Speaker 1: Struck Bloundish Authenticity podcast. It's another episode of Boundless Authenticity.
Speaker 1: I have to say a big thank you to all
Speaker 1: our new subscribers and followers, and if you're not following
Speaker 1: the show yet, be sure to hit that followup button
Speaker 1: right now. Boundless Authenticity is available on Spreaker, Spotify, Apple, Rumble,
Speaker 1: and sometimes YouTube when they're not censoring me. I recommend
Speaker 1: using the Spreaker app because it's free. There's no sign
Speaker 1: up needed. All you have to do is just hit
Speaker 1: play and enjoy. By subscribing, you get notified when new
Speaker 1: episodes drop, and you'll help the show reach more listeners,
Speaker 1: which means we can bring on the guests that you
Speaker 1: want to hear more from. So new episodes will drop
Speaker 1: three times a month. That's on the sixth, sixteenth, and
Speaker 1: twenty sixth, so mark your calendars today. My guest is
Speaker 1: John L. Potash. Did I say that right?
Speaker 2: Sure?
Speaker 1: Okay. He's an author and filmmaker known for his work
Speaker 1: on controversial topics, particularly the CIA's alleged involvement with drugs
Speaker 1: and it's marketing of activists and musicians. His books include
Speaker 1: Drugs as Weapons against US and the FBI War on
Speaker 1: TUPAC Recor and Black leaders. He has directed films such
Speaker 1: as Shots Eugenics to Pandemics, and Drugs as Weapons against US,
Speaker 1: the CIA war on musicians and activists. I think I
Speaker 1: got that right. So he's also a counselor. You didn't
Speaker 1: know that. I would never have known that from watching
Speaker 1: the videos either.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think so. Yeah, thanks, And yeah, my newest
Speaker 2: film is CI Drugs or US I think. And if
Speaker 2: you said that, no worries.
Speaker 1: I didn't mention that one, But no worries.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's for another time.
Speaker 1: Yeah, now, you know, so, I mean, we have so
Speaker 1: much stuff that we can talk about. I'd decided to
Speaker 1: focus on drugs as Weapons against US? Sure, sure, but yeah,
Speaker 1: let's talk about that film. You know, you explore the
Speaker 1: idea that the CIA has used drugs to control social movements.
Speaker 1: And what led you to investigate that in the first place.
Speaker 2: Well, I started it was a psychology major in college.
Speaker 2: And after college, one of the few kind of jobs
Speaker 2: I could get with a psychology major was drug and
Speaker 2: alcohol counseling, And first actually worked in a group home
Speaker 2: and then pro probation officer for about six months, and
Speaker 2: then got a job as a drug and alcohol counselor
Speaker 2: and doing addictions counseling in Baltimore City. I went from
Speaker 2: I just kind of saw a lot of corruption and
Speaker 2: saw a lot I actually worked as a bartender in
Speaker 2: Fells Point area of Baltimore, a place where that was
Speaker 2: owned by some people that were both high up in
Speaker 2: the state government and connected to the mafia. And that's
Speaker 2: not unusual. I came to find and so, and then
Speaker 2: worked as a proletarvation officer, and I saw some of
Speaker 2: the same people that were kind of connected to that
Speaker 2: bar ended up having a you know, having an easy
Speaker 2: way in court, and saw the corruption with drugs and
Speaker 2: and the mafia and in the high end, you know,
Speaker 2: getting off in court easy. And uh So when I
Speaker 2: was working as an addictions counselor, I would hear things
Speaker 2: about from my clients who I counseled, saying, oh, you know,
Speaker 2: we we don't have the ships and planes to bring
Speaker 2: the drugs you know, over into the into the city,
Speaker 2: and so obviously the government can only do that. And
Speaker 2: so yeah, sure, the government you know, sells traffic drugs,
Speaker 2: and so I kind of explored those ideas and started
Speaker 2: researching more and after having a drugg and alcohol problem
Speaker 2: myself in high school and kind of weaning off things
Speaker 2: and kind of whige. I I just was able to,
Speaker 2: you know, just see, hey, how how did these different
Speaker 2: things affect my body and brain? And you know, even
Speaker 2: though I had a hard time, I was kind of
Speaker 2: denial of like psychedelics messing me up a bit, even
Speaker 2: though it hurt my grades for a full year. For sure,
Speaker 2: I ended up, you know, kind of denying it. But
Speaker 2: then looking into it more, I found out that it's
Speaker 2: really hard to find studies when it but studies do
Speaker 2: say that LSD can you know, cause some mild cerebral
Speaker 2: damage and a loss of emotional control in a bit
Speaker 2: in a way, and m D M a ecstasy causes
Speaker 2: some even more serious damage with the memory loss and
Speaker 2: stuff and harder, you know, having a hard time with
Speaker 2: your memory. And so when I explored all these things,
Speaker 2: and then I explored the political side of it all,
Speaker 2: particularly around cocaine traffic king and Central America. I was
Speaker 2: protesting the Iraq War and I was sitting in a
Speaker 2: street blocking traffic to you know, about the nineteen ninety
Speaker 2: one invasion of Iraq, and a woman next to me,
Speaker 2: I said, oh, you're a drug counselor. I you know,
Speaker 2: I've got I worked for the Christic Institute, and we're
Speaker 2: suing over the fact that the CIA is helping, you know,
Speaker 2: bring cocaine in front to the United States from Nicaragua
Speaker 2: and the contrast. And so she gave me a whole
Speaker 2: like Senate report on that from Senator John Kerrey, who
Speaker 2: was more honest at that time before you you know,
Speaker 2: ran for president. And so here was evidence that what
Speaker 2: some of my you know, people I counseled were saying
Speaker 2: was right that, yeah, this is nineteen ninety one and
Speaker 2: they were already finding out that the CIA was trafficking cocaine.
Speaker 2: And then Gary Webb kind of blew it all open
Speaker 2: in nineteen ninety five or so or ninety six, you know,
Speaker 2: with his viralting on that. And so I ended up
Speaker 2: going to conferences meeting Ramsey Clark, the former US Attorney
Speaker 2: General under President Johnson, who said, I said, you know,
Speaker 2: what do you think the government's doing with drugs, you know,
Speaker 2: in terms of the population in the inner cities. He says, well,
Speaker 2: I think, you know, the government uses drugs to sedate
Speaker 2: and divide the masses. And then I met a CIA
Speaker 2: agent named John Stockwell who was lecturing in Baltimore, who
Speaker 2: said that he knows, you know, his fellow CI officers
Speaker 2: were trafficking heroin from the Vietnam area where we're at war,
Speaker 2: into the United States. And so, you know, I used
Speaker 2: all that, plus my exploration of LSD through a book
Speaker 2: called Acid Dreams and articles on the CISM C Culture program,
Speaker 2: to show that, yes, here's all the ways that the
Speaker 2: CIA was using drugs against us. And so I thought,
Speaker 2: how did they How did they promote the drugs? Obviously
Speaker 2: through the people we love the most, musicians and so
Speaker 2: you know, sometimes actors and writers, and and then you
Speaker 2: know how much who's got you know, who's got the
Speaker 2: power to even kind of oppose the CIA and their influence.
Speaker 2: And really the people with the most power and influence,
Speaker 2: you know, are the people we look up to the most,
Speaker 2: and that's usually musicians, and especially with their lyrics, you know,
Speaker 2: kind of hitting our hearts in our minds the way
Speaker 2: the CIA wants to. They're the ones that you know,
Speaker 2: have the power to influence people against the CIA. And
Speaker 2: so I found the evidence that, yeah, the CIA was
Speaker 2: targeting musicians not only to promote drugs, but also to
Speaker 2: do away with them when they you know, oppose their
Speaker 2: racist pro war agenda and and found the tactics they
Speaker 2: used against them.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a really deep topic. So when it comes
Speaker 1: to let's say, Mick Jagger or the Grateful Dead or
Speaker 1: Black Panthers or something like that, can you dive a
Speaker 1: little bit deeper into how these figures were manipulated and
Speaker 1: I guess, what really are the broader implications for society?
Speaker 2: Sure, so with someone like Mick Jagger, I mean, you know,
Speaker 2: the main focus of my book, I guess I put
Speaker 2: the most time into four central musicians, which are John Lennon,
Speaker 2: Jimi Hendrix, Tupac Shakur, and Kurt Cobain. But I do go,
Speaker 2: you know, a good bit into Mick Jagger too, because
Speaker 2: the fact that a book by A Hotchner got blown
Speaker 2: away about the Rolling Stones. In All History of the
Speaker 2: Rolling Stones details so much about them and the times,
Speaker 2: and A. Hotchner was the one time editor for Ernest
Speaker 2: Hemingway and so he was great, great writer himself, and
Speaker 2: the oral history of this is really well done. And
Speaker 2: so he came out with the fact that the CIA
Speaker 2: was basically getting in the late sixties. I was trying
Speaker 2: to get acid, you know, LSD, and it's as many rock
Speaker 2: musicians' hands as possible in Britain. And he said that
Speaker 2: the head of our assistant director, MK Ultrick, Guymed Robert
Speaker 2: Lashbrook went over to London in January sixty five and
Speaker 2: did this, brought tons of acid, loads of agents and
Speaker 2: you know, and loads of money and instructed them to
Speaker 2: do that. And so so John Lennon gets his first
Speaker 2: of acid through a dentist, through George Harrison's Dennis. He's dosed. Basically,
Speaker 2: his coffee is spiked with LSD without him knowing it,
Speaker 2: and him and George Harrison ended up tripping without you know,
Speaker 2: knowing that they were going to be you know, didn't
Speaker 2: do it voluntarily, and you know, John Lennon was furious.
Speaker 2: George Harrison said, what's LSD? I'd never heard of it
Speaker 2: because at that time, you know, it was late coming
Speaker 2: to Britain. And so so they took a while to
Speaker 2: ever do it again, but they did remembe six or
Speaker 2: eight months later in Los Angeles were convinced to try
Speaker 2: it again, but with Mick Jagger he held out. He
Speaker 2: didn't try it until nineteen sixty seven. And only then
Speaker 2: when a bunch of people at a party, I believe
Speaker 2: at Keith Richard's house. We're trying where you were doing it,
Speaker 2: and this guy named David Schneiderman convinced him to try
Speaker 2: some tea that happened to be you know, lace with LSD,
Speaker 2: and he finally tried it when you know, voluntarily, and
Speaker 2: started tripping. And so the police, you know, a few
Speaker 2: hours later, raided the party and they arrested you know,
Speaker 2: Mick Jagger and Keith Richards and you know, made headlines
Speaker 2: that he's tripped. You know, they arrested while they're tripping,
Speaker 2: and so it's happened to be his first time tripping
Speaker 2: and he gets arrested. And so obviously they set that
Speaker 2: up to promote asset, to promote l STE to others.
Speaker 2: There's little here's to your favorite, you know, the top
Speaker 2: musicians tripping and so you know, why don't you two
Speaker 2: kind of thing, And meanwhile they don't, they don't arrest
Speaker 2: David schneider Man. So it's obvious that police are working
Speaker 2: with Schneiderman because Schneiderman. It came out in a Daily
Speaker 2: Mail article, which is a you know London daily newspaper
Speaker 2: on the top two daily newspapers, the Daily Mail in
Speaker 2: the Guardian. But Daily Mail article said in the it
Speaker 2: came out in the past ten years, said that Schneiderman
Speaker 2: was working for both the FBI and the British version
Speaker 2: that I M I five Military intelligence five and so,
Speaker 2: and he was underground. You know, he's exposedly this underground
Speaker 2: Acid King they called him, and it was his nickname,
Speaker 2: the Acid King. And you know, and here he is
Speaker 2: working for intelligence, both American and British intelligence. So this
Speaker 2: was some of the ways that they targeted both Jagger
Speaker 2: and the Rolling Stones. Plus they tried to promote acid
Speaker 2: to the masses to basically quell the rising anti war
Speaker 2: movement and to quell the pro civil rights movement that
Speaker 2: was rising up more and more. And you know, later
Speaker 2: at UH they targeted Brian Jones, who was the founding
Speaker 2: member of the Rolling Stones and considered the best musician
Speaker 2: the Rolling Stones. They murdered him and A Hotchin's book
Speaker 2: details how there was witnesses, you know, told him that
Speaker 2: he was murdered. He was drowned in his own swimming pool,
Speaker 2: so it was an accident, but people saw him being
Speaker 2: drowned by some strangers. And so the Brian Jones and
Speaker 2: Mick Jagger were the most anti war outspoken the anti
Speaker 2: Vietnam War, and it was obviously they were targeting them
Speaker 2: for that and their influence. And Jones had been, you know,
Speaker 2: worked to sober upright before he was killed, he had
Speaker 2: already talked to Jimmy Hendricks and John Lennon about forming
Speaker 2: a new group, a supergroup of those three, and that
Speaker 2: was a danger to US intelligence because they both were
Speaker 2: worried about John Lennon's socialism and Jimmy Hendrix's growing radical
Speaker 2: activism at that time. And this was nineteen seventy And meanwhile,
Speaker 2: Brian Jones had just been disallowed from coming into the
Speaker 2: United States because of a drug like a former drug arrest,
Speaker 2: and so it was just, you know, so he was
Speaker 2: like temporarily out out of the Stones at that time,
Speaker 2: while the Stones are touring in the US at that time.
Speaker 2: So this is some of the stuff that was going
Speaker 2: on there. And Jagger, meanwhile, he ends up playing what's
Speaker 2: called an alternative Woodstock It's the Altamont Fest in I
Speaker 2: believe it was the Woodstock game was in New York
Speaker 2: and this was in the San Francisco somewhere in California
Speaker 2: between closer to San Francisco, between San Francisco and La
Speaker 2: I believe, and in the Aldermont fest was had a
Speaker 2: really low stage and there was a guy dressed in
Speaker 2: a suit in a strange way, but they have to
Speaker 2: be a black man dressed in a suit who took
Speaker 2: a step up on the stage while the Rolling Stones
Speaker 2: were playing, Mick Jagger was singing, and he had a
Speaker 2: gun on him and he takes a step on the
Speaker 2: stage within a few feet from Mick Jagger and the people,
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, the Hell's Angels, who were the security guards
Speaker 2: at that festival, grabbed him and pulled him off the stage.
Speaker 2: And he was carrying a gun in his hand as
Speaker 2: if ready to shoot, and they pulled him off the
Speaker 2: stage and stabbed him and killed him. And it was,
Speaker 2: you know, very sad to kill him. But this guy
Speaker 2: was obviously you know, I can only say he must
Speaker 2: have been programmed or brainwashed to do something like that
Speaker 2: because bringing it, you know, jumping on stage with a
Speaker 2: gun and shooting Mick Jaggers practically a good is like
Speaker 2: willing your own death. Really, because there were so many,
Speaker 2: so many Hells Angels over there who were you know,
Speaker 2: had weapons on them and that were peeked out their
Speaker 2: mind on speed and all kinds of other stuff that
Speaker 2: you know, it was like asking for your death to
Speaker 2: do that. So it's just a bizarre thing that happened,
Speaker 2: and it was I think it was obviously a murder
Speaker 2: attempt of Mick Jagger. And then later there they said
Speaker 2: there there was a bounty on Mick Jagger's head that
Speaker 2: other Hell's Angels, uh said that Mick Jagger owed them
Speaker 2: money or something like that, and they were gonna kill
Speaker 2: him if he you know, didn't pay him like some
Speaker 2: kind of money for whatever happened. It's hard to explain.
Speaker 2: But so there's just different attacks, and they basically were
Speaker 2: scaring Mick Jagger into quiet, you know, and to calm
Speaker 2: down and not be involved in the kind of anti
Speaker 2: war songs he was producing at that time and to
Speaker 2: go more low key in terms of his activism and
Speaker 2: h yes, some of the ways that occurred. Now, you
Speaker 2: also asked about the Black Panthers and who else there.
Speaker 1: Sorry, yeah, I mentioned the Grateful Dead as well.
Speaker 2: You say, so the Grateful Dead, I argue you were
Speaker 2: like more likely sadly enough, more likely US intelligence collaborators.
Speaker 2: I don't know to what extent, but I talked to
Speaker 2: somebody who said who was an acid dealer, and they
Speaker 2: said they got he got his acid directly from the
Speaker 2: Grateful Dead, and he was a big time dealer, and
Speaker 2: uh he helped.
Speaker 1: He was.
Speaker 2: They were like the band for the first acid test
Speaker 2: parties that turned into the Trips Festival. It became bigger
Speaker 2: with the Trips Festival aid and then became even bigger
Speaker 2: with the human beings. So they went from like a
Speaker 2: few dozen people at the first acid test party where
Speaker 2: they and I don't know if you heard the Acid
Speaker 2: Test Party or your listeners have, but they would have
Speaker 2: a basically a big like a trash can full kool aid,
Speaker 2: and the kool Aid, you know, is plastic insert into
Speaker 2: the trash can, then filled with kool Aid, and then
Speaker 2: pouring tons of LSD into that kool aid, so that
Speaker 2: every time you got a cupful, you'd be tripping. And
Speaker 2: some people knew that it was it was you know,
Speaker 2: spiked with it was electric coallid, they call it. It was
Speaker 2: spiked with acid. Some people didn't, and they first started
Speaker 2: with a small party with it and then it got bigger.
Speaker 2: It went from a few dozen to a few, you know,
Speaker 2: to maybe one hundred to a few hundred to one thousand.
Speaker 2: These parties got bigger and bigger, you know, been bigger
Speaker 2: and bigger venues. And so I argue that they were
Speaker 2: promoting LSD in a big way that way, and promoting
Speaker 2: it to more and more people around the hot bed
Speaker 2: San Francisco UH anti war scene, and uh, it was
Speaker 2: like a grow It was a big time UH activist
Speaker 2: scene around Berkeley. Then with the free speech movement, you know,
Speaker 2: starting in Berkeley, California, and University of California, Berkeley, and
Speaker 2: then the Civil rights movement, a lot of the Freedom
Speaker 2: Summer activists came from from Berkeley and other schools around
Speaker 2: there and took a bus all the way to the
Speaker 2: to the South, you know American South where Martin Uther
Speaker 2: King was trying to you know, organize to get people,
Speaker 2: you know, blacks the right to vote. And so there
Speaker 2: was loads of buses coming from New York and even
Speaker 2: all the way from that area of San Francisco, you know,
Speaker 2: area of California, and so that they were trying to
Speaker 2: target those activists at that time, and they were successful
Speaker 2: with it. They were getting loads of UKL Berkeley activist
Speaker 2: you know, people on a trip and hurt their minds
Speaker 2: and take you know, make them not as good as
Speaker 2: activists when they were kind of scatterbrained from all the acid.
Speaker 2: And so the Grateful Dead were instrumental in that way.
Speaker 2: And so they also played you know, had acid tests. Well.
Speaker 2: First thing it was, you know, it was an extension
Speaker 2: of King Keyesy and the Mary Pranksters, which I show
Speaker 2: the evidence was actually an intelligence operation. Loads of military,
Speaker 2: one guy who was part of the pranksters, and you
Speaker 2: know Ken Kizi's group. They could so they called themselves.
Speaker 2: They were getting having acid parties all over the place.
Speaker 2: And then they painted a bus and dig low colors
Speaker 2: in about nineteen sixty five or so and took it
Speaker 2: across the country promoting acids. It was actually nineteen sixty
Speaker 2: fours when that happened into nineteen sixty five in their
Speaker 2: cross country trip, and that bus actually followed left the
Speaker 2: same day that day. Glue Bus left the same day
Speaker 2: as the Freedom Summer Bus and from the activists of
Speaker 2: cal Berkeley and then took the same path into the
Speaker 2: South where the Freedom Summer movement was organizing, and so
Speaker 2: it was trying to get loads of these activists tripping
Speaker 2: and turned, you know, getting away from the civil rights
Speaker 2: movement work and tripping and being diverted into that. And
Speaker 2: then they went to New York and then came all
Speaker 2: the way back across the country, veering up to Canada,
Speaker 2: through parts of Canada, and coming came back to San Francisco.
Speaker 2: They then start the acid test parties and then they
Speaker 2: hold you know, in that bus trip, they actually went
Speaker 2: through Harlem, and they went through Harlem in New York,
Speaker 2: you know, right after the first riot, the Harlem riot
Speaker 2: against police brutality in there. And then they came back
Speaker 2: and they ended up doing these big acid tests right
Speaker 2: in the middle of Watts in Los Angeles. And Watts
Speaker 2: is a black neighborhood of Los Angeles where they had
Speaker 2: just rioted also against police brutality and for civil rights.
Speaker 2: And you know, we could call them rebellions instead of riots.
Speaker 2: They rebelled for you know, for civil rights and against
Speaker 2: police brutality and things like that. And so this is
Speaker 2: what they were trying to do. They were trying to
Speaker 2: hurt the minds of these kinds of activists and so
Speaker 2: you know, sadly enough, the Grateful Dead seem to be
Speaker 2: part of that. And now I don't know if Jerry
Speaker 2: Garcia it was a victim and he was being duped
Speaker 2: into being part of that or not, but he did
Speaker 2: come out of the army, But who knows for sure.
Speaker 2: I do think some of the other members of the
Speaker 2: bands were, you know, probably knowing more knowing what they
Speaker 2: were doing. Nonetheless, then you got the Black Panthers, and
Speaker 2: the Black Panthers were you know, many community organizing people
Speaker 2: and activists consider them some of the best community organizing activists,
Speaker 2: you know, maybe of the twentieth century. They did great
Speaker 2: work for you know, the basically taking where Martha King
Speaker 2: kind of left off in a more traditional kind of
Speaker 2: marching and organizing to a little more of where Martha
Speaker 2: Malcolm X was standing in terms of self defense. And
Speaker 2: so they armed themselves for self defense. But they organized
Speaker 2: free breakfast programs for poor black kids. They organized housing
Speaker 2: rights education, they were organized free health clinics. They did
Speaker 2: just some incredible organizing around so many different issues in
Speaker 2: the black communities. And and they were of course brutally targeted,
Speaker 2: but you know, they were bruly murdered. A number of
Speaker 2: the Black Panther leaders were murdered, you know, particularly uh
Speaker 2: sorry Fred Hampton and uh people like Los Angeles leaders
Speaker 2: like Bunchie Carter and John Huggins. And but Huey Newton
Speaker 2: was founding member and you know with I'm sorry, his
Speaker 2: name just leaves me all of a sudden, but you know,
Speaker 2: he founded the Black Panther Party with chairman Bobby Seal.
Speaker 2: And and they targeted Huey Newton with cocaine, and they
Speaker 2: can certain people can have more of a susceptibility to addictions.
Speaker 2: And it's not clear that Huey Newton developed addiction, but
Speaker 2: they put a woman named Lane Brown in his life.
Speaker 2: She said she you know, I mean people she admitted
Speaker 2: in one place that she brought cocaine, or at least
Speaker 2: people that knew them said she brought cocaine and beautiful
Speaker 2: women all around him to get him using cocaine. And
Speaker 2: Bobby Seal said he did develop a cocaine problem at
Speaker 2: that time. And Elaine Brown was caught with cocaine and
Speaker 2: received like just in order to do yoga lessons versus
Speaker 2: going to jail for it. But Elaine Brown is a
Speaker 2: Black Panther who was likely in undercover agent. Sorry to say,
Speaker 2: it's the best evidence. Even Kathleen Cleaver, the national spokesperson
Speaker 2: for the Black Panthers, has said this, as well as
Speaker 2: John ro Pratt, who was the Los Angeles Black Panther
Speaker 2: leader at one time. And so, you know, Huey k.
Speaker 2: Newton developed a cocaine addiction, sadly enough, as did a
Speaker 2: number of other Black Panthers that were introduced to either
Speaker 2: cocaine or heroin at different places around the country. And
Speaker 2: it just really hurt the Black Panthers as a whole
Speaker 2: that they're one of their leaders was was manipulated into
Speaker 2: getting involved with cocaine and hurt himself and as best
Speaker 2: organized and because of it.
Speaker 1: Well, there was a lot of process. So why can
Speaker 1: you tell me about the Kurt Cobain connection.
Speaker 2: So Kurt Cobain was not known as much of an
Speaker 2: as much of an activist as as was like Tupac
Speaker 2: Shakur who whose mother was a pane cor one time
Speaker 2: leader with Harlem Black Panthers, and his father was also
Speaker 2: a Black Panther. So you know, Tupac was was born
Speaker 2: an activist and and became an activist leader early on.
Speaker 2: And so John Lennon was openly said he was a
Speaker 2: socialist and was very actively anti war and interviewed Black
Speaker 2: Panthers and other you know, Abby Hoffmann, other I can't
Speaker 2: he wore people and like the MERV Griffin Show when
Speaker 2: he was a host for a week of the MERV
Speaker 2: Griffin Show. So like these kinds of musicians were more
Speaker 2: open about it. But Kurt Cobain was very you know
Speaker 2: it said made anti capitalist statements. He was you know,
Speaker 2: he's just talked about a lot of activist causes. It
Speaker 2: was very anti materialistic. He talked about he would only
Speaker 2: appear on Rolling Stone magazine's cover if he could wear
Speaker 2: a shirt that said corporate magazines still suck, you know.
Speaker 2: So he supported independent media before it was just a
Speaker 2: you know, big thing to do. And so he was
Speaker 2: really brilliant guy about the media, about the you know,
Speaker 2: corporate kind of control over society and things like that.
Speaker 2: He was very anti war and things like that. So
Speaker 2: he was he was like a lesser known activist. But
Speaker 2: I argue that he was manipulated by Courtney Love and
Speaker 2: US intelligence to get to develop a short term heroin problem.
Speaker 2: You know, I said short term maybe a year or
Speaker 2: two or three. At the most a heroin problem. And
Speaker 2: then when he sobered up and got away from the
Speaker 2: heroin and more into his you know, good causes and
Speaker 2: in a little more independence and was divorcing Courtney Love,
Speaker 2: they did away with him. They killed him. And so
Speaker 2: he I argued that he was manipulated to promote heroin.
Speaker 2: And when he when Nirvana got big every year from
Speaker 2: nineteen ninety one to ninety two to ninety three, you know,
Speaker 2: when he was when he died, each year that the
Speaker 2: heroin use went up by ten percent, and it continued
Speaker 2: going up by ten percent, you know, when Nirvana was
Speaker 2: still popular and Courtney Love was still promoting it with
Speaker 2: hole and awe, you know, each year of the nineties,
Speaker 2: and you know, uh, and it's just very sad that
Speaker 2: he inadvertently promoted heroin. And then when he sobered up,
Speaker 2: people didn't you know, didn't even really know it because
Speaker 2: they hit it. They hit the fact that he had
Speaker 2: sobered up, and uh that he said in an interview
Speaker 2: or two that he found a cure to a stomach
Speaker 2: problem he had and had gotten away. It was just
Speaker 2: so glad, you know, to get away from h had
Speaker 2: a son problem in the year when he was in
Speaker 2: Rome touring with Nirvana. All the people around him, all
Speaker 2: the other band members says he wouldn't even smoke weed
Speaker 2: or do anything like that. He was just so so
Speaker 2: so you clean and sober at that time. And the
Speaker 2: blood test. When Courtney Love visited him with their daughter Francis,
Speaker 2: she basically brought her her sleep medication that that you
Speaker 2: can get in England, which was roe hypnol and rohypnoll
Speaker 2: is rufie's and so she brought her roal hypno and
Speaker 2: the best evidence says that she dosed a drink his
Speaker 2: drink with ro hypno and rufied him to the point
Speaker 2: that she caused him to go into a coma. She
Speaker 2: put a huge amount of hypnoa on his drink. He
Speaker 2: went to a coma, almost died, but didn't die, but
Speaker 2: he couldn't remember what happened, because that's what rufe's do
Speaker 2: to you, and so you know, she tried to kill him.
Speaker 2: He was divorcing her at the time, but he did
Speaker 2: want to see his daughter Francis. He loved his daughter Francis.
Speaker 2: And I have in my film, I have you know,
Speaker 2: the tape tape recording of his lawyer him and Courtney's
Speaker 2: lawyer saying that, you know, she thought that there his
Speaker 2: his kind of suicide note was faked. Was somebody copied
Speaker 2: his handwriting and used terms that he would use kind
Speaker 2: of thing. And so the best evidence is is that
Speaker 2: Courtney Love either knowingly or unknowingly because she had a
Speaker 2: twuly twisted life of growing up going to counseling at
Speaker 2: by different accounts, at different memoirs, either you know, either
Speaker 2: age two or three or four she started counseling. And
Speaker 2: if you say, you know, you do some counseling yourself,
Speaker 2: you know, two or three or four years old is
Speaker 2: a ridiculous age to start counseling. And so she ends
Speaker 2: up saying that these all these counselors she was sent
Speaker 2: to were having sex with her. In the psychiatrists that
Speaker 2: they were sending her to, we're having sex with her.
Speaker 2: And she mentioned she told her father in a letter
Speaker 2: to her dad when she was in a juvenile delinquent
Speaker 2: facility at about thirteen years old, she said, Dad, can
Speaker 2: you get me out of this facility? Because her father
Speaker 2: had been had been forced by her mother to lose
Speaker 2: all custody of her because the mother had had basically
Speaker 2: the super wealthy parents, and she was basically adopted daughter
Speaker 2: of super wealthy parents. And the super wealthy parents abused
Speaker 2: Courtey Love's mother, and her name was Linda Carroll and
Speaker 2: and they basically then put tons of money into buying
Speaker 2: out the lawyer for Hank Harrison. Courty loves adopted you know,
Speaker 2: I mean Courtey loves biological dad, so that he would
Speaker 2: lose all lose the case and lose all custody of Courtney.
Speaker 2: And so this is what happened. He lost total custody.
Speaker 2: He was really depressed, and all of a sudden he
Speaker 2: gets this letter when she's thirteen years old, please get
Speaker 2: me out of the juvenile de Linquent facility. She gets
Speaker 2: her out of there and he finds out she's she
Speaker 2: She said in her letter that they were giving me
Speaker 2: ro hypnot I mean they were giving me all these
Speaker 2: exotic drugs. And these drugs were seen in mk ultra
Speaker 2: documents as you know, kind of drugs that can be
Speaker 2: used with hypnosis to successfully you know, help brainwash people.
Speaker 2: And so you know, the second all two and all
Speaker 2: is things like that, and that he shouldn't be given
Speaker 2: to a thirteen year old. But anyway, peers. You know,
Speaker 2: he can't be sure, but appears that with the sexual
Speaker 2: assaults and the drugs, they created her as a you know,
Speaker 2: having created the social of identity in her which she
Speaker 2: used to be called multiple personality disorder, and led her
Speaker 2: to be, you know, a kind of prostitute for the CIA,
Speaker 2: a prostitute and you know, someone who would do their bidding,
Speaker 2: and she did. You know, Hank Harrison found she was
Speaker 2: using when she got out. When he broke got her
Speaker 2: out of the delinquents facility and took her in, she
Speaker 2: would leave needles around his basement and be prostituting herself
Speaker 2: and he just couldn't even keep her for more than
Speaker 2: a year or two because she was his new wife.
Speaker 2: His wife was just saying, we can't have these needles
Speaker 2: all over the house as she's leaving on the floor
Speaker 2: and stuff. But she turned into a prostitute, appeared, you know,
Speaker 2: in terms of her letters. People have letters from her
Speaker 2: talking about her prostituting herself. From her letters to a
Speaker 2: boyfriend saying, I prostituted myself to get back to you.
Speaker 2: She was doing this in Asian countries before she was
Speaker 2: out of ten years and by the time she was
Speaker 2: seventeen years old. She was in Dublin visiting her dad
Speaker 2: who was doing research for a book, and a guy
Speaker 2: who befriended him ended up having sex with her who
Speaker 2: befriended her dad ended up having sex with her a
Speaker 2: guy named Steveen O'Leary, and Stephen O'Leary then takes her
Speaker 2: to England and she just turned seventeen and she's got
Speaker 2: a thousand hits of LSD on her and she brings
Speaker 2: that to England and passes around like candy to a
Speaker 2: bunch of you know, rock musicians in England in the
Speaker 2: budding rock scene. And she also has tons of other
Speaker 2: drugs own hers she's passing around for free. And so
Speaker 2: she becomes this groupie h doing what the what a
Speaker 2: you know what Robert Lashbrook them killed assistant director did
Speaker 2: back in the sixties. She's doing this in the eighties,
Speaker 2: giving you know, getting loads of LSD to different musicians,
Speaker 2: as well as other drugs like you know, pain pills,
Speaker 2: opiates and stuff, you know, leading to addictions. She's having
Speaker 2: sex with a number of the musicians and these are
Speaker 2: all in different memoirs of her, I mean different biographies,
Speaker 2: and you know she admits some of this and in
Speaker 2: an authorized biography, and so she was obviously, uh doing
Speaker 2: the bidding of intelligence. And when she entered Kurt Cobaine's life,
Speaker 2: when when when never Mind, his best selling the album
Speaker 2: never Mind was first rising up the charts, and gets
Speaker 2: starts dating him, gets pregnant with him really quickly, and
Speaker 2: then you know, the oldest trick in the book to
Speaker 2: get to get someone to marry you. And they see
Speaker 2: all the friends of Cobain say, that's the first time
Speaker 2: that they saw Cobaine developed, you know, start using heroin regularly,
Speaker 2: and that's how they they started promoting heroin so much
Speaker 2: through him. And then when he sobered up, the best
Speaker 2: evidences that he was murdered, he didn't kill himself, and
Speaker 2: a former Los Angeles murder detective named Tom Grant end
Speaker 2: up investigating this whole situation, uh quitting Love actually hired
Speaker 2: him to just have a pretend version of why she
Speaker 2: wasn't involved in his death, and he ended up finding
Speaker 2: tons of evidence that Courtney Love was involved in Kurt
Speaker 2: Cobain's death, like in what he found to be the
Speaker 2: murder of Cobain, and that he had basically died of
Speaker 2: a huge. What Cyril whacked that one of the top forensics,
Speaker 2: you know, doctors in the country, said president of the
Speaker 2: Forensic Society, said, was a massive amount of heroin was
Speaker 2: in the system when he died, and for someone to
Speaker 2: he's never seen someone do that, you know, do that
Speaker 2: much heroin and then pick up a shotgun and kill themselves.
Speaker 2: It's just that it doesn't make sense. But he also
Speaker 2: said it was just a staged suicide. Someone murgered him
Speaker 2: and tried to make it look like a suicide. And
Speaker 2: I have that all my film You can see Sarah
Speaker 2: Wick talking about that, and so yeah, it was basically
Speaker 2: you know. And now I also have someone in my
Speaker 2: films saying that he was offered fifty grand by Courtney
Speaker 2: Love to kill Kurt Kubin. So and he didn't take it,
Speaker 2: but he knows who did take it take that offer,
Speaker 2: And and that's the way it all played out, sadly enough.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So just another question along the same thing. How
Speaker 1: do you see somebody like Bob Marley being used as
Speaker 1: a tool for social control?
Speaker 2: Well, Bob Marley, I don't. I don't think he was used.
Speaker 2: I think he was killed because he was just supporting
Speaker 2: the Independent Jamaica, and he was friends with Michael Manley,
Speaker 2: who was the socialist leader of Jamaica at that time
Speaker 2: when in the nineteen seventies and the CIA was promoting
Speaker 2: and supporting a you know, an opponent of Michael Manley's
Speaker 2: who was running against him, and so I think they
Speaker 2: first got a gang that supported that opponent and they
Speaker 2: shot him up. They shot up Bob Marley but didn't
Speaker 2: kill him, but a shot Rita Marley, his wife and
Speaker 2: others that were in the home. And when they didn't
Speaker 2: kill him, and he was going to play a concert
Speaker 2: that that was considered to be promoting Michael Manley, and
Speaker 2: Michael Manley was hiding him, you know, somewhere so he
Speaker 2: wouldn't get attacked again. The a CIA agent actually a
Speaker 2: director of the CIA's son, the guy in Colby, Carl
Speaker 2: Colby was UH William Colby's son. William Colbe was UH
Speaker 2: had at one time head of the c I. A
Speaker 2: UH Carl Colby had infiltrated a film crew that was
Speaker 2: covering the concert that Bob Marley was doing, and Colby
Speaker 2: gave Bob Marley this gift shoes. Bob Marley put his
Speaker 2: you know, try to on the gift shoes as his
Speaker 2: like traditional amongst Rosparians when they're given a gift like that,
Speaker 2: and he was jabbed in the toe and stabbed in
Speaker 2: the toe by metal spike in the shoe and he
Speaker 2: ends up getting a few months later, he gets ends
Speaker 2: up getting cancer in that toe and that can't cancer
Speaker 2: metastasizes fast throughout his body. But one of the eyewitnesses
Speaker 2: to that was a guy named Leelu Lee who confirmed that,
Speaker 2: and uh, you told me he appreciated my work investigating
Speaker 2: all this, but he was there, saw it happened, didn't
Speaker 2: think anything of it at the time, but then when
Speaker 2: Bob Marley crushed that toe playing soccer a few months later,
Speaker 2: he thought, you know, something might be suspicious about it all,
Speaker 2: and especially when he got cancer and that seemed toe
Speaker 2: And so they just wanted to stop him from doing
Speaker 2: what he was doing now in terms of you know,
Speaker 2: being Rosafarian, and they smoked a lot of weed. Is
Speaker 2: it possible that they wanted to promote you know, smoking
Speaker 2: weed at one point. I don't know, I mean to
Speaker 2: make yeah, I really I don't know much about that,
Speaker 2: but I just think they wanted to stop him from
Speaker 2: from promoting you know, Jamaica independence from the CIA, and
Speaker 2: and he says, you know, his lyrics, Bob Marley said,
Speaker 2: stand up for your rights. And you know, Rosses don't
Speaker 2: deal with any CIA. They don't want a CIA around
Speaker 2: in his songs and his lyrics and and so. But
Speaker 2: you know they wanted to do away with Bob Marley
Speaker 2: because of that. And Marley was popular internationally in a
Speaker 2: huge way before he died.
Speaker 1: So yeah, well I definitely see, you know, living in
Speaker 1: the Caribbean, I definitely see Bob Marley's impact with the
Speaker 1: smoking of the weed partner, for sure.
Speaker 2: I hear you. And so if yeah, I mean, if
Speaker 2: if they were trying to quell the masses and just
Speaker 2: have them all stoned all the time, sadly that you know,
Speaker 2: that might be the case. But you know, so there's
Speaker 2: always that door. There's a lot of that dual aspect
Speaker 2: going on. You know.
Speaker 1: It's yeah, yeah, I get now. You mentioned psychedelics earlier,
Speaker 1: and do you think it has any positive surrounding psychedelics
Speaker 1: like the use of an how they say these days
Speaker 1: that they can use it to out with trauma and
Speaker 1: on this crap. Obviously, I don't believe it because I'm
Speaker 1: calling it crap.
Speaker 2: But yeah, yeah, well so'm I became ten years ago.
Speaker 2: I got trained in something called em DR Eye Movement,
Speaker 2: Desensitization and reprocessing, and that is just you know, kind
Speaker 2: of stimulating each side of that bringing back and forth,
Speaker 2: either with eye movement like this or with feeling tappers
Speaker 2: vibrating back and forth in each hand, or you know,
Speaker 2: methods like that, and that I believe is the gold
Speaker 2: standard for trauma treatment. It's non invasive. You know. Benzodiazepines
Speaker 2: you know, like adavan, xanax, valume all that, they're invasive,
Speaker 2: and they have side effects and they can cause addictions
Speaker 2: and stuff. Psychedelics like m D m A. You know,
Speaker 2: ecstasy can cause you know, brain trauma, has bad side
Speaker 2: effects to have brain trauma that way and hurt your memory.
Speaker 2: Acid is causing some problems in the brain, you know,
Speaker 2: with emotional control troom psychedelic mushrooms. Maybe maybe that might
Speaker 2: be a some kind of safer form of trauma you
Speaker 2: know PTSD treatment. I don't know, I don't know if
Speaker 2: I believe what's coming out of studies with that, just
Speaker 2: because I mean it's possible could help in some way,
Speaker 2: and great if it does that one at least at
Speaker 2: least shrooms. I haven't found necessarily negative side effects of
Speaker 2: I just don't know. I felt like when I did
Speaker 2: trooms in high school, I wasn't as strong mentally after
Speaker 2: doing the shrooms for at least a few weeks, if
Speaker 2: not a few months, but it didn't have as bam
Speaker 2: of effect as me or as acid did. And I
Speaker 2: haven't found the studies saying it's as bad as acid
Speaker 2: at all when when our brains. But it's hard to
Speaker 2: believe the studies that are being done. They are coming
Speaker 2: out though, because the fact that they all my best
Speaker 2: evidence shows that they're funded by m culture like projects,
Speaker 2: the CIM culture like projects, So it's hard to know
Speaker 2: their authenticity because they were funding faked studies back in
Speaker 2: the sixties and with a front group called the Human
Speaker 2: Ecology Fund, which was a CIM culture fund group accord
Speaker 2: into Anthropology today and you know the Anthropology like that
Speaker 2: it's a journal for the Anthropology Association, and so yeah,
Speaker 2: it's just hard to know about that. But I you know,
Speaker 2: the fundings coming from billionaires like the Rockefellers who funded
Speaker 2: CIM culture Front group Human Ecology Fund enc and you
Speaker 2: know m culture itself, and the Rockefellers are funding the
Speaker 2: funders of the current stuff. These their funding and the
Speaker 2: groups are called the MAPS, the Multidispinary Association of Psychedelic Studies,
Speaker 2: and the Hefter Institute who work with them. And so
Speaker 2: I don't believe the Rockefellers have good intent, you know,
Speaker 2: regarding these things.
Speaker 1: I don't buy any of it either. Just to overshare
Speaker 1: a little bit. I'd see the same issue happening with
Speaker 1: like ayahuasca retreats and what's the other one, the frog thing,
Speaker 1: buffo evadis or something like it. Is that what it's called.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I know what you're talking about.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I see people come to me like and the
Speaker 1: way that they act it's still along the lines of
Speaker 1: somebody that uses like coke or something. They still act
Speaker 1: kind of like addictive, and their personality and how they
Speaker 1: can emotionally regulate and self regulate and make decisions for themselves,
Speaker 1: and nothing changes. They just want to run off to
Speaker 1: the Ecuador or somewhere else crazy and do psychedelics again
Speaker 1: because they think that that's helping them. But it's really
Speaker 1: not interesting.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, now I hear you. I Yeah, I just
Speaker 2: don't know I don't know much about the you know,
Speaker 2: how people do with ayahuasca or not, but I could
Speaker 2: believe that it's you know, it's just there'sn't a lot
Speaker 2: of help there. But you know, if people do get
Speaker 2: help from it, good for them. I just think that
Speaker 2: it's hard to know if these studies are legit because
Speaker 2: of because of all the people who are funding them
Speaker 2: are so you know, I have done such bad things
Speaker 2: in the past. So yeah, yeah, I agree.
Speaker 1: I agree in just about every way studies about just
Speaker 1: about anything, you have to question them because of who's
Speaker 1: behind them. But you know, we're coming up to a
Speaker 1: little bit close to the hour now, and I know
Speaker 1: you're busy, so I'm just going to ask you one
Speaker 1: last question and anything here.
Speaker 2: Thanks.
Speaker 1: And I guess it would be what what do you
Speaker 1: hope people will take away from your documentaries?
Speaker 2: Yeah, so, in terms of my book and film, Drugs
Speaker 2: as Weapons against Us and the other documentaries, I hope
Speaker 2: that people will learn from them and stay away from,
Speaker 2: you know, the drugs that can hurt them, stay away
Speaker 2: from them, and so they have the strongest minds and
Speaker 2: bodies to do the best activism they can and to
Speaker 2: you know, go against the perpetual war, you know, kind
Speaker 2: of government establishment we have in this country, and work
Speaker 2: towards you know, you know, proof civil rights, kinds of
Speaker 2: causes and positive work on positive causes in our country.
Speaker 2: And and I guess you know, learn from some of
Speaker 2: the tactics that the CIA and US intelligence uses against us,
Speaker 2: to learn from them and to avoid them and to
Speaker 2: organize better, you know, with with the knowledge they have
Speaker 2: around these different tactics.
Speaker 1: That's fair. That's fair. Thank Okay, Well, thanks for being
Speaker 1: on the Boundless Authenticity Podcast. I will invite you back
Speaker 1: again to talk about shots and E M d R
Speaker 1: therapy so that we can get a bitter idea of
Speaker 1: how those work.
Speaker 2: Great, thanks a lot, John, thanks a lot for having
Speaker 2: me on.
Speaker 1: Gret You're welcome. You're listening to the Boundless Authenticity Podcast
Speaker 1: where we discuss everything related to the evolution of human consciousness.
Speaker 2: That's very nice. Need to understand the United States builds bunkers,
Speaker 2: which are basical stages of your rod. Every three months
Speaker 2: in your dream, you tuck into your self conscious it.
Speaker 1: Is your lot and you in solution, your creativity.
Speaker 2: And imagination unchanged from conscious cis and and locating.
Speaker 1: All as real large for the soul by how are consciousness, secnology,
Speaker 1: cultus of agarium for your grin?
Speaker 2: We live in a multi dimensional reality, whether it comes
Speaker 2: through estary.
Speaker 1: Information in the spiritual realms or the UFO people experiences,
Speaker 1: or mainstream on the physics and through matrem science and
Speaker 1: now realizing that parallel dimensions probably exist. We're all spiritual means,
Speaker 1: we're all having these human experience as we've.
Speaker 2: Heard that place over and over and over. But what
Speaker 2: does that really mean? You know, all of the questions
Speaker 2: of why we have these answers inside of our soul, We're.
Speaker 1: Ultimately studying the nature of what it is to be human,
Speaker 1: good and evil, our psychology, how were fitting our health.
Speaker 2: That's why I love Bruce Lee's great quote all knowledge
Speaker 2: is ultimately self knowledge.