WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.080 --> 00:00:03.799 Gernsbeck has published thousands of science fiction stories since nineteen eleven. 2 00:00:04.120 --> 00:00:06.200 How does scientists react to his ideas? 3 00:00:07.000 --> 00:00:11.240 In the early days, that is, before nineteen home and thirty, 4 00:00:12.160 --> 00:00:19.719 there was a terrible lot of skeptism. Today most scientists 5 00:00:19.760 --> 00:00:37.200 take me seriously. 6 00:00:37.520 --> 00:00:40.600 Welcome to Amusing Jews, where we celebrate Jewish contributors and 7 00:00:40.600 --> 00:00:45.320 contributions to American popular culture. I'm Jonathan Friedman, and I'm 8 00:00:45.399 --> 00:00:49.880 Joey Angelfield producer engineer Mike Tomren is working somewhere behind 9 00:00:49.880 --> 00:00:52.719 the scenes. Amusing Jews is a project of a DT 10 00:00:52.799 --> 00:00:56.759 Cavorine Congregation for Humanistic Judaism, the Jewish Museum of the 11 00:00:56.759 --> 00:01:02.159 American West, and Atheist United Studios. Hey, Joey, American science 12 00:01:02.159 --> 00:01:05.599 fiction owes much to Jewish writers and innovators, and the 13 00:01:05.680 --> 00:01:08.959 term itself was coined by a Jewish immigrant from Luxembourg. 14 00:01:09.599 --> 00:01:14.120 Hugo Gernsback our guest today, himself, a Jewish immigrant, is 15 00:01:14.239 --> 00:01:16.239 carrying on that rich tradition. 16 00:01:16.400 --> 00:01:19.480 We're thrilled to talk again with Alex Schwartzman, a prolific 17 00:01:19.519 --> 00:01:22.319 science fiction author whose latest novel is the best of 18 00:01:22.359 --> 00:01:26.719 All Possible Planets. Alex, welcome back to Amusing Jews. 19 00:01:27.040 --> 00:01:28.480 Thank you so much for having me. 20 00:01:28.599 --> 00:01:32.719 You've had an eclectic career as a writer, anthologist, translator, 21 00:01:32.799 --> 00:01:35.680 and game designer, not to mention your stint as a 22 00:01:35.799 --> 00:01:39.439 champion magic the Gathering player. What keeps you coming back 23 00:01:39.480 --> 00:01:40.159 to science fiction? 24 00:01:40.560 --> 00:01:43.719 Science fiction has been sort of my first love as 25 00:01:43.760 --> 00:01:48.480 a hobby, long before I discovered gaming, long before I 26 00:01:48.799 --> 00:01:52.040 kind of got involved in the laundry list of different 27 00:01:52.159 --> 00:01:56.439 cool things that you've mentioned. I was devouring science fiction 28 00:01:56.599 --> 00:02:00.280 books as a kid living in the Soviet Union. You 29 00:02:00.319 --> 00:02:04.359 know today is Ukraine, but back then it was a 30 00:02:04.400 --> 00:02:09.039 place that had very limited entertainment options. There were three 31 00:02:09.120 --> 00:02:14.280 TV channels, and you know, very little of quality on 32 00:02:14.400 --> 00:02:18.879 any of them. There were a few movies and a 33 00:02:19.000 --> 00:02:22.280 few different entertainment options available, but they were ample books, 34 00:02:23.000 --> 00:02:28.360 and so I just read voraciously. I read every science 35 00:02:28.400 --> 00:02:31.800 fiction short story and novel that I could find, both 36 00:02:31.879 --> 00:02:35.879 by the Soviet authors as well as in translation, which 37 00:02:36.000 --> 00:02:38.879 kind of why I fell in love with translation and 38 00:02:39.960 --> 00:02:42.240 and and everything that it has to offer as well. 39 00:02:43.479 --> 00:02:47.680 And I never walked away from that. When my family 40 00:02:47.960 --> 00:02:50.800 moved to the United States, I never thought that my 41 00:02:50.800 --> 00:02:53.639 English would be good enough to be a writer. I 42 00:02:53.759 --> 00:02:57.599 was very surprised to learn that I was wrong, but 43 00:02:57.919 --> 00:03:03.159 also gratified. So but I continue to read throughout this 44 00:03:03.400 --> 00:03:07.159 entire time. For my you know, five decades of life, 45 00:03:07.280 --> 00:03:12.199 I've been reading science fiction books, and I think I'm 46 00:03:12.439 --> 00:03:15.520 probably really well read, even for science fiction fandom. And 47 00:03:15.520 --> 00:03:18.159 there are some people who are just astoundingly well read 48 00:03:18.240 --> 00:03:21.199 in that space, because many of the books I've read 49 00:03:21.280 --> 00:03:25.800 are from the era that are hardly read today by 50 00:03:26.240 --> 00:03:28.759 modern readers. So like the Golden Age books, you know, 51 00:03:28.960 --> 00:03:32.199 going all the way back to the time of Hugburns 52 00:03:32.240 --> 00:03:36.960 back and so I kind of channeled and poured all 53 00:03:36.960 --> 00:03:39.039 of that love into this new book. 54 00:03:39.639 --> 00:03:42.719 One of the first science fiction books I remember reading 55 00:03:42.800 --> 00:03:45.120 was an anthology of Soviet science fiction. I think that 56 00:03:45.199 --> 00:03:46.759 was the title of it. But I was struck by 57 00:03:46.840 --> 00:03:49.879 kind of the differences between some of the stories in 58 00:03:49.919 --> 00:03:52.719 there and the stuff that I was reading later that 59 00:03:52.800 --> 00:03:55.800 was American science fiction. Do you have any like, I 60 00:03:55.800 --> 00:04:00.000 don't know, all encompassing view of maybe the distinctions between 61 00:04:00.639 --> 00:04:03.599 Soviet and American science fiction of that era. 62 00:04:04.000 --> 00:04:07.400 The Soviet science fiction was very limited in some ways 63 00:04:07.479 --> 00:04:11.680 because you couldn't express yourself really, you couldn't just tell 64 00:04:11.719 --> 00:04:14.319 the best story that you wanted to tell. You couldn't 65 00:04:14.360 --> 00:04:18.079 just entertain the audience. There were certain milestones that you 66 00:04:18.120 --> 00:04:21.279 had to hit. Science fiction was viewed by the Soviet 67 00:04:21.319 --> 00:04:24.480 regime much in the same way as it is currently 68 00:04:24.519 --> 00:04:27.759 being viewed by the Chinese government as the fiction for 69 00:04:27.920 --> 00:04:32.800 the young people and as a means of getting them 70 00:04:32.839 --> 00:04:38.439 interested in science. And so the stories had to always feature, 71 00:04:38.920 --> 00:04:43.040 you know, some kind of victory of socialism and the 72 00:04:43.040 --> 00:04:47.120 communist regime over the evil capitalists. It had to feature, 73 00:04:48.120 --> 00:04:52.240 you know, some sort of scientific adventures that would you know, 74 00:04:52.680 --> 00:04:56.279 entice the potential readers. So there were all of these limitations, 75 00:04:56.680 --> 00:04:59.879 and even so there were brilliant authors like the stor 76 00:05:00.000 --> 00:05:03.399 Gott's key brothers like Ki Bolichov who were able to 77 00:05:03.480 --> 00:05:06.480 work within these constraints and tell great stories. But those 78 00:05:06.519 --> 00:05:11.639 stories were indeed different from American fiction, where the primary 79 00:05:11.759 --> 00:05:13.839 goal was to sell the book right, to sell as 80 00:05:13.839 --> 00:05:16.959 many copies as possible, and they just wasn't part of 81 00:05:17.000 --> 00:05:20.759 the equation. In the Soviet regime, the primary goal was 82 00:05:20.759 --> 00:05:22.439 to get the book past the sensors, to get it 83 00:05:22.439 --> 00:05:23.160 published at all. 84 00:05:23.480 --> 00:05:27.160 Do you have any opinion about whether science fiction needs 85 00:05:27.199 --> 00:05:32.600 to include scientific basis or not to be science fiction. 86 00:05:33.000 --> 00:05:36.040 I think it doesn't have to, and it absolutely can. 87 00:05:36.319 --> 00:05:40.519 There's some fantastic heart science fiction out there, and that's heard. 88 00:05:40.560 --> 00:05:43.759 Science fiction is generally how we describe these types of 89 00:05:43.800 --> 00:05:48.399 stories that are really with the sciences, relatively rigorous, so 90 00:05:48.639 --> 00:05:52.800 think the Martian for example. But you don't have to 91 00:05:53.360 --> 00:05:57.600 the great thing about our genre is that there is 92 00:05:58.000 --> 00:06:02.079 an infinite number of ways to tell story. And in fact, 93 00:06:02.639 --> 00:06:07.360 the term in the Russian language for the genre is fantastica, 94 00:06:07.399 --> 00:06:12.240 and fantastica is a term that encompasses all speculative literature. 95 00:06:12.319 --> 00:06:15.160 There is no quite an equivalent term in English, but 96 00:06:15.279 --> 00:06:19.160 it basically includes science fiction that includes fantasy, it includes 97 00:06:19.199 --> 00:06:24.639 speculative horror, anything where I think speculative fiction is probably 98 00:06:24.639 --> 00:06:29.319 the closest comparison, but it sounds a little academic, whereas 99 00:06:29.360 --> 00:06:33.279 fantastica is generally accepted. And so I really like that 100 00:06:33.439 --> 00:06:37.759 term because it by itself, just by using the term, 101 00:06:37.800 --> 00:06:40.399 it kind of invites you to consider that, like, all 102 00:06:40.439 --> 00:06:43.720 types of storytellings are possible, and you don't have to 103 00:06:44.040 --> 00:06:46.839 just be just serve the science. 104 00:06:47.680 --> 00:06:50.879 Enjoining the show, click like and subscribe. 105 00:06:50.759 --> 00:06:53.240 You describe your latest novel the best of All Possible 106 00:06:53.279 --> 00:06:57.399 Planets as a space opera comedy for fans of Futurama 107 00:06:57.639 --> 00:07:00.319 and The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy. You use a 108 00:07:00.319 --> 00:07:02.560 lot of humor in your work, and sci fi and 109 00:07:02.639 --> 00:07:06.040 comedy in general often blend well together. Why do you 110 00:07:06.079 --> 00:07:06.680 think that is. 111 00:07:06.959 --> 00:07:09.199 I think it's not just sci fi and comedy. I 112 00:07:09.240 --> 00:07:11.639 think a lot of genres tend to work well together 113 00:07:11.839 --> 00:07:14.399 if you're speaking the language, if you're speaking sort of 114 00:07:14.399 --> 00:07:19.399 the shrible of your readers. So if you're combining let's 115 00:07:19.439 --> 00:07:22.519 say you're a huge romance fan, right, and if somebody 116 00:07:22.560 --> 00:07:26.839 is writing a movie or a book that plays with 117 00:07:26.920 --> 00:07:30.160 those tropes and winks at the reader of those tropes 118 00:07:30.160 --> 00:07:32.439 in just the right way, in the way that they 119 00:07:32.439 --> 00:07:36.439 will recognize, it will work really, really well. And so 120 00:07:37.040 --> 00:07:40.600 the same is true with science fiction. Because whether you're 121 00:07:40.639 --> 00:07:44.160 a hardcore fan like most of us, or whether you're 122 00:07:44.199 --> 00:07:47.199 just a casual person that have maybe seen Star Wars 123 00:07:47.199 --> 00:07:51.480 and Doune and Star Trek, but isn't necessarily somebody who 124 00:07:51.560 --> 00:07:56.160 will recognize the Golden Age novels and stuff. You still 125 00:07:56.240 --> 00:08:00.199 understand the tropes and the references. And that is why 126 00:08:00.920 --> 00:08:03.519 TV shows that Featurama work so well. I mean, that's 127 00:08:03.560 --> 00:08:07.040 an incredibly smart show that's written by one of the 128 00:08:07.399 --> 00:08:12.360 best educated, like you know writers' rooms in the business. 129 00:08:12.439 --> 00:08:15.040 Like there's so many like Carvard graduates and so many 130 00:08:15.399 --> 00:08:19.120 actual scientists that were involved with that. But they were 131 00:08:19.240 --> 00:08:24.399 able to tell the jokes that everybody could understand. But 132 00:08:24.519 --> 00:08:27.120 if you actually happen to get the inside joke, to 133 00:08:27.199 --> 00:08:29.360 understand the science behind what they were saying, or the 134 00:08:29.399 --> 00:08:32.600 formula that was written on the blackboard the in an 135 00:08:32.600 --> 00:08:36.600 episode somewhere, that easter egg only enhanced your enjoyment of 136 00:08:36.639 --> 00:08:39.279 the story. And so I tried time and again to 137 00:08:39.320 --> 00:08:43.080 apply the same strategy to my book, where you should 138 00:08:43.080 --> 00:08:46.679 be able to read it even if you're a complete 139 00:08:46.720 --> 00:08:50.159 neophy if you're just vaguely familiar with what space opera 140 00:08:50.279 --> 00:08:53.240 is and you know what those kind of types of 141 00:08:53.279 --> 00:08:57.360 stories try to accomplish. But if you actually get the references, 142 00:08:57.399 --> 00:09:01.759 then that level of enjoyment just becomes much more refined, 143 00:09:01.919 --> 00:09:05.600 and you will get that endorphin every time that you 144 00:09:05.679 --> 00:09:08.440 catch an easter and you catch that reference that was intended. 145 00:09:08.600 --> 00:09:10.279 Is there a name for that kind of fiction that 146 00:09:10.360 --> 00:09:13.799 makes so many references and easter eggs, Like you describe. 147 00:09:13.320 --> 00:09:17.039 Well, it could be satire, it could be you know, 148 00:09:17.440 --> 00:09:20.879 it could just be comedy. I mean, to my mind, 149 00:09:21.120 --> 00:09:23.919 a good humor story, especially if you're trying to write 150 00:09:23.919 --> 00:09:26.840 a humor story at novel length, which is very difficult, 151 00:09:26.919 --> 00:09:31.759 right because humor tends to outstates welcome very quickly. So 152 00:09:32.080 --> 00:09:34.600 if you write, let's say, a novel that's based on 153 00:09:34.639 --> 00:09:38.440 nothing but puns, the reader may get tired of that 154 00:09:38.519 --> 00:09:40.879 by chapter three, I mean, and at some point they 155 00:09:40.879 --> 00:09:42.879 may throw the book across the room because it's just 156 00:09:42.960 --> 00:09:46.240 more of the same. Right. So the strategy for that, 157 00:09:46.320 --> 00:09:50.120 in my mind, is you utilize every type of humor. 158 00:09:50.159 --> 00:09:52.799 You throw everything at it, and you could have an 159 00:09:52.799 --> 00:09:55.679 occasional pun, you can have wordplay, you can have satire, 160 00:09:56.080 --> 00:09:59.399 you can have social commentary, and you mix it all up. 161 00:10:00.039 --> 00:10:02.440 And as a reader, you don't have to like every 162 00:10:02.480 --> 00:10:05.000 single joke, but if you find something, if you find 163 00:10:05.039 --> 00:10:07.600 a few jokes you like in every chapter, you will 164 00:10:07.600 --> 00:10:10.000 be delighted by the book, you know. So that's that 165 00:10:10.200 --> 00:10:13.799 kind of kitchen sink approach tends to work if you 166 00:10:14.039 --> 00:10:18.559 are first of all capable and second willing to kind 167 00:10:18.600 --> 00:10:20.639 of bland all of those types of humor together. 168 00:10:20.720 --> 00:10:23.639 Yeah, I think you're right that a book of like 169 00:10:23.799 --> 00:10:27.360 dad jokes from outer space wouldn't work very well. But 170 00:10:27.600 --> 00:10:30.120 your book, because you're planting all those easter eggs or 171 00:10:30.159 --> 00:10:33.200 what we call offfee commons, you know, all over the book. 172 00:10:33.440 --> 00:10:37.000 I think it actually encourages a reread as well, because 173 00:10:37.039 --> 00:10:39.840 you're going to find something new that you didn't notice 174 00:10:39.879 --> 00:10:42.960 the first time, or the second time, or the third time. 175 00:10:43.039 --> 00:10:46.039 So it's kind of a brilliant thing that some authors 176 00:10:46.080 --> 00:10:51.080 like you do to kind of overload the story with references. 177 00:10:51.120 --> 00:10:55.720 So then next time, after you've experienced whatever's being referenced, 178 00:10:56.039 --> 00:10:57.879 you read it again, and now you're going to notice 179 00:10:58.080 --> 00:10:59.440 that reference in there. Right. 180 00:10:59.759 --> 00:11:02.559 I did something interesting there because I noticed from my 181 00:11:02.639 --> 00:11:06.360 early beta readers that it was almost like a race 182 00:11:06.440 --> 00:11:10.519 to see how many references they could identify, and like 183 00:11:10.559 --> 00:11:13.120 how many of the in jokes they could catch. So 184 00:11:13.840 --> 00:11:17.000 I upon one of the many passes, and of course, 185 00:11:17.080 --> 00:11:19.320 every you know, like the book is never completed just 186 00:11:19.360 --> 00:11:21.519 when you finish writing it, you do many many passes 187 00:11:21.559 --> 00:11:24.240 over it. So one of the editing passes that I did, 188 00:11:24.320 --> 00:11:27.559 I actually wrote down every single reference that I myself 189 00:11:27.600 --> 00:11:30.159 remembered and recognized, and I got to tell you there 190 00:11:30.159 --> 00:11:32.480 are probably at least a few that I missed myself, 191 00:11:32.559 --> 00:11:35.120 because you can you make a joke, you make a 192 00:11:35.159 --> 00:11:38.360 reference to something, and then you just forget. But at 193 00:11:38.399 --> 00:11:40.519 the end of the book there's a little glossary that 194 00:11:40.639 --> 00:11:42.799 kind of gives you all the references that I know 195 00:11:43.039 --> 00:11:45.919 for sure as an author that are in there. And 196 00:11:45.960 --> 00:11:48.799 again there are more that are subconsciously there, or there 197 00:11:48.799 --> 00:11:52.039 are more general references. There are referring to like a 198 00:11:52.200 --> 00:11:56.720 trow rather than specific specific book. But I think that 199 00:11:56.960 --> 00:12:00.120 having that at the end of the book is an 200 00:12:00.159 --> 00:12:02.519 interesting way for readers to kind of go through at 201 00:12:02.559 --> 00:12:04.679 the end and say, hey, did I catch the reference 202 00:12:04.679 --> 00:12:07.240 to that? Oh yeah, I definitely, I definitely knew. I 203 00:12:07.279 --> 00:12:10.080 know exactly like where where in the book that moment 204 00:12:10.200 --> 00:12:13.919 is that you know, ee, Doc Smith Skylark series is 205 00:12:13.919 --> 00:12:17.000 read is introduced, for example, or you know, or something 206 00:12:17.039 --> 00:12:20.679 like that. So and again, that's a g preference. That's 207 00:12:20.799 --> 00:12:23.159 that's that's something most people will not get, but they 208 00:12:23.240 --> 00:12:25.759 will absolutely get, you know, the Star Wars jokes and 209 00:12:25.799 --> 00:12:29.080 the Star Trek jokes and adctrical jokes and all the 210 00:12:29.480 --> 00:12:31.559 more popular space opera franchises. 211 00:12:31.720 --> 00:12:33.600 You know, I'm only about eighty percent of the way 212 00:12:33.639 --> 00:12:36.159 through the book, and I got a reference from Foundation, 213 00:12:36.200 --> 00:12:38.279 which I was like pretty proud to get from Isaac 214 00:12:38.279 --> 00:12:41.639 Asimov's Foundation. And I've only seen the TV series. It 215 00:12:41.679 --> 00:12:44.759 seems like the novel might be or the series of 216 00:12:44.879 --> 00:12:46.679 novels might be a little bit hard for me to 217 00:12:46.679 --> 00:12:49.279 get into. So I'm just wondering where that one came from. 218 00:12:49.320 --> 00:12:50.240 You probably have read it. 219 00:12:50.320 --> 00:12:53.879 Yes, I have read the novels. I also really enjoy 220 00:12:53.960 --> 00:12:58.240 the TV series, and I will venture forth an unpopular 221 00:12:58.279 --> 00:13:01.080 opinion that the TV series is actually batter. So the 222 00:13:01.919 --> 00:13:06.320 novels have wonderful ideas, but at the end of the day, 223 00:13:06.480 --> 00:13:08.600 it's a white room with a bunch of men sitting 224 00:13:08.639 --> 00:13:11.559 around and talking about stuff. It was Asimov's way to 225 00:13:11.639 --> 00:13:15.840 interrogate sort of like the future history and to write 226 00:13:15.879 --> 00:13:19.279 his own rise and fall of the Roman Empire. The 227 00:13:19.320 --> 00:13:22.559 TV series takes the concept and it pushes it that 228 00:13:22.679 --> 00:13:27.440 much further with interesting characters and beautiful scenery and just 229 00:13:27.600 --> 00:13:31.519 really really well written you know, episodes on plots. So 230 00:13:32.679 --> 00:13:34.960 it's one of my favorite TV series at the moment. 231 00:13:35.559 --> 00:13:39.559 So the reference definitely applies to both. But I think 232 00:13:39.879 --> 00:13:42.679 the TV series will make it easier for some of 233 00:13:42.720 --> 00:13:45.600 the modern readers to catch that, like yourself, who may 234 00:13:45.639 --> 00:13:47.759 not have actually read the books, but hey, like now 235 00:13:47.759 --> 00:13:50.639 you know, you know who Harry Selden is and the 236 00:13:51.080 --> 00:13:52.879 what the deal behind the foundation was. 237 00:13:53.000 --> 00:13:57.600 By definition, speculative fiction imagines the world of tomorrow. With 238 00:13:57.679 --> 00:14:01.120 the rate of societal and technological changes the days is 239 00:14:01.159 --> 00:14:03.679 it sometimes difficult to think up stuff beyond what might 240 00:14:03.720 --> 00:14:04.919 be possible in a year or two. 241 00:14:05.320 --> 00:14:08.879 The entire genre of space opera essentially was kind of 242 00:14:08.919 --> 00:14:11.320 built on the shoulders of two giants, and that's Edmund 243 00:14:11.320 --> 00:14:15.279 Hamilton and E. Doc Smith. Now I'm not saying that 244 00:14:15.399 --> 00:14:17.799 other people haven't contributed to it, but you know, they 245 00:14:17.879 --> 00:14:20.919 were really foundational to that. But if you read those 246 00:14:20.960 --> 00:14:26.000 books today, they're almost painful, right because they're so poulpy 247 00:14:26.200 --> 00:14:29.320 and so simple and kind of like the characters are 248 00:14:29.320 --> 00:14:32.480 not well developed by today's standards, et cetera. Science fiction 249 00:14:32.559 --> 00:14:35.240 in general doesn't tend to survive the test of time 250 00:14:35.279 --> 00:14:38.440 as well as fantasy, right because whereas you know, Tolkien 251 00:14:38.519 --> 00:14:41.080 built a society that's sort of you know, it's a 252 00:14:41.440 --> 00:14:44.399 you know, it's it's like it's a fantasy society that's 253 00:14:44.480 --> 00:14:48.159 kind of like medieval in its nature or before, and 254 00:14:48.240 --> 00:14:51.360 it doesn't project, you know, the science into the future, 255 00:14:51.720 --> 00:14:54.799 whereas any science fiction writer they if they invent a 256 00:14:54.799 --> 00:14:58.639 flying car, and ten years later somebody actually creates a 257 00:14:58.639 --> 00:15:00.799 flying car and it's done in the complete different way, 258 00:15:01.240 --> 00:15:04.159 all of a sudden, their idea feels dated, you know, 259 00:15:04.240 --> 00:15:07.759 and so you kind of take greater risks if you're 260 00:15:07.799 --> 00:15:11.000 writing science fiction, especially in near future science fiction. So 261 00:15:11.559 --> 00:15:14.559 so we have to allow for the fact that, you know, 262 00:15:14.600 --> 00:15:17.759 Asima was in fact brilliant and did a great job 263 00:15:17.799 --> 00:15:21.440 for his time, but it may not some of those 264 00:15:21.480 --> 00:15:24.480 books may not read as smoothly today as they would have, 265 00:15:24.720 --> 00:15:26.519 you know, thirty or forty or fifty years ago. 266 00:15:26.720 --> 00:15:29.240 Without giving too much away, what's the gist of the 267 00:15:29.279 --> 00:15:30.759 Best of All Possible Planets. 268 00:15:30.960 --> 00:15:35.120 Although it's a space opera book, the sort of the 269 00:15:35.200 --> 00:15:37.879 third rail, the core of the book is it is 270 00:15:37.960 --> 00:15:42.879 based on Voltaire's Candied and so not only is that 271 00:15:43.279 --> 00:15:47.080 one of the earliest like black comedy books, but perhaps 272 00:15:47.080 --> 00:15:50.799 the very first black comedy book ever written. It is 273 00:15:50.960 --> 00:15:54.600 also an adventure story that has a character chasing a 274 00:15:54.720 --> 00:15:59.120 mcguffin across the globe, and so at one point a 275 00:15:59.120 --> 00:16:01.080 few years ago, my son had to read it for 276 00:16:01.159 --> 00:16:04.440 school and he wanted very much to discuss it with me. 277 00:16:04.480 --> 00:16:05.919 So I had to reread it so that I could 278 00:16:06.000 --> 00:16:09.120 be current, because it's been decades since i've read it. 279 00:16:09.320 --> 00:16:11.840 Plus I've originally read it in Russian translation rather than 280 00:16:11.879 --> 00:16:16.840 English translation. And when I reread it, my first thought, somehow, 281 00:16:16.879 --> 00:16:19.840 because it's me and that's the way my crazy brain works, 282 00:16:20.399 --> 00:16:22.480 my first thought was, Wow, this would make a great 283 00:16:22.480 --> 00:16:26.679 space opera, And so I wrote a space opera indeed, 284 00:16:26.879 --> 00:16:31.279 where these characters are chasing a literal MacGuffin across the universe, 285 00:16:32.000 --> 00:16:37.080 and it's the same character arc in a way as 286 00:16:37.159 --> 00:16:40.080 Voltaire's characters, but of course it's a completely different plot. 287 00:16:40.759 --> 00:16:43.039 And the way that I structured the book is that 288 00:16:43.200 --> 00:16:48.360 they leave Earth looking for a force barrier, a terraform 289 00:16:48.440 --> 00:16:52.360 and force barrier. They can keep a small plot of 290 00:16:52.440 --> 00:16:54.919 land on Earth still habitable, because Earth at that point 291 00:16:55.039 --> 00:16:59.279 is posted apocalyptic and pretty much toorally matched up. And 292 00:16:59.320 --> 00:17:02.159 of course the spend the entire book chasing the smacguffin 293 00:17:02.320 --> 00:17:06.000 across across the galaxy, and every chapter they visit a 294 00:17:06.079 --> 00:17:10.920 different science fiction and especially space opera trope. So one moment, 295 00:17:11.000 --> 00:17:13.599 they may end up on a space Western planet, where 296 00:17:13.640 --> 00:17:17.240 I'll make fun of things like Firefly and like the 297 00:17:17.279 --> 00:17:20.880 Micresnic books and you know, all the all the space 298 00:17:20.880 --> 00:17:23.799 Western tropes that we see some in Star Trek and 299 00:17:23.839 --> 00:17:26.960 other places. Another moment, they may go to the planet 300 00:17:27.000 --> 00:17:28.960 of the Killer Robots, where you play with that whole 301 00:17:29.000 --> 00:17:32.599 idea of like, hey, like robots or want to exterminate humanity. 302 00:17:33.039 --> 00:17:35.400 But what I do with each of those concepts is 303 00:17:35.440 --> 00:17:39.440 I interrogate them and I try to subvert those tropes, 304 00:17:39.559 --> 00:17:43.000 which kind of has been where I live in terms 305 00:17:43.039 --> 00:17:45.599 of being a writer. I've always I've always been all 306 00:17:45.640 --> 00:17:51.240 about subverting tropes and so by by chasing a particular 307 00:17:51.279 --> 00:17:53.839 trope in every chapter that gives me an opportunity to 308 00:17:53.880 --> 00:17:56.839 go after them. So and those tropes, like sometimes it's 309 00:17:56.880 --> 00:17:59.960 a very popular franchise, and I just play with those ideas, 310 00:18:00.079 --> 00:18:02.359 like there's a couple of chapters that they're dedicated to 311 00:18:02.359 --> 00:18:07.559 Star Wars. And sometimes it is a subgenre like military 312 00:18:07.559 --> 00:18:12.039 science fiction, which has many, many many books, but it's 313 00:18:12.039 --> 00:18:14.279 also something that's relatively fun to make fun of. And 314 00:18:14.319 --> 00:18:18.119 sometimes it's things like why is there always a British 315 00:18:18.200 --> 00:18:22.279 style aristocracy in space? What sense does that possibly make? Like? 316 00:18:22.359 --> 00:18:25.880 Why is that feudal system something that so many writers 317 00:18:25.960 --> 00:18:30.599 are so excited to uh to structure their galactic empire on? 318 00:18:31.000 --> 00:18:34.640 So I play with that as well, and and and 319 00:18:34.799 --> 00:18:35.680 so on and so forth. 320 00:18:35.880 --> 00:18:39.519 As mentioned, you also translate Russian sci fi into English. 321 00:18:39.680 --> 00:18:42.079 Has translating helped you develop as a writer? 322 00:18:42.400 --> 00:18:48.359 Absolutely? By working on a translation, you remove yourself entirely 323 00:18:48.960 --> 00:18:52.920 from having to worry about developing the characters, or creating 324 00:18:52.960 --> 00:18:55.839 the plot, or you know, or pacing or a lot 325 00:18:55.920 --> 00:18:57.720 of the other things that the writer has to think about. 326 00:18:58.480 --> 00:19:03.000 And you are you have two jobs. Number one is 327 00:19:03.240 --> 00:19:08.160 to correctly relate the feelings and the thoughts that the 328 00:19:08.359 --> 00:19:13.880 author is intending to evoke in their readers. But number 329 00:19:13.920 --> 00:19:18.559 two is to write it in the best possible language, 330 00:19:18.559 --> 00:19:21.039 to emulate the language of the author and their style, 331 00:19:21.720 --> 00:19:24.759 so that the translated book or short story doesn't read 332 00:19:24.839 --> 00:19:27.440 like I wrote it, but rather it reads like the 333 00:19:27.519 --> 00:19:30.559 author wrote it and it was presented in a new language. 334 00:19:30.799 --> 00:19:34.640 And so it adds all of these different tools to 335 00:19:34.680 --> 00:19:36.839 your toolbox as a writer. And the same can be 336 00:19:36.880 --> 00:19:38.799 true of a lot of different things. If you write 337 00:19:39.160 --> 00:19:43.119 video game content, if you write comic book scripts. If 338 00:19:43.160 --> 00:19:46.960 you work on translation, all of these things allowing you 339 00:19:47.000 --> 00:19:49.720 to learn certain techniques, then you can then take back 340 00:19:49.799 --> 00:19:53.000 and apply to writing, apply to writing your own works. 341 00:19:53.039 --> 00:19:59.480 So if you do something particularly well in creative fields, 342 00:20:00.079 --> 00:20:02.000 all of that experience comes back and helps you as 343 00:20:02.000 --> 00:20:03.680 a writer, no matter what it is. 344 00:20:04.000 --> 00:20:04.279 You know, and. 345 00:20:04.319 --> 00:20:09.359 Especially translation, because it concerns itself with being so precise 346 00:20:09.400 --> 00:20:12.279 with language, and it allows me to to kind of 347 00:20:12.319 --> 00:20:15.880 sharpen my pen and be more precise when you know, 348 00:20:15.880 --> 00:20:17.799 when you know when I'm using words and when I'm 349 00:20:17.880 --> 00:20:22.480 especially when I'm using wordplay, that that it works in 350 00:20:22.519 --> 00:20:25.680 a certain you know, in a certain cadence that that 351 00:20:25.720 --> 00:20:27.279 I may not have been able to achieve before I 352 00:20:27.279 --> 00:20:28.160 started translating. 353 00:20:28.400 --> 00:20:31.759 Does it also help you to write in other people's 354 00:20:31.839 --> 00:20:34.640 voices when you're developing characters, The fact that you've been 355 00:20:34.759 --> 00:20:40.960 translating other writers, any of those spillover sort of skills 356 00:20:41.000 --> 00:20:44.680 of being able to write dispassionately or you know, remove 357 00:20:44.759 --> 00:20:46.480 from the characters in your own books. 358 00:20:46.599 --> 00:20:49.119 That's actually a really interesting question. I hadn't considered that. 359 00:20:49.160 --> 00:20:51.839 You're probably right, and it probably does contribute to it, 360 00:20:51.880 --> 00:20:55.759 but it's not something that I thought about consciously, right, Like, 361 00:20:55.799 --> 00:20:59.319 I mean, typically, what you want to do is you 362 00:20:59.359 --> 00:21:02.720 want to make sure that your characters, especially your main characters, 363 00:21:02.759 --> 00:21:05.599 sound unique, so that they don't all bland together where 364 00:21:05.640 --> 00:21:09.319 you can't really tell who is speaking without a dialogue tag, right, 365 00:21:09.920 --> 00:21:11.960 And so you think about that and you say like, well, 366 00:21:12.000 --> 00:21:15.519 what are the you know, what are the verbal techs? Right, 367 00:21:15.599 --> 00:21:18.240 Like the thing on Fantastic four is not going to 368 00:21:18.279 --> 00:21:21.240 speak the same way as read richers, right, And so 369 00:21:21.319 --> 00:21:23.519 you want to do that for all of your characters. 370 00:21:23.640 --> 00:21:26.200 But I haven't really thought about it too much, but 371 00:21:26.279 --> 00:21:29.480 yes it must, right, because it's the same technique of 372 00:21:29.559 --> 00:21:33.400 being a chameleon and adopting many different voices. To my mind, 373 00:21:33.559 --> 00:21:36.519 it doesn't matter so much if you're writing humor. It 374 00:21:36.519 --> 00:21:38.759 doesn't matter so much if the technology in a story 375 00:21:38.799 --> 00:21:43.440 gets outdated, because every science fiction story, and especially every humor, 376 00:21:43.480 --> 00:21:46.440 every sat para story is in some ways about the 377 00:21:46.480 --> 00:21:50.839 problems we have today. Whether those problems are you know, 378 00:21:50.880 --> 00:21:57.200 the climate crisis, the advent of artificial intelligence, or you know, 379 00:21:57.480 --> 00:22:00.640 all of those things and fears and concerns kind of 380 00:22:00.680 --> 00:22:04.720 get you know, packaged into the work, and many of 381 00:22:04.720 --> 00:22:07.000 them may remain universal like, I mean, we're still gonna 382 00:22:07.359 --> 00:22:10.279 worry about the climate of our planet. You know, fifty 383 00:22:10.359 --> 00:22:12.319 years from now, maybe we will not worry about AI 384 00:22:12.480 --> 00:22:14.799 so much. Maybe that'll get resolved one way or another. 385 00:22:14.880 --> 00:22:18.119 But for now it's current, so I'm not so much 386 00:22:18.200 --> 00:22:21.119 worried that, like the technology will go in a different 387 00:22:21.119 --> 00:22:23.599 way in the future. I just want to make sure 388 00:22:23.680 --> 00:22:27.079 that people will understand the humor for as long as possible, 389 00:22:27.480 --> 00:22:30.720 in the same way as Golliver's Travels, right, I mean, 390 00:22:30.759 --> 00:22:34.200 Golver's Travels was very much social commentary. It wasn't about 391 00:22:34.240 --> 00:22:37.319 giants and little pushians. It was about British people and 392 00:22:37.359 --> 00:22:40.799 their problems. And so Jonathan Swift did a great job 393 00:22:41.599 --> 00:22:44.519 of writing that, and I take my inspiration, though not 394 00:22:44.680 --> 00:22:46.480 quite the same level of quality from that. 395 00:22:46.839 --> 00:22:49.319 I think it doesn't necessarily have to be funny, because 396 00:22:49.400 --> 00:22:52.880 I know, with current events and everything else, books like 397 00:22:52.920 --> 00:22:55.759 A Brave New World and nineteen eighty four and Fahrenheit 398 00:22:55.799 --> 00:22:58.759 four or five to one become very popular again, even 399 00:22:58.759 --> 00:23:02.519 though you know, maybe references are outdated. The theme, like 400 00:23:02.519 --> 00:23:05.480 you're saying, the issues that people are dealing with are 401 00:23:05.480 --> 00:23:08.720