Speaker 1: So I had this like existential crisis. I guess I
just sort of came to terms with who I was
in that moment and I decided to stay in.
Speaker 2: Hey, this is Remco. Thanks for clicking on the video.
This is my brand new podcast called facey As, in
which I talked to the most interesting people in poker
and go a little deeper into the topics you most
care about. Enjoy Welcome to face the ace to podcast.
Today I'm joined by Alex Livingston, two time Braceles winner
Main Event Final Table under his belts has another deep
run as well, with lots of stories to get into today.
Please if you like the show, like the video, subscribe
to a channel, leave a comment, and make some suggestions
for guests. Alex, we're in the middle of the main
as we're recording this. Yeah, this event, of course, you know,
I don't even have to go over it, but has
so much special meaning to you, especially as your career
is sort of defined by two deep runs every year.
You walk back into the main event and you see
the room, you see the players. What are some of
the first things that come back to mind?
Speaker 1: Well, I mean, obviously I'm a little biased by the
fact that I've had those deep runs. But to me,
the Main Event has always just been a very very
special tournament. There's just a different buzz in the room,
you know, it's everything about the Main really. I always
like tournaments that have deeper, slower structures. I like having
lots of big blinds and room to maneuver. But I mean,
of course, the Main it just attracts all the top
pros for the most part. And then you know everyone
around the world who just has this dream of winning
the biggest tournament poker, and you have all these like leagues,
you know, they'll they'll have thirty guys and they'll send
one player to the Main every year. I played with
a guy who was coming from one of those leagues
at my table yesterday, and so it's just this amazing
collection of players, and there's everyone's just truly, truly happy
to be there.
Speaker 2: Is it an advantage having gone deep twice for those
living under a rock? Third in twenty nineteen for four million,
and then thirteenth back in I Got to get This
right twenty thirteen for four and fifty k Is it
an advantage having done that twice? Or is it perhaps
also mentally becoming a big hurdle because you know how
insane it is to go on those runs.
Speaker 1: Definitely just purely an advantage. I would say both because
I'm comfortable with you know. So the first time I
went deep, I kind of struggled to sleep and eat
properly on the last few days. And then the second time,
because I'd done it once, I think I was much
more comfortable. So for me just being at the table,
I'm more relaxed and comfortable. I don't feel any extra burden,
you know. Of course, I think I will go deep
again at some point. I hope to win at some point.
I mean, I know it seems unrealistic, but that's if
you don't think you can win and want to win,
then why play. But I don't feel any extra pressure
to have another result like that. I just I just
want to And then you know, now with the app,
players can look up who's at their table, so people
will look me up and they'll see the two runs,
and I think that, you know, for a casual player,
there's a little extra intimidation. So my big thing in
the main is, you know, one of the best ways
to pick up chips is just raised and still blinds
and if people are just folding their big blind a
little bit more to you, or just not three bidding
you quite as much out of the small blind. You
know that goes a long way.
Speaker 2: Do you try to figure out who's aware of you
and your resume? Do you try to sort of get
those early reads, perhaps through conversation, because there's definitely an
advantage to be had there. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Well, I always like to talk to people at the table.
It's not like I talk every single time, you know,
minute I'm playing, but I do. I'm pretty social at
the table, and I'm certainly not going to ask someone
do you know who I am? But like sometimes people
will just say something to me, or they'll ask me
about my run, So then that I register that. I've
always looked at poker as talk to people, get to
know who they are as a person, and then figure
out who they're going to be as a player based
on who they are as a person. So I actually
try to sort of solve the strategy that they're going
to employ without looking at the poker decisions. That's that's
just always been my thought process.
Speaker 2: Can you give an example of that or how that
comes into practice? Sometimes?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean even just the way. You know, there's
all these things you can you've read about maybe in
older books, like the way people still their chips like
a tighter players are going to stack them much more
like organized and then you know, looser players they'll be
a little more splashy. But you know, you just get
to learn. Maybe you get an idea of the type
of upbringing somebody had and how they're going to You know,
maybe they are more of a disciplined person, so you
just expect less light three bets. Maybe they have a
bit of an ego and they want to show off
to people, so you expect that they're willing to show
up with a big bluff and a huge spot, and
you can you can make that read because you know
they want a table the bluff in your face. There's
some people who you three bet them twice in a row.
They're going to take it very personally and stuff like that.
And I just find by talking to people, you get
an idea of people's tendencies, and then you can always
adjust once you see a showdown. You know, you can
always say, okay, well maybe I was wrong, but I
would rather start with coming from a place of assuming
everyone's going to play the way I think they will
and then be willing to amit when I'm wrong.
Speaker 2: When you had your first run, you had six total
live cashes when you cast for four hundred and fifty
one thousand, which is kind of crazy to look back.
Speaker 1: On or false O WSP cashes maybe.
Speaker 2: No total cashes I'm seeing here on your hand in
MOB Yeah, I'm looking at it. Wow. Yeah it was nine,
you had one, In eleven you had three, and then
twenty thirteen you had two just prior to the w
CP in Barcelona.
Speaker 1: So I guess I wasn't much of a tournament player. Yeah,
I've always been. I guess when I would say it
started to become more of a tournament player was after COVID. Actually,
so even in my run in twenty nineteen, I wasn't
much of a tournament player. But yeah, I guess in
twenty thirteen I was even even raw that I thought.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so my statement I wanted to make true or
false that result had a bigger impact on your poker
career than the third place finish.
Speaker 1: I think that's fair. Yeah, I think that's fair. Although
when I had the third place finish, I was kind
of down swinging prior, and so it was it was
massive as well, but in terms of maybe building my confidence,
that one in twenty thirteen was really important and led
me to play more tournaments certainly, But you know, it
really wasn't until I guess twenty twenty two that I
would say I kind of became a full time tournament
player for a few years. And now I'm pivoting back
to a bit of a mix.
Speaker 2: So take us back prior to the score in twenty thirteen,
where were you at mentally, where were you at stakes wise?
And how did that score fit into your poker career
at that point.
Speaker 1: Yeah, twenty thirteen was a pretty cool year because, like,
just from a personal level, I went to Africa for
the first time with my mom. She's incredible. She volunteers
in Rwanda and works with the antissiologists there and she's
done a lot of amazing things and she had been
going every year. So I finally went with her and
volunteered in orphanage for a month, and then I went
and climbed Mount Kilmanjarro, and then I went and lived
in Barcelona for three months, played poker every day. So
it was a really cool, immersive kind of year I
was having, but I certainly wasn't super established poker wise.
I was playing two four no limit in Barcelona and
I was doing reasonably well, but you know, I didn't
have a big bang roll by any means. Now, I
sold a bunch for that twenty thirteen man, so you know,
I didn't pocket the whole four fifty by any means.
But it was the first time that I now had
a six figure bankroll. I think maybe I had briefly
had right around six figures before that, but this was
like definitely a huge moment.
Speaker 2: At that point in time twenty thirteen, which I you know,
vivibly remember because that was also when poker still seemed
like a real opportunity for people. As now it comes
with so many more caveats because of how much stuff
for the game has gotten an online. It's just so
different from what it was back then. Did you have
a sense or an outlook back then on what poker
would mean in the compts of your life? What was it,
you know, just a train station along the way, or
was it perhaps the final destination? How did you look
at it?
Speaker 1: Well, it's funny because there was times when I thought
to myself well, by the time I turned twenty eight,
I'll be doing something else. By the time I turned thirty,
I'll be doing something And then I've kind of stopped
thinking that at this point. Like I think, at that
point it was unclear if poker was what I want
to do for the rest of my life. But I'd
been doing it for five or six years and you know,
getting by, so I certainly enjoyed it, but I wasn't
sure it was going to be necessarily a full time career.
Speaker 2: So then we'd go one step further back to two
thousand and nine. The story that I'd love for you
to share with us, and what you remember of it
is the misflight in Amsterdam, and then how that became
sort of pivotal to perhaps a moment of reflection and
perhaps some introspection on what you wanted to do. Yeah,
take us back to that trip.
Speaker 1: That was a good one. So two thousand and nine,
I have just taken a year off of college. I
had completed three years at this point, so I was
supposed to go back for my fourth year. But because
I took the year off, like all the guys in
my class had already graduated, so I was going to
be socially. It was give me a little bit different
and so on. Right before I was supposed to go
back to school, I was playing poker at Foxwoods and
I just got this idea and I just messaged my
friend and I said we were talking about doing a
trip together. And I was like, why don't we go
to Europe? And he was like, okay, I'm in. How
old were you at this point? I was twenty one? Yeah,
I was yeah, so he was in. You know. We
was impulsive, obviously, and our idea was to do Paris.
I think we went to Switzerland for a couple of days,
and then Amsterdam was the final stop.
Speaker 2: And Rome.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Rom, Sorry, wasn't Switzerland. Okay, we flew into room.
You know better than me this, This is really embarrassing. Okay,
so no, we flew into Rome. This is what happened.
We went to Rome, We went to room for a
couple of days. Then we made our way over to
Paris and we were having so much fun that we
decided to fly our friend into Paris to meet us.
We booked him his ticket. We didn't tell him about it.
We just booked him a ticket. We sent him an
email that just said travel light and had his itinerary
and he met us there and we had these like signs,
you know, the signs like the drivers get at the airport.
We made signs for him. We had like sunglasses, and
we like wore suits and stuff, and we picked them
upt the airport and went to Paris for a couple
of days, and then with him we went to Amsterdam.
Amsdam is obviously amazing city. When you're twenty two, it's
like super fun. And the last night we went to
a place called Supper Club, which is like kind of
a dining slash show experience type thing. The three of
us went and we got pretty drunk, quite drunk. I
think I was maybe throwing rocks outside or something like that.
There's some It was not like a great night. But
by the end of it we go to hotel room
and I'm supposed to fly back to Boston the next
morning to complete my last year of college. And obviously
I slept through this flight. I mean, this was probably
top five drunk this night of my life. I don't
know how I ever thought I was going to make
a nine am flight wake up and then I have
It's like now it's ten am. I've missed a flight.
I have this panic attack and I'm like, okay, guys,
I missed my flight. What am I going to do?
And they're like they're hungover. They're like, look, I think
we're going to stay here, like at least a few
more days, and you can either stay with us or
you can go home. So I had this like existential crisis,
but I wasn't really that motivated to go back to
school anyway. It was like one of those things where
I was spending more time on the golf course or
watching high stakes poker poker after dark than I was
like devoting any time to school. So I guess I
just sort of came to terms with who I was
in that moment, and I decided to stay. And then
we ended up staying for three months, and we had
we were short on cash, so we had like money,
but you know, we was in our bank accounts and
it was hard to access it while we were there.
We were short on physical euros, and no one would
rent a place to us for three months without us
paying all the rent upfront because we're just a bunch
of twenty two year old kids and we're from another country,
and they didn't, so so we ended up having to
go to the casino with the three of us and
like try to spin it up the first couple of
days just so we could get the place. And you know,
one of our friends ended up playing in the PLO game.
And I wish I was courageous enough to try the
PILO game back then, because there was a two four
NoHo limit that went every day, and then a five
to ten PLO and the five ten PLO looked incredible,
but I didn't know PLO at all. But he want
a bunch of money in the PLO that got us
enough to pay the rent. We had a little bit
left over to grind with and we made it work.
Speaker 2: That's such an incredible story. Yeah, And it's such a
such a great memory of like an inflection point into
where poker became a huge part of your life.
Speaker 1: I think they had that. If I had to say
when did I turn pro, it would be that morning,
because that was when I decided, because I had this
whole backup plan. I was going to go back to school.
I had a job line up. I had met a
guy on a cruise ship who were playing blackjack on
the cruise ship and He just saw the way I
was working the chips and the decisions, and he saw
that my brain was good with this stuff, and he said,
what do you do for a living? I said, I
play poker, but I'm in school and he said, well,
how would you like to be a day trader? So
I guess it was just a couple months before Amsterdam.
I had gone and done a five to seven days
something like that internship in New York, and they had
basically said, look, if you go back to school, you
get better grades and you quit poker, we have a
job for you. And it was a pretty cool opportunity.
It was like they said, like the top guy in
the firm was making three million a year, but maybe
the tenth guy was only making fifty k year. So
it was one of those things where if you were
good at it and you worked hard, there was a
huge upside. But that morning, when I didn't end up
going back to college, it was pretty clear I was
not going down that route. So I'd say, that's like
when I became a pro.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know you're really tight with your mom and
you already alluded it to it, like traveling to Africa
when a sun is in a good university and has
prospects of a career where the upside is clearly very
very high, and you're a smart guy. How does the
conversation go saying like no, no, no, I just you know,
we spun it up at hold them and we're paying
three months rent up front. Yeah, I'm now a poker player.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, so I had I've an aunt and uncle
i'm really close with as well, and I have my mom,
and I had to tell all three of them that
that I was not going back to school, and it
was definitely a difficult conversation at the time. But I
think as I've come to have success, like everyone's kind
of recognized that it's it's been a good move. I
think my you know, my mom at this point is
kind of come to terms with it. But I always
thought that I would be a good teacher, that I
could excel in some other jobs. And of course now
I do some other things too, with commentating and coaching,
So it's kind of good to to have a little
bit of diversity to what I do rather than just
be a full time poker player forever.
Speaker 2: When someone works on that nine to five there there
is very sort of basic conversation with with parents and
friends because you know, everyone has a job. Yeah, but
then when you take a career outside of that, that's
very non traditional. There's a lot of hand hand holding
when it comes to you know, explaining people stuff or
not explaining them things, or maybe giving them more insights
or less insights. How did you balance that as you
sort of progressed and then you know, culminating with them
maybe the deep run in the main where you can
maybe sort of show off in a different way that like,
I think I made the right decision. Did you have
to sort of work that out and figure that.
Speaker 1: Out just in terms of like how, I well, how
you had.
Speaker 2: You know, your mom and your aunt and uncle come
to terms with the fact that you know, this is
something that they did not expect.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I think the tournament results helped, right, So, like
when they could see the tournament result in twenty thirteen,
because it's funny you can win consistently in cash games
but they can't really see it, and seeing that was like, wow, Okay,
he can actually make some real money here. And I
think just time as well helped everyone kind of understand
that it was what was making me happy and was
working for me and that it's not a lot of
people just think of it as gambling and they have
certain connotations in their head. I mean, we've all anyone
who works in the gambling world in any capacity, I'm
sure has has had judgment from some people. But yeah,
just kind of time and consistency.
Speaker 2: So then you put in the time and you are
consistent and you work really hard. The score that you
had and you didn't have all of yourself, how did
that change things? Was there certain stakes in order to
try and you did. Did it motivate you to work harder?
I know that your tournament career didn't really take off
until later, so it almost seems as though it was like,
you know, back to normal after that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was just back to normal, to be honest.
I did have a phase actually online where I was
a tournament player, but I was never really a full
time live tournament player again until post COVID. I just
always found cash games were fun and engaging, and I
was pretty good at them, and I started I guess
after that twenty thirteen score, maybe I got more into
PLO and a little bit more into mixed games, but
I had already been playing some of both of those things,
so it wasn't maybe as monumental. It was certainly validating,
and in terms of like the outside world, you know,
it was validating with family and all that. But I
don't think it changed things as much as you might think.
I didn't really move up too much in stakes. I
was kind of just I just had like a cushier
bankroll now to play cash games. And it's interesting because
that it didn't really make me think I was a
great tournament player by any means. And I still think
the main event is a unicorn tournament, so like, I
don't think the skill set to be a great just
no one at tournament player necessarily always translates over to
the best main event players. I would sometimes take, like,
let's say, a live cash player who plays two five
or five ten and has like a ton of experience
playing with the types of players you're going to play
with in these fields, I would take them over some
high stakes online tournament players. And I know I'll get
pushed back from that from the high stakes community, and
I understand that the high stakes players are more technical
and more studied and probably going to be a lot
better in ICM. In some of those late game situations.
But I do think that there is kind of a
specific skill set for the main that maybe is a
little bit more transferable to cash games, and so maybe
that's why, you know, having a score in the main,
I just felt like it was like almost like another
cash game in a way.
Speaker 2: You know, I've been fortunate enough to do commentary with
you on PLO, and I'll be the first to admit that,
you know, I love to do the play by play,
yet you know, my PLO knowledge definitely is is just
good enough to ask some good questions every now and then,
but to me to sort of hear you say all
this and then the progression You may to play all
the games, win a stud bracelet win mixed game events
like all over the place, and still have sort of
this humble approach to your approach versus how some of
the top pros are doing it. It almost seems like
there's some disconnect between you fully appreciating how good you
are at the game.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know. I mean, I think I'm confidence
is one of the things that can come and go.
So I've been in kind of a rougher stretch, i'd say,
for the last year year and a half. I do
still think I'm very good. I think my a game
is very good, and I'm just trying to find more
ways to play it. But I would say I've always
had a unique approach to the game. I would say
that I definitely believe in study, and I believe in
solidifying your technical skills, and maybe I could do a
little bit more of that some of the time, but
I think there's so much more to playing high level
poker than that, And so it's that classic classic like
technical versus x plointative. Obviously the best players do both.
There's other categories to like table presence and just like
mental game and all that stuff, and the best players
have all of it. But I find my results are
best when I'm having fun and thinking creatively, and so yeah,
I will make plays that maybe are very outside of
the box, particularly in an event like the main event.
Speaker 2: The runs in hold them have sort of paid the bills,
if you will, and then you have obviously you have
a p low bracelet also. But the love and the
passion for mixed games is not the I guess, from
a poker sense, the recommended approach, because there's less volume,
they are smaller, smaller, prize pools, and there's also usually
a well studied competition, especially at the highest stakes. Is
it just how much you're enjoying those games in an
atmosphere that drives you to those games, or is there
something else?
Speaker 1: First and foremost come from I love playing those different games.
I love the stud games in particular. They're so fun.
They're the only games where you can see part of
your opponent's hand. There are games of partial information, and
if you're paying attention and really like studying the way
people play their upcards and then also remembering the dead cards,
you can gain a pretty big advantage. But yeah, I
don't know that I would say that the competition is
harder in mixed games. You know, yes, there are some
very well studied players, but for instance, something like twenty
five k horse versus something like a twenty five k
Nolimit event, I think you could argue that the horse
event is going to be a bit softer just because
the no limit players at the top are are so
well studied and there's so many of them, and there
are fewer people at least that I think are taking
that super disciplined, rigorous approach with mixed games. I mean this.
For instance, this ten K eight game that just went on.
It was good timing, it was right around the main event,
but it was plenty of complete unknowns and it was
a very nice field. No result for me, but you
can't be a results already to win them all.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Is there perhaps too much name respect in mixed games?
Probably because the thing for me, and you know, I'll
call myself poker media, even though I find it a
bit of a tough term, we often hang on to
all these names and they are always in the mixgin furnaments.
You pick up any result of a ten K mix
game and it's just all sounds very impressive. Yeah, Are
are the names just not living up to the hype?
Speaker 1: What? Yeah, I wouldn't necessarily say. What I would say
is this, right, is people have their idea of who
the best one hundred players are, who the best twenty
five mix game players are. They have this idea in
their head. Maybe they don't have a Google sheet with rankings,
but they have a general idea. Right. But on any
given day, a quote unquote bad player can play better
than a quote unquote good player. So if you're not
bringing your this is what I've always give the example
of I think Jeremy Osmas as someone brings at least
his B game to the table pretty much every time
he sits down, and I think that's few and far between.
So I think there are some great players, but you
might catch them on their C game, or you might
be not as good of a player, but you're on
a run and you're on your A game. So I
think the rankings are kind of in lu And yeah,
I mean if the names you're talking about, I'm sure
a lot of them are definitely just great players. But
some of them also maybe they're backed and they're just
they've been playing these tournaments forever and they're buried. You know,
you never really know what someone's results are. Everyone's gonna
have their own opinions on who the best players are,
who the worst players are. That's what's great about the game,
and that's what keeps everyone coming back.
Speaker 2: It'd be way way better to go viral if I
asked you to name all the terrible players.
Speaker 1: I don't I don't know if we should do that.
Would that would do well? I mean off the record.
Speaker 2: But instead what I'll do is, you know, reference for
fifty K run this year, which of course iconic event. Yeah,
has so much history to it. It's the only event
in mixed games that has the kind of history. But
I'm curious, you know this this year Benny Glasser one,
ri A second, Idy got third. Who are some of
the players in that type of atmosphere, that kind of
arena that really stand out to you, that impress you
and perhaps point out some things about them or their
game that you remember.
Speaker 1: I'll start with those three, I guess. I think Benny
is without a doubt one of the best overall mixed
game players in the world. You know, he's proven it
time and time again. I think this is his ninth bracelet.
I think that's right, n Y, Yeah, it's up anyway,
it's it's a big number. He plays online live clearly
just very well studied, very very accomplished player. Josh Aria,
I think, is someone who was less technical than some
of the other guys, but just has a tremendous feel
for the game. So just really really good instincts and
very competitive person. And you know, somebody I really enjoy
hanging out with a friend of mine. And then Phil Ivy,
I mean, yeah, he's the goat, right, so's it all
started with Phil Ivey. I mean, he was my first
hero when I was watching you know, poker back and
I went to a boarding school actual for the last
years of high school, and I just remember being in
like our lounge watching World Series of Poker two thousand
and three Phil Ivy with the Steve Francis Jersey, and
you know, I'd look at that as kind of like
why I wanted to get into poker. So yeah, it's
it's cool that he's back here competing because he he
kind of goes on and off somedy, he'll take time off.
It seems like he's he's locked in again and ready
to really compete a high level and poker's just better
when he's in the mix. And then so other players
in the fifty k that I think are I mean,
there's so many, right, It's I mean, Nick, are.
Speaker 2: There are there specific things you see or you know,
is it too like you know, he makes one extra
bet in some spots, or is it perhaps something more
holistic on how they approach that type of setting that
makes them stand out because you mentioned, you know, Aria
and Ivy, they are coming from that fuel background. The
results have been super impressive, But is there a way
to perhaps quantify feel through the lens of how you
see the game.
Speaker 1: To me, someone who has great feel is just acting
purely off of instinct and they're not fighting themselves on
a decision, right, Because if you take a technical player,
especially someone who mostly plays online, and you sit them
down live, they I might think to themselves, this guy's
doing something that feels weird to me. I think I
need to play an exploitative style to adjust to that
decision that this player is making. But then they have
to go through this whole brain solve in their head
of well, if he's five percent two wide here, then
how many pips down can I go for value on
my three bets? And it takes up a lot of
brain energy trying to solve all that, whereas somebody like
Ivy or the Grinder, they're not thinking on that level.
They're just reacting based off of instincts, based off of
all the poker they play in their life, and they're
making they're often coming to actually better conclusions on how
to exploit without any of that internal struggle. So to me,
that's what a great field player is.
Speaker 2: It's it's honestly the most fascinating topic for me and
poker to talk about field players because it's so relevant
these days where everyone is studying so much. Yeah, because
back in the day, feel was the only way to win.
When we watch we all watch the same stuff. When
you watch that stuff, it's all about making reads. Yeah,
I feel like it comes up in conversation making reads
or you know, trying to you know, use feel or
use instinct. But at the same time, the emphasis is
so much on the studying part. How do you sharpen
your feel?
Speaker 1: Hessee? I think sharpening your feel is something you do
away from the table in a non studious way. So
whether it's for me, it's doing things that put me
in flow state, like skiing or hiking or golfing, you know,
anything where I'm not on my phone. To me, that's
how you sharpen your feel. It's it's kind of a
thing that can't be taught though, in my opinion, So
that's why you can be a great poker mind and
you know what like And again it's not to take
anything away from the from that type of player, because
feel has its limitations. And this happened to me. I
was crushing plo cash for many years and then you
know around twenty eight ten, twenty nineteen, I found myself
when when I wasn't the best player at the table,
when there were a couple more studied players, I was
struggling against them because they're obviously much more balanced and
they're not giving away as much and I was a
little bit technically raw. So then I started studying a lot.
And I think studying is still really good of your
field player because it helps hone your baselines. But can
you teach feel? I don't know. I mean, you can
definitely do things, probably mindset stuff, exercise, all that stuff's
going to help you. But I think some people inherently
have more of that quality than other people. Just like
some people are inherently going to be better at studying
the technical side, there's some people who for whom their
brain cannot process the technical side. Obviously, the best players
probably have the brain that can kind of do a
little bit of both. I mean, the classic example for
me would be Mateos, who has just immaculate feel, but
is also extremely diligent and well studied and has that
like logical side of his brain going, and then on
top of that has amazing table presence and does everything
I mean, he just he literally does everything you want
to do to succeed as a as a high sticks
poker player, and that's why he's at the top.
Speaker 2: What's stopping you from being there and doing that?
Speaker 1: That's a good question, I would say. So I got
engaged recently, and you know, we haven't decided we're gonna
have kids, but it's a possibility. We have a couple
of dogs, you know. Yeah, No, i'd like to it's
balancing life with poker. I think to really get to
the very top, you need to be completely kind of
obsessive with poker. And I am sure some of these
guys who are the top also have families, so I
can't just use that as a crutch. But I have
sort of shifted some of my It's not to say
I would never want to try and do that. I
think in No Limit it's fair to say I would
never really try to get to that level just because
I feel like I'm at a big enough disadvantage in
terms of like the highest stakes no limit stuff like
playing against the Mattaoss and the Chidwicks and all the
guys who have been doing it for so long. But
I do want to be the best mixed game tournament
player or the best PLO tournament player, and there's probably
more I could be doing behind the scenes to get
up to that speed. But then you know, I'm also
mixing that with kind of a newfound love for commentating.
Speaker 2: So commentating is really fun as someone who's done a
lot of it. I don't know why they keep asking me,
but I love it again. But one of the things
that I love about doing commentary with you, it's almost
as if I'm in a coaching session, but it's kind
of very natural. You're not laying it on too thick,
but you always seem to have a response or a reaction,
and your mind works so quick, and you know you
and I have done PLO, so that's my sort of
point of reference. And I've watched a lot of your
trident and stuff. But what I find so interesting is
that when I listen to you, I wonder, you know,
what else is there that you would need to add
in order to get better, because it seems as though
you sort of always have the answer. Is there then
a disconnect between application and what you know when the
information has just presented you in that way?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think I think Alex Fox and tweet something recently,
or said something recently in an interview, whatever it was
about how the difference between a great player and a
world class player, or a good player and a great player,
whatever it was, is just all execution. And I believe
that for sure. You know, I think it's way easier
from the booth when you can see the cards and
you know there's always some amount of variance. But I
try not to harp on that. I try not to
use that as a crutch. Ever. I know, for a
while one of my leaks was when I got short
on chips, I didn't have the same commitment to making
every decision as well as I could as when i've
I've always been very comfortable playing a big stack. I
know that some people have the opposite, where they're actually
very comfortable grinding a short stack because they the decisions
are kind of clean, and then they get like uncomfortable,
they feel pressure when they have a big stack. That's
never been the case for me. I always want to
have a big stack. So maybe this year I found
myself even kind of leaning back into some old traits
where when I get short on chips, I'm just not
quite as patient as I need to be. And you know,
for whatever reason, this has been kind of a flat
WSP with the exception of that PPC cash. It's been
disappointing because I played all most of the ten case
certainly not all of them, but you know, to not
cash any ten case so far is not great and
I have a pretty good record in those over the
years before that, so I have to maybe just you know,
reflect on it after the series, although still in the
main event. I got some one fifty k in the
main after yesterday, so maybe if I can just save
it for that one, then I'll forget about all those
other ten.
Speaker 2: Case at least, you know, you know how to do
the trick in that event.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I mean I looked at my table drop
for tomorrow. Looks great, So I feel pretty good about the.
Speaker 2: Main Is there a room for adrenaline in decision making
in the stakes that you play? And is adrenaline something
that you can either sort of accept or or step
away from? Is it an advantage or disadvantage? I feel
like it's not often talked about enough as to how
it really feels to be in big decisions.
Speaker 1: Yeah, adrenaline is crazy, right, because it just keeps going
up as you get deeper and deeper into the tournament,
I feel personally more locked in the further along I
am in a tournament, So I think I thrive off
of adrenaline.
Speaker 2: Is what is adrenaline?
Speaker 1: Then?
Speaker 2: In that context, is it perhaps a heightened sense of
focus or is it something else that happens when you're
in that zone?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think I would describe it as a heightened
sense of focus and alertness. I just feel more. I mean,
maybe I'm misunderstanding exactly what adrenaline is, but to me,
when I have adrenaline, I am more awake, but also
more common a way, right That does that sound right?
I don't know it sounds yeah, and I'm not, but yeah, yeah,
Nature's adderall. There was this Nelly Korda, the LPG golfer.
She had this great quote about They asked her, like,
you know what she did when she won the tournament?
Did she go out and party? And she said, no,
you know what it was. I just went and laid
in my hotel room with my phone on the side,
and I just relaxed and I just like fell asleep.
She said it. She said, it's the craziest thing when
you win a tournament because it's like you have this
surge of adrenaline that has just built up as the
tournament goes on, and when you win, it just all
leaves your body and you almost feel like this happened
to me After I got third in the main I
felt like a little empty for a few days, maybe
even like maybe a few months. For being honest, there
were like some sort of dark periods internally because that
excitement has just been building and then when it no
matter what the result is, if you win the tournament,
even there's like a crash after that. So I don't know.
Speaker 2: I love how you brought in the main event run
in twenty nineteen because I wrote an article and I
talked to you right after you busted the title that
I used was in disbelief and overwhelmed Alex Livings the
finish just third in the main event. Obviously, unless you win,
you're going to have some sort of what if going
through your mind or at least reflection to the point
as to you know, what could have been different? But
take take me back to the moment where you know
that it's over because you're in a two week run,
low on sleep, you're eating when you can, and you're
trying to both focus and analyze while the brakes are
too short to somethings even use the bathroom. And then
all of a sudden, that all comes to a head
when the final card hits and it's over. Is it
sort of like someone turns the lights on or turns
them off.
Speaker 1: Yeah, this bracelet ceremony in the background is gonna be
a little bit distracting. But I don't totally remember the
exact moment when I bust. I know I got Ace
jack in against Ace Queen standard sort of spot the
hand before that. It was like a few hands before that,
I played this big pot where I got all in
on a Queen ten seven five two flush straw board
with kings. I don't want to say I regret my decision,
but Dario did this thing where I bet the turn.
I think it was like Queen ten seven, I bet
the flop small, he called out of the big blind
turn five double flush straw he checks, I bet pot.
He moves in for maybe like three and a half
x my bet, and it's a computer call, and it's like,
for sure a call in theory, and I didn't want
a slow roll, and I and I just kind of
called instantly. But he did this thing when he went
all in, where he did this like triangle motion with
his fingers, like signifying the all in button, and like
something in my brain said, this is just really strong,
like because obviously I'm hoping to be up against a
combo draw, not two pair, or hoping to sometime be
up against the Queen. But it felt strong, and so
I don't know if I could go back. Maybe I
just give myself a moment to think there and not
worry about nitrolling somebody when you're playing for a six
million dollars pay jump. But yeah, and then the actual
bust out hand I think was pretty standard and there
was a bit of a blur. I remember I did
an interview with you and a bunch of other people
asking questions, a big crowd. Yeah, and then we went
to top Golf and had a good time. But I
still felt pretty good at that point. But like it's
like a few days later, you're just you're missing being
in the moment, right. We all want to be in
that in that moment, that's what we play for. So
when it's over, it feels a little weird. So as
the version of the ceremony is going on, and hopefully
that didn't impact the audio of this.
Speaker 2: Hit adds to it, you know, Okay, like in this,
in this moment.
Speaker 1: And we're really here, I should put my WSP hoodie
back on.
Speaker 2: Please, where's your where are your bracelets?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Exactly, Yeah, yeah, I should have.
Speaker 2: The thing about this your main Event final table is
that it was a unique lineup as I look back
on it now, with sort of a blend between players
that are accustomed to different stakes, players that might be underrated,
players that might be seen as the favorite. And I
think that you and and Dario were probably those two
players coming into that final table. Did you have a
sense of like, this is mine to win?
Speaker 1: It was weird. I mean I had gone into the
day before or thirty fifth of thirty six, I believe
something like that. I was second last, and Chips ran
amazing obviously beg fifth of nine. So at that point,
just being there was like kind of shocking and incredible,
and I don't know that I was thinking, I mean,
of course you want to win, but now I'm just thinking, okay,
I'm in the middle of the pack, Like how do
we play this stack? Like, just thinking about it, more
like that, I would say probably Jario Hossein and myself
were the three best players I would I would think,
And so we got for a second and third. It
wasn't super surprising, but you know, you never know what's
gonna happen in a final table, right, So certain by
no means are the best players guaranteed to do well?
Or by no means are the big stacks guaranteed to
do well?
Speaker 2: What does four million dollars due to someone's life?
Speaker 1: Yeah, and again I'd sold some action, but it was
in taxes, but it was huge. It was huge. I
bought some real estate, and now I was obviously comfortable
to play much higher stakes. And I kind of took
a little time off that summer, and then I was
wondering what I wanted to do poker wise, But it
wasn't really until after COVID I started. I had a
huge score at the win actually twenty twenty two, I
got third in like the win main kind of thing
for seven hundred and fifty K, and that kind of
reignited my desire to play high stakes. And after that point,
I said, you know what, what if I tried battling these
guys in the studio, which is something I'd always considered,
like those guys were in a different league, But I said,
why don't I just try battling. In the first series
I went there, I think I cashed four or five times,
including in some nelimit events, and I felt pretty comfortable, honestly,
And then that sort of led to me, Now I
had a newfound purpose to chase higher stakes and to
play more tournaments.
Speaker 2: So then there's a point where you're asked to do
a commentary, and I'm curious, what's it like to be
asked to do that, and is there perhaps a sense
of feeling like you need to perform and not let
down those that watch this that are also really great players,
Because it can sometimes feel like there was a pressure.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it can, and I try not to feel. But
it's kind of equated to kind of like being on
a stream table. You know, all the eyes are on you,
and if you do something quote unquote wrong, somebody might
say something to you. I could maybe be even more
honest with my opinions in the moment, but you don't
want to be disrespectful to players, and so I try to.
You know, I will disagree with the play sometimes, but
I try to at least see where they're coming from,
and you know, not just be full on berating people.
But yeah, it's a fine line, you know you want
to be. I think Shulman just does it great. You know.
He he gives insight in a way where you can
kind of the way he talks, you know, you can
kind of interpret things multiple ways, and he the language
he uses is excellent. So I use him as kind
of a role model for somebody who is just a
great analyst in the booth, in the way that they
conduct themselves professionally while still being entertaining, you know, providing insights. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I mean there's so many elite commentators out there. I
think you are among those as well. Appreciate that, and
it's just fun to listen to someone who is able
to almost like boil it down without dumbing it down. Yeah,
you know, you still keep a sense of like the
high levelness of what people are watching. Because oftentimes when
I do commentary, and not to be too reflective, but
when there's all a bunch of great players at the table,
I'm like, who am I to say? Yeah, Like who
am I to say literally anything?
Speaker 1: And I think that's yeah, that's something to think about, Like,
you know, how much you want to just let the
players and the play do the talking, versus how much
I want to do the talking, And it can depend
based on the composition of the table. I can maybe
depend based on my own expertise in the game. I
think one of the things I try to do is
offer commentary that can provide insight to strong players without
scaring off weak players. So I try to be and
I love when Allie and I going to the segues.
He's the best at it. I mean, I like talking
about things that aren't poker when I'm commentating. I think
it's fun. Sometimes chat will start saying, come on, guys,
focus on the poker, and you know, we'll get back there.
But I think if you're just dry and monotonous in
talking only about technical decisions, that's not what people want
to see. Maybe if you're going too into the weeds,
that's also not what they want to see. So it's
all about trying to find those those balances and kind
of meet in the middle on a lot of things.
Speaker 2: As someone who's on both sides. You know, you play,
you do commentary. You see the live chat, which is
obviously huge as well, because that's like instant feedback. Yeah,
what's what's the state of poker from a I guess
fan perspective? Because I feel as though, correct me if
I'm wrong, we're highly saturated with different things that we
could be watching, and at the same time, are we
focused on the right things as far as what do
we show and how do we show it? What's your
view on that?
Speaker 1: Well, I think unquestionably everyone wants to see more mixed
games at WSP, and from what I'm told, that's in
the works for next year, so I look forward to that.
Outside of that, you know, I think there's there's different
things for different people. So you have these these high
stakes cash games that have gotten quite big. A lot
of them are in LA and that kind of thing,
and you know, there's certain people that love watching those.
It's not for me, but I completely understand why people
would want to watch those. You have the vloggers and
the streamers. I think that's a really cool addition to
the space. And then in terms of tournaments, I personally
would like to see more earlier day coverage, So something
like the PPC I think you should do from day
one because it really gives people a good foundational understanding
of mixed games. Of course, the main event from day one,
which they do. I'd like to see more, say a
PLO event like a fifty K one hunter KPLO do
a little bit of day one coverage or do a
full day two coverage, because the problem with final tables
is that they can be very ICM driven. You see
a lot of tighter folds and you just see a
lot of more careful play. So I think covering early
levels you get to see kind of like how the
games are actually played, how they're played in cash games,
how they're played without all this ICM focus, and it's
more exciting, more entertaining, and you know, deeper stack depths.
It's just always a little bit better to me.
Speaker 2: For someone who focuses on mixed game and PLO. Obviously
that's not a thing in the cash game world unless
you can play in Bobby's room and you know, similar
games that are happening in Vegas perhaps, and I think PLO,
as far as I know, might even be more difficult
to get a high stakes game going that's truly high
stakes and that truly is available to people to play.
Are there enough opportunities for players like yourself to make
a living not having to constantly, you know, fight for
small edges.
Speaker 1: I dabble in a few private games here and there.
I'm definitely not like one of these people who's always
trying to get into every private game. But if I
have a friend who's running one and I can get in,
I'll certainly play that sometimes. And then for public games,
I think mix is actually an okay spot because you
have there's a three hundred and six hour game in town.
There's eighty one sixty games, so there's actually forty eighty.
There's quite a few different levels in town that you
can play publicly. I don't play the super high stakes
like the Bobby's Room stuff anyway. So and then for PLO, yeah,
I think there's pilo's kind of booming in other parts
of the country, maybe more so than Vegas.
Speaker 2: Is that an ambition for you to play more like
high stakes like live PLO, because I feel like the
tournaments are booming. But I mean this is also just
from my perspective. You don't hear much about high stakes
PLO cash because it's all private.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so maybe I from just a making money perspective,
I should be looking more into trying to get into
more private games, but there's a whole bunch of politics
and stuff that I don't necessarily want to involve myself with,
and so I kind of just stick to the games
I can already get into, and I don't have a
huge ambition to play like the super highest Pero Cash
games or anything like that.
Speaker 2: Bobby's Room is a place that I have to mention
it has so much lower It's something that speaks to
the imagination. Has it ever been an ambition of you, yeah,
to make it there, and perhaps maybe still.
Speaker 1: It has been, and there was a time when I
considered going in and check taking it. But to me,
it's just such a big jump, right because I've played
as high as four hundred eight hundre actual as hig
as five hundred one K limit, but Bobby's Room is
usually at least fifteen hundred and three K, and often
more like three K six K. It's just it's huge.
I mean, you're swinging. You can easily swing two or
three und k in a session, and yeah, it's pretty
easy to do that. And I just don't know, I
don't have the ambition right now to play that big.
I don't have the role to play that big right now,
so I look at tournaments is a great opportunity, and
I can play some some cash games as well, can commentate,
do some coaching. Kind of dabbling in a lot of
things right now, which you can argue would maybe impede
my if I wanted to just be the best at
one thing, it might be better to be a bit
more singularly focused. But I kind of enjoy a lot
of the different things I'm dabbling in, and I think
that's half a battle too, is making sure you're staying
fresh and having fun.
Speaker 2: People that watch this might think like, oh, you know
this guy with a college in Boston, and you mentioned
like a lot of things happening in the US, but
proud Nova Scotia is is on your Instagram bio. Yeah,
I want to pivot to like, you know, family and
sort of know where you're from. And I find that
really interesting because first off, I don't think there's many
pocal pros from Nova Scotia. And I'm also curious why
you feel that's important to mention.
Speaker 1: Well, I still live in Nova Scotia, so I got
recently engaged and my fiance Julia and I live in
her hometown, like where she grew up in New Glasgow,
which is about an hour and a half from Halifax,
which is the big city in the area. So and
I've spent huge chunk of my life in Nova Scotia.
Even when I was living in Vegas, I was going
back to Nova Scotia for at least a month every summer.
It's a very very special place to me. I hate
that WSP is this time of year. You know, there's
that one year it was in November during COVID and
that was amazing because I could spend the whole summer
in Nova Scotia. So, you know, as much as I travel,
I do still live in Nova Scotia. It means a
lot to me. The people are great, It's where I
was raised, it's you know, home is always going to
feel special, I think in a certain way. I love
the food there, I love the summers there.
Speaker 2: So for those watching, who I mean most people have
never considered probably going there. If they're visiting, what kind
of experience are they getting and what's the Alex Livingston
pitch on Nova Scotia.
Speaker 1: Well, if you're a golfer, you definitely want to go
play Cabot Links and Cabot Cliffs. I actually have a
rental property up there and people that is when people
tell me they've been in Nova Scotia. If they're a golfer,
that's probably the reason they've been there. But if you're
not a golfer, I would say, just go for the seafood,
the people, the music. You'd want to go see Halifax
and see all the restaurants and breweries there, and then
also make it up to Cape Breton, which is kind
of an island on the northeast tip of Nova Scotia,
and it's just got rugged beauty. You can drive around
the Cabbot Trail and do hikes and see that. And
then we've got vineyards, and we've got the South Shore
which has you know, you can go out on a sailboat.
It's just an amazing time. Some of the cruise ships there,
but it's an amazing time to visit between you know,
June and October. I'd say so.
Speaker 2: Then, with the family life and maybe being a bit
more home than focused and being engaged, do you think
that long term poker will always fit into that? Have
you ever considered stepping away?
Speaker 1: I can't see myself stepping away because I don't know
what I would do, and I do think I'm pretty
deeply ingrained in the poker world. I could see a
world in which maybe we end up spending more time
somewhere else that's not Nova Scotia, And then still I
would still always want to go back there in summers. Yeah,
because it's been a little bit challenging for you know,
where Julia's home all the time and I'm commentating and
I'm here for WSP and we have two dogs, and
she's actually fostering a third dog, Josh, right now. So
if any of thee wants, you'll have three dogs. If
anyone wants a dog, Josh is available. Yea, we may
you never tell. We're y. So it's a little harder
for her to come travel with me. But I think
down the road, maybe we spend more time somewhere else. Uh.
But you know, I always love being there, and I
think it's good for me too. I think that, like
I always look at my I see you're wearing a
whoop as well, and like I've got one too in
the recovery scores when I'm in when I'm home in
Nova Scotia, I get into the nineties regularly, and when
I'm here, I rarely get above seventy. Have you found
that too, like different you do well in different places.
Speaker 2: For me, it's been about like, where's my focus?
Speaker 1: Lie?
Speaker 2: Yeah, like WSP of course we're here every day. Yeah,
it might be Leslie, you're not as routine that you're
used to. And you know, when I was training for
a big race, I noticed that even though I'm training
much harder, I'm also recovering harder. Yeah, because you're so
focused on that. Yeah, it makes sense, and here you're
sort of guided by the day to day at the WSOP.
Speaker 1: I think I just have trouble relaxing in Vegas, and
I'm much more relaxed when I'm home in Nova Scotia,
So it's always important for me to spend time there
to recharge. The issue is it's harder to work, you know,
I have to either play online or to coaching. There
is a couple live I can get into, but they're
pretty small.
Speaker 2: So one thing that I find interesting is I'm also
from a really small town. But I've never won millions
of dollars, so no one ever comes knocking on my
door for any help. But you have. What's it like
to become a celebrity or or at least become known
for being the guy who won millions of dollars when
you're when you're from a place where I feel as though,
you know, if if there's a garbage can knocked over,
you know, people will find out about it, because small
things become much bigger.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but I think people are people are just very
kind in Nova Scotia, So I did. I did not
get inundated with a bunch of people asking to borrow
money or invest in businesses. There were a couple here
and there, but that wasn't something that I had to
deal with by any means. I was able to help
people a little bit during COVID because you know, it
happened shortly after my main bank and there were people
that were struggling. So I was able to help the
local community a little bit, which which felt great. I
don't think anything really changed in my day to day life,
and I don't think people really treated me differently, And
I hope that I didn't treat people differently, and I
think that sort of speaks to what Nova Scotia's value
system is. You know, it's not a materialistic place at all.
So people are happy for me and congratulations, but it
doesn't really change my interactions with people. And I think
that is. Yeah, you'd have to just go meet people
from Nova Scotia. I mean, you're from the Netherlands, right,
so I'm sure people are pretty similar to that there.
I feel like it's pretty down to earth people there
as well.
Speaker 2: In the Netherlands that people often say that if your
head's above the tall grass, you know, they'll get chopped down.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I like that.
Speaker 2: It's also a situation where people in the Netherlands. I'm
not sure how it is where you're from, but in
the Netherlands they almost are telling you to just act normal,
even if you celebrate success. So it's almost hard to
be proud sometimes because people see sort of outward success
as like bragging or you know, you're trying to flex.
Speaker 1: I could see that. I think maybe there's something similar
with that. I certainly. I would say like a lot
of the wealthiest people that I know or I'm familiar
with in Halifax, they don't act like it or dress
like it, or you know, have the flashy cars. It's
very different than what you might have here in Vegas.
It's kind of a very materialistic city kind of my definition, right,
not to say that there aren't great communities of down
to earth people, and I mean it's Vegas has just
never been my place that I would want to sort
of settle down long term. It's never been.
Speaker 2: The outdoors here is underrated though.
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, no, and the golf and the I completely understand
why people like living in Vegas. I have a lot
of good friends who live here, and all the reasons
make sense, but it just doesn't The city doesn't draw
me in that way.
Speaker 2: Of course. A few small, small final things before I
let you go, And it's been a really interesting conversation.
You mentioned on a different podcast that you were considering
writing a book about the poker lifestyle, not the strategy
what I mean. I'm not sure if you're still thinking
about that, but what sort of ideas that you have
when you had those thoughts, and you know, give us
some more context.
Speaker 1: Well, I think Garrett Adelstein beat me to the punch now, right.
I was going to write the first book about the
poker lifestyle, and he just wrote one and he's promoting it.
I don't know. I was going to tell stories like
the time that I lost forty K playing beer pong
in twenty nine, when I had seventeen K to my
name and stuff like that.
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, you can't just gloss over that and
not tell the story. I mean, that's insane. Set the
scene for us.
Speaker 1: I mean, we had a rental house with ten or
twelve guys. I was twenty two, and one of the
guys wanted to bet on everything, and he kind of
told me at the beginning of the summer, He's like, look,
if the number gets high, we will settle for something less.
Don't worry about it. He was obviously kind of like
hustling me, and he was better than me. Made a
lot of things, and so we ended up playing beer pong,
and it started off at one hundred dollars or tw
hundred dollars a game, and we just kept doubling, and
eventually somehow we had I was thirty two K in
the whole, I don't know how, and he gave me
four to one on the next game, so I was
either going to get even for or I was going
to owe forty K. And we made all the shots too,
and we made all the shots. Did everyone know that
the bets were happening, yeah, but it was just me
and the guy betting big. The other guys might have
had one hundred bucks whatever. We made the shots, so
they had rebuttal they had to try to but we
had three cups left. Their first guy misses, so the
next guy to send it into overtime had to make
three cups in a row. And this is the guy
I was betting with. He made three in a row.
We went to overtime. We lost in overtime. I actually
cried that night, I mean I was this was all
my money and more. And that same year I punted
in the main event where on No Sleep I went
in there and reshoved fifty six big blinds. This is
another good story. But Chad Batista opens rip. Chad Battista
opens the hijack, and he was very, very very aggressive,
probably familiar with the name. A very loose passive player
calls cut off. Loose passive player calls button. And I
had whittled down my stack from thirty k was the
starting stack at the time, down to seventeen. We're just
coming back from dinner, so I got fifty six big linds.
I think he opened two and a half or maybe
even three x, so there was a lot out there,
I think two and a half. So I just thought
to myself, well, if I can get through Chad, I
know these other two guys are always folding, they would
have three bet their good hands, and so I just
shoved ten five off for fifty six lines, which is
like kind of crazy now thinking back on it. And
he Phil Hellmuth style calls me, you know, like the
Phil Helmuth like snap call or the chips are like,
he like beats me into the pot. So I'm like,
oh shit, I just ran into a monster. And then
he rolls over pocket eights, which at the time was
like a pretty amazing snap call. Like even now, I
don't think people would be a lot of people would
just fold of course, and certainly a lot of people
are not going to snap call. So that just shows
you his instincts. But that was a wild summer. So
I did not win that hand, and that was my
first main event.
Speaker 2: So did you did you pay the full forty?
Speaker 1: No, because we settled, like he said we were gonna
be able to settle for less, and so I think
he said, okay, we'll settle for twenty and I paid
him like twelve that summer and I paid him the
other eight over the next year or something like that.
Speaker 2: Wow, that's still insane. That's a massive number. Yeah, in
your years in poker, is there any other crazy story
that stands out that you're thinking back on, like how
did it even happen?
Speaker 1: I mean, that has to be one of the wildest ones.
I mean I don't gamble that way anymore, right, Like
I don't. I don't play table games anymore. I rarely
sports bet. I'm kind of boring now, so I don't
have those leaks, and I certainly don't bet forty K
with seventeen K to my name. That was just, you know,
dumb twenty two year old stuff. The beer pong one
in the Amsterdam missing the flight are definitely like two
of the better ones that I can think of off
the top of my head that kind of involved my
poker career. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Well, it's been really good having you on the show.
I really appreciate your time, and I look forward to
the book. Are you still working on?
Speaker 1: I didn't really ever get too far in Oka. I
wrote some notes and my mom would love nothing more
than to see me write this book, and maybe I
do at some point. But I guess I just feel
like I have too much other stuff on the go
right now. But I would like I would like to
do that at some point. I think it would be
pretty interesting.
Speaker 2: All right, So no pre orders just yet. Yeah, but
we'll keep a tab on how Alex is doing with
his book. Yeah, Alex, thanks so much for on the show.
Appreciate it. You guys at home, please liked the video.
Subscribe to the channel and leave a comment on who
you want to see next, or perhaps additional questions for Alex,
and I'll send him over to him and maybe we'll
have him answer those. Thanks for watching, and we'll see
you on the next one.