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Speaker 1: What is up, fellow Sikos.

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Speaker 2: I am Dan Favali coming at you with my certified

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fantabulous co host, mister Grant Hughes, and we're here to

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talk about a semi emergency pod because we didn't jump

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on right away.

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Speaker 3: But hey, what are you?

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Speaker 1: What are you gonna do?

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Speaker 2: H carl A Fetwons to the New York Knicks, Julius

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Randall and Dante DiVincenzo to the Minnesota Timberwolves. And look,

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here's the thing. This trade still is in finalize, So

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the Knicks are sending as I'm stumbling through my words

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here because it's I'm still thinking about it. I just

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don't it's just a fascinating trade. But the Knicks as

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sending Dante DiVincenzo, Julius Randall Detroit twenty twenty five first

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round pick, which is protected top thirteen this year, I believe,

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and it'll leak into protections through twenty twenty seven, so

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there's a chance it conveyed, but it might not. And

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in return they are getting Karl Anthony Towns. However, there

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has to be more teams involved. We know one of

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them is the Charlotte Hornets because both of these teams

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are over the first apron and Minnesota of courses inside

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the second apron. Neither can take back more money than

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they send out in a trade, so it's obviously not

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gonna be a dollar for dollar match. And part of

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the appeal here for Minnesota I assume is they're shaving

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some payroll off of this year too. De Kwon Jeffries

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is going to be signed and traded to Charlotte along

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with draft compensation. That's pretty ambiguous at this point. However,

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I just given the gap that needs to be made up,

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which is about grant like eight point eight million, so

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closer to nine I don't like with base year compensation

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and stuff, I don't think the Kwon Jeffries alone is

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going to do it. So I am wondering if I

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tried to figure out the different permutations, but I ultimately

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think it's not going to be worth it because it's

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gonna happen and it'll date whatever theories I have. I

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would just keep an eye on the Mitchell Robinson stuff

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at this point because that would be a salary that

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could be folded into part of a larger deal. So

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this is a trade that per ESPN was being worked

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on for a while, and once the Knicks relented on

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I guess the Dante DiVincenzo of it all, that's when

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it picked up steam. I do wonder if, well, we'll

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get into the Mitchell Robinson injury how that impacted it.

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But there was also the report esp excuse me s

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ny dot TV's Ian Begley that Donte Devincenzo wasn't thrilled

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at the idea of having a reduced role following the

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mckill Bridges trade.

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Speaker 3: He probably would have been coming off the bench.

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Speaker 2: That likely made it easier for the Knicks than to

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break up the the Villanova crew.

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Speaker 3: That was the biggest surprise to me of all.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so Grant, let's which side do you want to Well,

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let's let's start here first. Given how this off season unfolded,

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where it was like free agency transaction was over very quickly,

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we had the fake Larry market and stuff for like

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a couple of weeks. This is one of the ones

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I very rarely get taken aback by transactions anymore.

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Speaker 3: This one got me.

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Speaker 2: And before I throw it to my final part of

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the preamble, I had taken an edible and on Friday

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night and this trade comes in after that. So I'm

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like doing all these things and thinking about it while

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I'm just stoned out of my mind, not out of

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my mind, but so that made it even more of

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just a little bit of a trip for me. So

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what were what was your reaction to the to the

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news coming through.

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Speaker 1: Knowing that that's new information to me, knowing that I

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really wish we had just done a true emergency pod

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right away on Friday night, just to really get out there.

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Speaker 2: Do you know I was actually high because I asked

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you if you would podcast today, wouldn't I normally be

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HESITANTD I don't want to buy.

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Speaker 1: You're feeling uninhibited. I think, so this is the we

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have to get into it. And I want to start

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with the towns for trades at this point of the

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off season really one. But this is so this is

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the type of trade that is going to make me

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never like give up on the where there's smoke there's

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fire thing again because I was wrong on the Donovan

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Mitchell stuff. It's like, oh, he's gonna he's not gonna resign,

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he's gonna be gone. There's all this, all these murmurings

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and whatever, and like, I mean, how many different times

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over the last couple of years. Did we discuss or

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see rumored or hear whispered about towns to the Knicks, right,

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and then it goes away because the Wolves are good

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town seems to be an integral part of that. The

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Knicks are just like, how could that ever work?

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Speaker 3: Why?

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Speaker 1: And then it happens, right, like there's this weird lull

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and then it happens. So it's gonna make me just

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buy all the whispers and rumors again. I'm never gonna

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I'm always gonna be like just not a conspiracy theorist,

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but like, I'm not gonna dismiss that stuff again. It's

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just as refueled that tank.

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Speaker 3: We got it.

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Speaker 1: I think let's to the extent possible. I think we

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got to kind of take an organized approach to this. So,

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starting with the Knicks, I think the biggest question has

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to be because this is a somewhat by necessity because

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you don't have a healthy center, but it's a win

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now move, obviously for a team that fancies itself a

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title contender, like just top down, Does this make the

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Knicks a bigger threat to win the East and win

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a championship this year?

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Speaker 3: I don't know.

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Speaker 2: That's my honest answer is they are. Karlnthy Towns, I

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think is a talent upgrade in a vacuum from Julius Randall,

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who has made to all NBA teams. He's he's made

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All Star teams. I think that he's probably the better

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when he's healthy on ball offensive player, Karl Anthony Towns

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stretches the floor in a way that, yes, I think

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you could actually look at it. Carl town didn't take

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a ton of threes last year. Julius Randall attempted five

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point three per game before he was injured. Klnthon Town's

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also attempted five point three per game. And so I

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do think there's this misconception that karlnthy Town's just like

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launches a ton of threes. It's the threat level that respect,

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which is why.

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Speaker 3: He's so interesting.

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Speaker 2: And I would argue that because he's better as an

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off ball player. Offensively, just the idea of running this

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Jallen brunts and focused offense where a lot of the

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times you're gonna be even with Josh Hart that's five out,

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like that could count as five out or at.

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Speaker 3: Least close to it. I think that's appealing.

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Speaker 2: What I don't. It's not that I don't understand. I mean,

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on long term, we'll have to get a me implication

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to that. But like paying Karl Anthony Towns, like the

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balance of the four years of his contracts a lot

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of money, and I'm sure this leads me to believe

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that McHale Bridges is going to sign a cheap extension

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because Jalen Brunson already signed one, and like that's just

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in my head.

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Speaker 3: So there's that part of it.

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Speaker 2: I the depth of it all makes me a little

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concerned now because you can look at this roster and say, Okay,

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Josh hart og Anaobi, Karl Anthony Towns, Jalen Brunson, and

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McHale Bridges, that is what the second no worse than

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the third best starting five in basketball right now behind

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Boston and perhaps Denver if you still want to throw

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them in there. So that is just like that is huge,

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But after that, it's okay, Mitchell Robinson's already injured and

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at this point, look, he's dealt with so many stuff,

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so much stuff, like you kind of just have to

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write it off as gravy if he gives you anything

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like that's just an added bonus, but still so if

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you're healthy of Mitchell Robinson and maybe look, Town's just

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played with Gobert, so maybe you can play those two together.

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Then you have Deuce McBride and then it's kind of like, okay,

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like what is yeah.

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Speaker 3: You are?

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Speaker 2: You are very susceptible to injuries. And I would argue

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we're that way before. And my final point, because I'm

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ramdling here before I throw it to you, is I

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do just wonder. I think that Carl Anthony Towns, he

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can do a lot of stuff on ball. When he

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gets going downhill, you can funnel things through him in

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the post, and I think from a fit perspective, he's

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better because he's easier. Where's Julius Randall? Even as he

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got better at the accessory work that wasn't his natural state.

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But I do wonder now I still believe, and maybe

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I am wrong, that Julius Randall has the higher ceiling

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as even if you want to say a hub a

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secondary frum scratch creator and you really need to buy

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into the idea that, okay, especially with Dante DiVincenzo not

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there either, that McHale Bridges and Karl Anthony Towns are

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enough to fill that pocket behind Jalen bruns It.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think. I think I echo basically everything you

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said as far as the sort of Teeter todd or like,

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well this is good, but then also not this, and

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then this raises this problem, but it solves this other one.

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I think the two things that are most interesting to

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me are the burden that this puts on Jalen Brunson,

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who was already carrying a really heavy one, because all

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we talked about and I think all just one of

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the main storylines for the Knicks was like, Julius Randall's

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really important. You've been saying this forever just because like

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he's the other guy, right that can make a play

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in that offense. And if you don't want to have

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Brunson be the be all end All just constantly and

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need him to be now, maybe Bridges alleviates a little

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bit of that, sure, but like losing Randall as a playmaker,

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which like, I don't think there's a conversation to be

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had about always town like Towns has been a four

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ish assist guy per per game like in the past,

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but certainly not recently. Randal just was the other guy

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that was gonna make plays and generate offense, so he's

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not there. The trade off though, is, like you said, Towns,

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And this is where the kind of the most intriguing

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aspect of this for me arises is Towns is that

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spacing threat and is a five. He will be the

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five at least as a starter here. And I view

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this through the prism of how do we beat the Celtics.

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And I think one of the key elements here is

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if you have Towns at center, and let's presume Kristaps

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Porzingis is healthy, he's got to come out of the

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lane because you can't leave Towns out there. Now, maybe

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you switch, maybe you put him on somebody in the

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short corner, but basically, anyone else the Knicks have out

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there is going to be a huge threat to hit threes.

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Maybe Josh Hart's the guy you stashed Porzingis on. But

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I think those are the sorts of high level like

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concerns and tactical issues you have to think about with

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a move like this, because like whether it's intentional or not,

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the bridges and anonobe pieces are like, well that's for

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Jalen Brown and Jason Tatum, like those are okay, got

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that covered? What do we do about porzingis just lurking

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in the lane if we're playing Mitchell Robinson, even if

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we're playing Julius Randall at the five, like he's just

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gonna hang out in there and we're not. Brunson's gonna

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have a hell of a time of getting anything done

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where he likes to work, which is near the basket.

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So I think that the theory of Towns as like

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a major offensive upgrade over Randall while losing the playmaking side,

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is that he's just can't you can't leave him out there.

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And if the goal, if you're trying to beat Boston,

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I think a key to that is getting porzingis away

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from the bucket as much as possible. So I think

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that's really fascinating. I do wonder though, like Towns has

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been a decent offensive rebounder years ago, but the more

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stretch he's providing on offense, the less he's gonna offensive rebound.

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And he's been bad at that in the past. And

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the Knicks live and die with offensive boards, or at

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least they have it previously. So like it's just a

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trade off, right, Like you're getting some new elements that

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you didn't have before. You join Boston and actually, to

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kind of a weird extent, the Sixers and that you

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have a center that's gonna be a spacing shooting threat

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because thenbid can do that stuff. It's so like maybe

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that's just a prerequisite to contending in the East. Now

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you just have to have that piece in your offense.

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But man, the defensive stuff's it's it's iffy to me

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if you just assume Robinson is a backup now or

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is not healthy or whatever. I just there's so much

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apparently so much give and take, right, That's why I'm

238
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with you in that, Like I'm not sure. I just

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there's so I'm so I guess the takeaway ultimately is

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like I'm fascinated to see sort of how this looks

241
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on the floor.

242
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Speaker 3: The other aspect of it.

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Speaker 2: And you mentioned the offensive rebounded, which was great, and

244
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now I guess they it's not that it was independent

245
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of that, but they were kind of getting forced out

246
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of that identity to but get not forced out. We'll

247
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see how they still do with it. But Hartenstein's gone,

248
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Mitchellton's not.

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Speaker 1: Gonna be ready to we're going to get that anyway.

250
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Speaker 3: So it's tough to look at it.

251
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Speaker 2: Through that lens and if you really want to, you

252
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could play Towns and Mitchell Robinson together and I would say, look,

253
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what's very interesting is the other thing too, is defensively

254
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now and again that always Mitchell Robinson injured, Hartenstein gone, that.

255
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Speaker 3: Was something that was always going to be an issue.

256
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Speaker 2: I will say this, I've been very hard on Karl

257
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Anthony Towns in the past, but we were also both

258
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pretty adamant that he got a lot better defensively last year.

259
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And I'm just curious though, if that holds up when

260
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now you are back to being the primary big and

261
00:12:05,120 --> 00:12:09,320
I will say I'm not pessimistic on it holding up.

262
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So the Wolves, when Town's played at center without naseried

263
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or Rudy Gobert on the court, the offense was awful,

264
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but I think he saw a lot of those minutes

265
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did not come with Anthony Edwards on the court. A

266
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one oh three point one defensive rating, that's the ninety

267
00:12:22,759 --> 00:12:25,159
nine percentile. And you can say, well, like, look, you

268
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don't have Anthony Edwards and Jane McDaniels here and or

269
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Niki Alexander Walker. That is very true. The knicksav McHale Bridges,

270
00:12:32,080 --> 00:12:35,600
O G. Ananobi Josh Hart. So it's not it's not

271
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a perfect analog, But I look at this and say,

272
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what the concern would be is can Krlnky towns.

273
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Speaker 3: Do the base rim protection stuff.

274
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Speaker 2: I actually thought he did a lot better kind of

275
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on the ball in space and making reads in space.

276
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But when you are the back line guy, can he

277
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handle that? And if he can, can he handle it

278
00:12:52,559 --> 00:12:56,240
for extended stretches now, And that's going to be the

279
00:12:56,320 --> 00:12:59,639
big question for me. I'm a little bit more optimate

280
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if you would if they made this trade last summer,

281
00:13:01,759 --> 00:13:04,000
let's just say, I would have been so pessivemit saying

282
00:13:04,000 --> 00:13:06,000
obviously Mchael Bridges ogn Oobe would have been on the

283
00:13:06,080 --> 00:13:08,600
roster then. But just knowing what we know about towns,

284
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I do think however, that's going to be a concern.

285
00:13:11,320 --> 00:13:14,399
Maybe it does help that, okay, ogn Andobi. I think

286
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people have kind of when we were talking about Randall

287
00:13:16,399 --> 00:13:18,480
and Og is kind of like your hybrid four or

288
00:13:18,519 --> 00:13:21,399
five switching on either end of the court. Og has

289
00:13:21,440 --> 00:13:23,960
never been like a cap slock. I can be the

290
00:13:24,000 --> 00:13:26,320
big man guy, but he can do it. But now

291
00:13:26,360 --> 00:13:28,399
you do have towns, so like we've seen him kind

292
00:13:28,399 --> 00:13:32,159
of defend Jokic pretty well in the past, and in

293
00:13:32,240 --> 00:13:33,919
so far as you can defend Yokich, well, I want

294
00:13:33,919 --> 00:13:35,600
to make that clear. Kakole Yoak is the best player

295
00:13:35,600 --> 00:13:38,320
in the world, and now ojob like he can do

296
00:13:38,399 --> 00:13:41,279
like the low man like help rim protection stuff and

297
00:13:41,360 --> 00:13:44,600
so my but my first thought is what does this

298
00:13:44,639 --> 00:13:45,639
look like defensively?

299
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Speaker 3: Now?

300
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Speaker 2: However, I do think we're seeing a lot more. Look

301
00:13:48,600 --> 00:13:51,519
at New Orleans, look at Houston where doesn't it feel

302
00:13:51,519 --> 00:13:54,240
like teams maybe even Boston to some extent, where they're

303
00:13:54,279 --> 00:13:56,840
building their defense when you look at the personnel from

304
00:13:56,840 --> 00:13:57,559
the outside in.

305
00:13:58,159 --> 00:13:59,559
Speaker 3: And that's also what this feels like a.

306
00:13:59,519 --> 00:14:02,000
Speaker 2: Little bit of a bet on. And again I don't

307
00:14:02,039 --> 00:14:05,720
know how much it matters because Mitchell Robinson wasn't going

308
00:14:05,759 --> 00:14:07,399
to be healthy anyway, and Harmstead was not.

309
00:14:07,879 --> 00:14:09,799
Speaker 1: Yeah, so one of the things I started to think

310
00:14:09,799 --> 00:14:13,320
about is like, well, have you just given opponents, particularly

311
00:14:13,360 --> 00:14:17,639
in the playoffs, a Brunson Towns duo to attack just

312
00:14:17,720 --> 00:14:20,320
with pick and rolls? Because Brunson's size is an issue,

313
00:14:20,360 --> 00:14:22,320
like and he's just going to be you can't expect

314
00:14:22,360 --> 00:14:24,480
him to make a major defensive impact because of the

315
00:14:24,480 --> 00:14:27,759
offensive load that he carries. So okay, now is there

316
00:14:27,840 --> 00:14:31,279
just did you just make it easy? Mort's popping in,

317
00:14:31,840 --> 00:14:38,840
yes we should Mort, oh man, I think so. But

318
00:14:38,879 --> 00:14:41,279
then it's it's kind of what you alluded to. It's like, okay, yeah,

319
00:14:41,320 --> 00:14:44,519
the town's Brunson picking like maybe you have to hide

320
00:14:44,559 --> 00:14:47,639
town somewhere else now and Anonobe mitigates some of that issue.

321
00:14:47,639 --> 00:14:49,440
But like that was going to be an issue with

322
00:14:49,519 --> 00:14:52,600
Randall and and Brunson, right, like you just have you

323
00:14:52,679 --> 00:14:55,120
keep you keep having to think, like at least for

324
00:14:55,159 --> 00:14:58,799
a couple months, probably more. Mitchell Robinson wasn't going to

325
00:14:58,840 --> 00:15:02,240
be involved. So when you're talking about is this a

326
00:15:02,279 --> 00:15:05,080
defensive issue? Is this an upgrade a downgrade, it's like

327
00:15:05,480 --> 00:15:08,080
you're weighing that against Julius Randall at center in a

328
00:15:08,159 --> 00:15:10,919
lot of cases, right, and so like, yeah, Towns is

329
00:15:10,960 --> 00:15:13,000
not known as a defender, but he's a lot bigger

330
00:15:13,000 --> 00:15:15,840
than Randall, and he has anchored defenses for Thibodeaux before

331
00:15:16,000 --> 00:15:20,480
I use anchored almost making you know what anchors do?

332
00:15:20,519 --> 00:15:24,120
They sink? And like he's saying that, like I was

333
00:15:24,159 --> 00:15:26,919
looking back hoping to see like all those sixteen seventeen

334
00:15:26,960 --> 00:15:30,159
and seventeen eighteen wolves when you know, TIB's two full years.

335
00:15:30,200 --> 00:15:32,480
They're just hoping to see, like, you know, what Towns

336
00:15:32,519 --> 00:15:36,440
actually was pretty Nope, their defenses were bad. Uh, they

337
00:15:36,799 --> 00:15:39,840
looked okay. The on off stuff looks okay with Towns

338
00:15:39,840 --> 00:15:43,200
in there, but in seventeen eighteen, But that's because Gorgie

339
00:15:43,279 --> 00:15:45,879
Jang was the backup center and the Wolves got housed

340
00:15:45,960 --> 00:15:49,200
whenever he was the center on defense. So there's not

341
00:15:49,320 --> 00:15:52,120
a lot of evidence to say like Towns is objectively

342
00:15:52,200 --> 00:15:56,480
going to be a very good back line guy. You're

343
00:15:56,519 --> 00:15:59,080
weighing this against what Julius Randall probably would have done,

344
00:15:59,159 --> 00:16:02,039
or what some sub replacement level center would have done,

345
00:16:02,360 --> 00:16:04,519
or you know, and maybe the fifteen minutes of Mitchell

346
00:16:04,559 --> 00:16:07,240
Robinson in there per game when he's healthy will be better.

347
00:16:07,759 --> 00:16:10,519
But like the bar's low, that Towns will have to

348
00:16:10,559 --> 00:16:13,639
clear to not be like a defensive downgrade, if that

349
00:16:13,679 --> 00:16:14,200
makes sense.

350
00:16:15,480 --> 00:16:18,039
Speaker 2: So you mentioned Tibbs, who I guess has been complimentary

351
00:16:18,080 --> 00:16:20,279
of him recently but didn't feel like he was when

352
00:16:20,279 --> 00:16:22,480
they were in Minnesota the first time around. So that

353
00:16:23,559 --> 00:16:25,759
is another element of that that's fascinating, And it's also from.

354
00:16:25,679 --> 00:16:28,519
Speaker 3: The Tibbs perspective. We have pushed backed.

355
00:16:28,279 --> 00:16:30,039
Speaker 2: Against this, So anyone who is gonna be listening to

356
00:16:30,080 --> 00:16:31,679
this after the fact of a couple people that are

357
00:16:31,679 --> 00:16:35,559
in here right now, he's still married to the way

358
00:16:35,559 --> 00:16:37,360
that he views Biggs. Like he's been a lot more

359
00:16:37,360 --> 00:16:40,240
flexible over the past couple seasons that we've acknowledged, this

360
00:16:40,399 --> 00:16:44,240
is just an absurd departure from what he likes to

361
00:16:44,279 --> 00:16:48,360
do at center. And again, Hartenstein was gone, Robinson was injured.

362
00:16:48,440 --> 00:16:50,679
It was going to be that way anyway, but now

363
00:16:50,720 --> 00:16:53,600
you've said, well, it's never basically not going to be

364
00:16:53,720 --> 00:16:56,960
this way, because look, maybe Mitchell Robinson confee Town's play together,

365
00:16:57,039 --> 00:16:59,360
or Mitchell Robinson comes back and you can at least

366
00:16:59,360 --> 00:17:01,360
go to the backup role with that. There could be

367
00:17:01,399 --> 00:17:04,640
other moves where they get another big But like, if

368
00:17:04,640 --> 00:17:06,839
we're being honest, the way that you're built and how

369
00:17:07,240 --> 00:17:09,960
your other foremost important players are, Like, well, why wouldn't

370
00:17:10,000 --> 00:17:11,599
we Like, are you just gonna bring Josh Hard off

371
00:17:11,599 --> 00:17:14,319
the bench to start Mesroell Robinson or another center. I

372
00:17:14,359 --> 00:17:15,680
don't know why you would do that, because I think

373
00:17:15,720 --> 00:17:18,359
that'd be a downgrade for your offense. It's like, this

374
00:17:18,400 --> 00:17:21,680
is a really stark departure from what Timms likes to

375
00:17:21,720 --> 00:17:24,559
see from his bigs, and I'm just I will be

376
00:17:24,599 --> 00:17:26,920
interested to see how the Knicks defend because I think

377
00:17:26,920 --> 00:17:29,599
he's gonna need to show I mean at both ends too,

378
00:17:29,799 --> 00:17:32,119
Like a Hartenstein is someone who yeah, okay, we saw

379
00:17:32,200 --> 00:17:34,440
him break out the floater every now and then, but

380
00:17:34,480 --> 00:17:36,319
like that's someone who could do more from the perimeter

381
00:17:36,400 --> 00:17:39,279
on offense that just didn't with the Knicks. And now

382
00:17:39,319 --> 00:17:42,279
you just I'm just so fascinated this from the Thibodeau

383
00:17:42,519 --> 00:17:44,240
of it all. But like this is just not what

384
00:17:44,319 --> 00:17:46,720
he likes to do, how he likes to run his

385
00:17:46,759 --> 00:17:50,039
teams when you're looking at like not five out but

386
00:17:50,119 --> 00:17:52,960
like having that big man in Towns being a floor

387
00:17:53,000 --> 00:17:55,480
space or more than like a traditional conventional center.

388
00:17:55,759 --> 00:17:58,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, if he figures out, I mean figures out, Like

389
00:17:58,079 --> 00:18:01,240
if this goes fairly smoothly and we really do see

390
00:18:01,440 --> 00:18:04,400
very little of Robinson and Towns together, I think we

391
00:18:04,440 --> 00:18:06,680
probably need to retire the idea that Tibbs is like

392
00:18:07,160 --> 00:18:10,440
not malleable tactically anymore. Like this is going to be

393
00:18:10,480 --> 00:18:13,759
a real departure, real challenge, I think, just based on

394
00:18:13,880 --> 00:18:17,480
like what you said about his track record exaggerated as

395
00:18:17,519 --> 00:18:21,279
some of that like inflexibility maybe now versus like five

396
00:18:21,359 --> 00:18:24,440
years ago. Before we get to the I don't know

397
00:18:24,480 --> 00:18:26,680
if you have any other like major Knicks thoughts. We

398
00:18:26,720 --> 00:18:28,519
do need to discuss the wolf side of this, because

399
00:18:28,519 --> 00:18:30,680
I think, if anything, it might be even more interesting.

400
00:18:30,960 --> 00:18:33,759
But before we do that, what did you just think

401
00:18:33,880 --> 00:18:37,440
of just just the package that it cost or what

402
00:18:37,920 --> 00:18:40,039
the Knicks had to give up to get Towns, Because

403
00:18:41,079 --> 00:18:43,000
you know, I guess depending on when you might have

404
00:18:43,079 --> 00:18:47,640
had this hypothetical discussion, one kind of first that probably

405
00:18:47,839 --> 00:18:50,240
probably is going to turn into a second if it

406
00:18:50,240 --> 00:18:53,359
doesn't convey in the next three drafts, which is I

407
00:18:53,400 --> 00:18:53,839
don't know.

408
00:18:53,839 --> 00:18:58,359
Speaker 2: Top top nine protection in twenty sevens Allee, right, maybe.

409
00:18:58,000 --> 00:19:01,720
Speaker 1: But then just DiVincenzo, who you know would have been

410
00:19:01,759 --> 00:19:05,119
a bench player probably but phenomenal contract, great value. And

411
00:19:05,240 --> 00:19:09,400
Randall who kind of like didn't seem to fit literally anywhere,

412
00:19:09,440 --> 00:19:11,920
Like that was a real topic in NBA discourse of like,

413
00:19:12,000 --> 00:19:14,279
he doesn't fit anywhere, there's no way to trade this guy.

414
00:19:14,440 --> 00:19:16,759
And then when it happened, I was kind of like, oh, yeah,

415
00:19:16,799 --> 00:19:19,079
Minnesota does sort of make sense if you had to

416
00:19:19,119 --> 00:19:21,160
like really pick a team. I mean, none of them

417
00:19:21,200 --> 00:19:23,240
make great sense. But what did you think of the pack, Like,

418
00:19:23,480 --> 00:19:26,079
were you surprised that that was the cost for Towns

419
00:19:26,160 --> 00:19:28,079
or that that's what the Wolves were willing to take

420
00:19:28,160 --> 00:19:29,559
back to give up Towns.

421
00:19:30,000 --> 00:19:32,359
Speaker 2: No, because just the deal extends so far out, and

422
00:19:32,400 --> 00:19:34,599
I think that we knew they were gonna reconcile with

423
00:19:34,839 --> 00:19:37,599
the Second Apron at some point. I just didn't expect

424
00:19:37,599 --> 00:19:39,079
it to be when they came off probably the best

425
00:19:39,079 --> 00:19:41,559
season in franchise history and had a real And so

426
00:19:41,680 --> 00:19:43,400
before we get to them, it's this is part of

427
00:19:43,440 --> 00:19:46,599
the package talk with the Knicks. The implications here are

428
00:19:46,599 --> 00:19:48,640
a little bit fascinating. So as of right now, Grant,

429
00:19:48,720 --> 00:19:51,319
they projected me about nine point seven million below the

430
00:19:51,359 --> 00:19:51,960
Second Apron.

431
00:19:52,079 --> 00:19:52,920
Speaker 3: This is next year.

432
00:19:53,440 --> 00:19:56,359
Speaker 2: And so that's with kat Og, Jalen Brunson, McHale, Bridges,

433
00:19:56,440 --> 00:20:01,240
Josh Hart, Mitchell Robinson, Deuce McBride, Pacoma Dottie, and Tyler.

434
00:20:01,039 --> 00:20:01,920
Speaker 3: Kollak on the books.

435
00:20:01,960 --> 00:20:05,759
Speaker 2: So nine guys, So there is some wiggle room there.

436
00:20:06,200 --> 00:20:07,839
You just you look at those players. I guess Mitchell

437
00:20:07,880 --> 00:20:10,119
Robinson is the only one that makes real money, and

438
00:20:10,119 --> 00:20:12,759
I guess you could view as expendable, But like that

439
00:20:12,920 --> 00:20:16,039
is something I think having Towns on the books, because

440
00:20:16,079 --> 00:20:18,039
if let's just say Julius Randad picked up his player

441
00:20:18,079 --> 00:20:21,240
option and then you still Dante DiVincenzo. You to me,

442
00:20:21,319 --> 00:20:23,319
I've viewed it through the lens of you've decided that

443
00:20:23,799 --> 00:20:26,359
paying Karl Anthony Towns, let's say, between seven and ten

444
00:20:26,440 --> 00:20:30,720
million more than those two put together is worth it. Now,

445
00:20:30,759 --> 00:20:33,160
the other thing you could have said is Julius Randall's

446
00:20:33,200 --> 00:20:35,119
gonna decline his player option and wants more money.

447
00:20:35,200 --> 00:20:35,680
Speaker 3: I want to know.

448
00:20:35,599 --> 00:20:38,359
Speaker 2: Where he's getting that more money from, quite frankly, especially

449
00:20:38,400 --> 00:20:41,279
after we saw how the trademark hat unfolded for him.

450
00:20:41,480 --> 00:20:43,559
But they could have also viewed it through well, he's

451
00:20:43,559 --> 00:20:46,319
gonna make at least thirty five million, and then plus

452
00:20:46,359 --> 00:20:48,400
Dante Divincenzo's bit, let's call it a wash. So the

453
00:20:48,440 --> 00:20:51,079
Towns is making about the same with those players. That's fine,

454
00:20:51,119 --> 00:20:53,400
But I do think because towns of salary is so

455
00:20:53,519 --> 00:20:57,599
massive moving forward, this is something you're gonna have to reconcile.

456
00:20:59,000 --> 00:20:59,240
Speaker 3: One.

457
00:20:59,440 --> 00:21:01,519
Speaker 2: I give an it front off his credit because they've

458
00:21:01,519 --> 00:21:03,720
now this is like this third or second the second

459
00:21:03,720 --> 00:21:06,119
time this offseason they've used the kind of sign and

460
00:21:06,160 --> 00:21:08,480
trade these guys that aren't rotation players use these extra

461
00:21:08,559 --> 00:21:11,160
roster spots. Going after Landry Shammitt, by the way, now

462
00:21:11,240 --> 00:21:13,359
makes a whole lot more sense that Dante Divincenzo's out

463
00:21:13,359 --> 00:21:16,160
of town. So there's creativity. But they're gonna have to

464
00:21:16,200 --> 00:21:20,160
be even more creative moving forward sooner, I think than

465
00:21:20,359 --> 00:21:22,839
we were expecting, because I do think part of us

466
00:21:22,880 --> 00:21:24,960
thought that if they traded Randall might just be for

467
00:21:25,000 --> 00:21:28,119
a cheaper player or cheaper collection of players, rather than

468
00:21:28,400 --> 00:21:31,640
another consolidation move. I think that's not the cost what

469
00:21:31,720 --> 00:21:34,440
it was for towns that felt about right okay, But

470
00:21:34,799 --> 00:21:36,519
and that might be a good segue into the Timberwolves,

471
00:21:36,519 --> 00:21:37,720
if you want to head in the Timberwolves. But for

472
00:21:37,720 --> 00:21:40,200
the Nick specifically, I think, and I don't know this

473
00:21:40,279 --> 00:21:42,000
will maybe it's the last part of the X. Were

474
00:21:42,039 --> 00:21:44,640
you surprised they went the consolidation route in a Julius

475
00:21:44,720 --> 00:21:45,480
Randall trade?

476
00:21:48,440 --> 00:21:52,839
Speaker 1: Yes, and no, I guess those are the two answers. Well,

477
00:21:53,079 --> 00:21:55,279
what's strange is like I guess I had been thinking

478
00:21:55,319 --> 00:21:59,000
of Randal as someone that you I don't know, not

479
00:21:59,039 --> 00:22:01,200
a distressed asset. But it's like the fit was just

480
00:22:01,240 --> 00:22:04,079
so hard, So like I guess my thinking would maybe

481
00:22:04,119 --> 00:22:07,440
mostly No, I'm not surprised it was a consolidation move

482
00:22:07,440 --> 00:22:09,279
because I think if you're trying to move Randall and

483
00:22:09,359 --> 00:22:11,839
before the Wolves, the Wolves just weren't on my radar

484
00:22:11,880 --> 00:22:15,279
frankly as a Randall destination, but generally speaking, because he's

485
00:22:15,279 --> 00:22:16,880
such a weird fit. I thought maybe you were going

486
00:22:16,960 --> 00:22:19,519
to have to attach something else, and maybe that something

487
00:22:19,559 --> 00:22:22,119
else was another player, which I guess technically makes it

488
00:22:22,960 --> 00:22:25,680
a consolidation trade to move him. So I didn't ever

489
00:22:25,720 --> 00:22:28,799
think there'd be the Knicks trade Randal someplace and get

490
00:22:28,839 --> 00:22:30,559
back like two or three guys. Like I didn't. I

491
00:22:30,559 --> 00:22:32,880
didn't think that that was realistic, unless it was just

492
00:22:32,920 --> 00:22:36,279
like bad salary or whatever. I really want to get

493
00:22:36,279 --> 00:22:39,200
your opinion on the Wolf side of this, because we

494
00:22:39,319 --> 00:22:41,640
have praised them. First of all, we said, like, you've

495
00:22:41,640 --> 00:22:44,000
got forever to figure out the second apron stuff. The

496
00:22:44,240 --> 00:22:47,799
town's trade doesn't need to happen, now, do you what?

497
00:22:48,640 --> 00:22:51,279
It's not a yes or no. How much of this

498
00:22:51,440 --> 00:22:53,839
was financial from the Wolf side and how much of

499
00:22:53,880 --> 00:22:56,799
it was We think this makes us better because the

500
00:22:57,200 --> 00:23:00,960
latter concern. I think we thought we thought they cared

501
00:23:00,960 --> 00:23:03,839
about the latter, you know, like we thought they didn't.

502
00:23:03,880 --> 00:23:06,839
They weren't worried about the money. That's why they weren't

503
00:23:06,839 --> 00:23:09,640
going to trade Towns. So do you think this is

504
00:23:09,640 --> 00:23:12,079
a financial move or do you think they sat down

505
00:23:12,079 --> 00:23:15,200
and said, like with Randall and Devincenzo, here's the path

506
00:23:15,240 --> 00:23:18,519
to us being better this season than we were with Towns.

507
00:23:20,240 --> 00:23:22,480
Speaker 3: I so that's going to be a matter of course

508
00:23:22,480 --> 00:23:23,079
in the sense that.

509
00:23:23,119 --> 00:23:26,480
Speaker 2: If you want to this spin is already started, and

510
00:23:27,000 --> 00:23:29,039
I'm just here to tell you stop the spin, like

511
00:23:29,079 --> 00:23:32,400
because I'm sorry. Through the lens of a playoff series,

512
00:23:32,440 --> 00:23:34,799
the Wolves just got to me a lot worse. Okay,

513
00:23:34,839 --> 00:23:35,720
and we'll get to that.

514
00:23:35,759 --> 00:23:37,640
Speaker 3: But the financial if you believe.

515
00:23:37,359 --> 00:23:40,279
Speaker 2: That you're better, then Julius Randa will still be there

516
00:23:40,799 --> 00:23:44,440
after next season. And if he's not, then this was

517
00:23:44,599 --> 00:23:47,039
and you just let him walk or you're like he

518
00:23:47,200 --> 00:23:48,960
picked maybe he picks up his player option and that's

519
00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:52,079
the end result. But if this wasn't purely financially motivated,

520
00:23:52,440 --> 00:23:55,319
Julius Randa will still be in Minnesota next season. Ok

521
00:23:55,480 --> 00:23:57,960
And I think they looked at this and said from

522
00:23:58,000 --> 00:24:00,839
I Doantin Devincenzo had a great year, the most dangerous

523
00:24:00,839 --> 00:24:03,279
three point shooters in the league, so that helps your

524
00:24:03,279 --> 00:24:04,880
floor spacing, can give you a little bit of on

525
00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:07,240
ball creativity. And I already said I think Randall's the

526
00:24:07,279 --> 00:24:11,839
better on ball offensive player, and this does insulate Rob

527
00:24:11,920 --> 00:24:15,240
Dillingham against a ton of pressure to be the second

528
00:24:15,279 --> 00:24:17,880
or third best creator on the team right away. But

529
00:24:18,079 --> 00:24:20,039
Julius Randall hit thirty five percent of his spot up

530
00:24:20,079 --> 00:24:22,039
threes last year and didn't take a ton of them,

531
00:24:22,200 --> 00:24:24,640
and so like that's going to be a downgrade.

532
00:24:24,920 --> 00:24:26,079
Speaker 3: And when he's used.

533
00:24:25,960 --> 00:24:27,480
Speaker 2: To working with the ball, if you want to play

534
00:24:27,559 --> 00:24:30,400
him with Gobert like and then Edwards is on the court,

535
00:24:31,039 --> 00:24:34,759
that it does create what I think could be an

536
00:24:34,799 --> 00:24:39,519
awkward dynamic there and they'll be fine defensively, Like I'm

537
00:24:39,559 --> 00:24:41,640
not I'm not too worried about that. And if anything,

538
00:24:41,799 --> 00:24:43,880
I've I've kind of thought like, do you start nas

539
00:24:43,960 --> 00:24:45,559
Reed and bring Julius Randall.

540
00:24:45,279 --> 00:24:45,799
Speaker 3: Off the bench.

541
00:24:46,559 --> 00:24:50,599
Speaker 2: But is that that would even be more financially motivated

542
00:24:50,640 --> 00:24:52,759
to me? Because well, then clearly Julius Randall's not going

543
00:24:52,799 --> 00:24:54,559
to stick around there if he's only going to guarantee

544
00:24:54,559 --> 00:24:57,160
to be a sixth or seventh man. I think they

545
00:24:57,200 --> 00:24:59,480
looked at this as they did. We'll see look By

546
00:24:59,519 --> 00:25:01,720
the way, they're as we're recording this, I think like

547
00:25:01,839 --> 00:25:06,119
thirteen and about thirteen million away from ducking the second

548
00:25:06,160 --> 00:25:10,160
Apron entirely. It was that next season that I have

549
00:25:10,240 --> 00:25:13,319
the mark down for. They're inside fourteen million of ducking

550
00:25:13,319 --> 00:25:15,200
the second Apron entirely, and so like, I don't know

551
00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:16,880
how much how important that is to them, but if

552
00:25:16,880 --> 00:25:18,839
they wind up, they could get out of the second

553
00:25:18,880 --> 00:25:21,359
Apron if they wanted to. Now, however, I think they

554
00:25:21,440 --> 00:25:24,680
looked at it moving forward and said, forget about ruegal

555
00:25:24,720 --> 00:25:26,240
Bert for a minute, because he has that player option,

556
00:25:26,279 --> 00:25:28,200
maybe picks up. Maybe there's an extension. You have a

557
00:25:28,240 --> 00:25:31,200
Niki Alexander Walker entering free agency. Nas Reed has a

558
00:25:31,200 --> 00:25:33,640
player option that I expect him to decline. I think

559
00:25:33,640 --> 00:25:35,759
they looked at it and said, does it make more

560
00:25:35,799 --> 00:25:38,119
sense for us to pay Dante DiVincenzo, nas Reed and

561
00:25:38,160 --> 00:25:41,880
Nikil Alexander Walker fifty million total or does it make

562
00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:44,440
more sense to have Karl Anthony Towns on the books

563
00:25:44,440 --> 00:25:47,240
for fifty million total. I By the way, it doesn't

564
00:25:47,279 --> 00:25:49,720
need to be in either or a proposition. These people

565
00:25:49,720 --> 00:25:52,240
could just pay. You could have kept the Kile Alexander Walker,

566
00:25:52,319 --> 00:25:55,680
Nazried and Karl Anthony Towns. So I think and I

567
00:25:55,680 --> 00:25:57,599
don't what do you think about that? Like, I think

568
00:25:57,720 --> 00:26:01,240
that's the calculus they made because I don't know. Dante

569
00:26:01,279 --> 00:26:04,119
DiVincenzo is an upgrade. And again I think you get

570
00:26:04,160 --> 00:26:06,960
more on ball creativity from Julius Random. We talked about

571
00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:09,359
the need for more shot creation from them, but when

572
00:26:09,359 --> 00:26:11,519
that shot creation comes in the form of someone who

573
00:26:11,640 --> 00:26:14,799
isn't quite plug and play, I don't want to say

574
00:26:14,799 --> 00:26:17,640
it's problematic, but it definitely introduces question.

575
00:26:19,039 --> 00:26:23,640
Speaker 1: So I guess to answer my own question, I'm not ready.

576
00:26:24,240 --> 00:26:27,480
I think the most logical sort of take on the

577
00:26:27,519 --> 00:26:30,759
deal is that there there is a financial component, like

578
00:26:30,799 --> 00:26:34,880
that is some percentage of the motivating of the motivating

579
00:26:34,920 --> 00:26:39,279
force behind doing a deal like this. That said, I

580
00:26:39,359 --> 00:26:42,440
do think, now maybe this is kind of Devil's Advocate,

581
00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:45,160
But the case you would make as the Wolves, if

582
00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:48,240
you're saying, no, this was a basketball move, is we

583
00:26:48,359 --> 00:26:52,200
think that the added shooting of Devincenzo, who made almost

584
00:26:52,279 --> 00:26:54,039
what was like two hundred and ninety eight threes or

585
00:26:54,079 --> 00:26:56,960
something like just made a million threes last year, the

586
00:26:57,000 --> 00:27:01,119
addition of that to our offense, skiing up nas Reed,

587
00:27:01,200 --> 00:27:03,960
who like does a pretty good cat impression, and like

588
00:27:04,079 --> 00:27:05,640
there was a lot of talk like, oh my god,

589
00:27:05,640 --> 00:27:08,079
if you just gave him Cat's minutes last year, Like

590
00:27:08,200 --> 00:27:10,640
he's pretty close to to like what you get from

591
00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:12,720
that position, right, He's like a four who can't really

592
00:27:12,759 --> 00:27:15,839
be a five? Space is the floor. It's like you

593
00:27:15,839 --> 00:27:17,480
get a lot of cat stuff there. And then the

594
00:27:17,559 --> 00:27:21,640
Randall piece of it is like, so just imagine, you know,

595
00:27:21,680 --> 00:27:23,799
you're not getting play making from Gobert, You're not getting

596
00:27:23,799 --> 00:27:27,519
play making from Jade McDaniels. Mike Conley is thirty eight

597
00:27:27,640 --> 00:27:29,480
or will turn thirty eight, I forget which it is,

598
00:27:29,519 --> 00:27:31,759
but like that's not a guy you can rely on,

599
00:27:32,519 --> 00:27:35,640
you know, for seventy five games playing thirty minutes, Like

600
00:27:36,400 --> 00:27:39,160
Edwards is getting there as a playmaker still kind of

601
00:27:39,200 --> 00:27:41,799
a like passing case of emergency kind of thinker as

602
00:27:41,799 --> 00:27:44,000
far as when he's on the ball. And then Dillingham's

603
00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:46,920
a rookie. So like the Randall playmaking side of it,

604
00:27:47,759 --> 00:27:50,480
paired with the shooting you will get from more nas

605
00:27:50,559 --> 00:27:53,039
Reed and the addition of Devincenzo, it's like, maybe that

606
00:27:53,160 --> 00:27:55,839
is better than the seventeenth ranked offense, which is what

607
00:27:55,880 --> 00:27:58,920
the Wolves were last year, So like that's the case

608
00:27:58,960 --> 00:28:01,000
you'd make. I'm kind of making it tongue in cheek

609
00:28:01,039 --> 00:28:03,599
because like, if you just step a little bit ways

610
00:28:03,680 --> 00:28:05,920
back from it, you say, you gave up one of

611
00:28:05,960 --> 00:28:08,160
the best shooting bigs of all time and you sort

612
00:28:08,160 --> 00:28:10,039
of need that guy because you play a center who

613
00:28:10,039 --> 00:28:13,680
can't leave the paint, Like does any of the like,

614
00:28:13,960 --> 00:28:16,440
oh no, this was a basketball move justification I gave

615
00:28:16,559 --> 00:28:17,319
resonate with you.

616
00:28:18,319 --> 00:28:21,119
Speaker 2: I think you outlined like that you've made the case

617
00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:23,559
like there there is a scenario on which the Wolves

618
00:28:23,599 --> 00:28:27,519
come out better balanced and deeper from this. I just

619
00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:30,599
the Randal fit is and the way that the reporting

620
00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:33,680
is framed is that Dante DiVincenzo needed to be included

621
00:28:33,680 --> 00:28:35,759
in the deal for this to work. And so that

622
00:28:35,880 --> 00:28:40,160
just makes me question how much Minnesota actually believes in

623
00:28:40,240 --> 00:28:43,359
the Randall fit and like having Nas read here, and look,

624
00:28:43,400 --> 00:28:45,079
this is a fair question. I said, you could have

625
00:28:45,160 --> 00:28:49,480
paid kat Nas and Naw beyond next season. But if

626
00:28:49,480 --> 00:28:52,079
we're being realistic about it, would you rather have Karl

627
00:28:52,119 --> 00:28:56,079
Anthony Towns or Nas read Dante DiVincenzo and nekil Alexander.

628
00:28:55,680 --> 00:29:00,160
Speaker 1: Walker probably Cat I guess, oh really, I mean, like

629
00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:03,400
I just if you're it's it's a close question. I

630
00:29:03,480 --> 00:29:06,440
just like Ali, I love Alexander Walker, I like Read

631
00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:08,759
and Devincenzo's the third guy. I like all those guys.

632
00:29:08,839 --> 00:29:09,279
Speaker 3: I just.

633
00:29:10,759 --> 00:29:13,640
Speaker 1: It's I don't know, because if you're trying to win

634
00:29:13,680 --> 00:29:16,440
at the absolute highest level, don't you need a Don't

635
00:29:16,440 --> 00:29:19,640
the guys with like absolute premium skills matter more than

636
00:29:20,039 --> 00:29:21,799
three other guys who are I don't know.

637
00:29:21,839 --> 00:29:22,160
Speaker 3: I don't know.

638
00:29:22,200 --> 00:29:25,000
Speaker 1: Maybe Devincenzo is a premium skill guy. Now, like maybe

639
00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:26,720
that three point shooting really is premium.

640
00:29:26,759 --> 00:29:29,200
Speaker 2: Well that's the I think that's the case that Knicks fans,

641
00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:31,839
can you because look, by the way this is, I

642
00:29:31,839 --> 00:29:34,079
think this is also applied to the timberlves like conthey

643
00:29:34,119 --> 00:29:36,160
Towns like needed that three point volume to come up,

644
00:29:36,200 --> 00:29:37,759
and that's still the truth, Like it's a this is

645
00:29:37,799 --> 00:29:40,920
someone who should be in this day, this age should

646
00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:42,960
be at like ten threes a game. I'm like, I

647
00:29:42,960 --> 00:29:45,240
don't mean to you know, I hate oversimplifying things, but

648
00:29:45,279 --> 00:29:47,279
that's just the fact of the matter here. So if

649
00:29:47,319 --> 00:29:50,440
you appreciate Dante Devincenzo's volume, but I think Knicks fans

650
00:29:50,440 --> 00:29:52,880
could look at it and say, I mean some other fans.

651
00:29:52,880 --> 00:29:55,480
Bucks fans could certainly says no, the regression is coming,

652
00:29:55,960 --> 00:29:57,000
and so it's just like.

653
00:29:57,480 --> 00:29:59,519
Speaker 3: I I don't know.

654
00:29:59,559 --> 00:30:01,200
Speaker 2: I think I'm I would rather have those three in

655
00:30:01,240 --> 00:30:04,440
a vacuum than Cat. Okay, if I'm the Timberwolves. But again,

656
00:30:05,240 --> 00:30:08,640
none of those three can create Nasried. You've already said

657
00:30:08,640 --> 00:30:10,640
he does a good Coronathy Town's approximation. He is a

658
00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:14,319
great floor game. He's not as physical as Cat, and

659
00:30:14,359 --> 00:30:15,920
so I think that's where it's coming to play. But look,

660
00:30:15,960 --> 00:30:18,799
Cats had these erratic stretches in the playoffs, and it

661
00:30:18,839 --> 00:30:21,160
does I hate to make everything about money, but.

662
00:30:21,119 --> 00:30:22,400
Speaker 3: At the end of the day, it does come down

663
00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:23,000
to like, is.

664
00:30:22,960 --> 00:30:25,920
Speaker 2: This player worth thirty plus percent of the salary cap?

665
00:30:25,960 --> 00:30:27,799
And if you're not gonna I thought Cornthae Town showed

666
00:30:27,799 --> 00:30:29,160
a lot last year. I thought he had some really

667
00:30:29,200 --> 00:30:31,279
good playoff moments. I know there are and we'll get

668
00:30:31,319 --> 00:30:33,640
to some chats at the end when we wrap this up.

669
00:30:33,640 --> 00:30:34,960
I know there are some people in the chat who

670
00:30:35,160 --> 00:30:37,160
think that this is addition by subtraction.

671
00:30:36,799 --> 00:30:37,359
Speaker 1: For the Wolves.

672
00:30:38,039 --> 00:30:41,519
Speaker 2: I just he's an imperfect player, and so I understand

673
00:30:41,559 --> 00:30:44,480
the logic from Minnesota, but I find it very hard

674
00:30:44,519 --> 00:30:47,799
to believe that this is a move you make after

675
00:30:47,799 --> 00:30:52,519
the season you just had if it wasn't purely financially motivated.

676
00:30:52,279 --> 00:30:53,720
Speaker 3: Because then it's what is that?

677
00:30:53,960 --> 00:30:56,880
Speaker 2: And if you are, let's say it's not financially motivated,

678
00:30:56,920 --> 00:30:59,039
So you're buying into what does it say about your

679
00:30:59,119 --> 00:31:02,640
view of I guess Rob Dillingham being ready, in which case, well,

680
00:31:02,680 --> 00:31:04,920
then why did you give up so much to get him?

681
00:31:04,920 --> 00:31:05,079
Speaker 3: Now?

682
00:31:05,079 --> 00:31:06,559
Speaker 2: I know that was a future play, and now it

683
00:31:06,559 --> 00:31:08,880
looks like even more like a future play. I think

684
00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:10,880
that's what Randall might help them the most, at least

685
00:31:10,880 --> 00:31:13,119
this year, where it's okay, we didn't think Rob Dillingham

686
00:31:13,200 --> 00:31:16,079
was gonna be playable in the playoffs, Julius Randall's kind

687
00:31:16,119 --> 00:31:18,000
of proven unplayable in the playoffs at first, but it's

688
00:31:18,279 --> 00:31:20,319
you have better talent around him. He's not gonna be

689
00:31:20,359 --> 00:31:22,920
the first option as he was in one of those

690
00:31:22,920 --> 00:31:27,240
two Knicks playoff runs. So I still remain intrigued by this.

691
00:31:27,279 --> 00:31:29,720
From a wolve's perspective, I just find it. And I

692
00:31:29,759 --> 00:31:31,759
know you outlined the ideal scenario, but do you think

693
00:31:31,799 --> 00:31:34,119
that there's a world in which they made this trade

694
00:31:34,640 --> 00:31:38,359
without it being like not immediately so far, but definitely

695
00:31:38,400 --> 00:31:41,799
long term financially motivated, in which case it was motivated

696
00:31:41,839 --> 00:31:44,359
that way, Like why did it happen now?

697
00:31:44,680 --> 00:31:48,000
Speaker 1: I just yeah, I was actually gonna ask, So I

698
00:31:48,039 --> 00:31:50,920
think the financial component is like indivisible from this. I

699
00:31:50,920 --> 00:31:54,200
think it was a factor. I think it's just easier

700
00:31:54,240 --> 00:31:57,759
from the Wolves side of things to minimize it if

701
00:31:57,799 --> 00:32:00,880
you're trying to spin it, because because of the case

702
00:32:00,920 --> 00:32:03,279
I made that, I don't wholly believe that, like there's

703
00:32:03,319 --> 00:32:06,559
a way, there's there's a world where this works, where

704
00:32:06,599 --> 00:32:09,559
the offense is better with what they have now talking

705
00:32:09,559 --> 00:32:11,839
about the Wolves than what they had before. I don't

706
00:32:11,839 --> 00:32:15,119
know if i'd say that's likely, it's definitely possible, and

707
00:32:15,160 --> 00:32:16,839
in fact, like if the offense is better, it might

708
00:32:16,880 --> 00:32:19,359
just mean Anthony Edwards is better and like that's actually

709
00:32:19,440 --> 00:32:21,880
the reason. So it's not like we can conclude this

710
00:32:21,920 --> 00:32:25,039
season and say, oh, the Wolves were twelfth in offensive efficiency,

711
00:32:25,240 --> 00:32:28,400
therefore the cat trade made sense, Like well, no, there

712
00:32:28,400 --> 00:32:30,200
could be some other factors that had something to do

713
00:32:30,279 --> 00:32:32,319
with that. Maybe Dillingham even is the guy that has

714
00:32:32,519 --> 00:32:34,519
has a hand in that, but the bench just works better.

715
00:32:34,519 --> 00:32:37,960
I don't know. I think it's a combo It's just

716
00:32:38,000 --> 00:32:42,519
fascinating though, because like, actually, what was my very very

717
00:32:42,599 --> 00:32:45,480
first thought when I saw that this trade went down

718
00:32:45,599 --> 00:32:47,599
was like, I kind of like it for both sides,

719
00:32:48,119 --> 00:32:50,279
and I still am like in a place where I

720
00:32:50,319 --> 00:32:53,240
can I still feel that way. So what was your

721
00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:55,240
very first We'll get to the chat in a second.

722
00:32:55,279 --> 00:32:57,559
What was your first reaction and has that changed in

723
00:32:57,640 --> 00:32:59,960
the like intervening fourteen hours or whatever.

724
00:33:00,799 --> 00:33:02,119
Speaker 3: I my first.

725
00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:04,960
Speaker 2: Round was I didn't like it for either side, and

726
00:33:04,960 --> 00:33:07,079
then I thought about it, and now I'm at a

727
00:33:07,079 --> 00:33:10,839
point where it's I understand it for both sides. I

728
00:33:11,000 --> 00:33:13,799
just think that, And I mean that's to some extent

729
00:33:13,799 --> 00:33:16,240
this is always the case. But like, the stakes are

730
00:33:16,279 --> 00:33:19,079
so high for both of these teams that I think,

731
00:33:19,440 --> 00:33:22,000
as both of these teams, you would want a little

732
00:33:22,039 --> 00:33:24,680
bit more certainty than you're gleaning. And by the way,

733
00:33:24,720 --> 00:33:26,599
the one thing we haven't mentioned from the Wolves perspective

734
00:33:26,640 --> 00:33:28,240
is they do if they want to do something else,

735
00:33:28,319 --> 00:33:28,680
is now.

736
00:33:28,559 --> 00:33:30,880
Speaker 3: They have a first round pick they could trade in

737
00:33:30,880 --> 00:33:32,599
that well a first round pick.

738
00:33:32,720 --> 00:33:35,200
Speaker 2: It quotes that they could trade, So there is that

739
00:33:35,279 --> 00:33:39,359
element to it, But I don't I didn't come away

740
00:33:39,400 --> 00:33:39,720
from this.

741
00:33:39,799 --> 00:33:40,720
Speaker 3: Here's how I'll frame it.

742
00:33:40,920 --> 00:33:43,720
Speaker 2: I don't come away from the saying team X won

743
00:33:43,759 --> 00:33:46,119
this deal clearly, and that's where I'm still at. I

744
00:33:46,200 --> 00:33:48,519
understand it from both sides, and I see a world

745
00:33:48,559 --> 00:33:51,160
in which you outlaid it from the Timberwolves perspective, and

746
00:33:51,200 --> 00:33:53,200
we both out mapped it out from the Nick's perspective.

747
00:33:53,519 --> 00:33:55,519
I think I see the scenarios in which it winds

748
00:33:55,559 --> 00:33:58,920
up working out immensely well for both teams. But this

749
00:33:59,000 --> 00:34:00,960
isn't one of those trades where, at least for me,

750
00:34:01,160 --> 00:34:03,079
did you do you have a clear not even a

751
00:34:03,079 --> 00:34:05,400
win or loser. But you kind of said you already

752
00:34:05,440 --> 00:34:08,000
liked it for both sides. But if you come away thinking, oh,

753
00:34:08,079 --> 00:34:10,840
like Minnesota or like, yeah, they really like they hit

754
00:34:10,880 --> 00:34:11,559
a home run.

755
00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:16,239
Speaker 1: Here, No, I can't get there with either side. I again, yeah,

756
00:34:16,519 --> 00:34:18,199
I'll just would be repeating what you said, like I

757
00:34:18,239 --> 00:34:19,639
can see how it could work out for both. I

758
00:34:19,639 --> 00:34:21,639
could see how it doesn't move the needle at all

759
00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:23,559
for both, like relative to last year, and I could

760
00:34:23,559 --> 00:34:25,559
see how it makes them both worse. Like That's that's

761
00:34:25,599 --> 00:34:28,000
a mark of a good trait. I think one of

762
00:34:28,079 --> 00:34:30,719
my favorite aspects, though, is like, this is a deal

763
00:34:30,760 --> 00:34:33,679
between two teams that could win their respective conferences, and

764
00:34:33,719 --> 00:34:36,440
it's like a big deal with major names and money

765
00:34:36,440 --> 00:34:39,719
moving back and forth, like this isn't my I think

766
00:34:39,760 --> 00:34:43,760
my preferred finals, well, my number one preferred finals matchup

767
00:34:43,760 --> 00:34:46,320
features the Warriors, which we will not see. Number two

768
00:34:46,360 --> 00:34:48,360
is probably anything involving the Thunder. But now I want

769
00:34:48,400 --> 00:34:50,400
to see nix Wolves in the finals. Like the Now,

770
00:34:50,440 --> 00:34:52,280
I just want to see these two teams play each other.

771
00:34:53,079 --> 00:34:55,719
So I do think we should at least like sort

772
00:34:55,719 --> 00:34:59,960
of mark the rarity of two teams like at this level,

773
00:35:00,800 --> 00:35:04,159
making like it like basically it's not a challenge trade

774
00:35:04,199 --> 00:35:05,920
because those are like one for ones, but it's like

775
00:35:05,960 --> 00:35:09,239
it's pretty close, like they're just saying, like give us

776
00:35:09,280 --> 00:35:11,280
your guy, we'll give you a couple of ours. We'll

777
00:35:11,320 --> 00:35:13,679
just see you know, Like that's that's because there's not

778
00:35:13,719 --> 00:35:15,519
like a million picks going back and forth. There's like

779
00:35:15,599 --> 00:35:17,840
one shitty first, it's just players.

780
00:35:18,239 --> 00:35:20,719
Speaker 2: But there's also the element of do you come away

781
00:35:20,760 --> 00:35:24,840
thinking one of these teams got like confidently better, it's not.

782
00:35:25,159 --> 00:35:26,840
Speaker 3: Again, it could be that both of them got a

783
00:35:26,840 --> 00:35:30,079
lot better, but there is downside for both of these teams.

784
00:35:30,320 --> 00:35:33,079
Speaker 1: I'm more confident that the I think the Knicks upside

785
00:35:33,119 --> 00:35:37,079
is probably like their potential gains are greater, and that

786
00:35:37,159 --> 00:35:38,960
has as much to do with the fact that, like

787
00:35:39,119 --> 00:35:42,679
Mitchell Robinson just wasn't going to contribute for probably a

788
00:35:42,719 --> 00:35:46,320
third to half of the season. Uh So, like we

789
00:35:46,519 --> 00:35:48,800
just met, you know, measuring where they were to where

790
00:35:48,800 --> 00:35:51,239
they could get with Cat, I think that GAP's bigger

791
00:35:51,280 --> 00:35:54,039
than where the Wolves could get because, by the way,

792
00:35:54,079 --> 00:35:56,480
the Wolves were the better regular season team last year anyway,

793
00:35:56,519 --> 00:35:59,920
right like they're They went fifty six, so they were

794
00:36:00,039 --> 00:36:02,360
already really good. This could make them good in a

795
00:36:02,360 --> 00:36:04,639
different way. I don't think this adds like five wins

796
00:36:04,639 --> 00:36:07,000
to their total or anything, whereas I think Cap might

797
00:36:07,079 --> 00:36:09,599
do that for the Knicks might Honestly.

798
00:36:09,239 --> 00:36:10,800
Speaker 2: You know who might be the biggest winner of this

799
00:36:10,840 --> 00:36:13,119
trade for the Wolves, I honestly think it's Rob Dillingham

800
00:36:13,239 --> 00:36:14,599
to where.

801
00:36:14,639 --> 00:36:16,840
Speaker 1: Reed's roles getting bigger ahead of that's.

802
00:36:16,679 --> 00:36:19,400
Speaker 2: A great right in a contract here too, good timing.

803
00:36:19,599 --> 00:36:21,639
I did the last element I wanted to ask you about,

804
00:36:22,159 --> 00:36:23,639
and we don't have to spend too much time on

805
00:36:23,679 --> 00:36:26,159
it at all, But like, how does this trade get

806
00:36:26,280 --> 00:36:28,920
fleshed out? But I'm just I'm trying I'm struggling to

807
00:36:28,920 --> 00:36:30,280
come up with the money of it all. And if

808
00:36:30,280 --> 00:36:33,800
it is Mitchell Robinson, that's aknot It's like what happens?

809
00:36:34,039 --> 00:36:35,440
Speaker 3: The Knicks better be getting back a.

810
00:36:35,480 --> 00:36:38,280
Speaker 2: Big from Charlotte and I think Grant Williams doesn't he

811
00:36:38,360 --> 00:36:40,760
make more than Mitchell Robinson's, Like, it's not gonna be that.

812
00:36:41,440 --> 00:36:43,159
Speaker 3: I've thought. The thing that I thought was.

813
00:36:43,159 --> 00:36:45,679
Speaker 2: Like, can you rope in Portland to get RW three back?

814
00:36:47,119 --> 00:36:49,480
Speaker 1: Like the guy that's just got to go somewhere, And yeah,

815
00:36:49,480 --> 00:36:53,119
that would be. I mean, like if it is Robinson

816
00:36:53,159 --> 00:36:55,519
that goes from the Knicks again, like the health questions

817
00:36:55,519 --> 00:36:57,079
make it so that like you might just be trading

818
00:36:57,119 --> 00:36:59,639
someone that was gonna give you zero or close to it.

819
00:37:00,039 --> 00:37:03,679
But if he's not, if you're gonna get a healthy

820
00:37:03,800 --> 00:37:06,000
ish Mitchell Robinson for a chunk of the year, like

821
00:37:06,519 --> 00:37:08,800
you can't just give that up. That's he's still like

822
00:37:09,199 --> 00:37:11,039
he would allow the Knicks to kind of be what

823
00:37:11,079 --> 00:37:13,719
they were last year, except you know, better in some

824
00:37:13,800 --> 00:37:16,159
aspects because he would bring back the offensive rebounding. He's

825
00:37:16,159 --> 00:37:18,239
not gonna do the Hertenstein stuff, but like you could

826
00:37:18,239 --> 00:37:20,360
sort of have it both ways, where we have the

827
00:37:20,400 --> 00:37:22,760
cat version, and then we have the Mitchell Robinson version,

828
00:37:22,840 --> 00:37:25,079
and both of those are good versions of the Knicks.

829
00:37:25,400 --> 00:37:28,280
So if you do include Robinson to make the money work,

830
00:37:28,920 --> 00:37:30,880
I mean, I guess you'd better be confident that you

831
00:37:30,920 --> 00:37:33,320
weren't gonna get much at all from him this season

832
00:37:33,400 --> 00:37:38,199
because of the injury stuff, because otherwise, like Towns, Towns

833
00:37:38,280 --> 00:37:40,639
is a better player to have if you're gonna say

834
00:37:40,679 --> 00:37:43,920
he's our center than Randall. But like a lot of

835
00:37:43,920 --> 00:37:46,400
the same problems arise. So I think you either you

836
00:37:46,440 --> 00:37:48,480
either better have Robinson and he's gonna give you something,

837
00:37:48,559 --> 00:37:51,000
or you figure out how to get like a conventional

838
00:37:51,039 --> 00:37:54,480
center in there somehow, but roping that into this trader

839
00:37:54,599 --> 00:37:55,599
doing something else, I don't know.

840
00:37:57,000 --> 00:37:58,400
Speaker 3: Let's get to some of the chats.

841
00:37:58,440 --> 00:38:00,960
Speaker 2: If Grant has to scadata like hear and answer questions,

842
00:38:01,000 --> 00:38:02,920
we'd like questions too, so throw them in. But we'll

843
00:38:02,960 --> 00:38:05,320
go through some of the chats that have stacked up

844
00:38:06,079 --> 00:38:08,480
sixteen colon A so Bummeda's a Wolves fan. Randall does

845
00:38:08,519 --> 00:38:11,159
everything worse than Cat, I do think. I don't know

846
00:38:11,159 --> 00:38:13,719
if you agree Grant that Randall is the better on

847
00:38:13,840 --> 00:38:14,800
ball creator thank Ca.

848
00:38:14,920 --> 00:38:18,199
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, I think that's a given and again that

849
00:38:18,360 --> 00:38:22,480
is potentially something that Minnesota needs. Losing the shooting sucks.

850
00:38:22,599 --> 00:38:25,079
But like you said, five a game, you can replace

851
00:38:25,119 --> 00:38:26,760
that with Reed and Stevencenzo.

852
00:38:28,079 --> 00:38:30,159
Speaker 2: Joe says, a playoff series lost to the Luca Donches

853
00:38:30,280 --> 00:38:32,320
lead matters led to four NBA teams to make major

854
00:38:32,360 --> 00:38:35,079
trade immediately there after breaking up a core of all

855
00:38:35,079 --> 00:38:37,880
star all NBA players Utah, Phoenix and the Clippers. That

856
00:38:38,000 --> 00:38:42,039
is a great comment, Joe, and a fact too. And

857
00:38:42,079 --> 00:38:45,280
now Minnesota, so that becond part of it. One time

858
00:38:45,320 --> 00:38:48,320
has happenstance, while four times means the benchmark that forces front.

859
00:38:48,159 --> 00:38:51,719
Speaker 1: Of I mean, Luca Doncha is just out here wrecking

860
00:38:52,280 --> 00:38:53,480
I don't know, a sixth.

861
00:38:53,159 --> 00:38:56,320
Speaker 2: Of the league, pretty good league, Henry, as a Minnesota fan,

862
00:38:56,320 --> 00:38:58,400
this is auditioned by subtraction. I mean if anything is

863
00:38:58,440 --> 00:39:00,760
additioned by addition. Because you and just get rid of

864
00:39:00,840 --> 00:39:03,039
cat for nothing and you have Henry got a lot

865
00:39:03,039 --> 00:39:05,400
of comments here. I would like to know, Henry, do

866
00:39:05,440 --> 00:39:08,320
you work for the Timberwolves in any capacity based off

867
00:39:08,400 --> 00:39:11,039
let's see that some of Henry's greatest hits here?

868
00:39:11,119 --> 00:39:13,760
Speaker 3: What do we got? Oh? This? Oh? Here we go?

869
00:39:13,800 --> 00:39:16,199
Speaker 2: Well, yes, this is a would you do this, yes,

870
00:39:16,280 --> 00:39:18,320
start nos. This isn't a do you work for a

871
00:39:18,320 --> 00:39:20,920
timber Wolves question. I think it's a if I politically,

872
00:39:21,159 --> 00:39:21,960
I would just do it.

873
00:39:22,320 --> 00:39:24,719
Speaker 1: Well you you mentioned like well maybe that and just

874
00:39:24,800 --> 00:39:27,280
kind of in passing like maybe this means Randall comes

875
00:39:27,320 --> 00:39:30,679
off the bench, Like politically that is tough. You're right,

876
00:39:30,920 --> 00:39:33,840
but like maybe you know, if if one of our

877
00:39:33,840 --> 00:39:35,719
biggest concerns, and like it's almost to the point it

878
00:39:35,800 --> 00:39:37,960
is to the point where we get shipped for talking

879
00:39:38,000 --> 00:39:39,880
about it all the time. But like, oh my god,

880
00:39:40,000 --> 00:39:42,840
Rob Dillingham's role is going to be so important. That's

881
00:39:42,880 --> 00:39:46,400
such a huge amount of pressure for a rookie. It's like, well,

882
00:39:46,440 --> 00:39:49,079
it's a lot less playmaking pressure if Julius Randall spends

883
00:39:49,079 --> 00:39:51,199
a lot of second unit minutes with him, you know.

884
00:39:51,599 --> 00:39:54,840
So like again from a basketball.

885
00:39:55,039 --> 00:39:57,480
Speaker 2: Could play off the ball too, So that dynamic I

886
00:39:57,480 --> 00:39:59,800
don't know what to look like defensively, but that dynamic

887
00:40:00,039 --> 00:40:00,599
currently work.

888
00:40:00,840 --> 00:40:03,039
Speaker 1: I get it. I think like if you could get

889
00:40:03,079 --> 00:40:06,000
everybody on board, that makes some sense because then you

890
00:40:06,079 --> 00:40:08,320
just have Reid b cat right, You're like u space

891
00:40:08,480 --> 00:40:10,480
you do all the stuff that he did last year

892
00:40:10,519 --> 00:40:14,039
next to Gobert and then we just have a dramatically

893
00:40:14,119 --> 00:40:18,079
upgraded second unit that has de Vincenzo. I guess you know,

894
00:40:18,119 --> 00:40:20,599
Devincenzo probably won't No, he won't start. So then you

895
00:40:20,639 --> 00:40:24,599
have Dillingham, de Vincenzo and Julius Randall against backups like

896
00:40:24,639 --> 00:40:27,280
you're gonna score. Like that group is gonna score, and

897
00:40:27,480 --> 00:40:29,199
maybe that's how you get the offense up to where

898
00:40:29,239 --> 00:40:31,559
it needs to be. I mean, I kind of love

899
00:40:31,599 --> 00:40:33,039
that idea, honestly.

900
00:40:33,800 --> 00:40:36,960
Speaker 2: DC DC eight minutes behind, but the next team's short

901
00:40:37,000 --> 00:40:39,519
on playmaking. I really like, mindis side if Randall can

902
00:40:39,519 --> 00:40:42,400
be on the floor with Rudy and Nas Holy, I mean,

903
00:40:43,480 --> 00:40:46,480
what is I mean they did the cat Nas Rudy

904
00:40:46,519 --> 00:40:50,320
thing for small stretches. I really think that comes down

905
00:40:50,360 --> 00:40:54,239
to is Rando willing to fully embrace the access rework

906
00:40:54,280 --> 00:40:56,840
and that it's not just a matter of working off

907
00:40:56,880 --> 00:40:58,360
the ball, but it's when he catches the ball, Like

908
00:40:58,400 --> 00:41:01,000
the decisions when he's at his best need to be quicker.

909
00:41:01,079 --> 00:41:03,159
I think the issue here and look, the Knicks found

910
00:41:03,159 --> 00:41:05,559
ways around it with Mitchell Robinson. But like, if you

911
00:41:05,599 --> 00:41:07,719
have Rudy Gobert on the court, like you're never gonna

912
00:41:07,719 --> 00:41:10,000
be the primary screener, and so then you're going to

913
00:41:10,119 --> 00:41:13,159
be relegated to buy standard duty to some of the

914
00:41:13,239 --> 00:41:15,280
second units. You were just talking about it. If you

915
00:41:15,280 --> 00:41:18,039
want another big and still continue to play huge, him

916
00:41:18,079 --> 00:41:20,559
and Nas can work because Nas can space the floor

917
00:41:20,599 --> 00:41:23,480
while Julius screens or vice versa. Honestly, you could run

918
00:41:23,559 --> 00:41:25,519
dual big pick and rolls with those two because of

919
00:41:25,599 --> 00:41:29,599
Julius Randall's ball handling. So I do agree. How did

920
00:41:29,639 --> 00:41:31,679
you feel about the Knicks being short on playmaking?

921
00:41:31,760 --> 00:41:32,000
Speaker 3: Part?

922
00:41:32,119 --> 00:41:34,400
Speaker 2: Because I made this point to Andrew Claudio of Knicks

923
00:41:34,400 --> 00:41:37,400
Film School, who disagreed. At the time Randall was still

924
00:41:37,440 --> 00:41:39,320
on the team, I would now argue that it feels

925
00:41:39,320 --> 00:41:41,079
a little bit more salient at the moment.

926
00:41:41,559 --> 00:41:45,800
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, I think they Well, if we were gonna

927
00:41:45,840 --> 00:41:47,800
if we spent the whole offseason talking about how important

928
00:41:47,840 --> 00:41:50,199
Julius Randall's playmaking was, we have to concede now that

929
00:41:50,239 --> 00:41:52,800
they have less of it, and so, and that's not

930
00:41:52,840 --> 00:41:54,719
great because it wasn't a position to strength before. We

931
00:41:54,760 --> 00:41:59,840
haven't really talked about Deduce McBride, who, like, what's his

932
00:42:00,039 --> 00:42:02,559
role now? Like is he just is he playing a ton?

933
00:42:03,880 --> 00:42:07,119
Speaker 2: What's interesting is that I had their read like going

934
00:42:07,199 --> 00:42:09,599
out and getting McHale Bridges and having Julius. I was

935
00:42:09,639 --> 00:42:11,840
just like, okay, they clearly and then they signed Campaign.

936
00:42:12,119 --> 00:42:13,000
Speaker 3: I was like, they don't.

937
00:42:12,920 --> 00:42:15,760
Speaker 2: View a Duce McBride is like an actual backup point guard.

938
00:42:15,760 --> 00:42:17,320
They view him as just someone who's either an off

939
00:42:17,360 --> 00:42:20,119
guard or wing type. Maybe they still feel that way,

940
00:42:20,119 --> 00:42:23,719
but we just talked about they they lost honestly, Like,

941
00:42:24,360 --> 00:42:26,239
do you think Dante DiVincenzo.

942
00:42:25,719 --> 00:42:28,239
Speaker 3: Is a better playmaker than Karl Anthony Towns.

943
00:42:28,280 --> 00:42:30,800
Speaker 1: Donege Evincenzo is not a good playmaker, Like he's not

944
00:42:31,000 --> 00:42:33,000
He's not a good ball handler, Like that's just not

945
00:42:33,199 --> 00:42:34,400
what what he is.

946
00:42:35,360 --> 00:42:36,960
Speaker 2: So I think you might be telling about the little

947
00:42:36,960 --> 00:42:39,360
short but I would agree in that matter. But like you,

948
00:42:39,599 --> 00:42:41,920
I think the playmaking overall is an even larger concern

949
00:42:42,079 --> 00:42:44,880
after this trade. And so you would think Deuce's role

950
00:42:44,920 --> 00:42:47,440
gets bigger or just like Campaign's role get big Or

951
00:42:47,440 --> 00:42:49,880
are they gonna try out Tyler Kohlik, who's just a.

952
00:42:49,800 --> 00:42:53,159
Speaker 1: Phenomenal passer Maybe yeah, yeah, I think we have we again,

953
00:42:53,239 --> 00:42:55,000
should have mentioned him by now if we're talking about

954
00:42:55,000 --> 00:42:56,639
the playmaking issue.

955
00:42:56,719 --> 00:42:59,039
Speaker 2: Uh oh, this is I think one of my barbers

956
00:42:59,119 --> 00:43:01,360
is in the chest up, Bro, did you see Did

957
00:43:01,360 --> 00:43:03,920
you see my tweet? Barber slast DJH. I did not

958
00:43:04,000 --> 00:43:06,239
see your tweet because I'm not on Twitter enough anymore.

959
00:43:06,239 --> 00:43:08,719
But thank you for coming in and watching a bunch

960
00:43:08,719 --> 00:43:12,320
of stuff from the Henry the financial decisions for future

961
00:43:12,320 --> 00:43:13,239
flexibility which will.

962
00:43:13,159 --> 00:43:13,719
Speaker 3: Make them better.

963
00:43:14,119 --> 00:43:16,320
Speaker 2: I mean, maybe this is my issue with the way

964
00:43:16,320 --> 00:43:20,400
that people view rookies playing big roles right away, is

965
00:43:20,400 --> 00:43:23,480
that they just assume that they're gonna be good when

966
00:43:23,519 --> 00:43:25,280
rookies have was we saw it when we did the

967
00:43:25,320 --> 00:43:27,559
Timberwolves Look Ahead, which is now a little dated. I

968
00:43:27,559 --> 00:43:31,760
would think, uh, with Tarren Shannon Jr. And like Rob Dillingham,

969
00:43:31,840 --> 00:43:34,440
they're everything the Wolves need, it's gonna work out. Oh

970
00:43:34,679 --> 00:43:37,679
maybe is it gonna work out right away? I don't know,

971
00:43:38,119 --> 00:43:39,800
and I would I would argue that you if you

972
00:43:39,840 --> 00:43:41,639
thought it was gonna work out right away, maybe this

973
00:43:41,679 --> 00:43:45,000
trade doesn't happen. But the financial element definitely does mean

974
00:43:45,320 --> 00:43:48,480
a ton mel less cat more NAS.

975
00:43:48,639 --> 00:43:50,519
Speaker 3: I mean, certainly now it's gonna be less cat and

976
00:43:50,719 --> 00:43:50,880
or not.

977
00:43:51,480 --> 00:43:54,639
Speaker 1: And again, like, I don't know if I'm over selling

978
00:43:54,679 --> 00:43:58,000
the idea that NAS can just do all the cat stuff.

979
00:43:58,039 --> 00:43:59,960
I hope I haven't made it seem like I really

980
00:44:00,039 --> 00:44:03,119
think like he's just as good as Cat, but we

981
00:44:03,199 --> 00:44:06,559
kind of tiptoed around this a little bit, like based

982
00:44:06,559 --> 00:44:08,960
on what he again, so now it's just, oh, it's

983
00:44:08,960 --> 00:44:11,440
a financial move. But it's like if if Nas can

984
00:44:11,480 --> 00:44:15,360
give you eighty percent of what Towns did in like

985
00:44:15,440 --> 00:44:19,360
similar minutes, and he costs I don't have the numbers

986
00:44:19,360 --> 00:44:22,199
in front of me, like a quarter of or you know,

987
00:44:22,599 --> 00:44:27,000
like a twenty person, you know, significantly less than what

988
00:44:27,159 --> 00:44:30,519
Kat does. Like isn't that just a smart move? Isn't

989
00:44:30,519 --> 00:44:33,039
it shouldn't you just like, yeah, this is how we

990
00:44:33,280 --> 00:44:35,559
this is how we offset the crazy money we have

991
00:44:35,639 --> 00:44:39,599
gone to Gobert and and and McDaniels.

992
00:44:38,920 --> 00:44:42,079
Speaker 2: Speaking of vain Stain, that's quite the name. Minnesota ready

993
00:44:42,079 --> 00:44:44,719
to move on from Gobert. Do you think this trade

994
00:44:45,199 --> 00:44:48,639
makes it more or less likely that he's with the

995
00:44:48,679 --> 00:44:51,840
Wolves beyond next season where he could design an extension,

996
00:44:51,840 --> 00:44:54,440
but he also has that massive player option. It is

997
00:44:54,559 --> 00:44:57,760
under fifty million, but I don't it's like forty was

998
00:44:57,800 --> 00:45:00,199
it forty six or something crazy at that point, so

999
00:45:01,400 --> 00:45:03,039
which he's not getting that per year on the other

1000
00:45:03,440 --> 00:45:05,679
right now, in the open market, so but do you

1001
00:45:05,920 --> 00:45:09,639
I but there, I don't know, does it or does

1002
00:45:09,679 --> 00:45:11,480
it not impact your views at all?

1003
00:45:11,760 --> 00:45:13,760
Speaker 1: Like can I just say I don't feel like it

1004
00:45:13,840 --> 00:45:15,760
impacts it one way or the other.

1005
00:45:16,079 --> 00:45:18,440
Speaker 2: Just I guess from the mindset of if they are

1006
00:45:18,440 --> 00:45:20,760
clearly worried about these finances, Wow.

1007
00:45:20,760 --> 00:45:26,079
Speaker 1: Sure, yeah, No, I think like I guess I don't

1008
00:45:26,159 --> 00:45:31,719
view the Cat move specifically as we're also the fire

1009
00:45:31,760 --> 00:45:34,079
sales starting or because that really wasn't what this is.

1010
00:45:34,119 --> 00:45:37,039
They didn't just dump that money someplace else and get

1011
00:45:37,079 --> 00:45:39,960
space back or whatever, like they got back Randall's contract

1012
00:45:40,039 --> 00:45:42,360
is like I don't know, it's not bad, but it's

1013
00:45:42,400 --> 00:45:45,000
like that's a decent, healthy number, and so it's like

1014
00:45:45,480 --> 00:45:47,360
it doesn't feel like that's the way this is headed.

1015
00:45:47,360 --> 00:45:49,400
Although now it's like we didn't think they were gonna

1016
00:45:49,400 --> 00:45:51,239
trade Cat at all, and they did, so maybe we

1017
00:45:51,280 --> 00:45:53,119
need to have our antenna up a little more with

1018
00:45:53,320 --> 00:45:56,159
you know, the ownership stuff, like maybe that's a huge

1019
00:45:56,159 --> 00:45:58,800
factor here where whoever ends up being in charge of

1020
00:45:58,800 --> 00:46:01,519
this thing is kind of like not sure. I like

1021
00:46:01,639 --> 00:46:04,920
the idea of our payroll being what it is. I

1022
00:46:04,920 --> 00:46:09,239
don't know. I don't think Gobert is like nothing about

1023
00:46:09,239 --> 00:46:12,559
this move says that Gobert is imminently gonna follow Kat

1024
00:46:12,599 --> 00:46:14,719
out the door, except for the fact that you traded

1025
00:46:14,760 --> 00:46:16,800
someone at least partially because you don't want to pay

1026
00:46:16,840 --> 00:46:18,920
him sixty million dollars a year or four years from now.

1027
00:46:19,239 --> 00:46:21,639
Speaker 2: Yeah, functionally, I don't think he's like any more indispensable

1028
00:46:21,679 --> 00:46:23,960
unless you think Nah's reading Julius Randall or the front

1029
00:46:24,039 --> 00:46:24,679
court of the future.

1030
00:46:24,760 --> 00:46:27,559
Speaker 1: Don't don't love that front court defensively if that's what

1031
00:46:27,599 --> 00:46:28,280
you're gonna.

1032
00:46:28,079 --> 00:46:31,920
Speaker 2: Do, Mel Dive great and cheap role player out. He's

1033
00:46:31,920 --> 00:46:34,599
making less than the mid level for the next three years.

1034
00:46:34,679 --> 00:46:38,119
So absolutely, I think what you could say, but this

1035
00:46:38,159 --> 00:46:40,559
will tie into it, So Henry, who's more valuable to winning,

1036
00:46:40,599 --> 00:46:43,559
Derek White or Kat Gnaw and d d are many

1037
00:46:43,639 --> 00:46:47,239
Derek Whites. That is absolutely untrue, Like none of those

1038
00:46:47,360 --> 00:46:51,000
like neither of those players. Naw isn't nearly the player

1039
00:46:51,039 --> 00:46:53,159
that Derek White is on offense, and then by Dante

1040
00:46:53,159 --> 00:46:54,960
de Vincenzo is even close to the player that Derek

1041
00:46:54,960 --> 00:46:58,239
White is on defense. What's interesting about the de Vincenzo

1042
00:46:58,360 --> 00:47:00,719
side of this, And by the way, that's even though

1043
00:47:00,719 --> 00:47:02,760
I think that Randall was like super important the Knicks.

1044
00:47:02,800 --> 00:47:04,519
That's like the guy when he was out going, I

1045
00:47:04,559 --> 00:47:05,920
was like, oh, I was like, can they afford to

1046
00:47:05,960 --> 00:47:09,519
lose his three point voluing gravity? Last year was an

1047
00:47:09,519 --> 00:47:12,639
outlier season for him. This is someone who through the

1048
00:47:12,679 --> 00:47:15,199
first what was it six seven years of his career,

1049
00:47:15,760 --> 00:47:18,719
never averaged six to three point attempts per game, was

1050
00:47:18,960 --> 00:47:21,199
under four point seven in total for his career. Then

1051
00:47:21,280 --> 00:47:23,079
Jack's up closer to nine and hits him at a

1052
00:47:23,079 --> 00:47:26,800
forty percent clip. I think, yes, his role was pretty big.

1053
00:47:27,639 --> 00:47:28,360
Speaker 3: But I think if you.

1054
00:47:28,360 --> 00:47:30,920
Speaker 2: Wanted to take the Knicks dance and say some regression

1055
00:47:30,920 --> 00:47:33,119
could be coming, like like are we sure this is

1056
00:47:33,119 --> 00:47:36,039
the new normal, that might be fair. But if he

1057
00:47:36,159 --> 00:47:38,599
is just what he is last season, my god, like

1058
00:47:38,679 --> 00:47:41,599
that gravity on Minnesota's team is terrifying.

1059
00:47:41,280 --> 00:47:43,199
Speaker 1: And he doesn't really have to be what he was

1060
00:47:43,280 --> 00:47:45,840
last season to still be a huge value, like just

1061
00:47:45,880 --> 00:47:49,320
because of that contract he could be. You know, I

1062
00:47:49,760 --> 00:47:52,119
keep using percentages of players like that's the thing, But

1063
00:47:52,199 --> 00:47:55,480
like if he's eight, if he shoots thirty eight percent

1064
00:47:55,599 --> 00:47:57,840
and gets up like seven or eight a game, that's

1065
00:47:57,840 --> 00:48:01,039
still a hugely valuable player, especially considering how little he's

1066
00:48:01,039 --> 00:48:02,679
making and you're not going to ask him to do

1067
00:48:02,760 --> 00:48:04,920
much more than come off the bench, right, So yeah,

1068
00:48:04,960 --> 00:48:07,360
like the Vincenzo's the easy it's like, yeah, I get

1069
00:48:07,360 --> 00:48:09,960
I get it. Like the Wolves offense sucks. They add

1070
00:48:10,000 --> 00:48:11,559
a bunch of guy at a guy who can shoot

1071
00:48:11,599 --> 00:48:13,239
a bunch of threes, and maybe that helps solve it,

1072
00:48:13,280 --> 00:48:16,000
and it costs as cheap the random parts. Like this

1073
00:48:16,039 --> 00:48:17,760
is where we're doing backflips trying to figure out the

1074
00:48:17,800 --> 00:48:18,280
random part.

1075
00:48:19,360 --> 00:48:22,559
Speaker 2: Let's get a couple more here off ray Eljohn. This

1076
00:48:22,599 --> 00:48:24,000
doesn't look like a Joe question to me.

1077
00:48:24,039 --> 00:48:26,639
Speaker 3: You want to take this one grant big question.

1078
00:48:26,719 --> 00:48:30,559
Speaker 1: Will the Pistons first convey in twenty six or twenty seven?

1079
00:48:30,599 --> 00:48:34,360
So top thirteen, protected in twenty five, top eleven, and

1080
00:48:34,400 --> 00:48:37,880
then top nine. I think are the protections in twenty four? Yes?

1081
00:48:38,480 --> 00:48:39,800
Speaker 3: Do you think it conveys at all?

1082
00:48:40,119 --> 00:48:44,559
Speaker 1: No, I kind of don't. I mean, it's not. I'd

1083
00:48:44,559 --> 00:48:46,599
be stunned if it was this year, and then progressively

1084
00:48:46,679 --> 00:48:49,320
less stunned, I guess, because at some point the Pistons

1085
00:48:49,320 --> 00:48:52,239
will get better just by virtue of being bad forever,

1086
00:48:52,320 --> 00:48:54,440
like that's usually how it works. And and by the way,

1087
00:48:54,480 --> 00:48:56,360
they've been bad for a very long time. We're going

1088
00:48:56,400 --> 00:48:58,599
on like twenty years, you know, more or less of

1089
00:48:59,000 --> 00:49:00,000
bad Piston seasons.

1090
00:49:00,039 --> 00:49:01,800
Speaker 3: But they haven't won a first.

1091
00:49:01,719 --> 00:49:04,480
Speaker 2: Round playoff series since two thousand and eight. Yeah, they've

1092
00:49:04,480 --> 00:49:06,159
only made the playoffs like three times since then. So

1093
00:49:06,199 --> 00:49:09,960
it's been rough drip flay Knicks fan here from NYC

1094
00:49:10,119 --> 00:49:14,199
feeling good. I honestly as a Knicks fan myself, which

1095
00:49:14,199 --> 00:49:15,880
I think I do a good job of people who

1096
00:49:15,920 --> 00:49:17,599
listen to a loyally know but the way that I

1097
00:49:17,679 --> 00:49:20,199
analyze the league, I think people are always mystified as

1098
00:49:20,239 --> 00:49:23,239
to when they find that out. I want to feel

1099
00:49:23,280 --> 00:49:25,559
that optimistic about. I don't think it's a bad trade.

1100
00:49:25,599 --> 00:49:27,599
I want to make that clear. And maybe it's just

1101
00:49:28,360 --> 00:49:30,360
coming at it from a Knicks perspective, Grant, do you

1102
00:49:30,360 --> 00:49:33,119
think maybe it's just so much movement to digest over

1103
00:49:33,159 --> 00:49:35,280
the past like six or eight months, where Okay, they've

1104
00:49:35,280 --> 00:49:41,159
turned RJ. Barrett Emmanuel quickly, Julius Randall, Dante DiVincenzo, basically

1105
00:49:41,239 --> 00:49:43,639
almost every single first round pick that they could trade

1106
00:49:44,039 --> 00:49:48,519
into Clany Towns, McHale, Bridges and og Ananobi.

1107
00:49:48,599 --> 00:49:51,719
Speaker 3: And it's just like it's so much to have to process.

1108
00:49:51,920 --> 00:49:55,079
Speaker 1: If I had said to the I don't know. Let's

1109
00:49:55,119 --> 00:49:58,960
say like the twenty twenty two version of you guess what, Dan,

1110
00:49:59,280 --> 00:50:02,239
but going in twenty four to twenty five, Jalen Brunson

1111
00:50:02,400 --> 00:50:05,599
will be an MVP contender. He'll be your point guard,

1112
00:50:05,719 --> 00:50:09,000
and you'll be like the Mavericks Jalen Brunson, that guy like, yeah,

1113
00:50:09,119 --> 00:50:11,119
I know the guy. The Dallas wouldn't pay that guy.

1114
00:50:11,159 --> 00:50:14,199
He's gonna be an MVP candidate. You'll also have mckail Bridges.

1115
00:50:14,239 --> 00:50:17,079
You'll also have og Anobi, and you also have Cat

1116
00:50:17,360 --> 00:50:20,079
Like you would be over the moon. You would be

1117
00:50:20,159 --> 00:50:22,599
like that would be what an outcome that would be

1118
00:50:22,639 --> 00:50:24,840
If you told that to a Knicks fan, I get it, man,

1119
00:50:25,000 --> 00:50:27,960
if you're a Knicks fan, like, have have some fun

1120
00:50:28,000 --> 00:50:30,039
with this, Like this is a position that you could

1121
00:50:30,079 --> 00:50:32,599
not have imagined being in a couple of years ago.

1122
00:50:33,000 --> 00:50:34,960
Speaker 2: I think the biggest compliment you can give the Knicks

1123
00:50:35,000 --> 00:50:37,000
their front office, the state that they're in, and by

1124
00:50:37,000 --> 00:50:38,880
the way, they are here because of one player, and

1125
00:50:38,880 --> 00:50:41,079
that is Jalen Brunson. That is the only reason that

1126
00:50:41,079 --> 00:50:42,800
they are here, which is who.

1127
00:50:42,639 --> 00:50:45,119
Speaker 1: Took less money? So you could do stuff like this

1128
00:50:45,239 --> 00:50:48,639
if you wanted to like that to get overstated.

1129
00:50:48,320 --> 00:50:50,719
Speaker 2: His ability to just surprise where it was member. I

1130
00:50:50,760 --> 00:50:53,079
think we both are pretty low on the actual signing

1131
00:50:53,119 --> 00:50:54,440
because of the steps it took to get there.

1132
00:50:54,480 --> 00:50:55,519
Speaker 3: The money we didn't care about.

1133
00:50:55,559 --> 00:50:57,559
Speaker 2: We just thought that the Knicks were kind of assigning

1134
00:50:57,599 --> 00:51:01,000
themselves to mediocrity. Permanently comes in, blows that out of

1135
00:51:01,039 --> 00:51:02,840
the water, turns into one of, if not the best

1136
00:51:02,840 --> 00:51:05,400
contract in the league. Then times a below market extension,

1137
00:51:05,599 --> 00:51:08,280
finish his top five and MVP voting last year. So

1138
00:51:08,519 --> 00:51:10,079
they are here because of him, and I think the

1139
00:51:10,079 --> 00:51:12,440
biggest compet that you can give them is that will

1140
00:51:12,480 --> 00:51:15,760
this work out? I don't know, but the Knicks were

1141
00:51:15,840 --> 00:51:18,159
good enough or have a player who is good enough

1142
00:51:18,199 --> 00:51:20,559
to actually view themselves as Yeah, it was time to

1143
00:51:20,599 --> 00:51:22,679
go all in. And I also have to give them credit.

1144
00:51:22,920 --> 00:51:25,199
This wasn't like we kind of half dipped. We were

1145
00:51:25,199 --> 00:51:26,960
done after the og An Andobi trade, Like this is

1146
00:51:27,000 --> 00:51:28,559
the Knicks run office, hocket, Oh we're done.

1147
00:51:28,639 --> 00:51:30,519
Speaker 3: We want to land Michilbrity. No, we're gonna keep going.

1148
00:51:30,719 --> 00:51:34,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, they have gone tapslock all in and I respect it.

1149
00:51:34,639 --> 00:51:36,639
I still don't know whether I want to feel as

1150
00:51:36,639 --> 00:51:39,760
good as it is, but I do think it's I

1151
00:51:39,840 --> 00:51:42,559
think it's a testament to how good they've gotten that

1152
00:51:42,559 --> 00:51:44,039
they are at least in a position to where you

1153
00:51:44,039 --> 00:51:46,000
can make this argument like no, yeah, it was time.

1154
00:51:46,239 --> 00:51:48,119
Like who else were you waiting on at this point

1155
00:51:48,119 --> 00:51:49,679
and you outlined it? If you told me in twenty

1156
00:51:49,800 --> 00:51:51,320
twenty two, like this is who you're gonna have on

1157
00:51:51,320 --> 00:51:53,039
the team, I'd be over the moon.

1158
00:51:53,440 --> 00:51:56,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's it's hard to believe that they've gotten to

1159
00:51:56,920 --> 00:51:59,320
where they've gotten. It feels like it's been quick. I'm

1160
00:51:59,360 --> 00:52:01,039
sure it has not that way if you're a Knicks

1161
00:52:01,079 --> 00:52:03,559
fan watching every game for the last several years. But like,

1162
00:52:04,639 --> 00:52:08,719
just like, how does any team get Og and McHale

1163
00:52:08,719 --> 00:52:11,400
bridges together? Like those are the two guys that every

1164
00:52:11,440 --> 00:52:13,000
team in the world was like, wouldn't it be great

1165
00:52:13,039 --> 00:52:14,440
if we could get them? And they She's like, we'll

1166
00:52:14,440 --> 00:52:16,519
do both. How about that? And then we'll go get

1167
00:52:16,760 --> 00:52:18,920
like the best stretch one of the best stretch centers

1168
00:52:18,920 --> 00:52:22,760
that's ever lived. Like that's just their ability to just go. Now,

1169
00:52:23,280 --> 00:52:25,119
are they gonna win the East? I don't know. Are

1170
00:52:25,159 --> 00:52:27,760
they gonna be a top four seed? Probably? But maybe not.

1171
00:52:27,840 --> 00:52:32,400
Speaker 2: Like there's I mean, they are who is there Do

1172
00:52:32,440 --> 00:52:33,679
you have time for another question?

1173
00:52:33,840 --> 00:52:34,239
Speaker 1: Yeah?

1174
00:52:34,639 --> 00:52:35,480
Speaker 3: So is there?

1175
00:52:36,400 --> 00:52:39,840
Speaker 2: Like, aside from Jalen Brunson, the nixt depth is shaky.

1176
00:52:39,880 --> 00:52:44,440
Who is the next player that they can't lose because

1177
00:52:44,440 --> 00:52:47,639
they feel not super shallow, but like you have seven

1178
00:52:47,719 --> 00:52:50,320
maybe eight, depending on how you feel about precious of

1179
00:52:50,360 --> 00:52:52,079
guys that you trust, and you could really you shoul

1180
00:52:52,079 --> 00:52:53,880
rely only say six because can you trust that Mitchell

1181
00:52:53,920 --> 00:52:55,760
Robinson's gonna be healthy? So let's just meet in the

1182
00:52:55,800 --> 00:52:58,679
middle at seven. But it's like, at the same time,

1183
00:52:58,679 --> 00:53:00,559
if you told me Michale has to some time for

1184
00:53:00,599 --> 00:53:02,599
the first time in his career, or we know we

1185
00:53:02,679 --> 00:53:05,679
know og is going to injure himself doing something, I

1186
00:53:05,719 --> 00:53:07,719
don't know that, I feel like, well, not they're fucked

1187
00:53:08,159 --> 00:53:12,360
because it's just like it's Jalen br and it's it's

1188
00:53:12,400 --> 00:53:14,760
a weird spot to be. But it's also okay, they're

1189
00:53:14,800 --> 00:53:16,559
deep at the top, which I think is what you

1190
00:53:16,599 --> 00:53:18,239
could say. We're a lot of teams when they have depth,

1191
00:53:18,480 --> 00:53:20,840
maybe it's more kind of scattered throughout the roster. It's

1192
00:53:21,079 --> 00:53:23,519
no we truncated our depth into the let's say our

1193
00:53:23,559 --> 00:53:26,719
top five guys, and it's we can't lose Jalen Brunson.

1194
00:53:26,960 --> 00:53:29,599
But could you lose any of the other four for

1195
00:53:29,639 --> 00:53:31,719
an extended period of time and still just be really good.

1196
00:53:31,960 --> 00:53:32,679
Speaker 3: I'm not wishing it.

1197
00:53:32,719 --> 00:53:34,679
Speaker 2: I'm just curious because we have this comment which made

1198
00:53:34,719 --> 00:53:35,239
me think of it.

1199
00:53:35,559 --> 00:53:38,000
Speaker 3: The Knicks are the better team, but Minnesota is deeper,

1200
00:53:38,239 --> 00:53:39,440
which I would probably agree with.

1201
00:53:39,559 --> 00:53:42,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, at least in terms of deeper, I think Minnesota

1202
00:53:42,280 --> 00:53:43,360
might still be the better team.

1203
00:53:43,400 --> 00:53:46,280
Speaker 1: I don't know, maybe I would say, like, I think

1204
00:53:46,280 --> 00:53:49,000
I take your point. I guess i'd say, Anonobi, just

1205
00:53:49,000 --> 00:53:52,280
because the defense matters more now that you're you're gonna

1206
00:53:52,280 --> 00:53:54,320
have cat as the center and you will need But

1207
00:53:54,360 --> 00:53:56,119
that was true when Randall was gonna play a bunch

1208
00:53:56,119 --> 00:53:59,280
of center too, right like it, So again we keep

1209
00:53:59,320 --> 00:54:00,880
coming back to that. The other thing you made me

1210
00:54:00,920 --> 00:54:02,760
think of talking about the depth is like this is

1211
00:54:02,800 --> 00:54:05,559
another Boston parallel. It's like, let's just get five or

1212
00:54:05,599 --> 00:54:08,719
six guys and then you know, after that, we'll just

1213
00:54:08,760 --> 00:54:10,400
figure it out. And that's kind of how the Knicks

1214
00:54:10,400 --> 00:54:13,239
are built now, right, Like that's you've got your ridiculous

1215
00:54:13,280 --> 00:54:16,360
starting five, and I don't know, is Deuce McBride that's

1216
00:54:16,360 --> 00:54:18,679
six guy? I'm sure maybe I'm finishing. Who am I forgetting?

1217
00:54:18,719 --> 00:54:23,280
Because if you just go brunts and heart Bridges, Ananobe Cat,

1218
00:54:23,519 --> 00:54:26,079
then you have I guess Robinson and then Deuce.

1219
00:54:25,920 --> 00:54:29,119
Speaker 2: Like those are your if you're healthy, those are your

1220
00:54:29,199 --> 00:54:32,639
eight and then it's like are we is I do

1221
00:54:32,719 --> 00:54:35,440
feel like is Landry Sham Landry Shaman, her campaign is

1222
00:54:35,440 --> 00:54:36,960
gonna wind up mattering to this team.

1223
00:54:37,280 --> 00:54:39,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, maybe, but that's your eighth guy, right, Like that's

1224
00:54:39,840 --> 00:54:41,760
Boston has the same issue. It's like, well, I mean

1225
00:54:41,960 --> 00:54:44,159
like the Knicks would kill out Sam Hauser or Peyton

1226
00:54:44,199 --> 00:54:47,519
Pritchard certainly, but like it's not that different. I really

1227
00:54:47,760 --> 00:54:50,159
I don't think teams really do this, maybe with some

1228
00:54:50,199 --> 00:54:53,360
exceptions of trying to beat like the the PJ. Tucker

1229
00:54:53,400 --> 00:54:55,679
at Center Rockets or the small ball Warriors, but like

1230
00:54:56,239 --> 00:54:58,320
the Knicks really do feel like they looked at the

1231
00:54:58,320 --> 00:55:00,960
Celtics and kind of decided, we're gonna have to beat you,

1232
00:55:01,000 --> 00:55:04,039
Like there's no way to the finals without going through you,

1233
00:55:04,199 --> 00:55:05,840
so let's just see what we need.

1234
00:55:06,119 --> 00:55:07,320
Speaker 3: Well, that was my actual question.

1235
00:55:07,400 --> 00:55:10,920
Speaker 2: Do after this trade forget about the landscape of the East,

1236
00:55:10,920 --> 00:55:13,079
do you view the Knicks as a better matchup for

1237
00:55:13,199 --> 00:55:17,079
Boston than before this trade like with that was what

1238
00:55:17,119 --> 00:55:19,440
it really comes down to, and I think I can't

1239
00:55:19,440 --> 00:55:21,840
remember it was Synergy. It was Todd Whitehead on Twitter

1240
00:55:22,159 --> 00:55:24,559
had this graph about teams that do the best job

1241
00:55:24,599 --> 00:55:26,719
of pulling opposing centers out of the paint, and the

1242
00:55:26,840 --> 00:55:28,320
Nicks were basically the worst team in the league.

1243
00:55:28,320 --> 00:55:28,559
Speaker 3: Get that.

1244
00:55:28,639 --> 00:55:32,119
Speaker 1: No, that's my main The main upsides of this is

1245
00:55:32,159 --> 00:55:35,519
if Kat can pull centers out, that makes Brunton better.

1246
00:55:35,760 --> 00:55:39,000
That that just makes everything work more sensibly on offense,

1247
00:55:39,119 --> 00:55:43,719
particularly against Boston because Porzingis is we talk I talk

1248
00:55:43,800 --> 00:55:45,760
all the time about like he's just the cheat code

1249
00:55:45,760 --> 00:55:48,280
against switches because you get buckets that way. That doesn't

1250
00:55:48,320 --> 00:55:50,280
involve anybody else having to do anything. He just posts

1251
00:55:50,320 --> 00:55:53,880
up smalls. But his rim protection is great, but he's

1252
00:55:53,920 --> 00:55:56,360
not great in space, Like I would love to be

1253
00:55:56,440 --> 00:56:00,159
able to attack Porzingis trying to like recover out to

1254
00:56:00,239 --> 00:56:02,480
cat or like all that stuff in a playoff series.

1255
00:56:02,519 --> 00:56:05,599
I do think that has to be a huge consideration

1256
00:56:05,719 --> 00:56:07,679
here for the Knicks is like what do we do

1257
00:56:08,880 --> 00:56:11,599
about Porzingis? And maybe it won't matter because maybe he

1258
00:56:11,639 --> 00:56:14,800
won't be healthy either, but like that is you have

1259
00:56:14,880 --> 00:56:16,679
to solve for that. If you're trying to beat Boston,

1260
00:56:16,719 --> 00:56:19,000
you have to assume you've got to solve for Porzingis

1261
00:56:19,039 --> 00:56:20,880
in addition to all the other great players they have.

1262
00:56:21,360 --> 00:56:23,239
Speaker 3: I guess I was just more so coming out.

1263
00:56:23,239 --> 00:56:26,639
Speaker 2: I guess objectively, they are just a better matchup because

1264
00:56:27,360 --> 00:56:30,199
Julius Randall, as you're big in that situation, isn't having

1265
00:56:30,239 --> 00:56:32,320
the same complimentary impact, and he's not going to have

1266
00:56:32,360 --> 00:56:35,719
this a defensive like or stark defensive impact or necessarily

1267
00:56:35,760 --> 00:56:37,599
a good one. But I also kind of look at

1268
00:56:37,599 --> 00:56:40,599
it like cat on defense as like kind of a

1269
00:56:40,679 --> 00:56:42,800
big like if he has to scramble away from Porzingis,

1270
00:56:42,840 --> 00:56:45,119
Like I think you could argue that a fully healthy

1271
00:56:45,119 --> 00:56:47,920
Porzingis is going to be way more equipped to do

1272
00:56:48,000 --> 00:56:50,119
what the Knicks are going to inflict upon him vice

1273
00:56:50,519 --> 00:56:51,360
than vice versa.

1274
00:56:51,440 --> 00:56:53,119
Speaker 1: I agree with that. I agree with that for sure.

1275
00:56:53,159 --> 00:56:55,679
The defensive questions are there for the Knicks. If kat

1276
00:56:55,719 --> 00:56:58,360
is your center, that's just unavoidable. Yeah.

1277
00:56:58,360 --> 00:57:00,519
Speaker 2: So I don't know if you have any other This

1278
00:57:00,679 --> 00:57:03,159
was ziggy. What do we think about the Wolves offense

1279
00:57:03,199 --> 00:57:03,719
will look like?

1280
00:57:03,840 --> 00:57:04,280
Speaker 3: Right now?

1281
00:57:04,400 --> 00:57:07,119
Speaker 2: I'm I'm fascinating, just I don't know what Julius Randall

1282
00:57:07,119 --> 00:57:07,960
looks like on this team.

1283
00:57:08,000 --> 00:57:09,480
Speaker 3: I think that's kind of where I'm at, where if

1284
00:57:09,480 --> 00:57:11,800
you're going to start him and play him with Gobert.

1285
00:57:12,159 --> 00:57:15,079
Speaker 2: We do sometimes get caught up in like having ball

1286
00:57:15,079 --> 00:57:18,480
handlers is good, and the Wolves needed those ball handlers.

1287
00:57:18,800 --> 00:57:20,320
I just it was a question with the Knicks, and

1288
00:57:20,360 --> 00:57:22,079
I will preface this. I think he did a better

1289
00:57:22,159 --> 00:57:25,000
job of it. But if you're not playing Dante DiVincenzo

1290
00:57:25,079 --> 00:57:26,559
for a lot of those minutes, is the floor going

1291
00:57:26,639 --> 00:57:30,280
to be open enough to convince or to optimize Julius

1292
00:57:30,360 --> 00:57:33,920
Randall doing the accessory work? And that's another like I

1293
00:57:33,920 --> 00:57:35,880
think this trade it kind of puts some pressure on

1294
00:57:35,960 --> 00:57:38,599
Jade McDaniels where it's if Julius Randall's starting, like hey kid,

1295
00:57:38,599 --> 00:57:40,199
like the three point volume needs to come up and

1296
00:57:40,239 --> 00:57:42,159
you can't wait till the playoffs to start making them.

1297
00:57:42,280 --> 00:57:44,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's true, But it does it pressurizes

1298
00:57:44,800 --> 00:57:47,599
a lot of other situations on the roster. For sure.

1299
00:57:48,239 --> 00:57:49,840
Let's do I want to do this one last one?

1300
00:57:49,880 --> 00:57:51,920
This Anya Joe Pilling has I can't pull these into

1301
00:57:51,960 --> 00:57:53,440
the into the video. Maybe you can.

1302
00:57:53,800 --> 00:57:55,920
Speaker 3: I don't get grand Da just or any anything I

1303
00:57:55,960 --> 00:57:56,239
had to.

1304
00:57:56,400 --> 00:57:58,719
Speaker 1: It's Catnip Gatt wanted to go to the Warriors, but

1305
00:57:58,719 --> 00:58:00,880
the Doves would not part with Kaminga. I hadn't heard that,

1306
00:58:01,079 --> 00:58:02,679
but I did have the thought of, like, if that's

1307
00:58:02,719 --> 00:58:05,559
what a cost to get Cat, Like, could New Orleans

1308
00:58:05,599 --> 00:58:08,840
have gotten involved? Could could all these other teams like, Like,

1309
00:58:09,199 --> 00:58:11,599
wasn't different other teams to get in there?

1310
00:58:12,840 --> 00:58:16,079
Speaker 2: So they could have. But I think like New Orleans,

1311
00:58:16,079 --> 00:58:17,559
the whole thing is, we don't want to pay Brandon

1312
00:58:17,639 --> 00:58:18,360
Ingram because we have.

1313
00:58:18,320 --> 00:58:19,159
Speaker 3: To pay Trey Murphy.

1314
00:58:19,360 --> 00:58:21,039
Speaker 2: Having Cat isn't gonna make that any easier for you

1315
00:58:21,159 --> 00:58:24,159
unless you're getting rid of both McCollum and Ingram in

1316
00:58:24,159 --> 00:58:27,960
the same trade. The Warriors is if they, like I

1317
00:58:27,960 --> 00:58:30,639
would be curious what the I wouldn't give up. You

1318
00:58:30,679 --> 00:58:33,119
wouldn't give up Kaminga for Cat. But it's like, what

1319
00:58:33,159 --> 00:58:36,280
did they want? And they got a Pistons. They could

1320
00:58:36,320 --> 00:58:39,280
say they wanted Kaminga, but they didn't accept anyone nearly

1321
00:58:39,320 --> 00:58:42,280
on the levels what people view Kaminga at. So I

1322
00:58:42,360 --> 00:58:45,519
ultimately think the step laddering of the salary to get

1323
00:58:45,559 --> 00:58:47,159
there would have been less impressive.

1324
00:58:46,800 --> 00:58:49,400
Speaker 3: Because you have Wiggans is not going to go back.

1325
00:58:49,280 --> 00:58:52,519
Speaker 2: To Minnesota like, imagine who's taken that contract and that

1326
00:58:52,599 --> 00:58:55,320
it's okay, Kevon Looney and GP two like that's and

1327
00:58:55,400 --> 00:58:56,000
Moses Moody.

1328
00:58:56,000 --> 00:58:57,079
Speaker 3: That's how you're starting to make up.

1329
00:58:57,000 --> 00:58:59,719
Speaker 1: The dollars seven other players to get to that salary

1330
00:58:59,760 --> 00:59:00,519
based I think.

1331
00:59:00,400 --> 00:59:02,639
Speaker 2: That's what made the Knicks an intriguing trade. Partners that

1332
00:59:02,679 --> 00:59:05,480
and also Julius Randall could potentially be useful to this team.

1333
00:59:05,519 --> 00:59:07,760
Is that, Okay, it took us two players, they're the

1334
00:59:07,760 --> 00:59:10,360
ones finding a third team and it's gonna save Look,

1335
00:59:10,440 --> 00:59:13,519
they're saving almost nine million in ross salary. That's gonna

1336
00:59:13,519 --> 00:59:15,199
save them a shit ton of money. And I haven't

1337
00:59:15,239 --> 00:59:17,840
calculated with the luxury tax savings are gonna be. So

1338
00:59:18,239 --> 00:59:21,679
whether I'm not gonna celebrate that, I'm still maybe that's

1339
00:59:21,679 --> 00:59:24,320
where we end it. I will say I'm disappointed I

1340
00:59:24,360 --> 00:59:26,599
think that Minnesota made this trade. If it pans out,

1341
00:59:26,679 --> 00:59:29,400
I'll eat my words. I wanted to see this group

1342
00:59:29,719 --> 00:59:31,599
come back, and I think part of it was I

1343
00:59:31,719 --> 00:59:34,840
was so fascinated by Rob Dillingham and I still am,

1344
00:59:34,880 --> 00:59:37,280
but like the concept of that move, and now I

1345
00:59:37,280 --> 00:59:39,079
do feel like, well, there's like less of a chance

1346
00:59:39,119 --> 00:59:40,760
that he's as integral, which.

1347
00:59:40,639 --> 00:59:41,559
Speaker 3: Might be better for them.

1348
00:59:41,559 --> 00:59:43,639
Speaker 2: So maybe I'm looking at it too much from a

1349
00:59:43,679 --> 00:59:48,000
storyline perspective, but I really thought this group as constructed

1350
00:59:48,039 --> 00:59:51,079
could win a title, and they could still.

1351
00:59:51,239 --> 00:59:53,239
Speaker 3: I just I was a fan of them running it back.

1352
00:59:53,280 --> 00:59:57,480
Speaker 2: And by the way, I because I've lampooned Denver and

1353
00:59:57,519 --> 01:00:00,679
the Clippers for doing this themselves, I compliment that the

1354
01:00:00,679 --> 01:00:03,559
Wolves celebrated them, like, oh, they are paying the second

1355
01:00:03,599 --> 01:00:05,840
apron this season, but they're clearly scared of it moving forward.

1356
01:00:05,880 --> 01:00:08,599
So you are no different than every other franchise. So

1357
01:00:08,639 --> 01:00:09,840
I have to eat those words.

1358
01:00:10,519 --> 01:00:13,199
Speaker 1: I think, my you just really crystallize it for me.

1359
01:00:13,639 --> 01:00:15,880
The next side of this is less complicated. It's a

1360
01:00:15,880 --> 01:00:18,239
bold move for the next because of the cost right

1361
01:00:19,039 --> 01:00:21,400
and the ups and downs of it. For the Wolves,

1362
01:00:21,519 --> 01:00:25,679
it's either bold or cowardly, and that depends entirely on

1363
01:00:25,719 --> 01:00:27,519
whether you believe this is a basketball move or a

1364
01:00:27,559 --> 01:00:29,599
financial move. And I don't know that we ever arrived

1365
01:00:29,599 --> 01:00:32,000
at like is it sixty forty fifty to fifty seventy

1366
01:00:32,159 --> 01:00:34,719
like it like because it's cowardly if it's just, oh,

1367
01:00:34,760 --> 01:00:36,679
we don't want to pay this money and therefore we're

1368
01:00:36,679 --> 01:00:38,320
not going to get to see what this team can

1369
01:00:38,360 --> 01:00:41,400
be if we give it another year together. It's really bold.

1370
01:00:41,480 --> 01:00:44,440
If they sat down and were crunching numbers and like

1371
01:00:44,480 --> 01:00:47,039
talking about the analytics numbers, not the money and stuff,

1372
01:00:47,519 --> 01:00:50,280
and said like, no, we will be better after trading

1373
01:00:50,280 --> 01:00:53,079
Cat for this package, Like and I'm not foreclosing on

1374
01:00:53,119 --> 01:00:56,480
that being most of the motivation, but we'll see. Like

1375
01:00:56,559 --> 01:00:59,440
I think the cynical and maybe realistic slash practical approach

1376
01:00:59,519 --> 01:01:02,000
is like this is money or this is mostly money,

1377
01:01:02,119 --> 01:01:03,719
but not sure.

1378
01:01:04,039 --> 01:01:06,079
Speaker 2: If I think it just to me if if you

1379
01:01:06,119 --> 01:01:09,800
wind up losing like nas read next year and naw,

1380
01:01:09,920 --> 01:01:11,239
but if I look at it through the lens of

1381
01:01:11,320 --> 01:01:13,320
right now, would you rather have those three with Danta

1382
01:01:13,360 --> 01:01:16,400
Evincenzo or Karl Anthony Towns on this team what it's become,

1383
01:01:16,440 --> 01:01:19,519
plus that Detroit first round pick and Trey. By the way,

1384
01:01:19,599 --> 01:01:21,719
Johnson the comments agrees with you. Granny doesn't think the

1385
01:01:21,719 --> 01:01:24,840
pick is going to convey either. I think I prefer that,

1386
01:01:25,119 --> 01:01:26,920
but I thought, I don't know. I wanted to see

1387
01:01:26,960 --> 01:01:28,840
this Timberld team running back. And maybe it's the the

1388
01:01:28,840 --> 01:01:32,679
emotional component of Kat being there his entire career and

1389
01:01:32,760 --> 01:01:37,000
living through just so much like just dumpster fire stuff there.

1390
01:01:37,119 --> 01:01:39,880
But unless you have anything else, are you ready to

1391
01:01:39,920 --> 01:01:40,639
take us out of here?

1392
01:01:40,679 --> 01:01:42,639
Speaker 1: Yeah? Thanks everybody for jumping on, Thanks for all the

1393
01:01:42,719 --> 01:01:46,599
questions and the comments. Uh thanks Nicks and Wolves for

1394
01:01:46,840 --> 01:01:47,519
just for them.

1395
01:01:47,599 --> 01:01:50,400
Speaker 2: No, no, they dated some content that we were still

1396
01:01:50,440 --> 01:01:53,039
gonna post and now we can't both o. Yeah, double

1397
01:01:53,679 --> 01:01:56,079
somewhere to get your ship, your your ducks in a row.

1398
01:01:56,760 --> 01:02:00,559
Speaker 1: They ruin content for us, but they also created some.

1399
01:02:00,679 --> 01:02:03,360
I already had to edit something that I'd filed. Thanks

1400
01:02:03,400 --> 01:02:05,000
a lot, because I said the Knicks are going to

1401
01:02:05,079 --> 01:02:07,440
trade for a center and something that's gonna publish next week.

1402
01:02:07,239 --> 01:02:10,599
Speaker 3: And honestly they kind of still need to.

1403
01:02:12,599 --> 01:02:18,119
Speaker 1: Leave it. Yeah. Thanks everybody. If you have an already

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rate review, subscribe, follow us wherever you get your podcast,

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comment thumbs up on YouTube here, help the algorithm on

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us back. Check out our merch. I'm wearing old merch

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which does have e Minchel Robinson's name on it, and

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I am sorry new merch. Oh look out love it.

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Thanks everybody. I even should apologize it. I'm not gonna

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apologize to Mischel Robins shouts Frank Milky apologies. Jared Allen