WEBVTT

1
00:00:00.360 --> 00:00:03.640
<v Speaker 1>Lucky Land Casino, asking people what's the weirdest place you've

2
00:00:03.640 --> 00:00:04.360
<v Speaker 1>gotten lucky?

3
00:00:04.679 --> 00:00:07.400
<v Speaker 2>Lucky in line at the Delhi I guess ah, in

4
00:00:07.480 --> 00:00:10.679
<v Speaker 2>my dentist's office more than once. Actually do I have

5
00:00:10.800 --> 00:00:11.119
<v Speaker 2>to say?

6
00:00:11.320 --> 00:00:11.800
<v Speaker 3>Yes? You do?

7
00:00:12.080 --> 00:00:14.519
<v Speaker 1>In the car before my kid's PTA meeting?

8
00:00:14.720 --> 00:00:15.119
<v Speaker 4>Really?

9
00:00:15.240 --> 00:00:15.480
<v Speaker 1>Yes?

10
00:00:15.880 --> 00:00:16.399
<v Speaker 3>Excuse me?

11
00:00:16.440 --> 00:00:18.160
<v Speaker 5>What's the weirdest place you've gotten lucky?

12
00:00:18.320 --> 00:00:20.920
<v Speaker 4>I never win? And tell well, there you have it.

13
00:00:20.960 --> 00:00:24.120
<v Speaker 1>You could get lucky anywhere playing at lucky landslots dot com.

14
00:00:24.160 --> 00:00:25.440
<v Speaker 5>Play for free right now?

15
00:00:25.600 --> 00:00:27.559
<v Speaker 3>Are you feeling lucky? No, we're just necessary foid.

16
00:00:27.640 --> 00:00:29.199
<v Speaker 1>We're gonna be my long eighteen plus terms conditions of

17
00:00:29.199 --> 00:00:30.079
<v Speaker 1>place he wants every day.

18
00:00:30.000 --> 00:00:35.000
<v Speaker 4>Else step into the world of power, loyalty and luck.

19
00:00:35.200 --> 00:00:37.679
<v Speaker 3>I'm gonna make him an offer you can't refuse.

20
00:00:37.719 --> 00:00:42.600
<v Speaker 4>With family, canoli's and spins mean everything? Now you want

21
00:00:42.600 --> 00:00:45.920
<v Speaker 4>to get mixed up in the family business, Introducing The

22
00:00:46.000 --> 00:00:50.119
<v Speaker 4>Godfather at champacasino dot com. Test your luck in the

23
00:00:50.200 --> 00:00:52.520
<v Speaker 4>shadowy world at the Godfather slot.

24
00:00:52.679 --> 00:00:55.520
<v Speaker 3>Someday I will call upon you to do a service

25
00:00:55.520 --> 00:00:55.799
<v Speaker 3>for me.

26
00:00:55.880 --> 00:00:58.719
<v Speaker 4>Play the Godfather now at champacasino dot com.

27
00:00:58.759 --> 00:01:01.039
<v Speaker 3>Welcome to the Family vdW group.

28
00:01:01.079 --> 00:01:02.880
<v Speaker 2>Noperch is necessary if we were privited by loss he

29
00:01:02.960 --> 00:01:05.079
<v Speaker 2>terms and conditions eighteen plus Love.

30
00:01:15.239 --> 00:01:18.680
<v Speaker 5>You are now listening to True Murder The Most Shocking

31
00:01:18.799 --> 00:01:21.799
<v Speaker 5>Killers in True Crime History and the authors that have

32
00:01:21.879 --> 00:01:29.159
<v Speaker 5>written about them Gasey, Bundy, Dahmer, The Nightstalker VTK. Every

33
00:01:29.200 --> 00:01:32.879
<v Speaker 5>week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and

34
00:01:33.000 --> 00:01:37.519
<v Speaker 5>infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with your host,

35
00:01:37.879 --> 00:01:50.680
<v Speaker 5>journalist and author Dan Zupansky. Good evening.

36
00:01:50.760 --> 00:01:54.000
<v Speaker 6>This is your host Dan Zupanski for the program True Murder,

37
00:01:54.359 --> 00:01:57.200
<v Speaker 6>The most Shocking Killers in True crime History and the

38
00:01:57.239 --> 00:02:01.280
<v Speaker 6>authors that have written about them. Dead just one week

39
00:02:01.319 --> 00:02:05.359
<v Speaker 6>into her Australian honeymoon, Tina Watson's body lay one hundred

40
00:02:05.359 --> 00:02:08.039
<v Speaker 6>feet below the ocean's surface at the foot of the

41
00:02:08.039 --> 00:02:12.879
<v Speaker 6>Great Barrier reef across the globe, three days into a

42
00:02:12.879 --> 00:02:16.560
<v Speaker 6>secret Erubian getaway with an older gentleman she met online,

43
00:02:18.080 --> 00:02:23.520
<v Speaker 6>Robin Gardner, vanished from the same town as Natalie Holloway,

44
00:02:23.879 --> 00:02:28.520
<v Speaker 6>who had had just five years earlier. Why did Robin

45
00:02:28.599 --> 00:02:33.000
<v Speaker 6>Gardner's travel companion purchase a one point five million dollar

46
00:02:33.080 --> 00:02:37.520
<v Speaker 6>insurance policy and make himself the beneficiary? Did Tina Watson's

47
00:02:37.599 --> 00:02:40.800
<v Speaker 6>husband really insist she increased her life insurance coverage to

48
00:02:40.879 --> 00:02:45.120
<v Speaker 6>one million before the wedding. When both suspects stories are

49
00:02:45.120 --> 00:02:50.639
<v Speaker 6>deemed suspicious, what does the evidence ultimately reveal? Mode of

50
00:02:50.680 --> 00:02:53.719
<v Speaker 6>an opportunity gave the media full opportunity to cast these

51
00:02:53.759 --> 00:02:58.400
<v Speaker 6>suspects as murderers. But what actually happened and what is

52
00:02:58.439 --> 00:03:01.800
<v Speaker 6>it about this pair of bizarre cases that remains brutally

53
00:03:01.879 --> 00:03:05.240
<v Speaker 6>chilling to this day. The book that we're featuring this

54
00:03:05.280 --> 00:03:10.280
<v Speaker 6>evening is Vanished Beauty Fatal Sunset with my special guest,

55
00:03:10.360 --> 00:03:15.719
<v Speaker 6>journalist and author Mark Yoshimoto nemkov Welcome to the program,

56
00:03:15.759 --> 00:03:20.960
<v Speaker 6>and thank you for agreeing to this interview. Mark Yoshimoto Nemkov.

57
00:03:21.719 --> 00:03:24.280
<v Speaker 2>Dan, thank you so much for having me on. It's

58
00:03:24.840 --> 00:03:27.800
<v Speaker 2>my pleasure. I love your show, by the way, Oh.

59
00:03:27.479 --> 00:03:29.560
<v Speaker 6>Well, thank you very much. And you fit right in

60
00:03:29.599 --> 00:03:32.639
<v Speaker 6>there with all the other denizens of the program here.

61
00:03:33.080 --> 00:03:35.520
<v Speaker 6>I think I think we're gonna have a great program

62
00:03:35.520 --> 00:03:40.840
<v Speaker 6>here because it's a wild, wild story. A question that

63
00:03:40.919 --> 00:03:43.919
<v Speaker 6>I often ask if, without giving too much away at all,

64
00:03:44.759 --> 00:03:47.759
<v Speaker 6>how is it that you came to write this story?

65
00:03:47.840 --> 00:03:51.639
<v Speaker 6>What was it about these two stories, about these two

66
00:03:51.680 --> 00:03:56.800
<v Speaker 6>cases that compelled you or drove you to decide to

67
00:03:56.800 --> 00:03:59.479
<v Speaker 6>write this book? Vanish beauty Fatal Sunset.

68
00:04:00.400 --> 00:04:04.560
<v Speaker 2>Well, last year I had written a book called Fatal

69
00:04:04.599 --> 00:04:08.159
<v Speaker 2>Sunset Deadly Vacations, which is really a compilation of a

70
00:04:08.240 --> 00:04:13.080
<v Speaker 2>number of different stories of people who you know, met

71
00:04:13.080 --> 00:04:17.439
<v Speaker 2>their demise during their vacation. I mean, obviously, you know,

72
00:04:17.480 --> 00:04:20.639
<v Speaker 2>it's kind of a kind of a bizarre topic. But

73
00:04:20.839 --> 00:04:23.800
<v Speaker 2>I was. I was on the island of Maui and

74
00:04:24.199 --> 00:04:26.720
<v Speaker 2>this guy who just happened to be there at the

75
00:04:26.759 --> 00:04:30.199
<v Speaker 2>same time, another tourist nine miles up the road, he

76
00:04:30.319 --> 00:04:33.959
<v Speaker 2>fell into a natural uh it's it's a thing. It's

77
00:04:34.000 --> 00:04:38.199
<v Speaker 2>called the Knochalley blowhole, which which sounds really dirty, but

78
00:04:38.199 --> 00:04:40.839
<v Speaker 2>it's really just like it's like a geyser that comes

79
00:04:40.920 --> 00:04:43.680
<v Speaker 2>up underneath this lava shell. And this guy fell in

80
00:04:43.720 --> 00:04:46.959
<v Speaker 2>and he vanished. And this happened while I was on

81
00:04:47.000 --> 00:04:48.800
<v Speaker 2>the island, and I was just I was. I was

82
00:04:49.079 --> 00:04:52.399
<v Speaker 2>terrified by the idea that he fell into this thing

83
00:04:52.480 --> 00:04:55.199
<v Speaker 2>and vanished and they never found him. And and I

84
00:04:55.240 --> 00:04:57.240
<v Speaker 2>started to write this book, and I started to write

85
00:04:57.279 --> 00:05:01.680
<v Speaker 2>about these stories, and I wrote about Natalie Holloway, and

86
00:05:02.360 --> 00:05:05.959
<v Speaker 2>I was just horrified at the Natalie Holloway story. How

87
00:05:06.040 --> 00:05:11.279
<v Speaker 2>this was a case that probably could have been solved

88
00:05:12.160 --> 00:05:15.519
<v Speaker 2>and it wasn't. And as I was working on a

89
00:05:15.519 --> 00:05:19.399
<v Speaker 2>sequel this year for Fatal Sunset Deadly Vacation, this one

90
00:05:19.439 --> 00:05:22.160
<v Speaker 2>that became Banished Beauty, I looked back at the Natalie

91
00:05:22.199 --> 00:05:25.079
<v Speaker 2>Holloway case and I noticed there was this Robin Gardner

92
00:05:25.160 --> 00:05:30.759
<v Speaker 2>case that was incredibly similar to the Natalie Holloway case. Now,

93
00:05:30.879 --> 00:05:34.560
<v Speaker 2>Nadalie Holloway was eighteen, she just graduated high school. Robin

94
00:05:34.600 --> 00:05:38.639
<v Speaker 2>Gardner was thirty six. But they were approximately the same height,

95
00:05:38.959 --> 00:05:42.120
<v Speaker 2>the same build, the same look, blonde hair, blue eyes,

96
00:05:42.600 --> 00:05:44.560
<v Speaker 2>and I thought it was very bizarre that they had

97
00:05:44.759 --> 00:05:49.120
<v Speaker 2>both disappeared under very mysterious circumstances from the same exact

98
00:05:49.639 --> 00:05:53.519
<v Speaker 2>Eruben resort. So I started to look into this case

99
00:05:54.360 --> 00:05:56.680
<v Speaker 2>and I realized there were a lot of aspects to

100
00:05:58.160 --> 00:06:01.480
<v Speaker 2>not just how she just heard the strangeness of just

101
00:06:01.680 --> 00:06:08.319
<v Speaker 2>another blonde American woman vanishing the from an Auruban beach,

102
00:06:09.439 --> 00:06:15.079
<v Speaker 2>but there were these elements to her story about the

103
00:06:15.360 --> 00:06:19.439
<v Speaker 2>people who were involved, just her traveling companions, and she

104
00:06:19.560 --> 00:06:22.360
<v Speaker 2>had met this guy. It was an older man she

105
00:06:22.439 --> 00:06:26.120
<v Speaker 2>met online and she took up this trip with him

106
00:06:26.279 --> 00:06:28.519
<v Speaker 2>that she didn't tell anybody about. She didn't tell her

107
00:06:28.519 --> 00:06:32.160
<v Speaker 2>family about, she didn't tell her boyfriend about, and she vanishes.

108
00:06:32.680 --> 00:06:35.199
<v Speaker 2>And as I dug into this story more and more

109
00:06:35.639 --> 00:06:39.360
<v Speaker 2>and I looked into this kind of shady character that

110
00:06:39.439 --> 00:06:43.399
<v Speaker 2>she went to Aruba with, I first felt like, Wow,

111
00:06:43.439 --> 00:06:49.680
<v Speaker 2>this is again another obviously open and shutcase. Why couldn't

112
00:06:49.720 --> 00:06:52.680
<v Speaker 2>they bring this case to trial? Why couldn't they solve

113
00:06:52.720 --> 00:06:56.519
<v Speaker 2>this case? As I dug more into the evidence and

114
00:06:57.000 --> 00:07:01.519
<v Speaker 2>really the public perception of what was going on, because

115
00:07:01.920 --> 00:07:05.800
<v Speaker 2>again with the shadow of Natalie Holloway's disappearance, how that

116
00:07:05.879 --> 00:07:11.680
<v Speaker 2>was a worldwide news sensation. There was this taint on

117
00:07:11.759 --> 00:07:15.920
<v Speaker 2>this Robin Gardner disappearance because everything that happened in the

118
00:07:16.000 --> 00:07:19.720
<v Speaker 2>Robin Gardner case was being held up to the incompetence

119
00:07:20.079 --> 00:07:24.040
<v Speaker 2>of the Natalie Holloway investigation. So I felt that there

120
00:07:24.079 --> 00:07:26.920
<v Speaker 2>was really more to this story than just a a

121
00:07:27.040 --> 00:07:31.360
<v Speaker 2>chapter in another book that was a compilation of several

122
00:07:31.399 --> 00:07:35.600
<v Speaker 2>different deadly vacation stories. And as I looked into it

123
00:07:35.680 --> 00:07:39.000
<v Speaker 2>more and more and deeper and deeper, and the characters

124
00:07:39.000 --> 00:07:43.839
<v Speaker 2>started to get weirder. And this guy that she went with,

125
00:07:43.920 --> 00:07:49.680
<v Speaker 2>who seemed like such an obvious villain, there were elements

126
00:07:49.680 --> 00:07:52.480
<v Speaker 2>to this that pulled me in because every time I

127
00:07:52.560 --> 00:07:57.560
<v Speaker 2>looked up something about Robin Gardner or her traveling companion,

128
00:07:57.600 --> 00:08:02.480
<v Speaker 2>this guy Gary Giordano, her boyfriend, I started to find

129
00:08:02.560 --> 00:08:05.480
<v Speaker 2>things in this story that just made my jaw drop.

130
00:08:05.600 --> 00:08:09.600
<v Speaker 2>This thing had so many twists and turns, and I

131
00:08:09.680 --> 00:08:12.079
<v Speaker 2>was I wondered to myself, how how do you write

132
00:08:12.120 --> 00:08:16.680
<v Speaker 2>this thing? How do you publicly indict someone who was

133
00:08:16.680 --> 00:08:20.199
<v Speaker 2>never really brought to trial for this crime because they

134
00:08:20.240 --> 00:08:23.879
<v Speaker 2>never They arrested Gary Giardano, but they released him four

135
00:08:23.920 --> 00:08:26.600
<v Speaker 2>months later because they couldn't build a case against him.

136
00:08:26.800 --> 00:08:28.519
<v Speaker 2>And I was like, I can build a I can

137
00:08:28.519 --> 00:08:30.560
<v Speaker 2>build a case against this guy. Let me do it.

138
00:08:31.360 --> 00:08:34.720
<v Speaker 6>Well, Mark, let's let's go back, like, let's go back

139
00:08:34.759 --> 00:08:37.200
<v Speaker 6>like you were able to do that, and you do

140
00:08:37.279 --> 00:08:42.360
<v Speaker 6>that in the book very very effectively. Let's let's go

141
00:08:42.440 --> 00:08:45.600
<v Speaker 6>back a little bit here before we talk about Gary

142
00:08:45.759 --> 00:08:50.440
<v Speaker 6>gi O'Donnell, because Richard Forrester is the boyfriend of Robin

143
00:08:50.759 --> 00:08:54.840
<v Speaker 6>Gardner and that's not her maiden name. So let's go

144
00:08:54.960 --> 00:08:58.360
<v Speaker 6>back just a little bit with Robin and just tell

145
00:08:58.399 --> 00:09:01.879
<v Speaker 6>who Robin is in terms of her we'll say her

146
00:09:02.360 --> 00:09:05.039
<v Speaker 6>history in terms of being married. Let's go back with

147
00:09:05.200 --> 00:09:09.639
<v Speaker 6>a little bit into Robin's life before we introduced Richard Forrester,

148
00:09:10.320 --> 00:09:12.720
<v Speaker 6>and well before we get into Gary Jerio Danel, so

149
00:09:12.759 --> 00:09:15.200
<v Speaker 6>we can paint the picture and introduce these characters.

150
00:09:15.759 --> 00:09:19.080
<v Speaker 2>Okay, Well, Robin Gardner was kind of a hometown girl,

151
00:09:19.200 --> 00:09:23.159
<v Speaker 2>grew up outside of Washington, DC, and she had been

152
00:09:23.200 --> 00:09:27.320
<v Speaker 2>married before. She married a guy who was a real

153
00:09:27.480 --> 00:09:32.279
<v Speaker 2>estate He was a senior executive at one of these

154
00:09:32.279 --> 00:09:36.799
<v Speaker 2>companies that goes and builds a big housing developments. Right,

155
00:09:36.919 --> 00:09:40.879
<v Speaker 2>And of course, the recession hit and crushed the construction industry,

156
00:09:41.159 --> 00:09:44.000
<v Speaker 2>and this guy loses his job and their marriage falls apart.

157
00:09:44.480 --> 00:09:46.840
<v Speaker 6>But they were doing, they were doing. They were living

158
00:09:46.840 --> 00:09:50.679
<v Speaker 6>a pretty lavish lifestyle. Mercedes Benz in the driveway, and

159
00:09:50.720 --> 00:09:54.840
<v Speaker 6>so let's not leave that out. She did get a

160
00:09:54.960 --> 00:09:57.759
<v Speaker 6>taste for the high life and the good life, right.

161
00:09:58.080 --> 00:10:01.080
<v Speaker 2>That's right. She was definitely living an a very upper

162
00:10:01.120 --> 00:10:06.360
<v Speaker 2>middle class almost like a dream life for a young

163
00:10:06.480 --> 00:10:10.240
<v Speaker 2>lady who wants these types of things. And so here

164
00:10:10.320 --> 00:10:14.120
<v Speaker 2>she was, and she was divorced from her husband and

165
00:10:14.200 --> 00:10:19.480
<v Speaker 2>facing a very very contentious alimony battle with her husband,

166
00:10:19.519 --> 00:10:22.600
<v Speaker 2>who was unemployed, who couldn't find a job. Afterwards, tried

167
00:10:22.600 --> 00:10:25.360
<v Speaker 2>to start his own business building houses, and that didn't

168
00:10:25.440 --> 00:10:28.879
<v Speaker 2>take off, And then she was working as a dental

169
00:10:28.919 --> 00:10:32.279
<v Speaker 2>assistant and also trying at the same time, she was

170
00:10:32.320 --> 00:10:37.360
<v Speaker 2>a very attractive woman. Thirty six, she's trying to kickstart

171
00:10:37.360 --> 00:10:40.440
<v Speaker 2>a modeling career. Now, now thirty six is not the

172
00:10:40.519 --> 00:10:44.559
<v Speaker 2>agent which one starts a modeling career. No, it's about

173
00:10:44.600 --> 00:10:48.720
<v Speaker 2>twenty two years late for starting a modeling career, right,

174
00:10:49.440 --> 00:10:53.000
<v Speaker 2>And so here she was and there was this almost

175
00:10:53.879 --> 00:10:56.360
<v Speaker 2>you'd almost feel like there was a sense of desperation

176
00:10:56.480 --> 00:10:59.639
<v Speaker 2>in her life because she was with this guy, Richard

177
00:10:59.679 --> 00:11:03.519
<v Speaker 2>forrest Or, who she also met online, and they were together,

178
00:11:04.559 --> 00:11:08.600
<v Speaker 2>but things weren't exactly rosy between them. So here she was,

179
00:11:08.679 --> 00:11:13.240
<v Speaker 2>and there are aspects of Robin's life that just that

180
00:11:13.360 --> 00:11:16.519
<v Speaker 2>make her seem like she's she could be anyone. But

181
00:11:16.639 --> 00:11:21.080
<v Speaker 2>then there were secrets that she kept that were really

182
00:11:21.519 --> 00:11:25.039
<v Speaker 2>that really kind of painted a much different picture about

183
00:11:25.080 --> 00:11:30.360
<v Speaker 2>her as the story developed. Right, So she was definitely

184
00:11:30.399 --> 00:11:35.399
<v Speaker 2>someone who who who liked to uh ah, how should

185
00:11:35.399 --> 00:11:38.039
<v Speaker 2>I say it? She liked to have fun and she

186
00:11:38.200 --> 00:11:40.679
<v Speaker 2>liked to keep secrets, which is one of the reasons

187
00:11:40.720 --> 00:11:45.120
<v Speaker 2>why when she had this friend, Gary Giordano, who she

188
00:11:45.240 --> 00:11:51.000
<v Speaker 2>met online as well through a swinger website, that she

189
00:11:51.120 --> 00:11:54.600
<v Speaker 2>didn't tell her boyfriend about it. All her boyfriend knew

190
00:11:54.639 --> 00:11:57.720
<v Speaker 2>about this guy, Gary Giordano, was he was a friend,

191
00:11:58.000 --> 00:12:01.039
<v Speaker 2>just a platonic friend. That's all she told him. But

192
00:12:01.120 --> 00:12:02.720
<v Speaker 2>it wasn't the truth, not at all.

193
00:12:05.120 --> 00:12:08.480
<v Speaker 6>Now they do have a relationship, and you say it's rocky,

194
00:12:08.559 --> 00:12:12.639
<v Speaker 6>But what is the basis of the problem. It's what

195
00:12:13.120 --> 00:12:15.840
<v Speaker 6>seems to be. They just don't click what is the

196
00:12:15.879 --> 00:12:19.799
<v Speaker 6>deal here? And this is important because on the last

197
00:12:20.240 --> 00:12:22.799
<v Speaker 6>few days of her life, or at least before she

198
00:12:22.919 --> 00:12:25.840
<v Speaker 6>disappears from the face of the earth, there are some

199
00:12:25.960 --> 00:12:28.639
<v Speaker 6>messages for Richard Forrester. So just before we get into

200
00:12:29.240 --> 00:12:33.279
<v Speaker 6>that eventful day, let's talk about a little bit about

201
00:12:33.279 --> 00:12:35.720
<v Speaker 6>the relationship. What exactly did you say was the problem

202
00:12:35.720 --> 00:12:39.240
<v Speaker 6>in the relationship? What did you think or what were

203
00:12:39.279 --> 00:12:42.480
<v Speaker 6>witnesses at that time, or what was Richard's viewpoint on

204
00:12:42.679 --> 00:12:44.759
<v Speaker 6>what was the problem with the relationship?

205
00:12:45.919 --> 00:12:50.759
<v Speaker 2>Well, Richard Forrester had also been married before, and he

206
00:12:50.879 --> 00:12:56.279
<v Speaker 2>had a very expensive divorce. He had divorced his first

207
00:12:56.279 --> 00:13:01.519
<v Speaker 2>wife and she was dragging him through the coals for everything,

208
00:13:01.720 --> 00:13:05.120
<v Speaker 2>and rightly so, because he refused to pay alimony, he

209
00:13:05.200 --> 00:13:08.600
<v Speaker 2>refused to pay child support. So he was hit with

210
00:13:08.799 --> 00:13:14.639
<v Speaker 2>a massive judgment, a massive, massive judgment. And here was

211
00:13:14.759 --> 00:13:17.799
<v Speaker 2>Richard Forrester, and they he had been together with Robin,

212
00:13:17.960 --> 00:13:22.519
<v Speaker 2>and he had his baggage and she had her baggage.

213
00:13:22.759 --> 00:13:26.679
<v Speaker 2>And at some point after she had lost her job

214
00:13:26.960 --> 00:13:32.440
<v Speaker 2>as a dental assistant. Maybe it was the financial aspects

215
00:13:32.440 --> 00:13:36.679
<v Speaker 2>of her trying to battle her ex husband for alimony

216
00:13:37.000 --> 00:13:41.559
<v Speaker 2>and Richard trying to come up with all this cash

217
00:13:41.799 --> 00:13:45.120
<v Speaker 2>in order to fulfill this massive judgment that he had

218
00:13:45.159 --> 00:13:49.320
<v Speaker 2>to pay. So money is money issues are never a

219
00:13:49.360 --> 00:13:52.320
<v Speaker 2>good thing for a relationship. But it seemed like their

220
00:13:52.360 --> 00:13:56.799
<v Speaker 2>relationship had maybe run its course. And even though they

221
00:13:57.919 --> 00:14:01.080
<v Speaker 2>didn't live together, they had separate apart up and he

222
00:14:01.240 --> 00:14:04.480
<v Speaker 2>claims she she would spend six nights a week at

223
00:14:04.480 --> 00:14:07.879
<v Speaker 2>his place, but she still maintained her own apartment, and

224
00:14:08.000 --> 00:14:12.480
<v Speaker 2>her roommate at the time claimed that, you know, not

225
00:14:12.559 --> 00:14:16.399
<v Speaker 2>everything was really rosy because she she did she was

226
00:14:16.519 --> 00:14:20.320
<v Speaker 2>kind of I think she she liked Richard, but she

227
00:14:20.360 --> 00:14:25.440
<v Speaker 2>always had her eye open for other opportunities. And when

228
00:14:25.799 --> 00:14:30.879
<v Speaker 2>Gary Giardano showed up and offered her a trip to Aruba.

229
00:14:32.639 --> 00:14:37.919
<v Speaker 2>Here was a guy who had a history of larceny,

230
00:14:38.759 --> 00:14:44.720
<v Speaker 2>a history of lying a history of harassing his previous girlfriends,

231
00:14:44.840 --> 00:14:47.639
<v Speaker 2>of being being a bully, and of lying that to

232
00:14:47.840 --> 00:14:53.440
<v Speaker 2>women that he was a modeling agent, that he was

233
00:14:53.440 --> 00:14:57.960
<v Speaker 2>a manager that booked modeling gigs. So here she is

234
00:14:58.639 --> 00:15:03.320
<v Speaker 2>probably not in the best time during her life, and

235
00:15:03.919 --> 00:15:09.559
<v Speaker 2>this friend, who she obviously knows is interested in her,

236
00:15:09.679 --> 00:15:14.720
<v Speaker 2>has propositioned her before says hey, I'll take you to Aruba.

237
00:15:14.799 --> 00:15:16.600
<v Speaker 2>Come with me and let's get away from it all.

238
00:15:18.519 --> 00:15:21.000
<v Speaker 2>And so she did, and she never came back.

239
00:15:21.799 --> 00:15:25.360
<v Speaker 6>Now let's get to the let's go backwards just a

240
00:15:25.360 --> 00:15:30.960
<v Speaker 6>little bit and talk about Richard. Forrester, we already set

241
00:15:31.000 --> 00:15:34.039
<v Speaker 6>the stage that this relationship is not so good. So

242
00:15:36.759 --> 00:15:41.879
<v Speaker 6>they are not together one day and set the stage

243
00:15:41.879 --> 00:15:45.240
<v Speaker 6>for that day that he gets I wasn't clear whether

244
00:15:45.279 --> 00:15:47.279
<v Speaker 6>he had he got the phone call or he was

245
00:15:47.360 --> 00:15:51.360
<v Speaker 6>listening to a message from a phone call that she made.

246
00:15:51.399 --> 00:15:57.360
<v Speaker 6>And then talk about that day and the phone call

247
00:15:57.480 --> 00:15:59.799
<v Speaker 6>or the message of the phone call that he listened

248
00:15:59.799 --> 00:16:01.960
<v Speaker 6>to and his deduction from there.

249
00:16:02.679 --> 00:16:05.600
<v Speaker 2>Well, they they had been in a fight. They things

250
00:16:05.639 --> 00:16:10.000
<v Speaker 2>hadn't been so good, and according to Robin's roommate, she

251
00:16:10.200 --> 00:16:14.679
<v Speaker 2>was about to break up with him, and he claims

252
00:16:14.799 --> 00:16:18.519
<v Speaker 2>that He got a phone call from her a couple

253
00:16:18.679 --> 00:16:21.440
<v Speaker 2>days after the last time he had seen her, and

254
00:16:21.720 --> 00:16:26.360
<v Speaker 2>the phone call sounded it sounded strange. There was noise

255
00:16:26.399 --> 00:16:29.240
<v Speaker 2>on the line, there was beeping on the line. It

256
00:16:29.320 --> 00:16:32.559
<v Speaker 2>was an internationally placed phone call. And he didn't know

257
00:16:32.600 --> 00:16:35.200
<v Speaker 2>that because she told him that she was in Orlando

258
00:16:35.320 --> 00:16:38.360
<v Speaker 2>with her family they were taking They took a last

259
00:16:38.399 --> 00:16:42.320
<v Speaker 2>minute trip to Orlando, and she was like, look, I

260
00:16:42.600 --> 00:16:48.399
<v Speaker 2>can't talk, but we'll talk when I get back, and

261
00:16:48.559 --> 00:16:52.120
<v Speaker 2>you know, i'll call you soon, and so he didn't

262
00:16:52.159 --> 00:16:55.480
<v Speaker 2>even realize that she was out of the country. He

263
00:16:55.879 --> 00:16:59.200
<v Speaker 2>tried to message her on Facebook and she replied. They

264
00:16:59.240 --> 00:17:03.120
<v Speaker 2>never had any other direct conversation after that, but they

265
00:17:03.159 --> 00:17:07.920
<v Speaker 2>had you know, Facebook messages back and forth, and they

266
00:17:07.920 --> 00:17:11.400
<v Speaker 2>were all kind of like, look, well, I care about you, Richard,

267
00:17:11.480 --> 00:17:15.960
<v Speaker 2>and we'll talk when I get back. And so here

268
00:17:16.039 --> 00:17:20.319
<v Speaker 2>was this boyfriend who didn't even realize that maybe he

269
00:17:20.440 --> 00:17:22.599
<v Speaker 2>was being broken up with. I mean, he had been

270
00:17:22.640 --> 00:17:27.079
<v Speaker 2>blindsided by this whole thing, apparently, And so he's trying

271
00:17:27.079 --> 00:17:30.640
<v Speaker 2>to get in touch with her desperately and she's responding

272
00:17:30.799 --> 00:17:35.720
<v Speaker 2>very cryptically on Facebook, and so it's it's.

273
00:17:36.240 --> 00:17:40.200
<v Speaker 5>Okay, round two. Name something that's not boring.

274
00:17:40.480 --> 00:17:44.680
<v Speaker 4>Laundry a book club, computer solitaire.

275
00:17:44.839 --> 00:17:51.599
<v Speaker 1>Huh oh, sorry, we were looking for Chumbuck Casino to Chumba.

276
00:17:51.880 --> 00:17:54.759
<v Speaker 1>That's right, Chumbuckcasino dot Com as over one hundred casino

277
00:17:54.759 --> 00:17:57.119
<v Speaker 1>style games joined today and playing for free for your

278
00:17:57.200 --> 00:18:02.400
<v Speaker 1>chance to redeem some serious prizes. Chum Chumpa Casino dot Com.

279
00:18:03.079 --> 00:18:04.319
<v Speaker 6>Overated eighty plus trs.

280
00:18:04.319 --> 00:18:05.599
<v Speaker 1>Conditions of plus west I retails.

281
00:18:05.799 --> 00:18:10.279
<v Speaker 4>Step into the world of power, loyalty, and luck.

282
00:18:10.480 --> 00:18:12.920
<v Speaker 3>I'm going to make him an offer he can't refuse.

283
00:18:13.000 --> 00:18:17.039
<v Speaker 4>With family, canoli's and spins mean everything.

284
00:18:17.160 --> 00:18:19.920
<v Speaker 3>Now you want to get mixed up in the family business.

285
00:18:19.960 --> 00:18:24.880
<v Speaker 4>Introducing the Godfather at Champa Casino dot Com. Test your

286
00:18:24.920 --> 00:18:27.720
<v Speaker 4>luck in the shadowy world at the Godfather Slough.

287
00:18:27.960 --> 00:18:30.759
<v Speaker 3>Someday I will call upon you to do a service

288
00:18:30.799 --> 00:18:31.039
<v Speaker 3>for me.

289
00:18:31.160 --> 00:18:34.480
<v Speaker 4>Play the Godfather now at Champa Casino dot Com. Welcome

290
00:18:34.599 --> 00:18:36.359
<v Speaker 4>to the Family vdW group.

291
00:18:36.400 --> 00:18:37.119
<v Speaker 2>No purchase necessary.

292
00:18:37.119 --> 00:18:38.880
<v Speaker 3>I believe we're pribited by loss. He terms and conditions

293
00:18:38.880 --> 00:18:39.440
<v Speaker 3>eighteen plus.

294
00:18:39.440 --> 00:18:44.160
<v Speaker 2>It wasn't until uh the he because she found out.

295
00:18:44.200 --> 00:18:47.000
<v Speaker 2>He found out because she admitted, well, she was like,

296
00:18:47.039 --> 00:18:52.039
<v Speaker 2>look I went to Aruba. It's it's uh. I'll be

297
00:18:52.160 --> 00:18:53.960
<v Speaker 2>back soon. Don't worry about it. I'll be back at

298
00:18:53.960 --> 00:18:56.200
<v Speaker 2>the end of the week. And he didn't even find

299
00:18:56.240 --> 00:18:59.200
<v Speaker 2>out until the day after she was supposed to return

300
00:19:00.160 --> 00:19:04.720
<v Speaker 2>something had happened to her three days earlier, or two

301
00:19:04.759 --> 00:19:05.759
<v Speaker 2>days earlier, as a matter.

302
00:19:05.599 --> 00:19:11.839
<v Speaker 6>Of fact, so he has limited contact with her. He

303
00:19:11.960 --> 00:19:15.319
<v Speaker 6>gets this phone call and again she says, I can't talk,

304
00:19:15.359 --> 00:19:17.480
<v Speaker 6>but we'll talk soon. Then she gets the email I

305
00:19:17.519 --> 00:19:20.039
<v Speaker 6>love you, I care about you. Yeah, it does sound

306
00:19:20.119 --> 00:19:22.160
<v Speaker 6>like kind of like but we're going to have to

307
00:19:22.160 --> 00:19:24.240
<v Speaker 6>break up kind of deal. But we'll discuss it when

308
00:19:24.279 --> 00:19:27.640
<v Speaker 6>I get back. What is the last message that he

309
00:19:27.759 --> 00:19:29.920
<v Speaker 6>does receive and what day is that?

310
00:19:31.680 --> 00:19:36.599
<v Speaker 2>The last message was a Facebook message and this was

311
00:19:36.680 --> 00:19:40.319
<v Speaker 2>the day before that she had vanished. She vanished on

312
00:19:40.359 --> 00:19:43.599
<v Speaker 2>a Wednesday. It was Tuesday, and he had been trying

313
00:19:43.640 --> 00:19:46.839
<v Speaker 2>to call her, trying to message her, trying to email her,

314
00:19:47.279 --> 00:19:51.319
<v Speaker 2>and it was it was obvious, I think, you know,

315
00:19:51.559 --> 00:19:53.920
<v Speaker 2>maybe to him that there were there were bigger problems

316
00:19:53.960 --> 00:19:57.519
<v Speaker 2>in this relationship than he had first thought. And so

317
00:19:57.720 --> 00:20:01.440
<v Speaker 2>he was, you know, he didn't like the idea of

318
00:20:01.519 --> 00:20:03.079
<v Speaker 2>not being able to get in touch with her, so

319
00:20:03.119 --> 00:20:05.680
<v Speaker 2>he kept trying to get in touch with her. And

320
00:20:05.880 --> 00:20:09.480
<v Speaker 2>the last, the last Facebook message was it was it

321
00:20:09.559 --> 00:20:12.400
<v Speaker 2>was really like, you know, I uh thinking about you

322
00:20:12.799 --> 00:20:18.839
<v Speaker 2>will we'll talk soon. And after that, what was bizarre

323
00:20:19.079 --> 00:20:24.880
<v Speaker 2>was he had seen her on Gmail, on his Gmail account,

324
00:20:24.920 --> 00:20:29.319
<v Speaker 2>he had seen her indicator her uh come on, and

325
00:20:29.599 --> 00:20:32.440
<v Speaker 2>you know, if you're familiar with Gmail chat, when someone

326
00:20:32.480 --> 00:20:36.359
<v Speaker 2>who is one of your chat friends comes online and

327
00:20:36.400 --> 00:20:40.440
<v Speaker 2>they want to be seen in chat, their little indicator

328
00:20:40.480 --> 00:20:42.519
<v Speaker 2>goes green. Well, he says, well, you know, I saw

329
00:20:42.559 --> 00:20:45.119
<v Speaker 2>her indicator go green, and I tried to message her

330
00:20:45.640 --> 00:20:49.319
<v Speaker 2>and she didn't respond to me. And he found out

331
00:20:49.759 --> 00:20:53.119
<v Speaker 2>later on after he discovered that she had been missing,

332
00:20:53.759 --> 00:20:59.720
<v Speaker 2>that her indicator had gone green after she had disappeared.

333
00:21:00.839 --> 00:21:05.079
<v Speaker 2>So here again, he wasn't sure what was going on.

334
00:21:05.160 --> 00:21:08.960
<v Speaker 2>He wasn't sure who was on her account or what

335
00:21:09.160 --> 00:21:13.559
<v Speaker 2>was you know, how was she being manipulated? And the

336
00:21:13.599 --> 00:21:19.079
<v Speaker 2>only and the only person who knew what Robin Gardner

337
00:21:19.160 --> 00:21:23.119
<v Speaker 2>was up to was this guy she was with, Gary Giordano.

338
00:21:25.839 --> 00:21:30.720
<v Speaker 6>Now what happens with who calls police? And when do

339
00:21:30.759 --> 00:21:33.160
<v Speaker 6>they call police? She's supposed to be back on Thursday,

340
00:21:34.160 --> 00:21:37.160
<v Speaker 6>and of course there's no show. So and then Friday

341
00:21:37.960 --> 00:21:42.200
<v Speaker 6>Andrew Colson, which is Robin's brother called to say that

342
00:21:42.759 --> 00:21:46.680
<v Speaker 6>Robin's mother had said that Robin was missing at sea.

343
00:21:46.960 --> 00:21:49.559
<v Speaker 6>Tell us about this phone call and what was said,

344
00:21:49.759 --> 00:21:54.480
<v Speaker 6>and Forrester's reaction, Well.

345
00:21:54.319 --> 00:21:59.839
<v Speaker 2>What happened was that Robin's mother had gotten a phone

346
00:21:59.880 --> 00:22:06.000
<v Speaker 2>call from authorities and you know, informing her that, uh,

347
00:22:06.200 --> 00:22:10.640
<v Speaker 2>you know, we your daughter h is missing. And she

348
00:22:11.200 --> 00:22:16.119
<v Speaker 2>went uh snorkeling with her travel companion and she didn't

349
00:22:16.319 --> 00:22:20.559
<v Speaker 2>come back to shore. She vanished. And so of course

350
00:22:20.640 --> 00:22:24.480
<v Speaker 2>this is this is all news to the Colson family and.

351
00:22:26.480 --> 00:22:29.279
<v Speaker 6>Sorry for snorkeling or scuba diving or anything.

352
00:22:29.559 --> 00:22:32.440
<v Speaker 2>Well, that was the thing that that most of the

353
00:22:32.440 --> 00:22:36.039
<v Speaker 2>people who knew her found to be suspicious, because Robin

354
00:22:36.119 --> 00:22:39.079
<v Speaker 2>Gardner was someone who liked to wear a lot of

355
00:22:39.200 --> 00:22:43.680
<v Speaker 2>makeup and liked her hair done nice, and and she

356
00:22:43.880 --> 00:22:47.960
<v Speaker 2>wore hair extensions. And she wasn't known as the kind

357
00:22:48.000 --> 00:22:52.440
<v Speaker 2>of adventurous girl to to uh strap on a pair

358
00:22:52.480 --> 00:22:54.079
<v Speaker 2>of fins and go snorkeling.

359
00:22:54.559 --> 00:22:54.759
<v Speaker 3>You know.

360
00:22:54.839 --> 00:22:56.839
<v Speaker 2>She was the kind of girl who would have a

361
00:22:56.920 --> 00:23:00.880
<v Speaker 2>few cocktails by the pool. Yeah, And so it seemed

362
00:23:01.000 --> 00:23:05.039
<v Speaker 2>very suspicious to everyone. All of a sudden Robin went snorkeling.

363
00:23:05.079 --> 00:23:09.880
<v Speaker 2>How did this happen, She doesn't Snorkel and the only person. Again,

364
00:23:10.079 --> 00:23:15.759
<v Speaker 2>like the authorities were right away, the authorities had started

365
00:23:15.799 --> 00:23:18.279
<v Speaker 2>to look at this guy, Gary Giordano. They started to

366
00:23:18.880 --> 00:23:22.839
<v Speaker 2>you know, they initiated a search, an island wide search

367
00:23:23.119 --> 00:23:29.680
<v Speaker 2>of Robin, coast guard, boades, helicopters, and this is this

368
00:23:29.799 --> 00:23:34.839
<v Speaker 2>all of a sudden, you know, becomes a frantic search

369
00:23:35.200 --> 00:23:39.720
<v Speaker 2>for a missing person. And her family is informed of this,

370
00:23:40.920 --> 00:23:46.000
<v Speaker 2>you know, almost almost twelve to eighteen hours after the fact.

371
00:23:46.799 --> 00:23:51.359
<v Speaker 6>What does Geordano claim when he tells police or what

372
00:23:51.480 --> 00:23:55.279
<v Speaker 6>is geored Dano's reaction, Because this is the thing that's amazing.

373
00:23:55.599 --> 00:23:59.839
<v Speaker 6>What does Geordano do and say and how you know,

374
00:24:00.160 --> 00:24:05.640
<v Speaker 6>give us the timeline here of what he does and

375
00:24:05.680 --> 00:24:07.599
<v Speaker 6>then what does he say happened?

376
00:24:08.119 --> 00:24:08.799
<v Speaker 5>And who does he.

377
00:24:08.799 --> 00:24:09.279
<v Speaker 6>Say that to?

378
00:24:10.039 --> 00:24:14.680
<v Speaker 2>Well, according to Gary Giardano, and according to eyewitness accounts,

379
00:24:15.599 --> 00:24:20.640
<v Speaker 2>Gary and Robin had been drinking at the hotel they

380
00:24:20.759 --> 00:24:22.720
<v Speaker 2>went and they stayed at the Marriotte. They were in

381
00:24:22.799 --> 00:24:26.640
<v Speaker 2>the same room together and they were drinking and then

382
00:24:26.680 --> 00:24:30.720
<v Speaker 2>they went out for you know, lunch at a little bar,

383
00:24:31.759 --> 00:24:34.519
<v Speaker 2>and so they were seen at the bar. There was

384
00:24:34.559 --> 00:24:37.400
<v Speaker 2>actually pictures taken of them. The pictures where you can

385
00:24:37.440 --> 00:24:40.000
<v Speaker 2>see them. And so there's evidence that they were there

386
00:24:40.000 --> 00:24:42.319
<v Speaker 2>at this bar at about two o'clock or so, and

387
00:24:42.359 --> 00:24:44.920
<v Speaker 2>that she was drinking and he was drinking, and she

388
00:24:44.960 --> 00:24:48.920
<v Speaker 2>didn't really touch her food. And so then he claims

389
00:24:49.000 --> 00:24:53.039
<v Speaker 2>that they later on, just a few hours later, they

390
00:24:53.680 --> 00:24:56.559
<v Speaker 2>were just hanging out and he said, let's go snorkeling.

391
00:24:56.880 --> 00:25:00.759
<v Speaker 2>They went in the water. They're kicking or round off

392
00:25:00.759 --> 00:25:05.039
<v Speaker 2>the shore, and all of a sudden, Gary claims that

393
00:25:05.039 --> 00:25:08.920
<v Speaker 2>that the current got stronger and started to pull him out,

394
00:25:09.400 --> 00:25:11.680
<v Speaker 2>and he motioned to her. He said to her, he

395
00:25:11.720 --> 00:25:14.079
<v Speaker 2>tapped her on the foot and motioned, look, let's go in.

396
00:25:14.240 --> 00:25:16.480
<v Speaker 2>Hurry up. You know, I'm I think we might be

397
00:25:17.599 --> 00:25:20.599
<v Speaker 2>in trouble here. So he claims he started to swim

398
00:25:20.640 --> 00:25:23.039
<v Speaker 2>for his life towards the shore and by the time

399
00:25:23.079 --> 00:25:27.839
<v Speaker 2>he got close enough, he turned around and Robin was gone.

400
00:25:28.039 --> 00:25:33.880
<v Speaker 2>And so at approximately five o'clock late afternoon, early evening,

401
00:25:34.559 --> 00:25:38.480
<v Speaker 2>he emerges from the water by himself, and he goes

402
00:25:38.519 --> 00:25:40.680
<v Speaker 2>back to the bar, because they were snorkeling very close

403
00:25:40.680 --> 00:25:42.640
<v Speaker 2>to this bar, and he goes back to the bar

404
00:25:42.720 --> 00:25:45.200
<v Speaker 2>and he knocks on the window on the door and

405
00:25:45.200 --> 00:25:49.880
<v Speaker 2>there's no answer. And he goes around to the kitchen

406
00:25:50.359 --> 00:25:54.599
<v Speaker 2>and finally is able to have somebody call the police,

407
00:25:54.599 --> 00:25:59.000
<v Speaker 2>and the police come and all of a sudden, they're like, well,

408
00:25:59.160 --> 00:26:01.720
<v Speaker 2>what how did this happen? How did how did you

409
00:26:01.720 --> 00:26:04.279
<v Speaker 2>guys go circling and she didn't come back? And why

410
00:26:04.359 --> 00:26:07.160
<v Speaker 2>is there blood here on the beach? And uh, you know,

411
00:26:07.240 --> 00:26:10.480
<v Speaker 2>why why are you still wearing your twope? And it's

412
00:26:10.559 --> 00:26:13.000
<v Speaker 2>really I mean, there was there was a lot of

413
00:26:13.039 --> 00:26:18.920
<v Speaker 2>suspicion placed on Gary Giordano, very very quickly, but there

414
00:26:18.960 --> 00:26:21.680
<v Speaker 2>was no evidence. There was no evidence to be found.

415
00:26:22.200 --> 00:26:24.400
<v Speaker 2>There was no evidence that he had done anything wrong.

416
00:26:25.400 --> 00:26:28.240
<v Speaker 6>Well, you know the thing is, though, pardon excuse you,

417
00:26:28.400 --> 00:26:33.240
<v Speaker 6>excuse me, they did find almost immediately a bloody palm,

418
00:26:33.319 --> 00:26:36.000
<v Speaker 6>and then you don't say whether that was ever identified.

419
00:26:36.400 --> 00:26:39.519
<v Speaker 6>But there's a bloody pom print in an unused condom

420
00:26:39.559 --> 00:26:41.880
<v Speaker 6>and that's right behind the rum reef bar and grill.

421
00:26:43.319 --> 00:26:43.440
<v Speaker 4>Uh.

422
00:26:43.599 --> 00:26:47.400
<v Speaker 6>That's what happens early on right the right.

423
00:26:47.319 --> 00:26:54.960
<v Speaker 2>And according to eyewitnesses who came forth later, Robin had

424
00:26:55.079 --> 00:27:00.160
<v Speaker 2>apparently cut her foot on the Rocky beach and a

425
00:27:00.160 --> 00:27:02.279
<v Speaker 2>lot of people, a lot of people were suspicious of

426
00:27:02.279 --> 00:27:04.480
<v Speaker 2>the fact that they had gone snorkeling off of this

427
00:27:04.599 --> 00:27:09.039
<v Speaker 2>little beach behind this bar, because here was this, you know,

428
00:27:09.079 --> 00:27:12.160
<v Speaker 2>not very sandy, not very pleasurable beach. It was kind

429
00:27:12.200 --> 00:27:15.400
<v Speaker 2>of rocky. She cut her foot, so she was seen

430
00:27:16.000 --> 00:27:19.000
<v Speaker 2>having cut her foot. People saw her on the beach,

431
00:27:20.119 --> 00:27:22.559
<v Speaker 2>so but they did. They were never able to match

432
00:27:22.960 --> 00:27:26.160
<v Speaker 2>whether or not that was her blood. They were never

433
00:27:26.200 --> 00:27:29.480
<v Speaker 2>able to match whether or not it was that condom

434
00:27:29.599 --> 00:27:35.160
<v Speaker 2>had any sort of DNA that would link them to

435
00:27:35.160 --> 00:27:39.799
<v Speaker 2>to either Gary or Robin. And this was and many

436
00:27:39.839 --> 00:27:42.759
<v Speaker 2>people blamed the fact that here is Aruba, this is

437
00:27:42.799 --> 00:27:48.039
<v Speaker 2>a very very small island community where the closest crime

438
00:27:48.119 --> 00:27:53.359
<v Speaker 2>lab is another island away in Cursow. So it's this

439
00:27:53.519 --> 00:27:57.359
<v Speaker 2>is a very sleepy town and all of a sudden

440
00:27:57.359 --> 00:28:00.799
<v Speaker 2>they have to perform CSI here. It's it's not gonna

441
00:28:00.799 --> 00:28:02.119
<v Speaker 2>happen now.

442
00:28:02.400 --> 00:28:06.119
<v Speaker 6>And Robin, Robin's mother actually travels to Aruba to try

443
00:28:06.160 --> 00:28:07.720
<v Speaker 6>to find her missing daughter, doesn't.

444
00:28:07.480 --> 00:28:11.880
<v Speaker 2>She right away. Robin's mother goes and she confronts this guy,

445
00:28:11.960 --> 00:28:16.119
<v Speaker 2>Gary Giordano, and she described him as being very calm

446
00:28:16.559 --> 00:28:21.440
<v Speaker 2>and not very concerned with the fact that here was

447
00:28:21.519 --> 00:28:25.079
<v Speaker 2>somebody that he was with who he you know, he

448
00:28:25.079 --> 00:28:29.480
<v Speaker 2>would he introduced Robin to the waiter at the restaurant

449
00:28:29.480 --> 00:28:33.359
<v Speaker 2>as his wife, you know, maybe half jokingly, but all

450
00:28:33.359 --> 00:28:35.480
<v Speaker 2>of a sudden, you know, here's somebody he was with,

451
00:28:35.559 --> 00:28:37.559
<v Speaker 2>and he told Robin, oh how much he cared about

452
00:28:37.559 --> 00:28:40.160
<v Speaker 2>her and all that. But he just seemed very blase

453
00:28:40.319 --> 00:28:43.359
<v Speaker 2>about it. It was almost as if he had lost,

454
00:28:44.200 --> 00:28:46.799
<v Speaker 2>you know, a frisbee or you know, a pair of

455
00:28:46.880 --> 00:28:51.039
<v Speaker 2>a pair of sneakers, and so that that again seemed

456
00:28:51.240 --> 00:28:56.400
<v Speaker 2>very suspicious. And what as Gary is stuck here on

457
00:28:56.680 --> 00:29:02.160
<v Speaker 2>Aruba watching this search go down. One of the things

458
00:29:02.519 --> 00:29:07.079
<v Speaker 2>that was revealed later was the police. He was unable

459
00:29:07.119 --> 00:29:12.920
<v Speaker 2>to be questioned by police immediately afterwards because he was intoxicated.

460
00:29:13.839 --> 00:29:17.960
<v Speaker 2>So he excused himself as is the police are rusor

461
00:29:18.039 --> 00:29:21.279
<v Speaker 2>he excused himself to go lay down, Yeah, because he

462
00:29:21.279 --> 00:29:24.160
<v Speaker 2>couldn't answer their questions. And then when he could answer

463
00:29:24.160 --> 00:29:28.720
<v Speaker 2>their question he didn't seem like he was He didn't

464
00:29:28.720 --> 00:29:30.839
<v Speaker 2>seem too freaked out about the fact that his traveling

465
00:29:30.880 --> 00:29:32.160
<v Speaker 2>companion had vanished.

466
00:29:33.680 --> 00:29:35.440
<v Speaker 6>The other thing that did you put in the book

467
00:29:35.519 --> 00:29:39.599
<v Speaker 6>is that is included is that it took twenty minutes.

468
00:29:39.839 --> 00:29:43.720
<v Speaker 6>He has a difficulty getting took twenty minutes for him

469
00:29:43.720 --> 00:29:47.279
<v Speaker 6>to get someone to call police after emerging, you know,

470
00:29:47.400 --> 00:29:50.200
<v Speaker 6>apparently so not much of a panic if you think

471
00:29:50.319 --> 00:29:53.279
<v Speaker 6>twenty minutes it takes for him to get a message

472
00:29:53.279 --> 00:29:56.680
<v Speaker 6>to someone to call police after he emerges from that water.

473
00:29:57.880 --> 00:30:01.920
<v Speaker 2>No, And there is surveillance of it from the bar

474
00:30:02.720 --> 00:30:07.160
<v Speaker 2>that shows him immediately afterwards, and you see him in

475
00:30:07.240 --> 00:30:11.319
<v Speaker 2>his bathing suit, actually wearing a pair of sneakers and

476
00:30:11.440 --> 00:30:15.319
<v Speaker 2>still wearing his really bad to pay and he doesn't

477
00:30:15.359 --> 00:30:19.799
<v Speaker 2>seem in a huge rush, and he's knocking on the door,

478
00:30:20.039 --> 00:30:23.200
<v Speaker 2>and it does seem that if I mean, I know

479
00:30:23.599 --> 00:30:27.200
<v Speaker 2>personally I feel that if I was in a situation

480
00:30:27.359 --> 00:30:29.960
<v Speaker 2>where someone I cared about, or someone I was traveling with,

481
00:30:30.119 --> 00:30:34.160
<v Speaker 2>or someone who I saw across the beach was in

482
00:30:34.200 --> 00:30:37.640
<v Speaker 2>some kind of trouble, I don't know how much lingering

483
00:30:38.039 --> 00:30:41.799
<v Speaker 2>I would do in order to try to find somebody

484
00:30:41.880 --> 00:30:43.799
<v Speaker 2>to help me.

485
00:30:44.480 --> 00:30:48.880
<v Speaker 6>No, no evidence, no evidence of the proper usual behavior.

486
00:30:49.680 --> 00:30:49.759
<v Speaker 4>No.

487
00:30:49.920 --> 00:30:56.839
<v Speaker 2>And this is all part and parcel of Gary Giordano's personality, because,

488
00:30:56.880 --> 00:31:03.079
<v Speaker 2>as it became revealed throughout the investigation, there here was

489
00:31:03.160 --> 00:31:07.119
<v Speaker 2>a guy who uh he was He was arrested for

490
00:31:07.319 --> 00:31:12.079
<v Speaker 2>shoplifting from Target stores. He would go into Target stores

491
00:31:12.440 --> 00:31:15.400
<v Speaker 2>in the around the DC area, and he would fill

492
00:31:15.440 --> 00:31:18.279
<v Speaker 2>his car up with electronics and he'd walk out. He'd

493
00:31:18.279 --> 00:31:20.920
<v Speaker 2>just wheel the thing out, fill up his car. And

494
00:31:20.960 --> 00:31:23.359
<v Speaker 2>this guy had the gall he would go back and

495
00:31:23.400 --> 00:31:27.240
<v Speaker 2>do it again. But because I guess they have some

496
00:31:27.279 --> 00:31:32.200
<v Speaker 2>sort of you know, security compliance thing where they don't

497
00:31:32.279 --> 00:31:35.559
<v Speaker 2>really confront people, they would never be able to call

498
00:31:35.599 --> 00:31:37.440
<v Speaker 2>the police in time and get this guy rest. Well,

499
00:31:37.440 --> 00:31:40.599
<v Speaker 2>finally he was arrested, and he just didn't seem that

500
00:31:40.759 --> 00:31:44.759
<v Speaker 2>concerned about the fact that he was he had stolen

501
00:31:45.640 --> 00:31:49.799
<v Speaker 2>from from the store, from these stores, well, and so

502
00:31:50.000 --> 00:31:53.279
<v Speaker 2>he was he was here was a very bizarre individual,

503
00:31:53.759 --> 00:31:57.680
<v Speaker 2>someone who had a history of extremely bizarre behavior, very

504
00:31:57.759 --> 00:32:01.599
<v Speaker 2>very suspicious behavior, and almost every aspect of his life.

505
00:32:02.319 --> 00:32:04.839
<v Speaker 6>Well, he's a brazen thief, and that that would make

506
00:32:04.960 --> 00:32:08.119
<v Speaker 6>sense to what he attempts to do here and how

507
00:32:09.279 --> 00:32:12.559
<v Speaker 6>out of touch he is with you know reality here.

508
00:32:12.839 --> 00:32:15.160
<v Speaker 6>You know, he's not certainly not insane, and he's not

509
00:32:15.519 --> 00:32:19.480
<v Speaker 6>he's not a stupid man, but he acts quite foolishly.

510
00:32:19.559 --> 00:32:24.880
<v Speaker 6>So he's will say, very very overly confident. The most

511
00:32:24.880 --> 00:32:27.480
<v Speaker 6>interesting aspect that we alluded to it so we might

512
00:32:27.480 --> 00:32:30.359
<v Speaker 6>as well address this, is that police, of course are

513
00:32:30.359 --> 00:32:33.880
<v Speaker 6>going to look into motive for anybody being killed at

514
00:32:33.880 --> 00:32:38.839
<v Speaker 6>any time by anyone. So what evidence do they find

515
00:32:39.200 --> 00:32:42.000
<v Speaker 6>about the insurance policy and where do they get some

516
00:32:42.039 --> 00:32:44.799
<v Speaker 6>of this evidence from in terms of who do they

517
00:32:44.799 --> 00:32:47.759
<v Speaker 6>speak to in terms of this insurance policy.

518
00:32:48.920 --> 00:32:54.160
<v Speaker 2>Well, not very long after Robin disappears, Gary calls his

519
00:32:54.240 --> 00:32:59.000
<v Speaker 2>insurance company. Now he he claims that he was instructed

520
00:32:59.039 --> 00:33:03.200
<v Speaker 2>to do that by he had retained a lawyer on

521
00:33:03.279 --> 00:33:05.960
<v Speaker 2>the island of Aruba, and he claims that the lawyer

522
00:33:05.960 --> 00:33:10.000
<v Speaker 2>told him, you need to call your insurance company, so

523
00:33:10.079 --> 00:33:13.039
<v Speaker 2>he called his insurance company. Well, it turns out that

524
00:33:13.519 --> 00:33:17.200
<v Speaker 2>Gary Giordano, before they had left the United States, Gary

525
00:33:17.240 --> 00:33:21.519
<v Speaker 2>had taken out a traveler's insurance policy on Robin Gardner

526
00:33:21.720 --> 00:33:26.920
<v Speaker 2>that covered accidental death. But it was a policy for

527
00:33:27.400 --> 00:33:31.000
<v Speaker 2>a million five a million and a half dollar policy

528
00:33:31.440 --> 00:33:34.680
<v Speaker 2>on someone he didn't really know, and he named himself

529
00:33:34.720 --> 00:33:38.000
<v Speaker 2>the beneficiary and had her sign it. So here he

530
00:33:38.160 --> 00:33:43.039
<v Speaker 2>was in contact with his insurance company, asking them all

531
00:33:43.079 --> 00:33:46.039
<v Speaker 2>sorts of questions like what do I do, what happens

532
00:33:46.079 --> 00:33:49.279
<v Speaker 2>if they don't find her? What about all any sort

533
00:33:49.319 --> 00:33:52.240
<v Speaker 2>of bills that I get for the search? So he

534
00:33:52.279 --> 00:33:56.880
<v Speaker 2>seemed much more concerned with this insurance policy than with

535
00:33:57.119 --> 00:34:04.240
<v Speaker 2>Robin's well being. And as as he tried to leave Aruba,

536
00:34:04.880 --> 00:34:08.960
<v Speaker 2>he was detained at the airport, covered in sweat, just

537
00:34:09.079 --> 00:34:12.920
<v Speaker 2>sweating profusely and very acting, very suspicious. And so they

538
00:34:13.000 --> 00:34:17.920
<v Speaker 2>stopped him feet from getting on the plane, and they,

539
00:34:17.960 --> 00:34:20.920
<v Speaker 2>you know, they slapped the cuffs on him. And as

540
00:34:20.960 --> 00:34:23.239
<v Speaker 2>he started to talk about what was going on, the

541
00:34:23.639 --> 00:34:27.440
<v Speaker 2>insurance policy was revealed, and all of a sudden, not

542
00:34:27.480 --> 00:34:31.800
<v Speaker 2>only does he have opportunity to kill Robin Gardner, but

543
00:34:31.840 --> 00:34:36.519
<v Speaker 2>he has motive to kill Robin Gardner. And when you

544
00:34:36.559 --> 00:34:40.440
<v Speaker 2>have opportunity and motive together and someone is sketchy, as

545
00:34:40.480 --> 00:34:45.719
<v Speaker 2>Gary Giordano, well, you know, to a hammer, everything looks

546
00:34:45.760 --> 00:34:48.719
<v Speaker 2>like a nail. So the police feel like we have

547
00:34:48.760 --> 00:34:51.679
<v Speaker 2>an open and shutcase. We're going to lock this guy up,

548
00:34:51.719 --> 00:34:55.639
<v Speaker 2>and we're finally going to prosecute somebody for you know,

549
00:34:55.880 --> 00:34:58.760
<v Speaker 2>someone going missing. Well, it turns out it was much

550
00:34:58.760 --> 00:34:59.679
<v Speaker 2>more difficult than that.

551
00:35:01.079 --> 00:35:07.159
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, certainly, certainly. Yeah. So now what you do in

552
00:35:08.039 --> 00:35:11.519
<v Speaker 6>Vanished Beauty is that you switched to the other story

553
00:35:11.519 --> 00:35:15.599
<v Speaker 6>that you want to draw parallels to and draw the

554
00:35:15.800 --> 00:35:19.039
<v Speaker 6>reader into for attention to the story about a woman

555
00:35:19.119 --> 00:35:23.800
<v Speaker 6>named Tina Watson Christina May Tina Thomas born in nineteen

556
00:35:24.159 --> 00:35:28.800
<v Speaker 6>seventy seven. Tell us a little bit about Tina Watson

557
00:35:29.079 --> 00:35:33.400
<v Speaker 6>and her marriage in two thousand and three, but tell

558
00:35:33.480 --> 00:35:35.599
<v Speaker 6>us about Tina Watson. Who was she?

559
00:35:37.280 --> 00:35:42.599
<v Speaker 2>Tina Watson was another small town girl from Alabama who

560
00:35:43.199 --> 00:35:47.360
<v Speaker 2>was turning thirty and watching all of her friends get married,

561
00:35:48.239 --> 00:35:53.119
<v Speaker 2>and so she married a guy who her family didn't

562
00:35:53.159 --> 00:35:55.960
<v Speaker 2>feel was right for her. They thought that she was

563
00:35:56.000 --> 00:36:00.559
<v Speaker 2>settling for this guy, Gabe Gabe Watson. And Gabe was

564
00:36:00.679 --> 00:36:03.880
<v Speaker 2>kind of another odd duck. He wasn't really the most

565
00:36:03.920 --> 00:36:09.239
<v Speaker 2>personable guy, wasn't really the most ambitious guy, not necessarily

566
00:36:09.280 --> 00:36:13.599
<v Speaker 2>the kind of person that the in laws really you know,

567
00:36:13.960 --> 00:36:16.599
<v Speaker 2>looked at and said, Wow, We're thrilled to have you

568
00:36:16.639 --> 00:36:20.320
<v Speaker 2>in our family. They were very very cold to Gabe,

569
00:36:20.320 --> 00:36:23.760
<v Speaker 2>and Gabe in turn, just kind of alienated her family

570
00:36:24.599 --> 00:36:29.519
<v Speaker 2>and insisted that you know Tina well, if he told her, like,

571
00:36:29.559 --> 00:36:32.840
<v Speaker 2>if you want to spend time with me, you have

572
00:36:33.000 --> 00:36:36.159
<v Speaker 2>to do what I'm interested in, which is scuba diving.

573
00:36:36.199 --> 00:36:39.960
<v Speaker 2>You have to be involved in my scuba diving hobby. Now,

574
00:36:40.000 --> 00:36:42.920
<v Speaker 2>Gabe had gone off and he had gotten himself certified

575
00:36:43.360 --> 00:36:46.119
<v Speaker 2>as a scuba diver and certified as a rescue diver

576
00:36:46.159 --> 00:36:50.880
<v Speaker 2>as a matter of fact, And so he gets Tina

577
00:36:51.320 --> 00:36:54.360
<v Speaker 2>to also go to the same place, the same quarry

578
00:36:54.639 --> 00:36:59.280
<v Speaker 2>in Alabama to get her certification. And she was thrilled

579
00:36:59.639 --> 00:37:01.800
<v Speaker 2>to be part of his life, that she could spend

580
00:37:01.840 --> 00:37:04.519
<v Speaker 2>weekends with him and they could enjoy this together, which

581
00:37:04.559 --> 00:37:08.960
<v Speaker 2>is why for their dream honeymoon they were going to

582
00:37:08.960 --> 00:37:11.880
<v Speaker 2>spend half of it sightseeing, which is what she wanted

583
00:37:11.920 --> 00:37:14.320
<v Speaker 2>to do in Australia, and the other half they were

584
00:37:14.320 --> 00:37:16.920
<v Speaker 2>going to spend scuba diving on an excursion boat that

585
00:37:16.960 --> 00:37:20.280
<v Speaker 2>would take them around the Great Barrier Reef. Well, as

586
00:37:20.320 --> 00:37:24.880
<v Speaker 2>it turns out, I guess learning how to scuba dive

587
00:37:24.920 --> 00:37:30.199
<v Speaker 2>in a quarry in Alabama really isn't good practice for

588
00:37:30.760 --> 00:37:34.840
<v Speaker 2>scuba diving in the open waters in a red flag

589
00:37:35.000 --> 00:37:37.480
<v Speaker 2>dive area like the Great Barrier Reef.

590
00:37:38.000 --> 00:37:40.400
<v Speaker 6>Now the thing is, though, too, you do a great

591
00:37:40.480 --> 00:37:43.320
<v Speaker 6>job of explaining this, and I'm ignorant about this. I've

592
00:37:43.360 --> 00:37:45.920
<v Speaker 6>never scuba dive, so you know, I'll put my head

593
00:37:46.000 --> 00:37:48.480
<v Speaker 6>underwater and that's about it. So the thing is is

594
00:37:48.519 --> 00:37:51.559
<v Speaker 6>that we're talking about he's been involved. He's a fanatic

595
00:37:51.639 --> 00:37:55.039
<v Speaker 6>David since ninety six and he's had fifty five. He's

596
00:37:55.039 --> 00:37:57.400
<v Speaker 6>an experienced diver. And you say, like I say, he's

597
00:37:57.440 --> 00:38:01.840
<v Speaker 6>got his rescue diving certificate and he's certified, but he's

598
00:38:01.880 --> 00:38:03.800
<v Speaker 6>been doing it for a long time. By the time

599
00:38:03.920 --> 00:38:07.079
<v Speaker 6>we're talking two thousand and three, she says, yes, I

600
00:38:07.119 --> 00:38:09.239
<v Speaker 6>want to do this, but we're talking she's doing it

601
00:38:09.360 --> 00:38:12.639
<v Speaker 6>just a couple months. She just gets certified a couple months,

602
00:38:12.719 --> 00:38:15.840
<v Speaker 6>like you say, in this pool, in a backyard or

603
00:38:15.880 --> 00:38:18.679
<v Speaker 6>a pool somewhere, and it's only a couple months before

604
00:38:18.719 --> 00:38:22.320
<v Speaker 6>this dream honeymoon. So I just wanted to say that

605
00:38:22.400 --> 00:38:26.239
<v Speaker 6>as well, that compared to his experience, she is a

606
00:38:26.280 --> 00:38:26.960
<v Speaker 6>real novice.

607
00:38:27.079 --> 00:38:31.800
<v Speaker 2>Oh, she's a complete nube. And as it turns out,

608
00:38:31.960 --> 00:38:37.800
<v Speaker 2>Gabe didn't realize the situation they were entering. He didn't

609
00:38:37.840 --> 00:38:42.360
<v Speaker 2>realize that maybe they weren't prepared for dives like this,

610
00:38:42.400 --> 00:38:44.519
<v Speaker 2>because even though he had been diving for quite a

611
00:38:44.519 --> 00:38:47.679
<v Speaker 2>while and was certified as a rescue diver, he had

612
00:38:47.719 --> 00:38:52.400
<v Speaker 2>never The only open water dives he had done were

613
00:38:52.519 --> 00:38:55.800
<v Speaker 2>to a much shallower depth in much calmer waters in

614
00:38:55.840 --> 00:39:00.159
<v Speaker 2>the Gulf of Mexico. Now the Great Barrier reef is

615
00:39:00.159 --> 00:39:04.519
<v Speaker 2>is uh that that's definitely much more of an advanced

616
00:39:04.880 --> 00:39:09.679
<v Speaker 2>scuba diving venue than say a quarry in Alabama or

617
00:39:09.800 --> 00:39:13.960
<v Speaker 2>the calm waters around the Gulf of Mexico. And so

618
00:39:14.079 --> 00:39:17.639
<v Speaker 2>they enter the water on their first dive after uh

619
00:39:17.960 --> 00:39:22.639
<v Speaker 2>Tina had declined taking any sort of instructional dive from

620
00:39:22.679 --> 00:39:24.199
<v Speaker 2>the dive master of their boat.

621
00:39:24.760 --> 00:39:28.480
<v Speaker 6>I think that's important because she she declines twice. He

622
00:39:28.480 --> 00:39:31.880
<v Speaker 6>he's this master diver, and he's and he's boord this

623
00:39:31.880 --> 00:39:34.840
<v Speaker 6>this luxury boat, and part of this expedition is that,

624
00:39:35.280 --> 00:39:38.400
<v Speaker 6>you know, he's taking responsibility. And despite she says, no, no,

625
00:39:38.440 --> 00:39:41.159
<v Speaker 6>I'm with I'm with my best buddy, my partner, my my,

626
00:39:41.159 --> 00:39:45.199
<v Speaker 6>my guy here, he says twice. So I think it's

627
00:39:45.320 --> 00:39:48.159
<v Speaker 6>you know, ironic that he singles her out and says, listen,

628
00:39:48.199 --> 00:39:51.320
<v Speaker 6>I think you should suggest I'm suggesting a training dive

629
00:39:51.400 --> 00:39:53.960
<v Speaker 6>with a pro. And she declines twice.

630
00:39:54.280 --> 00:39:57.239
<v Speaker 2>She said, no, no, I'm I'm here with my my husband,

631
00:39:57.599 --> 00:40:00.719
<v Speaker 2>my dive buddy here. And Tina seems like the kind

632
00:40:00.760 --> 00:40:04.440
<v Speaker 2>of she was kind of a submissive type, you know,

633
00:40:04.559 --> 00:40:07.920
<v Speaker 2>she she really kind. She wanted to make Gabe happy

634
00:40:08.000 --> 00:40:13.440
<v Speaker 2>was really what she wanted. And so there's no evidence

635
00:40:13.480 --> 00:40:16.320
<v Speaker 2>that Gabe gave her a glance and said, oh, no,

636
00:40:16.360 --> 00:40:18.639
<v Speaker 2>you're not getting a training dive. She she just flat

637
00:40:18.719 --> 00:40:21.960
<v Speaker 2>turned it down. She just she thought that she was

638
00:40:22.000 --> 00:40:24.679
<v Speaker 2>ready for something like this, and it turned out to

639
00:40:24.719 --> 00:40:29.760
<v Speaker 2>be a very fatal mistake because as they entered the water,

640
00:40:31.719 --> 00:40:34.400
<v Speaker 2>there was a situation Gabe had with his equipment. They

641
00:40:34.440 --> 00:40:37.159
<v Speaker 2>had to hang back a little bit, and as they

642
00:40:38.119 --> 00:40:42.800
<v Speaker 2>fixed Gabe's dive computer so that it worked properly so

643
00:40:42.840 --> 00:40:46.199
<v Speaker 2>they could join the rest of the excursion group in

644
00:40:46.239 --> 00:40:51.000
<v Speaker 2>the water right away, she had difficulty. And so within

645
00:40:51.639 --> 00:40:58.920
<v Speaker 2>minutes of this dive, she was struggling and she turned

646
00:40:58.960 --> 00:41:02.480
<v Speaker 2>she was she started into panic, and she started to sink.

647
00:41:03.199 --> 00:41:07.119
<v Speaker 2>And Gabe turned around, and here she was trying to

648
00:41:08.239 --> 00:41:17.280
<v Speaker 2>desperately write this situation, and she was she was overbreathing.

649
00:41:17.599 --> 00:41:21.559
<v Speaker 2>She was panicked. She flailed her arm and knocked his

650
00:41:21.599 --> 00:41:25.800
<v Speaker 2>mask away. And as he tried to write, his regulator

651
00:41:25.840 --> 00:41:28.119
<v Speaker 2>his airpiece in his mouth and put his mask back

652
00:41:28.159 --> 00:41:32.519
<v Speaker 2>in place. While his wife is panicking, he finally looks down.

653
00:41:33.079 --> 00:41:35.440
<v Speaker 2>In the seconds that it took in order for him

654
00:41:35.480 --> 00:41:37.280
<v Speaker 2>to be able to see and breathe again, he looked

655
00:41:37.320 --> 00:41:39.719
<v Speaker 2>down and she was sinking. She was sinking. In this

656
00:41:39.880 --> 00:41:42.280
<v Speaker 2>ninety foot water. She was ten feet below him, and

657
00:41:42.320 --> 00:41:44.239
<v Speaker 2>he turned and he tried to kick down to her

658
00:41:44.559 --> 00:41:46.519
<v Speaker 2>and claims that he couldn't reach her, that she was

659
00:41:46.559 --> 00:41:49.480
<v Speaker 2>sinking too fast, she was plummeting towards the bottom. And

660
00:41:49.519 --> 00:41:51.239
<v Speaker 2>this was in minutes of them.

661
00:41:51.119 --> 00:41:53.639
<v Speaker 6>Entering the water, right six minutes soon.

662
00:41:54.239 --> 00:42:00.320
<v Speaker 2>So Gabe then makes a snap decision instead of trying

663
00:42:00.360 --> 00:42:04.679
<v Speaker 2>to go down and get her, he went for help.

664
00:42:05.480 --> 00:42:08.440
<v Speaker 2>And they were already added depth at which he couldn't

665
00:42:08.480 --> 00:42:12.360
<v Speaker 2>just shoot up to the surface if you know, he

666
00:42:12.360 --> 00:42:15.280
<v Speaker 2>would he would have to ascend at a at a

667
00:42:15.880 --> 00:42:19.280
<v Speaker 2>pace that would prevent him from from getting you know,

668
00:42:19.400 --> 00:42:22.800
<v Speaker 2>air bubbles in his in his blood, you know, the benz.

669
00:42:22.559 --> 00:42:25.159
<v Speaker 6>The benz, right, so it could you can you can.

670
00:42:25.039 --> 00:42:28.320
<v Speaker 2>Die from the benz. And so he goes and he

671
00:42:28.400 --> 00:42:30.840
<v Speaker 2>decides to get help while Tina sinks to the bottom.

672
00:42:31.800 --> 00:42:35.480
<v Speaker 2>Now where the story becomes interesting and how it intersects

673
00:42:36.039 --> 00:42:40.159
<v Speaker 2>uh with the Robin Gardner story. What I found very

674
00:42:40.159 --> 00:42:45.320
<v Speaker 2>compelling was the fact that Gabe was accused of murdering

675
00:42:45.360 --> 00:42:48.559
<v Speaker 2>his life, and it turned out that there was The

676
00:42:48.639 --> 00:42:52.079
<v Speaker 2>accusation came because there was there was insurance policy, There

677
00:42:52.119 --> 00:42:56.400
<v Speaker 2>was a million dollar life insurance policy that Tina's father

678
00:42:56.719 --> 00:43:03.159
<v Speaker 2>claims Gabe wanted, which so that he would be the beneficiary.

679
00:43:02.800 --> 00:43:04.519
<v Speaker 6>And this is shortly before their marriage.

680
00:43:04.920 --> 00:43:07.280
<v Speaker 2>This is shortly before their marriage.

681
00:43:06.719 --> 00:43:10.280
<v Speaker 6>Andreas and increased the amount to a million dollars.

682
00:43:10.199 --> 00:43:12.519
<v Speaker 2>Right max out the policy. She goes to her father

683
00:43:12.599 --> 00:43:15.400
<v Speaker 2>and says, Gabe wants me to increase the life insurance

684
00:43:15.400 --> 00:43:18.960
<v Speaker 2>policy to the full million dollars and make him the beneficiary.

685
00:43:19.960 --> 00:43:24.440
<v Speaker 2>So when so Tina sinks to the bottom and she

686
00:43:24.639 --> 00:43:28.800
<v Speaker 2>dies and they rescue her body, but it's too late,

687
00:43:29.960 --> 00:43:33.039
<v Speaker 2>and initially the whole thing is ruled as an accident.

688
00:43:33.639 --> 00:43:37.159
<v Speaker 2>But it's not until her father gets a phone call

689
00:43:37.199 --> 00:43:39.440
<v Speaker 2>from a couple of people who were on the boat

690
00:43:39.440 --> 00:43:43.280
<v Speaker 2>who said, well, you know this Gabe afterwards, he didn't

691
00:43:43.280 --> 00:43:47.559
<v Speaker 2>really seem that concerned. He seemed he seemed, you know,

692
00:43:47.599 --> 00:43:50.679
<v Speaker 2>he's playing cards and I don't know, he just it

693
00:43:50.719 --> 00:43:55.079
<v Speaker 2>doesn't all add up. And here was Gabe, this rescue diver,

694
00:43:55.400 --> 00:43:58.840
<v Speaker 2>an experienced diver, and he couldn't rescue his wife.

695
00:43:59.199 --> 00:44:04.280
<v Speaker 6>You added two things too as well, that you added

696
00:44:04.320 --> 00:44:09.119
<v Speaker 6>a history of Gabe Watson despite having him claiming having

697
00:44:09.159 --> 00:44:13.119
<v Speaker 6>hearing problems, had dove seventy five feet to help his

698
00:44:13.159 --> 00:44:17.719
<v Speaker 6>partner out, his diving his diving partner, so there was

699
00:44:17.760 --> 00:44:20.280
<v Speaker 6>at least that history of an attempt to dive down.

700
00:44:20.440 --> 00:44:24.000
<v Speaker 6>She was down ninety to one hundred feet, but he

701
00:44:24.039 --> 00:44:27.320
<v Speaker 6>had dove in the past seventy five feet to help

702
00:44:27.360 --> 00:44:30.639
<v Speaker 6>his partner out, his buddy out. So the other thing

703
00:44:30.800 --> 00:44:32.840
<v Speaker 6>was that you said that there was a singleton that

704
00:44:33.119 --> 00:44:36.119
<v Speaker 6>master diver was the actual person that got her off

705
00:44:36.159 --> 00:44:39.039
<v Speaker 6>the bottom because he was already underwater. For you said

706
00:44:39.039 --> 00:44:44.320
<v Speaker 6>seven minutes. And there was a doctor Stuts that claimed,

707
00:44:44.960 --> 00:44:48.599
<v Speaker 6>maybe I'll let you explain to the audience what he

708
00:44:48.719 --> 00:44:53.639
<v Speaker 6>said he witnessed underwater regarding Gabe and Tina.

709
00:44:53.840 --> 00:44:59.760
<v Speaker 2>Well as the authorities were questioning the other people who

710
00:44:59.800 --> 00:45:05.320
<v Speaker 2>were on the excursion. This doctor and you know, you

711
00:45:05.360 --> 00:45:08.199
<v Speaker 2>go and you ask a doctor what did you see?

712
00:45:08.239 --> 00:45:11.480
<v Speaker 2>I mean, a doctor is a very credible witness, sure

713
00:45:11.719 --> 00:45:14.239
<v Speaker 2>just by Richard the fact that he's a doctor. And

714
00:45:14.280 --> 00:45:18.360
<v Speaker 2>the doctor says, well, I saw them struggling, and I

715
00:45:18.559 --> 00:45:21.480
<v Speaker 2>saw I saw Gabe hold her in a bear hug

716
00:45:22.280 --> 00:45:25.480
<v Speaker 2>moments before she sank to the bottom. And the suspicion

717
00:45:25.559 --> 00:45:30.519
<v Speaker 2>became that Gabe had was holding Tina turned off her

718
00:45:30.559 --> 00:45:35.159
<v Speaker 2>air until she suffocated, and then once she was held

719
00:45:35.199 --> 00:45:38.119
<v Speaker 2>her until she she died, and then once she was dead,

720
00:45:38.400 --> 00:45:41.440
<v Speaker 2>turned her air back on in order to make it

721
00:45:41.480 --> 00:45:45.360
<v Speaker 2>seem like her her gear was working, not that somebody

722
00:45:45.400 --> 00:45:47.960
<v Speaker 2>turned off her tank in mid dive, because that would

723
00:45:48.000 --> 00:45:51.880
<v Speaker 2>be suspicious. And so he claims that he saw them

724
00:45:51.960 --> 00:45:54.639
<v Speaker 2>in a bear hug, that she was struggling and then

725
00:45:54.679 --> 00:45:57.360
<v Speaker 2>she sank to the bottom, and this is something that

726
00:45:57.400 --> 00:46:02.000
<v Speaker 2>he claims he saw. And you know, as as the

727
00:46:02.039 --> 00:46:09.480
<v Speaker 2>investigation went on, it really became this very questionable piece

728
00:46:09.480 --> 00:46:11.719
<v Speaker 2>of evidence. Even though it was the most damning piece

729
00:46:11.760 --> 00:46:15.119
<v Speaker 2>of evidence against Gabe. It was something that doctor Stutts

730
00:46:15.119 --> 00:46:20.519
<v Speaker 2>had only seen very fleetingly and from thirty yards away,

731
00:46:21.159 --> 00:46:24.920
<v Speaker 2>which is a considerable distance in the water, and from above.

732
00:46:25.440 --> 00:46:30.320
<v Speaker 2>So here was somebody who saw something but wasn't really

733
00:46:30.320 --> 00:46:34.159
<v Speaker 2>sure what they saw. But again, it was enough evidence

734
00:46:34.440 --> 00:46:40.159
<v Speaker 2>in order for the Australian authorities to eventually years later

735
00:46:40.480 --> 00:46:44.840
<v Speaker 2>reopened the case at the behest of Tina's parents and

736
00:46:45.800 --> 00:46:53.320
<v Speaker 2>charge Gabe with murder, but they weren't able to prove

737
00:46:54.360 --> 00:46:56.679
<v Speaker 2>that he murdered her.

738
00:46:57.159 --> 00:47:01.480
<v Speaker 6>Well, I mean, his case is we're going to do

739
00:47:01.679 --> 00:47:07.719
<v Speaker 6>jump back to the Gary Giordano case. For the audience

740
00:47:07.760 --> 00:47:10.880
<v Speaker 6>to see that, the reader to see the progress in

741
00:47:10.920 --> 00:47:15.360
<v Speaker 6>that case. So let's go back to Gary Giordano and

742
00:47:15.559 --> 00:47:18.639
<v Speaker 6>the mounting evidence against him, or the case against him,

743
00:47:18.719 --> 00:47:20.920
<v Speaker 6>or the attempt. Now, what I wanted, what I was

744
00:47:20.960 --> 00:47:24.639
<v Speaker 6>trying to allude to, was that if people are listening

745
00:47:24.840 --> 00:47:28.280
<v Speaker 6>kind of carefully, Gary gi Ordano seems to have much

746
00:47:28.320 --> 00:47:30.639
<v Speaker 6>more of a motive, a very clear motive, even though

747
00:47:30.639 --> 00:47:33.119
<v Speaker 6>it's circumstantial evidence. There seems to be more of a

748
00:47:33.159 --> 00:47:37.840
<v Speaker 6>case against him. It seemed for your average Joe as

749
00:47:37.880 --> 00:47:40.960
<v Speaker 6>opposed to the Gabe Watson case. But just tell our

750
00:47:41.000 --> 00:47:46.119
<v Speaker 6>audience before we get back to Giordano, which case did police,

751
00:47:46.440 --> 00:47:51.360
<v Speaker 6>when prosecutors think they had a solid case, did they

752
00:47:51.360 --> 00:47:55.159
<v Speaker 6>think Watson was comparable We'll say, to the Giordano case

753
00:47:55.199 --> 00:47:59.039
<v Speaker 6>in terms of enough circumstantial evidence to be able to

754
00:47:59.039 --> 00:48:00.360
<v Speaker 6>prosecute case.

755
00:48:01.280 --> 00:48:05.639
<v Speaker 2>Well, the Gabe Watson case happened years earlier. It happened

756
00:48:05.639 --> 00:48:10.360
<v Speaker 2>in two thousand and three, and it resurfaced again years

757
00:48:10.440 --> 00:48:12.760
<v Speaker 2>later when the case had opened. So this happened before

758
00:48:13.519 --> 00:48:18.599
<v Speaker 2>what had happened with Robin Gardner, and it was it

759
00:48:19.119 --> 00:48:22.760
<v Speaker 2>was one of the similarities in this case. It just

760
00:48:22.800 --> 00:48:25.199
<v Speaker 2>felt like I was looking at what happened with Rob

761
00:48:25.320 --> 00:48:28.880
<v Speaker 2>with with Tina Watson and Gabe Watson, and I thought

762
00:48:28.920 --> 00:48:33.280
<v Speaker 2>to myself, wait, is this what happened to Robin? Is

763
00:48:33.320 --> 00:48:39.639
<v Speaker 2>this the same situation? And as they as I looked

764
00:48:39.639 --> 00:48:43.719
<v Speaker 2>at the evidence that was against Gary Giordano, there was

765
00:48:44.760 --> 00:48:49.119
<v Speaker 2>there were elements of his case, of Gary's case that

766
00:48:49.239 --> 00:48:54.199
<v Speaker 2>were so open to interpretation. They didn't have any any

767
00:48:54.320 --> 00:48:58.599
<v Speaker 2>physical evidence against this guy. The only evidence that they

768
00:48:58.719 --> 00:49:04.360
<v Speaker 2>actually found was that he and Robin were involved in

769
00:49:04.440 --> 00:49:09.639
<v Speaker 2>a sexual relationship, because he had a lot of let's say,

770
00:49:09.840 --> 00:49:14.400
<v Speaker 2>very dirty pictures of them doing the nasty in their

771
00:49:14.400 --> 00:49:20.199
<v Speaker 2>hotel room on his camera. So this was not something

772
00:49:20.199 --> 00:49:25.039
<v Speaker 2>he had disclosed before. And as these little pieces of

773
00:49:25.079 --> 00:49:29.440
<v Speaker 2>information about Gary Giordano that he had taken, these pictures

774
00:49:29.480 --> 00:49:32.480
<v Speaker 2>of them having sex, these dirty pictures of her posing

775
00:49:32.519 --> 00:49:35.320
<v Speaker 2>on the bed and just them and the act, and

776
00:49:36.239 --> 00:49:39.840
<v Speaker 2>it just made him seem slimier. And the fact that

777
00:49:39.880 --> 00:49:44.519
<v Speaker 2>he had tried to he contacted the insurance company, but

778
00:49:44.639 --> 00:49:47.519
<v Speaker 2>this was the only evidence they had. They couldn't link

779
00:49:48.000 --> 00:49:50.159
<v Speaker 2>him to any sort of physical elevenance and they didn't

780
00:49:50.159 --> 00:49:53.760
<v Speaker 2>have a body, and without a body, it was even

781
00:49:54.079 --> 00:50:01.119
<v Speaker 2>more impossible for them to try and pinpoint a cause

782
00:50:01.159 --> 00:50:04.239
<v Speaker 2>of death or how he could have done anything to her.

783
00:50:04.440 --> 00:50:08.440
<v Speaker 2>So he spent four months in jail while they tried

784
00:50:08.719 --> 00:50:11.719
<v Speaker 2>to They they opened the case up, they tried to

785
00:50:12.079 --> 00:50:15.519
<v Speaker 2>find more eyewitnesses, anyone who had come for us. And

786
00:50:15.559 --> 00:50:20.079
<v Speaker 2>there were people who claimed that they saw Gary and

787
00:50:20.199 --> 00:50:24.000
<v Speaker 2>Robin talking to some strange man, some strange tattooed man

788
00:50:24.519 --> 00:50:28.760
<v Speaker 2>that afternoon before she vanished. And this man also vanished

789
00:50:28.760 --> 00:50:31.920
<v Speaker 2>from the island. They couldn't find him, and and of

790
00:50:31.920 --> 00:50:37.360
<v Speaker 2>course there were there were accusations of of well, this

791
00:50:37.480 --> 00:50:42.239
<v Speaker 2>whole Madie Holloway case became the suss that you're in.

792
00:50:42.360 --> 00:50:47.880
<v Speaker 2>Vanderslute became a he became a sensation when he started

793
00:50:47.880 --> 00:50:51.000
<v Speaker 2>to talk about, oh, I sold Madleie Holloway into white

794
00:50:51.039 --> 00:50:54.719
<v Speaker 2>slavery to a Venezuelan man. So all of a sudden

795
00:50:54.800 --> 00:50:58.639
<v Speaker 2>people started to, well, look, did Gary Giordano sell Robin

796
00:50:58.679 --> 00:51:03.280
<v Speaker 2>Gardner into some you know, prostitution ring, some South American

797
00:51:03.320 --> 00:51:08.320
<v Speaker 2>prostitution ring. Did she end up like Jurine vander Slut's

798
00:51:08.360 --> 00:51:11.760
<v Speaker 2>story where he claims that some man that he met

799
00:51:11.760 --> 00:51:16.719
<v Speaker 2>at a casino offered him ten grand for a blonde woman,

800
00:51:16.880 --> 00:51:22.079
<v Speaker 2>And so all of these bizarre stories and twists from

801
00:51:22.079 --> 00:51:26.880
<v Speaker 2>the Natalie Holloway case became points of interest in the

802
00:51:26.960 --> 00:51:30.519
<v Speaker 2>Robin Gardner case because of the similarity of the disappearances.

803
00:51:30.639 --> 00:51:33.960
<v Speaker 2>So people were looking for this strange man who was

804
00:51:34.639 --> 00:51:39.000
<v Speaker 2>a pimp for the South American you know, underground, and

805
00:51:40.159 --> 00:51:44.360
<v Speaker 2>they were looking for ways that Gary Giordano could have

806
00:51:44.440 --> 00:51:51.119
<v Speaker 2>been somehow interested in the Natalie Holloway disappearance or was

807
00:51:51.159 --> 00:51:55.840
<v Speaker 2>he somehow tied into organized crime. I mean, here's a

808
00:51:55.880 --> 00:51:57.639
<v Speaker 2>guy with a vowel at the end of his name.

809
00:51:57.719 --> 00:52:01.360
<v Speaker 2>He must be tied into some sort of mafia somewhere.

810
00:52:02.440 --> 00:52:08.360
<v Speaker 6>And so that, let's the thing I wanted to ask

811
00:52:08.599 --> 00:52:12.320
<v Speaker 6>was the when do police get to speak to actually

812
00:52:12.880 --> 00:52:16.280
<v Speaker 6>to Sharon Cohen, who had three kids with him, and

813
00:52:16.360 --> 00:52:19.079
<v Speaker 6>she said he can't control his anger. And then they

814
00:52:19.800 --> 00:52:26.000
<v Speaker 6>found a very very interesting person named Jeannette Farrago, and

815
00:52:26.079 --> 00:52:30.119
<v Speaker 6>so she talked about stalking. And then there's the offer.

816
00:52:30.840 --> 00:52:33.039
<v Speaker 6>Then there's the offer with the mother and the daughter

817
00:52:33.639 --> 00:52:37.000
<v Speaker 6>and the modeling, which you know, just shows his character,

818
00:52:37.400 --> 00:52:40.599
<v Speaker 6>but also the very very ironic and maybe we'll say

819
00:52:40.599 --> 00:52:44.679
<v Speaker 6>cryptic he says something referring to Natalie Holloway. So tell

820
00:52:44.760 --> 00:52:47.440
<v Speaker 6>us a little bit about that. That's a fascinating aspect

821
00:52:47.480 --> 00:52:51.079
<v Speaker 6>of this too. What he says and his past behavior

822
00:52:51.280 --> 00:52:53.719
<v Speaker 6>and when he's talking to the mother trying to procure

823
00:52:54.039 --> 00:52:56.280
<v Speaker 6>her daughter. Very interesting story.

824
00:52:56.760 --> 00:53:02.280
<v Speaker 2>So as this story opens up and as the news

825
00:53:02.320 --> 00:53:06.800
<v Speaker 2>are digging around for information about this guy, Gary Giardano,

826
00:53:07.239 --> 00:53:11.920
<v Speaker 2>they find his first wife and they find that there

827
00:53:11.960 --> 00:53:14.480
<v Speaker 2>are you know, you can look up police records, so

828
00:53:14.480 --> 00:53:16.800
<v Speaker 2>they're very easy to find, especially in the state of Maryland.

829
00:53:17.320 --> 00:53:20.719
<v Speaker 2>So they look up his police records and there he is,

830
00:53:20.840 --> 00:53:24.400
<v Speaker 2>you know, domestic abuse against his wife and he was

831
00:53:24.639 --> 00:53:27.320
<v Speaker 2>They look into the records and the police showed up

832
00:53:27.360 --> 00:53:29.880
<v Speaker 2>and they had a fight and she claimed he was abusive.

833
00:53:30.199 --> 00:53:32.760
<v Speaker 2>And then there was this girlfriend that was shortly after

834
00:53:32.840 --> 00:53:36.400
<v Speaker 2>his divorce, and she claims that he was stalking her

835
00:53:36.440 --> 00:53:38.880
<v Speaker 2>and he threatened her, and he was very controlling and

836
00:53:39.320 --> 00:53:42.559
<v Speaker 2>made her text him anytime she went somewhere to prove

837
00:53:42.679 --> 00:53:46.480
<v Speaker 2>that she wasn't with somebody very jealous man. And so

838
00:53:46.599 --> 00:53:52.480
<v Speaker 2>this thread of this jealousy and controlling behavior and somewhat

839
00:53:53.360 --> 00:54:00.760
<v Speaker 2>psychotic personality was definitely something. This history of Mary Giardano

840
00:54:01.199 --> 00:54:04.719
<v Speaker 2>wasn't painting a very nice picture of him. As a

841
00:54:04.719 --> 00:54:08.159
<v Speaker 2>matter of fact, this Janet Ferrago. She claims that Gary

842
00:54:08.320 --> 00:54:12.760
<v Speaker 2>once showed up outside of her window wearing a deer

843
00:54:12.880 --> 00:54:16.400
<v Speaker 2>mask and holding a flashlight to his safe, just to

844
00:54:16.440 --> 00:54:19.440
<v Speaker 2>freak her out or something. That he had taken pictures

845
00:54:20.239 --> 00:54:23.800
<v Speaker 2>of her when they were having sex, and he had

846
00:54:24.280 --> 00:54:26.400
<v Speaker 2>made copies of them, and after they broke up, he

847
00:54:26.440 --> 00:54:29.480
<v Speaker 2>had put them in her neighbor's mailboxes to harass her.

848
00:54:30.039 --> 00:54:32.039
<v Speaker 2>And she was so scared of the guy she wouldn't

849
00:54:32.079 --> 00:54:34.199
<v Speaker 2>go through with the restraining order.

850
00:54:34.760 --> 00:54:35.280
<v Speaker 6>That's right.

851
00:54:35.920 --> 00:54:39.360
<v Speaker 2>And so as people are coming out of the woodwork,

852
00:54:39.400 --> 00:54:42.840
<v Speaker 2>as the press, as people are locating these people who

853
00:54:42.920 --> 00:54:48.559
<v Speaker 2>had any sort of you know, legal conflicts with Gary Giordano,

854
00:54:49.000 --> 00:54:52.000
<v Speaker 2>and these people, these women who claimed that he was

855
00:54:52.320 --> 00:54:54.920
<v Speaker 2>he was not a very nice person. Well, all of

856
00:54:54.960 --> 00:54:57.039
<v Speaker 2>a sudden, this woman comes out and she says, well,

857
00:54:57.599 --> 00:55:01.800
<v Speaker 2>not that long ago, Gary Giordano posed as a modeling

858
00:55:02.239 --> 00:55:10.639
<v Speaker 2>talent manager and he found my underage daughter's picture online

859
00:55:10.719 --> 00:55:15.559
<v Speaker 2>on one of these modeling websites, amateur modeling websites, and

860
00:55:15.679 --> 00:55:20.199
<v Speaker 2>he called us up and he offered her a get this,

861
00:55:20.599 --> 00:55:23.960
<v Speaker 2>a trip to Aruba for a modeling shoot, a modeling

862
00:55:23.960 --> 00:55:27.360
<v Speaker 2>shoot that of course did not exist, and Gary said, well,

863
00:55:27.440 --> 00:55:30.320
<v Speaker 2>you know, she I will I will be with her

864
00:55:30.679 --> 00:55:35.360
<v Speaker 2>the whole time. You know, I'll be her chaperone, and

865
00:55:35.440 --> 00:55:37.559
<v Speaker 2>no need for you to come, mom, I'll be taking

866
00:55:37.559 --> 00:55:39.079
<v Speaker 2>care of it. Well, you know, we'll be staying in

867
00:55:39.159 --> 00:55:42.159
<v Speaker 2>the same room. Don't worry, your underage daughter will be

868
00:55:42.239 --> 00:55:46.559
<v Speaker 2>fine in Aruba on her modeling gig that doesn't really exist.

869
00:55:47.079 --> 00:55:49.639
<v Speaker 2>And then when she started to question him, all of

870
00:55:49.679 --> 00:55:53.760
<v Speaker 2>a sudden, in what would seem like a very unprofessional way,

871
00:55:54.280 --> 00:55:57.039
<v Speaker 2>Gary started to proposition her as well, well, well I

872
00:55:57.039 --> 00:56:00.559
<v Speaker 2>could probably do a mother daughter shoot and you know

873
00:56:00.639 --> 00:56:03.079
<v Speaker 2>would I've never been with a mother and daughter together.

874
00:56:03.280 --> 00:56:06.440
<v Speaker 2>He got really kind of, you know, very very greasy

875
00:56:06.480 --> 00:56:07.599
<v Speaker 2>at that point.

876
00:56:07.760 --> 00:56:09.960
<v Speaker 6>What did he say about Natalie Holloway though.

877
00:56:10.199 --> 00:56:12.639
<v Speaker 2>He said, because the mother was like, well, you know

878
00:56:12.679 --> 00:56:14.800
<v Speaker 2>you're you're going to take my daughter out of the country,

879
00:56:14.840 --> 00:56:16.840
<v Speaker 2>he said, oh, you know, don't worry. This isn't going

880
00:56:16.880 --> 00:56:20.559
<v Speaker 2>to be another Natalie Holloway thing. These are this is

881
00:56:20.639 --> 00:56:24.360
<v Speaker 2>the He's he's invoking the memory of Natalie Holloway to

882
00:56:24.400 --> 00:56:27.960
<v Speaker 2>try and reassure this mother that he's going to take

883
00:56:28.000 --> 00:56:31.719
<v Speaker 2>care of her daughter on this trip to Aruba, that

884
00:56:31.800 --> 00:56:35.119
<v Speaker 2>he wants to take her to an underage girl, and

885
00:56:35.199 --> 00:56:38.840
<v Speaker 2>so it was, uh, well, she wasn't underaged, really she was.

886
00:56:38.880 --> 00:56:43.400
<v Speaker 2>She was really kind of of age but young. And

887
00:56:43.400 --> 00:56:47.119
<v Speaker 2>and so when this comes out in the wake of

888
00:56:47.199 --> 00:56:51.320
<v Speaker 2>his arrest, all of a sudden, you know, there is

889
00:56:51.559 --> 00:56:55.039
<v Speaker 2>even more suspicion heaped on Gary Giordano. Here's someone who

890
00:56:55.079 --> 00:56:57.599
<v Speaker 2>has a history of lying to women to get them

891
00:56:57.880 --> 00:57:00.719
<v Speaker 2>to try to go to Aruba with them with him

892
00:57:00.760 --> 00:57:02.719
<v Speaker 2>so that he can have sex with him. He's a

893
00:57:02.760 --> 00:57:03.760
<v Speaker 2>sexual predator.

894
00:57:04.840 --> 00:57:09.239
<v Speaker 6>He had also purchased, which is even more interesting, He

895
00:57:09.280 --> 00:57:18.360
<v Speaker 6>had also purchased an insurance policy a month before or

896
00:57:18.400 --> 00:57:20.480
<v Speaker 6>six months before for Carrie Emerson.

897
00:57:21.840 --> 00:57:27.119
<v Speaker 2>Yes, and so here here was here was this All

898
00:57:27.159 --> 00:57:30.199
<v Speaker 2>of a sudden, there was a series brewing that this

899
00:57:30.440 --> 00:57:33.559
<v Speaker 2>was his plan. He's going to take a woman to Aruba,

900
00:57:33.880 --> 00:57:37.679
<v Speaker 2>make her vanish without Eddie eyewitnesses, and then claim this

901
00:57:37.719 --> 00:57:43.480
<v Speaker 2>big insurance prize. And it became even more suspicious when

902
00:57:43.519 --> 00:57:47.599
<v Speaker 2>it was revealed later on that not long before this,

903
00:57:48.079 --> 00:57:53.639
<v Speaker 2>Gary tried to sue a company he was. Gary Giordano

904
00:57:53.719 --> 00:57:58.039
<v Speaker 2>owns this very small HR tech HR firm that he

905
00:57:58.119 --> 00:58:01.519
<v Speaker 2>runs out of his house, million dollar mansion he has

906
00:58:01.599 --> 00:58:05.400
<v Speaker 2>in uh outside of DC, and so he had tried

907
00:58:05.440 --> 00:58:10.360
<v Speaker 2>to sue one of his clients, Uh for five million dollars. Well,

908
00:58:10.360 --> 00:58:13.639
<v Speaker 2>it turns out that Gary Uh the case ended up

909
00:58:13.639 --> 00:58:17.079
<v Speaker 2>being dropped because or Gary ended up dropping the case

910
00:58:17.119 --> 00:58:21.559
<v Speaker 2>because it was he had he had forged documents, he

911
00:58:21.559 --> 00:58:26.440
<v Speaker 2>he committed fraud. So in order to cleanly walk away

912
00:58:26.480 --> 00:58:30.559
<v Speaker 2>and not be arrested for fraud or you know, anything

913
00:58:30.599 --> 00:58:32.559
<v Speaker 2>like that, he was he walked away from this case.

914
00:58:32.599 --> 00:58:35.840
<v Speaker 2>But here was a guy who's willing to commit fraud

915
00:58:36.079 --> 00:58:40.159
<v Speaker 2>in court to try to sue for five million dollars

916
00:58:40.360 --> 00:58:44.199
<v Speaker 2>against a company that he claims did him wrong, which didn't.

917
00:58:45.039 --> 00:58:47.800
<v Speaker 2>So you know this again, all of these things come out.

918
00:58:47.800 --> 00:58:51.559
<v Speaker 2>Here's a guy willing to scam millions of dollars from

919
00:58:51.559 --> 00:58:55.159
<v Speaker 2>this company. Of course this all fits into his profile.

920
00:58:56.920 --> 00:59:00.320
<v Speaker 6>Now what is we've only got We're going to go

921
00:59:00.360 --> 00:59:03.519
<v Speaker 6>a little bit later because we have two detailed stories here,

922
00:59:03.559 --> 00:59:05.239
<v Speaker 6>but I know you don't want to give too much

923
00:59:05.320 --> 00:59:09.159
<v Speaker 6>information here in terms of some of the surprises here,

924
00:59:09.199 --> 00:59:13.599
<v Speaker 6>in terms of is there a conviction are these what's

925
00:59:13.639 --> 00:59:16.519
<v Speaker 6>what's the success at trial? What's the defense? How do

926
00:59:16.559 --> 00:59:19.400
<v Speaker 6>they try to defend against this? So we won't have

927
00:59:19.440 --> 00:59:24.320
<v Speaker 6>time to go into all that, But let's first go

928
00:59:24.440 --> 00:59:28.760
<v Speaker 6>into Gary Giordano. Now that the police have all this information,

929
00:59:30.800 --> 00:59:35.920
<v Speaker 6>can they lay charges? And how does that work in Aruba?

930
00:59:36.000 --> 00:59:38.360
<v Speaker 6>How does how does that work?

931
00:59:38.679 --> 00:59:38.880
<v Speaker 3>Well?

932
00:59:38.920 --> 00:59:42.119
<v Speaker 2>The justice system in Aruba is different from the justice

933
00:59:42.119 --> 00:59:45.519
<v Speaker 2>system we have here in America. The Aruba is a

934
00:59:45.639 --> 00:59:50.920
<v Speaker 2>Dutch protectorate, so the the Dutch laws are are far

935
00:59:51.000 --> 00:59:56.440
<v Speaker 2>different in terms of the rights that you have when

936
00:59:56.480 --> 00:59:59.920
<v Speaker 2>you are arrested. For instance, like when you are arrested

937
01:00:00.239 --> 01:00:03.639
<v Speaker 2>in Aruba, like he was not able to have counsel

938
01:00:03.840 --> 01:00:07.440
<v Speaker 2>when he was being questioned, and they were able to

939
01:00:07.519 --> 01:00:10.559
<v Speaker 2>hold him for extended periods of time and they would

940
01:00:10.599 --> 01:00:15.480
<v Speaker 2>get extensions on this detainment. So originally he was only

941
01:00:15.519 --> 01:00:18.960
<v Speaker 2>going to be detained for you know, sixty days, and

942
01:00:18.960 --> 01:00:21.760
<v Speaker 2>then they extended another thirty days, in another thirty days

943
01:00:21.880 --> 01:00:24.559
<v Speaker 2>while they tried to build a case against him, and

944
01:00:24.840 --> 01:00:29.599
<v Speaker 2>at during this time, without any physical evidence that they

945
01:00:29.639 --> 01:00:33.760
<v Speaker 2>could find, all they had was opportunity and motive and

946
01:00:33.840 --> 01:00:38.000
<v Speaker 2>with no body. Same thing with Natalie Holloway, with nobody

947
01:00:38.280 --> 01:00:42.880
<v Speaker 2>they weren't able to. It's not that they didn't want to.

948
01:00:43.159 --> 01:00:49.519
<v Speaker 2>The solicitor general, their attorney general type figure. It's not

949
01:00:49.599 --> 01:00:52.360
<v Speaker 2>that they didn't want to bring charges against him. They

950
01:00:52.360 --> 01:00:56.639
<v Speaker 2>were unable to file charges against him because the country,

951
01:00:56.719 --> 01:01:01.960
<v Speaker 2>the incial system, demanded that he be let go because

952
01:01:02.000 --> 01:01:05.239
<v Speaker 2>there was no evidence against him that they could they

953
01:01:05.280 --> 01:01:10.960
<v Speaker 2>could prove that he had done anything wrong. Yeah, yeah,

954
01:01:11.320 --> 01:01:14.440
<v Speaker 2>but what really, what really happened there? It goes so

955
01:01:14.559 --> 01:01:17.960
<v Speaker 2>much further than just that, than just the lack of evidence,

956
01:01:18.519 --> 01:01:22.880
<v Speaker 2>because what really happened there is really what I feel

957
01:01:22.920 --> 01:01:26.920
<v Speaker 2>I discovered what truly happened to Robin Gardner, and it's

958
01:01:26.960 --> 01:01:31.800
<v Speaker 2>even more shocking than what you may think was done

959
01:01:31.840 --> 01:01:32.639
<v Speaker 2>to Robin Gardner.

960
01:01:33.199 --> 01:01:37.079
<v Speaker 6>M m, well, let's just leave it at that. We

961
01:01:37.079 --> 01:01:43.079
<v Speaker 6>will leave the audience wanting more on the other side

962
01:01:43.119 --> 01:01:46.880
<v Speaker 6>of the coin here with Gabe Watson in terms of

963
01:01:47.519 --> 01:01:52.880
<v Speaker 6>evidence against him again, how did police proceed and what

964
01:01:53.079 --> 01:01:58.599
<v Speaker 6>was the success in terms of being fifiled charges against him?

965
01:01:58.760 --> 01:02:02.599
<v Speaker 2>Well, when Gabe Watson, when they when they filed charges

966
01:02:02.599 --> 01:02:08.840
<v Speaker 2>against Gabe Watson for the murder of his wife, Tina Watson,

967
01:02:10.119 --> 01:02:14.079
<v Speaker 2>he uh, he volunteered to come back to Australia to

968
01:02:14.159 --> 01:02:18.639
<v Speaker 2>face the music, and he went of his own volition,

969
01:02:18.840 --> 01:02:22.360
<v Speaker 2>not knowing that if he would ever come home, because

970
01:02:22.480 --> 01:02:24.840
<v Speaker 2>if he was convicted of murder. He could spend the

971
01:02:24.840 --> 01:02:27.800
<v Speaker 2>rest of his life behind bars in a foreign country.

972
01:02:28.679 --> 01:02:34.000
<v Speaker 6>But would sorry, would a defense lawyer advise like because

973
01:02:34.760 --> 01:02:38.000
<v Speaker 6>you know, it's like the Amanda Knox the refiled charges,

974
01:02:38.039 --> 01:02:41.400
<v Speaker 6>But any defense lawyer worth a Nichol is going to say,

975
01:02:41.719 --> 01:02:45.960
<v Speaker 6>don't bother, don't go it. Could he have gotten defense

976
01:02:46.639 --> 01:02:48.199
<v Speaker 6>advice like that if you know?

977
01:02:49.039 --> 01:02:49.519
<v Speaker 5>Or was it?

978
01:02:50.000 --> 01:02:54.599
<v Speaker 6>Did it really represent that he was doing the honorable, honest,

979
01:02:55.280 --> 01:02:57.719
<v Speaker 6>you know, something that an innocent person might do.

980
01:02:58.559 --> 01:03:02.159
<v Speaker 2>Well. What had happened was the case got reopened because

981
01:03:02.239 --> 01:03:08.079
<v Speaker 2>Tina Watson's family went to their congressman went to you know,

982
01:03:08.119 --> 01:03:11.679
<v Speaker 2>they were going trying to get anyone who had listened,

983
01:03:11.800 --> 01:03:16.039
<v Speaker 2>especially in government, to compel the Australians to open this case.

984
01:03:16.760 --> 01:03:20.039
<v Speaker 2>So there was enough. There was definitely a very strong

985
01:03:20.079 --> 01:03:23.840
<v Speaker 2>feeling that Gabe Watson said, you're gonna have to drag

986
01:03:23.920 --> 01:03:27.360
<v Speaker 2>me back, kicking and screaming, that they would have done so.

987
01:03:27.559 --> 01:03:32.239
<v Speaker 2>And he felt that there was enough evidence to prove

988
01:03:32.280 --> 01:03:36.559
<v Speaker 2>that he didn't murder her, that he was willing to

989
01:03:36.599 --> 01:03:38.119
<v Speaker 2>go back. And the fact that he was willing to

990
01:03:38.159 --> 01:03:41.000
<v Speaker 2>go back was a very very big factor in what

991
01:03:41.119 --> 01:03:45.000
<v Speaker 2>had happened because in the end, they couldn't charge him

992
01:03:45.039 --> 01:03:47.719
<v Speaker 2>with murder. The best that they could do was except

993
01:03:47.760 --> 01:03:52.000
<v Speaker 2>a plea bargain for manslaughter, and a specific type of

994
01:03:52.039 --> 01:03:59.079
<v Speaker 2>manslaughter in Australia that deemed Gabe Watson was he was negligent.

995
01:04:00.239 --> 01:04:00.920
<v Speaker 6>Homicide.

996
01:04:01.159 --> 01:04:04.360
<v Speaker 2>Well, no, that he was a bad dive buddy, okay,

997
01:04:04.440 --> 01:04:07.920
<v Speaker 2>really is what it comes down to. And so they

998
01:04:08.000 --> 01:04:11.159
<v Speaker 2>expected the family still expected that they were going to

999
01:04:11.159 --> 01:04:13.400
<v Speaker 2>throw the book at him. And I think Gabe accepted

1000
01:04:13.440 --> 01:04:17.639
<v Speaker 2>his fate, that he bore some responsibility as to what happened,

1001
01:04:18.039 --> 01:04:24.119
<v Speaker 2>because ultimately he mistook his certification for experience, and when

1002
01:04:24.119 --> 01:04:26.480
<v Speaker 2>it came down to it, he was a bad dive

1003
01:04:26.519 --> 01:04:28.760
<v Speaker 2>buddy and he was not the right person to be there,

1004
01:04:29.280 --> 01:04:33.840
<v Speaker 2>and he had the responsibility, especially in Australian under Australian law,

1005
01:04:34.079 --> 01:04:38.239
<v Speaker 2>when you undertake some sort of extreme sports or you know,

1006
01:04:38.280 --> 01:04:41.000
<v Speaker 2>anything like that with someone, you have a responsibility for

1007
01:04:41.039 --> 01:04:44.360
<v Speaker 2>their well being. And since she didn't come back, he

1008
01:04:44.440 --> 01:04:47.400
<v Speaker 2>was convicted of being a bad dive buddy and he

1009
01:04:47.480 --> 01:04:51.519
<v Speaker 2>went to jail. And what I found very interesting about

1010
01:04:51.559 --> 01:04:54.360
<v Speaker 2>this case was not so much really what happens to

1011
01:04:54.360 --> 01:04:56.079
<v Speaker 2>Gabe Watson, because I feel like I can talk about

1012
01:04:56.119 --> 01:04:58.719
<v Speaker 2>what happens to Gabe Watson and reveal what happens to him,

1013
01:04:59.559 --> 01:05:04.320
<v Speaker 2>But is how it actually informs what had happened and

1014
01:05:04.360 --> 01:05:08.239
<v Speaker 2>the investigation and really the nuances in the circumstances behind

1015
01:05:08.280 --> 01:05:11.559
<v Speaker 2>the Robin Gardner case, Because at first I thought that

1016
01:05:11.679 --> 01:05:14.760
<v Speaker 2>this was what happened to Robin Gardner, but it turns

1017
01:05:14.800 --> 01:05:19.800
<v Speaker 2>out that that's just the very the very tip of

1018
01:05:19.840 --> 01:05:22.000
<v Speaker 2>the iceberg, the very edge of the story.

1019
01:05:23.119 --> 01:05:27.880
<v Speaker 6>Wow. And with with Gabe Watson, what what is your

1020
01:05:27.920 --> 01:05:30.880
<v Speaker 6>conclusion from that that that.

1021
01:05:31.079 --> 01:05:34.239
<v Speaker 2>Gabe Watson, that Tina Watson died because she married an

1022
01:05:34.280 --> 01:05:41.280
<v Speaker 2>idiot because here was here she was she was emotionally,

1023
01:05:41.920 --> 01:05:47.679
<v Speaker 2>uh physically and mentally unprepared for this dive that she

1024
01:05:47.800 --> 01:05:53.079
<v Speaker 2>undertook in it, she took an advanced dive with little

1025
01:05:53.159 --> 01:05:56.920
<v Speaker 2>or no skills, with someone who was not able to

1026
01:05:57.280 --> 01:06:02.199
<v Speaker 2>identify the danger the dangerous situation that they were about

1027
01:06:02.239 --> 01:06:06.239
<v Speaker 2>to enter. And really, the title of the book Vanished

1028
01:06:06.239 --> 01:06:09.280
<v Speaker 2>Beauty is not just a reference to here are two

1029
01:06:09.320 --> 01:06:12.159
<v Speaker 2>beautiful women who vanished, but it has more to do

1030
01:06:12.320 --> 01:06:17.360
<v Speaker 2>with society's viewpoint of what happens. It's really the book

1031
01:06:17.400 --> 01:06:21.239
<v Speaker 2>is not just about these cases, but it's about how

1032
01:06:21.559 --> 01:06:25.639
<v Speaker 2>we react and how we perceive these cases and how

1033
01:06:25.679 --> 01:06:32.199
<v Speaker 2>we treat the whole concept of the accused, and so

1034
01:06:32.639 --> 01:06:35.079
<v Speaker 2>it's uh. And then there's another aspect to the title

1035
01:06:35.119 --> 01:06:39.199
<v Speaker 2>which goes which speaks towards what really happened to these women,

1036
01:06:40.480 --> 01:06:44.400
<v Speaker 2>but that I'll leave for the for the readers.

1037
01:06:45.039 --> 01:06:48.599
<v Speaker 6>Oh great, Yeah, it's a very very interesting uh. And

1038
01:06:48.599 --> 01:06:51.199
<v Speaker 6>then I'm I was interested to hear your conclusion on

1039
01:06:51.280 --> 01:06:55.480
<v Speaker 6>Gabe Watson too, because again, you know, throughout the story

1040
01:06:55.599 --> 01:06:59.519
<v Speaker 6>you don't know if it's a lot more on the

1041
01:06:59.639 --> 01:07:03.960
<v Speaker 6>fario than that. And in terms of his motive, again

1042
01:07:04.320 --> 01:07:07.840
<v Speaker 6>he has the insurance policy. You do allude to that

1043
01:07:07.880 --> 01:07:12.800
<v Speaker 6>he did do this rescue before seventy five feet and

1044
01:07:12.840 --> 01:07:15.800
<v Speaker 6>then just leave the reader to decide is this guy

1045
01:07:15.840 --> 01:07:18.320
<v Speaker 6>guilty or not? And so you leave it up up

1046
01:07:18.320 --> 01:07:21.360
<v Speaker 6>in the air, and I applaud you for that, and

1047
01:07:21.400 --> 01:07:27.239
<v Speaker 6>I'm you know, I think the audience has been titillated

1048
01:07:27.320 --> 01:07:31.280
<v Speaker 6>here in terms of what exactly Robin Gardner, what was

1049
01:07:31.320 --> 01:07:34.760
<v Speaker 6>she up to? And more about Gary ge Ordonald because

1050
01:07:34.800 --> 01:07:38.639
<v Speaker 6>obviously we couldn't cover everything of this guy's wacky character.

1051
01:07:38.800 --> 01:07:42.800
<v Speaker 6>So something for the audience to look forward to in

1052
01:07:43.320 --> 01:07:45.760
<v Speaker 6>reading Vanish Beauty so I want to thank you for

1053
01:07:45.960 --> 01:07:50.320
<v Speaker 6>a very engaging interview and keeping the mystery alive to

1054
01:07:50.400 --> 01:07:53.360
<v Speaker 6>this book for sure, certainly, Yeah.

1055
01:07:53.239 --> 01:07:55.199
<v Speaker 2>It was my absolute pleasure.

1056
01:07:56.199 --> 01:07:57.639
<v Speaker 6>Well, I want to thank you very much and I

1057
01:07:57.679 --> 01:07:59.760
<v Speaker 6>hope to have you back on again talking about another

1058
01:07:59.760 --> 01:08:02.800
<v Speaker 6>one her fine books. And again, thank you very much

1059
01:08:02.800 --> 01:08:05.119
<v Speaker 6>for this interview, and good night.

1060
01:08:10.800 --> 01:08:13.199
<v Speaker 2>M h yeah, mm hmm