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Noperd is necessary if 46 00:02:04.159 --> 00:02:06.239 we were primitted by loss he terms and conditions eighteen plus. 47 00:02:06.319 --> 00:02:18.800 Maybe you are now listening to True Murder, The most 48 00:02:18.800 --> 00:02:22.199 shocking killers in true crime history and the authors that 49 00:02:22.240 --> 00:02:28.479 have written about them Gasey, Bundy, Dahmer, The Night Stalker DTK. 50 00:02:29.360 --> 00:02:33.199 Every week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking 51 00:02:33.319 --> 00:02:37.360 and infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with 52 00:02:37.520 --> 00:02:52.000 your host journalist and author Dan Zupanski. Good Day. 53 00:02:52.919 --> 00:02:56.560 In September nineteen seventy two boys met in the playground 54 00:02:56.560 --> 00:02:59.599 on their first day at secondary school in North London. 55 00:03:00.560 --> 00:03:03.080 They formed what would be described at the Old Bailey 56 00:03:03.159 --> 00:03:07.400 thirty years later as a unique and wicked bond. Between 57 00:03:07.479 --> 00:03:11.080 nineteen eighty two and nineteen eighty six, striking near lonely 58 00:03:11.159 --> 00:03:15.159 railway stations in London and the Home Counties, their partnership 59 00:03:15.199 --> 00:03:19.159 took them from rape to murder. Three police forces pooled 60 00:03:19.159 --> 00:03:21.439 their resources to catch them in the biggest criminal man 61 00:03:21.560 --> 00:03:26.319 hunt since the Yorkshire Ripper Inquiry. A Dangerous Place is 62 00:03:26.360 --> 00:03:28.960 the first full length account of the crimes of John 63 00:03:29.039 --> 00:03:32.520 Duffy and David Mockay, told by the son of one 64 00:03:32.560 --> 00:03:36.520 of the police officers who led the inquiry. Exhaustively researched 65 00:03:36.560 --> 00:03:40.319 and with unprecedented access. This is the story of two 66 00:03:40.319 --> 00:03:43.199 of the most notorious serial killers of the twentieth century 67 00:03:43.639 --> 00:03:46.960 and the times they operated in. It is the story 68 00:03:46.960 --> 00:03:49.759 of the women who died at their hands. It is 69 00:03:49.840 --> 00:03:52.319 the story of the women who survived them and who 70 00:03:52.319 --> 00:03:55.599 had the courage to insure justice was done. And it 71 00:03:55.639 --> 00:03:58.199 is the story of a father told by a son. 72 00:03:59.039 --> 00:04:01.919 The book they were featuring today is A Dangerous Place, 73 00:04:02.039 --> 00:04:05.159 The Story of the Railway Murders, with my special guest, 74 00:04:05.240 --> 00:04:09.680 journalist and author, Simon Farker. Welcome to the program, and 75 00:04:09.719 --> 00:04:12.560 thank you very much for agreeing to this interview. Simon 76 00:04:12.879 --> 00:04:15.039 Farker at all. 77 00:04:15.039 --> 00:04:16.040 Thank you, it's a pleasure. 78 00:04:17.199 --> 00:04:20.839 Thank you very much, all the way from London. Let's 79 00:04:21.439 --> 00:04:25.240 talk about how you came to be involved. We alluded 80 00:04:25.319 --> 00:04:27.879 to it that this is the story of your father, 81 00:04:28.000 --> 00:04:31.360 was one of the officers involved in this incredible case. 82 00:04:32.000 --> 00:04:35.680 Tell us how you came to be involved and wanted 83 00:04:35.720 --> 00:04:38.639 to be involved in writing this story A Dangerous Place. 84 00:04:40.399 --> 00:04:47.000 Well, my father died in twenty thirteen, and naturally when 85 00:04:47.160 --> 00:04:50.839 you lose a parent, you want to do something in 86 00:04:50.959 --> 00:04:53.759 some sort of tribute, some sort of gesture. Strange enough, 87 00:04:53.759 --> 00:04:56.399 it never actually occurred to me to do a book 88 00:04:56.399 --> 00:04:58.879 about about this case or anything. What happened was that 89 00:05:00.000 --> 00:05:04.079 a time later, I was writing a piece for a newspaper. 90 00:05:05.079 --> 00:05:07.519 There was a television show in Britain in the seventies 91 00:05:07.519 --> 00:05:10.680 and eighties called Police five, and it was a weekly 92 00:05:10.720 --> 00:05:14.279 show where they appealed for help on unsolved crimes. And 93 00:05:14.839 --> 00:05:17.000 while this case was going on, my dad appeared on 94 00:05:17.000 --> 00:05:20.199 that program and when the host of it was a 95 00:05:20.199 --> 00:05:22.480 guy called Shaw Taylor, who was very well known in Britain. 96 00:05:23.240 --> 00:05:25.439 He died not long after my dad and I was 97 00:05:25.439 --> 00:05:29.000 writing a piece about in for the newspapers, and as 98 00:05:29.000 --> 00:05:31.399 a result of that, I happened to be in discussion 99 00:05:31.480 --> 00:05:34.120 with a publisher and were telling him about my dad's 100 00:05:34.120 --> 00:05:36.279 connection with that program, that he'd gone on there to 101 00:05:36.360 --> 00:05:39.240 appeal for information about the railway murders and so on, 102 00:05:39.839 --> 00:05:41.639 and I was talking about my dad's part in what 103 00:05:41.800 --> 00:05:45.160 was an enormously important case, and he just said, this 104 00:05:45.279 --> 00:05:48.519 is fascinating. Why don't you do a book about it. 105 00:05:48.519 --> 00:05:50.480 It's kind of obvious, really, but it had just never 106 00:05:50.519 --> 00:05:53.920 occurred to me, and initially I was a bit unsure 107 00:05:53.959 --> 00:05:59.279 because it wasn't a genre I'd ever explored before. But 108 00:05:59.360 --> 00:06:00.879 then I thought of about it a bit more, and 109 00:06:00.920 --> 00:06:04.000 I thought, well, it's strange that the book hasn't been 110 00:06:04.000 --> 00:06:05.920 done on this case yet, so if I don't do it, 111 00:06:06.000 --> 00:06:08.759 someone else probably will. A lot of documentary has been 112 00:06:08.800 --> 00:06:12.199 done on it, but never a book. And I also thought, 113 00:06:12.439 --> 00:06:15.439 not only would it be an interesting opportunity to pay 114 00:06:15.560 --> 00:06:18.959 tribute to my dad, it would be an interesting way 115 00:06:18.959 --> 00:06:22.079 of understanding who he was as a working man. It 116 00:06:22.120 --> 00:06:26.680 would mean talking to his colleagues, going through the visiting 117 00:06:26.680 --> 00:06:28.600 the places he had to go to putting the story 118 00:06:28.639 --> 00:06:31.360 together from his point of view. So it just became 119 00:06:32.120 --> 00:06:35.439 kind of irresistible after that, actually, And then the first 120 00:06:35.600 --> 00:06:38.920 sort of tentative steps I took were to try and 121 00:06:39.079 --> 00:06:42.959 contact his colleagues in the case. And immediately they came 122 00:06:43.000 --> 00:06:45.920 back with so many stories, and I realized that a 123 00:06:45.920 --> 00:06:48.079 lot of the coverage of the case in the past 124 00:06:48.160 --> 00:06:51.360 had been quite superficial, or have been quite a lot 125 00:06:51.360 --> 00:06:55.399 of inaccuracy, isn't it. So after that, what actually happened, 126 00:06:55.399 --> 00:06:57.800 and I suppose what often happens with the stories like 127 00:06:57.800 --> 00:06:59.560 this verygardment is they begin to take you over a 128 00:06:59.600 --> 00:07:04.000 little bit they become you know, they haunt you for 129 00:07:04.040 --> 00:07:06.800 the day and night. So it became quite a compulsive 130 00:07:07.680 --> 00:07:10.319 experience writing it. So yeah, that's how it came about. 131 00:07:12.480 --> 00:07:16.519 Yah, fascinating. Let's talk about the principles in this because 132 00:07:16.519 --> 00:07:18.519 we have so much to cover in this incredible story. 133 00:07:18.519 --> 00:07:22.160 There are so many twist terms in this it's amazing. 134 00:07:22.800 --> 00:07:25.839 Let's talk about John Francis Duffy, which was born in 135 00:07:25.920 --> 00:07:29.120 nineteen fifty eight. You say he's the eldest of three children. 136 00:07:29.959 --> 00:07:34.800 Tell us about his upbringing in this family, which. 137 00:07:34.680 --> 00:07:39.199 John Duffee was. That's right. John Duffy was the son 138 00:07:39.439 --> 00:07:44.160 of an Irish couple. He was born in Ireland and 139 00:07:44.439 --> 00:07:47.240 the family moved over here in his childhood. They were 140 00:07:47.279 --> 00:07:51.680 a very decent, hard working Irish family. His father was 141 00:07:51.720 --> 00:07:57.120 a builder. They quite religious, not massively so, but they 142 00:07:57.319 --> 00:08:02.360 was the dutiful Catholics. And as a young child, we 143 00:08:02.439 --> 00:08:05.279 know very little about him that suggested there was anything 144 00:08:05.600 --> 00:08:08.839 sort of wrong there. As he began to grow up, 145 00:08:09.120 --> 00:08:11.800 there were certain things about him right. He was very 146 00:08:12.040 --> 00:08:14.519 very short. He was long, well below the average high. 147 00:08:14.560 --> 00:08:16.079 Even as an adult he never got to all of 148 00:08:16.160 --> 00:08:19.839 him five foot four, which you drew attention to him 149 00:08:19.879 --> 00:08:21.720 and he probably got teased a bit because of that. 150 00:08:22.240 --> 00:08:25.720 He had a very very bright ginger hair as well, 151 00:08:26.399 --> 00:08:28.839 which got in a lot of attention at school and 152 00:08:28.839 --> 00:08:32.720 a lot of bullying and things like that. But he came, 153 00:08:33.519 --> 00:08:35.039 as I say, he came over with his parents to 154 00:08:35.080 --> 00:08:38.960 live in North London, and he wasn't gifted academically, and 155 00:08:39.039 --> 00:08:41.759 he wasn't really He was a child that wasn't really 156 00:08:41.799 --> 00:08:45.159 interested in anything. Nothing could engage him. He wasn't interested 157 00:08:45.200 --> 00:08:49.200 in anything at school, sport or academical or anything like that. 158 00:08:49.960 --> 00:08:53.120 But when he was eleven he went to Haverstock School 159 00:08:53.159 --> 00:08:56.559 in North London, which is today quite a respected school, 160 00:08:56.559 --> 00:08:58.360 but at that time was a school with a lot 161 00:08:58.360 --> 00:09:03.000 of problems, had a very bad record for discipline, bullying 162 00:09:03.000 --> 00:09:06.440 and that sort of thing. And he arrived at Avistock 163 00:09:06.559 --> 00:09:10.480 and was bullied very very mercilessly. And one of the 164 00:09:10.519 --> 00:09:12.679 things that he used to do was he would put 165 00:09:12.720 --> 00:09:16.919 on a heavy overcoat with a hood and he'd wear 166 00:09:16.919 --> 00:09:19.159 it the whole time, even on hot summer days, as 167 00:09:19.200 --> 00:09:21.440 a way of sort of hiding from the world, you know. 168 00:09:22.879 --> 00:09:26.159 But on his first day at that school, in the playground, 169 00:09:26.240 --> 00:09:30.039 on the first day, he met another boy, David Mulcahey, 170 00:09:30.759 --> 00:09:34.080 and from then on his fate was sealed together that 171 00:09:34.200 --> 00:09:41.320 partnership began. So that was it. He Duffy was raised 172 00:09:41.320 --> 00:09:45.360 as a Catholic, and what obviously becomes, without wanting to 173 00:09:45.399 --> 00:09:47.639 jump ahead too much, what does become important later on 174 00:09:47.679 --> 00:09:52.840 in the story is that Duffy's decent upbringing and religious 175 00:09:52.879 --> 00:09:56.840 upbringing and so on never quite vanished despite the dreadful 176 00:09:56.879 --> 00:10:00.159 crimes that he was led into. Much much late to 177 00:10:00.279 --> 00:10:03.559 something that came back as we were seeing. 178 00:10:05.679 --> 00:10:13.960 You talk about Duffy meeting David John Marquay, and you 179 00:10:14.039 --> 00:10:16.320 talk about him being the son of a garage mechanic 180 00:10:16.600 --> 00:10:20.039 turned pub landlord, and he was born that's just a 181 00:10:20.120 --> 00:10:25.000 year after Duffy in nineteen fifty nine. Tell us what 182 00:10:25.480 --> 00:10:30.960 their early relationship was characterized by. What did David mackay 183 00:10:31.320 --> 00:10:38.279 become in essence as a friend of Duffy. 184 00:10:38.759 --> 00:10:42.000 Well, I think what first of all, what happened was 185 00:10:42.039 --> 00:10:46.919 that Malkay he was also bullied at school and isolated. 186 00:10:46.960 --> 00:10:49.600 So therefore these two boys were sort of thrown together. 187 00:10:50.320 --> 00:10:52.039 They had something in common in the fact that they 188 00:10:52.039 --> 00:10:56.480 were both from Irish families, which was a bit of 189 00:10:56.480 --> 00:11:02.639 a coincidence. But David grew very quickly, grew into a 190 00:11:02.720 --> 00:11:06.039 much bigger lad than Duffy and a bit more confident 191 00:11:06.639 --> 00:11:09.879 and arrogance, and I think after a while he could 192 00:11:09.919 --> 00:11:13.200 have enjoyed the role of being Duffy's kind of protector 193 00:11:14.480 --> 00:11:19.759 and he sort of leader. Very quickly they both completely 194 00:11:21.039 --> 00:11:23.759 disengaged from their school life, so they began to just 195 00:11:23.799 --> 00:11:26.840 not go to school and they spent a lot of 196 00:11:26.879 --> 00:11:31.200 time just wandering around North London. Very near to their 197 00:11:31.240 --> 00:11:34.519 school was Hampstead Heath, which is a massive grade area 198 00:11:34.600 --> 00:11:37.960 of heathland in London, which is full of lonely places 199 00:11:38.039 --> 00:11:42.360 which they enjoyed skulking around in. And they started experimenting 200 00:11:42.440 --> 00:11:45.720 with petty crime. I mean, if children aren't going to school, 201 00:11:45.799 --> 00:11:47.919 they need to do something to occupy those days when 202 00:11:47.960 --> 00:11:49.879 they can't, you know, hang around at home or anything. 203 00:11:50.480 --> 00:11:52.600 So they started a little bit of petty crime. They 204 00:11:52.639 --> 00:11:57.200 would do little bits of vandalism, they'd start fires, they 205 00:11:57.240 --> 00:11:59.639 would look at a damage, a little bits of theft, 206 00:11:59.639 --> 00:12:03.559 and that's the thing. But what was really crucial at 207 00:12:03.559 --> 00:12:05.799 this time as well is that in Britain at this 208 00:12:05.919 --> 00:12:09.759 time there was a real fascination amongst a lot of 209 00:12:09.799 --> 00:12:12.759 youngsters with martial arts. This was the age of the 210 00:12:12.840 --> 00:12:15.639 Kung Fu Crace and Bruce Lee and so on and 211 00:12:15.639 --> 00:12:21.440 so forth. And these two boys got completely fascinated by this, 212 00:12:21.879 --> 00:12:26.639 probably as a way of trying to feel more confident 213 00:12:26.639 --> 00:12:28.559 with the world around them and take some revenge on 214 00:12:28.600 --> 00:12:31.759 the fact that they'd been victims of bullying and so on. 215 00:12:32.559 --> 00:12:37.200 And they started to train, and they started to really 216 00:12:37.200 --> 00:12:40.559 immerse themselves in a kind of martial arts philosophy, but 217 00:12:40.600 --> 00:12:45.080 a very skewed version of it, and they would endlessly 218 00:12:45.159 --> 00:12:48.559 practice moves. They would pretend that they were soldiers or 219 00:12:48.600 --> 00:12:51.919 whatever and sort of you know, have these imaginary games. 220 00:12:52.480 --> 00:12:56.200 But it began to take on a more sinister ridge. 221 00:12:56.360 --> 00:13:00.840 They became completely detached from the world around them and 222 00:13:00.840 --> 00:13:04.519 operated in their own little bubble. They hardly interacted with 223 00:13:04.559 --> 00:13:10.080 anybody else, and they were heading down a path. Mccahe 224 00:13:10.200 --> 00:13:12.879 wanted to see himself as what he called an immortal warrior. 225 00:13:13.120 --> 00:13:16.559 You know, it was immature, It was tom foolery, but 226 00:13:16.679 --> 00:13:18.840 at a late age. The other thing that they would 227 00:13:18.840 --> 00:13:22.879 start doing as they became adolescent, that they became sexually aware, 228 00:13:23.000 --> 00:13:26.679 is that they would pursue girls in the playground or whatever, 229 00:13:26.759 --> 00:13:28.559 and then when they grabbed them, they would touch them 230 00:13:28.559 --> 00:13:31.320 inappropriately and that sort of thing, all things that these 231 00:13:31.399 --> 00:13:34.480 days you would hope a school would notice and would, 232 00:13:35.000 --> 00:13:37.519 you know, would would look into. But in those days, 233 00:13:38.240 --> 00:13:40.919 you know, it's things were far less police than they were. 234 00:13:41.600 --> 00:13:45.879 So by the time they're in their mid teens, you 235 00:13:45.960 --> 00:13:49.720 have already a history of petty crime, a fascination with 236 00:13:49.799 --> 00:13:57.320 martial arts and violence, and an aggressive sexual attitude. They 237 00:13:57.360 --> 00:14:01.879 had no interaction with with girls. They both by the 238 00:14:01.879 --> 00:14:04.200 time they left school, they had no qualifications at all 239 00:14:04.480 --> 00:14:10.320 and really had just they had become They had become 240 00:14:10.360 --> 00:14:16.360 complete outsiders. But their relationship was something that was entirely 241 00:14:17.159 --> 00:14:20.879 there's an expression fully had the madness of two people, 242 00:14:21.919 --> 00:14:24.480 and that's what this really sort of became. They knew 243 00:14:24.480 --> 00:14:26.679 each other inside out. They had their own little world. 244 00:14:26.759 --> 00:14:29.240 It was no one else was really privy to at all, 245 00:14:29.960 --> 00:14:35.120 and unfortunately they were now on a path towards towards 246 00:14:35.120 --> 00:14:38.480 becoming becoming killers. 247 00:14:39.320 --> 00:14:42.799 You talked about their foray and two petty crime and 248 00:14:43.159 --> 00:14:47.799 the escalation of that and their interest in martial arts 249 00:14:47.840 --> 00:14:54.000 and then violence in general, and then they would begin 250 00:14:54.159 --> 00:14:58.240 to stark women. You also talk about on Spring break 251 00:14:58.360 --> 00:15:01.879 nineteen seventy seven, more A met sand Racarr, who was 252 00:15:01.919 --> 00:15:04.279 sixteen years old. In the following June, the couple were 253 00:15:04.320 --> 00:15:10.200 married and duffe found and you say Duffy had found 254 00:15:10.279 --> 00:15:13.519 work as a carpenter for British Reel, which again this 255 00:15:13.559 --> 00:15:15.039 will be very important. 256 00:15:16.320 --> 00:15:17.759 That's what. 257 00:15:20.679 --> 00:15:21.320 Go ahead. 258 00:15:22.000 --> 00:15:24.320 They both by the time they left school, they both, 259 00:15:24.480 --> 00:15:26.879 as said, had no qualifications, and they also had no 260 00:15:27.000 --> 00:15:29.480 experience of the opposite sex. It's all apart from an 261 00:15:29.480 --> 00:15:35.159 aggressive way. Malkai began working behind the bar at his 262 00:15:35.279 --> 00:15:40.440 parents pub and tried various things. He showed some aptitude 263 00:15:41.639 --> 00:15:44.759 as a decorator and as a plaster, but he never 264 00:15:44.799 --> 00:15:46.720 really was able to stick at anything. This is actually 265 00:15:46.799 --> 00:15:50.240 quite a common trait I think with weird serial killers 266 00:15:50.279 --> 00:15:53.360 and things, is an inability to settle into any kind 267 00:15:53.399 --> 00:15:58.720 of occupation or commit to anything like that. Duffy showed 268 00:15:58.759 --> 00:16:05.039 some flair as a carpenter and he got an apprenticeship, 269 00:16:05.840 --> 00:16:08.559 but he wasn't kept on after he completed it because 270 00:16:08.600 --> 00:16:12.360 he was so regularly absent. However, he then did manage 271 00:16:12.399 --> 00:16:14.399 to find work working with working for British Rail as 272 00:16:14.399 --> 00:16:18.279 a carpenter, and this allowed him free travel on all 273 00:16:18.320 --> 00:16:21.000 the rail networks in the Home counties and in London, 274 00:16:21.679 --> 00:16:25.039 so he built up a very very good knowledge of 275 00:16:25.080 --> 00:16:29.960 the railway very quickly, and I would imagine that David 276 00:16:30.000 --> 00:16:32.200 would have probably traveled with him quite a lot in 277 00:16:32.279 --> 00:16:34.399 the evenings when they were probably hanging around, or in 278 00:16:34.440 --> 00:16:37.399 the daytimes. I would imagine that they probably both traveled 279 00:16:37.399 --> 00:16:41.320 on Duffy's free passes, wandering around and gradually noticing that 280 00:16:41.360 --> 00:16:43.360 the railways are a very good place to use if 281 00:16:43.360 --> 00:16:46.600 you want to attack people, because there's so many lonely spots, 282 00:16:46.639 --> 00:16:49.200 you know, especially in those days before there were CCTV 283 00:16:50.159 --> 00:16:52.639 and that sort of thing, it's an absolutely perfect opportunity 284 00:16:52.720 --> 00:16:54.480 for people to operate like that. 285 00:16:56.759 --> 00:16:59.919 You talk about Duffy also meeting a woman, Margaret Byrne, 286 00:17:00.159 --> 00:17:03.639 and they married in secret due to their parents' disapproval. 287 00:17:04.640 --> 00:17:05.759 And do you talk about right? 288 00:17:05.799 --> 00:17:06.000 Yeah? 289 00:17:06.000 --> 00:17:09.839 Sorry, I yes, sorry, I forgot to mention about the marriages. Yeah, 290 00:17:09.839 --> 00:17:13.599 they they both married the first women that they formed 291 00:17:13.599 --> 00:17:18.319 any kind of relationship with. Malkay he married a lady 292 00:17:18.319 --> 00:17:21.400 he'd met at a dance in nineteen seventy seven, and 293 00:17:21.599 --> 00:17:27.279 Duffy a year later met a nursery teacher called Margaret, 294 00:17:28.640 --> 00:17:32.039 and both those marriages did appear to settle the two 295 00:17:32.079 --> 00:17:35.279 men for a short time. So we're talking by nineteen 296 00:17:35.279 --> 00:17:38.440 seventy eight, they're both they're both about twenty, and they're 297 00:17:38.440 --> 00:17:41.319 both married, and for a short time they both appeared 298 00:17:41.359 --> 00:17:46.160 to settle, have jobs and so on. McCaughey and his 299 00:17:46.279 --> 00:17:51.200 wife had children, Duffy and his wife couldn't have children, 300 00:17:52.000 --> 00:17:57.319 and by the early nineteen eighties both marriages appeared to 301 00:17:57.359 --> 00:18:00.680 have been there's possibly a bit of crisis both of them. 302 00:18:00.920 --> 00:18:06.640 I think David was possibly possibly bored, restless and so on. Duffy, 303 00:18:06.680 --> 00:18:10.000 on the other hand, it appeared that he wasn't going 304 00:18:10.039 --> 00:18:12.319 to be able to have children, and this became a 305 00:18:12.359 --> 00:18:15.400 serious challenge to his sense of masculinity. 306 00:18:18.480 --> 00:18:22.920 Around this time, you talk of plan that these two hatch. 307 00:18:23.119 --> 00:18:25.960 What is that plan? What are they What did they 308 00:18:27.160 --> 00:18:27.720 try to do. 309 00:18:29.720 --> 00:18:32.599 Well? It dates back to something which had happened earlier. 310 00:18:32.640 --> 00:18:35.680 The summer they left school, the summer of nineteen seventy five. 311 00:18:36.480 --> 00:18:40.880 The first job that Malkahi got was doing some decorating 312 00:18:41.680 --> 00:18:44.799 for a woman in a house in North London. Something 313 00:18:44.920 --> 00:18:48.559 happened and he had an altercation with this woman. I 314 00:18:48.599 --> 00:18:51.440 think she didn't pay because I think he hadn't done 315 00:18:51.480 --> 00:18:54.799 the work adequately and he just went crazy about this, 316 00:18:55.200 --> 00:18:58.319 and he said to Duffy she needed teaching a lesson. 317 00:18:59.119 --> 00:19:01.119 So they broke into the house while she was out. 318 00:19:01.119 --> 00:19:03.839 They broke in for a skylights and they waited there 319 00:19:03.920 --> 00:19:06.680 with the plan to rape her when she returned, but 320 00:19:06.799 --> 00:19:09.759 she just didn't come back, and they waited and waited, 321 00:19:09.759 --> 00:19:12.759 and then decided they couldn't wait any longer and they left. 322 00:19:12.799 --> 00:19:15.480 But an idea, I mean, we will never know what 323 00:19:15.519 --> 00:19:17.480 would have happened if that woman had come back at 324 00:19:17.480 --> 00:19:22.119 this point. But the following year it happened again. There 325 00:19:22.160 --> 00:19:28.279 was a lady in Kensington who Mokahi decided was stuck 326 00:19:28.359 --> 00:19:31.079 up to use his term, so they broke in again 327 00:19:32.000 --> 00:19:35.480 with a plan to rape this woman and she did return, 328 00:19:35.519 --> 00:19:38.119 but she returned with a boyfriend and the two of 329 00:19:38.119 --> 00:19:41.440 them ran very quickly out of the house to avoid 330 00:19:41.480 --> 00:19:46.519 getting caught. And they found the whole experience exhilarating. They 331 00:19:46.680 --> 00:19:49.400 found that the lying in wait and the preparation was 332 00:19:50.279 --> 00:19:53.720 a level of excitement they'd never experienced before. So if 333 00:19:53.799 --> 00:19:56.559 we moved forward six years and we don't know of 334 00:19:56.599 --> 00:19:58.839 anything that happened, in those six years after that, apart 335 00:19:58.839 --> 00:20:01.759 from some petty crime, some burglary and so on. But 336 00:20:01.839 --> 00:20:06.440 in nineteen eighty two, Duffy's marriage was in real crisis 337 00:20:06.519 --> 00:20:09.039 and his wife was going away for the weekend on 338 00:20:09.079 --> 00:20:12.319 a course, and he and David hatched a plan to 339 00:20:12.559 --> 00:20:16.519 kidnap a woman and torture her over the weekend. They 340 00:20:16.519 --> 00:20:19.799 were going to abduct her, drive around London blindfolded, take 341 00:20:19.839 --> 00:20:22.039 her back to Duffy's flat. He'd even got a mattress 342 00:20:22.079 --> 00:20:24.319 prepared in the living room to keep her tied up on, 343 00:20:24.839 --> 00:20:26.680 and they would do various things. They were planning to 344 00:20:26.720 --> 00:20:29.160 walk her across a roof blindfolded to the edge, and 345 00:20:29.240 --> 00:20:32.240 all that kind of stuff. And again it didn't happen. 346 00:20:33.440 --> 00:20:36.079 They just when it came to the crunch, they just 347 00:20:36.079 --> 00:20:39.200 felt they didn't quite have the They didn't dare do it. 348 00:20:40.000 --> 00:20:43.079 But again the seed of an idea had formed and 349 00:20:44.599 --> 00:20:46.880 they were you know, it was another step towards committing 350 00:20:46.920 --> 00:20:49.400 an actual crime of this nature. So on the next 351 00:20:49.440 --> 00:20:54.880 occasion that Duffy's wife went away, they decided to try again, 352 00:20:55.000 --> 00:20:58.440 and this time they broke into the back garden of 353 00:20:58.480 --> 00:21:02.480 a house in Abbey Road in North London Abbey Road, 354 00:21:02.519 --> 00:21:06.720 famous for the Beatles album, and a lady who lived 355 00:21:06.720 --> 00:21:08.519 in a flat on Abbey Road was just going to bed. 356 00:21:08.680 --> 00:21:10.079 She turned the light out in the living room and 357 00:21:10.119 --> 00:21:13.079 she saw a man standing on the balcony who was Duffy. 358 00:21:14.000 --> 00:21:16.480 She rushed to open the door and scream across the 359 00:21:16.480 --> 00:21:20.240 garden and she heard a second man saying quick, let's go. 360 00:21:20.680 --> 00:21:25.160 And this was them, and this was the last time 361 00:21:25.200 --> 00:21:27.039 they were thwarted. They were angry because they were so 362 00:21:27.160 --> 00:21:29.440 close this time and they'd been thwarted. So then they 363 00:21:29.480 --> 00:21:32.839 decided that the third time they weren't going to miss 364 00:21:32.880 --> 00:21:38.200 the opportunity. So in June nineteen eighty two, one Saturday night, 365 00:21:38.400 --> 00:21:43.319 they went out in the Mulcahy's car, drove around for hours, 366 00:21:43.640 --> 00:21:47.039 and then finally saw a young girl walking along Hampstead 367 00:21:47.079 --> 00:21:53.559 Heath very late, and they accosted her and both raped her, 368 00:21:53.960 --> 00:21:57.720 and then drove back the Duffy's flat in a high 369 00:21:57.799 --> 00:22:01.240 stage of excitement, going over what they've just done. This 370 00:22:01.359 --> 00:22:02.759 is one of the things that they love. They love 371 00:22:02.839 --> 00:22:06.480 talking about their crimes afterwards and comparing notes and deciding 372 00:22:06.960 --> 00:22:08.920 who will we get next, what sort of victim will 373 00:22:08.960 --> 00:22:13.400 we choose. It was an unbelievably the complete disregard for 374 00:22:14.519 --> 00:22:17.920 for you know, for human feelings, and it was quite remarkable. 375 00:22:17.960 --> 00:22:20.880 But from then on it became a compulsion, and it 376 00:22:21.000 --> 00:22:24.960 just became more and more frequent over the next four years. 377 00:22:25.880 --> 00:22:32.359 With these attacks. There are descriptions of these perpetrators and 378 00:22:32.480 --> 00:22:36.200 as well coverage in the newspapers. What did that do 379 00:22:36.319 --> 00:22:40.640 for their confidence or were they hesitant? What did that 380 00:22:40.680 --> 00:22:43.119 do to their emo? 381 00:22:43.640 --> 00:22:47.440 Interestingly enough, interesting enough, they actually they actually rather fed 382 00:22:47.480 --> 00:22:49.680 off that publicity. They saw it as a bit of 383 00:22:49.680 --> 00:22:52.720 a game. I mean they Suffy said later, we saw 384 00:22:52.720 --> 00:22:54.480 it as a game with the police. We never thought 385 00:22:54.480 --> 00:22:57.680 we'd get caught. They kind of enjoyed that sort of 386 00:22:57.759 --> 00:23:01.720 cat and mouse thing. One of the things that these 387 00:23:01.720 --> 00:23:04.640 two men took extreme. They went to extreme lengths to 388 00:23:04.680 --> 00:23:08.640 try and avoid being caught. They would wear masks or 389 00:23:08.680 --> 00:23:13.079 balaclavas or hoods. They would talk in accents which were 390 00:23:13.079 --> 00:23:15.319 different to where they were actually from to try and 391 00:23:15.480 --> 00:23:21.960 confuse the witnesses. They would drive around normally in a car, 392 00:23:22.039 --> 00:23:23.759 but then they would park it someway from where the 393 00:23:23.759 --> 00:23:29.519 attacks would take place. Malkahi would put tape inside his 394 00:23:29.720 --> 00:23:32.519 jacket and then he would use that to put over 395 00:23:32.559 --> 00:23:34.720 Victor's eyes and mouth and that sort of thing. It 396 00:23:34.799 --> 00:23:38.680 was planned with a militaristic precision, and they would carry 397 00:23:38.720 --> 00:23:42.680 either knives or replica firearms with them or whatever. But 398 00:23:43.200 --> 00:23:49.960 although initially the publicity sort of excited them and they 399 00:23:50.079 --> 00:23:52.640 enjoyed out witting the police and so on, they did 400 00:23:52.759 --> 00:23:56.039 come a point when the attacks became so prolific that 401 00:23:56.079 --> 00:23:58.960