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<v Speaker 1>Hello there, welcome to the ned Palty.

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<v Speaker 2>Hi.

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<v Speaker 3>This is Nick and Ostasium, lead editor and writer on

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<v Speaker 3>mal Shadow Lord, and you're listening to Aggressive Negotiations.

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<v Speaker 2>Hello, and welcome to the library section of Aggressive Negotiations,

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<v Speaker 2>the Star Wars podcast on the Nerd Party Network that

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<v Speaker 2>strives to expand your reading horizons and remind you that

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<v Speaker 2>Jedi reading is fundamental. I'm one of your hosts, Jedi

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<v Speaker 2>Master John Mills, and I'm joined with the erudite scholar

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<v Speaker 2>of the Jedi, Jedi Master, Matthew Rushing. Matt, are you

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<v Speaker 2>prepared to discuss an exciting surprise topic here on Aggressive Negotiations?

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<v Speaker 1>Oh?

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, sorry, John, I was just trying to be really

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<v Speaker 4>quiet because the Jedi librarian just told me to shut

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<v Speaker 4>up a few minutes ago, so sorry about that. But yeah,

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<v Speaker 4>I'm actually really really excited to talk about this. Do

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<v Speaker 4>you think we could find maybe a room where we

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<v Speaker 4>could talk a little bit louder for our listeners.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm glad you asked, Matt, because I don't want to

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<v Speaker 2>balance this show and editing anymore than I have to.

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<v Speaker 2>So we will start talking at normal volume now, and

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<v Speaker 2>you know what, you can start leaving us reviews at

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<v Speaker 2>normal volume in Apple Podcasts and give us a star

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<v Speaker 2>rating and review, and go over to the socials and

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<v Speaker 2>find us at the Jedi Masters on Twitter and look

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<v Speaker 2>for at join nerd Party on Twitter and the Nerd

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<v Speaker 2>Party on Facebook and Instagram. And I'll give you a

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<v Speaker 2>little tease here. I downloaded TikTok the other day because

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<v Speaker 2>my daughters send me so many things on TikTok that

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<v Speaker 2>I figured I might as well have the app to

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<v Speaker 2>make it easier to open them. But that doesn't mean

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<v Speaker 2>I'm going to post anything anyway, Matt. This is just

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<v Speaker 2>a random sort of thing. I was in a bookstore

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<v Speaker 2>the other day. I know, knock me over with a feather.

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<v Speaker 2>They reopened a Barnes and Noble near where I hang out.

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<v Speaker 2>Totally mind blowing is I was like, wait, there's a

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<v Speaker 2>new Barnes. What so, whoever's in charge of that chain,

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<v Speaker 2>bravo to you. You figured out how to bring it

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<v Speaker 2>back from the dead. Now, whoever owns borders get to work.

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<v Speaker 2>So I'm in Barnes and Noble, and what do you

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<v Speaker 2>do you walk into a bookstore? What is a section

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<v Speaker 2>that you're inevitably going to gravitate over toward I know

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<v Speaker 2>you go to one of the same sections I do,

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<v Speaker 2>and drum roll.

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<v Speaker 1>Please it is the sci fi section.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, because you're looking under s four what Star Wars

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<v Speaker 2>books are there? Thank you very much. It's a compulsion.

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<v Speaker 2>You can't help yourself, right, Sure, you have to. You

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<v Speaker 2>have to gravitate on over there. And it was really

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<v Speaker 2>interesting because one Sunday after church, we go over there

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<v Speaker 2>and we're hanging out. I gravitate over toward the Star

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<v Speaker 2>Wars section and I wind up embarrassing my kids because

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<v Speaker 2>I strike up a conversation accidentally with this woman who's

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<v Speaker 2>there with her husband and kid, and we just started

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<v Speaker 2>talking about Star Wars books. And she, you know, most

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<v Speaker 2>of the world is a little younger than me, I guess,

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<v Speaker 2>and you know, we start talking about she he hasn't

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<v Speaker 2>read Kenoby by John Jackson Miller. And she's sitting there

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<v Speaker 2>She's like, is that a good one? I was like, oh, yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>John Jackson Miller. I'm like, look for that name. He's

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<v Speaker 2>good writer, you know, especially in franchise work. He's great.

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<v Speaker 2>And I mentioned as Batman books that he's also written

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<v Speaker 2>that are really good, Batman Resurrection and Batman Revolution, highly

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<v Speaker 2>recommend them everybody anyway. So I'm like, oh, yeah, Canoby's good.

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<v Speaker 2>And we start talking about the Star Wars books and

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<v Speaker 2>I realize as I'm looking at the books on the shelf,

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<v Speaker 2>everything's got legends on it. There's like one or two

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<v Speaker 2>High Republic books on there, and then there's like Mask

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<v Speaker 2>of Fears on there, but almost everything is legends. And

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<v Speaker 2>so my question to you is, is Star Wars publishing

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<v Speaker 2>in trouble? Like? Am I blind to an issue with

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<v Speaker 2>Star Wars publishing? Why am I not seeing new Star

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<v Speaker 2>Wars books set in prequel era or even an original

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<v Speaker 2>trilogy era in this new canon? What am I missing?

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<v Speaker 2>What's the whole here? Or is this simply because I

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<v Speaker 2>happen to look at the bookshelf at the wrong time.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I mean, I think that's a good question, And

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<v Speaker 1>a big part of that is is you know, you're

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<v Speaker 1>you're not wrong. There are not a lot of books

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<v Speaker 1>that are coming out at the moment, and they're they're

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<v Speaker 1>they're kind of few and far between.

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<v Speaker 3>And.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, in what's coming out, you know, you maybe

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<v Speaker 1>get one or two a year, I think it most

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<v Speaker 1>And so, uh, yeah, novel wise, I mean, yeah, the

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<v Speaker 1>High Republic came out and and and did it finished,

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<v Speaker 1>And you know that it wasn't necessarily a huge hit

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<v Speaker 1>except for a small segment of fans which they liked it.

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<v Speaker 1>That's great, more power to them. Glad you enjoyed it. Uh,

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<v Speaker 1>But you know, in that sense, publishing had taken a

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<v Speaker 1>big swing, right. They put a lot behind that, and

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<v Speaker 1>when it did not do what they had hoped, I

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<v Speaker 1>think they were kind of left a little bit high

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<v Speaker 1>and dry.

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<v Speaker 3>You know.

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<v Speaker 1>The the other thing that's coming out, like you said,

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<v Speaker 1>you've you've got the Dark Times series with like starting

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<v Speaker 1>with Mask of Fear, as you mentioned, where we're telling

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<v Speaker 1>stories for Man Mathma and Belle Organa and saw Guerera

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<v Speaker 1>and you know, filling in the stuff that you didn't

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<v Speaker 1>see for and Or Right, there's a lot there still

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<v Speaker 1>for them, especially those early years that we don't know

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<v Speaker 1>tons about. And then you know, like this year, this

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<v Speaker 1>month actually at the end of this month as we're recording,

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<v Speaker 1>is July, there's a book called Star Wars Legacy that's

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<v Speaker 1>coming out, which is set between the Last Jedi and

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<v Speaker 1>the Rise of Skywalker, and it's all about Lea and

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<v Speaker 1>Ray training together. I mean, they did just put out

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<v Speaker 1>and it's coming out. I have the review copy of this,

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<v Speaker 1>and it's one I would ilokremen because it's great, because

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<v Speaker 1>all the art of books are so wonderful. But they

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<v Speaker 1>did the two seasons for and Or beautiful book and

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<v Speaker 1>really well done, some amazing insights. And you know, whether

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<v Speaker 1>you liked the show or not, the production value for

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<v Speaker 1>that was bar No, the production.

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<v Speaker 2>Value is tough. Not so yeah, I know the art

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<v Speaker 2>of yeah, and the art of like you're saying, the

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<v Speaker 2>art of books always do incredibly well with presenting, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>the process with that. And I think anybody, regardless of

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<v Speaker 2>what they think of the and Or series, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>both seasons, would recognize the production quality on the show

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<v Speaker 2>is insane. Yeah, Like it's really They obviously spared no

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<v Speaker 2>expense in building that show. But I mean, I guess

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<v Speaker 2>the larger thing is is I guess the philosophical question

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<v Speaker 2>I would put out there is has the publishing arm

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<v Speaker 2>of Star Wars lost sight of the fact that the

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<v Speaker 2>way that you retain your active fan base is your

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<v Speaker 2>cranking these out like the pulp novels that inspired Lucas,

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, the salad days of the nineties. Listen, I'm

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<v Speaker 2>going to preface this by saying, and I've said it

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<v Speaker 2>many times, when Disney came forward before The Force Awakens

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<v Speaker 2>and said they were throwing out the old expanded Universe,

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<v Speaker 2>you can bear witness to this. Matt. My reaction was, Oh,

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<v Speaker 2>thank god, I was so overburned with all of that stuff.

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<v Speaker 2>I was so happy they were doing that.

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<v Speaker 1>That is absolutely how you felt. I remember, and I

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<v Speaker 1>am the conversations.

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<v Speaker 2>I am not going to issue statements of whether in

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<v Speaker 2>retrospect it was as good a decision as I think

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<v Speaker 2>they thought it was right. That's immaterial. I think that

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<v Speaker 2>I enjoyed coming up in the nineties, when it seemed

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<v Speaker 2>that after they had success with the Zoon trilogy, they said,

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<v Speaker 2>oh wow, we've got something here, and it felt like

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<v Speaker 2>there was a new book coming out every six months.

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<v Speaker 2>And some of them sucked, they really did, but enough

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<v Speaker 2>of them were good that it was it kept you,

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<v Speaker 2>it kept you going back. Okay, it's eight bucks, it's

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<v Speaker 2>seven bucks, Sure, whatever, I'll spend it. It's a couple

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<v Speaker 2>of weeks of entertainment for me because I'm a slow reader.

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<v Speaker 2>But have they lost sight of that? Do you think

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<v Speaker 2>that's the issue, is that they're two in their heads,

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<v Speaker 2>and they're not just cranking it out and just saying,

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<v Speaker 2>forget trying to make an eight plus each time. Your

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<v Speaker 2>batting average is what you got to go for, not

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<v Speaker 2>a home run each time.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, I just think that this is the thing.

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<v Speaker 1>Like and Star Trek books struggled the same way in

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<v Speaker 1>that sense, when you know the show was on the air,

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<v Speaker 1>to write books that didn't cocked or dicked anything was

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<v Speaker 1>really difficult because the show's doing written. You don't know

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<v Speaker 1>what's going to happen, you don't know where you're going right,

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<v Speaker 1>and you know, the publishing arm had such a boom

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<v Speaker 1>in the nineties because nobody thought more Star Wars was coming.

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<v Speaker 1>They pretty much had free reign. There were some rules

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<v Speaker 1>that Lucas had laid down about different things. You know,

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<v Speaker 1>you couldn't tell a story about Yoda. You couldn't do

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<v Speaker 1>this with these characters. You know, nobody could die until

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<v Speaker 1>you know, famously with the New Jedi Order. Then you

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<v Speaker 1>needed somebody to kill, and they decided on Chewy, and

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<v Speaker 1>Lucas okayed it, you know, so or he came in

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<v Speaker 1>and stepped in in that series and said, hey, I

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<v Speaker 1>need you to kill Anakin solo because we're about to

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<v Speaker 1>do the prequels and I don't want there being too

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<v Speaker 1>competing Anakins. So that's the reason that character guide instead

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<v Speaker 1>of his brother Jason, which you know that does not

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<v Speaker 1>turn out well for that run of books anyway, because

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<v Speaker 1>Jason turns into be a huge tool. That's not the

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<v Speaker 1>point I'm trying to make. The point I'm trying to

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<v Speaker 1>make is is that which?

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<v Speaker 2>But let me interject that feels really like Anakin could

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<v Speaker 2>have done his grandfather's service by sort of repeating that.

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<v Speaker 1>But hey, yeah, exactly. But I think think, yeah, it

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<v Speaker 1>really is this thing where they're so afraid not to

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<v Speaker 1>touch on anything that it's hard to tell important stories,

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<v Speaker 1>you know. I mean, I think, you know, some of

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<v Speaker 1>our favorite books obviously were the throng books that Zoon

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<v Speaker 1>did and the way he was able to tie all

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<v Speaker 1>that together. You know, there were some other books in

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<v Speaker 1>the series earlier that I really liked. But it feels like,

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<v Speaker 1>and this might be the thing. And I don't know

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<v Speaker 1>it's because you know, they're still so active in that

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<v Speaker 1>time period, but there are stories that seems like in

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<v Speaker 1>the prequel era to tell, and even again even before

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<v Speaker 1>the prequel era right in the sense of why can't

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<v Speaker 1>you go back and tell the Obi Wan story? You know,

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<v Speaker 1>like that seems to be the place where we're missing

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<v Speaker 1>free reign, where it's like, you know, you have Filonian

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<v Speaker 1>charge now of Lucasfilm Creative and and and this the

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<v Speaker 1>co CEO of the company, and so he could easily

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<v Speaker 1>tell publishing, hey, you can play in this part of

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<v Speaker 1>the galaxy, and these are the if they're you, you

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<v Speaker 1>have to run every story the idea buy me. But

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<v Speaker 1>as long as I okay it, it's fine, man, and

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<v Speaker 1>just go play with it. And until I say no, yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>enjoy yourselves. You know, I don't understand why we're not

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<v Speaker 1>doing that, because it feels like they keep trying to

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<v Speaker 1>tell stories in places where it's difficult for them to

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<v Speaker 1>get the okay to actually tell a good story there.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean so that I don't know, man, it is

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<v Speaker 1>a strange thing because like when we did that the

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<v Speaker 1>the Clone War saves the you know, helped save Star Wars.

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<v Speaker 1>I publishing I think helped save Star Wars in the

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<v Speaker 1>sense that it kept it alive for fans and fan

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<v Speaker 1>you know, people of this generation don't understand what it

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<v Speaker 1>was like to go into the bookstore and see that

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<v Speaker 1>there was a New Star Wars book there and realize

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<v Speaker 1>that could be the only New Star Wars you ever get.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I can say that, and this will be a

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<v Speaker 2>terrible way to put it, and people might groan, But

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<v Speaker 2>sometimes the publishing could be the methodone to your heroin addiction,

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<v Speaker 2>because you know you're like, okay, well I can't get

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<v Speaker 2>the real thing, so okay, I'll ride this out. But additionally,

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<v Speaker 2>I want to go back to something you said where

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<v Speaker 2>it's like, oh, it's hard to tell an important story.

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<v Speaker 2>The stuff in the nineties and even the two thousands,

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<v Speaker 2>when they were playing in the prequel era, they didn't

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<v Speaker 2>worry about the whether it was an important story or not.

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<v Speaker 2>It was just about producing a story. You look at

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<v Speaker 2>the tales of the Empire or tales of the Bounty

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<v Speaker 2>Hunters series. None of those stories were particularly important. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>they were just there and it was just to keep

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<v Speaker 2>the franchise alive. And I think it what they're sleeping

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<v Speaker 2>on is there is a tremendous opportunity with the Mando

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<v Speaker 2>series telling side characters. You could have a Grief Cargo series,

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<v Speaker 2>you can have a Karen Done series. You could have

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<v Speaker 2>whatever you wanted. You know what, you don't get to

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<v Speaker 2>make Rangers of the New Republic. Turn it into a

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<v Speaker 2>book series. Yeah, throw it out there. Do the book

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<v Speaker 2>series thing. Have that do some of the lifting for

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<v Speaker 2>the fans, and then just make the screen stuff accessible

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<v Speaker 2>for everybody else, just like Lucas did, where it was like, Okay,

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<v Speaker 2>the on screen stuff is accessible for everybody, but then

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<v Speaker 2>you and me we could go to the bookstore. We

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<v Speaker 2>could read Karen Travis's Clone series, which I really loved.

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<v Speaker 1>It was really great.

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<v Speaker 2>And you know, like I mean, it's just one of

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<v Speaker 2>those things where it's like they're so precious about it.

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<v Speaker 2>I think they just need to just lose in their

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<v Speaker 2>sphincters and just let it go. Man.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, It's it's hard, man, because I think too, and

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<v Speaker 1>maybe this will change. And I think that you bringing

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<v Speaker 1>up this question is a really interesting thing because I

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<v Speaker 1>do wonder if this might change here as Folony fully

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<v Speaker 1>cements himself being in charge, and I think it might

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<v Speaker 1>be because he truly understands his vision for where the

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<v Speaker 1>series is going right and the stories that he wants

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<v Speaker 1>to tell and how it all connects. In that sense,

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<v Speaker 1>like I think that there is a possibility that we

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<v Speaker 1>might be able to see more in the publishing rather

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<v Speaker 1>than less because of that possibility, because he can okay

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<v Speaker 1>certain stories without worrying about stepping on the toes of

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<v Speaker 1>anything that is planned on coming up right, even in

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<v Speaker 1>it if it's in his mind as like a ten

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<v Speaker 1>year plan, you know, like that's the kind of thing

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<v Speaker 1>I want to hit. So I don't want people touching that.

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<v Speaker 1>But hey, this over here that people might have thought

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<v Speaker 1>is going to be out of bounds, No, that's totally

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<v Speaker 1>in bounce, you know. So I do wonder. And that's

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<v Speaker 1>the other thing, like right you you know, I I've

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<v Speaker 1>talked to enough of the tie in authors on the

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<v Speaker 1>Star Trek side to understand. I mean, for these guys

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<v Speaker 1>to write a book, you know, it takes a certain

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<v Speaker 1>amount of time anyway, and then it's got to go

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<v Speaker 1>through the editing process, and so you know, you're talking

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<v Speaker 1>like a year. It's worth of work. And so you know,

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<v Speaker 1>now that Filony is in charge, maybe this will be

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<v Speaker 1>something that will actually see a bit of a revolution,

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<v Speaker 1>a bit of a resurgence because they understand the stories

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<v Speaker 1>they can tell, which I think would be great, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, like because like you you know, I one

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<v Speaker 1>hundred percent under I one hundred percent love Star Wars books.

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<v Speaker 2>Right.

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<v Speaker 1>I have personally been reading through the New Jedi Order

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<v Speaker 1>series this year because I haven't read it since it

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<v Speaker 1>came out, you know, it's been a very long time,

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<v Speaker 1>and it was just something I was like, you know what,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm going to go back and reread that. So I bought.

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<v Speaker 1>I've got the books for that. I've got the next series,

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<v Speaker 1>which I think is a legacy in the Force, and

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<v Speaker 1>then I've got Fate of the Jedi after that, and

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<v Speaker 1>I'm like, yeah, I'm just going to go through basically

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<v Speaker 1>the end of the Legends era and enjoy it. And

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<v Speaker 1>like I'm a little more than halfway done through you know,

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<v Speaker 1>New Jedi Order, and for the most part, most of

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<v Speaker 1>the books have held up and I've enjoyed reading them.

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<v Speaker 1>And so like maybe that's why too. You go to

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<v Speaker 1>the store, right, and you know, those books just continue

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<v Speaker 1>to be popular. There's enough of them out there for

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<v Speaker 1>them to be popular, and they obviously still make enough

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<v Speaker 1>money that they are, you know, putting them out with

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<v Speaker 1>a new cover, you know, and because they've been redoing

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<v Speaker 1>a bunch of those books with in the trade paperback format,

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<v Speaker 1>because a lot of them just came out originally in

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<v Speaker 1>the mass market papermacs, which nobody buys anymore. Everything's trade

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<v Speaker 1>paperback now, and so they, you know, have a reason

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<v Speaker 1>for people to come and pick them up again. And

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<v Speaker 1>so I don't know, man, it does go to show though,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, those those books that really stuck with fans,

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<v Speaker 1>then it's interesting to see them still stick with fans now.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, And I think that the last call I would

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<v Speaker 2>make is that fans themselves need to unclench their sphincters

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<v Speaker 2>about continuity because first and foremost there were problems with

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<v Speaker 2>original EU continuity all over the place. It was one

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<v Speaker 2>of the things that got tiring for me, was carrying

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<v Speaker 2>one way or the other. But like you know, even

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<v Speaker 2>when continuity got over written by something on screen, that's

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<v Speaker 2>what people really need to just step back from. Because

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<v Speaker 2>I could, you know, I could talk about you mentioned

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<v Speaker 2>the Zon trilogy, Spardy Cylinders. I look those up, kids,

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<v Speaker 2>Like the whole history of the Clone Wars was completely

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<v Speaker 2>different in your head.

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<v Speaker 1>Came back to it.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, I always complained about Boba Fett's history, or

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<v Speaker 2>the Mandalorians, or the history of the Jedi or anything

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<v Speaker 2>even number of things, and then you bring in you've

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<v Speaker 2>been on a rereading the New Jedi Order, and you're

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<v Speaker 2>going on the legacy of the Force and everything. My

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<v Speaker 2>whole thing is, I've been rereading the graphic novels or

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<v Speaker 2>the graphic trade paperbacks, the collection, the series collections and

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<v Speaker 2>stuff like that, and it's fascinating to me because there

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<v Speaker 2>are so many great ideas just in those that you

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<v Speaker 2>could mine. And I'll tell you a Star Wars legacy,

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<v Speaker 2>which was its own series.

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<v Speaker 1>I remember that. Yep. I read the whole thing Man.

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<v Speaker 2>Comics, and it kills me because what they've done on

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<v Speaker 2>screen means that they can't possibly really adapt it unless

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<v Speaker 2>they go back and ret on the idea that Luke

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<v Speaker 2>had a kid we didn't know about by the time

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<v Speaker 2>we met Red and it's like that that's a little heartbreaking,

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<v Speaker 2>but you know what, you could still work, although they'll

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<v Speaker 2>never work in Mara Jade, because it seems like Lucas

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<v Speaker 2>that was the one thing he dug his heels in.

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<v Speaker 1>He seemed to really hate her, and.

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<v Speaker 2>I maybe we need to look up if his heart

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<v Speaker 2>was broken by a Redhead at some point in the past.

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<v Speaker 2>Maybe that's maybe that's the problem. Maybe if we changed

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<v Speaker 2>Mara J to a brunette, we can get her through

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<v Speaker 2>the process. Here, let's let's discuss this, you know that

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<v Speaker 2>sort of thing. But you know, Matt, if people want

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<v Speaker 2>to discuss any other type of hair color that mar

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<v Speaker 2>J could have to get her worked back into continuity.

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<v Speaker 2>Where could they find you online?

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<v Speaker 1>Well, you can find me all over the place on

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<v Speaker 1>social media and the named Matt Rushing zero two here

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<v Speaker 1>in the network did a show called Outposts about every

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<v Speaker 1>single chapter the Harry Potter series. TFM Network got a

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<v Speaker 1>bunch of shows talking about Star Trek with my good

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<v Speaker 1>friend Chris Jones, and then I'm over there as well

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<v Speaker 1>on the six of two club talking about all the

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<v Speaker 1>franchises we love outside of Star Trek. But John, if

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<v Speaker 1>people wanted to talk about, like what you're reading next,

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<v Speaker 1>and maybe I don't know, maybe even get a hint

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<v Speaker 1>about what might be coming up here soon on aggressive negotiations.

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<v Speaker 1>Where could people find you?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, gosh, you can find me as Kessel Junkie on

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<v Speaker 2>your social network of choice. I'm most active on Goodreads

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<v Speaker 2>and Letterbox because books and movies are what I love.

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<v Speaker 2>And you can find me here on the network, co

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<v Speaker 2>hosting a show called house Lights with Tristan Radel and

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<v Speaker 2>Darren Moser, where I educate them on film technique, film process,

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<v Speaker 2>and film history. It's really a masterclass that I offer

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<v Speaker 2>to the two of them, because it's all about walking

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<v Speaker 2>them through so they understand what's happening. Very very difficult task,

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<v Speaker 2>but I'm pleased to do it.

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<v Speaker 1>Matt.

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<v Speaker 2>At this point, though, I realized that I did not

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<v Speaker 2>turn on the dehumidifier, so all of my books Back

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<v Speaker 2>of the Temple are starting to win built from the

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<v Speaker 2>humidity on Coruscant. So I think it's time to close

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<v Speaker 2>these negotiations.

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<v Speaker 1>John, negotiations are closed. Join the Revolution, Join the Nerd Party.