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Speaker 1: Good afternoon. You're listening to Gambling with an Edge. Now

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here are your hosts, Bob Dancer and Richard Munchkin. Good afternoon,

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Welcome to Gambling with an Edge. I'm Bob Dancer and

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I'm Richard Munchkin. Today we're having one of our irregular podcasts.

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We used to do this weekly and now we do

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it somewhere, but semi irregularly.

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Speaker 2: Whatever the spirit moves us.

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Speaker 1: And the spirit today is moved this because because of

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artificial intelligence that is being used for all kinds of things.

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And I had a conversation, a brief conversation with Buddy

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a couple months ago with Buddy Frank, who is going

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to be our guest today, and he mentioned he knew

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something about that, so I figured maybe had enough first show,

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and he said he did and he would love to

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come and talk to us. So, Buddy Frank, welcome back

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to Gambling with an Edge.

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Speaker 3: Glad to be here, Bob and Richard, So.

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Speaker 1: Our listeners in Jen. Actually, maybe we should define artificial intelligence.

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I assume everybody knows what it is, but maybe they don't. Uh.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, No, I think we should definitely talk about what

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exactly do we mean when we say they're using AI

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to help them in the casinos.

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Speaker 3: Oh God, lets you, because I find so many people

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have no idea what that term means. Do you want

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a little background.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, there was a great movie out a while back,

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should have been on your recommended list several years ago,

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but it was called The Imitation Game about a fellow,

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a Allen Turn, and it was how he broke the

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Enigma code using some of the very first computers, which

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he helped invent.

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Speaker 3: But they really didn't tell you what the Imitation Game was.

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That came later in his career, about nineteen fifty wrote

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a paper in which he tried to do a test.

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He called it the Turing test to see if machines

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can think, and it was very interesting test. For years

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no one could pass it, but now you can probably

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do it with your Apple Watch. And then I think

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about nineteen fifty five, there was a workshop at Dartmouth

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where they coined the word artificial intelligence. So it's been

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around since nineteen fifty five. People I talked to talk

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about like it's just come on in the last five years.

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Probably has a drone above your house and Arnold Schwarzenegger's

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in it and going to drop down in your backyard naked.

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But all artificial intelligence really is is the analyzing of data.

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And what's changed is it so darn fast. Now we

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can do things we never imagine we could do because

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they were quite frankly impossible to do. And in the

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casino world, probably more than most business, we have a

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whole bunch of data. In fact, early in my career

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most I'm really close and really love slot systems, and

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early in my career everybody complained that, hey, we have

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so much data, we can't handle it. So sadly what

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they did is just didn't look at other data because

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they couldn't handle it. But now memory's gotten cheaper, computers

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have gotten faster, costs have come down, and now there's

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some really great things going on for casino operators, for

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game designers, and I'll argue in many cases for the players.

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Because artificial intelligence is there. We can talk about that

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as the show goes on.

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Speaker 2: Okay, so the casinos had all this data. Now things

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have gotten cheaper, and what do they do?

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Speaker 3: Well, we can analyze things we never thought about. And

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I could give you a thousand examples, but I'll mention one.

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I finished my career with a great casino called Pachanga,

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and the southern California casinos did really well, and thank

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you very much. They had lots of capital to explore

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new technology, so well before most of my competitors. We

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went to the tribe and said, hey, we want to

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put a high speed network on our floor, but we

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need to buy a bunch of switches from companies like Cisco,

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and we need to buy a lot of big computers

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from Dell, and we need memory from a company called EMC.

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And it's only going to cost you four million dollars.

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And if I was working for a corporation, I probably

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would have been fired because they would have said, well,

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what's the return on investment next week? And I would

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have said nothing, but it's really good for the future,

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and that would have really got me fired fast. But

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at Pachanga, they went ahead. Because of that we could

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do all kinds of advanced things, and we had to

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prove to them how we would make that money back

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in the future. I'll give you a really simple example.

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But John got a relatively small hotel, not like the

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mega hotels of Las Vegas. But when they had a

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special event like New Year's Eve, guess who we invite

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to stay in the hotels all the players who spend

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the most money per trip. We call it average daily

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trip budget. So I don't know if you guys would

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ever be on that list. But let's assume that you're

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what I call a ten thousand ADT and up player,

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meaning every trip you wagered ten thousand dollars, some people

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one hundred thousand, and so on. So the host would

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always put those people in the hotel first. But once

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we started analyzing more data. What data am I talking about? Well,

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what if we take a look at the hotel data,

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see how those players that were the ten thousand changed

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their behavior when they stayed in the hotel versus when

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they didn't. And we found some players maybe did twenty thousand,

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some maybe only did ten thousand and five hundred. But

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we looked at two thousand dollars players or one thousand

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dollars players and saw when we put them in the

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hotel they went up to ten thousand or higher. But

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changed our whole thinking. We'd never really analyzed what was

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the impact of play when they stayed in the hotel

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versus when they didn't. We always had the data, but

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we didn't have anybody to go out and say, let's

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do all this, because it took too much time and

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too much effort to look at all players how they

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did this time that go clear down to an one

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hundred dollars player. We didn't look at how they changed.

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That one change alone generated enough incremental revenue to pay

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for our entire memory upgrade, which I think at the

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time it's about three to four million dollars.

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Speaker 2: So didn't you need to hire data scientists pardon me,

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didn't you need to hire data scientists.

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Speaker 3: In addition to buying all that equipment? That's exactly right.

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In fact, I think for the first time we hired

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people that had that weird title attached to their name

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data scientists. You know before that we had it guys,

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and we had financial analysis and stuff. But now all

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of a sudden, we hired data scientists because that example

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I gave you is very simple, because you might actually

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take four or five or six or seven or eight

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qualities like that and put them all in your database

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to make better decisions.

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Speaker 2: And how long ago how many years ago was this?

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Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, that was about fifteen to twenty years ago.

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And not only could we do more advanced technical things

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like at one time we turned every machine in Pachanga

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except for the real spinning machines. We turned every video

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machine into a tournament and for about a half an

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hour every game in the casino. I think there was

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twenty two hundred and we set a Guinness World record,

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turned into a tournament machine, and then as soon as

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the tournament was over, it turned back into a regular machine. God,

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we had record revenues that day because everybody got all

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excited because I don't know if you know, but tournament

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software it generally features like one thousand percent payback on

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the games versus a regular machine maybe seven eight or

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nine or five six, seven eight or nine as far

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as the casino hold. And so everybody went crazy and

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we had a great turn. Well you couldn't do that

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with the old networks, but with a new one. In

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advanced technology, things are better and it's getting better better

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every day, and I can talk about that and also

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talk about some of the products that are getting all

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kinds of positive and negative attention.

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Speaker 1: Let's talk about how casinos use it to evaluate player performance.

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Speaker 3: That's why I made the point earlier talking about how

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we always had the data, but we didn't necessarily know

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how to analyze it. Meaning Bob, I could always look

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at my slot system and look at your coin in

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your number of handle pulls, win loss percentage, and I

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put the machine data in there, so I knew whether

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it was a it had a theoretical hold of x percent.

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And as you know better than anybody in products like

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video poker, how the heck do you determine what the

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theo hold is? Meaning mathematically you and I can tell

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exactly what the theoretical hold is if someone plays it perfectly,

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But in the real world there's people who play it

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horribly and a whole range of people in between. And

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so we just plug been a number, and then once

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a year, by regulations, you'd take a look at the

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actual number and adjust it as you got closer. And

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in case any of your listeners got lost in that,

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let me give you example of a multi game that

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had a one percent poker in it and an eleven

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percent video slot machine, and they were both in the

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same cabinet. Well, what we used to do was just go, hey,

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one plus eleven, that's twelve divided into it's a six

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percent hold game. And by golly, at the end, of

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one year, we find the machine was really about a

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two percent hold because most people played the video poker

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instead of the video real game, and not everybody as

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good at playing poker as Richard and you are, Bob,

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and so we'd adjust the game to two percent. The

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problem is, guys like you, who are really good players

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and take maximum advantage of all our programs, you'd be

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racking up points at six percent, when if I had

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really good data on you, i'd probably have you percentage

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of what you were actually playing. So for some advantage players,

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that's not good. The good news for you, guys is

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not everyone in the world has taken advantage of these

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great tools. And I would tell you that in the

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real world, probably only twenty to thirty percent of the

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computers are using advanced AI programs, and I'll mention a

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few of those as we go on, and then they

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don't learn the tools they have. So, as you know,

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and as you can read all kinds of tip sheets

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out in the industry, there's still places where you might

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find they're out of whack with what they reward and

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how they reward players. And that works really well for

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advantage players.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean when people nowadays, hear ai, they think

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of chat GPT or you know, Gemini, and are the

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are the casinos using those things or are they getting

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some kind of uh software that does the equivalent that's

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geared specifically toward casinos. How how is all that changing now?

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Speaker 3: I'm glad you mentioned that because I've been using that

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for some time now and it's fascinating. We're now up

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to chat GPT version four and five is in beta

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but not out yet. But the first thing I ask

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people is do you have any idea what GPT means for?

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And it means generative pre tram transformer. Well, now that

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you know that, you know everything. I mean, that's really confusing.

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What it really is is what they call a large

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language model. Let me make it even simpler. What this

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program does is go out and look at everything ever

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written because of the Internet and because the speed is

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so fast, and tries to figure out what may be

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the next word and what you're trying to write. Pretty

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simple and sounds simple, but you've got to remember all

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these computers anyway only a function with ones and zeros,

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and that's incomprehensible to some people. But what this does

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is look at language models and determine how you should

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probably say something. Well, you can use this for a

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lot of things. I'm a writer, as you may or

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may not know, and every once in a while I

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write a story I think it's brilliant, but I'll go

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to chat GPT four to Zho and say, hey, can

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you improve on this? And it's amazing. One is it's

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a great editor. All those stupid typos I make and

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the wrong verb tenses and everything, it corrects all those immediately. Unfortunately,

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half the time it takes out the heart of the

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story I'm doing, and in some case is it'll even

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put in mistakes. But I gotta tell you, I used

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to use chat GPT three point zero and it was

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full of mistakes. Four. Oh pretty darn good. It's almost

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mistake free, not totally, and every once in a while

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it'll invent stuff. But guess what, we're just in the

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infancy of these large language models, and they're getting better

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and better and better every day. Now, what you really

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want to know is how the casino's are using these

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large language models. It's mainly in that probably the host

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and all the folks in marketing aren't really necessarily great writers.

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They should be, but they're not all. So a lot

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of times that offer you're getting on your email now

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or in your text message might come through chat GPT,

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and it's probably written pretty damn well, and it might

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even automatically fine tune the offer, so I could send

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out the exact same offer that five years ago or

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ten years ago. Would just look if hey, Bob's in

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this ADT group of two point fifty to six hundred

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and Richard's in there too, so we'll send them the

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exact same letter. Well, there's a big difference between a

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two hundred and one dollar player and a five hundred

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and ninety nine dollars player. Huge difference in those two guys,

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and something like this could actually taylor each offer to

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00:15:20,759 --> 00:15:23,200
each of those levels, So instead of having three or

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four or five tiers, it might have ten thousand tiers

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based on your gaming habits. So hopefully it'll it'll get

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everyone a more common playing field and a good value

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for their play.

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Speaker 1: Now.

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Speaker 3: I know YouTube guys like to get a better than

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deserved of value, and again, not everyone is using these tools,

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so you've got a good future ahead of you.

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Speaker 2: So I remember hearing Geez twenty years ago or more

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that somebody had the patent on video poker, on analyzing

261
00:16:03,440 --> 00:16:07,480
video poker in real time to give you an exact

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theoretical of the player playing the game, but they never

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had implemented it. And I'm wondering, is that is that

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a reality now? Are they finally doing that?

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Speaker 3: There are several people who have out products that are

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reported to do that. IGT has a product out that

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works on their newest pokers that will do that acres,

268
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and they have a product, their own slot system or

269
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slot supplemental system called Foundation, and it offers that program.

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In other words, when it looks at me and I

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run one hundred dollars through a video poker, it says, hey,

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buddy's pretty good player. Let's give him five dollars of

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free play because of that. And Bob plays that same

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video poker machine and the system goes, oh my god,

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this guy's incredible. Let's give him two cents because he

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is really good. So those are the future out there.

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Very few people have used it, which surprised me. I

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thought more people would and I think we talked about

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this a year or two ago about how these programs

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were coming, but not everybody has implemented it.

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Speaker 1: Yet.

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Speaker 3: In fact, very few have implemented it.

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Speaker 1: But it's so players who had a choice between playing

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on brand new machines in a casino or the same

285
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game on a machine that was ten years old, probably,

286
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assuming they're a good player, would be better off playing

287
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on the older machines because they would be less detectable.

288
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Is that fair?

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00:17:42,720 --> 00:17:45,839
Speaker 3: Depending on the product they use. The Acres product they

290
00:17:45,880 --> 00:17:49,839
say will work on all the older machines, the IGT

291
00:17:50,039 --> 00:17:52,720
product last time I checked, and they just did a

292
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new version, so I'll have to check that one out, Bob.

293
00:17:56,680 --> 00:17:59,799
But last time I checked, the IGT model only worked

294
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on newer pokers. I'll give you a little operator thing

295
00:18:03,400 --> 00:18:09,200
about new pokers versus old I highly recommend casinos buy

296
00:18:09,279 --> 00:18:13,640
new pokers because they don't have sticky buttons and technology

297
00:18:13,720 --> 00:18:17,000
seeing certainly the screens are brighter and better, But it's

298
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kind of hard because that new poker machine probably won't

299
00:18:20,559 --> 00:18:23,359
make one penny more than the old one unless you're

300
00:18:23,400 --> 00:18:27,440
taking advantage of more of the action gaming products. You know,

301
00:18:27,720 --> 00:18:32,119
the Ultimate X super Duper might require a new machine,

302
00:18:32,119 --> 00:18:34,000
but it's kind of hard to go out and buy

303
00:18:34,000 --> 00:18:36,839
a new machine and your boss says, how much more

304
00:18:37,119 --> 00:18:39,880
money will it make And you have to tell them, well,

305
00:18:39,920 --> 00:18:42,680
probably not much more because people like the old one.

306
00:18:42,680 --> 00:18:46,000
Well why are we getting new ones? It's because of

307
00:18:46,039 --> 00:18:49,119
those we don't have the sticky buttons. They're much better.

308
00:18:49,160 --> 00:18:51,640
They'll go into the future. The other one, you know,

309
00:18:51,720 --> 00:18:55,119
the mechanics out there fixing something every ten minutes. It's

310
00:18:55,160 --> 00:18:58,319
going to be better for guest service. So you notice

311
00:18:58,359 --> 00:19:01,000
an awful lot of casinos are up greeting their machines.

312
00:19:01,039 --> 00:19:03,400
In fact, years ago, one of the first companies to

313
00:19:03,440 --> 00:19:05,759
replace all the pokers was Caesars, and I went, what

314
00:19:05,880 --> 00:19:09,519
a stupid decision. They got one of the worst video

315
00:19:09,559 --> 00:19:14,960
poker products in the industry, least played because they're generally tight,

316
00:19:15,119 --> 00:19:17,960
at least under the old Caesars management. They sure wear

317
00:19:18,000 --> 00:19:19,920
and you can tell me if they still are, abob,

318
00:19:20,480 --> 00:19:24,160
But they bought all new pokers instead of buying other

319
00:19:24,200 --> 00:19:28,720
slot machines, and I was surprised by that. But I

320
00:19:28,759 --> 00:19:31,480
think probably everyone's going to end up in the very

321
00:19:31,559 --> 00:19:36,759
near future, Bob, of being able to track the quality

322
00:19:36,799 --> 00:19:40,079
of play to the player, whether they use it or not,

323
00:19:40,480 --> 00:19:41,400
that's up for debate.

324
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Speaker 1: I'm actually surprised as taking this long to be able

325
00:19:44,720 --> 00:19:49,240
to evaluate video poker players. The products that I used

326
00:19:49,240 --> 00:19:51,920
to sell, like win poker or video poker for winners,

327
00:19:51,920 --> 00:19:55,880
and there were a couple other brands where you could

328
00:19:55,960 --> 00:19:58,960
play them and they would tell you immediately what your

329
00:20:00,039 --> 00:20:04,640
percent and jacuracy was. And that's been available twenty thirty years,

330
00:20:05,319 --> 00:20:09,920
and so the player community had that software. I don't

331
00:20:09,920 --> 00:20:14,000
see why the casino community didn't have it, but I

332
00:20:14,039 --> 00:20:16,400
was perfectly happy that they didn't have it. But I

333
00:20:16,640 --> 00:20:17,960
am well.

334
00:20:18,160 --> 00:20:21,000
Speaker 3: That brings up two great things. One is I never

335
00:20:21,119 --> 00:20:25,480
could understand why more people didn't use your products. I've

336
00:20:25,480 --> 00:20:27,880
got it on I've got the old version on several

337
00:20:27,920 --> 00:20:31,880
of my old computers plus my new one, and now

338
00:20:31,920 --> 00:20:37,880
there's a similar version out there on on the action

339
00:20:38,039 --> 00:20:41,279
gaming sites. And they were wonderful, but not very many

340
00:20:41,279 --> 00:20:44,599
people used it. In fact that I've written reviews of

341
00:20:44,640 --> 00:20:47,039
your books forever and tell anybody you'd be an idiot

342
00:20:47,039 --> 00:20:50,319
to play poker and not read these books. But I

343
00:20:50,359 --> 00:20:52,680
see the real results, and I find all kinds of

344
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people do dumb things. Richard. You probably see all those

345
00:20:55,279 --> 00:20:58,920
players who played triple lot roulette. You know what's wrong

346
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with them. So those kinds of things happen the problem,

347
00:21:03,920 --> 00:21:06,400
Bob is the slot machines have a set of standards

348
00:21:06,400 --> 00:21:10,079
called SASS how they communicate, and in the case of

349
00:21:10,200 --> 00:21:13,279
video poker, for winners, you know, you've got control of

350
00:21:13,319 --> 00:21:15,720
both sides. You can see the outcomes, and that same

351
00:21:15,759 --> 00:21:19,079
program can evaluate whether that was a good player bad play,

352
00:21:19,079 --> 00:21:24,119
and suggest alternate better plays. The slot machine doesn't talk

353
00:21:24,160 --> 00:21:27,519
to the analytical software in quite the same way, except

354
00:21:27,519 --> 00:21:30,720
for these newer products like ACRES and the IGT solution.

355
00:21:32,000 --> 00:21:34,359
I think in the future they'll all have that capability,

356
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but right now they don't.

357
00:21:36,279 --> 00:21:39,720
Speaker 2: Another thing we've been hearing about that is supposed to

358
00:21:39,720 --> 00:21:45,680
be coming is cameras built into the machines that will

359
00:21:45,720 --> 00:21:49,480
recognize the players as soon as they sit down and

360
00:21:49,599 --> 00:21:52,680
whether they're using a player's card or not. I mean,

361
00:21:53,279 --> 00:21:54,200
are those is.

362
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Speaker 3: That started to happen?

363
00:21:55,319 --> 00:21:57,000
Speaker 2: Are those in casinos now?

364
00:21:57,960 --> 00:22:00,319
Speaker 3: Actually? I think it was you and I Bob undering

365
00:22:00,440 --> 00:22:03,640
the floor three years ago at G two E yep,

366
00:22:03,839 --> 00:22:06,599
and what was left to Ballys. You know, they've had

367
00:22:06,640 --> 00:22:10,759
seventy three name changes since then, but they had little

368
00:22:10,799 --> 00:22:15,079
cameras staring right at Bob Dancer on the video poker games,

369
00:22:15,880 --> 00:22:19,400
and you know, operators will go on this, It's great,

370
00:22:19,480 --> 00:22:22,640
you know we'll be able to solve problem gam and everything. Well,

371
00:22:22,640 --> 00:22:27,160
it went over like a lead balloon. Some states, Illinois

372
00:22:27,279 --> 00:22:32,000
is Won, for example, have outlawed facial recognition tech genology,

373
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and based on negative feedback, almost all the companies dropped

374
00:22:36,799 --> 00:22:40,519
their efforts of that. You may or may not know

375
00:22:40,720 --> 00:22:46,240
most surveillance departments use facial recognition to the spot band

376
00:22:46,319 --> 00:22:51,440
players or shobble makers or criminals. But that technology hasn't

377
00:22:51,440 --> 00:22:54,279
made it down to the slot floor. And I don't

378
00:22:54,279 --> 00:22:57,279
think because of these privacy concerns and the laws I

379
00:22:57,359 --> 00:23:00,720
talked about, that it will. So I think you're safe there.

380
00:23:01,079 --> 00:23:03,240
I have some other ways I wish we could track you.

381
00:23:03,720 --> 00:23:06,359
Speaker 2: Wait before we move to that. Does that apply in

382
00:23:06,440 --> 00:23:11,559
Illinois to surveillance? They can't use facial recognition in Illinois

383
00:23:11,839 --> 00:23:14,039
for surveillance, Richard.

384
00:23:14,119 --> 00:23:17,240
Speaker 3: Check it out from someone besides myself. I can ask

385
00:23:17,279 --> 00:23:22,559
that answer. I am seeing the World Game Protection Conference

386
00:23:22,599 --> 00:23:25,240
coming up, and I can ask them that about Illinois

387
00:23:25,240 --> 00:23:27,640
because some of their regulators will be there. But I

388
00:23:27,720 --> 00:23:30,839
believe that applies to all industries, not just casinos.

389
00:23:31,160 --> 00:23:31,440
Speaker 1: Wow.

390
00:23:32,920 --> 00:23:35,039
Speaker 3: And I don't know which other states, but i'd heard

391
00:23:35,119 --> 00:23:38,079
some other states are doing that one of those privacy

392
00:23:38,160 --> 00:23:39,400
concerned things.

393
00:23:39,839 --> 00:23:41,400
Speaker 2: Yeah sounds good to me.

394
00:23:42,559 --> 00:23:46,240
Speaker 1: Changing gears for a little bit. Slots is not the

395
00:23:46,279 --> 00:23:50,240
same as video poker. A couple months ago, the MGM

396
00:23:50,400 --> 00:23:54,680
made a big splash in the news because they're going

397
00:23:54,759 --> 00:23:57,519
to be using AI to look at all the slot

398
00:23:57,599 --> 00:24:03,319
machines that people play and the ones who only play

399
00:24:04,599 --> 00:24:09,160
machines of a certain type. MGM is going to either

400
00:24:09,200 --> 00:24:13,400
restrict them or eliminate them from the casino. Do you

401
00:24:13,400 --> 00:24:14,240
know anything about that?

402
00:24:15,160 --> 00:24:17,960
Speaker 3: Sure, But it's not just MGM. I find most of

403
00:24:17,960 --> 00:24:22,359
those corporate guys or years behind in their technology. I

404
00:24:22,400 --> 00:24:25,839
got to give you a little background. I love the

405
00:24:25,880 --> 00:24:30,160
subject of AI for analytics. You call it business intelligence,

406
00:24:31,400 --> 00:24:35,839
but I worked both with Gaming Analytics when they were founded,

407
00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:38,519
I was on their advisory board for a couple of years,

408
00:24:39,160 --> 00:24:42,200
and today I do a little consulting with a company

409
00:24:42,440 --> 00:24:49,799
called Quick Customs Intelligence QCI, and they're both analytical programs

410
00:24:49,799 --> 00:24:54,359
to do that. There are about ten other minor ones.

411
00:24:54,519 --> 00:24:59,079
Those two are the major ones. If anybody wants, I

412
00:24:59,079 --> 00:25:00,759
can look up while we're t in the names of

413
00:25:00,799 --> 00:25:03,039
all the others, But those are the two major ones,

414
00:25:03,079 --> 00:25:05,039
and they do all kinds of things like that bop

415
00:25:05,480 --> 00:25:08,839
they look at the players. And I wrote an article

416
00:25:08,920 --> 00:25:15,400
a while back about the industries upsetting about machines that

417
00:25:16,319 --> 00:25:23,240
I call it perceived persistence and true persistence machines. Do

418
00:25:23,319 --> 00:25:27,279
I need to explain those to your audience planningly? Okay?

419
00:25:27,359 --> 00:25:32,079
Persistence is jeezus machine like hex Breaker was one of

420
00:25:32,119 --> 00:25:34,920
the first big ones. But going way back, there was

421
00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:39,039
a machine called diamond Mine from IGT and I'll use

422
00:25:39,079 --> 00:25:42,440
that one explain. You're looking at the slot machine and

423
00:25:42,480 --> 00:25:46,200
over at the side as a tube, and every time

424
00:25:46,240 --> 00:25:49,359
you had hit a certain combination, a diamond that jump

425
00:25:49,480 --> 00:25:51,839
up and drop in that tube, and you could see

426
00:25:51,880 --> 00:25:54,000
it over there on the right hand side of the screen.

427
00:25:54,640 --> 00:25:57,559
And when that tube got filled to the top with diamonds,

428
00:25:58,000 --> 00:26:03,119
boone me get a jackpot. That is true persistence. And

429
00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:07,079
today there are several machines out in the industry, very popular,

430
00:26:07,279 --> 00:26:12,680
that are true persistence, meaning if certain conditions occur, you

431
00:26:12,720 --> 00:26:18,160
almost can't lose. Even simpler example, let's talk about video poker.

432
00:26:19,079 --> 00:26:21,880
They have a progressive meter on that. And if you

433
00:26:21,920 --> 00:26:23,559
were one of the guys who went out a long

434
00:26:23,599 --> 00:26:27,119
time ago like I did, and bought Bob Dancer's video

435
00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:30,680
poker for winners you could put in you can change

436
00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:34,000
the top award, and you'll notice as it gets bigger,

437
00:26:34,440 --> 00:26:36,759
all of a sudden, the machine. It may have been

438
00:26:36,759 --> 00:26:39,480
a ninety nine point five, All of a sudden, now

439
00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:42,000
it's one hundred or one hundred and ten or one

440
00:26:42,079 --> 00:26:45,200
hundred and twenty percent payback. So you could see as

441
00:26:45,240 --> 00:26:51,359
the progressive grows, the machine almost can ever lose my luck.

442
00:26:51,400 --> 00:26:55,119
It can still lose, but basically overall you're going to

443
00:26:55,160 --> 00:26:57,799
be a winner. It progressive. So that's a form of

444
00:26:57,880 --> 00:27:04,440
persistence machines. How should operators feel about them? Well, guess what,

445
00:27:04,640 --> 00:27:08,000
when those jackpots get we'll use the simple video poker

446
00:27:08,559 --> 00:27:13,119
instead of the persistence machine. So when that jackpots gets bigger,

447
00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:15,599
I notice, all of a sudden, the coin end goes up.

448
00:27:16,240 --> 00:27:19,079
So I'm really happy. More players are playing it. They're

449
00:27:19,119 --> 00:27:23,480
going crazy playing it, and everybody's happy. The casino's happy

450
00:27:23,480 --> 00:27:26,559
because we have increased volume. Not so good when it

451
00:27:26,640 --> 00:27:29,519
hits and resets back down to four thousand, because now

452
00:27:29,519 --> 00:27:32,839
it's minimal play. But that'll happen again as it builds.

453
00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:38,000
That's been going on for years in Big Link banks.

454
00:27:38,000 --> 00:27:40,880
It can get abused sometimes by what we call team play,

455
00:27:41,519 --> 00:27:44,640
meaning on link there might be twenty machines all hooked

456
00:27:44,680 --> 00:27:48,279
to the same meter. So sometimes when it gets high,

457
00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:50,599
folks hire a whole team of players to play it

458
00:27:50,640 --> 00:27:52,839
and not let anyone else play it till they hit it.

459
00:27:54,279 --> 00:27:56,960
That was an abuse from the operator's point of view.

460
00:27:58,079 --> 00:28:01,559
From the team captains, it was a good money making strategy.

461
00:28:01,599 --> 00:28:03,559
You could still lose, but most of the time he won.

462
00:28:04,319 --> 00:28:09,920
But those weren't extreme. You get new persistence machine and

463
00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:14,079
you're going, what's the problem. When that diamond shoot gets full?

464
00:28:14,759 --> 00:28:18,039
People jump in there and play it, and what's the issue.

465
00:28:18,160 --> 00:28:21,599
I don't care. We're still getting the same whole percentage

466
00:28:21,640 --> 00:28:25,000
on the machine we always got. Well, the issue became

467
00:28:27,880 --> 00:28:30,759
I used John Smith as the average player comes in

468
00:28:30,799 --> 00:28:34,160
every day, plays machine a bit, and then here comes

469
00:28:34,400 --> 00:28:37,519
what I call the persistence mandit. The guy comes in,

470
00:28:37,920 --> 00:28:41,359
he only plays that machine when it's in a winning condition.

471
00:28:42,160 --> 00:28:45,720
What's the problem, We're still making money? Well, John Smith

472
00:28:45,839 --> 00:28:49,359
is upset because when he started there was one diamond

473
00:28:49,400 --> 00:28:51,759
in there and he filled it up three quarters and

474
00:28:51,839 --> 00:28:54,079
had to go to the bathroom or had to go

475
00:28:54,160 --> 00:28:57,319
home on the bus. That day, and or when he

476
00:28:57,359 --> 00:29:00,519
went to the bathroom he came back. There's the known

477
00:29:00,599 --> 00:29:04,680
persistence player hitting that jackpot for only playing a small amount.

478
00:29:05,799 --> 00:29:09,079
Great for the persistence player. He's smart, he's spotted machines

479
00:29:09,119 --> 00:29:12,160
in a favorable condition and played it and won the jackpot.

480
00:29:12,920 --> 00:29:15,279
But John, it's mad and doesn't come back to your

481
00:29:15,279 --> 00:29:18,839
casino again. So a lot of I think this peak

482
00:29:19,079 --> 00:29:23,799
is this resistance persistence machine peaked about two years ago,

483
00:29:24,319 --> 00:29:26,640
and a lot of operators now won't put in a

484
00:29:26,680 --> 00:29:32,039
persistence machine. The brand new one that got most of

485
00:29:32,079 --> 00:29:35,160
the hype at G two E this year was called

486
00:29:35,160 --> 00:29:39,039
Phoenix Link, a brand new machine from Aristocrats. Pretty good machine.

487
00:29:39,400 --> 00:29:43,359
It's got a persistence feature, but it's not as prominent,

488
00:29:43,519 --> 00:29:46,119
and a lot more that bonuses go to the other side.

489
00:29:46,599 --> 00:29:52,119
Now there's another thing called perceived persistence. My favorite game

490
00:29:52,160 --> 00:29:55,240
is from Aristocrat. I call it the Firecracker game. You've

491
00:29:55,240 --> 00:30:00,240
probably seen it with three strings of firecrackers hanging down them.

492
00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:02,599
You look at them, and only the bottom few layers

493
00:30:02,599 --> 00:30:06,759
of firecracker twinkling or some you know, they kind of

494
00:30:06,799 --> 00:30:11,119
glitter in the light. As a machine gets played more,

495
00:30:11,160 --> 00:30:16,720
you'll notice that those twinkling firecrackers climb up to the top.

496
00:30:17,079 --> 00:30:18,920
A lot of players will go over and jump on

497
00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:20,960
that machine because it looks like it's ready to hit,

498
00:30:20,960 --> 00:30:23,160
because when one of those strings get to the top,

499
00:30:23,279 --> 00:30:28,359
it can hit often does, but guess what that's perceived persistence,

500
00:30:28,359 --> 00:30:31,720
because machine can also hit when there's nothing flickering at all.

501
00:30:32,480 --> 00:30:37,799
So operators love those. And there's one other product I

502
00:30:37,920 --> 00:30:40,880
failed to mention that really got people going, and that's

503
00:30:40,920 --> 00:30:45,200
a special kind of progressive meter called must hit by

504
00:30:46,240 --> 00:30:50,319
and several manufacturers did Real Good Ainsworth really kind of

505
00:30:50,359 --> 00:30:53,599
pioneered this, and that means, let's say there's two or

506
00:30:53,599 --> 00:30:56,799
three meters, but one of them says must hit by

507
00:30:56,839 --> 00:31:00,119
one thousand dollars. So when the meters at five hundred,

508
00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:03,359
yeah you play it. That goes up. But what do

509
00:31:03,400 --> 00:31:06,200
you think happens when the meter says nine hundred and

510
00:31:06,240 --> 00:31:09,160
ninety eight dollars. All of a sudden, there's this guy,

511
00:31:09,240 --> 00:31:11,880
Bob Dancer playing it who have never seen before in

512
00:31:11,920 --> 00:31:16,680
our life, because he recognized this machine was in a

513
00:31:16,720 --> 00:31:20,480
winning condition and without too much coin in he'd probably win.

514
00:31:21,240 --> 00:31:28,160
So those also are getting some negative pushback from operators

515
00:31:28,319 --> 00:31:30,279
gms who say get rid of all the persons. I

516
00:31:30,319 --> 00:31:32,839
don't think you'd find a hacks breaker around anymore because

517
00:31:32,839 --> 00:31:36,599
so many people reacted negative. There's a version of Buffalo

518
00:31:36,680 --> 00:31:39,440
that's like that. And if you read any of the

519
00:31:39,440 --> 00:31:42,960
good books out there, you know the Wizard of Odds

520
00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:45,079
got one talent which games to look for, and a

521
00:31:45,119 --> 00:31:48,400
lot of people are writing columns about what games to

522
00:31:48,480 --> 00:31:50,720
look for. I urge you not to do that, becaus

523
00:31:50,799 --> 00:31:53,640
soon as gms and slot operators see that, that will

524
00:31:53,680 --> 00:31:58,319
crush out and remove those games. But therefore the good

525
00:31:58,359 --> 00:32:02,119
analytical programs are doing it. The problem once I identify

526
00:32:02,160 --> 00:32:06,279
a guy who only plays those machines, what do we

527
00:32:06,359 --> 00:32:09,440
do about it? And I don't know anyone who's come

528
00:32:09,519 --> 00:32:12,480
up with a good answer for that yet, Bob, I

529
00:32:12,519 --> 00:32:15,240
guess they could cut you off your club points, but

530
00:32:16,240 --> 00:32:19,759
you're still going to make money, so it's kind of

531
00:32:19,759 --> 00:32:22,480
a quandary. What we can do is not make you

532
00:32:22,559 --> 00:32:26,480
absurd offers and put you in the high roller suite

533
00:32:25,720 --> 00:32:29,839
and everything's free at the golf tournament and send you

534
00:32:29,880 --> 00:32:33,720
on our Norwegian cruise. But other than that, there's not

535
00:32:33,839 --> 00:32:36,599
a lot we can do about that. And sadly, some

536
00:32:36,640 --> 00:32:40,720
really fun games are not being purchased or put on

537
00:32:40,759 --> 00:32:44,440
the floor by some operators because of this problem. It's

538
00:32:44,440 --> 00:32:45,839
probably more than you want to know on this.

539
00:32:46,119 --> 00:32:49,200
Speaker 2: No, I mean some of the operators are throwing people out.

540
00:32:49,799 --> 00:32:54,039
I mean literally, you know, eighty six people for playing slots.

541
00:32:54,519 --> 00:32:58,519
Speaker 3: You ought to be familiar with that, Richard. I'm not

542
00:32:58,599 --> 00:33:01,920
a slot player, I know, but you were the first.

543
00:33:02,039 --> 00:33:05,440
Your table games players were the first victims of being

544
00:33:05,519 --> 00:33:09,240
excluded from because you know something, no good reason. Yeah,

545
00:33:09,279 --> 00:33:13,559
and it's hard to do that. So you know, that

546
00:33:13,599 --> 00:33:16,440
may be fine in a place like El Cortez, where

547
00:33:16,480 --> 00:33:18,920
you know all the players and you say hello to

548
00:33:18,960 --> 00:33:22,640
your friends, but try that in Yava mar Pachonga, where

549
00:33:22,640 --> 00:33:25,759
there's more than five thousand machines, or Windstar, where there's

550
00:33:25,759 --> 00:33:29,119
close to ten thousand. The place is packed, hard to

551
00:33:29,160 --> 00:33:29,920
get rid of people.

552
00:33:31,960 --> 00:33:35,319
Speaker 1: Well, it is actually is easy to get kicked out

553
00:33:35,720 --> 00:33:38,680
for slot hustling in El Cortez as it is to

554
00:33:38,720 --> 00:33:39,839
be counting cards.

555
00:33:41,279 --> 00:33:43,400
Speaker 3: They know the bad guys. That's the difference.

556
00:33:43,400 --> 00:33:48,920
Speaker 1: It is. One of the places that does that. They

557
00:33:48,920 --> 00:33:54,400
don't actually kick out, but they restrict is the airport

558
00:33:54,519 --> 00:33:59,440
in Las Vegas. The airport has lots of machines and

559
00:33:59,680 --> 00:34:05,039
they're the people who run those machines are actually eliminating players,

560
00:34:06,440 --> 00:34:09,519
are restricting them. They cannot tell them don't come back

561
00:34:09,519 --> 00:34:13,519
to the airport because the airport is a federal facility,

562
00:34:14,239 --> 00:34:17,719
but they do make they call the cops on them

563
00:34:17,760 --> 00:34:21,079
and hassle them and stuff like that. And they in

564
00:34:21,159 --> 00:34:25,800
my mind that the airport would have less reason to

565
00:34:25,960 --> 00:34:32,199
do that than a casino would because the airport doesn't

566
00:34:32,320 --> 00:34:39,800
really depend on repeat customers of the same people that

567
00:34:39,880 --> 00:34:44,960
a casino would, because it's, uh, it's just it's a

568
00:34:44,960 --> 00:34:47,880
different animal than a casino. A casino, as you tend

569
00:34:47,920 --> 00:34:51,079
to a lot of locals would go to that one place,

570
00:34:51,639 --> 00:34:54,480
but an airport's it's not that way. You don't really

571
00:34:54,639 --> 00:34:57,800
go hang out at the airport unless you're flying. But

572
00:34:57,880 --> 00:35:02,440
there were people who would get refundable tickets and go

573
00:35:02,519 --> 00:35:06,559
in and run off the play all the persistence games

574
00:35:07,280 --> 00:35:11,559
and then cash in their ticket and don't fly, and

575
00:35:13,079 --> 00:35:16,199
the airport slots are restricting them.

576
00:35:17,119 --> 00:35:20,360
Speaker 3: Interesting, Can I tell you a secret you can't share

577
00:35:20,440 --> 00:35:22,079
with anyone. There's no one listening to.

578
00:35:22,000 --> 00:35:24,639
Speaker 2: This, No, just just the three of us.

579
00:35:25,719 --> 00:35:28,960
Speaker 3: Generally, airport slots are the worst slot machines on Earth.

580
00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:29,440
Speaker 1: To play.

581
00:35:30,039 --> 00:35:34,000
Speaker 3: I mean, they're generally tighter than most, but if the

582
00:35:34,000 --> 00:35:37,719
operator's foolish enough to put pure persistence machines in there,

583
00:35:38,440 --> 00:35:43,079
they deserve it. So my overall tips is, don't play

584
00:35:43,239 --> 00:35:47,920
airport slot machines as a regular thing unless, like Bob said,

585
00:35:48,000 --> 00:35:50,400
you spot pure persistence machines.

586
00:35:50,960 --> 00:35:53,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, I just I can't imagine. It seems to me

587
00:35:53,880 --> 00:35:57,280
that they could really open themselves up for a lawsuit

588
00:35:57,360 --> 00:36:02,199
to have, you know, the police's come, literally, the police

589
00:36:02,360 --> 00:36:05,719
come hassle some guy for playing a slot machine when

590
00:36:05,760 --> 00:36:10,159
the guy actually is flying somewhere or arriving from somewhere.

591
00:36:11,679 --> 00:36:17,039
Speaker 3: Well, the other thing is that with persistence machines, you

592
00:36:17,119 --> 00:36:18,840
got to kind of know your machines a bit to

593
00:36:18,920 --> 00:36:21,280
know what conditions it is, and you've got to be

594
00:36:21,400 --> 00:36:24,559
there when they hit. I don't know, but maybe you do.

595
00:36:24,679 --> 00:36:26,639
But I don't know anyone who goes to the airport

596
00:36:26,719 --> 00:36:30,000
on a very very regular basis unless it's a commuter

597
00:36:30,480 --> 00:36:35,119
flying commuter, So well, I can see why they can

598
00:36:35,159 --> 00:36:37,280
beat him, but there certainly wouldn't be beating them on

599
00:36:37,320 --> 00:36:38,679
a regular basis, would they.

600
00:36:39,599 --> 00:36:42,320
Speaker 1: Well, if they had refundable tickets and they made a

601
00:36:42,320 --> 00:36:45,159
trip every day, to check out all the persistence machine

602
00:36:45,199 --> 00:36:47,639
and then didn't fly out on that ticket, used the

603
00:36:47,679 --> 00:36:51,800
ticket to get through security, and then turned it in

604
00:36:51,840 --> 00:36:56,920
and got reimbursed for it. There were people who did

605
00:36:56,920 --> 00:36:59,159
that on a regular basis. There were slot teams that

606
00:36:59,239 --> 00:37:00,519
did that on a regular basis.

607
00:37:01,440 --> 00:37:03,880
Speaker 3: Bob, I love talking to you because I learned something

608
00:37:03,920 --> 00:37:04,480
every day.

609
00:37:04,840 --> 00:37:09,039
Speaker 2: I mean, but before we before we started, you said

610
00:37:09,039 --> 00:37:13,039
that once you started doing all this data analysis, you

611
00:37:13,159 --> 00:37:17,719
found that you had misjudged players in the past. Can

612
00:37:17,760 --> 00:37:18,760
you talk more about that.

613
00:37:19,719 --> 00:37:23,000
Speaker 3: Well, you know, the one area where we haven't made

614
00:37:23,039 --> 00:37:28,400
a ton of progress, Richard is table games, mainly because

615
00:37:28,480 --> 00:37:31,519
we don't get automatic inputs like we do with slot machines.

616
00:37:31,599 --> 00:37:34,360
I mean, pretty much anyone who plays a slot machine,

617
00:37:34,400 --> 00:37:36,880
whether they're a card member or not, I know the

618
00:37:37,000 --> 00:37:39,880
data because it comes to the slot machine. Well, with

619
00:37:39,960 --> 00:37:42,480
table games we have to rely on things like the

620
00:37:42,519 --> 00:37:44,679
pit boss comes every once in a while and sees

621
00:37:44,800 --> 00:37:49,039
Richard's only putting out black chips or fight dollar chips,

622
00:37:49,039 --> 00:37:51,599
and he writes it down and he goes around, and

623
00:37:51,599 --> 00:37:53,760
of course all the advantage players when they see that

624
00:37:53,800 --> 00:37:55,559
guy come and put out a big bet. As soon

625
00:37:55,599 --> 00:37:58,199
as he's gone they put out smaller bets until the

626
00:37:58,280 --> 00:38:01,599
decks in the condition. Anyway, for lots of reasons, we

627
00:38:01,639 --> 00:38:05,480
didn't have accurate inputs on table games players. I was

628
00:38:05,519 --> 00:38:08,840
working at the El Dorado, which in those days was

629
00:38:08,840 --> 00:38:12,400
a little casino and now is the largest casino group

630
00:38:12,440 --> 00:38:16,239
in the world. But we explored a product called mind Play.

631
00:38:17,000 --> 00:38:20,599
It was a table games tracking that used cameras to

632
00:38:20,719 --> 00:38:23,159
record the chips and stuff. Turned out I had a

633
00:38:23,159 --> 00:38:25,400
lot of flaws and the dealer had to do it

634
00:38:25,440 --> 00:38:28,639
perfectly or it didn't work right, so they abandoned it.

635
00:38:28,719 --> 00:38:32,239
But we learn with that short amount of data that

636
00:38:32,400 --> 00:38:36,119
we were actually throwing out all kinds of people we

637
00:38:36,199 --> 00:38:42,000
thought were advantage players or card counters or deal slicers

638
00:38:42,119 --> 00:38:45,280
or whatever. And when we got that system and we

639
00:38:45,360 --> 00:38:48,960
find out, hey, those are really good players. I'll tell

640
00:38:49,000 --> 00:38:52,679
you one more, seeker, Richard, don't tell anyone this. Of

641
00:38:52,880 --> 00:38:55,760
all the card counters in the world, only a very

642
00:38:55,800 --> 00:38:59,440
small percentage of are good enough to really beat the game.

643
00:39:00,239 --> 00:39:04,679
And I'm gonna ask you if you agree one hundred percent. Yeah,

644
00:39:04,719 --> 00:39:07,440
And we were throwing out all kinds of good players

645
00:39:07,440 --> 00:39:11,800
who actually should have been VIPs because they weren't that good.

646
00:39:12,400 --> 00:39:15,760
But based on their way they were playing, just using

647
00:39:15,840 --> 00:39:19,679
cameras upstairs and having the guy look at it, we went, ah,

648
00:39:19,719 --> 00:39:22,880
that guy's a card counter of throw him out.

649
00:39:22,679 --> 00:39:25,800
Speaker 2: Another mistake that they make, and I'm wondering if they

650
00:39:25,840 --> 00:39:29,400
have changed in this regard. They look at a guy

651
00:39:29,480 --> 00:39:32,679
and they say, oh, we think he's counting cards. You know,

652
00:39:32,719 --> 00:39:35,280
we should throw the guy out, But they don't look

653
00:39:35,320 --> 00:39:37,599
at the rest of his play. And if let's say

654
00:39:37,639 --> 00:39:40,840
you have a guy who who maybe he is a

655
00:39:40,880 --> 00:39:47,400
winning player, you know, on blackjack and has some small edge,

656
00:39:47,920 --> 00:39:51,079
but he also goes and plays slots, and he goes

657
00:39:51,119 --> 00:39:53,960
and plays craps, and he bets in the sports book,

658
00:39:54,639 --> 00:39:57,239
where you know, if you look at all of his play,

659
00:39:57,360 --> 00:40:02,039
he's actually great for the casino. But because maybe they're

660
00:40:02,039 --> 00:40:05,000
worried so much about the blackjack, they throw the guy out.

661
00:40:05,159 --> 00:40:08,599
And I'm wondering if they've started looking at the totality

662
00:40:08,639 --> 00:40:10,840
of people's play in that regard.

663
00:40:11,639 --> 00:40:14,440
Speaker 3: Hey, Richard, you should go be a salesman for QCI

664
00:40:14,719 --> 00:40:17,199
or Gaming Analytics or one of those things, because that's

665
00:40:17,199 --> 00:40:19,800
exactly what they claim. I want to look at the

666
00:40:19,840 --> 00:40:23,199
full picture of a player. You know, he may be

667
00:40:23,400 --> 00:40:25,760
wonderful for all kinds of other reasons.

668
00:40:26,360 --> 00:40:29,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, and his wife might be playing slots, you.

669
00:40:29,239 --> 00:40:32,679
Speaker 3: Know, amen, look at total value, his addresses, where he

670
00:40:32,719 --> 00:40:35,559
comes from, drive time, all these things we never used

671
00:40:35,599 --> 00:40:37,760
to consider. Now we can put in for a total

672
00:40:37,840 --> 00:40:43,159
mix of players. You know, and you're very right about spouses.

673
00:40:43,840 --> 00:40:48,480
I remember we had one player, huge player, an old

674
00:40:48,519 --> 00:40:52,000
associate actually was a Wall Street guy with all kinds

675
00:40:52,039 --> 00:40:57,480
of deep pockets, only played craps. But his girlfriend hammered

676
00:40:57,519 --> 00:41:00,679
the hundred dollars machines, and so he got to look

677
00:41:00,719 --> 00:41:03,880
at a place like her private margin far exceeded anything

678
00:41:03,920 --> 00:41:08,960
he did. So, yes, you're absolutely right. With advanced data analytics,

679
00:41:08,960 --> 00:41:12,159
you can look at the total player. And again I

680
00:41:12,280 --> 00:41:17,320
mentioned the breakdowns between that. Another big seeker in our industry.

681
00:41:17,360 --> 00:41:20,039
You've heard of the eighty twenty rule, where twenty percent

682
00:41:20,079 --> 00:41:23,480
of your players produced eighty percent of your revenue. Was wrong.

683
00:41:24,119 --> 00:41:26,840
What it really is is more like the ninety five

684
00:41:27,599 --> 00:41:31,960
five percent rule, meaning five percent of your customers generate

685
00:41:32,000 --> 00:41:35,159
twenty percent, I mean eighty percent or more of your revenue.

686
00:41:36,000 --> 00:41:39,559
It's amazing. So you really want to track and accurately

687
00:41:40,119 --> 00:41:43,840
understand those players and these new programs allow you to

688
00:41:43,880 --> 00:41:48,760
do that. The one thing I just urge. I just

689
00:41:48,800 --> 00:41:52,119
wrote a little piece for CDC called ten Wishes for

690
00:41:52,199 --> 00:41:56,280
the New Year, and the first one was says, visit

691
00:41:56,320 --> 00:42:00,599
the competition, Visit the competition, visit the competition. But down

692
00:42:00,719 --> 00:42:04,000
on the list, I said, you know, use some of

693
00:42:04,039 --> 00:42:07,159
these new tools. The other thing I'd put was one,

694
00:42:07,400 --> 00:42:10,800
update your software. I can't tell you how many people

695
00:42:11,199 --> 00:42:14,760
are using like IGT version five when the rest of

696
00:42:14,800 --> 00:42:18,840
the world's on version ninety seven eight and they're not

697
00:42:18,960 --> 00:42:23,079
updating their software. So our industry still has a problem.

698
00:42:23,119 --> 00:42:27,519
There grit tools out there today, but people aren't necessarily

699
00:42:27,519 --> 00:42:32,079
investing in the training to use them properly, to take

700
00:42:32,119 --> 00:42:36,760
advantage of what you can learn for you guys like

701
00:42:36,840 --> 00:42:39,880
that example, Bob just gave him a minute ago with the

702
00:42:39,880 --> 00:42:42,280
airport that I had no idea about that because I

703
00:42:42,320 --> 00:42:46,440
didn't think about refundable tickets. There's still ways to get

704
00:42:46,480 --> 00:42:48,480
around it. I got to tell you a story about

705
00:42:48,480 --> 00:42:52,360
Bob Richard. I'm working in Reno at a place called FitzGeralds,

706
00:42:53,239 --> 00:42:56,920
and I've known Bob because he did some consulting with us.

707
00:42:56,960 --> 00:42:59,400
A very good video poker player and everything else, and

708
00:43:00,599 --> 00:43:03,440
based on his help. I tried to make sure I

709
00:43:03,519 --> 00:43:06,119
was in marketing. Then I traded to make sure that

710
00:43:06,199 --> 00:43:12,159
our rewards programs accurately affect reflected the value of the players.

711
00:43:12,760 --> 00:43:15,679
So Bob comes in with his I believe it's his

712
00:43:15,760 --> 00:43:17,559
ex wife at the time, and.

713
00:43:19,079 --> 00:43:20,599
Speaker 1: At the time she was my wife.

714
00:43:21,000 --> 00:43:23,519
Speaker 3: She was my wife. She's his ex wife now. And

715
00:43:24,840 --> 00:43:28,079
I'm going, well, how come you here visiting. I didn't

716
00:43:28,519 --> 00:43:31,480
especially our property, We didn't have particularly lose poker. But

717
00:43:31,519 --> 00:43:35,199
he said, well, the Women's Bowling Congress is in town,

718
00:43:35,639 --> 00:43:37,360
and he went, what the hell does that have to

719
00:43:37,360 --> 00:43:40,400
do with anything? He said, well, I got my wife

720
00:43:40,440 --> 00:43:42,960
to join and found out everybody in town was given

721
00:43:43,079 --> 00:43:48,079
huge bonuses and points, rewards, things and everything if you're

722
00:43:48,079 --> 00:43:50,719
a baller. So she joined and we went out and

723
00:43:51,000 --> 00:43:54,239
had quite a profitable weekend. I never thought of that,

724
00:43:54,559 --> 00:43:57,440
you know. So those are the kinds of things that

725
00:43:57,559 --> 00:44:00,320
I think you'll continue as advantage players to have it,

726
00:44:00,320 --> 00:44:04,079
because one the operators who have the kinds of tools

727
00:44:04,320 --> 00:44:06,719
I have now that would have spotted that they didn't

728
00:44:06,719 --> 00:44:09,880
exist back then, and then an awful lot of operators

729
00:44:09,920 --> 00:44:12,760
are not using these tools. One of my suggestions was,

730
00:44:13,199 --> 00:44:16,840
if you haven't done it already. Please explore these AI

731
00:44:17,039 --> 00:44:22,000
tools in your marketing, in your slot selection committees, hopefully

732
00:44:22,000 --> 00:44:25,199
someday in table games Richard as well, or.

733
00:44:25,119 --> 00:44:28,719
Speaker 2: Hopefully not, depending on which side of the fence you yeah, yes.

734
00:44:28,880 --> 00:44:31,480
Speaker 3: Well, I also talk about an area that's really got

735
00:44:31,519 --> 00:44:34,880
a lot of people buying these programs called churn. That's

736
00:44:34,920 --> 00:44:38,039
a marketing term. And let's say, you know, I'm at

737
00:44:38,039 --> 00:44:40,639
a casino a and Richard came in every two weeks

738
00:44:40,719 --> 00:44:45,599
or at least every Thursday, and spend his budget. Maybe

739
00:44:45,639 --> 00:44:49,880
his spend was seventy five dollars every trip, and he

740
00:44:50,000 --> 00:44:52,840
stayed there about two and a half hours. Well, with

741
00:44:52,920 --> 00:44:57,559
these programs, we can see one if you change that

742
00:44:57,559 --> 00:44:59,880
that pattern, why and what do we need to do?

743
00:45:00,559 --> 00:45:03,960
But secondly, with these really advanced programs, and I know

744
00:45:04,039 --> 00:45:07,599
Acres is one of them, we could look at your

745
00:45:07,639 --> 00:45:10,199
play Richard and went, you know, he's here for two

746
00:45:10,239 --> 00:45:12,480
and a half hours, but he's only been here half

747
00:45:12,519 --> 00:45:15,760
an hour and these machines are wiping him out, and

748
00:45:16,440 --> 00:45:19,519
we could reward you money. Now, where do I get

749
00:45:19,559 --> 00:45:22,280
the money to do that? Well, I don't give it

750
00:45:22,320 --> 00:45:24,639
to Bob who's playing in other machines. Over there and

751
00:45:24,679 --> 00:45:29,320
he's just won, you know, two royal flushes. He's happy,

752
00:45:29,400 --> 00:45:32,440
he's got eight thousand ahead on the machine. I don't

753
00:45:32,440 --> 00:45:36,199
need to feed him any instant bonuses. He's doing just

754
00:45:36,360 --> 00:45:40,199
fine and very happy because machines are paying off for him.

755
00:45:40,800 --> 00:45:45,039
So we can tailor offer specifically that and even do

756
00:45:45,159 --> 00:45:49,800
it in the middle of your session. That's what Acres stimulates.

757
00:45:49,840 --> 00:45:52,719
But I think the other folks will follow their lead

758
00:45:52,800 --> 00:45:55,880
in the near future and try to enhance your things.

759
00:45:55,920 --> 00:45:59,440
So if we see your budgets going out too fast

760
00:45:59,199 --> 00:46:03,119
or items like that, and even they talk about some

761
00:46:03,159 --> 00:46:06,440
of their materials, maybe we find out for some strange

762
00:46:06,519 --> 00:46:13,159
reason unbelievable to me, you're a Las Vegas Raiders fan. Well,

763
00:46:13,199 --> 00:46:16,880
when they score a touchdown in real time, we can say, hey, Richard,

764
00:46:16,880 --> 00:46:19,679
your team just scored a touchdown. Here's a bonus, and

765
00:46:19,760 --> 00:46:23,960
that'll make you feel very personal connection to the machine. Now,

766
00:46:24,000 --> 00:46:26,840
sadly for you, they don't score very many touchdowns, so

767
00:46:27,480 --> 00:46:28,360
it won't get much.

768
00:46:28,440 --> 00:46:31,760
Speaker 2: But right, yeah, I'll get the bonus on the slot machine.

769
00:46:31,760 --> 00:46:33,360
But if I go over to bet them in the

770
00:46:33,400 --> 00:46:37,320
sports book, they'll say, sorry, you can bet ten dollars.

771
00:46:37,880 --> 00:46:40,239
Speaker 3: Well, that's a whole new world the sports book. But

772
00:46:40,639 --> 00:46:42,719
one thing about that I mentioned. We have good data

773
00:46:42,719 --> 00:46:46,159
about slot machines. We got really great data about sports betting.

774
00:46:46,280 --> 00:46:49,519
So that's an area where AI will really really be

775
00:46:49,679 --> 00:46:53,400
valuable in the future because everything's online or has the

776
00:46:53,559 --> 00:46:58,519
data computerized, So lots of opportunities there now for the

777
00:46:58,559 --> 00:47:02,639
game designers, they're really love AI because they can look

778
00:47:02,639 --> 00:47:05,679
at all kinds of elements. What bonus did the player

779
00:47:05,880 --> 00:47:08,519
like the most when he got this bonus? Did he

780
00:47:08,559 --> 00:47:11,519
play more, play less? Did he leave when he got that?

781
00:47:12,000 --> 00:47:15,079
All kinds of things we couldn't look at before we'll

782
00:47:15,119 --> 00:47:17,159
be able to look at in the future, and the

783
00:47:17,159 --> 00:47:19,360
manufacturers will be able to look at that data too

784
00:47:19,480 --> 00:47:20,880
if it's on a shared link.

785
00:47:21,760 --> 00:47:24,519
Speaker 1: I would think sports books have been using AI for

786
00:47:24,599 --> 00:47:27,960
a while sports.

787
00:47:26,920 --> 00:47:31,119
Speaker 3: Because, like I say, everything's online and you know their

788
00:47:31,679 --> 00:47:33,880
purpose is by the way, I don't know if you've

789
00:47:33,920 --> 00:47:37,679
seen the numbers, but it's staggering how much is being wagered.

790
00:47:39,840 --> 00:47:45,960
Atlantic City on their combination of sports betting and online

791
00:47:46,000 --> 00:47:50,239
betting exceeds their slot play. It's just phenomenal. And they've

792
00:47:50,239 --> 00:47:53,559
only been in that business three four five years and

793
00:47:53,679 --> 00:47:56,159
already it's that big and growing like a weed. So

794
00:47:56,960 --> 00:48:01,079
I don't think it's hurting casino ricks and mortars, but

795
00:48:01,159 --> 00:48:05,039
it's a whole new audience who's very active in gambling

796
00:48:05,079 --> 00:48:08,559
a lot. But I think it's good because we'll be

797
00:48:08,599 --> 00:48:14,719
able to spot quickly illegitimate bets or money swinging in

798
00:48:14,960 --> 00:48:17,960
bizarre ways that if it was all just with the

799
00:48:17,960 --> 00:48:20,480
bookie in the corner or the guy in the back alley,

800
00:48:20,480 --> 00:48:22,760
you wouldn't spot those patterns, But now you can.

801
00:48:23,920 --> 00:48:27,679
Speaker 1: How do you see AI different in five years than

802
00:48:27,719 --> 00:48:28,360
it is today.

803
00:48:29,519 --> 00:48:33,000
Speaker 3: I think it'll be adoption. I think, you know, I

804
00:48:33,079 --> 00:48:37,000
always consider myself an early adopter in the industry, and

805
00:48:37,079 --> 00:48:40,199
I didn't deserve that title. It's just because everybody else

806
00:48:40,239 --> 00:48:41,840
around me was a slow adopter.

807
00:48:43,159 --> 00:48:43,360
Speaker 1: You know.

808
00:48:43,400 --> 00:48:45,840
Speaker 3: It's the old story. You don't have to outrun the bear,

809
00:48:46,039 --> 00:48:48,880
you just have to outrun the guy the slowest person

810
00:48:49,639 --> 00:48:53,920
in the group. And I think as time goes by,

811
00:48:54,199 --> 00:48:57,079
you'll find more and more people seeing the benefits of

812
00:48:57,159 --> 00:49:02,360
good analytics and good AI, implementing it in their products,

813
00:49:02,800 --> 00:49:08,400
their marketing schemes, their rewards program and so on. Just

814
00:49:08,480 --> 00:49:12,280
another simple thing at the company I do a little

815
00:49:12,320 --> 00:49:16,400
consultantly called QCI. You guys, ever heard of a CEO

816
00:49:16,440 --> 00:49:21,440
at companies chief operating officer? Yeah, sure, they're chief operating officer.

817
00:49:21,480 --> 00:49:25,199
There is a computer program. It's got someone's name. I

818
00:49:25,239 --> 00:49:29,119
forget what it is. And if you think about the

819
00:49:29,280 --> 00:49:33,960
Peter principle in our industry, like a QCI, that's a

820
00:49:34,000 --> 00:49:39,480
company that really hires the co CEOs or the co founders.

821
00:49:39,559 --> 00:49:45,760
One guy's an analytical expert in databases and graphical designs

822
00:49:45,840 --> 00:49:49,800
and floor mapping. He's wonderful. The other co founder is

823
00:49:49,840 --> 00:49:54,119
a PhD in mathematics. They're just really good guys. So

824
00:49:54,239 --> 00:49:56,559
you promote those guys to the CEO and they're spending

825
00:49:56,639 --> 00:50:00,880
half their time file and HR reports, answering email wondering

826
00:50:00,960 --> 00:50:04,960
why one of the employees ran off with another employee,

827
00:50:05,400 --> 00:50:09,000
or did they do their requisite training and all this stuff,

828
00:50:09,039 --> 00:50:13,159
and which emails should go out? Who did you respond to?

829
00:50:14,119 --> 00:50:16,960
We checked our supply change. Those are not the skills

830
00:50:16,960 --> 00:50:20,960
of those two guys. So they found GOSH. I wish

831
00:50:21,000 --> 00:50:22,880
I could remember the name they call it. They love it,

832
00:50:23,199 --> 00:50:26,760
but it does all the mundane things like schedule times

833
00:50:26,760 --> 00:50:30,159
for meetings, do all this stuff, knows who's where, who's traveling,

834
00:50:30,719 --> 00:50:33,679
all those kinds of mundane things is being done now

835
00:50:33,719 --> 00:50:36,480
by a computer at that firm, not by a human,

836
00:50:37,440 --> 00:50:42,159
because those are skills better handled by a machine than

837
00:50:42,840 --> 00:50:45,119
I think. You'll see more and more and more of that,

838
00:50:45,280 --> 00:50:49,079
you guys, simple example I can think of Bob Is.

839
00:50:49,840 --> 00:50:52,719
I loved it when cars came out with cruise control

840
00:50:53,360 --> 00:50:55,719
and what that meant, you push a little button, you

841
00:50:55,800 --> 00:50:58,800
set the speed, and now you don't have to keep

842
00:50:58,840 --> 00:51:02,079
your foot, especially on that drive between Ringo and Vegas.

843
00:51:02,360 --> 00:51:06,480
It'll just go the speed. You said of that, Well,

844
00:51:06,519 --> 00:51:10,079
then along came adaptive cruise control use an AI, and

845
00:51:10,159 --> 00:51:12,760
what that did is it had a little sensor in

846
00:51:12,800 --> 00:51:16,760
the front or camera and same exact thing. But if

847
00:51:16,760 --> 00:51:19,360
all of a sudden, now there's a car doing fifty

848
00:51:19,440 --> 00:51:22,360
five in front of you and your cruise control set

849
00:51:22,400 --> 00:51:26,159
the seventy, you won't smash into the back end of

850
00:51:26,159 --> 00:51:29,239
the car. Whereas with the old cruise control it was wonderful,

851
00:51:29,320 --> 00:51:31,360
but you would smash into the back end of the

852
00:51:31,400 --> 00:51:35,519
car if you weren't paying attention. So adapted was really cool.

853
00:51:35,559 --> 00:51:39,199
It would slow down. Then I bought a Tesla, and

854
00:51:39,280 --> 00:51:43,039
a Tesla first part of it was it had adaptive

855
00:51:43,079 --> 00:51:46,760
cruise control. But it also had cameras on all four

856
00:51:46,840 --> 00:51:50,280
sides and everything. And so now it goes and it

857
00:51:50,360 --> 00:51:53,000
goes right up the car, and it keeps the constant

858
00:51:53,039 --> 00:51:55,719
speed no matter what it is. But it also because

859
00:51:55,760 --> 00:51:59,760
of the cameras, it'll go around that car if there's

860
00:52:00,519 --> 00:52:03,639
that other lane. And now I got the latest free

861
00:52:03,760 --> 00:52:06,800
version of a thing called full self driving. And now

862
00:52:06,840 --> 00:52:09,480
I just put in where I want to go, and

863
00:52:09,519 --> 00:52:12,920
I swear to God it works perfectly. The car will

864
00:52:13,000 --> 00:52:16,400
just go there by itself. It'll stop, it'll signal, it'll

865
00:52:16,480 --> 00:52:19,679
stop at the red lights. It makes turns, does everything,

866
00:52:20,199 --> 00:52:21,920
and I don't have to do a thing. Now I

867
00:52:21,960 --> 00:52:25,280
hold on the wheel because my old fashioned mind doesn't

868
00:52:25,320 --> 00:52:28,440
totally trust it, but I barely have to touch it.

869
00:52:29,239 --> 00:52:32,159
These things just keep getting better and better and better.

870
00:52:32,639 --> 00:52:37,400
And Amazon keeps recommending books I like to read, So

871
00:52:37,920 --> 00:52:40,440
getting better and better and better every day.

872
00:52:41,440 --> 00:52:44,760
Speaker 1: As always, Buddy, it's a pleasure to have you on

873
00:52:44,800 --> 00:52:49,920
the show. Thank you. I learned a lot today. You

874
00:52:50,039 --> 00:52:53,599
accuse me of teaching you things. I definitely accuse you

875
00:52:53,639 --> 00:52:55,920
of teaching me things.

876
00:52:56,239 --> 00:52:58,480
Speaker 3: I've got to buy refundable tickets from now on.

877
00:53:00,119 --> 00:53:03,039
Speaker 1: Yeah, but also know that the they're looking out for

878
00:53:03,079 --> 00:53:07,599
you if you're if you're playing Buffalo Ascension too much,

879
00:53:08,719 --> 00:53:12,039
they will they will do things.

880
00:53:13,159 --> 00:53:15,360
Speaker 3: Richard don't tell me, but he just mentioned one of

881
00:53:15,360 --> 00:53:16,480
those games on that list.

882
00:53:16,519 --> 00:53:19,519
Speaker 2: I told you, right, Yeah, yeah, I think the I

883
00:53:19,559 --> 00:53:22,039
think the cat is out of the bag on that one.

884
00:53:22,840 --> 00:53:25,599
Speaker 3: Yeah, among those who know, and they're not hard to spot,

885
00:53:25,719 --> 00:53:28,559
and in fact, I recommend regular players look for that.

886
00:53:28,639 --> 00:53:31,400
Why why should they not do them? But but just

887
00:53:31,559 --> 00:53:34,599
like people not using video poker for winners or some

888
00:53:34,679 --> 00:53:37,480
of the great tools out there, thank god for US

889
00:53:37,559 --> 00:53:40,280
operators and for you advantage players, there's a bunch of

890
00:53:40,400 --> 00:53:44,159
players out there who oblivious and I can't understand why

891
00:53:44,159 --> 00:53:47,760
anybody plays six or five Blackjacker triple lot Roulette, but

892
00:53:48,039 --> 00:53:50,599
there's hundreds of people who do. Yeah.

893
00:53:51,440 --> 00:53:56,800
Speaker 1: All right. So at the end of our show, sometimes

894
00:53:56,880 --> 00:54:00,800
Richard and I would have a recommended section, and today

895
00:54:00,960 --> 00:54:06,360
I am going to talk about a recommended a book

896
00:54:07,400 --> 00:54:13,119
called Blood Game by Jeff Boats. For some reason, Jeff

897
00:54:13,159 --> 00:54:17,199
spells his first name j Effe. I don't know why,

898
00:54:17,800 --> 00:54:19,679
but I asked him how to pronounce it, and he goes,

899
00:54:19,719 --> 00:54:23,920
it's Jeff. So I should have known. I suppose, but anyway.

900
00:54:24,000 --> 00:54:28,519
Blood Game is an action packed thriller involving Mid Eastern

901
00:54:28,639 --> 00:54:33,159
terrorists set at an Eastern European poker tournament. The protagonist,

902
00:54:33,239 --> 00:54:37,400
doctor Thomas Vale, is a highly functioning individual with Ashberger

903
00:54:37,559 --> 00:54:42,519
syndrome somewhat similar to rain Man, and he's on the

904
00:54:42,559 --> 00:54:45,079
fringes of the CIA, but not fully part of it.

905
00:54:46,119 --> 00:54:48,440
The book is the first of a series of adventures

906
00:54:48,480 --> 00:54:52,079
that involve this character. I enjoy the thriller genre and

907
00:54:52,119 --> 00:54:55,519
this book will definitely fit right in and the fact

908
00:54:55,519 --> 00:54:57,840
that it's said at poker tournament will make it adventest

909
00:54:57,960 --> 00:55:03,800
to many of our interest many of our listeners. Richard

910
00:55:03,880 --> 00:55:07,840
will provide a link to that game at at the

911
00:55:07,920 --> 00:55:12,559
end of the show. Its published date is February fourth

912
00:55:12,599 --> 00:55:17,679
of twenty twenty five, so you can't get it quite yet,

913
00:55:17,760 --> 00:55:18,920
but it's coming up soon.

914
00:55:19,840 --> 00:55:24,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, I you know, after spending a lot of time

915
00:55:24,280 --> 00:55:31,880
in Hollywood and reading a lot of really terrible scripts.

916
00:55:31,920 --> 00:55:33,880
You know, when I was younger, I felt like if

917
00:55:33,920 --> 00:55:36,239
I started a book, I had to finish it, and

918
00:55:36,239 --> 00:55:39,800
and and then I got to the point where I realized, boy,

919
00:55:39,920 --> 00:55:41,679
is that a waste of time? If I don't like it?

920
00:55:41,679 --> 00:55:44,760
I'm dropping it, you know, after ten pages or whatever.

921
00:55:45,760 --> 00:55:49,519
So I when Jeff sent the book, you know, I

922
00:55:49,679 --> 00:55:53,199
was trepidacious because I didn't want to have to tell

923
00:55:53,280 --> 00:55:56,400
him like, you know, sorry, I I thought it was terrible.

924
00:55:56,719 --> 00:56:00,960
But I read it in two days. I mean, like you, Bob,

925
00:56:01,079 --> 00:56:04,880
I'm a fan of these kind of thrillers, you know,

926
00:56:07,800 --> 00:56:12,760
Vince Flynn or Tom Clancy or these type of books.

927
00:56:12,800 --> 00:56:18,800
And you throw in the poker aspect. Yeah, I'm a

928
00:56:18,840 --> 00:56:22,239
sucker for that book. But yeah, held my interest right

929
00:56:22,280 --> 00:56:24,480
from the beginning. As I say, I finished it in

930
00:56:24,519 --> 00:56:28,559
two days. So we wanted to give a shout out

931
00:56:28,599 --> 00:56:30,880
to Jeff since he's a fan of the show and

932
00:56:32,280 --> 00:56:33,760
he wrote a good first book.

933
00:56:34,159 --> 00:56:37,440
Speaker 3: So there you go. Hey, I got a recommendation guy.

934
00:56:37,559 --> 00:56:38,000
Speaker 1: Oh good.

935
00:56:39,159 --> 00:56:42,599
Speaker 3: It's a game you can't play until summer unless you

936
00:56:42,719 --> 00:56:45,639
live in Indian Land or a few jurisdictions. In fact,

937
00:56:45,719 --> 00:56:48,679
it's going to be legal in Louisiana any day now.

938
00:56:49,239 --> 00:56:52,519
But it's been out for a while. Was released in

939
00:56:52,559 --> 00:56:55,760
twenty twenty one. I don't know if you've heard of it, Bob,

940
00:56:56,079 --> 00:56:59,599
but it's called Devil's Locke. It's by a company called

941
00:56:59,639 --> 00:57:04,039
Blue and it's a slot machine or what it's a

942
00:57:04,119 --> 00:57:09,159
slot machine and it has a small perceived persistence bonus.

943
00:57:09,679 --> 00:57:12,920
But this machine came out from a very small manufacturer

944
00:57:12,960 --> 00:57:17,960
named Blueberry, Canadian company based in Quebec. They've got they

945
00:57:18,079 --> 00:57:22,480
got a brand new CEO and he hired some really

946
00:57:22,519 --> 00:57:26,800
great people, hired some good sales people and some good

947
00:57:26,880 --> 00:57:31,800
product developers. And this game came out and even though

948
00:57:31,840 --> 00:57:35,000
it wasn't in Nevada, in all the national polls, had

949
00:57:35,039 --> 00:57:38,880
shot up to number one. That's not unusual in one

950
00:57:39,039 --> 00:57:42,519
first month when a game comes out, but this thing

951
00:57:42,679 --> 00:57:45,800
stayed at number one for almost a year, almost more

952
00:57:45,840 --> 00:57:49,079
than a year. It's really a fun game to play.

953
00:57:49,559 --> 00:57:52,800
You can go on to any of those influencers and

954
00:57:52,880 --> 00:57:56,639
watch them play this game. It's up for approvals in

955
00:57:56,679 --> 00:58:01,480
both New Jersey and Nevada in this coming summer two

956
00:58:01,559 --> 00:58:04,840
thousand and five, so I think you'll find all the

957
00:58:04,880 --> 00:58:07,760
nevad operators I talked about are just dying to get

958
00:58:07,760 --> 00:58:10,039
this on their floor, but they can't because it's not

959
00:58:10,199 --> 00:58:13,559
licensed yet, but it will be this summer. You can

960
00:58:13,599 --> 00:58:15,320
go to California and play it all.

961
00:58:15,159 --> 00:58:18,039
Speaker 2: Over the Is it a persistence machine.

962
00:58:18,119 --> 00:58:22,199
Speaker 3: It's got a perceived persistence element in it's not true persistent,

963
00:58:22,760 --> 00:58:27,719
but it's a lot of fun. Instead of using the

964
00:58:27,800 --> 00:58:30,480
eight eight eight, like every Asian game in the world,

965
00:58:31,239 --> 00:58:33,840
or back in my day the seven number, it's based

966
00:58:33,840 --> 00:58:36,480
on sixty six. They didn't want to go to six

967
00:58:36,599 --> 00:58:40,119
sixty six because of the anti Christ, but six ' six.

968
00:58:40,519 --> 00:58:45,559
It's a great game. You know, a lot of people

969
00:58:45,639 --> 00:58:51,119
love it. It uses fifteen independent reels, a center pig

970
00:58:51,239 --> 00:58:54,920
or piggybank figure in the excuse me, devil figure in

971
00:58:55,000 --> 00:58:58,719
the center where because it's a three by five, the

972
00:58:58,800 --> 00:59:01,880
triggers all kinds of bone. It's a game I think

973
00:59:02,239 --> 00:59:04,719
a lot of people will like, but it's not a

974
00:59:04,719 --> 00:59:05,519
true persistence.

975
00:59:05,599 --> 00:59:08,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, I have to tell you a secret, buddy, But

976
00:59:09,159 --> 00:59:15,639
our listeners they don't play slop machines for fun, So I.

977
00:59:15,679 --> 00:59:18,960
Speaker 3: Know I'm just mentioning this one because they'll notice an

978
00:59:19,079 --> 00:59:22,719
awful lot of players playing. I'll give you a tip

979
00:59:22,840 --> 00:59:27,119
that might mislead some of your players at first. A

980
00:59:27,119 --> 00:59:31,880
lot of these persistence bonuses a trigger on the pay line.

981
00:59:31,920 --> 00:59:35,239
This company took those and put them up above the

982
00:59:35,280 --> 00:59:38,480
real set. And it's two pigs that look like piggy banks.

983
00:59:39,760 --> 00:59:43,559
When they grow, they grow grow, grow, and then they explode,

984
00:59:43,679 --> 00:59:48,639
and when they explode, you just about can't lose again.

985
00:59:48,760 --> 00:59:52,280
Don't tell anybody this, but it's perceived persistence because the

986
00:59:52,320 --> 00:59:56,199
size of the pig makes no difference, so they might

987
00:59:56,239 --> 00:59:58,800
get mislad a little bit. They're kind of like the

988
00:59:58,880 --> 01:00:02,679
Firecracker game food a lot when they play that one.

989
01:00:02,760 --> 01:00:05,440
Speaker 2: So that's good for our listeners to know to avoid

990
01:00:05,480 --> 01:00:06,719
this machine.

991
01:00:06,960 --> 01:00:09,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a great invariant. If they want to be entertained,

992
01:00:10,079 --> 01:00:12,760
they'll love it, you know, but it is not two percent.

993
01:00:12,920 --> 01:00:19,039
Speaker 1: Yeah, very good, Thanks again, buddy, You're welcome anytime. Good

994
01:00:19,039 --> 01:00:20,800
talking to you. Bye bye.

995
01:00:21,039 --> 01:00:21,360
Speaker 3: Wow.

996
01:00:21,519 --> 01:00:23,840
Speaker 2: We got to the end of the show and I

997
01:00:24,000 --> 01:00:26,920
was editing it and realized that it had been so

998
01:00:27,159 --> 01:00:31,760
long that Bob forgot to end the show. So I

999
01:00:31,760 --> 01:00:34,599
guess I will have to do it. Go out and

1000
01:00:34,639 --> 01:00:38,000
hit lots of royal flushes everybody. Good day.