Speaker 1: Boxing has always been a brutal sport, one where injuries
Speaker 1: are unfortunately inevitable and careers can be cut short in
Speaker 1: an instant. In more recent years, steps have been taken
Speaker 1: to protect fighters from life altering damage, but when your
Speaker 1: job involves taking repeated blows to the head, safety can
Speaker 1: only go so far. Now, imagine the sport in the
Speaker 1: nineteen sixties, an era with fewer regulations, tougher fighters, and
Speaker 1: bitter rivalries. Add in personal insults, heated emotions, and two
Speaker 1: men with everything to prove it wasn't just another fight,
Speaker 1: it was personal, and in this case, it also turned deadly.
Speaker 1: This is the story one of the most infamous and
Speaker 1: tragic boxing matches in history. Benny Perett versus Emil Griffith
Speaker 1: the Third.
Speaker 2: My name's Ben, I'm Nicole and you're listening to Wicked
Speaker 2: and Grim, a true crime podcast.
Speaker 1: The following podcast material intend for a matual audience listener discretion.
Speaker 1: It's a bit of a different show today. Following up
Speaker 1: on last week's episode that was quite a brutal case,
Speaker 1: we are talking about another tragic story, but one where
Speaker 1: you can argue there may not have even been a
Speaker 1: crime committed at all.
Speaker 2: Okay, I'm intrigued.
Speaker 1: Are you?
Speaker 2: You got me intrigued?
Speaker 1: Color you intrigued? Yeah? What color would intrigued? Because you
Speaker 1: know they say green with envy? You know orange yellow
Speaker 1: is cowardly, so orange is envy? No or sorry intrigued?
Speaker 2: I was like, where the fuck did envy come from?
Speaker 1: I've lost my train anyways, So yeah, orange would be
Speaker 1: orange with intrigued with orange?
Speaker 2: Okay, that doesn't work. I don't know, I don't know.
Speaker 1: I think that's an outdated system anyways. But regardless, it's
Speaker 1: an interesting case. That was my point. But I also
Speaker 1: wanted to say one more thing before we really get
Speaker 1: into this case. It's a big old thank you to
Speaker 1: the people who subscribe and support us over on Patreon.
Speaker 1: And this week we had Amber Robinson, Jen Franzen, Tracy
Speaker 1: d Mallory, Kovalevski and Hassan all sign up and they're
Speaker 1: getting that good good access to Patreon. Steph that good, good,
Speaker 1: good good, you know, get all that good good. Oh man, Okay,
Speaker 1: what would you would you not describe it as good good?
Speaker 1: What would you describe it as well?
Speaker 2: Pretty good? We just did a pre show and we
Speaker 2: talked about some shit we did. We talked about good
Speaker 2: I feel spaghetti meat Pauls. We talked about that we did,
Speaker 2: and how I'm off work right now, which not doing
Speaker 2: very interestingly. But yeah, they get a little bit more
Speaker 2: like deep dive into they know us more. I guess
Speaker 2: you could say, touche. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Plus they get that exclusive episode at the end of
Speaker 1: the month, which we got to figure out because that's
Speaker 1: coming up too.
Speaker 2: That is what date is it today? The seventeenth of
Speaker 2: March seventeenth. Oh for a minute there, I was like,
Speaker 2: is that the right month? Holy shit, I need to
Speaker 2: go back to work. My brain is not functioning.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we're almost three months into twenty twenty five. Let
Speaker 1: that reality sink in.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I had an existential crisis with that thought the other day.
Speaker 1: So did you really a little bit?
Speaker 2: I was like, holy fuck, Well, I feel like the
Speaker 2: beginning of the month sucks. Sorry, the beginning of the
Speaker 2: year sucks compared to the middle and end generally.
Speaker 1: I mean, summer is on its way, so we'll we'll
Speaker 1: enjoy twenty twenty five when the sun shining and it's
Speaker 1: nice and bol But for now, let's talk about this story,
Speaker 1: shall we. Let's do her so boxing in the nineteen
Speaker 1: fifties and the early nineteen sixties was one of the
Speaker 1: most exciting and popular sports in the world. It was
Speaker 1: known as the Golden Age of boxing, when fighters were
Speaker 1: seen as larger than life figures, Championship bouts were major
Speaker 1: national events, and boxing was deeply ingrained in American culture.
Speaker 1: The sport was at its peak, both in terms of
Speaker 1: public interest and the level of competition. The fighters were
Speaker 1: just outstanding. In the nineteen fifties. In particular, it was
Speaker 1: dominated by legendary fighters who were still are still celebrated today.
Speaker 1: The heavyweight division had Rocky Marciano, the undefeated champion who
Speaker 1: retired in nineteen fifty six with a perfect record of
Speaker 1: forty nine wins and zero losses. Not to mention this
Speaker 1: individual by the name of Rocky Marciano, he inspired the
Speaker 1: fictional character of Rocky Balboa, including his name and his
Speaker 1: fighting style. And just before we hit record in this episode,
Speaker 1: I said, this is a boxing episode, and Nicole's like,
Speaker 1: you mean like Rocky bal like Adrian, yeah, and you
Speaker 1: were referencing Rocky and I'm like, what do you mean Rocky,
Speaker 1: And You're like, h Balboa, like the only Rocky, And
Speaker 1: I'm like what about Rocky Marciano and you're like, no,
Speaker 1: Rocky Balboa. Rocky Marciano is the original Rocky. He inspired
Speaker 1: Rocky Balboa. So it was kind of funny that that happened,
Speaker 1: But I digress. In the lighterweight classes, fighters like Sugar
Speaker 1: Ray Robinson, considered by many to be the greatest boxer
Speaker 1: of all time, and Jake Lamota were huge draws. I
Speaker 1: don't know if I said Jake's last name right. I'm
Speaker 1: not a huge boxing individual so but regardless, During this era,
Speaker 1: boxer boxing was structured around the New York State Athletics
Speaker 1: Commission known as the NYSAC and the National Boxing Association
Speaker 1: n BA. Not what we know today is the end
Speaker 1: okay now. There were few weight divisions and only one
Speaker 1: world championship per division, making the title fights extremely prestigious.
Speaker 1: The sport was raw, it was brutal, and while they
Speaker 1: were rules in place, fights were often allowed to continue
Speaker 1: longer than they really honestly should have. This was also
Speaker 1: a time when boxing was deeply connected to organized crime.
Speaker 1: The mob had strong influence over many fighters. Managers, and
Speaker 1: even referees fixed fights. Shady dealings and pressure from promoters
Speaker 1: were actually fairly common, and fighters often had little control
Speaker 1: over their careers.
Speaker 2: Holy shit, just listening to that, I'm like, wow, things
Speaker 2: have changed. But then I'm also have they yeah, you know,
Speaker 2: you think they have. But then I think maybe people
Speaker 2: are just better at hiding it now.
Speaker 1: Probably now. By the nineteen fifties, television brought boxing into
Speaker 1: homes across America. Gillette's Friday Night Fights became a household event,
Speaker 1: showcasing some of the best boxers of all time. The
Speaker 1: exposure made boxing more lucrative, with more fighters getting the
Speaker 1: chance to compete for titles and earn national recognition. However,
Speaker 1: the increased number of televised fights also oversaturated the sport
Speaker 1: and led to more brutal matchups. Boxers were sometimes pushed
Speaker 1: to fight too, often taking more punishment than they should have,
Speaker 1: not even fully recovering before entering the ring.
Speaker 2: Once again, yikes.
Speaker 1: Now, back then, you know, it was like you good
Speaker 1: to go, sport, I got this, just let me add
Speaker 1: them right. Nowadays it's like doctor analyzes you. You get
Speaker 1: a cat scan, you get an MRI, and.
Speaker 2: It's like you cleared.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're concussed and you've got to be cleared. And
Speaker 1: it's like you're out for the next like two years
Speaker 1: like that sort of thing. They didn't really know back
Speaker 1: then the extent of these injuries like we do today.
Speaker 2: Oh yikes, that's not good.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and not to mention whether then you were not fighter.
Speaker 1: Safety wasn't much of a priority, so it was common
Speaker 1: for boxers to suffer long term health effects in their
Speaker 1: careers as a result.
Speaker 2: Well, the crowd probably went wild, like the more brutal
Speaker 2: you know, the matches got and stuff, right, So.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it gets exciting, right yeah. Now, one of these
Speaker 1: boxers in his golden era was a man by the
Speaker 1: name of Benny Peret. His nickname was Kid so Benny
Speaker 1: Kid Peret now Benny was born on March fourteenth, nineteen
Speaker 1: thirty seven in Santa Clara, Cuba. He grew up in
Speaker 1: a tough environment where money was scarce an opportunity was
Speaker 1: rather limited. Like many young men in his situation, he
Speaker 1: saw boxing as a way out. His journey into boxing
Speaker 1: was was shaped by more necessity rather than choice, let's say. Now,
Speaker 1: growing up in Santa Clara, he lived in poverty like
Speaker 1: many young men of his time, and life was tough.
Speaker 1: He had to work from an early age to help
Speaker 1: support his family. He didn't have the luxury school or
Speaker 1: former training any sort of profession, so we needed a
Speaker 1: way to make a living, and that's you know. Of course,
Speaker 1: when boxing came in, boxing was common. It was a
Speaker 1: common escape for Cubans who wanted to rise above their circumstances,
Speaker 1: and Benny was no exception. He first got into fight
Speaker 1: simply as a way to prove himself in rough neighborhoods,
Speaker 1: you know, and defending himself around where he grew up.
Speaker 1: But over time he realized he had a natural ability
Speaker 1: to take his hits and keep going. He was tougher
Speaker 1: than most, with an iron chin and relentless endurance. He
Speaker 1: started training at local gyms, learning the fundamental fundamentals, but
Speaker 1: he was never the most technical of fighters. What set
Speaker 1: him apart was his heart and his determination. Before long,
Speaker 1: he entered amateur competitions, fighting amongst other young Cuban boxers
Speaker 1: trying to make a name for themselves. His scrappy, aggressive
Speaker 1: style caught the attention of trainers and promoters alike. He
Speaker 1: had a natural toughness, toughness as I mentioned, and it
Speaker 1: made him really stand out amongst everyone He fought, and
Speaker 1: eventually he made the decision to turn professional now to
Speaker 1: truly make it into boxing, he knew he had to
Speaker 1: leave Cuba, so he relocated to New York City, where
Speaker 1: boxing was thriving, and quickly became or certain quickly began
Speaker 1: building his new career.
Speaker 2: Go Benny go eh.
Speaker 1: His work ethic and willingness to fight anyone that they
Speaker 1: put in front of him put him on a fast
Speaker 1: track to the top, and within a few years he
Speaker 1: was world champion.
Speaker 2: Oh wow.
Speaker 1: Yeah. It was on May twenty seventh, nineteen sixty that
Speaker 1: he achieved that dream, defeating Don Jordan to become the
Speaker 1: world welterweight champion. But in boxing's success is never guaranteed
Speaker 1: for long, and in April of nineteen sixty one, he
Speaker 1: would defend his title for the first time and fight
Speaker 1: a man named Emil Griffith, a talented and powerful fighter
Speaker 1: for the first time now. Emil Griffith was born on
Speaker 1: February third, nineteen thirty eight, in Saint Thomas, Us, Virgin Islands,
Speaker 1: one of eight children. His early life was marked by hardship, and,
Speaker 1: like many large families in the Caribbean at the time,
Speaker 1: there wasn't much money to go around. His mother, Emilda
Speaker 1: eventually left the Virgin Islands to find work within the
Speaker 1: country on the mainland of the United States, settling in
Speaker 1: the Big Apple itself, New York City. She planned to
Speaker 1: send for her children when she could, and eventually she did.
Speaker 1: She sent for a Meal when he was just twelve
Speaker 1: years old, to join her over in New York to
Speaker 1: start his new life. Now, when he arrived, he had
Speaker 1: no real direction. At first, he had no plans of
Speaker 1: becoming a boxer. In fact, he was more interested in
Speaker 1: fashion and design. He found work in a hat factory,
Speaker 1: shaping and steaming women's hats. However, fate would step in
Speaker 1: one day when his boss, Howie Albert, noticed Emial's athletic
Speaker 1: build amongst the workers. Albert, you see, was a boxing
Speaker 1: trainer on the side and thought the young man might
Speaker 1: have potential as a fighter given his frame. So one
Speaker 1: day he took a meal to a local gym, handed
Speaker 1: him a pair of gloves, and told him to try
Speaker 1: out boxing. A meal, always up for a challenge, went
Speaker 1: along with it, even though he wasn't sure if it
Speaker 1: was for him. He wasn't much of a fighter, but
Speaker 1: as soon as he got in the ring, it was
Speaker 1: clear he had something special. He was naturally fast, strong,
Speaker 1: and coordinated, with a powerful punch and a smooth, graceful
Speaker 1: movement that made him the fighter he would become. With
Speaker 1: no previous experience, he impressed trainers and quickly fell in
Speaker 1: love with the sport. Once he started training seriously, a
Speaker 1: Meal's raw talent turned into skill. He fought as an
Speaker 1: amateur boxer, learning the fundamentals and honing his technique. He
Speaker 1: even won the nineteen fifty eight New York's Golden Gloves Championship. Now,
Speaker 1: later that year he turned professional under the management of
Speaker 1: Howie and would become both his trainer and his mentor.
Speaker 1: In just three years, he went from a hat factory
Speaker 1: worker to a top contender in the world welterweight division.
Speaker 2: Holy in three years that seems like fast.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was a quick rise through the ranks, and
Speaker 1: yeah it would lead to a title shot. So this
Speaker 1: is by early nineteen sixty one, Benny Perett was at
Speaker 1: the top of the welterweight division. At this time, he
Speaker 1: had just won that title. Okay, he's now the welterweight champion.
Speaker 1: And he was tough, aggressive, and he never backed down
Speaker 1: from a challenge. And his next opponent was Emil Griffith
Speaker 1: as we talked about being a rising star, so he
Speaker 1: had a completely different style, faster and more technical impact,
Speaker 1: real knockout power. But both of them were real, real
Speaker 1: threats to each other. The fight began, but sorry. The
Speaker 1: fight between the two men was scheduled for April first,
Speaker 1: nineteen sixty one, at Miami Beach Conventional Hall. As a
Speaker 1: defending champion, Benny was confident, but many experts believed Meal
Speaker 1: had the tools to take him down. It seemed like
Speaker 1: a big match, and both men had their own skills
Speaker 1: and reasons why fans thought that they would be the victor. Now,
Speaker 1: the day finally came and the tension in the air
Speaker 1: was high as fans yelled from the stands and people
Speaker 1: turned on TVs and radios across the nation tuning in.
Speaker 1: Both men entered the ring and the match began with
Speaker 1: the ring of a bell. From the opening moments, it
Speaker 1: was clear that Emil had the edge on speed and skill.
Speaker 1: He moved around the ring smoothly, landing clean punches while
Speaker 1: staying out of Benny's reach. Now, Benny, true to his style,
Speaker 1: kept coming forward, trying to turn the fight into a slugfest,
Speaker 1: but Emil refused to let it happen. He stuck to
Speaker 1: his game plan, using sharp combinations and footwork to stay
Speaker 1: in control. As the rounds went on, Emil's punches started
Speaker 1: taking the toll on Benny, and by the thirteenth round,
Speaker 1: Benny was visibly slowing down and Emil saw his moment.
Speaker 2: The thirteenth round, Hey, that is just crazy. How many
Speaker 2: rounds are in boxing?
Speaker 1: Yes, it's wild.
Speaker 2: Oh the damage that you can do in that time.
Speaker 1: Now, he landed a massive right upper cup, snapping Benny's
Speaker 1: head back and sending him crashing to the canvas. The
Speaker 1: referee started the count. It was over. Benny couldn't get up.
Speaker 1: Emil Griffith had just won the fight by knockout and
Speaker 1: claimed his first world title. He was the welterweight champion now.
Speaker 1: Despite the loss, Benny wasn't one to back down. A
Speaker 1: rematch was immediately offered. On the night of the first match,
Speaker 1: or at least discussed. Emil's corner commended Benny as a
Speaker 1: fighter and his skill and said that they would welcome
Speaker 1: another bout between the two of them. Just six months later,
Speaker 1: on September thirtieth, nineteen sixty one, he officially challenged Emil
Speaker 1: again in a rematch at Madison Square Garden. This time, though,
Speaker 1: he fought a different fight, staying more composed and outworking
Speaker 1: a Meal out in the later rounds and after fifteen
Speaker 1: grueling rounds. This time, Benny would be the victor as
Speaker 1: he won the fight by split decision, reclaiming his title
Speaker 1: in a controversial decision that many believe a meal should
Speaker 1: have resulted in victory.
Speaker 2: Okay, So, but split decision means that some judges felt
Speaker 2: the other way, right.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm pretty sure. Again, I'm not a huge boxing individual,
Speaker 1: but I know, like mixed martial arts, there's usually three judges,
Speaker 1: so each judge scores about and then you know there's
Speaker 1: it's like best of three. Basically, two judges voted.
Speaker 2: For Benny and one exactly.
Speaker 1: That's split decision unanimous is all judges vote for the
Speaker 1: same person? Okay, Okay, Now, this is exactly what everyone
Speaker 1: in the boxing industry dreamed of, hyped up fighters on
Speaker 1: both like, you know, each side of the spectrum, different
Speaker 1: fighters they're both winning about and going into obviously what
Speaker 1: would be a third fight, right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well yeah, you have to talk like it's a
Speaker 2: tie right now.
Speaker 1: Really exactly and some people are saying, this guy should
Speaker 1: have won, and other people are like, well, this guy
Speaker 1: did win. You know, it's a line in the sand.
Speaker 1: It's a promoter's dream.
Speaker 2: A lot of money is being made.
Speaker 1: One hundred percent. So it's no surprise that since there was,
Speaker 1: you know, of course, this whole tension building up, that
Speaker 1: there would be a third match where everything would come
Speaker 1: to a head.
Speaker 2: Oh boy.
Speaker 1: They would meet again in March nineteen sixty two for
Speaker 1: the match, a fight that would go down in history. However,
Speaker 1: this time it would go down in history for all
Speaker 1: the wrong reasons. Now, we can't talk about the fight,
Speaker 1: that third fight between the two of them, without first
Speaker 1: identifying a few more events leading up to it. See,
Speaker 1: Benny entered the fight already worn down from an unusually
Speaker 1: ruling schedule. Just three months earlier, in December of nineteen
Speaker 1: sixty one, he had challenged Gene Fomer for the middleweight championship,
Speaker 1: which means he moved up a weight class, so he
Speaker 1: had to put on weight to fight this guy who
Speaker 1: was naturally bigger than him.
Speaker 2: Okay, I'm surprised that he would do that.
Speaker 1: This is something that fighters do. They changed weight classes
Speaker 1: and try for that other championship.
Speaker 2: Like I get that, but when you're kind of focusing
Speaker 2: on this other match, and I'm surprised they would have
Speaker 2: a fight in between. Yeah, is what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: Well, back in this day, you know what, that's what
Speaker 1: they did. Yeah, true, Now, Fuller sorry, Fulmer brutalized him.
Speaker 1: This is where he sits naturally. This is his weight class,
Speaker 1: his weight division, and he's the champion. So I mean
Speaker 1: he's bumping up to try and fight him and challenge him,
Speaker 1: and he got destroyed. He was stopped in the tenth
Speaker 1: round in a one sided beating. Yead of taking time
Speaker 1: off to recover from that, though, Benny immediately signed on
Speaker 1: to defend the welterweight title against a Meal. This meant
Speaker 1: he was still recovering from the damage that he'd taken
Speaker 1: against Fulmer in that middleweight fight, making him far more
Speaker 1: vulnerable than he'd been in previous fights.
Speaker 2: Shit, he needed more time in between.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Now. The tension between Benny and Emal also exploded
Speaker 1: on the night before their fight. So this is the
Speaker 1: weigh ins. They weigh in and sure they make their
Speaker 1: weight class. And this is what you know, Like the press,
Speaker 1: you don't take the photos they stamp face to face
Speaker 1: sort of thing, and when they stood face to face
Speaker 1: for that stare down, things reached a boiling point in
Speaker 1: tension that you could cut, probably with a spoon. Like seriously,
Speaker 1: Benny mocked Emial's masculinity, and in front of everyone called
Speaker 1: him quote marri con, probably butchering that it's a Spanish word,
Speaker 1: which is a homophobic Spanish slur. And though I do
Speaker 1: know condone the use of this word, I do feel
Speaker 1: it as imperative to this story to say it in
Speaker 1: its exact translation, to get the full understanding of what
Speaker 1: sort of slurry's being called and the state of mind
Speaker 1: when he was being called this. So for that reason
Speaker 1: I will be saying it marri Con means faggot.
Speaker 2: Oh okay, So Benny, Benny was the one that called
Speaker 2: a meal this a meal?
Speaker 1: This, yes, okay, and in front of press, in front
Speaker 1: of everybody, now.
Speaker 2: Like unnecessary, there's no reason for it. Really.
Speaker 1: Well, see, Emil had long been rumored to be bisexual
Speaker 1: and like a hyper masculine world of boxing. Not only that,
Speaker 1: but we are in the early nineteen sixties as well,
Speaker 1: when it's extremely frowned upon. This was seriously insulting. It
Speaker 1: was a pure demeaning act to say in front of everyone,
Speaker 1: and it enraged a Meal so so much so that
Speaker 1: he actually had to be held back from attacking Benny
Speaker 1: on the spot.
Speaker 2: But honestly just going to fire him up.
Speaker 1: Really well, it really did, because he wanted to fight
Speaker 1: him then and there, and he was looking forward to
Speaker 1: stepping in the ring. And Emial had every intention to
Speaker 1: punish Benny for what he said. And that is a
Speaker 1: quote directly from a Meal himself.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I mean like he insulted him. It kind
Speaker 2: of makes sense. I don't think that would have been
Speaker 2: in Benny's benefit whatsoever.
Speaker 1: I agree now. Promoters, of course took advantage and played
Speaker 1: up the bad blood between the two fighters, and Madison
Speaker 1: Square Garden was packed with thousands of fans eager to
Speaker 1: see the third match, the ultimate grudge match, take place
Speaker 1: between the two The fight was also broadcast live on
Speaker 1: national television, making it one of the most highly anticipated
Speaker 1: bouts of the year. When the bell rang for the
Speaker 1: first round between the two fighters, Benny was immediately exhausted.
Speaker 1: He had already been overworked, having fought five times in
Speaker 1: the past year alone, including the punishing loss to Folmer
Speaker 1: dang he was nowhere near the top of his game
Speaker 1: and in his mind, sorry, his mind and his body
Speaker 1: were just drained. But he was still determined to prove himself.
Speaker 1: He was still going to go out, and he was
Speaker 1: still determined to fight to his full extent and keep
Speaker 1: that belt under his name. A Meal, on the other hand,
Speaker 1: was focused and angry. He was still bitter about the
Speaker 1: split decision lost with their second fight, and now had
Speaker 1: a personal vendetta after the way in slurs being slung
Speaker 1: his way. A Meal came out sharp, landing quick punches
Speaker 1: while moving around the ring. Benny, however, was aggressive from
Speaker 1: the start, pushing forward and trying to rough a Meal
Speaker 1: up in the middle. Unlike their first two fights, where
Speaker 1: a Meal had dictated the pace early, this time, Benny
Speaker 1: seemed determined to set that tone and let Emil know
Speaker 1: he wasn't going to be backing down. By the third round,
Speaker 1: Benny managed to land a hard punch that stunned a Meal,
Speaker 1: forcing him to take a step back. The moment sent
Speaker 1: a surge of excitement through Madison Square Garden and the
Speaker 1: crowd as Benny appeared beginning the upper hand in what
Speaker 1: looked like a huge moment for the champion. A Meal
Speaker 1: fell against the ropes and Benny raised his hand as
Speaker 1: if celebrating a knockdown. However, the ref ruled it a
Speaker 1: slip and the fight continued. In the next few rounds,
Speaker 1: a Meal recovered quickly and started to take control. By
Speaker 1: round four, he was landing the cleaner and harder punches,
Speaker 1: using his footwork to avoid Benny's pressure. A Meal's strategy
Speaker 1: was clear, work the body, slow Benny down and look
Speaker 1: for opening to land powerful shots to the head. Benny,
Speaker 1: though still pressing forward, was beginning to slow and show
Speaker 1: signs of his fatigue his movements. His movements not as
Speaker 1: sharp as they were earlier in the fight. In round five,
Speaker 1: e Meal shots started snapping Benny's head back more frequently.
Speaker 1: Champion still had his signature toughness absorbing the blows, continuing
Speaker 1: to move forward and soak him up, but Emil's punches
Speaker 1: were having a clear effect. The challenger was landing a bigger,
Speaker 1: more effective amount of shots, and the tide of the
Speaker 1: fight was beginning to shift in his favor. By the
Speaker 1: sixth round, a Meal was firmly in control, His confidence
Speaker 1: was growing, and Benny was struggling to mount any real offense.
Speaker 1: The early fire Benny had shown seemed to be fading
Speaker 1: as Emil's precise, powerful punches were wearing him down. The referee,
Speaker 1: Ruby Goldstein, was already keeping a close eye in Benny,
Speaker 1: but at this stage he was still fighting back enough
Speaker 1: to keep the match going. As the fight entered the
Speaker 1: later rounds, Emil's trainer, Gil Clancy had a simple but
Speaker 1: ruthless instruction for him, keep throwing punches until Benny either
Speaker 1: grabbed hold of him or the referee forced him to
Speaker 1: break took that advice. In the twelfth round, Don Dumfy,
Speaker 1: calling the fight for ABC, noted how the slowing pace
Speaker 1: of the match had begun, quoting, this is probably the
Speaker 1: tamest round of the entire fight. But within seconds, that calm,
Speaker 1: that slow pace, that breath within the fight, it was shattered.
Speaker 1: Emil cornered Benny and unloaded a relentless storm of punches
Speaker 1: directly to his head. At first, Benny tried to defend himself,
Speaker 1: his gloves coming up in an attempt to block the
Speaker 1: incoming blows, but the force of Emal's punches left him reeling,
Speaker 1: his body sagging sideways against the ropes on his left
Speaker 1: hand side and his head and upper body slipping out
Speaker 1: of the ring. Emil, showing no sign of hesitation, kept
Speaker 1: Benny pinned in place with his left arm while his
Speaker 1: free hand continuously hammered his opponent with uppercuts directly to
Speaker 1: the head. Benny's arms still moved a case, but his
Speaker 1: head remained limp over the ropes. Referee Ruby Goldstein later
Speaker 1: explained that he had seen fighters lean out of the
Speaker 1: ring like this before to try and avoid clean shots
Speaker 1: being hit to them, almost like, you know, getting their
Speaker 1: head out of the way right right, So he has
Speaker 1: assumed Benny was doing the same, attempting to roll back
Speaker 1: into position, you know, escape these blows. And to quote
Speaker 1: him quote, I saw him get his head back into
Speaker 1: the ring twice, he recalled, convinced Benny was still aware
Speaker 1: enough to defend himself. That's what he believed now. Also,
Speaker 1: in Goldstein's defense, he was behind Emil as well, which
Speaker 1: means it's harder for him to get a clear view
Speaker 1: of exactly what's going on. I don't see many people
Speaker 1: talk about that when I was researching his case, but
Speaker 1: I do think watching the footage that that is a
Speaker 1: portion of this that we need to discuss.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so, not.
Speaker 1: Being able to get a clear look at his face,
Speaker 1: how fast this all happened, and assuming what he was
Speaker 1: trying to do culminated in this all occurring in slow motion,
Speaker 1: the brutal reality of the moment was clear. Emil landed
Speaker 1: twenty nine unanswered punches, each one slamming into Benny with
Speaker 1: increasing force. At ringside, Benny's manager, Manuel Alfarzo Alfaro was
Speaker 1: screaming for the fight to be stopped, but Goldstein never
Speaker 1: hurt him. It wasn't until Emil had unleashed nearly thirty
Speaker 1: consecutive punches that Goldstein, the referee, finally stepped in, pulling
Speaker 1: Emial away and stopping the fight.
Speaker 2: Holy shit, that's too much.
Speaker 1: In that moment, Emil was awarded a technical knockout victory.
Speaker 1: Benny was leaning against the ropes and didn't collapse immediately.
Speaker 1: He stood there for a brief moment, still kind of
Speaker 1: on his feet, head hanging over the ropes, and slowly
Speaker 1: slid back down to the floor, his body crumpling in exhaustion,
Speaker 1: or as so the announcers kept saying, in exhaustion, in exhaustion,
Speaker 1: as doctors and Benny's team rushed to his side. Emil
Speaker 1: celebrated his victory, raising his arms straight in the air,
Speaker 1: but within moments, Emil walked back over to check on
Speaker 1: Benny before announcers could even come over to talk to him.
Speaker 1: Emil was checking to see if he was okay, but
Speaker 1: he was quickly pushed away by those surrounding the fighter,
Speaker 1: urging him to give him space. Right the crowd, unaware
Speaker 1: of the full extent of Benny's injuries, cheered the new champion,
Speaker 1: and Benny was placed on a stretcher and carried out
Speaker 1: of the ring. Speaking with Don Dumfy in a post
Speaker 1: fight interview, Emil still had no idea what had happened
Speaker 1: to his fighter, his opponent to quote him, I'm proud
Speaker 1: to be the welterweight champion again, and he also said quote,
Speaker 1: I hope Perett is feeling good, but they won't tell
Speaker 1: me how he's doing. In that interview, they're asking him.
Speaker 1: They kind of showed like a slow motion replay and
Speaker 1: like asking him, you know, what's going on in your head?
Speaker 1: What are you doing? But you can see he's looking
Speaker 1: over at least at the very beginning before he kind
Speaker 1: of really gets into the interview, he's looking over at
Speaker 1: a meal or sort Benny laying on the ground in
Speaker 1: the corner, and he's genuinely concerned. You can see it
Speaker 1: in his face.
Speaker 2: Well, he's probably second guessing that maybe he went too
Speaker 2: far in like the heat of the moment.
Speaker 1: That's most likely what it was. Yeah, now, as the
Speaker 1: reality of the situation said in Emil tried to visit
Speaker 1: Benny at the hospital, but he wasn't allowed inside. Distraught,
Speaker 1: he ran through the streets, chased by insult from people
Speaker 1: blaming him from what happened, being you know, chased away
Speaker 1: from the hospital and everything. Benny Perett never regained consciousness.
Speaker 1: He slipped into a coma that night and died ten
Speaker 1: ten days later at Roosevelt Hospital in Manhattan. He was
Speaker 1: the victim of massive brain hemorrhaging caused by the relentless
Speaker 1: punishment he endured in the ring. Basically, he was beaten
Speaker 1: to death.
Speaker 2: Yeap, Because hitting in the head is fine hey in boxing.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, that's that's your target. It's what you're trying
Speaker 1: to do.
Speaker 2: Oh that it just seems so brutal, Like of course,
Speaker 2: shit's like I don't know, of course, shit can go wrong.
Speaker 2: It just seems so easy to think that it can,
Speaker 2: you know, but well.
Speaker 1: It definitely can, and you have to look at it objectively.
Speaker 1: And there is one argument that I've seen pointed out
Speaker 1: for boxing before in this topic, when compared to something
Speaker 1: like mixed martial arts like the UFC. For example, in
Speaker 1: the UFC, they knock someone out, it's done. If the
Speaker 1: guy's knocked down to the men and the referee sees
Speaker 1: him stumbling, it's done. The fights over, you have a winner,
Speaker 1: and this guy unfortunately you got knocked out in.
Speaker 2: Boxing, but you're not technically unconscious, correct, Okay.
Speaker 1: In boxing, same thing. You can be technically not unconscious,
Speaker 1: but you have ten seconds to get your shit back
Speaker 1: together and you can get back in there and keep fighting,
Speaker 1: which means you can be concussed yep, and they're sending
Speaker 1: you back in to fight again.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and then it can happen again like that. Just
Speaker 2: the damage, like your body can only take so much.
Speaker 2: And these these fighters, just listening to the story, they
Speaker 2: probably already have suffered so much like concussions through their career, right,
Speaker 2: and you can only have so many of them before
Speaker 2: you need to just be done with that sort of stuff.
Speaker 1: Right, exactly. So it's don't get me wrong. I understand
Speaker 1: the sport, and I understand the steps that they've taken to,
Speaker 1: you know, try and circumvent these sort of incidents in
Speaker 1: more modern times. But it's still dangerous because that's still present.
Speaker 1: You can still get knocked down, you can still get up,
Speaker 1: you can still have those compounding concussions over time and
Speaker 1: affecting you. It's just a reality of the sport. Unfortunately.
Speaker 2: Well yeah, I'm just the ten seconds to get up.
Speaker 2: That's just it almost gives you shivers, it does.
Speaker 1: Now. The third fight between Benny Perett and Emil Griffith
Speaker 1: remains one of the most controversial moments in boxing history
Speaker 1: to date. Many believe that Benny's tragic fate was sealed
Speaker 1: before he even stepped into the ring that night. As
Speaker 1: I mentioned, in the twelve months leading up to the fight,
Speaker 1: he had endured a brutal schedule, taking severe punishment in
Speaker 1: three fights, including his December nineteen sixty one loss to
Speaker 1: Gene Foehmer, where he was battered and stopped in the
Speaker 1: tenth round. Right, Some questioned whether he should have even
Speaker 1: been allowed to fight again so soon. The New York
Speaker 1: State Athletics Commission came under fire for giving his medical
Speaker 1: clearance despite the damage he had already taken. Now Referee
Speaker 1: Ruby Goldstein also was under fire. One of the you know,
Speaker 1: he was once one of the more respectable officials in
Speaker 1: the sport. He was also heavily criticized. Many believed he
Speaker 1: waited too long to stop that fight, allowing a Meal
Speaker 1: to land an uninterrupted barrage of punches before finally stepping in.
Speaker 1: And they say it was just too much. He should
Speaker 1: have done something sooner. In a nineteen sixty four interview,
Speaker 1: Goldstein defended his decision, saying quote, I've never blamed myself,
Speaker 1: but some people blame me for not stopping it sooner sooner.
Speaker 1: If the fight were happening right now, I wouldn't have
Speaker 1: stopped it sooner. Perett was a good, durable fighter. He'd
Speaker 1: look in trouble in the early rounds, but he'd come
Speaker 1: back to fire punches and win the round. He was
Speaker 1: the champion. You give the champion a chance to fight back.
Speaker 2: I wondered if he would be like kind of blaming
Speaker 2: himself for feel guilty in any way.
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm sure he felt guilty. He actually even
Speaker 1: was under fire for not visiting him in the hospital. However,
Speaker 1: it came out later that he was told he shouldn't
Speaker 1: go visit him in the hospital. He wanted to, like,
Speaker 1: you know, I want to go pay my respects, you know,
Speaker 1: see if he's okay to sit by his bedside whatever,
Speaker 1: and they're like no, you know, like people are already
Speaker 1: criticizing you. You should probably stay away from the situation
Speaker 1: sort of thing.
Speaker 2: Okay, but what you said something about he didn't have
Speaker 2: the best vantage point, right.
Speaker 1: That's what the that's my perspective of saying that. Most
Speaker 1: people don't talk about it, but I believe he may
Speaker 1: not have had the best vantage point.
Speaker 2: Could he have gotten a better one or not?
Speaker 1: Really? Because not really? Yeah, Okay, See it was like
Speaker 1: they're both in the corner, right, So he's got him
Speaker 1: in the corner and these barrages of punches are in
Speaker 1: the corner with his head laying outside the ring a bit,
Speaker 1: so he's behind, you know, the action going on, seeing
Speaker 1: a fighter's back and seeing the punches going in another
Speaker 1: fighter's face. He's trying to get a good look.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because you'd have to be outside to really see
Speaker 2: it full extent.
Speaker 1: And that's why being over the ropes yourself.
Speaker 2: That's why Benny's team was kind of like yelling at him, right.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Now. Some argued that Goldstein hesitated because of Benny's
Speaker 1: reputation for faking injury. He had been known to lure
Speaker 1: opponents and by acting hurt only to strike back, which
Speaker 1: is another thing that people do in boxing and martial
Speaker 1: arts sports alike.
Speaker 2: Shit, that's like, what is that the wolf thing?
Speaker 1: Cry wolf? Yeah, you're the boy who cried wolf.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Now. Others believe Goldstein was concerned that Benny's supporters in
Speaker 1: the crowd would actually riot if he stopped the fight
Speaker 1: too soon. This was actually a large concern at the time. Now,
Speaker 1: regardless of the reason, the delayed stoppage haunted Goldstein for
Speaker 1: the rest of his life. He suffered nightmares, severe insomnia, flashbacks,
Speaker 1: struggling with the weight of what had happened in the
Speaker 1: ring that night. Though the New York States Athletic Commission
Speaker 1: cleared him of any wrongdoing, Goldstein let his referee license
Speaker 1: expire and would never work another major fight. Now. He
Speaker 1: did attempt to come back in nineteen sixty four, officiating
Speaker 1: one last bout, but after that he retired for good.
Speaker 2: Okay, Well then you almost have to think it did
Speaker 2: affect him quite a bit then, more than I think
Speaker 2: he's letting on. It did to the press.
Speaker 1: What he stands by his decision, But he's also could
Speaker 1: I have done more? I think? Could I have seen more?
Speaker 1: Did I know exactly? Hindsight is twenty twenty, as they
Speaker 1: say now, The impact of the fight went beyond the
Speaker 1: individuals involved. The New York Governor Nelson Rockefeller launch an
Speaker 1: official investigation into boxing, forming a seven member commission to
Speaker 1: examine safety regulations in the sport. Over time, incidents like
Speaker 1: this contributed to the decline of boxing's popularity on network television.
Speaker 1: The sport, once a national spectacle, slowly faded from mainstream broadcast,
Speaker 1: and this fight became a symbol of boxing's darker side. Meanwhile,
Speaker 1: Emil faced intense backlash from Benny's fans. As you can imagine,
Speaker 1: many refused to believe that it was just an accident,
Speaker 1: convinced that Emil had intentionally beaten Benny to death. In
Speaker 1: the weeks and months that followed that fight, Emil endured
Speaker 1: verbal abuse, threats, and public shaming. Despite the overwhelming grief
Speaker 1: he himself carried over what had happened. The controversy surrounding
Speaker 1: the fight never truly faded, and even decades later, remains
Speaker 1: one of the most talked about sporting events in boxing now.
Speaker 1: While Emil continued to fight and even won more world titles,
Speaker 1: he carried this guilt with him and was haunted by
Speaker 1: Benny's death. He later admitted that he had nightmares about
Speaker 1: it and wishes that the referee would have stopped the
Speaker 1: fight sooner. Outside the ring, Amil lived a complicated life
Speaker 1: in an era where homosexuality was dangerous to be open
Speaker 1: and about. He struggled with his bisexuality. He was known
Speaker 1: to frequent gay bars in New York, but he had
Speaker 1: to be careful. In later years, he spoke about challenges
Speaker 1: living in two worlds, saying, quote, I kill a man
Speaker 1: and most people forgive me. I love a man and
Speaker 1: many still won't forgive me.
Speaker 2: Oh, that's like a quote from him.
Speaker 1: That's the quote from him. Yes, dang that hurts.
Speaker 2: Hey, Yeah, that hits for sure.
Speaker 1: Emil retired from boxing in nineteen seventy seven, leaving behind
Speaker 1: a record of eighty five wins, twenty four losses, and
Speaker 1: two draws, but the years of fighting took a toll.
Speaker 1: He suffered from dementia and long term effects from head trauma.
Speaker 1: In nineteen ninety two, decades after the fight, Emil and
Speaker 1: Benny Perett Junior would meet in person. Yes, Benny Perett
Speaker 1: had a son.
Speaker 2: Oh okay, I was like, what the shit I thought
Speaker 2: Benny died Junior? Yeah, Junior, I missed that part. Okay.
Speaker 1: During this emotional meeting, Perett Junior hugged a Meal and
Speaker 1: told him that he held no hatred towards him. He
Speaker 1: understood that it was never a Meal's intention to kill
Speaker 1: his father, and he recognized that boxing is a dangerous
Speaker 1: sport where tragedies like this can happen.
Speaker 2: Oh wow, okay, that's kind of nice. Say yeah.
Speaker 1: A Meal broke down in tears, relieved to have been
Speaker 1: given forgiveness after carrying that weight from that fight for
Speaker 1: so long.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Meal would pass away inly twenty July twenty third of
Speaker 1: twenty thirteen, at the age of seventy five. His story
Speaker 1: remains one of the most complex in boxing history. He
Speaker 1: was a world champion, a tragic figure, and a man
Speaker 1: who lived a double life in the time when being
Speaker 1: different was not exactly accepted, and that is the tragic
Speaker 1: story of the fight between Benny Perett and Emil Griffith.
Speaker 2: Jeez, I don't even know what to think in that one.
Speaker 1: Now, I didn't get into one one thing that occurred
Speaker 1: and one thing many people talk about. There's some controversy
Speaker 1: over it because some people deny the claims a coach
Speaker 1: in a corner telling him to kill him, to like
Speaker 1: go kill him, like get him, destroy him, kill him.
Speaker 2: Like when he was resting in between rounds, you mean, yeah,
Speaker 2: which I feel like is kind of something that he
Speaker 2: was probably just trying to pump them up.
Speaker 1: I'm assuming I agree if that was something said, I
Speaker 1: do not think the coach meant literally literally kill him. Yeah,
Speaker 1: like they do that in fights today. I'm gonna kill him,
Speaker 1: gonna I'm gonna get you, like they do that, hyping
Speaker 1: shit up all the time. It's not uncommon. In fact,
Speaker 1: there's people who are like having disputes between friends like
Speaker 1: I'm gonna fucking kill that asshole, you know. Yeah, there's
Speaker 1: people who are listening to this right now who are
Speaker 1: probably like I said that about my boss this week.
Speaker 2: I mean, even when you're like hyping yourself like I'm
Speaker 2: gonna kill it. I'm gonna go kill it kind a thing,
Speaker 2: like you're just exactly, it's like a saying kind of.
Speaker 1: So for argument's sake, if this was said in the
Speaker 1: corner to a meal, say fucking kill Benny, go get him,
Speaker 1: like destroy him, and Benny was.
Speaker 2: Like, yeah, I'm gonna do it, be this was said
Speaker 2: to Benny or sorry a meal Okay, okay.
Speaker 1: Sorry, I'm getting them back and forth.
Speaker 2: Yeah that's okay.
Speaker 1: He was said to a meal in his corner. If
Speaker 1: this was one hundred percent factual this conversation happened, I say,
Speaker 1: there is no way that there was ever any true
Speaker 1: intent to take a life with those statements or actions
Speaker 1: that followed afterwards.
Speaker 2: No, you know, I kind of Oh, I sit here
Speaker 2: and I'm like, how could the ref I mean, like
Speaker 2: that is that's a lot that Benny was like taking,
Speaker 2: and how could it not be? How could you miss that?
Speaker 2: You know? It was like that's too much, Like it's
Speaker 2: too much that he's But then it's also then you
Speaker 2: have to put yourself in that situation and with like
Speaker 2: the history and the heat of the moment and the
Speaker 2: crowd and like that probably went on. It probably felt
Speaker 2: like less time than it actually was. I'm thinking, do
Speaker 2: you know what I'm trying to say? Here?
Speaker 1: It goes by quick though too.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Like those hits, I don't know,
Speaker 2: I'm thinking, like in slow motion, you're kind of like,
Speaker 2: holy shit, how could you not stop that? How could
Speaker 2: you not think that he can get through that? But
Speaker 2: it's just probably like a blink of an eye, and
Speaker 2: it's you know, it really is.
Speaker 1: It didn't take long for this to happen. And when
Speaker 1: I say it was like twenty nine unanswered punches, I
Speaker 1: mean it was twenty nine unanswered punches. It's not that
Speaker 1: he quick, yes, but it's not that he was unconscious
Speaker 1: and sloped on the rope for twenty nine unanswered punches.
Speaker 1: He was like slumped on the ropes for probably just
Speaker 1: a few seconds. He is up and standing there for
Speaker 1: majority of us. Oh, he's probably slumped on the ropes
Speaker 1: for six seconds maybe.
Speaker 2: But still, yeah, it's it's still too much. But I
Speaker 2: do I don't know it is. I don't know all
Speaker 2: the rules and everything, and it's so much easier just
Speaker 2: to say sit back and be like, wow, he should
Speaker 2: have called that.
Speaker 1: You know, here, take a look at the fight.
Speaker 2: This.
Speaker 1: You can watch the entire fight on YouTube, and there's
Speaker 1: a documentary called The Ring of Fire. I highly recommend it.
Speaker 2: Is it on Netflix or what.
Speaker 1: It's on YouTube? You can go watch the document youre
Speaker 1: on YouTube. So here's the fight. You can see he's standing.
Speaker 1: He's taking these punches, but he's standing. He's got his
Speaker 1: whereabouts with him. He's clearly tired, which is exactly why
Speaker 1: Emil's pushing. He's conscious, he's conscious, right, yeah, Okay, Now
Speaker 1: he's slumping one Mississippi two, Mississippi three, Mississippi four Mississippi.
Speaker 1: Five seconds five seconds of his slump slumped on the rope.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, those five seconds. It's the only window
Speaker 1: where that ref could have made the call of when
Speaker 1: to stop it.
Speaker 2: Okay, that's terrible to watch that. Holy shit, it is terrible.
Speaker 2: I feel like I almost need to watch that again
Speaker 2: because I'm watching and I'm like, okay, no, it should
Speaker 2: have been cold, but I don't know. Holy shit.
Speaker 1: Now, like you can see that Goldstein, the referee, he
Speaker 1: does have a pretty good view, like you can see
Speaker 1: him here. He's looking, but then Emil steps in front
Speaker 1: of him and he's trying to regain position for a
Speaker 1: brief moment. So it might only be a fraction of
Speaker 1: a section where a second where he didn't have a
Speaker 1: proper view of it. But I think it's enough to
Speaker 1: be like, oh well, there's another you know portion where
Speaker 1: he got another punch.
Speaker 2: In, And it might have, honestly even been the same outcome. Really,
Speaker 2: it might have because the guy his body was just
Speaker 2: done it. It had gone through way too much. It
Speaker 2: has like even if say he did stop it like
Speaker 2: three seconds earlier, four seconds earlier, Like I'm not sure
Speaker 2: the outcam would have been any different for Benny.
Speaker 1: No, I don't think so. And so like, yeah, here's
Speaker 1: him laying in the ring. The video keeps going and
Speaker 1: you can see like where is it where Emil, Like
Speaker 1: they're they're announcing, you know, who the winner is and stuff.
Speaker 1: The bring announcer is a microphone everything. Yeah, Benny's laying
Speaker 1: down the ground. People are all around him, checking in
Speaker 1: on him. Emil gets his hands raised, right, Yeah, he's
Speaker 1: he's before even like wanting to talk to anyone. He's
Speaker 1: looking over and he's going to go check on his
Speaker 1: opponent in the corner. He's there. He wants to see
Speaker 1: and he's.
Speaker 2: He's worried about it.
Speaker 1: Yeah he is. And this is thirty seconds after the
Speaker 1: knockout is declared.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you can tell he's very distracted, for sure. I
Speaker 2: mean he's also tired as hell, so he is, but.
Speaker 1: He's he's concerned about his opponent, so concerned about talking
Speaker 1: about his victory.
Speaker 2: Just doesn't really wake up after that.
Speaker 1: Like it's correct, he hits the mat and he never
Speaker 1: wakes up.
Speaker 2: Oh boy, that's I don't know. That's sad. It is
Speaker 2: you almost think someone has to be held responsible. But
Speaker 2: also it's you put yourself like in that risk, I guess, right.
Speaker 1: So well, that's another thing is he didn't how much
Speaker 1: of his career did he have control of? Was he
Speaker 1: told you fucking go in there and you fight again.
Speaker 1: You're fighting now, you're fighting in a month from now,
Speaker 1: and two months from now. Get like, you're gonna do
Speaker 1: all these fights in this year? Who was his manager?
Speaker 1: Who is the one signing him up for these fights?
Speaker 1: So who's liable?
Speaker 2: Because the one fight was in December right where he
Speaker 2: like got quite injured, and the next one was in March,
Speaker 2: I believe. So yeah, you said, which, gosh, that does
Speaker 2: not seem like near enough time in between.
Speaker 1: No, So it is a very much so tragic tale.
Speaker 1: I do think that there is a crime committed somewhere
Speaker 1: in there, but the problem is identifying who committed it.
Speaker 1: Who do you find responsible, who's criminally negligent? Who put
Speaker 1: this man's life in the line?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Is it somewhere in the uh you know, the association though, Yeah,
Speaker 1: the State Athletic Commission. Is it his manager? Who?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Because I don't feel like it's necessarily a meal
Speaker 2: or I don't really necessarily think it's it's the ref
Speaker 2: that's so tough, but it has to be something, has
Speaker 2: someone has to be held negligence.
Speaker 1: I think, well, there's it's a funny thing because we
Speaker 1: talked about me being you know, a safety background, occupational
Speaker 1: health and safety, and there's this a theory I guess
Speaker 1: you can call it or effect. Maybe it's called the
Speaker 1: Swiss cheese effect. I think so. Basically, if you were
Speaker 1: to take say a dozen pieces of Swiss cheese, and
Speaker 1: you lay them all on top of each other, can
Speaker 1: you poke a hole directly through it all? Probably not, yeah,
Speaker 1: But if you do it over and over again, eventually
Speaker 1: holes will line up where you can see a hole
Speaker 1: directly through it all. So if the athletics commission has
Speaker 1: a hole in it, his promoter has a hole in it.
Speaker 1: You know, the hype about the match has a hole
Speaker 1: in it. The referee saying, you know what, he's a champion,
Speaker 1: he can go that extra two seconds. I got to
Speaker 1: give him the chance. There's a hole in it. Things
Speaker 1: lined up perfectly for a man to lose his life.
Speaker 1: Is any one person responsible or is a whole vast
Speaker 1: accumulation of things responsible.
Speaker 2: Well, I was just looking up because there was all
Speaker 2: I don't know. I think when you're in sports too,
Speaker 2: there's just like risks, right.
Speaker 1: Oh, there is. It's a natural thing for sports. You
Speaker 1: put your body on the line, like.
Speaker 2: This wasn't that long ago. Is his name Adam Johnson?
Speaker 2: I think he was playing hockey right, and remember of
Speaker 2: skating like we skate went to his neck? Is this terrible?
Speaker 2: Like just terrible? And then he did end up dying,
Speaker 2: Like is someone held you know, responsible for that or
Speaker 2: is it just like a shitty occurrence kind of thing,
Speaker 2: Like I don't know, I don't know. There's a lot
Speaker 2: of events in sports where people die, Like I'm thinking
Speaker 2: back to Olympics. Someone died. I think in Vancouver they
Speaker 2: were doing the was it the skeleton or yeah, maybe
Speaker 2: and someone died. Like it's just it's not unheard of
Speaker 2: that people die in sports, right like.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so, but yeah, that's the story of Benny Perett
Speaker 1: and Emil Griffith the third It.
Speaker 2: Seems like he was just like an absolute legend kind
Speaker 2: of thing, right that got Yeah, yeah, that is life
Speaker 2: ended too soon, that's for sure.
Speaker 1: Just like I say, it's a tragic tale for sure.
Speaker 1: But whether there is a crime committed that is that
Speaker 1: is another question. So if you guys have an opinion,
Speaker 1: we're curious about it, shoot us a message. We'd love
Speaker 1: to hear what your take is, whether you think you
Speaker 1: know there's a certain person responsible or something that could
Speaker 1: have been done to prevent it. Of course, in hindsight,
Speaker 1: there's many things that could have been done to prevent it,
Speaker 1: but even still, we're interested in your perspective, So shoot
Speaker 1: us a message. If you're looking for links in the
Speaker 1: description of this podcast, they're all down there, Facebook, Instagram, YouTube,
Speaker 1: website thingies. There. It's there, you can find it. You
Speaker 1: click on the option big Old list just for.
Speaker 2: You, Big Old List.
Speaker 1: Okay, Yeah, it's there.
Speaker 2: Oh okay, well, good job, well done.
Speaker 1: As usual, I appreciate it, and until next time, stay wicked.