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<v Speaker 1>All right, Billy Cunningham, the Great America, and let's continue

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<v Speaker 1>with more than about an hour or so. Peter Bronson

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<v Speaker 1>will be here. Spoke out about the Northwest territories and more.

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<v Speaker 1>I told the Trumpster about eight months ago that I

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<v Speaker 1>will take care of the Northwest territories. I'll be the

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<v Speaker 1>right wing on the Northwest territories. Also joining us later

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<v Speaker 1>will be Joe Dieters, who's Deaters unplugged. In fact, Peter

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<v Speaker 1>Bronson's writing a book with Joe Dieters about prosecutous office.

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<v Speaker 1>That kind of stuff.

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<v Speaker 2>Interesting.

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<v Speaker 1>But until then, of course, I just heard the news

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<v Speaker 1>talk about city council wants to have a sixty day

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<v Speaker 1>waiting period. They want to study the issue for sixty

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<v Speaker 1>days about homelessness and what they can do, what they

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<v Speaker 1>can't do, as if it's a brand new toy they

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<v Speaker 1>can't discover on Christmas morning how to operate it. But

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<v Speaker 1>a man that has all the answers is Kurt Hartman, attorney,

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<v Speaker 1>former judge, works with Chris Finney and so much more.

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<v Speaker 1>And Kurt Hartman, welcome again to the Bill. Cunningham showed

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<v Speaker 1>and Kurt, first of all, when you see and hear

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<v Speaker 1>things from City Council that they are going to study

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<v Speaker 1>this problem for the next two months, come up with solutions.

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<v Speaker 2>What do we do? How do we do it?

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<v Speaker 1>The four seventy one Big Mac Bridge is burned, according

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<v Speaker 1>to Dan Hills, because of homelessness. And so does city

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<v Speaker 1>council need another two months to study the issue or

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<v Speaker 1>is there a court order ready to demand them to

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<v Speaker 1>take action?

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<v Speaker 3>Uh?

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<v Speaker 2>Does the city council need in another two months? Bill?

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<v Speaker 2>Absolutely not.

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<v Speaker 3>You know, it's not like this, it's some problem that

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<v Speaker 3>just suddenly arose. I mean, this is has been plaguing

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<v Speaker 3>the city of Cincinnati. Uh, and do a part part

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<v Speaker 3>to the lack of leadership coming from the Mayor's office

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<v Speaker 3>and City council.

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<v Speaker 2>So it's nothing new. They've known about it.

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<v Speaker 3>This is just Hey, we're just going to do the

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<v Speaker 3>status quo and just let things go and keep going

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<v Speaker 3>down the path, Uh to become the San Francisco of

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<v Speaker 3>the Midwest, if you will.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm holding this order wed we spoke off the air

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<v Speaker 1>to say this is not a new problem. What would

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<v Speaker 1>be accurate because I'm holding an order signed by Hamley

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<v Speaker 1>County Common Police or Judge Robert Ruhlman about six and

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<v Speaker 1>a half years ago, entered August is sixteenth, twenty eighteen,

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<v Speaker 1>requiring the city to do all kinds of stuff. Is

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<v Speaker 1>this judgment entry still in effect and the permanent injunction?

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<v Speaker 2>Is it still in an effect? It absolutely is an effect.

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<v Speaker 3>If you look on the probably the second to last page,

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<v Speaker 3>it clearly says this order shall be permanent and enforced

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<v Speaker 3>by Cincinnati Police, et cetera.

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<v Speaker 2>So it is a permanent order.

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<v Speaker 3>It's in place, and the city has elected, i think,

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<v Speaker 3>under this mayor to essentially ignore it, basically snub their

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<v Speaker 3>nose at a state court order.

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<v Speaker 2>That is a final judgment.

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<v Speaker 3>It is an order that the city of Cincinnati actually

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<v Speaker 3>agreed to. So it wasn't like we went it went

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<v Speaker 3>to a trial and the judge kind of weighed the

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<v Speaker 3>facts and the evidence.

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<v Speaker 2>The city agreed to this.

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<v Speaker 1>Why isn't it But why isn't it being impol We normally,

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<v Speaker 1>when you order to do something and it's a permanent

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<v Speaker 1>injunction and you ignore the order, bad things happen.

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<v Speaker 2>So why is that not happening now? A good, excellent question,

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<v Speaker 2>Uh don't have to answer. But you know, looking to.

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<v Speaker 3>With with Pierce City, we're assessing probably maybe trying to

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<v Speaker 3>get someone, a citizen here in Hamilton County to come

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<v Speaker 3>in and say hey, because this is a this case

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<v Speaker 3>was brought in the name of the State of Ohio.

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<v Speaker 3>Wasn't an individual, it was the State of Ohio saying,

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<v Speaker 3>you know, fell any drug use, et cetera is occurring

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<v Speaker 3>on these encampments. And if you remember back in twenty eighteen,

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<v Speaker 3>you know that's when we when we had these plethora

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<v Speaker 3>of homelessness camps, you know, on Third Street, people trying

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<v Speaker 3>to go to you know, Bengals games or whatnot, or

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<v Speaker 3>Reds games, you know, having to go through this stuff.

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<v Speaker 3>It was San Francisco, the Midwest, and you know, Joe Deeters,

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<v Speaker 3>who at the time was county prosecutor, had the authority

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<v Speaker 3>under state law to basically abate.

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<v Speaker 2>What's called this nuisance at the nuisance what was going on.

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<v Speaker 3>And Judge Rowman agreed, the city agreed, all three agreed. Well,

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<v Speaker 3>and so you know, we want to see about going

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<v Speaker 3>back into court, have some citizens say hey, we need

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<v Speaker 3>to get this enforced and go to and address it

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<v Speaker 3>with Judge Roman's successor, who at this time would be

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<v Speaker 3>Judge pat Think a locker.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, you're a lawyer.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm a lawyer.

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<v Speaker 1>Of course, Finny knows what he's doing. I talked to

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<v Speaker 1>Attorney General David Yosh yesterday. He's willing to intervene, but

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<v Speaker 1>someone must ask him to do it. And then the

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<v Speaker 1>age asked the great American, who has standing to bring this?

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<v Speaker 1>And I said, well, Prosecutor's office could. How they're a

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<v Speaker 1>party in the city of Cincinnati. Now, the City Cincinnati

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<v Speaker 1>is not going to request contempt of the City of Cincinnati,

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<v Speaker 1>so it's up to the Prosecutor's office. And when I

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<v Speaker 1>make inroads there, they tell me, well, you know it'll

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<v Speaker 1>be a Connie Pillage problem in about two weeks. Explain

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<v Speaker 1>how a private citizen, someone living in and around Stanbury's

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<v Speaker 1>Park and Mount Washington. How could a private citizen arise

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<v Speaker 1>even there if they're not a party to this law

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<v Speaker 1>suit and force the city to do what they said

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<v Speaker 1>they would do, which is clean out homeless camps as

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<v Speaker 1>soon as they developed they must be cleaning immediately. Why

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<v Speaker 1>how could a citizen jump into this lawsuit and say

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<v Speaker 1>I'll charge the city with contempt?

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<v Speaker 2>Right, It's simple.

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<v Speaker 3>The state law that existed that Joe Deeterers brought this

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<v Speaker 3>action on doesn't limit it to the prosecutor bringing such

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<v Speaker 3>an action. This state law specifically says any person who

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<v Speaker 3>is a citizen of the county in which the nuisance exists.

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<v Speaker 2>May bring the action.

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<v Speaker 3>So the state law actually gives any person in Hamilton

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<v Speaker 3>County the authority, you know, to bring.

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<v Speaker 2>The similar lawsuit.

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<v Speaker 3>Or what we're assessing is, since we have a final

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<v Speaker 3>judgment already on the boats signed by the judge, can

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<v Speaker 3>that person come in and say, I would have the

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<v Speaker 3>right initially to bring this suit.

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<v Speaker 2>I want to join in and enforce this order that

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<v Speaker 2>the city agreed to.

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<v Speaker 1>Why haven't you done it already? Kurt Hartman? You and

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<v Speaker 1>how come you guys? You infinitean? Why haven't you done

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<v Speaker 1>it already?

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<v Speaker 2>Well?

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<v Speaker 3>Well, well, well, you know, look, got to assess a

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<v Speaker 3>few things because one of the you know, kind of

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<v Speaker 3>a ticker in this is at the same time there

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<v Speaker 3>was a parallel federal wallsuit going on, uh and uh

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<v Speaker 3>just recently this past year the city settled that, and

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<v Speaker 3>trying to assess basically, you know, this federal state tug

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<v Speaker 3>of war, you know, does did what the city agreed

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<v Speaker 3>to in the federal lawsuit try to nullify what judge

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<v Speaker 3>Rulman signed off on with basically some whichnows at the

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<v Speaker 3>state court. And so we may have some serious constitutional

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<v Speaker 3>issues in terms of federal supremacy where the states your sovereignty.

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<v Speaker 2>Et cetera. So you know, you know, and and.

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<v Speaker 3>The good litigator, I think you would agree, the good

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<v Speaker 3>litigator kind of assesses those potential land mines at the

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<v Speaker 3>outset of a case, as opposed to oops, I already

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<v Speaker 3>tripped over a landmine.

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<v Speaker 2>So that's part of the issue. We wanted to assess.

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<v Speaker 3>Is this new case, this federal case, and what the

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<v Speaker 3>city did there and were they really trying to deliver

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<v Speaker 3>undermined this order.

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<v Speaker 2>From this from Judge Roulman.

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<v Speaker 3>I would not put anything. I would not put anything

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<v Speaker 3>past this mayor, the city council and the city administration.

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<v Speaker 3>So very well could try to do that.

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<v Speaker 1>The new liberals on council may be recognizing they had

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<v Speaker 1>this order from Hamlety County common Place Court created a

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<v Speaker 1>conflict of law situation. I remember him in law school.

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<v Speaker 1>Conflict of law was a big issue by starting a

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<v Speaker 1>federal lawsuit to try to get the case out of

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<v Speaker 1>common police court in the federal court. And are the

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<v Speaker 1>two orders different in any significant extent.

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<v Speaker 3>Uh, there does seem to be, like I said, just

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<v Speaker 3>getting on that federal case. But it seems like the

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<v Speaker 3>federal court they agreed instead of immediately calling the police,

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<v Speaker 3>you got to call a social worker to come out

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<v Speaker 3>and try to negotiate or talk with people who are

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<v Speaker 3>using drugs in these homeless camps before you can charge

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<v Speaker 3>them with a trespass or anything.

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<v Speaker 2>And so it seems like the city was deliberately trying,

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<v Speaker 2>you know.

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<v Speaker 3>And the one question is do they even apprize the

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<v Speaker 3>federal judge of that disorder that they were bound by

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<v Speaker 3>under state law. So and this this is a a

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<v Speaker 3>little bit more investigation.

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<v Speaker 1>And Kurt Hartman, this isn't a federal I don't know

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<v Speaker 1>what the jurisdiction was, Uh, to go to a federal.

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<v Speaker 2>You'll love this.

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<v Speaker 3>The claim was and it was brought by the homeless coalist.

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<v Speaker 3>I believe in that that group in Cincinnati.

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<v Speaker 2>Against the Sea.

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<v Speaker 3>Their whole claim was removing people from homelessness or using

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<v Speaker 3>drugs on property that they don't own is cruel and

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<v Speaker 3>unusual position.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, mum, Now there was a US Supreme Court decision

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<v Speaker 1>on that about six months ago, and the Supremes decided

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<v Speaker 1>it's a local matter and that there are not constitutional

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<v Speaker 1>slash federal issues. Now, that came after the lawsuit in

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<v Speaker 1>federal court, but the interaction of the US Supreme Court

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<v Speaker 1>decision and involved Portland, Oregon, and there was some homeless

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<v Speaker 1>coalition camp operators in Portland, Oregon that said there are

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<v Speaker 1>federal issues here, which are clearly there are not. And

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<v Speaker 1>the Supreme Court sent it back to Portland, Oregon claiming

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<v Speaker 1>to do what you have to do. How about getting

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<v Speaker 1>that US Supreme Court decision to overrule the Federal Court

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<v Speaker 1>decision to implement this order of Judge Rulman.

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<v Speaker 2>Does that make sense, Willie?

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<v Speaker 3>You clearly see the whole lay of the lay, and

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<v Speaker 3>that's the issue, you know, the Supreme Court supreme law,

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<v Speaker 3>and it is a local issue. It's a police power,

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<v Speaker 3>it's a health, safety and welfare issue. And you know

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<v Speaker 3>from law school and practicing law, those are state and

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<v Speaker 3>local issues.

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<v Speaker 2>Those are not federal issues.

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<v Speaker 1>In fact, we live at a time now where the

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<v Speaker 1>US Supreme Court is telling the states under the ninth

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<v Speaker 1>and tenth Amendment, we're done expanding the ability and power

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<v Speaker 1>of federal courts over strictly local matters. And this is

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<v Speaker 1>a strictly local matter without federal issues. And if you

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<v Speaker 1>interrupt with the US Supreme Court's decision on the consent

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<v Speaker 1>decree in the federal court case here, I think you're

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<v Speaker 1>on firm legal footing. And how about this, Can something

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<v Speaker 1>be done while Melissa Powers is still in office over

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<v Speaker 1>the next two weeks. I have a sense that Connie Pillach,

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<v Speaker 1>who's perceived to be a liberal, and I have no

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<v Speaker 1>idea if she is at some point I want to

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<v Speaker 1>meet with her. I have no idea if she is

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<v Speaker 1>or is not. But I would think the Attorney General

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<v Speaker 1>told me that if someone will contact him, he would

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<v Speaker 1>seriously consider her intervening in the case. So when the

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<v Speaker 1>prosecutor's office changes, the AG will be a named party,

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<v Speaker 1>you know what I'm saying, And therefore what you know

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<v Speaker 1>what I'm saying there?

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, yeah, I think I think right now, just because

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<v Speaker 3>the change of all the change, you know, a personnel's

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<v Speaker 3>occurring in about two weeks in our prosecutor's office, you know,

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<v Speaker 3>missing Powers could proceed, you know, try to hold a contempt,

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<v Speaker 3>et cetera.

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<v Speaker 2>But by the time that happens, right new.

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<v Speaker 3>Prosecutors in place, the would be a waste of resources,

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<v Speaker 3>you know here here in December, but you very easily

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<v Speaker 3>can make a call to the Attorney General Yost and say, hey,

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<v Speaker 3>we've got this issue here in Cincinnati. It's been brewing.

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<v Speaker 3>The city's ignoring it. You know, mister Yost, mister Attorney General,

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<v Speaker 3>for the sake of the people of Hamilton County and

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<v Speaker 3>the city of Cincinnati, we need you to come in

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<v Speaker 3>and intervene.

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<v Speaker 2>In this case.

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<v Speaker 3>And you all see him coming in and intervening, I

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<v Speaker 3>think would be a lot more stronger, it would be

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<v Speaker 3>a lot more oomped to it, if you will, than

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<v Speaker 3>a private citizen doing it.

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<v Speaker 2>We're looking at having a.

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<v Speaker 3>Private citizen do it, but if Dave Yost will do

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<v Speaker 3>it that I think the court will take significant note

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<v Speaker 3>of that issue.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, lastly, I'll say this to you, Kurt Hartman. I

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<v Speaker 1>will give you the private cell phone number of mister

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<v Speaker 1>Attorney General David Yost, and before January rolls around, if

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<v Speaker 1>he can intervene, away we go. And I think that's

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<v Speaker 1>the approach to take, and then the people must be served.

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<v Speaker 1>I'll give you the number off the air, I'll give

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<v Speaker 1>him a call. I'll call I'll call you after three

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<v Speaker 1>o'clock today, we'll talk further.

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<v Speaker 2>I understand stand. Yeah, that's got to be addressed.

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<v Speaker 3>I mean, right now you've got city leadership just ignoring

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<v Speaker 3>the court order, and that's not acceptable. See, but what

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<v Speaker 3>do you what do you expect when you elect nine

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<v Speaker 3>progressives you'll and a mayor?

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<v Speaker 2>What do you expect them to do?

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<v Speaker 3>And like I said, they're trying to drive us to

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<v Speaker 3>the San Francisco of the Midwest.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, that's what we have to do.

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<v Speaker 1>We have to have the mayor and share along comply

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<v Speaker 1>with the law, well under contempt, which couldn't involve fines

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<v Speaker 1>or imprisonment if you refuse to follow the law. Kurt Hartman,

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<v Speaker 1>I'll be in touch with you after three o'clock. I'm

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<v Speaker 1>gonna call yous first make sure I can give you

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<v Speaker 1>his cell phone, and then if that's okay with him,

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<v Speaker 1>away we go.

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<v Speaker 2>Perfect.

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<v Speaker 1>Thank you, Bill, God bless America. Let's continue. Bill Cunningham

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<v Speaker 1>News Radio seven hundred WLW