WEBVTT 1 00:00:08.000 --> 00:00:10.839 All right, let's continue this Friday afternoon of the tri State. 2 00:00:11.119 --> 00:00:15.119 Quite rainy, but nonetheless sometime this afternoon early evening things 3 00:00:15.119 --> 00:00:17.800 should clear out. Saturday and Sunday look pretty damn good. 4 00:00:18.199 --> 00:00:21.600 Reds Baseball kicks off live in Chicago. First pitch about 5 00:00:22.079 --> 00:00:24.719 three twenty our time, and we're going to go to 6 00:00:24.760 --> 00:00:27.839 the inside pitch about two fifteen or so. But until then, 7 00:00:27.879 --> 00:00:29.800 it's you, me and the American people joining you. And 8 00:00:29.839 --> 00:00:32.079 I now is Stephen Gooden. He is a big time 9 00:00:32.200 --> 00:00:35.000 lawyer with Porter Wright. It's done about everything you can 10 00:00:35.119 --> 00:00:39.159 in politics and in practicing law. Has been a veteran 11 00:00:39.159 --> 00:00:41.640 of the Peace Corps in the US Army Reserve, was 12 00:00:41.679 --> 00:00:44.240 on city Council, got a couple of coffee on city 13 00:00:44.240 --> 00:00:48.320 council about twenty twenty as the corruption scandal was proliferating. 14 00:00:48.600 --> 00:00:51.000 It's also been a prosecutor and in a criminal defense 15 00:00:51.039 --> 00:00:54.000 attorney and more. And Steve Gooden, welcome again to the 16 00:00:54.000 --> 00:00:56.520 Bill Cunningham Show. And first of all, Steve, all the 17 00:00:56.600 --> 00:00:59.359 headlines locally and around the nation is how could this happen? 18 00:00:59.560 --> 00:01:03.600 How could pg Sittenfeld, a registered card carrying member of 19 00:01:03.600 --> 00:01:06.799 the Democratic Party, all of a sudden have inroads into 20 00:01:06.799 --> 00:01:09.480 the Trump administration. Out of nowhere he gets a full 21 00:01:09.560 --> 00:01:11.280 complete partner. I have it here in front of me. 22 00:01:11.519 --> 00:01:13.079 Explain that to the American people. 23 00:01:15.040 --> 00:01:17.599 Well, it's pretty straightforward, Willie. Thanks for having me on. 24 00:01:18.519 --> 00:01:23.359 You know, it's almost as though money and personal connections 25 00:01:23.359 --> 00:01:25.640 can trump politics, and that's pretty clearly. 26 00:01:25.719 --> 00:01:26.799 You know what happened here. 27 00:01:27.719 --> 00:01:30.359 It was part of Sittenfeld's defense team that he hired 28 00:01:30.480 --> 00:01:32.920 was from a law firm called Jones Day. It's a big, 29 00:01:32.959 --> 00:01:36.200 big time law firm with a big DC office, and 30 00:01:36.239 --> 00:01:39.040 one of his former lawyers, we have learned, now works 31 00:01:39.040 --> 00:01:41.760 in the Trump administration. So I can't imagine that hurt 32 00:01:41.840 --> 00:01:43.879 his chances in any way shape or for him. We'll 33 00:01:43.879 --> 00:01:47.480 probably never know exactly what was said or done, but 34 00:01:47.560 --> 00:01:49.280 that's clearly a big part of it. He had one 35 00:01:49.280 --> 00:01:52.680 of the thousand hour, thousand dollars an hour law firms 36 00:01:52.719 --> 00:01:55.319 in DC working on his appeals, and one of those 37 00:01:55.400 --> 00:01:58.560 lawyers went right into the Trump Civil Division of the 38 00:01:58.640 --> 00:02:01.280 Justice Department. So that's certainly didn't hurt. But we also 39 00:02:01.400 --> 00:02:05.760 know that Trump rightfully so feels that he was wrongly 40 00:02:05.840 --> 00:02:10.319 prosecuted by overreaching prosecutors during his time out of office, 41 00:02:10.639 --> 00:02:13.159 and that certainly probably has colored his view of who 42 00:02:13.199 --> 00:02:15.840 should get pardoned. There have been several other folks going 43 00:02:15.879 --> 00:02:18.919 back to Blagoyevitch on his first term, who he felt 44 00:02:18.919 --> 00:02:21.800 well even were Democrats, but he felt were the victim 45 00:02:21.879 --> 00:02:25.439 of politically motivated prosecution. So between those two things, none 46 00:02:25.439 --> 00:02:27.120 of us should really surprise anybody. 47 00:02:27.479 --> 00:02:29.840 And as far as the Jones Day Law firm, one 48 00:02:29.840 --> 00:02:34.719 of the most dominant law firms in Washington Little Cincinnati, Ohio, 49 00:02:35.360 --> 00:02:38.400 it's kind of odd that PG Sittenfeld would have access 50 00:02:38.439 --> 00:02:41.800 to millions and millions and millions of dollars to prosecute 51 00:02:41.800 --> 00:02:44.479 this appeal one thousand dollars an hour, having numerous lawyers 52 00:02:44.520 --> 00:02:47.159 working on it, and one of the attorneys, Ed Martin, 53 00:02:47.639 --> 00:02:52.319 was the US attorney for the Washington DC area. He 54 00:02:52.319 --> 00:02:55.719 couldn't get confirmed because the Senator tallis and so Ed 55 00:02:55.919 --> 00:02:59.639 Martin now is in charge of pardons, and the lawyers 56 00:02:59.719 --> 00:03:05.639 hired heard by PG Sittenfeld have great inroads into Ed 57 00:03:05.759 --> 00:03:08.280 Martin and those who actually recommend for the pardons. I 58 00:03:08.280 --> 00:03:11.879 would think Donald Trump has never met PG Sittenfeld, couldn't 59 00:03:11.879 --> 00:03:14.879 identify him in a lineup, but somebody said close to 60 00:03:14.919 --> 00:03:18.240 Donald Trump this guy was a victim of government corruption, 61 00:03:18.719 --> 00:03:20.479 much like a few others in the Tri State. I'm 62 00:03:20.479 --> 00:03:22.960 going to ask you about Larry Householder and Matt Borch's 63 00:03:23.000 --> 00:03:25.800 here in a minute. But PG Sentenfeld had to play 64 00:03:25.800 --> 00:03:28.639 the game. He still has almost a million dollars in 65 00:03:28.719 --> 00:03:31.479 campaign money he can give away to other candidates or 66 00:03:31.479 --> 00:03:34.479 to run himself if that's the case. But it's kind 67 00:03:34.479 --> 00:03:38.360 of odd that a liberal Democrat who I would imagine 68 00:03:38.360 --> 00:03:41.240 never voted for Donald Trump, would never vote for Donald Trump, 69 00:03:41.599 --> 00:03:44.240 probably doesn't like Donald Trump, and everything about Donald Trump 70 00:03:44.599 --> 00:03:47.439 is using Donald Trump for personal benefit. Can you smell 71 00:03:47.479 --> 00:03:48.080 when I'm cooking? 72 00:03:49.319 --> 00:03:52.560 Yeah? Absolutely, I think everybody can. And look you can 73 00:03:52.840 --> 00:03:55.879 if you get on the internet, within thirty seconds, you 74 00:03:55.919 --> 00:04:00.199 will find videos of PG sitting Feld comparing Trump to 75 00:04:00.400 --> 00:04:02.759 you know, basically calling him a fascist, and I mean 76 00:04:02.800 --> 00:04:04.840 not just not voting for him, but saying I think 77 00:04:04.879 --> 00:04:07.280 there's a clip that says where PG says, it wasn't 78 00:04:07.520 --> 00:04:11.240 this isn't politics as usual, and he's going to deport everybody. 79 00:04:11.280 --> 00:04:13.719 And I mean there were some really negative, tough things, 80 00:04:14.000 --> 00:04:17.480 you know, that he said over the years, but you know, 81 00:04:17.279 --> 00:04:19.360 you know, you know, like there's an old saying there's 82 00:04:19.360 --> 00:04:22.439 no permanent to friends or no permanent enemies in politics, 83 00:04:22.600 --> 00:04:25.480 and here really the stars aligned. And another piece of 84 00:04:25.519 --> 00:04:28.279 the two is most of the folks Trump has pardoned 85 00:04:28.639 --> 00:04:30.800 tend to be on the right side of the political aisle. 86 00:04:30.879 --> 00:04:34.319 So it probably I can imagine people around Trump saying, look, 87 00:04:34.360 --> 00:04:36.160 you're going to have to put some Democrats in the 88 00:04:36.199 --> 00:04:39.079 mix here too, so it doesn't look overtly political. So 89 00:04:39.480 --> 00:04:41.920 he probably benefited from that. There was a certain amount 90 00:04:41.959 --> 00:04:45.160 of just luck actually in being a progressive Democrat. So 91 00:04:45.199 --> 00:04:48.040 it maybe, you know, takes away the argument that these 92 00:04:48.040 --> 00:04:50.920 are all just blatantly political pardons because he partnered a 93 00:04:50.920 --> 00:04:53.959 lot of other folks too, with similar cases and different things. 94 00:04:54.079 --> 00:04:56.600 Sure, and so PG sent and Fellow put aside his 95 00:04:56.879 --> 00:04:59.720 personal political feelings in order to get a pardon, which 96 00:04:59.720 --> 00:05:02.519 I am understand completely now. I made the comment yesterday 97 00:05:02.519 --> 00:05:05.160 Steve Goodin of Porter Write Law Firm, a big time 98 00:05:05.160 --> 00:05:08.279 blue blood law firm here in Cincinnati on Fifth Street, 99 00:05:08.600 --> 00:05:14.399 that PG sitting Feld's conviction was. It was played yesterday 100 00:05:14.439 --> 00:05:16.800 by Karen Johnson again the key parts of the FBI, 101 00:05:17.199 --> 00:05:19.319 and PG says, you know, this isn't a quid pro 102 00:05:19.439 --> 00:05:22.079 quo we can't do a quid pro quo, etc. Then 103 00:05:22.079 --> 00:05:25.079 the checks were delivered and I made the comment I 104 00:05:25.199 --> 00:05:29.399 found it hard to believe that criminalizing politics is something 105 00:05:29.439 --> 00:05:31.279 we should do anyway. But you told me off the 106 00:05:31.319 --> 00:05:34.439 air that you actually attended the trial and many times 107 00:05:34.480 --> 00:05:37.199 what happened inside the courtroom is different than the media 108 00:05:37.240 --> 00:05:39.800 accounts of what happened inside the courtroom. And he told 109 00:05:39.800 --> 00:05:41.959 me off the air, you probably would have convicted him. 110 00:05:41.839 --> 00:05:45.319 Too, you know I would if I set through the 111 00:05:45.319 --> 00:05:47.519 bulk of the testimony. And I'll tell you, I mean 112 00:05:47.560 --> 00:05:49.920 a lot of the case against him was total nonsense. 113 00:05:49.959 --> 00:05:53.240 There was this ridiculous FBI sting investigation where it was 114 00:05:54.040 --> 00:05:55.720 I think these guys thought they were on an episode 115 00:05:55.759 --> 00:05:58.680 of the Sopranos, and the jury acquitted him of most 116 00:05:58.680 --> 00:06:01.040 of the stuff where they were pretud to be developers 117 00:06:01.040 --> 00:06:03.639 and mobsters from Rhode Island, and it was all pretty silly. 118 00:06:04.120 --> 00:06:08.319 But that key piece of testimony, and actually that recorded 119 00:06:08.360 --> 00:06:11.120 telephone call between he and in Duke Way, who was 120 00:06:11.120 --> 00:06:14.160 working as a developer, you could just feel it in 121 00:06:14.240 --> 00:06:16.839 the room when they played it that the jury did 122 00:06:16.879 --> 00:06:19.639 not like it. And it really is pretty hard to 123 00:06:19.639 --> 00:06:23.519 get around. I mean, they are discussing political fundraising and 124 00:06:23.600 --> 00:06:26.839 the approval of this project at the Convention centerarya there 125 00:06:26.879 --> 00:06:30.040 on Elm Street at the same time, and there was 126 00:06:30.079 --> 00:06:32.600 a moment where PG the line that I think got 127 00:06:32.639 --> 00:06:36.000 him convicted, which is when he says I want this money, 128 00:06:36.399 --> 00:06:39.040 I want these contributions. He said, I don't want to 129 00:06:39.040 --> 00:06:41.399 be in a position where I love you but can't 130 00:06:42.079 --> 00:06:44.000 and basically saying, look, you know, you know, there's a 131 00:06:44.040 --> 00:06:46.240 couple of ways to read it, but the most common 132 00:06:46.319 --> 00:06:47.879 sense way to read it, and you could tell the 133 00:06:47.959 --> 00:06:49.800 jury in the moment the way they were reading it 134 00:06:50.360 --> 00:06:52.079 was if you don't pay me, I'm not going to 135 00:06:52.079 --> 00:06:55.279 push your project through. So it was anyone who's tried 136 00:06:55.319 --> 00:06:57.560 a case to a jury knows that there are just 137 00:06:57.600 --> 00:07:01.360 certain things that played differently in a jury and in 138 00:07:01.439 --> 00:07:04.800 a courtroom, and they do out in public. And it 139 00:07:04.879 --> 00:07:06.680 was the air went out of the room that day, 140 00:07:06.720 --> 00:07:09.040 and it was very clear he was getting convicted to 141 00:07:09.079 --> 00:07:11.639 something right there in the moment. It was during COVID too. 142 00:07:11.680 --> 00:07:14.639 It was fascinating because the jurors all were wearing masks, 143 00:07:15.040 --> 00:07:16.759 but you could see it in their eyes, like, God, 144 00:07:16.800 --> 00:07:20.920 that's terrible. That's exactly the worst thing we think about 145 00:07:21.160 --> 00:07:23.879 with politicians, it's what we assume is going on behind 146 00:07:23.879 --> 00:07:27.600 the scenes. You're talking about campaign contributions in this project 147 00:07:27.680 --> 00:07:30.120 in the same breath, and you're clearly linking them, and 148 00:07:30.160 --> 00:07:32.480 that gets you into the quid pro quo area. But 149 00:07:32.680 --> 00:07:34.879 that said, I think his whole defense was, Hey, you know, 150 00:07:34.920 --> 00:07:38.279 it's first Amendment. Politicians should be allowed to talk like this. 151 00:07:39.560 --> 00:07:41.240 But if that's the case, they need to amend the 152 00:07:41.319 --> 00:07:43.920 law right now. With the law, the federal statute very 153 00:07:43.959 --> 00:07:46.199 clear that this kind of quid pro quo thing, that 154 00:07:46.279 --> 00:07:49.399 particular piece is illegal. And I think if the way 155 00:07:49.439 --> 00:07:51.199 that jury was charged, I think I would have had 156 00:07:51.199 --> 00:07:52.800 a hard time saying he was not guilty. 157 00:07:53.120 --> 00:07:55.759 Well, also, you were appointed to counsel to fill out 158 00:07:55.800 --> 00:07:58.199 a term because of all these scandals, how do you 159 00:07:58.279 --> 00:08:02.160 react to those like the Jeff and Tomya Dinard both 160 00:08:02.199 --> 00:08:05.800 did hard time in real federal prison as by the way, 161 00:08:05.879 --> 00:08:08.439 PG did four and a half months of his sixteen 162 00:08:08.480 --> 00:08:11.079 month sentence. He could have done another year if he 163 00:08:11.199 --> 00:08:13.399 lost the appeal in the Supreme Court. Now that's over with, 164 00:08:13.720 --> 00:08:16.399 But how's it fair the Jeff Pastor who was in 165 00:08:16.439 --> 00:08:19.240 that private jet down to Miami all wired up for 166 00:08:19.360 --> 00:08:23.480 sound by FBI agents posing as developers. They were wind 167 00:08:23.519 --> 00:08:26.839 dying in pocket lining Jeff Pastor and taking cash, and 168 00:08:26.879 --> 00:08:30.920 Tomi Denard shook down Tom Gableman, who was just relieve 169 00:08:31.000 --> 00:08:33.759 of his duties on the Banks project with cash. And 170 00:08:33.799 --> 00:08:36.320 Tom Gableman is an ethical guy. First thing, idiot was 171 00:08:36.360 --> 00:08:39.799 contact the FBI. They wired up Tom Gableman. And so 172 00:08:40.000 --> 00:08:44.639 how come pg Sittenfeld was treated differently than Jeff Pastor 173 00:08:44.679 --> 00:08:47.000 and Tomayoa Denard when he came to a pardon? Is 174 00:08:47.039 --> 00:08:49.200 it the lawyers didn't hire the right lawyers. 175 00:08:50.879 --> 00:08:53.000 Well, a couple things. Number one, and I don't want 176 00:08:53.039 --> 00:08:55.399 to feel like I'm to meeting neither Pastor or Donar, 177 00:08:55.519 --> 00:08:58.519 but I doubt, based on what I know about their circumstances, 178 00:08:58.519 --> 00:09:01.080 that they have the resources to hire a Jones Day 179 00:09:01.919 --> 00:09:04.679 to get their you know, get their case in front 180 00:09:04.679 --> 00:09:07.159 of someone and the Trump administration. But the other thing 181 00:09:07.200 --> 00:09:10.399 is too Their cases were a little different in that 182 00:09:10.799 --> 00:09:14.519 there was clear evidence that they both personally pocketed the money. 183 00:09:15.159 --> 00:09:18.639 Both the Pastor and Dinard kept the dialects. I mean, 184 00:09:18.679 --> 00:09:21.159 the testimony was that they were and they both played 185 00:09:21.159 --> 00:09:24.159 guilty to it. By the way, we both accepted responsibility, 186 00:09:24.200 --> 00:09:27.559 but they both had personal financial problems, which doesn't excuse this. 187 00:09:28.200 --> 00:09:30.759 But they took the money, and in fact, Jeff took 188 00:09:30.759 --> 00:09:32.960 the money, our pastor took the money from the same 189 00:09:33.000 --> 00:09:36.240 group that was trying to set up sit and Felt Sittenfeld. However, 190 00:09:36.720 --> 00:09:39.240 he didn't keep the money. These were all these were 191 00:09:39.399 --> 00:09:42.840 all he fell with the Sopranos guys, actually, but they 192 00:09:42.879 --> 00:09:45.480 sitt and fell. Every dime of it did go into 193 00:09:45.519 --> 00:09:48.080 his campaign account. And that's a big part of his 194 00:09:48.159 --> 00:09:51.200 defense too, which is like, look, this wasn't a personal shakedown. 195 00:09:51.679 --> 00:09:54.960 Basically was a political shakedown. A political shakedown should be allowed, 196 00:09:55.120 --> 00:09:57.960 and I means so that is where the real legal 197 00:09:58.000 --> 00:10:01.559 difference comes in. The jury could have cared less. They thought, 198 00:10:01.639 --> 00:10:04.120 you know, the money is the money, and it's for 199 00:10:04.279 --> 00:10:06.080 his use in one way or another. And that was 200 00:10:06.080 --> 00:10:08.960 a distinction that the jury clearly didn't care about. But 201 00:10:09.039 --> 00:10:12.879 that is something that I could see the Justice Department 202 00:10:12.919 --> 00:10:15.039 lawyers looking at now as they're looking at this as 203 00:10:15.080 --> 00:10:17.600 a pardon and thinking, well, that is a distinction that 204 00:10:17.639 --> 00:10:18.399 has some miror. 205 00:10:18.600 --> 00:10:22.600 Well, if Jeff Pastor Tamai Dinard could hire Jones Day 206 00:10:22.960 --> 00:10:25.200 and have an extra million dollars or so off to 207 00:10:25.240 --> 00:10:28.600 the side in order to prosecute appeals with the connections 208 00:10:28.639 --> 00:10:33.320 to the Trump DOJ maybe that he get a different result. Secondly, 209 00:10:34.960 --> 00:10:38.240 I spoke to someone who spoke to someone, and of 210 00:10:38.279 --> 00:10:40.759 course the media is a flutter today. Is PG sitting 211 00:10:40.759 --> 00:10:43.039 felt it's going to run for council? He has until 212 00:10:43.080 --> 00:10:46.600 August a file the Democratic Party has. I think they're 213 00:10:46.679 --> 00:10:50.039 nine endorsed candidates, very likely to win the mayor after 214 00:10:50.120 --> 00:10:53.559 have Puerival is running against jd Vance's half brother, and 215 00:10:53.679 --> 00:10:56.799 jd Vance's half brother thinks the Mega movement would work 216 00:10:56.799 --> 00:10:59.240 in the city of Cincinnati. I would say, good luck 217 00:10:59.279 --> 00:11:03.360 with that. But do you see PG arising like Jerry 218 00:11:03.360 --> 00:11:05.039 Springer who gave the check to a hooker? 219 00:11:06.799 --> 00:11:09.480 You know, I really don't. And I'll say this, like 220 00:11:09.519 --> 00:11:12.120 I said, I haven't spoken to Sittenfeld in some time, 221 00:11:12.159 --> 00:11:13.519 but the last time I did see him was at 222 00:11:13.519 --> 00:11:15.600 the trial and he told me clearly he was finished 223 00:11:15.600 --> 00:11:19.879 for politics. Then I heard from some mutual acquaintances last 224 00:11:19.960 --> 00:11:22.840 night that that's still the case. I mean, you know, 225 00:11:22.919 --> 00:11:26.200 in fairness to him, I think this has been extraordinarily 226 00:11:26.200 --> 00:11:29.159 hard on his family. He's got a young family, he's 227 00:11:29.200 --> 00:11:31.039 got two kids. I think another on the way. From 228 00:11:31.039 --> 00:11:34.200 what I'm told, I don't think he has any appetite 229 00:11:34.200 --> 00:11:38.279 to get back into politics as an elected official. Look, 230 00:11:38.320 --> 00:11:40.039 I mean, I don't really see a path for him either. 231 00:11:40.080 --> 00:11:41.759 I mean, the mayor seems to be on the glide 232 00:11:41.759 --> 00:11:45.080 path the reelection. I respectfully disagree that all those Democrats 233 00:11:45.080 --> 00:11:46.720 are going to get re elected this time. I think 234 00:11:46.720 --> 00:11:50.559 there are new issues there, but I don't see Sittenfeld 235 00:11:50.600 --> 00:11:53.360 coming back there. And there really isn't a path with 236 00:11:53.480 --> 00:11:55.919 either of the congressional districts right now unless he tried 237 00:11:55.919 --> 00:11:59.279 the primary Greg Landsman or something like that. And I 238 00:11:59.360 --> 00:12:01.559 just think that if he ever tried to run for 239 00:12:01.639 --> 00:12:04.799 office again, the commercials would right themselves and that phone 240 00:12:04.799 --> 00:12:07.480 call within Duke Way would come right back in the commercial. 241 00:12:07.879 --> 00:12:10.159 I mean, it's a very tough thing to get around, 242 00:12:10.200 --> 00:12:14.840 and to the average person, all the legal leaves doesn't 243 00:12:14.840 --> 00:12:16.960 really matter. You know, he was on a phone call 244 00:12:17.080 --> 00:12:20.960 talking about campaign contributions in exchange for supporting a development project, 245 00:12:21.039 --> 00:12:22.120 and that's a really tough thing. 246 00:12:22.320 --> 00:12:22.799 Stave Good. 247 00:12:22.919 --> 00:12:26.000 What happens to the almost a million dollars in his 248 00:12:26.399 --> 00:12:29.399 campaign account? Some say you can take it out and 249 00:12:29.480 --> 00:12:32.879 use it. That's not true. You've gone through this quite often. 250 00:12:32.919 --> 00:12:35.159 What can happen to the eight hundred and seventy five 251 00:12:35.240 --> 00:12:39.240 thousand dollars page Sentenfeld has just sitting there. 252 00:12:40.399 --> 00:12:42.440 Well, you can only do three things with it under 253 00:12:42.559 --> 00:12:44.440 both Ohio and federal law. I think he's got a 254 00:12:44.480 --> 00:12:47.519 federal leadership pack and like a separate state pack. And 255 00:12:47.919 --> 00:12:49.759 really all he can do is he can either donate 256 00:12:49.759 --> 00:12:52.759 it to charity, he can donate it to other candidates, 257 00:12:53.000 --> 00:12:55.799 or he can repurpose it to run for office himself. 258 00:12:55.799 --> 00:12:59.200 It's one of the three. So with the third one 259 00:12:59.240 --> 00:13:01.720 out of the picture, apparently he can either donate it 260 00:13:01.720 --> 00:13:04.799 to other candidates or I would expect him to ultimately 261 00:13:04.840 --> 00:13:07.639 probably give it to charity. But he cannot withdraw it 262 00:13:07.720 --> 00:13:10.519 for personal use. I mean, that is very well established, 263 00:13:10.879 --> 00:13:12.720 and you have to file a report every I think 264 00:13:12.759 --> 00:13:15.000 almost six months as to where it is. You even 265 00:13:15.039 --> 00:13:18.159 have to account for the banker for its interest to 266 00:13:18.200 --> 00:13:21.720 the penny. So his ability to do something funny with 267 00:13:21.799 --> 00:13:25.519 that is it's just not there. I was totally would 268 00:13:25.559 --> 00:13:27.240 I would look for him to do the charitable thing. 269 00:13:27.279 --> 00:13:30.000 Probably Steve Goodanov is told he's a broken man. Is 270 00:13:30.000 --> 00:13:30.759 that fair to say? 271 00:13:32.600 --> 00:13:35.159 You know, again, I haven't seen or spoken with him recently, 272 00:13:35.159 --> 00:13:37.480 but I will tell you from from people that know 273 00:13:37.639 --> 00:13:40.879 him that I know, I think that's a I think 274 00:13:40.919 --> 00:13:42.960 that's fair. I mean, there is a certain I mean, look, 275 00:13:42.960 --> 00:13:45.519 he did. This is a guy that went to an 276 00:13:45.519 --> 00:13:48.279 ivy league school, was the top vote getter here, who 277 00:13:48.279 --> 00:13:50.960 briefly ran for the US Senate, whose star was rising, 278 00:13:51.279 --> 00:13:53.519 who ended up doing some jail time. I think all 279 00:13:53.600 --> 00:13:56.720 jail time is hard jail time, but particularly for somebody 280 00:13:56.720 --> 00:13:59.039 who's you know, who had that kind of a future 281 00:13:59.120 --> 00:14:01.960 and coming from that. I can only imagine what it 282 00:14:02.039 --> 00:14:05.799 did to him into his family. So, you know, I 283 00:14:05.799 --> 00:14:07.000 don't want to you know, I don't want to sell 284 00:14:07.000 --> 00:14:09.639 it for piling on here. You know, he's he's been 285 00:14:09.639 --> 00:14:12.639 through a lot. And uh and I think as his 286 00:14:12.919 --> 00:14:17.200 career as a public official is over, and I wish 287 00:14:17.200 --> 00:14:19.440 you find a way forward, I wish him well. At 288 00:14:19.440 --> 00:14:20.759 this point, that's all you can say. 289 00:14:20.919 --> 00:14:24.480 I wish him well. I agree lastly about minute remaining. 290 00:14:25.240 --> 00:14:28.879 The grand jury in Hamley County is gathering evidence relative 291 00:14:28.879 --> 00:14:32.120 to the shooting of Ryan Hinton. It's a simple case 292 00:14:32.120 --> 00:14:34.919 in a sense, there's not thousands of witnesses or hundreds. 293 00:14:35.200 --> 00:14:37.480 There's two or three cops at the scene in uniform 294 00:14:37.759 --> 00:14:40.919 who can testify about gun gun, gun, and the actual 295 00:14:40.919 --> 00:14:43.720 police officer who was in shall I say, playing clothes 296 00:14:44.120 --> 00:14:47.840 actually shot he killed Ryan Hinton. I don't think he 297 00:14:47.960 --> 00:14:49.759 murdered him. I think he shot him and he died. 298 00:14:50.399 --> 00:14:50.639 Uh. 299 00:14:50.679 --> 00:14:55.120 There's clear evidence that the original pronouncements of the Chief 300 00:14:55.159 --> 00:15:00.480 of Police Fiji that a gun was pointed at at 301 00:15:00.480 --> 00:15:03.120 the police officer who did the shooting of Ryan Hinton 302 00:15:03.399 --> 00:15:05.440 and then a bullet went into the sternam and came 303 00:15:05.480 --> 00:15:08.879 out the back. All that's inaccurate or shalla say, cannot 304 00:15:08.919 --> 00:15:14.039 be proven. And at this point the prosecutor, Connie Pillach 305 00:15:14.080 --> 00:15:17.519 has a huge decision to make to present it to 306 00:15:17.559 --> 00:15:20.000 the grand jury or not. She's under no duty to 307 00:15:20.039 --> 00:15:22.799 present it to the grand jury. If she does not 308 00:15:22.960 --> 00:15:25.919 firmly believe she can get a conviction a trial, she 309 00:15:25.960 --> 00:15:29.399 should not present it at all. What is your sense, 310 00:15:29.559 --> 00:15:33.960 assuming there is a non true bill, given there's no 311 00:15:34.039 --> 00:15:36.840 indictment of the police officer, are you worried about shall 312 00:15:36.879 --> 00:15:38.039 I say, civil unrest? 313 00:15:40.120 --> 00:15:42.720 You know? At this point I'm really not, you know, 314 00:15:42.720 --> 00:15:46.080 and I'm not sure what calculation is going into the 315 00:15:46.120 --> 00:15:48.919 decision to present this to the grand jury, or even 316 00:15:48.960 --> 00:15:51.399 the hesitation about it. Everything I have read in the 317 00:15:51.440 --> 00:15:54.879 public record and everyone I have talked to, and I 318 00:15:54.919 --> 00:15:58.519 spent some time down at Deputy Anderson's visitation and talked 319 00:15:58.519 --> 00:16:01.600 to some of the officers there, I don't understand what 320 00:16:01.639 --> 00:16:04.000 the hesitation is. I don't know why the officer hasn't 321 00:16:04.039 --> 00:16:06.600 been cleared at this point. I do know some bigger 322 00:16:06.600 --> 00:16:11.159 cities and jurisdictions now present every officer involved shooting to 323 00:16:11.240 --> 00:16:13.600 the grand jury just as a matter of course, even 324 00:16:13.639 --> 00:16:16.360 if they think there's no choice or no chance of 325 00:16:16.399 --> 00:16:18.320 an indictment, And if that's going to be the new 326 00:16:18.360 --> 00:16:20.639 policy here, they need to announce that and treat everyone 327 00:16:20.679 --> 00:16:22.639 the same. So I really feel to this officer right 328 00:16:22.679 --> 00:16:25.080 now and his family who are sitting in limbo right 329 00:16:25.120 --> 00:16:27.399 now wondering if they're going to be indicted. But I 330 00:16:27.440 --> 00:16:30.799 do think that enough time has elapsed, and I think 331 00:16:30.799 --> 00:16:33.159 there's so many sensitivities around this, and I do think 332 00:16:33.200 --> 00:16:36.039 police community relations are in a better place. I will 333 00:16:36.039 --> 00:16:38.840 be surprised if we have more than a few scattered protests. 334 00:16:39.080 --> 00:16:41.440 Knock on wood. I hope and pray that it doesn't 335 00:16:41.480 --> 00:16:44.480 turn into another situation like we had back in two 336 00:16:44.519 --> 00:16:47.000 thousand and one. I don't believe the facts are there, 337 00:16:47.399 --> 00:16:50.480 but you know, we won't know until we know. 338 00:16:50.879 --> 00:16:53.879 Oh, Steve Gooden, there's been two other police shootings with 339 00:16:54.000 --> 00:16:57.600 Connie Pellach and she's cleared. Both officers presented neither to 340 00:16:57.679 --> 00:17:01.080 the grand jury, and so the fact she seemingly may 341 00:17:01.159 --> 00:17:04.480 present this to the grand jury could be a difficulty. 342 00:17:04.519 --> 00:17:06.319 And we'll see what happens. But Steven P. 343 00:17:06.519 --> 00:17:09.039 Gooden with Porter Wright, thanks for coming on the Bill 344 00:17:09.079 --> 00:17:12.400 Cunningham Show. In your perspective of PG Sittingfeld, once again, 345 00:17:12.440 --> 00:17:15.319 I pray for his complete recovery, and I hope he 346 00:17:15.359 --> 00:17:17.559 gets on with his life and just be a good 347 00:17:17.640 --> 00:17:20.000 husband and a good dad and get on with his 348 00:17:20.039 --> 00:17:22.160 life and maybe in some other cities what I'm told, 349 00:17:22.200 --> 00:17:26.599 because his name and face is somewhat difficult to walk 350 00:17:26.640 --> 00:17:29.039 around here, and he wants to raise his kid is 351 00:17:29.039 --> 00:17:32.240 in an environment free of that stain. So we'll see 352 00:17:32.279 --> 00:17:34.480 what happens. But Steve Gooden, once again, thanks for coming 353 00:17:34.519 --> 00:17:37.200 on the Bill Cunningham Show. And Steve, you're a great American. 354 00:17:37.240 --> 00:17:40.039 Thank you wise, thank you, sir. 355 00:17:40.079 --> 00:17:42.640 God bless you. Let's continue with more. The line becomes 356 00:17:42.680 --> 00:17:45.319 available five one, three, seven, four, nine, seven thousand, Bill 357 00:17:45.359 --> 00:17:47.920 cunning in the Great American Live at the Home of 358 00:17:47.960 --> 00:17:52.440 your Reds and an icon Segman Dennison on news radio 359 00:17:52.480 --> 00:17:57.480 seven hundred WLW. Now let's continue. We never stop here, 360 00:17:57.519 --> 00:18:00.759 We simply continue. And a Red Space kicks off a 361 00:18:00.759 --> 00:18:04.079 bit early today. First pitch about three twenty. Our coverage 362 00:18:04.119 --> 00:18:06.920 begins about two fifteen or so with the inside pitch 363 00:18:06.960 --> 00:18:09.720 and so much more. And the Reds are in Chicago. 364 00:18:09.759 --> 00:18:12.079 The weather's great there by the way, and they need 365 00:18:12.160 --> 00:18:15.440 a couple wins. They're uh one game under five hundred, 366 00:18:15.480 --> 00:18:17.440 about ready to Marsch for glory. We'll see what happens 367 00:18:17.440 --> 00:18:20.160 down the road and heading toward the All Star break, 368 00:18:20.200 --> 00:18:24.319 et cetera. The discussions I had with Steve Gooden were 369 00:18:24.359 --> 00:18:28.119 very illustrative of a difficulty that any new prosecutor has. 370 00:18:28.160 --> 00:18:30.079 And we have a new one on the line with 371 00:18:30.200 --> 00:18:32.960 Connie Pillach. I've reached out to her and she's going 372 00:18:33.039 --> 00:18:35.920 to join me when the decision is made to indict 373 00:18:36.039 --> 00:18:39.960 or not indict the Cincinnati Police officer. And I can 374 00:18:39.960 --> 00:18:42.640 give you, I can't give any inroads whatsoever. This person 375 00:18:42.680 --> 00:18:45.880 did not know exactly what was occurring, but I knew 376 00:18:46.079 --> 00:18:47.960 do know a couple things, and that is that the 377 00:18:48.440 --> 00:18:53.240 grand jury presentation would be somewhat brief. Unlike many other offenses, 378 00:18:53.559 --> 00:18:57.480 there may be two or three in uniform cops chasing 379 00:18:58.359 --> 00:19:03.039 those desperadoes, those car thieves, and then there's the one 380 00:19:03.079 --> 00:19:05.920 cop that actually did the shooting. And then there's only one. 381 00:19:06.200 --> 00:19:08.720 I understand there's only one videotape. There's not two or 382 00:19:08.720 --> 00:19:12.039 three or four. So there's one videotape and you've seen 383 00:19:12.079 --> 00:19:14.759 it maybe one hundred times, and that lasted total of 384 00:19:14.799 --> 00:19:19.119 about six seconds. The critical part lasted less than two seconds. 385 00:19:20.039 --> 00:19:23.880 The four defendants, the three defenders Torell Austin and de 386 00:19:24.000 --> 00:19:28.279 Anthony Bullocks and Sincere Grigsby eighteen and nineteen years old, 387 00:19:28.319 --> 00:19:32.400 all had extensive previous criminal records and they went one direction, 388 00:19:33.039 --> 00:19:38.160 as Ryan Hinton won a different direction. And when the 389 00:19:38.599 --> 00:19:40.720 matters presented before the grand jury, you're going to have 390 00:19:40.839 --> 00:19:44.160 essentially the coroner's report that indicated that the fatal shot 391 00:19:44.279 --> 00:19:47.079 was fired about three inches below the left armpit and 392 00:19:47.160 --> 00:19:50.279 exited out the sternum and tore the heart apart, and 393 00:19:50.319 --> 00:19:53.920 there was another bullet that went into the left side 394 00:19:53.920 --> 00:19:56.440 of the clavical and launched himself on the back of 395 00:19:56.440 --> 00:19:59.680 the neck. The coroner, doctor Lastmi some Marco, said that 396 00:19:59.680 --> 00:20:02.519 did not indicate that that shot came from the rear. 397 00:20:03.079 --> 00:20:08.319 That possibly probably as Ryan Hinton was shot and his 398 00:20:08.440 --> 00:20:13.200 body immediately reacted to his heart having a bullet go 399 00:20:13.279 --> 00:20:16.519 through at a high rate of speed, he instinctively turned 400 00:20:16.519 --> 00:20:18.960 to the right, which caused the second bullet to make 401 00:20:19.000 --> 00:20:21.039