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Speaker 1: Well, it's my pleasure to welcome to our podcast this

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week and it's the WBC. Here's theweight world champion, bad

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new Jack that due. It's been a while since we've talked,

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but you have an important fight coming up. You'll be

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defending your title in a rematch against Duel mccallian, former champion,

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take place December thirteenth at the Ace Mission Studios in

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Los Angeles. It's the headliner of the Vast Promotions pay

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perview that's going to be a babble all over. I

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was looking at all the places people can see it,

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Integrated Sports, PPV, dot Com, Prime Video, Triller TV, so

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anybody can can check it out. So welcome to the show.

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Thank you very much for doing this. Thank you appreciate that.

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All right, So you have one bad Do world titles

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at super middleweight at light heavyweight, and in twenty twenty

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three had a very big win, a great knockout victory

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against Junior Macabu to win this WBC cruiserweight title. And

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then I know there was word from the WBC was

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discussed at their convention that you were interested to go

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up to their newly created weight division to try to

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become a champion, he yet another weight class. If that

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did not happen, there was a lot of back and

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forth politics, fights that didn't happen, that fell out, this

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and that, and then you ended up not fighting for

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two years. Can you just briefly explain sort of what

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was going on there and the disappointment of not getting

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that opportunity and having that very long way off.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: So basically at the time I was with the Skills Challenge, Yeah,

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the other Saudi promoter before Turkey took over, and yeah,

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I guess they paid them beside money to the to

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the guy that was the mandatory for that title or something.

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So they wanted me to become a fourth division champion

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and that was the plan against this I think it

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was a Polish guy. Then Saudi politics whatever, the Prince

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Khalet who was ahead of Skilled Challenge. Yeah, they removed

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in from boxing or whatever, and so that fight never happened,

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and then yeah, a lot of politics been waiting for

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a fight since then, and uh, I guess they put

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me in champion in recess while I was going to

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move up.

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Speaker 2: And then.

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Speaker 3: That's the reason why Mchueleam fought for for my vacant belt.

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Speaker 2: And then we were trying to fight him and he

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his brother.

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Speaker 3: At the WC convention last year, his brother represented him

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and they I talked to him and he said, yeah,

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let's let's.

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Speaker 2: Make the fight blah blah blah.

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Speaker 3: And then when the Sunday we were supposed to get

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over on stage and talk in front of the WBC

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and they didn't want that fight. And then Mauricio said,

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we're here to solve this situation. You have a mandatory

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champion in recess, current champion. This is all a mess,

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and you don't want to fight the champion and he's

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the biggest name out of all of you guys too,

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and then so they so I was like, yeah, who

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don't I fight the mandatory whatever the Canadian guy. Yeah,

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so they so they downgraded him to champion in recess

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and they upgraded me back and then yeah, and then

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he got.

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Speaker 2: Injured, so I so the was like, who you want

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to fight?

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Speaker 3: I said, because this is a mess with all the

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mandatories and champion reason, let me just fight Michael so

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I can move on and fight the unification fights.

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Speaker 2: Well, so you're right, the easier fights, but but I said,

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give me him.

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Speaker 1: You use the perfect word the WBC cruiserweight title situation

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has been an absolute mess, not for the fault of

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the fighters so much, but a lot of the scheduling issues, injuries,

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politics has But you ultimately had the two year layoffs. Yeah,

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how frustrating. Was that very very frustrating. Yeah, I mean

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I was back on top.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I had a great fight and everything, and then yeah,

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we lost the momentum a little bit. But uh yeah

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I'm still here. I'm still I've been training super hard

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ever since. And uh yeah, now we got that fight.

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It wasn't my best fight, but I clearly won in

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my opinion, and it was a close fight. But nobody

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except from his team, you know, and thought that was

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you're you're talking about the fight that took place this

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past May. In read it was on the undercard when

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Canelo Alvarez had the headliner against Williams Skull, And like

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you said, you won. You won that fight very close.

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One thing I wanted to ask about that, and I

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find this very fascinating. I've talked to some other fighters

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who've been in the same situation because the fight was

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in Saudi Arabia and they were doing it to make

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it more conducive to the North American time zone, where

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Canelo's fans were. You guys fought in the middle of

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the night, which is a weird thing I think for

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most fighters.

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Speaker 2: Actually morning. It was six am or five am something. Yeah,

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well that's right, that was right.

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Speaker 1: What was that like, just because it was kind of

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a weird vibe because it's not like a regular time

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where you would be in a boxing match.

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Speaker 2: I mean, it's the same thing for everybody though, so

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so my opponent.

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Speaker 3: Everybody that was on the car is weird, weird, But yeah,

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we had to train like fight week, like at two am,

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three am.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it was. It was a little difficult, but no excuses.

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Speaker 3: We it's a fight, so who cares what time it

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is if somebody jumped you on the street, right, take

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what time it is.

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Speaker 2: No, you gotta fight.

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Speaker 1: So that's a great way that I never thought about

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it like that, but you're right about it. So you

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guys had a Yeah, it was a pretty good fight,

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but a very close fight, as you mentioned. But in

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the end, the two judges had to fight one fifteen

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to one thirteen for you, the third judge had at

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one fourteen one fourteen. You win the majority decision. You

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said just a minute ago, it wasn't your best fight.

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Could you more uh more assess your performance in that,

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because I've certainly seen you fight better over the years.

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Speaker 3: Now. Yeah, maybe a little bit of a ring offs

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and uh you know, switch up opponent five in the morning,

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all that stuff. But yeah, he if to me in

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the before the twelve round. My coaches are, yeah, all right,

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it's a twelve round.

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Speaker 2: Last round. It was the last round.

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Speaker 3: I feel like it was like seven eight was like

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a sparing session, so it was in. Yeah, I was

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definitely not tired and nothing. I didn't push myself. So yeah,

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but but I'm glad that we have the fight again

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so I can show everybody that this guy is not

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on my level. But at the same time, we're wasting

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time and stuff for the big fights.

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Speaker 2: But it is what it is. Don King promoter appealed,

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which is crazy.

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Speaker 3: But yeah, I guess he's been a good friend with

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the WC, but the same thing with me, Mauricia, and

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then they showed me a lot of love and I

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got nothing but respect for them.

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Speaker 1: So you mentioned that he did take the match out

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about three weeks notice. Because your original opponent, Rosiki Ryan

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Rosiki from Canada had suffered an injury, and so, like

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you said, when the fight was over and it was

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close and they had a very you know, like a

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one point or one round decision to win for you

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on the two cards, they appealed to the WBC to

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ask for a rematch.

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Speaker 2: It was ordered. Uh.

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Speaker 1: I know you said, you want to, you know, prove

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to him that you're the better man. But were a

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little disappointed the ordered the rematch because, like you said,

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time's a waste and there's some other bigger fights out there.

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You had other champions that were looking for uh other

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other unific you know, unification fights and bigger fights themselves.

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But now you're in a position where you have to

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run it back.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: I mean, like, uh, it's insane to me. Nobody wanted

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to see this fight other than you know, his teammates,

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his his manager maybe and his family. So nobody want

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to see that. But but now it is what it is.

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Speaker 2: We're here.

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Speaker 3: But imagine all the time that I've been robbed maybe

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four times from bullshit draws, and with Deguil and Stevenson,

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I never got no rematch, and this is a closed

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fight with a with a no name guy nobody care

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about and they're going to order remits.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, it is what it is.

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Speaker 1: You know, one of the craziest things I have ever

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seen in my time. I've been covered boxing almost twenty

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six years. They did a purse fit for this match,

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this rematch, and and Dashed Promotion, which is ultimately going

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to be the company that's promoting this pay per view fight,

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and Don King his promoter, they did the same amount.

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I had never seen a tie perspect. I asked Marcy

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Solomon from the WBC about that. He said, in all

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of his years in boxing, and he's conducted and been

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involved with a thousand perspects, also has never seen a tie.

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Perspect Both of them did two hundred and fifty thousand dollars.

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Speaker 3: Uh.

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Speaker 1: I mean when you heard that, like, did you? I mean,

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you're going to be the answer to a trivia question.

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I think for a long long time. What's the purspid

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that was a tie? When you heard that? What were

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your thoughts? That was wacky?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, to be I didn't even follow it. I know

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this is craning gap money, not even so. Yeah, it's crazy,

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but that's that's what I'm saying. Nobody want to see.

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Speaker 2: This fight, So the WC would have.

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Speaker 3: Made more money. All everybody would have made more money.

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Fight like a real name. You know the other champions

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are you?

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Speaker 1: You're doing this? I guess too. You want to preserve

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your title. Yeah, of course you can't make a guy fight.

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I mean if you don't, you know, but if you

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want to keep the belt, you got to do the rematch.

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Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, no, I want to fight. This is not

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there was not like a great performance. I won though,

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to me, I clearly won. It was a close fight,

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but it wasn't like he was holding I was the aggressor.

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I was landing the cleanup punches. I mean, like, I

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don't I don't even understand why.

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Speaker 1: So what do you think you learned them from the

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first fight that you want to make sure that you

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do better when you face him in this rematch?

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Speaker 3: Everything everything, I feel like, I'm stronger, I'm faster, I'm

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a smarter fighter, have better defense, I have better experience everything,

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So yeah, I look better everything.

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Speaker 1: Was there anything that he did in the first fight

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that you feel like he did well, or at least

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well enough in the eyes of the judges to have

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it so close?

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Speaker 2: Yeh?

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Speaker 3: I mean he's a consistent. He was, He was okay,

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but nothing exceptional. He's a decent fighter. But yeah, when

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I'm on my game, it's not gonna be no close fight.

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Speaker 1: You have been a professional bat dude for a long time.

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Sixteen years. Uh, that's a that's a that's a that's

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a long career by any stretch in terms of boxing.

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What kind of goals do you still have? Is it

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a matter of that still you you harbor desires to

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move up and try to win a title in the

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bridgerweight division. Is it to unified titles in the cruiserweight

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division or is there something else?

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Speaker 2: Yeah?

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Speaker 3: Definitely unified, Uh, and the cruise of weight.

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Speaker 2: I want to become undisputed and and then we'll see.

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Speaker 1: So bridger weight's not so much on your mind anymore,

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I guess no.

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Speaker 3: It was just uh at that time, you know, just

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to say you became a champion and for different weight classes,

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you know, and I was actually gonna just gonna.

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Speaker 1: Go beat that guy and then continue that cruiser it. Okay,

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So you mentioned about unification fight. So Ji Opataia, he

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is considered the lineal champion, he has the IVF title,

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he has a mandatory that's coming up. You have Zerdo

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Ramirez who has two of the belt. The other two

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belts obviously you have the fourth belt.

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Speaker 2: Uh.

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Speaker 1: Zerdo is coming off of a surgery. He's at a

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gonna have a tune up fight in January, and then

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he signed to defend against David Benavitez in May. Uh,

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if you could choose as a unification fight, assuming you

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do well and everything works out for you on December thirteenth,

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is there one of those two that you would most

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rather fight for a unification?

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Speaker 2: I mean, look at it two ways.

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Speaker 3: I want to fight the guy do they they say

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is the best out of them, and it looks like

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they're saying Apataia is the best. But but then again,

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also who's bringing the most money? He got a country

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behind him, uh ramires but uh yeah, like he's busy

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with he's actually fighting a guy from my country and

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one of my boys, one of my he used to

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be my sparing bunny.

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Speaker 2: He's a good kid.

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Speaker 1: Rob your far Oh so that's that who? Uh that's

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who Zero is gonna fight come up in January?

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Speaker 3: January, Yeah, and then he fights Beneveta so so uh,

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I guess Opataiah is the only one that's uh going

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to be available, So I would love to fight him.

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I called him out last year. I'm trying to make

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that fight. We did a face off in Saudist I've

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been waiting for that fight.

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Speaker 1: I mean, neither one of them would probably be you know,

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interesting matchup and obviously a lot of stake because of

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the belts and the fact that you guys are all

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at the top of the division.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I want to take you back just for a minute,

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because every time your name coming up or I think about,

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but dude, Jack fight, this fight was, you know, being

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promoted and getting ready to take place. Take you back

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for a minute. I was ringside at the Barclay Center.

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You had a unification fight. You mentioned James Degall's name

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a little earlier. It was a WBC IBF super middleweight

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unification fight. You got knocked down in the first round,

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you knocked him down in the twelfth round, and there

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was all kinds of chaos in between. It was one

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of the best fights I can remember being at for

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a very very long time. Just a superb fight. I

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think dramatically underrated when when people talk about the great

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fights of of that era. What are your membories of

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that fight, and why did we never get the rematching

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you and James de Gail.

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Speaker 2: I couldn't make the way, but it was a great fight. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Knocked down it was a flash knock. That was a

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balance shot. Then in the first round, I think I

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knocked out his teeth. Yep, I hit the ref and

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not down. I dropped the ref.

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Speaker 1: It was a crazy by accident, right by accident.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Gavonta Davis became he was Cole Maine, he became

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a champion.

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Speaker 1: It was good, It was a good night. That was

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a I was a bonkers fight. Though this is back

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in so people have time reference twenty seventeen. Uh one

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of I think probably one of the best super midle

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white fights frankly in the history of the division.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that was a great fight.

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Speaker 3: So yeah, I've struggled to make uh wait for for

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the fight before that against Luciamboute. So I was like that,

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I was good almost. I couldn't make the waight uh

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for that fight, but I made it, and I was like, yeah,

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this is my lit Let's do the unification. That's my

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last fight at super middle right, and then even like heavy,

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it wasn't easy for me. So yeah, that's the reason.

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But uh, yeah, after that, he was done. After that

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fight he loves pretty much. Yeah, get it, so he

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actually can have been almost ten years later.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you know who really won that fight. That's a

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good point. He actually came back not that long ago,

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and I think he had a bare knuckle fight, you know,

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in the recent weeks. Yeah, but dude, you are You're

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forty two years old. Like I said, you've been doing

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this sixteen years. You're still on top in terms of

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being a champion in the cruiserweight division. But if you

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given thought about, like how much long do you want

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to do this? I mean, it's been a long career.

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Forty two not forty three. I said forty two. Forty two.

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Speaker 2: Oh I thought I said. I heard it wrong. I

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don't know. We'll see.

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Speaker 1: Uh you saw that to keep training and keep putting

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yourself for all the struggles.

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Speaker 3: Always, always, always, And now that I've moved up in weight,

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I don't really have to struggle to make weight that much.

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Speaker 2: So I feel good. I feel great.

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Speaker 3: So we'll see. I take one pin at a time.

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We love to become undisputed, and we'll see.

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Speaker 1: Well it starts with Doell McKellan in the rematch. I

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know you want to have a more clear cut victory

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in the second fight than you did in the first fight.

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So I wish you best of luck on December thirteenth,

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and I appreciate you doing this money.

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Speaker 2: Best of luck for you. Thank you, I appreciate it.

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Thank Cam