Speaker 1: It takes a shocking event to inspire a film, but
Speaker 1: that's exactly what happened in the case of the Backpacker murders.
Speaker 1: This high profile case struck fear into the hearts of
Speaker 1: all of Australia when several hitchhikers mysteriously disappeared, and mind you,
Speaker 1: hitchhiking was still widely considered safe at this time. The
Speaker 1: terror surrounding the case eventually inspired the film Wolf Creek,
Speaker 1: but the real life horror came from the name behind
Speaker 1: it all. This is the story of Ivan Milat and
Speaker 1: the Backpacker Murders.
Speaker 2: My name's Ben, I'm Nicole, and you're listening to Wicked
Speaker 2: and Grim, a true crime podcast.
Speaker 1: The following podcast and material for a mature audience.
Speaker 3: Listen.
Speaker 1: I have had this case on my list for a
Speaker 1: long time, have you I have. I've done research over
Speaker 1: and over and over again for it, and then i
Speaker 1: found myself being like, I'm too far down a rabbit hole,
Speaker 1: and I've got like a day to get a podcast together,
Speaker 1: So then I swap out and do a different case
Speaker 1: and put this one on the back burner, sort of say,
Speaker 1: and here we are finally awesome. I'd probably put this
Speaker 1: one on the back burner. I bet you about a
Speaker 1: dozen times.
Speaker 2: Really, Okay, yes, so this is gonna be good.
Speaker 1: Then this is quite the ride. Hm, it's quite the ride.
Speaker 1: Like I said, it actually inspired the movie, the horror
Speaker 1: movie Wolf Creek.
Speaker 2: Okay, I don't think I've seen that movie. I don't
Speaker 2: think so.
Speaker 1: Well, it is honor.
Speaker 2: We will have to watch it tonight.
Speaker 1: It is on our list today for Patreon, so you
Speaker 1: are going to be watching it if you don't know.
Speaker 1: We are doing a countdown of thirty one Halloween movies,
Speaker 1: so a movie per day all through October. We've been
Speaker 1: posting each day a new movie to check out over
Speaker 1: on Patreon, and the movie Wolf Creek is today's.
Speaker 2: Movie on Patreon. Yeah, yeah, right on which.
Speaker 1: Speaking of Patreon, we should actually thank our patrons who
Speaker 1: signed up this week.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we have a couple we did.
Speaker 1: We have Macy Smith and McKenna Anderson. Thank you so
Speaker 1: much for doing us from Patreon.
Speaker 2: That's awesome.
Speaker 1: We have something else to talk about. What do we do? Yesterday?
Speaker 2: Oh? I was like, we do? What the heck elks
Speaker 2: do you have to talk about? We did our annual
Speaker 2: Halloween photo shoot. We did Yeah, and it went quite well.
Speaker 1: It did. We actually involved the dogs and they relatively
Speaker 1: behave themselves.
Speaker 2: Well, Honey did far better than Ripley.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Ripley was. Ripley doesn't like to listen. She doesn't
Speaker 1: like to do what she's told. She doesn't like to
Speaker 1: if you have a treat in your hand or something,
Speaker 1: she is the goodest girl. But if you just tell
Speaker 1: her to do something, she's like.
Speaker 2: No, she's just busy, and she just likes to explore everything.
Speaker 2: And if you get in the way of that, like,
Speaker 2: fuck off.
Speaker 1: Basically pretty much that is the definition of huskies right there.
Speaker 1: If you're in the way of them, fuck off. But yeah,
Speaker 1: I went good. So we are gonna be posting the
Speaker 1: photos pretty soon over on Instagram, Facebook and our socials,
Speaker 1: so you can go check those out because we do
Speaker 1: an annual one every year. Last year, Nicole, you killed me.
Speaker 2: As a son, I did. Yeah, that one is for
Speaker 2: the books. This one's a bit more chill. It's a
Speaker 2: bit more chill, I would say. This year. Oh, it's
Speaker 2: definitely really awesome.
Speaker 1: Well, in the year before that, we did like face
Speaker 1: painted skeletons and stuff and got like all.
Speaker 3: No, I don't I think, Oh, was that or when
Speaker 3: did we do the pumpkin I think that was the
Speaker 3: year before Okay, now I'm not sure anyway, and ghosts.
Speaker 1: And ghosts, Yeah, but we we do Halloween shoot every year,
Speaker 1: so this year, yeah, we went all that last year,
Speaker 1: so we went a little bit more relaxed this year.
Speaker 1: Just fun and comfy.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was fun.
Speaker 1: It was so that. Yeah, like I said, I digress.
Speaker 1: Those ann be coming out soon, but I think we
Speaker 1: should get to this case. What do you think? Yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: talk for a minute, tho, because I got to get
Speaker 1: a sip of.
Speaker 2: Cock for I was going to ask you. Do you
Speaker 2: think that we're ever going to run out of ideas
Speaker 2: for these photo shoots? Oh?
Speaker 1: Yes? Probably?
Speaker 2: Oh really Okay, I thought for sure you'd be like, no, no,
Speaker 2: I got like ten my back pocket here.
Speaker 1: But I'm already at loss for what to do next year.
Speaker 1: But we'll figure it out.
Speaker 2: You haven't even thought about it, probably, touche? I have? There?
Speaker 2: You go?
Speaker 1: Or have I? Yes?
Speaker 2: I have? Maybe I should I should think of something.
Speaker 1: Maybe you should.
Speaker 2: Well yeah, but good God knows what you'd be doing.
Speaker 1: Maybe I should maybe maybe I should?
Speaker 2: Yeah, never mind, we would do like ghosts again, but
Speaker 2: with like really florally sheets.
Speaker 1: I'd be fine with that.
Speaker 2: I think that would be so fun.
Speaker 1: Okay, let's get on with this. So this is the
Speaker 1: Wolf Creek Killer because of the movie Wolf Creek aka
Speaker 1: The Backpack Murders aka the story of Ivan Millett. So
Speaker 1: on September nineteenth, nineteen ninety two, it was warm and
Speaker 1: sunny day. Two runners were orienteering in the Bolongo State
Speaker 1: Forest area in Australia. Now, the peaceful atmosphere of the
Speaker 1: forest quickly turned to a very grim situation. As they
Speaker 1: approached the location ominously known as Executioners Drop. In the
Speaker 1: stillness of the day, they were suddenly overwhelmed by the
Speaker 1: foul and very familiar stench of decay. They assumed at
Speaker 1: first that it came from a dead animal somewhere nearby
Speaker 1: in the bushes. However, what they stumbled upon was far
Speaker 1: more terrifying than they could ever have imagined. As they
Speaker 1: slowed down, the runners spotted a shallow grave and inside
Speaker 1: there were two bodies, two women, both lying face down
Speaker 1: with their hands bound behind their backed. By the discovery,
Speaker 1: they immediately left the area and notified authorities.
Speaker 2: Holy shit, Hey, what a way to start your day.
Speaker 1: Yeah, no kidding. When police arrived at the scene, they
Speaker 1: found the women's bodies partially covered by leaves and brush.
Speaker 1: The state of their decomposition was so advanced that identifying
Speaker 1: them by sight alone was absolutely impossible. Nearby officers discovered
Speaker 1: a makeshift fire pit, along with numerous cigarette butts and
Speaker 1: several spent twenty two caliber shell casings scattered around the site. Well,
Speaker 1: it might seem like little evidence to put to us, like,
Speaker 1: you know, that's not a whole lot. Sure, of course,
Speaker 1: you know, you got some bullets, shells, some cigarette butts,
Speaker 1: maybe DNA or something. But the scene alone, it doesn't
Speaker 1: really tell a whole lot of a story. But to
Speaker 1: investigators it painted a very clear picture. The items left
Speaker 1: behind suggested that whoever had committed the crime had spent
Speaker 1: a significant time in the forest, unhurried, undeterred by the
Speaker 1: risks of being caught. They sat there, they made a fire,
Speaker 1: they relaxed by the fire, smoked cigarettes, perhaps even killed
Speaker 1: their victims then and there and buried them, maybe even
Speaker 1: relaxing afterwards as well. Jeez, that's the picture of painted
Speaker 1: to authorities. Yeah, it wasn't long before the two victims
Speaker 1: were identified through forensic work. It was Caroline Clark, who
Speaker 1: was twenty one years old, and Juanne Walters, who is
Speaker 1: twenty two, Both British nationals. Carolyn and Joanne, they traveled
Speaker 1: to Sydney together earlier that year, hoping to find work
Speaker 1: as nanny's. They had been missing since May of nineteen
Speaker 1: ninety two, and their tragic discovery marked a set of
Speaker 1: Australia's most infamous murder investigation. When the coroner examined the
Speaker 1: bodies of Carolyn Clark and Joanne Walters, the full extent
Speaker 1: of the brutality that they endured became horrifyingly clear. The
Speaker 1: details uncovered during the autopsies painted a picture of torture
Speaker 1: and horrific deaths. Joanne had been bound and gagged, then
Speaker 1: viciously stabbed multiple times over. One of the stab wounds
Speaker 1: had been so severe and so deep that it severed
Speaker 1: her spinal core, wowing her paralyzed as the attack continued.
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, this injury would have rendered her absolutely
Speaker 1: defenseless against the ongoing assault. Investigators also noted that her
Speaker 1: pants were found with the zipper down, but the button
Speaker 1: fastened up, leading them to believe that her clothes had
Speaker 1: been removed and then hastily redressed.
Speaker 2: Okay, yep, I was like, what does that mean? But yeah,
Speaker 2: that makes sense.
Speaker 1: Carolyn Clark faced an equally nightmarish fate. In addition to
Speaker 1: being stabbed as well, Carolyn had been shot in the
Speaker 1: head at least ten times with a twenty two caliber rifle.
Speaker 1: Four bullets remained lodged inside of her skull, which investigators
Speaker 1: collected as evidence. The pattern of unshot suggested that she
Speaker 1: had been used for target practice, though determining which shot
Speaker 1: had ultimately been fatal was impossible, So essentially, it is
Speaker 1: more than likely that this individual sat back at the
Speaker 1: fire using her as target practice as he was relaxing.
Speaker 2: Holy shit, that is like next level brutal. Yeah, oh
Speaker 2: my goodness, gracious. Okay.
Speaker 1: Now, I have mentioned this on the podcast before, but
Speaker 1: twenty two caliber bullets are notorious for being used in
Speaker 1: mob executions back in the day. Now this was due
Speaker 1: to their small size and the fact that they often
Speaker 1: remained lodged inside the skull rather than exiting the body,
Speaker 1: so when being shot in the head, the bullet had
Speaker 1: enough power to break through the skull, but not exit
Speaker 1: through the skull. Again, so it would enter the skull,
Speaker 1: bounce around inside, ensuring it like scrambled the brains, ensuring
Speaker 1: it killed the person right. And also since it didn't exit,
Speaker 1: it made for easier clean So I mean, I digress
Speaker 1: a little bit, but it's not surprising to think that
Speaker 1: a twenty two colored bullet, twenty two caliber bullet, there
Speaker 1: we go, would be lodged inside the skull, as they
Speaker 1: are notorious for this.
Speaker 2: Okay.
Speaker 1: So, following the grim discovery of the bodies, investigators expanded
Speaker 1: their search in the surrounding area, hoping to uncover further
Speaker 1: evidence or even worse, additional victims. However, after an extensive
Speaker 1: sweep of the forest, no other remains of significant leads
Speaker 1: were found. The lack of additional physical evidence left police
Speaker 1: with no more questions or sorry, no more answers, just
Speaker 1: more questions. As news of the double homicide began to spread,
Speaker 1: local communities began to fear the possibility of a serial
Speaker 1: killer lurking in Polongo State forest. Some pointed to the
Speaker 1: increasing number of missing hitchhikers in the region over the
Speaker 1: past few years as evidence of a pattern. But despite
Speaker 1: these concerns, authorities initially dismissed the idea that a serial
Speaker 1: killer was responsible for these At the time, there was
Speaker 1: no solid evidence suggests that such a crime had occurred before,
Speaker 1: leaving police hesitant to jump to conclusions and just understanding
Speaker 1: they had a single case of murder on their hands,
Speaker 1: not a serial killer. Now, despite the evidence collected from
Speaker 1: the bodies of Joanne and Carolyn and from the surrounding
Speaker 1: area in the forest, police found themselves at a stand
Speaker 1: still with the investigation. Clues from the crime scene offered
Speaker 1: very little in the way of concrete leads as to
Speaker 1: who might actually be responsible for responsible for this. In
Speaker 1: their efforts to gain more insight into the killer's behavior,
Speaker 1: investigators consulted doctor Rod Milton, who was a seasoned forensic
Speaker 1: psychiatrists who had worked with the New South Wales Police
Speaker 1: Force for over two decades at this point. Given his
Speaker 1: extensive experience in crime scene analysis, authorities believe that doctor
Speaker 1: Milton might be able to help develop a psychological profile
Speaker 1: of this perpetrator that they're trying to deal with and find.
Speaker 1: So when doctor Milton was brought into the investigation, he
Speaker 1: visited the scene with the investigators. He meticulously walked through
Speaker 1: and combed the area where the bodies had been discovered,
Speaker 1: taking note of the terrain, the whole forest, its isolation,
Speaker 1: and any possible reason that the killer might have chosen
Speaker 1: that particular spot. He also studied detailed photographs of the
Speaker 1: crime scene and reviewed the forensic reports. After piecing together
Speaker 1: the available information, doctor Milton crafted a profile of the
Speaker 1: individual he believed was responsible for the murders at hand.
Speaker 1: According to doctor Milton's analysis, the killer was likely in
Speaker 1: his mid thirties with a history of violent or aggressive behavior.
Speaker 1: This person was familiar with the area, comfortable navigating the
Speaker 1: secluded landscape of the forest, and, most disturbingly, he believed
Speaker 1: the killer was driven by sadistic desires, finding pleasure in
Speaker 1: the suffering of others.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, that makes sense. I still can't get over
Speaker 2: this target practice thing. Yeah, I'm like trying to pay
Speaker 2: at but that's the only thing going through my brain
Speaker 2: because it's so terrible.
Speaker 1: Well, and that highlights the fact that he's like, this
Speaker 1: is a sadistic person who, yeah, like you know, finds
Speaker 1: pleasure in this person suffering. Yeah, now, I guarantee you
Speaker 1: that Unfortunately, though she had gone through this you know,
Speaker 1: abuse and murder, thankfully she wouldn't have been alive for
Speaker 1: every single shot. Well yeah, yeah, so that is, I mean,
Speaker 1: the silver lining in it, but it still doesn't make
Speaker 1: the fact that he continued to use her, whether alive
Speaker 1: or dead, for target practice any better.
Speaker 2: No, No, honestly, that is one of the worst things
Speaker 2: I've ever heard in my whole life. I know, right,
Speaker 2: and I have heard a lot of true crying.
Speaker 1: We've gone through a lot of shit on this show,
Speaker 1: and yeah, that is that's one of those things. That's
Speaker 1: that's it's up there.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I feel like when something said that shocks me.
Speaker 2: It is. It's pretty bad, you know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, fair enough, It takes a lot at this point. Yeah, Now,
Speaker 1: they did have this psychological profile from doctor Milton. However,
Speaker 1: it wasn't enough to move the investigation forward at all.
Speaker 1: All they had was a little bit of an insight
Speaker 1: into this individual. But there's still no leads, there's no fingerprints,
Speaker 1: no DNA. They have some evidence, but nothing to connect
Speaker 1: to any person, at least not yet. Progress remained frustratingly slow,
Speaker 1: to say the least. Investigators continue to follow up on
Speaker 1: leads and scrutinize any reports of suspicious behavior or suspicious
Speaker 1: disappearances in the region, but their efforts produced very little.
Speaker 1: The case seemed to be going absolutely cold, and as
Speaker 1: time passed it faded from the forefront of the investigation
Speaker 1: as things moved on. But then thirteen months later, in
Speaker 1: October of nineteen ninety three, the case was reignited, this
Speaker 1: with the discovery of two more bodies in Belongo State Forest.
Speaker 1: The victims were identified as nineteen year old James Gibson
Speaker 1: and Deborah Everest, who had been missing nineteen eighty nine.
Speaker 1: James and Deborah were both Native Australians and were last
Speaker 1: seen heading south from Sydney to attend a conservation festival
Speaker 1: in December of that year. Their decomposed remains bore grim
Speaker 1: similarities to the earlier victims found. Both have been stabbed
Speaker 1: multiple times, with deep wounds that were deep enough to
Speaker 1: sever their spinal cords, rendering them paralyzed. Yeah, just with
Speaker 1: Walters and Clark. Investigators found a makeshift fire pit and
Speaker 1: spent casings near the body. The location of the crime
Speaker 1: scene was disturbingly close to where Walters and Clark had
Speaker 1: been found, less than one hundred feet away.
Speaker 2: This fucker, hey, the fact that they're just like enjoying
Speaker 2: this and like, I don't know because you just you
Speaker 2: think sitting by the fire, you know, you're like chilling,
Speaker 2: it's like a good night kind of thing. Yeah, and
Speaker 2: he's doing this while he's taking people's lots like lives.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Oh man, Now I do have to say, we
Speaker 1: don't know for sure that he's sitting by the fire
Speaker 1: pit and killing them.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but he's still a disgusting piece of shit that
Speaker 2: shouldn't be enjoying his life in a fire.
Speaker 1: I agree. What could be the case is they could
Speaker 1: already be deceased and he takes them out there and
Speaker 1: he's chilling by the fire, burying their bodies and using
Speaker 1: their remains as target practice.
Speaker 2: We don't know, celebrating that they're done with or something. Right, Well,
Speaker 2: maybe like that he's well he's done with them.
Speaker 1: Maybe maybe not even celebrating, but he's got a job
Speaker 1: to do now, right, He's got to bury bodies. So now,
Speaker 1: maybe the fire pit this is way of like taking
Speaker 1: breaks and relaxing, kicking back after some hard work. You know.
Speaker 1: Not that I'm saying that's what you should do or
Speaker 1: make sense to me, but for someone like that with
Speaker 1: very little empathy towards the actions and these victims and everything.
Speaker 2: That's what he does.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that could be the case. It could be
Speaker 1: very well the case that he's sitting by the fire
Speaker 1: torturing these people and using them as target practice while
Speaker 1: they're still alive too. Unfortunately we don't know.
Speaker 2: I'm saying he but that was never even determined I
Speaker 2: guess either, was it?
Speaker 1: Well, it was determined in the profile by doctor Milton.
Speaker 1: They're assuming, right, they're assuming, but.
Speaker 2: Probably because of strength and stuff too.
Speaker 1: I'm right, most likely, and I mean, let's be honest,
Speaker 1: the ratio of male to female perpetrators, it's a little
Speaker 1: bit lopsided. The odds of it being male, it's most likely.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So, with this new discovery about these new victims, found
Speaker 1: any lingering doubt about the nature of the murders vanished.
Speaker 1: The methodical violence of the and the proximity of the bodies,
Speaker 1: and the consistence, the consistency in the murders. This was
Speaker 1: clear that this was the killer's hunting ground basically at
Speaker 1: this point, and of course that a serial killer was
Speaker 1: at large praying on victims. The police now we're certain
Speaker 1: that they were deemed of dealing with a repeat offender,
Speaker 1: and they intensified their efforts to catch this person.
Speaker 2: Okay, I have one other question too, because isn't there
Speaker 2: quite a gap between when these people are missing and
Speaker 2: then when they're actually like discovered.
Speaker 1: Well like these last two ones they were they were
Speaker 1: killed in I believe eighty nine, and then they're found
Speaker 1: in ninety three.
Speaker 2: Ok yeah, for a few years. Yeah, that's very interesting.
Speaker 1: And they had actually gone missing before the original ones. Really, yes, okay,
Speaker 1: so it is I believe they would have been in
Speaker 1: that forest at the time of the surf if I'm
Speaker 1: not mistaken, huh. Okay, yes. So anyways, Desperate to make
Speaker 1: some headway in the case, the new South Wales Police
Speaker 1: Department brought in Superintendent Civil Small, a seasoned police commissioner
Speaker 1: known for his experience handling complex investigation. They're basically bringing
Speaker 1: in the big guns. You're like, we need someone, well, yeah,
Speaker 1: bringing Small, We need them.
Speaker 2: You know, I have four victims at this point, so exactly.
Speaker 1: Now, the brutality of this case was unlike anything Small
Speaker 1: had ever encountered before. With the way of the investigation
Speaker 1: now on his shoulders, Small wasted no time in getting
Speaker 1: to work. One of Small's first moves was to establish
Speaker 1: a large task force dedicated to scouring the vast expanse
Speaker 1: of the state forest. He was determined to find more
Speaker 1: victims if they were out there. His instincts proved correct.
Speaker 1: Almost exactly one month after the last two bodies were discovered,
Speaker 1: police found yet another victim on November first, Simone Schmidel,
Speaker 1: a young German backpacker. Simone had been hitchhiking along the
Speaker 1: Hume Highway south of Sydney in search of work. Her
Speaker 1: remains told the chillingly familiar story. She'd been stabbed in
Speaker 1: the back, the wound severing her spine, immobilizing her as
Speaker 1: she was subject to further torment.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, that is that, like you said, Like
Speaker 2: that is just like complete psych catic really, as as with.
Speaker 1: The other victims. Near Simone's body were the telltale signs
Speaker 1: of the killer's method, a crude fire pit, twenty two
Speaker 1: caliber shell casings, and a shallow grave partially concealed by debris.
Speaker 1: Small now felt certain that the grim pattern would continue,
Speaker 1: and he was right. Just three days later, the task
Speaker 1: force uncovered two more bodies, that of Anya Habsheed, twenty
Speaker 1: years old, and her boyfriend Gabdor Nugibber, who's twenty one.
Speaker 1: Both German tourists had been missing since December of nineteen
Speaker 1: ninety one. This new crime scene bore many of the
Speaker 1: trademarks of the earlier murders, but with some gruesome twists.
Speaker 1: Gabor had been strangled and then shot multiple times, his
Speaker 1: body left with his genes unzipped, mirroring the other victims.
Speaker 1: Anya had been brutally stabbed, but the discovery of her
Speaker 1: body revealed a shocking macob difference. She had been decapitated.
Speaker 1: Hustigators believe that a machete was the tool used to
Speaker 1: sever her head from her body, but despite extensive searches,
Speaker 1: her head was never recovered.
Speaker 2: No. Yeah, oh man, okay, huh, I can't believe. Like,
Speaker 2: so he's like paralyzing these people on purpose and so
Speaker 2: that they really really can't defend themselves. Yes, and then
Speaker 2: just going through with his acts.
Speaker 1: Yes.
Speaker 2: Oh, this case, this case is shocking the shit out
Speaker 2: of me.
Speaker 1: Yeah. No, he's he's attacking the spinal cord on purpose.
Speaker 1: He is paralyzing them on purpose so they cannot get
Speaker 1: away or defend themselves.
Speaker 2: Wow. Okay.
Speaker 1: By this point, it was clear to Smalls that as
Speaker 1: long as the murderer was at large, no one was safe.
Speaker 1: With bodies mounting and the media attention growing, Small publicly
Speaker 1: admitted that a serial killer was indeed not at large,
Speaker 1: but active in the state forest. He took the unprecedented
Speaker 1: step of releasing photos of the victims in hope that
Speaker 1: someone somewhere might have information that could help crack this case.
Speaker 1: As disturbing them as the murders were, the killer's choice
Speaker 1: of victims seemed very deliberate. Each one was a young,
Speaker 1: adventurous person backpackers, hitchhikers, exploring new places and seeking a
Speaker 1: care free life. But tragically, their pursuit of freedom and
Speaker 1: excitement had been what brought them to the horrific violent
Speaker 1: and the killer's methods were also varied and sadistic, making
Speaker 1: it difficult for investigators to pinpoint who they were looking for. Yes,
Speaker 1: there were some similarities, but the murderer had been had
Speaker 1: been using a wide array of techniques to actually kill
Speaker 1: out the killings their stabbings, their strangulations, their shooting, bludgeoning, decapitation.
Speaker 1: There's a lot of varying things still going on. As
Speaker 1: pressure mounted, Small and his task force were running out
Speaker 1: of leads. Despite having a way all the physical evidence,
Speaker 1: including the forensic data from the crime scenes, the investigation
Speaker 1: was at a frustrating standstill. They still could not connect
Speaker 1: the murders to a person. That is until nineteen ninety four,
Speaker 1: when an unexpected break came from a man living on
Speaker 1: the other side of the world.
Speaker 2: Oh wow, okay, here I thought maybe they would go
Speaker 2: about like trying to set him up or something, you know,
Speaker 2: set who up the killer, like pretend like they were hitchhiking.
Speaker 1: Oh batim.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Oh, I mean, I don't know if they did that,
Speaker 1: but I mean, that would have been a potentially of
Speaker 1: doing it. It worked, but when you do that, you also
Speaker 1: risk Yes, someone's life too, right.
Speaker 2: Now, Yeah, it's terrifying. I would I don't think I
Speaker 2: would ever volunteer for something like that.
Speaker 1: No, No, I'm definitely not going to volunteers tribute. No,
Speaker 1: thank you, do not call me Catnus Everdean, I'm good. Anyways,
Speaker 1: this breakthrough came from a man named Paul Onions. Now,
Speaker 1: Paul had been watching the news. He's watching the news.
Speaker 1: There's this coverage of this investigation that he saw, and
Speaker 1: he saw what Smalls was talking about. This murder, This
Speaker 1: spree happening in Australia. Now he's a british Man and
Speaker 1: he recognized some key details from this story. He picked
Speaker 1: up the phone and he called the New South Wales Police.
Speaker 1: His account would soon prove to be the breakthrough Smalls
Speaker 1: had been desperately seeking. So Paul encountered a man on
Speaker 1: Thursday January twenty fifth, nineteen ninety as he walked along
Speaker 1: the Hume Highway south of Sydney, Okay. So he had
Speaker 1: been on vacation in Australia in the area, and like
Speaker 1: many travelers, Paul had come to Australia, you know, seeking
Speaker 1: that adventure. And in the week since his arrival, he
Speaker 1: had been hitchhiking across the country. Now, I did already
Speaker 1: mention this and the intro, but hitchhiking was a common
Speaker 1: mode of transportation at the time. Paul never thought anything
Speaker 1: about the risks that might be involved. He trusted the
Speaker 1: kindness of strangers. Considered safe people did it all the time, right, However,
Speaker 1: he was unaware that this trust could would nearly cost
Speaker 1: him his life. Now, Paul, as he was going along,
Speaker 1: he was thirsty and he was tired from hours of walking.
Speaker 1: He approached a small corner store, and he decided it
Speaker 1: was good good time to take a break. As he
Speaker 1: adjusted the backpack on his shoulder, a silver truck pulled
Speaker 1: up alongside him. The driver hopped out. He was a
Speaker 1: muscular looking man with a very distinctive handlebar mustache, and
Speaker 1: he asked Paul, hey, you need a lyft. Grateful for
Speaker 1: the offer, Paul accepted without any hesitation. Yeah, sure, right,
Speaker 1: it's safe. I've been hitch hiking constantly while down here
Speaker 1: to see other people hitch hiking. People picked me up.
Speaker 1: It's normal.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and this guy's just being nice.
Speaker 1: Exactly, so he's like, yeah, sounds great. So the man
Speaker 1: introduced himself as Bill, and after a brief exchange of pleasantries,
Speaker 1: you know, hey, how's it going, my name? Is this
Speaker 1: where you're headed? You know that sort of stuff, they
Speaker 1: both climbed into his truck and they took off. At first,
Speaker 1: the ride seemed normal enough, but as the miles passed by,
Speaker 1: Paul began to sense something a little bit off and
Speaker 1: unsettling about Bill. He became increasingly agitated, ranting about various topics,
Speaker 1: including racist views and xenophobic things. You know, people who
Speaker 1: are from outside the country and I mean, Paul's from
Speaker 1: outside of the country, and it began to make Paul
Speaker 1: a little bit uncomfortable. The conversation took an even darker
Speaker 1: turn when Bill began to ask Paul a series of odd,
Speaker 1: probing questions about him and his life, like was he
Speaker 1: expect was anyone expecting him when he arrived at his destination?
Speaker 1: Did he have any military or special forces training? And
Speaker 1: most ominously, did anyone know exactly where he was headed?
Speaker 2: Holy shit? Hey, could you imagine being asked those questions?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Ah, Now a lot of these things are not
Speaker 1: generally questions that are asked from hitchhikers, right, well.
Speaker 2: No, not to that extent really, like where you go in?
Speaker 2: But is someone expecting you there? Like that is just creepy.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's getting a little bit too personal here. So
Speaker 1: as these personal questions began piling up, because like one
Speaker 1: or two are fine, right, but like when you start
Speaker 1: asking more and more, I mean, there's an alarm that
Speaker 1: goes off in your head, and Paul definitely had that
Speaker 1: alarm go off. So what started as a friendly ride
Speaker 1: was rapidly becoming something much darker, and the tipping point
Speaker 1: came when Bill suddenly pulled the truck over to the
Speaker 1: side of the road, claiming he needed to receive a
Speaker 1: cassette from beneath his seat. Okay, now, Paul was suspicious
Speaker 1: as he glanced at the center console where you know,
Speaker 1: they're between both their armrests, and there was there was
Speaker 1: a lot of cassettes just sitting there. There was no
Speaker 1: reason for Bill to need another one or why he
Speaker 1: would store it there and all the other ones. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but Bill reaching under a seat was not reaching for
Speaker 1: a cassette, not for music. He was reaching for a
Speaker 1: length of rope. And Paul knew in that moment that
Speaker 1: he had to act fast because something wasn't right. His
Speaker 1: hands fumbled to him buckle his belt, but now Bill
Speaker 1: held a revolver that he pulled from out from underneath
Speaker 1: the seat as well, and he aimed it directly at Paul,
Speaker 1: announcing that he's being robbed. But Paul wasn't going to
Speaker 1: sit idly by and wait for what he knew could
Speaker 1: be much worse. He knew this situation was only going
Speaker 1: to escalate, and with adrenaline pumping, he pushed open the
Speaker 1: truck door and he bolted, leaving his backpack and all
Speaker 1: his belongings in that truck. Now Bill also chased after him.
Speaker 1: Paul ran for his life, and Bill began firing the gun,
Speaker 1: with bullets whizzing past him. As he just narrowly escaped
Speaker 1: being shot. He darted into the highway, frantically waving for help.
Speaker 1: Car slowed, but they didn't stop. They chose to ignore him,
Speaker 1: being a man panically waving like that probably looks crazy, right,
Speaker 1: so they passed him by. Now, just when it seemed
Speaker 1: hope was fading and that Bill was actually going to
Speaker 1: get to him, a car finally came to a halt
Speaker 1: right in front of Paul. The drive was a woman
Speaker 1: by the name of Joanne Barry. Now, she had her
Speaker 1: family crammed in the back seat, and, though initially hesitant
Speaker 1: to let Paul in, his panic and repeated shouts about
Speaker 1: a gunman chasing him convinced her to have him let in.
Speaker 1: And she hit the gas.
Speaker 2: Okay, wow, thank goodness. Hey, like, even her family in
Speaker 2: the back seat, and she still stops.
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, he piled it. That's amazing, and he's like,
Speaker 1: go and she did so Joanne sped away, leaving Bill
Speaker 1: and his truck in the dust. Joanne, since this situation
Speaker 1: was very serious, I mean, of course, right, yeah, and
Speaker 1: she drove Paul to the nearest police station in Bool. Now.
Speaker 1: Once there, Paul relayed the terrifying details of the encounter
Speaker 1: to an officer who took down his statement. Though shaken,
Speaker 1: Paul reported the full incident and the officer filed the report.
Speaker 1: But unfortunately, nothing ever really came of it.
Speaker 2: Okay, so this was never like linked up until now,
Speaker 2: it was never really linked. Huh.
Speaker 1: So Paul was now left without his backpack, pass port,
Speaker 1: all the possessions. Yeah. Yeah, So he went to Sydney
Speaker 1: to replace his documents, and as soon as he could
Speaker 1: he left Australia. He caught the first flight back to
Speaker 1: the UK, hoping to put this whole nightmare behind him.
Speaker 1: And for a few years, Paul thought it was the
Speaker 1: end of this experience in Australia, unaware that his encounter
Speaker 1: with Bill would become this critical turning point in this
Speaker 1: notorious serial killer case.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, he is very lucky to be alive.
Speaker 1: Oh is he ever? Because he was facing death?
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: And I have a feeling that if he didn't bolt,
Speaker 1: he would have been buried in that forest and potentially
Speaker 1: discovered along the rest of the others.
Speaker 2: Yeah one, Oh my goodness.
Speaker 1: So the story that Paul told seemed almost too incredible
Speaker 1: to believe. Could it really be after all this time,
Speaker 1: that this missing link just kind of popped out of nowhere.
Speaker 1: So police were a little bit like suspicious, like is
Speaker 1: this a real story? Is this a real lead? All
Speaker 1: this right? So Superintendent Small, he knew that he couldn't
Speaker 1: rely on just this man word alone, so he reached
Speaker 1: out to the one person who could verify Paul's account,
Speaker 1: Joanne Barry, the woman whose car Paul had frantically climbed
Speaker 1: it in and she had driven him to safety. So
Speaker 1: after speaking with Joanne and hearing her confirm every detail
Speaker 1: of Paul's story, Small realized that he could be this
Speaker 1: could be the breakthrough in the case. So, without wasting
Speaker 1: any time, Small arranged to have Paul flown to Australia,
Speaker 1: and once there, Paul was shown a photographic lineup of
Speaker 1: potential suspects. Without any hesitation, Paul pointed to a man
Speaker 1: in the lineup and said that is him, one hundred percent,
Speaker 1: and that man was not a man by the name
Speaker 1: of Bill. That man was an individual by the name
Speaker 1: of Ivan Milat.
Speaker 2: Okay, So they already had had this guy kind of
Speaker 2: like as a suspect obviously, but they just hadn't been
Speaker 2: able to, like, you know, have enough evidence to be
Speaker 2: like this is the one.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there was no linking this man, I mean, like, so,
Speaker 1: Ivan was no strain to law enforcement at this time whatsoever.
Speaker 1: For years, he had been on their radar. He was
Speaker 1: known for his violent temper in defiance to hoard authority.
Speaker 1: He had a long record of criminal behavior. He was,
Speaker 1: in fact, one of the most potential suspects in these
Speaker 1: murders and police had him like on the radar. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but until this moment, there was no evidence they came
Speaker 1: him to the crime.
Speaker 2: Huh.
Speaker 1: So Paul's identification was the first piece of the puzzle,
Speaker 1: and Small knew he had enough to take the next step.
Speaker 1: Armed with this new information, Small presented the evidence to
Speaker 1: the judge and secured a warrant to search Ivan's property.
Speaker 1: On the morning in May twenty second, nineteen ninety four,
Speaker 1: nearly fifty police officers surrounded Ivan's home. They were dressed
Speaker 1: in all black and bulletproof vests and prepared for resistance.
Speaker 1: They moved in and as they stormed the house. Ivan
Speaker 1: was unfazed at first. He just kind of laughed it off,
Speaker 1: and apparently he thought that the raid was some kind
Speaker 1: of prank by someone one of his friends or something
Speaker 1: at first. Seriously, yeah, which made it much easier for
Speaker 1: police to get him because he's like, oh, it's a joke,
Speaker 1: it's not real, when really it's like, no, we actually
Speaker 1: just stormed your house and you didn't fight back at all.
Speaker 1: So that's good.
Speaker 2: That is good. Yeah, because yeah, if he I mean,
Speaker 2: but who the heck would just think that's a.
Speaker 1: Joke, I know, So yeah, it quickly became clear to
Speaker 1: Ivan that it was no joke, but it was unfortunately
Speaker 1: for him too Little Two Lakes. He was already in cuffs.
Speaker 2: I mean, I think they would have got him either way,
Speaker 2: though they seem like they're pretty prepared.
Speaker 1: Oh the fifty people.
Speaker 2: Yeah, like, I think they would have got him either way.
Speaker 1: They would have, but I mean the problem is maybe
Speaker 1: they would have got him not alive.
Speaker 4: Right.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but Ivan was arrested, and he was arrested for
Speaker 1: the assault on Paul Onions. Okay, okay, but the police
Speaker 1: were far from finished because of course the search weren't right, Yes,
Speaker 1: so they searched his house, and it yielded a staggering
Speaker 1: amount of evidence.
Speaker 2: Hey, I can imagine.
Speaker 1: Scattered across the rooms were pieces of guns, including parts
Speaker 1: of a twenty two caliber rifle, the same type used
Speaker 1: in the murders. Ammunition case, sorry, ammunitions casings were found,
Speaker 1: and subsequent ballistics testings would later match the bullets recovered
Speaker 1: from those to Joanne Walter's skull. Okay, so the bullets
Speaker 1: found in his house were a positive match for those
Speaker 1: found in the remains of Joanne. Now, even more damning
Speaker 1: was a discovery of personal belongings that once belonged to
Speaker 1: Ivan's victims, things like backpack, sleeping bags, and camping gear
Speaker 1: belonging to murdered travelers who were found throughout the property,
Speaker 1: and in the later search of Ivan's mother's home, police
Speaker 1: uncovered a curved machete locked away in a glass case.
Speaker 1: Investigators believed it could have been used in the decapitation
Speaker 1: of Anya.
Speaker 2: Mm hmm. Here, I'm just like waiting for them to
Speaker 2: also find her head. Does that happen?
Speaker 1: Her head was never found.
Speaker 2: Okay, I don't know why. I just was like, it's
Speaker 2: in the freezer, that's just where my head went, but.
Speaker 1: That's where your head went.
Speaker 2: Terrible terrible words.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 2: Shit, Anyway, I was expecting that to be found, but
Speaker 2: it's not.
Speaker 1: Hey, nope, okay, definitely not so. With this mountain of evidence,
Speaker 1: Small's brought Ivan in for questioning. However, Ivan was a
Speaker 1: seasoned criminal who had spent a lot of his life
Speaker 1: in and out of police stations and enduring questionings and
Speaker 1: all this sort of stuff. He wasn't intimidated at all.
Speaker 1: And he sat there and he refused to cooperate. He
Speaker 1: just sat remained very tight lipped, said nothing. And that's it.
Speaker 2: That's honestly incredible to me that someone being that guilty,
Speaker 2: like they've found a lot of things, can just sit
Speaker 2: there like whatever kind of thing. Yeap, that's shocking, I know.
Speaker 1: Now. Once sabilistic tests came back to match the bullets
Speaker 1: found the crime scene, as I already mentioned right that
Speaker 1: they came but this is when they actually came back,
Speaker 1: Ivan was then officially charged with seven counts of first
Speaker 1: degree murder. He was linked officially to the other ones,
Speaker 1: but still Ivan refused to talk. He was adamant of
Speaker 1: his innocence and despite the accumulating evidence against him, He's
Speaker 1: just like, it wasn't me.
Speaker 2: It wasn't me.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you can, you can call him shaggy at this point.
Speaker 2: Wasn't me. And I'm honestly, I bet you anything. There's
Speaker 2: there's probably a few more, or even like this one.
Speaker 2: I can't remember his name? Was it Bill? Where? Who he? Like? Almost?
Speaker 2: You know? Ones that got away?
Speaker 4: Oh, Paul Paulry? Yeah, No, Ivan claimed his name was Bill, right, Okay.
Speaker 2: I was like, there is a Bill in the story.
Speaker 4: Okay, well a fake bill, a fake bill, yeah, counterfeit.
Speaker 1: See what I did?
Speaker 2: I know? Yeah?
Speaker 1: So when when Paul certain not all name names mixed
Speaker 1: up here? When Ivan's defense attorney, John Marston, who had
Speaker 1: represented him in the past, actually arrived and he took
Speaker 1: a look at the case, the overwhelming case against him, Yeah,
Speaker 1: he immediately urged his client to plead guilty.
Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, I thought he was gonna be like, I'm
Speaker 2: out John, helping you.
Speaker 1: John took one look at the case. He's like, Ivan,
Speaker 1: plead guilty because you fucked.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1: Could you imagine His defense attorney.
Speaker 2: Is like, nope, there's nothing I can do basically, huh.
Speaker 1: Ivan, however, insisted that he was innocent and he fired
Speaker 1: John Marston right then and there and continued to proclaim
Speaker 1: his innocence. So Ivan entered a plea of not guilty
Speaker 1: on all charges, and this set the stage for a
Speaker 1: very high profile trial.
Speaker 2: What a cocky motherfucker really, I know, right? Unreal? Unreal.
Speaker 1: After numerous delays, the trial finally began on March of
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety six. The man who had come face to
Speaker 1: face with me lat or sorry, Ivan Melat and lived
Speaker 1: to tell a tale, Paul Onion, was the prosecution's star witness.
Speaker 1: Despite the defense's attempt to disrespect him, Paul handled the
Speaker 1: cross examination with confidence. Sorry, I said disrespect, but discredit
Speaker 1: was the what I meant to say. Yeah, So he
Speaker 1: held the cross examination very well and with very full
Speaker 1: confidence in his story. Paul's testimony, along with the vast
Speaker 1: amount of physical evidence, eventually proved to be too much
Speaker 1: for Ivan, and after weeks of testimony, the jury was
Speaker 1: left with very little doubt. Now, I do want to say,
Speaker 1: as far as physical evidence goes, I believe they had
Speaker 1: over four hundred pieces of physical evidence.
Speaker 2: Okay, and he's still just ut there wasn't me like,
Speaker 2: are you kidding me?
Speaker 1: Yeap, So we're talking matching bullets. We're talking the cartridges,
Speaker 1: we're talking the machete found. But I don't think they
Speaker 1: can they found blood or anything. I think it's just
Speaker 1: you know, yeah, they're talking about like items, personal items.
Speaker 1: Potentially they even had Paul's personal items that he was
Speaker 1: able to identify. I'm not too sure they had all
Speaker 1: these things. They had up to four hundred things pieces
Speaker 1: of evidence connecting him.
Speaker 2: Well, they did a damn good job, then that's awesome.
Speaker 1: Yeah they did so. In an attempt to defend himself,
Speaker 1: Ivan took the stand, and of course he just claimed
Speaker 1: his innocence. However, his defense unraveled very quickly under cross examination,
Speaker 1: and he weakly attempted to shift the blame onto his
Speaker 1: brothers for all the evidence found in his home, an
Speaker 1: explanation that failed to hold up under scrutiny in court.
Speaker 1: Right The trial, which lasted for a total of fifteen weeks,
Speaker 1: concluded on July twenty seventh in nineteen ninety six. After
Speaker 1: three days of deliberation, the jury returned with a unanimous
Speaker 1: verdict guilty on all accounts. Ivan Milat was sentenced to
Speaker 1: seven consecutive life sentences for the murders. As well as
Speaker 1: an additional six years for the assault on Paul Onions.
Speaker 1: Though Melat was now locked away, police believed that the
Speaker 1: dark secrets of the State forest had yet to be
Speaker 1: fully unlocked and uncovered. So numerous unsolved disappearances along the
Speaker 1: Hume Highway raised the possibility that Melat. I'm sorry, Ivan Melat,
Speaker 1: I have his last name written in here several times. Sorry,
Speaker 1: I'm refrained. So Ivan was responsible for even more murders
Speaker 1: because it's like they're still missing people out right, right,
Speaker 1: But despite thorough investigation, authorities were unable to definitively tie
Speaker 1: him to any of these other missing cases. Yeah. Now,
Speaker 1: in two thousand and five, Ivan's former attorney, John Marston
Speaker 1: made a reassurgence in this case with a startling claim
Speaker 1: Ivan had allegedly confessed to him that a woman had
Speaker 1: sometimes been involved in carrying out the murders. Huh Now,
Speaker 1: I just want to point this out. Sorry, go ahead, Well.
Speaker 2: I was just going to say that kind of makes
Speaker 2: sense for like getting easily like more people trusting to
Speaker 2: get in his vehicle and stuff, right, so.
Speaker 1: For sure, but also that's a confession. Yeah, Like Ivan
Speaker 1: just confessed and he's.
Speaker 2: Always like an ins Oh, yeah.
Speaker 1: He's like someone else helped me murder, right, that is
Speaker 1: totally that's a confession, totally.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Okay, I went way off on something else.
Speaker 4: Yeah, but yeah, that totally is so yeah, I just
Speaker 4: want to throw that out there.
Speaker 1: But this fueled speculation of yeah, someone else being involved, right,
Speaker 1: because a lot of people for a long time believe
Speaker 1: that because of the sheer brutality the crimes, particularly the
Speaker 1: particularly the methodical torture and overpowering of the victims, suggested
Speaker 1: the involvement of more than one person. However, despite these
Speaker 1: suspicions these claims, no accomplice has ever been identified or charged. Now,
Speaker 1: adding to that uncertain though surrounding Ivan's saying that you
Speaker 1: know another woman was involved or whatever, there was someone
Speaker 1: who came forward after his arrest, a woman asserting that
Speaker 1: her husband by the name of Win Kasperceek had been
Speaker 1: the true culprit behind the backpack murders and not Ivan.
Speaker 1: Now this woman claims that, yeah, it's like it's my
Speaker 1: husband who's the murderer.
Speaker 2: She really doesn't want to be with her husband anymore.
Speaker 1: Hey, apparently now Winn had eventually been arrested in nineteen
Speaker 1: ninety four but it was not for any of the killings,
Speaker 1: and these claims cast a lot of doubt in the
Speaker 1: mind of people. But I mean, as I mentioned, there's
Speaker 1: more than four hundred pieces of evidence of items that
Speaker 1: link I even himself to Well.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it's certain that he was very much
Speaker 2: so involved. It's just trying to figure out if there's
Speaker 2: someone else as well.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but this woman claims it's her husband, not Ivan.
Speaker 1: All the evidence points to Ivan, nothing points to her husband.
Speaker 2: Well, maybe he's the one that has all these other victims,
Speaker 2: you know, who knows now.
Speaker 1: May twenty nineteen, Ivan was admitted to the Prince of
Speaker 1: Wales Hospital for serious health issues and was soon diagnosed
Speaker 1: with terminal esopha geal and stomach cancer. With his time
Speaker 1: running out, police made several attempts to extract a deathbed
Speaker 1: confession from him, hoping he might finally admit to the
Speaker 1: crimes or reveal unknown victims and where to find them.
Speaker 1: Investigators visited him a total of eight times using different methods,
Speaker 1: you know, approaching him with different investigators showing him videos
Speaker 1: of interviews with victims' families, hoping to stir a sense
Speaker 1: of guilt or remorse. But Ivan remained silent and remains
Speaker 1: saying that he's innotent, innotant innocent.
Speaker 2: Just nothing from him.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's just until the very end he's like nope.
Speaker 2: Huh. I mean, I mean that's kind of surprising, but
Speaker 2: also not really because this guy seems like he's a
Speaker 2: piece of shit.
Speaker 1: So yeah. On October twenty seventh, twenty nineteen, Ivan Milett
Speaker 1: died from cancer, taking his secrets to the grave without
Speaker 1: ever confessing to murders for which that he had convicted.
Speaker 1: He was convicted except for the alleged I mean, it
Speaker 1: wasn't directly from him. It was his defense attorney that
Speaker 1: said he said it.
Speaker 2: But I feel like that's so interesting too, because I thought,
Speaker 2: maybe I'm completely wrong, but I thought things that you
Speaker 2: said to your defense attorney is supposed to just stay
Speaker 2: with them, isn't it.
Speaker 1: Kind of I mean, technically he was also fired to.
Speaker 2: I don't know, okay, okay, not.
Speaker 1: Certain but anyways, despite his refusal to admit guilt, Ivan's
Speaker 1: brittal crime has left an incredible mark on Australia, this
Speaker 1: being one of the most prolific cases in Australia's history,
Speaker 1: and as I mentioned, the intro This story even inspired
Speaker 1: the horror film Wolf Creek and yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm not certain I want to watch that.
Speaker 1: We will be watching it tonight. Are going to check
Speaker 1: it out?
Speaker 2: Apparently I don't get a choice.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Now the movie is, though there are some similarities,
Speaker 1: it is a bit different and the uh without spoiling anything,
Speaker 1: they managed to even Paul's experiences a bit of into
Speaker 1: the story as well, which I really like.
Speaker 2: Okay, so so yeah, probably scariest shit though I can
Speaker 2: only imagine this movie.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, it's it's interesting.
Speaker 2: Cool. So well, I'm going to edit during it so
Speaker 2: that I have something else to like focus on that
Speaker 2: right distraction?
Speaker 1: Make you feel better? Yeah, fair enough? But yeah, that
Speaker 1: is as I mentioned, that's the story of the Wolf
Speaker 1: Creek Killer because it got the name from the movie.
Speaker 1: The Backpack Murders and Ivan Milatt all wrapped into one
Speaker 1: horrific douche canoe.
Speaker 2: It's so sad that just like as the years have
Speaker 2: gone on and stuff, it's how evident it is that
Speaker 2: you just can't trust anyone, you know, like back then
Speaker 2: it's so cool that well not cool, but like that
Speaker 2: you could go in someone's vehicle and I mean like
Speaker 2: probably not fearlet are ninety nine times out of a
Speaker 2: thousand are probably even greater than that. Like you're fine,
Speaker 2: Like it's fine, You're just getting to meet other people, right,
Speaker 2: But then so much shit has come about of this
Speaker 2: trusting people, and now it's just the world's changed.
Speaker 1: Well, I do want to say say one thing here.
Speaker 1: I do think I mean, and I'm saying this because
Speaker 1: like it's such a it's so easy to say that
Speaker 1: there's so much distrust in the world and there's so
Speaker 1: many bad people out there. I do still think that
Speaker 1: there's so many good people out there.
Speaker 2: Oh, the majority of people are good.
Speaker 1: But you're saying back then, hitchhiking ninety nine, one hundred
Speaker 1: or what was your number.
Speaker 2: I think it's a nine hundred and ninety nine out
Speaker 2: of a thousand. It went, well, I'm just going to
Speaker 2: go probably I'm.
Speaker 1: Going to go percentage wise ninety nine percent out of time,
Speaker 1: nine percent out of time, ninety nine percent of the time.
Speaker 1: You used to be able to go hitchhiking and be safe. Well,
Speaker 1: nowadays the implication is that that number is much lower.
Speaker 1: Imagine Paul's situation happening right now today and wherever you live, Okay,
Speaker 1: someone is chasing you, wanting to kill you, and you
Speaker 1: run out into traffic, I guarantee ninety nine percent of
Speaker 1: those people are willing to help you.
Speaker 2: Well, kay, I'm not saying it's it's more scary now,
Speaker 2: per se. I'm just saying we've learned from all these
Speaker 2: stories that like, I mean, we're just people are a
Speaker 2: little bit more like, you know, they know what could
Speaker 2: potentially happen more so it's like a little bit more
Speaker 2: distrusting or whatever. I still think that there's still like
Speaker 2: just as many good people and bad people and stuff.
Speaker 1: But yeah, no, they just.
Speaker 2: Think nowadays, more people would stop in that.
Speaker 1: No, I'm not saying more people would stop. I'm saying then,
Speaker 1: in that exact incident with Paul, when he climbed into
Speaker 1: I believe her name was Joanne, Yeah, he had a
Speaker 1: ninety nine percent chance of climbing into someone's car who
Speaker 1: was going to help him not hurt him, right, And
Speaker 1: I think if that were to be you or me
Speaker 1: or whoever's listening you as well, if you were doing
Speaker 1: that today, you have a ninety nine percent chance to
Speaker 1: climb into the vehicle of someone who will help you
Speaker 1: hurt you. Yeah, Yes, there's distrust. People don't want to
Speaker 1: bring in a weirdo into their car. You don't want
Speaker 1: to get into a stranger's car. That distrust is much
Speaker 1: larger than it was then, But I think the rate
Speaker 1: of good people willing to help you is still there.
Speaker 2: Can you imagine that if you got into someone's vehicle
Speaker 2: who is also a complete piece of shit and then
Speaker 2: it just happens like again, oh man, holy like you
Speaker 2: would have some shitty luck. Hey.
Speaker 1: That reminds me of like a TikTok I saw back
Speaker 1: in the day, where it's like someone's hitch hiking and
Speaker 1: they get into the vehicle and then the drivers like
Speaker 1: going there, like you're not a serial killer? Are you?
Speaker 1: And then the person hitchhiking's like me no, he's like
Speaker 1: you and the driver's like what me no, And they're
Speaker 1: both like no, And then like the person hitchhiking's like okay, good.
Speaker 1: Could you imagine the odds of two serial killers being
Speaker 1: in the car and the guy's like, wait, you are
Speaker 1: a serial killer?
Speaker 2: Me too?
Speaker 1: And then it's like wait, really you are you the
Speaker 1: the hitchhikerumer And then it's just like two murderers like
Speaker 1: getting along.
Speaker 2: Oh, like a budding friendship forming.
Speaker 1: Hey pretty much?
Speaker 2: Oh brutal?
Speaker 1: Thankfully that's just a TikTok and not real life.
Speaker 2: But yeah, uh, well, we have covered stories. I feel
Speaker 2: like we're like bad people, murderers, some connect in some
Speaker 2: way and become friends.
Speaker 1: Oh definitely, we have the thing. Yeah. Yeah, and we
Speaker 1: have covered other hitch hiking situations. Like I'm thinking, what's
Speaker 1: the was it the kenon Barbie or was it like
Speaker 1: Girl in a Box? Have we covered the girl in
Speaker 1: the box story we have?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Okay, I think that that's one.
Speaker 2: There's a couple that we have done and I can't
Speaker 2: recall like the exact stories off the top of my head.
Speaker 1: I can't recall all of them either, but there's one
Speaker 1: that's sticking out to me and I think it's I
Speaker 1: think it's Girl in a Box.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I think that's the one where she was hitchhiking as well,
Speaker 1: because it was like a family in the car and
Speaker 1: she got in and then it, yeah, it went sours
Speaker 1: and didn't they.
Speaker 2: Like put her head in a box in the car?
Speaker 1: I think so? Yeah, I think so the box inside
Speaker 1: was carpeted to prevent the streams getting up.
Speaker 2: Yeah, just the worst oh man. Yeah, people suck, like,
Speaker 2: very few people suck, but they very few.
Speaker 1: People suck and they ruin it for the rest of us.
Speaker 2: Yes, exactly. So that's the moral of the story.
Speaker 1: That's the moral. Yeah, moral of the story is some
Speaker 1: people suck and they wreck it for us.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Anyways, go check out our social media if you want
Speaker 1: to get more behind the scenes where we mentioned that
Speaker 1: we are doing a thirty one days of Halloween movies,
Speaker 1: you can check that out over on Patreon. It is
Speaker 1: a subscription place where you go and get that exclusive
Speaker 1: content and all that sort of stuff. We are you
Speaker 1: be posting our annual Halloween photo shoot over on Instagram
Speaker 1: and Facebook. I'll probably post a little bit more photos
Speaker 1: on Patreon too, so you see a little bit more
Speaker 1: of the to shoot. But yeah, all our links are
Speaker 1: down below. Thanks for being here.
Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you so much. So until Friday, Stay Wicked.
Speaker 1: Was that good enough?
Speaker 2: I thought, so do it again? Then?
Speaker 1: Okay, stay Wicked.
Speaker 2: I think the first one was better.
Speaker 1: Shit, Okay, Stay Wicked.
Speaker 2: There you go.