WEBVTT

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<v Speaker 1>That doesn't necessarily mean that bitcoin doesn't do well when

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<v Speaker 1>gold does well. I think it's a similar sort of

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<v Speaker 1>things benefit both currencies. But if I was to bet,

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<v Speaker 1>I think the next monetary system will still have the

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<v Speaker 1>dollar as a reserve currency. It'll have a bunch of

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<v Speaker 1>other vat currencies, but nations will settle global trade and

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<v Speaker 1>balances in gold.

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<v Speaker 2>a big believer in this project. I have been since

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<v Speaker 2>twenty eighteen. I've been a VET token holder for years,

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<v Speaker 2>and this blockchain is highly scalable, great with security and speed,

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<v Speaker 2>learn more about v chain, please visit vchain dot org

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<v Speaker 2>link will be in a description. Hey everybody, welcome into

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<v Speaker 2>the Thinking Crypto podcast. I'm your host, Tony Edward and

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<v Speaker 2>my guest today is Arthur Hayes, who is the co

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<v Speaker 2>founder of bitmex and the CIO and Maelstrom. Arthur, great

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<v Speaker 2>to have you on. Thanks for having me, Arthur, we

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<v Speaker 2>were talking before the recording. I followed you for years.

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<v Speaker 2>I appreciate your views on crypto as well as the

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<v Speaker 2>macro and boy do I have a lot of questions

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<v Speaker 2>for you because it's tariff torim oil out there. It's wild,

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<v Speaker 2>but you know, I want to get your background. I

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<v Speaker 2>usually love to hear about people's stories and how they

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<v Speaker 2>got to crypto. Where did you grow up, how did

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<v Speaker 2>you get into tradfi and how did that lead to crypto?

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<v Speaker 1>So I grew up in a small place called Buffalo,

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<v Speaker 1>New York. It's as industrial city in New York State,

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<v Speaker 1>in New York Canada, in the Great Lakes region of the

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<v Speaker 1>United States. I went to university in Philadelphia, at the

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<v Speaker 1>University of Pennsylvania Undergraduate Business School. And in university I

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<v Speaker 1>made a decision that I wanted to, you know, make

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<v Speaker 1>my mark in China. So I studied Chinese and moved

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<v Speaker 1>out to Hong Kong when I graduated and worked for

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<v Speaker 1>Deutsche Bank and City Bank in the tradi fi world.

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<v Speaker 1>I was an exchange traded market baker marketmaker for both

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<v Speaker 1>firms and helped them go that business in the region.

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<v Speaker 1>I subsequently lost my job at City thankfully, and in

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<v Speaker 1>twenty thirteen read the Bitcoin white paper, got hooked, started trading,

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<v Speaker 1>started bitmes by twenty fourteen with my other two co founders,

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<v Speaker 1>Ben Dilo and Sam Reid, and sort of the rest

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<v Speaker 1>is history.

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<v Speaker 2>And you mentioned you read the Big one white paper.

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<v Speaker 2>How did you learn about Bigcoe and a friend tell

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<v Speaker 2>you about it? Did you see in a forum? And

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<v Speaker 2>when did it click for you? What was your aha moment?

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<v Speaker 1>So I was a big, big zero hedge consumer ethic.

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<v Speaker 1>You know. Actually I think the content was a bit

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<v Speaker 1>better ten fifteen years ago, but whatever, that's just my opinion.

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<v Speaker 1>And they posted an article about this thing called bitcoin

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<v Speaker 1>that it I think surged in price to like tw

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<v Speaker 1>hundred fifty dollars or whatever it was back in spring

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<v Speaker 1>of twenty thirteen, and I thought that was quite interesting,

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<v Speaker 1>and so, oh, let me just read about it and

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<v Speaker 1>see what's what's going on? Because they didn't have a job,

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<v Speaker 1>and I was thinking about what I wanted to do next,

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<v Speaker 1>and sort of the philosophy and the ethos behind sound

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<v Speaker 1>money and the centralization really spoke to me. I was

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<v Speaker 1>a bit of a gold bug, you know. I had

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<v Speaker 1>my you know, little stash of gold coins and a

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<v Speaker 1>safety pots of the box because I thought the FED

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<v Speaker 1>was going to end the world and all kinds of

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<v Speaker 1>shit like that. So the the Satoshi's prophecies and sort

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<v Speaker 1>of teaching sort of really clicked with me on a level.

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<v Speaker 1>I was like, Wow, I could really get it on

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<v Speaker 1>the ground level here and hopefully build something quite impactful

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<v Speaker 1>in this bitcoin cryptocurrency ecosystem.

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<v Speaker 2>And then with bitmac, I mean, I remember you guys

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<v Speaker 2>had amazing volumes, you were doing so well. What happened

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<v Speaker 2>with bitmes and was it more of you know, we

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<v Speaker 2>find ourselves in the ky C a m L world now.

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<v Speaker 2>And then you guys kind of took a hit in

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<v Speaker 2>that way.

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<v Speaker 1>So obviously, you know, we had a bad rap going

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<v Speaker 1>up against the US government. We lost, you know, obviously

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<v Speaker 1>we've been vindicated posts but whatever, and you know, we

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<v Speaker 1>grew really fast, made some poor hiring decisions, and our

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<v Speaker 1>competitors were able to, you know, take what we built

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<v Speaker 1>and the products that we created and build a better

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<v Speaker 1>trading platform. And that's you know, that's hashtag business. So

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<v Speaker 1>but no, bit mix is still around. We're still trying

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<v Speaker 1>to make a comeback here. So the story is not

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<v Speaker 1>over yet.

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<v Speaker 2>And obviously you're an og Arthur when you look back

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<v Speaker 2>to where things were to cipher funk fung days of bigcoin,

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<v Speaker 2>and then you have this entire ascid class that was

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<v Speaker 2>birth out a bitcoin and where we are now with

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<v Speaker 2>tratify getting involved and ETFs and much more. How does

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<v Speaker 2>that feel? What are your thoughts around all of that change.

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<v Speaker 1>I think it's great. At the end of the day.

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<v Speaker 1>What's the point of bitcoin? It's a social experiment. Can

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<v Speaker 1>we create this monetary system in our minds out of

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<v Speaker 1>nothing that's based on computers and cryptography, and can this

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<v Speaker 1>mind virus spread all over the world and get other

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<v Speaker 1>people to believe that these bits of information have value

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<v Speaker 1>and can be used to buy real goods and services.

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<v Speaker 1>So it's amazing that all sorts of people, from governments

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<v Speaker 1>to large banks to asset managers are all you know,

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<v Speaker 1>treating bitcoin, have an opinion about it. Are talking about

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<v Speaker 1>whether it's good or bad. It doesn't really matter, but

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<v Speaker 1>it's in the conversation. I can't imagine there's any serious

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<v Speaker 1>investor out there in the world who doesn't know what

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<v Speaker 1>bitcoin is. Whether they think it's a scam or not,

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<v Speaker 1>it doesn't really matter. But we want to be recognized.

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<v Speaker 1>The worst thing is to be ignored.

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<v Speaker 2>And with the talks of bitcoin being part of a

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<v Speaker 2>reserve now in the United States, and you have other

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<v Speaker 2>nation states and countries that are mining bigcoin like Bhutan

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<v Speaker 2>and so forth, are we are there at the cusp

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<v Speaker 2>of another Breton Woods. Are we going to see bitcoin

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<v Speaker 2>sitting alongside gold backing FIAT?

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<v Speaker 1>I don't think so. I think that governments it's in

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<v Speaker 1>their best interest to maintain their power to issue their

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<v Speaker 1>own currency and do the type of things that they

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<v Speaker 1>do without good and bad. And if we're going to

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<v Speaker 1>go back to sort of a neutral reserve asset, I

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<v Speaker 1>think it's going to be gold because central bank managers

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<v Speaker 1>and governments have, you know, thousands of years of history

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<v Speaker 1>of using gold as a commodity form of money. This

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<v Speaker 1>sort of creates some stricture around how much people can

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<v Speaker 1>spend at the government level, so that doesn't necessarily mean

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<v Speaker 1>that bitcoin doesn't do well when gold does well. I

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<v Speaker 1>think it's a similar sort of things benefit both currencies.

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<v Speaker 1>But if I was to bet, I think the next

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<v Speaker 1>monetary system will still have the dollar as a reserve currency.

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<v Speaker 1>It'll have about rather fiat currencies, but nations will settle

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<v Speaker 1>global trade and balances in gold. Mm hm.

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<v Speaker 2>So I guess my question is maybe you touched on

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<v Speaker 2>this a bit, So where does bitcoin fit if that's

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<v Speaker 2>the case, right, and they're putting gold in the blockchain,

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<v Speaker 2>they're going to tokenize gold, So where does bitcoin fit?

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<v Speaker 2>Is it a hedge against all all of that the

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<v Speaker 2>fiata governments, even though it's being part of a government reserve.

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<v Speaker 1>Now well, I mean I think basically the US government

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<v Speaker 1>reserve is literally just you know, they still stole, seize

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<v Speaker 1>a bunch of bitcoin from people and they're not going

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<v Speaker 1>to sell it. That's what the reserve is. Other countries,

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<v Speaker 1>the reserve is, hey, we have excess energy and instead

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<v Speaker 1>of you know, wasting it somehow, we're going to save

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<v Speaker 1>it by mining bitcoin. And bitcoin is our energy saving.

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<v Speaker 1>So you have that in the Middle East, you have

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<v Speaker 1>that in China. You mentioned Bhutan as well as another

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<v Speaker 1>country with excess energy trying to do that as well.

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<v Speaker 1>So that's how I see bitcoin fitting into this. It's

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<v Speaker 1>just another system. It's a purely digital system. But if

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<v Speaker 1>we're talking about the evolution of monetary policy, I think

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<v Speaker 1>we're going to go back to something that you know,

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<v Speaker 1>the people in charge are very familiar with, which is,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, fiat currency is issued by relevant governments, and

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<v Speaker 1>when I trade with another government or system, I settle

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<v Speaker 1>in gold because I don't trust the management of your

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<v Speaker 1>fiat currency.

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<v Speaker 2>Interesting, so settling in gold, do you think then gold

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<v Speaker 2>might back? Some of these stable coins are CBDCs that

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<v Speaker 2>they're going to you know, obviously they're tokenizing the fiat currencies.

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<v Speaker 2>How do you how does that relationship work?

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<v Speaker 1>I have no idea. I mean, I I don't think

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<v Speaker 1>that matters one way or the other. I don't know

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<v Speaker 1>why you want to tree to tokenize version of gold.

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<v Speaker 1>People want to hold gold, right, that's the whole point

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<v Speaker 1>of it. If you want tokenize gold, I mean, it's

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<v Speaker 1>a different thing, but that's what bitcoin is. It's an

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<v Speaker 1>electronic version. It moves faster, it's got a different sort

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<v Speaker 1>of proper set of properties. But if you want a

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<v Speaker 1>whole gold. Tokenizing it means it gets trusting somebody else

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<v Speaker 1>to hold your goal. That's not the fucking point. The

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<v Speaker 1>point is to hold your own gold.

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<v Speaker 2>So let's talk about what's happening in the markets now

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<v Speaker 2>with the macro we got tierff madness happening, right, are

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<v Speaker 2>the give us the lay of the land. How are

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<v Speaker 2>you seeing this play? What is Trump trying to achieve here?

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<v Speaker 2>And how does this impact the markets this year?

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<v Speaker 1>I think that Trump has been very consistent with his message.

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<v Speaker 1>The execution has been iffy on it. But you know,

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<v Speaker 1>when he came into power in twenty sixteen, he kicked

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<v Speaker 1>off the first trade war with China and stuting in

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<v Speaker 1>twenty eighteen, and it's all about his belief and the

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<v Speaker 1>people who voted for him believe that America has gotten

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<v Speaker 1>a raw deal over the past fifty years, that China

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<v Speaker 1>and other countries, specifically China because they're the biggest beneficiary

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<v Speaker 1>of this, have taken advantage of the openness of American

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<v Speaker 1>markets and they've essentially built this amazing manufacturing juggernaut and

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<v Speaker 1>then stuffed America are full of cheap goods, and then

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<v Speaker 1>the American capitalists class have essentially sold out the the average

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<v Speaker 1>American worker by shipping all the best jobs overseas and

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<v Speaker 1>retaining all the profits in terms of high corporate profits

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<v Speaker 1>and shareholder returns at that level. And so that's sort

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<v Speaker 1>of his message. Now, he started out in twenty eighteen

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<v Speaker 1>with the trade ward in China kind of fizzled out

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<v Speaker 1>by the time he finished in twenty twenty. He campaigned

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<v Speaker 1>on a similar sort of promise in twenty twenty four.

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<v Speaker 1>Again similar similar ethos, America's gotten a bad deal. We're

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<v Speaker 1>going to come after all these countries who've been taking

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<v Speaker 1>advantage of us, and I'm going to unveil these you know,

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<v Speaker 1>mind bogglingly amazing tariffs in you know, very quickly into

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<v Speaker 1>my first term, my second term in office. And what

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<v Speaker 1>he do He tasked the people. I don't know which

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<v Speaker 1>cabinet official runs this thing, but he tasked them. They say, hey,

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<v Speaker 1>come up with a tariff plan by April second, and

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<v Speaker 1>they did it. And this is what it was. Now.

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<v Speaker 1>Obviously it was a lot more bombastic and bigger than

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of people thought. But again it fits with

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<v Speaker 1>the goal. There's a current account deficit that's in the

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<v Speaker 1>true llidon of dollars every year, he says, I want

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<v Speaker 1>to close that as quickly as possible. So they came

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<v Speaker 1>up with this formula. I mean, a lot of people,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, try to deride it as sixth grade math

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<v Speaker 1>and all these other things. But if his goal is

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<v Speaker 1>I want to remove this deficit that I have as

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<v Speaker 1>quickly as possible, then slapping on some massive tariff on

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<v Speaker 1>all these countries based on the annual deficit that they

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<v Speaker 1>have with the US makes a bit of sense. And

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<v Speaker 1>so that's what he's doing. Very consistent. The methods have

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<v Speaker 1>changed a bit, but he's very consistent. So I think.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, right now, people are I think, are in

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<v Speaker 1>the denial stage. Oh he's not that serious. If the

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<v Speaker 1>market drops another few percent, inequities he's going to stop

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<v Speaker 1>or what have you. But I don't think so. I

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<v Speaker 1>think he's going for broke on this. It's earlier in

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<v Speaker 1>his first term. The election, least for a lot of

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<v Speaker 1>Republican legislators is not until twenty twenty six in the

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<v Speaker 1>end of the year, so he has some time to

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<v Speaker 1>take some hits politically and economically before engineering what he

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<v Speaker 1>calls a glorious revolution in America. Coming into you know,

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<v Speaker 1>the third quart of twenty twenty six. So I think

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<v Speaker 1>we're in the start of you know, this is just

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<v Speaker 1>another sign post in the unraveling of this post nineteen

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<v Speaker 1>seventy one Fiat regime two thousand and eight was the

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<v Speaker 1>first tremor that was papered over with paid with printed money.

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<v Speaker 1>Then we had COVID, and now we have had this

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<v Speaker 1>and again it's a trend that was going to happen anyways,

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<v Speaker 1>Like I think that the US and the China will

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<v Speaker 1>decouple in a two different systems and then every country

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<v Speaker 1>will just kind of choose which said they're on.

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<v Speaker 2>Interesting, So do you think we might see the FED

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<v Speaker 2>use the same playbook it did in two thousand and

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<v Speaker 2>eight as well as twenty March twenty twenty where they

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<v Speaker 2>have to cut rates asap and also start the money

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<v Speaker 2>printer again.

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<v Speaker 1>Absolutely, I don't know what the trigger is going to be.

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<v Speaker 1>When you have, you know, this amount of carnage in

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<v Speaker 1>the trad fire mark, it's somebody's going to go bust.

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<v Speaker 1>And obviously we know that the system cannot allow any

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<v Speaker 1>of its vested interests, banks, large asset managers, interconnected hedge

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<v Speaker 1>funds to ever suffer catastrophic losses, and so the federal

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<v Speaker 1>step in, and maybe it won't be quy or money

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<v Speaker 1>printing as we traditionally understand it. Every time was a

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<v Speaker 1>bit different because internally, the Fed believes that they're fighting

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<v Speaker 1>the good fight, that they are you know, great stewards

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<v Speaker 1>of the United States dollar, that they are going to

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<v Speaker 1>make sure that inflation is contained, unemployment is low, and

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<v Speaker 1>you know, they are not going to engage in money

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<v Speaker 1>printing when inflation is above their two percent target. So

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<v Speaker 1>it might not be called q it might be something else. Right,

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<v Speaker 1>the twenty twenty three regional banking crisis, they created the

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<v Speaker 1>SINKLE the bank Term Funding Program, which I said was

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<v Speaker 1>a four trillion dollar money printing exercise. Now they didn't

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<v Speaker 1>call it quite a to the easing because technically, under

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<v Speaker 1>the economic definition how they define it, it's not so

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<v Speaker 1>they could said, no, I didn't print any money. I

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<v Speaker 1>just you know, supported the banking system. But it's all

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<v Speaker 1>the same thing. And obviously bitcoin sniffed through all that

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<v Speaker 1>bullshit and we went from twenty thousand to you know,

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<v Speaker 1>seventy thousand pretty quickly after they enacted that bailout. So

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<v Speaker 1>again we're going to get a bail out. I don't know,

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<v Speaker 1>what it looks like. But we know that it's going

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<v Speaker 1>to provide some sort of printed money in some way,

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<v Speaker 1>shape or form. But they're not going to call it

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<v Speaker 1>like they call everything else.

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<v Speaker 2>So is this you know what you're experience in tried

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<v Speaker 2>fy and much more? Is this the only playbook they

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<v Speaker 2>have there? There's no other solution, And until something changes,

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know, maybe in a one hundred years because

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<v Speaker 2>we're all in some super digital world where money and

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<v Speaker 2>everything is on the blockchain, I don't know. They have

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<v Speaker 2>another solution, and it's not for your currency.

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<v Speaker 1>So there is another solution. The solution is you had

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<v Speaker 1>a business, you made bad decisions, you went bankrupt, and

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<v Speaker 1>we allow you to go bankrupt and the creditors take

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<v Speaker 1>off your business. That is how capitalism is supposed to work.

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<v Speaker 1>They tried a bit of that in nineteen twenty nine.

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<v Speaker 1>Nobody really liked it. That's hard to get re elected

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<v Speaker 1>when you actually let the vested interests go bankrupt. And

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<v Speaker 1>so they said, Okay, every time the system has to

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<v Speaker 1>reset and expunge credit from it, we're going to make

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<v Speaker 1>sure that it never happens, and we're going to backstop

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<v Speaker 1>the system. And that is what the Federal Reserve in

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<v Speaker 1>the US Treasury Department has done ever since, if it's

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<v Speaker 1>been created in nineteen thirteen, there's never apart from the

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<v Speaker 1>Great Depression, which you know was a little bit of that.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, the Treasury Secretary at the time, Andrew Mellon,

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<v Speaker 1>had a famous quote saying, liquidate labor, liquid a capital,

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<v Speaker 1>stop people from living on the hot, living high, make

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<v Speaker 1>them be more responsible kind of thing, right, That is

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<v Speaker 1>not a great way to get re elected. Argentina is

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<v Speaker 1>trying it, but they've been doing money printing in the

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<v Speaker 1>most egregiously aggressive fashion since you know, Peronne and Kitchener

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<v Speaker 1>for the last five years. So that's a reaction to that.

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<v Speaker 1>But you know, look at the rhetoric from Trump and

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<v Speaker 1>she and the leaders of the EU and Japan. No

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<v Speaker 1>one's saying, hey, we spend too much money, we borrow

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<v Speaker 1>too much in the future. So I'm sorry people today,

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<v Speaker 1>we're going to have to take a bit of some

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<v Speaker 1>harsh medicine and retrench of it. Now they're saying, I

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<v Speaker 1>have an answer. It's you know, more government, it's money printing.

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<v Speaker 1>It's all these different types of things. Even Trump, who's

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<v Speaker 1>not exactly the most more government types of person. His

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<v Speaker 1>plan is to move from a seven percent budget deficit

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<v Speaker 1>by to a three percent budget deficit by twenty twenty eight.

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<v Speaker 1>His plan is not to move from a seven percent

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<v Speaker 1>budget budget deficit to a government surplus because that would

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<v Speaker 1>require a lot of cutting of government spending. So again,

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<v Speaker 1>even Trump, the most you know anti government, you know

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<v Speaker 1>he's got elon swinging a head sledgehammer with his Apartment

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<v Speaker 1>of Government efficiency thing, is not even saying he wants

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<v Speaker 1>to move to a primary surplus and his domain so austerity.

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<v Speaker 1>This notion that we're going to reduce the amount of

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<v Speaker 1>credit fiat within the system is not the policy. It

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<v Speaker 1>is money printing, both in different ways depending on the

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<v Speaker 1>cultural sensitivities of your particular nation state. But that is

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<v Speaker 1>the only answer they have because the other answer of

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<v Speaker 1>credit destruction, means that all of them won't be in

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<v Speaker 1>power anymore.

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<v Speaker 2>So in addition to that, right being close to the

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<v Speaker 2>money printer, whichever president they're a Democrat or Republican, Right,

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<v Speaker 2>there's a temptation there, right, print our way out. It

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<v Speaker 2>puts Jeck. Liquidity solves the problem I get re elected.

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<v Speaker 2>In addition to that, is it also the world we

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<v Speaker 2>live in everybody's retirement is tapped into the stock market

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<v Speaker 2>would leverage, and if you let the collateral go down

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<v Speaker 2>too far, people lose faith in the system and they'll

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<v Speaker 2>be rioting in the streets. Like I just think about

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<v Speaker 2>the boomers, right and all their retirement and everything like that.

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<v Speaker 2>They can't let this thing go to zero. I mean,

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<v Speaker 2>but do you care of a bunch of geriatrics around

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<v Speaker 2>the street. What are they gonna do? But you know

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<v Speaker 2>what I mean, not just.

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<v Speaker 1>But also people on a zepic in the street, what

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<v Speaker 1>are they gonna do? Like the young it's the young

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<v Speaker 1>people who you know, they're watching their parents are like,

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<v Speaker 1>oh wow, I can't buy a house. You know, my

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<v Speaker 1>job sucks if I can get one? What is this

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<v Speaker 1>life that I busted my ass to go to university for?

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<v Speaker 1>And yet my parents on all the assets and are

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<v Speaker 1>the richest generation in human history. So I think there's

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<v Speaker 1>a generational conflict going on. And yes, if you let

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<v Speaker 1>the system collapse or retrench to a more sustainable level,

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<v Speaker 1>I bet the gen z and younger would feel hopeful

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<v Speaker 1>again about their future, that they had something to look

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<v Speaker 1>forward to, something to build a family for, rather than

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<v Speaker 1>this abject just sort of like dystopia, lying flat, all

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<v Speaker 1>these different things. Every single culture has a manifestation of

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<v Speaker 1>this ire against the boomers and what they've constructed. So yes,

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<v Speaker 1>if they let the system collapse, I think the younger

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<v Speaker 1>generation would cheer it. Mm hmm.

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<v Speaker 2>I guess this goes out into bigger things. But that's

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<v Speaker 2>probably why you're seeing the decline in birth rates and population.

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<v Speaker 1>Right.

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<v Speaker 2>The boomer was was, I believe, the biggest boom and

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<v Speaker 2>babies and things like that. That economy was driven by

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<v Speaker 2>that demographic, but then it started ramping down and we're

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<v Speaker 2>getting the bad end of the stake, so to speak,

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<v Speaker 2>with the boomer economy and folks begetting disenfranchised.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Absolutely, I think there's generational warfare going on. And

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<v Speaker 1>if you look at who's in charge of every major

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<v Speaker 1>you know government, that's you know Gen X and boomers

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<v Speaker 1>who are the ones in charge.

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<v Speaker 2>Now? Are there? With this macerel uncertainty and fear and

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<v Speaker 2>what's happening in the markets, do you see the bigcin

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<v Speaker 2>cycle and even the bull market cycle extend further into

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<v Speaker 2>twenty twenty six? Last year we were ahead with the

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<v Speaker 2>ETF launch, Bitcoin hit a new all time high before

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<v Speaker 2>the having but it seems like things are slowing down.

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<v Speaker 2>Do you think it pushes into twenty twenty six.

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<v Speaker 1>So first, I think we're still in a bull market.

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<v Speaker 1>Right We've had a thirty ish percent correction from the

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<v Speaker 1>all time high, perfectly normal for bickad. We'll see if

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<v Speaker 1>were you're able to hold the seventy thousand market. If

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<v Speaker 1>we continue to get another downdraft in the price, I

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<v Speaker 1>think we will let TBD on that. And again I

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<v Speaker 1>try not to get sucked into this. Bitcoin must have

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<v Speaker 1>this four year cycle and the having being the starting

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<v Speaker 1>of the of the run upwards. Yes, it's worked in

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<v Speaker 1>the past, doesn't necessarily mean work in the future. I'm

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<v Speaker 1>more concerned about global liquidity. We know that bitcoin is

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<v Speaker 1>now more entrenched and more believed to be the only

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<v Speaker 1>true free market where I can know what does the

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<v Speaker 1>world think about how much units of fiat are slashing

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<v Speaker 1>around and will be slashing around in the near future.

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<v Speaker 1>That is bitcoin. It's straight twenty four to seven. No

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<v Speaker 1>sypral bank controls that, no government control That's why, that's

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<v Speaker 1>why it exists. And so I think if we believe

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<v Speaker 1>that we're at this moment where we're transitioning into a

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<v Speaker 1>different monetary system, different trade system, and we know that

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<v Speaker 1>every single major leader wants to cushion the blow to

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<v Speaker 1>their population by doing some sort of fiscal or monetary

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<v Speaker 1>accommodation money printing. Then I think we're at a moment

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<v Speaker 1>where we could see, you know, the cycle extend, possibly

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<v Speaker 1>passes four years, or maybe we just get a really

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<v Speaker 1>really intense, compressed run up to a million or some

408
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<v Speaker 1>ridiculous number that no one could imagine it as possible,

409
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<v Speaker 1>is at a short period of time, because Bitcoin is saying, yes,

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<v Speaker 1>there's going to be so much money printing compressed in

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<v Speaker 1>such a short period of time because we're moving to

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<v Speaker 1>a new system, and therefore the price of bitcoin should

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<v Speaker 1>be some ridiculous number.

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<v Speaker 2>Hmm. If the Fed does go back to some sort

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<v Speaker 2>of a qui right and whatever they call it, do

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<v Speaker 2>you see kind of a march or a's say, twenty

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<v Speaker 2>twenty after March, that strong run up like what you're saying,

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<v Speaker 2>like maybe to one fifty by the end of Q

419
00:22:06.960 --> 00:22:10.319
<v Speaker 2>two or Q three, and then but it's not following

420
00:22:10.400 --> 00:22:13.279
<v Speaker 2>maybe the normal four year cycle. We we don't have

421
00:22:13.319 --> 00:22:15.519
<v Speaker 2>a true bear market like we've seen historically.

422
00:22:16.400 --> 00:22:18.359
<v Speaker 1>I mean, there definitely will be a bear market for sure,

423
00:22:18.599 --> 00:22:22.000
<v Speaker 1>because our expectations of what the future amount of FIAT

424
00:22:22.039 --> 00:22:25.680
<v Speaker 1>growth outpaced what actually happens. Right. But I think if

425
00:22:25.680 --> 00:22:27.519
<v Speaker 1>we're talking about what's going to really going to reignite

426
00:22:27.559 --> 00:22:30.920
<v Speaker 1>bitcoin from this you know, seventy to one hundred thousand

427
00:22:31.240 --> 00:22:33.640
<v Speaker 1>chop that we've been in for the last few months,

428
00:22:33.680 --> 00:22:38.920
<v Speaker 1>I think it's the FED capitulates. Then the you know,

429
00:22:39.079 --> 00:22:43.519
<v Speaker 1>PBOC allows you on to weaken or at least stay

430
00:22:43.599 --> 00:22:45.880
<v Speaker 1>consistent with the FED. They can print as much money

431
00:22:45.880 --> 00:22:48.880
<v Speaker 1>and you know, stay tread water. You have the EU

432
00:22:48.960 --> 00:22:52.720
<v Speaker 1>printing money to build bombs, and then you have Japan.

433
00:22:53.079 --> 00:22:57.279
<v Speaker 1>The bog might stop its normalization of rates exercise and

434
00:22:57.359 --> 00:23:00.480
<v Speaker 1>go back to printing money so that Japan can regain

435
00:23:00.519 --> 00:23:05.160
<v Speaker 1>some export competitiveness against China. So again, I think that

436
00:23:05.160 --> 00:23:08.480
<v Speaker 1>that is what can take us into the two fifty

437
00:23:08.519 --> 00:23:11.039
<v Speaker 1>and above levels for bitcoin.

438
00:23:11.519 --> 00:23:16.920
<v Speaker 2>Very quickly, let's talk about Mailstrom. What are you and

439
00:23:17.039 --> 00:23:20.200
<v Speaker 2>Mailstrom investing in? Are you guys holding bitcoin all coins

440
00:23:20.240 --> 00:23:22.000
<v Speaker 2>are investing in crypto companies as well?

441
00:23:23.119 --> 00:23:26.519
<v Speaker 1>So you know, our fund which is basically not basically

442
00:23:26.599 --> 00:23:28.160
<v Speaker 1>is all of my money, So we're not really a

443
00:23:28.160 --> 00:23:31.160
<v Speaker 1>traditional venture capital fund in that sense you don't have

444
00:23:31.200 --> 00:23:36.000
<v Speaker 1>external wipes. We write small checks for early stage projects,

445
00:23:36.079 --> 00:23:39.079
<v Speaker 1>fifty one hundred thousand dollars checks. We do a lot

446
00:23:39.079 --> 00:23:42.359
<v Speaker 1>of advisory. So obviously the best project we've advised so

447
00:23:42.400 --> 00:23:45.359
<v Speaker 1>far has been Athena, a standout project in the synthetic

448
00:23:45.599 --> 00:23:49.720
<v Speaker 1>dollar stable coin field. And then we do a bunch

449
00:23:49.759 --> 00:23:54.119
<v Speaker 1>of liquid trading. And so right now we've slowed down

450
00:23:54.519 --> 00:23:57.799
<v Speaker 1>on the early stage token stuff. We believe the prices

451
00:23:57.799 --> 00:24:00.839
<v Speaker 1>are too high, the thing that we're seeing are not

452
00:24:00.920 --> 00:24:06.079
<v Speaker 1>that compelling. Obviously, we're still advising projects like Athena and

453
00:24:06.119 --> 00:24:09.480
<v Speaker 1>Aptose and those sorts of things. And some of the

454
00:24:09.519 --> 00:24:13.599
<v Speaker 1>money that we've made we've harvested probably in early first

455
00:24:13.680 --> 00:24:16.319
<v Speaker 1>quarter because I believe that there was going to be

456
00:24:16.599 --> 00:24:19.279
<v Speaker 1>a large sol off due to Trump's inauguration as sell

457
00:24:19.359 --> 00:24:23.799
<v Speaker 1>the news type of situation, and so right now we've been,

458
00:24:24.079 --> 00:24:29.880
<v Speaker 1>you know, steadily redeploying that capital, mostly into bitcoin. I

459
00:24:29.880 --> 00:24:32.599
<v Speaker 1>think that bitcoin dominance, which is the percentage of bitcoin

460
00:24:32.799 --> 00:24:36.160
<v Speaker 1>relative to the entire crypto market cap, will continue to rise,

461
00:24:36.200 --> 00:24:39.240
<v Speaker 1>and we're going to go somewhere close to seventy percent

462
00:24:39.359 --> 00:24:42.039
<v Speaker 1>right now, so I'm like sixty two sixty three percent

463
00:24:42.880 --> 00:24:44.839
<v Speaker 1>and so once we get up there instead of maybe

464
00:24:44.839 --> 00:24:47.079
<v Speaker 1>bitcoins at one hundred and ten, one hundred and fifty whatever,

465
00:24:47.279 --> 00:24:50.759
<v Speaker 1>some level much higher, then we start to see a

466
00:24:50.839 --> 00:24:54.519
<v Speaker 1>real all coin season. And then for projects that have

467
00:24:54.599 --> 00:24:58.200
<v Speaker 1>already been listed, we were very interested in projects that

468
00:24:58.319 --> 00:25:03.400
<v Speaker 1>have product market fit, that have protocol revenue, and have users,

469
00:25:03.400 --> 00:25:07.279
<v Speaker 1>which is a very small subset of projects, many of

470
00:25:07.279 --> 00:25:09.400
<v Speaker 1>whom we've already invested in and we've seen them grow

471
00:25:09.440 --> 00:25:11.799
<v Speaker 1>over the last few years, will double down on the

472
00:25:11.799 --> 00:25:14.880
<v Speaker 1>liquid side because their token prices have gotten so destroyed

473
00:25:14.880 --> 00:25:19.119
<v Speaker 1>because everyone just gravitating towards the highest quality crypto, which

474
00:25:19.720 --> 00:25:23.680
<v Speaker 1>is Bitcoin. And then obviously I think we'll get back

475
00:25:23.680 --> 00:25:27.519
<v Speaker 1>into whatever the shittiest of shit coin theme is for

476
00:25:27.839 --> 00:25:29.319
<v Speaker 1>this next leg of the cycle. I don't know what

477
00:25:29.400 --> 00:25:29.799
<v Speaker 1>that'll be.

478
00:25:30.640 --> 00:25:32.960
<v Speaker 2>What we think is meme coins, of return to meme coins.

479
00:25:33.960 --> 00:25:36.160
<v Speaker 1>I don't think the meme coins will return to the

480
00:25:36.200 --> 00:25:39.000
<v Speaker 1>same extent that they were, you know, six to nine

481
00:25:39.000 --> 00:25:42.839
<v Speaker 1>months ago. Yes, there'll be some meme coins that retain value,

482
00:25:43.240 --> 00:25:46.519
<v Speaker 1>and some of Murad's whatever thing will probably go open value.

483
00:25:46.559 --> 00:25:48.720
<v Speaker 1>Most of them will not. They'll just be stuck in

484
00:25:48.839 --> 00:25:52.200
<v Speaker 1>mumbo because I think the retail trader they did the

485
00:25:52.200 --> 00:25:56.039
<v Speaker 1>mean coin thing. They lost a bunch of money. There'll

486
00:25:56.039 --> 00:25:58.480
<v Speaker 1>be a new new thing that's shiny and new with

487
00:25:58.480 --> 00:26:01.000
<v Speaker 1>no history, and so everyone I'll gravitate towards that and

488
00:26:01.000 --> 00:26:02.720
<v Speaker 1>we'll be trading that. I don't know what that's going

489
00:26:02.799 --> 00:26:05.200
<v Speaker 1>to be, but we'll participate as well, because you know

490
00:26:05.319 --> 00:26:06.799
<v Speaker 1>when music is playing and got a dance?

491
00:26:07.839 --> 00:26:11.759
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, well, said Arthur. Is there any hoper etherorem I'm

492
00:26:11.759 --> 00:26:16.400
<v Speaker 2>an eth holders, It's I'm too. It's painful. Look at

493
00:26:16.440 --> 00:26:16.880
<v Speaker 2>that chart.

494
00:26:17.720 --> 00:26:20.279
<v Speaker 1>If you think about layer ones, and I try to

495
00:26:20.319 --> 00:26:22.079
<v Speaker 1>frame this as if I had a fresh unit of

496
00:26:22.119 --> 00:26:24.759
<v Speaker 1>FIA capital today and I was had to invest in

497
00:26:24.799 --> 00:26:27.559
<v Speaker 1>a layer one, which one would it be? Now? I

498
00:26:27.599 --> 00:26:32.920
<v Speaker 1>think Eth is the best relative performer, possibly for the future,

499
00:26:32.920 --> 00:26:35.759
<v Speaker 1>because it's the most it's the most hated layer one.

500
00:26:36.039 --> 00:26:38.559
<v Speaker 1>Everybody's dogging on it, saying, oh, they haven't done anything

501
00:26:38.599 --> 00:26:40.720
<v Speaker 1>in gears and blah blah blah. But if you look

502
00:26:40.720 --> 00:26:44.720
<v Speaker 1>at what theory is, it's the number two largest cryptocurrency

503
00:26:44.759 --> 00:26:48.839
<v Speaker 1>by market cap for a proof of steak system, It's

504
00:26:48.880 --> 00:26:51.200
<v Speaker 1>the most secure because it has the mouse amount of

505
00:26:51.319 --> 00:26:54.839
<v Speaker 1>value stake securing its network. It has the most amount

506
00:26:54.839 --> 00:26:57.960
<v Speaker 1>of developer activity and talent. Yes, you know, salon On

507
00:26:58.039 --> 00:27:02.319
<v Speaker 1>some other blockchains are catching up in that, but still

508
00:27:02.559 --> 00:27:06.319
<v Speaker 1>theorium is still the largest developer community for DeFi. Every

509
00:27:06.359 --> 00:27:09.519
<v Speaker 1>single major DeFi primitive began on ETH. So if you

510
00:27:09.559 --> 00:27:14.480
<v Speaker 1>want to think about the new developers creating the new

511
00:27:14.480 --> 00:27:19.559
<v Speaker 1>primitives that are going to derive the next you know, ave, compound, Uni, swamp,

512
00:27:19.960 --> 00:27:22.359
<v Speaker 1>those type of things, I think they're going to happen

513
00:27:22.720 --> 00:27:26.640
<v Speaker 1>on Ethereum versus any other other blockchain. Not to say

514
00:27:26.720 --> 00:27:30.960
<v Speaker 1>some of those other ones aren't good trading vehicles. That

515
00:27:31.119 --> 00:27:33.440
<v Speaker 1>is why I think. And then the only thing we

516
00:27:33.480 --> 00:27:34.960
<v Speaker 1>have people are mad is think, oh they have the

517
00:27:35.079 --> 00:27:39.359
<v Speaker 1>layer two sort of feet issues and the prices down.

518
00:27:40.039 --> 00:27:42.640
<v Speaker 1>You know, let's say if eth is rallying faster than

519
00:27:42.720 --> 00:27:45.359
<v Speaker 1>Solon or some of the other layer ones, everyone forgets

520
00:27:45.359 --> 00:27:47.200
<v Speaker 1>about all that shit and they remember, oh, yeah, it's

521
00:27:47.200 --> 00:27:49.720
<v Speaker 1>the biggest, it's the most secure, and then that's what

522
00:27:49.759 --> 00:27:51.440
<v Speaker 1>they start touting in their mind as the reason why

523
00:27:51.480 --> 00:27:54.759
<v Speaker 1>they need to own ETH. So again, I think if

524
00:27:54.799 --> 00:27:56.799
<v Speaker 1>you're looking at it from now to in the future

525
00:27:57.079 --> 00:28:00.319
<v Speaker 1>and on a risky war basis, I want to create

526
00:28:00.359 --> 00:28:02.160
<v Speaker 1>the thing or own the thing that's the most hated

527
00:28:02.200 --> 00:28:05.519
<v Speaker 1>of the previous cycle ethereum versus the thing that was

528
00:28:05.599 --> 00:28:08.119
<v Speaker 1>most loved, something like Solana. That's not to say that

529
00:28:08.160 --> 00:28:10.440
<v Speaker 1>Solana is not going to rip, you just won't rip

530
00:28:10.440 --> 00:28:11.400
<v Speaker 1>as much as eth.

531
00:28:13.079 --> 00:28:15.880
<v Speaker 2>Do you think what you usually we see like narratives, right?

532
00:28:15.920 --> 00:28:18.519
<v Speaker 2>Do you think a strong narrative and it's not really

533
00:28:18.519 --> 00:28:20.839
<v Speaker 2>a narrative would be a factual thing. But the SEC

534
00:28:20.960 --> 00:28:24.359
<v Speaker 2>is looking to add ether or staking to the etherorem

535
00:28:24.440 --> 00:28:28.000
<v Speaker 2>et aps and that could attract a lot of inflows.

536
00:28:28.160 --> 00:28:30.759
<v Speaker 2>Get the narrative out there that you can earn this yield.

537
00:28:31.440 --> 00:28:33.880
<v Speaker 2>Here's the mainstream folks, come on in, you know, earn

538
00:28:33.960 --> 00:28:36.720
<v Speaker 2>your yield, YadA YadA. But also the upgrades that are

539
00:28:36.720 --> 00:28:39.119
<v Speaker 2>going to be coming to native to the layer one

540
00:28:39.200 --> 00:28:41.160
<v Speaker 2>versus the layer two scaling solutions.

541
00:28:42.240 --> 00:28:45.599
<v Speaker 1>Maybe, but I don't think that TraFi doesn't set the narrative.

542
00:28:46.000 --> 00:28:49.039
<v Speaker 1>Retail DJ and set the narrative, and so the price

543
00:28:49.039 --> 00:28:53.000
<v Speaker 1>will rally well before if it does any of that stuff,

544
00:28:53.480 --> 00:28:56.599
<v Speaker 1>that'll just be icing on the cake. The Coimbra's rallying

545
00:28:56.640 --> 00:28:59.640
<v Speaker 1>well into the ETF, the black rock ETF and all

546
00:28:59.640 --> 00:29:02.480
<v Speaker 1>the other being launched. And then it became another reason

547
00:29:02.599 --> 00:29:06.119
<v Speaker 1>why people wanted to be long Bitcoin. It wasn't the

548
00:29:06.160 --> 00:29:10.079
<v Speaker 1>primary reason. So I don't I think that's a icing

549
00:29:10.079 --> 00:29:10.480
<v Speaker 1>on the cake.

550
00:29:11.160 --> 00:29:13.640
<v Speaker 2>Oh for sure. Now there's been a lot of talk

551
00:29:13.799 --> 00:29:17.519
<v Speaker 2>between Ethereum and Solona and the battle there. Do you

552
00:29:17.759 --> 00:29:20.480
<v Speaker 2>I see a lot of enterprise adoption happening around ethere

553
00:29:20.480 --> 00:29:23.359
<v Speaker 2>I mean black Rock they launched their tokenized fun on Eth.

554
00:29:23.480 --> 00:29:25.319
<v Speaker 2>Fidelity just came out and said we're going to watch

555
00:29:25.319 --> 00:29:27.319
<v Speaker 2>a stable coin and Eth. We're also going to tokenize

556
00:29:27.359 --> 00:29:30.799
<v Speaker 2>the fun on Eth as well. But Solana seems to

557
00:29:30.799 --> 00:29:32.839
<v Speaker 2>be more of the retail I want to launch NFTs

558
00:29:32.960 --> 00:29:35.759
<v Speaker 2>or meme coins. That's where I go. Is it is

559
00:29:35.799 --> 00:29:39.359
<v Speaker 2>it that you know? As far as the dichotomy between

560
00:29:39.359 --> 00:29:39.759
<v Speaker 2>the two.

561
00:29:40.440 --> 00:29:43.440
<v Speaker 1>I mean, I'm cripping something. That guy, the founder of

562
00:29:43.480 --> 00:29:47.559
<v Speaker 1>a penis aid the trad FI doesn't give a fuck

563
00:29:47.599 --> 00:29:51.400
<v Speaker 1>about later one blockchains and which one it is. They

564
00:29:51.440 --> 00:29:55.599
<v Speaker 1>care about where the users and if I'm a salesperson. Okay,

565
00:29:55.680 --> 00:29:57.680
<v Speaker 1>there's a big user base on Eath. I launched their

566
00:29:57.720 --> 00:30:00.079
<v Speaker 1>first Boom. I launched on Eth. Oh there's some lo

567
00:30:00.200 --> 00:30:02.160
<v Speaker 1>Solana who want my product boom a lotch on Slana.

568
00:30:02.279 --> 00:30:06.319
<v Speaker 1>People on Aptose, Yeah, launch on Aptose people on Sonic Lab. Yeah,

569
00:30:06.319 --> 00:30:08.799
<v Speaker 1>a lot, it's there, right, Like pick your layer one blockchain.

570
00:30:08.839 --> 00:30:12.680
<v Speaker 1>If you've got a differentiated instead of users, the end

571
00:30:13.039 --> 00:30:16.640
<v Speaker 1>product originator will issue there. They don't care about security

572
00:30:16.680 --> 00:30:19.039
<v Speaker 1>and all these decentralization, all these It doesn't matter because

573
00:30:19.039 --> 00:30:22.599
<v Speaker 1>it's a centralized product that they're selling anyways. They just say,

574
00:30:22.920 --> 00:30:25.440
<v Speaker 1>if somebody wants to buy my product and I can

575
00:30:25.480 --> 00:30:28.200
<v Speaker 1>integrate that, Okay, here's the cost of integration. Here's how

576
00:30:28.240 --> 00:30:31.480
<v Speaker 1>many people I can potentially sell this product to. If

577
00:30:31.519 --> 00:30:33.640
<v Speaker 1>the math makes sense, then I do it. It doesn't

578
00:30:33.680 --> 00:30:37.079
<v Speaker 1>matter what the blockchain is. So you might have chosen

579
00:30:37.079 --> 00:30:38.880
<v Speaker 1>to eat first, but they'll be on Solona pretty quick

580
00:30:38.880 --> 00:30:40.880
<v Speaker 1>and all the other ones down the line. So I

581
00:30:40.880 --> 00:30:44.920
<v Speaker 1>don't think that should be a reason for against investing

582
00:30:44.920 --> 00:30:48.759
<v Speaker 1>in a particular blockchain, because a traify asset measure does

583
00:30:48.799 --> 00:30:52.039
<v Speaker 1>not care what it is. Are there more people that

584
00:30:52.079 --> 00:30:52.960
<v Speaker 1>can sell this stuff too?

585
00:30:53.799 --> 00:30:56.480
<v Speaker 2>That's a great point because recently Securitized the announced that

586
00:30:56.559 --> 00:31:00.640
<v Speaker 2>black Rocks miiddle Fund moved to Solona as well. So

587
00:31:00.960 --> 00:31:03.119
<v Speaker 2>are they? Do you see the future being multi chain

588
00:31:03.279 --> 00:31:06.200
<v Speaker 2>and that there's going to be a good maybe twenty

589
00:31:06.240 --> 00:31:09.559
<v Speaker 2>blockchains running around the world and it will be consolidated

590
00:31:09.559 --> 00:31:09.759
<v Speaker 2>to that.

591
00:31:10.680 --> 00:31:14.200
<v Speaker 1>I mean we already in a multi chain, You're already

592
00:31:14.240 --> 00:31:16.599
<v Speaker 1>in the future, right, and there'll be infinite number of

593
00:31:16.640 --> 00:31:18.599
<v Speaker 1>it will be as many layer one blockchains. Other are

594
00:31:18.680 --> 00:31:22.000
<v Speaker 1>VC muppets willing to fund these things, right, So we've

595
00:31:22.000 --> 00:31:24.079
<v Speaker 1>got the barrier chains and the monads and the mega

596
00:31:24.119 --> 00:31:27.119
<v Speaker 1>eth and all these these other layer one things. Why

597
00:31:27.160 --> 00:31:31.279
<v Speaker 1>because you know, somebody in Western Europe and San Francisco

598
00:31:31.319 --> 00:31:32.640
<v Speaker 1>had a fuck ton of money and they had to

599
00:31:32.640 --> 00:31:35.079
<v Speaker 1>do crypto. So let's just throw these guys a bunch

600
00:31:35.079 --> 00:31:37.119
<v Speaker 1>of money to build the next fastest da da da

601
00:31:37.160 --> 00:31:40.319
<v Speaker 1>da da layer one blockchain with no fucking clients. Right,

602
00:31:40.359 --> 00:31:43.240
<v Speaker 1>So we're gonna have many more of those because once

603
00:31:43.240 --> 00:31:45.920
<v Speaker 1>this market recovers, and this is one of the best

604
00:31:45.920 --> 00:31:49.720
<v Speaker 1>performing subjects of asset management, guess what, all the money's

605
00:31:49.720 --> 00:31:51.960
<v Speaker 1>gonna flow over here and you're gonna have these mega funds.

606
00:31:51.960 --> 00:31:54.400
<v Speaker 1>With all this money, you need to deploy it. And

607
00:31:54.440 --> 00:31:56.680
<v Speaker 1>one of the best ways to deploy money very quickly

608
00:31:57.200 --> 00:31:59.799
<v Speaker 1>is a massive layer one project that aims to fix

609
00:31:59.839 --> 00:32:02.559
<v Speaker 1>it Ferium or fix Alana, or fix one of these

610
00:32:02.599 --> 00:32:05.480
<v Speaker 1>other you know, pick your later one blocking that they

611
00:32:05.519 --> 00:32:07.480
<v Speaker 1>want to fix and then they just get a hundred

612
00:32:07.519 --> 00:32:10.480
<v Speaker 1>few hundred million dollars from the usual suspects and they

613
00:32:10.519 --> 00:32:12.960
<v Speaker 1>go and build something that nobody needs. So again we're

614
00:32:13.000 --> 00:32:15.480
<v Speaker 1>gonna keep having that not gonna go away. And then

615
00:32:15.480 --> 00:32:17.480
<v Speaker 1>if they're a great party, so who am I at

616
00:32:17.480 --> 00:32:19.599
<v Speaker 1>a thairy shade, I'll keep kicking the free booze.

617
00:32:20.240 --> 00:32:22.640
<v Speaker 2>So on that note, right, is this the best macro

618
00:32:22.799 --> 00:32:25.359
<v Speaker 2>trade right now? And how long do you think these

619
00:32:25.440 --> 00:32:28.160
<v Speaker 2>type of returns stay in play? Is in the next

620
00:32:28.160 --> 00:32:30.400
<v Speaker 2>two bowl markets or just one more twenty twenty eight?

621
00:32:31.119 --> 00:32:33.640
<v Speaker 1>I mean, I think that this is the if you

622
00:32:33.720 --> 00:32:36.240
<v Speaker 1>want to talk about what is going to perform the

623
00:32:36.319 --> 00:32:40.000
<v Speaker 1>best when the people in charge reflate the system to

624
00:32:40.119 --> 00:32:45.119
<v Speaker 1>fight the change that's happening the global macro perspective, I

625
00:32:45.119 --> 00:32:48.160
<v Speaker 1>think crypto is the best place to be. Bitcoin as

626
00:32:48.200 --> 00:32:52.759
<v Speaker 1>restart the risk. The upside is, We've seen how bitcoin

627
00:32:52.880 --> 00:32:56.279
<v Speaker 1>is performed over since two thousand and eight until the

628
00:32:56.279 --> 00:33:00.319
<v Speaker 1>present with the FED to value the dollar effectively byranting

629
00:33:00.359 --> 00:33:03.559
<v Speaker 1>all that money. We've seen how bitcoin has performed when

630
00:33:03.599 --> 00:33:09.559
<v Speaker 1>the Chinese yuan has depreciated. We've seen how bitcoin has

631
00:33:09.599 --> 00:33:13.200
<v Speaker 1>performed in a global pandemic when the authorities flooded the

632
00:33:13.240 --> 00:33:16.799
<v Speaker 1>system with liquidity. Again, it's always been the best performing

633
00:33:17.640 --> 00:33:22.160
<v Speaker 1>asset relative to stocks or even gold, although I think

634
00:33:22.160 --> 00:33:23.960
<v Speaker 1>goal is going to have a great run as it's

635
00:33:24.000 --> 00:33:27.119
<v Speaker 1>reintegrated as a global neutral reserve currency. But at the

636
00:33:27.200 --> 00:33:29.440
<v Speaker 1>end of the day, Bitcoin has been the best performing

637
00:33:29.480 --> 00:33:32.480
<v Speaker 1>asset since two thousand and eight period. There's nothing else

638
00:33:32.480 --> 00:33:35.640
<v Speaker 1>has done better, and it will be continue to be

639
00:33:35.680 --> 00:33:38.400
<v Speaker 1>so because it's a small door relative to the gargantuan

640
00:33:38.480 --> 00:33:41.240
<v Speaker 1>infinite amount of FIA that needs to find a home

641
00:33:41.279 --> 00:33:44.599
<v Speaker 1>and a real asset, and it's portable. I get take

642
00:33:44.599 --> 00:33:47.480
<v Speaker 1>it anywhere, I can store it in my head. Right,

643
00:33:47.559 --> 00:33:50.240
<v Speaker 1>It's just one of those things. It's got the best properties,

644
00:33:50.319 --> 00:33:53.000
<v Speaker 1>and so as more people realize that, I think that

645
00:33:53.160 --> 00:33:56.440
<v Speaker 1>this is going to be the best expression of that trade. Yeah,

646
00:33:56.480 --> 00:33:58.680
<v Speaker 1>you can pick some stocks and maybe there's a few

647
00:33:58.680 --> 00:34:01.480
<v Speaker 1>commodities that will do well. Of course, if that's your thing,

648
00:34:01.720 --> 00:34:07.599
<v Speaker 1>there'll be definitely ways to earn so over average returns.

649
00:34:07.720 --> 00:34:09.639
<v Speaker 1>But again I think bitcoin does the best.

650
00:34:10.360 --> 00:34:15.280
<v Speaker 2>And of course the scarcity aspect, right, it's hard cap gold.

651
00:34:15.280 --> 00:34:18.079
<v Speaker 2>They're going to continue to mine more gold and stocks

652
00:34:18.119 --> 00:34:21.239
<v Speaker 2>and all that. You know, it's not hard cap like

653
00:34:21.239 --> 00:34:22.280
<v Speaker 2>like bitcoin, of course.

654
00:34:23.320 --> 00:34:24.719
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

655
00:34:24.800 --> 00:34:28.239
<v Speaker 2>I want to get your thoughts on the ETFs and

656
00:34:29.159 --> 00:34:30.679
<v Speaker 2>do you see that as a good thing or is

657
00:34:30.679 --> 00:34:33.159
<v Speaker 2>it a bit of a trojan horse tratify taking over

658
00:34:33.679 --> 00:34:37.480
<v Speaker 2>bitcoin right where the majority of the public or population

659
00:34:38.039 --> 00:34:41.159
<v Speaker 2>may go to black rock in fidelities and they don't

660
00:34:41.199 --> 00:34:44.719
<v Speaker 2>have the self custody aspect of bitcoin. Obviously, it doesn't

661
00:34:44.719 --> 00:34:48.559
<v Speaker 2>trade on the weekends and things like that. And I

662
00:34:48.599 --> 00:34:50.519
<v Speaker 2>don't want to. I don't think the United States would

663
00:34:50.559 --> 00:34:53.039
<v Speaker 2>try to do this like they did with gold, you know,

664
00:34:53.079 --> 00:34:55.840
<v Speaker 2>in the early days of confiscating it. But if they

665
00:34:55.960 --> 00:34:58.519
<v Speaker 2>wanted to, it's there in the ETF rapper. What do

666
00:34:58.559 --> 00:34:59.239
<v Speaker 2>you think about that?

667
00:35:00.239 --> 00:35:04.000
<v Speaker 1>So? I think an ETF is not bitcoin, it's a

668
00:35:04.079 --> 00:35:08.039
<v Speaker 1>it's a financial asset. It's a I want to trade

669
00:35:08.079 --> 00:35:10.599
<v Speaker 1>bitcoin to earn more FIAT. That's my goal, and which

670
00:35:10.639 --> 00:35:14.039
<v Speaker 1>is a perfectly fine goal. That's what people who own

671
00:35:14.159 --> 00:35:17.480
<v Speaker 1>the ETF are there to do. And Larry Fink and

672
00:35:17.599 --> 00:35:19.400
<v Speaker 1>his ILK are they are to provide a service which

673
00:35:19.440 --> 00:35:20.960
<v Speaker 1>is going to custody. Yet when to give you this

674
00:35:21.000 --> 00:35:24.280
<v Speaker 1>rapper that trades on these tradify markets you can put

675
00:35:24.320 --> 00:35:26.679
<v Speaker 1>into your retirement account and blah blah blah, we were

676
00:35:26.719 --> 00:35:31.679
<v Speaker 1>completely within the trad five fiat system, but giving you

677
00:35:31.880 --> 00:35:35.559
<v Speaker 1>a return that's coming from outside the system. And that's fine.

678
00:35:36.239 --> 00:35:38.000
<v Speaker 1>But at the end of the day, an asset manager

679
00:35:38.039 --> 00:35:40.719
<v Speaker 1>is a passive institution. They don't do anything with any

680
00:35:40.719 --> 00:35:44.320
<v Speaker 1>of the assets that they hold. So is Blackrock going

681
00:35:44.360 --> 00:35:49.519
<v Speaker 1>to sponsor core developers, you know, get involved in protocol upgrades,

682
00:35:49.599 --> 00:35:52.000
<v Speaker 1>have an opinion on these on these types of things.

683
00:35:52.320 --> 00:35:55.760
<v Speaker 1>Most likely No, it's going to be individual holders or

684
00:35:55.760 --> 00:35:59.079
<v Speaker 1>people who own businesses within the ecosystem. They're the ones

685
00:35:59.119 --> 00:36:00.960
<v Speaker 1>who are going to drive the chain change and make

686
00:36:01.000 --> 00:36:04.840
<v Speaker 1>sure that bigcoin stays relevant going into the future. So

687
00:36:05.639 --> 00:36:08.599
<v Speaker 1>it's great for the fiat price of bitcoin that you have,

688
00:36:08.800 --> 00:36:12.559
<v Speaker 1>you know, this massive horde of people wanting to get

689
00:36:12.559 --> 00:36:15.599
<v Speaker 1>that fiat return. Again, it's an open system, that's a

690
00:36:15.599 --> 00:36:18.400
<v Speaker 1>whole point. This is what the too she created. So

691
00:36:18.679 --> 00:36:20.079
<v Speaker 1>I don't think it's a good or bad thing. I

692
00:36:20.119 --> 00:36:23.440
<v Speaker 1>just think it's another facet of the market. And I

693
00:36:23.440 --> 00:36:24.960
<v Speaker 1>don't think people should say, oh, we need to ban

694
00:36:25.039 --> 00:36:26.920
<v Speaker 1>the ets or anything like that, but this is the

695
00:36:26.920 --> 00:36:27.320
<v Speaker 1>whole point.

696
00:36:27.400 --> 00:36:31.880
<v Speaker 2>Is an open system, yeah, for sure. And I think

697
00:36:31.880 --> 00:36:33.960
<v Speaker 2>I was talking to Mark Usco about this. He was

698
00:36:33.960 --> 00:36:38.880
<v Speaker 2>saying if anything like that happened anyway, because it's all

699
00:36:38.920 --> 00:36:41.960
<v Speaker 2>in an open system on the blockchain, we could blacklist

700
00:36:42.039 --> 00:36:46.000
<v Speaker 2>that bigcoin, so to speak. And I don't know only

701
00:36:46.320 --> 00:36:50.000
<v Speaker 2>the ones that under what circumstance if they try to

702
00:36:50.599 --> 00:36:52.559
<v Speaker 2>confiscate the bigcoin so to speak.

703
00:36:54.239 --> 00:36:56.239
<v Speaker 1>If that was it sounds a bit sounds a bit

704
00:36:56.480 --> 00:36:59.039
<v Speaker 1>suspect for sure.

705
00:37:00.000 --> 00:37:04.599
<v Speaker 2>Okay, US crypto regulations and this favorable environment we're in.

706
00:37:04.639 --> 00:37:06.480
<v Speaker 2>What are your thoughts on this one to eighty from

707
00:37:06.480 --> 00:37:10.039
<v Speaker 2>what happened under Biden with Genser and Elizabeth Warren, and

708
00:37:10.159 --> 00:37:12.719
<v Speaker 2>do you see a boom companies returning to United States,

709
00:37:12.719 --> 00:37:15.480
<v Speaker 2>maybe bitmax opening up more in the United States and

710
00:37:15.519 --> 00:37:16.079
<v Speaker 2>things like that.

711
00:37:16.960 --> 00:37:19.239
<v Speaker 1>I think ultimately, if you take a look at what

712
00:37:19.280 --> 00:37:24.199
<v Speaker 1>was happening with the FTX and Sam bankmin Freed fiasco,

713
00:37:25.159 --> 00:37:27.840
<v Speaker 1>if he hadn't if you know, this is always the

714
00:37:28.559 --> 00:37:30.760
<v Speaker 1>if you hadn't of when you have a massively over

715
00:37:30.840 --> 00:37:34.440
<v Speaker 1>leveraged trade, which he that's what he did. If he

716
00:37:34.800 --> 00:37:36.480
<v Speaker 1>if he hadn't stolen all the money and the market

717
00:37:36.559 --> 00:37:39.000
<v Speaker 1>went against him, you know, he would have gotten all

718
00:37:39.000 --> 00:37:41.400
<v Speaker 1>the licenses. He is poised to get a license to

719
00:37:41.400 --> 00:37:43.639
<v Speaker 1>issue a stable client. He was poised to get a

720
00:37:43.679 --> 00:37:46.559
<v Speaker 1>bunch of other licenses from the SEC. He was poised

721
00:37:46.559 --> 00:37:50.400
<v Speaker 1>to get some licenses to do derivatives with the CFTC

722
00:37:50.920 --> 00:37:53.519
<v Speaker 1>all predicate it on the massive amounts of campaign donations

723
00:37:53.880 --> 00:37:57.599
<v Speaker 1>and money he was spending politically in the United States. Now,

724
00:37:57.679 --> 00:37:59.519
<v Speaker 1>obviously he was a complete fraud and he was stealing

725
00:37:59.519 --> 00:38:03.199
<v Speaker 1>people's mind. And when that came out, everyone who he

726
00:38:03.239 --> 00:38:05.800
<v Speaker 1>was dealing with felt embarrassed and had to basically do

727
00:38:05.840 --> 00:38:07.719
<v Speaker 1>a one eighty and they said, oh no, we hate crypto.

728
00:38:08.320 --> 00:38:10.960
<v Speaker 1>We're not a bunch of like on the take politicians.

729
00:38:11.480 --> 00:38:14.239
<v Speaker 1>And I think that was sort of the main you know,

730
00:38:14.639 --> 00:38:17.800
<v Speaker 1>one ady thrust that either the Biden administration and all

731
00:38:17.840 --> 00:38:22.800
<v Speaker 1>the other you know, downstream Democrats took after f checks

732
00:38:22.840 --> 00:38:25.199
<v Speaker 1>because they were embarrassed. And there's pictures they've done with

733
00:38:25.239 --> 00:38:28.119
<v Speaker 1>Sam and shaking's hand and going on stage of them

734
00:38:28.119 --> 00:38:31.519
<v Speaker 1>that conferences and all this kind of stuff. Right, And

735
00:38:31.599 --> 00:38:34.440
<v Speaker 1>so the you know, Trump and his brand of Republicans

736
00:38:34.440 --> 00:38:38.519
<v Speaker 1>saw an opportunity. His an ecosystem. They've got material wealth,

737
00:38:38.840 --> 00:38:41.760
<v Speaker 1>they've been abused by the Peters administration. Let's use his

738
00:38:41.800 --> 00:38:46.880
<v Speaker 1>cohort as a great fundraising mechanism. And as you know, voters. Right.

739
00:38:46.920 --> 00:38:49.519
<v Speaker 1>Supposedly fifty million people in America whole crypto right. So

740
00:38:50.000 --> 00:38:52.800
<v Speaker 1>I'm sure some of those are marginals, swing voters, and

741
00:38:52.840 --> 00:38:55.960
<v Speaker 1>they helped bring Trump and a lot of Republicans into

742
00:38:56.000 --> 00:38:59.679
<v Speaker 1>office in twenty twenty four. And so now there's a

743
00:38:59.719 --> 00:39:03.039
<v Speaker 1>lot of talk about what sort of crypto regulation the

744
00:39:03.400 --> 00:39:06.440
<v Speaker 1>United States should have. I've been pretty vocal on record

745
00:39:06.480 --> 00:39:08.800
<v Speaker 1>that I think that the best you know, if I

746
00:39:08.840 --> 00:39:10.480
<v Speaker 1>was in the issues, I am not. I'm just a

747
00:39:10.519 --> 00:39:15.039
<v Speaker 1>private citizen out here, and you wanted to have the biggest,

748
00:39:15.079 --> 00:39:19.199
<v Speaker 1>most robust crypto ecosystem within your particular country, you should

749
00:39:19.280 --> 00:39:21.480
<v Speaker 1>do what the United States did in nineteen ninety six

750
00:39:22.159 --> 00:39:24.679
<v Speaker 1>with the Internet platforms, which they basically said you can

751
00:39:24.719 --> 00:39:27.440
<v Speaker 1>do whatever you want. The things that happen on your

752
00:39:27.440 --> 00:39:30.039
<v Speaker 1>platform is not your responsibility. If somebody commits a crime

753
00:39:30.800 --> 00:39:36.119
<v Speaker 1>using email or AOL or Google, that's their thing. They

754
00:39:36.159 --> 00:39:38.360
<v Speaker 1>committed the crime. It's not up to you Google or

755
00:39:38.360 --> 00:39:41.800
<v Speaker 1>platform operator to police that police set activity and prevent

756
00:39:41.840 --> 00:39:45.119
<v Speaker 1>it from happening. Right. And so if we adopt a

757
00:39:45.119 --> 00:39:48.840
<v Speaker 1>similar sort of situation to crypto, it's basically saying, you know,

758
00:39:48.920 --> 00:39:52.760
<v Speaker 1>bitcoin is free speech, it's private, We're not going to

759
00:39:52.840 --> 00:39:55.440
<v Speaker 1>touch it. You know, if you defraud somebody or steal

760
00:39:55.519 --> 00:39:57.400
<v Speaker 1>someone's money, we're going to come after you, and you

761
00:39:57.440 --> 00:39:59.880
<v Speaker 1>know all that, all that kind of stuff. But you

762
00:40:00.119 --> 00:40:03.840
<v Speaker 1>are free to do to centralize finance and build an exchange,

763
00:40:03.920 --> 00:40:06.079
<v Speaker 1>and we're not going to put any rules or regulations

764
00:40:06.199 --> 00:40:10.400
<v Speaker 1>or licenses around that. Watch how many people move to

765
00:40:10.719 --> 00:40:13.719
<v Speaker 1>the United States to open up a crypto business. It

766
00:40:13.760 --> 00:40:16.159
<v Speaker 1>would be you know, insane, the amount of activity that

767
00:40:16.159 --> 00:40:19.519
<v Speaker 1>would happen in America, similar to the way that all

768
00:40:19.559 --> 00:40:23.880
<v Speaker 1>this activity happened in Silicon Valley with the mega platforms

769
00:40:23.880 --> 00:40:28.400
<v Speaker 1>like the Googles, Amazons, Facebooks, Microsoft, all those all those

770
00:40:28.400 --> 00:40:31.400
<v Speaker 1>sorts of players who all benefited from the nineteen ninety

771
00:40:31.440 --> 00:40:33.920
<v Speaker 1>six Communications Act, Section two thirty for those of you

772
00:40:33.920 --> 00:40:37.400
<v Speaker 1>who are into that. Yeah, so I think something similar

773
00:40:37.679 --> 00:40:41.000
<v Speaker 1>should happen with crypto. What's going on right now is

774
00:40:41.039 --> 00:40:43.760
<v Speaker 1>more of more of the same, you know, traditional politics.

775
00:40:43.840 --> 00:40:45.920
<v Speaker 1>It says, Okay, there's a bunch of different people who

776
00:40:45.920 --> 00:40:49.239
<v Speaker 1>have invested interests are all speaking into Trump and his

777
00:40:49.320 --> 00:40:51.159
<v Speaker 1>advisor's ears, and then it's up to them to come

778
00:40:51.239 --> 00:40:53.719
<v Speaker 1>up with what is this bill or slated bills that

779
00:40:53.719 --> 00:40:56.119
<v Speaker 1>they're going to put forward and what do they get enacted.

780
00:40:56.480 --> 00:40:59.280
<v Speaker 1>Who knows what that'll be. I have no idea. I'm

781
00:40:59.280 --> 00:41:02.159
<v Speaker 1>not really on you know, the different stable coin acts

782
00:41:02.280 --> 00:41:04.639
<v Speaker 1>or licensing and all that kind of stuff. But that's

783
00:41:04.679 --> 00:41:07.400
<v Speaker 1>just more of the same politics. It could be good,

784
00:41:07.480 --> 00:41:10.320
<v Speaker 1>could be bad. I don't know. But if you know,

785
00:41:10.360 --> 00:41:13.039
<v Speaker 1>if they really wanted to do something, I wouldn't say radical.

786
00:41:13.000 --> 00:41:15.280
<v Speaker 1>Could they already did it with the big Internet platforms,

787
00:41:16.039 --> 00:41:18.199
<v Speaker 1>or another country wanted to do something similar. If they want,

788
00:41:18.280 --> 00:41:21.360
<v Speaker 1>if they really wanted crypto and these really smart people

789
00:41:21.400 --> 00:41:24.800
<v Speaker 1>to be within there made up jurisdiction called the nation state,

790
00:41:24.880 --> 00:41:27.199
<v Speaker 1>then they could do something like this as well.

791
00:41:28.519 --> 00:41:30.679
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I hope they do that sooner than later, and

792
00:41:30.719 --> 00:41:33.639
<v Speaker 2>they get these these bills through and we got to,

793
00:41:33.639 --> 00:41:36.199
<v Speaker 2>of course make sure they're good and balanced, because you

794
00:41:36.280 --> 00:41:39.840
<v Speaker 2>never know. The devil's in the details. Stable coin market,

795
00:41:39.920 --> 00:41:42.880
<v Speaker 2>we're seeing everybody in their grandma launching stable coins now.

796
00:41:43.320 --> 00:41:46.639
<v Speaker 2>I think Ripple, you got PayPal circles about to ipo.

797
00:41:47.079 --> 00:41:49.960
<v Speaker 2>We've seen their file to do that. Tether still king

798
00:41:50.000 --> 00:41:52.599
<v Speaker 2>of the hill though. How do you see the stable

799
00:41:52.599 --> 00:41:55.039
<v Speaker 2>coin market playing out? Are we like at a trillion

800
00:41:55.280 --> 00:41:58.920
<v Speaker 2>in market cap by next year? Banks getting involved? Now

801
00:41:58.960 --> 00:42:01.239
<v Speaker 2>that the restrictions are being loosened than things like that.

802
00:42:02.079 --> 00:42:04.960
<v Speaker 1>So I think this when you say stable core revolutions

803
00:42:05.000 --> 00:42:07.440
<v Speaker 1>is mostly just a bunch of American companies or people

804
00:42:07.480 --> 00:42:11.239
<v Speaker 1>in America who now want to issue stable coins for Americans,

805
00:42:11.360 --> 00:42:13.440
<v Speaker 1>and I think they're missing the point. The reason why

806
00:42:13.480 --> 00:42:17.480
<v Speaker 1>Tether is the most successful sale point and will continue

807
00:42:17.480 --> 00:42:20.159
<v Speaker 1>to be the most successful stalle coin is because it

808
00:42:20.239 --> 00:42:22.679
<v Speaker 1>offers US dollar banking to those who do not have

809
00:42:22.800 --> 00:42:25.599
<v Speaker 1>US dollar banking, which is everyone outside of America America

810
00:42:25.679 --> 00:42:30.679
<v Speaker 1>to have US dollar banking. They have instant settlement of dollars, Venmozelle,

811
00:42:30.719 --> 00:42:32.599
<v Speaker 1>cash app, PayPal, all these type of thing, right, they're

812
00:42:32.639 --> 00:42:37.039
<v Speaker 1>not perfect. I'll give you that they're centralized. Who cares,

813
00:42:37.400 --> 00:42:39.960
<v Speaker 1>But if you're a random American, I can send you

814
00:42:40.039 --> 00:42:44.239
<v Speaker 1>dollars and I even not using the banking system. So

815
00:42:44.800 --> 00:42:47.559
<v Speaker 1>I'm not exactly sure what a circle or Ripple or

816
00:42:47.599 --> 00:42:49.559
<v Speaker 1>all these or a GP Morgan or a Bank of

817
00:42:49.559 --> 00:42:52.480
<v Speaker 1>America they what's this product? They're gonna they just gonna

818
00:42:52.480 --> 00:42:54.679
<v Speaker 1>make a better version of Vemo. Okay, great, but all

819
00:42:54.719 --> 00:42:56.559
<v Speaker 1>you guys can go and raise one hundred million dollars

820
00:42:56.639 --> 00:42:59.119
<v Speaker 1>and then go compete on advertising dollars to convince this

821
00:42:59.159 --> 00:43:02.599
<v Speaker 1>person to save once sent on their transaction fees or

822
00:43:02.760 --> 00:43:06.400
<v Speaker 1>doll another app on their on their smartphone to send

823
00:43:06.400 --> 00:43:08.599
<v Speaker 1>money between each other. Great, go and do that. I

824
00:43:08.599 --> 00:43:10.599
<v Speaker 1>don't want to be anywhere near that business because that's

825
00:43:10.639 --> 00:43:14.400
<v Speaker 1>just a money losing exercise for most of these individuals.

826
00:43:14.960 --> 00:43:17.519
<v Speaker 1>And the under in the client already has access to

827
00:43:17.599 --> 00:43:20.639
<v Speaker 1>the product. They don't need another dollar banking solution. Can

828
00:43:20.679 --> 00:43:23.400
<v Speaker 1>I already have one? Now? Talk about the Chinese person

829
00:43:23.679 --> 00:43:27.119
<v Speaker 1>or the exporter in Africa or somebody in Argentina they

830
00:43:27.119 --> 00:43:30.760
<v Speaker 1>need dollar making? Is anyone trying to solve their problems? Well,

831
00:43:30.840 --> 00:43:33.760
<v Speaker 1>tell their solve their problems. USTT works great. When I

832
00:43:33.800 --> 00:43:37.239
<v Speaker 1>travel to Argentina into go skiing, I pay everybody in USDT.

833
00:43:37.559 --> 00:43:41.920
<v Speaker 1>It works right. There's a reason why Athena has such appeal.

834
00:43:42.000 --> 00:43:45.800
<v Speaker 1>I can earn an above average yield over treasuries getting

835
00:43:45.800 --> 00:43:48.559
<v Speaker 1>this basis yield, and I don't need to have access

836
00:43:48.599 --> 00:43:51.719
<v Speaker 1>to the US Treasury market or access to the centralized changes.

837
00:43:52.199 --> 00:43:55.679
<v Speaker 1>I can just buy this, you know, at stake USD

838
00:43:55.960 --> 00:43:59.440
<v Speaker 1>and earn this yield. This is who this is for.

839
00:43:59.800 --> 00:44:01.920
<v Speaker 1>That that is why these businesses have done so well.

840
00:44:02.199 --> 00:44:04.039
<v Speaker 1>Everyone also is saying, oh, this is there's this new

841
00:44:04.039 --> 00:44:06.239
<v Speaker 1>bill in the US that's sort of code of codifying

842
00:44:06.320 --> 00:44:09.440
<v Speaker 1>how stable coins are done. Therefore I can launch a business.

843
00:44:09.800 --> 00:44:11.639
<v Speaker 1>I'm looking at tether. Oh, Teather is like one hundred

844
00:44:11.679 --> 00:44:15.400
<v Speaker 1>and forty billion mark circular supply. Oh, of course, America

845
00:44:15.440 --> 00:44:16.599
<v Speaker 1>is the biggest place in the world. I should be

846
00:44:16.599 --> 00:44:19.000
<v Speaker 1>able to do that. So I'll can follow rules and

847
00:44:19.079 --> 00:44:21.159
<v Speaker 1>you know, raise much money and then boom, I'm gonna

848
00:44:21.280 --> 00:44:22.599
<v Speaker 1>I'm gonna go off to each other. But you're not

849
00:44:22.639 --> 00:44:24.719
<v Speaker 1>going up to the Tether is not in America. I meanah,

850
00:44:24.719 --> 00:44:26.320
<v Speaker 1>of course it is, but it's not. That's not their

851
00:44:26.480 --> 00:44:29.800
<v Speaker 1>core customer. The core customer is outset of America. So

852
00:44:29.840 --> 00:44:32.079
<v Speaker 1>I think everyone is fundamentally missing the point here of

853
00:44:32.679 --> 00:44:36.800
<v Speaker 1>why certain stable coins are successful and ultimately they're just

854
00:44:36.880 --> 00:44:38.320
<v Speaker 1>you know, lose all the investors' money.

855
00:44:39.519 --> 00:44:41.360
<v Speaker 2>All right, final question for we hit the wrap up

856
00:44:41.679 --> 00:44:45.960
<v Speaker 2>items are the best prediction by twenty thirty, how do

857
00:44:46.039 --> 00:44:49.679
<v Speaker 2>you see us interacting with Web three and crypto? Is

858
00:44:49.719 --> 00:44:51.800
<v Speaker 2>a lot more usage of stable coins? Do we have

859
00:44:51.840 --> 00:44:56.159
<v Speaker 2>digital identity on the blockchain? More people holding bitcoin? But

860
00:44:56.320 --> 00:44:59.800
<v Speaker 2>what do you seem I.

861
00:44:59.760 --> 00:45:02.360
<v Speaker 1>Mean, honestly, I don't know what the thing will be.

862
00:45:02.360 --> 00:45:04.639
<v Speaker 1>I think will be better at payments. I would imagine

863
00:45:05.239 --> 00:45:12.199
<v Speaker 1>possibly hopefully more integrated into consumer stuff. Now. Obviously I'm

864
00:45:12.280 --> 00:45:16.039
<v Speaker 1>an advisor of avaptos, and I think they're working very

865
00:45:16.079 --> 00:45:20.280
<v Speaker 1>diligently on bringing extremely low cost, fast payments, you know,

866
00:45:20.320 --> 00:45:23.280
<v Speaker 1>obviously outside of America for things that people actually want

867
00:45:23.280 --> 00:45:26.360
<v Speaker 1>to do. So they build the system for Facebook and

868
00:45:26.519 --> 00:45:28.400
<v Speaker 1>that is a sort of client base that they're going

869
00:45:28.440 --> 00:45:30.679
<v Speaker 1>after with these payment systems, and I would love to

870
00:45:30.719 --> 00:45:33.400
<v Speaker 1>see something like that more ubiquitous, so I can just

871
00:45:33.440 --> 00:45:36.880
<v Speaker 1>take my smartphone, n FT tap and boom, there is

872
00:45:37.119 --> 00:45:40.400
<v Speaker 1>you know, some stable coin transferred over the aptose network

873
00:45:40.440 --> 00:45:42.360
<v Speaker 1>to the merchant and I can go and spend my

874
00:45:42.360 --> 00:45:45.519
<v Speaker 1>crypto that way because it's fast and cheap enough for

875
00:45:45.840 --> 00:45:48.320
<v Speaker 1>that kind of use case. I think we're going to

876
00:45:48.360 --> 00:45:50.639
<v Speaker 1>see somebody do that quite well by the two thousand

877
00:45:50.679 --> 00:45:53.719
<v Speaker 1>and thirties, and that'll probably be a massive revolution in

878
00:45:53.880 --> 00:45:57.800
<v Speaker 1>sort of consumer payments, especially outside of you know, the US,

879
00:45:57.880 --> 00:45:58.679
<v Speaker 1>Western Europe.

880
00:46:00.000 --> 00:46:04.360
<v Speaker 2>Do you see like NFT technology powering contracts, deeds, vehicle

881
00:46:04.400 --> 00:46:07.880
<v Speaker 2>titles and things like that, concert tickets and stuff like that. Maybe,

882
00:46:07.960 --> 00:46:11.960
<v Speaker 2>I don't know, it could be all right, first wrap

883
00:46:12.000 --> 00:46:14.000
<v Speaker 2>up question. If you could great your own metaverse, what

884
00:46:14.000 --> 00:46:21.159
<v Speaker 2>would the theme be? Oh, House music, rapid Fire questions,

885
00:46:21.199 --> 00:46:22.039
<v Speaker 2>favorite food.

886
00:46:23.840 --> 00:46:25.800
<v Speaker 1>Uh, favorite food.

887
00:46:26.119 --> 00:46:33.639
<v Speaker 2>Chicken, favorite musician or band, daft Punk, favorite movie, Dune,

888
00:46:34.519 --> 00:46:40.639
<v Speaker 2>favorite book, three Body Problem series. When you're not doing

889
00:46:40.880 --> 00:46:42.400
<v Speaker 2>working in crypto, what are you doing for fun?

890
00:46:43.960 --> 00:46:45.079
<v Speaker 1>Playing tennis and skiing?

891
00:46:46.480 --> 00:46:50.079
<v Speaker 2>Arthur pleasure chatting with you. Appreciate your insights and we'd

892
00:46:50.159 --> 00:46:52.360
<v Speaker 2>love to have you back on. But thank you so much.

893
00:46:53.119 --> 00:47:07.559
<v Speaker 1>Absolutely post post to post, the two post post