had some kind of squabble about how the thing was managed, 273 00:14:50.360 --> 00:14:53.480 and so things were already tense with them with respect 274 00:14:53.519 --> 00:14:57.120 to money. But we found out, you know, shortly after 275 00:14:57.759 --> 00:15:01.159 my dad's death that his person and all, you know 276 00:15:01.200 --> 00:15:03.519 what I call the civil or the civil part of 277 00:15:03.559 --> 00:15:05.559 his case, not the criminal case, but the civil part 278 00:15:05.559 --> 00:15:09.000 of his case was a mess. He had not updated 279 00:15:09.039 --> 00:15:12.399 his estate plan for I want to say fourteen years 280 00:15:12.480 --> 00:15:15.320 or something crazy like that. Maybe it was less than that, 281 00:15:15.320 --> 00:15:18.000 but it was in any event, his personal affairs were 282 00:15:18.000 --> 00:15:23.320 not in order, and his estate was very unclear. And 283 00:15:23.639 --> 00:15:28.039 lack of clarity and estate planning often causes disputes between 284 00:15:28.080 --> 00:15:31.200 the family, and unfortunately mine was no different. There were 285 00:15:31.440 --> 00:15:36.240 immediately some disputes and some bad feelings. That was something 286 00:15:36.240 --> 00:15:39.360 that I you know, that's a secondary or tertiary consideration 287 00:15:39.480 --> 00:15:42.799 in my dad's case. But I think the way that 288 00:15:42.840 --> 00:15:44.919 I sum it up is that, you know, you're trying 289 00:15:44.919 --> 00:15:48.399 to manage his criminal case and the investigation and try 290 00:15:48.440 --> 00:15:50.399 to find justice and try to find closure, and then 291 00:15:50.440 --> 00:15:55.000 you have this other piece, which is the fact that 292 00:15:55.080 --> 00:15:56.720 his affairs weren't in order and there was a lot 293 00:15:56.759 --> 00:15:58.080 of acrimony between the family. 294 00:16:00.159 --> 00:16:04.879 Right that both separately the sister said that very disparaging 295 00:16:05.039 --> 00:16:09.559 things about each other's boyfriends, things that were troubling in 296 00:16:09.600 --> 00:16:11.600 their implications. Can you explain that? 297 00:16:12.919 --> 00:16:16.440 Yeah, I mean they I think it's fair to say 298 00:16:16.480 --> 00:16:18.759 that my sisters at the time did not approve of 299 00:16:18.799 --> 00:16:21.879 each other's boyfriends, or that the boyfriends didn't get along, 300 00:16:23.480 --> 00:16:29.000 you know. So, yeah, they both were not pleasant to 301 00:16:30.240 --> 00:16:32.200 talk to you when it came to some of that stuff. 302 00:16:33.279 --> 00:16:35.519 You know, it's just a shame because you know, I'm 303 00:16:35.559 --> 00:16:39.080 aware that lots of family squabble after a loved one dies, 304 00:16:39.799 --> 00:16:42.600 but again, in this case, you know, I think it 305 00:16:42.639 --> 00:16:45.840 detracts and distracts from the main goal here, which is, 306 00:16:47.320 --> 00:16:50.720 you know, reassuring the living and working for justice in 307 00:16:50.840 --> 00:16:51.720 the criminal case. 308 00:16:54.200 --> 00:16:56.639 You didn't want to talk to the media, but you 309 00:16:57.039 --> 00:17:01.159 finally were cajoled into making some sort of stuff. Tell 310 00:17:01.240 --> 00:17:03.279 us about how hard that statement was. 311 00:17:04.759 --> 00:17:08.480 It was not easy making those statements as I As 312 00:17:08.519 --> 00:17:12.359 I mentioned, I did realize very early on, though, that 313 00:17:12.400 --> 00:17:15.759 the media has such a tremendous role when it comes 314 00:17:15.799 --> 00:17:17.839 to families of murder victims. And it's a role that 315 00:17:17.880 --> 00:17:21.599 I appreciate very, very greatly, and frankly, it's one of 316 00:17:21.640 --> 00:17:24.480 the reasons why I'm talking with you today. Dan. I 317 00:17:24.519 --> 00:17:29.920 am so grateful for anybody, whether they are you know, national, 318 00:17:30.160 --> 00:17:32.680 My father's case has been featured on Dateline, NBC, right, 319 00:17:32.720 --> 00:17:36.039 I'm grateful to them. I'm grateful for the local television stations, 320 00:17:36.079 --> 00:17:39.440 the Los Angeles Times, you know, the state wide newspapers. 321 00:17:39.720 --> 00:17:42.880 I'm grateful for all the true crime podcasts and everybody 322 00:17:42.880 --> 00:17:45.960 who keeps the stories out there. And so I realized 323 00:17:46.039 --> 00:17:48.720 very early on that, you know, my family was going 324 00:17:48.799 --> 00:17:52.359 to need the media. They were a valued partner because 325 00:17:52.400 --> 00:17:55.200 we had to disseminate information, whether it was a sketch 326 00:17:55.240 --> 00:17:57.160 of somebody who might have been a suspect, or whether 327 00:17:57.240 --> 00:18:00.640 it was you know, a call for you know, awareness 328 00:18:00.720 --> 00:18:03.960 that the killers still out there, or you know, just 329 00:18:04.240 --> 00:18:06.160 anything like that. The media was going to be a 330 00:18:06.240 --> 00:18:10.160 valued partner. So I was lucky to have good relationships. 331 00:18:10.200 --> 00:18:12.240 There are ones that I still enjoy, and a lot 332 00:18:12.240 --> 00:18:13.680 of people who I think cared a lot about my 333 00:18:13.759 --> 00:18:14.839 dad's case in my family. 334 00:18:16.200 --> 00:18:18.640 Let's use this as an opportunity to stop to hear 335 00:18:18.720 --> 00:18:23.759 these messages. Now, this is a dramatic and vivid scene. 336 00:18:23.880 --> 00:18:28.440 You had to tour the crime scene, and then you 337 00:18:28.480 --> 00:18:32.200 say it was necessary, you had to help the police. 338 00:18:32.519 --> 00:18:35.680 Tell us about that viewing of the crime scene. 339 00:18:36.160 --> 00:18:40.240 Well, first of all, it's very morbid and difficult to 340 00:18:40.319 --> 00:18:42.960 go into your childhood house and realize that you will 341 00:18:42.960 --> 00:18:47.319 never look at it the same because a murder occurred there. Secondly, 342 00:18:47.599 --> 00:18:51.079 it's hard because you know, you're trying to provide insight 343 00:18:51.119 --> 00:18:54.559 and everything like that to the police. The crime scene was, 344 00:18:54.640 --> 00:18:57.960 you know, reflected that my father was a collector. His 345 00:18:58.039 --> 00:19:00.480 house had a lot of things in it. They weren't 346 00:19:00.480 --> 00:19:02.640 always at organized, But at the same time, there were 347 00:19:02.640 --> 00:19:05.079 things in the crime scene that immediately stuck out to me. 348 00:19:05.440 --> 00:19:07.519 First of all, my father had a three story house 349 00:19:07.720 --> 00:19:11.839 filled with valuables. If anybody knew just a little something 350 00:19:11.880 --> 00:19:15.799 about art or you know, anything collectibles or whatever, even tools, 351 00:19:16.039 --> 00:19:19.359 they probably would have taken a lot more in his house. Now, 352 00:19:19.400 --> 00:19:21.720 there's obviously two possibilities for that. They could have been 353 00:19:21.720 --> 00:19:24.839 interrupted and not had you know, time, or they could 354 00:19:24.880 --> 00:19:28.279 have been after something very specific. But the things that 355 00:19:28.359 --> 00:19:30.400 stuck out in my father's bedroom where he was killed. 356 00:19:30.400 --> 00:19:32.680 He was killed in his third floor bedroom on the 357 00:19:33.079 --> 00:19:35.799 top of the house, was that somebody had broken into 358 00:19:35.839 --> 00:19:38.680 a wooden file cabinet. We don't know what was taken 359 00:19:38.759 --> 00:19:42.960 out of there. Somebody had also walked right past one 360 00:19:42.960 --> 00:19:46.240 of his own personal pieces of jewelry, rather large ring 361 00:19:46.359 --> 00:19:49.440 that was sitting on his desk. There were some electronic 362 00:19:49.440 --> 00:19:52.240 items that were not stolen, you know, iPads, things like that. 363 00:19:52.839 --> 00:19:55.119 So it just, you know, there were things of the 364 00:19:55.119 --> 00:19:57.279 crime scene that just didn't seem right to me. 365 00:20:00.000 --> 00:20:05.000 Tell us about the document concerning your father's will and 366 00:20:05.039 --> 00:20:07.200 amendments to that will. 367 00:20:07.400 --> 00:20:10.920 Yeah, so my dad was in the middle of redoing 368 00:20:10.960 --> 00:20:14.839 his estate plan when he got killed. He was updating it. 369 00:20:14.880 --> 00:20:18.279 I think to you know, to focus more on grandchildren 370 00:20:18.359 --> 00:20:20.680 rather than children. A lot of people do that, they 371 00:20:21.079 --> 00:20:25.079 sort of skip the generation that that's older and they 372 00:20:25.200 --> 00:20:27.000 just try to put things in the next generation. And 373 00:20:27.039 --> 00:20:29.319 it's a way to sort of you know anyway anyway. 374 00:20:29.640 --> 00:20:34.240 But he had on his desk where some papers he 375 00:20:34.319 --> 00:20:36.240 had fed he had had fed next to him to 376 00:20:36.319 --> 00:20:40.559 change beneficiary forms for certain accounts. And then also on 377 00:20:40.640 --> 00:20:43.200 his desk and on the floor were some handwritten notes 378 00:20:43.240 --> 00:20:45.079 he had made that he wanted to give to an 379 00:20:45.160 --> 00:20:48.839 estate attorney about how he was going to change his estate. 380 00:20:51.200 --> 00:20:56.119 Right away. What was the thoughts from detectives whether this 381 00:20:56.400 --> 00:21:01.039 crime could have possibly been associated with you and politically 382 00:21:01.319 --> 00:21:03.200 or politically motivated? 383 00:21:04.039 --> 00:21:08.000 Great question. So you know, I initially had concerns that 384 00:21:08.119 --> 00:21:13.640 this crime was targeted at me. You can't get elected 385 00:21:13.640 --> 00:21:15.839 in politics, and you can't rise to the most powerful 386 00:21:15.880 --> 00:21:18.759 levels without making some enemies and breaking some eggs. And 387 00:21:18.960 --> 00:21:22.799 I had a lot of people who, well not a 388 00:21:22.799 --> 00:21:24.240 lot of people, but I had my share of people 389 00:21:24.319 --> 00:21:27.960 who you know, protested me or followed me around. There 390 00:21:28.000 --> 00:21:31.279 was one group of people that was upset at a 391 00:21:31.319 --> 00:21:34.400 position I had taken, who followed me around and held 392 00:21:34.400 --> 00:21:38.640 press conferences where they splashed fake blood for example. You know, 393 00:21:38.759 --> 00:21:41.160 I that just such an extreme gesture at the time. 394 00:21:41.240 --> 00:21:43.680 I mean, people have to remember to twenty thirteen. Politics 395 00:21:43.720 --> 00:21:45.680 was ugly, but it wasn't as ugly as it is now. 396 00:21:46.200 --> 00:21:48.559 And so that was, you know, that was extreme behavior, 397 00:21:48.599 --> 00:21:52.079 and so I had concerns that it might be politically 398 00:21:52.119 --> 00:21:56.440 connected or some kind of message. The police were very 399 00:21:56.680 --> 00:21:59.359 blunt and very you know, brutally direct about that. They 400 00:21:59.400 --> 00:22:02.880 basically said, Mike, your La residence is not too far away. 401 00:22:03.240 --> 00:22:05.839