Speaker 1: What is up, Fellasi goos, I am Dan Valley coming
at you with the one, the only, this certified fantabulous
Grant Hughes, it is time for another Hardwood Knox trade
deadline primer ronto the Memphis Grizzlies. Nothing going on with
this team whatsoever, so this should be quick and easy,
just to bowl through before we get started and get
to their trade deadline vitals. Grant, how the heck are
you doing?
Speaker 2: I'm doing well. I was very excited to read the
news that John Morant, while overseas in Europe has defected.
Kind of like how Russian athletes would would like get
Russian NHL athletes would get spirited away when they came
to America. Ja, Morant's not coming back. How do you
think the Grizzlies feel about that?
Speaker 1: Did they get anything? Did they get more than Corey
Kispert and CJ McCollum in return for his defection?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know that the jury's out. No, that
didn't happen. I'm trying a new bit where I make
up a news them just in as a way to
evade your question. I think it's going pretty well so far.
Speaker 1: Also going pretty well. The Memphis Grizzlies trade deadline vitals,
so they are fifteen point nine million dollars beneath the
luxury tax. They control all their own first round picks
moving forward. They were also this year. This is complicated,
but I believe you have it right. They will get
the two most favorable twenty twenty six first between their own,
Orlando's and Phoenixes. They also have a twenty twenty nine
swap with Orlando. It is top two protected, it turns
into Orlando's twenty twenty nine second if it's not exercised.
They also have two thousand and thirty swap rights where
they can take their own pick and swap it with
the less favorable of Phoenix or Washington's if it ends
up being better, and they are getting a twenty thirty
first round pick from the Magic as well as part
of that Desmond Bane trade grant. I think we start here.
Do you think that Cam Spencer is the future of this?
Speaker 2: Oh?
Speaker 1: Sorry? What is John Morant's trade value? How does this
end go? Aside from the possibility of him defecting, So
that's that happened.
Speaker 2: I don't know what you mean about those, Subert. This
is like the core question, and it's it's gonna be
really hard not to let this spiral into a larger
discussion about the shifting value trade wise of certain player
types in the league, because there's another player we may
talk about that's fairly high profile on this team, who
is seemingly less available, but also maybe should be available.
I would say Morant's trade value should be higher than
Trey Young's fame well, even that, I don't know what
you think about this, so I wouldn't be surprised if
you disagreed. The reason I say that is just he's
not technically a rental like Young probably is going to
be because of that player option. He's younger. To me,
there's some possibility that a change of scenery just gets
you another year or two of the best version of Morant,
who isn't a perfect player, but probably or at least
arguably played at a higher level as high a level
as Young did for a little bit there. So I
think there's maybe a first in there, which there wasn't
for Young. I don't think it's unprotected. I don't think
it's a super high value pick. I just don't think
the return for Moran should be expiring salary and like
a rotation guy, the Corey Kisspert version that's just like, yeah,
he's sort of helpful and is reasonably paid, but it's
it can't I just I don't feel like it's just
expiring money. I don't know, though, because what do you think?
Do you do you think he's gonna return more than
Trey or do you even want to use that as
the measuring stick?
Speaker 1: No, I think that is the measure acetick, because what
did we mentioned? It just felt like him, Trey and
LaMelo were these distressed star guards that nobody want, and
now that once and then Charlotte now is healthier and
cooking on offense. LaMelo's faded from the speculation factory. I
think standalone, John Moran probably gets you. If you set
the over under at point five first round picks, I
will take the over. If you set the over under
at one point five first round picks, I'll take the under.
And I think that's where his trade values at. You
could say this is a guy that felt like he
could be a twenty five to ten guy, probably an
underrated passer if you were say anything about his game
is underappreciated. Okay, sure, he hasn't played in seven consecutive
games since twenty twenty three. The off court stuff is
the off court stuff, and has he had his revelatory
moment of realizing that a lot of this is on him,
just because some of the stuff about him not liking
the head coach and just by the way the Grizzlies
have not handled this perfectly. They insulated him for way
too long and let wait, too many things fly under
the radar. So this is not just a John Morant problem.
But does he recognize the role he played in this
descent into where we are now? And it doesn't to
me just the reporting, we have no inside knowledge to it.
I don't know that. Like the Trey Young stuff, I
think he got it when you saw the report, Like
the Wizards are Trey Young's favorite destination, and this was oh,
Trey Young recognizes that the Wizards are Trey Young's only
possible destination. John Morant wants to go to Miami. I
don't know if he has the same and we don't
know if Young has the same mindset. But I think
if the Grizzlies get substantially more, which is reasonable to expect,
just because like you mentioned, the contract, and it does
feel like Atlanta has turned over its roster more in
service of Trey Young and he's failed to play these
different styles where you with John Morant it's well, we
haven't really seen. Yeah, they tried to play a different
style last year for sure, and then even this year
a little bit. But maybe the change of that, maybe
he needs a culture shock more than he does. Trey
Young feels like he needs a functional shock the way
that he plays. But to wrap it up up, from
my end, I really only think he nets a lot
more because the Grizzlies might be more willing to take
back longer term money than Atlanta clearly was when they
manage Ray Yall.
Speaker 2: No, it's it's the reason I hesitated on is is
it going to be more or less than Young is like, yeah,
I kind of blaid out some of the potential upsides.
But like you're asking all these questions about his sort
of like self awareness rhetorically, and to me, it's like
it's not rhetorical. The answer, based on his behavior and
what we've heard, is like, no, he I don't. I
don't think he Based on what we've seen and heard,
it does not seem to me like he's taken a
ton of responsibility for his part in any of this
that's gone on. So like that's that's the reason you
would say no team is giving up anything of real
value for him, because like, and I'm trying to be
better about this, but like it's cognitively easier to keep
four hundred and whatever NBA players straight in my head
if I can occasionally just like write people off and
be like, it's not gonna happen for him. And I
want to do that with Morant because of the because
of everything that's happened, right, I want to be like,
it just be easier if I didn't have to hold
out the like caveat of like change of scenery and
like everybody matures and like second chance stuff, which like
that's all viable, but but a large part of me
wants to just be like, you can't trade for this guy.
You're never gonna win. He's not getting better. The trend
line is headed down forever athletically, like you know, impact wise,
all that stuff. I don't know if I'm all the
way there, but that's the reason I hesitated, And that's
the reason why, Like if you'd go under your head,
poor poor, poor, analogy to you is given the player,
you would you would say, like is it gonna be
over point five firsts? Like what team is doing that?
Maybe the other way to look at this is like,
what's the team out there that says we are absolutely
comfortable giving up real value for John Moran because we
think that it will work here, you know, And like
that's a huge leap of faith.
Speaker 1: By the way, to your self awareness point. If he
wants Miami and he hasn't said it himself, so we
can give him that grace. Does he not realize I
know they're running more pick and rolls lately, but does
he not realize that Laroche is there, that like the
they are installing similar offensive principles there. But you want
my is it just because you want to live in Miami?
He reportedly bought a mansion there, So it's just But
so I that's to yourself Warren's point. But looking at
the teams, it's what is is it a team that's
contending and just wouldn't have the chance to ever get
We're on the verge of contention and wouldn't have the
chance to get this this theoretical player in any under
any other circumstances other than his value has just been
mutilated over the past few years, or is it a
team that has less to lose its lower stakes And
it's yeah, like we'll take it, Like Brooklyn, think a
flyer on that you want salary? Sure, So before even
like considering teams, what do you think is the better situation? Uh, like,
what's the better type of team to take a chance?
Speaker 2: So I wrote about this earlier this week, and it's
aged poorly because they've continued to play well. But I
cited the Clippers, and the reason I picked them is
because I think the team that trades for Jah Morant
has to be a team that doesn't have anything to lose.
And so even if you use Brooklyn as an example,
they drafted five guys that handle the ball just this
past draft, and so like what you have to lose
is their development if you bring Morant on and you
put them in a huge role, like there's always something
for a team to lose. And the Clippers stand out
to me because like they don't control their own picks,
they don't have any high end prospects. We all love
Sanders and we all love Jordan Miller, but like, okay,
come on, like he's John Morant's not going to get
in the way.
Speaker 1: Don't forge about Meeterhauser, come on.
Speaker 2: Sure, different positions, it doesn't matter. And like how far
are you going? You're not gonna make a playoff run
built on James Harden and Kwhi Leonard, Like that ship
has sailed as great as they've been when healthy this year,
Like we just so the Clippers don't have anything to
lose and and so that's the type of team that
could justify trading something. Now we're still talking John Collins
and Bugdanovic and like maybe some distant, not very valuable asset,
but like you can't onboard him on a team that has,
you know, uh, players that he might get in the
way of or poorly influence or siphon touches away from.
It just needs to be a team like the Clippers
that like after this year, like what's happening for you,
Like especially if the aspiration stuff costs you or your
other picks like you. So that's that's the type of team, like,
you know, without getting too specific and just saying the Clippers,
it needs to be a team that has decided we
can the risk reward calculus works out because we're not
really risking anything by taking a shot on Morant because
the opportunity cost is zero because we got nothing going
for us.
Speaker 1: When you frame it that way, it feels like the
answer would need to be the Clippers or the Bucks. Sure, yeah,
because the Bucks. I think he's a terrible fit alongside Nas.
But maybe just the minutes without Yannis have been so
bad in Milwaukee that maybe just infusing John Morant. Okay,
you lose some offense with Giannis on the court, but
you gain a ton when he's off the floor, and
it just balances that, like makes your team better balanced,
and then there's just not as much of a total
workload on Giannis's shoulders.
Speaker 2: I think it's got to be a team too where
you're organizationally worried about losing significant fan interest like soon
you know and morn if nothing.
Speaker 1: Else was ten trade for him too, No, because they've
got so much to lose.
Speaker 2: They've they've got they've got too much to lose. They
have young players that you care about.
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, what about this would be really funny. This
wouldn't be them ducking attacks like so many peop will
want them to do. The spacing works out there though,
if it was just Anthony Simon's and Sam Hauser for
Joahn Morant.
Speaker 2: Oh my god. I can honestly say I've never once
thought about Boston.
Speaker 1: I don't even know if the money works. I think,
what is John Morant making this year?
Speaker 2: I think it's like forty two, and then I have
it in front of me thirty nine, then forty two,
then forty five.
Speaker 1: Okay, so you would need more money than Simon's and
but you could do I think like Cloche would get
you there.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're close. Yeah, I mean it's a hard no
for me. I was just kidding, like a hard no
for the Celtics too. It's a real hard note for
the Celtic Like can I just can't imagine that him?
I would him and Joe Missoula, Like what's that conversation?
Like can you imagine? How fun is that?
Speaker 1: But that like it? But that type of a team too,
they have a ton to lose. But it's you're not
coming in under the guys if they need you to
be a savior or that you're even their second best player. Yeah,
and I guess with Milwaukee there would be that cash.
We need you to be our second best player. You're
the guy who's gonna help us keep you honest. The Clippers,
it's probably lower stakes because he's what maybe he's their
third best player behind Kawhi.
Speaker 2: And yeah, when I mentioned them, I'm just kind of
imagining the post Kawhi hardened version of the team, which
might exist as soon as next year, where it's like,
what are what are you saying? And the Clippers, again,
I think two are a team that, like the Lakers
got Luca, They're gonna swing big at some point. Here
you're already your permanent second fiddle. But it's like you
could really backslide in terms of like interest if you
go post Harden in Kawhi and you have like nobody
of interest, Like, oh oh they got cap space coming up?
All right, good luck getting that second star if you
don't have the first one already there. So maybe Moran
in the one percent chance that like everything just flips
and it's perfect. Oh, guys want to play with Moran
Now our cap space matters more in a post Kawhi
hardened world. I don't know. These are all like the
longest of long shots, but like that's kind of what
you're trafficking in if you're talking Morant destinations that make
any sense.
Speaker 1: Two other ones I've seen Minnesota thrown out there. I
don't even know what that trade looks like, and I
don't love the fit next time. I don't think any
Edwards needs the ball out of his hands. They just
need an alternative to in crunch time and then when
he's not on the court. Yes, that's not Mike Conley
or Bones Island or Rob Dillingham or Jalen Clark. So
Morent can provide some of that, but I think that
he would be too much of a Like he's not
enough of an additive next to Anthony Edwards, and I like,
what is the money you're sending out in that deal?
Speaker 2: Well, and like he might even subtract from Edwards too,
to your point, like he's not a name that gets
I don't know why he's in my head, But like
Norm Powell would help the Wolves like way more than
Morent would, And that's independent of like the money or
any of the other baggage stuff Like that's that's kind
of more the type of player I think you're looking for.
Speaker 1: Now you want to talk about low stakes. Why aren't
the Kings being mentioned here? You could say, by the
way you could there's like because if you're Memphis, the
idea of like do you want to challenge trade? Is
it Moran? And what to get Sabonis? I don't like
you have Zach Edy, but he's not really like sa
Bonus could play alongside Jared Jenators. Do you play alongside
Edie or Sabonis? Or is it just do you even
look at getting Zach Levine? He has one year left
on his deal. It's a lot of money, It's more
than he's worth at this point. But you get out
of the Moran contract but still get someone who should
inject offensive life. Like that, the Kings feel like an
actual not because I don't know the resulting roster all
of a sudden. Okay, so now you have Moran and
de Rosen and Monk and Sbone. I don't know what,
but you talk about that team's going nowhere and it's
you do have some young players that you care about
in Maxim Reno, uh Kiga, Murray Me Clifford Clifford, Yeah, I.
Speaker 2: I My theory on that is the reason the Kings
don't seem to be outwardly interested is because Scott Perry
and the new decision makers in so far as anyone
is a new decision maker when Vek is still in charge,
realize that Morant is exactly the kind of move that
like previous kings administrations would have been like absolutely, that's
who we want. And so like we're not doing that.
We know, we know how that'll be perceived. We're not
doing it. And honestly, like that's not a great reason,
because I think you're kind of right that, like, well,
what do you what do you got going for you? Like,
what what are you? What are you sacrificing if you
go get Moran? So ironically, I think the King's past
like stupid decisions are preventing them from making like a
slightly less stupid one right now. Uh, And so because
because otherwise they do make sense, Like I you know,
he would people would be interested. I can tell you that,
like people will talk themselves into him so fast, I
can just already imagine it.
Speaker 1: I'm honestly just surprised that Vivek has not already Yeah, really,
well that shows.
Speaker 2: You he's maybe gotten maybe he's only got one hand
on the wheel for the moment and not.
Speaker 1: Well, I do I do think that. I don't know
if you saw that ESPN piece. I believe it was
Anthony Slater wrote it, but it does seem like Scott
Perry has a vision of the team he wants to build,
which one Moran does not fit that vision. And then
two it maybe it means, oh, the Kings are not
looking for that slapstick solution like put it like we needed,
like this needs to happen overnight. I hadn't thought about
this team, but from a sheer just value play. If
you don't have to give up any of your stars,
would you do it? As the Warriors? You have the
comminga money and then with buddy heel you're still about
eight million bucks short, so can't be out have to
be moody. So let's okay, you get what is it?
What's the difference there? So that's about four million bucks?
Could you talk Memphis into giving you Cam Spencer in
that deal? Probably not, but maybe it's a three way
trade with the Okay, hold on three way trade with
the Kings to where So the Warriors are sending out
kaminga moody buddy heal, they're getting back John Morant and
Kean Ellis.
Speaker 2: And the Warriors are not giving up a pick.
Speaker 1: Do they need to don't.
Speaker 2: Because done deal. If if it's just those twenty six
pick I think even then you I would have to
think about it because yeah, like I mean, the Warriors
aren't that far from the type of thing I'm talking
about with the Clippers, where it's like, once this is over,
what do you got? Yeah, you got all your picks,
but you're still at zero because there's no so Morant
gives you that that vanishingly small chance of here's someone
we could build a forty eight win team around, you know,
for a couple of years, which might be preferable to
it's a hard reset after Curry and Draymond and Butler
and probably Steve Kerr are all gone after twenty seven.
So maybe, but if you got to do more, which
you wouldn't, you wouldn't have to give up like the
twenty eight first or anything like. No, that's not going
to be necessary.
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, that's just totally And I say.
Speaker 2: I really resent how you have in five minutes talked
me into taking me from You can't have this guy
on your team. You just can't do it too. Yeah,
I'd probably take him. Good job by you.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so it I mean it would work too. I
think it's a horrible fit with.
Speaker 2: The current roster, right, like, but that's not really what
you're concerned about.
Speaker 1: No, so, and maybe that, but I I probably wouldn't
want to give up the pick if I'm Golden State.
But at the same time, it's just sort of like,
I mean, maybe you just do it. Uh yeah, So
this is so the three way construction I'm building it now.
It worked John Moran and Kean Ellis to the Warriors,
Moody Buddy Healed and Malik Monk to the Grizzlies, and
the Kings get Jonathan Kaminga And if Warriors have to
you said you'd I mean, could you send out seconds
or something? Is I don't know who needs to be compensated,
but I don't like Is that so from Memphis' perspective,
Moody Healed, Monk is the is that the return you want?
Who accept Moody Healed Monk and okay, a twenty twenty
six Warriors first round pick.
Speaker 2: You're getting You're adding basically three well Monks like a
one to two Healds a straight two Moody the two
mostly a two but kind of a two three.
Speaker 1: Add Coward and Jayalen well Is just nice tidy wing rotation.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I feel like if I'm Memphis, I
you know what, maybe you can't do better than that.
I mean, so Monk's contract goes out, but everyone's talking
about like always overpaid. Like I don't know, I think
he could play to that contract if he was on
a decent team and in the right role. Moody's fine,
properly paid. And then heals only guaranteed for three million
next year, so like you you're saving money there. There's
it's like at least some something resembling like salary relief
in that.
Speaker 1: And they do have they haven't played this season, but
between Tyjerome, Scottie Pippen Junior, I guess you do have
other ballhand and as well as Cam Spencer, but like
there would be the the scoring ball handler vacuum there
with Morant gone and which muzz.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that's Monk's whole deal, Like that's what he's
supposed to be there for.
Speaker 1: This is we just found that'd be the most interesting.
Speaker 2: You did that. You you don't put me in there,
you pulled that on.
Speaker 1: Yeah, now you're gonna sign all the blame to me,
I think, needless to say that we don't think John
Morant's values is very high so very quickly. Do you
see any scenario where Memphis is just like, we're not
gonna move him, that we're gonna hope that. I just
the situation feels too far gone where I've I don't
normally say this about stars, and if I do, it's
the off season. Like part of me would be pretty
shocked if you're honest, is in Milwaukee to start next year. Yeah,
I would also be shocked if he's moved by the deadline.
At the same time, with Morant, it feels like I'll
be surprised if he's still on the Grizzlies on February sixth.
Speaker 2: I lean that way too, just because what is the
hypothetical where later you'll be able to get more for him,
Because like, I don't feel like the situation is gonna change.
I would imagine if he's on the team pass the deadline,
he's just not playing anymore. Like they'll they'll they'll tray
young it where it's at. Quad's really barkin or like
that knee horness or whatever. Like, I don't see a
way for him to rehabilitate his value this year. Maybe
I'm wrong, but you know that's that's the reason you
move him sooner. You just also just hanging over the team.
Speaker 1: No you don't, and what are you gonna do? Send
him away? And then that just makes it look even worse.
And although might they be prepared, like could they just
hope that a team, if you're gonna shut him down
for the rest of the season, just gets desperate over
the summer. Because I can't remember who was talking about this,
might been Zach Lowe that there's now the theory floating
around that they renegotiated extended Jared Jackson Junior, then he
had surgery. We haven't seen Scottie Pippen Junior or tied
to Rome as we're talking about this. Zach Heaty has
been just so injured. Was Memphis like always set up
to stealth they traded Desmond Bane and we were supposed
to believe that they weren't ready to rebuild. Yeah, were
they just stealthily already kind of throwing away this year?
Speaker 2: That's interesting. It feels like a sort of but the
but then yeah, I don't know, I kind of feels
like there was just more bad luck occurrences than anything else.
But but but now it's like, well, that's what you
probably should do. I guess that's I hadn't really thought
about that, But like the Baine trade is instructive, right,
like you you had to squint pretty hard.
Speaker 1: I actually too. Yeah, it was we called it. It
was No, this isn't a reorient This isn't like a reorientation.
This is a redirect. This was a complete redirect of
their timeline.
Speaker 2: And I think charitably you could say, like you just
say yes to that, like you just because the return
was sufficient and you get more flexible and whatever. But
you can't say we did that because we thought it
made us better this year. So I mean that's just
to your point of like this this season may never
have been about putting the best possible product on the floor.
It may have been about like trying to do closer
to the opposite. I think that's that's fair.
Speaker 1: I can't believe we just traded Jonathan Kaminga and got
the Warriors. John Moran, Is that a character upgrade?
Speaker 2: Probably not? Actually, Actually no, everybody seems the thing Jonathan
Kminga is that Okay, dude, he's just like unrealistic about
how good he is.
Speaker 1: I would like to know Grizzlies fans, go on our
discord or comment on YouTube if you're listening watching what
they actually think of that type of a return where
it's you're getting moody, healed monk and maybe a do
we just say the first round pick from.
Speaker 2: Which is gonna be yeah, fifteen to.
Speaker 1: From my perspective, But I just don't know if I'm
so out of ran I'm just like, yeah, you do that.
I don't like yeah, maybe, I don't know.
Speaker 2: We'll see. This is gonna be one of the most
fascinating subplots of because the tree Young thing was like,
I feel like the moment it happened, everybody's like, yeah,
I get it. But Moran feels a little different somehow.
So we'll this will we'll see, we'll see what that
return looks like.
Speaker 1: Another elephant in the room. Should they be shopping Jaron
Jackson Junior? And I do think that this is might
be more of a larger conversation of because it's easy
just to sit here and say, Jaron Jackson Junior is
going to be the basis around which they build everything
from here, okay, cool, Then you still need a best
player on your team, and this bleeds into then a
conversation about what are teams still willing to give up
for guys who are on these large deals but they
can't be the best player on a title contender. And
I realized that we're really shrinking, Well, was there ten
to fifteen guys? Maybe you could be the best player
on a title contender. That almost kind of feels like
the point I mentioned this to you off air. It
used to be, oh, can we afford to max out
our thoat? Like remember the bucks with Middleton and Drew
Holliday and Giannest And now it feels like the conversation
has shifted it upward to is our second guy a
max player? And if he's not, what is a Jaron
Jackson junior actually get you on the trade market? And
it's not, by the way, it's not just him, it's
a what would bam Auta bio get on the trade market?
Right now? Does Jaron Jackson jars you're getting you three
first round picks? My gut says yes, But if if,
if it is three first round picks, is that enough
for Memphis to say he's not really like preventing us
from improving our draft lottery odds? This season, We're just
gonna sit tight and see where we're at over the offseason.
I don't know what they should do with him. My
inclination is if there's an offer that's three first round
picks or the equivalent, I'm really listening. We could just
burn the whole thing down at this point.
Speaker 2: So a couple of things. This is a great discussion.
I love I love this this topic of like how
are we valuing players again? And part of that is
because Bay, I know it's a five first. It wasn't really,
but Baine's sort of okay, let's use the five first
as the well the band return.
Speaker 1: The caveat there though, is is part of that compensation
was the Grizzlies got no players of real value to
the rest of Leeds back. They took on a KCP
deal that aged poorly. Cole Anthony, they bought him out.
He clearly didn't have a market. So that's like to me,
I look at that as more. They got three first.
Speaker 2: Round picks, Okay, okay, so that's fine. And then then
I would also cite Mchael Bridges, I would cite the
perceived asking price for Trey Murphy. These types of guys
I guess it's as simple in some sense as saying,
like it costs more now to get players that you
can say, we will integrate this guy with no we
have no questions about fit whatsoever. This is a plus
starter that will fit and make us better, and so
we're paying a premium for that portability, I guess, And
to me, Jackson feels closer to that player type or
maybe even like an elevated version of that than just
like Morant is the complete opposite where it's like or Trey,
where it's like we're changing the bonus. Yeah, it's a
bone like or Ad in Toronto, like whoever you want
to use. It's like part of its risk, part of
its cost, part of its whatever. But it's also just
like I think teams are willing to pay more, like
to avoid the hassle and like subsequent decisions you've got
to make to onboard someone that like fundamentally changes everything
you do. Now. Jackson is like a tricky player because
he is good enough to where he's not good enough
to be the best player, right. I think I agree
with you that, like, if you're keeping him in Memphis,
you need somebody better. Just that's not saying he's not
really good, but that's just what it looks like to me.
But Jackson is like a just to use Baine as
a point of comparison, is Jackson any harder to integrate
and to just like throw him on a random team
then than Bain is? Like Bain Is plays a position
that's like he does all the things that position is
supposed to do well to very well in theory, at
least on both ends. And Jackson kind of is that
except like also at a premium position. You know, if
you think he's if he can play center. So why
isn't he definitely worth more than Baine, especially considering Bain
is like very well compensated for his position, which is
like a higher replacement. It's easier to replace Baine than
it is to get someone that does what Jackson does. So, like,
why aren't we talking about like this is a four
to five actual first round pick guy for Jackson?
Speaker 1: Why isn't it that I think it's isn't there a
wild card element to him? Even on the offensive end.
We know that he's improved as kind of an on
ball score as of right now, in the past month,
he has been hitting his threes but like that comes
and goes. There's the foul trouble on defense, which is
is low hanging fruit, but it's a real thing. And
then also is he better suited? I know he could
play both the four or the five? What is his
optimal position? Because of the rebounding issues with him, it
almost feels like it needs to be the four. Lets
him defend away from the basket too. And so if
you're a team that doesn't think they already have someone
who can either a control the glass or a center,
then like that could that could be a little gaming,
But I think it's more the if you're gonna pay
someone thirty plus percent of the salary cap more, what
is he had twenty eight percent of the set close
to thirty percent of the salary cap? Yes, forward, he
needs to be more dependable than Jaron Jackson junior. Like
he's had a bunch of injuries that he's dealt with.
And then the other thing is is Graham, do you
know what his career high is in minutes per game?
Speaker 2: Oh, that's a great question. I haven't looked. I'm gonna
guess it's like thirty two.
Speaker 1: It is it is still loading here lower than that
his career high minutes per game. Oh, it's thirty two
point two. So he's averaged over thirty minutes per game
twice in his career. He's averaged over thirty minutes per
game while playing in more than forty games just once.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, so it sounds like what you're saying is
is kind of my contention that, like, well, isn't Jackson
just like a premium version of the Fits Anywhere role player?
Maybe not, because you do actually have to make some
adjustments elsewhere in your like team makeup to compensate for
the fouling and the rebounding and the cost. He makes
more than Baine does.
Speaker 1: And it's I think it's probably more so for me.
Would be the offense though, because he is dependable for
what he does on defense, there's gonna be flaws to
every player and you could get Look the Celtics are proof.
You can go get your rebounding from the wings if
you if you really need to, not ideal, but on offense,
it's if we're paying this much because and this isn't
a gener Jacktion New Year specific I'm I don't know
what I would give up to get bam Atibayo on
my team right now. I think he is a generational
defender whose offense I think part the Heat have asked
him to like change too many different times, but he
feels like someone who needs to have the option of
being spoon fed looks and Jackson to me, even with
his development as an on ball score a guy who
can maybe draw valves, I don't like, do you trust
him creating from a dead stop at like anywhere on
the floor. I mean we've seen it though, like yeah,
for how many That's not for a fraction of his
career right well, that is like maybe that's the core
issue with him is is I don't We've done a
couple of records in a row now, so I can't
remember if I said this on air or off, but
it's like he's been several different players, and like the
three point shooting shows up and then it's gone, and
then the isolation offense shows up and then it's gone.
So it's like there is a level of uncertainty that
makes you uncomfortable if you're talking about a Bain esque
or greater than trade package for him.
Speaker 2: But like with Bain though, so if Bain doesn't shoot it,
and he didn't to start the season for Orlando. Like
that trade looks like shit, right, because it's like, if
Baine's not shoot shoting it, he's a passable defender. But
if Jackson's not shooting it, he's still an all defensive
level player that might be able to isolate and score
that way. So it's like it's not a fair comparison,
but they come from the same team and we're talking
about similar packages. I just even if Bain costs I
don't know, like five ten percent less annually than Jackson does,
I just think Jackson's the things he can give you
at that position, he just has to be more valuable
than Baine, which means.
Speaker 1: He's more of an anomaly at his yeah, as.
Speaker 2: Harder to find, which I just think if Bain got
you three for real, if we're saying that's three for
real first round assets, Jackson, it was for a swap,
right right, that's the floor. But you're right that like,
well you had to take back KCP and Cole Anthony
who you dumped and all this other stuff. But like
which I guess Jackson just has to return more.
Speaker 1: I write, and so I think he gets you at
least three first round picks. The problem is is that
doesn't it feel like even teams now, like I know,
the Orlando trade just happened over the off season, which
team is going to be willing to do even the
exact equivalent you get off of some bad money for
Let's use the Raptors as an example. Are you giving
up if you can get off the parole contract? Are
you giving four first round picks in a.
Speaker 2: Swap in season like right now? Today?
Speaker 1: Yeah, tomorrow?
Speaker 2: Because part of this is I actually do think waiting
on Jackson for the off season makes it much more
likely you're going to get a better return. But that's
kind of a separate.
Speaker 1: Yea, because we've never seen when's the last Because it
wasn't Luca the last mid season pick Hall trade like that.
Speaker 2: I'm sure there's one out there. I just you know you.
I would trust you to remember that better than I would.
But yeah, it's it's hard. Nothing jumps to mine. That's
that's for sure.
Speaker 1: I mean the James Harden deal, that might dad to
be it the first one, Okay, yeah, okay, yeah, well
I no, Phoenix getting Kevin Durant.
Speaker 2: Yeah, those those all worked out great too. So maybe
that's a reason that I don't know, Wait, what's the
what's the question pertol and four first or something? What
are we talking like?
Speaker 1: There's other there has to be other money in there,
But is that because I'm asking what would it take for?
Because I think it's fair for Memphis. I mostly I
was pointing out playing Devil's Advocate a lot with Aaron
Jackson Junior. But I'm wondering if team mindsets are continuing
to shift to where even the opportunities to get the
bane type return where you're taking on some bad money
if you're not giving up like a consensus all NBA player.
And yes, he was basically that last year. It was
the first time he was ever that. Yeah, and so
that's what I'd be worried about it. So I'm just
wondering what would be the Because it's John Morant, you
just have to move even though it's about you can't.
You're not rebooting his value, at least not in Memphis.
The situation is too far gone. That's not the case
with Jaron Jackson Juior. So everyone could sit here and say, yeah,
it makes more sense for Memphis to tear town. Like
what is the what is the pick number or something
that is going to come in and make them, whether
it's now, whether it's over the off seat, that makes
you think, oh, this is worth it to get because
you just said it needs to be more than Baan
And so I'm saying, if someone came in with the
exact type of offer, is that enough to get Memphis
to do it or do they view it as no,
like we should hold out and hope that we reboot
this thing faster.
Speaker 2: I think maybe not for that reason necessarily, But I
think the way that this makes sense in my head
is to frame it with a question and ask if
the Grizzlies wait and don't do anything right now, our
offer is getting worse for Jared Jackson, Like, I don't
think so, because I think there's a good chance he
plays better. There's a good chance that more suitors are
you know, emerge in the off season.
Speaker 1: So like it.
Speaker 2: Maybe that's the way to look at it, as like, yeah,
unless you just get knocked over with an offer that's
like that's dumb, that's that's five real first round assets
or whatever, four real real ones like you do that,
I guess, but but I don't. I could imagine Memphis
being like we got to get jaw off the team,
and then after that we can be a little more patient.
We can wait till the summer. And like the Jackson
offers are not going away like that unless even if
he got hurt, I don't feel like he's going to
be devalued.
Speaker 1: That's a good point, because I mean towards keeping him.
I don't know what the offer would need to be
if it's right, if someone's just offering me three good
first round picks and it's not a nuclear bad contract,
like I'm listening, like that is getting you to talk.
I don't know if I'm but I think to your point,
we're worried about how much are team's going to be
willing to give up for these types of players moving forward.
I don't think whether it's now or whether it's in July,
that the gap between what you would get is going
to change much. I would argue it's not going to
change at all, and if anything, scorned but like playoff
teams might be more urgent over the off season as well.
Speaker 2: The only counter I could come up with for that
approach is like, well, if you wait until the offseason,
Jackson will be sought after by the same teams that
want Jannis or other superstar x and like the really
big offers are going to be reserved for him, and
by the time it comes back around to Jackson, Memphis
will not be able to get you know what I mean,
Like maybe the waiting. If you wait, you just put
yourself on the market against like better competition. Whereas at
the moment, like doesn't seem like Giannis is going anywhere.
I still think he should probably move, but like AD's
not going to reach so like you might be the
best thing on the market right now if you're Jackson,
and maybe Memphis tries to capitalize there, but even then
I still think I still think waiting. I still think
they shouldn't feel urgency to move Jackson at this trade deadline.
Speaker 1: So the overarching question here are there any players who
should actually be off limits? Is it just coward?
Speaker 2: Is it?
Speaker 1: And what is this direction? Is it? If you're moving
John Morant because the Grizzlies haven't does feel like, based
off some of the breadcrumbs in the Desmond paying trade
being the largest among them, that they are gearing up
for more of a gradual reset. Is that the play
if you're moving John Morant? Because I think there are
people that could add that he it's additioned by traction.
But I still even if you view it as that,
what are the Grizzlies good enough to do? Is there
then turn around and give up assets for a guy
that makes a lot of sense to lead them into
that next era? I because I lean towards the Yeah,
I'm not it's not true you have to trade Jaron
Jackson Junior. No, I'm with you. I don't think that
there needs to be urgency there. But I'm also just
there is there is that vibe of what are we
doing here after we trade Jamran? Their direction was hazy
before and without knowing the John Morant return or what
they're prioritizing in it, it feels like even hazier now
because there's there's a world like let's say they ship
him to Miami and in my head, I'm thinking Terry Roziers,
like the primary sally, what if it's for Andrew Wiggins?
Are they talking themselves? And like we got Wiggins and
Coward and we have John Wells and Jaron Jackson Junior
would if Zach Edy gets healthy. So it's more so
like what is Memphis? Is there a direction that should
anything be off limits for that, I honestly think they
need to just consider anything in everything At this point.
Speaker 2: I think I think there's it's not always bad if
it's a little hazy some sometime maybe often it is,
but like if if the kind of hazy or like,
I don't know, like we always we're always on every
team to like pick a direction. But for for the
Grizzlies in this hypothetical, they have all their own picks.
You've got Coward and Edie, which you know Edie's health
is a huge question mark, but like I feel pretty
good about those two guys as long term starters of
like a good team that you don't have the star.
But like with or without Jackson, I think the overall
outlook for Memphis is pretty positive, like pretty flexible. If
you do move Jackson for like a pick heavy package
and and no bad money, like then you're really like
that's a pretty hard reset, but it's one that's like
we already got a couple pieces in place in Edie
and Coward, and like you feel, I think you feel
okay about that as like a more deliberate reset, and
if you keep Jackson, then it's like, well, we just
kind of need. You know, we need someone better than him,
but we already have a fair amount of the infrastructure
in place.
Speaker 1: You could argue that if they're holding onto Jaron Jackson junior,
that they have eighty percent of their starting lineup of
the future on a really good team with Jollen Wells,
Coward Jackson and Edie. The Edy health question mark is.
Speaker 2: Huge, huge, But the way what you don't have in
that construction is like your best player, which is.
Speaker 1: And play, like even having Scottie Pippen junior is and
like Cam Spencer, that's just not going to be enough,
which I'm just like sort of curious, So is their
biggest need then just post John Morant because it can't.
Is it just indiscriminately a best player or at that
point it's well kind of needs to be your offensive
engine at that point.
Speaker 2: No, Yeah, And the problem is that it's not a
market that's going to attract free agents historically, and it's like,
so you're going to have to draft it. And then
if you're drafting that player hypothetically, like you're waiting three
four years for him to hit that level and by
then it's like, well, Jackson's into his thirties, and it's
super expensive, and so it's like we are kind of
like leaving the big thing for last, which is maybe
not the best way to build a team, but like
plenty of teams go like the Heat kind of have
done that, you know, like they to. But maybe you're
frustrated as a Heat fan in the post Jimmy world.
Speaker 1: One of the hypotheticals that was floated and I was,
I understand it from there's a lot of not redundancies,
But why would you have Hero Norman Powell Jamran on
the same team if he did, I don't think you're
getting credited to the Heat. I just think that would
be batshit crazy.
Speaker 2: Like everyone the laroche of it alone is just like
this is a non starter, right, I don't understand, right, but.
Speaker 1: Was if you got Tyler Hero for John Moran and
then it's you're still looking for your best player at
that point, but your best five man lineup is pretty
fucking good and.
Speaker 2: It all makes sense too, Like that lineup is just
like everybody compliments everybody. It just Jalen Wells guards who
Hero can't or Coward does it, and you've got spacing
inside like it's that's a really good lineup. I don't
think anyone's picking that team to win a conference, but like,
not everybody can be at that level.
Speaker 1: So I did endeavor to be like, Okay, the Grizzlies
have traded Djamrant the caveat. We don't know what they're
getting back, but we know it's not their cornerstone of
the future. So I tried to endeavor to find a
player or two that would then should they turn around
and trade for them, even if it's gonna cost assets.
I only came up with but mid season because of right,
like Darius Garland would be an interesting one him in
the combination of Jaredison June, but that to me feels
like it'd be an off season thing. I came up
with two. Did I feel like you could talk yourself
into maybe they'd be available mid season? Are you ready?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm excited.
Speaker 1: LaMelo Ball was one of them.
Speaker 2: Yeah, of course he was.
Speaker 1: What you just mean, like he fills the Ja Morant
hole right there, and it's like you're worried about floor spacing,
He's gonna at least provide that, maybe too much of
it with his one legged three pointers, but and the
other one, I thought he's injured right now too, But
that's no stranger for Memphis. Thing. Do you take a
flyer and what does it cost to get Scoot Henderson?
Speaker 2: Oh? I mean that that tickles my brain a little more,
just because it's kind of like he does fit into
the sort of mores deliberate like rebuild. We're on the
coward Edy timeline, longer shot than like what are the
odds Scoop becomes as good a player as LaMelo, Like
you'd probably say it's unlikely but not impossible, and you
may be buying him at a low. I like that
a lot. I think that because I think if you're
a Grizzlies fan, and I've had a poor read on
Grizzlies fans forever, because like a Keith Parrish when he
would come on, would just talk about how beloved Morant was,
and I'd be like, he still gotta get rid of
that guy.
Speaker 1: So I don't It's okay. I have a bad read
on Memphis for under normally, but I bet you do.
I hit there Under this year, I hit it.
Speaker 2: It's over. The streak is over.
Speaker 1: Uh.
Speaker 2: I can imagine were I a Grizzlies fan, Scoot is
like very fun and appealing as like because there's still
mystery box element with him, which not for good reasons.
It's because he's been hurt all year, but like there's
some of that I feel like with LaMelo. I don't know,
I kind of like LaMelo too, if I'm being honest, especially,
I would love.
Speaker 1: LaMelo Jackson with those LaMelo with Triple j Edi and
Wells and Coward, I'd absolutely love that.
Speaker 2: And I would say too, I think I think I
was gonna say, I think Jackson's a better player than LaMelo.
But with LaMelo, you're still getting the like there's he
could there's upside if he could stay healthy and like
the the now we're getting proved of concept offensively and
Charlotte finally with enough stuff around him, although like that's
the reason Charlotte wouldn't trade him, but still, like I
I could see the I see the upside being much
higher with LaMelo, but like the fit and mystery element
of Scoot and cost would would I would be interested
in that too.
Speaker 1: I had a couple other names. I don't know if
I would call him, like distressed, but they just weren't
as exciting to me. But Jared McCain if you're moving
on from If you're moving on from Ja Morant, I
thought about just as a stop gap and when is
he going to be healthy? But that depends on the
Grizzlies direction. I think this would kind of cement their
spot and I don't really know what they're doing. But
de Jontay Murray, Oh interesting, Yeah, forgotten player?
Speaker 2: Does Jaye and Ivy do anything for you? As like
that was the other name?
Speaker 1: Thought? Maybe like was he ever built as like the
playmaker type? Though I saw it wasn't one of his
comps Ja Morant. Wasn't that Jane Nile?
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, because like I think he may have been
billed as that at some point, but like once he
was driven off the lot, like draft pick wise, like
that was pretty clear it wasn't gonna happen. Uh, But yeah,
maybe it's in there. I don't know. You got the
draft pedigree, you've got the excuse of like, well, he
didn't know he was going to be next to like
an all NBA level first option and also he kept
getting hurt. Like there's a lot of things you could
point to you in Ivy's career that have that Maybe
if they were different, we would look at him as like, well,
I know he's going to be an All Star. I
don't know.
Speaker 1: This probably would have to be an off season for
like a free agencies thing if they were gonna have
to generate space or I don't know what they need
to do. But Austin Reeves.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean that's another one where it's like is.
Speaker 1: He better than Jackson?
Speaker 2: Like the guy that showed up at points this year
is certainly looked like it. That's fun.
Speaker 1: I like that.
Speaker 2: Plus he's from Arkansas, that's like down in that direction.
Maybe maybe that maybe that's like a marketable guy for
the Grizzlies because they would care. They will care about that.
When Moran's gone, is like, wh who are we selling
right now?
Speaker 1: Could you sell? And again this is not a lot,
these are just answers all over the place. Could you
sell Toronto on a Manuel quickly for Santi al Dama
and Kentavious Colo Pope as a structure.
Speaker 2: Toronto would have to be pretty confident it just wanted
out of the quickly business, which, yeah, maybe.
Speaker 1: Isaiah Collier not really a second draft guy.
Speaker 2: But yeah, yeah, I mean like with the way George
has emerged, it's like, well, how much. Are you gonna
invest in a backup lead guard? Now? Yeah, I don't know.
The shooting is a I get, although if you're gonna
have Jaron Jackson around, that does allow you to have
a sketchy shooter at a different position. Not optimal, though,
That's all.
Speaker 1: I had I thought. I think you just I can't
imagine his team training on but Andrew nemhard not really
best player material, of course, but that'd be interesting. I
can't really run I don't trust him to run your
entire offense though for a four.
Speaker 2: I mean, is there a world where a healthy Scottie
Pippen Junior is like just good enough to take over
and and you you know he's a he plays like
at a top fifteen level among starting point guards, and
you you reallocate stuff elsewhere.
Speaker 1: Maybe well, then where's like the best I guess it
comes from if you're were vision you.
Speaker 2: Move well to them or something.
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, it would be on the wing or maybe center.
But like who you if your best player is a
center and Edie's coming off the bench and you just
don't have Ed in that scenario, I don't Yeah, you'll
get Yeah, that'd be cool.
Speaker 2: I mean, the problem they really do in this construction.
They just they need the big like the lead ball
handler all NBA star, which is like, okay, cool, everybody does.
Speaker 1: What if they just turned around and became the honest team.
Speaker 2: That would be I mean him and Jaron Jackson, I do,
I do enjoy that fit? That's fun.
Speaker 1: Or it's like the cost of Anthony Davis drop so
low that it's like, well it's Ksep and Aldama and
minimal pick equity, maybe some others.
Speaker 2: But but you're just you're just telling me that you
don't believe either. I mean, yeah, I want to I
want to see a healthy edy with Jackson and Coward
and I guess wells distant fourth Wells and be like
what do we have here? Like what like what level
of primary creator do we need to turn this into
like a top fourteen in the conference.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's just still so much in place. That's why
it's interesting what happens after John Moran, I thought this
team was gonna be a bummer to talk about, end
up being a lot of fun. You have anything else?
We almost freaking that's our longest trade deadline primary Yet
you're welcome or we're sorry Grizzly spans.
Speaker 2: Also sorry to us if Jah gets traded in the
next six hours and this is all useless, so let's
get this up in a hurry to the British national team.
Speaker 1: My first instinct was they're not going to trade him
while they're in Berlin or London, right, and that would
be that would be the ultimate sign of just that's
the ultimate fu. They get traded while.
Speaker 2: Let's we have to we have to get out of here, see,
but just leave it up whatever happens. Who cares? Thanks
everybody for listening, for watching. Thanks to John Moran for
so much rich content. Please rate, review, subscribe, Grizzly fans,
let us we we've admittedly got terrible reads on your team.
Let us know what you think they will do, what
you think they should do? How into uh the sort
of like weight on it plan? Are you? Are you?
Speaker 1: How into Terry Rosieer's contract?
Speaker 2: Contract tolerance high extremely high? Join our discord links with
that YouTube podcast scription. Thanks An, Tell your friends, tell
your enemies shouts Franklin Latin apologies. Jarrett Allen