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Speaker 1: So I had this like existential crisis. I guess I

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just sort of came to terms with who I was

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in that moment and I decided to stay in.

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Speaker 2: Hey, this is Remco. Thanks for clicking on the video.

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This is my brand new podcast called facey As, in

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which I talked to the most interesting people in poker

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and go a little deeper into the topics you most

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care about. Enjoy Welcome to face the ace to podcast.

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Today I'm joined by Alex Livingston, two time Braceles winner

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Main Event Final Table under his belts has another deep

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run as well, with lots of stories to get into today.

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Please if you like the show, like the video, subscribe

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to a channel, leave a comment, and make some suggestions

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for guests. Alex, we're in the middle of the main

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as we're recording this. Yeah, this event, of course, you know,

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I don't even have to go over it, but has

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so much special meaning to you, especially as your career

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is sort of defined by two deep runs every year.

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You walk back into the main event and you see

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the room, you see the players. What are some of

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the first things that come back to mind?

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Speaker 1: Well, I mean, obviously I'm a little biased by the

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fact that I've had those deep runs. But to me,

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the Main Event has always just been a very very

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special tournament. There's just a different buzz in the room,

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you know, it's everything about the Main really. I always

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like tournaments that have deeper, slower structures. I like having

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lots of big blinds and room to maneuver. But I mean,

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of course, the Main it just attracts all the top

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pros for the most part. And then you know everyone

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around the world who just has this dream of winning

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the biggest tournament poker, and you have all these like leagues,

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you know, they'll they'll have thirty guys and they'll send

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one player to the Main every year. I played with

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a guy who was coming from one of those leagues

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at my table yesterday, and so it's just this amazing

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collection of players, and there's everyone's just truly, truly happy

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to be there.

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Speaker 2: Is it an advantage having gone deep twice for those

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living under a rock? Third in twenty nineteen for four million,

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and then thirteenth back in I Got to get This

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right twenty thirteen for four and fifty k Is it

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an advantage having done that twice? Or is it perhaps

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also mentally becoming a big hurdle because you know how

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insane it is to go on those runs.

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Speaker 1: Definitely just purely an advantage. I would say both because

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I'm comfortable with you know. So the first time I

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went deep, I kind of struggled to sleep and eat

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properly on the last few days. And then the second time,

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because I'd done it once, I think I was much

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more comfortable. So for me just being at the table,

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I'm more relaxed and comfortable. I don't feel any extra burden,

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you know. Of course, I think I will go deep

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again at some point. I hope to win at some point.

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I mean, I know it seems unrealistic, but that's if

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you don't think you can win and want to win,

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then why play. But I don't feel any extra pressure

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to have another result like that. I just I just

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want to And then you know, now with the app,

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players can look up who's at their table, so people

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will look me up and they'll see the two runs,

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and I think that, you know, for a casual player,

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there's a little extra intimidation. So my big thing in

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the main is, you know, one of the best ways

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to pick up chips is just raised and still blinds

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and if people are just folding their big blind a

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little bit more to you, or just not three bidding

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you quite as much out of the small blind. You

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know that goes a long way.

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Speaker 2: Do you try to figure out who's aware of you

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and your resume? Do you try to sort of get

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those early reads, perhaps through conversation, because there's definitely an

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advantage to be had there. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Well, I always like to talk to people at the table.

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It's not like I talk every single time, you know,

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minute I'm playing, but I do. I'm pretty social at

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the table, and I'm certainly not going to ask someone

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do you know who I am? But like sometimes people

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will just say something to me, or they'll ask me

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about my run, So then that I register that. I've

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always looked at poker as talk to people, get to

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know who they are as a person, and then figure

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out who they're going to be as a player based

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on who they are as a person. So I actually

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try to sort of solve the strategy that they're going

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to employ without looking at the poker decisions. That's that's

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just always been my thought process.

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Speaker 2: Can you give an example of that or how that

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comes into practice? Sometimes?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean even just the way. You know, there's

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all these things you can you've read about maybe in

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older books, like the way people still their chips like

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a tighter players are going to stack them much more

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like organized and then you know, looser players they'll be

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a little more splashy. But you know, you just get

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to learn. Maybe you get an idea of the type

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of upbringing somebody had and how they're going to You know,

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maybe they are more of a disciplined person, so you

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just expect less light three bets. Maybe they have a

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bit of an ego and they want to show off

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to people, so you expect that they're willing to show

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up with a big bluff and a huge spot, and

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you can you can make that read because you know

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they want a table the bluff in your face. There's

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some people who you three bet them twice in a row.

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They're going to take it very personally and stuff like that.

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And I just find by talking to people, you get

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an idea of people's tendencies, and then you can always

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adjust once you see a showdown. You know, you can

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always say, okay, well maybe I was wrong, but I

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would rather start with coming from a place of assuming

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everyone's going to play the way I think they will

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and then be willing to amit when I'm wrong.

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Speaker 2: When you had your first run, you had six total

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live cashes when you cast for four hundred and fifty

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one thousand, which is kind of crazy to look back.

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Speaker 1: On or false O WSP cashes maybe.

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Speaker 2: No total cashes I'm seeing here on your hand in

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MOB Yeah, I'm looking at it. Wow. Yeah it was nine,

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you had one, In eleven you had three, and then

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twenty thirteen you had two just prior to the w

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CP in Barcelona.

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Speaker 1: So I guess I wasn't much of a tournament player. Yeah,

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I've always been. I guess when I would say it

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started to become more of a tournament player was after COVID. Actually,

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so even in my run in twenty nineteen, I wasn't

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much of a tournament player. But yeah, I guess in

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twenty thirteen I was even even raw that I thought.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so my statement I wanted to make true or

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false that result had a bigger impact on your poker

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career than the third place finish.

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Speaker 1: I think that's fair. Yeah, I think that's fair. Although

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when I had the third place finish, I was kind

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of down swinging prior, and so it was it was

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massive as well, but in terms of maybe building my confidence,

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that one in twenty thirteen was really important and led

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me to play more tournaments certainly, But you know, it

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really wasn't until I guess twenty twenty two that I

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would say I kind of became a full time tournament

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player for a few years. And now I'm pivoting back

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to a bit of a mix.

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Speaker 2: So take us back prior to the score in twenty thirteen,

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where were you at mentally, where were you at stakes wise?

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And how did that score fit into your poker career

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at that point.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, twenty thirteen was a pretty cool year because, like,

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just from a personal level, I went to Africa for

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the first time with my mom. She's incredible. She volunteers

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in Rwanda and works with the antissiologists there and she's

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done a lot of amazing things and she had been

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going every year. So I finally went with her and

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volunteered in orphanage for a month, and then I went

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and climbed Mount Kilmanjarro, and then I went and lived

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in Barcelona for three months, played poker every day. So

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it was a really cool, immersive kind of year I

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was having, but I certainly wasn't super established poker wise.

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I was playing two four no limit in Barcelona and

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I was doing reasonably well, but you know, I didn't

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have a big bang roll by any means. Now, I

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sold a bunch for that twenty thirteen man, so you know,

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I didn't pocket the whole four fifty by any means.

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But it was the first time that I now had

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a six figure bankroll. I think maybe I had briefly

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had right around six figures before that, but this was

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like definitely a huge moment.

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Speaker 2: At that point in time twenty thirteen, which I you know,

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vivibly remember because that was also when poker still seemed

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like a real opportunity for people. As now it comes

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with so many more caveats because of how much stuff

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for the game has gotten an online. It's just so

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different from what it was back then. Did you have

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a sense or an outlook back then on what poker

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would mean in the compts of your life? What was it,

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you know, just a train station along the way, or

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was it perhaps the final destination? How did you look

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at it?

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Speaker 1: Well, it's funny because there was times when I thought

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to myself well, by the time I turned twenty eight,

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I'll be doing something else. By the time I turned thirty,

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I'll be doing something And then I've kind of stopped

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thinking that at this point. Like I think, at that

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point it was unclear if poker was what I want

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to do for the rest of my life. But I'd

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been doing it for five or six years and you know,

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getting by, so I certainly enjoyed it, but I wasn't

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sure it was going to be necessarily a full time career.

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Speaker 2: So then we'd go one step further back to two

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thousand and nine. The story that I'd love for you

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to share with us, and what you remember of it

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is the misflight in Amsterdam, and then how that became

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sort of pivotal to perhaps a moment of reflection and

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perhaps some introspection on what you wanted to do. Yeah,

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take us back to that trip.

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Speaker 1: That was a good one. So two thousand and nine,

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I have just taken a year off of college. I

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had completed three years at this point, so I was

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supposed to go back for my fourth year. But because

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I took the year off, like all the guys in

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my class had already graduated, so I was going to

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be socially. It was give me a little bit different

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and so on. Right before I was supposed to go

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back to school, I was playing poker at Foxwoods and

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I just got this idea and I just messaged my

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friend and I said we were talking about doing a

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trip together. And I was like, why don't we go

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to Europe? And he was like, okay, I'm in. How

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old were you at this point? I was twenty one? Yeah,

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I was yeah, so he was in. You know. We

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was impulsive, obviously, and our idea was to do Paris.

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I think we went to Switzerland for a couple of days,

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and then Amsterdam was the final stop.

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Speaker 2: And Rome.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Rom, Sorry, wasn't Switzerland. Okay, we flew into room.

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You know better than me this, This is really embarrassing. Okay,

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so no, we flew into Rome. This is what happened.

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We went to Rome, We went to room for a

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couple of days. Then we made our way over to

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Paris and we were having so much fun that we

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decided to fly our friend into Paris to meet us.

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We booked him his ticket. We didn't tell him about it.

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We just booked him a ticket. We sent him an

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email that just said travel light and had his itinerary

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and he met us there and we had these like signs,

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you know, the signs like the drivers get at the airport.

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We made signs for him. We had like sunglasses, and

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we like wore suits and stuff, and we picked them

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upt the airport and went to Paris for a couple

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of days, and then with him we went to Amsterdam.

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Amsdam is obviously amazing city. When you're twenty two, it's

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like super fun. And the last night we went to

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a place called Supper Club, which is like kind of

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a dining slash show experience type thing. The three of

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us went and we got pretty drunk, quite drunk. I

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think I was maybe throwing rocks outside or something like that.

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There's some It was not like a great night. But

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by the end of it we go to hotel room

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and I'm supposed to fly back to Boston the next

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morning to complete my last year of college. And obviously

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I slept through this flight. I mean, this was probably

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top five drunk this night of my life. I don't

241
00:10:47,639 --> 00:10:49,639
know how I ever thought I was going to make

242
00:10:49,679 --> 00:10:51,559
a nine am flight wake up and then I have

243
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It's like now it's ten am. I've missed a flight.

244
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I have this panic attack and I'm like, okay, guys,

245
00:10:56,279 --> 00:10:57,639
I missed my flight. What am I going to do?

246
00:10:57,840 --> 00:11:00,679
And they're like they're hungover. They're like, look, I think

247
00:11:00,679 --> 00:11:02,120
we're going to stay here, like at least a few

248
00:11:02,159 --> 00:11:04,759
more days, and you can either stay with us or

249
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you can go home. So I had this like existential crisis,

250
00:11:08,240 --> 00:11:09,919
but I wasn't really that motivated to go back to

251
00:11:09,960 --> 00:11:11,679
school anyway. It was like one of those things where

252
00:11:11,679 --> 00:11:13,519
I was spending more time on the golf course or

253
00:11:13,600 --> 00:11:16,360
watching high stakes poker poker after dark than I was

254
00:11:16,399 --> 00:11:19,759
like devoting any time to school. So I guess I

255
00:11:19,840 --> 00:11:21,639
just sort of came to terms with who I was

256
00:11:21,679 --> 00:11:24,519
in that moment, and I decided to stay. And then

257
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we ended up staying for three months, and we had

258
00:11:27,720 --> 00:11:31,159
we were short on cash, so we had like money,

259
00:11:31,200 --> 00:11:32,519
but you know, we was in our bank accounts and

260
00:11:32,559 --> 00:11:34,000
it was hard to access it while we were there.

261
00:11:34,000 --> 00:11:37,399
We were short on physical euros, and no one would

262
00:11:37,440 --> 00:11:39,200
rent a place to us for three months without us

263
00:11:39,240 --> 00:11:40,919
paying all the rent upfront because we're just a bunch

264
00:11:40,919 --> 00:11:43,360
of twenty two year old kids and we're from another country,

265
00:11:43,360 --> 00:11:46,320
and they didn't, so so we ended up having to

266
00:11:46,360 --> 00:11:47,919
go to the casino with the three of us and

267
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like try to spin it up the first couple of

268
00:11:50,480 --> 00:11:52,879
days just so we could get the place. And you know,

269
00:11:53,279 --> 00:11:55,440
one of our friends ended up playing in the PLO game.

270
00:11:55,440 --> 00:11:58,200
And I wish I was courageous enough to try the

271
00:11:58,200 --> 00:11:59,759
PILO game back then, because there was a two four

272
00:11:59,840 --> 00:12:01,440
NoHo limit that went every day, and then a five

273
00:12:01,559 --> 00:12:05,000
to ten PLO and the five ten PLO looked incredible,

274
00:12:05,000 --> 00:12:06,720
but I didn't know PLO at all. But he want

275
00:12:06,759 --> 00:12:08,639
a bunch of money in the PLO that got us

276
00:12:08,720 --> 00:12:10,000
enough to pay the rent. We had a little bit

277
00:12:10,039 --> 00:12:11,799
left over to grind with and we made it work.

278
00:12:11,960 --> 00:12:14,039
Speaker 2: That's such an incredible story. Yeah, And it's such a

279
00:12:14,759 --> 00:12:17,600
such a great memory of like an inflection point into

280
00:12:17,639 --> 00:12:19,600
where poker became a huge part of your life.

281
00:12:19,679 --> 00:12:21,120
Speaker 1: I think they had that. If I had to say

282
00:12:21,120 --> 00:12:23,039
when did I turn pro, it would be that morning,

283
00:12:23,080 --> 00:12:25,600
because that was when I decided, because I had this

284
00:12:25,679 --> 00:12:28,080
whole backup plan. I was going to go back to school.

285
00:12:28,120 --> 00:12:29,440
I had a job line up. I had met a

286
00:12:29,440 --> 00:12:32,159
guy on a cruise ship who were playing blackjack on

287
00:12:32,200 --> 00:12:33,440
the cruise ship and He just saw the way I

288
00:12:33,480 --> 00:12:35,919
was working the chips and the decisions, and he saw

289
00:12:35,919 --> 00:12:38,480
that my brain was good with this stuff, and he said,

290
00:12:38,519 --> 00:12:39,639
what do you do for a living? I said, I

291
00:12:39,720 --> 00:12:41,639
play poker, but I'm in school and he said, well,

292
00:12:41,639 --> 00:12:43,559
how would you like to be a day trader? So

293
00:12:43,840 --> 00:12:45,960
I guess it was just a couple months before Amsterdam.

294
00:12:46,039 --> 00:12:48,480
I had gone and done a five to seven days

295
00:12:48,480 --> 00:12:52,200
something like that internship in New York, and they had

296
00:12:52,240 --> 00:12:54,679
basically said, look, if you go back to school, you

297
00:12:54,720 --> 00:12:57,240
get better grades and you quit poker, we have a

298
00:12:57,360 --> 00:12:59,279
job for you. And it was a pretty cool opportunity.

299
00:12:59,320 --> 00:13:01,159
It was like they said, like the top guy in

300
00:13:01,200 --> 00:13:03,559
the firm was making three million a year, but maybe

301
00:13:03,600 --> 00:13:06,559
the tenth guy was only making fifty k year. So

302
00:13:06,879 --> 00:13:08,200
it was one of those things where if you were

303
00:13:08,240 --> 00:13:09,879
good at it and you worked hard, there was a

304
00:13:09,960 --> 00:13:13,039
huge upside. But that morning, when I didn't end up

305
00:13:13,080 --> 00:13:14,879
going back to college, it was pretty clear I was

306
00:13:14,919 --> 00:13:16,720
not going down that route. So I'd say, that's like

307
00:13:16,720 --> 00:13:17,559
when I became a pro.

308
00:13:17,720 --> 00:13:20,159
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know you're really tight with your mom and

309
00:13:20,200 --> 00:13:22,200
you already alluded it to it, like traveling to Africa

310
00:13:23,679 --> 00:13:28,240
when a sun is in a good university and has

311
00:13:28,360 --> 00:13:31,879
prospects of a career where the upside is clearly very

312
00:13:32,039 --> 00:13:34,799
very high, and you're a smart guy. How does the

313
00:13:34,799 --> 00:13:37,159
conversation go saying like no, no, no, I just you know,

314
00:13:37,200 --> 00:13:38,840
we spun it up at hold them and we're paying

315
00:13:38,840 --> 00:13:41,480
three months rent up front. Yeah, I'm now a poker player.

316
00:13:41,639 --> 00:13:44,279
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, so I had I've an aunt and uncle

317
00:13:44,320 --> 00:13:45,840
i'm really close with as well, and I have my mom,

318
00:13:45,879 --> 00:13:48,759
and I had to tell all three of them that

319
00:13:48,759 --> 00:13:50,720
that I was not going back to school, and it

320
00:13:50,759 --> 00:13:52,559
was definitely a difficult conversation at the time. But I

321
00:13:52,559 --> 00:13:54,879
think as I've come to have success, like everyone's kind

322
00:13:54,919 --> 00:13:57,919
of recognized that it's it's been a good move. I

323
00:13:57,919 --> 00:14:00,399
think my you know, my mom at this point is

324
00:14:00,440 --> 00:14:02,799
kind of come to terms with it. But I always

325
00:14:02,840 --> 00:14:04,240
thought that I would be a good teacher, that I

326
00:14:04,279 --> 00:14:07,080
could excel in some other jobs. And of course now

327
00:14:07,159 --> 00:14:09,159
I do some other things too, with commentating and coaching,

328
00:14:09,200 --> 00:14:12,240
So it's kind of good to to have a little

329
00:14:12,279 --> 00:14:14,879
bit of diversity to what I do rather than just

330
00:14:14,919 --> 00:14:16,639
be a full time poker player forever.

331
00:14:17,240 --> 00:14:19,759
Speaker 2: When someone works on that nine to five there there

332
00:14:19,840 --> 00:14:22,720
is very sort of basic conversation with with parents and

333
00:14:22,759 --> 00:14:25,360
friends because you know, everyone has a job. Yeah, but

334
00:14:25,399 --> 00:14:27,960
then when you take a career outside of that, that's

335
00:14:28,080 --> 00:14:31,639
very non traditional. There's a lot of hand hand holding

336
00:14:31,960 --> 00:14:35,240
when it comes to you know, explaining people stuff or

337
00:14:35,279 --> 00:14:38,120
not explaining them things, or maybe giving them more insights

338
00:14:38,159 --> 00:14:40,559
or less insights. How did you balance that as you

339
00:14:40,600 --> 00:14:43,480
sort of progressed and then you know, culminating with them

340
00:14:43,519 --> 00:14:45,320
maybe the deep run in the main where you can

341
00:14:45,360 --> 00:14:47,799
maybe sort of show off in a different way that like,

342
00:14:47,919 --> 00:14:50,039
I think I made the right decision. Did you have

343
00:14:50,120 --> 00:14:51,759
to sort of work that out and figure that.

344
00:14:51,679 --> 00:14:54,879
Speaker 1: Out just in terms of like how, I well, how

345
00:14:54,919 --> 00:14:55,480
you had.

346
00:14:55,360 --> 00:14:56,639
Speaker 2: You know, your mom and your aunt and uncle come

347
00:14:56,679 --> 00:14:58,519
to terms with the fact that you know, this is

348
00:14:58,519 --> 00:14:59,840
something that they did not expect.

349
00:15:00,080 --> 00:15:03,320
Speaker 1: Yeah. I think the tournament results helped, right, So, like

350
00:15:03,519 --> 00:15:05,519
when they could see the tournament result in twenty thirteen,

351
00:15:05,559 --> 00:15:07,679
because it's funny you can win consistently in cash games

352
00:15:07,679 --> 00:15:11,279
but they can't really see it, and seeing that was like, wow, Okay,

353
00:15:11,320 --> 00:15:14,000
he can actually make some real money here. And I

354
00:15:14,000 --> 00:15:17,679
think just time as well helped everyone kind of understand

355
00:15:18,120 --> 00:15:20,360
that it was what was making me happy and was

356
00:15:20,360 --> 00:15:22,759
working for me and that it's not a lot of

357
00:15:22,759 --> 00:15:24,679
people just think of it as gambling and they have

358
00:15:24,960 --> 00:15:28,000
certain connotations in their head. I mean, we've all anyone

359
00:15:28,000 --> 00:15:29,960
who works in the gambling world in any capacity, I'm

360
00:15:29,960 --> 00:15:33,759
sure has has had judgment from some people. But yeah,

361
00:15:34,200 --> 00:15:39,080
just kind of time and consistency.

362
00:15:39,759 --> 00:15:42,320
Speaker 2: So then you put in the time and you are

363
00:15:42,360 --> 00:15:46,279
consistent and you work really hard. The score that you

364
00:15:46,320 --> 00:15:48,080
had and you didn't have all of yourself, how did

365
00:15:48,080 --> 00:15:50,600
that change things? Was there certain stakes in order to

366
00:15:50,639 --> 00:15:52,559
try and you did. Did it motivate you to work harder?

367
00:15:52,679 --> 00:15:54,480
I know that your tournament career didn't really take off

368
00:15:54,519 --> 00:15:57,360
until later, so it almost seems as though it was like,

369
00:15:57,480 --> 00:15:59,200
you know, back to normal after that.

370
00:15:59,360 --> 00:16:01,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was just back to normal, to be honest.

371
00:16:01,519 --> 00:16:04,200
I did have a phase actually online where I was

372
00:16:04,200 --> 00:16:06,679
a tournament player, but I was never really a full

373
00:16:06,720 --> 00:16:11,759
time live tournament player again until post COVID. I just

374
00:16:12,039 --> 00:16:15,240
always found cash games were fun and engaging, and I

375
00:16:15,360 --> 00:16:17,360
was pretty good at them, and I started I guess

376
00:16:17,399 --> 00:16:19,360
after that twenty thirteen score, maybe I got more into

377
00:16:19,399 --> 00:16:21,759
PLO and a little bit more into mixed games, but

378
00:16:21,799 --> 00:16:23,879
I had already been playing some of both of those things,

379
00:16:24,799 --> 00:16:28,919
so it wasn't maybe as monumental. It was certainly validating,

380
00:16:28,960 --> 00:16:32,559
and in terms of like the outside world, you know,

381
00:16:32,759 --> 00:16:35,759
it was validating with family and all that. But I

382
00:16:35,759 --> 00:16:37,960
don't think it changed things as much as you might think.

383
00:16:37,960 --> 00:16:39,840
I didn't really move up too much in stakes. I

384
00:16:39,840 --> 00:16:41,879
was kind of just I just had like a cushier

385
00:16:41,879 --> 00:16:45,000
bankroll now to play cash games. And it's interesting because

386
00:16:45,039 --> 00:16:47,360
that it didn't really make me think I was a

387
00:16:47,360 --> 00:16:49,559
great tournament player by any means. And I still think

388
00:16:50,080 --> 00:16:55,240
the main event is a unicorn tournament, so like, I

389
00:16:55,240 --> 00:16:57,320
don't think the skill set to be a great just

390
00:16:57,399 --> 00:17:00,000
no one at tournament player necessarily always translates over to

391
00:17:00,000 --> 00:17:04,720
the best main event players. I would sometimes take, like,

392
00:17:04,839 --> 00:17:07,599
let's say, a live cash player who plays two five

393
00:17:07,720 --> 00:17:11,000
or five ten and has like a ton of experience

394
00:17:11,039 --> 00:17:13,519
playing with the types of players you're going to play

395
00:17:13,519 --> 00:17:15,559
with in these fields, I would take them over some

396
00:17:15,640 --> 00:17:18,400
high stakes online tournament players. And I know I'll get

397
00:17:18,400 --> 00:17:21,680
pushed back from that from the high stakes community, and

398
00:17:21,759 --> 00:17:24,359
I understand that the high stakes players are more technical

399
00:17:24,400 --> 00:17:27,279
and more studied and probably going to be a lot

400
00:17:27,359 --> 00:17:30,559
better in ICM. In some of those late game situations.

401
00:17:31,039 --> 00:17:33,279
But I do think that there is kind of a

402
00:17:33,319 --> 00:17:35,799
specific skill set for the main that maybe is a

403
00:17:35,839 --> 00:17:37,960
little bit more transferable to cash games, and so maybe

404
00:17:37,960 --> 00:17:39,559
that's why, you know, having a score in the main,

405
00:17:39,640 --> 00:17:41,880
I just felt like it was like almost like another

406
00:17:41,880 --> 00:17:42,680
cash game in a way.

407
00:17:42,759 --> 00:17:45,039
Speaker 2: You know, I've been fortunate enough to do commentary with

408
00:17:45,079 --> 00:17:48,000
you on PLO, and I'll be the first to admit that,

409
00:17:48,200 --> 00:17:50,200
you know, I love to do the play by play,

410
00:17:50,400 --> 00:17:53,519
yet you know, my PLO knowledge definitely is is just

411
00:17:53,599 --> 00:17:56,440
good enough to ask some good questions every now and then,

412
00:17:57,559 --> 00:18:00,359
but to me to sort of hear you say all

413
00:18:00,400 --> 00:18:03,359
this and then the progression You may to play all

414
00:18:03,359 --> 00:18:08,200
the games, win a stud bracelet win mixed game events

415
00:18:08,240 --> 00:18:11,160
like all over the place, and still have sort of

416
00:18:11,160 --> 00:18:13,960
this humble approach to your approach versus how some of

417
00:18:13,960 --> 00:18:16,319
the top pros are doing it. It almost seems like

418
00:18:16,720 --> 00:18:21,400
there's some disconnect between you fully appreciating how good you

419
00:18:21,440 --> 00:18:22,039
are at the game.

420
00:18:23,079 --> 00:18:25,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know. I mean, I think I'm confidence

421
00:18:25,480 --> 00:18:26,599
is one of the things that can come and go.

422
00:18:26,720 --> 00:18:30,160
So I've been in kind of a rougher stretch, i'd say,

423
00:18:30,160 --> 00:18:32,920
for the last year year and a half. I do

424
00:18:32,960 --> 00:18:34,440
still think I'm very good. I think my a game

425
00:18:34,519 --> 00:18:37,160
is very good, and I'm just trying to find more

426
00:18:37,200 --> 00:18:39,880
ways to play it. But I would say I've always

427
00:18:39,880 --> 00:18:41,759
had a unique approach to the game. I would say

428
00:18:41,799 --> 00:18:47,039
that I definitely believe in study, and I believe in

429
00:18:47,400 --> 00:18:50,079
solidifying your technical skills, and maybe I could do a

430
00:18:50,119 --> 00:18:52,799
little bit more of that some of the time, but

431
00:18:53,480 --> 00:18:55,480
I think there's so much more to playing high level

432
00:18:55,519 --> 00:18:59,160
poker than that, And so it's that classic classic like

433
00:18:59,200 --> 00:19:02,079
technical versus x plointative. Obviously the best players do both.

434
00:19:02,519 --> 00:19:05,519
There's other categories to like table presence and just like

435
00:19:05,680 --> 00:19:07,880
mental game and all that stuff, and the best players

436
00:19:07,880 --> 00:19:11,599
have all of it. But I find my results are

437
00:19:11,599 --> 00:19:15,920
best when I'm having fun and thinking creatively, and so yeah,

438
00:19:15,960 --> 00:19:18,440
I will make plays that maybe are very outside of

439
00:19:18,440 --> 00:19:20,519
the box, particularly in an event like the main event.

440
00:19:21,000 --> 00:19:24,680
Speaker 2: The runs in hold them have sort of paid the bills,

441
00:19:24,799 --> 00:19:28,000
if you will, and then you have obviously you have

442
00:19:28,079 --> 00:19:30,839
a p low bracelet also. But the love and the

443
00:19:30,839 --> 00:19:34,839
passion for mixed games is not the I guess, from

444
00:19:34,880 --> 00:19:38,039
a poker sense, the recommended approach, because there's less volume,

445
00:19:38,240 --> 00:19:42,279
they are smaller, smaller, prize pools, and there's also usually

446
00:19:43,119 --> 00:19:46,920
a well studied competition, especially at the highest stakes. Is

447
00:19:46,920 --> 00:19:49,599
it just how much you're enjoying those games in an

448
00:19:49,640 --> 00:19:51,839
atmosphere that drives you to those games, or is there

449
00:19:51,839 --> 00:19:52,319
something else?

450
00:19:52,480 --> 00:19:54,599
Speaker 1: First and foremost come from I love playing those different games.

451
00:19:54,640 --> 00:19:56,480
I love the stud games in particular. They're so fun.

452
00:19:56,519 --> 00:19:58,640
They're the only games where you can see part of

453
00:19:58,640 --> 00:20:02,839
your opponent's hand. There are games of partial information, and

454
00:20:03,279 --> 00:20:06,559
if you're paying attention and really like studying the way

455
00:20:06,599 --> 00:20:09,720
people play their upcards and then also remembering the dead cards,

456
00:20:10,039 --> 00:20:12,319
you can gain a pretty big advantage. But yeah, I

457
00:20:12,359 --> 00:20:15,240
don't know that I would say that the competition is

458
00:20:15,279 --> 00:20:18,039
harder in mixed games. You know, yes, there are some

459
00:20:18,160 --> 00:20:21,400
very well studied players, but for instance, something like twenty

460
00:20:21,400 --> 00:20:23,200
five k horse versus something like a twenty five k

461
00:20:23,319 --> 00:20:25,759
Nolimit event, I think you could argue that the horse

462
00:20:25,759 --> 00:20:28,400
event is going to be a bit softer just because

463
00:20:28,400 --> 00:20:30,480
the no limit players at the top are are so

464
00:20:30,519 --> 00:20:32,920
well studied and there's so many of them, and there

465
00:20:32,960 --> 00:20:35,119
are fewer people at least that I think are taking

466
00:20:35,160 --> 00:20:38,880
that super disciplined, rigorous approach with mixed games. I mean this.

467
00:20:39,279 --> 00:20:41,519
For instance, this ten K eight game that just went on.

468
00:20:41,680 --> 00:20:43,400
It was good timing, it was right around the main event,

469
00:20:43,759 --> 00:20:46,599
but it was plenty of complete unknowns and it was

470
00:20:46,599 --> 00:20:50,359
a very nice field. No result for me, but you

471
00:20:50,359 --> 00:20:51,920
can't be a results already to win them all.

472
00:20:52,039 --> 00:20:56,599
Speaker 2: Yeah. Is there perhaps too much name respect in mixed games?

473
00:20:56,720 --> 00:20:59,839
Probably because the thing for me, and you know, I'll

474
00:20:59,839 --> 00:21:01,720
call myself poker media, even though I find it a

475
00:21:01,720 --> 00:21:06,000
bit of a tough term, we often hang on to

476
00:21:06,200 --> 00:21:08,720
all these names and they are always in the mixgin furnaments.

477
00:21:08,759 --> 00:21:10,440
You pick up any result of a ten K mix

478
00:21:10,519 --> 00:21:14,519
game and it's just all sounds very impressive. Yeah, Are

479
00:21:14,799 --> 00:21:17,839
are the names just not living up to the hype?

480
00:21:18,279 --> 00:21:20,599
Speaker 1: What? Yeah, I wouldn't necessarily say. What I would say

481
00:21:20,640 --> 00:21:24,559
is this, right, is people have their idea of who

482
00:21:24,599 --> 00:21:27,559
the best one hundred players are, who the best twenty

483
00:21:27,559 --> 00:21:29,319
five mix game players are. They have this idea in

484
00:21:29,319 --> 00:21:32,079
their head. Maybe they don't have a Google sheet with rankings,

485
00:21:32,119 --> 00:21:34,880
but they have a general idea. Right. But on any

486
00:21:35,119 --> 00:21:38,160
given day, a quote unquote bad player can play better

487
00:21:38,200 --> 00:21:40,640
than a quote unquote good player. So if you're not

488
00:21:40,680 --> 00:21:43,680
bringing your this is what I've always give the example

489
00:21:43,720 --> 00:21:45,960
of I think Jeremy Osmas as someone brings at least

490
00:21:45,960 --> 00:21:48,440
his B game to the table pretty much every time

491
00:21:48,440 --> 00:21:51,079
he sits down, and I think that's few and far between.

492
00:21:51,319 --> 00:21:53,319
So I think there are some great players, but you

493
00:21:53,400 --> 00:21:55,599
might catch them on their C game, or you might

494
00:21:55,640 --> 00:21:57,079
be not as good of a player, but you're on

495
00:21:57,119 --> 00:21:58,519
a run and you're on your A game. So I

496
00:21:58,519 --> 00:22:01,279
think the rankings are kind of in lu And yeah,

497
00:22:01,400 --> 00:22:03,640
I mean if the names you're talking about, I'm sure

498
00:22:03,680 --> 00:22:06,079
a lot of them are definitely just great players. But

499
00:22:06,119 --> 00:22:08,359
some of them also maybe they're backed and they're just

500
00:22:08,440 --> 00:22:10,599
they've been playing these tournaments forever and they're buried. You know,

501
00:22:10,640 --> 00:22:13,559
you never really know what someone's results are. Everyone's gonna

502
00:22:13,559 --> 00:22:15,559
have their own opinions on who the best players are,

503
00:22:15,599 --> 00:22:17,759
who the worst players are. That's what's great about the game,

504
00:22:17,799 --> 00:22:19,200
and that's what keeps everyone coming back.

505
00:22:19,240 --> 00:22:21,279
Speaker 2: It'd be way way better to go viral if I

506
00:22:21,279 --> 00:22:22,920
asked you to name all the terrible players.

507
00:22:23,279 --> 00:22:24,519
Speaker 1: I don't I don't know if we should do that.

508
00:22:24,759 --> 00:22:27,160
Would that would do well? I mean off the record.

509
00:22:28,160 --> 00:22:30,880
Speaker 2: But instead what I'll do is, you know, reference for

510
00:22:30,960 --> 00:22:34,279
fifty K run this year, which of course iconic event. Yeah,

511
00:22:34,359 --> 00:22:36,480
has so much history to it. It's the only event

512
00:22:36,559 --> 00:22:39,599
in mixed games that has the kind of history. But

513
00:22:39,680 --> 00:22:42,279
I'm curious, you know this this year Benny Glasser one,

514
00:22:42,680 --> 00:22:45,680
ri A second, Idy got third. Who are some of

515
00:22:45,720 --> 00:22:48,319
the players in that type of atmosphere, that kind of

516
00:22:48,359 --> 00:22:50,759
arena that really stand out to you, that impress you

517
00:22:50,839 --> 00:22:54,240
and perhaps point out some things about them or their

518
00:22:54,279 --> 00:22:55,920
game that you remember.

519
00:22:56,400 --> 00:22:58,599
Speaker 1: I'll start with those three, I guess. I think Benny

520
00:22:58,799 --> 00:23:01,519
is without a doubt one of the best overall mixed

521
00:23:01,519 --> 00:23:04,480
game players in the world. You know, he's proven it

522
00:23:04,559 --> 00:23:06,640
time and time again. I think this is his ninth bracelet.

523
00:23:07,079 --> 00:23:09,640
I think that's right, n Y, Yeah, it's up anyway,

524
00:23:09,680 --> 00:23:13,799
it's it's a big number. He plays online live clearly

525
00:23:13,920 --> 00:23:17,960
just very well studied, very very accomplished player. Josh Aria,

526
00:23:18,119 --> 00:23:20,519
I think, is someone who was less technical than some

527
00:23:20,559 --> 00:23:22,960
of the other guys, but just has a tremendous feel

528
00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:25,960
for the game. So just really really good instincts and

529
00:23:26,200 --> 00:23:29,559
very competitive person. And you know, somebody I really enjoy

530
00:23:29,640 --> 00:23:32,079
hanging out with a friend of mine. And then Phil Ivy,

531
00:23:32,480 --> 00:23:36,000
I mean, yeah, he's the goat, right, so's it all

532
00:23:36,039 --> 00:23:37,680
started with Phil Ivey. I mean, he was my first

533
00:23:37,680 --> 00:23:41,319
hero when I was watching you know, poker back and

534
00:23:41,559 --> 00:23:42,960
I went to a boarding school actual for the last

535
00:23:43,039 --> 00:23:46,000
years of high school, and I just remember being in

536
00:23:46,039 --> 00:23:48,400
like our lounge watching World Series of Poker two thousand

537
00:23:48,400 --> 00:23:51,559
and three Phil Ivy with the Steve Francis Jersey, and

538
00:23:51,960 --> 00:23:53,599
you know, I'd look at that as kind of like

539
00:23:53,720 --> 00:23:56,519
why I wanted to get into poker. So yeah, it's

540
00:23:56,559 --> 00:23:58,920
it's cool that he's back here competing because he he

541
00:23:59,000 --> 00:24:00,960
kind of goes on and off somedy, he'll take time off.

542
00:24:01,640 --> 00:24:04,440
It seems like he's he's locked in again and ready

543
00:24:04,440 --> 00:24:07,799
to really compete a high level and poker's just better

544
00:24:07,839 --> 00:24:11,440
when he's in the mix. And then so other players

545
00:24:11,440 --> 00:24:13,400
in the fifty k that I think are I mean,

546
00:24:13,559 --> 00:24:15,920
there's so many, right, It's I mean, Nick, are.

547
00:24:15,839 --> 00:24:18,559
Speaker 2: There are there specific things you see or you know,

548
00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:21,720
is it too like you know, he makes one extra

549
00:24:21,759 --> 00:24:24,720
bet in some spots, or is it perhaps something more

550
00:24:24,720 --> 00:24:28,279
holistic on how they approach that type of setting that

551
00:24:28,319 --> 00:24:30,720
makes them stand out because you mentioned, you know, Aria

552
00:24:30,799 --> 00:24:33,920
and Ivy, they are coming from that fuel background. The

553
00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:36,720
results have been super impressive, But is there a way

554
00:24:36,759 --> 00:24:40,000
to perhaps quantify feel through the lens of how you

555
00:24:40,039 --> 00:24:40,599
see the game.

556
00:24:41,240 --> 00:24:44,720
Speaker 1: To me, someone who has great feel is just acting

557
00:24:44,960 --> 00:24:52,319
purely off of instinct and they're not fighting themselves on

558
00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:56,279
a decision, right, Because if you take a technical player,

559
00:24:56,359 --> 00:24:58,519
especially someone who mostly plays online, and you sit them

560
00:24:58,519 --> 00:25:02,160
down live, they I might think to themselves, this guy's

561
00:25:02,519 --> 00:25:04,759
doing something that feels weird to me. I think I

562
00:25:04,799 --> 00:25:08,200
need to play an exploitative style to adjust to that

563
00:25:08,400 --> 00:25:11,759
decision that this player is making. But then they have

564
00:25:11,799 --> 00:25:13,799
to go through this whole brain solve in their head

565
00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:17,920
of well, if he's five percent two wide here, then

566
00:25:18,200 --> 00:25:20,640
how many pips down can I go for value on

567
00:25:20,680 --> 00:25:23,519
my three bets? And it takes up a lot of

568
00:25:23,559 --> 00:25:27,839
brain energy trying to solve all that, whereas somebody like

569
00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:31,359
Ivy or the Grinder, they're not thinking on that level.

570
00:25:32,119 --> 00:25:35,640
They're just reacting based off of instincts, based off of

571
00:25:35,680 --> 00:25:37,640
all the poker they play in their life, and they're

572
00:25:37,640 --> 00:25:40,400
making they're often coming to actually better conclusions on how

573
00:25:40,440 --> 00:25:44,640
to exploit without any of that internal struggle. So to me,

574
00:25:44,759 --> 00:25:45,960
that's what a great field player is.

575
00:25:46,039 --> 00:25:48,599
Speaker 2: It's it's honestly the most fascinating topic for me and

576
00:25:48,640 --> 00:25:52,319
poker to talk about field players because it's so relevant

577
00:25:52,359 --> 00:25:55,559
these days where everyone is studying so much. Yeah, because

578
00:25:55,599 --> 00:25:58,559
back in the day, feel was the only way to win.

579
00:25:59,480 --> 00:26:01,680
When we watch we all watch the same stuff. When

580
00:26:01,720 --> 00:26:04,480
you watch that stuff, it's all about making reads. Yeah,

581
00:26:04,559 --> 00:26:07,920
I feel like it comes up in conversation making reads

582
00:26:08,359 --> 00:26:11,640
or you know, trying to you know, use feel or

583
00:26:11,720 --> 00:26:14,960
use instinct. But at the same time, the emphasis is

584
00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:19,519
so much on the studying part. How do you sharpen

585
00:26:19,599 --> 00:26:20,079
your feel?

586
00:26:21,279 --> 00:26:24,039
Speaker 1: Hessee? I think sharpening your feel is something you do

587
00:26:24,079 --> 00:26:27,119
away from the table in a non studious way. So

588
00:26:27,240 --> 00:26:30,359
whether it's for me, it's doing things that put me

589
00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:35,599
in flow state, like skiing or hiking or golfing, you know,

590
00:26:35,839 --> 00:26:39,279
anything where I'm not on my phone. To me, that's

591
00:26:39,319 --> 00:26:41,759
how you sharpen your feel. It's it's kind of a

592
00:26:41,759 --> 00:26:43,960
thing that can't be taught though, in my opinion, So

593
00:26:44,319 --> 00:26:48,720
that's why you can be a great poker mind and

594
00:26:48,799 --> 00:26:50,839
you know what like And again it's not to take

595
00:26:50,839 --> 00:26:53,000
anything away from the from that type of player, because

596
00:26:53,960 --> 00:26:56,559
feel has its limitations. And this happened to me. I

597
00:26:56,720 --> 00:26:59,200
was crushing plo cash for many years and then you

598
00:26:59,240 --> 00:27:01,839
know around twenty eight ten, twenty nineteen, I found myself

599
00:27:01,880 --> 00:27:04,359
when when I wasn't the best player at the table,

600
00:27:04,359 --> 00:27:06,519
when there were a couple more studied players, I was

601
00:27:06,559 --> 00:27:09,039
struggling against them because they're obviously much more balanced and

602
00:27:09,039 --> 00:27:11,799
they're not giving away as much and I was a

603
00:27:11,880 --> 00:27:14,720
little bit technically raw. So then I started studying a lot.

604
00:27:14,759 --> 00:27:16,279
And I think studying is still really good of your

605
00:27:16,319 --> 00:27:19,960
field player because it helps hone your baselines. But can

606
00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:22,119
you teach feel? I don't know. I mean, you can

607
00:27:22,160 --> 00:27:26,519
definitely do things, probably mindset stuff, exercise, all that stuff's

608
00:27:26,519 --> 00:27:29,079
going to help you. But I think some people inherently

609
00:27:29,119 --> 00:27:32,079
have more of that quality than other people. Just like

610
00:27:32,440 --> 00:27:34,359
some people are inherently going to be better at studying

611
00:27:34,400 --> 00:27:36,720
the technical side, there's some people who for whom their

612
00:27:36,759 --> 00:27:40,680
brain cannot process the technical side. Obviously, the best players

613
00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:42,759
probably have the brain that can kind of do a

614
00:27:42,759 --> 00:27:45,319
little bit of both. I mean, the classic example for

615
00:27:45,359 --> 00:27:50,160
me would be Mateos, who has just immaculate feel, but

616
00:27:50,319 --> 00:27:53,720
is also extremely diligent and well studied and has that

617
00:27:53,799 --> 00:27:55,680
like logical side of his brain going, and then on

618
00:27:55,720 --> 00:28:00,640
top of that has amazing table presence and does everything

619
00:28:00,799 --> 00:28:02,680
I mean, he just he literally does everything you want

620
00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:04,359
to do to succeed as a as a high sticks

621
00:28:04,400 --> 00:28:05,720
poker player, and that's why he's at the top.

622
00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:09,039
Speaker 2: What's stopping you from being there and doing that?

623
00:28:09,039 --> 00:28:12,359
Speaker 1: That's a good question, I would say. So I got

624
00:28:12,400 --> 00:28:16,319
engaged recently, and you know, we haven't decided we're gonna

625
00:28:16,359 --> 00:28:17,920
have kids, but it's a possibility. We have a couple

626
00:28:17,960 --> 00:28:22,240
of dogs, you know. Yeah, No, i'd like to it's

627
00:28:22,319 --> 00:28:26,759
balancing life with poker. I think to really get to

628
00:28:26,799 --> 00:28:28,920
the very top, you need to be completely kind of

629
00:28:28,960 --> 00:28:31,440
obsessive with poker. And I am sure some of these

630
00:28:31,440 --> 00:28:33,279
guys who are the top also have families, so I

631
00:28:33,319 --> 00:28:36,359
can't just use that as a crutch. But I have

632
00:28:36,759 --> 00:28:40,079
sort of shifted some of my It's not to say

633
00:28:40,119 --> 00:28:41,319
I would never want to try and do that. I

634
00:28:41,319 --> 00:28:43,200
think in No Limit it's fair to say I would

635
00:28:43,200 --> 00:28:45,119
never really try to get to that level just because

636
00:28:45,519 --> 00:28:47,359
I feel like I'm at a big enough disadvantage in

637
00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:49,920
terms of like the highest stakes no limit stuff like

638
00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:52,160
playing against the Mattaoss and the Chidwicks and all the

639
00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:54,359
guys who have been doing it for so long. But

640
00:28:54,640 --> 00:28:57,720
I do want to be the best mixed game tournament

641
00:28:57,720 --> 00:29:00,960
player or the best PLO tournament player, and there's probably

642
00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:04,359
more I could be doing behind the scenes to get

643
00:29:04,440 --> 00:29:06,799
up to that speed. But then you know, I'm also

644
00:29:06,839 --> 00:29:09,559
mixing that with kind of a newfound love for commentating.

645
00:29:09,799 --> 00:29:13,240
Speaker 2: So commentating is really fun as someone who's done a

646
00:29:13,279 --> 00:29:15,519
lot of it. I don't know why they keep asking me,

647
00:29:15,559 --> 00:29:18,200
but I love it again. But one of the things

648
00:29:18,200 --> 00:29:21,839
that I love about doing commentary with you, it's almost

649
00:29:21,880 --> 00:29:24,480
as if I'm in a coaching session, but it's kind

650
00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:27,279
of very natural. You're not laying it on too thick,

651
00:29:27,519 --> 00:29:30,720
but you always seem to have a response or a reaction,

652
00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:33,200
and your mind works so quick, and you know you

653
00:29:33,240 --> 00:29:34,960
and I have done PLO, so that's my sort of

654
00:29:34,960 --> 00:29:36,440
point of reference. And I've watched a lot of your

655
00:29:36,440 --> 00:29:39,559
trident and stuff. But what I find so interesting is

656
00:29:39,599 --> 00:29:43,960
that when I listen to you, I wonder, you know,

657
00:29:44,279 --> 00:29:46,279
what else is there that you would need to add

658
00:29:46,319 --> 00:29:48,759
in order to get better, because it seems as though

659
00:29:48,799 --> 00:29:51,079
you sort of always have the answer. Is there then

660
00:29:51,119 --> 00:29:55,720
a disconnect between application and what you know when the

661
00:29:55,759 --> 00:29:57,279
information has just presented you in that way?

662
00:29:57,400 --> 00:30:00,799
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think I think Alex Fox and tweet something recently,

663
00:30:01,079 --> 00:30:04,440
or said something recently in an interview, whatever it was

664
00:30:04,680 --> 00:30:08,119
about how the difference between a great player and a

665
00:30:08,119 --> 00:30:10,000
world class player, or a good player and a great player,

666
00:30:10,039 --> 00:30:15,440
whatever it was, is just all execution. And I believe

667
00:30:15,480 --> 00:30:19,480
that for sure. You know, I think it's way easier

668
00:30:19,519 --> 00:30:21,160
from the booth when you can see the cards and

669
00:30:23,200 --> 00:30:25,440
you know there's always some amount of variance. But I

670
00:30:25,440 --> 00:30:26,960
try not to harp on that. I try not to

671
00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:29,160
use that as a crutch. Ever. I know, for a

672
00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:31,200
while one of my leaks was when I got short

673
00:30:31,240 --> 00:30:35,640
on chips, I didn't have the same commitment to making

674
00:30:35,680 --> 00:30:37,920
every decision as well as I could as when i've

675
00:30:37,960 --> 00:30:39,880
I've always been very comfortable playing a big stack. I

676
00:30:39,920 --> 00:30:41,880
know that some people have the opposite, where they're actually

677
00:30:41,960 --> 00:30:44,079
very comfortable grinding a short stack because they the decisions

678
00:30:44,079 --> 00:30:46,559
are kind of clean, and then they get like uncomfortable,

679
00:30:46,559 --> 00:30:47,960
they feel pressure when they have a big stack. That's

680
00:30:47,960 --> 00:30:49,480
never been the case for me. I always want to

681
00:30:49,480 --> 00:30:52,000
have a big stack. So maybe this year I found

682
00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:53,960
myself even kind of leaning back into some old traits

683
00:30:53,960 --> 00:30:56,400
where when I get short on chips, I'm just not

684
00:30:56,839 --> 00:31:00,240
quite as patient as I need to be. And you know,

685
00:31:00,319 --> 00:31:03,000
for whatever reason, this has been kind of a flat

686
00:31:03,160 --> 00:31:05,920
WSP with the exception of that PPC cash. It's been

687
00:31:05,920 --> 00:31:09,000
disappointing because I played all most of the ten case

688
00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:11,759
certainly not all of them, but you know, to not

689
00:31:11,799 --> 00:31:15,759
cash any ten case so far is not great and

690
00:31:15,839 --> 00:31:17,480
I have a pretty good record in those over the

691
00:31:17,559 --> 00:31:21,480
years before that, so I have to maybe just you know,

692
00:31:21,559 --> 00:31:23,599
reflect on it after the series, although still in the

693
00:31:23,599 --> 00:31:26,400
main event. I got some one fifty k in the

694
00:31:26,440 --> 00:31:28,880
main after yesterday, so maybe if I can just save

695
00:31:28,920 --> 00:31:30,799
it for that one, then I'll forget about all those

696
00:31:30,799 --> 00:31:31,240
other ten.

697
00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:32,880
Speaker 2: Case at least, you know, you know how to do

698
00:31:32,920 --> 00:31:33,680
the trick in that event.

699
00:31:33,799 --> 00:31:36,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I mean I looked at my table drop

700
00:31:36,079 --> 00:31:38,799
for tomorrow. Looks great, So I feel pretty good about the.

701
00:31:38,799 --> 00:31:44,759
Speaker 2: Main Is there a room for adrenaline in decision making

702
00:31:45,680 --> 00:31:48,920
in the stakes that you play? And is adrenaline something

703
00:31:48,960 --> 00:31:51,359
that you can either sort of accept or or step

704
00:31:51,400 --> 00:31:54,680
away from? Is it an advantage or disadvantage? I feel

705
00:31:54,720 --> 00:31:58,240
like it's not often talked about enough as to how

706
00:31:58,279 --> 00:32:01,480
it really feels to be in big decisions.

707
00:32:01,960 --> 00:32:05,799
Speaker 1: Yeah, adrenaline is crazy, right, because it just keeps going

708
00:32:05,880 --> 00:32:07,599
up as you get deeper and deeper into the tournament,

709
00:32:08,839 --> 00:32:12,039
I feel personally more locked in the further along I

710
00:32:12,079 --> 00:32:14,319
am in a tournament, So I think I thrive off

711
00:32:14,319 --> 00:32:15,079
of adrenaline.

712
00:32:15,480 --> 00:32:16,359
Speaker 2: Is what is adrenaline?

713
00:32:16,400 --> 00:32:16,519
Speaker 1: Then?

714
00:32:16,519 --> 00:32:19,440
Speaker 2: In that context, is it perhaps a heightened sense of

715
00:32:19,480 --> 00:32:22,319
focus or is it something else that happens when you're

716
00:32:22,319 --> 00:32:22,880
in that zone?

717
00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:26,039
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think I would describe it as a heightened

718
00:32:26,039 --> 00:32:29,880
sense of focus and alertness. I just feel more. I mean,

719
00:32:30,079 --> 00:32:32,680
maybe I'm misunderstanding exactly what adrenaline is, but to me,

720
00:32:32,759 --> 00:32:37,119
when I have adrenaline, I am more awake, but also

721
00:32:37,200 --> 00:32:40,279
more common a way, right That does that sound right?

722
00:32:40,279 --> 00:32:46,000
I don't know it sounds yeah, and I'm not, but yeah, yeah,

723
00:32:46,079 --> 00:32:50,599
Nature's adderall. There was this Nelly Korda, the LPG golfer.

724
00:32:50,680 --> 00:32:53,960
She had this great quote about They asked her, like,

725
00:32:54,000 --> 00:32:56,200
you know what she did when she won the tournament?

726
00:32:57,000 --> 00:32:58,519
Did she go out and party? And she said, no,

727
00:32:58,640 --> 00:33:00,599
you know what it was. I just went and laid

728
00:33:00,599 --> 00:33:02,640
in my hotel room with my phone on the side,

729
00:33:02,759 --> 00:33:05,440
and I just relaxed and I just like fell asleep.

730
00:33:05,519 --> 00:33:07,519
She said it. She said, it's the craziest thing when

731
00:33:07,559 --> 00:33:09,640
you win a tournament because it's like you have this

732
00:33:09,759 --> 00:33:11,720
surge of adrenaline that has just built up as the

733
00:33:11,720 --> 00:33:13,440
tournament goes on, and when you win, it just all

734
00:33:13,519 --> 00:33:16,799
leaves your body and you almost feel like this happened

735
00:33:16,799 --> 00:33:18,000
to me After I got third in the main I

736
00:33:18,039 --> 00:33:20,160
felt like a little empty for a few days, maybe

737
00:33:20,200 --> 00:33:24,200
even like maybe a few months. For being honest, there

738
00:33:24,200 --> 00:33:28,119
were like some sort of dark periods internally because that

739
00:33:28,279 --> 00:33:30,559
excitement has just been building and then when it no

740
00:33:30,599 --> 00:33:32,319
matter what the result is, if you win the tournament,

741
00:33:32,359 --> 00:33:36,119
even there's like a crash after that. So I don't know.

742
00:33:36,839 --> 00:33:40,119
Speaker 2: I love how you brought in the main event run

743
00:33:40,160 --> 00:33:42,079
in twenty nineteen because I wrote an article and I

744
00:33:42,079 --> 00:33:44,359
talked to you right after you busted the title that

745
00:33:44,400 --> 00:33:48,640
I used was in disbelief and overwhelmed Alex Livings the

746
00:33:48,640 --> 00:33:52,799
finish just third in the main event. Obviously, unless you win,

747
00:33:53,200 --> 00:33:56,000
you're going to have some sort of what if going

748
00:33:56,039 --> 00:33:59,039
through your mind or at least reflection to the point

749
00:33:59,079 --> 00:34:02,720
as to you know, what could have been different? But

750
00:34:03,559 --> 00:34:07,319
take take me back to the moment where you know

751
00:34:07,400 --> 00:34:09,719
that it's over because you're in a two week run,

752
00:34:10,280 --> 00:34:14,400
low on sleep, you're eating when you can, and you're

753
00:34:14,400 --> 00:34:19,480
trying to both focus and analyze while the brakes are

754
00:34:19,480 --> 00:34:21,880
too short to somethings even use the bathroom. And then

755
00:34:21,920 --> 00:34:23,800
all of a sudden, that all comes to a head

756
00:34:23,840 --> 00:34:27,320
when the final card hits and it's over. Is it

757
00:34:27,400 --> 00:34:29,920
sort of like someone turns the lights on or turns

758
00:34:29,960 --> 00:34:30,360
them off.

759
00:34:30,880 --> 00:34:33,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, this bracelet ceremony in the background is gonna be

760
00:34:33,480 --> 00:34:37,639
a little bit distracting. But I don't totally remember the

761
00:34:37,719 --> 00:34:39,800
exact moment when I bust. I know I got Ace

762
00:34:39,920 --> 00:34:44,119
jack in against Ace Queen standard sort of spot the

763
00:34:44,519 --> 00:34:46,639
hand before that. It was like a few hands before that,

764
00:34:48,360 --> 00:34:50,079
I played this big pot where I got all in

765
00:34:50,119 --> 00:34:53,800
on a Queen ten seven five two flush straw board

766
00:34:54,199 --> 00:34:58,559
with kings. I don't want to say I regret my decision,

767
00:34:58,599 --> 00:35:01,280
but Dario did this thing where I bet the turn.

768
00:35:01,360 --> 00:35:06,239
I think it was like Queen ten seven, I bet

769
00:35:06,320 --> 00:35:09,679
the flop small, he called out of the big blind

770
00:35:09,719 --> 00:35:12,960
turn five double flush straw he checks, I bet pot.

771
00:35:13,639 --> 00:35:15,599
He moves in for maybe like three and a half

772
00:35:15,840 --> 00:35:18,599
x my bet, and it's a computer call, and it's like,

773
00:35:20,000 --> 00:35:21,719
for sure a call in theory, and I didn't want

774
00:35:21,719 --> 00:35:24,079
a slow roll, and I and I just kind of

775
00:35:24,119 --> 00:35:26,039
called instantly. But he did this thing when he went

776
00:35:26,039 --> 00:35:28,920
all in, where he did this like triangle motion with

777
00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:31,880
his fingers, like signifying the all in button, and like

778
00:35:32,360 --> 00:35:34,679
something in my brain said, this is just really strong,

779
00:35:34,760 --> 00:35:36,599
like because obviously I'm hoping to be up against a

780
00:35:36,639 --> 00:35:38,760
combo draw, not two pair, or hoping to sometime be

781
00:35:38,840 --> 00:35:40,760
up against the Queen. But it felt strong, and so

782
00:35:41,639 --> 00:35:43,159
I don't know if I could go back. Maybe I

783
00:35:43,400 --> 00:35:45,880
just give myself a moment to think there and not

784
00:35:45,920 --> 00:35:48,440
worry about nitrolling somebody when you're playing for a six

785
00:35:48,440 --> 00:35:51,920
million dollars pay jump. But yeah, and then the actual

786
00:35:51,920 --> 00:35:54,039
bust out hand I think was pretty standard and there

787
00:35:54,079 --> 00:35:55,360
was a bit of a blur. I remember I did

788
00:35:55,440 --> 00:35:57,800
an interview with you and a bunch of other people

789
00:35:57,840 --> 00:36:00,639
asking questions, a big crowd. Yeah, and then we went

790
00:36:00,679 --> 00:36:03,719
to top Golf and had a good time. But I

791
00:36:03,719 --> 00:36:05,719
still felt pretty good at that point. But like it's

792
00:36:05,800 --> 00:36:09,760
like a few days later, you're just you're missing being

793
00:36:09,760 --> 00:36:11,239
in the moment, right. We all want to be in

794
00:36:11,320 --> 00:36:13,360
that in that moment, that's what we play for. So

795
00:36:13,400 --> 00:36:16,119
when it's over, it feels a little weird. So as

796
00:36:16,119 --> 00:36:18,159
the version of the ceremony is going on, and hopefully

797
00:36:18,199 --> 00:36:19,679
that didn't impact the audio of this.

798
00:36:20,039 --> 00:36:21,920
Speaker 2: Hit adds to it, you know, Okay, like in this,

799
00:36:22,119 --> 00:36:22,920
in this moment.

800
00:36:22,639 --> 00:36:25,119
Speaker 1: And we're really here, I should put my WSP hoodie

801
00:36:25,159 --> 00:36:25,400
back on.

802
00:36:25,519 --> 00:36:28,320
Speaker 2: Please, where's your where are your bracelets?

803
00:36:28,360 --> 00:36:29,719
Speaker 1: Yeah? Exactly, Yeah, yeah, I should have.

804
00:36:30,679 --> 00:36:32,800
Speaker 2: The thing about this your main Event final table is

805
00:36:32,840 --> 00:36:37,039
that it was a unique lineup as I look back

806
00:36:37,079 --> 00:36:40,239
on it now, with sort of a blend between players

807
00:36:40,239 --> 00:36:44,159
that are accustomed to different stakes, players that might be underrated,

808
00:36:44,360 --> 00:36:47,199
players that might be seen as the favorite. And I

809
00:36:47,239 --> 00:36:49,760
think that you and and Dario were probably those two

810
00:36:49,760 --> 00:36:54,039
players coming into that final table. Did you have a

811
00:36:54,079 --> 00:36:55,559
sense of like, this is mine to win?

812
00:36:57,960 --> 00:36:59,559
Speaker 1: It was weird. I mean I had gone into the

813
00:36:59,599 --> 00:37:03,320
day before or thirty fifth of thirty six, I believe

814
00:37:03,400 --> 00:37:06,280
something like that. I was second last, and Chips ran

815
00:37:06,320 --> 00:37:09,920
amazing obviously beg fifth of nine. So at that point,

816
00:37:10,039 --> 00:37:13,199
just being there was like kind of shocking and incredible,

817
00:37:13,760 --> 00:37:15,639
and I don't know that I was thinking, I mean,

818
00:37:15,679 --> 00:37:17,960
of course you want to win, but now I'm just thinking, okay,

819
00:37:18,000 --> 00:37:19,519
I'm in the middle of the pack, Like how do

820
00:37:19,559 --> 00:37:21,719
we play this stack? Like, just thinking about it, more

821
00:37:21,719 --> 00:37:25,480
like that, I would say probably Jario Hossein and myself

822
00:37:25,519 --> 00:37:27,719
were the three best players I would I would think,

823
00:37:28,000 --> 00:37:29,840
And so we got for a second and third. It

824
00:37:29,880 --> 00:37:34,119
wasn't super surprising, but you know, you never know what's

825
00:37:34,159 --> 00:37:36,760
gonna happen in a final table, right, So certain by

826
00:37:36,800 --> 00:37:38,639
no means are the best players guaranteed to do well?

827
00:37:38,679 --> 00:37:40,159
Or by no means are the big stacks guaranteed to

828
00:37:40,199 --> 00:37:40,519
do well?

829
00:37:40,960 --> 00:37:43,519
Speaker 2: What does four million dollars due to someone's life?

830
00:37:43,760 --> 00:37:46,079
Speaker 1: Yeah, and again I'd sold some action, but it was

831
00:37:46,320 --> 00:37:49,000
in taxes, but it was huge. It was huge. I

832
00:37:49,079 --> 00:37:54,199
bought some real estate, and now I was obviously comfortable

833
00:37:54,199 --> 00:37:59,639
to play much higher stakes. And I kind of took

834
00:37:59,679 --> 00:38:02,239
a little time off that summer, and then I was

835
00:38:02,280 --> 00:38:04,559
wondering what I wanted to do poker wise, But it

836
00:38:04,599 --> 00:38:07,880
wasn't really until after COVID I started. I had a

837
00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:10,559
huge score at the win actually twenty twenty two, I

838
00:38:10,599 --> 00:38:12,880
got third in like the win main kind of thing

839
00:38:13,079 --> 00:38:15,079
for seven hundred and fifty K, and that kind of

840
00:38:15,119 --> 00:38:18,000
reignited my desire to play high stakes. And after that point,

841
00:38:18,000 --> 00:38:19,760
I said, you know what, what if I tried battling these

842
00:38:19,760 --> 00:38:21,960
guys in the studio, which is something I'd always considered,

843
00:38:22,360 --> 00:38:25,000
like those guys were in a different league, But I said,

844
00:38:25,000 --> 00:38:27,559
why don't I just try battling. In the first series

845
00:38:27,599 --> 00:38:29,400
I went there, I think I cashed four or five times,

846
00:38:29,400 --> 00:38:32,440
including in some nelimit events, and I felt pretty comfortable, honestly,

847
00:38:32,480 --> 00:38:35,159
And then that sort of led to me, Now I

848
00:38:35,199 --> 00:38:37,800
had a newfound purpose to chase higher stakes and to

849
00:38:37,800 --> 00:38:38,760
play more tournaments.

850
00:38:39,159 --> 00:38:41,880
Speaker 2: So then there's a point where you're asked to do

851
00:38:41,920 --> 00:38:45,960
a commentary, and I'm curious, what's it like to be

852
00:38:46,079 --> 00:38:49,239
asked to do that, and is there perhaps a sense

853
00:38:49,280 --> 00:38:54,280
of feeling like you need to perform and not let

854
00:38:54,320 --> 00:38:58,000
down those that watch this that are also really great players,

855
00:38:58,000 --> 00:39:00,440
Because it can sometimes feel like there was a pressure.

856
00:39:00,599 --> 00:39:03,079
Speaker 1: Yeah, it can, and I try not to feel. But

857
00:39:03,199 --> 00:39:04,599
it's kind of equated to kind of like being on

858
00:39:04,639 --> 00:39:06,800
a stream table. You know, all the eyes are on you,

859
00:39:06,880 --> 00:39:09,719
and if you do something quote unquote wrong, somebody might

860
00:39:09,760 --> 00:39:14,599
say something to you. I could maybe be even more

861
00:39:14,639 --> 00:39:17,719
honest with my opinions in the moment, but you don't

862
00:39:17,719 --> 00:39:21,280
want to be disrespectful to players, and so I try to.

863
00:39:21,800 --> 00:39:23,880
You know, I will disagree with the play sometimes, but

864
00:39:24,599 --> 00:39:26,159
I try to at least see where they're coming from,

865
00:39:26,239 --> 00:39:30,119
and you know, not just be full on berating people.

866
00:39:31,440 --> 00:39:33,239
But yeah, it's a fine line, you know you want

867
00:39:33,280 --> 00:39:35,920
to be. I think Shulman just does it great. You know.

868
00:39:36,000 --> 00:39:38,440
He he gives insight in a way where you can

869
00:39:38,519 --> 00:39:40,440
kind of the way he talks, you know, you can

870
00:39:40,480 --> 00:39:43,719
kind of interpret things multiple ways, and he the language

871
00:39:43,719 --> 00:39:45,840
he uses is excellent. So I use him as kind

872
00:39:45,840 --> 00:39:48,639
of a role model for somebody who is just a

873
00:39:48,679 --> 00:39:50,760
great analyst in the booth, in the way that they

874
00:39:51,079 --> 00:39:56,320
conduct themselves professionally while still being entertaining, you know, providing insights. Yeah.

875
00:39:56,559 --> 00:39:58,679
Speaker 2: I mean there's so many elite commentators out there. I

876
00:39:58,679 --> 00:40:01,079
think you are among those as well. Appreciate that, and

877
00:40:01,800 --> 00:40:05,639
it's just fun to listen to someone who is able

878
00:40:05,679 --> 00:40:09,960
to almost like boil it down without dumbing it down. Yeah,

879
00:40:10,000 --> 00:40:11,840
you know, you still keep a sense of like the

880
00:40:11,880 --> 00:40:15,920
high levelness of what people are watching. Because oftentimes when

881
00:40:17,119 --> 00:40:20,599
I do commentary, and not to be too reflective, but

882
00:40:21,119 --> 00:40:23,079
when there's all a bunch of great players at the table,

883
00:40:23,320 --> 00:40:25,679
I'm like, who am I to say? Yeah, Like who

884
00:40:25,679 --> 00:40:27,239
am I to say literally anything?

885
00:40:27,440 --> 00:40:29,840
Speaker 1: And I think that's yeah, that's something to think about, Like,

886
00:40:29,920 --> 00:40:32,000
you know, how much you want to just let the

887
00:40:32,039 --> 00:40:34,119
players and the play do the talking, versus how much

888
00:40:34,159 --> 00:40:35,639
I want to do the talking, And it can depend

889
00:40:35,679 --> 00:40:38,440
based on the composition of the table. I can maybe

890
00:40:38,440 --> 00:40:42,920
depend based on my own expertise in the game. I

891
00:40:42,960 --> 00:40:44,639
think one of the things I try to do is

892
00:40:44,719 --> 00:40:49,840
offer commentary that can provide insight to strong players without

893
00:40:49,960 --> 00:40:52,719
scaring off weak players. So I try to be and

894
00:40:52,760 --> 00:40:54,840
I love when Allie and I going to the segues.

895
00:40:54,880 --> 00:40:57,320
He's the best at it. I mean, I like talking

896
00:40:57,320 --> 00:40:59,199
about things that aren't poker when I'm commentating. I think

897
00:40:59,199 --> 00:41:01,760
it's fun. Sometimes chat will start saying, come on, guys,

898
00:41:01,760 --> 00:41:03,920
focus on the poker, and you know, we'll get back there.

899
00:41:04,079 --> 00:41:07,079
But I think if you're just dry and monotonous in

900
00:41:07,159 --> 00:41:10,519
talking only about technical decisions, that's not what people want

901
00:41:10,559 --> 00:41:13,000
to see. Maybe if you're going too into the weeds,

902
00:41:13,000 --> 00:41:14,320
that's also not what they want to see. So it's

903
00:41:14,320 --> 00:41:16,880
all about trying to find those those balances and kind

904
00:41:16,880 --> 00:41:18,199
of meet in the middle on a lot of things.

905
00:41:18,760 --> 00:41:20,440
Speaker 2: As someone who's on both sides. You know, you play,

906
00:41:20,440 --> 00:41:22,280
you do commentary. You see the live chat, which is

907
00:41:22,320 --> 00:41:25,920
obviously huge as well, because that's like instant feedback. Yeah,

908
00:41:26,079 --> 00:41:29,840
what's what's the state of poker from a I guess

909
00:41:29,880 --> 00:41:32,599
fan perspective? Because I feel as though, correct me if

910
00:41:32,599 --> 00:41:36,360
I'm wrong, we're highly saturated with different things that we

911
00:41:36,440 --> 00:41:40,880
could be watching, and at the same time, are we

912
00:41:40,920 --> 00:41:42,760
focused on the right things as far as what do

913
00:41:42,800 --> 00:41:44,679
we show and how do we show it? What's your

914
00:41:44,760 --> 00:41:45,159
view on that?

915
00:41:45,559 --> 00:41:48,480
Speaker 1: Well, I think unquestionably everyone wants to see more mixed

916
00:41:48,480 --> 00:41:51,440
games at WSP, and from what I'm told, that's in

917
00:41:51,480 --> 00:41:53,840
the works for next year, so I look forward to that.

918
00:41:54,119 --> 00:41:57,039
Outside of that, you know, I think there's there's different

919
00:41:57,039 --> 00:41:59,760
things for different people. So you have these these high

920
00:41:59,760 --> 00:42:02,239
stakes cash games that have gotten quite big. A lot

921
00:42:02,239 --> 00:42:03,760
of them are in LA and that kind of thing,

922
00:42:03,800 --> 00:42:05,920
and you know, there's certain people that love watching those.

923
00:42:05,960 --> 00:42:09,039
It's not for me, but I completely understand why people

924
00:42:09,039 --> 00:42:11,599
would want to watch those. You have the vloggers and

925
00:42:11,639 --> 00:42:13,559
the streamers. I think that's a really cool addition to

926
00:42:13,599 --> 00:42:18,639
the space. And then in terms of tournaments, I personally

927
00:42:18,639 --> 00:42:21,400
would like to see more earlier day coverage, So something

928
00:42:21,440 --> 00:42:22,920
like the PPC I think you should do from day

929
00:42:22,920 --> 00:42:25,719
one because it really gives people a good foundational understanding

930
00:42:25,719 --> 00:42:27,559
of mixed games. Of course, the main event from day one,

931
00:42:27,559 --> 00:42:30,360
which they do. I'd like to see more, say a

932
00:42:30,400 --> 00:42:33,159
PLO event like a fifty K one hunter KPLO do

933
00:42:33,199 --> 00:42:35,199
a little bit of day one coverage or do a

934
00:42:35,199 --> 00:42:38,800
full day two coverage, because the problem with final tables

935
00:42:38,840 --> 00:42:41,519
is that they can be very ICM driven. You see

936
00:42:41,559 --> 00:42:43,039
a lot of tighter folds and you just see a

937
00:42:43,039 --> 00:42:45,719
lot of more careful play. So I think covering early

938
00:42:45,800 --> 00:42:47,840
levels you get to see kind of like how the

939
00:42:47,840 --> 00:42:50,039
games are actually played, how they're played in cash games,

940
00:42:50,480 --> 00:42:53,880
how they're played without all this ICM focus, and it's

941
00:42:53,880 --> 00:42:56,960
more exciting, more entertaining, and you know, deeper stack depths.

942
00:42:56,960 --> 00:42:58,519
It's just always a little bit better to me.

943
00:42:58,599 --> 00:43:01,760
Speaker 2: For someone who focuses on mixed game and PLO. Obviously

944
00:43:02,159 --> 00:43:04,679
that's not a thing in the cash game world unless

945
00:43:04,719 --> 00:43:08,199
you can play in Bobby's room and you know, similar

946
00:43:08,239 --> 00:43:12,239
games that are happening in Vegas perhaps, and I think PLO,

947
00:43:12,400 --> 00:43:14,519
as far as I know, might even be more difficult

948
00:43:14,599 --> 00:43:16,639
to get a high stakes game going that's truly high

949
00:43:16,679 --> 00:43:19,440
stakes and that truly is available to people to play.

950
00:43:20,360 --> 00:43:23,599
Are there enough opportunities for players like yourself to make

951
00:43:23,639 --> 00:43:27,159
a living not having to constantly, you know, fight for

952
00:43:27,320 --> 00:43:28,000
small edges.

953
00:43:29,199 --> 00:43:31,320
Speaker 1: I dabble in a few private games here and there.

954
00:43:31,679 --> 00:43:33,880
I'm definitely not like one of these people who's always

955
00:43:33,880 --> 00:43:36,800
trying to get into every private game. But if I

956
00:43:36,840 --> 00:43:38,440
have a friend who's running one and I can get in,

957
00:43:38,760 --> 00:43:42,400
I'll certainly play that sometimes. And then for public games,

958
00:43:42,639 --> 00:43:45,039
I think mix is actually an okay spot because you

959
00:43:45,079 --> 00:43:48,480
have there's a three hundred and six hour game in town.

960
00:43:48,679 --> 00:43:53,360
There's eighty one sixty games, so there's actually forty eighty.

961
00:43:53,360 --> 00:43:55,920
There's quite a few different levels in town that you

962
00:43:55,920 --> 00:43:58,039
can play publicly. I don't play the super high stakes

963
00:43:58,039 --> 00:44:02,400
like the Bobby's Room stuff anyway. So and then for PLO, yeah,

964
00:44:02,440 --> 00:44:05,800
I think there's pilo's kind of booming in other parts

965
00:44:05,840 --> 00:44:07,599
of the country, maybe more so than Vegas.

966
00:44:08,039 --> 00:44:10,360
Speaker 2: Is that an ambition for you to play more like

967
00:44:10,440 --> 00:44:13,239
high stakes like live PLO, because I feel like the

968
00:44:13,239 --> 00:44:15,719
tournaments are booming. But I mean this is also just

969
00:44:15,719 --> 00:44:18,000
from my perspective. You don't hear much about high stakes

970
00:44:18,039 --> 00:44:19,679
PLO cash because it's all private.

971
00:44:19,840 --> 00:44:24,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, so maybe I from just a making money perspective,

972
00:44:24,320 --> 00:44:27,079
I should be looking more into trying to get into

973
00:44:27,119 --> 00:44:29,960
more private games, but there's a whole bunch of politics

974
00:44:30,039 --> 00:44:32,800
and stuff that I don't necessarily want to involve myself with,

975
00:44:33,199 --> 00:44:35,119
and so I kind of just stick to the games

976
00:44:35,159 --> 00:44:37,760
I can already get into, and I don't have a

977
00:44:37,840 --> 00:44:40,679
huge ambition to play like the super highest Pero Cash

978
00:44:40,679 --> 00:44:41,599
games or anything like that.

979
00:44:41,840 --> 00:44:44,920
Speaker 2: Bobby's Room is a place that I have to mention

980
00:44:45,440 --> 00:44:49,239
it has so much lower It's something that speaks to

981
00:44:49,239 --> 00:44:54,440
the imagination. Has it ever been an ambition of you, yeah,

982
00:44:54,480 --> 00:44:57,159
to make it there, and perhaps maybe still.

983
00:44:57,000 --> 00:44:58,440
Speaker 1: It has been, and there was a time when I

984
00:44:58,480 --> 00:45:01,599
considered going in and check taking it. But to me,

985
00:45:01,639 --> 00:45:03,760
it's just such a big jump, right because I've played

986
00:45:04,519 --> 00:45:06,320
as high as four hundred eight hundre actual as hig

987
00:45:06,320 --> 00:45:09,039
as five hundred one K limit, but Bobby's Room is

988
00:45:09,119 --> 00:45:11,239
usually at least fifteen hundred and three K, and often

989
00:45:11,280 --> 00:45:14,079
more like three K six K. It's just it's huge.

990
00:45:14,079 --> 00:45:16,079
I mean, you're swinging. You can easily swing two or

991
00:45:16,119 --> 00:45:18,840
three und k in a session, and yeah, it's pretty

992
00:45:18,840 --> 00:45:21,320
easy to do that. And I just don't know, I

993
00:45:21,320 --> 00:45:23,199
don't have the ambition right now to play that big.

994
00:45:23,199 --> 00:45:26,119
I don't have the role to play that big right now,

995
00:45:27,400 --> 00:45:31,320
so I look at tournaments is a great opportunity, and

996
00:45:32,239 --> 00:45:35,840
I can play some some cash games as well, can commentate,

997
00:45:36,599 --> 00:45:38,480
do some coaching. Kind of dabbling in a lot of

998
00:45:38,480 --> 00:45:42,800
things right now, which you can argue would maybe impede

999
00:45:42,800 --> 00:45:44,679
my if I wanted to just be the best at

1000
00:45:44,719 --> 00:45:46,280
one thing, it might be better to be a bit

1001
00:45:46,280 --> 00:45:50,159
more singularly focused. But I kind of enjoy a lot

1002
00:45:50,159 --> 00:45:52,320
of the different things I'm dabbling in, and I think

1003
00:45:52,320 --> 00:45:54,679
that's half a battle too, is making sure you're staying

1004
00:45:54,679 --> 00:45:55,440
fresh and having fun.

1005
00:45:57,800 --> 00:45:59,559
Speaker 2: People that watch this might think like, oh, you know

1006
00:45:59,599 --> 00:46:01,800
this guy with a college in Boston, and you mentioned

1007
00:46:01,840 --> 00:46:03,320
like a lot of things happening in the US, but

1008
00:46:03,719 --> 00:46:07,519
proud Nova Scotia is is on your Instagram bio. Yeah,

1009
00:46:07,639 --> 00:46:10,679
I want to pivot to like, you know, family and

1010
00:46:11,199 --> 00:46:13,599
sort of know where you're from. And I find that

1011
00:46:13,800 --> 00:46:16,719
really interesting because first off, I don't think there's many

1012
00:46:17,039 --> 00:46:22,000
pocal pros from Nova Scotia. And I'm also curious why

1013
00:46:22,039 --> 00:46:23,880
you feel that's important to mention.

1014
00:46:24,440 --> 00:46:26,480
Speaker 1: Well, I still live in Nova Scotia, so I got

1015
00:46:26,480 --> 00:46:31,320
recently engaged and my fiance Julia and I live in

1016
00:46:31,360 --> 00:46:34,599
her hometown, like where she grew up in New Glasgow,

1017
00:46:34,599 --> 00:46:36,199
which is about an hour and a half from Halifax,

1018
00:46:36,239 --> 00:46:39,360
which is the big city in the area. So and

1019
00:46:39,440 --> 00:46:41,880
I've spent huge chunk of my life in Nova Scotia.

1020
00:46:41,880 --> 00:46:43,400
Even when I was living in Vegas, I was going

1021
00:46:43,440 --> 00:46:45,519
back to Nova Scotia for at least a month every summer.

1022
00:46:46,360 --> 00:46:48,840
It's a very very special place to me. I hate

1023
00:46:48,840 --> 00:46:51,000
that WSP is this time of year. You know, there's

1024
00:46:51,000 --> 00:46:52,880
that one year it was in November during COVID and

1025
00:46:52,880 --> 00:46:54,480
that was amazing because I could spend the whole summer

1026
00:46:54,480 --> 00:46:57,400
in Nova Scotia. So, you know, as much as I travel,

1027
00:46:57,519 --> 00:47:00,320
I do still live in Nova Scotia. It means a

1028
00:47:00,360 --> 00:47:02,320
lot to me. The people are great, It's where I

1029
00:47:02,360 --> 00:47:04,639
was raised, it's you know, home is always going to

1030
00:47:04,719 --> 00:47:07,000
feel special, I think in a certain way. I love

1031
00:47:07,039 --> 00:47:08,559
the food there, I love the summers there.

1032
00:47:08,920 --> 00:47:12,360
Speaker 2: So for those watching, who I mean most people have

1033
00:47:12,440 --> 00:47:16,119
never considered probably going there. If they're visiting, what kind

1034
00:47:16,119 --> 00:47:18,599
of experience are they getting and what's the Alex Livingston

1035
00:47:19,000 --> 00:47:20,159
pitch on Nova Scotia.

1036
00:47:20,239 --> 00:47:21,719
Speaker 1: Well, if you're a golfer, you definitely want to go

1037
00:47:21,719 --> 00:47:23,639
play Cabot Links and Cabot Cliffs. I actually have a

1038
00:47:23,639 --> 00:47:26,760
rental property up there and people that is when people

1039
00:47:26,760 --> 00:47:29,159
tell me they've been in Nova Scotia. If they're a golfer,

1040
00:47:29,159 --> 00:47:31,320
that's probably the reason they've been there. But if you're

1041
00:47:31,360 --> 00:47:34,119
not a golfer, I would say, just go for the seafood,

1042
00:47:34,199 --> 00:47:37,960
the people, the music. You'd want to go see Halifax

1043
00:47:38,000 --> 00:47:40,079
and see all the restaurants and breweries there, and then

1044
00:47:40,119 --> 00:47:43,599
also make it up to Cape Breton, which is kind

1045
00:47:43,599 --> 00:47:45,760
of an island on the northeast tip of Nova Scotia,

1046
00:47:46,079 --> 00:47:48,239
and it's just got rugged beauty. You can drive around

1047
00:47:48,320 --> 00:47:51,559
the Cabbot Trail and do hikes and see that. And

1048
00:47:51,559 --> 00:47:54,679
then we've got vineyards, and we've got the South Shore

1049
00:47:54,760 --> 00:47:57,119
which has you know, you can go out on a sailboat.

1050
00:47:57,519 --> 00:48:00,440
It's just an amazing time. Some of the cruise ships there,

1051
00:48:00,639 --> 00:48:02,639
but it's an amazing time to visit between you know,

1052
00:48:02,760 --> 00:48:04,360
June and October. I'd say so.

1053
00:48:04,480 --> 00:48:08,719
Speaker 2: Then, with the family life and maybe being a bit

1054
00:48:08,760 --> 00:48:12,800
more home than focused and being engaged, do you think

1055
00:48:12,840 --> 00:48:16,159
that long term poker will always fit into that? Have

1056
00:48:16,239 --> 00:48:17,800
you ever considered stepping away?

1057
00:48:17,920 --> 00:48:19,679
Speaker 1: I can't see myself stepping away because I don't know

1058
00:48:19,679 --> 00:48:21,679
what I would do, and I do think I'm pretty

1059
00:48:21,679 --> 00:48:24,000
deeply ingrained in the poker world. I could see a

1060
00:48:24,039 --> 00:48:26,679
world in which maybe we end up spending more time

1061
00:48:26,719 --> 00:48:28,800
somewhere else that's not Nova Scotia, And then still I

1062
00:48:28,800 --> 00:48:31,480
would still always want to go back there in summers. Yeah,

1063
00:48:31,480 --> 00:48:34,239
because it's been a little bit challenging for you know,

1064
00:48:34,239 --> 00:48:36,679
where Julia's home all the time and I'm commentating and

1065
00:48:36,679 --> 00:48:38,840
I'm here for WSP and we have two dogs, and

1066
00:48:39,199 --> 00:48:41,800
she's actually fostering a third dog, Josh, right now. So

1067
00:48:41,960 --> 00:48:44,000
if any of thee wants, you'll have three dogs. If

1068
00:48:44,000 --> 00:48:47,360
anyone wants a dog, Josh is available. Yea, we may

1069
00:48:47,599 --> 00:48:51,119
you never tell. We're y. So it's a little harder

1070
00:48:51,119 --> 00:48:53,639
for her to come travel with me. But I think

1071
00:48:53,639 --> 00:48:56,400
down the road, maybe we spend more time somewhere else. Uh.

1072
00:48:56,679 --> 00:49:01,400
But you know, I always love being there, and I

1073
00:49:01,440 --> 00:49:03,599
think it's good for me too. I think that, like

1074
00:49:03,719 --> 00:49:05,960
I always look at my I see you're wearing a

1075
00:49:05,960 --> 00:49:08,280
whoop as well, and like I've got one too in

1076
00:49:08,320 --> 00:49:10,000
the recovery scores when I'm in when I'm home in

1077
00:49:10,039 --> 00:49:12,519
Nova Scotia, I get into the nineties regularly, and when

1078
00:49:12,519 --> 00:49:15,800
I'm here, I rarely get above seventy. Have you found

1079
00:49:15,800 --> 00:49:18,000
that too, like different you do well in different places.

1080
00:49:18,440 --> 00:49:21,800
Speaker 2: For me, it's been about like, where's my focus?

1081
00:49:21,840 --> 00:49:22,039
Speaker 1: Lie?

1082
00:49:22,159 --> 00:49:25,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, like WSP of course we're here every day. Yeah,

1083
00:49:25,400 --> 00:49:29,760
it might be Leslie, you're not as routine that you're

1084
00:49:29,840 --> 00:49:32,679
used to. And you know, when I was training for

1085
00:49:32,840 --> 00:49:36,360
a big race, I noticed that even though I'm training

1086
00:49:36,440 --> 00:49:40,159
much harder, I'm also recovering harder. Yeah, because you're so

1087
00:49:40,239 --> 00:49:42,599
focused on that. Yeah, it makes sense, and here you're

1088
00:49:42,599 --> 00:49:45,320
sort of guided by the day to day at the WSOP.

1089
00:49:45,760 --> 00:49:48,039
Speaker 1: I think I just have trouble relaxing in Vegas, and

1090
00:49:48,119 --> 00:49:50,440
I'm much more relaxed when I'm home in Nova Scotia,

1091
00:49:50,519 --> 00:49:52,599
So it's always important for me to spend time there

1092
00:49:52,679 --> 00:49:56,079
to recharge. The issue is it's harder to work, you know,

1093
00:49:56,119 --> 00:49:58,679
I have to either play online or to coaching. There

1094
00:49:58,760 --> 00:50:01,039
is a couple live I can get into, but they're

1095
00:50:01,039 --> 00:50:01,559
pretty small.

1096
00:50:01,920 --> 00:50:04,559
Speaker 2: So one thing that I find interesting is I'm also

1097
00:50:04,559 --> 00:50:07,039
from a really small town. But I've never won millions

1098
00:50:07,039 --> 00:50:09,800
of dollars, so no one ever comes knocking on my

1099
00:50:09,840 --> 00:50:12,920
door for any help. But you have. What's it like

1100
00:50:13,000 --> 00:50:18,239
to become a celebrity or or at least become known

1101
00:50:18,320 --> 00:50:20,760
for being the guy who won millions of dollars when

1102
00:50:20,800 --> 00:50:23,760
you're when you're from a place where I feel as though,

1103
00:50:24,039 --> 00:50:27,199
you know, if if there's a garbage can knocked over,

1104
00:50:27,519 --> 00:50:30,039
you know, people will find out about it, because small

1105
00:50:30,039 --> 00:50:31,400
things become much bigger.

1106
00:50:31,559 --> 00:50:33,639
Speaker 1: Yeah, but I think people are people are just very

1107
00:50:33,760 --> 00:50:36,840
kind in Nova Scotia, So I did. I did not

1108
00:50:36,960 --> 00:50:39,719
get inundated with a bunch of people asking to borrow

1109
00:50:39,760 --> 00:50:41,679
money or invest in businesses. There were a couple here

1110
00:50:41,679 --> 00:50:43,639
and there, but that wasn't something that I had to

1111
00:50:43,679 --> 00:50:45,719
deal with by any means. I was able to help

1112
00:50:45,760 --> 00:50:48,719
people a little bit during COVID because you know, it

1113
00:50:48,840 --> 00:50:51,079
happened shortly after my main bank and there were people

1114
00:50:51,079 --> 00:50:53,400
that were struggling. So I was able to help the

1115
00:50:53,480 --> 00:50:55,960
local community a little bit, which which felt great. I

1116
00:50:56,159 --> 00:50:58,119
don't think anything really changed in my day to day life,

1117
00:50:58,159 --> 00:50:59,800
and I don't think people really treated me differently, And

1118
00:50:59,840 --> 00:51:01,559
I hope that I didn't treat people differently, and I

1119
00:51:01,559 --> 00:51:04,719
think that sort of speaks to what Nova Scotia's value

1120
00:51:04,760 --> 00:51:07,840
system is. You know, it's not a materialistic place at all.

1121
00:51:08,440 --> 00:51:12,239
So people are happy for me and congratulations, but it

1122
00:51:12,280 --> 00:51:15,000
doesn't really change my interactions with people. And I think

1123
00:51:15,039 --> 00:51:18,880
that is. Yeah, you'd have to just go meet people

1124
00:51:18,880 --> 00:51:21,199
from Nova Scotia. I mean, you're from the Netherlands, right,

1125
00:51:21,280 --> 00:51:23,719
so I'm sure people are pretty similar to that there.

1126
00:51:24,119 --> 00:51:25,800
I feel like it's pretty down to earth people there

1127
00:51:25,840 --> 00:51:26,199
as well.

1128
00:51:26,280 --> 00:51:30,119
Speaker 2: In the Netherlands that people often say that if your

1129
00:51:30,119 --> 00:51:32,679
head's above the tall grass, you know, they'll get chopped down.

1130
00:51:32,800 --> 00:51:34,679
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I like that.

1131
00:51:35,039 --> 00:51:40,039
Speaker 2: It's also a situation where people in the Netherlands. I'm

1132
00:51:40,039 --> 00:51:41,920
not sure how it is where you're from, but in

1133
00:51:41,960 --> 00:51:46,119
the Netherlands they almost are telling you to just act normal,

1134
00:51:46,159 --> 00:51:50,000
even if you celebrate success. So it's almost hard to

1135
00:51:50,320 --> 00:51:55,039
be proud sometimes because people see sort of outward success

1136
00:51:55,159 --> 00:51:58,039
as like bragging or you know, you're trying to flex.

1137
00:51:58,519 --> 00:52:00,960
Speaker 1: I could see that. I think maybe there's something similar

1138
00:52:00,960 --> 00:52:02,400
with that. I certainly. I would say like a lot

1139
00:52:02,400 --> 00:52:05,519
of the wealthiest people that I know or I'm familiar

1140
00:52:05,599 --> 00:52:08,519
with in Halifax, they don't act like it or dress

1141
00:52:08,639 --> 00:52:11,239
like it, or you know, have the flashy cars. It's

1142
00:52:11,400 --> 00:52:16,199
very different than what you might have here in Vegas.

1143
00:52:16,280 --> 00:52:19,039
It's kind of a very materialistic city kind of my definition, right,

1144
00:52:19,320 --> 00:52:21,480
not to say that there aren't great communities of down

1145
00:52:21,519 --> 00:52:24,159
to earth people, and I mean it's Vegas has just

1146
00:52:24,199 --> 00:52:25,719
never been my place that I would want to sort

1147
00:52:25,760 --> 00:52:27,480
of settle down long term. It's never been.

1148
00:52:27,800 --> 00:52:29,280
Speaker 2: The outdoors here is underrated though.

1149
00:52:29,280 --> 00:52:33,159
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, no, and the golf and the I completely understand

1150
00:52:33,159 --> 00:52:34,840
why people like living in Vegas. I have a lot

1151
00:52:34,880 --> 00:52:37,320
of good friends who live here, and all the reasons

1152
00:52:37,360 --> 00:52:40,079
make sense, but it just doesn't The city doesn't draw

1153
00:52:40,119 --> 00:52:40,639
me in that way.

1154
00:52:40,719 --> 00:52:43,480
Speaker 2: Of course. A few small, small final things before I

1155
00:52:43,599 --> 00:52:45,320
let you go, And it's been a really interesting conversation.

1156
00:52:45,800 --> 00:52:49,400
You mentioned on a different podcast that you were considering

1157
00:52:49,400 --> 00:52:53,719
writing a book about the poker lifestyle, not the strategy

1158
00:52:54,480 --> 00:52:56,280
what I mean. I'm not sure if you're still thinking

1159
00:52:56,280 --> 00:52:59,440
about that, but what sort of ideas that you have

1160
00:52:59,719 --> 00:53:03,440
when you had those thoughts, and you know, give us

1161
00:53:03,440 --> 00:53:04,000
some more context.

1162
00:53:04,039 --> 00:53:06,199
Speaker 1: Well, I think Garrett Adelstein beat me to the punch now, right.

1163
00:53:06,239 --> 00:53:07,639
I was going to write the first book about the

1164
00:53:07,639 --> 00:53:10,559
poker lifestyle, and he just wrote one and he's promoting it.

1165
00:53:10,760 --> 00:53:12,400
I don't know. I was going to tell stories like

1166
00:53:12,440 --> 00:53:15,079
the time that I lost forty K playing beer pong

1167
00:53:15,119 --> 00:53:16,800
in twenty nine, when I had seventeen K to my

1168
00:53:16,880 --> 00:53:18,079
name and stuff like that.

1169
00:53:18,360 --> 00:53:20,159
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, you can't just gloss over that and

1170
00:53:20,159 --> 00:53:23,280
not tell the story. I mean, that's insane. Set the

1171
00:53:23,320 --> 00:53:23,840
scene for us.

1172
00:53:24,400 --> 00:53:26,239
Speaker 1: I mean, we had a rental house with ten or

1173
00:53:26,280 --> 00:53:28,880
twelve guys. I was twenty two, and one of the

1174
00:53:28,920 --> 00:53:31,320
guys wanted to bet on everything, and he kind of

1175
00:53:31,320 --> 00:53:33,079
told me at the beginning of the summer, He's like, look,

1176
00:53:33,360 --> 00:53:35,920
if the number gets high, we will settle for something less.

1177
00:53:35,920 --> 00:53:37,880
Don't worry about it. He was obviously kind of like

1178
00:53:37,960 --> 00:53:39,880
hustling me, and he was better than me. Made a

1179
00:53:39,880 --> 00:53:42,400
lot of things, and so we ended up playing beer pong,

1180
00:53:42,400 --> 00:53:44,000
and it started off at one hundred dollars or tw

1181
00:53:44,039 --> 00:53:46,559
hundred dollars a game, and we just kept doubling, and

1182
00:53:46,559 --> 00:53:48,840
eventually somehow we had I was thirty two K in

1183
00:53:48,880 --> 00:53:51,119
the whole, I don't know how, and he gave me

1184
00:53:51,159 --> 00:53:53,199
four to one on the next game, so I was

1185
00:53:53,199 --> 00:53:55,360
either going to get even for or I was going

1186
00:53:55,400 --> 00:54:00,400
to owe forty K. And we made all the shots too,

1187
00:54:00,480 --> 00:54:02,840
and we made all the shots. Did everyone know that

1188
00:54:02,880 --> 00:54:04,880
the bets were happening, yeah, but it was just me

1189
00:54:04,920 --> 00:54:06,360
and the guy betting big. The other guys might have

1190
00:54:06,360 --> 00:54:08,480
had one hundred bucks whatever. We made the shots, so

1191
00:54:08,480 --> 00:54:10,480
they had rebuttal they had to try to but we

1192
00:54:10,519 --> 00:54:13,159
had three cups left. Their first guy misses, so the

1193
00:54:13,159 --> 00:54:15,079
next guy to send it into overtime had to make

1194
00:54:15,119 --> 00:54:16,280
three cups in a row. And this is the guy

1195
00:54:16,280 --> 00:54:18,599
I was betting with. He made three in a row.

1196
00:54:18,880 --> 00:54:21,960
We went to overtime. We lost in overtime. I actually

1197
00:54:22,000 --> 00:54:24,280
cried that night, I mean I was this was all

1198
00:54:24,320 --> 00:54:28,039
my money and more. And that same year I punted

1199
00:54:28,079 --> 00:54:30,679
in the main event where on No Sleep I went

1200
00:54:30,679 --> 00:54:33,760
in there and reshoved fifty six big blinds. This is

1201
00:54:33,800 --> 00:54:37,679
another good story. But Chad Batista opens rip. Chad Battista

1202
00:54:37,719 --> 00:54:41,079
opens the hijack, and he was very, very very aggressive,

1203
00:54:41,360 --> 00:54:44,639
probably familiar with the name. A very loose passive player

1204
00:54:44,679 --> 00:54:47,400
calls cut off. Loose passive player calls button. And I

1205
00:54:47,440 --> 00:54:49,559
had whittled down my stack from thirty k was the

1206
00:54:49,559 --> 00:54:51,599
starting stack at the time, down to seventeen. We're just

1207
00:54:51,960 --> 00:54:55,400
coming back from dinner, so I got fifty six big linds.

1208
00:54:56,239 --> 00:54:57,679
I think he opened two and a half or maybe

1209
00:54:57,719 --> 00:54:59,320
even three x, so there was a lot out there,

1210
00:54:59,360 --> 00:55:01,559
I think two and a half. So I just thought

1211
00:55:01,559 --> 00:55:03,039
to myself, well, if I can get through Chad, I

1212
00:55:03,119 --> 00:55:04,679
know these other two guys are always folding, they would

1213
00:55:04,679 --> 00:55:07,039
have three bet their good hands, and so I just

1214
00:55:07,039 --> 00:55:09,119
shoved ten five off for fifty six lines, which is

1215
00:55:09,159 --> 00:55:11,599
like kind of crazy now thinking back on it. And

1216
00:55:11,639 --> 00:55:14,400
he Phil Hellmuth style calls me, you know, like the

1217
00:55:14,679 --> 00:55:17,199
Phil Helmuth like snap call or the chips are like,

1218
00:55:17,440 --> 00:55:18,880
he like beats me into the pot. So I'm like,

1219
00:55:18,920 --> 00:55:20,920
oh shit, I just ran into a monster. And then

1220
00:55:20,960 --> 00:55:23,639
he rolls over pocket eights, which at the time was

1221
00:55:23,840 --> 00:55:26,719
like a pretty amazing snap call. Like even now, I

1222
00:55:26,800 --> 00:55:28,880
don't think people would be a lot of people would

1223
00:55:28,880 --> 00:55:30,880
just fold of course, and certainly a lot of people

1224
00:55:30,880 --> 00:55:32,199
are not going to snap call. So that just shows

1225
00:55:32,239 --> 00:55:35,320
you his instincts. But that was a wild summer. So

1226
00:55:35,400 --> 00:55:37,400
I did not win that hand, and that was my

1227
00:55:37,440 --> 00:55:38,079
first main event.

1228
00:55:38,519 --> 00:55:40,199
Speaker 2: So did you did you pay the full forty?

1229
00:55:40,360 --> 00:55:42,440
Speaker 1: No, because we settled, like he said we were gonna

1230
00:55:42,440 --> 00:55:44,079
be able to settle for less, and so I think

1231
00:55:44,159 --> 00:55:47,519
he said, okay, we'll settle for twenty and I paid

1232
00:55:47,599 --> 00:55:50,719
him like twelve that summer and I paid him the

1233
00:55:50,760 --> 00:55:52,320
other eight over the next year or something like that.

1234
00:55:52,599 --> 00:55:56,760
Speaker 2: Wow, that's still insane. That's a massive number. Yeah, in

1235
00:55:57,159 --> 00:56:01,239
your years in poker, is there any other crazy story

1236
00:56:01,280 --> 00:56:03,199
that stands out that you're thinking back on, like how

1237
00:56:03,320 --> 00:56:04,079
did it even happen?

1238
00:56:04,199 --> 00:56:05,960
Speaker 1: I mean, that has to be one of the wildest ones.

1239
00:56:05,960 --> 00:56:08,079
I mean I don't gamble that way anymore, right, Like

1240
00:56:08,159 --> 00:56:11,320
I don't. I don't play table games anymore. I rarely

1241
00:56:11,400 --> 00:56:16,199
sports bet. I'm kind of boring now, so I don't

1242
00:56:16,280 --> 00:56:19,519
have those leaks, and I certainly don't bet forty K

1243
00:56:19,639 --> 00:56:21,639
with seventeen K to my name. That was just, you know,

1244
00:56:22,039 --> 00:56:24,679
dumb twenty two year old stuff. The beer pong one

1245
00:56:24,719 --> 00:56:27,519
in the Amsterdam missing the flight are definitely like two

1246
00:56:27,559 --> 00:56:30,239
of the better ones that I can think of off

1247
00:56:30,239 --> 00:56:32,679
the top of my head that kind of involved my

1248
00:56:32,719 --> 00:56:33,559
poker career. Yeah.

1249
00:56:33,920 --> 00:56:35,400
Speaker 2: Well, it's been really good having you on the show.

1250
00:56:35,400 --> 00:56:37,800
I really appreciate your time, and I look forward to

1251
00:56:37,840 --> 00:56:38,880
the book. Are you still working on?

1252
00:56:39,800 --> 00:56:42,159
Speaker 1: I didn't really ever get too far in Oka. I

1253
00:56:42,199 --> 00:56:44,719
wrote some notes and my mom would love nothing more

1254
00:56:44,760 --> 00:56:46,719
than to see me write this book, and maybe I

1255
00:56:46,840 --> 00:56:49,199
do at some point. But I guess I just feel

1256
00:56:49,199 --> 00:56:50,280
like I have too much other stuff on the go

1257
00:56:50,440 --> 00:56:52,039
right now. But I would like I would like to

1258
00:56:52,079 --> 00:56:53,199
do that at some point. I think it would be

1259
00:56:53,199 --> 00:56:54,079
pretty interesting.

1260
00:56:53,880 --> 00:56:56,199
Speaker 2: All right, So no pre orders just yet. Yeah, but

1261
00:56:56,400 --> 00:56:58,440
we'll keep a tab on how Alex is doing with

1262
00:56:58,480 --> 00:57:00,519
his book. Yeah, Alex, thanks so much for on the show.

1263
00:57:00,840 --> 00:57:02,960
Appreciate it. You guys at home, please liked the video.

1264
00:57:03,000 --> 00:57:04,840
Subscribe to the channel and leave a comment on who

1265
00:57:04,880 --> 00:57:07,320
you want to see next, or perhaps additional questions for Alex,

1266
00:57:07,360 --> 00:57:08,920
and I'll send him over to him and maybe we'll

1267
00:57:09,079 --> 00:57:11,320
have him answer those. Thanks for watching, and we'll see

1268
00:57:11,360 --> 00:57:11,880
you on the next one.