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Speaker 1: A model Roman Catholic call right there. Why can't all

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the Roman Catholics be like that guy? That was cool?

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I'm determined to find this freaking Bitcoin Island video that

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I watched. I watched the whole video and now I

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can't find it. It's not even in my history. I

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didn't remove it from my history. In fact, I think

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I saved it because I thought this is kind of cool.

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Actually I might am I gonna moved to Bitcoin Island

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one day if.

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Speaker 2: Things get if they get really crazy, I'm gonna move

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to Bitcoin Island. Let me see. I'm still looking for it. Uh,

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watch later. I probably put it on their watch later.

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Let's see.

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Speaker 1: Now it was something like was it Nicaragua, Bitcoin, bitquain City,

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Nicaragua something. It wasn't El Salvador. I know all about Ol Salvadors.

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This just videos popped up though. It was crazy, So

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I bet this is it?

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Speaker 3: Here it is, I found it, Okay, pull it.

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Speaker 2: Up for you guys here.

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Speaker 4: Now.

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Speaker 1: This is to address the libertarian discussion earlier. So Business Insider,

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I guess did this profile on bit quain City in Honduras,

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not Nicaraga. Couldn't think of where it.

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Speaker 2: Was, so.

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Speaker 1: This is like some small community, uh, and they have

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like it's I think going for the libertarian idea of

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everything's voluntary.

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Speaker 2: We're gonna have like.

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Speaker 1: A private security force that's gonna maintain order you opt

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into it and all this stuff. And I mean a

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lot of it sounds pretty cool. The only thing is

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like it sounds like it also sounds kind of uh,

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not as libertarian as you think it is initially because

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it's almost.

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Speaker 2: Like a super corporate h O.

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Speaker 1: A type of setup where you gotta you gotta sign

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onto all this crap and like you're gonna you're basically

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governed by some kind of corporate board. And I'm like,

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is this I guess this? I mean, is this a

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libertarian I guess it is. It's like, well, you have

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to opt into it, but if you don't, so what

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happens if I don't? So if I don't opt into it,

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do I not get the security force coming to my

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house to protect?

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Speaker 2: I mean, I don't. I don't know how this is

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gonna work. But I mean, I guess is we're moving

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in the right direction. I guess.

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Speaker 1: Let's see what this says here about city life here

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in Bitcoin.

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Speaker 5: City, the normal public services you'd expect in a city

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aren't exactly there. For safety, the city relies on a

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security guard service.

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Speaker 1: So as just this one dude sitting here in the

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sitting in this wooden crate, Like, here's your security for us.

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Speaker 2: It's just this guy. I mean, maybe he's really good.

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I don't know. I'm just saying.

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Speaker 5: There's one private Montessorian elementary school that charges five hundred

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and fifty dollars a month for tuition. Around one hundred

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and twenty businesses had registered here as of January twenty

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twenty three.

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Speaker 6: In Andreas, it will take you somewhere around six months

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or more to get the proper licenses to operate your business,

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and here you can get your business to an operational

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stage and listen two weeks.

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Speaker 5: The new companies include a gene therapy startup, a dive shop,

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and a bitcoin education center run by Duzan Matuska, who

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moved from Slovakia. So here is where we pay.

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Speaker 1: So like, obviously this is not really operating yet, but

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maybe this is I don't know, maybe this is the

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way of the future.

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Speaker 2: I don't know.

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Speaker 1: So they have they have a legal system, but it's

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like judges through Skype.

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Speaker 2: It just sounds funny. I watched this so that this

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is fantasy island, but.

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Speaker 1: Like there's nobody there yet, so maybe maybe you want

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to be first a fantasy island, like Tattoo is not

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even there yet, so you could you could even beat

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Tattoo to fantasy perhaps if you got bitcoin.

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Speaker 2: Did you say bitcoin? I've been telling you. You didn't

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listen to me.

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Speaker 1: You thought crazy internet goofball didn't know what he's talking about,

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but I knew what I was talking about.

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Speaker 5: The most controversial part about the city state is the

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judicial system. Prospero has set up its own online court

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to settle disputes.

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Speaker 2: Many prosper.

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Speaker 4: So.

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Speaker 2: I guess the the wealth.

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Speaker 1: Tier is intended to keep bad actors out, but there's

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a lot of rich people that are bad actors.

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Speaker 2: So I don't know. I just don't know this.

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Speaker 1: I mean, there probably already is some Galt gulch somewhere.

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Maybe they're trying to make El Salvador into golf's culture.

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Speaker 2: I don't know. I don't know. I don't know what

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the answer is.

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Speaker 1: But one thing there could happen is that if El

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Salvador or Bitcoin City or whatever, if these things are

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really actually successful and they work really well, which I

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think some of them probably will. They might be examples

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for other countries to say, hey, we want to do

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like that. Like they're actually building communities that actually work.

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They're not you know, socialist hell holes, democratic blue city nightmares.

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Let's set one of these up or something, and then

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it becomes like a light to the nations, right, something

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like that maybe. But I don't know, Gabriel, what's up?

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Somebody said this sounds like a front. That's also possible.

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This could be some kind of a CIA front.

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Speaker 2: It could be some kind of a it could be

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a cult. I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I would definitely want to like have spent

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time here, have like due diligence research before I moved

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into like some kind of cult community where I'm being

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my control.

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Speaker 2: But I don't, you know, like who knows? What's up?

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Speaker 7: Man?

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Speaker 2: I'm you Joe Jay.

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Speaker 8: Can you hear me, sir, man, I'm a huge fan.

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I have a couple of questions. It shouldn't take too long, Okay,

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all right? So my first question is if the Earth

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is old, is that disproved the Bible or no.

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Speaker 1: I just don't think you can prove that the Earth

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is old. So I don't see how you prove that

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without assuming things that wait, the data or the instruments

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already assuming the date right, like, for example, well, the

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red light couldn't come here unless there was a big bang.

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And it's like, well, but if God created the universe,

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then the red light was already here. It didn't have

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to come here from the big bang. So in other words,

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the argumentation assumes a big bang in the case of

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the red light coming from the stars or whatever. But

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that's the thing in question, So how do you prove

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how do you I don't understand, and like, well, well,

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let's look at the rock layers and the.

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Speaker 2: Geology or whatever.

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Speaker 1: But you're attributing age to what you see what it

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had to take millions of years for that layer to

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form that, And then we see counter examples where there's

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a fossil or a tree that extends between these geological

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layers that are supposed to millions of years. So I

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just don't see how you prove the old age. Even

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carbon dating, well, even carbon dating does the exact same thing,

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where it oftentimes assumes that, well, we know that for

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this to decay at this rate, it takes billions of years.

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But that's the thing in question again, how do we

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know it takes billions of years?

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Speaker 9: All right, Okay, that makes sense.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's just my skeptic take on a lot of

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that stuff.

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Speaker 1: And again, I'm actually a skeptic on the things that

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most people are not skeptics on, and I'm actually an

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argument for certitude on the things that most people think

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aren't certain and don't know about. So, in other words,

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I flip it. The philosophical stuff I actually think is

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certain and theoyant stuff is actually not certain. And that's

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I think something that people oftentimes misunderstand about this stuff

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that I argue and where I'm coming from, Matt, what's up, yore?

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Speaker 2: Y'all?

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Speaker 10: Hey, Hey, just a quick question.

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Speaker 11: I had the unfortunate mispleasure of watching the Alex O'Connor

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and Cliff Connecting You or whatever his name is debate.

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Speaker 2: I've been hearing about this. I haven't watched it yet.

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Is this something I should watch?

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Speaker 11: Not unless you want to stick two pencils in your eyes?

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Speaker 4: Is it?

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Speaker 12: Ah?

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Speaker 10: This is horrible.

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Speaker 11: I mean I gave up evidentialist apologetics a long time ago,

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and I think I sort of was leaning towards presup.

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But then when I listened to your arguments on TAG

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and FDA, I couldn't really come up with anything to

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kind of refute it. But in saying that, one of

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the things I point to in this debate is the

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problem of suffering for animals, which I thought was just

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not really a good point anyway. But I wanted to

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ask if you have heard of well you probably have,

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but about Angelic for Theodyssey. And let's just assume that

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you know they're not going to argue get into the

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pre sup game, right, but would you say the Angelic

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for theodssey is a good argument for the problem of suffering,

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especially in light of like C. S.

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Speaker 9: Lewis and also J. R.

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Speaker 11: Tolkien with his work on the Cymarillion, that kind of reasoning.

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Speaker 2: Maybe I'm not familiar with that specific thesis. Can you

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lay it out for me? What is this idea basically?

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Speaker 4: And I think it can tie in.

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Speaker 11: With logos and the LOGI was that the angels were

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created first and then when we read and it's almost

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kind of similar to gap theory where the angels have

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ready for all in Genesis one. So whoo, who you know,

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the chaotic mess and God is actually restoring the creation,

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and that because the angels have left their heavenly abode

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and the responsibilities that they were given, Creation has already fallen.

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Because God doesn't say it's perfect, he said it's good,

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and so kind of Genesis talks about the kind of

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I suppose the garden as being that I suppose that

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rescue mission of the creation, which was purpose always in Christ.

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Speaker 4: But you know, Adam is the first one.

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Speaker 10: And so we have suffering.

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Speaker 11: With you know, animal death or suffering simply because Creation

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has already suffered a fall through the angelic beings who

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were in charge of all of these different areas.

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Speaker 1: So the immediate problem I would see with this is

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the Orthodox view posits the timeless Aon, which is where

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the angels are. And so because the Aon is a

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timeless created eternity, the angels either continued in grace or

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fell in an instant, so it's timeless. So their immediate

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choice determined whether they were angels or demons, and so

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that caused a kind of fall, you could say, in

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the spiritual realm. But as Orthodox we couldn't say that

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that angel fall affected the created realm, because that doesn't

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happen until Adam consents, and that's why Adam is the

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basically the high priest and steward of all the created order.

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So that's why when Adam falls, according to Romans eight,

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that fall then affects all the created order, whether it's

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entropy on the moon or whether it's Hamster's dying, all

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of that's a result of Adam's fall. But the angelic

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fall only affects the spiritual realm for us.

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Speaker 9: Okay, good, all right, thank you sir.

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Speaker 2: That's a great question, you'd say. Man, yeah, that's a

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great question. I've never had a I can't.

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Speaker 1: Remember the last time we had our like a deep

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angel type of question. But if you want a good

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passage on the Aon, if you get Vladimir Lawski's book

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Dogmatic Theology, there's a really good four page explanation of

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the Orthodox view of the timeless Aon and the reason

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that matters in theology.

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Speaker 2: John Deamascus mentions the a on two.

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Speaker 1: But the reason it matters in theology is that it

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actually distinguishes us from Platonism. Not not many people know this,

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but so for Platonism you have time and eternity, and

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really that's it. There's just those two, and eternity is

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really equated ultimately with the forms or the one, and

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there's no.

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Speaker 2: Kind of there's nothing in between.

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Speaker 1: But in Orthodox Christianity, there's not just God, the uncreated

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and man.

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Speaker 2: And then in the.

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Speaker 1: Temporal realm there's also the timeless created a which is

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where the angels are. So there's this other realm uh

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and hence the you know, God creates the worlds or

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the realms and so forth. So we in that in

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part when you read Maximis and other people who talk

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about it, it's it's another angle by which we are

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distinguished from the Platonic view. There is no created, timeless

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alon and Platinism pop by Daddy, what's up?

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Speaker 7: Hey?

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Speaker 13: I had a quick question on the view on the

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Orthodox Church on Eastern Catholics.

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Speaker 9: What's the view?

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Speaker 2: What do you mean?

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Speaker 13: Like what like do you guys see do you guys

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see it as heretical or that.

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Speaker 9: Since we communion with Rome?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, ultimately, unfortunately, even though you guys should

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a lot of our theology, we do not believe that

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entering into communion with Rome makes it still it's no

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longer Orthodox.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 14: But also with the philioque if we change or they

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say they can use through the sun instead of from

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the sun.

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Speaker 1: That yeah, but that would just be to admit that way.

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But that would just be to admit that you're part

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of a church that has two creeds.

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Speaker 2: I mean, there's only one creed. There's not two creeds.

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Speaker 1: So even if there's a theological explanation for two different creeds,

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merely having two different creeds I think is a pretty

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good argument that that's not the true church.

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Speaker 2: The church has one creed, It's always had one creed.

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And beyond that, it's like Rome used to say that if.

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Speaker 1: You, you know, believe the theology of Palamas, you're excommunicated.

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Oh but now it's cool since John Paul the Second,

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you know, revered Palamas or whatever. And oh, by the way,

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Eastern Catholics, by the way, you can use the same

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festial manion, and you can you know, Revere Sergius or

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Ratinees and all these, you know, people that are supposed

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to be schismatics. I mean, I just read Kantate Domino,

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which says, if you die at a communion with Rome,

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you're damned. Oh but not anymore, because the pope says

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that Russian Orthodox Saints are cool now, Like, it just

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doesn't make sense.

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Speaker 13: Also, do you know if like I'm like just studying

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into Eastern Catholics right now, but do you know if

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Eastern Catholics can say the philioquick Creed too, is it

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allowed or not?

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Speaker 1: I mean, I don't see why you couldn't, because technically

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you're supposed to accept everything that room teaches, all right,

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But Eastern Catholics are basically in a like double mind,

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double thing position because many of them say, well, we

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don't accept all this papal stuff, like the Malchi Catechism

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says we believe in seven ecumenical councils. There's no there's

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no Roman Catholic position that allows you to only believe

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seven ecumenical councils. That's just crazy, It's ridiculous. It's not true,

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which shows that it's not actually about the theology, it's

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about political geopolitical stuff.

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Speaker 13: Also, can I get your thoughts on CCC two forty eight.

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Speaker 9: It talks about the Eastern tradition.

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Speaker 13: How the father is the first of origin, and the

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Western tradition expresses it like the father and the son

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has the.

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Speaker 9: Same consubstantial essence, like go. I'm not sure, but it's

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I have to look at it.

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Speaker 2: But so it's the catechism.

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Speaker 1: Well on catechism, I don't have it, I have the

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I have Denzing, or I don't have the current Catholic

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Catechism in front of me.

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Speaker 2: What is the.

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Speaker 15: Number forty eight?

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Speaker 2: The outset.

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Speaker 1: The Eastern tradition expresses the father's character as the first

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origin of the spirit by confessing the Spirit as he

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proceeds from the Father. It affirms that he comes from

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the Father through the Son. The Western tradition expresses the

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first constitential community between the Father and son by saying

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that those spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son.

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It says this legitimate and with good reason, for the

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eternal order of the divine persons of their consubstantiality. Consential

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communion implies that the Father, as the principle without principle,

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is the first origin of the spirit, but also as

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the father of the Son, he is with the Son,

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a single principle from which the Holy Spirit precedes. That's

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the line that Orthodox would have a problem with, because

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that's from Florence, and that that's granting a special type

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of unity that shared between the Father and the son

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that the spirit lacks. And if you read the Cavedocians,

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they all are pretty unanimous that there's no property that

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two persons have that one lacks, because in the trinity,

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you either say something that's a hypostatic property proper to

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one person, or it's an actual property that all three have.

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So for example, love, love is a common attribute of

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property that all three persons in the trinity share, being

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cause that's the hypothetic property that picks out the father,

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and it's non communical and not shareable. So the Cappadocians say,

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and this is the teaching of constantin nomber one. Everything

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that the father has the son has, except being the cause.

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That's directly in contrast to what the Council Florence and

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Roman Catholic theology says.

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Speaker 13: All right, thank you those basically it appreciate it.

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Speaker 1: Also, you might want to read from the Vatican the

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I think it's from the nineties. It's called the Vatican

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Clarification with philia O Clay, because even though it's a

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Vatican document, basically it just admits that these views are

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still intention over that very point, whether or not the

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hypesite property the father could be something shared by another person.

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So even the Vatican's minist minded documents admit these two

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views are still intention. So even if we even if

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the Vatican concedes points about proceeding through or eternal manifestation

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and that many Eastern brothers teach Eastern Father's teach manifestation,

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the views are still still intention on that point. From Florence,

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all right, let's see, let me read a few. We're

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still going where I need to read a few, super chess,

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because we've got quite a few here. I didn't read

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the rest of sincere hypocrite. Excuse me, he said, Uh,

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what didn't Dick Todd? Is Pape and Vatican one make

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it impossible for a pope to be judged by a layman. Yeah, absolutely,

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and not just those as many other statements.

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Speaker 2: See de legas of pious. We just pulled this up

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the other day see de legas.

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Speaker 1: This actually a dreat us is in the Roman Catholic

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Church lay theologians, So this is actually above random internet

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goobers trying to judge the pope.

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Speaker 2: This is actually.

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Speaker 1: Literal like lay PhD people, and the whole it basically

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says that, yeah, that's cool that you're a lath theologian

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or whatever. But you have no authority in the church

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and it doesn't really matter. So there's many documents that

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basically point out that no Roman, no Rando guy gets

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to decide Francis is orthodoxy. Does this prove that they

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are Protestants in practice? Absolutely? And that is pretty much

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the thesis of this stream for the first hour, mean

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gene three dollars, no goofy gubers all out up in here. Well, actually, tonight,

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everybody's been super cool. We haven't had any goofy gebers.

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It's all been pretty much high tier. Maybe I should

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go back to doing evening streams because the reason I

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started doing the afternoon streams was that I noticed that

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the YouTube is super high from like two to five PM.

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That's like the for whatever reason, that's like the most

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traffic on YouTube. So we were doing that and we

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were getting pretty consistently like thirteen hundred. I think I

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was even getting like fifteen hundred, almost two thousand live

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for a few times, and we got up to one

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thousand tonight, which is cool. But maybe the quality callers

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are in the evenings and the fair Isle foaming at

385
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the mouth goofy goobers are during the daytime. Haiti's Undead

386
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fifteen dollars, shorter videos and more concise information addressing FAQs. Yeah,

387
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I've been actually thinking about doing this, and you know,

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they don't actually get that.

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Speaker 2: Many more views.

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Speaker 1: One or two of them can, like I think, like

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my Pope when Francis said, all the religious lead to God.

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This one got four one thousand views, which for a

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twelve minute video on my channel is pretty good. The

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Dogmatic Contradiction video that's eighteen minutes got twenty four thousand.

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I do think that the long form stuff is actually

396
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hurting the potential viewership, just because so many people are

397
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much more likely to click my twelve minute video than

398
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the five hour videos.

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Speaker 2: But here's the thing.

400
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Speaker 1: Guys like I make a living doing this, and when

401
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I got demonetized, there was no incentive to make the

402
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short videos except to make them concise. So here's part

403
00:23:41,240 --> 00:23:43,880
of the solution. And I don't care if you guys

404
00:23:44,000 --> 00:23:48,920
monetize your clips channels. We've gotten now about probably four

405
00:23:49,039 --> 00:23:51,599
or five dudes out there that have been making clips

406
00:23:51,680 --> 00:23:54,279
channels using my stuff, and they monetize it. I mean,

407
00:23:54,279 --> 00:23:56,039
it's not going to be like a lot of money.

408
00:23:56,319 --> 00:23:57,839
But I don't care. If you guys do that and

409
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you can monetize it, go for it.

410
00:24:00,160 --> 00:24:03,400
Speaker 2: So and we've got obviously Kyle does it with the

411
00:24:03,480 --> 00:24:06,680
dire clips. I don't care if Kyl does that, he

412
00:24:06,720 --> 00:24:08,920
can do it. We got a new guy who's been

413
00:24:08,960 --> 00:24:11,759
doing it. He's doing really good clips. Where's going at?

414
00:24:14,920 --> 00:24:29,160
Where is that one? It's an Orthodox guy? Where's it at?

415
00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:35,440
Speaker 1: Anyway, it's on her somewhere. Maybe I passed the scroll

416
00:24:35,480 --> 00:24:40,359
past it. But we got orthodox dude. Another Orthodox dude

417
00:24:40,359 --> 00:24:42,240
that's doing them. Job was doing them for a while.

418
00:24:42,279 --> 00:24:43,599
Those were getting a lot of views. I guess he

419
00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:46,799
got tired of doing it. Anyway, long story short, I

420
00:24:46,799 --> 00:24:49,880
don't care if you guys clip and go for it

421
00:24:50,279 --> 00:24:54,880
because actually, you guys, remember.

422
00:24:55,920 --> 00:24:57,279
Speaker 2: The way that Tate blew.

423
00:24:57,119 --> 00:25:01,519
Speaker 1: Up back in twenty twenty was because of his stupid

424
00:25:01,559 --> 00:25:06,079
Hustlers university stuff. Was like telling all these dudes to

425
00:25:06,079 --> 00:25:08,559
clip his videos and you get like free access to

426
00:25:08,759 --> 00:25:12,240
hustlers or whatever his thing is. And this actually blew

427
00:25:12,319 --> 00:25:14,480
up his chance like his stuff, right, That's how he

428
00:25:14,519 --> 00:25:18,519
got so famous, was doing all this like online marketing

429
00:25:18,519 --> 00:25:21,279
through telling other people to promote the stuff and clip

430
00:25:21,319 --> 00:25:24,480
it be my guest, Dude, go for it, clip all

431
00:25:24,519 --> 00:25:27,119
of it, start a clip channel, monetize it.

432
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Speaker 2: I don't care, go for it.

433
00:25:29,599 --> 00:25:32,440
Speaker 1: I'm happy to see anybody clipping my stuff because you

434
00:25:32,440 --> 00:25:35,559
know what, I spend half of my day doing uploading

435
00:25:35,599 --> 00:25:37,640
and clipping, and I don't like doing it.

436
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Speaker 2: It's no fun.

437
00:25:38,400 --> 00:25:41,640
Speaker 1: It actually detracts from all the mental time and energy

438
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that I want to put into actually reading books and

439
00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:45,400
actually doing content.

440
00:25:45,880 --> 00:25:49,359
Speaker 2: But I have to spend half of my day.

441
00:25:49,200 --> 00:25:53,160
Speaker 1: Clipping and uploading crap, and honestly, I get sick of it.

442
00:25:53,799 --> 00:25:55,759
But if you want to make some side cash and

443
00:25:55,799 --> 00:25:57,319
monetize my stuff, I don't care.

444
00:25:57,319 --> 00:25:57,839
Speaker 4: Go for it.

445
00:25:59,599 --> 00:26:03,640
Speaker 2: Or coma.

446
00:26:04,240 --> 00:26:12,000
Speaker 16: Have any people who disagree, Hey man, thanks for taking

447
00:26:12,079 --> 00:26:12,880
my call a big fan.

448
00:26:15,640 --> 00:26:17,799
Speaker 10: We're talking earlier about the age.

449
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Speaker 17: Of the Earth, you know, hold Earth versus Young Earth,

450
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and it just.

451
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Speaker 18: Made me get to thinking, what about like the size

452
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of the cosmos and the size of the universe and

453
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the fact that we as a human species, as an

454
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orthodox believer right, as an orthodox Christian.

455
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Speaker 17: And following Father Star from Rose and demons and everything,

456
00:26:38,759 --> 00:26:43,200
how does that play into our belief of if the

457
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size of the universe is what scientists say they are say.

458
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Speaker 4: It is right.

459
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Speaker 17: Of course, you have to believe that in the first place,

460
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But if you humored death for a second, how would

461
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that have an effect if there were others out there?

462
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Would there be other humans that would have the same

463
00:26:59,440 --> 00:27:00,559
concept salvation?

464
00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:05,000
Speaker 1: Are you talking about, like this argument that the universe

465
00:27:05,079 --> 00:27:07,279
is so big that there's got to be alien life

466
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out there.

467
00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:10,839
Speaker 17: Yeah, that's just something I've been thinking about.

468
00:27:14,039 --> 00:27:14,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's stupid.

469
00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:16,319
Speaker 1: In fact, if you listened to a lot of my

470
00:27:16,400 --> 00:27:21,880
recent alien analysis podcasts, we've been addressing that argument. I

471
00:27:21,880 --> 00:27:24,720
think that's just a really I mean, it literally relies

472
00:27:24,799 --> 00:27:29,640
on the Big Bang, you know, infinite universe narrative that well,

473
00:27:29,720 --> 00:27:32,759
if the universe is infinite, then it stands to reason

474
00:27:32,759 --> 00:27:35,319
that there would be life evolving on other planets. I

475
00:27:35,319 --> 00:27:39,680
think it's old, just nonsense, and yeah, I would just

476
00:27:39,680 --> 00:27:41,640
say go listen to some of those pods. I just

477
00:27:41,680 --> 00:27:43,960
I don't think that the universe is infinite. In fact,

478
00:27:44,559 --> 00:27:49,160
it was an esoteric goober. Giordano Bruno was one of

479
00:27:49,200 --> 00:27:53,079
the first people to start arguing that the universe was infinite,

480
00:27:53,680 --> 00:27:55,400
and he did that on the basis of a bunch

481
00:27:55,400 --> 00:27:58,039
of weird esoteric philosophy had nothing to do with quote science.

482
00:27:58,079 --> 00:28:00,960
It was just like he's like the early he's an

483
00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:07,519
early proponent for multiple worlds Bruno, and he got to

484
00:28:07,960 --> 00:28:10,039
he didn't I don't know if he explicitly says multiple worlds,

485
00:28:10,039 --> 00:28:13,720
but he get to that from infinite universe. And there's

486
00:28:13,759 --> 00:28:17,599
a whole nerdy rabbit hole that you can go down

487
00:28:17,839 --> 00:28:23,119
from theories of space and time after the Enlightenment. So

488
00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:25,599
Newton and all these different characters is like, it's this

489
00:28:25,720 --> 00:28:28,240
really neat rabbit hole. It's so nerdy that nobody really

490
00:28:28,279 --> 00:28:31,240
cares about it except for like physics astronomy nerds, which

491
00:28:31,319 --> 00:28:33,480
is like one percent of this channel. So it's not

492
00:28:33,480 --> 00:28:36,359
really even any point going into that stuff. I don't know,

493
00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:37,920
I mean know a little bit about it. Because we

494
00:28:37,920 --> 00:28:42,000
had a class on this modern European philosophy class. We

495
00:28:42,039 --> 00:28:45,440
spent some time on different theories of space, and some

496
00:28:45,480 --> 00:28:48,519
of these philosophers, for example Kant, consider space to be

497
00:28:48,559 --> 00:28:52,880
a transceittal category. But then other philosophers around that time

498
00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:55,079
were positing that the universe was infinite.

499
00:28:55,079 --> 00:28:56,640
Speaker 2: So what you start to notice is that.

500
00:28:56,680 --> 00:29:00,559
Speaker 1: They take divine attributes and no longer are those divine

501
00:29:00,599 --> 00:29:05,240
attributes transcendent, they're actually smushing them into the created realm.

502
00:29:05,279 --> 00:29:10,920
So now the universe becomes infinite in Bruno, and I'm

503
00:29:10,960 --> 00:29:13,240
not joking about it. Like this literally leads like a

504
00:29:13,279 --> 00:29:18,319
few generations later to some of the early multiverse proponents who.

505
00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:19,599
Speaker 2: Are getting it from the.

506
00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:28,559
Speaker 1: Weirdo Giordano Bruno, who was explicitly an esoteris by the

507
00:29:28,559 --> 00:29:33,839
way he influences Hegel. Let me show you what I'm

508
00:29:33,880 --> 00:29:36,119
talking about. I've got a couple books on this that

509
00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:40,400
are pretty cool, but but nobody cares about this. This

510
00:29:40,519 --> 00:29:42,480
is just like super nerd stuff.

511
00:29:42,559 --> 00:29:42,880
Speaker 2: Dude.

512
00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:47,880
Speaker 1: So this guy who's a complete weirdo, if you look

513
00:29:47,960 --> 00:29:57,200
him up, I'm looking for Stanford Encyclopedia philosophy, not this stuff.

514
00:30:02,240 --> 00:30:02,680
Speaker 2: Here we go.

515
00:30:07,039 --> 00:30:10,359
Speaker 1: So yeah, see you'll notice right away a lot of

516
00:30:10,400 --> 00:30:14,079
this is pretty esoteric stuff, right Like this is platonics,

517
00:30:14,119 --> 00:30:17,400
the universal soul, universal matter, universal intellect.

518
00:30:17,400 --> 00:30:19,279
Speaker 2: This is like Platonic stuff, the hidden God.

519
00:30:19,960 --> 00:30:20,279
Speaker 9: Hmmm.

520
00:30:20,920 --> 00:30:24,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, well this is like Crole not just Crowley is

521
00:30:24,759 --> 00:30:30,519
way late, but like Hegelian stuff. Who's that other medieval

522
00:30:30,559 --> 00:30:50,559
mystic who's has the same Eckhart meister Eckhart stuff, panpsychism.

523
00:30:50,680 --> 00:30:54,319
Speaker 2: Let's see Bruno mm hmm.

524
00:30:58,400 --> 00:31:05,680
Speaker 1: Verse Giordano Reno positive the universe was infinite and populated

525
00:31:05,680 --> 00:31:08,839
with many worlds. So here is yeah, here we go,

526
00:31:08,960 --> 00:31:09,680
universe infinite.

527
00:31:10,440 --> 00:31:12,079
Speaker 2: That's what I meant to go to the first time.

528
00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:27,480
Speaker 1: So notice that this is coming from like by the

529
00:31:27,480 --> 00:31:33,759
Copernicus was also a neoplatonic chrometic thinker too. If the

530
00:31:33,799 --> 00:31:39,119
heavens are infinite, then the outermost regions would revolve infinitely,

531
00:31:39,160 --> 00:31:42,160
and this would be an infinitely revolving cosmos like an onion.

532
00:31:42,920 --> 00:31:45,839
It said it was an infinite homogeneous expanse popular by

533
00:31:45,880 --> 00:31:48,680
an infinite number of solar systems. So now we're getting

534
00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:53,240
to infinite worlds from these guys, right. So notice multiverse

535
00:31:53,519 --> 00:31:59,799
was always from esoteric occultic people. I'm not saying it's

536
00:31:59,799 --> 00:32:01,440
fault because of that. I'm just saying that you do

537
00:32:01,559 --> 00:32:03,559
have to know the origins of it, that it really

538
00:32:03,559 --> 00:32:05,880
has nothing to do with anything in terms of like

539
00:32:05,880 --> 00:32:11,599
biblical theology. It's literally just esoteric occulta chrometic stuff anyway.

540
00:32:11,640 --> 00:32:17,519
Speaker 2: So let's get down to where Bruno says. But you'll

541
00:32:17,559 --> 00:32:21,440
notice that he is taking divine attributes and.

542
00:32:21,400 --> 00:32:25,400
Speaker 1: Just smushing them into the creative order. Bruno's explanation of

543
00:32:25,400 --> 00:32:28,079
how bodies you're composed has proved outright the dominant risk

544
00:32:28,160 --> 00:32:32,160
telling view that the universe was infinitely divisible. It also

545
00:32:32,279 --> 00:32:36,519
just proved atomism. The universe is infinite and comprised of

546
00:32:36,519 --> 00:32:40,039
an infinite number of finite, indivisible atoms. So it's just

547
00:32:40,039 --> 00:32:43,119
getting it's getting pretty wild. And then it goes into

548
00:32:43,160 --> 00:32:46,799
like just straight up like full on Plato stuff, universal

549
00:32:46,839 --> 00:32:50,799
sole sole, universal matter, universal intellect. And I think it

550
00:32:50,839 --> 00:32:55,920
wasn't Bruno at the time condemned by the papacy. I

551
00:32:55,920 --> 00:33:00,960
think that's true. And then the this is the clips

552
00:33:01,000 --> 00:33:03,759
channel guy that's recently started doing clips over here. Shout

553
00:33:03,799 --> 00:33:07,440
out to him. His name's Orthodox Clips. He's used a

554
00:33:07,480 --> 00:33:09,880
bunch of mind videos. The only thing I would recommend

555
00:33:09,920 --> 00:33:11,519
is if you do start a clips channel, just please

556
00:33:11,559 --> 00:33:12,359
do link back.

557
00:33:12,240 --> 00:33:15,000
Speaker 2: To my video. Otherwise you can do whatever. It's fine,

558
00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:17,319
all right.

559
00:33:17,680 --> 00:33:24,440
Speaker 1: So we went down the Jordano Bruno rabbit hole. Osmotic

560
00:33:24,480 --> 00:33:26,880
twenty five dollars. Why do Protestants pray the blood of

561
00:33:26,960 --> 00:33:27,599
Christ over you?

562
00:33:27,680 --> 00:33:30,160
Speaker 2: What does that mean? I think they just think that

563
00:33:30,200 --> 00:33:33,559
it's kind of like a like a supercharged prayer. If

564
00:33:33,599 --> 00:33:34,559
they do that right.

565
00:33:34,960 --> 00:33:44,000
Speaker 1: I mean, I guess because the Bible does mention in

566
00:33:44,039 --> 00:33:46,160
many places the blood of Christ. But I also think

567
00:33:46,160 --> 00:33:48,720
that Protestants don't ever think about the Blood of Christ

568
00:33:48,799 --> 00:33:52,279
actually having reference to the Eucharist, like to the actual

569
00:33:52,319 --> 00:33:55,839
wine in this Like you know, when you read chapters

570
00:33:55,839 --> 00:33:58,640
in like Romans where Paul talks about, you know, baptizing

571
00:33:58,680 --> 00:34:01,480
to his death, and Paul mentions, you know, in other

572
00:34:01,519 --> 00:34:04,359
places that the blood of Christ, you know, does this

573
00:34:04,440 --> 00:34:07,079
and that, and the protest of mind that's just this

574
00:34:07,160 --> 00:34:10,079
sort of ethereal thing that you call upon, and they

575
00:34:10,079 --> 00:34:12,840
don't think about it being embodied in the actual Eucharist.

576
00:34:13,280 --> 00:34:16,199
And I think, no, Paul's actually talking about the Lord's

577
00:34:16,199 --> 00:34:19,480
Supper when he says the blood of Christ redeems you

578
00:34:19,519 --> 00:34:20,960
and all this kind of stuff, like they just think

579
00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:22,599
of it as divorced from the sacrament.

580
00:34:23,159 --> 00:34:25,679
Speaker 2: Michale three dollars, Merry Christmas. I don't tune in much,

581
00:34:25,719 --> 00:34:27,039
but I appreciate what you do. Thank you.

582
00:34:28,119 --> 00:34:30,480
Speaker 1: Off topic, if you looked into this character, Ammon Hillman,

583
00:34:30,599 --> 00:34:33,039
his claims are disturbing. I mean, I just kind of

584
00:34:33,039 --> 00:34:37,480
think it's so sometimes people are really out there in

585
00:34:37,519 --> 00:34:41,440
their claims that it's almost not really worth addressing, you know,

586
00:34:41,639 --> 00:34:45,719
like Jesus. Other people say, oh Jesus is a vast

587
00:34:45,800 --> 00:34:52,000
Jewish conspiracy. Really, I mean, come on, oh Jesus was

588
00:34:52,039 --> 00:34:56,400
actually gay? I mean, is it really worth It's just

589
00:34:56,480 --> 00:34:58,400
kind of crazy? Jv Free five dollars?

590
00:34:58,519 --> 00:35:02,400
Speaker 2: Jay? Why? Jay?

591
00:35:02,920 --> 00:35:06,159
Speaker 1: Or Jay why? I don't know what you're whying? Vane

592
00:35:06,239 --> 00:35:08,559
five dollars Merry Christmas? What do I need to read?

593
00:35:08,559 --> 00:35:14,639
The refute universalism? Well, three ecumenical councils refute Originism in Toto,

594
00:35:14,800 --> 00:35:19,440
including his entire system. At the six Ecamenical Council, the

595
00:35:19,480 --> 00:35:23,320
Confession of Saint Sophronius is a four page full refutation of.

596
00:35:23,239 --> 00:35:24,840
Speaker 2: The entire system of origin.

597
00:35:27,079 --> 00:35:30,360
Speaker 1: Those combinations are repeated at the seven Ecumenical Council and

598
00:35:30,440 --> 00:35:33,880
in the Sonoticon. So those things reputed, but in a

599
00:35:34,039 --> 00:35:38,719
metaphysical theological sense. David Rhan's video is still a classic

600
00:35:38,800 --> 00:35:43,800
on this topic, which is pointing out that if you

601
00:35:43,840 --> 00:35:49,639
don't have the nature person distinction in anthropology, it also leads.

602
00:35:49,440 --> 00:35:50,960
Speaker 2: To the universalists conclusion.

603
00:35:51,000 --> 00:35:55,440
Speaker 1: So, for example, David Bentley Hart correctly understands that when

604
00:35:55,480 --> 00:35:59,000
Christ assumes universal human nature, he's going to universally restore

605
00:35:59,119 --> 00:36:02,199
and resurrect all human nature. He then concludes that that

606
00:36:02,360 --> 00:36:05,280
must mean that all human beings are saved. No, no, no,

607
00:36:05,760 --> 00:36:07,639
it means all human beings are saving this since their

608
00:36:07,719 --> 00:36:11,719
nature is restored. But how each individual hypostasis uses that

609
00:36:11,840 --> 00:36:15,760
nature is what determines the experience of the escoton. So

610
00:36:15,920 --> 00:36:20,079
look up David Rhan and it's actually not even a

611
00:36:20,159 --> 00:36:24,039
very long video, but it's probably still a good easy

612
00:36:24,320 --> 00:36:29,400
reputation of David Bentleyheart on this point, because usually people

613
00:36:29,400 --> 00:36:32,960
are thinking of David Biley Hart when they come to

614
00:36:33,000 --> 00:36:33,639
this conclusion.

615
00:36:34,599 --> 00:36:36,840
Speaker 2: Here it is right here, short reputation of universal. There

616
00:36:36,840 --> 00:36:41,440
are many people, and he makes the point that you

617
00:36:41,440 --> 00:36:42,360
hear me making here.

618
00:36:43,840 --> 00:37:03,360
Speaker 1: So I'll link you that video right there. Who's debating

619
00:37:03,400 --> 00:37:03,920
in the chat?

620
00:37:03,920 --> 00:37:04,119
Speaker 4: Here?

621
00:37:08,400 --> 00:37:10,159
Speaker 2: Is there a Roman Catholic debating in the chat? You

622
00:37:10,159 --> 00:37:13,760
need to come on the stream dog where y'all hiding it?

623
00:37:17,039 --> 00:37:22,840
Speaker 1: Anyway, we got a lot of we got good ninth

624
00:37:23,039 --> 00:37:26,920
twenty three people. We've never had twenty three people requesting

625
00:37:26,960 --> 00:37:30,800
to debate. That's crazy. Where did all these people?

626
00:37:31,000 --> 00:37:31,079
Speaker 4: So?

627
00:37:31,079 --> 00:37:32,360
Speaker 1: I guess I need if I want to really want

628
00:37:32,360 --> 00:37:34,320
people coming into debate. I didn't do it at night

629
00:37:35,639 --> 00:37:37,519
let's get some of these people at the end. David A,

630
00:37:37,760 --> 00:37:38,199
what's up?

631
00:37:43,639 --> 00:37:50,239
Speaker 2: David? Ah, what's up? Young Newton?

632
00:37:55,280 --> 00:37:55,800
Speaker 9: Hey day?

633
00:37:55,840 --> 00:37:56,199
Speaker 4: What's up?

634
00:37:56,679 --> 00:37:56,880
Speaker 2: Hey?

635
00:37:58,079 --> 00:37:58,400
Speaker 4: Love it?

636
00:37:58,760 --> 00:38:02,599
Speaker 2: M Uh well, I gotta I got a couple.

637
00:38:03,960 --> 00:38:07,880
Speaker 9: Uh h, I want to thank the Maybe you know what.

638
00:38:07,840 --> 00:38:12,280
Speaker 2: About I can't hear? Can you speak like it's super muffled?

639
00:38:14,079 --> 00:38:14,880
Speaker 9: Can you can be better?

640
00:38:14,920 --> 00:38:15,079
Speaker 4: Now?

641
00:38:15,840 --> 00:38:17,039
Speaker 2: Not really? But what's the question?

642
00:38:19,039 --> 00:38:19,360
Speaker 4: Uh?

643
00:38:19,599 --> 00:38:24,400
Speaker 2: The question is that there are difference between.

644
00:38:24,159 --> 00:38:25,480
Speaker 10: Rogue and.

645
00:38:27,880 --> 00:38:31,679
Speaker 1: Yeah, So they're different jurisdictions. Ro corp is Russian Orthodoxy

646
00:38:31,760 --> 00:38:39,519
and Greek orthodox are Greek jurisdiction. So appreciate your question. Uh, Colin,

647
00:38:39,599 --> 00:38:39,960
what's up?

648
00:38:40,000 --> 00:38:40,159
Speaker 4: Man?

649
00:38:40,559 --> 00:38:45,800
Speaker 2: Looking for people who disagree to get it today. Guys

650
00:38:47,199 --> 00:38:52,280
mean Jeane, I'm mute. You are muted. Three dollars you're mute. Boomer,

651
00:38:52,320 --> 00:38:54,719
I'm mute, mean Jane, we can't hear you. I'm your mute.

652
00:38:55,199 --> 00:38:57,480
I'm muted, dude. One dollar. I'm mute, dude.

653
00:38:57,559 --> 00:39:03,199
Speaker 1: Yes, I did fall prey to my own critiques because

654
00:39:03,400 --> 00:39:05,880
the stupid little button that you have to hit to

655
00:39:06,079 --> 00:39:08,159
mute when I play a video, I have to mute

656
00:39:08,199 --> 00:39:11,519
me and it does not always register when you unmute

657
00:39:11,519 --> 00:39:15,159
it because there's so many programs running that it just

658
00:39:15,239 --> 00:39:16,840
doesn't register what's up.

659
00:39:17,920 --> 00:39:23,559
Speaker 7: Hey, Jay, I had a question about epistemology. I watched

660
00:39:23,559 --> 00:39:26,039
a couple of videos you made about it, and I

661
00:39:26,079 --> 00:39:28,679
think you were talking about like the parapateetic axiom and

662
00:39:28,719 --> 00:39:33,400
how like that is bad and like you can't like

663
00:39:33,519 --> 00:39:36,280
really know anything, and I was wondering how you like

664
00:39:36,320 --> 00:39:38,360
how the orthodox position gets around that.

665
00:39:38,920 --> 00:39:42,480
Speaker 1: Well, the parapateetic axiom is from Aristotle and it says

666
00:39:43,159 --> 00:39:45,400
that there's nothing in the intellect that's not first in

667
00:39:45,440 --> 00:39:49,519
the senses. So I believe that a lot of things

668
00:39:49,679 --> 00:39:52,079
must be in the senses before they're in the intellect.

669
00:39:52,079 --> 00:39:54,760
But the problem with the paradetic axiom is more fundamental

670
00:39:54,760 --> 00:39:57,679
than that. It's just that if you have that paradigm,

671
00:39:57,760 --> 00:40:01,280
or if you're going to be an empiricist, the parapatetic

672
00:40:01,360 --> 00:40:05,920
axiom itself is not in sense experience, and so it's

673
00:40:05,960 --> 00:40:08,519
self refuting. So it's kind of like an empiricist who

674
00:40:08,559 --> 00:40:11,880
says that all knowledge comes from sense data, Well, how

675
00:40:11,920 --> 00:40:13,199
do you know that all knowledge.

676
00:40:12,960 --> 00:40:15,679
Speaker 2: Comes from sense data? Because that's a universal claim which

677
00:40:15,719 --> 00:40:18,400
is not found in sense data. Does that make sense?

678
00:40:19,400 --> 00:40:23,079
Speaker 7: Yeah, you said that, I believe that you said, like,

679
00:40:23,239 --> 00:40:26,079
your knowledge is ultimately grounded in God, can you?

680
00:40:26,559 --> 00:40:29,639
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, but I also don't accept the belief that

681
00:40:29,800 --> 00:40:34,079
all knowledge, that everything that's in my mind was first

682
00:40:34,119 --> 00:40:36,559
in my senses. I don't believe that there's all kinds

683
00:40:36,559 --> 00:40:40,239
of things that are not in sense data that are

684
00:40:40,440 --> 00:40:46,480
that can be in the mind. Abstract concepts, love, numbers, universals.

685
00:40:46,719 --> 00:40:48,840
I mean, all of these things are not technically in

686
00:40:49,000 --> 00:40:53,199
sense data, meaning the meaning and a proposition that's not

687
00:40:53,280 --> 00:40:57,840
in sense data, that's not found in the physical God

688
00:40:58,159 --> 00:41:03,800
is not typically in the physical domain. So obviously God

689
00:41:03,880 --> 00:41:05,880
is in the intellect, but he's not in the sense

690
00:41:06,199 --> 00:41:07,880
You see how this goes along with tomism, right, and

691
00:41:07,960 --> 00:41:14,679
tomism You know God by the creative effects. Well, God

692
00:41:14,760 --> 00:41:16,239
is not in my immediate sense.

693
00:41:16,119 --> 00:41:19,880
Speaker 2: Data, so how is he in my intellect?

694
00:41:20,880 --> 00:41:21,199
Speaker 3: Okay?

695
00:41:21,360 --> 00:41:24,159
Speaker 7: I like, I definitely, I'm just not understanding.

696
00:41:25,039 --> 00:41:26,880
Speaker 4: I will try to watch more of your videos and stuff.

697
00:41:27,519 --> 00:41:28,880
Speaker 2: Hold on, So what are you not understanding?

698
00:41:31,119 --> 00:41:33,320
Speaker 4: I don't understand how you.

699
00:41:35,199 --> 00:41:39,880
Speaker 7: Like get to knowing God exists without your using your

700
00:41:39,880 --> 00:41:42,800
sense data, Like, I know he doesn't first.

701
00:41:42,320 --> 00:41:45,119
Speaker 1: But that's not what I'm doing. So I'm not getting

702
00:41:45,199 --> 00:41:52,079
to God without sense data. It's rather that empiricist approaches

703
00:41:52,519 --> 00:41:55,519
don't work to prove the thing that they're trying to prove.

704
00:41:56,280 --> 00:41:59,960
So I'm happy with saying that everything in sense data.

705
00:41:59,760 --> 00:42:01,599
Speaker 2: Point to and testifies to God.

706
00:42:02,000 --> 00:42:05,320
Speaker 1: But that's not what the empiricist or a parapatetic axiom

707
00:42:05,400 --> 00:42:10,199
is trying to say. It's starting from a finite human

708
00:42:10,280 --> 00:42:15,480
perspective and then trying to say that anything that I

709
00:42:15,599 --> 00:42:18,559
know or that's in my mind has to first be

710
00:42:18,719 --> 00:42:19,599
in sense data.

711
00:42:20,280 --> 00:42:22,119
Speaker 2: And I'm saying we don't even have to go to.

712
00:42:22,159 --> 00:42:25,000
Speaker 1: Theology in God's existence to show that that's not true,

713
00:42:25,559 --> 00:42:29,199
because just the proposition itself is not in sense data.

714
00:42:29,480 --> 00:42:32,159
The parapatetic axiom itself is not in sense data, so

715
00:42:32,280 --> 00:42:36,920
it's self refuting as a starting point for epistemology. So

716
00:42:37,679 --> 00:42:41,039
Thomass thought that it was a good idea to use

717
00:42:41,079 --> 00:42:45,119
Aristotle as a starting point for religious epistemology, and I'm

718
00:42:45,119 --> 00:42:46,039
just pointing out why.

719
00:42:45,840 --> 00:42:46,480
Speaker 2: That doesn't work.

720
00:42:46,519 --> 00:42:49,719
Speaker 1: So if I'm an Orthodox person, I can use insights

721
00:42:49,719 --> 00:42:51,199
from Aristotle or from whoever.

722
00:42:51,599 --> 00:42:52,280
Speaker 2: I'm not going to.

723
00:42:52,239 --> 00:42:56,840
Speaker 1: Adopt an Aristotelian epistemology as the first starting point for

724
00:42:56,960 --> 00:42:57,880
my theology.

725
00:42:58,000 --> 00:42:58,880
Speaker 2: That's the stupid thing.

726
00:43:00,360 --> 00:43:04,880
Speaker 7: Okay, and I have one last question, sure, Like with

727
00:43:05,199 --> 00:43:10,280
your pismology, how do you know that what you're experiencing

728
00:43:10,320 --> 00:43:12,039
around you is real?

729
00:43:12,280 --> 00:43:15,519
Speaker 9: Like that the external world is actually real?

730
00:43:17,079 --> 00:43:19,960
Speaker 1: Well, I'm not an empiricist, so I don't begin my

731
00:43:21,239 --> 00:43:24,199
worldview or my belief system from my immediate sense data.

732
00:43:24,280 --> 00:43:25,039
Speaker 2: If I was an.

733
00:43:24,960 --> 00:43:28,960
Speaker 1: Empiricist, I would end up in a David Humian's skeptical

734
00:43:29,000 --> 00:43:33,079
type of position, where I couldn't necessarily know with justificable

735
00:43:33,119 --> 00:43:36,599
with justified true belief certitude, that the external world exists,

736
00:43:36,719 --> 00:43:40,039
or that the past exists, or that objects of identity

737
00:43:40,039 --> 00:43:42,880
over time, all of those things would be very difficult

738
00:43:42,960 --> 00:43:45,440
or impossible for me to know or prove. But as

739
00:43:45,519 --> 00:43:50,559
Orthodox Christians, we are not empiricists as a school of thought,

740
00:43:50,800 --> 00:43:54,599
So there's not a problem with empirical sense data. But

741
00:43:54,679 --> 00:43:59,599
my theology, my worldview does not begin with mere sense data.

742
00:44:00,239 --> 00:44:03,239
I begin with divine revelation and the totality of that

743
00:44:03,440 --> 00:44:07,719
worldview as my presupposition. That's what grounds my belief that

744
00:44:08,320 --> 00:44:11,159
God has made a world where my senses are generally

745
00:44:11,159 --> 00:44:14,400
speaking reliable, and so I don't have good reason to.

746
00:44:14,440 --> 00:44:16,599
Speaker 2: Doubt the external world and I have good.

747
00:44:16,440 --> 00:44:18,840
Speaker 1: Warrant to believe that there is an external world based

748
00:44:18,880 --> 00:44:22,760
on God's promises to my providence, the metaphysical structure of

749
00:44:22,760 --> 00:44:25,079
the world, etcetera. All those things are the reasons I

750
00:44:25,079 --> 00:44:28,639
would believe in the external world. And precisely because I'm

751
00:44:28,679 --> 00:44:32,559
not a naive empiricist, would I be in some sort

752
00:44:32,559 --> 00:44:33,480
of skeptical trap.

753
00:44:35,159 --> 00:44:36,599
Speaker 4: Okay, thank you. I appreciate that.

754
00:44:36,679 --> 00:44:39,119
Speaker 7: I think I understand more and I want to say

755
00:44:39,199 --> 00:44:41,519
thank you. I used to be a project for a

756
00:44:41,559 --> 00:44:46,119
long time, and your videos on like the transcendental argument

757
00:44:47,119 --> 00:44:50,119
in like other church history things made me like I'm

758
00:44:50,199 --> 00:44:50,920
converting right now.

759
00:44:50,920 --> 00:44:52,119
Speaker 4: I'm in the catechumen process.

760
00:44:52,679 --> 00:44:53,199
Speaker 2: That's great.

761
00:44:53,639 --> 00:44:55,360
Speaker 1: I would say if you're looking for a good readable

762
00:44:55,360 --> 00:45:00,000
book on just that topic specifically, not so much theology,

763
00:45:00,239 --> 00:45:06,800
but the WJ. Woodbook Epistemology Becoming Intellectually Virtuous. This book,

764
00:45:07,119 --> 00:45:10,519
it's a really really good book that's very readable and

765
00:45:10,599 --> 00:45:13,400
from a Christian perspective on epistemology.

766
00:45:13,440 --> 00:45:16,360
Speaker 2: So I would recommend checking out that book. Nikki, what's

767
00:45:16,440 --> 00:45:16,760
up man?

768
00:45:24,639 --> 00:45:25,400
Speaker 9: Hey Jay?

769
00:45:25,400 --> 00:45:25,960
Speaker 10: Can you hear me?

770
00:45:28,079 --> 00:45:28,920
Speaker 17: Yeah?

771
00:45:28,960 --> 00:45:31,800
Speaker 16: I kind of want to talk about philosophy, religion, science,

772
00:45:32,119 --> 00:45:36,000
constitutional republic. And then I thought I might hit on

773
00:45:36,039 --> 00:45:38,960
a few of the rejections as science that you've been

774
00:45:39,000 --> 00:45:40,159
going through, and.

775
00:45:40,159 --> 00:45:41,159
Speaker 9: Actually some of it.

776
00:45:41,280 --> 00:45:43,840
Speaker 16: If you would not reject science, it could actually further

777
00:45:44,000 --> 00:45:48,199
your cause. So I guess we could start there. I'll

778
00:45:48,199 --> 00:45:50,119
just go straight on to it on.

779
00:45:50,159 --> 00:45:53,159
Speaker 1: So, first of all, I don't, strictly speaking quote reject science.

780
00:45:53,880 --> 00:45:56,360
I made some posts and made some jokes about how

781
00:45:56,400 --> 00:45:58,559
I don't believe in science. That was a joke, But

782
00:45:58,960 --> 00:46:02,480
I do believe that the scientific method does enable human

783
00:46:02,480 --> 00:46:06,079
beings to hypothesize and master and learn the natural world,

784
00:46:06,159 --> 00:46:09,000
and that they can create refrigerators and computers.

785
00:46:08,800 --> 00:46:09,760
Speaker 2: Based on science.

786
00:46:10,159 --> 00:46:15,079
Speaker 1: I think science is properly speaking, things like engineering. But

787
00:46:15,199 --> 00:46:18,840
I don't believe that everything that quotes science in terms

788
00:46:18,840 --> 00:46:23,159
of some academic exercise at the top, people like at

789
00:46:23,159 --> 00:46:28,719
the Lancet or Harvard, that climate science and gender science,

790
00:46:28,760 --> 00:46:31,280
like all the things that are now called science, I'm

791
00:46:31,320 --> 00:46:33,480
generally skeptical of. So you need to be more precise

792
00:46:33,559 --> 00:46:35,639
and exactly what you think I'm rejecting.

793
00:46:36,239 --> 00:46:38,440
Speaker 10: Okay, so first of all, I agree with you.

794
00:46:38,519 --> 00:46:41,039
Speaker 16: I think there's a lot of Gaelian dialectics out there,

795
00:46:41,039 --> 00:46:43,320
and I think one of them is that religion is

796
00:46:43,360 --> 00:46:47,079
separate from science. I think if you operate with I

797
00:46:47,079 --> 00:46:50,000
think you can learn from the empiricists, the rationalist and

798
00:46:50,039 --> 00:46:55,800
the Enlightenment thinkers with the same presupposition that there is

799
00:46:56,360 --> 00:46:59,119
divine providence and a divine revelation.

800
00:47:00,159 --> 00:47:02,239
Speaker 2: So then you can use I don't disagree with any

801
00:47:02,239 --> 00:47:02,440
of that.

802
00:47:03,119 --> 00:47:06,199
Speaker 16: Yeah, then you can use those as secular tools that

803
00:47:06,360 --> 00:47:10,119
reveal what the creation is and how it's created, you know,

804
00:47:10,199 --> 00:47:10,679
et cetera.

805
00:47:11,199 --> 00:47:13,159
Speaker 2: Well, so when you say divine revelation, what are you

806
00:47:13,199 --> 00:47:14,239
referring to it? What does that mean?

807
00:47:15,599 --> 00:47:18,000
Speaker 16: Well, I mean, you know a lot of people point

808
00:47:18,039 --> 00:47:21,960
to things like sacred geometry, the Fibonacci sequence.

809
00:47:22,320 --> 00:47:23,880
Speaker 2: Are you a Mason? Are you a free Mason.

810
00:47:25,920 --> 00:47:27,159
Speaker 10: I've never been in a temple.

811
00:47:27,199 --> 00:47:29,119
Speaker 16: I've read a lot of manly Palmer Hall, I've read

812
00:47:29,199 --> 00:47:30,199
all kinds of stuff.

813
00:47:30,320 --> 00:47:31,880
Speaker 10: So what you're.

814
00:47:31,760 --> 00:47:34,280
Speaker 2: Giving is kind of like a Masonic perspective.

815
00:47:33,800 --> 00:47:38,920
Speaker 16: Right, it's influenced by that. Sure, Yeah, I'll confess to that.

816
00:47:39,519 --> 00:47:39,840
Speaker 2: Yeah.

817
00:47:39,880 --> 00:47:44,039
Speaker 1: So I don't deny that there's sacred geometry or any

818
00:47:44,039 --> 00:47:45,920
of that. But I mean I think that the problem

819
00:47:45,920 --> 00:47:47,639
I would have with that kind of take is like

820
00:47:48,039 --> 00:47:51,239
that ends up really just being deism and no.

821
00:47:51,360 --> 00:47:54,679
Speaker 2: Clear idea as to what the divine revelation is.

822
00:47:55,360 --> 00:47:58,199
Speaker 1: So, you know, if I read Morals and Dogma, you know,

823
00:47:58,760 --> 00:48:01,840
Albert Pike says, basically, all the religions are kind of

824
00:48:02,320 --> 00:48:05,960
generic revelation, and really they're teaching you the secret principles

825
00:48:06,000 --> 00:48:11,519
of geometry, and ultimately it's neoplatonism. And so basically it's

826
00:48:11,599 --> 00:48:13,079
not really any divine revelation.

827
00:48:13,159 --> 00:48:16,719
Speaker 2: It's just deism agnosticism.

828
00:48:16,760 --> 00:48:19,800
Speaker 1: And if we're at the point of like deism, that's

829
00:48:20,079 --> 00:48:24,039
a logical step before atheism. So why what do you

830
00:48:24,079 --> 00:48:26,320
even mean by divine revelation? There's no content to that.

831
00:48:28,280 --> 00:48:31,360
Speaker 16: Well, I have not read Albert Pike's Morals and Dogma,

832
00:48:31,559 --> 00:48:33,599
but I've read a lot of other texts, so I

833
00:48:33,639 --> 00:48:34,440
can't speak on that.

834
00:48:34,559 --> 00:48:36,280
Speaker 2: Well, Well, I mean I would imagine Maley Palmer.

835
00:48:36,320 --> 00:48:37,960
Speaker 1: I mean I've read some Maley Pee Hall, and I

836
00:48:38,000 --> 00:48:40,480
mean he, you know, in Secret Teaching, he basically says

837
00:48:40,559 --> 00:48:42,719
kind of the same type of stuff as Albert Pike.

838
00:48:42,920 --> 00:48:46,639
Speaker 16: So, I mean I read a lectures on Ancient Philosophy.

839
00:48:46,679 --> 00:48:48,960
I didn't read The Secret Teachings of All Ages. I

840
00:48:49,000 --> 00:48:52,719
read the companion book to it, Lectures on Ancient Philosophy.

841
00:48:52,719 --> 00:48:56,599
Speaker 1: Okay, anyway, whatever they think. The point is just that, like,

842
00:48:56,719 --> 00:48:58,480
what does it even mean to stay divine revelation?

843
00:49:02,199 --> 00:49:04,880
Speaker 16: Well, I guess what I'm referring to when I say

844
00:49:04,880 --> 00:49:07,480
that right now is I'm speaking of you know, when

845
00:49:07,519 --> 00:49:10,360
you talk about physics and geology and stuff. Let's go

846
00:49:10,440 --> 00:49:13,239
back to Gabriel's question for a second. Is the world

847
00:49:13,320 --> 00:49:16,039
old or new? It's like, why not both? And so

848
00:49:16,239 --> 00:49:18,719
what I mean by that is, you know, we as humans,

849
00:49:18,719 --> 00:49:22,719
we're operating with either a geocentric or a heliocentric worldview.

850
00:49:22,760 --> 00:49:23,320
Speaker 9: But who's to.

851
00:49:23,280 --> 00:49:25,800
Speaker 16: Say God is you know, we at least know there's

852
00:49:25,840 --> 00:49:29,039
a galaxy and a universe. And then who's to say that,

853
00:49:29,400 --> 00:49:31,840
you know, if there is a heaven, which you know,

854
00:49:31,880 --> 00:49:34,000
when they talk about a heaven, it's like, who's to

855
00:49:34,000 --> 00:49:37,440
say there's not a warden of this universe Jesus or

856
00:49:37,599 --> 00:49:41,400
you know, God or something that that decides whether or

857
00:49:41,440 --> 00:49:42,840
not you can go to heaven? And so what if

858
00:49:42,840 --> 00:49:46,800
heaven is the multiverse where you you understand the laws

859
00:49:46,840 --> 00:49:50,199
of natural law and you have to apply to principles

860
00:49:50,239 --> 00:49:56,760
of natural law. And maybe maybe there's also people you know,

861
00:49:56,840 --> 00:50:02,119
with informed consent, maybe you know they can visit each

862
00:50:02,119 --> 00:50:02,760
other in heaven.

863
00:50:02,800 --> 00:50:03,159
Speaker 10: I don't know.

864
00:50:03,280 --> 00:50:04,039
Speaker 19: I don't really know.

865
00:50:03,960 --> 00:50:05,000
Speaker 2: What what.

866
00:50:08,840 --> 00:50:09,760
Speaker 10: I'm talking about is.

867
00:50:10,440 --> 00:50:13,599
Speaker 16: Like, all these different denominations of Christianity are very confusing

868
00:50:13,639 --> 00:50:16,079
to me on what their worldview of the afterlife is.

869
00:50:16,119 --> 00:50:17,119
Speaker 15: I don't even know what it is.

870
00:50:17,159 --> 00:50:19,000
Speaker 16: And most of them are just making stuff up.

871
00:50:19,079 --> 00:50:26,480
Speaker 2: And That's what I'm talking about, Okay, Like, look, I agree.

872
00:50:26,679 --> 00:50:33,519
In the multiverse, the Demiurge is Tattoo from Fantasy Island,

873
00:50:34,159 --> 00:50:37,719
and he determines whether or not you have informed consent

874
00:50:37,840 --> 00:50:41,199
to talk to your loved ones. Again, go watch Contact.

875
00:50:41,719 --> 00:50:43,320
When Jodie Foster goes.

876
00:50:43,079 --> 00:50:48,320
Speaker 1: Into the atheist alien space Heaven, she talks to her dad,

877
00:50:48,880 --> 00:50:53,119
but that was only with the informed consent of Tattoo

878
00:50:53,519 --> 00:50:54,480
from Fantasy Island.

879
00:50:55,039 --> 00:51:00,840
Speaker 2: He is the Demiurge, Alex, what's up? It's not the plane,

880
00:51:00,840 --> 00:51:03,440
the plane, it's the ship. The ship. It's the spaceship

881
00:51:03,960 --> 00:51:06,760
us this ship, this ship? What's up? Man?

882
00:51:09,280 --> 00:51:09,920
Speaker 20: Hey, Jake.

883
00:51:11,360 --> 00:51:12,119
Speaker 10: Uh So?

884
00:51:13,199 --> 00:51:14,400
Speaker 4: Through watching the stream.

885
00:51:14,159 --> 00:51:17,039
Speaker 20: Tonight, I I just have a quick question.

886
00:51:18,000 --> 00:51:20,440
Speaker 21: Sorry if this comes off a little silly, but I

887
00:51:20,480 --> 00:51:23,480
just genuinely want to know, what do you think the

888
00:51:23,519 --> 00:51:29,360
compatibility of being an orthodox Christian living in Bitcoin island.

889
00:51:30,280 --> 00:51:33,320
Speaker 20: How would that be feasible? Like, I don't think do

890
00:51:33,360 --> 00:51:34,920
you think they would include.

891
00:51:34,519 --> 00:51:37,360
Speaker 21: An Orthodox church on the Bitcoin island, Like, how would

892
00:51:37,360 --> 00:51:41,360
you go about doing Orthodox you know, faith, you know,

893
00:51:41,480 --> 00:51:42,760
how would you go about doing that.

894
00:51:42,719 --> 00:51:48,039
Speaker 1: On the Bitcoin I guess is gonna be a bitcoin state.

895
00:51:48,119 --> 00:51:50,599
I'm sure that there could be an Orthodox church and

896
00:51:50,639 --> 00:51:53,159
a like why would those things be incompatible?

897
00:51:54,599 --> 00:51:58,119
Speaker 20: Because the first thing when I think about bitcoin, just

898
00:51:58,280 --> 00:52:02,599
bitcoin things related and like bitcoin communities whatever, I don't

899
00:52:02,639 --> 00:52:05,079
think they're like Orthodox first, you know, I really don't

900
00:52:05,079 --> 00:52:06,360
think they would carry if there's an.

901
00:52:06,679 --> 00:52:08,119
Speaker 2: America is not Orthodox first?

902
00:52:08,800 --> 00:52:11,800
Speaker 1: Well no, no, no country except for maybe one or

903
00:52:11,840 --> 00:52:14,679
two at least on paper, is Orthodox first.

904
00:52:14,760 --> 00:52:19,000
Speaker 21: So so then do you don't you think there's like

905
00:52:19,119 --> 00:52:22,079
a path or there's like a there's gonna be a

906
00:52:22,400 --> 00:52:23,920
come a point where you're just gonna have to give

907
00:52:24,039 --> 00:52:27,559
up on the whole thing of living in a bitcoin civilization, right, Like,

908
00:52:27,880 --> 00:52:30,320
don't you think at some point it's going to become unfeasible?

909
00:52:30,599 --> 00:52:34,039
Speaker 4: You know, like this idea of well.

910
00:52:33,880 --> 00:52:36,159
Speaker 1: I don't know what I mean, the you know, we

911
00:52:36,239 --> 00:52:38,320
could all die tomorrow and there could be into the

912
00:52:38,360 --> 00:52:40,199
world tomorrow. So yeah, I don't know, but I mean,

913
00:52:40,239 --> 00:52:42,800
there might be another two thousand and five thousand.

914
00:52:42,599 --> 00:52:45,760
Speaker 2: Years left of the earth. So since we don't know, like,

915
00:52:47,519 --> 00:52:50,000
how is that just how is that a defeat for

916
00:52:50,880 --> 00:52:51,360
why a.

917
00:52:53,440 --> 00:52:58,639
Speaker 1: Libertarian fantasy island, bigcoin island wouldn't work. I mean, I mean,

918
00:52:58,960 --> 00:53:04,039
America hold on America is a worse scenario than say,

919
00:53:04,119 --> 00:53:08,320
Bitcoin island for hypothetical purposes. Here, America is far more

920
00:53:09,400 --> 00:53:13,440
anti Orthodoxy being first than Bitcoin island would be.

921
00:53:13,639 --> 00:53:16,239
Speaker 2: So I don't understand the argument.

922
00:53:17,760 --> 00:53:19,519
Speaker 20: No, it wasn't really an argument.

923
00:53:19,559 --> 00:53:21,880
Speaker 21: I was just wondering, you know, like how someone of

924
00:53:22,039 --> 00:53:26,159
orthodox or really any religion from any standpoint, honestly, like,

925
00:53:26,280 --> 00:53:28,800
how they could live in one of those communities, because

926
00:53:28,800 --> 00:53:31,960
I don't think any sort of bitcoin community would really

927
00:53:32,000 --> 00:53:33,880
even care about religion, honestly, I don't.

928
00:53:33,920 --> 00:53:35,679
Speaker 4: I think they would eventually become like.

929
00:53:36,000 --> 00:53:37,519
Speaker 20: Just come to the point where we don't even need religion,

930
00:53:37,559 --> 00:53:39,760
you know, we're just we're just a bitcoin community, and

931
00:53:39,880 --> 00:53:42,159
they might just become like some kind of weird bitcoin cult,

932
00:53:42,199 --> 00:53:42,679
you know what I mean.

933
00:53:42,800 --> 00:53:43,719
Speaker 2: Well, that could happen.

934
00:53:44,280 --> 00:53:47,760
Speaker 1: But again, if bitcoin becomes like let's say, for the

935
00:53:47,800 --> 00:53:51,159
sake of argument, it becomes like the future currency or

936
00:53:51,559 --> 00:53:55,519
world reserve currency or whatever. Like would that mean that

937
00:53:55,960 --> 00:54:01,199
that Orthodoxy goes away because there's a new currency, or or.

938
00:54:01,159 --> 00:54:05,719
Speaker 21: Would Orthodox he uh create their own bitcoin infused community.

939
00:54:05,719 --> 00:54:10,039
Do you think that could be something that could happen. Well, yeah, yeah,

940
00:54:12,159 --> 00:54:15,800
think bitcoin island is only for U or Orthodox.

941
00:54:15,480 --> 00:54:19,440
Speaker 1: Well actually on the libertarian ethos, yeah, that would be

942
00:54:19,760 --> 00:54:21,599
entirely They would have to argue that they would have

943
00:54:21,679 --> 00:54:25,199
to argue that Orthodox could set up their island of

944
00:54:25,639 --> 00:54:29,920
uh you know, Orthodox fantasy island that runs on bitcoin.

945
00:54:30,360 --> 00:54:33,559
Speaker 21: Sure, sorry, this is another silly thing to say too,

946
00:54:33,679 --> 00:54:35,840
but like do you think do you think Jesus would

947
00:54:35,880 --> 00:54:39,159
approve of Like, yes, I want I want my Orthodox

948
00:54:39,239 --> 00:54:41,840
community to you know, have bitcoin, Like I don't know,

949
00:54:41,880 --> 00:54:43,880
it sounds stupid, but like you's trying to say, like

950
00:54:44,199 --> 00:54:46,760
you think Jesus would be cool with like the whole bitcoin.

951
00:54:46,480 --> 00:54:47,239
Speaker 4: Structure and all that.

952
00:54:48,039 --> 00:54:53,280
Speaker 1: Well, given that it's the opposite of debt based slave money. Yes,

953
00:54:53,480 --> 00:54:55,679
in fact, it's better than gold. I mean the Bible

954
00:54:55,760 --> 00:54:59,159
says to use fair weights and measures, which means that

955
00:54:59,239 --> 00:55:03,519
you don't rip off with monetary transactions and proverbs. That's

956
00:55:03,559 --> 00:55:05,079
the entire purpose of big one.

957
00:55:06,199 --> 00:55:08,480
Speaker 21: All right, well, thank you very much, Sae, appreciate your time.

958
00:55:09,599 --> 00:55:13,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean every not you, but every objection that

959
00:55:13,079 --> 00:55:18,400
people have turns ten times worse on Fiat currency. So

960
00:55:18,920 --> 00:55:20,760
I want to see if people really believe the stuff

961
00:55:20,800 --> 00:55:22,480
they're saying. Then I want to see you guys like

962
00:55:22,599 --> 00:55:25,599
totally not using fiat because it's like ten times worse

963
00:55:25,639 --> 00:55:29,679
with fiat. And by the way, if you read the scriptures,

964
00:55:30,199 --> 00:55:33,360
it does not ever say that money itself is evil.

965
00:55:34,920 --> 00:55:38,079
It doesn't say gold itself is evil. It says that

966
00:55:38,599 --> 00:55:43,280
unjust weights and measures, and you know, enslaving people with

967
00:55:43,440 --> 00:55:49,119
usury is what's evil. So that presupposes that we ought

968
00:55:49,280 --> 00:55:52,599
to be just in our transactions. And take, for example,

969
00:55:52,800 --> 00:55:55,880
the first thousand years of Christianity had, as everyone knows,

970
00:55:55,960 --> 00:56:01,480
both East and West, prohibition on Christians using usury. That

971
00:56:01,679 --> 00:56:04,679
right there shows you that the Church told and spoke

972
00:56:04,760 --> 00:56:08,280
to the culture that you weren't supposed to engage in

973
00:56:08,679 --> 00:56:13,800
those types of money abusive scenarios. So the idea that

974
00:56:14,000 --> 00:56:16,360
like Jesus has nothing to do with the political order

975
00:56:16,480 --> 00:56:18,800
or this kind of stuff that's all like weird Protestant

976
00:56:18,840 --> 00:56:19,800
gnostic type stuff.

977
00:56:21,159 --> 00:56:26,840
Speaker 2: Uh, pepe, what's up, hatty?

978
00:56:26,960 --> 00:56:31,559
Speaker 22: Hattie that was abrupt, So yeah, I get just sort

979
00:56:31,559 --> 00:56:34,159
of joined the conversation. So, uh, sticking on the theme

980
00:56:34,199 --> 00:56:36,280
of bitcoin, what if what if Trump all of a

981
00:56:36,320 --> 00:56:39,360
sudden decided to accept bitcoin or doge and we were

982
00:56:39,400 --> 00:56:41,719
able to circumvent the Fed because you've got to figure

983
00:56:41,760 --> 00:56:45,760
England wanted to force the US colonies to use the

984
00:56:45,800 --> 00:56:49,239
pound sterling an interest and we were like, I screw that,

985
00:56:49,360 --> 00:56:49,960
We're done here.

986
00:56:50,280 --> 00:56:51,360
Speaker 4: And then the FED does it.

987
00:56:51,440 --> 00:56:54,599
Speaker 22: Everyone's like, oh, yeah, that sounds good, So like it's

988
00:56:55,079 --> 00:56:58,280
it's kind of goofy. And then like on the actual

989
00:56:58,519 --> 00:57:01,039
theme of the thing, one thing I can never get

990
00:57:01,039 --> 00:57:03,800
an answer on is why do people believe the Old

991
00:57:03,880 --> 00:57:06,480
Testament just like by itself.

992
00:57:08,480 --> 00:57:11,880
Speaker 1: Well, well, to answer the first question, the question was

993
00:57:12,440 --> 00:57:19,400
if Trump is pro bitcoin and crypto, could its go

994
00:57:19,639 --> 00:57:21,440
around or subvert the Federal Reserve?

995
00:57:22,639 --> 00:57:23,719
Speaker 2: I mean, I think the Federal.

996
00:57:23,519 --> 00:57:28,079
Speaker 1: Reserve is kind of connected to the old legacy fiat system.

997
00:57:28,199 --> 00:57:31,400
Speaker 2: It's really the embodiment of that. I think that old

998
00:57:31,400 --> 00:57:35,119
system is eventually dying, so if the dollar is to survive,

999
00:57:35,360 --> 00:57:37,440
it's going to have to in some.

1000
00:57:37,639 --> 00:57:42,079
Speaker 1: Way you marry bitcoin. However, they do this with strategic

1001
00:57:42,159 --> 00:57:43,360
reserve or whatever.

1002
00:57:43,400 --> 00:57:43,599
Speaker 18: They do.

1003
00:57:43,719 --> 00:57:49,119
Speaker 2: I don't know. I think that's the only lifeline for

1004
00:57:49,400 --> 00:57:53,679
the dollar. As for the Old Testament, I mean, one.

1005
00:57:53,760 --> 00:57:56,679
Speaker 1: Reason that many people believe it is that it had

1006
00:57:56,800 --> 00:57:59,679
so many prophecies of the time of Christ's birth that

1007
00:57:59,719 --> 00:58:02,360
were accurate, as well as his life, ministry and what

1008
00:58:02,360 --> 00:58:03,320
would happen afterwards.

1009
00:58:06,199 --> 00:58:08,519
Speaker 22: Well yeah, but that's especially if you look at it

1010
00:58:08,559 --> 00:58:11,079
through the lens of apologetics, and like that is like

1011
00:58:11,159 --> 00:58:12,000
the most common thing.

1012
00:58:12,039 --> 00:58:12,480
Speaker 19: I figure.

1013
00:58:12,519 --> 00:58:14,639
Speaker 22: It's like, well, I like this one book, so by

1014
00:58:14,719 --> 00:58:19,119
default I have to like this other book. But it's

1015
00:58:19,199 --> 00:58:22,119
kind of strange, like the variations and how much people

1016
00:58:22,239 --> 00:58:25,000
really believe it. So like I'll talk to a rabbi

1017
00:58:25,079 --> 00:58:27,119
and he'll be like, yeah, you know, it's just important

1018
00:58:27,159 --> 00:58:31,599
cultural stories. A lot of it is historical fiction, a

1019
00:58:31,679 --> 00:58:33,519
lot of it's not to be taken literally. And then

1020
00:58:33,559 --> 00:58:37,320
you got like the infallibilists and the literalists and they're like, no,

1021
00:58:37,519 --> 00:58:41,800
every single word actually happened, Jodah and the belly. Like

1022
00:58:43,559 --> 00:58:46,199
it's just like if people were to isolate just the

1023
00:58:46,280 --> 00:58:52,760
Old Testament without the Jesus parts, like cause there are

1024
00:58:52,840 --> 00:58:55,760
still Jews, but it's like I don't even know why,

1025
00:58:56,079 --> 00:59:00,960
Like I was people tell me I'm Jewish because birth things.

1026
00:59:01,360 --> 00:59:05,960
But yeah, I still I don't even believe the Old Testament,

1027
00:59:06,000 --> 00:59:07,119
so I can't believe the New Testament.

1028
00:59:07,159 --> 00:59:10,360
Speaker 1: Well, I mean most most right, Well, and actually most

1029
00:59:10,480 --> 00:59:13,519
Jews don't actually believe the Old Testament. They believe, if

1030
00:59:13,559 --> 00:59:17,480
they're serious, they believe the Talmud, which takes precedence over

1031
00:59:18,360 --> 00:59:21,400
the Old Testament. But I'm saying that in general, outside

1032
00:59:21,400 --> 00:59:25,440
of Judaism, the reason people would believe that the Old

1033
00:59:25,440 --> 00:59:30,239
Testament profits or profits is because of many precise predictions

1034
00:59:30,280 --> 00:59:31,360
about Christ himself.

1035
00:59:31,519 --> 00:59:32,800
Speaker 23: So not.

1036
00:59:34,880 --> 00:59:37,599
Speaker 2: Like one or two things, but many, many, many, many

1037
00:59:37,679 --> 00:59:52,039
many predictions. Daniel, what's up? Starting to get a headache?

1038
00:59:52,039 --> 00:59:54,159
So I'm I mean, I'm gonna keep going because we've

1039
00:59:54,159 --> 00:59:57,920
still got twenty one people requesting to debate. That's crazy,

1040
01:00:00,440 --> 01:00:00,840
are you there?

1041
01:00:00,920 --> 01:00:01,039
Speaker 9: Man?

1042
01:00:01,079 --> 01:00:06,239
Speaker 2: What's up? Christian? Three dollars? Jay?

1043
01:00:06,280 --> 01:00:08,960
Speaker 1: I was thinking about Protestants. My church is Wesley and

1044
01:00:09,000 --> 01:00:12,719
I'm blown away by the spirit moving in my church.

1045
01:00:15,000 --> 01:00:17,119
Speaker 2: I mean, that's kind of subjective. I don't know what

1046
01:00:17,280 --> 01:00:21,400
you mean. Like, so like some bum comes in and

1047
01:00:21,559 --> 01:00:23,599
decides he wants to enter AA.

1048
01:00:23,679 --> 01:00:24,000
Speaker 7: Like is that?

1049
01:00:24,119 --> 01:00:26,679
Speaker 2: I mean, I don't know what that means. I know

1050
01:00:27,079 --> 01:00:32,880
many go too far, but I don't think all yeah,

1051
01:00:32,920 --> 01:00:34,960
but I just I still don't think that what you're

1052
01:00:35,039 --> 01:00:35,559
calling the.

1053
01:00:35,599 --> 01:00:39,440
Speaker 1: Movements of the Holy Spirit necessarily quote prove that the

1054
01:00:39,719 --> 01:00:43,480
Methodists or the Church. I mean, I could be at

1055
01:00:43,559 --> 01:00:46,480
AA and a dude come in and like, you know,

1056
01:00:47,840 --> 01:00:49,880
he wants to quit drinking or whatever, and that's a

1057
01:00:49,920 --> 01:00:52,079
good thing. But I wouldn't say that, oh cee AA

1058
01:00:52,239 --> 01:00:53,880
is the true Church because look at look at the

1059
01:00:53,920 --> 01:00:56,239
positive effect. It's just not enough to say what the

1060
01:00:56,280 --> 01:00:59,119
true church is. Agent zero five dollars work as safe

1061
01:00:59,119 --> 01:01:01,159
for a I watch a lot of boomers buy artificial

1062
01:01:01,199 --> 01:01:04,320
foods all day long. Boomers love fake food. Uh yeah,

1063
01:01:04,920 --> 01:01:06,960
something about it. By the way, what do you think

1064
01:01:07,000 --> 01:01:08,880
of dark journalists? He was on info Wars a couple

1065
01:01:08,920 --> 01:01:11,000
of times. He seems like a morn to me, no

1066
01:01:11,079 --> 01:01:15,199
respect to AJ. I met dark journalist. The first time

1067
01:01:15,239 --> 01:01:15,559
I ever.

1068
01:01:15,480 --> 01:01:18,159
Speaker 2: Did a speaking engagement was at a.

1069
01:01:19,679 --> 01:01:22,639
Speaker 1: Secret it's called the Secret Space Program. Of course, I

1070
01:01:22,760 --> 01:01:24,760
was just there to talk about movies. You can still

1071
01:01:24,800 --> 01:01:26,880
watch that video on YouTube.

1072
01:01:26,880 --> 01:01:27,559
Speaker 2: It's called.

1073
01:01:29,079 --> 01:01:32,079
Speaker 1: It's like Esoteric Hollywood or something. It's like the first

1074
01:01:32,159 --> 01:01:35,920
presentation that I'm doing with slides behind me from like

1075
01:01:36,000 --> 01:01:38,440
twenty fourteen or fifteen, that's when I did.

1076
01:01:38,440 --> 01:01:41,320
Speaker 2: It might be uploaded later. But he was a nice

1077
01:01:41,360 --> 01:01:42,000
guy in person.

1078
01:01:42,199 --> 01:01:44,519
Speaker 1: We didn't really spend much time talking, so I don't

1079
01:01:44,840 --> 01:01:46,199
I never really heard his views.

1080
01:01:47,679 --> 01:01:49,280
Speaker 2: I heard about half.

1081
01:01:49,199 --> 01:01:50,920
Speaker 1: Of the interview that he did the other day with AJ,

1082
01:01:51,199 --> 01:01:53,280
so I don't know enough about his positions.

1083
01:01:53,400 --> 01:01:56,519
Speaker 2: But does he believe in aliens?

1084
01:01:56,519 --> 01:01:59,880
Speaker 1: I'm not even sure what his views Jacob ten dollars.

1085
01:02:00,360 --> 01:02:02,599
My family and I were received Orthodoxy after I grew

1086
01:02:02,599 --> 01:02:04,239
at Roman Catholic I was then a set of a

1087
01:02:04,280 --> 01:02:06,880
contest for a time at same situation here. Glad to

1088
01:02:06,880 --> 01:02:09,119
hear that, Jacob, I can't thank you enough for your work.

1089
01:02:09,159 --> 01:02:09,679
Speaker 2: Thank you so much.

1090
01:02:09,719 --> 01:02:09,840
Speaker 9: Man.

1091
01:02:09,920 --> 01:02:12,199
Speaker 2: Glad to hear that. I think you're gonna find it

1092
01:02:12,519 --> 01:02:13,239
a much more.

1093
01:02:14,760 --> 01:02:20,000
Speaker 1: Peaceful, freeing situation than the trad crazy, trad cat world. Now,

1094
01:02:20,400 --> 01:02:24,000
everybody should keep in mind like the Orthodox world is

1095
01:02:24,119 --> 01:02:25,519
not problem free.

1096
01:02:26,559 --> 01:02:27,159
Speaker 2: There's a lot of.

1097
01:02:28,960 --> 01:02:33,559
Speaker 1: Annoying people in the Orthodox world. You're gonna meet priests

1098
01:02:33,679 --> 01:02:36,119
that will make you mad, You're gonna meet bishops that

1099
01:02:36,320 --> 01:02:37,960
let you down. I mean that you're gonna have bad

1100
01:02:38,000 --> 01:02:40,679
experiences in the Orthodox world too. So everybody should be

1101
01:02:40,719 --> 01:02:46,880
aware that you're not escaping problems by becoming Orthodox. It's

1102
01:02:46,920 --> 01:02:49,320
just different problems, right, So like the problems in the

1103
01:02:49,400 --> 01:02:52,639
Roman Catholic world, this many many years removed from that,

1104
01:02:54,239 --> 01:02:56,360
so I kind of don't even remember what that was

1105
01:02:56,519 --> 01:03:00,800
like anymore. But I would ever go back to the

1106
01:03:00,920 --> 01:03:03,440
Romancolic position ever. But you know, it's not like you're

1107
01:03:03,480 --> 01:03:06,280
gonna because you're still dealing with human beings, so you're

1108
01:03:06,320 --> 01:03:11,639
still gonna deal with, you know, difficult people. My situation

1109
01:03:11,800 --> 01:03:15,320
might be worse because of being public profile or.

1110
01:03:15,360 --> 01:03:18,400
Speaker 2: Whatever, but.

1111
01:03:20,920 --> 01:03:23,159
Speaker 1: I would over I would say, overall though most of

1112
01:03:23,280 --> 01:03:25,880
the experiences I've had, even though I've had several bad experiences,

1113
01:03:26,000 --> 01:03:27,920
most of my experiences have been good, Like most of

1114
01:03:28,039 --> 01:03:30,920
the Orthodox people that I've met spent time with. Everybody's great,

1115
01:03:31,840 --> 01:03:34,920
it's just a minority of kind of vicious, malicious people.

1116
01:03:35,559 --> 01:03:39,119
Speaker 2: User two O nine five dollars? Have you ever read Gogol?

1117
01:03:39,280 --> 01:03:40,280
Especially as short stories?

1118
01:03:40,280 --> 01:03:40,360
Speaker 18: Now?

1119
01:03:40,400 --> 01:03:42,440
Speaker 2: Actually, I think my priest was telling me to read

1120
01:03:42,480 --> 01:03:46,159
gogle so I need to get to that. What is

1121
01:03:46,199 --> 01:03:47,519
your opinion of them? I don't know.

1122
01:03:49,880 --> 01:03:52,400
Speaker 1: Weren't Dosciewski and flannering Ot Connor fans. I think I've

1123
01:03:52,440 --> 01:03:55,679
heard that. I think Father Vladimir told me that I

1124
01:03:55,719 --> 01:03:59,280
do need to read that doctor Chilling five dollars a

1125
01:03:59,440 --> 01:04:00,400
homeboyd I'll.

1126
01:04:00,239 --> 01:04:04,119
Speaker 2: Be triggered by Bobby's perspective. I'm not triggered.

1127
01:04:04,199 --> 01:04:08,840
Speaker 1: It's just that, I mean, if you go back, like

1128
01:04:08,920 --> 01:04:11,840
four years ago, Tristan was having Bobby on all the

1129
01:04:11,920 --> 01:04:14,639
time and they were talking about Orthodox stuff, that was

1130
01:04:14,679 --> 01:04:16,760
you know, Tristan was kind of new to look at

1131
01:04:16,760 --> 01:04:19,800
an Orthodoxy, maybe even twenty nineteen eighteen somewhere in there,

1132
01:04:20,199 --> 01:04:20,519
and then.

1133
01:04:20,480 --> 01:04:25,840
Speaker 24: Bobby was like, Orthodox, so let's talk about Orthodoxy and diets.

1134
01:04:26,000 --> 01:04:28,559
And then suddenly it's like I didn't even realize that

1135
01:04:28,760 --> 01:04:31,000
they talked the triunity is pigan.

1136
01:04:32,159 --> 01:04:34,159
Speaker 2: That's a bad Bobby. I can do a better Bobby

1137
01:04:34,159 --> 01:04:37,719
if and Tristan does a really good Bobby. But I'm

1138
01:04:37,760 --> 01:04:41,760
not triggered by him. I just think it's goofy. He's Bulgarian,

1139
01:04:43,280 --> 01:04:47,559
vegan meat eater. He's now Muslim.

1140
01:04:48,239 --> 01:04:51,760
Speaker 1: However, I cannot imagine a bigger grifter than Bobby. He

1141
01:04:51,800 --> 01:04:53,559
will never do a debate, no, I know that, Like

1142
01:04:53,679 --> 01:04:56,239
we we tried to get Bobby to not even do

1143
01:04:56,360 --> 01:05:02,119
a debate, but to come have a discussion, and he

1144
01:05:02,119 --> 01:05:04,599
wouldn't even do that, so of course he's not gonna

1145
01:05:04,599 --> 01:05:05,039
do a debate.

1146
01:05:06,159 --> 01:05:08,760
Speaker 2: Bobby C. Ten dollars, Good evening. I am blocked on X.

1147
01:05:08,960 --> 01:05:12,480
Was it by accident? Did I do something? Would you

1148
01:05:12,519 --> 01:05:14,320
consider unblocking me? I don't know.

1149
01:05:15,239 --> 01:05:17,519
Speaker 1: I block a lot of people because basically, if I

1150
01:05:17,960 --> 01:05:25,000
sense idiocy, it's a media block. So perhaps I made

1151
01:05:25,000 --> 01:05:28,400
a mistake, perhaps you were an idiot, perhaps.

1152
01:05:28,719 --> 01:05:30,559
Speaker 2: None of the above, and I accidentally hit a button

1153
01:05:30,639 --> 01:05:31,000
or something.

1154
01:05:32,079 --> 01:05:33,719
Speaker 1: I don't know who you are because when I type

1155
01:05:33,719 --> 01:05:36,639
in Bobby C, I don't see anybody's profile that comes

1156
01:05:36,719 --> 01:05:39,320
up Bobby C. So you got to tell me what

1157
01:05:39,360 --> 01:05:42,719
your profile is to unblock you, because, to be honest

1158
01:05:42,719 --> 01:05:45,840
with you, I have about probably three thousand people blocked,

1159
01:05:47,000 --> 01:05:50,320
so and my life is pretty good when it comes

1160
01:05:50,320 --> 01:05:53,519
a lot of Like I don't if somebody's really ridiculous

1161
01:05:53,639 --> 01:05:56,039
unless they later come and apologize, Like I'm happy.

1162
01:05:55,920 --> 01:06:01,840
Speaker 2: Just not interacting with a lot of idiots. Schooma bear

1163
01:06:01,960 --> 01:06:02,320
ten dollars.

1164
01:06:02,360 --> 01:06:04,320
Speaker 1: My friend wanted to ask what you thought about calling

1165
01:06:04,400 --> 01:06:07,639
Jesus an avatar. I mean that's kind of like a

1166
01:06:07,840 --> 01:06:10,519
typically a new age hinduist.

1167
01:06:10,760 --> 01:06:14,159
Speaker 2: You know type of concept. It's not doesn't really make sense.

1168
01:06:14,239 --> 01:06:17,280
And because it suggests that there are many avatars, right

1169
01:06:18,079 --> 01:06:20,559
and no, we think Jesus has way truth in the life.

1170
01:06:21,239 --> 01:06:23,639
Speaker 1: Tony teb ten dollars, blessings to the family, Thank you

1171
01:06:23,760 --> 01:06:26,239
so much. Do you mean Charles Manson's family or mine?

1172
01:06:26,920 --> 01:06:31,000
Speaker 2: Ultra three dollars. Hey, this is how I see you.

1173
01:06:33,039 --> 01:06:37,840
Speaker 1: You're sending me YouTube video links that I can't see

1174
01:06:37,920 --> 01:06:41,920
on stream labs. Mister goofy, have you watched Secret Level?

1175
01:06:42,000 --> 01:06:42,760
Speaker 2: No, I don't know what that is.

1176
01:06:42,960 --> 01:06:48,360
Speaker 1: Space Marines equals Bays demon slayers, Gay dire baysed demon slayer. Oh,

1177
01:06:48,440 --> 01:06:51,760
it sounds like an extreme evangelical who is going.

1178
01:06:51,679 --> 01:06:53,360
Speaker 2: To put me in my place? Why don't you call

1179
01:06:53,440 --> 01:06:54,800
in Ultra.

1180
01:06:56,239 --> 01:06:59,239
Speaker 1: I can't see what your YouTube videos are that you're

1181
01:06:59,360 --> 01:07:01,920
posting and turner five dollars. When I try to follow

1182
01:07:02,000 --> 01:07:05,679
the line of all who accredits theological schools in America,

1183
01:07:06,400 --> 01:07:10,480
I come to ats. I can't find any real information

1184
01:07:10,599 --> 01:07:13,760
on this or its affiliations. This seems strange to be

1185
01:07:13,840 --> 01:07:17,000
such an opaque organization for holding so much power.

1186
01:07:17,079 --> 01:07:17,760
Speaker 2: This is a good question.

1187
01:07:17,840 --> 01:07:19,440
Speaker 1: In fact, somebody brought this up the other day, like

1188
01:07:20,400 --> 01:07:22,159
because there was a discussion in one of my mod

1189
01:07:22,719 --> 01:07:29,119
chats about like who who decides accreditation? And I mean,

1190
01:07:29,159 --> 01:07:30,679
on one level, it makes sense that there would be

1191
01:07:30,760 --> 01:07:33,480
some kind of accredited crediting thing, but on the other hand,

1192
01:07:33,880 --> 01:07:36,440
like I've been in academia and grad school and all that,

1193
01:07:36,679 --> 01:07:37,880
and I've been in.

1194
01:07:37,960 --> 01:07:44,880
Speaker 2: Schools that were not accredited and accredited. So uh, accreditation usually.

1195
01:07:44,639 --> 01:07:46,920
Speaker 1: Generally speaking, is just a tool of control because they

1196
01:07:47,000 --> 01:07:50,119
decide that, oh, well, if you're going to be accredited,

1197
01:07:50,159 --> 01:07:52,559
you're going to teach blah blah blah blah blah. And

1198
01:07:53,400 --> 01:07:55,559
I feel sure nowadays that that's all a bunch of

1199
01:07:55,639 --> 01:08:00,440
woke crt stuff. So I would imagine your ap absolutely

1200
01:08:00,519 --> 01:08:03,400
on point here that whoever does this, and I've never

1201
01:08:03,440 --> 01:08:08,079
actually looked into this, it is probably some shady United

1202
01:08:08,159 --> 01:08:12,360
Nations rock filler globalist institution California prober one dollar. How

1203
01:08:12,400 --> 01:08:15,679
can something create a be eternal? Well, God creates a

1204
01:08:15,880 --> 01:08:22,640
timeless eternity, so that's one, so look up again, So

1205
01:08:23,079 --> 01:08:26,239
meaning that it's not subject to the motions of space

1206
01:08:26,319 --> 01:08:30,960
and time. It's hence a time less created eternity. Why

1207
01:08:31,039 --> 01:08:34,079
can't there be a created eternity? If God creates us

1208
01:08:34,279 --> 01:08:36,880
to be creatures who are eternal, so there can be

1209
01:08:37,000 --> 01:08:41,640
created eternities because we are created eternities. Look at the

1210
01:08:41,720 --> 01:08:47,199
medieval theologians called this all eternity ae, the eternity, all

1211
01:08:47,199 --> 01:08:51,079
of eternity, So that shows that there's nothing inherently impossible

1212
01:08:51,079 --> 01:08:58,159
about a creative thing being given eternality. But it's just

1213
01:08:58,279 --> 01:09:04,880
not discussed a lot in theology because most people don't

1214
01:09:04,920 --> 01:09:21,079
read Maximus Confessor and you need to read UH Laws

1215
01:09:21,079 --> 01:09:22,279
Scus Dogmatic Theology.

1216
01:09:31,520 --> 01:09:31,640
Speaker 18: UH.

1217
01:09:31,840 --> 01:09:34,680
Speaker 1: For example, even Protestant websites know that when you look

1218
01:09:34,760 --> 01:09:39,159
up the word aon, it means simply a boundless time,

1219
01:09:44,039 --> 01:09:45,279
aon in.

1220
01:09:45,359 --> 01:09:50,399
Speaker 2: Greek timeless eternal essence. So for us, they're obviously there's

1221
01:09:50,439 --> 01:09:51,000
not gods.

1222
01:09:54,479 --> 01:09:57,640
Speaker 1: And in fact, in the Latin the word is avonm,

1223
01:10:00,159 --> 01:10:03,319
which in the Greek is aon, and which I'm telling

1224
01:10:03,359 --> 01:10:06,079
you in the theology is a timeless eternity.

1225
01:10:06,239 --> 01:10:09,399
Speaker 2: So go look up what I'm telling you.

1226
01:10:09,520 --> 01:10:13,039
Speaker 1: Go read the book vy Vladimir Lowski Dogmatic Theology and

1227
01:10:13,079 --> 01:10:16,319
read the five pages on the timeless aon.

1228
01:10:18,199 --> 01:10:28,239
Speaker 2: I'm not going to recommend that website. I've never heard

1229
01:10:28,279 --> 01:10:32,199
anybody talk about this, by the way, until I read

1230
01:10:32,239 --> 01:10:32,880
it in Losky.

1231
01:10:45,079 --> 01:10:46,960
Speaker 1: It doesn't even look like you can really find even

1232
01:10:47,000 --> 01:11:04,520
any Orthodox websites discussing it. Even in Plato, the word aon.

1233
01:11:05,840 --> 01:11:05,960
Speaker 25: Is in.

1234
01:11:06,079 --> 01:11:08,840
Speaker 1: Here's father John Whiteford talking about it, but he's talking

1235
01:11:08,920 --> 01:11:15,399
about critiquingdavidanly Hard. I think, all right, well, this is

1236
01:11:15,439 --> 01:11:18,600
about universalism, This isn't what i'm This will probably be

1237
01:11:18,640 --> 01:11:21,359
a good refutation of universalism, this isn't exactly what I'm

1238
01:11:21,359 --> 01:11:21,680
looking for.

1239
01:11:29,279 --> 01:11:30,279
Speaker 2: I think the point is that.

1240
01:11:33,039 --> 01:11:38,039
Speaker 1: Time suggests beginning an end, and since we're talking about

1241
01:11:38,079 --> 01:11:42,920
something that is time less, it's not functioning in a

1242
01:11:43,520 --> 01:11:46,880
beginning end sense. It's an ever existing present, but it's

1243
01:11:47,000 --> 01:11:51,840
not eternal or it's not uncreated. So it's a time

1244
01:11:52,039 --> 01:11:56,279
less created realm where the angels exist. And that's why

1245
01:11:56,880 --> 01:11:59,640
when the trust's father's talk about the angels falling, it

1246
01:11:59,800 --> 01:12:04,920
was outside of time and hence it was instantaneous. But

1247
01:12:05,600 --> 01:12:17,000
this isn't really dealing with that. Alulah, five dollars add

1248
01:12:17,079 --> 01:12:19,520
me to your prayers. God knows I love you brother

1249
01:12:19,600 --> 01:12:24,399
as always. Thank you appreciate that. Lula, will we'll do that, silly,

1250
01:12:24,439 --> 01:12:26,680
give us five dollars. Do you have any thoughts on

1251
01:12:26,800 --> 01:12:31,239
Dan McClellan. I think we did him on We covered

1252
01:12:31,319 --> 01:12:33,119
him on that stream that Cootel and I did about

1253
01:12:33,159 --> 01:12:34,359
deconstructing Christianity.

1254
01:12:35,520 --> 01:12:36,359
Speaker 2: So you can go watch that.

1255
01:12:37,199 --> 01:12:39,319
Speaker 1: He will not debate people. But if you have rebuttals,

1256
01:12:39,960 --> 01:12:42,920
what are they? Go watch our video together about We

1257
01:12:43,039 --> 01:12:46,119
did two. We did one on my channel deconstructing Christianity

1258
01:12:46,119 --> 01:12:48,039
and then one on his channel deconstructing Christianity.

1259
01:12:49,399 --> 01:12:50,119
Speaker 2: I think we deal with.

1260
01:12:50,640 --> 01:12:54,640
Speaker 1: McClellan in his video on his channel. Gabriel twenty five dollars.

1261
01:12:54,680 --> 01:12:56,520
What happens to people who never hear of Jesus?

1262
01:12:56,600 --> 01:12:57,279
Speaker 2: Do they go to Hell?

1263
01:12:58,039 --> 01:13:00,720
Speaker 1: We don't make that judgment. We're not told the destiny

1264
01:13:00,760 --> 01:13:02,960
of people. We're just told to tell people to come

1265
01:13:03,000 --> 01:13:06,199
into the arc. It seems the moral to witness to

1266
01:13:06,279 --> 01:13:07,920
them and give them a chance to reject it. If

1267
01:13:07,920 --> 01:13:09,760
they would immediately go to heaven, well, we don't say

1268
01:13:09,800 --> 01:13:10,760
they immediately go to heaven.

1269
01:13:12,199 --> 01:13:14,760
Speaker 2: God doesn't tell us, and how he judges of people,

1270
01:13:14,920 --> 01:13:17,800
we don't know. There's inklings of how he does that

1271
01:13:17,880 --> 01:13:22,199
in Romans two in regard to natural law. But our

1272
01:13:22,319 --> 01:13:25,079
job is to tell them to join the church. Well

1273
01:13:25,119 --> 01:13:27,560
at annual five dollars I didn't even notice that this

1274
01:13:27,760 --> 01:13:29,239
was a late stream. Thanks.

1275
01:13:29,760 --> 01:13:34,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like midnight here. Appreciate that Albanian do ninety

1276
01:13:34,600 --> 01:13:36,119
eight two dollars.

1277
01:13:36,199 --> 01:13:40,239
Speaker 2: Contaxation in society be viewed as a divine judgment and

1278
01:13:40,319 --> 01:13:43,000
consequence because the sins of self interest and greed. From

1279
01:13:43,000 --> 01:13:48,840
an Orthodox perspective, I think all things like that can

1280
01:13:48,920 --> 01:13:52,840
be chastisements. Yeah, like any anything that comes our way, right,

1281
01:13:52,920 --> 01:13:58,199
if a plague comes, right, that's a chastisement. And you know,

1282
01:13:58,520 --> 01:13:59,279
in the.

1283
01:13:59,359 --> 01:14:02,239
Speaker 1: Covenants to be relations in Deuteronomy and in the Covenant

1284
01:14:02,279 --> 01:14:05,600
stipulations to the churches and Revelation two and three, the

1285
01:14:05,800 --> 01:14:10,600
blessings and the cursings that come to chastisements, all of

1286
01:14:10,680 --> 01:14:12,239
them are for are good.

1287
01:14:12,680 --> 01:14:17,640
Speaker 2: So yeah, I would I would say so. In fact,

1288
01:14:17,680 --> 01:14:21,680
I think there's a text in Ezekiel. Yeah, there's a

1289
01:14:21,760 --> 01:14:23,039
text in Ezekiel.

1290
01:14:22,640 --> 01:14:26,720
Speaker 1: That says that God gave them over to bad laws

1291
01:14:27,880 --> 01:14:32,199
because they were disobedient. And I remember Scott Hahn back

1292
01:14:32,239 --> 01:14:33,560
in the day when I was cat. I remember he

1293
01:14:33,680 --> 01:14:36,720
was a big letdown to me because he actually took

1294
01:14:36,800 --> 01:14:39,720
a like a modernist.

1295
01:14:43,840 --> 01:14:47,399
Speaker 2: Documentary hypothesis view about that. I kid you not.

1296
01:14:47,520 --> 01:14:50,000
Speaker 1: You could probably go look it up where he's trying

1297
01:14:50,000 --> 01:14:51,680
to grapple with this text, but I wish I don't

1298
01:14:51,680 --> 01:14:52,920
even think it's that weird of a text.

1299
01:14:52,960 --> 01:14:57,359
Speaker 24: He's like, I could not extense of distract, And he's like,

1300
01:14:57,800 --> 01:15:00,000
so I came to the conclusion that it's the Old

1301
01:15:00,159 --> 01:15:03,119
Testament itself and its laws that God is here saying

1302
01:15:03,239 --> 01:15:04,000
are bad laws.

1303
01:15:04,800 --> 01:15:09,000
Speaker 2: What God gave bad laws, which are the Torah? That

1304
01:15:09,159 --> 01:15:10,520
makes absolutely no sense.

1305
01:15:11,960 --> 01:15:14,800
Speaker 1: What he's saying is that since you wouldn't obey my laws,

1306
01:15:14,920 --> 01:15:17,319
I gave you up to bad human laws.

1307
01:15:19,479 --> 01:15:20,119
Speaker 2: Not even to me.

1308
01:15:20,199 --> 01:15:22,159
Speaker 1: It's not even a mysterious text. I don't know where

1309
01:15:22,720 --> 01:15:24,279
or why Scott Hank came up with that.

1310
01:15:25,600 --> 01:15:27,640
Speaker 2: Big way five dollars, Jay. I got to ask you,

1311
01:15:28,079 --> 01:15:30,359
why do you do some of the debate streams. I

1312
01:15:30,439 --> 01:15:31,880
hear a lot of Goober's showing up.

1313
01:15:31,960 --> 01:15:35,000
Speaker 1: Does it get tiring? It does get tiring, and I

1314
01:15:35,159 --> 01:15:37,199
enjoy it at the same time. So it's a love

1315
01:15:37,239 --> 01:15:46,079
hate relationship with debating. It seems to help a lot

1316
01:15:46,119 --> 01:15:49,039
of people. I get tons and tons of people saying

1317
01:15:49,079 --> 01:15:50,720
they love this. I mean the debate streams.

1318
01:15:51,319 --> 01:15:56,399
Speaker 2: If you guys watched my movie and book streams and

1319
01:15:56,600 --> 01:15:58,119
they got thirty thousand views.

1320
01:15:58,199 --> 01:16:01,159
Speaker 1: I would do that all the time, but ten thousand

1321
01:16:01,199 --> 01:16:04,720
people watch those and thirty forty fifty thousand people watch these.

1322
01:16:05,039 --> 01:16:07,520
So that's part of the reason why I do it,

1323
01:16:07,640 --> 01:16:08,439
that nobody.

1324
01:16:08,199 --> 01:16:10,319
Speaker 2: Watches the book streams and the movie streams.

1325
01:16:11,479 --> 01:16:14,880
Speaker 1: I still do them because I enjoy them. But Bitcoin

1326
01:16:15,000 --> 01:16:17,119
Island three dollars. I love these late night streams.

1327
01:16:17,239 --> 01:16:17,600
Speaker 2: Keep it up.

1328
01:16:17,640 --> 01:16:17,800
Speaker 10: Jay.

1329
01:16:17,800 --> 01:16:20,600
Speaker 2: Hey, if you want to support my work and you do,

1330
01:16:20,800 --> 01:16:24,560
happen to be a bitcoin tattoo Fantasy Island bro.

1331
01:16:25,680 --> 01:16:28,479
Speaker 1: This is my wallet rye here. People always ask what's

1332
01:16:28,520 --> 01:16:31,640
like QR code? That's to support me buy bitcoin? If

1333
01:16:31,680 --> 01:16:34,319
you would like to get started with bitcoin, there is

1334
01:16:34,399 --> 01:16:36,960
a link in my show description to swan Bitcoin. They're

1335
01:16:37,000 --> 01:16:39,079
a purchasing bitcoin only company.

1336
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Speaker 2: That's all it is.

1337
01:16:40,199 --> 01:16:43,119
Speaker 1: You buy it and then you transfer it to your wallet.

1338
01:16:43,840 --> 01:16:49,520
Very simple, very smooth process. Also, if you want to

1339
01:16:50,159 --> 01:16:54,640
support my work and your own health in the sense

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of increasing toxic masculinity, then head on over to chalk

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up your toxic masculinity promo code Jay four four L

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I F E. I recommend that performance stack, particularly the

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tonk Ketally. Now, also we have ten percent ladies. There's

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only ten percent of this audience as ladies. You can

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go get that the female vitality Sack.

1350
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Speaker 26: And if you don't want to recurrence the description, you

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01:17:30,960 --> 01:17:33,119
can use the promo coach JAY four zero to get

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01:17:33,199 --> 01:17:37,439
forty percent off chalk dot com mer curious one dollar.

1353
01:17:38,640 --> 01:17:40,880
If I'm under a jurisdiction that promotes a humunism or

1354
01:17:40,920 --> 01:17:44,000
some other scandal, is there precedent for how to combat

1355
01:17:44,159 --> 01:17:47,439
heresy within a community or an Orthodox situation supposed to

1356
01:17:47,479 --> 01:17:49,800
admit with docility as.

1357
01:17:49,720 --> 01:17:50,640
Speaker 2: Our Roman Catholics.

1358
01:17:51,399 --> 01:17:55,119
Speaker 1: I mean, really, it just depends on how far we're talking.

1359
01:17:55,319 --> 01:17:56,720
I mean, are you talking about the bishop, are you

1360
01:17:56,800 --> 01:18:00,239
talking about a priest who says something liberal? Or I mean,

1361
01:18:00,279 --> 01:18:02,279
I guess ideally it probably would just be best to

1362
01:18:02,319 --> 01:18:05,880
find a better jurisdiction if you can. But there's not

1363
01:18:06,199 --> 01:18:12,600
an easy answer to these kinds of questions. We still

1364
01:18:12,680 --> 01:18:13,880
got twenty people over here.

1365
01:18:14,560 --> 01:18:25,239
Speaker 2: Let's find vesper. We got Eva Green over here? What's up?

1366
01:18:26,039 --> 01:18:33,520
Vesper Lend? Hello?

1367
01:18:35,319 --> 01:18:41,159
Speaker 4: Seconds, see if I can hear you?

1368
01:18:41,880 --> 01:18:42,159
Speaker 2: Hello?

1369
01:18:42,920 --> 01:18:45,880
Speaker 27: All right, it's working now, all right, So I disagree

1370
01:18:45,920 --> 01:18:48,960
with the whole host of stuff you said, but let's

1371
01:18:49,000 --> 01:18:50,000
go with universalism.

1372
01:18:50,039 --> 01:18:51,039
Speaker 4: What's your issue with then?

1373
01:18:52,439 --> 01:18:55,800
Speaker 1: Well, the New Testament pretty clearly doesn't teach universalism. The

1374
01:18:55,920 --> 01:18:58,119
Church has condemned it at least three times and three

1375
01:18:58,159 --> 01:18:59,279
ecumenical councils.

1376
01:18:59,479 --> 01:19:00,640
Speaker 2: So that's enough for me.

1377
01:19:01,479 --> 01:19:02,279
Speaker 4: Are you sure about that?

1378
01:19:02,840 --> 01:19:03,039
Speaker 2: Yeah?

1379
01:19:04,520 --> 01:19:07,079
Speaker 27: Because doesn't the Eastern Orthodoxy believe in this sort of

1380
01:19:07,119 --> 01:19:11,600
purgatory No, with like the aerial toll houses, Well.

1381
01:19:11,560 --> 01:19:14,319
Speaker 1: That's not purgatory. Purgatory has created fire, that God has

1382
01:19:14,399 --> 01:19:15,119
no creative fire.

1383
01:19:16,119 --> 01:19:19,680
Speaker 4: Okay, But you believe in like a purification of the souls, But.

1384
01:19:19,800 --> 01:19:22,520
Speaker 2: That's not purgatory because purgatory is bound up with the

1385
01:19:22,600 --> 01:19:26,199
Roman Catholic doctrine of temporald that's for sins and created

1386
01:19:26,319 --> 01:19:27,159
fire from God.

1387
01:19:28,199 --> 01:19:30,880
Speaker 4: Okay. And what happens to the souls in hell at

1388
01:19:30,920 --> 01:19:32,479
the end at the end times.

1389
01:19:34,239 --> 01:19:36,359
Speaker 1: They are joined back to their body and they are

1390
01:19:36,600 --> 01:19:40,520
experiencing the wrath of God and not the love of God.

1391
01:19:41,640 --> 01:19:43,079
Speaker 4: They experience unity with God.

1392
01:19:43,199 --> 01:19:46,560
Speaker 2: Right, No, the wrath of God, because God's love to

1393
01:19:46,880 --> 01:19:50,880
them is wrath, the.

1394
01:19:50,960 --> 01:19:54,800
Speaker 4: Full presence of God. You take that to mean something nefarious.

1395
01:19:56,119 --> 01:19:59,600
Speaker 2: Well, the lake of fire for us as Orthodox is

1396
01:19:59,640 --> 01:20:03,079
the same thing as the river of life. What distinguishes

1397
01:20:03,119 --> 01:20:05,319
these two experiences is are you laughing?

1398
01:20:09,239 --> 01:20:14,000
Speaker 4: Let's see, do you see the experience eternal torment?

1399
01:20:15,000 --> 01:20:15,279
Speaker 2: All right?

1400
01:20:15,319 --> 01:20:17,800
Speaker 1: So the Orthodox view is that the river of life

1401
01:20:18,000 --> 01:20:22,079
is the lake of fire. But your recapitulation of the

1402
01:20:22,159 --> 01:20:26,079
virtues or lack thereof, is what determines your individual experience

1403
01:20:26,119 --> 01:20:26,800
of the escaton.

1404
01:20:29,479 --> 01:20:33,039
Speaker 4: So there's no reconciliation for people.

1405
01:20:34,159 --> 01:20:36,680
Speaker 2: Not if they, to the end of their life persist

1406
01:20:36,960 --> 01:20:39,159
in what Jesus calls the unforgivable sin.

1407
01:20:39,279 --> 01:20:45,000
Speaker 27: Correct, But they could theoretically be saved from hell in

1408
01:20:45,159 --> 01:20:49,079
this life, I mean, after being sent to hell.

1409
01:20:49,960 --> 01:20:53,920
Speaker 1: No, there's no precedence for that. There's no reason to

1410
01:20:54,000 --> 01:20:55,760
believe that. What's the basis to believe that?

1411
01:20:58,640 --> 01:21:00,560
Speaker 4: I don't know. It just it seems weird that their

1412
01:21:00,600 --> 01:21:03,279
souls are eternally tortured.

1413
01:21:03,680 --> 01:21:06,000
Speaker 1: I said, they're joined to their body and resurrected and

1414
01:21:06,079 --> 01:21:10,520
they experience what they chose, So they're not eternally tormented.

1415
01:21:10,600 --> 01:21:11,359
Speaker 2: As if God is.

1416
01:21:11,479 --> 01:21:14,920
Speaker 4: Okay, Okay, so they're basically reincarnated.

1417
01:21:16,279 --> 01:21:20,720
Speaker 2: No, the resurrection is not is not reincarnation. No, it's not.

1418
01:21:20,760 --> 01:21:33,520
We're gonna move on, Jake, what's up? What's up? Jake?

1419
01:21:33,640 --> 01:21:43,359
And I'm mute, Jake, unmute, unmute, dude.

1420
01:21:43,560 --> 01:21:47,039
Speaker 28: All right, Oh sorry, Hey, I have a couple of

1421
01:21:47,119 --> 01:21:50,520
questions about the GEOC speaking of kind of schismatics. What

1422
01:21:52,560 --> 01:21:55,920
you know, the genuine Orthodox Church quote unquote okay, so

1423
01:21:57,720 --> 01:22:01,359
is anything of them worth debating or using their content?

1424
01:22:02,640 --> 01:22:05,079
Speaker 29: So I'm just asked.

1425
01:22:04,840 --> 01:22:07,479
Speaker 28: Because some of their stuff might be confusing some of

1426
01:22:07,520 --> 01:22:11,319
the new converts or people who are just kind of inquires,

1427
01:22:12,199 --> 01:22:13,680
you know. Some of the things they say is kind

1428
01:22:13,720 --> 01:22:16,640
of like it seems pretty kind of like donatists.

1429
01:22:18,039 --> 01:22:19,199
Speaker 19: Yeah, I don't know if you're kind of.

1430
01:22:19,359 --> 01:22:22,119
Speaker 28: Tracking any of the stuff that they that they talk about, this.

1431
01:22:22,239 --> 01:22:27,439
Speaker 2: Is like five people, ten people, It's like nothing like

1432
01:22:27,439 --> 01:22:31,479
it's like it's smaller than set of a countism So no, people.

1433
01:22:31,279 --> 01:22:33,119
Speaker 1: Should just not waste their time with any of that.

1434
01:22:33,960 --> 01:22:40,880
And every schismatic group will, you know, have some legitimate gripe,

1435
01:22:41,319 --> 01:22:44,520
but that doesn't justify the actions or the reactions of

1436
01:22:44,560 --> 01:22:45,039
those groups.

1437
01:22:45,159 --> 01:22:46,000
Speaker 2: Kevin, what's up? Man?

1438
01:22:46,359 --> 01:22:49,399
Speaker 1: Looking for people who disagree. So if you're Orthodox and

1439
01:22:49,520 --> 01:22:52,760
you're asking me catechumen questions, I'm not doing that tonight.

1440
01:22:52,880 --> 01:22:56,760
So please if you disagree with me, if you want

1441
01:22:56,840 --> 01:23:02,640
to argue Catholicism, Atheism, protestantsm Calvinism, Islam, libertarianism, Gnocissism.

1442
01:23:02,920 --> 01:23:06,079
Speaker 2: It's not Orthodox ataq and I what's up? Kevin on you?

1443
01:23:13,159 --> 01:23:18,920
Kevin on? Mute? Ken is Kevin from the office. What's up?

1444
01:23:19,000 --> 01:23:19,439
Kevin on you?

1445
01:23:20,560 --> 01:23:20,720
Speaker 10: Hey?

1446
01:23:20,800 --> 01:23:20,960
Speaker 4: Jay?

1447
01:23:21,039 --> 01:23:23,119
Speaker 10: Sorry about that's up?

1448
01:23:24,600 --> 01:23:24,720
Speaker 30: Uh.

1449
01:23:24,880 --> 01:23:29,000
Speaker 31: Yeah, So I'm a pretty new listener. I've been watching

1450
01:23:29,079 --> 01:23:32,039
recently all of your debates and all that. So I'm

1451
01:23:32,079 --> 01:23:33,840
wondering if you wanted to talk a little bit about

1452
01:23:34,039 --> 01:23:34,920
Jeovah's witnesses.

1453
01:23:35,720 --> 01:23:40,399
Speaker 4: Okay, so really really quick summary. Uh.

1454
01:23:41,000 --> 01:23:44,600
Speaker 31: I was raised in the Jehovah's witness household, and uh

1455
01:23:45,079 --> 01:23:48,600
for in my late teens, I became an anti uh

1456
01:23:49,239 --> 01:23:50,479
anti theist, like an.

1457
01:23:50,399 --> 01:23:52,279
Speaker 10: Atheist anti seis kind of thing.

1458
01:23:53,680 --> 01:23:58,640
Speaker 31: I'm recently confining my way back to spirituality overall, and

1459
01:23:58,760 --> 01:24:00,920
I'm starting to lean forward Orthodogray.

1460
01:24:01,600 --> 01:24:03,479
Speaker 9: But my question to you is, and hopefully you.

1461
01:24:03,479 --> 01:24:06,399
Speaker 31: Can help me out here, is my family is super

1462
01:24:06,520 --> 01:24:10,560
intrussed in this belief to this date, So I'm wondering,

1463
01:24:10,640 --> 01:24:14,640
what maybe if you have some arguments to help maybe

1464
01:24:14,760 --> 01:24:15,680
take himself out of that.

1465
01:24:16,760 --> 01:24:19,079
Speaker 1: Yeah, I would say a couple places to start. One

1466
01:24:19,159 --> 01:24:23,880
would be right here. This video is Jesus God is

1467
01:24:23,920 --> 01:24:26,680
God at Trinity. This is a video I made almost

1468
01:24:26,720 --> 01:24:29,199
six years ago. It'said about fifty thousand views on it.

1469
01:24:30,119 --> 01:24:33,159
I would start with that video because I go through many, many,

1470
01:24:33,239 --> 01:24:38,479
many Old Testament passages that prove that Christ is the

1471
01:24:38,760 --> 01:24:41,920
second person of the Godhead, and he's called yeahweh, He's

1472
01:24:42,000 --> 01:24:44,279
called God, not just in the New Testament, but all

1473
01:24:44,359 --> 01:24:47,680
throughout the Old Testament. Next, I would say watch the

1474
01:24:47,920 --> 01:24:51,159
recent video that I did Trinity in the Old Testament,

1475
01:24:51,199 --> 01:24:55,600
which is a step beyond this initial video, where I

1476
01:24:55,720 --> 01:24:59,039
actually go through all of the references to the Trinity

1477
01:25:00,079 --> 01:25:04,279
in the Torah, so very precise, very specific that we're

1478
01:25:05,079 --> 01:25:09,039
literally going to walk through. This ends up being ultimately

1479
01:25:09,079 --> 01:25:12,159
about three hours, and I think I missed one passage

1480
01:25:12,760 --> 01:25:16,119
in either numbers. I think in numbers, so I got

1481
01:25:16,199 --> 01:25:18,359
almost all of them. I missed one in numbers. But

1482
01:25:19,279 --> 01:25:25,680
it's another three hours of textual evidence and proofs that

1483
01:25:26,159 --> 01:25:28,760
the Old Testament literally teaches the train Now If the

1484
01:25:28,800 --> 01:25:32,520
Old Testament uses the Trinity, that's the end of Joe's Witnesses.

1485
01:25:32,680 --> 01:25:34,880
We don't even need or have to go to the

1486
01:25:34,960 --> 01:25:37,279
New Testament passages, which we can because there's plenty of

1487
01:25:37,319 --> 01:25:39,479
those in the New Testament as well. You could just

1488
01:25:39,600 --> 01:25:42,760
google New Testament passages that show the duty of Christ.

1489
01:25:43,159 --> 01:25:45,800
But I really think the Old Testament passages are the

1490
01:25:45,920 --> 01:25:51,000
most forceful because it really destroys Islam, Judaism, and jose

1491
01:25:51,039 --> 01:25:54,000
Witnesses all at the same time. So check out those videos.

1492
01:25:54,239 --> 01:25:58,079
Appreciate that, Kevin, and glad to see you moving.

1493
01:25:57,960 --> 01:26:00,520
Speaker 2: In the right direction. Bro, Jeff, what's up man?

1494
01:26:05,239 --> 01:26:07,840
Speaker 4: Hello? Hey, Hey, what's up man?

1495
01:26:08,880 --> 01:26:13,760
Speaker 32: So I am a new listener recently, you know, pretty

1496
01:26:13,800 --> 01:26:17,359
much accepted Jesus into my heart and this has really helped.

1497
01:26:17,520 --> 01:26:19,840
But I just wanted to kind of debate with you

1498
01:26:19,920 --> 01:26:22,399
about the way maybe I've thought about things in the past,

1499
01:26:23,079 --> 01:26:26,520
and you know, just to kind of see, like, wheread

1500
01:26:26,560 --> 01:26:29,239
go from it, even though I'm already kind of, you know,

1501
01:26:29,319 --> 01:26:30,159
on your side on it.

1502
01:26:30,359 --> 01:26:33,880
Speaker 4: Does that make sense on what topic? Well?

1503
01:26:33,960 --> 01:26:35,279
Speaker 19: So just kind of the concept of.

1504
01:26:38,239 --> 01:26:38,920
Speaker 4: Good and evil.

1505
01:26:39,399 --> 01:26:42,039
Speaker 32: You know, I didn't really consider the fact that there

1506
01:26:42,239 --> 01:26:44,760
was a good or evil. It just kind of was

1507
01:26:45,359 --> 01:26:47,359
you know, I didn't believe that I even had free will.

1508
01:26:47,840 --> 01:26:52,199
I'm just a robot of meat, you know, going through,

1509
01:26:52,439 --> 01:26:57,079
going through life and survival is the mechanism in which

1510
01:26:57,479 --> 01:27:00,319
I do everything, you know, run away from pain and

1511
01:27:00,479 --> 01:27:01,479
run towards pleasure.

1512
01:27:02,039 --> 01:27:03,560
Speaker 4: That makes sense.

1513
01:27:05,800 --> 01:27:07,640
Speaker 32: In the sense, but I'm not, you know, like a

1514
01:27:08,199 --> 01:27:12,880
hetonistic person like I. At the same time, I see,

1515
01:27:13,199 --> 01:27:18,600
you know, doing things like drinking, as dipping into a

1516
01:27:18,760 --> 01:27:21,479
river that the more I dip my foot in, the

1517
01:27:21,600 --> 01:27:24,000
more it submerges me and takes me down. It's past

1518
01:27:24,199 --> 01:27:25,720
and then I'm unable to get out of that river.

1519
01:27:26,319 --> 01:27:28,279
So that's the way I would consider doing things that

1520
01:27:28,640 --> 01:27:29,279
I didn't think.

1521
01:27:29,159 --> 01:27:29,680
Speaker 4: It was bad.

1522
01:27:29,920 --> 01:27:32,880
Speaker 32: It's not like that river is an evil river. It's

1523
01:27:33,000 --> 01:27:37,159
just that river is drinking porn, you know, doing crazy shit.

1524
01:27:37,399 --> 01:27:40,319
And sometimes I, you know, get in a river, probably

1525
01:27:40,399 --> 01:27:42,960
more than I should, but I never got lost in that.

1526
01:27:43,800 --> 01:27:44,560
Speaker 4: Does that make sense?

1527
01:27:45,600 --> 01:27:48,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, you say, basically you're saying, like vices didn't run

1528
01:27:48,600 --> 01:27:51,039
your life exactly.

1529
01:27:51,199 --> 01:27:54,640
Speaker 32: So I try to do try to do positive things,

1530
01:27:55,039 --> 01:27:56,840
and you know, for the most part, I was pretty

1531
01:27:56,920 --> 01:27:59,720
happy doing that. So I kind of was like, you know,

1532
01:27:59,760 --> 01:28:03,399
and I grew up evangelical type of Christian uh, And

1533
01:28:03,479 --> 01:28:05,880
I just didn't really see a reason to to go

1534
01:28:06,039 --> 01:28:08,840
to God. You know, I'm not a depressed guy, didn't

1535
01:28:08,880 --> 01:28:09,479
fear death.

1536
01:28:10,439 --> 01:28:10,560
Speaker 9: Uh.

1537
01:28:10,800 --> 01:28:14,279
Speaker 32: And even coming back to Christianity, it wasn't the the

1538
01:28:14,479 --> 01:28:20,039
hell heart that kept me, you know, kept me from

1539
01:28:20,119 --> 01:28:20,520
coming in.

1540
01:28:20,920 --> 01:28:22,399
Speaker 19: It's not like I was like, oh shit, hell.

1541
01:28:22,840 --> 01:28:24,439
Speaker 10: It was just like a logical conclusion.

1542
01:28:24,520 --> 01:28:26,159
Speaker 32: It was very like, you know what, I'm picking the side.

1543
01:28:26,159 --> 01:28:28,119
I'm picking this side. How do you talk to somebody

1544
01:28:28,359 --> 01:28:31,119
like me about Christianity? Because I feel like even bringing

1545
01:28:31,119 --> 01:28:35,279
it up back to my friends, like dude, Jeff gone crazy, you.

1546
01:28:35,319 --> 01:28:35,760
Speaker 7: Know what I mean?

1547
01:28:37,279 --> 01:28:37,479
Speaker 2: Yes?

1548
01:28:37,520 --> 01:28:38,000
Speaker 4: So what so?

1549
01:28:38,159 --> 01:28:39,079
Speaker 2: What is the question?

1550
01:28:40,039 --> 01:28:43,079
Speaker 4: So it's just like, how how do I explain good

1551
01:28:43,119 --> 01:28:43,479
and evil?

1552
01:28:44,119 --> 01:28:44,279
Speaker 9: You know?

1553
01:28:44,399 --> 01:28:45,479
Speaker 19: How do you even like.

1554
01:28:47,439 --> 01:28:49,199
Speaker 32: Because like in my sense that there is no good

1555
01:28:49,239 --> 01:28:51,520
in evil in my older sense, you know, how would

1556
01:28:51,560 --> 01:28:53,399
you say that there is a good and there isn't

1557
01:28:53,479 --> 01:28:54,159
an evil?

1558
01:28:54,760 --> 01:28:56,880
Speaker 2: I guess how do you pro I mean, I would

1559
01:28:56,880 --> 01:28:59,279
say those are kind of like good as a you know,

1560
01:28:59,479 --> 01:29:02,680
kind of a train incidental. It's like a necessary category

1561
01:29:02,880 --> 01:29:06,960
that like has there has to be some good or

1562
01:29:07,039 --> 01:29:09,960
else you couldn't make value judgments. You couldn't say that

1563
01:29:10,079 --> 01:29:12,800
this thing is not good or this is better or worse.

1564
01:29:13,399 --> 01:29:15,399
Speaker 1: So there's got to be some account of the good

1565
01:29:15,880 --> 01:29:18,439
rather than just saying there is the good. And I

1566
01:29:18,520 --> 01:29:20,680
think if you start to, you know, ask kind of

1567
01:29:20,680 --> 01:29:22,960
basic philosophical questions, Okay, well, what does it mean to

1568
01:29:23,000 --> 01:29:23,800
say something is good?

1569
01:29:23,880 --> 01:29:25,560
Speaker 2: What is the good? How do I know the good?

1570
01:29:26,680 --> 01:29:27,479
Where is the good?

1571
01:29:27,640 --> 01:29:27,760
Speaker 4: Right?

1572
01:29:27,840 --> 01:29:31,880
Speaker 1: Those kinds of questions lead you into the domain of well,

1573
01:29:31,920 --> 01:29:32,680
then what isn't good?

1574
01:29:32,840 --> 01:29:33,359
Speaker 2: Is there evil?

1575
01:29:34,079 --> 01:29:36,520
Speaker 1: And that leads to the questions like, well, is there

1576
01:29:36,840 --> 01:29:40,239
an ultimate good, the highest good God? And then is

1577
01:29:40,279 --> 01:29:44,079
there things that are against God? Angels, demons, et cetera.

1578
01:29:44,399 --> 01:29:48,239
So if you're asking for the kinds of questions that

1579
01:29:48,359 --> 01:29:51,960
I would ask to people who don't believe, those are

1580
01:29:52,039 --> 01:29:54,600
the sort of philosophical questions I would ask that lead

1581
01:29:54,720 --> 01:29:59,079
to theology. So a lot of philosophical questions we don't

1582
01:29:59,119 --> 01:30:01,000
think of them as the logical, but they actually kind

1583
01:30:01,039 --> 01:30:04,680
of end up in the domain of theology, uh.

1584
01:30:07,079 --> 01:30:21,319
Speaker 2: Daniel. So I would start with those kinds of questions. Maybe, yeah, I.

1585
01:30:21,319 --> 01:30:23,800
Speaker 1: Don't claim it's a mystery and then claim the universalism

1586
01:30:23,920 --> 01:30:27,399
is false because there's aspects that I claim are mysterious

1587
01:30:27,479 --> 01:30:28,239
and others.

1588
01:30:28,039 --> 01:30:28,359
Speaker 2: That are not.

1589
01:30:28,720 --> 01:30:30,560
Speaker 4: So it's just like.

1590
01:30:32,279 --> 01:30:41,039
Speaker 1: Not even basics. Uh, Daniel can't connect Nathan, So we're

1591
01:30:41,039 --> 01:30:42,199
looking for people who disagree.

1592
01:30:42,760 --> 01:30:57,159
Speaker 2: Tonight, i'man.

1593
01:31:00,119 --> 01:31:01,439
Speaker 4: I was just wondering.

1594
01:31:02,159 --> 01:31:06,840
Speaker 25: So I have a friend at work that he is

1595
01:31:07,359 --> 01:31:11,199
into the faith healing and it's based in gnoscissism, and

1596
01:31:11,319 --> 01:31:14,640
I was wondering what the best argument against that is.

1597
01:31:23,319 --> 01:31:26,479
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, it's hard to argue with people

1598
01:31:26,600 --> 01:31:30,039
like that because most of the time they're really based

1599
01:31:30,079 --> 01:31:32,520
on emotion, So they're really only going to believe or

1600
01:31:32,600 --> 01:31:35,960
accept on the basis of the emotional highs and lows

1601
01:31:36,039 --> 01:31:36,479
that they get.

1602
01:31:37,000 --> 01:31:38,079
Speaker 2: So I don't even know.

1603
01:31:38,319 --> 01:31:40,560
Speaker 1: You might not even be able to have like an

1604
01:31:40,720 --> 01:31:43,439
argued type of position with that kind of person. It

1605
01:31:43,520 --> 01:31:45,199
might be better to just like invite him to an

1606
01:31:45,439 --> 01:31:47,640
Orthodox church or something like that rather than trying to

1607
01:31:47,720 --> 01:31:48,319
debate with him.

1608
01:31:48,800 --> 01:31:50,520
Speaker 2: If I was going to debate with somebody like that.

1609
01:31:50,600 --> 01:31:52,880
Speaker 1: I would just try to get him to start questioning

1610
01:31:53,680 --> 01:31:57,960
whether he's really seeing miracles, whether he's really seeing prophecies,

1611
01:31:58,079 --> 01:32:00,760
and all kinds of whatever he believes is going on

1612
01:32:00,920 --> 01:32:03,680
at his Pentecostal group.

1613
01:32:04,760 --> 01:32:06,800
Speaker 2: Emmanuel Herrera really for people who disagree.

1614
01:32:16,359 --> 01:32:20,520
Speaker 9: Hey, hello something Okay, So I just kind of wanted

1615
01:32:20,520 --> 01:32:23,640
to talk about like the LPT kind of.

1616
01:32:24,319 --> 01:32:27,159
Speaker 12: So basically the argument that was good to me was

1617
01:32:27,920 --> 01:32:29,600
if the Father didn't quote the essence.

1618
01:32:29,680 --> 01:32:31,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, we've covered this many times, we did the whole

1619
01:32:31,680 --> 01:32:32,159
talks on it.

1620
01:32:33,000 --> 01:32:36,000
Speaker 12: No, but like particularly for the essence at like particular

1621
01:32:36,119 --> 01:32:39,159
and universals like not just like the standard LPT argument.

1622
01:32:41,439 --> 01:32:43,960
Speaker 2: So basically, how would the logical problem of trinity relate

1623
01:32:44,039 --> 01:32:45,880
to universals? I don't understand.

1624
01:32:46,640 --> 01:32:48,640
Speaker 12: It isn't more of the LPT, more just a God

1625
01:32:48,760 --> 01:32:51,119
being three like the Trinity being three gods.

1626
01:32:54,920 --> 01:32:57,159
Speaker 2: Well, strictly speaking, it's not three gods.

1627
01:32:57,199 --> 01:33:00,520
Speaker 1: I mean it's one God, the Father, and then the

1628
01:33:00,640 --> 01:33:04,119
Son and the Spirit participate in his divine essence. So

1629
01:33:04,960 --> 01:33:07,720
I mean, are you just like, what's the problem, Like, Well,

1630
01:33:07,720 --> 01:33:11,279
I've covered the LPT explicitly extensively multiple times.

1631
01:33:11,640 --> 01:33:13,279
Speaker 9: Yeah, and I've watched I'll watch your videos on it.

1632
01:33:13,399 --> 01:33:16,399
Speaker 12: Okay, this is like a distinct argument because it was like,

1633
01:33:16,880 --> 01:33:19,439
if I believe the fathers identical to the Essence, but

1634
01:33:19,520 --> 01:33:22,119
then I believe the divine essence is a universal does

1635
01:33:22,199 --> 01:33:23,720
I mean the Father's universal.

1636
01:33:23,920 --> 01:33:26,199
Speaker 1: Most of the church fathers don't believe the divine Essence

1637
01:33:26,319 --> 01:33:29,159
is a universal. Some do, some don't, so that might

1638
01:33:29,239 --> 01:33:35,520
be a problematic terminological use. I would inquate the divine

1639
01:33:35,560 --> 01:33:38,479
essence with a universal. It's like a universal in the

1640
01:33:38,520 --> 01:33:41,960
way that something can be one and many, just like

1641
01:33:42,039 --> 01:33:44,560
particular as the universals can be both, and so in

1642
01:33:44,640 --> 01:33:47,840
the trinity it can be both in But I don't

1643
01:33:47,920 --> 01:33:51,359
know that the Divine Essence is a universal per se.

1644
01:33:51,439 --> 01:33:53,880
I think maybe Nissa thinks that if I go going

1645
01:33:53,920 --> 01:33:56,680
for memory, but most church fathers don't think that.

1646
01:33:57,720 --> 01:34:01,479
Speaker 12: So then so then if I say that it's three particulars,

1647
01:34:01,760 --> 01:34:03,920
he said, well, then that means if you count God

1648
01:34:04,039 --> 01:34:06,720
by particulars, there's a sense some which you have three gods.

1649
01:34:07,560 --> 01:34:09,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, but it's just a different use of the word

1650
01:34:09,319 --> 01:34:12,760
God than what's being picked out by the essence. So

1651
01:34:13,439 --> 01:34:16,439
I mean nice, and Creed says, you know, God from God,

1652
01:34:16,600 --> 01:34:19,800
light from light. So there, the word God is just

1653
01:34:19,880 --> 01:34:21,279
picking out hypostasis.

1654
01:34:22,199 --> 01:34:24,479
Speaker 9: Okay, okay, so yeah, answer my question.

1655
01:34:24,600 --> 01:34:24,800
Speaker 4: Thank you.

1656
01:34:25,039 --> 01:34:26,239
Speaker 9: I haven't merry Christmas you.

1657
01:34:26,279 --> 01:34:29,600
Speaker 1: Too, man, I'm just starting to get a little tired

1658
01:34:29,640 --> 01:34:32,359
of I'm not frustrated with you it's just my mind

1659
01:34:32,439 --> 01:34:34,359
is kind of turning to most of a certain point.

1660
01:34:34,399 --> 01:34:41,840
Speaker 2: Lewis V. What's up women going for? I'm your due

1661
01:34:41,880 --> 01:34:43,319
one dollar? How do you claim to be a Christian

1662
01:34:43,359 --> 01:34:46,479
when you've never had visions of huge breasticles in gorge

1663
01:34:46,520 --> 01:34:47,880
with milk? Well, how do you know? I haven't had

1664
01:34:47,960 --> 01:34:50,039
that dream? I just haven't told you guys about it.

1665
01:34:52,640 --> 01:34:55,279
Anonymous three dollars. I love your work. What do you

1666
01:34:55,319 --> 01:34:55,920
think is the best?

1667
01:34:56,680 --> 01:34:56,840
Speaker 9: Who?

1668
01:34:57,079 --> 01:35:03,359
Speaker 1: Wait, what you think is the best better quality? And

1669
01:35:03,560 --> 01:35:07,800
what should you focus on? I think the best thing

1670
01:35:07,880 --> 01:35:08,239
you can.

1671
01:35:08,199 --> 01:35:10,319
Speaker 2: Do in debate is to.

1672
01:35:13,640 --> 01:35:20,399
Speaker 1: Try to be defeated and being serious. What yes, I'm

1673
01:35:20,439 --> 01:35:22,960
being one er percent serious. Why would you try to

1674
01:35:23,000 --> 01:35:27,039
be defeated? Because what I want to do in a

1675
01:35:27,119 --> 01:35:33,399
debate is know everything about the other position as good

1676
01:35:33,439 --> 01:35:37,399
as or better than they do, And I want the

1677
01:35:37,560 --> 01:35:40,520
truth so bad that I actually want.

1678
01:35:40,479 --> 01:35:45,279
Speaker 2: Them to show me if I'm wrong. I think that's

1679
01:35:45,359 --> 01:35:45,680
the key.

1680
01:35:45,800 --> 01:35:48,239
Speaker 1: But I think most people probably think that I go

1681
01:35:48,399 --> 01:35:50,479
into a debate or I go about this kind of

1682
01:35:50,520 --> 01:35:55,279
stuff just to show off or just to always cop

1683
01:35:55,319 --> 01:35:59,399
a win. Actually know the way that I think I

1684
01:35:59,479 --> 01:36:02,359
got to be good at what I do in this

1685
01:36:02,520 --> 01:36:09,239
domain is through always wanting to be corrected if I

1686
01:36:09,359 --> 01:36:11,399
was wrong, and I've been wrong about many things.

1687
01:36:11,399 --> 01:36:14,239
Speaker 2: In fact, I was thinking the other day about making.

1688
01:36:14,039 --> 01:36:17,119
Speaker 1: A YouTube video about all the places I was wrong,

1689
01:36:17,680 --> 01:36:20,359
because YouTube now like all these the videos that are popular,

1690
01:36:20,359 --> 01:36:21,920
the ones that pop up are like these kinds of

1691
01:36:22,000 --> 01:36:25,520
like personal. You know, I was wrong about everything, So

1692
01:36:25,920 --> 01:36:27,800
I was thinking about making some kind of video like that.

1693
01:36:28,159 --> 01:36:32,840
So I think people mistakenly think the debate is a

1694
01:36:32,960 --> 01:36:36,199
thing where you're just going in to demonstrate how right

1695
01:36:36,279 --> 01:36:38,960
you are. That's actually not what you're doing. What you're

1696
01:36:39,000 --> 01:36:41,560
doing is you want to go in and you actually

1697
01:36:41,680 --> 01:36:45,520
want to be corrected if you're wrong, and so, well,

1698
01:36:45,640 --> 01:36:49,479
how would that make me win debates? Because if I

1699
01:36:50,119 --> 01:36:53,720
am debating somebody who's a Muslim and I'm listening to

1700
01:36:53,800 --> 01:36:57,960
their debates, I want to know what their good arguments

1701
01:36:58,000 --> 01:37:00,720
are and where they're right and if they are right.

1702
01:37:00,920 --> 01:37:04,760
Speaker 2: Maybe they're not, but maybe they are. So this process

1703
01:37:04,880 --> 01:37:09,560
of always and not every human being is going to

1704
01:37:09,600 --> 01:37:10,279
be successful in this.

1705
01:37:10,439 --> 01:37:12,840
Speaker 1: Sometimes you're gonna fail at it because you're human, you're limited,

1706
01:37:12,880 --> 01:37:14,560
you're weak, you don't have not all the time in

1707
01:37:14,600 --> 01:37:19,119
the world. But if you're at least trying to understand

1708
01:37:19,399 --> 01:37:23,760
the other position. You're gonna be much better off than

1709
01:37:24,000 --> 01:37:27,880
if you're not and you're just playing games and you're whatever.

1710
01:37:28,039 --> 01:37:30,399
And some of you might think that, oh, he's ignored

1711
01:37:30,479 --> 01:37:33,880
my argument. It's because I can already since within about

1712
01:37:34,119 --> 01:37:37,159
twenty thirty seconds, that you don't have a good argument. Sorry,

1713
01:37:37,960 --> 01:37:39,720
And you can interpret her however you want. You can

1714
01:37:39,760 --> 01:37:41,119
think I'm ignoring you and I'm scared of you.

1715
01:37:41,279 --> 01:37:42,760
Speaker 2: Whatever. It's fine. I'm not.

1716
01:37:43,399 --> 01:37:46,520
Speaker 1: I can tell right away. And that's because I've been

1717
01:37:46,520 --> 01:37:49,279
doing this since I was eighteen or nineteen. So some

1718
01:37:49,359 --> 01:37:52,920
people have been playing guitar since they were teenagers. I've

1719
01:37:52,920 --> 01:37:56,479
been doing this, and that's why I do have a

1720
01:37:56,560 --> 01:38:00,399
reputation of not losing debates, because I go into debates

1721
01:38:00,439 --> 01:38:03,880
wanting to lose debates, meaning that I want to know

1722
01:38:04,279 --> 01:38:08,920
the actual position and arguments of the opponent. And I

1723
01:38:09,000 --> 01:38:11,399
can only think of a couple times in public debates

1724
01:38:11,439 --> 01:38:13,399
since I've been doing them on YouTube at least. I mean,

1725
01:38:13,399 --> 01:38:15,760
I've been doing debates since I was eighteen nineteen, but

1726
01:38:16,520 --> 01:38:19,800
in terms of public YouTube debates, I can only think

1727
01:38:19,840 --> 01:38:22,960
of a couple times where and this is this happens

1728
01:38:23,000 --> 01:38:25,239
in debates because you don't always know, for example, what

1729
01:38:25,279 --> 01:38:27,560
people are going to bring in their opening statement, and

1730
01:38:27,640 --> 01:38:29,439
you don't always know what they're going to bring across

1731
01:38:29,680 --> 01:38:34,199
examinations or rebuttals, right, so they might bring some.

1732
01:38:34,199 --> 01:38:35,600
Speaker 2: Of the table that you've never heard.

1733
01:38:37,239 --> 01:38:40,000
Speaker 1: They might in their opening statement throughout something that you

1734
01:38:40,079 --> 01:38:42,079
don't know about. And I can think of a couple

1735
01:38:42,239 --> 01:38:46,359
times in public debates where people through curve balls or

1736
01:38:46,479 --> 01:38:47,279
through stuff at me.

1737
01:38:47,319 --> 01:38:48,520
Speaker 2: That I wasn't really familiar with.

1738
01:38:49,199 --> 01:38:51,720
Speaker 1: But even that doesn't necessarily mean you lose the whole debate,

1739
01:38:51,920 --> 01:38:54,600
because debates cover a lot. They can cover, you know,

1740
01:38:55,079 --> 01:38:58,640
a lot of broad topics, a lot of information, a

1741
01:38:58,720 --> 01:39:02,439
lot of disputed points. So I think winning and losing

1742
01:39:02,520 --> 01:39:07,960
debates ultimately ends up being about who has overall the

1743
01:39:08,039 --> 01:39:12,359
best argument. Unfortunately, a lot of debates nowadays ends up

1744
01:39:12,479 --> 01:39:16,600
coming down to thirty second clips, which is really lame.

1745
01:39:17,680 --> 01:39:19,520
Speaker 2: There's not really any way to stop that, but.

1746
01:39:21,199 --> 01:39:23,960
Speaker 1: People have such shot attention spans and everybody's so lazy

1747
01:39:24,079 --> 01:39:26,560
that I guess that's kind of unavoidable.

1748
01:39:26,600 --> 01:39:27,000
Speaker 2: But I don't know.

1749
01:39:27,039 --> 01:39:30,119
Speaker 1: I just spent like twenty minutes replying to a question

1750
01:39:30,159 --> 01:39:33,840
about debate. So I think if you wanted to be

1751
01:39:33,920 --> 01:39:35,479
a good debater. What I would focus on.

1752
01:39:35,720 --> 01:39:38,840
Speaker 2: I always tell people go listen to the Monson Steining

1753
01:39:38,880 --> 01:39:42,439
debate about five or ten times, take notes on it.

1754
01:39:43,319 --> 01:39:45,319
Learn the way that Bonson.

1755
01:39:44,960 --> 01:39:47,159
Speaker 1: Debates, because he was probably one of the best debaters

1756
01:39:47,199 --> 01:39:51,159
at least the last century. He's just a master at

1757
01:39:51,199 --> 01:39:53,319
It doesn't mean I agree with all his positions, but

1758
01:39:53,399 --> 01:39:54,199
he was a really good debater.

1759
01:39:55,119 --> 01:39:57,600
Speaker 2: I wish. Actually, the sad part is that I wish

1760
01:39:57,840 --> 01:39:59,199
Monson had done more debates.

1761
01:40:00,000 --> 01:40:02,159
Speaker 1: I've had a lot of really fascinating, great debates to

1762
01:40:02,239 --> 01:40:04,319
study if he had done more.

1763
01:40:04,479 --> 01:40:05,680
Speaker 2: Of course, Bonson died.

1764
01:40:05,520 --> 01:40:11,119
Speaker 1: Somewhat young, but I would say study Greg Bonson's Gornstein

1765
01:40:11,199 --> 01:40:13,880
debate and his other debates, because even the Tabash debate

1766
01:40:13,920 --> 01:40:14,600
there's stuff.

1767
01:40:14,399 --> 01:40:17,000
Speaker 2: To study there as well. I've done reviews of all

1768
01:40:17,039 --> 01:40:18,920
those debates on my channel if you go into the archives.

1769
01:40:20,399 --> 01:40:23,800
But yeah, it's not for everybody. It's not a.

1770
01:40:25,359 --> 01:40:28,600
Speaker 1: It's not a talent or a thing that many people respect.

1771
01:40:28,680 --> 01:40:31,680
I guess the Internet makes it somewhat respectable, but.

1772
01:40:33,279 --> 01:40:33,600
Speaker 9: I don't know.

1773
01:40:34,439 --> 01:40:35,399
Speaker 2: People just think that.

1774
01:40:35,520 --> 01:40:38,840
Speaker 1: You're a jerk and that you're just trying to be mean,

1775
01:40:39,039 --> 01:40:41,199
or that you just want to show out and that's

1776
01:40:41,279 --> 01:40:43,399
not really what it is. I mean, it really is

1777
01:40:43,479 --> 01:40:45,319
about pursuit of truth.

1778
01:40:48,439 --> 01:40:55,600
Speaker 2: Anyway. So you say, what should I focus on?

1779
01:40:56,159 --> 01:40:58,359
Speaker 1: Well, if I was just starting out, I would say, again,

1780
01:40:58,520 --> 01:41:01,920
watch the Boston Stein debate and learn the basic fallacies.

1781
01:41:01,960 --> 01:41:02,840
Speaker 2: That's like step one.

1782
01:41:04,680 --> 01:41:07,039
Speaker 1: And obviously, you know, if you watch a lot of debates,

1783
01:41:07,520 --> 01:41:09,680
you're gonna notice how how it goes, the.

1784
01:41:09,760 --> 01:41:16,279
Speaker 2: Flow, how people operate. And I would just start taking

1785
01:41:16,319 --> 01:41:19,199
philosophy classes. I mean, you really can't. You can't be

1786
01:41:19,239 --> 01:41:24,079
an effective debater if you haven't had some basic philosophy classes.

1787
01:41:24,279 --> 01:41:26,800
Speaker 1: You need a logic class, you need a pistemology class,

1788
01:41:28,359 --> 01:41:31,439
you probably need metaphysics class, ethics class.

1789
01:41:33,039 --> 01:41:36,039
Speaker 2: I mean, it just depends on how far you want

1790
01:41:36,079 --> 01:41:37,840
to go. Same with like people say this about music,

1791
01:41:37,960 --> 01:41:40,159
I want to learn the guitar, Well are you sure?

1792
01:41:40,279 --> 01:41:41,960
I mean, you're gonna have to do some work.

1793
01:41:42,840 --> 01:41:45,199
Speaker 1: You're not gonna be able to like listen to the

1794
01:41:45,279 --> 01:41:47,359
bonds and signed debate and then suddenly you're a debater.

1795
01:41:47,439 --> 01:41:49,720
It just doesn't work like anything like this. Just like

1796
01:41:49,800 --> 01:41:52,119
playing guitar classical, like you have to put a lot

1797
01:41:52,119 --> 01:41:55,840
of time in so but that's the start, David, A

1798
01:41:55,920 --> 01:41:56,720
one dollar take is so much?

1799
01:41:56,760 --> 01:41:59,159
Speaker 2: Clip and trim one dollar? You should? Should we open

1800
01:41:59,239 --> 01:42:00,239
up a clip and trim him?

1801
01:42:00,439 --> 01:42:03,359
Speaker 1: On Bitcoin Island, you can try because it's going to

1802
01:42:03,399 --> 01:42:05,159
be libertarian fantasy island.

1803
01:42:05,239 --> 01:42:07,279
Speaker 2: And I mean it's that means it's a free market, bro.

1804
01:42:07,880 --> 01:42:09,399
Speaker 1: So you know, if you want to be over there

1805
01:42:09,439 --> 01:42:15,239
cutting tattoos hair, maybe, but also if tattoo is our

1806
01:42:15,359 --> 01:42:19,840
private security contractor enforcer, if you cut his hair wrong,

1807
01:42:20,920 --> 01:42:21,720
you might wake.

1808
01:42:21,680 --> 01:42:27,159
Speaker 2: Up missing a finger or two. So that's your Jess McCall.

1809
01:42:28,760 --> 01:42:33,840
Speaker 1: Trevor, it's a very nineties preppy dude named Trevor.

1810
01:42:36,920 --> 01:42:37,880
Speaker 4: Hello, can you hear me?

1811
01:42:38,239 --> 01:42:38,479
Speaker 9: Huh?

1812
01:42:39,680 --> 01:42:40,199
Speaker 19: How's it going?

1813
01:42:40,279 --> 01:42:42,800
Speaker 2: Chair good? I mean, I'm a little tired of my

1814
01:42:42,840 --> 01:42:43,960
mind as motion, but what's up?

1815
01:42:45,239 --> 01:42:47,920
Speaker 33: Yeah, I've been on here. I get why you didn't

1816
01:42:47,920 --> 01:42:50,159
pick me for the last few times i've been on here.

1817
01:42:50,199 --> 01:42:52,560
I'm a pretty like ain't on account, but I have

1818
01:42:52,640 --> 01:42:58,039
a few questions about tag if you'll answer them, Okay, Yeah,

1819
01:42:58,119 --> 01:43:02,000
they're the generic questions us from the outset. I just

1820
01:43:02,079 --> 01:43:05,039
get the impression that it's begging the question, and uh,

1821
01:43:05,880 --> 01:43:08,640
I do have a problem with the premise, the impossibility

1822
01:43:08,680 --> 01:43:09,439
of the contrary.

1823
01:43:11,279 --> 01:43:14,199
Speaker 1: So, so if I say X is a necessary condition

1824
01:43:14,279 --> 01:43:16,520
of why why therefore X? Do you think that's not

1825
01:43:16,720 --> 01:43:17,600
a valid form?

1826
01:43:20,119 --> 01:43:20,279
Speaker 18: Yeah?

1827
01:43:20,359 --> 01:43:22,159
Speaker 4: I think I think the form is correct. I just

1828
01:43:23,000 --> 01:43:24,319
proving proving the premise.

1829
01:43:24,520 --> 01:43:26,800
Speaker 33: The impossibility of the contrary is just something I have

1830
01:43:26,960 --> 01:43:28,439
a I'm just curious about.

1831
01:43:28,960 --> 01:43:31,199
Speaker 1: Well, I mean, that's not the only way that you

1832
01:43:31,520 --> 01:43:33,720
can state the argument. You can state the argument that

1833
01:43:34,560 --> 01:43:38,640
only the Christian paradigm gives an account for ethics, metaphysics,

1834
01:43:38,680 --> 01:43:41,640
and epistemology. I could phrase it like that, so I

1835
01:43:41,680 --> 01:43:43,039
don't have to use I don't use you have to

1836
01:43:43,159 --> 01:43:46,439
use the phraseology of by the impossibility of the contrary?

1837
01:43:47,520 --> 01:43:50,960
Speaker 4: Okay, how do you how do you prove the well?

1838
01:43:51,079 --> 01:43:54,159
Speaker 1: Because any other paradigm is not going to be able

1839
01:43:54,199 --> 01:43:58,640
to give an account for knowledge ethicsstem, I mean metaphysics,

1840
01:43:59,520 --> 01:43:59,920
mm hmm.

1841
01:44:00,039 --> 01:44:00,920
Speaker 4: How do you How do you prove that?

1842
01:44:01,000 --> 01:44:01,159
Speaker 9: Though?

1843
01:44:01,520 --> 01:44:05,359
Speaker 1: Because there's a limited number of starting points for any

1844
01:44:05,520 --> 01:44:11,079
possible position in ethics, epistemology, in metaphysics, it's not an

1845
01:44:11,119 --> 01:44:12,039
infinite variety.

1846
01:44:13,600 --> 01:44:15,560
Speaker 33: Sure, I get that, but how do you demonstrate that

1847
01:44:15,640 --> 01:44:17,119
the other world views can't account for that?

1848
01:44:18,680 --> 01:44:23,199
Speaker 1: Because the other worldviews have to choose some binary in

1849
01:44:23,479 --> 01:44:28,119
either in either those three disciplines. So for example, either

1850
01:44:28,479 --> 01:44:35,720
knowledge is objective or it's subjective. Okay, there's not an

1851
01:44:35,760 --> 01:44:38,840
infinite there's not an infinite series of options that you

1852
01:44:38,880 --> 01:44:42,119
could choose to give an account for that binary.

1853
01:44:43,399 --> 01:44:47,159
Speaker 2: Yeah, and either one you either route you choose is.

1854
01:44:47,239 --> 01:44:49,880
Speaker 1: Going to determine a bunch of other things in the

1855
01:44:49,960 --> 01:44:52,640
system or in the worldview. So likewise, with metaphysics, like

1856
01:44:53,319 --> 01:44:57,359
either the universe you know, is eternal or it has

1857
01:44:57,479 --> 01:44:58,000
a beginning.

1858
01:44:58,960 --> 01:45:00,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's not an infinet variation in there.

1859
01:45:02,239 --> 01:45:02,439
Speaker 10: Yeah.

1860
01:45:02,479 --> 01:45:05,000
Speaker 33: How do you also handle the begging the question part?

1861
01:45:05,000 --> 01:45:07,359
Because for me on the outset, it just seems like it's.

1862
01:45:07,279 --> 01:45:09,960
Speaker 9: Begging the question. How would you handle that type.

1863
01:45:09,760 --> 01:45:12,319
Speaker 2: Of Well, why is it begging the question? I mean,

1864
01:45:12,399 --> 01:45:14,640
if you admitted that the form is valid, why would

1865
01:45:14,680 --> 01:45:16,439
it be begging the question? That would that would call

1866
01:45:16,439 --> 01:45:17,319
it a question the form?

1867
01:45:18,159 --> 01:45:24,000
Speaker 33: Yeah, well, isn't God accounting for the transcendentals and stuff?

1868
01:45:24,199 --> 01:45:30,079
Speaker 1: In the premise, The argument is that there is knowledge.

1869
01:45:30,680 --> 01:45:34,800
Knowledge is only possible if there are transcendental categories. Transcendental

1870
01:45:34,880 --> 01:45:38,880
categories are only grounded or made sense if it can

1871
01:45:38,960 --> 01:45:40,600
only be made sense of if God exists.

1872
01:45:42,960 --> 01:45:46,000
Speaker 33: Okay, so you're saying it's just am I mistaking the

1873
01:45:47,000 --> 01:45:48,239
conclusion for a premise here?

1874
01:45:48,319 --> 01:45:48,920
Speaker 2: Is that what I think?

1875
01:45:48,960 --> 01:45:49,000
Speaker 9: So?

1876
01:45:49,239 --> 01:45:52,199
Speaker 1: Like, well, I mean if I lay it out that way,

1877
01:45:52,479 --> 01:45:54,760
you can tell me what the problem is, so the

1878
01:45:54,920 --> 01:45:57,359
argument and maybe you just disagree with the argument, then

1879
01:45:57,399 --> 01:46:03,600
I need to know why if knowledge exists, knowledge is

1880
01:46:04,039 --> 01:46:09,720
predicated on the preconditions of knowledge, which are the transital categories.

1881
01:46:10,239 --> 01:46:16,000
Transnal categories are not like self evident or in a

1882
01:46:16,079 --> 01:46:19,000
vacuum like they also have to be grounded in something.

1883
01:46:19,520 --> 01:46:21,039
God does the grounding work for those.

1884
01:46:22,920 --> 01:46:24,920
Speaker 4: Okay, yeah, that makes sense.

1885
01:46:27,760 --> 01:46:30,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's my version of how I present tag.

1886
01:46:30,399 --> 01:46:32,920
Speaker 1: I mean other people, there's a lot of goofballs and

1887
01:46:33,000 --> 01:46:34,840
goobers like Matt Slick and people that I.

1888
01:46:34,880 --> 01:46:36,600
Speaker 2: Think are idiots that try to do it but they're

1889
01:46:36,640 --> 01:46:38,159
not very good at it. Right.

1890
01:46:38,640 --> 01:46:38,840
Speaker 20: Yeah.

1891
01:46:39,520 --> 01:46:40,119
Speaker 4: I'll read.

1892
01:46:41,680 --> 01:46:43,840
Speaker 33: Father Deacon in and Issa's paper as well, because I

1893
01:46:43,920 --> 01:46:45,359
just wanted to ask you a few of these because

1894
01:46:45,359 --> 01:46:47,319
I know these are popular objections.

1895
01:46:47,800 --> 01:46:48,880
Speaker 2: And I welcome those.

1896
01:46:49,000 --> 01:46:52,600
Speaker 1: And he actually I think his latest paper addresses the

1897
01:46:54,640 --> 01:46:57,920
last objection that you had. If you haven't read that one, Okay,

1898
01:46:58,039 --> 01:46:59,119
I'll check that out, thank you.

1899
01:47:00,319 --> 01:47:04,119
Speaker 2: Yeah, good questions were likely BO disagree.

1900
01:47:05,720 --> 01:47:05,760
Speaker 9: Ed.

1901
01:47:05,960 --> 01:47:17,720
Speaker 10: D Hey, hey, how you doing.

1902
01:47:18,039 --> 01:47:18,560
Speaker 2: What's up man?

1903
01:47:19,279 --> 01:47:20,199
Speaker 4: Good to talk to you again.

1904
01:47:20,319 --> 01:47:22,680
Speaker 29: Thanks for staying up with a sonatam A bit of

1905
01:47:22,680 --> 01:47:23,079
a night.

1906
01:47:23,000 --> 01:47:26,319
Speaker 4: Oul, so appreciate that longevity of the stream.

1907
01:47:29,079 --> 01:47:33,479
Speaker 29: I was listening in on some of the libertarian Fantasy

1908
01:47:33,520 --> 01:47:36,680
Island stuff earlier, and uh, pretty funny stuff, but I.

1909
01:47:36,760 --> 01:47:39,079
Speaker 2: Kind of liked that idea. I actually kind of want

1910
01:47:39,119 --> 01:47:41,159
to go to libertarian fantasy Island, be honest.

1911
01:47:40,920 --> 01:47:42,680
Speaker 29: With you, Yeah, I'm wondering if a guy that talks

1912
01:47:42,680 --> 01:47:47,199
about setting up a barbershop needs to ask for consent

1913
01:47:47,640 --> 01:47:53,560
every time he sniffs the scissors. Yes, actually, yeah, I

1914
01:47:53,800 --> 01:47:56,760
just wanted to pick your brain on the idea of

1915
01:47:58,079 --> 01:48:01,840
what what do you think is the ideal form of government?

1916
01:48:01,840 --> 01:48:04,319
Obviously nothing is perfect and yep.

1917
01:48:04,199 --> 01:48:04,279
Speaker 18: But.

1918
01:48:07,760 --> 01:48:10,520
Speaker 2: I a libertarian monarchy, that's what I think.

1919
01:48:11,840 --> 01:48:14,399
Speaker 29: See, I was phrasing it to a friend of mine

1920
01:48:14,439 --> 01:48:19,640
as a constitutional monarchy. Would that be, I mean, in

1921
01:48:19,760 --> 01:48:21,359
line with what you're saying or think.

1922
01:48:21,640 --> 01:48:24,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's just that, like the historical versions of constitutional

1923
01:48:25,000 --> 01:48:28,079
monarchies are kind of gay. So as long as we can,

1924
01:48:28,199 --> 01:48:30,119
as long as we could divorce it from like the

1925
01:48:30,279 --> 01:48:31,880
constitutional monarchy that like.

1926
01:48:33,439 --> 01:48:34,079
Speaker 2: There's a lock.

1927
01:48:34,279 --> 01:48:36,800
Speaker 1: I think somebody one of the Enlightenment guys was like,

1928
01:48:37,600 --> 01:48:43,000
we've got to move away from dynastic hereditary monarchy. I

1929
01:48:43,079 --> 01:48:45,079
don't know about that one. That That's what I've never

1930
01:48:45,319 --> 01:48:49,239
been able to figure out whether I think that because

1931
01:48:49,239 --> 01:48:52,600
there's a lot of positives to a dynasty, but there's

1932
01:48:52,640 --> 01:48:54,720
also setbacks drawbacks, So.

1933
01:48:54,800 --> 01:48:57,000
Speaker 2: I don't know. I really don't know right.

1934
01:48:58,720 --> 01:48:58,840
Speaker 4: Now.

1935
01:48:58,960 --> 01:49:02,800
Speaker 29: I know the reference is a bit cringe and overweight,

1936
01:49:02,920 --> 01:49:05,319
but the I don't know. If you're into the Game

1937
01:49:05,359 --> 01:49:06,359
of Thrones, that all right?

1938
01:49:06,520 --> 01:49:06,960
Speaker 20: George R.

1939
01:49:07,079 --> 01:49:09,760
Speaker 2: Martin being a kind of a strange I watched the show,

1940
01:49:09,880 --> 01:49:11,640
but I've never never read the book.

1941
01:49:12,359 --> 01:49:15,119
Speaker 29: There's there's kind of a line in the show talks

1942
01:49:15,119 --> 01:49:18,720
about the crown in the faith or the twin pillars

1943
01:49:18,760 --> 01:49:22,399
of the world, and I thought, you know that that

1944
01:49:22,560 --> 01:49:22,800
kind of.

1945
01:49:22,800 --> 01:49:27,520
Speaker 1: Stuck with me, like, yeah, expresses that expressview right.

1946
01:49:28,560 --> 01:49:31,760
Speaker 29: Thinking thinking about that, I mean that's more ideal, right,

1947
01:49:31,800 --> 01:49:35,520
we talk about like I guess, grievances with the papacy

1948
01:49:35,640 --> 01:49:41,680
and deposing emperors and stuff of that nature, but I

1949
01:49:41,760 --> 01:49:45,319
mean wanting something that's more cohesive, right, Like.

1950
01:49:49,279 --> 01:49:50,119
Speaker 4: Am I am I wrong?

1951
01:49:50,159 --> 01:49:51,600
Speaker 19: In saying like the.

1952
01:49:53,720 --> 01:49:59,199
Speaker 29: Bishops sat next to the Byzantine emperor like a two

1953
01:49:59,359 --> 01:50:00,279
thrones suation.

1954
01:50:01,239 --> 01:50:03,439
Speaker 2: Well, that's the whole purpose of the double headed eagle.

1955
01:50:03,520 --> 01:50:05,800
Speaker 19: So yeah, right, uh.

1956
01:50:07,199 --> 01:50:11,239
Speaker 29: I mean, and it gets into I guess a dodgy territory.

1957
01:50:11,319 --> 01:50:14,039
And I've had quite a few arguments with these guys,

1958
01:50:14,399 --> 01:50:17,520
but I mean, I'm leaning into the idea of at

1959
01:50:17,560 --> 01:50:19,159
that point Christian nationalism.

1960
01:50:20,199 --> 01:50:23,720
Speaker 4: And you say that and people get afraid of that one.

1961
01:50:24,760 --> 01:50:26,800
Speaker 2: It doesn't bother me or I'm not afraid of it.

1962
01:50:26,920 --> 01:50:29,680
Speaker 1: It's just that a lot of the discourse right now

1963
01:50:29,800 --> 01:50:33,720
about Christian nationalism, people think that that's a thing that

1964
01:50:33,760 --> 01:50:34,960
we're going to enact right now.

1965
01:50:36,239 --> 01:50:38,359
Speaker 2: I don't know how. I just don't think that's very feasible.

1966
01:50:38,520 --> 01:50:40,880
Speaker 1: I think the reason is that, you like, we've already

1967
01:50:40,920 --> 01:50:43,439
been turned into this pagan culture, so I think we

1968
01:50:43,479 --> 01:50:46,600
would have to re christianize the culture, which will take

1969
01:50:46,680 --> 01:50:47,920
which will take a long time.

1970
01:50:48,800 --> 01:50:53,039
Speaker 29: Sure, So I think there's there's models in where, you know,

1971
01:50:53,199 --> 01:50:58,119
like I had actually mentioned this too, Owen Schreyer talked

1972
01:50:58,159 --> 01:51:01,000
about discrepancies and payout an x or something like that,

1973
01:51:01,840 --> 01:51:08,199
and how in a way it promotes pornography and that

1974
01:51:08,359 --> 01:51:14,199
being kind of one of the avenues of rotting the culture. Yeah,

1975
01:51:14,399 --> 01:51:20,359
like it monetizes beginning things that were pornographic in nature.

1976
01:51:20,560 --> 01:51:23,600
In my opinion, I'm not saying you can't post it, post.

1977
01:51:23,399 --> 01:51:26,119
Speaker 2: What you want and gorge milkers.

1978
01:51:28,279 --> 01:51:32,319
Speaker 29: Yeah, leaking overies, leaking memories and.

1979
01:51:32,520 --> 01:51:37,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, so spiritual though, right it's uh.

1980
01:51:39,840 --> 01:51:43,720
Speaker 1: Okay, So what so you're saying, uh, there's a ethical

1981
01:51:44,039 --> 01:51:46,479
you know, issue with monetizing that.

1982
01:51:46,920 --> 01:51:48,079
Speaker 2: And so what was the argument?

1983
01:51:49,399 --> 01:51:51,279
Speaker 29: Well, I was making the point to him, it's it's

1984
01:51:51,359 --> 01:51:55,520
what's being monetized pornography kind of rotting the culture, Like

1985
01:51:55,600 --> 01:51:58,399
you said, you know, walk the culture back before something

1986
01:51:58,520 --> 01:52:03,279
like Christian nationalism could take place in the Chinese. You know,

1987
01:52:03,439 --> 01:52:06,520
for all their flaws, they are pretty on the ball

1988
01:52:06,560 --> 01:52:09,960
when it comes to culture war right there. Their social

1989
01:52:10,039 --> 01:52:14,199
media is promote uh, academia like the like they know.

1990
01:52:14,279 --> 01:52:16,520
Speaker 2: What damages and doesn't damage populations.

1991
01:52:16,600 --> 01:52:20,880
Speaker 29: Yeah, yeah, exactly, And that's something that I think that

1992
01:52:21,880 --> 01:52:25,880
you know, I mean, people are very black and white.

1993
01:52:26,279 --> 01:52:28,720
Speaker 4: If he are whatever on Elon Musk.

1994
01:52:29,399 --> 01:52:33,760
Speaker 2: It don't matter if you're black, girl, white, that's gonna.

1995
01:52:33,520 --> 01:52:36,680
Speaker 29: Be one of his responsibilities, I would think, or anyone

1996
01:52:36,720 --> 01:52:41,279
who owns and manages Western social media. If we want

1997
01:52:41,319 --> 01:52:45,880
to go that way is don't promote the pornography, don't.

1998
01:52:45,720 --> 01:52:49,800
Speaker 1: Promote they're saying, yeah, eventually, Yeah, So if we're going

1999
01:52:49,840 --> 01:52:54,319
to have like Christian ethic and nationalism on a social scale,

2000
01:52:54,960 --> 01:52:58,760
there would need to be you know, enactments against a

2001
01:52:58,800 --> 01:53:00,920
lot of this online generousy Yeah.

2002
01:53:00,960 --> 01:53:03,439
Speaker 2: I think so. I think we're a good ways away

2003
01:53:03,479 --> 01:53:03,760
from that.

2004
01:53:03,800 --> 01:53:07,560
Speaker 1: Though, And I'm not trying to be like, there is

2005
01:53:07,680 --> 01:53:13,159
something to this point that Alex talks about that a

2006
01:53:13,239 --> 01:53:18,199
lot of the legislation I'm suspicious is not ultimately about

2007
01:53:18,279 --> 01:53:21,239
saving kids. I think that I'm concerned that some of

2008
01:53:21,279 --> 01:53:25,520
the legislation that they claim is about prawn might actually

2009
01:53:25,600 --> 01:53:26,359
be about.

2010
01:53:27,000 --> 01:53:33,840
Speaker 2: Shutting down dissident political speech. So because a lot of

2011
01:53:33,920 --> 01:53:34,600
times they'll.

2012
01:53:34,439 --> 01:53:36,319
Speaker 1: Couch it in this all we care about the they

2013
01:53:36,319 --> 01:53:39,960
don't care about kids, that nobody believes they care about kids.

2014
01:53:41,399 --> 01:53:44,680
And I think the UK was the most recent version

2015
01:53:44,720 --> 01:53:46,119
of this where they were like, oh, we're going to

2016
01:53:47,159 --> 01:53:50,680
set up like age restrictions on the Internet, which makes

2017
01:53:50,760 --> 01:53:54,720
sense theoretically, but I don't think that's really what they want.

2018
01:53:54,800 --> 01:53:57,880
I think ultimately it's about probably eventually trying to have

2019
01:53:58,000 --> 01:54:07,000
some kind of Internet ID type of thing. So I

2020
01:54:07,079 --> 01:54:12,039
don't know what this is all like super complex stuff.

2021
01:54:12,079 --> 01:54:13,079
Speaker 2: I don't know what the answer is.

2022
01:54:15,279 --> 01:54:18,239
Speaker 1: Read what we need Libertarian fantasy island, I don't know,

2023
01:54:18,399 --> 01:54:21,479
and like everyone like what if everybody has their own.

2024
01:54:21,359 --> 01:54:26,039
Speaker 2: Island or something? This is so crazy, I don't know.

2025
01:54:29,439 --> 01:54:30,760
It's like orson Scott.

2026
01:54:30,600 --> 01:54:34,600
Speaker 1: Carr's Mormon, like his universe where there's like a Mormon

2027
01:54:34,720 --> 01:54:38,640
planet and a Catholic planet, like like maybe.

2028
01:54:38,479 --> 01:54:40,279
Speaker 2: We get out, Like I don't really believe in all

2029
01:54:40,319 --> 01:54:42,680
the space stuff, but could we.

2030
01:54:42,760 --> 01:54:46,359
Speaker 1: Have, like instead of nation states, what if we could

2031
01:54:46,399 --> 01:54:48,960
just divide up the Earth to have like you go

2032
01:54:49,119 --> 01:54:53,239
have your degenerate society over here. And if all the

2033
01:54:53,720 --> 01:54:56,319
purple haired freaks want to go live in a crazy cult,

2034
01:54:56,479 --> 01:54:56,840
go do it.

2035
01:54:57,039 --> 01:54:59,600
Speaker 2: Go here, go over here, you know what I mean?

2036
01:54:59,680 --> 01:55:01,840
That would the ideal, But of course that's never gonna happen.

2037
01:55:01,920 --> 01:55:06,399
Speaker 1: But orthodox bitcoin island over here to go test that out,

2038
01:55:06,840 --> 01:55:09,600
you know, Roman Catholic trad world.

2039
01:55:09,760 --> 01:55:12,439
Speaker 2: Go over there, go do your thing over there? Could

2040
01:55:12,479 --> 01:55:12,800
we do that?

2041
01:55:12,960 --> 01:55:13,319
Speaker 4: I don't know.

2042
01:55:13,720 --> 01:55:15,880
Speaker 2: I mean, that's totally idealistic, it's not realistic, but it

2043
01:55:15,960 --> 01:55:28,039
sounds fun. What's up Rachel. Hello, Hey, Hey, I only

2044
01:55:28,079 --> 01:55:30,640
wanted to say one thing, which is that I already

2045
01:55:30,960 --> 01:55:31,960
I can already tell you.

2046
01:55:32,479 --> 01:55:35,800
Speaker 10: That libertarian Fantasy Island is just gonna end up being

2047
01:55:35,880 --> 01:55:36,479
busted uff.

2048
01:55:38,079 --> 01:55:39,039
Speaker 2: That is a danger.

2049
01:55:39,119 --> 01:55:43,079
Speaker 1: It does seem like, Yeah, I mean the TV show

2050
01:55:44,000 --> 01:55:46,079
I remember watching it as a kid. Wasn't it like

2051
01:55:46,920 --> 01:55:49,039
where they create your fantasy or something.

2052
01:55:50,479 --> 01:55:50,960
Speaker 33: I don't know.

2053
01:55:51,079 --> 01:55:51,800
Speaker 9: I never watched.

2054
01:55:55,000 --> 01:55:56,880
Speaker 4: No, I should have, I'm an eighties kid, but I

2055
01:55:57,319 --> 01:55:58,359
just never watched it.

2056
01:55:58,720 --> 01:55:58,800
Speaker 20: An.

2057
01:56:00,720 --> 01:56:02,840
Speaker 19: I just know from debating libertarians for.

2058
01:56:02,960 --> 01:56:05,279
Speaker 2: Years now, it just ends up being Look, look, I

2059
01:56:05,399 --> 01:56:08,720
want to put something in my buck, so bring me alone.

2060
01:56:09,279 --> 01:56:12,720
Speaker 19: Right, Yeah, basically, basically.

2061
01:56:13,760 --> 01:56:14,359
Speaker 10: That's all I have.

2062
01:56:14,920 --> 01:56:17,840
Speaker 1: Uh, fair enough, great point. That's why we need like

2063
01:56:18,079 --> 01:56:20,800
orthodox bitcoin Fantasy Island.

2064
01:56:24,479 --> 01:56:26,920
Speaker 2: So let's see. They made they remade this five years ago.

2065
01:56:27,039 --> 01:56:28,840
Did I see this? I can't remember if I watched this.

2066
01:56:29,439 --> 01:56:35,600
They made a TV show, Fantasy Island. Oh, I did

2067
01:56:35,680 --> 01:56:38,560
see this. I did see Fantasy Island. It was mid.

2068
01:56:43,199 --> 01:56:46,000
Speaker 1: In the TV show. It was not what you expect

2069
01:56:46,039 --> 01:56:50,399
you think it's going to be, like I mean, in

2070
01:56:50,479 --> 01:56:53,359
the movie the remake, it just didn't make sense. It

2071
01:56:53,479 --> 01:56:59,640
wasn't very good. It's funny too, because he's like, have

2072
01:56:59,800 --> 01:57:01,720
these path of people don't even know what I'm talking about.

2073
01:57:01,800 --> 01:57:03,399
They've never heard of Fantish. But when you're a kid.

2074
01:57:03,479 --> 01:57:06,520
When I was a kid, I never liked this show.

2075
01:57:06,560 --> 01:57:09,479
I just remember it coming on, right, and you've got

2076
01:57:09,640 --> 01:57:12,119
Ricardo Montalban, who's like the host of this island.

2077
01:57:12,119 --> 01:57:14,199
Speaker 2: I don't even know what his pet midget dude is even, Like,

2078
01:57:14,359 --> 01:57:15,399
what's the point of this dude?

2079
01:57:15,960 --> 01:57:18,000
Speaker 1: I just he just comes out and screams the plane.

2080
01:57:18,720 --> 01:57:21,560
If you're a kid in the eighties, everybody you you'll

2081
01:57:21,640 --> 01:57:24,680
never forget this because there's this plane bringing the new

2082
01:57:26,039 --> 01:57:28,479
I don't know what they are test.

2083
01:57:28,359 --> 01:57:31,680
Speaker 2: Subjects to mk ultra Fantasy Island. I'll show you, guys,

2084
01:57:33,760 --> 01:57:35,399
Fantasy Island. Okay, what is this?

2085
01:57:39,000 --> 01:57:39,239
Speaker 4: You got?

2086
01:57:39,319 --> 01:57:41,439
Speaker 1: Retard O Montalban. That's one of my favorite jokes of

2087
01:57:41,479 --> 01:57:47,600
all time. So here comes the plane that's bringing the

2088
01:57:47,720 --> 01:57:53,640
new couple. It's arriving at Fantasy Island, and then the

2089
01:57:53,680 --> 01:57:57,760
little midget dude is going to scream Boss Boss the

2090
01:57:57,800 --> 01:57:58,760
plane to plane.

2091
01:58:09,159 --> 01:58:10,880
Speaker 13: Delan Slain.

2092
01:58:15,600 --> 01:58:17,880
Speaker 10: There you go, they playing they plan.

2093
01:58:18,520 --> 01:58:21,359
Speaker 1: I think he does it again too, when uh Ricardo

2094
01:58:21,560 --> 01:58:33,399
Ritardo Montalban picks him up. So you got like little

2095
01:58:33,600 --> 01:58:36,640
like Hawaiian chicks running around. I think this is supposed

2096
01:58:36,640 --> 01:58:39,399
to be some kind of hint hint situation.

2097
01:58:40,880 --> 01:58:46,319
Speaker 19: Look, how do you like my new can oh Handsome

2098
01:58:46,520 --> 01:58:48,279
the True very handsome.

2099
01:58:48,720 --> 01:58:49,640
Speaker 9: It's my new hobby.

2100
01:58:51,479 --> 01:58:54,399
Speaker 2: By the way, did you know Ricardo montalban I think

2101
01:58:54,399 --> 01:58:55,199
he's a tradcat.

2102
01:58:56,000 --> 01:58:58,680
Speaker 1: I remember when I was Roman Catholic watching a Rosary

2103
01:58:59,479 --> 01:59:03,279
document and it had Ricardo Montabon in it.

2104
01:59:05,760 --> 01:59:07,720
Speaker 2: Anyway, so people.

2105
01:59:07,800 --> 01:59:10,479
Speaker 1: Land and then I guess the island makes your fantasy

2106
01:59:10,520 --> 01:59:16,239
come true, but they can't show like whatever degenerate fantasies

2107
01:59:16,279 --> 01:59:19,880
everybody has in an eighty show. So I'm trying to

2108
01:59:19,880 --> 01:59:22,600
remember what the premise of the show is. Let's find out,

2109
01:59:30,399 --> 01:59:42,920
and I'm about done for So what is the premise?

2110
01:59:44,640 --> 01:59:49,720
A luxury, luxurious, remote island resort. The enigmatic mister Rourke

2111
01:59:50,600 --> 01:59:53,880
makes the secret dreams of well healed guests come true,

2112
01:59:54,720 --> 01:59:58,319
although twist of fate turn those dreams sometimes into the nightmares.

2113
01:59:58,720 --> 02:00:03,359
He's assisted by Tattoos, a little person who is always

2114
02:00:03,399 --> 02:00:06,319
trusted to sing out the plane the plane as the

2115
02:00:06,439 --> 02:00:07,079
guests arrive.

2116
02:00:13,279 --> 02:00:15,760
Speaker 2: Okay, well that doesn't really tell me exactly what I

2117
02:00:15,840 --> 02:00:16,960
don't know him. It's weird stuff.

2118
02:00:17,039 --> 02:00:23,439
Speaker 1: It's probably some kind of mk ultra island or something. Okay,

2119
02:00:26,000 --> 02:00:27,680
I don't know what you're thumbing down. What are you

2120
02:00:27,760 --> 02:00:36,760
thumbing down? You're go ahead, man, what's up? I'm emissary.

2121
02:00:39,960 --> 02:00:41,439
Speaker 19: Yeah, I'm just curious.

2122
02:00:41,159 --> 02:00:43,680
Speaker 34: As to why you would open a room about debate

2123
02:00:43,840 --> 02:00:47,960
and then you never speak anything about the topic of

2124
02:00:48,239 --> 02:00:49,239
what the room is about.

2125
02:00:50,439 --> 02:00:52,720
Speaker 2: I mean, we've been speaking about that for four and

2126
02:00:52,760 --> 02:00:54,079
a half hours. What are you talking about?

2127
02:00:55,319 --> 02:00:57,680
Speaker 34: Okay, I've only been here for close to one hour,

2128
02:00:57,880 --> 02:01:01,119
but nothing's been said at all about what it is

2129
02:01:01,239 --> 02:01:03,680
that you believe. I've looked at your profile, I've looked

2130
02:01:03,720 --> 02:01:06,640
at your website. I've looked at a number of things

2131
02:01:06,680 --> 02:01:09,520
that you've posted. The last thirty posts you've made on

2132
02:01:09,640 --> 02:01:13,239
your profile. I have nothing to do with any type

2133
02:01:13,279 --> 02:01:16,680
of scripture. So, and one of the posts that you

2134
02:01:16,800 --> 02:01:20,119
had made, I think it's the twenty ninth post on

2135
02:01:20,239 --> 02:01:22,640
your profile. I was trying to count all the posts

2136
02:01:22,680 --> 02:01:25,199
that you'd made, but one of them said that you

2137
02:01:25,279 --> 02:01:28,920
are not Protestants, you are not Muslim, you're not atheists.

2138
02:01:29,000 --> 02:01:30,520
Speaker 2: So what are youthodox?

2139
02:01:31,239 --> 02:01:35,880
Speaker 19: Very clear, it doesn't seem very clear at all Orthodox?

2140
02:01:36,279 --> 02:01:36,760
Speaker 2: Orthodox?

2141
02:01:37,920 --> 02:01:38,399
Speaker 10: Orthodox?

2142
02:01:38,520 --> 02:01:39,279
Speaker 2: What Christian?

2143
02:01:43,960 --> 02:01:44,319
Speaker 10: Okay?

2144
02:01:44,439 --> 02:01:47,239
Speaker 19: You do realize that Christianity came from Judaism, right?

2145
02:01:48,119 --> 02:01:48,319
Speaker 2: Yes?

2146
02:01:49,920 --> 02:01:50,279
Speaker 9: Okay?

2147
02:01:50,439 --> 02:01:53,800
Speaker 19: Do you realize that Passover was not in a tournament offering?

2148
02:01:57,239 --> 02:01:59,479
Speaker 2: Okay? It's a meal? Sure?

2149
02:02:01,279 --> 02:02:01,600
Speaker 35: Okay?

2150
02:02:02,000 --> 02:02:04,000
Speaker 19: So when should Jesus have died?

2151
02:02:04,039 --> 02:02:08,000
Speaker 34: If, if, if at all, y'all had accepted sacrifice, when

2152
02:02:08,039 --> 02:02:10,199
should he have died if he was going to be

2153
02:02:10,279 --> 02:02:14,039
an acceptable offering, if y'all even accepted human offerings, which

2154
02:02:14,079 --> 02:02:18,640
he doesn't, can you tell me when he should have died?

2155
02:02:19,319 --> 02:02:19,359
Speaker 9: So?

2156
02:02:19,880 --> 02:02:19,920
Speaker 30: What?

2157
02:02:20,239 --> 02:02:22,520
Speaker 2: What is your group? You're what kind of a weird

2158
02:02:22,600 --> 02:02:23,439
Messianic cult?

2159
02:02:23,520 --> 02:02:23,920
Speaker 4: What are you in?

2160
02:02:25,600 --> 02:02:28,239
Speaker 19: No, I'm saying if you read the first.

2161
02:02:28,079 --> 02:02:30,239
Speaker 2: I want to know your position. You asked me my position?

2162
02:02:30,359 --> 02:02:32,079
I said it? So what group are you from?

2163
02:02:32,920 --> 02:02:33,920
Speaker 10: What group are you from?

2164
02:02:34,560 --> 02:02:35,479
Speaker 19: The First Commandment?

2165
02:02:35,640 --> 02:02:36,920
Speaker 2: What group are you from?

2166
02:02:38,880 --> 02:02:39,760
Speaker 19: I'm not a part of a.

2167
02:02:39,760 --> 02:02:41,800
Speaker 2: Group, but you're not a part of any group.

2168
02:02:42,039 --> 02:02:42,319
Speaker 9: What what?

2169
02:02:42,720 --> 02:02:46,920
Speaker 2: You have a bunch of hebrew Ish on your profile?

2170
02:02:47,039 --> 02:02:47,279
Speaker 9: Like that?

2171
02:02:47,439 --> 02:02:49,199
Speaker 2: Like that makes you better? So you're some sort of

2172
02:02:49,239 --> 02:02:50,279
weird Messianic cult.

2173
02:02:50,359 --> 02:02:52,560
Speaker 34: I think anything that you would like to know from

2174
02:02:52,680 --> 02:02:55,560
scripture based upon Hebrew or the Old Testament?

2175
02:02:55,760 --> 02:02:57,600
Speaker 9: I will definitely delineate it for you.

2176
02:02:57,720 --> 02:02:59,560
Speaker 1: So you're in a cult. Do you believe that you're

2177
02:02:59,560 --> 02:03:02,119
an MS area of the Most High or whatever? So

2178
02:03:02,520 --> 02:03:05,000
you're you're a judaizing heretics. So you don't you're not

2179
02:03:05,119 --> 02:03:06,720
in the church. You don't believe in Christianity.

2180
02:03:06,800 --> 02:03:08,359
Speaker 2: Right? Is Jesus divine?

2181
02:03:10,880 --> 02:03:11,560
Speaker 4: Absolutely not?

2182
02:03:12,079 --> 02:03:13,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, so you're a heretic exactly.

2183
02:03:14,199 --> 02:03:18,880
Speaker 34: So you're thinking that that y'all impregnated someone someone.

2184
02:03:18,640 --> 02:03:22,159
Speaker 1: Who you can't even talk, You can't even get your

2185
02:03:22,199 --> 02:03:24,560
words out. So do you accept the Bible or not?

2186
02:03:26,359 --> 02:03:29,279
Speaker 19: I accept what y'all had given to his people originally?

2187
02:03:29,439 --> 02:03:33,960
Speaker 2: You accept the New Testament? No, So are you a

2188
02:03:34,039 --> 02:03:34,880
Messianic or not?

2189
02:03:36,479 --> 02:03:38,439
Speaker 19: I'm trying to teach you the First Commandment?

2190
02:03:38,560 --> 02:03:41,520
Speaker 2: Right, So you're not going to answer. You're absolutely you're

2191
02:03:41,520 --> 02:03:43,720
a lunatic, So you're not going to answer my questions.

2192
02:03:43,840 --> 02:03:45,279
Moving on, Halo, what's up man?

2193
02:03:56,439 --> 02:03:56,840
Speaker 9: He? He?

2194
02:03:57,279 --> 02:03:57,319
Speaker 18: This?

2195
02:03:57,560 --> 02:03:57,600
Speaker 9: He?

2196
02:03:58,039 --> 02:04:00,079
Speaker 1: I think this is a person in total delusion and

2197
02:04:00,159 --> 02:04:03,319
who doesn't even believe anything. He's like his own made

2198
02:04:03,399 --> 02:04:05,680
up things. I don't even think he's a rabbinical Jew.

2199
02:04:05,760 --> 02:04:08,159
Speaker 2: He's just like some kind of made up he.

2200
02:04:08,520 --> 02:04:09,920
Speaker 1: I mean, they won't say he won't say what his

2201
02:04:10,000 --> 02:04:14,039
position is. So hello, i'm you look where people would disagree.

2202
02:04:14,560 --> 02:04:21,279
Please state your arguments. Don't dissimulate and not tell me

2203
02:04:21,359 --> 02:04:21,840
your position.

2204
02:04:22,000 --> 02:04:22,359
Speaker 2: What's up?

2205
02:04:23,760 --> 02:04:23,800
Speaker 30: No?

2206
02:04:24,079 --> 02:04:24,239
Speaker 4: Much?

2207
02:04:25,239 --> 02:04:27,640
Speaker 9: So you guys, I'll see you in here having the

2208
02:04:29,159 --> 02:04:32,399
illusion the conversation.

2209
02:04:33,680 --> 02:04:37,039
Speaker 2: I'll like to pay party. Okay, sure, what's what's your position?

2210
02:04:37,119 --> 02:04:38,159
I'm Orthodox Christian.

2211
02:04:41,159 --> 02:04:44,239
Speaker 36: I'm also Christian born again Christian?

2212
02:04:46,399 --> 02:04:49,920
Speaker 9: Orthodox? Was the difference more like Roman.

2213
02:04:51,560 --> 02:04:52,479
Speaker 4: Type Christian or what?

2214
02:04:53,600 --> 02:04:55,720
Speaker 1: No, we're not papists. We don't believe in the papacy,

2215
02:04:55,840 --> 02:05:00,279
but we do believe in real sacraments. We do believe

2216
02:05:00,319 --> 02:05:03,520
in the historic you know, church based on appslock succession.

2217
02:05:04,159 --> 02:05:09,439
We believe in tradition seven, eight, nine, ecumenical councils, et cetera,

2218
02:05:09,439 --> 02:05:09,840
et cetera.

2219
02:05:12,479 --> 02:05:15,680
Speaker 9: How do you get to become an Orthodox Christian?

2220
02:05:15,760 --> 02:05:18,720
Speaker 1: I guess well, I mean to become that is like

2221
02:05:18,840 --> 02:05:21,319
a process called becoming a catechumen So you go to

2222
02:05:21,319 --> 02:05:24,079
an Orthodox church, you attend it for one to three

2223
02:05:24,159 --> 02:05:28,039
years and then learn the faith and then decide.

2224
02:05:27,720 --> 02:05:28,960
Speaker 2: If you want to become Orthodox.

2225
02:05:29,840 --> 02:05:32,920
Speaker 36: So is this more of a a when you mentioned tradition,

2226
02:05:33,199 --> 02:05:35,640
so is this more of a religious type of thing?

2227
02:05:35,880 --> 02:05:43,239
Not more spiritual base, but more like by deeds, practices,

2228
02:05:43,680 --> 02:05:44,720
things you have to do to.

2229
02:05:46,439 --> 02:05:48,119
Speaker 9: Sounds more like Catholic.

2230
02:05:47,800 --> 02:05:52,720
Speaker 1: Right, probably to an evangelical. Yes, you would think that

2231
02:05:52,840 --> 02:05:55,560
we are quote Catholic, but we are not Roman Catholic.

2232
02:05:55,640 --> 02:05:58,479
But yes, we do believe in the necessity of good works,

2233
02:05:59,199 --> 02:06:01,199
so it's open look for people who disagree.

2234
02:06:01,279 --> 02:06:04,199
Speaker 2: What's up, James? Thank you for those questions.

2235
02:06:06,119 --> 02:06:08,880
Speaker 1: That's me who asked to debate one dollar. Thank you,

2236
02:06:09,079 --> 02:06:13,039
appreciate you, Thank you. What's up, James, I'm you.

2237
02:06:16,640 --> 02:06:19,119
Speaker 19: I just wanted to ask what your opinion of David

2238
02:06:19,199 --> 02:06:21,479
Bentley hart is theology.

2239
02:06:21,000 --> 02:06:22,119
Speaker 4: And works is.

2240
02:06:24,279 --> 02:06:27,079
Speaker 1: I think his first work is usually accepted as a

2241
02:06:27,079 --> 02:06:30,000
pretty good book, but he's pretty much become a perennialist

2242
02:06:30,680 --> 02:06:33,800
and so we don't really accept him anymore.

2243
02:06:37,960 --> 02:06:38,640
Speaker 2: Interesting, Thank you.

2244
02:06:38,840 --> 02:06:40,680
Speaker 4: I mean, how many of his works have you read?

2245
02:06:41,479 --> 02:06:43,760
Speaker 1: I read some of the first book, and then I

2246
02:06:43,840 --> 02:06:47,760
stopped reading him when he joined the Democratic Socialist of

2247
02:06:47,800 --> 02:06:59,840
America Party. By the way, we discussed him earlier tonight.

2248
02:07:00,000 --> 02:07:01,720
If you want to look at the critiques of.

2249
02:07:03,640 --> 02:07:13,239
Speaker 2: Universalism, Lord Mullin, well he's not just universalists.

2250
02:07:13,239 --> 02:07:16,319
Speaker 1: He actually has said on his blog that he's pretty

2251
02:07:16,399 --> 02:07:19,479
much a perennialist. So it's even worse. Go ahead, what's up, man,

2252
02:07:21,399 --> 02:07:22,319
you have a disagreement?

2253
02:07:23,279 --> 02:07:26,159
Speaker 9: Uh yeah, I have a question. So do you know

2254
02:07:26,560 --> 02:07:30,560
of the Roman Catholic guye Duong? He's like a a YouTuber.

2255
02:07:31,880 --> 02:07:33,319
Speaker 2: I know of him. I don't know him.

2256
02:07:34,359 --> 02:07:36,079
Speaker 9: Okay, he did a video.

2257
02:07:36,199 --> 02:07:41,840
Speaker 37: I'm just like curious of relations of opposition, and he

2258
02:07:42,039 --> 02:07:45,319
brought a quote of Saint Basil saying that this is

2259
02:07:45,359 --> 02:07:49,279
part of the quote within the identity of substance, the

2260
02:07:49,359 --> 02:07:53,159
properties are distinguished from one another by opposing themselves.

2261
02:07:54,119 --> 02:07:58,960
Speaker 1: That's not what is the tonistic relations of opposition doctrine

2262
02:07:59,000 --> 02:08:03,239
that has formulated. Admittedly, according to Kongar and Loski later

2263
02:08:03,359 --> 02:08:05,319
on the Middle Ages, it's not the same thing. Besils

2264
02:08:05,359 --> 02:08:08,920
not saying that the persons are distinguished by a relation

2265
02:08:09,000 --> 02:08:12,880
of opposition. He's saying that there are relations, but and

2266
02:08:13,000 --> 02:08:14,800
that you could say that the father is in a

2267
02:08:14,880 --> 02:08:17,600
sense of posed, but that is not a relative opposition

2268
02:08:17,760 --> 02:08:20,560
by which you try to distinguish a triad, because.

2269
02:08:20,359 --> 02:08:22,520
Speaker 2: It's a that would be only applied to a diad.

2270
02:08:22,760 --> 02:08:26,640
Does that make sense? I mean, I've actually addressed this

2271
02:08:26,800 --> 02:08:28,880
like ten times. I don't know why it keeps coming up.

2272
02:08:29,920 --> 02:08:31,680
Speaker 9: Okay, I didn't hear you address it?

2273
02:08:33,039 --> 02:08:33,239
Speaker 4: Is there?

2274
02:08:33,399 --> 02:08:35,319
Speaker 9: Like, is there a video I can go and look

2275
02:08:35,399 --> 02:08:36,520
to get a full Ye?

2276
02:08:37,680 --> 02:08:38,319
Speaker 24: Well what would that be?

2277
02:08:38,439 --> 02:08:45,319
Speaker 2: I'm pulling it up. So have you read the entire.

2278
02:08:46,840 --> 02:08:51,319
Speaker 1: The article that I've referenced multiple times on this from

2279
02:08:51,880 --> 02:08:53,079
not Loski and Congar.

2280
02:08:54,319 --> 02:08:55,560
Speaker 4: No, I've never heard this.

2281
02:08:57,039 --> 02:08:59,520
Speaker 9: I've never even seen this quote or heard this argument

2282
02:08:59,600 --> 02:09:00,439
from Efflis.

2283
02:09:02,239 --> 02:09:05,520
Speaker 1: So what they're doing is they're looking for terminology that

2284
02:09:05,680 --> 02:09:08,880
basil uses that they think is the medieval relations of

2285
02:09:08,920 --> 02:09:13,319
opposition doctrine. The only reason that relations of opposition comes

2286
02:09:13,439 --> 02:09:16,439
up as something that they want to try to use

2287
02:09:17,359 --> 02:09:22,279
is because of distinguishing in a absolutely simple essence. So

2288
02:09:22,760 --> 02:09:28,960
it's literally against the very premise of the Kappadocian triadological formulation,

2289
02:09:29,079 --> 02:09:32,039
which is based on the fathers the sole cause. So

2290
02:09:32,279 --> 02:09:35,880
when you don't have hyposthetic properties, then you need other

2291
02:09:36,079 --> 02:09:40,479
things as a way to distinguish persons. So what medieval

2292
02:09:40,520 --> 02:09:43,560
theologians came up with, and for example, here's the first

2293
02:09:43,640 --> 02:09:46,760
thing to read, which is a Roman Catholic scholar saying this.

2294
02:09:47,159 --> 02:09:50,640
This is Eves Congar, very famous Roman cathol theology and

2295
02:09:50,680 --> 02:09:55,479
it's called Augustine, the Trinity and the Filioque by Eavest Congar.

2296
02:09:56,000 --> 02:09:57,960
If you read this paper, he's going to tell you

2297
02:09:58,079 --> 02:10:02,920
that the develop of relations of opposition is a development

2298
02:10:02,960 --> 02:10:06,720
in the Middle Ages out of Augustinian presuppositions. Okay, so

2299
02:10:06,880 --> 02:10:10,800
that's from Congar, the famous Romemcalaity theologian, and he's going

2300
02:10:10,880 --> 02:10:14,159
to tell you that this isn't what the Kaba Dotionans mean.

2301
02:10:14,239 --> 02:10:18,800
They're not talking about the same thing. Then you're going

2302
02:10:18,880 --> 02:10:24,960
to want to read Laski's paper critiquing the medieval idea

2303
02:10:25,159 --> 02:10:29,159
called the procession of the Holy Spirit and Orthodox Trinitarian doctrine.

2304
02:10:29,319 --> 02:10:33,000
So when this came up, I brought both of these

2305
02:10:33,039 --> 02:10:36,000
things up to multiple Catholics involved in this argument.

2306
02:10:36,199 --> 02:10:38,159
Speaker 2: And they said, yeah, I we'll read that. They never

2307
02:10:38,239 --> 02:10:39,359
read it, which to.

2308
02:10:39,439 --> 02:10:42,000
Speaker 1: Me says that they're not actually interested in seeing what

2309
02:10:42,319 --> 02:10:46,039
the issues really are. What they wanted was quote mine

2310
02:10:46,199 --> 02:10:50,560
to make it look like Basil teaches the medieval Tomus

2311
02:10:50,680 --> 02:10:56,760
doctrine of relations of opposition, which is dumb. Literally, Congar

2312
02:10:56,840 --> 02:11:02,479
will tell you the capit oceans don't have the Augustinian idea.

2313
02:11:02,359 --> 02:11:07,000
Speaker 2: Of transparent theology, and that's why Constantinople one is not

2314
02:11:07,079 --> 02:11:10,279
Augustinian transarent theology. It accepts Cappadocian model stuff.

2315
02:11:10,439 --> 02:11:13,600
Speaker 1: So read these two articles because they will make clear

2316
02:11:13,800 --> 02:11:15,920
what I'm what I was arguing from the get go,

2317
02:11:16,880 --> 02:11:21,640
especially the Lasky paper where in the first four pages

2318
02:11:21,800 --> 02:11:24,720
he critiques the notion of relations of opposition.

2319
02:11:27,600 --> 02:11:30,159
Speaker 24: Okay, I'll uh, I'll.

2320
02:11:30,039 --> 02:11:30,640
Speaker 10: Read those through.

2321
02:11:31,079 --> 02:11:33,960
Speaker 37: I have one last question, what do you What did

2322
02:11:34,039 --> 02:11:37,920
you make of Father Josida Trenham going on a voice

2323
02:11:37,960 --> 02:11:39,479
of reason in that whole discussion.

2324
02:11:41,319 --> 02:11:48,359
Speaker 1: So I was curious to know if, uh, perhaps the

2325
02:11:48,439 --> 02:11:50,359
guy I don't remember his name, but he may have

2326
02:11:50,479 --> 02:11:55,319
presented himself as an Orthodox person or a cateculum or an.

2327
02:11:55,279 --> 02:12:00,279
Speaker 9: Inquirer reason huh voice of reason?

2328
02:12:00,399 --> 02:12:01,720
Speaker 2: No, No, the other guy, I I don't know that

2329
02:12:01,760 --> 02:12:04,319
guy's name, the roots of Orthodoxy.

2330
02:12:04,399 --> 02:12:08,479
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, like he might have said to Father Trunbacher

2331
02:12:08,520 --> 02:12:11,800
whatever his name is, and Father Josiah, hey, I'm Orthodoxy inquirer.

2332
02:12:11,840 --> 02:12:13,079
Speaker 2: Will you come to an interview. Now.

2333
02:12:15,159 --> 02:12:18,079
Speaker 1: I don't know how he presented himself to them, but

2334
02:12:18,960 --> 02:12:21,159
I will think I will say that it's odd that,

2335
02:12:22,279 --> 02:12:25,199
you know, I think Father Josiah had said some years

2336
02:12:25,279 --> 02:12:28,680
back that in the case of I think he meant me,

2337
02:12:28,800 --> 02:12:30,520
and he don't know if he named me, but he said,

2338
02:12:30,920 --> 02:12:33,079
you probably shouldn't be making content.

2339
02:12:32,800 --> 02:12:34,079
Speaker 2: If you're a new convert.

2340
02:12:34,199 --> 02:12:34,359
Speaker 9: You know.

2341
02:12:34,600 --> 02:12:37,640
Speaker 1: This is something he said around the time of my

2342
02:12:38,000 --> 02:12:40,600
coming into Orthodoxy twenty seventeen, twenty eighteen. A lot of

2343
02:12:40,640 --> 02:12:42,720
people thought he was talking about Maybe maybe he wasn't.

2344
02:12:42,760 --> 02:12:43,119
Speaker 2: I don't know.

2345
02:12:43,680 --> 02:12:47,359
Speaker 1: But my point is that it is interesting that in

2346
02:12:47,479 --> 02:12:51,039
my case he would say you're held to this high standard,

2347
02:12:51,680 --> 02:12:53,119
but he didn't seem.

2348
02:12:52,960 --> 02:12:56,319
Speaker 2: To care to check. In the case of Roots of Orthodoxy,

2349
02:12:59,399 --> 02:13:00,880
was the reason was.

2350
02:13:00,880 --> 02:13:03,399
Speaker 9: That interview like set up by Roots?

2351
02:13:05,159 --> 02:13:05,800
Speaker 2: I've heard.

2352
02:13:05,840 --> 02:13:07,560
Speaker 1: I don't know this is the case, but I've heard

2353
02:13:07,680 --> 02:13:11,880
that the Roots of Orthodoxy guy is the content person

2354
02:13:11,960 --> 02:13:13,840
that runs Voice of Reason stuff.

2355
02:13:15,039 --> 02:13:17,680
Speaker 2: Oh, I mean maybe that's not true.

2356
02:13:17,680 --> 02:13:18,039
Speaker 4: I don't know.

2357
02:13:19,119 --> 02:13:21,239
Speaker 9: Okay, well that was all.

2358
02:13:21,600 --> 02:13:26,239
Speaker 2: Thanks, but be sure and uh, please do read the

2359
02:13:26,279 --> 02:13:30,600
the Kungar paper. It's not that long, and then read and.

2360
02:13:30,640 --> 02:13:34,279
Speaker 1: Please do read the loss Key paper because I think

2361
02:13:34,319 --> 02:13:36,840
you'll see that you'll see what I'm saying, and that

2362
02:13:37,039 --> 02:13:40,199
the stuff that they're saying is really kind of ridiculous.

2363
02:13:40,319 --> 02:13:41,840
It would be things would go a lot better if

2364
02:13:41,840 --> 02:13:42,840
they would just look at this stuff.

2365
02:13:44,239 --> 02:13:45,479
Speaker 2: What's up? You keep thumbing down?

2366
02:13:45,520 --> 02:13:45,640
Speaker 9: Man?

2367
02:13:45,680 --> 02:14:13,079
Speaker 2: What's your problem? Go ahead? What's up?

2368
02:14:13,119 --> 02:14:13,319
Speaker 4: Hello?

2369
02:14:13,840 --> 02:14:19,319
Speaker 30: Yeah, yeah, I'm from I'm from Nigeria. I came across

2370
02:14:19,359 --> 02:14:24,039
your contents recently, like two two weeks ago. It was

2371
02:14:24,119 --> 02:14:26,239
through Andrew Wilson. Actually I watched one of his debates

2372
02:14:26,720 --> 02:14:28,640
shout out Rachel as well, I can see her hair.

2373
02:14:29,800 --> 02:14:33,359
So he was talking about how you're apparently good debate

2374
02:14:33,560 --> 02:14:37,640
for theological arguments and stuff. But I have a couple

2375
02:14:37,680 --> 02:14:41,000
of atheist friends, kind of atheists, kind of adious friends,

2376
02:14:41,000 --> 02:14:43,279
and you talked about how the transgender argument is one

2377
02:14:43,279 --> 02:14:46,920
of the best arguments for the existence of God. So

2378
02:14:47,640 --> 02:14:50,199
I watched a couple of your debates my dealer Auntie

2379
02:14:50,239 --> 02:14:54,279
and some other people about the arguments. But you also

2380
02:14:54,359 --> 02:14:56,600
mentioned something. You said that when it gets to the

2381
02:14:56,680 --> 02:15:01,800
pragmatic level, that arguments are inherently circular, like because you're

2382
02:15:02,039 --> 02:15:05,520
using God to justify the existence of God something like that. Right,

2383
02:15:06,039 --> 02:15:07,880
But then I started thinking about it, why can't and

2384
02:15:08,000 --> 02:15:10,800
it is just see because me I also, like I am,

2385
02:15:11,399 --> 02:15:14,079
I'm questioning my own beliefs, right, so I want to

2386
02:15:14,119 --> 02:15:17,319
really understand I like gets distinct fully fleshed out why can't.

2387
02:15:17,560 --> 02:15:20,960
And it is constantly just see that's logic or inductions,

2388
02:15:21,239 --> 02:15:23,840
saying that, like this thing, these things just exists, the

2389
02:15:23,880 --> 02:15:27,279
preconditions for the existence of knowledge, things like the self

2390
02:15:27,800 --> 02:15:30,039
causition teleology.

2391
02:15:31,720 --> 02:15:33,920
Speaker 2: To come to a debate and to say that they

2392
02:15:34,119 --> 02:15:37,840
just are doesn't do anything, and you can't do that

2393
02:15:37,920 --> 02:15:39,359
in the bay. But that's just as certain.

2394
02:15:40,039 --> 02:15:42,319
Speaker 30: But I get that, I get that, I get that,

2395
02:15:42,319 --> 02:15:44,399
but I'm saying that so if they can do that,

2396
02:15:44,479 --> 02:15:48,840
I can be an induction to see. Yeah, But the

2397
02:15:48,920 --> 02:15:51,000
thing is, it can be a justification for because I'm

2398
02:15:51,079 --> 02:15:53,720
using logic to justify the existence of logic, because induction

2399
02:15:53,880 --> 02:15:56,199
is a form of logic. I don't know if that's falicious,

2400
02:15:57,439 --> 02:15:59,520
because that's just what It's not a justification.

2401
02:16:03,640 --> 02:16:09,199
Speaker 1: Okay, So the fact that you're using logic to talk

2402
02:16:09,279 --> 02:16:12,680
about can you can you mute the background stuff like

2403
02:16:12,920 --> 02:16:14,640
I'm echoing, yeah, sure.

2404
02:16:14,680 --> 02:16:15,920
Speaker 2: That's that's going.

2405
02:16:20,000 --> 02:16:21,399
Speaker 10: Yes, true.

2406
02:16:21,560 --> 02:16:23,520
Speaker 30: I can't just use logic to just by the existence

2407
02:16:23,520 --> 02:16:25,279
of logic then, right.

2408
02:16:25,279 --> 02:16:28,680
Speaker 2: But it's unavoidable. So the fact that if you talk about,

2409
02:16:29,239 --> 02:16:31,479
how do we know that logic is logical? Right?

2410
02:16:31,600 --> 02:16:35,120
Speaker 1: We have to utilize logic to talk about logic, but

2411
02:16:35,440 --> 02:16:38,520
that doesn't justify logic. So it's a higher order question.

2412
02:16:38,719 --> 02:16:41,719
So you're raising the bar and you're saying, Okay, what's

2413
02:16:41,799 --> 02:16:47,319
the meta grounding that makes logic possible? So the fact

2414
02:16:47,319 --> 02:16:50,639
that you're using logic it's a category error, that doesn't

2415
02:16:50,639 --> 02:16:54,680
mean it's justifying its use. That's just unavoidable. So you

2416
02:16:54,799 --> 02:16:57,959
need something beyond its use to justify it in an

2417
02:16:57,959 --> 02:16:58,920
epistemic sense.

2418
02:16:58,959 --> 02:17:00,639
Speaker 2: How do we know that loge it works?

2419
02:17:01,040 --> 02:17:02,680
Speaker 1: The only way to do that is to appeal to

2420
02:17:02,840 --> 02:17:07,239
something that's bigger, larger, you're more universal. That grounds that,

2421
02:17:08,799 --> 02:17:09,280
hen Scott.

2422
02:17:09,440 --> 02:17:10,159
Speaker 9: But the thing is.

2423
02:17:10,879 --> 02:17:13,239
Speaker 30: Apists could just see what if I just go one

2424
02:17:13,280 --> 02:17:16,200
step for the tracks to find something that's transcendent though

2425
02:17:16,239 --> 02:17:16,559
too good?

2426
02:17:17,680 --> 02:17:18,719
Speaker 9: If that makes sense.

2427
02:17:19,319 --> 02:17:23,000
Speaker 1: Well by definition that that would be impossible. By definition,

2428
02:17:23,159 --> 02:17:25,959
God is the thing of which there's nothing greater, So

2429
02:17:26,239 --> 02:17:29,200
you can't find another transcend altar ground God.

2430
02:17:30,600 --> 02:17:33,760
Speaker 30: But themselves could just tell me that logic would be

2431
02:17:34,360 --> 02:17:37,479
the I guess you would see first or the for

2432
02:17:38,120 --> 02:17:40,719
like the justification for all that exists. They wouldn't have

2433
02:17:40,879 --> 02:17:43,680
to know the existence of good because.

2434
02:17:44,600 --> 02:17:46,520
Speaker 1: No, but it doesn't work to do that, Like you

2435
02:17:46,600 --> 02:17:49,879
can't just say it just is like just as what like,

2436
02:17:50,040 --> 02:17:51,399
that's not given an account for it.

2437
02:17:55,040 --> 02:17:57,159
Speaker 30: But he could also see that how do I knew

2438
02:17:57,159 --> 02:17:58,840
that good justice is because I would be picking, because

2439
02:17:59,120 --> 02:18:01,159
I'll be using good by the ext.

2440
02:18:01,120 --> 02:18:09,559
Speaker 2: That we're not arguing God just is. So again it's echoing. Man,

2441
02:18:09,639 --> 02:18:11,879
hold on, I can't deal with the echo.

2442
02:18:12,479 --> 02:18:15,840
Speaker 1: So the transital argument is not saying that all arguments

2443
02:18:15,879 --> 02:18:18,280
a circular so therefore God just is. What we're saying

2444
02:18:18,399 --> 02:18:21,399
is that everybody is at a certain point unavoidable in

2445
02:18:21,440 --> 02:18:24,600
their argumentation, and when you get to that paradigm level,

2446
02:18:24,920 --> 02:18:29,440
you're forced to do some kind of self recursive referencing.

2447
02:18:30,079 --> 02:18:33,440
So the question isn't who can be circular who can't?

2448
02:18:33,520 --> 02:18:38,840
The question is how do you avoid a contradiction within

2449
02:18:38,959 --> 02:18:42,840
the system that negates the system. That's the argument. So

2450
02:18:42,959 --> 02:18:45,520
you can't just say, well, I'm an atheist in logic,

2451
02:18:45,719 --> 02:18:49,399
just is right. And because we're not saying well, God

2452
02:18:49,600 --> 02:18:52,879
just is no, No, we're saying that God does the

2453
02:18:53,000 --> 02:18:56,079
grounding work in an epistemic sense, to ground the transcendal

2454
02:18:56,159 --> 02:18:57,920
categories which make knowledge possible.

2455
02:18:58,079 --> 02:19:00,479
Speaker 2: That's not the same thing as saying God just is.

2456
02:19:03,840 --> 02:19:05,760
I'm looking for people who disagree. So you guys are

2457
02:19:05,799 --> 02:19:07,520
raising your hand, please raise your hand.

2458
02:19:07,360 --> 02:19:10,399
Speaker 1: If you disagree. And I'm not trying to be rude

2459
02:19:10,399 --> 02:19:12,000
to that guy. If he can fix the echo in

2460
02:19:12,040 --> 02:19:13,399
the background noise, he can come back.

2461
02:19:13,440 --> 02:19:16,319
Speaker 2: It's just I can't hear every time I talk, I

2462
02:19:16,440 --> 02:19:23,639
hear myself that going, hey can you hear me?

2463
02:19:23,879 --> 02:19:25,760
Speaker 10: Huh hey.

2464
02:19:27,399 --> 02:19:32,440
Speaker 35: So I'm pretty new to your channel. I've I've been

2465
02:19:32,479 --> 02:19:38,600
on a journey out of Protestantism, and I don't I

2466
02:19:38,639 --> 02:19:40,920
don't like listening to a whole lot of people, like

2467
02:19:41,239 --> 02:19:43,040
I've already had to deal with a lot of confusion.

2468
02:19:44,040 --> 02:19:50,159
But I've spent I've probably spent like the past ten

2469
02:19:50,559 --> 02:19:54,959
sixteen hours on Sam's channel, and I was listening to

2470
02:19:55,200 --> 02:20:01,719
the responses of the Oriental Orthodox to emphasis and Calcedone,

2471
02:20:02,040 --> 02:20:06,040
and I haven't I haven't found like a good source

2472
02:20:06,360 --> 02:20:08,600
for the Eastern Orthodox position. And I didn't want to

2473
02:20:08,680 --> 02:20:10,159
Just like I said, I didn't want to just listen

2474
02:20:10,200 --> 02:20:10,760
to anybody.

2475
02:20:12,399 --> 02:20:15,399
Speaker 2: I mean, we're currently going through an entire, multiple part

2476
02:20:15,520 --> 02:20:17,319
lecture series on my channel.

2477
02:20:18,200 --> 02:20:20,559
Speaker 10: Okay, is it what's it called?

2478
02:20:20,719 --> 02:20:24,680
Speaker 1: Refuting each Oriental Orthodoxy. We've done two parts in about

2479
02:20:24,760 --> 02:20:26,719
six hours of talk and it's going to be about

2480
02:20:26,760 --> 02:20:29,760
twenty hours, so go watch the first two and be

2481
02:20:29,840 --> 02:20:31,920
on the lookout for that. Nikki D what's up.

2482
02:20:31,840 --> 02:20:52,159
Speaker 10: Man, I guess smile on huh okay, cool.

2483
02:20:52,639 --> 02:20:54,479
Speaker 16: Yeah, I think we might be a little more productive

2484
02:20:54,520 --> 02:20:58,000
if we focus on civics and political science and maybe

2485
02:20:58,120 --> 02:21:01,559
culture if need be. I'd like to advocate for our

2486
02:21:01,760 --> 02:21:05,440
constitutional republic at the Constitution of the United States of America.

2487
02:21:08,520 --> 02:21:11,600
Speaker 2: Okay, I mean that's not really in the topics of debate, so.

2488
02:21:13,040 --> 02:21:17,959
Speaker 16: Wow, libertarian is So I figured its civics and political

2489
02:21:18,000 --> 02:21:20,239
science around the table, and I've heard you advocate for

2490
02:21:20,319 --> 02:21:22,760
a theocratic monarchy, So I don't know if you're really

2491
02:21:22,799 --> 02:21:23,520
in favor of that.

2492
02:21:23,639 --> 02:21:26,879
Speaker 1: Or if ultimately I don't think we're going to actually

2493
02:21:26,959 --> 02:21:29,920
see that, but I think it's the better form of government.

2494
02:21:31,760 --> 02:21:34,280
Speaker 16: Well, I think we just need to restore integrity of

2495
02:21:34,360 --> 02:21:37,479
public servants. I mean, the Securities and Exchange Commission and

2496
02:21:37,520 --> 02:21:40,280
the Federal Trade Commission haven't been doing their job for

2497
02:21:40,399 --> 02:21:45,120
at least decades, and the Federal Reserve Bank hijacked our

2498
02:21:45,239 --> 02:21:46,559
nation in nineteen thirteen.

2499
02:21:46,920 --> 02:21:48,479
Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree with that, but how does that tell

2500
02:21:48,479 --> 02:21:49,399
you what integrity is?

2501
02:21:51,239 --> 02:21:55,200
Speaker 16: Well, integrity is when I'm referring to the public servants

2502
02:21:55,639 --> 02:21:59,680
right now. They're a bunch of insider trading, regulatory captured,

2503
02:21:59,719 --> 02:22:04,879
black mail, extored it and bribed, compromise, financial conflicts of interest,

2504
02:22:04,959 --> 02:22:05,959
in foreign influence.

2505
02:22:06,200 --> 02:22:08,280
Speaker 2: Yeah. I agree with all that, well aware, but that's

2506
02:22:08,319 --> 02:22:10,479
not really the topics of debate today. But thank you man.

2507
02:22:11,280 --> 02:22:16,159
Speaker 1: So the topics are listed as Catholicism, atheism, Muslims, libertarianism

2508
02:22:16,280 --> 02:22:21,200
in terms of the philosophy, and protestansm So, if you disagree,

2509
02:22:21,319 --> 02:22:23,440
raise your hand. So we're taking people who disagree.

2510
02:22:25,200 --> 02:22:26,399
Speaker 2: I don't we Are we done?

2511
02:22:26,440 --> 02:22:30,239
Speaker 1: Are we down to the no more disagrees? Thaie soccer

2512
02:22:40,719 --> 02:22:43,239
ed Flores twenty bucks. Thank you so much, Ed, appreciate that.

2513
02:22:43,440 --> 02:23:22,280
Welcome Jesse, he can't connect. Jordan's right, Hello.

2514
02:23:27,479 --> 02:23:30,239
Speaker 4: Hello, what's up? All right?

2515
02:23:30,280 --> 02:23:32,959
Speaker 38: Yah yah, mister Jay, thank god. I've been on a

2516
02:23:33,000 --> 02:23:34,479
stay for a lot for a little minute, but thank

2517
02:23:34,520 --> 02:23:39,000
you Christ Okay, So we talked a little bit last week,

2518
02:23:39,239 --> 02:23:42,000
I think on your stream, Thank you very much. And

2519
02:23:42,159 --> 02:23:45,479
so Mike so I'm still the Protestant, but we talked.

2520
02:23:45,719 --> 02:23:48,239
And I also I watched your video on John six

2521
02:23:48,920 --> 02:23:52,799
and the the flash like a two hour video on

2522
02:23:52,879 --> 02:23:56,319
the Eucharist, and because I just wanted to understand, and

2523
02:23:56,360 --> 02:23:58,440
then I read John six for myself and I just

2524
02:23:58,600 --> 02:24:00,920
wasn't I just I wasn't getting like I wasn't convinced.

2525
02:24:01,000 --> 02:24:03,959
Speaker 4: And then you but you kept talking about serial the

2526
02:24:04,120 --> 02:24:04,600
thorough guy.

2527
02:24:04,879 --> 02:24:07,239
Speaker 38: I don't know if it was of Jerusalem Alexandria, so

2528
02:24:07,319 --> 02:24:10,079
I just assumed it was of Alexandria. I listened to

2529
02:24:10,200 --> 02:24:13,840
his commentary on John six and I was like, Okay,

2530
02:24:13,879 --> 02:24:16,840
now I'm convinced of the Eucharist, but this is that.

2531
02:24:17,200 --> 02:24:19,959
Now I'm convinced of it, but the issues that I

2532
02:24:20,079 --> 02:24:23,360
have is and like this is the basically is the.

2533
02:24:23,360 --> 02:24:24,159
Speaker 2: Issue that I have, so.

2534
02:24:26,879 --> 02:24:30,479
Speaker 38: That I can relate a lot more to Catholicism because

2535
02:24:31,000 --> 02:24:33,920
like they will define things right, but when like I

2536
02:24:34,000 --> 02:24:37,479
look at the Lucim position on the Eucharist and the

2537
02:24:37,639 --> 02:24:41,479
Orthodox position, the only difference from what I'm looking searching

2538
02:24:41,879 --> 02:24:44,360
is that they just used like orthodox will state is

2539
02:24:44,760 --> 02:24:48,159
versus the loosener state under and so I'm confused. I'm like, well,

2540
02:24:48,159 --> 02:24:49,079
I don't think I know is that.

2541
02:24:49,159 --> 02:24:54,319
Speaker 1: Like now we believe in a real priestly based transformation

2542
02:24:54,920 --> 02:24:59,000
into body, blood, soul, and uncreated energy or divinity.

2543
02:24:59,360 --> 02:25:00,719
Speaker 2: That's not the Lutheran position.

2544
02:25:01,680 --> 02:25:04,600
Speaker 38: Okay, so my question is, in what would you still

2545
02:25:05,000 --> 02:25:07,239
is the all top position? Then it's still bread because

2546
02:25:07,760 --> 02:25:09,479
it past like bed. It looks like bed.

2547
02:25:09,920 --> 02:25:14,399
Speaker 1: I'm like it, or and and then and whin I mean,

2548
02:25:14,440 --> 02:25:18,639
we don't typically have the Roman, Catholic, Tomistic medieval idea

2549
02:25:18,799 --> 02:25:21,319
that you know, it has the essence.

2550
02:25:21,079 --> 02:25:23,600
Speaker 2: Of God or whatever, but it's or ascuse me that

2551
02:25:23,680 --> 02:25:23,920
it's the.

2552
02:25:25,479 --> 02:25:28,680
Speaker 1: Body of blood of Christ, but it's the accidents of

2553
02:25:28,799 --> 02:25:30,799
bread and wine, like I mean, we don't really go

2554
02:25:30,920 --> 02:25:33,479
into that because we do affirm it to be a mystery.

2555
02:25:35,159 --> 02:25:38,159
Speaker 2: But I don't I'm not aware of like whether.

2556
02:25:38,040 --> 02:25:42,040
Speaker 1: The church fathers explicitly state to what degree there's still

2557
02:25:42,120 --> 02:25:44,600
bread or not, because most of the time they just

2558
02:25:44,680 --> 02:25:48,360
state that it's changed into body, blood, soul, and divinity.

2559
02:25:49,600 --> 02:25:52,000
The divinity there is the uncreated energy. So you have

2560
02:25:52,079 --> 02:25:54,239
to understand that the only way to have this consistent

2561
02:25:54,319 --> 02:25:57,360
position of it really being the deified flesh is to

2562
02:25:57,440 --> 02:25:59,879
have the energy's doctrine, and only the Orthodox Church has.

2563
02:25:59,879 --> 02:26:05,000
The Lutherans, they've been all over the place with consentantiality,

2564
02:26:05,120 --> 02:26:08,840
and Luther himself argued that Jesus flesh became omnipresent and

2565
02:26:08,920 --> 02:26:12,399
that's how it's there, which is silly. That's actually a

2566
02:26:15,000 --> 02:26:18,040
that would be more of like a Monophysite type of position.

2567
02:26:18,280 --> 02:26:21,879
So I think if you, if you dig into it more,

2568
02:26:21,920 --> 02:26:24,280
you'll notice that really the only the Orthodox position is

2569
02:26:24,360 --> 02:26:26,600
consistent on that, and it really does tie into the

2570
02:26:26,719 --> 02:26:29,520
essence energy doctrine. Not trying to be rude, but like

2571
02:26:29,639 --> 02:26:31,680
my mind is turning the mush. So I'll give tie

2572
02:26:31,719 --> 02:26:32,600
one last time.

2573
02:26:33,120 --> 02:26:36,040
Speaker 2: And Jordan be sure to come back next time. I apologize.

2574
02:26:36,200 --> 02:26:37,920
I'll try to go to you quicker, go ahead, man,

2575
02:26:38,079 --> 02:26:38,600
last chance.

2576
02:26:39,040 --> 02:26:41,120
Speaker 4: I'm you Hey, can you hear me?

2577
02:26:41,280 --> 02:26:41,479
Speaker 2: Yep?

2578
02:26:42,719 --> 02:26:42,920
Speaker 9: Yeah.

2579
02:26:43,120 --> 02:26:48,120
Speaker 39: So I have one question maybe to have you read

2580
02:26:48,159 --> 02:26:51,639
the book Did Jesus Pray for Those Living in the World? No,

2581
02:26:53,799 --> 02:26:59,840
So basically it's a book about Orthodox spirituality by Elder

2582
02:27:00,120 --> 02:27:04,799
from Spiritual Spiritual Child, I guess.

2583
02:27:05,440 --> 02:27:09,280
Speaker 4: And one thing I don't understand is that he talks about.

2584
02:27:11,959 --> 02:27:15,559
Speaker 19: Ignoring, you know, visions during prayer, even.

2585
02:27:15,399 --> 02:27:16,280
Speaker 9: The most Selvafic.

2586
02:27:16,440 --> 02:27:19,639
Speaker 39: That's one thing he says specifically, but also the angle

2587
02:27:19,799 --> 02:27:23,360
of Orthodox spirituality is actually like having a vision of

2588
02:27:23,479 --> 02:27:26,879
the uncreated light, so you're kind of doing both at

2589
02:27:26,920 --> 02:27:29,280
the same time, ignoring visions but expecting a vision I

2590
02:27:29,319 --> 02:27:30,000
don't understand.

2591
02:27:31,000 --> 02:27:33,120
Speaker 1: Well, the vision of the uncreated light is only going

2592
02:27:33,200 --> 02:27:37,479
to happen at a most likely a very advanced stage

2593
02:27:37,600 --> 02:27:40,600
of a person's spiritual life. And that also comes with

2594
02:27:40,799 --> 02:27:44,479
the presupposition that you are under a spiritual father. So

2595
02:27:44,799 --> 02:27:46,959
one reason in the Orthodox Church that there's a stress

2596
02:27:47,000 --> 02:27:49,680
on having a spiritual father is precisely because he's going

2597
02:27:49,760 --> 02:27:51,799
to be there to help guide you in that process

2598
02:27:52,360 --> 02:27:54,319
so that you don't fall into the delusions like we

2599
02:27:54,440 --> 02:27:58,920
saw earlier with Taylor Marshall thinking in his pre last

2600
02:27:59,040 --> 02:28:01,479
that Mary's appear to him, and with the engorged Milkers,

2601
02:28:01,840 --> 02:28:04,040
that's precisely the kind of thing that the spiritual Father

2602
02:28:04,079 --> 02:28:06,959
would be like, that's not God speaking to you, So

2603
02:28:07,600 --> 02:28:11,079
he would be there to say, you know this, you know,

2604
02:28:11,719 --> 02:28:13,920
you were praying and you felt like, you know, God

2605
02:28:14,120 --> 02:28:16,120
was telling you, you know, in your mind, to go

2606
02:28:16,280 --> 02:28:19,479
do something that's probably not God. But he would also

2607
02:28:19,799 --> 02:28:21,879
you know, be there hopefully for the long term too.

2608
02:28:22,159 --> 02:28:24,399
You know, if in several years you felt like you

2609
02:28:24,479 --> 02:28:27,559
were having real spiritual experiences, he could help guide you

2610
02:28:27,639 --> 02:28:28,399
through that process.

2611
02:28:28,520 --> 02:28:29,719
Speaker 2: So there are real.

2612
02:28:29,600 --> 02:28:33,000
Speaker 1: Spiritual experiences, but because humans are so susceptible to delusion

2613
02:28:33,120 --> 02:28:35,879
or pre last, it's always under the guide of a

2614
02:28:35,959 --> 02:28:37,159
more advanced type of person.

2615
02:28:38,319 --> 02:28:39,959
Speaker 4: Goh, sure, all right, that's it.

2616
02:28:40,159 --> 02:28:44,079
Speaker 2: Thank you, Yeah, thank you. I thought you disagreed. Dude,

2617
02:28:44,479 --> 02:28:46,280
you were raising your hand like you disagree. Does anyone

2618
02:28:46,319 --> 02:28:48,840
else disagree? The last chance you got to disagree? Though,

2619
02:28:49,040 --> 02:28:52,520
if you don't disagree, and you're just asking me catechuymic questions,

2620
02:28:52,559 --> 02:28:55,399
which I'm not mad at you. I'm just I'm gonna

2621
02:28:55,639 --> 02:28:59,239
I'm gonna pass out, hippo. Are you disagreeing?

2622
02:29:06,520 --> 02:29:11,799
Speaker 9: Mhm, Hello, hey, HODI.

2623
02:29:13,319 --> 02:29:15,959
Speaker 4: So this is more of a question.

2624
02:29:16,639 --> 02:29:18,959
Speaker 2: I guess disagree.

2625
02:29:20,479 --> 02:29:22,000
Speaker 23: I mean, I'm LDS.

2626
02:29:22,120 --> 02:29:22,920
Speaker 9: So let's start there.

2627
02:29:27,920 --> 02:29:31,959
Speaker 4: My question is, and I've tried to have other people.

2628
02:29:31,760 --> 02:29:33,840
Speaker 23: Explain it to me, but I just felt they weren't

2629
02:29:33,920 --> 02:29:36,079
like in a position to be like a teacher of

2630
02:29:36,159 --> 02:29:43,000
this subject. Okay, I'm very sympathetic to a lot of

2631
02:29:43,120 --> 02:29:47,120
what the Orthodox Church uh said and what's in their doctrine,

2632
02:29:47,319 --> 02:29:51,120
Like they believe in theosis similarly to the LDS Church.

2633
02:29:52,440 --> 02:29:55,840
Speaker 2: I wouldn't say that it's similar, but okay, go ahead.

2634
02:29:59,040 --> 02:30:02,440
Speaker 23: But the ones thing that has always got me and

2635
02:30:02,559 --> 02:30:07,399
why I have not been able to bring myself to

2636
02:30:07,920 --> 02:30:13,200
go to an other sect of Christianity is that I

2637
02:30:13,559 --> 02:30:19,159
cannot wrap my head around the trinity or why Jesus

2638
02:30:19,280 --> 02:30:27,520
Christ would speak in the New Testament to his father specifically,

2639
02:30:27,760 --> 02:30:31,479
if he is both a father and the son simultaneously.

2640
02:30:31,479 --> 02:30:33,639
Speaker 2: Well, he's not the Father. That's the whole point of

2641
02:30:33,639 --> 02:30:37,840
the trinity. Trinity is three really distinct and different hypostases.

2642
02:30:39,479 --> 02:30:43,639
So who believes that he is the Father? That's that's modalism,

2643
02:30:43,760 --> 02:30:44,600
That's not the Trinity.

2644
02:30:46,479 --> 02:30:50,200
Speaker 23: I guess from what I've understood of how the Trinity

2645
02:30:50,239 --> 02:30:52,440
has been explained to me is that they are.

2646
02:30:53,879 --> 02:30:55,680
Speaker 4: Three separate entities.

2647
02:30:55,319 --> 02:30:56,159
Speaker 23: But one God.

2648
02:30:56,760 --> 02:30:59,879
Speaker 1: No, the three persons are not separate, in fact, that

2649
02:31:00,239 --> 02:31:02,959
dwell one another perfectly in a perfect unity. So I

2650
02:31:03,000 --> 02:31:05,600
would say the first thing to watch is the video

2651
02:31:05,760 --> 02:31:07,600
that we recommended earlier tonight.

2652
02:31:07,399 --> 02:31:10,520
Speaker 2: That I did. It's called is Jesus God and is

2653
02:31:10,600 --> 02:31:11,399
God a Trinity?

2654
02:31:11,600 --> 02:31:13,920
Speaker 1: And I did this video about six years ago. It's

2655
02:31:14,000 --> 02:31:19,159
right here that will walk through about three hours of passages.

2656
02:31:18,719 --> 02:31:19,559
Speaker 2: In the Old Testament.

2657
02:31:20,280 --> 02:31:24,879
Speaker 1: And then I did a more specific focused video called

2658
02:31:25,120 --> 02:31:27,959
the Trinity in the Old Testament. And so I think

2659
02:31:28,000 --> 02:31:30,520
when you start to see this throughout the Old Testament,

2660
02:31:30,639 --> 02:31:33,319
you'll notice very clearly that, Okay, this is definitely the

2661
02:31:33,399 --> 02:31:34,600
teaching of the Old Testament.

2662
02:31:35,079 --> 02:31:35,920
Speaker 2: And then I did an.

2663
02:31:36,000 --> 02:31:38,280
Speaker 1: Entire lecture through all of the Gospel of John, which

2664
02:31:38,280 --> 02:31:39,799
you can also find on my channel. And what we

2665
02:31:39,920 --> 02:31:42,399
noticed in the Gospel John lectures was that every chapter

2666
02:31:42,440 --> 02:31:46,600
of the Gospel of John literally has a reference to

2667
02:31:46,680 --> 02:31:49,159
the deed of Christ and or the Trinity. So the

2668
02:31:49,360 --> 02:31:52,959
entire Gospel of John also harmonizes perfectly with all of

2669
02:31:53,040 --> 02:31:55,799
these Old Testament passages. So I'm not trying to just

2670
02:31:55,920 --> 02:31:58,639
pass it all pass you off, but like literally those

2671
02:31:58,920 --> 02:32:03,760
things will definitely I think, make this point clear, and

2672
02:32:04,000 --> 02:32:05,799
no modalism is different from the Trinity.

2673
02:32:06,639 --> 02:32:08,360
Speaker 2: I don't have any more energy. I'm starting to slur

2674
02:32:08,479 --> 02:32:10,879
my words. I'm super tired. Made by Jim Bob with

2675
02:32:10,959 --> 02:32:13,760
a big fat super Chat fifty bucks. Wow, thank you

2676
02:32:13,799 --> 02:32:14,559
so much, Jimbob.

2677
02:32:15,600 --> 02:32:19,239
Speaker 1: Guys, be sure if you're not subscribed. Jimbob is over there,

2678
02:32:20,239 --> 02:32:23,639
really powering through debating the atheists.

2679
02:32:23,719 --> 02:32:28,360
Speaker 2: He's like, just you thought I had fortitude over here

2680
02:32:28,559 --> 02:32:29,120
with this No.

2681
02:32:29,200 --> 02:32:29,239
Speaker 15: No.

2682
02:32:29,440 --> 02:32:32,959
Speaker 1: Eight, Jimbob is like got five times of fortitude. I

2683
02:32:33,079 --> 02:32:36,120
do to deal with the atheists for four to five

2684
02:32:36,959 --> 02:32:42,280
four three hours time, So be sure and check out Jimbob.

2685
02:32:42,879 --> 02:32:45,360
Do you disagree, Alex, I'll go to you if you disagree,

2686
02:32:46,200 --> 02:32:51,440
but please no FAQ questions. Only people that disagree. We've

2687
02:32:51,479 --> 02:32:53,799
had a lot of fun tonight. We're going to Libertarian

2688
02:32:53,840 --> 02:32:56,520
Fantasy Island. We're gonna put things in our butt. As

2689
02:32:56,680 --> 02:33:01,799
Rachel said, literally, I'm joking. You have to disagree, dude,

2690
02:33:02,879 --> 02:33:03,879
or else I'm just leaving.

2691
02:33:07,239 --> 02:33:07,399
Speaker 18: Yo.

2692
02:33:07,520 --> 02:33:11,879
Speaker 7: I disagree, and it's I'm rate to in the way

2693
02:33:11,959 --> 02:33:13,000
you say, espresso.

2694
02:33:14,079 --> 02:33:16,719
Speaker 2: I knew it was gonna be a fake disagree or

2695
02:33:16,840 --> 02:33:19,000
I knew it. I knew it.

2696
02:33:21,399 --> 02:33:25,280
Speaker 1: I'm going immediately to Libertarian Island, and I'm not passing go.

2697
02:33:25,479 --> 02:33:28,159
I'm not stopping to collect two hundred dollars. Oh no,

2698
02:33:28,280 --> 02:33:32,200
I am passing go Right, nobody disagrees.

2699
02:33:32,760 --> 02:33:35,520
Speaker 2: I'm done. I don't have no more energy. But hey,

2700
02:33:35,719 --> 02:33:36,920
be sure and follow Jim Bob.

2701
02:33:37,799 --> 02:33:41,360
Speaker 1: He's throwing out fat money super chats, he's throwing out

2702
02:33:41,399 --> 02:33:44,239
that getty Green, he's throwing out that chetta.

2703
02:33:45,120 --> 02:33:47,319
Speaker 2: Head on over there to Jim Bob channel and be

2704
02:33:47,399 --> 02:33:51,760
sure and follow and support our buddy Jim