WEBVTT 1 00:00:12.880 --> 00:00:14.960 Welcome to Destiny. 2 00:00:16.000 --> 00:00:18.320 Now here's your host, Cliff Dunning. 3 00:00:20.600 --> 00:00:26.079 You ever wonder what makes a company success popular that 4 00:00:26.120 --> 00:00:29.519 produces products or services that you're always wanting to purchase 5 00:00:29.640 --> 00:00:33.359 or be a part of, or use. Our discussion today 6 00:00:33.640 --> 00:00:39.079 on Destiny has to do with spiritually intelligent leadership. This 7 00:00:39.159 --> 00:00:42.799 is a new topic that's to come up and it 8 00:00:42.920 --> 00:00:46.520 follows what we think. What my guest today thinks is 9 00:00:46.640 --> 00:00:52.000 how our ancestors acted when they were in harmony with nature, 10 00:00:52.119 --> 00:00:57.000 with the cosmos and so on. And we're able to 11 00:00:57.039 --> 00:01:01.359 treat their workers, their labor for with a level of 12 00:01:02.119 --> 00:01:07.799 care and consciousness that not only improved the work environment 13 00:01:08.400 --> 00:01:13.120 but made the work more satisfactory to the employee. Hey, 14 00:01:13.159 --> 00:01:16.000 this is Cliff, your host of Destiny, and today we're 15 00:01:16.040 --> 00:01:20.719 talking about tools for transformation. But on a business side, 16 00:01:21.200 --> 00:01:26.480 we're speaking to a former CEO of a Silicon Valley company. 17 00:01:27.120 --> 00:01:29.799 And here in California, the Silicon Valley is thought of 18 00:01:29.920 --> 00:01:36.239 to be the incubator for revolutionary ideas, products, services, and 19 00:01:36.400 --> 00:01:42.079 the production of companies like Google, Yahoo, Apple, Computer and 20 00:01:42.159 --> 00:01:48.079 so on. And I actually worked for PayPal for many years, 21 00:01:48.519 --> 00:01:50.959 which used to be owned by Elon Musk and others. 22 00:01:51.719 --> 00:01:54.719 And I worked for Microsoft, and I worked for Apple 23 00:01:54.760 --> 00:02:00.719 Computer and during the dot com craze, who could write 24 00:02:00.920 --> 00:02:04.200 a proposal on a napkin and literally get funded the 25 00:02:04.239 --> 00:02:09.159 next day. It was so incredibly nutty. But things have 26 00:02:09.319 --> 00:02:14.000 changed since then. But there's still are companies, tech companies 27 00:02:14.000 --> 00:02:19.159 that are incubated and then funded by venture capitalists companies. 28 00:02:20.360 --> 00:02:23.240 And what we're going to learn about today is when 29 00:02:23.319 --> 00:02:26.479 you launch a tech company, you have to have a 30 00:02:26.520 --> 00:02:31.680 lot in place otherwise known as spiritually intelligent leadership. And 31 00:02:31.719 --> 00:02:36.039 when we say spiritual, we're talking about some of the 32 00:02:36.080 --> 00:02:45.280 fundamentals of human decency, work, environment, productivity, and care when 33 00:02:45.280 --> 00:02:49.360 you're in an office now. I although I worked in 34 00:02:49.400 --> 00:02:53.520 many various companies for years, I was never one to 35 00:02:53.599 --> 00:02:57.919 work for big corporations. In fact, when I worked with PayPal, 36 00:02:58.759 --> 00:03:02.479 there were a couple of thousand employees and what they 37 00:03:02.599 --> 00:03:05.240 used to call what they still call campuses. These are 38 00:03:06.039 --> 00:03:10.199 large multi story buildings and each of them had their 39 00:03:10.240 --> 00:03:18.000 own cafeteria, recreational room. In some cases they had places 40 00:03:18.000 --> 00:03:21.240 where you can get your get a massage, you can 41 00:03:21.319 --> 00:03:25.680 get your shoes, or you're excuse me, your clothing pressed, 42 00:03:26.240 --> 00:03:29.439 dry cleaned. I guess you could call it, but those 43 00:03:29.520 --> 00:03:33.719 days are not the same. People companies don't spend that 44 00:03:33.759 --> 00:03:36.479 kind of money anymore. Although I have a friend that 45 00:03:36.639 --> 00:03:40.400 still works with Google. He's been there now, Oh it's 46 00:03:40.479 --> 00:03:45.520 going on fifteen years, and they still have meals for free, 47 00:03:45.599 --> 00:03:51.919 and they still have lounge areas and sleeping areas and 48 00:03:52.039 --> 00:03:56.960 all kinds of really cool giveaways, all kinds of really 49 00:03:56.960 --> 00:04:04.240 cool benefits that are just make the job much more creative, 50 00:04:04.240 --> 00:04:07.639 I guess, but the payoffs so that they expect a 51 00:04:07.680 --> 00:04:09.479 lot more out of it. You need to spend longer 52 00:04:09.479 --> 00:04:12.840 hours there. But what we're going to learn today is 53 00:04:13.400 --> 00:04:20.680 that as more of the future CEOs and business administrators 54 00:04:20.720 --> 00:04:27.879 are trained in these spirit spiritually intelligent leadership roles, they 55 00:04:27.959 --> 00:04:34.720 are looking at a holistic type of company where again 56 00:04:35.079 --> 00:04:38.920 the employees are treated with a great deal work respect, 57 00:04:39.480 --> 00:04:46.079 they are inspired to do more creative work. And what's 58 00:04:46.120 --> 00:04:48.959 happening is we're going to see a whole different level 59 00:04:49.079 --> 00:04:57.040 of manufacturing and product development and services here in the 60 00:04:57.120 --> 00:05:01.000 United States that are the future. And you'll hear a 61 00:05:01.040 --> 00:05:04.000 little bit about what we can expect in the coming 62 00:05:04.120 --> 00:05:12.560 decades using spiritual intelligent leadership. So today's program is spiritually 63 00:05:12.600 --> 00:05:21.399 intelligent leadership, and my guest is Yosi amram Hey. The 64 00:05:21.399 --> 00:05:24.879 Earth Angeance final tour of the year is held in 65 00:05:24.959 --> 00:05:27.439 Guatemala this year, and people were wondering, well, why are 66 00:05:27.519 --> 00:05:30.399 you just going to Mexico. What has happened in Mexico 67 00:05:30.560 --> 00:05:35.000 is that they have outlawed ceremony by shaman, by native people. 68 00:05:35.639 --> 00:05:39.560 Anything to do with ritual is not allowed anymore. They've 69 00:05:39.560 --> 00:05:43.279 also reduced the ability to climb, to touch, to integrate 70 00:05:43.920 --> 00:05:48.240 with the pyramids, with the temples, with the archaeological parks. 71 00:05:48.879 --> 00:05:52.319 And we are moving to Guatemala for this final tour 72 00:05:53.000 --> 00:05:55.680 December first of the twelfth and I'll tell you why. 73 00:05:56.079 --> 00:05:59.959 We are allowed by the Guatemala government and the archaeological 74 00:06:00.240 --> 00:06:07.040 community to connect, to sit, to meditate, and to activate 75 00:06:07.480 --> 00:06:12.480 these pyramids. This tour is really for you, to give 76 00:06:12.480 --> 00:06:17.079 you a chance to integrate, to meditate, and to work 77 00:06:17.120 --> 00:06:22.920 with these sacred energies. This tour features archaeologists, features shaman, 78 00:06:23.600 --> 00:06:29.240 features research investigators, and it offers you an opportunity to 79 00:06:29.279 --> 00:06:32.759 climb the pyramids. For all the details. For more information, 80 00:06:32.920 --> 00:06:36.000 go to Earth Ancients dot com forward slash tour and 81 00:06:36.120 --> 00:06:40.000 check it out. This is really a very rare and 82 00:06:40.079 --> 00:06:44.920 wonderful opportunity to connect with the ancient Mayan pyramids. Come 83 00:06:44.920 --> 00:06:48.879 out and join us Earth Ancients, dot Com forward slash 84 00:06:49.120 --> 00:07:30.160 tours area. I have worked in the Silicon Valley, but 85 00:07:30.240 --> 00:07:34.000 we've never had a guest talk about corporate America before 86 00:07:34.839 --> 00:07:39.839 and the spiritual nature of a company, and if this 87 00:07:39.920 --> 00:07:44.639 is even possible. My guest is Yo c Amram. He 88 00:07:44.879 --> 00:07:49.480 is a former CEO. He's now a clinical psychologist who 89 00:07:49.560 --> 00:07:55.920 specializes in CEO leadership and his story is fascinating. The 90 00:07:55.920 --> 00:08:00.079 book we're talking about is Spiritually Intelligent Leadership, How to 91 00:08:00.120 --> 00:08:05.720 Inspire by being Inspired, and this is a good one. 92 00:08:05.920 --> 00:08:09.680 I think it's a good fit for Destiny, and we're 93 00:08:09.680 --> 00:08:15.040 going to learn all about building a company in Silicon 94 00:08:15.120 --> 00:08:17.680 Valley and some of the spiritual aspects that can go 95 00:08:17.720 --> 00:08:22.120 along with it. So, Hey, Yoshi, welcome to Destiny. Great 96 00:08:22.120 --> 00:08:22.519 to see you. 97 00:08:23.199 --> 00:08:26.720 Thank you, Cliff, Cliff, thank you. I'm delighted. Then, thanks 98 00:08:26.759 --> 00:08:30.079 for your kind introductory words. And let's see if we 99 00:08:30.160 --> 00:08:32.960 can get inspired today and inspire each other. 100 00:08:34.080 --> 00:08:37.039 Talk about your your upbringing. You open the book with 101 00:08:37.279 --> 00:08:44.159 your not only your childhood, but also the migration to America. 102 00:08:44.759 --> 00:08:47.440 What was the inspiration and you don't really This is 103 00:08:47.480 --> 00:08:50.360 interesting because in the book you don't really say why 104 00:08:50.399 --> 00:08:53.320 you wanted to come to America other than and my 105 00:08:53.519 --> 00:08:57.279 thinking after reading part of the book, you wanted to 106 00:08:57.440 --> 00:09:00.039 have the American dream. You wanted to be able to 107 00:09:00.879 --> 00:09:05.559 launch yourself in a more spectacular method than perhaps staying 108 00:09:05.639 --> 00:09:06.279 in Israel. 109 00:09:07.879 --> 00:09:11.360 Yeah, okay, great, I'll try and answer that. So. Yeah, 110 00:09:11.360 --> 00:09:14.440 I was born and raised in Israel, and like all 111 00:09:14.600 --> 00:09:18.399 young men, I was drafted into the military in this 112 00:09:18.559 --> 00:09:23.240 crazy war torn part of the world. Luckily it was 113 00:09:23.399 --> 00:09:28.039 peaceful time and I was a math and science nerd kid. 114 00:09:28.200 --> 00:09:32.080 So now it's kind of pacifist in my leanings. But 115 00:09:32.200 --> 00:09:34.879 to my surprise, I had the fastest promotion record in 116 00:09:34.879 --> 00:09:38.720 the history of my regiment and got all these leadership awards. 117 00:09:39.120 --> 00:09:43.320 But despite excelling it, this command and control model, it 118 00:09:43.440 --> 00:09:48.000 really chafed it my soul. The pressure of the military. 119 00:09:48.039 --> 00:09:50.960 The command and control is necessary in battle. You don't 120 00:09:51.000 --> 00:09:53.440 have time to get into a conference room and do 121 00:09:53.519 --> 00:09:58.679 some whiteboarding and brainstorming. Someone has to call the shots 122 00:09:58.759 --> 00:10:03.360 and move in a coordinated fashion, just like you do 123 00:10:03.440 --> 00:10:07.399 on the football field. If you will so so and then. 124 00:10:07.480 --> 00:10:12.080 But the pressure creates a cohesive environment where people really 125 00:10:12.080 --> 00:10:14.879 care about each other and will give their lives because 126 00:10:15.000 --> 00:10:20.000 you have shared destiny to use your word. As a community, 127 00:10:20.039 --> 00:10:23.240 as a group of people, you're bonded together, but the 128 00:10:23.240 --> 00:10:28.200 individual is kind of suppressed. And I had the crazy 129 00:10:28.279 --> 00:10:31.639 idea of like, how do we build an organization that 130 00:10:31.879 --> 00:10:36.120 facilitates and supports the growth of the individual, letting them 131 00:10:36.240 --> 00:10:40.600 express their unique talents and gifts and grow and actualize 132 00:10:41.000 --> 00:10:46.960 and do that within a community in organizational settings. So 133 00:10:47.000 --> 00:10:51.399 that became my overarching dream. And so how was I 134 00:10:51.440 --> 00:10:53.320 going to do that? I was going to someday build 135 00:10:53.360 --> 00:10:57.279 a company, start a company. And these days Israel is 136 00:10:57.320 --> 00:11:01.399 known as startup nation, and there's all the ventures, et cetera. 137 00:11:01.440 --> 00:11:03.559 But in my days, which was just you know, a 138 00:11:03.639 --> 00:11:07.360 couple of years ago, No, it's been a lot more 139 00:11:07.399 --> 00:11:12.039 than that. You know that, none of that existed in Israel. 140 00:11:12.200 --> 00:11:15.720 So I came to the US. I went to MIT. 141 00:11:15.960 --> 00:11:19.200 I wanted to study engineering, develop the technology, and then 142 00:11:19.639 --> 00:11:24.879 maybe someday developed an idea to launch a startup. And 143 00:11:24.919 --> 00:11:26.200 that's kind of what happened. 144 00:11:26.559 --> 00:11:31.919 What was your emphasis at MIT? Was it engineering or 145 00:11:31.960 --> 00:11:32.600 something else? 146 00:11:32.960 --> 00:11:37.399 Yeah? I was electrical engineering, computer social engineering, right, Yeah, 147 00:11:37.799 --> 00:11:41.519 But quickly I realized that I didn't really enjoy I 148 00:11:41.639 --> 00:11:43.840 want to be in front of computer all the time, 149 00:11:44.360 --> 00:11:47.519 and so I went and got my MBA pretty quickly thereafter. 150 00:11:47.759 --> 00:11:52.480 And then I was interested in combining technology and business 151 00:11:52.480 --> 00:11:56.240 and understanding market needs and then what technology enabled you 152 00:11:56.320 --> 00:11:59.559 to do, and and that led to the formation of 153 00:11:59.600 --> 00:12:03.519 my first company called Properly Individual, Inc. It was all 154 00:12:03.559 --> 00:12:08.720 about the individual actualizing the individual, but within a team spirit, 155 00:12:08.799 --> 00:12:12.759 community environment. An Individual was the first company to do 156 00:12:12.879 --> 00:12:18.519 personalized newspapers interactive media. This is before the Internet, so 157 00:12:18.600 --> 00:12:21.240 you and some of the listeners may not remember the 158 00:12:21.320 --> 00:12:24.000 days of fax machine. So you would get on your 159 00:12:24.000 --> 00:12:27.320 fax machine every morning Cliff's Morning news, and then you 160 00:12:27.440 --> 00:12:31.720 told our software which articles were relevant or not. And 161 00:12:31.759 --> 00:12:34.720 based on that we had self learning and it would 162 00:12:34.720 --> 00:12:39.799 adapt itself, so it was personalized news. The name Individual 163 00:12:39.879 --> 00:12:42.960 stood for the idea of individualizing the news for the 164 00:12:43.080 --> 00:12:47.360 unique needs of each individual, but also in organizational philosophy 165 00:12:47.440 --> 00:12:52.200 that supported the growth and actualization of each individual employee. 166 00:12:52.559 --> 00:12:55.240 And it started on facts, then went to email, then 167 00:12:55.279 --> 00:12:58.440 went to the Internet when that happened. But I'll pause 168 00:12:58.519 --> 00:13:01.960 there because there's a whole ramatic chapter in that transition 169 00:13:02.159 --> 00:13:05.200 from facts to Internet and all of what that meant 170 00:13:05.200 --> 00:13:09.200 for me, because it was a huge threat to the business. 171 00:13:09.320 --> 00:13:12.080 And you know, part of the issue with Silicon Valley 172 00:13:12.159 --> 00:13:14.200 is you always ride the next wave, and then you 173 00:13:14.240 --> 00:13:18.480 get the new technology wave and it just disrupts and 174 00:13:18.600 --> 00:13:22.000 threatens your business. So that's kind of what happened. Facts became. 175 00:13:22.159 --> 00:13:28.080 You have an IPO, it for the individual LLC. Did 176 00:13:28.080 --> 00:13:31.159 you get funded so that you could begin growing it? 177 00:13:31.200 --> 00:13:32.120 I can't remember that. 178 00:13:33.200 --> 00:13:37.120 Yeah I got. I went an IPO, which is a 179 00:13:37.159 --> 00:13:40.720 public offering, but that was later. I funded it venture capital, 180 00:13:41.000 --> 00:13:44.399 And that was a whole journey to get venture capital 181 00:13:44.480 --> 00:13:47.679 because my idea at the time was pretty radical and 182 00:13:47.759 --> 00:13:53.000 I had no background in publishing and so on. But yeah, 183 00:13:53.000 --> 00:13:55.919 I got. I got it started with some angel industors 184 00:13:56.000 --> 00:14:01.360 and then institutional venture capitalists, the top vses in Silicon Valley, 185 00:14:01.559 --> 00:14:06.080 corporate partners like Microsoft, and major newspaper chains that were 186 00:14:06.120 --> 00:14:10.440 interested in the future of publishing. But then I had to. 187 00:14:10.559 --> 00:14:13.120 Let people know that you were working roughly eighty hours 188 00:14:13.159 --> 00:14:16.159 a week and you're write about this in your book 189 00:14:16.200 --> 00:14:19.039 and you had no life. Just spill it out, come on, 190 00:14:19.440 --> 00:14:19.840 give us. 191 00:14:19.919 --> 00:14:23.200 Yeah, and then I got kind of burned out and depressed, 192 00:14:23.320 --> 00:14:26.120 especially when the Internet came in and it was clear 193 00:14:26.200 --> 00:14:29.000 that on the information we were selling on a premium 194 00:14:29.039 --> 00:14:34.960 subscription basis on Facts was going to become free on 195 00:14:35.000 --> 00:14:37.759 the Internet. So, you know, we had a lot of 196 00:14:38.240 --> 00:14:41.000 revenue from the fax business and we knew it was 197 00:14:41.080 --> 00:14:44.039 going to die, and so we had to move to 198 00:14:44.200 --> 00:14:46.480 the Internet. But to do that, we had to make 199 00:14:46.519 --> 00:14:49.480 the information free and add supported, and that was going 200 00:14:49.519 --> 00:14:53.639 to cannibalize our facts business, and that was really scary. 201 00:14:53.720 --> 00:14:56.559 How to make that transition. I had a lot of pressure, 202 00:14:57.120 --> 00:15:00.240 tens of millions of dollars raised from the VC in 203 00:15:00.360 --> 00:15:05.320 my employees, so I got frozen with fear and I couldn't. 204 00:15:05.519 --> 00:15:08.679 My employees were like, Okay, what's our Internet strategy? How 205 00:15:08.720 --> 00:15:10.759 we're gonna move? This is the new world? And I 206 00:15:10.799 --> 00:15:14.639 was like, I don't know exactly. So I just wanted 207 00:15:14.639 --> 00:15:18.799 to hide and I took off. Oh god, I took 208 00:15:18.879 --> 00:15:23.200 off for two weeks to kind of take care of myself. 209 00:15:23.360 --> 00:15:27.080 And my employees are where did yes you go? So 210 00:15:27.240 --> 00:15:30.919 a little they know I was basically kind of depressed 211 00:15:30.919 --> 00:15:34.600 and shared and frozen. But you know, to my credit, 212 00:15:35.440 --> 00:15:40.759 I persisted and I had the resilience, and eventually we 213 00:15:40.840 --> 00:15:43.440 figured out a strategy and moved to the Internet and 214 00:15:43.480 --> 00:15:46.600 we became a high flying internet stock. And that's when 215 00:15:46.639 --> 00:15:51.200 I took my company public, and you know, our stock 216 00:15:51.360 --> 00:15:53.759 was rising very quickly. It was the early days of 217 00:15:53.799 --> 00:15:59.399 the Internet, before Google, before Facebook, and it was wide 218 00:15:59.399 --> 00:16:02.159 open feet and I was trying to capitalize on it. 219 00:16:02.200 --> 00:16:03.919 And it was one day I was trying to relax 220 00:16:04.519 --> 00:16:06.480 and I was getting a massage. I was lying on 221 00:16:06.519 --> 00:16:10.240 the massage table and getting deep to shoe massage, and 222 00:16:10.320 --> 00:16:13.799 I went into this deep relaxation, deep state where my 223 00:16:13.919 --> 00:16:16.399 ego kind of dissolved, and all of a sudden, I 224 00:16:16.440 --> 00:16:20.320 experienced this thing of oneness where I realized that normally 225 00:16:20.320 --> 00:16:23.639 we think there's the me, whatever me is. Then I 226 00:16:23.679 --> 00:16:26.519 have my awareness, that which I'm aware of, Like I'm 227 00:16:26.600 --> 00:16:29.399 right now seeing you on my screen, I'm aware of you. 228 00:16:30.039 --> 00:16:34.000 And then so there's the me, there's the awareness, and 229 00:16:34.039 --> 00:16:37.000 then there's the object of the awareness. But when I 230 00:16:37.159 --> 00:16:41.159 kind of relaxed and really tuned in, I realized it's 231 00:16:41.200 --> 00:16:45.120 all made in one thing. It's one field, one one thing. 232 00:16:45.240 --> 00:16:48.919 There's no separation between the self and the awareness. And 233 00:16:48.960 --> 00:16:52.919 the object of awareness. So that really kind of blew 234 00:16:52.960 --> 00:16:55.159 my mind. I opened my eyes, I was looking through 235 00:16:55.159 --> 00:16:59.200 the face cradle, and it looked like the floor that 236 00:16:59.440 --> 00:17:02.639 was under the massage table was It felt like it 237 00:17:02.720 --> 00:17:06.559 was inside of me. And so that just really short 238 00:17:06.599 --> 00:17:10.519 circuited my mind and actually threw me into a manic episode. 239 00:17:10.960 --> 00:17:14.200 And here I was running a public company and trying 240 00:17:14.200 --> 00:17:18.359 to capitalize on the Internet, and I went into this hyperactive, 241 00:17:18.680 --> 00:17:22.240 manic state. I was getting all these brilliant ideas about 242 00:17:22.240 --> 00:17:25.039 the future of the Internet, and a lot of that 243 00:17:25.160 --> 00:17:28.640 came true, but I was pushing my team so hard 244 00:17:28.680 --> 00:17:31.640 to execute on it. Everything had to be done yesterday. 245 00:17:31.640 --> 00:17:33.480 And my board was like, hey, you got to go 246 00:17:33.599 --> 00:17:37.359 chill out. We're going to put you on a ninety 247 00:17:37.480 --> 00:17:41.119 day voluntary leave of absence. Well there was nothing voluntary 248 00:17:41.119 --> 00:17:44.400 about it. They just passed the board resolution. And here 249 00:17:44.480 --> 00:17:46.720 I was on a leave of absence. And when that 250 00:17:47.079 --> 00:17:51.440 was announced, our stock price got cut in half, and 251 00:17:51.519 --> 00:17:54.119 there were headline stories in the Wall Street Journal and 252 00:17:54.160 --> 00:17:55.400 the New York Times, and. 253 00:17:55.279 --> 00:17:58.240 They thought you had gotten nuts and you were You 254 00:17:58.279 --> 00:18:02.599 were not a an on board CEO anymore. You were 255 00:18:02.640 --> 00:18:07.240 more of a distant memory is that why the stock tank? 256 00:18:08.359 --> 00:18:12.440 Well, basically, the wallstreem was like, hey, this guy is 257 00:18:12.480 --> 00:18:15.759 the prime mover in the visionary and the driver of 258 00:18:15.799 --> 00:18:20.799 this company, and all of a sudden, abruptly, he's you know, 259 00:18:20.880 --> 00:18:24.680 on a leave of absence. What the heck? What happened? 260 00:18:24.839 --> 00:18:29.680 You know? Did So they're like, you know, we're investing 261 00:18:29.720 --> 00:18:32.799 in much in the idea, but we're investing in the person. 262 00:18:32.880 --> 00:18:35.359 And when you would get this kind of surprise news, 263 00:18:35.799 --> 00:18:42.119 Wallstream does not look upon it favorably. So that's basically it. 264 00:18:42.400 --> 00:18:44.759 I mean, it was nice for my ego. I was like, okay, 265 00:18:44.839 --> 00:18:48.599 I was the important guy and without me, the stock 266 00:18:48.799 --> 00:18:51.359 is worth a lot less. But it didn't really help 267 00:18:51.440 --> 00:18:53.680 my pocket book, you know, my bank account. 268 00:18:53.839 --> 00:18:57.599 So when you were on this fourth ninety day retreat 269 00:18:57.799 --> 00:19:01.039 or time out, whatever you want to call it, did 270 00:19:01.079 --> 00:19:03.160 that help or hinder you? 271 00:19:04.240 --> 00:19:07.200 Well? I didn't accept it. I mean I was like, 272 00:19:07.400 --> 00:19:09.720 no way, you guys can't tell me to take ninety 273 00:19:09.799 --> 00:19:13.759 days off. If you don't reinstate, institute me back and 274 00:19:13.880 --> 00:19:16.400 let me do the strategy I want to do. I'm 275 00:19:16.440 --> 00:19:19.640 going to resign. So they were like coming and hiring. 276 00:19:19.799 --> 00:19:24.920 I submitted a resignation letter, and I called the special 277 00:19:24.960 --> 00:19:28.759 meeting of the of the shareholders to kind of take 278 00:19:28.759 --> 00:19:32.079 control of the company to vote a new board. So 279 00:19:32.160 --> 00:19:35.279 it became a big drama and then they they issued 280 00:19:35.319 --> 00:19:38.519 a press release that they fired me after I resigned. 281 00:19:38.519 --> 00:19:41.960 So it was a big, big s show, as they 282 00:19:42.039 --> 00:19:50.079 say so. But because I was determined to, uh, you know, 283 00:19:50.359 --> 00:19:52.839 to fight for my baby. This was my baby. I 284 00:19:52.880 --> 00:19:55.119 conceived it, I built it, I was the founder of 285 00:19:55.119 --> 00:20:01.119 the CEO, chairman and so but then you know, it 286 00:20:01.200 --> 00:20:05.079 really hit me and then I lost it because I couldn't. 287 00:20:05.119 --> 00:20:07.519 I could not. I mean, these are people that put 288 00:20:07.559 --> 00:20:12.119 on the board, but you know they were they were like, hey, 289 00:20:12.680 --> 00:20:15.480 you know, you can't run a company in this state 290 00:20:15.720 --> 00:20:17.079 the way they were right, you know. 291 00:20:17.240 --> 00:20:19.640 I mean I'm just going to ask you if you 292 00:20:19.680 --> 00:20:22.000 if you were to look back, would you say now 293 00:20:22.039 --> 00:20:28.240 that you were acting erratic and on businesslike uh to 294 00:20:28.319 --> 00:20:30.000 be running the company and this is why they are 295 00:20:30.000 --> 00:20:30.599 freaking out? 296 00:20:31.200 --> 00:20:36.559 Yeah totally okay. Well, but I mean by my insights, 297 00:20:36.640 --> 00:20:41.079 my insights were if I maybe humble say, they were brilliant. 298 00:20:43.480 --> 00:20:46.799 I mean the insights I had were were right on, 299 00:20:47.039 --> 00:20:50.039 and time only prove proven it. And the people pushed 300 00:20:50.079 --> 00:20:52.599 me out years later, told me, if we executed the 301 00:20:52.720 --> 00:20:56.200 vision and strategy would have been the next Facebook or Google. 302 00:20:56.640 --> 00:21:00.200 But I was erratic and I didn't know how to 303 00:21:00.400 --> 00:21:03.920 manage my team and the board to see it. So yeah, 304 00:21:04.000 --> 00:21:07.519 I mean they did the right thing. I mean, of course, 305 00:21:07.559 --> 00:21:08.359 it's painful. 306 00:21:08.480 --> 00:21:11.720 And let me just ask you this, would you say 307 00:21:11.759 --> 00:21:15.400 now as a clinical psychologist, that you were in a 308 00:21:15.480 --> 00:21:16.160 manic state? 309 00:21:17.039 --> 00:21:19.039 I think so, yeah, that was that. 310 00:21:19.119 --> 00:21:23.240 Was Yeah, I think, you know, and that's known in 311 00:21:23.640 --> 00:21:26.880 the literature that sometimes when you have a Kundolini awakening 312 00:21:27.160 --> 00:21:31.839 or what's called the spiritual emergency, that it can you know, 313 00:21:32.119 --> 00:21:33.160 destabilize you. 314 00:21:33.240 --> 00:21:36.440 So you can have these brilliant spiritual insights. But if 315 00:21:36.480 --> 00:21:42.440 you're psyche and the container is not strong enough, the vehicle, 316 00:21:42.519 --> 00:21:48.680 the vessel, then the vessel fracture. So you know, that's 317 00:21:48.759 --> 00:21:53.200 what happened. Now. Fortunately, you know, that was almost thirty 318 00:21:53.240 --> 00:21:56.279 years ago, twenty nine years ago, and I've worked a 319 00:21:56.319 --> 00:22:00.599 lot on myself and i haven't had another episode. And 320 00:22:00.599 --> 00:22:03.799 then I've been able to get off all the medications, 321 00:22:03.839 --> 00:22:07.079 all the drugs. I've been off of any meds for 322 00:22:07.240 --> 00:22:11.920 you know, twenty seven, twenty eight years. Sure, but you know, 323 00:22:12.079 --> 00:22:14.720 it takes a lot of skill and self awareness to 324 00:22:14.799 --> 00:22:20.200 know how to ground and cultivate this energy, but build 325 00:22:20.200 --> 00:22:23.799 the vessel that can contain it without it exploding. 326 00:22:24.440 --> 00:22:27.880 Right, But this was not only a shift for you, 327 00:22:28.000 --> 00:22:34.599 but also an opening to what you would call spiritual 328 00:22:34.640 --> 00:22:40.640 intelligence and understanding of spiritual intelligence. And this is the 329 00:22:40.640 --> 00:22:45.000 theme of the book. I think it's also insightful because 330 00:22:45.039 --> 00:22:49.759 the book is based on forty two interviews or I 331 00:22:49.799 --> 00:22:53.920 guess you could call interviews with CEOs that you populate 332 00:22:53.960 --> 00:22:56.960 the book with, and their own journeys and their own 333 00:22:57.000 --> 00:23:01.279 trials and tribulations and helping them become aware. So this 334 00:23:02.599 --> 00:23:07.440 panic attack that you had served you, but at the 335 00:23:07.480 --> 00:23:11.079 time nobody was prepared to deal with your issues, and 336 00:23:11.119 --> 00:23:13.400 you were the head of a company. So it was 337 00:23:13.559 --> 00:23:16.519 just I mean, as you look back, you must think 338 00:23:16.559 --> 00:23:18.680 of it as a turning point. Obviously. 339 00:23:19.279 --> 00:23:21.440 Yeah, it was a big turning point. It was as 340 00:23:21.519 --> 00:23:25.039 tragic and it was a blessing in disguise, as you said. So. Yeah, 341 00:23:25.079 --> 00:23:29.720 So these forty two CEOs were in my doctoral research study, 342 00:23:29.920 --> 00:23:34.839 and I developed this measure of spiritual intelligence and then 343 00:23:35.240 --> 00:23:40.240 looked at how that compared to emotional intelligence, compared to personality, 344 00:23:40.519 --> 00:23:45.319 explained who were better more effective leaders than engendered teens 345 00:23:45.359 --> 00:23:49.720 with higher morale, higher commitment, and lower turnover. And indeed, 346 00:23:49.920 --> 00:23:54.279 even when you account for emotional intelligence, spiritual intelligence had 347 00:23:54.319 --> 00:23:57.559 more of an effect. And since then, other researchers have 348 00:23:57.680 --> 00:24:01.160 taken this measure of spiritual intelligence that I developed and 349 00:24:01.200 --> 00:24:04.119 have shown that leaders that have a higher level of 350 00:24:04.119 --> 00:24:09.359 spiritual intelligence produce better financial results for their business units. 351 00:24:09.400 --> 00:24:13.359 So this is this is kind of triple quadruple bottom line, 352 00:24:13.400 --> 00:24:16.480 it's good for the financial results of the business. It's 353 00:24:16.519 --> 00:24:19.599 good for the mental health and well being and fulfillment 354 00:24:19.799 --> 00:24:23.799 of the CEO, the leader. It's good for the team, 355 00:24:24.000 --> 00:24:31.319 their morale, their their fulfillment, their self actualization. So you 356 00:24:31.359 --> 00:24:35.519 know this isn't just wooh. There's science behind this, and 357 00:24:35.559 --> 00:24:40.079 not just me. There's you know, many researchers around the 358 00:24:40.119 --> 00:24:42.680 world that have taken this work and carried it and 359 00:24:42.799 --> 00:24:48.279 validated and shown that spiritual intelligence increases satisfaction with life, 360 00:24:48.519 --> 00:24:53.039 quality of life, resilience, mental health. Now I'm doing a 361 00:24:53.079 --> 00:24:57.799 study with couples and looking at how spiritual intelligence helps 362 00:24:58.200 --> 00:25:04.279 relational satisfaction your primary romantic partnership. And it's so far 363 00:25:04.559 --> 00:25:08.519 from the early sample. Even though it's a it's a 364 00:25:08.640 --> 00:25:12.000 relatively small sample. I have so far twenty six couples 365 00:25:12.000 --> 00:25:14.400 that completed. My goal is to get to one hundred. 366 00:25:14.960 --> 00:25:19.799 But the results are already amazingly statistically significant. That spiritual 367 00:25:19.839 --> 00:25:25.200 intelligence by far has the biggest effect on relational satisfaction, 368 00:25:25.400 --> 00:25:28.839 more than attachment theory, more than emotional intelligence. 369 00:25:29.640 --> 00:25:34.079 Is what is spiritual intelligence? You see, give us the definition? 370 00:25:35.079 --> 00:25:40.519 And also did you come up with your own version 371 00:25:40.759 --> 00:25:48.359 of the of spiritual intelligence during or after your corporate life? 372 00:25:48.559 --> 00:25:52.279 Okay, that's a great question. So yeah, what is spiritual intelligence? 373 00:25:52.279 --> 00:25:56.200 So let's just by analogy, if you I'm going to 374 00:25:56.960 --> 00:26:01.119 compare to emotional intelligence. So what is emotional intelligence? More 375 00:26:01.160 --> 00:26:04.799 people have heard about it. So emotional intelligence the ability 376 00:26:04.839 --> 00:26:10.440 to draw on emotional resources to help manage emotions in 377 00:26:10.480 --> 00:26:13.920 ourselves and others. You know, up until that concept came, 378 00:26:13.920 --> 00:26:16.880 we thought there was a dichotomy between being emotional and 379 00:26:16.920 --> 00:26:20.160 being rational. If I said, hey, Cliff, do you know 380 00:26:20.240 --> 00:26:22.640 people in your life that are emotional? You know, that 381 00:26:22.720 --> 00:26:25.440 might not be the greatest compliment. You know, they might 382 00:26:25.519 --> 00:26:28.240 need the kind of people that prone to a lot 383 00:26:28.279 --> 00:26:31.519 of drama. They get theory and a puppy commercial. But 384 00:26:31.640 --> 00:26:35.640 emotional intelligence is a whole different thing, right, It's the 385 00:26:35.680 --> 00:26:39.200 ability to draw on these resources, use that information to 386 00:26:39.319 --> 00:26:44.799 help you make better decisions, show up in a better way. 387 00:26:44.880 --> 00:26:49.359 So what is spiritual intelligence. So spiritual intelligence is the 388 00:26:49.400 --> 00:26:55.279 ability to draw on spiritual resources and embody spiritual qualities 389 00:26:55.880 --> 00:27:00.119 that have been celebrated throughout all the world's wisdom traditions 390 00:27:00.559 --> 00:27:05.680 and spiritual traditions from millennia. So what are these qualities? 391 00:27:06.440 --> 00:27:10.559 These are qualities like purpose and service, and gratitude and trust, 392 00:27:10.960 --> 00:27:15.200 and humility and compassion and forgiveness. These qualities have been 393 00:27:15.240 --> 00:27:18.839 talked about for thousands of years, from the ancient Greeks 394 00:27:18.920 --> 00:27:22.240 to the Buddhists, to the hindu the Christians, the Muslims, 395 00:27:22.279 --> 00:27:26.200 the Jews, the Shamans. So I interviewed seventy one teachers 396 00:27:26.240 --> 00:27:31.799 across all the world's traditions and asked them how spirituality 397 00:27:31.960 --> 00:27:35.400 informs their life and how does it help them function better. 398 00:27:35.680 --> 00:27:38.480 And these were people that were nominated by their peers 399 00:27:38.519 --> 00:27:42.839 as people who walk the talk, and so these were 400 00:27:42.880 --> 00:27:46.680 the qualities they talked about. So the point is, and 401 00:27:46.759 --> 00:27:49.839