Speaker 1: Oh hey, it's that lady in the park just staring
Speaker 1: at pigeons, trying to imagine what's on their minds. Ali
Speaker 1: warred back with more ologies to gulp into your mouth
Speaker 1: pouch as we explore and just get to love pelicans.
Speaker 1: So I'm going to keep this intro swift as I can.
Speaker 1: I just want to say thank you to everyone on
Speaker 1: Patreon supporting this show. Thanks to everyone rating and subscribing,
Speaker 1: sharing the show, leaving reviews like this week, Blaise Fowler says,
Speaker 1: You're my kind of weirdo. I'm an introvert and with you,
Speaker 1: I'm vicariously living my best extroverted life. Also, Joe Ron
Speaker 1: thirty three, your review about your grandson launching off of
Speaker 1: A the day was a special treat. Also, Bobby Gooling,
Speaker 1: I swear I'm trying to swear less often sort of
Speaker 1: but not really anyway. Okay, pelicanology. Others have used this
Speaker 1: word before, so we're using it now. So pelican seems
Speaker 1: to come from Pelicus, which is the Greek for acts
Speaker 1: because of the bird's long axe. Handily, Bill, so is
Speaker 1: there anything more badass than your name being ax face?
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 1: I don't think So anyway, I started following this ologists
Speaker 1: recently on Twitter because of a really, really wonderful movement
Speaker 1: called Black Birders Week, and Blackbirder's Week officially kicked off
Speaker 1: May thirty first. It runs through June fifth, with hashtags
Speaker 1: like birding while black, ask a birder, post a bird,
Speaker 1: black woman who bird? And It was launched in part
Speaker 1: as a reaction to an event that occurred in Central
Speaker 1: Park on Memorial Day. An Autobond board member and birdwatcher,
Speaker 1: Christian Cooper, was threatened by a dog owner who tried
Speaker 1: to use systemic racism as a weapon. Essentially, you likely
Speaker 1: saw it on the news. It was a pretty painful
Speaker 1: reminder of the realities that they face in the field.
Speaker 1: Black biologists and naturalists face racism and threats and even
Speaker 1: violence for just enjoying nature. Black lives matter, period, Black
Speaker 1: scientists matter. This conversation matters, and this conversation has been
Speaker 1: really prevalent for so long among black naturalists, and a
Speaker 1: lot of white folks just had no idea this was
Speaker 1: even a thing. I had no idea how much privilege
Speaker 1: plays into choosing a job that requires fieldwork or going
Speaker 1: out to a park or on a hike or bird
Speaker 1: watching like Christian was doing. So enter Blackbird's Week hashtag
Speaker 1: Blackbirder's Week.
Speaker 2: It's amazing.
Speaker 1: It's opening eyes to birds and to systemic racism we
Speaker 1: can continue to try to understand and dismantle. So Blackbird's
Speaker 1: Week has already been a huge giant success. The group
Speaker 1: who organized it is black af in Stem. They've gained
Speaker 1: almost twenty thousand followers in a week. You can follow
Speaker 1: them at black af in Stem follow everyone they follow.
Speaker 1: There have been write ups and newspapers on Blackbird's Week.
Speaker 1: Twitter feeds have been a buffet of bird photos and
Speaker 1: facts and new faces to follow. So I started following
Speaker 1: the ologies recently and her pinned tweet is a video
Speaker 1: of what appears to be tiny plucked chickens that are dancing,
Speaker 1: but they are actually squawking pelican ands, and I love them.
Speaker 1: So I messaged her three words in all caps, let's
Speaker 1: talk elegance, as one does in a professional correspondence, and
Speaker 1: her response was I can talk about dinosaur f loofs
Speaker 1: all day. So she grew up in La not far
Speaker 1: from where I live now, and is currently getting her
Speaker 1: PhD at the University of Louisiana. At Lafayette studying environmental
Speaker 1: and evolutionary biology, looking at habitats and health of the
Speaker 1: brown pelican. So we hopped on the horn to chat
Speaker 1: about bird nerds and big bills and saggy sacks and
Speaker 1: porcupine espionage, flags, limp flam sandals, ice cream, sandwiches, boats, wingspans,
Speaker 1: spine illusions, dive bombs, and more. So open your ears
Speaker 1: and mouth pouches for pelicanologists, Jueta Martinez, have you ever
Speaker 1: been like there needs to be a Pelicanology episode?
Speaker 2: I mean on the inside, like very deep.
Speaker 1: Maybe you would know that you're going to know this
Speaker 1: better than I would. Are you a pelicanologist? Have you
Speaker 1: ever used that word?
Speaker 2: I actually have never used that word, But starting from today,
Speaker 2: I'm actually going to change my Twitter bio.
Speaker 1: I checked and she changed her Twitter bio to read
Speaker 1: PhD student hashtag dinosaur flops equals brown pelicans plus Pelicanology.
Speaker 1: I was so excited to talk about pelicans with you,
Speaker 1: and I went to go look to see, like what
Speaker 1: the genus was of pelicans.
Speaker 2: Yeah, actually the genus is Pelicanus. Okay, yeah, Pelicanus Pelicanus.
Speaker 1: I mean it has a ring to it, doesn't it though, Yeah, how.
Speaker 2: Have you been studying pelicans? So this year would be
Speaker 2: my third year, and how did you how did you
Speaker 2: get into it?
Speaker 1: Have you always been into birds or has it been
Speaker 1: wildlife in general?
Speaker 2: Yeah, so it's always been wildlife, And I'm actually like
Speaker 2: prettying you into the bird world. I would say.
Speaker 3: I worked with quite a few different species, from like
Speaker 3: shrimp to microbes, and then I switched to frogs, went
Speaker 3: back to porcupines what and then worked with butterflies for
Speaker 3: a summer, and then I worked with fifth to sixth
Speaker 3: graders with Samitteo outdoor Ed and then I.
Speaker 1: Think if sixth graders is just like a like another
Speaker 1: kind of creature.
Speaker 2: Sorry, I did not see.
Speaker 3: And then I ended up working for Richardson Bay Audubon
Speaker 3: in the Bay Area, and that's what really got.
Speaker 2: Me into birds. I knew.
Speaker 3: I went to go to grad school and I was
Speaker 3: pretty set on getting my PhD. And my advisor which
Speaker 3: he's my advisor now, had made this post about brown.
Speaker 2: Pelicans and it just clicked, and I was like, I
Speaker 2: have to apply.
Speaker 3: Honestly, I feel like it was luck because we both clicked,
Speaker 3: and then I was really interested in the project and
Speaker 3: everything that he sought out to do with the pelicans
Speaker 3: I had already done prior.
Speaker 1: Oh well that's handy. So what was the post that
Speaker 1: she saw?
Speaker 3: So it started off talking about restoration, and what restoration
Speaker 3: means is we're trying to create habitat in a way
Speaker 3: that it was in the past. And I was currently
Speaker 3: working on a restoration project and I had worked on
Speaker 3: restoration projects prior to that, and it was also using
Speaker 3: something called camera traps, and camera traps are basically motion
Speaker 3: censored camera is that normally hunters would use, but we're
Speaker 3: now using it to basically.
Speaker 2: Spy on brown pelicans and their babies.
Speaker 3: And I had used camera traps to also spy on
Speaker 3: porcupines two years earlier. I like, I know, so nowadays,
Speaker 3: like all these things are so like common to me.
Speaker 2: It's my everyday life. So I love telling my people, like, wait,
Speaker 2: that's not normal, Jumita.
Speaker 1: I just love the idea that there's a porcupine who's like,
Speaker 1: I swear someone's spying on us, and their partner's like,
Speaker 1: no one's spying on us.
Speaker 2: You need to calm down.
Speaker 1: And meanwhile, you're there like in a bush, just like
Speaker 1: looking at what they're doing, being like we are spying
Speaker 1: on you.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we get some pretty cool shots of them just
Speaker 3: looking really weird at the camera, like what is that
Speaker 3: thing doing there?
Speaker 1: Just admiring you. So before heading to Louisiana to become
Speaker 1: a doctoral fellow, Juta got her bachelor's in zoology with
Speaker 1: a minor in wildlife management from Humboldt State University.
Speaker 3: I was very adamant that I was going to become
Speaker 3: a veterinarian up until I really learned what it took
Speaker 3: to be a veterinarian and how much blood was involved
Speaker 3: mm hmm, and I realized I'm too screamish for it.
Speaker 2: So I was like, oh, I have to go down
Speaker 2: the research route now.
Speaker 3: And the NSFREU program was the first experience that I
Speaker 3: had with any kind of science ever, and that really
Speaker 3: was like my foundation.
Speaker 1: Okay, if you're like huh. NSFRU is a National Science
Speaker 1: Foundation Research Experiences for Undergraduates program which pairs undergrads with
Speaker 1: different research programs, and it also gives the undergrads a
Speaker 1: stipend and in some cases assistance with travel or housing.
Speaker 1: So that is the NSFREU.
Speaker 3: Program and with the NSFRU program, which all undergrads, I
Speaker 3: highly recommend out there for you guys to apply, and
Speaker 3: I was basically doing environmental toxicology work. So that was
Speaker 3: my beginning, but it gave me a really good foot
Speaker 3: in the door and understanding like what I really liked
Speaker 3: about science and what I wasn't so interested in but
Speaker 3: was still really important, such as lab work. I definitely
Speaker 3: enjoyed the field aspect a little more than I did
Speaker 3: the lab work.
Speaker 1: As a field tech, she gathered data and samples and
Speaker 1: studied everything from frog calls to those porcupines to what
Speaker 1: lives in shrimp cuts, which in one case included antibiotic
Speaker 1: resistant bacteria as she discovered in her junior year.
Speaker 3: Which actually landed me my first publication, which was wild
Speaker 3: because never in a million years if anyone told me
Speaker 3: that would happen, I'd be like, no, there's no way.
Speaker 2: That's amazing. How did you celebrate?
Speaker 3: I actually, I'm pretty sure I worked like a full
Speaker 3: shift that so I don't think I actually celebrated, Like
Speaker 3: now that I'm looking back, I don't think I ever
Speaker 3: like I internally celebrated, even though I knew it.
Speaker 2: Was a big deal.
Speaker 1: Yeah you can still there's like no statute of limitations
Speaker 1: on celebrating. You can get a piece of cake tonight
Speaker 1: if you want to.
Speaker 2: Well, I guess I have to do it now.
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, I looked it up in this first paper
Speaker 1: published remember still as an undergrad, is called Exposure of
Speaker 1: the grass shrimp Palao Monetes pugio to anti microbial compounds,
Speaker 1: Effects associated vibryobacterial density and development of antibatic resistance. It
Speaker 1: was published in October twenty fourteen. It is never too
Speaker 1: late for cake.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was a very proud moment for sure. That
Speaker 3: was what I knew. I definitely wanted to pursue this path.
Speaker 3: And I ended up working with porcupines right after that
Speaker 3: for two years. And then I ended up working with
Speaker 3: my first like restoration project after graduating from my undergrad
Speaker 3: and that was with the island marble butterfly. And they're
Speaker 3: endemic to this one little island off the coast of
Speaker 3: Washington called San Juan and I got to spend a
Speaker 3: whole summer on that island basically rearing butterfly. A.
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, that's a dream, like an actual dream.
Speaker 2: It was. It was pretty great.
Speaker 1: What were you like as a kid, were you like
Speaker 1: an indoor bookworm. Were you outside trumping around getting your
Speaker 1: feet money?
Speaker 3: My parents thought there was something wrong with me because
Speaker 3: all I wanted to do was watch snails, little suckers
Speaker 3: like I had like a weird fascination with like snails,
Speaker 3: and at one part of one point in my life,
Speaker 3: I wanted an ant farm. I was basically outdoors all
Speaker 3: the time, trying to basically observing wildlife as many as
Speaker 3: I could in Silver Lake, which is not.
Speaker 2: The most wildlife friendly area, as you know, so I
Speaker 2: had to get really creative with what I could find
Speaker 2: in the yard.
Speaker 1: So from La to La Los Angeles to Louisiana, from
Speaker 1: a childhood gazing its nails to getting a PhD. In
Speaker 1: pelicans and now what about brown pelicans? First off, stupidquestion,
Speaker 1: what is a pelican? Is a pelican only the kind
Speaker 1: that have the purse attached to their face.
Speaker 3: I've never actually heard someone say that. That is awesome.
Speaker 3: I love that description of it.
Speaker 2: So a handbag for a mouth they do, that is
Speaker 2: a good one. I love it.
Speaker 3: Yes, So all pelicans have a purse, which is better
Speaker 3: known as a googl ar pouch, and that's what helps
Speaker 3: them survive.
Speaker 2: That is how they catch their food.
Speaker 1: Gool art means throat in Latin. So what google ark
Speaker 1: pouch is a pelican face purse, That's what it is.
Speaker 2: Brown pelicans specifically actually plunge dive, so from about thirty
Speaker 2: feet or so up in the air, they will spot
Speaker 2: a school of fish and then just dive down and
Speaker 2: use that pouch to basically scoop up all the fish.
Speaker 2: It's in my purse.
Speaker 1: And what do they do with all the water that
Speaker 1: they also scoop up?
Speaker 3: So if there's other birds around, such as gulls that
Speaker 3: try to steal the fish from their mouths, they will
Speaker 3: just slightly open their build and let the water like
Speaker 3: seep out until there's just fish in their pouch.
Speaker 1: Why do they need so many fish? This is what
Speaker 1: I can't understand because they're kind of big birds, right,
Speaker 1: But other big birds they catch a fish, they catch
Speaker 1: a thing at a time. But pelicans are like in it.
Speaker 1: I feel like they have the best equipment in the game. Like,
Speaker 1: why do they need to catch so much fish?
Speaker 3: I would think it depends on the season. So if
Speaker 3: they're trying to feed their chicks, they have about a
Speaker 3: maximum of three chicks. So if you think about a
Speaker 3: pelican they're about sixteen pounds, which is quite a bit
Speaker 3: of weight. And on top of that, they have to
Speaker 3: feed themselves have enough energy to fly around and catch
Speaker 3: the fish, but then they also have one to three
Speaker 3: mouths to feed. They're going to need quite a bit
Speaker 3: of fish for that. And these pelicans are born completely
Speaker 3: naked and with their eyes shut.
Speaker 2: I'm naked, aren't.
Speaker 3: So they're completely reliant on their parents for quite a
Speaker 3: few months.
Speaker 1: And then what about their wingspan? Because the sixteen pound
Speaker 1: bird's pretty big? How big are the wings to keep
Speaker 1: it aloft?
Speaker 2: It's about six feet, which is taller than me. Oh
Speaker 2: that's huge. Yeah, that's like a condor size.
Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, it's a good social distancing size.
Speaker 2: Oh my god. That needs to be your new campaign.
Speaker 1: Is everyone's stay one pelican wingspan away from each gends?
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, so sixteen pounds six feet?
Speaker 4: Because are they all inland or I mean, are they
Speaker 4: all golf or or coastal or are they inland too?
Speaker 3: So we have two species in North America. We have
Speaker 3: the brown pelican and the white pelican. And actually the
Speaker 3: brown pelican is smaller than the white pelican about ten
Speaker 3: pounds or so. And the pelican stays on the coastline,
Speaker 3: like up and down the West coast and then throughout
Speaker 3: the Gulf of Mexico and up to North Carolina Ish
Speaker 3: and the white pelicans, on the other hand, you can't
Speaker 3: see them on the coast, but they breed inland.
Speaker 2: How many pelican species are there in the world. I
Speaker 2: looked it up. There are eight, in case that ever
Speaker 2: comes up in a game of pelican trivia.
Speaker 1: And now you call them flute dinosaurs, dinosaur.
Speaker 2: Fluff, dinosaur blues, aren't they really funzy? Okay? So there's
Speaker 2: like this middle stage.
Speaker 3: They're born naked and then they start getting these little
Speaker 3: pin feathers and they get their down feathers first, and
Speaker 3: that down feather is what sparked the hashtag. So down
Speaker 3: feather is the insulating part of their body and it's
Speaker 3: really soft and fluty. And so when you're holding a
Speaker 3: kind of ba repelican that just has down feathers, they're
Speaker 3: pretty fluefy and I feel very lucky.
Speaker 2: So you've gotten to hold them. Yes, So we have
Speaker 2: a project because.
Speaker 3: Louisiana is losing land at a very rapid rate because
Speaker 3: it's sinking and the same level is rising. So these
Speaker 3: islands that are perfect habitats for these pelicans to raise
Speaker 3: their youngs are actually getting overtopped and just completely disappearing.
Speaker 3: We don't really understand what happens to pelicans once their
Speaker 3: islands disappear, because their instinct is to come back to
Speaker 3: the same islands that they were born on. And so
Speaker 3: what I've been doing is I am putting leg bands
Speaker 3: on these pelicans so that future grad students, which I'm graduated,
Speaker 3: are able to go back and track these bands and
Speaker 3: hopefully we'll get a better understanding of where they moved to.
Speaker 1: So apparently only thirty percent of pelicans survive their first
Speaker 1: year of life. Only two percent make it to age ten,
Speaker 1: but some some have been known to live until their forties.
Speaker 2: So some are out there.
Speaker 1: There's a gen X Pelican listening to britpop. But how
Speaker 1: do they tell who's who?
Speaker 3: So my lab does orange bands, and other labs that
Speaker 3: study pelicans use different color bands, and these color bands
Speaker 3: are really large, so we can see them from really
Speaker 3: far away without having to disturb the birds.
Speaker 2: Oh that's nice.
Speaker 1: When I was looking at baby pelicans on your Twitter,
Speaker 1: I myself had an impulse to want to give them
Speaker 1: one tiny kiss on their heads.
Speaker 2: Is that a normal impulse for a person, I would
Speaker 2: say yes.
Speaker 3: But if you ever come down to Louisiana and come
Speaker 3: out to the islands with me, I think you will
Speaker 3: be satisfied just by holding them, because I will say,
Speaker 3: they might be flufy, but they're also very stinky. So
Speaker 3: a hug a hug is as far as I usually
Speaker 3: want to go with it.
Speaker 2: That's good.
Speaker 1: I know that it is like not a good idea
Speaker 1: to put my mouth on wildlife. For the wildlife's sake,
Speaker 1: Do not put your mouth on wildlife. The wildlife does
Speaker 1: not want you to. Also, I looked at the flufes
Speaker 1: and they look like what would come out of the dryer,
Speaker 1: like in the lint hatch after washing a load of
Speaker 1: brand new fluey towels. So picture lintball but with big, clappy,
Speaker 1: flappy face parts. But when they're born, they are indeed featherless.
Speaker 1: They look like little alive frozen chickens. Looks so cute,
Speaker 1: so cute, I can't handle it.
Speaker 2: And the gular pouch or the purse is so tiny
Speaker 2: on the baby picks and they're just oh my gosh.
Speaker 2: It gets me every.
Speaker 1: Time when you're talking about doing restoration work to make
Speaker 1: sure that they have a home that they can come
Speaker 1: back to, or that they have habitat that they can inhabit.
Speaker 1: How do you do that if you're up against things
Speaker 1: like sea levels rising and like land sinking?
Speaker 2: What do you do? So right now Louisiana's being restored,
Speaker 2: but not by me.
Speaker 3: They actually have agencies such as the Coastal Protection and
Speaker 3: Restoration Act and different groups of people that come out
Speaker 3: here and basically perform something called dredging. So they put
Speaker 3: in these pipes basically under the ocean level, and what
Speaker 3: they do is they pump a bunch of sediments from
Speaker 3: the ocean floor.
Speaker 2: Onto these islands.
Speaker 3: WHOA, So we're basically just building land from the ocean floor.
Speaker 2: We're just putting it up. And these pipes go for miles.
Speaker 2: And the latest restoration project, I believe, took about five
Speaker 2: months to complete. Five months. Yes, they started in yeah, right,
Speaker 2: But there's other restoration projects that took two years, so
Speaker 2: this was a pretty quick one. Five months.
Speaker 1: Man, I have laundry that I haven't done in five months,
Speaker 1: Like I have home projects that I have not done
Speaker 1: in five months. To build whole islands when you are
Speaker 1: tracking then I mean, can you see on a year
Speaker 1: to year basis any any change or improvement.
Speaker 3: Yes, So some islands have been restored and some have not.
Speaker 3: And what my research aims to do is to compare
Speaker 3: the Pelican populations on these two different sets of islands
Speaker 3: across coastal Louisiana. And our preliminary data is telling us
Speaker 3: that there is a larger population on restored island, which
Speaker 3: means the restoration is working and the billions.
Speaker 2: Of dollars is not being wasted. Yeah.
Speaker 3: And we also found that chicks are more likely to
Speaker 3: reach that age where they can fly away and fend
Speaker 3: for themselves on restored islands versus those that are born
Speaker 3: on restored islands, which is really helpful because no one's
Speaker 3: actually looked at that yet.
Speaker 1: How did you kind of start to discover that. Was
Speaker 1: there a moment when you were crunching data where you
Speaker 1: started to say, like, oh wait a second, I'm seeing
Speaker 1: a difference here.
Speaker 3: Yeah, So that was just one of my questions that
Speaker 3: I had because I thought it would be interesting to
Speaker 3: see how restoration affects these populations, because when you're restoring
Speaker 3: an island, you're changing the habitat completely from all the
Speaker 3: different insects I might be on it, and the different plants,
Speaker 3: because when they deposit all this sediment from the seafloor,
Speaker 3: you're burying any vegetation that was there priorca This vegetation
Speaker 3: is very important for the pelicans to build a nest on.
Speaker 3: My hypothesis was that restored islands would be a better
Speaker 3: nesting ground for these pelicans, and so far the data
Speaker 3: shows that.
Speaker 2: That must have been an amazing discovery. Yeah, I'm really
Speaker 2: excited about it. I'm excited for the pelicans too, Okay,
Speaker 2: with good reason. This blew my mind.
Speaker 3: Because this potentially gives them a fighting chance in the future.
Speaker 3: We know how to save their nesting habitats.
Speaker 2: How are their numbers like? When?
Speaker 1: When did they start to maybe take a dip?
Speaker 3: So by nineteen sixty three, brown pelicans were completely extinct
Speaker 3: from the state of Louisiana.
Speaker 2: Yes, due to DDT. So if they're if they keep
Speaker 2: laying eggs and the eggs keep getting crushed, or if
Speaker 2: the nest keeps failing, they'll actually leave the area. That's it.
Speaker 2: I'm out of here, oh man.
Speaker 3: And a brown pelican is a state bird. So for
Speaker 3: the state to not have brown pelicans. Did it really
Speaker 3: make sense?
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's aye.
Speaker 3: There's so there was this huge push to re establish
Speaker 3: the population here, and the way that they did it
Speaker 3: was they actually brought a little over one thousand brown
Speaker 3: pelican chicks from Florida, so all of the pelicans are
Speaker 3: for the most part, all of the pelicans in Louisiana
Speaker 3: right now are descendants of the one thousand or so
Speaker 3: Florida population.
Speaker 2: That is nuts.
Speaker 1: So they were Louisiana is like, we either have to
Speaker 1: change the state bird or we have to get more
Speaker 1: pelicans in here immediately.
Speaker 3: People, yes, and they did the ladder, which I'm glad
Speaker 3: to say that it was a huge success and it
Speaker 3: took a lot of effort and I'm so happy that
Speaker 3: everyone involved like did their part. And right now we're
Speaker 3: just trying to maintain their population and make sure it
Speaker 3: doesn't like decrease anymore. And they're doing pretty good right now.
Speaker 3: Their numbers could be a little bit better. It also
Speaker 3: depends on the fishery, so if there's less fish, less
Speaker 3: chicks are likely to survive and therefore their population isn't
Speaker 3: going to grow as well.
Speaker 1: Okay, so what happens if you take a Florida pelican
Speaker 1: and you move it to Louisiana. What if they don't
Speaker 1: like Louisiana's fish menu. Well, Jueta is clabbing with the
Speaker 1: Nelson Lab at the University of Louisiana to figure out
Speaker 1: their favorite fish, and it turns out their diet is
Speaker 1: ninety eight percent men Hayden, which is a silvery forked
Speaker 1: tail oily filter feeding fish. Now, they're also called bugheads
Speaker 1: because of a parasitic isopod that eats it takes over
Speaker 1: for its tongue. The world is crazy, but men hayden
Speaker 1: are a staple in a lot of wildlife diets. So
Speaker 1: protecting this fish protects the pelicans as well as other
Speaker 1: sea and air critters that kind of pull.
Speaker 2: Up a seat to this feast that is a school
Speaker 2: of man hayden.
Speaker 1: How can they see from this guy? I mean, I
Speaker 1: realize they're pelicans. They're very good at this. But like
Speaker 1: they're cruising along, right, they have this thing flapping in
Speaker 1: the wind. Their face is flapping around. I'm picturing it,
Speaker 1: but it actually gets tucked, right, I.
Speaker 3: Don't I don't know if tucked is the word, I
Speaker 3: would it's not necessarily.
Speaker 1: Swaying like I'm picturing get like a like a windbreaker.
Speaker 1: I don't know why, Like I'm trying to picture like
Speaker 1: what it feels like? Is it like leather or denim
Speaker 1: or skin? These are questions that one can ask a pelicanologist.
Speaker 2: What do their bills or that pouch? Like what is it?
Speaker 1: Do you have you ever touched it? Like what does
Speaker 1: it feel like?
Speaker 2: It basically feels like saggy skin, like extremely saggy and rikle,
Speaker 2: and it's really flexible. That seems so cute.
Speaker 1: There has to be like an animated pelican that gets
Speaker 1: it wrong or right. How do you feel about pelicans
Speaker 1: in like pop culture?
Speaker 2: I mean I've seen like pick art photos of the.
Speaker 3: And I'm like they try to get the pouch right,
Speaker 3: but it just looks like a new shape. But in
Speaker 3: Louisiana especially, I think most people really value the pelican.
Speaker 3: Like we could find them on our basketball team, the.
Speaker 2: Push Temple here. The Pelicans number five in the NBA
Speaker 2: at fast break points favorites. I really like Howdy States
Speaker 2: just really cherishes the brown pelican.
Speaker 1: In case you ever need to brag about a Pelican,
Speaker 1: just know that they can dive bomb fish at forty
Speaker 1: miles an hour, and their beaks, which have been unchanged
Speaker 1: for like thirty million years, slice the water to handle
Speaker 1: that speed and that velocity, and that pouch I read
Speaker 1: acts like a little parachute underwater to help slow them down.
Speaker 1: So essentially they're fighter jets, but cooler and smellier.
Speaker 2: And what are their nests like?
Speaker 3: So their nests they prefer to nest on taller shrubs
Speaker 3: because Louisiana floods quite often, so if they're on like
Speaker 3: taller vegetation, the chances of their nest flooding is smaller,
Speaker 3: and they tend to use sticks. So they're maybe like
Speaker 3: two and a half feet in diameter, pretty large nests,
Speaker 3: maybe a little smaller now.
Speaker 2: I'm trying to think. I've never actually measured of pelican nests,
Speaker 2: but they're pretty big.
Speaker 3: We're currently using drones to see we can get accurate
Speaker 3: nest counts, and you can definitely see the nests from
Speaker 3: a drone.
Speaker 1: Oh, what is it like working in the field. You
Speaker 1: have to suit up and like full rubber waiters. What
Speaker 1: is your gear like if you are a pelicanologist?
Speaker 3: Okay, when I first was starting, I like refuse to
Speaker 3: wade in from the boat a minute. We have enough light,
Speaker 3: We get in the boat, drive an hour to our
Speaker 3: field site. Most of our field sides are kind of far,
Speaker 3: and we have to park the boat offshore because the
Speaker 3: tides can go out and then our boat will get
Speaker 3: stuck on land, which has happened. It's not pleasant because
Speaker 3: Louisiana only has one tide, so for your boat to
Speaker 3: get unstuck, it's basically takes twenty four hours.
Speaker 2: This is called a diurnal tide. What weird? Okay, so
Speaker 2: what happened?
Speaker 3: Oh no, So we had to call the water sheriff.
Speaker 3: Oh it gets worse. Oh no, So the water shaff comes.
Speaker 3: He puts the rope on our boat. His boat isn't
Speaker 3: big enough or strong enough to get our boat out
Speaker 3: of the sand.
Speaker 2: The sun is setting really fast now and we're completely
Speaker 2: out of light. At this point, you're going when a
Speaker 2: tug boat comes and both of them together got our
Speaker 2: boat out. But our boat didn't have any lights. Oh no,
Speaker 2: and it's kitsch black, so we had one. We had
Speaker 2: no idea where we're going because we can't see anything.
Speaker 2: So the boat happened to have a handlight.
Speaker 3: So for about an hour and a half I had
Speaker 3: to hold the handlight up so the field tech who
Speaker 3: was driving the boat could follow the sheriff back to
Speaker 3: dry land.
Speaker 2: How is the boat? What kind of boat is it?
Speaker 2: This boat was okay, this boat was actually sixteen feet
Speaker 2: and it's the safety boat for research vessel. Oh my god,
Speaker 2: so it's kind of not a real boat. Oh no,
Speaker 2: you're on a lifeboat.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Basically we have since upgraded to a real boat though,
Speaker 2: so I'm pretty happy about that. Oh my god.
Speaker 1: Okay, so you were like I don't want to wait
Speaker 1: in from the boat. Have you changed methods?
Speaker 2: Now? Are you like it's worth it just to wait
Speaker 2: in from the boat? Oh? Yeah, okay.
Speaker 3: Wait, so I would wait and I would just wear
Speaker 3: waiters versus now I just go in chockos like I
Speaker 3: just don't care anymore.
Speaker 2: What is Choco? Wait? Sorry, what's a Choco? Wait? You've
Speaker 2: never heard of Choco's? No? No, they sound delicious, But
Speaker 2: no they don't. They're a sandal brand. I know. I didn't.
Speaker 2: I've heard of crocs. They're not crocs though, right.
Speaker 3: No, I have to send you a pair of chacos now,
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, where you live in Los Angeles?
Speaker 2: Oh my god, I'm gonna look this up. What is it? You?
Speaker 1: A pair of chacos the one that deserves them. I
Speaker 1: don't know what they are. Oh okay, these are like tivas,
Speaker 1: but apparently more durable and badass. And they were invented
Speaker 1: for river sports and a lot of cool scientists where
Speaker 1: them in the field, and I went down a rabbit
Speaker 1: hole on their site. Just FYI just imagining myself in
Speaker 1: chacos a summer evening, trying to distinguish what frogs are
Speaker 1: singing into the dust.
Speaker 2: I've never heard them.
Speaker 1: Then they sound like Choco tacos, which I have had.
Speaker 2: Have you ever had a Choco taco? No?
Speaker 1: Oh my god, Okay, a Chaco taco is like a
Speaker 1: it's like an ice cream sandwich, but it's in a
Speaker 1: waffle shell that looks like a taco, and then inside
Speaker 1: there's ice cream and then it's covered in chocolate. It's
Speaker 1: a Choco taco. WHOA, that's a lot used to Choco taco. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'll send you Choco's the.
Speaker 2: Shoes and you sent me Chaco. Sorry, this is now
Speaker 2: an episode on what field Biole'll just wear? I apologize.
Speaker 1: I had questions, so now you just have like an
Speaker 1: amphibious shoe that you're like, I'm going in.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: They are the most hearty issue, Like I love hiking
Speaker 3: in them, swimming in them.
Speaker 2: I take them everywhere with me. Basically they last a
Speaker 2: really long time and they dry really fast. Oh that's
Speaker 2: amazing shoes.
Speaker 4: So you have now adjusted where you are, you know,
Speaker 4: like how to get in, how to get out.
Speaker 2: Is summer a big field work time for you or
Speaker 2: is it spring? Yeah?
Speaker 3: So we basically work from February through the end of July.
Speaker 3: Oh my god, it's pretty long, especially if you're taking classes,
Speaker 3: which I just took my last class ever this past semester.
Speaker 2: Pretty excited about it.
Speaker 1: She will be pelicanologist doctor Martinez in about five semesters
Speaker 1: for two and a half years. We're talking about birding. Now,
Speaker 1: you said that you weren't necessarily a burder before this,
Speaker 1: but pelican watching has kind of opened you up to
Speaker 1: the world of birding, right.
Speaker 2: Yes, that's where basically started.
Speaker 3: And then after COVID happened, I kind of became this amateur.
Speaker 2: Birder, Like I.
Speaker 3: Actually go out with my binos and my field guide
Speaker 3: and I really try to identify these birds and it's
Speaker 3: so much fun and I just never did it before
Speaker 3: because I don't know what I was doing with my bide.
Speaker 1: I mean, birding is, from what I understand, like addictive
Speaker 1: in the way that like a really great game can be.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: I actually woke up at six thirty because somebody on
Speaker 3: E Birds said they saw painted bunting at this one
Speaker 3: place at six thirty. So I was like, okay, as
Speaker 3: long as I like go at six thirty, you know,
Speaker 3: get there around that time and go to this one place,
Speaker 3: I totally see it.
Speaker 2: It's totally gonna be there. And it was not. I
Speaker 2: walked around the whole trail, couldn't find it. And actually
Speaker 2: two weeks ago, I think I walked the same trail
Speaker 2: with a couple of isolating friends and my housemate and
Speaker 2: we found it. You did yeah randomly around noon, not
Speaker 2: six am. It was new oh man, And it was
Speaker 2: just sitting there singing, and it was the best moment.
Speaker 1: What does that feel like when you realize it that's
Speaker 1: the bird that you've been looking for, like when you
Speaker 1: get a win like that.
Speaker 3: I screamed and scared my housemaids. I like ran out
Speaker 3: of the living room, jumping, screaming, like clapping my hands
Speaker 3: and it was the best feel like.
Speaker 4: Do you take pictures or do you look through binoculars?
Speaker 4: What's the way to do it?
Speaker 3: I do both, but I mostly prefer to take photos
Speaker 3: because I can definitely have a nice, solid id and
Speaker 3: I'm not that great of a bird yet, so I
Speaker 3: can't just be like, oh, it's totally that. So I
Speaker 3: prefer to take photos. So I have some evidence.
Speaker 1: My sister just started to do some birding, and I
Speaker 1: can tell you're like, her texts start to be all
Speaker 1: bird pictures and you're.
Speaker 3: Like, nice, Oh my gosh, yay, team bird over here.
Speaker 1: So my sister Celeste is starting to get into bird
Speaker 1: IDs in this past year. My friend Sarah has picked
Speaker 1: it up too. She is birdie girl La on Instagram.
Speaker 1: She takes great pictures and as white women, we have
Speaker 1: a different and a privileged experience of birding that black
Speaker 1: people do not. And hashtag Black Birders Week is making
Speaker 1: that discussion herd.
Speaker 3: So basically, this entire week is dedicated to amplifying and
Speaker 3: basically posting on Twitter, Instagram, and even some live streams sessions.
Speaker 3: We are trying to showcase that black people are utilizing
Speaker 3: outdoor spaces and these spaces should be safe.
Speaker 2: For everyone, including us.
Speaker 3: The event that sorry this was there was a black
Speaker 3: burder who was just standing up for the law, and
Speaker 3: the person that he asked to just follow the rules
Speaker 3: basically utilized his race against him. And we just wanted
Speaker 3: to showcase that there are black burders as well as
Speaker 3: major enthusiasts and naturalists out there who utilize the space.
Speaker 3: And we hope that from other people seeing us out
Speaker 3: here that this will just be normalized and things that
Speaker 3: occurred with that incident don't happen in the future.
Speaker 1: A lot of burgers might worry about making sure that
Speaker 1: they bring water or sunscreen or an extra phone battery pack,
Speaker 1: but black birders have an extra checklist.
Speaker 2: Sometimes when I'm outdoors, I try to make sure my field.
Speaker 3: Guide is visible so no one thinks that I'm doing
Speaker 3: something with Bino's that other than looking at birds like
Speaker 3: I'm promised, I'm not spying on you. I'm really just
Speaker 3: looking for.
Speaker 1: This one bird as you're a porcupine or yeah, but
Speaker 1: that is something that is I've heard that from different
Speaker 1: field scientists and as someone who doesn't quite get questioned
Speaker 1: if I'm in a park or if I'm looking for
Speaker 1: bugs or you know, that's a privilege that I wasn't
Speaker 1: aware of until it was brought up by people who
Speaker 1: don't have that. It's just such an important conversation to have.
Speaker 1: I love what you're doing, and I love how much
Speaker 1: you're educating people not only about your science, but also
Speaker 1: just about the social forces that impact your science.
Speaker 2: You know. Yeah, we are.
Speaker 3: Really hoping that this event will encourage discussion and dialogue,
Speaker 3: that different cultures and races can really just work together,
Speaker 3: and that we can understand each other's viewpoints. And even
Speaker 3: though we are underrepresentative in the outdoors, we're still here.
Speaker 1: I'm so glad that Black af and Stem organizes Blackbird's Week.
Speaker 1: Look up the hashtag on social media. You will see
Speaker 1: gorgeous bird photography, just stunning, awesome, rare bird species spotting tips.
Speaker 1: There's binocular recommendations of you need them. There are field
Speaker 1: stories and of course discussions about making sure black and
Speaker 1: indigenous and people of color folks feel welcome and included
Speaker 1: in outdoor spaces. Now, to start birding, what do you
Speaker 1: need other than I guess just a smile on a
Speaker 1: trail and an interest to see birds.
Speaker 3: Because you don't really need equipment, like God, para binals
Speaker 3: is great, but you can also see a cardinal firm
Speaker 3: for example, like just with your naked eye. And I
Speaker 3: think it's a really good gateway for people to get
Speaker 3: out there and like really interact with the wild bases
Speaker 3: around them.
Speaker 2: Absolutely.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I hope more people pick up birding, like
Speaker 3: even it was just sitting in your backyard and watching birds.
Speaker 2: Do you have time? Do you mind getting asked patron questions? Oh, mash, yeah,
Speaker 2: bring Audie. I'm so excited.
Speaker 1: Okay, So before we get to your questions, a few
Speaker 1: words about sponsors who make it possible for ologies to
Speaker 1: donate to a cause of the ologist choosing each week,
Speaker 1: and this week, Jamita and all the folks at Black
Speaker 1: af and Stem decided on Backyard Basecamp dot org, which
Speaker 1: is inspiring Black, Indigenous and all people of color across
Speaker 1: Baltimore City to find nature where they are and empowering
Speaker 1: them to explore further.
Speaker 2: And this organization is awesome.
Speaker 1: It was launched by Ata Wells, who is a pediatric
Speaker 1: nurse with a passion for culturally relevant nature education and
Speaker 1: started off with nature walks just in the neighborhood and
Speaker 1: now Backyard Based Camp also offers garden consultations and educator
Speaker 1: training and habitat discovery programs and more. They are awesome,
Speaker 1: so check them out and consider donating. That is backyard
Speaker 1: based camp or and that donation to them was made
Speaker 1: possible by sponsors of the show, who.
Speaker 2: You may hear about. Now, Okay, your pelic questions.
Speaker 1: There's a lot of pelican questions. Okay, this is a
Speaker 1: question that I think I got the most. Then Elle
Speaker 1: McCall put it, well, the spine thing out of their throats,
Speaker 1: please tell us everything, and Evan June and Angela Manuel
Speaker 1: and will play with I said, yes, please, yes, yes,
Speaker 1: I'm dying to know. Okay, just to let you know
Speaker 1: how big a deal this Patreon question was. I'm going
Speaker 1: to read off all of the names of people who
Speaker 1: asked it first names only, because we got to make
Speaker 1: this short. Usually everyone used a lot of exclamation points
Speaker 1: and all caps. Jen Dory, Angie, Adam, Emily, Celia, Angela,
Speaker 1: Mister Penguino, Carrie, Grace, Kazia c Mariann, Caitlin, Caitlin, Katie, Kathleen, Mary,
Speaker 1: Carrie Vincenzo, and Francesca Krry Mcowan first time question asker said.
Speaker 2: Spines through their mouths? Is that real?
Speaker 1: And Francesca says, learning about the pelican spine thing is
Speaker 1: pretty much up there on my list of horrors. So
Speaker 1: what a pelican opens its mouth wide, what appears to
Speaker 1: be an inversion of its final column occurs?
Speaker 2: What?
Speaker 1: Yeah, So what's happening with their spine out of their throats?
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, I totally saw that.
Speaker 3: So it's only like part of their it's like basically
Speaker 3: their neck vertebrae. So they when they're doing that, they're
Speaker 3: actually just yawning. Yeah, yawning slash stretching. So while I'm
Speaker 3: taking my camera chat photos them, that actually happens all
Speaker 3: the time. Really, I record it in my data sheet
Speaker 3: as yawning.
Speaker 2: Oh my god? What other what other things are in
Speaker 2: your data sheet?
Speaker 4: Like like yawning, like eye rolling, farting.
Speaker 2: Like what do you have to to shut down?
Speaker 3: I basically write down any and all behavior that I see,
Speaker 3: so everything from feeding. You can actually tell when a
Speaker 3: pelican chick is being fed because they're going.
Speaker 2: To feed straight out of the pouch. So the baby
Speaker 2: chick's head is in the parents' big pouch basically picking
Speaker 2: out fish.
Speaker 1: And one more thing on that vertebrae coming out of
Speaker 1: the neck.
Speaker 2: It's actually just their.
Speaker 1: Neck showing through the bottom of their pouch when they yawner,
Speaker 1: when they sit weird and corvett thanatologist doctor Kayley Swift
Speaker 1: recently made a video involving a vacuum and a coat
Speaker 1: hanger in a condom, explaining this visually but essentially. No,
Speaker 1: their spine isn't coming out of their neck. It's just
Speaker 1: kind of like pushing through the bottom of their pouch normal.
Speaker 2: Something else I record is if there is any neighborly
Speaker 2: conducts happening, so they'll sometimes bicker with one another. David's
Speaker 2: stop acting like a disgruntled pelican.
Speaker 3: They're pretty territorial over their one little nest spot.
Speaker 2: Well.
Speaker 1: Evan Jude, a patron, asked, why are they such huge jerks?
Speaker 1: And I feel like, Evan Jude, what did the pelican
Speaker 1: do to you?
Speaker 2: Like? Are they kind of feisty? They're feisty with each other.
Speaker 2: I will say the adult.
Speaker 3: Pelicans are a little feisty, okay, And sometimes there's like
Speaker 3: silbling rivalry, but usually I don't see that much of it.
Speaker 1: Okay. I looked up video of this, and sometimes these
Speaker 1: little dinosaur flops use their long bills to bite each
Speaker 1: other's bills, and it sounds like clack and a bunch
Speaker 1: of rulers together, But it looks like when my sisters
Speaker 1: and I would fight over Barett's and slap each other
Speaker 1: like little t rex bitches. Diane Pete wants to know
Speaker 1: do pelicans chew their food or do they just swallow it?
Speaker 1: And what's the largest prey a pelican can eat or
Speaker 1: is it mostly about like eating a bunch of jelly
Speaker 1: beans at once instead of eating like a whole cowzone.
Speaker 3: So they just do one big, big gulp. I'm sure
Speaker 3: if there's multiple fish in their pouch, though, they'll probably
Speaker 3: do a few big gulf They don't chew on anything,
Speaker 3: so it's whole fish that there swallowing and regurgitating for
Speaker 3: their young to eat.
Speaker 2: Do they regurgitate it? Is it like a slurry? No,
Speaker 2: it's actually a whole fish. Oh yeah, dang, Okay, I
Speaker 2: thought it. I was for sure. I thought that was
Speaker 2: gonna be like a fish smoothie. But it's just like.
Speaker 1: Loop, just like taking a granola bar right out of
Speaker 1: your own stomach.
Speaker 2: Yeah, basically.
Speaker 1: Okay, So this next question was on the minds of
Speaker 1: Patron's pacy sisterson first time question asker John Cruise, Ashley Curtin,
Speaker 1: Diane p Adrian Hollister. First time question askers that Wee Wang,
Speaker 1: Gary Jungling, Madeline Anderson, and Nat Matthews Graves who phrased it,
Speaker 1: could they fit a whole human person in those peaky beaks?
Speaker 1: So everyone wants to know how big a snack can
Speaker 1: it snack on? What's the biggest thing that they can eat?
Speaker 3: As long as it fits in their pouch, they can
Speaker 3: basically swallow it. I saw a photo and I can't
Speaker 3: remember who took this photo, but basically there was a.
Speaker 2: Flounder and a pelican's pouch. Those are the big flat ones, right.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Oh my, it's pretty big, like encompass the whole pouch.
Speaker 3: And I'm really sorry to the person who took that
Speaker 3: photo that I can't remember their Twitter handle.
Speaker 1: Yes, of course I found this photo for all of us,
Speaker 1: and the credit goes to professional photographer and Twitter Mark
Speaker 1: takes photo. And it is a head on photo of
Speaker 1: an open mouthed pelican and its face purse is occupied
Speaker 1: entirely by a Halibit kind of like if you stuffed
Speaker 1: a subway sandwich into a loafer twelve inch subway sandwich spectacular.
Speaker 1: Kelleen Sachs asked if they move their spine to their
Speaker 1: mouths to cool off, like, is that a yawn or
Speaker 1: is it a thermoregulation thing.
Speaker 2: No, it's not a thermal regulation thing.
Speaker 3: They it's definitely a yawn and it's just their neck
Speaker 3: vertebrae showing through their pouch because they've moved their heads backwards.
Speaker 3: And they actually therma regulate by just going into the water.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, so yeah, or they stand up. That's how
Speaker 3: they help their chicks thermal regulate is by creating shape.
Speaker 1: Oh that's so sweet of that, because.
Speaker 2: They're kind of big, so they can do that, right. Yeah.
Speaker 1: This next one was asked by my pal Greg Wallack
Speaker 1: and Megan Walker, William Andrews, and Laura Merriman, who referenced
Speaker 1: the nineteen ten limerick by Dixon lanear Merit, an ornithology
Speaker 1: enthusiast and a professional humorist. The limericks, so goes a
Speaker 1: wonderful bird is the pelican. His bill will hold more
Speaker 1: than his pelican. He can take in his beak enough
Speaker 1: food for a week. But I'm damned if I see
Speaker 1: how the helicn get it. So bill versus gastric capacity.
Speaker 1: Can a pelican's beak hold more than its pelican belly can?
Speaker 3: Yes, we used to tell that to our fifth and
Speaker 3: sixth graders when I was a naturalist back in the day.
Speaker 3: So it's bee can actually hold more than as belly
Speaker 3: can if you're counting the water volume.
Speaker 1: Oh yeat, and then it just squirts it out and
Speaker 1: then it keeps the fish.
Speaker 2: Yes, thanks a good big way.
Speaker 1: Remember it. And Jeffrey Bradshaw wants to know why are
Speaker 1: their pelicans at my very very inland lay and those
Speaker 1: that's where they nest.
Speaker 3: I'm assuming those are white pelicans, and yes they are nesting.
Speaker 1: Ooh. Hollis had a question. Do their throat pouches lose
Speaker 1: elasticity as they get older?
Speaker 2: Oh? I would assume so right, that would be my assumption,
Speaker 2: But I actually don't know for sure.
Speaker 1: I wonder if they get jowlly like all the rest
Speaker 1: of us. I wonder if there's like any botox for pouches.
Speaker 2: I hope not. I wonder if there's a study on that.
Speaker 1: Cool look it up, Okay, I look this up for
Speaker 1: more time than I am willing to admit. And finally,
Speaker 1: finally I turned a corner to stumble upon the paper
Speaker 1: quote on the goular sack tissue of the brown Pelican
Speaker 1: structural characterization and mechanical properties. I was like, yes, And
Speaker 1: in this paper they say bird age was found to
Speaker 1: affect the pouches material mechanical response significantly, supporting earlier musings
Speaker 1: that age brings more distinct anistrope in the Google our skin.
Speaker 1: And I think anistrope means wrinkles from what I can
Speaker 1: gather via a Google. And let me tell you how
Speaker 1: lucky you are that I found this paper because you
Speaker 1: were about to get some data about testicular sagging for
Speaker 1: comparison in human males that really probably no one wants
Speaker 1: to hear. But now I know that scrotoplasty is a thing.
Speaker 2: Get it if you want it.
Speaker 1: I do regret clicking them before and after links though.
Speaker 1: Oh Ashley Herbel had a question. Are pelicans disproportionately affected
Speaker 1: by the pollution in our oceans due to the way
Speaker 1: that they scoop up prey with their beak like and water?
Speaker 2: Does that happen?
Speaker 3: I don't know about disproportionately like worse than any other seabird.
Speaker 3: In the event of like an oil spill, they could
Speaker 3: definitely ingest oil in that way, potentially at a higher rate.
Speaker 3: But most seabirds are affected by the same thing pretty
Speaker 3: much across the board.
Speaker 1: And now you said that they can get feisty with
Speaker 1: each other and their neighbors, but not usually others. Julian
Speaker 1: Gibson wants to know do pelicans ever attack surfers. I
Speaker 1: like to stare at them and swim towards them when surfing.
Speaker 1: Thus I'm wondering my chances of an attack.
Speaker 3: I have actually never been attacked by a pelican, and
Speaker 3: I doubt that they would because they always fly away.
Speaker 3: It's the turns and the skimmers you have to look
Speaker 3: out for. Really, they always die bomb and I know
Speaker 3: it's coming and I flinch every time they get so close.
Speaker 2: So, yeah, don't worry about the pelicans. It's a little ones. Yeah. Oh.
Speaker 1: Megan Walker had another question about their flippy flappy neck pouch.
Speaker 1: Do they ever get holes in their neck pouch?
Speaker 2: So, unfortunately, fishing line and hooks is what I personally
Speaker 2: see pelicans die from the most in my field sides.
Speaker 3: And if a hook does get a pelican's bill or pouch,
Speaker 3: it will rip it basically, and then they can't feed.
Speaker 1: Oh no, yeah, I wonder if bird rescues are they
Speaker 1: ever able to repair it?
Speaker 2: So if I found them in time, yes, but I
Speaker 2: usually don't. Yeah. Oh my gosh, that's so sad. I know. Okay,
Speaker 2: I didn't even know that could happen. Okay.
Speaker 1: Ps side note, I was like, I wonder if there's
Speaker 1: anyone really good at Pelican gooler sack surgery. And it
Speaker 1: turns out yes, Doctor Rebecca Door at the International Bird
Speaker 1: Rescue Facility in San Pedro, California, has surgically repaired well
Speaker 1: over one hundred snagged sacks, including that of a brown
Speaker 1: pelican named Pink, who in twenty fourteen was found having
Speaker 1: been knifed. There's a twenty thousand dollars reward for info
Speaker 1: on Pink's injuries and what happened and who did it,
Speaker 1: and it went unacclaimed and no one ever found the assailant.
Speaker 1: But the good news is that doctor dor stitched Pink's
Speaker 1: bill back with hundreds of sutures and she.
Speaker 2: Released back into the wild.
Speaker 1: And I hope she's just thriving in the sky and
Speaker 1: just takes the chance to drop glooey fish poop on
Speaker 1: people as much as she wants. Thomas and Wyndham wants
Speaker 1: to know if Pelican chicks toss their siblings out of
Speaker 1: the nest.
Speaker 3: Not usually, I have never seen them in my cameras.
Speaker 3: But there is sibling rivalry. Rivalry in the sense that
Speaker 3: if there is not enough food to go around, the
Speaker 3: youngest chick tends to.
Speaker 2: Not get fed. Oh okay, yeah, so the order and.
Speaker 3: That they were born is the order in which the
Speaker 3: parents will generally feed them.
Speaker 1: They can remember, But are are they like ten hours apart,
Speaker 1: like like how soon they hatch?
Speaker 3: Kind of, It's more like a day or so. Okay,
Speaker 3: And it's not that the parents remember. It's more that
Speaker 3: the older chicks are louder. They're more willing to like
Speaker 3: shove their siblings out of the way, like get to
Speaker 3: the parents first.
Speaker 2: Did you hear any siblings?
Speaker 3: I actually have four? Simple what's your birth order? I
Speaker 3: am second oldest? Oh really, yeah, but all of my
Speaker 3: siblings are taller than me. I'm the shortest. I don't
Speaker 3: know what happened. Your parents must have regurgitated more fish
Speaker 3: into their mouths.
Speaker 2: I know, I'm like.
Speaker 3: Did I just get less food than everybody?
Speaker 1: Sultan Zazzi wants to know if a pelican cutting its
Speaker 1: own chest to feed its young with its blood?
Speaker 2: Does this happen? Okay?
Speaker 1: This was a hot topic in Angela Mayfield, Katazerandi, Amber King,
Speaker 1: Skyler l prim Melissa Hannon, and Juliana all.
Speaker 2: Wanted to know.
Speaker 1: Is it a symbol of sacrifice or is it just
Speaker 1: medieval flim flam?
Speaker 3: Oh gosh, Okay, so that image is actually on the
Speaker 3: state flag?
Speaker 2: What? Yes, bleeding itself? Yes, it's actually a white pelican.
Speaker 2: Oh okay, so I explain this?
Speaker 3: Oh my god, it's supposed to show like caring and
Speaker 3: nurturing of all of the citizens of Louisiana.
Speaker 2: Okay, it does not happen. No, no, I promised it
Speaker 2: doesn't happen in real life.
Speaker 1: So they used a myth about a pelican on a
Speaker 1: pelican that is not endemic to the state. Am I
Speaker 1: getting this right?
Speaker 2: It's just not the state bird, not the bird.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So they used an image of not the state
Speaker 1: bird doing something pelicans don't do to symbolize the ethos
Speaker 1: of the state. Yes, they hit the phone up of
Speaker 1: pelicanologists before they did that.
Speaker 2: I hope no one comes from me. That's not your
Speaker 2: fault that it's erroneous. Iss vexill right there, all right.
Speaker 1: I googled this and the Louisiana flag is a blue
Speaker 1: banner with a big ass bird on it feeding chicks
Speaker 1: from like a blood boob, which is just erroneous all
Speaker 1: over the place. Now, for more on weird flags, you
Speaker 1: can see the Vexillology episode from September twenty nineteen. A
Speaker 1: lot of freaky flags out there, but not in a
Speaker 1: cool freak flag way, you know, why what why kind
Speaker 1: of way. And also a white pelican not even the
Speaker 1: state bird doing something helpful. That's actually a myth. Oh okay,
Speaker 1: Megan Walker. How tough are their insides? And do the
Speaker 1: fish die right away? It seems like a fresh floppy
Speaker 1: fish would do some damage to the insides.
Speaker 3: So, I mean, just like our stomachs, their stomachs have
Speaker 3: pretty high acid content.
Speaker 2: I'm not sure.
Speaker 3: How fast the fish actually is, like stop moving inside there,
Speaker 3: but I would assume it's pretty fast.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Okay, I look this up and apparently it's pretty
Speaker 1: acidic in there, and fish are not long for this
Speaker 1: world once in a bird belly. Also, never feed fish
Speaker 1: scraps to a pelican. I just read that the jagged
Speaker 1: bones can tear their face purse, and the only kind
Speaker 1: of sack surgery that really needs to happen is hopefully
Speaker 1: just elective.
Speaker 2: Okay.
Speaker 1: Miranda Martin first time question answer wants to know how
Speaker 1: are their populations doing given all the environmental challenges and
Speaker 1: which issue is impacting them the most? Miranda size, I
Speaker 1: read that they stand on their eggs to incubate, but
Speaker 1: some of them were breaking due to DDT, which we
Speaker 1: talked about. But right now is the habitat loss is
Speaker 1: the big one?
Speaker 3: Yes, so losing their nesting sites is probably the biggest
Speaker 3: threat that they face on a wide scale. But I
Speaker 3: would say on a small scale, and this study hasn't
Speaker 3: been done, but it's just from what I've observed.
Speaker 2: Fishing line is it's pretty bad.
Speaker 3: So basically human pollutants, plastic for the most part, and
Speaker 3: fishing line.
Speaker 2: Oh oh.
Speaker 1: Amber King has a question why do they get that
Speaker 1: weird bump on their beak during mating season? And then
Speaker 1: Elizabeth rich says, what is the deal with the horn?
Speaker 1: Is it for courtship? Is it a tool? What kind
Speaker 1: of horny beaks today got going? On Jueta says that
Speaker 1: this only happens on American white pelicans. And I look
Speaker 1: this up and it's kind of like a semi circular
Speaker 1: fin that grows from their upper bill. And by the way,
Speaker 1: most ornithologists are like beak or bill, either's fine. Anyway,
Speaker 1: they get this humpy horn thing during breeding season and
Speaker 1: then it kind of dries up and just sloughs off
Speaker 1: in one ridgy chunk near the nest. Did I stumble
Speaker 1: on the blog of someone who collected them like horny
Speaker 1: sand dollars made of giant fingernail clippings. I sure did,
Speaker 1: and I loved it.
Speaker 3: And once the white pelican layser eggs, it falls off. Basically, Oh,
Speaker 3: is that just to say, like I'm a that they
Speaker 3: are fit enough to breed?
Speaker 2: I'm pretty sure.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I've got this bee comp and yeah, anyone's wondering
Speaker 1: if I'm down.
Speaker 2: To fornicate my bee comp? Yeah? Okay.
Speaker 1: Alison Bray says, I already know too much about pelicans
Speaker 1: because my husband is a zoo keeper. But please ask
Speaker 1: about pouchle lole. What is pouch louse?
Speaker 2: Okay, So there are.
Speaker 3: Lice found on pelicans, and there has to be on
Speaker 3: in a habitat that already had the lice, and they
Speaker 3: can make their way like onto the pelicans. And it's
Speaker 3: not really good if they have really high abundance of lice.
Speaker 2: Ooh yeah, okay, I want to see what these pouch
Speaker 2: louse looks like.
Speaker 1: Pouch louse, Alcid Bray, why'd you do this to us?
Speaker 1: I look this up and just imagine staring down the
Speaker 1: fleshy barrel of a Pelican purse to see dozens of
Speaker 1: redbug looking horrors just clinging to the skin, which in
Speaker 1: some cases can malnourish our pella friends. I want to
Speaker 1: get in there with tweezers and just just lovesme. I
Speaker 1: just want to help out. And also I'm a gross
Speaker 1: person and I like gross things. Okay, Julie Bear. How
Speaker 1: many Pelicans are in a typical orgy? I mean a
Speaker 1: breeding colony? Is Is it that kind of party?
Speaker 2: It's nope. They usually just have one mate, okay.
Speaker 3: And on the biggest island in coastal Louisiana, we have
Speaker 3: about ten thousand breeding pairs.
Speaker 2: Ten thousands thousand.
Speaker 1: Oh. Mikayley Egott, first time question asker asks why do
Speaker 1: they have those terrifying red eyes.
Speaker 2: Do they have red eyes? And are they terrifying?
Speaker 3: Ooh, so brown pelicans actually have this blue hazely eyes.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, they're actually really pretty in my opinion, and
Speaker 3: adult pelican, I should specify, have the prettiest eyes.
Speaker 1: Side fact, white pelicans can have red eyes, kind of
Speaker 1: like that weird Bronco statue at the Denver Airport. Also,
Speaker 1: as breeding season comes and goes, a pelican's eyes can
Speaker 1: change color and so can their gular sac It's so flirty.
Speaker 1: Ronan last question says, the brown pelican is my mom's
Speaker 1: favorite bird, which is amazing, And I asked her if
Speaker 1: she has a question, And so Ronan's mom wants to know.
Speaker 1: So do pelicans migrate or do they live in the
Speaker 1: same temperate location year round?
Speaker 3: So in Louisiana we do have brown pelicans that hang
Speaker 3: around all year, but some of them actually do travel
Speaker 3: down to Central America.
Speaker 1: Ooh, and that's wintertime.
Speaker 3: Yes, so outside of February through like August, they can
Speaker 3: be somewhere else.
Speaker 1: I love the idea that they're just like little snowbirds,
Speaker 1: just having some fun some of their own vacation.
Speaker 2: They just have a time share.
Speaker 3: I'm so jealous they get to leave, but I'm stuck
Speaker 3: in cold Louisiana.
Speaker 4: And you're just like waiting for them to come to tach. Yes,
Speaker 4: that's literally my life. Like, actually, do you have any
Speaker 4: advice for anyone who has a feeling in their heart
Speaker 4: like maybe they are a burder but they're not quite
Speaker 4: sure how to get started.
Speaker 1: I have a feeling in my heart that I might
Speaker 1: be a burder. And I have a friend who I've
Speaker 1: known since we were twelve, and just in the last
Speaker 1: year something happened and she is a capital B birder
Speaker 1: now and I'm like, I get it. What do you
Speaker 1: think is the best way to start? Do you get
Speaker 1: like a local field guide?
Speaker 3: So I just got this recommended to me. And if
Speaker 3: you're a tech savvy person, there's a Sibly app version
Speaker 3: two for twenty dollars that you can download so you
Speaker 3: don't have to carry around a really big field guy.
Speaker 3: And in this app you can actually compare birds, which
Speaker 3: is really helpful. I think that's a really helpful tool,
Speaker 3: just to see a side by side comparison, which you
Speaker 3: can do with the book, but you're just flipping around,
Speaker 3: right and the bird might fly away by the time
Speaker 3: that you reach the page that you have to get to,
Speaker 3: so I highly recommend this app if you can afford
Speaker 3: the twenty dollars, as well as just going out there
Speaker 3: and seeing what's around you.
Speaker 1: Safety and the outdoors is very important, and recognizing Blackbird's
Speaker 1: Week is a great way to celebrate black naturalists and
Speaker 1: just let them know that they're seen and supported in
Speaker 1: the sciences and in the outdoors and ologites. I hope
Speaker 1: you can be allies and find allies and maybe find
Speaker 1: some birding buddies out there. I have never been burning myself,
Speaker 1: and this initiative has made me pretty eager to dust
Speaker 1: off my binoculars and go. So for a novice burd
Speaker 1: is it better to go with a group who knows
Speaker 1: what to look for? Or is it better to go
Speaker 1: in smaller groups so you don't scare the birds if
Speaker 1: you feel it's safe to do. So, how does this work?
Speaker 3: I like both. Actually like hanging out with the big
Speaker 3: group of people. There's more eyes looking around and everyone
Speaker 3: can share their experiences and like just point out different
Speaker 3: things that you may not have seen or known about.
Speaker 3: And then sometimes I like to go out on my
Speaker 3: own because it forces me to really learn and hone
Speaker 3: in my skills.
Speaker 2: I think both options are awesome. How is your vision?
Speaker 2: I have a stigmatism, you do? I was finding.
Speaker 1: Because like I feel like you know when you get
Speaker 1: a new contact or a new glasses prescription and suddenly
Speaker 1: you're like, oh, oh my gosh, well these leaves I've
Speaker 1: been missing out on?
Speaker 2: Oh my god.
Speaker 3: Yeah, for me, it's like the blades of grass. I'm like, whoa,
Speaker 3: there's so many blades of grass. Who would have thought?
Speaker 2: And so it's not that great, but just got to
Speaker 2: remember to where it goes.
Speaker 1: Yeah, whenever I get like a new prescription, that's always
Speaker 1: the thing that I noticed, and I imagine that that
Speaker 1: It must make you want to make sure that you've
Speaker 1: got like the right prescription a lot.
Speaker 2: Yes, you can see so much more.
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh. What sucks the most about pelicans or
Speaker 1: about your work?
Speaker 2: Okay? I think the worst for me is the boat.
Speaker 2: I am terrified. I'm not terrified of the boat. I'm
Speaker 2: terrified of damaging the boat, losing the boat, or getting
Speaker 2: it stuck again. So I didn't actually ever lose a boat,
Speaker 2: but somebody else did they boat.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so what we have to do is you toss
Speaker 3: the anchor and you try to make sure that the
Speaker 3: anchor is actually in and because if you don't, the
Speaker 3: boat basically drifts away. And so this person, you know,
Speaker 3: toss the anchor, went on their plot of land, whatever
Speaker 3: their field site was, and when they came back, the
Speaker 3: boat was gone.
Speaker 2: No. Yeah, this like half a million dollar boat. Did
Speaker 2: they ever find it?
Speaker 3: They did, say, God they were in cell service areas
Speaker 3: versus me. I don't work in an area with a
Speaker 3: cell service, so if I lost the boat, I'm not
Speaker 3: sure what would happen. So that's probably like my biggest.
Speaker 1: Fear should be to message me later to say that
Speaker 1: the boat was probably actually around one hundred thousand dollars, which, hello,
Speaker 1: is like losing a brand new Porsche just out to sea,
Speaker 1: bobbing in the dark water. Now, can she just pop
Speaker 1: a GPS tile on a boat? She had a better idea.
Speaker 2: I should put a Louisiana state flag on it so
Speaker 2: I can see it. That's a good idea, That's what
Speaker 2: I should do.
Speaker 1: Can you put a note on the bottom of the flag,
Speaker 1: being like pelicans represented may not actually ever do this
Speaker 1: disclaimer or be our state bird. What about your favorite
Speaker 1: thing about pelicans or your work.
Speaker 3: The fact that I get to be so close to
Speaker 3: these birds is wild because very few people get that
Speaker 3: opportunity and being surrounded by ten thousand nesting birds, specifically pelicans,
Speaker 3: it's a wild experience.
Speaker 2: And pelicans are actually not that bad.
Speaker 3: It's all the other birds around them, from the turn
Speaker 3: to the skimmers to the laughing gulls.
Speaker 2: They're super loud. But that's why I love.
Speaker 3: Taking volunteers out there when a pandemic isn't currently going on,
Speaker 3: because I get to see my field site in a
Speaker 3: whole new light and remember, oh yeah, most people don't
Speaker 3: get to see that happening, and it's like the coolest thing.
Speaker 3: I just went out into the field for the first
Speaker 3: time yesterday and I took one of my committee members
Speaker 3: and another grad student, both of whom have not been
Speaker 3: on the islands.
Speaker 2: And I know they're team fish, but I'm just going
Speaker 2: to say they were smiling from there years.
Speaker 1: So from one side of their pouch to the other. Yes,
Speaker 1: that's exciting. Well, you have given me a new appreciation
Speaker 1: of pelicans and pelican.
Speaker 2: Babies and their floopy skin pouches and their face purses.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna call them face persa.
Speaker 4: So now I love that, just digging around, just digging
Speaker 4: around the handbag.
Speaker 1: Oh look at that's another fish.
Speaker 2: You never know. I'm so glad I got a chance
Speaker 2: to talk to you. If i'm next.
Speaker 1: Time I come to Louisiana, I'm going to look you up.
Speaker 2: I hope it's in field season. I'll come out with
Speaker 2: my chacos. Oh my god, yes we have to have that.
Speaker 2: That would be awesome.
Speaker 4: Choco tacos, no pelican ing, We'll wear chacos.
Speaker 2: I promise not to lose the boat.
Speaker 1: So ask smart pelicanologists flappy saggy, sappy, silly questions because
Speaker 1: they love pelicans and now, so do you look at that?
Speaker 1: You love pelicans? And Juta. You can follow her on
Speaker 1: Instagram or on Twitter at Juwita Martinez. I will put
Speaker 1: a link to the handles and her website in the
Speaker 1: show notes. You can also join in and enjoy black
Speaker 1: Birders Week. You can check that hashtag. You can check
Speaker 1: the ologies Instagram for more hashtags and follow some really
Speaker 1: incredible new science friends from that and the account at
Speaker 1: black af in Stem is also awesome. They organize black
Speaker 1: Birders Week. Stay tuned for a bonus episode in your
Speaker 1: feeds this week. I'm very excited. I'm rushing to put
Speaker 1: that together, which is why this episode came out teet
Speaker 1: a bit late, but it's so worth it.
Speaker 2: I'm so excited.
Speaker 1: Okay, we are at Ologies on Twitter and Instagram. I'm
Speaker 1: Ali wordeth one l on both and Ologiesmerch dot com
Speaker 1: has totes and shirts and bags and such. And thank
Speaker 1: you to Shannon Feldtis and Bonnie Dutch. They are sisters
Speaker 1: who host a comedy podcast called You Are that they
Speaker 1: manage merch. There have been warehouse delays due to COVID nineteen,
Speaker 1: but we're going as fast as we can.
Speaker 2: Thank you to the.
Speaker 1: Wonderful Aaron Talbert, who admins Theologies podcast Facebook group. There's
Speaker 1: also a subreddit if you're into that. Thanks to all
Speaker 1: the Ologies transcribers and Emily White for working so hard
Speaker 1: to make transcripts. Avails at alleywar dot com, slash Ologies
Speaker 1: Dash Extras. Caleb Patton for making the Bleeped episodes that
Speaker 1: are safe for kids. They are also up at that link.
Speaker 1: Kelly Dwyer for website updates, Noel for keeping me on
Speaker 1: top of my schedule. Thank you to assistant editor Jared
Speaker 1: Sleeper of the Mental Health podcast I'm a good bed
Speaker 1: brain and of course to everyone's Pella can do. Guy
Speaker 1: Stephen Ray Morris, who hosts the podcast The Percast and
Speaker 1: CE Jurassic Righte. Nick Thorburn wrote and performed the theme music.
Speaker 1: And if you stick around until the end of the
Speaker 1: episode through the credits, you know I tell you secret.
Speaker 2: And today's secret is.
Speaker 1: That I went to my friend's house for a socially
Speaker 1: distant hang. By that, I mean I was sitting on
Speaker 1: the curb while she was sitting on her porch like
Speaker 1: twelve feet away byo kombuucha, and I realised idpe And
Speaker 1: rather than go inside and touch all kinds of knobs
Speaker 1: and handles, I just pede in her backyard with her
Speaker 1: blessing Nature calls Hi, I'm here. Packaderman's College Mambiology, ydo zoology, lithology, yology, meteorology, entology, dipology, seriology, selenology,