1 00:00:01,120 --> 00:00:04,160 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Mind Over Murder podcast. 2 00:00:06,000 --> 00:00:09,679 Speaker 2: My name is Bill Thomas. I'm a writer, consulting, producer, 3 00:00:09,720 --> 00:00:12,839 and now podcaster. I am now trying to use my 4 00:00:12,919 --> 00:00:15,800 experience as the brother of a murder victim to help 5 00:00:15,839 --> 00:00:18,600 other victims of violent crime. I'm working on a book 6 00:00:18,679 --> 00:00:21,440 on the unsolved Colonial Parkway murders and I'm the co 7 00:00:21,519 --> 00:00:24,760 administrator of the Colonial Parkway Murders Facebook group together with 8 00:00:24,839 --> 00:00:25,519 Kristin Dilly. 9 00:00:26,079 --> 00:00:27,320 Speaker 1: My name is Kristin Dilly. 10 00:00:27,519 --> 00:00:31,199 Speaker 3: I'm a writer, a researcher, a teacher, and a victim's advocate, 11 00:00:31,359 --> 00:00:34,719 as well as the social media manager and co administrator 12 00:00:34,799 --> 00:00:37,799 for the Colonial Parkway Murders Facebook page with my partner 13 00:00:37,840 --> 00:00:39,079 in crime, Bill Thomas. 14 00:00:40,799 --> 00:00:43,759 Speaker 4: Welcome to Mind Ever Murder. I'm Kristin Dilly. 15 00:00:43,600 --> 00:00:46,039 Speaker 2: I'm Bill Thomas, and we are. 16 00:00:46,320 --> 00:00:49,119 Speaker 4: Back from crime Come Denver. 17 00:00:49,640 --> 00:00:52,479 Speaker 5: It was a heck of a time and we are 18 00:00:52,560 --> 00:00:56,719 happy to announce there were no delayed flights, no food poisoning, 19 00:00:57,039 --> 00:01:01,079 no lost banners, and nothing else we'd or remotely strange happened. 20 00:01:01,119 --> 00:01:03,079 So we're going to call that a win right off 21 00:01:03,119 --> 00:01:03,479 the bat. 22 00:01:04,879 --> 00:01:09,319 Speaker 2: Yeah, it went great. It was fantastic. I don't think 23 00:01:09,400 --> 00:01:10,239 anything went wrong. 24 00:01:10,439 --> 00:01:10,879 Speaker 4: It was. 25 00:01:11,040 --> 00:01:13,200 Speaker 5: It was definitely in a place that I had never 26 00:01:13,239 --> 00:01:14,159 been to before. 27 00:01:14,239 --> 00:01:16,400 Speaker 4: And Yeah, I ended up sitting next. 28 00:01:16,280 --> 00:01:18,920 Speaker 5: To a lovely woman on the plane who was also 29 00:01:18,959 --> 00:01:20,760 going to crime Con and it was very nice to 30 00:01:20,799 --> 00:01:23,000 have a conversation with her, and so we talked for 31 00:01:23,079 --> 00:01:26,040 like the whole three hour flight to Denver. But as 32 00:01:26,079 --> 00:01:28,519 the plane is starting to dip lower and lower, we're like, 33 00:01:28,680 --> 00:01:31,480 let's look out the window, and we're both expecting to 34 00:01:31,560 --> 00:01:34,519 see mountains, because I think both of us thought that Denver. 35 00:01:34,319 --> 00:01:36,319 Speaker 4: Was in the Rockies, and we're looking. 36 00:01:36,120 --> 00:01:39,200 Speaker 5: Like, did the pilot put it into the GPS throng? 37 00:01:39,239 --> 00:01:43,439 This looks like Kansas. It does not look like Denver. 38 00:01:43,760 --> 00:01:46,920 And the whole time we're like descending toward the airport, 39 00:01:46,959 --> 00:01:49,519 I'm like, where's the mountains? I thought Denver was in 40 00:01:49,599 --> 00:01:52,760 the mountains. Apparently, no, Denver is not in the mountains. 41 00:01:52,840 --> 00:01:55,760 And I just didn't know that, but I think, in 42 00:01:55,799 --> 00:01:58,359 my defense, not a lot of other people did either. 43 00:02:00,120 --> 00:02:03,439 Speaker 2: Was surprise too. I've only been to Colorado one other time, 44 00:02:04,000 --> 00:02:05,760 and now that I think about it was a long 45 00:02:05,799 --> 00:02:07,840 time ago. I think we must have been in Boulder, 46 00:02:07,840 --> 00:02:12,000 because there were mountains Denver on the other hand, it's 47 00:02:12,719 --> 00:02:15,280 flat as near as I can tell. I could do 48 00:02:15,319 --> 00:02:17,599 some more research on this if it's important. I think 49 00:02:17,599 --> 00:02:20,919 we're looking at a plateau here because they talk about 50 00:02:20,960 --> 00:02:26,039 the mile High city, but it is flat and it 51 00:02:26,080 --> 00:02:29,120 looks like the prairie. And that area out near the 52 00:02:29,159 --> 00:02:33,319 airport where we were, where our hotel was, and crime Con, 53 00:02:33,360 --> 00:02:36,560 which is at an adjoining hotel, it was just weird. 54 00:02:36,919 --> 00:02:40,960 There was a tremendous as far as the eye can see, 55 00:02:41,080 --> 00:02:46,199 kind of grassland, prairie, very flat. There's a lot of 56 00:02:46,280 --> 00:02:50,199 growth going on. They're building and building new condos and 57 00:02:50,240 --> 00:02:55,439 new houses and new warehouses. Everything's really spread out. It 58 00:02:55,479 --> 00:02:59,039 was exceptionally dry and hot from my point of view. 59 00:03:00,159 --> 00:03:05,439 Great time. It's funny. Even the hotel refers to the Rockies, 60 00:03:05,639 --> 00:03:08,759 and I couldn't see the Rocky Mountains to save my life. 61 00:03:09,360 --> 00:03:09,919 Speaker 4: Yeah. 62 00:03:09,960 --> 00:03:12,439 Speaker 5: All of the branding that they did for crime Con 63 00:03:13,000 --> 00:03:16,039 and most of the times when you see Denver, they 64 00:03:16,120 --> 00:03:17,840 set it with the mountain backdrop. 65 00:03:18,039 --> 00:03:18,159 Speaker 2: Yea. 66 00:03:18,319 --> 00:03:20,919 Speaker 5: Even the baseball team is called the Rockies, and so 67 00:03:21,000 --> 00:03:22,400 I was like, where are the mountains? 68 00:03:22,479 --> 00:03:25,479 Speaker 2: No, there are no mountains, not near Denver. 69 00:03:26,360 --> 00:03:26,719 Speaker 4: Yeah. 70 00:03:26,840 --> 00:03:29,080 Speaker 5: I was really hoping that I could go and do 71 00:03:29,159 --> 00:03:30,319 a little hiking, but. 72 00:03:30,560 --> 00:03:33,840 Speaker 4: No, there are no mountains nearby. 73 00:03:33,639 --> 00:03:36,000 Speaker 2: I'm interested in. I'm walking across the prairie. 74 00:03:36,319 --> 00:03:38,319 Speaker 5: So that, yeah, that just goes to show that I 75 00:03:38,319 --> 00:03:41,039 should have paid better attention in geography class. And I 76 00:03:41,080 --> 00:03:44,319 did have a friend roast me on that pretty severely 77 00:03:45,000 --> 00:03:47,639 on Facebook, and I was like, I am an English teacher, 78 00:03:48,039 --> 00:03:50,680 not a geography teacher, and I'm sorry. When every bit 79 00:03:50,719 --> 00:03:54,439 of branding I've ever seen for Denver talks about the Rockies, 80 00:03:54,520 --> 00:03:56,080 I assume it's in the mountains. 81 00:03:56,159 --> 00:03:59,520 Speaker 2: Yep. I felt the same way, and now I'm realizing 82 00:03:59,560 --> 00:04:02,400 that something years ago when I was there for a 83 00:04:02,439 --> 00:04:06,159 big professional meeting there were mountains. We must have been 84 00:04:06,199 --> 00:04:08,840 in Boulder, because we sure as heck we're not in Denver. 85 00:04:09,240 --> 00:04:09,960 It's flat. 86 00:04:10,599 --> 00:04:15,719 Speaker 4: And then you've got the Gaylord Rockies just stretched sprawled 87 00:04:15,960 --> 00:04:19,759 across this big prairie when we started driving up to it, 88 00:04:19,800 --> 00:04:22,879 so I shared a taxi. It's my new crime con bestie. 89 00:04:22,920 --> 00:04:25,759 Shout out to Jenny Claire. We shared a taxi coming over. 90 00:04:25,639 --> 00:04:28,720 Speaker 5: To the Gaylord, and I looked out the window and 91 00:04:29,079 --> 00:04:31,519 I had just finished reading The Shining from Stephen King, 92 00:04:31,560 --> 00:04:33,920 and I was like, this is a freaking Overlook Hotel. 93 00:04:34,199 --> 00:04:37,000 Speaker 2: It looks like it and it's cimsy, built up on 94 00:04:37,040 --> 00:04:38,639 a little bit of a hill. I think they brought 95 00:04:38,639 --> 00:04:42,680 some dirt in and made a little hill. It's pretty spectacular. 96 00:04:43,040 --> 00:04:46,839 And the hotel was beautiful and brand new. It can't 97 00:04:47,040 --> 00:04:50,160 be more than a few years old. It was absolutely 98 00:04:50,199 --> 00:04:54,480 gorgeous and the people were great. Turnout for crime com 99 00:04:54,600 --> 00:04:57,399 was spectacular. They had I think the figure I've heard 100 00:04:57,439 --> 00:05:01,120 of six thousand and six hundred this year continues to grow. 101 00:05:01,279 --> 00:05:04,120 I asked Kevin balf who was the founder of crime Con, 102 00:05:04,240 --> 00:05:06,759 how they were looking for numbers, and he said, it's spectacular. 103 00:05:06,839 --> 00:05:09,199 We continue to grow at about ten percent a year. 104 00:05:09,759 --> 00:05:12,319 So the last time around was six thousand, so I'm 105 00:05:12,360 --> 00:05:15,240 hearing a number between six and seven thousand and sixty 106 00:05:15,399 --> 00:05:19,560 six hundred is the number that I heard. And boy, 107 00:05:20,399 --> 00:05:25,160 still having a great time. The fans were fired up. 108 00:05:25,279 --> 00:05:31,439 They were very enthusiastic. The crowds were large and still 109 00:05:31,560 --> 00:05:35,519 overwhelmingly women. I would even push our percentage job. I 110 00:05:35,600 --> 00:05:37,240 bet that was eighty percent women. 111 00:05:37,439 --> 00:05:40,360 Speaker 5: It had to be, but there were definitely more men 112 00:05:40,839 --> 00:05:42,399 than I have noticed before. 113 00:05:42,519 --> 00:05:43,519 Speaker 2: Oh that's interesting. 114 00:05:44,160 --> 00:05:47,040 Speaker 5: Yeah, because I was able to get out and walk 115 00:05:47,120 --> 00:05:49,319 around a little bit when I wasn't in the booth, 116 00:05:50,079 --> 00:05:52,480 like I was walking a friend of mine who joined 117 00:05:52,480 --> 00:05:54,800 me to a panel, and actually I noticed there were 118 00:05:54,800 --> 00:05:57,079 two guys in front of me. They were wearing matching 119 00:05:57,160 --> 00:06:00,680 T shirts and on the back it said he's the fan. 120 00:06:01,120 --> 00:06:03,560 I'm just here to carry her bags and drink beer. 121 00:06:03,600 --> 00:06:04,439 Speaker 4: And I was like, you know what. 122 00:06:04,480 --> 00:06:08,600 Speaker 2: It was perfect, You've defined your role as there, there 123 00:06:08,639 --> 00:06:12,720 it is. We had a lot of great interactions. I 124 00:06:12,800 --> 00:06:16,240 keep wanting to call our space podcastro because that's what 125 00:06:16,360 --> 00:06:19,199 it started out as. Now they call it Creator's Row 126 00:06:19,279 --> 00:06:24,199 because obviously not everybody's a podcaster. We had some fantastic 127 00:06:24,319 --> 00:06:28,439 interactions with fans, met a lot of new people, said 128 00:06:28,480 --> 00:06:31,000 hello to a lot of people that we know. The 129 00:06:31,160 --> 00:06:34,319 atmosphere I thought was super positive. People were having a 130 00:06:34,439 --> 00:06:39,160 really good time. They were spending a freaking fortune at 131 00:06:39,199 --> 00:06:43,680 the Adjoining bookstore, which also had all the merch from 132 00:06:43,759 --> 00:06:47,639 Crime Con. They've got hats and T shirts and sweatshirts, 133 00:06:47,680 --> 00:06:50,360 and it just went on and on for days, and 134 00:06:50,439 --> 00:06:56,399 people were loading up like armloads of merchandise and running 135 00:06:56,439 --> 00:06:59,439 up to the registers. They make a fortune with this stuff. 136 00:07:00,000 --> 00:07:02,319 Speaker 4: We always get in a day early Bill and I do. 137 00:07:02,560 --> 00:07:05,079 Speaker 5: And I got in earlier than Bill on this occasion, 138 00:07:05,120 --> 00:07:07,519 and so I went right to the Gaylord, dropped off 139 00:07:07,560 --> 00:07:10,800 my stuff, and then went to start putting our births together. 140 00:07:11,160 --> 00:07:16,360 And I was walking around with Lance from the absolutely 141 00:07:16,600 --> 00:07:21,480 fantastic Missing podcast Lance, and I noticed a group of 142 00:07:21,480 --> 00:07:24,680 people who should not have been in the bookstore and 143 00:07:24,759 --> 00:07:28,600 merch area in the bookstore and merch area, like basically shopping, 144 00:07:29,040 --> 00:07:32,800 filling their arms with merchandise, and they're like, where's the 145 00:07:32,800 --> 00:07:33,519 cash register? 146 00:07:35,319 --> 00:07:37,439 Speaker 4: No, it wasn't open. Yeah. 147 00:07:37,480 --> 00:07:39,879 Speaker 5: I went to go tell an event person, Hey, there 148 00:07:39,920 --> 00:07:42,360 are people shopping in here who absolutely should not be 149 00:07:42,399 --> 00:07:45,600 in here. Yet it's creators and it's creators and exhibitors 150 00:07:45,720 --> 00:07:48,959 only on Thursday. But one of the things that the 151 00:07:49,040 --> 00:07:53,279 person who was asking for the registers was holding was 152 00:07:53,439 --> 00:07:57,439 like a pale rose slash lavender T shirt for crime Con. 153 00:07:57,519 --> 00:07:59,800 Speaker 4: It was a design and it had a tarot card 154 00:08:00,399 --> 00:08:01,439 styled on the front. 155 00:08:01,519 --> 00:08:02,560 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, an. 156 00:08:02,480 --> 00:08:03,879 Speaker 4: Investigator or something like that. 157 00:08:04,199 --> 00:08:07,480 Speaker 5: And I remember telling Lance, I said, I got to 158 00:08:07,519 --> 00:08:08,439 get one of those shirts. 159 00:08:08,519 --> 00:08:09,480 Speaker 2: Those are horrific. 160 00:08:09,800 --> 00:08:12,360 Speaker 5: Yeah, And I figured, if they know it's going to 161 00:08:12,399 --> 00:08:14,480 be popular, they must have plenty of them. 162 00:08:14,959 --> 00:08:18,639 Speaker 4: They did not. They sold out of that shirt on Friday. 163 00:08:18,720 --> 00:08:20,920 Speaker 5: I never got to get it, and I am salty 164 00:08:21,040 --> 00:08:24,000 as hell about it because I wanted that shirt. 165 00:08:24,199 --> 00:08:27,560 Speaker 2: It was a really bad, cool and kind of unusual design. 166 00:08:27,600 --> 00:08:31,199 They had tons of merchandise courts. They've got them crime 167 00:08:31,240 --> 00:08:33,960 con logo, and they've always got things like basically a 168 00:08:34,000 --> 00:08:39,559 detective merch like that. I didn't realize Thursday is a 169 00:08:39,600 --> 00:08:46,480 setup day and the show opens Friday at noon. Not mistaken. Now, 170 00:08:46,519 --> 00:08:49,840 if you're local, that is in Colorado or whatever, I 171 00:08:49,879 --> 00:08:52,679 suppose you could come in early Friday morning and set 172 00:08:52,759 --> 00:08:56,000 up your booth. There are dozens and dozens of rows 173 00:08:56,080 --> 00:08:59,200 and rows of all the people on Creators Row, and 174 00:08:59,240 --> 00:09:01,879 you go to your place. And then, like when we 175 00:09:01,919 --> 00:09:06,080 met Thursday, you're already setting up the booth, and we 176 00:09:06,120 --> 00:09:09,519 saw lots of our fellow podcasters and people from the 177 00:09:09,559 --> 00:09:13,200 true crime space all setting up. I didn't realize people 178 00:09:13,360 --> 00:09:17,399 they were so excited about spending hundreds of dollars on 179 00:09:17,559 --> 00:09:20,200 merchandise that they were prepared to do so even before 180 00:09:20,240 --> 00:09:21,080 the show had opened. 181 00:09:21,840 --> 00:09:25,159 Speaker 4: Yeah. No, it eventually, Lance and I went to get somebody. 182 00:09:25,159 --> 00:09:26,799 Speaker 5: We were like, you're going to get these people out 183 00:09:26,799 --> 00:09:30,000 of here that they're trying, so there's nobody available to 184 00:09:30,519 --> 00:09:32,600 help them because nothing's open. 185 00:09:33,360 --> 00:09:36,080 Speaker 2: I actually might suggest a crime Con that they put 186 00:09:36,120 --> 00:09:38,159 one or two people on the registers if they were 187 00:09:38,279 --> 00:09:40,840 up and runt, because they're leaving money on the table 188 00:09:40,840 --> 00:09:43,480 if people are willing to spend hundreds of dollars already 189 00:09:43,720 --> 00:09:45,559 even before the show opens. 190 00:09:45,639 --> 00:09:47,559 Speaker 5: Here, if you're going to take a suggestion to crime Con, 191 00:09:47,679 --> 00:09:51,320 suggests that they have on Thursday, that they allow creators 192 00:09:51,759 --> 00:09:54,679 to come through and do their shopping. Yeah, because I 193 00:09:54,840 --> 00:09:57,559 missed the T shirt that I definitely would have spend 194 00:09:57,559 --> 00:10:00,639 money on. Don't normally because I have enough crime kind gear, 195 00:10:01,159 --> 00:10:03,519 but I definitely would have bought that one, and there 196 00:10:03,559 --> 00:10:06,039 wasn't anything else that I wanted beyond that. So I 197 00:10:06,080 --> 00:10:08,039 would say, if you're going to take a suggestion to Kevin, 198 00:10:08,159 --> 00:10:10,440 tell him you got to have a time on Thursday 199 00:10:10,519 --> 00:10:13,720 during setup or Friday morning before the doors open when 200 00:10:13,720 --> 00:10:16,240 the creators and exhibitors can go through and buy their 201 00:10:16,320 --> 00:10:18,960 merch because if we wanted before everyone else can get 202 00:10:18,960 --> 00:10:19,279 to it. 203 00:10:19,519 --> 00:10:24,120 Speaker 2: That Tarot card shirt, by the way, was I feel 204 00:10:24,159 --> 00:10:26,840 like I have enough T shirts and sweatshirts and all 205 00:10:26,840 --> 00:10:28,519 that kind of stuff, so I don't usually buy much 206 00:10:28,600 --> 00:10:31,000 of that. But that shirt I thought was really cool. 207 00:10:31,159 --> 00:10:33,039 I think it said the investigator on it. 208 00:10:33,200 --> 00:10:36,200 Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah, I really wanted it like a lot. 209 00:10:36,360 --> 00:10:38,639 Speaker 5: I'm gonna have to see if maybe they will keep 210 00:10:38,639 --> 00:10:40,919 it in stock online or something like that, because I 211 00:10:40,960 --> 00:10:41,759 really wanted it. 212 00:10:42,759 --> 00:10:47,080 Speaker 2: I was looking at crime con merchandise online for whatever 213 00:10:47,480 --> 00:10:49,000 reason morning. 214 00:10:49,480 --> 00:10:51,480 Speaker 4: Says the guy who said he doesn't want T shirts. 215 00:10:51,600 --> 00:10:53,720 Speaker 2: I know, but they did have some cool stuff. I 216 00:10:53,759 --> 00:10:54,360 will say that. 217 00:10:55,039 --> 00:10:57,559 Speaker 5: And it is funny looking at the bookstore because it 218 00:10:57,679 --> 00:11:00,279 is very rare that there is anything new at the 219 00:11:00,279 --> 00:11:04,159 bookstore that it could surprise me because I read this 220 00:11:04,240 --> 00:11:06,879 stuff so much. And also, we are in a very 221 00:11:07,039 --> 00:11:12,600 lucky position that a lot of publicists from publishing companies, 222 00:11:12,600 --> 00:11:14,919 including some pretty well known ones, will reach out to 223 00:11:15,000 --> 00:11:17,360 us and say, hey, we have a book that's coming 224 00:11:17,360 --> 00:11:19,960 out to three months from now. Would you like an 225 00:11:20,000 --> 00:11:22,159 advanced reader copy and would you like to do an 226 00:11:22,200 --> 00:11:23,200 initial interview. 227 00:11:24,039 --> 00:11:24,919 Speaker 4: So we're lucky enough. 228 00:11:24,919 --> 00:11:27,919 Speaker 5: For example, we're talking to Gilbert King from Bone Valley 229 00:11:28,039 --> 00:11:30,000 next week and his book does not come out for 230 00:11:30,039 --> 00:11:33,519 another month. So I don't normally find anything that I 231 00:11:33,600 --> 00:11:36,759 really need or want in the bookstore, but I did 232 00:11:36,840 --> 00:11:40,600 happen to find Ann Burgess in Stephen Constantine's new book, 233 00:11:40,799 --> 00:11:43,240 which is not out yet on the shelves, at least 234 00:11:43,240 --> 00:11:44,600 not at my local Barnes and Noble. 235 00:11:44,879 --> 00:11:46,840 Speaker 4: So I was very happy to grab that. 236 00:11:47,000 --> 00:11:49,320 Speaker 5: And I'm happy to spend a little bit of money 237 00:11:49,399 --> 00:11:51,679 Crime cons Way because I was able to get it 238 00:11:51,720 --> 00:11:53,159 there before anywhere else. 239 00:11:53,879 --> 00:11:58,639 Speaker 2: And Burgess and Stephen Constantine were both there, and we're 240 00:11:58,840 --> 00:12:02,879 extremely well received because of course, Anne Burgess is a 241 00:12:03,000 --> 00:12:08,519 legendary researcher. There's a character that's clearly based on her 242 00:12:08,759 --> 00:12:11,519 that appeared in the television series of a couple of 243 00:12:11,600 --> 00:12:14,879 years ago, Mindhunter, which is my favorite show that year, 244 00:12:14,919 --> 00:12:17,519 and I'm still unhappy they haven't brought it back for 245 00:12:17,600 --> 00:12:22,039 another season because it was absolutely fascinating to go behind 246 00:12:22,039 --> 00:12:27,080 the scenes of the original group of profilers and researchers 247 00:12:27,320 --> 00:12:30,279 that put together much of the research that was done, 248 00:12:30,799 --> 00:12:34,080 in some cases for the first time into serial killers 249 00:12:34,120 --> 00:12:37,639 and why they do the things that they do. I 250 00:12:37,759 --> 00:12:41,480 ran into a number of people who were super excited 251 00:12:41,600 --> 00:12:43,919 to meet Anne Burgess, who's absolutely lovely. 252 00:12:44,759 --> 00:12:48,240 Speaker 4: How old is that now, only probably seventies. 253 00:12:48,639 --> 00:12:50,840 Speaker 2: No, I think she's I think she's even a little 254 00:12:50,879 --> 00:12:52,600 older than that. I think she's eighty. 255 00:12:53,639 --> 00:12:56,679 Speaker 5: She is amazing, though, and I would say that probably 256 00:12:56,759 --> 00:12:59,159 one of the best moments that came from Crime Con 257 00:12:59,360 --> 00:13:03,919 last year Nashville was getting her and John Douglas both 258 00:13:04,039 --> 00:13:07,039 to autograph my copy of the Crime Classification Manual, which 259 00:13:07,080 --> 00:13:08,000 they co wrote together. 260 00:13:08,080 --> 00:13:08,799 Speaker 4: Yes, I'm a nerd. 261 00:13:09,440 --> 00:13:11,200 Speaker 2: It only shows just a little Chris. 262 00:13:12,440 --> 00:13:15,639 Speaker 5: It's so funny, but Bill, I think sometimes my esteem 263 00:13:15,720 --> 00:13:18,720 podcast partner doesn't realize exactly how much of a nerd 264 00:13:18,759 --> 00:13:19,519 I truly am. 265 00:13:19,679 --> 00:13:21,240 Speaker 2: Oh I think I figured it out. 266 00:13:21,919 --> 00:13:25,480 Speaker 5: He walked in on me talking to Julia Crowley of 267 00:13:25,559 --> 00:13:29,039 the consult and she is a retired FBI agent. I 268 00:13:29,120 --> 00:13:32,159 was asking her about running the Yellow Brick Red and 269 00:13:32,200 --> 00:13:35,120 doing Hogan Sally at the FBI Academy. And I know 270 00:13:35,279 --> 00:13:37,679 that I was like a kid in a candy store. Oh, 271 00:13:37,759 --> 00:13:40,559 you were just wanting to hear all her story. 272 00:13:40,879 --> 00:13:44,399 Speaker 2: Taking out and she became a profiler as well. So 273 00:13:44,919 --> 00:13:47,399 I was joking that she's going to be my new 274 00:13:47,399 --> 00:13:48,000 best friend. 275 00:13:48,679 --> 00:13:50,360 Speaker 4: She's going to be my new best friend too, because 276 00:13:50,360 --> 00:13:51,000 she's awesome. 277 00:13:51,159 --> 00:13:55,159 Speaker 2: She really is fantastic. So hopefully we'll have Julia Cowley 278 00:13:55,240 --> 00:13:58,480 on our podcast at some point, and then she has 279 00:13:58,519 --> 00:14:03,279 a four person podcas and if I'm not mistaken, the consult. 280 00:14:03,480 --> 00:14:06,960 Her podcast features four people, all of whom I believe 281 00:14:07,000 --> 00:14:08,759 are former FBI profilers. 282 00:14:08,799 --> 00:14:11,399 Speaker 5: So she said it's run just like they would if 283 00:14:11,399 --> 00:14:13,919 they were doing a consult on a case, which I love. 284 00:14:14,039 --> 00:14:15,159 Speaker 4: I think that's so cool. 285 00:14:16,039 --> 00:14:18,960 Speaker 2: They're on my list for podcasts I want to check out. 286 00:14:19,399 --> 00:14:23,159 As it turns out, Julia only lives about an hour 287 00:14:23,440 --> 00:14:26,879 away from me, up in Massachusetts, and I offered to 288 00:14:26,919 --> 00:14:28,720 take her to lunch and she said yes, So I'm 289 00:14:28,720 --> 00:14:30,720 going to try to drive up there at some point 290 00:14:31,480 --> 00:14:34,600 and I'll totally geek out. You were asking all about 291 00:14:34,720 --> 00:14:37,240 the Yellow Brick Road at Quantico. 292 00:14:38,440 --> 00:14:41,120 Speaker 5: Oh, if I could actually go and run the yellow 293 00:14:41,120 --> 00:14:43,639 Brick Road, And honestly, this is my entreaty to anyone 294 00:14:43,679 --> 00:14:46,720 currently listening who has access to the Yellow Brick Road or. 295 00:14:46,679 --> 00:14:48,360 Speaker 4: The FBI Academy. Please. 296 00:14:49,159 --> 00:14:52,519 Speaker 5: My lifelong dream at this point is to run the 297 00:14:52,600 --> 00:14:53,320 Yellow Brick Road. 298 00:14:53,360 --> 00:14:54,759 Speaker 4: It is six point two miles. 299 00:14:54,799 --> 00:14:57,639 Speaker 5: It's a big old obstacle course, and I want to 300 00:14:57,679 --> 00:15:00,679 do it so bad ever since I saw Jody doing 301 00:15:00,679 --> 00:15:03,519 it in Silence of the Lambs. That is my goal 302 00:15:03,720 --> 00:15:06,759 is to run the Yellow Rick Road. Anybody out there 303 00:15:06,799 --> 00:15:09,240 has access to the FBI Academy who can get me there, 304 00:15:09,399 --> 00:15:12,320 Please let me know. I am desperate to run it. 305 00:15:12,399 --> 00:15:14,080 I know that I can. I can do six point 306 00:15:14,120 --> 00:15:14,679 two miles. 307 00:15:15,200 --> 00:15:18,519 Speaker 2: Okay, once we connect with our new best friend Julia, 308 00:15:18,600 --> 00:15:20,360 perhaps she can help in that regard. 309 00:15:21,639 --> 00:15:25,320 Speaker 5: That would be amazing, That would be amazing. You did 310 00:15:25,320 --> 00:15:27,840 get to see a couple of panels while you were there. 311 00:15:27,919 --> 00:15:29,799 Why don't you tell us a little bit about what 312 00:15:29,840 --> 00:15:31,720 you saw and what really jumped out of you. 313 00:15:31,879 --> 00:15:35,360 Speaker 2: Sure? We were so slammed with saying hi to folks 314 00:15:35,480 --> 00:15:38,240 on Creator's row. At our mind Over Murder booth, we 315 00:15:38,279 --> 00:15:42,840 have postcards with information about our podcast, the Colonial Parkway Murders, 316 00:15:42,840 --> 00:15:45,360 and then we had done a postcard as well with 317 00:15:45,480 --> 00:15:50,159 information on our identified suspect, Alan Wade Wilmer Senior from 318 00:15:50,200 --> 00:15:55,120 the Colonial Parkway murders. We actually took publicly available information 319 00:15:55,639 --> 00:15:58,679 from the Virginia State Police and put it into a 320 00:15:58,759 --> 00:16:02,759 nice looking template courtesy of Pamela Arnwahem, my partner. So 321 00:16:02,840 --> 00:16:05,799 we gave a lot of that material out. Every once 322 00:16:05,840 --> 00:16:08,039 in a while, I was able to sneak away and 323 00:16:08,080 --> 00:16:11,279 I went to two panels in particular that I thought 324 00:16:11,320 --> 00:16:15,759 were worth mentioning. One was David Middleman, the CEO of 325 00:16:15,960 --> 00:16:19,759 Athram's presentation on what's going on with Othram and the 326 00:16:19,840 --> 00:16:27,320 latest on advance forensics. It was incredibly interesting and so impressive. 327 00:16:27,399 --> 00:16:32,120 They're really pushing the cutting edge, solving cases literally in 328 00:16:32,159 --> 00:16:35,759 real time at crime Con. The whole staff they're up 329 00:16:35,799 --> 00:16:39,000 over eighty people now, the whole staff just gets so 330 00:16:39,279 --> 00:16:43,759 excited whenever they're able to announce a solve, which could 331 00:16:43,799 --> 00:16:46,240 be a cold case, it could be a missing person 332 00:16:46,240 --> 00:16:48,879 who has not been identified. They do a lot with 333 00:16:49,320 --> 00:16:54,440 unidentified remains and giving victims or other people who've passed 334 00:16:54,480 --> 00:16:57,360 away and whose bodies have been found their names back. 335 00:16:57,960 --> 00:17:01,159 It's so exciting. So while I I was checking out 336 00:17:01,360 --> 00:17:05,720 their booth, they were announcing new salves in real time, 337 00:17:06,799 --> 00:17:10,720 so it was really exciting. David's presentation is fantastic. He's 338 00:17:10,720 --> 00:17:14,319 able to explain all the complicated DNA and forensic work 339 00:17:14,400 --> 00:17:16,799 they're doing in a way that most of us I 340 00:17:16,839 --> 00:17:20,880 think can understand, and then he's very humble and he 341 00:17:20,960 --> 00:17:24,960 doesn't come across I don't think you can't have succeeded 342 00:17:24,960 --> 00:17:30,400 at that level without being incredibly intelligent and thoughtful and 343 00:17:30,599 --> 00:17:35,519 analytical and determined. He comes across as very down to 344 00:17:35,599 --> 00:17:38,240 earth in his presentation. He's up there in his jeans 345 00:17:38,240 --> 00:17:41,440 and T shirt. My favorite part of the panel was 346 00:17:41,480 --> 00:17:44,880 when he went to questions. Questions were really good and 347 00:17:45,000 --> 00:17:48,960 very thoughtful. Carla Walker, who was one of the victims 348 00:17:48,960 --> 00:17:51,480 who has identified a couple of years ago at a 349 00:17:51,839 --> 00:17:55,200 Texas case that had been dragging on for forty five years, 350 00:17:55,440 --> 00:17:58,759 her brother Jim got up and spoke about how this 351 00:17:58,880 --> 00:18:01,319 case would have never been so his sister's murder would 352 00:18:01,319 --> 00:18:04,680 have remained a mystery forever had it not been for Athram. 353 00:18:05,079 --> 00:18:09,440 And then a few minutes later, Stacy Chapin got up, 354 00:18:09,519 --> 00:18:13,759 and she's Ethan Chapin's mother from the Idaho four case, 355 00:18:14,440 --> 00:18:18,200 and she was absolutely lovely. It was still difficult for 356 00:18:18,240 --> 00:18:21,759 her to speak publicly about Ethan. She struggles, the emotion 357 00:18:22,000 --> 00:18:24,160 is just still so close to the surface. But she 358 00:18:24,319 --> 00:18:28,440 was absolutely lovely and she again said, Oh. She had 359 00:18:28,599 --> 00:18:32,559 met Kristin Middleman at crime con two years ago, and 360 00:18:32,680 --> 00:18:35,880 Kristen committed to her they would do their absolute best 361 00:18:36,000 --> 00:18:39,079 to help solve the Idaho four case. And wouldn't you know, 362 00:18:39,200 --> 00:18:43,519 they sure did. There was a separate discussion at crime Con. 363 00:18:43,640 --> 00:18:46,440 Unfortunately I got tied up with other booth stuff and 364 00:18:46,519 --> 00:18:48,359 I wasn't able to get to it, but I understand 365 00:18:48,400 --> 00:18:53,119 it was amazing that was Kristin Middleman and Stacy Chapin 366 00:18:53,240 --> 00:18:56,759 together talking about how they met and how Kristin made 367 00:18:56,759 --> 00:19:00,240 this commitment to Stacy and her family and then was 368 00:19:00,279 --> 00:19:03,680 able to deliver, and apparently it was amazing as well. 369 00:19:03,880 --> 00:19:06,039 If I have a regret, it's just that you can't 370 00:19:06,079 --> 00:19:07,839 be in two places at one time. 371 00:19:08,200 --> 00:19:09,680 Speaker 4: Yeah, exactly. I would say. 372 00:19:09,759 --> 00:19:12,759 Speaker 5: Really, the only I guess fault that you can find 373 00:19:12,759 --> 00:19:14,559 with crime Con is just the fact that they have 374 00:19:14,759 --> 00:19:17,160 so many amazing panels going all at the same time 375 00:19:17,200 --> 00:19:21,160 that you absolutely to make really hard choices, And it's 376 00:19:21,200 --> 00:19:23,920 definitely something that you have to weigh and measure. What 377 00:19:23,920 --> 00:19:25,640 are you going to listen to, what do you think 378 00:19:25,720 --> 00:19:28,519 you can listen to over crime HQ for example, and 379 00:19:28,559 --> 00:19:30,720 what do you want to see in person? And there's 380 00:19:30,720 --> 00:19:34,200 definitely a fear of missing out that comes along with that, 381 00:19:34,599 --> 00:19:36,599 and even just for us, like when we're in a 382 00:19:36,640 --> 00:19:39,839 booth giving out information or in my case, I was 383 00:19:39,880 --> 00:19:42,119 trying to sell some merch this time you do end 384 00:19:42,200 --> 00:19:45,000 up missing things. For example, I did not have a 385 00:19:45,079 --> 00:19:47,160 chance to talk to Gilbert King like I wanted to. 386 00:19:47,400 --> 00:19:49,640 I didn't get a chance to meet Kate Winkler Dawson, 387 00:19:49,680 --> 00:19:51,920 who I also wanted to because she's we've had her 388 00:19:51,960 --> 00:19:54,599 on the podcast. I actually really regret the fact that 389 00:19:54,640 --> 00:19:56,559 I wasn't able to meet any of the people that 390 00:19:56,599 --> 00:19:58,720 I wanted this time. I had John Walsh on my list, 391 00:19:58,759 --> 00:19:59,559 didn't meet him. 392 00:20:00,079 --> 00:20:00,920 Speaker 4: The most people that. 393 00:20:00,920 --> 00:20:03,640 Speaker 5: I saw was on our very first day there Thursday, 394 00:20:04,079 --> 00:20:06,160 And this is also a strength of crime Con. I 395 00:20:06,240 --> 00:20:09,160 walked into the lobby at the Gay Lord and I 396 00:20:09,200 --> 00:20:12,319 had literally set foot inside. It wasn't even inside for 397 00:20:12,400 --> 00:20:17,359 ten seconds before I heard people yelling my name, and 398 00:20:17,440 --> 00:20:20,440 it was Dereka and Natalie from Black and Missing right 399 00:20:20,480 --> 00:20:23,319 after that. It's just either wonderful. It's just a slew 400 00:20:23,359 --> 00:20:26,240 of people that you know and love saying hi. And 401 00:20:26,279 --> 00:20:28,279 I would say that for me, the greatest strength of 402 00:20:28,319 --> 00:20:30,720 crime Con. The thing that I love the most about 403 00:20:30,759 --> 00:20:32,680 crime Con weekends is this is where I get to 404 00:20:32,720 --> 00:20:35,880 see my people. These are my people like I don't have. 405 00:20:36,599 --> 00:20:38,319 I'm sure that I have some listeners who are going 406 00:20:38,359 --> 00:20:40,759 to understand this because there are people out there who 407 00:20:40,759 --> 00:20:43,799 are introverts just like I am. You, sir, as an extrovert, 408 00:20:43,880 --> 00:20:46,079 have never met someone that you don't like. But I 409 00:20:46,079 --> 00:20:48,000 am an introvert, and it is hard for me to 410 00:20:48,039 --> 00:20:50,720 find a group of people that I call mine crime 411 00:20:50,759 --> 00:20:54,920 con people, true crime people. They are my people. And 412 00:20:55,039 --> 00:20:57,160 so I have one weekend a year where I get 413 00:20:57,160 --> 00:20:59,400 to be with my people, and that is crime con. 414 00:21:00,079 --> 00:21:03,359 So being able to just make the rounds on Creator Row. 415 00:21:03,759 --> 00:21:06,319 Oh look there's Lands, Let's go say hi, Hey, there's 416 00:21:06,319 --> 00:21:10,599 Shane Waters, There's just Button Core, there's Paul Holes. It's 417 00:21:10,640 --> 00:21:14,240 amazing because you get to see everybody that you love 418 00:21:15,119 --> 00:21:17,720 who holds the same values that you do. And I 419 00:21:17,759 --> 00:21:21,519 find that amazing and very fulfilling, because, as anybody who 420 00:21:21,599 --> 00:21:24,559 works in this space knows, the only people who understand 421 00:21:24,640 --> 00:21:26,319 what it's like to be in the space are the 422 00:21:26,359 --> 00:21:29,920 people who are in the space already. My family does 423 00:21:29,960 --> 00:21:33,720 not understand why I do what I do. My very sweet, supportive, 424 00:21:33,799 --> 00:21:37,039 wonderful life partner Mark, he tries very hard to understand 425 00:21:37,079 --> 00:21:38,519 why I do what I do, but he doesn't get 426 00:21:38,519 --> 00:21:41,680 it either. It is very difficult sometimes to be someone 427 00:21:41,680 --> 00:21:45,000 who loves being in the crime space that most people 428 00:21:45,039 --> 00:21:47,960 find dark and a little creepy. To find your people 429 00:21:48,160 --> 00:21:51,279 and have your people with you, it means a lot 430 00:21:51,319 --> 00:21:53,440 to me. So I love being able to do crime 431 00:21:53,480 --> 00:21:56,039 con for that reason. And to walk into a place 432 00:21:56,039 --> 00:21:58,240 and have so many people just call your name and be. 433 00:21:58,160 --> 00:22:01,599 Speaker 4: Like, hey missed you, so glad to see you. It's wonderful. 434 00:22:01,720 --> 00:22:04,359 Speaker 5: I feel like I have a community, and that's not 435 00:22:04,480 --> 00:22:07,200 something that I think I've ever really had before. It's 436 00:22:07,200 --> 00:22:08,319 a very big deal to me. 437 00:22:08,839 --> 00:22:13,000 Speaker 2: I feel the same way. It's amazing if for anybody's 438 00:22:13,000 --> 00:22:17,200 interested in attending crime con that's into true crime, it's 439 00:22:17,240 --> 00:22:21,799 a phenomenal experience. Yeah, I think this was we figured out. 440 00:22:21,839 --> 00:22:25,839 This is my seventh crime corin in your sixth Yes, 441 00:22:25,960 --> 00:22:27,000 you missed Austin. 442 00:22:27,400 --> 00:22:29,880 Speaker 5: I missed Austin because we were still in lockdown and 443 00:22:29,960 --> 00:22:30,599 I was teaching. 444 00:22:31,079 --> 00:22:34,839 Speaker 2: It's just such a privilege to walk around there. If anything, 445 00:22:34,880 --> 00:22:38,160 it's an embarrassment of riches for anyone that attends crime crime. 446 00:22:38,200 --> 00:22:41,680 There are so many interesting things going on. Oftentimes there 447 00:22:41,680 --> 00:22:44,640 are two and three different panels going on in different 448 00:22:44,680 --> 00:22:47,400 but joining ballrooms, all at the same time, and you 449 00:22:47,440 --> 00:22:49,680 have to decide, okay, which one are we going to 450 00:22:49,759 --> 00:22:52,480 go to and sometimes you and I will divide and conquer, 451 00:22:52,640 --> 00:22:55,039 where one of us will go to a panel while 452 00:22:55,039 --> 00:22:57,480 the other person's at the booth, and vice versa. You 453 00:22:57,559 --> 00:23:01,240 have to make some hard choices about what it is 454 00:23:01,319 --> 00:23:04,720 that's most important to you. Maybe there's somebody that you're 455 00:23:04,759 --> 00:23:08,839 excited about seeing. I'm realizing, even as I'm glancing at 456 00:23:08,960 --> 00:23:11,720 the many people that spoke, I really wanted to hear 457 00:23:11,799 --> 00:23:15,880 Marshall Clark speak, and yeah, didn't get an opportunity to 458 00:23:15,960 --> 00:23:20,000 see her. There were so many impressive people. I did 459 00:23:20,039 --> 00:23:22,559 have a chance to say hello to a lot of folks, 460 00:23:23,200 --> 00:23:26,039 because as you walk from place to place, you run 461 00:23:26,079 --> 00:23:27,519 into all sorts of people. 462 00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:30,119 Speaker 4: Yeah, well hallway, I saw Josh Macawa. 463 00:23:30,119 --> 00:23:32,960 Speaker 5: It's very quickly, it's you know, past people come in 464 00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:36,119 and going. We saw Paul Holes at dinner, for example. 465 00:23:35,799 --> 00:23:38,480 Speaker 2: And I saw Paul in the bar as well. You 466 00:23:38,519 --> 00:23:41,480 had seen kind Natalie from the Black and Missing Foundation, 467 00:23:41,559 --> 00:23:43,200 who were just delightful people. 468 00:23:43,640 --> 00:23:44,640 Speaker 4: Then they're wonderful. 469 00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:49,079 Speaker 2: That Saturday night, I guess that was at the Clue Awards. 470 00:23:49,279 --> 00:23:52,359 We were seated with Dereka and Natalie, so that was 471 00:23:52,519 --> 00:23:54,759 really fun and I had a chance to chat with 472 00:23:54,799 --> 00:23:57,160 them and catch up a little bit. There's so many 473 00:23:57,240 --> 00:23:59,880 amazing people in the true crime space, and then you 474 00:24:00,119 --> 00:24:03,400 meet all sorts of new people, and I'm always looking 475 00:24:03,680 --> 00:24:08,440 to connect with the two audiences. There's now this year, 476 00:24:08,480 --> 00:24:11,200 I think it was sixty six hundred true crime fans. 477 00:24:11,559 --> 00:24:13,880 Some of them listen to Mind over Murder, others we'd 478 00:24:13,920 --> 00:24:16,319 like them to check us out and see what we're about. 479 00:24:16,400 --> 00:24:18,799 So there was a lot of that kind of connection 480 00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:22,559 going on, especially on Creator's Row, which I still struggle 481 00:24:22,599 --> 00:24:25,559 and want to call by podcast Row. There's a secondary 482 00:24:25,640 --> 00:24:28,319 audience which is very important, I think to both of us, 483 00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:31,240 which are two to three hundred I would say subject 484 00:24:31,279 --> 00:24:35,200 matter experts, and it's a different lineup every year. These 485 00:24:35,240 --> 00:24:39,720 are folks that are there typically to present, speak on panels, 486 00:24:40,319 --> 00:24:43,799 appear at various activities. There are a lot of people 487 00:24:43,839 --> 00:24:46,839 that can be very beneficial because obviously we have a 488 00:24:46,920 --> 00:24:50,960 goal of moving the Colonial Parkway murders investigation forward. I 489 00:24:51,079 --> 00:24:57,759 met a lot of people in law enforcement, forensics, investigators, 490 00:24:57,880 --> 00:25:01,880 journalists who want to help bus moved the Colonial Parkway 491 00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:05,559 murders forward. So that's a great interest as well. That's 492 00:25:05,599 --> 00:25:08,920 a smaller group of people, but you want to kind 493 00:25:08,960 --> 00:25:12,279 of work both of those angles. Connecting with the large 494 00:25:12,279 --> 00:25:15,319 group of fans that are there, who were there having 495 00:25:15,359 --> 00:25:18,200 a great time, and we talked about percentage wise, I 496 00:25:18,240 --> 00:25:22,119 think it's eighty percent women. Now. I met a lot 497 00:25:22,240 --> 00:25:25,680 of teams of people that are good friends that are 498 00:25:25,680 --> 00:25:29,799 into true crime. They are now planning their vacations around 499 00:25:29,920 --> 00:25:32,599 crime come which I just made me laugh in a 500 00:25:32,640 --> 00:25:34,920 good way. And then I met a lot of sisters 501 00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:38,359 that were together. They love true crime and they like 502 00:25:38,440 --> 00:25:43,519 to do things together, mother daughter duos. I was seated 503 00:25:43,799 --> 00:25:49,440 at the Clue Awards with an aunt and her grown daughter, 504 00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:53,640 both of whom are big true crime fans. Nice So 505 00:25:53,880 --> 00:25:57,599 there were a lot of really fun pairings of women 506 00:25:57,759 --> 00:26:02,000 that are good friends and are there because they're really 507 00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:06,039 interested in true crime. You're listening to Mind over Murder. 508 00:26:06,039 --> 00:26:09,960 We'll be right back after this word from our sponsors. 509 00:26:12,400 --> 00:26:15,519 We're back here at mindover Murder. And then I met 510 00:26:15,559 --> 00:26:18,640 a fair number of couples, gay and straight, and I 511 00:26:18,680 --> 00:26:21,759 would say I don't think the husbands and boyfriends were 512 00:26:21,759 --> 00:26:25,039 being dragged along because they were having a good time too, 513 00:26:25,079 --> 00:26:27,400 and they had a lot of questions, like a lot 514 00:26:27,440 --> 00:26:30,880 of enthusiasm I would say there were far more women 515 00:26:31,319 --> 00:26:34,440 traveling on their own or with their friends. The guys 516 00:26:34,440 --> 00:26:36,880 seem to be having a good time too, which I'm 517 00:26:37,039 --> 00:26:40,559 happy to see everybody. It was really fun. Sometimes the 518 00:26:40,680 --> 00:26:44,119 topics are tough. They can be dark. You're talking about 519 00:26:44,200 --> 00:26:47,720 loss here, you're talking about murdered and missing people. So 520 00:26:47,799 --> 00:26:52,880 the topics can be serious, and sometimes the conversation can 521 00:26:52,960 --> 00:26:55,799 be dark, I guess is the right word. But at 522 00:26:55,799 --> 00:27:00,359 the same time, people are incredibly supportive. They are. Yeah, 523 00:27:00,799 --> 00:27:04,359 I'm thinking back to Stacy Chape and struggling, and I 524 00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:06,960 heard her speak twice over the weekend, once at the 525 00:27:07,079 --> 00:27:11,200 cocktail party for the Clue Awards as well. But the 526 00:27:11,359 --> 00:27:16,240 crowds are so supportive of Yeah, people much like ourselves 527 00:27:16,240 --> 00:27:19,240 who've been through some of these losses. To get that 528 00:27:19,359 --> 00:27:22,880 kind of support from people that are really interested in 529 00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:27,119 true crime and in showing their support for the victims 530 00:27:27,160 --> 00:27:30,200 and survivors of true crime, that was pretty inspiring. 531 00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:31,079 Speaker 4: Yeah. 532 00:27:31,400 --> 00:27:34,480 Speaker 5: There were two particular things that I wanted to highlight 533 00:27:34,519 --> 00:27:36,319 that I feel like Crime Con did well and I'd 534 00:27:36,359 --> 00:27:38,960 like to see them do it again. This one I 535 00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:42,559 loved just as an animal lover. They partnered with one 536 00:27:42,559 --> 00:27:46,119 of the shelters in Denver and had a pen full 537 00:27:46,200 --> 00:27:49,920 of puppies available for people too to play with but 538 00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:53,359 also to adopt. And I love the fact that you 539 00:27:53,440 --> 00:27:56,519 could if the subject matter got too dark or whatever, 540 00:27:56,559 --> 00:27:58,839 you could go play with some puppies. I had a 541 00:27:58,880 --> 00:28:01,039 couple of moments where I like, I needed to go 542 00:28:01,279 --> 00:28:03,240 and get some puppy love, and so I went over 543 00:28:03,279 --> 00:28:04,720 to one of the handlers and I said, can I 544 00:28:04,759 --> 00:28:06,240 play with this puppy for a few minutes? 545 00:28:06,240 --> 00:28:08,079 Speaker 4: And they were like, yeah, absolutely. 546 00:28:07,519 --> 00:28:09,400 Speaker 5: And what isn't going to make your day better than 547 00:28:09,720 --> 00:28:11,880 a puppy giving you kisses all over your face? So 548 00:28:11,920 --> 00:28:13,680 I love that they did that, and I hope they 549 00:28:13,799 --> 00:28:15,960 do that at the next place that they go to, 550 00:28:16,039 --> 00:28:16,720 which is going. 551 00:28:16,599 --> 00:28:17,160 Speaker 4: To be Vegas. 552 00:28:17,440 --> 00:28:20,960 Speaker 2: Those dogs, by the way, were available for adoption, Yes 553 00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:23,960 they were. The puppies were available for adoption, but only 554 00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:27,640 the Colorado residents puppy and say here, take this puppy 555 00:28:27,680 --> 00:28:31,119 to Virginia on your way home. That's obviously not going 556 00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:36,319 to work. The pumpstars were available for adoption for Colorado residents, 557 00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:39,480 of which there were tons and met a lot. I 558 00:28:39,519 --> 00:28:40,119 really loved that. 559 00:28:40,559 --> 00:28:42,279 Speaker 5: The other thing that I thought was great and I 560 00:28:42,319 --> 00:28:44,519 would again like to see crime con do more of 561 00:28:44,559 --> 00:28:49,200 this by encouraging other people to do this. On Creator Rope, 562 00:28:49,440 --> 00:28:52,240 there was a really excellent booth that was run by 563 00:28:52,359 --> 00:28:56,160 a group of therapists who work with survivors of trauma 564 00:28:56,559 --> 00:29:01,119 and survivors of abuse, really just anybody who has's undergone 565 00:29:01,400 --> 00:29:04,640 a trauma of some variety, and they offered a lot 566 00:29:04,680 --> 00:29:09,640 of really excellent resources to connect people to the places 567 00:29:09,640 --> 00:29:11,400 where they needed to be to get the help that 568 00:29:11,440 --> 00:29:15,079 they needed. Like everybody this year, they had some variety 569 00:29:15,119 --> 00:29:18,400 of merch so they had stickers and T shirts and 570 00:29:18,720 --> 00:29:20,599 I actually wish that I had bought one of their 571 00:29:20,640 --> 00:29:23,200 T shirts because it meant a lot to me what 572 00:29:23,359 --> 00:29:25,599 they had put on it. But they had a really 573 00:29:25,759 --> 00:29:28,480 beautiful deep purple T shirt, which is my favorite color, 574 00:29:28,759 --> 00:29:31,240 and it has a silhouette of a woman on it 575 00:29:31,279 --> 00:29:34,799 and she's surrounded by stars and it says, dear survivor, 576 00:29:35,039 --> 00:29:37,440 you are not defined by the abuse you endured. 577 00:29:37,680 --> 00:29:40,839 Speaker 4: You are not alone. We believe you. And that made 578 00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:41,680 me cry. 579 00:29:42,559 --> 00:29:45,759 Speaker 5: And then the person who was running the booth, she 580 00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:47,799 and her partner were just given out hugs left and 581 00:29:47,880 --> 00:29:50,759 right to anybody who needed it, especially anybody who said 582 00:29:50,799 --> 00:29:54,039 I've gone through this. I think that it's really important 583 00:29:54,079 --> 00:29:56,720 for crime con moving forward, and this is something we 584 00:29:56,759 --> 00:29:59,720 want to suggest for panels, for us moving forward, to 585 00:29:59,759 --> 00:30:02,200 talk about what happens when you come out on the 586 00:30:02,240 --> 00:30:05,119 other side of trauma, when the worst has happened to you, 587 00:30:05,160 --> 00:30:08,279 when you've lost someone to violence, or when you yourself 588 00:30:08,319 --> 00:30:11,319 have been the subject of violence or abuse or whatever. 589 00:30:11,799 --> 00:30:14,319 How do you heal because a lot of times we 590 00:30:14,359 --> 00:30:17,559 don't tell that side of the story. We tell, here's 591 00:30:17,599 --> 00:30:20,160 this awful thing that happened, and they caught the person 592 00:30:20,240 --> 00:30:23,799 the end, but you don't get into anything beyond the 593 00:30:23,839 --> 00:30:26,720 messy middle. And there is so much more beyond that, 594 00:30:27,039 --> 00:30:29,640 because once you have undergone a trauma, now you live 595 00:30:29,680 --> 00:30:31,279 with it for the rest of your life, as you 596 00:30:31,359 --> 00:30:34,160 well know, Bill, and so I would encourage crime con 597 00:30:34,240 --> 00:30:36,079 and again, this is something we're going to try to 598 00:30:36,160 --> 00:30:38,640 encourage them to do, to focus give a little bit 599 00:30:38,680 --> 00:30:42,160 more attention to the impacts on victims. I loved that 600 00:30:42,319 --> 00:30:44,799 NCVC did a series of. 601 00:30:44,799 --> 00:30:46,279 Speaker 4: Victims impact statements. 602 00:30:46,799 --> 00:30:49,200 Speaker 5: I thought that was very powerful, and I wish that 603 00:30:49,279 --> 00:30:51,359 you had taken them up on the offer to do 604 00:30:51,400 --> 00:30:52,640 a victim's impact statement. 605 00:30:52,839 --> 00:30:58,720 Speaker 2: Okay, So that NCBC, for those of you that are 606 00:30:58,759 --> 00:31:01,960 not familiar, is the National Center for Victims of Crime. 607 00:31:02,480 --> 00:31:04,160 Speaker 4: Yes, and they're wonderful. 608 00:31:04,359 --> 00:31:07,599 Speaker 2: They are wonderful, and our friend Renee Williams is the 609 00:31:07,640 --> 00:31:13,359 CEO of NCVC. That was my second most moving panel. 610 00:31:13,880 --> 00:31:17,680 They actually had asked me if I wanted to participate, 611 00:31:17,799 --> 00:31:21,559 and I said no, I'll explain why. But I told 612 00:31:21,559 --> 00:31:24,559 them I would be there to show my support. Of course, 613 00:31:25,759 --> 00:31:28,000 turns out they didn't need me to show my support 614 00:31:28,279 --> 00:31:30,960 because there were hundreds of other people in the ballroom. 615 00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:31,720 Speaker 4: Yeah. 616 00:31:32,000 --> 00:31:39,640 Speaker 2: What it was a group of survivors giving victims impact statements. Now, 617 00:31:39,880 --> 00:31:43,799 there was something very interesting about it. When Renee asked 618 00:31:43,799 --> 00:31:47,480 me if I would participate, I had said, my sister 619 00:31:47,599 --> 00:31:51,559 Kathy and her girlfriend of Beckadowski's case is not solved yet. 620 00:31:51,880 --> 00:31:54,119 Of course, as listeners not, it's part of the Colonial 621 00:31:54,160 --> 00:31:56,799 Parkray murders, and we have a partial solve in the 622 00:31:57,000 --> 00:32:00,920 Robin Edwards and David Knobling part of the Colonial Parkway murders. 623 00:32:00,920 --> 00:32:03,799 And then of course that also ties into Teresa Lynn 624 00:32:03,839 --> 00:32:07,440 spaw Howell who was murdered in nineteen eighty nine, also 625 00:32:07,680 --> 00:32:11,240 in Virginia and Hampton together with the Hampton Police Department. 626 00:32:11,359 --> 00:32:15,799 They identified Alan Wade Wilmer Senior, a name that's very 627 00:32:15,799 --> 00:32:19,039 familiar to our listeners, as being linked to those three murders. 628 00:32:19,480 --> 00:32:22,480 The rest of the Colonial Parkway murders are not solved. 629 00:32:23,039 --> 00:32:25,839 So I had said to Renee, I really appreciate the offer. 630 00:32:26,119 --> 00:32:29,400 I'm thinking that since Kathy and Becky's case hasn't been solved, 631 00:32:29,480 --> 00:32:32,559 I'm not sure I'm really the appropriate person to give 632 00:32:32,559 --> 00:32:35,880 a victim's impact statement. She said, come to the panel 633 00:32:35,960 --> 00:32:38,400 and see what you think. So, as it turns out, 634 00:32:38,599 --> 00:32:40,759 a number of the people that spoke, I think five 635 00:32:40,880 --> 00:32:46,400 different survivors spoke, and first of all, they were powerful speech. 636 00:32:46,680 --> 00:32:49,160 And as it turns out, and this is something that 637 00:32:49,160 --> 00:32:53,200 Renee feels strongly about, your case doesn't have to be 638 00:32:53,440 --> 00:32:58,440 solved for you to speak about its impact on you 639 00:32:58,519 --> 00:33:03,720 and your life. I was really inspired by these people. 640 00:33:04,279 --> 00:33:06,920 Some of their cases are solved, some of the cases 641 00:33:06,920 --> 00:33:08,960 are unsolved, and as a matter of fact, in one 642 00:33:09,039 --> 00:33:11,839 or two examples, just based on what I heard and 643 00:33:11,839 --> 00:33:14,920 then chatting with them one on one afterwards, I'm not 644 00:33:14,960 --> 00:33:17,359 sure some of those cases are ever going to be solved. 645 00:33:17,920 --> 00:33:23,079 This afforded those individuals an opportunity to speak publicly about 646 00:33:23,240 --> 00:33:28,720 their loss, and man, it was very moving. There were 647 00:33:28,720 --> 00:33:33,640 a lot of tears, and sometimes the people speaking family members, 648 00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:38,000 they struggled themselves, but it was also cathartic by the 649 00:33:38,119 --> 00:33:40,880 end of it all, and you felt good listening and 650 00:33:40,920 --> 00:33:45,400 supporting these people, but also giving them the opportunity to 651 00:33:45,480 --> 00:33:48,480 tell their stories that they might not have ever been 652 00:33:48,519 --> 00:33:53,359 able to tell. It was beautiful, it was sad, It 653 00:33:53,440 --> 00:33:59,000 was difficult in spots, but it was an incredible experience 654 00:34:00,200 --> 00:34:02,960 to convey to Renee the next time we talked to 655 00:34:02,960 --> 00:34:06,000 her that I would love to do that and at 656 00:34:06,119 --> 00:34:08,199 next year's Crime Con and we'll tell you more about 657 00:34:08,239 --> 00:34:11,400 Crime Con twenty twenty six in a minute. It was 658 00:34:11,719 --> 00:34:15,519 so beautiful and actually having had a chance to sit 659 00:34:15,559 --> 00:34:19,119 through it, it's only an hour long, but man, it 660 00:34:19,159 --> 00:34:22,599 made me determined to want to participate next year because 661 00:34:22,639 --> 00:34:25,360 I thought it was so beautifully done. And then I 662 00:34:25,400 --> 00:34:27,000 did have a chance to talk to a couple of 663 00:34:27,000 --> 00:34:30,199 the family members afterwards, and I think they got a 664 00:34:30,239 --> 00:34:31,000 lot out of it. 665 00:34:31,320 --> 00:34:34,119 Speaker 5: I think that one of the many things that I 666 00:34:34,159 --> 00:34:37,920 have learned through my own journey on the therapy train 667 00:34:38,519 --> 00:34:41,239 is that there is a lot of power in being 668 00:34:41,280 --> 00:34:44,480 able to tell your story in your own voice, and 669 00:34:44,840 --> 00:34:47,760 a lot of times you will not have the ability 670 00:34:47,880 --> 00:34:51,280 to take the trauma and make it yours and own 671 00:34:51,320 --> 00:34:54,280 it until you are able to tell the story. And 672 00:34:54,440 --> 00:34:57,599 I think that's why the criminal justice system allows for 673 00:34:57,679 --> 00:34:59,800 victims impact statements, and I think that is one of 674 00:34:59,840 --> 00:35:03,760 the best things about our criminal justice system. If you 675 00:35:03,840 --> 00:35:07,360 watch the victim's impact statements for the Idaho for families, 676 00:35:07,360 --> 00:35:10,039 for example, you could tell that every single one of 677 00:35:10,079 --> 00:35:14,159 them they struggled, but they all got something out of it, 678 00:35:14,440 --> 00:35:16,280 whatever they needed to get out of it. If they 679 00:35:16,320 --> 00:35:19,440 needed to curse Brian Coburger, they cursed him. If they 680 00:35:19,480 --> 00:35:22,199 needed to forgive him, they forgave him. And if they 681 00:35:22,280 --> 00:35:24,199 just needed to be able to face him, they were 682 00:35:24,239 --> 00:35:26,679 able to do that too. And I think that the 683 00:35:26,760 --> 00:35:31,199 victim's impact statement process is so important. It's something that 684 00:35:31,280 --> 00:35:33,880 I would say anybody who's been touched by crime at all, 685 00:35:34,159 --> 00:35:36,280 it's a great idea. Just try to sit down and 686 00:35:36,320 --> 00:35:38,960 write it as an exercise. Even if you never read it, 687 00:35:39,039 --> 00:35:41,400 even if you never perform it, even if you only 688 00:35:41,679 --> 00:35:44,719 ever do it in your own room, write it because 689 00:35:44,760 --> 00:35:47,960 it does help you to own it and move past it. 690 00:35:48,280 --> 00:35:52,159 Speaker 2: And speaking of incredible survivors, to have a chance to 691 00:35:52,159 --> 00:35:55,840 spend time with Jane Carson Sandler, for example. Some of 692 00:35:55,840 --> 00:35:59,440 you may remember when the Golden State Killer case finally 693 00:35:59,480 --> 00:36:03,360 broke it. Gosh, that's gotta be like six years ago now, yeah, five. 694 00:36:03,880 --> 00:36:07,159 Jane Carson Sandler was one of the people that spoke 695 00:36:07,400 --> 00:36:11,920 to de Angelo and was able to really put in 696 00:36:12,039 --> 00:36:17,239 perspective what her experience and recovery have been like. And 697 00:36:17,280 --> 00:36:21,360 she's such an amazing person. She is and she is. 698 00:36:21,519 --> 00:36:24,719 It was so great to have some time to spend 699 00:36:24,760 --> 00:36:26,159 with her. She's an inspiration. 700 00:36:27,039 --> 00:36:30,679 Speaker 4: Yeah. I told Jane that one of the things. 701 00:36:30,480 --> 00:36:33,320 Speaker 5: That I most appreciate about her, and I gave her 702 00:36:33,440 --> 00:36:37,039 one of these beaded bracelets that I've been making to sell. 703 00:36:37,119 --> 00:36:39,719 I gave her one that said survivor because she is. 704 00:36:40,199 --> 00:36:42,199 And I said, Jane, one of the things that has 705 00:36:42,280 --> 00:36:46,639 helped me most in my own journey is when I 706 00:36:46,719 --> 00:36:50,079 was able to watch you give your victim's impact statement 707 00:36:50,239 --> 00:36:53,679 at the GSK sentencing and I said, I said, I 708 00:36:53,719 --> 00:36:56,519 love the fact that you leaned over and told him 709 00:36:56,519 --> 00:36:57,599 to write in health. 710 00:36:58,159 --> 00:36:59,960 Speaker 4: And she laughed a little. 711 00:36:59,719 --> 00:37:03,400 Speaker 5: Bit, and she said three quarters of me didn't want 712 00:37:03,440 --> 00:37:03,920 to say that. 713 00:37:03,960 --> 00:37:06,280 Speaker 4: Three quarters of me said, you should be good. 714 00:37:06,639 --> 00:37:09,119 Speaker 5: You should not say that, she said, But the quarter 715 00:37:09,159 --> 00:37:11,000 of me that wanted to tell him to rotten hell 716 00:37:11,119 --> 00:37:12,960 for what he'd done. One out, and I said, it 717 00:37:13,039 --> 00:37:14,960 was the quarter that should have one out. 718 00:37:15,039 --> 00:37:15,239 Speaker 2: Jack. 719 00:37:15,400 --> 00:37:17,559 Speaker 5: You should have said it, and I'm glad that you did. 720 00:37:18,079 --> 00:37:21,320 She is powerful. She is so moving and even when 721 00:37:21,360 --> 00:37:23,920 she's not speaking. She comes to crime Con every year 722 00:37:24,000 --> 00:37:27,159 and she hangs out, she meets people. She is the 723 00:37:27,239 --> 00:37:32,400 epitome of what it means to survive and still thrive afterwards. 724 00:37:32,400 --> 00:37:35,639 And she's obviously, like very comfortable now in her own 725 00:37:35,719 --> 00:37:40,000 role talking about it. She's definitely processed it, and she 726 00:37:40,159 --> 00:37:42,239 is just a delight to talk to. And I'm so 727 00:37:42,480 --> 00:37:45,719 proud to know her, someone who has overcome so much 728 00:37:45,760 --> 00:37:48,719 and is still so strong and cheerful, because she's very 729 00:37:48,760 --> 00:37:52,599 sunny and she's very optimistic, and she's very sweet. She's 730 00:37:52,599 --> 00:37:55,280 been sending me funny cat videos for the last three 731 00:37:55,360 --> 00:37:57,360 days because she knows I'm having a. 732 00:37:57,320 --> 00:38:02,159 Speaker 4: Hard time getting reintegrated back at school. She is absolutely terrific. 733 00:38:02,400 --> 00:38:04,679 Speaker 5: She's another one of those wonderful crime con people that 734 00:38:04,719 --> 00:38:06,440 I'm glad I get to see them every year. 735 00:38:06,840 --> 00:38:10,360 Speaker 2: No, absolutely, And we saw tons of people many film 736 00:38:10,360 --> 00:38:14,239 have appeared on Mindover Murder, a lot of past guests, 737 00:38:14,639 --> 00:38:16,559 and then we also talked to a lot of people 738 00:38:16,599 --> 00:38:18,960 with and we both turned to one another and said 739 00:38:19,400 --> 00:38:23,159 she'd be great for an upcoming episode. So we made 740 00:38:23,159 --> 00:38:27,039 some incredible connections and we're looking forward to talking with 741 00:38:27,719 --> 00:38:30,760 any number of these people, whether it's again with more 742 00:38:30,880 --> 00:38:34,119 news or it's people that are new to Mind over 743 00:38:34,199 --> 00:38:36,039 Murder that we think you're going to get a big 744 00:38:36,159 --> 00:38:39,800 kick out of. There were so many fantastic people there. 745 00:38:40,280 --> 00:38:43,440 Just so everybody's clear on this. I know we talk 746 00:38:43,679 --> 00:38:47,719 very excitedly about crime. Come, no one's paying us to 747 00:38:47,800 --> 00:38:52,760 say nice things about Yeah, seriously, we actually pay a 748 00:38:52,800 --> 00:38:55,719 significant amount of money and through the help of generous 749 00:38:55,760 --> 00:39:00,480 folks like yourselves, that's helped offset the expenses involved. It 750 00:39:00,559 --> 00:39:04,719 costs two thousand dollars per person to a ten when 751 00:39:04,800 --> 00:39:10,719 you're talking about hotels, transportation, airfare, the cost of the 752 00:39:10,840 --> 00:39:13,519 tickets for crime con. So I want to be for 753 00:39:13,920 --> 00:39:16,480 food all the rest of it. Yeah, Yeah, I want 754 00:39:16,480 --> 00:39:19,079 to be clear here. Crime CON's not paying us to 755 00:39:19,119 --> 00:39:22,800 say nice things about crime, But what a great experience. 756 00:39:23,440 --> 00:39:27,800 We should steer the conversation towards next year's crime con. 757 00:39:28,280 --> 00:39:31,360 So we have had crime Con twenty twenty six coming up. 758 00:39:31,960 --> 00:39:35,559 Speaker 5: Yeah, it's they're on this cycle where they do a 759 00:39:35,639 --> 00:39:39,960 crime con in September and then they do it again 760 00:39:40,039 --> 00:39:42,400 eight months later in May, and then they do a 761 00:39:42,519 --> 00:39:45,440 long wait until the next September. So this is one 762 00:39:45,480 --> 00:39:48,119 of those weird circumstances where I'm going to get hit 763 00:39:48,159 --> 00:39:51,400 with two crime cons in the same school year, September 764 00:39:51,760 --> 00:39:54,519 for the one and then May for the other. So 765 00:39:54,639 --> 00:39:57,239 eight months from now, in May of twenty twenty six, 766 00:39:57,519 --> 00:40:00,800 we will be in Las Vegas at Caesar Palace for 767 00:40:00,880 --> 00:40:03,440 Crime Con. That is I think going to be a 768 00:40:03,480 --> 00:40:06,000 lot of fun. I know that Bill hates Vegas with 769 00:40:06,000 --> 00:40:07,320 a burning, fiery passion. 770 00:40:07,800 --> 00:40:08,800 Speaker 4: I am not over the. 771 00:40:08,719 --> 00:40:11,360 Speaker 5: Novelty of Vegas yet, so I'm looking forward to it, 772 00:40:11,440 --> 00:40:13,360 especially because I didn't get to do the things I 773 00:40:13,400 --> 00:40:16,199 wanted to do last time in its entirety, Like I 774 00:40:16,239 --> 00:40:18,199 didn't get to go to New York and Circus, and 775 00:40:18,239 --> 00:40:20,360 I want to do both. I have roller coasters I 776 00:40:20,400 --> 00:40:22,119 want to ride, I have things I want to do. 777 00:40:22,280 --> 00:40:25,280 I'm very excited and looking forward to it. Bill's just 778 00:40:25,360 --> 00:40:26,280 kind of shaking his head. 779 00:40:27,400 --> 00:40:30,559 Speaker 2: Let me explain in my defense, I used to have 780 00:40:30,599 --> 00:40:34,800 to go to the consumer Electronics show when I was 781 00:40:34,840 --> 00:40:38,559 working in the what was then called the hi fi industry, 782 00:40:39,119 --> 00:40:43,199 Consumer God consumer Electronics, and so I would go to 783 00:40:43,239 --> 00:40:46,960 the Consumer Electronics Show and it was in Vegas every winter. 784 00:40:47,679 --> 00:40:50,519 I just got tired of Las Vegas and I'm not 785 00:40:50,599 --> 00:40:52,960 a big drinker. I'm not a gambler, and there's not 786 00:40:53,079 --> 00:40:56,639 enough time to go to hear music. It's just it's 787 00:40:57,119 --> 00:41:00,400 not my favorite. And last time we were there with 788 00:41:00,559 --> 00:41:03,320 crime kind a couple of years ago. That was also 789 00:41:03,480 --> 00:41:06,480 the same time as the NFL draft. Yeah, that was 790 00:41:06,559 --> 00:41:09,800 hysteric going on, but it was just like there were 791 00:41:09,920 --> 00:41:14,599 a lot of people there. People extremely crowded and noisy 792 00:41:14,920 --> 00:41:18,280 and difficult to sleep. Yeah, I'm sure it would be 793 00:41:18,280 --> 00:41:19,159 better this time. 794 00:41:19,519 --> 00:41:19,960 Speaker 4: I would say. 795 00:41:20,000 --> 00:41:22,400 Speaker 5: Mccarryan Airport has to be one of the saddest airports 796 00:41:22,400 --> 00:41:25,760 I've ever been to, because you've got people either totally 797 00:41:25,840 --> 00:41:29,519 hungover or still drunk, hanging out waiting for their planes, 798 00:41:29,920 --> 00:41:32,039 and then people who are just glued to the slot 799 00:41:32,079 --> 00:41:33,480 machines and will not leave. 800 00:41:33,920 --> 00:41:37,760 Speaker 2: It's amazing how many different places. Las Vegas manages to 801 00:41:37,920 --> 00:41:39,440 jam in slot machines. 802 00:41:40,119 --> 00:41:42,960 Speaker 5: Also shout out to the Denver Airport man. They were 803 00:41:43,199 --> 00:41:47,039 incredibly efficient on my way out of town. It was 804 00:41:47,320 --> 00:41:49,880 ten minutes from dropping me off at the curb to 805 00:41:49,920 --> 00:41:52,159 getting through security and going to my gate. They are 806 00:41:52,199 --> 00:41:55,159 so efficient and for the first time in many years, 807 00:41:55,159 --> 00:41:57,840 I did not have to take off my shoes at TSA. 808 00:41:58,320 --> 00:41:59,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, that was a step in the right direction. 809 00:42:01,159 --> 00:42:01,440 Speaker 4: I think. 810 00:42:01,480 --> 00:42:04,400 Speaker 5: My favorite story from the trains running from terminal to 811 00:42:04,480 --> 00:42:07,960 terminal is on my way to luggage claim to pick 812 00:42:08,039 --> 00:42:10,880 up my luggage on the way in to Denver on Thursday, 813 00:42:11,039 --> 00:42:13,280 somebody had not stepped all the way into the train 814 00:42:13,360 --> 00:42:14,039 far enough. 815 00:42:13,840 --> 00:42:14,880 Speaker 4: For the doors to close. 816 00:42:14,920 --> 00:42:15,360 Speaker 2: Oh yeah. 817 00:42:15,400 --> 00:42:18,760 Speaker 4: They have a very passive, aggressive announcement that I heard 818 00:42:18,800 --> 00:42:23,360 that you are the reason we are inconveniencing other people. 819 00:42:23,920 --> 00:42:25,639 Please step inside the doors. 820 00:42:26,400 --> 00:42:29,679 Speaker 2: It was Yes, she was very bossy and had a 821 00:42:29,840 --> 00:42:33,679 Karen like quality to her voice, and she was really 822 00:42:34,119 --> 00:42:37,840 letting them have it. They are the problem. That's why 823 00:42:37,880 --> 00:42:41,079 this problem the brain is not closing or moving, and 824 00:42:41,119 --> 00:42:43,000 it's your fault. 825 00:42:43,280 --> 00:42:44,239 Speaker 4: It was so funny. 826 00:42:44,239 --> 00:42:47,679 Speaker 5: Everybody in the car burst out laughing when they see 827 00:42:47,719 --> 00:42:50,800 a little voice came through the thing like you are 828 00:42:50,840 --> 00:42:52,360 inconveniencing everybody. 829 00:42:52,599 --> 00:42:54,559 Speaker 2: Yeah, this is your fault. 830 00:42:55,440 --> 00:42:55,880 Speaker 4: I'm going to. 831 00:42:55,880 --> 00:42:59,920 Speaker 5: Start using that with my eleventh graders. You are inconveniencing everybody. 832 00:43:00,599 --> 00:43:01,760 Speaker 4: Just see what that does. 833 00:43:02,280 --> 00:43:05,519 Speaker 2: So let's talk dates. If you've ever thought about going 834 00:43:05,559 --> 00:43:07,960 to crime con, we urge you to at least think 835 00:43:08,000 --> 00:43:11,760 about it. A lot of fun and you make a 836 00:43:11,840 --> 00:43:15,199 connection with people that are into something that you're into, 837 00:43:15,360 --> 00:43:18,159 and you meet a lot of fantastic people. It's a 838 00:43:18,159 --> 00:43:23,280 great experience. So we're headed to Caesar's Palace May twenty 839 00:43:23,400 --> 00:43:28,519 ninth through thirty first in Las Vegas, Nevada. We're really 840 00:43:28,519 --> 00:43:29,400 looking forward to it. 841 00:43:29,840 --> 00:43:32,559 Speaker 5: We definitely have some ideas for panels that we're going 842 00:43:32,639 --> 00:43:34,679 to pitch because I think there's a couple of different 843 00:43:34,679 --> 00:43:36,239 things that we could talk about that we would love 844 00:43:36,239 --> 00:43:38,320 to be able to share. We've got a couple of 845 00:43:38,360 --> 00:43:41,840 different things in the works. Stay tuned for developments here 846 00:43:42,079 --> 00:43:43,840 about things that we're going to do new, better and 847 00:43:43,880 --> 00:43:47,440 different to help grow the podcast a little bit more 848 00:43:47,559 --> 00:43:49,679 while still bringing you the same content that you have 849 00:43:49,800 --> 00:43:52,559 come to know and love. That is going to do 850 00:43:52,599 --> 00:43:56,239 it for this episode of Mind Ever Murder, Thank you 851 00:43:56,280 --> 00:43:59,400 so much for listening. We'll see you next time. 852 00:44:09,360 --> 00:44:12,840 Speaker 1: Mind Over Murder is a production of Absolute Zero and 853 00:44:12,960 --> 00:44:14,400 Another Dog Productions. 854 00:44:14,960 --> 00:44:18,280 Speaker 2: Our executive producers are Bill Thomas and Kristin Dilley. 855 00:44:18,639 --> 00:44:21,039 Speaker 1: Our logo art is by Pamela Arnois. 856 00:44:21,679 --> 00:44:23,719 Speaker 2: Our theme music is by Kevin McLoud. 857 00:44:24,280 --> 00:44:28,199 Speaker 1: Mind Over Murder is distributed in partnership with crawl Space Media. 858 00:44:28,960 --> 00:44:32,119 Speaker 2: You can follow us on Facebook, Twitter, or Instagram. 859 00:44:32,320 --> 00:44:34,920 Speaker 1: You can also follow our page on the Colonial Parkway 860 00:44:35,000 --> 00:44:36,880 Murders on Facebook. 861 00:44:36,599 --> 00:44:39,639 Speaker 2: And finally, you can follow Bill Thomas on Twitter at 862 00:44:39,639 --> 00:44:41,280 Bill Thomas. Five six. 863 00:44:41,760 --> 00:45:08,159 Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to mind Over Murder.