Speaker 1: Hmm.
Speaker 2: The disclaimer to the fair season Karen's out there, Oh
dare you ill? Guests on the show do not reflect
the opinions of the host. The purpose of the show
is to have interesting conversations, stretch our minds and.
Speaker 1: Grow not what we want.
Speaker 2: If you are looking for an echo chamber viewer and
listener discretion, he's advised. Did you talk about extreme.
Speaker 3: Anoledge crime?
Speaker 4: We were guilty from the sun.
Speaker 3: They don't fear the questions, they fear the fuck.
Speaker 4: So we see.
Speaker 3: See they come.
Speaker 1: The dark.
Speaker 3: Shows what real?
Speaker 1: Nay, guys, what is happening? And what is up? Hold
out that class, baby? You know what time it is?
We about to feel it a Welcome to the Prometheous
Lens podcast, the place with the conversations are always in lightning.
I am your host, Doc Brown, and here we like
to use the allegory of the Prometheus Lens to take
a second look at everything. If you are new to
this channel, welcome to the Hero's Journey. Please be sure
to hit that light button and smash that subscribe button.
And while I got you attention, please check out this
banner down below. With all our social medias at their
various platforms, that would be much, much appreciated. Man, I'm
excited to get into this one. I'm always excited ninety
nine point nine percent of the time with these conversations.
But me and this guy we actually connected pretty good.
Speaker 3: Man.
Speaker 1: He's a brother from another mother. We had a really
good conversation actually from the time of this recording, not
that long ago, maybe a couple of weeks, we did
a live together talking about Appalachian cryptids. So I have
brought this man back. So this is a returning guest.
So I'd like to welcome back to the show, mister
David Hardy. How you doing, sir?
Speaker 3: What is up? Doc? It's great to talk with you again.
Speaker 1: That's right, man, I try to get the MM in there.
Speaker 4: Is that right?
Speaker 3: You did good? You did? You got them in there?
You did good?
Speaker 4: Nice? Drugs are bad? Okay?
Speaker 3: Okay?
Speaker 1: Well man, maybe just for those that maybe missed our
first conversation, just go ahead and introduce yourself.
Speaker 4: You know who you is, what you do, and why
are we here today?
Speaker 3: Awesome? Yeah. I am an author illustrator. I have written
two books. I have written two awesome books that are
flying off the shelves, Ayplatching Cryptis and creatures and the
brand new moth Man and illustrated history, and so I
got lots of research into these cryptids and all sorts
of things. But I've also drawn them multiple times, multiple iterations,
and then put them on T shirts and I travel
the country talking about cryptids selling T shirts. Got some
big cool stuff ahead. But that's what I do. I
love cryptids, love monsters and all of those things.
Speaker 1: Nice man, And you tell you passionate about it, man,
because it it shows do and your work. You can
tell when somebody's doing something that they love to do
because it just radiates from their work.
Speaker 3: Man.
Speaker 4: And you're just a real lively guy.
Speaker 1: Man, I really appreciate that about you.
Speaker 3: I appreciate that you're a lively guy too. We became
friends of that last that last podcast. That was great.
That was a fantastic time. We talked about everything. Well,
you told me it could be about anything and everything.
You were one hundred percent right.
Speaker 4: That's right, man.
Speaker 1: I just like having conversations and I just kind of
let the conversation flow and see where it takes us.
Speaker 3: Man.
Speaker 4: That's that's the best.
Speaker 1: There's nothing more upsetting to me to tune into a
podcast because it's a subject that I was interested in.
And the expert or the guest comes on to talk
and this interviewee just keeps interrupting over the top of them.
I'm like, dude, I didn't click to listen to.
Speaker 4: You, so I try to Yeah, mh.
Speaker 1: Well, man, that what are we getting into today?
Speaker 4: I know, uh, we kind of.
Speaker 1: Touched on some other stuff last go around, but we actually,
I know, we talked about mothmn and stuff a little bit.
Speaker 4: There. We're gonna go deep into.
Speaker 3: My fine man. I wanted to deep dive into month man.
I want to I want to educate you. You know
you we were talking last time. You said, Man, there's
a lot that I don't know. I want you to
be asked able to ask any question. I'm gonna get
into some of the unhinged theories because there's so many
theories on Mothman out there, and the origins and all
of the different stuff. I mean, Mothman is crazy popular,
like ridiculously, like you just see him everywhere. Mothman was
in Fortnite. They have a Fortnite skin for math Man.
I think that's a cultural litmus for like you are.
You have arrived, you mad well you've got Mothman, Darth
Vader Fanos, and you know, like you're up there, You're there,
you know. So I see Mothman shirts all the time,
many of them. I've designed some of them, I have thought,
you know, but I see him everywhere. So people are
super into him right now. So that's one of the
reasons why I wrote the book.
Speaker 4: Yeah, man, Yes, and I love his shirts.
Speaker 1: By the way, I'm definitely I've done set my eyes
on that that really bright blue and pink Mothman.
Speaker 3: You and everybody else I know, like, I mean thousands
and thousands. So I don't know if you've ever heard
of the moth Man Museum in Point Pleasant, West Virginia,
but that they are my number one patron right like
they It's amazing how they started. They bought like twenty
five shirts, then they bought two hundred and fifty, and
then it's just like a thousand shirts a month. It's
just NonStop. And I cannot believe between the Neon Mothman
shirt and the Mountain Dew moth Man shirt, how these
things just fly. Everybody in West Virginia has to have
a shirt, Like the entire is more than West Virginia
they say that people come from Japan, from Japan to
Point Pleasant, West Virginia to go to the museum and
check everything out like that. That's crazy to me. Yeah,
but I guess there's a lot of similarities between Mofman
and their yokai, so like there's a decent bit of
like bird entity similarities there. So there's they want to
check us out. I think after the World Cup there's
a lot of a lot of European and whatnot entities,
global entities that want to come in and see what
America has to offer in all of our fantastic culture.
So and part of our culture is our cryptids.
Speaker 4: Yep, that's right. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I've seen some of the videos of some of them people,
you know, because it was from people from all over
the world. But they were talking to like I can't remember,
like people from England or Europe and they're down there
in Florida that you know, god forsaken you know, heat
and humidity and they're like we're not used to.
Speaker 4: I'm like, hell yeah, boy, welcome, and.
Speaker 3: That they had the French eating a cheese steak, a
Philly cheese steak for the first time, like you know,
that is probably an assault to everything that they love
in their fit. But uh, America, baby Murca.
Speaker 4: That's right. Welcome to America. You have chosen wisely.
Speaker 3: I love it. That's great.
Speaker 1: Well, David Mann, the rains are yours, brother, take us
on this ride, Man, I got hold up. Yeah, all right,
I'm buckled in. Let's go buggled in.
Speaker 3: All right.
Speaker 1: Good.
Speaker 3: I don't want you falling out. I don't want to
want you falling out. So Mothman here. You know, I
heard one time somebody said, the only things you need
to know about Mothman is Mothman sixty six, the curse
of Cheap Cornstock, the Silverbridge collapse. That's all you need
to know about Mafman. That there's a whole lot more
to moth Man than just that. But I don't know
if your listeners know that many people blame the Mothman
in cur version of nineteen sixty six sixty seven on
an ancient Native American curse. So there's this story, and
I mean this is it's true. It happened. There was
a Native American Shawnee war chief. His name Chief Cornstock.
Now that's not a pejorative term, and it was whole
Aleusca was his name in the Native dialect, but it
translates to stock of corn or cornstock, so that's why
his name is corn chief Cornstock. And he was a
great war chief. He did a lot of I mean,
he was very formidable. He fought against the colonials and
eventually that he became friends with them, or at least
comrades or whatnot. In right around the Revolutionary War in
that space, and there's this there was a full for
Randall in what is now Point Pleasant, West Virginia, and
he went to warn the colonials that other tribes were
joining up with the Redcoats right the English, and he
was going to cause he was ultimately striving to stop
a war. Well, when he went to Fort Randall, and
again this guy's a really big deal because of Fort
Randall and a outside of the camp a man was killed,
a like he wouldn't have been American, been a colonial
at the time, but a colonial soldier. And that the
men got really, really, really really angry. And so they
when Chief Cornstock came in and this had nothing to
do with him whatsoever, they locked him and his son
up in a cell right so they they treated him
like common thief. There was nothing. He had done nothing wrong.
And then because this man died, they killed him. They
killed him in cold blood, So there's all sorts of
iterations to the story. But they shot him and his son,
and it is said that when he got shot prior
to you know, in while getting shot or as he's
bleeding out, he pronounces this curse against the white man,
against the entire region, and it's a multi century curse,
and quite a bit of people believe in this curse.
In fact, I was just doing a book signing with
a guy who was related to Chief Cornstock, so he
was his great great grandson, and he said absolutely, like
there's quite a bit of historical evidence that this occurred,
probably not the way that we tell the story and
you know, dramatize it, but it did happened. He was murdered,
and that something is amiss as a result of that,
that entire region for hundreds of years has just had calamity,
natural disaster and supernatural disasters. Prior to the Mothman, Like
I mean, it was like just bad thing after bad
thing after like flooding and terrible infrastructure stuff, and I mean,
you name it, it has happened in this area. Of
Point Paulus at West Virginia. In fact, I kind of
chuckle to myself. Now things are. You look at it
and you go, oh, how could it be getting any worse? Well,
guess what is getting worse? Because they're coming in and
there's a lot of government land and they're putting in
data centers. They're putting in all these data centers and
all this stuff around, and it's like, oh, how can
it get worse? Well, guess what? Here it comes. We
don't know what data centers do to you, but you're
gonna find out white bleas in West Virginia. So they're
trying to fight that right now. But there's after that
happened a lot of bad things, and there are people,
many people believe that an actual legitimate curse was put
upon the land and that the Mothman and all these
other phenomena flow from that curse. So, yeah, you looked
them up. There's Tea Cornstock right there. He was. He
was a very charismatic leader. He did quite a bit
of thing. He was very very instrumental during that time,
and it was like blatantly just cowardice to have killed him,
like there was no reason that it was completely. It
was just terrible, and there's quite a bit of guilt
there too. I think there's generational guilt with uh, this murder.
Absolutely what you if that was part of your culture?
Speaker 4: You know, I never knew that.
Speaker 3: There there's a sculpture of him in Point Pleasant and
he's got a nose ring, he's got a big spirit
there you go, He's got his tomahawk and all the stuff.
I've got pictures with that. I've been right by that sculpture. Yeah, yeah,
that's pretty cool.
Speaker 4: That's a pretty cool drawing right there.
Speaker 3: Uh, that's Jamie Snell. That drawing. I know that guy.
That's Jamie Snell, and I'm friends with him.
Speaker 4: Okay, Yeah, that's pretty cool.
Speaker 1: I know heating right here with that that Chief Cornstalk
is a is a shape shifter and it's actually him
the moth man. Is that what he's insinuating?
Speaker 3: I mean, it's not. I don't know that it's actually him.
I mean I don't he's probably Jamie's probably alluding to that,
but I don't think that they say that Chief Cornstalk
himself is the shape shifter. That uh, the the the
spirit though, that mischie mento, which is like the great spirit.
There's a lot of there's a lot of similarities. See
you have. They're saying Mothman is is not a moth Okay,
this is gonna blow your mind. And even I know, listen,
I got him represented as a insectoid moth on my
covered in bost most iterations. But that's just because that's
what society believes. Mothman is. All of the moth Man's settings,
he was a giant bird or a bird like creature
and avian apparition, if you will, So the moth Man
is probably closer to like the thunderbird. In fact, I
talked to a guy at a festival that swears he
saw Mothman and thunderbird like it was this creature that
was fit both descriptions. And he his argument was, people
have just been seeing what what we've called thunderbird. So
Mofman and thunder are almost interchangeable. And it's a giant,
massive bird and he said it's, yes, it has man
like features, but it's much more avia. It's it's almost
like the way he described it was like a giant vulture.
Speaker 4: But nobody canadactic.
Speaker 3: Something. Yeah, they don't have beaks. I will say that
in most iterations, they don't have beaks, which leads a
lot of people to say, well, it's a giant owl.
It's not okay, Like I'm like some of these things.
It's easier to just say like people were drunk on
moonshine and they had no idea what they were seeing.
Them trying to blame it on something naturalistic, like they
just saw owl. No, they knew what owls were. Okay, yeah,
that was not what they saw. And an owl is
not nearly I mean they're talking fifteen foot wingspans seven
feet tall. Owls don't get that big. Okay, that's not
even that close. And they yeah, there's of these things
that would would suffice either people saw it or they
did it, but it's not an owl. Right So yeah, there,
So in nineteen sixty six there when we talk about flaps, Okay,
so a flap is a bunch of sightings at one
time in a region. Right. So recently we had this
flap of bigfoot sightings in Ohio. There was like eight
or nine sightings all within a few days, and then
a meteor went over Cleveland, you know, which was this
really weird situation that everybody's like, well we see everybody's
seeing Bigfoot and then a meteor, right, what's what is
happening here? You know? And so that's a flap. Okay,
there were some flaps in Pennsylvania, the invasion of test
nut Ridge and different spaces where it's just like sighting
after sighting, because most of these Kryptons that we hear about,
we've seen, like their ice related sightings. It happens just
like once or twice in this done. But you've got
from nineteen sixty six, so like November of nineteen sixty
six all the way through to sixty seven. Is these
just crazy amount of Mothman setnings? Again, I have heard
that it is one hundred and sixty two different sightings
that were taken to the police and authorities. Okay, so
these are not just like your random neighbors like hey, oh,
yesterday I saw that mag turkey buzers thinking that was
the Mothman. No, like, these people are freaked out or
terrified and are going to the authorities like demanding that
at least some record is made. And you've got over
that period of time something like one hundred and sixty
two there were five hundred sightings of anomalies so like,
because Mothman wasn't the only thing. And that's what I
cover that in the Look, there's so much else going
on here. I mean UFO sightings, sasquatch like creature sightings.
Then you have the men in black. You even have
a pterodactyl that shows up. Okay, now again according to witnesses,
but UFOs all over the place.
Speaker 1: I want to hear the he'll be only pterodactyl siding
in Paris.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I will. I will tell you that. I
will tell you that. We gotta get a little.
Speaker 1: I'll tell you what always I was sitting on the
front march. Well, it wasn't.
Speaker 3: Now here's the thing, Hillbillies. It was actually airplane pilots.
You saw this terandactyl. Now this is later into the story,
but I mean I got it right here in my book.
Taridaconal right next to the UFO. But they were in
galap Police, Ohio, which is right across the river from
Point Pleasant. I mean they're neighboring towns, but I mean
you cross over that. People say, oh, they get some
of this story messed up because it's Ohio and West Virginia, Ohio.
They do not realize how close. I mean, like not
even five minutes away. These are two the region and
towns are bordering there. I mean it close to Peebles.
Speaker 1: I know people's Ohio's where that Serpent Mound is. And
I know it's southern Ohio.
Speaker 3: Uh yeah, well it would be southern Ohio. I mean
this is as southern Ohio as you can get because it's,
you know, borders West Virginia, relatively close to Columbus, not
in like Columbus and Cincinnati kinda gala. Police is somewhat
near there. If there's not a whole lot around, it's
not a thriving metropolis.
Speaker 4: But people's not cornfields.
Speaker 1: I was actually surprised when I went up there to
Ohio my first time to see Serpent Mound and stuff.
It was just nothing but farms and cornfields. I was like, man,
it's just I told.
Speaker 3: My Serpent Mountain story. No you I Oh fuck, this
this happened now. I was so upset. So this is
I've been getting into this stuff for quite some time.
Let's say I started about ten years ago, right, and
we were on the highway. This is about five years ago. Oh,
this was during COVID. This was around that time. And
I get on the highway and we're on the turnpike
and you know, everybody's social distancinging different stuff. I take
the kids in and go to the bathroom and I'm
coming out because you know, we have to kind of
do it in shifts. I got three kids and a
wife and a dog, so everybody's got a pee and
like shifts and all these things said, and you gotta
make sure nobody gets taken or anything like that. So
I take the kids in and my wife is talking
to this guy and it's we were I think we
were in Ohio. We're headed into Ohio and she's talking
to this guy and he's super animated, being really really cool,
and it was just like a nice conversation. But I
had no idea what they were talking about. So I
come back, I bring the kids back, and she goes, oh,
that was such a nice man. You won't believe what
He's gonna go check out. And I said, what's it
going to go check out? She says, well, he's he's
a researcher and he's gonna go check out one of
the serpent mounds in Ohio. And I was like record scratch, like, honey,
where is he which way did he go because he
had left, and I'm like, I want to go talk
to him. I need to talk to him. Oh my goodness,
you know, is it like I was so excited, you know,
I never found him, you know, but like, and he
was telling her, now again I get this, you know. Uh,
it's funny when you know these things because you've done
the research and you've you've been in the spaces. But
this guy conveying it to my wife was just saying,
there's more serpent mountains in Ohio than probably almost anywhere
else in the world. I mean other than the Middle East,
but mate, I mean there's a ton of serpentmountain They're
all over the place in Ohio. And in researching, he
was explaining to her, you know how you can only
see the Serpent Mound from an aerial view and it's
like nigh in to perfect and it's the spiral mound,
and then you've got all the things you know buried within,
but then potentially like all the supernatural elements and things,
and we don't know where they come from. And the
Native Americans are not taking credit for it, and they
want to stay very far away from it, and that
there's all these weird sightings of creatures around those serpent mounds,
which is somewhat disconcerting, you know, and so like what
are these? And there's ones that you can just go
up to, and then there's some that you cannot get
to at all. But I was so upset. I'm like,
this guy is probably, you know, a leading serpent mound researcher.
I'll never know. It might have been you.
Speaker 4: It was you, Graham Hancock.
Speaker 3: If it was, it was granted they wasn't grand Hancock.
Oh what do you think serpent mountains are? I need?
I need. I'm gonna pick your brain for a second.
What is your theory on serpent mountains? Give me the
you know, the layman's I mean, I know a little bit,
but like give me, like your what what do you
truly believe that they were?
Speaker 1: I think like the Serpent Mountain at Ohio it was
kind of like a you know, a spiritual like complex
because a lot of people don't realize is that that
area there sits in a huge impact crater. So a
meteor hit there and it made these you know, ridges
and all this other kind of stuff, and then you know,
you get into stones and they put off certain frequencies
and energies and that kind of stuff too. I met
a guy because I had a similar story. I went
to Serpent Mount and someone was like, oh, have you
been to the rock shop? And I was like no,
because I mentioned giants And they were like, Oh, if
you're into giants and all this other kind of stuff,
you need to go to this rock shop. There's a
guy there that's the researcher and he actually finds fossils
like marine life from the flood and you know, Willie hollows,
but troller bites or whatever. He said that he actually
sent a bunch of them to the Smithsonian. He actually
had an exhibit inside the Smithsonian for trolla bites and
some of the biggest ones and stuff in our area.
You need to go talk to him. And so when
I went to talk to him, I got to interview him.
He was really cool, but he was like yeah. He said,
there's there's an energy about this place. He said, it
might be from the meteorite or whatever.
Speaker 4: He says.
Speaker 1: There might be you know, delay lines too, he says.
But he said, I think that the ancients whoever built this,
he said, new they felt something special.
Speaker 4: About this place, he said.
Speaker 1: And then you know a lot of the local tribes
say that they found it, you know, he said, But
they just knew it was a special place, he said,
in all the lunar alignments with the curves of the
serpent and the mouth open towards the summer solstice, you know.
And uh, they even had a huge standing stone monolith
at the front end of the snake. I guess where
that egg was. And they got tired of weed eating
around it, so they threw it off that big bluff.
But so I think that it was like a ritual
ceremony place maybe of like renewal or something like that,
or death.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 1: I think it's some kind of ritualistic type site. But
there's mounds there too. A lot of people don't realize that.
Speaker 3: Do you tie the Serpent Mountains into the seed war
like the Genesis three and six Seed.
Speaker 4: War or yeah? I think I think L. A.
Speaker 1: Marzouli and Friz Zimmerman got a pretty good hypothesis, man,
And they think that during the Great Diaspora, when Caleb
and the boys were coming up cleansing the Holy Land,
the smart ones, especially like the Phoenicians, they were a
faring people. They packed their stuff up in ships and
took off and fled, and they found their way into
the New World. And he was saying that I can't
remember how many, you know, hundreds of feet that the
water levels have came down over the years, he said,
he used to. He said, you could go into like
the Massachusetts area and go straight into the Great Lakes.
He said that from now you got the Ohio River
Valley down, he said, and you have all the copper mines,
all the Phoenician stone ridings and carvings that they found,
and that what was it That royal at Lake Royale
or Royale Island that borders the United States and Canada
is like the world's largest copper mine. They found a
huge Venician ship carved into a big stone out there,
and then all the mounds. So he was like, I
think this shows this is where they were. They were
mining this copper, fueling the Bronze Age, going back and forth,
and they started going down that Ohio River valley, and
that's why you have all those mounds concentrated through that area.
That's that's theirs.
Speaker 3: M h m hmmm. Wow. Crazy stuff, crazy stuff, alternate history, right, like, yeah,
no matter what we know. We know that the history books,
they're not telling the truth. They are giving their narrative,
and their narrative is about as vanilla, and uh, how
do we put it? I mean, are they trying to
lead you? I don't know. I mean, but is it
an intentional cover up or is it just we don't
want to make connections that maybe aren't there. But regardless,
it's not a full picture of what occurred, right, I mean,
these serpent mountains all over Ohio point to something, point
to something.
Speaker 4: M yep, I agree.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think our history is a lot stranger than
what we think.
Speaker 4: And I don't know.
Speaker 1: I think it's maybe they they're afraid if they talk crazy,
they'll be considered crazy and nobody will honor their work.
And then you got egos into it too. See, people
spend their whole life developing a historical narrative, and then
when a giant bone is found or something that throws
a kink in their theory or their life's work, instead
of admitting the mistake and retracting and investigating, they're like, no,
this will kick me off my throne.
Speaker 4: I'm the we YEA.
Speaker 3: Thousands of newspaper articles about giant bones being found.
Speaker 1: Yeah, those are dummies. They didn't know how to read
tape measures and.
Speaker 3: You know, and then Abraham Lincoln makes the statement at
Niagara Falls definitively about those ancient giants whose bones we
have today, Like you know, he states this as just
an understood fact of the time, right, like as if
every if it was an inside joker or reference, everybody
would have gotten it, like yep, yep, I know, I
dug up from bones of my property too, you know.
And then all of a sudden there are people, there
are museums ways that hide giant bones, like giant human bones,
and all of a sudden, you know, at a certain year,
what was it, like nineteen thirty, nineteen forty, all gone,
all gone, everything's taken, get rid of all the evidence,
and you're like, well, why, what's you know, what's going
on with that?
Speaker 1: Like then they pass all those Native American laws you know,
to protect you know, their heritage and their bones and stuff.
It's like, but they say they didn't make them, you know,
so but then they had summer track and say, oh, yeah,
yeah we made it, we made it, because you know,
they probably got their arm twisted to say that, or
got paid some money to say that. And then now
you can't dig into them anymore because it's you know,
I mean, it's you know, Native American heritage. So you
can't dig in it no more. But it's because they
don't want, you know, repeats of those eighteen hundred newspapers.
Now we got good cameras, Now we know how to
read a tape measure, you know what I'm saying, So
they can't hide.
Speaker 4: It like they did.
Speaker 1: So it's like, now we'll put it under this. Oh,
it's protective Native American heritage. So you know, the truth
will stay buried or will the home in prison?
Speaker 3: Right right exactly? Yeah, well them in prison? Yeah. So
so I mean, and you know, going back to the
crazy stuff is happening with moth Man. You had like
in nineteen sixty six, you just have these sightings that
just start popping up. There were I mean, there there
were so many with you had like the US Guardsman.
You had different ones, just different ones popping up with
the big one that we talked about last time was
the four kids in the car and they get chased
and then this thing goes it blows up because they
did a They did a press conference right after this.
So they bring these poor kids in. They're terrified. They
haven't slept there. They're just, you know, trying to answer
these questions about this big giant bird. They kept calling
it the bird that sleop down and attack the car whatever.
You know. Together there's all the theories and whatnot, and
this thing goes viral. Okay, So for nineteen sixty six,
as the viral as you could possibly go, they were
running newspaper in the so with the ap right, it
went all the way to Tokyo. It goes I mean
they have newspaper clippings from Tokyo, Japan about this giant
bird from West Virginia. So like, I mean, that's how
far it goes. And everything gets blown up and then
everybody's looking for it, and you have sightings, you have things,
you have stuff, and it's just it's it's crazy. Over
this period of time. Then the men in Black show
up and like, so you've had these you have the
UFO things and you have the different stuff. But it
gets really really creepy and weird. I would say in
this story, I'm not even sure the moth Man's the villain.
I have my theories on what Mofman is, but the
Men in Black are freaking nefarious, like and there's and
they could be so many different things. I remember growing
up in nineteen ninety seven eight whenever the movie came
out with Will Smith and Tommy Lee Jones, and I
love the concept that I'm like disclosure, Yeah, right, seriously,
it really was. Oh, they've been getting us ready for
this for years, for decades or more a century probably,
But those Men in Black are not even remotely close
to the Men in Black, the original Men in Black
that all of this is based on from the fifties
and then the sixties, something would happen, there'd be a
paranormal event, and these crazy like I don't even want
to call them human beings because they're more creatures. They're
they have ill fitting skin that is like white and
clammy and it doesn't make say look it's like it's
hanging on something. They are misshapen. They speak very oddly.
Some of them drink bleach like. They do the weirdest,
craziest things. They're always like taking stuff. It's it's all.
It's very very strange. Some people said that they are
lizard people, that they think that the men in black
are lizard people wearing the skin of something else. Others
have said they're sydeboards. Others have said they're you know,
aliens and all the different stuff. Regardless, they are other,
they are something other.
Speaker 1: Yeah, why why.
Speaker 4: Such as.
Speaker 3: Chris Farley R I P. Chris Farley, We didn't know what?
Speaker 4: Yeah, the good ones always go quick, man.
Speaker 3: I know, I know, so yeah, the I mean, the
men in Black come down and they're scaring everybody, and
it's like real nefarious, like they're like potentially kidnapping people.
Like one of the witnesses was what a girl who
had seen moth Man. They came after her and they
were gonna they were gonna take her. She was a
seventeen year old girl and they tried to pull her
in the car and different things like that, and you're like,
this is this is crazy. In fact, there are beliefs
that there's a there was a woman who was a
journalist or at the time, Mary Higher, and she's incredibly
important in the story, like it goes John Keel, he's
the number one investigator through all of this. He wrote
the book The Mothmn Prophecies. But you have Mary Hier
who puts everything together and you know, collects all this stuff,
and she's local and they believe she died relatively right
after the Silver Bridge collapse in sixty seven, and they
there are many of the witnesses that believe that the
men in Black Kilner, like, I mean, that's what they say,
you know, they attribute it to that, and you're like,
oh my goodness, like what is going on here? This
is this is just absolutely bonkers. So yeah, strange, strange stuff.
And then so we have this bridge collapse then, so
that's the that's like the final piece, right, So we
talk about Mothman, just have all the sightings, all the
weird things. People when they see them, they get eyeburned
these so they clean conjunctivitis and it's like pink eye
but really really bad and burns everything. So all this
different stuff and people are seeing him and now Mathman
never heard anybody other than dogs. Okay, lots of dogs
got taken out by moth Man, but beyond that, we
have no record, no records of Mothman hurting anybody. When
we get to this, we get to finally this bridge collapse.
It was December fifteenth, I think, nineteen sixty seven, fifteenth or sixteen,
and it's the worst bridge collapse in US history. It's
the Silver Bridge that connects gal Police, Ohio and Point Pleasant,
West Virginia. It was just now. The bridge was old,
maintenance had not been done on it. They did not
anticipate big trucks being able to be driving on it
all day long, and you know, all different things. But
it's like right before Christmas and it's getting dark and
like an eyebolt breaks and this thing, just this massive
structure breaks and smash. As they said, it was like
this horrible screeching noise, like the sound and they said
it made like a sound like a dragon or a dinosaur.
Speaker 1: Because you know, anytime I go across the long Bridge,
I'm like, oh my god, what this thing?
Speaker 3: The same here? Same here? And also see what I mean.
I'm not trying to paint a very vivid picture, but
let's go ahead and paint that picture. It was a
pretty bad death, like for a lot of people, like
you are taking in your car dumped now into a
freezing river where you are sinking or if your windows
open you can get oh, like who knows, but drowning
is bad. Drowning in icy cold water is bad and
then you have debris falling on you and the rebar
and everything like that not good. So, like forty six
people died, which is a lot of people when you
think about it, especially for a small town. Everybody would
have been impagged by that. Everybody would have had some
type of connection. And then right after that, like it's
not that the sighting stopped, but I don't think people cared.
Like people were like, yeah, there's a big bird. I
just lost my wife. Yeah, yeah, there's a big bird.
Or there's UFOs. I just lost my you know, three
kids and my husband, you know, or whatever whoever was
on that bridge. So it was really really traumatizing. It
was traumatizing for the area. You know. I think with
the story of math Man, there's quite a bit of
remembrance of the trauma, and then they blame the trauma
on all sorts of different things, and it might be everything.
That's That's kind of what I say in my book.
I think that that there's a legitimate curse. I think
that there's something going on there. Maybe wasn't connected to
the to you know, Chief Cornstos death possibly wasn't connected
to other things. Maybe, but there's something supernatural afflicting that land,
like that area. It is like, you have got to
be kidding me. Could things get any worse? And they did.
Things are not worse, you know. So it's just it's
really really rough. But people keep plugging. There's some of
the nicest people I've ever met in my life, you know.
I was recently, I was doing a a meeting locally
in the town that I'm in h with the library,
the woman who runs the library system, and I'm doing
a bunch of I was like speaking and events and things,
and this kid comes up to me in the middle
of the meeting and he's like, Hey, can I get
a selfie with you? Like I've read your books, I
love your stuff. And this doesn't happen all the time,
but it's like a little local thing. And I said, absolutely,
like take the picture with him. So then the lady goes,
she goes, oh, that was so cool. She's like, does
that happen a lot around here? I said, not as
much around here, but in Point Pleasant, West Virginia, they
know my name. Like I walked into the for the
first time. I walked into the Mothbay Museum because I'd
been shipping this stuff down. I walked in. I was like, hey,
I'm David Hardy. He's like, oh, David Hardy, David Hardy's here.
They're like calling on the on the like like, hey,
David Hardy's here, David Hardy's here. Oh my goodness. Because
and you go in. It's just worthy. Oh that's funny.
It was like it was just everywhere. So it was funny.
So I always, I always joke. I said, I'm a
real big deal in Point Pleasant, West Virginia. Not so
much anywhere else but Point Pleasant, West Virginia. They know
my name at least my blocks.
Speaker 1: So I pulled that anchor Man quote on my girlfriend Amy,
which she was asking me, you know what I do
and stuff.
Speaker 4: I was like, I don't know how to break this
to you, but pretty big deal.
Speaker 3: In the paranormal space.
Speaker 1: I'm a pretty big deal legendary in my own mind.
Speaker 4: That was funny.
Speaker 3: She got me.
Speaker 1: I don't know where she found it at, but she
had found a sticker. And I have one of those
really big toolboxes on the wheels, you know, and I
always sticker it up. And she found a sticker, this
big deal pickle, and it said I'm a big.
Speaker 3: That's great. I love it. That's awesome, so cool. So
you have it. So do you ask me the questions
asked me? Any deep does stuff? I'll and I'll make
you know ridiculous claims and statements. Anything you need me
to do.
Speaker 4: So okay.
Speaker 1: Chronology of it. The first one was the kids running
in the car.
Speaker 4: Was that the first?
Speaker 3: No, there was one. It's it's even earlier. It's the
grave digger one. That's the one that everybody says is
either first or second. It's real, it's real, kind of weird.
It was, uh, well, there was a National guardsman is
the first accounted one, and it was a It was
a West Virginia National Guardsman who saw the moth man
in the t and tiars. This is the area where
they had the munitions that being a power play. He
saw it in a tree. And so that happened November one,
nineteen sixty six. And then they just start seeing it.
So then there are these guys heard digging a grave
late at night on November twelfth, nineteen sixty six, and
they saw it and it was in Kenneth. Yeah, I'm sorry,
his name, Kenneth was the guy. Kenneth Duncan was a
guy who was digging the grave with his friends. These
were just things that you did back in nineteen sixty six.
You're like, I'm not hiring you know, no undertaker to
dig to dig a ditch for my It was like
his father in law. He just got four of his
friends and they went and dug his grave and threw
the body in.
Speaker 1: But during that I can hear myself in that situation
and be like, you know, I ain't paying.
Speaker 3: You know five, I'll tell you what I've had the
Bury family And when you find out how much it cost,
uh yeah, I mean I'll tell you. I don't know
if I'm allowed to say this on the internet, but
I my dog died years ago and I'm like, oh
my goodness, this is and we were all, you know, sad,
the whole family said. Then you get kicked in the
face when you go to you know, you're like, well
what do I do with the remains? And like, oh,
that'll be four hundred dollars to cremate them. You're like, no, no, no,
there there's better ways to deal with this. You know,
I grew up illegal.
Speaker 4: That's what we always did.
Speaker 1: We always buried them on the property and put like
a stone marker or something like that.
Speaker 3: You know, like listen, nobody wants pet cemetery happening. But
I Am not paying four hundred dollars or whatever it is.
You know, like we're gonna take care of this ourselves.
So yeah, I probably wouldn't have announced that.
Speaker 1: But no, which I don't think it's I mean, I
don't think it's illegal.
Speaker 4: Hell, I wouldn't think, but I mean.
Speaker 1: Nonsensical things that are illegal. But I'm even that way
with with me. I've told all my family. I'm like,
you know, if you're still around and I and I'm gone, Uh,
save you money, just cremate me.
Speaker 4: You know, my God created me.
Speaker 1: You know, He created ad him from the dust of
the ground. So you know, I've heard some people ask me,
you know, how do you think you know, if you're cremated,
you can't go to heaven. I'm like, well, I'll tell
you what. If you're a worshiping you know God, but
God is not capable of, you know, reconstituting your ashes.
He's not a god worthy of worship in my opinion.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that and think about it, like how many people
have died for how many thousands, if not much much longer.
Who would be resurrected? Right? Like those remains are dust
of many of them, you know what I mean. So
if God, you know, if God can't can't re establish
your body, and you're gonna have a new body. It's
not gonna be the old body, right, So you're gonna
have a new body in this in the new heavens
and new Earth. It's a glorified body, and it's not
gonna look to say. I mean, I think people are
gonna know who you are, but it's not the same
is what you look like. I don't even know that
it's the body that you had exactly, you know what
I mean. It's it's very changed, but it could be
on a sub atomic level. I know we're getting into
the weeds here. Well yeah, God is not limited. God
is not limited by that at all. So I mean, yeah,
i'd say pay as little as you can for now.
I do think monuments are important to you somewhere that
you could take the grandkids be like, hey, this is
where great great great the gay daddy. You know. I
do think there's something to the grave marker. I think
that has some value, you know, but but probably not
in this next this future generation. I mean there's a lot.
I mean they're losing all family ties, like it's crazy,
like they're pretty much family reunions are pretty much gonna
go away, like, let's be honest, and it's it's gonna
be really intriguing, you know, and most people don't even
know their cousins anymore. You know. It's very everything's very
very different now.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's something that's sad. I really enjoyed those,
especially the kid, you know, the family get togethers and
the reunions. Everybody get together cousins. Yeah, it's always a
good time.
Speaker 3: And I cleaned, I cleared my schedule for it and
did not. I mean I had events and speaking engagements
I could have booked, and I said, no, I've got
my family reunion. And I don't know how many more
we're going to have of these. We're going I'm doing it,
you know. So yeah, man, I think they're important. But
I was a hard time.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, and you never know, you know, we're from
the South. You might meet your your future ex wife there.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I hopefull he's not your cousin or whatever. Well,
this is a real quick funny story funny story. We
moved away from this area and we came back and
my son starts going back to the school that he
once attended like four years ago. See starts dating this girl.
One night, he's on his oh no, oh yeah, and
he looks at my wife and he goes, wait a second,
who's aunt so and so? And who are her kids?
And he's on his phone and there was this very
terse moment where he believed that his girlfriend was his cousin.
And I just started laughing and my biddles goes, but
about by old, but about and it just starts, you know,
ragging them. Now it was not his cousin and what
you know, But like it was so funny for that
hot second he's like, wait, who's Aunt so and so?
It was on my wife's side.
Speaker 4: It was great, crazy, Yeah.
Speaker 1: I could just imagine the thoughts going through that little
dude's head there. Well, I know they got that huge
statue and they got uh that big festival and stuff
that they do. Now, how long has that been going
on or is that?
Speaker 3: Let me tell you this, I got the story, Like
I love telling the story. So one, the statue is
not that huge. I'll tell you about the festival. Now,
I'll tell you about the statue, but the stat is
not a huge Okay. So the festival the Fessel started
in two thousand and two. And do you know why.
Here's why. Because they filmed the movie The Mothman Prophecies
not in West Virginia. They filmed it in Catanning, Pennsylvania. Okay,
so like five hour four three or four hours away
and probably for tax purposes or whatever. But that movie
that Richard Gere was in, right, none of that was
filmed in West Virginia. And you had people in West
Virginia were like, wait a second, this is our story,
this is our legend, Like you can't do this, you
can't take this away from us. So they started. It's
relatively small, I mean not even relatively, like only about
one hundred people came to the first one in two
thousand and two, but it's started. This festival was like
one of the first cryptid festivals in the country. It
predates many of the bigfoot festivals because like you have
some big ones now, but most of those are relatively recent,
uh you know constructs, and so people started coming down.
Now it was a festival for various things like I understand,
So I go to it. I'm speaking at it this year.
Smoke last year. I'm speaking this year. Thirty two thousand
people at this thing. It is a sight to behold,
Like it is just amazing. But it's not just mothman
like it is. It's like a music festival. It's like
got like a fair flavor small town, like people are.
Speaker 1: Buying all county Country County.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, but like in a small town, like it's
really it's actually really cool, like whatever you like. I'm
right out. My booths are right outside of a comic
book store. That comic book store does incredibly well. But
they sell comics, they sell Pokemon cards, they sell whatever.
It's it's just like everybody gets out and has a
blast at one time. But the whole thing started because
they were mad that Pennsylvania stole their story. And here's
the statue. Okay. Now, the statue is relatively big, like
it's not that makes it look bigger than his. The
statues about as tall as I am. Like if I
stood next to the statue, it'd be you know, it's
like five ten six feet something like that. But the
statue was created by a man named Bob Roach and
he was a sculptor and he engineered in the sculptor
of Chief Cornstock that you pulled up before he did up.
He was commissioned by the city. By the city and
I think the state ultimately to do all these different
to do these sculptures in Point Pleasant, and I think
I'm not positive. I think that was his final one.
So he did a bunch of research, talked to a
bunch of people, and then he does the sculpture. Now,
the funny part is is that the sculpture when you
get up close, it looks like a power Ranger villain. Okay,
like he did the best that he could, but it's
like it it definitely that's what it looks like. Looks
like a power in your villain. The thing about it,
uh so they he did this sculpture based off of
like a bodybuilder. Okay, so the legs are these big usings.
One they have to hold the weight of that much
metal up like when you do sculptures.
Speaker 1: They're so close to ohio is that is that?
Speaker 2: So?
Speaker 3: There was great. There was a lot of thought put
into it because okay, the butt right, like is Mothman
wearing pants? You know, Mothman is not wearing pants, So
do you do a butt? Do you not do it?
But like you know, probably went back and forth what
so like now he definitely I'm not gonna lie. He
overdid the butt like there's as an artist, like there's ways,
Oh my gosh, what did I just see that picture?
I think anyhow, there's ways, yeah, that way that that's
a little uh.
Speaker 4: I've taken of the cake.
Speaker 3: I hear you. I think something else might be happening.
It's just checking his prostate. That's for Jack. But it's
been this. The funny part is is this juvenile like
I've heard people say that it's like an ancient like worship.
It's like, oh, trust me. They get into all this stuff.
Speaker 4: And they're like, I've say to it, you know, yeah.
Speaker 3: I mean, and it's and I think it's a joke.
It's a I'm not saying it's a harmless joke. Maybe
it's the most terrible thing and blah blah blah. I
don't think so it's a joke. I'll tell you this.
I know the people the Mothman Museum hate hate it,
like I mean, they love the sculpture, but sticking the
bunny in there is like I mean, could they do
they stick a buck in there. There's a guy who
just goes over and takes it every like every night
he's like, all right, gonna go over to both Man statue,
you know what I mean. People will throw twenties in there.
It's insane, it's so stupid, but they and then they're
gonna The other thing is they're gonna break it. Like
you cannot keep shoving things in that crevass. Eventually it's
gonna break. It's gonna you know, and there's no upkeep
on the sculpture. Like what and I've said this numerous times.
Once it's broken is broken. I'm sure there's no budget
to fix Mofman's butt, you know what i mean. So
they keep doing this, but like it's it's such a
big thing, and they have they call it the Shiny Heineye,
and they have t shirts and they have stickers and
they have like it's like this crazy big thing. It's juvenile,
that's what it is. It's it's it's incredibly juvenile because
there's a sculpture of a thing with a giant butt,
So clearly a bunch of kids gotta go make a
big deal about it, you know, what I mean. So
that's that's pretty much the story. It's fun to see.
It's ridiculous, but oh yeah, I listened. I touched the
shiny hoey. I did it. I have a picture of it.
In fact, for a while there on my Instagram it
was my highest viewed video. I got of like multiple
thousands of views.
Speaker 4: I hear you, like, you know that's that works. Man.
Speaker 1: It's like a good uh, a good picker, fart picker,
fart joke or butt joke. Well, we'll get everybody because
it's like one of my my only I mean, I've
had some successful videos, but I've not had anything that
I would consider viral.
Speaker 3: Uh.
Speaker 1: But I had one viral video and I haven't looked
at it in months because it was on TikTok and
I kept getting community guidelines because I mean, they hate
Christians if you post Christian content, Oh my god, they
come after you. But I you know, put all this
you know, deep meaning, philosophical, biblical, you know, mysteries and
knowledge nuggies, you know, and they'll get you know, anywhere
from five hundred to fifteen hundred views something like that.
But man, I made a reaction video to a fart Basically,
it was this guy. He showed these different people and
it showed a transgender woman and it's like, oh, I'm transgender,
and then it showed this other person said, oh, I'm gay,
and this other person, oh, I'm this, you know, all
this LGBTQ stuff, and that switched to this other guy.
He's not meant handicapped, but he's got some disabilities and
he can still talk, but he looks, you know, strange,
but he embraces it.
Speaker 4: Man.
Speaker 1: He actually does really good. He makes funny videos and stuff.
But it cut to him and he's sitting there in
his arms kind of bent down, and he's like he
farts this mean, epically long wet fart, you know, and
he's like, I'm a race car. And I filmed that
and just did a reaction video off of it when
I've seen it, and that thing had like three and
a half million views on it, like last time I looked,
like six months ago, and I'm like, there you go. Man,
A good you know, juvenile joke gets everybody.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, that's hilarious. Hey, I have to tell you
this is not I just have to tell you this
because you are a man of faith and you get
into very very deep biblical you know, truths, and sometimes
some some stuff is pretty gory, right, I so listen,
I do. I do all of this stuff, and I
write books on cryptis And then I also, I'm an
ordained pastor and have taught all of the stuff, and
I get in depth. And I'm not trying to be sillatious,
but like the text, Like my wife was complaining on
Sunday because she had to teach Sunday school and it
was about Nabukezzar gouging out the eyes of you know,
Hebrews and whatnot. She's like, how do I cover this?
And I said, I don't know. I honestly, I don't
have a good answer for what we teach seven year olds.
But on the flip side, like my default is not
to shelter them, Like I don't know that I can
explain all the deep nuances, but like, at very least
make the statement I don't need to like spend a
lot of time make the same mining go anyhow, So
I got in this discussion with her and her one
friend who goes to church was talking to her. Jesus Oh,
I was so traumatized as a kid by those videos
that they would show in church. I got, oh, yeah,
what videos? She goes veggietails. Veggietails was too was it
was too much, it was too intense. And I was like,
you've got to be kidding me. Veggietails veggietails is too
intense for you. And so like I was, I was
like losing it. I'm like this is crazy. Like if
if the standard is like, oh, you know, I don't
know if we can show the Veggie Tails Jonah movie
because it's it's a little it's a little you know,
it's a little too much kids. Like I don't know
what to tell you, Like I don't think we can
teach the Bible to anybody under eighteen, you know what
I mean? Like this is getting this, this, this is
getting absolutely ridiculous at some point in time, Like here's
the Word of God, here's the text. You gotta interact
with it, Like these are these are truths. I don't
know who told you that the most ethical thing that
you can possibly do is avoid any type of controversy
and violent and anything else. But that's our history, right,
Like I don't think you need to like zoom in
all the time, but come on, you know, ve details.
If that details doesn't make the cut, I am in trouble,
you know what I mean. That's why I said, I said, Okay,
stop getting mad at me for writing crypti books because
you hate vegetails. So like I mean, like, yes, I'm
well went by, like I cannot, I cannot hit your
standardly sorry.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, like I said of me that that's why
we're so ignorant, man, because we were told to be
the salt of the earth, not the sugar. Well, we're
supposed to preserve things and give it some flavor, you know,
We're not to sugar coat everything and avoid all the
weird and strange stuff, you know. And I stole that
from Coach Dave from Salt and Light Brigade.
Speaker 4: So there you go.
Speaker 1: I'll give credit where credit is due. We're meant to
be the salt, not the sugar of the earth.
Speaker 3: Yeah. I like it. I like it. That's good.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Well, David Man, I appreciate you coming on again.
Speaker 3: Man.
Speaker 1: I always have a good time hanging out with you.
It refreshes me. Dude, you fill my cup. So I
hope we can have some more conversations and it's for
some more some more wood boogers or something, just to
get you back on and have some more conversations.
Speaker 3: Man, that'd be awesome. I've got some really cool artwork
that I'm working. I can't talk about it right now,
but with a I think that you'll love it. It's
right down your alley, like literally, it's built for you.
So when I started doing some of that, and you'll
see it'll be really really cool.
Speaker 4: So I think, well, yeah, dude, I'm excited.
Speaker 1: Well, man, before we go, just in case somebody come
in midstream or wasn't paying attention at the front, man,
let us know where we can uh find your books,
find your your badass T shirts and work.
Speaker 4: Can they best support you?
Speaker 3: Man? Kryptin Evmpire dot so, cryptid Empire dot com. You
can buy the books, you can buy the t shirts. Amazon,
you can buy the books, so you can buy them
on Amazon. And especially if you live in you know,
Europe or somewhere where I don't ship to, you know,
you know, yeah, look at it Cryptimpire dot com. I
got it all up there, awesome cool stuff. I got
big projects, huge things that are coming in the pipe,
you know. But I'm on Instagram, I'm on Facebook, and
I will be on YouTube. So that's happening. But crypted
mbire dot com go there, buy the stuff. You're gonna
love it. If you like Kryptis at all. These are
I mean, listen, these are some of the best books
out there. You're gonna love it.
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, man, I love them anyway.
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm just sorry if you look at some
of these images of some of these shirts stuff and
you don't like them, you just got really crappy taste.
Speaker 4: I'll just go ahead and say it.
Speaker 1: But man, guys, hope you enjoined that episode because I
I enjoy them thoroughly.
Speaker 4: So if you don't, too bad, because I'm gonna keep
having David back.
Speaker 1: I love talking with David. But guys, if you did, hey, man,
go support this brother. Go to this website, check out
his stuff and get you a badass T shirt and
support us.
Speaker 4: And what we do. That way we can keep doing it. Man.
Speaker 1: But just remember, guys, hey, the difference between the known
and the unknown. That is the journey, my friends. So hey,
good journey, guys.
Speaker 3: So we steal the fire. I'm bad.
Speaker 1: Ones still frozen by the last.
Speaker 3: Around they content. Thank you