WEBVTT 1 00:00:07.160 --> 00:00:10.640 It takes a shocking event to inspire a film, but 2 00:00:10.720 --> 00:00:14.400 that's exactly what happened in the case of the Backpacker murders. 3 00:00:15.640 --> 00:00:18.960 This high profile case struck fear into the hearts of 4 00:00:19.039 --> 00:00:24.960 all of Australia when several hitchhikers mysteriously disappeared, and mind you, 5 00:00:25.679 --> 00:00:29.879 hitchhiking was still widely considered safe at this time. The 6 00:00:30.000 --> 00:00:34.439 terror surrounding the case eventually inspired the film Wolf Creek, 7 00:00:35.240 --> 00:00:38.439 but the real life horror came from the name behind 8 00:00:38.439 --> 00:00:43.159 it all. This is the story of Ivan Milat and 9 00:00:43.200 --> 00:00:44.439 the Backpacker Murders. 10 00:00:45.960 --> 00:00:49.359 My name's Ben, I'm Nicole, and you're listening to Wicked 11 00:00:49.399 --> 00:00:51.359 and Grim, a true crime podcast. 12 00:00:53.520 --> 00:00:59.920 The following podcast and material for a mature audience. 13 00:01:00.759 --> 00:01:01.079 Listen. 14 00:01:20.680 --> 00:01:22.879 I have had this case on my list for a 15 00:01:23.120 --> 00:01:26.519 long time, have you I have. I've done research over 16 00:01:26.599 --> 00:01:28.840 and over and over again for it, and then i 17 00:01:28.840 --> 00:01:31.319 found myself being like, I'm too far down a rabbit hole, 18 00:01:31.359 --> 00:01:33.840 and I've got like a day to get a podcast together, 19 00:01:34.359 --> 00:01:36.560 So then I swap out and do a different case 20 00:01:36.599 --> 00:01:39.239 and put this one on the back burner, sort of say, 21 00:01:39.920 --> 00:01:42.640 and here we are finally awesome. I'd probably put this 22 00:01:42.640 --> 00:01:44.719 one on the back burner. I bet you about a 23 00:01:44.760 --> 00:01:45.719 dozen times. 24 00:01:45.760 --> 00:01:48.480 Really, Okay, yes, so this is gonna be good. 25 00:01:48.519 --> 00:01:52.439 Then this is quite the ride. Hm, it's quite the ride. 26 00:01:52.640 --> 00:01:54.920 Like I said, it actually inspired the movie, the horror 27 00:01:54.959 --> 00:01:56.799 movie Wolf Creek. 28 00:01:57.400 --> 00:02:00.799 Okay, I don't think I've seen that movie. I don't 29 00:02:00.799 --> 00:02:01.200 think so. 30 00:02:01.480 --> 00:02:02.480 Well, it is honor. 31 00:02:02.640 --> 00:02:03.760 We will have to watch it tonight. 32 00:02:03.799 --> 00:02:07.280 It is on our list today for Patreon, so you 33 00:02:07.319 --> 00:02:09.719 are going to be watching it if you don't know. 34 00:02:10.240 --> 00:02:13.280 We are doing a countdown of thirty one Halloween movies, 35 00:02:14.280 --> 00:02:17.719 so a movie per day all through October. We've been 36 00:02:17.719 --> 00:02:20.159 posting each day a new movie to check out over 37 00:02:20.199 --> 00:02:23.800 on Patreon, and the movie Wolf Creek is today's. 38 00:02:23.439 --> 00:02:26.560 Movie on Patreon. Yeah, yeah, right on which. 39 00:02:26.560 --> 00:02:28.840 Speaking of Patreon, we should actually thank our patrons who 40 00:02:28.879 --> 00:02:29.800 signed up this week. 41 00:02:29.919 --> 00:02:31.280 Yeah, we have a couple we did. 42 00:02:31.319 --> 00:02:35.879 We have Macy Smith and McKenna Anderson. Thank you so 43 00:02:35.960 --> 00:02:37.360 much for doing us from Patreon. 44 00:02:37.560 --> 00:02:38.240 That's awesome. 45 00:02:39.560 --> 00:02:41.960 We have something else to talk about. What do we do? Yesterday? 46 00:02:43.039 --> 00:02:45.159 Oh? I was like, we do? What the heck elks 47 00:02:45.159 --> 00:02:49.599 do you have to talk about? We did our annual 48 00:02:49.680 --> 00:02:52.919 Halloween photo shoot. We did Yeah, and it went quite well. 49 00:02:52.960 --> 00:02:55.560 It did. We actually involved the dogs and they relatively 50 00:02:55.560 --> 00:02:56.319 behave themselves. 51 00:02:56.319 --> 00:02:58.360 Well, Honey did far better than Ripley. 52 00:02:58.439 --> 00:03:01.439 Yeah, Ripley was. Ripley doesn't like to listen. She doesn't 53 00:03:01.479 --> 00:03:04.400 like to do what she's told. She doesn't like to 54 00:03:04.879 --> 00:03:06.400 if you have a treat in your hand or something, 55 00:03:06.439 --> 00:03:09.680 she is the goodest girl. But if you just tell 56 00:03:09.680 --> 00:03:10.879 her to do something, she's like. 57 00:03:10.960 --> 00:03:14.840 No, she's just busy, and she just likes to explore everything. 58 00:03:14.879 --> 00:03:16.560 And if you get in the way of that, like, 59 00:03:17.319 --> 00:03:17.879 fuck off. 60 00:03:17.919 --> 00:03:22.120 Basically pretty much that is the definition of huskies right there. 61 00:03:22.240 --> 00:03:26.240 If you're in the way of them, fuck off. But yeah, 62 00:03:26.240 --> 00:03:29.000 I went good. So we are gonna be posting the 63 00:03:29.039 --> 00:03:33.280 photos pretty soon over on Instagram, Facebook and our socials, 64 00:03:33.280 --> 00:03:35.000 so you can go check those out because we do 65 00:03:35.080 --> 00:03:38.280 an annual one every year. Last year, Nicole, you killed me. 66 00:03:38.199 --> 00:03:40.599 As a son, I did. Yeah, that one is for 67 00:03:40.680 --> 00:03:42.960 the books. This one's a bit more chill. It's a 68 00:03:42.960 --> 00:03:45.240 bit more chill, I would say. This year. Oh, it's 69 00:03:45.240 --> 00:03:46.919 definitely really awesome. 70 00:03:47.039 --> 00:03:49.080 Well, in the year before that, we did like face 71 00:03:49.080 --> 00:03:51.199 painted skeletons and stuff and got like all. 72 00:03:51.159 --> 00:03:54.319 No, I don't I think, Oh, was that or when 73 00:03:54.360 --> 00:03:56.360 did we do the pumpkin I think that was the 74 00:03:56.439 --> 00:04:01.639 year before Okay, now I'm not sure anyway, and ghosts. 75 00:04:01.360 --> 00:04:04.360 And ghosts, Yeah, but we we do Halloween shoot every year, 76 00:04:04.759 --> 00:04:07.520 so this year, yeah, we went all that last year, 77 00:04:07.560 --> 00:04:09.199 so we went a little bit more relaxed this year. 78 00:04:09.439 --> 00:04:10.560 Just fun and comfy. 79 00:04:10.800 --> 00:04:11.960 Yeah, it was fun. 80 00:04:12.080 --> 00:04:14.280 It was so that. Yeah, like I said, I digress. 81 00:04:14.400 --> 00:04:16.160 Those ann be coming out soon, but I think we 82 00:04:16.160 --> 00:04:18.639 should get to this case. What do you think? Yeah, okay, 83 00:04:18.920 --> 00:04:20.199 talk for a minute, tho, because I got to get 84 00:04:20.240 --> 00:04:20.639 a sip of. 85 00:04:20.560 --> 00:04:22.480 Cock for I was going to ask you. Do you 86 00:04:22.480 --> 00:04:24.920 think that we're ever going to run out of ideas 87 00:04:25.079 --> 00:04:26.199 for these photo shoots? Oh? 88 00:04:26.360 --> 00:04:27.439 Yes? Probably? 89 00:04:27.560 --> 00:04:30.040 Oh really Okay, I thought for sure you'd be like, no, no, 90 00:04:30.199 --> 00:04:32.519 I got like ten my back pocket here. 91 00:04:32.560 --> 00:04:35.600 But I'm already at loss for what to do next year. 92 00:04:35.800 --> 00:04:37.120 But we'll figure it out. 93 00:04:37.199 --> 00:04:40.360 You haven't even thought about it, probably, touche? I have? There? 94 00:04:40.399 --> 00:04:40.639 You go? 95 00:04:40.839 --> 00:04:42.079 Or have I? Yes? 96 00:04:42.120 --> 00:04:44.399 I have? Maybe I should I should think of something. 97 00:04:44.399 --> 00:04:45.439 Maybe you should. 98 00:04:45.759 --> 00:04:48.079 Well yeah, but good God knows what you'd be doing. 99 00:04:49.199 --> 00:04:51.079 Maybe I should maybe maybe I should? 100 00:04:51.120 --> 00:04:54.040 Yeah, never mind, we would do like ghosts again, but 101 00:04:54.120 --> 00:04:57.839 with like really florally sheets. 102 00:04:57.879 --> 00:04:58.600 I'd be fine with that. 103 00:04:58.800 --> 00:05:00.480 I think that would be so fun. 104 00:05:01.279 --> 00:05:03.600 Okay, let's get on with this. So this is the 105 00:05:03.680 --> 00:05:07.279 Wolf Creek Killer because of the movie Wolf Creek aka 106 00:05:07.319 --> 00:05:12.240 The Backpack Murders aka the story of Ivan Millett. So 107 00:05:12.279 --> 00:05:15.279 on September nineteenth, nineteen ninety two, it was warm and 108 00:05:15.319 --> 00:05:19.720 sunny day. Two runners were orienteering in the Bolongo State 109 00:05:19.800 --> 00:05:23.439 Forest area in Australia. Now, the peaceful atmosphere of the 110 00:05:23.439 --> 00:05:27.480 forest quickly turned to a very grim situation. As they 111 00:05:27.519 --> 00:05:32.680 approached the location ominously known as Executioners Drop. In the 112 00:05:32.680 --> 00:05:35.160 stillness of the day, they were suddenly overwhelmed by the 113 00:05:35.199 --> 00:05:40.480 foul and very familiar stench of decay. They assumed at 114 00:05:40.519 --> 00:05:42.839 first that it came from a dead animal somewhere nearby 115 00:05:42.879 --> 00:05:45.759 in the bushes. However, what they stumbled upon was far 116 00:05:45.839 --> 00:05:49.680 more terrifying than they could ever have imagined. As they 117 00:05:49.680 --> 00:05:53.199 slowed down, the runners spotted a shallow grave and inside 118 00:05:53.199 --> 00:05:56.959 there were two bodies, two women, both lying face down 119 00:05:57.000 --> 00:06:01.240 with their hands bound behind their backed. By the discovery, 120 00:06:01.319 --> 00:06:04.519 they immediately left the area and notified authorities. 121 00:06:04.800 --> 00:06:07.279 Holy shit, Hey, what a way to start your day. 122 00:06:07.360 --> 00:06:10.120 Yeah, no kidding. When police arrived at the scene, they 123 00:06:10.199 --> 00:06:13.240 found the women's bodies partially covered by leaves and brush. 124 00:06:13.560 --> 00:06:16.680 The state of their decomposition was so advanced that identifying 125 00:06:16.720 --> 00:06:22.040 them by sight alone was absolutely impossible. Nearby officers discovered 126 00:06:22.040 --> 00:06:26.480 a makeshift fire pit, along with numerous cigarette butts and 127 00:06:26.560 --> 00:06:31.439 several spent twenty two caliber shell casings scattered around the site. Well, 128 00:06:31.439 --> 00:06:36.319 it might seem like little evidence to put to us, like, 129 00:06:36.360 --> 00:06:38.959 you know, that's not a whole lot. Sure, of course, 130 00:06:39.000 --> 00:06:41.279 you know, you got some bullets, shells, some cigarette butts, 131 00:06:41.279 --> 00:06:43.800 maybe DNA or something. But the scene alone, it doesn't 132 00:06:43.839 --> 00:06:47.879 really tell a whole lot of a story. But to 133 00:06:48.040 --> 00:06:51.680 investigators it painted a very clear picture. The items left 134 00:06:51.720 --> 00:06:54.160 behind suggested that whoever had committed the crime had spent 135 00:06:54.279 --> 00:06:58.879 a significant time in the forest, unhurried, undeterred by the 136 00:06:58.959 --> 00:07:02.439 risks of being caught. They sat there, they made a fire, 137 00:07:03.079 --> 00:07:07.279 they relaxed by the fire, smoked cigarettes, perhaps even killed 138 00:07:07.279 --> 00:07:11.160 their victims then and there and buried them, maybe even 139 00:07:11.199 --> 00:07:15.199 relaxing afterwards as well. Jeez, that's the picture of painted 140 00:07:15.240 --> 00:07:18.920 to authorities. Yeah, it wasn't long before the two victims 141 00:07:18.959 --> 00:07:23.680 were identified through forensic work. It was Caroline Clark, who 142 00:07:23.720 --> 00:07:26.160 was twenty one years old, and Juanne Walters, who is 143 00:07:26.160 --> 00:07:31.920 twenty two, Both British nationals. Carolyn and Joanne, they traveled 144 00:07:31.920 --> 00:07:34.879 to Sydney together earlier that year, hoping to find work 145 00:07:34.879 --> 00:07:38.000 as nanny's. They had been missing since May of nineteen 146 00:07:38.079 --> 00:07:40.639 ninety two, and their tragic discovery marked a set of 147 00:07:40.680 --> 00:07:47.560 Australia's most infamous murder investigation. When the coroner examined the 148 00:07:47.600 --> 00:07:50.439 bodies of Carolyn Clark and Joanne Walters, the full extent 149 00:07:50.480 --> 00:07:54.360 of the brutality that they endured became horrifyingly clear. The 150 00:07:54.399 --> 00:07:59.519 details uncovered during the autopsies painted a picture of torture 151 00:08:00.399 --> 00:08:05.279 and horrific deaths. Joanne had been bound and gagged, then 152 00:08:05.399 --> 00:08:10.160 viciously stabbed multiple times over. One of the stab wounds 153 00:08:10.199 --> 00:08:14.199 had been so severe and so deep that it severed 154 00:08:14.240 --> 00:08:19.879 her spinal core, wowing her paralyzed as the attack continued. 155 00:08:20.000 --> 00:08:24.600 Oh my gosh, this injury would have rendered her absolutely 156 00:08:24.600 --> 00:08:28.480 defenseless against the ongoing assault. Investigators also noted that her 157 00:08:28.480 --> 00:08:31.240 pants were found with the zipper down, but the button 158 00:08:31.399 --> 00:08:34.360 fastened up, leading them to believe that her clothes had 159 00:08:34.399 --> 00:08:36.960 been removed and then hastily redressed. 160 00:08:37.120 --> 00:08:39.759 Okay, yep, I was like, what does that mean? But yeah, 161 00:08:39.840 --> 00:08:40.480 that makes sense. 162 00:08:41.240 --> 00:08:45.360 Carolyn Clark faced an equally nightmarish fate. In addition to 163 00:08:45.399 --> 00:08:47.799 being stabbed as well, Carolyn had been shot in the 164 00:08:47.840 --> 00:08:52.120 head at least ten times with a twenty two caliber rifle. 165 00:08:53.080 --> 00:08:57.440 Four bullets remained lodged inside of her skull, which investigators 166 00:08:57.440 --> 00:09:01.279 collected as evidence. The pattern of unshot suggested that she 167 00:09:01.360 --> 00:09:06.840 had been used for target practice, though determining which shot 168 00:09:06.879 --> 00:09:11.039 had ultimately been fatal was impossible, So essentially, it is 169 00:09:11.240 --> 00:09:14.440 more than likely that this individual sat back at the 170 00:09:14.440 --> 00:09:17.519 fire using her as target practice as he was relaxing. 171 00:09:17.840 --> 00:09:25.120 Holy shit, that is like next level brutal. Yeah, oh 172 00:09:25.200 --> 00:09:26.879 my goodness, gracious. Okay. 173 00:09:27.240 --> 00:09:29.840 Now, I have mentioned this on the podcast before, but 174 00:09:29.960 --> 00:09:34.799 twenty two caliber bullets are notorious for being used in 175 00:09:34.960 --> 00:09:38.039 mob executions back in the day. Now this was due 176 00:09:38.080 --> 00:09:39.960 to their small size and the fact that they often 177 00:09:40.000 --> 00:09:43.279 remained lodged inside the skull rather than exiting the body, 178 00:09:43.919 --> 00:09:46.600 so when being shot in the head, the bullet had 179 00:09:46.679 --> 00:09:48.919 enough power to break through the skull, but not exit 180 00:09:48.960 --> 00:09:51.440 through the skull. Again, so it would enter the skull, 181 00:09:51.799 --> 00:09:54.759 bounce around inside, ensuring it like scrambled the brains, ensuring 182 00:09:54.799 --> 00:09:58.960 it killed the person right. And also since it didn't exit, 183 00:09:59.000 --> 00:10:03.279 it made for easier clean So I mean, I digress 184 00:10:03.279 --> 00:10:05.480 a little bit, but it's not surprising to think that 185 00:10:05.519 --> 00:10:08.360 a twenty two colored bullet, twenty two caliber bullet, there 186 00:10:08.559 --> 00:10:11.679 we go, would be lodged inside the skull, as they 187 00:10:11.720 --> 00:10:12.879 are notorious for this. 188 00:10:13.360 --> 00:10:13.720 Okay. 189 00:10:14.679 --> 00:10:18.279 So, following the grim discovery of the bodies, investigators expanded 190 00:10:18.320 --> 00:10:21.159 their search in the surrounding area, hoping to uncover further 191 00:10:21.200 --> 00:10:25.360 evidence or even worse, additional victims. However, after an extensive 192 00:10:25.399 --> 00:10:28.080 sweep of the forest, no other remains of significant leads 193 00:10:28.080 --> 00:10:31.799 were found. The lack of additional physical evidence left police 194 00:10:32.039 --> 00:10:35.039 with no more questions or sorry, no more answers, just 195 00:10:35.080 --> 00:10:39.440 more questions. As news of the double homicide began to spread, 196 00:10:39.559 --> 00:10:42.360 local communities began to fear the possibility of a serial 197 00:10:42.440 --> 00:10:46.320 killer lurking in Polongo State forest. Some pointed to the 198 00:10:46.320 --> 00:10:49.200 increasing number of missing hitchhikers in the region over the 199 00:10:49.240 --> 00:10:52.559 past few years as evidence of a pattern. But despite 200 00:10:52.559 --> 00:10:56.399 these concerns, authorities initially dismissed the idea that a serial 201 00:10:56.480 --> 00:10:59.000 killer was responsible for these At the time, there was 202 00:10:59.039 --> 00:11:02.240 no solid evidence suggests that such a crime had occurred before, 203 00:11:02.639 --> 00:11:05.879 leaving police hesitant to jump to conclusions and just understanding 204 00:11:05.919 --> 00:11:08.960 they had a single case of murder on their hands, 205 00:11:09.000 --> 00:11:13.480 not a serial killer. Now, despite the evidence collected from 206 00:11:13.480 --> 00:11:17.639 the bodies of Joanne and Carolyn and from the surrounding 207 00:11:17.679 --> 00:11:20.960 area in the forest, police found themselves at a stand 208 00:11:21.120 --> 00:11:24.639 still with the investigation. Clues from the crime scene offered 209 00:11:25.440 --> 00:11:29.200 very little in the way of concrete leads as to 210 00:11:29.240 --> 00:11:32.960 who might actually be responsible for responsible for this. In 211 00:11:33.000 --> 00:11:35.320 their efforts to gain more insight into the killer's behavior, 212 00:11:35.360 --> 00:11:39.480 investigators consulted doctor Rod Milton, who was a seasoned forensic 213 00:11:39.480 --> 00:11:42.080 psychiatrists who had worked with the New South Wales Police 214 00:11:42.080 --> 00:11:45.799 Force for over two decades at this point. Given his 215 00:11:45.919 --> 00:11:49.559 extensive experience in crime scene analysis, authorities believe that doctor 216 00:11:49.600 --> 00:11:53.600 Milton might be able to help develop a psychological profile 217 00:11:53.799 --> 00:11:56.399 of this perpetrator that they're trying to deal with and find. 218 00:11:57.519 --> 00:12:01.039 So when doctor Milton was brought into the investigation, he 219 00:12:01.120 --> 00:12:05.039 visited the scene with the investigators. He meticulously walked through 220 00:12:05.080 --> 00:12:07.759 and combed the area where the bodies had been discovered, 221 00:12:08.279 --> 00:12:11.799 taking note of the terrain, the whole forest, its isolation, 222 00:12:12.519 --> 00:12:15.120 and any possible reason that the killer might have chosen 223 00:12:15.159 --> 00:12:18.879 that particular spot. He also studied detailed photographs of the 224 00:12:18.919 --> 00:12:23.120 crime scene and reviewed the forensic reports. After piecing together 225 00:12:23.159 --> 00:12:26.559 the available information, doctor Milton crafted a profile of the 226 00:12:26.600 --> 00:12:30.759 individual he believed was responsible for the murders at hand. 227 00:12:31.559 --> 00:12:35.320 According to doctor Milton's analysis, the killer was likely in 228 00:12:35.360 --> 00:12:39.360 his mid thirties with a history of violent or aggressive behavior. 229 00:12:40.120 --> 00:12:43.559 This person was familiar with the area, comfortable navigating the 230 00:12:43.600 --> 00:12:47.519 secluded landscape of the forest, and, most disturbingly, he believed 231 00:12:47.519 --> 00:12:51.440 the killer was driven by sadistic desires, finding pleasure in 232 00:12:51.519 --> 00:12:53.519 the suffering of others. 233 00:12:53.879 --> 00:12:56.679 Well, yeah, that makes sense. I still can't get over 234 00:12:56.720 --> 00:12:59.600 this target practice thing. Yeah, I'm like trying to pay 235 00:12:59.600 --> 00:13:02.200 at but that's the only thing going through my brain 236 00:13:02.200 --> 00:13:03.360 because it's so terrible. 237 00:13:03.360 --> 00:13:05.440 Well, and that highlights the fact that he's like, this 238 00:13:05.480 --> 00:13:07.720 is a sadistic person who, yeah, like you know, finds 239 00:13:07.799 --> 00:13:11.320 pleasure in this person suffering. Yeah, now, I guarantee you 240 00:13:12.600 --> 00:13:16.639 that Unfortunately, though she had gone through this you know, 241 00:13:16.720 --> 00:13:21.120 abuse and murder, thankfully she wouldn't have been alive for 242 00:13:21.200 --> 00:13:24.799 every single shot. Well yeah, yeah, so that is, I mean, 243 00:13:24.840 --> 00:13:27.600 the silver lining in it, but it still doesn't make 244 00:13:27.639 --> 00:13:29.720 the fact that he continued to use her, whether alive 245 00:13:29.840 --> 00:13:32.200 or dead, for target practice any better. 246 00:13:32.519 --> 00:13:35.960 No, No, honestly, that is one of the worst things 247 00:13:35.960 --> 00:13:38.159 I've ever heard in my whole life. I know, right, 248 00:13:38.480 --> 00:13:40.360 and I have heard a lot of true crying. 249 00:13:41.600 --> 00:13:43.919 We've gone through a lot of shit on this show, 250 00:13:43.960 --> 00:13:46.360 and yeah, that is that's one of those things. That's 251 00:13:46.519 --> 00:13:47.360 that's it's up there. 252 00:13:47.440 --> 00:13:50.080 Well, yeah, I feel like when something said that shocks me. 253 00:13:50.240 --> 00:13:52.440 It is. It's pretty bad, you know. 254 00:13:52.919 --> 00:13:56.759 Yeah, fair enough, It takes a lot at this point. Yeah, Now, 255 00:13:57.279 --> 00:14:01.159 they did have this psychological profile from doctor Milton. However, 256 00:14:01.960 --> 00:14:04.679 it wasn't enough to move the investigation forward at all. 257 00:14:04.799 --> 00:14:06.960 All they had was a little bit of an insight 258 00:14:07.159 --> 00:14:13.240 into this individual. But there's still no leads, there's no fingerprints, 259 00:14:13.240 --> 00:14:16.360 no DNA. They have some evidence, but nothing to connect 260 00:14:16.440 --> 00:14:22.240 to any person, at least not yet. Progress remained frustratingly slow, 261 00:14:22.279 --> 00:14:24.960 to say the least. Investigators continue to follow up on 262 00:14:25.039 --> 00:14:29.320 leads and scrutinize any reports of suspicious behavior or suspicious 263 00:14:29.360 --> 00:14:33.440 disappearances in the region, but their efforts produced very little. 264 00:14:33.799 --> 00:14:36.720 The case seemed to be going absolutely cold, and as 265 00:14:36.759 --> 00:14:40.120 time passed it faded from the forefront of the investigation 266 00:14:40.639 --> 00:14:44.799 as things moved on. But then thirteen months later, in 267 00:14:44.840 --> 00:14:47.879 October of nineteen ninety three, the case was reignited, this 268 00:14:48.159 --> 00:14:52.639 with the discovery of two more bodies in Belongo State Forest. 269 00:14:54.080 --> 00:14:57.159 The victims were identified as nineteen year old James Gibson 270 00:14:57.279 --> 00:15:01.240 and Deborah Everest, who had been missing nineteen eighty nine. 271 00:15:02.080 --> 00:15:05.919 James and Deborah were both Native Australians and were last 272 00:15:05.960 --> 00:15:10.519 seen heading south from Sydney to attend a conservation festival 273 00:15:10.679 --> 00:15:14.919 in December of that year. Their decomposed remains bore grim 274 00:15:14.960 --> 00:15:18.600 similarities to the earlier victims found. Both have been stabbed 275 00:15:18.679 --> 00:15:22.000 multiple times, with deep wounds that were deep enough to 276 00:15:22.200 --> 00:15:27.759 sever their spinal cords, rendering them paralyzed. Yeah, just with 277 00:15:27.879 --> 00:15:31.720 Walters and Clark. Investigators found a makeshift fire pit and 278 00:15:31.799 --> 00:15:35.240 spent casings near the body. The location of the crime 279 00:15:35.240 --> 00:15:38.240 scene was disturbingly close to where Walters and Clark had 280 00:15:38.240 --> 00:15:41.799 been found, less than one hundred feet away. 281 00:15:43.000 --> 00:15:46.600 This fucker, hey, the fact that they're just like enjoying 282 00:15:46.639 --> 00:15:48.840 this and like, I don't know because you just you 283 00:15:49.360 --> 00:15:52.240 think sitting by the fire, you know, you're like chilling, 284 00:15:52.440 --> 00:15:54.840 it's like a good night kind of thing. Yeah, and 285 00:15:54.879 --> 00:15:58.320 he's doing this while he's taking people's lots like lives. 286 00:15:58.639 --> 00:16:03.639 Yeah. Oh man, Now I do have to say, we 287 00:16:03.759 --> 00:16:07.000 don't know for sure that he's sitting by the fire 288 00:16:07.039 --> 00:16:08.519 pit and killing them. 289 00:16:08.799 --> 00:16:11.080 Yeah, but he's still a disgusting piece of shit that 290 00:16:11.080 --> 00:16:13.200 shouldn't be enjoying his life in a fire. 291 00:16:13.399 --> 00:16:17.320 I agree. What could be the case is they could 292 00:16:17.360 --> 00:16:19.799 already be deceased and he takes them out there and 293 00:16:19.840 --> 00:16:23.080 he's chilling by the fire, burying their bodies and using 294 00:16:23.120 --> 00:16:24.639 their remains as target practice. 295 00:16:24.679 --> 00:16:30.399 We don't know, celebrating that they're done with or something. Right, Well, 296 00:16:30.440 --> 00:16:32.519 maybe like that he's well he's done with them. 297 00:16:32.720 --> 00:16:35.159 Maybe maybe not even celebrating, but he's got a job 298 00:16:35.200 --> 00:16:38.120 to do now, right, He's got to bury bodies. So now, 299 00:16:38.120 --> 00:16:39.840 maybe the fire pit this is way of like taking 300 00:16:39.840 --> 00:16:43.360 breaks and relaxing, kicking back after some hard work. You know. 301 00:16:44.240 --> 00:16:46.639 Not that I'm saying that's what you should do or 302 00:16:46.759 --> 00:16:51.000 make sense to me, but for someone like that with 303 00:16:51.320 --> 00:16:55.240 very little empathy towards the actions and these victims and everything. 304 00:16:55.320 --> 00:16:56.120 That's what he does. 305 00:16:56.360 --> 00:16:59.080 Yeah, yeah, that could be the case. It could be 306 00:16:59.159 --> 00:17:00.679 very well the case that he's sitting by the fire 307 00:17:00.759 --> 00:17:03.480 torturing these people and using them as target practice while 308 00:17:03.480 --> 00:17:06.279 they're still alive too. Unfortunately we don't know. 309 00:17:06.519 --> 00:17:09.279 I'm saying he but that was never even determined I 310 00:17:09.279 --> 00:17:10.240 guess either, was it? 311 00:17:10.400 --> 00:17:14.720 Well, it was determined in the profile by doctor Milton. 312 00:17:15.359 --> 00:17:18.200 They're assuming, right, they're assuming, but. 313 00:17:18.720 --> 00:17:20.519 Probably because of strength and stuff too. 314 00:17:20.559 --> 00:17:23.279 I'm right, most likely, and I mean, let's be honest, 315 00:17:23.400 --> 00:17:27.400 the ratio of male to female perpetrators, it's a little 316 00:17:27.400 --> 00:17:31.240 bit lopsided. The odds of it being male, it's most likely. 317 00:17:31.799 --> 00:17:33.079 Yeah. 318 00:17:33.160 --> 00:17:35.960 So, with this new discovery about these new victims, found 319 00:17:36.160 --> 00:17:39.400 any lingering doubt about the nature of the murders vanished. 320 00:17:39.559 --> 00:17:42.519 The methodical violence of the and the proximity of the bodies, 321 00:17:43.039 --> 00:17:48.240 and the consistence, the consistency in the murders. This was 322 00:17:48.279 --> 00:17:50.799 clear that this was the killer's hunting ground basically at 323 00:17:50.799 --> 00:17:55.079 this point, and of course that a serial killer was 324 00:17:55.119 --> 00:17:59.359 at large praying on victims. The police now we're certain 325 00:17:59.359 --> 00:18:01.519 that they were deemed of dealing with a repeat offender, 326 00:18:02.000 --> 00:18:04.759 and they intensified their efforts to catch this person. 327 00:18:05.559 --> 00:18:08.079 Okay, I have one other question too, because isn't there 328 00:18:08.160 --> 00:18:10.359 quite a gap between when these people are missing and 329 00:18:10.400 --> 00:18:12.599 then when they're actually like discovered. 330 00:18:13.079 --> 00:18:15.240 Well like these last two ones they were they were 331 00:18:15.279 --> 00:18:17.559 killed in I believe eighty nine, and then they're found 332 00:18:17.640 --> 00:18:18.680 in ninety three. 333 00:18:18.960 --> 00:18:21.799 Ok yeah, for a few years. Yeah, that's very interesting. 334 00:18:22.039 --> 00:18:26.960 And they had actually gone missing before the original ones. Really, yes, okay, 335 00:18:27.039 --> 00:18:29.440 so it is I believe they would have been in 336 00:18:29.480 --> 00:18:32.359 that forest at the time of the surf if I'm 337 00:18:32.400 --> 00:18:37.759 not mistaken, huh. Okay, yes. So anyways, Desperate to make 338 00:18:37.799 --> 00:18:40.559 some headway in the case, the new South Wales Police 339 00:18:40.599 --> 00:18:48.119 Department brought in Superintendent Civil Small, a seasoned police commissioner 340 00:18:49.160 --> 00:18:53.079 known for his experience handling complex investigation. They're basically bringing 341 00:18:53.079 --> 00:18:55.400 in the big guns. You're like, we need someone, well, yeah, 342 00:18:55.480 --> 00:18:57.400 bringing Small, We need them. 343 00:18:57.440 --> 00:19:00.000 You know, I have four victims at this point, so exactly. 344 00:19:00.759 --> 00:19:03.480 Now, the brutality of this case was unlike anything Small 345 00:19:03.519 --> 00:19:06.839 had ever encountered before. With the way of the investigation 346 00:19:06.920 --> 00:19:10.519 now on his shoulders, Small wasted no time in getting 347 00:19:10.559 --> 00:19:13.920 to work. One of Small's first moves was to establish 348 00:19:13.960 --> 00:19:17.440 a large task force dedicated to scouring the vast expanse 349 00:19:17.519 --> 00:19:21.039 of the state forest. He was determined to find more 350 00:19:21.119 --> 00:19:25.880 victims if they were out there. His instincts proved correct. 351 00:19:26.200 --> 00:19:30.559 Almost exactly one month after the last two bodies were discovered, 352 00:19:31.200 --> 00:19:35.880 police found yet another victim on November first, Simone Schmidel, 353 00:19:36.319 --> 00:19:39.960 a young German backpacker. Simone had been hitchhiking along the 354 00:19:40.319 --> 00:19:43.200 Hume Highway south of Sydney in search of work. Her 355 00:19:43.240 --> 00:19:47.039 remains told the chillingly familiar story. She'd been stabbed in 356 00:19:47.079 --> 00:19:50.799 the back, the wound severing her spine, immobilizing her as 357 00:19:50.799 --> 00:19:53.200 she was subject to further torment. 358 00:19:53.480 --> 00:19:58.000 Oh my gosh, that is that, like you said, Like 359 00:19:58.039 --> 00:20:02.440 that is just like complete psych catic really, as as with. 360 00:20:02.400 --> 00:20:05.319 The other victims. Near Simone's body were the telltale signs 361 00:20:05.319 --> 00:20:08.039 of the killer's method, a crude fire pit, twenty two 362 00:20:08.079 --> 00:20:11.680 caliber shell casings, and a shallow grave partially concealed by debris. 363 00:20:12.680 --> 00:20:16.400 Small now felt certain that the grim pattern would continue, 364 00:20:16.880 --> 00:20:19.559 and he was right. Just three days later, the task 365 00:20:19.599 --> 00:20:25.359 force uncovered two more bodies, that of Anya Habsheed, twenty 366 00:20:25.440 --> 00:20:29.400 years old, and her boyfriend Gabdor Nugibber, who's twenty one. 367 00:20:29.519 --> 00:20:32.599 Both German tourists had been missing since December of nineteen 368 00:20:32.720 --> 00:20:36.720 ninety one. This new crime scene bore many of the 369 00:20:36.759 --> 00:20:40.240 trademarks of the earlier murders, but with some gruesome twists. 370 00:20:41.480 --> 00:20:45.119 Gabor had been strangled and then shot multiple times, his 371 00:20:45.160 --> 00:20:48.960 body left with his genes unzipped, mirroring the other victims. 372 00:20:49.359 --> 00:20:52.680 Anya had been brutally stabbed, but the discovery of her 373 00:20:52.680 --> 00:20:58.119 body revealed a shocking macob difference. She had been decapitated. 374 00:20:58.519 --> 00:21:03.119 Hustigators believe that a machete was the tool used to 375 00:21:03.279 --> 00:21:07.200 sever her head from her body, but despite extensive searches, 376 00:21:07.960 --> 00:21:10.119 her head was never recovered. 377 00:21:10.720 --> 00:21:16.839 No. Yeah, oh man, okay, huh, I can't believe. Like, 378 00:21:16.880 --> 00:21:20.400 so he's like paralyzing these people on purpose and so 379 00:21:20.440 --> 00:21:23.400 that they really really can't defend themselves. Yes, and then 380 00:21:23.480 --> 00:21:24.799 just going through with his acts. 381 00:21:25.160 --> 00:21:25.400 Yes. 382 00:21:26.000 --> 00:21:28.920 Oh, this case, this case is shocking the shit out 383 00:21:28.920 --> 00:21:29.119 of me. 384 00:21:29.400 --> 00:21:33.240 Yeah. No, he's he's attacking the spinal cord on purpose. 385 00:21:33.759 --> 00:21:37.920 He is paralyzing them on purpose so they cannot get 386 00:21:37.960 --> 00:21:39.640 away or defend themselves. 387 00:21:40.319 --> 00:21:41.200 Wow. Okay. 388 00:21:42.440 --> 00:21:44.599 By this point, it was clear to Smalls that as 389 00:21:44.720 --> 00:21:48.759 long as the murderer was at large, no one was safe. 390 00:21:49.240 --> 00:21:52.559 With bodies mounting and the media attention growing, Small publicly 391 00:21:52.599 --> 00:21:56.440 admitted that a serial killer was indeed not at large, 392 00:21:56.720 --> 00:22:01.559 but active in the state forest. He took the unprecedented 393 00:22:01.559 --> 00:22:04.720 step of releasing photos of the victims in hope that 394 00:22:04.799 --> 00:22:09.519 someone somewhere might have information that could help crack this case. 395 00:22:11.240 --> 00:22:14.200 As disturbing them as the murders were, the killer's choice 396 00:22:14.200 --> 00:22:18.720 of victims seemed very deliberate. Each one was a young, 397 00:22:18.839 --> 00:22:23.480 adventurous person backpackers, hitchhikers, exploring new places and seeking a 398 00:22:23.519 --> 00:22:26.160 care free life. But tragically, their pursuit of freedom and 399 00:22:26.200 --> 00:22:29.920 excitement had been what brought them to the horrific violent 400 00:22:30.119 --> 00:22:34.720 and the killer's methods were also varied and sadistic, making 401 00:22:34.799 --> 00:22:38.519