WEBVTT

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<v Speaker 1>Bien montoma got boga o the hearten yir, the holla,

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<v Speaker 1>the hayman a he call ah ersuen as lance la

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<v Speaker 1>Dani detained, Nudovshu will kill Nagatarhu la hula schomperoids on

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<v Speaker 1>udos ors, lance is phaser lad Gun's throw Tasha Tapa

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<v Speaker 1>seraanashka august navad is FuGO more tyri hi a punk

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<v Speaker 1>ie is called RelA on tudoros or raslanza.

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<v Speaker 2>If we realed this Naharin, Oh hey, it's the apple

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<v Speaker 2>peels that your roommate was going to compost, but you

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<v Speaker 2>ate them because refuge Ali Ward back with an anniversary

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<v Speaker 2>episode of Ologies. We are officially two hundred and eighty

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<v Speaker 2>three episodes in and as of late September, we are five.

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<v Speaker 2>We're five years old, and I was thinking five is

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<v Speaker 2>a big year. I should do something. I should make

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<v Speaker 2>an anniversary clip episode. But then I googled customary anniversary

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<v Speaker 2>gifts and I realized that five year gifts are wood.

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<v Speaker 2>So let's do a wood episode, shall we. Let's lumber

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<v Speaker 2>up and celebrate with a fresh new app with my

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<v Speaker 2>favorite sawmill in the world. I have one, and thank

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<v Speaker 2>you to everyone who has supported the show via patreon

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<v Speaker 2>dot com slash ologies, where you can join for about

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<v Speaker 2>twenty five cents an episode and submit questions. Thank you

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<v Speaker 2>to everyone who makes sure you're subscribed so you get

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<v Speaker 2>new episodes, and everyone who rates and leaves reviews. I

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<v Speaker 2>read every single one, including this one from airbar Styles,

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<v Speaker 2>who just wrote I've been a fan for so long

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<v Speaker 2>but finally got myself to open this app and write

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<v Speaker 2>a review. This podcast is one of life's simple pleasures.

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<v Speaker 2>Thanks Internet Dad, You're welcome, kiddo. This week Silology would

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<v Speaker 2>so Zilology is a branch of dendrology, and it deals

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<v Speaker 2>with the structure of wood. It comes from a Greek

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<v Speaker 2>word zylon, which means wood cut and ready for use,

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<v Speaker 2>or firewood or timber, or it means planks or beams.

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<v Speaker 2>So Zilology lumber. Y'all, and I met this ologist in

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<v Speaker 2>the summer of twenty nineteen. It was a dry, dusty

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<v Speaker 2>July day, right after I moved to a house after

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<v Speaker 2>living in a studio apartment for a decade. But I

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<v Speaker 2>needed a kitchen table and Jarret and I wanted to

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<v Speaker 2>make some kind of like live edge table, and I

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<v Speaker 2>heard about Angel City Lumber, which sources its wood from

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<v Speaker 2>downed urban trees. And it's in the middle of this

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<v Speaker 2>industrial district in downtown LA. It's a sawmill and lumber

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<v Speaker 2>storage facility. It's this big, cavernous retail warehouse, just neatly

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<v Speaker 2>stacked with these thick planks and stumps and slabs. Each

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<v Speaker 2>one is labeled with a type of tree and the

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<v Speaker 2>neighborhood that it fell or was cut from. And so

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<v Speaker 2>we ended up buying a live or natural edged three

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<v Speaker 2>inch thick samil ash slab from Covina, and Jarrett standed

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<v Speaker 2>and finished it as our dining room table. So I

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<v Speaker 2>appreciate their mission every day, as do a bunch of

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<v Speaker 2>local furniture builders and carpenters and designers and woodworkers. And

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<v Speaker 2>I emailed the founder and I asked if he would

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<v Speaker 2>answer a bunch of lumber questions. And I headed there

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<v Speaker 2>last Saturday afternoon, just after they closed to the public

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<v Speaker 2>for the day. I was toting my little audio kit

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<v Speaker 2>wherever it's good place, I just want to like sniff everything.

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<v Speaker 2>It smells so good in here. We sat in the

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<v Speaker 2>office and we talked about everything from sawdust to tree diseases.

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<v Speaker 2>Two by four's salvaged lumber kiln drying, westward expansion, indigenous

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<v Speaker 2>forest management, cedar with walnut burls, bog logs, grain patterns,

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<v Speaker 2>and more. So, get ready to be acquainted with timber

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<v Speaker 2>with co founder of Angel City lumber ziologist Jeff Perry.

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<v Speaker 2>Jeff Perry, he him got it. Yeah, Now I've known

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<v Speaker 2>you for a couple of years. I came in to

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<v Speaker 2>get a slab, a table slab, fell in love with

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<v Speaker 2>right for a fifth anniversary for wood. I was like,

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<v Speaker 2>ha ha, this is perfect.

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<v Speaker 3>I love it. I mean, anyone that wants to talk wood,

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<v Speaker 3>they have my attention.

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<v Speaker 2>Would you call yourself a lumberjack? Who gets to call

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<v Speaker 2>themselves a lumberjack?

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<v Speaker 3>I think someone who is in a forest of some kind,

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<v Speaker 3>maybe an urban forest, felling trees is a lumberjack. And

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<v Speaker 3>I don't know if we can classify ourselves as that

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<v Speaker 3>because we're not felling trees. We're essentially hauling trees that

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<v Speaker 3>have fallen or are being taken down, or are being

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<v Speaker 3>taken down because of the disease, or they're being taken

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<v Speaker 3>down because of development, parish the thought, or like whatever reason.

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<v Speaker 3>But we're not out there with the chainsaw. As much

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<v Speaker 3>as I think it's romantic. I can't really call our

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<v Speaker 3>operation lumberjacks.

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<v Speaker 2>You're not Paul bunyaning out there in a flannel. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 3>No. Not typically an angel city.

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<v Speaker 2>That's obviously Los Angeles. When people think of Los Angeles,

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<v Speaker 2>I feel like they don't think of trees. Are you

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<v Speaker 2>from here originally?

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<v Speaker 3>I'm not from here, originally from the Boston area. Hm.

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<v Speaker 3>I'm from Reading, Massachusetts, which is north of Boston. I

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<v Speaker 3>moved here twenty years ago. Actually, next two weeks, it'll

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<v Speaker 3>be twenty years.

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<v Speaker 4>Hey.

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<v Speaker 2>The customary gift for a twentieth anniversary is porcelain dishware,

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<v Speaker 2>which I did not come prepared with. But in the

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<v Speaker 2>last two decades Jeff learned a lot about carpentry, furniture fabrication,

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<v Speaker 2>and he built an appreciation for different types of would.

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<v Speaker 3>So as a maker, kind of self taught for the

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<v Speaker 3>most part, not necessarily a great one, but a maker.

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<v Speaker 3>I had a couple of kids. I was in business

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<v Speaker 3>for myself. My son was a year and a half, no,

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<v Speaker 3>two and a half, and we were on a hike

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<v Speaker 3>in Altadena with our dog and I saw this tree

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<v Speaker 3>come down in a storm. I didn't see the tree fall,

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<v Speaker 3>but I saw it downed and we were walking by it,

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<v Speaker 3>and as I tell the story, I thought I was

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<v Speaker 3>a genius. I was. I thought I was the only

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<v Speaker 3>one to ever think like this was just like, I'm

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<v Speaker 3>going to build a line of furniture from this oak.

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<v Speaker 3>From this tree. It was a huge, co dominant live

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<v Speaker 3>oak that kind of splayed, you know, in the storm.

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<v Speaker 3>And I was like, this is it. So I went

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<v Speaker 3>to the ranger and I asked, you know, can I

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<v Speaker 3>take this tree that has fallen? And he was like, no,

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<v Speaker 3>that's what you can't. It's a county park, Like, you

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<v Speaker 3>can't do that. So he was very nice, and to

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<v Speaker 3>his credit, he was very patient with me. But I

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<v Speaker 3>went back a week later and I saw that the

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<v Speaker 3>tree had been To their credit, most of it was

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<v Speaker 3>still left there to decompose, but there were still parts

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<v Speaker 3>of it in the pathway that were bucked up.

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<v Speaker 2>Bucked up side note means cutting into logs, just chunking

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<v Speaker 2>it up.

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<v Speaker 3>And I just like had this moment of like I

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<v Speaker 3>just I literally at that time, had just paid eleven

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<v Speaker 3>dollars a board foot for oak from Illinois for this commission,

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<v Speaker 3>and I see this oak come down and it is

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<v Speaker 3>getting thrown away. Essentially it's being mulched. So then I

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<v Speaker 3>just kind of went down this rabbit hole like what

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<v Speaker 3>do you mean we just melted? What do you mean?

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<v Speaker 3>What do you mean? What do you mean? And then

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<v Speaker 3>I started doing some research and talking to people and

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<v Speaker 3>found out that a lot of like recycling coordinators around

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<v Speaker 3>the county or like, yeah, we mulch it. And then

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<v Speaker 3>I was like, no, this is unacceptable. So then it

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<v Speaker 3>started figuring out ways to you know, I would call

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<v Speaker 3>tree services first and foremost. Now they love trees, you know,

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<v Speaker 3>and they're they it just guts them when they have

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<v Speaker 3>to like see a tree come down and then ship

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<v Speaker 3>it and then buck it up into these enormous majestic

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<v Speaker 3>tree So I would call them and say like, hey, look,

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<v Speaker 3>if I had a truck and I could come by

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<v Speaker 3>and take a tree that you guys are felling, They're like, yeah,

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<v Speaker 3>when can you? Like can you when can you be here?

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<v Speaker 3>Really Like well, I don't have a truck yet, and

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<v Speaker 3>they're like all right, well, just like let's go. And

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<v Speaker 3>then I started calling some of the design community because

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<v Speaker 3>I'd worked with some designers and stuff like that as

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<v Speaker 3>a maker. I was like, you know, if you if

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<v Speaker 3>we had locally sourced lumber, would would that be something

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<v Speaker 3>that you'd be interested in? They're like, yes, we've been

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<v Speaker 3>wanting to have this kind of supply chain like that.

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<v Speaker 2>So it's like, okay, he found an investor via a

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<v Speaker 2>carpenter and woodworker lauras On, and that is how the

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<v Speaker 2>afterlife for downed trees, the heaven that is Angel City

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<v Speaker 2>Lumber came to be. But wait, let's buck up, because

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<v Speaker 2>there is so mulch to cover. When something gets mulched,

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<v Speaker 2>what happens to it? Like, is there any kind of argument, like,

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<v Speaker 2>but we need the mulch, or does that mulch go

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<v Speaker 2>into a landfill with dirty diapers and banana peels?

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<v Speaker 3>That's oh man, this is such a good question, so

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<v Speaker 3>on so many levels. I'm also going to try and

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<v Speaker 3>keep it brief. But so, mulch in and of itself

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<v Speaker 3>is great. It does a lot of great things. It

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<v Speaker 3>retains moisture, right, it suppresses weeds. The only thing is

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<v Speaker 3>that there's a there's a couple of things when a

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<v Speaker 3>tree dies. Right. First of all, we have we have,

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<v Speaker 3>i think culturally an aversion to death period. So I'm

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<v Speaker 3>going to put a pin in that.

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<v Speaker 5>Okay, But but what happens is is we just what

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<v Speaker 5>we panic and it's a nuisance, and it's a liability,

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<v Speaker 5>and it's cya, and we got to get rid of

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<v Speaker 5>this tree that has fallen.

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<v Speaker 2>I thought cya was a municipal term, but I looked

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<v Speaker 2>it up afterward and I think you just meant cover

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<v Speaker 2>your ass.

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<v Speaker 3>So the knee jerk reaction is get it out, cut

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<v Speaker 3>it up, melch it, get it, get it away, right,

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<v Speaker 3>So things like twigs leaves, some element of branches and limbs,

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<v Speaker 3>sure like melch, great, you know we can use that.

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<v Speaker 3>We can use every more soliba tree. When you have

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<v Speaker 3>a four inch diameter eighty five year olds, you know,

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<v Speaker 3>American elm, please don't mulch the trunk or the larger branches.

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<v Speaker 3>You know, it's just like it's to me, it's a

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<v Speaker 3>little sacrilege. It's not a little sacrilege. It's just kind

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<v Speaker 3>of it just is indicative of the disconnect we have

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<v Speaker 3>culturally as humans with trees, at least in the West.

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<v Speaker 3>So mulch, let's talk about it. What happens now is

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<v Speaker 3>every municipality I know in this area is required to

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<v Speaker 3>not throw away trees. They're not allowed to dispose in

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<v Speaker 3>a landfill, nor do they want to. These are all

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<v Speaker 3>good people, so they're like great. I mean, they used

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<v Speaker 3>to be able to bury trees, like like bucked up logs.

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<v Speaker 3>They used to excavate and bury them, and you know

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<v Speaker 3>they would decompose, but obviously with carbon emitting and methane

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<v Speaker 3>therefore it's just like no. So they put a stop

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<v Speaker 3>to that. So they melch. They melch everything much much mulch.

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<v Speaker 3>But now mulch it doesn't go in the landfill. Typically

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<v Speaker 3>it gets utile lies back into the community, either on

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<v Speaker 3>the sides of freeways or public tree wells. Or they

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<v Speaker 3>also have free malt drops for people in the community,

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<v Speaker 3>like if you've ever been in like Griffith Park, or

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<v Speaker 3>they have like a at the composting site, they have

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<v Speaker 3>like a free mulch pile. I didn't know that your

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<v Speaker 3>gardening and you're like, hey, oh, good to know I

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<v Speaker 3>need mulch.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I think I purchased mault recently. Figure out the

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<v Speaker 2>hell I do that?

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<v Speaker 4>Who knew?

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah? Yeah, So free.

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<v Speaker 2>Motes much in general, because wood and lumber is something

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<v Speaker 2>that's so needed and it's such a precious resource that

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<v Speaker 2>if we have something that is potentially lumber. Better to

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<v Speaker 2>use the thing that's got to get removed anyway, then

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<v Speaker 2>go fell a healthy tree.

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<v Speaker 3>Right agreed. When people come here, I love to see

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<v Speaker 3>their face when they go to the log deck and

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<v Speaker 3>they see the logs come in, especially when it was

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<v Speaker 3>their tree that was standing there a day or two before.

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<v Speaker 3>And they come by the log deck and it's like,

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<v Speaker 3>oh my god, look at all these trees. They're saying,

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<v Speaker 3>look at these trees. Right yeah. Then they see the

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<v Speaker 3>process of the logs coming from the log deck over

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<v Speaker 3>to the milling area. Then they see it from the

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<v Speaker 3>milling area go into the kilns, and then from the

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<v Speaker 3>kilns go to millworks, and then from millworks go to

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<v Speaker 3>either the retail shop or to a project, and it paints.

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<v Speaker 3>Obviously everyone knows who comes from trees, but they don't

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<v Speaker 3>think about it. They think wood shows up on a flatbed. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 3>you know. Yeah, And as I often say, it's like

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<v Speaker 3>the no one looks at the chicken nugget and thinks

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<v Speaker 3>of a chicken, you know. So it's the disconnect is

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<v Speaker 3>so real, and it's really cool to see people awake

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<v Speaker 3>to it here. So I bring that up because we

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<v Speaker 3>don't think of our trees as living beings. Typically, there's

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<v Speaker 3>very little honor involved in the efficiency of mulching in

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<v Speaker 3>my opinion. So again it's not to say the mulching

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<v Speaker 3>is bad. Melting is great, but if it's a byproduct

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<v Speaker 3>to a larger thing, then I think it's a lot.

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<v Speaker 2>More viable, which is why Angel City has a very

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<v Speaker 2>hyper local model. Part of their mission statement says that

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<v Speaker 2>the only way to shift an untenable way of harvesting

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<v Speaker 2>commercial lumber is that every local community produces its own

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<v Speaker 2>from its own local forest, which can be street trees

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<v Speaker 2>that have been felled due to development or disease or

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<v Speaker 2>from storm damage. But what about the lumber that we

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<v Speaker 2>are used to this stack at two by fours that

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<v Speaker 2>we pick up on maybe an ambitious Saturday morning from

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<v Speaker 2>the box store.

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<v Speaker 3>So commercial lumber is typically for the most part, you know,

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<v Speaker 3>especially for construction gay lumber. There are forests designated forests

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<v Speaker 3>now in Western culture that are secession planted, so they

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<v Speaker 3>are planted essentially usually for fifteen or twenty years, let

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<v Speaker 3>to grow, and then after the fifteen twenty years they

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<v Speaker 3>are harvested. Those trees typically because of demand, and it's

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<v Speaker 3>the same forests the world over, but because of demand,

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<v Speaker 3>they are planted harvested secession planted, meaning like once that

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<v Speaker 3>harvest is gone, they're going back and they're receding, they're

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<v Speaker 3>turning the soil. They're totally new trees. They are typically

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<v Speaker 3>for like free to grow. Secession planting means that you're

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<v Speaker 3>getting rid of all the underbrush. They don't want those

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<v Speaker 3>trees to compete for any resources. They want them to

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00:14:31.799 --> 00:14:35.360
<v Speaker 3>grow fat and straight and just pump out boards. So

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00:14:36.120 --> 00:14:39.080
<v Speaker 3>that's kind of where we're at with lumber, and that's

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00:14:39.120 --> 00:14:41.159
<v Speaker 3>how that's why we think of boards showing up on

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<v Speaker 3>a flatbed, but not as a tree. So then you

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<v Speaker 3>live in an urban community or even a rural one

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<v Speaker 3>and trees come down, and it's like, oh man, everyone's

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<v Speaker 3>so gutted about this tree. That is that you know,

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00:14:53.879 --> 00:14:57.120
<v Speaker 3>this tree that was standing was such a vital part

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<v Speaker 3>of their life, Like maybe it was there a tree

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00:14:59.120 --> 00:15:02.639
<v Speaker 3>in their front yard. Maybe their kids climbed on it. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 3>maybe they wept under it under sad times or whatever

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<v Speaker 3>it is. There's a tie, right, I love that tree.

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<v Speaker 3>But as soon as the tree comes down, it then

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<v Speaker 3>becomes a nuisance. Not necessarily if it's a tree that

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<v Speaker 3>you're tied to. But my point is when that tree

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<v Speaker 3>comes down and it's your tree and you are tied

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<v Speaker 3>to it, you have a connection to it. So then

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<v Speaker 3>when you are saying, look, we have a lot of

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<v Speaker 3>people here that you know, have a tree come down there, like,

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<v Speaker 3>we just want you to make something from it. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 3>especially for me, like please make me something of my tree.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 3>But there's a deep connection to that tree. So if

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<v Speaker 3>people were connected to all trees like they are connected

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<v Speaker 3>to that particular tree, then I think we would be

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<v Speaker 3>in a much different headspace and heart space than we

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<v Speaker 3>currently are. And not just trees, but it would be

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<v Speaker 3>for food. You know, it's the same thing like farmer

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<v Speaker 3>table or you know, ethically sourcing meat, right, I mean,

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00:15:54.240 --> 00:15:56.080
<v Speaker 3>it's all different things. When you have an animal that

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<v Speaker 3>you've grown and have a relationship with, and it's like

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00:15:59.240 --> 00:16:03.679
<v Speaker 3>a whole different Daniel Schmockenberger did this really cool talk

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<v Speaker 3>essentially on how the plow was kind of the beginning

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00:16:08.080 --> 00:16:13.559
<v Speaker 3>of like when agriculture. The agriculture revolution was like Okay,

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<v Speaker 3>now we have a plow that we need to have

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00:16:17.039 --> 00:16:21.720
<v Speaker 3>ox run to make sure that we're having enough grain

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00:16:21.919 --> 00:16:25.399
<v Speaker 3>planted for our civilization. But before that, there was an animism.

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<v Speaker 3>Everything had a spirit, everything was a soul and everything.

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00:16:30.120 --> 00:16:34.120
<v Speaker 3>But that switch from okay, but I really need you

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00:16:34.159 --> 00:16:37.440
<v Speaker 3>to like I really need you to make this this crop.

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00:16:37.559 --> 00:16:40.720
<v Speaker 3>So like, yeah, let's go start yoking the ox, start

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00:16:40.759 --> 00:16:44.159
<v Speaker 3>whipping the ox, start binding the horns of the ox.

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00:16:44.320 --> 00:16:46.879
<v Speaker 3>You know, it's just changes the relationship. And I think

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00:16:46.919 --> 00:16:49.159
<v Speaker 3>that the like where we're at now currently is like

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00:16:49.159 --> 00:16:52.879
<v Speaker 3>a holdover from that kind of mentality of yeah, it's true,

305
00:16:52.879 --> 00:16:54.360
<v Speaker 3>we need some boards. Let's go. Let's go, let's go,

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00:16:54.440 --> 00:16:58.240
<v Speaker 3>let's go. So anyway, I think by like our whole

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00:16:58.519 --> 00:17:03.080
<v Speaker 3>thing is like reconnecting to an animism, if you will.

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00:17:03.279 --> 00:17:06.640
<v Speaker 3>That is, you know, trying to really take a look

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00:17:06.920 --> 00:17:09.079
<v Speaker 3>at the trees in our community. In the urban forest.

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<v Speaker 3>You walk by them all the time, you drive by

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00:17:12.400 --> 00:17:15.000
<v Speaker 3>them all the time, You get shade, You get your

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00:17:15.039 --> 00:17:17.519
<v Speaker 3>kids under them in the summer, in the la summer,

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00:17:17.720 --> 00:17:21.200
<v Speaker 3>under them, so they protect your kids. Get acquainted with

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<v Speaker 3>a tree, you know, talk to a tree, be with

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00:17:25.200 --> 00:17:27.920
<v Speaker 3>a tree, touch a tree, think about a tree, look

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00:17:27.960 --> 00:17:32.960
<v Speaker 3>in the canopy. And then when the process of garnering

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00:17:33.039 --> 00:17:38.240
<v Speaker 3>a gift such as wood from that tree, you think

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00:17:38.279 --> 00:17:41.759
<v Speaker 3>about it differently, and I think that's the big shift

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<v Speaker 3>that needs to happen with lumber.

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<v Speaker 2>Did you read The Giving Tree as a child and

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00:17:45.440 --> 00:17:48.960
<v Speaker 2>saw your face off? Because that was like I was

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00:17:49.000 --> 00:17:51.160
<v Speaker 2>ready to walk into the ocean in like fourth grade.

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00:17:51.200 --> 00:17:55.599
<v Speaker 2>I was like, Oh, I mean, but it's not far off.

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<v Speaker 3>It's not it's not fair spot. And that's why it's

325
00:17:58.880 --> 00:18:01.440
<v Speaker 3>a killer because we know, oh, it's right on the money.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Just a side note. So this children's book was

327
00:18:04.640 --> 00:18:08.839
<v Speaker 2>initially rejected by a bunch of publishers until it finally

328
00:18:08.880 --> 00:18:11.440
<v Speaker 2>was released in nineteen sixty four, and it features the

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00:18:11.480 --> 00:18:14.559
<v Speaker 2>relationship between a boy and an apple tree, and as

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00:18:14.599 --> 00:18:17.759
<v Speaker 2>a kid, he climbs the branches and then later sells

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00:18:17.759 --> 00:18:21.599
<v Speaker 2>its apples, cuts limbs to build a house and a boat.

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00:18:22.039 --> 00:18:25.200
<v Speaker 2>Does he need a boat, and finally reduces this apple

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00:18:25.200 --> 00:18:29.079
<v Speaker 2>tree to a stump. Reading it for me feels like

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00:18:29.759 --> 00:18:33.160
<v Speaker 2>your grandpa spent his last seven dollars on your birthday

335
00:18:33.200 --> 00:18:35.359
<v Speaker 2>present and at the same moment you got kicked in

336
00:18:35.359 --> 00:18:38.400
<v Speaker 2>the stomach by a donkey. This book hurts me so much. Trees,

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00:18:38.519 --> 00:18:42.880
<v Speaker 2>I'm so sorry. So what happens to neighborhood trees that

338
00:18:42.920 --> 00:18:46.240
<v Speaker 2>have come down anyway, maybe taken in their prime by

339
00:18:46.640 --> 00:18:50.720
<v Speaker 2>condo development or a neighbor's fence or a weavil. Did

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00:18:50.799 --> 00:18:54.079
<v Speaker 2>you find it was difficult to get your hands on

341
00:18:54.160 --> 00:18:56.079
<v Speaker 2>these trees that were going to be mulched, or did

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00:18:56.119 --> 00:18:59.480
<v Speaker 2>you find more and more there were people who were saying, well,

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00:18:59.519 --> 00:19:02.400
<v Speaker 2>I have to take down the sycamore. Part of it fell,

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00:19:02.599 --> 00:19:04.359
<v Speaker 2>so can you come take it?

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00:19:05.039 --> 00:19:10.000
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, so, believe it or not, it was relatively easy

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00:19:10.160 --> 00:19:13.440
<v Speaker 3>to find people that were willing to give us tree logs.

347
00:19:14.279 --> 00:19:16.839
<v Speaker 3>It was relatively hard to get them to understand, hey,

348
00:19:16.880 --> 00:19:19.039
<v Speaker 3>we needed a certain length, we needed a certain diameter.

349
00:19:19.319 --> 00:19:20.920
<v Speaker 3>We'd end up with a lot of brush or small

350
00:19:20.960 --> 00:19:23.759
<v Speaker 3>diameter or tiny short lengths. We're like, awesome, thank you

351
00:19:23.799 --> 00:19:26.079
<v Speaker 3>so much. I don't know how to make wood from this.

352
00:19:27.440 --> 00:19:30.680
<v Speaker 3>But for the most part, people were super jazzed about

353
00:19:31.119 --> 00:19:33.720
<v Speaker 3>giving tree logs to us as far as the process went.

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00:19:34.680 --> 00:19:39.000
<v Speaker 3>Charles Durosum, my partner at the time, he researched and

355
00:19:39.039 --> 00:19:42.480
<v Speaker 3>found this method of parbuckling, which is essentially pulling up

356
00:19:42.599 --> 00:19:46.000
<v Speaker 3>next to a log with a trailer and on steel

357
00:19:46.079 --> 00:19:49.079
<v Speaker 3>ramps and a winch, rolling a log up onto a

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00:19:49.119 --> 00:19:51.400
<v Speaker 3>trailer deck. So that's how we did it for the

359
00:19:51.440 --> 00:19:56.240
<v Speaker 3>first few years. Now cranes are involved, which is a

360
00:19:56.240 --> 00:19:59.519
<v Speaker 3>lot easier most of the time. But anyway, the sourcing

361
00:19:59.759 --> 00:20:02.759
<v Speaker 3>was for the size we were starting out was actually

362
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<v Speaker 3>relatively easy, luckily.

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00:20:05.519 --> 00:20:08.039
<v Speaker 2>So I didn't know until I came here that you

364
00:20:08.079 --> 00:20:11.519
<v Speaker 2>can't just take a big log and cut it into

365
00:20:12.039 --> 00:20:15.000
<v Speaker 2>big pancakes and say we're good to go. Here. There's

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00:20:15.200 --> 00:20:17.640
<v Speaker 2>a drying that has to happen. You've got to store

367
00:20:17.680 --> 00:20:20.680
<v Speaker 2>it for a while. How does something go from a

368
00:20:20.720 --> 00:20:25.440
<v Speaker 2>timber crash to a table.

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00:20:25.480 --> 00:20:27.480
<v Speaker 3>Boy, that's a great question. How much time we get

370
00:20:27.480 --> 00:20:30.480
<v Speaker 3>on syderm. I'll make this kind of I'll make this

371
00:20:30.640 --> 00:20:35.079
<v Speaker 3>as like the most abridged version possible. But once you

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00:20:35.200 --> 00:20:40.079
<v Speaker 3>have a viable sawlog as they call them, if you're

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00:20:40.079 --> 00:20:43.559
<v Speaker 3>going to commoditize it, a tree that has produced a

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00:20:43.559 --> 00:20:47.440
<v Speaker 3>section of itself, and you put it on a mill,

375
00:20:48.880 --> 00:20:54.599
<v Speaker 3>typically on its side, there's typically three cuts, kind of

376
00:20:54.640 --> 00:20:57.119
<v Speaker 3>like if you were to think of it like a butcher.

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00:20:57.759 --> 00:21:01.160
<v Speaker 3>So there are planes on boards, there are are rift

378
00:21:01.240 --> 00:21:03.559
<v Speaker 3>so on boards, and there are quarters on boards. Okay,

379
00:21:03.960 --> 00:21:06.200
<v Speaker 3>so essentially if you're looking at the end of a board,

380
00:21:06.720 --> 00:21:08.519
<v Speaker 3>you're looking at the end grain. So the end grain

381
00:21:08.559 --> 00:21:12.000
<v Speaker 3>of the board is going to basically show the rings

382
00:21:12.039 --> 00:21:14.880
<v Speaker 3>of the tree, the growth rings of the tree. So

383
00:21:14.960 --> 00:21:20.960
<v Speaker 3>as you're looking at it, terrible example, terrible example, as

384
00:21:20.960 --> 00:21:22.359
<v Speaker 3>you're looking at it, this is better.

385
00:21:22.400 --> 00:21:25.799
<v Speaker 2>Excuse me, good thing that you got wood samples around.

386
00:21:25.920 --> 00:21:27.519
<v Speaker 3>Turns out this is one thing I got.

387
00:21:29.480 --> 00:21:34.480
<v Speaker 2>Okay, he grabbed some finished, perfectly angular planks and the

388
00:21:34.480 --> 00:21:36.079
<v Speaker 2>first one was plane Song.

389
00:21:36.400 --> 00:21:39.920
<v Speaker 3>You can see the growthings traveling mark. This is a lepopine.

390
00:21:39.920 --> 00:21:41.440
<v Speaker 3>It's a lot easier to see the growth rings on

391
00:21:41.480 --> 00:21:47.839
<v Speaker 3>conifers typically, So these are traveling with the edge right.

392
00:21:48.359 --> 00:21:51.039
<v Speaker 3>You can see they're almost lateral on the edge.

393
00:21:51.359 --> 00:21:53.519
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, they're almost like a horizontal.

394
00:21:52.920 --> 00:21:55.079
<v Speaker 3>Stripes sort of thank you exactly.

395
00:21:55.519 --> 00:21:58.559
<v Speaker 2>Again, that was plane Song, which is the most efficient

396
00:21:58.759 --> 00:22:01.799
<v Speaker 2>use of the whole log, and it's the most affordable cut,

397
00:22:02.079 --> 00:22:05.920
<v Speaker 2>and it has commonly what's called cathedral grain, So imagine

398
00:22:06.559 --> 00:22:09.640
<v Speaker 2>zebra stripes kind of in the shape of pope hats

399
00:22:09.839 --> 00:22:13.039
<v Speaker 2>that are nested in each other. That's cathedral grain. But

400
00:22:13.319 --> 00:22:16.839
<v Speaker 2>a different cut of wood is rifts on planks cut

401
00:22:16.880 --> 00:22:20.039
<v Speaker 2>from logs kind of an a radial pattern from the center.

402
00:22:20.240 --> 00:22:24.279
<v Speaker 3>Riftsan is this board here where the growth rings are

403
00:22:24.440 --> 00:22:28.000
<v Speaker 3>almost at a forty five degree angle right to the face,

404
00:22:29.000 --> 00:22:34.079
<v Speaker 3>and this one being quartersan. These are vertical and perpendicular

405
00:22:34.119 --> 00:22:34.559
<v Speaker 3>to the face.

406
00:22:34.680 --> 00:22:34.880
<v Speaker 1>Hah.

407
00:22:35.680 --> 00:22:39.119
<v Speaker 3>Quartersan is typically everyone's like Cortison Cortison or rifts on.

408
00:22:39.160 --> 00:22:41.880
<v Speaker 3>It's fancy the grain pattern, you get a little more figure,

409
00:22:42.240 --> 00:22:46.519
<v Speaker 3>but as far as building goes, plans on is simply

410
00:22:47.240 --> 00:22:50.480
<v Speaker 3>just as good. They're just different grain patterns. So in

411
00:22:50.599 --> 00:22:55.440
<v Speaker 3>choosing how you're going to cut a board also plays

412
00:22:55.440 --> 00:22:58.119
<v Speaker 3>into the next step, which is drying. So correct you

413
00:22:58.160 --> 00:23:00.519
<v Speaker 3>cut boards and you're like, okay, I got ad off

414
00:23:00.519 --> 00:23:02.960
<v Speaker 3>the mill, let's build something, and you're like, no, that's

415
00:23:02.960 --> 00:23:06.519
<v Speaker 3>actually not how it works. If you build with wet material,

416
00:23:06.880 --> 00:23:10.480
<v Speaker 3>if you're joining boards and stuff like that, they are

417
00:23:10.480 --> 00:23:13.880
<v Speaker 3>going to off gas water as they do over time slowly,

418
00:23:13.960 --> 00:23:16.480
<v Speaker 3>and as they off gas, they're gonna warp. So a

419
00:23:16.519 --> 00:23:20.119
<v Speaker 3>tree is typically, depending on the species, anywhere between sixty

420
00:23:20.160 --> 00:23:24.319
<v Speaker 3>five to seventy percent water, just like some other creatures

421
00:23:24.839 --> 00:23:30.319
<v Speaker 3>that we're familiar with, like me. And the cellular structure

422
00:23:30.400 --> 00:23:34.039
<v Speaker 3>of wood, there's basically two kinds of water. There's free

423
00:23:34.119 --> 00:23:37.319
<v Speaker 3>water and there's bound water. Okay, then the cellular structure

424
00:23:37.359 --> 00:23:39.759
<v Speaker 3>of the wood, so free water is the water that

425
00:23:39.920 --> 00:23:41.160
<v Speaker 3>is within the cell.

426
00:23:40.960 --> 00:23:45.079
<v Speaker 2>Walls, so it's just nestled within the cell. Imagine free

427
00:23:45.079 --> 00:23:48.799
<v Speaker 2>water kind of mingling around a room. But the bound

428
00:23:48.839 --> 00:23:52.039
<v Speaker 2>water is trapped in the walls itself. So of course

429
00:23:52.200 --> 00:23:54.920
<v Speaker 2>the water roaming the cell, not within the wall, is

430
00:23:55.039 --> 00:23:56.240
<v Speaker 2>faster to depart.

431
00:23:56.960 --> 00:23:59.960
<v Speaker 3>That evaporates relatively quick. So if we cut these boards,

432
00:24:00.079 --> 00:24:04.960
<v Speaker 3>we put them on little sticks, within a few months,

433
00:24:05.200 --> 00:24:09.880
<v Speaker 3>all that free water is going to evaporate from the wood. Yeah,

434
00:24:10.000 --> 00:24:14.039
<v Speaker 3>that's cool. Three months, not that long. However, the bound water,

435
00:24:14.119 --> 00:24:18.039
<v Speaker 3>which is the water trapped in the cell walls, is

436
00:24:18.119 --> 00:24:22.440
<v Speaker 3>way slower to come out, way slower. They say. Typically

437
00:24:22.480 --> 00:24:25.880
<v Speaker 3>it takes a year per inch thickness of wood to

438
00:24:26.039 --> 00:24:30.079
<v Speaker 3>air dry. Oh wow, So and that's the bound water.

439
00:24:30.319 --> 00:24:35.279
<v Speaker 3>M hmm. That's also typically like a northeast upper Midwest.

440
00:24:35.599 --> 00:24:38.200
<v Speaker 3>That's kind of a trope out here. It's not that way.

441
00:24:38.240 --> 00:24:41.599
<v Speaker 3>It's faster because it's drier and it's more arid. But anyway,

442
00:24:41.640 --> 00:24:44.160
<v Speaker 3>that's the general rule. So if your air drying wood,

443
00:24:44.400 --> 00:24:47.519
<v Speaker 3>you have to wait a long time before you can

444
00:24:47.519 --> 00:24:52.279
<v Speaker 3>build with it. There is now kiln drying technology where

445
00:24:52.319 --> 00:24:54.359
<v Speaker 3>you can put it into a dry kiln to speed

446
00:24:54.440 --> 00:24:57.359
<v Speaker 3>up the process. Just because you speed up the process

447
00:24:57.359 --> 00:24:59.440
<v Speaker 3>doesn't mean you can do it haphazardly. It is an

448
00:24:59.480 --> 00:25:02.559
<v Speaker 3>exact It's like baking. You can mess up would really

449
00:25:02.559 --> 00:25:04.519
<v Speaker 3>easy in a kiln, But if you play your cards right,

450
00:25:04.640 --> 00:25:07.480
<v Speaker 3>it speeds up the process, maintains the stability to the wood.

451
00:25:07.799 --> 00:25:09.799
<v Speaker 3>Then you can build with it. But building with it,

452
00:25:09.960 --> 00:25:12.160
<v Speaker 3>as a lot of people know, is also a thing

453
00:25:12.200 --> 00:25:13.720
<v Speaker 3>you have to Then now you have a rough so.

454
00:25:13.839 --> 00:25:18.440
<v Speaker 2>On board, not like the picture perfect finished boards he's holding,

455
00:25:18.519 --> 00:25:21.039
<v Speaker 2>which have had kind of a lumber yard glow up.

456
00:25:21.400 --> 00:25:25.440
<v Speaker 3>These have been surfaced and planed and straight and easy.

457
00:25:26.000 --> 00:25:27.519
<v Speaker 2>Those look on points.

458
00:25:27.279 --> 00:25:29.440
<v Speaker 3>On point, they come off the mill and out of

459
00:25:29.440 --> 00:25:31.279
<v Speaker 3>the kiln, they look like ooh, like what what do

460
00:25:31.400 --> 00:25:33.920
<v Speaker 3>I do? It's like rough and warped and all these things.

461
00:25:33.960 --> 00:25:36.599
<v Speaker 3>So you have to make it into to surface it

462
00:25:36.640 --> 00:25:39.279
<v Speaker 3>through various machines to dress it so you can make

463
00:25:39.319 --> 00:25:40.240
<v Speaker 3>it buildable.

464
00:25:40.480 --> 00:25:43.799
<v Speaker 2>So it's plumb. Everything's plumb, as they say, right, Yeah.

465
00:25:43.960 --> 00:25:47.359
<v Speaker 2>I love watching YouTube videos where people are doing renovations

466
00:25:47.359 --> 00:25:50.799
<v Speaker 2>and they shit talk how nothing's plumbed. I'm like, probably

467
00:25:50.839 --> 00:25:52.920
<v Speaker 2>if I built something, nothing would be plunged.

468
00:25:52.960 --> 00:25:54.200
<v Speaker 3>It's always the other person's work.

469
00:25:54.599 --> 00:25:55.000
<v Speaker 2>Somebody else.

470
00:25:56.680 --> 00:25:58.559
<v Speaker 3>Nothing's plumb. Nothing's plumbing this place.

471
00:25:58.759 --> 00:26:01.599
<v Speaker 4>Next I install stuff, it's every sixteen inches or so,

472
00:26:02.160 --> 00:26:04.000
<v Speaker 4>making sure they're plumb or vertical.

473
00:26:04.519 --> 00:26:07.279
<v Speaker 2>And you know, when it comes to the different kinds

474
00:26:07.279 --> 00:26:10.839
<v Speaker 2>of trees that are in urban environments, let's say versus rural,

475
00:26:11.440 --> 00:26:14.359
<v Speaker 2>is it so different in let's say La or San

476
00:26:14.359 --> 00:26:17.759
<v Speaker 2>Francisco or Boston as it would be in environs just

477
00:26:17.839 --> 00:26:20.000
<v Speaker 2>outside of it. Like, I know, we've got a lot

478
00:26:20.039 --> 00:26:23.240
<v Speaker 2>of live oak, We've got walnut, black walnut here in

479
00:26:23.240 --> 00:26:25.839
<v Speaker 2>southern California. We have a lot of sycamore and eucalyptus.

480
00:26:25.880 --> 00:26:29.039
<v Speaker 2>But I don't know if those are if those are native?

481
00:26:29.319 --> 00:26:31.920
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, no, it's these are. This is great. So, like

482
00:26:31.960 --> 00:26:33.720
<v Speaker 3>as far as species go, yeah.

483
00:26:33.519 --> 00:26:37.079
<v Speaker 2>Like, what do you find that what you are using

484
00:26:37.119 --> 00:26:40.799
<v Speaker 2>as a maker is different than what you're harvesting and

485
00:26:40.839 --> 00:26:41.799
<v Speaker 2>building from.

486
00:26:42.359 --> 00:26:43.720
<v Speaker 3>That's a great question. Why?

487
00:26:43.799 --> 00:26:44.119
<v Speaker 2>Thank you?

488
00:26:44.640 --> 00:26:44.720
<v Speaker 6>So?

489
00:26:45.400 --> 00:26:45.640
<v Speaker 3>Yes?

490
00:26:45.960 --> 00:26:46.079
<v Speaker 6>So?

491
00:26:46.680 --> 00:26:49.599
<v Speaker 3>Okay, So I'll answer this in two parts. The first

492
00:26:49.599 --> 00:26:52.200
<v Speaker 3>part is what species, Like, are there any species that

493
00:26:52.279 --> 00:26:56.640
<v Speaker 3>span kind of any urban community in our country? Let's say, yeah,

494
00:26:56.680 --> 00:27:00.200
<v Speaker 3>there are real, tried and true urban trees that are

495
00:27:00.200 --> 00:27:04.920
<v Speaker 3>resilient that you know, typically cities don't put a lot

496
00:27:04.960 --> 00:27:09.079
<v Speaker 3>of money into I'm not a judgment, it's just there's

497
00:27:09.119 --> 00:27:11.720
<v Speaker 3>no money, so they're not putting it toward the urban

498
00:27:11.759 --> 00:27:15.160
<v Speaker 3>forestry division. So they plant trees that are resilient, they

499
00:27:15.160 --> 00:27:19.519
<v Speaker 3>don't need much care. So London plane is like the

500
00:27:19.640 --> 00:27:22.480
<v Speaker 3>you know that London plane is like the stereotypical urban

501
00:27:22.519 --> 00:27:27.400
<v Speaker 3>tree that is like, man, they're beautiful, they grow, they're resilient,

502
00:27:27.559 --> 00:27:30.359
<v Speaker 3>they have a good shade, canopy, et cetera. So whether

503
00:27:30.480 --> 00:27:35.680
<v Speaker 3>you're in New York, San Francisco, wherever la you'll you'll

504
00:27:35.680 --> 00:27:37.880
<v Speaker 3>find a London plane. So there are species like that.

505
00:27:38.039 --> 00:27:40.960
<v Speaker 3>But I will say it is very easy to see

506
00:27:41.279 --> 00:27:44.759
<v Speaker 3>by the age of the trees of an area, which

507
00:27:44.839 --> 00:27:48.359
<v Speaker 3>trees were given twenty or ten or twenty years like

508
00:27:48.480 --> 00:27:49.759
<v Speaker 3>the go to urban trees.

509
00:27:50.559 --> 00:27:56.759
<v Speaker 2>They're like it was like Carab, very like totally see

510
00:27:56.799 --> 00:28:00.839
<v Speaker 2>the Carabology episode, which is, yes, a whole episode dedicated

511
00:28:00.880 --> 00:28:04.720
<v Speaker 2>to Carab trees and the not chocolate that they produce,

512
00:28:04.799 --> 00:28:06.519
<v Speaker 2>and I'll link that in the show notes. But yes,

513
00:28:06.599 --> 00:28:08.960
<v Speaker 2>you probably haven't seen a lot of this really beautiful

514
00:28:09.200 --> 00:28:13.720
<v Speaker 2>russet hearted Carab wood around, which sucks because it's beautiful

515
00:28:13.799 --> 00:28:16.759
<v Speaker 2>and there are thirty year old carab trees getting cut

516
00:28:16.839 --> 00:28:19.319
<v Speaker 2>down all the time on suburban streets.

517
00:28:19.599 --> 00:28:22.440
<v Speaker 3>We're using a lot of species that aren't typically on

518
00:28:22.480 --> 00:28:28.039
<v Speaker 3>the commercial market because they have been deemed culturally as

519
00:28:28.400 --> 00:28:32.640
<v Speaker 3>those aren't wood trees. Ah, those are canopy trees. Those

520
00:28:32.640 --> 00:28:36.240
<v Speaker 3>are ornamental trees, they're resilient whatever, but they're not wood trees. Right.

521
00:28:36.480 --> 00:28:40.319
<v Speaker 3>It's interesting because most of those resilient trees that are

522
00:28:40.319 --> 00:28:44.960
<v Speaker 3>getting planted deservant trees were somewhere, somehow, at some time,

523
00:28:45.880 --> 00:28:49.720
<v Speaker 3>a tree that civilizations built themselves on. You know. Yeah,

524
00:28:49.720 --> 00:28:53.400
<v Speaker 3>so no, it's not a cherry log from New York State,

525
00:28:54.279 --> 00:28:58.039
<v Speaker 3>but a Canary Island pine. Everyone's like, what is it?

526
00:28:58.039 --> 00:28:59.240
<v Speaker 3>I don't know what that is. And then you go

527
00:28:59.279 --> 00:29:01.039
<v Speaker 3>on the street and you're like, that's a Canary alan pine.

528
00:29:01.119 --> 00:29:03.079
<v Speaker 3>That's a Canary Island pine, and that's a canar Aalian pine.

529
00:29:03.079 --> 00:29:08.039
<v Speaker 3>They're like, oh yeah, oh those yes, those, So I'll

530
00:29:08.039 --> 00:29:12.839
<v Speaker 3>give you example. So this tree is so resinous, it's

531
00:29:12.880 --> 00:29:15.240
<v Speaker 3>just a natural resin. People call it sap, but it's

532
00:29:15.279 --> 00:29:17.880
<v Speaker 3>not actually sap. That's more of a deciduous thing. But

533
00:29:17.920 --> 00:29:22.000
<v Speaker 3>these conifers have this pitch, like a really thick, gooey

534
00:29:22.160 --> 00:29:25.160
<v Speaker 3>pitch and it just it just oozes out of this wood.

535
00:29:25.200 --> 00:29:27.160
<v Speaker 3>So everyone's like, oh God, and like I'm not building

536
00:29:27.200 --> 00:29:30.640
<v Speaker 3>furniture and this I'm doing things. Well, that's fine. You

537
00:29:30.680 --> 00:29:33.119
<v Speaker 3>don't have to build a windsor chair out of canary

538
00:29:33.279 --> 00:29:38.319
<v Speaker 3>and pine. However, the tree is incredible and that natural

539
00:29:38.400 --> 00:29:42.559
<v Speaker 3>resin in it. Why use pressure treated wood? Why pump

540
00:29:42.599 --> 00:29:45.480
<v Speaker 3>all these chemicals into a piece of lumber so that

541
00:29:45.920 --> 00:29:49.240
<v Speaker 3>when you're building your deck it's ground contact and doesn't

542
00:29:49.240 --> 00:29:53.400
<v Speaker 3>deteriorate when nature has already made a species of wood

543
00:29:53.480 --> 00:29:56.680
<v Speaker 3>that is pumped full of resin, natural resin that it

544
00:29:56.759 --> 00:30:00.559
<v Speaker 3>stands up to years of like earth contact and moisture,

545
00:30:00.640 --> 00:30:02.240
<v Speaker 3>you know what I mean. It's like we're not thinking

546
00:30:02.279 --> 00:30:04.960
<v Speaker 3>outside the box. And now we're like, no, guys use

547
00:30:05.119 --> 00:30:10.839
<v Speaker 3>this for groundtack, lumber, ground contact. So usually especially designers,

548
00:30:10.880 --> 00:30:12.599
<v Speaker 3>they come here and they're like, you gotta tell me

549
00:30:12.839 --> 00:30:15.279
<v Speaker 3>about these species. I don't know anything about these species.

550
00:30:15.400 --> 00:30:17.319
<v Speaker 3>And then we say, okay, So here's some best use

551
00:30:17.359 --> 00:30:21.200
<v Speaker 3>cases for eucalyptus, or here's some best case uses for

552
00:30:21.720 --> 00:30:26.519
<v Speaker 3>California sycamore or coast live oak, real fast coast live oak.

553
00:30:27.680 --> 00:30:31.359
<v Speaker 3>There's an elle based native California sycamore is also a

554
00:30:31.400 --> 00:30:33.960
<v Speaker 3>elle based in Native the right Perian tree, so it's

555
00:30:34.000 --> 00:30:35.039
<v Speaker 3>along river beds.

556
00:30:35.200 --> 00:30:37.799
<v Speaker 2>Ah. I didn't realize sycamore was Native.

557
00:30:37.960 --> 00:30:38.279
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

558
00:30:38.359 --> 00:30:41.039
<v Speaker 2>I was in Griffith Park as it trails once oh yeah,

559
00:30:41.079 --> 00:30:44.079
<v Speaker 2>and all of a sudden heard a crack, it a

560
00:30:44.160 --> 00:30:47.839
<v Speaker 2>boom and a sycamore. Have a sycamore just split intwo

561
00:30:47.920 --> 00:30:51.359
<v Speaker 2>out of nowhere on a sunny Sunday afternoon. It was

562
00:30:51.440 --> 00:30:53.720
<v Speaker 2>quite a thing to see. Everyone was fine, but I

563
00:30:53.799 --> 00:30:56.319
<v Speaker 2>was like, oh, wow, that was I've never seen a

564
00:30:56.359 --> 00:30:57.559
<v Speaker 2>tree fall in the park.

565
00:30:57.880 --> 00:30:58.119
<v Speaker 3>Wow.

566
00:30:58.119 --> 00:30:59.519
<v Speaker 2>But it did make us sound. But I was like,

567
00:30:59.599 --> 00:31:02.599
<v Speaker 2>I wondered, I wonder what they're going to do with

568
00:31:02.640 --> 00:31:05.279
<v Speaker 2>that now, Like who comes and you know they put

569
00:31:05.319 --> 00:31:07.119
<v Speaker 2>some caution tape up, but I don't know. I wonder

570
00:31:07.119 --> 00:31:08.200
<v Speaker 2>if that one ended up here.

571
00:31:08.440 --> 00:31:09.039
<v Speaker 3>It could have.

572
00:31:09.400 --> 00:31:12.559
<v Speaker 2>But when it comes to the model that you've done here,

573
00:31:12.920 --> 00:31:14.880
<v Speaker 2>does this happen in other places in the country?

574
00:31:14.960 --> 00:31:16.920
<v Speaker 3>Oh yeah, for sure, we are. We are definitely not

575
00:31:17.039 --> 00:31:19.759
<v Speaker 3>the only like people doing this at all. They're all

576
00:31:19.799 --> 00:31:22.880
<v Speaker 3>great people. But there's like New York City slab, there's

577
00:31:23.240 --> 00:31:28.720
<v Speaker 3>wood from the Hood in Minneapolis, Epilogue, LLC. And Oregon

578
00:31:29.200 --> 00:31:32.720
<v Speaker 3>Bay Area or Redwood and in the Bay Area there's

579
00:31:33.079 --> 00:31:38.920
<v Speaker 3>harvest lumber. I got the shirt on right here in Austin, Texas. Gosh,

580
00:31:38.960 --> 00:31:40.880
<v Speaker 3>there's a lot. There's a lot.

581
00:31:41.240 --> 00:31:43.279
<v Speaker 2>Jeff emailed me later with a list of folks that

582
00:31:43.319 --> 00:31:45.880
<v Speaker 2>he wished she mentioned, writing, there are a slew of

583
00:31:45.880 --> 00:31:48.640
<v Speaker 2>people across the country and continent in world who utilize

584
00:31:48.720 --> 00:31:51.359
<v Speaker 2>urban trees as lumber currently. And there are a few

585
00:31:51.359 --> 00:31:54.079
<v Speaker 2>others right here in southern California that he says he

586
00:31:54.119 --> 00:31:57.480
<v Speaker 2>would be remiss not to mention, like San Diego Urban Timber,

587
00:31:57.960 --> 00:32:02.160
<v Speaker 2>Lumber Cycle in San Diego, saw in Los Angeles, and

588
00:32:02.359 --> 00:32:05.720
<v Speaker 2>Straight Tree Revival in Anaheim. And I'll list all of

589
00:32:05.720 --> 00:32:07.640
<v Speaker 2>those on my website so you can just gouck it

590
00:32:07.720 --> 00:32:11.480
<v Speaker 2>all of their pretty planks, knowing that such gorgeous timber

591
00:32:11.680 --> 00:32:16.240
<v Speaker 2>was saved from maybe just decomposing in a forgotten mulch mountain.

592
00:32:16.759 --> 00:32:20.519
<v Speaker 2>What about different woods for different applications? I am not

593
00:32:21.240 --> 00:32:25.799
<v Speaker 2>a carpentryst by any manner of speaking. What kind of

594
00:32:25.839 --> 00:32:28.119
<v Speaker 2>wood is good for floors? People are making a lot

595
00:32:28.119 --> 00:32:31.880
<v Speaker 2>of things out of palettes from behind dumpsters. What are

596
00:32:32.039 --> 00:32:35.039
<v Speaker 2>different types of wood best suited for?

597
00:32:35.680 --> 00:32:40.359
<v Speaker 3>So good? Okay, boy, that's it. It's kind of a

598
00:32:40.440 --> 00:32:43.640
<v Speaker 3>rap sheet. I'll speak as generally as I can. Basically

599
00:32:43.920 --> 00:32:47.759
<v Speaker 3>for flooring, since you brought up flooring, we use typically

600
00:32:48.559 --> 00:32:53.839
<v Speaker 3>various species of eucalyptus and coast live oak. Those are

601
00:32:53.880 --> 00:32:58.359
<v Speaker 3>our two kind of go tos. Why because they're very

602
00:32:58.640 --> 00:33:03.359
<v Speaker 3>hard and dense. Eucalyptus is also very close grain. It

603
00:33:03.480 --> 00:33:06.839
<v Speaker 3>can hold up to high foot traffic. They're also not

604
00:33:06.920 --> 00:33:12.799
<v Speaker 3>necessarily the most stable woods as boards. Solid wood is

605
00:33:12.839 --> 00:33:15.839
<v Speaker 3>going to be roughly five eighths to three quarter in thickness,

606
00:33:16.319 --> 00:33:20.079
<v Speaker 3>no problem. Or even if you're making an engineered like

607
00:33:19.759 --> 00:33:24.960
<v Speaker 3>a ware layer, which is roughly four millimeters thick, no problem.

608
00:33:25.319 --> 00:33:28.519
<v Speaker 3>So they're perfect for that. And again the durability is great.

609
00:33:28.720 --> 00:33:31.240
<v Speaker 3>So those two, those are species that typically on the

610
00:33:31.240 --> 00:33:32.880
<v Speaker 3>commercial market people are like what am I gonna do

611
00:33:32.880 --> 00:33:35.400
<v Speaker 3>with this? But like they are perfect. I mean these

612
00:33:35.440 --> 00:33:38.039
<v Speaker 3>these are pointing to the floor because these are gorgeous.

613
00:33:38.519 --> 00:33:42.319
<v Speaker 2>A eucalyptus floor. Who knew, Jeff.

614
00:33:42.319 --> 00:33:44.880
<v Speaker 3>Takes a lot of foot traffic in here. But anyway,

615
00:33:45.599 --> 00:33:48.759
<v Speaker 3>so that's one. We have a lot of makers and

616
00:33:48.799 --> 00:33:52.799
<v Speaker 3>furniture makers that come in here. There are certain species

617
00:33:52.799 --> 00:33:57.759
<v Speaker 3>that are really great for joinery and making furniture. Shamel

618
00:33:57.799 --> 00:34:01.519
<v Speaker 3>ash like your table yep is a perfect one. Are

619
00:34:01.799 --> 00:34:04.960
<v Speaker 3>California sycamore. The native is also a really big fan

620
00:34:05.039 --> 00:34:07.319
<v Speaker 3>favorite for that. We have a lot of American elm,

621
00:34:07.720 --> 00:34:11.519
<v Speaker 3>Chinese elm, Siberian elm. Those are fantastic. The native. There's

622
00:34:11.519 --> 00:34:14.760
<v Speaker 3>a native black walnut that is also great. So there's

623
00:34:15.039 --> 00:34:17.559
<v Speaker 3>that's a whole other like a it's like basically like

624
00:34:17.599 --> 00:34:22.719
<v Speaker 3>a deciduous, machineable stable species. Those are great for making.

625
00:34:23.280 --> 00:34:26.960
<v Speaker 3>We use a ton of pine, which you know, everyone

626
00:34:27.000 --> 00:34:30.760
<v Speaker 3>has this preconceived notion about pine. They're usually thinking about

627
00:34:30.920 --> 00:34:34.159
<v Speaker 3>softer like Eastern white pines. Again, this is like a

628
00:34:34.199 --> 00:34:37.079
<v Speaker 3>cultural holdover, by the way, I love Eastern white pine.

629
00:34:37.119 --> 00:34:40.719
<v Speaker 3>But anyway, the pines that we get here are again

630
00:34:41.039 --> 00:34:45.360
<v Speaker 3>are really robust trees from other parts of the world.

631
00:34:45.400 --> 00:34:48.840
<v Speaker 3>So a Leppo pine is a Syrian and Lemonese you know,

632
00:34:48.920 --> 00:34:53.079
<v Speaker 3>syndemic to those areas super dense, especially for a pine,

633
00:34:53.159 --> 00:34:56.039
<v Speaker 3>like it's a hard wood. It's not a hardwood, but

634
00:34:56.079 --> 00:34:59.360
<v Speaker 3>it is a hard wood. The same with Italian stone pine.

635
00:35:00.000 --> 00:35:01.880
<v Speaker 3>On final, as I said earlier, we use those for

636
00:35:01.920 --> 00:35:06.360
<v Speaker 3>a lot of big, chunky landscape timbers. Okay, so we

637
00:35:06.440 --> 00:35:11.239
<v Speaker 3>have a lot of Terramotal Landscape represent They love calling

638
00:35:11.440 --> 00:35:15.679
<v Speaker 3>those fixtures chunks as deemed by a Tarramoto.

639
00:35:15.599 --> 00:35:18.719
<v Speaker 2>Tarramoto Landscape And my friend David Newsom at wild Yards

640
00:35:18.760 --> 00:35:21.920
<v Speaker 2>Project dot org also do a lot of beautiful native

641
00:35:22.039 --> 00:35:25.000
<v Speaker 2>landscapes and they use a lot of reclaimed materials, And

642
00:35:25.079 --> 00:35:27.559
<v Speaker 2>I'll link them on my site because their handiwork has

643
00:35:27.679 --> 00:35:31.599
<v Speaker 2>personally transformed my hill in my backyard of invasive weeds

644
00:35:31.760 --> 00:35:36.559
<v Speaker 2>into what's now a pollinator habitat and a hub for critters.

645
00:35:36.840 --> 00:35:40.719
<v Speaker 2>But back to inside and what was under our feet?

646
00:35:40.920 --> 00:35:43.440
<v Speaker 2>What is hardwood by the way, because you said they're hardwood,

647
00:35:43.519 --> 00:35:44.599
<v Speaker 2>but not hardwood, that's.

648
00:35:44.519 --> 00:35:49.840
<v Speaker 3>A great question. So hardwoods hardwood as in one word,

649
00:35:50.079 --> 00:35:54.000
<v Speaker 3>hardwood is typically a designation for a wood from a

650
00:35:54.039 --> 00:36:02.920
<v Speaker 3>deciduous tree. Oh okay, and softwood is typically a denomination

651
00:36:03.039 --> 00:36:03.920
<v Speaker 3>for a conifer.

652
00:36:04.719 --> 00:36:05.599
<v Speaker 2>I had no idea.

653
00:36:05.800 --> 00:36:07.159
<v Speaker 3>Typically I had no idea.

654
00:36:07.239 --> 00:36:09.840
<v Speaker 2>So when someone says that they have hardwood floors, let's say, yep,

655
00:36:09.840 --> 00:36:12.599
<v Speaker 2>my apartment is hardwood floors. Does that mean it's going

656
00:36:12.679 --> 00:36:14.960
<v Speaker 2>to be a walnut and not a pine or is

657
00:36:14.960 --> 00:36:16.360
<v Speaker 2>that just totally different?

658
00:36:16.400 --> 00:36:18.840
<v Speaker 3>Oh okay, yeah, it could be you know, like obviously

659
00:36:18.880 --> 00:36:21.679
<v Speaker 3>like the yeah, a walnut, like the commercial, the white

660
00:36:21.719 --> 00:36:24.800
<v Speaker 3>oaks and the red oaks, beach maple, you know all

661
00:36:24.840 --> 00:36:26.800
<v Speaker 3>those those are hardwoods.

662
00:36:27.159 --> 00:36:30.320
<v Speaker 2>Haha. Does it ever pain you to see certain woods

663
00:36:30.679 --> 00:36:34.679
<v Speaker 2>trend one year and then be like, ugh, everyone rip

664
00:36:34.679 --> 00:36:37.400
<v Speaker 2>out your white oak floors. They're so last year? Like,

665
00:36:37.440 --> 00:36:38.599
<v Speaker 2>does that ever just kill you?

666
00:36:38.760 --> 00:36:41.679
<v Speaker 3>I love all wood, I love all trees, so but

667
00:36:41.800 --> 00:36:45.840
<v Speaker 3>I get less. I get less miffed about the trending

668
00:36:45.880 --> 00:36:48.239
<v Speaker 3>from a tree standpoint, and way more from a from

669
00:36:48.239 --> 00:36:51.280
<v Speaker 3>a human standpoint. Yeah, like the walnut, Like every woodworker

670
00:36:51.639 --> 00:36:54.239
<v Speaker 3>and everyone at a mill in the country is like,

671
00:36:54.400 --> 00:36:58.559
<v Speaker 3>I know you love walnut. Yeah, it's not walnut's fault.

672
00:36:58.599 --> 00:37:01.159
<v Speaker 3>That is beautiful and all the things, but it's just like, guys,

673
00:37:01.199 --> 00:37:06.320
<v Speaker 3>come on, we gotta branch out. I gotta branch out. Yeah, hey, guys,

674
00:37:06.400 --> 00:37:11.199
<v Speaker 3>it's so ingredined. Jeez, I'm gonna stop. You gonna leave

675
00:37:11.239 --> 00:37:12.719
<v Speaker 3>it alone.

676
00:37:14.119 --> 00:37:16.800
<v Speaker 2>But would you say that was there? Has there ever

677
00:37:16.840 --> 00:37:19.199
<v Speaker 2>been a wood that's really surprised you that you're like,

678
00:37:19.840 --> 00:37:21.440
<v Speaker 2>who knew this was such a good one?

679
00:37:21.639 --> 00:37:25.400
<v Speaker 3>Can I can? I? Yes, I'm gonna go and go off.

680
00:37:25.599 --> 00:37:31.159
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so eucalyptus, Okay, buckle up, boy, howdy?

681
00:37:31.440 --> 00:37:35.559
<v Speaker 3>This ties in for culturally Again, you asked what eucalyptus earlier,

682
00:37:35.559 --> 00:37:38.280
<v Speaker 3>So eucalyptus is endemic to Australia. I'm gonna I'm gonna

683
00:37:38.400 --> 00:37:43.360
<v Speaker 3>backtrack for a second. People woodworkers, woodworker people are like,

684
00:37:43.519 --> 00:37:48.519
<v Speaker 3>eucalyptus is crap. Oh that wrap, yeah, crap, crap, wood

685
00:37:48.599 --> 00:37:53.039
<v Speaker 3>can't do anything with It's crap, unstable, scrap, cell collapse, crappy.

686
00:37:54.440 --> 00:37:59.480
<v Speaker 3>So that has just been anyone you talk to like eucalypts, alright,

687
00:37:59.519 --> 00:38:01.480
<v Speaker 3>well you can't you like, you know, you see people

688
00:38:01.480 --> 00:38:03.519
<v Speaker 3>around town and that a tree comes down or eucalyptus

689
00:38:03.599 --> 00:38:05.199
<v Speaker 3>comes down, and they know what we do and they're like, ah,

690
00:38:05.280 --> 00:38:09.559
<v Speaker 3>well two bag is usually just right, like yeah, well

691
00:38:09.639 --> 00:38:16.679
<v Speaker 3>actually wrong because what we have kind of really gone

692
00:38:16.679 --> 00:38:21.599
<v Speaker 3>down the rabbit hole with is making people see that

693
00:38:21.639 --> 00:38:27.880
<v Speaker 3>eucalyptus is fantastic. And while I know from an ecological standpoint,

694
00:38:28.000 --> 00:38:30.079
<v Speaker 3>there's and I don't claim to be an ecologist, and

695
00:38:30.119 --> 00:38:32.280
<v Speaker 3>I don't claim to know like all the all the

696
00:38:32.360 --> 00:38:36.159
<v Speaker 3>ends in the outs from a flora and fauna standpoint,

697
00:38:36.199 --> 00:38:39.880
<v Speaker 3>locally and all that it's allelopathic, meaning like there's not

698
00:38:40.199 --> 00:38:42.880
<v Speaker 3>always opportunity for other plants to grow under its canopy

699
00:38:42.920 --> 00:38:49.039
<v Speaker 3>and stuff like this. Everyone hates this tree, okay, except

700
00:38:50.039 --> 00:38:53.719
<v Speaker 3>except for Koalis, except for Australians of any kind human

701
00:38:54.000 --> 00:38:56.480
<v Speaker 3>in the more than human world in Australia love eucalypse.

702
00:38:57.079 --> 00:39:01.840
<v Speaker 3>It's in the West we hate them and they're invasive

703
00:39:01.880 --> 00:39:06.320
<v Speaker 3>and they're all these things. So quick, very quick, little

704
00:39:06.719 --> 00:39:08.760
<v Speaker 3>a bridge version of how it got here.

705
00:39:09.039 --> 00:39:09.960
<v Speaker 2>Bring it on, dude.

706
00:39:10.239 --> 00:39:15.920
<v Speaker 3>So American settlers, mostly of the European setlar ancestry variety

707
00:39:17.360 --> 00:39:23.159
<v Speaker 3>in their DNA wooded areas, woods right woods for energy

708
00:39:23.440 --> 00:39:27.960
<v Speaker 3>via fire, woods for building materials as wood, wood is wood,

709
00:39:27.960 --> 00:39:31.800
<v Speaker 3>wod wood, wood, wood right post you know, thirteen colonies

710
00:39:31.920 --> 00:39:35.159
<v Speaker 3>or a country now and it's just harvest your pants

711
00:39:35.159 --> 00:39:41.119
<v Speaker 3>off with wood and manifest destiny up through Iowa, which

712
00:39:41.159 --> 00:39:44.360
<v Speaker 3>is the forest has been so decimated because of you

713
00:39:44.400 --> 00:39:47.159
<v Speaker 3>know again moving westward. Now, this is where the US

714
00:39:47.239 --> 00:39:49.599
<v Speaker 3>for service is emerging, and there's like talks like, hey,

715
00:39:49.599 --> 00:39:53.480
<v Speaker 3>what are we going to do here? And there's this

716
00:39:53.559 --> 00:39:57.800
<v Speaker 3>talk of like a like a timber famine potentially so

717
00:39:58.440 --> 00:40:04.079
<v Speaker 3>around this time as well. Now the trans Transcontinental Railroad

718
00:40:04.119 --> 00:40:05.880
<v Speaker 3>has got by the way. I'm just a quick little

719
00:40:05.920 --> 00:40:09.400
<v Speaker 3>plug here. There's an author named Jared Farmer, who wrote

720
00:40:09.440 --> 00:40:13.320
<v Speaker 3>a book called Trees and Paradise that is incredible. But

721
00:40:13.400 --> 00:40:16.079
<v Speaker 3>again I'm giving you the very nuts and bolts version.

722
00:40:16.280 --> 00:40:20.000
<v Speaker 3>But trans continental railroad at this point goes from east

723
00:40:20.039 --> 00:40:24.039
<v Speaker 3>coast to Iowa, stops in Iowa, and everyone's like, we

724
00:40:24.039 --> 00:40:26.960
<v Speaker 3>got to get it from Iowa to Frisco. Okay, because

725
00:40:26.960 --> 00:40:31.400
<v Speaker 3>it's not transcontinental until it gets to the transit So great,

726
00:40:31.440 --> 00:40:34.760
<v Speaker 3>but there's a looming timber famine, and train tracks need ties,

727
00:40:34.960 --> 00:40:38.199
<v Speaker 3>and they need split rail fencing, and we don't have

728
00:40:38.199 --> 00:40:42.880
<v Speaker 3>any trees to do it with and supply for everything else. Right,

729
00:40:43.880 --> 00:40:45.320
<v Speaker 3>just so happens that this is around the time of

730
00:40:45.320 --> 00:40:47.880
<v Speaker 3>the gold rush. So not only that, but now you've

731
00:40:47.920 --> 00:40:49.559
<v Speaker 3>got all these people from the East coast through the

732
00:40:49.599 --> 00:40:53.760
<v Speaker 3>Midwest going like get some gold. So they're going hell

733
00:40:53.840 --> 00:40:56.760
<v Speaker 3>fire out to the west coast, right. Well, not everyone

734
00:40:56.840 --> 00:41:01.360
<v Speaker 3>settles in the you know, by the plasters. They all

735
00:41:01.440 --> 00:41:03.480
<v Speaker 3>kind of you know, to come down on the central

736
00:41:03.519 --> 00:41:09.360
<v Speaker 3>coast and southern California, and there's not any trees. The

737
00:41:09.440 --> 00:41:14.280
<v Speaker 3>native landscape is brown hills and chaparral and occasional live

738
00:41:14.280 --> 00:41:21.639
<v Speaker 3>oaks and ryparian sycamores or white alders. In the elevations sidebar.

739
00:41:22.960 --> 00:41:26.440
<v Speaker 3>People have been living here for millennia with no trees.

740
00:41:26.679 --> 00:41:27.719
<v Speaker 3>Just fine. Yeah.

741
00:41:27.840 --> 00:41:30.599
<v Speaker 2>Yes, in the Southwest there are many river valleys that

742
00:41:30.679 --> 00:41:33.920
<v Speaker 2>have cottonwood and sycamore and willow and mesquite, and there

743
00:41:33.920 --> 00:41:37.400
<v Speaker 2>are varied biomes and forests, but the climate and the

744
00:41:37.440 --> 00:41:41.679
<v Speaker 2>ecosystem is less densely forested out west than buck East.

745
00:41:41.960 --> 00:41:44.280
<v Speaker 2>But on my website all link a short documentary about

746
00:41:44.400 --> 00:41:48.599
<v Speaker 2>indigenous ecology called Spirit of the Trees Continuing Traditions of

747
00:41:48.719 --> 00:41:52.159
<v Speaker 2>Southwest tribes, and there's much more on land management and

748
00:41:52.280 --> 00:41:56.280
<v Speaker 2>forests in the Indigenous Fire Ecology episode with doctor Amy Christiansen,

749
00:41:56.519 --> 00:41:58.000
<v Speaker 2>which I'll link in the show notes too.

750
00:41:58.239 --> 00:42:03.679
<v Speaker 3>But I digress. So the European settler mindset is like trees, trees, trees, trees, trees, trees, trees,

751
00:42:03.679 --> 00:42:09.000
<v Speaker 3>How can people survive out here? So they're thinking about

752
00:42:09.000 --> 00:42:11.519
<v Speaker 3>the Timmer famine and they're thinking, we have to settle

753
00:42:11.559 --> 00:42:13.880
<v Speaker 3>down here, and we can't do that without trees. We

754
00:42:13.880 --> 00:42:15.840
<v Speaker 3>don't have any firewood, we don't have any building material,

755
00:42:15.880 --> 00:42:18.599
<v Speaker 3>we don't have any anything. So we got to get

756
00:42:18.639 --> 00:42:20.719
<v Speaker 3>some trees planted and they not only that, but they

757
00:42:20.760 --> 00:42:23.400
<v Speaker 3>have to grow fast, and we have to harvest fast.

758
00:42:24.199 --> 00:42:27.639
<v Speaker 2>Oh man, right, it's a tree. Trees don't grow fast.

759
00:42:27.800 --> 00:42:30.400
<v Speaker 2>It's the one thing they don't do, right, we need

760
00:42:30.440 --> 00:42:34.000
<v Speaker 2>some faster snails around here. It's a snail. Let the

761
00:42:34.039 --> 00:42:34.559
<v Speaker 2>thing grow.

762
00:42:34.840 --> 00:42:36.039
<v Speaker 3>Let the thing grow.

763
00:42:36.679 --> 00:42:39.400
<v Speaker 2>So they're like, what's the what's the microwave version of

764
00:42:39.440 --> 00:42:39.880
<v Speaker 2>a tree?

765
00:42:40.000 --> 00:42:42.960
<v Speaker 3>Pretty much now this is you know, and to be fair,

766
00:42:43.000 --> 00:42:46.199
<v Speaker 3>this is after they've also decimated all the redwoods and

767
00:42:46.440 --> 00:42:50.519
<v Speaker 3>cedars in the Pacific northwest. Right, it's chewing north California.

768
00:42:50.519 --> 00:42:55.039
<v Speaker 3>It's chewing through them lumber locusts, lumber locust like just

769
00:42:55.320 --> 00:42:58.079
<v Speaker 3>I can't even my heart. So anyway, they don't know

770
00:42:59.199 --> 00:43:04.119
<v Speaker 3>exactly who and you know, brought them in. But basically

771
00:43:04.519 --> 00:43:07.400
<v Speaker 3>Americans started visiting seed banks in Australia. They had learned

772
00:43:07.440 --> 00:43:10.679
<v Speaker 3>they had already done some plantings in Europe with rave reviews,

773
00:43:10.679 --> 00:43:12.519
<v Speaker 3>et cetera. So they're like, we got to get our

774
00:43:12.559 --> 00:43:15.159
<v Speaker 3>hands on some of these eucalyptus seeds. We're going They

775
00:43:15.239 --> 00:43:18.840
<v Speaker 3>got some now. Also, seed banks weren't a sophisticated so

776
00:43:18.840 --> 00:43:21.440
<v Speaker 3>they didn't have a great crasp on which species. There's

777
00:43:21.480 --> 00:43:25.199
<v Speaker 3>over seven hundred plus species of eucalyptus. Oh in Australia,

778
00:43:25.239 --> 00:43:29.119
<v Speaker 3>so you know, it's hard to keep track. In the US,

779
00:43:29.360 --> 00:43:34.119
<v Speaker 3>there's roughly two hundred plus still a lot, so it's confusing.

780
00:43:34.320 --> 00:43:37.119
<v Speaker 3>But anyway, the point is is they they brought them

781
00:43:37.119 --> 00:43:43.639
<v Speaker 3>in through San Francisco Bay started planting these eucalypse Okay, Now,

782
00:43:43.840 --> 00:43:48.400
<v Speaker 3>there were like a lot of people that were fervent

783
00:43:48.639 --> 00:43:53.159
<v Speaker 3>about growing these. There was like flyers everywhere there were.

784
00:43:53.199 --> 00:43:56.280
<v Speaker 3>People were taking investment opportunities, like, look, you want to

785
00:43:56.320 --> 00:43:59.760
<v Speaker 3>make some money. This is a surefire tree. These trees

786
00:43:59.800 --> 00:44:04.400
<v Speaker 3>grow sixty feet in six years. And by the way,

787
00:44:04.440 --> 00:44:11.199
<v Speaker 3>this blue gum Eucalyptus Eucalyptus globulus grows the fastest, like

788
00:44:11.199 --> 00:44:14.280
<v Speaker 3>it's a rocket tree. So we are in luck. We

789
00:44:14.320 --> 00:44:16.599
<v Speaker 3>got it all figured out. They started, they started planting

790
00:44:16.639 --> 00:44:22.079
<v Speaker 3>eucalyptus the entire West coast, getting investment money. We're gonna

791
00:44:22.119 --> 00:44:24.840
<v Speaker 3>make that timber, We're gonna make that money. We're gonna

792
00:44:24.840 --> 00:44:29.480
<v Speaker 3>get that railroad gone. And what happens. They harvest them

793
00:44:29.800 --> 00:44:32.800
<v Speaker 3>after fifteen twenty years, which is typical for deciduous trees.

794
00:44:33.840 --> 00:44:38.000
<v Speaker 3>Eucalyptus is a myrtle, a little different ballgame, and it's

795
00:44:38.039 --> 00:44:41.239
<v Speaker 3>also it grows interlocking grain, so it doesn't grow quite

796
00:44:41.239 --> 00:44:43.599
<v Speaker 3>the same way, which is also like these variables that

797
00:44:43.639 --> 00:44:47.760
<v Speaker 3>no one was really thinking about. So they're harvesting them young,

798
00:44:48.119 --> 00:44:52.559
<v Speaker 3>and they're they're milling them up sawmills and they're letting

799
00:44:52.559 --> 00:44:56.320
<v Speaker 3>them dry air dry, and they're warping and they're checking

800
00:44:56.440 --> 00:45:01.119
<v Speaker 3>and they're splitting and they're like oh what. And people

801
00:45:01.159 --> 00:45:04.320
<v Speaker 3>have like put all this money into it. Right now,

802
00:45:04.400 --> 00:45:07.920
<v Speaker 3>this tree that was going to be a savior. People

803
00:45:07.960 --> 00:45:10.840
<v Speaker 3>were using the oils and they were fixing their fevers

804
00:45:10.840 --> 00:45:13.039
<v Speaker 3>and they were like this magic tree. Look at this tree.

805
00:45:13.800 --> 00:45:19.119
<v Speaker 3>We have trees now went from that to this tree.

806
00:45:19.880 --> 00:45:23.480
<v Speaker 3>It's invasive, it grows everywhere. Now it's shit ass wood.

807
00:45:24.199 --> 00:45:27.000
<v Speaker 3>It ruined everything. We can't harvest any So now there's

808
00:45:27.000 --> 00:45:31.440
<v Speaker 3>like forests up the coasts right and now they're just like, well,

809
00:45:32.079 --> 00:45:36.400
<v Speaker 3>I can't use that. So that's the holdover mentality.

810
00:45:37.079 --> 00:45:40.239
<v Speaker 2>People still have a grudge still, they're like, yeah, that

811
00:45:40.280 --> 00:45:42.760
<v Speaker 2>one did me dirty right undred years.

812
00:45:42.559 --> 00:45:46.280
<v Speaker 3>Ago, two hundred years ago or something, and it and

813
00:45:46.320 --> 00:45:49.800
<v Speaker 3>it really makes you think about like culturally, like we

814
00:45:49.840 --> 00:45:53.320
<v Speaker 3>pass on these like perspectives and these perceptions.

815
00:45:53.880 --> 00:45:55.920
<v Speaker 2>I always wondered how we got so many of them.

816
00:45:55.920 --> 00:45:57.719
<v Speaker 2>I've got one of my my neighbors got one over

817
00:45:57.719 --> 00:46:00.400
<v Speaker 2>in my backyard. One day might fall on my head.

818
00:46:00.480 --> 00:46:04.000
<v Speaker 2>I don't know, Loo. It's nice in good shade. The

819
00:46:04.079 --> 00:46:06.320
<v Speaker 2>crows love it, and I love the crows. We have

820
00:46:06.360 --> 00:46:09.559
<v Speaker 2>a good relationship. But when you are building with it,

821
00:46:09.639 --> 00:46:12.440
<v Speaker 2>even though it did that warping and buckling and the

822
00:46:12.519 --> 00:46:16.119
<v Speaker 2>cross grain, how do you manage that wood and make

823
00:46:16.199 --> 00:46:17.079
<v Speaker 2>cool stuff out of it?

824
00:46:17.159 --> 00:46:20.079
<v Speaker 3>Great question? And this is my one of my business partners.

825
00:46:20.119 --> 00:46:23.559
<v Speaker 3>Todd is in charge of drying it has been up

826
00:46:23.639 --> 00:46:27.519
<v Speaker 3>until now, and he has done some amazing work and

827
00:46:27.519 --> 00:46:28.920
<v Speaker 3>I want to give him a shout out because he's

828
00:46:29.000 --> 00:46:32.480
<v Speaker 3>kind of changed the way people think about eucalyptus in

829
00:46:32.480 --> 00:46:34.440
<v Speaker 3>this area because you know the way he's dried it.

830
00:46:35.159 --> 00:46:42.280
<v Speaker 3>So Todd Cooper shout out. But basically, when you harvest

831
00:46:42.320 --> 00:46:45.760
<v Speaker 3>early like that twenty years you glt this and I

832
00:46:45.840 --> 00:46:49.119
<v Speaker 3>was saying, it grows seasonally like every growth season, it

833
00:46:49.239 --> 00:46:54.079
<v Speaker 3>switches the direction of the fibers growing upward. Wow, which

834
00:46:54.519 --> 00:46:57.800
<v Speaker 3>until it's a really really mature tree is really squirrely

835
00:46:58.119 --> 00:47:01.159
<v Speaker 3>for wood grain. Turns out if they did a little

836
00:47:01.159 --> 00:47:04.000
<v Speaker 3>more research, and I know, hindsight sway twenty I'm not

837
00:47:04.000 --> 00:47:05.880
<v Speaker 3>trying to be like, I know they were just doing

838
00:47:05.880 --> 00:47:08.920
<v Speaker 3>their best. No internet, no internet did no internet, right.

839
00:47:11.079 --> 00:47:16.440
<v Speaker 3>But there's people in Australia, whether it be they indigenous

840
00:47:16.599 --> 00:47:19.199
<v Speaker 3>or settlers or whatever, they know they're like, look, you

841
00:47:19.199 --> 00:47:22.400
<v Speaker 3>gotta let a eucalyptus tree grow a hundred years and

842
00:47:22.639 --> 00:47:27.760
<v Speaker 3>then you can harvest it and it's great wood. And

843
00:47:27.800 --> 00:47:29.800
<v Speaker 3>by the way, there's all these different kinds of species

844
00:47:29.840 --> 00:47:32.400
<v Speaker 3>and they all have different purposes and whatever. So anyway,

845
00:47:34.760 --> 00:47:39.000
<v Speaker 3>the way we do it here is instead of air drying,

846
00:47:39.480 --> 00:47:42.960
<v Speaker 3>we can our air dry some species like Carimbia stato

847
00:47:43.039 --> 00:47:46.119
<v Speaker 3>or lemon scented gum is like one where you're like,

848
00:47:46.119 --> 00:47:47.639
<v Speaker 3>you know what, Actually you could air dry this one.

849
00:47:48.000 --> 00:47:50.360
<v Speaker 3>It's not a big deal. It comes out nice. Blue gum,

850
00:47:50.440 --> 00:47:53.119
<v Speaker 3>which is there's a ton of blue gum in California

851
00:47:53.519 --> 00:47:55.800
<v Speaker 3>is one of those ones that's it's tough to air dry.

852
00:47:56.000 --> 00:47:58.840
<v Speaker 3>But what we can do they didn't have then is

853
00:47:58.920 --> 00:48:02.719
<v Speaker 3>killing drying technology, so we have dry kelnts nice so

854
00:48:02.800 --> 00:48:06.119
<v Speaker 3>we can control. Basically, what was happening is the off

855
00:48:06.159 --> 00:48:10.000
<v Speaker 3>gassing of water was happening too rapidly and so it

856
00:48:10.159 --> 00:48:13.960
<v Speaker 3>just everything buckles. Typically, what you do is when you

857
00:48:14.280 --> 00:48:16.559
<v Speaker 3>saw lumber. You let it air drive for a while

858
00:48:18.039 --> 00:48:21.079
<v Speaker 3>until all the free water's gone. Yeah, they shout out

859
00:48:21.079 --> 00:48:23.719
<v Speaker 3>to free water, and then you put it in the

860
00:48:23.760 --> 00:48:24.880
<v Speaker 3>kiln to finish it off.

861
00:48:25.360 --> 00:48:29.280
<v Speaker 2>And yeah, I know what that means. Yeah, I listened

862
00:48:29.280 --> 00:48:32.239
<v Speaker 2>to a podcast about it, this one.

863
00:48:33.079 --> 00:48:36.039
<v Speaker 3>So now with kiln drying technology, that's typically what you

864
00:48:36.079 --> 00:48:39.960
<v Speaker 3>do with this particular wood. What we did again. Shout

865
00:48:40.000 --> 00:48:41.760
<v Speaker 3>out to Todd. He was like, you know what, I think.

866
00:48:41.800 --> 00:48:44.639
<v Speaker 3>We need to get this off the mill, like right

867
00:48:44.679 --> 00:48:47.159
<v Speaker 3>off the mill. Like literally a board comes off the

868
00:48:47.159 --> 00:48:49.920
<v Speaker 3>mill and you run it to you sprint to the

869
00:48:50.000 --> 00:48:52.639
<v Speaker 3>kiln and get it in the kilt and you maintain

870
00:48:52.719 --> 00:48:56.079
<v Speaker 3>that moisture so that it off gases more slowly. And

871
00:48:56.199 --> 00:48:58.880
<v Speaker 3>in the kiln you start off very low and slow

872
00:48:58.960 --> 00:49:04.360
<v Speaker 3>low temperature, low and slow time and let it off

873
00:49:04.400 --> 00:49:08.320
<v Speaker 3>gas slowly, so you're controlling that off gassing and then

874
00:49:08.400 --> 00:49:10.880
<v Speaker 3>you can dry it way more stably. So we have

875
00:49:10.960 --> 00:49:15.639
<v Speaker 3>that advantage of killing joint technology. But when it's done

876
00:49:15.719 --> 00:49:19.440
<v Speaker 3>that way, it's still tricky. But if you get it right,

877
00:49:19.960 --> 00:49:22.840
<v Speaker 3>boy is it awesome. And blue gum we use for decking,

878
00:49:22.960 --> 00:49:25.440
<v Speaker 3>we use for chunks as well, but we can get

879
00:49:25.440 --> 00:49:28.960
<v Speaker 3>decking boards, perfect pristine decking boards out of bluegum. Eucalyptus.

880
00:49:29.000 --> 00:49:31.239
<v Speaker 3>Now the flooring we use blue gum as well. We

881
00:49:31.320 --> 00:49:33.920
<v Speaker 3>use lemon scented gum, we use red gum, we use

882
00:49:35.840 --> 00:49:41.519
<v Speaker 3>sugar gum, even sugar sugar gum. So yeah, so it's great.

883
00:49:41.599 --> 00:49:43.079
<v Speaker 3>So that's my that's my species.

884
00:49:44.239 --> 00:49:47.239
<v Speaker 2>I love eucalyptus. Now, yes, I will hug one. Can

885
00:49:47.280 --> 00:49:48.639
<v Speaker 2>I ask you some questions from listeners?

886
00:49:48.679 --> 00:49:48.960
<v Speaker 3>Please?

887
00:49:49.000 --> 00:49:52.360
<v Speaker 2>Okay? Yeah, but before we do, let's give away some

888
00:49:52.400 --> 00:49:56.880
<v Speaker 2>cash because money does not grow on trees. Technically, United

889
00:49:56.880 --> 00:50:00.559
<v Speaker 2>States paper bills are printed on linen and cotton. Now

890
00:50:00.599 --> 00:50:02.960
<v Speaker 2>you know that. But each week we donate to a

891
00:50:03.000 --> 00:50:05.480
<v Speaker 2>cause of anologist choosing because we like to try to

892
00:50:05.519 --> 00:50:07.760
<v Speaker 2>make a difference. And this week Jeff chose the Mother

893
00:50:07.880 --> 00:50:10.719
<v Speaker 2>Tree Project, which is a nonprofit that funds long term

894
00:50:10.760 --> 00:50:14.280
<v Speaker 2>research to identify future forest management practices that will help

895
00:50:14.320 --> 00:50:17.519
<v Speaker 2>our forests remain productive and diverse and resilient as the

896
00:50:17.519 --> 00:50:21.000
<v Speaker 2>climate changes. And it's led by world renowned forest ecologist

897
00:50:21.039 --> 00:50:24.639
<v Speaker 2>doctor Simard, who wrote Finding the Mother Tree, and doctor Simmard,

898
00:50:24.760 --> 00:50:27.119
<v Speaker 2>Jeff says is an idol of his. You can learn

899
00:50:27.119 --> 00:50:30.400
<v Speaker 2>more at mothertreeproject dot org. That's linked in the show notes,

900
00:50:30.440 --> 00:50:34.880
<v Speaker 2>and thank you to sponsors for making that donation possible. Okay,

901
00:50:34.920 --> 00:50:38.719
<v Speaker 2>I saw your questions. Let's answer them. Trevor Doughty had

902
00:50:38.719 --> 00:50:42.239
<v Speaker 2>a great question. Everyone asks you this. I'm sure, why

903
00:50:42.320 --> 00:50:46.360
<v Speaker 2>do we call them two by fourth when they aren't

904
00:50:46.400 --> 00:50:47.159
<v Speaker 2>two by four?

905
00:50:47.840 --> 00:50:52.159
<v Speaker 3>This is a great question, wowser's okay, So they were

906
00:50:52.920 --> 00:50:55.079
<v Speaker 3>once upon a time two inch by four inch.

907
00:50:55.360 --> 00:50:55.679
<v Speaker 2>Okay.

908
00:50:55.920 --> 00:51:02.599
<v Speaker 3>As framing shifted from balloon frame to balloon framing was

909
00:51:02.760 --> 00:51:08.360
<v Speaker 3>a type of framing where you still had studs, okay,

910
00:51:09.000 --> 00:51:12.880
<v Speaker 3>traveling vertically on a wall, but the floor system was

911
00:51:12.920 --> 00:51:15.840
<v Speaker 3>a little different. It basically were cavities on the exterior

912
00:51:15.920 --> 00:51:21.079
<v Speaker 3>walls that again hindsight being twenty twenty, fires would once

913
00:51:21.119 --> 00:51:23.920
<v Speaker 3>they started, they would come up through those bays, so

914
00:51:23.920 --> 00:51:26.400
<v Speaker 3>they spread way too fast. So that's why balloon framing

915
00:51:26.480 --> 00:51:29.639
<v Speaker 3>kind of like, Okay, the one and a half by

916
00:51:29.639 --> 00:51:32.840
<v Speaker 3>three and a half, which is a nominal two by four.

917
00:51:33.199 --> 00:51:36.039
<v Speaker 2>That means we call it something that it's not, like

918
00:51:36.119 --> 00:51:39.519
<v Speaker 2>how pon nouff means new bridge but it's the oldest

919
00:51:39.559 --> 00:51:42.840
<v Speaker 2>bridge in Paris. Or a friend whose phone contact is

920
00:51:42.840 --> 00:51:45.159
<v Speaker 2>still their maiden name because you've known them since like

921
00:51:45.199 --> 00:51:47.000
<v Speaker 2>two thousand and six. Anyway, two by.

922
00:51:46.920 --> 00:51:51.559
<v Speaker 3>Fours came about, I believe because of industry, a switch

923
00:51:51.599 --> 00:51:54.960
<v Speaker 3>to stick framing, which is the current standard for framing houses,

924
00:51:55.480 --> 00:51:59.119
<v Speaker 3>because of the plantings, because of the succession plantings. And

925
00:51:59.320 --> 00:52:02.239
<v Speaker 3>I think the fish and see it's they're easier to carry.

926
00:52:02.800 --> 00:52:06.480
<v Speaker 3>They're just smaller and if done sixteen inch on center,

927
00:52:07.599 --> 00:52:09.400
<v Speaker 3>you still have the stability. They were like, why are

928
00:52:09.400 --> 00:52:12.360
<v Speaker 3>we We're wasting lumber. We're you know, we're making it

929
00:52:12.440 --> 00:52:16.519
<v Speaker 3>harder on carpenters and all the things framers. Yeah, so,

930
00:52:16.719 --> 00:52:19.800
<v Speaker 3>as far as I know, my knowledge is that it

931
00:52:19.840 --> 00:52:25.119
<v Speaker 3>was a combination between framing technique and also industry just

932
00:52:25.239 --> 00:52:26.360
<v Speaker 3>wanting to be more efficient.

933
00:52:26.599 --> 00:52:29.079
<v Speaker 2>But you can get more out of a tree, so

934
00:52:29.119 --> 00:52:35.440
<v Speaker 2>that's good, right, Okay, Okay, I like them. Now Elijah

935
00:52:35.440 --> 00:52:39.199
<v Speaker 2>wants to know. Elijah's six year old. Not a lot

936
00:52:39.239 --> 00:52:41.039
<v Speaker 2>of six year olds listening to the podcast, given how

937
00:52:41.119 --> 00:52:43.320
<v Speaker 2>much is a six year old? I know, I'm like,

938
00:52:43.559 --> 00:52:45.440
<v Speaker 2>I'm sorry for the swearing, but my six year old

939
00:52:45.480 --> 00:52:47.519
<v Speaker 2>wants to know why wood is hard when other plants

940
00:52:47.559 --> 00:52:48.400
<v Speaker 2>are soft and bendy.

941
00:52:48.840 --> 00:52:54.599
<v Speaker 3>Oh wow, so the wood is essentially you got cellulose.

942
00:52:54.800 --> 00:52:58.199
<v Speaker 3>I want to say roughly half of wood is cellulose.

943
00:52:58.760 --> 00:53:03.559
<v Speaker 3>Then there's hemy cellulose, and then which is like just

944
00:53:03.599 --> 00:53:07.239
<v Speaker 3>a different molecular structure, and the last bit is lignan.

945
00:53:07.559 --> 00:53:11.400
<v Speaker 3>And the lignin is what is like the tie between cells.

946
00:53:11.440 --> 00:53:15.480
<v Speaker 3>It's like an inner cellular like binder. Oh okay for

947
00:53:15.559 --> 00:53:19.760
<v Speaker 3>all the woodness. Ah, there's lignin in all kinds of plants.

948
00:53:19.760 --> 00:53:22.960
<v Speaker 3>It's just I think the concentration of it in wood,

949
00:53:23.199 --> 00:53:24.920
<v Speaker 3>I think is what gives it its.

950
00:53:25.079 --> 00:53:26.880
<v Speaker 2>Makes it tougher. Yeah, I feel like there's got to

951
00:53:26.880 --> 00:53:28.599
<v Speaker 2>be a lot in the end of an asparagus stock.

952
00:53:28.639 --> 00:53:29.559
<v Speaker 2>You know, when you get to the end of the

953
00:53:29.599 --> 00:53:32.440
<v Speaker 2>asparagus stock and you're like, can't count cho that's the

954
00:53:32.760 --> 00:53:37.000
<v Speaker 2>that's the cutoff. So to recap Cellulose is a polymer

955
00:53:37.079 --> 00:53:40.519
<v Speaker 2>made of glucose, and it gives wood most of its strength,

956
00:53:40.840 --> 00:53:44.039
<v Speaker 2>and lignin is a polymer made of phenols, which are

957
00:53:44.239 --> 00:53:49.400
<v Speaker 2>lightly acidic aromatic compounds. Lignin acts as a binder or

958
00:53:49.480 --> 00:53:53.079
<v Speaker 2>a matrix for the cellulose and Hemicellulose is also a binder,

959
00:53:53.119 --> 00:53:55.480
<v Speaker 2>but it's made of a bunch of different sugar compounds.

960
00:53:55.920 --> 00:53:59.280
<v Speaker 2>So I'm sorry, what's happening in asparagus? I almost cut

961
00:53:59.280 --> 00:54:01.119
<v Speaker 2>that part of the inner out because I was like, Lord,

962
00:54:01.159 --> 00:54:03.519
<v Speaker 2>why are you bullshitting about asparagus right now? But I

963
00:54:03.519 --> 00:54:05.559
<v Speaker 2>looked it up and it turns out I'm a genius.

964
00:54:05.840 --> 00:54:09.320
<v Speaker 2>I found a scintillating publication, the Journal of Food Packaging

965
00:54:09.360 --> 00:54:12.880
<v Speaker 2>and Shelf Life, which had a twenty twenty sensual study

966
00:54:12.920 --> 00:54:17.760
<v Speaker 2>called Longitudinal analysis of lignin deposition in green asparagus by

967
00:54:17.800 --> 00:54:22.079
<v Speaker 2>microscopede during high oxygen modified atmosphere packaging, and it confirmed

968
00:54:22.119 --> 00:54:26.960
<v Speaker 2>my suspicions, saying lignification is the most important factor that

969
00:54:27.119 --> 00:54:31.360
<v Speaker 2>negatively affects quality of fresh green asparagus and limits its

970
00:54:31.360 --> 00:54:37.239
<v Speaker 2>marketability after harvest. Lignin doesn't soften when cooked, so unless

971
00:54:37.440 --> 00:54:40.880
<v Speaker 2>you want your dinner guests to gnaw logs at your table,

972
00:54:41.159 --> 00:54:43.400
<v Speaker 2>you got to snap the end of the spears instead

973
00:54:43.400 --> 00:54:46.280
<v Speaker 2>of cutting them. And in terms of their pee, there's

974
00:54:46.320 --> 00:54:49.679
<v Speaker 2>nothing you can do to stop the asparagusic acid from

975
00:54:49.679 --> 00:54:52.639
<v Speaker 2>breaking down into sulfur. But you can keep a candle

976
00:54:52.719 --> 00:54:55.960
<v Speaker 2>in the bathroom or encourage your friends to rejoice in

977
00:54:56.039 --> 00:54:59.480
<v Speaker 2>having a functioning body with working kidneys, and from more

978
00:54:59.519 --> 00:55:02.119
<v Speaker 2>on that you can listen to the Nephology episode, which

979
00:55:02.159 --> 00:55:04.639
<v Speaker 2>will teach you that transplant recipients get to keep their

980
00:55:04.639 --> 00:55:06.960
<v Speaker 2>old kidneys, and some people just have like a few

981
00:55:06.960 --> 00:55:10.320
<v Speaker 2>extra kidneys in the back, like your uncle's old Mustang

982
00:55:10.480 --> 00:55:12.360
<v Speaker 2>under a tarp in the driveway that he just can't

983
00:55:12.360 --> 00:55:14.840
<v Speaker 2>seem to get rid of. Just keep it there. I

984
00:55:14.920 --> 00:55:17.679
<v Speaker 2>regret wants to know how rare is spalted wood and

985
00:55:17.719 --> 00:55:19.599
<v Speaker 2>does it kill the tree? And can you tell a

986
00:55:19.639 --> 00:55:22.079
<v Speaker 2>tree is spaulted before you cut it? I want to

987
00:55:22.079 --> 00:55:25.119
<v Speaker 2>know what a spalted mean? What is that word?

988
00:55:25.199 --> 00:55:29.440
<v Speaker 3>Great one? So spaulting in a in wood is a

989
00:55:29.599 --> 00:55:34.880
<v Speaker 3>fungal characteristic. You'll see they're typically at least around here,

990
00:55:35.320 --> 00:55:38.519
<v Speaker 3>black lines in the wood. M h if I have

991
00:55:38.559 --> 00:55:43.559
<v Speaker 3>any around here. But there's also spaulting that is, Oh

992
00:55:43.599 --> 00:55:47.440
<v Speaker 3>here's some. This is spaulting sycamore right here.

993
00:55:49.320 --> 00:55:52.880
<v Speaker 2>Come on now, Oh so like little like darker, darker lines.

994
00:55:52.920 --> 00:55:57.159
<v Speaker 3>Oh okay, yeah, so that's a typical spalt But there's

995
00:55:57.199 --> 00:56:01.559
<v Speaker 3>also like rust colored, spongy looking like you were to

996
00:56:01.599 --> 00:56:04.079
<v Speaker 3>take like a sponge painting on a wall kind of thing.

997
00:56:04.840 --> 00:56:07.559
<v Speaker 3>There's also hot pink. I know when I first started

998
00:56:07.559 --> 00:56:10.119
<v Speaker 3>doing this, I remember like seeing wood that was drying,

999
00:56:10.239 --> 00:56:14.000
<v Speaker 3>like who is drawing on the wood. But it's a

1000
00:56:14.280 --> 00:56:19.400
<v Speaker 3>it's a fungus. I don't believe that these fungi are

1001
00:56:20.159 --> 00:56:24.639
<v Speaker 3>harming or helping these particular ones. So a mic horiezal

1002
00:56:24.719 --> 00:56:28.239
<v Speaker 3>fungi fungi at the root system is like the support

1003
00:56:28.280 --> 00:56:31.239
<v Speaker 3>network for a lot of different species and interspecies and

1004
00:56:31.239 --> 00:56:33.159
<v Speaker 3>all that stuff. So those fungi are like, you know,

1005
00:56:34.079 --> 00:56:37.400
<v Speaker 3>super important, super important for trees. There are other fungi

1006
00:56:37.440 --> 00:56:41.159
<v Speaker 3>that can kill a tree really fast. And I don't

1007
00:56:41.239 --> 00:56:43.039
<v Speaker 3>know the ins and the oils of all that, but

1008
00:56:43.639 --> 00:56:49.400
<v Speaker 3>spaulting is it happens around here a lot to our sycamores,

1009
00:56:49.639 --> 00:56:53.920
<v Speaker 3>our silver maple, and I believe it has to do with, yeah,

1010
00:56:54.000 --> 00:56:57.039
<v Speaker 3>the decay over time, as they're just kind of declining,

1011
00:56:57.239 --> 00:56:59.000
<v Speaker 3>there's more spaulting happening in the wood.

1012
00:56:59.360 --> 00:57:02.519
<v Speaker 2>So is just a little bit of fungus giving a

1013
00:57:02.599 --> 00:57:06.880
<v Speaker 2>fun pattern. And apparently you can spalt lumber on purpose

1014
00:57:07.320 --> 00:57:09.639
<v Speaker 2>and shove it into a bag to get kind of moldy.

1015
00:57:09.880 --> 00:57:13.280
<v Speaker 2>And one website I looked at called Sunketcher Studio advises

1016
00:57:13.400 --> 00:57:17.199
<v Speaker 2>that ingredients that contain nitrogen or organics and sugar will

1017
00:57:17.239 --> 00:57:21.880
<v Speaker 2>help speed up the spaulting process. This can include horse manure, fertilizer,

1018
00:57:22.199 --> 00:57:25.039
<v Speaker 2>and leaves. They continue. I have had a specially good

1019
00:57:25.079 --> 00:57:27.920
<v Speaker 2>luck using two cans of beer. One can of beer

1020
00:57:27.960 --> 00:57:30.639
<v Speaker 2>you pour on the wood, the other can you drink.

1021
00:57:31.119 --> 00:57:33.199
<v Speaker 2>I like this person. They seem fun to have a

1022
00:57:33.239 --> 00:57:36.599
<v Speaker 2>spulted log with. We have a question about burrels that

1023
00:57:36.760 --> 00:57:39.239
<v Speaker 2>Niemeringer wants to know. What's the deal with burrels? As

1024
00:57:39.239 --> 00:57:41.119
<v Speaker 2>a kid hiking in the woods, I heard stories of

1025
00:57:41.159 --> 00:57:44.039
<v Speaker 2>majorly cool trees being cut just for their burrels and

1026
00:57:44.079 --> 00:57:45.880
<v Speaker 2>the rest of the lumber just being left to rot.

1027
00:57:46.599 --> 00:57:49.440
<v Speaker 2>It made me think of ivory and rhinohorn poaching, and

1028
00:57:49.440 --> 00:57:54.400
<v Speaker 2>frankly still horrifies me. But do some species of tree

1029
00:57:54.440 --> 00:57:56.400
<v Speaker 2>have more burrel? Like walnut has more burrel?

1030
00:57:56.480 --> 00:57:56.639
<v Speaker 3>Right?

1031
00:57:57.280 --> 00:57:58.320
<v Speaker 2>Is what is a burrel?

1032
00:57:58.599 --> 00:58:03.199
<v Speaker 3>They're sprouts? Yeah, there's sprouts, so, and there's sprouts that

1033
00:58:03.239 --> 00:58:08.519
<v Speaker 3>don't necessarily continue to shoot. So redwoods everybody loves redwoods,

1034
00:58:08.519 --> 00:58:11.760
<v Speaker 3>no argument there. Everyone loves redwoods everyone. So basically those

1035
00:58:11.760 --> 00:58:14.400
<v Speaker 3>are ligno tubers. They have those. You ever see at

1036
00:58:14.440 --> 00:58:17.199
<v Speaker 3>the base of a redwood tree a bunch of little

1037
00:58:17.199 --> 00:58:21.840
<v Speaker 3>shits coming out? Yeah, And typically when a redwood tree

1038
00:58:21.880 --> 00:58:25.159
<v Speaker 3>comes out, the root system or the root ball typically

1039
00:58:25.239 --> 00:58:28.199
<v Speaker 3>has a huge burl, not typically, but often has a

1040
00:58:28.280 --> 00:58:31.679
<v Speaker 3>huge burrel at the base of the tree, to which

1041
00:58:31.679 --> 00:58:34.480
<v Speaker 3>woodworkers are like, save the root system, save it, save it,

1042
00:58:34.519 --> 00:58:37.880
<v Speaker 3>save it, And yeah, it's a bunch of sprouts that

1043
00:58:38.000 --> 00:58:42.639
<v Speaker 3>didn't take. And it's the same for yeah, for any species.

1044
00:58:43.039 --> 00:58:44.760
<v Speaker 3>I had no idea ingrown sprouts.

1045
00:58:45.280 --> 00:58:49.119
<v Speaker 2>So a burled tree can also mean a stressed tree.

1046
00:58:49.360 --> 00:58:53.880
<v Speaker 2>Insect infestation, brush fires, and bad weather can make the

1047
00:58:53.960 --> 00:58:58.159
<v Speaker 2>tree do the dendrological equivalent of panicking, making a ball

1048
00:58:58.239 --> 00:59:01.480
<v Speaker 2>of sprouts in case its main tree can no longer function.

1049
00:59:01.920 --> 00:59:05.719
<v Speaker 2>So when you see borldwood, just think about a tree

1050
00:59:05.800 --> 00:59:09.199
<v Speaker 2>reading about an impending tragedy and making tons of babies.

1051
00:59:09.679 --> 00:59:12.320
<v Speaker 2>Now burls make me sad. Oops, I thought this was

1052
00:59:12.360 --> 00:59:16.079
<v Speaker 2>a great one. Furoria Lily wants to know what classifies

1053
00:59:16.119 --> 00:59:19.760
<v Speaker 2>a tree as old growth and what can we do

1054
00:59:19.840 --> 00:59:22.760
<v Speaker 2>to protect old growth forests and why are they important

1055
00:59:22.800 --> 00:59:26.559
<v Speaker 2>versus young growth? So when you were talking about forests

1056
00:59:26.559 --> 00:59:29.360
<v Speaker 2>that are just like planted, and then that's the new growth.

1057
00:59:29.159 --> 00:59:34.519
<v Speaker 3>Right, Yes, there's a lot of different classifications, and I

1058
00:59:34.559 --> 00:59:37.639
<v Speaker 3>get confused. There's old growth, there's new growth, there's first

1059
00:59:37.639 --> 00:59:41.840
<v Speaker 3>growth second growth. I believe that the different growth stages

1060
00:59:42.079 --> 00:59:46.679
<v Speaker 3>are harvest from a given organism. So if you plant

1061
00:59:46.679 --> 00:59:49.719
<v Speaker 3>a tree and you cut it down, that's first growth.

1062
00:59:49.800 --> 00:59:53.920
<v Speaker 3>But old growth, I thinks, as is typically talked about,

1063
00:59:54.000 --> 00:59:58.800
<v Speaker 3>are trees that were in a forest that was not harvested,

1064
00:59:58.880 --> 01:00:02.840
<v Speaker 3>that are like and really tight growth rings and are

1065
01:00:02.880 --> 01:00:04.039
<v Speaker 3>just very old trees.

1066
01:00:04.239 --> 01:00:06.760
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, okay, so let's do a quick rundown on that.

1067
01:00:07.000 --> 01:00:10.639
<v Speaker 2>So old growth forests haven't been logged, and the Food

1068
01:00:10.719 --> 01:00:13.719
<v Speaker 2>and Agricultural Organization of the United Nations says they are

1069
01:00:13.840 --> 01:00:18.159
<v Speaker 2>naturally regenerated forests of native tree species where there are

1070
01:00:18.199 --> 01:00:21.920
<v Speaker 2>clearly no visible indications of human activity and the ecological

1071
01:00:21.960 --> 01:00:26.199
<v Speaker 2>processes are not significantly disturbed. That is an old growth forest.

1072
01:00:26.400 --> 01:00:29.440
<v Speaker 2>About a third of forests in the world are old

1073
01:00:29.480 --> 01:00:33.400
<v Speaker 2>growth and they're mostly in Brazil, Canada and Russia. Old

1074
01:00:33.440 --> 01:00:35.880
<v Speaker 2>growth forests are hanging on to a lot of carbon

1075
01:00:36.079 --> 01:00:39.320
<v Speaker 2>and species. Now second growth or new growth forests have

1076
01:00:39.440 --> 01:00:42.480
<v Speaker 2>been harvested and they're growing back. Now, how long does

1077
01:00:42.519 --> 01:00:44.920
<v Speaker 2>it take for a second growth or new growth forest

1078
01:00:44.960 --> 01:00:46.679
<v Speaker 2>to be an old growth. Well, it can take a

1079
01:00:46.760 --> 01:00:50.079
<v Speaker 2>hardwood forest in the US between one hundred and fifty

1080
01:00:50.119 --> 01:00:55.199
<v Speaker 2>to five hundred years to regain old growthy characteristics up

1081
01:00:55.239 --> 01:00:58.480
<v Speaker 2>to thousands of years for other forests, and most forests

1082
01:00:58.480 --> 01:01:00.880
<v Speaker 2>in the US and Europe are on their second lap,

1083
01:01:01.239 --> 01:01:05.320
<v Speaker 2>the old growth long gone to practices of colonization. And

1084
01:01:05.360 --> 01:01:07.880
<v Speaker 2>I was recently visiting my cousin Nate, who showed me

1085
01:01:07.920 --> 01:01:12.000
<v Speaker 2>a table he built from this densely ringed old growth wood.

1086
01:01:12.519 --> 01:01:16.400
<v Speaker 2>And this lost log was cut one hundred years ago

1087
01:01:16.719 --> 01:01:20.039
<v Speaker 2>but was just recently dredged up from a chili lake

1088
01:01:20.320 --> 01:01:23.679
<v Speaker 2>by the same timber company. My cousin up in Montana

1089
01:01:23.760 --> 01:01:27.280
<v Speaker 2>was talking about how logs would fly down the river,

1090
01:01:27.519 --> 01:01:30.800
<v Speaker 2>old old logs sink, it would be anaerobic enough where

1091
01:01:31.039 --> 01:01:33.079
<v Speaker 2>some of those logs get dredged up, and then you

1092
01:01:33.119 --> 01:01:37.519
<v Speaker 2>have this really really compact old growth, old old logs

1093
01:01:37.559 --> 01:01:41.280
<v Speaker 2>that have just been in water. Does that happen? I mean,

1094
01:01:41.519 --> 01:01:43.800
<v Speaker 2>because that is can water be a preservative in that case?

1095
01:01:43.880 --> 01:01:47.400
<v Speaker 3>Yeah? Yeah, And it's beautiful and it's often like really

1096
01:01:47.480 --> 01:01:51.920
<v Speaker 3>dark wood. There's also bog logs, I know, like in

1097
01:01:52.199 --> 01:01:54.119
<v Speaker 3>the UK, like in the bogs in the UK that

1098
01:01:54.519 --> 01:01:57.480
<v Speaker 3>logs that have been submerged for hundreds of years and

1099
01:01:57.480 --> 01:01:59.639
<v Speaker 3>then they pull them up and they mail them in

1100
01:01:59.639 --> 01:02:02.119
<v Speaker 3>a lumber and it's used for like gorgeous, gorgeous furniture

1101
01:02:02.119 --> 01:02:02.599
<v Speaker 3>and stuff like that.

1102
01:02:02.840 --> 01:02:08.440
<v Speaker 2>Also just bog logs, like boglogs. Someone get boglogs dot com. Yeah, totally, No,

1103
01:02:08.559 --> 01:02:12.599
<v Speaker 2>I think it is because yeah, Feoral Lily submitted a

1104
01:02:12.639 --> 01:02:14.480
<v Speaker 2>few questions and one of them was what's the deal

1105
01:02:14.519 --> 01:02:15.559
<v Speaker 2>with bog oak trees?

1106
01:02:16.119 --> 01:02:17.639
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, so there you go, there you go.

1107
01:02:18.360 --> 01:02:20.400
<v Speaker 2>They had this question too. Are there any tree species

1108
01:02:20.400 --> 01:02:24.199
<v Speaker 2>that we should straight up avoid buying to stop encouraging

1109
01:02:24.280 --> 01:02:26.360
<v Speaker 2>logging of that resource? Is there one that it's like,

1110
01:02:26.480 --> 01:02:27.480
<v Speaker 2>lay off this one.

1111
01:02:27.400 --> 01:02:30.960
<v Speaker 3>Everyone because it's such good lumber that kind of thing, Yeah.

1112
01:02:30.840 --> 01:02:33.599
<v Speaker 2>Or just its harvest is maybe not done well, or

1113
01:02:33.639 --> 01:02:37.400
<v Speaker 2>it's like let let these mahoganies or epe or something

1114
01:02:37.519 --> 01:02:39.519
<v Speaker 2>just like keep chilling in a forest.

1115
01:02:41.599 --> 01:02:47.199
<v Speaker 3>Yeah. I think forest management is a whole thing that

1116
01:02:48.000 --> 01:02:50.079
<v Speaker 3>deserves a lot of brain power to put our minds

1117
01:02:50.119 --> 01:02:53.599
<v Speaker 3>back on how to do it right. Our current system

1118
01:02:53.679 --> 01:02:55.800
<v Speaker 3>is again, I think it's a hole over from a

1119
01:02:55.840 --> 01:02:59.840
<v Speaker 3>post industrial like mindset which is just devoid of our

1120
01:03:00.079 --> 01:03:04.400
<v Speaker 3>relationship with with forests, with trees. Robin wall Kimer, there

1121
01:03:04.400 --> 01:03:08.559
<v Speaker 3>you go in bringing sweet grass and talking about the

1122
01:03:08.679 --> 01:03:12.599
<v Speaker 3>black ash, basket weaving or harvest. You know, there's no

1123
01:03:12.880 --> 01:03:17.079
<v Speaker 3>like conservationists like don't ever touch the trees or anything

1124
01:03:17.159 --> 01:03:19.960
<v Speaker 3>like that. But there's a participation and there's an honor,

1125
01:03:20.000 --> 01:03:23.119
<v Speaker 3>and there's a dance, and there's a reciprocity, as she

1126
01:03:23.159 --> 01:03:23.639
<v Speaker 3>would say.

1127
01:03:23.960 --> 01:03:27.320
<v Speaker 2>For more on Doctor Robin wall Kimer, see our biology

1128
01:03:27.360 --> 01:03:31.719
<v Speaker 2>episode about Moss linked in the show notes what an episode.

1129
01:03:31.760 --> 01:03:32.760
<v Speaker 2>I love her, We love her.

1130
01:03:33.400 --> 01:03:36.199
<v Speaker 3>I think until forest management can get back to reciprocity,

1131
01:03:37.360 --> 01:03:40.000
<v Speaker 3>I mean, I would say all species are in danger,

1132
01:03:40.360 --> 01:03:44.280
<v Speaker 3>just as any non human being is in danger of

1133
01:03:44.920 --> 01:03:47.679
<v Speaker 3>what we're up to, you know, I mean, are there

1134
01:03:47.800 --> 01:03:50.599
<v Speaker 3>certain species of animals that we shouldn't hunt more? But yeah,

1135
01:03:50.639 --> 01:03:53.039
<v Speaker 3>I mean, just like we need to just overhaul our

1136
01:03:53.079 --> 01:04:01.280
<v Speaker 3>whole mindset. Yeah again, pre Industrial Revolution, Treeheart was the

1137
01:04:01.320 --> 01:04:05.639
<v Speaker 3>world over. Indigenous communities the world over for millennia and

1138
01:04:06.559 --> 01:04:09.480
<v Speaker 3>as far back as we can go, people built with wood.

1139
01:04:09.880 --> 01:04:12.199
<v Speaker 3>But the way that the forests were managed was like

1140
01:04:12.239 --> 01:04:16.440
<v Speaker 3>a woodlot. So he would essentially you would cut down

1141
01:04:16.559 --> 01:04:19.320
<v Speaker 3>a section of a woodlot managed by the community. And

1142
01:04:19.320 --> 01:04:22.280
<v Speaker 3>this is pre land ownership, so this was not anyone's

1143
01:04:22.360 --> 01:04:25.440
<v Speaker 3>land to own. This was everyone's land. In the community

1144
01:04:25.880 --> 01:04:29.880
<v Speaker 3>and they would harvest a section of the forest coppice

1145
01:04:30.039 --> 01:04:33.000
<v Speaker 3>they've cut at the base and then let it re sprout,

1146
01:04:33.920 --> 01:04:36.880
<v Speaker 3>and they would do that on twenty fifteen, twenty year increment.

1147
01:04:36.960 --> 01:04:38.639
<v Speaker 3>So the next year you would go to the next

1148
01:04:38.639 --> 01:04:42.760
<v Speaker 3>section cut that while this one's growing back. You go

1149
01:04:42.800 --> 01:04:46.599
<v Speaker 3>all the way around and you've got woodlots that trees

1150
01:04:46.599 --> 01:04:49.719
<v Speaker 3>are thousands of years old and they've been participated with

1151
01:04:50.639 --> 01:04:56.559
<v Speaker 3>There's an incredible book by William Bryant Logan called sprout Lands,

1152
01:04:58.000 --> 01:05:01.280
<v Speaker 3>and he actually did this whole deep dive into the

1153
01:05:01.360 --> 01:05:06.119
<v Speaker 3>history of this, and he also talks about how flora

1154
01:05:06.119 --> 01:05:11.840
<v Speaker 3>and fauna, the ecology of a participated in woodlot just

1155
01:05:12.119 --> 01:05:15.599
<v Speaker 3>booms and there's like three times the amount of plants, insects,

1156
01:05:16.400 --> 01:05:20.719
<v Speaker 3>animals in a forest that is being participated with humans.

1157
01:05:21.000 --> 01:05:24.440
<v Speaker 2>This seemed bonkers to me, so I surfed the bibliography

1158
01:05:24.519 --> 01:05:28.320
<v Speaker 2>of Sproutlands and then literally a few hours later realized

1159
01:05:28.320 --> 01:05:31.000
<v Speaker 2>that I had been deep in papers such as Late

1160
01:05:31.079 --> 01:05:35.320
<v Speaker 2>Mesolithic and Early Neolithic Forest Disturbance, a high resolution paleo

1161
01:05:35.360 --> 01:05:39.280
<v Speaker 2>ecological test of human impact hypotheses and the potential role

1162
01:05:39.320 --> 01:05:42.480
<v Speaker 2>of humans in structuring the wooded landscapes of Mesolithic Ireland,

1163
01:05:42.639 --> 01:05:45.639
<v Speaker 2>A Review of Data and Discussion of Approaches, both papers

1164
01:05:45.639 --> 01:05:48.599
<v Speaker 2>from twenty thirteen, which seemed like just a banger year

1165
01:05:48.719 --> 01:05:53.280
<v Speaker 2>for publishing stuff about neolithic forest farming. But yes, coppist growth,

1166
01:05:53.440 --> 01:05:56.800
<v Speaker 2>according to the book Sproutlands is not a single thing,

1167
01:05:57.000 --> 01:06:00.719
<v Speaker 2>but a synthetic ecosystem in which human participates is a key.

1168
01:06:01.000 --> 01:06:04.400
<v Speaker 2>Far more species of plants, insects, birds, and other creatures

1169
01:06:04.440 --> 01:06:07.719
<v Speaker 2>inhabit such a mixed landscape then would live in an

1170
01:06:07.800 --> 01:06:10.280
<v Speaker 2>untouched woodland. And for more on this you can see

1171
01:06:10.320 --> 01:06:14.360
<v Speaker 2>that book Sproutlands by William Bryant. Logan and to pollard

1172
01:06:14.599 --> 01:06:18.280
<v Speaker 2>is to cut certain trees at about head height so

1173
01:06:18.320 --> 01:06:21.800
<v Speaker 2>that grazing animals can't reach the young shoots that sprout

1174
01:06:21.920 --> 01:06:26.880
<v Speaker 2>from that cut surface, while coppassing is cutting closer to

1175
01:06:26.920 --> 01:06:29.239
<v Speaker 2>the ground so that the new shoots of the tree

1176
01:06:29.320 --> 01:06:32.639
<v Speaker 2>grow from that stump. And yes, I looked it up,

1177
01:06:32.719 --> 01:06:36.199
<v Speaker 2>and you can coppice an apple tree, which gives me

1178
01:06:36.239 --> 01:06:38.840
<v Speaker 2>hope for the giving tree, even though most apple trees,

1179
01:06:38.880 --> 01:06:41.639
<v Speaker 2>as we learn from the dendrology episode, are grafted. But

1180
01:06:41.800 --> 01:06:46.480
<v Speaker 2>if the giving tree just grows into one that makes shitty,

1181
01:06:46.599 --> 01:06:51.239
<v Speaker 2>malformed apples full of bitterness and worms and gets left

1182
01:06:51.239 --> 01:06:53.960
<v Speaker 2>to hell alone. I'm happy for the giving tree. I'm

1183
01:06:53.960 --> 01:06:54.519
<v Speaker 2>happy for.

1184
01:06:54.519 --> 01:06:59.519
<v Speaker 3>It plant any species if that's the mentality. But in

1185
01:06:59.559 --> 01:07:05.480
<v Speaker 3>the current system of commoditizing for commodity's sake, and I

1186
01:07:05.519 --> 01:07:07.360
<v Speaker 3>get it from a demand standpoint, these would lots. This

1187
01:07:07.400 --> 01:07:09.559
<v Speaker 3>is when there was half a billion people on the planet.

1188
01:07:09.639 --> 01:07:12.039
<v Speaker 3>Now there's eight billion people on the planet. It's a

1189
01:07:12.039 --> 01:07:15.320
<v Speaker 3>different ballgame. But I think we can still get back

1190
01:07:15.320 --> 01:07:18.440
<v Speaker 3>to that mentality and do forest management a lot differently

1191
01:07:18.440 --> 01:07:19.079
<v Speaker 3>than we're doing it.

1192
01:07:19.360 --> 01:07:24.519
<v Speaker 2>What about reclaimed wood and barnwood that is being you know,

1193
01:07:24.760 --> 01:07:28.480
<v Speaker 2>taken apart one by one, or even if there's demolitions,

1194
01:07:28.840 --> 01:07:30.679
<v Speaker 2>the idea of going and trying to take as many

1195
01:07:30.719 --> 01:07:33.800
<v Speaker 2>beams as possible and reuse it. Are people doing more

1196
01:07:33.840 --> 01:07:37.079
<v Speaker 2>of that? And it is that lumber.

1197
01:07:36.880 --> 01:07:38.480
<v Speaker 3>Accessible to people totally?

1198
01:07:38.880 --> 01:07:40.039
<v Speaker 2>Are there good places to look for that?

1199
01:07:40.239 --> 01:07:43.159
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, there's places here that are awesome. One of them

1200
01:07:43.559 --> 01:07:46.360
<v Speaker 3>has gone out of business, the Reclaimer at Tarzana, which

1201
01:07:46.360 --> 01:07:49.280
<v Speaker 3>is a bummer. There's also a tree line in Frogtown

1202
01:07:49.519 --> 01:07:52.880
<v Speaker 3>Habitat for Humanity, the Restore. So there are places that

1203
01:07:53.199 --> 01:07:55.639
<v Speaker 3>do that around here and they're awesome, and I think

1204
01:07:55.679 --> 01:07:58.440
<v Speaker 3>that is a great idea. But it's all systems. It's

1205
01:07:58.480 --> 01:08:01.280
<v Speaker 3>all like how we live in anomic system? So how

1206
01:08:01.280 --> 01:08:04.519
<v Speaker 3>can you from a process standpoint do it viably? And

1207
01:08:04.559 --> 01:08:07.960
<v Speaker 3>these people have the relationship with a contract, a demo contractor,

1208
01:08:08.400 --> 01:08:12.519
<v Speaker 3>they have a schedule. They're like, okay, the demo contractor

1209
01:08:12.519 --> 01:08:14.920
<v Speaker 3>is like, great, you have these three days to extract

1210
01:08:14.920 --> 01:08:17.600
<v Speaker 3>all the all the timbers that you want. They go in,

1211
01:08:17.680 --> 01:08:19.439
<v Speaker 3>they do it. They have a whole facility set up,

1212
01:08:19.840 --> 01:08:23.079
<v Speaker 3>and that way, by that process being streamlined, it's not

1213
01:08:23.680 --> 01:08:28.439
<v Speaker 3>crazy expensive. People can like go to that reclaim lumberyard

1214
01:08:28.920 --> 01:08:30.840
<v Speaker 3>and they do and they use all of it.

1215
01:08:31.199 --> 01:08:33.119
<v Speaker 2>I love that, right, I love that.

1216
01:08:33.199 --> 01:08:33.920
<v Speaker 3>It's incredible.

1217
01:08:34.039 --> 01:08:36.560
<v Speaker 2>Does it ever piss you off? As someone who has

1218
01:08:36.600 --> 01:08:40.479
<v Speaker 2>a live edge table from you beloved the most cherished

1219
01:08:40.520 --> 01:08:44.319
<v Speaker 2>piece of furniture in my house from yes, a samilash

1220
01:08:44.319 --> 01:08:47.399
<v Speaker 2>which I didn't know that was a species of tree.

1221
01:08:47.880 --> 01:08:49.560
<v Speaker 2>Does it ever piss you off when you see things

1222
01:08:49.560 --> 01:08:51.960
<v Speaker 2>cut to look like live edge that are not live edge?

1223
01:08:52.000 --> 01:08:55.840
<v Speaker 3>That pisses me up feeling? Can I be real right now? Yah? Yeah,

1224
01:08:55.880 --> 01:08:59.119
<v Speaker 3>that's that's not that's messed up. Can't do that. That's

1225
01:08:59.199 --> 01:09:02.359
<v Speaker 3>that's what we were about, Like the kind of like, oh,

1226
01:09:02.399 --> 01:09:04.920
<v Speaker 3>this is how it's supposed to like, yeah, come on,

1227
01:09:05.000 --> 01:09:06.800
<v Speaker 3>well yeah, like get a get a grip.

1228
01:09:06.920 --> 01:09:09.119
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I know, I figured whenever I see that in

1229
01:09:09.159 --> 01:09:11.520
<v Speaker 2>the catalogs, I'm like, I've met that fisiness.

1230
01:09:11.720 --> 01:09:13.159
<v Speaker 3>Well you get a grip.

1231
01:09:13.560 --> 01:09:16.039
<v Speaker 2>Uh. Clara NRK wants to know if you have a

1232
01:09:16.039 --> 01:09:17.159
<v Speaker 2>favorite smelling wood.

1233
01:09:18.560 --> 01:09:22.479
<v Speaker 3>Oh man, that's a tough one. I mean d R

1234
01:09:22.600 --> 01:09:28.399
<v Speaker 3>cedar is the Himalayan cedar and syandemic to the Himalays.

1235
01:09:28.439 --> 01:09:32.279
<v Speaker 3>But that's the most common urban seater that we have here.

1236
01:09:32.479 --> 01:09:36.319
<v Speaker 3>M h boy, oh boy, that's my favorite. I think

1237
01:09:36.640 --> 01:09:39.159
<v Speaker 3>so smelly, so good, so smelly, so good.

1238
01:09:39.720 --> 01:09:42.319
<v Speaker 2>What about the worst thing about your job? What sucks?

1239
01:09:42.760 --> 01:09:44.840
<v Speaker 2>What's the most frustrating thing? The worst thing?

1240
01:09:47.960 --> 01:09:51.039
<v Speaker 3>I sound so annoying, but I really love it. I

1241
01:09:51.239 --> 01:09:55.159
<v Speaker 3>really really something. I was a disclaimer.

1242
01:09:55.239 --> 01:09:58.720
<v Speaker 2>Okay, okay, you must have like one toenail that fell

1243
01:09:58.760 --> 01:10:01.239
<v Speaker 2>off years ago for under a log or something.

1244
01:10:02.439 --> 01:10:07.439
<v Speaker 3>Yeah well yeah, yeah, plenty, Okay, but this one, but

1245
01:10:07.520 --> 01:10:11.279
<v Speaker 3>this one's more. Actually, I could really use the help

1246
01:10:12.000 --> 01:10:14.960
<v Speaker 3>of anyone in our community that's listening on this one.

1247
01:10:15.079 --> 01:10:15.439
<v Speaker 2>Okay.

1248
01:10:15.560 --> 01:10:18.800
<v Speaker 3>I'm all weirs because I can't figure out, so we

1249
01:10:18.800 --> 01:10:21.640
<v Speaker 3>we get the biggest bane of my existence at my

1250
01:10:21.760 --> 01:10:24.880
<v Speaker 3>job is we can't use we can. We haven't figured

1251
01:10:24.920 --> 01:10:30.319
<v Speaker 3>out yet how to use every single mor soul of

1252
01:10:30.359 --> 01:10:35.800
<v Speaker 3>our trees. So obviously we make lumber. But that's that's

1253
01:10:36.079 --> 01:10:40.199
<v Speaker 3>roughly eighty percent of a log. That's I don't know

1254
01:10:40.199 --> 01:10:42.520
<v Speaker 3>if that might be inaccurate, but I'm gonna I'm gonna

1255
01:10:42.600 --> 01:10:45.760
<v Speaker 3>estimate roughly eighty percent of a log is made into lumber.

1256
01:10:45.800 --> 01:10:47.680
<v Speaker 3>Well what about the other twenty percent? That's a lot

1257
01:10:47.680 --> 01:10:49.600
<v Speaker 3>of what we have. We cut a lot of logs

1258
01:10:49.600 --> 01:10:55.840
<v Speaker 3>in a year. The sawdust we have solved, thank god,

1259
01:10:56.479 --> 01:10:59.520
<v Speaker 3>through La Compost. We give them all of our sawdust

1260
01:10:59.600 --> 01:11:01.720
<v Speaker 3>and they is it for browns for their for their

1261
01:11:01.720 --> 01:11:05.039
<v Speaker 3>food waste to make for compost, which is awesome. But

1262
01:11:05.119 --> 01:11:07.319
<v Speaker 3>our slash, meaning the stuff that's kind of like, we

1263
01:11:07.319 --> 01:11:09.800
<v Speaker 3>don't know what to do with this. We we've started

1264
01:11:09.800 --> 01:11:14.720
<v Speaker 3>splitting firewood and having it for community like restaurants and

1265
01:11:15.079 --> 01:11:16.840
<v Speaker 3>wood ovens and stuff like that, but it's not like

1266
01:11:16.920 --> 01:11:20.680
<v Speaker 3>a streamlined thing yet. And the rest of it we

1267
01:11:20.760 --> 01:11:23.079
<v Speaker 3>bring to a mulcha for mulch and we're like, yeah,

1268
01:11:23.359 --> 01:11:27.159
<v Speaker 3>I guess that's fine, but like, I know, there's a

1269
01:11:27.199 --> 01:11:30.399
<v Speaker 3>better way to do this, and it just crushes my soul.

1270
01:11:30.640 --> 01:11:33.520
<v Speaker 2>Coasters about coasters.

1271
01:11:33.319 --> 01:11:34.760
<v Speaker 3>We could do coasters. It's a lot.

1272
01:11:34.920 --> 01:11:36.600
<v Speaker 2>That's a lot of coasters.

1273
01:11:36.079 --> 01:11:38.439
<v Speaker 3>But they're like pieces of wood like this, they're like

1274
01:11:38.520 --> 01:11:40.680
<v Speaker 3>weird pieces. Yeah, like I don't even know how do

1275
01:11:40.720 --> 01:11:42.279
<v Speaker 3>I dry this? How I cut it? What do we do?

1276
01:11:42.560 --> 01:11:46.880
<v Speaker 2>There must be carvers whitdlers, Yes, a brigade of whitdlers

1277
01:11:46.920 --> 01:11:49.840
<v Speaker 2>showing up the Witler brigade. There's gotta be one. But

1278
01:11:50.319 --> 01:11:54.920
<v Speaker 2>so maybe a little bit of hive mind? Is that that?

1279
01:11:56.279 --> 01:11:57.239
<v Speaker 3>Yes, what to do with it?

1280
01:11:57.319 --> 01:11:58.479
<v Speaker 2>Yes, that's the worst thing.

1281
01:11:58.600 --> 01:12:00.680
<v Speaker 3>Yes, okay, I mean maybe team percent, but.

1282
01:12:00.680 --> 01:12:04.079
<v Speaker 2>Yes, okay, follow them an Angel City lumber and give

1283
01:12:04.119 --> 01:12:06.680
<v Speaker 2>them some ideas. Also you can gaze at their gorgeous

1284
01:12:06.720 --> 01:12:09.199
<v Speaker 2>stumps and slabs and such. What it's the best thing

1285
01:12:09.239 --> 01:12:09.800
<v Speaker 2>about the job?

1286
01:12:11.600 --> 01:12:17.000
<v Speaker 3>Oh man? Can I give a few couple? Our team

1287
01:12:17.600 --> 01:12:20.119
<v Speaker 3>is like, there's fifteen of us here and they are

1288
01:12:20.159 --> 01:12:24.119
<v Speaker 3>like angel people. I don't know, I like this would

1289
01:12:24.119 --> 01:12:28.600
<v Speaker 3>not what we've accomplished already and we have a long

1290
01:12:28.640 --> 01:12:31.680
<v Speaker 3>way to go. Is like it's just as testament to

1291
01:12:31.760 --> 01:12:33.520
<v Speaker 3>like the people that are just like, let's do this.

1292
01:12:34.520 --> 01:12:37.279
<v Speaker 3>They're so incredible. All every single one of them, and

1293
01:12:37.560 --> 01:12:39.800
<v Speaker 3>the ones that have worked here that don't any longer

1294
01:12:40.000 --> 01:12:45.640
<v Speaker 3>just incredible people. So that's one. But obviously I think

1295
01:12:45.720 --> 01:12:49.520
<v Speaker 3>the main event is obviously that I feel that we

1296
01:12:50.159 --> 01:12:57.079
<v Speaker 3>are contributing to a shift and mentality to the more

1297
01:12:57.119 --> 01:13:01.880
<v Speaker 3>than human world around us. And I think we're contributing

1298
01:13:02.039 --> 01:13:07.840
<v Speaker 3>to a new sacred and we're contributing to our community.

1299
01:13:08.039 --> 01:13:11.800
<v Speaker 3>That's the best part is like really communing with a

1300
01:13:11.880 --> 01:13:18.119
<v Speaker 3>living being and honoring that being as you know, living

1301
01:13:18.199 --> 01:13:22.159
<v Speaker 3>on and like I mentioned earlier, like to put a

1302
01:13:22.199 --> 01:13:25.479
<v Speaker 3>pin in that to the aversion to death. The culture

1303
01:13:25.560 --> 01:13:27.159
<v Speaker 3>I think we have is like we get to look

1304
01:13:27.199 --> 01:13:32.520
<v Speaker 3>at death head on and and share it as opposed

1305
01:13:32.520 --> 01:13:35.479
<v Speaker 3>to like be scared of it or look the other

1306
01:13:35.520 --> 01:13:38.880
<v Speaker 3>way to it. We deal with death every single day,

1307
01:13:39.840 --> 01:13:41.960
<v Speaker 3>and we get to deal with it in a way

1308
01:13:42.000 --> 01:13:46.680
<v Speaker 3>that's really beautiful and reverent. And I think that that's

1309
01:13:46.760 --> 01:13:53.000
<v Speaker 3>like by far the best part. You know, Mulco smells

1310
01:13:53.039 --> 01:13:53.640
<v Speaker 3>real good.

1311
01:13:53.600 --> 01:13:56.920
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, smells great. Death never smelled so good.

1312
01:13:56.960 --> 01:13:58.079
<v Speaker 3>Death never smelled so good.

1313
01:13:59.800 --> 01:14:03.800
<v Speaker 2>You can put on the coasters. Thank you so much

1314
01:14:03.840 --> 01:14:04.319
<v Speaker 2>for doing this.

1315
01:14:04.760 --> 01:14:05.640
<v Speaker 3>Thank you so much.

1316
01:14:05.720 --> 01:14:10.039
<v Speaker 2>Mash joy and absolute joy. So ask soft hearted people,

1317
01:14:10.079 --> 01:14:12.319
<v Speaker 2>hard questions because there's a good chance that they've been

1318
01:14:12.359 --> 01:14:15.000
<v Speaker 2>asked before and they love telling you the answers again.

1319
01:14:15.079 --> 01:14:17.920
<v Speaker 2>Angel City Lumber follow them on social media linked to

1320
01:14:17.960 --> 01:14:20.560
<v Speaker 2>the show notes. They only sell locally to LA, but

1321
01:14:20.680 --> 01:14:23.079
<v Speaker 2>I listed a bunch of other companies that Jeff mentioned,

1322
01:14:23.359 --> 01:14:26.199
<v Speaker 2>plus studies and books that we talked about at aliwar

1323
01:14:26.279 --> 01:14:31.319
<v Speaker 2>dot com, slash Ologies, slash Ziology. Happy Wooden Anniversary to

1324
01:14:31.520 --> 01:14:35.119
<v Speaker 2>us all, and thank you Jeff for joining us. Thank

1325
01:14:35.159 --> 01:14:37.359
<v Speaker 2>you to everyone at patreon dot com slash Ologies for

1326
01:14:37.479 --> 01:14:40.119
<v Speaker 2>supporting from before we were ever even launched. You can

1327
01:14:40.199 --> 01:14:42.239
<v Speaker 2>join for a dollar a month and some a bit. Questions.

1328
01:14:42.520 --> 01:14:44.960
<v Speaker 2>Merch is available at ologiesmerch dot com and thank you

1329
01:14:44.960 --> 01:14:47.760
<v Speaker 2>Suzinhale for managing that and so much more. Thank you

1330
01:14:47.760 --> 01:14:50.359
<v Speaker 2>Noel Dilworth for all the scheduling help. Aaron Talbert admins

1331
01:14:50.359 --> 01:14:52.640
<v Speaker 2>Theologies podcast Facebook group with This is from Bonni Dutch

1332
01:14:52.680 --> 01:14:54.319
<v Speaker 2>and Chhann and felts Us at the podcast. You are that.

1333
01:14:54.479 --> 01:14:57.239
<v Speaker 2>Mercedes Maitland and Seagred Biggest Thomas of mindcham Media make

1334
01:14:57.239 --> 01:14:59.800
<v Speaker 2>this Smologies episodes, which are short, twenty minute episodes that

1335
01:14:59.880 --> 01:15:02.600
<v Speaker 2>are classroom safe. Kelly Ardwyer helps with the website and

1336
01:15:02.640 --> 01:15:05.039
<v Speaker 2>she can make yours. Nick Thorburn wrote the theme music.

1337
01:15:05.119 --> 01:15:07.880
<v Speaker 2>Emily White of the Wordery makes professional transcripts in Caleb

1338
01:15:07.880 --> 01:15:10.079
<v Speaker 2>Patten Bleeps episodes, and those are up at alleywar dot

1339
01:15:10.079 --> 01:15:13.600
<v Speaker 2>com slash ologies dash extras for free. And the man

1340
01:15:13.800 --> 01:15:17.399
<v Speaker 2>who treats us all so well and edits these episodes

1341
01:15:17.680 --> 01:15:20.079
<v Speaker 2>is the one and only Jared Sleeper, who had a

1342
01:15:20.159 --> 01:15:23.640
<v Speaker 2>mullet trim and a birthday this week. Happy birthday to

1343
01:15:23.680 --> 01:15:26.600
<v Speaker 2>someone who makes the planet better. What a guy. And

1344
01:15:26.680 --> 01:15:28.439
<v Speaker 2>if you stick around until the end of the episode,

1345
01:15:28.479 --> 01:15:31.279
<v Speaker 2>I tell you secret. And this week tonight, Jarrett decided

1346
01:15:31.279 --> 01:15:33.760
<v Speaker 2>to make some apple sauce from scratch, and he peeled

1347
01:15:33.760 --> 01:15:36.359
<v Speaker 2>the apples like a normal human. And then I asked

1348
01:15:36.439 --> 01:15:39.640
<v Speaker 2>him to not throw away the apple peels, because I

1349
01:15:39.720 --> 01:15:42.439
<v Speaker 2>made a salad of just the apple peels with some

1350
01:15:42.560 --> 01:15:45.000
<v Speaker 2>chunks of cheddar cheese and some walnuts in it. And

1351
01:15:45.039 --> 01:15:48.920
<v Speaker 2>a few years ago I would have hesitated longer and

1352
01:15:49.039 --> 01:15:51.680
<v Speaker 2>not had this self assurance to say, please save that garbage.

1353
01:15:51.720 --> 01:15:54.000
<v Speaker 2>I'd like to eat the garbage, but there's just something

1354
01:15:54.000 --> 01:15:57.039
<v Speaker 2>about the texture of appeal. I went for it, no regrets.

1355
01:15:57.359 --> 01:15:59.640
<v Speaker 2>My favorite part of potato is a skin, but if

1356
01:15:59.640 --> 01:16:01.960
<v Speaker 2>we're being honest, A potato really only has two parts.

1357
01:16:01.960 --> 01:16:04.199
<v Speaker 2>It has the inside and the outside. Also, I eat

1358
01:16:04.239 --> 01:16:07.560
<v Speaker 2>everyone's pizza crust. I don't even care how well I

1359
01:16:07.600 --> 01:16:09.560
<v Speaker 2>know them. I'm like a dumpster rat.

1360
01:16:09.359 --> 01:16:23.479
<v Speaker 6>Who can drive a car. Okay, bye bye.

1361
01:16:31.520 --> 01:16:35.800
<v Speaker 3>I respect wood, I revere wood. I'm considerate of wood.

1362
01:16:47.000 --> 01:16:47.600
<v Speaker 2>Get value.

1363
01:16:47.640 --> 01:16:50.800
<v Speaker 4>You can't argue with Attezco with their amazing club card prices.

1364
01:16:51.119 --> 01:16:53.479
<v Speaker 4>Have the perfect night in with their finest frozen pizza

1365
01:16:53.479 --> 01:16:56.239
<v Speaker 4>meal deal. Get the finest frozen pizza, chips and ice

1366
01:16:56.279 --> 01:16:59.520
<v Speaker 4>cream all for six euro. Like a delicious spicy salami,

1367
01:16:59.600 --> 01:17:03.039
<v Speaker 4>hot on and doya or Margarito, wood fired pizzas served

1368
01:17:03.079 --> 01:17:05.680
<v Speaker 4>up with their crispy, chunky chips and ice cream like

1369
01:17:05.720 --> 01:17:09.000
<v Speaker 4>sea salta caramel or pistachio for dessert. Can't argue with

1370
01:17:09.039 --> 01:17:13.920
<v Speaker 4>that shopping store or online Tesco. Every little helps available

1371
01:17:13.920 --> 01:17:15.119
<v Speaker 4>in most stores, Prices varying.

1372
01:17:15.159 --> 01:17:15.560
<v Speaker 3>Express