WEBVTT 1 00:00:06.240 --> 00:00:10.000 Hey everybody, and welcome back to another episode of JavaScript Jabber. 2 00:00:10.320 --> 00:00:12.960 This week, on our panel, we have a j O'Neill. 3 00:00:12.800 --> 00:00:15.679 Yo, yeah yo, coming at you live from Pleasant, Pleasant Grove. 4 00:00:16.079 --> 00:00:19.320 Amy Knight he hey from Nashville. Dan Shapier Hi from 5 00:00:19.320 --> 00:00:22.079 Tel Aviv. I'm Charles max Wood from dev chat dot TV. 6 00:00:22.440 --> 00:00:25.320 And Dan, you were kind of filling us in a 7 00:00:25.359 --> 00:00:28.480 little bit before the show talking about core web vitals. 8 00:00:28.760 --> 00:00:32.079 Is that what that's called? Yeah, that's that's what I 9 00:00:32.320 --> 00:00:35.039 thought that it'll be interesting to speak about. It's not 10 00:00:35.119 --> 00:00:38.799 like we haven't exactly spoken about it before. I actually 11 00:00:39.000 --> 00:00:42.079 was a guest on a previous show that was all 12 00:00:42.079 --> 00:00:45.359 about the alphabet soup of performance metrics. I called the 13 00:00:45.399 --> 00:00:49.560 ad different acronyms, And later on we had Rick Viscomi 14 00:00:49.600 --> 00:00:53.799 from Google talking about how they collect this information, and 15 00:00:53.840 --> 00:00:57.200 then we had Martin Split from Google talking about how 16 00:00:57.200 --> 00:00:59.799 they use this information at least to an extent. But 17 00:01:00.119 --> 00:01:03.200 I still think that there's a lot to discuss here 18 00:01:03.240 --> 00:01:06.719 and to take apart, and especially given that I'm going 19 00:01:06.799 --> 00:01:09.159 to take this kind of an opinionated view of this 20 00:01:09.200 --> 00:01:13.840 whole thing, very non corporate. So everything that I'm saying 21 00:01:13.920 --> 00:01:16.799 is my own opinions and nothing to do with my 22 00:01:16.879 --> 00:01:20.400 employers or anything like that. Hopefully I won't get into 23 00:01:20.439 --> 00:01:21.040 any trouble. 24 00:01:21.480 --> 00:01:24.799 Yeah. So yeah, what what are core web vitals? I 25 00:01:24.840 --> 00:01:26.120 think that's a good place to start. 26 00:01:26.400 --> 00:01:29.400 Well, that's yeah, that's a good place to start. So 27 00:01:29.560 --> 00:01:33.840 it turns out that Google thinks that the web should 28 00:01:33.879 --> 00:01:38.640 be faster. That that is that when people visit websites, 29 00:01:39.239 --> 00:01:44.000 the websites should should load faster, should respond faster, and 30 00:01:44.200 --> 00:01:49.799 overall provide a better experience to those visitors. I like 31 00:01:49.879 --> 00:01:53.200 to say that, you know, we're kind of lucky that 32 00:01:53.760 --> 00:01:56.719 the good of the web, not always, but in many 33 00:01:56.760 --> 00:02:01.079 cases kind of aligns with the Google's bots online. They 34 00:02:01.200 --> 00:02:04.560 make most of of their money, most of their revenue 35 00:02:04.760 --> 00:02:07.159 from ads. I think Google is like the biggest ad 36 00:02:07.200 --> 00:02:09.919 company in the world or something like that. Maybe Facebook 37 00:02:10.000 --> 00:02:12.479 might be giving them a run for that position, but 38 00:02:12.719 --> 00:02:14.879 other than that, I think they're the biggest by far. 39 00:02:15.280 --> 00:02:17.680 And most of that, not all of it, but most 40 00:02:17.680 --> 00:02:21.719 of it I think is coming from ads on websites. 41 00:02:22.159 --> 00:02:26.599 So Google has this incentive that more people browse the web, 42 00:02:27.639 --> 00:02:31.439 because then more people will be exposed to their ads, 43 00:02:31.479 --> 00:02:34.599 and Google makes more money, and that means that they 44 00:02:34.599 --> 00:02:37.319 want a better web, a web that people spend more 45 00:02:37.360 --> 00:02:39.759 time on, and for me, as a proponent of the 46 00:02:39.800 --> 00:02:43.680 open web, that's really a good thing. So I'm really 47 00:02:43.719 --> 00:02:48.199 happy that this alignment has happened. And whatever their motivation, 48 00:02:48.319 --> 00:02:51.360 as long as is they're doing good things, well, I'm 49 00:02:51.360 --> 00:02:54.680 happy about it. And when Google tries to push the 50 00:02:54.759 --> 00:02:58.159 industry in what they consider to be the right direction, 51 00:02:58.719 --> 00:03:01.919 they have like these two whips that they can use 52 00:03:02.000 --> 00:03:05.840 to prod us along, to get us going. And one 53 00:03:06.280 --> 00:03:10.159 huge whip is the Google Search. All of us want 54 00:03:10.280 --> 00:03:14.039 our websites to rank, because if you don't rank, then 55 00:03:14.039 --> 00:03:18.120 you don't exist. And if they make something a ranking 56 00:03:18.199 --> 00:03:22.199 factor or ranking signal then and then go public about 57 00:03:22.240 --> 00:03:26.120 it telling everybody that that's the case, well, people have 58 00:03:26.199 --> 00:03:31.360 this huge incentive to invest in that aspect of their website. 59 00:03:31.479 --> 00:03:34.039 And that's one thing that they can do and they 60 00:03:34.120 --> 00:03:36.400 have done in the past. And the other thing that 61 00:03:36.560 --> 00:03:39.680 the other whip that they hold is the Chrome web browser, 62 00:03:40.000 --> 00:03:42.639 which I think is the most popular web browser at 63 00:03:42.719 --> 00:03:44.879 least that's what I see when I look at the 64 00:03:44.879 --> 00:03:49.319 WIG statistics about the browsers that our visitors are mostly using. 65 00:03:49.879 --> 00:03:55.800 And that's also whip because they can adjust the Chrome 66 00:03:55.960 --> 00:04:01.280 UI to encourage certain things in websites. And I'll give 67 00:04:01.319 --> 00:04:05.360 an example. A few years ago, Google decided that the 68 00:04:05.400 --> 00:04:09.400 web needs to be h GDPs everywhere, that if we 69 00:04:09.479 --> 00:04:13.759 want the web to be good, it needs to respect privacy, 70 00:04:13.879 --> 00:04:17.839 it needs to respect security, and for that it needs 71 00:04:17.839 --> 00:04:20.279 to be a GTPs. Now, you know, I still remember 72 00:04:20.399 --> 00:04:23.000 not so long ago, if you would go to some 73 00:04:23.279 --> 00:04:27.160 online store or whatever, and it would be just h GDP, 74 00:04:27.519 --> 00:04:31.800 and it wouldn't turn to HDPS until you were actually 75 00:04:31.839 --> 00:04:34.240 at the checkout. And then let's say it might redirect 76 00:04:34.240 --> 00:04:37.120 to PayPal or something like that, and only then would 77 00:04:37.120 --> 00:04:41.000 it actually become AGTPS. But all the rest of the thing, 78 00:04:41.040 --> 00:04:44.120 the entire process was over at GDP, which from my 79 00:04:44.240 --> 00:04:47.199 perspective is also problematic because I don't want people to 80 00:04:47.240 --> 00:04:50.800 know what I'm shopping for. And Google rightfully, you know, 81 00:04:50.920 --> 00:04:53.680 concluded that that's a bad thing and that everybody should 82 00:04:53.720 --> 00:04:57.120 be AHGTPS all the time. I hope everybody agrees with 83 00:04:57.240 --> 00:05:00.959 me here. And what they did is they exactly use 84 00:05:01.120 --> 00:05:03.519 these two whips that they had so in the in 85 00:05:03.560 --> 00:05:07.879 the search, they basically told people that h GTPs is 86 00:05:07.920 --> 00:05:11.560 going to be a ranking factor that all other things 87 00:05:11.600 --> 00:05:14.079 being equal, if there are like two sites that have 88 00:05:14.519 --> 00:05:19.879 equivalent that content and authority, one is a GTPs and 89 00:05:19.959 --> 00:05:23.639 the other is h GDP, the one that uses HDPS 90 00:05:23.680 --> 00:05:26.920 will rank over the one that just uses HTP. Now, 91 00:05:27.160 --> 00:05:29.920 to be fair, it doesn't even need to be true. 92 00:05:30.560 --> 00:05:33.959 It's just sufficient that they say that that's what they're 93 00:05:33.959 --> 00:05:36.439 going to do, and that really gets a lot of 94 00:05:36.439 --> 00:05:39.879 people going. And the other thing that they did is 95 00:05:39.920 --> 00:05:43.759 that they modified the chrome UI initially to put this 96 00:05:43.879 --> 00:05:47.959 kind of a greenish background behind htps r LS and 97 00:05:48.000 --> 00:05:52.399 then put a reddish background behind h GDP or LS. I 98 00:05:52.439 --> 00:05:55.680 think that now there are that's done. They have this 99 00:05:56.240 --> 00:05:58.680 lock icon. I don't think they put the colors anymore. 100 00:05:59.000 --> 00:06:02.519 But they got it into people's heads that h GDP 101 00:06:03.560 --> 00:06:06.519 was dangerous, that it's not a good thing, and then 102 00:06:06.519 --> 00:06:09.439 that you should prefer h GDPs, and they use chrome 103 00:06:09.800 --> 00:06:13.519 for that purpose. So by using these two things, these 104 00:06:13.519 --> 00:06:17.240 two whips, like I said, or prags, they got us 105 00:06:17.279 --> 00:06:21.199 all moving in the right direction. And now they are 106 00:06:21.240 --> 00:06:25.879 effectively doing or trying to do the exact same thing 107 00:06:26.360 --> 00:06:30.120 with regard to performance. And that's where core web vitals 108 00:06:30.600 --> 00:06:31.519 come into the picture. 109 00:06:31.759 --> 00:06:34.040 Now, yeah, that makes sense. It's funny too, because I 110 00:06:34.079 --> 00:06:36.319 remember when they made some of those changes, people were 111 00:06:36.439 --> 00:06:41.160 especially your HTTPS example, a lot of folks were frustrated 112 00:06:41.199 --> 00:06:43.720 because they were just content sites and things like that 113 00:06:43.800 --> 00:06:46.439 and they didn't want to have to go to HTTPS. 114 00:06:46.480 --> 00:06:49.680 But yeah, I agree with you that that makes sense. 115 00:06:49.759 --> 00:06:53.439 It's interesting that Google has put themselves in a position 116 00:06:53.519 --> 00:06:57.839 to sort of push some of these ideas or push 117 00:06:57.879 --> 00:07:02.240 some of these technological choices right where I think a 118 00:07:02.279 --> 00:07:04.720 lot of other companies would have just let things coast, right. 119 00:07:04.759 --> 00:07:06.959 It would have been like, well, whatever people want to do, right, 120 00:07:07.279 --> 00:07:08.720 and so it would have been up to the public 121 00:07:08.800 --> 00:07:12.480 instead of up to folks like Google to push some 122 00:07:12.560 --> 00:07:13.120 of this stuff. 123 00:07:13.240 --> 00:07:14.759 I don't want to get a soft track, so just 124 00:07:14.800 --> 00:07:17.759 don't answer if it does. But what is the incentive 125 00:07:17.839 --> 00:07:20.560 for Google wanting people to have HTTPS? I get why 126 00:07:20.600 --> 00:07:22.560 it's good for me, but I don't get why it's 127 00:07:22.560 --> 00:07:26.120 good for them. Well, AD revenue, ad revenue, they not 128 00:07:26.160 --> 00:07:29.160 getting those malicious ad jacker things. 129 00:07:29.199 --> 00:07:32.160 Maybe is that it's a sad look. I haven't tried 130 00:07:32.160 --> 00:07:34.759 to do a deeper specific analysis of that, but I 131 00:07:34.879 --> 00:07:37.199 tend to agree. But like I said at the beginning, 132 00:07:37.879 --> 00:07:41.680 Google wants the web to be a pleasant and and 133 00:07:41.759 --> 00:07:45.600 a safe place that people want to use. Like you 134 00:07:45.639 --> 00:07:48.879 wouldn't go to buy at the store that where there 135 00:07:48.920 --> 00:07:52.560 are a lot of pickpockets hanging around and maybe stealing 136 00:07:52.560 --> 00:07:55.399 your stuff or whatever. You want to go somewhere where 137 00:07:55.480 --> 00:07:58.959 you feel safe while doing the shopping, and they wanted 138 00:07:59.000 --> 00:08:02.639 to be the experience when you're online. So that would 139 00:08:02.639 --> 00:08:07.040 be my guess. But like I said, I think that 140 00:08:07.279 --> 00:08:10.399 we're kind of lucky in that the overall the good 141 00:08:10.399 --> 00:08:12.680 of the web in most cases, not all cases, and 142 00:08:12.879 --> 00:08:15.480 we shouldn't always count on it to be true, but 143 00:08:15.639 --> 00:08:17.839 in a lot of cases, the good of the web 144 00:08:17.879 --> 00:08:22.079 and the good of financial benefit of Google currently align, 145 00:08:22.560 --> 00:08:26.160 which is lucky for us. Is don't aligned that much 146 00:08:26.240 --> 00:08:29.360 with Apple, for example, which is not really unfortunate for us. 147 00:08:29.560 --> 00:08:32.000 So I guess the point, you know, coming back to 148 00:08:32.039 --> 00:08:35.720 the web vitals and performance is again they want it 149 00:08:35.720 --> 00:08:37.759 to be a good experience where people are happy to 150 00:08:37.759 --> 00:08:40.600 come to the web, and so they're encouraging people now 151 00:08:40.639 --> 00:08:44.320 on performance in the same way they did for HTTPS, 152 00:08:45.120 --> 00:08:48.080 in the sense that yeah, it's good for the web, 153 00:08:48.600 --> 00:08:50.919 it's good for the consumers of the web, and so 154 00:08:51.120 --> 00:08:53.559 Google is going to push it forward because more people 155 00:08:53.559 --> 00:08:54.639 on the web is good for them. 156 00:08:55.200 --> 00:08:57.639 Yes, at least that's how I see it. And again 157 00:08:57.720 --> 00:09:00.519 this is my opinion. Like I said, is going to 158 00:09:00.519 --> 00:09:07.000 be an opinionated episode, and that's my understanding of the situation. 159 00:09:07.559 --> 00:09:11.080 But it also raises the problem that they were facing 160 00:09:11.320 --> 00:09:16.240 because with HGDPS, it's really clear cut either the site 161 00:09:16.440 --> 00:09:20.159 uses HGTPS or or it doesn't, and it's very easy 162 00:09:20.159 --> 00:09:23.159 for them to see that that's the case. In the 163 00:09:23.159 --> 00:09:27.759 case of performance, how do you actually determine if a 164 00:09:27.799 --> 00:09:32.039 website has good performance or not? And what does good 165 00:09:32.080 --> 00:09:35.919 performance actually constitute, how do you measure it, and what 166 00:09:35.960 --> 00:09:38.960 do you actually measure What might be good performance for 167 00:09:39.080 --> 00:09:41.960 one type of a website might be bad for a 168 00:09:42.000 --> 00:09:46.000 different type of website. Or it's also dependent on geographic 169 00:09:46.120 --> 00:09:49.639 locations because the web, let's say, in Canada, is much 170 00:09:49.679 --> 00:09:52.600 faster than the web, let's say, in India. So it 171 00:09:52.720 --> 00:09:56.440 gets much more complicated when when you look at that 172 00:09:56.600 --> 00:10:01.360 factor of performance, and that that's kind of the reason 173 00:10:01.440 --> 00:10:05.600 that we had that big episode a while back on 174 00:10:06.440 --> 00:10:10.720 where are literally listed for an entire hour and in 175 00:10:10.759 --> 00:10:14.879 a bit of that entire recording, a whole bunch of 176 00:10:15.480 --> 00:10:20.080 performance metrics, because there are a lot of different measurements 177 00:10:20.080 --> 00:10:23.159 that you can take in when you're trying to gauge 178 00:10:23.200 --> 00:10:26.840 the performance of a particular website, so it really becomes 179 00:10:26.840 --> 00:10:32.279 tricky and in order to kind of address so oh, 180 00:10:32.360 --> 00:10:36.000 let me put it differently. When Google decided that they're 181 00:10:36.000 --> 00:10:40.679 going to be focusing on performance, they concluded, and again 182 00:10:40.840 --> 00:10:44.000 rightfully so in my opinion, that it has to be 183 00:10:44.120 --> 00:10:49.000 metrics that are valid that actually indicate something real about 184 00:10:49.000 --> 00:10:51.840 the performance of a website, but it also can't be 185 00:10:52.039 --> 00:10:55.080 something It can't they can't have too many metrics. So 186 00:10:55.159 --> 00:10:57.039 you know, there are a lot of aspects of web 187 00:10:57.039 --> 00:11:00.000 performance that you can measure, but they're not going to 188 00:11:00.279 --> 00:11:04.200 focus on everything all at once. Instead, they're going to 189 00:11:04.279 --> 00:11:07.639 focus on a particular subset of things what they would 190 00:11:07.720 --> 00:11:11.360 consider to be the most important things. Because the vast 191 00:11:11.399 --> 00:11:16.159 majority of web developers and designers and SEO people, et 192 00:11:16.240 --> 00:11:20.480 cetera that are out there are not performance experts, don't 193 00:11:20.519 --> 00:11:24.000 want to be, and shouldn't be, And if you came 194 00:11:24.120 --> 00:11:27.039 at them with something like twenty different metrics that they 195 00:11:27.120 --> 00:11:31.519 need to now analyze and measure and analyze and optimize, 196 00:11:31.960 --> 00:11:34.840 it's just not going to happen. So what Google did 197 00:11:34.960 --> 00:11:38.600 essentially is like they did this two step process. First 198 00:11:38.639 --> 00:11:40.840 of all, they came up with something that which they 199 00:11:40.879 --> 00:11:48.080 called web vitals, which were a larger set of performance metrics. 200 00:11:48.600 --> 00:11:52.840 And then out of these they distilled three metrics which 201 00:11:52.879 --> 00:11:57.120 they refer to as core web vitals, which are the 202 00:11:57.159 --> 00:12:00.519 ones that they're going to focus on or now are 203 00:12:00.519 --> 00:12:04.200 at present. And what they also said is that every 204 00:12:04.360 --> 00:12:07.759 year they're going to look at these three core web 205 00:12:07.840 --> 00:12:11.120 vitals see if they're still the ones that you need 206 00:12:11.200 --> 00:12:16.080 to focus on and potentially modify them, evaluate them, maybe 207 00:12:16.080 --> 00:12:19.960 even replace them with other metrics if they see a need. 208 00:12:20.639 --> 00:12:24.639 So so far, they've announced the set of three metrics 209 00:12:24.679 --> 00:12:27.679 back in twenty in the beginning of twenty twenty, I think, 210 00:12:28.240 --> 00:12:30.639 and so far they haven't changed them, so for now 211 00:12:30.679 --> 00:12:33.879 at least, they're sticking with it. And these three core 212 00:12:34.519 --> 00:12:38.799 web vital metrics are LCP or largest Content for paint, 213 00:12:39.279 --> 00:12:43.440 FID which stands for first input delay, and CLS which 214 00:12:43.480 --> 00:12:47.399 stands for commulative layout shift. And these are the ones 215 00:12:47.879 --> 00:12:51.200 that they're focusing on, and these are the ones that 216 00:12:51.240 --> 00:12:56.200 they're now starting to use as a ranking signal into 217 00:12:56.279 --> 00:13:01.320 Google Search. Which means that the the values that get 218 00:13:01.440 --> 00:13:07.000 measured for your website for these metrics can impact the 219 00:13:07.120 --> 00:13:10.519 ranking of your site, at least in mobile searches. 220 00:13:10.879 --> 00:13:14.000 So you kind of made this point before, Dan, and 221 00:13:14.039 --> 00:13:16.159 I'm a little curious to see how this goes. But 222 00:13:16.639 --> 00:13:20.039 you basically said, not all Internet connections are created equal, 223 00:13:20.399 --> 00:13:23.200 and not all devices are created equal either, And so 224 00:13:23.279 --> 00:13:27.759 I'm wondering exactly how do you measure these numbers? Right, 225 00:13:28.200 --> 00:13:31.600 because it looks like it's I pulled up one website 226 00:13:31.639 --> 00:13:33.840 where they kind of explained what these three measures are 227 00:13:34.759 --> 00:13:37.240 and it's, hey, ask to be two point five seconds 228 00:13:37.320 --> 00:13:39.600 or four seconds or you know, one hundred milliseconds, three 229 00:13:39.639 --> 00:13:43.279 hundred milliseconds kind of thing. They've got these benchmarks. So 230 00:13:43.519 --> 00:13:45.240 is it just when the bot hits it? 231 00:13:45.519 --> 00:13:49.320 Or that's an excellent question. A lot of people initially 232 00:13:49.360 --> 00:13:51.799 assume that it's going to be the Google bot or 233 00:13:51.840 --> 00:13:56.559 something that Google is going to hit your website measure 234 00:13:56.720 --> 00:13:59.360 how long it takes for the bot to do whatever, 235 00:13:59.840 --> 00:14:02.120 and those are the numbers that they're going to use, 236 00:14:02.360 --> 00:14:06.399 and that's totally not the case. People were also looking 237 00:14:06.639 --> 00:14:10.039 at measurement tools that Google put out there, like a 238 00:14:10.080 --> 00:14:13.879 Google Lighthouse and Google based with Insights and thought, hey, 239 00:14:14.440 --> 00:14:17.320 they're probably going to be using Lighthouse to measure your 240 00:14:17.360 --> 00:14:21.200 website and use that number. Well, again, that's totally not 241 00:14:21.240 --> 00:14:24.799 the case. So I mentioned we had Rick VISCOMI on 242 00:14:24.840 --> 00:14:30.039 a previous episode, and Rick is the person at Google 243 00:14:30.159 --> 00:14:36.120 who manages a project called CRUX, which stands for Chrome 244 00:14:36.200 --> 00:14:40.320 User Experience and this and there is a reminder of 245 00:14:40.320 --> 00:14:43.720 what this thing is. It turns out that when you 246 00:14:43.879 --> 00:14:47.000 install Chrome on your device, or if it comes pre 247 00:14:47.080 --> 00:14:53.519 installed unless you opt out, then Chrome gathers data about 248 00:14:53.559 --> 00:14:56.559 all the websurfing that you're doing. To do people still 249 00:14:56.679 --> 00:14:59.279 use the term websurfing. I don't know all the websites 250 00:14:59.320 --> 00:15:03.240 if you visit all your web sessions, Google collects information 251 00:15:03.320 --> 00:15:07.840 about that anonymous of course, and it gets sent up 252 00:15:07.919 --> 00:15:12.200 to the mothership. So it gets collected in this huge 253 00:15:12.279 --> 00:15:18.440 Google database, and that includes performance information. So they measure 254 00:15:19.000 --> 00:15:23.519 your Chrome measures the time that it takes for your 255 00:15:23.559 --> 00:15:27.879 website to load effectively, and that measurement or those measurements 256 00:15:27.879 --> 00:15:30.919 actually because it's more than one number, gets sent back 257 00:15:30.960 --> 00:15:35.399 to Google and gets put into this database called CRUX. Now, 258 00:15:35.639 --> 00:15:42.080 Google then uses this information as the input as an 259 00:15:42.240 --> 00:15:47.759 input more accurately to their Google ranking algorithm. So the 260 00:15:47.799 --> 00:15:51.399 Google ranking algorithm receives a ton of signals from a 261 00:15:51.399 --> 00:15:54.480 lot of different sources, and the various analysis that they 262 00:15:54.519 --> 00:15:57.399 perform on a website they like look at things like 263 00:15:57.639 --> 00:16:02.639 the quality of the content, the BACKLNK, the authority, et cetera. Well, 264 00:16:02.759 --> 00:16:08.080 now they have another ranking signal which incorporates the performance 265 00:16:08.240 --> 00:16:12.360 data that they get from this Crux database, which means 266 00:16:12.639 --> 00:16:17.120 ultimately that the number that they use or the numbers 267 00:16:17.200 --> 00:16:20.000 that they use in order to determine whether your website 268 00:16:20.080 --> 00:16:24.240 has good performance or not is based on actually the 269 00:16:24.279 --> 00:16:28.600 actual experience of real users who are using Google Chrome 270 00:16:28.759 --> 00:16:32.679 as their browser. Unfortunately, they're not looking at people who 271 00:16:32.679 --> 00:16:36.879 are using other browsers, so Safari users, for example, have 272 00:16:37.320 --> 00:16:43.120 zero impact on this ranking signal. Likewise, Firefox users or 273 00:16:43.159 --> 00:16:46.799 even Edge users, even though Edge is using the same 274 00:16:47.080 --> 00:16:52.080 chromium engine as Chrome, because it's a Chrome thing, it's 275 00:16:52.120 --> 00:16:53.320 not a Chromium thing. 276 00:16:53.440 --> 00:16:54.279 You forgot Brave. 277 00:16:54.600 --> 00:16:59.879 Brave certainly does not send data to the Google servers. 278 00:17:01.679 --> 00:17:04.599 I think Brad and I would like become apoplectic if 279 00:17:04.640 --> 00:17:08.519 it happened. I know right now, I think they're introducing 280 00:17:08.559 --> 00:17:10.359 their own search engine even so. 281 00:17:10.839 --> 00:17:15.440 And it works remarkably well. Actually, like I have not 282 00:17:15.599 --> 00:17:19.720 even I think that the Brave search is getting me 283 00:17:19.880 --> 00:17:22.119 really good results for the type of searches that I do, 284 00:17:22.440 --> 00:17:23.440 which I'm surprised by. 285 00:17:23.559 --> 00:17:26.400 I think that is it something that they developed or 286 00:17:26.440 --> 00:17:29.480 I think they bought some company or merged with some company. 287 00:17:29.519 --> 00:17:32.680 I think. I'm not sure. Anyway, it's kind of off topic. 288 00:17:33.000 --> 00:17:35.799 I don't know. Yeah, probably we should probably bring somebody 289 00:17:35.880 --> 00:17:38.759 from Brave just to talk about that. It does sound 290 00:17:38.799 --> 00:17:42.640 like an interesting topic. But anyway, I digress. So, as 291 00:17:42.680 --> 00:17:47.000 I mentioned, there are these three main metrics which are 292 00:17:47.039 --> 00:17:51.279 the core web vitals. The first one I mentioned is LCP, 293 00:17:51.599 --> 00:17:55.519 which is largest content for paint. It measures the time 294 00:17:55.920 --> 00:18:00.720 from the start of the session until when that the 295 00:18:00.839 --> 00:18:07.240 biggest content element within the initial viewport was rendered. Usually 296 00:18:07.279 --> 00:18:11.519 that would be an image, but it might also be text. Interestingly, 297 00:18:11.759 --> 00:18:18.119 svgs don't count, so what why? My guess is that 298 00:18:18.319 --> 00:18:21.279 svgs would be too easy to fake. Here's the thing 299 00:18:21.519 --> 00:18:24.720 about co web vitals that Google needs to take into account. 300 00:18:25.240 --> 00:18:27.960 On the one hand, there are supposed to be these 301 00:18:28.039 --> 00:18:31.920 metrics that putting Google aside, there are supposed to be 302 00:18:31.960 --> 00:18:35.759 these metrics that if you optimize, if you improve, you 303 00:18:35.839 --> 00:18:39.960 will get a better website. I mean, getting good performance 304 00:18:40.079 --> 00:18:42.279 is not just about the rank. Like I said, the 305 00:18:42.359 --> 00:18:45.400 rank is kind of the whip. Getting good performance is 306 00:18:45.440 --> 00:18:48.960 also about the user experience. If you have good performance, 307 00:18:49.000 --> 00:18:52.240 you'll have better engagements, you'll have a lower bounce rate. 308 00:18:52.839 --> 00:18:56.079 Those are the things that should really be of interest 309 00:18:56.160 --> 00:18:58.960 to a site owner if people If you have an 310 00:18:58.960 --> 00:19:01.839 online store, even if people find it but then it 311 00:19:01.960 --> 00:19:05.240 loads so slowly that they just leave without buying everything, 312 00:19:05.279 --> 00:19:08.200 that what have you gained? You want people to engage 313 00:19:08.240 --> 00:19:13.400 with your content, and that, amongst other things, requires good performance. 314 00:19:13.880 --> 00:19:18.240 So in an ideal world, the co web vitals what 315 00:19:18.359 --> 00:19:21.319 you would just think about, the youth, the visitor experience. 316 00:19:21.559 --> 00:19:25.720 But once Google may has made them a ranking signal, 317 00:19:26.200 --> 00:19:30.000 they also need to take into account that people will 318 00:19:30.079 --> 00:19:34.799 do bad things in order to improve their rank. It's 319 00:19:34.880 --> 00:19:38.599 it's unfortunate, but it's well known that it happens. So 320 00:19:39.119 --> 00:19:43.039 think about me like putting this I don't know, an 321 00:19:43.160 --> 00:19:47.839 SBG box around my entire viewport just to create this 322 00:19:47.920 --> 00:19:51.279 big visual element, because it's as big as the entire viewport, 323 00:19:51.480 --> 00:19:55.319 but it's effectively empty. It's like this one line SVG 324 00:19:55.920 --> 00:19:58.440 and it's embedded into the HTML, so it will be 325 00:19:58.519 --> 00:20:01.640 like the first thing to render, and I would get 326 00:20:01.680 --> 00:20:05.519 a really great LCP score even though I've literally done 327 00:20:05.640 --> 00:20:10.960 nothing to actually improve the actual user experience. Now I'm 328 00:20:10.960 --> 00:20:15.359 not saying that this is the reason why Google has 329 00:20:15.359 --> 00:20:18.079 done it, but that's my guess. Or let's put it 330 00:20:18.119 --> 00:20:21.519 this way. They have another metric that's a web vital, 331 00:20:21.599 --> 00:20:24.960 but not a core web vital, which is first content 332 00:20:25.000 --> 00:20:29.119 for paint, which measures when the first element of content 333 00:20:29.240 --> 00:20:33.200 is rendered on the page, and that one does take 334 00:20:33.319 --> 00:20:36.559 SVG into account. So it's interesting that for the first 335 00:20:36.559 --> 00:20:39.440 contentful paint they do take svgs into account, but for 336 00:20:39.480 --> 00:20:42.799 the largest content for paint they actually don't take svgs 337 00:20:42.839 --> 00:20:45.640 into account. Okay, it is what it is. So an 338 00:20:45.799 --> 00:20:50.799 LCP would be either the biggest image or the biggest 339 00:20:51.119 --> 00:20:54.039 piece of text, whichever is the bigger one between them. 340 00:20:54.039 --> 00:20:57.079 In the case of text, it's the rounding is the 341 00:20:57.079 --> 00:20:59.480 box that contains the text, So it would be let's say, 342 00:20:59.440 --> 00:21:02.880 if the text, let's say is inside of div, it 343 00:21:02.920 --> 00:21:07.440 would be the rectangle of that div, the closing rectangle 344 00:21:07.440 --> 00:21:07.960 of that div. 345 00:21:08.160 --> 00:21:10.440 All right, So when you say largest, you're saying by 346 00:21:10.480 --> 00:21:12.400 real estate on my page. 347 00:21:12.599 --> 00:21:16.119 Yes, although in the case of images, they also like 348 00:21:16.359 --> 00:21:21.240 factor in the image quality. So if you've got a 349 00:21:21.319 --> 00:21:25.440 low res image that you then stretch to cover a 350 00:21:25.519 --> 00:21:30.720 large area, they will kind of factor it down to 351 00:21:30.839 --> 00:21:34.759 account for the fact that it's low res. Right. Interesting anyway, 352 00:21:35.359 --> 00:21:38.640 they're also playing with these metrics. They're trying to make 353 00:21:38.680 --> 00:21:42.200 them more useful. Some people are kind of annoyed by 354 00:21:42.240 --> 00:21:46.279 it because people are working hard on optimizing these metrics, 355 00:21:46.599 --> 00:21:49.599 and then Google comes along and modifies how they actually 356 00:21:49.640 --> 00:21:54.920 measure one of the metrics that can be annoying or confusing. So, 357 00:21:55.039 --> 00:21:59.000 for example, in Chrome eighty eight, they modified the LCP 358 00:21:59.200 --> 00:22:04.160 metric to ignore full full viewpoint images, so if an 359 00:22:04.200 --> 00:22:08.039 image covered the entire viewport, they would actually ignore it. 360 00:22:08.640 --> 00:22:12.160 And the motivation was that such an image is probably 361 00:22:12.200 --> 00:22:17.680 a background image and consequently it's not like the main 362 00:22:18.319 --> 00:22:22.480 content of the page, and therefore they decided to ignore it. 363 00:22:22.839 --> 00:22:26.680 By the way, the whole reason for picking largest contentful 364 00:22:26.720 --> 00:22:31.720 paint is that they kind of ran tests. They sat people, 365 00:22:31.759 --> 00:22:33.839 at least that's what they told me. They sat people 366 00:22:33.880 --> 00:22:37.799 in front of computers, had them load website and like 367 00:22:37.920 --> 00:22:41.240 click a button when they thought the PA the site 368 00:22:41.319 --> 00:22:46.119 load was loaded and finished loaded, And what they found 369 00:22:46.599 --> 00:22:49.240 is that in most cases, the time, the point in 370 00:22:49.279 --> 00:22:53.160 time where the people clicked the button correlated to when 371 00:22:53.200 --> 00:22:57.880 the largest piece of content was rendered in the browser window. 372 00:22:58.240 --> 00:23:01.400 So that's where this metric came from. Now, a big 373 00:23:01.519 --> 00:23:06.720 problem with LCP, though, is that you never know unless 374 00:23:07.039 --> 00:23:10.160 the content covers the entire viewport, in which case, like 375 00:23:10.200 --> 00:23:13.519 I said, for images, it's actually ignored. You never know 376 00:23:13.880 --> 00:23:17.240 if a bigger piece of content is not going to 377 00:23:17.559 --> 00:23:21.079 occur like a little bit later. So think about it. 378 00:23:21.240 --> 00:23:25.880 Let's say the page is loading, it draws something, it's 379 00:23:26.039 --> 00:23:29.200 that's the largest contentful paint until this point in time, 380 00:23:29.759 --> 00:23:33.319 but then something bigger might be drawn a second later, 381 00:23:33.680 --> 00:23:37.160 which which it then becomes the largest contentful paine. So 382 00:23:37.200 --> 00:23:40.680 the question is kind of when do you stop? And 383 00:23:40.680 --> 00:23:45.519 and that's one of the problematic measure things about this measurement. 384 00:23:46.200 --> 00:23:50.759 So they stop when the user interacts with the page. 385 00:23:51.200 --> 00:23:54.279 So if the user scrolls or clicks, they say, okay, 386 00:23:54.680 --> 00:23:56.920 if the user does something with the page, it means 387 00:23:56.920 --> 00:23:59.759 that from the users with the visitor's perspective, the page 388 00:23:59.759 --> 00:24:03.680 is not so you know, no, no point in waiting 389 00:24:03.720 --> 00:24:05.920 for more stuff. But that's kind of one of the 390 00:24:06.000 --> 00:24:09.160 problems with with LCP, and and that's one of the 391 00:24:09.200 --> 00:24:12.920 reasons why when it's measured in lap conditions, like by 392 00:24:12.960 --> 00:24:16.640 a tool like Lighthouse, you might get really different results 393 00:24:16.920 --> 00:24:20.039 and what you might get in the field because it 394 00:24:20.160 --> 00:24:23.119 might be stopping at a different point, And that's a 395 00:24:23.160 --> 00:24:25.640 problem with it. There are other issues with it as well, 396 00:24:25.680 --> 00:24:27.000 but those are like the main ones. 397 00:24:27.359 --> 00:24:30.200 I guess My question here is is, let's say that 398 00:24:30.279 --> 00:24:32.400 I have a content website I don't know that has 399 00:24:32.480 --> 00:24:36.519 podcasts on it maybe, and I care about my Google ranking, 400 00:24:36.599 --> 00:24:38.920 and so I want to improve this. How do I 401 00:24:39.119 --> 00:24:42.920