Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to the show. A'm Martin Willisher host.
I'm real excited about tonight's guests. Actually it's a pre
recorded show and I just love doing face to face
interviews and this was the case in Sedona, and I
got to tell you I had such a great time.
I've mentioned it on last couple days ago on Tuesday
Night show. But it was a lot of fun. I
got to meet a lot of like minded people. It's
always enjoyable and just you know, I mean the area
Sedona is just here's a couple of pictures and I'll
also put these pictures in the show notes for those
of you listening on audio. So this is called bell
Rock and so here's a picture here my producer, Donna,
and Travis Walton and Matt who came to meet me.
There were three people, Ron, Joel and Matt. Thank you
guys for coming to meet me. A shout out to you,
and also a shout out to anyone that maybe new
because a lot of people in Sodona said they were
going to start listening to the show, So thank you
for that. You're welcome to join in chat. It's always
a lot of fun in there. This was the panel
at the end, it was really interesting and you know
what I thought, my producer said, as we were on
our way home, no one asked this panel what they
thought about the three I Atlas, because there's so many
weird things going on in the internet around circulating about that.
I got to say, Jennifer Stein put on one heck
of a conference. It was really really worth going to
and a couple things. So I wanted to just talk
about first of all, our Oh you know what I'm
going to do. I'm going to go back and just
identify these people for the person watching. So from if
you're facing the screen from left to right, we have
Melinda Leslie, Ron James, Doctor, JJ Hurdick, Travis Walton, of course,
David Childres, Don Schmidt, and Jennifer Stein. So speaking of Jennifer,
I mean speaking of Don Schmidt. That is next week.
Next Tuesday is going to be a pre recorded show
and I've had a number of probably ten conversations over
the years with Don Schmidt. I have to say this
one on one that we had and Sedona is my
absolute favorite. I hope you tune in for that next Tuesday.
That's at nine pm Eastern right here on this channel
and if you want to support the show, anyone can
do that at patreon dot com. For two dollars or
more month you can get an ad free experience in
the audio and so check that out Elvera at podcast UFO.
Also is our weekly blogs, Encounters on the Roads of
Spain by Charles Learr. Is this last week's So, how
it's going to work tonight? Is I'm going to play
a clip of Travis Walton receiving the move On Canada
and America Lifetime Achievement award and someone, you know, I
did post the full video. This is a clip of it.
Some people said, well, what did he achieve? Well, I'll
tell you one thing he achieved is he didn't fall
apart after he had his experience. He's kept exactly the
same story. I listened, I said this last week. I
listened to an interview with him just a couple of
weeks after the incident, and then you listen to an
interview today and it's exactly the same. And it's such
a bizarre thing too, the way everything happened, you know,
I mean, if someone was going to make up a story,
it would be much simpler than that. I do believe.
But anyway, I'm going to play the clip. Like I said,
this is Travis Walton. It's a shortened version. The full
version is on my YouTube channel under shorts or Reels.
And right after that, I'm going to be playing the
Great interview with Stacy and so remember next week it's
Staun Schmidt on Tuesday and Irena Scott will be on Thursday.
All righty one, here we go.
Speaker 2: Ladies and gentlemen.
Speaker 3: Tonight we honor a man whose story has echoed across generations,
across continents, and across the dirty boundaries of belief, a
man who didn't choose the spotlight, but whose life was
forever changed by it. Nearly five decades ago, Travis Walton
vanished from the Arizona Wilderness. For five days, the world
held its breath, and when he returned, he carried with
him a story that would challenge science, shake skeptics, and
ignite a global conversation about what lies beyond. Unlike many
in the UFO community, Travis never saw fame. He didn't
step forward. He was thrust forward. As Travis Walton reminds us,
that courage isn't just surviving the extraordinary, it's standing by
it year after year with grace, humility, and unshakable authenticity.
Tonight we celebrate not just the man who lived the experience,
but the man who lived with it, who carried it,
who honored it. It is no easy feat to walk
in Travis Walton's footsteps, but because he did, the world
is forever changed, and so on behalf of Moufon Canada
and Moufon United States. We are proud to present Travis
Walton with the Lifetime Achievement Award for his unwavering dedication
to truth, his resilience in the face of doubt, and
the legacy he leaves behind.
Speaker 2: May this award be recorded with respect, made travisy exploring,
he remembered with.
Speaker 3: Accuracy, and made his integrity inspire generations to come. You're back,
it's could be back with you.
Speaker 1: Remember how many years ago it's been. I know Graham
Hagcock can be a little bit controversial, but I like
him and I think he's really great when he's diving
into you know, all this ancient things makes so much sense.
Speaker 3: Hard, and he's really good at defending his theories.
Speaker 1: And yes, that's that's well said. I think he is
very good at defending his theories when he's often attacked. Yeah,
you know, and it's things that are hard to prove.
But you know, I think realistically, I think a lot
of our history books are going to be re re
re written.
Speaker 3: I hope so they absolutely need it, and especially the
archaeology side. I mean, you can't really argue with what
we're finding as far as the dating of everything that's right.
And you know, how can you argue with that when
you have your hand on an artifact that's right. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And now there was a story about this several years ago,
this woman archaeologist that discovered something that didn't fit the agenda,
and she was basically blackbald. She said it would have
been okay if it was something twenty thousand years, but
this was like two hundred thousand years and she was
basically blackbald for talking about it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Academia does not forgive very easily. Yeah, but I
think there's millions of us that believe that the history
books do need to be rewritten. They were written from
the viewpoint of the conquerors, always.
Speaker 1: Always, and there's just written by the victors, as they say, Yeah, so.
Speaker 3: Much more to the story. And you know, like Graham
Hancock says, just keep getting older. Yeah, and it can
be proven now. So yeah, it's just really interesting.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, So how did your journey go? You know,
you read the books you got interested in. How did
your journey go into getting involved, let's say, mof on
and other things, any other things.
Speaker 3: Well, you know, I just kept reading and I thought,
you know, living in Phoenix, this world class city, they
had the Phoenix Lights happen there, there's got to be
some great UFO meeting happening here, you know, as nutty
as it could be. I thought I want to go
to one of those. So I started looking around.
Speaker 1: Do you mind if I just stop you here? So
you talked about the Phoenix Lights. Were you in Phoenix
when that happened.
Speaker 3: I lived in Phoenix when it happened, but I did
not see it. Yeah, I did not see it. I
had to have someone from out of state call me
up and say, hey, what happened in Phoenix last night?
You know there was a UFO or something And I'm
like what, So, well, I did not witness it, but
you know we're still talking about it there.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, okay, So continue, I'm sorry interrupted you. Okay.
Speaker 3: So I just was looking for a meeting, and I
found this crazy sounding group called Moufon, and I thought, well,
you know, I'll write to them and say, hey, how
come there's now meetings going on. So I didn't know
at the time that I was writing to the executive
director of Moufon, but he wrote back to me and said, yeah,
it's Lamee dormant for seven or eight years there. We
don't know why, but give me a couple of weeks
and we're going to try to get a meeting going.
So they did that. I attended that first meeting and
they were looking for someone to become field investigator and
maybe start up a new chapter there in Phoenix. And
there was about four people at this first meeting that
I went to, and I thought, well, I can probably
do that. I've never ran a meeting before or spoken
in front of people, but I thought I can probably
do this. So I raised my hand and it just
kind of started from there, and we've grown from I
think we've been through six different venues. Now we keep
out growing the venues and now we're anywhere from one
hundred and fifty up to two hundred and seventy five
people at each of our monthly meetings. Oh so it
was a success story and I think the area was
just ready for something again.
Speaker 1: And you just said, unfortunately the venue has been flooded
out and that changed a couple of.
Speaker 3: Things right now. There was some flooding that happened with
these recent heavy rains that we've had in September, So
it affected the auditorium where we meet, and it's under
restoration right now. And of course it's a state run facility.
We're at the Arizona Historical Society Museum.
Speaker 1: Oh so, being a.
Speaker 3: State run thing, you've got to put all that out
to the vendors for bid. It's a very slow process,
and so they've shut us down for a couple of months.
We won't be back in there until January of twenty six.
Speaker 1: And there was going to be a Travis Walton event.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Travis's fiftieth anniversary of his event here in the
Mountains would have been on November fifth, and so we
happened to have asked him to come and speak at
the Phoenix move On meeting for November eighth, and we
had a big deal planned there and a big dinner
reception afterward. It all had to be canceled, Yeah, all
of it.
Speaker 1: Were you going to present Well, we'll talk about the
presentation last night, okay, but was it going to be
presented at that time?
Speaker 3: Yes?
Speaker 1: All right, So why don't we we talk about this.
I did post anyone can look at my YouTube channel
and I did post the video up there of you presenting.
Oh okay, Travis, So let's talk about how that all
came about and the uh is it called the Lifetime
Achievement Award?
Speaker 3: Yes? It is?
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, So anyway, it was wonderful to see Travis
so moved.
Speaker 3: It was, and anything less than a Lifetime Achievement Award
would have been silly for this man because fifty years
of going through everything that he did and standing by
it and story never changing, and it was It's just
the most genuine thing you've ever heard. So of course
he had to have something, you know, that would accommodate
him that way. So we were lucky enough to you know,
have the Skyfire Summit happening, and we decided to just
present everything here and Sidona Mofon has done a great
job of making this all happen here, and so it
was a He actually seved three awards last night, Yes,
and it was just wonderful to see all that happening
for him, and yeah it was. It was pretty moving
for everyone. I barely finished that without, you know, having
a couple of tears come along for me too, But yeah,
it was. It was a beautiful moment.
Speaker 1: It was moving for everyone there. And I have to
tell you, well, I have to tell the audience, you know,
I introduced Travis and Jennifer Stein at the event here,
and what I put across was that, I don't know,
maybe two weeks ago, Donna, my producer, and I were
driving along and had a long drive ahead of us,
so I looked at Eyes on Cinema and I found
Travis Walton's original first interview in nineteen seventy five, I
think it was right after, very shortly after, and we
listened to that thing, and it's just like he's telling
the story today. There is nothing embellished, there's nothing changed.
So I mean that's and I also want this point
to make. I want to make this point as well
to anyone who's a naysayer, and that is just think
of this. Logically, if you were going to say, oh,
look I was you know, I was abducted and I
was gone all this time. Blah blah blah. You would
make it very simple if you were making it up.
His details about you know, his being in pain when
he wakes up. You know what he thinks is an
operating table. The people above him that he realized that
weren't doctors after a while grabbing the rod type thing,
trying to you know, get them away. They're stare at him,
like controlling him with trying to control him with their stare,
the fact that he could hardly breathe. Then this person
that looked like a person shows up with like a
fishbowl helmet and then walk them into another room where
he sees other people without the helmets. You know, I'm
just seeing these details are so intense and you know why,
how could you couldn't even imagine something like that? Right,
So I think that gives a lot of credibility. So
it's such an unusual and counters.
Speaker 3: You know, this guy went through so much and he
recalls so greatly the detail on this. Yeah, but it's
very simple and it's telling and it just comes across
you just know that he is one of those salt
of the Earth people. Travis Walton. He's just full of integrity,
So yeah, you have to believe him.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I've had a lot of we try to
get away from that noise, and the noise seems to
be following us. Sorry everyone, there's kids, so it really
you know, I've asked some questions like do you remember
using the bathroom? What was that? Like, you know, it's no,
he didn't remember any of that. I asked him about smells.
He said, no, all I remember is really hard breathe.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, he was suffocating. It felt like the
oxygen level might have been low. And he talks about
his fear level and you know, you could imagine that too,
and his level of surprise when he came to and
then you know, and it does sound like maybe they
gave him some humanoid looking people that wouldn't scare him
as much as the ray beings that he was seeing,
or there just have been there could have just been
different extraterrestrial species working together too. You know, it's really
hard to tell.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you know, you also think about food. He
was gone five days, but that's kind of a gray
area because maybe he wasn't gone five days to him,
but he did have beard growth when he came back. Yes, so,
you know, but maybe the time was different somehow, I
mean times involved here. Somehow, there's some type of correlation
between time and all these things going on. I do
believe that's my own thing. But you know, just the
fact that he thought he was gone for you know,
a few hours. He didn't know that he was gone, and.
Speaker 3: He wasn't depleted in any way. He said he felt fine.
He came out of it better than he felt that
he went into it.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: I've talked with him personally, and he says he felt
like he's enhanced because of the situation.
Speaker 1: Yeap. And he was worried about health ushers for a
long time, but his health is good.
Speaker 3: Yeah, he's good. He came out of it stronger.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: So it's an amazing story.
Speaker 1: It is. It is. And you know, he's he's not
someone that's like prone to get into other you know,
I had a conversation with him recently. He's not prone
to really look at other cases so much other than his.
But he's also had a couple of UFO sightings himself
since that time, which is you know, and it was
hard for him to talk about because he's worried about it.
Somehow affecting the aspect of his credibility. Yeah, so I understand.
Speaker 3: And see that there's still a lot of giggle factor
out there people have, and it's just really sad that
they can't be a little more open minded that it exists.
Speaker 1: Now, you're here in this wonderful, beautiful place where you
can see miles and miles and miles. What's the activity like?
Speaker 3: Well, you know, the Sedona area seems to always be
a hotspot.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: And you know, if you've ever been here and visited,
you see the red rocks everywhere. You know that there's
a lot of magnetism going on here. That's iron oxide
leeching out of the hillsides. Ah, So there's a lot
of magnetism here. So we have always wondered, is it
the magnetics that maybe is drawing the craft in here?
What could it be? You know, there's the vortex sites
that they have here, and I've felt that myself. I'm
not the kind of person that usually feels real sensitive
to stuff like that, but there's one location here that
has pretty much made me keel over the three times
that I visited it. So there's some going on here.
I'm not sure what it is, but those vortex sites
really do have some kind of feeling to them, some
kind of magnetics. It's kind of strange, So fun but strange.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Now, I used chat GPT quite a bit for
different things, questions and stuff. And when David Childress was
talking yesterday, I looked up a lot of this stuffing
was talking about live real time.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: But anyway, so I looked up when I was coming
out here, vor Texas, and there's like five or six places.
There's some type of bridge they talk about. There's several
places where they say. One of them is a ranch.
Speaker 3: Yes, Bradshaw Ranch.
Speaker 1: Bradshaw Ranch, that's correct.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Yeah, there's Bradshaw Ranch. There's the airport, which I
went and visited myself at.
Speaker 1: The airport, that's right. Yeah, yeah, you said the airport, yes.
Speaker 3: Yeah, So I sat up there and watched the planes
come and go for a little while this morning. So, yeah,
there's Bradshaw Ranch. And there's another hiking spot on the
way up to the airport that's supposed to have some
kind of something going on there too. I haven't ever
felt anything there a bit, but yeah, it's loaded with believers,
visitors from all parts of the world are here. There's
a little bit of everything going on. It's kind of
like Disneyland, and Sedona is not a large town, but
it seems like it is because it's just busy with tourists.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: You have the pink jeep tours going by.
Speaker 1: I saw that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and you have the nighttime skywatching tours, and there's
just a little bit of everything going on here, right,
But it's a fun place, and you know, if that's
what it takes to bring people here and maybe learn
a little bit more about the subject and get a
little more educated than great come see it.
Speaker 1: And it's funny. I've had two or three listeners to
the show shout out to them, Oh god, I don't
remember their names right now, but they had came here.
They came here specially because they knew that I was
going to be here, and they came to meet me,
which was wonderful, and so I was really I always love,
you know, running into it because I always asked them,
how'd you find my show? That's important to me, you know,
how do people find my show? And most of them say,
I don't really remember, just.
Speaker 3: Was looking UFO stuff and there you are.
Speaker 1: Yeaheah, it's pretty easy if you're looking for a podcast
and you're looking at on UFOs. I did that purposely, of.
Speaker 3: Course, getten nice and clear. Yeah.
Speaker 1: The only reason I didn't name my show UFO podcast
because that ur well was taken. But anyway, so why
let's talk. I'm sorry I'm getting a little scattered here,
but I want to talk about the Phoenix Lights. Okay,
there was actually someone that was going to come up
here and meet with me. I haven't seen him, and
maybe i'll show up today. That was one of the witnesses,
and he's been on a number of shows and things
like that. But about the Phoenix Lights, is there still
a lot of controversy about that? I mean, I know
it was so long ago, nineteen ninety seven, March thirteenth,
but is there still a lot of controversy about the
flares and all that.
Speaker 3: You've got a mixed bag of believers on this, but
it's people that really haven't looked into the timeline of
what was happening in that day or so surrounding the
Phoenix Lights. What happened is really at eight thirty at
night is when the lights showed up. Okay, and then
there was the big side. And you see on TV
where you hear the guy in the background that says
major siding here, Yes, ten pm. That's ten pm, And
that is when Operation Snowbird was going on down in
Tucson at Davis smanth And Air Force Base, and they
were dropping illumination flares at that time.
Speaker 1: That's right.
Speaker 3: They had a maneuver that they were doing and they
just said, oh, it just all tied into this. No,
those were flares that everyone saw. No, the main siding
was eight thirty, not ten pm. So you know, knowing
that we do know how to tell time, makes a
little bit of a difference there.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: So yeah, there was you know, there was tens of
thousands of people that were witnessed to this and there
was over one thousand, nine to one one calls that
came in, and so it was really well documented. Not
everyone had a cell phone back then. It was really
ever anyone have any kind of a phone like that
with a camera, but they.
Speaker 1: Did have camera. A few people did have video cameras
had video.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and we've come across some new footage just recently
from a whole fire department that was close to Prescott
that was out there witnessing it. So we're in the
process of getting this information right now. So Mary Ann
rob might be your person to ask about that.
Speaker 1: Oh yes, yeah, she's on that. Oh yeah, so but.
Speaker 3: Yeah, there were so many people that saw things. We
have different stories. We still have stories coming in all
the time. We probably have three or four people reporting
it in now saying you know, I saw that back then,
but I just felt like I could not say anything
back then. Something told me to just be quiet. I
could not report that in now. Yeah, I want to
tell you about this. So we're still getting pieces of
the puzzle and we're hoping to combine all that, you know,
with the database that we have and maybe, you know,
fix that puzzle a little bit, you know, yeah, see
what we can we can get out of it. But
it was still something that was not felt by anyone
to be harmful. It was very peaceful. There was people
that had messages that said sit still and just watch.
So it was a display of some sort and we
don't know, you know, there's a lot of people say, well,
it came from the corner of Nevada down there, that's
where area fifty one is, and it came all the
way across the state. It had to be something at
Area fifty one that got loose. Yeah, okay, so it
got loose. Was it something of ours that we were
keeping super secret? You know, and they decided to fly
it across the city just to see what the reaction was. Well,
that's kind of silly if they were trying to keep
it that secret. If it was et stuff that was
housed at Area fifty one, then yeah, did it just
get loose? And they decided to take a joy ride
down the freeway because they could see all the lights.
They kind of followed the freeway all the way through Arizona,
which is interesting to me. So, you know, we just
don't know exactly what that was. But when you hear
that it was.
Speaker 1: Peter Davenport has talked on my show here a number
of times about some people thinking that it might have
been eight miles wide, right, And that's that's the varying crazy.
Speaker 3: But a lot of the accounts say, how super large
this was? Yeah, just so large that you can't even
wrap your head around it. Do you love to see
something like that? You know?
Speaker 1: Oh my god? Yes, Do you think the pilot that
was totally shooken up? That land. I guess he was uncontrollably.
Speaker 3: Shaken up, had to be walked off the tarm helped
off the tarmac because he was so shaken by what
he had seen up there. So I would love to
find out exactly who that was. That story just kind
of ended right there, and I could not find out
any information beyond that. But yeah, I'd love to get
that person's.
Speaker 1: Do you think it's a possibility someday that you know,
I mean, who knows how old he is at this
point or whatever.
Speaker 3: We get a lot of things as deathbed confessions even,
you know, so maybe one day we'll find out.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I wonder I guess we can only speculate
why it shook them up like that. I mean, was
it the size of it, was that the you know,
what was it that?
Speaker 3: You know?
Speaker 1: Again, a lot of you know, it seemed like it
was kind of peaceful. Some people said that they looked
up and it was like rippling through like you could
see kind of rippling through it.
Speaker 3: Right, that it was opaque, that you could see the
stars through it. It's kind of like water.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: So yeah, and everyone did report the lights that were
embedded on the underside of the wingspan. Yeah, so that
seems to be a common thread. But yeah, people said
it just went super slow, super low, and completely silent, right,
And that's the thing that gets me is the silence
of it, because everything, even back in ninety seven, I'm
not sure we had technology to do that. Everything we
have that has high propulsion is also very loud, yes,
everything that's loud. Yeah, So to have something that size,
almost hovering, going that slow and it was very low, Yeah,
why was there no noise? How come we couldn't hear
a thing, No wearing sound, no humming right, no big
jet engine kind of sound, there was just nothing. So
that to me is otherworldly when you see that it
was completely silent.
Speaker 1: Well, you know, when I had my own personal sighting,
that's the number one thing that stood out to me
was it was moving and it was perfectly silent. And
I had never heard I've never really had looked into
other UFO sightings, so I never heard anyone talk about that.
So I had no idea and mine had the one
unusual thing had like a plasma blue glow around it,
and I've only heard one other person talk about something
like that, So you know, I mean, I have no
idea what it was. But to me, it felt otherworldly.
You know, it was perfectly round circle, like a disc.
And you know, that's why I'm here, That's why I'm
doing the show for all these years because that was
such a puzzle to me. But the number one thing
was the silence. I just couldn't, you know, it didn't
make any sense to me. And then it stopped, like
stopped like you know, and stayed in one place and
then went off at an angle.
Speaker 3: And I was like, I think it was stopping to
observe you.
Speaker 1: No, it was. It was in a distance when it
stopped away from me, and then it headed toward Monterey.
I was in Carmel Valley, California, and it was heading
like toward Carmel and then stopped and then went toward Monterey.
That and there is a naval school or something in Monterey.
So I don't know if I had anything to do
with anything, but you know, it's all. But I did,
you know, I didn't. I called the nine one one
because I didn't know what to do. But anyway, I
never even thought that there'd be any online reporting of
any type. I had no idea, so I didn't report it.
But over the years, I've looked. I have looked, and
you know, I even forget, forgot exactly the month it
wasn't in two thousand and seven, but I did find
that they're in November of two thousand and seven, there
was a sighting in the Monterey area. Yeah, but they
described a cigar shape, So I don't know if it's
the same.
Speaker 3: You know, you still can report that in too, move on.
I know we take old maybe news stuff.
Speaker 1: Okay, I should do it.
Speaker 3: We have that now.
Speaker 1: I can't nail down the date I didn't.
Speaker 3: Maybe a field investigator can you know, when they look
at that database and compare things, they can find things
in the area that were similar, other people that may
have seen something similar. So yeah, I supported in just
to see.
Speaker 1: What anything, I'll do it, I'll do it.
Speaker 3: Move on dot Com.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think I know that. But anyway, you know,
I mean, I've had a few other things happened since
that time, but I've I've always been reluctant to say
something because like Travis Walton, maybe I'm not saying anything
like Walton, but I'm afraid of I don't want to
do anything to affect my credibility. So but I did
see what was going across the sky do a zigzag,
you know. And there was another incident too, and then
one of my UFO sightings on film end up being explained.
And I like that personally. I bet you do too,
when you can figure out.
Speaker 3: When we get answers, that's what we're looking for.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and there's so many really great things that you
don't need to embellish, you don't need to have. All
we really want is an answer, right, I mean, that's
all that really matters is to find out what these
things are. But I still so on that line. You
know a lot of people talk about disclosure. That was
talked a lot in the last day. Here my personal thoughts,
I don't really know if we're going to actually hit
real disclosure all the way through. What are your ideas
on that?
Speaker 3: You know? I think it's happening every day in little bits,
uh huh. You know, it's not disclosure with a big D,
disclosure with a little D. And I think that every
day we compound on that. I think that things that
are happening every day we put them all together. It
might take a really long time until we build this
up to what we think is disclosure and it's a
different thing for everyone too.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 3: A lot of people, you know the old adage, Oh yeah,
well when they land on the White House lawn, they
will have disclosure. But you know they've flown over the capitol.
That really didn't that didn't do it do much back
in fifty two.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: So, but you know, people are seeing things and feeling
things every day, and then the experiencers and contact d's
that we have that are just everywhere, people need to
listen to them more. They are basically our experts right now.
They have more experience than we do on this subject,
and so they need to be heard. They need to
be helped, you know, and move on. Has this great
experience or resource team that helps these people to realize
they're not crazy. You're not going through this alone. You
did see what you saw. Let us let us document
this for you and help you through this so that
you can know that what you saw is real and
not be so bothered by it anymore.
Speaker 1: Does Kathy Martin have an involvement with.
Speaker 3: That, Yeah, she still does. Yeah, she's still involved with that.
George Metich is the director for that with moufon right
now and has a great team under him of you know,
counselors and field investigators and people that can really.
Speaker 1: Help now move on. It took a while from moufon
to go down that route, and it actually when I
started my show, it took me a long time before actually,
you know, I was on the fence about it, and
then until I met certain people like Travis is one
of them, and then you know, the Aleig Ashinson and
I met those people and later Calvin Parker and all
these so and you know, it's hard not to think
like a human when you're trying to think of what
these beings could be. But the human experience would be
if we're going to explore, we're also going to explore
the animals or whatever wherever we're at, you know, the
dark to the polar bear, you know, that type of situation.
It kind of makes sense, you know, because there's definitely
something visiting us. I don't know, I still say, I
don't know where, if it's actually from another planet or whatever,
but it does make sense for them to look at
more than just observing us from afar, right.
Speaker 3: So yeah, that probably gets old pretty fast. So you know,
they I think they've tried to integrate themselves with us
and find out what's going on. I feel like they
might be more like the Fish and Game Department. Yeah,
you know, they see us, they want to know what
we're doing. They capture us, they knock us out, they
take samples of hair and blood and tissue, they tag us,
they turn us loose again, and they monitor us. Fish
and Game Department, yeah, you know. Yeah, so we do
the same thing with our animals here on this planet.
And I think that they're monitoring us, and you know,
who knows what their long term agenda is here. It
seems to take a really long time. But to them,
time isn't what we think time is, so right, They've
got time.
Speaker 1: Yeah, But I.
Speaker 3: Think that they're they're learning, you know, they want to
learn a little bit about what we are. I don't
think they're here to eat us, yeah, or it would
have happened by now, you know. But I think they
want to learn from us, and maybe they want us
to grow a little bit more so that we can
integrate ourselves into that galactic community that right now we're
a little flawed still. So yes, I think they want
this warlike thing that we've got going on to be
out there with them until we grow up just a
little bit.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know if that's going to happen or not.
But speaking of fishing game, yeah, brings me to a
kind of an odd topic, and that is let's talk
about dolphins. Now, dolphins weren't always in the water. They
evolved from the land to the water, and a lot
of people don't know that they're mammals. So, but they're
in incredibly intelligent. You know, some speculate even have more
intelligence than people. I don't know, but some people, for sure,
do they want to pull some people do they want
to abduct a dolphin and study that. I mean, you
never hear of any other intelligent, semi intelligent, you know,
beings on the earth being abducted. Cows I wouldn't call intelligent,
you know, and not.
Speaker 3: So much, you know, but there's a lot of them
and they probably pretty easy to get, so the cows
and the horses and people for that matter too. Yeah,
you know, there's a lot of us cruising around and
big variety of it, so they've got a lot to
work with there.
Speaker 1: Now. We talked you and I off air. We talked
a little bit about David Plaidi's and you know, for
one one missing for one one. But you think about
you could speculate, I mean you I would speculate with
all the many hundreds of thousands of missing people each year,
that maybe some of them are being abducted and not
brought back, you know, I mean you could. But most
most of the time it's explained, you know, where they
are or whatever. But sometimes people just go plain missing
and that's it and they're gone.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it is a phenomenon. You know. It's really interesting
to listen to David talk about the different categories that
he's developed with these missing people and the similarities with them.
But you know, and a lot of people know that
David started out in bigfoot research, so a lot of
people always ask him during the middle of a lecture,
so are you thinking, do you think that Bigfoot is
the one that's you know, getting all these people? And
He's like, no, I did not say that. If you
want to correlate that, you go right ahead, But no,
I am not saying that. But the possibilities there, right,
I mean, there's a lot of possibilities. So yeah, but
now I think people are more and David too, I
think more in the line of this idea of portals
being out there, that you can walk through portals at
any given moment in time. You just don't know where
they're at. We are unable to see them or sense
them most of us. Some people can. But people may
be just walking through portals into another dimension and maybe
sometimes they find their way out of it, or maybe
someone boots them back out of it. I'm not sure what.
But a lot of these missing people show up again
later in the same area that has been searched in
searching search, or they're in that same area, but they
happen to be one hundred feet up on a rock
cliff or on the top of a tree.
Speaker 1: How'd they get a child? Something?
Speaker 3: Now, how does that happen? So something, something's going on.
And I really think that there's a lot of interdi
dimensionality out there that we have yet to discover. I mean,
the scientists will tell you right now that there's twenty
seven other parallel universes right beside us, other dimensions. We
can't see them, we can't access them usually, but they're there.
Speaker 1: The brains I think called brains, not like membranes type
of Yeah, that's all fascinating.
Speaker 3: To me, there's some cool stuff out there that we're
just starting to dig into, and I think we'll find
some answers.
Speaker 1: I had a scientist, Jensen Anderson, PhD Harvard and all
that very you know, really archaeologists and all that, on
my show and asked her what because she's really interested
in the UFO topic. She thinks her extraterrestrial, and so
I did mention to her, what do you think about
the interdimensional type of thing? And she said that a
lot of things, it doesn't work, it doesn't fit. But
you know, I brought up cases like, for instance, I'm
trying to think of his name right now, Chera Muda,
what's his first name? Was on my show from the
Areel School incident and Jeremy Cheermuda, but I can't remember
his first.
Speaker 3: One of the children, yes, had experiences there.
Speaker 1: And he was saying that the thing was blinking out
and blinking ahead of itself, the being as it was
running toward the pool. And she had a really she
had a scientific explanation that could be other than interdimensional.
It's like recreating a folding or something. You'd have to
watch the episode to understand it. But I mean, she
was fascinating woman. She very very brilliant. But it was
really interesting. That's why I love doing the show. Is
I like to hear everybody's opinions. Yeah, and you know,
it's such a puzzle and you know, and it's really
interesting to hear. I still think there could be an
inter dimensionality to it somehow, you know, it's there could
be not to everything, but you know.
Speaker 3: But there could be all kinds of things going on.
I mean, I still think that we think of them
coming from outer space, but what if they are just
a co indigenous species with us here on this planet.
They've been here a lot longer than we have. Yes,
maybe they've been housed underground. Maybe they're in our abysses
of the ocean.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean we we.
Speaker 3: Know so little about that right now. We know more
about the surface of Mars than we know about those
abysses in our oceans. Yes, So I know that's a
big field to study right now, and people are really
delving into that.
Speaker 1: I asked Lou Alisondo when he was on my show,
because I heard him on another podcast saying that what
if we're not the top of the food chain, what
if we're not you know, intellectually, what if something's been
here all along like that? So I asked him to
expand on that, and he said he couldn't really talk
much more about it. And maybe, you know, people can
have an attitude one way or the other about Lou
but you know, maybe he does know something that he
can't talk about. I'm sure you yeah. So, yeah, it's
all it's all fascinating to me. And you know, I
say often on the show, we probably don't know what's
going on around us right now, right, there's so much
to try to understand, so much to it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, there's just avenues after avenues of thought, you know,
different camps of thought, and it's great to look into
all of them. Yeah, because that's what it's going to
take to find something that works, you know, right, there's
a lot of avenues out there.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. So the future of getting back to Lamufon
and Phoenix you have to wait until January before you
can get the meetings going again. Do you think your
membership will drop off because of the break.
Speaker 3: I think that they'll be really anxious to get back
to some meetings because people just love it. You know,
it's three hours on a Saturday afternoon, of not only
great education and material, but entertaining. You know, it's entertaining
to everyone, and they go home and they spread the
word with the friends. You got to come with me
next time. You know, this is really a great thing.
And so we just have a really good group of
people that come back, and I think they'll probably going
to miss it by then. So yeah, we're trying to
come up with a couple of different things to keep
things rolling between now and then.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Now I understand the boot camps on a little
bit of a hold and that may you know, develop again.
But right now there's he's taking.
Speaker 3: A break for a year on the field Investigator boot camp.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, Now I met someone through the boot camp
that I visited. I really loved it. I thought it
was very you know, just so interesting to hear all
these different ways of investigating and you know, hopefully you'll
do this again. And Mark D'Antoni was involved, he was
there as well, his good friend. But Denise, who I
interviewed there, she had an amazing sighting when she was fifteen.
She's now a co director I believe of New York
Move On and or something like that, or no, I
think she's chief investigator of move On, New York. That's
what it is. So she's going to I know, she's
going to listen to this podcast. She listens to the podcast,
but then a little shout out to you, Denise. Good job, Denise, Yeah,
no kidding. Yeah, so that was just like three or
four years ago, I do believe, So she's done pretty well.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah. The boot camp's fun. You know, a lot
of people love it and they keep asking about it,
you know, and yeah, and we've got you know, instructors
for those classes there that teach on advanced interviewing techniques, yes,
healthy versus unhealthy, mental states, photo analysis, how to do
the cases quickly and efficiently, and you know, and how
to get to the people. So we have a lot
of great topics there along with the forensic field work
that we do in the afternoons out in the desert.
So that's always really fun. And that's you know, taught
by some of the best of the best, which is
John Dover and Stanley Gilford. Yes, former Arizona Navajo rangers, right,
So they're you know, great at what they do and
they just make it really fun with all their different
stories that they have from the Navajo reservation.
Speaker 1: As well, right right, So it's a.
Speaker 3: Fun it's a fun three days.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we'll bring it back.
Speaker 3: Now.
Speaker 1: I'm going to talk to you about you doing investigation,
to your investigation as yourself.
Speaker 3: I don't do any right now because I'm the state director.
So I do have twenty two field investigators here in
Arizona under me, and so I get the cases in
and then I assigned the cases to those field investigators.
So we've got just you know, a great team of
people that really know what they're.
Speaker 1: Doing and what's the activity, like a little.
Speaker 3: Bit of everything. I mean, we have Category three cases,
which are things that could be abductions or things that
are so close that you know, they had close contact.
So we've got everything from lights in the sky to
you know, orbs, just anything you could imagine we've got
coming in and we cover it all.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And what do you think about the orbs? It
seems like almost a different category than the nuts and
bolts type of craft.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know there. I think that they're more intelligence.
They are intelligently controlled.
Speaker 1: So everyone seems to think, I mean that's what do
you hear?
Speaker 3: So electric something is transferring into these orbs and they
are just manifesting themselves and crewising around and showing themselves,
and it looks like they're very interested in people and
what people are doing.
Speaker 1: Now, do you think that could be a technology? I mean,
not a technology. Do you think that could be what
lou Elizondo is talking about, something that's been here all
along and may have a higher intelligence center.
Speaker 3: It could be. It could be, or it could be
something as simple as a scout coming to check things
out before something else comes to check us out. Yeah,
we just don't know yet. We know that it happens
all the time. People are seeing them in all colors,
all speeds, all just everything. So orbs are a big deal.
Speaker 1: I remember, I believe his name was Terry Ray wrote
a book about orange orbs. I haven't heard much from
him lately out there, but I had him on my
show and he had so many stories about the orange
orbs and you say different colors. I ran in, I've
talked about this a number of times, but I sat
next to an American Airlines pilot. This was right after
the New York Times article came out, I mean immediately after,
like a week after, and I asked him if he
had happened to see that article about the you know,
the government looking into UFOs. You know, we're in a
general conversation and he said, no, I missed that. He said,
but they exist. And I love when people say that,
because I'm going to follow up and say, oh, do
tell me. Yeah. And so he was the pilots. Yeah,
he was an Air Force pilot. He was an F
sixteen I think that's F sixteen pilot in the Air Force.
And he said he was doing a long distance relocate
of an F sixteen and he said, all of a sudden,
this green orb showed up and was next to him.
And he says, his weasel, the weapon weapons operator, was
sound asleep in the back. And I've talked to other pilots.
They said that's very unusual. Even if it's just a relocate,
they shouldn't be sleeping, you know. The guy should have
and he said he didn't wake them up. And the
thing followed him for three hundred miles and lit up
the cockpit bright green. It was extremely bright green, and
then right before it shot off and then it was gone.
And he said, he said, I was. He goes, there's
no way I was going to report that. He said,
I just never reported. I asked him, I said, would
you mind being on? Can I interview you from my show?
He said absolutely not. I said, how about, I said,
never do this, but how about anonymously? He said absolutely
not not interested.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, the stigma is so high out there between
the pilots and a lot of first responders too. I
mean they're seeing stuff, yeah, they're not reporting it in.
Speaker 1: But I think it's less. I think that has there's
been a bit of a sea change in.
Speaker 3: That it's become more mainstream. Yeah, definitely, especially with everything
that the military has been putting out. Yeah, you know,
the stuff we've been seeing on TV, and the Pentagon's
talking about it, and the congressional hearings and so it's
become very mainstream. And I believe like an amnesty program
in place for these people to come forward without you know,
being charged with anything, that's going to change a lot
of things.
Speaker 1: I think so. Yeah, And I you know, personally myself,
I was very afraid to talk about this professionally, you know,
like and right now, at this point in my life,
I really don't care that much. I'm still a professional
fine art appraiser and I still go into houses, but
I'm not worried so much about talking about it, and
I'm in a conversation that feels right, I'll talk about it.
Speaker 3: Because now the great thing is when someone says, what
do you believe in that stuff?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 3: And then you can say, do you govern the news?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 3: Do you ever watch the news? Have you seen what's
been going on for the last seven years?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 3: You know, that's a really valid thing to come back with,
because it is there's all kinds of stuff out there,
and if you're not aware of what's going on, then sorry,
you were just the uneducated one right now. Sorry.
Speaker 1: I was in a mixed company, and I was in
mixed company in the antiques world, and I was at
an antiques fair and there was some young girls all
involved in this company called Worthpoint, and I had an
associate association with them, and we were traveling around the
country and doing appraisal clinics and things like that. It
was a lot of fun. And so the one guy
that was that I've known for the longest, he called
me up one day and he said, oh my god,
you have a show on UFOs And I said, yeah,
this is back in like two thousand and thirteen, fourteen,
and I said, yeah, you know, And then so he
told me about his He had quite an amazing sighting
where you know, everyone reacts differently, and his friends that
were with him at the time will not talk about
it even to this day. But he had a negative,
a very negative experience, a negative feeling like this thing
felt harmful and was right above them. And so anyway,
he and I started talking about it in this mixed
group and they were all saying, you guys are absolutely nuts,
absolutely nuts. And then the CEO of Worthpoint was there
and he said, oh, yeah, I had a sighting my
son and I you know, blah blah blah and all
this stuff. But it's kind of like these were younger
girls that say, you guys are crazy. You don't hear
that was I don't know, five or six years ago.
You don't hear that as often now.
Speaker 3: You don't because the media is so full of this stuff,
especially how many years has ancient aliens on TV? You know,
I mean they've they've covered everything. All these kids, you know,
I work at a really large high school. Oh, these
kids all know this stuff. You can't tell them that
they know about it. They know about all this. So
they're growing up with this, they've got a basic understanding
of what's going on. They don't question it so much anymore.
So I think things are really changing. You know, I
don't tell people. I don't just go out there and
tell people what I do either. But if someone were
to come up to me and say, hey, did they
see you on TV the other day and something like, yeah,
you did, you know, and then they'll want to ask
about it. But it's the skeptics out there, like you know,
the people at the worthpoint situation, where they're going to
laugh at you and ridicule you, but wait until something
happens that they hear on the news. You're the first
person they're going to call and say, hey, what was that?
What was that that they saw on the sky the
other day? And you can say, oh, so now now
you want to know about that. Now you're interested in that. Yeah,
so they are. But it's it's just really hard for
people to come out and say, yeah, I kind of
believe in that. But I think it's just because they
don't know much about it. Yeah, if they don't know
a little bit about it, that's what piques their interest.
Speaker 1: Well, my real friends from long ago except me for
what the way I am and everything. So I have
this my very best friend name John. He was out
here in Sedona and he got all excited because you know,
he's not at all into the UFO topic, but he
got all excited because he was thinking he was seeing
a UFO and he's like taking pictures and like, oh
my god and all this. Found out it was starlink.
Speaker 3: Yeah, oh yeah, Well that's a great one though, that
I saw that for the first time. I was up
at the Grand Canyon actually and saw it fly over
so super dark skies.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: And everyone else I know had seen it already except
for me, you know. I mean, we've covered millions of
reports on it because move On gets reports on starlink
all the time. Yeah, but I had not seen it,
And when I finally did, I'm like, wow, that's the
coolest thing I've ever seen.
Speaker 1: I did film it. It's funny because the two major
sightings I've had in my life. One was a fireball
that was incredible, really incredible, and then the next thing
was my uf OH thing, both in the hot tub
and then last year or the year before in my
hot tub in South Carolina and watching starlink over I
did film it. I did film it. It was crazy
because it's like one thing after another after another after another,
but I knew what it was. Now, have you ever
had this will end on this. Have you ever had
a UFO sighting? Yes, okay, let's.
Speaker 3: From my own backyard, not in the hot tub. But
I was just separately late one night, couldn't sleep, decided
to walk outside and just kind of look around and
I saw this triangle of stars that I knew didn't
belong there, and it was a perfect triangle. And so
I'm watching it and as I'm watching it, one of
them just started moving in went all the way around
the sky, all the way around disappeared.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 3: I immediately went back to where I saw that, and
another one did the same thing, but went around the
sky this way. And I'm like, okay, Stacy, you're involved
with Moufon. You know that was anomalist. Perhaps you should
report that in, you know. So I did, and actually
I think I assigned Marian rob to that case. And
she thought I was doing that to like test her
in some way. You know, why are you thicking on me?
And I'm like, I'm not, you know, but great friends,
you can we can discuss this. You know. So, yeah,
I saw a couple of things from my own backyard,
just out there randomly looking up at the sky, and
I think that's when a lot of things happened. Other
than if you have a dog and you smoke cigarettes, yes,
and the dog and having a smoke, then you see
something every time.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's when they say the biggest you know, reports
come from either people smoking or.
Speaker 3: It all starts out with well, I was walking the
dog and having smoke when I saw yea, you know so, yeah,
it happens a lot.
Speaker 1: Excellent, So thanks so much, Stacy. It's always a pleasure
to speak with you. Thanks for a lot of fun.
Good yea, thank you