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We're promited to 21 00:00:58.320 --> 00:00:59.880 my eighteen plus terms and conditioned to plus what. 22 00:01:07.879 --> 00:01:11.319 You are now listening to True Murder The most shocking 23 00:01:11.400 --> 00:01:14.439 killers in true crime history and the authors that have 24 00:01:14.519 --> 00:01:21.799 written about them Gasey Bundy, Dahmer, The Nightstalker BTK. Every 25 00:01:21.840 --> 00:01:25.519 week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and 26 00:01:25.640 --> 00:01:29.799 infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with your 27 00:01:29.840 --> 00:01:45.719 host journalist and author Dan Zufanski, Good Evening. Over thirteen 28 00:01:45.840 --> 00:01:50.159 months in nineteen seventy six seventy seven, four children were 29 00:01:50.159 --> 00:01:53.400 abducted in the Detroit suburbs, each of them held for 30 00:01:53.519 --> 00:01:56.040 days before their still warm bodies were dumped in the 31 00:01:56.079 --> 00:02:02.000 snow near public roadsides. The Oakland County child murders spawned 32 00:02:02.000 --> 00:02:08.439 panic across southeast Michigan, triggering the most extensive manhunt in 33 00:02:08.599 --> 00:02:12.240 US history. Yet after less than two years, the task 34 00:02:12.280 --> 00:02:14.840 force created to find the killer was shut down without 35 00:02:14.919 --> 00:02:18.639 naming a suspect. The case went cold for more than 36 00:02:18.680 --> 00:02:22.599 thirty years until a chance discovery by one victim's family 37 00:02:22.680 --> 00:02:26.039 pointed to the son of a wealthy General Motors executive. 38 00:02:26.719 --> 00:02:30.680 Christopher Bryan Bush, a four time convicted pedophile, was freed 39 00:02:30.759 --> 00:02:35.960 weeks before the fourth child disappeared. Veteran Detroit News reporter 40 00:02:36.120 --> 00:02:40.120 Marnie rich Keenan takes the reader inside the investigation of 41 00:02:40.159 --> 00:02:43.599 the still unsolved murders, seen through the eyes of the 42 00:02:43.680 --> 00:02:46.639 lead detective in the case and the family who cracked 43 00:02:46.680 --> 00:02:50.400 it open, revealing evidence of a decade's long cover up 44 00:02:50.840 --> 00:02:55.159 of malfeasance and obstruction that averted justice for the victims. 45 00:02:56.240 --> 00:02:58.360 The book they were featuring the Seising is the Snow 46 00:02:58.479 --> 00:03:04.039 Killings Inside the Oakland County Killer Investigation, with my special guest, 47 00:03:04.080 --> 00:03:07.919 journalist and author, Marnie rich Keenan. Welcome to the program, 48 00:03:07.960 --> 00:03:11.080 and thank you very much for this interview. Marnie rich Keenan, 49 00:03:12.879 --> 00:03:16.319 Thank you, Dan, thank you so much for joining me. 50 00:03:16.439 --> 00:03:22.800 This is an extraordinary book and an incredible case and 51 00:03:23.120 --> 00:03:28.080 incredibly disturbing. Let's get right to this. Give us your 52 00:03:28.159 --> 00:03:32.199 background and how you came to this story, when you 53 00:03:32.280 --> 00:03:34.879 became involved. Give us the particulars. 54 00:03:35.400 --> 00:03:41.120 Sure. I'm a journalist. I've worked for newspapers and magazines 55 00:03:42.680 --> 00:03:48.560 for several decades. The last twenty six years of my career, 56 00:03:48.599 --> 00:03:52.759 I was a reporter and columnist for the Detroit News. 57 00:03:53.879 --> 00:03:57.240 I grew up here in Oakland County, so I knew 58 00:03:57.319 --> 00:04:04.719 the crimes well and anybody who lived here during that 59 00:04:04.960 --> 00:04:09.639 time was deeply affected and had never forgotten it. The 60 00:04:09.800 --> 00:04:17.560 entire Metro Detroit area had been terrorized, and specifically Opening County, 61 00:04:17.600 --> 00:04:21.680 which is just northwest of the city. I think it 62 00:04:21.800 --> 00:04:29.399 had about a million residents at the time, was in 63 00:04:29.519 --> 00:04:34.199 a you know, a state of full panic. And so 64 00:04:34.319 --> 00:04:39.319 that you know, Opening County has long been ranked among 65 00:04:39.600 --> 00:04:42.920 the top five or ten affluent counties in the nation. 66 00:04:43.160 --> 00:04:47.639 It was it was home to auto barns and wealthy 67 00:04:47.800 --> 00:04:51.240 entrepreneurs who had built their summer homes and estate cottages here. 68 00:04:51.319 --> 00:04:56.279 So when these crimes occurred, families, you know, enjoyed nice 69 00:04:56.319 --> 00:05:01.759 neighborhoods and nationally ranked school and for something like this 70 00:05:01.839 --> 00:05:07.720 to happen was almost inconceivable, and in hindsight, many of 71 00:05:07.759 --> 00:05:14.279 us will agree that we were both naive and in denial. Really, 72 00:05:17.720 --> 00:05:21.639 I came to the case because I had interviewed Barry 73 00:05:21.759 --> 00:05:24.639 King over the years I was a columnist and interviewed 74 00:05:24.720 --> 00:05:28.600 him on anniversaries of the crimes. Of course, Barry King 75 00:05:28.839 --> 00:05:34.680 was the father of the fourth victim, and one night 76 00:05:34.680 --> 00:05:37.920 in October he called me and my editor to his 77 00:05:38.279 --> 00:05:43.519 to his house and we were there for three hours 78 00:05:43.879 --> 00:05:52.839 and He started the conversation by saying, the story I'm 79 00:05:52.879 --> 00:05:56.920 about to tell you started in a big white house 80 00:05:57.279 --> 00:06:01.920 right across the street. And when he ended the interview, 81 00:06:02.040 --> 00:06:06.600 he said, you know my family and I think we 82 00:06:06.720 --> 00:06:12.000 know who killed. And that of course was the story 83 00:06:12.079 --> 00:06:16.959 of Tech Coffee and Chris Bush. But maybe I should 84 00:06:17.319 --> 00:06:23.199 I should provide you with an introduction of the crimes. 85 00:06:24.279 --> 00:06:27.600 Well, you also do that in the book. You start 86 00:06:27.639 --> 00:06:30.720 off as January fifteenth, nineteen seventy six, but you say 87 00:06:31.040 --> 00:06:33.879 the story must begin a full month before the first 88 00:06:34.000 --> 00:06:38.279 victim was snatched. So in January fifteenth, this story starts 89 00:06:38.279 --> 00:06:42.240 with Cynthia Cadeou, sixteen year old high school student, tell 90 00:06:42.319 --> 00:06:44.560 us a little bit more about this and why this 91 00:06:44.920 --> 00:06:49.639 is necessary to know before we talk about the four 92 00:06:49.720 --> 00:06:53.319 murders that constitute the Oakland County child killings. 93 00:06:54.959 --> 00:06:59.720 Well, in this in the same time as our four 94 00:06:59.800 --> 00:07:03.600 keykids went missing, there were uh three young women. They 95 00:07:03.600 --> 00:07:08.319 were older, they were they were teenagers who were also 96 00:07:09.120 --> 00:07:13.000 wound up missing and and their bodies soon discovered afterwards. 97 00:07:13.439 --> 00:07:22.920 So UH this only in increased the fear and panic 98 00:07:23.839 --> 00:07:30.600 in the area. It wasn't too long before uh police 99 00:07:31.360 --> 00:07:36.680 decided that these three murders of these three girls were 100 00:07:36.680 --> 00:07:43.000 not related to our four Oakland County child killing kids 101 00:07:43.040 --> 00:07:46.399 because they were able to solve them quite readily, and 102 00:07:46.519 --> 00:07:52.600 because they were older and their uh kidnappings in and 103 00:07:53.720 --> 00:07:58.879 man of death didn't fit the pattern that our ford did. Nonetheless, 104 00:08:01.360 --> 00:08:04.879 there was a total of seven kids who went missing 105 00:08:05.000 --> 00:08:11.079 to begin with, and that only heightened the fear. 106 00:08:13.319 --> 00:08:17.360 So let's go to February fifteenth, nineteen seventy six and 107 00:08:17.800 --> 00:08:21.879 Mark Douglas Stebbens, which is twelve years old. I'll tell 108 00:08:21.920 --> 00:08:23.480 us a little bit about what happens. 109 00:08:23.839 --> 00:08:32.240 So around lunchtime, Mark Stebbins was at the American Legion 110 00:08:32.279 --> 00:08:36.039 Hall in Ferndale with his mother and his older brother, 111 00:08:36.240 --> 00:08:40.519 and there was a pool tournament there. His mother worked there, 112 00:08:40.840 --> 00:08:44.639 and he wanted to go home to watch a movie 113 00:08:44.639 --> 00:08:47.440 on TV. And so he said goodbye to his mother 114 00:08:47.519 --> 00:08:50.840 and his brother and he started to walk the few 115 00:08:50.879 --> 00:08:54.120 blocks home on the sidewalk, but he never arrived home. 116 00:08:56.519 --> 00:09:00.639 His body was found four days later lying against the 117 00:09:01.000 --> 00:09:05.600 partition wall in a neighborhood shopping plaza, a strip mall 118 00:09:07.799 --> 00:09:15.600 in the nearby town of Southfield. And then this was 119 00:09:15.759 --> 00:09:22.080 followed by three days after Christmas, Jill Robinson, who was 120 00:09:22.120 --> 00:09:26.159 twelve years old, close to dinner time, had left her 121 00:09:26.200 --> 00:09:30.200 mom's house in Royal Oak She'd had a bit of 122 00:09:30.240 --> 00:09:35.919 a disagreement with her mom over making dinner. She left 123 00:09:36.039 --> 00:09:39.399 her mom's house in Royal Oaks. Her parents were divorced, 124 00:09:40.000 --> 00:09:44.120 and she jumped on her bike, presumably to ride to 125 00:09:44.159 --> 00:09:51.039 her father's house in nearby Birmingham, but she too disappeared. 126 00:09:53.360 --> 00:09:59.960 Four days later, the day after Christmas, Jill's body was 127 00:10:00.320 --> 00:10:06.279 spotted by a passing motorist along I seventy five in 128 00:10:06.519 --> 00:10:09.600 the pull off lane. I guess you would call it 129 00:10:09.720 --> 00:10:13.080 near an exit and she had been shot in the face. 130 00:10:17.360 --> 00:10:22.840 Only a week later, as it turns out, on January tewod, 131 00:10:24.080 --> 00:10:28.799 the day after New Year's Day, Christine Helleck, who was 132 00:10:28.840 --> 00:10:33.039 ten years old, to her home in Berkeley at about 133 00:10:33.039 --> 00:10:36.679 three in the afternoon. She wanted to walk up to 134 00:10:36.759 --> 00:10:40.000 the nearby seven to eleven store to buy a teen 135 00:10:40.200 --> 00:10:48.440 magazine for Christmas. She'd been given an album by one 136 00:10:48.480 --> 00:10:52.879 of her idols, Donnie and Marie Osmon, and his teen 137 00:10:52.960 --> 00:10:57.960 magazine that she was after had Donnie and Marie Osmon 138 00:10:58.080 --> 00:11:02.960 on the cover, and the clerk remembered you know, selling 139 00:11:03.000 --> 00:11:07.480 her a magazine, and Christine was seen walking home along 140 00:11:07.679 --> 00:11:16.159 time twelve mile road, but then she vanished. It seems 141 00:11:16.200 --> 00:11:19.440 hard to think of this, but Christine was gone the 142 00:11:19.480 --> 00:11:28.159 longest she was gone nineteen days. Grutable, Yeah, and you 143 00:11:28.200 --> 00:11:34.799 know it's her mother. Deborah Jarvis said to me that 144 00:11:35.120 --> 00:11:40.399 the reason she thinks Christine was kept so long was 145 00:11:40.480 --> 00:11:45.240 because Christine was so delightful and so sweet to be around. 146 00:11:46.799 --> 00:11:51.159 In any event, Christine was gone nineteen days. And on 147 00:11:51.440 --> 00:11:58.919 January second, the day after New Year's Day, a mailman 148 00:11:59.840 --> 00:12:06.759 was delivering mail to in a residential area in nearby 149 00:12:06.840 --> 00:12:13.159 Franklin when he saw something blue in the snow bank, 150 00:12:13.919 --> 00:12:19.759 and it turned out to be Christine's jacket. Of course, 151 00:12:19.799 --> 00:12:26.360 after Christine, law enforcement knew they had child serial killer 152 00:12:26.440 --> 00:12:37.080 on their hands. Christine's parents appealed to their captor on TV. 153 00:12:40.279 --> 00:12:48.120 They organized citizens searches on foot CEBE radio club members. 154 00:12:48.159 --> 00:12:50.480 I don't know if people were even know now with 155 00:12:50.639 --> 00:12:54.759 CB radios are, but they joined in the effort and 156 00:12:55.159 --> 00:12:59.919 the case was all over newspapers and TV. And that's 157 00:13:00.080 --> 00:13:04.240 Berts warned that if the maniac was not you know, apprehended, 158 00:13:06.600 --> 00:13:11.759 he would surely strike again. And so now, as I said, 159 00:13:11.799 --> 00:13:14.440 police knew they had a serial killer on their hands. 160 00:13:15.279 --> 00:13:22.639 So Robert Robertson, who was then commander of the Criminal 161 00:13:23.279 --> 00:13:28.840 Investigative Division of the Michigan State Police, had phoned several 162 00:13:29.879 --> 00:13:34.679 police chiefs from jurisdictions where you know, either the kids 163 00:13:34.679 --> 00:13:38.360 were snatched or where their bodies had been found, and 164 00:13:38.399 --> 00:13:41.879 he pulled them all together in an auditorium and that 165 00:13:42.200 --> 00:13:50.200 was meeting, the meeting where they uh uh became known 166 00:13:50.200 --> 00:13:54.399 as where they formed the Olkon County Child Killings Passforce. 167 00:13:56.399 --> 00:14:01.120 Okay, so they have they have the three children, and 168 00:14:01.159 --> 00:14:06.440 they find evidence of sexual assault. They have actual sperm 169 00:14:06.480 --> 00:14:11.840 found in the vagina and rectum. They also have you 170 00:14:11.879 --> 00:14:16.639 have you talked about Michigan State Police Lieutenant Robert Robertson 171 00:14:17.159 --> 00:14:23.759 organizing other police from other jurisdictions and Oakland County as well. 172 00:14:25.000 --> 00:14:27.240 You also say that the effort that they did at 173 00:14:27.240 --> 00:14:31.720 that time, including Detective Sergeant Increase, which was of the 174 00:14:31.799 --> 00:14:34.320 day to day operations he was in charge of. What 175 00:14:34.399 --> 00:14:36.559 are some of the things that they did to try 176 00:14:36.600 --> 00:14:42.320 to search for these potential offenders. 177 00:14:42.320 --> 00:14:47.279 Well, they were they did an amazing amount of things 178 00:14:47.559 --> 00:14:52.720 that they This is of course before Tim went missing, 179 00:14:52.919 --> 00:15:02.279 but they shed their postal carriers on come all together, 180 00:15:02.360 --> 00:15:07.600 and they developed a profile of the suspect and delivered 181 00:15:07.639 --> 00:15:12.759 that profile to anybody and everybody. The one of the 182 00:15:12.799 --> 00:15:22.320 problems was since none of the kids, there was no witness. 183 00:15:23.000 --> 00:15:26.879 Nobody had heard any screams from these abductions, nobody had 184 00:15:26.919 --> 00:15:32.440 seen any kid forced into a car. And as a result, 185 00:15:32.720 --> 00:15:39.000 everybody became The police thought the children must have gone 186 00:15:39.000 --> 00:15:44.399 with their captor willingly, they must have have recognized who 187 00:15:44.440 --> 00:15:49.480 it was. And as a result, you know, everybody became suspect. 188 00:15:51.279 --> 00:16:00.840 Members of the clergy, teachers, coaches, They went into schools 189 00:16:00.879 --> 00:16:09.840 and UH police officers had teachers quiz children to see 190 00:16:09.879 --> 00:16:13.279 if there was anything, you know, untoward going on in 191 00:16:13.320 --> 00:16:18.480 the kids' lives that they wouldn't necessarily bring up to 192 00:16:18.480 --> 00:16:26.159 to their folks. Some kids were even fingerprinted. It was 193 00:16:26.200 --> 00:16:32.120 a massive, massive search. But as one and they and 194 00:16:32.360 --> 00:16:37.480 tips came in and they they started UH they I 195 00:16:37.519 --> 00:16:42.120 think they pulled the records on all the known UH 196 00:16:42.360 --> 00:16:46.679 sexual offenders at the time, and but every one of 197 00:16:46.720 --> 00:16:56.080 them had had alibis. And then a couple of months 198 00:16:56.360 --> 00:17:01.840 months passed after Christine and and and then Tim King 199 00:17:05.039 --> 00:17:11.079 on March sixteenth, nineteen seventy seven, Tim, who was the 200 00:17:11.200 --> 00:17:16.200 youngest of marrying and Barry King's four children. He was 201 00:17:16.240 --> 00:17:22.799 eleven years old and he bowed thirty cents from his 202 00:17:22.880 --> 00:17:27.279 older sister Kathy to walk two blocks up to a 203 00:17:27.359 --> 00:17:32.119 nearby pharmacy at drugstore called the Hunter Maple Pharmacy to 204 00:17:32.119 --> 00:17:37.680 buy a candy bar. And you know, of course Tim 205 00:17:37.680 --> 00:17:41.400 had been wild schooled in stranger danger. Everybody knew what 206 00:17:42.759 --> 00:17:52.559 was going on and it but Tim, I should say, 207 00:17:52.640 --> 00:17:55.599 Tim had also been seeing his folks for a long 208 00:17:55.680 --> 00:18:00.400 time to be able to stay home long. He was eleven, 209 00:17:59.880 --> 00:18:06.640 and Kathy really thought it would be fine for him 210 00:18:06.799 --> 00:18:10.920 to you know, walk the two blocks up to about 211 00:18:10.920 --> 00:18:14.799 a candy bar, so she loaned in the thirty cents. 212 00:18:14.920 --> 00:18:20.039 It was, I think a Wednesday night. His parents had 213 00:18:20.079 --> 00:18:23.680 gone out to dinner at a nearby restaurant which was 214 00:18:24.640 --> 00:18:32.039 actually kitty corner from where Tim would be abducted. Barry, 215 00:18:32.119 --> 00:18:38.279 who was a well respected attorney, and his wife Marian, 216 00:18:38.480 --> 00:18:43.720 were going to have a will signing with a client 217 00:18:43.799 --> 00:18:47.200 couple and then have dinner. Tim's brother Chris, who had 218 00:18:47.279 --> 00:18:51.640 just turned sixteen, was babysitting and Mark his other brother 219 00:18:51.880 --> 00:18:56.160 was at a play practice at middle school and Kathy 220 00:18:56.279 --> 00:19:01.799 was getting ready to go to see Jerry Lewis do 221 00:19:01.880 --> 00:19:10.400 a stand up routine at a hotel. So Kathy told him, 222 00:19:10.799 --> 00:19:13.240 you know, she'd leave the front door locked for him 223 00:19:13.279 --> 00:19:15.720 to be able to return, and she told him to 224 00:19:15.759 --> 00:19:20.839 be very careful crossing Adams Road. And Tim left it 225 00:19:20.920 --> 00:19:32.279 about seven I think in Cathulus. Fifteen minutes later, Marian 226 00:19:32.359 --> 00:19:37.000 and Marian were arrived home at nine pm. They were 227 00:19:37.039 --> 00:19:40.039 followed by Mark and Chris, and Tim was nowhere to 228 00:19:40.079 --> 00:19:47.319 be found. They called their friends and neighbors. Chris King 229 00:19:47.440 --> 00:19:51.319 told me a story about getting in the car with 230 00:19:51.440 --> 00:19:56.440 his guy friends' houses and scan backyards and by now 231 00:19:56.880 --> 00:20:01.680 was late and and said they drove up to one 232 00:20:01.720 --> 00:20:04.640 house and it was you know that it was pitch black, 233 00:20:06.680 --> 00:20:08.519 and he said, Mom, I'll just go up and knock 234 00:20:08.559 --> 00:20:11.400 on the door anyway, and she said no, you know, 235 00:20:11.559 --> 00:20:18.160 she said it's no use. And Chris said, you know, 236 00:20:18.240 --> 00:20:21.759 from that moment on, it was horrible because you knew 237 00:20:21.799 --> 00:20:22.720 what was going on. 238 00:20:26.400 --> 00:20:30.319 There was a witness that was said that somebody he 239 00:20:30.319 --> 00:20:33.400 saw a man speaking to Tim, and from that description, 240 00:20:33.480 --> 00:20:36.880 what was the description, but also the description of a 241 00:20:36.920 --> 00:20:43.079 potential vehicle, yes, uh, which. 242 00:20:43.240 --> 00:20:47.839 Which turned out to be one of the cases worst 243 00:20:48.160 --> 00:20:54.400 red herrings. But a day or so after Tim disappeared, 244 00:20:54.559 --> 00:20:58.599 a woman had told police that she had just finished 245 00:20:58.640 --> 00:21:03.680 grocery shopping for the night, I mean the night tomb 246 00:21:03.799 --> 00:21:06.440 was missing, and she was loading her groceries into her 247 00:21:06.480 --> 00:21:10.759 car and she said she saw a kid she identified 248 00:21:10.759 --> 00:21:16.599 as Tim because he was wearing his red hockey jacket. 249 00:21:16.920 --> 00:21:21.720 And Tim, she said, was talking to a man who 250 00:21:21.839 --> 00:21:28.400 she described in detail. He had long, dark hair with sideburns. 251 00:21:28.799 --> 00:21:33.200 He was I think she said, he was between twenty 252 00:21:33.200 --> 00:21:36.480 five and thirty years old. And she said they were 253 00:21:36.480 --> 00:21:41.799 both standing by a blue AMC Gremlin with the white 254 00:21:42.279 --> 00:21:50.480 hockey stripe. Of course, thereafter the entire area, you know, 255 00:21:50.680 --> 00:21:55.559 was blanketed by posters, you know, showing up the police 256 00:21:55.559 --> 00:21:59.759 composite of the sketch of the suspect and the Gremlin, 257 00:22:00.279 --> 00:22:10.079 and uh, police thereafter, you know, just sought out every owner. 258 00:22:10.240 --> 00:22:13.880 I think they they they got a list of every 259 00:22:14.000 --> 00:22:17.880 owner of nearly every owner of a Gremlin in the state. 260 00:22:17.920 --> 00:22:23.920 It was something like eight thousand owners. Uh. They ended 261 00:22:24.000 --> 00:22:30.599 up pulling over three thousand Gremlins, but it would take 262 00:22:30.680 --> 00:22:35.240 a long time to learn that the group blue Gremlin 263 00:22:35.400 --> 00:22:41.200 was was probably not the car they should be looking for. 264 00:22:41.400 --> 00:22:44.799 That myths became very hard to just fell. You know. 265 00:22:44.839 --> 00:22:50.759 I should note that that that night that Chris or 266 00:22:50.880 --> 00:22:54.319 that Tim went missing, Chris couldn't sleep, and so his 267 00:22:54.480 --> 00:22:58.359 elder brother, who was sixteen, so he grabbed the baseball 268 00:22:58.400 --> 00:23:00.519 that and he walked up to the high her Maple 269 00:23:00.680 --> 00:23:05.319 Pharmacy parking lot and there were three or four cars 270 00:23:05.400 --> 00:23:08.319 barked in the lot, and one of them listening and 271 00:23:08.720 --> 00:23:11.960 see gremlin with he was, you know, with a white 272 00:23:11.960 --> 00:23:16.960 hockey strike, and he remembered looking in the car and 273 00:23:17.039 --> 00:23:23.920 there was nothing. But when police came and interviewed the Kings, 274 00:23:24.680 --> 00:23:31.440 Chris had told them about how really the Gremlin couldn't 275 00:23:31.480 --> 00:23:35.279 be the suspects of Vehicke because he had seen it 276 00:23:35.359 --> 00:23:39.240 later that night, long after Tim had gone missing. But 277 00:23:39.640 --> 00:23:44.720 for whatever reason, the police discounted, you know, a sixteen 278 00:23:44.799 --> 00:23:50.759 year old version when you know, up against a person 279 00:23:50.799 --> 00:23:52.759 who had said she witnessed him. 280 00:23:54.519 --> 00:23:57.480 Now let's talk about let's talk about doctor Bruce Danto 281 00:23:57.759 --> 00:24:01.359 just briefly, because this is obvious lead to avail. But 282 00:24:01.839 --> 00:24:05.960 this guy offers to develop a profile of course free assistance. 283 00:24:06.519 --> 00:24:12.000 So he has a theory basically, what's his theory? And 284 00:24:12.000 --> 00:24:15.720 and you talk about this is day four, by day 285 00:24:15.799 --> 00:24:18.359 six people find the body of Kim King. 286 00:24:19.400 --> 00:24:27.519 Yeah. So Bruce Dantro was a psychiatrist and he loved 287 00:24:27.519 --> 00:24:37.279 the media. And his theory was that the killer might 288 00:24:37.400 --> 00:24:46.440 be trying to extract revenge on his family. And I 289 00:24:46.480 --> 00:24:50.000 think he thought he was a Vietnam veteran, and he 290 00:24:50.400 --> 00:24:56.480 Bruce Dantro really felt that he could he could possibly 291 00:24:57.559 --> 00:25:04.759 draw the killer out by communicating with him. And he 292 00:25:06.519 --> 00:25:16.839 had the a lot of different machinations and orchestrations to 293 00:25:16.839 --> 00:25:19.440 to try and draw the killer out. One of them 294 00:25:20.119 --> 00:25:25.680 was to go on the radio and dropped some some 295 00:25:26.920 --> 00:25:31.839 huts and and and he also wrote a letter to 296 00:25:32.079 --> 00:25:35.759 the killer that was published in the newspaper and said 297 00:25:36.799 --> 00:25:40.559 you can stop this now, and if you're reading this, 298 00:25:42.039 --> 00:25:45.559 please write me a letter. And indeed somebody named Alan 299 00:25:45.680 --> 00:25:50.599 wrote him a letter. They never found found out who 300 00:25:51.160 --> 00:25:58.920 the letter write, who Alan actually was. He had the 301 00:25:58.960 --> 00:26:05.440 newspaper print of fault weather report is a means to 302 00:26:05.519 --> 00:26:10.240 communicate with the killer the police. He was sure that 303 00:26:14.160 --> 00:26:18.799 uh something about nuts and squirrel road that the killer 304 00:26:19.039 --> 00:26:26.200 was was mining his victim squirrel searches for nuts, and 305 00:26:26.720 --> 00:26:30.160 later he put that out as a hint, and later 306 00:26:30.279 --> 00:26:35.559 police had a stakeout on Squirrel Road. It was. It 307 00:26:35.680 --> 00:26:43.559 was not very fruitful, but but interesting. Nonetheless, of course, 308 00:26:43.920 --> 00:26:48.079 you know, during this time, while while team was missing, 309 00:26:50.680 --> 00:26:58.240 the panic and fear was enormous. The the case became 310 00:26:58.359 --> 00:27:01.359 national news. It was. It was. It was on the 311 00:27:01.400 --> 00:27:07.880 cover of People magazine. It was covered by Walter Cronkite. 312 00:27:08.319 --> 00:27:13.480 And while Tim was missing, the Oakland County prosecutor at 313 00:27:13.480 --> 00:27:21.519 the time, Brooks Patterson, had authorized law enforcement to pull 314 00:27:21.559 --> 00:27:26.680 over and search every vehicle on the streets over that weekend. 315 00:27:28.119 --> 00:27:33.759 Tim was kidnapped on Wednesday. So the following weekend, Friday 316 00:27:33.799 --> 00:27:37.680 and Saturday and Sunday night, between two and six am, 317 00:27:37.920 --> 00:27:43.920 every vehicle on the streets was pulled over. It was. 318 00:27:44.200 --> 00:27:48.039 It was a huge effort. It was also unconstitutional. But 319 00:27:48.200 --> 00:27:56.200 the reasoning was because the kids were killed within an 320 00:27:56.240 --> 00:28:04.920 hour of being of their bodies being downe they were 321 00:28:06.400 --> 00:28:12.240 hoping to intercept the killer. 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We're prohibited 351 00:29:33.240 --> 00:29:35.559 by lock eight team plus terms and conditions APPLAG see 352 00:29:35.559 --> 00:29:36.480 website for details. 353 00:29:39.640 --> 00:29:45.240 Now you talked about the Tim King investigation and this 354 00:29:45.680 --> 00:29:49.480 panic that hits the community, the county and they're pulling 355 00:29:49.480 --> 00:29:53.759 over vehicles and then they find Tim King's body, yes, 356 00:29:54.119 --> 00:30:00.240 after six days. Yes, So now we're talking of bout. 357 00:30:01.599 --> 00:30:06.240 You have a task force that is organized and with 358 00:30:06.319 --> 00:30:09.839 Lieutenant Robinson as the commander and Detective Sergeant in Priest 359 00:30:10.160 --> 00:30:14.119 as his right hand man, and Lieutenant Joseph Kooning later 360 00:30:14.279 --> 00:30:18.279 is Robertson's successor. You talk about at that time that 361 00:30:18.440 --> 00:30:21.680 there at that time there was a theory that was 362 00:30:22.720 --> 00:30:27.599 espoused by these three people. What was that theory? And 363 00:30:27.640 --> 00:30:36.000 regarding this Oakland County child killings? 364 00:30:36.279 --> 00:30:42.920 That theory came after in nineteen seventy eight, after the 365 00:30:43.039 --> 00:30:51.880 task force had shut down because they believed that they 366 00:30:51.960 --> 00:30:59.160 had run out of money, and reporters who would circle 367 00:30:59.200 --> 00:31:03.240 back to their police sources, you know, the following winter 368 00:31:03.400 --> 00:31:11.160 when it snowed and on anniversaries circle back to their 369 00:31:11.200 --> 00:31:16.200 police sources and to ask them why the case was 370 00:31:16.240 --> 00:31:22.279 never solved and what they thought had happened in the case, 371 00:31:22.480 --> 00:31:31.640 And with striking similarity, all of the officers u spaun 372 00:31:31.720 --> 00:31:37.519 a theory that said, basically, you don't have to worry, 373 00:31:37.599 --> 00:31:44.640 it's been taken care of. Uh. The the our theory 374 00:31:44.960 --> 00:31:51.519 is that the killer was likely from a wealthy family, 375 00:31:52.559 --> 00:31:57.839 and the wealthy family had arranged to have the killer 376 00:31:58.000 --> 00:32:04.279 institutionalized for life, and so long as no other children 377 00:32:04.759 --> 00:32:11.519 went missing, ah, and nobody else would ever have to 378 00:32:11.559 --> 00:32:17.960 go through this again. It was put to rest. Some 379 00:32:18.000 --> 00:32:23.640 of the the the theories even went so far as 380 00:32:23.759 --> 00:32:30.279 to say that the families were aware that the killer 381 00:32:30.440 --> 00:32:35.400 had been institutionalized for life and rather than risk going 382 00:32:35.440 --> 00:32:41.480 through a public trial and having to you know, go 383 00:32:41.640 --> 00:32:46.880 through the agony of their you know, public reef beyond 384 00:32:46.920 --> 00:32:51.400 display or they were, they were okay with that and 385 00:32:51.480 --> 00:32:57.799 willing to put it behind them it. You know, of course, 386 00:32:57.839 --> 00:33:03.480 decades later, it wasn't no until decades later, how closely 387 00:33:03.839 --> 00:33:07.039 that theory aligned with what actually happened. 388 00:33:09.759 --> 00:33:12.119 You write in this book and you have a use 389 00:33:12.200 --> 00:33:18.240 this opportunity to educate and enlighten people in this book 390 00:33:18.279 --> 00:33:21.960 about the confluence of events as you describe it, the 391 00:33:22.000 --> 00:33:25.720 things that happened in the seventies, the laws that existed 392 00:33:25.839 --> 00:33:27.839 in the seventies, and the laws that didn't exist in 393 00:33:27.880 --> 00:33:32.720 the seventies, and then just the burgeoning growth of the 394 00:33:32.799 --> 00:33:37.359 child pornography industry given those lack of laws and just 395 00:33:37.519 --> 00:33:40.559 the confluence of events. So you talk about the cast 396 00:33:40.599 --> 00:33:44.119 Corridor in Detroit, You talk about Oakland County being one 397 00:33:44.160 --> 00:33:48.200 of the most affluent communities in the country, but Detroit, 398 00:33:48.319 --> 00:33:52.200 because of the recession, turns into a very murderous and 399 00:33:52.279 --> 00:33:54.839 crime ridden place, doesn't it. So tell us a little 400 00:33:54.839 --> 00:33:57.440 bit about the things you discuss. 401 00:33:58.119 --> 00:34:06.359