WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.720 --> 00:00:03.919 Of course, our supermarket has a cheesemonger. Our cells the 2 00:00:03.919 --> 00:00:06.040 milk of nineteen different mammals. 3 00:00:06.080 --> 00:00:08.599 What does yours of an entire aisle dedicated to venison. 4 00:00:08.400 --> 00:00:10.919 Feel my curtains? Guess where they're from. Our supermarket has 5 00:00:10.919 --> 00:00:11.800 a granola launch. 6 00:00:11.880 --> 00:00:13.640 Ours has a sorbe. 7 00:00:13.279 --> 00:00:15.000 Chainer, Molly and salt library. 8 00:00:15.080 --> 00:00:16.399 We're having our honeymoon in ours. 9 00:00:16.519 --> 00:00:20.320 Have another FEELI b my curtains. Oh, has your supermarket 10 00:00:20.320 --> 00:00:21.120 got notions? 11 00:00:21.640 --> 00:00:24.519 If so, switch to Aldi, where you'll get all the 12 00:00:24.600 --> 00:00:27.199 quality with none of the madness the prices. 13 00:00:27.239 --> 00:00:28.640 You'll love Aldi. 14 00:00:28.960 --> 00:00:31.600 It's not complicated. Oh hey, it's the lady that hosts 15 00:00:31.600 --> 00:00:33.799 that podcast, and let's go. Let's get right in. You 16 00:00:33.799 --> 00:00:36.359 don't need me talking about talking about Cape Beras. Okay, 17 00:00:36.479 --> 00:00:39.320 So we're going to chat with the associate professor of biology, 18 00:00:39.479 --> 00:00:44.439 the only North American expert in these furry, gorgeous charmers, 19 00:00:44.600 --> 00:00:49.159 so capybas side note, there are those snubnosed the bricks 20 00:00:49.560 --> 00:00:53.079 of relaxation, these creatures that just are chilling. You may 21 00:00:53.119 --> 00:00:55.240 have seen them in video footage. Maybe they got a 22 00:00:55.240 --> 00:00:57.880 bird on their head. Maybe you watched it on a 23 00:00:57.920 --> 00:01:00.359 loop to help you forget about your divorce for a 24 00:01:00.359 --> 00:01:03.679 few moments. Everyone loves a capit bear. So this expert 25 00:01:03.679 --> 00:01:06.680 did her undergrad at Kent State University in zoology. It 26 00:01:06.719 --> 00:01:09.200 got a PhD in biology at the University of Missouri 27 00:01:09.200 --> 00:01:11.799 Saint Louis and has collaborated with the folks who wrote 28 00:01:11.840 --> 00:01:16.560 the actual textbook on this exceptional neotropical species as they call. 29 00:01:16.799 --> 00:01:18.280 So we're going to chat in a sec But first, 30 00:01:18.319 --> 00:01:21.359 thank you to everyone who supports this show on Patreon 31 00:01:21.480 --> 00:01:24.519 for a dollar a month at patreon dot com slash ologies. 32 00:01:24.640 --> 00:01:27.280 You can wear our shirts and hats and socks via 33 00:01:27.359 --> 00:01:31.239 ologiesmerch dot com. We also have free, shorter and g 34 00:01:31.400 --> 00:01:33.719 rated cuts of our episodes. Those are up at alley 35 00:01:33.760 --> 00:01:36.319 one dot com slash asmologies. 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Okay. 55 00:02:29.039 --> 00:02:33.520 Hydro Coroology derives from this animal's scientific name, which in 56 00:02:33.639 --> 00:02:37.400 Greek means pig of the water. Okay, So draw yourself 57 00:02:37.439 --> 00:02:40.439 a bath, put a piece of fruit on your head, 58 00:02:40.639 --> 00:02:43.599 and let's get ready for a weird feet square faces, 59 00:02:43.680 --> 00:02:49.039 inner species, snorgling, Capibera, cafes, spa days, natural habitats, escaped 60 00:02:49.280 --> 00:02:54.319 Capyberra and rodents of unusual size of fossil record that 61 00:02:54.439 --> 00:03:00.319 will rock you What the Pope thinks of them? Capumera, songs, books, movies, 62 00:03:00.479 --> 00:03:04.199 and so much more with Zoologist Associate Professor of Biology, 63 00:03:04.680 --> 00:03:11.120 Absolute Capeberra expert and thus, hydro coroologist, doctor Elizabeth Beth Conden, 64 00:03:29.599 --> 00:03:31.639 you know how exciting this is? This is what you 65 00:03:31.759 --> 00:03:32.919 do for a job. 66 00:03:33.479 --> 00:03:36.360 Well it is, I mean, and it's so funny because 67 00:03:36.360 --> 00:03:38.520 I'm like, oh, what talk about capyberras for an hour? 68 00:03:38.919 --> 00:03:41.439 Yeah, not a problem. 69 00:03:41.719 --> 00:03:47.400 I love it. I love it, Okay, Elizabeth Conden, she 70 00:03:47.599 --> 00:03:52.000 her and I am at Bethune Cookman University and I'm 71 00:03:52.039 --> 00:03:53.719 associate professor of biology. 72 00:03:53.879 --> 00:04:00.919 Amazing. Okay, first question, hydro choreoologist? Does that? Is that a? 73 00:04:01.240 --> 00:04:02.199 Is that a word? 74 00:04:02.680 --> 00:04:06.520 Well? No, but but I think it. I think it 75 00:04:06.560 --> 00:04:13.240 should be quite frankly, so yeah, I'm with it. Hydrocarologists yeah, okay. 76 00:04:13.240 --> 00:04:16.560 And capyberra capybara? How is it said? 77 00:04:16.920 --> 00:04:21.399 So in English capi bera, But of course they don't 78 00:04:21.480 --> 00:04:26.560 occur in any English speaking countries, so capybara or in 79 00:04:26.680 --> 00:04:33.319 Brazil capibara, in Peru, bron soco, in Venezuela, tiguire. So 80 00:04:33.639 --> 00:04:36.480 they go buy a lot of different names. But in 81 00:04:37.120 --> 00:04:43.680 the native Venezuelan language, capebrera translates to master of the grasses. 82 00:04:46.199 --> 00:04:48.279 How cool is that? That's so great? 83 00:04:48.759 --> 00:04:53.759 I love that there are mammals who are less adept 84 00:04:53.879 --> 00:04:55.120 at grasses. 85 00:04:55.600 --> 00:04:58.000 There's a hierarchy like I'm really good at grass. 86 00:04:58.920 --> 00:05:02.000 Yeah, the grass really well, just have pioneered the art 87 00:05:02.040 --> 00:05:05.720 of grass. Now, how big are they because so many 88 00:05:05.839 --> 00:05:09.279 of us have seen videos but not necessarily with a 89 00:05:09.360 --> 00:05:12.800 person like how like dog size casts eyes. 90 00:05:13.120 --> 00:05:16.360 At more dog large dog? Oh, and they vary a 91 00:05:16.399 --> 00:05:18.600 little bit so in the north they're a little bit smaller, 92 00:05:18.959 --> 00:05:20.879 but a little bit smaller is still like fifty to 93 00:05:20.959 --> 00:05:22.720 fifty five kilograms. 94 00:05:22.360 --> 00:05:26.720 American translation, over one hundred and twenty pounds, as much 95 00:05:26.800 --> 00:05:27.680 as a Great Dane. 96 00:05:28.240 --> 00:05:32.079 In Brazil, where they're protected, they actually grow up to 97 00:05:32.279 --> 00:05:35.600 seventy five kilograms, which is close to one hundred and 98 00:05:35.639 --> 00:05:40.800 fifty pounds. No, yeah, no huge. Now they're chunky, so 99 00:05:40.879 --> 00:05:43.759 they're shaped kind of like a pig or the way 100 00:05:43.839 --> 00:05:45.600 I think of them is they have the body of 101 00:05:45.639 --> 00:05:51.600 a pigmy hippo what And so they're solid, right, and 102 00:05:51.720 --> 00:05:53.639 this would be you know, in the rainy season when 103 00:05:53.680 --> 00:05:55.600 there's plenty of grass to eat. Yeah, they're solid little 104 00:05:55.600 --> 00:05:59.040 buggers and standing next to one, it's gonna come up 105 00:05:59.279 --> 00:06:02.120 at least to your if not a little taller. There 106 00:06:02.160 --> 00:06:04.839 are some pictures out there because people do have the misspets. 107 00:06:05.240 --> 00:06:07.920 I don't know why more on the feasibility of all 108 00:06:07.959 --> 00:06:11.040 of your hopes and dreams. In a bit, I can't 109 00:06:11.920 --> 00:06:14.639 believe it. I thought they were maybe the size of 110 00:06:14.720 --> 00:06:16.279 like a French bulldog. 111 00:06:16.480 --> 00:06:20.360 One hundred Oh no, yeah, it's crazy, I know. So 112 00:06:20.800 --> 00:06:25.720 they are literally the largest rodent species in the world, 113 00:06:26.560 --> 00:06:28.959 and the second largest is the beaver. 114 00:06:29.399 --> 00:06:30.079 Nice beaver. 115 00:06:30.560 --> 00:06:34.199 Oh wow, and yet the beaver is like less than 116 00:06:34.240 --> 00:06:34.839 half their size. 117 00:06:35.480 --> 00:06:38.040 Is a beaver a rodent? Yes, okay, a beaver is 118 00:06:38.079 --> 00:06:39.920 a rodent. We haven't done a beaver episode. So this 119 00:06:40.079 --> 00:06:42.720 is also I suppose news to me. I got a 120 00:06:42.759 --> 00:06:45.680 guy in Montana for castrology. Just too wait, but yeah, 121 00:06:45.759 --> 00:06:46.160 keep going. 122 00:06:46.519 --> 00:06:49.319 So basically, what makes adent a rodent is that their 123 00:06:49.439 --> 00:06:54.279 incisors continue to grow, so their two front teeth are 124 00:06:54.439 --> 00:06:57.199 super sharp, and that helps them like cut through the grass, 125 00:06:57.319 --> 00:06:58.959 right if you think about trying to eat a piece 126 00:06:58.959 --> 00:07:01.279 of celery and it's all stringy. So they have super 127 00:07:01.319 --> 00:07:03.000 sharp teeth so that they can just cut right through 128 00:07:03.040 --> 00:07:06.680 the grass, you know, without having the stringy problem. And 129 00:07:07.079 --> 00:07:09.759 they need to gnaw on something like if you've ever 130 00:07:09.800 --> 00:07:12.600 had a pet, guinea pig, gerbal hamster, they gnaw on 131 00:07:12.759 --> 00:07:15.079 wood in their cage and stuff like that. That helps 132 00:07:15.399 --> 00:07:18.800 wear down the teeth and keep them sharp, because otherwise 133 00:07:18.839 --> 00:07:21.560 they'll just keep growing and they can be really dangerous 134 00:07:21.639 --> 00:07:24.839 if they grow, like down into their chin essentially. So yeah, 135 00:07:24.879 --> 00:07:26.319 that's that's a rodent. 136 00:07:26.399 --> 00:07:29.040 And if you're thirsty for more information, you can head 137 00:07:29.079 --> 00:07:32.439 to the Sewers for our urban rodentology episode with the 138 00:07:32.680 --> 00:07:36.879 endearing and lovable New York City rat expert doctor Bobby Corrigan, 139 00:07:37.240 --> 00:07:40.600 an episode during which I cry about rats in a 140 00:07:40.680 --> 00:07:44.240 good way. But back to South America, and is grass 141 00:07:44.639 --> 00:07:48.000 enough to keep their teeth sharp and worn down? Or 142 00:07:48.040 --> 00:07:50.480 are they out there eating all kinds of stuff. 143 00:07:50.319 --> 00:07:54.199 They'll gnaw on wood occasion just to keep their teeth 144 00:07:54.240 --> 00:07:57.680 worn down, but typically when they're you know, munching on 145 00:07:57.759 --> 00:08:01.000 the grasses and a few other plants, that keeps their 146 00:08:01.079 --> 00:08:02.319 teeth worn down as well. 147 00:08:03.079 --> 00:08:03.920 What are their teeth like? 148 00:08:04.040 --> 00:08:04.079 Like? 149 00:08:04.160 --> 00:08:06.480 How big are their teeth? I imagine you've probably gotten 150 00:08:06.560 --> 00:08:09.079 up close much more than anyone else I'm ever going 151 00:08:09.120 --> 00:08:09.399 to eat. 152 00:08:09.560 --> 00:08:12.759 Yeah, actually I have a couple because I've saved them 153 00:08:12.759 --> 00:08:15.879 because of course I did their top teeth, I mean, 154 00:08:15.879 --> 00:08:18.519 their curb. But they're like good four inches. 155 00:08:18.360 --> 00:08:21.160 That rustled around her desk for one that she had 156 00:08:21.199 --> 00:08:24.480 on hand, like other people might have an eraser or 157 00:08:24.639 --> 00:08:25.199 hand lotion. 158 00:08:26.079 --> 00:08:28.839 Good three and a half three and a half inches 159 00:08:29.120 --> 00:08:32.399 anyway on a full grown Yeah, and the bottom ones 160 00:08:32.399 --> 00:08:36.879 are a little bit smaller. In Venezuela, they are. They 161 00:08:37.080 --> 00:08:38.080 taste really good. 162 00:08:39.440 --> 00:08:41.759 No, I was wondering about that if people eat them. 163 00:08:42.000 --> 00:08:45.679 They do so, being that they eat primarily grass, they 164 00:08:45.840 --> 00:08:49.879 taste like cow, except you know, if you think they're 165 00:08:50.440 --> 00:08:53.240 entirely grass fed, So they're like a really good grass 166 00:08:53.480 --> 00:08:58.120 fed beef. And so in Venezuela they're harvested right before 167 00:08:58.639 --> 00:09:03.159 Lent every year, and with a managed harvest, a census 168 00:09:03.279 --> 00:09:06.240 is taken and then ranchers will get permits to take 169 00:09:06.279 --> 00:09:10.080 twenty percent of their population. And I worked on a 170 00:09:10.200 --> 00:09:16.480 ranch that participated in that, and so every spring, basically 171 00:09:16.600 --> 00:09:20.559 I could take my pick of capybary teeth, among other things. 172 00:09:20.879 --> 00:09:24.360 It was the less glamorous part of the research. But 173 00:09:25.000 --> 00:09:28.399 they've actually become a bit of a traditional meal during 174 00:09:28.519 --> 00:09:33.720 lent because they are semi aquatic. And so in seventeen 175 00:09:33.879 --> 00:09:37.679 eighty four the Pope declared them fish to fish. 176 00:09:38.039 --> 00:09:45.200 That's so bonkers. Why do they even have cabibers in Italy? 177 00:09:45.399 --> 00:09:47.200 What did the Pope have to do with any of this? 178 00:09:47.519 --> 00:09:52.519 No other than them, Well, they wanted to convert Venezuelans 179 00:09:52.600 --> 00:10:00.120 to Christianity Catholicism. But Venezuelans really liked their meat. And 180 00:10:00.440 --> 00:10:02.759 when they explore, you know, I can't remember the name 181 00:10:02.919 --> 00:10:06.679 of the individual, but sent back a description of capi 182 00:10:06.759 --> 00:10:10.799 beer's to the Pope, describe them as you know, being 183 00:10:10.840 --> 00:10:14.360 in the water. And so the Pope said, well, all right, 184 00:10:14.399 --> 00:10:17.440 let's call them fish. And so they eat during Lent. 185 00:10:17.960 --> 00:10:23.120 The Venezuelans will not eat other meats, but they eat 186 00:10:23.159 --> 00:10:23.600 capy beer. 187 00:10:25.360 --> 00:10:27.080 Is it beefy or is it piggy? 188 00:10:27.879 --> 00:10:30.440 It's it's beefy. It tastes like cow wow. 189 00:10:31.279 --> 00:10:36.200 And this is absolutely bonkers to me. But I ask 190 00:10:36.279 --> 00:10:39.720 so many questions. Are there enough to eat them? Or 191 00:10:39.799 --> 00:10:41.200 are they pretty endangered? 192 00:10:41.480 --> 00:10:45.039 So it really depends on where you are. Brazil, they're protected, 193 00:10:45.240 --> 00:10:48.000 so it's illegal to kill them in Brazil. So they're 194 00:10:48.080 --> 00:10:51.200 almost a nuisance if you think about in the United States, 195 00:10:51.279 --> 00:10:53.919 some of the places where the deer get overpopulated and 196 00:10:54.039 --> 00:10:57.399 become a nuisance to people's guarden, you know, get into 197 00:10:57.399 --> 00:11:00.440 people's gardens and things like that. In Brazil, the capub 198 00:11:00.440 --> 00:11:03.320 beerreras start getting into people's crops and things because there 199 00:11:03.320 --> 00:11:07.919 are so many of them. But in Venezuela, where of course, 200 00:11:07.960 --> 00:11:15.159 the economy is struggling and so people are somewhat desperate 201 00:11:15.320 --> 00:11:21.039 for adequate food and in particular meat, outside of protected areas, 202 00:11:21.120 --> 00:11:24.919 you really don't see any capubreras. They're in ranches, private 203 00:11:25.039 --> 00:11:29.720 cattle ranches, or in protected areas, and they're actually worth 204 00:11:29.919 --> 00:11:33.799 more perkilo. The meat costs more per kilo than beef does, 205 00:11:34.279 --> 00:11:36.960 so there's incentive for the ranchers to protect them. So 206 00:11:37.039 --> 00:11:40.159 when they're protecting their cows from poachers, they're also protecting 207 00:11:40.200 --> 00:11:40.879 the capu beras. 208 00:11:41.720 --> 00:11:45.159 And are they managed like in corrals. 209 00:11:46.080 --> 00:11:49.840 No, they're territorial, so they're not really trying to go anywhere. 210 00:11:50.600 --> 00:11:50.799 Now. 211 00:11:51.320 --> 00:11:55.240 My dissertation research was looking at their movement patterns and 212 00:11:55.559 --> 00:11:59.600 natal dispersal. When the young ones mature, do they stay 213 00:12:00.039 --> 00:12:02.159 it's there with the social group they were born in, 214 00:12:02.399 --> 00:12:06.320 or do they leave? And what I found, for the 215 00:12:06.440 --> 00:12:11.679 most part, the females will stay with their natal social group, 216 00:12:12.120 --> 00:12:16.240 but the males will leave and find another group. And 217 00:12:16.399 --> 00:12:20.919 so occasionally you'll see a lone male wandering out just 218 00:12:21.200 --> 00:12:25.759 in the in the savannah. Hello ladies. But they become 219 00:12:25.840 --> 00:12:29.240 lunch pretty quick, and for the most part they're going 220 00:12:29.320 --> 00:12:32.399 to stick because these cattle ranches are just huge, and 221 00:12:32.559 --> 00:12:35.639 so they just wander to another group a little bit 222 00:12:36.200 --> 00:12:39.960 across the grassland. And what we don't know is how 223 00:12:40.440 --> 00:12:44.240 a cape bera sort of sidles up to an established 224 00:12:44.240 --> 00:12:47.159 group of capy beras and introduces himself. That's what I 225 00:12:47.240 --> 00:12:50.639 wanted to do for my next study. Honestly, you would. 226 00:12:50.440 --> 00:12:53.759 Have to be out in kind of the wilds where 227 00:12:53.840 --> 00:12:56.600 they're doing their thing in these long ranges, right, would 228 00:12:56.639 --> 00:12:59.080 you have to really be like traveling that. 229 00:12:59.639 --> 00:13:02.120 Yes. So for my dissertation work, I lived on a 230 00:13:02.159 --> 00:13:07.559 cattle ranch in ato El Sdral, which is in Apota State, Venezuela, 231 00:13:07.639 --> 00:13:08.960 and I lived there on and off for about two 232 00:13:09.000 --> 00:13:12.200 and a half years. Oh my god. There's also an 233 00:13:12.320 --> 00:13:15.639 eco lodge on the ranch, and so they had infrastructure, 234 00:13:15.840 --> 00:13:19.080 a translator while I was still learning my Spanish and things, 235 00:13:19.200 --> 00:13:21.559 and they had a kitchen there that I could use 236 00:13:21.679 --> 00:13:23.519 and things like that, and they had an extra cabin 237 00:13:23.600 --> 00:13:25.879 that they let me stay in free of charge while 238 00:13:25.879 --> 00:13:26.639 I did my research. 239 00:13:27.759 --> 00:13:31.039 So getting to your history, I want to know how 240 00:13:31.360 --> 00:13:34.639 someone becomes essentially the North American expert on this. 241 00:13:35.360 --> 00:13:39.799 When I was in school for my masters, I studied 242 00:13:39.840 --> 00:13:44.759 primates in Venezuela and I was just absolutely became enamored, 243 00:13:44.960 --> 00:13:50.519 just enthralled with tropical forests, with conservation, seeing animals in 244 00:13:50.600 --> 00:13:55.519 the wild. I was just hooked. And so for my PhD, 245 00:13:56.000 --> 00:13:58.200 I wanted to do something in the tropics, but I 246 00:13:58.320 --> 00:14:00.879 didn't want to stick with primate because I did not 247 00:14:01.039 --> 00:14:04.039 want to be a primatologist. Not that there's anything wrong 248 00:14:04.080 --> 00:14:07.919 with being a primatologist, but many primatologists are in anthropology departments, 249 00:14:09.000 --> 00:14:13.000 and I wanted to be in an ecology department. I 250 00:14:13.080 --> 00:14:17.279 wanted to have a broader focus. And so I happened 251 00:14:17.320 --> 00:14:19.440 to be at the University of Missouri Saint Louis and 252 00:14:19.600 --> 00:14:22.720 my major advisor, her name is Zulema te Martinez. She 253 00:14:22.840 --> 00:14:27.200 is Venezuelan, has lived in the US for over forty years. 254 00:14:27.639 --> 00:14:32.600 But she had a colleague, Emilio Herrera, who was at 255 00:14:32.720 --> 00:14:38.960 the University Simon and Belivar in Venezuela, and so she said, 256 00:14:39.000 --> 00:14:43.159 you know, my friend Emilio is looking for someone to 257 00:14:43.240 --> 00:14:45.840 do field work for capybars because he wants to be 258 00:14:45.919 --> 00:14:49.799 in the lab more. Oh, And I said, well, I 259 00:14:50.519 --> 00:14:52.080 don't like being in the lab. I want to be 260 00:14:52.120 --> 00:14:56.879 in the field. And so Emilio and I teamed up 261 00:14:57.200 --> 00:15:00.679 and I went down and met him and saw the 262 00:15:01.159 --> 00:15:03.320 ranch and everything, and we established a collaboration. 263 00:15:04.360 --> 00:15:06.879 Had you done a lot of traveling before that in 264 00:15:06.960 --> 00:15:10.000 your life and were you familiar with the work of 265 00:15:10.559 --> 00:15:13.200 doing a dissertation or a PhD? What was your background like? 266 00:15:13.639 --> 00:15:16.240 So I started out pre vet as a lot of 267 00:15:16.320 --> 00:15:20.039 people do. Right when you love animals and you're good 268 00:15:20.080 --> 00:15:23.320 in science, it's like, oh, well, go pre vet. So 269 00:15:23.559 --> 00:15:26.000 I started out that way. But then I worked at 270 00:15:26.000 --> 00:15:34.200 a small animal practice throughout undergrad and realized that veterinarians 271 00:15:34.240 --> 00:15:37.639 spend so much time talking to people about their pets, 272 00:15:38.480 --> 00:15:41.440 and I don't want to talk to people. I shouldn't 273 00:15:41.440 --> 00:15:43.960 say that as I'm talking to people, but I mean, 274 00:15:44.080 --> 00:15:46.200 my name was. I wanted to work with an animal. 275 00:15:46.279 --> 00:15:48.799 I wanted to be more directly involved with the animals 276 00:15:48.840 --> 00:15:55.159 more than the and I found it so heart wrenching 277 00:15:55.600 --> 00:15:58.159 when you had an animal that was ill and it 278 00:15:58.279 --> 00:16:00.879 was because the owner wouldn't take care of it. 279 00:16:01.320 --> 00:16:04.360 And of course there are cases of animal neglect just 280 00:16:04.440 --> 00:16:07.679 straight up, but they're also financial and mental health factors. 281 00:16:07.720 --> 00:16:10.720 And if you're considering giving an animal a good home 282 00:16:10.799 --> 00:16:13.840 and you can afford that time, and the vetcare shelters 283 00:16:13.840 --> 00:16:18.159 are overrun with owner surrenders right now post lockdown, So 284 00:16:18.639 --> 00:16:21.919 you deserve unconditional love from a hairy baby and those 285 00:16:22.039 --> 00:16:23.639 critters to serve a safe home. 286 00:16:24.159 --> 00:16:27.600 I just that's not something I wanted to deal with 287 00:16:27.919 --> 00:16:32.000 for my job. So I started exploring other possibilities, and 288 00:16:32.159 --> 00:16:35.399 so I got an internship volunteering at the Cleveland Zoo. 289 00:16:36.159 --> 00:16:38.799 And this was back in I'm going to age myself 290 00:16:38.960 --> 00:16:43.840 the mid mid nineties, and it was when the Cleveland 291 00:16:43.960 --> 00:16:48.759 Zoo first established a research office and hired their first 292 00:16:48.960 --> 00:16:52.720 research coordinator, and so I was like among the first 293 00:16:52.840 --> 00:16:57.759 cohort of volunteers to collect behavioral data with the animals 294 00:16:57.840 --> 00:17:01.120 instead of cleaning up poop, which is what you usually 295 00:17:01.200 --> 00:17:03.039 have to do when you get started. 296 00:17:03.399 --> 00:17:06.440 Yes, we have a poop episode. It's called Scatology with 297 00:17:06.599 --> 00:17:10.319 a zoo pooh biologist. And yes, if you can volunteer 298 00:17:10.480 --> 00:17:13.319 anywhere that you love being, it could really change everything. 299 00:17:13.440 --> 00:17:15.680 I did a field trip episode about the natural history 300 00:17:15.759 --> 00:17:18.480 Museum of la There would be no ologies without that 301 00:17:18.599 --> 00:17:21.839 time of my life. And unfortunately volunteer positions don't pay, 302 00:17:22.119 --> 00:17:24.599 and a lot of internships don't either, so it's really 303 00:17:24.640 --> 00:17:27.119 a privilege to afford the time. But if you can 304 00:17:27.359 --> 00:17:29.319 give even a few hours a week, I've found it 305 00:17:29.440 --> 00:17:32.799 was worth every second to lift my spirits and help 306 00:17:32.920 --> 00:17:35.839 narrow down what you love well hopefully helping some people too. 307 00:17:36.240 --> 00:17:38.519 So I went into it thinking I wanted to be 308 00:17:38.920 --> 00:17:41.440 like a zoo keeper and go into animal care, and 309 00:17:41.599 --> 00:17:45.519 that was my first assignment, was to do behavioral observations 310 00:17:45.680 --> 00:17:49.279 of Chilean flamingos and I just fell in love with 311 00:17:49.359 --> 00:17:53.880 the process, everything from creating the data sheets, collecting the data, 312 00:17:54.000 --> 00:17:56.720 figuring out how to analyze it. And that's a whole 313 00:17:57.119 --> 00:17:59.079 other podcast about the flamingos. 314 00:17:59.359 --> 00:18:02.000 Speaking though, of birds and the bees, I. 315 00:18:02.000 --> 00:18:05.119 Want to know how Capyberra's date. You know, you grow up, 316 00:18:05.160 --> 00:18:06.720 you leave home, How do you find a new group? 317 00:18:06.759 --> 00:18:09.440 How do you introduce yourself if you're a Capi beerra 318 00:18:09.680 --> 00:18:10.680 Hi the hi Hello? 319 00:18:11.039 --> 00:18:13.359 Where do they originate from? 320 00:18:14.039 --> 00:18:16.200 And what is like? 321 00:18:16.319 --> 00:18:20.359 Geographically? Where are they and how long have they been there? 322 00:18:20.759 --> 00:18:24.359 So basically they are from the Panama Canal all the 323 00:18:24.400 --> 00:18:29.359 way down to northern Argentina. So they're just in Latin America. 324 00:18:29.920 --> 00:18:33.920 There are no natural populations in North America or in Africa. 325 00:18:34.559 --> 00:18:38.119 And I believe there was a fossil, like a six 326 00:18:38.359 --> 00:18:39.880 hundred pound fossil. 327 00:18:40.240 --> 00:18:42.759 Okay, so about twenty five years ago the skeleton of 328 00:18:42.799 --> 00:18:48.519 a six hundred ish pound rodent named Phoberamus petersone was found. 329 00:18:48.759 --> 00:18:51.920 But then in two thousand and eight, a bigger extinct 330 00:18:52.000 --> 00:18:56.519 rodent emerged on the fossil scene, the Josepho Artigasia monissen, 331 00:18:56.640 --> 00:19:00.720 which may have weighed in at one thousand kill or 332 00:19:00.960 --> 00:19:05.759 twenty two hundred pounds. Here you are, you're going about 333 00:19:05.759 --> 00:19:08.559 your life. You're deciding what burrito bowl to order for 334 00:19:08.720 --> 00:19:13.519 lunch on a planet that once had rodents weighing more 335 00:19:13.839 --> 00:19:16.759 than a Ford Fiesta. Good luck going back to your 336 00:19:16.799 --> 00:19:19.119 old life after this episode. It's never going to happen. 337 00:19:19.839 --> 00:19:24.440 How did they get so big? Well, the way I. 338 00:19:24.480 --> 00:19:26.319 Think about it is not so much how did they 339 00:19:26.400 --> 00:19:30.240 get so big? But how did they survive being that big? 340 00:19:30.880 --> 00:19:31.079 Yeah? 341 00:19:31.400 --> 00:19:34.799 Right, So if you think bigger more babies, capy bears 342 00:19:34.880 --> 00:19:38.559 do have more offspring then would be expected from an 343 00:19:38.559 --> 00:19:41.519 animal their size or from another mammal. Right, so they 344 00:19:41.559 --> 00:19:44.960 average about four offspring per litter, but they can have 345 00:19:45.519 --> 00:19:49.240 eight nine. I saw one with ten, but that was 346 00:19:49.400 --> 00:19:53.160 a rare, rare event. Bigger animal, more offspring, more offspring, 347 00:19:53.359 --> 00:19:55.759 more of them in the next generation. And then it 348 00:19:55.960 --> 00:20:00.720 just is sort of a forward loop. Where in Africa 349 00:20:00.880 --> 00:20:04.119 you have a lot of different grazers, a lot of 350 00:20:04.200 --> 00:20:08.440 different grass feeders and browsers and things. But in Latin 351 00:20:08.480 --> 00:20:14.680 America you have deer and cappy bears, oh not much else. Oh, 352 00:20:15.000 --> 00:20:17.440 they are the master of the grass. Yeah, I was 353 00:20:17.480 --> 00:20:21.160 gonna say they just once they found their niche, they 354 00:20:21.200 --> 00:20:22.440 were like, cool, this is ours. 355 00:20:23.759 --> 00:20:26.480 The deer can't compete with them. Maybe, Well, the. 356 00:20:26.559 --> 00:20:29.400 Deer tend to be browsers, so they're eating like the 357 00:20:29.559 --> 00:20:33.119 lower on the lower branches of trees and leaves off 358 00:20:33.200 --> 00:20:35.880 of floor things and in the brush, whereas the capy 359 00:20:35.960 --> 00:20:39.079 bearers are the grass. They're eating slightly different foods in 360 00:20:39.240 --> 00:20:40.720 terms of the species that they eat. 361 00:20:41.359 --> 00:20:44.759 Speaking of other species, are they okay with other animals? 362 00:20:44.880 --> 00:20:46.960 Do they have natural predators? Why do we see so 363 00:20:47.039 --> 00:20:49.319 many videos where they got monkeys on their heads or 364 00:20:49.319 --> 00:20:52.160 they're chilling with crocs, or they're like raising kittens. 365 00:20:52.440 --> 00:20:56.319 With I know, so I think, really it's they're super chill. 366 00:20:56.519 --> 00:20:59.720 So I was just watching a clip of them in 367 00:21:00.079 --> 00:21:04.480 the movie and Kanto. They're completely nonchalant like whatever. The 368 00:21:04.559 --> 00:21:06.200 way I think of them in the field too is 369 00:21:06.279 --> 00:21:08.519 give me a patch of grass, I'm good, don't bother me, 370 00:21:08.680 --> 00:21:11.680 leave me alone. And so now, of course in the 371 00:21:11.799 --> 00:21:14.480 zoos they've got monkeys crawling around on their backs and everything. 372 00:21:14.559 --> 00:21:17.119 But also in the wild I have seen them where 373 00:21:17.759 --> 00:21:19.680 they are in the water, and there's a turtle that 374 00:21:19.759 --> 00:21:22.039 crawls up on the back and basks on the back 375 00:21:22.079 --> 00:21:25.759 of the cape barrel like it's a log iguanas birds 376 00:21:26.559 --> 00:21:29.200 just riding around on their back while they're swimming around. 377 00:21:29.799 --> 00:21:34.519 And there are caman in the same habitat. And also 378 00:21:35.200 --> 00:21:39.920 the particular ranch I worked at had introduced ornocle crocodiles 379 00:21:39.960 --> 00:21:42.759 because they are endangered. And I have a photograph of 380 00:21:42.839 --> 00:21:45.279 capyberra's sleeping right next to the orinocle croc. 381 00:21:45.559 --> 00:21:46.759 Why don't they attack each other? 382 00:21:47.680 --> 00:21:51.480 Well, I mean I can't ask the crocodile, of course, 383 00:21:51.720 --> 00:21:55.200 but it would appear that if crocodile's not hungry, there's 384 00:21:55.279 --> 00:21:58.440 plenty of fish. Crocodiles eating fish just to ps. 385 00:21:58.599 --> 00:22:01.880 Ornico crocs are native to the Ornico River in Venezuela, 386 00:22:02.319 --> 00:22:07.640 and are these critically endangered long snooted water beasts. They 387 00:22:07.720 --> 00:22:10.720 pretty much only eat fish, and they're not hunting capit 388 00:22:10.799 --> 00:22:13.480 beras because very few of these crocodiles are catholic. 389 00:22:14.000 --> 00:22:20.279 But back to your question of their natural predators jaguars, Oh, anacondas, Ah, yeah, 390 00:22:20.359 --> 00:22:24.240 there are big anacondas, and so a big anaconda can 391 00:22:24.319 --> 00:22:26.240 wrap around and take an adult capyberra. 392 00:22:27.119 --> 00:22:29.480 What and a person too? 393 00:22:29.680 --> 00:22:33.480 Yeah? Well, yeah, that's a whole that's a whole movie 394 00:22:33.559 --> 00:22:34.839 genre into itself. 395 00:22:34.559 --> 00:22:38.400 Of course, right, and condas are a perfect curing wash. 396 00:22:38.920 --> 00:22:41.559 And then the baby capy beras are snacks for just 397 00:22:41.599 --> 00:22:44.200 about anything. Baby capy beras about the size of an 398 00:22:44.240 --> 00:22:49.319 adult guinea pig. Baby. Yeah, and they are most closely 399 00:22:49.400 --> 00:22:52.160 related to guinea pigs, so if you think about like 400 00:22:52.200 --> 00:22:54.119 the shape of their head and stuff, they're kind of 401 00:22:54.200 --> 00:22:55.599