WEBVTT

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<v Speaker 1>We're getting close. We have at least one and maybe

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<v Speaker 1>both presidential candidates looking to adopt bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies

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<v Speaker 1>as a way to encourage innovation because they know it's happening.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, the real killer is all this innovation is happening,

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<v Speaker 1>and there are Americans. Many Americans are coming up with

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<v Speaker 1>these innovative things, and then they geo fence the US,

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<v Speaker 1>in effect not allowing anybody in the US to try

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<v Speaker 1>their product. And all those great products are happening outside

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<v Speaker 1>the US, and all those customers are able to innovate

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<v Speaker 1>from that new platform, and we're not because there's this

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<v Speaker 1>big dark cloud that is the sec today.

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<v Speaker 2>This content is brought to you by bitco, which is

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<v Speaker 2>one of the top crypto custodians in the crypto industry.

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<v Speaker 2>Bitco works with many big companies and brands such as

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<v Speaker 2>Pantera Capital, Bitstamp, and bitcoin Ira. Nike also selected Bitco

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<v Speaker 2>to power its wallets for its NFTs and Bitco has

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<v Speaker 2>many great services such as hot wallets, custodial wallets, self

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<v Speaker 2>managed cold wallets, and NFT wallets. Many institutions trust Bitco

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<v Speaker 2>with its top level security and incredible services such as

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<v Speaker 2>being able to deploy your capital wallet's in custody, which

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<v Speaker 2>includes lending, borrowing, trading, staking, DeFi access and more. If

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<v Speaker 2>you'd like to learn more about bitco, please visit bitgo

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<v Speaker 2>dot com link in the description. Welcome into the Thinking

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<v Speaker 2>Crypto Podcast. I'm your host, Tony Edward and with me

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<v Speaker 2>is Tim Draper, who's a legendary investor, the founder of DFJ,

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<v Speaker 2>Draper University, Draper Venture Network, and Draper Associates. Tim was

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<v Speaker 2>an investor in many different companies such as Tesla, Skype, SpaceX, Twitch, Robinhood, Coinbase,

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<v Speaker 2>and many others, and he also wrote a book, How

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<v Speaker 2>to Be the Startup Hero.

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<v Speaker 1>Tim.

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<v Speaker 2>It's an honor to have you on the podcast, Tony.

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<v Speaker 1>Thank you for having me. I'm looking forward to it

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<v Speaker 1>should be fine.

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<v Speaker 2>So, Tim, you know, I've seen many of your interviews

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<v Speaker 2>and I want to take a bit of a different

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<v Speaker 2>angle because I want to get to know a bit

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<v Speaker 2>about you and your journey to investment. You know, where

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<v Speaker 2>were you born and what was your childhood like and

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<v Speaker 2>what did you want to be when you were growing up.

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<v Speaker 1>I was born in Highland Park, Illinois, at the center

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<v Speaker 1>of the universe. When I was growing up, I wanted

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<v Speaker 1>to be a baseball player. I collected baseball cards. That's

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<v Speaker 1>where I learned math, or some of my math teachers

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<v Speaker 1>taught me a lot of it. And then baseball cards

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<v Speaker 1>got me thinking about averages, and that was the beginning

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<v Speaker 1>of going into complex math. And I was mostly into sports,

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<v Speaker 1>but I also was really I had a real penchant

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<v Speaker 1>for math. And I got bumped up from second to

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<v Speaker 1>third grade, and third to fifth grade, and fifth to

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<v Speaker 1>eighth grade, and then I was in eighth grade math

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<v Speaker 1>for about four years in a row. They didn't have

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<v Speaker 1>any other math. And then I went away to high school.

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<v Speaker 1>I went to Andover and turns out Andovers not an

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<v Speaker 1>accredited high school, but it's the number one high school

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<v Speaker 1>in the world, so it makes you think about the

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<v Speaker 1>accreditation in a new way. And then I loved Andover.

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<v Speaker 1>I then flew home to Stanford. I lived near Stanford,

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<v Speaker 1>and I went to Stanford studied electrical engineering. I was

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<v Speaker 1>on their football team for a couple of years. Coach Walsh.

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<v Speaker 1>Bill Walsh was my coach, who was a big forty

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<v Speaker 1>nine er coach that brought five Super Bowls to the

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<v Speaker 1>forty nine ers. Oh yeah. I studied electrical engineering and

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<v Speaker 1>physics and creative writing. So it was kind of an

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<v Speaker 1>interesting combination of things that I learned. I was the

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<v Speaker 1>I was a student senator. Well, I was at Stanford

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<v Speaker 1>I and I was going to be a physics major.

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<v Speaker 1>It was it's where my mind was headed. But my

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<v Speaker 1>dad said, yeah, you get a good job in physics

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<v Speaker 1>if you get a PhD. And I was thinking, no,

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<v Speaker 1>it's time to get out and doing something, a job

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<v Speaker 1>and whatever, and he said, but if you're electrical engineering major,

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<v Speaker 1>there are a lot of jobs for you. And so

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<v Speaker 1>he guided me in the right direction. And then I

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<v Speaker 1>worked for Hewlett Packard for a couple of years and

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<v Speaker 1>created something called Stamford the Game, which was a board

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<v Speaker 1>game which was great also great fun. And then I

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<v Speaker 1>went to Harvard Business School and just got back from

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<v Speaker 1>the reunion for Harvard and worked as the assistant of

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<v Speaker 1>the president of Apollo Computer while I was there, and

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<v Speaker 1>Apollo was competed with Sun Microsystems at the time, and

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<v Speaker 1>now it's all a part of Microsoft. Everything is a

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<v Speaker 1>part of Microsoft, all the all of those advanced computers.

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<v Speaker 1>And then and then when I got out of business school,

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<v Speaker 1>I worked for Alex Brown, the investment bank for a year,

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<v Speaker 1>and after a year, I felt like I was ready

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<v Speaker 1>to go create a venture capital business on my own.

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<v Speaker 1>And I'm not. I am always willing to just jump

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<v Speaker 1>in and see how it goes. And so I did that.

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<v Speaker 1>For I took over an SBIIC that my dad had.

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<v Speaker 1>My grandfather was the first Silicon Valley venture capitalist. My

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<v Speaker 1>dad was a pioneer venture capital. I took over an

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<v Speaker 1>sbi C that my dad had, small business investment company

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<v Speaker 1>that had three or four companies in it. They were

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<v Speaker 1>all private, nobody knew what they were worth. BA valued

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<v Speaker 1>them at two million dollars. I was able to borrow

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<v Speaker 1>six million from the SBA on that two million of

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<v Speaker 1>private companies and get into business. And that's how I

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<v Speaker 1>built my record, and that's how I got started. And

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<v Speaker 1>after three years it looked like I had lost all

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<v Speaker 1>the money. And then the IPO window opened up and

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<v Speaker 1>I had five IPOs al and one was Parametric Technology

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<v Speaker 1>and still to this day, Parametric, I think is the

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<v Speaker 1>largest software company in the New England area. And then

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<v Speaker 1>from there I just took it one step at a time.

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<v Speaker 1>Brought in a partner, John Fisher. We worked together on

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<v Speaker 1>a fund. Brought in another partner Steve Jervidson. We worked

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<v Speaker 1>together on a fund and then we kept growing and

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<v Speaker 1>growing and growing, and then we became kind of the

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<v Speaker 1>number one venture fund in the world in say two

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<v Speaker 1>thousand and three, after the boom and the but during

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<v Speaker 1>the boom we were number one, and after the bust

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<v Speaker 1>we were number one because I took us international and

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<v Speaker 1>that worked out very well. We did Baidu and Skype internationally.

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<v Speaker 1>And then after a number of years, I started to

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<v Speaker 1>get pretty rich myself personally, and so I was able

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<v Speaker 1>to spin out from DFJ and start my own business again.

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<v Speaker 1>So I did it again. And when I did that,

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<v Speaker 1>I had the freedom to do a lot of other things,

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<v Speaker 1>a lot more experimental things. Why commoner Nator had just started,

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<v Speaker 1>and I thought, wow, that's an interesting model and maybe

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<v Speaker 1>I should be doing something about that. I started Draper

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<v Speaker 1>University and that ended up. At first it was very

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<v Speaker 1>difficult and we had all sorts of problems, but it

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<v Speaker 1>got better and better and better, and now it's I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>it's by far than the place to go if you're

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<v Speaker 1>going to be a venture capitalist, I mean, if you're

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<v Speaker 1>going to be an entrepreneur. Because we've had I don't

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<v Speaker 1>know five thousand entrepreneurs through there. They've started about twelve

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<v Speaker 1>hundred companies and five or unicorns in about fifteen are

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<v Speaker 1>worth more than one hundred million dollars. And they all

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<v Speaker 1>started at Draper University. So that's been a huge success.

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<v Speaker 1>But it was you know, I didn't know what was

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<v Speaker 1>going to happen, and I just started it. I started

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<v Speaker 1>Meet the Drapers, which was a crowd funding where the

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<v Speaker 1>viewer could crowdfund a show where I interview entrepreneurs and

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<v Speaker 1>the winner goes to the next level. And that has

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<v Speaker 1>ended up. At first I could hardly get my mother

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<v Speaker 1>to watch, and now we have I think we have

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<v Speaker 1>I think we have two hundred million viewers. Wow, so

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<v Speaker 1>they're all over the world. It's a huge thing. We've

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<v Speaker 1>got to deal with TikTok now and and Draper Associates.

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<v Speaker 1>The venture Fund has done extraordinarily well, better than I

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<v Speaker 1>did with DFJ, and we we've done extraordinarily well, and

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<v Speaker 1>we have really embraced AI, not just as investors into AI,

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<v Speaker 1>but also as users of AI. It helps us with

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<v Speaker 1>doing diligence on our companies, doing diligence on those industries,

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<v Speaker 1>diligence on the individual entrepreneurs and and now we even

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<v Speaker 1>have you know, if you go to DRAPERTV Draper dot tv,

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<v Speaker 1>you can see our show, but you can also see

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<v Speaker 1>this thing Draper Decentralized, and that is my digital twin.

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<v Speaker 1>That is my fake. And I've read we've now done

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<v Speaker 1>more than fifty of these where the deep fake is

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<v Speaker 1>talking about one company or another of ours, and it's fascinating.

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<v Speaker 1>It's like I, I mean, generally I don't want to

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<v Speaker 1>even look in the mirror, but I love it because

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<v Speaker 1>it gives me that one minute view of what's going

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<v Speaker 1>on in each of those companies at that time, and

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<v Speaker 1>those are key events because they tend to be press.

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<v Speaker 1>Really is that I that my deep fake is reading?

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<v Speaker 1>So you know, we also have se or, which one

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<v Speaker 1>of our companies, that can detect if somebody is lying,

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<v Speaker 1>so we can wrin videos through that. And we have Otter,

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<v Speaker 1>which where we take videos and it transcribes all the

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<v Speaker 1>meetings that we have and we can look back and say, wait,

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<v Speaker 1>what was that company and how did they You know,

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<v Speaker 1>isn't there another company that does an artificial kidney? You know,

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<v Speaker 1>isn't there another company that is doing hyper speed and

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<v Speaker 1>rocketry or you know, all those things, and that has

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<v Speaker 1>been really exciting, and so AI has really captivated me.

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<v Speaker 1>During the time when I was leave, I had left

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<v Speaker 1>DFJ and I was starting Draper Associates well, starting to

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<v Speaker 1>super charge Rape Associates. I also had an opportunity to

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<v Speaker 1>buy a whole bunch of bitcoin, and I did at

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<v Speaker 1>a very cheap price, and then I lost it all

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<v Speaker 1>to the Mount Gox thing. I bought it at four dollars,

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<v Speaker 1>like forty thousand bitcoin four dollars, it's all gone to

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<v Speaker 1>Mount Gox or whatever. And then but I realized how

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<v Speaker 1>important bitcoin was going to be, and so I bought

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<v Speaker 1>a bunch from the US Marshall's office and that has

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<v Speaker 1>been a fantastic investment and it continues to be. I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm still a buyer of bitcoin, net buyer of bitcoin

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<v Speaker 1>because it really looks like it's something that will transform

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<v Speaker 1>the world. It's I mean, I know, every you know,

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<v Speaker 1>country leader is always very concerned about their own fiat currencies.

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<v Speaker 1>But bitcoin's just better currency. It's a better way to

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<v Speaker 1>store value, it's a better way to buy and sell.

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<v Speaker 1>It's easier to move from one place to another, so

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<v Speaker 1>there's less liquidity issues, and it's just you know, it's global,

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<v Speaker 1>it's open. Doesn't matter what happens within a country, you

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<v Speaker 1>can always use bitcoin. It's always acceptable. I just talked

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<v Speaker 1>to Propy, which is one of our companies, and they

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<v Speaker 1>have real estate. They're doing real estate on the blockchain,

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<v Speaker 1>and that includes doing title on the blockchain. And I

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<v Speaker 1>started to think about it, and it's like, now you

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<v Speaker 1>can have your own bank and you can keep your

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<v Speaker 1>own tithe in a decentralized, safe, verified way without dealing

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<v Speaker 1>with a central government, without dealing with you know, the

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<v Speaker 1>files of the county or whatever. This is a whole

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<v Speaker 1>new transformation this world that's opening up to all of us.

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<v Speaker 1>That's the decentralized world where everybody gets to participate and

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<v Speaker 1>you're not isolating certain people because they come from one

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<v Speaker 1>country or another. So long answer to a very short question.

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<v Speaker 2>No amazing, Tim, Thank you for sharing those details. And

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<v Speaker 2>you know, as you're talking about your journey and starting

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<v Speaker 2>different companies and so forth, you know, do you ever

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<v Speaker 2>look back and say, wow, man, I accomplish a lot

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<v Speaker 2>and what keeps you motivated to be in the investing

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<v Speaker 2>space and to think about these things versus going on

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<v Speaker 2>a yacht, are an island somewhere.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Yeah, if I go to the beach, I love it.

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<v Speaker 1>But you know, if I go for more than a week,

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<v Speaker 1>I feel like I have to tell the hotel how

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<v Speaker 1>to run their business. So you know, I work is

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<v Speaker 1>in me. I love work. I think it's a great thing.

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<v Speaker 1>And yes I do look back, but actually people help

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<v Speaker 1>me look back because people come up to me and say, hey,

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<v Speaker 1>I want to thank you. You put my son in business,

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<v Speaker 1>you build a you know, Draper University gave me a

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<v Speaker 1>total transformation for my life. I was on Meet the Drapers.

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<v Speaker 1>It was a fabulous thing. Those things come to me,

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<v Speaker 1>and what's great is that people will come to me

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<v Speaker 1>and go, wow, you know, somebody talked about you in Brazil,

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<v Speaker 1>and then they talked about you in Saudi, and then

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<v Speaker 1>they talked about you in Chicago, and then they and

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<v Speaker 1>I heard about you in all these different cities. You've

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<v Speaker 1>clearly done something. And I think just by grabbing this

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<v Speaker 1>one thing, which was to spread entrepreneurship and venture capital

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<v Speaker 1>around the world, I do. I do get to look

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<v Speaker 1>back and say, wow, almost everywhere in the world they

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<v Speaker 1>have venture capital, and almost everywhere in the world they

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<v Speaker 1>have entrepreneurs, and that was not true when I got started.

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<v Speaker 1>It was Silicon Valley in Root one twenty eight and

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<v Speaker 1>nobody else. And so now that has had a big

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<v Speaker 1>that that has made me feel very good. But there's

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<v Speaker 1>so much more to do, and I'm hitting my stride.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, Dad, everything's great, you know, and any I

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<v Speaker 1>can do little things that can have big impacts. So

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<v Speaker 1>work continues to be more and more fascinating as I

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<v Speaker 1>get older. I love it.

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<v Speaker 2>Going back to your journey with bitcoin, what was your

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<v Speaker 2>first discovery of that that someone tell you about it?

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<v Speaker 2>Did you see it in a form and when did

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<v Speaker 2>it click for you? What was your ahull moment?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, Joel Jarman mentioned that I should look into it,

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<v Speaker 1>and he was my associate at the time, and he

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<v Speaker 1>introduced me to Peter Vissin and Peter told me all

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<v Speaker 1>about it. And that was twenty ten, so very very

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<v Speaker 1>early bitcoin. Was it four dollars this year? Wow? Dollars

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<v Speaker 1>per bitcoin? And they started tell me about it and

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<v Speaker 1>I went, this is exactly what I thought was going

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<v Speaker 1>to happen. We were going to have digital money. And

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<v Speaker 1>they said, what do you mean, And I said, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>I talked to this guy in Korea who was from Korea,

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<v Speaker 1>who was talking about how half of the people in

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<v Speaker 1>Seoul were playing this game and I think it was

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<v Speaker 1>called Lineage and that game he paid real dollars for

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<v Speaker 1>a digital sword for his son for his birthday, and

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<v Speaker 1>I went what. And then I thought, oh, my god,

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<v Speaker 1>real money, digital products. And then I thought digital money.

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<v Speaker 1>And so I thought that eventually digital money would happen

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<v Speaker 1>and go game to game, but I think people just

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<v Speaker 1>did it within games, so that there was you know,

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<v Speaker 1>gold for Farmville and something else for some other game.

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<v Speaker 1>I thought those things would connect and they'd all be

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<v Speaker 1>a currency that we would all use, and that way

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<v Speaker 1>it would be game to game or you know, all

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<v Speaker 1>that trading would happen and we'd have multiple currencies that

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<v Speaker 1>we would all use in this virtual world. But then

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<v Speaker 1>bitcoin showed up. Something I wasn't thinking about at all

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<v Speaker 1>was the security of the money in game, because I

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<v Speaker 1>was thinking, oh, it's just play money in the game.

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<v Speaker 1>But when they came up with bitcoin, that the ability

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<v Speaker 1>to have a trusted third party that was all software,

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<v Speaker 1>that was a major breakthrough, and it jumped out at

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<v Speaker 1>me and I was intrigued enough to make an investment

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<v Speaker 1>in coin lab and in the bitcoin with Peter. But

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<v Speaker 1>it wasn't until I lost the bitcoin to melt Cox

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<v Speaker 1>and bitcoin only dropped a little bit in value on

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<v Speaker 1>that news that I knew that there were lots of uses,

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<v Speaker 1>and so I went and I dug into all these uses.

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<v Speaker 1>And it was like people who were unbanked or using

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<v Speaker 1>it to pay each other and build their own little economy.

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<v Speaker 1>People who were making money in the US were using

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<v Speaker 1>it to remit money to another country. People who ran

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<v Speaker 1>big businesses were using bitcoin to pay employees out there,

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<v Speaker 1>and you know, in lands where there were no banks.

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<v Speaker 1>So it was clearly going to improve the world economy.

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<v Speaker 1>And I thought, wow, that's really exciting. And then I

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<v Speaker 1>ran into this guy, Sebastian Serrano from Argentina, and he said,

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<v Speaker 1>my family has created a fortune three times in the

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<v Speaker 1>last thirty years, and every time we've lost it to

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<v Speaker 1>currency manipulation by the government. Bitcoin is our savior. Bitcoin

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<v Speaker 1>is this is going to save our business. We're going

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<v Speaker 1>to be able to build something of great value and

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<v Speaker 1>keep it. And that was where I knew that bitcoin

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<v Speaker 1>would be great store of value, but it would also

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<v Speaker 1>be a currency that at least that country, Argentina would

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<v Speaker 1>want to use for their economy. And then you know,

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<v Speaker 1>of course El Salvador followed, and then and then Panama

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<v Speaker 1>and Japan and Malta and Gibraltar, and they all made

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<v Speaker 1>bitcoin a national currency and it started a really you

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<v Speaker 1>know steam roll, and now bitcoin is actually challenging fiat currency.

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<v Speaker 1>People are saying, wait, why do I hold dollars? If

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<v Speaker 1>I can buy my food, clothing, and shelter all in bitcoin,

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00:22:52.759 --> 00:22:56.880
<v Speaker 1>dollars I know are going to depreciate in value. Even

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<v Speaker 1>if I'm I've got it in a you know, CD

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00:23:00.720 --> 00:23:06.000
<v Speaker 1>or whatever I put my money into, I'm still losing

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<v Speaker 1>it to inflation. If I hold, spend, and invest, and

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00:23:12.880 --> 00:23:16.880
<v Speaker 1>pay taxes all in bitcoin. First of all, the accounting

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<v Speaker 1>is easy because it's all done on the blockchain and

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<v Speaker 1>it's all honest. And second of all, it's a better way,

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<v Speaker 1>more efficient, better way to run your business. So eventually

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<v Speaker 1>we're going to get there. So that's where I'm going.

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<v Speaker 1>That's where I'm going. I believe the world is going.

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<v Speaker 1>And you know what, I think both Warren Buffett and

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<v Speaker 1>Jamie Diamond believe that too, and they're scared to death

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<v Speaker 1>and they're going, but I have all these dollars, and

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<v Speaker 1>when there's a run on the dollar, they're going to

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<v Speaker 1>be at the bank saying, get me my dollars out

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<v Speaker 1>and get them into bitcoin. I mean it will be

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<v Speaker 1>like I mean, you should have seen the panic on

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<v Speaker 1>people's face when Silicon Valley Bank stumbled yeah we had.

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<v Speaker 1>I had about fifteen companies call me and say, I

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<v Speaker 1>need emergency money to pay my payroll for the next

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<v Speaker 1>two weeks because all my money's in Silicon Valley Bank.

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<v Speaker 1>So after that, I said, Okay, any company we fund

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<v Speaker 1>your treasury has to have some of the money in

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<v Speaker 1>a big bank. And everybody goes, yeah, yeah, of course,

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<v Speaker 1>some of your money in a small bank. And they're

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<v Speaker 1>saying why, I say, because the US government can still

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<v Speaker 1>bail out a small bank, not a big bank. And

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<v Speaker 1>then some of your money in bitcoin. And they're saying

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<v Speaker 1>why why bitcoin? And I say, because if these banks

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<v Speaker 1>go out of business and small you are personally liable.

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<v Speaker 1>You and your border personally liable for payroll for your company.

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<v Speaker 1>And you might have a company with one hundred thousand

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<v Speaker 1>employees and you're personally liable for no matter what happens

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<v Speaker 1>to the banks, and so if you have bitcoin to

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<v Speaker 1>cover it, you're good. And I think that you know,

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<v Speaker 1>more and more women now have bitcoin wallets, and women

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<v Speaker 1>control about eighty five percent of retail spending. So when

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<v Speaker 1>the retailer recognizes that they can save two percent every

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<v Speaker 1>time somebody buys something in bitcoin, they're going to start

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<v Speaker 1>saying bitcoin accepted. And then at some point they're going

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<v Speaker 1>to say only bitcoin accepted. And that is the point

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<v Speaker 1>at which everybody's going to run to the bank and

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<v Speaker 1>try to get their dollars out, and they're all going

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<v Speaker 1>to go at once, and it's going to be chaos.

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<v Speaker 1>People who have bitcoin, who just thought ahead and bought

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<v Speaker 1>some bitcoin are going to be able to relax that

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<v Speaker 1>day and go okay, so the dollars are gone. I

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<v Speaker 1>had my dad gave me a million dollar note and

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<v Speaker 1>the million dollar note was a Confederate million dollars. Confederate money. Wow,

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<v Speaker 1>but the South. I said, oh great, what can I

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<v Speaker 1>spend it on it? And he said nothing, And I said,

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<v Speaker 1>what do you mean? He said, the South lost the war,

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<v Speaker 1>and so everybody wanted to They printed money. It was inflationary,

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<v Speaker 1>it was all this stuff. But the only dollars anybody

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<v Speaker 1>would take were the Union dollars because they won the war,

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<v Speaker 1>and so the Confederate money became worthless. The same thing

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<v Speaker 1>is happening now. It's happening slowly, but it's happening. We're

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<v Speaker 1>huge inflation in the dollar. It's getting to be worth

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<v Speaker 1>less and less in a shorter and shorter time. Meanwhile,

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<v Speaker 1>the purchases in power a bitcoin it's much higher relative

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<v Speaker 1>to the dollar. So you know, no wonder Warren Buffett's screaming,

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<v Speaker 1>yeah Jamie now and no wonder Jamie Diamond screaming. They're

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<v Speaker 1>controlling all the dollars. It's not going to go well

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<v Speaker 1>for them unless they unless they get on the boat.

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<v Speaker 2>So, Tim, what are your thoughts on what the future

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<v Speaker 2>of currency may look like in context of what you're saying.

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<v Speaker 2>Is it that they solve the fiat currency problem by

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<v Speaker 2>making it digital. Maybe a CBDC, but it's backed by goal,

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<v Speaker 2>it's going to be backed by bitcoin, Or to what

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<v Speaker 2>you're saying, we are going to a bigcoin standard. It's

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<v Speaker 2>not going to happen overnight, but maybe in fifty years

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<v Speaker 2>that is the case.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I think it's less than fifty years, but I

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<v Speaker 1>think it's ten. But I was optimistic on my last prediction,

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<v Speaker 1>so maybe it's more than five. But I have always

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<v Speaker 1>looked at stable coins as a bridge to bitcoin. I

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<v Speaker 1>think eventually we're all going to bitcoin, but stable coins

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<v Speaker 1>are a good bridge, and they're all based on the

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00:28:21.359 --> 00:28:26.279
<v Speaker 1>dollar or the dollar, euro, yen or the something. Right. Well,

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<v Speaker 1>when the dollar collapses and inflates out of business, so

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00:28:33.839 --> 00:28:42.160
<v Speaker 1>does the USDC and USDT, So you've got to I mean, sure,

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00:28:42.319 --> 00:28:46.079
<v Speaker 1>it's more efficient, it's a better way to move dollars around.

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<v Speaker 1>Those things are better. It's just better to hold. But

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<v Speaker 1>it's really a bridge to bitcoin, where you have a

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<v Speaker 1>currency where we know how many there are out there.

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<v Speaker 1>No government can go in there and start screwing around

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<v Speaker 1>with it and change the number of you know, nira

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<v Speaker 1>or pesos or whatever, just because they're the king of

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00:29:13.480 --> 00:29:22.519
<v Speaker 1>their land. So we're gonna this is coming, do you foresee?

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<v Speaker 2>Though, similar to what happened with gold. You remember the

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<v Speaker 2>United States had confiscated people's goal i know, bigcoin.

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<v Speaker 1>Due to these, they standardized on gold and then they

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<v Speaker 1>went uh oh yeah, And that was a good thing

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<v Speaker 1>because going first going on the gold standard was good,

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00:29:39.839 --> 00:29:43.240
<v Speaker 1>and then going off the gold standard was good because

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00:29:43.359 --> 00:29:46.240
<v Speaker 1>when you were on the gold standard, you knew exactly

401
00:29:46.319 --> 00:29:50.319
<v Speaker 1>what was in the currency, and going off the gold standard,

402
00:29:50.839 --> 00:29:56.839
<v Speaker 1>you allowed people to move more currency based on the

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00:29:56.920 --> 00:30:02.079
<v Speaker 1>full faith and credit of the American government. But now

404
00:30:03.079 --> 00:30:06.920
<v Speaker 1>what happens with bitcoin. You get the trust that you

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00:30:07.000 --> 00:30:11.519
<v Speaker 1>had with gold with bitcoin, and then you have the

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00:30:12.680 --> 00:30:20.640
<v Speaker 1>second the second layer, double second and third layer. Are

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<v Speaker 1>they called layers somehow, I'm a metal block of bitcoin.

408
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<v Speaker 1>So you got Bitcoin that's a blockchain and it's a

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<v Speaker 1>slow blockchain. Then you've got the second what do they

410
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<v Speaker 1>call it? Layer two? Yeah, so you got the layer

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<v Speaker 1>twos and layer threes. They're like when you go off

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<v Speaker 1>the gold standard. So they allow people to go off

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<v Speaker 1>and go trade as much as they want on other blockchains,

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<v Speaker 1>on other side chains, and then come back and equalize

415
00:31:03.799 --> 00:31:07.079
<v Speaker 1>on the Bitcoin blockchain. So they'll go off and they'll

416
00:31:07.119 --> 00:31:12.400
<v Speaker 1>trade on Lightning Network or on you know, any any

417
00:31:12.480 --> 00:31:18.160
<v Speaker 1>number of these side chains, and then they'll, after a

418
00:31:18.160 --> 00:31:25.599
<v Speaker 1>lot of transactions, then they will remedy or or reenact

419
00:31:25.960 --> 00:31:32.119
<v Speaker 1>on the Bitcoin blockchain, which moves slower but keeps absolutely

420
00:31:32.279 --> 00:31:34.839
<v Speaker 1>perfect records. Yeah.

421
00:31:34.880 --> 00:31:37.279
<v Speaker 2>So do you foresee or do you believe that the

422
00:31:37.400 --> 00:31:40.519
<v Speaker 2>ETFs are almost a Trojan Horse. They're good in the

423
00:31:40.640 --> 00:31:43.480
<v Speaker 2>short term. They allow people to get exposure. Takes bitcoin

424
00:31:43.519 --> 00:31:46.440
<v Speaker 2>into the mainstream, into Wall Street, but you don't actually

425
00:31:46.480 --> 00:31:49.160
<v Speaker 2>hold it. I believe in self custody. What what what

426
00:31:49.200 --> 00:31:51.720
<v Speaker 2>would be your recommendation to investors who are watching listening

427
00:31:51.759 --> 00:31:51.960
<v Speaker 2>to this.

428
00:31:52.839 --> 00:31:57.200
<v Speaker 1>You know it's easier to hold in the ETF than

429
00:31:57.240 --> 00:32:00.279
<v Speaker 1>it is to do self custody. It's just easy. You

430
00:32:00.279 --> 00:32:03.599
<v Speaker 1>call your broker, I want to buy bitcoin, Get me

431
00:32:03.599 --> 00:32:07.680
<v Speaker 1>some bitcoin. It gets you to the bitcoin. It's like easy.

432
00:32:07.720 --> 00:32:11.319
<v Speaker 1>But all you're doing with an ETF is betting on

433
00:32:11.720 --> 00:32:15.359
<v Speaker 1>it going up or down relative to the dollar. Well,

434
00:32:15.400 --> 00:32:18.480
<v Speaker 1>if the dollar goes away, I'm not sure what happens

435
00:32:18.480 --> 00:32:25.920
<v Speaker 1>to your ETF, but I do know that I would

436
00:32:26.039 --> 00:32:30.240
<v Speaker 1>rather hold an ETF of bitcoin than to hold on

437
00:32:30.319 --> 00:32:35.039
<v Speaker 1>to a dollar. But I'd rather hold the bitcoin itself

438
00:32:35.240 --> 00:32:38.759
<v Speaker 1>than to hold an ETF a bitcoin. Yeah, so there's

439
00:32:38.799 --> 00:32:46.039
<v Speaker 1>a a three three different levels of what I perceived

440
00:32:46.119 --> 00:32:50.000
<v Speaker 1>to be risk. And yes, you're exactly right. In fact,

441
00:32:50.039 --> 00:32:55.559
<v Speaker 1>I haven't ever bought an ETF, but I'm kind of

442
00:32:55.720 --> 00:32:59.920
<v Speaker 1>tempted by Kathy Woods ETF because she's really cool.

443
00:33:01.200 --> 00:33:02.960
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I've had Kathy on We've had a lot of

444
00:33:02.960 --> 00:33:05.640
<v Speaker 2>conversations around these things. And and obviously she's she's going

445
00:33:05.720 --> 00:33:08.400
<v Speaker 2>to be in favor of the ETF because ARC has one.

446
00:33:09.119 --> 00:33:11.440
<v Speaker 2>But you know, I tried to tell people that I

447
00:33:11.480 --> 00:33:15.880
<v Speaker 2>come across, look, okay, maybe dabbling ETF, but wholesome on

448
00:33:15.920 --> 00:33:19.440
<v Speaker 2>a on your private hardware wallet, just keep it. It's yours,

449
00:33:19.680 --> 00:33:22.079
<v Speaker 2>your private keys. No one can take that away from you.

450
00:33:23.720 --> 00:33:28.640
<v Speaker 1>No question. I mean, if you best advice bitcoin on Ledger,

451
00:33:29.440 --> 00:33:32.720
<v Speaker 1>yeah you want to do something that was what that

452
00:33:32.880 --> 00:33:35.559
<v Speaker 1>was a b o L was what everybody was saying

453
00:33:35.559 --> 00:33:38.920
<v Speaker 1>when they when Silicon Valley Bank went out of business.

454
00:33:39.559 --> 00:33:43.000
<v Speaker 1>They were all going bo L or boc bitcoin on

455
00:33:43.599 --> 00:33:46.960
<v Speaker 1>uh coin based, but it was it was bo L.

456
00:33:47.160 --> 00:33:50.359
<v Speaker 1>You know, bitcoin on Ledger and and Ledger is now

457
00:33:50.480 --> 00:33:52.680
<v Speaker 1>actually easier to use than it used to be, so

458
00:33:53.079 --> 00:33:56.960
<v Speaker 1>that's kind of nice. The new Ledgers stacks, it's true.

459
00:33:57.680 --> 00:34:00.240
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, they keep them doing iterations and it's getting much

460
00:34:00.279 --> 00:34:03.160
<v Speaker 2>better and easier for the common average Joe to use it.

461
00:34:03.200 --> 00:34:06.319
<v Speaker 1>So that's great. Yeah, those other the old ones were

462
00:34:06.480 --> 00:34:10.639
<v Speaker 1>very cluegy, but now Ledger is a great thing.

463
00:34:11.719 --> 00:34:13.960
<v Speaker 2>Now you mentioned earlier you bought thirty thousand big coins

464
00:34:13.960 --> 00:34:18.360
<v Speaker 2>from the US Marshall's service auction. If I'm not mistaking,

465
00:34:18.400 --> 00:34:20.480
<v Speaker 2>you said you're still holding those bigcoins and you continue

466
00:34:20.480 --> 00:34:23.559
<v Speaker 2>to answer your portfolio, So is this a long term.

467
00:34:23.840 --> 00:34:28.960
<v Speaker 1>But I've invested some, I actually have bought more, invested's

468
00:34:32.239 --> 00:34:39.719
<v Speaker 1>given some away. But yeah, I'm a huddler, you know.

469
00:34:40.239 --> 00:34:42.440
<v Speaker 1>And it's the easiest thing in the world to do.

470
00:34:42.480 --> 00:34:49.480
<v Speaker 1>You put it away and you just go, yeah, that's it. Fact,

471
00:34:49.599 --> 00:34:53.000
<v Speaker 1>I don't even know if somebody said here, you got

472
00:34:53.039 --> 00:34:56.760
<v Speaker 1>to get all your bitcoin out, I go, I think

473
00:34:56.800 --> 00:34:58.800
<v Speaker 1>I need like fifteen people to do that.

474
00:35:02.199 --> 00:35:04.880
<v Speaker 2>So in addition to your bitcoin holdings, I know you're

475
00:35:05.000 --> 00:35:08.880
<v Speaker 2>fund to invest in different companies like Proppy, I've read tasos.

476
00:35:09.239 --> 00:35:11.960
<v Speaker 2>Are there other all coin projects if you want to

477
00:35:12.000 --> 00:35:14.480
<v Speaker 2>call them, that you're investing in. Are you investing in

478
00:35:14.480 --> 00:35:17.440
<v Speaker 2>companies that are building an infrastructure like your wallet services

479
00:35:17.440 --> 00:35:18.039
<v Speaker 2>and so forth?

480
00:35:19.559 --> 00:35:24.599
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, we have Arkham. We did a big investment of Arkham.

481
00:35:24.719 --> 00:35:29.679
<v Speaker 1>We think that what they've done, that guy is just

482
00:35:29.880 --> 00:35:34.880
<v Speaker 1>so brilliant and he's done extraordinary things and he's he's

483
00:35:34.920 --> 00:35:40.480
<v Speaker 1>putting names attached to bitcoin wallets. And of course the

484
00:35:40.599 --> 00:35:43.960
<v Speaker 1>US Marshal's Office is always very interested in what they're

485
00:35:43.960 --> 00:35:48.039
<v Speaker 1>doing over at Arkham, and then they have a token

486
00:35:48.320 --> 00:35:55.119
<v Speaker 1>which people need to use to find out who is

487
00:35:55.239 --> 00:35:57.960
<v Speaker 1>who owns what wallet or what wallets are doing what

488
00:35:59.079 --> 00:36:03.440
<v Speaker 1>and and that token has done very very well too,

489
00:36:03.639 --> 00:36:10.039
<v Speaker 1>So that's been a great success for us. We've had

490
00:36:13.239 --> 00:36:24.840
<v Speaker 1>bezos bank or Propy way back when we did handshake. Yeah,

491
00:36:24.880 --> 00:36:28.760
<v Speaker 1>so we've had quite a few, and more recently we've

492
00:36:28.800 --> 00:36:33.159
<v Speaker 1>got a bunch of investments in companies that are issuing

493
00:36:33.239 --> 00:36:38.800
<v Speaker 1>tokens for one purpose or another. But before anybody issues

494
00:36:38.800 --> 00:36:42.719
<v Speaker 1>a token in my portfolio, I always say, what is

495
00:36:42.760 --> 00:36:47.760
<v Speaker 1>the purpose? Why is someone going to pay real fiat

496
00:36:47.880 --> 00:36:56.639
<v Speaker 1>dollars or real bitcoin dollar bitcoins to buy your token? Why?

497
00:36:57.920 --> 00:37:01.239
<v Speaker 1>And they've got to have a real reason and after

498
00:37:01.559 --> 00:37:07.400
<v Speaker 1>just other than speculation or whatever. Right, And sure, DeFi

499
00:37:07.639 --> 00:37:11.039
<v Speaker 1>is important to create more liquidity in the marketplace and

500
00:37:11.079 --> 00:37:14.960
<v Speaker 1>all that stuff, But I think the most important use

501
00:37:15.079 --> 00:37:22.079
<v Speaker 1>is of bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies are retail use, which

502
00:37:22.119 --> 00:37:29.000
<v Speaker 1>is coming, investment use, and running businesses use because you're

503
00:37:29.039 --> 00:37:34.840
<v Speaker 1>going to want to run your business without having accounting, auditing, bookkeeping, whatever,

504
00:37:35.079 --> 00:37:39.199
<v Speaker 1>you want to run it just that way. And then

505
00:37:39.239 --> 00:37:44.360
<v Speaker 1>smart contracts because you can create a great contract say,

506
00:37:44.679 --> 00:37:48.880
<v Speaker 1>you know, I invest in you with twenty bitcoin, you

507
00:37:49.000 --> 00:37:52.440
<v Speaker 1>give me ten percent of your business, and we're off

508
00:37:52.480 --> 00:37:56.199
<v Speaker 1>to the races, and we can do that all on

509
00:37:56.239 --> 00:38:00.000
<v Speaker 1>a smart contract, and even in the negotiation we can

510
00:38:00.039 --> 00:38:03.159
<v Speaker 1>tweak the smart contract and then everything gets written up

511
00:38:03.159 --> 00:38:06.039
<v Speaker 1>in legal ees. But the smart contract is the thing

512
00:38:06.039 --> 00:38:12.880
<v Speaker 1>that drives the whole deal. So that I think those

513
00:38:12.920 --> 00:38:17.320
<v Speaker 1>are probably the best uses now, all sorts of uses

514
00:38:17.320 --> 00:38:22.400
<v Speaker 1>to the blockchain, all sorts of uses to a wallet.

515
00:38:23.159 --> 00:38:27.760
<v Speaker 1>You can hold everything from your passport to your real

516
00:38:27.840 --> 00:38:33.760
<v Speaker 1>estate deed, to your bitcoin, to your ordinals, to your

517
00:38:34.039 --> 00:38:41.119
<v Speaker 1>whatever ruins. All that stuff can be held on and

518
00:38:41.519 --> 00:38:44.239
<v Speaker 1>eventually will just be a part of your phone whatever.

519
00:38:44.280 --> 00:38:45.119
<v Speaker 1>That ends up being.

520
00:38:45.360 --> 00:38:51.400
<v Speaker 2>Ryan question about the future of fundraising. Obviously you're in

521
00:38:51.480 --> 00:38:54.400
<v Speaker 2>the venture world, you're investing in companies, but we saw

522
00:38:54.639 --> 00:38:57.960
<v Speaker 2>in twenty seventeen the ICO boom. Do you feel that

523
00:38:58.360 --> 00:39:01.679
<v Speaker 2>is the future of fundraising where you can crowdsource globally

524
00:39:02.280 --> 00:39:07.400
<v Speaker 2>and do with companies and entrepreneurs still need folks like yourself,

525
00:39:07.920 --> 00:39:11.679
<v Speaker 2>or maybe you can serve as a middleman to help

526
00:39:11.719 --> 00:39:13.880
<v Speaker 2>facilitate an ICO so to speak.

527
00:39:14.480 --> 00:39:18.000
<v Speaker 1>What are your thoughts on that? Yeah, I think venture

528
00:39:18.079 --> 00:39:24.039
<v Speaker 1>capitalists will start being more value add particularly if good

529
00:39:24.199 --> 00:39:29.079
<v Speaker 1>entrepreneurs can raise money from the masses some other way.

530
00:39:30.039 --> 00:39:32.960
<v Speaker 1>And for a while there it did look like icos

531
00:39:33.039 --> 00:39:35.199
<v Speaker 1>were just going to be the way everybody's going to

532
00:39:35.239 --> 00:39:38.320
<v Speaker 1>raise their money through an ICO, and in effect what

533
00:39:38.360 --> 00:39:40.880
<v Speaker 1>they were doing is day one for their business. They

534
00:39:40.920 --> 00:39:50.000
<v Speaker 1>were going public. Yeah, and that's interesting. The SEC went

535
00:39:51.119 --> 00:39:55.000
<v Speaker 1>after all the groups that were trying to comply and

536
00:39:55.159 --> 00:40:01.159
<v Speaker 1>they left alone FTX and I mean no method to

537
00:40:01.239 --> 00:40:07.320
<v Speaker 1>their men. So yeah, I think that there will be

538
00:40:07.400 --> 00:40:12.639
<v Speaker 1>other ways to raise money, and that's just Tokens are

539
00:40:12.840 --> 00:40:18.079
<v Speaker 1>a type of ownership. Stock is another type of ownership,

540
00:40:18.760 --> 00:40:22.960
<v Speaker 1>and when we invest in a company, we usually take both.

541
00:40:25.599 --> 00:40:29.559
<v Speaker 2>That makes sense, Tim, because you brought up the SEC

542
00:40:29.679 --> 00:40:32.159
<v Speaker 2>and I just recently had Hester purs Commissioner on the

543
00:40:32.159 --> 00:40:35.440
<v Speaker 2>podcast and we were talking about cryptoregulations and so forth.

544
00:40:35.760 --> 00:40:38.679
<v Speaker 2>But going back to twenty eighteen, you spoke to now

545
00:40:38.800 --> 00:40:41.719
<v Speaker 2>chair Gary Ginzer, but he was I think he had

546
00:40:41.960 --> 00:40:43.239
<v Speaker 2>I don't think he would. No, he was not at

547
00:40:43.280 --> 00:40:43.760
<v Speaker 2>the SEC.

548
00:40:43.840 --> 00:40:46.480
<v Speaker 1>Then now that he's a professor at MIT.

549
00:40:46.639 --> 00:40:49.159
<v Speaker 2>Yes, and you had an incredible foresight where you told

550
00:40:49.239 --> 00:40:53.119
<v Speaker 2>him how this industry would be attacked with the press

551
00:40:53.159 --> 00:40:58.840
<v Speaker 2>mentions the weaponization of regulators, the government, friends being called up,

552
00:40:59.239 --> 00:41:01.280
<v Speaker 2>and I don't know, I can't we can't prove this,

553
00:41:01.360 --> 00:41:03.920
<v Speaker 2>but most likely Jamie.

554
00:41:03.280 --> 00:41:04.960
<v Speaker 1>Became one of those weapons.

555
00:41:05.320 --> 00:41:08.480
<v Speaker 2>Yes, what the hell do you look back?

556
00:41:08.679 --> 00:41:09.559
<v Speaker 1>I mean looking back?

557
00:41:09.639 --> 00:41:12.079
<v Speaker 2>Are you like you were like an oracle? I mean,

558
00:41:12.199 --> 00:41:14.400
<v Speaker 2>do you foretold exactly what's going to happen?

559
00:41:14.880 --> 00:41:17.079
<v Speaker 1>Well, you know, I've lived a long time, so I

560
00:41:17.119 --> 00:41:21.400
<v Speaker 1>can predict with better accuracy than somebody who hasn't lived

561
00:41:21.400 --> 00:41:28.119
<v Speaker 1>a long time. But I've also lived meeting entrepreneurs and

562
00:41:28.239 --> 00:41:30.840
<v Speaker 1>they are always telling me about what they think the

563
00:41:30.880 --> 00:41:33.079
<v Speaker 1>future is going to look like. And so whenever I

564
00:41:33.199 --> 00:41:38.159
<v Speaker 1>hear one, I go, huh, how's that going to affect

565
00:41:38.199 --> 00:41:43.159
<v Speaker 1>everything else? And that's where, you know, I kind of

566
00:41:43.159 --> 00:41:45.920
<v Speaker 1>feel like, Okay, I do have a little bit of

567
00:41:45.960 --> 00:41:49.599
<v Speaker 1>an edge in being able to predict what the future

568
00:41:49.639 --> 00:41:55.519
<v Speaker 1>will hold. And it's kind of funny because people come

569
00:41:55.559 --> 00:41:58.159
<v Speaker 1>to me and they go, yeah, that thing you said

570
00:41:58.880 --> 00:42:02.920
<v Speaker 1>ten years ago happen And I look at him and

571
00:42:02.920 --> 00:42:07.480
<v Speaker 1>I go, what thing? I don't remember? I just say

572
00:42:07.519 --> 00:42:11.280
<v Speaker 1>what I just tell it the way it is, and

573
00:42:11.360 --> 00:42:16.800
<v Speaker 1>I tell it the way I expected to go. And

574
00:42:16.840 --> 00:42:21.079
<v Speaker 1>then ten years later people go Oh yeah, I went

575
00:42:21.360 --> 00:42:24.880
<v Speaker 1>just the way you said. And it's nice of them

576
00:42:24.960 --> 00:42:28.400
<v Speaker 1>to remember that I did it. I said it, but

577
00:42:29.920 --> 00:42:31.880
<v Speaker 1>generally I don't remember.

578
00:42:33.280 --> 00:42:36.559
<v Speaker 2>So, Tim, what do you think about the legal battle? So,

579
00:42:36.679 --> 00:42:39.320
<v Speaker 2>because you know, Ripple, I think was the first to

580
00:42:39.400 --> 00:42:41.599
<v Speaker 2>really get to the big major lawsuit.

581
00:42:41.719 --> 00:42:41.880
<v Speaker 1>Right.

582
00:42:41.880 --> 00:42:44.000
<v Speaker 2>They came out with that with a partial victory where

583
00:42:44.239 --> 00:42:47.960
<v Speaker 2>the judge mentioned intrinsically, these tokens are our securities. It's

584
00:42:48.079 --> 00:42:51.119
<v Speaker 2>very much in line with Howie. It wasn't the oranges

585
00:42:51.199 --> 00:42:53.400
<v Speaker 2>or the orange trees or orange groves. It was Howie's

586
00:42:53.480 --> 00:42:58.039
<v Speaker 2>packaging his scheme, Ganser's taking losses in courts. Right, Ripple,

587
00:42:58.519 --> 00:43:03.559
<v Speaker 2>you got the greyscale lawsuit and much more. And part

588
00:43:03.599 --> 00:43:06.760
<v Speaker 2>of your prediction was eventually the incumbents and the people

589
00:43:06.760 --> 00:43:09.559
<v Speaker 2>who are fighting end up adopting this. What are your

590
00:43:09.559 --> 00:43:11.280
<v Speaker 2>thoughts on where we're at in that timeline.

591
00:43:12.159 --> 00:43:16.239
<v Speaker 1>We're getting close. We have at least one and maybe

592
00:43:16.280 --> 00:43:27.000
<v Speaker 1>both presidential candidates looking to adopt bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies

593
00:43:27.079 --> 00:43:31.480
<v Speaker 1>as a way to encourage innovation because they know it's happening.

594
00:43:32.000 --> 00:43:35.960
<v Speaker 1>I mean, the real killer is all this innovation is happening,

595
00:43:36.960 --> 00:43:40.079
<v Speaker 1>and there are Americans, many Americans are coming up with

596
00:43:40.119 --> 00:43:44.199
<v Speaker 1>these innovative things, and then they geo fence the US,

597
00:43:44.760 --> 00:43:48.679
<v Speaker 1>in effect not allowing anybody in the US to try

598
00:43:48.800 --> 00:43:53.480
<v Speaker 1>their product. And all those great products are happening outside

599
00:43:53.519 --> 00:43:57.960
<v Speaker 1>the US, and all those customers are able to innovate

600
00:43:58.079 --> 00:44:02.440
<v Speaker 1>from that new platform, and we're not because there's this

601
00:44:02.599 --> 00:44:06.239
<v Speaker 1>big dark cloud that is the SEC today, and the

602
00:44:06.320 --> 00:44:09.679
<v Speaker 1>SEC is living in the past. It's an eighty year

603
00:44:09.719 --> 00:44:14.119
<v Speaker 1>old set of laws that they're clinging to, and it's

604
00:44:14.199 --> 00:44:18.280
<v Speaker 1>just time to change. You know, the world's moved on.

605
00:44:19.079 --> 00:44:21.480
<v Speaker 1>And if you want to compete in this world, if

606
00:44:21.519 --> 00:44:23.960
<v Speaker 1>you want to be the US and still compete and

607
00:44:24.039 --> 00:44:27.360
<v Speaker 1>still encourage all the innovation, all the great things that

608
00:44:27.400 --> 00:44:31.679
<v Speaker 1>happen in the Silicon Valley, you've got to embrace this.

609
00:44:33.360 --> 00:44:38.880
<v Speaker 1>And I think both both presidential candidates understand that Trump did.

610
00:44:39.079 --> 00:44:42.679
<v Speaker 1>First he said, I'm going to be the crypto president.

611
00:44:42.760 --> 00:44:45.000
<v Speaker 1>You're Againstler's going to be fired. I'm going to do

612
00:44:45.199 --> 00:44:50.920
<v Speaker 1>it and uh, and so he grasped it early. But

613
00:44:51.199 --> 00:44:54.159
<v Speaker 1>I'm also seeing Kamala have the same some of the

614
00:44:54.199 --> 00:44:59.000
<v Speaker 1>same thoughts. So I'm I'm encouraged that we're getting to

615
00:44:59.199 --> 00:45:09.000
<v Speaker 1>that place where it's it's either embraced or accepted. I

616
00:45:09.039 --> 00:45:14.840
<v Speaker 1>mean it's hard. They're fifty fifties, fifty million Americans with wallets,

617
00:45:14.960 --> 00:45:19.519
<v Speaker 1>with bigcoin wallets or crypto wallets. That is not a

618
00:45:19.599 --> 00:45:21.679
<v Speaker 1>voting block you can ignore.

619
00:45:21.960 --> 00:45:24.559
<v Speaker 2>And tim like and only for my own anecdotal evidence,

620
00:45:24.559 --> 00:45:27.320
<v Speaker 2>but my podcast community, family members and friends, there's both

621
00:45:27.360 --> 00:45:31.519
<v Speaker 2>Democrats and Republicans trading and using this technology. They're not thinking, oh,

622
00:45:31.519 --> 00:45:33.440
<v Speaker 2>I'm a Republican I must use crypto, or I'm a

623
00:45:33.480 --> 00:45:36.280
<v Speaker 2>Democrat I shouldn't. They're just it's just a technology, and

624
00:45:36.320 --> 00:45:39.840
<v Speaker 2>it's crazy that it's become political. But maybe that's the

625
00:45:39.880 --> 00:45:41.599
<v Speaker 2>way to get legislation through, right.

626
00:45:42.679 --> 00:45:45.960
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I'm one of those rare people who went to

627
00:45:46.039 --> 00:45:53.599
<v Speaker 1>the Giants Dodgers game and wore a Cubs hat. I've

628
00:45:53.679 --> 00:46:02.039
<v Speaker 1>met both presidential candidates and liked them both, and I'm

629
00:46:02.159 --> 00:46:06.519
<v Speaker 1>still trying to figure out whether I need to come

630
00:46:06.599 --> 00:46:10.760
<v Speaker 1>down on one side or the other. Both great people.

631
00:46:11.320 --> 00:46:13.599
<v Speaker 1>I mean that's one thing you don't get from the press,

632
00:46:13.679 --> 00:46:16.239
<v Speaker 1>but both great people both have their heart in the

633
00:46:16.320 --> 00:46:16.800
<v Speaker 1>right place.

634
00:46:18.559 --> 00:46:20.920
<v Speaker 2>Do you think twenty twenty fives a year we see

635
00:46:20.920 --> 00:46:23.440
<v Speaker 2>some legislation, make it up to a president.

636
00:46:23.480 --> 00:46:23.920
<v Speaker 1>We got one.

637
00:46:23.960 --> 00:46:25.360
<v Speaker 2>We got to build out of the House this year

638
00:46:25.440 --> 00:46:28.480
<v Speaker 2>fit twenty one. I'm hearing talk from Chuck Schumer and

639
00:46:28.519 --> 00:46:30.800
<v Speaker 2>top Republicans that we can get something through the lean

640
00:46:30.880 --> 00:46:33.440
<v Speaker 2>duck session through the Senate. Do you think twenty twenty

641
00:46:33.480 --> 00:46:34.079
<v Speaker 2>five is a year.

642
00:46:35.280 --> 00:46:39.320
<v Speaker 1>Well, what I'm hoping is not that there is some

643
00:46:39.559 --> 00:46:45.119
<v Speaker 1>legislation that crosses. In fact, actually Clinton was brilliant when

644
00:46:45.199 --> 00:46:51.320
<v Speaker 1>the Internet came out. Everybody said tax that Internet, regulate

645
00:46:51.400 --> 00:46:53.800
<v Speaker 1>that Internet, get rid of that Internet. They were doing

646
00:46:53.840 --> 00:46:56.960
<v Speaker 1>the same thing that they're doing to bitcoin net, and

647
00:46:57.639 --> 00:47:01.679
<v Speaker 1>he just said, let's just see how it goes. And

648
00:47:01.719 --> 00:47:05.639
<v Speaker 1>by seeing how it goes and not putting like a

649
00:47:05.800 --> 00:47:11.639
<v Speaker 1>dark cloud over every entrepreneur trying something new, he he

650
00:47:11.880 --> 00:47:16.960
<v Speaker 1>really allowed us to create some incredible businesses, trillion dollar

651
00:47:17.119 --> 00:47:21.960
<v Speaker 1>businesses that would have been created outside the US if

652
00:47:22.000 --> 00:47:28.159
<v Speaker 1>he had regulated or taxed the Internet. And so part

653
00:47:28.159 --> 00:47:32.559
<v Speaker 1>of me says, let it rip. But since they already

654
00:47:32.800 --> 00:47:39.360
<v Speaker 1>are messing with us through the SEC. Yeah, some clear

655
00:47:39.480 --> 00:47:43.679
<v Speaker 1>regulation would be awesome because it's clear and then we

656
00:47:43.760 --> 00:47:47.760
<v Speaker 1>know how to operate. But I think you need people

657
00:47:47.800 --> 00:47:51.960
<v Speaker 1>who kind of understand what's going on in the future

658
00:47:52.719 --> 00:47:58.079
<v Speaker 1>to try to regulate today because the fact that I

659
00:47:58.199 --> 00:48:03.639
<v Speaker 1>can't airdrop in the US is ludicrous. The fact that

660
00:48:03.719 --> 00:48:08.039
<v Speaker 1>I can't bet on a baseball game in the US

661
00:48:08.119 --> 00:48:12.760
<v Speaker 1>with a with a crypto bet is ludicrous. The fact

662
00:48:12.760 --> 00:48:22.519
<v Speaker 1>that I can't, Oh, we've got entirely different rules for

663
00:48:24.000 --> 00:48:32.960
<v Speaker 1>giving stock away and giving crypto away. Why why is it?

664
00:48:33.239 --> 00:48:37.039
<v Speaker 1>I mean, if it's a currency, it's a currency. But

665
00:48:37.159 --> 00:48:39.400
<v Speaker 1>if they're they're going to call it an asset, it

666
00:48:39.400 --> 00:48:42.920
<v Speaker 1>should be treated like all the other assets. It is.

667
00:48:43.440 --> 00:48:46.440
<v Speaker 1>They have put so much of a you know, I

668
00:48:46.519 --> 00:48:52.440
<v Speaker 1>call it the dark cloud, but it's there. They're overlapping

669
00:48:52.559 --> 00:48:56.360
<v Speaker 1>regulations that get in the way of progress of innovation,

670
00:48:56.639 --> 00:49:00.559
<v Speaker 1>of technology and all that progress, all that innovation, all

671
00:49:00.599 --> 00:49:04.840
<v Speaker 1>that technology is taking place in other countries. And if

672
00:49:04.840 --> 00:49:08.400
<v Speaker 1>we don't wake up soon, we're going to lose all

673
00:49:08.440 --> 00:49:14.039
<v Speaker 1>that regulator, I mean, all that innovation, and regulation really

674
00:49:14.079 --> 00:49:18.239
<v Speaker 1>does kill innovation. So the regulators have to be open

675
00:49:18.440 --> 00:49:23.480
<v Speaker 1>to future, allow future experiments to happen. I was at

676
00:49:23.639 --> 00:49:30.039
<v Speaker 1>this Harvard Business School reunion and the guy said, the

677
00:49:30.079 --> 00:49:37.199
<v Speaker 1>success of a business long term is how many experiments

678
00:49:37.239 --> 00:49:43.639
<v Speaker 1>an hour that business runs. And he compared having an

679
00:49:43.679 --> 00:49:46.079
<v Speaker 1>idea and a big business and having to get it

680
00:49:46.119 --> 00:49:49.039
<v Speaker 1>through your boss and your boss's boss, and possibly before

681
00:49:49.079 --> 00:49:55.360
<v Speaker 1>it eventually gets to see the light. Versus an innovator

682
00:49:55.400 --> 00:49:58.320
<v Speaker 1>who comes up with something and he goes to fifty

683
00:49:58.400 --> 00:50:03.360
<v Speaker 1>different venture capitalists on sand Hill Road and he only

684
00:50:03.400 --> 00:50:06.960
<v Speaker 1>needs one of them to say yes. I think that

685
00:50:06.960 --> 00:50:12.880
<v Speaker 1>that attitude needs to happen in innovation, and the regulators

686
00:50:13.000 --> 00:50:16.920
<v Speaker 1>need to allow things to rip for a while before

687
00:50:16.960 --> 00:50:21.880
<v Speaker 1>they think, hey, something dangerous has happened, as opposed to

688
00:50:22.880 --> 00:50:27.239
<v Speaker 1>thinking something dangerous might happen, and so whatever might happen,

689
00:50:27.280 --> 00:50:31.840
<v Speaker 1>we're going to make illegal now. I mean, that's really

690
00:50:31.960 --> 00:50:36.840
<v Speaker 1>backward thinking, and that will push the US into the

691
00:50:36.960 --> 00:50:42.599
<v Speaker 1>dark ages, and you might see countries like El Salvador

692
00:50:42.800 --> 00:50:50.920
<v Speaker 1>and the New Argentina and probably Switzerland and Singapore become

693
00:50:51.000 --> 00:50:56.239
<v Speaker 1>the super wealthy countries because they're the ones who are

694
00:50:56.360 --> 00:50:58.679
<v Speaker 1>letting it rip. Yeah.

695
00:50:58.840 --> 00:51:01.480
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I can't tell you how many stories I've heard

696
00:51:01.480 --> 00:51:03.719
<v Speaker 2>about folks who want to come to the United States

697
00:51:03.760 --> 00:51:06.320
<v Speaker 2>here in Dubai, Singapore and support They're like, yeah, it's

698
00:51:06.320 --> 00:51:08.760
<v Speaker 2>not worth it there. Our legal team is saying stay away.

699
00:51:09.480 --> 00:51:11.559
<v Speaker 2>And it's sad, and it's a lot of jobs that

700
00:51:11.599 --> 00:51:14.320
<v Speaker 2>could be here and benefits to the economy and wealth creation.

701
00:51:15.039 --> 00:51:16.599
<v Speaker 2>It really sucks the things I went.

702
00:51:16.679 --> 00:51:20.239
<v Speaker 1>And we would be customers of those companies. I mean,

703
00:51:20.280 --> 00:51:24.719
<v Speaker 1>there are lots of really interesting apps and products that

704
00:51:25.599 --> 00:51:28.639
<v Speaker 1>are not going to make it here because they're all

705
00:51:28.719 --> 00:51:31.199
<v Speaker 1>the lunites that don't want anything to change.

706
00:51:31.760 --> 00:51:35.840
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, Tim, I would love to get your take on

707
00:51:36.519 --> 00:51:38.840
<v Speaker 2>what you going to what you expect for the remainder

708
00:51:38.840 --> 00:51:41.719
<v Speaker 2>of this bull market. Twenty twenty three. Bitcoin ran up

709
00:51:41.960 --> 00:51:44.519
<v Speaker 2>at the beginning of this year, incredible run up, a

710
00:51:44.559 --> 00:51:47.599
<v Speaker 2>new all time high before the having for bitcoin because

711
00:51:47.599 --> 00:51:50.519
<v Speaker 2>of the ETF buying and we got fed ray cuts.

712
00:51:50.519 --> 00:51:53.519
<v Speaker 2>Global liquidity's on the rise again. They're going to start

713
00:51:53.559 --> 00:51:56.079
<v Speaker 2>the money printers again to service the debt. What is

714
00:51:56.119 --> 00:51:57.840
<v Speaker 2>your outlook for this market? Do you see a blow

715
00:51:57.840 --> 00:51:59.320
<v Speaker 2>off top in twenty twenty five? Do you have a

716
00:51:59.320 --> 00:52:00.400
<v Speaker 2>bitcoin price prediction?

717
00:52:02.639 --> 00:52:07.360
<v Speaker 1>My bitcoin price prediction, so my first one was ten

718
00:52:07.440 --> 00:52:11.880
<v Speaker 1>thousand dollars by twenty It was in twenty fourteen. I

719
00:52:11.920 --> 00:52:16.599
<v Speaker 1>made the prediction. I said three years twenty seventeen, ten

720
00:52:16.639 --> 00:52:19.639
<v Speaker 1>thousand dollars. Everybody said, what are you talking about. It's

721
00:52:19.639 --> 00:52:22.679
<v Speaker 1>one hundred and eighty dollars. You're off by like two destmints.

722
00:52:24.239 --> 00:52:26.039
<v Speaker 1>I said, it's going to hit it and it did,

723
00:52:26.159 --> 00:52:28.280
<v Speaker 1>and then it dropped down to four thousand, and I

724
00:52:28.400 --> 00:52:31.360
<v Speaker 1>at four thousand, I said, okay, it's going to hit

725
00:52:31.360 --> 00:52:33.639
<v Speaker 1>two hundred and fifty thousand in four years. And that

726
00:52:33.800 --> 00:52:39.199
<v Speaker 1>was in twenty eighteen, and it didn't. And part of

727
00:52:39.239 --> 00:52:43.440
<v Speaker 1>that was all the fear, uncertainty, in doubt spread by

728
00:52:43.960 --> 00:52:51.119
<v Speaker 1>the SEC, and that slowed down growth. It slowed down innovation,

729
00:52:51.400 --> 00:52:57.519
<v Speaker 1>it slowed down progress, it slowed down technology, I mean

730
00:52:57.639 --> 00:53:04.000
<v Speaker 1>just generally technology, and and so it didn't hit that

731
00:53:04.119 --> 00:53:09.320
<v Speaker 1>number yet. Well, eventually the government is going to have

732
00:53:09.400 --> 00:53:16.159
<v Speaker 1>to come to see the light. And the moment they

733
00:53:16.199 --> 00:53:19.599
<v Speaker 1>see the light two hundred, they're going it's gonna blow

734
00:53:19.599 --> 00:53:23.039
<v Speaker 1>through two hundred and fifty thousand dollars so fast. And

735
00:53:23.119 --> 00:53:25.159
<v Speaker 1>it might be bitcoin on the way up, and it

736
00:53:25.239 --> 00:53:27.519
<v Speaker 1>might be a dollar on the way down, but it's

737
00:53:27.559 --> 00:53:29.559
<v Speaker 1>going to blow through two hundred and fifty thousand.

738
00:53:30.239 --> 00:53:32.239
<v Speaker 2>When you say the government sees a light, are you

739
00:53:32.280 --> 00:53:36.159
<v Speaker 2>talking about legislation? But also with Trump and some of those,

740
00:53:36.360 --> 00:53:39.599
<v Speaker 2>Senator of Cynthia Limits proposed bigcoin as a US reserve asset.

741
00:53:39.639 --> 00:53:41.840
<v Speaker 2>Are you talking about both things or one of those?

742
00:53:42.639 --> 00:53:46.079
<v Speaker 1>Oh? I think any government should think in terms of

743
00:53:46.119 --> 00:53:49.719
<v Speaker 1>bitcoin as a as a as an asset is a

744
00:53:49.760 --> 00:53:55.519
<v Speaker 1>great thing because it can as a reserve asset. It's like,

745
00:53:56.320 --> 00:53:58.920
<v Speaker 1>you know, we hold a bunch of oil, or we

746
00:53:58.960 --> 00:54:01.440
<v Speaker 1>hold a bunch of gold or whatever. It's a way

747
00:54:01.480 --> 00:54:06.039
<v Speaker 1>of holding a commodity that you know is worth something

748
00:54:07.320 --> 00:54:11.119
<v Speaker 1>outside the US, not just here, and so it can

749
00:54:11.239 --> 00:54:17.800
<v Speaker 1>bail us out of debts or trouble or whatever. So yeah,

750
00:54:18.320 --> 00:54:22.000
<v Speaker 1>I think if you're running a company the size of

751
00:54:22.000 --> 00:54:30.239
<v Speaker 1>a US government, you should probably have ways of covering

752
00:54:31.239 --> 00:54:38.360
<v Speaker 1>your debts, your obligations, your expenses that are not your

753
00:54:38.400 --> 00:54:43.039
<v Speaker 1>own currency, because as we all know, if the dollar

754
00:54:43.079 --> 00:54:46.440
<v Speaker 1>gets a lot of inflation we got you know, the

755
00:54:46.480 --> 00:54:48.000
<v Speaker 1>dollar is not going to be worth for I much,

756
00:54:48.800 --> 00:54:51.719
<v Speaker 1>people won't trust them and they are going to run

757
00:54:51.760 --> 00:54:52.280
<v Speaker 1>to bitcoin.

758
00:54:53.719 --> 00:54:56.599
<v Speaker 2>I'll look to get your thoughts on the different blockchains

759
00:54:56.599 --> 00:54:59.719
<v Speaker 2>that are out there. How you see the future running

760
00:54:59.800 --> 00:55:03.519
<v Speaker 2>on blockchains. There's a lot of interoperability being built right

761
00:55:03.519 --> 00:55:07.360
<v Speaker 2>now with stable coins and tokenization and so forth. And

762
00:55:07.440 --> 00:55:10.280
<v Speaker 2>what's your knowledge of how the dot com boom and

763
00:55:10.960 --> 00:55:14.280
<v Speaker 2>Web one, Web two point zero? Do you see there's

764
00:55:14.320 --> 00:55:16.519
<v Speaker 2>going to be one hundred blockchains in different parts of

765
00:55:16.519 --> 00:55:19.679
<v Speaker 2>the world, or they will be maybe ten kind of

766
00:55:19.719 --> 00:55:22.239
<v Speaker 2>aside from bitcoin. Bitcoin is different. But like these smart

767
00:55:22.239 --> 00:55:26.679
<v Speaker 2>contract platforms like eth and Avalanche and whatever it may be,

768
00:55:27.480 --> 00:55:29.639
<v Speaker 2>what do you envision will happen there?

769
00:55:31.320 --> 00:55:37.840
<v Speaker 1>Competition is a good thing. It's good to have multiple alternatives.

770
00:55:39.599 --> 00:55:41.559
<v Speaker 1>That's one thing that's going on in my head. The

771
00:55:41.599 --> 00:55:45.199
<v Speaker 1>other is that you're starting to see a consolidation around bitcoin.

772
00:55:45.239 --> 00:55:49.320
<v Speaker 1>Bitcoin is a bigger and bigger percent of all the

773
00:55:49.360 --> 00:55:54.239
<v Speaker 1>tokens out there. The value of bitcoin is a bigger percentage.

774
00:55:55.920 --> 00:55:59.000
<v Speaker 1>I think then almost all of them put together.

775
00:56:00.800 --> 00:56:02.400
<v Speaker 2>And that.

776
00:56:04.440 --> 00:56:09.079
<v Speaker 1>Number, the bitcoin percentage is a percentage of all the

777
00:56:09.119 --> 00:56:17.039
<v Speaker 1>coins out there, is growing. So some of those currencies

778
00:56:17.079 --> 00:56:21.239
<v Speaker 1>are going to have some trouble getting support. If you

779
00:56:21.280 --> 00:56:26.159
<v Speaker 1>don't have support, your valueless and nobody trades in you.

780
00:56:26.599 --> 00:56:31.440
<v Speaker 1>So there will be some that go. The ones that

781
00:56:31.599 --> 00:56:35.440
<v Speaker 1>will survive are the ones that, as I mentioned, have

782
00:56:35.559 --> 00:56:39.239
<v Speaker 1>a real purpose and people have to use them to

783
00:56:39.360 --> 00:56:45.320
<v Speaker 1>buy something some product or service that they can't buy

784
00:56:45.360 --> 00:56:50.039
<v Speaker 1>some other way. So I think you will always have

785
00:56:50.719 --> 00:56:54.639
<v Speaker 1>I mean, like right now, we have Microsoft, and they

786
00:56:55.599 --> 00:57:01.000
<v Speaker 1>were the operating system for everybody for years, But then

787
00:57:01.079 --> 00:57:04.960
<v Speaker 1>there were companies like into It or whatever that that

788
00:57:05.159 --> 00:57:08.960
<v Speaker 1>kind of were able to survive even though Microsoft was

789
00:57:10.280 --> 00:57:16.119
<v Speaker 1>the center of gravity and it was where all the spreadsheets,

790
00:57:16.119 --> 00:57:18.760
<v Speaker 1>in the word processor and the data pass they all

791
00:57:18.800 --> 00:57:24.760
<v Speaker 1>went into Microsoft. So I actually think that the DeFi

792
00:57:25.159 --> 00:57:30.760
<v Speaker 1>and the ordinals and the smart contracts and whatever else

793
00:57:31.440 --> 00:57:36.679
<v Speaker 1>is all going to go into Bitcoin. But there are

794
00:57:36.800 --> 00:57:46.320
<v Speaker 1>other all current all currencies that have specific uses that

795
00:57:46.360 --> 00:57:50.400
<v Speaker 1>are going to be valuable that there aren't on pitcoin.

796
00:57:52.039 --> 00:57:54.280
<v Speaker 2>I want to ask you about AI, I know, running

797
00:57:54.320 --> 00:57:57.639
<v Speaker 2>up on time. Earlier you talked about your digital representation.

798
00:57:59.599 --> 00:58:02.360
<v Speaker 2>Do you f that is the future of how we

799
00:58:02.480 --> 00:58:05.920
<v Speaker 2>may communicate, how content creation may be done, where our

800
00:58:05.920 --> 00:58:10.679
<v Speaker 2>representations may be doing this interview versus you know specifically

801
00:58:11.239 --> 00:58:15.079
<v Speaker 2>and overall, your thoughts on AI impact on the job

802
00:58:15.119 --> 00:58:18.079
<v Speaker 2>market and what we may expect in the next ten

803
00:58:18.159 --> 00:58:19.639
<v Speaker 2>years seems very disruptive.

804
00:58:20.440 --> 00:58:25.320
<v Speaker 1>Well, as Adam, my son Adam Draper says, AI is

805
00:58:25.360 --> 00:58:29.840
<v Speaker 1>going to take all our jobs. So how you think

806
00:58:29.880 --> 00:58:33.559
<v Speaker 1>about that is, well, then how do I use AI

807
00:58:33.840 --> 00:58:39.679
<v Speaker 1>and create a different job? And humans are innovative. When

808
00:58:39.760 --> 00:58:47.920
<v Speaker 1>the corseless carriage came out, humans thought, oh, well, this

809
00:58:48.119 --> 00:58:52.400
<v Speaker 1>is the end of humanity because people are just going

810
00:58:52.480 --> 00:58:56.199
<v Speaker 1>to be driving around. When electricity came out, they thought

811
00:58:56.400 --> 00:59:01.760
<v Speaker 1>the gods were after us and the Internet came out,

812
00:59:01.800 --> 00:59:04.679
<v Speaker 1>they said a lot of the same things they're saying now.

813
00:59:05.880 --> 00:59:10.199
<v Speaker 1>They're saying, well, wait, you know, how do I control

814
00:59:10.280 --> 00:59:13.159
<v Speaker 1>my patent or how do I you know, they were

815
00:59:13.599 --> 00:59:18.920
<v Speaker 1>panicked about that. Humans figure out how to adapt, and

816
00:59:19.039 --> 00:59:21.559
<v Speaker 1>we are adapting faster and faster and faster, and we

817
00:59:21.599 --> 00:59:25.559
<v Speaker 1>get more and more innovation. And with AI, our innovation

818
00:59:25.760 --> 00:59:30.719
<v Speaker 1>is going to take a huge leap forward. So better

819
00:59:30.760 --> 00:59:34.199
<v Speaker 1>to get on the train than try to fight it.

820
00:59:35.559 --> 00:59:39.639
<v Speaker 1>And I think if you fight it, it's a losing

821
00:59:39.719 --> 00:59:45.400
<v Speaker 1>battle because it's too good. It's so awesome to use AI,

822
00:59:45.920 --> 00:59:51.559
<v Speaker 1>so awesome. Yeah, I'm I'm looking forward to having robots

823
00:59:51.599 --> 00:59:54.280
<v Speaker 1>that go around and have AI and they can be

824
00:59:54.480 --> 00:59:57.679
<v Speaker 1>intelligent and I can talk to my robot and say, hey,

825
00:59:57.679 --> 00:59:59.760
<v Speaker 1>I forgot my wallet at the restaurant. Will you go

826
00:59:59.800 --> 01:00:02.400
<v Speaker 1>pick it up? And you know, and if it's a

827
01:00:02.519 --> 01:00:05.440
<v Speaker 1>drone and you know, it can go and shoot over

828
01:00:05.480 --> 01:00:10.599
<v Speaker 1>there and say this is you know, my owner's wallet

829
01:00:10.960 --> 01:00:14.880
<v Speaker 1>and pick it up. I think all those things are

830
01:00:14.920 --> 01:00:17.760
<v Speaker 1>going to happen. It's going to be really amazing. Also,

831
01:00:17.880 --> 01:00:22.519
<v Speaker 1>transportation and space, Wow, they're changing in a big way.

832
01:00:22.559 --> 01:00:25.639
<v Speaker 1>And a lot of that is AI. It's like you

833
01:00:25.719 --> 01:00:29.360
<v Speaker 1>ever get in a way moa car or a cruise car.

834
01:00:30.119 --> 01:00:35.079
<v Speaker 1>Oh god, it's fantastic. It's great experience.

835
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<v Speaker 2>Do you think we're at the start of another industrial

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01:00:37.639 --> 01:00:39.159
<v Speaker 2>revolution with all these technologies?

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01:00:40.320 --> 01:00:46.559
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, we're in a We're in a trans transactional and

838
01:00:46.760 --> 01:00:53.599
<v Speaker 1>transportive revolution that has to be reinvented. We got to

839
01:00:53.599 --> 01:00:56.400
<v Speaker 1>figure out what what it is we call it, but

840
01:00:57.079 --> 01:01:04.119
<v Speaker 1>basically it's AI big coin, new forms of transportation and space,

841
01:01:04.960 --> 01:01:09.480
<v Speaker 1>and new forms of medicine in the body. Those are

842
01:01:09.880 --> 01:01:12.639
<v Speaker 1>rock in our world. It's going to be, you know,

843
01:01:13.159 --> 01:01:15.400
<v Speaker 1>really awesome when all those things are going to do.

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<v Speaker 1>So stay tuned and hold on to your hat amazing self. Tim.

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<v Speaker 2>I got some wrap up questions here for you. First,

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<v Speaker 2>if you could create your own metaverse, where would you go?

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01:01:26.960 --> 01:01:30.159
<v Speaker 1>If I were going to create my own metaverse, where

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01:01:30.199 --> 01:01:36.159
<v Speaker 1>would I go? Oh? I probably watched football and I

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01:01:36.280 --> 01:01:39.760
<v Speaker 1>would interview entrepreneurs all day long.

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01:01:40.599 --> 01:01:46.000
<v Speaker 2>And favorite food yeah, those real quick burgers. Favorite musician

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01:01:46.039 --> 01:01:46.440
<v Speaker 2>or Ben.

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01:01:50.119 --> 01:01:53.639
<v Speaker 1>Well, it was Taylor Swift at the beginning. Now it

853
01:01:53.719 --> 01:01:59.000
<v Speaker 1>might be Doja Cat, But then, of course I'm old.

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01:01:59.079 --> 01:02:03.800
<v Speaker 1>So I also like Aerosmith and the Beatles and Elton

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01:02:03.920 --> 01:02:07.519
<v Speaker 1>John and a number of others. So yeah, every movie.

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01:02:09.639 --> 01:02:14.920
<v Speaker 1>Oh I love movies where the entrepreneur is the hero.

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01:02:15.920 --> 01:02:26.280
<v Speaker 1>So I liked a couple of great ones with Tom

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01:02:26.360 --> 01:02:32.880
<v Speaker 1>Cruise in them. The when he when he's the agent

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01:02:32.960 --> 01:02:35.679
<v Speaker 1>for the football player and he takes off and he says,

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01:02:35.719 --> 01:02:40.199
<v Speaker 1>who's with me? Yeah, that was a great moment. Yeah,

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01:02:40.280 --> 01:02:44.400
<v Speaker 1>Jerry McGuire. And then Risky Business where he you know,

862
01:02:44.519 --> 01:02:50.119
<v Speaker 1>he runs in effect of House Ofville repute in his house.

863
01:02:52.280 --> 01:02:57.079
<v Speaker 1>And I like and I like science fiction, but I

864
01:02:57.119 --> 01:03:00.239
<v Speaker 1>actually like reading science fiction more than I like and

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01:03:00.280 --> 01:03:03.000
<v Speaker 1>reading comic books more than I like watching the movies,

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01:03:03.679 --> 01:03:07.880
<v Speaker 1>because the movies it all feels sort of normal. But

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01:03:08.000 --> 01:03:10.960
<v Speaker 1>you read it, read the books and you're going, oh god,

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01:03:11.079 --> 01:03:13.960
<v Speaker 1>that could happen, and you have you have time to

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01:03:14.000 --> 01:03:16.599
<v Speaker 1>sort of ruminate on it, think about it, and so

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01:03:17.119 --> 01:03:23.400
<v Speaker 1>things like Dune, everything by Asimov, Foundation I Robot, all

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01:03:23.440 --> 01:03:28.639
<v Speaker 1>that stuff. I like Stranger in a Strange Land another

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01:03:28.639 --> 01:03:34.360
<v Speaker 1>great book. So yeah, there you go, books, movieseter.

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01:03:34.599 --> 01:03:38.280
<v Speaker 2>All right, Tim Pleasure, thank you so much. I have

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01:03:38.360 --> 01:03:41.039
<v Speaker 2>to have you back on when bitcoin hits two fifty.

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01:03:41.840 --> 01:03:45.880
<v Speaker 1>Fifty, you bet give me a call. We'll see thank you, okay,

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<v Speaker 1>thanks Tony eighty two, third two