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Speaker 1: Welcome to episode ninety five of Get It Alive, a

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podcast about animal attacks, why they happen, and how we

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can avoid them. I'm your host, Ashley, and I know

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it's been a hot minute since I've uploaded a new episode.

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Today's guest is someone who made me excited to get

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back into podcasting and talking about this topic. And I'm

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hoping to put out more episodes soon and get back

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into the swing of things. But I've had some life

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things pop up that have prevented me from putting out

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episodes more regularly. And I can give a quick update

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on that, and if you don't want to know anything

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about my life, feel free to skip ahead like a

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minute or two and I'll get into the interview. But

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for those of you who don't follow some Patreon, because

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I posted an update there about a month ago, and

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if you don't follow me on social media, then you

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would not know that I in February got pregnant and

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I was planning to do like a Mother's Day episode

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for this podcast about like mother bears protecting their cubs

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and stuff like that as a way to be like, Haha,

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I'm pregnant. And then in April, early April my husband

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and I went to an appointment. It was going to

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be our eleven week ultrasound. We had already had an

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eight week ultrasound, seen the baby, seen the heartbeat, and

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in this eleven week we were going to do all

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the testing and whatever to see if it was like

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what the baby's sex was and stuff like that. So

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before the ultrasound got a PAPS mirror that will be

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relevant later. I'm not just saying it to say it,

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but during the ultrasound, the doctor told us there was

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no or heartbeat anymore and that our baby had stopped

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growing after that eight week ultrasound. So that meant for

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about three weeks my body didn't know I was not

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pregnant anymore or that the baby wasn't viable. So that

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was a Monday. Scheduled the DNC for that Wednesday, which

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is basically just an abortion, taking the baby out of

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me and making sure everything's out of my adress. So

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on that Tuesday. So the next day after we found out,

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I uploaded a little clip to our Patreon just saying

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what was going on with me and my thoughts at

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the time, and I posted that and an hour later

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I started to miscarry. At home. It was literally the

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worst thing I've ever experienced physically. It was a nightmare.

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And the reason I'm saying this story is not just

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to be like, way feel bad for me. It does

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suck and life sucks, but uh, I mostly have been

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talking about it because no one. I have one good friend, Hannah,

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who's been on this podcast before, who had talked openly

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about miscarriage. Otherwise, no one talks about it, and I

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had no idea what to expect, and the doctors when

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you get pregnant don't tell you what miscarriage is going

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to be like or what you should look out for.

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And thank goodness, one of my nurses called me like

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two hours into having the miscarriage and said, hey, you

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know what, are you still bleeding this much and whatever?

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And I said yes, and she was like, that's you

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shouldn't be still bleeding this much for how much time

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you've been going through this. So she said, if you

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get dizzy, go to the hospital. Right after that phone call,

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I started to get dizzy, and thank god for Margie,

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who has been on this podcast before. She was scheduled

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to come over my house and she pulled up right

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as I was about to pass out, So long story short,

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I go to the er. My blood pressure is seventy

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over forty. By the time I get there, I'm in

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the r for seven hours trying not to die. My

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poor husband leaves work to come see me at the hospital.

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Get stuck on the highway for four hours. It's an

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hour long commute from his work to the hospital. Get

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stuck for four hours because of propane truck rolled over

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on the highway. So you could say that the day

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was a nightmare. So anyways, I survived clearly and go

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home and try to be a person again. And then

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a week after that, the doctors, Hey, your papsmere came

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back abnormal, super cool. If you don't have a cervix,

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then you might not know that papsmere is to screen

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for a cervical cancer. So get a biopsy of my

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service done two weeks later, which is way longer than

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it should have taken them to get back to me,

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just saying, but two weeks later, I find out that

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there are cells on my cervix that will become cancer.

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So that means by the time that this episode is posted,

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the day before this is posted, I need to get

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parts of my servix removed which one ow. I'm assuming

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it's gonna hurt a lot, because parts of your body

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that are there should stay there, they should be removed.

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So I'm sure it's not gonna be pleasant. I'm laughing

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because if not, it's just gonna be me crying. So

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have to get that done. That means if we want

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to even have kids, my husband and I have to

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wait longer to try. And if I do get pregnant again,

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it now means that I will have a higher chance

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of miscarriage in the second trimester, which is very scary

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because as it was, I literally had to give birth,

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like when you miscarry, you're giving birth, like your cervix dilates,

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you're passing the baby. I cannot imagine having to do

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that in the second trimester. I can't imagine ever eving

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to do it again. It was the worst thing ever

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and all of this has been a nightmare. But I

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just want to take a second one to be like,

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let's talk about miscarriage moore, and also get your pap smear.

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Please God, if you have a cervice, get papsmere. Thank

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you so much to those of you who listen to

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this podcast reach out to me, especially those of you

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who reached out to me because you also had to miscarriage.

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I could not have gotten through this whole thing if

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it wasn't for the people that reached out and checked

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in on me and shared their stories with me. It's

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a nightmare, and when I was in it, it was

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very much like a pity party, as it should be.

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I just feel so bad for myself that I had

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to go through it. But hearing that other people went

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through it and just knowing I wasn't alone, and also

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knowing that some people did go on to have like

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perfectly normal pregnancies and children after that is really comforting.

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So if you were one of those people who reached

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out to me in any capacity, thank you sincerely. If

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you reached out to me and shared your story of

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you having a miscarriage, thank you so much. I'm so

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sorry that we're all in this club together, but it

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has been so comforting. And if for some reason you're

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listening and you have to experience a miscarriage, and I'm

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so sorry if you do, but I'm part of that club,

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you can always reach out to me and share your

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story and scream into the void, because that's a lot

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of what I have been doing. So that has been

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why I have not hosted the podcast episode because it

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hasn't been on my mind. Frankly, I've still had to

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That was right around final season for the two classes

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I was in. I still want to have to finish,

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and I'm in a new class now, still trying to

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finish this master's degree this year, still trying to move,

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still working, so I've had a lot on my plate.

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But it was really great talking to Amber today and

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just kind of getting back into the swing of things

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for the podcast. And it's one of those episodes and

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she's one of those people where like it just makes

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me so excited being in this field and reignites my

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passion for this podcast. So I'm really hoping to put

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out more episodes and find more guests and things like that.

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For you guys, I can't promise any sort of consistency yet,

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especially because is my procedure that I'm getting with getting

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parts of my service taken out before this is released.

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I'm sure I'm not going to be like super pumped

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to just like get on a podcast to start talking

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about people being attacked by animals. So you know, give

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me some time, I'll get there. But it might be

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a minute. So thank you all so much for listening,

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for reaching out, just for everything, and without further ado,

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this is my interview with BAAR biologist Amber Cornack.

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Speaker 2: So my name is Amber Krnack. Currently I live in

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East Teleanna, Montana. I'm originally from Michigan. I grew up

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there until I was about eighteen.

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Speaker 3: So in two thousand and.

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Speaker 2: Eight I moved over to Montana to initially start off

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college and then.

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Speaker 3: In and out of Montana. But yeah, now I'm back.

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Speaker 1: Nice. And so did you spend any time in Montana

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like as you were younger? That's just where you went

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to college.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So we took a trip when I was oh gosh,

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twelve thirteen with some family friends to Yellowstone, of course,

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of all the places, and we did the Yellowstone on

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Grand Teton, and I just fell in love. And that's

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what really brought me out to Montana to that's just where.

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Speaker 3: I wanted to go.

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Speaker 2: I loved it, the mountains, everything, it just seemed so awesome.

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Speaker 1: Nice. So, I'm assuming you grew up recreating around black bears,

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but did you grow up recreating around brown bears at all?

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Speaker 2: Actually, I did not grow up really recreating around black bears,

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any bear for that matter. Yeah, So it was not

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a we have bears in Michigan, but we did not

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travel a lot in Michigan, And obviously I had no

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idea there were black bears in Florida. And we traveled

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to Missouri and Indiana, like, we went to a bunch

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of different places, and we never saw bears.

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Speaker 3: So it was a lot of deer and farm ag land.

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Sure they were there. Again, I know that there were

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bears in Florida.

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Speaker 2: But had no idea of the amount of populations until

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I started working there.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah, And did you always know that you

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wanted to work with wildlife or was that a thing

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that kind of just popped up for you like an opportunity.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I had no idea.

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Speaker 2: So when I lived in Michigan, we did archery hunted

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and we knew about we gun hunted, but it was

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a lot of private areas, right, so we didn't really

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know public land. So that was really new to me

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coming to Montana.

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Speaker 3: And then it.

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Speaker 2: Was all ag where I grew up, so it was

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a really small town and I knew there were game wardens.

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Knew you had to get a license obviously, I got

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a license, I got my hunter Safety had no idea

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you could be wildlife biologists, had no idea, that's a

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realm you could take. When I talked to my student council,

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that was never like a thing that went on. So

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when I came to Montana and started hunting elk and

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really getting out in the woods and talking to different people,

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I was like, what's the Forest Service?

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Speaker 3: I had no idea, you know, what's Bureau of Land Management.

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Speaker 2: So I learned all that, and so when I came out,

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I initially started off college at Carol and I ended

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up dropping out. It just wasn't the right fit for me.

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But I started off as a teacher, and then over

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four years I spent I went to the tech school

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and just got an associates in accounting because I just

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didn't know what I wanted to do. And after hunting

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and being out in the woods and being on public

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land and learning and talking to game mortens and different people,

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I'm like, you're gonna be.

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Speaker 3: A wild life pologist. Oh that's me.

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Speaker 1: That is where I want to go.

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Speaker 2: So I ended up going to Oregon State actually to

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get my degree because I was like, what if I

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changed my mind again, I should probably go somewhere where

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they have everything and anything. So I ended up going

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to Oregon State and that's actually where I get my

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wildlife degree.

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Speaker 1: That's not a bad place to get it. That sounds

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so great.

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Speaker 3: It was great.

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Speaker 2: I loved Cornallis and a ton of black bears there,

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so that's really where I got a ton of like

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black beery experience.

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Speaker 3: I was working on a project not for black bears.

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Speaker 2: It was for Pine Martin, but we were constantly have

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black bears getting into our bait and they were just

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huge and they're like those coastal bears. It was really

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neat experience.

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Speaker 1: So nice. So black bears or grizzlies, like any type

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of bear, it's not like you had a love for

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them necessarily growing up. So did I'm assuming you just

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never pictured yourself like as a bear biologist.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it never really crossed my mind.

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Speaker 2: So when I was sixteen, I did go on a

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bear hunt with my dad and we went up to Manitoba.

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So that was kind of like my first exposure with bears,

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and so we had a little bit of that and

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we were up in the tree stand and it was

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really crazy to watch these bears interact with each other,

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the females chasing off males and protecting their cubs, and

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so I really learned about bear behavior and I was like, oh, man,

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bears are pretty cool, Like this is awesome watching them

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like really use their throat and like grunts and the

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noises and the hupping and the climbing of trees. Then

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I moved on and was going through other stuff and

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like I'm a big white tail person, like white obviously

250
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I grew up on white tail when I initially thought,

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you know, even moving to Montana, I was like, oh,

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bears are really cool, but you know, I really like

253
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ulits and yeah, and then I just started getting more

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into the degree. And I when I started off college

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at Oregon State, I was always getting a job, like

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I was making sure to.

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Speaker 3: Internship, volunteer whatever I could do.

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Speaker 2: So I got a variety of experience, and I just

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got more and more interested in bears, especially along the coast.

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It was so interesting to watch him break into our

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baits and then be also be frustrated by getting like

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cool pictures of them, and it just I feel like

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it started to grow. And I actually called, you know,

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you take that class where you're like Oh, they have to.

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They want to know what are you interested in, So

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call some people they might be interested who have that career.

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Speaker 3: And I was like, bears are pretty cool.

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Speaker 2: And I wanted to get back to a Montana eventually,

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and I was I just googled.

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Speaker 3: I was like, bear biologists in Montana? Is that a thing?

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Speaker 2: And they pulled up the bear manager page and there

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was one female on there and I clicked her name

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and called her up and I was like, all right,

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and she is really what kicked off my strong interest

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in bear management, bear conflicts working with bears. She also

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worked in Florida, worked in the same area, so we

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had a lot of different connections obviously throughout the years.

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And she's been a great mentor of mine. So she

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is what really kicked it off. Oh that is so cool.

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Speaker 1: I was going to ask you, like, what it was

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like going to Montana as a woman trying to be

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a biologist, because I know it's not always super friendly us.

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Speaker 2: Yes, I've been busting my butt for twelve years whatever,

284
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it's been so long, and not just in Montana, to

285
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be honest, Florida, a lot.

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Speaker 3: Of the states.

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Speaker 2: It's still a little difficult and it depends on where

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you go. You know, it's definitely getting better and it's

289
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getting a little easier, but there's just things that I

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think that we can't change, and that is what it

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is like, Throw me the challenge, bring it out the hell.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: All right, So speaking of let's get into how your

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career started. So what were some of the jobs that

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you had once you left college with your degree.

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Speaker 2: So while I was in college, I started working for

297
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Oregon Apertmano's Fish Wildlife, which was super awesome. So I

298
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was doing some ungulate captures, I was monitoring, you know,

299
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I worked on one of their management areas that are

300
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owned by the state, so that was really cool.

301
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Speaker 3: So I had a ton of exposure literally during college.

302
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Speaker 2: And then when I got out of college, my first

303
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wildlife gig, I guess first one outside of college was

304
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with Montana Fish Wildlife and Parks and the university and

305
00:15:25,639 --> 00:15:29,720
they were doing a study on elk calves and so

306
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it was just a big neonate study and so I

307
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got to help do a little bit of capture of

308
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the calves and then fly and monitor it and go

309
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in and look for callers and do knee cropsies, which

310
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I love knee cropsies are so interesting because you never.

311
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Speaker 3: Know where you're going in.

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Speaker 2: And you're like, Okay, what's gonna be there? Is it

313
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going to be a full elk? Is it going to

314
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be a half elk? And then also making sure there's

315
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nothing there still eating it as you go in.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, So I started. I was in Montana. I

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was again a lot of six temporary seasonal position. I

319
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did that for about ten years, a lot of temporary seasonal.

320
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So I had that gig, and then I went to

321
00:16:05,480 --> 00:16:07,519
Missouri and I did some white tail work there. We

322
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were capturing white tails, which again kind of back in.

323
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Speaker 3: My realm right, was super awesome.

324
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Speaker 2: Then I went down to Florida to do black bear

325
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research and then again capturing. We had cubs, we were

326
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capturing the females, were putting little tiny collars on the cubs,

327
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and then I was monitoring.

328
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Speaker 3: Them doing neath cropsies, which was crazy.

329
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Speaker 1: In Florida, Well I can't imagine.

330
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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, it was so interesting the things you

331
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had to be aware of compared to like like snakes.

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Speaker 3: And gators everything.

333
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Speaker 2: I was like, oh, gator wouldn't be here, Oh no,

334
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there goes one right across the sand. We were like, Okay,

335
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I don't know anything about Florida, but it was awesome.

336
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Speaker 3: It was such an experience.

337
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Speaker 2: And from Florida I went to Idaho and Idaho I

338
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was doing again ungulate stuff. I was helping out a

339
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little bit with bear stuff here and there, helped like

340
00:16:53,759 --> 00:16:55,799
check in a lot of their game animals. So my

341
00:16:56,000 --> 00:17:00,279
time was during the fall, helped assist with some captures, data,

342
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just a variety of different things, a lot of in

343
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the field which I allowed to get in, boots on

344
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the ground, eat crapsies, checking animal and working with people, right,

345
00:17:08,839 --> 00:17:10,400
that's a big part of it. So being able to

346
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like hear hunter stories and talk to them about their

347
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harvest that fall was always cool. So from Idaho, then

348
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I went to Montana and I did my week there

349
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after yeah, my little incident, and then I went back

350
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to Idaho that fall, and then I went to Florida

351
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for another year. Oh Man, and then Montana and then

352
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Idaho and then Idaho.

353
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Speaker 3: Yeah, so I did Idaho for about five years.

354
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Speaker 2: So I did like five stints, right, so five with

355
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Idaho fishing game.

356
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Speaker 3: I really liked Idaho fishing game.

357
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Speaker 2: I worked in the boising Ampa area and then my

358
00:17:42,319 --> 00:17:44,599
last year was up in the Paniandle and they were.

359
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Speaker 3: Really kicking off their bear management program.

360
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Speaker 2: They had a like a bear game warden there, but

361
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they didn't have a biologist. They had a biologist previously,

362
00:17:53,359 --> 00:17:55,680
I didn't really have a management person or somebody up

363
00:17:55,720 --> 00:17:57,359
in that area, so they were really trying to fill

364
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in since grizzly bears were moving over. And yeah, yeah,

365
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so it's really, like I said, a lot of travel.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I know, so before we get into your incident.

367
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So I feel like this is like the classic career

368
00:18:11,079 --> 00:18:13,200
path for a wildlife biologist that not a lot of

369
00:18:13,240 --> 00:18:16,160
people know about, like the hopping from seasonal to seasonal position.

370
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So can you just explain what that process is like,

371
00:18:20,240 --> 00:18:22,880
going from one seasonal in one state to like hop

372
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into another like temporary job in another state, Like how

373
00:18:26,559 --> 00:18:28,400
do you manage your life like that?

374
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Speaker 2: Yes, I'm really fortunate to have two really great parents,

375
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So I will say that dogs were not a good.

376
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Speaker 3: Thing to travel with.

377
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Speaker 2: They're amazing, they're great to travel with, but doing that

378
00:18:39,640 --> 00:18:42,400
was not always ideal because I could not always have them.

379
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Speaker 3: So that was probably the toughest part.

380
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Speaker 2: At a yell on a chocolate lab and when I

381
00:18:45,880 --> 00:18:47,519
took them to Oregon, it was great, but then they

382
00:18:47,519 --> 00:18:49,640
had to do a lot of time with Grandma and Grandpas.

383
00:18:49,640 --> 00:18:52,519
I was really fortunate to that too, where I had

384
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a place where I could store all my stuff and

385
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didn't have to worry about it.

386
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Speaker 3: Personally. I loved it.

387
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Speaker 2: So twenty twenty two, I got a permanent job with

388
00:19:01,319 --> 00:19:06,599
US Fishal Wildlife Service and I was there for a

389
00:19:06,680 --> 00:19:08,559
year and then two year I was like, all right,

390
00:19:08,599 --> 00:19:09,599
this is getting a little.

391
00:19:09,440 --> 00:19:10,880
Speaker 3: Too permanent for me.

392
00:19:11,160 --> 00:19:14,400
Speaker 2: Really, yeah, I got so used to temporary seasonal jobs,

393
00:19:14,400 --> 00:19:17,680
and that's actually my fiance was like, cemented my fee, right,

394
00:19:17,880 --> 00:19:19,240
those are on the ground.

395
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Speaker 3: And I'm stuck because I'm like, what about this job.

396
00:19:20,640 --> 00:19:22,640
He's like, no, we're not traveling.

397
00:19:22,759 --> 00:19:24,960
Speaker 2: I don't want to because we did the long distance

398
00:19:25,000 --> 00:19:27,039
when I went to Boise and he's like, I'm not

399
00:19:27,079 --> 00:19:29,319
doing it, even if it's in Montana, I don't want

400
00:19:29,319 --> 00:19:29,759
to do it.

401
00:19:29,880 --> 00:19:31,359
Speaker 3: So yeah, but I absolutely loved it.

402
00:19:31,319 --> 00:19:33,200
Speaker 2: Because I got to meet new people and I was

403
00:19:33,359 --> 00:19:36,000
dealing with different stuff every time, or even when I

404
00:19:36,039 --> 00:19:38,000
went back to Idaho Fishing Game. I would go back

405
00:19:38,039 --> 00:19:40,119
and they would give me new projects and I was

406
00:19:40,119 --> 00:19:44,039
like moving up in that aspect of being a wildlife biologist, right,

407
00:19:44,079 --> 00:19:46,960
So I was a technician and I would get moved

408
00:19:47,000 --> 00:19:48,960
up into these spots to where they were trying to

409
00:19:48,960 --> 00:19:53,039
help me become a permanent wildlife biologist eventually. So I

410
00:19:53,079 --> 00:19:55,920
was really fortunate and I believe that and this is

411
00:19:55,960 --> 00:19:58,559
just me like, to be a good wildlife biologist, having.

412
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Speaker 3: Variety is really key. I've done some habitat work.

413
00:20:02,160 --> 00:20:05,440
Speaker 2: I've done, like you said, the basic data jury stuff

414
00:20:05,480 --> 00:20:09,000
and the capture and the ungulates just and the predators everything.

415
00:20:09,039 --> 00:20:12,759
Having that variety of experience is really important, like I said,

416
00:20:12,759 --> 00:20:15,240
for me to be a good wildlife biologist and really

417
00:20:15,400 --> 00:20:19,720
understand all the aspects of it and understand hunting versus

418
00:20:19,759 --> 00:20:22,799
folks who don't like hunting or habitat loss and disease.

419
00:20:23,359 --> 00:20:25,680
Speaker 3: And then working with the public is also really key.

420
00:20:25,759 --> 00:20:27,039
It's very very important.

421
00:20:27,079 --> 00:20:29,960
Speaker 2: I mean, no matter if you're a researcher or you're

422
00:20:30,000 --> 00:20:31,240
just a biologist, in some.

423
00:20:31,400 --> 00:20:35,079
Speaker 3: Way, you are working with the public. That's just what's part.

424
00:20:35,119 --> 00:20:37,599
Speaker 2: It's part of the job, and it's important piece part

425
00:20:37,599 --> 00:20:39,640
of the job because we want the public to care

426
00:20:39,720 --> 00:20:44,519
about certain things so that way species and habitat stick around, So, yeah,

427
00:20:44,559 --> 00:20:46,519
I absolutely loved it, and I do miss it.

428
00:20:46,599 --> 00:20:47,599
Speaker 3: I get a little anthy.

429
00:20:48,119 --> 00:20:50,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I totally get that feeling. I also feel

430
00:20:51,000 --> 00:20:53,559
like when you are in a wild life biology program,

431
00:20:53,640 --> 00:20:55,880
they don't tell you that so much of your job

432
00:20:55,960 --> 00:20:58,400
is dealing with people, and no one prepares you for

433
00:20:58,480 --> 00:21:00,839
how to deal with people who are like really personally

434
00:21:00,839 --> 00:21:06,599
mad at you about what happened. Man. All right, so

435
00:21:07,400 --> 00:21:11,400
let's dive a little deeper into an incident that you

436
00:21:11,599 --> 00:21:14,519
had with the bear. So what was the job you

437
00:21:14,559 --> 00:21:18,240
were doing? Where were you set the scene?

438
00:21:18,400 --> 00:21:21,519
Speaker 2: So I was working for US Special Wildlife Service through

439
00:21:21,519 --> 00:21:24,680
the University of Montana, so they have some dollars in

440
00:21:24,759 --> 00:21:28,640
research programs that go through there. I was in Libby, Montana,

441
00:21:28,680 --> 00:21:33,559
so it would have been twenty eighteen, and I was

442
00:21:33,640 --> 00:21:37,240
working on it, ironically, on a grizzly bear project. And

443
00:21:37,319 --> 00:21:40,720
I was just out collecting hair off of barbed wire

444
00:21:40,960 --> 00:21:43,920
and that's for DNA. We're just trying to get an

445
00:21:43,960 --> 00:21:46,799
idea of population and just yeah, I get an idea

446
00:21:46,799 --> 00:21:47,799
of how many bears.

447
00:21:47,519 --> 00:21:48,039
Speaker 3: Are out there.

448
00:21:48,119 --> 00:21:50,920
Speaker 2: So yep, literally just collect an hair off of barbedier.

449
00:21:51,160 --> 00:21:53,559
I was also setting up corrals, so a corral is

450
00:21:54,240 --> 00:21:57,960
basically like you have four trees and you put a string.

451
00:21:57,640 --> 00:21:59,839
Speaker 3: Of barbed wire around it at about knee height.

452
00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:02,839
Speaker 2: You throw out the camera and you put this basic

453
00:22:03,160 --> 00:22:06,400
smoothie in there, right, So it's a blood smoothie, and

454
00:22:06,480 --> 00:22:09,640
you just put some brush in there and some mult

455
00:22:09,799 --> 00:22:12,000
or whatever is on the ground that you can throw together,

456
00:22:12,079 --> 00:22:14,680
and some sticks and you pour this blood smoothie over there,

457
00:22:14,880 --> 00:22:16,720
and it's just the scent lure. So it's just to

458
00:22:16,759 --> 00:22:19,240
get them in so that way it collects their hair

459
00:22:19,319 --> 00:22:20,720
and we get some photos of them.

460
00:22:21,039 --> 00:22:24,960
Speaker 1: So not working hands on per se, just no collecting sticks.

461
00:22:25,039 --> 00:22:26,920
And I'm assuming you were like in the middle of

462
00:22:26,920 --> 00:22:29,359
the woods, like off the beaten path doing this kind

463
00:22:29,400 --> 00:22:31,000
of work, right, Yeah.

464
00:22:31,079 --> 00:22:33,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, So a lot of the trails and the areas

465
00:22:33,920 --> 00:22:37,000
were not really trails. Some of them were really really

466
00:22:37,000 --> 00:22:39,039
old for service road, so I'd have to do some

467
00:22:39,160 --> 00:22:43,079
chain selling even to get back to my starting point.

468
00:22:43,240 --> 00:22:44,960
Speaker 3: It's on the one area that I was in.

469
00:22:45,039 --> 00:22:48,279
Speaker 2: You know, I was able to get pretty far back

470
00:22:48,319 --> 00:22:50,920
there and then where I had my encounter was about

471
00:22:50,960 --> 00:22:53,359
two miles up, So I was about two miles in

472
00:22:53,640 --> 00:22:56,279
when I had this encounter, and the whole way up.

473
00:22:56,279 --> 00:22:58,359
Speaker 3: It's again it's an old for service road. They even

474
00:22:58,440 --> 00:22:58,640
use it.

475
00:22:58,680 --> 00:23:00,599
Speaker 2: So it's like true tree tree, tree, treat, retreat, tree,

476
00:23:00,680 --> 00:23:02,079
and then you have a creek and then it's some

477
00:23:02,240 --> 00:23:06,079
open and some not you know. So yeah, rugged, I

478
00:23:06,079 --> 00:23:08,880
guess we could call it rugged one which loved being

479
00:23:08,880 --> 00:23:09,279
out there.

480
00:23:09,319 --> 00:23:09,839
Speaker 3: It's great.

481
00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:12,519
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, No, it's definitely like I feel like, why

482
00:23:12,559 --> 00:23:14,039
we all get in the field to be in the

483
00:23:14,079 --> 00:23:17,079
middle of the woods like that. But did you going

484
00:23:17,160 --> 00:23:19,240
into this job, did they give you any sort of

485
00:23:19,559 --> 00:23:22,200
like preparation on like, hey, if you encounter a grizzly,

486
00:23:22,279 --> 00:23:23,279
here's what you should do.

487
00:23:24,160 --> 00:23:25,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, So we got training.

488
00:23:25,680 --> 00:23:28,119
Speaker 2: We had like three or four days of training, and

489
00:23:28,160 --> 00:23:31,400
so it was jainsaw training, your bear ID, your bear

490
00:23:31,440 --> 00:23:36,319
Spurray training and going over all that hr new employee

491
00:23:36,359 --> 00:23:38,640
documents and all that. So that was definitely a part

492
00:23:38,640 --> 00:23:40,920
of their the bear ID and what to do if

493
00:23:40,960 --> 00:23:42,240
you encountered a bear?

494
00:23:42,799 --> 00:23:48,480
Speaker 1: Gotcha, so you encountered a bear? To put it plainly,

495
00:23:49,039 --> 00:23:50,440
what happened.

496
00:23:51,599 --> 00:23:54,480
Speaker 2: So I was walking down this trail, so it was

497
00:23:54,640 --> 00:23:58,319
May seventeenth. It was about around I don't know, nine

498
00:23:58,359 --> 00:24:00,440
thirty ten in the morning, and again I was collecting

499
00:24:00,480 --> 00:24:03,240
hair off of barbed wire. There was snow on the ground,

500
00:24:03,400 --> 00:24:07,240
it was raining. The creek way below us was fairly.

501
00:24:06,960 --> 00:24:08,079
Speaker 3: Loud right, it was running.

502
00:24:08,119 --> 00:24:09,559
Speaker 2: There was water going through it, so a lot of

503
00:24:09,599 --> 00:24:12,440
ambient noises all around. I came into this kind of

504
00:24:12,519 --> 00:24:16,640
semi right open avalanche shoot. It was brushy and different stuff.

505
00:24:16,680 --> 00:24:19,200
But I was when you're calling, you're out there, you're

506
00:24:19,240 --> 00:24:22,160
making noise. Hey bear, hey beary clapping your hands.

507
00:24:21,839 --> 00:24:22,759
Speaker 3: Making a ton of noise.

508
00:24:23,440 --> 00:24:25,799
Speaker 2: I when I teach bear safety, I always tell folks

509
00:24:25,880 --> 00:24:30,279
make sure you stop listen to see if anything's coming right,

510
00:24:30,279 --> 00:24:32,599
because after you're yelling, I can't always hear everything.

511
00:24:33,039 --> 00:24:35,599
Speaker 3: So I got into this open avalanche shoot and I stopped.

512
00:24:35,240 --> 00:24:37,559
Speaker 2: And was looking around and listening, and all of a

513
00:24:37,599 --> 00:24:40,319
sudden I heard oh, And I turned to my left

514
00:24:40,359 --> 00:24:43,279
and they measured it. He was eleven or twelve feet

515
00:24:43,319 --> 00:24:45,200
from me on my left hand side.

516
00:24:45,720 --> 00:24:46,160
Speaker 3: I turned.

517
00:24:46,160 --> 00:24:49,400
Speaker 2: I knew immediately he was a crisly bear, and I

518
00:24:49,400 --> 00:24:51,400
saw I had bear spray right here on my chest.

519
00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:53,519
Speaker 3: So I had a pack on bear spray right on

520
00:24:53,599 --> 00:24:54,920
my chest. And I just.

521
00:24:54,960 --> 00:24:57,319
Speaker 2: Turned to the right and jogged a little and jumped

522
00:24:57,440 --> 00:24:59,160
went down to the ground. So I kind of sat

523
00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:02,359
in the feetal PiZZ on the ground. At that point,

524
00:25:02,400 --> 00:25:04,119
he was already in my bag. He had smacked my

525
00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:06,559
back and claught up my arm. His entire body was

526
00:25:06,559 --> 00:25:08,680
on top of me, and I was just like sitting there,

527
00:25:08,839 --> 00:25:12,279
hunched over, just slowly trying to get that bear spray out.

528
00:25:12,640 --> 00:25:12,880
Speaker 1: Yeah.

529
00:25:12,920 --> 00:25:14,759
Speaker 2: I got the bear spray out. I took off the

530
00:25:14,839 --> 00:25:17,119
cap and he reached down. He bit down on my

531
00:25:17,240 --> 00:25:19,519
skull and I reached over my left arm and sprayed

532
00:25:19,599 --> 00:25:22,240
him and he took off film.

533
00:25:22,480 --> 00:25:25,359
Speaker 1: Wow. Okay, so the wa thing you just described that

534
00:25:25,880 --> 00:25:29,160
you heard the noise immediately knew that it was coming

535
00:25:29,640 --> 00:25:32,640
at you like that. You had no time to like assess,

536
00:25:32,759 --> 00:25:33,799
You just like dropped down.

537
00:25:34,319 --> 00:25:36,319
Speaker 3: Yeah, he was right there, So I saw him.

538
00:25:36,480 --> 00:25:37,039
Speaker 1: Oh man.

539
00:25:37,119 --> 00:25:39,119
Speaker 2: So yeah, I turned to the left and he was

540
00:25:39,480 --> 00:25:42,599
I could literally see his whole body, like I can

541
00:25:42,680 --> 00:25:45,880
remember every piece of him. Yeah, And I just turned

542
00:25:45,920 --> 00:25:48,160
to the right and just dropped down the ground because

543
00:25:48,200 --> 00:25:50,400
I was That was My first initial thought was like,

544
00:25:50,720 --> 00:25:53,079
dug a little go just wrap your butt down to

545
00:25:53,119 --> 00:25:55,960
the ground. And of course, like he made that defensive

546
00:25:56,079 --> 00:25:57,960
mode right where he's like the huffing.

547
00:25:58,079 --> 00:26:00,240
Speaker 3: He's like, oh right, what are you what are you

548
00:26:00,319 --> 00:26:00,960
doing here?

549
00:26:01,559 --> 00:26:04,279
Speaker 2: And then I moved, So his initial reaction is to

550
00:26:04,319 --> 00:26:08,319
become defensive, right, and so he charges after me, you know,

551
00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:10,480
he smacks me, and then he's on top of me,

552
00:26:10,960 --> 00:26:13,319
and he's smelling like what is this right? And of

553
00:26:13,319 --> 00:26:14,920
course I had an apple on the top part of

554
00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:17,480
my pack and I have that blood smoothie in my pack,

555
00:26:17,559 --> 00:26:20,640
so he's like sniffing, and luckily the bite to my

556
00:26:20,680 --> 00:26:23,480
head was very I'm going to use the word light

557
00:26:23,519 --> 00:26:25,200
because I don't know what other It was very light.

558
00:26:25,759 --> 00:26:28,519
It wasn't like a bite and rip again because it

559
00:26:28,559 --> 00:26:29,759
was very defensive.

560
00:26:30,319 --> 00:26:33,359
Speaker 3: He felt like maybe my head was pulsaying like something

561
00:26:33,519 --> 00:26:35,759
was moving, and so that's what they do. So when

562
00:26:35,759 --> 00:26:38,319
you're still moving, the bite bite, bite, it's the.

563
00:26:38,279 --> 00:26:42,000
Speaker 2: Defensive reaction to try and get to disengage, right, try

564
00:26:42,039 --> 00:26:45,200
and get whatever they've got to stop moving. And so

565
00:26:45,240 --> 00:26:47,440
he just happened to bite down on my skull and

566
00:26:47,480 --> 00:26:49,799
then I sprayed over my left arm and he took off.

567
00:26:49,960 --> 00:26:54,359
Speaker 1: Oh man, that sounds like the most ideal circumstance for

568
00:26:54,440 --> 00:26:57,079
being attacked by a grizzly, Like the fact that he

569
00:26:58,119 --> 00:27:00,920
like softly bit down on you. I mean, so let's

570
00:27:00,920 --> 00:27:03,279
talk about what kind of bear it was. So it

571
00:27:03,319 --> 00:27:05,960
was a grizzly, a male grizzly. How do you know

572
00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:06,759
how big he was?

573
00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:08,319
Speaker 3: Yeah, So the only.

574
00:27:08,119 --> 00:27:10,319
Speaker 2: Reason that I know that he was a male grizzly

575
00:27:10,799 --> 00:27:13,880
is because when they so anytime somebody gets attacked by

576
00:27:14,119 --> 00:27:17,720
a bear, they do a huge investigation, right, so there's

577
00:27:17,799 --> 00:27:21,559
law enforcement or police, others, f WP biologists like a

578
00:27:21,559 --> 00:27:24,440
bunch of people go up they do an investigation. One.

579
00:27:24,440 --> 00:27:26,279
They're looking to see if the bear is still up there,

580
00:27:26,680 --> 00:27:29,480
to see if there's a carcass around, really to assess

581
00:27:29,519 --> 00:27:30,759
the scene.

582
00:27:30,839 --> 00:27:32,759
Speaker 3: And so they went up there and they were.

583
00:27:32,640 --> 00:27:35,240
Speaker 2: Able to collect hair either off the ground and there

584
00:27:35,319 --> 00:27:36,759
might I can't remember if there was hair on my

585
00:27:36,839 --> 00:27:39,599
pack as well, but they were able to collect some

586
00:27:39,720 --> 00:27:42,119
hair and they figured out who it was because he

587
00:27:42,160 --> 00:27:45,720
had been previously collared. So he was an original research

588
00:27:45,799 --> 00:27:47,799
bear in two thousand and I think it was two

589
00:27:47,799 --> 00:27:50,319
thousand and five, which is pretty cool. And again, so

590
00:27:50,400 --> 00:27:53,799
he's had no encounters with people aside from that research one.

591
00:27:53,839 --> 00:27:56,880
And his collar I think they said maybe lasted a

592
00:27:57,000 --> 00:27:59,599
year and then it fell off or yeah, he ended

593
00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:01,720
up breaking it off. So that's how we knew it

594
00:28:01,759 --> 00:28:04,079
was a male. I mean my rough estimate, he had

595
00:28:04,119 --> 00:28:06,119
to have least been four hundred and four hundred and

596
00:28:06,160 --> 00:28:07,519
fifty pounds, and.

597
00:28:07,480 --> 00:28:08,880
Speaker 3: That was during the spring. I mean he was a

598
00:28:08,880 --> 00:28:09,319
big bear.

599
00:28:09,720 --> 00:28:14,000
Speaker 1: Oh my god. So after this happened, yespray him he leaves.

600
00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:16,440
What do you do after that? Did you stay for

601
00:28:16,480 --> 00:28:17,839
a while? Do you immediately book it?

602
00:28:18,559 --> 00:28:18,799
Speaker 3: Yeah?

603
00:28:18,839 --> 00:28:22,359
Speaker 2: So I sat there for a few seconds for I

604
00:28:22,359 --> 00:28:24,119
don't know how long I sat there for, but I

605
00:28:24,200 --> 00:28:27,119
just was trying to listen. So when he bit down

606
00:28:27,160 --> 00:28:29,880
on my skull, you know, I say lightly, he cracked

607
00:28:29,880 --> 00:28:32,279
open my skull. He cracked open about three quarters of

608
00:28:32,400 --> 00:28:35,519
my skull. Yeah, and I actually lost all my hearing

609
00:28:35,559 --> 00:28:37,240
in my left ear. So at this point, like my

610
00:28:37,319 --> 00:28:40,559
ears ringing, I'm sitting there and I'm like, did he leave?

611
00:28:40,640 --> 00:28:42,880
Did he actually leave? I felt him like his whole

612
00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:45,240
weight come off me. Yeah, which way he went?

613
00:28:45,400 --> 00:28:46,480
Speaker 3: I had no idea, So.

614
00:28:46,480 --> 00:28:49,960
Speaker 2: I just turned and looked at both sides, picked up

615
00:28:49,960 --> 00:28:52,079
my stuff that fell out of my pack or whatever,

616
00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:53,559
and I had an inReach.

617
00:28:53,799 --> 00:28:58,359
Speaker 3: So it's a GPS satellite phone. It's on a phone.

618
00:28:58,400 --> 00:29:00,880
Speaker 1: It's when he urgency contact.

619
00:29:01,759 --> 00:29:03,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, and you can text off it you can

620
00:29:03,480 --> 00:29:06,319
take locations like now they're so advanced now, because we

621
00:29:06,400 --> 00:29:08,440
used to just have the spot ones where you could

622
00:29:08,519 --> 00:29:11,319
only hit so many things. Now they're so advanced, and

623
00:29:11,359 --> 00:29:13,680
so the inn reach was really handy. But I digged

624
00:29:13,759 --> 00:29:14,960
out and I was like, I'm.

625
00:29:14,920 --> 00:29:17,880
Speaker 3: Okay, and this is like my fourth day on the job.

626
00:29:18,440 --> 00:29:20,319
Do I have to hit the SOS button?

627
00:29:20,640 --> 00:29:23,000
Speaker 2: Which is just my personality right, because I'm like, I

628
00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:24,480
can see I'm good.

629
00:29:26,079 --> 00:29:27,920
Speaker 3: But I did hit the SOS button because I was like,

630
00:29:27,920 --> 00:29:30,480
what if I'm not good and I pass out right?

631
00:29:30,519 --> 00:29:32,759
Speaker 2: Because I'm pretty sure he bit down in my head,

632
00:29:32,799 --> 00:29:35,279
but I wasn't one hundred percent sure. All your adrenaline,

633
00:29:35,359 --> 00:29:38,599
Like I heard something crunch and I couldn't hear it

634
00:29:38,599 --> 00:29:40,480
in my ears. There's just so much going on and

635
00:29:40,559 --> 00:29:42,720
my goal was to get out of there. So I

636
00:29:42,759 --> 00:29:44,720
hit the SOS button and then I was like, well,

637
00:29:44,720 --> 00:29:47,599
I'm okay, I'm gonna start walking and I just started shrudging.

638
00:29:48,160 --> 00:29:50,839
At this point, I'm yelling, I'm making a ton of noise.

639
00:29:51,119 --> 00:29:53,920
I have the safety off my bear spray, which we

640
00:29:54,000 --> 00:29:56,640
obviously we don't recommend people to do, but in this case,

641
00:29:56,920 --> 00:29:58,400
I did no idea what I was going to run

642
00:29:58,400 --> 00:30:01,480
into yep, but I had like a little bit left

643
00:30:01,519 --> 00:30:03,240
in my can, Like I had hardly.

644
00:30:02,920 --> 00:30:04,440
Speaker 3: Anything left in that can.

645
00:30:04,640 --> 00:30:05,200
Speaker 1: Oh man.

646
00:30:05,480 --> 00:30:07,519
Speaker 3: So this is again when I get baar safety talk.

647
00:30:07,559 --> 00:30:10,480
Speaker 2: So I always encourage people, especially if you're out by yourself,

648
00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:12,720
to carry two cans because if you ever have to

649
00:30:12,799 --> 00:30:14,960
use that first, can you at least have another one

650
00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:16,480
on if you're gonna hike yourself out.

651
00:30:16,519 --> 00:30:18,720
Speaker 3: If you can't hike yourself out, Yeah, because I had

652
00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:20,000
no idea if I was going to run into a

653
00:30:20,039 --> 00:30:22,920
moose or a black bear or him. I don't know

654
00:30:22,960 --> 00:30:23,720
what way he went.

655
00:30:24,319 --> 00:30:27,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, So I was just yelling and trudging out, and

656
00:30:27,960 --> 00:30:30,079
it was about two miles back to my truck, and

657
00:30:30,119 --> 00:30:32,680
I hiked myself back to my truck, got in my

658
00:30:32,720 --> 00:30:35,599
truck and was like, Okay, I can drive. I'm gonna

659
00:30:35,599 --> 00:30:38,599
go try to find somebody. It's bear season, so I

660
00:30:38,640 --> 00:30:41,359
knew there had to have been people out hunting. So

661
00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:43,440
I got in my truck, get throw it in reverse

662
00:30:43,519 --> 00:30:47,480
and started going and was just like hogging my horn,

663
00:30:47,519 --> 00:30:49,440
making a ton of noise. And there's like a main

664
00:30:50,119 --> 00:30:51,880
it's still way back there, but it was just like

665
00:30:51,920 --> 00:30:53,920
a main dirt road that a lot of people travel

666
00:30:53,960 --> 00:30:55,480
and I hit that and I was lead foot to

667
00:30:55,519 --> 00:30:59,200
the ground, like trying to find the next person, any person.

668
00:31:00,039 --> 00:31:02,440
And I found somebody that I was like up his button.

669
00:31:02,599 --> 00:31:05,440
Finally got him to pull over and I walked up

670
00:31:05,440 --> 00:31:07,799
to him and was like, excuse me, and he just turns.

671
00:31:07,480 --> 00:31:09,519
Speaker 3: And lux says, oh, dear. I was like, I got

672
00:31:09,519 --> 00:31:12,880
a tag by bear, can ta me the hospital? And

673
00:31:12,960 --> 00:31:16,279
he had this big dog and his truck with him,

674
00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:17,480
and he was.

675
00:31:17,440 --> 00:31:19,079
Speaker 2: So cute and the dogs like, hey, what's going on

676
00:31:19,079 --> 00:31:21,680
on town? And the guy's like, yeah, totally. So I,

677
00:31:21,720 --> 00:31:23,440
you know, took my keys out of my truck or

678
00:31:23,440 --> 00:31:26,119
whatever I did, locked it all up, got in his vehicle,

679
00:31:26,119 --> 00:31:27,319
and the dog's like, hey, how's it going.

680
00:31:27,359 --> 00:31:28,640
Speaker 3: And I'm a dog person, so I'm like, oh, I

681
00:31:28,720 --> 00:31:29,640
want to do is touch you?

682
00:31:30,160 --> 00:31:34,559
Speaker 2: Yeah, And luckily he was a retired veteran, so he

683
00:31:34,640 --> 00:31:35,720
was so lucky.

684
00:31:36,119 --> 00:31:36,319
Speaker 1: Yeah.

685
00:31:36,319 --> 00:31:38,359
Speaker 2: Obviously he knew I did not look in a mirror,

686
00:31:38,440 --> 00:31:41,880
so I had no idea what my injuries were. So

687
00:31:41,960 --> 00:31:43,480
he was you could tell he was talking to me

688
00:31:43,559 --> 00:31:45,440
and make sure I don't pass out. When we ended

689
00:31:45,519 --> 00:31:48,160
up running into the ambulance and I don't know how far.

690
00:31:48,039 --> 00:31:50,440
Speaker 3: We'd gone a couple mile a couple of miles.

691
00:31:50,599 --> 00:31:53,119
Speaker 2: And he like waved him down, and yeah, when they

692
00:31:53,119 --> 00:31:54,200
put me in the ambulance.

693
00:31:54,279 --> 00:31:57,920
Speaker 1: So did the ambulance come because of the SOS that

694
00:31:58,000 --> 00:31:58,960
you called? Oh?

695
00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:00,480
Speaker 3: They did, which was it's crazy.

696
00:32:00,519 --> 00:32:03,160
Speaker 2: So when you hit that SOS button, I started getting

697
00:32:03,200 --> 00:32:04,920
text messages that said are you okay?

698
00:32:04,920 --> 00:32:07,440
Speaker 3: And I was like, no, I'm not okay. Why would

699
00:32:07,440 --> 00:32:08,559
I hit the episode one?

700
00:32:08,680 --> 00:32:12,119
Speaker 2: But so many people hit that button on accident, so

701
00:32:12,160 --> 00:32:14,200
they have to like pin in. So I was like

702
00:32:14,279 --> 00:32:17,359
trying to text while also hauling down the trail like

703
00:32:17,799 --> 00:32:18,559
got baar attack.

704
00:32:18,640 --> 00:32:20,759
Speaker 3: At one point I wrote quack attack.

705
00:32:20,480 --> 00:32:23,480
Speaker 2: And I'm just trying to like send a messages Hello,

706
00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:25,559
get me out of here, because I kept getting this

707
00:32:25,720 --> 00:32:29,720
text message and the signal goes to like a satellite

708
00:32:29,759 --> 00:32:32,400
and then it goes somewhere in Texas and then it

709
00:32:32,440 --> 00:32:33,920
gets sent to our local people.

710
00:32:33,920 --> 00:32:36,000
Speaker 3: It's so weird, or it gets sent to both places.

711
00:32:36,680 --> 00:32:38,240
Speaker 2: When I got out of there, and it was like

712
00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:39,960
a couple of weeks later, when I checked my phone,

713
00:32:39,960 --> 00:32:42,240
I had a message from a gal in Texas and

714
00:32:42,279 --> 00:32:44,759
I've kept it. I have two voicemails, one from the

715
00:32:44,799 --> 00:32:48,319
local ambulance, the local police department, and then one from

716
00:32:48,319 --> 00:32:50,279
the gal in Texas and they're like, well, you saw

717
00:32:50,319 --> 00:32:52,480
that you hit the SOS button. We're just checking to

718
00:32:52,480 --> 00:32:55,839
make sure you're okay. I was like, no, so, yeah,

719
00:32:55,880 --> 00:32:58,920
those are great. I keep those because I think they're funny. Yeah.

720
00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:03,759
Speaker 1: Now that like, you're fine and post attack. Yeah, so

721
00:33:04,440 --> 00:33:06,319
you get to the hospital. So you said that your

722
00:33:06,359 --> 00:33:09,319
skull was cracked. How does that get fixed?

723
00:33:10,200 --> 00:33:11,920
Speaker 3: Yeah? So I actually got life flighted.

724
00:33:11,960 --> 00:33:15,880
Speaker 2: So the ambulance met a helicopter up at actually one

725
00:33:15,920 --> 00:33:17,240
of the local bars that's.

726
00:33:17,119 --> 00:33:20,440
Speaker 3: Right in between like Libby and kalus Bell. Yeah. So

727
00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:22,240
luckily it was like eleven o'clock, so.

728
00:33:22,200 --> 00:33:24,839
Speaker 2: There wasn't a lot of people there, and they threw

729
00:33:24,839 --> 00:33:26,400
me in there, and I remember being so bummed. I

730
00:33:26,440 --> 00:33:29,319
had to take my contact out side a really bad eyesight. Yeah,

731
00:33:29,359 --> 00:33:33,319
and this was like the I hadn't been on a helicopter.

732
00:33:33,559 --> 00:33:36,079
Had I been in a helicopter yet? Maybe one other time.

733
00:33:36,440 --> 00:33:38,839
So it was really bummed because I could not see anything.

734
00:33:38,880 --> 00:33:40,960
So I'm like laying there in this stretcher, I'm like, man,

735
00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:43,319
everything is so blurry. This would be so cool to

736
00:33:43,319 --> 00:33:46,680
see the views right now. So they get me into

737
00:33:46,759 --> 00:33:51,480
the hospital, and they basically took some pieces because it's

738
00:33:51,519 --> 00:33:53,799
on this side. So it starts on this side, and

739
00:33:53,880 --> 00:33:55,799
it goes up here and there's like a spot here,

740
00:33:55,839 --> 00:33:57,480
and then it goes around the backside of my head

741
00:33:57,519 --> 00:34:00,359
and it goes up and down, so this whole left side,

742
00:34:00,640 --> 00:34:02,839
and they basically just kind of like pieced whatever they

743
00:34:02,880 --> 00:34:05,359
could back together and I don't know what it is

744
00:34:05,440 --> 00:34:08,760
exactly in there. I can make it through the airport security,

745
00:34:08,840 --> 00:34:11,159
so I don't go off, so that's good. But they're

746
00:34:11,159 --> 00:34:13,760
like fans and some sort of like screws that are

747
00:34:13,800 --> 00:34:16,239
okay up like in this part and then this part,

748
00:34:16,280 --> 00:34:18,280
and then of course I have a little gap, and

749
00:34:18,280 --> 00:34:21,320
then I have a big gash right up here from

750
00:34:21,360 --> 00:34:23,840
where his you know, the right side of his canine

751
00:34:24,039 --> 00:34:25,880
hit my top part, and they had to shave my

752
00:34:25,920 --> 00:34:28,000
whole head. So I was sitting in the hospital and

753
00:34:28,159 --> 00:34:30,639
really long hair, just like I do now, even longer,

754
00:34:31,519 --> 00:34:33,079
and I'm sitting there. I was like, are you guys

755
00:34:33,119 --> 00:34:34,159
gonna have to shave my head?

756
00:34:34,159 --> 00:34:35,920
Speaker 3: And they're like, we could leave the part that he

757
00:34:35,960 --> 00:34:37,559
didn't get hit. I'm like, oh, so that's gonna be

758
00:34:37,559 --> 00:34:38,159
like a strip.

759
00:34:38,719 --> 00:34:40,199
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, no, save it.

760
00:34:42,039 --> 00:34:43,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, so they completely shaved it.

761
00:34:43,880 --> 00:34:45,559
Speaker 2: Every now and then I'm like, I should shave it

762
00:34:45,599 --> 00:34:47,639
and see what the scars look like. You know, call

763
00:34:47,880 --> 00:34:50,079
until I'm like seventy, and I don't care that much.

764
00:34:51,400 --> 00:34:53,599
Speaker 1: I can imagine, just like, as a woman, I know

765
00:34:53,599 --> 00:34:55,320
what it's like to have your hair fall out or

766
00:34:55,360 --> 00:34:57,840
lose your hair, especially when you have long hair, it

767
00:34:57,840 --> 00:35:01,199
becomes so much a part of the that you see yourself. Yeah,

768
00:35:01,360 --> 00:35:03,400
was that a big This might be a stupid question,

769
00:35:03,440 --> 00:35:05,519
but was that a big part of your recovery where

770
00:35:05,519 --> 00:35:07,039
you were like, God, damn it, Like I just wish

771
00:35:07,079 --> 00:35:10,719
I had my hair back, Yes, especially watching it grow back,

772
00:35:10,800 --> 00:35:12,679
like it was crazy to watch it grow back.

773
00:35:12,719 --> 00:35:14,199
Speaker 2: And I honestly, I feel like I have no room

774
00:35:14,239 --> 00:35:16,400
to talk now with so many folks that get cancer

775
00:35:16,440 --> 00:35:18,559
and lose their hair, and they just shave mine off.

776
00:35:18,559 --> 00:35:20,159
And then it grew back, but it grew back so

777
00:35:20,519 --> 00:35:21,960
dark and like you said, and then it was like

778
00:35:22,039 --> 00:35:25,000
really spiky, and I was wearing bantanas because I didn't

779
00:35:25,039 --> 00:35:26,400
want to see, which I could barely.

780
00:35:26,599 --> 00:35:28,039
Speaker 3: I couldn't wear hats, and.

781
00:35:28,159 --> 00:35:31,519
Speaker 2: Bandanas had to be really light because the whole left

782
00:35:31,519 --> 00:35:33,360
side of my head hurt, and even now I have

783
00:35:33,440 --> 00:35:37,239
a hard time brushing my hair. Sometimes I just can't

784
00:35:37,280 --> 00:35:39,800
sleep on this side. And definitely my headaches tend to

785
00:35:39,840 --> 00:35:41,360
stay on this side now.

786
00:35:41,760 --> 00:35:43,400
Speaker 3: And I was just constantly getting.

787
00:35:43,199 --> 00:35:45,519
Speaker 2: Headaches for like two years every day, like it was

788
00:35:45,599 --> 00:35:48,440
just like a constant battle of pain, and my ear

789
00:35:48,480 --> 00:35:51,880
would ring on a constant basis. And so I finally

790
00:35:51,960 --> 00:35:53,880
got to a point where I'm just so used to

791
00:35:53,960 --> 00:35:55,719
it that it kind of I made her over it,

792
00:35:55,920 --> 00:35:56,519
or it's.

793
00:35:56,360 --> 00:35:57,400
Speaker 3: Calmed down a little bit.

794
00:35:57,760 --> 00:36:00,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, but it still rings like every now and then

795
00:36:00,400 --> 00:36:02,960
it'll just like really pick up, and so that gets

796
00:36:03,039 --> 00:36:03,519
kind of hard.

797
00:36:04,000 --> 00:36:05,039
Speaker 3: Losing my hair was tough.

798
00:36:05,719 --> 00:36:08,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, And so did you get full hearing back in

799
00:36:08,360 --> 00:36:09,000
your left ear?

800
00:36:09,480 --> 00:36:10,559
Speaker 3: Nope, it's gone forever.

801
00:36:11,000 --> 00:36:13,400
Speaker 2: So he actually bit the part that I can't get

802
00:36:13,440 --> 00:36:16,280
a coke clear. They can't do any kind of replacement

803
00:36:16,320 --> 00:36:19,280
for it. So where he bit, he literally bit the

804
00:36:19,360 --> 00:36:21,840
wrong part and there's nothing that can fix it. I've

805
00:36:21,960 --> 00:36:24,880
tried hearing aids and they're okay. If they don't work

806
00:36:24,920 --> 00:36:27,920
at all, I can't locate. So again, I'm an elk hunter.

807
00:36:28,039 --> 00:36:29,840
So when I'm out during bosies and trying to call

808
00:36:29,920 --> 00:36:32,320
an elk or something, and I'm like, oh, it's over there,

809
00:36:32,360 --> 00:36:34,719
and my fancy like it's over there?

810
00:36:35,079 --> 00:36:36,840
Speaker 3: Are you sure? Are you sure?

811
00:36:38,320 --> 00:36:38,400
Speaker 1: So?

812
00:36:38,519 --> 00:36:39,159
Speaker 3: Yeah?

813
00:36:39,239 --> 00:36:41,800
Speaker 1: Well, now the hair question seems stupid. I'm sure you.

814
00:36:41,960 --> 00:36:44,840
Oh no about it was so hard.

815
00:36:44,920 --> 00:36:46,800
Speaker 3: I was like, yeah, I grew all this hair.

816
00:36:46,880 --> 00:36:51,960
Speaker 1: You really got it. It takes so long. Yeah, man.

817
00:36:52,800 --> 00:36:55,159
And also the fact that you said, oh, he just

818
00:36:55,199 --> 00:36:58,800
bit down lightly on my head and years later you're

819
00:36:58,840 --> 00:37:01,760
still having like he aches and you lost your hearing.

820
00:37:02,280 --> 00:37:04,920
That is a crazy amount of damage for just one

821
00:37:05,119 --> 00:37:08,159
quote unquote light bite to your head. That's wild.

822
00:37:10,360 --> 00:37:12,880
Speaker 3: Oh medium should I say? Maybe I should say like

823
00:37:12,920 --> 00:37:13,639
a medium bite.

824
00:37:13,679 --> 00:37:15,199
Speaker 2: I just want to call it feel like he was like,

825
00:37:15,320 --> 00:37:17,719
oh and ripping my skull off, because that's definitely not

826
00:37:17,760 --> 00:37:18,480
what was going on.

827
00:37:19,119 --> 00:37:21,119
Speaker 3: I mean, he might have eventually, but I don't think.

828
00:37:22,039 --> 00:37:24,400
Speaker 1: I love that you were attacked by Grizzly and you

829
00:37:24,400 --> 00:37:25,679
were like, I don't want to make it seem like

830
00:37:25,719 --> 00:37:29,159
more than it was. It was just a light thing.

831
00:37:30,639 --> 00:37:35,519
So let's get into what happened with your situation. So

832
00:37:35,559 --> 00:37:39,159
you were saying it was a defensive attack. You're a

833
00:37:39,199 --> 00:37:44,119
grizzly bear biologist slash bear biologist in general, what could

834
00:37:44,199 --> 00:37:46,239
you I guess that's I don't want to say what

835
00:37:46,280 --> 00:37:48,000
could you have done differently to not be attacked? Because

836
00:37:48,000 --> 00:37:52,320
that sounds shitty, But like, how can people avoid this

837
00:37:52,440 --> 00:37:55,000
kind of situation? Because it sounds like you were doing

838
00:37:55,039 --> 00:37:55,639
everything right?

839
00:37:55,760 --> 00:37:57,239
Speaker 3: You know, I can't say that for sure.

840
00:37:57,519 --> 00:37:59,199
Speaker 2: I mean I did the best that I could with

841
00:37:59,320 --> 00:38:02,199
what I had to work with and where my brain went.

842
00:38:02,480 --> 00:38:04,639
Speaker 3: I tell my story almost every.

843
00:38:04,400 --> 00:38:06,199
Speaker 2: Time I give a bear safety talk because I do

844
00:38:06,280 --> 00:38:08,639
think it's very important. And so my couple of my

845
00:38:08,679 --> 00:38:11,800
tips are I should have laid on my stomach if

846
00:38:11,840 --> 00:38:14,119
I was gonna lay down in that kind of encounter,

847
00:38:14,239 --> 00:38:16,840
how close he was to me, I should have just bam,

848
00:38:17,320 --> 00:38:20,239
laid down elbows in the ground so he was biting

849
00:38:20,320 --> 00:38:23,079
anything else but my head right, and really protected that

850
00:38:23,239 --> 00:38:24,599
and got the bear spray out.

851
00:38:25,280 --> 00:38:26,719
Speaker 3: That's just not what occurred to me. Right.

852
00:38:26,760 --> 00:38:28,920
Speaker 2: Sitting in the fetal position gave him more of an

853
00:38:28,920 --> 00:38:31,800
opportunity to where if he felt like smacking.

854
00:38:31,320 --> 00:38:33,519
Speaker 3: Me around more, I would have been more.

855
00:38:33,440 --> 00:38:36,280
Speaker 2: Loosey goosey, which would have given him more of opportunities

856
00:38:36,320 --> 00:38:38,119
to bite a lot more, you know. But luckily I

857
00:38:38,239 --> 00:38:41,039
was like tighten and sitting there we don't want folks

858
00:38:41,079 --> 00:38:42,599
to sit there because you could also be like on

859
00:38:42,679 --> 00:38:44,639
a hill and that bear smacks you, and then.

860
00:38:44,599 --> 00:38:46,440
Speaker 3: You are rolling down the hill and it causes that

861
00:38:46,519 --> 00:38:47,960
predator attack.

862
00:38:48,079 --> 00:38:50,760
Speaker 2: Right, they automatically want to run and just chase this

863
00:38:50,880 --> 00:38:53,000
thing so automatically caused them to chase.

864
00:38:53,039 --> 00:38:56,559
Speaker 3: So laying down. Definitely lay down if you can.

865
00:38:56,639 --> 00:38:59,519
Speaker 2: Just get your as it's gonna hurt and it's gonna suck,

866
00:38:59,599 --> 00:39:02,119
but just lay down so you can protect your head

867
00:39:02,199 --> 00:39:04,760
and your neck and your vitals too. Right, because even

868
00:39:04,800 --> 00:39:07,519
though I was in sitting in the fetal position, my

869
00:39:07,639 --> 00:39:09,719
vitals were not really that protected.

870
00:39:10,280 --> 00:39:11,320
Speaker 3: The other thing is I.

871
00:39:11,280 --> 00:39:13,920
Speaker 2: Had no idea and again we're learning so much all

872
00:39:13,960 --> 00:39:16,280
the time about bear spray and bear attacks and what

873
00:39:16,360 --> 00:39:18,639
goes on. I had no idea you could spray in

874
00:39:18,679 --> 00:39:21,480
your holster. So if I felt like it, or if

875
00:39:21,480 --> 00:39:23,599
my mind had been I might have just been able

876
00:39:23,639 --> 00:39:26,400
to like just grab and spray right there, and then

877
00:39:26,519 --> 00:39:28,480
it could have I may not have or he might

878
00:39:28,480 --> 00:39:31,000
have hit me as I was spraying and then taken off.

879
00:39:31,320 --> 00:39:33,960
So I always encourage folks to if you're don't feel

880
00:39:34,000 --> 00:39:35,840
like you can get it out, just take that cap

881
00:39:35,880 --> 00:39:37,920
off and spray as long as you're hitting that bear

882
00:39:38,039 --> 00:39:41,360
somewhere and it's building that cloud, that is what's important.

883
00:39:41,679 --> 00:39:43,320
Speaker 3: Like I said, I had no idea. It didn't even

884
00:39:43,360 --> 00:39:45,400
occur to me. Right, you always get taught take it

885
00:39:45,400 --> 00:39:47,800
out of your holster and spray. Well, in this there

886
00:39:47,880 --> 00:39:49,960
was no opportunity. There was no time.

887
00:39:50,320 --> 00:39:53,280
Speaker 2: He was literally right there, so I had seconds to

888
00:39:53,360 --> 00:39:56,199
really think about what I could do. And then again

889
00:39:56,320 --> 00:39:59,119
carrying two cans. I cannot emphasize this enough.

890
00:39:59,320 --> 00:40:00,800
Speaker 3: Carry to you can.

891
00:40:01,320 --> 00:40:04,559
Speaker 2: Seems like a lot, It sometimes feels heavy, but carrying

892
00:40:04,599 --> 00:40:07,239
that extra can is just so helpful because if you

893
00:40:07,320 --> 00:40:10,480
ever do you or somebody else has to use their can,

894
00:40:11,239 --> 00:40:14,000
or if it explodes and something happens and you need

895
00:40:14,039 --> 00:40:17,320
an extra can, right, it's just so helpful to have that. Yeah,

896
00:40:17,360 --> 00:40:19,199
and making sure you're making a lot of noise. And

897
00:40:19,480 --> 00:40:21,280
I don't go out by myself anymore.

898
00:40:21,440 --> 00:40:22,320
Speaker 3: It's very rare.

899
00:40:22,840 --> 00:40:25,639
Speaker 2: Certain areas I feel comfortable enough, but other than that,

900
00:40:25,679 --> 00:40:27,960
I don't. So I do encourage folks not to go

901
00:40:28,000 --> 00:40:30,679
out by themselves, but I get it. Not everybody has

902
00:40:30,719 --> 00:40:33,360
friends who like to go hiking and do the same stuff.

903
00:40:33,400 --> 00:40:36,079
So making sure you're making a ton of noise and

904
00:40:36,239 --> 00:40:38,880
taking the time to be aware of your surroundings, especially

905
00:40:38,960 --> 00:40:41,679
during hunting season. If you're a hunter and you hunt

906
00:40:41,679 --> 00:40:44,039
by yourself, I can't encourage it enough. Let's say you're

907
00:40:44,039 --> 00:40:45,760
going last minute and you're in a hurry. You just

908
00:40:45,760 --> 00:40:48,920
want to get out there, take the time. The elk

909
00:40:48,920 --> 00:40:50,079
are either going to be there.

910
00:40:50,039 --> 00:40:51,480
Speaker 3: Or they're not going to be there. The dey're going

911
00:40:51,559 --> 00:40:53,000
to be there or they're not going to be there.

912
00:40:53,000 --> 00:40:55,920
Speaker 2: But you being saved is a lot better than you

913
00:40:56,039 --> 00:40:58,440
rushing in there and then encountering a bear right away

914
00:40:58,639 --> 00:41:00,480
because they are not always paying it to time. So

915
00:41:00,559 --> 00:41:02,800
he was eating glacier lily balls, like he was literally

916
00:41:02,880 --> 00:41:06,840
digging up glacier lily balls, so he was not really focused.

917
00:41:06,840 --> 00:41:09,679
So I could have been making a ton of noise,

918
00:41:09,760 --> 00:41:12,199
but with all the ambient noise and everything else going in,

919
00:41:12,440 --> 00:41:14,159
I don't even know if he heard me. They get

920
00:41:14,239 --> 00:41:15,519
so focused on.

921
00:41:15,679 --> 00:41:17,440
Speaker 3: Eating and what they're doing.

922
00:41:17,480 --> 00:41:19,960
Speaker 2: That's why it's important for us to be super aware

923
00:41:20,000 --> 00:41:22,599
of our surroundings and like I said, make.

924
00:41:22,519 --> 00:41:26,360
Speaker 3: That noise and really really pay attention, because they are

925
00:41:26,400 --> 00:41:29,280
not always paying attention because they don't feel that they

926
00:41:29,320 --> 00:41:31,079
need to. And that goes for black bears too.

927
00:41:31,599 --> 00:41:33,199
Speaker 2: You know, during this four days, I don't know how

928
00:41:33,199 --> 00:41:35,639
many I probably saw fifteen different black bears that I

929
00:41:35,679 --> 00:41:38,280
literally scared the crap out of because we were just

930
00:41:38,679 --> 00:41:40,800
One of them had its head in a berry bush,

931
00:41:40,840 --> 00:41:43,239
and I just I was irritating that day. I was

932
00:41:43,280 --> 00:41:45,800
trying to get up a corral and it took forever,

933
00:41:45,880 --> 00:41:48,360
and I was so frustrated, and like, come walking out,

934
00:41:48,440 --> 00:41:50,599
I'm cursing up a storm, and all of a sudden,

935
00:41:50,639 --> 00:41:52,800
I just hear, oh, and all these rocks come down

936
00:41:52,800 --> 00:41:55,079
and this bear takes off. Well, his head was just

937
00:41:55,159 --> 00:41:57,719
in this bush, just trying to eat right because he

938
00:41:57,800 --> 00:42:00,440
wasn't paying attention. He was zoning out, so he didn't

939
00:42:00,480 --> 00:42:03,199
even hear me. And stay away from the headphones. I

940
00:42:03,239 --> 00:42:04,960
cannot tell you how many people I run into that

941
00:42:05,000 --> 00:42:06,960
have headphones out in the woods. You go onto the

942
00:42:06,960 --> 00:42:08,880
woods to be out into the woods, to hear the birds,

943
00:42:08,920 --> 00:42:11,440
to hear the coyotes, to hear the I don't know,

944
00:42:11,480 --> 00:42:13,360
the vultures whatever, whatever.

945
00:42:13,440 --> 00:42:17,400
Speaker 3: Know ye stream, Yes, do not put headphones in you're

946
00:42:17,639 --> 00:42:19,480
I just I it blows my mind.

947
00:42:19,800 --> 00:42:22,679
Speaker 1: So in this I do want to make it clear

948
00:42:22,719 --> 00:42:24,039
to people. I mean, we've talked about this in the

949
00:42:24,039 --> 00:42:27,760
podcast before, but like, this bear was not trying to

950
00:42:28,000 --> 00:42:30,320
eat you, or I don't want to say it wasn't

951
00:42:30,320 --> 00:42:31,760
trying to kill you per se because it bit you

952
00:42:31,800 --> 00:42:35,639
on the head. But this can we describe a little

953
00:42:35,639 --> 00:42:38,239
bit like the different kinds of encounters that you might

954
00:42:38,320 --> 00:42:41,360
have with a grizzly that you like would startle like,

955
00:42:41,400 --> 00:42:42,719
what are some of the outcomes?

956
00:42:43,199 --> 00:42:45,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, so this goes for any bear. So it's all

957
00:42:45,000 --> 00:42:46,119
about bear behavior.

958
00:42:46,440 --> 00:42:50,599
Speaker 2: So my encounter with him again was a defensive behavior, right,

959
00:42:50,639 --> 00:42:51,760
So it was very defensive.

960
00:42:51,920 --> 00:42:54,880
Speaker 3: I was in his area. So defensive behaviors tend to

961
00:42:54,880 --> 00:42:56,239
come about when you have a.

962
00:42:56,199 --> 00:42:59,440
Speaker 2: Female with cubs with a bear guarding of food source

963
00:42:59,679 --> 00:43:02,400
or and you just really surprise a bear and I

964
00:43:02,519 --> 00:43:05,920
surprised him, so that's where he became really defensive. Right.

965
00:43:05,960 --> 00:43:08,960
He smacked around, then he's sniffing, and then he bites

966
00:43:09,000 --> 00:43:09,679
down my skull.

967
00:43:10,119 --> 00:43:11,199
Speaker 3: A lot of that biting.

968
00:43:11,280 --> 00:43:14,840
Speaker 2: So those are all types of defensive encounters. Sometimes grizzly

969
00:43:14,840 --> 00:43:17,000
bears will climb trees, but black bears are the same thing.

970
00:43:17,000 --> 00:43:20,360
So anytime a bear climbs a tree, that's a defensive mechanism.

971
00:43:20,480 --> 00:43:22,559
So that bear is going up that tree because it

972
00:43:22,639 --> 00:43:24,639
is uncomfortable, it does not want to be there.

973
00:43:25,039 --> 00:43:26,280
Speaker 3: The only way to get.

974
00:43:26,119 --> 00:43:29,639
Speaker 2: That bear to go away is for you to go away, right,

975
00:43:29,679 --> 00:43:31,519
to disengage with that bear.

976
00:43:31,639 --> 00:43:33,159
Speaker 3: So by stepping away.

977
00:43:33,199 --> 00:43:35,199
Speaker 2: And that bear eventually come down the tree when you're

978
00:43:35,239 --> 00:43:38,400
gone and that threat is no longer there. That's where

979
00:43:38,400 --> 00:43:40,920
that defensive part comes in, right. They feel like they're

980
00:43:40,920 --> 00:43:43,679
being threatened. That female with the cubs, she feels as

981
00:43:43,679 --> 00:43:46,039
though her cubs are being threatened, so she's going to

982
00:43:46,440 --> 00:43:48,599
huff and puffs, she's gonna send them up a tree.

983
00:43:48,760 --> 00:43:50,599
She's gonna do what she needs to do. She's gonna

984
00:43:50,639 --> 00:43:52,639
bluff charge, or she's gonna do a full on charge.

985
00:43:52,639 --> 00:43:55,880
Those are all defensive mechanisms. They don't want to kill you.

986
00:43:56,039 --> 00:43:58,239
They just don't want you in their space. You're way

987
00:43:58,280 --> 00:43:59,920
too close. You're making them.

988
00:43:59,880 --> 00:44:01,639
Speaker 3: Really uncomfortable and they feel threatened.

989
00:44:02,360 --> 00:44:04,320
Speaker 2: There's also and we don't like to talk about this

990
00:44:04,360 --> 00:44:06,280
too much because it's pretty rare that it happens, but

991
00:44:06,320 --> 00:44:09,199
it does happen, and it's the predatory side of it.

992
00:44:09,360 --> 00:44:12,000
And that's where a bear is literally stalking you. So

993
00:44:12,079 --> 00:44:13,639
that's like very similar to.

994
00:44:13,599 --> 00:44:15,639
Speaker 3: A mountain lion. Right where they're following you.

995
00:44:16,280 --> 00:44:18,599
Speaker 2: They're not giving you any of those warning signs. They're

996
00:44:18,639 --> 00:44:21,440
not stomping the ground, they're not huffing, they're not chomping

997
00:44:21,480 --> 00:44:25,480
their jaws, they're not doing bluff charges. They're just looking

998
00:44:25,719 --> 00:44:28,679
very normal. But they're following you. That is more of

999
00:44:28,719 --> 00:44:31,679
that predatory where they want to eat you while they're

1000
00:44:31,760 --> 00:44:34,519
we're all they'll just keep going, and that's where you

1001
00:44:34,559 --> 00:44:37,400
want to fight back and even have your bear spray

1002
00:44:37,400 --> 00:44:39,000
out and use your bear spray if you can.

1003
00:44:39,079 --> 00:44:40,760
Speaker 3: But sometimes they don't come close enough.

1004
00:44:41,360 --> 00:44:43,960
Speaker 2: Most encounters tend to be defensive. And again, it's all

1005
00:44:44,000 --> 00:44:46,599
about bear behavior. It is not about grizzly bears versus

1006
00:44:46,679 --> 00:44:47,199
black bears.

1007
00:44:47,320 --> 00:44:47,480
Speaker 3: You know.

1008
00:44:47,519 --> 00:44:49,360
Speaker 2: That used to be something we talked about a ton,

1009
00:44:50,039 --> 00:44:52,199
but now there's so much more research and there's a

1010
00:44:52,239 --> 00:44:55,679
lot of science and everything that's going into bear behavior,

1011
00:44:55,719 --> 00:44:58,239
and they both behave very similar ways.

1012
00:44:58,360 --> 00:45:02,599
Speaker 3: Yeah, most black bears and to run away, not all

1013
00:45:02,599 --> 00:45:03,039
the time.

1014
00:45:03,400 --> 00:45:07,639
Speaker 2: I have literally tried cubs before, and that female sat

1015
00:45:07,719 --> 00:45:08,079
right there.

1016
00:45:08,199 --> 00:45:09,840
Speaker 3: She never did a full on charge.

1017
00:45:10,320 --> 00:45:13,679
Speaker 2: She did a bluff charge multiple times, but until I left,

1018
00:45:13,880 --> 00:45:16,199
that is the only time she started to like lower

1019
00:45:16,320 --> 00:45:18,400
and feel a little bit better until I started to

1020
00:45:18,440 --> 00:45:21,519
walk away, So it's definitely possible for those to happen

1021
00:45:21,599 --> 00:45:23,920
with either bear and grizzly bears tend to run away too.

1022
00:45:24,440 --> 00:45:28,679
I am sure that I saw or heard or there

1023
00:45:28,760 --> 00:45:30,880
were more grizzly bears around me that I did not

1024
00:45:31,079 --> 00:45:33,840
know were actually there because I was making a lot

1025
00:45:33,840 --> 00:45:35,920
of noise and letting them know that I was in

1026
00:45:35,960 --> 00:45:38,239
the area. They really don't want to be around us either.

1027
00:45:38,639 --> 00:45:40,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, I feel like when I started this podcast, I

1028
00:45:40,360 --> 00:45:43,400
have this book Bear Attacks their causes and like how

1029
00:45:43,440 --> 00:45:45,960
to Prevent them by Steven Herrero, And I feel like

1030
00:45:46,039 --> 00:45:48,719
in that book it's even like, yeah, black bears are

1031
00:45:48,760 --> 00:45:51,559
not great moms and they'll just leave their cubs to

1032
00:45:51,639 --> 00:45:54,360
do whatever, but grizzlies will kill you for their cubs.

1033
00:45:54,679 --> 00:45:56,920
So it kind of instilled this whole like all right,

1034
00:45:57,000 --> 00:46:00,760
black bears are sometimes trying to eat you. Don't really

1035
00:46:00,800 --> 00:46:01,719
feel like they're ever trying.

1036
00:46:01,599 --> 00:46:01,960
Speaker 3: To eat you.

1037
00:46:02,000 --> 00:46:04,159
Speaker 1: So if a black bear's attacking you, definitely fight them

1038
00:46:04,239 --> 00:46:06,960
versus grizzly just lie down the whole like, if it's black,

1039
00:46:07,000 --> 00:46:11,079
fight back, if it's brown, lie down situation. So now

1040
00:46:11,079 --> 00:46:15,239
we know better, Yes, and it's a nuanced thing. So

1041
00:46:15,320 --> 00:46:19,280
basically that advice is could put, don't acknowledge the black

1042
00:46:19,440 --> 00:46:22,400
versus brown, acknowledge the behavior right.

1043
00:46:22,199 --> 00:46:24,960
Speaker 2: Correct and because in the heat of the moment, it

1044
00:46:25,000 --> 00:46:27,239
adds to that right. Their behaviors are the same, they

1045
00:46:27,280 --> 00:46:29,199
do the same things, but in the heat of the moment,

1046
00:46:29,239 --> 00:46:31,480
you cannot always tell if it's a black bear or

1047
00:46:31,519 --> 00:46:34,280
grizzly bear out west. Obviously they don't have grizzly bears

1048
00:46:34,280 --> 00:46:37,719
on the East coast, but out here sometimes you cannot tell.

1049
00:46:37,920 --> 00:46:40,679
Black bears can be brown, they can be cinnamon, they

1050
00:46:40,719 --> 00:46:43,440
can be blonde. Grizzly bears can be black, they can

1051
00:46:43,480 --> 00:46:46,760
be dark brown. They don't always have that grizzled book,

1052
00:46:46,800 --> 00:46:49,519
and you don't always see that grizzle book either, Right,

1053
00:46:49,880 --> 00:46:52,199
So there's these four features that you really got to

1054
00:46:52,280 --> 00:46:55,599
focus on, right. The claws, so the longer claws are

1055
00:46:55,639 --> 00:46:57,760
grizzly bears, the shorter ones are black bears.

1056
00:46:57,800 --> 00:46:59,039
Speaker 3: And then you have this snow right.

1057
00:46:59,079 --> 00:47:01,559
Speaker 2: Grizzly bears have that snout, they have a round head,

1058
00:47:01,639 --> 00:47:05,360
they have round ears, and black bears have more narrow snouts,

1059
00:47:05,519 --> 00:47:06,519
taller ears.

1060
00:47:06,960 --> 00:47:08,000
Speaker 3: And then kriizon bears of.

1061
00:47:07,920 --> 00:47:10,280
Speaker 2: Course had the hump, but these are all You've got

1062
00:47:10,280 --> 00:47:11,719
to connect all those features.

1063
00:47:11,719 --> 00:47:14,800
Speaker 3: So size and color are not ways to tell.

1064
00:47:14,960 --> 00:47:18,079
Speaker 2: Even in Tennessee, they have a different color black bears right,

1065
00:47:18,119 --> 00:47:18,760
color phases.

1066
00:47:18,800 --> 00:47:20,519
Speaker 3: They come in a variety of color phases.

1067
00:47:20,559 --> 00:47:24,320
Speaker 2: So it's really important to pay attention to that behavior because,

1068
00:47:24,360 --> 00:47:26,960
like people have been attacked by black bears before, that

1069
00:47:27,039 --> 00:47:27,840
was not a predator.

1070
00:47:27,880 --> 00:47:30,440
Speaker 3: It's very much a defensive mechanism.

1071
00:47:30,800 --> 00:47:35,239
Speaker 1: Mm hmm. Yeah, So how did this experience? And you

1072
00:47:35,239 --> 00:47:37,280
said you don't go out alone anymore, but if you

1073
00:47:37,400 --> 00:47:41,360
were still working outdoors, Like, how does that feel for

1074
00:47:41,440 --> 00:47:43,400
you now? Like do you do that kind of work

1075
00:47:43,440 --> 00:47:45,039
alone anymore? Not so much.

1076
00:47:46,320 --> 00:47:49,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, So when I about, let's see, I got attacked

1077
00:47:49,960 --> 00:47:50,360
in May.

1078
00:47:50,480 --> 00:47:53,559
Speaker 2: In that October, I went back to Idaho fishing game

1079
00:47:53,719 --> 00:47:54,719
because the grizzly.

1080
00:47:54,440 --> 00:47:55,960
Speaker 3: Bear project was on its end.

1081
00:47:56,039 --> 00:47:58,079
Speaker 2: So when I was able to finally go back to work,

1082
00:47:58,119 --> 00:47:59,719
I went back to Idaho because, like I said, that

1083
00:47:59,719 --> 00:48:03,039
product was no longer going on for that year. And

1084
00:48:03,119 --> 00:48:06,239
I did go out by myself, oh my god.

1085
00:48:06,719 --> 00:48:09,039
Speaker 3: But after that I very much stopped.

1086
00:48:09,159 --> 00:48:12,920
Speaker 2: So actually that October I went out, I was going

1087
00:48:12,920 --> 00:48:15,719
out by myself doing knee cropsies. Had two cans of

1088
00:48:15,719 --> 00:48:18,719
bear spray. Yes, had an enrage, had all the things.

1089
00:48:18,880 --> 00:48:22,880
I was looking for an elk calf that was colored.

1090
00:48:23,559 --> 00:48:26,280
And I got about one hundred yards roughly from this

1091
00:48:26,400 --> 00:48:28,199
elk cap and I could see it down in this

1092
00:48:28,320 --> 00:48:31,519
like rubene kind of creaky area. All of a sudden,

1093
00:48:31,519 --> 00:48:34,079
a mountain lion comes up from that calf, and I was,

1094
00:48:34,119 --> 00:48:39,079
like you would one pretator year is I'm fine, and

1095
00:48:39,239 --> 00:48:41,360
you hang on to that, and I just like back

1096
00:48:41,440 --> 00:48:45,000
to myself out in a way.

1097
00:48:44,239 --> 00:48:46,480
Speaker 1: Oh my god. So not only did you go back

1098
00:48:46,519 --> 00:48:48,000
in the field by yourself, you went back to the

1099
00:48:48,000 --> 00:48:51,039
field looking for dead things that a grizzly or like

1100
00:48:51,159 --> 00:48:53,119
another preedator like a mountain lion would be going after.

1101
00:48:53,280 --> 00:48:54,280
Oh yes, thank god.

1102
00:48:54,599 --> 00:48:57,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, So I still did that. So I

1103
00:48:57,880 --> 00:49:01,199
will say, but I have hunting wine, and I definitely

1104
00:49:01,199 --> 00:49:03,719
don't do it by myself, so I always take somebody

1105
00:49:03,760 --> 00:49:07,480
else hiking. Definitely do that as well. And like I said,

1106
00:49:07,480 --> 00:49:10,320
over the years, I've definitely learned a lot more. Like

1107
00:49:10,360 --> 00:49:11,480
I said, it's with that job.

1108
00:49:11,519 --> 00:49:11,960
Speaker 3: It was hard.

1109
00:49:11,960 --> 00:49:15,119
Speaker 2: There wasn't always somebody available, and every time I tried

1110
00:49:15,159 --> 00:49:17,480
to make sure that somebody was able to go out

1111
00:49:17,480 --> 00:49:19,079
and move but on everybody could go out.

1112
00:49:18,880 --> 00:49:20,639
Speaker 3: And I don't. It's hard.

1113
00:49:20,679 --> 00:49:22,679
Speaker 2: You don't want again, you don't want to discourage people

1114
00:49:22,679 --> 00:49:27,280
from going out by themselves. And to be honest, in wildlife,

1115
00:49:27,440 --> 00:49:29,920
that's what happens a lot, like we do end up

1116
00:49:29,960 --> 00:49:33,119
going out by ourselves, and it's just I.

1117
00:49:33,000 --> 00:49:35,199
Speaker 3: Don't know, I'm so used to it. It's so part

1118
00:49:35,239 --> 00:49:35,840
of the game.

1119
00:49:36,000 --> 00:49:38,119
Speaker 2: But the more funding they can get to have a

1120
00:49:38,159 --> 00:49:41,519
second person to go, especially doing me crops e and yeah,

1121
00:49:41,679 --> 00:49:44,760
certain things like that, you really should have a second person,

1122
00:49:45,360 --> 00:49:47,480
but I'm so used. I think I'm just so used

1123
00:49:47,480 --> 00:49:49,760
to the wildlife work and that's how it goes. And

1124
00:49:49,800 --> 00:49:51,400
like I said, I don't want anybody not to go

1125
00:49:51,519 --> 00:49:54,760
out and not have the fun adventures just because they're

1126
00:49:54,800 --> 00:49:55,639
going out by themselves.

1127
00:49:55,639 --> 00:49:57,840
Speaker 3: I'd rather have them just be safe and be more

1128
00:49:57,880 --> 00:50:00,880
aware than having to sit at home not being able to.

1129
00:50:00,760 --> 00:50:02,760
Speaker 1: Go out, you know, yeah, like being afraid.

1130
00:50:03,000 --> 00:50:06,920
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah, I don't have a respectable fear.

1131
00:50:07,440 --> 00:50:10,400
Speaker 3: But also remember that you're in a wild area.

1132
00:50:11,119 --> 00:50:18,280
Speaker 1: Yeah. And as we wrap up, what is in all

1133
00:50:18,360 --> 00:50:21,400
of your experience with bears, one of the biggest misconceptions

1134
00:50:21,400 --> 00:50:24,719
that you found about them, Man, that's tough, whether it

1135
00:50:24,760 --> 00:50:28,360
be like species versus species or like bears in general.

1136
00:50:29,079 --> 00:50:31,960
Speaker 3: I think the species versus species is the big one.

1137
00:50:32,000 --> 00:50:35,360
Speaker 2: I think everybody the big message is that black bears

1138
00:50:35,360 --> 00:50:39,239
are different than grizzly bears, and I just don't I

1139
00:50:39,360 --> 00:50:41,239
just don't believe that. Like I said, even the work

1140
00:50:41,280 --> 00:50:46,440
I did in Florida, we see very similar behavior in

1141
00:50:46,519 --> 00:50:49,679
Montana when it comes to like bears getting into garbage,

1142
00:50:49,840 --> 00:50:52,800
or bears that are so used to people.

1143
00:50:53,159 --> 00:50:56,000
Speaker 3: That they don't care. And the same thing happens in

1144
00:50:56,039 --> 00:50:57,960
Montana that happens in Florida.

1145
00:50:58,360 --> 00:51:01,320
Speaker 2: All the behaviors are very simil So I worked really

1146
00:51:01,360 --> 00:51:03,480
hard when I do outreach and education to try and

1147
00:51:03,519 --> 00:51:05,559
get people away from that. You know, everybody's like, oh,

1148
00:51:05,599 --> 00:51:07,719
it's just a black bear. I'm like, actually, it's not

1149
00:51:07,840 --> 00:51:10,599
just a black bear, because they do the same things

1150
00:51:11,159 --> 00:51:14,559
and they can potentially harm you as well. And that's

1151
00:51:14,679 --> 00:51:17,760
I don't want us teaching our younger generations that it's

1152
00:51:17,920 --> 00:51:20,480
just a black bear will be fine again, because you

1153
00:51:20,559 --> 00:51:23,199
cannot always tell. You could be out in the woods

1154
00:51:23,239 --> 00:51:27,480
and you see this beautiful cinnamon bear, huge bear and

1155
00:51:27,519 --> 00:51:30,159
you're like chrismal bear, black beary prisoners, right, they could

1156
00:51:30,199 --> 00:51:32,679
have a big head. So anytime I'm doing again that

1157
00:51:32,719 --> 00:51:35,079
outreach and education, I really try to get photos that

1158
00:51:35,119 --> 00:51:38,039
are so hard to tell and try to trick people

1159
00:51:38,239 --> 00:51:41,039
and that helps to explain it is hard to tell

1160
00:51:41,079 --> 00:51:44,880
the difference. Focus on that behavior because then you're focusing

1161
00:51:44,920 --> 00:51:48,119
on their behavior will help you build and focus on

1162
00:51:48,159 --> 00:51:50,360
your behavior too, right, because.

1163
00:51:50,079 --> 00:51:52,599
Speaker 3: Then you're moving or do you need to fight back?

1164
00:51:52,719 --> 00:51:55,159
Speaker 2: Is it that predatory where they're not really making any

1165
00:51:55,199 --> 00:51:58,519
noises but they're staring you down, or are they doing

1166
00:51:58,519 --> 00:52:02,000
those defensive mechanisms? You know? Can you back away slowly

1167
00:52:02,039 --> 00:52:04,320
and just talk calmly to the bear, bear spury out.

1168
00:52:04,519 --> 00:52:06,440
Speaker 3: It's so helpful. Just behavior is.

1169
00:52:06,400 --> 00:52:09,360
Speaker 2: The way, and that goes for any animal, right, most elk,

1170
00:52:09,519 --> 00:52:13,320
dear every they all have those defensive type mechanisms, So

1171
00:52:13,559 --> 00:52:16,519
really paying attention to that animal behavior is important.

1172
00:52:17,159 --> 00:52:19,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, I feel like it lends to how out of

1173
00:52:19,920 --> 00:52:23,039
touch people have become with the wild world. That like

1174
00:52:24,000 --> 00:52:27,039
you could go out and see a bear and be like, oh, well,

1175
00:52:27,079 --> 00:52:29,320
it's just a black bear. Like I just saw video

1176
00:52:29,320 --> 00:52:31,559
of people at Yellowstone like walking up to a black

1177
00:52:31,559 --> 00:52:34,400
bear to take pictures and it's like it's still a bear,

1178
00:52:34,599 --> 00:52:37,159
Like it doesn't matter that it's not a grizzly, and

1179
00:52:37,199 --> 00:52:39,119
people still do it with grizzlies at Yellowstone. But just

1180
00:52:39,159 --> 00:52:41,159
because they're at a national park doesn't mean that they're

1181
00:52:41,239 --> 00:52:44,159
like it's a petting zoo. Like there's still wild animals.

1182
00:52:44,320 --> 00:52:47,519
We should still like respectfully fear them and give them space.

1183
00:52:48,199 --> 00:52:50,480
And like I was telling you before we start recording,

1184
00:52:50,559 --> 00:52:52,599
I work with a black bear who's four hundred pounds.

1185
00:52:52,960 --> 00:52:55,519
That's the same size as the bear that attacked you

1186
00:52:55,679 --> 00:52:58,199
and cracked your skull. So just because it's a black

1187
00:52:58,239 --> 00:53:01,159
bear doesn't mean that they're like tiny and not as intimidating.

1188
00:53:01,360 --> 00:53:03,679
So I totally agree with you. And I was gonna

1189
00:53:03,679 --> 00:53:06,239
ask you what the most common conflict people have with them,

1190
00:53:06,280 --> 00:53:08,239
but I feel like you answered it with the trash

1191
00:53:08,320 --> 00:53:11,760
I'm assuming would probably be the biggest thing in your experience.

1192
00:53:11,639 --> 00:53:13,599
Speaker 2: So I would say it depends on them where you're at,

1193
00:53:13,679 --> 00:53:17,039
So definitely trash is a big one. Bird Feeders are

1194
00:53:17,079 --> 00:53:20,920
a huge, huge one out here in Montana. Right, really

1195
00:53:21,000 --> 00:53:24,679
easy calories, really quick coming bird feeders. Those are a

1196
00:53:24,719 --> 00:53:27,039
big one that we have issue, especially because people put

1197
00:53:27,039 --> 00:53:29,599
them right on their porch right by their window. So

1198
00:53:29,639 --> 00:53:31,519
then the bear comes in knocks that out and then

1199
00:53:31,559 --> 00:53:32,880
they're like, oh, there's a bear of a porch.

1200
00:53:33,000 --> 00:53:36,119
Speaker 3: We're like, well, the bird seed is there, so that's

1201
00:53:36,119 --> 00:53:36,639
a big one.

1202
00:53:36,639 --> 00:53:39,480
Speaker 2: And a lot of folks don't really think about the

1203
00:53:39,559 --> 00:53:41,559
birds and how they're eating it, right, So the bird

1204
00:53:41,599 --> 00:53:44,880
comes in, is really picky, picks through all of it,

1205
00:53:44,960 --> 00:53:45,360
dumps it.

1206
00:53:45,360 --> 00:53:46,039
Speaker 3: All on the ground.

1207
00:53:46,119 --> 00:53:49,000
Speaker 2: So you can hang that bird feeder ten feet but

1208
00:53:49,079 --> 00:53:52,679
that bird is still being picky. So that bird feeder

1209
00:53:52,800 --> 00:53:55,880
is still technically drawing a bear in and that bear

1210
00:53:56,119 --> 00:53:59,320
is still getting that food, so it's still getting that

1211
00:53:59,400 --> 00:54:01,960
reward because as the birds knock it on the ground

1212
00:54:02,079 --> 00:54:05,000
all the time, and the same thing with the hummingbird feeders, right,

1213
00:54:05,039 --> 00:54:09,679
all that sugary water is so easy for them to get. So, yeah,

1214
00:54:09,719 --> 00:54:13,079
bird feeders and chickens, we see a lot of chicken feed.

1215
00:54:13,119 --> 00:54:15,960
It always starts off with the chicken feed and then

1216
00:54:16,079 --> 00:54:17,679
the chickens don't move and they're.

1217
00:54:17,480 --> 00:54:20,119
Speaker 3: Like, hmm, this must be dead. I'm gonna eat it,

1218
00:54:20,199 --> 00:54:23,639
and then they just kill it. Yeah, so couple the

1219
00:54:23,679 --> 00:54:24,599
big ones for sure.

1220
00:54:25,320 --> 00:54:28,159
Speaker 1: Yeah. I also feel like that's such topical messaging right

1221
00:54:28,159 --> 00:54:31,039
now in spring because everyone's like the birds are back,

1222
00:54:31,119 --> 00:54:33,119
so like putting back up my bird feeders. And another

1223
00:54:33,159 --> 00:54:35,559
thing that always killed me was, oh, well, like I

1224
00:54:35,599 --> 00:54:38,000
bring my bird feeders in at nights, the bears don't

1225
00:54:38,159 --> 00:54:40,960
get them. But it's like they also will come out

1226
00:54:41,039 --> 00:54:44,800
during the day. They are not strictly nocturnal. Also, I've

1227
00:54:44,840 --> 00:54:47,159
found that like even if you bring them in during

1228
00:54:47,679 --> 00:54:50,800
the night, they might realize and like watch that it's

1229
00:54:50,840 --> 00:54:52,480
out during the day and just be like, oh, well,

1230
00:54:52,480 --> 00:54:54,480
then I'll just make sure I hit that in the

1231
00:54:54,519 --> 00:54:56,760
afternoon and go to bed at night or whatever, you know,

1232
00:54:56,840 --> 00:54:59,119
like they can change their schedules for your bird.

1233
00:54:58,920 --> 00:55:00,440
Speaker 3: Feeder bring up.

1234
00:55:00,440 --> 00:55:03,159
Speaker 2: A great point is mixed messaging is like bears only

1235
00:55:03,159 --> 00:55:06,159
travel at night. Bears travel all day long. They travel

1236
00:55:06,199 --> 00:55:08,760
whenever they want, they sleep whenever they want, they eat.

1237
00:55:08,519 --> 00:55:10,480
Speaker 3: Whenever they want. It does not matter.

1238
00:55:10,519 --> 00:55:12,559
Speaker 2: And I think that's a big misconception too, is that

1239
00:55:12,599 --> 00:55:15,000
people think that bears only travel at night and they

1240
00:55:15,000 --> 00:55:17,639
don't and it's not doesn't mean there's something wrong with

1241
00:55:17,679 --> 00:55:19,679
a bear. We get some calls where people are like, oh,

1242
00:55:19,719 --> 00:55:20,719
there's a bear in my yard.

1243
00:55:20,719 --> 00:55:25,920
Speaker 3: It's noon, yep, okay, yeah, the bears walking through they

1244
00:55:25,920 --> 00:55:26,880
don't have a clock.

1245
00:55:27,079 --> 00:55:30,440
Speaker 2: They don't know stay boundaries, right, they don't understand they're

1246
00:55:30,480 --> 00:55:33,960
just traveling and looking for food. So it's not uncommon

1247
00:55:34,039 --> 00:55:35,679
to see a bear in the middle of the day

1248
00:55:35,960 --> 00:55:36,840
just mosey about.

1249
00:55:37,039 --> 00:55:37,239
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1250
00:55:37,280 --> 00:55:40,159
Speaker 1: I feel like that applies to so many animals, like raccoons,

1251
00:55:40,199 --> 00:55:42,760
Like there's very few animals that are strictly nocturnal, like

1252
00:55:42,840 --> 00:55:45,400
that's for sure, and that if you see during the

1253
00:55:45,440 --> 00:55:48,440
day weird. But last even a fox, it's like, yeah,

1254
00:55:48,480 --> 00:55:50,480
of course they're out during the day. So yeah, I

1255
00:55:50,519 --> 00:55:52,320
used to have people call me in same thing, like

1256
00:55:52,360 --> 00:55:57,519
I saw a bear this afternoon. I'm like that's awesome, Like, yeah,

1257
00:55:57,760 --> 00:55:58,199
lucky you.

1258
00:55:58,679 --> 00:56:01,199
Speaker 3: Yeah, all right.

1259
00:56:02,039 --> 00:56:04,360
Speaker 1: We touched on so many things, but just as a

1260
00:56:04,440 --> 00:56:07,840
final question, because we're coming up on like a busy

1261
00:56:08,039 --> 00:56:11,320
National Park season and because they are extremely likely to

1262
00:56:11,320 --> 00:56:14,760
be understaffed and already struggling, and it's already an issue

1263
00:56:14,800 --> 00:56:18,800
every other year with bears getting into campers things, So like,

1264
00:56:19,199 --> 00:56:22,679
what is like the number one piece of advice that

1265
00:56:22,679 --> 00:56:24,320
you could give people on how to stay safe if

1266
00:56:24,360 --> 00:56:26,519
they're recreating around bears this season?

1267
00:56:27,039 --> 00:56:29,199
Speaker 3: Oh gosh, the number one.

1268
00:56:29,320 --> 00:56:30,320
Speaker 1: I know, that's a hard question.

1269
00:56:30,559 --> 00:56:33,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, my Number one would always be bear spray. Right,

1270
00:56:33,480 --> 00:56:36,039
and if you're going out west, especially if you're going

1271
00:56:36,039 --> 00:56:37,039
out west, take your bear spray.

1272
00:56:37,079 --> 00:56:38,880
Speaker 3: I mean I used to carry bear spray in Florida

1273
00:56:38,920 --> 00:56:39,400
and stuff too.

1274
00:56:39,519 --> 00:56:42,079
Speaker 2: So really, maybe you're going a place where there's bears,

1275
00:56:42,239 --> 00:56:45,280
Carrie bear spray, have it with you, have it accessible,

1276
00:56:45,360 --> 00:56:47,960
have it ready to go. My second thing would be

1277
00:56:48,039 --> 00:56:51,039
just please please please secure your attract ins. Keep those

1278
00:56:51,079 --> 00:56:54,800
coolers in your truck. They have bear boxes. Sometimes they

1279
00:56:54,800 --> 00:56:57,039
have bear boxes you can rent, sometimes they.

1280
00:56:56,880 --> 00:57:00,920
Speaker 3: Have locks you can rent. Contact right, do your research ahead.

1281
00:57:00,559 --> 00:57:03,239
Speaker 2: Of time is another big one. During your research ahead

1282
00:57:03,239 --> 00:57:05,599
of time and nowhere coming into you could think that

1283
00:57:05,639 --> 00:57:07,480
you're in the middle of town and that you will

1284
00:57:07,519 --> 00:57:10,000
not see a bear well and guard here. That's not true.

1285
00:57:10,159 --> 00:57:12,920
You a sal stone, that's not true either. Sometimes they're

1286
00:57:13,000 --> 00:57:15,719
just walking through town. Again at eight o'clock at night,

1287
00:57:15,760 --> 00:57:18,760
if all is quiet and they know where the trash is,

1288
00:57:19,039 --> 00:57:21,280
they're gonna go there, or they're just gonna be walking

1289
00:57:21,360 --> 00:57:21,800
through town.

1290
00:57:21,880 --> 00:57:24,320
Speaker 3: Sometimes bears get lost and they have no idea how

1291
00:57:24,320 --> 00:57:26,400
they ended up where they did, and then that's how

1292
00:57:26,440 --> 00:57:26,760
they end.

1293
00:57:26,760 --> 00:57:29,039
Speaker 2: Up in somebody's tree in a yard. Right, Because they're

1294
00:57:29,039 --> 00:57:30,960
so scared. They're like, how did I end up here?

1295
00:57:31,119 --> 00:57:35,079
I took the wrong way. Yeah, so just bear spray

1296
00:57:35,239 --> 00:57:38,599
and do your research. Make sure you know how to

1297
00:57:38,760 --> 00:57:41,039
secure your attractants and where to put them.

1298
00:57:41,960 --> 00:57:46,760
Speaker 1: Yeah. Also, this is coming after May fifteenth, so what

1299
00:57:46,800 --> 00:57:50,679
two weeks ago from recording this, sure Yellowstone posted that

1300
00:57:50,800 --> 00:57:53,760
they have already killed an eleven year old grizzly because

1301
00:57:53,800 --> 00:57:56,599
it was getting into trash at the park. We're not

1302
00:57:56,679 --> 00:57:59,480
even in the full swing of the season yet and already,

1303
00:57:59,519 --> 00:58:01,400
like a bear has been killed for getting into trash.

1304
00:58:01,519 --> 00:58:03,400
I think that's another thing a lot of people don't

1305
00:58:03,400 --> 00:58:05,719
think of is Yeah, maybe you're like, oh man, this

1306
00:58:05,800 --> 00:58:07,800
bear like gone my trash. That's annoying, but it's like

1307
00:58:07,920 --> 00:58:10,639
it also could lead to the bear being killed, which

1308
00:58:10,679 --> 00:58:12,960
sucks because that's the reason you're going there is to

1309
00:58:13,000 --> 00:58:14,960
see the wildlife, so you don't want to contribute to

1310
00:58:14,960 --> 00:58:16,000
them being great.

1311
00:58:17,079 --> 00:58:19,079
Speaker 2: And bears have a learned behavior, right, so it takes

1312
00:58:19,119 --> 00:58:21,920
one time, one time for them to eat bird seed,

1313
00:58:22,039 --> 00:58:24,360
one time for them to get a nice good bag

1314
00:58:24,400 --> 00:58:27,559
of garbage, and then they'll keep going and they'll keep going,

1315
00:58:27,880 --> 00:58:30,480
and then if there's nothing negative happening, when they're getting

1316
00:58:30,519 --> 00:58:33,119
into that garbage or the bird feeders or the coolers

1317
00:58:33,639 --> 00:58:33,920
or in.

1318
00:58:33,880 --> 00:58:36,559
Speaker 3: The campground or in your tents, then they'll keep going.

1319
00:58:36,760 --> 00:58:39,960
Speaker 2: So it's all about having that negative association or where

1320
00:58:39,960 --> 00:58:41,000
they have to burn off.

1321
00:58:40,840 --> 00:58:41,599
Speaker 3: A lot of energy.

1322
00:58:41,599 --> 00:58:44,079
Speaker 2: That's why you walk your coolers and they're having a

1323
00:58:44,119 --> 00:58:45,679
flip it and roll it around, and then they get

1324
00:58:45,719 --> 00:58:48,679
frustrated and they're like, Okay, I can't keep burning off energy.

1325
00:58:48,719 --> 00:58:50,960
I need to survive, and then they'll move on. So

1326
00:58:51,039 --> 00:58:53,800
bear is the stem of materials is extremely important.

1327
00:58:54,800 --> 00:58:57,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm going back to the chickens. Like electric fencing

1328
00:58:57,800 --> 00:59:00,719
also super important, even if you just have like fun

1329
00:59:00,760 --> 00:59:03,760
backyard chickens as a hobby. Yeah, there's so many things

1330
00:59:03,800 --> 00:59:06,719
we can get into. But Amber, thank you so much

1331
00:59:06,760 --> 00:59:09,239
for sharing her story with us and talking about bear

1332
00:59:09,280 --> 00:59:11,960
safety tips as the season gets going. So it's been

1333
00:59:11,960 --> 00:59:12,760
a pleasure having you.

1334
00:59:13,159 --> 00:59:15,239
Speaker 3: Thank you so much for having me, and I appreciate it.

1335
00:59:25,519 --> 00:59:29,039
Speaker 1: And that was my interview with Amber Kornack, bear biologist

1336
00:59:29,119 --> 00:59:32,760
and bear attack survivor. We talked for like thirty to

1337
00:59:32,800 --> 00:59:36,880
forty five minutes after the episode recording, and I just

1338
00:59:37,000 --> 00:59:40,440
was like, I cannot believe that you got attacked in May,

1339
00:59:40,639 --> 00:59:42,920
and by October you were out doing it all again

1340
00:59:43,079 --> 00:59:45,840
on your own night. Couldn't be me. She's built different.

1341
00:59:45,920 --> 00:59:49,400
I could not do that. So please heed the advice

1342
00:59:49,440 --> 00:59:52,039
that she shared if you are going out to recreate

1343
00:59:52,159 --> 00:59:54,760
in bear country this summer in the US or I

1344
00:59:54,760 --> 00:59:57,800
guess anywhere that you havee bears, and just be prepared,

1345
00:59:58,519 --> 01:00:01,440
know what animals are around you, keep your headphones out.

1346
01:00:02,000 --> 01:00:04,639
So with that, I'll wrap it up. I'll keep this

1347
01:00:04,679 --> 01:00:06,880
outro short. Like I said in the intro, I'm not

1348
01:00:06,880 --> 01:00:08,719
sure when I'm going to have another episode out, so

1349
01:00:08,960 --> 01:00:13,519
just click that subscribe or follow button wherever you're listening,

1350
01:00:13,559 --> 01:00:16,239
and whenever a new episode comes out, you'll see it

1351
01:00:16,760 --> 01:00:18,760
or follow us on social media. You can see our

1352
01:00:18,760 --> 01:00:23,440
episode description for links to our Instagram, TikTok, Twitter, things

1353
01:00:23,480 --> 01:00:28,119
like that, and our website. Otherwise, I will see you

1354
01:00:28,159 --> 01:00:30,639
when I see you. Thank you so much Jesse Walsh

1355
01:00:30,800 --> 01:00:35,159
for editing this and being so kind, and Josh Walsh

1356
01:00:35,320 --> 01:00:38,360
for also being kind and making our intro music. Love

1357
01:00:38,360 --> 01:00:41,679
you both, and thank you all for listening. Once again,

1358
01:00:41,760 --> 01:00:43,320
Thank you so much to all of you who reached

1359
01:00:43,320 --> 01:00:46,159
out to me in this past month. It's been tough,

1360
01:00:46,760 --> 01:00:50,719
but everyone making me remember I'm not alone has made

1361
01:00:50,760 --> 01:00:53,519
it easier, so thank you. And if you were listening

1362
01:00:53,559 --> 01:00:55,760
to this, you're also not alone. We can reach out

1363
01:00:55,800 --> 01:00:58,639
to me anytime if you need it, so thank you guys,

1364
01:00:58,880 --> 01:01:00,199
and I'll see you next time.