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<v Speaker 1>How'd you like to listen to dot NetRocks with no ads? Easy?

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<v Speaker 1>Become a patron for just five dollars a month. You

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<v Speaker 1>shows have no ads. Twenty dollars a month. We'll get

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<v Speaker 1>you that and a special dot NetRocks patron mug. Sign

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<v Speaker 1>up now at Patreon dot dot NetRocks dot com. Hey

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<v Speaker 1>guess what. It's dot net Rocks all over again. Nineteen

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<v Speaker 1>hundred and fifty nine episodes so far. We'll figure it

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<v Speaker 1>out one of these days. Yeah, one of these days

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<v Speaker 1>we'll learn what we're doing. I'm Carl Franklin. That's Richard Campbell.

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<v Speaker 1>What's up, buddy? Hey?

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<v Speaker 2>Oh you know beautiful summer. We're recording this on Canada Day,

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<v Speaker 2>July first, So oh yeah, I'm gonna make a couple

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<v Speaker 2>of shows today and then I'm gonna head out and celebrate.

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<v Speaker 1>Have some barbecue and some whiskey and all that stuff.

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<v Speaker 1>That's it. It's a grilling day, drink some Canadian whiskey.

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<v Speaker 1>Our friend Lemon is here, and as an honor to him,

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<v Speaker 1>or tip my hat to Lemon, my better no framework

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<v Speaker 1>has something to do with him. So roll the music

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<v Speaker 1>all right, man, what do you got? There's the link

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<v Speaker 1>right there that I just shared with you guys. This

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<v Speaker 1>is the script from the cub pub Conf two talk

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<v Speaker 1>that I did and beat lemon O, who is who

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<v Speaker 1>is the projected winner of pubconf because he always wins? Yeah, well,

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<v Speaker 1>between him and Randolph, you're in trouble. You know, those

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<v Speaker 1>two are wicked funny. This one is all about vocal dyslexia.

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<v Speaker 1>And you know vocal dyslexia. You can probably figure out

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<v Speaker 1>what what it is, right speech, old garb backs, coming out,

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<v Speaker 1>word words, that kind of stuff. There was a comedy

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<v Speaker 1>routine that I stole some of this from, but a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of it I wrote myself, and I wrote it

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<v Speaker 1>as if it was real. And you know that this

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<v Speaker 1>is a secret that I've been hiding from everybody and

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<v Speaker 1>editing out and you know, retaking my dot net rocks

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<v Speaker 1>shows all that stuff. And somebody came up to me

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<v Speaker 1>afterwards and said, I'm so sorry that said for what

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<v Speaker 1>it was a joke.

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<v Speaker 2>Come on, but I sold it pretty well anyway, unless

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<v Speaker 2>I sold it well enough that they're like, nope, no,

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<v Speaker 2>we're rolling.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. So the link is to a script in PDF

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<v Speaker 1>format and there you go as another joke. I had

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<v Speaker 1>slides up that had the actual correct wording right, and

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<v Speaker 1>so my script was you know, highlighted all of the puns,

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<v Speaker 1>so it was it was effective. Enjoy.

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<v Speaker 2>It's also out of self control on your part. I

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<v Speaker 2>presume you did not look at the correct wording we're

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<v Speaker 2>focusing on.

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<v Speaker 1>No, no, no, I went on. I went only on

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<v Speaker 1>my script, but I had to check to see where

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<v Speaker 1>I had to write little breaks in the script so

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<v Speaker 1>I could advance the slides. Yeah, or maybe it was

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<v Speaker 1>the slides automatically advanced every minute or so, was it

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<v Speaker 1>forty seconds? Yeah, I can't you lemon.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, it's like night rules, so it would be a

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<v Speaker 3>new slide every fifteen seconds.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah ah yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>And it's the challenge that's anything harder in this world

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<v Speaker 2>than a five minute bit, honestly, I know, because it's

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<v Speaker 2>so tight hard right Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's a way

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<v Speaker 2>harder problem. And you know, give me, give me an

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<v Speaker 2>hour any day of the week. I thought Yours Lemon

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<v Speaker 2>was hilarious.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I was trying. I was trying to remember that

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<v Speaker 3>one because that was when Todd thought that it would

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<v Speaker 3>be a gift to essentially like write my deck for me. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 3>and so I would have nothing to prepare to Yeah, exactly,

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<v Speaker 3>not like I wouldn't so like so essentially, I would

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<v Speaker 3>like before the show, you're riffing, before the show, I

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<v Speaker 3>would like write up a script of like possible jokes

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<v Speaker 3>of like Okay, well if he writes this deck, then

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<v Speaker 3>I'm going to do this joke. And he writes this deck,

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<v Speaker 3>I'm going to do this And it was just all

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<v Speaker 3>Dolly created versions of me in different occupations.

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<v Speaker 1>It was great. All right, Well enough of that. Who's

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<v Speaker 1>talking to us today?

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<v Speaker 2>Richard Campbell grabbed a comment of a show nineteen fifty three,

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<v Speaker 2>the one we did with our friend Scott Hunter back

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<v Speaker 2>at Build talking about coding agents, and I realized, like,

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<v Speaker 2>we're kind of over the top on AI topics right now,

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<v Speaker 2>like the past couple of months. But let's face it,

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<v Speaker 2>this technology is emerging in a big way and then

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<v Speaker 2>going fast.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>I got to tell you I've been hanging out with

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<v Speaker 2>my friend Ken Tol's dad, which we'll drag back on

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<v Speaker 2>the show sometimes soon. He's literally demonstrating using these tools

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<v Speaker 2>to the point where in the meeting to outline the

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<v Speaker 2>requirements for the project, he completed the project. Wow, I

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<v Speaker 2>figured it was six weeks of coding done in a

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<v Speaker 2>two hour meeting.

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<v Speaker 1>Wow.

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<v Speaker 2>I think it's just astonishing and grinded. It depends on

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<v Speaker 2>the project. There's lots of different elements to all of this,

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<v Speaker 2>so the coding agent thing, you know, obviously relevant in

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<v Speaker 2>our commentators Jeremy Hadten who said this was a fascinating

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<v Speaker 2>episode that started to really show what the future of

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<v Speaker 2>programming is going to look like. And yet the end

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<v Speaker 2>result question on everyone's mind, not just technologies, is will

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<v Speaker 2>I be out of a job in a year or

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<v Speaker 2>two time work as a technologists and financial services and

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<v Speaker 2>this question is also the top of mind for my

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<v Speaker 2>business colleagues who respond to AI is often think instead

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<v Speaker 2>of what great services you go to offer to customers

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<v Speaker 2>if you had five assistants. Many of us have worked

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<v Speaker 2>on long lived projects where the list of minor but

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<v Speaker 2>customer annoying defects and future request just grows and grows.

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<v Speaker 2>There's always more important things to do. Imagine a world

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<v Speaker 2>where with the help of coding agents writing pullar quests,

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<v Speaker 2>the list is actually reduced to zero. Maybe we'll have

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<v Speaker 2>permanently delighted customers, permanently delighted.

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<v Speaker 1>I do like that.

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<v Speaker 2>Line, not like anybody's getting the bottom of the to

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<v Speaker 2>do list.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that's true.

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<v Speaker 2>The real question is what are the skills you need

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<v Speaker 2>to focus on to be able to utilize these tools? Well, Like,

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<v Speaker 2>it doesn't surprise me that a friend like Kent Doll's

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<v Speaker 2>stat or any of us really because you can think

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<v Speaker 2>through the whole problem and you're shepherding these tools of

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<v Speaker 2>limited capability. Yeah, so these parts that it can code.

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<v Speaker 1>And I still believe that unless you've done what the

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<v Speaker 1>tool is doing and can spot things that it's doing

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<v Speaker 1>wrong or that you don't want it to do particularly

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<v Speaker 1>that way, and can correct it, Yeah, you're basing your

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<v Speaker 1>whole career around something that may or may not serve you. Well,

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<v Speaker 1>So I still think that you have to be a

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<v Speaker 1>developer and you have to have experience to know what

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<v Speaker 1>to correct. Yeah, yeah, I don't disagree.

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<v Speaker 2>And certainly as soon as the complexity reaches a certain level,

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<v Speaker 2>these tools tip over.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, in all of these things, you know, obviously, like

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<v Speaker 3>you know, our hearts bleed for the juniors because you know,

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<v Speaker 3>you need to have somebody get a foothold on those

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<v Speaker 3>kinds things. And that's the first place that this thing

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<v Speaker 3>is supposed to supplant except for like the thing that

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<v Speaker 3>like with all of the doom saying and all of

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<v Speaker 3>the and all of the like cataclysmic you know, earth

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<v Speaker 3>shattering like AI stuff that I think people lose sight of.

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<v Speaker 3>Is I remember living through the entire squarespace revolution.

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<v Speaker 2>Sure, you know why I wouldn't even build a website again,

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah exactly.

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<v Speaker 3>And it's like nobody's going to hire somebody like me

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<v Speaker 3>because they can do something in square space. It's like, yeah, no,

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<v Speaker 3>you absolutely can. Like if you're a you know, a

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<v Speaker 3>Thai restaurant, that is the right move. That's exactly what

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<v Speaker 3>you should be doing. Word Press all that, Yeah, I

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<v Speaker 3>mean that those those those really awful like word Press

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<v Speaker 3>kind of like UI Builder things. Yeah, you know, eventually

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<v Speaker 3>there's like gets hacked. So that's a thing, but like

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<v Speaker 3>until that time, you'll have a site that like is

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<v Speaker 3>slow but like probably works okay. And so that's that's

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<v Speaker 3>a thing that we've lived through a bunch and the

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<v Speaker 3>idea of doing like client service website for money things

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<v Speaker 3>still exists because there is a level that that's not

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<v Speaker 3>attainable at.

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<v Speaker 2>Sure, are you really just being more productive you know,

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<v Speaker 2>more of the same.

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<v Speaker 1>And trusting too, Like a customer is going to trust

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<v Speaker 1>an expert whether or not they use AI. If they

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<v Speaker 1>use it, great, they're more productive rather than just going

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<v Speaker 1>directly to an AI and trying it themselves, because that's risky.

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<v Speaker 3>And you know, I've been in a lot of client

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<v Speaker 3>meetings and like a lot of client meetings, and the

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<v Speaker 3>idea of even just getting something that you can spec

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<v Speaker 3>out for a coding agent to do, you know, like

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<v Speaker 3>the average client like explaining their requirements is Labyrinthian and

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<v Speaker 3>it's Brazil and so like.

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<v Speaker 2>We get back to this idea of you you thought

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<v Speaker 2>your job as a software developer was writing code.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, I thought it was to develop software.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah yeah, yeah yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>So the one thing I will say to the junior

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<v Speaker 1>develop is before you write a line of code or

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<v Speaker 1>ask the AI to write a line of code, you

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<v Speaker 1>should consult with the AI given your spec to come

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<v Speaker 1>up with an architecture and then get the buy off

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<v Speaker 1>from your customer on that architecture before you do anything right,

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<v Speaker 1>because that's going to be your limiting factor. You don't

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<v Speaker 1>have experience to know what the architecture should be. You

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<v Speaker 1>can get some ideas from AI but ultimately your customers.

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<v Speaker 1>That's all I'm going to say for now, Richard, you

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<v Speaker 1>can get back to the comment.

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<v Speaker 2>All right, Jeremy, thank you so much for your comment.

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<v Speaker 2>And a copy of music Coba is on its way

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<v Speaker 2>to you. And if you'd like a copy musakobea, I

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<v Speaker 2>write a comment on the website at dot NetRocks dot

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<v Speaker 2>com or on the facebooks. We publish every show there

189
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<v Speaker 2>and if you comment there and everybody in the show,

190
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<v Speaker 2>send you copy of Musickoba.

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<v Speaker 1>And Music to Cobey is still going strong, twenty two tracks.

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<v Speaker 1>You can get the whole collection in MP three flak

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<v Speaker 1>or wave format of Music to Code by dot net.

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<v Speaker 1>All right, man, let's talk about what happened in nineteen

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<v Speaker 1>fifty nine before we bring on Lemon. All right. Some

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<v Speaker 1>significant events included the admission of Hawaii as the fiftieth

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<v Speaker 1>state in the United States. Wow Yeah, the tragic plane

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<v Speaker 1>crash known as the Day the Music Died, Buddy Holly

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<v Speaker 1>Big Bopper, Ritchie Valens I believe for those three, and

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<v Speaker 1>the launch of the first American satellite explorer seven. Additionally,

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<v Speaker 1>it was a pivotal year for cultural and political changes,

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<v Speaker 1>including the rise of Fidel Castro in Cuba, and the

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<v Speaker 1>introduction of the Barbie doll. What do you got on

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<v Speaker 1>your list? Richard?

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<v Speaker 2>The IBM fourteen oh one, the first mass produced mainframe

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<v Speaker 2>transistor based This is still before you know chips exists.

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<v Speaker 2>They called it literally the model T of computers. Twelve

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<v Speaker 2>thousand units sold over fifteen years or so, going out

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<v Speaker 2>of production in seventy one.

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<v Speaker 1>Wow.

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<v Speaker 2>Introduction of the first photocopier, the Xerox nine to fourteen

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<v Speaker 2>plain paper copier. There were specially paper copiers before that,

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<v Speaker 2>the transfer paper and stuff up by a plain paper copier.

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<v Speaker 2>And my personal favorite, the lecture from Richard Feynman called

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<v Speaker 2>There's plenty of Room at the bottom where he describes nanotechnology. Wow, Wow,

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<v Speaker 2>that's Fineman.

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<v Speaker 1>That's some stuff. Nineteen fifty nine. It's unbelievable. Yeah, okay, well,

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<v Speaker 1>I guess we should introduce our guest Lemon that's his name,

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<v Speaker 1>first name, last name, Yes, with a lifelong passion that

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<v Speaker 1>you know what that joke is from? It was I

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<v Speaker 1>Am Mork from the planet Orc. Is that your first

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<v Speaker 1>name or last name? Yes? Robin Williams all right, with

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<v Speaker 1>a lifelong passion for the weirdness of the Internet and

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<v Speaker 1>a day job as a development lead for whoever hired him.

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<v Speaker 1>Lemon spends his professional time making websites for money and

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<v Speaker 1>his free time making websites for no money. I should

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<v Speaker 1>have read this first. He's created a number of stupid

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<v Speaker 1>things for the Internet, like the games over on kind

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<v Speaker 1>of Fun, the wiki how guessing game, Damn Dog, the

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<v Speaker 1>Google autocomplete game, idiots dot Win, and other things of

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<v Speaker 1>questionable use. He also hosts a podcast that looks at

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<v Speaker 1>some of the Internet's weirder subcultures. It's not safe for

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<v Speaker 1>your work unless you work somewhere really cool. Welcome Lemon. Thanks, yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>very cool.

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<v Speaker 3>That's so great to talk to you guys.

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<v Speaker 1>Good to have you on friend. Yeah. What's on your

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<v Speaker 1>mind these days? Boy?

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<v Speaker 3>A lot, a lot of the the idea of Because

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<v Speaker 3>one of the things that Richard and I were talking

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<v Speaker 3>about a little while ago is is that I think

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<v Speaker 3>that the idea of the traditional web is coming back

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<v Speaker 3>to like win a little bit more. I think that

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<v Speaker 3>the sort of like movement towards like super weighty like

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<v Speaker 3>spas is starting to move away, which means that which

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<v Speaker 3>means that I think so, I think so, and that's

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<v Speaker 3>because I'm really excited to tell a bunch of people

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<v Speaker 3>that I was right.

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<v Speaker 1>That's the important part.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, exactly. But like you know, even like in the

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<v Speaker 3>front ends world, like the the newest hotness is astro,

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<v Speaker 3>and like an astro is cool, but like, but I

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<v Speaker 3>do like that, like the thing that is the real exciting, new,

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<v Speaker 3>brand new tech sort of deal is also something that

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<v Speaker 3>is traditional server rendered like MPa, you know, index dot

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<v Speaker 3>HTML pages. And I think that that's that's in my mind,

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<v Speaker 3>a little bit of a return to sanity, which I

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<v Speaker 3>think is great.

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<v Speaker 1>Now this is a this is a great time to

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<v Speaker 1>ask this question. Are you talking about sites for companies

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<v Speaker 1>that their customers are b to B or internal applications,

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<v Speaker 1>or are you talking about customer facing websites that are

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<v Speaker 1>heavy on the client side.

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<v Speaker 3>I think that I think that there's a little bit

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<v Speaker 3>more of it happening when it is like, uh, you know,

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<v Speaker 3>public or customer facing. The idea of when U URLs

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<v Speaker 3>matter more, when when discoverability matters more, when open graph

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<v Speaker 3>stuff matters more. That's where like MPAs do a better job.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm just looking at the set of URLs we just

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<v Speaker 2>had and thinking, look, how coolies are kind of dot

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<v Speaker 2>fun and idiots dot win and damn dot dog and

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<v Speaker 2>Astro dot build.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, there's so many. There's so many TLDs.

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<v Speaker 3>I mean, there's like the idea of I mean, you know,

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<v Speaker 3>like I try to every once in a while try

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<v Speaker 3>to talk clients out of buying you know, the dot

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<v Speaker 3>com or the dot org because you'll have to end

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<v Speaker 3>up with something that's pretty lame. But if you do

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<v Speaker 3>have literally like seven hundred like TLDs, you can probably

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<v Speaker 3>find something really and like damn Dog, that one specifically

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<v Speaker 3>was I saw the like dot dog was a valid

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<v Speaker 3>tld and I was like, can I buy damn Dog?

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<v Speaker 3>And it was like yeah, and it won't be that

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<v Speaker 3>much and I was like okay, cool, and then I

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<v Speaker 3>bought it and I was like okay, what goes here? Yeah,

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<v Speaker 3>And so like the game that I built for that

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<v Speaker 3>domain doesn't really relate to the name, no exactly, Like

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<v Speaker 3>it doesn't like wiki how and damn Dog don't really

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<v Speaker 3>have anything to do together. It was just like, well,

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<v Speaker 3>I got this domain, I got this idea, let'swush them together.

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<v Speaker 1>No, that okay, so funny.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's there is an interesting wave I think people

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<v Speaker 2>are tired of the megasites. Yeah, that that tooling's gotten

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<v Speaker 2>so much better. Like I've had a whole conversation the

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<v Speaker 2>other day about how could we build an Amazon that

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<v Speaker 2>wasn't Amazon. That's just an interface to looking up all

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<v Speaker 2>of the sites for products that you're looking for. And

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<v Speaker 2>I'm like, aren't you talking about Google? It's like and

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<v Speaker 2>it's not Google. It's like, okay, it's just the loathing

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<v Speaker 2>of the tech giants that we've got. Is that what

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<v Speaker 2>this is?

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<v Speaker 3>I mean justify So I mean like I think that

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<v Speaker 3>you know, Fang's done to a fair amount in the

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<v Speaker 3>last couple of years to get some resentment.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, a fair bit of that.

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<v Speaker 2>And you know, again looking at the positive side of

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<v Speaker 2>this AI wave in that we do have tools that

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<v Speaker 2>could do or searching for us, I also wonder if

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<v Speaker 2>we're you know, we're getting walked back to bare metal

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<v Speaker 2>coding because same thing, the tools are really getting really

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<v Speaker 2>good at doing vanilla JavaScript.

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<v Speaker 3>Or doing vanilla JavaScript, which is the part that I

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<v Speaker 3>never want to do, you know, So like like like

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<v Speaker 3>one of the things is that like I've never like, okay, sure,

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<v Speaker 3>like if you're writing code, the one thing that you're

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<v Speaker 3>granted every once in a while, is you get to

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<v Speaker 3>experience a flow state and that's great. Yeah, you're like

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<v Speaker 3>where you're writing code and it feels good and then

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<v Speaker 3>you're like an hour in it starts to feel terrific

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<v Speaker 3>and like that's a lovely feeling. But like you can

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<v Speaker 3>get that in a lot of different ways and genuinely,

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<v Speaker 3>like the actual writing of code, syntax, indenting, semicolons, I

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<v Speaker 3>don't like that at all. Like I've never been interested

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<v Speaker 3>in that kind of thing, like all of those like

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<v Speaker 3>internal like religious holy wars that people will have about

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<v Speaker 3>like this this syntax versus this syntax. Like, boy, if

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<v Speaker 3>we can agree on it, yeah, that's all that matters.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you know, I got to tell you the past

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<v Speaker 2>few weeks, I've spent a lot of time with a

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<v Speaker 2>bunch of twenty something developers. They really don't care about languages,

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<v Speaker 2>frameworks or any of those things. They are just trying

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<v Speaker 2>to build solutions. We're here, we are, you know, concerned

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<v Speaker 2>for the junior developer. I am not concerned about these guys.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah they would, they are. They are totally interested in

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<v Speaker 2>solving solutions and with the stack they're use is the

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<v Speaker 2>least interesting part of that.

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<v Speaker 3>I love I love that. Yeah, like be omnivorous and

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00:17:43.200 --> 00:17:46.000
<v Speaker 3>you know, like do you like view or react? I

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<v Speaker 3>don't know, Like whoever solves the problem.

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<v Speaker 2>And the other side of this is because they can

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<v Speaker 2>also deliver an MVP in a week or a couple

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<v Speaker 2>of days. You know, when we were committing to nine

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<v Speaker 2>months to the first you know, meaningful build, you could

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<v Speaker 2>spend a few days talking about what stack to use.

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<v Speaker 2>But if you're going to be done in a week,

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<v Speaker 2>you shouldn't spend five minutes on it.

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<v Speaker 1>Just go right.

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<v Speaker 2>The longer debate, the slower you're going.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, yeah, And these things get to get cheaper because

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<v Speaker 3>if you are able to build something with that sort

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<v Speaker 3>of expediency to a certain extent, your QA is that

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<v Speaker 3>your QA is the public launch. So like the plans

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<v Speaker 3>that are the problems you thought you would have are

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<v Speaker 3>actually proved out to be something different because now actual

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<v Speaker 3>customers are using it.

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<v Speaker 1>Hey, sorry, I was quiet for the last few minutes.

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<v Speaker 1>I discovered a bug in our or a situation in

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00:18:36.400 --> 00:18:38.880
<v Speaker 1>our admin that we use in the back of house.

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<v Speaker 1>You are the first guest that does not have a

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<v Speaker 1>last name, and so my software was looking for a

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<v Speaker 1>space to put it into first name and last name,

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<v Speaker 1>and lo and behold you came up blank love it

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<v Speaker 1>and the guests. So I had to actually pull up

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<v Speaker 1>the database and do an update query and that's why

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<v Speaker 1>I've been signed. So but I did enjoy your conversation.

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<v Speaker 3>It's so funny you your yours is not the first

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<v Speaker 3>database that I've broken with my last name?

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<v Speaker 2>Or is it only a last name? When do you

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<v Speaker 2>switch to a symbol? Because it worked for Prince?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah?

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<v Speaker 3>Right, it didn't necessarily work great for Prince, like he

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<v Speaker 3>did go back.

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<v Speaker 1>You can't fill out a form on the internet. Yeah

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<v Speaker 1>for example.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, Like nobody would say that, like symbol was the

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<v Speaker 3>best period in Prince, Like I love Prince, I'm with you,

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<v Speaker 3>but like, but you wouldn't say that like symbol time.

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<v Speaker 2>That's what his best music was created, and that's when

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<v Speaker 2>he was fighting the music industry and winning.

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<v Speaker 1>Hm. That's right, that was really what that was about.

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<v Speaker 1>The solo on while my Guitar Gently we stands out

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<v Speaker 1>as one of his most spectacular performances.

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<v Speaker 3>Oh that's so good, and you know you know the

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<v Speaker 3>backstory to that.

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<v Speaker 1>Right, Well, I know all about the song, But what

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<v Speaker 1>in particular are you talking about.

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<v Speaker 3>So it's it's uh, it's it's it's it was the

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00:19:58.680 --> 00:20:01.640
<v Speaker 3>Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, it's Eric Clapton, it's

388
00:20:02.160 --> 00:20:04.960
<v Speaker 3>other guitar guys. I don't remember who else is in there.

389
00:20:04.839 --> 00:20:08.759
<v Speaker 1>Jeff Lynn, jeff Lyn, Ok, yeah, Tom Petty Yeah.

390
00:20:08.799 --> 00:20:10.599
<v Speaker 3>And so essentially, like the Rock and Roll Hall of

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00:20:10.640 --> 00:20:13.759
<v Speaker 3>Fame put this this performance together and they cast it,

392
00:20:14.240 --> 00:20:17.519
<v Speaker 3>and so you got these like guys that are sitting

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00:20:17.559 --> 00:20:19.759
<v Speaker 3>around and doing their guitar thing, and then Prince is

394
00:20:19.759 --> 00:20:23.000
<v Speaker 3>there and they're like, what is what is the kiss

395
00:20:23.000 --> 00:20:26.039
<v Speaker 3>guy doing here? Like this is what and like, and

396
00:20:26.079 --> 00:20:27.799
<v Speaker 3>so they didn't want to hang out with him. They

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00:20:27.799 --> 00:20:29.720
<v Speaker 3>didn't they didn't think that he was on their level,

398
00:20:30.279 --> 00:20:32.319
<v Speaker 3>and so he kind of like sulked in the corner

399
00:20:32.920 --> 00:20:36.519
<v Speaker 3>and then went home on day one of the actual

400
00:20:36.720 --> 00:20:40.079
<v Speaker 3>like rehearsals, and then and then that was it. That

401
00:20:40.160 --> 00:20:42.119
<v Speaker 3>was that was that was the last thing that happened.

402
00:20:42.160 --> 00:20:47.799
<v Speaker 3>So that actual performance was him showing up without any

403
00:20:47.839 --> 00:20:51.440
<v Speaker 3>of them knowing, like getting on stage shredding their faces

404
00:20:51.480 --> 00:20:54.079
<v Speaker 3>off for two minutes. And then he like hired a

405
00:20:54.119 --> 00:20:56.039
<v Speaker 3>guy to like be in the rafters so that he

406
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<v Speaker 3>when he threw his guitar up in the air, somebody

407
00:20:58.680 --> 00:20:59.200
<v Speaker 3>would catch it.

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00:20:59.119 --> 00:21:01.559
<v Speaker 1>It just never came down. Yeah, And they never came down.

409
00:21:01.640 --> 00:21:04.519
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, and then just like walked off on stage like, yeah,

410
00:21:04.599 --> 00:21:06.319
<v Speaker 3>I'm legit and you just learned that.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't want to get off on a rand about Prince.

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<v Speaker 1>But it goes without saying that throughout his career he

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<v Speaker 1>never put himself forward as the new Jimmy Hendrix, you

414
00:21:16.440 --> 00:21:20.200
<v Speaker 1>know what I mean. He played guitar just like another

415
00:21:20.279 --> 00:21:22.240
<v Speaker 1>part in a song, and a lot of times it

416
00:21:22.279 --> 00:21:24.920
<v Speaker 1>was just rhythm. Of course, in Purple Rain he did

417
00:21:24.960 --> 00:21:28.799
<v Speaker 1>some spectacular things, but other than that, you know, and

418
00:21:29.119 --> 00:21:33.079
<v Speaker 1>who knows what that was people. I think he was

419
00:21:33.119 --> 00:21:37.599
<v Speaker 1>trying to hide it, you know, from the public, just

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00:21:37.759 --> 00:21:41.400
<v Speaker 1>waiting for that moment that while my guitar gently weeps,

421
00:21:41.480 --> 00:21:48.839
<v Speaker 1>moment to prove himself as a shred absolute shredder. Yeah. Yeah,

422
00:21:48.880 --> 00:21:51.240
<v Speaker 1>I don't know. I could be totally wrong. Maybe I

423
00:21:51.319 --> 00:21:54.400
<v Speaker 1>just didn't listen to enough Prince Real stuff. You know.

424
00:21:55.000 --> 00:21:56.559
<v Speaker 2>It was then an air crafton line when they asked

425
00:21:56.599 --> 00:21:59.279
<v Speaker 2>who's the best guitar? What it's like being the best guitarist,

426
00:21:59.319 --> 00:22:01.200
<v Speaker 2>he said, I don't know, have to ask prints.

427
00:22:02.400 --> 00:22:06.319
<v Speaker 1>That's pretty good. Probably he's also named like Hendrix and

428
00:22:06.440 --> 00:22:10.079
<v Speaker 1>Almon and yeah, yeah, he was blown away by Jimmy

429
00:22:10.119 --> 00:22:13.680
<v Speaker 1>Hendricks when he saw him the first time, as was everybody. Okay,

430
00:22:14.519 --> 00:22:16.960
<v Speaker 1>the heck are we talking about here? We're talking about

431
00:22:17.079 --> 00:22:19.559
<v Speaker 1>progressive web apps in twenty twenty five?

432
00:22:19.720 --> 00:22:21.640
<v Speaker 2>Are we walking towards this? I wanted to talk about

433
00:22:21.640 --> 00:22:24.920
<v Speaker 2>progressive webps just because we haven't talked about it in ages. Yeah,

434
00:22:24.960 --> 00:22:26.759
<v Speaker 2>and the areas I can tell. The only thing people

435
00:22:26.799 --> 00:22:28.440
<v Speaker 2>do with it is create an icon on a phone with.

436
00:22:28.400 --> 00:22:32.079
<v Speaker 3>Them Yeah, yeah, which is which is something. It's really

437
00:22:32.200 --> 00:22:34.079
<v Speaker 3>just something you know, you can you can check a

438
00:22:34.119 --> 00:22:36.759
<v Speaker 3>box by doing that, and.

439
00:22:36.640 --> 00:22:38.680
<v Speaker 1>That's Notifications are hard.

440
00:22:38.839 --> 00:22:42.400
<v Speaker 3>Right, Notifications are hard, And a lot of times when

441
00:22:43.119 --> 00:22:46.960
<v Speaker 3>in my mind when a client says to me, like

442
00:22:47.079 --> 00:22:49.720
<v Speaker 3>we want a mobile app, what I actually hear them

443
00:22:49.759 --> 00:22:52.799
<v Speaker 3>say is we want notifications. Like you don't actually want

444
00:22:52.799 --> 00:22:54.920
<v Speaker 3>a mobile app, You just want to get push notifications

445
00:22:54.920 --> 00:22:57.880
<v Speaker 3>to your customers. Like you when you say I have

446
00:22:57.920 --> 00:23:00.799
<v Speaker 3>a restaurant and I need my restaurant to have a moment, Well,

447
00:23:00.799 --> 00:23:03.839
<v Speaker 3>that's that's silly. We're actually saying as we want to

448
00:23:03.880 --> 00:23:07.119
<v Speaker 3>sort of like push notifications onto our customers and like,

449
00:23:07.319 --> 00:23:10.680
<v Speaker 3>and all of that architecture is still like you know,

450
00:23:10.680 --> 00:23:13.759
<v Speaker 3>it's been in the PWA system for a while, and

451
00:23:13.799 --> 00:23:15.720
<v Speaker 3>you can do it with all of the same you know,

452
00:23:15.839 --> 00:23:19.680
<v Speaker 3>Twilio and all of those services will handle that just

453
00:23:19.720 --> 00:23:20.079
<v Speaker 3>the same.

454
00:23:21.000 --> 00:23:24.400
<v Speaker 1>Uh yeah, that's not so much the notification itself. It's

455
00:23:24.400 --> 00:23:28.319
<v Speaker 1>putting the little number red circle number on the icon

456
00:23:28.559 --> 00:23:32.480
<v Speaker 1>on the phone. That is the stuff of legend. Like

457
00:23:32.519 --> 00:23:36.240
<v Speaker 1>in Android, it's a little easier to do in iOS.

458
00:23:36.759 --> 00:23:39.480
<v Speaker 1>You have to have a Firebase account and of this

459
00:23:39.640 --> 00:23:42.720
<v Speaker 1>and a that and services and all that. And in

460
00:23:42.839 --> 00:23:47.960
<v Speaker 1>a PWA, I thought it was not allowed by iOS.

461
00:23:49.079 --> 00:23:51.880
<v Speaker 1>Last time I checked, you couldn't do it. But it's

462
00:23:51.920 --> 00:23:54.079
<v Speaker 1>been a while since I've done a PNWA, so.

463
00:23:54.400 --> 00:23:58.240
<v Speaker 3>You know, interestingly, you're actually now up against a point

464
00:23:58.240 --> 00:24:00.799
<v Speaker 3>of ignorance for me, because I don't know if you

465
00:24:00.880 --> 00:24:03.720
<v Speaker 3>get the little if you get the little dot uh

466
00:24:04.599 --> 00:24:09.039
<v Speaker 3>on on a p W A, I bet you don't. Yeah,

467
00:24:09.279 --> 00:24:10.519
<v Speaker 3>but I don't. I don't know that for a fact.

468
00:24:10.519 --> 00:24:11.799
<v Speaker 3>Somebody would have to fact check me on that.

469
00:24:12.000 --> 00:24:13.960
<v Speaker 1>I I kind of think that, and I've said this

470
00:24:14.039 --> 00:24:17.160
<v Speaker 1>before that Apple would rather you put an app in

471
00:24:17.200 --> 00:24:18.079
<v Speaker 1>the App Store.

472
00:24:18.119 --> 00:24:21.000
<v Speaker 2>Than every time, you know, they resisted. P w A

473
00:24:21.119 --> 00:24:23.640
<v Speaker 2>is the longest, but they also support them and.

474
00:24:23.599 --> 00:24:25.880
<v Speaker 1>They so it makes sense for them to sort of

475
00:24:25.920 --> 00:24:29.400
<v Speaker 1>cripple if you will, or not allow certain things that

476
00:24:29.559 --> 00:24:30.519
<v Speaker 1>real apps.

477
00:24:30.400 --> 00:24:34.279
<v Speaker 3>Have, and they still have you know. That's that's uh.

478
00:24:34.599 --> 00:24:37.160
<v Speaker 3>There's some things that are available in Android that aren't

479
00:24:37.160 --> 00:24:41.079
<v Speaker 3>in iOS right now. One of them is you don't

480
00:24:41.119 --> 00:24:44.160
<v Speaker 3>get gyro in a p w A. You can get

481
00:24:44.160 --> 00:24:46.920
<v Speaker 3>it on an Android, but if you want to, for example, tell.

482
00:24:46.799 --> 00:24:50.200
<v Speaker 1>Us what that is, like like like oh gyroscope.

483
00:24:49.680 --> 00:24:52.119
<v Speaker 3>Yeah yeah, yeah, I like it, like if I want to.

484
00:24:52.160 --> 00:24:54.480
<v Speaker 3>And this actually came up not that long ago where

485
00:24:54.519 --> 00:24:56.920
<v Speaker 3>we were working on something where we wanted to know

486
00:24:56.960 --> 00:24:59.640
<v Speaker 3>if your phone was on its screen or on its

487
00:24:59.720 --> 00:25:03.519
<v Speaker 3>back right, And we did that and it actually was

488
00:25:03.599 --> 00:25:06.480
<v Speaker 3>totally fine on Android, didn't work at all on iOS,

489
00:25:06.720 --> 00:25:09.319
<v Speaker 3>so we had to kind of like reconfigure how that

490
00:25:09.359 --> 00:25:11.799
<v Speaker 3>thing worked. The other thing is they will never give

491
00:25:11.799 --> 00:25:15.440
<v Speaker 3>you NFC. You don't get that that's for Apple pay

492
00:25:15.440 --> 00:25:17.400
<v Speaker 3>on get Out.

493
00:25:17.920 --> 00:25:20.640
<v Speaker 2>Yeah I did just look it up and yes, a

494
00:25:20.640 --> 00:25:25.160
<v Speaker 2>p w A app running on Android will dot uh

495
00:25:25.200 --> 00:25:28.160
<v Speaker 2>for notifications Oh okay, and it won't on it won't

496
00:25:28.160 --> 00:25:31.319
<v Speaker 2>on iOS unless you use the badging API as well.

497
00:25:32.319 --> 00:25:34.519
<v Speaker 3>So you still could then you can, but you just

498
00:25:34.519 --> 00:25:39.960
<v Speaker 3>have to do all right, Well, that's that's something that's

499
00:25:40.000 --> 00:25:40.559
<v Speaker 3>not terrible.

500
00:25:40.640 --> 00:25:43.759
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that's something. And does JavaScript have access just once

501
00:25:43.759 --> 00:25:47.559
<v Speaker 1>again it's if iPhone or if if Safari, right, does

502
00:25:47.640 --> 00:25:50.960
<v Speaker 1>JavaScript have access to the gyroscope? Yeah it does, Yeah

503
00:25:51.000 --> 00:25:52.559
<v Speaker 1>you can use you still couldn't use it.

504
00:25:52.599 --> 00:25:54.440
<v Speaker 3>Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah you can do it. It's just

505
00:25:54.480 --> 00:25:57.640
<v Speaker 3>that it just that your iOS device will never ask

506
00:25:57.640 --> 00:25:59.960
<v Speaker 3>for permission nor grant it, so all of that stuff

507
00:26:00.160 --> 00:26:00.599
<v Speaker 3>be ignored.

508
00:26:00.720 --> 00:26:03.279
<v Speaker 1>Okay, what are the other gotchaes about PWA's that we're

509
00:26:03.319 --> 00:26:04.480
<v Speaker 1>not talking about.

510
00:26:04.680 --> 00:26:06.839
<v Speaker 3>I mean, I think I think some of the other

511
00:26:06.920 --> 00:26:11.039
<v Speaker 3>gotchas are like the you know, like the idea of

512
00:26:12.039 --> 00:26:15.079
<v Speaker 3>people saying like I want it in the app store

513
00:26:15.920 --> 00:26:20.039
<v Speaker 3>is an actual demand. I think that that's a complicated

514
00:26:20.240 --> 00:26:21.920
<v Speaker 3>thing because I think that like being in the app

515
00:26:21.920 --> 00:26:23.720
<v Speaker 3>store is yeah, you know.

516
00:26:24.079 --> 00:26:25.759
<v Speaker 1>Be careful what you ask for.

517
00:26:25.920 --> 00:26:29.079
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, right right, you're you're you're you're slicing your cake

518
00:26:29.119 --> 00:26:32.839
<v Speaker 3>a little bit, because I don't think that like, you know,

519
00:26:32.880 --> 00:26:35.880
<v Speaker 3>there there was a time when there was there was

520
00:26:35.920 --> 00:26:40.720
<v Speaker 3>a time when people were using those app stores for discovery,

521
00:26:40.880 --> 00:26:42.200
<v Speaker 3>and I don't think that's the case anymore.

522
00:26:42.240 --> 00:26:45.000
<v Speaker 2>No, once you have a million apps, you can't find

523
00:26:45.000 --> 00:26:48.039
<v Speaker 2>anything anyway, and you're mostly worried about is this the

524
00:26:48.039 --> 00:26:49.279
<v Speaker 2>app I'm actually looking for?

525
00:26:49.759 --> 00:26:50.240
<v Speaker 1>Right?

526
00:26:50.319 --> 00:26:53.160
<v Speaker 2>I tend not to go you know when I When

527
00:26:53.160 --> 00:26:55.319
<v Speaker 2>I buy a product that requires an app to use it,

528
00:26:55.319 --> 00:26:57.880
<v Speaker 2>probably typically a smart home product of some kind. The

529
00:26:57.920 --> 00:26:59.480
<v Speaker 2>one thing I don't do is go to the place

530
00:26:59.480 --> 00:27:00.960
<v Speaker 2>store to look for the app, because I'll get the

531
00:27:01.000 --> 00:27:01.400
<v Speaker 2>wrong one.

532
00:27:03.440 --> 00:27:07.680
<v Speaker 1>Initially, give you a a QR code or or if

533
00:27:07.720 --> 00:27:10.960
<v Speaker 1>it's just a name, they'll show you the icon so

534
00:27:10.960 --> 00:27:13.279
<v Speaker 1>you can at least tell it from all the other fakies.

535
00:27:13.440 --> 00:27:15.119
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, if you're gonna, if you're gonna encourage people to

536
00:27:15.160 --> 00:27:17.599
<v Speaker 2>go to the play store, give them lots of evidence

537
00:27:17.599 --> 00:27:18.079
<v Speaker 2>of this is.

538
00:27:18.039 --> 00:27:18.920
<v Speaker 1>The correct app.

539
00:27:19.079 --> 00:27:20.359
<v Speaker 3>Absolutely, this is.

540
00:27:20.279 --> 00:27:24.200
<v Speaker 2>The name of the company, this is the icon. It

541
00:27:24.279 --> 00:27:27.319
<v Speaker 2>just speaks to how messed up app stores are that. Yeah,

542
00:27:27.480 --> 00:27:29.119
<v Speaker 2>we don't trust them for a reason.

543
00:27:29.799 --> 00:27:33.119
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Spring brings you back to the U r L thing, Right,

544
00:27:33.839 --> 00:27:37.240
<v Speaker 1>somebody searching for the dot com completely unnecessary if you

545
00:27:37.359 --> 00:27:39.559
<v Speaker 1>have a QR code and.

546
00:27:39.519 --> 00:27:42.160
<v Speaker 3>Then the other sort of uh, what do you want

547
00:27:42.200 --> 00:27:45.559
<v Speaker 3>to say, like challenge to the thing is that in

548
00:27:45.680 --> 00:27:48.599
<v Speaker 3>order to do like in order to do kind of

549
00:27:48.680 --> 00:27:52.880
<v Speaker 3>like anything beyond Baby's first pw A, you have to

550
00:27:52.920 --> 00:27:56.880
<v Speaker 3>do things with service workers. Yeah, and a service worker

551
00:27:57.160 --> 00:28:00.319
<v Speaker 3>is a complicated thing to get started in because because

552
00:28:01.359 --> 00:28:04.279
<v Speaker 3>you're doing cashing. Now you're doing cashing for a thing

553
00:28:04.400 --> 00:28:08.640
<v Speaker 3>that catches, and that's complix. Yes, yes it is, because

554
00:28:08.640 --> 00:28:11.279
<v Speaker 3>if you screw it up and you get that into

555
00:28:11.599 --> 00:28:14.440
<v Speaker 3>you know, the actual like public, and you didn't write

556
00:28:14.440 --> 00:28:17.559
<v Speaker 3>your service worker right, well, now they've got a thing

557
00:28:17.559 --> 00:28:21.519
<v Speaker 3>that's going to be locked in time forever. So you know,

558
00:28:21.680 --> 00:28:25.160
<v Speaker 3>doing that first version of your service worker before you

559
00:28:25.160 --> 00:28:28.119
<v Speaker 3>get out to the public, making sure that that's pretty

560
00:28:28.200 --> 00:28:30.599
<v Speaker 3>rock solid and you can do cash in validation is important.

561
00:28:31.000 --> 00:28:37.799
<v Speaker 1>Very good. I did a PWA version of I think

562
00:28:37.839 --> 00:28:40.359
<v Speaker 1>it was either Music to Code Buy or something like

563
00:28:40.400 --> 00:28:42.359
<v Speaker 1>that on the dot net Rock Show or maybe I

564
00:28:42.400 --> 00:28:44.079
<v Speaker 1>can't remember what it was, but I have it out

565
00:28:44.119 --> 00:28:49.160
<v Speaker 1>there and it was it was pretty good. There's you know,

566
00:28:49.279 --> 00:28:54.680
<v Speaker 1>dealing with the cashed data was obviously an issue. And

567
00:28:54.759 --> 00:28:58.759
<v Speaker 1>if you ever have to, I know that sometimes if

568
00:28:58.759 --> 00:29:01.400
<v Speaker 1>the cash gets busted or something broke, then you just

569
00:29:01.519 --> 00:29:03.480
<v Speaker 1>like put a question mark at the end of the

570
00:29:03.680 --> 00:29:07.799
<v Speaker 1>RL and some entropy data. But I don't recall it

571
00:29:07.839 --> 00:29:12.160
<v Speaker 1>being a deal breaker for the PW. I have a

572
00:29:12.200 --> 00:29:15.440
<v Speaker 1>PWA right now that I use in the house, and

573
00:29:15.839 --> 00:29:18.440
<v Speaker 1>I have a on my mantle. Richard knows this. On

574
00:29:18.480 --> 00:29:22.359
<v Speaker 1>my mantle, I've got a big screen with a WPF

575
00:29:22.400 --> 00:29:27.799
<v Speaker 1>that WPF app that randomly shows pictures for thirty seconds

576
00:29:27.839 --> 00:29:32.160
<v Speaker 1>at a time, And I basically have an app that

577
00:29:32.480 --> 00:29:35.000
<v Speaker 1>goes to a signal our hub that's also in the

578
00:29:35.119 --> 00:29:38.880
<v Speaker 1>WPF app with a local DNS. Okay, you know. It's

579
00:29:38.920 --> 00:29:42.640
<v Speaker 1>a progressive web app and it shows the thing and

580
00:29:42.680 --> 00:29:46.799
<v Speaker 1>I can advance next previous, I can turn on captions

581
00:29:46.839 --> 00:29:48.480
<v Speaker 1>like I can do all sorts of things from it.

582
00:29:48.519 --> 00:29:52.119
<v Speaker 1>And it's very handy and I didn't have to go

583
00:29:52.160 --> 00:29:54.279
<v Speaker 1>to the app store. I just gave my wife the

584
00:29:54.519 --> 00:29:56.640
<v Speaker 1>URL and she installed it and I installed it, and

585
00:29:56.640 --> 00:29:58.720
<v Speaker 1>that's it. It's like a remote.

586
00:29:58.480 --> 00:30:02.799
<v Speaker 3>That's that's very fun. It seems like unnecessary over engineering,

587
00:30:02.839 --> 00:30:04.000
<v Speaker 3>but I love it totally.

588
00:30:04.000 --> 00:30:10.559
<v Speaker 2>Have you met Carl Franklin coming out totally signal He's

589
00:30:10.559 --> 00:30:11.319
<v Speaker 2>going to use signal?

590
00:30:11.680 --> 00:30:14.880
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's totally for the fun of it. Projects.

591
00:30:15.480 --> 00:30:18.640
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, but again, you could have been a QR code

592
00:30:18.720 --> 00:30:20.240
<v Speaker 2>right to just generate it like that.

593
00:30:20.359 --> 00:30:22.440
<v Speaker 1>Now I would yeah, I wrote it before QR codes

594
00:30:22.519 --> 00:30:25.359
<v Speaker 1>or a thing. But uh yeah, just because they don't

595
00:30:25.359 --> 00:30:29.599
<v Speaker 1>make remote controls that I can use with my app.

596
00:30:29.720 --> 00:30:33.240
<v Speaker 1>Yeah yeah, they probably do actually, but I didn't want

597
00:30:33.279 --> 00:30:33.920
<v Speaker 1>to do that.

598
00:30:34.240 --> 00:30:36.119
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, you wanted to use signal.

599
00:30:35.920 --> 00:30:38.200
<v Speaker 1>R absolutely in a progressive way.

600
00:30:38.599 --> 00:30:41.960
<v Speaker 2>Well, and of course my instinct as a developers to say,

601
00:30:42.000 --> 00:30:44.039
<v Speaker 2>isn't there a framework I can use? But it's like

602
00:30:44.519 --> 00:30:48.480
<v Speaker 2>every framework does p w A stuff, doesn't it. Yeah, yeah,

603
00:30:48.799 --> 00:30:51.799
<v Speaker 2>it's not necessarily there's any p w A frameworks per

604
00:30:51.880 --> 00:30:53.680
<v Speaker 2>se as there is a bunch of frameworks and they

605
00:30:53.759 --> 00:30:55.200
<v Speaker 2>leverage the pw A library.

606
00:30:55.319 --> 00:30:57.400
<v Speaker 3>I can run into that sometimes, where like I've seen

607
00:30:57.440 --> 00:31:01.599
<v Speaker 3>people use because like a lot a lot of the

608
00:31:01.759 --> 00:31:04.920
<v Speaker 3>other frameworks, you know, your VET and your like webpack

609
00:31:04.960 --> 00:31:07.799
<v Speaker 3>and roll up or whatever will essentially have like a

610
00:31:07.799 --> 00:31:10.880
<v Speaker 3>p to BA starter kit. But I always found that

611
00:31:10.880 --> 00:31:15.119
<v Speaker 3>weird because it's, like you, the idea of a progressive

612
00:31:15.119 --> 00:31:17.880
<v Speaker 3>web app is that it is progressive, like you're you're

613
00:31:17.920 --> 00:31:22.119
<v Speaker 3>making a website and then you're adding features like condiments. Yeah,

614
00:31:22.319 --> 00:31:26.160
<v Speaker 3>so the idea of well, let's get every single capability

615
00:31:26.160 --> 00:31:28.359
<v Speaker 3>in here. Okay, do you need it?

616
00:31:28.440 --> 00:31:28.480
<v Speaker 1>Like?

617
00:31:29.400 --> 00:31:31.119
<v Speaker 3>Where do you go? What are you going for like

618
00:31:31.160 --> 00:31:32.960
<v Speaker 3>it's a website, add stuff as you need it.

619
00:31:33.279 --> 00:31:34.200
<v Speaker 1>Start with the basics.

620
00:31:34.519 --> 00:31:36.799
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, well, and I think I opened with the it's

621
00:31:36.839 --> 00:31:38.359
<v Speaker 2>just about putting an icon on the phone.

622
00:31:38.720 --> 00:31:42.240
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Well, this seems like a good place for a break.

623
00:31:42.319 --> 00:31:44.920
<v Speaker 1>So we'll be right back after these very important messages.

624
00:31:44.920 --> 00:31:46.200
<v Speaker 1>And as a reminder, if you don't want to hear

625
00:31:46.240 --> 00:31:49.839
<v Speaker 1>these messages, you can become a patron for five bucks

626
00:31:49.839 --> 00:31:51.759
<v Speaker 1>a months. You'll get a feed for dot net rocks

627
00:31:51.759 --> 00:31:56.279
<v Speaker 1>that has no ads. We'll be right back. Did you

628
00:31:56.440 --> 00:31:59.240
<v Speaker 1>know you can lift and shift your dot Net framework

629
00:31:59.319 --> 00:32:03.319
<v Speaker 1>apps to virtual machines in the cloud. Use the elastic

630
00:32:03.440 --> 00:32:07.920
<v Speaker 1>beanstalk service to easily migrate to Amazon EC two with

631
00:32:08.079 --> 00:32:12.200
<v Speaker 1>little or no changes. Find out more at aws dot

632
00:32:12.279 --> 00:32:20.720
<v Speaker 1>Amazon dot com, slash Elastic beanstalk. And we're back. It's

633
00:32:20.720 --> 00:32:24.279
<v Speaker 1>dot net rocks. I'm Carl Franklin, non Richard Cabell, and

634
00:32:24.680 --> 00:32:27.279
<v Speaker 1>that's our buddy Lemon and we're talking about PWA's and

635
00:32:27.400 --> 00:32:30.839
<v Speaker 1>AI and whatever other weird stuff he wants to talk about.

636
00:32:31.920 --> 00:32:34.039
<v Speaker 1>So the floor is open. You got some more weird

637
00:32:34.039 --> 00:32:36.440
<v Speaker 1>stuff you want to talk about with PWA or not?

638
00:32:36.720 --> 00:32:40.279
<v Speaker 3>Oh man ah, you know, I actually one of the

639
00:32:40.319 --> 00:32:44.240
<v Speaker 3>things that that I'm hoping to cause I don't know

640
00:32:44.279 --> 00:32:46.440
<v Speaker 3>if you know, I don't know if you know when

641
00:32:46.440 --> 00:32:47.720
<v Speaker 3>this episode's coming.

642
00:32:47.480 --> 00:32:51.000
<v Speaker 2>Out wed July seventeenth.

643
00:32:50.400 --> 00:32:53.119
<v Speaker 3>July seventeenth, Okay, all right, well that's going to be

644
00:32:53.160 --> 00:32:56.759
<v Speaker 3>my deadline then, because I actually, like I have this

645
00:32:56.799 --> 00:32:59.720
<v Speaker 3>little I don't want to say arcade, but like essentially

646
00:32:59.759 --> 00:33:02.000
<v Speaker 3>like the kind of fun thing which is just a

647
00:33:02.000 --> 00:33:06.759
<v Speaker 3>bunch of like dumb little games and like games no, no, no, no,

648
00:33:06.799 --> 00:33:09.920
<v Speaker 3>like little web games. Okay, that's that's actually a main

649
00:33:10.000 --> 00:33:10.880
<v Speaker 3>cabinet right back there.

650
00:33:11.400 --> 00:33:11.759
<v Speaker 1>It is.

651
00:33:12.200 --> 00:33:18.880
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, yeah, but uh but yeah, so I actually re

652
00:33:19.079 --> 00:33:27.680
<v Speaker 3>engineered this thing from scratch because I was originally using uh,

653
00:33:27.720 --> 00:33:29.920
<v Speaker 3>web sockets and so because I wanted to make a

654
00:33:29.960 --> 00:33:32.519
<v Speaker 3>multiplayer game and proof that I could make a multiplayer game,

655
00:33:32.880 --> 00:33:34.759
<v Speaker 3>and so I did the whole thing with web sockets,

656
00:33:35.680 --> 00:33:38.000
<v Speaker 3>but it broke all the time, and so like people

657
00:33:38.039 --> 00:33:41.200
<v Speaker 3>would want to do these, like like I made these.

658
00:33:41.279 --> 00:33:44.160
<v Speaker 3>This one game called Invalid, which is the slogan for

659
00:33:44.200 --> 00:33:50.400
<v Speaker 3>it was a trivia game of unnecessary suffering. And the

660
00:33:50.440 --> 00:33:53.640
<v Speaker 3>game works. The game works well except for like, man,

661
00:33:53.680 --> 00:33:55.400
<v Speaker 3>did that thing crash?

662
00:33:55.440 --> 00:33:58.440
<v Speaker 1>Does it happen much? Buzzer though, that's that's the thing

663
00:33:59.000 --> 00:33:59.359
<v Speaker 1>it does.

664
00:33:59.519 --> 00:34:05.079
<v Speaker 3>It has it has a flying pig. Yeah, and then

665
00:34:05.079 --> 00:34:06.720
<v Speaker 3>there's a hacking mini game at the end.

666
00:34:07.720 --> 00:34:11.079
<v Speaker 1>Nice. So congratulations, pigs are flying, You've done it kind

667
00:34:11.119 --> 00:34:11.360
<v Speaker 1>of thing.

668
00:34:11.719 --> 00:34:13.840
<v Speaker 3>No, no, no, no, you know you can essentially, you

669
00:34:13.880 --> 00:34:16.960
<v Speaker 3>can distract one of the players by putting a flying

670
00:34:17.000 --> 00:34:19.920
<v Speaker 3>pig on their screen, and then the flying pig just

671
00:34:19.960 --> 00:34:23.559
<v Speaker 3>gives you useless facts. Distract you. That's from the thing

672
00:34:23.599 --> 00:34:25.840
<v Speaker 3>that you're actually trying to do, and it goes and

673
00:34:25.880 --> 00:34:28.239
<v Speaker 3>every time it gives a new fact, it goes like

674
00:34:28.239 --> 00:34:33.280
<v Speaker 3>it oints, you know. But anyway, Yeah, so I had

675
00:34:33.320 --> 00:34:35.880
<v Speaker 3>built this, I had built this this thing out and

676
00:34:35.920 --> 00:34:38.639
<v Speaker 3>it was doing. It was doing just kind of like

677
00:34:38.679 --> 00:34:41.199
<v Speaker 3>a problem because of this this web socket thing. So

678
00:34:41.679 --> 00:34:44.639
<v Speaker 3>I actually did the whole thing again in fire Base

679
00:34:45.199 --> 00:34:47.199
<v Speaker 3>because I knew that that you know, at that point,

680
00:34:47.239 --> 00:34:49.719
<v Speaker 3>like disconnections and the reconnections were less relevant.

681
00:34:49.840 --> 00:34:50.800
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

682
00:34:51.360 --> 00:34:54.719
<v Speaker 3>And so then the new one that I will be

683
00:34:54.840 --> 00:35:00.320
<v Speaker 3>launching with that is a game called this Meeting has

684
00:35:00.360 --> 00:35:04.639
<v Speaker 3>points nice. And so the idea is that you're going

685
00:35:04.719 --> 00:35:07.000
<v Speaker 3>to be in a meeting with your coworkers and it's

686
00:35:07.000 --> 00:35:08.559
<v Speaker 3>going to be boring and it's going to last an

687
00:35:08.559 --> 00:35:11.559
<v Speaker 3>hour and a half and several of the people there

688
00:35:11.559 --> 00:35:15.480
<v Speaker 3>won't pay attention. So therefore, when you get into the meeting,

689
00:35:15.559 --> 00:35:18.840
<v Speaker 3>you all join this lobby at the same time. And

690
00:35:18.880 --> 00:35:22.639
<v Speaker 3>when the meeting starts, it flips over five cards, right,

691
00:35:23.280 --> 00:35:27.880
<v Speaker 3>and so it'll be like alligator suitcase ten points, like

692
00:35:28.280 --> 00:35:31.280
<v Speaker 3>let's take the bull by the horn five points or whatever.

693
00:35:32.079 --> 00:35:34.960
<v Speaker 3>And so you get these phrases, and so your goal

694
00:35:35.119 --> 00:35:37.719
<v Speaker 3>is you want to slip one of these phrases into

695
00:35:37.760 --> 00:35:43.280
<v Speaker 3>the meeting without anybody knowing. And so you say the phrase,

696
00:35:43.320 --> 00:35:45.519
<v Speaker 3>you click on the card, and then a little timer

697
00:35:45.559 --> 00:35:48.599
<v Speaker 3>goes by, and if that timer elapses, then cool. You

698
00:35:48.639 --> 00:35:52.400
<v Speaker 3>get the points. However, if somebody catches you, they can

699
00:35:52.440 --> 00:35:54.880
<v Speaker 3>type in the phrase and then they steal your points

700
00:35:54.920 --> 00:35:57.679
<v Speaker 3>from you. So the two ways to play or either

701
00:35:58.000 --> 00:36:01.400
<v Speaker 3>just try to spam it out or just don't like,

702
00:36:01.719 --> 00:36:03.440
<v Speaker 3>just sit back and just pay attention.

703
00:36:03.760 --> 00:36:06.679
<v Speaker 1>Right. Have you ever been threatened with getting fired because

704
00:36:07.239 --> 00:36:08.519
<v Speaker 1>I'm just curious.

705
00:36:08.920 --> 00:36:11.800
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I've been. I've been threatened to get fired for

706
00:36:11.840 --> 00:36:12.760
<v Speaker 3>a lot of reasons.

707
00:36:14.920 --> 00:36:17.679
<v Speaker 1>How I distracted everyone from the content of the meeting.

708
00:36:17.719 --> 00:36:22.280
<v Speaker 2>In one easy I would argue that I'm encouraging your

709
00:36:22.280 --> 00:36:24.360
<v Speaker 2>coworkers to pay more attention and meetings.

710
00:36:26.280 --> 00:36:29.400
<v Speaker 3>You know, they in order to play the game, well,

711
00:36:29.519 --> 00:36:32.639
<v Speaker 3>you have to pay more more close attention. So this

712
00:36:32.760 --> 00:36:35.239
<v Speaker 3>is a productivity tool. If anything, I'm going to sell

713
00:36:35.239 --> 00:36:40.320
<v Speaker 3>it to it. Lancian, I love it.

714
00:36:40.840 --> 00:36:42.679
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that's great. I do you know?

715
00:36:42.800 --> 00:36:45.920
<v Speaker 2>Talking about games, you mentioned jack Box TV, which was

716
00:36:45.960 --> 00:36:48.440
<v Speaker 2>big in the during the pandemic. Oh, is that what

717
00:36:48.679 --> 00:36:53.280
<v Speaker 2>you talk about? A great web client? Anybody's ever played

718
00:36:53.320 --> 00:36:54.760
<v Speaker 2>one of these? It's like one of you has to

719
00:36:54.800 --> 00:36:58.239
<v Speaker 2>own the Jackbox game. It's multiplayer, and then you're on

720
00:36:58.400 --> 00:37:02.199
<v Speaker 2>a streaming zoom or a team's not teams, I mean

721
00:37:02.199 --> 00:37:05.599
<v Speaker 2>you're on one of those, and then that hosts the

722
00:37:05.639 --> 00:37:09.280
<v Speaker 2>game and then all the players play from their phone.

723
00:37:09.480 --> 00:37:13.039
<v Speaker 2>But you don't need you know, it's at works so well. Yeah,

724
00:37:13.239 --> 00:37:16.199
<v Speaker 2>that people forget the magic that's going on there.

725
00:37:16.559 --> 00:37:20.119
<v Speaker 3>And they and they had i mean a couple of

726
00:37:20.159 --> 00:37:23.639
<v Speaker 3>things lined out, you know, to their benefit, right, Like

727
00:37:23.639 --> 00:37:29.760
<v Speaker 3>like Jackbox was cresting at the exact time of you know, pandemic,

728
00:37:29.800 --> 00:37:32.480
<v Speaker 3>and so everyone was playing jack Box, which just happened.

729
00:37:32.840 --> 00:37:35.519
<v Speaker 3>But like, but that's because they were ready for it.

730
00:37:35.719 --> 00:37:40.199
<v Speaker 3>Like they built something that's really stable, they built something

731
00:37:40.199 --> 00:37:42.760
<v Speaker 3>that would work in person, but it would also like

732
00:37:42.840 --> 00:37:45.480
<v Speaker 3>work in any kind of environment. You could play it on,

733
00:37:45.840 --> 00:37:49.960
<v Speaker 3>you can play it from anywhere, and and it like

734
00:37:50.559 --> 00:37:56.440
<v Speaker 3>their growth was because they built something really really strong,

735
00:37:56.719 --> 00:37:59.119
<v Speaker 3>so that when they had it wasn't like this thing

736
00:37:59.159 --> 00:38:01.280
<v Speaker 3>where like, oh no, your thing's really popular and now

737
00:38:01.320 --> 00:38:02.599
<v Speaker 3>it crashes and now it stinks.

738
00:38:02.679 --> 00:38:05.760
<v Speaker 2>Yeah yeah, I don't know that it ever tipped over ever.

739
00:38:05.639 --> 00:38:08.159
<v Speaker 3>And they didn't. And they didn't even like you know,

740
00:38:08.199 --> 00:38:10.320
<v Speaker 3>I mean, they kept their same model, which is like

741
00:38:10.320 --> 00:38:11.880
<v Speaker 3>we're gonna have a pack of five games, and we're

742
00:38:11.920 --> 00:38:13.920
<v Speaker 3>going to just keep selling these like different packs of

743
00:38:13.920 --> 00:38:17.079
<v Speaker 3>five games. But always worked on this idea of like

744
00:38:17.159 --> 00:38:21.360
<v Speaker 3>there's going to be one host and however many players,

745
00:38:21.440 --> 00:38:22.960
<v Speaker 3>like a hundred players, Sure.

746
00:38:22.800 --> 00:38:25.000
<v Speaker 2>Whatever, there's one there's one game that supports like one

747
00:38:25.039 --> 00:38:27.519
<v Speaker 2>hundred players. So I've used that one for like a

748
00:38:27.559 --> 00:38:29.719
<v Speaker 2>team meeting where there was thirty something people and you

749
00:38:29.719 --> 00:38:32.000
<v Speaker 2>could yeah, fire. And this was part of the fun

750
00:38:32.039 --> 00:38:33.840
<v Speaker 2>of doing this, was like, hey, we're gonna get to

751
00:38:33.880 --> 00:38:35.639
<v Speaker 2>some serious stuff, but let's play a game for twenty

752
00:38:35.639 --> 00:38:38.440
<v Speaker 2>minutes first while everybody's getting in, you know, rather than

753
00:38:38.480 --> 00:38:39.239
<v Speaker 2>just sitting around.

754
00:38:39.599 --> 00:38:40.880
<v Speaker 1>Yeah yeah.

755
00:38:40.920 --> 00:38:44.960
<v Speaker 3>And they finally, finally finally made something that it's a

756
00:38:45.000 --> 00:38:49.119
<v Speaker 3>little hacky, but like I have enough of those Jackbox

757
00:38:49.199 --> 00:38:51.480
<v Speaker 3>packs now that like there's a thing called like the

758
00:38:51.599 --> 00:38:54.679
<v Speaker 3>jack Box Launcher, right, so essentially like you bring up

759
00:38:54.679 --> 00:38:56.599
<v Speaker 3>a thing and it has every game that you own,

760
00:38:57.239 --> 00:38:58.679
<v Speaker 3>and then when you click on the.

761
00:38:58.719 --> 00:39:01.880
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, because there's like nine now, like I'm always hunting

762
00:39:01.880 --> 00:39:03.960
<v Speaker 2>for a particular game and I never remember which.

763
00:39:03.840 --> 00:39:08.360
<v Speaker 3>Pack it's really yeah yeah yeah, yeah, sorry commercial.

764
00:39:08.800 --> 00:39:10.199
<v Speaker 1>I can't say that I ever played it.

765
00:39:10.480 --> 00:39:14.719
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that did the you talk about a perfect plua.

766
00:39:15.199 --> 00:39:17.559
<v Speaker 2>Like you go to a web you go to I

767
00:39:17.559 --> 00:39:20.360
<v Speaker 2>think it's Jackbox TV, Slash whatever code it is for

768
00:39:20.400 --> 00:39:22.880
<v Speaker 2>the game you're playing. It's generated on the spot. It

769
00:39:22.960 --> 00:39:26.840
<v Speaker 2>drops into a chrome less browser like it's just and

770
00:39:27.199 --> 00:39:29.719
<v Speaker 2>it is so seamless you never remember.

771
00:39:29.400 --> 00:39:30.159
<v Speaker 1>It's a web page.

772
00:39:30.239 --> 00:39:33.760
<v Speaker 2>You just it is exactly whatever he developer should aspire

773
00:39:33.840 --> 00:39:36.440
<v Speaker 2>to wow in a client.

774
00:39:36.519 --> 00:39:39.719
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, it works really simple, and because it is just

775
00:39:39.800 --> 00:39:43.159
<v Speaker 3>like you go to this Jackbox TV. You don't have

776
00:39:43.719 --> 00:39:46.320
<v Speaker 3>like I remember playing like Space Team, which is fun,

777
00:39:46.800 --> 00:39:49.239
<v Speaker 3>but like but in order to play that with friends,

778
00:39:49.519 --> 00:39:51.679
<v Speaker 3>there's like four minutes of like, oh, you have to

779
00:39:51.719 --> 00:39:54.360
<v Speaker 3>go to this thing and download this thing and then okay,

780
00:39:54.400 --> 00:39:56.440
<v Speaker 3>we have to like whatever, Like, no, you go to

781
00:39:56.480 --> 00:39:58.440
<v Speaker 3>this u ur l, you punched in this code. You

782
00:39:58.440 --> 00:40:02.440
<v Speaker 3>know my my eighty three year old father like can

783
00:40:02.519 --> 00:40:03.519
<v Speaker 3>do it and has.

784
00:40:03.599 --> 00:40:06.400
<v Speaker 2>Can get a comp Yeah, and doesn't matter what phone

785
00:40:06.440 --> 00:40:09.480
<v Speaker 2>you have or you're using a tablet or a second

786
00:40:09.480 --> 00:40:12.559
<v Speaker 2>screen on the PC, like you name it, all of it.

787
00:40:12.639 --> 00:40:14.480
<v Speaker 1>All of those scenarios just worked.

788
00:40:14.719 --> 00:40:16.880
<v Speaker 3>The one thing that it took them too long to

789
00:40:16.960 --> 00:40:21.159
<v Speaker 3>figure out, though, is and is it took them too

790
00:40:21.239 --> 00:40:23.920
<v Speaker 3>long to understand that as a PWA, you actually do

791
00:40:24.000 --> 00:40:27.679
<v Speaker 3>have access to weight control, right, because if you're playing

792
00:40:27.960 --> 00:40:31.360
<v Speaker 3>jack Box, a time can go by where you're just

793
00:40:31.400 --> 00:40:34.679
<v Speaker 3>not touching your phone, sure for a while. Yeah, and

794
00:40:34.760 --> 00:40:38.239
<v Speaker 3>so you know, my my thing goes to sleep pretty fast,

795
00:40:38.519 --> 00:40:41.840
<v Speaker 3>and so sometimes you would be like using the thing

796
00:40:42.000 --> 00:40:43.519
<v Speaker 3>and then it would go to sleep, and then you

797
00:40:43.519 --> 00:40:45.239
<v Speaker 3>would like turn your phone back on and maybe it

798
00:40:45.280 --> 00:40:47.880
<v Speaker 3>lost connection. You have to like reconnect or whatever. Yeah,

799
00:40:47.920 --> 00:40:50.639
<v Speaker 3>And eventually they got on top of that, but like

800
00:40:50.679 --> 00:40:52.239
<v Speaker 3>it did take them a while where it was like.

801
00:40:52.239 --> 00:40:54.559
<v Speaker 2>And it's something that PWA's can't do to say, hey,

802
00:40:54.559 --> 00:40:54.880
<v Speaker 2>can you do?

803
00:40:54.960 --> 00:40:55.800
<v Speaker 1>I don't want you to go to.

804
00:40:55.719 --> 00:40:58.800
<v Speaker 3>Sleep as long as you are properly installed. You can't

805
00:40:58.880 --> 00:41:00.239
<v Speaker 3>just do that from being a website. But as long

806
00:41:00.280 --> 00:41:02.280
<v Speaker 3>as you are installed, then you can get you can

807
00:41:02.320 --> 00:41:05.400
<v Speaker 3>request for and receive permission to control wake access to

808
00:41:05.440 --> 00:41:08.239
<v Speaker 3>basically be like, as long as my app is the

809
00:41:08.280 --> 00:41:11.840
<v Speaker 3>one that is in focus, override these sleep controls.

810
00:41:12.000 --> 00:41:15.000
<v Speaker 2>Okay, And it just seemed its interesting to think go

811
00:41:15.079 --> 00:41:17.599
<v Speaker 2>through the power of getting you know, get past the

812
00:41:17.840 --> 00:41:20.920
<v Speaker 2>icon and get into these other capabilities, like you can

813
00:41:20.960 --> 00:41:21.719
<v Speaker 2>do quite a bit.

814
00:41:22.159 --> 00:41:25.440
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, like like like the idea of like even like

815
00:41:26.320 --> 00:41:29.360
<v Speaker 3>one thing that I always found pretty useful is just

816
00:41:29.400 --> 00:41:32.280
<v Speaker 3>that like native sharing, to be able to say like

817
00:41:32.320 --> 00:41:34.880
<v Speaker 3>I've got my little blob or I've got my text

818
00:41:34.880 --> 00:41:37.480
<v Speaker 3>snippet or I've got my whatever, and I don't know

819
00:41:37.519 --> 00:41:40.679
<v Speaker 3>what you have installed in your machine, but if you

820
00:41:40.679 --> 00:41:42.719
<v Speaker 3>do have Telegram, you can click on this and then

821
00:41:42.760 --> 00:41:44.559
<v Speaker 3>it's like you want to share that via Telegram because

822
00:41:44.599 --> 00:41:45.000
<v Speaker 3>there you go.

823
00:41:45.199 --> 00:41:47.840
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and I think Jackbox even did that, like you

824
00:41:47.880 --> 00:41:50.039
<v Speaker 2>could take a screenshot off off the game from your

825
00:41:50.039 --> 00:41:51.519
<v Speaker 2>phone and fire it up.

826
00:41:51.679 --> 00:41:53.880
<v Speaker 3>Oh yeah, no, they they did. They did things where

827
00:41:54.119 --> 00:41:56.159
<v Speaker 3>and this was this was later on, but they did

828
00:41:56.239 --> 00:41:59.559
<v Speaker 3>the thing where when you finish the game, you got

829
00:41:59.559 --> 00:42:03.119
<v Speaker 3>like little and so it would like create like animated

830
00:42:03.159 --> 00:42:03.920
<v Speaker 3>gifts of like.

831
00:42:04.039 --> 00:42:06.559
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, they gave out awards right for worst player and

832
00:42:06.599 --> 00:42:07.119
<v Speaker 2>how kind of thing.

833
00:42:07.280 --> 00:42:10.320
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, exactly and so and so you know, we're able

834
00:42:10.320 --> 00:42:12.639
<v Speaker 3>to do a thing where you can I don't want

835
00:42:12.639 --> 00:42:15.079
<v Speaker 3>to say the T word, but you know you could.

836
00:42:15.159 --> 00:42:19.239
<v Speaker 3>You could post the thing on blue Sky, right and uh,

837
00:42:19.559 --> 00:42:21.320
<v Speaker 3>you know that's that's smart for them. I don't know

838
00:42:21.360 --> 00:42:22.719
<v Speaker 3>how many people took advantage of it, but.

839
00:42:22.800 --> 00:42:26.800
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, it's cool, absolutely all right. Should we change

840
00:42:26.840 --> 00:42:27.400
<v Speaker 1>gears a bit?

841
00:42:27.760 --> 00:42:28.400
<v Speaker 3>Absolutely?

842
00:42:28.599 --> 00:42:28.840
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

843
00:42:29.000 --> 00:42:31.440
<v Speaker 2>I think I appreciate the sort of scope on that,

844
00:42:31.519 --> 00:42:34.800
<v Speaker 2>and I do like PW PWA Builder, Like for folks

845
00:42:34.840 --> 00:42:36.800
<v Speaker 2>who are still trying to find their way through some

846
00:42:36.840 --> 00:42:38.400
<v Speaker 2>of these things are our tools that can help.

847
00:42:38.440 --> 00:42:38.519
<v Speaker 1>You.

848
00:42:39.960 --> 00:42:43.280
<v Speaker 2>Don't expect anybody isn't using PWA. All of these frameworks

849
00:42:43.360 --> 00:42:46.119
<v Speaker 2>use it to some degree. It's just a built in service.

850
00:42:46.320 --> 00:42:50.000
<v Speaker 2>It's great with Blazer web assembly perhaps. Yeah, yeah, that's

851
00:42:50.000 --> 00:42:52.800
<v Speaker 2>how I build mine. Sure, it's a nice template in there.

852
00:42:53.360 --> 00:42:53.559
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

853
00:42:53.559 --> 00:42:56.760
<v Speaker 3>I think that PWA builder is at least a very

854
00:42:56.800 --> 00:42:59.719
<v Speaker 3>good first step where like it'll give you your first

855
00:42:59.719 --> 00:43:03.079
<v Speaker 3>man and your first service worker. You know, that's probably

856
00:43:03.079 --> 00:43:04.719
<v Speaker 3>not the one you're going to go with, but like

857
00:43:05.480 --> 00:43:06.639
<v Speaker 3>be the one to start with at.

858
00:43:06.559 --> 00:43:09.000
<v Speaker 2>Least get a feel for something what you're experimenting with.

859
00:43:09.840 --> 00:43:11.800
<v Speaker 2>All right, I want to talk about some of these

860
00:43:11.800 --> 00:43:14.840
<v Speaker 2>apps you build, these games and other as you co

861
00:43:14.960 --> 00:43:18.400
<v Speaker 2>refer to them, stupid websites. Yeah, are they just experiments

862
00:43:18.440 --> 00:43:19.599
<v Speaker 2>in software development for you?

863
00:43:19.639 --> 00:43:23.519
<v Speaker 3>They're bulls. I think there's there's two things that have

864
00:43:23.599 --> 00:43:27.039
<v Speaker 3>to come together in order for one of these things

865
00:43:27.039 --> 00:43:30.239
<v Speaker 3>to get off the ground. Actually a third thing is

866
00:43:30.239 --> 00:43:33.840
<v Speaker 3>that it has to be interesting until the end. But

867
00:43:34.079 --> 00:43:39.760
<v Speaker 3>like there's got to be some sort of idea. For example,

868
00:43:39.840 --> 00:43:42.800
<v Speaker 3>Like one that I've abandoned more than once was like

869
00:43:43.559 --> 00:43:46.480
<v Speaker 3>bop it the website You know what to bop it is?

870
00:43:46.559 --> 00:43:46.719
<v Speaker 1>Right?

871
00:43:46.840 --> 00:43:47.320
<v Speaker 3>Little now?

872
00:43:47.320 --> 00:43:47.960
<v Speaker 1>What is that now?

873
00:43:48.159 --> 00:43:51.119
<v Speaker 3>So it's a little plastic piece of crap that they'll

874
00:43:51.159 --> 00:43:55.519
<v Speaker 3>sell it, you know, Walmart or whatever. And and it's

875
00:43:55.559 --> 00:43:57.599
<v Speaker 3>got like a little switch and a knob and a

876
00:43:57.679 --> 00:44:00.440
<v Speaker 3>turney thing and a button or whatever. And then when

877
00:44:00.480 --> 00:44:03.880
<v Speaker 3>you start the game, it goes like bop it persia.

878
00:44:04.400 --> 00:44:06.519
<v Speaker 3>And then like you have these like actions that you're

879
00:44:06.519 --> 00:44:09.519
<v Speaker 3>supposed to do and it and so you you know,

880
00:44:09.559 --> 00:44:12.280
<v Speaker 3>you're supposed to do the right action under a time limit.

881
00:44:12.360 --> 00:44:14.480
<v Speaker 1>So since the tariffs, the price has gone from ninety

882
00:44:14.559 --> 00:44:16.280
<v Speaker 1>nine cents to ninety nine dollars, right.

883
00:44:16.280 --> 00:44:20.559
<v Speaker 3>I would assume, So yeah, yeah, So my idea was

884
00:44:20.679 --> 00:44:23.679
<v Speaker 3>to do something where like you go to a site

885
00:44:23.719 --> 00:44:27.400
<v Speaker 3>that is bad I sort of modeled after ABC News,

886
00:44:28.039 --> 00:44:31.039
<v Speaker 3>and the very first thing that happens is that it

887
00:44:31.159 --> 00:44:36.559
<v Speaker 3>pulls up like a GDPR banner and it goes dismiss it,

888
00:44:37.159 --> 00:44:40.480
<v Speaker 3>and then like, uh, like a you have you have

889
00:44:40.519 --> 00:44:43.000
<v Speaker 3>a time limit to dismiss it. And then once you

890
00:44:43.119 --> 00:44:45.760
<v Speaker 3>do it, then it says like follow us on Instagram,

891
00:44:46.039 --> 00:44:49.639
<v Speaker 3>like a little modal comes up close it, and so

892
00:44:49.719 --> 00:44:53.199
<v Speaker 3>it just so it's trying to give you a task

893
00:44:53.320 --> 00:44:57.639
<v Speaker 3>to solve, but while you're doing it, you're like it

894
00:44:57.760 --> 00:45:02.679
<v Speaker 3>keeps annoying you and and you lose points every millisecond

895
00:45:03.360 --> 00:45:08.119
<v Speaker 3>that this annoyance happens. So anyway, I was building this thing,

896
00:45:08.159 --> 00:45:09.519
<v Speaker 3>and I was like, ah, you know, this is a

897
00:45:09.559 --> 00:45:12.760
<v Speaker 3>cool idea, but it's so big on scope and and

898
00:45:13.280 --> 00:45:17.400
<v Speaker 3>it's a little hard to like to let people understand

899
00:45:17.400 --> 00:45:19.960
<v Speaker 3>like whether where the fun is and so just trying

900
00:45:20.000 --> 00:45:23.480
<v Speaker 3>to figure out like that thing where like it's like

901
00:45:24.039 --> 00:45:27.440
<v Speaker 3>it's it's immediately cognizably fun, like the one that I

902
00:45:27.480 --> 00:45:29.599
<v Speaker 3>did with the there's one that I made where you

903
00:45:29.639 --> 00:45:33.440
<v Speaker 3>have to like rank different celebrities based on their cameo values,

904
00:45:33.679 --> 00:45:40.639
<v Speaker 3>like how how expensive is this person on cameo and

905
00:45:40.639 --> 00:45:42.960
<v Speaker 3>and so so essentially, I want to have an idea

906
00:45:43.000 --> 00:45:45.760
<v Speaker 3>that like that is sticky and that I can kind

907
00:45:45.760 --> 00:45:48.360
<v Speaker 3>of like get in and get out pretty easy. Hopefully

908
00:45:48.360 --> 00:45:51.039
<v Speaker 3>it takes like four minutes to play. And then the

909
00:45:51.079 --> 00:45:53.400
<v Speaker 3>other thing that I wanted to do is something where

910
00:45:53.840 --> 00:45:57.440
<v Speaker 3>there's something I haven't done here before. There's some sort

911
00:45:57.559 --> 00:46:03.320
<v Speaker 3>of you know, like new interface element or or like

912
00:46:04.039 --> 00:46:07.519
<v Speaker 3>new piece of technology that's just unfamiliar to me, so

913
00:46:07.559 --> 00:46:09.480
<v Speaker 3>that I can like use this in a safe space

914
00:46:09.559 --> 00:46:12.760
<v Speaker 3>to be like, if it doesn't work, who cares? And

915
00:46:12.800 --> 00:46:14.719
<v Speaker 3>if it does work, then I've learned how to do

916
00:46:14.800 --> 00:46:15.119
<v Speaker 3>that thing.

917
00:46:15.280 --> 00:46:17.119
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. How many of these things do you have?

918
00:46:18.960 --> 00:46:23.000
<v Speaker 3>Conservatively? About a dozen? Okay, yeah, let's say a dozen.

919
00:46:23.320 --> 00:46:25.440
<v Speaker 1>I'm sorry, I'm stuck on the not poutine side.

920
00:46:25.800 --> 00:46:33.679
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, yeah, okay, gonna tell you that's nottine.

921
00:46:36.000 --> 00:46:38.920
<v Speaker 3>I was watching. I don't know if you've watched Top

922
00:46:39.000 --> 00:46:39.480
<v Speaker 3>Chef at all?

923
00:46:39.840 --> 00:46:42.960
<v Speaker 1>Sure? Oh yeah, Top Chef Canada is the latest one.

924
00:46:42.840 --> 00:46:45.880
<v Speaker 3>Dude, Yes, exactly so they were just in Canada and

925
00:46:45.920 --> 00:46:49.079
<v Speaker 3>they were like, hey, chefs, uh, you're all gonna be

926
00:46:49.239 --> 00:46:52.400
<v Speaker 3>doing like a poutine challenge. And I'm like, oh no,

927
00:46:52.679 --> 00:46:56.360
<v Speaker 3>don't make them do that. And like like one guy

928
00:46:56.480 --> 00:46:59.519
<v Speaker 3>like did like a like a like a like a

929
00:46:59.599 --> 00:47:02.400
<v Speaker 3>scale in pancakes and a burnet sauce.

930
00:47:02.800 --> 00:47:04.079
<v Speaker 1>I know, that's ridiculous.

931
00:47:04.519 --> 00:47:06.519
<v Speaker 3>I was like, this is unacceptable.

932
00:47:06.559 --> 00:47:08.880
<v Speaker 1>So so yeah, like you know what that's like, that's

933
00:47:08.960 --> 00:47:12.800
<v Speaker 1>like taking a Prince solo and just and and instead

934
00:47:12.800 --> 00:47:15.599
<v Speaker 1>of playing it no for note, making up your own stuff.

935
00:47:16.079 --> 00:47:16.880
<v Speaker 1>That's what it's like.

936
00:47:17.079 --> 00:47:21.599
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, yeah, it's it's it's it's an infuriated like like

937
00:47:22.800 --> 00:47:27.320
<v Speaker 4>the idea of poutine has three three ingredients that must

938
00:47:27.360 --> 00:47:30.920
<v Speaker 4>be observed, and at that point you want to throw

939
00:47:31.000 --> 00:47:31.960
<v Speaker 4>pork belly on it.

940
00:47:32.039 --> 00:47:34.320
<v Speaker 1>I know, Okay, go ahead, yeah yeah.

941
00:47:34.079 --> 00:47:37.199
<v Speaker 3>Like you wanna, yeah, you want to throw some scallions

942
00:47:37.239 --> 00:47:41.199
<v Speaker 3>in there? Cool, whatever, But like French fries, fresh cheese curds,

943
00:47:41.199 --> 00:47:43.159
<v Speaker 3>do not fry them.

944
00:47:42.559 --> 00:47:46.360
<v Speaker 5>Squeaky cheese curds, squeaky cheese curds, squeaky cheese, And then

945
00:47:46.400 --> 00:47:49.119
<v Speaker 5>you need some and then you need brown gravy, yes,

946
00:47:49.400 --> 00:47:52.519
<v Speaker 5>and and so so this the whole thing was like,

947
00:47:53.159 --> 00:47:55.840
<v Speaker 5>was just this collection, and some of them very much

948
00:47:55.840 --> 00:48:00.480
<v Speaker 5>are Canadian places that are servingdes that.

949
00:48:00.599 --> 00:48:04.880
<v Speaker 3>Purport to be uh poutine but aren't.

950
00:48:05.320 --> 00:48:05.480
<v Speaker 1>Right.

951
00:48:05.760 --> 00:48:07.800
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean love it. You can go back and

952
00:48:07.800 --> 00:48:10.159
<v Speaker 2>forth on the tater tots or tater tots fries.

953
00:48:10.199 --> 00:48:12.880
<v Speaker 1>I would let that slide, you would, Yeah, I would,

954
00:48:13.239 --> 00:48:16.000
<v Speaker 1>because it's still fried potatoes. It's still fried, but just

955
00:48:16.039 --> 00:48:17.079
<v Speaker 1>in a different shape.

956
00:48:17.159 --> 00:48:20.639
<v Speaker 3>I don't know, Like, okay, well, okay, but where is

957
00:48:20.840 --> 00:48:21.679
<v Speaker 3>where is too far?

958
00:48:21.800 --> 00:48:24.599
<v Speaker 1>Then? Like is where's the line? I wouldn't substitute broccoli?

959
00:48:25.639 --> 00:48:27.079
<v Speaker 3>Are you accepting home fries?

960
00:48:27.599 --> 00:48:30.719
<v Speaker 1>No? Because home fries. Home fries is kind of like

961
00:48:30.760 --> 00:48:34.760
<v Speaker 1>a oh yeah, home fries is potatoes and onions and

962
00:48:34.800 --> 00:48:38.119
<v Speaker 1>all that stuff like mashed up in a mush. Right?

963
00:48:38.519 --> 00:48:44.039
<v Speaker 1>Where are different? Are are our single units that you

964
00:48:44.039 --> 00:48:46.239
<v Speaker 1>can pick up with a fork instead of scooping up

965
00:48:46.280 --> 00:48:49.639
<v Speaker 1>and whatever? Hash browns are the are the opposite of

966
00:48:49.679 --> 00:48:53.360
<v Speaker 1>home fries. Those are the crispy patterns of potatoes. I

967
00:48:53.480 --> 00:48:57.159
<v Speaker 1>don't know as if I would do that either, because

968
00:48:57.360 --> 00:48:59.039
<v Speaker 1>now you have to cut it right. I mean, the

969
00:48:59.079 --> 00:49:01.280
<v Speaker 1>whole idea of a poutin is you could stab it

970
00:49:01.320 --> 00:49:02.559
<v Speaker 1>with a fork and put it in your mouth.

971
00:49:03.119 --> 00:49:06.119
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean it is cheap, but you know there's

972
00:49:06.119 --> 00:49:08.599
<v Speaker 2>a great stretch between it's tough to difn a difference

973
00:49:08.800 --> 00:49:10.360
<v Speaker 2>a potater tot and a roasty.

974
00:49:10.880 --> 00:49:11.079
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

975
00:49:11.159 --> 00:49:12.440
<v Speaker 1>I don't even know what a roasty is.

976
00:49:12.480 --> 00:49:14.639
<v Speaker 2>What's that they think you're describing as a hash brown?

977
00:49:14.760 --> 00:49:14.920
<v Speaker 1>Is that?

978
00:49:15.079 --> 00:49:15.239
<v Speaker 6>Oh?

979
00:49:15.280 --> 00:49:16.119
<v Speaker 1>Okay? Hash brown?

980
00:49:16.199 --> 00:49:18.719
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's a roasty okay, but you know the main

981
00:49:18.719 --> 00:49:19.559
<v Speaker 2>thing is the crispy.

982
00:49:19.719 --> 00:49:19.960
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

983
00:49:20.039 --> 00:49:22.079
<v Speaker 2>And to be clear, we're arguing over food you eat

984
00:49:22.119 --> 00:49:24.639
<v Speaker 2>while drunk in Montreal, right, like absolutely?

985
00:49:27.519 --> 00:49:31.599
<v Speaker 3>Yeah? Like like has every has every poucine that I've

986
00:49:31.599 --> 00:49:33.360
<v Speaker 3>ever eaten been delicious? Yes?

987
00:49:34.000 --> 00:49:37.239
<v Speaker 1>But that's because yes it was. I was I qualified

988
00:49:37.239 --> 00:49:41.199
<v Speaker 1>to a set at the time. No, yeah, if it

989
00:49:41.239 --> 00:49:43.079
<v Speaker 1>was broccoli and Berne's sauce.

990
00:49:45.960 --> 00:49:49.360
<v Speaker 3>Like every every donor I've ever eaten is great, and

991
00:49:49.440 --> 00:49:52.039
<v Speaker 3>I don't think I've ever eaten a donor before midnight.

992
00:49:52.159 --> 00:49:53.719
<v Speaker 1>I don't know what a donor is. You guys got

993
00:49:53.760 --> 00:49:57.840
<v Speaker 1>to educate me here, like a kebab or a like

994
00:49:57.960 --> 00:49:59.840
<v Speaker 1>d O N N E R that kind of thing

995
00:50:00.039 --> 00:50:02.440
<v Speaker 1>c O N They are Yeah, yeah, they are all right.

996
00:50:03.000 --> 00:50:08.679
<v Speaker 2>The varying the name, the spelling exactly got it. The

997
00:50:09.039 --> 00:50:12.480
<v Speaker 2>drunk food you ate in Stockholm after midnight or anywhere.

998
00:50:13.360 --> 00:50:16.320
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, here we have we don't have those, you know,

999
00:50:16.360 --> 00:50:19.239
<v Speaker 1>twenty four hour diners around where I live anymore. There.

1000
00:50:19.239 --> 00:50:25.559
<v Speaker 1>Your only choices are Taco Bell and McDonald's, Wendy's, Burger King, Popeyes.

1001
00:50:25.679 --> 00:50:27.000
<v Speaker 1>That's it. Late nights.

1002
00:50:27.159 --> 00:50:30.679
<v Speaker 3>It's just I remember, like I remember at one point

1003
00:50:31.400 --> 00:50:34.679
<v Speaker 3>that's however, many of us and we're in Oslo and

1004
00:50:34.760 --> 00:50:38.920
<v Speaker 3>we go to this donor place, eat donor. It's wonderful. Uh.

1005
00:50:39.039 --> 00:50:41.320
<v Speaker 3>Then we continue to go out drinking. We go back,

1006
00:50:41.440 --> 00:50:43.119
<v Speaker 3>and then as we're on our way back to the hotel,

1007
00:50:43.119 --> 00:50:46.360
<v Speaker 3>it's like, let's get donor again. Yeah, of course the

1008
00:50:46.400 --> 00:50:49.320
<v Speaker 3>donor place that we went to is closed, but there's

1009
00:50:49.360 --> 00:50:51.880
<v Speaker 3>a donor place right next to it, like literally next

1010
00:50:51.880 --> 00:50:56.119
<v Speaker 3>door that is open. And it was worse, but like

1011
00:50:56.280 --> 00:50:56.880
<v Speaker 3>you know, it's still.

1012
00:50:56.880 --> 00:50:59.360
<v Speaker 1>Don't I know which places you're talking exactly. It's rich

1013
00:50:59.400 --> 00:51:01.159
<v Speaker 1>and rich and I have been there.

1014
00:51:01.239 --> 00:51:03.840
<v Speaker 3>And like we're talking to him at one point and

1015
00:51:04.119 --> 00:51:07.320
<v Speaker 3>it's like he's like the guy was like, yeah, we

1016
00:51:07.360 --> 00:51:11.440
<v Speaker 3>open at one because we found out these knuckleheads like

1017
00:51:11.559 --> 00:51:14.639
<v Speaker 3>close at one, like you're leaving money on the table.

1018
00:51:15.360 --> 00:51:17.679
<v Speaker 1>People don't go to bed at one in Oslo.

1019
00:51:17.480 --> 00:51:20.480
<v Speaker 3>Exactly on Saturday night.

1020
00:51:20.599 --> 00:51:26.840
<v Speaker 1>It's just a mistake. When are you thinking, what was

1021
00:51:27.679 --> 00:51:33.039
<v Speaker 1>the best your best pub comp talk in your opinion?

1022
00:51:33.400 --> 00:51:39.480
<v Speaker 3>Oh man, So this requires a slight backstory. I'll try to.

1023
00:51:39.519 --> 00:51:42.599
<v Speaker 3>I'll try to, I'll try to speed through it. But

1024
00:51:43.239 --> 00:51:49.880
<v Speaker 3>I'm doing NBC Minnesota. And and I had this idea,

1025
00:51:50.079 --> 00:51:52.239
<v Speaker 3>and I had this really ambitious talk that I was

1026
00:51:52.280 --> 00:51:59.800
<v Speaker 3>going to do, and I was terrible, legitimately terrible, like

1027
00:51:59.840 --> 00:52:03.840
<v Speaker 3>just a bad talk, Like insofar as like you know,

1028
00:52:03.880 --> 00:52:06.760
<v Speaker 3>how there's there's for those who don't know that there's

1029
00:52:07.320 --> 00:52:09.159
<v Speaker 3>NDC will do a thing where they have like red

1030
00:52:09.199 --> 00:52:12.960
<v Speaker 3>and yellow and green cards, so like people will score

1031
00:52:13.119 --> 00:52:15.719
<v Speaker 3>like how well you did? And so as I'm sort

1032
00:52:15.719 --> 00:52:17.440
<v Speaker 3>of collecting my things at the end of the talk,

1033
00:52:18.320 --> 00:52:20.679
<v Speaker 3>and I know, I know this didn't go well.

1034
00:52:21.519 --> 00:52:23.920
<v Speaker 1>This isn't a PUBCNS talk. This is a regular talk.

1035
00:52:24.000 --> 00:52:24.840
<v Speaker 3>No, this is NDC.

1036
00:52:25.119 --> 00:52:26.400
<v Speaker 1>Yeah yeah, yeah, okay.

1037
00:52:26.639 --> 00:52:29.639
<v Speaker 3>And and as I'm sort of collecting my things and

1038
00:52:29.679 --> 00:52:33.039
<v Speaker 3>sort of, you know, being shell shocked, one of the

1039
00:52:33.119 --> 00:52:37.960
<v Speaker 3>volunteers walks up to me. He's collected all the cards,

1040
00:52:38.639 --> 00:52:40.320
<v Speaker 3>and he goes that, do you not want to know

1041
00:52:40.360 --> 00:52:45.079
<v Speaker 3>how you did? And I'm like what, and he goes, you.

1042
00:52:44.960 --> 00:52:50.760
<v Speaker 1>Did bad, and he holds up a stack of red cards.

1043
00:52:50.840 --> 00:52:56.519
<v Speaker 3>Right, thanks for looking out, But I appreciate that. So

1044
00:52:56.639 --> 00:53:00.239
<v Speaker 3>I I mean, yeah, so I you know, I'm in

1045
00:53:00.280 --> 00:53:02.559
<v Speaker 3>Saint Paul, which is close enough to my home that

1046
00:53:02.639 --> 00:53:04.679
<v Speaker 3>I don't have a hotel, but far enough away that

1047
00:53:04.719 --> 00:53:06.639
<v Speaker 3>like in order to get back and come back would

1048
00:53:06.679 --> 00:53:10.239
<v Speaker 3>be inconvenient. Yeah, And so I just like spend you know,

1049
00:53:10.360 --> 00:53:14.280
<v Speaker 3>several hours like having a panic attack, and then but

1050
00:53:14.360 --> 00:53:19.440
<v Speaker 3>I need to do a pubcom talk after that, and

1051
00:53:19.440 --> 00:53:21.119
<v Speaker 3>and so I'm just you know, sort of like in

1052
00:53:21.159 --> 00:53:26.119
<v Speaker 3>a weird place. And and and as it's starting off,

1053
00:53:26.159 --> 00:53:28.199
<v Speaker 3>I'm like still in a weird place. And then the

1054
00:53:28.480 --> 00:53:33.079
<v Speaker 3>moment I get handed the microphone to do my five minutes,

1055
00:53:33.559 --> 00:53:36.360
<v Speaker 3>like I was just like, okay, yep, I absolutely have this.

1056
00:53:36.440 --> 00:53:40.880
<v Speaker 3>I I yep, this is I'm going to kill these

1057
00:53:40.880 --> 00:53:44.519
<v Speaker 3>people for five minutes. And so I did this talk

1058
00:53:44.559 --> 00:53:47.960
<v Speaker 3>about how to please your VP by hating your user,

1059
00:53:50.199 --> 00:53:53.079
<v Speaker 3>and it was just like it was just like what

1060
00:53:53.320 --> 00:53:57.920
<v Speaker 3>if every suggestion that your VP made you just did.

1061
00:53:59.280 --> 00:54:01.360
<v Speaker 3>And so we started we show a website and then

1062
00:54:01.400 --> 00:54:03.280
<v Speaker 3>the website just gets worse and worse because like I

1063
00:54:03.360 --> 00:54:05.519
<v Speaker 3>keep saying yes to him, you know when he kind

1064
00:54:05.519 --> 00:54:07.519
<v Speaker 3>of like points at the screen. I'm like, yep, absolutely

1065
00:54:07.559 --> 00:54:15.239
<v Speaker 3>boss right, and uh yeah, and so that went so good,

1066
00:54:15.440 --> 00:54:17.440
<v Speaker 3>like so so good.

1067
00:54:18.360 --> 00:54:20.239
<v Speaker 1>Honestly one I did.

1068
00:54:20.360 --> 00:54:22.599
<v Speaker 3>I did win. Yeah, but I'm like, I'm not I'm

1069
00:54:22.639 --> 00:54:25.760
<v Speaker 3>not exaggerating that. Like people were literally chanting my name.

1070
00:54:26.079 --> 00:54:27.199
<v Speaker 1>Wow. Wow.

1071
00:54:27.320 --> 00:54:31.199
<v Speaker 3>There was a point where John Mills in the final

1072
00:54:33.000 --> 00:54:35.079
<v Speaker 3>So this the the you do the sort of your

1073
00:54:35.079 --> 00:54:37.320
<v Speaker 3>prepared version of then you do a version that's not prepared.

1074
00:54:37.960 --> 00:54:40.199
<v Speaker 3>And so there was a there was a point where

1075
00:54:40.320 --> 00:54:45.960
<v Speaker 3>I do my final performance and then after me is

1076
00:54:46.079 --> 00:54:49.480
<v Speaker 3>John Mills, and like he does a joke and it

1077
00:54:49.559 --> 00:54:51.400
<v Speaker 3>lands pretty good. He loves a joke and it lands

1078
00:54:51.440 --> 00:54:54.159
<v Speaker 3>not quite as good, and he goes, listen, folks, I'm

1079
00:54:54.199 --> 00:54:56.840
<v Speaker 3>just trying to get in second here. Okay, we just

1080
00:54:56.920 --> 00:54:57.280
<v Speaker 3>let me.

1081
00:54:57.239 --> 00:55:04.039
<v Speaker 1>Get in here. This is gonna go. You know, something

1082
00:55:04.079 --> 00:55:06.760
<v Speaker 1>just occurred to me. You you have a you're a

1083
00:55:06.840 --> 00:55:11.079
<v Speaker 1>doppel ganger of Michael Keaton? Am I wrong? Has anybody

1084
00:55:11.119 --> 00:55:14.239
<v Speaker 1>ever said you look like Michael Keaton? I've never heard that.

1085
00:55:14.320 --> 00:55:15.960
<v Speaker 1>I mean before Beetlejuice.

1086
00:55:16.239 --> 00:55:19.920
<v Speaker 3>Okay, okay, before both Beatle Juice.

1087
00:55:19.960 --> 00:55:23.159
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Yeah, when he was younger, right, Okay, you look

1088
00:55:23.239 --> 00:55:25.679
<v Speaker 1>like a young version of Michael Keat's the eyebrows, I think.

1089
00:55:25.719 --> 00:55:29.280
<v Speaker 3>All right, I mean I'm gonna I've never heard that really,

1090
00:55:29.840 --> 00:55:33.000
<v Speaker 3>so no, yeah, yeah, I got I got for years

1091
00:55:33.039 --> 00:55:34.960
<v Speaker 3>and years, I got Jack White a lot.

1092
00:55:36.199 --> 00:55:37.880
<v Speaker 1>Okay, but yeah.

1093
00:55:37.599 --> 00:55:39.199
<v Speaker 3>He started to kind of start to look like Ho

1094
00:55:39.360 --> 00:55:39.920
<v Speaker 3>Chi minh.

1095
00:55:39.800 --> 00:55:43.480
<v Speaker 1>And sorry, yeah he went through different looks. Yeah. Yeah,

1096
00:55:43.559 --> 00:55:46.280
<v Speaker 1>Well anyway, let mean, it's been a pleasure talking to

1097
00:55:46.280 --> 00:55:48.079
<v Speaker 1>you and hanging out. I wish we could do it

1098
00:55:48.280 --> 00:55:51.719
<v Speaker 1>all the time. You know, I'm available, Let's do it

1099
00:55:51.960 --> 00:55:54.440
<v Speaker 1>and for longer. And I know our listeners really loved it.

1100
00:55:54.519 --> 00:55:57.639
<v Speaker 1>So thank you, oh, thank you both. All right, and

1101
00:55:57.679 --> 00:56:23.079
<v Speaker 1>we'll talk to you next time on dot rocks dot net.

1102
00:56:23.159 --> 00:56:26.119
<v Speaker 1>Rocks is brought to you by Franklin's Net and produced

1103
00:56:26.119 --> 00:56:29.880
<v Speaker 1>by Pop Studios, a full service audio, video and post

1104
00:56:29.920 --> 00:56:34.119
<v Speaker 1>production facility located physically in New London, Connecticut, and of

1105
00:56:34.159 --> 00:56:38.599
<v Speaker 1>course in the cloud online at pwop dot com.

1106
00:56:38.840 --> 00:56:40.960
<v Speaker 6>Visit our website at d O T N E t

1107
00:56:41.199 --> 00:56:45.199
<v Speaker 6>R O c k S dot com for RSS feeds, downloads,

1108
00:56:45.360 --> 00:56:49.039
<v Speaker 6>mobile apps, comments, and access to the full archives going

1109
00:56:49.079 --> 00:56:52.480
<v Speaker 6>back to show number one, recorded in September two thousand

1110
00:56:52.480 --> 00:56:55.159
<v Speaker 6>and two, and make sure you check out our sponsors.

1111
00:56:55.280 --> 00:56:58.320
<v Speaker 1>They keep us in business. Now go write some code,

1112
00:56:58.639 --> 00:56:59.400
<v Speaker 1>See you next time.

1113
00:57:00.480 --> 00:57:02.760
<v Speaker 5>Chapters Middle Vans Day

1114
00:57:04.280 --> 00:57:10.039
<v Speaker 1>A summer time that mess hard than my taxes in

1115
00:57:10.320 --> 00:57:10.639
<v Speaker 1>line