WEBVTT

1
00:00:10.519 --> 00:00:13.919
<v Speaker 1>Hi, and welcome back to The Unseen Podcast, a podcast

2
00:00:13.960 --> 00:00:20.359
<v Speaker 1>dedicated to missing people, unresolved cases, and UK true crime. Today,

3
00:00:20.399 --> 00:00:23.039
<v Speaker 1>we're going to be looking into the nineteen ninety five

4
00:00:23.160 --> 00:00:26.519
<v Speaker 1>murder of fifty two year old Joy Heuer in Walthamstow.

5
00:00:27.920 --> 00:00:31.120
<v Speaker 1>This was a tragic and mysterious case which still very

6
00:00:31.160 --> 00:00:37.159
<v Speaker 1>sadly remains unsolved despite nearly thirty years going by. This

7
00:00:37.240 --> 00:00:40.880
<v Speaker 1>episode contains descriptions that some listeners may find distressing, so

8
00:00:41.039 --> 00:00:46.719
<v Speaker 1>listener discretion is advised. Walthamstowe is a town in East

9
00:00:46.759 --> 00:00:50.439
<v Speaker 1>London which is known today as a bustling and cultural center,

10
00:00:50.880 --> 00:00:54.240
<v Speaker 1>famous for the William Morris Gallery and its many shops

11
00:00:54.320 --> 00:00:59.359
<v Speaker 1>and public transport links into central London. It retains much

12
00:00:59.399 --> 00:01:03.280
<v Speaker 1>of its history charm while also feeling like part of

13
00:01:03.320 --> 00:01:07.760
<v Speaker 1>a big city. In nineteen ninety five, fifty two year

14
00:01:07.799 --> 00:01:11.200
<v Speaker 1>old Joy Hewer lived in Walthamstow in a flat within

15
00:01:11.239 --> 00:01:16.560
<v Speaker 1>a complex named Saint David's Court. Around fifty five other

16
00:01:16.640 --> 00:01:20.599
<v Speaker 1>people lived there during that time. Joy was a well

17
00:01:20.640 --> 00:01:23.599
<v Speaker 1>known resident, living in a flat on the sixth floor.

18
00:01:24.640 --> 00:01:28.280
<v Speaker 1>She was known for being kind, smiley and extremely welcoming.

19
00:01:29.920 --> 00:01:32.319
<v Speaker 1>Joy had grown up in the area and lived alone

20
00:01:32.359 --> 00:01:36.319
<v Speaker 1>in her flat. Despite the fact that she lived alone,

21
00:01:36.400 --> 00:01:39.799
<v Speaker 1>it was known that she was not lonely. She spoke

22
00:01:39.879 --> 00:01:42.879
<v Speaker 1>to her parents often, as well as her siblings and

23
00:01:42.959 --> 00:01:47.560
<v Speaker 1>her nieces and nephews. She was friendly and warm, and

24
00:01:47.640 --> 00:01:50.920
<v Speaker 1>her neighbors loved speaking with her and seeing her around.

25
00:01:52.519 --> 00:01:55.799
<v Speaker 1>One of her neighbors described her as quote she was

26
00:01:55.840 --> 00:01:59.040
<v Speaker 1>one of the loveliest people living here. She was always

27
00:01:59.079 --> 00:02:04.719
<v Speaker 1>smiling and helping elderly people. Joi had been a primary

28
00:02:04.719 --> 00:02:09.039
<v Speaker 1>school teacher at the local school, Woodhouse Primary. She was

29
00:02:09.120 --> 00:02:11.840
<v Speaker 1>known as a kind and diligent teacher who cared a

30
00:02:11.879 --> 00:02:16.919
<v Speaker 1>lot about the children in her care. In nineteen ninety,

31
00:02:17.080 --> 00:02:20.599
<v Speaker 1>Joy had decided to retire early from her job, and

32
00:02:20.680 --> 00:02:23.879
<v Speaker 1>since then she had devoted her whole life to volunteering.

33
00:02:25.360 --> 00:02:28.159
<v Speaker 1>She was a devout Christian who did everything she could

34
00:02:28.199 --> 00:02:33.560
<v Speaker 1>to help and support others. She volunteered at several churches

35
00:02:33.599 --> 00:02:37.439
<v Speaker 1>in the area. However, Saint Mary's in Walthamstow was one

36
00:02:37.479 --> 00:02:42.199
<v Speaker 1>that she visited most regularly. She would help by completing

37
00:02:42.240 --> 00:02:46.599
<v Speaker 1>general admin tasks, volunteering at the soup kitchen, and cleaning

38
00:02:46.639 --> 00:02:51.599
<v Speaker 1>the church. Joi was happy to help anyone she could,

39
00:02:51.879 --> 00:02:55.840
<v Speaker 1>and Reverend Paul butler from Saint Mary's later stated that

40
00:02:55.919 --> 00:02:59.520
<v Speaker 1>when he became reverend in nineteen ninety four, Joi was

41
00:02:59.560 --> 00:03:02.400
<v Speaker 1>the first person to welcome him to the area and

42
00:03:02.520 --> 00:03:04.960
<v Speaker 1>explain how much she was happy that he was there.

43
00:03:06.599 --> 00:03:09.560
<v Speaker 1>This just exemplifies who she was as a person and

44
00:03:09.639 --> 00:03:14.159
<v Speaker 1>her caring and supportive nature. It was known that Joy

45
00:03:14.319 --> 00:03:18.240
<v Speaker 1>also volunteered at the London Healing Mission, and this was

46
00:03:18.280 --> 00:03:21.520
<v Speaker 1>to help homeless people and those that may be drug dependent.

47
00:03:23.080 --> 00:03:26.759
<v Speaker 1>She attended meetings at the mission on Tuesdays and Thursdays,

48
00:03:29.360 --> 00:03:32.879
<v Speaker 1>so on Tuesday, the seventeenth of October nineteen ninety five,

49
00:03:33.759 --> 00:03:36.840
<v Speaker 1>Joy followed her usual routine of heading down for the

50
00:03:36.919 --> 00:03:40.680
<v Speaker 1>meeting at the mission. She was there until around three

51
00:03:40.840 --> 00:03:43.800
<v Speaker 1>thirty pm, when a colleague of hers saw her leaving

52
00:03:43.840 --> 00:03:47.479
<v Speaker 1>for the day. It was then known that Joy visited

53
00:03:47.520 --> 00:03:51.680
<v Speaker 1>the chemist close to her home around five fifty pm.

54
00:03:52.400 --> 00:03:55.599
<v Speaker 1>She then headed straight home to Saint David's Court, arriving

55
00:03:55.639 --> 00:04:00.000
<v Speaker 1>around ten minutes later. On her way in, she saw

56
00:04:00.120 --> 00:04:04.840
<v Speaker 1>another resident and spoke to them. Joy stayed in that

57
00:04:05.000 --> 00:04:07.360
<v Speaker 1>night and it's known that she spoke to several people

58
00:04:07.360 --> 00:04:11.759
<v Speaker 1>on the phone that evening. At around nine forty pm,

59
00:04:11.879 --> 00:04:14.840
<v Speaker 1>she phoned her brother. However, he wasn't in, and she

60
00:04:14.919 --> 00:04:18.560
<v Speaker 1>spoke to her nephew instead, asking him to tell his

61
00:04:18.680 --> 00:04:21.000
<v Speaker 1>dad to wring her back and that she was in

62
00:04:21.079 --> 00:04:27.720
<v Speaker 1>all evening, she told him it wasn't urgent. This seemed

63
00:04:27.759 --> 00:04:30.399
<v Speaker 1>like a normal evening for Joy, who enjoyed speaking to

64
00:04:30.439 --> 00:04:36.279
<v Speaker 1>people on the phone and socializing. At around ten thirty pm,

65
00:04:36.560 --> 00:04:39.839
<v Speaker 1>the couple who lived two floors below Joy were woken

66
00:04:39.920 --> 00:04:42.600
<v Speaker 1>by some very loud banging noises that they could hear

67
00:04:42.639 --> 00:04:46.600
<v Speaker 1>through the ceiling. One of the residents of the flat

68
00:04:46.680 --> 00:04:49.720
<v Speaker 1>said that she was concerned as the flat directly above

69
00:04:49.759 --> 00:04:53.279
<v Speaker 1>them was empty at that time and she was worried

70
00:04:53.279 --> 00:04:56.360
<v Speaker 1>that it was being burgled as the bangs were that loud.

71
00:04:58.199 --> 00:05:01.279
<v Speaker 1>She stated they did stop and she lay back in bed.

72
00:05:02.639 --> 00:05:05.839
<v Speaker 1>Around ten minutes later, though, she then heard footsteps which

73
00:05:05.839 --> 00:05:10.399
<v Speaker 1>she described as heavy. They were running down the communal staircase.

74
00:05:11.439 --> 00:05:15.319
<v Speaker 1>It then went quiet. This was an unusual occurrence at

75
00:05:15.360 --> 00:05:21.920
<v Speaker 1>Saint David's Court and did concern her. At around eleven

76
00:05:22.000 --> 00:05:25.480
<v Speaker 1>eighteen pm that same evening, a nine nine nine call

77
00:05:25.639 --> 00:05:29.399
<v Speaker 1>was received. It was later found that this call had

78
00:05:29.439 --> 00:05:32.879
<v Speaker 1>been made from a phone box on Fullburn Road, close

79
00:05:32.920 --> 00:05:37.360
<v Speaker 1>to Saint David's Court. The caller told the operator that

80
00:05:37.399 --> 00:05:39.800
<v Speaker 1>he had been driving past the flats when he noticed

81
00:05:39.839 --> 00:05:43.199
<v Speaker 1>some flames and smoke coming out from one of the floors.

82
00:05:44.240 --> 00:05:46.199
<v Speaker 1>He said he couldn't work out which floor it was

83
00:05:46.199 --> 00:05:49.959
<v Speaker 1>coming from, and when he was asked whereabouts he was located,

84
00:05:50.160 --> 00:05:53.759
<v Speaker 1>he wasn't sure what street he was on. He's heard

85
00:05:53.759 --> 00:05:56.079
<v Speaker 1>on the phone call asking someone who was stood at

86
00:05:56.079 --> 00:06:00.000
<v Speaker 1>the bus stop which road they were on. He eventually

87
00:06:00.120 --> 00:06:02.079
<v Speaker 1>said that they were on the junction of Wood Street

88
00:06:02.240 --> 00:06:07.839
<v Speaker 1>near Walthamstow Town Hall. Fire services were dispatched to Saint

89
00:06:07.920 --> 00:06:10.879
<v Speaker 1>David's Court, where they noted that smoke had started to

90
00:06:10.920 --> 00:06:14.160
<v Speaker 1>fill the lobby and they quickly established that it was

91
00:06:14.160 --> 00:06:18.439
<v Speaker 1>coming from a flat on the sixth floor. The flat

92
00:06:18.519 --> 00:06:23.240
<v Speaker 1>belonged to Joi Heuer. When they entered, they discovered two

93
00:06:23.279 --> 00:06:27.519
<v Speaker 1>separate fires. One was located in the lounge area and

94
00:06:27.560 --> 00:06:33.079
<v Speaker 1>one was in the bedroom. These fires were quite quickly extinguished. However,

95
00:06:33.160 --> 00:06:37.360
<v Speaker 1>when they were they made a discovery they had found

96
00:06:37.439 --> 00:06:42.360
<v Speaker 1>Joy's body. It quickly became apparent that Joi had not

97
00:06:42.399 --> 00:06:44.759
<v Speaker 1>passed away as a result of the fire, and the

98
00:06:44.800 --> 00:06:50.439
<v Speaker 1>post martem established that Joi had actually been stabbed in addition,

99
00:06:50.639 --> 00:06:55.480
<v Speaker 1>she had also been sexually assaulted. It would appear that

100
00:06:55.519 --> 00:06:58.399
<v Speaker 1>the fires had been set after the attack and the

101
00:06:58.480 --> 00:07:02.160
<v Speaker 1>murder had taken place, and it's been speculated that this

102
00:07:02.240 --> 00:07:05.360
<v Speaker 1>had possibly been as a way to remove forensic evidence

103
00:07:05.399 --> 00:07:10.079
<v Speaker 1>from the scene. Police began to look into how someone

104
00:07:10.079 --> 00:07:13.959
<v Speaker 1>could have got into the flat that night. Joi was

105
00:07:14.000 --> 00:07:16.480
<v Speaker 1>known to be a cautious person who cared about her

106
00:07:16.519 --> 00:07:20.160
<v Speaker 1>own personal safety. She wasn't someone who would have just

107
00:07:20.240 --> 00:07:24.000
<v Speaker 1>let a stranger into her home, and her flat had

108
00:07:24.000 --> 00:07:27.000
<v Speaker 1>a chain link lock as well as a peephole that

109
00:07:27.160 --> 00:07:31.439
<v Speaker 1>was installed in her door. There appeared, however, to be

110
00:07:31.519 --> 00:07:34.560
<v Speaker 1>no forced entry at the home, and Joi was found

111
00:07:34.600 --> 00:07:38.319
<v Speaker 1>wearing her NightWare, meaning that she'd probably been in bed

112
00:07:38.319 --> 00:07:43.079
<v Speaker 1>at the time that the attacker entered her home. Had

113
00:07:43.079 --> 00:07:46.160
<v Speaker 1>she let someone into her home? Had this been a

114
00:07:46.199 --> 00:07:58.279
<v Speaker 1>stranger or someone she knew. Police reportedly could find no

115
00:07:58.360 --> 00:08:01.199
<v Speaker 1>evidence that anything was missing from the home, and they

116
00:08:01.240 --> 00:08:05.399
<v Speaker 1>didn't find the murder weapon there either. There was one

117
00:08:05.480 --> 00:08:10.079
<v Speaker 1>intriguing piece of evidence, though, Police recovered two used coffee

118
00:08:10.079 --> 00:08:13.000
<v Speaker 1>cups from the home, which could suggest that someone had

119
00:08:13.079 --> 00:08:18.399
<v Speaker 1>visited Joy that night. Who was this and why had

120
00:08:18.439 --> 00:08:23.199
<v Speaker 1>Joi let them into her home. Police set about trying

121
00:08:23.199 --> 00:08:25.519
<v Speaker 1>to speak to everyone that knew Joy and might be

122
00:08:25.519 --> 00:08:27.800
<v Speaker 1>able to shed some light on who this could have been.

123
00:08:29.560 --> 00:08:33.000
<v Speaker 1>Everyone who knew her spoke of her as a kind, understanding,

124
00:08:33.159 --> 00:08:36.039
<v Speaker 1>and caring woman who only wanted to help other people.

125
00:08:37.960 --> 00:08:40.519
<v Speaker 1>Police could find no one who had any reason to

126
00:08:40.559 --> 00:08:43.320
<v Speaker 1>harm Joy, and her timeline of that day was quite

127
00:08:43.320 --> 00:08:46.240
<v Speaker 1>easy to establish, given that she'd been at the mission

128
00:08:46.320 --> 00:08:48.600
<v Speaker 1>for most of the day and had spoken to people

129
00:08:48.639 --> 00:08:52.600
<v Speaker 1>on the phone for most of the evening. There was

130
00:08:52.639 --> 00:08:55.320
<v Speaker 1>a period of time between three point thirty and five

131
00:08:55.480 --> 00:08:59.879
<v Speaker 1>fifty pm where Joi was unaccounted for. However, it's unclear

132
00:09:00.120 --> 00:09:04.440
<v Speaker 1>this time was important to the murder. The time of

133
00:09:04.480 --> 00:09:07.039
<v Speaker 1>the murder seemed to coincide with the bangs heard by

134
00:09:07.039 --> 00:09:11.879
<v Speaker 1>the downstairs neighbors and the footsteps on the stairs, and

135
00:09:11.919 --> 00:09:14.440
<v Speaker 1>this was only forty five minutes after speaking to her

136
00:09:14.519 --> 00:09:18.559
<v Speaker 1>nephew on the phone. As well as speaking to people

137
00:09:18.600 --> 00:09:21.679
<v Speaker 1>who knew Joy personally, they also spoke to the residence

138
00:09:21.720 --> 00:09:25.159
<v Speaker 1>of Saint David's Courts and reviewed footage from the CCTV,

139
00:09:25.639 --> 00:09:30.159
<v Speaker 1>which was located at the entrance. Police knew that whoever

140
00:09:30.240 --> 00:09:32.799
<v Speaker 1>let the killer into the building had done so through

141
00:09:32.840 --> 00:09:37.480
<v Speaker 1>the two way into commsystem. None of the residents reported

142
00:09:37.519 --> 00:09:39.720
<v Speaker 1>that they had let an unknown man into the building,

143
00:09:40.440 --> 00:09:43.159
<v Speaker 1>and most other people were found to be accounted for

144
00:09:43.320 --> 00:09:47.200
<v Speaker 1>and had a reason to be in the building that day.

145
00:09:48.120 --> 00:09:50.360
<v Speaker 1>There were a couple of people who police wanted to

146
00:09:50.399 --> 00:09:53.559
<v Speaker 1>speak to, though A man had been seen in the

147
00:09:53.559 --> 00:09:58.039
<v Speaker 1>building at six thirty five pm. This man had reportedly

148
00:09:58.080 --> 00:10:00.559
<v Speaker 1>been stood by the lifts and had been spotted by

149
00:10:00.559 --> 00:10:02.960
<v Speaker 1>a couple who were moving in and they'd had a

150
00:10:03.039 --> 00:10:07.679
<v Speaker 1>chat with him. He was described as white, well spoken,

151
00:10:07.840 --> 00:10:10.519
<v Speaker 1>with a boyish face, and was around five feet seven

152
00:10:10.559 --> 00:10:14.480
<v Speaker 1>inches tall. He was stated that this man was not

153
00:10:14.519 --> 00:10:18.000
<v Speaker 1>a suspect, but they wanted to speak to him, identify

154
00:10:18.159 --> 00:10:23.039
<v Speaker 1>him and rule him out. A crime Watch reconstruction was

155
00:10:23.080 --> 00:10:26.000
<v Speaker 1>shown on TV to try and drum up leads, and

156
00:10:26.039 --> 00:10:30.879
<v Speaker 1>an e fit of this man was created. Another lead

157
00:10:30.960 --> 00:10:33.279
<v Speaker 1>that police wanted to follow up with was the man

158
00:10:33.320 --> 00:10:37.799
<v Speaker 1>who'd called in the fire at eleven eighteen. They knew

159
00:10:37.799 --> 00:10:39.559
<v Speaker 1>that it had been made from a phone box on

160
00:10:39.639 --> 00:10:42.399
<v Speaker 1>Fulburn Road, and they knew that he had asked someone

161
00:10:42.440 --> 00:10:46.200
<v Speaker 1>at a bus stop what the road name was. They

162
00:10:46.200 --> 00:10:48.519
<v Speaker 1>were trying to locate both of these men in the

163
00:10:48.519 --> 00:10:52.639
<v Speaker 1>hope that they could help them with the investigation. They

164
00:10:52.679 --> 00:10:54.559
<v Speaker 1>published the nine to nine to nine call on the

165
00:10:54.559 --> 00:10:59.720
<v Speaker 1>Crime Watch episode in case someone could identify the voice.

166
00:11:00.600 --> 00:11:03.600
<v Speaker 1>Another significantly that police wanted to follow up with was

167
00:11:03.600 --> 00:11:06.480
<v Speaker 1>a report from a witness who was driving past Saint

168
00:11:06.559 --> 00:11:09.600
<v Speaker 1>David's Court when a man sprinted out of the flats

169
00:11:09.639 --> 00:11:13.320
<v Speaker 1>and ran across the road, causing the driver to stop suddenly.

170
00:11:15.120 --> 00:11:18.080
<v Speaker 1>This man was described as black and six feet four

171
00:11:18.120 --> 00:11:22.120
<v Speaker 1>inches tall. It was unclear if this man had anything

172
00:11:22.159 --> 00:11:24.639
<v Speaker 1>to do with the crime, but if he did, then

173
00:11:24.679 --> 00:11:28.279
<v Speaker 1>he was not caught on CCTV entering the building at

174
00:11:28.320 --> 00:11:34.679
<v Speaker 1>any point. The police did have one CCTV image of

175
00:11:34.720 --> 00:11:38.519
<v Speaker 1>someone who who were very interested in speaking to. It

176
00:11:38.679 --> 00:11:41.360
<v Speaker 1>was someone who was also unaccounted for and the police

177
00:11:41.360 --> 00:11:45.960
<v Speaker 1>could not identify. This man also entered at a crucial

178
00:11:46.039 --> 00:11:50.440
<v Speaker 1>time in the known timeline. He was thirty to forty

179
00:11:50.519 --> 00:11:53.480
<v Speaker 1>years old, was white, and was seen wearing a light

180
00:11:53.559 --> 00:11:58.039
<v Speaker 1>colored jacket. He entered at around ten thirty p m.

181
00:11:59.799 --> 00:12:04.120
<v Speaker 1>The CCTV image was grainy and difficult to make out. However,

182
00:12:04.240 --> 00:12:07.279
<v Speaker 1>it was hoped and is still hoped, that somebody might

183
00:12:07.360 --> 00:12:13.279
<v Speaker 1>know something. This information was all important, but who these

184
00:12:13.320 --> 00:12:17.879
<v Speaker 1>people were was difficult to ascertain. Despite the appeals that

185
00:12:17.919 --> 00:12:20.559
<v Speaker 1>took place at the time and the Crime Watch episode,

186
00:12:20.799 --> 00:12:25.279
<v Speaker 1>information was not forthcoming in the case. It proved difficult

187
00:12:25.320 --> 00:12:28.159
<v Speaker 1>to find out any new information, and those that knew

188
00:12:28.240 --> 00:12:32.279
<v Speaker 1>Joy could not imagine who would have wanted to harm her.

189
00:12:33.120 --> 00:12:35.080
<v Speaker 1>This is the way that the case seemed to stay,

190
00:12:35.120 --> 00:12:41.759
<v Speaker 1>with little movement or progress being published. Twenty fifteen marked

191
00:12:41.759 --> 00:12:44.799
<v Speaker 1>the twenty year anniversary of the case and the Metropolitan

192
00:12:44.840 --> 00:12:52.080
<v Speaker 1>Police appealed for information. Detective Inspector Susan Stansfield urged anyone

193
00:12:52.120 --> 00:12:57.080
<v Speaker 1>who hadn't come forward before to do so now. Her

194
00:12:57.120 --> 00:13:01.080
<v Speaker 1>sister Peggy also spoke in a BBC article. She said

195
00:13:01.080 --> 00:13:04.559
<v Speaker 1>she was no harm to anyone and stated we've never

196
00:13:04.600 --> 00:13:07.320
<v Speaker 1>forgotten the moment that we were told she'd been murdered.

197
00:13:08.000 --> 00:13:11.240
<v Speaker 1>It will never make any sense to us. She lived

198
00:13:11.279 --> 00:13:14.320
<v Speaker 1>a quiet and peaceful life which was totally at odds

199
00:13:14.360 --> 00:13:19.960
<v Speaker 1>with her last terrifying moments. There was another Crime Watch

200
00:13:19.960 --> 00:13:23.480
<v Speaker 1>appeal shown in twenty fifteen in the hope that information

201
00:13:23.559 --> 00:13:27.879
<v Speaker 1>would come forward. It's reported that there's a twenty thousand

202
00:13:27.879 --> 00:13:32.000
<v Speaker 1>pound reward available for anyone with information leading to a conviction.

203
00:13:34.279 --> 00:13:36.919
<v Speaker 1>It's clear that Joy's family have continued to appeal for

204
00:13:36.960 --> 00:13:41.600
<v Speaker 1>information and are dedicated to finding the killer. Joi has

205
00:13:41.639 --> 00:13:44.120
<v Speaker 1>not had justice and she deserves it as well as

206
00:13:44.120 --> 00:13:48.600
<v Speaker 1>her family who deserve answers. It's now coming up to

207
00:13:48.720 --> 00:13:51.960
<v Speaker 1>thirty years since it happened, so if you do know

208
00:13:52.039 --> 00:13:56.120
<v Speaker 1>anything about Joi Huer's murder, please contact the Metropolitan Police

209
00:13:56.240 --> 00:14:01.240
<v Speaker 1>on one oh one. Thank you for listening to today's episode.

210
00:14:01.279 --> 00:14:03.639
<v Speaker 1>If you'd like to support the podcast further, then you

211
00:14:03.679 --> 00:14:06.799
<v Speaker 1>can on Patreon and contribute to exclusive polls to get

212
00:14:06.840 --> 00:14:10.840
<v Speaker 1>extra bonus episodes every month. You can also get access

213
00:14:10.879 --> 00:14:14.039
<v Speaker 1>to new episodes early in ad free. You can use

214
00:14:14.039 --> 00:14:16.080
<v Speaker 1>the link in the show notes to visit Patreon and

215
00:14:16.120 --> 00:14:19.080
<v Speaker 1>see what we offer. You can also support us by

216
00:14:19.120 --> 00:14:23.120
<v Speaker 1>reviewing the podcast wherever you listen, including Spotify, and also

217
00:14:23.240 --> 00:14:27.039
<v Speaker 1>just share the episodes. You can subscribe on YouTube and

218
00:14:27.080 --> 00:14:31.279
<v Speaker 1>follow us on social media as our ways. I'm Caprice

219
00:14:31.440 --> 00:15:01.919
<v Speaker 1>and this has been unseen the