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Speaker 1: What is up, Fellowsikos, I am Dan Valley coming at

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you with my certifyed Tantabulo's co host, mister Grant Hughes.

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It's time hashtag accountability season. Grant, We've already done our

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Western Conference regrades from the twenty twenty three off season,

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so go check those out. We are onto the Eastern Conference,

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little East East Coast bias now. Finally, as a reminder

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before we throw it to the most important question of

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all our grading system, a C is considered average. We

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are grading teams relative to the resources and the options

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that we believe we're at their disposal. If you're watching

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on YouTube, I'll have the graph of some I'll have

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the meats and potatoes of what we based our grades

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off of. If there's ever anything that did not factor

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into our grit, I will point it out, of course

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if it would happened to after because we do do

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them late in the off season for this reason. But

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if it happens later in the off season after the grades,

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we will of course factor that in. There's really only

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actually for the East, there's really only one team. It's

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the Bucks that you really kind of have to go

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through and rethink about I believe that's it, though, but

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I just want to emphasize that, especially because we're gonna

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be doing our off season grades for twenty twenty four

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very soon. C is not a bad grade. I just

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we get so much shit whenever we give out c's

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and we're grading it as a C is average. With that,

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mister Grant Hughes, how the heck are you doing.

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Speaker 2: I'm just happy to be here to indulge your East

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Coast bias. I don't know if that's actually a real

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thing since we did do the West first, but.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, actually things we said about the Pistons though.

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Speaker 2: Well, I'm just already looking at our grades from last

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year and kind of thinking that there's going to need

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to be some some walking back also, and also, as always,

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I'm almost more interested in trying to piece together what

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our thinking was going into these grades a year ago,

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because it's I don't know, I guess like a really

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responsible person would say, so I don't make the same

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mistakes twice, But for me, it's more just like a

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little mystery hunt of like, what did I think a

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year ago? And why? Because who knows? You know, lots

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changed in the year.

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Speaker 1: There was some discussion on YouTube in our discord as

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well about how we went about grading draft picks, like

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factoring those in do we need like a common line

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of I think the prevailing consensus is that if there's

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more of a decision, it's like the twenty twenty four draft,

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as an example, if Zacharyrisiche turns out to be just

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an absolute monster, the Hawks deserve more credit for taking

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him than the Spurs do Wemby because that was an

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actual decision the Hawks needed to make. Is that the

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lens through which we're trying to to look at things

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just really for my own purses. I don't think I'm

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trying to like off rip looking at this Like there

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might be some instutes where it's, oh, they could have

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went this direction, But I'm just wondering how you want

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to just as a uniform approach, how you and I

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should be interpreting this.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean that's one side of it which does

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make sense, because if it's a no brainer, then like, okay,

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so why are we congratulating you for doing the obvious thing?

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At the same time, if you go too far the

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other way, it's saying it's like unless it's an obvious one,

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like we killed the Lakers for the Hoocha Fino pick

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because like the next three guys were all way better

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than him. But it's like, you really don't want to

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go too far down the road of saying, well, Luke

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who was still on the board, Like are we gonna

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kill every team that didn't pick Yiannis that year?

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Speaker 1: You know, it needs to be relative to like who

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was who was actually being talked about in that position,

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which is also like, let's just say Wenby had turned

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out to be just had one of the worst rookie

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seasons of all time. I guess you couldn't kill the

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Spurs for making that pick because it was considered the pick,

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like there was no other decision to make.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think just unfortunately, what this sounds like we're

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going to land on is kind of a case by

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case basis where you're just weighing a bunch of factors,

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like what was the consensus and what were the other options,

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and how fair is it to say, well, this guy

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that went five picks later would have been way better. Well,

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that only matters if someone actually would have considered him

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five picks before. So it's just I don't know, I

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don't know that we're going to arrive at a bright

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line rule. But there is like a little nuance I

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think that you just sort of have to accept when

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we're talking about draft picks.

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Speaker 1: Especially with all that said, let's get to it. We

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begin with the Atlanta Hawks, because we did these last

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year by division, so we're basically going through this is

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the entire East, but we're going into divisional order of

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which we published them. So the Atlanta Hawks, Grant drafted

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Kobe Buet at number fifteen, and as usual, this is

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what we should have preface. We're not going to read

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the entire graphic. We're just going to go through the

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greatest hits. But they drafted Kobe Buffet at number fifteen.

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I remember loving that pick. He barely played for them.

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They traded John Collins to Utah for Rudy Guay and

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Memphis twenty twenty six second round pick. They also created

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a traded player exception, and after that, like they brought

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back Wesley Matthews and then they signed to Jontay Murray,

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a deal you and I loved at the time and

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still love in a vacuum. Four years, one hundred and

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seventeen million dollar extension player option on the final season.

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You look back at this summer from Atlanta, Grant, how

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are you feeling about it now?

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Speaker 2: I'm just gonna guess that we were as hard on

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the Hawks as we were because this was they ultimately

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did some tax ducking. I don't remember specifically which moves involved.

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I suppose that John Collins won for Rudy Gay and

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a pick was probably a huge part of that, just

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because some of the other like the Jontey Murray deal

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I don't know by itself is like a B or

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a B plus maybe right, we could go even higher.

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And the Buffkin at the time where there was no

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way to know that Buffkin just wasn't going to really

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get a shot, and you certainly liked him. I guess,

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like I bet we also penalized them because the just

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ultimately what they got for John Collins was so much

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worse than what might have been available years earlier.

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Speaker 1: Oh, we hammered it home. We talked about like they

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sat on this too long, and it was this they

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kept marginalizing him further and further, and it was like,

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why is his trade value drive?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's another one where I'm not really sure how.

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That's another one that might need a little bit of nuance,

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you know, like the just the not purposeful, but the

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like the devaluation of your own asset, because you just

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won't pull a trigger on something. You're just hoping that

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you know, his value goes up, or some some sucker

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emerges that just needs John Collins and really will give

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up at first. I guess. I guess like in the end,

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just getting what they got for Collins weighed against what

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his peak value might have been or not peak, but

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like what they could have got realistically at some point

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earlier probably does need to hurt the grade, so we

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we both gave him d pluses. I guess, I don't know.

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I mean the fact that they moved Murray for to

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get a little bit of that pick equity back.

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Speaker 1: I don't know.

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Speaker 2: I'm trying to justify moving that grade up a little bit.

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Speaker 1: No, get out of here.

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Speaker 2: It's hard to get there.

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Speaker 1: There's I think. The one thing I'm willing to overlook

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is I still believe in just Kobe Buffkin as like

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someone who is okay, if you could finish the basket.

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My whole thing is like, well, because you look at

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who was drafted after him, It's like literally like Jim

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Hawk as Brandon Pajemski, like, those are all guys that

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could have helped them. I mean Cam whitmore of course,

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So I'm not going to have her them for that.

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Pick the demerit here for me is I guess you

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could say that Dejonte Murray extension looks better, but knowing

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what it turned into for them, it looks better for

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the Pelicans than it does for Atlanta, just because they

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weren't able to capitalize more on that. The John Collins

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trade to me looks worse because it's tax ducking and

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then grant what did they use that traded player exception?

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Who they use that on?

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Speaker 2: Oh fat lot of nothing?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, like just like we predicted. And so I'll just

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go to a D minus because it's just like this

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was more sort of just running in place bullshit, and

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it's I wasn't even we weren't at maybe you were.

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I wasn't advocating for him to trade de Jonte Murray

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last summer. I don't think you would have gotten any

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more for him last summer anyway than you did now,

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or any more from it to deadline than you did now.

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I just this offseason, it doesn't look much worse. But

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it's like the theory of it, it's even harder to understand,

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in part because Okay, Kobe Bufkin hasn't had an opportunity yet.

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Maybe he gets that with the Jontay Murray gone now.

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But the bigger thing for me is just you kind

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of sold it as like it wasn't a financial reality situation.

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It's like, uh no, that's what fueled the John Collins trade.

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You sat on him for too long, and look at

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how just the rest of this stuff panned out, like

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the even the Patty Mills trade. So I'm going to

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a D minus just because I was disappointing them in

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the moment and one of the things I was clinging

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to was beyond Kobe Bufkin was like, well, maybe they

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do some other stuff, and it's just like they didn't

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with this quote unquote newfound flexibility.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I guess. I guess I'm struggling with the good.

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D plus is a pretty bad grade, and this was

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a pretty bad off season. I'm not sure how much

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worse it looks today.

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Speaker 1: I'll go D then.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, I know, I'm I'm just thinking out loud.

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I guess, like, in the interest of being consistent. I

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can't move this up because the Hawks kind of just

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keep doing all the stuff that we hate so much,

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which is just you're unambitious. You care more about ducking

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the tax than you know, building the best possible team.

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All this stuff. They wait too long to make certain moves.

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They they don't you know, Yeah, I guess I'll just

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move to a D. It seems a little worse because Buffkin.

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I think maybe you know, Buffin didn't do anything to

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suggest that that was the correct pick at fifteen. He's

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got time obviously, but just it looks a little worse

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than it did at the time.

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Speaker 1: Him going right in front of Kante George. Again, Keanta

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George wouldn't have had the same opportunity in Atlanta they

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did not do We bump them up to maybe an

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A because they did not take Jalonhood Shaffino.

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Speaker 2: We should just grade every team on how close they

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came to take a Chaffinoh yeah, let's go. Let's let's

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just drop down to a D. There for me.

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Speaker 1: The next team after Atlanta will be the Charlotte Hornets.

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They did some stuff Grant, Yeah, so I mean big overhaul.

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Michael Jordan sold his share of the team. I don't

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know how we're gonna necessarily grade that, but probably a

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good thing bottom line, based on how poorly his tenure went.

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Brandon Miller at number two looking better and better, Nick

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Smith at twenty seven, trying to see anything else of

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consequence of Miles Bridge just signed the qualifying offer ultimately

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re signed. This past offseason, LaMelo Ball got the max

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five for two five no player options could get up

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to the thirty five percent, but he's not gonna get that.

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Oh thirty, that's a type of thirty percent. I apologize,

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sign Sign.

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Speaker 2: I was laughing at signed Frank Milichino, which is an

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all Caps on the Google doc, and PJ Washington back

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for three and three for forty eight, which he turned out.

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He ended up helping a team, but not necessarily the Hornets.

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So Dan, this is another team we really kind of

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raked over the coals grade wise. How are you feeling

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at a year's remove this time?

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Speaker 1: I think I feel better about it, and I mean,

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like we I don't know if we destroyed them, but

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we were very we hedged. I shouldn't say I don't know.

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I heard us. We hedged on Bred and Miller. We

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were just like it should have been Scoot. Yeah, and no,

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I'm not even there is a world that which Scoot

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ends up being. But like Brandon Miller is right there.

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So I mean like that was a huge miss for collectively.

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That was a huge miss for us. We didn't get

239
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a chance to grade the PJ. Washington contract. That ends

240
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up panning out really well for them because just the

241
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money was always reasonable. But then you flip him in

242
00:11:43,720 --> 00:11:45,960
a trade where you get Grant Williams who helps you

243
00:11:46,399 --> 00:11:48,399
and that twenty twenty seven. I think it's a first

244
00:11:48,440 --> 00:11:50,639
round pick. Isn't there only like top two protection on

245
00:11:50,720 --> 00:11:53,679
it or something? So that ends up being a great

246
00:11:53,759 --> 00:11:56,879
move for them. I would say the Miles Bridges contract,

247
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we said it kind of well, okay, there's the whole

248
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domestic violence issue stuff that was a component of it

249
00:12:01,960 --> 00:12:05,679
for sure, But also now he does his birdwrights were

250
00:12:05,679 --> 00:12:08,679
in transfer, so what is his actual trade value here?

251
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He ends up playing fairly well for them and they

252
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keep him on a deal that I think will be

253
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eminently movable. It's declining in salaries. I would probably call

254
00:12:15,639 --> 00:12:18,679
that like the Miles Bridges outcome. Knowing he's back from

255
00:12:18,679 --> 00:12:21,879
a basketball perspective, that ends up being like an average

256
00:12:21,960 --> 00:12:24,159
or slightly above average move for them, right.

257
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Speaker 2: I suppose, so I do. It's it's probably not fair

258
00:12:27,639 --> 00:12:31,279
to consider it, but I have been asking the question

259
00:12:31,320 --> 00:12:33,279
of who was going to give Miles Bridges more than

260
00:12:33,279 --> 00:12:36,240
he got from Charlotte this offseason? Was it three for

261
00:12:36,279 --> 00:12:39,120
seventy five? Basically, I don't know who was beating that

262
00:12:39,320 --> 00:12:41,919
on the market. But that's a twenty twenty four offseason

263
00:12:41,960 --> 00:12:45,840
great thing. So to get him back, I mean, he's

264
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their third best player if everybody's healthy, right, I mean

265
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maybe second, depending on Brandon Miller. So yeah, I think

266
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that was a good piece of business like that ultimately

267
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for me, just dead wrong on on Brandon Miller being

268
00:13:01,159 --> 00:13:03,919
the incorrect pick over Scoot. I mean, it's just as

269
00:13:03,919 --> 00:13:07,600
it as it stands today. Maybe Scoot's ceiling is higher.

270
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I don't know. It's certainly like I am. I didn't

271
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listen back last year, but I'm sure that a huge

272
00:13:14,000 --> 00:13:16,360
majority of my uh what did I give I was

273
00:13:16,360 --> 00:13:18,519
worse than you. I gave a D minus was just

274
00:13:18,600 --> 00:13:22,360
about like this was this is a this is like

275
00:13:22,480 --> 00:13:25,399
going to set the franchise back for years taking Brandon

276
00:13:25,399 --> 00:13:28,759
Miller at number two. So dead wrong there and didn't

277
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consider the PJA contract.

278
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Speaker 1: I don't know in artifense like that, we were probably

279
00:13:33,639 --> 00:13:35,720
lampooting them, Like how are you not figuring out this

280
00:13:35,840 --> 00:13:39,519
situation so late into the summer. That's if I could

281
00:13:39,600 --> 00:13:42,039
ask you. Though I know I was a supporter on it.

282
00:13:42,120 --> 00:13:44,360
You were fine with it, but now he plays thirty

283
00:13:44,360 --> 00:13:47,240
six games last year? How do you feel about the

284
00:13:47,320 --> 00:13:50,320
lamellow ball? It's a twenty, it's the fun Max, Like,

285
00:13:50,360 --> 00:13:52,120
it's still a Max that starts this year. Are you

286
00:13:52,159 --> 00:13:54,919
feeling better worse? The same about it?

287
00:13:55,200 --> 00:13:56,799
Speaker 2: So as you were talking, I was kind of trying

288
00:13:56,879 --> 00:13:59,720
to like wrangle with that in my head. I think

289
00:14:00,440 --> 00:14:03,240
I think, one, it's just it's just what you do

290
00:14:03,360 --> 00:14:05,240
when you have a player like him. It's still what

291
00:14:05,320 --> 00:14:08,240
teams are doing. See Franz Wagner, Evan Mobley, K Cunningham,

292
00:14:08,240 --> 00:14:11,879
Scottie Barnes, Like this still just happens. We can have

293
00:14:11,879 --> 00:14:14,080
a larger conversation about whether that's the right way to

294
00:14:14,120 --> 00:14:16,519
do things. I'm kind of leaning towards restricted free agency

295
00:14:16,519 --> 00:14:19,200
exists for a reason, you should use it. I do

296
00:14:19,279 --> 00:14:21,679
still think that LaMelo would if you were to trade

297
00:14:21,720 --> 00:14:25,320
LaMelo at this number, you're getting a ton back, right, So,

298
00:14:25,440 --> 00:14:27,759
like just I think the value still there even with

299
00:14:28,279 --> 00:14:31,720
two straight years of a lot of missed time. I

300
00:14:33,399 --> 00:14:36,200
maybe I'm a little lower on it, but not a lot.

301
00:14:36,279 --> 00:14:39,679
I still think I ultimately I just land on you're

302
00:14:39,720 --> 00:14:42,399
not giving up stuff to get off this contract. It's

303
00:14:42,440 --> 00:14:45,080
like nowhere near that level. And he could just come

304
00:14:45,080 --> 00:14:46,639
out and be an All star again like he was

305
00:14:46,720 --> 00:14:49,480
three years ago. And it's this is just, yeah, this

306
00:14:49,600 --> 00:14:51,759
is the going rate for a guy this young, that's

307
00:14:51,799 --> 00:14:52,480
this productive.

308
00:14:53,039 --> 00:14:55,120
Speaker 1: Is it weird that I feel better about it?

309
00:14:55,399 --> 00:14:57,480
Speaker 2: Why have to explain?

310
00:14:57,519 --> 00:15:00,679
Speaker 1: Why? Is so the cap goes up and that's just look,

311
00:15:00,720 --> 00:15:02,120
that makes it look even better. But the bigger thing

312
00:15:02,159 --> 00:15:03,879
for me is so before he gets injured, I know

313
00:15:03,919 --> 00:15:06,480
the actual finishing was still an issue. He was averaging

314
00:15:06,559 --> 00:15:09,120
nineteen drives per thirty six minutes, just by far and

315
00:15:09,159 --> 00:15:11,360
away a career high, getting closer to the basket, more

316
00:15:11,399 --> 00:15:13,720
to the rim more if he's going to get even

317
00:15:13,720 --> 00:15:15,840
if he doesn't get stronger, I just think like having

318
00:15:15,879 --> 00:15:18,440
the ability to get to that third level now for

319
00:15:18,559 --> 00:15:21,279
him makes him a more dynamic score. And you know,

320
00:15:21,320 --> 00:15:23,399
I've always just been higher on the mel than the consensus.

321
00:15:23,399 --> 00:15:25,960
Now the health thing, Okay, he only played in thirty

322
00:15:25,960 --> 00:15:29,799
six games, but like a part of that is like

323
00:15:30,279 --> 00:15:31,919
from stuff that we have heard, is that he just

324
00:15:31,919 --> 00:15:34,039
doesn't trust the medical staff and wasn't the only player.

325
00:15:34,039 --> 00:15:35,600
And guess what, like the Hornets now have a new

326
00:15:35,639 --> 00:15:38,879
medical staff in place. So I look at this and

327
00:15:38,919 --> 00:15:40,879
I realize it's still a gamble, and I think you

328
00:15:40,919 --> 00:15:42,879
could probably if you were looking at it as just

329
00:15:42,919 --> 00:15:46,000
a trade asset, it's worse because all right, there's another

330
00:15:46,120 --> 00:15:48,759
partial season under his belt, so we can say that

331
00:15:48,759 --> 00:15:51,240
ap fine, and that teams would still give up stuff

332
00:15:51,240 --> 00:15:55,320
to get it, but as a trade value proposition, which

333
00:15:55,320 --> 00:15:56,799
I don't think they're looking to use it as if

334
00:15:56,799 --> 00:15:59,360
you were looking to move him. No, he is not

335
00:15:59,440 --> 00:16:01,519
at the peak of value. But as just like a

336
00:16:01,559 --> 00:16:05,039
long term asset. I'm just based off what I saw

337
00:16:05,080 --> 00:16:06,639
last season. I know people have a problem with the

338
00:16:06,679 --> 00:16:09,799
shot selection at points, but just the driving, the getting

339
00:16:09,799 --> 00:16:11,639
more to the basket. I'm like, that's a component of

340
00:16:11,639 --> 00:16:14,240
his game that was not there in the previous three seasons.

341
00:16:14,960 --> 00:16:18,559
Speaker 2: What do you what do you think about the like

342
00:16:18,679 --> 00:16:21,559
off court stuff that has kind of emerged over the

343
00:16:21,639 --> 00:16:23,919
last year plus, where it's not like it's like the

344
00:16:24,039 --> 00:16:27,600
driving stuff like which everyone just is kind of imputed too,

345
00:16:27,639 --> 00:16:31,440
like immaturity or he's like kind of an unserious professional

346
00:16:31,480 --> 00:16:33,480
like that kind of stuff. Is that does knowing a

347
00:16:33,480 --> 00:16:35,720
little more about that stuff even though it's you know,

348
00:16:35,720 --> 00:16:39,480
we're not talking about like crimes or anything like that, Like,

349
00:16:39,879 --> 00:16:43,519
does does that stuff affect you at all? Uh?

350
00:16:43,639 --> 00:16:45,919
Speaker 1: It would a little bit. I do think some of

351
00:16:45,919 --> 00:16:48,559
it's been overblown like that I'm not advocating like trying

352
00:16:48,559 --> 00:16:50,480
to run over children because I just don't think that

353
00:16:50,480 --> 00:16:51,240
that's what he did.

354
00:16:51,320 --> 00:16:55,320
Speaker 2: From what I d does not endorse running down that.

355
00:16:55,279 --> 00:16:57,840
Speaker 1: Situation is being taken like it's not like clearly Walker

356
00:16:57,919 --> 00:17:00,720
Kessler is doing something worse than LaMelo because Utah's hockey

357
00:17:00,759 --> 00:17:03,000
and try to get rid of are So I think

358
00:17:03,000 --> 00:17:06,160
it's it's cause for pause. But like if you're confident

359
00:17:06,519 --> 00:17:08,880
in the culture of your organization, and it really does

360
00:17:08,920 --> 00:17:12,759
seem like Charlotte is hitting different notes on that front now,

361
00:17:12,799 --> 00:17:15,319
and like that could also like the sale was just

362
00:17:15,359 --> 00:17:17,640
like a note like Okay, Michael Jordan's no longer in charge,

363
00:17:17,680 --> 00:17:20,759
but like you have to give Plotkin Schnall credit Jeff

364
00:17:20,799 --> 00:17:24,119
Peterson credit that's again, that's not an off season grade.

365
00:17:24,160 --> 00:17:26,440
It happened in the middle well towards the end of

366
00:17:26,759 --> 00:17:29,680
last year officially, but like what this offseason kind of

367
00:17:29,680 --> 00:17:31,359
forecasts about what they were going to do towards the

368
00:17:31,359 --> 00:17:33,920
trade thenline, it seems even more encouraging, and it feels

369
00:17:33,960 --> 00:17:37,480
like now they have a longer term coach in place

370
00:17:37,519 --> 00:17:39,960
with Charles Lee not part of the grade. I just

371
00:17:40,000 --> 00:17:42,119
with the mellow specifically, if I was a team interested

372
00:17:42,119 --> 00:17:45,400
in trading for him, that stuff isn't really good unless there's,

373
00:17:45,880 --> 00:17:48,359
like we've both heard stuff that like isn't necessarily public,

374
00:17:48,400 --> 00:17:51,160
but unless it's like way worse than all that, it's

375
00:17:51,279 --> 00:17:53,640
just I wouldn't even second guess it.

376
00:17:53,839 --> 00:17:55,839
Speaker 2: So how high are we moving this? I think for

377
00:17:55,960 --> 00:17:58,960
me just just on if we're talking like degree of

378
00:17:58,960 --> 00:18:02,920
difficulty of and rewarding teams for making like the harder

379
00:18:02,920 --> 00:18:05,759
decision taking Miller at two, I'm just gonna move it

380
00:18:05,839 --> 00:18:07,640
up to like a B, which is a huge jump

381
00:18:07,640 --> 00:18:09,519
from a D minus. But that like that was a

382
00:18:09,559 --> 00:18:11,519
hard decision to make and they got it right, And

383
00:18:11,640 --> 00:18:15,640
just more broadly, starting last offseason when some of the

384
00:18:15,839 --> 00:18:19,720
like decision making changed hands, this organization just feels like

385
00:18:19,759 --> 00:18:22,200
it's in going in like a better direction and is

386
00:18:22,599 --> 00:18:25,799
like more well run and so I I mean, you

387
00:18:25,799 --> 00:18:27,440
could talk me into going a little higher, but I

388
00:18:27,440 --> 00:18:29,319
feel pretty good going from a D minus to a B.

389
00:18:30,240 --> 00:18:32,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm gonna go to I'm tempted to go to

390
00:18:32,480 --> 00:18:34,519
an A. I think I'll settle on a B plus

391
00:18:34,559 --> 00:18:37,960
because the LaMelo extension, I guess is technically debate, but

392
00:18:38,000 --> 00:18:40,640
it's like I'm gonna go to an A minus because

393
00:18:40,680 --> 00:18:43,200
what is what did they miss on here? It's like

394
00:18:43,920 --> 00:18:46,440
over like would there have been like did you need

395
00:18:46,480 --> 00:18:48,559
to like if you wait it out the LaMelo situation,

396
00:18:48,640 --> 00:18:51,920
He's just not a level of player like if Franz Wagner,

397
00:18:51,920 --> 00:18:53,480
if the Magic aren't gonna wait him out, like you're

398
00:18:53,519 --> 00:18:55,079
not gonna wait out LaMelo when you're also not a

399
00:18:55,079 --> 00:18:57,680
franchise as the Hornets that can necestially risk him even

400
00:18:57,680 --> 00:18:59,799
getting a restricted free agency. I guess you could look

401
00:18:59,799 --> 00:19:02,240
at the Nick Smith junior pick doesn't really play a

402
00:19:02,319 --> 00:19:04,839
role when we play a role this year, the thing

403
00:19:04,880 --> 00:19:06,440
that like the thing that really drives it home. I

404
00:19:06,440 --> 00:19:08,920
think PJ Washington contract ended up being like real worked

405
00:19:08,920 --> 00:19:11,359
out really well for them, But like you said it.

406
00:19:11,400 --> 00:19:13,920
The degree of difficulty on the Brandon Miller pick is

407
00:19:13,960 --> 00:19:17,640
just that everyone thought it was nearly consensus. Everyone thought

408
00:19:17,640 --> 00:19:22,160
they should take Scoot, and it's it's at the very

409
00:19:22,240 --> 00:19:24,759
least of debate, at most, it's already been settled and

410
00:19:24,799 --> 00:19:28,680
they made the right pick. Yeah, our next team then

411
00:19:29,599 --> 00:19:33,160
would bring us to the We ripped through Miami Heat.

412
00:19:33,480 --> 00:19:34,480
Speaker 2: Oh, this is interesting.

413
00:19:35,240 --> 00:19:39,359
Speaker 1: So they drafted Jim Hawks at number eighteen. Oh this

414
00:19:39,400 --> 00:19:42,480
is the Oh, I let it see. We're already live live,

415
00:19:42,759 --> 00:19:44,759
we already have the Magic up there. I'm like, I

416
00:19:44,759 --> 00:19:47,279
don't think Jed Howard's on the Miami Heat.

417
00:19:47,519 --> 00:19:50,279
Speaker 2: They drafted on the on the Magic either.

418
00:19:50,920 --> 00:19:55,319
Speaker 1: They drafted hawk Is at number eighteen, resigned Kevin Love.

419
00:19:55,559 --> 00:19:57,640
They signed and traded Max Shrews on a four year,

420
00:19:57,720 --> 00:19:59,599
sixty four million dollars deal to the Calves for the

421
00:19:59,680 --> 00:20:03,079
Lakers twenty twenty six second rounder. They traded victor O

422
00:20:03,160 --> 00:20:05,599
Ladipo in second rounders in twenty twenty nine, twenty and

423
00:20:05,599 --> 00:20:08,200
thirty to Oklahoma City. They created a nine point five

424
00:20:08,240 --> 00:20:11,200
million dollar trade exceptions that they signed Josh Richardson, signed

425
00:20:11,200 --> 00:20:14,440
Thomas Bryant, signed Orlando Robinson. That is the meat and

426
00:20:14,480 --> 00:20:17,000
potatoes other offseason. They were also when we recorded this,

427
00:20:17,039 --> 00:20:20,279
Grant heavily linked to Damian Lillard at the time, and

428
00:20:20,319 --> 00:20:22,119
I don't know if you heard, but Damian Lillard did

429
00:20:22,119 --> 00:20:23,960
not go to the to the Miami Heat.

430
00:20:25,039 --> 00:20:27,759
Speaker 2: Man, what do we do with this one? Because basically

431
00:20:27,839 --> 00:20:31,400
we tvd'd this to some extent, but we also gave

432
00:20:31,440 --> 00:20:33,839
them a D minus from you and an F from

433
00:20:33,920 --> 00:20:39,119
me respectively last summer. I guess, so let's start at

434
00:20:39,119 --> 00:20:40,960
the top. The Hawke ass pick, great.

435
00:20:40,720 --> 00:20:42,519
Speaker 1: Pick saved them from an F right like that?

436
00:20:42,799 --> 00:20:42,920
Speaker 2: Right?

437
00:20:42,960 --> 00:20:43,200
Speaker 1: Yeah?

438
00:20:43,240 --> 00:20:46,119
Speaker 2: Like that's that was. It was kind of regarded as,

439
00:20:46,200 --> 00:20:48,200
oh my god, the Heat just how did they get

440
00:20:48,240 --> 00:20:50,279
this guy? And then he kind of delivered on exactly

441
00:20:50,400 --> 00:20:53,200
what he was billed as. It's just a ready to

442
00:20:53,279 --> 00:20:58,359
go like veteran rookie somehow who is just looks like

443
00:20:58,400 --> 00:21:02,359
a rotation guy for the next ten years and maybe more.

444
00:21:02,400 --> 00:21:05,799
I don't know, but man, like it's hard to get

445
00:21:06,039 --> 00:21:10,240
I guess. Maybe the question is like, was it fair

446
00:21:11,039 --> 00:21:16,960
to just kill them for not for the Blazers choosing

447
00:21:17,000 --> 00:21:19,440
not to trade them Damian Lillard like that that, you

448
00:21:19,440 --> 00:21:21,119
know what I mean? Like there's a there's a weird

449
00:21:21,160 --> 00:21:23,359
disconnect there. But the Heat did do a lot of

450
00:21:23,400 --> 00:21:28,279
other stuff letting talent go that seemed like it was

451
00:21:28,319 --> 00:21:30,880
in anticipation of this move that didn't ultimately happen. So

452
00:21:30,880 --> 00:21:33,440
they're kind of responsible or not kind of they are

453
00:21:33,480 --> 00:21:36,920
responsible for putting themselves in that position. I guess maybe

454
00:21:37,000 --> 00:21:38,759
I don't know. Maybe I'm just not feeling as harsh

455
00:21:38,920 --> 00:21:42,160
right now. I mean, it is just is it still

456
00:21:42,200 --> 00:21:44,920
an F? Can it be that bad? Is that where

457
00:21:44,960 --> 00:21:45,200
we are?

458
00:21:45,720 --> 00:21:48,519
Speaker 1: It can't be an F When they got Hake's right.

459
00:21:49,000 --> 00:21:52,519
Speaker 2: You wouldn't think. But it's just weighed against the Damian

460
00:21:52,559 --> 00:21:56,400
Lillard trade that wasn't I g Yeah, I guess maybe

461
00:21:56,400 --> 00:21:58,960
it just can't be a flat failing grade because they

462
00:21:58,960 --> 00:22:01,640
did they did really well on an important part of

463
00:22:01,680 --> 00:22:04,079
team building, and they drafted a guy, you know, two

464
00:22:04,079 --> 00:22:06,480
thirds of the way through the first round who was,

465
00:22:06,559 --> 00:22:09,960
you know, one of their five best players last year probably.

466
00:22:10,039 --> 00:22:13,279
Speaker 1: And I so they ended up did they end up

467
00:22:13,279 --> 00:22:15,400
paying attacks this past year because they were under it

468
00:22:15,400 --> 00:22:17,559
when we were recording. I think I'm looking at saying

469
00:22:17,599 --> 00:22:20,960
they ended up, which I can't even understand why they

470
00:22:20,960 --> 00:22:23,680
would do that. It looks like they were they were

471
00:22:23,680 --> 00:22:25,759
into the attacks, but like eight hundred grand this year,

472
00:22:25,920 --> 00:22:26,839
that can't be right.

473
00:22:26,920 --> 00:22:27,759
Speaker 2: That seems wrong.

474
00:22:28,920 --> 00:22:33,880
Speaker 1: So I look, letting the Max Shreus thing, we even

475
00:22:33,920 --> 00:22:36,039
with the benefit of like, oh look what Duncan Robinson

476
00:22:36,079 --> 00:22:38,000
became like during that kind of NBA Finals run. And

477
00:22:38,000 --> 00:22:39,960
then there's some more pullback on Duncan Robinson as he

478
00:22:40,000 --> 00:22:42,960
banged up at points last year, Like that was just

479
00:22:43,079 --> 00:22:46,079
terrible asset management to me. With the Max Shruce trade,

480
00:22:46,119 --> 00:22:49,519
that's just not enough to And like Josh Richardson was fine,

481
00:22:49,599 --> 00:22:53,000
Orlando Robinson okay, fine, I Kevin Love worked out well

482
00:22:53,000 --> 00:22:56,200
for them. I probably would go go to and so

483
00:22:56,240 --> 00:22:59,240
I guess the the question would be the what opportunities

484
00:22:59,279 --> 00:23:01,960
did they pass on aside from keeping Max Strus.

485
00:23:02,119 --> 00:23:05,599
Speaker 2: Maybe gave Vincent, like although he plays on eleven games

486
00:23:05,640 --> 00:23:07,920
last year, like he you know, he goes to another

487
00:23:07,960 --> 00:23:10,359
team and has heard you could imagine he would have

488
00:23:10,359 --> 00:23:12,920
had the same knee stuff had he stayed in Miami.

489
00:23:13,000 --> 00:23:16,400
So like losing gave Vincent, is that was that a loss?

490
00:23:16,440 --> 00:23:19,000
Like certainly not last year. It wasn't whoever played in

491
00:23:19,039 --> 00:23:22,359
that roster spot was more valuable just by default. The

492
00:23:22,359 --> 00:23:26,720
Strue thing that did just feel like letting talent go. Yeah,

493
00:23:26,759 --> 00:23:29,640
I don't know. I obviously have to move up from an.

494
00:23:29,599 --> 00:23:32,680
Speaker 1: F you seem so sad about.

495
00:23:32,759 --> 00:23:36,240
Speaker 2: Well, this is a really hard one, just just because

496
00:23:36,240 --> 00:23:37,960
the Dame stuff at the time we did this last

497
00:23:38,039 --> 00:23:39,960
year was so fresh and it seemed like such a

498
00:23:39,960 --> 00:23:43,480
potential like catastrophe for a team that, by the way,

499
00:23:43,559 --> 00:23:46,000
is coming off a Finals trip at the time we

500
00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:48,599
were talking about him, and they were way worse last year.

501
00:23:48,680 --> 00:23:49,960
So I just I don't know.

502
00:23:50,440 --> 00:23:53,640
Speaker 1: Let me ask you this, do you think it was

503
00:23:53,680 --> 00:23:56,599
the right call to see? Like, did Damian Lillard sweep

504
00:23:56,599 --> 00:23:59,720
steaks definitely impacted their thinking? I'm sure with how they

505
00:23:59,759 --> 00:24:01,240
went about the Like if you would have told them

506
00:24:01,279 --> 00:24:02,599
at the beginning of the off season, no, you're not

507
00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:06,960
getting Damian Lillard. Is Max Struce still here? I honestly

508
00:24:06,960 --> 00:24:09,480
don't know. But like, if if you missed out on

509
00:24:09,519 --> 00:24:11,759
other opportunities because you were so heavily involved in the

510
00:24:11,839 --> 00:24:15,000
Damian Lillard sweepstakes, do you think it was worth wait,

511
00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:16,960
if you're sitting in like trying to think back in

512
00:24:17,039 --> 00:24:19,279
that moment, you probably just wait on that because he

513
00:24:19,319 --> 00:24:21,319
made so much sense, and so if you missed opportunities

514
00:24:21,359 --> 00:24:23,720
that way, I think I'm probably inclined to go with

515
00:24:23,759 --> 00:24:25,920
like a D plus or C. Like the Hi may

516
00:24:25,920 --> 00:24:28,279
Hawk is picked, we can't over like they drafted someone

517
00:24:28,319 --> 00:24:32,440
outside the lottery. He's just in the rotation immediately and helping.

518
00:24:32,119 --> 00:24:35,279
Speaker 2: Them, and like C minus. Actually that's kind of where

519
00:24:35,319 --> 00:24:38,000
I was leaning, just it's not an average offseason because

520
00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:39,880
you did sort of plan for this big thing that

521
00:24:39,920 --> 00:24:42,519
didn't happen. And me, but like how much did they

522
00:24:42,559 --> 00:24:46,000
really lose like Vincent Struce. Yeah, you'd like to have

523
00:24:46,079 --> 00:24:49,680
those guys back, but ultimately like needle movers really like

524
00:24:49,799 --> 00:24:50,799
not not really.

525
00:24:51,519 --> 00:24:54,559
Speaker 1: You know. The thing I could be critical for them with,

526
00:24:54,759 --> 00:24:58,599
specifically to max Strus, is that they lack when you

527
00:24:58,640 --> 00:25:00,759
go through like this was an is last year too,

528
00:25:00,839 --> 00:25:03,440
Like when you look at their contracts like they're only

529
00:25:03,559 --> 00:25:06,519
built for a mega move. It's just like they don't

530
00:25:06,519 --> 00:25:08,680
have a ton of there's Duncan Robinson. I think he

531
00:25:08,920 --> 00:25:11,839
classifies like, all, right, nineteen point four million now eighteen

532
00:25:11,839 --> 00:25:14,400
point two million last year. That's kind of like a

533
00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:17,160
mid end contract. But it's just you know, Terry Rozier now,

534
00:25:17,160 --> 00:25:20,079
but Tyler Hero at twenty five plus, I'm thirty plus

535
00:25:20,079 --> 00:25:21,759
for BAM out of bio and like Jimmy's making a

536
00:25:21,759 --> 00:25:24,240
ton of money and then it's everyone's just oh, Kevin

537
00:25:24,279 --> 00:25:26,559
Love on basically the minimum or Hamy Hawk is on

538
00:25:26,599 --> 00:25:30,200
his rookie scale. They just don't have conventional salary matching

539
00:25:30,240 --> 00:25:33,640
tools and like Max Shrews could have been like that

540
00:25:33,799 --> 00:25:34,519
type of tool.

541
00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:37,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's fair. I think that justifies a below.

542
00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:40,000
Speaker 1: We're gonna we're in agreement with a.

543
00:25:40,200 --> 00:25:42,440
Speaker 2: I guess a C minus minus sounds good to me.

544
00:25:42,960 --> 00:25:44,960
I don't know what that means.

545
00:25:45,759 --> 00:25:46,880
Speaker 1: So, oh you heard Siri?

546
00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:49,000
Speaker 2: Apologies, it did series weighing in.

547
00:25:49,559 --> 00:25:51,640
Speaker 1: So we're bumping the Miami Heat up to a C

548
00:25:51,839 --> 00:25:54,240
minas and do we have anything else on them? Or

549
00:25:54,279 --> 00:25:56,160
is it time to actually go onto the Urlino magic.

550
00:25:56,359 --> 00:25:59,079
Speaker 2: Let's hit the magic. So a couple of lottery picks

551
00:25:59,119 --> 00:26:03,440
Anthony Blacketts, Jed Howard eleven traded number thirty six, Andre

552
00:26:03,519 --> 00:26:05,960
Jackson Junior, who I'm kind of a fan of, to

553
00:26:06,039 --> 00:26:08,960
the bucks for cash in a twenty thirty second Joe

554
00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:11,119
Engles two years twenty two. Not on the team anymore?

555
00:26:11,839 --> 00:26:14,119
What was it was a team option? They declined Mo

556
00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:18,039
Wagner not like just there because of whose brother is

557
00:26:18,119 --> 00:26:19,920
actually has played like good bits for him.

558
00:26:20,240 --> 00:26:23,319
Speaker 1: I was just we just did the Orlando Magic look ahead.

559
00:26:23,319 --> 00:26:24,880
I don't know when it's going up people, but there's

560
00:26:24,920 --> 00:26:27,319
little people on the curtains, And I was somehow mo

561
00:26:27,440 --> 00:26:29,920
Vogner is like once every third game does something that

562
00:26:29,960 --> 00:26:32,759
makes you think that, how is this not a superstar?

563
00:26:32,960 --> 00:26:37,240
Like this isn't like he just does something every third

564
00:26:37,279 --> 00:26:38,799
game that feels that way.

565
00:26:38,759 --> 00:26:42,559
Speaker 2: And then every fourth game he like tries to incite

566
00:26:42,640 --> 00:26:44,480
violence by irritating the opponent.

567
00:26:44,599 --> 00:26:47,759
Speaker 1: Somehow, I feel like that's like every game.

568
00:26:47,960 --> 00:26:51,119
Speaker 2: Maybe yeah, he didn't he go he basically went into

569
00:26:51,119 --> 00:26:53,240
Detroit's bench. Was that two years ago and just was

570
00:26:53,240 --> 00:26:57,039
throwing haymakers? You remember that. That was amazing. So we

571
00:26:57,079 --> 00:27:00,640
give him an a right for inciting violence? Wave bulbull.

572
00:27:00,680 --> 00:27:02,799
That's the last thing we'll say. Okay, so we I'm

573
00:27:02,839 --> 00:27:05,279
curious what we thought about this. Where's Orlando alphabet?

574
00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:08,599
Speaker 1: This was like we were we actually differed pretty much.

575
00:27:08,640 --> 00:27:10,640
I gave him a C. You gave him a D plus.

576
00:27:11,079 --> 00:27:14,200
I think sort of in retrospect, if you want to

577
00:27:14,240 --> 00:27:16,599
stick with a D plus, you just kind of have

578
00:27:16,680 --> 00:27:18,599
to harp on, Okay, like should they have been like

579
00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:21,119
what opportunities did they put because everything else they did

580
00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:22,440
was just kind unless you're that I mean you were

581
00:27:22,440 --> 00:27:27,839
pretty Andre Jackson apparently, but jonath know, everything else feels

582
00:27:28,240 --> 00:27:31,279
wildly non controversial. But also it's okay anti blocks in

583
00:27:31,279 --> 00:27:33,440
the rotation, but not really playing a ton of minutes

584
00:27:33,759 --> 00:27:36,880
last year and in fury is not what they needed.

585
00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:39,200
Like there's probably he has room to do more on offense,

586
00:27:39,240 --> 00:27:40,680
and he did hit his threes, but he took a

587
00:27:40,720 --> 00:27:43,880
negligible amount of them. Jet Howard again in theory, exactly

588
00:27:43,920 --> 00:27:46,200
what they need, didn't play really last year, spends the

589
00:27:46,319 --> 00:27:48,920
entire season in asciola, So I don't know how to

590
00:27:48,960 --> 00:27:51,519
square that away. I like them O Wagner move. The

591
00:27:51,599 --> 00:27:53,640
Joe Ingles move wound up making a ton of sense

592
00:27:53,680 --> 00:27:56,920
because you were using him to run your offense for stretches.

593
00:27:57,519 --> 00:27:59,880
But this is just like I don't want this pass

594
00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:02,680
off season to let it infect my perception of last

595
00:28:02,680 --> 00:28:05,279
off season, but it's at some point take a fucking

596
00:28:05,319 --> 00:28:07,640
bigger swing than this, Orlando. I'm willing to give them

597
00:28:07,640 --> 00:28:09,960
more of a pass last year. Though. The final thing

598
00:28:09,960 --> 00:28:12,519
I'll say, boy throw do is because they didn't. It

599
00:28:12,559 --> 00:28:15,960
was kind of the let's get more information stage and

600
00:28:16,000 --> 00:28:17,640
now it's like, Okay, you've been to the playoffs, we

601
00:28:17,799 --> 00:28:19,759
lost exactly how we all knew that you were going

602
00:28:19,799 --> 00:28:23,799
to lost in Cleveland. So I don't know, Like I

603
00:28:23,839 --> 00:28:25,400
still don't know what I'm gonna do with this grade,

604
00:28:25,480 --> 00:28:28,160
but I like, I don't do you look at this

605
00:28:28,200 --> 00:28:31,079
off season and say, oh, it's still a d off.

606
00:28:30,839 --> 00:28:35,279
Speaker 2: Season kinda uh, the only thing that gives me that's

607
00:28:35,319 --> 00:28:37,400
making me reconsider a little bit. And this is kind

608
00:28:37,400 --> 00:28:40,960
of a broader question. I'm curious about your take on it. Obviously,

609
00:28:41,119 --> 00:28:44,920
Orlando had a hugely successful season last year and got

610
00:28:44,920 --> 00:28:48,839
a lot better. So do they deserve any credit for

611
00:28:49,559 --> 00:28:52,440
kind of letting things marinate for the most part and

612
00:28:52,480 --> 00:28:55,200
not you know what I mean, Like, clearly they believed

613
00:28:55,200 --> 00:28:57,200
in the talent they had because they didn't swing a

614
00:28:57,240 --> 00:28:59,799
big deal. They took a couple guys that like, yeah,

615
00:28:59,799 --> 00:29:01,720
they might help, but you know they could have packaged

616
00:29:01,720 --> 00:29:04,680
those two picks to move up or what or whatever.

617
00:29:05,079 --> 00:29:07,599
They didn't take a big swing, and like the results

618
00:29:07,599 --> 00:29:10,079
were I don't know what. You know, if you pulled

619
00:29:10,079 --> 00:29:12,160
magic fans and said, like, what would you be happy

620
00:29:12,200 --> 00:29:15,200
with ahead of last season? Like ninety five percent of

621
00:29:15,200 --> 00:29:17,960
them would have been pretty like satisfied with where the

622
00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:21,480
Magic ended up. So I don't know it, Like just

623
00:29:21,640 --> 00:29:23,880
if you go down the list of transactions, like nothing

624
00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:26,759
is wowing you, and they all look other than the

625
00:29:26,839 --> 00:29:31,319
maybe the Wagner like sixteen million dollar deal don't look

626
00:29:31,359 --> 00:29:33,799
any better now, Like the Black pick looks worse. I

627
00:29:33,799 --> 00:29:36,920
would say the Jet Howard pick looks worse than it did,

628
00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:39,079
although a lot of people didn't like that at the time.

629
00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:41,720
But the bottom line was the Magic got way better,

630
00:29:42,440 --> 00:29:45,880
and so maybe maybe that means they should grade out

631
00:29:45,920 --> 00:29:49,079
slightly higher. But I think if we kind of if

632
00:29:49,079 --> 00:29:51,799
we use that logic more often, we'll just give better

633
00:29:51,839 --> 00:29:54,440
grades to teams that won more games, like regardless of

634
00:29:54,440 --> 00:29:56,039
what they did in the offseason. I don't know if

635
00:29:56,039 --> 00:29:57,160
that's where we want.

636
00:29:57,079 --> 00:29:58,880
Speaker 1: To just I guess what I struggle with when you

637
00:29:58,880 --> 00:30:01,039
look at Black and Howard's Like, let's say I they

638
00:30:01,079 --> 00:30:02,599
would have went with Grady Dick, which is who I

639
00:30:02,599 --> 00:30:04,200
would have picked if I were them, and I still

640
00:30:04,200 --> 00:30:06,720
think that would have been the right pick. They clearly weren't.

641
00:30:06,960 --> 00:30:08,759
I mean, especially with the way Grady Dick started the

642
00:30:08,759 --> 00:30:11,920
season in Toronto, would they have played him more. And

643
00:30:11,960 --> 00:30:14,119
so it seems like this plan because looking at just

644
00:30:14,119 --> 00:30:17,160
the way they used Anthony Black too, was you already

645
00:30:17,200 --> 00:30:18,880
laid it out and so it doesn't matter like they

646
00:30:18,880 --> 00:30:20,359
could have picked and I think it's unfair to go

647
00:30:20,400 --> 00:30:23,319
this route because they were drafted so far out far back,

648
00:30:23,359 --> 00:30:26,160
but they could have taken Jaimehawks or Brandon Perjeenski, and

649
00:30:26,240 --> 00:30:28,920
like those guys probably still wouldn't have played for them.

650
00:30:29,119 --> 00:30:31,920
It seems like so I feel like I might stick

651
00:30:31,960 --> 00:30:34,160
with a C because my impressions haven't changed at all.

652
00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:36,240
I'm very anti Black is going to be a fantastic

653
00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:39,559
defender and he has the ability to guard wings. I actually,

654
00:30:39,799 --> 00:30:41,759
for when I was doing a redraft, I looked into

655
00:30:41,799 --> 00:30:43,720
a lot of what Jet Howard was doing in Asciola

656
00:30:44,240 --> 00:30:47,839
spoiler and I don't typically watch magic G League games apologize,

657
00:30:48,119 --> 00:30:50,079
but like I could see a lot of the stuff

658
00:30:50,119 --> 00:30:54,720
he's doing translating to like the actual magic. I just

659
00:30:54,799 --> 00:30:57,400
wonder if are they too married to this idea of

660
00:30:58,000 --> 00:30:59,920
everybody on the court needs to be like a really

661
00:31:00,160 --> 00:31:02,720
defender and it's almost like Da've doubled down on that

662
00:31:02,799 --> 00:31:05,720
with KACP and it's at some point the value as

663
00:31:05,720 --> 00:31:08,440
you're able to insulate literally anyone else you want to

664
00:31:08,480 --> 00:31:10,960
pop into those those lineups. So I think I'm gonna

665
00:31:10,960 --> 00:31:13,240
stick with the seed because I don't know that I feel, yeah,

666
00:31:13,240 --> 00:31:14,599
what I'd liked to have seen them now that we

667
00:31:14,599 --> 00:31:17,079
have the benefit of hindsight. It's so at number six,

668
00:31:17,480 --> 00:31:20,000
specifically what should have been the pick? Then if you

669
00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:22,960
don't like the black pick, that's the problem.

670
00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:25,720
Speaker 2: So I'm moving to a C minus because I think

671
00:31:25,880 --> 00:31:27,920
if I were to stay at a D plus or

672
00:31:28,000 --> 00:31:31,079
move down, it would be basing it way too much

673
00:31:31,240 --> 00:31:34,839
on just frankly, what's not enough information still on those

674
00:31:34,839 --> 00:31:37,000
two picks, and I don't have the obvious guy that

675
00:31:37,039 --> 00:31:39,640
would have been the correct pick. Trade up, trade down

676
00:31:39,680 --> 00:31:42,000
like those are, those are all in play. I'm ultimately

677
00:31:42,039 --> 00:31:44,640
just giving them more credit for trusting in what they had,

678
00:31:44,680 --> 00:31:46,559
which looks like the right decision.

679
00:31:47,440 --> 00:31:49,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm I can't wait to see what your thoughts

680
00:31:49,480 --> 00:31:52,519
are going to be about this past offseason for them,

681
00:31:52,799 --> 00:31:57,559
me too. Next up on our regrade train is the

682
00:31:57,799 --> 00:31:59,960
Washington Wizards, who just did a whole bunch of shit

683
00:32:00,400 --> 00:32:04,680
started firing up that rebuilding machine. They fired Tommy Sheppard,

684
00:32:04,680 --> 00:32:08,559
then hired Michael Winger as president of Monumental Basketball, so

685
00:32:08,599 --> 00:32:10,519
that includes the Mystics as well as the Wizards, and

686
00:32:10,519 --> 00:32:12,920
then they hired Will Dawkins as a general manager. They

687
00:32:12,960 --> 00:32:15,880
traded number nine, which was Jars Walker and Sacramento's twenty

688
00:32:15,880 --> 00:32:19,200
thirty second rounder, to Indiana for number eight Blah Coolibali.

689
00:32:19,799 --> 00:32:22,839
They traded Bradley Beal, Jordan Goodwin, and Isaiah Todd to

690
00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:26,119
the Sons for Chris Paul, Landry Shammett, four first round swaps,

691
00:32:26,359 --> 00:32:29,039
four seconds, and cash. They then traded Chris Paul to

692
00:32:29,119 --> 00:32:32,799
the Dubs for Jordan Poole, a twenty twenty seven second

693
00:32:32,880 --> 00:32:35,720
and then a top twenty protected twenty thirty first round

694
00:32:35,720 --> 00:32:38,400
pick that does not spill over like that thing is

695
00:32:38,440 --> 00:32:39,920
because of when it was traded like it just if

696
00:32:39,920 --> 00:32:42,440
it doesn't convey it's turns into a second. I believe

697
00:32:43,079 --> 00:32:45,680
they traded number fifty seven, Trace Jackson Davis to the

698
00:32:45,759 --> 00:32:49,359
Dubs for cash, cash considerations for Trace Jackson Davis. I'm

699
00:32:49,359 --> 00:32:51,599
interested to see how Grant feels about that. They traded

700
00:32:51,680 --> 00:32:54,559
Chris Tops to the Celtics. It was a multi team deal.

701
00:32:54,640 --> 00:32:58,440
It landed the Wizards, Danilo Gallinari, Mike Muscala, number thirty five,

702
00:32:58,519 --> 00:33:01,160
Julian Phillips and Tias Jones. They also created a twelve

703
00:33:01,160 --> 00:33:03,640
point four million dollar trade exception at the time. They

704
00:33:03,640 --> 00:33:06,359
then traded Julian Phillips to the Bulls for seconds. In

705
00:33:06,400 --> 00:33:09,400
twenty twenty six and twenty twenty seven, in what was

706
00:33:09,400 --> 00:33:12,799
one of the more unexplicable moves by Chicago, they signed

707
00:33:12,880 --> 00:33:15,559
Jared Butler and Geno Mauri do had two A deals.

708
00:33:16,000 --> 00:33:18,240
They signed Kyle Kuzman to a four year, ninety million

709
00:33:18,279 --> 00:33:22,240
dollar contract with no player options and it declines in salary.

710
00:33:22,440 --> 00:33:26,680
And they also acquired Monte Morris from Detroit for basically

711
00:33:26,720 --> 00:33:29,359
a twenty twenty seven second rounder, or they traded Monte

712
00:33:29,440 --> 00:33:31,359
Morris to Detroit excuse me, for a twenty twenty seven

713
00:33:31,400 --> 00:33:35,599
second rounder. Grant we were I think the word is

714
00:33:35,599 --> 00:33:38,720
elated that the Wizards ended a rebuild finally with felt

715
00:33:38,720 --> 00:33:41,440
like a long overdue rebuild. I gave them a B plus.

716
00:33:41,480 --> 00:33:43,759
You gave them a B minus. How do you feel

717
00:33:44,119 --> 00:33:46,640
about what they did looking back?

718
00:33:46,960 --> 00:33:51,039
Speaker 2: I gave him an A minus. I think broad strokes

719
00:33:51,920 --> 00:33:55,079
still we would agree. They ripped the band aid off,

720
00:33:55,079 --> 00:33:58,839
they traded Bill. They they're reorienting, They're finally they're not

721
00:33:59,039 --> 00:34:01,920
they're not chasing them all that stuff. I think that

722
00:34:02,079 --> 00:34:03,880
still means their grade is going to be high. There

723
00:34:03,880 --> 00:34:06,119
were just like hits and misses on the way. Right.

724
00:34:06,160 --> 00:34:08,519
They got what they could for bel which was just

725
00:34:08,559 --> 00:34:11,679
like to get anything for him because that you know,

726
00:34:11,719 --> 00:34:15,960
the no trade clause. The durability like just moving off

727
00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:20,320
of that was if they did nothing else great, like

728
00:34:20,360 --> 00:34:22,280
that's that was. That was the move that had to

729
00:34:22,320 --> 00:34:25,760
happen for Washington to like eventually become like a functional

730
00:34:25,840 --> 00:34:29,800
franchise again. So that's the biggest Like, that's that's on

731
00:34:29,840 --> 00:34:33,599
the marquee. The get taking back Jordan Poole, which looks

732
00:34:33,639 --> 00:34:36,360
like a terrible contract now for like not a whole lot.

733
00:34:36,800 --> 00:34:38,840
That pick I think is kind of it's like a fake.

734
00:34:39,079 --> 00:34:43,239
It's like the fakest of fake first round picks. The

735
00:34:43,280 --> 00:34:47,519
Porzingis trade, I guess, like clearly the leverage of his

736
00:34:47,599 --> 00:34:50,760
player option though, yeah, that's what I mean. It's hard

737
00:34:50,760 --> 00:34:52,559
to it's like, oh my god, like he mattered so

738
00:34:52,639 --> 00:34:54,599
much for the team that won the title, Like how

739
00:34:54,599 --> 00:34:56,840
did how is this all you got? It's not I

740
00:34:56,880 --> 00:34:59,480
don't know which way to go with that. The Kusma deal,

741
00:34:59,559 --> 00:35:02,719
I guess maybe still looks fine the declining salary, but

742
00:35:02,800 --> 00:35:06,079
like they did not trade him for future assets, so

743
00:35:06,280 --> 00:35:08,639
but that could still happen. I think we would agree

744
00:35:08,719 --> 00:35:11,360
the cool getting cool Bali is better than getting Jaris

745
00:35:11,400 --> 00:35:14,559
Walker based on last year. So I don't really see

746
00:35:15,119 --> 00:35:17,000
even though there are some like the Jordan Poole thing

747
00:35:17,039 --> 00:35:19,519
is one that's giving me like some real hesitation, but

748
00:35:19,599 --> 00:35:22,599
I still just overall, the Wizards did what they were

749
00:35:22,679 --> 00:35:24,639
supposed to do, so I'm just gonna leave it as

750
00:35:24,679 --> 00:35:25,400
an A.

751
00:35:25,880 --> 00:35:27,519
Speaker 1: I think I'm with you leaving with a B plus

752
00:35:27,559 --> 00:35:30,199
because I probably feel better about what the front office

753
00:35:30,199 --> 00:35:35,039
looks like. And it's weird. So Danny Avia trade. We

754
00:35:35,079 --> 00:35:37,360
both love Denni Afdia, and part of me wondered, like

755
00:35:38,239 --> 00:35:40,800
are you and I understand this is a regrade of

756
00:35:40,840 --> 00:35:42,800
the twenty three offseason, but this front office in place,

757
00:35:42,840 --> 00:35:44,719
like our impressions of them, like they're the ones making

758
00:35:44,760 --> 00:35:46,880
that move. The fact that they took a twenty twenty

759
00:35:46,960 --> 00:35:49,480
nine first back is primary compensation. I know they got

760
00:35:49,599 --> 00:35:52,639
number fourteen and got pub Carrington, but like that was

761
00:35:52,639 --> 00:35:55,000
in a draft or like no one really wanted, Like

762
00:35:55,360 --> 00:35:57,840
Portland was a team that's bad and traded a lottery,

763
00:35:57,920 --> 00:36:01,239
like you just don't see that happen. So the fact

764
00:36:01,239 --> 00:36:04,119
that they took as a primary form of compensation such

765
00:36:04,119 --> 00:36:06,719
a distant first rounder made me think, Okay, yeah, ten

766
00:36:06,760 --> 00:36:08,880
Leonsis could still come in and fuck this up for them,

767
00:36:09,159 --> 00:36:11,599
but they're gonna have the stomach to really think in

768
00:36:11,679 --> 00:36:14,440
broad strokes, in big picture terms, So I feel better

769
00:36:14,440 --> 00:36:15,760
about that. But then I'm also I look at the

770
00:36:15,840 --> 00:36:17,400
roster now this is all about the front office, and

771
00:36:17,400 --> 00:36:20,199
I'm like, why so many veterans? Yes, type deal, So

772
00:36:20,679 --> 00:36:22,920
I'm gonna stick with a B. Plus I'm with you

773
00:36:22,960 --> 00:36:25,639
like the I mean, the one that could really come back,

774
00:36:25,679 --> 00:36:27,360
but it's just so hard to know at the time.

775
00:36:27,920 --> 00:36:30,880
Giving like Trace Jackson Davis could have helped them. Slash

776
00:36:30,920 --> 00:36:32,480
would help them right, like he could play next to

777
00:36:32,679 --> 00:36:35,360
Alex Aar right now, rather than having Yanna Shallen shoot

778
00:36:35,360 --> 00:36:37,239
it still to give up that pick for cash. But

779
00:36:37,280 --> 00:36:39,119
we've also done this before where we fall in love

780
00:36:39,159 --> 00:36:40,920
with a late second round pick after one year and

781
00:36:40,920 --> 00:36:44,760
they kind of fade from existence. So I mean, the

782
00:36:44,800 --> 00:36:46,519
direction is a big one, but like just some of

783
00:36:46,559 --> 00:36:48,440
the stuff on the margins, like I mentioned the Julian

784
00:36:48,480 --> 00:36:51,840
Phillips thing did nothing for Chicago, and yet the Washington

785
00:36:51,840 --> 00:36:54,639
got two seconds out of him. So just I thought

786
00:36:54,639 --> 00:36:56,960
they had a good offseason. I guess I'm higher on

787
00:36:56,960 --> 00:36:59,400
the Kyle Kuzma contract than you. I think if they

788
00:36:59,440 --> 00:37:01,840
wanted to move it, like I'm assuming they would get

789
00:37:01,840 --> 00:37:05,119
like at least one good first round like not a

790
00:37:05,159 --> 00:37:07,440
top twenty protected first round pick type deal.

791
00:37:07,599 --> 00:37:09,559
Speaker 2: You'd hope so, And I mean that's the thing is

792
00:37:09,599 --> 00:37:11,960
they've got quite a bit of runway to still do that,

793
00:37:12,079 --> 00:37:14,599
which which, like you know, again, is maybe a reason

794
00:37:14,639 --> 00:37:17,360
to view that contract a little more favorably. Yeah, I

795
00:37:17,360 --> 00:37:19,880
don't know if we're gonna be consistent at all, and

796
00:37:19,880 --> 00:37:22,239
we're just gonna kill these teams for not you know,

797
00:37:22,280 --> 00:37:25,320
pulling the ripcord. We gotta just we gotta reward the

798
00:37:25,360 --> 00:37:26,440
ones that do it right.

799
00:37:26,480 --> 00:37:28,400
Speaker 1: And it's also they stuck with it, and it's we

800
00:37:28,480 --> 00:37:31,159
tend to I think collectively, not necessarily saying you and I,

801
00:37:31,199 --> 00:37:33,400
although I'm sure I do it. At times, we probably

802
00:37:33,440 --> 00:37:36,320
over romanticized teardowns because it feels like they're easier to

803
00:37:36,360 --> 00:37:39,880
complete than the than the assent. But like a year later,

804
00:37:40,079 --> 00:37:43,280
I don't feel any worse about. If anything, I feel

805
00:37:43,280 --> 00:37:46,280
better about the Wizard's direction, even though I haven't agreed

806
00:37:46,679 --> 00:37:49,280
in full with everything, and that that takes subject is

807
00:37:49,320 --> 00:37:51,840
subject to self destruct if they don't give black Ulabali

808
00:37:51,960 --> 00:37:54,400
like a double usage rate compared to his rook the season.

809
00:37:55,480 --> 00:37:58,679
Speaker 2: All right, Boston Celtics, this is gonna be h for

810
00:37:58,760 --> 00:38:00,360
one of us a little harder than the other.

811
00:38:00,920 --> 00:38:04,280
Speaker 1: Oh man, can we skip this team? Please?

812
00:38:04,679 --> 00:38:07,480
Speaker 2: No? This is I mean, well, I don't know how

813
00:38:07,519 --> 00:38:10,599
long this needs to go. Uh So traded Marcus smart

814
00:38:10,639 --> 00:38:13,559
Gallo Mike Mscala thirty five, which was Julian Phillips for

815
00:38:13,679 --> 00:38:16,960
Porzingis to number twenty seven, which is Marcus Sasser Golden

816
00:38:16,960 --> 00:38:19,480
States twenty twenty four first with top four protection. Sasser

817
00:38:19,559 --> 00:38:24,719
then goes basically to becomes James Nauji in two seconds

818
00:38:24,760 --> 00:38:28,320
more or less? Do I have that right? Not? Not

819
00:38:28,440 --> 00:38:30,360
super important here? Oh and then James Naje. I forgot

820
00:38:30,400 --> 00:38:32,599
about all this and they just kept just moving down.

821
00:38:32,679 --> 00:38:35,519
James Naji becomes Jordan Walsh and Dallas is twenty four

822
00:38:35,559 --> 00:38:39,920
second signing trader Grant Williams to Dallas. What did they

823
00:38:39,960 --> 00:38:40,800
get back out of that?

824
00:38:41,000 --> 00:38:41,800
Speaker 1: Dallas second?

825
00:38:42,199 --> 00:38:44,679
Speaker 2: Yeah? Two seconds one from San Antonio one from Dallas

826
00:38:44,840 --> 00:38:47,039
got a trade exception out of it, signed O shaper

827
00:38:47,079 --> 00:38:51,119
Sett and don o'banton, both guys I like, uh, neither

828
00:38:51,159 --> 00:38:51,760
of like.

829
00:38:51,840 --> 00:38:54,079
Speaker 1: Benton too, so yeah, uh.

830
00:38:54,280 --> 00:38:56,599
Speaker 2: Jalen Brown got the five year, two eighty eight no

831
00:38:56,679 --> 00:38:59,800
player options. What we did not have at the time,

832
00:39:00,280 --> 00:39:04,119
which will be you know, seems relevant. They traded Malcolm

833
00:39:04,199 --> 00:39:06,480
Brogden Robert Williams the third of twenty four first which

834
00:39:06,480 --> 00:39:10,280
we came bu bub Carrington rerouted to Washington via Portland

835
00:39:10,840 --> 00:39:14,280
in the twenty twenty nine first for one Drew Holiday.

836
00:39:14,639 --> 00:39:16,559
Speaker 1: I feel like I should just grab the talking stick

837
00:39:16,599 --> 00:39:17,559
for this one. So I gave them.

838
00:39:17,559 --> 00:39:20,280
Speaker 2: I mean, I didn't love the offseason. I just liked

839
00:39:20,320 --> 00:39:22,199
it a little more than you, So go ahead.

840
00:39:22,519 --> 00:39:25,280
Speaker 1: I So, I want to make it clear. We said

841
00:39:25,280 --> 00:39:26,719
this after the fact when we talked about the new

842
00:39:26,760 --> 00:39:29,519
Holiday trade. We felt a lot better about Boston after

843
00:39:29,559 --> 00:39:31,280
that trade. But if you go back to the Boston

844
00:39:31,320 --> 00:39:33,800
Celtics look ahead that I did, I still was harping

845
00:39:33,800 --> 00:39:35,800
on the concerns of it still feels like they might

846
00:39:35,800 --> 00:39:38,639
be at a playmaking deficit. What if christophs Porzingis just

847
00:39:38,679 --> 00:39:42,440
doesn't stay healthy and it just like it's an A

848
00:39:42,800 --> 00:39:45,679
and it was just what is the argument? What did

849
00:39:45,760 --> 00:39:48,760
they do wrong this offseason? I just I guess it

850
00:39:48,760 --> 00:39:50,400
has to be in a plus they won the title

851
00:39:50,440 --> 00:39:53,559
and two of the guys that they acquired last offseason,

852
00:39:53,599 --> 00:39:56,639
and in hindsight, the christophs porzingis trade, even knowing that

853
00:39:56,679 --> 00:39:58,719
he's about to miss a bunch of time to start

854
00:39:58,760 --> 00:40:01,880
this coming season, it's a home run because the opportunity

855
00:40:01,920 --> 00:40:05,119
cost was so low. It did not as some people speculated,

856
00:40:05,159 --> 00:40:08,639
like prevent you from extending Derek White or get into like, oh,

857
00:40:08,719 --> 00:40:10,400
do we need to break up the J's when Jalen

858
00:40:10,400 --> 00:40:13,320
Brown's extension is gonna kick in. That stuff hasn't happened.

859
00:40:13,440 --> 00:40:15,639
What like when you look at this offseason, what is

860
00:40:15,679 --> 00:40:19,519
there to feel like if you're really high on Marcus Sasser, Okay, sure,

861
00:40:19,960 --> 00:40:21,960
but like he's not a backup point guard. He's more

862
00:40:21,960 --> 00:40:23,840
of kind of an off guard who can shoot. And

863
00:40:23,920 --> 00:40:27,480
so I just I missed on this. They I think

864
00:40:27,559 --> 00:40:31,679
you could still argue that they clearly have like, Okay,

865
00:40:31,719 --> 00:40:35,000
there's some playmaking concerns, but like they're also just having

866
00:40:35,039 --> 00:40:38,960
a bunch of above average playmakers for their position rather

867
00:40:39,000 --> 00:40:41,360
than a true floor general, like, oh hey, it fucking

868
00:40:41,440 --> 00:40:44,480
works because you have four guys in your starting lineup

869
00:40:44,519 --> 00:40:46,280
that can do it, maybe three and a half depending

870
00:40:46,320 --> 00:40:48,519
on how you view Jalen Brown, like between Tatum and

871
00:40:48,599 --> 00:40:51,280
White and Drew Holliday. So we have to bump this

872
00:40:51,360 --> 00:40:52,760
up to an A plus. I don't know what there

873
00:40:52,800 --> 00:40:55,920
is to just dislike we were concerned about, Oh, get

874
00:40:56,400 --> 00:40:58,440
getting rid of Grant Williams makes sense when you have

875
00:40:58,480 --> 00:41:01,519
this injury. Pron christops Forzingis and Horford's like ninety No

876
00:41:01,599 --> 00:41:04,400
it didn't. So shout out to the Boston Celtics. I was,

877
00:41:05,159 --> 00:41:07,239
this is probably one of my bigger misses just because no,

878
00:41:07,360 --> 00:41:09,880
I gave them like an average grade basically, but they

879
00:41:09,960 --> 00:41:12,159
just and I've said this to you a bunch of

880
00:41:12,159 --> 00:41:15,440
times now, they went. Everyone including myself, was like kind

881
00:41:15,440 --> 00:41:17,440
of worried about them or looking for reasons not to

882
00:41:17,480 --> 00:41:18,840
believe in them. And I think we're just going to

883
00:41:18,920 --> 00:41:22,239
look back as like that is collectively a generational team,

884
00:41:22,440 --> 00:41:24,599
Like they had a generational season that we just all

885
00:41:24,639 --> 00:41:27,280
couldn't accept at face value. For so long, we were

886
00:41:27,320 --> 00:41:30,519
conditioned to be skeptical and we really just shouldn't have

887
00:41:30,599 --> 00:41:34,320
been and Finally, the level of difficulty it must have taken,

888
00:41:34,519 --> 00:41:37,360
even from just an emotional standpoint, because I know Marcus

889
00:41:37,400 --> 00:41:40,960
Smart declined to make that call specifically to move him

890
00:41:41,000 --> 00:41:44,719
when they did. The degree of difficulty on that is

891
00:41:44,760 --> 00:41:46,800
through the roof, and so it goes from a C

892
00:41:46,880 --> 00:41:48,039
minus to an A plus for me.

893
00:41:48,360 --> 00:41:50,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, I had him at a B before, not including

894
00:41:50,960 --> 00:41:53,079
the Holiday trade. It probably would have been an A

895
00:41:53,400 --> 00:41:56,000
I think had that been included. So I and then

896
00:41:56,199 --> 00:41:59,039
SO factor that in, and then all the all the

897
00:41:59,079 --> 00:42:03,400
biggest moves they made just worked out better than even

898
00:42:03,440 --> 00:42:06,679
I thought they would. Like Porzingis mattered so much more

899
00:42:06,800 --> 00:42:08,800
than you could have ever foreseen, just because of the

900
00:42:08,800 --> 00:42:10,920
way they used him and the dimension that he added,

901
00:42:11,119 --> 00:42:13,679
and then Holiday was so perfect. And Jalen Brown, it's like,

902
00:42:13,719 --> 00:42:16,039
oh is he worth it? Well, he's Finals MVP now,

903
00:42:16,079 --> 00:42:18,280
So I guess I guess that turns out that that

904
00:42:18,360 --> 00:42:21,440
was a worthwhile expense. So it's just an A plus.

905
00:42:21,519 --> 00:42:26,760
I mean, everything Boston did exceeded, you know, what you

906
00:42:26,800 --> 00:42:30,559
would have expected, just at like a base level. And

907
00:42:30,880 --> 00:42:32,559
like some of the stuff, like you said, was bold,

908
00:42:32,599 --> 00:42:34,639
like trading Marcus Smart, even though you know a lot

909
00:42:34,639 --> 00:42:36,719
of Boston people would say like he wasn't the same guy,

910
00:42:36,800 --> 00:42:39,800
and he kind of didn't let the Jays kind of

911
00:42:39,840 --> 00:42:42,039
like take the locker room over. He was kind of

912
00:42:42,119 --> 00:42:44,440
a good, you know, little give and take in terms

913
00:42:44,480 --> 00:42:46,639
of his like off court presence. I think like he

914
00:42:46,719 --> 00:42:49,360
was still you couldn't really talk about Marcus Smart without

915
00:42:49,400 --> 00:42:51,920
saying the words hard and soul like at some point,

916
00:42:52,199 --> 00:42:55,599
and they moved him and got back another injury prone

917
00:42:55,639 --> 00:42:57,360
guy in Porzingis. I'm just trying to make like the

918
00:42:57,360 --> 00:43:01,159
Devil's advocate case for why their work question, but all

919
00:43:01,199 --> 00:43:04,840
of them were answered just to a ridiculously positive degree.

920
00:43:04,920 --> 00:43:06,800
Speaker 1: And by the way, the other thing is we could

921
00:43:06,800 --> 00:43:08,920
have just framed it this way. They traded three of

922
00:43:09,000 --> 00:43:11,320
the top six members of their rotation, which you just

923
00:43:11,360 --> 00:43:13,880
don't see like up a team at that level do.

924
00:43:13,960 --> 00:43:16,440
And then finally we haven't really mentioned it. The Jailn

925
00:43:16,519 --> 00:43:19,400
Brown extension was like that was debated to no when

926
00:43:19,440 --> 00:43:23,519
and then he just goes and wins finals MVP. So like,

927
00:43:23,599 --> 00:43:27,320
I it's just what a joke by me? That's all

928
00:43:27,480 --> 00:43:29,320
just shout out to me for just missing.

929
00:43:29,159 --> 00:43:30,960
Speaker 2: I'm sure I got one of those in here somewhere.

930
00:43:31,039 --> 00:43:33,360
Speaker 1: It didn't include the drew Holiday trade. I feel like

931
00:43:33,400 --> 00:43:35,000
I probably would only bumped them up to like a B.

932
00:43:35,440 --> 00:43:36,440
I don't even know if I would have been in

933
00:43:36,440 --> 00:43:39,159
at a B plus at that time before being brutally honest.

934
00:43:40,000 --> 00:43:44,440
Our next team up is the Brooklyn Nets. They drafted

935
00:43:44,480 --> 00:43:47,280
Noah Clowney at number twenty one. They drafted Dureek Whitehead

936
00:43:47,320 --> 00:43:49,480
at number twenty two. See I did it again, Grant.

937
00:43:49,559 --> 00:43:51,039
I told you this was gonna happen, that I was

938
00:43:51,079 --> 00:43:54,039
gonna get not stay on top of stopping the slides.

939
00:43:54,719 --> 00:43:56,719
They drafted Jail and Wilson at number fifty one, time

940
00:43:56,800 --> 00:43:58,960
into a two way. Actually really liked that move in hindsight.

941
00:43:59,119 --> 00:44:01,480
Signed Cam Johnson a four year, ninety four point five

942
00:44:01,480 --> 00:44:04,800
million dollar contract, no player options. Ninety million of that

943
00:44:04,920 --> 00:44:09,159
is guaranteed. They traded Joe Harris and two second rounds

944
00:44:09,159 --> 00:44:11,480
picks basically to Detroit. That's not basically, That's what they

945
00:44:11,480 --> 00:44:15,039
did created the tpe. They traded Patty Mills and Milwaukee's

946
00:44:15,039 --> 00:44:17,000
twenty twenty eight second round out to Houston for their

947
00:44:17,039 --> 00:44:20,079
own twenty twenty four second round pick. Back. They signed

948
00:44:20,079 --> 00:44:22,679
Dennis Smith Junior. They signed Minnie Walker the fourth. They

949
00:44:22,719 --> 00:44:27,199
signed Darius Baisley. That is the crux of their offseason grant,

950
00:44:27,280 --> 00:44:29,360
and we looked at it and we're just kind of

951
00:44:29,440 --> 00:44:31,840
like mah Y, I game A see game of C plus.

952
00:44:31,840 --> 00:44:33,199
How you how are you feeling about it? Now?

953
00:44:33,639 --> 00:44:36,159
Speaker 2: I'm thinking I gave them the met plus because I

954
00:44:36,239 --> 00:44:40,480
like Dennis Smith Junior and Lonnie Walker on minimums, and like,

955
00:44:40,679 --> 00:44:42,840
I think the lesson from Phoenix is you can't really

956
00:44:42,960 --> 00:44:45,719
let minimum signings, no matter how good of a value

957
00:44:45,800 --> 00:44:47,960
that you think they are way into these things. I

958
00:44:47,960 --> 00:44:50,400
don't know, maybe that'll get proven wrong this offseason and

959
00:44:50,440 --> 00:44:53,639
I'll have to reevaluate the Cam Johnson deal. Would you

960
00:44:53,639 --> 00:44:55,840
say the Cam Johnson contract looks better or worse today

961
00:44:55,880 --> 00:44:56,800
than it did a year ago.

962
00:44:57,199 --> 00:45:00,239
Speaker 1: I think it looks fine. Maybe the same feel like

963
00:45:00,280 --> 00:45:03,039
people are just they still seem to be dinging him

964
00:45:03,079 --> 00:45:05,760
because he wasn't super young when he was drafted. I

965
00:45:05,840 --> 00:45:09,320
just because Cam Johnson does everything that Cam Johnson is

966
00:45:09,360 --> 00:45:11,519
supposed to do as kind of a shooter, can do

967
00:45:11,559 --> 00:45:12,800
a little bit stuff on the ball, and he's not

968
00:45:12,800 --> 00:45:15,840
gonna submarine your defense. So I don't understand what the

969
00:45:16,199 --> 00:45:18,920
And that's just like the going rate for those guys. Now,

970
00:45:19,119 --> 00:45:21,119
I mean, unless you're you're viewing it through the lens

971
00:45:21,159 --> 00:45:23,039
of like, oh, Gary Trent Junior who got the minimum

972
00:45:23,039 --> 00:45:25,400
this year. It's like, Okay, the market's gonna fall out

973
00:45:25,599 --> 00:45:28,239
from under some guys. I do you feel worse about it?

974
00:45:28,280 --> 00:45:29,039
Is that why you were asked?

975
00:45:29,079 --> 00:45:30,400
Speaker 2: No, it's kind of the same. I was kind of

976
00:45:30,400 --> 00:45:32,800
looking for help there. I would say, I'll leave him

977
00:45:32,840 --> 00:45:34,519
at a C plus. And it's not because of the

978
00:45:34,599 --> 00:45:37,039
minimums anymore. It's because I actually think I like Noah

979
00:45:37,039 --> 00:45:39,119
Clowney a lot more today than I did a year ago.

980
00:45:39,280 --> 00:45:43,280
So just it's above average, I mean, nothing super consequential there.

981
00:45:43,400 --> 00:45:45,480
Speaker 1: I actually also think that they might have found a

982
00:45:45,559 --> 00:45:48,199
rotation player in Jalen Wilson, and so I'll go C

983
00:45:48,320 --> 00:45:51,079
plus as well. I think the only thing you could

984
00:45:51,119 --> 00:45:52,880
potentially not the only thing, but one of the things

985
00:45:52,880 --> 00:45:55,599
you could harp on is well, they knew that last

986
00:45:55,599 --> 00:45:56,960
season was going to play out the way it did, Like,

987
00:45:57,000 --> 00:45:59,559
why not tear it down sooner? It's I'm just assuming

988
00:46:00,119 --> 00:46:03,760
current tear down doesn't even happen unless that Houston trade

989
00:46:03,800 --> 00:46:04,639
is available.

990
00:46:04,280 --> 00:46:07,679
Speaker 2: To right, they had no incentive to tank lash. They

991
00:46:07,679 --> 00:46:08,599
don't have the picks, so.

992
00:46:08,880 --> 00:46:11,559
Speaker 1: Obviously they might deserve credit for not trying to double down.

993
00:46:11,920 --> 00:46:14,239
They did some financial maneuvering, so if you were, you know,

994
00:46:14,280 --> 00:46:16,840
if you're lamenting the absence of those seconds, but they

995
00:46:16,920 --> 00:46:19,079
might deserve I don't know how you square their way,

996
00:46:19,119 --> 00:46:21,320
but like, do they deserve any credit for not like

997
00:46:21,360 --> 00:46:24,199
resisting the temptation to go out and get just anyone

998
00:46:24,239 --> 00:46:26,000
to increase their immediate chances?

999
00:46:26,239 --> 00:46:28,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe, because you could you could imagine teams doing

1000
00:46:28,760 --> 00:46:31,599
that where it's like, well, what there's what's what's what's

1001
00:46:31,599 --> 00:46:33,679
the point in just you know, packing it in, we

1002
00:46:33,760 --> 00:46:35,760
might as well try. And they didn't do that, And

1003
00:46:35,760 --> 00:46:38,239
and then like, we can't credit them obviously for getting

1004
00:46:38,239 --> 00:46:40,039
the twenty five and twenty six first back because that

1005
00:46:40,360 --> 00:46:43,320
obviously happened like a few weeks ago. I don't know.

1006
00:46:43,320 --> 00:46:45,199
It still feels like above average getting into the B

1007
00:46:45,400 --> 00:46:47,719
range for that offseason would feel excessive to me.

1008
00:46:48,119 --> 00:46:51,000
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go be minus though I'm not. I like Eric,

1009
00:46:51,079 --> 00:46:53,360
I hope they I hope they played Noah Clowney and

1010
00:46:53,440 --> 00:46:55,760
Nick Claxon together a bunch, because that might be the

1011
00:46:55,800 --> 00:46:58,199
most like switchable dual big front court.

1012
00:46:58,360 --> 00:47:00,920
Speaker 2: And that's a fun that's a funny.

1013
00:47:01,400 --> 00:47:04,679
Speaker 1: After the Brooklyn Nets, we get to your New York Knicks.

1014
00:47:05,119 --> 00:47:08,360
Speaker 2: My I'm just looking, Okay, what do we do last year? Okay? Interesting,

1015
00:47:08,440 --> 00:47:10,800
I'm curious what we thought so sign Josh Hart four

1016
00:47:10,840 --> 00:47:13,400
years eighty one million, which was that.

1017
00:47:13,519 --> 00:47:15,239
Speaker 1: Was because I guess we're back At the time, it

1018
00:47:15,280 --> 00:47:18,360
was only like in the ether. It wasn't actually official,

1019
00:47:18,400 --> 00:47:20,639
So I don't know how heavily we might have factored

1020
00:47:20,639 --> 00:47:22,760
it in. I think we I believe we treated it

1021
00:47:22,960 --> 00:47:24,639
when I was listening back is like it was done,

1022
00:47:24,679 --> 00:47:27,079
but we never really clarified.

1023
00:47:26,679 --> 00:47:29,280
Speaker 2: In hindsight, was that kind of the harbinger of of

1024
00:47:29,599 --> 00:47:32,639
like all the Villanova guys taking like Jalen Brunson taking

1025
00:47:32,719 --> 00:47:35,039
less because it wasn't a situation where Heart had a

1026
00:47:35,079 --> 00:47:37,519
little more flexibility and didn't really need to wait to

1027
00:47:37,880 --> 00:47:40,119
do this. I can't remember the I think it was like.

1028
00:47:40,199 --> 00:47:43,599
Speaker 1: The way that he went about it was like the

1029
00:47:43,599 --> 00:47:46,079
fact that it ended up being another Villanova guy probably

1030
00:47:46,079 --> 00:47:47,840
should have been the clue that like, oh he did this,

1031
00:47:48,000 --> 00:47:50,480
it gave the NIXT more flexibility to use the non

1032
00:47:50,519 --> 00:47:53,880
taxpayer mid level and it was for that guy from Villanova.

1033
00:47:53,960 --> 00:47:56,760
But like we didn't. We probably made the joke about

1034
00:47:56,760 --> 00:47:58,679
connecting the dots at some point of the season, but like,

1035
00:47:58,719 --> 00:48:01,199
that was not it wasn't. Oh, they got Dante Devincenzo

1036
00:48:01,239 --> 00:48:03,159
because Josh Hart did this. Mccaut bridge is next.

1037
00:48:05,599 --> 00:48:10,159
Speaker 2: We probably at least thought that. Okay, anyway, up, I

1038
00:48:10,199 --> 00:48:13,159
will say we dely did not think that Jelen Bruns

1039
00:48:13,159 --> 00:48:14,360
was going to take this extensione.

1040
00:48:14,679 --> 00:48:17,119
Speaker 1: We dismissed it before it was even a rumor. And

1041
00:48:17,159 --> 00:48:19,360
then the news comes out that he was like reports

1042
00:48:19,360 --> 00:48:20,679
where that he was gonna take it, and we were

1043
00:48:20,719 --> 00:48:22,800
just like, nah, we'll believe it. Let me see it, right.

1044
00:48:22,880 --> 00:48:26,199
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I mean, let's I don't think anyone else

1045
00:48:26,280 --> 00:48:28,320
is going to do that. So Obi Toppin to Indy

1046
00:48:28,480 --> 00:48:30,760
for a couple of least favorable seconds in twenty eight

1047
00:48:30,760 --> 00:48:33,760
twenty nine, Dante de Vincenzo got the mid level. Right,

1048
00:48:33,800 --> 00:48:35,480
it was at the full mid level four years forty

1049
00:48:35,559 --> 00:48:39,480
nine point nine. Uh, that's looking pretty good. Uh. Signed

1050
00:48:39,519 --> 00:48:43,039
Nathan Night, Jalen Martin, Dylan Windler, what else? Signed Jacob Toppin,

1051
00:48:43,079 --> 00:48:46,679
which they just did again this past offseason. And that's

1052
00:48:46,880 --> 00:48:49,760
pretty much it, right, That's that's all we had to

1053
00:48:49,800 --> 00:48:52,440
go on. You had them at a C. I had

1054
00:48:52,480 --> 00:48:54,800
him at a C minus. I have no recollection of

1055
00:48:54,840 --> 00:48:58,639
why I went below average. We gotta feel a lot

1056
00:48:58,639 --> 00:49:01,280
better about it now, if only the de Vincenzo signing

1057
00:49:01,320 --> 00:49:03,719
was just one of the best anybody made all summer.

1058
00:49:04,159 --> 00:49:06,480
Speaker 1: We and they still deserved to merit for this. They

1059
00:49:06,480 --> 00:49:08,000
held on to Obi top in too long. It was

1060
00:49:08,000 --> 00:49:09,800
written in the stars that he was gonna need to

1061
00:49:09,800 --> 00:49:11,679
be moved. And it's fine that they ended up doing

1062
00:49:11,719 --> 00:49:14,119
a solid because of like the whole agency relationship, and

1063
00:49:14,159 --> 00:49:17,079
he ended up flourishing by his standards in Indiana. But

1064
00:49:17,239 --> 00:49:19,840
like looking at it from an asset management perspective, you

1065
00:49:19,920 --> 00:49:22,079
knew Julius Randall was there. You knew that that wasn't

1066
00:49:22,119 --> 00:49:25,960
going to change, so you know you drafted him with

1067
00:49:26,000 --> 00:49:28,280
the intention of assuming of trading Julius Randall. So even

1068
00:49:28,280 --> 00:49:30,760
if you couldn't have predicted the Julius Randall breakout, to

1069
00:49:30,840 --> 00:49:32,239
hold on for him for as long as you did

1070
00:49:32,320 --> 00:49:34,840
without really ever giving him like a massive role. I

1071
00:49:34,920 --> 00:49:36,840
understand he wasn't a fit for the team. They still

1072
00:49:36,880 --> 00:49:39,199
deserve it to merit for it. But we missed on

1073
00:49:39,360 --> 00:49:42,280
I don't we missed on the Dante diven I did anyway.

1074
00:49:42,320 --> 00:49:45,920
I remember writing that people are viewing Dante Devincenzo was

1075
00:49:45,920 --> 00:49:47,800
the second coming of Steph Curry and New York for

1076
00:49:47,800 --> 00:49:49,519
his force basing, and he's not that and what does

1077
00:49:49,559 --> 00:49:52,320
he become in New York? It was, And it's funny

1078
00:49:52,320 --> 00:49:54,400
because it's like they're the piece that came out about

1079
00:49:54,440 --> 00:49:57,159
how Steph Curry kind of helped him, like with all

1080
00:49:57,199 --> 00:49:59,480
the stuff that he's doing as a shooter. So I

1081
00:49:59,480 --> 00:50:01,719
think you look back at this and some of the

1082
00:50:01,880 --> 00:50:04,239
we we did not subscribe to this, but a lot

1083
00:50:04,280 --> 00:50:06,280
of people were this was the summer they needed to

1084
00:50:06,280 --> 00:50:09,960
make the big move YadA, YadA, YadA. We talked about

1085
00:50:10,079 --> 00:50:13,480
at length who did they pass on? What was available

1086
00:50:13,480 --> 00:50:15,440
to them that they punted on by going this route.

1087
00:50:15,480 --> 00:50:17,880
So we did not hammer them for not making a

1088
00:50:17,920 --> 00:50:19,880
bigger trade because I don't like, look at what happened,

1089
00:50:19,920 --> 00:50:22,519
Like they weren't a James Harden team, Like they weren't

1090
00:50:22,559 --> 00:50:24,719
really og Ananobe they were linked to, but we were.

1091
00:50:24,760 --> 00:50:27,840
They eventually got them, just like well that's.

1092
00:50:27,599 --> 00:50:31,199
Speaker 2: The other thing, Like that's a great point because if

1093
00:50:31,199 --> 00:50:34,679
the criticism was you didn't take a big swing, well

1094
00:50:34,719 --> 00:50:36,440
they kept the powder dry and they end up with

1095
00:50:36,519 --> 00:50:38,880
og Annobi and mckal bridges down the line.

1096
00:50:39,000 --> 00:50:42,679
Speaker 1: So it's part of that was Emmanuel quickly not getting

1097
00:50:42,719 --> 00:50:45,400
an extension made him easier to trade, and so that

1098
00:50:45,440 --> 00:50:48,880
probably needs to bump up their their grade quite a bit.

1099
00:50:49,000 --> 00:50:52,599
I mean, I think Josh Hart, that's probably I love

1100
00:50:52,639 --> 00:50:56,119
Josh Hart, but like that extensions probably like an average move, right,

1101
00:50:56,119 --> 00:50:59,559
maybe slightly above water, just like he's thet traid to shoot.

1102
00:51:00,199 --> 00:51:02,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's he's he was so valuable for them

1103
00:51:03,079 --> 00:51:04,920
and like in a way that I don't know if

1104
00:51:04,960 --> 00:51:08,119
you could swap in another guy with similar skills, making

1105
00:51:08,159 --> 00:51:10,559
the same money and get like what they got from

1106
00:51:10,639 --> 00:51:12,880
him last year. He was such a defining figure. I

1107
00:51:12,920 --> 00:51:16,079
don't know how you weigh any of that, like dollars wise,

1108
00:51:16,599 --> 00:51:19,559
but it is like it is feels like that's about right,

1109
00:51:20,159 --> 00:51:24,239
but considering the the intangibles, like, okay, I think that's

1110
00:51:24,239 --> 00:51:26,480
still a positive deal for the Knicks. I don't know

1111
00:51:26,480 --> 00:51:28,239
if that would be true if he were on another team,

1112
00:51:28,719 --> 00:51:30,480
Like that's just I don't know how you weigh that,

1113
00:51:30,519 --> 00:51:34,280
but this is like just just I think the more

1114
00:51:34,320 --> 00:51:37,199
I think about it, what you said about not making

1115
00:51:37,239 --> 00:51:39,760
the move that allowed you to wait and make a

1116
00:51:39,920 --> 00:51:42,960
much better set of moves down the line. In addition

1117
00:51:43,000 --> 00:51:44,800
to de Vincenzo, this got it, this has gotta go

1118
00:51:44,840 --> 00:51:46,559
way up at least for me, which I had a

1119
00:51:46,599 --> 00:51:49,480
C minus. This is this is like minimum B plus

1120
00:51:49,760 --> 00:51:51,000
for me, maybe even A.

1121
00:51:51,840 --> 00:51:53,639
Speaker 1: I was gonna go after talking through that's what I

1122
00:51:53,679 --> 00:51:55,400
was gonna go with A minus after talking through the

1123
00:51:55,400 --> 00:51:58,199
immanual quickly stuff. And also I don't think I mean,

1124
00:51:58,440 --> 00:52:00,760
just look at what the percentage of salary cap that

1125
00:52:00,840 --> 00:52:03,880
Dante Devincenzo's going to And by the way, Jalen Brunson

1126
00:52:03,920 --> 00:52:05,760
goes on to accept the pay cut that basically amounts

1127
00:52:05,760 --> 00:52:08,800
to one Dante Devincenzo per year for the next three years.

1128
00:52:08,639 --> 00:52:12,679
It's just like, I just that that's gonna I mean,

1129
00:52:12,880 --> 00:52:14,800
with three years left on it, that's gonna that has

1130
00:52:14,840 --> 00:52:16,400
to be one of the best contracts in the league,

1131
00:52:16,480 --> 00:52:18,280
right of like non rookie scale division.

1132
00:52:18,440 --> 00:52:21,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's really good. I'll go as just just

1133
00:52:21,519 --> 00:52:24,159
because I don't I mean, I guess if you're gonna

1134
00:52:24,239 --> 00:52:26,599
knock him, it's the like you said, the topping thing

1135
00:52:27,320 --> 00:52:29,199
out of side, out of mind, like they you know,

1136
00:52:29,559 --> 00:52:31,119
I I just.

1137
00:52:31,840 --> 00:52:33,679
Speaker 1: Going to give them a lot more for Obi Top

1138
00:52:33,719 --> 00:52:35,280
and I think they still could have gotten more at

1139
00:52:35,280 --> 00:52:38,920
some point. I don't think they passed on like a

1140
00:52:38,960 --> 00:52:41,159
lot of like a top ten protected first that just

1141
00:52:41,239 --> 00:52:43,039
wasn't that wasn't gonna be out there for By.

1142
00:52:42,880 --> 00:52:44,960
Speaker 2: The way, it's an a plus offseason for Obi Top

1143
00:52:45,079 --> 00:52:47,039
because he got to the one team that was willing

1144
00:52:47,039 --> 00:52:49,639
to pay him this contract that he just got.

1145
00:52:50,079 --> 00:52:52,480
Speaker 1: Actually back to back a plus off seasons for Obi

1146
00:52:52,519 --> 00:52:54,559
Toppin gets to the team and then gets the money

1147
00:52:54,599 --> 00:52:55,199
from the team and the.

1148
00:52:55,199 --> 00:52:57,280
Speaker 2: Post good job by him.

1149
00:52:57,960 --> 00:53:00,920
Speaker 1: Uh, we are on to the Philadelphia seventy six ers.

1150
00:53:01,679 --> 00:53:04,840
They did some stuff Grant, They fired Doc Rivers, hired

1151
00:53:04,920 --> 00:53:07,840
Nick Nurse, They signed Mobamba, they signed Patrick Beverley. They

1152
00:53:07,840 --> 00:53:10,559
did resign Mantres Harrold, who tores acl He was then waived.

1153
00:53:11,000 --> 00:53:12,880
They matched an offer sheet on Paul Reid for three

1154
00:53:12,960 --> 00:53:15,079
years twenty five and a half million. The second two

1155
00:53:15,119 --> 00:53:18,159
years only became guaranteed if Philly won the opening round

1156
00:53:18,159 --> 00:53:21,559
of the twenty twenty four playoffs. They did not, And

1157
00:53:21,719 --> 00:53:24,320
yeah that's the So the James Harden trade, he was

1158
00:53:24,360 --> 00:53:26,400
traded in season, so at this time he had opted

1159
00:53:26,440 --> 00:53:30,599
in the trade demand was there. We ended up talking

1160
00:53:30,639 --> 00:53:33,519
about that obviously, and we gave them an F slash

1161
00:53:33,719 --> 00:53:37,480
TBD on it, So we penciled in F. But we

1162
00:53:37,559 --> 00:53:39,280
called it a TVD because we need to see how

1163
00:53:39,280 --> 00:53:43,400
that James Harden trade played out in retrospect. Grant, how

1164
00:53:43,840 --> 00:53:46,280
did this offseason play pat out for the Sixers?

1165
00:53:46,360 --> 00:53:48,480
Speaker 2: I have no idea what to do with this because

1166
00:53:48,519 --> 00:53:50,920
I almost want to give him another TBD since they

1167
00:53:51,000 --> 00:53:54,199
just rebuilt the whole team in the wake of the

1168
00:53:54,199 --> 00:53:57,000
Hard and trade that freed up money. I mean, like

1169
00:53:58,400 --> 00:54:02,079
I guess, I guess, well, well, we can't do anything

1170
00:54:02,119 --> 00:54:03,960
with the Harden trade, right. This is the hardest thing

1171
00:54:04,000 --> 00:54:06,159
to talk about because we've all talked offline about this,

1172
00:54:06,280 --> 00:54:08,360
like what is this an off season thing? Do you

1173
00:54:08,360 --> 00:54:10,559
penalize them for not trading him in the off season?

1174
00:54:10,920 --> 00:54:13,400
Speaker 1: So we pean a lot or are before we went

1175
00:54:13,400 --> 00:54:15,559
with a TVD. But like part of the grade was

1176
00:54:16,440 --> 00:54:19,360
you're doing nothing to like improve Joelmbe's prime and now

1177
00:54:19,360 --> 00:54:22,079
you're sitting on this whole James Harden situation. We also

1178
00:54:22,119 --> 00:54:25,199
had to grade. Okay, there was clearly some level of miscommunication.

1179
00:54:25,199 --> 00:54:26,480
I don't know if they lied to him, but like

1180
00:54:26,519 --> 00:54:29,320
where did the communication break down? But I think what

1181
00:54:29,360 --> 00:54:31,679
we have to factor in is the decision to wait.

1182
00:54:31,800 --> 00:54:34,039
Don't grade the James Harden trade package, but they decided

1183
00:54:34,079 --> 00:54:37,079
to wait it out. Is their off season and their

1184
00:54:37,199 --> 00:54:40,079
current position better off because they did that? I think

1185
00:54:40,079 --> 00:54:42,920
the answer is yes, because while they didn't get Terrence Mann,

1186
00:54:43,199 --> 00:54:45,639
you got off PJ. Tucker. You he went to a

1187
00:54:45,639 --> 00:54:47,559
team that was able to send you back basically all

1188
00:54:47,559 --> 00:54:50,679
expiring money. And so it's set up this offseason and

1189
00:54:50,719 --> 00:54:53,000
so I do think they're kind of intertwined. You don't, like,

1190
00:54:53,639 --> 00:54:55,559
I understand what you're saying. In terms of factoring it in,

1191
00:54:55,559 --> 00:54:57,000
you could ask, well, should they have just made that

1192
00:54:57,079 --> 00:55:00,440
move sooner so you didn't have the distraction? Sure? But

1193
00:55:00,480 --> 00:55:03,559
by also holding out as long as they did, like,

1194
00:55:03,639 --> 00:55:06,360
they checked most of the boxes that they have distant

1195
00:55:06,400 --> 00:55:08,719
Clippers first round equity now and then they set the

1196
00:55:08,760 --> 00:55:11,519
stage for the offseason that we just witnessed, which was

1197
00:55:11,519 --> 00:55:15,840
a masterclass in salary cap management and talent acquisition. And

1198
00:55:15,880 --> 00:55:19,280
by the way, they wound up setting James Harden to

1199
00:55:19,440 --> 00:55:21,719
the team and then poach that teams like, because part

1200
00:55:21,719 --> 00:55:23,639
of it was why would you trade James Hard and

1201
00:55:23,679 --> 00:55:26,480
the Clippers. If you want Paul George, you're circling him

1202
00:55:26,480 --> 00:55:28,239
as part of your tap space when you just made

1203
00:55:28,239 --> 00:55:30,199
that team better, and it's well, did you kind of

1204
00:55:30,280 --> 00:55:32,719
lay the groundwork for making sure George left?

1205
00:55:32,840 --> 00:55:35,480
Speaker 2: That's three D chess there. Did they sign? Was Kelly

1206
00:55:35,559 --> 00:55:38,079
Ubra a minimum signing last year? Is that not on here?

1207
00:55:38,199 --> 00:55:38,519
Or did? I?

1208
00:55:38,599 --> 00:55:41,480
Speaker 1: Oh? Yeah, so no, you're not imagining that. So they

1209
00:55:41,480 --> 00:55:44,000
got Kelly Bridgnior at the minimum? I apologized including that.

1210
00:55:44,199 --> 00:55:46,639
Speaker 2: That No, that that's good, I mean what they so?

1211
00:55:46,960 --> 00:55:51,159
And again another like road not taken thing, like maybe

1212
00:55:51,199 --> 00:55:54,719
they do deserve credit for not signing anybody to long

1213
00:55:54,800 --> 00:55:57,679
term money, which set them up this summer to just

1214
00:55:57,679 --> 00:56:01,320
just redo the whole team basically, including getting Paul George.

1215
00:56:01,679 --> 00:56:02,000
Speaker 1: I don't know.

1216
00:56:02,039 --> 00:56:04,360
Speaker 2: I mean, it's obviously not an f because they did

1217
00:56:04,719 --> 00:56:08,400
emerge from the hardened situation looking probably better than I

1218
00:56:08,400 --> 00:56:10,519
don't know, I imagine, because they just did find that

1219
00:56:10,559 --> 00:56:13,760
Clippers team that wanted him and nobody else seemed to.

1220
00:56:14,599 --> 00:56:18,119
This has gotta be are we going above average here?

1221
00:56:18,199 --> 00:56:18,639
I just don't.

1222
00:56:18,719 --> 00:56:20,719
Speaker 1: I don't know. Like the other thing to consider is like,

1223
00:56:20,719 --> 00:56:23,039
think about what Joel Embiid looked like under Nick Nurse

1224
00:56:23,280 --> 00:56:25,079
as a pastor specifically, just.

1225
00:56:25,119 --> 00:56:28,440
Speaker 2: Rivers to Nurse is just an upgrade, flat out right,

1226
00:56:28,480 --> 00:56:31,000
like that's Nurses just a better coach, and certainly was

1227
00:56:31,000 --> 00:56:34,519
better for Embiid and certainly was better if you weren't

1228
00:56:34,519 --> 00:56:36,880
going to just spam picking rolls with Harden and Embiid,

1229
00:56:36,880 --> 00:56:38,719
which was not going to happen because Harden was going

1230
00:56:38,760 --> 00:56:42,880
to be gone. I'm tempted to go, like tempted to

1231
00:56:42,880 --> 00:56:45,599
go be minus just because it was like remarkable to

1232
00:56:45,719 --> 00:56:49,719
get off of Harden, even if it happened later and

1233
00:56:49,880 --> 00:56:52,920
set yourself up. I mean, think about this, Think about

1234
00:56:52,920 --> 00:56:57,199
how difficult the decision must have been to essentially, in

1235
00:56:57,239 --> 00:57:00,400
a lot of ways, say Joel Embiid, we're not gonna

1236
00:57:00,440 --> 00:57:02,519
put the best possible team around you this year in

1237
00:57:02,599 --> 00:57:04,800
your prime. You're just gonna have to trust us we

1238
00:57:04,880 --> 00:57:07,320
will do that in a year. And they, I mean,

1239
00:57:07,519 --> 00:57:09,440
we haven't seen the twenty four to twenty five six ers,

1240
00:57:09,440 --> 00:57:11,679
but they kind of pulled it off. So maybe we're

1241
00:57:11,679 --> 00:57:14,000
getting too far into the weeds. But but like the

1242
00:57:14,039 --> 00:57:16,440
other happen if you don't get buy in, and so

1243
00:57:16,639 --> 00:57:18,800
it just feels like a feels like a B minus

1244
00:57:18,840 --> 00:57:20,159
I'm gonna go B minus.

1245
00:57:19,840 --> 00:57:23,199
Speaker 1: Here, so I'm gonna go to an a wow. I

1246
00:57:23,239 --> 00:57:25,559
think the other things that we haven't talked about yet

1247
00:57:25,599 --> 00:57:28,719
is you have to convince or get Tyree's Maxi on

1248
00:57:28,760 --> 00:57:32,800
board while all this is happening with not signing his extension,

1249
00:57:33,360 --> 00:57:35,920
and so to do that, like to have the level

1250
00:57:36,039 --> 00:57:38,400
to get the level of trust from that player who

1251
00:57:38,480 --> 00:57:42,519
is one represented by Clutch and Rick Paul and then

1252
00:57:42,599 --> 00:57:46,119
two to get that buy in while you're dealing with

1253
00:57:46,159 --> 00:57:48,360
a hardened situation of him claiming that you broke a

1254
00:57:48,440 --> 00:57:50,719
promise to give him X amount of money or whatever

1255
00:57:50,760 --> 00:57:54,880
it was. I just it to me, that's not it's

1256
00:57:54,920 --> 00:57:57,559
tough because of the domino effect. Without but without doing

1257
00:57:57,639 --> 00:58:00,320
all those things, the waiting, the not signing Tyre's actually

1258
00:58:00,400 --> 00:58:03,000
convincing him to be on board, you set the stage

1259
00:58:03,000 --> 00:58:04,559
for what this team became. And by the way, the

1260
00:58:04,639 --> 00:58:07,079
other thing our logic behind it when we were talking

1261
00:58:07,079 --> 00:58:09,960
about it, and you just mentioned it too, is that

1262
00:58:10,000 --> 00:58:12,679
you were kind of punting like that tough conversation with

1263
00:58:12,760 --> 00:58:15,199
Joel Embiid. But even if Joell Ebie was on board,

1264
00:58:15,480 --> 00:58:17,199
you still kind of could have viewed as well. You

1265
00:58:17,239 --> 00:58:18,840
just kind of wasted, like you made it a gap

1266
00:58:18,920 --> 00:58:21,000
year when he doesn't have gap years to give. But

1267
00:58:21,159 --> 00:58:23,400
also it ended up not really being a gap year

1268
00:58:23,440 --> 00:58:25,719
because Joel Ebe got injured and look at what they

1269
00:58:25,719 --> 00:58:28,880
were before he got injured, like Tyrese Maxi was like

1270
00:58:29,000 --> 00:58:33,159
borderline all NBA last season. So I like all that

1271
00:58:33,199 --> 00:58:35,800
stuff factoring in. It wasn't perfect because they probably could

1272
00:58:35,840 --> 00:58:38,679
have won. About the James Harden situation differently, and would

1273
00:58:38,719 --> 00:58:41,880
this same deal, Like the thing that is impossible, at

1274
00:58:41,960 --> 00:58:45,079
least from my perspective to figure out is did by waiting?

1275
00:58:45,440 --> 00:58:48,599
Like what did they gain by waiting? It wasn't Terrence Man,

1276
00:58:48,679 --> 00:58:50,519
It probably wasn't first round equity when you look like

1277
00:58:50,559 --> 00:58:52,360
what they got back was it, Oh, we were able

1278
00:58:52,400 --> 00:58:55,039
to get PJ. Tucker's money off and that wasn't originally

1279
00:58:55,079 --> 00:58:57,920
gonna happen. So that's what I'm never like, if that

1280
00:58:58,039 --> 00:59:01,079
same deal was available to them, you know when we

1281
00:59:01,079 --> 00:59:02,960
were doing these grades, then yeah, you probably should have

1282
00:59:03,039 --> 00:59:04,840
just taken it if that's what you wound up accepting.

1283
00:59:04,880 --> 00:59:07,960
But everything else you did, like it really did pave

1284
00:59:08,000 --> 00:59:11,000
the way for just an incredible off season from them

1285
00:59:11,000 --> 00:59:11,400
this year.

1286
00:59:11,760 --> 00:59:14,559
Speaker 2: Yeah, the Maxi I totally forgot about the Maxi thing,

1287
00:59:14,599 --> 00:59:17,320
and it is now my personal crusade to get teams to,

1288
00:59:17,760 --> 00:59:19,800
you know, convince players they do want to keep to

1289
00:59:19,920 --> 00:59:22,840
go that route and it's so hard to do so

1290
00:59:22,880 --> 00:59:24,440
that I've got to go what did I say, be

1291
00:59:24,519 --> 00:59:26,400
my yeah, I'm going much higher than that. And then,

1292
00:59:26,519 --> 00:59:29,280
like I do always in the past, I've made the

1293
00:59:29,400 --> 00:59:32,639
argument that you shouldn't get credit for I think in

1294
00:59:32,679 --> 00:59:35,559
the Durant case, for like for Brooklyn, probably like you

1295
00:59:35,679 --> 00:59:38,480
flew the plane into a hurricane and you've managed to

1296
00:59:38,559 --> 00:59:41,239
land it successfully against all odds. That's a little bit

1297
00:59:41,320 --> 00:59:43,880
like bringing like you traded stuff for James Harden and

1298
00:59:44,000 --> 00:59:46,239
oh my god, it went sideways. Who would have ever

1299
00:59:46,280 --> 00:59:50,400
imagined they kind of emerged from that unscathed somehow, So

1300
00:59:50,599 --> 00:59:56,000
maybe you went flat a man. The maxi thing is

1301
00:59:56,039 --> 01:00:00,320
really persuasive also in minus, just because you brought some

1302
01:00:00,360 --> 01:00:03,360
of the difficulty on yourself by adding Harden in the

1303
01:00:03,360 --> 01:00:05,559
first place. I know that's not a last offseason thing,

1304
01:00:05,840 --> 01:00:07,039
but I can't get to the flat a.

1305
01:00:08,079 --> 01:00:10,400
Speaker 1: But however, the alternative would have been what with Ben

1306
01:00:10,440 --> 01:00:11,519
Simmons as well?

1307
01:00:12,199 --> 01:00:14,920
Speaker 2: That's a yeah, I'm really trying not to give a

1308
01:00:14,920 --> 01:00:17,199
flat A, but you keep giving me reasons to do it.

1309
01:00:17,760 --> 01:00:20,559
Uh yeah, that's true. God, imagine how much worse off

1310
01:00:20,599 --> 01:00:22,719
they'd be. You're not getting. What do they get for Harden?

1311
01:00:22,760 --> 01:00:24,440
They got at least one real pick. I'll go in

1312
01:00:24,480 --> 01:00:25,440
a just do flat A.

1313
01:00:25,760 --> 01:00:27,639
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean they have that distant clipper. They got

1314
01:00:27,679 --> 01:00:30,000
two I think first round picks out of it, like

1315
01:00:30,079 --> 01:00:34,239
in net So and like they get that while he's disgruntled. Look,

1316
01:00:34,360 --> 01:00:36,679
we went from a TVD F to an A, which

1317
01:00:36,719 --> 01:00:39,840
is basically the aside from an F to an A plus.

1318
01:00:39,920 --> 01:00:42,039
Like that's the largest possible jump that you could make.

1319
01:00:42,119 --> 01:00:45,079
Speaker 2: But we it's a unique situation. We don't have. This

1320
01:00:45,199 --> 01:00:47,840
was really a two year plan that like started getting

1321
01:00:47,840 --> 01:00:51,000
executed last year. And it's like not a lot of

1322
01:00:51,000 --> 01:00:53,960
teams have the balls or the like you know, the

1323
01:00:54,920 --> 01:00:59,039
I don't know, planning acumen to and the the ability

1324
01:00:59,079 --> 01:01:02,159
to like coax pays out of players that just have

1325
01:01:02,320 --> 01:01:05,519
no reason to be patient with you. So yeah, we've

1326
01:01:05,519 --> 01:01:06,840
got to go all the way up to an A.

1327
01:01:08,119 --> 01:01:09,679
Speaker 1: I can tell you one team that's not going to

1328
01:01:09,760 --> 01:01:11,599
get a A is this next team, and that is the

1329
01:01:11,639 --> 01:01:14,440
Toronto Raptors. Is this my team? Or your team.

1330
01:01:14,719 --> 01:01:17,320
Speaker 2: I'll take them. So fired Nick Nurse Hark hired a

1331
01:01:17,440 --> 01:01:20,920
Darko Ryakovic Grady Dick at thirteen. We were both I

1332
01:01:20,960 --> 01:01:23,039
think pretty you more so than me. We're pretty high

1333
01:01:23,079 --> 01:01:25,480
on that pick. Still good pick. Gary trentp picked up

1334
01:01:25,480 --> 01:01:26,159
his player option.

1335
01:01:26,840 --> 01:01:28,719
Speaker 1: I think he thought it was going to pretend an

1336
01:01:28,760 --> 01:01:32,360
extension and apparently it could have. But he you wanted

1337
01:01:32,360 --> 01:01:34,880
to read his own market quite a bit.

1338
01:01:34,920 --> 01:01:38,760
Speaker 2: It seems like resigned Yaka Perl four years eighty million,

1339
01:01:39,760 --> 01:01:42,960
Dennis Shrewder two years, twenty five, Jalen McDaniels two years

1340
01:01:43,519 --> 01:01:47,840
nine point three. Let's see. Oh was so the was

1341
01:01:47,880 --> 01:01:48,639
Fred van Vliet?

1342
01:01:48,760 --> 01:01:50,639
Speaker 1: No, he was just I wanted that was a big

1343
01:01:50,840 --> 01:01:53,760
like most of these teams didn't shed that level of talents.

1344
01:01:53,800 --> 01:01:55,519
I wanted to know, like part of the grade was

1345
01:01:55,559 --> 01:01:57,480
Fred VanVleet left.

1346
01:01:57,679 --> 01:02:01,440
Speaker 2: And then at the time Scalciakam and og Anonoby we're

1347
01:02:01,480 --> 01:02:04,920
both still on the roster facing unrestricted free agency. On

1348
01:02:04,960 --> 01:02:08,880
Ananobe had the player option. Sam was headed straight for it.

1349
01:02:09,480 --> 01:02:14,400
So what did we give them? Yeah? We killed him?

1350
01:02:14,639 --> 01:02:16,360
You would, Oh, I love it you. This is the

1351
01:02:16,360 --> 01:02:19,840
only F minus on the board from Dan fa Valley congratulations.

1352
01:02:19,880 --> 01:02:24,199
I had an f uh. I mean, we're not moving

1353
01:02:24,199 --> 01:02:25,440
this up a ton, are we?

1354
01:02:26,320 --> 01:02:30,400
Speaker 1: What? What's the argument for moving it up? Because if

1355
01:02:30,400 --> 01:02:32,679
you want to push back, I should because I liked

1356
01:02:32,679 --> 01:02:34,360
it to pick. But I still gave him an F

1357
01:02:34,440 --> 01:02:37,679
minus the dark Arayakovic higher. I mean, if you want

1358
01:02:37,760 --> 01:02:39,559
proof of just like, look at what Scotty Barnes was

1359
01:02:39,639 --> 01:02:41,280
under him, look at what RJ. Barrett was able to

1360
01:02:41,280 --> 01:02:43,159
do under him after the trade. So I think that's

1361
01:02:43,199 --> 01:02:45,559
a good higher. Grady Dick doesn't start. That was looking

1362
01:02:45,639 --> 01:02:48,280
rough for a minute, but it turns out to be

1363
01:02:48,440 --> 01:02:50,599
I think you should probably be their fifth starter right now.

1364
01:02:50,719 --> 01:02:52,000
I don't know what to make in the garage Tren

1365
01:02:52,119 --> 01:02:54,559
Junior situation, like you can't. I think they were smart

1366
01:02:54,559 --> 01:02:56,119
not to offer him more than they did, but then

1367
01:02:56,199 --> 01:02:59,519
kind of losing him for nothing is not great. I

1368
01:02:59,559 --> 01:03:02,400
don't like Yaka Pero contract. Still. I recognize that he

1369
01:03:02,400 --> 01:03:04,559
does stuff for this team, but when they're still kind

1370
01:03:04,599 --> 01:03:07,079
of trying to determine their direction, I don't love it.

1371
01:03:07,119 --> 01:03:09,039
I think at best it's an average move, and I

1372
01:03:09,079 --> 01:03:12,920
would say it's probably closer to below average. Jae McDaniel's

1373
01:03:12,960 --> 01:03:16,440
disaster Dennis Schroeder, Okay, a fine placeholder. The big things

1374
01:03:16,440 --> 01:03:19,360
for me, you could have traded Fred van Fleet like

1375
01:03:19,400 --> 01:03:20,760
and this was a two or you could have paid

1376
01:03:20,840 --> 01:03:23,280
him because it was a two year max effectively. And

1377
01:03:23,320 --> 01:03:25,760
then the other thing is the decision, because it was

1378
01:03:25,800 --> 01:03:28,719
a decision to not trade Pascal Siakam and og Anobi

1379
01:03:28,760 --> 01:03:32,360
at the time, I don't know, like maybe in og

1380
01:03:32,480 --> 01:03:36,840
an Andobi you because of the injury history, you're fine

1381
01:03:36,880 --> 01:03:39,119
with what they ended up getting for him. Like again,

1382
01:03:39,239 --> 01:03:41,480
Arjie Barrett was great for them. I love the manuel

1383
01:03:41,559 --> 01:03:43,880
quickly you got based off how you paid him and

1384
01:03:43,880 --> 01:03:45,400
gave him a five year deal, you want to keep

1385
01:03:45,480 --> 01:03:48,239
him around. It does seem like they might have gotten

1386
01:03:48,920 --> 01:03:52,239
posed on the Pascal Siakam front, and I think at

1387
01:03:52,360 --> 01:03:53,840
least some of that was I know a lot of

1388
01:03:53,840 --> 01:03:57,960
people make concerns about, well, he's like kind of older

1389
01:03:58,000 --> 01:03:59,079
than you think, and how's his.

1390
01:03:59,079 --> 01:04:00,159
Speaker 2: Game gonna age.

1391
01:04:00,360 --> 01:04:02,360
Speaker 1: What happened by not moving him at the time is

1392
01:04:02,400 --> 01:04:04,559
you remember how he began the season is basically like

1393
01:04:04,599 --> 01:04:08,280
an accessory on the offensive end, and it looked disastrous.

1394
01:04:08,280 --> 01:04:10,679
And so you have a guy an expiring contract stock

1395
01:04:10,760 --> 01:04:13,119
kind of going through the like the floor you have

1396
01:04:13,440 --> 01:04:16,760
just rumors about like weirdness between him and the organization,

1397
01:04:16,840 --> 01:04:18,480
and then even have a Masaiyu Jerry kind of coming

1398
01:04:18,519 --> 01:04:20,800
out after the fact and saying he regretted how it

1399
01:04:20,880 --> 01:04:25,639
was handled. I just maybe i'll I'll bump it up

1400
01:04:25,679 --> 01:04:28,960
to an F because I like Darkoreyakovic now obviously more

1401
01:04:29,000 --> 01:04:30,360
than any at the time because we didn't have a

1402
01:04:30,440 --> 01:04:32,599
ton of background on it. But this was still a

1403
01:04:32,599 --> 01:04:35,559
pretty bad offseason because in a vacuum, even if waiting

1404
01:04:35,599 --> 01:04:39,559
for the Ognnobi trade was the smart decision, waiting on

1405
01:04:39,599 --> 01:04:42,679
the Pascal Siakam front, I do not think was. And

1406
01:04:42,960 --> 01:04:45,639
the most charitable interpretation of that is they were trying

1407
01:04:45,679 --> 01:04:48,079
to figure out if they could still be good, right.

1408
01:04:48,400 --> 01:04:52,559
Speaker 2: I think I think just at a base level, you

1409
01:04:52,599 --> 01:04:55,199
can't really make the argument that they would have gotten

1410
01:04:55,280 --> 01:04:58,039
less for Siakam or Ananobe had they traded them in

1411
01:04:58,079 --> 01:05:00,920
the offseason. You would have had more options, you could

1412
01:05:00,960 --> 01:05:02,920
have done better. And I think if you look at

1413
01:05:02,960 --> 01:05:05,920
the situation Toronto's in now, which isn't bad because quickly

1414
01:05:05,960 --> 01:05:07,760
Barnes bear it like there's.

1415
01:05:07,800 --> 01:05:11,559
Speaker 1: But those four guys Pearl Barrett Barnes, and quickly at

1416
01:05:11,559 --> 01:05:14,599
the time they played together, they obliterated. Like the numbers

1417
01:05:14,639 --> 01:05:17,079
on the data on that, like force them is really good.

1418
01:05:17,400 --> 01:05:20,760
Speaker 2: The problem is, I think there's a scenario where and

1419
01:05:20,800 --> 01:05:22,280
go all the way back to van Fleet if you

1420
01:05:22,320 --> 01:05:25,960
want to trying to move him sooner, although I don't

1421
01:05:25,960 --> 01:05:27,519
know if it's fair to call that an offseason thing

1422
01:05:27,559 --> 01:05:29,079
because you would have wanted to trade him at the

1423
01:05:29,079 --> 01:05:35,559
deadline in twenty twenty three. If you're looking at rebuilding

1424
01:05:35,599 --> 01:05:37,719
teams and you're like ranking them, like who's got the

1425
01:05:37,719 --> 01:05:40,559
brightest outlook? Just between who's got the cornerstone, who's got

1426
01:05:40,559 --> 01:05:42,760
the most draft equity, who's the most flexible, who has

1427
01:05:42,760 --> 01:05:45,880
the most upside? Like Toronto almost doesn't even profile as

1428
01:05:45,880 --> 01:05:48,239
a rebuilder just because Barnes is on the max. You

1429
01:05:48,280 --> 01:05:50,639
still have Pearl, who's a veteran center making twenty a

1430
01:05:50,719 --> 01:05:53,760
year quickly is like he's young, but he's not like, oh,

1431
01:05:53,760 --> 01:05:55,880
what's he going to be in five years? You know,

1432
01:05:55,920 --> 01:05:59,079
he's not nineteen. Barrett. I think is fairly well established.

1433
01:05:59,079 --> 01:06:00,920
They'll hit a new level. Like there's a scenario where

1434
01:06:01,440 --> 01:06:04,559
if Toronto plays this a little differently, they're loaded with

1435
01:06:04,679 --> 01:06:08,760
future firsts. They're super you know, Scottie Barnes and everybody

1436
01:06:08,800 --> 01:06:11,360
else is like under twenty or you know, there there's

1437
01:06:11,400 --> 01:06:15,519
a scenario where they really are rebuilding and weighed against

1438
01:06:15,639 --> 01:06:18,440
what they look like now, which is like probably not

1439
01:06:18,480 --> 01:06:21,039
a bottom four team, but also probably not more than

1440
01:06:21,079 --> 01:06:24,480
like a lucky playing entrant. They're like dangerously close. It's

1441
01:06:24,519 --> 01:06:27,280
like more promising than a Chicago Bulls or previous like

1442
01:06:27,440 --> 01:06:30,960
Washington Wizard's middle. But it's kind of a middle situation

1443
01:06:31,159 --> 01:06:34,679
right now, and I don't know if there's massive upside

1444
01:06:34,719 --> 01:06:36,199
to get you know, oh, it's gonna be a top

1445
01:06:36,239 --> 01:06:37,960
four team in the East in a couple of years,

1446
01:06:38,360 --> 01:06:40,719
and it's going to be really hard for them to

1447
01:06:40,800 --> 01:06:44,599
maximize their lottery equity. So I think, I mean, we

1448
01:06:44,760 --> 01:06:46,639
grated them about as harshly as possible.

1449
01:06:46,719 --> 01:06:48,559
Speaker 1: Well here, I'll people are pay.

1450
01:06:48,480 --> 01:06:51,079
Speaker 2: Now and that's almost a problem, if that makes sense, right.

1451
01:06:51,119 --> 01:06:55,679
Speaker 1: They're weirdly like they're being reactive rather than proactive. It's

1452
01:06:55,679 --> 01:06:57,480
just not hurting them. It's just like they were trying

1453
01:06:57,480 --> 01:06:59,039
to say, oh, are we better than expected, and no,

1454
01:06:59,119 --> 01:07:00,800
we're going to react to it. It seems like they're

1455
01:07:00,840 --> 01:07:02,639
kind of doing the same thing leading into this year.

1456
01:07:02,920 --> 01:07:06,000
But here's here's what they basically so they turned Fred

1457
01:07:06,079 --> 01:07:12,800
van fleet Ogian and Obi and Pascal Siakam into Emmanuel Quickly, RJ.

1458
01:07:12,960 --> 01:07:17,800
Barrett Ochak, Boji, Kelly Olinick, Jacoby Walter. They have that

1459
01:07:17,880 --> 01:07:20,480
other first round pick from Indiana in twenty twenty six.

1460
01:07:21,199 --> 01:07:22,880
Who am I forgetting there is like sort of the

1461
01:07:22,880 --> 01:07:27,320
meat and potatoes of that Bruce Brown and Bruce Brown.

1462
01:07:27,920 --> 01:07:29,960
So just like and could because I mentioned I have

1463
01:07:30,039 --> 01:07:32,119
Bojie and Olinic because they used one of those picks

1464
01:07:32,159 --> 01:07:34,159
that they got from Indy as part of that trade

1465
01:07:34,159 --> 01:07:37,400
to get them. That's objectively bad asset management.

1466
01:07:37,639 --> 01:07:41,199
Speaker 2: Yeah right, it looks and especially measured against had you

1467
01:07:41,280 --> 01:07:44,280
traded one or two or even all three of those

1468
01:07:44,280 --> 01:07:47,639
guys much closer to peak value, like you could be

1469
01:07:47,679 --> 01:07:51,360
sitting on six or eight future firsts, you know, a

1470
01:07:51,400 --> 01:07:53,800
couple of young guys that might have cornerstone potent. Like

1471
01:07:53,840 --> 01:07:56,440
you know, it's it's hard to be it's hard to

1472
01:07:56,440 --> 01:07:59,239
be totally fair when you're weighing against you're comparing, like,

1473
01:07:59,280 --> 01:08:01,360
well they hype ath could have had this, We don't

1474
01:08:01,400 --> 01:08:03,480
really know, but like I think we had a pretty

1475
01:08:03,480 --> 01:08:05,599
good idea of like what Ogn and Ob could have

1476
01:08:05,599 --> 01:08:07,880
gotten had they traded him at a certain point. Same

1477
01:08:07,920 --> 01:08:11,559
with Siakam. They just it maybe it's still an F.

1478
01:08:11,639 --> 01:08:14,000
I don't know, because I think that I talk about it,

1479
01:08:14,039 --> 01:08:16,239
the more concerned I am that they are like a

1480
01:08:16,319 --> 01:08:17,000
little stuck.

1481
01:08:17,600 --> 01:08:20,479
Speaker 1: It's still and I mean the dark Ariakovic higher might

1482
01:08:20,520 --> 01:08:22,199
be like the thing that's saving it from an F.

1483
01:08:22,199 --> 01:08:24,439
I'm gonna stick with an F. Where are the Raptors

1484
01:08:24,520 --> 01:08:26,359
fans at though that we're telling us Red van Vleet

1485
01:08:26,359 --> 01:08:27,479
was additioned by subtraction?

1486
01:08:27,760 --> 01:08:30,359
Speaker 2: Oh my god, the argument would be, was there in

1487
01:08:30,399 --> 01:08:31,880
the last five years, Fred van Vleet?

1488
01:08:31,920 --> 01:08:33,880
Speaker 1: How about that? The other thing too, is like I

1489
01:08:33,880 --> 01:08:36,680
guess you could make the case if they let fev walk,

1490
01:08:37,039 --> 01:08:39,399
did that unlock Scotty bars of some capacity? And I

1491
01:08:39,479 --> 01:08:41,159
just I'm not going to buy that. So and and

1492
01:08:41,159 --> 01:08:42,560
by the way, if you were making the argument that

1493
01:08:42,600 --> 01:08:45,920
he was additioned by subtraction, that was wrong. So that

1494
01:08:46,000 --> 01:08:47,920
we had a ton of Raptors fans that were just

1495
01:08:48,239 --> 01:08:50,520
making that argument, so not painting it with broad brush.

1496
01:08:50,560 --> 01:08:53,600
But that response was I couldn't believe it. I still

1497
01:08:53,640 --> 01:08:57,439
can't believe it, because hey, it was wrong. Our next

1498
01:08:57,439 --> 01:09:02,119
team up as we changed divisions here your Chicago Bulls.

1499
01:09:02,279 --> 01:09:04,039
I called them your Chicago Bulls when we were doing

1500
01:09:04,079 --> 01:09:05,920
the twenty twenty three offseason grades. I think it's only

1501
01:09:06,000 --> 01:09:08,800
right that they remained your Chicago Bulls. Oh, they resigned

1502
01:09:08,960 --> 01:09:11,760
Nikola Vucevic to a three year, sixty million dollar deal

1503
01:09:11,760 --> 01:09:14,399
that does not decline in salary. I highlighted not on

1504
01:09:14,439 --> 01:09:17,319
the screen because still couldn't just do anything right with that.

1505
01:09:17,680 --> 01:09:20,359
Traded twenty twenty six and twenty twenty seven seconds to

1506
01:09:20,439 --> 01:09:23,239
Washington for Julian Phillips, the number thirty five pick. Re

1507
01:09:23,319 --> 01:09:26,159
signed Kobe White for three years thirty six million, signed

1508
01:09:26,199 --> 01:09:29,319
Javon Carter three years nineteen point five million player option

1509
01:09:29,399 --> 01:09:31,760
on that final season, signed Tory Craig do a two year,

1510
01:09:31,800 --> 01:09:34,199
five point four million dollar deal, had a player option

1511
01:09:34,279 --> 01:09:36,520
for this coming season that he picked up. They resigned

1512
01:09:36,560 --> 01:09:39,239
Io de soon MoU for three years twenty one million dollars.

1513
01:09:40,119 --> 01:09:42,960
That was the meat and potatoes of their offseason. Grant.

1514
01:09:43,039 --> 01:09:46,000
We were I believe we were pretty not check. We

1515
01:09:46,359 --> 01:09:48,079
didn't hate it, but I gave them a C minus

1516
01:09:48,079 --> 01:09:49,600
and you might have hated it. You gave the Bulls

1517
01:09:49,640 --> 01:09:51,000
a D plus.

1518
01:09:51,319 --> 01:09:56,079
Speaker 2: Yeah, overall, direction not our favorite. The Vooch deal. I

1519
01:09:56,239 --> 01:10:00,239
just you know, you're probably just better with the cap

1520
01:10:00,279 --> 01:10:02,479
space as opposed to having him on the roster. Andre

1521
01:10:02,600 --> 01:10:04,279
Drummond was better than him for a good chunk of

1522
01:10:04,319 --> 01:10:07,479
last year and he's gone anyway now. Didn't move to

1523
01:10:07,600 --> 01:10:12,680
Rosen basically, you know, didn't get much of consequence for him.

1524
01:10:13,119 --> 01:10:14,560
I don't know if you want to start with, like

1525
01:10:14,880 --> 01:10:15,960
do we go down the La.

1526
01:10:16,000 --> 01:10:17,920
Speaker 1: Colvinion who was in the rumor mill at the time

1527
01:10:17,960 --> 01:10:20,640
in these grades, and then like that whole season, his

1528
01:10:20,720 --> 01:10:23,239
tost season was torpedoed and his trade value was right

1529
01:10:23,279 --> 01:10:23,880
along with it.

1530
01:10:24,399 --> 01:10:27,479
Speaker 2: Odds are you're getting You're probably not giving up a

1531
01:10:27,479 --> 01:10:30,680
first rounder to trade Zach Lavine last offseason, so that

1532
01:10:30,720 --> 01:10:31,319
looks worse.

1533
01:10:31,840 --> 01:10:34,239
Speaker 1: So ironically though, they did sign two of the best

1534
01:10:34,279 --> 01:10:35,600
deals in the NBA right now.

1535
01:10:35,600 --> 01:10:38,239
Speaker 2: I'm getting to like Kobe White and de soun MoU

1536
01:10:38,520 --> 01:10:42,119
are just those are phenomenal value signings. I mean, if

1537
01:10:42,159 --> 01:10:44,239
you really want to just shit on everything you say, well,

1538
01:10:44,279 --> 01:10:45,880
those are going to be way too low to extend

1539
01:10:45,880 --> 01:10:47,880
off of. So these guys are going to hit unrestricted

1540
01:10:47,960 --> 01:10:51,000
pree at some point anyway, So good job signing value guys.

1541
01:10:51,039 --> 01:10:53,800
You're gonna lose them. I'm not saying that I could.

1542
01:10:53,560 --> 01:10:56,079
Speaker 1: Just this is like that's the same level. Where so

1543
01:10:56,159 --> 01:10:57,800
like the Knicks with Isaiah Harts, I was like, well,

1544
01:10:57,840 --> 01:10:59,840
why wouldn't they just given him a three year deal

1545
01:11:00,000 --> 01:11:01,680
because they didn't know he was going to turn into

1546
01:11:01,760 --> 01:11:04,520
like like a borderline all defense got for them. It

1547
01:11:04,560 --> 01:11:04,960
is a.

1548
01:11:04,880 --> 01:11:07,920
Speaker 2: Weird I mean, it doesn't that seem like a problem

1549
01:11:08,119 --> 01:11:10,119
a little bit like in the way.

1550
01:11:09,840 --> 01:11:12,159
Speaker 1: This there's a problem with the way this league is.

1551
01:11:14,199 --> 01:11:17,039
Speaker 2: If you, I guess from the player's perspective, it's like,

1552
01:11:17,159 --> 01:11:19,880
you shouldn't signing a below market something that turns out

1553
01:11:19,880 --> 01:11:22,600
to be a blow market deal should not like hurt you.

1554
01:11:23,359 --> 01:11:25,000
I don't know, it seems to hurt the team if

1555
01:11:25,000 --> 01:11:27,760
you make one of these really good decisions. So those

1556
01:11:27,800 --> 01:11:31,479
two things, the discumer and the White deals are obvious,

1557
01:11:31,600 --> 01:11:37,159
like unabashed, like unquestioned positives. It's just it's still the

1558
01:11:37,239 --> 01:11:40,840
overall direction sucks and like it just it doesn't make

1559
01:11:40,880 --> 01:11:42,680
sense and I don't like it. So I'm gonna just

1560
01:11:42,760 --> 01:11:45,319
stay at a D plus because I don't feel any

1561
01:11:45,319 --> 01:11:47,439
better about the Bulls today than I did a year ago.

1562
01:11:47,960 --> 01:11:49,560
Speaker 1: Do you feel I'm gonna stick with a SE minus

1563
01:11:49,560 --> 01:11:51,279
because I don't feel any worse, and I still think

1564
01:11:51,319 --> 01:11:54,279
even though Javon Carter in play, well, I don't have

1565
01:11:54,359 --> 01:11:57,840
a problem with that decision. It's the Bulls's view of

1566
01:11:57,920 --> 01:12:02,520
themselves is so bad that it then taints everything else

1567
01:12:02,520 --> 01:12:04,840
that they're doing. Because all of this, with the exception

1568
01:12:04,880 --> 01:12:07,239
of White and too Soon move like it's wrong because

1569
01:12:07,279 --> 01:12:10,680
it shouldn't vibe with the direction the I mean, I

1570
01:12:10,720 --> 01:12:12,239
might bump them down to a D just because I

1571
01:12:12,239 --> 01:12:14,840
still don't understand, like the Julian Phillips move. I'm not

1572
01:12:14,840 --> 01:12:18,560
gonna lie, but I just it's in. What it comes

1573
01:12:18,640 --> 01:12:21,800
down to is because none of these moves are actively damaging,

1574
01:12:21,880 --> 01:12:24,359
even the ones that you don't like. It's just even

1575
01:12:24,399 --> 01:12:26,159
the foods Steele, It's all right, it's already there's only

1576
01:12:26,199 --> 01:12:28,079
two years left, like I'll be an expiring contract a

1577
01:12:28,159 --> 01:12:30,840
year from now. But they just continue to be so

1578
01:12:31,039 --> 01:12:34,920
disconnected from reality. And like I don't feel worse about

1579
01:12:34,960 --> 01:12:37,479
their direction, I guess you might feel a little bit

1580
01:12:37,479 --> 01:12:40,079
better because it seems like with the Rosen Gone with Cruso, God,

1581
01:12:40,079 --> 01:12:42,760
they're prioritizing the long term, but they also did that

1582
01:12:42,880 --> 01:12:44,720
you ended up by not moving either of those guys

1583
01:12:44,800 --> 01:12:46,520
last summer. You how many first round picks they got

1584
01:12:46,520 --> 01:12:46,840
for them?

1585
01:12:47,000 --> 01:12:51,279
Speaker 2: Grant let me count, let me oh right, yeah, none.

1586
01:12:51,039 --> 01:12:53,039
Speaker 1: They got Josh Giddy who Let's say he ends up

1587
01:12:53,039 --> 01:12:55,640
working out, congratulations, and we're gonna give him max money,

1588
01:12:55,840 --> 01:12:59,039
like if the thing imagine like giving up Alex Caruso

1589
01:12:59,079 --> 01:13:01,520
for the right to give Josh getting nine figures or

1590
01:13:01,600 --> 01:13:03,399
let him ride it out to restricted free He hasn't

1591
01:13:03,399 --> 01:13:05,760
played a minute for you yet, and that's what you

1592
01:13:05,840 --> 01:13:09,000
acquired at this moment. Is you either to let it

1593
01:13:09,039 --> 01:13:11,439
leak out in a restricted free agency or to just

1594
01:13:11,479 --> 01:13:13,880
give him a nine figure extension right now? Just this

1595
01:13:14,000 --> 01:13:19,560
organization is awful. They f for like just existentially, I

1596
01:13:19,560 --> 01:13:21,920
feel like they need to get an F. But I

1597
01:13:22,239 --> 01:13:26,279
think a C minus is just like or just because

1598
01:13:26,319 --> 01:13:28,479
the contracts in the Vacuum were all fine except to

1599
01:13:28,520 --> 01:13:30,760
vouch one, like the moves are all fine. I would

1600
01:13:30,840 --> 01:13:33,800
argue that dissum Wu and I now wonder if I'm

1601
01:13:33,800 --> 01:13:35,960
being too hard because like White and Dissumu in fury,

1602
01:13:36,000 --> 01:13:38,560
if you're willing to pay them beyond this contract, like

1603
01:13:38,600 --> 01:13:42,239
those are two that can fit a rebuilding iteration and

1604
01:13:42,279 --> 01:13:44,880
beyond of the Bulls. I'm still just gonna stick with

1605
01:13:44,880 --> 01:13:48,359
a C minus because there's at We've we saw the

1606
01:13:48,439 --> 01:13:51,119
Chicago Bulls, same movie over and over again enough to

1607
01:13:51,159 --> 01:13:53,920
know that like this was gonna end in disaster. They

1608
01:13:53,960 --> 01:13:56,439
continuously have the opportunity to get out in front of it,

1609
01:13:57,000 --> 01:13:57,840
and they didn't.

1610
01:13:58,760 --> 01:14:03,560
Speaker 2: I just think like the ripple effects are still so profound,

1611
01:14:03,600 --> 01:14:06,600
because I mean, just resigning Vucavis is crazy. But but

1612
01:14:06,680 --> 01:14:11,119
like they do seem to have like they were trying

1613
01:14:11,119 --> 01:14:13,520
to trade Zach Levine right by all accounts, and it's

1614
01:14:13,560 --> 01:14:17,159
just they so like somewhere in there are the right

1615
01:14:17,239 --> 01:14:20,159
instincts I guess, of like, Okay, we clearly just can't

1616
01:14:20,159 --> 01:14:22,680
have this player at this contract on the roster anymore.

1617
01:14:23,279 --> 01:14:25,600
And then they go in so it's like okay, good, oh, progress,

1618
01:14:25,640 --> 01:14:27,600
We're ready now, and but then they wait too long.

1619
01:14:27,680 --> 01:14:30,199
Under Rosen, they trade Caruso without getting picks back, and

1620
01:14:30,239 --> 01:14:32,640
it's just like, are you guys ever gonna just just

1621
01:14:32,800 --> 01:14:36,319
really just go for it? And I yeah, so okay,

1622
01:14:36,399 --> 01:14:39,520
let's let's move on. I'm like just getting frustrated.

1623
01:14:40,039 --> 01:14:41,439
Speaker 1: I don't think this team is gonna make you as

1624
01:14:41,520 --> 01:14:43,119
upset the Cleveland Cavaliers.

1625
01:14:43,319 --> 01:14:46,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, all right, let's see is this me I'll I'll

1626
01:14:46,000 --> 01:14:46,319
take it?

1627
01:14:46,800 --> 01:14:47,359
Speaker 1: Uh So?

1628
01:14:47,680 --> 01:14:50,239
Speaker 2: Signed George Niang three years, twenty five point five. The

1629
01:14:50,279 --> 01:14:52,039
big move was getting Max Druce on the sign and

1630
01:14:52,079 --> 01:14:55,279
trade from the Heat four years for sixty four. Drafted

1631
01:14:55,319 --> 01:14:59,560
him Ony Baits, signed Isa Mobley, Craig Porter Junior, Carsel

1632
01:14:59,600 --> 01:15:01,920
vert Back two years, thirty two million, Ty Jerome two

1633
01:15:02,000 --> 01:15:08,079
for five. That's pretty much it. We were high on this,

1634
01:15:08,199 --> 01:15:10,920
but I think maybe you listened back. It had to

1635
01:15:10,960 --> 01:15:13,159
have been a lot about didn't have a ton of

1636
01:15:13,199 --> 01:15:15,640
options and really made the most of them and got

1637
01:15:15,680 --> 01:15:18,560
a guy and Struce who theoretically was going to fill

1638
01:15:18,640 --> 01:15:21,600
that you know, that three spot. Not ideal, but the

1639
01:15:21,640 --> 01:15:23,680
best they sort of could have done based on what

1640
01:15:23,760 --> 01:15:25,920
was out there. Right, That's it. That seems like what

1641
01:15:25,920 --> 01:15:26,600
we would have said.

1642
01:15:27,319 --> 01:15:29,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, it is what we said. We liked the we

1643
01:15:30,119 --> 01:15:31,720
We were torn on the George and Yang deal, which

1644
01:15:31,760 --> 01:15:34,399
I would argue looks worse now, especially because now that

1645
01:15:34,439 --> 01:15:36,560
you've kind of found out different things about your front court.

1646
01:15:36,880 --> 01:15:40,279
But both the Mobiley and Craig Porter Junior deals, like

1647
01:15:40,399 --> 01:15:43,520
Craig Porter Junior specifically was mission critical, might be a

1648
01:15:43,520 --> 01:15:45,359
little bit strong, like during some of their more injury

1649
01:15:45,399 --> 01:15:47,439
probe periods that dude was getting minutes, and he was

1650
01:15:47,479 --> 01:15:50,000
steering the offense, and he was making shots, he was

1651
01:15:50,039 --> 01:15:53,479
playing ferocious defense. I gave him a B plus at

1652
01:15:53,479 --> 01:15:56,920
the time. I think I'm inclined to stay the same

1653
01:15:57,079 --> 01:15:59,800
just because I feel worse about the Nyang deal net

1654
01:15:59,840 --> 01:16:03,279
New still on the Charrislavert stuff. But I like the

1655
01:16:03,279 --> 01:16:05,520
shrew Steel still and like I said, the like even

1656
01:16:05,520 --> 01:16:08,479
the baits Pick I think is still a good flyer.

1657
01:16:08,840 --> 01:16:11,760
And then the specifically to get Craig Porter Junior like

1658
01:16:11,800 --> 01:16:13,319
and what he ended up meaning for you, even for

1659
01:16:13,439 --> 01:16:16,000
that brief stretch is kind of a home run. I'm

1660
01:16:16,000 --> 01:16:18,760
gonna stick with a B plus. And also if you

1661
01:16:18,840 --> 01:16:20,680
wanted to, I think you could go higher just because

1662
01:16:20,680 --> 01:16:22,760
of what you said before, where it's they didn't have

1663
01:16:23,039 --> 01:16:24,640
a ton of options at their disposal.

1664
01:16:25,119 --> 01:16:28,560
Speaker 2: I think like just as a general rule, anytime someone

1665
01:16:28,600 --> 01:16:30,560
you sign on a two way contract is in the

1666
01:16:30,600 --> 01:16:33,560
news cycle for a decent period of time for the

1667
01:16:33,640 --> 01:16:36,520
right reasons, that's a home run. Just like if the

1668
01:16:36,560 --> 01:16:38,840
fact that they got anything and like they really didn't

1669
01:16:38,880 --> 01:16:41,520
need him for a I mean a decent stretch.

1670
01:16:43,399 --> 01:16:45,199
Speaker 1: Oh, I'm sorry, but I'm wondering if I'm being too

1671
01:16:45,199 --> 01:16:47,359
I'm interjecting because like this is how my mind works.

1672
01:16:47,800 --> 01:16:50,600
I just just not destroyed. I gotta stop speaking in

1673
01:16:50,640 --> 01:16:54,159
hyperbole about myself. I just criticized the Heat because they

1674
01:16:54,159 --> 01:16:57,520
don't have enough of these like middle sub middle salaries

1675
01:16:57,520 --> 01:16:59,640
to move and like George Niang, is that where the

1676
01:16:59,680 --> 01:17:02,279
teams WHOA that deal is awful. We won't take that on.

1677
01:17:02,439 --> 01:17:04,600
So maybe I'll bump them to an A minus just

1678
01:17:04,600 --> 01:17:06,960
because again the lack of resources to end up really

1679
01:17:07,000 --> 01:17:10,520
just reorienting your rotation this much and having some looking

1680
01:17:10,520 --> 01:17:12,960
at character burd and then looking at George Niggs salary

1681
01:17:13,000 --> 01:17:15,359
filler if you want to make a mid season move.

1682
01:17:16,479 --> 01:17:19,760
So I'll go a minus, which is weird because they

1683
01:17:19,760 --> 01:17:22,039
did not have a good season relative to expectations. But

1684
01:17:22,119 --> 01:17:24,760
I think that was more about Honestly, I just think

1685
01:17:24,800 --> 01:17:26,840
it was more about injuries Darius Garland getting hit in

1686
01:17:26,880 --> 01:17:27,760
the face than right.

1687
01:17:28,479 --> 01:17:30,760
Speaker 2: That's the thing I'm struggling with a couple issues. I

1688
01:17:30,800 --> 01:17:32,680
started a little higher with an A minus. I don't

1689
01:17:32,680 --> 01:17:34,319
think I'm going I can't get to a flat A

1690
01:17:35,119 --> 01:17:37,760
but one. Just all the injuries up and down the

1691
01:17:37,800 --> 01:17:39,720
roster make it really hard, Like maybe this team would

1692
01:17:39,720 --> 01:17:41,760
have won like fifty eight games or something if the

1693
01:17:41,800 --> 01:17:43,720
whole gang had been healthy for the whole year and

1694
01:17:43,760 --> 01:17:47,000
had time to gel and Darius Garland was himself. I guess,

1695
01:17:47,039 --> 01:17:50,159
like with Struce, I do, I still think that's just

1696
01:17:50,199 --> 01:17:52,319
the best you were gonna do with the with the

1697
01:17:52,319 --> 01:17:55,840
flexibility you had. I still am left feeling like they

1698
01:17:56,159 --> 01:17:59,479
need somebody at that position that's just better, maybe bigger,

1699
01:17:59,600 --> 01:18:01,439
maybe a better defender, rangier.

1700
01:18:02,880 --> 01:18:05,840
Speaker 1: Like so you're criticizing them for not figuring out how

1701
01:18:05,840 --> 01:18:06,920
to trade for og Ananobi.

1702
01:18:07,479 --> 01:18:10,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, right, Can we criticize all twenty nineteens for that? Yeah? No,

1703
01:18:10,720 --> 01:18:12,920
I I I think I think I'll just stay at

1704
01:18:12,920 --> 01:18:17,680
an A minus because I do think like if the

1705
01:18:17,720 --> 01:18:19,920
Cavs underwhelmed last year, which by the way, they won

1706
01:18:19,960 --> 01:18:22,800
a playoff series, which they didn't the year before, I think,

1707
01:18:22,840 --> 01:18:26,039
if I'm remembering that right, yeah.

1708
01:18:25,039 --> 01:18:27,239
Speaker 1: They lost to your New York Knicks, I'm just assigning

1709
01:18:27,319 --> 01:18:30,680
every team. You know, that's a lot of teams, I think.

1710
01:18:31,760 --> 01:18:34,039
Speaker 2: Yeah, I I can't really get away from the logic

1711
01:18:34,319 --> 01:18:37,039
defending the Strue signing. And he was fine, Like he

1712
01:18:37,119 --> 01:18:38,800
wasn't it wasn't like, oh my god, what are we

1713
01:18:38,800 --> 01:18:40,239
going to do with this guy? He was the dead

1714
01:18:40,239 --> 01:18:41,680
wrong pick. It's not it's not that.

1715
01:18:41,720 --> 01:18:44,880
Speaker 1: So yeah, maybe I'll stick with the learning a lot. Yeah,

1716
01:18:44,960 --> 01:18:47,760
I think B plus relative B plus A minus area

1717
01:18:47,800 --> 01:18:49,960
relative to the resources that were I now I'm gonna

1718
01:18:49,960 --> 01:18:51,560
stick with the go up to an A minus. So

1719
01:18:51,600 --> 01:18:53,840
a minus is across the board for both of us.

1720
01:18:54,399 --> 01:18:56,000
We will not be giving out an A minus this

1721
01:18:56,039 --> 01:19:01,119
time around. We get to the Detroit Pistons, Buddy, is

1722
01:19:01,119 --> 01:19:01,960
this my team or you're.

1723
01:19:01,840 --> 01:19:04,680
Speaker 2: A team yours? Take them? I don't want them, Well.

1724
01:19:04,560 --> 01:19:06,279
Speaker 1: I have I can't take them because I let the

1725
01:19:06,319 --> 01:19:08,840
thing go too long. But here we go. They drafted

1726
01:19:08,840 --> 01:19:11,800
A sar Thompson at number five. They were part of

1727
01:19:11,800 --> 01:19:14,640
the James Naji Trickle Effect brands, where they traded number

1728
01:19:14,640 --> 01:19:17,560
thirty one and seconds in twenty twenty five and twenty

1729
01:19:17,680 --> 01:19:20,439
twenty six. For number twenty seven Marcus Sasser. They took

1730
01:19:20,479 --> 01:19:24,079
on Joe Harris plus the MAVs twenty twenty seven second

1731
01:19:24,119 --> 01:19:26,720
and the Bucks twenty twenty nine second, So that was

1732
01:19:26,760 --> 01:19:29,039
to eat the Joe Harris money. They traded a most

1733
01:19:29,079 --> 01:19:32,359
favorable twenty twenty seven second to the Wizards for Monte Morris.

1734
01:19:33,399 --> 01:19:35,399
They signed Isaiah Stewart as the other bag into a

1735
01:19:35,399 --> 01:19:38,760
four year, sixty million dollar extension. It's a flat rate

1736
01:19:38,840 --> 01:19:40,600
and then the final year is a team option, so

1737
01:19:40,680 --> 01:19:45,560
only three guaranteed seasons. On that. They also hired Monty

1738
01:19:45,560 --> 01:19:48,479
Williams and they gave him the bag six years a

1739
01:19:48,560 --> 01:19:51,640
trillion dollars. He did not want to take the job,

1740
01:19:52,159 --> 01:19:55,319
but Tom Gores basically, I guess begged him but threw

1741
01:19:55,359 --> 01:19:56,199
someone had him.

1742
01:19:56,520 --> 01:19:57,199
Speaker 2: Yes you do.

1743
01:19:57,960 --> 01:20:00,680
Speaker 1: He had to take him, and I grant. Do you

1744
01:20:00,720 --> 01:20:02,640
know what we said about that at the time. Would

1745
01:20:02,640 --> 01:20:03,520
you like to know what we said?

1746
01:20:03,560 --> 01:20:05,520
Speaker 2: I bet We were like, hey, wait to go get

1747
01:20:05,560 --> 01:20:07,399
the guy right, do what it takes.

1748
01:20:07,800 --> 01:20:12,520
Speaker 1: We were basically like we were so high on them

1749
01:20:12,520 --> 01:20:14,239
to be like, wow, this is like a commitment to

1750
01:20:14,319 --> 01:20:16,399
like getting and they knew that this doesn't affect the

1751
01:20:16,399 --> 01:20:18,399
Caps and just go out there, identify your guy and

1752
01:20:18,439 --> 01:20:21,159
get him. Uh we man, I don't even want to

1753
01:20:21,159 --> 01:20:24,199
say these grades out loud. We both gave a's and

1754
01:20:24,319 --> 01:20:27,319
you know what happened after we gave them. Lazarus Jackson,

1755
01:20:27,479 --> 01:20:30,439
a Detroit bad Boys had messaged me saying I was

1756
01:20:30,439 --> 01:20:32,399
shocked that you and Grant were high on the Pistons

1757
01:20:32,399 --> 01:20:36,720
offseason as you were a year later. So am I why.

1758
01:20:36,560 --> 01:20:38,680
Speaker 2: Did we do this? Like I can't believe I was.

1759
01:20:38,720 --> 01:20:40,319
I can't believe there's two flat.

1760
01:20:40,399 --> 01:20:44,800
Speaker 1: Oh, so we imagine if I just I'm trying to

1761
01:20:44,840 --> 01:20:46,720
test how well you remember, and we really gave him

1762
01:20:46,720 --> 01:20:50,479
an afrom just but so we loved we loved the RSR.

1763
01:20:50,560 --> 01:20:54,239
Thompson pick they still do right, and we loved what

1764
01:20:54,279 --> 01:20:56,880
they did with Monty Williams, but like that's the c

1765
01:20:57,119 --> 01:20:59,000
and we were just like, oh, they didn't do anything

1766
01:20:59,039 --> 01:21:01,840
to short circuit their position, and so we were giving

1767
01:21:01,840 --> 01:21:04,920
them credit for that. And we thought Monte Morris was

1768
01:21:04,960 --> 01:21:06,720
gonna come in kind of open up the floor and

1769
01:21:06,720 --> 01:21:09,319
make things easier on everybody else. But we could not

1770
01:21:09,359 --> 01:21:11,680
have predicted that Jay Knivey was gonna get buried behind

1771
01:21:11,760 --> 01:21:14,880
Killian Hayes under Monty Williams. We could not predict that.

1772
01:21:14,960 --> 01:21:17,479
Just like I don't know how to phrase this delicately,

1773
01:21:17,560 --> 01:21:21,520
but they would just have very little control over what

1774
01:21:21,680 --> 01:21:23,880
Jalen Duran wanted to do on the offensive end last

1775
01:21:23,920 --> 01:21:25,720
year at some point, like he you look at some

1776
01:21:25,760 --> 01:21:28,119
of the possessions that he had. I understand it was

1777
01:21:28,159 --> 01:21:30,560
a function of the personnel or lack there of around him,

1778
01:21:30,600 --> 01:21:35,359
but my god, it really seems like the Monty Williams

1779
01:21:35,439 --> 01:21:38,359
higher and then letting Troy Weaver be the one to Like,

1780
01:21:38,399 --> 01:21:40,960
I don't know how much of that was just Gores

1781
01:21:41,520 --> 01:21:44,079
versus Gore's end Weaver, and so it's like if Weaver

1782
01:21:44,119 --> 01:21:46,760
didn't really factor into that then, but to not get

1783
01:21:46,840 --> 01:21:48,760
rid of Weaver sooner when you were gonna end up

1784
01:21:48,800 --> 01:21:50,239
doing it anyway and be in a position where you

1785
01:21:50,279 --> 01:21:52,199
had to not just turn over the front office but

1786
01:21:52,239 --> 01:21:53,680
get you know, allow them to get rid of a

1787
01:21:53,680 --> 01:21:56,840
coach that you gave just a billion dollars. I don't

1788
01:21:56,920 --> 01:21:59,319
think you know, Marcus Sasser, if you were hoping for

1789
01:21:59,399 --> 01:22:01,079
kind of a back up point guard type, that's not

1790
01:22:01,119 --> 01:22:03,079
what he is. But he was I was. I said

1791
01:22:03,079 --> 01:22:05,119
this to Las recently. I think I just became to

1792
01:22:05,159 --> 01:22:07,119
a namor that he was someone who was hitting threes

1793
01:22:07,279 --> 01:22:09,159
off the catch on a team that just didn't have

1794
01:22:09,159 --> 01:22:12,039
anyone like that. I'm gonna go out on a limb

1795
01:22:12,039 --> 01:22:15,840
and say, this is not an a off season for them.

1796
01:22:16,079 --> 01:22:18,319
I just don't know what to go down to because

1797
01:22:19,159 --> 01:22:21,000
I still like the SR Like if you were in

1798
01:22:21,000 --> 01:22:24,119
the same spot again, knowing what you know, like there's

1799
01:22:24,159 --> 01:22:26,359
no one even within that range that you reason like

1800
01:22:26,640 --> 01:22:29,800
profiles is a reasonable alternative. You could say, Okay, Pods

1801
01:22:29,880 --> 01:22:33,119
or Jaime Hawkes might have been better off Rip, but like,

1802
01:22:33,199 --> 01:22:36,640
long term, I'm still taking ro but you might take

1803
01:22:36,680 --> 01:22:39,600
Pods over them for sure. But like Asar, Thompson is

1804
01:22:39,640 --> 01:22:43,159
still has the it's not just having the top five mestique,

1805
01:22:43,199 --> 01:22:44,479
Like we could look back and say, yeah, this is

1806
01:22:44,520 --> 01:22:46,039
one of the five best players of the draft class

1807
01:22:46,079 --> 01:22:46,399
for sure.

1808
01:22:46,640 --> 01:22:49,359
Speaker 2: No, he's why this can't be an f even though

1809
01:22:49,399 --> 01:22:52,960
everything attached to the Monty Williams just what felt like

1810
01:22:53,119 --> 01:22:55,760
sabotage at certain points with all the killing and Hayes stuff,

1811
01:22:55,760 --> 01:22:58,520
like that's all F level for sure, But Tom but

1812
01:22:58,640 --> 01:23:02,039
Thompson I still, I mean we're talking like I get

1813
01:23:02,079 --> 01:23:03,840
I get it. There's arguments for other guys in the draft.

1814
01:23:03,960 --> 01:23:07,600
You you cannot convince me that there's anybody that went after

1815
01:23:07,760 --> 01:23:11,279
him that definitely has more upside, like just and which

1816
01:23:11,479 --> 01:23:13,600
in the Piston's position that still is kind of what

1817
01:23:13,720 --> 01:23:15,760
you should be after is just how good could this

1818
01:23:15,800 --> 01:23:18,199
guy be if he hits like his hundredth percentile outcome.

1819
01:23:18,239 --> 01:23:22,199
I don't care about the floor even Joe Harris like,

1820
01:23:22,600 --> 01:23:24,960
I'm sure, well maybe you remember, I assume we liked

1821
01:23:24,960 --> 01:23:27,880
that and just like Able Reoch a couple seconds he

1822
01:23:27,960 --> 01:23:31,239
comes off anyway, that just was a miss. But I

1823
01:23:31,239 --> 01:23:35,600
don't feel like that's hugely consequential. It's but man, you

1824
01:23:35,720 --> 01:23:37,960
just know's got to wear it. Like the Manti Williams thing.

1825
01:23:38,359 --> 01:23:40,880
The only thing keeping this from an FS Thompson and

1826
01:23:41,000 --> 01:23:43,720
everything else, the Monti Williams thing in particular, like this is.

1827
01:23:43,760 --> 01:23:47,279
Speaker 1: Just a d off season to me, right, and it's

1828
01:23:47,319 --> 01:23:50,319
probably like closer to a like to misread the situation

1829
01:23:50,520 --> 01:23:53,640
that much is just it's bad. And the other thing

1830
01:23:53,680 --> 01:23:57,520
we did not listening back criticize them enough for was

1831
01:23:57,600 --> 01:24:00,880
just kind of like perpetual perpetuating this. Why is there

1832
01:24:01,199 --> 01:24:04,560
nine trillion bigs on the roster And it's okay they

1833
01:24:04,560 --> 01:24:07,680
didn't get as married to the dual big setup, I

1834
01:24:07,680 --> 01:24:10,800
think as we were kind of worried about you had,

1835
01:24:10,840 --> 01:24:13,239
But it was also just like using Stuart too much

1836
01:24:13,239 --> 01:24:15,279
at Power Forward at the end of the day, and

1837
01:24:15,319 --> 01:24:17,880
as soon as you got Simony von Takio around the

1838
01:24:17,920 --> 01:24:21,760
trade deadline, like he comes in and it's, oh my god, like,

1839
01:24:22,119 --> 01:24:23,680
look at what this can do for us? And then

1840
01:24:23,720 --> 01:24:27,079
also we probably should have been more critical of like

1841
01:24:27,159 --> 01:24:29,399
why it was boy On mcdonovich on the team for

1842
01:24:29,439 --> 01:24:33,039
as long as he was, like not making those moves sooner.

1843
01:24:33,199 --> 01:24:36,039
So I'm gonna go down to a this is all

1844
01:24:36,079 --> 01:24:37,960
based on money, willingerspace. I'm gonna go down to a

1845
01:24:38,039 --> 01:24:41,600
D D minus area. I just don't not a banner

1846
01:24:41,600 --> 01:24:44,520
off season for them. This next team had a much

1847
01:24:44,520 --> 01:24:45,039
better off.

1848
01:24:45,000 --> 01:24:49,920
Speaker 2: Season than the Pistons indeed did any better. So traded

1849
01:24:50,079 --> 01:24:52,680
number eight blaw clubally to Washington for number nine. Jeris

1850
01:24:52,680 --> 01:24:55,800
Walker got a twenty thirty second via Sacramento out of that.

1851
01:24:56,079 --> 01:24:59,840
Ben Sheppard at twenty six traded Strawther, Pickett and Mohave

1852
01:25:00,079 --> 01:25:02,960
King and cash and a twenty four first least favorable

1853
01:25:03,000 --> 01:25:06,600
from like fifteen different teams. Yeah, I don't know, I

1854
01:25:06,640 --> 01:25:08,119
don't know why I even read that one. Let's see

1855
01:25:08,119 --> 01:25:11,680
any anything other got off of Chris Duarte to the

1856
01:25:11,760 --> 01:25:15,119
Kings for a twenty twenty What I.

1857
01:25:15,239 --> 01:25:19,039
Speaker 1: Okay, I just what were they like? Like I thought

1858
01:25:19,119 --> 01:25:20,800
the Kings like, oh, look at what Duarte did with

1859
01:25:20,800 --> 01:25:22,600
sa bonus at one point, let's kind of recapture that,

1860
01:25:22,640 --> 01:25:24,279
and I just know that's not and then we're going

1861
01:25:24,359 --> 01:25:26,760
to have to He became filler in the Derosan trade,

1862
01:25:26,760 --> 01:25:28,079
but they give up what you did for him with

1863
01:25:28,159 --> 01:25:28,760
that ended up.

1864
01:25:28,760 --> 01:25:31,359
Speaker 2: This is not not the worst, not the worst logic really,

1865
01:25:31,479 --> 01:25:35,079
but it just totally did not work out. So this

1866
01:25:35,159 --> 01:25:37,239
is laid down the list. But signed Bruce Brown two

1867
01:25:37,319 --> 01:25:39,600
years forty five, much to the Nuggets chagrin, although they

1868
01:25:39,640 --> 01:25:42,159
probably knew that there was just no way to retain

1869
01:25:42,239 --> 01:25:44,479
him a team option on twenty four to twenty five.

1870
01:25:44,520 --> 01:25:47,239
He is a Toronto Raptor now via the Siakam trade,

1871
01:25:48,359 --> 01:25:50,840
got to Obi toppin trading the least favorable of a

1872
01:25:50,880 --> 01:25:53,560
couple of seconds in twenty eight and twenty nine. I

1873
01:25:53,640 --> 01:25:57,880
like your note linked to Pascal Siakam. That link connected eventually,

1874
01:25:57,880 --> 01:26:01,600
but not an offseason move. So, Dan, we very much

1875
01:26:01,720 --> 01:26:05,359
enjoyed the Indiana Pacers offseason work. Uh and they made

1876
01:26:05,359 --> 01:26:08,680
the Eastern Conference Finals. Injuries factored into that, but they

1877
01:26:08,760 --> 01:26:12,960
had their own injury issues. I mean, so you had

1878
01:26:13,000 --> 01:26:14,960
an A minus, I had an A. We're just in

1879
01:26:15,000 --> 01:26:16,840
love with the Central Division and it's you.

1880
01:26:16,800 --> 01:26:20,199
Speaker 1: Know why my existed why, as I said, they should

1881
01:26:20,199 --> 01:26:21,520
have just kept pull out cool of BALI I'm not

1882
01:26:21,600 --> 01:26:23,239
taking Javis Walker. You know how I feel a year

1883
01:26:23,319 --> 01:26:25,359
later the exact same way.

1884
01:26:25,840 --> 01:26:29,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, I would say, so, okay, so we're up really high.

1885
01:26:29,840 --> 01:26:32,720
That means we've got to look if we're doing anything,

1886
01:26:32,760 --> 01:26:36,600
we're we're reducing this grade. I'm not seeing other than

1887
01:26:36,640 --> 01:26:40,000
the Kolabali move. I'm not seeing a ton of reasons

1888
01:26:40,000 --> 01:26:41,600
here to be critical.

1889
01:26:42,279 --> 01:26:44,079
Speaker 1: There's actually more of a case to move it up

1890
01:26:44,159 --> 01:26:46,600
because you end up using look at what you do

1891
01:26:46,720 --> 01:26:48,760
so number twenty nine, you turn that into a first

1892
01:26:48,960 --> 01:26:51,680
and you also sign Bruce Brown two components that you

1893
01:26:51,840 --> 01:26:53,960
used in the Pascal Siakham trade, which looks like a

1894
01:26:53,960 --> 01:26:56,159
home run for you. And while we don't love the

1895
01:26:56,159 --> 01:26:59,279
OPI topping contract to get him for the value that

1896
01:26:59,319 --> 01:27:01,880
you did, you probably even feel better about that. I'm

1897
01:27:01,880 --> 01:27:05,039
sticking with an A minus specifically because I think Jarvis

1898
01:27:05,079 --> 01:27:08,039
Walker is still very much TBD. But like, if I'm

1899
01:27:08,079 --> 01:27:10,399
this team and I think it was clear or at

1900
01:27:10,439 --> 01:27:13,640
least semi clear in the moment, blab Coolabali would have

1901
01:27:13,640 --> 01:27:15,239
maybe made more sense, or if you were really like

1902
01:27:15,279 --> 01:27:18,279
trying to groom like kind of a combo. Like a

1903
01:27:18,720 --> 01:27:21,840
combo Big is more of a perimeter defender. Taylor Hendrix

1904
01:27:22,119 --> 01:27:24,600
would have made more sense there. I guess you could

1905
01:27:24,680 --> 01:27:27,199
use not that this is a cop out. We're not

1906
01:27:27,239 --> 01:27:30,039
gonna say, oh Likejimy Hawkins wasn't on the radar here,

1907
01:27:30,279 --> 01:27:32,840
but you could say, those are really the two players

1908
01:27:32,840 --> 01:27:34,279
that I just named before, those are the only two

1909
01:27:34,359 --> 01:27:36,560
like real alternatives. And it's okay, well one of those

1910
01:27:36,560 --> 01:27:41,600
alternatives you actively traded, so I'll stick with an A minus.

1911
01:27:41,680 --> 01:27:44,000
I think it was mostly a brilliant off season from them.

1912
01:27:44,000 --> 01:27:47,239
And look, that's not to say like I still believe

1913
01:27:47,239 --> 01:27:48,640
I think if Pacers fans are at the point where

1914
01:27:48,640 --> 01:27:50,600
they kind of believe in Jarvis Walker's offense more than

1915
01:27:50,640 --> 01:27:53,359
his defense, which based off what we've seen, is probably fair.

1916
01:27:53,600 --> 01:27:55,600
I'm still a big believer in his defense. I just

1917
01:27:55,600 --> 01:27:57,960
don't understand the theory of him on this team anymore.

1918
01:27:58,119 --> 01:28:00,800
And I will say we both mentioned this at the

1919
01:28:00,800 --> 01:28:03,640
time liking Ben Sheppard. I like him better now some

1920
01:28:03,720 --> 01:28:06,079
of the things that we saw him do defensively than

1921
01:28:06,119 --> 01:28:06,880
we did at the time.

1922
01:28:07,479 --> 01:28:10,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'll just I guess I'll just stay well, you

1923
01:28:10,359 --> 01:28:13,399
know what slight demerit because I do like Coolabali better

1924
01:28:13,399 --> 01:28:15,199
than Jaris Walker at this point, so I'll go to

1925
01:28:15,239 --> 01:28:17,800
an A minus, which is still a fantastic great.

1926
01:28:18,680 --> 01:28:22,359
Speaker 1: Yeah, great offseason by them, but we read great, great

1927
01:28:22,399 --> 01:28:24,760
analysis by us to recognize it in real time though,

1928
01:28:24,760 --> 01:28:27,560
because that didn't happen with some of these teams. Our

1929
01:28:28,000 --> 01:28:33,000
final team, yeah, the Milwaukee Bucks. They fired Mike Budenholzer

1930
01:28:33,039 --> 01:28:37,079
and hired Adrian Griffin. That was apparently Giannis Attenthakupo's preferred choice.

1931
01:28:37,239 --> 01:28:40,239
They drafted Chris Livingston at number fifty eight and signed

1932
01:28:40,279 --> 01:28:43,880
him to four years and seven point six million dollars.

1933
01:28:44,399 --> 01:28:47,920
The first two seasons are guaranteed. Traded in twenty twenty

1934
01:28:48,000 --> 01:28:50,439
thirty second and cash to Orlando for number thirty six

1935
01:28:50,479 --> 01:28:52,720
Andre Jackson Junior. They get a plus plus from that

1936
01:28:52,840 --> 01:28:55,159
for Grant. Re signed Chris Middleton to a three year,

1937
01:28:55,279 --> 01:28:58,279
ninety three million dollar deal it escalates and has a

1938
01:28:58,279 --> 01:29:00,479
player option on the final season and nine point three

1939
01:29:00,479 --> 01:29:04,039
million in likely incentives. They resigned Brook Lopez after adalliance

1940
01:29:04,079 --> 01:29:05,960
with Houston, on a two year, forty five million dollar

1941
01:29:06,039 --> 01:29:08,439
deal that declines in year two, which he's entering now.

1942
01:29:08,680 --> 01:29:11,560
Sign a Malik Beasley one year minimum, resigned Jay Crowder

1943
01:29:11,600 --> 01:29:14,239
on a one year minimum, resigned to NASA Sutent Tokupo

1944
01:29:14,279 --> 01:29:16,800
because how could you not? Resigned aj Green to a

1945
01:29:16,840 --> 01:29:19,319
three year, six pointy three million dollar deal with non

1946
01:29:19,359 --> 01:29:22,439
guarantees in the final two seasons this though Grant was

1947
01:29:22,520 --> 01:29:25,640
not a part of our grade. They traded Drew Holliday,

1948
01:29:25,960 --> 01:29:28,800
a twenty twenty eight and twenty thirty first round swaps

1949
01:29:29,600 --> 01:29:31,880
and a twenty twenty nine first round pick for one

1950
01:29:32,439 --> 01:29:37,319
Damian Lillard, and they were not considered like they had

1951
01:29:37,319 --> 01:29:39,960
been mentioned tangentially, but they were not considered a primary

1952
01:29:39,960 --> 01:29:42,960
destination at the time. You gave him a B plus

1953
01:29:43,039 --> 01:29:45,359
I gave them an A for their offseason. There's a

1954
01:29:45,439 --> 01:29:47,840
lot of things to reconsider here.

1955
01:29:48,520 --> 01:29:50,319
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, the first is what do you do with

1956
01:29:50,399 --> 01:29:52,840
the Dame trade? Because I mean, you were really high

1957
01:29:52,920 --> 01:29:54,720
on what they did, and I think that's by the way,

1958
01:29:55,000 --> 01:29:58,479
just you know again minimum signing caveat. Malik Beasley really

1959
01:29:58,479 --> 01:30:00,960
mattered for them on a minimum like he started.

1960
01:30:01,119 --> 01:30:04,079
Speaker 1: He defended why didn't they put a team option on

1961
01:30:04,119 --> 01:30:05,359
the back end of that though that they could have

1962
01:30:05,399 --> 01:30:07,000
kept him for ANST year. Should we demerit them?

1963
01:30:07,079 --> 01:30:10,520
Speaker 2: For that, I'm gonna just go if that's positive. I mean,

1964
01:30:10,560 --> 01:30:13,800
the Middleton and Lopez deals, those guys are both you know,

1965
01:30:13,880 --> 01:30:17,159
looking a little worse for wear, But that was just

1966
01:30:17,359 --> 01:30:20,039
what she had to pay, right to keep those guys around.

1967
01:30:20,079 --> 01:30:22,319
And there really wasn't a scenario where you're gonna quibble

1968
01:30:22,640 --> 01:30:24,720
or you're gonna like go test the mark and see

1969
01:30:24,720 --> 01:30:26,600
what happens. Lopez kind of did that and ended up

1970
01:30:26,600 --> 01:30:29,439
coming back. So I mean, I can't I can't move

1971
01:30:29,479 --> 01:30:31,760
down for that. The question is do you move them

1972
01:30:31,800 --> 01:30:35,000
down for the Dame trade that? That's what I'm wrestling with.

1973
01:30:35,399 --> 01:30:37,720
Speaker 1: So so quickly. On the Brook Lopez runt, he was

1974
01:30:37,720 --> 01:30:39,880
actually offered more money by Houston, and so maybe we

1975
01:30:39,880 --> 01:30:42,720
should view that more favorably. I have a I have

1976
01:30:42,720 --> 01:30:45,800
a question for you. It's basically same question you asking me.

1977
01:30:45,840 --> 01:30:49,039
But to day right now, would you still have made

1978
01:30:49,079 --> 01:30:50,319
the Damian Lillard trade if you're the.

1979
01:30:50,319 --> 01:30:54,520
Speaker 2: Bucks, I kind of think I would rather have Drew

1980
01:30:54,520 --> 01:30:58,760
Holliday than Damian Lillard, like full stop. Maybe maybe That's

1981
01:30:58,800 --> 01:30:59,359
where I'm at.

1982
01:30:59,760 --> 01:31:02,359
Speaker 1: I I would still make it. If the trade happens today.

1983
01:31:02,520 --> 01:31:05,920
I think they probably couldn't have anticipated maybe they could

1984
01:31:05,920 --> 01:31:07,680
have because of how late in the off season had happened.

1985
01:31:07,680 --> 01:31:09,720
But like Dame struggled off the court, we know this,

1986
01:31:10,159 --> 01:31:11,800
you wouldn't have looked like when you look at where

1987
01:31:11,840 --> 01:31:14,199
he struggled on the court, it's like, oh, he wasn't

1988
01:31:14,279 --> 01:31:17,199
hitting catch and shoot threes. Grant, that's not gonna happen forever.

1989
01:31:17,520 --> 01:31:20,199
I still think the peak of this team is going

1990
01:31:20,239 --> 01:31:21,880
to be higher with Damian Lillard than it could have

1991
01:31:21,920 --> 01:31:24,560
been with Drew Holliday, and so I still would have

1992
01:31:24,560 --> 01:31:26,079
made it. It's not as I don't know if it

1993
01:31:26,119 --> 01:31:27,800
was even a no brainer at the time. It's certainly

1994
01:31:27,800 --> 01:31:30,399
not a no brainer now. But at the very least,

1995
01:31:30,840 --> 01:31:33,439
I won't knock their grade for making that trade. If anything,

1996
01:31:33,520 --> 01:31:38,560
I'll applaud it because what happens after you acquired Damian Lillard.

1997
01:31:39,439 --> 01:31:40,840
Johannis recommits to you.

1998
01:31:41,000 --> 01:31:41,680
Speaker 2: That's true.

1999
01:31:41,960 --> 01:31:46,239
Speaker 1: That's so I think that's a big like plus for them. Again,

2000
01:31:46,319 --> 01:31:48,520
that wasn't part of the offseason, or it wasn't part

2001
01:31:48,560 --> 01:31:50,399
of our grades when we did it. Excuse me. So

2002
01:31:51,159 --> 01:31:53,880
I think the real thing to focus on here is

2003
01:31:53,920 --> 01:31:57,399
how badly they missed on the head coaching higher because

2004
01:31:58,000 --> 01:32:01,279
I want to know, like did Adrian Griffin come in

2005
01:32:01,520 --> 01:32:03,920
and say that he was gonna change all of their

2006
01:32:03,920 --> 01:32:06,239
defensive tenants to start the season in the Bucks, You're like,

2007
01:32:06,239 --> 01:32:08,720
you know what, this sounds like a really good idea.

2008
01:32:08,840 --> 01:32:12,359
No morez at the basket, Hell yeah, let's go for it.

2009
01:32:12,439 --> 01:32:19,119
Speaker 2: Isn't this just a good example of a franchise being

2010
01:32:19,159 --> 01:32:21,840
beholden to a superstar because you said it right? Griffin

2011
01:32:21,960 --> 01:32:26,399
was Gianni's pick, and Jannis re upping after Dame shows

2012
01:32:26,479 --> 01:32:29,520
up suggests that, like, maybe he said that's something we

2013
01:32:29,560 --> 01:32:33,159
ought to look into as well, and like the coaching

2014
01:32:33,199 --> 01:32:35,600
thing was a full on mistake. I do think there's

2015
01:32:35,640 --> 01:32:37,640
a discussion to be had about whether the Dame trade

2016
01:32:37,720 --> 01:32:40,399
was the right move and if you just didn't have

2017
01:32:40,479 --> 01:32:43,399
to think about what does Yiannis want? The problem is

2018
01:32:43,439 --> 01:32:46,199
like you are gonna do what Yannis wants no matter what,

2019
01:32:46,319 --> 01:32:50,119
and like every franchise in this position would would operate similarly.

2020
01:32:50,680 --> 01:32:55,079
It just seems like the results weren't great. I'm you

2021
01:32:55,159 --> 01:32:57,319
started higher than me, right, so I'm gonna go Okay,

2022
01:32:57,359 --> 01:32:59,520
I'm moving down from a B plus to a B

2023
01:33:00,359 --> 01:33:05,079
because my concerns with the Dame trade were that you

2024
01:33:05,119 --> 01:33:08,560
wouldn't necessarily get enough of an offensive and late game

2025
01:33:08,600 --> 01:33:12,159
boost to offset all of the holiday bonuses that come

2026
01:33:12,199 --> 01:33:15,640
with him that aren't quantifiable, along with his production. And

2027
01:33:15,680 --> 01:33:18,800
then the coaching thing was just like like, wouldn't if

2028
01:33:18,840 --> 01:33:21,720
you could just snap your fingers, you know, first round

2029
01:33:21,760 --> 01:33:24,880
embarrassments and all, wouldn't you just rather have Mike Budenholzer

2030
01:33:24,960 --> 01:33:27,119
than either Griffin or Doc Rivers at this point if

2031
01:33:27,159 --> 01:33:29,199
that were like a tenable situation.

2032
01:33:28,840 --> 01:33:30,920
Speaker 1: Like you would, right, Yeah, that's I don't even think

2033
01:33:30,920 --> 01:33:32,359
that's a question, to be honest with you.

2034
01:33:32,479 --> 01:33:34,199
Speaker 2: So it's for me, it's got to move down. I

2035
01:33:34,239 --> 01:33:36,319
just I think there's still a world where Dame is

2036
01:33:36,359 --> 01:33:38,479
back to himself this year, and and this looks like

2037
01:33:38,520 --> 01:33:41,199
a bad regrade. Maybe we should regrade our regrade at

2038
01:33:41,199 --> 01:33:41,560
some point.

2039
01:33:41,920 --> 01:33:43,720
Speaker 1: But to be fair, is like the problem with the

2040
01:33:43,800 --> 01:33:45,479
Dame trade is, at least right now in the moment,

2041
01:33:45,920 --> 01:33:48,000
it doesn't why I would still do it. It's a

2042
01:33:48,000 --> 01:33:50,600
c move like this is not like, well, they stole

2043
01:33:50,680 --> 01:33:52,279
Damian Lillard, no Portland.

2044
01:33:52,640 --> 01:33:55,880
Speaker 2: But the other thing is maybe by the way this

2045
01:33:55,880 --> 01:33:58,000
puts them in the position they're in, which is stuck

2046
01:33:58,119 --> 01:34:00,600
right second Apron no assets to try, how do we

2047
01:34:00,640 --> 01:34:02,840
get better, Like you're in a better position if you

2048
01:34:02,880 --> 01:34:06,520
have those picks and swaps and like Holiday's lower salary

2049
01:34:06,600 --> 01:34:09,119
right like that that's something to consider too. The overall

2050
01:34:09,119 --> 01:34:11,439
position the Bucks are in is just like thank god

2051
01:34:11,520 --> 01:34:14,479
Gary Trent, like blew it with Toronto or Toronto Blue

2052
01:34:14,479 --> 01:34:16,279
with him, and you get him on the minimum because otherwise,

2053
01:34:16,319 --> 01:34:18,760
like you can't make this team better or it's really

2054
01:34:18,800 --> 01:34:21,239
really hard. I think you're more flexible if you don't

2055
01:34:21,239 --> 01:34:22,199
do the Dame trade.

2056
01:34:22,399 --> 01:34:24,520
Speaker 1: By the way, the other thing too is not because

2057
01:34:24,520 --> 01:34:27,199
you wanted to keep it clandestine that he was involved

2058
01:34:27,239 --> 01:34:30,600
in trade talks, you couldn't control where Drew Holliday ended up,

2059
01:34:31,000 --> 01:34:33,319
which was on the Celtics, and while the Bucks weren't

2060
01:34:33,359 --> 01:34:37,239
healthy enough to really ever challenge them. I mean, how

2061
01:34:37,600 --> 01:34:39,279
like to get rid of Drew Hollie for Damian Lillverer,

2062
01:34:39,279 --> 01:34:41,800
but to have Holiday end up on what's just your

2063
01:34:41,800 --> 01:34:44,479
biggest rival in the conference by virtue of them being

2064
01:34:44,520 --> 01:34:47,199
the standard bearer for the East. I think I'm going

2065
01:34:47,199 --> 01:34:49,239
down to like a see a seat like the coach.

2066
01:34:49,399 --> 01:34:51,720
That's a huge miss on the coaching higher and when

2067
01:34:51,720 --> 01:34:54,039
you look at the other moves, it's Chris like Chris

2068
01:34:54,039 --> 01:34:56,159
Middleton now with the health stuff, just had surgery on

2069
01:34:56,199 --> 01:34:59,079
both ankles. Again, I think the deal is fine. Did

2070
01:34:59,119 --> 01:35:03,039
you win that Negotia as the team? No, brook Lopez did,

2071
01:35:03,119 --> 01:35:05,800
like you paid him less than Houston was willing to.

2072
01:35:06,199 --> 01:35:08,199
So it's like you look at okay, Jake Crowder does

2073
01:35:08,239 --> 01:35:11,439
nothing for you. Uh, I think the hits, like if

2074
01:35:11,439 --> 01:35:13,439
you go back and look at this, the one thing

2075
01:35:13,439 --> 01:35:14,960
that we can say, even though I would make the

2076
01:35:15,039 --> 01:35:19,279
Damian Lillard trade again, the only hit was Malik Beasley.

2077
01:35:19,359 --> 01:35:21,079
Was it not that you could just say that brook

2078
01:35:21,079 --> 01:35:23,560
Lopez and Chris Middleton were net neutral. So I'm gonna

2079
01:35:23,560 --> 01:35:26,720
go like, you fucked up the coaching higher pretty bad.

2080
01:35:27,159 --> 01:35:30,479
I just I'm gonna go. But you they honest aspect

2081
01:35:30,479 --> 01:35:30,920
of it too.

2082
01:35:31,359 --> 01:35:33,359
Speaker 2: So this is where I'm stuck because I want to go.

2083
01:35:33,479 --> 01:35:35,199
I'm with you in that like this feels like it

2084
01:35:35,239 --> 01:35:38,880
needs to drop a lot. But I'm really viewing the

2085
01:35:38,880 --> 01:35:42,640
the angle of Yannis said to do some stuff, and

2086
01:35:43,039 --> 01:35:46,039
you risk losing him if you don't do the stuff.

2087
01:35:46,239 --> 01:35:48,159
And I don't know if there's a front office that's

2088
01:35:48,159 --> 01:35:51,680
gonna say, like, let's play chicken and see how this goes, right, like,

2089
01:35:51,720 --> 01:35:54,359
I don't. I think they were kind of in a

2090
01:35:54,399 --> 01:35:57,119
lot of respects, like the bad decisions or the questionable ones,

2091
01:35:57,199 --> 01:35:59,039
or even like the dame one. That's like I don't know,

2092
01:35:59,119 --> 01:36:02,880
maybe maybe not. They didn't really have alternatives because I

2093
01:36:03,039 --> 01:36:06,239
just feel it feels like with a year behind us,

2094
01:36:07,000 --> 01:36:09,119
Jannis just kind of said, like, here's what's got to

2095
01:36:09,159 --> 01:36:10,840
happen if you want me to re sign, like or

2096
01:36:10,840 --> 01:36:12,960
if you want me to extend, and they just did

2097
01:36:13,000 --> 01:36:15,600
that those things. So it's like I give them a

2098
01:36:15,600 --> 01:36:17,319
little bit of grace for that because they were just

2099
01:36:17,359 --> 01:36:18,640
over a barrel to some extent.

2100
01:36:18,920 --> 01:36:21,399
Speaker 1: And I guess the other thing too, is what opportunity

2101
01:36:21,640 --> 01:36:24,199
the coaching thing is the one that's the anchor that

2102
01:36:24,279 --> 01:36:27,159
is just dragging them down, Like what other opportunities did

2103
01:36:27,199 --> 01:36:28,920
they Like, how did you want them to do better?

2104
01:36:28,960 --> 01:36:31,359
And if we're saying do better was not making the

2105
01:36:31,439 --> 01:36:33,760
Damian Lillard trade. That gets an iffy territory. I'm gonna

2106
01:36:33,760 --> 01:36:35,720
go to a state like that head coaching heart, that's

2107
01:36:35,720 --> 01:36:37,840
a that's a huge miss. They might deserve credit for

2108
01:36:37,880 --> 01:36:39,479
moving on as soon as they did, but they still

2109
01:36:39,520 --> 01:36:42,079
made the decision in the first place to do that.

2110
01:36:42,199 --> 01:36:44,399
Speaker 2: I'm I'm only gonna go down to I'll go down

2111
01:36:44,439 --> 01:36:47,079
to a B minus just because of the honest thing,

2112
01:36:47,159 --> 01:36:48,720
I just think they didn't really have a lot of

2113
01:36:48,760 --> 01:36:49,880
say in some of this stuff.

2114
01:36:50,520 --> 01:36:53,880
Speaker 1: Uh, I we did it, Brandon. How are you feeling

2115
01:36:53,960 --> 01:36:56,079
after going through that that regrace process?

2116
01:36:57,039 --> 01:37:00,600
Speaker 2: You know, the East was a little more booboo laden

2117
01:37:00,840 --> 01:37:03,800
on our part than the West. But I do think

2118
01:37:03,840 --> 01:37:09,000
we have everything back in order now. We don't we really,

2119
01:37:09,560 --> 01:37:12,720
it really would be like a scary, sicko thing to do.

2120
01:37:12,920 --> 01:37:15,359
But what if I really I jokingly said it, but like,

2121
01:37:15,399 --> 01:37:18,359
what if we regraded regrades next year?

2122
01:37:19,199 --> 01:37:21,880
Speaker 1: So I'll keep this. I will keep the doc that

2123
01:37:22,000 --> 01:37:24,640
if we want to regrade the twenty twenty three offseason

2124
01:37:24,720 --> 01:37:27,840
and start that as a bit like regrading the regrades

2125
01:37:28,119 --> 01:37:30,039
that might be if we end up having time on

2126
01:37:30,079 --> 01:37:32,960
our hands, I'll save it for it. But that I mean,

2127
01:37:33,199 --> 01:37:35,000
but it's fair to look at like some of these

2128
01:37:35,000 --> 01:37:36,680
moves are just like, well, this needs to play out

2129
01:37:36,720 --> 01:37:39,159
over the long Like a year isn't enough for most

2130
01:37:39,199 --> 01:37:42,840
of these moves for us to just have these definitive conclusions, especially.

2131
01:37:42,600 --> 01:37:44,680
Speaker 2: With draft picks involved, like we you know, but he's

2132
01:37:44,680 --> 01:37:47,520
gonna know anything about these guys with few exceptions until

2133
01:37:47,560 --> 01:37:50,359
they're like signing their extensions or whatever. It's just, it's

2134
01:37:50,439 --> 01:37:52,199
it's such a it's still just a guessing game for

2135
01:37:52,239 --> 01:37:52,800
a lot of it.

2136
01:37:53,840 --> 01:37:55,479
Speaker 1: The East took us longer than the West, which I'm

2137
01:37:55,479 --> 01:37:59,319
surprised about, but we had to We had to edit

2138
01:38:00,399 --> 01:38:03,439
some of our thoughts. Like there's a lot of walking

2139
01:38:03,479 --> 01:38:04,720
back in this podcast.

2140
01:38:04,720 --> 01:38:07,319
Speaker 2: That's all right when you're wrong. Are we good? Shall

2141
01:38:07,359 --> 01:38:08,039
I take us out?

2142
01:38:08,279 --> 01:38:09,439
Speaker 1: Yes? Please take us out.

2143
01:38:09,600 --> 01:38:13,279
Speaker 2: Thanks everybody for being with us on this journey towards accountability.

2144
01:38:14,199 --> 01:38:16,359
Check back in next year when we re regrade the

2145
01:38:16,359 --> 01:38:19,079
twenty twenty three off season and then regrade our twenty

2146
01:38:19,079 --> 01:38:21,760
four regrades. It'll be a lot of fun and not

2147
01:38:21,800 --> 01:38:24,760
at all confusing. If you haven't already rate, review, subscribe,

2148
01:38:24,800 --> 01:38:27,520
give us five stars, give us thumbs up, Get involved

2149
01:38:27,520 --> 01:38:29,800
in the YouTube conversation, comments on the videos and all

2150
01:38:29,840 --> 01:38:33,000
the short stands, posting, help the algorithm, love us, help

2151
01:38:33,039 --> 01:38:35,239
us grow the podcast. Tell your friends, tell your enemies.

2152
01:38:35,680 --> 01:38:37,960
Regrade your friends and enemies on a yearly basis, just

2153
01:38:38,039 --> 01:38:39,840
to kind of see where everybody stands. That would be

2154
01:38:39,880 --> 01:38:43,640
a fun exercise that certainly won't cost you friends, I

2155
01:38:43,640 --> 01:38:46,920
think that's gonna do it. Join our discord, check out

2156
01:38:46,920 --> 01:38:49,159
our merch links to the YouTube and podcast description and shouts.

2157
01:38:49,159 --> 01:39:00,840
Frank Miila Keina. Apologies, Jared Allen. This s