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Speaker 1: What is up, fellow hardwood knock sickos. I am dan

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Fa Valley coming at you with the one, the only,

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this certified fantabulous, mister Grant Hughes. I'm even punching my

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fist into my hands. I'm just so amped up to

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talk about the Utah Jazz is NBA trade deadline primer

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before we get started, Grant, how goes it?

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Speaker 2: Just really happy that the Jazz, as we'll get to,

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being so far under the tax, have just decided to

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give us ten million dollars because they got to spend

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it at some point. You know, it's just that they're

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just not worried about it, so.

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Speaker 3: That was cool.

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Speaker 2: We don't need sponsors anymore. We're just we're flush with

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with right this.

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Speaker 1: This will service an announcement that we will be talking

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exclusively only about the Utah Jazz from here on.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, don't tell David Locke. I feel like he's got

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that market cornered.

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Speaker 3: Uh.

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Speaker 1: Are you willing to take us through the Utah Jazzes

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trade deadline finals?

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Speaker 2: Not only willing? I am able. I think we'll see.

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Like I said, forty three point eight million dollars below

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the tax. That's fun for them. They're forty They're projected

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to have forty nine point four million in cap space

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this summer. That includes Walker Kessler's cap hold, which is

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mainly the reason he did not get an extension, because

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that's an artificially low cap hold, and you want to

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keep those around if you can as a team. They're

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twenty twenty six first. This is relevant with top eight

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protection is ticketed for the Oklahoma City Thunder. Maybe less

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relevant than it seemed a little while ago, but still

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has been a real storyline for them. Well, their pick

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obligations have been a storyline for a couple of years.

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They do have several extra first round picks in this

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upcoming draft. They've got a swap with either Cleveland or Minnesota.

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In twenty seven, they get the two most favorable first

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of their own Minnesota Cleveland and the Lakers that's got

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top four protection. In twenty twenty eight, they got to

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swap with the Cavs twenty nine two most favorable of

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their own Cleveland or Minnesota's in twenty thirty one, Phoenix.

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That's from like the splitting one first into three or

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something like that, right, isn't that.

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Speaker 3: Hork the reverse Horcoxing what would that be.

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Speaker 2: I'll go with reverse, because the horror crux is you

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split into many and they split many into one.

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Speaker 1: Right, yeah, the Jazz, Yeah, they reverse horricocks. Yes, yeah,

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nice job.

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Speaker 2: Really want to make sure we get that right. It's

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very important. A couple trade exceptions three point six million

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from the PJ. Tucker deal that expires the day after

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the trade deadline, potentially more significantly, although they don't necessarily

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need it, eighteen point four million dollar trade exception from

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the John Collins deal that expires July seventh of twenty

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twenty six. Dan, the Jazz have been I don't know,

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you want to confounding, frustrating just because they've got all

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these picks. They've got some big contracts to move that

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seemingly don't make any sense there. They haven't really moved them.

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They haven't really messed around with any of these picks

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in the trade. They continue to like flirt with losing

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these first rounders and then having to do crazy stuff

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to keep them that they owe elsewhere. Just like in general,

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do you have any idea, like before we we can

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talk about what they should do, but like, what do

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you think they're going into this deadline? Looking to do.

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Speaker 1: I think you have to shut down or trade use

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of Nurkic because he's tallying too.

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Speaker 3: Many triple doubles. Ye't have It's you just you can't

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have it, do you?

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Speaker 1: So do you think that it's unfair that they've sort

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of become the pariah or the billboard for tanking in

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the league?

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Speaker 2: Well, I mean in some ways no, because they're the

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practitioners of like the kind of tanking that the second

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worst kind, the worst kind is the process sixers kind.

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That's what the league has been afraid of. The second

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worst kind is like, oh shit, we're like kind of good.

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We shouldn't do that. That that that's that's a that's

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a bit of a problem. Like they've started seasons looking

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better than their incentives suggest that they should be, and then

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they have to shut people down and get fine for

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it and all this other stuff. Like so in some

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ways it's earned. That's not to say that like they've

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made the wrong decisions. If anything, they haven't tanked aggressively

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enough soon enough.

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Speaker 1: They've tried it seems like, well, uh, they just keep

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like extracting more out of their players than anybody.

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Speaker 2: But who is the poster child for for tanking. If

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not them, I mean they they just I.

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Speaker 1: Just I honestly don't think it's as big of a

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problem as organizational incompetence. So I just don't tanking doesn't.

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We had a long podcast about it. I want to

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go check it out. It just doesn't. It really doesn't.

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I'm open to like some of the solutions, especially the

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ones you and I came up with, because they're perfect,

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but it just I guess that's why I take exception

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to a t I understand where the fan base is

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frustrated with this, but so like I'm willing to have

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more of a discussion about that, but like my I

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have a bigger issue with the Pelicans or the Kings.

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I've more problems with those organizations that aren't actively tanking.

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Speaker 2: But still, anyway, yeah, I think that's fair teams that

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are just like perennially.

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Speaker 3: And I'm not saying.

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Speaker 1: I just don't understand the hyper focus. I know I

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asked you a different question.

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Speaker 3: I just can't.

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Speaker 1: I'm not moved by the tanking discussion anymore, to be.

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Speaker 2: Honest, No, I mean partly because we've we've talked about

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it enough and we're both kind of sick of it.

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But I do think like the Jazz are just that

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team that is this three years in a row where

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it was like they should try to be bad for

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really it peaked with the Wemby Draft that was the one,

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but then it's just been years and years of ah, man,

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we got to steer into it because we're not quite

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as bad as we'd like to be.

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Speaker 1: Do you think do you think then their approach is

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going to be not hold fire because I even look

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at this team, if you could say, well, they need

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to sell off guys that are helping them win that

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aren't important in the long term, but it's what are

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you getting for use of Nurkic. I think their approach

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at the deadline, I think it can be split two ways.

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You have all that room underneath attacks, as you pointed out,

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can you get assets or interesting young players attached, like

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because teams want your expiring or you have that that

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John Collins trade exception. If you want cap space this summer,

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that's immaterial, then you're gonna have to renounce that anyway.

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Speaker 3: Use it.

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Speaker 1: Take in just like take in this eighteen million dollar

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player to help a team save money. DeAndre Hunter. Welcome

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to utah or no, he makes too much. I apologize,

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that's my bad.

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Speaker 2: No, No, I think so, I think what makes the

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most sense in light of all that, all the I

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mean the glut of flexibility relative to the rest of

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the league that trade exception the expirings they have, Like,

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I think maybe what they should approach the deadline thinking

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is like how do we facilitate, like how do we

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pick up stuff just for kind of being here and

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being able to grease the skids on deals that can't happen,

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you know, with between Team A and Team B without us?

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Is that maybe the way to go?

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Speaker 1: Like, yes, I think I think one hundred percent away

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to go, But I would like to propose another avenue.

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Speaker 3: Okay, why not buy with the intent for next season?

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Speaker 1: Because doesn't it seem like this is the last year

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they're gonna do this rigamarole?

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Speaker 2: Well, that's the question is is like how much longer

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can you're going on a half decade of of whatever

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this is. I think I think your right to bring

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that up as like a real option of like at

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some point you gotta you gotta like change the direction

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a little bit, you gotta go for something. I think

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that's that's totally reasonable. But what does that what does

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that look like then? And who who does that involve? Potentially?

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Speaker 3: Well, I mean you have expiring contracts and flexibility.

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Speaker 1: It's it's more so were you're willing to give up

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draft picks to go out and get somebody? And I

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think that could bleed into Okay, what is Utah's biggest need?

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And so I think that actually we probably need to

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start here, So let's get let's get the cliche questions

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done first. Would you consider moving Walker Kesler, who's out

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for the year and headed towards restricted free agency?

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Speaker 2: I wouldn't. I think he's a starting caliber center with

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like a borderline superpower just as a room protector and rebounder.

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And I think restrictive free agency is just a bitch

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these days from a player's perspective, and you should exploit

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it if you're the Jazz and plus like that seems

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to have been the plan all along. I don't know why.

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I don't think an injury should should turn you away

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from that. The only scenario where I would really seriously

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consider moving him is if he do you remember that

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presser he had where it was like pretty frustrated by

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not getting an extension. If that has like metastasized to

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the point where it's like he's gonna be pissed off

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no matter how much you pay him, I then maybe,

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But I don't feel like that's where we're at with that.

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Speaker 3: I have nothing to add. I'm with you.

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Speaker 1: I wouldn't look if some team bowls you over, he's

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not at the level. But you say that about every

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player the next one, what would it take for them

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to consider moving Lowry market? And I think to me,

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it's not even necessarily about what's realistic. It's as the

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jazz and the direct that we're mapping out for them,

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what is it actually gonna take for you to then

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sell to your fan base that hey, we kind of took.

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Speaker 3: It's not just a step back this year.

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Speaker 1: I don't know how you move Larry market and then

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plan on getting better for next year.

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Speaker 2: Unless you're moving him like with those some of those

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extra picks you have, which is like.

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Speaker 3: They're the honest team.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, who are you talking about? And that's like right,

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like I'm working really good, Like he is a he's

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you know, your mileage of my vary on, Like is

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he a legitimate All Star all the time? I mean

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maybe not, but also maybe if you had a real

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team around him more consistently, Like.

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry, until this season, the fact that he was

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ever playing all star caliber basketball like pre Kyante George breakout,

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that's that matters a shit ton. Now I got a

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little bit too low on him. Apparently he really was

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injured last year. I just I got a little ahead

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oft my skis and was concerned about how he looked

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last year.

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Speaker 3: Not that I thought he was faking.

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Speaker 1: Injury, but I wondered, oh, this feels well, this was problematic.

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Speaker 2: Easy assumption after like where did that breakout you're come from?

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Then he's a little worse. It's like, oh, right, okay,

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that was the anomaly. No, he's he's really good. I

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think the fact that they didn't trade him when he

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was cheaper and then did the renegotiating extend. Right, that's

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it was a renegotiating extent, wasn't it. At that point,

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you've devalued him a little bit because he costs so

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much more, and now you're trying to avoid going on

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a fifth year of like, I don't know, I'll win

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fifteen to thirty games, Like he is easily good enough

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to be the best player on a team that wins

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half its games, and way more than that on a

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team with like decent talent around him. I think. So

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now I think you just hang on to.

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Speaker 3: Him because that's my default.

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Speaker 2: That's where that's that's changed over the years though, right like,

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because there were definitely timeshere was like you should trade

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this guy. This doesn't make any sense.

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Speaker 1: I think at minimum as the Jazz because I don't

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think this offers out there, but you never know. It's

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the Desmond Baine package is the okay, And I'm normally

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not as hard and fast on it needs to be

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this the context matters. There's bad contracts coming back if

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I'm the Jazz just based off how the past three

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years is unfolded. No, it's the Desmond bane package without

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bad money. That's just my minimum. It's and then that

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gets me thinking and you have to look into, okay, well,

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what what's the team? What do these picks look like?

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I'm just not I can't. I'm not moving him. Doesn't

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seem like they're going to and but he seems super

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happy there, so we can talk about like, oh, like

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Zach Low had said, and this is fair like it's

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a bummer to see lowry market and play out his prime,

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spinning his wheels on this team. Sure, but if he's happy, right,

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I don't care.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, right, shouldn't matter. If he's actually satisfied, doesn't matter

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what we think we would feel in that scenario. I

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just just to illustrate kind of what we're talking about,

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like the teams that you know, we've all done it,

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like thought up the Okay, where does he really make sense?

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Where could he make an impact? Say Detroit? So what's

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that offer got to look like from Detroit? Because you're

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taking back Harris. I don't know how you feel about Ivy.

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Maybe you're demanding like Thompson or Holland is in there.

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Speaker 3: For first?

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Speaker 1: Yep, it's one of those young players, and then three

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to four for one of the Thompson it'll be Holland

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because they're not giving up Thompson. It's Holland and four

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first as the like that's the If I'm the Jazz,

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I understand why the Pistons would hang up the.

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Speaker 3: Phone not text back. I would put your email to spam.

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Speaker 1: However, these executives are talking with each other, hopefully not

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on signal or at least don't let a weak out

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or make sure there's no journalists on there. My whole

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thing is if I'm the like that, yes, that's honestly

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in a vacuum, that's an unreasonable stance for the Jazz

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to take good. That's what they should absolutely be like

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in these Larry market And negotiations. So and they don't.

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You could talk about how are these contracts like Jared

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Jackson Junior is a good example, or maybe bam At

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a bio of what could they get in a trade

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like a stent Utah doesn't have the salary concerns that

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these other teams do. So, and it's also Larry Marketen

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is well, those other two are plug and play. Those

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are bad examples. So it's just you Tais who's getting

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Walker Kesler gets more expensive, and then a year out

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Chianta George gets more expensive. The year after that is

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when you need to be concerned. Hey, guess what Larry

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markin is an expiring contract at that point. So I'm like,

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it just doesn't matter exactly. So what do you view

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as their biggest need? More minutes for Cody Williams.

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Speaker 2: I agree, more minutes the revamped Cody Williams, who finishes

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at the rim now he looks.

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Speaker 1: So I mean, honestly, I want McHale Bridges to study

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how Cody Williams absorbs contact.

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Speaker 3: Now.

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Speaker 2: I mean, it's possible we got a little too low

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on Cody Williams, but that's because the numbers were what

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they were, what they had.

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Speaker 1: I never gave up hope, but I did, and I

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will still walk back.

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Speaker 3: He was at the top of my draft big board.

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Speaker 1: So I was wrong. I'm not sorry because he's clearly

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going to be at least a perennial All Star. He

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just might not make the Hall of Fame. That's the breaks,

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you know.

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Speaker 2: Well, so their needs are trick because they have several players,

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I mean, in some ways, like Cody Williams that are

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pretty young, like I think Heanta George has graduated out

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of that class. But you still got Ace Bailey. I

300
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don't know what you think about Isaiah Collier. They've got

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all these guys that are like squint and like right

302
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sense of ba like you squint, and it's like, man,

303
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there's like some productive Knights in there, and I could see,

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you know, not wanting to bring in somebody over the

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top of these guys. I would say, George maybe now

306
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is the only one that I would really have that

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concern with, Like, if Bailey's gonna be great, like, it'll

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happen whether you bring in another quality veteran wing or not,

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Like it'll like if any you know what I mean.

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Like for some guys that matters. But if Bailey's gonna

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be what you think he is, it will show regardless

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of the situation. So I don't really have a great answer.

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I think because we've kind of decided, well, you bring

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back Kessler, don't trade market in. We like George as

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a breakout guy this year, who'll maybe at least get better.

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Speaker 1: Couldn't you say they have their core four of the

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medium term future in place at the very least.

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Speaker 2: So if that's true, yes, And so if that's true,

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what do you do with all this? What do you

320
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do with this flexibility? What kind we go get an

321
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All Star? Is that what we're doing?

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Speaker 3: Well?

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Speaker 1: You could, I think you could, But like I think

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the more realistic scenario would be the Jazz taking Flyers

325
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on first of all, their defense. I know Walker Kessler's injured.

326
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It is an atrocity that it is just parades to

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the It's just it's so bad it's just so bad.

328
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I mean, shout out to the Lakers for being worse

329
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at rim defense than the Jazz over the past month

330
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and a half. Though that's hang hang the banner. Actually,

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I'm not gonna lie.

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Speaker 2: Well to that point. Sorry, Just as we're thinking about

333
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what to do here, if Kessler is a key piece,

334
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you can't just go get wings that defend and don't

335
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stretch the floor because Kessler is not gonna you know

336
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what I mean, Like you're a little bit limited. Don't

337
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don't do the Kessler. Don't do it. Don't be that guy. No,

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I know, I know you're not serious. But that's that's

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the thing to consider, is if you're gonna be built

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with Kessler as a center, you're not getting stretched there,

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so you you're gonna need it everywhere else as you

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try to build out the defense.

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Speaker 1: Right, and so I think, I don't know, I'm not

344
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gonna say first and foremost, but I think most realistically

345
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the Jazz looking at flyers for wing defenders, even if

346
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they compromise the offense like a what like Ben Shepperd

347
00:16:22,480 --> 00:16:24,159
is not playing in India Ton anymore.

348
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Speaker 3: It's just had a really bad offensive season for them.

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Speaker 1: I Tarry Easan the we just saw the report that

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he's not available in Houston. He's also he's a restricted

351
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free agent though in the Jazz will have cap space,

352
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but he would be an excellent fit on this team.

353
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The name I have two names that I find hyper interesting.

354
00:16:41,279 --> 00:16:43,840
Uh what would it take to get Max Christy out

355
00:16:43,840 --> 00:16:44,360
of Dallas?

356
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Speaker 2: Man? I love Max Christie? Could you?

357
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Speaker 1: So you would have George Christy Bailey marketing and Kessler

358
00:16:55,360 --> 00:16:58,639
as you're projected starting five, that's I don't know what

359
00:16:58,679 --> 00:17:01,159
that is on defense, Like Kessler and Christy and Bailey

360
00:17:01,200 --> 00:17:03,440
are doing a lot. But maybe you skip ahead, like

361
00:17:03,480 --> 00:17:05,839
a year or two when Bailey's a little bit more marinated.

362
00:17:06,440 --> 00:17:10,640
That could be your good positional size basically across the board.

363
00:17:11,000 --> 00:17:14,079
Speaker 2: That Christy might just be like he's just a premium

364
00:17:14,119 --> 00:17:16,839
shooter Like that really might be where we are with

365
00:17:16,880 --> 00:17:20,079
That's also problematic for trade negotiations because well, sure, but

366
00:17:20,240 --> 00:17:23,119
you know, I'm trying. I know, uh, we're just looking

367
00:17:23,160 --> 00:17:26,319
at him. But yeah, he that's interesting. I don't you

368
00:17:26,319 --> 00:17:27,640
think Christy costs you a first?

369
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Speaker 3: I would argue Christy's probably costing you to first.

370
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Speaker 2: I don't know, man, are we doing well?

371
00:17:33,240 --> 00:17:36,400
Speaker 1: Maybe it's not it's not a jazz first, I don't think. Yeah,

372
00:17:36,400 --> 00:17:38,680
but it's a look at these other teams as first

373
00:17:38,680 --> 00:17:41,119
that they have. It's are you getting know when you

374
00:17:41,160 --> 00:17:42,960
have the least favorable of like or like you have

375
00:17:42,960 --> 00:17:47,039
a Minnesota or a Cleveland pick it's probably multiples of those,

376
00:17:47,079 --> 00:17:48,599
So it's let's just say you get I mean, they

377
00:17:48,599 --> 00:17:50,319
don't actually need to send Ooka and Dallas needs to

378
00:17:50,319 --> 00:17:52,640
cut costs anyway, so they send out no money. Max

379
00:17:52,720 --> 00:17:56,200
Christy just comes into the John Collins trade exception. Uh,

380
00:17:56,440 --> 00:17:59,920
next year it's you get the two most favorable of Minnesota,

381
00:18:00,039 --> 00:18:02,599
Cleveland and your own and you give so do you

382
00:18:02,599 --> 00:18:04,240
give the second most savable that and then it's the

383
00:18:04,240 --> 00:18:05,720
same thing in twenty twenty nine.

384
00:18:06,079 --> 00:18:09,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, you can trade shares basically of these swaps. That's interesting.

385
00:18:11,400 --> 00:18:16,400
What about Peyton Watson, Oh, assuming he's going anywhere, which

386
00:18:16,440 --> 00:18:17,759
probably he's not, because.

387
00:18:17,960 --> 00:18:21,640
Speaker 1: Man he would Yeah, I mean yes, they should, yes,

388
00:18:21,640 --> 00:18:25,119
they should be interested. But is that when you look

389
00:18:25,160 --> 00:18:28,160
at Tarry Eason versus Peyton Watson in the salary structure

390
00:18:28,160 --> 00:18:30,960
of Houston and Denver, Peyton Watson feels like if you

391
00:18:31,119 --> 00:18:33,400
just came from the top rope and restricted free agency,

392
00:18:33,440 --> 00:18:36,559
you are more likely to get him that way than

393
00:18:36,559 --> 00:18:37,240
you would Easton.

394
00:18:37,319 --> 00:18:38,960
Speaker 3: Does that mean work out? Do you think I'm miss

395
00:18:39,000 --> 00:18:39,799
misreading there?

396
00:18:40,759 --> 00:18:45,400
Speaker 2: No meaning, Like if both of those two are restricted

397
00:18:45,440 --> 00:18:49,480
free agents, Denver is more likely to blink than Houston

398
00:18:49,599 --> 00:18:56,559
is on matching. Yes, I mean, given Denver's history, probably, Yeah.

399
00:18:57,039 --> 00:18:58,720
Speaker 3: Their history is they pay their own guys.

400
00:18:59,160 --> 00:19:01,839
Speaker 2: Yeah, but like it's pretty clear they've got an upper

401
00:19:01,839 --> 00:19:04,319
limit on what they're willing to pay. Overall, it seems

402
00:19:04,319 --> 00:19:06,640
like they've made these strip it down moves.

403
00:19:07,039 --> 00:19:07,839
Speaker 3: I can't believe.

404
00:19:08,000 --> 00:19:09,759
Speaker 1: I bet you this has probably been like an idea

405
00:19:09,839 --> 00:19:11,960
for a month now, and I'm thinking that it's we're

406
00:19:12,039 --> 00:19:14,599
coming up with something trunning. What if the Nuggets are

407
00:19:14,640 --> 00:19:17,519
just so invested in Peyton Watson. Now, if you're looking

408
00:19:17,559 --> 00:19:19,799
for a team that could work out the poison pill

409
00:19:19,839 --> 00:19:22,000
provision Christian Brown, hmmm?

410
00:19:24,240 --> 00:19:25,119
Speaker 2: Is he overpaid?

411
00:19:25,119 --> 00:19:25,400
Speaker 3: Though?

412
00:19:25,480 --> 00:19:26,519
Speaker 2: Like, do you or do you care?

413
00:19:26,640 --> 00:19:28,599
Speaker 3: As the uner point, do the Jazz need to care?

414
00:19:29,680 --> 00:19:32,920
Speaker 2: Right? Do you care? Yeah? That's interesting. So if there's

415
00:19:32,920 --> 00:19:36,799
a team that could navigate the poison pill stuff, probably,

416
00:19:36,839 --> 00:19:39,559
I mean it's Utah just because of the flexibility they

417
00:19:39,559 --> 00:19:44,480
have in the trade exception. Interesting I mean, he would

418
00:19:45,200 --> 00:19:49,359
really give you some balance with George, Like basically his

419
00:19:49,559 --> 00:19:52,880
entire value is defensively, in transition and off the ball,

420
00:19:53,240 --> 00:19:55,599
So George can just keep doing what he does while

421
00:19:55,640 --> 00:19:59,319
getting shielded from the toughest backcourt matchup. Gotta say, Dan,

422
00:19:59,359 --> 00:20:01,559
I don't hate it, makes it makes a lot of sense.

423
00:20:03,400 --> 00:20:05,519
And then Denver does save money. Yeah, that's interesting.

424
00:20:07,640 --> 00:20:10,359
Speaker 3: Would you give up a first round pick for Christian Brown?

425
00:20:10,559 --> 00:20:11,759
You would have to, but would you?

426
00:20:13,680 --> 00:20:16,599
Speaker 2: I don't am I wrong to not be totally sold

427
00:20:16,720 --> 00:20:19,519
on him for what he's going to be making going forward.

428
00:20:20,599 --> 00:20:22,640
Speaker 1: The concern for me would be, well, what does he

429
00:20:22,720 --> 00:20:25,920
look like outside of the Yolkic power vacuum? Because Utah

430
00:20:25,960 --> 00:20:27,680
just doesn't have a playmaker on now. I think they

431
00:20:27,680 --> 00:20:30,519
could carve out there. Will Hardy's an excellent offensive coach.

432
00:20:30,559 --> 00:20:32,680
So I just feel like Christian Brown would figure it out.

433
00:20:33,039 --> 00:20:34,720
But if it's a first round pick and then you

434
00:20:34,839 --> 00:20:36,599
got a game it with a third team, because there

435
00:20:36,640 --> 00:20:39,759
is still he doesn't slide into technically the trade exception

436
00:20:39,839 --> 00:20:42,759
because I think his averages out to over eighteen million.

437
00:20:42,799 --> 00:20:45,960
But like you could move Nurkic's expiring deal elsewhere, you

438
00:20:45,960 --> 00:20:48,160
could send someone to Brooklyn take back a smaller it's

439
00:20:48,519 --> 00:20:50,480
this is a team that could make it work, which

440
00:20:50,480 --> 00:20:52,000
you could probably ask the same question, why don't the

441
00:20:52,000 --> 00:20:54,279
Nets just you know, inquire about Christian Brown?

442
00:20:54,319 --> 00:20:56,480
Speaker 2: But I mean it seems like what we're getting to though,

443
00:20:56,599 --> 00:20:58,880
is like the type of player that Utah needs to

444
00:20:58,920 --> 00:21:01,160
go to for several other teams we've done, it's like

445
00:21:02,000 --> 00:21:04,759
could they close in theory? Like is so you know

446
00:21:04,799 --> 00:21:07,359
that's the threshold for a lot of this. It's like

447
00:21:07,480 --> 00:21:09,200
for you saw, it's got to be like this guy

448
00:21:09,279 --> 00:21:12,599
is a no questions asked starter, right, like if it's

449
00:21:12,640 --> 00:21:14,640
to justify giving up unless.

450
00:21:14,319 --> 00:21:17,039
Speaker 1: You're just doing for a first Yeah, yeah, I don't

451
00:21:17,039 --> 00:21:19,359
know one of those others like that twenty twenty seven

452
00:21:19,599 --> 00:21:20,680
least favorable first.

453
00:21:20,759 --> 00:21:22,039
Speaker 3: But because if guy.

454
00:21:22,039 --> 00:21:25,759
Speaker 2: For them, what's the point of like a smaller incremental Look,

455
00:21:25,960 --> 00:21:27,759
so this guy might be our seventh or eighth guy,

456
00:21:27,839 --> 00:21:28,880
Like what's why.

457
00:21:29,039 --> 00:21:31,880
Speaker 1: Well, for this year's pick, do you view that where

458
00:21:31,920 --> 00:21:33,839
they end up without knowing the lottery, it's tough, but

459
00:21:33,839 --> 00:21:35,960
if they do, Oh, we have this top five prospect

460
00:21:36,000 --> 00:21:36,400
coming in.

461
00:21:36,880 --> 00:21:38,119
Speaker 3: Do we want them to start?

462
00:21:38,599 --> 00:21:41,920
Speaker 2: Mhmm, well maybe maybe not, depending on if you're gonna

463
00:21:42,160 --> 00:21:44,440
finally push the pedal down next year, like you probably

464
00:21:44,440 --> 00:21:47,000
shouldn't be starting a rookie, you know, unless this, unless

465
00:21:47,039 --> 00:21:48,359
it is really a high lottery pick.

466
00:21:48,400 --> 00:21:51,839
Speaker 1: I don't know, uh one more name before I have

467
00:21:52,160 --> 00:21:55,160
a question to ask. Okay, this could this be an

468
00:21:55,200 --> 00:21:59,240
interesting Jaron Jackson junior team.

469
00:21:59,359 --> 00:22:03,039
Speaker 2: Well, so you're moving market In back to the three

470
00:22:03,559 --> 00:22:06,559
in the essentially, or you're not bringing Kessler back.

471
00:22:07,079 --> 00:22:09,000
Speaker 3: No, no, you're bringing it. So would be Kessler market

472
00:22:09,039 --> 00:22:10,039
and Jackson Bailey.

473
00:22:10,119 --> 00:22:12,079
Speaker 1: I mean you talk about having good positional size and

474
00:22:12,119 --> 00:22:13,720
then Kean George.

475
00:22:13,599 --> 00:22:15,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean a lot of times what you do,

476
00:22:16,079 --> 00:22:18,599
what teams have done to substitute, Like if you can't

477
00:22:18,599 --> 00:22:20,839
get good defenders, at least get big ones and and

478
00:22:20,960 --> 00:22:23,839
sometimes that goes a long way. You have.

479
00:22:25,359 --> 00:22:29,079
Speaker 3: Two great defenders and then it's three.

480
00:22:29,119 --> 00:22:31,640
Speaker 1: Okay, Keantae George's gotten a little better, like you said,

481
00:22:31,640 --> 00:22:34,400
marketing with the size. We don't know what Ace Bailey

482
00:22:34,480 --> 00:22:36,640
is gonna be, but I think I think Ace Bailey

483
00:22:36,759 --> 00:22:41,400
is going to his his median outcome feels like slightly

484
00:22:41,440 --> 00:22:42,640
above average defenders.

485
00:22:42,640 --> 00:22:45,400
Speaker 2: He should be fine, right, Like, at least it may

486
00:22:45,440 --> 00:22:48,359
not be great, but he shouldn't be just getting picked on,

487
00:22:48,440 --> 00:22:52,279
for example. Yeah, I think that's that's fair man, that's interesting.

488
00:22:52,319 --> 00:22:55,839
That's a lot of depending on what Kessler winds up costing,

489
00:22:56,400 --> 00:22:58,079
it's a lot of resources up front.

490
00:22:58,119 --> 00:22:58,319
Speaker 3: Yep.

491
00:22:59,079 --> 00:23:02,240
Speaker 2: That's but if you think market in offensively, marketing can

492
00:23:02,279 --> 00:23:05,279
absolutely be a three. I think I like, that's that's workable.

493
00:23:05,319 --> 00:23:08,640
With the way he moves off the ball, that's really interesting,

494
00:23:09,160 --> 00:23:11,680
and they could just go do it right. They got

495
00:23:11,680 --> 00:23:15,559
the assets whatever whatever Memphis wants out of a Jackson deal,

496
00:23:15,720 --> 00:23:18,160
you talking can offer it now.

497
00:23:18,200 --> 00:23:20,440
Speaker 1: I think the key here Now if it's a Max Christie,

498
00:23:20,599 --> 00:23:22,960
which is I think it's probably just a cleaner fit

499
00:23:23,079 --> 00:23:24,960
because it's lower stakes when you're looking at the money,

500
00:23:25,039 --> 00:23:27,880
or even a Christian Brown it's just making half of

501
00:23:27,920 --> 00:23:30,799
what Jackson does per year. Moving forward, those decisions are

502
00:23:30,839 --> 00:23:33,559
easier to make. I do wonder how much of this

503
00:23:33,599 --> 00:23:38,559
comes down to they buy into Oh, Keante George can

504
00:23:38,680 --> 00:23:42,400
be the offense of the primary offensive engine, like the

505
00:23:42,440 --> 00:23:46,599
actual the floor general of the future for them, and

506
00:23:46,960 --> 00:23:49,839
if they buy into that and for what it's going

507
00:23:49,920 --> 00:23:51,519
to cost them and his extension or if he gets

508
00:23:51,519 --> 00:23:54,559
the restricted free agency, I think that makes it easier

509
00:23:55,400 --> 00:23:58,559
to be aggressive now as a buyer, because it's not

510
00:23:58,599 --> 00:24:01,279
necessarily going to get any easy year for you. As

511
00:24:01,359 --> 00:24:05,119
Kessler gets more expensive, as George gets more expensive, they

512
00:24:05,200 --> 00:24:07,160
kind of have the if you wanted to make a

513
00:24:07,160 --> 00:24:12,079
really big swing without moving any of your core players,

514
00:24:12,640 --> 00:24:16,920
it's kind of this trade deadline or like into next

515
00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:18,039
year's trade deadline.

516
00:24:18,240 --> 00:24:22,480
Speaker 2: Right, yeah, yeah, well that's the thing we said. Oh man,

517
00:24:22,559 --> 00:24:24,880
the clock's ticking fast. Not really, it's been like five

518
00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:26,440
years of this for the Jets. No that I think

519
00:24:26,480 --> 00:24:28,200
that's right. There is a little bit of urgency in

520
00:24:28,240 --> 00:24:31,000
that sense before we move on front. I don't know

521
00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:33,799
where we're going next. But with respect to George, we

522
00:24:33,880 --> 00:24:36,119
both have I think you said it and I co

523
00:24:36,279 --> 00:24:39,240
signed it or vice versa. But it was like Keante,

524
00:24:39,359 --> 00:24:42,640
George's progress is great, I still want he's I still

525
00:24:42,640 --> 00:24:45,440
want no part of him, like running my team long

526
00:24:45,519 --> 00:24:48,599
term some version of that. I think we generally agreed

527
00:24:48,640 --> 00:24:52,559
on where are we now and let's speak for both

528
00:24:52,640 --> 00:24:55,559
of us, like because this has gone on long enough

529
00:24:55,559 --> 00:24:57,720
this year and there have been enough like kind of

530
00:24:59,079 --> 00:25:01,599
nights where you look where you see the film, where

531
00:25:01,599 --> 00:25:04,799
you check the box scoring you're like, this is still happening. Huh,

532
00:25:04,839 --> 00:25:08,599
Like he's still really this is persisted? Are you any

533
00:25:08,599 --> 00:25:12,880
closer to being comfortable with like this is our lead

534
00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:17,680
guard indefinitely in Utah, Like we believe that offensively with

535
00:25:17,799 --> 00:25:21,720
him and then Markenen, we're gonna we're gonna have enough

536
00:25:21,880 --> 00:25:22,960
to be a real offense.

537
00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:28,680
Speaker 1: I'm I don't know that I'm quite there, just because

538
00:25:28,680 --> 00:25:30,759
I do think you're still going to give back a

539
00:25:30,799 --> 00:25:35,039
ton defensively, but I'm a lot closer and the way

540
00:25:35,079 --> 00:25:39,039
that Utah's offense can often work out even with Kante

541
00:25:39,119 --> 00:25:42,519
George still being such this wild card player when it

542
00:25:42,559 --> 00:25:45,680
comes to his self created jump shots, the fact that

543
00:25:45,720 --> 00:25:47,839
he seems more willing to work off the ball to

544
00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:51,079
take smarter shots, and just his efficiency on those. I mean,

545
00:25:51,119 --> 00:25:54,240
like he's in the ninetieth percentile points per shot attempt.

546
00:25:54,279 --> 00:25:58,880
And that's while being like still statistically bad. It's not

547
00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:02,519
just like shaky statistically bad as a pull up jump shooter.

548
00:26:02,960 --> 00:26:05,720
So he's and this is Justin's January first, his effective

549
00:26:05,720 --> 00:26:09,920
field goal percentage on pull up jumpers is sub forty percent. Still,

550
00:26:10,319 --> 00:26:12,839
so like that concern is still there, and so I'm

551
00:26:13,319 --> 00:26:15,000
that's still in the back of my mind. But I

552
00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:16,920
think I'm more at the point to where it's unless

553
00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:19,079
someone's coming in and saying, well, we view George as

554
00:26:19,119 --> 00:26:22,160
the guy, and here is all these juicy first round picks.

555
00:26:22,440 --> 00:26:25,759
I'm looking at it through the prism of I'm not

556
00:26:25,920 --> 00:26:28,640
going bonkers in an extent like he is not to me,

557
00:26:28,720 --> 00:26:31,000
he's not a max guy. Like the numbers have been nice,

558
00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:33,400
but like you can't be on the season forty two

559
00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:35,920
effective field goal percentage on pull up jumpers. I'd play

560
00:26:35,920 --> 00:26:38,039
it out to restricted free agency. So I'm not sold

561
00:26:38,039 --> 00:26:41,599
to the extent of no, he's no like he needs

562
00:26:41,640 --> 00:26:43,799
to get the twenty five percent max close to it.

563
00:26:44,240 --> 00:26:47,839
But I think that you can feel pretty good about

564
00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:52,720
building a sustainably elite offense with him as your league guard.

565
00:26:53,400 --> 00:26:56,480
Imperfections and all because of I'll point to the improvements

566
00:26:56,480 --> 00:26:58,720
I think in terms of shot selection and off ball reads.

567
00:26:59,039 --> 00:27:01,079
The passing has gotten better, and I think even the

568
00:27:01,119 --> 00:27:04,599
big one is just he's still treated like I don't

569
00:27:04,599 --> 00:27:06,759
want to quite say, a five alarm fire off the dribble,

570
00:27:07,039 --> 00:27:09,039
but like the look at his free throw attempt rate

571
00:27:09,079 --> 00:27:11,079
compared with that just says all we need to know.

572
00:27:11,279 --> 00:27:14,440
Speaker 2: That's what I was gonna get to I would just flag,

573
00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:17,519
so I to answer my own question, I'm closer to

574
00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:20,880
just yet. Can you get Cooper Flagg? You do well.

575
00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:24,160
Speaker 1: On util there's kind of some redundancy with Taylor Hendrix

576
00:27:24,240 --> 00:27:26,160
in LOWD a little bit, a little.

577
00:27:25,960 --> 00:27:31,480
Speaker 2: Bit, I'll be fascinated to seek So George, it's early still,

578
00:27:31,759 --> 00:27:34,440
but he doesn't he feel like the type of player

579
00:27:34,559 --> 00:27:37,720
that he It does need to work out as a

580
00:27:37,799 --> 00:27:42,720
lead guy because even though the elite free throw accuracy

581
00:27:42,799 --> 00:27:46,039
and the catch and shoot stuff suggests, like, I mean,

582
00:27:46,079 --> 00:27:48,160
he's going to be great off the ball if if

583
00:27:48,160 --> 00:27:52,359
that's what you want, but that type of guy with

584
00:27:52,480 --> 00:27:56,319
his size that doesn't defend, doesn't really have that much

585
00:27:56,440 --> 00:27:58,720
value off the ball. So it's kind of like a

586
00:27:58,799 --> 00:28:01,519
high bar to clear this to quote unquote work out

587
00:28:01,559 --> 00:28:04,160
for him, because I think he does actually need to

588
00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:08,960
be like the lead guy who's self created efficiency improves

589
00:28:08,960 --> 00:28:12,880
a lot, because otherwise he's an undersized guard that doesn't

590
00:28:12,920 --> 00:28:17,559
defend that scores and the league just doesn't value that

591
00:28:17,599 --> 00:28:20,759
player type, and you definitely don't build around that player type.

592
00:28:20,920 --> 00:28:23,920
You know, you're you're Jalen Green. It's a tough comparison

593
00:28:23,960 --> 00:28:28,920
because he does have some encouraging like secondary scorer indicators

594
00:28:28,960 --> 00:28:30,559
just to catch and shoot stuff in the free. You know,

595
00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:32,839
do you understand what I'm saying? Like he needs to

596
00:28:32,960 --> 00:28:37,839
kind of be that exceptionally valuable type of offensive player

597
00:28:38,480 --> 00:28:43,839
because if he isn't, then his value kind of craters because, Okay, well,

598
00:28:43,839 --> 00:28:45,559
now he's just a guy that scores, you know what

599
00:28:45,640 --> 00:28:47,119
I mean? Right?

600
00:28:47,200 --> 00:28:50,200
Speaker 1: And I think you know he's still at it's just

601
00:28:51,240 --> 00:28:53,279
the mid range efficiency being where it is this year.

602
00:28:53,319 --> 00:28:55,599
I think, like if you're just gonna say that he's

603
00:28:55,599 --> 00:28:57,519
forty five percent from mid range all year, and like

604
00:28:57,559 --> 00:28:59,000
the way he's getting to those shots, it is just

605
00:28:59,039 --> 00:29:01,519
weird that it doesn't align with his pull up percentage necessarily.

606
00:29:01,599 --> 00:29:04,799
I think that's probably okay, but I need I feel

607
00:29:04,799 --> 00:29:06,920
like I probably need like to pull up three to

608
00:29:06,960 --> 00:29:08,480
come up a little bit, or just to be more

609
00:29:08,519 --> 00:29:11,839
of a bankable just he can take he can get off,

610
00:29:11,880 --> 00:29:14,319
even for his size, really difficult shots, but they need

611
00:29:14,359 --> 00:29:19,039
to be more money to me, because without that, doesn't

612
00:29:19,079 --> 00:29:21,039
it feel like there's a chance, even if it's a

613
00:29:21,079 --> 00:29:24,240
lower chance than it was before, that he's better suited

614
00:29:24,400 --> 00:29:28,400
as not just as a primary driver of bench offense.

615
00:29:28,480 --> 00:29:30,480
Rather than an off guard who's starting next to the

616
00:29:30,519 --> 00:29:33,759
real because if he's starting next to your real primary playmaker,

617
00:29:34,319 --> 00:29:37,680
then your real primary playmaker needs to be a defensive savonn.

618
00:29:37,440 --> 00:29:39,519
Speaker 2: Right, which is like, well, so now we're talking about

619
00:29:39,519 --> 00:29:42,880
an all NBA player basically, Like you know, I was

620
00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:45,240
just thinking, like, who is he like if this doesn't

621
00:29:45,400 --> 00:29:47,839
if he's not a legal who was he liked?

622
00:29:47,880 --> 00:29:48,400
Speaker 3: Right now?

623
00:29:48,880 --> 00:29:52,319
Speaker 1: Like, is there any guard that's similar? And it's panning out,

624
00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:54,759
I mean to what he's at the points to Maxie.

625
00:29:55,119 --> 00:29:57,799
Speaker 2: You might point to Maxi because as someone that like,

626
00:29:59,000 --> 00:30:02,480
well he's got a be this although but Maxi, yeah, similar,

627
00:30:02,519 --> 00:30:05,079
Like Maxi's lights out off the ball, like all that stuff.

628
00:30:05,119 --> 00:30:07,759
Maxi's just athletically is a little different. The name that

629
00:30:08,079 --> 00:30:11,640
it's like is Eric Gordon, like weirdly a comp for

630
00:30:11,640 --> 00:30:16,240
for George. If if the like first option stuff doesn't

631
00:30:16,279 --> 00:30:18,799
work out, maybe Eric Gordon's a little too good and

632
00:30:18,839 --> 00:30:20,880
he had some real length defensively too.

633
00:30:21,240 --> 00:30:23,640
Speaker 1: Honestly, I think the tires Maxie call out is perfect.

634
00:30:23,799 --> 00:30:26,240
I mean, he's been more efficient on his pull up

635
00:30:26,319 --> 00:30:29,559
jumpers than George this season, but like forty one point

636
00:30:29,599 --> 00:30:32,480
eight percent on pull up twos is not he's hitting.

637
00:30:32,599 --> 00:30:36,319
The difference is he's hitting on five self created three

638
00:30:36,359 --> 00:30:37,400
is a game thirty seven?

639
00:30:38,200 --> 00:30:39,559
Speaker 3: That yeah, And so that's.

640
00:30:39,319 --> 00:30:43,359
Speaker 2: The and and Maxi's not generally regarded as like a

641
00:30:43,400 --> 00:30:46,279
good all and all around defender, but he's like kind

642
00:30:46,319 --> 00:30:49,559
of disruptive in ways that maybe George hasn't quite become yet.

643
00:30:49,599 --> 00:30:52,599
Like that's and George, I don't feel like George has

644
00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:55,799
the same Like I mean, maybe nobody's as fast as

645
00:30:55,839 --> 00:30:57,960
Maxi in the open floor. That's still a thing that

646
00:30:58,000 --> 00:31:01,200
George maybe doesn't quite have. But yeah, it's it. I mean,

647
00:31:01,279 --> 00:31:02,880
so if if if we're saying he's got to be

648
00:31:02,920 --> 00:31:04,799
as good as Tyreus Maxi, that's a pretty high bar.

649
00:31:05,440 --> 00:31:07,200
Speaker 3: I'm not saying he has to be that good.

650
00:31:07,319 --> 00:31:11,279
Speaker 1: I'm just saying there's still concerns there for me.

651
00:31:11,599 --> 00:31:14,119
Speaker 2: I think I echo those. Maybe I'm saying he almost

652
00:31:14,160 --> 00:31:16,559
has to be that good. I'm not trying to drag

653
00:31:16,599 --> 00:31:17,119
you into that.

654
00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:21,240
Speaker 1: And this is your year three, like he might just

655
00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:23,119
he might just get better.

656
00:31:24,240 --> 00:31:28,799
Speaker 2: Sometimes that happens. Sometimes it happens in like year seven.

657
00:31:29,039 --> 00:31:32,039
For gosh, who who are we thinking about the other day? Now?

658
00:31:32,119 --> 00:31:35,519
Speaker 1: Howry marketing might be the m might be your guy.

659
00:31:36,759 --> 00:31:38,079
Are you ready to take us out of here?

660
00:31:38,160 --> 00:31:38,359
Speaker 3: Sir?

661
00:31:38,799 --> 00:31:41,599
Speaker 2: Happy to thanks everybody for listening, for watching. Please remember

662
00:31:41,599 --> 00:31:44,720
to rate, review, and subscribe wherever you're listening. Leave us

663
00:31:44,720 --> 00:31:47,400
some comments on the YouTube video as well. Let us

664
00:31:47,400 --> 00:31:49,960
know what you think the Jazz can or will, or

665
00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:53,680
should or shouldn't you Tricky team a lots of a

666
00:31:53,680 --> 00:31:56,119
lot to think about, especially with the Markin and the

667
00:31:56,160 --> 00:31:57,559
George and the Kessler.

668
00:31:57,200 --> 00:31:58,000
Speaker 3: Of it all, and the.

669
00:31:59,519 --> 00:32:02,119
Speaker 2: Jared Jacks Junior of it all which we've just spoken too. Existence,

670
00:32:02,160 --> 00:32:04,240
Tell your friends, tell your enemies. Join our discord links

671
00:32:04,279 --> 00:32:07,759
for that on YouTube podcast description shouts Frank Latina, apologies

672
00:32:07,839 --> 00:32:08,440
Jared Allen