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No, we're necessary eighty. 49 00:02:12.360 --> 00:02:15.800 You are now listening to True Murder, the most shocking 50 00:02:15.879 --> 00:02:18.919 killers in true crime history and the authors that have 51 00:02:18.960 --> 00:02:26.280 written about them, Gasey, Bundy, Dahmer, The Nightstalker BTK Every 52 00:02:26.319 --> 00:02:29.960 week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and 53 00:02:30.080 --> 00:02:34.599 infamous killers in true crime history True Murder with your host, 54 00:02:35.000 --> 00:02:38.159 journalist and author Dan Zufanski. 55 00:02:47.479 --> 00:02:52.080 Good evening. On Christmas Eve two thousand and seven, Judy 56 00:02:52.120 --> 00:02:55.879 and Wayne Anderson's daughter Michelle, and her boyfriend Joseph McEnroe 57 00:02:56.439 --> 00:03:00.520 arrived at their home for a family meal. Unbeknown to them, 58 00:03:00.680 --> 00:03:03.479 their daughter was armed with a loaded nine millimeter pistol 59 00:03:03.680 --> 00:03:07.800 and macenroe was carrying a three fifty seven magnum. Both 60 00:03:07.840 --> 00:03:10.280 parents were callously shot dead by the pair and their 61 00:03:10.280 --> 00:03:13.719 bodies hidden from view. Two and a half hours later, 62 00:03:13.759 --> 00:03:17.000 Michelle's brother Scott, his wife Erica, and their two children, 63 00:03:17.080 --> 00:03:21.199 Olivia five and Nathan three, arrived at the house. Within 64 00:03:21.240 --> 00:03:26.000 the hour, they too had been pitilessly slain in an 65 00:03:26.039 --> 00:03:28.960 act of violence that was breathtaking in its scope and cruelty. 66 00:03:30.319 --> 00:03:33.199 With his highly anticipated third book, Paul Sanders takes the 67 00:03:33.199 --> 00:03:35.879 reader inside every day of the trial of Michelle Anderson 68 00:03:36.280 --> 00:03:40.159 with his customary attention to detail from December two thousand 69 00:03:40.199 --> 00:03:44.520 fifteenth until March two thousand and sixteen, and in a 70 00:03:44.639 --> 00:03:47.800 unique digression from his other works, Sanders includes something he 71 00:03:47.840 --> 00:03:52.080 has never done before an interview with one of the killers, 72 00:03:52.159 --> 00:03:57.159 Joseph Macenroe at Walla Walla Penitentiary. Banquet of Consequences is 73 00:03:57.199 --> 00:03:59.199 the first of two books of what came to be 74 00:03:59.319 --> 00:04:02.719 known as the Our Nation Murders. Were the killings of 75 00:04:02.759 --> 00:04:06.840 premeditated act or had the defendants acted in self defense? 76 00:04:08.319 --> 00:04:12.240 And what of the deaths of Olivia Nathan who shot them? 77 00:04:12.240 --> 00:04:15.560 And why it would not be an easy task for 78 00:04:15.599 --> 00:04:18.839 a jury to decide? The reader has taken into a 79 00:04:18.879 --> 00:04:21.399 world few of us who have ever received a jury 80 00:04:21.399 --> 00:04:25.319 summons will ever experience. The book that we're featuring this 81 00:04:25.360 --> 00:04:29.720 evening is Banquet of Consequences, A juror's plight, the Carnation 82 00:04:29.920 --> 00:04:33.839 murders trial of Michelle Anderson, with my special guest journalist 83 00:04:33.879 --> 00:04:37.759 and author Paul Sanders. Welcome to the program, and thank 84 00:04:37.759 --> 00:04:41.279 you very much for a Green News interview. Paul Sanders. 85 00:04:42.800 --> 00:04:46.399 It's an honor to be here. Dan, thank you, thank. 86 00:04:46.199 --> 00:04:51.920 You very much. Fascinating perspective. Once again, thank you for 87 00:04:52.040 --> 00:04:54.839 taking us somewhere where we normally don't go with this, 88 00:04:55.160 --> 00:04:59.160 and this is right in the juror's box with people 89 00:04:59.199 --> 00:05:05.240 making decisions on life and death and the consequences that 90 00:05:05.319 --> 00:05:08.040 you talk about in Banquet of Consequences, we'll be talking 91 00:05:08.040 --> 00:05:13.519 about now. Let me ask we talked to we looted 92 00:05:13.560 --> 00:05:15.920 about these These is not the first book of the 93 00:05:16.720 --> 00:05:19.079 about the Carnation murder. So tell us a little bit 94 00:05:19.079 --> 00:05:22.680 about your background and how you came to be involved 95 00:05:22.720 --> 00:05:25.480 with this, and maybe you could tell us about who 96 00:05:25.560 --> 00:05:29.800 you were there on behalf of at the trial. Tell 97 00:05:29.879 --> 00:05:31.959 us a little bit about who you are associated with 98 00:05:32.360 --> 00:05:34.639 and how you came to be in a position to 99 00:05:35.800 --> 00:05:39.279 want to and be able to write Banquet of Consequences. 100 00:05:39.399 --> 00:05:42.959 So, good question, Dan, Thank you. My story began in 101 00:05:43.160 --> 00:05:50.959 twenty fourteen. I, like many jurors around the country, was 102 00:05:51.000 --> 00:05:58.040 called pregury service, and in this case it was a 103 00:05:58.079 --> 00:06:01.720 high profile murder trial. Girl's name was Marissa DeVault. She 104 00:06:01.800 --> 00:06:06.839 put a hammer in her husband's head five times. Twelve 105 00:06:07.000 --> 00:06:12.639 hundred jurors were summoned. In the end, sixteen were chosen, 106 00:06:13.519 --> 00:06:16.199 and then there was a final twelve. I was one 107 00:06:16.199 --> 00:06:19.959 of the final twelve. The trial was six months in length, 108 00:06:20.600 --> 00:06:28.920 three phases, and in the end we ended up giving 109 00:06:29.040 --> 00:06:36.360 the killer life or recommending life in prison without parole. Coincidentally, 110 00:06:37.160 --> 00:06:41.199 in that trial, a prosecutor used to show up. I 111 00:06:41.199 --> 00:06:42.879 think somebody who's been on your show, as a matter 112 00:06:42.920 --> 00:06:48.120 of fact, Juan Martinez, and especially when psychiatrists were on 113 00:06:48.199 --> 00:06:51.279 the stand, and we recognize him as a high profile 114 00:06:51.319 --> 00:06:55.959 prosecuting attorney, and we all wondered, why is he here? 115 00:06:56.000 --> 00:06:57.879 What does he have to do with this case? It's 116 00:06:57.959 --> 00:07:02.480 not our prosecutors a Eric bat Well. The answer was 117 00:07:02.480 --> 00:07:07.639 found out soon. Juan Martinez was actually scheduled to do 118 00:07:07.759 --> 00:07:14.399 our case, but another very similar killer, Jody Arius, her 119 00:07:14.519 --> 00:07:19.800 trial five months before hours the jury hung on her 120 00:07:19.839 --> 00:07:24.160 trial in the penalty phase, the death penalty phase. So 121 00:07:25.319 --> 00:07:28.959 just a few months after my trial completed, I was 122 00:07:29.040 --> 00:07:32.000 working on Brain Damage of Jurors Tale, my first book, 123 00:07:32.079 --> 00:07:33.879 the story of what it is like to be a 124 00:07:33.879 --> 00:07:39.120 death penalty juror, and I thought, on a whim I 125 00:07:39.199 --> 00:07:41.600 hit I heard on TV there was going to be 126 00:07:41.720 --> 00:07:45.639 this short penalty phase retrial. This thing was scheduled to 127 00:07:45.680 --> 00:07:49.439 be maybe six weeks in length, and I by, you 128 00:07:49.439 --> 00:07:51.959 know what, it might be interesting to go down there, 129 00:07:52.240 --> 00:07:57.759 maybe do a little blog or journal it, and maybe 130 00:07:58.079 --> 00:08:04.360 post it online. I did that and their response was unbelievable. 131 00:08:04.480 --> 00:08:07.319 It took time, but that trial also ended up six 132 00:08:07.360 --> 00:08:11.680 months so I wrote my second book, Why Not Killer 133 00:08:11.800 --> 00:08:14.680 Juris did the death penalty trial of Good to the Areas, 134 00:08:15.839 --> 00:08:19.800 And when that book was complete, I found myself, as 135 00:08:20.160 --> 00:08:22.879 many authors do when they're first starting out, I found 136 00:08:22.879 --> 00:08:29.480 myself broke. So I put a message out on Facebook. 137 00:08:30.639 --> 00:08:34.159 I've gotten a lot of followers. I'm honored to have 138 00:08:34.320 --> 00:08:36.159 every single one of them. And I put a message 139 00:08:36.200 --> 00:08:39.320 on Facebook and I said, hey, I'm looking to move, 140 00:08:39.440 --> 00:08:42.720 but it doesn't have to be in Phoenix, Arizona any ideas. 141 00:08:43.759 --> 00:08:49.120 And the suggestions came back worldwide, mostly around the country, 142 00:08:49.159 --> 00:08:51.960 but people said've moved to Canada, I've moved to Australia, 143 00:08:52.080 --> 00:08:54.679 moved to Great Britain, moved to New York, moved to Boston. 144 00:08:55.679 --> 00:08:58.639 And I had a list of things that were important 145 00:08:58.679 --> 00:09:01.159 to me, and one of them was I need to 146 00:09:01.159 --> 00:09:03.720 have an income aside from my book income, which was 147 00:09:03.759 --> 00:09:07.440 still growing. I need to have a roof over my head. 148 00:09:08.039 --> 00:09:11.120 And gosh darn it, the state needs to have a 149 00:09:11.159 --> 00:09:15.200 death penalty because if I do a trial again, I 150 00:09:15.279 --> 00:09:19.679 really only do death penalty trials. Old friend of mine 151 00:09:19.759 --> 00:09:22.159 road and said, when you come up here, I got 152 00:09:22.159 --> 00:09:23.720 a job and a roof over your head. And you 153 00:09:23.720 --> 00:09:26.320 can do what you want. And I asked him, does 154 00:09:26.480 --> 00:09:29.360 Washington have the death penalty? He said yes, and I 155 00:09:29.480 --> 00:09:34.440 moved to Washington. It was suggested by a girl by 156 00:09:34.440 --> 00:09:38.399 the name of Jennifer Wood. She had brought up before 157 00:09:38.440 --> 00:09:40.480 I moved up here. She said, you know, there's a 158 00:09:40.600 --> 00:09:45.559 really interesting trial that just occurred on Joseph McEnroe, but 159 00:09:45.639 --> 00:09:48.639 there's still to be a trial on Michelle Anderson and 160 00:09:48.679 --> 00:09:52.039 the Carnation murders. And that's how it started. I typically 161 00:09:52.240 --> 00:09:57.480 don't research before I sit in a trial every day, 162 00:09:58.240 --> 00:10:00.879 and the reason being is I want to the impact 163 00:10:02.240 --> 00:10:09.279 of the case presented the same as what might as 164 00:10:09.399 --> 00:10:13.120 what it might be to a djur. Jurors who are 165 00:10:13.200 --> 00:10:18.600 selected are selected partly because they know nothing about the 166 00:10:19.159 --> 00:10:21.559 trial they're about to be seated on, and I like 167 00:10:21.679 --> 00:10:29.840 being in that position. It's there's the dark side of trials, 168 00:10:30.159 --> 00:10:34.039 which is the victim and what happened to him, her 169 00:10:34.279 --> 00:10:37.519 or them, and then there's the other side that I 170 00:10:37.559 --> 00:10:41.840 really enjoy, and that is what a juror must feel 171 00:10:41.919 --> 00:10:47.240 when they sit in a seat in a very formal circumstance, 172 00:10:47.519 --> 00:10:51.240 in a high profile circumstance, and what do they feel 173 00:10:51.480 --> 00:10:54.720 is the information is said to them on a day 174 00:10:54.759 --> 00:10:58.600 to day basis. And because I have had that unique 175 00:10:58.639 --> 00:11:03.240 opportunity to in that seat, when I sit in the gallery, 176 00:11:03.360 --> 00:11:07.120 it is very easy for me to understand what they 177 00:11:07.159 --> 00:11:10.919 are going through and of course my interpretation when I 178 00:11:10.919 --> 00:11:14.720 write it. The support I've had for this trial has 179 00:11:14.759 --> 00:11:18.960 been amazing. I've been honored to meet Pamela Mantle, who 180 00:11:19.080 --> 00:11:23.279 was the mother to Erica. Her son in law was Scott, 181 00:11:23.320 --> 00:11:27.720 and her two grandchildren were Olivia and Nathan. I was 182 00:11:27.759 --> 00:11:32.440 honored to meet four jurors from both the McEnroe trial 183 00:11:32.799 --> 00:11:36.159 and the Michelle and Anderson trial. I built a connection 184 00:11:36.320 --> 00:11:43.159 with the prosecutor. I am just unbelievably grateful for that. 185 00:11:44.360 --> 00:11:49.840 And then and I also met I had become friends 186 00:11:49.840 --> 00:11:55.039 with Ben Anderson, who was the grandson to Judy, the 187 00:11:55.919 --> 00:12:01.559 son of Mary Victoria. And she was the daughter that's 188 00:12:01.919 --> 00:12:07.360 called off the native Christmas Eve not to join the family. 189 00:12:08.480 --> 00:12:10.799 She'd been there ten years in a row, but that 190 00:12:11.440 --> 00:12:14.720 Christmas Eve she called juty let the message on the 191 00:12:14.759 --> 00:12:18.440 machine and said she would not be attending because her 192 00:12:18.480 --> 00:12:21.000 son had a cult. So she and her son did 193 00:12:21.039 --> 00:12:25.200 not Christmas Eve. And from there you know the rest 194 00:12:25.240 --> 00:12:26.559 of the story would happen. 195 00:12:28.679 --> 00:12:32.600 For those people and will take us very much like 196 00:12:32.600 --> 00:12:37.440 like you say, the jurors are supposed to be impartial, 197 00:12:37.519 --> 00:12:41.600 so they can't have research these kinds of cases. But 198 00:12:41.639 --> 00:12:45.279 there are the certain particulars that you knew at the time. 199 00:12:46.360 --> 00:12:49.320 You say, this didn't automatically interest you, and you were 200 00:12:49.360 --> 00:12:51.960 invited in, so it just fell into your lap. But 201 00:12:52.600 --> 00:12:55.480 tell us about the particulars of the crime as you 202 00:12:55.559 --> 00:12:58.480 knew it, and the public knew it, and probably the 203 00:12:58.559 --> 00:13:01.480 jurors knew it. What are those basic particulars that we 204 00:13:01.519 --> 00:13:05.200 spoke to in the introduction of what happened on Christmas 205 00:13:05.240 --> 00:13:10.200 Eve two thousand and seven at the Anderson home. Just 206 00:13:10.320 --> 00:13:12.360 what the public would have known and you would have 207 00:13:12.399 --> 00:13:13.240 known at that time. 208 00:13:14.519 --> 00:13:19.159 There was high profile in the Northwest, so they're pretty 209 00:13:19.200 --> 00:13:21.840 difficult to find a person in Washington who did not 210 00:13:22.080 --> 00:13:24.840 know at least something of the murders. But it was 211 00:13:24.919 --> 00:13:29.919 Christmas Eve on a damp, very damp, over cast day, 212 00:13:31.320 --> 00:13:37.679 and Michelle Anderson and her boyfriend of two years, Joseph McEnroe, 213 00:13:38.320 --> 00:13:44.600 arrived at her parents' residence, which was only a quarter 214 00:13:44.679 --> 00:13:48.679 of a mile up the driveway. Because Michelle and Joe 215 00:13:49.000 --> 00:13:54.720 lived in a trailer just down the driveway, which was 216 00:13:54.759 --> 00:14:01.000 owned by Michelle's father Wayne for a year let them 217 00:14:01.120 --> 00:14:07.360 live their rent free. Very near to Christmas Eve, Wayne 218 00:14:07.759 --> 00:14:14.519 had said, Michelle and Joe, you need to start paying rent, 219 00:14:14.840 --> 00:14:18.440 maybe a snipe in five hundred dollars four five hundred 220 00:14:18.440 --> 00:14:22.200 dollars a month, and it would be a good idea 221 00:14:22.480 --> 00:14:26.919 to get a job, which neither one had. Michelle took 222 00:14:26.960 --> 00:14:32.679 offense to that, and at two o'clock on Christmas Eve, 223 00:14:32.799 --> 00:14:38.000 they walked up. In Michelle's waistband, she had a nine 224 00:14:38.039 --> 00:14:43.519 millimeter Joseph in the back in his back under the 225 00:14:43.600 --> 00:14:45.799 belt with his shirt over it. He had a three 226 00:14:45.879 --> 00:14:49.159 fifty seven magnum and he also carried an empty box 227 00:14:49.200 --> 00:14:52.840 with him. It would come to be known as a 228 00:14:52.919 --> 00:14:57.399 decoy box. Judy opened the door, one could smell the 229 00:14:57.480 --> 00:15:01.559 Christmas the roast in the oven, the Christmas spice in 230 00:15:01.639 --> 00:15:04.639 the air. As she opened the door, he greeted her 231 00:15:04.840 --> 00:15:09.000 son and her daughter and potential son in law. She 232 00:15:09.200 --> 00:15:12.480 hugged them. Wayne called over from his easy chair he 233 00:15:12.600 --> 00:15:19.360 was watching the game on TV, called over with Merry Christmas, 234 00:15:19.399 --> 00:15:24.320 and within about forty five minutes, while Joseph was wrapping 235 00:15:24.519 --> 00:15:29.600 presents with Judy in another room. Michelle pulled out her 236 00:15:29.720 --> 00:15:34.480 nine millimeter gun and fired directly at her father Wayne. 237 00:15:35.360 --> 00:15:40.720 She missed. Joe came running out with Judy. Joe then 238 00:15:41.320 --> 00:15:46.360 fired his three fifty seven, contacting the bullet contacting Wayne 239 00:15:46.759 --> 00:15:54.399 in the head, and Wayne died immediately. He dropped. Then 240 00:15:55.919 --> 00:16:02.559 Michelle and Joe cornered Judy, Michelle's mother in the kitchen. 241 00:16:03.480 --> 00:16:08.720 While Michelle was screaming shooter, shooter, and Joe shot twice. 242 00:16:09.200 --> 00:16:13.600 The first bullet grazed her, the second one when she 243 00:16:13.799 --> 00:16:19.679 was in a croups position looking up, she faced the 244 00:16:19.720 --> 00:16:24.159 bullet of the three fifty seven magnum. The last words 245 00:16:24.200 --> 00:16:29.159 she heard were from Joe and he said, I'm sorry, Mom, 246 00:16:29.200 --> 00:16:33.000 and shot her. They then moved the bodies. They dragged 247 00:16:33.039 --> 00:16:35.759 them out to the shed outside. It was another three 248 00:16:35.799 --> 00:16:45.159 hours before her husband, Scott Olivia Nathan came over. Michelle 249 00:16:45.200 --> 00:16:49.159 and Joe waited in the living room. When the door 250 00:16:49.279 --> 00:16:52.720 opened welcoming the rest of the family. One could still 251 00:16:52.759 --> 00:16:55.840 smell the roast in the oven. Everything looked normal. The 252 00:16:55.919 --> 00:16:59.440 only thing not normal were Wayne and Judy were missing, 253 00:17:00.120 --> 00:17:03.600 and at some point Scott inquired about it. About twenty 254 00:17:03.679 --> 00:17:06.960 or thirty minutes after we were there, and at that 255 00:17:07.119 --> 00:17:14.559 point in time mayhem broke out. They were about sixteen 256 00:17:14.920 --> 00:17:22.599 bullets fired. The first to die was Scott. He was 257 00:17:22.640 --> 00:17:25.599 shot in the face by Michelle fell on the living 258 00:17:25.680 --> 00:17:29.240 room floor. The attention then turned to Erica, who was 259 00:17:29.279 --> 00:17:35.799 with her two children, five and three, and in a panic, 260 00:17:36.200 --> 00:17:39.880 she grabbed for a cordless telephone. She picked it up 261 00:17:40.000 --> 00:17:42.839 called nine one one. She got through it was an 262 00:17:42.880 --> 00:17:46.279 eleven second call. The voice connection was about six and 263 00:17:46.279 --> 00:17:52.200 a half seconds, enough to cry to but never really 264 00:17:52.240 --> 00:17:56.160 got words out. Then the phone was knocked out of 265 00:17:56.240 --> 00:18:03.519 her hand by Joseph, and he then proceeded to execute Erica, Nathan, 266 00:18:04.119 --> 00:18:09.440 and Olivia there in the living room floor. They left. 267 00:18:10.160 --> 00:18:13.240 When they left, they went down the driveway, passed their 268 00:18:13.319 --> 00:18:18.559 single wide trailer another three half a mile down the driveway, 269 00:18:19.359 --> 00:18:24.519 locked the gate premises, at which time two police cars 270 00:18:24.759 --> 00:18:29.160 showed up at the bottom of the driveway. By law, 271 00:18:29.839 --> 00:18:33.119 they did not have cause to go to cross the 272 00:18:33.200 --> 00:18:37.240 gate because of the nine one one call was said 273 00:18:37.279 --> 00:18:41.079 to have been a possible party call. By the person 274 00:18:41.279 --> 00:18:44.759 who answered the nine one one call, one could not 275 00:18:45.000 --> 00:18:48.359 tell exactly what the sounds were, so it's understand though 276 00:18:48.400 --> 00:18:51.960 she made the mistake, nobody could faint that something like 277 00:18:52.000 --> 00:18:57.599 this would happen. And about fifty two hours later, after 278 00:18:57.640 --> 00:19:04.319 the police had left her after duties work, people at 279 00:19:04.359 --> 00:19:07.559 work were wondering where she was. She had never been 280 00:19:07.720 --> 00:19:11.720 late in the seventeen years she worked there. And finally 281 00:19:11.839 --> 00:19:16.759 Linda Teey went directly to Judy's house the day after 282 00:19:16.839 --> 00:19:24.200 Christmas and entered the premises and then at that point 283 00:19:24.279 --> 00:19:28.279 saw three bodies, went in the panic ranto the back bedroom, 284 00:19:28.599 --> 00:19:31.400 called nine one one from the back bedroom, stayed on 285 00:19:31.440 --> 00:19:33.559 the phone for about an hour, then nine one one 286 00:19:34.599 --> 00:19:40.079 she was extricated from the building. Six bodies were ultimately discovered, 287 00:19:41.079 --> 00:19:47.119 and those were the Kannasian murders. 288 00:19:47.839 --> 00:19:52.880 Now you talk about the discovery of the bodies and 289 00:19:52.920 --> 00:19:58.079 then the police response. So how do police get on 290 00:19:58.160 --> 00:20:00.920 the trail of these two immediately? How does that work? 291 00:20:01.920 --> 00:20:06.279 Tell us about that process question? Dan? Thank you. In 292 00:20:06.400 --> 00:20:12.599 this case, it was really very easy. The police arrived 293 00:20:13.920 --> 00:20:20.119 in a lot of police, police helicopters, share of anything. 294 00:20:20.240 --> 00:20:26.839 King County arrived and twenty thirty vehicles and a crime 295 00:20:26.880 --> 00:20:31.920 scene are the and while all that was going on, 296 00:20:32.039 --> 00:20:35.279 which took about three hours for the full compliment of 297 00:20:35.319 --> 00:20:42.440 all departments to be there. Michelle and Joseph drove up 298 00:20:42.480 --> 00:20:47.279 in their black as ten pickup, pulled over, and just so, 299 00:20:47.880 --> 00:20:52.400 just so happened to walk up to Scott Prompkins, who 300 00:20:52.480 --> 00:20:57.680 would become the lead detective in the case, and said, hey, 301 00:20:57.960 --> 00:21:04.279 what's going on, pretending of course they were innocent, and 302 00:21:05.400 --> 00:21:09.920 Scott not knowing anything. All he knew was I have 303 00:21:10.039 --> 00:21:16.480 a family member here. This is a probable death notification. 304 00:21:17.519 --> 00:21:21.079 It's a very difficult circumstance, and I'm going to have 305 00:21:21.119 --> 00:21:26.680 to break the news to Michelle where her family is deceaits. 306 00:21:27.200 --> 00:21:31.359 And over the next hour and a half, Michelle sat 307 00:21:31.519 --> 00:21:34.640 in the front seat of the car with Detective Scott Thompkins. 308 00:21:35.160 --> 00:21:41.240 Another detective, Detective Peters, sat in the backseat and Michelle 309 00:21:41.359 --> 00:21:45.480 talked and she was questioned for about an hour and 310 00:21:45.519 --> 00:21:49.119 a half. It was under the premise it was a 311 00:21:48.559 --> 00:21:53.880 death notification, but what came out because of about a 312 00:21:53.920 --> 00:22:01.359 half hour of inconsistent, inconsistent stories, both actors figured out 313 00:22:01.759 --> 00:22:07.279 that it looked like Michelle was hiding something, and suddenly 314 00:22:07.559 --> 00:22:13.079 Michelle broke down and said, I did it. And then 315 00:22:13.119 --> 00:22:18.599 for the next forty five minutes, amidst a myriad of 316 00:22:19.319 --> 00:22:26.599 some untruths and lies, she confessed, and Jose McEnroe did 317 00:22:26.599 --> 00:22:31.960 the same thing with Detective Tavlovitch in his car just 318 00:22:32.000 --> 00:22:38.319 one hundred yards. Police to find out who who really 319 00:22:38.359 --> 00:22:43.640 the suspects were. The difficulty came in the fact that 320 00:22:44.640 --> 00:22:50.039 since both of them spent much of their confession with 321 00:22:50.240 --> 00:22:54.920 lies intermingled in them, their job was to figure out 322 00:22:55.079 --> 00:22:56.319 what really happened. 323 00:22:59.440 --> 00:23:05.400 You talk about the confession that was gained from Michelle Anderson, 324 00:23:06.200 --> 00:23:09.920 but in that, of course everyone looks for and I'm 325 00:23:09.960 --> 00:23:14.319 sure the audience is interested in the reasoning given behind this. 326 00:23:15.119 --> 00:23:18.759 The Sometimes we talk about abuse or dishumiliation from the 327 00:23:18.839 --> 00:23:23.720 parents or neglect. Tell us a little bit about the 328 00:23:23.759 --> 00:23:28.200 background here of the parents and what the excuse was, 329 00:23:28.640 --> 00:23:32.799 What the reason was that Michelle gave for not only 330 00:23:32.799 --> 00:23:35.720 the argument that led to the murder, but also also 331 00:23:35.759 --> 00:23:38.799 talk about the disagreement, longstanding disagreement she had with her 332 00:23:38.799 --> 00:23:39.400 brother Scott. 333 00:23:43.839 --> 00:23:54.319 Michelle was an overweight, somewhat out or a somewhat entitled girl, spoiled, 334 00:23:54.920 --> 00:23:59.880 spoiled by Judy. Judy only wanted the best for her daughter. 335 00:24:01.039 --> 00:24:04.640 Judy worked for the Post Office for seventeen years. Wayne 336 00:24:04.880 --> 00:24:14.359 worked for Boeing for over twenty years. They Wayne was retired, 337 00:24:14.519 --> 00:24:20.279 Judy was Matt and they were your typical Middle America parents. 338 00:24:20.599 --> 00:24:25.440 They wanted the best for their children, They wanted the 339 00:24:25.480 --> 00:24:26.960 best for their lit is. 340 00:24:26.960 --> 00:24:29.200 Ryan here, and I have a question for you. What 341 00:24:29.279 --> 00:24:30.960 do you do when you win? 342 00:24:31.359 --> 00:24:31.440 Like? 343 00:24:31.519 --> 00:24:34.680 Are you a fist pumper, a woo, a handclapper, a 344 00:24:34.720 --> 00:24:36.519 high fiver? I kind of like the high five. But 345 00:24:36.599 --> 00:24:38.240 if you want to hone in on those winning moves, 346 00:24:38.400 --> 00:24:41.559 check out Chumbuck Casino. At chumbacasino dot com, choose from 347 00:24:41.680 --> 00:24:44.240 hundreds of social casino style games for your chance to 348 00:24:44.279 --> 00:24:48.039 redeem serious cash prizes. 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We're kind of in a 361 00:25:38.519 --> 00:25:43.319 bad area. And Judy, being her mothers said you know what, 362 00:25:43.640 --> 00:25:46.839 why don't you come live up here. I'll even give 363 00:25:46.880 --> 00:25:51.319 you a job at the post office, and we've got 364 00:25:51.319 --> 00:25:54.319 a residence for you, and you know what, go ahead 365 00:25:54.359 --> 00:25:58.359 and bring Joe. And so they came up. They moved 366 00:25:58.400 --> 00:26:01.559 in a single wide and they lived there rent free. 367 00:26:02.039 --> 00:26:09.079 Joe worked for a number of targets. Michelle worked part 368 00:26:09.119 --> 00:26:13.720 time for the post office, pretty much three two three 369 00:26:13.799 --> 00:26:17.240 days a week, a job given to her by her 370 00:26:17.279 --> 00:26:25.839 mother about a year and a half or about oh goodness, okay, 371 00:26:25.839 --> 00:26:31.599 about six months before the murders, Michelle quit her job 372 00:26:31.839 --> 00:26:35.119 at the post office, saying that being on her and 373 00:26:35.200 --> 00:26:39.160 they were talking about her behind her back, and Jolle 374 00:26:39.200 --> 00:26:44.960 even helped with her quitting. He with Michelle went into 375 00:26:45.000 --> 00:26:50.039 the postmaster's office and eventually they were asked to leave 376 00:26:50.240 --> 00:26:55.279 because voices were raised and Michelle was adamant she had 377 00:26:55.319 --> 00:27:02.000 been screwed by somebody. Well, the same resentments were the 378 00:27:02.079 --> 00:27:08.240 same resentments building with her family. Wayne felt she had 379 00:27:08.359 --> 00:27:13.400 lived there long enough without working and increased the pressure 380 00:27:13.480 --> 00:27:16.599 on her to say, hey, you need to get a job, 381 00:27:16.720 --> 00:27:19.319 be you need to pay rent. You're not just living 382 00:27:19.319 --> 00:27:21.599 in it. This was supposed to be a transition for you. 383 00:27:22.200 --> 00:27:27.279 Michelle took offense to that. She also her brother loved 384 00:27:27.319 --> 00:27:31.839 her very much. And where the dynamic gets really weird 385 00:27:32.359 --> 00:27:38.519 is the fact that when Scott, her brother, married Erica, 386 00:27:39.119 --> 00:27:44.359 Tension stayed with Erica. He eventually had two children with Erica. 387 00:27:44.960 --> 00:27:49.119 It's understandable his attention would be more on Erica than 388 00:27:49.160 --> 00:27:53.200 on Michelle. But Michelle was living in this world that 389 00:27:53.519 --> 00:27:57.359 things were not like her childhood. They had changed and 390 00:27:57.440 --> 00:28:02.400 she was not accepting of it. But she took whatever 391 00:28:02.640 --> 00:28:06.240 help Scott would give her, like maybe working on her 392 00:28:06.440 --> 00:28:13.319 eighties camaro Irock. He spent a lot of time replacing 393 00:28:13.440 --> 00:28:18.720 the engine, give her money for cards. She then paid 394 00:28:18.799 --> 00:28:21.680 him to fix the car. For whatever reason, the car 395 00:28:22.319 --> 00:28:26.440 just never got running, and instead of Michelle being grateful 396 00:28:27.440 --> 00:28:31.519 her brother's help, she got very angry, and she built 397 00:28:31.599 --> 00:28:35.279 up this number in her head that he owed her 398 00:28:36.119 --> 00:28:43.119 thirty thousand dollars. So her intense on Christmas eat was 399 00:28:43.680 --> 00:28:47.400 to get her thirty thousand dollars back, and the way 400 00:28:47.559 --> 00:28:50.440 she would do that is she would go to her 401 00:28:50.519 --> 00:28:59.640