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Speaker 1: Welcome to another episode of the Chicks on the Right

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podcast where we talk to our friend and sponsor of

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the show, Zach Abraham from Bulwart Capital Management. Our team

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found the most interesting Reddit thread, which is where all

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interesting stuff is right on ready about money hoarding, where

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people who have plenty of money actually do like super

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super frugal things like take extra McDonald's ketchup packets home

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with them, who wear the same pair of shoes that

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they've had for ten years, et cetera. And this really

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stuck home for me, particularly because my parents are immigrants

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from Poland and they taught me frugality from a very

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early age. And my mom fits this description to a t,

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like she's the person who saves aluminum foil. She does

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use yet right if it didn't get any food on

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it from baking, then it's a clean piece of oil

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that she'll use the next time around. And it's not

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because they don't they can't afford more foil. They do fine,

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But it is an interesting thing. I think about immigrants

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who have had almost nothing, and there's like this sort

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of innate kind of maybe fear that's they don't even

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recognize that they might have nothing again have you run

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into that with clients.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, And one of the one of the things

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I tell them, see, in our business, financially, you're incentivized.

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And I'm not saying people do, I'm sure they do,

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but financially you're incentivized to keep as much money of

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the person's in the account.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 2: So, the way we manage an account is we charge

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a percentage fee on and so technically speaking, if we're

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just looking out for ourselves, we're going to try to

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tell them not to pull any money out of the.

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Speaker 3: Account, right right.

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Speaker 2: Well, And I have this conversation with them when I

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run into it, and I'm like, hey, guys, when the

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guy who gets paid more based on the balance of

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your account is advising you to spend more money like.

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Speaker 4: You probably need to do it, I can't give.

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Speaker 2: You a bigger green light than that, right, yeah, and

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so and and usually that works. But but the other

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part of it too, you see it. You know, unfortunately

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there's less of those folks alive these days, but you

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see similar things with people that went through the Great Depression.

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Speaker 4: I was just yeah, I was gonna say that people

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and like Boomer, like my parents are Boom, our parents

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are boomer parents, and they had parents who went through

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the depression, right, so they're not so far removed from that,

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so they're probably freaked out by that a little bit.

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More like I have an aunt who steals the sweet

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and lose, you know what I mean, And I'm like,

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you can't.

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Speaker 5: Don't put into her purse, you know, and I can't find.

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Speaker 4: Out it's so weird, Like that's a common thing in

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a lot of people as so she's not.

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Speaker 1: The only one.

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Speaker 4: It's not just my family, okay.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, and this and and and so that's you know,

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that one is a little bit different. That's you you know,

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that's that's unique. I feel like that's a very very

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specific type scenario. But I think it literally, I don't

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think it's that far removed from people that are completely

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financially irresponsible. And and let me and let me explain

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what I mean, you get in trouble now.

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Speaker 5: Being overly frugal.

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Speaker 2: Is far less dangerous than being like overly reckless, right yeah,

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but still quality of life matters. And you know, I

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cannot tell you people where I like, I have had

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these people as clients and still do some of them.

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I think we've gotten through to the majority of them,

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but to where regardless of how many millions of dollars

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they have set aside, they have a poverty mindset, right,

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and it robs them of joy. And I always it's

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interesting doing this job because you get to see really

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all the sides of money. And I think any time

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we place two much importance on money, right, either by

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keeping it so being afraid to spend anything and being

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being a money hoarder, or from being obsessed with what

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money gets us right, right, it's they seem like complete opposites,

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but they're but there there are two branches on the

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same tree, right, and it's it's having not a healthy

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relationship or understanding of money.

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Speaker 4: Do you think that? Do you think that younger kids

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are starting to do that?

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Speaker 3: More?

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Speaker 2: Like?

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Speaker 4: Do you think is this something that because I mean,

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I have have millennials and then I have a gen Z.

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I guess she's a gen help. I don't know what

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she is. I don't know what are you at fifteen?

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Speaker 2: Now?

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Speaker 4: I don't even know what that is.

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Speaker 3: It's gen something I don't know, isn't it gen Z?

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I think maybe.

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Speaker 4: See thank you?

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Speaker 3: Yeah?

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Speaker 4: But the kids nowadays, I think like one of our

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millennial kids.

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Speaker 5: He is a saver.

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Speaker 4: He is like kind of like your mom mock and

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so and I, you know, we're not I don't know

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where that comes from. I mean, it's just good to save,

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but it's like we're not as good, Like he's just

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really overly savy. And then I want and I think

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that our youngest is going to be like that too,

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you know. So is this like I wonder if it's

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like a it skips a generation or something, or if

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there are like if some of the younger kids nowadays

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are becoming more financially responsible, maybe tipping the other way,

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like they're not spendy spendy.

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Speaker 3: Like well you get next.

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Speaker 5: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: So I've seen a lot of I've seen a lot

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of that actually, and and it's funny because it doesn't

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seem to fit that generation, but there is a lot

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of that like intense saving, right, the big push this

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would be more uh millennials, but that big hole what

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is it?

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Speaker 5: Fire? The whole fire deal? Right, which is what.

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Speaker 2: Is what does the stand for retire uh something, It's

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it's an acronym, it's f I and then retire early.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know you're yeah, because they do

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want to retire early. Yeah, I don't want to want anymore.

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Yeah right, well, you know what I mean. They want

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to We like working, and I'm I'm fine with working

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until I'm seven. I just feel like, in my brain,

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I'm going to work until i'm probab in my seventies.

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I just have this in my brain and there's no way,

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my milletit. They're like, I don't want to do that.

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That sounds realable.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I mean, and part of that will, like

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you know, I think part of that comes with age,

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meaning you know, they're going to realize, Okay, if I'm

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not working, what am I gonna do? Right?

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Speaker 5: And I can only vacation so much, and I can

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only play so many rounds.

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Speaker 3: Of golf, and you know, being productive it matters.

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Speaker 2: But my point is being I think this is so

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symptomatic of just I think we have very bad financial

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health in this country right where just too much importance,

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either like I said, hoarding the money or being obsessed

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with what the money gets you, and you know, being

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all flash and all show and all this kind of stuff,

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and all of it boils back down at the end

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of the day quality of life and joy. Right, that's

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what's the most important, right, And we as human beings

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are always going to believe that the reason we're not

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happy is because of what we don't.

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Speaker 4: Have out right, right.

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Speaker 5: And it just doesn't work that way.

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Speaker 2: It's like my coach used to say, it's that line

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off of Cool Runnings.

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Speaker 5: Right. Maybe I told you guys this, but if you're.

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Speaker 3: Not enough without it, you'll never be enough with it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, and just having that it's money is

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a tool like anything else, and if you think about

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it in any.

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Speaker 3: Other way, you're going to get off track and cost.

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Speaker 5: Right, so you've got cost.

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Speaker 2: We all know the cost about being financially irresponsible, it's

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being broke, right. The cost of being too money focused

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and too stringent on spending is unhappiness, right because now, yeah,

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you're not a slave to money, but you sort of are.

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You're slave in a different way. You're not paying debt,

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you're not paying interest expense, but you're paying interest. It's

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your own quality of life. And I want to look

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at those people and go, guys, what are you what.

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Speaker 5: Are you waiting for?

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Speaker 3: Gon arount of money? I'm like, you haven't even started

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spending it.

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Speaker 2: It's not possible to run you know, look, let let's

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we're gonna put you in you know, we're gonna take

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fifty percent of your portfolio and put it in these

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US government bonds paying four and a half to five percent,

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and you're gonna draw down two and a half percent

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of that, so half of that interest, which means no

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matter what your account value is still going to go up. Right,

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That is not being irresponsible. It's just not right. Your

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money is still growing, you're using it, So it's just

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not being a slave to money. And I think one

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of the wonderful things to do that, And this sounds

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kind of crazy, but one of the wonderful things, and

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I've seen it happen over and over and over giving

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the charity right, give money away, Yes, okay, why it

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will make you more if you have spending issues and

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pay off your debts first. But but but giving money

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to charities, especially ones that you believe in and ones

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that you've vetted, it will make you better at managing

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your money.

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Speaker 5: I guarantee.

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Speaker 2: I have never, ever, once in my life I've seen

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somebody that went broke because they gave too much money

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to charity. I've never seen that, right, And it just

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it doesn't work that way. The other side is you're

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gonna get way more joy and enjoyment out of that

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than you think you are.

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Speaker 5: Right.

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Speaker 3: The other thing my wife and I talk about all.

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Speaker 2: The time is you know when you've been when you've

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been blessed financially, there's a lot of when you're no

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longer constrain you know, there's there's this period of time

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in your life where you're financially responsible because you don't

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have a choice, right like, you don't have the money

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to buy things you want anyway. And when you have

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enough money and you're blessed enough to where you're no

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longer constrained that way where you've got to constrain yourself

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because you have them. Where with all the buy things,

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you quickly figure out I think if you're a well

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adjusted person, you quickly figure out that there's no there there,

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that the stuff isn't going to make you happy. You're

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going to be the same person with the same issues

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right again. And it relates to hoarding. If you think

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that next million is going to make you happy, through

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it won't. You're gonna feel just as insecure about this

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six million as you did the five.

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Speaker 5: It will not change.

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Speaker 2: And I think a wonderful way to put money in

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the right perspective in any life is to start giving

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some way. Yeah, it sounds zerous. Again, this is not

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me preaching from my book. Right, all of these things

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I'm talking about means there's less money in my client's accounts,

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so I'm getting paid less on it.

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Speaker 5: But it's still it's still true.

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Speaker 2: Right, Like, if you want to appreciate money, if you

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want more joy in your life, go give something away.

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And I think especially for those people that struggle with

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that hoarding thing, you know, you want to talk about

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a way to inject some joy in your life and

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and and put money in the right perspective. Right, we

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shouldn't be freaked out all the time. You should, right,

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It should be looked at as a.

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Speaker 5: Tool, and we just placed too much importance on it.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I love that nice charity.

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Speaker 1: Have you had to, like, have you had to drop

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clients because they just absolutely will not take your advice

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either when it comes to spending too much or not

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spending enough.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well, so I've never had to do it with

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a client that doesn't spend enough. I cannot recall a

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time where I wasn't able to get them to loosen

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up with it because you get to know these people, right,

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and they become like family, and so you're literally and

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when they reach their retirement goals and we can they

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can fund the retirement, I say, we we help them

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with it. We didn't make the money for them. But

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and you're like, hey, you accomplish your goals. You want

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to see them. I want to hear the I want

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to hear the stories of the vacation they went on.

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I want to see the pictures from them taking their

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kids to have you know, their grandkids to Africa.

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Speaker 5: I want to see these things.

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Speaker 2: And you want them to have a wonderful life, right,

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You want to see it. You want to be a

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part of it. You want to help them finance it.

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And so we usually they've been able to. Like I said,

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I can't think of a scenario where I wasn't able

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to let somebody get somebody to loosen up a little bit.

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On the flip side, i've had to I've had to

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fire a couple of clients because they were spending too much.

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And yeah, and the thing that I said was, listen,

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you're not listening to our guidance. Okay, you are spending

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too much and too fast, and well, yeah, why does

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that impact you? And I go, because you're gonna you're

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gonna seriously screw up your whole financial picture. It most

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likely is gonna happen at the wrong times when markets

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are down, and inevitably you're not gonna blame you. You're

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clearly an irresponsible person, right, You're not gonna blame you.

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Speaker 5: So what are you gonna do?

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Speaker 2: You're gonna walk around and say how Bullwarker Zach Abraham

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screwed you up? And so I'm like, look, I want

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to get you off my books before you you know,

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because your name, especially in this business, your name and

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reputation is all you have.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, And so part of the thing is like you

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staying client.

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Speaker 2: You're like, I know for a fact, you're not gonna

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go tell people you were irresponsible. You're gonna probably try

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to put it on us. Yeah, and it's just not

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worth the bad press. The other side of it is,

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I don't want to be doing that because it's depressing.

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Speaker 1: Well, it sounds like to me it's and maybe I mean,

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maybe this is over generalizing, but it sounds a lot

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like the key is much like your diet The key

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is moderation. In everything you're spending, you're saving. You shouldn't

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be doing too much of either thing, right, That moderation

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is key. There's got to be some balance and that's

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that is the kind of advice that people can get

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from you when they talk to you and they do

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one of their one of your free consultations. Tell people

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how they can do that.

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Speaker 2: Yes, so pretty easy to find us. You go to

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Bulwarkcapitalmanagement dot com. We have our free webinars that we're doing.

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We've got another one coming up, I believe in two

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weeks so yeah, No, we had a little bit longer

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in two weeks. So it's coming up at May. Yeah,

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May twenty second, Thursday, May twenty second, at three pm.

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All you got to do three thirty pm. Go to

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our website Bulwarkcpitalmanagement dot com.

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Speaker 5: Sign up.

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Speaker 2: I think that's you can also call us directly and

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set up a consultation. But I think the road shows

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and the webinars are the easiest way because it's about

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a forty five minute deal.

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Speaker 3: We walk you through what we do, how we do, what.

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Speaker 2: Makes us different. We are active managers. We explain what

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that means, right, We're not just sticking you in funds

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and leaving in there and telling you to ride the

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market up and down. Right, we can generate positive returns

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even when the market's down. We're actually having a nice

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year so far. And just explaining to you what that

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looks like, and you know, just that concept. People are like,

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wait a second, your guys, is a counselor up in

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the market's down, Like, how's that possible? And you go,

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it's very possible. We'll show you how, right, And so

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just explaining to people our risk management process. You guys,

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were only down seven percent during COVID, How is that possible?

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Speaker 5: Market was down thirty six percent. It's not magic. Here's

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how we do it.

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Speaker 2: So by the time we're done with that webinar, you'll

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have a very good idea who we are, how we

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do it, our method, and then from there, if you

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want to set up a consultation with me or one

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of our advisors, we're happy to do it.

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Speaker 3: Awesome, Thank you, Zach, all right, thank you.

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Speaker 5: Ladies, thanks for having me on again.

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Speaker 2: Investment advisory services offered through Trek Financial locn SEC registered

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investment advisor. The opinions expressed in this programmer for general

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informational purposes only, and are not intended to provide specific

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or recommendations for any individual or on any specific security.

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Any references to performance of securities so are thought to

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be materially accurate, and actual performance may different.

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Speaker 3: Investments involved risk and are not guaranteed.

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Speaker 5: Past performance doesn't guarantee future results. Track twenty four three

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zero eight